[IC] DCS Alps Pingmaster (Closed; Fredington is creating new thread)

[bobgr8]

Recent GMK ABS spacebars are also warped, so be careful!

[dallman5]

Glad to see icon mods in the mix! Like others said, it might be nice to have alphas be separate from mods (i.e. alphas + jp mods + icon mods as separate kits). I know for SP SA and MX DCS kits this is common because of how their pricing works out but I’m less familiar with their DCS PBT Alps pricing structure.

[FRANCO]

Also, why not have alphas in the icon kit? or even have seperate alphas, If you want alphas then you've gotta have two sets of mods, and it'd be better to have two full usable sets.

Gotta say, I think it doesn't make sense to split iso unless you add considerably more keys to the set, such a small ISO kit may as well be rolled into the main one. Again, please make ISO icon mods possible, add an icon small shift!

Glad to see icon mods in the mix! Like others said, it might be nice to have alphas be separate from mods (i.e. alphas + jp mods + icon mods as separate kits). I know for SP SA and MX DCS kits this is common because of how their pricing works out but I’m less familiar with their DCS PBT Alps pricing structure.

I filled in the IC form, but I forgot to mention the following errors:

– All Enter legends seem to be spelling out "ESOTA–" instead of "ENTA–". It should be エンター, not エソター. The difference is subtle, but it's noticeable.

– Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alt should be アルト, not アールト.

I'm all for new Alps keysets, but I'm going to be honest, all these silly direct translations of modifiers are getting out of hand. Trendiness aside, if good Japanese legends are what you're after, I think it kinda makes more sense to use ai03's translations, wouldn't it?

Glad to see icon mods in the mix! Like others said, it might be nice to have alphas be separate from mods (i.e. alphas + jp mods + icon mods as separate kits). I know for SP SA and MX DCS kits this is common because of how their pricing works out but I’m less familiar with their DCS PBT Alps pricing structure.

We did consider breaking out alphas into its own kit with JP mods and Icon mods as separate kits. But after Fredington and I thought through it, we felt that perhaps we should have been a bit more faithful to the Pingmaster legends from the outset.

We understand that the Katakana mods weren't faithful to the Pingmaster, but it was strictly a design choice as we both liked the Katakana mods (still do), but definitely understand that the decision to go with katakana mods was basically taken from a sample size of two.

So in the next update, we will be staying as faithful as possible to the Pingmaster and doing a mixture of icon and Japanese text modifiers (i.e. we may not have a separate modifier kit). Also, in keeping with the approach of staying as faithful as possible, we will also be revising the Alpha legends themselves to be more in line with the Pingmaster's. Instead of having the Alphas top left, the Pingmaster actually has its alpha legends on the bottom left.

[keyboardkrill]

When you run this, I will join.

[platypusduck]

We understand that the Katakana mods weren't faithful to the Pingmaster, but it was strictly a design choice as we both liked the Katakana mods (still do), but definitely understand that the decision to go with katakana mods was basically taken from a sample size of two.

So in the next update, we will be staying as faithful as possible to the Pingmaster and doing a mixture of icon and Japanese text modifiers (i.e. we may not have a separate modifier kit). Also, in keeping with the approach of staying as faithful as possible, we will also be revising the Alpha legends themselves to be more in line with the Pingmaster's. Instead of having the Alphas top left, the Pingmaster actually has its alpha legends on the bottom left.

A respectable decision. The best that we can do is support your efforts to make this set as good as possible.

[it99]

I respect your decisions to be as close to the original source as possible, but I honestly like the legends right now. I feel like it will look odd for alphas to be in the bottom left on non hi-profile keys, and tbh I like the original legends you have made in Japanese, making a mix between the two to fit the icon legends of the pingmaster isn't the move in my opinion. It is your set, and you guys have the right to make the final decisions, but I just wanted to give my two cents as someone who decided to miss out on other sets for this who is kinda regretting it because they like how the design was originally and not with some of the proposed changes. I don't want to be rude at all and I completely respect your decisions, but again, just wanted to give my two cents. I mean, if you somehow got this done in SA or MT3, i'd be fine with the legends fitting the pingmaster more closely, but tbh if you are gonna do it in DCS I like it how you have made it so far.

[mode]

SP doesn't offer SA with alps stems, and I highly doubt whoever it is that manufactures MT3 would offer alps stems.

DCS, DSA and XDA and TaiHao OEM are the only profiles manufactured anymore that I'm aware of. XDA being the only thick offering.

[mcmaxmcmc]

I can't help but be ticked off by the upper left Latin legends.

I know you guys said that the Pingmaster was just an inspiration for this keyset, but I can't help but think that's just a facade to a normal JP Alps set.  I do notice the front lettering on the V, B and N keys which I do appreciate, but I would like at least a poll or something regarding where the Latin legends should be, as the originals have them on the bottom left corner.  It might look even nicer.  (Check out the Katakana-variant IBM 5556 Multistation keyboard

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-- that's what I'd imagine it to be similar to, though perhaps that may just be a far-fetched dream.)

Other people have said that they liked the legends being on the top left instead of the original bottom left, and I'm fine with it myself, but it just isn't very faithful to the original.

As for the modifiers, the JP Pingmaster has Kanji text for the mods but the Chinese variant does have some Icon mods for the Shift and Caps Lock key, which this set doesn't look familiar to.  What this looks familiar to is just the bog standard GMK icon mods, which leads me further into the facade theory.  I do see the Nav cluster though, and I do appreciate the difference there.  I'm not sure if that's for the better or worse, though, but I do appreciate the work.

And as for the errors, that has already been explained by another fellow:

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I filled in the IC form, but I forgot to mention the following errors:

– All Enter legends seem to be spelling out "ESOTA–" instead of "ENTA–". It should be エンター, not エソター. The difference is subtle, but it's noticeable.

– Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Alt should be アルト, not アールト.

I'm all for new Alps keysets, but I'm going to be honest, all these silly direct translations of modifiers are getting out of hand. Trendiness aside, if good Japanese legends are what you're after, I think it kinda makes more sense to use ai03's translations, wouldn't it?

Along with the caps having MX stabilizers, it is a very hard bite for me, unfortunately.  It's going to all depend on the pricing, which I frankly don't have much of a high hope for.  I most likely will not be getting this set, but I won't stop others from getting it or liking it.  I do welcome change, though, so perhaps this opinion of mine will be obsolete in the near future.

I really, really do appreciate you guys for bringing this IC upfront and am very glad that many people are interested, but as of right now this set ticks me off the wrong way.  Just my two cents.

[konstantin]

Your set's placement of the katakana sublegends appears to be based on Apple's variant of the ANSI JP layout, as seen on the AEK:



However, I think the standard ANSI JP layout that's used on Windows, Linux and other systems would be more appropriate. For one, it's closer to the JIS layout of the original Pingmaster; and also Pingmasters and AEK's don't really go in the same basket if you ask me. Here is the layout:



The differing keys are marked in green. I recommend changing the sublegends to match this layout.

Note also that the ヲ sublegend on the 0) key needs to be regular size, not small like the ャ, ュ, ョ etc. sublegends next to it. Also note the absence of ¥ symbols on any of the backslash keys. This is because having ¥ symbols there is incorrect/inaccurate (sets like MT3 Serika, which you may have used as a reference, got this wrong).

[konstantin]

On a related note, I also recommend changing the alpha keys in the ISO kit as follows:

• R3 \|ヘ¥ → \|ム
• R4 <>  → <>ロ

This will not only match the above standard ANSI JP layout, but will also allow your set to cover JIS keyboards. If you also add the following two keys to the ISO kit, your set will have complete JIS alpha coverage, matching that of the original Pingmaster:

• add R1 1u `~ー (alpha-colored)
• add R1 1u 半角 / 全角 or 半/全 (mod-colored)

See GMK Mecha-01's base kit for an example of these keys.

ISO

Show Image

Split out ISO into its own kit and included accents

Edit: Here is a KLE mockup of what I mean (additional Enter keys omitted):

[FRANCO]

Based on feedback, we separated the Alphas from the modifiers to give people a choice between Icon and Katakana mods

Also, we unfortunately had to remove the BAE =/

[mcmaxmcmc]

Man, I'm loving this set now.  Those alphas are looking good!

I also notice some corrections have been done to the JP Legends as well, which I do appreciate.  I still want the Katakana legends to be correct to the Windows standard though, as konstantin has pointed out

More

Your set's placement of the katakana sublegends appears to be based on Apple's variant of the ANSI JP layout, as seen on the AEK:

Show Image

However, I think the standard ANSI JP layout that's used on Windows, Linux and other systems would be more appropriate. For one, it's closer to the JIS layout of the original Pingmaster; and also Pingmasters and AEK's don't really go in the same basket if you ask me. Here is the layout:

Show Image

The differing keys are marked in green. I recommend changing the sublegends to match this layout.

Note also that the ヲ sublegend on the 0) key needs to be regular size, not small like the ャ, ュ, ョ etc. sublegends next to it. Also note the absence of ¥ symbols on any of the backslash keys. This is because having ¥ symbols there is incorrect/inaccurate (sets like MT3 Serika, which you may have used as a reference, got this wrong).

, just so it can be usable to the rare chance somebody actually uses the legends -- but I'm fine with whatever.

Also, for the numpad Enter key with the vertical legend, I believe the dash at the end of エンター is vertical because it's written vertically.  I could be wrong though, but I'm somewhat sure that this is the case.

Very nice! Loving these changes.

[remdell]

Wow! I'm glad others in the IC agreed on the alpha adjustment. This set looks so good with the latin alphas bottom left-aligned and the japanese sublegends at the bottom right. It's very faithful to the original.
While we get no more big ass enter, I appreciate the mod options given for this alps set.

One thing I would like to see added to the vintage set would be the outlined fat arrows on that were middle-aligned on the og pingmaster's shift keys, as well as the lock icon (middle-aligned) on the capslock key.

[dallman5]

These kits look great, thanks for being so receptive!

[joecoolbob]

Honestly, I'm not a fan of the Numpad enter key. I understand that you wanted to use 'エンター' vertically, but the last dash should be vertical, not horizontal.

Also, I might be wrong but the 'ン' in the Numpad enter is incorrect. Looking at your other legends you have 'エンター' correct, but the Numpad enter is 'エソター'.

edit: Same for the alpha set too. There is two 'ソ' keys instead of one 'ソ' and one 'ン'. Specifically the 'Y' and 'C' key. Japanese is such a weird language. If you need help lmk. I can help.

[FRANCO]

Your set's placement of the katakana sublegends appears to be based on Apple's variant of the ANSI JP layout, as seen on the AEK:

Show Image

However, I think the standard ANSI JP layout that's used on Windows, Linux and other systems would be more appropriate. For one, it's closer to the JIS layout of the original Pingmaster; and also Pingmasters and AEK's don't really go in the same basket if you ask me. Here is the layout:

Show Image

The differing keys are marked in green. I recommend changing the sublegends to match this layout.

Note also that the ヲ sublegend on the 0) key needs to be regular size, not small like the ャ, ュ, ョ etc. sublegends next to it. Also note the absence of ¥ symbols on any of the backslash keys. This is because having ¥ symbols there is incorrect/inaccurate (sets like MT3 Serika, which you may have used as a reference, got this wrong).

Man, I'm loving this set now.  Those alphas are looking good!

I also notice some corrections have been done to the JP Legends as well, which I do appreciate.  I still want the Katakana legends to be correct to the Windows standard though, as konstantin has pointed out

More

Your set's placement of the katakana sublegends appears to be based on Apple's variant of the ANSI JP layout, as seen on the AEK:

Show Image

However, I think the standard ANSI JP layout that's used on Windows, Linux and other systems would be more appropriate. For one, it's closer to the JIS layout of the original Pingmaster; and also Pingmasters and AEK's don't really go in the same basket if you ask me. Here is the layout:

Show Image

The differing keys are marked in green. I recommend changing the sublegends to match this layout.

Note also that the ヲ sublegend on the 0) key needs to be regular size, not small like the ャ, ュ, ョ etc. sublegends next to it. Also note the absence of ¥ symbols on any of the backslash keys. This is because having ¥ symbols there is incorrect/inaccurate (sets like MT3 Serika, which you may have used as a reference, got this wrong).

, just so it can be usable to the rare chance somebody actually uses the legends -- but I'm fine with whatever.

Also, for the numpad Enter key with the vertical legend, I believe the dash at the end of エンター is vertical because it's written vertically.  I could be wrong though, but I'm somewhat sure that this is the case.

Very nice! Loving these changes.

On a related note, I also recommend changing the alpha keys in the ISO kit as follows:

• R3 \|ヘ¥ → \|ム
• R4 <>  → <>ロ

This will not only match the above standard ANSI JP layout, but will also allow your set to cover JIS keyboards. If you also add the following two keys to the ISO kit, your set will have complete JIS alpha coverage, matching that of the original Pingmaster:

• add R1 1u `~ー (alpha-colored)
• add R1 1u 半角 / 全角 or 半/全 (mod-colored)

See GMK Mecha-01's base kit for an example of these keys.

ISO

Show Image

Split out ISO into its own kit and included accents

Edit: Here is a KLE mockup of what I mean (additional Enter keys omitted):

Show Image

Man, I'm loving this set now.  Those alphas are looking good!

I also notice some corrections have been done to the JP Legends as well, which I do appreciate.  I still want the Katakana legends to be correct to the Windows standard though, as konstantin has pointed out

More

Your set's placement of the katakana sublegends appears to be based on Apple's variant of the ANSI JP layout, as seen on the AEK:

Show Image

However, I think the standard ANSI JP layout that's used on Windows, Linux and other systems would be more appropriate. For one, it's closer to the JIS layout of the original Pingmaster; and also Pingmasters and AEK's don't really go in the same basket if you ask me. Here is the layout:

Show Image

The differing keys are marked in green. I recommend changing the sublegends to match this layout.

Note also that the ヲ sublegend on the 0) key needs to be regular size, not small like the ャ, ュ, ョ etc. sublegends next to it. Also note the absence of ¥ symbols on any of the backslash keys. This is because having ¥ symbols there is incorrect/inaccurate (sets like MT3 Serika, which you may have used as a reference, got this wrong).

, just so it can be usable to the rare chance somebody actually uses the legends -- but I'm fine with whatever.

Also, for the numpad Enter key with the vertical legend, I believe the dash at the end of エンター is vertical because it's written vertically.  I could be wrong though, but I'm somewhat sure that this is the case.

Very nice! Loving these changes.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of the Numpad enter key. I understand that you wanted to use 'エンター' vertically, but the last dash should be vertical, not horizontal.

Also, I might be wrong but the 'ン' in the Numpad enter is incorrect. Looking at your other legends you have 'エンター' correct, but the Numpad enter is 'エソター'.

edit: Same for the alpha set too. There is two 'ソ' keys instead of one 'ソ' and one 'ン'. Specifically the 'Y' and 'C' key. Japanese is such a weird language. If you need help lmk. I can help.

Seriously appreciate all of your feedback here! The Japanese legends definitely aren't perfect, so we're going to be tweaking them a bit more and take your feedback heavily into consideration when doing so

[FRANCO]

Ooof...I also just realized that I completely forgot to put a section to collect emails...just added!

[konstantin]

I created a guide for katakana sublegends which you may find useful:


(KLE link)

I recommend including all of the keys except for the red ones. The legends here are Cherry-style, but you can adapt them to match your set. Take note of the sizing and positioning of the various sublegends.

The mod-colored key labeled Any can be the 半角 / 全角 key I mentioned above, or a text novelty like IBM.


Edit: updated link

[newtype_]

Will absolutely buy a set for my brown alps build. Great work.

[Fredington]

Check out the Katakana-variant IBM 5556 Multistation keyboard

More

Show Image

-- that's what I'd imagine it to be similar to

Thanks for posting that Multistation. It'll help build out the mods for the overhaul we are planning ;)

[FRANCO]

Updated the kits back into one base kit that includes both alphas and modifiers as we decided to combine both text and icon mods from the Japanese and Chinese variants of the Pingmaster

We think this is more faithful to the name, and honestly should have been this way from the beginning.  And we understand if people are disappointed, but we hope you like the changes as much as we do

[menuhin]

...
Split Spacebars

Show Image

We added a Split Spacebar kit for more compatibility with various layouts. Please note which spacebars are marked as ABS

...

Can you confirm with Signature Plastics that the spacebar kit has convex spacebar keys instead of just blank keys?
Perhaps I'm not so updated, I haven't heard that SP has the required curved convex spacebar molds or has done any such production in the past.

[FRANCO]

Can you confirm with Signature Plastics that the spacebar kit has convex spacebar keys instead of just blank keys?
Perhaps I'm not so updated, I haven't heard that SP has the required curved convex spacebar molds or has done any such production in the past.

Good call out! I'll check it out and follow up once I hear back

[ddrfraser1]

Not sure I love all the changes, (BAE!  ) But doesn't matter. I'm pretty much in no matter what 

[bibobim]

Since the kit has been finalized, do you have any estimated price for the base kit? I personally like the alpha and mods on the base kit on the current verion.

[FRANCO]

Since the kit has been finalized, do you have any estimated price for the base kit? I personally like the alpha and mods on the base kit on the current verion.

We haven't set up vendors yet, so we currently don't have pricing to share. Will be sure to provide an update once we do!

[kajahtaa]

Japanese Pingmaster had 1.25 Return?

[mode]

Are you going for homing scoops or bars? If scoops, can you get assurances that they won't forget to do them like they did for alps throwback?

I am pro scoops.

[gnho]

Any update?

[Little4Real]

Hope this keyset is ran soon-ish!

[Friendship]

Amassing my alps components now and would love to sport this set on the build. i made an account just to put my name in the hat and stoke the flames of creation.

[it99]

Dang I really wanted the set back with v1.1 (alphas and 2 mod kits) but now idk, I might go for Hineys Alps BoW keycaps set. But I respect the changes you made for authenticity ig. Imo even if it's not authentic it's fine since you should make a keyset you truly enjoy - if it has jp mods, so be it, since that might be what you prefer or something you find more pleasing than the original source material. Just my 2 cents tho and I still respect your changes so far. Just would kindly ask if you'd consider bringing it back to v1.1 haha

[DetectiveNio]

Any updates? Love dcs Yuri but this is some endgame set

[i luv chuletas]

Any updates on this? Def. interesting in picking up at least two base kits!

[Little4Real]

Dang I really wanted the set back with v1.1 (alphas and 2 mod kits) but now idk, I might go for Hineys Alps BoW keycaps set. But I respect the changes you made for authenticity ig. Imo even if it's not authentic it's fine since you should make a keyset you truly enjoy - if it has jp mods, so be it, since that might be what you prefer or something you find more pleasing than the original source material. Just my 2 cents tho and I still respect your changes so far. Just would kindly ask if you'd consider bringing it back to v1.1 haha

Sounds like you'd prefer the Cherry-style dyesubs, opposed to staying true to the Pingmaster.

[PigeonsLikeBread]

Are PBT DCS Alps thicker than ABS? This set looks really nice but I am slightly hesitant with DCS caps in general.

[pixelpusher]

Are PBT DCS Alps thicker than ABS? This set looks really nice but I am slightly hesitant with DCS caps in general.

nope, they are the same thickness.  Thin but pretty

[directheatedtriode]

Are PBT DCS Alps thicker than ABS? This set looks really nice but I am slightly hesitant with DCS caps in general.

If your concern was regard to sound DCS Alps sound really good.

[keyboardkrill]

Are PBT DCS Alps thicker than ABS? This set looks really nice but I am slightly hesitant with DCS caps in general.

If your concern was regard to sound DCS Alps sound really good.

I got DCS Yuri, and although I love it, I do worry about the the thinness of the keycap stem. There is a vod of Mr. Keebs accidently snapping off a DCS stem when he was just trying to remove a keycap. Still interested in this set, I just need to be REALLY careful when taking off caps. Might even buy an extra set jic.

[mode]

Are PBT DCS Alps thicker than ABS? This set looks really nice but I am slightly hesitant with DCS caps in general.

If your concern was regard to sound DCS Alps sound really good.

I got DCS Yuri, and although I love it, I do worry about the the thinness of the keycap stem. There is a vod of Mr. Keebs accidently snapping off a DCS stem when he was just trying to remove a keycap. Still interested in this set, I just need to be REALLY careful when taking off caps. Might even buy an extra set jic.

TBH, i've snapped thick PBT alps stems by accident, I've always been careful with my Yuri set, but it's not that tight a fit in my blue and orange alps. DSA lightcycle was bad as it was both a really tight fit (apparently, I didn't own the set) and doubleshot, which is inherently weaker than singleshot, and DSA alps doesn't have any stem supports like DCS does.

I don't think there are any alps sets which won't snap if one side of your puller slips, as long as you're careful of that you should be fine.

Surprised at people saying DCS sounds good, it doesn't sound bad, but it's thin abs, alps still generally sound good, but they're not and never will be thocky caps.

[Little4Real]

Surprised at people saying DCS sounds good, it doesn't sound bad, but it's thin abs, alps still generally sound good, but they're not and never will be thocky caps.

It'll actually be PBT, like DCS Alps Throwback. DCS PBT is a little "thockier" than the ABS variant.

[mode]

Surprised at people saying DCS sounds good, it doesn't sound bad, but it's thin abs, alps still generally sound good, but they're not and never will be thocky caps.

It'll actually be PBT, like DCS Alps Throwback. DCS PBT is a little "thockier" than the ABS variant.

I know, was just referring to the characteristics of Yuri, as I have that set, I didn't get alps throwback.

I wouldn't describe pbt as inherently more thocky though, just a different timbre. I certainly do prefer it.

[Friendship]

any update on this set?

[DetectiveNio]

Aw man hope this set gets picked up soon. Sourcing alps caps is a pain

[i luv chuletas]

Damn, was seriously looking forward to this.
Hopefully it comes back up sooner rather than later, there's real demand for an ALPS pbt dcs keycap set 

[gnho]

I have been following this set and SA 8010. I hope both will run soon!!

Is there a discord server where I can get the update?

[ephemeral25]

Definitely interested, Base kit is a little kitty please add ISO and numpad in it to reduice costs.

[konstantin]

Definitely interested, Base kit is a little kitty please add ISO and numpad in it to reduice costs.

There are no pricing overheads to splitting kits with SP, and therefore there are no cost reductions nor other benefits to putting ISO and numpad in the base kit.

[mode]

Definitely interested, Base kit is a little kitty please add ISO and numpad in it to reduice costs.

There are no pricing overheads to splitting kits with SP, and therefore there are no cost reductions nor other benefits to putting ISO and numpad in the base kit.

The iso kit never gets made when it’s separate though, yet I for one would not buy any set without one. there are still benefits for just having one complete set and moq.

[Zephyraeon]

Have there been any updates on this? I couldn't find the supposed new thread which I assumed would be up by now. Really looking forward to Pingmaster - hope it still happens

EDIT: Posted this question only a couple days early! New IC thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=112117.0