[GB] F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! Kishsaver+Industrial Model F

[ApocalypseMaow]

Ohhhhh oops, carry on.

[Ellipse]

We are currently 3 away from 1500 Brand New Model F Keyboards ordered! 

[pixelpusher]

We are currently 3 away from 1500 Brand New Model F Keyboards ordered!

Really tempted to pick up a 62 to accompany my 77...  must... resist. 

[macclack]

We are currently 3 away from 1500 Brand New Model F Keyboards ordered!

Really tempted to pick up a 62 to accompany my 77...  must... resist.

I already took that plunge lol. Since I originally purchased--which was like 2 years ago--I've started to really love 60% keyboards.

[Petch]

We are currently 3 away from 1500 Brand New Model F Keyboards ordered!

Really tempted to pick up a 62 to accompany my 77...  must... resist.

I just bought an F77 to go with my F62 

[pixelpusher]

We are currently 3 away from 1500 Brand New Model F Keyboards ordered!

Really tempted to pick up a 62 to accompany my 77...  must... resist.

I just bought an F77 to go with my F62 

I mean, the thing is... we really don't know what the keyboard feels like.  I'm sure it'll be fantastic, but that's a lot of cash to throw down for a second one

[Ellipse]

Great work by SneakyRobb over on DT for finding out the origins of the "F" and "M" and posting an interesting article!

Looks like IBM did the one key at a time sound tests with each assembled keyboard as I've asked the factory to do for this project.

I asked the IBM Archives and the guy there Max who is cool referred me to a copy of the IBM SiteLine June 1982 magazine. It discusses how the Keyboard F Mechanisn Manufacturing is doing more with less versus previous keyboards, Specifically the IBM Model B keyboard mechanism and the Model E keyboard mechanism.

It would appear that Model F and Model M are sequential models of keyboard mechanism.

The article mentions that Model B keyboards have an absurd 9 moving parts, where Model F only has 3. I assume the cap, spring and flipper.

So it is actually pretty likely that "M" doesn't reference Membrane at all.

https://imgur.com/a/D9CN4lX

[Petch]

We are currently 3 away from 1500 Brand New Model F Keyboards ordered!

Really tempted to pick up a 62 to accompany my 77...  must... resist.

I just bought an F77 to go with my F62 

I mean, the thing is... we really don't know what the keyboard feels like.  I'm sure it'll be fantastic, but that's a lot of cash to throw down for a second one

People have tried them at meetups, no?

[Lagomorph]

The article Ellipse linked to is really interesting, although it makes me lament the demise of built-to-last workmanship in a lot of products.

Technology is especially tough since there's so much change and innovation, but at least input devices have better lasting value.

[vewy_nice]

We are currently 3 away from 1500 Brand New Model F Keyboards ordered!

Maybe someday we can get an update like this, except replace "ordered" with "shipped"

Unless they will start shopping tomorrow I'm going to have to change my address... Just posting so I don't forget to on you when I get home.

[esquilax]

Unless they will start shopping tomorrow I'm going to have to change my address... Just posting so I don't forget to on you when I get home.

I've changed my address twice already. Ellipse is very responsive about that.

[Ellipse]

Given the failures of the spring attacher machine repair attempts last year, this month the factory started over on the spring attacher and built a machine with a new design.  From the video tests the factory showed me of the assembled springs, there is a near-100% success rate of the attacher! 

The new design eliminates the horizontal movement of the posts holding the springs and instead just moves along one axis. 

I think the spring sound video I sent them helped highlight the importance of an attachment that matches the spring-nub spacing and spring angle specifications.  They will be making some more of these attacher machines in March after their break.

[Ellipse]

The factory has shipped the requested number of sets of keys and other parts before their break. 

They also built a total of 3 spring attachers of the new design from the photo posted 1/17 (each machine does 3 springs at a time) and plan on building more machines after returning to work to reduce assembly time.  They sent samples for my approval from each of the 3 currently-built machines.

Currently I can ship a small number of barrels, assembled flippers/springs, and F122 / F107 inner foam in case anyone needs it.  And next month I can start shipping unprinted key sets.

[Ellipse]

I just posted my monthly blog update - including some interesting background reading on the behind the scenes challenges of small scale manufacturing including a discussion around delays, failed suppliers, and even some fraudsters!  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog/

Not to scare anyone - just a reminder that all issues discussed in the blog were successfully resolved and do not impact the delivery of the project.

[mattlach]

Oh man.

Make a model with a standard "IBM Enhanced Keyboard" fullsize layout in black with doubleshot keys and backlighting, and I almost don't care what it costs.   I'll be lining up around the block Apple store style.

Other ideas:
- Full NKRO reworking of circuitry
- MX-style Keycap stems?

This would be the goddamned holy grail for me.

[InvidiousIgnoramus]

Oh man.

Make a model with a standard "IBM Enhanced Keyboard" fullsize layout in black with doubleshot keys and backlighting, and I almost don't care what it costs.   I'll be lining up around the block Apple store style.

Other ideas:
- Full NKRO reworking of circuitry
- MX-style Keycap stems?

This would be the goddamned holy grail for me.

1 They're already full N-key rollover

2 You're asking for too much, and it won't garner the support needed to make it even remotely affordable.

[ptiede]

Oh man.

Make a model with a standard "IBM Enhanced Keyboard" fullsize layout in black with doubleshot keys and backlighting, and I almost don't care what it costs.   I'll be lining up around the block Apple store style.

Other ideas:
- Full NKRO reworking of circuitry
- MX-style Keycap stems?

This would be the goddamned holy grail for me.

The model F due to its capacitive nature is naturally NKRO, unlike regular cherry switches that require diodes to complete the same feat.

[mattlach]

2 You're asking for too much, and it won't garner the support needed to make it even remotely affordable.

I assumed as much, but one can always dream.   I can't be the only person who would be interested in a modern featured buckling spring.

The model F due to its capacitive nature is naturally NKRO, unlike regular cherry switches that require diodes to complete the same feat.

I did not know that.  I incorrectly assumed it behaved the same as the Model M, just with different key feel.  Thanks for setting me straight.

[Kavik]

2 You're asking for too much, and it won't garner the support needed to make it even remotely affordable.

I assumed as much, but one can always dream.   I can't be the only person who would be interested in a modern featured buckling spring.

The model F due to its capacitive nature is naturally NKRO, unlike regular cherry switches that require diodes to complete the same feat.

I did not know that.  I incorrectly assumed it behaved the same as the Model M, just with different key feel.  Thanks for setting me straight.

Do a search for the "Model MF" (I think it was only on Deskthority though). It's a conversion kit to make a Model M SSK into a capacitive BS board; however, I think it was canceled before it got off the ground. There was another IC or GB for some capacitive PCBs for the SSK more recently here on GH that just required a bolt mod and F style flippers; I don't know what happened to that. But as far as I know, all efforts have been for SSKs and not fullsize Ms. Anywho, your interest may garner more support in those threads. This GB is already a done deal in terms of design. Ellipse has put years into this, and I doubt he'll do it again especially with a new design that requires new molds and prototyping.

Though, if it's the zinc case for a Model M that you're after, I haven't seen anything like that. It would be pretty cool.

[mattlach]

Yeah,
Just throwing the idea out there in case he decides to turn this into a business.

I mean, he has made tooling and everything.   I'm guessing it's not just going to be thrown away after a single group buy run

[esquilax]

I mean, he has made tooling and everything.   I'm guessing it's not just going to be thrown away after a single group buy run

My understanding is that the tooling is going away after two runs.

[Ellipse]

The shipment of the keys and other parts is still in transit - I guess they had higher than usual package volume given it's around the time of the new year holiday.  Hopefully it arrives this week.  The holiday break will be over in about 2-3 weeks from now.

[Ellipse]

As an update on the key dye sublimation, still waiting on a few more parts for the jig.  The remaining CNC milling will take at least 3-4 more weeks from now (the major jig parts are all made/being made in the USA). 

For the sublimation ink I will be sublimating samples to production keys after the jig is assembled.  Will post photos of course.

One of the owners of the sublimation print shop I've been talking with told me he worked on the IBM Selectric key legend application (non-sublimated) in the early 1980s!  He said the process involved a special hard dry ink printed to hard plastic sheets and then transferred to the keys.

[Ellipse]

The very first key sets ship tomorrow!  Industrial SSK blue and dark gray.  I can ship more keys-only orders if you wanted your set early (the keyboards will not ship early). 


They forgot to mail enough space bar wire stabilizers so I can only send 3 more sets for the time being if you want the wire stabilizer (I can also send out sets without the stabilizer).

Below is the list of expected key set contents.  The installed printed key sets will get the full 104 keys, plus an extra printed 1U 0 Ins key for the F77 right side block.


A mountain of keys!

[joey]

Does https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-set-of-brand-new-production-xt-quality-one-piece-keys/ fit the f62 too?

[Ellipse]

Yes the keys will fit the original and new Model F keyboards plus the Model M keyboards. 

As a note I only have unprinted keys available to ship this week.

[joey]

I'm tempted to get another set of keys for the f62 I ordered.. but also weary about spending more money on this.. (no offence)

[Ellipse]

The key caps' top texture does wear down with usage and often becomes noticeably shiny/more slippery after a while.  You could keep an extra set or two unused and resell it down the line, long after production has ended.  The sets are fully compatible with Models F and M buckling spring keyboards. 

The more Model F spare parts produced and out there, the better!  Less of a need to cannibalize Model F keyboards for parts.

[joey]

Yes but I'm also throwing more money into a black hole and hoping something comes out of it in the end

[kennardsmith]

now i am upset i didn't order that SSK blue, looks great!

[Ellipse]

Happy to add on to anyone's order!  Anything added on should ship with your earlier keyboard order.

[Ellipse]

DT user FXT posted the very first delivered and installed Brand New Model F key sets over on DT!  A great milestone for the project.  https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?p=437736#p437736

As a note the colors in the photo are not representative of the actual colors (the photo appears a bit brighter).

Another two custom built pieces of the jig for dye sublimation arrived today.  Will continue assembly and additional testing.  Just need another 3-4 weeks from now for the remaining parts. 

I reviewed the latest spring assembly samples today.  Spring machine 2 is excellent, perfect! Only 1 bad assembly requiring adjustment out of 20 total assemblies.  If all the springs are like spring 2 samples then they will likely be approved! 

Spring machine 1 has 10 good and 11 bad springs so it is not approved. 

Spring machine 3 needs adjustment/improvement.  14 decent assemblies and 6 not good assemblies.

[Acereconkeys]

Maybe dumb question been sort of hard to follow this entire buy, but I just saw the photos on DT and I must have them for my Model F122. Is there any place I can buy just a new set of those keyaps? (the gray and blue ones)

[tassadarforaiur]

Hey ellipse. When all the manufacturing is locked down, can you send an email to everyone who registered on your site warning us of last call to join / modify? I want in, but would rather pay closer to deadline, and buy keycaps while I wait.

[Ellipse]

tassadarforaiur - feel free to sign up for the mailing list and I will notify people from there. 

[Ellipse]

The final parts of the dye sublimation jig have completed production!  They should ship in the coming days.  Still waiting on the sample sublimation sheets from the dye sub shop and the custom stamped template sheets for the key sets to maximize alignment during the sublimation process.  I am hoping to start sublimating full key set samples a few weeks from now.

A special thanks to Zed who has just about finished the US ANSI layout.  As posted a while back, Zed has been making all the fonts for this project, making sure they are accurately representative of the early IBM Model F fonts, with some updates for the more recent Model M style keys and making them match those of the Model F.

If you'd like to see the extra/custom legends available here is a new product page showing all the options:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/new-custom-legend-keycaps/

The factory reopens next week.  The goal for the factory is to assemble some test keyboards based on my instructions, and then fully assemble and ship to me the first few hundred keyboards in March and April.  Those who ordered the earliest and those with low/custom serial numbers will be going out first.  Currently about 150 of the 1500 ordered keyboards are low serial.

As noted about 10 days ago, the factory is still trying to produce the spring/flipper assembly machines.  Their redesigned machines' first samples showed one perfectly working machine (machine 2) and two machines that still needed work.  Assembly may be delayed if these machines are not ready. 

[Glod]

Will you be selling full printed ANSI sets (for model m, etc) after this with the new tools, instead of requesting one peice custom? I have a SSK i bought years ago with missing key caps and it currently has the dreaded TERRIBLE Unicomp set--the poor guy could use better caps.

[pixelpusher]

Is there a way to see everything we've ordered at this point?  I've ordered and changed my order and added on twice, so I'm just not sure what I have.  lol

[Ellipse]

I have posted a new update today on the project web site:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog/

"February update 2: Passed $700,000! Dye sublimation jig for the keys, spring assembly, factory reopens after holiday break"

The big update is that we have passed the $700,000 order mark this month!

Yes Glod - you can currently order full printed ANSI and ISO sets for Model M and Model F keyboards here:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-set-of-brand-new-production-xt-quality-one-piece-keys/

Given the small differences and variations in keycap colors over the decades of buckling spring production, I recommend replacing all key caps in a set at once instead of mixing new with old.

pixelpusher - yes anyone who wants to can feel free to message me and I will send an order summary.  I'll send yours over PM soon.

Looks like the current layouts people asked for are US, UK, Danish, Swedish/Finnish, Norwegian, French, German, and a few asked for Swiss French, Swiss German, or Latin American Spanish (one each).  Also a couple people wanted JIS or APL sets from Unicomp.

The goal is to make the layout legends closely resemble those of the Model M, but with the thicker XT style appearance.  There will be no sublegends though, except for Front Printed F1, etc. keys in each language.

I expect that those front legends on the 4704 V, B, and N keys will be available as extras not included with the main sets, along with SysRq and Break front printed Print Screen and Pause keys.

[Cods]

Hey ellipse - it looks like the keys just sold singly, and not in sets, is that correct?
Is there a way on your site to buy some of the ‘sets’ named in the pictures?
(puts on his kid in a lolly* shop voice)

May I have two of these in pearl


and one of these in pearl


and two of these in pearl, please 


(*candy, for our North American friends)

[Ellipse]

Cods each individual key is $4.  Please total the number of keys you'd like and order units of the product "individual keys."  The only available sets are Industrial SSK, Front Printed F1 etc., and Mac/Apple keys.  The individual keys are sold at higher price to help recover project cost overruns.

[Cods]

Great! Will do
Thanks for the extraordinarily fast response.

[Ellipse]

The factory is back to work now.  The videos of their latest assembled spring tests showed a 100% success rate for all 3 machines!  They will be mailing the samples next week for my own testing before they can be approved for keyboard assembly.

[Ellipse]

Additional Key Legends / Front Printing Interest?

Please let me know if you're interested.  Each front printed key would be $4, same as the other extra keys.  They would all be printed black, not gray.  It would just be the num pad type keys in the main block, not the other front printed keys on the below keyboards.

Thanks to forum member Zed the key legend offerings will be expanded!

If anyone wants any customized keys that others may also be interested in, now is the time to post your suggestions! The sublimation template sheets have not yet been finalized.

1391472 style:


1392980 terminal SSK style:


HHKB style:

[Meowsaur]

Don't suppose there are any plans for optional relegendable keycaps in the final production run?
Just thought I'd check before buying some less-than-par caps off eBay.

[DZed]

Since the artwork for the main ANSI set is pretty much finished, I thought some pics were in order. The small text on the num pads is a slightly older version before some kerning fixes.





And this should answer some of the recently posted questions/requests. The HHKB front print and SSK Num Pad are still under review AFAIK. I have not included the Mac specific HHKB front print but if the yelling is loud enough and Ellipse agrees... Obviously, the icons are just as close as I could get with KLE. My thinking is to 'IBMify' stuff like the media icons and HHKB front print abbreviations. The Ins and Del icons from the F122 set will be like the Beamspring/terminal ones.

[str8away]

Any chance you do a dark grey alphas and blue modifiers keyset?

[Ellipse]

str8away, feel free to order the dark gray and Industrial SSK blue sets if you'd like, or order the modifiers separately.

Those ordering extra key sets and the custom color sets help cover cost overruns and added costs for the extra colors, which is why the extras are priced a bit higher than ordering full key sets and why full key sets cost more than if included as part of a new Model F keyboard.  The extra colors require significant cost because they are custom mixed and the minimum order quantity of the high end PBT material for each color is large. 

Meowsaur sorry that would require new tooling.  orihalcon does sell original relegendable keys to my knowledge.

[ccc24]

It's been so long I forgot what I ordered lol. Do the keyboards come pre-programmed when shipped to us?

[Ellipse]

Yes ccc.  Did you get an order confirmation email when you placed your order?  It should have been automatically sent out but maybe I did not configure it properly.