Author Topic: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?  (Read 12188 times)

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Offline davkol

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 07:19:40 »
I'm curious to learn what sorts of things folks want to do on OS X that the OS does not allow. If you've encountered problems, could you elaborate?
One thing I like about OS X is that many developers have written handy utilities for it. Little shortcuts or optimizations to make certain tasks a little smoother.
My current favorite is Spectacle http://spectacleapp.com which enables powerful window management shortcuts. It's great.
lol

Such "powerful" window management is present in basically any modern window manager for X.Org out of the box, and it can be easily replaced by an actually powerful wm, such as XMonad. The same thing about panels and other DE components.

Even something as stupid as APT for RPM works better than Homebrew IME, not to mention stock macintrash "software management".

There are plenty of Windows-like, often proprietary, utils and approaches that are the exact opposite of Unix philosophy. For example, the difference in something as simple as device representation is striking.

Locked-in environment altogether. The licensing policy on top of that.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 09:10:45 »
I like my Macbook for the hardware design. I could care less about OSX either way. I can use Windows or [insert Linux distro here] just as easily. But the design of the Mac just looks and feels sexy.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 22:37:57 »
I have reached the stage where I believe an OS should just do its job and get out of the way so you can run your application/s.

Windows does not do that for me - I am constantly fighting it to get simple things to work.  UI design is horrible.  User controls are horrible.  There is little consistency, even across Microsoft applications.

Linux generally has far too many configuration options and consists of different software, written independently by different groups, trying to work together to make one system, and still seems a bit fragile, although Linux on the desktop is improving.  Although the Linux kernel is stable, various apps crash or won't work together quite often.  There is generally good UI consistency within one UI framework, but there are so many frameworks (GNOME, KDE and XFCE just to name three) that different apps usually look different.

Mac Just Works (tm).  There are not that many configuration options, and it looks and works acceptably well out of the box.  It works as I expect, and pretty much gets out of the way so I can do my work.  Most common software is available, mostly outside of the Apple store, but that's fine by me.  The hardware and OS are all created by Apple, and work very well together.  As stable as - only had a couple of OS crashes in more than 6 years.  Pretty much every Mac app looks and works the same (with the exception of those still using X).
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline bueller

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 22:53:00 »
Use a PC at home for gaming and home theater purposes but my daily driver for work and messing around is a Macbook and I'm very happy with it. OSX is a pain in the ass sometimes but the build quality is second to none. They are pricey though, I wouldn't be using one if work didn't pay for it.
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Offline 1o57

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 22:53:16 »
It used to be that the thinkpad was a tank of a laptop - then lenovo took over the line and started giving us 'value add' with them...

Now it's hard to beat the build quality of a macbook pro-  and these days OS is less of an issue- Fusion runs really well.  The ability to virtualize has really changed the game in many areas, not the least of which is dev environment vs host os...

The mac mini was a great machine, but now you can get so much more computing power in things like the new NUCs that it almost doesn't make sense to get a mini (unless you are doing it for the sake of OSX). 

The nice thing about OSX is the hybrid-mach kernel, so you can out of the box utilize many of the benefits of a *NIX system. 

 

Offline rsadek

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #55 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 22:55:26 »
I agree with rowdy on all these points. Exactly right!
Linux is great for certain things and miserable for others. Using it where it shines, I'm happy; but anything else is a misery.
Re window managers, davkol, I think you are right. I interpreted the conversation was more directed toward end users seeking slightly advanced functionality. For that spectacle is great. If we are talking advanced users, I missed that entirely. Windows offers little there which was the point of comparison.

Ultimately I want the computer to help me do my work and otherwise be out of the way. In my experience Mac does that, Linux doesn't, and Windows actively thwarts my efforts :)
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Offline bueller

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #56 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 22:56:31 »
The nice thing about OSX is the hybrid-mach kernel, so you can out of the box utilize many of the benefits of a *NIX system. 

This is actually a huge factor for me that I often forget about, back when I was a sole Windows user I always had to keep a live CD or thumb drive around with Linux on it just for those weird tasks but now that I'm on OSX it's not necessary as I can do most things natively.
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Offline Blaise170

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #57 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 22:59:42 »
I have reached the stage where I believe an OS should just do its job and get out of the way so you can run your application/s.

Windows does not do that for me - I am constantly fighting it to get simple things to work.  UI design is horrible.  User controls are horrible.  There is little consistency, even across Microsoft applications.

Linux generally has far too many configuration options and consists of different software, written independently by different groups, trying to work together to make one system, and still seems a bit fragile, although Linux on the desktop is improving.  Although the Linux kernel is stable, various apps crash or won't work together quite often.  There is generally good UI consistency within one UI framework, but there are so many frameworks (GNOME, KDE and XFCE just to name three) that different apps usually look different.

Mac Just Works (tm).  There are not that many configuration options, and it looks and works acceptably well out of the box.  It works as I expect, and pretty much gets out of the way so I can do my work.  Most common software is available, mostly outside of the Apple store, but that's fine by me.  The hardware and OS are all created by Apple, and work very well together.  As stable as - only had a couple of OS crashes in more than 6 years.  Pretty much every Mac app looks and works the same (with the exception of those still using X).

Personally never had that experience. I fight with OSX on a day to day basis as that tends to be brought into IT way more than Win machines. Now that OSX is mainstream, there is also the issue of Mac malware which is far harder to remove on OSX than on Windows. Everyone's mileage will vary though. I do all of my programming on Windows and use Cygwin for tasks that Windows isn't suited for. For the average user, that may not be as nice, but then again, basic users probably won't be programming anyways. Again, YMMV, but most of the CS department at my university prefers Windows/Linux as Mac OSX makes many tasks harder to do (at least for them). Some people can't stand programming in anything but OSX though, and that's okay.
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Offline dndlmx

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #58 on: Sun, 14 June 2015, 01:14:38 »
I think they're well-designed, displays and trackpads are nice, I'm always having "hey thats a good idea" moments with the Mac interface.  And it's a Unix box, guy!

Offline Coreda

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #59 on: Sun, 14 June 2015, 01:19:18 »
Oh SH1T, is this for real, can you actually buy it from Apple now?

Oh, that thing I posted was someone mod project of a Macbook air. You can read some about it here.

It's only a render, nothing material. It's a lovely re-imagining in the classic Mac style.

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 15 June 2015, 11:29:54 »
That said, I'll hold on to my Mac mini that I have until it explodes. I can upgrade RAM and HDD. I feel like Apple has blessed me for that right.

Which Mac Mini model do you have?  I'm thinking of getting an older one to use as a beater Mac, but I'm curious which generation you have that you enjoy.

Offline cheddarbek

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 04 July 2015, 03:02:14 »
I'm thinking of getting an older one to use as a beater Mac, but I'm curious which generation you have that you enjoy.

I'd say the Late 2012 is the Mini to buy. It's the last generation with a fair amount of power, and the ability to be upgraded.

The current 2014 machine has a gimped CPU, and if I remember right, the ram is now soldered on it too. The 2012 product can be easily upgraded to run with a second HDD, and has upgradable memory slots as well.
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Offline henz

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #62 on: Sat, 04 July 2015, 04:39:12 »
I'm thinking of getting an older one to use as a beater Mac, but I'm curious which generation you have that you enjoy.

I'd say the Late 2012 is the Mini to buy. It's the last generation with a fair amount of power, and the ability to be upgraded.

The current 2014 machine has a gimped CPU, and if I remember right, the ram is now soldered on it too. The 2012 product can be easily upgraded to run with a second HDD, and has upgradable memory slots as well.

the older macbooks pro were better idd, now the ram is soldered to the mb. My friend has a new one and i have got a old one(2013 model i think) :)

Offline cakewizard

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 04 July 2015, 05:33:51 »
I work in professional audio... support for audio in Windows is still pants, and the software options for GNU/Linux are lacking to say the least.

I'm also a big *nix user, so having a properly supported *nix environment is fantastic.

The offerings in recent years have been pretty mediocre, but I'm a year into a laptop I'll own for five years, so I'm not complaining that much. Excited for El Cap / iOS9.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 04 July 2015, 06:47:34 »
I'm thinking of getting an older one to use as a beater Mac, but I'm curious which generation you have that you enjoy.

I'd say the Late 2012 is the Mini to buy. It's the last generation with a fair amount of power, and the ability to be upgraded.

The current 2014 machine has a gimped CPU, and if I remember right, the ram is now soldered on it too. The 2012 product can be easily upgraded to run with a second HDD, and has upgradable memory slots as well.

This.

For a while there were a lot of 2012 Mac minis on the refurb store as many who bought one returned it in and presumably got the 2014 model.

Now the refurb store is empty of 2012 Mac minis and full of 2014 ones as people realised their mistakes.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 05 July 2015, 17:35:50 »
I have a badass MacBook Pro and I use my PC 99% of the time.

Offline nova779

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #66 on: Sun, 05 July 2015, 17:39:26 »
I use my MacBook for school, I mainly just like the gestures of the touch-pad and the multiple work spaces. it gives the feeling of having multiple monitors without actually having multiple monitors.

Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 05 July 2015, 17:41:06 »
I use my MacBook for school, I mainly just like the gestures of the touch-pad and the multiple work spaces. it gives the feeling of having multiple monitors without actually having multiple monitors.

Yeah I only use it when I need a laptop, I like the build of macbooks and the AC Adapter plugin.

Offline iMav

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 05 July 2015, 18:11:49 »
I'm more of a UNIX guy than a Mac guy.  I had absolutely no interest in the Mac OS prior to OS X.  Now, it's a great UI over a sane OS.  Easy enough for a complete novice with all the command line goodness to satisfy the geeks as well.  Add tons of third party commercial software support and sexy design and what's not to like?

I bought a couple of 13.3" cMBP's a few years back...as we knew they'd be the last ones with decent upgradeability (one for the wife and one for me).  Both are still running strong...

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Offline rowdy

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 06 July 2015, 06:01:44 »
I'm more of a UNIX guy than a Mac guy.  I had absolutely no interest in the Mac OS prior to OS X.  Now, it's a great UI over a sane OS.  Easy enough for a complete novice with all the command line goodness to satisfy the geeks as well.  Add tons of third party commercial software support and sexy design and what's not to like?

I bought a couple of 13.3" cMBP's a few years back...as we knew they'd be the last ones with decent upgradeability (one for the wife and one for me).  Both are still running strong...

(Attachment Link)

It would be the 16GB RAM that makes them still useable :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #70 on: Thu, 09 July 2015, 16:05:18 »
I'm thinking of getting an older one to use as a beater Mac, but I'm curious which generation you have that you enjoy.

I'd say the Late 2012 is the Mini to buy. It's the last generation with a fair amount of power, and the ability to be upgraded.

The current 2014 machine has a gimped CPU, and if I remember right, the ram is now soldered on it too. The 2012 product can be easily upgraded to run with a second HDD, and has upgradable memory slots as well.

This.

For a while there were a lot of 2012 Mac minis on the refurb store as many who bought one returned it in and presumably got the 2014 model.

Now the refurb store is empty of 2012 Mac minis and full of 2014 ones as people realised their mistakes.

Good to know, thanks for the responses guys.  :)  I did end up grabbing a nice deal on an old Macbook Air (thanks to JD <3 ) to play around with the OS, which has been great.  My only other Mac is from 1994, so there have been a few improvements.  :))

Long term I definitely would like to get a Mac Mini as well though.   :thumb:

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 09 July 2015, 20:03:05 »
Mac users, consciously or unconsciously often mention the idea of the machine lasting, as if it's a rare thing for a PC laptop to last 5 years. Go ask people with higher end systems how old their notebooks are.  My Sony is 8 years old, my mom's netbook is probably 5. The Asus I got today from a customer (needs a new drive) is 5 years old. I see LOTS of 5, 6 and 7 year old computers that have never been broken open. I even recently donated a 10 year old Sony to a local hackerspace, it still ran great. The problem is Mac people love comparing theirs to low end Acer, HP, etc...  The number one thing that kills old pc's is the hard drive, same ones that are in Macs.  So why don't people keep PC's as long? Because it's often almost as much to fix the PC as it is to buy another.  When the drive in your $1500 Mac (still valued at $800) goes bad, you fix it. When the drive in your 2 year old $300 crapbox (worth $100) fails, you go buy another $300 crapbox. It's not that it's less reliable or less prone to damage, it's just more disposable, though one could argue newer Macs are becoming expensive disposables.

Macs look nice and while I love OSX from a design aspect, as a Windows and Linux user, it's infuriating. Dont' say it's because Windows, I've used everything from Apples 2's to DOS to BSD, BEOS, OS2, and more. Mac is easy to use, it's just the little things, like how Home and End work that throw me off and of course the single mouse button, which needs to die in the fiery pits of hell! Don't say "gestures", that's just a way for Apple to not have spend another 50 cents on a second button, how long before they ditch the remaining button, you have gestures that can make up for it right? It interferes with my flow while working. 

I do get how some people like the idea that "it just works", it does, in the same manner as IOS does. So long as you never stray from the intended purpose, it works fantastic. The problems start as soon as you stray from the norm though, all hell breaks loose. As a power user, it just creates lots of issues for me and I never can seem to just leave well enough alone. When I did run OSX, I was always trying to tweak something to work how I wanted and being fought the entire way.

Another argument is how they look, one could argue that the Lenovo X1 Carbon has a great look, as does the Asus Bamboo notebooks, there was also the older Sony magnesiums (which could be polished to a mirror finish), the ultra light carbon fiber Sony laptops and recently the aluminum bodied Dell's (Adamo). Looking good is not a unique to the Mac, though you may need to pay Mac prices to get it. As for upgrades several of my laptops have had upgraded processors, memory, SSDs, wireless upgrades, converted the DVDs to an esata port or Blueray, added and removed 3g service, changed colors and looks, polished frames, and on my last Asus I was looking at upgrading the screen (which can be done on some systems). On some Lenovos you can even do more as they often go several generations with interchangeable parts. I've seen 6 year old Lenovo/IBMs get new boards and processors. You can't do half of that with a Mac and even less on newer ones.

That's because Macs are an appliance, like a dishwasher. It does a job, it does it well, just don't ask the dishwasher to do your laundry. If all you do is light work and surf, which Macs are great for, yes, it's great for that. But do you need a $1500 laptop to do it? Probably not, and there's the problem. Most people with a Mac, would do just as well on a low end Windows computer and replace it a little more often, which is exactly what most users who do that sort of thing do. The same happens with people using Iphones, I cannot tell you the number of people I run into who have top end Iphones who use it for Facebook and pictures. A $50 Android can do that.
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Offline daerid

  • Posts: 4276
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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #72 on: Sat, 18 July 2015, 16:47:13 »
Different strokes. I have over 20+ years of experience (power user/development) across all sorts of operating systems.

And for my every day computing, I prefer Macs. You can have the same experiences and still come to a different conclusion.

Offline vyshane

  • Posts: 136
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #73 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 10:59:02 »
"Macs are appliances, not for power users"

OS X worldwide market share is around 4.5%. However the latest Stack Overflow survey has it at 21.5%. Linux sits at 20.5%. Data suggests that OS X, like Linux, is disproportionately popular among developers. Developer are power users, aren't they? An awful lot of them like Macs.

Offline Touch_It

  • Posts: 715
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #74 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 14:16:17 »
I know a lot of schools and such use Macs but I was raised on PC's sans like kindergarten-maybe 1st and 2nd grade.  27 years old now.  Never used them.  I have to use windows at work and I play games at home so naturally I have windows.  While Macs may very well be nice, they are more expensive to entry level- mid rage desktop/laptops.  I imagine they might be easy to use but so many things feel very un-intuitive for me.  I know windows is far from perfect but I could never really see myself using a Mac.  Iphone on the other hand I like quite a bit.  With that being said, mine is provided by my work.  If I was on my own for a phone I would probably go with an android or windows phone due to price/wanting to try a windows phone.


Visit the Typing Test and try!

Offline nothing4me

  • Posts: 28
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 00:21:10 »
The thing I envy about Mac users is that usually they have more tools to work with when it comes to design, video, web work, etc compared to Windows. Yes, you have the choice of many linux distros, but I feel like I have fewer configuration problems when I use macs. Still, I would never buy one since I cannot justify the price when I compare it against computers/parts I could get if I went with Windows/Linux.

Offline davkol

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 01:07:56 »
"Macs are appliances, not for power users"

OS X worldwide market share is around 4.5%. However the latest Stack Overflow survey has it at 21.5%. Linux sits at 20.5%. Data suggests that OS X, like Linux, is disproportionately popular among developers. Developer are power users, aren't they? An awful lot of them like Macs.
Because iOS development = money, and the rest are web coders.

A few scientists use macs, but that's because they don't want to be GNU/Linux power users anymore, and OS X still runs Emacs, SSH, Perl and perhaps some specialized tools.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 01:08:37 »
"Macs are appliances, not for power users"

OS X worldwide market share is around 4.5%. However the latest Stack Overflow survey has it at 21.5%. Linux sits at 20.5%. Data suggests that OS X, like Linux, is disproportionately popular among developers. Developer are power users, aren't they? An awful lot of them like Macs.
Power users crave powerful systems, but that's not what defines them.
A power user wants control over the system, to make it do what they want. It may be old, it may be new, it may be fast or slow, but regardless, it's going to be tweaked to eek as much out of the machine as they can. In other words, they see the computer as a tool to be honed and used.

Most developers do more than fine on any decent computer (I was/am an Android developer), you don't need anything particularly special, that said, most devs have a pretty massive ego, and need a computer that matches. Few laptops have a social status of a Mac. I mean, can you imagine a developer working on an app at the local Starbucks on a low end Dell? The HORROR!! They can't be seen using such low end garbage, it would de-value their future IPO!

The last thing a power user would run is a bone stock Mac you can buy down at the local store. That isn't to say there aren't Mac power users, but they aren't as common as you think. Mac users tend to buy a Mac because it's either trendy or "it just works". A power user will take bang for the buck over trendy, and it just works is blasphemy for a power user. It just works means that you really haven't pushed the machine to the limit.
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Offline cheddarbek

  • Posts: 209
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 01:44:53 »
I definitely consider myself a power user, but I feel comfortable using OS X and Windows. I support an office, a distribution center, and a small production center. The vast majority of the systems we deploy are Windows(~400), but we have a sizable Mac (~50) deployment too.

Other that setting up a printer or fixing weirdo Parallels issues, I don't get too many calls from my Mac users.

I will say that despite mostly working in a Windows shop, I prefer OS X.

I prefer Apple's industrial design to just about every Windows PC manufacturer, and I simply prefer the way OS X works.

At the end of the day, I can do all the same things with either platform, but I simply prefer how a Mac operates.

I find frustration with much of how Windows is set up (Control Panel's submenus and Windows Explorer's UI), but it's truly user preference when it comes to software.

When it comes to industrial design however, I have yet to encounter a machine from another manufacturer with the same fit, finish, and attention to detail as Apple. Of course, it's desperately unfair to compare a run of the mill $600 Windows machine to a Mac, but even at the premium price point there's no one at the same level in my opinion.

As a comparison my work laptop - a HP Elitebook 840 is around $1400. It is specced similarly to a MacBook Pro. 13" display, 8gb of ram, 4th gen i5, 256GB SSD - but the materials and design of this thing are horrid. The display is washed out, the track pad is atrocious, the body is plastic, it's heavy, and overall just pretty fugly. Other than the display, it's very similar to the Mac in price and specifications, but nowhere near the care or thought went in to making this machine.

I really wish PC manufacturer would really really step up their game and make their nice machines more mainstream. There are plenty of machines out there that gets close to Apple's level of industrial design, but I don't think anyone has bested them - and if they have, they've certainly done a piss poor job of moving units
The Alps cover 65% of Switzerland's surface area (41,285 km²), making it one of the most alpine countries. Despite the fact that Switzerland covers only 14% of the Alps total area (192,753 km²),[2][3] many alpine four-thousanders (48 of 82) are located in the Swiss Alps and practically all of the remaining few are within 20 km of the country's border.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 02:17:51 »
I agree, most of the big box brands are nowhere near the fit and finish.
You have to remember, HP and Dell are building computers for a mass market that fights tooth and nail for every penny. Apple doesn't. They can charge an extra $50 for a nicer finish and it won't eat away all of their sales like it will for HP.

You have to stop looking at home, small business and even corporate laptops and instead look at executive level laptops. Unfortunately, ultrabooks have all but destroyed that segment. I have seen some Sony and Samsung that compete. The Asus Bamboo were pretty well done, as is the Lenovo X1 Carbon.  The Dell Adamo might, but I haven't seen one in person to know for sure. So they do exist, they just aren't exactly common models or brands and will often cost a small fortune to get, or you may have to stoop to gray market to find it.

The Asus Bamboo was hard to find unless you mail ordered it, and the best models were only in Korea, Japan and Russia (near as I can tell, I'm trying to get a mobo from one). Sony had some special models only available in Japan, the ultraportables they did bring could still easily break $2k, and go much higher on the gray market, they often used magnesium shells or a magnesium frame with a carbon fiber skin. Samsung just doesn't have a presence here, but some are really well made with a magnesium shell, my older tablet has a magnesium monocoque body with a Wacom pen system for drawing, it was amazingly well made. Also keep in mind, on some laptops, the quality was inside, the Thinkpads have some really nice magnesium framework hidden by all of that cheap plastic (which is a bit maddening). So again, it's out there, you just won't find it in the local Best Buy on the bargain table.
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Offline vyshane

  • Posts: 136
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #80 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 02:43:50 »
"Macs are appliances, not for power users"

OS X worldwide market share is around 4.5%. However the latest Stack Overflow survey has it at 21.5%. Linux sits at 20.5%. Data suggests that OS X, like Linux, is disproportionately popular among developers. Developer are power users, aren't they? An awful lot of them like Macs.
Power users crave powerful systems, but that's not what defines them.
A power user wants control over the system, to make it do what they want. It may be old, it may be new, it may be fast or slow, but regardless, it's going to be tweaked to eek as much out of the machine as they can. In other words, they see the computer as a tool to be honed and used.

So your definition of a power user is someone who treats their computers like pets. I personally stopped caring years ago. My computers (and servers) are replaceable and interchangeable. While I'm prone to sharpening the axe from time to time, I've got stuff to build, and that takes precedence over babying a computer.

Quote
Most developers do more than fine on any decent computer (I was/am an Android developer), you don't need anything particularly special, that said, most devs have a pretty massive ego, and need a computer that matches. Few laptops have a social status of a Mac. I mean, can you imagine a developer working on an app at the local Starbucks on a low end Dell? The HORROR!! They can't be seen using such low end garbage, it would de-value their future IPO!

Tired cliches. Starbucks? Really?

Macs are ordinary machines. Nothing special and certainly no social status attached. They are so common in developer circles that you'd be running something else if you wanted to stand out. No, people use Macs because they like to use them. Same reason why people use Windows, and Linux. I don't know a single person who thinks that their computer brings them social standing. If you want social advancement in developer circles, you write, and share code. Your computer is irrelevant.

Quote
The last thing a power user would run is a bone stock Mac you can buy down at the local store. That isn't to say there aren't Mac power users, but they aren't as common as you think. Mac users tend to buy a Mac because it's either trendy or "it just works". A power user will take bang for the buck over trendy, and it just works is blasphemy for a power user. It just works means that you really haven't pushed the machine to the limit.

Got it. Power users spend their time pushing their machines to the limit. Sounds pretty ridiculous and pointless to me.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #81 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 05:39:27 »
We've got a guy from our OS office coming to Australia for a little while, and our CIO was looking into getting a notebook for him while he is here.

Surprisingly a new MacBook is not much more expensive than a Dell or Lenovo specced up to the same level, plus the Mac has better resale value.

Apple hardware is not getting cheaper, so is other hardware getting more expensive now?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline cheddarbek

  • Posts: 209
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #82 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 15:33:31 »
Apple is definitely stepping up their specs. It wasn't that long ago that you'd spend $1499 on a Macbook Pro with a C2D and 4GB of ram when all the other guys at that level were running first gen i5s and i7s.

Seems like you get good value out of their machines these days (at least among other premium price laptops). $1299 for the current 13" Retina Macbook Pro is an amazing value in my book. It's specced well enough that just about anyone (including power users) gets a great machine that can handle just about anything you throw at it.

I'm falling desperately in love with the new 12" Macbook. It's a gorgeous machine, but I might wait for the next revision when Intel updates the Core M. The current Macbook can't drive a 4K display at 60hz, so I'm thinking that once it'll do that, I'm game.
The Alps cover 65% of Switzerland's surface area (41,285 km²), making it one of the most alpine countries. Despite the fact that Switzerland covers only 14% of the Alps total area (192,753 km²),[2][3] many alpine four-thousanders (48 of 82) are located in the Swiss Alps and practically all of the remaining few are within 20 km of the country's border.

Offline Leslieann

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  • Posts: 4519
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #83 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 17:31:41 »
So your definition of a power user is someone who treats their computers like pets. I personally stopped caring years ago. My computers (and servers) are replaceable and interchangeable. While I'm prone to sharpening the axe from time to time, I've got stuff to build, and that takes precedence over babying a computer.

That's rich.
You do realize you are on a website where people regularly build keyboards that cost hundreds of dollars.

Also, you just proved my point, see the highlighted text.
It's not a pet, it's a tool, sometimes a toy. You don't rip the legs off the family pet to see if you can make better ones.

Tired cliches. Starbucks? Really?

Macs are ordinary machines. Nothing special and certainly no social status attached. They are so common in developer circles that you'd be running something else if you wanted to stand out. No, people use Macs because they like to use them. Same reason why people use Windows, and Linux. I don't know a single person who thinks that their computer brings them social standing. If you want social advancement in developer circles, you write, and share code. Your computer is irrelevant.
Wow, way to miss the dripping sarcasm.

Are you really going to deny that Macs and Iphones are not trendy? How many hipsters would be caught dead with a pc?
Macs have been counter-culture for over 2 decades.


Look, if you like Apple, that's great, I have no problem with that, a lot of people do like them for the reasons you do. I've been tempted a few times (I just couldn't deal with that stupid single button). There's no reason to get all uptight because someone says it's not a power user's machine, it's not an insult, and if your ego was bruised by that, maybe you need to re-evaluate your life.


The last thing a power user would run is a bone stock Mac you can buy Got it. Power users spend their time pushing their machines to the limit. Sounds pretty ridiculous and pointless to me.

You're going to criticize people trying to get the most from their computers on a website where people spend hundreds of dollars making their keyboards look pretty?

Did you get lost and stumble into the wrong website?
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Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #84 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 17:41:04 »
Seems like you get good value out of their machines these days (at least among other premium price laptops). $1299 for the current 13" Retina Macbook Pro is an amazing value in my book. It's specced well enough that just about anyone (including power users) gets a great machine that can handle just about anything you throw at it.

You may want to look at what Apple has done to the Mini and the latest Macbook.
Both now have hard mounted memory, and the Mini has a hard mounted processor, in other words, neither can be upgraded. I won't be surprised if in the next gen Macbooks have a non-upgradeable processor.

It also wouldn't surprise me if the drives are soon to follow, the newer Windows tablets have already gone that way (Dell venue, Winbooks, etc...).
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #85 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 17:45:34 »
Seems like you get good value out of their machines these days (at least among other premium price laptops). $1299 for the current 13" Retina Macbook Pro is an amazing value in my book. It's specced well enough that just about anyone (including power users) gets a great machine that can handle just about anything you throw at it.

You may want to look at what Apple has done to the Mini and the latest Macbook.
Both now have hard mounted memory, and the Mini has a hard mounted processor, in other words, neither can be upgraded. I won't be surprised if in the next gen Macbooks have a non-upgradeable processor.

It also wouldn't surprise me if the drives are soon to follow, the newer Windows tablets have already gone that way (Dell venue, Winbooks, etc...).

The Mac mini has hard-mounted RAM too.  I'm still waiting for a 2012 model to appear on the refurb store.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline vyshane

  • Posts: 136
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #86 on: Wed, 22 July 2015, 20:17:33 »
So your definition of a power user is someone who treats their computers like pets. I personally stopped caring years ago. My computers (and servers) are replaceable and interchangeable. While I'm prone to sharpening the axe from time to time, I've got stuff to build, and that takes precedence over babying a computer.

That's rich.
You do realize you are on a website where people regularly build keyboards that cost hundreds of dollars.

Oh for sure. I share the same hobby.

Also, you just proved my point, see the highlighted text.
It's not a pet, it's a tool, sometimes a toy. You don't rip the legs off the family pet to see if you can make better ones.

I don't eat my servers either. It was an analogy. I thought a pretty good one.

Tired cliches. Starbucks? Really?

Macs are ordinary machines. Nothing special and certainly no social status attached. They are so common in developer circles that you'd be running something else if you wanted to stand out. No, people use Macs because they like to use them. Same reason why people use Windows, and Linux. I don't know a single person who thinks that their computer brings them social standing. If you want social advancement in developer circles, you write, and share code. Your computer is irrelevant.
Wow, way to miss the dripping sarcasm.

Are you really going to deny that Macs and Iphones are not trendy? How many hipsters would be caught dead with a pc?
Macs have been counter-culture for over 2 decades.

Look, if you like Apple, that's great, I have no problem with that, a lot of people do like them for the reasons you do. I've been tempted a few times (I just couldn't deal with that stupid single button). There's no reason to get all uptight because someone says it's not a power user's machine, it's not an insult, and if your ego was bruised by that, maybe you need to re-evaluate your life.

The last thing a power user would run is a bone stock Mac you can buy Got it. Power users spend their time pushing their machines to the limit. Sounds pretty ridiculous and pointless to me.

You're going to criticize people trying to get the most from their computers on a website where people spend hundreds of dollars making their keyboards look pretty?

Did you get lost and stumble into the wrong website?

I just got tired of the cliches and condescendence. Some people defend their technology choices by talking about the technology. I can respect that. Others defend their technology choices by dissing the users of the alternate technology. That's lame. I hope that you can see that now.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #87 on: Thu, 23 July 2015, 03:06:15 »
I just got tired of the cliches and condescendence. Some people defend their technology choices by talking about the technology. I can respect that. Others defend their technology choices by dissing the users of the alternate technology. That's lame. I hope that you can see that now.
There's nothing for me to see.
Other than my sarcasm, I never attacked Macs or Mac users.

I'm not sure who or what your battle is with, but it's not with me.
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Offline cheddarbek

  • Posts: 209
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #88 on: Thu, 23 July 2015, 15:34:53 »
The Internets are serious business guys.
The Alps cover 65% of Switzerland's surface area (41,285 km²), making it one of the most alpine countries. Despite the fact that Switzerland covers only 14% of the Alps total area (192,753 km²),[2][3] many alpine four-thousanders (48 of 82) are located in the Swiss Alps and practically all of the remaining few are within 20 km of the country's border.

Offline microsoft windows

  • Blue Troll of Death
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    • Get Internet Explorer 6
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #89 on: Thu, 23 July 2015, 20:49:56 »
THERE IS NO RATIONAL REASON TO BUY A MACINTOSH. MACINTOSH COMPUTERS ARE NOTHING BUT OVERPRICED HEAPS OF GARBAGE.

WOULD YOU PAY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR THIS?


NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND EVER WOULD. SO WHY WOULD YOU BUY A MAC? TRASH IS JUST SIMPLY TRASH. CHARGING RIDICULOUS PRICES DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT TRASH. THIS IS WHY "CRAPPLE" IS DOOMED FOR FAILURE.
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Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
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  • Missed another sale.
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #90 on: Thu, 23 July 2015, 21:47:09 »
He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak ...................
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

  • The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
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  • Posts: 3025
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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #91 on: Thu, 23 July 2015, 21:49:22 »
He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak ...................

this calls for a celebration...

let's all find the nearest Mac and smash it to bits...

cuz reasons
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
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  • Posts: 21175
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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #92 on: Thu, 23 July 2015, 22:47:27 »
He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak ...................

this calls for a celebration...

let's all find the nearest Mac and smash it to bits...

cuz reasons

For me that would be our CIO's new MacBook Pro, and I think he might object to that :eek:
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline a Horde of Penguins

  • Posts: 32
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #93 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 16:14:00 »
I built my own PC and still decided to get a 13 inch Macbook Pro over the other laptop options. Anything at the same price range as the Macbook seems to have Screen issues or other places were things were skimped to improve on the processor or graphics card, the only laptop I think that really stands a chance is the dell xps 13.

(Another big thing for Macbooks is battery I think?)

Offline dustinhxc

  • * Exalted Elder
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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #94 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 16:37:02 »
THERE IS NO RATIONAL REASON TO BUY A MACINTOSH. MACINTOSH COMPUTERS ARE NOTHING BUT OVERPRICED HEAPS OF GARBAGE.

WOULD YOU PAY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR THIS?
Show Image


NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND EVER WOULD. SO WHY WOULD YOU BUY A MAC? TRASH IS JUST SIMPLY TRASH. CHARGING RIDICULOUS PRICES DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT TRASH. THIS IS WHY "CRAPPLE" IS DOOMED FOR FAILURE.

haha Microsoft.. I just got windows 10 it's nice.

Just sold my MacBook Pro. I'm over apple except for iPhones.

Offline slip84

  • Posts: 475
  • Location: Canada
  • GUYDUDE MAGICIAN
Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #95 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 18:05:15 »
That said, I'll hold on to my Mac mini that I have until it explodes. I can upgrade RAM and HDD. I feel like Apple has blessed me for that right.

Which Mac Mini model do you have?  I'm thinking of getting an older one to use as a beater Mac, but I'm curious which generation you have that you enjoy.

Whoa. I don't think I answered this. I have a 2012 Mac mini quad-core i7. Bought it for a song.

Offline HoffmanMyster

  • HOFF, smol MAN OF MYSTERY
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Re: Macintosh computers in 2015: Why?
« Reply #96 on: Fri, 07 August 2015, 22:28:22 »
That said, I'll hold on to my Mac mini that I have until it explodes. I can upgrade RAM and HDD. I feel like Apple has blessed me for that right.

Which Mac Mini model do you have?  I'm thinking of getting an older one to use as a beater Mac, but I'm curious which generation you have that you enjoy.

Whoa. I don't think I answered this. I have a 2012 Mac mini quad-core i7. Bought it for a song.

You didn't.  :'(

Thank you though!  :-*  I want to try to find either one of those or a 2010 with a CD drive.  ^-^