Looking for my first ergonomic keyboard

[flc]

I'm a computer programmer who has always used whatever keyboard was available and I am now looking for an my first ergonomic keyboard.

Here is what I am looking for in order of importance...
1. split
2. able to tent it
3. thumb cluster
4. programmable
5. matrix key layout

I've been considering the ErgoDox but the mechanical keys, which don't seem add much ergonomic value, make it a bit more expensive than the rubber membrane type.

Thank you in advance for your input.

[kurplop]

Here are most of your options
1. Get the ErgoDox- $250 w/keycaps  It has everything you want. You will have to assemble it or hire someone to and it may lose some proficiency on a std. keyboard but probably is your best choice.
2. Freestyle or Goldtouch- $100  No programability, membrane switches, staggered layout, no thumb cluster but two halves are tent-able, the Freestyle is separable to 20"and both can be skewed.
3. Truly Ergonomic- $250  Good build, some splitting, matrix layout. But no tenting some minor firmware issues and the worst communications to customers I have ever seen.
4. Kinesis Advantage- $280 Many people here love these. Programable, one piece split, matrix, thumb clusters and contoured. I've never used one but I would consider it.
5. Maltron-  Similar to Advantage but more expensive. I don't think they are programable but have other features.
6. Microsoft ergo 4000- $40 Split one piece design, slight tent, better hand positioning than conventional board.

None of these are bad choices depending on your needs and budget.

Other thoughts- 
While the staggered layout is a vestigial remnant from mechanical typewriters, I think the matrix is an improvement but not essential.
Ergonomic solutions fall into general categories but one size doesn't fit all. Although it is usually impractical, it's best to try out before you buy. Unless of course, you want to have a closet full of keyboards like the rest of us.
 

[vatin]

Ergodox fits your requirement. Mechanical key is miles beyond membrain switch.

[Larken]

I'm guessing your choice will be split (pun intended) between the ergodox and the kinesis advantage, with those requirements.

I've been considering the ErgoDox but the mechanical keys, which don't seem add much ergonomic value, make it a bit more expensive than the rubber membrane type.

while mechanical keys don't add ergonomic value, it does make a difference to most people in usage - esp with the tactile switches which gives you feedback when a key is pressed. if you type all day, most would agree that getting mechanical switches are a worthwhile investment, just for the enhanced typing experience. though I have known programmers who refuse to pay the asking price for a mechanical keyboard and stick to their rubber domes.

For the ergodox however, other than basic assembly, there would be a requirement to further mod it for tenting. it could be anything from additional standoff screws, a cardboard box, lifters from kinesis, or even a dedicated tray each of these require additional thought and planning, and in some cases, additional budget. keep this in mind if you wish to go the ergodox route.

Personally, I would never go back to a rubber dome after using mechanical switches, but that's just me.

[flc]

Thank you all.

It think it has boiled down to either getting the ErgoDox now and just guess as to which switch type I would like or forgo this group buy, order a wasd sampler and hope that there is another group buy in the future.

[Proword]

The Maltron is now available as a programmable item, and can be altered to suit your requirements.

http://www.maltron.com/component/content/article/214-keyboard-information/465-bespoke-projects

Joe

[flc]

Thank you Joe. It looks interesting. Unfortunately, since it is one of the their custom projects I suspect it would cost more than their other keyboards.

[CommunistWitchDr]

Only two days left on the group buy if you want it.
Make sure to get keycaps with it.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox

[flc]

Yeah, I pretty much have to decide today.

The problem is I am not really a "keyboard enthusiast" and can't get myself to pay that much for a keyboard - especially one I have not tried. Not to mention that money is tight at the moment. But I do care about my health and want to start making better choices now in order to maintain it. The only way I can rationalize it right now is that if I end up not liking it I can probably resell it and get my money back.

[flc]

BTW, I've been watching the Micro-ErgoDox (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45153.0;topicseen) and I'm beginning to think that it might suit me better.

[CommunistWitchDr]

You would almost certainly get the money back. Always seems to be someone wanting one that managed to miss three groupbuys.

[natas206]

I'm a computer programmer who has always used whatever keyboard was available and I am now looking for an my first ergonomic keyboard.

Here is what I am looking for in order of importance...
1. split
2. able to tent it
3. thumb cluster
4. programmable
5. matrix key layout

I've been considering the ErgoDox but the mechanical keys, which don't seem add much ergonomic value, make it a bit more expensive than the rubber membrane type.

Thank you in advance for your input.

Freestyle2 keyboard could be a good option. Comes with a 60-day money back guarantee as well so if you don't like it send it back get a refund (just pay shipping).

It's not programmable nor does it have a thumb cluster. However, it is possible for us to modify the firmware here at Kinesis prior to shipment or later down the road. So for example, if you wanted the Left Space key to function as Backspace (or perhaps a modifier key like Ctrl, etc.), we could do that for you. Just contact tech@kinesis.com if interested.

Here are the default layouts:

PC version - http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/images/freestyle2-pc-layout-900x378.jpg
Mac version - http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/images/freestyle2-mac-layout-800x307.jpg

[flc]

How would modifying the firmware "later down the road" work? Do I tell you the layout I want and get the new firmware as a download? Is there an additional cost for that service?

[Lanx]

what is your comfort of spending?

i'll give you a reality check, if you're even thinking about an ergo board, that means you have some reasons, either physically or whatever.

so that right there means, you gotta pay money.

considering a basic mech board is 100bucks, a good ergo board will be twice that, this is how much you can REALISTICALLY expect to spend, actually you should really provision 300bucks.

why?

you want a mech board, membrane just sucks.

and in that regards, since you actually have a good amount of requirements (you'll never meet them all)

you're 3 best bets are

ergodox
kinesis
truly ergonomic

in that order

i'd only say get the truley ergonomic if you can't get either the kinesis or ergodox.

[hoggy]

I agree with Lanx.

If you factor in the length of time that a mechanical keyboard will last, the cost per day is laughable. If it wasn't for ergonomic keyboards, I would have been forced to leave my career. Probably the best money I've ever spent.

[vvp]

flc, if you are short of money, have some HW skills and a lot of free time, don't worry about a bad review and get a used kinesis contoured (whichever one). Fixing a keyboard is not hard with some basic skills. And if you get pissed at the firmware you can still replace controller in it (use something based on ATmega32u4) and use some of the great open firmwares for it. Probably all of them will be better than what is in the kinesis contoured currently.

I have kinesis advantage for 10 years now and it still works. If I would need to buy a keyboard quickly, it would be kinesis again. I considered ergodox but I think I would mind that the bottom row of keys is not tilted forward as it is on kinesis contoured. So I'm afraid it would not be comfortable to press them. I think I would not mind that other rows are not tilted. A proper DCS set should fix that. Ergodox thumb cluster is probably far from other keys for me too.  Ergodox is split (good) and has a better firmware. It does not support remap/macros yet (it is being implemented), but has proper layer switching and easy layout definition. And it is open, you can improve it yourself. Kinesis contoured is lacking at least one more directly accessible modifier key pair (Windows keys).

But since I do not need a new keyboard right now, I'm only thinking about building my own bastard child of kinesiss an ergodox.
Here is a thread about replacing kinesis controller: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37991.0

I do not think there is any other keyboard except kinesis contoured and ergodox worth a consideration. Maybe maltron. But buying it I would feel like I support an inefficient company which cannot create a product for a reasonable price. So no, no maltron for me

[flc]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I ended up getting the ergodox. I figured that if I end up not liking it or find some other solution before it has arrived I'll simply sell it.

[vivalarevolución]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I ended up getting the ergodox. I figured that if I end up not liking it or find some other solution before it has arrived I'll simply sell it.

Trust me.  You will like the Ergodox.  And if you do not, I will be happy to force you to like the Ergodox.

[yasuo]

uTron

[sordna]

I've been considering the ErgoDox but the mechanical keys, which don't seem add much ergonomic value, make it a bit more expensive than the rubber membrane type.

I'm late to the party here, but must say that mechanical keys have a significant ergonomic advantage over the common membrane type: The mechanical switches actuate halfway in their travel, whereas the membrane keys have to bottom out, which puts a big stress on your hands. With mechanical keys, you can learn to "float" your fingers as you type, and not bottom out all the time.

[Proword]

I do not think there is any other keyboard except kinesis contoured and ergodox worth a consideration. Maybe maltron. But buying it I would feel like I support an inefficient company which cannot create a product for a reasonable price. So no, no maltron for me

In defence of the Maltron and its price, I should point out that each keyboard is handmade to each individual's requirements, not stamped out by robots.  Secondly, the expense is only "initial".  I cannot praise the quality highly enough.  I bought my first Maltron in 1986, for my Apple II computer.  I then returned it to the factory in the late '80s for conversion to IBM compatible, which was fitted with a DIN plug.  I then fitted a PS/2 conversion plug, then a USB conversion plug.  This last was probably too much.  The keyboard was unreliable when running in a machine with a USB plug, but after 27 years it's still working if I use the PS/2 socket on my computer.  From memory it cost roughly $400 Australian, and when you amortise that cost over 27 years, that's under $15 per year.  I don't think a keyboard which you pay $15 for new will last a year.

It should also be borne in mind that Maltron is not in the "standard" keyboard marketplace, their keyboards are designed and built for a specific market, for people with disabilities or those interested in high volume, high speed keyboarding work, without worrying about injuries to hands and arms in the longer term.  As one of the latter (a court reporter), I can say that the Maltron can handle anything I've thrown at it, and come up well.

Joe

[flc]

I do not think there is any other keyboard except kinesis contoured and ergodox worth a consideration. Maybe maltron. But buying it I would feel like I support an inefficient company which cannot create a product for a reasonable price. So no, no maltron for me

In defence of the Maltron and its price, I should point out that each keyboard is handmade to each individual's requirements, not stamped out by robots.  Secondly, the expense is only "initial".  I cannot praise the quality highly enough.  I bought my first Maltron in 1986, for my Apple II computer.  I then returned it to the factory in the late '80s for conversion to IBM compatible, which was fitted with a DIN plug.  I then fitted a PS/2 conversion plug, then a USB conversion plug.  This last was probably too much.  The keyboard was unreliable when running in a machine with a USB plug, but after 27 years it's still working if I use the PS/2 socket on my computer.  From memory it cost roughly $400 Australian, and when you amortise that cost over 27 years, that's under $15 per year.  I don't think a keyboard which you pay $15 for new will last a year.

It should also be borne in mind that Maltron is not in the "standard" keyboard marketplace, their keyboards are designed and built for a specific market, for people with disabilities or those interested in high volume, high speed keyboarding work, without worrying about injuries to hands and arms in the longer term.  As one of the latter (a court reporter), I can say that the Maltron can handle anything I've thrown at it, and come up well.

Joe

Just to clarify, vvp was the one who stated what you quoted.