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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: kevinave on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:21:09

Title: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing | GB Soon!
Post by: kevinave on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:21:09

Calla


Group Buy thread live  here!

 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=120827.0)
More
(http://i.imgur.com/FJhwrfn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/puHn0zH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/F0pbCMx.jpg)


Directory:
  • [url=https://discord.gg/yNUPenF59g]Discord server[/url]
  • [url=https://forms.gle/p5hGo5z93wDsTeP98]Pre-GB Interest Check Response Form[/url]
Closed!
  • [url=https://imgur.com/a/TuLRjXE]Render album[/url] (as always, there will inevitably be differences in renders and real anodization colors)
  • [url=https://imgur.com/a/jyDtarQ]V3 Prototype album[/url]

Group buy:
  • Q3 2023 group buy date
  • Fixed WKL kits
  • Hard limit of 150 units
  • Solder kit cost: $500 >> $450
  • Solder kit cost: $455 (new)
  • Electrocapacitive kit cost: $480 (new)

Summary:
  • Seamless Side Profile F13 WKL TKL
  • Top mount or O-ring gummy ring gasket mount
  • 18.9 mm switch spacing
  • 5.5 typing angle
  • 21.9 mm effective keyboard height / 17.9 mm front face height (w/o bumpers)
  • QMK w/VIAL enabled PCB
  • Top engraving featuring a Calla lily
  • Stainless steel internal and external weights centered around the alphas
  • Flush M3 case hex screws for easy assembly and disassembly
  • Universal daughterboard situated parallel to the surface of the table and aligned between the nav cluster and alphas.

Roadmap:
  • Order first prototype: completed
  • Evaluate first prototype: completed
  • Post IC: completed
  • IC feedback stage: completed
  • Order second prototype: completed
  • Evaluate second prototype: completed
  • Order third prototype: completed
  • Evaluate third prototype: completed
  • Group Buy:here


Background Info:
Yes, it is another F13 TKL; however, rather than the standard cherry specification of 19.05 mm used in most keyboards, Calla features a reduced switch spacing of 18.9 mm.

I was inspired by the coveted OTD mini, one of the first boards to feature a switch spacing that deviated from the standard 19.05 mm. Researching more about the OTD mini led to me designing my own board that not only modifies the switch spacing but also negates the inconsistencies that occur with lower switch spacings. With this, Calla is around 2.7 mm shorter than the standard TKL using stock cherry spacing [18u(19.05 mm - 18.9 mm)/1u = ~2.7 mm] when comparing keycaps.

(http://i.imgur.com/IodmoLT.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Gaz02vs.jpg)


Color Options

Please vote for your favorite colors in the [url=https://forms.gle/f4xJijkZSnkqedQ38]IC form[/url] as I will be reducing the number of colors available based on popularity.
The final colors are red, silver, black, and navy, see this [url=https://imgur.com/a/jyDtarQ]album[/url] for real life pictures.

Old renders below:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/yE64KkH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QzGgLJW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NalF4qq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LySLaOX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/jZ3BBDl.jpg)


Kitting Information (Solder and Hotswap):
  • 1 x Top Case (6063 aluminum)
  • 1 x Bottom Case (6063 aluminum)
  • 1 x Interior Weight (Brass])
  • 1 x Exterior Weight (304 stainless steel)
  • 1 x Aluminum Plate (5052 aluminum: anodized red [silver for red units]) or Polypropylene Plate
  • 1 x Divinikey Carrying Case
  • Hardware Kit:
    • 8x M3 6mm 18-8 SS Steel Socket Head Case screws (91292A111)
    • 4x M3 4mm 18-8 SS Hex Drive Flat Head Weight Screws (92125A127)
    • 7x M2.5 5mm 18-8 SS Steel Socket Head Plate Screws (91292A009)
    • 4x M2 3mm Zinc-plated Socket Head Daughterboard Screws (91460A021)
    • 1 x Gummy O-ring (50A)
    • 1 x 100 mm JST connector
    • 1 x Universal Daughterboard
    • 4 x Keyboard bumpons
  • 1 x Calla Solder/Hotswap PCB (depending on kit selection)

Kitting Information (Electrocapacitive):
  • 1 x Top Case (6063 aluminum)
  • 1 x Bottom Case (6063 aluminum)
  • 1 x Interior Weight (Brass])
  • 1 x Exterior Weight (304 stainless steel)
  • 1 x STS Topre Plate (tapped)
  • 1 x Divinikey Carrying Case
  • Hardware Kit:
    • 8x M3 6mm 18-8 SS Steel Socket Head Case screws (91292A111)
    • 4x M3 4mm 18-8 SS Hex Drive Flat Head Weight Screws (92125A127)
    • 7x M2.5 5mm 18-8 SS Steel Socket Head Plate Screws (91292A009)
    • 4x M2 3mm Zinc-plated Socket Head Daughterboard Screws (91460A021)
    • 1 x Gummy O-ring (50A)
    • 1 x 100 mm JST connector
    • 1 x Universal Daughterboard
    • 4 x Keyboard bumpons
  • 1 x Calla Electrocapacitive PCB
  • 34 x M2 8mm 18-8 StS Socket Head PCB Screws

(http://i.imgur.com/fjl8axi.jpg)

(https://imgur.com/WSodYjY.png)

(https://imgur.com/p42uhXx.png)

(https://imgur.com/YZoVXMD.png)


Planned Extras:
  • Solder MX/Alp Hybrid PCB (+$35)
  • Hotswap MX PCB (+$40)
  • Electrocapacitive PCB (+$50)
  • ALU MX Full Plate (+$40)
  • PP MX Full Plate (+$40)
  • STS Topre Full Plate (+$55)
  • Hardware Kit + PE PCB Foam (+$20)

(http://i.imgur.com/Qc2CnMj.jpg)


A little about the planned group buy experience:

It is important to note (if you haven’t already) that this will be the first group buy I will have run; however, I will say that I am no stranger to the group buy process and that I am fully committed to providing a stress-free and easy group buy experience through frequent updates once the group buy has begun.

The group buy is being ran from July 17th to July 31st through Divinikey's storefront with a FCFS format.

After the purchasing window of the group buy, I intend to at least provide updates every other week if my health allows it. I plan on providing the same updates on both the GeekHack GB page and my discord server to make updates as accessible as possible.

Lastly, for the group buy participants, all files except for the case files themselves are being open-sourced after group buy completion.


Q&A:

How is the bottom row keycap spacing retained while using the lower switch spacing?
I adjusted the bottom row to negate the extra length of a standard 7u spacebar when compared to the nominal length of a 7u spacebar with 18.9 mm as the switch spacing (only possible with a fixed WKL layout). The left and right alt keys are ever so slightly offset away from the spacebar to account for the lower switch spacing.

Sadly, I can only offer WKL kits as it is not physically possible to implement WK with this design decision.

Why Calla?
Calla lilies have always been my favorite flower and they encapsulate the subtle curves of the board.

What is engraved on the interior weight?
The engraving on the interior weight reads "in bloom again," and was taken from the quote "The calla lilies are in bloom again."

Alps compatible PCB but no Alps compatible plate?
I do not plan on offering Alps compatible plates during the GB but I will release Alps plate files for whoever wants them.

NE iso support avail?
Currently, I do not plan on supporting ISO layouts. The lower switch spacing leads to awkward ISO compatibility.

NE plate foam avail?
I had designed the board without foam in mind; however, I do understand that people appreciate the adjustability and sound that foam provides. Thus, PE plate foam is avail as extra. (just for you aka)


Afterword:

If you’ve read it this far into my IC or had just instantly skipped to the end, I want to sincerely thank you. Just being able to share my project with you has been a rewarding experience and I have been able to meet so many wonderful people throughout the process to get here. Thus, I want to thank you for your interest and I hope that I was able to convince you to stay around a bit (even if it was to spam emotes). [/list]
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:21:39
Prototype V1:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/nCiUIT6.jpg) (https://imgur.com/nCiUIT6)
  • Prototype V1 album (https://imgur.com/a/xbglcaR)
  • Prototype V1 Soundtest (youtube) (https://youtu.be/VnOIbJmiz0A) (Alu full plate with L+F HG blacks top mounted)

My thoughts on this prototype:
  • Mounting points are rather stiff as the norm with top-mounted boards, I'm implementing a slight relief cut near the mounting points to alleviate this in future boards as well as moving the mounting points slightly for a more consistent alpha typing feel.
  • Keycap to keycap spacing and keycap to wall spacing is near perfect and looks amazing.
  • Manu quality is... not ideal. My worst fears were realized and I am not satisfied with how my order was handled and the overall quality of the anodization. There are some visible streaks on the bottom piece of the prototype and visible machining marks both inside and outside of the case. I am currently looking for a new manufacturer and have narrowed it down to two potential manufacturers for the second round of prototypes.
  • Overall, I am happy that everything works, the board sounds good, doesn't need foam, and both top mount/o-ring configurations work (albeit I ordered the wrong sizes of o-rings).

Running list of things changing in the second prototype:
  • This section is dedicated to changes occurring during the second prototype phase. A change made here may or may not make it to the group buy version of the board.
More
  • New case manufacturer.
  • Brass interior weight instead of stainless steel interior weight (to test the claim that brass interior weights produce a more ‘full’ sound compared to steel interior weights). This does not necessarily mean I will be changing the interior weight from steel to brass during the group buy.
  • Redesigned mounting points to reduce stiffness near said points.
  • Slightly reduced interior space.
  • Changed M2 to M3 screws (why I used M2 for the first prototype I do not know).
  • Adjusted bottom top-mounted screw locations for a more consistent R1-R2 typing experience.
  • Distributed weight screws more evenly as well as expanded interior weight.
  • misc. PCB improvements
  • Enlarged USB port to better accommodate different cables (01/09/2022)
  • Enlarged back "Calla" engraving slightly (01/09/2022)
  • Redistributed case screws. A side affect of changing M2 to M3 Screws that flew under my radar (01/10/2022)
  • Changed plate screws to M2.5, just to add a bit of vitality to the screws and threads (01/10/2022)
  • Added clearance underneath the plate screws so those that wish burger mount may do so (01/10/2022)

With enough luck, I should be able to order a second prototype shortly after receiving feedback from this IC.


Keycap Compatibility:
More
EPBT Cherry profile:
(https://i.imgur.com/n8rG6kT.jpg?1)
  • Soundtest (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TQqa4spwaIwO_jpKwCdVs1orO0KlGrc2/view?usp=sharing)

These are EPBT Black Japanese used in the prototype album. Standard keycap puller fits between the keycap-keycap and keycap-wall gaps. For keys like F13 and ESC, there was some difficulty fitting the puller but I was able to remove the keycaps without having to disassemble the case.

KAT profile:
(https://i.imgur.com/C2THde3.jpg?1)
  • Soundtest (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Shgv80mwvltkGalFUdRXE95VR6_6-5If/view?usp=sharing)

These are Kitty KAT keycaps designed by Minterly Studios. I had to use an EPBT spacebar due to a common issue with 7u KAT spacebars at the time that causes it to not return. Standard keycap puller fits between the keycap-keycap and keycap-wall gaps. For keys like F13 and ESC, there was some difficulty fitting the puller but I was able to remove the keycaps without having to disassemble the case. On HG Cherry blacks, if I intentionally squeeze two adjacent keycaps together, they will make light contact. However, this is a fringe case and would never happen during normal use.

MT3 profile:
(https://i.imgur.com/1geVOA3.jpg)
  • Soundtest (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uutrv3YKpnt2PVFgTW9SKdlmbJTl7C5q/view?usp=sharing)

These are DROP + Mito MT3 Cyber keycaps. Standard keycap puller fits between the keycap-keycap and keycap-wall gaps, much tighter than the EPBT cherry. For keys like F13, ESC, control/alt, and the upper arrow key, there was some difficulty fitting the puller but I was able to remove the keycaps without having to disassemble the case. On HG Cherry blacks, if I intentionally squeeze two adjacent keycaps together, they will make light contact. However, this is a fringe case and would never happen during normal use. Keys were more difficult to remove but I was again able to remove all keycaps without disassembling the case. For MT3 users though, I would recommend disassembling the case to change keycaps.

SP SA-P profile:
(https://i.imgur.com/TR2E0N5.jpg)

These are SP SA-P Snow Caps. Standard keycap puller fits between the keycap-keycap and keycap-wall gaps, slightly tighter than the EPBT cherry. For keys like F13, ESC, control/alt, and the upper arrow key, there was some difficulty fitting the puller but I was able to remove the keycaps without having to disassemble the case. On HG Cherry blacks, if I intentionally squeeze two adjacent keycaps together, they come close but do not make contact. I was again able to remove all keycaps without disassembling the case.

GMK Cherry profile:
(https://i.imgur.com/hzmgxjj.jpg)

These are GMK Modern Dolch 2 Mist. I only mounted the necessary keycaps for this section. Standard keycap puller fits between the keycap-keycap and keycap-wall gaps, very similar to EPBT cherry. For keys like F13, ESC, control/alt, and the upper arrow key, there was not too much difficulty fitting the puller and I was able to remove the keycaps without having to disassemble the case. On HG Cherry blacks, if I intentionally squeeze two adjacent keycaps together, they come close but do not make contact. I was again able to remove all keycaps without disassembling the case.


Special thanks to K105ty for letting me borrow their SA and GMK keycaps!

6/21/2022 Update: V2 Prototype, new EC PCB, and Vendor announcement
More
(https://i.imgur.com/S9fYgPr.png)

TLDR:
  • Second prototype (https://imgur.com/a/OJN0mUk) took longer than expected and there needs to be a third prototype made, meaning I’ve shot past the originally planned GB date
  • Solder, hot-swap, and electrocapacitive PCBs have been prototyped and are working as intended
  • Divinikey will be the main vendor for Calla and the unit cap is being substantially raised

Second Prototype and QC Concerns
More
While the anodization and bead blasting was satisfactory for the most part, I found major QC issues such as uneven chamfers, color mismatch, and dents on the bottom case of the prototype that would need to be addressed before I feel confident about running a group buy. I am discussing with the manufacturer on how to fix these issues, but there will be another round of prototypes before the group buy.

(https://i.imgur.com/V0EyIuw.png)

Prototype V2 Album (https://imgur.com/a/OJN0mUk)


New Electrocapacitive PCB
More
With second case prototype taking longer than I had expected, I had time to create an electrocapacitive PCB with the help of langerhans and with Cipulot’s open-source EC projects (https://github.com/Cipulot/) as a reference. Although the PCB does work as intended, it is still very experimental and there are a few points in the design that I plan on improving (lower cost, lower idle values, and faster scan rate) with the next iteration.
I am not sure if there is enough interest to include it in the GB as an option, but at the very least, this PCB will be open-sourced along with the rest of the PCBs shortly after the group buy finishes fulfillment.

With this, Calla could potentially support MX (Solder and Hotswap), Alps(Solder only), and Topre/Niz switches(EC only).

(https://i.imgur.com/ItR4a7x.jpg)


New Vendor
Divinikey is a US-based vendor that I will be working with for the group buy. I am very confident in their ability to ship and fulfill group buy units and I will be increasing the unit count accordingly to the amount of main IC responses.


What Now?
  • Calla isn't dead but there needs to be another round of prototypes to iron out the QC issues that were found, pushing back the GB date. It is not ideal but I would prefer to resolve these QC concerns before the group buy rather than have to deal with defective units during fulfillment.
  • I will not be providing a time estimate for when I expect to complete this next round of prototypes. I apologize as I know estimated dates are the norm but I do not want to provide a date only to delay it due to unforeseen circumstances, which had happened extensively between the IC post and now.
  • In the mean time I plan on building and testing the new prototypes. If I have time I do hope to send it out for a build stream eventually.
  • If you do want to follow my progress, I send updates once every two weeks on my discord server (https://discord.com/invite/yNUPenF59g) and I have a basic notion page (https://bevinkbd.notion.site/Calla-0c1fdab0d98142b2883a1ae1967bb91a) that outlines everything regarding Calla.


As always, thank you for sticking around and happy belated Father’s Day.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: shima on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:25:53
calla so lit :cool:
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: brudder on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:30:53
Can't wait for this!
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: bisoromi on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:37:02
will this work with SA
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Baka Bot on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:47:16
I am not a fan of the engraving placement. But everything looks fine
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:49:51
Quote from: bisoromi on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:37:02
will this work with SA
Assuming that a 1u SA keycap is around 18.20 mm, there should be enough room where there is no interference between the keycaps. That is a good point however and I will mount SA keycaps on the board to verify this weekend. I did not notice any interference with the KAT keycaps I had mounted previously but I will also test those again.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: ilikerustoo on Fri, 07 January 2022, 14:46:02
Cool. Well written post too
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: beyonddae on Fri, 07 January 2022, 16:24:38
hope we'll get an update on pricing soon! looking forward to this keyboard
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Nonnegaard on Fri, 07 January 2022, 21:11:06
to be honest it kinda looks like a mr suit
jk i's pretty
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Nonnegaard on Fri, 07 January 2022, 21:12:17
Quote from: Baka Bot on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:47:16
I am not a fan of the engraving placement. But everything looks fine
the tall flower is prolly the main selling point doe  :blank:
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kloster_boy on Sat, 08 January 2022, 22:43:33
awwwweeeee yea!!! calla time this is such a sick board i love the idea of less space between the caps
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: dietonto on Sun, 09 January 2022, 10:31:55
Very well written IC.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Keeblet_257 on Sun, 09 January 2022, 10:44:39
looks like a 500 units total GB
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: gotgoodiez on Sun, 09 January 2022, 12:53:34
I like this! I will keep an eye on this project.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:17:47
what advantage does the smaller spacing provide beyond making PCBs harder to replace?

some of the earlier duck boards have 19mm spacing and they were a nightmare to find replacements for until recently.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: DaaDaa on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:21:34
is there a list of "safe" keycap sets that are guaranteed to work fine with the reduced spacing? do KAT sets work? or can you say that all GMK will work?
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: beelzking on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:42:14
Quote from: Baka Bot on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:47:16
I am not a fan of the engraving placement. But everything looks fine
this one. will there be an option to opt-out of the engraving part?
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:42:45
Quote from: Puddsy on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:17:47
what advantage does the smaller spacing provide beyond making PCBs harder to replace?

some of the earlier duck boards have 19mm spacing and they were a nightmare to find replacements for until recently.

I opted for a lower switch spacing to reduce the gap between the edges of the keycaps and because I found it interesting and thought it was a neat design challenge. I realize that finding replacement PCBs will be a nightmare without any options from me, so I plan on running annual PCB group buys so no one will be left with a glorified paperweight. If I am no longer able to run these yearly groupbuys, I am not opposed to open-sourcing my PCB so people may order/modify themselves.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:45:16
Quote from: DaaDaa on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:21:34
is there a list of "safe" keycap sets that are guaranteed to work fine with the reduced spacing? do KAT sets work? or can you say that all GMK will work?

I hope to get pictures of and my thoughts on KAT, MT3, and EPBT sets up by today. Sadly I was not able to borrow a SA set this weekend but I will be looking to mount SA and GMK sets in the coming weeks to verify compatibility.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:47:37
Quote from: beelzking on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:42:14
Quote from: Baka Bot on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:47:16
I am not a fan of the engraving placement. But everything looks fine
this one. will there be an option to opt-out of the engraving part?

With the current unit count, I doubt I would be able to provide an option to opt out of the top engraving. That said, if there is enough interest that I could increase unit count, I am not opposed to adding this as an option if there are no downsides.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 09 January 2022, 16:14:30
Quote from: kevinave on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:42:45
Quote from: Puddsy on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:17:47
what advantage does the smaller spacing provide beyond making PCBs harder to replace?

some of the earlier duck boards have 19mm spacing and they were a nightmare to find replacements for until recently.

I opted for a lower switch spacing to reduce the gap between the edges of the keycaps and because I found it interesting and thought it was a neat design challenge. I realize that finding replacement PCBs will be a nightmare without any options from me, so I plan on running annual PCB group buys so no one will be left with a glorified paperweight. If I am no longer able to run these yearly groupbuys, I am not opposed to open-sourcing my PCB so people may order/modify themselves.

neat design challenge is good enough for me. it's a little unclear from the original post WHY exactly you went for it but i can accept "i thought it would be cool" over trying to make up some random unnecessary reason for it.

advising people to order an extra PCB plate is pretty wise as well, just in case. part of the reason people started offering that in the first place is because it was much harder to get extra parts after the GB until around 2018-2019.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Mecxs on Sun, 09 January 2022, 17:24:58
Quote from: Keeblet_257 on Sun, 09 January 2022, 10:44:39
looks like a 500 units total GB and if this number gets splitup and region locked it basically means that EU will only get a maximum of 50-100 untis.
So getting this board is basically impossible D:

500? This is 35 units according to OP.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: moonmaster on Sun, 09 January 2022, 17:54:26
Color me interested. Any chance of doing an open quantity GB? Or something like 500 units or 750 unit max?

Sent from my LE2125 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Nurseh on Sun, 09 January 2022, 18:25:07
Love things are are different from the norm, has there been any issues of clearance on anything that is being looked at?
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: DaaDaa on Sun, 09 January 2022, 18:52:26
Quote from: Keeblet_257 on Sun, 09 January 2022, 10:44:39
looks like a 500 units total GB and if this number gets splitup and region locked it basically means that EU will only get a maximum of 50-100 untis.
So getting this board is basically impossible D:

LOL ... what are you on?
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Sun, 09 January 2022, 18:56:42
I added a section underneath my prototype post dedicated to mounting different keycaps to verify compatibility to address concerns and will try to cover as many profiles and manufacturers as possible in order to make sure there are no issues.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Sun, 09 January 2022, 19:18:31
Quote from: Keeblet_257 on Sun, 09 January 2022, 10:44:39
looks like a 500 units total GB and if this number gets splitup and region locked it basically means that EU will only get a maximum of 50-100 untis.
So getting this board is basically impossible D:

Quote from: moonmaster on Sun, 09 January 2022, 17:54:26
Color me interested. Any chance of doing an open quantity GB? Or something like 500 units or 750 unit max?

Sent from my LE2125 using Tapatalk

I mentioned this in the IC but I chose a 35 unit count as this is the first group buy I am running and I don't want to bite off more than I can chew (I can already see 35 units being a daunting task to fulfill from a QC and shipping perspective). That said, I am closely monitoring the IC form and overall interest for the board. On the small chance that there is a need to increase unit count, albeit probably not to such high numbers like 500-750, I will reach out to vendors.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: whitewolf154 on Mon, 10 January 2022, 19:02:47
I feel like OP is very dedicated, and I really hope he can keep up the energy. Although this is his first run, I feel somewhat relieved
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: alwaysbless on Mon, 10 January 2022, 20:03:43
Bottom looks like Elite and Bias combined.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Mon, 10 January 2022, 22:54:13
Quote from: whitewolf154 on Mon, 10 January 2022, 19:02:47
I feel like OP is very dedicated, and I really hope he can keep up the energy. Although this is his first run, I feel somewhat relieved
Thank you and I am very glad that I was able to relieve a bit of the apprehension that comes from a project led by a first-time runner such as myself.


Quote from: alwaysbless on Mon, 10 January 2022, 20:03:43
Bottom looks like Elite and Bias combined.
The bottoms of both of those boards are absolutely stunning and I find the comparison flattering. 
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: shima on Mon, 10 January 2022, 23:05:01
Quote from: alwaysbless on Mon, 10 January 2022, 20:03:43
Bottom looks like Elite and Bias combined.
I mean, you can say that Bias takes inspiration from the C225 if you're going off of that. Hard to really do much imo but eh. Although ngl, don't really see the Elite similarities like at all
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: alwaysbless on Tue, 11 January 2022, 11:36:53
Quote from: shima on Mon, 10 January 2022, 23:05:01
Quote from: alwaysbless on Mon, 10 January 2022, 20:03:43
Bottom looks like Elite and Bias combined.
I mean, you can say that Bias takes inspiration from the C225 if you're going off of that. Hard to really do much imo but eh. Although ngl, don't really see the Elite similarities like at all

C225 bottom looks more like a keycult to me. But as far as the elite its the side ripple that looks similar imo. Either way nice combination of the two which is something that has not been done before.

https://i.imgur.com/2M0NgLw.jpg
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: POMChamp on Tue, 11 January 2022, 19:30:48
I'm impressed with how well-written your IC is and wish you the best with your first GB!
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: beelzking on Wed, 12 January 2022, 10:06:19
Quote from: kevinave on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:47:37
Quote from: beelzking on Sun, 09 January 2022, 15:42:14
Quote from: Baka Bot on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:47:16
I am not a fan of the engraving placement. But everything looks fine
this one. will there be an option to opt-out of the engraving part?

With the current unit count, I doubt I would be able to provide an option to opt out of the top engraving. That said, if there is enough interest that I could increase unit count, I am not opposed to adding this as an option if there are no downsides.

ic, no problem. This is a pretty good looking board and a pretty good IC for your first ever run, GLWIC.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: hussar_name on Wed, 12 January 2022, 12:03:53
 :))

What can possibly go wrong.

:))
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: atl22033 on Wed, 19 January 2022, 18:32:26
gib me calla
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Wed, 19 January 2022, 19:49:13
The second prototype should be ordered shortly after LNY. Under the main post, there is a list of the details changing between the V1 and V2 prototypes (most of which were made to improve QoL). In the meantime, I recorded a short video featuring the V1 Prototype. Thank you for your continued interest and I will try to make a more in-depth video upon receiving the second prototype.

Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: spedywin on Sat, 29 January 2022, 05:26:34
lilies r nice
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: genevatypes on Tue, 15 February 2022, 03:30:11
calla so hot
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Jewpac Shakur on Fri, 25 February 2022, 13:41:57
count me in
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Jefff on Fri, 25 February 2022, 20:16:55
I imagine keycap pullers are gonna be pretty hard to use with this board... How do you suggest we remove keycaps without exerting too much lateral force on the stems?
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Fri, 25 February 2022, 21:16:15
Quote from: Jefff on Fri, 25 February 2022, 20:16:55
I imagine keycap pullers are gonna be pretty hard to use with this board... How do you suggest we remove keycaps without exerting too much lateral force on the stems?

By lateral force on the stems, is that whether or not the keycap puller would have to displace adjacent keycaps to fit under a keycap? If so, from my testing, a basic keycap puller was still able to fit between most keycaps spaced 18.9 mm apart without having to "push" the keycaps/switch stem of adjacent keys away.

It is a valid concern though and reducing the switch spacing does mean that certain keycaps will be harder to remove, something that I have been documenting in detail directly under the IC and in a shortened table that summarizes my findings: spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dD4QSbrBYBxJfmBSrPmv0h0tP35393vytqnkWBa45fE/edit#gid=0)

Long story short, I was able to remove all keycaps I tested from the board without having to disassemble the case but for keycaps like MT3 which are vastly larger at the base, I would recommend disassembling the case for ease of mind and access.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: .jan on Sun, 27 February 2022, 00:02:26
so down for this
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Que7797 on Sun, 27 February 2022, 14:19:51
The reduced switch spacing is interesting, and what a drastic way to ensure a WKL case! :thumb:

Jokes aside, this looks great. I'm into it.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Oogtug84 on Sun, 27 February 2022, 16:11:39
I told myself not another TKL.

Yet here we are.

I need dis. Love the design. Any suggestion I'd have would be naive and pointless.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: caap on Tue, 01 March 2022, 00:12:10
what a well written and well organized IC.

glwic!

 :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: icey_keebss on Sat, 19 March 2022, 15:33:26
Damn son that board is hella nice
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: elisyan on Fri, 15 April 2022, 14:25:36
Quote from: kevinave on Fri, 07 January 2022, 11:21:39
  • Brass interior weight instead of stainless steel interior weight (to test the claim that brass interior weights produce a more ‘full’ sound compared to steel interior weights). This does not necessarily mean I will be changing the interior weight from steel to brass during the group buy.

Can’t spell brass without ass

All jokes aside, the appearance of the SS weight looks to fit the color themes better
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: granola bar enthusiast on Fri, 15 April 2022, 20:50:54
the price is a bit steep, especially for this board being (no offense) a gummy o-ring/top mount tkl with an full alu case with a weight which has been done multiple times before at cheaper pricepoints and even with no weight at as low as 220 USD. I'm not saying the board is bad it's actually quite the opposite it's just that it has been done so many times before and i don't see it being worth the price in my eyes for something that stands out purely from a engraving/weight and the fact that it has reduced switch spacing. this ended up seeming a lot like a hate comment which i am sorry for this is just my thoughts on the board but overall it's a very interesting design
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Fri, 15 April 2022, 21:24:17
Quote from: elisyan on Fri, 15 April 2022, 14:25:36
Can’t spell brass without ass

All jokes aside, the appearance of the SS weight looks to fit the color themes better

Stainless steel does work very well with the color themes but since it's an interior weight I'm more interested in its effect on the sound. If there's not a notable difference I'll probably switch back to STS for the production run as I'm partial to that cool steel look. :thumb:

Quote from: granola bar enthusiast on Fri, 15 April 2022, 20:50:54
the price is a bit steep, especially for this board being (no offense) a gummy o-ring/top mount tkl with an full alu case with a weight which has been done multiple times before at cheaper pricepoints and even with no weight at as low as 220 USD. I'm not saying the board is bad it's actually quite the opposite it's just that it has been done so many times before and i don't see it being worth the price in my eyes for something that stands out purely from a engraving/weight and the fact that it has reduced switch spacing. this ended up seeming a lot like a hate comment which i am sorry for this is just my thoughts on the board but overall it's a very interesting design

No worries, I don't take it as a hate comment whatsoever and I understand some of your sentiments. For Calla to get close to those price points you mentioned, I would have to sell 10-15 times the units I currently have planned, which as I mentioned in the IC is not feasible nor is something that I want to do. Economies of scale are not kind to low unit counts. That said, I plan on having strict QC guidelines and a few unique add-ons to take advantage of the lower unit count.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Tue, 21 June 2022, 19:59:36
6/21/2022 Update: V2 Prototype, new EC PCB, and Vendor announcement

(https://i.imgur.com/S9fYgPr.png)

TLDR:

Second Prototype and QC Concerns
More
While the anodization and bead blasting was satisfactory for the most part, I found major QC issues such as uneven chamfers, color mismatch, and dents on the bottom case of the prototype that would need to be addressed before I feel confident about running a group buy. I am discussing with the manufacturer on how to fix these issues, but there will be another round of prototypes before the group buy.

(https://i.imgur.com/V0EyIuw.png)

Prototype V2 Album (https://imgur.com/a/OJN0mUk)


New Electrocapacitive PCB
More
With second case prototype taking longer than I had expected, I had time to create an electrocapacitive PCB with the help of langerhans and with Cipulot’s open-source EC projects (https://github.com/Cipulot/) as a reference. Although the PCB does work as intended, it is still very experimental and there are a few points in the design that I plan on improving (lower cost, lower idle values, and faster scan rate) with the next iteration. I have not yet tested it in the actual case but plan on doing so once I get new plates in.
I am not sure if there is enough interest to include it in the GB as an option, but at the very least, this PCB will be open-sourced along with the rest of the PCBs shortly after the group buy finishes fulfillment.

With this, Calla could potentially support MX (Solder and Hotswap), Alps(Solder only), and Topre/Niz switches(EC only).

(https://i.imgur.com/ItR4a7x.jpg)


New Vendor
Divinikey is a US-based vendor that I will be working with for the group buy. I am very confident in their ability to ship and fulfill group buy units and I will be increasing the unit count accordingly to the amount of main IC responses.

What Now?



As always, thank you for sticking around and happy belated Father’s Day.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: shima on Tue, 21 June 2022, 20:12:58
very nice to see another calla update. sad to see that another round is needed but it's reassuring to know that you're prioritizing quality. hoping to see this soon:tm:  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Mon, 10 July 2023, 18:20:40
7/10/2023 Update: Final GB Preparations

I apologize for the lack of updates on GeekHack. I had chosen to keep the frequent updates to my discord to avoid spamming the Interest Check board, but with the group buy date coming up and the details finalized, I felt that now is an appropriate time to update my Interest Check thread. I've also updated the original post with the latest information.

(https://i.imgur.com/6bJNYpt.jpg)

Group buy information rundown:

More information regarding the kitting information, fulfillment timeline, and about the group buy itself be available on the group buy thread once it has been posted.

Third Prototype Thoughts:
The third prototypes arrived a few months ago and were done with exceptional quality. This time they were manufactured by DDS and I am confident in their ability to maintain that level of quality with the group buy units. It took 3 rounds of prototyping but I've finally found a good manufacturer to move forward with the group buy.

Prototype V3 Album (https://imgur.com/a/jyDtarQ)

Build Stream Announcement:
A silver unit is going to be built by TaehaTypes on his Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/taehatypes) at July 12th 1PM Pacific! The planned build is Cherry MX Blacks on a polypropylene plate so come through if you are interested!

Current Group Buy Environment:
With some group buys remaining unfulfilled due to unpaid orders, I only plan on moving ahead with the group buy if I am confident that the minimum order quantity can be met to prevent financial strain on Divinikey. I also am aware that the responses to the original IC post are likely outdated. To help with this, I've created a Pre-GB Interest Check as a means to guage interest since the last interest check over a year and a half ago. More information is available on the form itself linked here (https://forms.gle/p5hGo5z93wDsTeP98).

All in all, there's only 7 Days until the group buy starts! I will be submitting a Group Buy thread for approval shortly after this goes live. As always, thank you for sticking around, y'all make my day.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: Oni on Tue, 11 July 2023, 12:56:55
Glad to see this project return and ready to go into group buy! Has there been any consideration in offering a carrying case for the board, even as an extra option to purchase with the board? I don't see anything in the summary so I'm assuming it'll just come in a box instead.
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: HighonBelvita on Tue, 11 July 2023, 14:35:11
pricing a bit too high but nice design
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: phaxin on Tue, 11 July 2023, 14:47:40
Quote from: Oni on Tue, 11 July 2023, 12:56:55
Glad to see this project return and ready to go into group buy! Has there been any consideration in offering a carrying case for the board, even as an extra option to purchase with the board? I don't see anything in the summary so I'm assuming it'll just come in a box instead.

On Divinikey's site, it says that it'll come with a carrying case by default
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: yz on Tue, 11 July 2023, 20:44:34
are there any sound tests of the EC build available?
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Tue, 11 July 2023, 21:32:00
Quote from: Oni on Tue, 11 July 2023, 12:56:55
Glad to see this project return and ready to go into group buy! Has there been any consideration in offering a carrying case for the board, even as an extra option to purchase with the board? I don't see anything in the summary so I'm assuming it'll just come in a box instead.

Each kit will come with a carrying case from Divinikey. I had mistakenly left out that detail from the IC kitting information, I'll fix it right now.

Quote from: yz on Tue, 11 July 2023, 20:44:34
are there any sound tests of the EC build available?

Yup! It's the last timestamp of this video:

Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: marcin_nyga on Wed, 12 July 2023, 07:24:53
looks good
Title: Re: [IC] Calla - Seamless Side Profile F13 TKL w/ reduced switch spacing
Post by: kevinave on Fri, 14 July 2023, 15:56:38
Locking IC thread, GB thread live here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=120827.0)!