Author Topic: Afordable ergonomic keyboards (with vertical staggering and thumb keys)  (Read 6384 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rsac

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 47
Hello,

I will do my first post here starting with a tl;dr telling my background and what I looked so far:

Years ago, I heard about Maltron and Kinesis keyboards, and found their matrix design briliant. I touch type since I was a kid, and the key stagering reminescent of mechanical typerwriters makes no sense and enrage me everytime I think about it (fortunatedly, I seldom do it  ;)), and I really wanted some extra thumb keys to offload my overworked pinkies. The shift key on ISO keyboards is specially painfull.

However, they were waaay too expensive for me, and there was no other thing similar at the time (the typematrix seems very unergonomic for me, and I was unaware of the, also expensive, japanese TRON keyboards). My afordable dream keybard at that time was the Microsoft Natural 4000, but I would have to import it and never did. I had then, and still have, a Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000, and it is a nice keyboard as far as the traditional layout and ruber dome swiches go. I've never typed on a mechanical keyboard, but it seems the rule for those advanced ergonomic keyboards and any custom made keyboard.

Fast foward to last year, I saw a review about TEK on anandtech, and it seemed almost my perfect keyboard, but alas, it was also as expensive as the Kinesis Advantage. My budget for keyboards has risen, but I still don't want to pay $250+ (plus shipping and taxes) for a keyboard. Latter I heard about the problematic debouncing and lost all the desire to buy it.

And then I discoverd the world of the DIY keyboards, fist from Ergodox. I was disapointed because it ALSO was around $250, plus I would have to solder those tiny diodes. But the layout and programability attracted me and I started looking around at why it was that price.

It seems that while I can lower some costs, the cost will end up proportional to the number of keys. The Oobly custom keyboard is very interesting, but seems dificult to make the "case" with the required tenting and all, and there is no keyplate design because the way it was made, etc. Then I took interest for the Atreus. A kit for the Technomancy's  Atreus is only $150. The single board design seems to be the simplest and cheapest to make a handwired version of, and the TEK has shown it is sufficiently ergonomic as you can adjust the wrist separation by putting it nearer or farther away from your body. However I'm afraid it has too little keys for me and I would regret buying it. I want a keyboard for my daily use, not for ocasional trips.

Finally, I saw the Keyboardio and Axios, that have been promising croudfunded initial runs "soon"(TM). But the keyboardio guy explictly avoided talking about price, saying simply that it won't be cheap, but that it won't be more than a Kinesis... that don't sound very apealing to me. I haven't find a price estimate for the Axios keyboard, but given that it is similar to Ergodox, but with a more complex layout and even more keys than Ergodox, I guess it won't be any cheaper...


So, what is my best bet for a ergonomic keyboard like those I listed, costing not more than about $150?

- I don't require a number row, as I usually type numbers in my numpad, and a FN layer numpad on non-stagered layout will probably make me happy.
- But I do want dedicated arrow keys for editing, spreadsheets, casual flash gaming, etc.
- I want to ofload my pinkies, but I think that once the ctrl, shift backspace, etc, are on the thumbs, I can still make use of a column of rarer keys next to it.

From what I saw, my ideal keyboard don't really exists... I'm wiling to handwire and solder my keyboard if I can make something solid and durable that way. A PCB with through the hole soldering would surelly be nicer though, even if a bit more expensive than wire. If I go that way, I will probably base my design on the Atreus, but with about 10 more keys...

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Afordable ergonomic keyboards (with vertical staggering and thumb keys)
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 01:27:39 »
What you need is https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62848

(ignore the legends)
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 March 2015, 01:29:39 by jacobolus »

Offline Oobly

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Finland
Re: Afordable ergonomic keyboards (with vertical staggering and thumb keys)
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 02:37:56 »
Sigh.. I have to finalise my next prototype ASAP (using a laser cut and heat bent acrylic plate) and start to get my board into a production phase. I think there may be enough interest to do a limited production run.

In the meantime, I would suggest you take another look at the Atreus. You can program layer combinations (like Fn+Shift) which gives you more characters / functions with less keys so you don't have to move your hands / twist your wrists as much and I think it's a great design (although I think some keys are in hard to reach spots, like Tab, Super, - and '). Also fully programmable, it's available with MX Clears and 10% of the proceeds go to a good cause.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline vvp

  • Posts: 886
Re: Afordable ergonomic keyboards (with vertical staggering and thumb keys)
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 05:22:45 »
If you have access to a Reprap 3d-printer and can do some soldering then this would fit your budget:
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/katy-keyboard-or-k80cs-key80-contoured-split-t8524.html#p195210

If you do not have access to a Reprap and are fine with layering then I would say Oobly's design with a flat thumb cluster and without the four black keys would be the cheapest option. And very ergonomic. And hardly attractive to wider audience due to all the layering :) Jacobolus' design without the top row would look a bit better (and bit more expensive).

Offline davkol

  •  Post Editing Timeout
  • Posts: 4994
Re: Afordable ergonomic keyboards (with vertical staggering and thumb keys)
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 11 March 2015, 17:18:10 »
Tipro daisy chain

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: Afordable ergonomic keyboards (with vertical staggering and thumb keys)
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 13 March 2015, 07:05:43 »
If you buy and assemble the Atreus, but do not like it, remember, you can always sell it.  I would hope that buyers would be willing to pay at least the cost of an unassembled kit, but a little labor cost for your time.

When it comes to thinking a keyboard is too small for your needs, I have discovered that when you start pushing the limits of what you think is acceptable, you discover that maybe you never really needed all those keys in the first place.

But I must admit, a couple more thumb keys might be appreciated with the Atreus.
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 March 2015, 07:07:23 by prdlm2009 »
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline rsac

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 47
Re: Afordable ergonomic keyboards (with vertical staggering and thumb keys)
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 26 April 2015, 13:39:17 »
Thanks for the answers. Sorry for the late reply. At least now I'm not behind captchas anymore.

I'm slowly buying the parts I need to do this, but it will probably take a long time for all them to be here.

@vvp: I don't have a 3D printer, and it looks like it will be easier to do laser cut acrylic or wood locally for the case. But your base design is very interesting. How usable are just the switch plates you use for testing? The hand rests seems to be the most expensive part for 3D printing, and they are the least benefited by it.

@jacobolus: Yeah, you are right, I need that! Your design looks nearly perfect for a flat board. I only miss some arrows in the main layer, but that is not a showstopper.

About Atreus, I really wanted more keys, especially well positioned thumb keys (well, it has 500% more thumb keys than my keyboard, but still). Looking how I type I discovered I use more keys than I previously thought. That and the default minimum orders for switches and keycaps (most cheap keysets are 104 key anyway) makes cheaping out on the number of keys not that appealing for building only one keyboard. In the end, the keyboard on jacobolus image seems to have the perfect number of keys for a programmable keyboard (except maybe 3 more on each side for arrows and symmetry).

While it is true that I can sell it if I don't like it, it is a chore, and I would still be losing on shipping and possible customs fees anyway, so it would not be that cheap to try it out. But still, it is a very nice minimalistic design.

Offline vvp

  • Posts: 886
Re: Afordable ergonomic keyboards (with vertical staggering and thumb keys)
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 26 April 2015, 16:56:18 »
How usable are just the switch plates you use for testing?
I did not try to use only the plate for a fully functional keyboard. One can make some kind of maybe a wooden case around it and wire it to a a controller. But it looks like a lot of work.

Offline metalliqaz

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4951
  • Location: the Making Stuff subforum
  • Leopold fanboy
Re: Afordable ergonomic keyboards (with vertical staggering and thumb keys)
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 26 April 2015, 17:03:21 »
Seems you could have just bought an ergodox a long time ago and been up and running.  If you're looking for a custom, you're not going to get much cheaper or easier.