geekhack
geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: r00dy on Tue, 08 March 2022, 16:43:02
-
January - 60% O Ring Mount
by r00dy and jr2417.
Discord (https://discord.gg/SEbTvcTgar)
IC Form (https://forms.gle/6LJoZaHo5momeDSU7)
Alexotos VOD summary:
NearLucid Short Overview:
Here is a soundtest of the second version in aluminum with 6 plates for comparison:
Here is a soundtest of the first prototype:
Introduction
We originally designed the January to test some aesthetic choices, most notably the gentle side sweep (inspired by the Dalco 959 Mini) with a rounded front and back, for another board we were working on. After producing some renders and ordering a prototype, we noticed that there was considerable interest in our server and we wanted to officially gauge interest.
Design
We've become fans of o-ring mounted boards as of late, most notably the Bakeneko, Tenshi, and Moontower. As with most o-ring mounted boards, the January is compatible with a variety of o-rings and the H60 PCB.
Pricing
Base Kit: $270 will include:
- January Case (frosted pc or anodized aluminum)
- Copper Weight
- Aluminum Plate
- O-Ring
- Screws
Please note that the base kit will not include a pcb but January compatible pcbs will be sold separately. For those of you wondering why we decided to exclude the pcb from the base kit, the decision came down to the availability of aftermarket pcbs and other O-ring builds. The January is compatible with the H60 pcb and we feel that there are enough people with spare pcbs or O-ring mount builds to justify leaving the pcb out of the base kit. This allows us to provide the January at a lower price to those who have compatible pcbs while also providing January compatible pcbs (as extra add ons) to those who don't have one. The pcb price is TBD.
Groupbuy and Timeline Information
- Vendors
- US: KeebsForAll
- Canada: TBA
- EU: Candykeys
- Asia: TBA
- Oceania: SwitchKeys
The remaining info regarding the GB time and qty are TBA.
Third Revision
Here are some of the pictures from our final prototyping round of the unbuilt boards so you can see the internals, color samples, and weights. The number designation was specific to the private run and any weights without the "January" engraving were produced as one-offs.
Steel Blue (Anodized Aluminum)
[attachimg=10]
[attachimg=6]
Crimson (Anodized Aluminum)
[attachimg=9]
[attachimg=5]
Smoked Polycarbonate
[attachimg=7]
Frosted Polycarbonate
[attachimg=8]
Second Revision
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=3]
First Revision
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
ChangeLog
- First to Second Proto
- Change feet (circular style)
- Adjust weight shape and thickness
- Make screws internal
- Move posts
Case Specifications
- Typing Angle: 6 degrees
- Mounting Style: O-Ring
- Case Material and Color: Frosted Polycarbonate
- Plate Options: 1.5 mm Aluminum
- PCB Options: Hotswap, Soldering
- Weight Material and Finish: Sandblasted Copper
Layout Options
- Normal and Stepped Caps Lock
- Normal and Split Backspace
- Full and Split Right Shift
- Bottom Row: 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 6.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u
- Bottom Row: 1.5u 1u 1.5u 7u 1.5u 1u 1.5u
Acknowledgments
We'd like to thank kitkat for the weight font along with BirgusLatro, Meepergon, and adii for their advice.
[/list]
-
More pictures of the v2 prototype in polycarbonate:
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
[attachimg=8]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
Pictures of the v1 prototype with the old feet for context. Please bear in mind that the feet have changed (see second prototype for the new feet).
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
-
Is this the first GB to have a 2 month delay before even starting?
-
Such a solid thock from that case. I’m not ready to hop on another group buy, but this looks like a really nice board.
-
Looks quite nice overall but man those feet just look way too big and kinda take over the whole bottom when the focus should be on the copper weight. Would definitely prefer much smaller, possibly clear feet.
-
january for jan
-
please consider EU vendor
-
big ****in feet :blank:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Nice looking board and I don't mind the bring your own PCB approach but probably better to have one anyway. Also sad to see you want to hide the screws, I personally like them and if anything make it flush with the weight. GLWIC!
-
why are the feet so big? anyways goodluck with gb!
-
But wait its March?!?!?!
-
Looks quite nice overall but man those feet just look way too big and kinda take over the whole bottom when the focus should be on the copper weight. Would definitely prefer much smaller, possibly clear feet.
have to agree
-
Are there helicoils for the weight and daughter-board screws?
-
Sounds and looks amazing, how much flex is there in the board?
-
as someone with a name permanently attached to a backplate bakeneko i wanna echo everyone else's comments about the bottom and the feet
-
The board looks really pretty, but I also think the feet look a bit odd. I think it's how the weight is cutout to separate it with the feet that makes me think it's a bit weird?
-
Big fan of PC 60 percents! You mentioned you used a bakeneko pcb? Would that be the cannonkeys version? I am curious because that would mean this is compatible with all unikorn compatible pcbs :thumb:
-
please consider EU vendor
+1
I would also prefer smaller feet
-
you know what they say about
people boards with big feet
-
Looks super nice although I would personally prefer small circular feet.
-
I'm a sucker for o ring board
but yes, please consider smaller feet since it looks kinda out of place imo, or at least give an option to choose :thumb:
-
Big fan of PC 60 percents! You mentioned you used a bakeneko pcb? Would that be the cannonkeys version? I am curious because that would mean this is compatible with all unikorn compatible pcbs :thumb:
Yes.
Update: No longer feasible with the redesign but it is compatible with the H60.
Are there helicoils for the weight and daughter-board screws?
There are inserts in all of the screw holes.
Sounds and looks amazing, how much flex is there in the board?
There's a quick flex demo at the end of the video in the main post. The flex is dependent on both plate material and the gasket shore but I personally lean towards 30A gaskets for a bouncier configuration. You should be able to use any standard 60% plate and o-ring to suit your typing preference.
please consider EU vendor
Vendor selection is dependent on interest so we'll address that when we get there. As of right now, interest outside the US appears to be quite low.
We were aware that the feet might be controversial and we've decided to switch over to the feet we used in the Vega Wrist Rest. These feet are circular but flat on the bottom unlike your typical bumpons. I'll adjust the weight accordingly for the second prototype. Here is a picture of how they look on the vega wrist rest:
[attachimg=1]
-
New feet are definitely better. Still prefer clear ones for a clear board personally but would be easy enough to pick some up and swap them out myself at that size.
-
hype 🔥
-
This is perfect. All the boards I buy have stupid little feet. This is the Shaq of 60s.
-
thickfeet
-
looks amazing and love the idea but i feel the 60% market is a bit flooded at the moment and those feet...
maybe consider using some smaller feet that stand out less to make the weight the star of the board and not the feet
-
I like the weight and foot design.
Is there a reason behind the name January?
-
PC and Copper are like an aesthetics cheat code. Might be nice if the feet were clear instead of black, they're rather glaring on the pc.
-
Addressing some more questions and suggestions in the IC for visibility:
1. HHKB or WKL? We won't be offering WKL or HHKB. It complicates the O-ring drop in design and we're trying to limit the number of SKUs after our experience with the Paragon.
2. Layouts and Plate Materials? I've listed the current layouts that are supported by the plate. We're not sure about supporting layouts outside what's listed but we may consider adding support based on the IC at a later point. We're exploring half-plate options and different plate materials.
3. I don't like the weight design or screw placement. The screws and positioning are changing. The weight shape is changing but the engraving is final.
4. Vendors and Pricing? We're still unsure of the interest so it's hard for us to get a price estimate since the quantity is undetermined and we don't want to give an incorrect price estimate either. Vendors are predicated upon regional interest so we're still waiting to see how the IC fairs in that regard.
5. I don't like the feet. I've seen a lot of suggestions regarding the feet (some people seem to want clear 3M bumpons). We feel like clear 3M bumpons look like an afterthought on most boards while also cheapening the look. I understand that most boards use clear bumpons and I also understand if this decision is a dealbreaker for people but we don't want to sacrifice our vision for the board. We're exploring an aluminum option in the second iteration so if visible feet are a concern for you, perhaps the aluminum variant may be more up your alley. We are, however, changing the shape of the feet to the circular ones used in the vega wrist rest. The weight will change accordingly to match the new feet profile.
-
What's the front height?
-
The main thing I don't understand about the weight/feet situation is what prevents the weight from being just a rectangle without cutouts and have the feet "above" and "under" the weight?
There appears to be enough room on the top and bottom to put the feets (if its too close to the edge, they can always be reduce in size a little bit), so I am not sure the need for cutouts on the weight?
It makes the machining more complicated, it removes some mass (which on a PC board it can generally always use some more weight) and aesthetically it seems a bit controversial.
But maybe that's addressed in the new "weight shape"
-
The main thing I don't understand about the weight/feet situation is what prevents the weight from being just a rectangle without cutouts and have the feet "above" and "under" the weight?
There appears to be enough room on the top and bottom to put the feets (if its too close to the edge, they can always be reduce in size a little bit), so I am not sure the need for cutouts on the weight?
It makes the machining more complicated, it removes some mass (which on a PC board it can generally always use some more weight) and aesthetically it seems a bit controversial.
But maybe that's addressed in the new "weight shape"
It's the size of the feet that is controversial, not the shape of the weight. It's an aesthetic choice though, I imagine the new cut outs will be smaller and more rounded to match the new feet.
-
do the screws need to stick out from the weight?
-
The main thing I don't understand about the weight/feet situation is what prevents the weight from being just a rectangle without cutouts and have the feet "above" and "under" the weight?
There appears to be enough room on the top and bottom to put the feets (if its too close to the edge, they can always be reduce in size a little bit), so I am not sure the need for cutouts on the weight?
It makes the machining more complicated, it removes some mass (which on a PC board it can generally always use some more weight) and aesthetically it seems a bit controversial.
But maybe that's addressed in the new "weight shape"
Aesthetics. We like the idea of "framing" the weight but yes, I've expanded the weight as well in this revision.
do the screws need to stick out from the weight?
In the main post there is a section "Changes to Address Issues with the First Prototype". Under that, one of the two changes says "Recess screws fully". It was an issue with the first prototype that has already been addressed since the original IC post.
What's the front height?
It's currently 19.15 mm but I'm still revising the second design so it could come down a bit. I've designed a wrist rest to complement the side profile but I would still like it to be usable without a wrist rest.
-
I think I'll bow out of this one. Good luck with the GB.
-
looks absolutely sick!
-
Here is a pic of the unfinished alu prototype (please note that it still needs to be sandblasted and anodized). The weight and feet have been redesigned and the screws are concealed internally. The pc prototype is also underway and we're hoping that both prototypes can ship to us in a week or so.
[attachimg=1]
-
i mean, i know this is going to sound a little.. idk, but i actually preferred the oval feel. here's my idea: make the feet as long as they once were, but thinner and slimmer. it looks too generic now, tenshi, hoshizora, unikorn, jane, etc.
-
Edited-nice feet
-
good feet
-
I have to agree, while i did not like the big and long feet, I am a little worn out from seeing so many boards with this same weight design now that people are modding bakenekos
-
i mean, i know this is going to sound a little.. idk, but i actually preferred the oval feel. here's my idea: make the feet as long as they once were, but thinner and slimmer. it looks too generic now, tenshi, hoshizora, unikorn, jane, etc.
The only option here would be SKUF feet but I'm not a huge fan of the shape. In my opinion, all of the aformentioned boards have similar side profiles and the January brings something refreshing to the table with a relatively unique shape and side profile.
An overwhelming majority of people requested that we change the feet to circular bumpons. We're using feet from the vega wrist rest (that are cylindrical instead of the typical bumpon shape). These feet have the advantage of being circular and unobtrusive (we've found a transparent option for the vocal critics) which is what people seem to want while also differentiating themselves from your run-of-the-mill cheap bumpons. Here is an example of the transparent vega wrist rest feet on an acrylic wrist rest:
[attachimg=1]
I have to agree, while i did not like the big and long feet, I am a little worn out from seeing so many boards with this same weight design now that people are modding bakenekos
The redesigned weight differentiates itself by having concealed screws and being fully flush with the bottom of the case (this is not necessarily the case with some of the comparisons the January has been receiving). I'm worn out from having to defend the feet of a board (that are invisible when seated on the desk), especially after making changes due to popular demand. I have the polycarbonate prototype (with the big feet) in front of me and the feet are not visible when seated on the desk. I have never seen people make such a big deal about the feet of the keyboard and I say this as someone who peruses geekhack daily. I understand that the original feet we used were rather unorthodox but we have listened and made changes to the feet, only to receive criticism about the feet again.
I'm truly exasperated because we tried our best to improve how we handled IC's after the Paragon. We ordered a prototype first, recorded a soundtest, and avoided renders entirely by only using prototype pictures. This isn't some low effort IC where I modified an existing file in 20 minutes and my partner and I have spent well over 2k in prototyping (with the new protos included), only to see our entire IC get pulled apart in both directions by a debate on feet. People didn't like the feet so we changed it to what they wanted. We even ordered an aluminum prototype after people requested it in addition to the second polycarbonate prototype that has shipped. We're willing to put in the time and money to produce something that people want but harping on the feet after we've made a change that was overwhelmingly favored is something I find incredibly frustrating given the fact that we clearly cannot please everyone. If you don't like the revisions we've made to the feet and the weight, please feel free to buy another board or design your own.
-
Actually this is one of the few boards that the designer really spent a lot of effort and out-of-pocket money to do prototyping at the very early stage.
To me, harping on the feet design is a bit....uhm....petty I would say. There are a lot of other higher priorities in the design aspects than the mere feet.
I would rather the designer to spend more time perfecting the other parts of the design like top/side view, sound profile, screw placements, etc, which r00dy has already done / going to do with the next proto.
-
IMO the feet look humongous, other than that great work!
-
For maximum aesthetics, just make it with no feet.
Curve the bottom a bit, so when you put the keyboard on a mat, it doesn't slide around.
With all these keyboards being so damn heavy, who needs feet.
-
For maximum aesthetics, just make it with no feet.
Curve the bottom a bit, so when you put the keyboard on a mat, it doesn't slide around.
With all these keyboards being so damn heavy, who needs feet.
This might be one of the dumber takes I've seen in this hobby. Hope you're good with scratching up the bottom of your board lol I'll stick to the rubber feet. Besides, I've noticed plenty of "heavy" boards sliding around on a deskmat, so the rubber feet are definitely functional.
-
I need one for Alps, make it so!
-
I need one for Alps, make it so!
We're actually looking into this and I hope we can make it happen.
The rev2 prototype (in pc) has arrived. I've updated the changelog, main post, and first comment with the appropriate pictures and text to highlight the changes. If you want clear feet, you can buy them here (https://www.amazon.com/Fu-Store-Dampening-Protection-Floor-Hemispherical/dp/B07XXJZQMS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=20SL67RK9AK9X&keywords=adhesive+rubber+feet+clear+3%2F8%22&qid=1648057204&s=hi&sprefix=adhesive+rubber+feet+clear+3%2F8+%2Ctools%2C144&sr=1-2) but please note that the board was not explicitly designed to pair with the clear feet. Design decisions regarding the feet are nonnegotiable from here on out.
We're currently waiting on the aluminum prototype (currently in the anodizing stage). The order for the aluminum prototype includes a variety of plates including pc, pom, fr4, pp, and cf in addition to the original aluminum plate. Once we receive the aluminum prototype and plates, we'll record some new soundtests and determine the next steps.
-
I need one for Alps, make it so!
We're actually looking into this and I hope we can make it happen.
The rev2 prototype (in pc) has arrived. I've updated the changelog, main post, and first comment with the appropriate pictures and text to highlight the changes. If you want clear feet, you can buy them here (https://www.amazon.com/Fu-Store-Dampening-Protection-Floor-Hemispherical/dp/B07XXJZQMS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=20SL67RK9AK9X&keywords=adhesive+rubber+feet+clear+3%2F8%22&qid=1648057204&s=hi&sprefix=adhesive+rubber+feet+clear+3%2F8+%2Ctools%2C144&sr=1-2) but please note that the board was not explicitly designed to pair with the clear feet. Design decisions regarding the feet are nonnegotiable from here on out.
We're currently waiting on the aluminum prototype (currently in the anodizing stage). The order for the aluminum prototype includes a variety of plates including pc, pom, fr4, pp, and cf in addition to the original aluminum plate. Once we receive the aluminum prototype and plates, we'll record some new soundtests and determine the next steps.
Definitely interested in this board. Never quite got into 60% personally, but I actually really like the design of this one (+ my birthday is in January). Hopefully the alu proto also looks great and maybe a soundtest for that as well? I really appreciate all the efforts going into prototyping before the gb and hopefully everything turns out well! :D
-
I need one for Alps, make it so!
We're actually looking into this and I hope we can make it happen.
The rev2 prototype (in pc) has arrived. I've updated the changelog, main post, and first comment with the appropriate pictures and text to highlight the changes. If you want clear feet, you can buy them here (https://www.amazon.com/Fu-Store-Dampening-Protection-Floor-Hemispherical/dp/B07XXJZQMS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=20SL67RK9AK9X&keywords=adhesive+rubber+feet+clear+3%2F8%22&qid=1648057204&s=hi&sprefix=adhesive+rubber+feet+clear+3%2F8+%2Ctools%2C144&sr=1-2) but please note that the board was not explicitly designed to pair with the clear feet. Design decisions regarding the feet are nonnegotiable from here on out.
We're currently waiting on the aluminum prototype (currently in the anodizing stage). The order for the aluminum prototype includes a variety of plates including pc, pom, fr4, pp, and cf in addition to the original aluminum plate. Once we receive the aluminum prototype and plates, we'll record some new soundtests and determine the next steps.
Definitely interested in this board. Never quite got into 60% personally, but I actually really like the design of this one (+ my birthday is in January). Hopefully the alu proto also looks great and maybe a soundtest for that as well? I really appreciate all the efforts going into prototyping before the gb and hopefully everything turns out well! :D
Thanks! The aluminum prototype is almost here and we'll definitely make a soundtest with a variety of plates and switches for reference. I've added some more pictures of the polycarbonate prototype with the wrist rest.
-
A copycat Features Hello Mr Sam.
-
any chance to increase the case height by 1mm? looks like it barely covers recessed stem GMK keycaps, if using SA or KAT would result in a huge gap between bottom row and the case
-
This looks great! I really like the Polycarb case and wrist rest combo. Happy to help with EU proxying when you're ready.
-
any chance to increase the case height by 1mm? looks like it barely covers recessed stem GMK keycaps, if using SA or KAT would result in a huge gap between bottom row and the case
The pictures with the white/beige keycaps are crp on the second prototype not gmk. I think the polycarbonate case and the picture angle contribute to how the keycaps appear exposed. We had a slight fitment issue with the daughterboard in the second prototype that may be raising the pcb slightly but I am currently using the first prototype and the keycaps definitely sit below the sides. The height is already 0.5mm higher than most designs so we will probably keep the current height. Here is a preview of the height with gmk firefly on the aluminum prototype for reference:
[attachimg=1]
This looks great! I really like the Polycarb case and wrist rest combo. Happy to help with EU proxying when you're ready.
Thanks!
-
this board is gorgeous and I can't wait to be able purchase
-
new alu proto looks so nice!
any idea when sale will happen?
-
new alu proto looks so nice!
any idea when sale will happen?
this board is gorgeous and I can't wait to be able purchase
Thanks! We're ordering another round of prototypes since we're not 100% satisfied with the current round but we're hoping to run the groupbuy soon after. I've added more pictures of the aluminum prototype and updated the details.
-
I need one for Alps, make it so!
We're actually looking into this and I hope we can make it happen.
The rev2 prototype (in pc) has arrived. I've updated the changelog, main post, and first comment with the appropriate pictures and text to highlight the changes. If you want clear feet, you can buy them here (https://www.amazon.com/Fu-Store-Dampening-Protection-Floor-Hemispherical/dp/B07XXJZQMS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=20SL67RK9AK9X&keywords=adhesive+rubber+feet+clear+3%2F8%22&qid=1648057204&s=hi&sprefix=adhesive+rubber+feet+clear+3%2F8+%2Ctools%2C144&sr=1-2) but please note that the board was not explicitly designed to pair with the clear feet. Design decisions regarding the feet are nonnegotiable from here on out.
We're currently waiting on the aluminum prototype (currently in the anodizing stage). The order for the aluminum prototype includes a variety of plates including pc, pom, fr4, pp, and cf in addition to the original aluminum plate. Once we receive the aluminum prototype and plates, we'll record some new soundtests and determine the next steps.
Definitely interested in this board. Never quite got into 60% personally, but I actually really like the design of this one (+ my birthday is in January). Hopefully the alu proto also looks great and maybe a soundtest for that as well? I really appreciate all the efforts going into prototyping before the gb and hopefully everything turns out well! :D
Bumping the thread since we've added a soundtest for the aluminum proto with all 6 plate materials in the main post. We're placing the order for the final round of prototypes this week.
-
Unikorn dalco coping
It's ok
-
Unikorn dalco coping
It's ok
Flush weight, concealed screws, and seamless. There are other differences as well.
I've updated the main thread with pics from our final round of prototypes. I'll update/bump the thread again in the coming weeks as we finalize streams and groupbuy information.
-
uhhhh... I think you're 7 months late :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) You should name the board 7 months late LMAOO !!!!! :)) :)) :))
either way GLWIC :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
-
Seems interesting. Curious to see what the TBD price is.
-
Seems interesting. Curious to see what the TBD price is.
Updated with the price. We're looking at $265 USD w/o a PCB (explanation is in the main post).
-
pricing is chefskiss. well done sir, I'll be in for a frosted PC unit.
-
Add a UK vendor and I'll buy 2 of these.
-
Add a UK vendor and I'll buy 2 of these.
Thanks! We have a UK vendor on board, just trying to iron out the remaining logistics.
We have 2 streams scheduled for the upcoming weekend:
1. Meepergon on Saturday (September 10th) at 1 PM PDT (https://www.twitch.tv/meepergon)
2. Alexotos on Sunday (September 11th) at 1 PM EDT (https://www.twitch.tv/alexotos)
I've attached more information on the main post regarding the build configurations for those who are interested
-
I assume a dz60 pcb would be compatible?
-
Nevermind, realised the board uses a jst.
-
Will we have the choice of weight? I really like the one on the alu but want a smoked polycarb case!
Also, will there be a PCB sold along with the case or we have to purchase this on our own?
Can't wait for GB!
-
Will we have the choice of weight? I really like the one on the alu but want a smoked polycarb case!
Also, will there be a PCB sold along with the case or we have to purchase this on our own?
Can't wait for GB!
There will only be one weight design with the January signature. No numbered units on the weight or other designs. The ones in the pictures were custom for the FnF/Prototype units. Also no smoked PC versions for the GB, only frosted. The smoked PC case has QC issues that would be an issue for a larger run.
Edit: From the main post, January compatible PCBS will be sold separately - I assume during the GB.
Edit #2: Smoked PC is now being offered.
-
There will only be one weight design with the January signature. No numbered units on the weight or other designs. The ones in the pictures were custom for the FnF/Prototype units. Also no smoked PC versions for the GB, only frosted. The smoked PC case has QC issues that would be an issue for a larger run.
Edit: From the main post, January compatible PCBS will be sold separately - I assume during the GB.
That's too bad for the smoked PC :( still in for it though! Thanks for the info ;D
-
We've decided to bring back smoked PC after talking to both vendors and the factory. The price will be slightly higher for the smoked PC units to account for additional QC and B-stock units. The start date has been set to November 7th. I'll update the main post soon with all the finalized information before posting the groupbuy thread.
-
will wilba pcbs be compatible? or is it a proprietary pcb?
-
will wilba pcbs be compatible? or is it a proprietary pcb?
I'm not sure which pcb you're referring to or where the post cutouts are on the pcb. I would venture to say that it's probably not compatible with the January but I'd need to know which pcb and where the post cutouts are to be certain.
The groupbuy post is up: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=118764.0
-
Man this is like my dream board, but I rlly wanted a wkl oring 60.
Sent from my moto g power (2022) using Tapatalk