Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 10:39:49
(https://i.imgur.com/kdJYkXr.jpg)
Simply put, this is an IC for 60% version of Leaf 80 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97011.0).
This IC is not for checking interests because we will run it for sure.
The purpose of this IC is for collecting suggestions/opinions on the current design and future available options.
Some potential new features:
- New plate mounting method. We've been using top mount for quite a long time. Now we're trying to figure out how to play with gaskets. Not sure if the current design can be called gasket mount or not.
- Anodizing: new regular colors, gradient anodizing, camo ano, hard ano
- E-coating: new colors, non matte finish (the original e-white and e-black are all matte finish)
- PVD brass case: It was a pain to deal with PVD because the quality is hard to control. Exclusive found a reliable factory that can do PVD in very high quality. It might be worth trying. Really appreciate his help.
- PC case: Anyone interested in opaque PC cases? I'm not sure about the aesthetic aspect but the PC cases sound different from metal cases.
(https://i.imgur.com/8FNuseW.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/c8BJWeW.png)
The current design is to attach 4 long strips of self-adhesive gaskets on both the top case and the bottom case.
The gaskets have screw holes on them. They will be compressed a little bit when the screws are tightened.
The front and rear sides of the plate will be sandwich mounted in the middle.
Update on 01/08:
Some changes have been made since the IC starts. There are also some details have been confirmed.
- Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout. Both are USB C + QMK
- The USB port cutout will be in the middle
- 4 types plates will be available: MX universal, MX WKL, MX HHKB, ALPS
- Colors of aluminum parts: E-white, E-black, E-red, purple anodizing, yellow anodizing
- Colors of PC versions: Matte clear, opaque black
- Colors of PVD brass versions: gold, silver, rose gold
- Pricing for aluminum/PC kits: $275 excluding Paypal fees or $290 with PayPal fees included.
- Pricing for all brass PVD kits: $560 excluding PayPal fees.
- Limits: 10 kits for all brass kits because PVD quality is difficult to control.
Post by: ChrisSwires on Sat, 22 December 2018, 10:44:40
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Post by: clasicks on Sat, 22 December 2018, 10:47:47
Would it be able to be assembled without the rubber strips?
Post by: gnhuy91 on Sat, 22 December 2018, 10:48:43
Post by: dallman5 on Sat, 22 December 2018, 10:53:16
Is there any reason for a custom PCB over the current 60% standard? Also, do you have a projected price range yet?
Post by: Rensuya on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:02:48
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Post by: gabetjh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:03:14
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Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:03:53
Post by: Dovan1405 on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:06:43
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Post by: finalarcadia on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:08:26
Post by: Abec13 on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:10:05
Post by: laserbeamspewpew on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:10:22
Post by: DJSwayde on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:11:39
I think the case should support universal PCB. Seems most people prefer universal PCB.
Post by: The_Boom_Boy on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:11:48
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:17:50
Post by: ChrisSwires on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:20:03
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Post by: t0ch on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:40:54
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Post by: Dolas on Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:41:27
Post by: azharkh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 12:13:43
I do agree that the switch cutouts under the blockers do look bad on the polycarb hhkb. I think it'd be best to offer an hhkb specific plate as well that doesn't have those cutouts as they're not needed.
and please for the love of god don't have iso/ansi plates. iso specific or ansi specific plates are a necessity
Post by: tiydal on Sat, 22 December 2018, 12:54:29
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:06:05
I'm definitely interested in all the color/finishing options. I've been interested in PC case for a while, depends on price though.
Post by: ChrisSwires on Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:10:38
Would like to see different plate versions so there are no extra holes for specific layouts. Also like has been mentioned, would prefer universal PCB option unless there is a reason not to.To throw in my opposing 2 cents. I'd rather universal than completely fixed regardless of layout unless there's sound relief cuts. Honestly I find an open bottom row and iso enter area sounds preferable than fixed, and any alignment issues are simply fixed with PCB mount switches.
I'm definitely interested in all the color/finishing options. I've been interested in PC case for a while, depends on price though.
Admittedly the sound is opinion. As always.
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Post by: olivia on Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:35:00
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:38:19
Looks neat, thoughts on making a universal 60% pcb version with Left side USB?
Would it be able to be assembled without the rubber strips?
No, the plan is to make a USB C pcb that fits the case perfectly. I don't want to make a super large usb cutout and support universal 60% PCBs.
Are you asking if the case also supports top mount? No in that case
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:47:42
Looks nice! I may be interested in a PC or e-coat version.
Is there any reason for a custom PCB over the current 60% standard? Also, do you have a projected price range yet?
Not all the 60% PCBs have exactly the same position and dimensions on the USB port. The USB slot on the case must be very large if we want to support regular 60% PCBs. Our PCB will use USB C port and I want the slot fits the port perfectly.
Is there an expected price?
Relative price?
The price for the anodizing aluminum kit should be lower than Leaf80. I haven't calculated the cost for customizing gaskets but it shouldn't too much.
Post by: DJSwayde on Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:51:53
Post by: tiydal on Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:54:31
I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.
Good point, I agree with this. +1
Post by: ChrisSwires on Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:56:42
I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.Thirded personally, it allows an aftermarket buyer to pick a hotswap PCB for example for ease. Having said that if you're 100% sold on keeping it proprietary then. Not much to be done and it doesn't effect my overall opinion of the board. Just a preference.
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Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:57:01
If it's got that yellow from the tkl I might be in
Puddsy, I can do any color for you at any time.
Not asking you to buy this one but you can keep it in mind.
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:00:44
I've been waiting for a polycarbonate 60%!! hopefully I can afford this
I do agree that the switch cutouts under the blockers do look bad on the polycarb hhkb. I think it'd be best to offer an hhkb specific plate as well that doesn't have those cutouts as they're not needed.
and please for the love of god don't have iso/ansi plates. iso specific or ansi specific plates are a necessity
That's a good point. The current plate is just a placeholder. I know more and more people want specific plates for different layouts. I may remove the ISO support and provide multiple versions of plates.
Post by: DJSwayde on Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:03:09
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:09:33
The design looks very great :) I would be interested in PC case, PVD Rose, or Rose gold gradient ano!
Hi Olivia, I started thinking seriously about gaskets after the last time you talked to me.
Hope the sound and feel will be as expected.
Post by: trg1234 on Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:15:45
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:23:53
I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.Thirded personally, it allows an aftermarket buyer to pick a hotswap PCB for example for ease. Having said that if you're 100% sold on keeping it proprietary then. Not much to be done and it doesn't effect my overall opinion of the board. Just a preference.
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GSKT-00 and E6-V2 are both great boards and both use proprietary PCBs. That's why I don't think using proprietary PCBs is a very abrupt decision.
The plan for the PCB is: QMK, USB C, MX/ALPS, split/non-split spacebar. It won't be hot-swappable tho if that's the feature you want from other PCBs.
Personally, my current taste really doesn't like the super large USB port cutout.
Change my mind if more people disagree with me. That's the main purpose of the IC.
Post by: ChrisSwires on Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:34:36
Layout choice and ease is my only case for universal PCB, it lowers the cost and the amount of hastle for the GB for you and allows the end user to decide what is and isn't important in a PCB for them (for example I actively prefer mini usb given the amount of them I already have and my lack of appetite for cable managing a second usb cable for swapping).I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.Thirded personally, it allows an aftermarket buyer to pick a hotswap PCB for example for ease. Having said that if you're 100% sold on keeping it proprietary then. Not much to be done and it doesn't effect my overall opinion of the board. Just a preference.
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GSKT-00 and E6-V2 are both great boards and both use proprietary PCBs. That's why I don't think using proprietary PCBs is a very abrupt decision.
The plan for the PCB is: QMK, USB C, MX/ALPS, split/non-split spacebar. It won't be hot-swappable tho if that's the feature you want from other PCBs.
Personally, my current taste really doesn't like the super large USB port cutout.
Change my mind if more people disagree with me. That's the main purpose of the IC.
As I said earlier though. It wouldn't be a reason for me to not purchase, just a preference.
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Post by: laserbeamspewpew on Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:40:18
Post by: xSovereign on Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:40:39
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:47:50
If it's got that yellow from the tkl I might be in
Puddsy, I can do any color for you at any time.
Not asking you to buy this one but you can keep it in mind.
Thanks man. I'll let you know.
Post by: otanishock on Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:53:08
Post by: trg1234 on Sat, 22 December 2018, 15:05:20
Post by: weaston on Sat, 22 December 2018, 15:16:26
GSKT-00 and E6-V2 are both great boards and both use proprietary PCBs.
We used our own pcb for the 00 for very specific fitment reasons. Those reasons do not seem to apply in this case because of how the "gasketing" is being performed.
Just for clarification.
Post by: Zeimus on Sat, 22 December 2018, 15:22:58
Thirded personally, it allows an aftermarket buyer to pick a hotswap PCB for example for ease. Having said that if you're 100% sold on keeping it proprietary then. Not much to be done and it doesn't effect my overall opinion of the board. Just a preference.
Yeah I agree with this.
Post by: dondongler on Sat, 22 December 2018, 15:23:31
Post by: mudcakehoney on Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:03:57
Post by: azharkh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:08:55
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Post by: meiosis on Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:12:47
Post by: dado brat on Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:16:09
Post by: HotRoderX on Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:24:30
Post by: Remsky on Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:40:06
Unless there is a hindrance to topside usb that could happen.
Just my 2cents.
Post by: ptiede on Sat, 22 December 2018, 17:15:21
Post by: o3okevin on Sat, 22 December 2018, 17:45:54
was blown away with my fox leaf 80 so in for this one even though I don't like 60%
How I feel exactly, definitely down for a leaf 60 :)
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 17:55:47
E6 had 19mm bottom row spacing and 00 had the gasket in between pcb and plate, so they needed custom pcbs. The mounting on this design doesnt interfere with standard 60% pcbs, so you could just accomodate for those instead.
Unless there is a hindrance to topside usb that could happen.
Just my 2cents.
GSKT-00 and E6-V2 are both great boards and both use proprietary PCBs.
We used our own pcb for the 00 for very specific fitment reasons. Those reasons do not seem to apply in this case because of how the "gasketing" is being performed.
Just for clarification.
Thanks for clarifying. I said the reasons why I want to use a proprietary PCB. Mentioning 00 and E6 was just for providing evidence that 60% proprietary PCBs are not that rare. I believe E6 and 00 both have good reasons as well.
There are always tradeoffs. I can't say which option is definitely better than another. I'm glad people brought it up and discuss it in details. I'll make decisions based on the discussion here.
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 18:03:19
I love everything about this. When are you looking at running it?
I don't care much about the timing so the GB will be launched when everything is settled.
The overall design is finished. Next, I'll make some small changed on the design and make several prototypes.
It can be very fast if I'm satisfied with the result.
Post by: azharkh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 18:07:14
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Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 18:07:37
looks really good. i don't mind the proprietary pcb as long as i can have hhkb with split space bar. it would be really awesome if this turns out extra heavy, i'm talking like 2kg+
like full brass heavy?
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 18:10:54
this would probably add a bit to the cost but have you thought of maybe having a universal cutout but also having the option of using an adapter of sorts that is a perfect fit for a proprietary PCB? that way you can have the perfect fit that you want while giving people the option of universal compatibility
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universal cutout is large and ugly. That's the main reason I don't like it. Keeping the universal cutout then there's no reason I want to make a proprietary PCB.
Post by: azharkh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 18:13:21
I meant like you could have an adapter that would fit into the universal hole so it would no longer be universal allowing a proprietary PCB to fit perfectly in it while giving people the option to remove the adapter, making the hole universal again.this would probably add a bit to the cost but have you thought of maybe having a universal cutout but also having the option of using an adapter of sorts that is a perfect fit for a proprietary PCB? that way you can have the perfect fit that you want while giving people the option of universal compatibility
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universal cutout is large and ugly. That's the main reason I don't like it. Keeping the universal cutout then there's no reason I want to make a proprietary PCB.
not sure if that made sense but hopefully you get my idea
that being said I do prefer tight cutouts
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Post by: cldskt on Sat, 22 December 2018, 18:36:09
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 18:46:50
I meant like you could have an adapter that would fit into the universal hole so it would no longer be universal allowing a proprietary PCB to fit perfectly in it while giving people the option to remove the adapter, making the hole universal again.
not sure if that made sense but hopefully you get my idea
that being said I do prefer tight cutouts
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Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, that's a solution. However, the border of the current design is not that large that put an adapter there. Enlarging the border and using an adapter is too much just for making a tight cutout imo.
Post by: airlangga07 on Sat, 22 December 2018, 18:50:55
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Post by: azharkh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 18:53:57
it's definitely not ideal and I too would prefer to have a non universal cutout but based on the responses it's starting to seem like a necessary compromiseI meant like you could have an adapter that would fit into the universal hole so it would no longer be universal allowing a proprietary PCB to fit perfectly in it while giving people the option to remove the adapter, making the hole universal again.
not sure if that made sense but hopefully you get my idea
that being said I do prefer tight cutouts
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Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, that's a solution. However, the border of the current design is not that large that put an adapter there. Enlarging the border and using an adapter is too much just for making a tight cutout imo.
edit: I had an another idea: instead of using an adapter, perhaps it could also work as a badge/accent of sorts. like you'd slot it into place (think GBA cartridge style-ish) and it'd look like an accent or badge and you'd have one that had a universal hole and one that had a proprietary hole. that wouldn't require enlarging the border and it would add a design element. just an idea.
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Post by: vtachkov on Sat, 22 December 2018, 19:14:44
Post by: Albatross on Sat, 22 December 2018, 19:29:41
Will there also be PC plates available?
Post by: weaston on Sat, 22 December 2018, 20:05:10
Thanks for clarifying. I said the reasons why I want to use a proprietary PCB. Mentioning 00 and E6 was just for providing evidence that 60% proprietary PCBs are not that rare. I believe E6 and 00 both have good reasons as well.
There are always tradeoffs. I can't say which option is definitely better than another. I'm glad people brought it up and discuss it in details. I'll make decisions based on the discussion here.
Yes agreed I can't say either. Regardless this looks really awesome and the Leaf quality impressed the absolute hell out of me, so more power to you guys in whatever way you choose. I hope it turns out great. :)
Post by: DJSwayde on Sat, 22 December 2018, 20:12:06
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Sat, 22 December 2018, 20:40:41
Post by: Deathcaps on Sat, 22 December 2018, 20:54:49
Post by: trg1234 on Sat, 22 December 2018, 21:07:58
Initially I was on board with universal PCB (and still wouldn't be mad if that happened). But after someone brought up the M60 USB port and how clean it looked i think I kind of agree with proprietary PCB now if the end result is looking super clean like that one did. Kind of wanted to make this board a hotswap, but I don't mind using another board for that.
Honestly it's just a tossup between aesthetics and customizability I believe at this point. I'm all for aesthetics, but I also want features that I'm not sure other people want such as hotswap and usb c compatibility.
Post by: Gati on Sat, 22 December 2018, 21:40:14
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 21:48:06
Would you offer fixed ISO plate?
Only if there are enough interests. I doubt it now so no. Sorry.
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 21:51:30
Interested in a PC HHKB variant :)
Will there also be PC plates available?
I haven't thought about it tbh.
I asked the factory to source PC materials and they didn't even find clear PC materials for the case until now. They only sourced opaque materials.
PC plate + gasket sounds interesting. Let me see if it's possible.
Post by: senter on Sat, 22 December 2018, 22:07:10
This is gonna sound pretty ignorant, but couldn’t it be possible to design the case around a PCB already on the market (like a DZ60)?
I believe most people here are familiar with this but let me clarify it to those who don't.
Most 60% PCBs, including DZ60, have the same USB port position. It's in the middle of the ESC key and 1 key.
Many 60% cases were designed for supporting these PCBs.
However, many PCBs have different USB female port with slightly different dimensions, some use USB C ports, some even have slightly off-center positions.
As a result, in order to support all the 60% PCBs, the USB port cutout must be very large.
What you asked is to support a specific 60% PCB. What some other people asked is to support most 60% PCBs with a large cutout. What I intended to do is to make a perfect cutout like on M60-A like someone mentioned.
Post by: gabetjh on Sat, 22 December 2018, 22:09:31
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Post by: ian13 on Sat, 22 December 2018, 22:39:41
Post by: temp0321 on Sat, 22 December 2018, 22:45:04
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sat, 22 December 2018, 23:06:46
If the price is in the 250 range, count me in.
Post by: HardcoreDesk on Sat, 22 December 2018, 23:34:12
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 22 December 2018, 23:41:17
but also, its your board, and there are plenty of good boards with their own PCBs, as was mentioned before
just depends on who your ideal buyer is for the kit
Post by: meiosis on Sat, 22 December 2018, 23:48:33
This is gonna sound pretty ignorant, but couldn’t it be possible to design the case around a PCB already on the market (like a DZ60)?
I believe most people here are familiar with this but let me clarify it to those who don't.
Most 60% PCBs, including DZ60, have the same USB port position. It's in the middle of the ESC key and 1 key.
Many 60% cases were designed for supporting these PCBs.
However, many PCBs have different USB female port with slightly different dimensions, some use USB C ports, some even have slightly off-center positions.
As a result, in order to support all the 60% PCBs, the USB port cutout must be very large.
What you asked is to support a specific 60% PCB. What some other people asked is to support most 60% PCBs with a large cutout. What I intended to do is to make a perfect cutout like on M60-A like someone mentioned.
I think a good option is to add usb C-> miniusb converter/adapter since they are so cheap haha. and since USB c looks nicer with smaller cut out it should be okay.
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 22 December 2018, 23:59:01
This is gonna sound pretty ignorant, but couldn’t it be possible to design the case around a PCB already on the market (like a DZ60)?
I believe most people here are familiar with this but let me clarify it to those who don't.
Most 60% PCBs, including DZ60, have the same USB port position. It's in the middle of the ESC key and 1 key.
Many 60% cases were designed for supporting these PCBs.
However, many PCBs have different USB female port with slightly different dimensions, some use USB C ports, some even have slightly off-center positions.
As a result, in order to support all the 60% PCBs, the USB port cutout must be very large.
What you asked is to support a specific 60% PCB. What some other people asked is to support most 60% PCBs with a large cutout. What I intended to do is to make a perfect cutout like on M60-A like someone mentioned.
I think a good option is to add usb C-> miniusb converter/adapter since they are so cheap haha. and since USB c looks nicer with smaller cut out it should be okay.
this is also a good idea
Post by: dantambok on Sun, 23 December 2018, 00:08:05
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 23 December 2018, 00:39:21
Sure the USB port cutout is not pretty if all types of Mini-USB, USB-C universal PCBs are supported. It would be a "close" compromise if it supports one type only, for example USB-C, when tight cutout is preferred.
Take a step further, if we go to proprietary PCB, the cutout should be right in the middle for aesthetics, like M60, Viper, E6, etc.. I think it's also a good choice for a tight cutout in this case.
IMO it will go too far to have a usb cutout on the right, which looks like a bit randomly positioned in current render picture.
Post by: bthezebra on Sun, 23 December 2018, 00:57:12
Post by: Rafa_n on Sun, 23 December 2018, 07:55:02
Post by: dado brat on Sun, 23 December 2018, 07:55:56
looks really good. i don't mind the proprietary pcb as long as i can have hhkb with split space bar. it would be really awesome if this turns out extra heavy, i'm talking like 2kg+
like full brass heavy?
Well, I was thinking about something in the range of the M60-a with internal weight (2.2kg I think). I don't know much about PVD brass, but if you could manage to make those dank colors (like in the renders) i would be really intrigued to try full brass. Another option would be a 3-5mm brass plate as an extra or something like that
Post by: trg1234 on Sun, 23 December 2018, 08:35:49
Post by: 1023andy on Sun, 23 December 2018, 18:59:13
Post by: mnpq.raven on Sun, 23 December 2018, 19:24:30
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 23 December 2018, 20:11:19
Post by: 112227 on Sun, 23 December 2018, 23:16:58
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Mon, 24 December 2018, 00:17:10
Post by: 112227 on Mon, 24 December 2018, 03:50:21
Post by: beekey on Mon, 24 December 2018, 04:26:59
Post by: mnpq.raven on Mon, 24 December 2018, 04:30:01
Would prefer support for standard 60%, but I see the point of going for style. Sadly, PCBs break and then you have an expensive piece of art to look at.What do you mean PCBs break ? They are not going to snap like toothpicks easily
As long as it supports split space I would still be interested. But please provide the option to buy a replacement PCB.
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Post by: beekey on Mon, 24 December 2018, 05:26:31
Sadly, PCBs break and then it is hard to get replacements. As I don‘t see the back of the case that often, I vote for funtionality over style. So, I would prefer standard 60% support, but as long as we can get additional PCBs I would be in.
Post by: Legoo on Mon, 24 December 2018, 05:27:38
Post by: beekey on Mon, 24 December 2018, 05:31:43
Sorry, break = die. I damaged one while switching from one case to another. Could not find the cause.Would prefer support for standard 60%, but I see the point of going for style. Sadly, PCBs break and then you have an expensive piece of art to look at.What do you mean PCBs break ? They are not going to snap like toothpicks easily
As long as it supports split space I would still be interested. But please provide the option to buy a replacement PCB.
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Post by: senter on Mon, 24 December 2018, 08:11:49
will u plan to make it hot swappable or at least design the pcb to allow socket installation?
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I may provide two versions of PCBs. One supports multiple layouts and without sockets. One supports a single layout and with sockets.
Post by: senter on Mon, 24 December 2018, 08:16:57
What I wouldn't recommend though is an ALPS compatible circuit board, because the PCB holes get too wide and you'd need too much sodder to fill them.
Is that very bad? Solders are cheap.
I'd also like it to be Mini USB and not USBC as I have has problems with the latter being too delicate.
any evidence USB C is more delicate than Mini USB? I always thought Mini is delicate tbh
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 24 December 2018, 08:30:16
any evidence USB C is more delicate than Mini USB? I always thought Mini is delicate tbh
Agreed, after about a year of switching between dailies using Mini and C, C feels way more robust; not to mention it's infinitely more convenient, but everyone knows that already.
Post by: DJSwayde on Mon, 24 December 2018, 08:31:46
Post by: senter on Mon, 24 December 2018, 08:34:45
Gasket mount 60%. Nice.
Sure the USB port cutout is not pretty if all types of Mini-USB, USB-C universal PCBs are supported. It would be a "close" compromise if it supports one type only, for example USB-C, when tight cutout is preferred.
Take a step further, if we go to proprietary PCB, the cutout should be right in the middle for aesthetics, like M60, Viper, E6, etc.. I think it's also a good choice for a tight cutout in this case.
IMO it will go too far to have a usb cutout on the right, which looks like a bit randomly positioned in current render picture.
My concern is, even with the same type of USB port, the position of the port can also be different. I've noticed this issue on several 60% Mini USB PCBs. Not sure about USB C PCBs on the market.
Assume we will go with proprietary PCB, is middle port much better than left/right port for aesthetics? I think it's very subjective. I placed the port on the right side for a very simple reason: the USB port on Leaf 80 was on the right side. Since they're in the same series, it was an easy decision. I didn't think through it tbh.
Post by: mnpq.raven on Mon, 24 December 2018, 08:45:59
For the proprietary PCBs themselves as long as qmk is supported i wouldn't mind much
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Post by: senter on Mon, 24 December 2018, 08:54:49
Will there be any proxies or will it be zfrontier only?
It's too early to say but I prefer to work with zFrontier
Post by: senter on Mon, 24 December 2018, 08:57:01
Is this compatible with alps switches? White leaf60 and aek keycap would look nice
Sure, it will support ALPS switches. I don't think it will match AEK caps tho. AEK caps match best with cases with curved front like on Lunar
Post by: senter on Mon, 24 December 2018, 08:58:25
Can someone eli5 what E-coating is?
* Electrophoretic coating (e-coating) is technically similar to powder coating but way smoother, even smoother than most anodizing.
Post by: senter on Mon, 24 December 2018, 09:04:11
I also agree with the 'middle port proprietary PCBs or universal cutouts' opinion, as a right port proprietary PCB seems like a rather random spot, at least to me.
For the proprietary PCBs themselves as long as qmk is supported i wouldn't mind much
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
OK, I must admit I get the same sense about the symmetrical aesthetic now. The right port is silly.
So now it's just the choice between middle port proprietary PCBs for aesthetic and left universal port for convenience.
Post by: Master_Zebra on Mon, 24 December 2018, 09:40:10
Post by: dantambok on Mon, 24 December 2018, 09:49:23
Post by: cldskt on Mon, 24 December 2018, 09:51:15
I also agree with the 'middle port proprietary PCBs or universal cutouts' opinion, as a right port proprietary PCB seems like a rather random spot, at least to me.
For the proprietary PCBs themselves as long as qmk is supported i wouldn't mind much
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
OK, I must admit I get the same sense about the symmetrical aesthetic now. The right port is silly.
So now it's just the choice between middle port proprietary PCBs for aesthetic and left universal port for convenience.
I’m fine with either, just no hotswap for proprietary PCB for me.
Post by: ptiede on Mon, 24 December 2018, 10:32:02
Post by: juaninamilli on Mon, 24 December 2018, 10:44:09
Post by: tiydal on Mon, 24 December 2018, 11:42:43
I wont be making mine ISO, but a good idea would be to make the plate design open then it can be modified and if someone wants a custom plate they can get one cut somewhere like laserboost (unless the design means the plate has to be cnc'd etc)Would you offer fixed ISO plate?
Only if there are enough interests. I doubt it now so no. Sorry.
I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.Thirded personally, it allows an aftermarket buyer to pick a hotswap PCB for example for ease. Having said that if you're 100% sold on keeping it proprietary then. Not much to be done and it doesn't effect my overall opinion of the board. Just a preference.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
GSKT-00 and E6-V2 are both great boards and both use proprietary PCBs. That's why I don't think using proprietary PCBs is a very abrupt decision.
The plan for the PCB is: QMK, USB C, MX/ALPS, split/non-split spacebar. It won't be hot-swappable tho if that's the feature you want from other PCBs.
Personally, my current taste really doesn't like the super large USB port cutout.
Change my mind if more people disagree with me. That's the main purpose of the IC.
Whilst I like the tight port etc; I think a universal PCB has more positives that outweigh the beauty of the clean cut usb port,
- You can pick and choose which one you want
- The Runner can choose to not include a pcb, making it easier for the runner
- Replacing the PCB is easier
- Buyer can choose anything he wants from a range of PCB's (hs60, dz60 type c, dz60 mini, zeal60, kbd6x)
- Buyer can use what they already have (e.g i have 2 dz60 waiting to be used in my drawer)
Also, personally, I'm not a fan of switch mounting that supports both mx and alps.
Post by: ejewell89 on Mon, 24 December 2018, 13:28:48
I think if that happens, I'm in
Post by: otanishock on Tue, 25 December 2018, 06:33:09
Post by: DJSwayde on Tue, 25 December 2018, 07:34:34
Whilst I like the tight port etc; I think a universal PCB has more positives that outweigh the beauty of the clean cut usb port,
- You can pick and choose which one you want
- The Runner can choose to not include a pcb, making it easier for the runner
- Replacing the PCB is easier
- Buyer can choose anything he wants from a range of PCB's (hs60, dz60 type c, dz60 mini, zeal60, kbd6x)
- Buyer can use what they already have (e.g i have 2 dz60 waiting to be used in my drawer)
I agree with this post 100%.
If this board supports universal PCB, I will like be in for one.
I have enough boards with proprietary PCBs, really don't need or want anymore.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Post by: DJSwayde on Tue, 25 December 2018, 07:47:59
Post by: rope on Tue, 25 December 2018, 10:49:52
Post by: LuiKang on Tue, 25 December 2018, 12:07:58
Post by: xantiema on Tue, 25 December 2018, 13:11:28
Post by: mnpq.raven on Tue, 25 December 2018, 13:14:34
Is it possible to make this compatible with arrow keys? Would be instant buy from meIt is a hard thing to ask for tbh, for *dedicated* arrows you should just go with 65%
You can always program for arrow keys with qmk tho
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Post by: xantiema on Tue, 25 December 2018, 13:30:30
Post by: mnpq.raven on Tue, 25 December 2018, 13:38:04
Post by: mnpq.raven on Tue, 25 December 2018, 13:38:56
How disruptive is it, making it compatible?No i mean the arrow keys from either universal or proprietary 60% PCBs, not from it being compatible or not. If you want arrow keys from a universal PCB then there is a 2u left shift layout from the dz60 layout, and even that being the case it's not a very popular layout among the 60% layouts to choose from
Don't get me wrong but my point is that i find that if you want arrows then 65% is a much better option, ofcourse you can fit a arrow key layout into a 60% pcb but it's not the whole pont of a 60% keyboard
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Post by: dorf on Tue, 25 December 2018, 13:59:51
As for pcb, it doesn't matter to me as long as it supports QMK, ATmega32u4, DFU bootloader.
When it comes to arrow keys etc. so no thanks. It would erode the plate a lot. What I mean is that ISO already reduces the amount of sheet metal. I very much wish that ISO is supported.
Is there a possibility that drawings on the plate are released in connection with the purchase?
Post by: Abec13 on Tue, 25 December 2018, 14:47:42
Post by: Abec13 on Wed, 26 December 2018, 03:00:58
Post by: tiydal on Wed, 26 December 2018, 09:26:28
Would like a proprietary PCB here. I think, if it's possible, Hotswap would be awesome if you decide to cut out ISO. At least for people going HHKB or WKL.
If it had universal pcb support you wouldn’t have to wish as there is the Kbd6x and HS60 pcb already made for that.
If it is universal pcb I’ll be getting a WKL one with split backspace, so I’ll probs use my hs60 :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: DJSwayde on Wed, 26 December 2018, 09:28:22
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 26 December 2018, 12:43:31
If the camo anode happens count me in for sure.
Post by: fireworm on Thu, 27 December 2018, 00:54:33
Post by: nasp on Thu, 27 December 2018, 01:25:35
Post by: ian13 on Thu, 27 December 2018, 01:37:25
Post by: dondongler on Thu, 27 December 2018, 12:06:01
Post by: Abec13 on Thu, 27 December 2018, 12:31:03
Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 12:59:54
I like the design. A very nice case.
As for pcb, it doesn't matter to me as long as it supports QMK, ATmega32u4, DFU bootloader.
When it comes to arrow keys etc. so no thanks. It would erode the plate a lot. What I mean is that ISO already reduces the amount of sheet metal. I very much wish that ISO is supported.
Is there a possibility that drawings on the plate are released in connection with the purchase?
ISO was supported in every previous GB, but not in this one.
Yes. I always share the plate files to no matter who asks.
Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:00:38
Split Space bar support?
Yes
Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:14:17
Since there is so much discussion about the PCB type, would you mind creating a poll to see what the interest is? After all, is that not the purpose of this IC thread?
Thanks for the suggestion. This IC has already served its turn so far.
I prefer to discuss in the posts rather than launching a poll. Poll is better when the options are very clear in the very beginning.
The original USB port was on the right side. Now it will be either on the left side for universal support or in the middle for a proprietary PCB.
These two options were not clear in the very beginning.
I think right now we're very aware of all the pros and cons on either option. I'll make the final decision based on the discusses and my own opinions.
More suggestions on other aspects (colors, finishes, angle) are much more needed next.
Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:14:49
May I ask what is the projected front height of this board? Hopefully, it's below 20mm with feet.
It's 19mm without feet and 20mm with feet.
Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:15:18
If you do go proprietary pcb can we get one of those sweet relief cuts?
Do you mean like on GSKT-00?
Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:16:05
Any idea on a price yet?
We can know the price only after prototyping.
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:21:29
Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:22:06
Post by: dondongler on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:25:42
If you do go proprietary pcb can we get one of those sweet relief cuts?
Do you mean like on GSKT-00?
Yes
Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:26:06
The lower the angle the better on Koala style sides. I think you listed 5 degrees, which I would prefer. Were you going to offer matte white as an option?
E-white and MAO white are all matte white if I understand correctly.
I haven't try to list the color options yet for Leaf 60. There are not too many discussions that can inspire me in this thread.
I'll try some new colors/finishes that haven't been used before, as always.
E-white looks pretty popular in Leaf 80 GB so it's also possible to be available on Leaf 60.
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:30:41
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:33:24
You should make it center usb and eagle/viper v2 compatible :dreaming:
Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:35:44
If you do go proprietary pcb can we get one of those sweet relief cuts?
Do you mean like on GSKT-00?
Yes
🤔 I doubt the effect of the relief cuts tbh. I don't own a 00 so cannot verify it by myself.
There is very little information about it. I incline to believe it's not a good feature that has been generally accepted.
In this case, I would not consider this feature because otherwise it's more like a direct copy without thinking.
Post by: ChrisSwires on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:37:53
PCB relief cuts primarily come into their own with a half, or indeed no plate, the addition of a full plate largely (not entirely) neuters them so I'd agree generally.If you do go proprietary pcb can we get one of those sweet relief cuts?
Do you mean like on GSKT-00?
YesI doubt the effect of the relief cuts tbh. I don't own a 00 so cannot verify it by myself.
There is very little information about it. I incline to believe it's not a good feature that has been generally accepted.
In this case, I would not consider this feature because otherwise it's more like a direct copy without thinking.
Source: GSKT-00
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: azharkh on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:39:06
The lower the angle the better on Koala style sides. I think you listed 5 degrees, which I would prefer. Were you going to offer matte white as an option?+1 to 4/5 degree angle
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Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:42:40
Have you decided what rubber type you're going to be using? Soft? Hard?
We are testing different types.
Post by: senter on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:47:55
PCB relief cuts primarily come into their own with a half, or indeed no plate, the addition of a full plate largely (not entirely) neuters them so I'd agree generally.
Source: GSKT-00
That makes much more sense. The relief cuts could also be interesting when the kit is PCB top mount.
I was also thinking about 1.5mm plate only around switches and 0.8/1mm everywhere else. That's another story tho.
Post by: ChrisSwires on Thu, 27 December 2018, 13:50:58
Now. A variable depth plate. That gets me all kinds of intrigued.PCB relief cuts primarily come into their own with a half, or indeed no plate, the addition of a full plate largely (not entirely) neuters them so I'd agree generally.
Source: GSKT-00
That makes much more sense. The relief cuts could also be interesting when the kit is PCB top mount.
I was also thinking about 1.5mm plate only around switches and 0.8/1mm everywhere else. That's another story tho.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: DasGnome on Thu, 27 December 2018, 14:22:01
PCB relief cuts primarily come into their own with a half, or indeed no plate, the addition of a full plate largely (not entirely) neuters them so I'd agree generally.
Source: GSKT-00
That makes much more sense. The relief cuts could also be interesting when the kit is PCB top mount.
I was also thinking about 1.5mm plate only around switches and 0.8/1mm everywhere else. That's another story tho.
PCB top mount would be tempting....
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 27 December 2018, 14:42:21
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 27 December 2018, 15:06:53
Post by: weaston on Thu, 27 December 2018, 21:53:28
🤔 I doubt the effect of the relief cuts tbh. I don't own a 00 so cannot verify it by myself.
There is very little information about it. I incline to believe it's not a good feature that has been generally accepted.
In this case, I would not consider this feature because otherwise it's more like a direct copy without thinking.
Please do not copy what we did without an understanding of why it is there and how it influences the board as a whole. The 00 is not the end all be all gasket board and there are many things that need changing and refinement. We did things for very specific reasons and have a lot to learn, so copying bits and pieces of the 00 indiscriminately will only lead to problems in your own design because the two boards are inherently different.
Post by: mdlt97 on Thu, 27 December 2018, 23:09:10
Post by: senter on Fri, 28 December 2018, 09:00:30
🤔 I doubt the effect of the relief cuts tbh. I don't own a 00 so cannot verify it by myself.
There is very little information about it. I incline to believe it's not a good feature that has been generally accepted.
In this case, I would not consider this feature because otherwise it's more like a direct copy without thinking.
Please do not copy what we did without an understanding of why it is there and how it influences the board as a whole. The 00 is not the end all be all gasket board and there are many things that need changing and refinement. We did things for very specific reasons and have a lot to learn, so copying bits and pieces of the 00 indiscriminately will only lead to problems in your own design because the two boards are inherently different.
That's exactly what I was saying. Someone asked me to copy a feature of 00. I said no.
Post by: weaston on Fri, 28 December 2018, 09:13:13
Post by: clasicks on Fri, 28 December 2018, 09:39:32
Why are you on such a mission to dismiss/discredit everything gasket related about this board, you didn't invent gasket, you made a board for people who couldn't afford or get a 356 mini, that is all you did, not sure why you talk about it like its the second coming of Jesus himself, just relax and let someone run a Gb how they please and let them do what they want, as it is THEIR board
its almost like you didn't read anything that weaston said... take your predisposed salt somewhere else
Post by: taropaste on Fri, 28 December 2018, 11:06:42
Post by: dondongler on Fri, 28 December 2018, 11:10:10
Post by: Rumai on Fri, 28 December 2018, 12:34:59
BTW, as some guys requested in the Leaf 80 thread, there will also be a matching numpad available
YES
YES
Post by: HardcoreDesk on Fri, 28 December 2018, 21:46:35
Post by: finalarcadia on Fri, 28 December 2018, 22:05:43
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Post by: azharkh on Sat, 29 December 2018, 03:28:45
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: metalliccharles on Sat, 29 December 2018, 11:08:03
Post by: nasp on Sat, 29 December 2018, 12:24:24
Post by: fireworm on Mon, 31 December 2018, 23:23:00
If you could do split space alps, omg. I'd buy like 10!
Post by: slxdegrees on Tue, 01 January 2019, 05:01:40
Is it possible to have a proprietary PCB but also keep the USB C connector on the left side? That way, one could still put in a DZ60 with USB C? I think it's a good compromise and will allow folks some other options for PCBsI think the purpose of the proprietary PCB is so he can have the center port...
Post by: Vigrith on Tue, 01 January 2019, 13:03:23
Post by: ArchDill on Tue, 01 January 2019, 14:36:52
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/HANs5Ml.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/kdJYkXr.jpg)
Simply put, this is an IC for 60% version of Leaf 80 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97011.0).
This IC is not for checking interests because we will run it for sure.
The purpose of this IC is for collecting suggestions/opinions on the current design and future available options.
Some potential new features:
- New plate mounting method. We've been using top mount for quite a long time. Now we're trying to figure out how to play with gaskets. Not sure if the current design can be called gasket mount or not.
- Anodizing: new regular colors, gradient anodizing, camo ano, hard ano
- E-coating: new colors, non matte finish (the original e-white and e-black are all matte finish)
- PVD brass case: It was a pain to deal with PVD because the quality is hard to control. Exclusive found a reliable factory that can do PVD in very high quality. It might be worth trying. Really appreciate his help.
- PC case: Anyone interested in opaque PC cases? I'm not sure about the aesthetic aspect but the PC cases sound different from metal cases.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/8FNuseW.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/c8BJWeW.png)
The current design is to attach 4 long strips of self-adhesive gaskets on both the top case and the bottom case.
The gaskets have screw holes on them. They will be compressed a little bit when the screws are tightened.
The front and rear sides of the plate will be sandwich mounted in the middle.
The PC leaf is very tempting. Will there be an hhkb layout plate? It triggers me when you can see the plate under the PC and it has an opening for switches.
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Tue, 01 January 2019, 16:24:17
Post by: DocNoc on Wed, 02 January 2019, 00:38:32
Post by: DasGnome on Wed, 02 January 2019, 12:23:28
Post by: senter on Wed, 02 January 2019, 16:35:48
Is there a picture of all supported layouts for mx? Layouts for alps?
If you could do split space alps, omg. I'd buy like 10!
1. None hot-swappable + MX layout:
(https://i.imgur.com/bf2GReA.jpg)
2. None hot-swappable + ALPS layout:
(https://i.imgur.com/BC0vU3V.jpg)
3. Hot-swappable + MX layout:
(https://i.imgur.com/6HzLcCr.jpg)
BTW, what keycaps do you want to use on split space alps? I didn't know that's a thing
Post by: senter on Wed, 02 January 2019, 16:42:46
I might've missed it but do you have a tentative ETA for the GB for this to open up, Senter?
Hi Vigrith, it can happen as early as in Jan. I have made several prototypes. One opaque white PC case is bad. All the others look great to me. Everything should be settled soon.
The only thing concerns me rn is the CNY. The long holiday of CNY can lead to serious delays.
Post by: senter on Wed, 02 January 2019, 16:43:29
Will there be an hhkb layout plate?
Yes
Post by: senter on Wed, 02 January 2019, 16:43:58
Is there an estimate on price yet?
Not yet
Post by: senter on Wed, 02 January 2019, 16:45:10
The pcb will allow for standard Cherry/GMK style stabs correct? Only asking because I'm ignorant and don't know if the fact that the PCB will be Alps compatible will change anything else about the PCB design.
It will support PCB mount Cherry/GMK stabs.
Post by: DJSwayde on Wed, 02 January 2019, 16:46:35
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Post by: senter on Wed, 02 January 2019, 16:46:56
Any plans for a PC plate to go with the PC case? :)
I'll decide after testing the prototypes. I wish that can be available.
Post by: forevermadrigal on Wed, 02 January 2019, 16:47:18
Post by: o3okevin on Wed, 02 January 2019, 17:29:54
Post by: fireworm on Wed, 02 January 2019, 17:40:07
Awesome, I'd be using Nexus sliders with some SA caps, so cherry stabs work. (but I have adapters for alps stabs too).Is there a picture of all supported layouts for mx? Layouts for alps?
If you could do split space alps, omg. I'd buy like 10!
1. None hot-swappable + MX layout:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/bf2GReA.jpg)
2. None hot-swappable + ALPS layout:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/BC0vU3V.jpg)
3. Hot-swappable + MX layout:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/6HzLcCr.jpg)
BTW, what keycaps do you want to use on split space alps? I didn't know that's a thing
Layout (for me), would be: split backspace, split right shift.
Splitting a 6.25u Spacebar into 2.25, 1.25, 2.75. (followed by four 1.25)
Or splitting a 7u into 2.25, 1, 2.75, 1.
...Not sure how possible this is.
Post by: ArchDill on Wed, 02 January 2019, 17:49:15
Will there be an hhkb layout plate?
Yes
Sweet! I am excited about this! I have been wanting to try a PC build.
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 02 January 2019, 20:00:06
Hi Vigrith, it can happen as early as in Jan. I have made several prototypes. One opaque white PC case is bad. All the others look great to me. Everything should be settled soon.
The only thing concerns me rn is the CNY. The long holiday of CNY can lead to serious delays.
Hey Senter, alright that sounds good - thank you for sharing, I appreciate the heads up and yea CNY can be quite the obstacle as has been proven many times.
I'm very much looking forward to it, especially given the fact you confirmed there'll be a dedicated HHKB plate - that'll look great with the PC case, PC case + brass is beautiful.
Post by: dantambok on Wed, 02 January 2019, 20:26:14
Post by: temp0321 on Wed, 02 January 2019, 21:03:46
Post by: ejewell89 on Wed, 02 January 2019, 21:24:47
225 125 275
And the inverse
275 125 225
Post by: trg1234 on Wed, 02 January 2019, 22:02:47
Post by: slxdegrees on Wed, 02 January 2019, 22:05:13
From reading I think there's more people who would benefit from the universal pcb option more than the prorpietary one personally.Better pray the pcb doesn't fail then
Post by: befbef on Wed, 02 January 2019, 22:34:25
Post by: spyruf on Wed, 02 January 2019, 23:55:33
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Thu, 03 January 2019, 02:25:05
Unless the board was based around DZ60 and the tight port was modeled around an already established and easy to get PCB (which I think is a pretty good idea)
Post by: tex_live_utility on Thu, 03 January 2019, 04:54:26
Post by: LuiKang on Thu, 03 January 2019, 07:18:38
HHKB layout + splitted spacebar + side/underglow = I'll reserve two.
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 03 January 2019, 08:19:26
Is there a picture of all supported layouts for mx? Layouts for alps?
If you could do split space alps, omg. I'd buy like 10!
1. None hot-swappable + MX layout:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/bf2GReA.jpg)
2. None hot-swappable + ALPS layout:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/BC0vU3V.jpg)
3. Hot-swappable + MX layout:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/6HzLcCr.jpg)
BTW, what keycaps do you want to use on split space alps? I didn't know that's a thing
Post by: spyruf on Thu, 03 January 2019, 09:51:46
Post by: yicaoyimu on Fri, 04 January 2019, 00:38:33
Post by: etong415 on Fri, 04 January 2019, 01:43:32
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: ian13 on Sun, 06 January 2019, 09:53:44
But it would still be okay if you decide to have a proprietary PCB with a center port location. :thumb:
I would just like to clarify some things:
1. For the type of gasket, have you decided on the thickness as well as the hardness of the rubber that you will use?
2. I am also a bit concerned on the sides of the plate (left and right) without the rubber gaskets. I hope the tolerances will be tight enough so that it won't touch the bottom and top halves of the case when fully
mounted/screwed.
Hmm... Also, is it too early to ask for the timeline (at least rough estimate) of this gb? Slightly excited on that PC gasket-mount board. :p
Anyhow, good luck!
Post by: senter on Sun, 06 January 2019, 11:40:04
Any more info on the gaskets?
(https://i.imgur.com/vlKZfb9.jpg)
The gaskets I'm testing are 1.5mm thick clear strips. The screws will go through the bottom case, one gasket, plate, another gasket, then the top case.
Post by: senter on Sun, 06 January 2019, 11:41:51
Another thing that would be interesting is if the weight is the same as the leaf 80. That way they are replaceable / swappable.
The weights are same.
Post by: senter on Sun, 06 January 2019, 11:50:33
Hopefully, this would support universal 60% PCB so we can choose whatever PCB we want to use as well as ease of replacement if anything happens.
But it would still be okay if you decide to have a proprietary PCB with a center port location. :thumb:
I would just like to clarify some things:
1. For the type of gasket, have you decided on the thickness as well as the hardness of the rubber that you will use?
2. I am also a bit concerned on the sides of the plate (left and right) without the rubber gaskets. I hope the tolerances will be tight enough so that it won't touch the bottom and top halves of the case when fully
mounted/screwed.
Hmm... Also, is it too early to ask for the timeline (at least rough estimate) of this gb? Slightly excited on that PC gasket-mount board. :p
Anyhow, good luck!
Thanks.
1. The thickness is 1.5mm. Rubber strips are not as springy as rubber rings. I don't know how to measure it tho.
2. It's not gonna happen at least for aluminum plates. I'll test the PC plates later. I assume there won't be any problems.
I'm planning to launch the GB before CNY and estimation of the shipping date is in April.
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 06 January 2019, 15:27:25
I'm planning to launch the GB before CNY and estimation of the shipping date is in April.
Very nice, look forward to it!
Post by: ian13 on Sun, 06 January 2019, 18:03:21
Post by: dantambok on Sun, 06 January 2019, 18:06:06
Post by: PikaJoyce on Sun, 06 January 2019, 18:30:44
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 06 January 2019, 21:00:01
Any more info on the gaskets?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vlKZfb9.jpg)
The gaskets I'm testing are 1.5mm thick clear strips. The screws will go through the bottom case, one gasket, plate, another gasket, then the top case.
The prototype looks really nice. Would love to see its typing video.
Post by: blizzara01 on Sun, 06 January 2019, 22:00:13
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 07 January 2019, 08:01:54
PC is more expensive than alu, right? Might try PC
Boards that offer both generally have them at the same price point, though a couple well known manufacturers have stated PC is generally slightly harder to machine than aluminium.
Post by: mnpq.raven on Mon, 07 January 2019, 08:52:36
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Post by: ArchDill on Tue, 08 January 2019, 07:47:52
Whew....
Post by: DJSwayde on Tue, 08 January 2019, 07:53:04
Post by: juaninamilli on Tue, 08 January 2019, 08:11:43
https://imgur.com/a/abfRyVH
Whew....
Post by: ArchDill on Tue, 08 January 2019, 08:14:27
That looks amazing! Where did these images come from?https://imgur.com/a/abfRyVH
Whew....
These were posted on Reddit
Post by: reidd on Tue, 08 January 2019, 08:36:28
Post by: 8six753o9 on Tue, 08 January 2019, 08:42:20
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2016/1211/products/IMG_20181116_115609_1090x@2x.jpg?v=1542391841)
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Post by: mnpq.raven on Tue, 08 January 2019, 08:56:34
Post by: cijanzen on Tue, 08 January 2019, 09:21:38
Very interested in the PC version or maybe yellow if that option is available. Would it be possible to have a hhkb plate like this?Show Image(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2016/1211/products/IMG_20181116_115609_1090x@2x.jpg?v=1542391841)
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+1 for this! That plate design would loook beautiful with PC. It might be too late but I’d throw in my vote for universal PCB even though it detracts from the aesthetic. At the same time a proprietary PCB would not stop me from entering the gb. Looking forward to seeing where this goes!
Post by: appaboy on Tue, 08 January 2019, 09:27:43
Post by: dimo on Tue, 08 January 2019, 09:56:07
Post by: Visionaire on Tue, 08 January 2019, 10:07:45
Post by: Dovan1405 on Tue, 08 January 2019, 10:17:00
Post by: FunTyme on Tue, 08 January 2019, 12:08:58
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 08 January 2019, 12:18:03
Post by: asury on Tue, 08 January 2019, 12:56:25
Very interested in the PC version or maybe yellow if that option is available. Would it be possible to have a hhkb plate like this?Show Image(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2016/1211/products/IMG_20181116_115609_1090x@2x.jpg?v=1542391841)
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Wow is that Sidewinder’s PC plate? where did you get that from?
Regarding the Leaf60 PC, I’m also looking forward to pick one up if it’s available later
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Post by: dado brat on Tue, 08 January 2019, 13:05:05
Post by: ossetepo on Tue, 08 January 2019, 13:16:45
Post by: Bubblegum on Tue, 08 January 2019, 13:44:42
Post by: Darknight00z on Tue, 08 January 2019, 14:04:13
Unless we can use the DZ60?
Post by: MxBlue on Tue, 08 January 2019, 15:33:53
Very interested in the PC version or maybe yellow if that option is available. Would it be possible to have a hhkb plate like this?
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Quote
I can provide a dedicated HHKB plate.
Has it been decided whether a universal or proprietary PCB will be used?
Underglow support for the PC please!!
Unless we can use the DZ60?
Quote
Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout.
Post by: juaninamilli on Tue, 08 January 2019, 16:12:05
Hotswap? Oh no
Post by: oh_chesteroni on Tue, 08 January 2019, 17:11:12
MX and Alps? Oh noThe fear and sadness in this post is palpable.
Hotswap? Oh no
Post by: juaninamilli on Tue, 08 January 2019, 17:12:52
Post by: eagleheardt on Tue, 08 January 2019, 17:35:47
real question: Are you also going to look into a "Leaf 24" a leaf on a 10 key, high profile, would be super hot!!
Post by: fireworm on Tue, 08 January 2019, 17:41:54
I would LOVE a leaf 60, or orange 60, or any of these REALLY awesome 60% styles!!!
real question: Are you also going to look into a "Leaf 24" a leaf on a 10 key, high profile, would be super hot!!
BTW, as some guys requested in the Leaf 80 thread, there will also be a matching numpad available
Post by: senter on Tue, 08 January 2019, 19:32:00
Yes, the PC one looks great! It just scares me to go with that option because I hear about stripped threads and loose screws. Will have to think on it.
Man, your reply scares me as well. I didn't know that happens on PC cases. Is that a common issue?
There are no stripped threads or loose screws at least on the three protos I have.
I've been using acrylic sandwich cases for many years and I never had or even heard any this kind of issues.
Polycarbonate is known to have greater strength than acrylic.
Post by: dantambok on Tue, 08 January 2019, 19:47:58
Post by: ossetepo on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:11:30
My guess is most of the stripped threads on PC cases are from cross threading with metal screws. I really wish more PC case makers would use threaded inserts instead of tapping the PC itself, but this doesn't seem to be taking off.
Softer plastic screws are always a possibility - I've got PTFE screws at work that will deform long before PC will. I've been meaning to borrow some and try them out on my PC Singa.
Post by: senter on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:27:28
PC is much tougher, PMMA is usually stronger, although their strengths are very comparable. PC is also quite a bit softer than PMMA.
My guess is most of the stripped threads on PC cases are from cross threading with metal screws. I really wish more PC case makers would use threaded inserts instead of tapping the PC itself, but this doesn't seem to be taking off.
Softer plastic screws are always a possibility - I've got PTFE screws at work that will deform long before PC will. I've been meaning to borrow some and try them out on my PC Singa.
Acrylic is more common than either PC or PMMA. Acrylic is also softer than PC. I never heard stripped thread issues even for acrylic cases. Maybe I'm ignorant but I spent a lot of time on rmk/gh/discord.
Before someone who really had the issues show up, the stripped thread issues are just suspicions. I really doubt it.
Plastic screw is a great idea, even not for solving the possible issues. I'll get some for testing later.
Post by: ArchDill on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:30:47
Yes, the PC one looks great! It just scares me to go with that option because I hear about stripped threads and loose screws. Will have to think on it.
Man, your reply scares me as well. I didn't know that happens on PC cases. Is that a common issue?
There are no stripped threads or loose screws at least on the three protos I have.
I've been using acrylic sandwich cases for many years and I never had or even heard any this kind of issues.
Polycarbonate is known to have greater strength than acrylic.
I think most PC owners would know to be careful with it. I know I would tighten slightly under hand tight.
Post by: senter on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:37:20
(https://i.imgur.com/9vdO3sY.jpg)
The right side is the E-red I was referring to.
Post by: oh_chesteroni on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:46:27
Post by: Wongstongs on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:48:11
Post by: Vigrith on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:48:38
Some more info has been posted in OP.
I think it's really cool all the experimentation you're doing with colours - especially the fact you'll be offering rose gold and silver brass as well as the standard gold, I'd be extremely curious to see what the finish on those would look like as well as the black polycarb.
Great job on the prices too, I'm sure many of us appreciate your thought to keep the boards as affordable as possible - would the kit prices mentioned in the OP edit be inclusive of brass weight/plate, or will those be purchased separately like with the Leaf 80? Either way, incredibly well priced.
Really looking forward to the GB opening up!
Shipping information?
Not Senter but I believe most of his designs are ran through ZFrontier (at least the Time TKL which I own as well as their recent Leaf 80) - I can't recall what exact method of shipping they use but the costs were actually included in the price for the Time, not sure how it was handled for the Leaf 80 but ZF's options tend to be very affordable (even internationally) when the tag is not inclusive of it.
Post by: meiosis on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:48:47
Post by: slxdegrees on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:52:12
Post by: mnpq.raven on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:52:50
Does this also apply to the brass plates in the non-brass(PC and aluminum cases) versions ? And other than brass is there any other plate material ?
- Colors of PVD brass versions: gold, silver, rose gold
Also how's the slope ?
Post by: azharkh on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:53:18
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Post by: oh_chesteroni on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:56:50
Shipping information?
Quote
Not Senter but I believe most of his designs are ran through ZFrontier (at least the Time TKL which I own as well as their recent Leaf 80) - I can't recall what exact method of shipping they use but the costs were actually included in the price for the Time, not sure how it was handled for the Leaf 80 but ZF's options tend to be very affordable (even internationally) when the tag is not inclusive of it.
Thanks for the info! I felt the need to ask because, like you, I think the aluminum and PC kit is priced very reasonably, and I'm hoping shipping doesn't tip the scales too much for me.
Post by: dondongler on Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:27:05
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Post by: bengine on Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:30:10
Any pictures of the opaque black polycarb material available?
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https://imgur.com/a/abfRyVH
Post by: oh_chesteroni on Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:31:28
That's the black pc? I thought it was black ano.Any pictures of the opaque black polycarb material available?
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https://imgur.com/a/abfRyVH
Post by: Mekuno on Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:34:38
Post by: ossetepo on Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:42:18
That's the black pc? I thought it was black ano.Any pictures of the opaque black polycarb material available?
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https://imgur.com/a/abfRyVH
You're not the only one, I assumed that was the black e-coat too. That looks super, super good.
Post by: fireworm on Tue, 08 January 2019, 22:39:21
- Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout. Both are USB C + QMK
Does this mean the pcb will have just have mx / alps solder holes for all positions (e.g. The split space bar)?
In other words, it possible for me to just order a split space alps plate and use your pcb? (I don't see you mentioning the split space alps plate)
I understand if I'm just being too much of a snow flake. :)
Post by: Unforgivable on Tue, 08 January 2019, 22:49:15
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/HANs5Ml.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/kdJYkXr.jpg)
Simply put, this is an IC for 60% version of Leaf 80 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97011.0).
This IC is not for checking interests because we will run it for sure.
The purpose of this IC is for collecting suggestions/opinions on the current design and future available options.
Some potential new features:
- New plate mounting method. We've been using top mount for quite a long time. Now we're trying to figure out how to play with gaskets. Not sure if the current design can be called gasket mount or not.
- Anodizing: new regular colors, gradient anodizing, camo ano, hard ano
- E-coating: new colors, non matte finish (the original e-white and e-black are all matte finish)
- PVD brass case: It was a pain to deal with PVD because the quality is hard to control. Exclusive found a reliable factory that can do PVD in very high quality. It might be worth trying. Really appreciate his help.
- PC case: Anyone interested in opaque PC cases? I'm not sure about the aesthetic aspect but the PC cases sound different from metal cases.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/8FNuseW.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/c8BJWeW.png)
The current design is to attach 4 long strips of self-adhesive gaskets on both the top case and the bottom case.
The gaskets have screw holes on them. They will be compressed a little bit when the screws are tightened.
The front and rear sides of the plate will be sandwich mounted in the middle.
Update on 01/08:
Some changes have been made since the IC starts. There are also some details have been confirmed.
- Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout. Both are USB C + QMK
- The USB port cutout will be in the middle
- 4 types plates will be available: MX universal, MX WKL, MX HHKB, ALPS
- Colors of aluminum parts: E-white, E-black, E-red, purple anodizing, yellow anodizing
- Colors of PC versions: Matte clear, opaque black
- Colors of PVD brass versions: gold, silver, rose gold
- Pricing for aluminum/PC kits: $275 excluding Paypal fees or $290 with PayPal fees included.
- Pricing for all brass PVD kits: $560 excluding PayPal fees.
- Limits: 10 kits for all brass kits because PVD quality is difficult to control.
Universal PCB please (Left USB port).
Skimming through the thread, it seems A LOT want this option for easy PCB replacements.
Post by: nasp on Tue, 08 January 2019, 23:29:22
What's the reason for putting it in the middle? Aesthetics?
Post by: etong415 on Tue, 08 January 2019, 23:37:41
How would you describe the differences in sound when comparing an open bottom row versus hhkb or WKL layout?Would like to see different plate versions so there are no extra holes for specific layouts. Also like has been mentioned, would prefer universal PCB option unless there is a reason not to.To throw in my opposing 2 cents. I'd rather universal than completely fixed regardless of layout unless there's sound relief cuts. Honestly I find an open bottom row and iso enter area sounds preferable than fixed, and any alignment issues are simply fixed with PCB mount switches.
I'm definitely interested in all the color/finishing options. I've been interested in PC case for a while, depends on price though.
Admittedly the sound is opinion. As always.
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Post by: ChrisSwires on Wed, 09 January 2019, 02:04:03
I can go one better:How would you describe the differences in sound when comparing an open bottom row versus hhkb or WKL layout?Would like to see different plate versions so there are no extra holes for specific layouts. Also like has been mentioned, would prefer universal PCB option unless there is a reason not to.To throw in my opposing 2 cents. I'd rather universal than completely fixed regardless of layout unless there's sound relief cuts. Honestly I find an open bottom row and iso enter area sounds preferable than fixed, and any alignment issues are simply fixed with PCB mount switches.
I'm definitely interested in all the color/finishing options. I've been interested in PC case for a while, depends on price though.
Admittedly the sound is opinion. As always.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There's caveats to that of course, the universal plate in this case has switch top opening, the fixed does not which will have an effect. The size and composition of the board will also have an effect.
It's not game changing by any means, and it's of course preference which you prefer but I'd say that fixed has a harsher higher pitched note, especially on larger keys, universal is more mellowed.
The difference can be mitigated either way by adding releif cuts under larger keys, particularly spacebar.
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Post by: dantambok on Wed, 09 January 2019, 02:11:02
Quote
I can go one better:
There's caveats to that of course, the universal plate in this case has switch top opening, the fixed does not which will have an effect. The size and composition of the board will also have an effect.
It's not game changing by any means, and it's of course preference which you prefer but I'd say that fixed has a harsher higher pitched note, especially on larger keys, universal is more mellowed.
The difference can be mitigated either way by adding releif cuts under larger keys, particularly spacebar.
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damn that's some next level **** dude :blank:
Post by: etong415 on Wed, 09 January 2019, 02:14:06
Very interesting, definitely something to note if you’re going after a specific sound profile!I can go one better:How would you describe the differences in sound when comparing an open bottom row versus hhkb or WKL layout?Would like to see different plate versions so there are no extra holes for specific layouts. Also like has been mentioned, would prefer universal PCB option unless there is a reason not to.To throw in my opposing 2 cents. I'd rather universal than completely fixed regardless of layout unless there's sound relief cuts. Honestly I find an open bottom row and iso enter area sounds preferable than fixed, and any alignment issues are simply fixed with PCB mount switches.
I'm definitely interested in all the color/finishing options. I've been interested in PC case for a while, depends on price though.
Admittedly the sound is opinion. As always.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There's caveats to that of course, the universal plate in this case has switch top opening, the fixed does not which will have an effect. The size and composition of the board will also have an effect.
It's not game changing by any means, and it's of course preference which you prefer but I'd say that fixed has a harsher higher pitched note, especially on larger keys, universal is more mellowed.
The difference can be mitigated either way by adding releif cuts under larger keys, particularly spacebar.
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Post by: ReadmeDotTxt on Wed, 09 January 2019, 04:16:30
Post by: ptiede on Wed, 09 January 2019, 07:05:03
Post by: gabetjh on Wed, 09 January 2019, 07:10:35
Is there a sample of yellow aluminum?see leaf 80 on zf
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Post by: ptiede on Wed, 09 January 2019, 08:28:00
Is there a sample of yellow aluminum?see leaf 80 on zf
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Thanks!
Post by: ejewell89 on Wed, 09 January 2019, 08:41:45
is it just the components? like plate and weight? or another type of build entirely?
Post by: trg1234 on Wed, 09 January 2019, 08:53:47
Yeah, I don't know why the USB can't be on the left. That way both proprietary and universal PCBs like the DZ60 would work.
What's the reason for putting it in the middle? Aesthetics?
I believe that people wanted either a very tight middle port with proprietary or a left side port universal with the proprietary having that extra clean look.
Post by: hansichen on Wed, 09 January 2019, 09:55:16
Post by: mnpq.raven on Wed, 09 January 2019, 09:57:12
Good to hear that it uses a custom PCB, else I would be tempted to buy one cause it's such a pretty board :))Such a helpful comment devoid of sarcasm
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Post by: Visionaire on Wed, 09 January 2019, 10:55:06
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 09 January 2019, 11:17:28
Post by: Wongstongs on Wed, 09 January 2019, 11:19:59
Post by: ArchDill on Wed, 09 January 2019, 11:27:41
Post by: dondongler on Wed, 09 January 2019, 11:28:14
Not sure if this has been asnswered/asked but ETA on the GB?Hopefully this month
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Post by: dubious on Wed, 09 January 2019, 12:44:14
Will the final HHKB version have the cutouts on the side, or will they be visible through the polycarb like in the prototype? What color will the PCB be?
Post by: juaninamilli on Wed, 09 January 2019, 13:53:48
i'm trying to understand the pvd brass stuff but can't wrap my head around it. can someone help explain?
is it just the components? like plate and weight? or another type of build entirely?
Post by: senter on Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:11:53
I can go one better:
There's caveats to that of course, the universal plate in this case has switch top opening, the fixed does not which will have an effect. The size and composition of the board will also have an effect.
It's not game changing by any means, and it's of course preference which you prefer but I'd say that fixed has a harsher higher pitched note, especially on larger keys, universal is more mellowed.
The difference can be mitigated either way by adding releif cuts under larger keys, particularly spacebar.
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Thanks for the video. It's very informative. The spacebars on two plates do sounds significantly different. I prefer the sound of the universal one.
Post by: senter on Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:14:47
i'm trying to understand the pvd brass stuff but can't wrap my head around it. can someone help explain?
is it just the components? like plate and weight? or another type of build entirely?
Given how limited it is, I would say the whole board will be PVD. Look up the E6 to get an idea of a ful brass board.
Yes, whole board.
Post by: senter on Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:16:42
This looks dope, I would buy an additional PCB + Polycarb plate if they are offered.
Will the final HHKB version have the cutouts on the side, or will they be visible through the polycarb like in the prototype? What color will the PCB be?
There will be a dedicated HHKB layout plate for the clear PC case so you won't see the additional switch cutouts on two corners.
The color of the PCB will be black if no one has better suggestions.
Post by: trg1234 on Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:20:06
Post by: yicaoyimu on Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:24:25
This looks dope, I would buy an additional PCB + Polycarb plate if they are offered.
Will the final HHKB version have the cutouts on the side, or will they be visible through the polycarb like in the prototype? What color will the PCB be?
There will be a dedicated HHKB layout plate for the clear PC case so you won't see the additional switch cutouts on two corners.
The color of the PCB will be black if no one has better suggestions.
Does the non-hhkb plate work with hhkb case though? I actually really like the idea of having subtle colored plate see through with clear PC case on the corners.
Post by: juaninamilli on Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:34:28
This looks dope, I would buy an additional PCB + Polycarb plate if they are offered.
Will the final HHKB version have the cutouts on the side, or will they be visible through the polycarb like in the prototype? What color will the PCB be?
There will be a dedicated HHKB layout plate for the clear PC case so you won't see the additional switch cutouts on two corners.
The color of the PCB will be black if no one has better suggestions.
Post by: mog_genius88 on Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:48:36
Post by: yuppie on Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:59:54
Post by: Vigrith on Wed, 09 January 2019, 15:04:26
Will PC cases be the same price as alu?
As per the edit to the OP, yea.
Post by: dubious on Wed, 09 January 2019, 16:22:33
This looks dope, I would buy an additional PCB + Polycarb plate if they are offered.
Will the final HHKB version have the cutouts on the side, or will they be visible through the polycarb like in the prototype? What color will the PCB be?
There will be a dedicated HHKB layout plate for the clear PC case so you won't see the additional switch cutouts on two corners.
The color of the PCB will be black if no one has better suggestions.
nice, I think black is the best choice
Post by: yicaoyimu on Wed, 09 January 2019, 16:24:17
I'd like to see a 65% with the Canoe-style blocker.
+1 to this. I'm in for leaf 60 regardless but 65 will be perfect for me.
Post by: ian13 on Wed, 09 January 2019, 20:39:50
When will the gb start?
Post by: Coolbeanz on Wed, 09 January 2019, 21:55:45
I'd like to see a 65% with the Canoe-style blocker.
PC leaf60 and PC leaf65! Let's go! :)
When will the gb start?
Would love a 65% version of this too!
Post by: juaninamilli on Wed, 09 January 2019, 23:29:46
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 10 January 2019, 00:20:19
No silver? If not, is the E white on the warmer or cooler side?
i believe it's a cool white
Post by: stolenweapon on Thu, 10 January 2019, 05:39:41
Post by: blizzara01 on Thu, 10 January 2019, 07:51:08
For the hot swappable option is only wkl and hkkb layout supported or is a full version also included.Also asking this
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 10 January 2019, 08:05:04
For the hot swappable option is only wkl and hkkb layout supported or is a full version also included.Also asking this
Post by: zap2oz on Thu, 10 January 2019, 21:34:24
Post by: slxdegrees on Thu, 10 January 2019, 21:34:41
Post by: senter on Thu, 10 January 2019, 22:08:56
Does the non-hhkb plate work with hhkb case though? I actually really like the idea of having subtle colored plate see through with clear PC case on the corners.
Yes.
Are you 亦草亦木 on Zhihu? I believe I saw this name many times before. Just curious.
Post by: senter on Thu, 10 January 2019, 22:22:16
What about a WKL plate? Or maybe just plate blockers so you don't need a different plate.
There won't be a dedicated WKL plate if that's what you asked. 4 versions of plates in total is already a huge burden for sorting.
Post by: senter on Thu, 10 January 2019, 22:33:50
No silver? If not, is the E white on the warmer or cooler side?
It's pure white.
Post by: senter on Thu, 10 January 2019, 22:35:13
Will most likely have a 1.5-1-1.5-7-1.5-1-1.5 bottom row. This will allow the PCB to work with HHKB, WKL, and Tsangan.For the hot swappable option is only wkl and hkkb layout supported or is a full version also included.Also asking this
This
Post by: senter on Thu, 10 January 2019, 22:36:46
Will there be an option to upgrade the brass weight or plate to a sandblasted finish?
The default finish for the brass parts is sandblasted, except for full brass PVD kits.
They can be upgraded to gold PVD.
Post by: yicaoyimu on Thu, 10 January 2019, 22:50:14
Does the non-hhkb plate work with hhkb case though? I actually really like the idea of having subtle colored plate see through with clear PC case on the corners.
Yes.
Are you 亦草亦木 on Zhihu? I believe I saw this name many times before. Just curious.
Yes that’s me :)
I’m actually done with this hobby for quite a while but I’ve heard so many good things about Leaf 80 I just have to join this :thumb:
Post by: mog_genius88 on Fri, 11 January 2019, 00:36:31
Post by: dantambok on Fri, 11 January 2019, 03:43:15
ok so i'm in for three... do you have an estimated start date for gb?
woah 3
Post by: eagleheardt on Fri, 11 January 2019, 08:37:02
Post by: Mekuno on Fri, 11 January 2019, 09:26:58
Post by: Prebeta on Fri, 11 January 2019, 11:31:21
Post by: OmegaZero55 on Fri, 11 January 2019, 11:54:58
Post by: MoarCoffeePlzzz on Fri, 11 January 2019, 16:28:41
Post by: juaninamilli on Fri, 11 January 2019, 16:36:03
Silver only on the $560 version? :(
Post by: senter on Fri, 11 January 2019, 19:16:00
ok so i'm in for three... do you have an estimated start date for gb?
Just confirmed the last thing that concerned me. I'm preparing the pics and texts right now. GB should start early next week.
Post by: dantambok on Fri, 11 January 2019, 19:18:16
Post by: senter on Fri, 11 January 2019, 19:20:03
Maybe I didn't see it, but are there any plans for RGB underglow? That would be amazing with the PC version, and I'd have to get one for sure.
There are no built-in RGB LEDs on the PCB. The main reason is the high failure rate of the RGB LEDs. They are wired in series. One LED has a bad soldering point then all the rest won't work.
The PCB will have soldering pads for LED strips. They are flexible to attach and easy to drive with QMK.
Post by: senter on Fri, 11 January 2019, 19:20:53
Woot! How long will the GB run?
One week
Post by: mnpq.raven on Fri, 11 January 2019, 19:24:29
Post by: dantambok on Fri, 11 January 2019, 19:50:28
Woot! How long will the GB run?
One week
Cool. Thanks Senter!
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Fri, 11 January 2019, 20:47:17
Post by: Coolbeanz on Sat, 12 January 2019, 05:17:32
Post by: fireworm on Sat, 12 January 2019, 11:34:34
Post by: pr0ximity on Sat, 12 January 2019, 17:50:52
I really wish more PC case makers would use threaded inserts instead of tapping the PC itself, but this doesn't seem to be taking off.
Q. F. T.
Not sure why this hasn't been done yet. For the price of this PC kit tho, you could probably try installing your own without much risk. They seem pretty easy to install, the existing tap would act as a big pilot hole.
Softer plastic screws are always a possibility - I've got PTFE screws at work that will deform long before PC will. I've been meaning to borrow some and try them out on my PC Singa.
They came with a VE.A kit I built -- I was not a fan. The heads are just ludicrously easy to strip with any driver. They also wouldn't do much to give me confidence in their ability to hold a base with a brass plate on the bottom when I pick the board up.
Post by: gnhuy91 on Sat, 12 January 2019, 18:42:17
Post by: Abec13 on Sat, 12 January 2019, 21:24:45
Is there any chance we could get more renders of this board? Just to showcase some more colors?
Post by: Viss on Sat, 12 January 2019, 22:15:15
what are available colors? i hope there would be a dark blue similar to rama m60
Literally in the OP. Please be less lazy
Colors of aluminum parts: E-white, E-black, E-red, purple anodizing, yellow anodizing
Colors of PC versions: Matte clear, opaque black
Colors of PVD brass versions: gold, silver, rose gold
Post by: azharkh on Sat, 12 January 2019, 23:50:05
Post by: spyruf on Sun, 13 January 2019, 00:38:52
please please please can we have VIA support or AT LEAST BMC support
second this, BMC is very nice and I've only hear good things about VIA as well.
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 13 January 2019, 02:55:31
what are available colors? i hope there would be a dark blue similar to rama m60
Literally in the OP. Please be less lazy
Colors of aluminum parts: E-white, E-black, E-red, purple anodizing, yellow anodizing
Colors of PC versions: Matte clear, opaque black
Colors of PVD brass versions: gold, silver, rose gold
I like your style
Post by: kakan on Sun, 13 January 2019, 06:39:45
Post by: NRbigfoot on Sun, 13 January 2019, 06:43:13
Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 13 January 2019, 11:18:29
I'm afraid with so many options the base price will be higher or packaging/shipping will be a nightmare.
Leaf 80 also had a ton of options and was very reasonably priced
Post by: mog_genius88 on Sun, 13 January 2019, 11:21:06
I'm afraid with so many options the base price will be higher or packaging/shipping will be a nightmare.
I may be wrong, but I think the OP only indicates 7 colors and 4 layouts. I'm choosing to believe that Fox Labs has enough experience and cred to make this awesome. I don't think that's too many options for an experienced runner.
Post by: ejewell89 on Sun, 13 January 2019, 16:55:53
are you still doing one?
Post by: spyruf on Sun, 13 January 2019, 19:01:12
Update on 01/08:
Some changes have been made since the IC starts. There are also some details have been confirmed.
- Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout. Both are USB C + QMK
- The USB port cutout will be in the middle
- 4 types plates will be available: MX universal, MX WKL, MX HHKB, ALPS
- Colors of aluminum parts: E-white, E-black, E-red, purple anodizing, yellow anodizing
- Colors of PC versions: Matte clear, opaque black
- Colors of PVD brass versions: gold, silver, rose gold
- Pricing for aluminum/PC kits: $275 excluding Paypal fees or $290 with PayPal fees included.
- Pricing for all brass PVD kits: $560 excluding PayPal fees.
- Limits: 10 kits for all brass kits because PVD quality is difficult to control.
Post by: senter on Sun, 13 January 2019, 19:45:08
I really wish more PC case makers would use threaded inserts instead of tapping the PC itself, but this doesn't seem to be taking off.
Q. F. T.
Not sure why this hasn't been done yet. For the price of this PC kit tho, you could probably try installing your own without much risk. They seem pretty easy to install, the existing tap would act as a big pilot hole.
I was asking about this but haven't got an answer yet. Are there solid reasons why one should use threaded inserts? Is there a known problem with PC screw holes?
Actually, I tried installing heat-set inserts on a prototype. It requires a soldering iron to install. There's a little risk but I think it's doable. The current design needs to be revised a lot and the border needs to be widened.
Again, I doubt the necessity of the inserts. The current design has already been revised for many times. The current prototypes works. I can't make huge changes for just suspicions.
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 13 January 2019, 19:48:40
My current thinking is you can over-tighten screws and crack the poly. Easy-ish to avoid that, but who knows. My thinking is also that poly is easier to cross-thread accidentally -- might just feel like a tight thread. If you force it, bad news.I really wish more PC case makers would use threaded inserts instead of tapping the PC itself, but this doesn't seem to be taking off.
Q. F. T.
Not sure why this hasn't been done yet. For the price of this PC kit tho, you could probably try installing your own without much risk. They seem pretty easy to install, the existing tap would act as a big pilot hole.
I was asking about this but haven't got an answer yet. Are there solid reasons why one should use threaded inserts? Is there a known problem with PC screw holes?
Actually, I tried installing heat-set inserts on a prototype. It requires a soldering iron to install. There's a little risk but I think it's doable. The current design needs to be revised a lot and the border needs to be widened.
Again, I doubt the necessity of the inserts. The current design has already been revised for many times. The current prototypes works. I can't make huge changes for just suspicions.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
Post by: senter on Sun, 13 January 2019, 20:02:35
My current thinking is you can over-tighten screws and crack the poly. Easy-ish to avoid that, but who knows. My thinking is also that poly is easier to cross-thread accidentally -- might just feel like a tight thread. If you force it, bad news.I really wish more PC case makers would use threaded inserts instead of tapping the PC itself, but this doesn't seem to be taking off.
Q. F. T.
Not sure why this hasn't been done yet. For the price of this PC kit tho, you could probably try installing your own without much risk. They seem pretty easy to install, the existing tap would act as a big pilot hole.
I was asking about this but haven't got an answer yet. Are there solid reasons why one should use threaded inserts? Is there a known problem with PC screw holes?
Actually, I tried installing heat-set inserts on a prototype. It requires a soldering iron to install. There's a little risk but I think it's doable. The current design needs to be revised a lot and the border needs to be widened.
Again, I doubt the necessity of the inserts. The current design has already been revised for many times. The current prototypes works. I can't make huge changes for just suspicions.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
Yes, you always can break a screw/screw hole, even for titanium cases, if you force it. There's a difference between imagination and reality tho.
There have been more than two runners tried PC cases and there are no such cases from what I've been heard.
No SOLID reasons but imagination I've heard until now about the screw holes on PC cases.
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 13 January 2019, 20:21:32
Yes, you always can break a screw/screw hole, even for titanium cases, if you force it. There's a difference between imagination and reality tho.
There have been more than two runners tried PC cases and there are no such cases from what I've been heard.
No SOLID reasons but imagination I've heard until now about the screw holes on PC cases.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
I'm not trying to say I know more than anyone else on this -- I'm not very knowledgeable on materials. I can also appreciate that it's not a trivial change to make. But I think the long-term durability of metal screws in polycarbonate is still an open question, and one that I hope is explored more in the future because I love the sound and feel of polycarbonate boards like this.
Post by: azharkh on Sun, 13 January 2019, 20:26:54
Post by: blizzara01 on Sun, 13 January 2019, 20:28:09
Post by: ian13 on Sun, 13 January 2019, 21:17:53
Post by: Starston3 on Sun, 13 January 2019, 23:12:07
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 13 January 2019, 23:18:41
Not sure if this has been addressed, but would it be possible for the black pc version be more translucent that opaque?
i belive thats just the nature of the material but not 100% sure
Post by: tiydal on Mon, 14 January 2019, 06:26:43
I think ill get a WKL black with 1 hotswap and 1 normal pcb. Silver PVD brass.
Post by: b3nkei on Mon, 14 January 2019, 07:00:23
Post by: clasicks on Mon, 14 January 2019, 09:04:51
Post by: slxdegrees on Mon, 14 January 2019, 09:50:34
Post by: laserbeamspewpew on Mon, 14 January 2019, 10:37:40
Post by: juaninamilli on Mon, 14 January 2019, 11:08:48
Have the plate materials been determined?
Post by: laserbeamspewpew on Mon, 14 January 2019, 11:14:30
YesHave the plate materials been determined?
And they are?
Post by: juaninamilli on Mon, 14 January 2019, 11:16:38
It's literally where you should look if you're wondering those sorts of things.YesHave the plate materials been determined?
And they are?
Post by: laserbeamspewpew on Mon, 14 January 2019, 11:21:15
It's literally where you should look if you're wondering those sorts of things.YesHave the plate materials been determined?
And they are?
If you're referring to the original post, there is no mention of plate materials, only layouts. I've seen brass, PC, and aluminum mentioned in throughout the course of the thread, but no confirmation.
Post by: juaninamilli on Mon, 14 January 2019, 11:22:17
It's literally where you should look if you're wondering those sorts of things.YesHave the plate materials been determined?
And they are?
If you're referring to the original post, there is no mention of plate materials, only layouts. I've seen brass, PC, and aluminum mentioned in throughout the course of the thread, but no confirmation.
Post by: reidd on Mon, 14 January 2019, 11:25:12
Post by: laserbeamspewpew on Mon, 14 January 2019, 11:26:55
There's an update on the OP from 1/8It's literally where you should look if you're wondering those sorts of things.YesHave the plate materials been determined?
And they are?
If you're referring to the original post, there is no mention of plate materials, only layouts. I've seen brass, PC, and aluminum mentioned in throughout the course of the thread, but no confirmation.
Again, no specific mention of plate materials, only layouts.
Post by: juaninamilli on Mon, 14 January 2019, 11:38:10
There's an update on the OP from 1/8It's literally where you should look if you're wondering those sorts of things.YesHave the plate materials been determined?
And they are?
If you're referring to the original post, there is no mention of plate materials, only layouts. I've seen brass, PC, and aluminum mentioned in throughout the course of the thread, but no confirmation.
Again, no specific mention of plate materials, only layouts.
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 14 January 2019, 12:46:59
Not sure if this has been addressed, but would it be possible for the black pc version be more translucent that opaque?
i belive thats just the nature of the material but not 100% sure
It would be really cool to have colored frosted polycarbonate. Not necessarily in this keyboard, just in general.
Post by: FunTyme on Mon, 14 January 2019, 12:53:25
Post by: LuiKang on Mon, 14 January 2019, 15:01:50
More suggestions on other aspects (colors, finishes, angle) are much more needed next.Would love this board to have a 8 or 9 degrees angle for better typing experience (compared to lower angle).
Post by: azharkh on Mon, 14 January 2019, 19:25:04
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190115/fa6d704345d2ac35dc8e7055b2f4f9b2.jpg)
Post by: senter on Mon, 14 January 2019, 20:28:20
Any pictures of the prototype, senter?
Can anyone point to me some sample photos of E-Red?
(https://i.imgur.com/Xzngt8k.jpg)
Clear PC, black PC, purple, and E-white.
I made an opaque white one but it was warped. It won't be available in this GB.
For e-black and yellow anodizing, you can check pics of Leaf 80.
I didn't make a prototype for e-red. It's a new color. The finish is the same with e-white, which is matte.
Here's a photo of the color:
(https://i.imgur.com/hQzMAxz.jpg)
Post by: senter on Mon, 14 January 2019, 20:29:56
Have the plate materials been determined?
Sure.
Basically, all the case materials are available including brass, aluminum, and PC.
Post by: bengine on Mon, 14 January 2019, 20:40:37
For e-black and yellow anodizing, you can check pics of Leaf 80.
...
I didn't make a prototype for e-red. It's a new color. The finish is the same with e-white, which is matte.
Here's a photo of the color:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hQzMAxz.jpg)
Hi Senter, are all the e-coating in a matte finish or non-matte finish?
Post by: mnpq.raven on Mon, 14 January 2019, 20:47:17
From the look of the prototypes, is it safe to assume that when we get aluminum plates it will also be anodized with the same finish as the case ?Any pictures of the prototype, senter?Can anyone point to me some sample photos of E-Red?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Xzngt8k.jpg)
Clear PC, black PC, purple, and E-white.
I made an opaque white one but it was warped. It won't be available in this GB.
For e-black and yellow anodizing, you can check pics of Leaf 80.
I didn't make a prototype for e-red. It's a new color. The finish is the same with e-white, which is matte.
Here's a photo of the color:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hQzMAxz.jpg)
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Post by: bthezebra on Mon, 14 January 2019, 21:14:37
Post by: Albatross on Mon, 14 January 2019, 22:08:18
Post by: blizzara01 on Tue, 15 January 2019, 03:40:17
Post by: dantambok on Tue, 15 January 2019, 05:25:16
Post by: TheArcticFox_27 on Tue, 15 January 2019, 16:08:31
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 15 January 2019, 16:32:13
Post by: fireworm on Tue, 15 January 2019, 17:22:14
Has anyone seen the Alps plate? Is it straight up Alps stabilizers, Alps stabs + Cherry PCB on space bar (tai hao style), or perhaps SP style (All cherry stabs)? An alps polycarb build would probably be the best feeling custom alps board you could make. I find Alps to suffer from dampening and rigidity of stiff plates or tray mounted cases. This is a really cool board.
I wish I did; been pestering him a lot about the Alps stuff. I think it's all Alps stabilizers. I saw a post on r/mm with an Alps Leaf 80.
I specifically asked if he could post real images of the plates, since I wanted an Alps Split Space plate... (I'm such a snowflake, :p )
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 10:37:16
Hi Senter, are all the e-coating in a matte finish or non-matte finish?
All e-coating colors are the matte finish.
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 10:38:01
From the look of the prototypes, is it safe to assume that when we get aluminum plates it will also be anodized with the same finish as the case ?
Yes.
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 10:38:38
it might have been finished in PVD
Not sure but why it is the weight in the PC clear is more like shiny than others?
This
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 10:42:27
Has anyone seen the Alps plate? Is it straight up Alps stabilizers, Alps stabs + Cherry PCB on space bar (tai hao style), or perhaps SP style (All cherry stabs)? An alps polycarb build would probably be the best feeling custom alps board you could make. I find Alps to suffer from dampening and rigidity of stiff plates or tray mounted cases. This is a really cool board.
ALPS stabs only.
(https://i.imgur.com/XqPIyKT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vas2Vrz.png)
Here are the ALPS plate layout and the capslock support.
Post by: eagleheardt on Wed, 16 January 2019, 11:17:16
BTW, as some guys requested in the Leaf 80 thread, there will also be a matching numpad available
how many keys? 24 please!!
Post by: ggZyg on Wed, 16 January 2019, 13:28:25
Post by: jackedhardwarejunkie on Wed, 16 January 2019, 14:01:25
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 14:23:47
BTW, as some guys requested in the Leaf 80 thread, there will also be a matching numpad available
how many keys? 24 please!!
The design of the numpad is finished but we decide not to run it with Leaf 60.
Too many options have been added to Leaf 60. It's safer to run Leaf 60 only this time.
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 14:26:13
Is there such thing as E-purple?
Yes, e-coating have purple color but not with matte finish.
The color options for Leaf 60 have been decided and they are final.
Post by: jackedhardwarejunkie on Wed, 16 January 2019, 14:28:37
Ahhh I was hoping E-Purple would have matte finish, just curious if it existed, thanks for the responseIs there such thing as E-purple?
Yes, e-coating have purple color but not with matte finish.
The color options for Leaf 60 have been decided and they are final.
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 14:38:30
Ahhh I was hoping E-Purple would have matte finish, just curious if it existed, thanks for the response
E-purple can have matte finish. It's not readily available in the factory tho. It's very expensive to make it available.
Normally we cooperate with the factory and use the available colors.
Post by: fireworm on Wed, 16 January 2019, 15:51:48
ALPS stabs only.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/XqPIyKT.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vas2Vrz.png)
Here are the ALPS plate layout and the capslock support.
Will the entire PCB have MX/Alps solder points for all switches, even though the plate will be ANSI WKL?
Post by: eagleheardt on Wed, 16 January 2019, 18:08:21
BTW, as some guys requested in the Leaf 80 thread, there will also be a matching numpad available
how many keys? 24 please!!
The design of the numpad is finished but we decide not to run it with Leaf 60.
Too many options have been added to Leaf 60. It's safer to run Leaf 60 only this time.
If it doesn't run together, that's fine! But if it's been finalized, what's it like? Amount of keys? I'll still buy the 60, but I also really want the numpad friend!!!
Post by: -musubi on Wed, 16 January 2019, 19:28:51
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 19:42:19
Will the entire PCB have MX/Alps solder points for all switches, even though the plate will be ANSI WKL?
Not all the switches. Only this layout is supported for ALPS:
https://i.imgur.com/XqPIyKT.jpg
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 19:44:52
If it doesn't run together, that's fine! But if it's been finalized, what's it like? Amount of keys? I'll still buy the 60, but I also really want the numpad friend!!!
It has 6 rows but only one key on the top row. I may make some changes as there's plenty of time
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 19:46:39
Any estimated timeline on when orders will start? I'm definitely interested in a polycarbonate one and don't want to miss out :)
I've submitted the GB post.
will lock this post once GB post gets approved.
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Wed, 16 January 2019, 19:52:38
Post by: NRbigfoot on Wed, 16 January 2019, 19:57:40
If it doesn't run together, that's fine! But if it's been finalized, what's it like? Amount of keys? I'll still buy the 60, but I also really want the numpad friend!!!
It has 6 rows but only one key on the top row. I may make some changes as there's plenty of time
Similar layout to the orange pad then?
Post by: ptiede on Wed, 16 January 2019, 20:03:52
Any estimated timeline on when orders will start? I'm definitely interested in a polycarbonate one and don't want to miss out :)
I've submitted the GB post.
will lock this post once GB post gets approved.
YAAAAAASSSSSS
Post by: senter on Wed, 16 January 2019, 20:19:40