Best SPLIT keyboard?

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Hallo everybody!

I'm typing this on my old Model M (I broke another MS natural). The Model M is a pretty decent keyboard, and I like the feel of the keypress, but I don't think I'll be able to stand using it for a long time. So I'm looking for something else that's actually obtainable (so no Model M15 unless you're offering):

My requirements:

* Slightly less pressure required. After using the model M for a day I really have tired fingers. Something that's a little easier on my hands without involuntary key-presses would be nice.

* A split keyboard so that I don't have to keep my elbows turned inward. A layout like the model M15 or the MS Natural 4000. Doesn't need to be completely seperable, though the extra freedom that provides is probably good. No need for heavily tilted layouts.

* I would prefer something WITHOUT a numeric keypad. It just gets in the way.

* GOOD KEYS that don't die on me after a year or 3 and also provide a decent feedback (audible too).

I'd probably be prepared to pay up to 250 euros or so all in unless it's REALLY worth paying more - I'm a professional programmer but i'm not a collector. I'm in the Netherlands, so keep that in mind when recommending heavy american or japanese keyboards.

Cheers,
SP.

[ch_123]

The uTron sounds almost exactly what you're looking for. At $500 it's probably a bit over your budget, but there are more affordable options that others can fill you in on.

Does anyone know how much a G80-5000 costs these days?

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Try Kinesis for new or the Cherry 5000 in your price range. Most split keyboards were made in the early nineties and are no longer produced, so it will not be easy if you don't fancy a Kinesis. I don't know which models exactly have real switches, the Advantage for sure. The Advantage and the Cherry have very light Cherry Brown switches though. Closest to the Buckling Spring is the Kinesis Evolution with White Alps switches, but it is no longer made and very rare.

The Kinesis Freestyle - which is pretty much the sort of model I'm looking for - like the Goldtouch keyboards* - has plain membrane keys. The Advantage used to have pretty wimpy function keys IIRC. Not sure about the current model - but I'm even less sure about the layout. It looks pretty much like a "kill or cure" proposition.

* I'd still prefer a model that's either flat or sloping UP (instead of the utron which looks like it's fixed in a pretty heavy downward slope) and has the traditional cursor/pageup block. I guess the Cherry 5000 is closest, but it doesn't seem to be available new.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

utron has the slope you give it. But it is for freaks

A Northgate Evolution.

Talk about freaks. I don't have a prehensile nose! What are the cursor keys doing at the top?

[ch_123]

I guess you'll have to sit around till the -5000 shows up on eBay. As far as I can see, they are more common in Europe (particularly Germany) than in the US.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

I guess you'll have to sit around till the -5000 shows up on eBay. As far as I can see, they are more common in Europe (particularly Germany) than in the US.

I might just be tempted to saw my Model M in half (and remove the numpad at the same time). Has anyone here done that?

[ch_123]

Those are all PCB-using keyboards. The membranes used inside Model Ms may not take well to getting chopped up.

[keyb_gr]

If a split ergo board is not too high on the list of priorities, one could give a Filco tenkeyless model a try... the clicky one with blues would fit well here IMO. The Keyboard Company in the UK stocks these.

I'll also throw in a Fujitsu (Siemens) KBPC E (S26381-K261-L765 for the UK version, it seems), an ergo board very similar to the old Cherry models in layout but with the typical Siemens rubber dome mechanics. I like the feel of those, rather low-force with low key wobble. I guess they're not up to the mechanicals in terms of longevity but they don't seem to be failing left and right either, plus they're quite inexpensive to boot.

[itlnstln]

Talk about freaks. I don't have a prehensile nose! What are the cursor keys doing at the top?

I wouldn't write off that Evolution too quickly.  It's a pretty nice keyboard.  You'll be suprised how easy it is to get used to the layout.  My biggest problem with it, though, is that it's LOUD.

[ak_nala]

I think there might be another way of doing it with a Model M, but would likely still require two boards for parts.

Idea is that it might be possible to cut the plates to the outside of the chosen separation line (so the hammer "wells" and guides remain intact for the edge keys - one side from each board) while extending the cuts for the membranes a half inch or so further out from the plate cuts.

Then make mechanical, clamped contacts between wires and the cut traces on the membranes (possibly requiring some conductive glue to make extra sure the contacts are electrically sound and won't corrode with time) then string these wires to a socket arrangement, one for each side, so that you can then use a cable to connect the two halves (actually, three parts, as I was going to put the Number Pad and possibly Cursor Key section on separate module as well). This is if going for a separated board, or alternatively one could just connect the repositioned sections internally if going for a single case design like the Marquardt or the Northgate ergos.

A lot of work, but not as kludgy, I think, as folding the membranes, using two controllers, and two USB connections, etc. My way would be more complicated, and yet more elegant at the same time, IMHO.

If you wanted to do even more work, you could re-arrange some of the controls, w/ two boards to part from - including using more of the active key wells, ala Ripster's mod, and even cutting up both cursor inverse-Ts so that you can move them to the outside bottom of both main modules as with the M15, moving the rest of page navigation section to the Numbpad module or elsewhere on the main modules.

A lot of possibilities present themselves if the mechanically connected jumper wire idea proves out.

Anyway, I was thinking along these lines as an experimental mod, but not sure I'll ever get around to it.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

If a split ergo board is not too high on the list of priorities, one could give a Filco tenkeyless model a try... the clicky one with blues would fit well here IMO. The Keyboard Company in the UK stocks these.

Yeah, I've been thinking about those too. I'm not too sure what would work for me. I know that the Model M key pressure is just a little too heavy, and I'm used to a split layout, but I can still type efficiently on a straight board.

Anyway, if I'm going for a straight board, I wonder if a HHKB pro won't work better; it takes less space and it seems to me that needing to move your hands less might be a win, even when you need to get used to the new key chords. From what I gather, the keys on those boards are light, but I don't know if they offer any mechanical feedback.

[shrap]

Talk about freaks. I don't have a prehensile nose! What are the cursor keys doing at the top?

I just turn off num lock. The numeric keypad has all the same keys, just arranged differently. It's not hard.

[bluecar5556]

Split Kinesis Contour Classic (advantage) keyboard mod

[Rally Man]

Did you really have to spam all these threads blucar5556?

[Input Nirvana]

Did you really have to spam all these threads blucar5556?

He's an excited newbi (note post count), perhaps a GH welcome and some input, and then a follow up PM for some forum etiquette.

I know I make a faux pas here and there, I'm just so aggressive no one calls me on it because they know I'll eat their newborns.

[bluecar5556]

@Rally Man  Ignorance prevails when people do not consider the definitions of a word under the circumstances that they are adhered to.  The meaning of the word 'spam' is "Unsolicited bulk messages indiscriminately."  Please enlighten me how every thread that I "spammed" was not requested, asked for and/or did not pertain to an ergonomic 'split' keyboard by PM'ing me so I may give you my sincere apology.   Sorry for posting a link to my thread in an attempt to inspire and help people.  
Save the Earth by getting the word out demanding answers regarding the worlds largest cover-up and ecological disaster in recorded history.  Don't take my word for it as it's only a speculation that BP drilled two wells in the Gulf and one well is still leaking methane from the seabed current technology cannot contain.  Google, "BP Initial Exploration Plan Mississippi Canyon Block 252 OCS-G 32306 PDF"  I made up the last part but if there was a fraction of truth to what is being said, there is nothing you can do about it anyways.  Even if it was a valid statement, you and who else will stand up for your god given rights, the faithful US Government?

[Rally Man]

Well, you did spam, posting a message on a thread that nobody has posted anything since April of last year is kinda pushing it, isn't it?  I think your thread would of stuck out just fine by the mod skills you posses.

[Input Nirvana]

Not to derail thread, someone can PM me on this:
#1 question-Is posting in an older thread (10 months) spam if the post is highly relevant?  Or should a new, duplicate thread be made?

#2 question- What to do: Posting the same thing in multiple threads, even though it may be very relevant to several?

Obviously forums are not an exact science.

Bluecar has got skills, definitely blew out a major mod. I want to see what else he has planned. I have a very strong interest.

BACK TO KEYBOARDS!!

[cbf123]

Please enlighten me how every thread that I "spammed" was not requested, asked for and/or did not pertain to an ergonomic 'split' keyboard by PM'ing me so I may give you my sincere apology.   Sorry for posting a link to my thread in an attempt to inspire and help people.

I suspect that "spam" might be going too far, but when I myself saw your post on at least a half dozen different threads, it started feeling excessive. One current thread, certainly.  Even two.  Resurrecting a dead thread to mention your project?  That's going over the line.

People either monitor all new threads for items of interest or are searching for specific bits of information.  Either way they'll find your mod even with only a couple explicit mentions.

[Input Nirvana]

I suspect that "spam" might be going too far, but when I myself saw your post on at least a half dozen different threads, it started feeling excessive. One current thread, certainly.  Even two.  Resurrecting a dead thread to mention your project?  That's going over the line.

People either monitor all new threads for items of interest or are searching for specific bits of information.  Either way they'll find your mod even with only a couple explicit mentions.

Those are good points, about quantity of posts/threads. I understand that.

One thing about resurrecting a thread: When is it a no-no? And why? Some of these topics are not a "daily/weekly" thread in the first place. Some people pop on sporadically and/or miss threads of interest only to discover them at a later date. That's how I found GH and posted in the first place.

[elef]

One thing about resurrecting a thread: When is it a no-no?

When the person doing it is clueless, finds a thread through the forum search and tries to answer some irrelevant question that nobody cared about back when it was asked 3 years ago.
Other than that, I see nothing wrong with digging up an old thread to ask a closely related question or post some updated info or whatever. It helps if you start your post with "I revived this old thread because".

Oh wait I just revived a 5-day old thread...

[shrap]

I would actually prefer if older threads were revived instead of new people constantly creating brand new threads asking the same exact question over and over. Helps reinforce the fact that most questions are the same (and you should read the old thread before starting a new one, you are not a special snowflake, your answer is probably in there) and reduces clutter.

And it also works splendidly with thread subscriptions.

[Input Nirvana]

When is it ok to revive an old thread?

Lol

That makes sense, and sounds appropriate. Thanks!

[bluecar5556]

GH forum rules simply defines 'spam' as posting the same exact post many times without regard to relevancy.  The word spam sure does get thrown around a bit and people are ever so increasingly reliant on the search engine that makes you wait 30 seconds between searches when threads are not linked or 'bumped' so to speak.  People shouldn't over post to gain higher post count, you need a friend because that's probably not healthy.  0_0
"2. Spam and overposting. Not just being a prolific poster, but posting the same exact post many times, posting multiple pointless posts in the same thread, making numerous posts with no real content, or posting for the purpose of gaining a higher post count."