pointing device on a keyboard

[vvp]

Many want a pointing device on a keyboard. And I would prefer a trackpoint there too (trackball would be more precise but it is bigger and harder to put very near to your hand when it is at the home row ... and if I need to move my hand then I can just move it to my mouse). Putting a touchpad or trackball into the middle part of kinesis advantage does not look better to me than having a mouse/trackball just next to it. You need to move your hand about the same distance in both cases.

A small trackpoint would be nice, would cover the applications which are terrible to handle without a pointing device (or god forbid some cannot be used without a pointing device because it is not possible to even "alt-tab" to some control ).

CAD work: Precise positioning is important so a mouse looks a better option here.

Browsing: Well I use vimperator (a firefox plugin). It will not help with flash videos, it will not help with flash magic sites too but I'm trying to avoid the later ones as a plague anyway. Not considering flash, browsing with vimperator is comfortable and mouse free.

Window management: It can be mouse free with better window managers like xmonad or fluxbox (if you care to define a lot of stuff in apps and keys files). I'm using fluxbox with a lot of stuff in apps/keys files.

Editors: I'm not sure whetere even exist some which cannot be comfortably used without a mouse. I use mostly vim.

Why would anything bigger than a trackpoint be good on a keyboard directly?
I'm asking since I'm considering building a keyboard (I'm not committed yet ) and it does not look like considering anything other than a trackpoint there makes sense at all. And I'm not even sure whether a trackpoint is worth the effort.

[vatin]

[dndlmx]

Take a look at the "Guru" board. I don't think it ever actually got produced.

[FoxWolf1]

TrackPoint would be nice. I've seen one or two keyboards modded with them around the web, even one using a modern version of the trackpoint (with the stick of an older trackpoint attached to the top of the newer one to make it long enough). You may have to file down housings of nearby switches a bit, and of course, there needs to be a hole in the plate (if present) and PCB for the stick to run through. If only there were a keyboard for sale with all of this done "professionally" for you.

For a trackball or touchpad, there are some ways to make it more usable. If the pointing device is below the spacebar, it can be used with the thumb; the main issue with this placement is that the keyboard must then also come with a built-in wrist rest, because the pointing device will get in the way of any third-party one. In the old days, it used to be fairly common to see keyboards with a pointing device in place of the arrow keys, or even with arrows on a trackball housing done like mouse buttons.

More

This placement isn't as good as under the space bar though, because you have to stretch your pinky way out if you want to use it without moving your hand, and of course people tend to like their arrow keys.

[Input Nirvana]

IBM KPD8923 has a PS/2 trackpoint that is on a separate pcb than that of the keyboard controller. The keyboards go for $40-$65 used on ebay.

I used one to add pointing to my Kinesis Advantage, works great although I'm not a trackpoint fan. I prefer RollerMouse, Apple Magic Trackpad, or Kensington Expert Mouse Pro....but I haven't figured out how to integrate any of them into my Split Kinesis Project

Uberben was looking into some alternatives. Try a search on this site.

[dotancohen]

I've got one of these on my keyboard:
http://www.ergonomictouchpad.com/ergonomic_touchpad.php

I'll use it with my left thumb if the mouse pointer only needs to move a bit to click on something near. For anything requiring middle or right clicking, dragging, or moving the mouse pointer far then I use the real mouse.

[vvp]

Thanks for responses.

The keyboard I'm thinking about would be some mix of ergodox/kinesisContoured. If I can fit a small trackpoint between a thumb cluster and the adjacent key-well (just below 'n' and 'b' keys on a querty layout) then I'll add it. It would be used with a pointing finger.

A position in the middle of the keywell would increase the keyboard height. One possibly acceptable position is below the thumb cluster (it would be driven by thumb). But this seems to be far enough that it is questionable whether to add it at all.

It probably will be a hall-effect mini joystick with very small travel length. I did not find any trackpoint  available here for a reasonable price.

I believe a pointing device on a desktop optimized keyboard is all about position. If I cannot fit it extremely near to the home row then it does not make sense to put it there at all. I can have a regular mouse just next to my keyboard so trying to put it e.g. into the middle of kinesis advantage ... it kind of does not make sense to me.

[suka]

As a great fan of IBMs trackpoints I have been using them in nearly all my custom keyboards . I sourced them from old laptops respectively their keyboard replacements. When not mounting them in-betweeen tthe keys the aditional height required is a major issue I was able to overcome in my latest designs with a tilted key layout. I extended the stick via a custom square adaptor with a regular sewing needle - sounds weird, but has the advantage of not having to dremel the corners of the keycaps. And the additional flex does not impair movement at all after fine-tuning the trackpoints settings.

philpirj pointed out some links to alternatives here : I ordered the hall effect joystick sampler, but haven't gotten around to play with it, especially since it is really hard (impossible?) to solder without a matching PCB. Sizewise, this seems to be the best solution as it could fit right in the space of a center key. The sparkfun EasyPoint breakout would probably be worth it for the integration or testing...

[dndlmx]

This thing had so much potential...

[Findecanor]

This thing had so much potential...

The Mini-Guru again... Too bad that it never got into production.

[vvp]

Staggered layout is not for me. I'm not sure why people want it at all (except for bad habits from past). But it looks like it uses cherry switches, so it makes sense to buy it for parts only (switches, keycaps, trackpoint). It would not be the first time I bought new things just to tear it apart, use some parts throw away the rest (when it was significantly cheaper than buying all the the parts separately).

This actually looks interesting EasyPoint - N35P112. Unfortunately it has a sliding motion instead of joystick like motion. To put it in small gap between keys one would need an extension through a universal joint (or something like that). If I would need to do this I can just glue a magnet at the far side of the u-joint stick, add 2 linear hall effect sensors and connect to it micro controller analog inputs directly. This is easy. I did it for flight pedals. The Haskell calibration code to linearize input has about 50 lines. The C code to read analog inputs and properly convert them to x/y coordinates has about 70 lines.
The only alternative to this custom solution seems to be an old IBM trackpoint. I'm hesitant to use any potentiometer based solution. They are flimsy on joysticks, they probably are like that on keyboards too.

[sordna]

The best pointing device on a keyboard is the Fingerworks Touchstream. Too bad it's hard to type on it.
On my Kinesis Advantage I use mouse keys, activated when I hold a palm key down.