rollermouse pro 2 pics!

[jpc]

In the past year, I picked up a couple pointing devices. The big guy front and center is a new addition.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23121[/ATTACH]

Not shown: a Unicomp Endurapro, a CST, a Logitech Trackman Wheel, and a ThinkPad touchpad.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23122[/ATTACH]

Whatever hand I point with still gets twitchy and sore. Maybe the rollermouse will solve it once and for all?

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23123[/ATTACH]

It's heavy. Solid. Easy to start using. High res.

It's Linux-friendly. All five buttons generate unique button codes in Linux with no special software. The left and right buttons send codes 1 and 3 as you would expect. The "Double Click" button sends code 2; it also can be set (via a hardware switch) to send two code 1s. The Copy and Paste buttons send codes 8 and 9. The xinput utility can tune the acceleration and xmodmap can reassign the buttons any way you like.

Contour Design has a 30-day free trial offer, in case you don't want to buy a $200 mouse sight unseen.

I will post a full review after the new-toy-review cool-off period has elapsed, as required by law.

[Input Nirvana]

I love mine used for 2 years. Awesome and worth every penny. I'm going to mod one soon.

[jpc]

The rollermouse is a mechanical touchpad. It's like using a touchpad, but more precise. The motion and momentum of the roller create haptic feedback.

@inputnirvana: You're shortening a rollermouse, right? Makes sense. They are wiiiide. On the upside, you don't often reach the edge of the left-right axis, that isn't an issue at all.

[Input Nirvana]

I've figured that the unaccelerated movement of the bar is 4" side to side. So 8" should give the coverage needed, plus if you factor in some acceleration, you shouldn't hit the edges too often, but I know it will happen more. The price you pay to integrate in a Kinesis Contoured keyboard! I think the overall length will be 10".

[jpc]

You are a madman!! Integrated in a Kinesis? I can't wait to see the pics :biggrin:

I wish Kinesis would integrate a medium size trackball into the center of the Kinesis. There's room for it; the board is tall enough at the center. I'd buy one.

An integrated rollermouse would work too.

The rollermouse is an excellent wrist rest for a flat keyboard. Its roller is located perfectly for a flat keyboard. When you pair it with a Kinesis, it's good but less perfect. Hmmm.

[Input Nirvana]

You are a madman!! Integrated in a Kinesis? I can't wait to see the pics :biggrin:

I'm not sure how and where it will go. There may have to be a compromise. I hate compromises.

 

I wish Kinesis would integrate a medium size trackball into the center of the Kinesis. There's room for it; the board is tall enough at the center. I'd buy one.
An integrated rollermouse would work too.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23130[/ATTACH]

 

The rollermouse is an excellent wrist rest for a flat keyboard. Its roller is located perfectly for a flat keyboard. When you pair it with a Kinesis, it's good but less perfect. Hmmm.

I KNOW!!

[woody]

The Copy and Paste buttons send codes 8 and 9.

Good, there's a progress in the right direction.

I will post a full review after the new-toy-review cool-off period has elapsed, as required by law.

Please do. The wristpad and less hand movement tempts me, but the price in EU doesn't allow easy tryout.

BTW, since you mentioned your occupation, does that mean you do lot of GUI stuff?

[jpc]

does that mean you do lot of GUI stuff?

Yes, recently.

In Linux I use a window manager (Awesome) that gives keyboard control over window placement and focus. Highly recommended. Ask me for my Colemak-Kinesis-Awesome config file!

Recently I'm developing on Windows at work. That means more mousing. Hence the rollermouse.

At least there is emacs for Windows, all keyboard controlled.

[woody]

I was just wondering which land are you in - arch, RTL, verification, layout, etc.
Should be one of the first two based on your answer.

You're also an evil human. I am awaiting your review after some usage, because now that the seed is planted, I will have to think hard about pros and cons.

BTW, is the keyboard lifter removable? I don't see much point in it for my keyboards.

[Input Nirvana]

Contour Designs has a free trial, take advantage of it. They are smart marketers, they know once you use it, you will most likely keep it, because t's really that good. Be sure to look at the couple other Rollermouse reviews on the site. Plus, from an RSI perspective, I'm glad jpc finally got one, he will probably start feeling a little better very quickly, which is really the only important factor in the big picture.

My professional and personal view:
If you are using and looking at it from a professional standpoint 1) it will save you time, 2) it will make your actions easier. That justifies it's cost in a month, maybe two. If you are looking at it from a personal perspective, what other costs do you have to make your life better? Make the comparison (I have one Rollermouse that is 7 years old, and one that is 1 year old). If you spend $170 on a great keyboard for yourself, why would you limit yourself to a $45 pointing device? It's sort of a package deal.

[woody]

Contour Designs has a free trial, take advantage of it.

I'd like to, but I'm not US based. My best option is from KeyboardCo (about $300) plus associated shipping, etc.

My professional and personal view:
If you are using and looking at it from a professional standpoint 1) it will save you time, 2) it will make your actions easier. That justifies it's cost in a month, maybe two. If you are looking at it from a personal perspective, what other costs do you have to make your life better? Make the comparison (I have one Rollermouse that is 7 years old, and one that is 1 year old). If you spend $170 on a great keyboard for yourself, why would you limit yourself to a $45 pointing device? It's sort of a package deal.

Cost is not that big of a problem if it would serve me well. Which I am not sure by just looking at pictures or the few paragraphs in the description.
So far I am using a Kensington Slimblade and very much liking it, so the switch to (or addition of?) Rollermouse is based just on the wish to reduce hand travel. On the other hand, switching to a very different and unknown pointing device (close to $400 for me) is considerable risk. Plus my doubts about the width and the lifter, how they would cope with the keyboards I use.

That's why I am in "investigation" mode and not pulling the trigger. And reviews and opinions of users like you are helpful and appreciated.

[Input Nirvana]

$$$$$ WOW!!! Now THAT gives me pause!!!

Where are you?
Is Rollermouse Free an option for you? (Not Rollermouse Free 2)

It is quite different. I just took these pics of how I use a Rollermouse with my Kinesis daily. NOT OPTIMAL, but still fantastic! Works much better with a flat keyboard. Now you see why I'm trying to mod one into the Kinesis. I use this model with the backplate, because I often move the keyboard off desks and have on lap or whatever. I can't do that without the backplate.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23199[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23200[/ATTACH]

The Rollermouse Free uses a scroll wheel as the picture shows. The Rollermouse Free 2 uses a wider scroll wheel, same functionality/features. [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 23206[/ATTACH]

[bionicroach]

I love my RollerMouse as well.  I'm currently using a RollerMouse Free 2, which also has the nice bonus of having a little higher DPI (adjustable from 800 to 1600 in 200 DPI increments).  I've found that the extra DPI helps reduce the frequency with which you hit the edges of the side-to-side bar movement, which is honestly the only real complaint I have about the RollerMouse design.  (This problem is basically the equivalent of having to lift a traditional mouse off the mousepad and reposition when you run out of room.)

One other thing of note is that the scroll wheel on the Free 2, in addition to being wider than the original Free, spins smoothly as opposed to the ratcheted "click" action.  What I really want is a Logitech hyperscroll type of wheel, so I'm pretty much on the fence between the two.

The Free 2 is also a teeny bit lower profile than the original Free, which does make it a little easier to keep your wrists in a neutral position.  (Although with a Kinesis Contour, it might be a disadvantage since that keyboard is pretty tall.)

[jpc]

On the Pro 2, part of the keyboard lifter is permanent. With a flat keyboard, that's no problem-- you can set the keyboard lifter to its lowest position and keep your flat keyboard flat.

The permanent keyboard lifter prevents you from elevating the rollermouse to match the height of a Kinesis. (I'm not sure that would work anyway; the rollermouse might then bump wrists as you type.)

[Input Nirvana]

What changes have you made to Colemak? I notice it is a little right-hand heavy.

[ambroise]

One other thing of note is that the scroll wheel on the Free 2, in addition to being wider than the original Free, spins smoothly as opposed to the ratcheted "click" action. )

Hi bionicroach,

When you say the new Rollermouse Pro 2 scroll wheel spins free.

Does it free like a logitech scroll wheel?
i.e. you just need to flick it down once and it will keep on spinning around?

I have the 1st version and I really don't like the scroll wheel on that one.

[Input Nirvana]

It's not a Hyperscroll, it just doesn't ratchet. Hyperscroll is the ****! I am trying to see how to mod the Hyperscroll (that I bought for this purpose) into the Rollermouse. Will be involved. The pcb needs to me remade. I took pics of the interior of the Rollermouse so peeps could see what's going in in there (not much, just a damn great idea).

[woody]

$$$$$ WOW!!! Now THAT gives me pause!!!

Where are you?

Eastern EU.

Is Rollermouse Free an option for you? (Not Rollermouse Free 2)

No --> http://keyboardco.com/

Now that I look at the three Rollermouse products at KeyboardCo, I think the Free 2 is the most interesting for me, since it has no lifter. And, of course, it's the most expensive one.

Doesn't putting a keyboard onto the lifter make it unstable / wobbly?

[Input Nirvana]

Not that I've been able to determine, as long as the bottom of the keyboard is flat. There may be a few unique situations though.

[bionicroach]

Hi bionicroach,

When you say the new Rollermouse Pro 2 scroll wheel spins free.

Does it free like a logitech scroll wheel?
i.e. you just need to flick it down once and it will keep on spinning around?

I have the 1st version and I really don't like the scroll wheel on that one.

No, unfortunately, input nirvana is correct -- the wheel on the Free 2 has no ratcheting clicks, but it has much more friction than a Logitech wheel.  If you flick it, it will spin maybe one revolution tops.  It's too bad modding in a Logitech wheel sounds so difficult.

The Free 2 wheel is certainly not BAD, it's just nothing special.  It is easier to scroll long distances than with the ratcheting, yet there is enough friction that scrolling small distances is still fairly precise.

[jpc]

I haven't made changes to Colemak, except for keeping Caps Lock as Caps Lock. Colemak is nice right out of the box. I'll never go back to qwerty. You're right, Colemak is a bit right-handed.

The Awesome window manager is all keyboard controlled, it uses a lot of Win+(something) shortcuts to move and resize windows, switch desktops, etc. The default shortcuts make sense spatially on QWERTY; adjacent key pairs will indicate up/down, left/right, previous/next, larger/smaller. All those keys need to be reassigned on Colemak. To make it work with the Kinesis, you want the Win key on one hand and all the paired Win+(something) keys on the other. I bind Insert to the Windows key on a pre-windows-key Kinesis.

This is my awesome rc.lua file:

-- Standard awesome library
require("awful")
require("awful.autofocus")
require("awful.rules")
-- Theme handling library
require("beautiful")
-- Notification library
require("naughty")

-- {{{ Variable definitions
-- Themes define colours, icons, and wallpapers
beautiful.init("/tool/pandora/.package/awesome-3.4.9/share/awesome/themes/sky/theme.lua")

-- This is used later as the default terminal and editor to run.
terminal = "xterm"
editor = os.getenv("EDITOR") or "nano"
editor_cmd = terminal .. " -e " .. editor

-- Default modkey.
-- Usually, Mod4 is the key with a logo between Control and Alt.
-- If you do not like this or do not have such a key,
-- I suggest you to remap Mod4 to another key using xmodmap or other tools.
-- However, you can use another modifier like Mod1, but it may interact with others.
modkey = "Mod4"

-- Table of layouts to cover with awful.layout.inc, order matters.
layouts =
{
--    awful.layout.suit.floating,
    awful.layout.suit.tile,
    awful.layout.suit.tile.left,
    awful.layout.suit.tile.bottom,
    awful.layout.suit.tile.top,
    awful.layout.suit.fair,
    awful.layout.suit.fair.horizontal,
--    awful.layout.suit.spiral,
--  awful.layout.suit.spiral.dwindle,
    awful.layout.suit.max,
--    awful.layout.suit.max.fullscreen,
--    awful.layout.suit.magnifier
}
-- }}}

-- {{{ Tags
-- Define a tag table which hold all screen tags.
tags = {}
for s = 1, screen.count() do
    -- Each screen has its own tag table.
    tags = awful.tag({ 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 }, s, layouts[1])
end
-- }}}

-- {{{ Menu
-- Create a laucher widget and a main menu
myawesomemenu = {
   { "manual", terminal .. " -e man awesome" },
   { "edit config", editor_cmd .. " " .. awful.util.getdir("config") .. "/rc.lua" },
   { "restart", awesome.restart },
   { "quit", awesome.quit }
}

mymainmenu = awful.menu({ items = { { "awesome", myawesomemenu, beautiful.awesome_icon },
                                    { "open terminal", terminal }
                                  }
                        })

mylauncher = awful.widget.launcher({ image = image(beautiful.awesome_icon),
                                     menu = mymainmenu })
-- }}}

-- {{{ Wibox
-- Create a textclock widget
mytextclock = awful.widget.textclock({ align = "right" })

-- Create a systray
mysystray = widget({ type = "systray" })

-- Create a wibox for each screen and add it
mywibox = {}
mypromptbox = {}
mylayoutbox = {}
mytaglist = {}
mytaglist.buttons = awful.util.table.join(
                    awful.button({ }, 1, awful.tag.viewonly),
                    awful.button({ modkey }, 1, awful.client.movetotag),
                    awful.button({ }, 3, awful.tag.viewtoggle),
                    awful.button({ modkey }, 3, awful.client.toggletag),
                    awful.button({ }, 4, awful.tag.viewnext),
                    awful.button({ }, 5, awful.tag.viewprev)
                    )
mytasklist = {}
mytasklist.buttons = awful.util.table.join(
                     awful.button({ }, 1, function (c)
                                              if not c:isvisible() then
                                                  awful.tag.viewonly(c:tags()[1])
                                              end
                                              client.focus = c
                                              c:raise()
                                          end),
                     awful.button({ }, 3, function ()
                                              if instance then
                                                  instance:hide()
                                                  instance = nil
                                              else
                                                  instance = awful.menu.clients({ width=250 })
                                              end
                                          end),
                     awful.button({ }, 4, function ()
                                              awful.client.focus.byidx(1)
                                              if client.focus then client.focus:raise() end
                                          end),
                     awful.button({ }, 5, function ()
                                              awful.client.focus.byidx(-1)
                                              if client.focus then client.focus:raise() end
                                          end))

for s = 1, screen.count() do
    -- Create a promptbox for each screen
    mypromptbox = awful.widget.prompt({ layout = awful.widget.layout.horizontal.leftright })
    -- Create an imagebox widget which will contains an icon indicating which layout we're using.
    -- We need one layoutbox per screen.
    mylayoutbox = awful.widget.layoutbox(s)
    mylayoutbox:buttons(awful.util.table.join(
                           awful.button({ }, 1, function () awful.layout.inc(layouts, 1) end),
                           awful.button({ }, 3, function () awful.layout.inc(layouts, -1) end),
                           awful.button({ }, 4, function () awful.layout.inc(layouts, 1) end),
                           awful.button({ }, 5, function () awful.layout.inc(layouts, -1) end)))
    -- Create a taglist widget
    mytaglist = awful.widget.taglist(s, awful.widget.taglist.label.all, mytaglist.buttons)

    -- Create a tasklist widget
    mytasklist = awful.widget.tasklist(function(c)
                                              return awful.widget.tasklist.label.currenttags(c, s)
                                          end, mytasklist.buttons)

    -- Create the wibox
    mywibox = awful.wibox({ position = "top", screen = s })
    -- Add widgets to the wibox - order matters
    mywibox.widgets = {
        {
            mylauncher,
            mytaglist,
            mypromptbox,
            layout = awful.widget.layout.horizontal.leftright
        },
        mylayoutbox,
        mytextclock,
        s == 1 and mysystray or nil,
        mytasklist,
        layout = awful.widget.layout.horizontal.rightleft
    }
end
-- }}}

-- {{{ Mouse bindings
root.buttons(awful.util.table.join(
    awful.button({ }, 3, function () mymainmenu:toggle() end),
    awful.button({ }, 4, awful.tag.viewnext),
    awful.button({ }, 5, awful.tag.viewprev)
))
-- }}}

-- {{{ Key bindings
globalkeys = awful.util.table.join(
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "Left",   awful.tag.viewprev       ),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "Right",  awful.tag.viewnext       ),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "Up",   awful.tag.viewprev       ),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "Down",  awful.tag.viewnext       ),

    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "Escape", awful.tag.history.restore),

    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "e",
        function ()
            awful.client.focus.byidx( 1)
            if client.focus then client.focus:raise() end
        end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "n",
        function ()
            awful.client.focus.byidx(-1)
            if client.focus then client.focus:raise() end
        end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "w", function () mymainmenu:show({keygrabber=true}) end),

    -- Layout manipulation
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "Next", function () awful.client.swap.byidx(  1)    end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "Prior",  function () awful.client.swap.byidx( -1)    end),
    awful.key({ modkey, "Control" }, "e", function () awful.screen.focus_relative( 1) end),
    awful.key({ modkey, "Control" }, "n", function () awful.screen.focus_relative(-1) end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "y", awful.client.urgent.jumpto),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "Tab",
        function ()
            awful.client.focus.history.previous()
            if client.focus then
                client.focus:raise()
            end
        end),

    -- Standard program
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "Return", function () awful.util.spawn(terminal) end),
    awful.key({ modkey, "Control" }, "r", awesome.restart),
    awful.key({ modkey, "Shift"   }, "q", awesome.quit),

    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "u",     function () awful.tag.incmwfact( 0.05)    end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "l",     function () awful.tag.incmwfact(-0.05)    end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "comma", function () awful.tag.incnmaster( 1)      end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "period",function () awful.tag.incnmaster(-1)      end),
    awful.key({ modkey, "Control" }, "l",     function () awful.tag.incncol( 1)         end),
    awful.key({ modkey, "Control" }, "u",     function () awful.tag.incncol(-1)         end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "space", function () awful.layout.inc(layouts,  1) end),
    awful.key({ modkey, "Shift"   }, "space", function () awful.layout.inc(layouts, -1) end),

    -- Prompt
    awful.key({ modkey },            "r",     function () mypromptbox[mouse.screen]:run() end),

    awful.key({ modkey }, "x",
              function ()
                  awful.prompt.run({ prompt = "Run Lua code: " },
                  mypromptbox[mouse.screen].widget,
                  awful.util.eval, nil,
                  awful.util.getdir("cache") .. "/history_eval")
              end)
)

clientkeys = awful.util.table.join(
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "f",      function (c) c.fullscreen = not c.fullscreen  end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "minus",      function (c) c:kill()                         end),
    awful.key({ modkey, "Control" }, "space",  awful.client.floating.toggle                     ),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "i",   function (c) c:swap(awful.client.getmaster()) end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "o",      awful.client.movetoscreen                        ),
    awful.key({ modkey, "Shift"   }, "r",      function (c) c:redraw()                       end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "t",      function (c) c.ontop = not c.ontop            end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "k",      function (c) c.minimized = not c.minimized    end),
    awful.key({ modkey,           }, "m",
        function (c)
            c.maximized_horizontal = not c.maximized_horizontal
            c.maximized_vertical   = not c.maximized_vertical
        end)
)

-- Compute the maximum number of digit we need, limited to 9
keynumber = 0
for s = 1, screen.count() do
   keynumber = math.min(9, math.max(#tags, keynumber));
end

-- Bind all key numbers to tags.
-- Be careful: we use keycodes to make it works on any keyboard layout.
-- This should map on the top row of your keyboard, usually 1 to 9.
for i = 1, keynumber do
    globalkeys = awful.util.table.join(globalkeys,
        awful.key({ modkey }, "#" .. i + 9,
                  function ()
                        local screen = mouse.screen
                        if tags[screen] then
                            awful.tag.viewonly(tags[screen])
                        end
                  end),
        awful.key({ modkey, "Control" }, "#" .. i + 9,
                  function ()
                      local screen = mouse.screen
                      if tags[screen] then
                          awful.tag.viewtoggle(tags[screen])
                      end
                  end),
        awful.key({ modkey, "Shift" }, "#" .. i + 9,
                  function ()
                      if client.focus and tags[client.focus.screen] then
                          awful.client.movetotag(tags[client.focus.screen])
                      end
                  end),
        awful.key({ modkey, "Control", "Shift" }, "#" .. i + 9,
                  function ()
                      if client.focus and tags[client.focus.screen] then
                          awful.client.toggletag(tags[client.focus.screen])
                      end
                  end))
end

clientbuttons = awful.util.table.join(
    awful.button({ }, 1, function (c) client.focus = c; c:raise() end),
    awful.button({ modkey }, 1, awful.mouse.client.move),
    awful.button({ modkey }, 3, awful.mouse.client.resize))

-- Set keys
root.keys(globalkeys)
-- }}}

-- {{{ Rules
awful.rules.rules = {
    -- All clients will match this rule.
    { rule = { },
      properties = { border_width = beautiful.border_width,
                     border_color = beautiful.border_normal,
                     focus = true,
                     keys = clientkeys,
                     buttons = clientbuttons } },
    { rule = { class = "MPlayer" },
      properties = { floating = true } },
    { rule = { class = "pinentry" },
      properties = { floating = true } },
    { rule = { class = "gimp" },
      properties = { floating = true } },
    -- Set Firefox to always map on tags number 2 of screen 1.
    -- { rule = { class = "Firefox" },
    --   properties = { tag = tags[1][2] } },
}
-- }}}

-- {{{ Signals
-- Signal function to execute when a new client appears.
client.add_signal("manage", function (c, startup)
    -- Add a titlebar
    -- awful.titlebar.add(c, { modkey = modkey })

    -- Enable sloppy focus
    c:add_signal("mouse::enter", function(c)
        if awful.layout.get(c.screen) ~= awful.layout.suit.magnifier
            and awful.client.focus.filter(c) then
            client.focus = c
        end
    end)

    if not startup then
        -- Set the windows at the slave,
        -- i.e. put it at the end of others instead of setting it master.
        -- awful.client.setslave(c)

        -- Put windows in a smart way, only if they does not set an initial position.
        if not c.size_hints.user_position and not c.size_hints.program_position then
            awful.placement.no_overlap(c)
            awful.placement.no_offscreen(c)
        end
    end
end)

client.add_signal("focus", function(c) c.border_color = beautiful.border_focus end)
client.add_signal("unfocus", function(c) c.border_color = beautiful.border_normal end)
-- }}}

(Not shown: the binding of Insert to be mod4, aka windows key. I do that in xmodmap.)

Here's a summary of what this config does:

Window manager control

Mod4 + Control + r
    Restart awesome.

Mod4 + Shift + q
    Quit awesome.

Mod4 + r
    Run prompt.

Mod4 + x
    Run Lua code prompt.

Mod4 + Return
    Spawn terminal emulator.

Mod4 + w
    Open main menu.


Clients

Mod4 + Shift + r
    Redraw the focused window.

Mod4 + m
    Maximize client.

Mod4 + k
    Minimize client.

Mod4 + f
    Set client fullscreen.

Mod4 + minus
    Kill focused client.

Mod4 + t
    Set client on-top.


Navigation

Mod4 + e
    Focus next client.

Mod4 + n
    Focus previous client.

Mod4 + y
    Focus first urgent client.

Mod4 + Up
    View previous tag.

Mod4 + Down
    View next tag.

Mod4 + 1-9
    Switch to tag 1-9.

Mod4 + Control + e
    Focus next screen.

Mod4 + Control + n
    Focus previous screen.

Mod4 + Escape
    Focus previously selected tag set.


Layout modification

Mod4 + PgDn
    Switch client with next client.

Mod4 + PgUp
    Switch client with previous client.

Mod4 + o
    Send client to next screen.

Mod4 + l
    Decrease master width factor by 5%.

Mod4 + u
    Increase master width factor by 5%.

Mod4 + <
    Increase number of master windows by 1.

Mod4 + >
    Decrease number of master windows by 1.

Mod4 + Control + l
    Increase number of columns for non-master windows by 1.

Mod4 + Control + u
    Decrease number of columns for non-master windows by 1.

Mod4 + space
    Switch to next layout.

Mod4 + Shift + space
    Switch to previous layout.

Mod4 + Control + space
    Toggle client floating status.

Mod4 + i
    Swap focused client with master.

Mod4 + Control + 1-9
    Toggle tag view.

Mod4 + Shift + 1-9
    Tag client with tag.

Mod4 + Shift + Control + 1-9
    Toggle tag on client.

Mod4 + Shift + F1-9
    Tag marked clients with tag.

It's awesome!

[bionicroach]

Now that I look at the three Rollermouse products at KeyboardCo, I think the Free 2 is the most interesting for me, since it has no lifter.

Doesn't putting a keyboard onto the lifter make it unstable / wobbly?

The Free 2 does have lifters, but they are removable, which is nice.

The bad thing about the lifters is that the positions they're mounted in on the Free 2 tend not to line up very well with full sized keyboards, so the keyboard does end up being a bit unbalanced and wobbly.  What I do when I need to use the lifters is actually just detach them from the RollerMouse body and line them up properly under the feet of my keyboard.

A tenkeyless board might line up a little better with the Free 2 lifters.  The ideal setup would be something like the Kinesis Freestyle that has two separate halves that could be lined up independently with the RollerMouse.

With the Contoured, I would think you'd definitely just want to remove the lifters.

[jpc]

Doesn't putting a keyboard onto the lifter make it unstable / wobbly?

Not on the Pro 2. The lifters themselves are wide, flat, sturdy, and covered in a non-slip rubber mat. Flat boards do NOT budge.

The lifters work with the Kinesis too, except I had to add a shim under one of the feet. Silly Kinesis, why is even your bottom Contoured?

[Input Nirvana]

Silly Kinesis, why is even your bottom Contoured?

I KNOW!!! It's caused me more challenges than you can imagine on the split project.

[jpc]

UPDATE. Thanks to Debbie Aboud, the very helpful sales executive at Contour Design, who is letting me free-trial both the Pro 2, and the Free 2 at the same time. :biggrin:

The Rollermouse Pro 2 is as good as promised. It places less static stress on your hands than any full-size trackball; it's more agile than a thumb trackball; and it allows you to move the pointer with one hand and click with the other, which is delightful. (It's difficult to hold a trackball steady while clicking buttons with the same hand!)

The default Pro 2 palm rest is not large enough. If you use your index and middle fingers on the roller, as I want to, that will push your palm off its perch and into an awkward posture. Luckily Contour makes a larger palm rest for the Pro and Pro 2, called the Rollerwave. Debbie is sending me a Rollerwave too. Thanks Debbie!

The Contour folks are nice, and the product is excellent. I'm probably just going to buy all of this stuff at the end of the month.

The default Free 2 palm rest is deeper to begin with. It looks like it's designed for index/middle finger use right out of the box.

The Free 2 has some other possible advantages over the Pro 2. It's narrower left-to-right, to work better with laptops and probably compact keyboards. Its keyboard lifter is totally detachable (I think... judging from pictures) so that will play nicer with the Kinesis. I'd rather not need to shim my Kinesis just because an unnecessary keyboard lifter made it wobble.

The Free 2 should be here next week some time. Look forward to two reviews... COMING SOON!

[Input Nirvana]

Lucky bastard.

Watch your back.

[Björn]

The raisers on Free2 are completely removable.

[Input Nirvana]

Got my hands on a Free 2. The scroll wheel is a substantial change, its non-ratcheting, counter-balanced, wide and low (rather than narrow and high), and clicks easier. The Free 2 is lower profile than the Free. There is a nifty cursor speed control on the top of the unit (adjustable for about 5 or 6 levels). I need to set up the Free and Free 2 this weekend and compare them side-by-side. If I can find a flat keyboard I can show the height difference.

I spoke with Contoured Designs yesterday, and they would love to have the free-spinning HyperScroll, but patents prevent that from happening. Now I'm very motivated to re-build the main pcb with the HyperScroll wheel in it instead. I have all the parts.

[Björn]

The Free2 has cursor speed control in these steps: 800, 1000, 1200, 1400 and 1600 "dpi"   =    5 levels. A row of five white-grey LEDs will indicate the chosen setting briefly.

The rollerbar height has been significantly reduced from the Free to the Free2.
This has enabled a design where the rollerbar is better integrated, in alignment, with the height of the wrist rests.

[jpc]

The review of the Pro 2 and Free 2 is up, with some new pictures.

[Input Nirvana]

Pollermouse!  

[jpc]

Hahaha... fixed.
Yeah, GH was having some kind of outage yesterday, I had to make several attempts to post the review... and retyped the title into the little form very quickly each time. That ended well.

[Input Nirvana]

Nice comparison, very helpful.
 
I have a Free 2 now, and I'm surprised about the scroll wheel difference you mention on the 2 units. I did not try the Pro 2, there was not one on display. Now I gotta look inside and see what's going on...

[sordna]

Which model would work best with a Kinesis Advantage ?

[Input Nirvana]

Depends on your setup.

If you are strictly on a desk, you can take a Free or Free2 and raise it with a piece of whatever. Not so with the Pro2 since it has lifters, right jpc?

This is why I'm going to cut one down to 10" to integrate with the Advantage, the curve of the case is a challenge.

[sordna]

I have my Kinesis on a compact keyboard tray that includes a wristwrest (which I can remove of course) since I like the bottom row of the keyboard lifted. What would you recommend based on my setup?

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 24482[/ATTACH]

[jpc]

I'm surprised about the scroll wheel difference you mention on the 2 units.

The big difference I noticed was in the feel of the main roller -- not the scroll wheel.

The roller on the Pro 2 has less friction and less wobble than the one on the Free 2, and it may be a bit heavier. It's not just the same roller in two different packages.

[jpc]

@sordna: You can use a Pro 2 with a Kinesis.

The Pro 2 has a nonremovable lip about 1.5" wide and 1/4" high that extends under the front edge of the keyboard.  (Dimensions are approximate, I don't have the rollermouse with me now to measure...) In the case of the Kinesis, that lifts the front of the Kinesis about 1/4" which is the right direction for you. And you need to shim it to prevent wobble.

As input nirvana says, that lip also prevents you from lifting the Pro 2 without lifting the Kinesis. I haven't found this to be a problem.

[Input Nirvana]

I have my Kinesis on a compact keyboard tray that includes a wristwrest (which I can remove of course) since I like the bottom row of the keyboard lifted. What would you recommend based on my setup?

(Attachment Link) 24482[/ATTACH]

You need to try it out, that is the only/best way. You can borrow my different ones. We can arrange via PM.

[jpc]

sordna, have you considered pads for where your palms sit on the Kinesis?

Kinesis will sell pads for $12 a pair. The pads give you a little more lift and they are comfortable. They are nothing special -- you could also cut rectangles out of a spare mouse pad and attach them to the roof of the Kinesis for the same effect.

[Input Nirvana]

I'm looking at McMaster-Carr for alternative foam (memory foam  blah blah) that might be better than the Kinesis foam. Something that lasts a little better.

[sordna]

I've used the Kinesis pads, don't care much for them. Besides, I'm not looking to lift my hands in relationship to the key wells, I want to give the entire keyboard a negative tilt (lower the number row, raise the thumb clusters). Try it, I find it more comfortable, especially since I keep the keyboard tray as low to my lap as possible.

[Input Nirvana]

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 24487[/ATTACH]

-RollerMouse Free
-RollerMouse Free2
-RoleerMouse Station with tranny Advantage
-RollerWave2 wrist rest

One of the big issues is that due to the curve of the Kinesis, there is a BIG drop to get to the rollerbar

[sordna]

Another issue I see, is they assume keyboards are long and asymmetric (not the case for a Kinesis). They should come up with a symmetric rollermouse mini or something...

[Input Nirvana]

Another issue I see, is they assume keyboards are long and asymmetric (not the case for a Kinesis). They should come up with a symmetric rollermouse mini or something...

EXACTLY MY MOD!!!!

Contour Designs wants to see how it works out in about a month.

Raising the Kinesis with the lip will provide the negative tilt (good) but I don't know about the distance to the roller. It needs to be as little as possible. I like the Pro2 lip, but I'm not sure how well it works with the Kinesis. Jpc you like it?

[jpc]

[
One of the big issues is that due to the curve of the Kinesis, there is a BIG drop to get to the rollerbar

It's an issue if you want to use your thumb on the roller bar while typing, that doesn't work with a Kinesis.

If you use index and middle fingers on the roller bar, I've found the drop isn't a problem.

[Input Nirvana]

It's an issue if you want to use your thumb on the roller bar while typing, that doesn't work with a Kinesis.

If you use index and middle fingers on the roller bar, I've found the drop isn't a problem.

Exactly.
But I LIKE using my thumb on the rollerbar, that's why I'm about to hack a Rollermouse. Thumb usage is the absolute best I've found on this unit.

[woody]

From jpc's review:

The roller on the Free 2 requires more effort to manipulate than the Pro 2 roller. There's noticeable friction. It's not as easy or as fun as the Pro 2

Bummer. Why would they use two different rollers. Pro2's roller bar is covered, wonder whether dust might build up in Free2.

On the Free 2, the Double Click button sends two left click button codes, so it cannot be remapped (eg. as middle button in Unix.) The copy and paste buttons send CTRL-C and CTRL-V codes

Another bummer. Three buttons that will go unused, and have to be avoided with care.

Awaiting Free2 soon. I just couldn't accept Pro's big footprint, but now that I read the review, I am not sure I made the right decision.

[Input Nirvana]

I don't think it will be as bad as you might think, the roller should not be sluggish. The button programmability might still be able to be changed with 3rd party software.

But it will make a beautiful door stop

[woody]

I will know soon enough. Then I could pour all my hatred on you and jpc for luring me into rolling mice. Should next version be RockingMouse?

But it will make a beautiful door stop

How about an expensive wristrest?

[woody]

Got the Free 2. Roller bar is smooth, so we can safely assume that jpc's sample had some troubles.

Pros: the roller is smooth and has nice momentum, so pointing with it is easy and comfortable. Clicking the bar at the lowest setting works good.

Cons: three unusable buttons, as already reported - hardwired Copy, Paste and Double Click. That's a major flaw for a product oriented at prosumers.

Neutral: scrollwheel is OK.


At this point I am not very sure about the button layout and I feel some tension in my hands, but could be well from trying something new.

[Input Nirvana]

Welcome to the club!

Rollerbar=PIMP. Unquestionably.
Hardwired buttons in this day and age=Do not understand and personally not a fan. I want a workaround.
Scrollwheel=Much improved over the 'standard' ratcheting, narrow wheel. My only thought might me a HyperScroll wheel in its place. What are your thoughts?
Button layout=Don't know, hopefully it's because it's new and there is some muscle stress.

[woody]

Hardwired buttons in this day and age=Do not understand and personally not a fan. I want a workaround.

I need workaround, too. Or it will be one expensive wristrest.

Scrollwheel=Much improved over the 'standard' ratcheting, narrow wheel. My only thought might me a HyperScroll wheel in its place. What are your thoughts?

Pretty good and smooth scrollwheel, and clicking it is also good. Don't know what HyperScroll is, before the Slimblade I used to scroll with arrow keys.

Button layout=Don't know, hopefully it's because it's new and there is some muscle stress.

I will report on that later. For now I have to look down quite often to find what I'm looking for.

To minimize hand movement I'd preferred to have the left click right under the roller, so just a thumb action is enough while the four other finger stay on the keyboard (at home row position, or whatever).

I will give it a week to see how well I could adapt. Still, I'm mad at Contour for there are only three usable buttons - Left click, Right click and Scrollwheel click.

[Input Nirvana]

You can click the rollerbar. As a left click. I use that 90% of the time. Your unit will do that.

Look up Hyperscroll on the inter-toobs. It's a neat Logitech innovation.

[jpc]

I'm mad at Contour for there are only three usable buttons - Left click, Right click and Scrollwheel click.

 
For me the scroll wheel click is semi-usable. It's easy to scroll by accident, esp. without click-stops in the scroll wheel. It works, but it takes work.

The cardinal sin of pointing devices is having one surface control multiple functions. (begin rant) Apple is excommunicated. It started with the mouse that you can't rest your hand on without accidentally clicking, because the button is on the bottom. Wow, that's... innovative. They outdid themselves with the Tragic Magic Trackpad with two buttons on the bottom of a device whose top surface is entirely touch sensitive. I cringe...

Keep your discreet buttons. Give me discrete buttons.

(end grouchy old man rant)

[Input Nirvana]

I have used the click on the scroll wheel for auto-scroll only since there are other click options. I assume the new wheel will work better for that (I'm not actually using the RMFree2 at this point)

I like the Magic Track Pad, but have not pressed it to "click". GESTURES BABY!

[woody]

You can click the rollerbar. As a left click. I use that 90% of the time. Your unit will do that.

Yup, it works ok for me even at the lowest force setting. It's not very ergonomic for hitting small targets though as pushing down may move the pointer.
What I tried to say is that the Left/Right click buttons should be closer to the bar, to allow for thumb action on them. The goal of RM is minimizing hand movement and staying on the keyboard, no?

Look up Hyperscroll on the inter-toobs. It's a neat Logitech innovation.

Just looked it up. For me the Free 2 scrollwheel is good enough, and Slimblade scroll is ftw. There's PgUp/PgDn for hopping in bigger amounts.

[woody]

For me the scroll wheel click is semi-usable. It's easy to scroll by accident, esp. without click-stops in the scroll wheel. It works, but it takes work.

For a somewhat rarely used 4th button I can accept it being funkier. But where's the 3rd button on Free2 that I frequently need? ...

Keep your discreet buttons. Give me discrete buttons.

True.

[Björn]

To get around the hard-wired functions, especially in Free2   -   if you have a PC:

Posted today on european (UK) Contour Ergo web pages     www.contour-design.co.uk    >   support   > drivers  
A Microsoft certified Contour 32 and 64 bit Windows driver (7, Vista, XP)       for:    Free2, Pro2,     also should work for "old" Pro and Contour/Perfit Mouse

The driver has a limited feature set, (if you have seen the old "advanced" driver) but it will allow swapping around the clicks, such as putting left and right clicks near the rollerbar on 4th and 5th button.

(A later release in a couple of weeks is to include some support for original RM-Free.)


And yes, I work for Contour in Europe :-) I hope you appreciate the heads up.
(And I am not coding the stuff, myself, just to be clear.)

[woody]

Hello, Björn, nice to hear from Contour staff.

But the problem is we have PCs ... and no Windows(tm). That's why our rant for having hardwired (unusable) functions on a device which must've simply supplied plain buttons that anybody could then customize to their own heart. Isn't the MCU in Free2 flash-based, i.e. upgradeable?

EDIT: If the Pro2/Free2 have the same guts, then Pro2's firmware on Free2 is good enough.

[Input Nirvana]

Just to add, info on Pro2 verses Free2 is helpful and how it relates to Macs as well.

Thank you!

[TheAmpersand]

Hmm, a free trial offer is highly enticing. I main get fatigue/RSI in my right wrist from using a mouse at work, and I've been weighing my options. I was considering getting a trackball since the cost of entry is lower. How would you say this compares? Personal preference?

[jpc]

Hmm, a free trial offer is highly enticing. I main get fatigue/RSI in my right wrist from using a mouse at work, and I've been weighing my options. I was considering getting a trackball since the cost of entry is lower. How would you say this compares? Personal preference?

I use the Kensington Expert Mouse, Logitech m570, and Logitech Trackman Wheel (predecessor to m570) regularly and prefer all of those to any standard mouse.

Ergonomically, the rollermouse is most similar to a trackpad. You might consider that on a budget.

So...

Rollermouse: pricey, very ergonomic, precise cursor control
Trackpads: cheap, very ergonomic, less precise cursor control
Index finger trackball: medium price, somewhat ergonomic (you need a tall palm rest to avoid dorsiflection), precise cursor control
Thumb trackball: cheap, very ergonomic, less precise cursor control

This omits the legendary and discontinued MS Trackball Explorer, which is an index-finger trackball that appears to be uncompromisingly ergonomic. I don't have experience with this class of trackball.

It's very difficult to guess what you'll like before you get it and try it. Just start acquiring lots of stuff :biggrin:

[sordna]

Good breakdown jpg, I agree 100%
Wow, new (old stock) MS Trackball Explorer are like $400-500 bucks! Never tried it... The Logitech Trackman Marble is a pretty good and cheap index/middle finger trackball.

[Björn]

Hello, Björn, nice to hear from Contour staff.

But the problem is we have PCs ... and no Windows(tm). That's why our rant for having hardwired (unusable) functions on a device which must've simply supplied plain buttons that anybody could then customize to their own heart. Isn't the MCU in Free2 flash-based, i.e. upgradeable?

EDIT: If the Pro2/Free2 have the same guts, then Pro2's firmware on Free2 is good enough.

Hi,

I understand completely your views and they are of course relevant.
It's basically a matter of "potential market/demand", costs for enabling multiple product versions and facing the historical decisions already made.

To answer from another end, our main customers are business users on a Wintel platform (but Mac is growing) who work with computing intensive tasks, such as administration/accounting/finance/secretary/customer service etc.

Most users get a RollerMouse because they have very real problems and pains.
On average these users are not computers experts or geeks.
Many of these customer environments have policies that restrict installation of drivers.
Some users do not even know how to change the cursor speed in the normal control panel.
Traditionally, also the kind of resellers who have sold products such as RollerMouse, are not very computer savvy.

Those factors have made us inclined to prepare the product with preferred features, so it can be used "out-of-the-box".
So we provide our "double-click" button and the "Copy" and "Paste" functions without forcing the need for a driver.

Yes, the Pro2 has the fallback option, so that you can get back to standard 5-button mouse mode.
On the Free2, current edition, the "normal mode" wasn't implemented, to reduce features that some users didn't understand.
(We've had a fair share of users complaining that their double click was gone, when in fact it was just that someone had flipped the switch that makes Pro2 go to normal mode.)

So, we make choices and it's tricky to cater for all wishes.

Our aim is to expand and be able to better adress more and different specific needs and wants, by different products,
and we are grateful for all and any input that better help explain this.

[Björn]

Just to add, info on Pro2 verses Free2 is helpful and how it relates to Macs as well.

Thank you!

Some notes:


MAC

Out-of-box, the Free2 4th and 5th button do not work on a Mac.
But there is a Mac driver to adress this.

On the Pro2, you can flip the switch to make the buttons behave like a normal 5-button mouse.

But actually, on a Mac, nowadays, the biggest practical "difference" is that Apple have implemented so many multi-finger gestures that require Apple input devices to work.


General differences Pro2 and Free2

Pro2 builds on same form factor as first RollerMouse from 2001.
Free2 was created in late 2009 and has benefited from available thinner sensor components.


Free2 is considerably flatter. With the wrist rest removed, it has very small foot print.
The fully open bar on Free2 allows much greater variation of hand/arm posture and angle from body.
Free2 is adapted to the trend of shrinking keyboard sizes.   >   Pro2 still popular among those with 104-key "biggies"

If the keyboard has a very thick front edge, Free2 may actually feel as if it is too thin.
This can me "solved" by allowing a small gap between keyboard and Free2.
(I am typing this on a Topre Realforce with a Free2, and i prefer a 1/4 inch gap to allow my fingertips better move the rollerbar as I wish.

In Scandinavia, Pro2 is deployed in a variery of ways, such as by the addition of our our own extended wrist rest, RollerWave2,
or by separate underarm supports (from third party suppliers) that provide a nice zone to rest your underarms on when you work standing up.
(Electrical tables almost standard now in offices.)


And yes, it was on this forum that I got the longing for a Topre ;-)
Bought from KeyboardCo, of course.

[woody]

@Björn: Thanks for this alternate view. I also fully understand the reasoning behind. The only problem is, if Free2 is targeted to some niche Wintel copy/pasters, that still doesn't make people like me "geeks" (btw, I have sometimes severe wrist aches, so I have enough motivation to look for better input devices). Even the Double Click button I cannot understand - it's much simpler to tap the left button twice by muscle memory and without utilizing additional brain resources, than finding the special button and tapping it once. Then the Copy/Paste buttons - still faster and more convenient to do from keyboard, IMHO.

And even if we ignore the Double Click and Copy/Paste buttons as if they weren't present and the scroll wheel is counted as normal (albeit not that easy to press) button, I and probably many other people still need at least one more. For example, if I try to browse this forum using the Free2, I have to regularly move hand back to the keyboard to press keys to move step backward in history. And that simple convenience in browsing is not really geeky, plus it partially destroys the benefits of RollerMouse and the expected less hand motion.

While I am impressed by the feeling and the precision of the roller, the overall use of Free2 for me is so-so - still too much hand movement just because 3 out of 6 buttons are dead.