Author Topic: The Living 3D Printing Thread  (Read 198708 times)

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #250 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 06:25:00 »
Woot!
I managed to print PLA for several hours today.. my junk filament no less.
I got my magnetic arm cups made, and I even made the main body of my gear reduction system, a near 4 hour print job. Longest print job I have run so far. Of course, 20 minutes later on another print job, I jammed the head again. lol I had to babysit and crank up the driver amperage, which meant adding a fan on the motor and driver... But it worked. Oh well, my Ultimachine filament arrived, I just have to start using it. Once I got printing, I didn't want to stop it.

The gear reduction looks great, the bearings fit, I just need to see if the herringbone gears mesh right... Unfortunately, the main gear has an issue in Slic3r, Willitprint never works for STL files, Netfabs service is down and I can't even get Tinkercad to correct the issue. Oh well, the head jammed just before I was ready to print it anyhow.

If it works, I will get it on Thingiverse, as it can be used with the Airftripper and with the SeeMeCnc Ezstruder. It uses the same bearings as the Airtripper and gives an approximate 3:1 reduction. I also have to print the carriages for the new magnetic arms, I may print those while working on fixing the herringbone gear, but I want to get the reduction done first as I will get more benefit from that.


VVP,
I did the belts that same way (figured it out through trial and error), but found that little tensioner made it much easier. Simply give the end of the zip tie a tug and it was done. I think, my belts are settling finally, though.

Also, another way I overcame slop was I added hair ties (stiff rubber bands) to tie the rods together. This took out a lot of the slop that tightening bolts couldn't. Laugh all you want, it works well. It would probably work on u-joints too. I did each pair, top and bottom then I did from leg in a pair to on leg in the next pair at the effector. So I have a complete circle from one to the next at the effector. It made quite a difference.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #251 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 06:28:12 »
when you get your novel up i'll link to it leslieann :))
First version is up (3500 words  :-X)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45210.0
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #252 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 07:50:14 »
finally got the bed as level as it will get with an indicator gauge, but i forgot to check head to nozzle clearance (or offset that appropriately) FACEPALM.

the result: 26689-0

oops.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline JPG

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #253 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 07:55:24 »
finally got the bed as level as it will get with an indicator gauge, but i forgot to check head to nozzle clearance (or offset that appropriately) FACEPALM.

the result: (Attachment Link)

oops.

Damn, I hope it wont cost you that much!

IBM F122, IBM XT F X2, IBM AT F (all Soarer converted), Filco Camo TKL Browns

Offline BLJ Consulting

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #254 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 09:24:20 »
finally got the bed as level as it will get with an indicator gauge, but i forgot to check head to nozzle clearance (or offset that appropriately) FACEPALM.

the result: (Attachment Link)

oops.

ouch.  Good thing you got that extended warranty

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #255 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 23:15:51 »
finally got the bed as level as it will get with an indicator gauge, but i forgot to check head to nozzle clearance (or offset that appropriately) FACEPALM.

the result:

oops.
I assume that's (only) the Kapton tape... Ouch.
If I had to rely on Kapton, I'm not sure I would have even bothered building a printer, the price of that stuff is just silly. I have yet to buy any, and I would prefer to never need to.

As for the head crash, been there, done that, pretty much the same exact way. LOL I'm amazed I haven't broken my glass doing it.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #256 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 05:39:37 »
Update...
First off good PLA is AWESOME! It comes out like mudd, soooo nice.

Second...
Cheap Filament? What cheap filament?  *giggle*

Say what you will, but my printer ROCKS!
My gear reduction is done, and it needs some work, HOWEVER....  Filament either goes through the nozzle or, well, there is no "or"... (okay the filament COULD be chewed to bits).  I geared it down by about 3:1 and WOW. It will just about push your finger through the bowden tube and nozzle now. I have it doing decent quality printing at almost 100mm a second using the junk filament I could hardly print with before and the extruder motor is not skipping, I even turned the amperage way down! (It is getting a bit warm at these speeds though). Oh yes, this printer is rocking now!

A little work and this gear reduction will be ready for prime time. It will work on Airtrippers, SeeMeCNC's Ezstruder and pretty much anywhere it can fit. When I get it done, it will be open sourced, but even in crude form (holes are off), it rocks! I have yet to even try it with the good filament.

Here is a shot of it doing about 100mm per second, .35mm nozzle, .25 layer height, junk filament, hair tied tie rod ends, and zero tuning on the new extruder. The blobs on the first layer is due to bad retraction )I haven't adjusted it for the retraction yet) and an odd first layer for the part. Lots of start and stops and the stuff to the far right is actually support material only, it actually looks much better in person.

For a first run at that speed and junk filament, I'll take it!
« Last Edit: Fri, 28 June 2013, 05:47:47 by Leslieann »
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Offline damorgue

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #257 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 06:55:06 »
Congrats. Could you show us some close up pics of the finished print, or preferably one printed with the good filament once you do? If I understood you correctly, that was still with the bad filament.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #258 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 07:29:44 »
Thanks! :)
Tomorrow, I will take some of what printed and after I rebuild the reduction and use better filament.

I actually stopped the print about 20 minutes after the picture. The misalignment and torque of the reduction system was enough to damage my extruder(!) and misalign the filament being pushed so I stopped it before any serious damage could occur.

I need to redo it with a little more precision, the gear mesh was great, it was even relatively quiet (due to using ,the herringbone gears) but some screw holes were off and the pinion set screw rubbed the body. It was a great first test though, I was really impressed. When done, I would recommend anyone with direct drive to put it on, it really makes a big difference. I won't go back to direct drive once I get it working.

I will probably design a whole extruder around it at some point.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #259 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 11:03:46 »
NOICE!

DAMAGE REPORT: all kapton damage on the plate (it was a very very very very tiny error), and i suspect the brass nozzles are plan softer than the hard anodize on the alum anyway. right side nozzle is still DEAD ON 0.4mm. fantastic. left nozzle looks a little worse. definitely took the brunt, averaging closer to 0.5mm (my caliper is only accurate to about 0.04mm though in practice, and probably less on the extruded filament because it's still definitely compressible)

note that as per MBI support, the extruder nozzles as of the r2x and future models are integral to the heater core. they are a press fit with way more force than previously, which is nice because it means uniform temperatures, but you can't swap out nozzles anymore. i didn't as how much a heater core would be because i was advised to check tolerances on the parts first. phone support argued with each other for a bit about whether the brass was harder than the alum alloy they used or not, but i guess now we know! i suspect without the hard anodize the results would have actually been different. quite interesting actually. i suspect the change in tolerance on the left nozzle will end up getting lost in other noise.

kapton is ridic expensive through mcmaster (in low quantities basically) but ebay has it cheap direct from asia and MBI sells a nice wide roll at a very reasonable price. 5.7"x~22y for 25$. 0.1mil not bad at all.

MBI support also feels that the the gantry forces produce up to about 0.15mm of unevenness in the center of the plate (downward) and the plate itself is specced to like 0.2mm flatness (which frankly is not very flat). official assembled flatness tolerance is like 0.3mm. what's interesting is that because the heater is quite good, you can make up for some of that tolerance by moving a bit slower, as that squishes the layers more densely as you extrude, so it all works out surprisingly well. my feeling as well as theirs.
« Last Edit: Fri, 28 June 2013, 12:19:27 by mkawa »

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #260 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 17:11:32 »
Here is the print from last night on macro... Yes, that is the paper grain you can see in front of it.

This was at 88mm per second (I checked the numbers).
Near the top you can see where the extruder itself started to fail. The left side shows the detail most clear, I'm in a rush to get out the door at the moment.


Also, while I was, and still plan on making a universal gear reduction, the Berry Tripper his is pretty close to what I had planned for my own version. I'll be printing off the last parts I Need later tonight.

For those with direct drive, make one of these, and set steps per mm to 340 (should get you within 1mm)
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Offline kmiller8

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #261 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 22:47:16 »


It begins :D

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #262 on: Sat, 29 June 2013, 00:55:21 »
I found out that last night I was printing with a loose belt (I'm working on better tensioners) and my heated bed was sliding 3mm side to side (screws came loose).

I just looked at that picture again,  doesn't do it justice, that color makes it hard to see.
« Last Edit: Sat, 29 June 2013, 00:59:22 by Leslieann »
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Offline kmiller8

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #263 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 20:14:53 »
I printed a sheep :D



This is me testing 50 micron print level, it came out pretty good for one of my first prints, and especially my first print of this layer size with my machine.

Offline __red__

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #264 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 20:21:07 »
Awesome guys, wish I hadn't been away so long so I could have commented as this went.

I print PLA at 220mm/s but at ridiculously thin layers so it still takes a while.


__red__

Offline BLJ Consulting

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #265 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 20:48:31 »
How thin is ridiculously thin?
« Last Edit: Sun, 30 June 2013, 23:41:53 by BLJ Consulting »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #266 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 21:10:12 »
Interesting thing about printers...
Switch two wires and suddenly everything prints mirrored (don't ask!  :rolleyes:)

So I got my modded Berry Tripper extruder printed in PLA (I redesigned it to use a larger bearing i had on hand)... and forced the bearing in a little tight and SNAP! Next version... I redid it, and all went well, except I switched to ABS, and my temps were a tad low, and while assembling it, it delaminated some (still usable though). GRRRRRR I (stupidly) went to the Ultimachine PLA and didn't test for optimal temps. Something I did with their PLA. These are near 3 hour prints only to see them bad in 5 minutes. So I took another, reinforced it, and got my ABS temps right this time, with luck it will come out right.

The new extruder sounds like a drowning cat when it retracts. LOL But it works great. No more direct drive for me. Currently printing at .2mm without a complaint from it and running nice and cool. I got to see what .1mm is like the other night... Very smooth.


A note about Ultimachine filament, I found a few others using it locally the other night. All feel the same way I do about it, it's fantastic stuff. Also, if you live in the central US, it usually arrives in 1-2 days.
« Last Edit: Sun, 30 June 2013, 21:12:22 by Leslieann »
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Offline vvp

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #267 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 05:43:28 »
Nice, and my filament went from good stable 1.7 mm to 1.61 mm, I guess at the end of the spool it will be like a sewing thread :) It is probably a good idea to check filament diameter each day before printing.

Also I tried the latest Marlin firmware from https://github.com/jcrocholl/Marlin.git (2013-06-11 22:33:58) and it does not work well. Movement is jerky around the center of the heatbed.

Uff, and I found that it is hard to make the first layer stick if its layer height it lower than 0.2 mm. I read many times things like: "Make first layer thin to make it stick." It looks like it may be true but there is a lower limit. This was ABS @ 230°C on kapton tape on glass @ 110°C.

Did any of you try sandblasted glass?

Ridiculously thin (and also slow) is 0.025 :) http://richrap.blogspot.sk/2012/01/slic3r-is-nicer-part-3-how-low-can-you.html

Offline Tym

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #268 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 06:19:38 »
Could you guys 3D print another 3D printer?
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline damorgue

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #269 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 06:44:58 »
Could you guys 3D print another 3D printer?

That is the idea of several of them. None of them can be printed entirely of course. There are many mechanical parts which require metal, higher tolerances and such but where many parts can be printed after you have bought a base kit.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #270 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 06:45:25 »
have been avoiding glass (yes even pyrex) for its horrible heat conductivity.

red! what are you printing on? hackerspace printer or your own? hooray! another inductee!

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #271 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 15:00:49 »
Nice, and my filament went from good stable 1.7 mm to 1.61 mm, I guess at the end of the spool it will be like a sewing thread :) It is probably a good idea to check filament diameter each day before printing.

Also I tried the latest Marlin firmware from https://github.com/jcrocholl/Marlin.git (2013-06-11 22:33:58) and it does not work well. Movement is jerky around the center of the heatbed.

Uff, and I found that it is hard to make the first layer stick if its layer height it lower than 0.2 mm. I read many times things like: "Make first layer thin to make it stick." It looks like it may be true but there is a lower limit. This was ABS @ 230°C on kapton tape on glass @ 110°C.

Did any of you try sandblasted glass?

Ridiculously thin (and also slow) is 0.025 :) http://richrap.blogspot.sk/2012/01/slic3r-is-nicer-part-3-how-low-can-you.html
I usually only go to about 95c,  with hairspray on green window glass.
So long as it hasn't been a while since I sprayed it, I have to wait for the glass to cool to almost room temp before I can pry the ABS, off even at .2 (I haven't tried .1).

PLA on my glass at 60 with hairspray is actually a fight to get off, no matter the temp. I have had it stick so bad that I had to heat cycle it in order to be able to remove it without breaking something.



have been avoiding glass (yes even pyrex) for its horrible heat conductivity.
So long as I don't have a fan blowing on it, my bed is up to 95c in about 7or8 minutes.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #272 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 19:05:02 »
thermal recovery

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #273 on: Thu, 04 July 2013, 00:45:34 »
speaking of thermal recovery, pla is bizarre and has a weird glass transition window and degradation point. the rep2x firmware doesn't handle it well at. all.

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Offline vvp

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #274 on: Thu, 04 July 2013, 03:06:20 »
can you be more specific? what do you mean by degradation point?

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #275 on: Thu, 04 July 2013, 08:15:32 »
at 230C i'm getting blobs of PLA stick in my head. my _theory_ is that these blocks have gotten way too hot and depolymerized, because they get wildly stuck in the head -- they stop flowing no matter how much power the heatercore pumps into them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_degradation_of_polymers

that said, the rep2x heatercore design is just not well suited for PLA. it gets way too hot. i've found a magic temperature that seems to preserve flow, but even this is starting to fail as the head fills up with degraded polymer (note to self, clean the heads out).

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #276 on: Thu, 04 July 2013, 09:31:15 »
i've ordered some turnkey solutions for the ABS issues, and some provisions for taulman nylon. we'll see how this goes. need to clean out the heads this morning as well, and soak the nozzles in some solvent for a bit (ideally). lots of carbon on those. hah!

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #277 on: Thu, 04 July 2013, 11:14:29 »
couldn't get the heatercores out. I bet I missed a bolt that's mounted on the underside.. crap, i did. anyway, they didn't come out like I expected them to, so i just cleaned the upper tube section from the top with copious amounts of solvent and light brushing. looks pretty clean now actually!

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #278 on: Thu, 04 July 2013, 12:32:35 »
thanks mkawa

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #279 on: Thu, 04 July 2013, 16:21:45 »
at 230C i'm getting blobs of PLA stick in my head. my _theory_ is that these blocks have gotten way too hot and depolymerized, because they get wildly stuck in the head -- they stop flowing no matter how much power the heatercore pumps into them.
230c for PLA is way too hot and will clog your head for sure, that was part of the problem I was having.

One thing I later found was let the head cool to room temp, then push some ABS through (at ABS temps) and it would clear it out.



Also, solvent will eventually clean things out, but leaves residue, meaning they will clog again soon enough probably.
This is my preferred method for cleaning them out. So far, I have yet to need to clean my J-head, but I cleaned my old head all the time due to issues. Beware the alcohol fumes, they can get you drunk or sick quite fast. It can also catch fire.
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Offline damorgue

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #280 on: Fri, 05 July 2013, 06:18:00 »
I stumbled across this which might come in handy when trying to explain something. It could make things a bit easier to point to something etc.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #281 on: Fri, 05 July 2013, 07:08:32 »
at 230C i'm getting blobs of PLA stick in my head. my _theory_ is that these blocks have gotten way too hot and depolymerized, because they get wildly stuck in the head -- they stop flowing no matter how much power the heatercore pumps into them.
230c for PLA is way too hot and will clog your head for sure, that was part of the problem I was having.

One thing I later found was let the head cool to room temp, then push some ABS through (at ABS temps) and it would clear it out

Also, solvent will eventually clean things out, but leaves residue, meaning they will clog again soon enough probably.
This is my preferred method for cleaning them out. So far, I have yet to need to clean my J-head, but I cleaned my old head all the time due to issues. Beware the alcohol fumes, they can get you drunk or sick quite fast. It can also catch fire.
heat stress of doing that would destroy my entire head quite quickly. makerbot r2x nozzles are not replaceable.

also the r2x firmware happily told me to extrude PLA at 230C :facepalm:

yes i cleaned mine out with solvent and a brush for the upper head and abs for the nozzles.

i only have a couple spools of PLA an honestly the r2x handles abs so beautifully that i just stuck them in a bag until i get further into design of the Geekhack True Polar (tm). up early so i'm going to build up my arduino uno motor shield and rotate some leadscrews :D
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 July 2013, 07:12:20 by mkawa »

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #282 on: Fri, 05 July 2013, 15:52:06 »
Quote from: leslieann
heat stress of doing that would destroy my entire head quite quickly. makerbot r2x nozzles are not replaceable.

also the r2x firmware happily told me to extrude PLA at 230C :facepalm:

i only have a couple spools of PLA an honestly the r2x handles abs so beautifully that i just stuck them in a bag until i get further into design of the Geekhack True Polar (tm). up early so i'm going to build up my arduino uno motor shield and rotate some leadscrews :D

Ahhh yes, I forgot about that, which is why so many replace it with a J-head.
Mine does ABS quite well as well, other than fumes, I have no issues with it.

i have not seen any discussion of moving to j-heads in the r2x discussions. the j-head is based on the MBI mk4 design which also used a teflon sleeve, PEEK section and then brass screw-on nozzle. the r2x heads are a significantly different design which is optimized for more uniform diffusion of heat. they are all-metal, with iirc an aluminum, unjacketed inside but pressed outside into a large aluminum block. the exposed barrel is then taped to a heater filament which is of a material i don't know, and then a brass nozzle (although it seems to have been hardened so maybe it's an odd alloy or something) is pressed either into the barrel or around it. the whole exposed barrel is surrounded more metal of some kind and then jacketed to just above the nozzle ending with a ceramic block.

basically, it seems like their goal was, "get hot, stay hot". this makes it absolute **** for printing PLA, but pretty beautiful for ABS.

the only thing i've seen people complain about is the filament retailer design. there are those who insist that the spring is not strong enough. i _think_ the issue is that they're running out of spec filament through it, as mine look plenty strong and hold extremely well. they may also be clogging their heads trying to run PLA through and then jamming ABS in without cleaning out and lubing the delrin plunger section. overall though, people seem pretty happy with the heads.

the only major changeout i've seen for the heads is an aluminum carriage specifically for running over 260C. at those temps, the carriage itself starts to melt (ack!), and all hell breaks loose. this temp is required for extruding the cool taulman vinyl filament, and is definitely unsupported by MBI (but looks tres cool).

the plates on the other hand..


note from kawa: ack, i hit edit when i meant to hit quote. AAAAAA sorry leslieann :( :( :(
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 July 2013, 18:14:40 by mkawa »
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #283 on: Fri, 05 July 2013, 18:34:26 »
heat stress of doing that would destroy my entire head quite quickly. makerbot r2x nozzles are not replaceable.

also the r2x firmware happily told me to extrude PLA at 230C :facepalm:

i only have a couple spools of PLA an honestly the r2x handles abs so beautifully that i just stuck them in a bag until i get further into design of the Geekhack True Polar (tm). up early so i'm going to build up my arduino uno motor shield and rotate some leadscrews :D

Ahhh yes, I forgot about that, which is why so many replace it with a J-head.
Mine does ABS quite well as well, other than fumes, I have no issues with it.


Update on my printer:
Switching to a geared extruder was the best thing I could have done. Good filament or bad, it will push it. It really made life easier... Except during filament changes.  Oh, and I will never buy loose 1lb filament again, what a hassle to deal with.

My biggest problem now, is the perfectionist in me. I redesigned the carriers for mine, and I cannot count how many revisions I've done, but I have over a dozen prints of the part (at an hour each) sitting in the scrap bin. Granted it's only the third part I have designed, but between finding what works and what doesn't, accounting for shrinkage, and just changing how I want certain things has lead to many, many changes. Last night when i finally got what I think was finally it, Slic3r decided it no longer wanted to properly slice it. Cura, Kisslicer and Skeinforge want to run my extruder in reverse,
ahahahaa this cracked me up so hard i couldn't read the rest of the post

what the hell?! i hope to god that's a simple switch in the config file somewhere. christ! i guess it isn't such a bad thing that they're all written in interpreted languages.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #284 on: Fri, 05 July 2013, 20:22:26 »
It seems most slicer programs run the extruder opposite to Slic3r, the only thing I can figure is that the Repeteir firmware may be confusing them, I'm not sure. It's an easy mechanical fix, just flip the wire on the Ramps board, however that means swapping the wire every time I swap slicers. I would like to get it working on all of them.


Famous last words of a 3d printer owner... "You know, it would be so easy to just fix that one little part..."  30 hours and 12 prototypes later you find something else to "easily fix".
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #285 on: Sat, 06 July 2013, 01:23:22 »
flip it in software not hardware

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #286 on: Sat, 06 July 2013, 04:47:12 »
flip it in software not hardware
If I could find where, I would.
Firmware would work, but again, that still means messing with it every time I change slicers.
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Offline vvp

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #287 on: Sat, 06 July 2013, 08:30:59 »
It seems most slicer programs run the extruder opposite to Slic3r, the only thing I can figure is that the Repeteir firmware may be confusing them, I'm not sure.
It cannot depend on firmware. Slicer can generate G-code without printer even connected. It cannot query firmware. It must be because of slicer configuration. If you use absolute coordinates for extruder then you can easily check the G-code. Look whether the E Values are increasing when progressing further in the G-code file.

The only thing how it could depend on firmware is when you slice from within some other program (e.g. pronterface) and that program would modify config setting for slicer based on the connected printer.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #288 on: Sat, 06 July 2013, 15:53:26 »
It cannot depend on firmware. Slicer can generate G-code without printer even connected. It cannot query firmware. It must be because of slicer configuration. If you use absolute coordinates for extruder then you can easily check the G-code. Look whether the E Values are increasing when progressing further in the G-code file.
Actually, you hit the mail on the head, or darn close.
Last night I found out that Repetier defaults Slic3r to use absolute coordinates, while others use relative.  I had no idea what that setting did at the time so I left it alone, everything worked, so I didn't mess with it. This probably explains why Skeinforge never worked either, I knew it wasn't extruding, but didn't realize the reason was that it was probably spinning backwards. My old Extruder was, at times, hard to tell if it was spinning at all until I marked the pulley.


For anyone looking for it, it's in Slic3r Configuration/Printer settings/general/mid page and it is a check box labeled "use relative E-distances:"
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #289 on: Sat, 06 July 2013, 18:16:13 »
quite weird. this doesn't even seem like it should exist. what does an absolute extruder coordinate represent? position on the great strand of life?

ps, 12 hours into a 16 hour build and lovin' it!
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 July 2013, 21:05:21 by mkawa »

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #290 on: Sat, 06 July 2013, 23:48:11 »
quite weird. this doesn't even seem like it should exist. what does an absolute extruder coordinate represent? position on the great strand of life?

I have no idea. LOL

12 hours into a 16 hour, eeek!
I try to break things up if I can, but that has to do with patience and the need to babysit the printer up til now. If it wasn't for the fact that I plan to rip the heart out of it tonight (swapping to magnetic arms), it would just about be ready for prime time.


I changed that switch, and swapped the motor wiring. Slic3r works fine, going to try Cura on the next print and see how it does.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #291 on: Sun, 07 July 2013, 00:34:59 »
actually i just had to swap the filament spool on the fly. i was just letting it run and realized it was down to the last few feet of filament on the spool. good thing, because i'm pretty sure it just air prints if you run out

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline vvp

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #292 on: Sun, 07 July 2013, 04:51:15 »
quite weird. this doesn't even seem like it should exist. what does an absolute extruder coordinate represent? position on the great strand of life?
I read that at the beginning they did not know what is better. Absolute or relative. So they implemented both options in firmware. Slicers added an option for this to support firmware. Allegedly, almost everybody uses absolute coordinates nowadays and support for relative ones is obsolete.

Offline Tym

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #293 on: Sun, 07 July 2013, 04:59:37 »
Question (Serious): What do you guys use your 3D printers for? Because whenever I see people showing off theirs, they just generally print random crap they don't need. Just for the fact they say they have a 3D printer.
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline Leslieann

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #294 on: Sun, 07 July 2013, 06:42:16 »
Changed to relative and successfully printed with Cura.


actually i just had to swap the filament spool on the fly. i was just letting it run and realized it was down to the last few feet of filament on the spool. good thing, because i'm pretty sure it just air prints if you run out
Yes, it will most certainly air print. More than a few people have made filament sensors to tell them when it runs out.


I read that at the beginning they did not know what is better. Absolute or relative. So they implemented both options in firmware. Slicers added an option for this to support firmware. Allegedly, almost everybody uses absolute coordinates nowadays and support for relative ones is obsolete.
This runs counter to what I just ran into and what I read in the reprap.org wiki.
Cura and Skeinforge both use relative by default, and the page I read made a specific note that Repetier/Slic3r was odd is using absolute by default. I had to switch to relative in order to get those others working.


Question (Serious): What do you guys use your 3D printers for? Because whenever I see people showing off theirs, they just generally print random crap they don't need. Just for the fact they say they have a 3D printer.
I have seen similar, however, I know at least two who use them to generate income. One is planning on leasing out his latest to local businesses.

Keep in mind, one reason you only see trinkets being made when people show them is a matter of time. Mkawa just said he was 12 hours into a 16 hour print, that's not THAT uncommon, a 30 minute print is actually a very small object. Making a simple flat keychain can take 20 minutes or more. You don't want to start a 3 hour print only to have to pack up after 2 hours. For a demo, you want something you can do fast and show results. Hence, you only see trinkets when showing them off to people. A big print on a 3d printer is like watching paint dry, and can take just as long.



As for me, my reasons for getting one was actually three-fold.
1. To get an understanding of them, my business is computers and I wanted to be ahead of the game when these become more mainstream (I actually had family members asking why I didn't have one yet, cost was the reason). While I did gain a lot of knowledge I also learned that they are a long way off for my customers. Though I still think manufacturers should be looking at them seriously.
2. To tinker. Computers, tech, and fabrication are a hobby, so this is right up my alley.
3. GH60. I couldn't find a case for a reasonable price so I said heck with it and spent 4000x more in order to build my own. Yes, this sounds rather stupid, but, take into account #1&2. I don't like buying tools just to buy tools, I like having a goal and reason in mind (this could have been reason 3 I guess lol). So yes, instead of waiting and buying a used case for $20 or so, I spent $800+ on a printer to do it myself, but at the same time gain a new tool and understanding of a new technology.


As for what I am using it for and will be using it for beyond that, so far, all I have made was a few keychains, calibration cubes and parts for my printer. Really, so far, it's done little more than consume a lot of plastic (Feed me, Seymore!). BUT... Remember, most people spend months and months putting these together and calibrating them (particularly if done from scratch like mine). Mine reached that point in the first month or a little after, I've spent the rest of the time making improvements and troubleshooting, but I'm about ready to move on. It's technically dialed in, most problems now are me making mistakes, not the printer, or me tearing it apart to make a better part that will make it better and requiring more calibration. My printer will probably never be "done", but it's pretty good at this point and about to make a giant leap forward (had a print error so my mag arms are still not installed).

Besides Jailhouse Blues shims (which I have made some failed prototypes of) I want to make spacers for SP keys so that o-rings will work, JB switches really benefit from o-rings. I also want to make some new feet for my Filco/Vortex case (I want a specific height). Other things include a bluetooth speaker mount for my MTB (I hate headphones and buds and they are stupid to wear while exercising as they cause serious hearing damage), mini ITX computer cases, a robot (or should I say another), tool holders/organizers for my garage (screwdriver racks, wrench holders), redo the control center/panel on my desk, SSD mounts for my computers, a dock for my phone/weather station*, and some Hermit crab shells (why not?). I'm also looking into an easy way to run my printer off of the 7in  Android tablet I have, and if so, I would make a mount for it (I know how, it's just not efficient or fast). I also have people asking for printer parts, phone cases and more.

Those are the easy things off the top of my head, I actually have a decent size list sitting on my file server.
I also plan on making a white case for my KBT Race, one that is low profile and made of actual white plastic (instead of natural and painted!). I'll probably replace the DAS keyboard I use for my KVM with a custom cased QFR, if the GH60 doesn't take that spot. Depending on reception, I may offer limited runs of the cases. Yes, they would be plastic, but I can do things a mill can't, and yes, my printer can do TKL cases, in fact, with a little work, I could do a full TK. I also have BIG plans for an old Model M I have sitting around, but you will have to wait for me to get that project underway before I unveil that one. I also may make a custom mouse, but that needs to be way off in the future when I have a greater understanding of cad and 3d printing as that requires a lot of complex curves.




*I used an old Evo 4G and loaded it with an Android weather station app reading off a weather station that is two blocks away.  It was a cheap free way to get a weather station on my desk.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
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Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
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Costar model with browns
| GH60
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| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #295 on: Sun, 07 July 2013, 07:24:19 »
mine is for geekhack to make **** with

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline vvp

  • Posts: 886
Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #296 on: Sun, 07 July 2013, 09:12:47 »
I read that at the beginning they did not know what is better. Absolute or relative. So they implemented both options in firmware. Slicers added an option for this to support firmware. Allegedly, almost everybody uses absolute coordinates nowadays and support for relative ones is obsolete.
This runs counter to what I just ran into and what I read in the reprap.org wiki.
Cura and Skeinforge both use relative by default, and the page I read made a specific note that Repetier/Slic3r was odd is using absolute by default. I had to switch to relative in order to get those others working.
LOL, you made me to search for my source: http://www.renosis.net/Skeinforge-41-guide.html
The relevant part:
Quote
I am told by Tonokip (a firmware author) that the reason the absolute and relative options are there, is, at the time of implementation, they were weighing the advantages and disadvantages of each mode. So both are options are there, however, pretty much everyone uses Absolute mode now.
I guess that means it is not really settled what is going to be used more.

Offline xecut

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  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #297 on: Sun, 07 July 2013, 09:31:46 »
is it possible to use it for printing keycaps?
Topre Realforce 87U 10th Anniversary Edition | Topre Realforce 87U White Silent | KBT Race | KBT Poker ii | Filco Majestouch Pink

Offline damorgue

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #298 on: Sun, 07 July 2013, 10:29:18 »
is it possible to use it for printing keycaps?

Possible: Yes. Suitable: No

The FDM printers of today will have troubles with getting a good enough  stem mount as well as create a nice surface. If you treat the parts after printing, for instance with acetone or sand them manually, then you can get a nice outer surface. I recon the stem fitting will remain a bit troublesome though, but probably possible. SLS and SLA are far better suited for printing parts with small details such as key caps.

I am looking forward to seeing some interesting cases and all kinds of projects come to fruiting because of these though.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living 3D Printing Thread
« Reply #299 on: Sun, 07 July 2013, 14:19:22 »
the cruciform should really be low pressure molded and pressure fit into a circular housing in the printed cap. reliable cruciforms are possible with FFM machines, but with current designs, the rest of the keycap design interferes too much with a high detail bit in the center of the object.. gcode compilers will have a much easier time printing these in two pieces or, since the cruciform is always exactly the same, a precise mold can be made and the stem and cruciform bonded to the cap after the fact.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.