Author Topic: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #4 2018.07.17) GB soon  (Read 23673 times)

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Offline hansichen

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[IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #4 2018.07.17) GB soon
« on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 09:04:25 »
Update #1: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94733.msg2580679#msg2580679
Update #2: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94733.msg2606060#msg2606060
Update #3: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94733.msg2631316#msg2631316
Update #4: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94733.msg2639735#msg2639735


Hello geekhack community,
as long as I've been part of this community and hobby I've always liked uncommon sublegends, localisations and special keycaps. One of the sets that I've always adored was the greek Cherry keyset which was produced for olivetti. This is a picture of the keyset:



More pictures can be found here: https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/cherry-g81-3011-hbq-t10437.html


Some of you are probably not even familiar with the set, the others probably know how rare these sets are and that it's very difficult to get their hands on one. As this set was produced by Cherry, we still have the opportunity to produce a remake by GMK. To make this happen, I wanna collect interest here. If we get enough responses here, I'll start to look for a vendor and hopefully this will result in a successful group buy, just like 9009 did.
I don't have any renders renders ready but I think that the original pictures already speak for themself. In regard to kit design I want to go with a similar base kit as GMK 9009 had because I think that it was a nearly perfect set. Therefore this set will have icon mods and the text bottom row. The color will remain in olivetti style. The price of this set will most likely be cheaper than 9009 (which already had a perfect value imo) because this set doesn't have the accent keys. With 150 moq 9009 sold for 135€ at mykeyboard.eu + shipping and we'll most likely stay below that. I can't give you a US price right now because of the conversion rates but you should have an idea at what I'm aiming.




More
That is the 9009 base kit which will be similar to what I'm aiming for this set:

Current layout:


Space bar kit:



Short summary
  • The set will be produced in Germany by GMK and it will be made out of abs plastic
  • The sublegends are part of the mold and they will be doubleshot, no pad printing is used in this set.
  • The base kit will be similar to GMK 9009, therefore we are aiming at a similar pricing (135€ at 150 moq)
  • The set will have the original colorway and icon mods like 9009

To-do-list:
  • Collect interest
  • Decide about the kit design and some modifier legends
  • Decide about accent keys (maybe just a set of blue keys esc + return + numpad return)
  • Find a vendor when the things above are done


And now only the google form is left. Please fill it out (you don't need a google account for it) so that I have an idea about the size of interest, else it'll be rather difficult to find a vendor. Any kind of feedback can be placed in the google form or in the thread here.

Google form for feedback: https://goo.gl/forms/lMlQWgWvMlW7mKLT2
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 July 2018, 13:51:02 by hansichen »

Offline a_ak57

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 09:42:19 »
Does GMK already have the molds for greek alphas?  Otherwise I feel like 9009 pricing isn't entirely realistic, though I readily admit I have zero idea about how any of that works.

Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 09:45:16 »
Does GMK already have the molds for greek alphas?  Otherwise I feel like 9009 pricing isn't entirely realistic, though I readily admit I have zero idea about how any of that works.

Yes, GMK owns the original molds which Cherry used to produce the Olivetti board, these molds will be used for this set too.

Offline blerc

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:16:28 »
All good, but the Ç should be replaced with ς, as the first symbol is Turkish, not Greek

Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:36:17 »
All good, but the Ç should be replaced with ς, as the first symbol is Turkish, not Greek


Sadly it looks like Cherry used the wrong legend when making the greek molds, both of their greek keysets use the wrong legend on the W letter. Replacing the mold will get expensive so I'm not sure if that's really viable :/ Also I realized that this set won't have barred homing keys at the moment because that would need two new molds too. Those will most likely be skipped in this set.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:44:21 »
if the subs aren't doubleshot i'm not interested
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Offline donutcat

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:48:10 »
Molds are pretty affordable, 150€ each, so 1€ per set at 150moq, which imo is reasonable for getting the set "correct". Also, I would like to argue in favor of text+icon mods, not only because I personally think they look better, but also because that's what is on that board you have shown right there, so it's "correct" for the set.

if the subs aren't doubleshot i'm not interested

Offline blerc

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 12:44:09 »
Sadly it looks like Cherry used the wrong legend when making the greek molds, both of their greek keysets use the wrong legend on the W letter. Replacing the mold will get expensive so I'm not sure if that's really viable :/ Also I realized that this set won't have barred homing keys at the moment because that would need two new molds too. Those will most likely be skipped in this set.

If what Donut says is correct, you can also change/revise the Ψ letter. I have looked for it in the past, and although helvetica font family has a Greek set, there is none for the Helvetica Round, the one used in the above Latin/Greek keyset. It seems that they just made those letters out of the latin ones, and the letter Ψ is more curvy than the usual. looks like a ω with a | on it :P

Let me know if there's anything I could help you with.


Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 13:23:13 »
I've made some mockups with icon+text and icon only mods and I personally prefer the icon mods. For me many of the sublegends look like art and in that context the simplistic icon mods work the best. And breaking with the past is not always a bad thing, eg we don't want to use the CTRL legend anymore (even if someone proposed to use this cap as an additional accent key  ^-^ ). Also GMK 9009 broke with the original set. G80-9009 boards are the root of all evil and include the icon+text 1,25u shift key which looks like ****. On these keys the legend doesn't even fit the key.

Regarding the legends: 3 people already complained about the W cap so I consider to make a new legend here. We could also think about doing barred homing but that would require two new molds too, at the moment I tend to skip that and just go with scoops.
Other things that I'm currently thinking about:
  • diamonds or something else as "windows" keys because I wasn't satisfied with the 1u super key in GMK 9009
  • French style nav-key-icons
  • Accent keys
  • Backspace keys will have the arrow design (also the 1,5u backspace) and not the big one
  • CTRL won't happen because that would most likely require Row 5, I like row 5 but that would include a lot of keys
  • Space bar kit may happen, not sure about windowed keys, also not sure about arrow down or handbag
  • ISO-UK caps: yes, norde-kit: no
  • tbc

Offline switchnollie

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 15:40:58 »
If the sub legends are doubleshot I'd like this, even if it ends up not being Olivetti.


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Offline hineybush

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 18:12:02 »
Very very cool. I was discussion a set like this with Blerc a few months ago :P

My only suggestion if you decide to go with the 9009-style kit: change the / and * keys on the numpad to the correct obelus and multiplication symbols.

Offline ghostjuggernaut

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 18:16:31 »
Ive been wanting someone to run this set for years, so you have my interest. 

Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 18:17:51 »
Very very cool. I was discussion a set like this with Blerc a few months ago :P

My only suggestion if you decide to go with the 9009-style kit: change the / and * keys on the numpad to the correct obelus and multiplication symbols.

What's the correct legend for you? * and / seems to be the normal american way, Germans have x and ÷. I guess both are right in their own way, a German numpad also has a , key instead of a . key so it's a regional thing.

Offline Geek Maker

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 20:00:25 »
Maybe the color-way become custom color with sub-legend finally.

Offline hineybush

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 20:31:22 »
Very very cool. I was discussion a set like this with Blerc a few months ago :P

My only suggestion if you decide to go with the 9009-style kit: change the / and * keys on the numpad to the correct obelus and multiplication symbols.

What's the correct legend for you? * and / seems to be the normal american way, Germans have x and ÷. I guess both are right in their own way, a German numpad also has a , key instead of a . key so it's a regional thing.

I prefer x and ÷, as more recent sets have been using

Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 20 March 2018, 05:24:51 »
Very very cool. I was discussion a set like this with Blerc a few months ago :P

My only suggestion if you decide to go with the 9009-style kit: change the / and * keys on the numpad to the correct obelus and multiplication symbols.

What's the correct legend for you? * and / seems to be the normal american way, Germans have x and ÷. I guess both are right in their own way, a German numpad also has a , key instead of a . key so it's a regional thing.

I prefer x and ÷, as more recent sets have been using

Alright, I wasn't aware that people were using it regulary now. As I'm always using boards with this kind of numpad, I'll include it in the first layout mockup :D

Offline kmba

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 20 March 2018, 05:56:01 »
I'd be interested if it weren't olvetti.  Not a fan of that colorway.  Perhaps a good opportunity to make a nice BoW set that uses an actual white color.
keyboards.

Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 21 March 2018, 10:32:08 »
New google poll regarding the layout: https://goo.gl/forms/6fl6hUnMBUcai1yk1


2 days have passed so it's time to share the first results of the IC. Overall 59 people want to buy 1 set, 4 people wanna buy 2 sets and 2 people want to buy more than 5 sets, that would make more than half of the moq. This probably excludes potential buyers from Korea and China as those are mostly not active on the western market.
I'm pretty happy about all the interest, I didn't expect such a positive feedback, thanks for your support.

As the first big update I want to present you the first layout design and a new poll regarding the design choice of the Navigation-keys. Here you can see the layout:




Also I've made a first space bar kit:




This layout uses the old Cherry icon style navigation keys which were used by Cherry on French keysets.
Here you can see the doubleshot version of these keys: https://deskthority.net/w/images/c/c3/G80-2100HDF_001.jpg
This is how it looks with olivetti colors, be aware that this board is a dyesub board and the icons don't look as sharp as on a doubleshot board: https://i.imgur.com/IzlMgpl.jpg

Here you can find the new poll about layout decisions: https://goo.gl/forms/6fl6hUnMBUcai1yk1

Thanks again for your interest and support!

Offline midnight2903

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 21 March 2018, 10:58:35 »
Form submitted. Slightly interested :D

Offline jebbra

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 21 March 2018, 23:31:18 »
This is interesting. Didn't know GMK still have those moulds. While you use icon mod like 9009, I don't think it is wise to use only home - page up - page down in con and have the rest nav cluster text, kinda awkward.

Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 22 March 2018, 16:38:23 »
This is interesting. Didn't know GMK still have those moulds. While you use icon mod like 9009, I don't think it is wise to use only home - page up - page down in con and have the rest nav cluster text, kinda awkward.

I agree that a full icon mod look would be nicer but they don't exist so far. I personally still like the legends and especially on 65% boards and on numpads it looks awesome :D As this is not an easy decision I'm collecting the feedback by the community to achieve the best possible result  :)

Offline pkzheng

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 25 March 2018, 08:36:27 »
I think GMK already has the full icon set. Check out the "Red Honey" set from originativeco.

Offline switchnollie

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 25 March 2018, 13:15:56 »
I think GMK already has the full icon set. Check out the "Red Honey" set from originativeco.


I think just use the Windows logo instead of the honeycombs since no Honeywell and it will look sweet.


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Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 25 March 2018, 14:45:38 »
Thanks for sharing the picture, I completly forgot about this set. I personally have to say that I'm not really a fan of the delete, insert, pause, scrolllock and print screen button, also with this legends we would be forced to use a numpad kit without sublegends. Not really a perfect solution.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 25 March 2018, 15:01:52 »
All good, but the Ç should be replaced with ς, as the first symbol is Turkish, not Greek


Sadly it looks like Cherry used the wrong legend when making the greek molds, both of their greek keysets use the wrong legend on the W letter. Replacing the mold will get expensive so I'm not sure if that's really viable :/ Also I realized that this set won't have barred homing keys at the moment because that would need two new molds too. Those will most likely be skipped in this set.

Wrong legends, not interested. Nice idea though.

Offline mago

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 25 March 2018, 15:05:20 »
Definitely interested in this set :cool:

Offline pkzheng

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 26 March 2018, 05:28:13 »
Thanks for sharing the picture, I completly forgot about this set. I personally have to say that I'm not really a fan of the delete, insert, pause, scrolllock and print screen button, also with this legends we would be forced to use a numpad kit without sublegends. Not really a perfect solution.

Yes. At least take the arrow style End key please.

Offline sncbraxsc2

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 03 April 2018, 14:45:59 »
Interesting  :cool:

Offline metal369

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 17 April 2018, 02:00:02 »
What color code will be used? Maybe custom color needs for  this keyset.
Hi there!


Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 17 April 2018, 04:04:21 »
Custom colors are not planned for this set. This set will use the same colors as gmk blue alert.
I'm a bit busy currently but I'll try to submit the layout to gmk this week for a render.
After the initial feedback I plan to fix the ç key and navigation cluster will be changed to text legends. Page Up/Down will be used too instead of the common PgUp/PgDn legends.

Blue alert uses U9 (modifiers), L9 (alphas) and V4 (accent keys and legends, the accent keys have U9 legends.
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 April 2018, 04:09:08 by hansichen »

Offline avid

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 17 April 2018, 07:26:35 »
Nice. Just a question, you mentioned these will be double-shot. Do GMK have the molds for alphas? Else i think it would be very expensive.

Offline hineybush

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 17 April 2018, 09:38:06 »
Nice. Just a question, you mentioned these will be double-shot. Do GMK have the molds for alphas? Else i think it would be very expensive.

Yeah, they have "all" of the original Cherry molds

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 17 April 2018, 17:42:42 »
Custom colors are not planned for this set. This set will use the same colors as gmk blue alert.
I'm a bit busy currently but I'll try to submit the layout to gmk this week for a render.
After the initial feedback I plan to fix the ç key and navigation cluster will be changed to text legends. Page Up/Down will be used too instead of the common PgUp/PgDn legends.

Blue alert uses U9 (modifiers), L9 (alphas) and V4 (accent keys and legends, the accent keys have U9 legends.

+1 Keep the original beige colors.

Offline sncbraxsc2

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 23 April 2018, 18:30:55 »
I think the vertically aligned legends look really awesome, especially with these languages and icons. R5 would be cool if the cost isn't prohibitive

Offline gnunin

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 23 April 2018, 23:53:28 »
Love me some sublegends.

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 26 April 2018, 21:11:55 »
Any update? I really want this set.

Offline OracleKev

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 27 April 2018, 01:55:54 »
+1 on want.  Tried to get such set through OG Olivetti keyboard, but couldn't find one in good enough condition

Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 28 April 2018, 11:08:01 »
I'm still working on it :) I hope to recieve a render of the set soon  ;D  Once I recieved it I'll give an update here

Offline LightningXI

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 29 April 2018, 02:33:36 »
I really want this set to happen as well! Can't wait for the renders.

Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 09 May 2018, 13:30:44 »
Finally it's time for another update  ;D
Today I recieved the first render by GMK.


Let's sum up all the stuff that happened lately:
- Nav-cluster icon mods were removed after receiving feedback in the last google form
- The greek "C-style-sigma"-sublegend on the W key should be fixed now.
- 1.5u diamond key mold doesn't exist so far, therefore I'm considering to cut true HHKB support. GMK 9009 had those keys and only a handful of people seem to use these keys. Making a new mold for this key seem to be a bit overkill for something that people hardly use. The usage of "super" instead of the diamonds is not an alternative imo cause the "super" legend is too long to fit the 1u keys properly.
- Blue accent keys are displayed with L9 legend color, this should be U9 and is an error right now.
- The iso R4 <> key will loose the | sublegend as it will look way nicer without it. With <> this will have a nice uniform look together with the left aligned legends of the alphas.


I hope I haven't overlooked any errors, if so you'll hopefully tell me  ;)



« Last Edit: Wed, 09 May 2018, 13:40:24 by hansichen »

Offline popkorn62

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #2 2018.05.09)
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 09 May 2018, 15:01:21 »
oh my GOD! I hope this set will come to life. I love the Greek sublegends!
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Offline tanvir175

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #1 21.03)
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 09 May 2018, 15:03:12 »
Finally it's time for another update  ;D
Today I recieved the first render by GMK.


Let's sum up all the stuff that happened lately:
- Nav-cluster icon mods were removed after receiving feedback in the last google form
- The greek "C-style-sigma"-sublegend on the W key should be fixed now.
- 1.5u diamond key mold doesn't exist so far, therefore I'm considering to cut true HHKB support. GMK 9009 had those keys and only a handful of people seem to use these keys. Making a new mold for this key seem to be a bit overkill for something that people hardly use. The usage of "super" instead of the diamonds is not an alternative imo cause the "super" legend is too long to fit the 1u keys properly.
- Blue accent keys are displayed with L9 legend color, this should be U9 and is an error right now.
- The iso R4 <> key will loose the | sublegend as it will look way nicer without it. With <> this will have a nice uniform look together with the left aligned legends of the alphas.


I hope I haven't overlooked any errors, if so you'll hopefully tell me  ;)



Show Image



I'm interested! Although, I agree with Donut about going Icon+Text mods. Will probably join either way, though, if the price is right.

Offline sorijealut

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #2 2018.05.09)
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 09 May 2018, 15:13:58 »
Yeah, very much interested in this. Looks amazing and great updates so far.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #2 2018.05.09)
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 10 May 2018, 01:49:44 »
This is a better transliteration than the one used in this GB, it's the most used by linguists




this is the gb transliteration

195410-1
« Last Edit: Thu, 10 May 2018, 01:53:26 by Giorgio »

Offline LeoShi

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #2 2018.05.09)
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 10 May 2018, 03:49:52 »
 ;D I need this!

Offline allancuttingedge

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #2 2018.05.09)
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 10 May 2018, 04:36:13 »
I'm in this, will join the GB for sure if it happens, this might be my third GMK Olivetti lol :p

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #2 2018.05.09)
« Reply #46 on: Thu, 10 May 2018, 09:28:11 »
I respectfully suggest to include the R3 acute accent and tilde key to support the XT layout. Considering the vintage nature of the set it fits well.



« Last Edit: Thu, 10 May 2018, 09:30:33 by ideus »

Offline rrRes

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #2 2018.05.09)
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 10 May 2018, 12:02:05 »
Yeeees! I'm in..

Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #2 2018.05.09)
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 10 May 2018, 12:06:19 »
This is a better transliteration than the one used in this GB, it's the most used by linguists


this is the gb transliteration


I'm not sure what you want to tell me but if you would like to see the sublegends positions changed that will obviously not happen. Else we should run this as a colemak/dvorak only set too, right?


I respectfully suggest to include the R3 acute accent and tilde key to support the XT layout. Considering the vintage nature of the set it fits well.

It's very unlikely that this key will be added as I don't see anybody using it, sorry

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] GMK Greek Olivetti (Update #2 2018.05.09)
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 10 May 2018, 12:18:31 »
Thank you for your answer. I might be one of those anybody. Of course. There have been a few recent sets that have included it, so far so good.