Let me know what you think of this brutal "Karate Kid" approach to learn TTyping

[fateswarm]

Those of you that are older might remember Miyagi from Karate Kid putting the kid doing repetitive, seemingly menial jobs in order to improve (e.g. mopping repeatedly the same spot for hours).

I thought, if a key is mashed with the right finger the finger might get used to it better. )

Now don't get it wrong, I also support all the other common  methods and I follow them but I think that extra bit might help a bit.

My current level is only up to 30WPM and I still haven't escaped the old habits yet. Basically that's the only big problem:

My background is 75WPM if I use only my index fingers. You can imagine my muscle memory is extremely hard to redesign at that high (and wrong) skill level.

e.g. I now struggle with hitting 'c' with the flipping-finger and not the left index finger etc. Mashing them on problematic areas with the right finger seems to help.

oof:P that was tiring.

[fateswarm]

I now hit c more easily with the right finger and the brutality method seems to have helped.

But I'm experiencing tons of brutality with the numbers, symbols and control keys area.

I may mash them as well but they are too many  )

[ksm123]

Mashing the keys?

You're doing it wrong!!!

Typing is not about strength but about precision. You don't want to learn how to smash a switch, but how to press it quickly and precisely.
Do not smash the keys, do the opposite, strive for striking a key just hard enough to actuate the switch but light enough not to bottom it out.

Mashing the keys is very bad for your finger joints. Don't do it.

Typing is not about hitting the right key, but about doing it over and over in combination with other keys.

If your muscle memory keeps you from learning proper typing technique, than chuck QWERTY layout out, and learn to type on Colemak or Dvorak, its different enough that your muscle memory shouldn't kick in.

[SmallFry]

I wax my keyboard... Wax on... Wax off. Wax on... Wax off.

[fateswarm]

Typing is not about strength

Well, I could repeatedly on and on.. gently press it.

[ksm123]

Gently, but quickly, and in combination with other keys.

[fateswarm]

The main difficulty are symbols and numbers now. Any advice on that?

I rarely use them so it's harder to learn those.

Though I suspect it's a matter of experience.

On the rest I'm not perfect but I've managed to do a few the quick brown fox jumped over a lazy dog without mistakes so I suppose those are only a matter of experience.

[Internetlad]

typing of the dead, bro. Typing of the dead.

Just force yourself to do it. It sucks for the first little while but it gets better and better over time. I used to never be able to figure out where my fingers were in relation to the number row, but I forced myself to relearn old habits. After 2 weeks I could more often than not type a number or symbol without having to look, and now I can consistently do it.

[ksm123]

1. Create your own typing tutorial containing numbers and symbols. I've written small script that generated "numeric" typing tutorials, the tutorials comprised of numbers and operations on them. Addition, multiplication, division and subtraction of 3 digit numbers. Unfortunately I'm at home till the end of this week, but this script is somewhere on my work computer.

2. Try using blank keyboard. Numbers and symbols are difficult to "burn into" muscle memory. Without visual reference you won't be tempted to cheat and look if you are pressing the right key.

3. Do not play games based on typing random letters. There are useful in the first stage of learning, when you are learning key positions. Later, when you are building speed and accuracy, typing common digraphs, trigraphs and words is more beneficial.

4. I have fond memories of gtypist tutorial. It looks terrible, but its "Typing drills" and "Speed drills" sections are the best lesson series I've ever seen.

[Grim Fandango]

Imo, the easiest way to get into it, is by just using those free typing software, play around with that for a few weeks. Then, when you get a decent sense of where everything is, and you type at like 25 WPM, just switch completely whenever you can afford to (wont get in trouble with time). Obviously, when touch typing, do not look at your fingers.

Simply making the switch is the only way you will ever learn.

BTW, I also use my left index finger to hit c. It is a messy habit. Once it gets in there it is hard to get rid of it. I am always amazed about how fast people manage to type using the hunt and peck method. I can type 70 WPM quite comfortably when touch typing, but to type 75 WPM without touch typing would be pretty impossible for me.

[daerid]

I hit "c" with my left index finger. That is the correct finger to use. Am I missing something?

[davkol]

Technically, it isn't (because the 'c' key is supposed to be below the 'd' key), but it *is* more comfortable on the staggered layout. I prefer to use the correct fingering, because it makes transition to symmetric (matrix) layout easier.

[rowdy]

The actor who played Daniel is now about the same age as Mr Miyagi was when they made the film.

I also use left index finger for C.

[Larken]

I don't think its a huge issue, especially when you're talking about keys between the middle and index finger. don't forget that there are times when you have to capitalize by using shift - making it easier (and also, wrong) to use your index finger to press 'C'; it doesn't stretch your fingers that way. Fyi, I use my middle finger to press c when I type it in a normal sentence but swap over to my index when I have to hold down a shift key.

Honestly, I don't care about 'proper'. Just how much strain it gives my hands.

[fateswarm]

I think to use the 'c' key with the flipping finger properly you have to hover your hands (or semi-hover your hands) in the 'proper' anatomic position. If they rest with some weight they might make the use of index more prone to happen.

The actor who played Daniel is now about the same age as Mr Miyagi was when they made the film.

The feels..

[Lanx]

get a matrix keyboard, that's more of a "forced" way to learn.

[Internetlad]

If you're typing C with your left index finger, you're doing it wrong.

I mean, if it feels comfortable go nuts, but you're still doing it wrong.

[fateswarm]

Yes as I said later in the thread it's a matter of proper technique, especially not resting your hands while typing, plus getting used to it.

[Findecanor]

I think that the most effective way to force yourself into touch typing would be to start using a keyboard with a columnar layout, such as the Kinesis. You can't move your fingers around that much on it.

[fateswarm]

I'm now 60wpm by the way with very little to no practice the past few days. That's almost the level I already had on my ****ty ex-technique of 2 to 4 fingers I was using. So, I'm a very happy customer of the touch typing technique.

My main burdens at this level appear to be 1, to shed the 'ghost' of returning to the old technique and allow myself more freely to not think about typing and 2, to refine it for avoiding my mistakes of course which is related to 1, since due to the fact I didn't start from 0, it's still rare but possible to revert to a ****ty technique.

PS. Touch typing was not taught in my country unless you explicitly wanted to become a typist so it's quite rare here. But it should be taught, and they might have started in schools now, not sure.

[aesthetics1]

I feel like teaching someone to type in this matter is counter-intuitive and can actually slow them down. If you are simply typing "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" over and over, this might be the right way to do it. But if you are teaching someone to *use a computer*, there are plenty of times where pressing a certain key with a certain finger just doesn't make sense. R-Shift + ' to create a " is a perfect example. Maybe you are trying to train them to use the left shift in this instance?.. I hope some programmers can come and echo my comments. When you're using symbols and brackets and parentheses regularly, this approach of assigning certain keys to certain fingers just seems awkward and wrong.

I type primarily with my right index and middle fingers for most of the keys on the right side of the keyboard. My left index finger also goes as far over as the "y" key when typing, and I type around 95-110WPM fairly accurately. I also spend a lot of time programming and typing emails/etc at work, and it seems unnatural to not rest my hands when typing - fatigue sets in very quickly.

I definitely feel that you should teach someone to touch-type from the start, but I think once you have memorized the layout of the keyboard - whatever works for you, works, and you shouldn't try and conform to some standard just because it's supposedly the right way to do it. Going from 75WPM -> 30WPM? Why torture yourself?

[fateswarm]

I feel like teaching someone to type in this matter is counter-intuitive and can actually slow them down. If you are simply typing "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" over and over, this might be the right way to do it. But if you are teaching someone to *use a computer*, there are plenty of times where pressing a certain key with a certain finger just doesn't make sense. R-Shift + ' to create a " is a perfect example. Maybe you are trying to train them to use the left shift in this instance?.. I hope some programmers can come and echo my comments. When you're using symbols and brackets and parentheses regularly, this approach of assigning certain keys to certain fingers just seems awkward and wrong.

I type primarily with my right index and middle fingers for most of the keys on the right side of the keyboard. My left index finger also goes as far over as the "y" key when typing, and I type around 95-110WPM fairly accurately. I also spend a lot of time programming and typing emails/etc at work, and it seems unnatural to not rest my hands when typing - fatigue sets in very quickly.

I definitely feel that you should teach someone to touch-type from the start, but I think once you have memorized the layout of the keyboard - whatever works for you, works, and you shouldn't try and conform to some standard just because it's supposedly the right way to do it. Going from 75WPM -> 30WPM? Why torture yourself?

I think the strict traditional method is developed only and solely for very fast typing of common text. In that way of thinking it does make sense to teach for the other hand to use a function key instead of the same because "it is very likely" that the same key will be very shortly needed - or was needed right before - on another 3rd key and that would make the use of the other hand beneficial, leaving one of the hands with only 2 keys to deal with (as an example).

However, it's true that the fastest typists in the world may do dynamic changes. The current winner of a competition with 235WPM, reported that he does not always use the same key with the same finger, but does dynamic changes depended on what is closer/better.

Of course, for a novice it's hard to find what is genuinely dynamic and beneficial or just a mistake.

edit: PS. As I said, I've already gone to 60+. 75 to 30 was only for the first 2-3 days. It's not THAT hard, but I understand it needs some discipline and determination. Someone that won't care to do it, won't be forced.

[sudowork]

I have a theory as to how I progress when learning a new keyboard layout:
1 [~15wpm]. Initially I attempted to memorize the layout. At this stage, I thought of typing in terms of letter-by-letter.
2 [~30wpm]. I start recognizing common n-grams or short words (e.g. the, ion, ing, ou, etc.).
3 [~60wpm]. I read ahead (internal monologue) many n-grams or words together and let my fingers do the rest, albeit slowly.
4 [100wpm+]. After practicing/just typing a lot, accuracy improves, but more importantly, hesitation goes out the window and speed increases dramatically.

These were just some observations I made about my own typing when I was learning new layouts.

[Grim Fandango]

Show Image

If you're typing C with your left index finger, you're doing it wrong.

I mean, if it feels comfortable go nuts, but you're still doing it wrong.

Yup, when it comes to pressing C I am definitely doing it wrong. Though I started out typing correctly I think. It just snuck in there. Meh, close enough, can't really say it bothers me, and I am fairly sure it has no important effect on how comfortable it is to type or how fast I type. I think I started doing it without thinking about it because it is just more comfortable for me.

The other thing I do wrong is that I would sometimes hit B, with the left, and sometimes with the right index finger.

[habitualapse]

Typing b using right index is one I've yet to unlearn completely. I also don't think I can read faster than 90 wpm.

[davkol]

I don't think it's an mistake on staggered layout (where B is almost exactly in the middle)—it actually might be a good idea, because QWERTY noticeably favors left hand, hence you'd get more balanced typing experience.

[fateswarm]

I have a theory as to how I progress when learning a new keyboard layout:
1 [~15wpm]. Initially I attempted to memorize the layout. At this stage, I thought of typing in terms of letter-by-letter.
2 [~30wpm]. I start recognizing common n-grams or short words (e.g. the, ion, ing, ou, etc.).
3 [~60wpm]. I read ahead (internal monologue) many n-grams or words together and let my fingers do the rest, albeit slowly.
4 [100wpm+]. After practicing/just typing a lot, accuracy improves, but more importantly, hesitation goes out the window and speed increases dramatically.

These were just some observations I made about my own typing when I was learning new layouts.

That sounds right according to what I experience. I can do 60 but I'm still trying to shed the ghost of the old habits. They don't reappear that easily anymore but it's lurking.

Sometimes I get the sense someone completely new to this would find it easier since they'd go directly to the deep waters of going very fast (and typing everything wrongly for a while  )).

Typing b using right index is one I've yet to unlearn completely. I also don't think I can read faster than 90 wpm.

Interesting point. Reading being the bottleneck..

[Grim Fandango]

Interesting point. Reading being the bottleneck..

Never really thought about it. May be true. When it comes to typing, I type pretty clean, and make few mistakes. I also know where all the keys are and everything. It seems however that I have kind of plateau'd around just over 70 WPM now, and I do not seem to be getting faster. Maybe reading has something to do with it. Or maybe some people are just faster than others. It is funny really, when I do those type races, I get almost the same score from sitting back and typing normally as I get from really trying. There is like almost no variation, and maybe this is why. It sure feels like there is some kind of bottleneck that has little to do with my typing ability.