[IC] GMK Bingsu R2 [GB Starts July 7]

[jameski99]

Is the a chance that you can bring back the R1 deskmats for R2?

[XiXora]

Oh no!
Don't kill UK-ISO dreams. I can still live with them in the extension kit with spare US-ISO 1u from the base…

[asy]

Is the a chance that you can bring back the R1 deskmats for R2?

I hope there'd be a way. I'd definitely get them.

[rowie]

Please consider adding stepped Ctrl for the extension kit. I have plenty of hhkb boards and other 60-65 % that use stepped Ctrl. Come to think of it all my setups are mostly stepped Ctrl since capslock is something I don’t use.  Thanks.

[r00dy]

Wondering if the 1 u backspace could have the text + icon instead of just the text. I know it's niche but having the rest of the 40s mods with text + icon but a 1 u backspace with text only stands out. Also since the enter key has both text and the icon, I figure it should be possible but please correct me if I'm wrong.

[onefivenine]

Original post has been updated with revised kitting: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=113322.msg3058216#msg3058216
We hope this gets us closer to what the community wants and to group buy.

[XiXora]

Argh, now I have to pay way more for UK keys. Oh well, better than nothing and has the accent that a lot of other kits miss out.

Is it possible for 2x 1.5u Supers + 2x 1u alt in r5 since they're in ext kit?

[heyimpanda]

rip as an r1 owner without hangul, having to buy a whole base kit for hangul makes me a sad panda. can't make everyone happy though i guess.

[Lufenia]

Excellent stuff.  100/ 100 for listening

[Neely_12]

Extension kit feels like a cash grab tbh. Could use a bit of trimming, especially adding iso support in base.

[totalemon]

what's up with there being two of every kit ?? And I've seen PLENTY of people asking for an icon mod kit. Not sure why you're so reluctant to even consider it. Like other people have said, this feels extraordinarily half-baked for an experienced designer - where are the renders? Photos of R1 are useful and all but not really conducive of this round (again, please consider icon mods). Why are all the sets duplicated? And on top of that, why are so many of the kits so bloated? It's good for compatibility to an extent but not at all for efficiency or your customers' wallets. You've given *zero* explanation for any of these choices. Glad we at least got an IC, but given that even *that* took a lot of people asking on the insta post I can't at all blame other people for being apprehensive. I'll definitely cop if feedback is actually taken into account, but right now it seems pretty lacklustre. GLWIC

[SafeAtShore]

Extension kit feels like a cash grab tbh. Could use a bit of trimming, especially adding iso support in base.

Agreed. There's still no reason to spin those off into a separate kit when other sets have a lot of those keys in base. We all know this set can hit a high MOQ, so base and extensions kits could absolutely be merged. Justifying it by saying there aren't a lot of boards with those layouts is a cop-out; there will always be leftover caps from base, and pricing will be reasonable with high MOQ.

We really shouldn't pay extra for something that should be in base to begin with, but the designer knows this set is too popular to fail.

[bball2]

No comments, looking forward to the group buy!

[VoodooBear]

As others have mentioned already, I think the extension kit can be done away with entirely. Move all the mods to base and maybe the Alice bars and then just make a proper spacebars kit instead by rolling that into the accent kit. Removes 1 SKU and adds compatibility that makes sense with the 2nd B that's on base already.

[Quinella]

endash 

[Fraaaan]

Did you seriously move ISO support to the international kit? You guys are a joke.

[lalostad98]

f13 and basic iso support should be in the base kit, it's 2021.
Also, there's no need to have a second b for alice layout without having enough shifts to have basic alice layout support (without spacebars).

[ZavaZ86]

People asking for basic iso support in base and in return you put it in international amazing job. Now people who want hangul base are forced to buy international kit. This so called IC seems more like a copy paste of kits put up by dixie with dualshot r2 where the same thing happened. Hopefully that's not the case...

[Lufenia]

If you keep the second B in the base kit, I can go Alice with just the accent kit which I intend to buy in the first place.

So hard disagree on removing the second B

Edit: A word 

[rowie]

Wow now I’ll end up with two base kits in addition to getting the lighter mod kit. Ughhh. I was originally planning to get one base kit and the Hangul with the lighter mod kit. It would of been nice if Hangul was combined with the lighter mod kit to have something different, kinda of like having Olivia light and Olivia dark kits.

[paulgali]

You're not listening to anyone in this thread.

• B in base is useless without the subsequent shifts to at least cover alice style layouts. Keep b in base, add shifts, or add the alice bars into base.
• You have excluded F13 so we would need to buy a whole kit for one single key, that is more and more commonly in use
• Not having UK ISO in base is okay, I guess - but you should absolutely (at the very least) support the ISO layout.

It's clear you are reading feedback on the IC, but at this point it is a cashgrab, you are selectively kitting to try and maximize kits sold. Base should cover the majority of layouts, and leaving out ISO completely is not something that should be taken lightly. Please consider changes, as you have already done so.

[andrewregal]

I'm a bit confused reading the edited first post because there is a "More" button under most of the images. Does this mean that there will be both a Hangul Kit and Hangul Base Kit offered? Or is it only the top version that is updated and the one in the expanded view can be ignored?

[hottrout]

I missed the R1 of this set and I love the colours.  I really want to join this round, but moving ISO to a separate kit is strange given that a lot of people have been adding UK ISO to the base.  I think you need to look at your kitting again, for everyone.

[onefivenine]

Did you seriously move ISO support to the international kit? You guys are a joke.

I missed the R1 of this set and I love the colours.  I really want to join this round, but moving ISO to a separate kit is strange given that a lot of people have been adding UK ISO to the base.  I think you need to look at your kitting again, for everyone.

ISO: The alternative would be to put us/terminal ISO in base. This would provide physical compatibility, but you would lose the expanded support for nordeuk etc. I am open to this idea, but would prefer that users have access to their preferred aesthetics. Let me know your thoughts!

]

You're not listening to anyone in this thread.

• B in base is useless without the subsequent shifts to at least cover alice style layouts. Keep b in base, add shifts, or add the alice bars into base.
• You have excluded F13 so we would need to buy a whole kit for one single key, that is more and more commonly in use
• Not having UK ISO in base is okay, I guess - but you should absolutely (at the very least) support the ISO layout.

It's clear you are reading feedback on the IC, but at this point it is a cashgrab, you are selectively kitting to try and maximize kits sold. Base should cover the majority of layouts, and leaving out ISO completely is not something that should be taken lightly. Please consider changes, as you have already done so.

B in base: The extra "B" key in base kit does NOT change the price of the base set, it allows for Alice support if you add the following child kits:

• Accent Kit
• Extension Kit
• Fourties Kit

This makes more sense than adding an extra "B" to each of those 3 kits.

ISO: See reply above.
F13 not in base: F13 is included in the extension kit, which supports extended 65+ cluster, Alice/split bars, Terminal/Mac users. F13 is also included in the Mod Kit.

Wow now I’ll end up with two base kits in addition to getting the lighter mod kit. Ughhh. I was originally planning to get one base kit and the Hangul with the lighter mod kit. It would of been nice if Hangul was combined with the lighter mod kit to have something different, kinda of like having Olivia light and Olivia dark kits.

Are you trying to cover 2 boards? If so, the previous kitting of the Hangul child kit does not have punctuations, numbers, nor F-row keys. You wouldn't have been able to achieve this.

I'm a bit confused reading the edited first post because there is a "More" button under most of the images. Does this mean that there will be both a Hangul Kit and Hangul Base Kit offered? Or is it only the top version that is updated and the one in the expanded view can be ignored?

Photos listed in the "More" section are previous proposed kits. They have been left there for reference and progression.

People asking for basic iso support in base and in return you put it in international amazing job. Now people who want hangul base are forced to buy international kit. This so called IC seems more like a copy paste of kits put up by dixie with dualshot r2 where the same thing happened. Hopefully that's not the case...

I don't believe this is the voice of all ISO users. We have received a spectrum of request on ISO support ranging from: basic iso to international kit.

Wondering if the 1 u backspace could have the text + icon instead of just the text. I know it's niche but having the rest of the 40s mods with text + icon but a 1 u backspace with text only stands out. Also since the enter key has both text and the icon, I figure it should be possible but please correct me if I'm wrong.

This should be possible. I believe other sets have done this before and this change can be done after verifying in the next kit update.

Argh, now I have to pay way more for UK keys. Oh well, better than nothing and has the accent that a lot of other kits miss out.

Is it possible for 2x 1.5u Supers + 2x 1u alt in r5 since they're in ext kit?

This is a pretty big ask. I will consider moving these keys to R5 from the Extension Kit. Maybe.

Please consider adding stepped Ctrl for the extension kit. I have plenty of hhkb boards and other 60-65 % that use stepped Ctrl. Come to think of it all my setups are mostly stepped Ctrl since capslock is something I don’t use.  Thanks.

I will consider dropping the windowed keys in replace of a stepped control. However, if we opt for a bigger base kit, it may push the Extension Kit to be dispersed into Base and Accent/spacebars.


P.S. Let me try revised kitting based on the original group buy kitting. I appreciate all the feedback and interest! I'll be back later with more updates

[Lizcuits]

A few things to note:

I actually don't think putting two separate base kits is the change that anyone really wanted. There's a few people that would benefit and it's easier for people who only want one alphas option, but it comes at an extremely heavy cost for people who wanted both hangul + latin alphas.

Additionally, the changes you made to the base kit weren't really significant and didn't address much of the concerns people had.

The biggest issue I am seeing with the Base kit is its minimal coverage of boards outside the 65%-100% range and non-standard layouts. There is literally zero reason to have the B in the base kit as it stands, because you physically cannot cover any alice boards (which is the ONLY reason the B is there in the first place). If you are not going to have complete alice support or at least makeshift alice support in the base, the B has no reason to be there.
Additionally, as an Alice user, there is no real clear option whether you should buy the Extensions kit or the 40s kit (since the only things we need from those kits are the two/three bars). The kitting feels confusing and overlaps too much for such common layouts.

You can:
- Either add the shifts or bars required for Alice in base
- Remove the B and create a Spacebars kit with B included in it & all bars from Extensions & 40s
If you do neither, your kitting as it stands is completely nonsense from an Alice standpoint.

Additionally:
- Please add a spacebars kit and remove the bars from the 40s/Extensions kits or just combine both kits and add the B for total alice support.
There's no reason for these two kits to be split up in such an odd way with so much overlap especially when so much of it really ought to be in the base kit in the first place.
- Add F13 to base (the cost of this can easily be mitigated by removing B from base if that's the choice you wanted to make from our Alice suggestions)
- The Accent kit only adds to the confusion, tbh. I would move accent arrows to base and move accent bars to the Spacebars kit (that I hope you will make) or just drop them altogether
- I can somewhat understand moving ISO to an international kit but it really makes more sense to at least include the 2-3 keys required for the most bare minimum ISO support to Base.
There's no good justification for why the current base kit is so painfully barebones, especially knowing this set can make a massive MOQ to help reduce costs.

Personal preference here, but I don't really like the new deskmats so +1 to bringing back the previous mat options. They're nearly impossible to find and the new ones are a lot... less classy? And don't have quite the broad appeal.

Hope you guys don't stop your revisions and fix the issues with alice support and 40s/Extension chaos. The base kit really could hold a lot of the base support for most of these kits, and the spacebars kit could help a lot in mitigating these issues.

[xtadecitrus]

Hi, why did you decide to change the icon mods into icon+text? Just wondering. I would prefer just icon for a cleaner look. Thanks for bringing this back!

[Fraaaan]

The alternative would be to put us/terminal ISO in base. This would provide physical compatibility, but you would lose the expanded support for nordeuk etc. I am open to this idea, but would prefer that users have access to their preferred aesthetics. Let me know your thoughts!

Yes. That is exactly what we want. That is what we've been telling you to do since you opened up the IC but instead you moved basic ISO support to an even more expensive kit. Also Germany, UK and Scandinavian countries aren't the only ones using ISO so your "preferred aesthetics" argument makes no sense unless you're supporting every single national layout.

[heyimpanda]

I agree with the precious poster that the B in the base kit isn't ideal if you have to buy a separate kit to use it. As an R1 owner who needs Alice compat, I would have to buy a base kit for the second B in addition to the spacebar kit.

I too think the accent kit needs to be axed and have the accent arrows in base, and accent bars in the spacebar kit with the second B's. but of course I'm biased as this is best for my needs but not necessarily everyone else's. I guess that's the complexity of an R2 that needs to accommodate for both new and R1 owners who didn't buy the original child kits.

[hali]

Can this set slow down a little with all the Base kit trimmings? Prices are going to by abysmal for a not-so-small minority if things keep getting moved like this.

The Base kit needs to have as much physical compatibility as possible. ISO users just want their shifts, enters, and alpha additions for a reasonable price, yet a Norde kit was added when nobody really even asked for one. F13 is also relegated to extension which also doesn't make much sense.

How come some designers don't seem to realize that nobody wants to shell out $50 for a GK64 shift? People just aren't going to buy the extension kit.

My final recommendation is to move UKISO, 660 shift, Mac/HHKB compat bottom row, F13, and accent ISO and numpad enter to Base.
The Accent kit should just become a Spacebars kit, with arrows and a 1u spacebar removed and two 3u bars added.
Windowed keys should have Scroll Lock and Num Lock added, and can also go to novelties for all I care; they're accent keys anyways.
Novelties kit should have some alpha coloured keys removed because an alpha macro column is just kinda cursed.

On top of these, I highly recommend reconsidering the Alt mod, R5, and Norde kits. I haven't seen much Alt mod praise in this thread, R5 doesn't make much sense, and there was little to no demand for Norde in the thread alone - though more opinions about it might arise if physical ISO support is addressed properly first.

[puppydork]

Not a fan of the new desk mats, too cartoony. The old ones had a simpler and cleaner vibe to them. +1 to bring back the old ones, or at least the border mat.

I won't comment about the kits, since a lot have voiced their opinion on it already. Hopefully, everyone can get into an agreement.

[Lizcuits]

Novelties kit should have some alpha coloured keys removed because an alpha macro column is just kinda cursed.

On top of these, I highly recommend reconsidering the Alt mod, R5, and Norde kits. I haven't seen much Alt mod praise in this thread, R5 doesn't make much sense, and there was little to no demand for Norde in the thread alone - though more opinions about it might arise if physical ISO support is addressed properly first.

I also agree on the alt mod kit especially. I can't see it selling well and that's the reason the novelties kit has the alpha colored keys I'm guessing. Cutting alt mods would therefore shave a bit off of the novelties kit pricing.

+1 for moving Windowed keys to novelties as well, I want to have them without having to buy a strange compat kit I don't need just for a few novelty keys.

If Norde will hit MOQ I guess there's no issue including it, but it's such a huge kit I can't imagine it will be cheap enough to justify for a lot of people. I would probably recommend trimming it down a bit (moving ISO to base will help...) so it's less enormous.

As for R5 it does feel a bit out of place but again, no real harm in it if it's going to hit MOQ which it likely will considering how high profile this set is.

[DeMechanica]

Yes! Thank you for running this again! Such a beautiful set.

[FaIIen]

Take my money

[sup3r170va]

I can understand why having an extra B in base may be justified over having multiple Bs in multiple kits. Especially since there’s regular B and then hangul sublegends. Maybe useful to explain the trade off of not including the shifts/shorter spacebars that Alice users are looking for. Will it increase the price significantly?

Second question is regarding F13. Will it increase the price by including it in the base kit? Cos it’s a TKL tied key. A bit odd to buy an extra kit just to get this key.

Did you seriously move ISO support to the international kit? You guys are a joke.

I missed the R1 of this set and I love the colours.  I really want to join this round, but moving ISO to a separate kit is strange given that a lot of people have been adding UK ISO to the base.  I think you need to look at your kitting again, for everyone.

ISO: The alternative would be to put us/terminal ISO in base. This would provide physical compatibility, but you would lose the expanded support for nordeuk etc. I am open to this idea, but would prefer that users have access to their preferred aesthetics. Let me know your thoughts!

]

You're not listening to anyone in this thread.

• B in base is useless without the subsequent shifts to at least cover alice style layouts. Keep b in base, add shifts, or add the alice bars into base.
• You have excluded F13 so we would need to buy a whole kit for one single key, that is more and more commonly in use
• Not having UK ISO in base is okay, I guess - but you should absolutely (at the very least) support the ISO layout.

It's clear you are reading feedback on the IC, but at this point it is a cashgrab, you are selectively kitting to try and maximize kits sold. Base should cover the majority of layouts, and leaving out ISO completely is not something that should be taken lightly. Please consider changes, as you have already done so.

B in base: The extra "B" key in base kit does NOT change the price of the base set, it allows for Alice support if you add the following child kits:

• Accent Kit
• Extension Kit
• Fourties Kit

This makes more sense than adding an extra "B" to each of those 3 kits.

ISO: See reply above.
F13 not in base: F13 is included in the extension kit, which supports extended 65+ cluster, Alice/split bars, Terminal/Mac users. F13 is also included in the Mod Kit.

Wow now I’ll end up with two base kits in addition to getting the lighter mod kit. Ughhh. I was originally planning to get one base kit and the Hangul with the lighter mod kit. It would of been nice if Hangul was combined with the lighter mod kit to have something different, kinda of like having Olivia light and Olivia dark kits.

Are you trying to cover 2 boards? If so, the previous kitting of the Hangul child kit does not have punctuations, numbers, nor F-row keys. You wouldn't have been able to achieve this.

I'm a bit confused reading the edited first post because there is a "More" button under most of the images. Does this mean that there will be both a Hangul Kit and Hangul Base Kit offered? Or is it only the top version that is updated and the one in the expanded view can be ignored?

Photos listed in the "More" section are previous proposed kits. They have been left there for reference and progression.

People asking for basic iso support in base and in return you put it in international amazing job. Now people who want hangul base are forced to buy international kit. This so called IC seems more like a copy paste of kits put up by dixie with dualshot r2 where the same thing happened. Hopefully that's not the case...

I don't believe this is the voice of all ISO users. We have received a spectrum of request on ISO support ranging from: basic iso to international kit.

Wondering if the 1 u backspace could have the text + icon instead of just the text. I know it's niche but having the rest of the 40s mods with text + icon but a 1 u backspace with text only stands out. Also since the enter key has both text and the icon, I figure it should be possible but please correct me if I'm wrong.

This should be possible. I believe other sets have done this before and this change can be done after verifying in the next kit update.

Argh, now I have to pay way more for UK keys. Oh well, better than nothing and has the accent that a lot of other kits miss out.

Is it possible for 2x 1.5u Supers + 2x 1u alt in r5 since they're in ext kit?

This is a pretty big ask. I will consider moving these keys to R5 from the Extension Kit. Maybe.

Please consider adding stepped Ctrl for the extension kit. I have plenty of hhkb boards and other 60-65 % that use stepped Ctrl. Come to think of it all my setups are mostly stepped Ctrl since capslock is something I don’t use.  Thanks.

I will consider dropping the windowed keys in replace of a stepped control. However, if we opt for a bigger base kit, it may push the Extension Kit to be dispersed into Base and Accent/spacebars.


P.S. Let me try revised kitting based on the original group buy kitting. I appreciate all the feedback and interest! I'll be back later with more updates

[catfromonomichi]

Excited for this R2!!

[busytimmy]

Although I love the colours here, the kitting is awful. You need to start from scratch. Literally just look at something like AD2 and just do the same kitting. It's not rocket science smh.

[alpaone]

[...]

[...]
Is it possible for 2x 1.5u Supers + 2x 1u alt in r5 since they're in ext kit?

This is a pretty big ask. I will consider moving these keys to R5 from the Extension Kit. Maybe.
[...]
However, if we opt for a bigger base kit, it may push the Extension Kit to be dispersed into Base and Accent/spacebars.

Please keep those keys as R4 in either the extension or base kit.

[Bubblegum]

To people saying that no one asked for a NorDe kit. I've asked in the IC for round one, and afterwards in discord before round 2 IC went live. There are some of us out here that still wants it. I am super happy that it's been added and will gladly pick it up this round to go with my round one set!

That said I think that basic physical ISO support should always be included in base kits. That being the four keys making you able to cover all keys on an ISO layout keyboard. Would be solved by moving one of the ISO Enter keys, 1.25u shift and 2 alphas from the international kit to base kit.

GL with IC! In for NorDeUK <3

[bukowski]

Thanks so much for adding NorDeUK. I am super in!!!

[roguesystem087]

really hope you would consider icon mods it really does make the set look clean

[noodleman]

would love some extra R5 1.5u keys for sure, especially for those of us ctrl in the capslock position.  Even just one R5 1.5u super key would be amazing.

[azack]

can't comment much on kitting but thank you for r2 and text+icon mods wew

[hkhawk]

Please copy the Base kitting for Analog Dreams R2 or Handarbeit R2

[NotYellow]

The most scuffed kitting, I'm surprised this isn't your first ever keycap set.

[Gnome]

Kitting needs work, but you already know that. I'm sure its being worked on.
I can't help but to feel like this is pretty cashgrabby with the amount of kits and poor support across them.

I do appreciate you guys taking a step back and try to fix the kitting instead of running it with scuffed kitting like someone else did on another recent r2.
  good luck, i like the colors so waiting to see if price pleases me aswell.

[pixelpusher]

Looks too much like GMK Symbiote.  Pass 

[J3ff_Leopard]

Why don't people like the kitting? I'm pretty sure the base can cover literally every board I own. Only additional thing I'd pick up is the R5 kit. Is this a thing where their acrylic stacked Alice doesn't get perfect support?

[hali]

Why don't people like the kitting? I'm pretty sure the base can cover literally every board I own. Only additional thing I'd pick up is the R5 kit. Is this a thing where their acrylic stacked Alice doesn't get perfect support?

It's a thing that results in the financial defilement (or lost purchase) of anybody who uses ISO, 660, or F13.

[dxxbox]

Please, stop IC, go GB directly.

[dudewth]

I’m ready. Let’s do it