GMK recent light leak problem - Answer: It's the materials used, NOT thickness

[Lastpilot]

It seems that the last few GMK sets I've bought are more translucent than the sets produced in early/mid 2013. It has also been reported that vintage cherry keys do not allow light to leak through.

What could be the cause of this recent change?

Update: Hoff just posted. Variation in materials (ABS) is likely the cause.
Update: Nubbs has measured caps, and TA is actually thicker than older caps.


2013 Olivetti vs. 2015 Triumph Adler





2015 CMYW
2014 GMK Windowed Cap (win)

VS

2013 Olivetti (alt)
2013 Blue GMK from EliteKeyboards (shift)

[Zeal]

Interesting theory, however I can play devil's advocate and say look at GMK Charred Orange. The orange is translucent, and it's even apparent in the doubleshot molding.

Do you think it could also be using a more translucent white instead of a denser, more opaque white?

[radio_killah]

All I have are GMK sets, and while most of them are excellent quality, from what I have seen from the recent sets their quality does seem like it is going down... The hype just isn't there anymore it seems.. I mean I could see them getting a little lazy because of all the action they have seen from the mechanical keyboard community this year. They have been probably contacted every week by a new person requesting mock ups for future sets... Maybe it's going to their head?

Edit: Actually Lastpilot, from your photo comparisons, you can actually see that the Olivetti double shot for the legends is so much cleaner than the ones on the TA set.. It is not a small difference...

[MiTo]

Theory: I think that this is related to GMK lowering their MOQ to 250 in late 2013. In order to justify new costs concerning smaller batches, they started calibrating factory machines to use less material or perhaps a different/cheaper/less dense ABS.

What do you think?

These new photos you provided are pretty conclusive, at leat to me, that the most recent keycaps they make do not feature dense plastic like before. It almost looks like they ran out of plastic in the machine and just went with leftovers. Look how sturdy those Olivetti keys are in comparison to Adler, they just can't be the same thick plastic.

EDIT: Radio, check this picture below and you can clearly see that the legends are indeed much worse in the Adler keyset when compared to Olivetti.

pic from /u/JustDownloadMoreRAM - original thread here

[radio_killah]

Theory: I think that this is related to GMK lowering their MOQ to 250 in late 2013. In order to justify new costs concerning smaller batches, they started calibrating factory machines to use less material or perhaps a different/cheaper/less dense ABS.

What do you think?

These new photos you provided are pretty conclusive, at leat to me, that the most recent keycaps they make do not feature dense plastic like before. It almost looks like they ran out of plastic in the machine and just went with leftovers. Look how sturdy those Olivetti keys are in comparison to Adler, they just can't be the same thick plastic.

EDIT: Radio, check this picture below and you can clearly see that the legends are indeed much worse in the Adler keyset when compared to Olivetti.

Show Image

pic from /u/JustDownloadMoreRAM - original thread here

The legends look hand drawn on there. They look blurry and smushed together.. It's awful.

[Jokrik]

This has also been my concern, I owned a couple of GMK new set and from old cherry
The classic beige set from Originative doesn't seem to have the problem but than the one from elitekeyboards was worse


Lightsaver v2 Night + Caps by Hanshen, on Flickr

See that WASD set from EK and the rest is from old cherry board  (modifier is SP)

[Lastpilot]

Interesting theory, however I can play devil's advocate and say look at GMK Charred Orange. The orange is translucent, and it's even apparent in the doubleshot molding.

Do you think it could also be using a more translucent white instead of a denser, more opaque white?

Ooooooh okay. I wasn't aware of that; many of the charred orange pictures I've seen have not had light leak through the legends. Do you have a backlight picture that shows it?

I also understand that charred orange was re-made once or twice since first introduced, so its also possible that batches of the same set could had differences between each other.

As far as different whites go, I think that is possible. I don't have enough knowledge about plastics to make any conjectures, so I'm hoping this thread reaches someone who might. :]

I also think if I could get a hold of a 2015 olivetti and compare it to my 2013 set we could find something out about their differences.

All I have are GMK sets, and while most of them are excellent quality, from what I have seen from the recent sets their quality does seem like it is going down... The hype just isn't there anymore it seems.. I mean I could see them getting a little lazy because of all the action they have seen from the mechanical keyboard community this year. They have been probably contacted every week by a new person requesting mock ups for future sets... Maybe it's going to their head?

Edit: Actually Lastpilot, from your photo comparisons, you can actually see that the Olivetti double shot for the legends is so much cleaner than the ones on the TA set.. It is not a small difference...

I definitely think that it is related to the recent demand of products. It's possible that they've had to purchase new equipment and haven't properly calibrated them or that they've had to switch materials because of this new demand.

Also, we have to think about it from their point of view. They are working on a new product to satisfy their newfound popularity "GMK Uniqey." It's possible that they could introduce different "grades" of keysets to cater to small batches to make "3 million possible color combinations" happen for everyday consumers.

They also announced that we would be able to choose materials, so that makes me suspect an intentional shift in quality vs demand even more.

Link: https://www.keychatter.com/2015/03/10/gmk-uniqey-coming-soon-finally-a-chance-to-get-one-off-doubleshot-keysets/

These new photos you provided are pretty conclusive, at least to me, that the most recent keycaps they make do not feature dense plastic like before. It almost looks like they ran out of plastic in the machine and just went with leftovers. Look how sturdy those Olivetti keys are in comparison to Adler, they just can't be the same thick plastic.

EDIT: Radio, check this picture below and you can clearly see that the legends are indeed much worse in the Adler keyset when compared to Olivetti.

Show Image

pic from /u/JustDownloadMoreRAM - original thread here

Yeah, I saw that thread. TA is an interesting case because in the past GB's with Geekhack GMK has always been able to work at their own pace and announce delays. It's true that TA did not deliver on time and suffered a delay with the group buy (even though some of this was client-side color picking etc.) However, I am guessing that they had some kind of hard deadline when signing a deal with Massdrop and were forced to make something new without enough schedule flexibility, thus possibly skipping a few QC procedures in order to satisfy said contract.

[Joey Quinn]

All I have are GMK sets, and while most of them are excellent quality, from what I have seen from the recent sets their quality does seem like it is going down... The hype just isn't there anymore it seems.. I mean I could see them getting a little lazy because of all the action they have seen from the mechanical keyboard community this year. They have been probably contacted every week by a new person requesting mock ups for future sets... Maybe it's going to their head?

Edit: Actually Lastpilot, from your photo comparisons, you can actually see that the Olivetti double shot for the legends is so much cleaner than the ones on the TA set.. It is not a small difference...

I noticed that, the legends on my TA set are all fuzzy. The lines on my dyesub sets are much sharper.

[byker]

Here are some pics of the charred orange from Karura, that he posted in the GMK Skidata IC

Alright, time for some Keyboard Science! 

Here we have:
1x Poker2 with bright white LEDs on the WASD cluster, Esc, and Spacebar.
1x WASD from OG Skidata
1x WASD from Charred Orange

With the naked eye, Charred Orange is very slightly more translucent and darker, but it is difficult to capture with my phone camera.

Show Image

Lights offs, LEDs on, Charred Orange:

Show Image

Now, with OG Skidata:

Show Image

As we can observe, it appears that all doubleshot keycaps are at risk of bleeding light, but in the case of Charred Orange, it seems to be bleeding a lot more.

I have also ran this test with the following: (Due to the difficulty of photography, I did not take photos of these).
EK Red WASD
Ivan GMK Dolch WASD

Results were similar to the OG Skidata, where you will see a little light around the stem area, but nothing drastic like Charred Orange.

Conclusion: Originative's Charred Orange is a flawed set. Something must have gone wrong during the double shot process.

[osi]

I don't believe my set from Ivan's dolch group buy had any issues with clarity and/or light leaking and these were ran in 2014.

[Lastpilot]

Here are some pics of the charred orange from Karura, that he posted in the GMK Skidata IC

Alright, time for some Keyboard Science! 

Here we have:
1x Poker2 with bright white LEDs on the WASD cluster, Esc, and Spacebar.
1x WASD from OG Skidata
1x WASD from Charred Orange

With the naked eye, Charred Orange is very slightly more translucent and darker, but it is difficult to capture with my phone camera.

Show Image

Lights offs, LEDs on, Charred Orange:

Show Image

Now, with OG Skidata:

Show Image

As we can observe, it appears that all doubleshot keycaps are at risk of bleeding light, but in the case of Charred Orange, it seems to be bleeding a lot more.

I have also ran this test with the following: (Due to the difficulty of photography, I did not take photos of these).
EK Red WASD
Ivan GMK Dolch WASD

Results were similar to the OG Skidata, where you will see a little light around the stem area, but nothing drastic like Charred Orange.

Conclusion: Originative's Charred Orange is a flawed set. Something must have gone wrong during the double shot process.

Oh man, yeah that's a perfect example! Man...makes me want to hunt down more OG sets.

I don't believe my set from Ivan's dolch group buy had any issues with clarity and/or light leaking and these were ran in 2014.

Yeah, I'm not too sure now about the MOQ theory since charred orange happened before the new 250 MOQ. But it's still apparent that there was a change somewhere with old versus new keycaps. :-\

I'm glad dolch is holding up strong though!

[jbondeson]

Do you think it could also be using a more translucent white instead of a denser, more opaque white?

This seems like the most likely scenario. It also explains why darker caps like dolch and the base alpha color of charred orange don't leak light, but lighter colors do.

I would be interested to see what GMK would say when this is pointed out to them.

[Lastpilot]

Do you think it could also be using a more translucent white instead of a denser, more opaque white?

This seems like the most likely scenario. It also explains why darker caps like dolch and the base alpha color of charred orange don't leak light, but lighter colors do.

I would be interested to see what GMK would say when this is pointed out to them.

I'm not sure how ABS colors are made, but I'm guessing due to the "swirl" problem in TA, that they mix dyes to make a certain color? So they probably used a white to make the orange in the charred orange set? That would make a lot of sense.

[Zeal]

Do you think it could also be using a more translucent white instead of a denser, more opaque white?

This seems like the most likely scenario. It also explains why darker caps like dolch and the base alpha color of charred orange don't leak light, but lighter colors do.

I would be interested to see what GMK would say when this is pointed out to them.

I'm not sure how ABS colors are made, but I'm guessing due to the "swirl" problem in TA, that they mix dyes to make a certain color? So they probably used a white to make the orange in the charred orange set? That would make a lot of sense.

ABS gets ordered in coloured pellets, and is then injected through a nozzle.



That said, the most recent GMK Dolch also has some defects, along with 2015 Ollivetti as well. I'll grab some pictures once my macro arrives...in a few hours.

[Lastpilot]

That said, the most recent GMK Dolch also has some defects, along with 2015 Ollivetti as well. I'll grab some pictures once my macro arrives...in a few hours.

#getting****done #detectivezeal #lensesareforkeycaps

[jerue]

Radio, check this picture below and you can clearly see that the legends are indeed much worse in the Adler keyset when compared to Olivetti.

Show Image

pic from /u/JustDownloadMoreRAM - original thread here

The thread seems to be gone for some reason. But if I received a legend like that, I'd be upset to no end. All of these complaints about GMK recently make me a bit nervous about the IC's I've participated in. Never had a set, but I almost don't want to bother until I see more sets after TA that fix these issues.

[trizkut]

Radio, check this picture below and you can clearly see that the legends are indeed much worse in the Adler keyset when compared to Olivetti.

Show Image

pic from /u/JustDownloadMoreRAM - original thread

The thread seems to be gone for some reason. But if I received a legend like that, I'd be upset to no end. All of these complaints about GMK recently make me a bit nervous about the IC's I've participated in. Never had a set, but I almost don't want to bother until I see more sets after TA that fix these issues.

The url was mal-formed
here you go

[Karura]

I'd say that as a community, we must notify GMK of our concerns, as I will be doing for the SKIDATA+ group buy.

Why is it a major concern to us and the community?

The reason is because these keycaps are premium products that should not have such flaws, and the intended usage of these include putting them over LED backlit switches, so GMK should understand why it is important to maintain QC up to the standards of the previous sets. I hope my concerns won't fall on deaf ears. Would appreciate if more people brought it up with GMK if they are planning to do any sort of purchases from them.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Zeal]

I purchased the Chinese olivetti keycap set a while ago, upon unboxing it, I found that my M key had a line across the legend. My heart sank, and I put the caps back into its original box....Until today, where I took a macro shot of it...



I couldn't believe my eyes when I pulled up the pic on my computer!!

Unfortunately, my $4 key still has black plastic stuck inside of it. T_T

[alienman82]

removed.

[Fnzzy]

This is all very sad to hear. My only GMK caps are the Dolch set and CMYW. I noticed that the CMYW has light leaks and was a bit disappointed already. What makes it worse is that there is an IC for Cyrilic alphas made by GMK but it looks like I won't be getting this unless those quality issues get resolved. Looks like I have to buy a more expensive BSP set.

That said, my original Cherry keyset that I am currently using on my Viper with blue LEDs doesn't show any sign of light leaks. Only the recent CMYW from GMK which I am using on the same board have this issue.

[KHAANNN]

One of my CMYW Shifts have molding discoloration, likely from not cleaning the nozzle or whatever well, but compared to your issues, it's nothing

I also noticed that the N9 of the N9+cyan keys of Ivan's color pack doesn't match the N9 of other keys - which is concerning, it's almost like another color code

Additionally, I've also noticed the legend imperfections too, some legends have waves/imperfections on them, I add it to the character of the keys

About the TA issues, it's probably 10% GMK quality drop and 90% the Massdrop curse - there is some serious bad voodoo encircling anything massdrop related - stay away if you can

[GenKaan]

Interesting, havent jumped on any of the sets but this is definitely something to look out for. Seen a lot of damaged caps show up on reddit, think there could be an quality issue :/

[KHAANNN]

Interesting, havent jumped on any of the sets but this is definitely something to look out for. Seen a lot of damaged caps show up on reddit, think there could be an quality issue :/

It's entirely MassDrop, after 10's of f'ups like these, they still make sloppy shipments and they will probably continue doing so - all those efforts, hopes wasted because a company just can't learn from it's mistakes

I bought a set of TA modifiers, I was intending to buy another set of modifiers, however there is a high probability of getting damaged keys like these and having to deal with massdrop again, so I'm staying away, If I was aware of these issues, I would probably avoid buying the first set, on the bright-side It's from a fellow GH user, so I hope/trust the set is one of the lucky ones

[turboloser]

It's weird, I have never had a real issue with Mass Drop's shipping beyond them putting the tiniest of items inside of much larger packages for some reason; which just feels wasteful but nothing has ever been damaged.

I've used them a lot for things other than keysets/keyboards, so that's where most of my experience with them comes from. But I had no issue with the last four items I've received, including that switch tester from CM not too long ago and my CST trackball I received two days back. I guess I'll just have to see what shape my GMK modifiers, Varmilo keyboard, and the SciFi (in three-ish months, lol) set I just ordered arrive at my home in.

I am still going to use them in a few days when Carbon pops up because, well, Carbon.

It does worry me though that the premier company that most enthusiasts seem to love is doing something out of the norm.

Is this a case of them repeatedly running out of stock because of too many orders? Simply wanting or having to lower QC standards in order to meet increased orders or faster turn around? You know it could be so many different things, but I think laying the blame for the product's shoddy quality on the decision of the middleman to deliver the packages in a less than stellar way is simply ignoring the real issue.

[E3E]

I'd be pretty happy if some BSP group buys start happening out of distaste with GMK, since I do love me some PBT. That'd mean I'd have to stock up on space bars though, unfortunately.

Hopefully GMK rectifies the quality issues they've been having lately though.

[Nai_Calus]

Screw light leaks, TA turned out bad in general.

Even without backlighting, bleedthrough of the inner plastic layer for the legends is unacceptable. Wavy legends are unacceptable. Dirt is unacceptable. This is the company everyone raves about? I've seen better looking SP sets and people like to complain about SP.

I'm certainly not ordering any more GMK sets, since from toss thread it looks like there are issues beyond just the sloppy job on TA. You get one chance with me. This was it. It's not even 'Oh, this headset stopped holding a charge after a month and disconnects constantly' like I had with the one Logitech product I bought. This was never usable from the moment it came off the assembly line.

It's like if everyone I know raves about a restaurant, and I go there and the food is expensive, cooked badly, and brought  a waiter with bad service. I don't care how many good meals you've had there, I'm not eating there again.

GMK absolutely needs to get their act together from the looks of things, but I'm afraid even if they do it's too late for me with them.

[ShardZer0]

Screw light leaks, TA turned out bad in general.

Even without backlighting, bleedthrough of the inner plastic layer for the legends is unacceptable. Wavy legends are unacceptable. Dirt is unacceptable. This is the company everyone raves about? I've seen better looking SP sets and people like to complain about SP.

I'm certainly not ordering any more GMK sets, since from toss thread it looks like there are issues beyond just the sloppy job on TA. You get one chance with me. This was it. It's not even 'Oh, this headset stopped holding a charge after a month and disconnects constantly' like I had with the one Logitech product I bought. This was never usable from the moment it came off the assembly line.

It's like if everyone I know raves about a restaurant, and I go there and the food is expensive, cooked badly, and brought  a waiter with bad service. I don't care how many good meals you've had there, I'm not eating there again.

GMK absolutely needs to get their act together from the looks of things, but I'm afraid even if they do it's too late for me with them.

[KHAANNN]

Screw light leaks, TA turned out bad in general.

Even without backlighting, bleedthrough of the inner plastic layer for the legends is unacceptable. Wavy legends are unacceptable. Dirt is unacceptable. This is the company everyone raves about? I've seen better looking SP sets and people like to complain about SP.

I'm certainly not ordering any more GMK sets, since from toss thread it looks like there are issues beyond just the sloppy job on TA. You get one chance with me. This was it. It's not even 'Oh, this headset stopped holding a charge after a month and disconnects constantly' like I had with the one Logitech product I bought. This was never usable from the moment it came off the assembly line.

It's like if everyone I know raves about a restaurant, and I go there and the food is expensive, cooked badly, and brought  a waiter with bad service. I don't care how many good meals you've had there, I'm not eating there again.

GMK absolutely needs to get their act together from the looks of things, but I'm afraid even if they do it's too late for me with them.

The way I see it, the sad truth is there is not a single keyset or manufacturer out there that is *"perfect"* - so you just have to decide on what you are willing to let go off

It's like you are extremely hungry, you have to eat, but you can't prepare food yourself, and the 4-5 restaurants that are available all have issues of their own, in this scenario GMK over-cooked the meal once, while SP can't get proportions right and over-cooks/under-cooks randomly, there is also very ****ty fast-food's like Vortex and stuff, there is WASD Keyboards that can prepare whatever you want, but their dishes are all very watery, and stuff ...

(I will buy some of your GMK TA Modifiers if you are selling them btw, just saying)

[MiTo]

It's like you are extremely hungry, you have to eat, but you can't prepare food yourself, and the 4-5 restaurants that are available all have issues of their own, in this scenario GMK over-cooked the meal once, while SP can't get proportions right and over-cooks/under-cooks randomly, there is also very ****ty fast-food's like Vortex and stuff, there is WASD Keyboards that can prepare whatever you want, but their dishes are all very watery, and stuff ...

(I will buy some of your GMK TA Modifiers if you are selling them btw, just saying)

You nailed it.

[Nai_Calus]

Show Image

Yes, and? You'd be salty if you got something people had raved to the moon and back was the highest quality of anything ever that you paid a lot of money for(I don't care if $100 isn't a lot to you, it is to me) and waited months on, and not only was it scratched from bad shipping, it had tilted, wavy sloppy legends everywhere and places where the inner plastic was showing through the outer plastic.

The way I see it, the sad truth is there is not a single keyset or manufacturer out there that is *"perfect"* - so you just have to decide on what you are willing to let go off

It's like you are extremely hungry, you have to eat, but you can't prepare food yourself, and the 4-5 restaurants that are available all have issues of their own, in this scenario GMK over-cooked the meal once, while SP can't get proportions right and over-cooks/under-cooks randomly, there is also very ****ty fast-food's like Vortex and stuff, there is WASD Keyboards that can prepare whatever you want, but their dishes are all very watery, and stuff ...

(I will buy some of your GMK TA Modifiers if you are selling them btw, just saying)

No one is perfect. However I expect much higher quality from this than, say, your 'very ****ty fast food' example of Vortex. I've got two Vortex PBT doubleshot sets, one in WoB and one white with blue legends. They're both great. Legends are straighter and crisper than what's on TA, the PBT feels really nice, I've used the white/blue set over low intensity backlighting without any bleed. I'm not ashamed to put them on boards. TA with the wobbly legends and screwed up NumPad + key I'd be ashamed to put on a board even if it had no scratches.

In this case, the '****ty fast food' is higher quality than the gourmet restaurant. (Also, if you literally cannot prepare any kind of food, you're either totally disabled with no use of your hands, in the hospital, or homeless with no access to so much as a water source and a microwave, and probably aren't going to a restaurant to begin with. :P Even when I was homeless living in my car I was able to go to the grocery store and get things to prepare at work in the microwave there.)

Has GMK delivered quality in the past? Probably, from the way people rave about it. Will they in the future? Possibly. Will I risk money on this? No not really, I'm more likely to go get another set of Vortex. It's cheap, I've had good results, and even if it does have an issue, I'm more willing to forgive issues in a mass-produced 30 buck keyset than I am in a small run 100 buck keyset.

I get it. Everyone loves GMK. Expressing a negative opinion of them is GH social suicide, as much as people seem to be pissed at me and arguing with that I shouldn't be unhappy with them. Fine. I'll go away for a few days and just ignore the threads on the subject.

[nubbinator]

And I have a Vortex set that looks like absolute ****.  The legends, while done alright, look like a hot mess and are a hodge podge of retarded.  I have several SP sets, each of which looks good, but feels absolutely terrible to type on.  I have a Tai Hao set that has some wonky legends, but doesn't feel bad for how much it cost.  And I have several GMK sets that, even with some of the problems I've seen, still feel way better than Vortex, Tai Hao, and SP.  In the end, I'll keep going back to my TA typewriter dyesubs, my OG Cherry, and my GMK over anything else out there since it feels better and I feel like the quality is better even with some of the issues I've seen first hand.

The main problems with the buy are the retarded A profile bottom row (sorry intelli, that was a ****ty decision that ****ed over the majority of users) and the piss poor shipping that resulted in scratches.  The swirls in the caps are not noticeable in normal use, only when you look at them closely, the legend issues aren't noticeable unless you stare at them, the bleed through of the darker legend color isn't noticeable in normal use on most caps, and it seems like the dark spots aren't an issue for most people and are mostly on the sides of the caps.

I'm disappointed in this set and how it turned out, but you have some serious hyperbole going on like it's the end of the world and this is the ****tiest set ever made.


Back to the light bleed issue.  It seems like it mainly affects caps with lighter color plastics, which really isn't unexpected.

[KHAANNN]

I don't think anyone is pissed at you, on the contrary, you seem to be escalating things on your own

Instead of venting off on GH, vent off on Massdrop and never buy anything from them ever again

- I don't think keycaps have to be light-tight, if you want them to make light-tight, just fortify the keycaps yourself, it's doable, since you took my metaphor to the "you're disabled" level, you should be capable of doing it too, just paint underneath the keycap
- the legend imperfections are a shame, I would hope they would normalise a bit with wear (the overflows and waves)
- the scratches and damages are forever, so blame massdrop, speak against massdrop, but there is no point in starting a fight here :)

Once again, I can pay $50 for an undamaged/unused Backspace, just saying

[KHAANNN]

And I have a Vortex set that looks like absolute ****.  The legends, while done alright, look like a hot mess and are a hodge podge of retarded.  I have several SP sets, each of which looks good, but feels absolutely terrible to type on.  I have a Tai Hao set that has some wonky legends, but doesn't feel bad for how much it cost.  And I have several GMK sets that, even with some of the problems I've seen, still feel way better than Vortex, Tai Hao, and SP.  In the end, I'll keep going back to my TA typewriter dyesubs, my OG Cherry, and my GMK over anything else out there since it feels better and I feel like the quality is better even with some of the issues I've seen first hand.

The main problems with the buy are the retarded A profile bottom row (sorry intelli, that was a ****ty decision that ****ed over the majority of users) and the piss poor shipping that resulted in scratches.  The swirls in the caps are not noticeable in normal use, only when you look at them closely, the legend issues aren't noticeable unless you stare at them, the bleed through of the darker legend color isn't noticeable in normal use on most caps, and it seems like the dark spots aren't an issue for most people and are mostly on the sides of the caps.

I'm disappointed in this set and how it turned out, but you have some serious hyperbole going on like it's the end of the world and this is the ****tiest set ever made.


Back to the light bleed issue.  It seems like it mainly affects caps with lighter color plastics, which really isn't unexpected.

+1

I've seen more people displeased with intelli's selections

With him intending to run more sets, on a selfish level, I feel like serious GMK allocations will be wasted, there are almost no extra non-standard keycaps
It kind of feels like he has a layout that he uses and he's only interested in getting keycaps for that layout

I see a lot of HHKB layout users, I use the 1.75 Control myself, need 1.25 blanks, they are all missing at the GMK TA set - anyway, these are off topic and personal opinions

------

On an on topic level, I think pouring a layer of light-tight paint into the keycap might be a good idea for those who want their keycaps to be light-tight, that's what I would do

[rpeterclark]

Keycap quality issues aside, an el cheapo fix I have used before is to place a tiny square of aluminum foil tape on the top of the LED. Use real aluminium tape, not that dryer vent stuff. Only a super tiny square is needed per LED, you are just blocking the light emitting from the top. Works great and is easily reversible if not needed with a different set of keycaps.

[turboloser]

Keycap quality issues aside, an el cheapo fix I have used before is to place a tiny square of aluminum foil tape on the top of the LED. Use real aluminium tape, not that dryer vent stuff. Only a super tiny square is needed per LED, you are just blocking the light emitting from the top. Works great and is easily reversible if not needed with a different set of keycaps.

That's a handy tip. Thank you.

[turboloser]

+1

I've seen more people displeased with intelli's selections

With him intending to run more sets, on a selfish level, I feel like serious GMK allocations will be wasted, there are almost no extra non-standard keycaps
It kind of feels like he has a layout that he uses and he's only interested in getting keycaps for that layout

I see a lot of HHKB layout users, I use the 1.75 Control myself, need 1.25 blanks, they are all missing at the GMK TA set - anyway, these are off topic and personal opinions

------

On an on topic level, I think pouring a layer of light-tight paint into the keycap might be a good idea for those who want their keycaps to be light-tight, that's what I would do

Why not just run your own GB? This is not meant to sound antagonistic, I am genuinely curious.

[jbondeson]

[...]
I've seen more people displeased with intelli's selection
[...]

Ok, this is getting out of hand. I may not love the profile selections, but intelli was completely open about it. Some may have missed it, but it was in the mock ups for months prior to the GB, and was very prominent in the Massdrop page.

Frankly, he was crystal clear about his desire to make a replica set. Everyone told him it was impossible, and he made it the most successful GMK buy ever. It's not his fault GMK ****ed up production. It's not his fault Massdrop ****ed up shipping. He was the designer, and as a replica piece (his very, very explicit goal) it was great.

I know as a society we live to overreact, but not everyone has even received the set yet, so let's see how this shakes out before people lose their minds. But I suppose to be that may be too much to ask for some people.

[KHAANNN]

Why not just run your own GB? This is not meant to sound antagonistic, I am genuinely curious.

(off topic)

I previously considered running a mono-coloured matte-SA IC through SP's new system, called "Rock SA", a gray-colored set, simple because it has just one color and many extras to satisfy many people, but since I moved on from D/SA's, I left the idea behind too

At this point, If I was to run a GMK GB, it would be a GMK Dolch Add-on with rainbow coloured modifiers (basically a unique color for each modifier that I've been obsessed with lately) - and some edge keys that cater to edge needs, so it wouldn't be a full set, as I find the Dolch colorway pretty satisfying, the Dolch is the colorway to settle with IMO

But, I don't have time or energy to run a regular GB where you have to handle all the money and shipping, I also don't think my tastes are near-universal, for a GB to be successful, it has to gather a significant following at an affordable cost, I tend to keep the costs high (at 250 MOQ, a GMK GB is quite the challenge, best case scenario I would reach 50)

Comparatively Massdrop supercharges GB's into reality pretty quick, however, it obviously burns the engine too, almost everytime

Tho, If I was to run a GB, I would just adopt a proven keycap selection like one of Ivan's and only extend on that set (that's what I don't like about GMK TA, it's regressive, like I mentioned earlier it's just my opinion, don't take it too seriously)

What would be great is a MOQ of 1 with keysets, these selection related discussions would be over fast :)
(I rarely see SP one-offs, they just get what they want and not babble like this, like a boss, but with GMK, you would likely need to be a billionaire to do it with 250 MOQ)

[Lastpilot]

Please take group buy discussion elsewhere. This is a topic for discussing GMK manufacturing issues.

[Puddsy]

I'm seeing this issue with my TA set.

I'm VERY close to selling it. Extremely disappointed.

[hwood34]

rip GMK. the JTK reign shall begin shortly

[Coconut]

rip GMK. the JTK reign shall begin shortly

+1

[Air tree]

rip GMK. the JTK reign shall begin shortly

Help me JTK, you're my only hope.

[limitz]

The light leaks is the dealbreaker for me. I can deal with a bit of scratches, swirls, even wavy/malformed legends. I cannot deal with lightleak at all, especially since the keyboard I was originally building for the TA set, is a LSv2 and is fully backlit. To me, lightleaks indicate not enough material used for the doubleshot, and given the price of this set/GMK's reputation, that's really disappointing. It's a direct reflection of their cost cutting measures to make more money, and I do not believe it's b/c of TA's custom colors. CMYK uses existing colors, and has light bleed issues as well.

On a backlit keyboard, lightbleed looks like absolute ****, and due to this reason, this will be the last GMK set I buy. Unless they can demonstrate in future GB's that they are improving their QA, and restoring their key thickness, the current quality is simply not worth the price.

[wlhlm]

The light leaks is the dealbreaker for me. I can deal with a bit of scratches, swirls, even wavy/malformed legends. I cannot deal with lightleak at all, especially since the keyboard I was originally building for the TA set, is a LSv2 and is fully backlit. To me, lightleaks indicate not enough material used for the doubleshot, and given the price of this set/GMK's reputation, that's really disappointing. It's a direct reflection of their cost cutting measures to make more money, and I do not believe it's b/c of TA's custom colors. CMYK uses existing colors, and has light bleed issues as well.

On a backlit keyboard, lightbleed looks like absolute ****, and due to this reason, this will be the last GMK set I buy. Unless they can demonstrate in future GB's that they are improving their QA, and restoring their key thickness, the current quality is simply not worth the price.

The new GMK sets are not thinner, they use the same amount of material. I've compered TA with several Vintage Cherry sets, no difference in weight. The most likely reason is the material itself, which is less opaque.

[filphil]

The light leaks is the dealbreaker for me. I can deal with a bit of scratches, swirls, even wavy/malformed legends. I cannot deal with lightleak at all, especially since the keyboard I was originally building for the TA set, is a LSv2 and is fully backlit. To me, lightleaks indicate not enough material used for the doubleshot, and given the price of this set/GMK's reputation, that's really disappointing. It's a direct reflection of their cost cutting measures to make more money, and I do not believe it's b/c of TA's custom colors. CMYK uses existing colors, and has light bleed issues as well.

On a backlit keyboard, lightbleed looks like absolute ****, and due to this reason, this will be the last GMK set I buy. Unless they can demonstrate in future GB's that they are improving their QA, and restoring their key thickness, the current quality is simply not worth the price.

The new GMK sets are not thinner, they use the same amount of material. I've compered TA with several Vintage Cherry sets, no difference in weight. The most likely reason is the material itself, which is less opaque.

Hmm. I think I've read recently the cyan colors haven't been consistent between sets. I'll take a look at my ivan color pack and cmyw under back lighting to see if there's a difference.

[heedpantsnow]

I'm honestly surprised how many folks even use backlighting...

[nubbinator]

I'm honestly surprised how many folks even use backlighting...

I'm still amazed that people expect caps to have no bleed at all, especially with lighter color plastics.