Apple "Magic trackpad"

[Superfluous Parentheses]

http://theappwhisperer.com/2010/07/27/new-apple-magic-trackpad-is-here/

Price seems fairly reasonable for an Apple product at $69.

From what I can tell from the screenshots here http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC380?mco=MTg1ODA3ND the size is also pretty good: same height and about half the width of the apple wireless keyboard. But no official dimensions specified, so take that with a bit of salt.

Now, all I'd need are decent linux drivers.

[hyperlinked]

I'm totally interested in this. I got the Magic Mouse last year. I didn't like the mouse very much, but I loved having a small wireless trackpad that I could move around. It made it easy to pan around windows spilling over with database cells among other things. I've actually been using it as a mini-trackpad but it's kinda too small as such.

[LarsMarkelson]

Looks amazing. I want one if the Windows drivers work well.

Woweee... I almost want to hop on my bike and buy one today. Loving the large size of it. I wonder if you can game on it?

[NamelessPFG]

It requires OS X 10.6.4 Snow Leopard? Typical Apple trying to push people along the upgrade treadmill...not even OS X 10.5 Leopard or 10.4 Tiger are supported.

That said, Apple 'Books since 2005 hold the distinction of being the only laptop trackpads I can stand, if only because they don't screw with the cursor whenever my palms touch the upper corners. Two-finger scroll is also very nicely implemented.

...Gaming on a trackpad? Seriously? You can try, but I'd rather stick with my Logitech G500, its loads of physical hardware buttons with good tactile feedback, and precise tracking.

Anyway, I'm wondering how Wacom's second-gen Bamboo line fares in comparison, since most of them now double as multi-touch trackpads as well. (They already win on pen input, but is the two-finger scroll as smooth?)

[LarsMarkelson]

It requires OS X 10.6.4 Snow Leopard? Typical Apple trying to push people along the upgrade treadmill...not even OS X 10.5 Leopard or 10.4 Tiger are supported.

That said, Apple 'Books since 2005 hold the distinction of being the only laptop trackpads I can stand, if only because they don't screw with the cursor whenever my palms touch the upper corners. Two-finger scroll is also very nicely implemented.

...Gaming on a trackpad? Seriously? You can try, but I'd rather stick with my Logitech G500, its loads of physical hardware buttons with good tactile feedback, and precise tracking.

Anyway, I'm wondering how Wacom's second-gen Bamboo line fares in comparison, since most of them now double as multi-touch trackpads as well. (They already win on pen input, but is the two-finger scroll as smooth?)

Haha, well we shall see. I put in an order for one already, despite not having a Windows 7 machine. I got a feeling that it will work plug and play at least tracking, tapping, and two finger scroll.

[EverythingIBM]

That looks quite interesting actually.

The only downside is that it constantly electrocutes you when you touch it (and perhaps its size; my skeletal fingers need large touchpads).

[ch_123]

Of course, it's only a matter of time before Apple replaces the entire keyboard with this thing too =P

I'd be interested if it was hacked to Windows, and I could get one cheap...

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Of course, it's only a matter of time before Apple replaces the entire keyboard with this thing too =P

You may laugh, but fingerworks is the company that Apple bought to get the patents and stuff for their touchpads. And fingerworks DID make a few keyboards based on multitouch pads. like the Touchstream LP. A friend of mine has one of those and she's very happy with it. I think Webwit has one too.

 They even provided a touchstream style pad as a replacement for powerbook keyboards.

All of those products were removed from the market when Apple bought them.

[ch_123]

Who said I was laughing? I'm being deadly serious. Once Apple perfects their virtual keyboards, the keyboard and mouse will just be replaced with one big slate. It might even be good for all we know...

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Who said I was laughing? I'm being deadly serious. Once Apple perfects their virtual keyboards, the keyboard and mouse will just be replaced with one big slate. It might even be good for all we know...

I still have to try those fingerworks "boards" but they certainly look interesting, if only because you can use the same surface to type and to "mouse"/gesture. Seems a big improvement over today's fairly giant keyboards with a mouse somewhere at the end. That is, if you can actually type on them well.

[ch_123]

If I were to be extraordinarily cynical, I would say that the low travel keys on current Macs is a precursor to vibrating keyboards... Getting people used to some degree of tactility with very little travel associated.

[EverythingIBM]

I want to bring this up so no crazy person starts hailing touchpad technology superior to tactile keys:
The notion of "touch" technology completely replacing tactile keyboards is absurd (maybe for individuals who can't type or want basic portability): that's the equivalent of saying pianos & other keyboarded instruments will all be touch-sensitive as well... no... because it's annoyingly difficult to keep track of where to hit keys; even with feedback I should add.

While it's interesting seeing new touchpad technology, it will never replace a tactile keyboard(s). Besides, in terms of ergonomy, it's not good long-term. Typing on the iPad for awhile (in my experience) hurt my fingers after awhile.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

While it's interesting seeing new touchpad technology, it will never replace a tactile keyboard(s). Besides, in terms of ergonomy, it's not good long-term. Typing on the iPad for awhile (in my experience) hurt my fingers after awhile.

I'm not going to disagree, much, but my friend bought one of those touchstreams precisely because she had lots of problems with RSI/carpal/whatever **** and she's very enthousiastic about them. (She's a programmer, so not exactly a casual keyboard user)

I guess it's what's you're used to/"built for".

FTR: I had piano training for a couple of years and good pianos have much, much heavier keys than even a Model M, BUT, pianos are also touch sensitive with a LOT of dynamic range. When typing, a key is a key is key.

[hyperlinked]

I'm not going to disagree, much, but my friend bought one of those touchstreams precisely because she had lots of problems with RSI/carpal/whatever **** and she's very enthousiastic about them. (She's a programmer, so not exactly a casual keyboard user).

One of my clients told me that that ever since he got his iPad, he rarely uses anything else for writing documents now. It turns out that he can't touch type and even though he types at a decent speed, he has to look down so for the first time he's able to type and read at the same time.

[EverythingIBM]

One of my clients told me that that ever since he got his iPad, he rarely uses anything else for writing documents now. It turns out that he can't touch type and even though he types at a decent speed, he has to look down so for the first time he's able to type and read at the same time.

He wouldn't be able to type 120 WPM like I can with a good keyboard.

I'm not going to disagree, much, but my friend bought one of those touchstreams precisely because she had lots of problems with RSI/carpal/whatever **** and she's very enthousiastic about them. (She's a programmer, so not exactly a casual keyboard user)

I guess it's what's you're used to/"built for".

FTR: I had piano training for a couple of years and good pianos have much, much heavier keys than even a Model M, BUT, pianos are also touch sensitive with a LOT of dynamic range. When typing, a key is a key is key.

Actually Harpsichord keys feel a lot different than a piano and are not touch sensitive with more dynamic range (two registers -- same with organs). Some piano keys are heavier than others, depending on the weighting. But yes, they are generally heavier.

[ch_123]

He wouldn't be able to type 120 WPM like I can with a good keyboard.

Why not?

[Superfluous Parentheses]

He wouldn't be able to type 120 WPM like I can with a good keyboard.

I can't type nearly 120 WPM on any board. I'm a programmer not a stenographer. If my typing has to keep up with my thinking I'm just not using the right language. Or possibly I'm coding something that's too boring. Which would also indicate I could use a better language to reduce the amount of code.

Actually Harpsichord keys feel a lot different than a piano and are not touch sensitive with more dynamic range (two registers -- same with organs).

IME harpsichords have a pretty limited dynamic range compared to pianos. You can switch off either one of the strings, but that still leaves you with plucking the one remaining string with the same force you'd use "normally".

Pianos were explicitly designed to allow for subtle and large dynamic differences purely based on the force/velocity with which you strike the keys.

[ch_123]

Is your user name some kind of Lisp or Perl reference? =P

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Is your user name some kind of Lisp or Perl reference? =P

One of those, yes.

Edit: Since I'm procrastinating anyway, in defense of concise code, keep in mind that good/used code is read probably a lot more than it is re-written. Keeping things orderly, short and easy to understand is exactly what you should aim for if your goal is to write reusable/understandable code.

[ch_123]

Lisp? Perl is more arbitrary symbols, or so it seems to me when I look at some of more complicated programs.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Lisp? Perl is more arbitrary symbols, or so it seems to me when I look at some of more complicated programs.

I'm much more of a Lisp fan but I used to do a lot of Perl.

Perl is fine if you stay within what the designer wanted to make easy, and it does make a lot of stuff that's not traditionally easy at least possible. But it does get uglier once you get over the easy parts.

Lisp gives you a lot more power to design "your own language" for whatever domain you're tackling and as long as you stay committed to making stuff clean your code will mostly stay clean too. As long as you're not stuck in 90's backward-compatibility mode (and I like Common Lisp).

[EverythingIBM]

Why not?

You can't type 120 WPM on a keyless keyboard! I suppose I could always do the test myself...

I can't type nearly 120 WPM on any board. I'm a programmer not a stenographer. If my typing has to keep up with my thinking I'm just not using the right language. Or possibly I'm coding something that's too boring. Which would also indicate I could use a better language to reduce the amount of code.

IME harpsichords have a pretty limited dynamic range compared to pianos. You can switch off either one of the strings, but that still leaves you with plucking the one remaining string with the same force you'd use "normally".

Pianos were explicitly designed to allow for subtle and large dynamic differences purely based on the force/velocity with which you strike the keys.

Harpsichords have two registers (good ones anyways):

Pianos only have one making them inferior for a lot of music such as Bach's which demand two (I laugh when people play Bach on the piano -- I was at a piano store and someone was doing that trying to show off. I'd have chimed in my two cents but there is no point of arguing with stuck-up pianists).

[Mercen_505]

I'll pass, thanks.

[EverythingIBM]

I'll pass, thanks.

Awwww... come on. Are you sure you don't want to take a bite?


You could try playing a few psygnosis titles on it.

[woebtz]

Thread on ARS; XP/Win7 installation for PC:
PSA: How to (probably) enable the Magic Trackpad under non-Bootcamp'd Windows

The gist:
1. Download Magic Trackpad drivers for Windows/Bootcamp.
2. Extract, rename, and run driver installer binary.
3. Add the bluetooth device, pair with passkey: 0000
4. Enable Bluetooth Drivers Service for mice/keyboards.

For Windows XP, 1.0 drivers enable:
* Moving the cursor,
* Left and right click,
* Vertical scrolling.

Negs:
* Physical switches are in the bottom edge feet, so non-tap clicking is difficult (little leverage).
* Substantial delay (half second?) to register tap dragging/drag-lock mode.

I can't wait to try it out on my MacBook, but I guess I won't write off the Filco SmartTrack Neo just yet!

[microsoft windows]

:focus:

Am I the only one here who prefers plastic trashpads to the glass trashpads? My fingers seem to get too much friction on the glass ones.

I like trackpoints, mice, and trackballs much better than any trashpad.

[hyperlinked]

My fingers seem to get too much friction on the glass ones.

It's because you're a dirty troll-hugging hippie.

[microsoft windows]

I saw a few real hippies at a Volkswagen show in my town (the Bug-in). They're getting pretty old now.

[SpatiallyAware]

Thread on ARS; XP/Win7 installation for PC:
PSA: How to (probably) enable the Magic Trackpad under non-Bootcamp'd Windows

The gist:
1. Download Magic Trackpad drivers for Windows/Bootcamp.
2. Extract, rename, and run driver installer binary.
3. Add the bluetooth device, pair with passkey: 0000
4. Enable Bluetooth Drivers Service for mice/keyboards.

For Windows XP, 1.0 drivers enable:
* Moving the cursor,
* Left and right click,
* Vertical scrolling.

Negs:
* Physical switches are in the bottom edge feet, so non-tap clicking is difficult (little leverage).
* Substantial delay (half second?) to register tap dragging/drag-lock mode.

I can't wait to try it out on my MacBook, but I guess I won't write off the Filco SmartTrack Neo just yet!

I would go buy one right now if I could do the webpage forward/back trick..  I wonder if this is a windows limitation that can be worked around, or hopefully someone comes out with some hacked drivers...

[mowcius]

Am I the only one here who prefers plastic trashpads to the glass trashpads? My fingers seem to get too much friction on the glass ones.

I like trackpoints, mice, and trackballs much better than any trashpad.

I hate the glossy touchpads you can get, much prefer the matt ones. Loads of new laptops seem to have the glossy ones now and I always decide if I am going to buy a laptop or not depending on the touch pad. I go round the stores feeling them all, then go online and get it at least 20% cheaper somewhere else :tongue1:

I also hate those touchpads on laptops that have no set-in. I can see that for most people it means they don't get muck stuck in it but I always end up trying to scroll the on a bit of laptop that's not the touchpad. I don't want to have to look at the touchpad while scrolling.

Mowcius

[ch_123]

I once was fixing someone's HP laptop, and was cleaning it while it was reinstalling windows. I wiped down the touchpad with a damp cloth, and afterwards, my finger wouldn't move across the surface... it was as if the thing needed a layer of dead skin and grease to work properly...

[EverythingIBM]

I hate the glossy touchpads you can get, much prefer the matt ones. Loads of new laptops seem to have the glossy ones now and I always decide if I am going to buy a laptop or not depending on the touch pad. I go round the stores feeling them all, then go online and get it at least 20% cheaper somewhere else :tongue1:

I also hate those touchpads on laptops that have no set-in. I can see that for most people it means they don't get muck stuck in it but I always end up trying to scroll the on a bit of laptop that's not the touchpad. I don't want to have to look at the touchpad while scrolling.

Mowcius

The problem I've had with matte touchpads, is they get shiny spots in the middle. Which is why I don't use them. If they're glossy, they're already shiny!

I once was fixing someone's HP laptop, and was cleaning it while it was reinstalling windows. I wiped down the touchpad with a damp cloth, and afterwards, my finger wouldn't move across the surface... it was as if the thing needed a layer of dead skin and grease to work properly...

Well, maybe it was a cheap touchpad that was destroyed by water (if that's even possible, I never heard of touchpads getting fried from water). I've cleaned touchpads with damp cloths before -- so there SHOULDN'T be any issues.

[mowcius]

Well, maybe it was a cheap touchpad that was destroyed by water (if that's even possible, I never heard of touchpads getting fried from water). I've cleaned touchpads with damp cloths before -- so there SHOULDN'T be any issues.

I think he means that his finger got stuck to it as it was too glossy and did not have the layer of muck to let it slide across, not that the touchpad broke.

The problem I've had with matte touchpads, is they get shiny spots in the middle. Which is why I don't use them. If they're glossy, they're already shiny!

Some do but it depends how much it has been used, I got a load of laptops from a company which were about 8 years old and none of them had shiny touchpads. If my touchpad got too shiny then I would go get another touchpad for it (or find one in my boxes of of parts).
I think this is partially to do with how hard you press, I have a really light touch on touchpads and therefore I have never made one shiny but that's just me!

[ch_123]

Well, maybe it was a cheap touchpad that was destroyed by water (if that's even possible, I never heard of touchpads getting fried from water). I've cleaned touchpads with damp cloths before -- so there SHOULDN'T be any issues.

Eventually I rubbed the thing with the palm of my hand and it was usable again. The issue was not that it stopped working, but the fact that when it was cleaned, it was very difficult to physically move your finger along it (too much friction)

In the flipside, some cheap laptop manufacturers have a fascination with making touchpads that are like ribbed condoms...

[mowcius]

In the flipside, some cheap laptop manufacturers have a fascination with making touchpads that are like ribbed condoms...

Does that help

[hyperlinked]

In the flipside, some cheap laptop manufacturers have a fascination with making touchpads that are like ribbed condoms...

Bah! Quit whining! Just apply some oil based lube and get back to work.

[microsoft windows]

Eventually I rubbed the thing with the palm of my hand and it was usable again. The issue was not that it stopped working, but the fact that when it was cleaned, it was very difficult to physically move your finger along it (too much friction)

In the flipside, some cheap laptop manufacturers have a fascination with making touchpads that are like ribbed condoms...

I just don't use laptops anymore (The way they're built makes it very painful on my hands to use them these days). So I guess I don't have to worry about trashpads.

[EverythingIBM]

I just don't use laptops anymore (The way they're built makes it very painful on my hands to use them these days). So I guess I don't have to worry about trashpads.

After the T60p, I'm kind of in that league.

Although I sometimes need a portable computer to make my time worthwhile.

[microsoft windows]

If I'm on the go, I just won't use a computer. I like my full-travel keyboards, mice, and big monitors.

[EverythingIBM]

If I'm on the go, I just won't use a computer. I like my full-travel keyboards, mice, and big monitors.

But for students & work that needs to be done on the computer, it's quite necessary.

I also stay in contact with a lot of family/friends through email.