TotalNoob?: Mousepointer Speed Questions,

[shogrran]

Good day guys.

Another total noob question thread.

I just recently started posting in this forum since I got interested in peripherals and input devices. Admittedly I am new to this and know only of a few make and models.

Here is my third total noob question: I am working on windows7 as most of us still are and we all know that one of the Windows 7 control panel options is for the mouse and which lets you set "pointer speed". Mice nowadays have their own built in DPI which in itself affects how fast you can move the pointer across your screen. I have an SS.Sensei and an R.Salmosa myself which are very fast mice and I game at high DPI settings. (or C.P.I if some of you will argue)

For accuracy purposes and FPS games, which is better? Setting your Windows7 options to low and then setting the DPI/Settings to high on your mouse? Is it better to set the mouse options to middle (as default by windows) and then choosing your preferred dpi on the mouse? Or is it better to set the mouse on lowest dpi and then adjust the mouse options in the Windows7 control panel?

The Windows7 mouse options is it really speeding up the mouse? Or does it just skip pixels on your screen? Same question for the mouse settings for DPI, is it speeding up the mouse or does it just skip pixels?

To go more specific with the question... the SteelSeries Sensei's double CPI setting... is it comparable to a camera having hardware zoom and digital zoom? Hardware zoom being that the camera's lens can really adjust and focus and digital zoom being that the camera is just enlarging the pixels to produce a zooming effect?

[Foodmanchew]

Personally, I like to keep the windows 7 cursor speed settings in the default position and just adjust mouse sensitivity in games. also, make sure "Enhance Pointer Precision" is unselected to disable acceleration. I think the amount of dpi that you can actually use is limited by your monitor resolution at a point. I have a 1920x1080 resolution and I don't go above 2000dpi. There are some pretty in depth guides over at Overclock.net that talk all about curser accuracy, dpi, sensitivity, etc.

[RamaBot]

First Set the mouse DPI to the required setting. On my Xai I set the DPI to 3600.

Then lower the windows pointer speed down to the point where you feel most comfortable with it on the desktop.

The windows driver will scale down the DPI to fit with the setting you have. All the driver knows is how far the mouse has moved since it polled it last. It then Multiplies this distance/vector by a value and then applies it to the mouse position that it reports to any other program that asks for it.

Games take there input from the windows drivers so you will need to reduce the sensitivity within the game.

As the inputs are scaled resolution is not lost so you will notice smoother movement. Especially when sniping etc.

So to recap. Set the mouse DPI to as high as you want. Then lower the windows sensitivity. Then adjust the movement/look speed in game.

The other thing that effects the distance that the OS reports to the program is the poll rate. The higher the poll rate then the smaller the time slices in reporting so the lower the distance in each report.

Higher DPI will allow the OS to report smaller movements - great for graphics where you have to be accurate.
Higher poll rates will allow more accurate reaction times when you are playing a game.

There is a limit on poll rates where the human brain just cannot notice the higher resolution of the report time.
The only limit on DPI is the resolution of montors.

[TheProfosist]

I do the same as ripster and that is what is recommended byt companies such as SteelSeries.

[RamaBot]

There really is no correct way. It's all personal preference.
But if you leave the windows setting at 6 and then adjust the DPI down then there is no point in having a high DPI mouse.
A lot of people I know do it the way Ripster says but I like to have my mouse at a high DPI all of the time. That is why I bought it.
I would have it at 5000 DPI but the windows setting is a low resolution multiplier that just doesn't allow me to set it at a position that allows my normal tracking speed on the desktop at 5000 DPI.
Most of the players that companies such as Steelseries sponsor are actually low-mid DPI players. That is why they tend to use that method. You only have to download the Xai profiles form Steelseries to see that most of them use less than 1200 DPI.

The fact is that for accuracy ( and that is what Shogrran asked about )  you have to have the mouse at the highest DPI it can go. There is no other way to look at it. The PC can only work with the data that is fed to it by the mouse. The higher the DPI the higher the resolution of the input.

[shogrran]

@RamaBot

I think we're kinda thinking along the same lines here. I just can't find the words to properly express myself.

I just don't want my mouse to be "skipping" pixels or just using software to intelligently "hop" to the next pixel to simulate "speed"

I used digital cameras as an analogy earlier. The old digital cameras have two types of zoom -- the normal zoom where you use the lenses themselves to zoom in on the subject and then the digital zoom where the camera just uses its software to zoom in on the subject -- but in reality its just making the pixels bigger, simulating a zoom but in effect reduces quality and accuracy.

What I was asking is does the windows speed option do that or does it really speed up your mouse? And as a question directly on the Sensei... the DCPI setting. The DCPI settings on the engine really resembles that of the digital zoom.

[TheProfosist]

Wouldnt changing dpi in game then have a much more drastic and unreliable change? I personally really see no need for the surper high dpi mice and 1600 dpi ( the max i use is more then enough for my dual monitor setup). I was previously using 600 and 1600 on my Ikari Laser but when I got my G700 I added 1100.

[RamaBot]

shogran. I had to upgrade my mouse from the IO 1.1 when I got a higher resolution monitor because at the spped I like to move my mouse on the desktop it was impossible to move it a distance of 1 pixel on the scrren. It would move 2 or three pixels which made it useless for my graphic work.

The windows mouse speed slider is just a multiplier. It takes this distance reported by the mouse and multiplies it to either make it smaller or larger.
With my old mouse I had to have the slider so low to stop pixel skipping that my mouse would have to move too large a distance on my desk. And as I am a claw gripper and only move my wrist this was uncomfortable for me.

I understand digital and optical zoom. The comparison is valid. With digital zoom the pixels are scaled within the camera after the sensor has the image information and so no extra information about the image is in the camera.
With the windows slider the value is scaled in the same way to make the pointer move faster. If you leave the windows slider where you normally have it and then plug in a higher DPI mouse the windows pointer will move a larger distance for the same hand movement. If you then bring the slider down windows will multiply the movement down so it now has a higher resolution value. Then if you are playing an FPS game the turn will be in finer increments than with the lower DPI mouse. This can be useful for shooting people at a distance more accurately as you will be able to target things better at a greater distance on the map.

[zareliman]

The best is to use 6/11 in windows, which is 1:1 count:pixel movement, no interpolation, no acceleration. You must also disable "pointer precision". Then adjust the CPI for your desired sensitivity.

Why ?, using some settings like 5/11 or 7/11 will give you some weird movement ratios which will end in an uneven count per pixel movement (you can't divide a pixel so you get the picture). If your mouse won't give enough CPI, then use 8/11 which is an exact 2:1 ratio to avoid weird 1.33:1 ratios and so, but you'll be skipping half your pixels.
Why not to max the CPI and lower the ratio in windows ? The sensors use to perform their best on lower cpi settings in terms of pixel precise movement and malfunction speed.

[shogrran]

@TheProfosist

I don't change the DPI/CPI in game.

My current personal setting right now is at Windows options - 2/11 and Sensei Engine CPI - 4300/2100.

When I am in a game like counterstrike I don't switch CPI speeds. Primarily because I lived during the times that switching CPI hasn't even been invented. I am more used to adjusting myself rather than the mouse. That's probably the same reason why I feel the exactaim and exactaccel options on the Sensei is a super helpful breakthrough for guys like me. Because it automatically detects when I'm moving my mouse fast..and gives me more cpi for that OR if I'm moving my mouse slower and then gives me more control.

I kinda think its like the turbo boost systems and eco-friendly programs for Intel CPUs. They boost up performance when you need it and down-clock your processor when you don't. But that's just my personal preference.

[senndhaboex]

Um, I'm sorry for being totalnoob, but why the "enhance pointer precision" should be turned off? I already used to it and IMO, it does really enhance the pointer precision. With this option turned off, i felt that my pointer is trembling. Oh, and, i use entry-level gaming mouse, a4tech XL-747H on 1600 DPI. Mousepad is SS QcK+.

[TheProfosist]

It does the opposite of enhancing it add acceleration to the mouse.

[czarek]

I use my mouse at maxed out DPI (3500) and set the zoom factor to 1.0 and switch off all kinds of acceleration.
When I use my trackball with very low DPI (300 according to Ripster's wiki) I set the zoom factor to 5.0 and set up the acceleration curve to be more logarithmic than linear.
I don't game much but if I do i set scaling factor to 1.0, turn off smoothing, acceleration and any other stuff. Interpolation is irritating.

[shogrran]

I tried a few settings in a span of "since i started this thread" and I will have to give +1 to ripster. I'm not really sure but it felt better when settings were default on windows and then adjusting to taste on the mouse.

The effect of lowering the acceleration settings on windows settings is just like setting it to a higher than 6/11 settings -- only the opposite of skipping pixels.  That's what I felt like at least.

I suggest everyone try this and tell us your feedback.

[czarek]

I tried a few settings in a span of "since i started this thread" and I will have to give +1 to ripster. I'm not really sure but it felt better when settings were default on windows and then adjusting to taste on the mouse.

The effect of lowering the acceleration settings on windows settings is just like setting it to a higher than 6/11 settings -- only the opposite of skipping pixels.  That's what I felt like at least.

I suggest everyone try this and tell us your feedback.

As far as Ripster says 6/11 setting in windows is equal to 1.0 zoom factor which means no interpolation or anything. That's why it feels so much better.
Btw on a Mac the setting for 1.0 zoom is 6/10 in mouse pref pane. I found that out by using Mouse Zoom pref pane which allows you to set this value below and above standard pref pane, it also shows the numeric value.

[TheProfosist]

Its also recommended as you can easily predict what will happen when you change dpi for faster or slower movement.

[Artillery]

I'm using Windows 7 and here is how I have it setup on mine.

Windows mouse sensitivity at 6/11.  Enhance pointer precision off.  Install MarkC acceleration fix for older games.

I use a G400, which maxes at 3200DPI.  I keep it at 1600DPI for all use.  I would also just like to say that more DPI is not better, it justs means exactly that, more DPI.  If you have a 1:1 response from your mouse any ways all it means is you can move farther on your desktop.

Also to not is that in certain games if you pick the wrong mouse sensitivity settings it can also cause rounding errors, there was one in Starcraft 2 before they added support for raw input.  In any game you play select raw input if you have an adjustable DPI mouse, then you can skip various smoothing that engines tend to do automatically.  Source games have support for this, you can see the effect pretty clearly in Portal 2.

Put simply, mouse acceleration is bad, do whatever you can to avoid dealing with it.  Moving 1cm on your mouse pad should always move you the same amount regardless of frame rate or how quickly you move the 1cm.  Playing Unreal Tournament and Team Fortress did this to me, need to be able to do rocket jumps off of muscle memory and can't do that with mouse accleration.