Author Topic: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations  (Read 91440 times)

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Offline erw

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #400 on: Fri, 08 June 2012, 19:30:13 »
Hey, I've been out of the loop for a while. Just handed in my thesis :yo:

How's progress on the non-SP tall keys? :pizza:
Kinesis Advantage LF (MX Red), Kinesis Advantage (MX Brown), Ergodox (MX Red), Colemak

Offline Input Nirvana

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #401 on: Sat, 09 June 2012, 00:22:28 »
You've been gone quite a while...I figured you took a trip to the South Pacific and hooked up with a native girl :)

We've been trying to get 2 options:
1) SP keys (available in ABS or PBT)....these are available.
2) Taller non-SP keys (in either ABS and PBT)....I had several sources that confirmed they could not do all the keys, was waiting for a couple more answers....then I had some serious life issues cropped up the 3rd week of April that brought almost everything to an absolute stop :(

Kinesis has a few sets they found of ABS BLACK with BLUE home row keys that are taller without labels (blank) for $40. If I could afford it, I would buy one set, but it's not a prudent purchase for me at this time. I'm in debt.

My bigger desire is to get keys in PBT and hopefully that are taller than the SP keys. But, if not available, I'll settle for the shorter SP keys made of PBT. The only drawback is that the key set pricing in ABS or PBT is very expensive unless you buy many sets. :(

I may be able to get involved again to try and source the taller keys (we know they are made in ABS) and maybe even PBT...our keyboards and fingers deserve it. But I don't know when I'll be able to do this, maybe towards the end of the year, so if someone wants to pick up where it's been left off....go for it.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline erw

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #402 on: Sat, 09 June 2012, 05:52:27 »
Quote from: input nirvana;610142
You've been gone quite a while...I figured you took a trip to the South Pacific and hooked up with a native girl :)

We've been trying to get 2 options:
1) SP keys (available in ABS or PBT)....these are available.
2) Taller non-SP keys (in either ABS and PBT)....I had several sources that confirmed they could not do all the keys, was waiting for a couple more answers....then I had some serious life issues cropped up the 3rd week of April that brought almost everything to an absolute stop :(


Sorry to hear, man. I hope things are better :hug:

Quote from: input nirvana;610142

Kinesis has a few sets they found of ABS BLACK with BLUE home row keys that are taller without labels (blank) for $40. If I could afford it, I would buy one set, but it's not a prudent purchase for me at this time. I'm in debt.

My bigger desire is to get keys in PBT and hopefully that are taller than the SP keys. But, if not available, I'll settle for the shorter SP keys made of PBT. The only drawback is that the key set pricing in ABS or PBT is very expensive unless you buy many sets. :(

I may be able to get involved again to try and source the taller keys (we know they are made in ABS) and maybe even PBT...our keyboards and fingers deserve it. But I don't know when I'll be able to do this, maybe towards the end of the year, so if someone wants to pick up where it's been left off....go for it.



Quote from: boli;547827
But do you think Weyman from WASDkeyboards would even laser key caps we bought from somewhere else? Last I heard he wouldn't do it because of "could be lost during shipment" concerns. Also since he'll be offering PBT keys in a few months he might tell us to wait... (he has not replied to my last few mails so I'm not even trying to ask).


I see WASD is not planning PBT in the near future:

Quote from: wasdkeyboards;433197
Frequently requested, but not planned
- PBT (currently unable to find a manufacturer with a reasonable price)


so maybe he would how be willing to order, say, 50 sets at $28.75 from SP, and then laser them? But I guess they all have to be the same color, then.
Kinesis Advantage LF (MX Red), Kinesis Advantage (MX Brown), Ergodox (MX Red), Colemak

Offline Input Nirvana

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #403 on: Sat, 09 June 2012, 10:41:59 »
I'll try to get up to speed on this topic again. I can't believe this, but I've forgotten what happened and what the status was. I will do this soon.

I think I was unable to find all of the 'taller' keys in ABS. Kinesis buys them from a broker in Taiwan...not direct from a manufacturer.

I contacted 2 people on GH about 'taller' PBT, one can't supply all the keys, the other didn't follow up after a couple messages...my guess is they can't do it either.

Boli participated in group buy 4, which I've always been confused with...it's a combination of group buy 3 and 4....???? Supposedly 7bit said the keys were going to be blank doubleshots....? I think Boli was going to verify at some point...but I don't think he has gotten them yet? That deal is a mystery to me.

BOTTOM LINE FOR BLANKS AT THIS TIME:
-ABS short-available from SP
-PBT short-available from SP
-ABS tall-we know they are made, don't know who (a few sets are available from Kinesis for $40)
-PBT tall-we don't know they are all made.
-DOUBLESHOT ABS-allegedly available
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline boli

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #404 on: Sun, 10 June 2012, 06:50:28 »
The group buy 4 stuff wasn't shipped yet, but those blanks (1.25 unit wide key caps for the outer edges of the Kinesis Advantage) are very expensive because of the low volume: $4 for the number row and $3 for other rows, each! (so $26 for just 8 key caps)

BTW all of the group buy round 4 key caps are from SP, and SP doesn't make double shot blanks.

If I wanted a blank set I'd buy one of the few Kinesis set left (and recommend everyone who'd like blanks to get one while it lasts), can't beat the price and perfect fit.

Alas, I'm hooked to custom lasered key caps by now, so I'm waiting for PBT keys from WASD, whenever that may happen. In the mean time stuff like Diablo 3 and R/C helis keep spare time at a minimum. :P
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 June 2012, 06:53:55 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Input Nirvana

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #405 on: Sun, 10 June 2012, 13:46:32 »
AHA! Thanks for that crucial info Boli!

Still didn't ship? The longest group buy in history? LOL
NO doubleshot blanks.
Keys from SP so they will be the shorter keys (if black, it doesn't really matter since you see between the keys less).

Thanks for the insight/info.

Yes, I'm so tempted to get a set of blanks, it's just so easy, so affordable.
1) just a bad time for me to spend even $40 (I sort of want 2 sets so $80 if I was so bold)
2) really want PBT
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 June 2012, 13:57:11 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline dorkvader

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #406 on: Mon, 11 June 2012, 09:40:02 »
Quote from: input nirvana;610847
NO doubleshot blanks.
Wanting Doubleshot blank keycaps is kind of a joke, as there is no practical difference to a normal blank keycap (except the underside has the potential to be a different colour) and it is considerably more expensive to produce them. As far as I know, they only exist on keyboards that had all doubleshot keys and one blank one (where it kind of makes sense) and possibly devlin.

So, I only want some doubleshot blanks for the extreme irony of it. In my opinion, it's not a big deal.

Offline Input Nirvana

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #407 on: Mon, 11 June 2012, 13:38:19 »
I agree. I didn't WANT doubleshot blanks, but was told that was part of a group buy.

It's now a dead issue.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline erw

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #408 on: Tue, 12 June 2012, 08:34:53 »
I just ordered a full replacement set from WASD with my Danish Colemak layout and a bold retro look. Can't wait to get it!!
Kinesis Advantage LF (MX Red), Kinesis Advantage (MX Brown), Ergodox (MX Red), Colemak

Offline iMav

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #409 on: Tue, 12 June 2012, 08:46:36 »
Quote from: erw;611946
I just ordered a full replacement set from WASD with my Danish Colemak layout and a bold retro look. Can't wait to get it!!
WASD sells a complete Kinesis Advantage keycap set?

Offline erw

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #410 on: Tue, 12 June 2012, 09:05:45 »
Quote from: iMav;611950
WASD sells a complete Kinesis Advantage keycap set?


No (not yet :-)

I used the replacements discussed in this thread: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23446-kinesis-advantage-keycap-replacement-limitations&p=477340&viewfull=1#post477340

Specifically, all eight 1x1.25 side keys are R1 (instead of three R2 and one R4), the eight home keys are R2 (instead of sphericals), and -- the only actual issue -- the four modifiers are R4 instead of the fabled R5 which has recently turned out to not be a custom Kinesis creation, it's just that WASD doesn't have it.
Kinesis Advantage LF (MX Red), Kinesis Advantage (MX Brown), Ergodox (MX Red), Colemak

Offline Input Nirvana

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kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #411 on: Tue, 12 June 2012, 10:11:10 »
Quote from: erw;611955
No (not yet :-)

I used the replacements discussed in this thread: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23446-kinesis-advantage-keycap-replacement-limitations&p=477340&viewfull=1#post477340

Specifically, all eight 1x1.25 side keys are R1 (instead of three R2 and one R4), the eight home keys are R2 (instead of sphericals), and -- the only actual issue -- the four modifiers are R4 instead of the fabled R5 which has recently turned out to not be a custom Kinesis creation, it's just that WASD doesn't have it.

Correctamundo...it's been a complicated process so far.
Eventually, we'll get another source for PBT or custom caps.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline boli

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #412 on: Fri, 03 May 2013, 13:50:40 »
Sorry to bring this up again, but I don't think we have this info yet.

I bought a few DCS row 5 black key caps from Signature Plastics for my 3 Kinesis keyboards as well as the ErgoDox (which is being assembled by TheProfosist - I had opportunity to try out my friend's ErgoDox though).

SP still have some of those keys in their ABS DCS inventory (no PBT ones unfortunately), which you can order here if you are interested.

When mounted on the keyboard they are a bit less high than the originals, maybe half a millimeter. Their skirt is about a full millimeter shorter than the skirt of the original keys, but their skirt is flush with the stem - unlike the originals, where the stem is a little bit recessed.

At least the keys are a bit higher than the original second highest keys (orange in this picture), and as such they seem to work out OK. Not perfect, but the best replacement I've used so far.


Compared to the DSA keys that came with the ErgoDox they are a godsend. I hope the DCS keys for the ErgoDox will be better, but nobody could tell me what profiles they were, so we'll see...
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 May 2013, 13:57:33 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #413 on: Fri, 03 May 2013, 20:30:47 »
Yo Boli!

Just a quick note....remember we had noted there were 2 types of Kinesis keycaps...the original white, doubleshot key caps that are shorter and with shorter skirts about flush with the stem. Then the newer, single shot that are taller and taller skirts with the stems recessed a bit. We also noted that the original doubleshots sat lower on the keyboard than the newer singleshots but maintained the same profiles. And, as a last item, the profiles stayed the same for all keycaps EXCEPT there was a minor difference with the 2 bottom rows of the key wells that later Kinesis used the same R4 key caps for both rows.

Does this assist with anything? I'm typing this from memory...

I really want to work on the Everything Kinesis article and adding the pics since they are so relevant...but I don't have access to it.... :(

Gonna swing by the GH meet up this weekend!!!!
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline uberben

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #414 on: Fri, 03 May 2013, 23:11:59 »
Hey IN!

I'd love to see that article fixed up too. Any chance you could send me the pics in the mean time? It is such a good collection and I'd hate to see it disappear. I'd love to help you fix up the article too, if I can.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #415 on: Fri, 03 May 2013, 23:54:45 »
Yo! UB! WHAAASSSUUUPPPPP!!!

I'm going by the GH meetup tomorrow and will see Mkawa. Soarer send me several emails with all the pics, I'll start looking fir them this weekend, I hope they didn't get lost with my stalker problem last year, but I bet Soarer still has them in the event I come up dry. I have located a few more that are relevant as well. I'll see what I can do.

As you may remember, we wanted to clean out the crap (I didn't intend to have it grow to what it ultimately became), reconfigure everything in a wiki-type format for ease of use...but I don't know if that's still an option with whatever formats GH uses. Can you tell I haven't been around much?

One big issue was adding in the info, contacts, links for some of the alternate mainboards that had been cropping up, and some of the talented people I had found that did some amazing work.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #416 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 01:44:10 »
Attention:
After all my huffing and puffing about blank keycaps, preferably of PBT...I have found something today that will be far more awesome. I saw it at the GH meetup in Silicon Valley.

Option #1 I just saw this key in real life, and it looks at least 10 times better than the pic. The white is really white, and the 'geekhack' is a cool orange translucent polycarbonate. I want black keys with Klingon alphabet in either the same dark orange or red translucent polycarbonate. Will need to add backlighting to the Kinesis keyboard cherry switches. Beyond effing cool!

20992-0

Option #2 The original idea to have the black key caps out of PBT, maybe with the 8 home row keys in red. I'm not nearly as excited about this anymore...
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 May 2013, 01:59:10 by Input Nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline erw

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #417 on: Mon, 31 March 2014, 07:48:52 »
I think I never posted my WASD caps from 2012 in here:

59245-059247-1

So, any news about Kinesis keycap replacements? I'm planning to order some for my other Kinesis from WASD as soon as I get my ergodox  ;D
Kinesis Advantage LF (MX Red), Kinesis Advantage (MX Brown), Ergodox (MX Red), Colemak

Offline cruzin

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #418 on: Thu, 21 August 2014, 14:01:56 »
I think I never posted my WASD caps from 2012 in here:

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

So, any news about Kinesis keycap replacements? I'm planning to order some for my other Kinesis from WASD as soon as I get my ergodox  ;D

Sorry for the necro... did you ever end up ordering from WASD again? I'm looking to get replacement caps for my Advantage and really like the look of yours in the pic. How did you order the thumb cluster? I emailed them the other day about replacement caps and they said they don't make a set for it.
Current: Ergodox (Ergo-clears) | Kinesis Advantage (Browns) -- Colemak
Future: HHKB Pro 2 | Maltron L90 | µtron | Axios

Offline erw

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #419 on: Wed, 15 October 2014, 19:55:04 »
Thanks! I'm in the process of ordering for my Ergodox, but I'll see how it goes  :rolleyes:

I took a screenshot from my order back then, so you can see how to map the Kinesis layout on a 104 or 105 key layout. The crossed out keys are only some I included for experimentation; they are not needed. They don't use the same online designer tool anymore, so you'll have to do it in Inkscape yourself, but that's probably for the better. And note that the four thumb modifiers are only Row 4 height since they don't carry the Row 5 (P1) keys, but this has not turned out to be a problem for me. I also just realized that the lowest row (with the arrow keys) is supposed to be P6 keys ("Row 0"), but using WASD's Row 1 for these has been no problem at all.

79832-0

However, the above layout needs the following remarks:

The "Enter" text on the numpad 0 key should be rotated 90 degrees clockwise to make it read correctly when mounted vertically on the Kinesis (which you can do yourself in Inkscape). Also, you need two extra keys that won't fit on the first 104/105-key layout: (1) Another Row 1 1x2 with the centered text "Delete" rotated 90 deg. COUNTER-clockwise, and (2) another Numpad Enter with the centered text "Space" (like the other numpad enter: not rotated).

I asked nicely if I could get those two extra keys in return for all the unmarked keys that I didn't need anyway, and I could.
Kinesis Advantage LF (MX Red), Kinesis Advantage (MX Brown), Ergodox (MX Red), Colemak

Offline pkircher

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #420 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 06:41:45 »
here is mine with DSA profile


the carbon job is still in process ..

« Last Edit: Sun, 24 May 2015, 06:44:42 by pkircher »

Offline m0j0

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #421 on: Wed, 14 October 2015, 15:52:51 »
I'm surprised WASD hasn't stepped up to match the R5 keys for the CTRL/Alt/Command/Win modifiers.

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm trying to get some replacements for my Kinesis keyboards with just the Command (⌘) symbol and the Option (⌥) symbol.

WASD can do it, of course, with the R4 size. I'm waiting to hear back from SP.


Offline coherent

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #422 on: Tue, 08 December 2015, 15:09:21 »
Just to echo m0j0 that I just got my kinesis and I am super excited to replace the keycaps with a set of blanks either all one color or in a rainbow.  What is currently the best way to go for trying to do something like this? I have been reading through this post but unfortunately most of the pictures are dead, which makes it really hard to follow.

Do I have a buy a bunch of key cap packs from a place? Did anyone figure out the right keys for the thumb keys? What would the layout file for wasdkeyboards look like- or does anyone have a specific shopping list of parts? Thanks!

EDIT: From what I can tell, the cheapest option is to simply buy the blank keycap set from the kinesis website. I read that the cheapest kit to buy from WASD is the following, is that right? Has anyone bought that?

Alternatively, am I understanding it right that I can buy just 2x of any 108 keyboard set and be okay? Like could I just buy 2x of this mass drop rainbow keycap set and be done at $60?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/npkc-rainbow-keycaps/talk
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 December 2015, 17:32:33 by coherent »

Offline stian

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #423 on: Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:34:49 »
The Advantage has:
56 – 1x keys (optionally including two homing keys)
8 – 1.25x keys (shift caps, tab)
4 – 2x keys (these are the thumb keys, space enter etc)

This is what my Kinesis looked like with DSA PBT Blanks http://i.imgur.com/ceaWMIQ.jpg

I'm using the Graphite set now though, still PBT DSA: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/f4Ib29Q9QEIt9mZn1MRaFlNUfIoQyErT5NJUzGzWwvvwSs7Ok1luga_ueGHnv9yDqgayYqiEc2LBiA=w1738-h977

For the blanks I ordered (I think), one normal set, and then ordered single pieces for the missing parts; I'm still using the keys from my blanks purchase for the graphite as well.

Just look at what you're ordering and find something that fits you the best. I'm guessing the Ergodox sets will be the best + extra's. The 1.25x keys probably need to be ordered separately.
I also see Signature Plastics / Pimp My Keyboard aren't selling the DSA blanks anymore..
« Last Edit: Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:41:38 by stian »

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #424 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 19:19:17 »
I worked on this 5 years ago and gave up. I've been waiting years for someone to step up and compile a PBT or POM blank EXACT keycaps match for the Kinesis Advantage. I have the original ABS double shot and the current version ABS keycaps. The keyboard types better with the double shots and keyboards type better with PBT/POM keycaps. The keyboard DESERVES better keycaps.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline hoggy

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #425 on: Tue, 05 January 2016, 17:16:58 »
Is this something we could send to Melissa at PMK?  I know we'll all want different colour schemes, but surely we could compromise and find one scheme that would work.  A blank set could be a good start.
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http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #426 on: Tue, 05 January 2016, 17:27:41 »
Hoggy, how the hell are you buddy? 🏼
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
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Offline hoggy

  •  Moderator
  • Posts: 1420
  • Location: Isle of Man
Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #427 on: Tue, 05 January 2016, 21:58:18 »
Hi!  Good thanks! You? :-)

I went somewhat quiet here and at Deskthority for a while, but I'm slowly ramping back up to gear. Kind of ran out of ergo boards to buy (that's not meant as a boast). I've found myself eyeing up typewriters, but having seen where that impulse has gone with keyboards, I'm content to just look for a while longer.


GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline glitchathon

  • Posts: 37
Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #428 on: Sat, 13 February 2016, 16:56:12 »
So still a bit confused as to the best way to replace keycaps. If I am interested in a color change, and I still want QWERTY legends, what will I get if I order the 104-set from WASD? Will the alphanumeric 1-width keys more or less be drop in replacements, if I want the legends to actually match? Or will there be a lot of keys that will be the wrong shape?

A look at the diagram that boli posted seems to show that vertically, the row numbers are swapped with WASD (number row is row 1 in the diagram, but WASD calls that row 4, for instance). It would seem that WASD's keys with legends from that set would not match the Kinesis at all?
« Last Edit: Sat, 13 February 2016, 17:03:46 by glitchathon »

Offline F2a

  • Posts: 64
Re: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #429 on: Tue, 06 June 2017, 14:05:16 »
I wanted to get blanks so I found this thread. Boli's image looks correct on visual inspection so if you buy those profiles it might work but not certain. However , they sell a blank set now: https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/blank-keycap-set/