[IC] "The Matrix" GMK keycap set

[Special K]

This IC is for a GMK set with light green text (AE or N7), black keycaps (CR), and secondary Japanese katakana legends in keeping with the color scheme of the computer terminals in The Matrix.

Here's a couple of concept renders created by DannyHuynh:





UPDATE 03/14/21

I've noticed that there are now multiple sets that feature secondary Katakana sublegends.  Example (GMK Fuji): https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=111695.new#new

That said, would anyone be interested in this set given that Katakana sublegend molds already exist?  The primary critique against this set when I first proposed it was the cost of the then non-existent Katakana sublegends.

UPDATE 07/01/18

Interest in this IC has been revived based on feedback from other users and recent success of other sets that require custom molds, such as GMK Laser, GMK Burgundy, and GMK Space Cadet.  I'm currently seeking out an artist to create full 3D renders.

UPDATE 11/21/16:

Hey guys,

I just wanted to give a quick update and hopefully solicit some feedback from the GH community.  Over the past few weeks I've been doing some research into how to market this set better and one thing I thought would really help would be to pay for some 3D renders by some of the talented graphic designers we have here.

Just as I was about to pull the trigger, I noticed a new IC, GMK Terminal, that appears to be very similar to mine.  While I think the set looks great and appears to have significantly more organization behind it (i.e. an actual company) than mine,  it has left me wondering if I should continue to pursue this.  I will note that the differences between mine and theirs are as follows:

1. N7 instead of AE (or maybe a custom green color?  It would be whatever shade of green they use for the characters in the movie)
2. CR instead of N9
3. Different mod keys that are colored green
4. Matrix-themed novelty keys
5. Kanji characters (unlikely given the cost)

Are the differences above enough to distinguish this set from Terminal?  Is there anything else I could do to stand out?  I'm not trying to present this as a competition or anything, but the fact is that people's keycap budgets are limited and therefore only so many sets will reach MOQ.  That said, I only see a few possibilities:

1. Drop the idea completely
2. Wait some time after Terminal drops, then try to launch it (there are always people who miss out on drops for various reasons who might be interested later)
3. Keep pushing to market this set and see if it launches whenever

Thoughts?

[intelli78]

Sounds similar to Midnight

[Special K]

Sounds similar to Midnight

That's definitely close to what I had in mind, although that set is a paler green than what I'm thinking of.

Also how does the quality of Signature Plastics compare to GMK?  I thought GMK made the highest quality caps of anyone.

Also direct link to the set intelli78 mentioned:

http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-midnight-keycap-set-price-reduced/

[lashiel]

Sounds similar to Midnight

That's definitely close to what I had in mind, although that set is a paler green than what I'm thinking of.

Also how does the quality of Signature Plastics compare to GMK?  I thought GMK made the highest quality caps of anyone.

Also direct link to the set intelli78 mentioned:

http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-midnight-keycap-set-price-reduced/

If you're shooting for Cherry profile, then GMK is better/best in most cases. SP has other profiles and options such as novelties and more colors. SP does offer the Cherry-like DCS profile, but they're rather thin (whether or not this is a big deal will vary from person to person, but certainly it's thinner than GMK).

[Melvang]

Sounds similar to Midnight

That's definitely close to what I had in mind, although that set is a paler green than what I'm thinking of.

Also how does the quality of Signature Plastics compare to GMK?  I thought GMK made the highest quality caps of anyone.

Also direct link to the set intelli78 mentioned:

http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-midnight-keycap-set-price-reduced/

Well, GMK owns Cherry's molds.  Cherry sold off their key cap division years ago and GMK bought the tooling.  I can't speak for the quality differences between GMK and SP, as I have never owned GMK, but SP's DCS profile is rather thin.  Personally I find this doesn't dampen the bump on tactile switches as much as heavier caps, but to each their own.

[darkclone24]

So CR keys, but AE or N7 legends?

[Brammm87]

If it's "The Matrix", definitely AE for the legends.

[Special K]

Sounds similar to Midnight

That's definitely close to what I had in mind, although that set is a paler green than what I'm thinking of.

Also how does the quality of Signature Plastics compare to GMK?  I thought GMK made the highest quality caps of anyone.

Also direct link to the set intelli78 mentioned:

http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-midnight-keycap-set-price-reduced/

If you're shooting for Cherry profile, then GMK is better/best in most cases. SP has other profiles and options such as novelties and more colors. SP does offer the Cherry-like DCS profile, but they're rather thin (whether or not this is a big deal will vary from person to person, but certainly it's thinner than GMK).

My preference is for OEM profile, but GMK doesn't offer that, correct?  In that case I'd rather have thick, high quality caps over novelties and would therefore prefer GMK.

[Special K]

Show Image

So CR keys, but AE or N7 legends?

Dumb question: What exactly is this picture showing?  Fonts?  The keycaps all look the same size and shape to me.

[FLFisherman]

Show Image

So CR keys, but AE or N7 legends?

Dumb question: What exactly is this picture showing?  Fonts?  The keycaps all look the same size and shape to me.

It's showing the key color palette.

[Special K]

Show Image

So CR keys, but AE or N7 legends?

Dumb question: What exactly is this picture showing?  Fonts?  The keycaps all look the same size and shape to me.

It's showing the key color palette.

Are those the only choices?  AE would work for The Matrix, I was just wondering if those were all the choices GMK offered.

[lashiel]

Show Image

So CR keys, but AE or N7 legends?

Dumb question: What exactly is this picture showing?  Fonts?  The keycaps all look the same size and shape to me.

It's showing the key color palette.

Are those the only choices?  AE would work for The Matrix, I was just wondering if those were all the choices GMK offered.

Yes. Those are the only choices, unless you want to go into custom colors, which sharply increase the MOQ (something like 150 becomes 500). GMK has also had trouble with custom colors in the past.

That's one of the other advantages of Signature Plastics besides custom tooling.

(For the record I'd prefer GMK here like almost anyone else, I'm just trying to present an even picture when questions are asked, lol)

[Special K]

Show Image

So CR keys, but AE or N7 legends?

Dumb question: What exactly is this picture showing?  Fonts?  The keycaps all look the same size and shape to me.

It's showing the key color palette.

Are those the only choices?  AE would work for The Matrix, I was just wondering if those were all the choices GMK offered.

Yes. Those are the only choices, unless you want to go into custom colors, which sharply increase the MOQ (something like 150 becomes 500). GMK has also had trouble with custom colors in the past.

That's one of the other advantages of Signature Plastics besides custom tooling.

(For the record I'd prefer GMK here like almost anyone else, I'm just trying to present an even picture when questions are asked, lol)

Who makes the thickest/highest quality OEM profile caps?

[SpAmRaY]

You can see a sampling of green on black in this post

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70595.msg2000293#msg2000293

[MaNiFeX]

AE on CR is something I've been thinking of doing for a while through GMK, but I've never run a group buy.  Would totally be down to support something like what you're talking about.

I own a set of Midnight, and despite it being the colors I was looking for, I prefer hard green on black, like all my terminal windows / shells / SSH windows are at work.   

[Special K]

Do I need to get 150 commitments before an [IC] can become a [GB]?

Also I notice that most group buys include a number of modifier keys and add-on packs.  How do those affect the final price/MOQ?  Do you get a certain number of them for free?

[lashiel]

Do I need to get 150 commitments before an [IC] can become a [GB]?

Not necessarily. It's kinda gonna be up to you to decide when you feel a set has garnered enough interest. You will want to have finalized designs and/or renders, and to really have everything nailed down. Don't rush, basically.

Also I notice that most group buys include a number of modifier keys and add-on packs.  How do those affect the final price/MOQ?  Do you get a certain number of them for free?

GMK buys are generally run as one large set, without separate "kits" or addons. This is something you should talk with GMK about, as well as some other people who have run GBs.

In fact, I think your next big priority should be to reach out and get some advice/guidance/assistance from community members who have done this before (I sure haven't, ha). I know intelli78 has run at least one successful GMK GB, and Karura has one in progress (that was/is a very large/ambitious one). I would honestly recommend finding a more experienced member to help you run the buy--you come off as very inexperienced, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but people will sometimes be unwilling to buy in if they're unsure about the runner.

Other community members who have been around the block are:
 - livingspeedbump
 - BunnyLake (though the dude is super busy right now, I always hear about how helpful he tries to be)

Definitely a bunch of others too, but those are the names that jump to mind immediately.

Hope this helps! I definitely think you should keep pursuing this.

[Special K]

Do I need to get 150 commitments before an [IC] can become a [GB]?

Not necessarily. It's kinda gonna be up to you to decide when you feel a set has garnered enough interest. You will want to have finalized designs and/or renders, and to really have everything nailed down. Don't rush, basically.

How do I create those mock-ups/renders I see of new keycap sets?

Also I notice that most group buys include a number of modifier keys and add-on packs.  How do those affect the final price/MOQ?  Do you get a certain number of them for free?

GMK buys are generally run as one large set, without separate "kits" or addons. This is something you should talk with GMK about, as well as some other people who have run GBs.

In fact, I think your next big priority should be to reach out and get some advice/guidance/assistance from community members who have done this before (I sure haven't, ha). I know intelli78 has run at least one successful GMK GB, and Karura has one in progress (that was/is a very large/ambitious one). I would honestly recommend finding a more experienced member to help you run the buy--you come off as very inexperienced, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but people will sometimes be unwilling to buy in if they're unsure about the runner.

Other community members who have been around the block are:
 - livingspeedbump
 - BunnyLake (though the dude is super busy right now, I always hear about how helpful he tries to be)

Definitely a bunch of others too, but those are the names that jump to mind immediately.

Hope this helps! I definitely think you should keep pursuing this.

Yes, I fully admit I have never run a GB before and would need to enlist the help of more experienced members to make progress.  I just had the idea for a set that doesn't seem to been done before (at least not exactly in the way I'm imagining it) and wanted to get the ball rolling.

Also who makes the thickest/highest quality OEM profile keycaps?

[lashiel]

Well, for basic mockups, you could probably find a template that you could then modify in Photoshop/GIMP. For the fancier renders, you'll probably want to hire/talk to a community member who does them. Thesiscamper does very nice full 3d renders, and harlw does some very nice... I don't know how to describe them, actually--you should take a look at Nantucket Selectric, since he did the renders for that.

Definetely keep pursuing this--it's not even remotely my intent to discourage--I think this is a neat idea, and you already seem to be garnering some interest.

As for OEM, I'm not positive if any of the custom manufacturers do commission/custom OEM profile caps.

SP and GMK (and JTK, kinda--they're just not taking community designs yet), do Cherry profile.
SP does SA and DSA profile.

[againer]

A matrix set sound nice.
I would prefer build quality over novelties -> GMK
And I hope there will be an decent ISO set too.

[FLFisherman]

So many choices to make, OP. Looks like you've generated a fair share of interest though. 

[DannyHuynh]

Like this ? 

[lishi]

Like this ? 

Show Image

If you're gonna go this route, OP, you'll definitely want to go with signature plastics for the custom moulds

[DannyHuynh]

If you're gonna go this route, OP, you'll definitely want to go with signature plastics for the custom moulds

I'm not OP though, just have an idea of a Matrix theme keyset also 

[mashby]

Like this ? 

Show Image

[xondat]

Like this ? 

Show Image

Show Image

Can confirm, did sploosh

[Special K]

Like this ? 

Show Image

That's nice.  Personally I would have all keys be black with green text, and then have an "add-on pack" of optional green modifier keys/blue pill/red pill/etc.  Is that possible?

[Special K]

Like this ? 

Show Image

If you're gonna go this route, OP, you'll definitely want to go with signature plastics for the custom moulds

As opposed to GMK?  If so, why?  Can GMK not produce the keyset DannyHuynh created?

Also how did you make that?

[FLFisherman]

Like this ? 

Show Image

That's nice.  Personally I would have all keys be black with green text, and then have an "add-on pack" of optional green modifier keys/blue pill/red pill/etc.  Is that possible?

Anything is possible. It's your set, after all.  :thumb:

[livingspeedbump]

I can say this. As it stands, having custom green legends on a black cap will be quite expensive. You can't dye sub a lighter legend on a darker keycap, so the only way to do this would be to make them doubleshots, which will cost ~$45 a cap, and around $4k for a full set.

From the looks of it, a 75% kit would be needed 

[livingspeedbump]

Like this ? 

Show Image

Looks pretty cool. Though I saw the novelties and the first thing i read was "There is no sperm" ?  :))

[cryptokey]

If you go with GMK green on black, then AE on CR, however I also think the dark grey of AE on N9 would look nice.  I'm a big fan of the colours and theme, so I'm interested but I've got to see how this set pans out. 

[lashiel]

I can say this. As it stands, having custom green legends on a black cap will be quite expensive. You can't dye sub a lighter legend on a darker keycap, so the only way to do this would be to make them doubleshots, which will cost ~$45 a cap, and around $4k for a full set.

From the looks of it, a 75% kit would be needed 

Show Image

This was my second thought :(

My first thought was that I didn't realize I needed green on black JIS keys in my life until I saw that picture.

[Special K]

I can say this. As it stands, having custom green legends on a black cap will be quite expensive. You can't dye sub a lighter legend on a darker keycap, so the only way to do this would be to make them doubleshots, which will cost ~$45 a cap, and around $4k for a full set.

From the looks of it, a 75% kit would be needed 

Show Image

Why would it cost $45/cap?  Is CR text on AE caps not the same as AE text on CR caps?  Don't GMK group buys sell for ~$120 or so per set?

[n__dles]

Why would it cost $45/cap?  Is CR text on AE caps not the same as AE text on CR caps?  Don't GMK group buys sell for ~$120 or so per set?

.. having custom green legends on a black cap will be quite expensive. You can't dye sub a lighter legend on a darker keycap, so the only way to do this would be to make them doubleshots, which will cost ~$45 a cap, and around $4k for a full set.

Just a heads up everyone. If you do want to make a group buy with doubleshot ABS and have plans for customized legends, say Chinese characters, you will need to pay for a new mold... when the Cherry Legends at SP were made, it cost $45 per keycap. So just in legend changes, the buy needed an extra $45*104 = $4680.

The reason I keep asking in threads if people are going to use dye-sub or doubleshots is that dyesubbing caps does not have the same legend fee. That is due to how the processes work.

If you are new to the scene and you want to make a keycap set, please keep this in mind.

• They're talking about SP, not GMK.
  
• It's a one time fee of $45, not $45 for every individual cap made

[DannyHuynh]

Added something, removed something, changed something 



Hope it didn't turn our weird 

[switchnollie]

SP's DCS profile is rather thin.

Not sure if they make custom sets with these but SP makes a thicker version of DCS that's about as thick as GMK.
I found them in my crap bag, same sculpt as DCS when set side by side.

[cryptokey]

SP's DCS profile is rather thin.

Not sure if they make custom sets with these but SP makes a thicker version of DCS that's about as thick as GMK.
I found them in my crap bag, same sculpt as DCS when set side by side.

(Attachment Link)

It's worth a shot to contact SP about making a custom set in that profile.  It looks quite nice actually.

[Melvang]

Why would it cost $45/cap?  Is CR text on AE caps not the same as AE text on CR caps?  Don't GMK group buys sell for ~$120 or so per set?

.. having custom green legends on a black cap will be quite expensive. You can't dye sub a lighter legend on a darker keycap, so the only way to do this would be to make them doubleshots, which will cost ~$45 a cap, and around $4k for a full set.

Just a heads up everyone. If you do want to make a group buy with doubleshot ABS and have plans for customized legends, say Chinese characters, you will need to pay for a new mold... when the Cherry Legends at SP were made, it cost $45 per keycap. So just in legend changes, the buy needed an extra $45*104 = $4680.

The reason I keep asking in threads if people are going to use dye-sub or doubleshots is that dyesubbing caps does not have the same legend fee. That is due to how the processes work.

If you are new to the scene and you want to make a keycap set, please keep this in mind.

• They're talking about SP, not GMK.
  
• It's a one time fee of $45, not $45 for every individual cap made

It is in face $45 PER LEGEND.

[n__dles]

Man, there's some communication break down in this thread.

You tell Special K,

which will cost ~$45 a cap, and around $4k for a full set.

From his response, it would seem that he thinks every individual physical keycap produced would cost $45, and that every person who purchased a set would pay around $4k.

Why would it cost $45/cap?  Is CR text on AE caps not the same as AE text on CR caps?  Don't GMK group buys sell for ~$120 or so per set?

I tried to clarify what you said for Special K,

It's a one time fee of $45, not $45 for every individual cap made

I guess you think I meant it would be a unique fee of $45 for the entire set,

It is in face $45 PER LEGEND.

Since informal speech has led to these ambiguities, here's my understanding expressed in predicate logic: ∀ n ∃! f where n is a new double shot legend, and f is a $45 fee. 

Phew! I think (hope?) everyone is on the same page, let me know if I'm wrong.

[1deeg]

I don't care for the fancy spacebars but if the colors are done right this could be really awesome

[Special K]

After messaging some of the more experienced GB members I've realized I still have a lot of work to do, but I recently found this:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/

and will be using it to create some samples.

[livingspeedbump]

Man, there's some communication break down in this thread.

You tell Special K,

which will cost ~$45 a cap, and around $4k for a full set.

From his response, it would seem that he thinks every individual physical keycap produced would cost $45, and that every person who purchased a set would pay around $4k.

Why would it cost $45/cap?  Is CR text on AE caps not the same as AE text on CR caps?  Don't GMK group buys sell for ~$120 or so per set?

I tried to clarify what you said for Special K,

It's a one time fee of $45, not $45 for every individual cap made

I guess you think I meant it would be a unique fee of $45 for the entire set,

It is in face $45 PER LEGEND.

Since informal speech has led to these ambiguities, here's my understanding expressed in predicate logic: ∀ n ∃! f where n is a new double shot legend, and f is a $45 fee. 

Phew! I think (hope?) everyone is on the same page, let me know if I'm wrong.

Yes. You are correct. That $45 fee is the price for them to make a mold, and that cost is then added into the kit of the buy and distributed out among everyone that buys it. So, a single novelty for example, wont really create a noticeable pricing rise, but having 15 will. This is an issue that plagued Modern Selectric due to having the Icon Modifiers. Most kits have 10 or less custom keys.

So lets say you want a full custom font (something that is currently being funded elsewhere in the community). If you wanted a full custom font, you'd have to pay for the 104 molds needed for the set. Lets call that cost 5k just to be easy. Now, if you were to buy only 1 set, you'd have to pay full pricing for the set, say $150, PLUS 5k. So the set is $5,150 total with one unit sold. Now, say 100 people buy the set. That price is now split between all the people, and all the sets, making the price around $200 (150 base cost+50 legend fee that is already added into the actual cost) of the set. Does this makes sense?

So you wont be paying out of pocket for the molds. You will just have to reach MOQ or those molds/subsequent kits simply wont be made. A significant number of custom keys will result in a significant price increase for everyone though, and generally I advise against this when possible. In the case of the Matrix font, I don't think it is worth it. Unlike a font with molds that can be used for other sets later, this would be a very specific niche set, and likely kill this group buy with the extreme costs.

[Special K]

OK, here are a couple mock-ups:

Hmm, for some reason the CR color looks like dark green.  The keycaps are supposed to be black.

Another thing I noticed is the legends on some of the keys don't match what I have seen on other GMK sets.  For example, "Enter" is just an arrow in every other GMK keycap set I have seen.  Also there doesn't appear to be any way to make things like a stepped Caps Lock.

[livingspeedbump]

OK, here are a couple mock-ups:

Hmm, for some reason the CR color looks like dark green.  The keycaps are supposed to be black.

Another thing I noticed is the legends on some of the keys don't match what I have seen on other GMK sets.  For example, "Enter" is just an arrow in every other GMK keycap set I have seen.  Also there doesn't appear to be any way to make things like a stepped Caps Lock.

Under "misc" at the bottom of the page you can select "steeped" fyi

[DannyHuynh]

Here's a potato render 



If there's no interest, I'll probably think of some other ideas for a keyset 

[xondat]

Here's a potato render 

Show Image

If there's no interest, I'll probably think of some other ideas for a keyset  :(

Looks good, seeing it like this justifies it a bit more.

[Special K]

Here's a potato render 

Show Image

If there's no interest, I'll probably think of some other ideas for a keyset  :(

Nice!  Although it looks like adding the Matrix characters as secondary legends would drive the cost up quite a bit.

[qazeqaz]

I think the Matrix code would be way cooler. Ditch the real text or make it small like the recent Massdrop Elven characters.

[DannyHuynh]

I think the Matrix code would be way cooler. Ditch the real text or make it small like the recent Massdrop Elven characters.

But the whole point of the matrix digital code rain is about including both of the alphanumeric letters and japanese katakana, without either, it doesn't seem really justified, for me at least. 

how about another potato...

...in full hd