Mini Keyboard with Trackpoint

[watduzhkstand4]

@ lowpoly
I would like to have the shiny all black one with red/blue switches please thanks =D

[rdjack21]

@ lowpoly
I would like to have the shiny all black one with red/blue switches please thanks =D

What I would really love is Topre switches in this board even though I know that would drive the cost up.

lowploy,

Checked your site out again today noticed that you have put a few more renderings up. Just out of curiosity what are you using to render the boards?

[watduzhkstand4]

What I would really love is Topre switches in this board even though I know that would drive the cost up.

lowploy,

Checked your site out again today noticed that you have put a few more renderings up. Just out of curiosity what are you using to render the boards?

lol I don't know about this one. I don't want two boards with similar form factor to use the same switches =D

[wellington1869]

I still want to eat the beige/brown one.  Looks delicious.

Come on lowpo, lets get this thing onto that taiwanese assembly line already

[rdjack21]

lol I don't know about this one. I don't want two boards with similar form factor to use the same switches =D

It's the programmability of it that I'm after. Don't really like cherry blues and the browns feel flat after typing on a Topre. Don't know about the reds though I've not tried those. But if they have the high pitch click of the blues I will not like it.

[keyb_gr]

It's the programmability of it that I'm after. Don't really like cherry blues and the browns feel flat after typing on a Topre. Don't know about the reds though I've not tried those. But if they have the high pitch click of the blues I will not like it.

Reds should be like non-tactile browns, or light blacks... i.e. light linear switches.

[rdjack21]

Don't think I would like those either. Oh well when he gets it to market I guess I will just have to settle on browns.

[wellington1869]

Don't think I would like those either. Oh well when he gets it to market I guess I will just have to settle on browns.

i wont like those either; a linear brown will be even lighter than the browns. thats why i'm 'settling' for blues on this board i guess.

I can understand why lowpo pretty much has to go with cherries though, at least initially. Not much choice; they're the only ones being mass marketed right now. XM's arent great and have a much smaller market; BS would have to be outsourced to unicomp? Topres would be frightfully expensive; And all the other switches are dead.

[rdjack21]

If he could keep the price of a Topre version in the range of a HHKB Pro then I would not have an issue paying for it. And Topre does have a history of doing OEM boards. But I'm sure he could not do a Topre at first but I still like the idea.

The problem I have is the more I type on The Topre's the more I like them. I plugged my brown Filco in the other day and I have to say it was a disappointment it just felt flat and had zero character compared to my HHKB Pro.

[itlnstln]

You know, for as much as this might cost, he may want to look into having them done by Topre since they will already be expensive.  That, and he might make just as much money selling the design to someone like Topre, and just let them deal with manufacturing and selling the 'boards, although, I do think it would compete with the HHKB unless they use Lowpoly's design as the HHKB Pro 3.
 
Then again, Cherry blues won the last poll.

[wellington1869]

That, and he might make just as much money selling the design to someone like Topre, and just let them deal with manufacturing and selling the 'boards.

for that matter, why not also license it out to unicomp too, if they'll take it? Since they seem too lazy to come up with their own 'mini' design...

[watduzhkstand4]

I say we should just go with the Cherry blues then -.-

[bigpook]

i wont like those either; a linear brown will be even lighter than the browns. thats why i'm 'settling' for blues on this board i guess.

I can understand why lowpo pretty much has to go with cherries though, at least initially. Not much choice; they're the only ones being mass marketed right now. XM's arent great and have a much smaller market; BS would have to be outsourced to unicomp? Topres would be frightfully expensive; And all the other switches are dead.

You know, those new fukka switches are pretty decent. I wouldn't mind seeing a lowpoly keyboard sporting them. Otherwise, I would probably go with the blue cherry.

[wellington1869]

are fukka's basically xm's?  
someone has to give them a medal for the name.

[watduzhkstand4]

lmfao I say someone needs so make audio clip for the fukkas =D

[lowpoly]

What I would really love is Topre switches in this board even though I know that would drive the cost up.

lowploy,

Checked your site out again today noticed that you have put a few more renderings up. Just out of curiosity what are you using to render the boards?

Topre switches are not very likely for various reasons. For ex. the controller will not work with capacitive switches, IMO.

The 3Ds were built in Rhino and Wings, rendered in Maya.

I still want to eat the beige/brown one.  Looks delicious.

Come on lowpo, lets get this thing onto that taiwanese assembly line already

The common assembly line won't work with the configurator. Have to order parts and assemble them at the distributors. If I'd just decide on a few variants it might be possible. But the configurator is important for me. Production on demand via the internet. It's the future. Have a look at the preview dummy.

Anyway, I don't think this is an issue for him unless I stand corrected. The Cherries are available and reliable.

Yepp. And they don't need a mounting plate. There's just no space for a regular mounting plate. It would require tests to see if a compromised mouting plate would work with Alps. With BS similar problems arise, for ex. it would be difficult to lead the membrane traces to the controller. It would require a sharp bend.

I have an idea for a switch with a smooth tactile curve. The first test worked quite well. So that would be a (remote) possibility.

[rdjack21]

Topre switches are not very likely for various reasons. For ex. the controller will not work with capacitive switches, IMO.

I guess I need to think about this some more. I've been thinking of putting my own controller in a Topre board but not even sure where to find one to begin with. But I have noticed that the controller in the HHKB has few more chips on it but I thought those were related to the USB Hub not so much dealing with the switches. I guess I need to take apart a Realforce and see what they are using for a controller and maybe go from their.

The 3Ds were built in Rhino and Wings, rendered in Maya.

The reason I asked is I'm also thinking of writing a keyboard layout tool and was thinking I would use OpenGL for rendering the keys and such.

[bigpook]

I just got the filco tenless with the fukka switches. Its a noticeable improvement over the original XM's.


When I have some time I will post pictures of the switch internals. I still have some of the white XM switches so it will be interesting to see the difference.

I won't say much else about the fukka's. Let me run it for a week or so, then  I can be more objective.
First impressions are postive though.

[wellington1869]

I am also positive about the fukka's. But, first I thought I liked them more than the real Alps, but now they do feel a bit more heavy.

how do they compare to the real simplifieds?

[bigpook]

that why I want to run it for a couple of weeks or so. I really like the black alps out of the Dell AT101.
The fukka's are a bit heavier and louder. I will have a better idea in a week or so. So far so good though. The XM's didn't take long before they were heavy and balky. Well see.

[wellington1869]

I just want to say lowpo's preview site -*blew*.*my*.*mind*-

I'm speechless.

Lowpo's going to be rich - i'd bet money on that.

This is the future of keyboards.  If you dont believe me, look at the preview site.

[rdjack21]

I haven't taken a look yet. I keep meaning to but just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm spending way to much time digging up Topre boards right now.

[wellington1869]

You have to login like three times, btw.

The only thing I can think of to improve lowpo's creation is for him to eventually be able to offer different kinds of switches (thus making the switch option just as configurable as all the other options (color, layout, etc) that he has.)

That can come later though. But would be awesome to have switch choice beyond cherries. Maybe after an initial success with cherries other switch companies will be interested in taking it on.

[wellington1869]

I have an idea for a switch with a smooth tactile curve. The first test worked quite well. So that would be a (remote) possibility.

btw lowpo, this is intriguing. A smooth tactile curve? You mean same resistance level thruout the downstroke? Sounds interesting, potentially a 'meaty' feel. Which would be good.

[AndrewZorn]

not that i read all 27 pages but i am confused.  are these for sale or will they be for sale, or do people WANT them to be for sale?

[itlnstln]

not that i read all 27 pages but i am confused. are these for sale or will they be for sale, or do people WANT them to be for sale?

What you see is Lowpoly's prototype.  He is trying to work with OEMs to get them produced.
 
Bottom line: It's not for sale, but he's working on it.

[rdjack21]

And don't forget he is also trying to get financing as well. Once he gets that though the rest should just fall in place.

[clickclack]

I DIG IT!!!
So I checked out the preview site and not only was I impressed, but I was really excited! I suggest checking it out!

So I have a few design questions/comments for ya lowpoly...

- The back plate of the keyboard reminds me of a few IBM keyboards that I have at the moment.They had this tapered bevel/chamfer that raised to the back (similar triangle wedge to what you have under there). I mention this because not only did it look good, but it felt solid (considering how tiny and thin it was) and left a nice gap so things like cords could be tucked a bit better.

-Do you push down (just off the edge of the space bar) on those mouse tabs/buttons or do you push in? Or does it even mater because its similar to a lever?
I absolutely love that design, as I just looked down at my hands and that is where they are!!! What an easy and intuitive movement!

-Do you have a problem with or would you imagine there being a problem with the edges of the keys exposed like that? (no protective border to the sides of the keyboard)
I have used and messed with hundreds of keyboards, and in light use (a slight bang or snag) keys do pop off or could break the stem.
I mention this because it looks like one could easily snag the outside edges of the keys.

Sorry for the long post, but this is so very interesting

[lowpoly]

Lowpo's going to be rich - i'd bet money on that.

LOL, experience tells me it's not going to happen.

You have to login like three times, btw.

It's because of the URL redirect I use. Or because I changed the user/password. Or... I looked into it and gave up. Sorry for the inconvenience. Better click on 'remember password'.

btw lowpo, this is intriguing. A smooth tactile curve? You mean same resistance level thruout the downstroke? Sounds interesting, potentially a 'meaty' feel. Which would be good.

No, not same resistance. A Cherry brown for ex. has a short tactile peak. A rubber dome has a longer peak. More like that. The switch will be kind of expensive though. If it works at all.

The back plate of the keyboard reminds me of a few IBM keyboards that I have at the moment.They had this tapered bevel/chamfer that raised to the back (similar triangle wedge to what you have under there). I mention this because not only did it look good, but it felt solid (considering how tiny and thin it was) and left a nice gap so things like cords could be tucked a bit better.

It's mainly a design issue for me. Makes the case look much smaller from various angles. Also, makes the case smaller. :-)

Do you push down (just off the edge of the space bar) on those mouse tabs/buttons or do you push in? Or does it even mater because its similar to a lever?
I absolutely love that design, as I just looked down at my hands and that is where they are!!! What an easy and intuitive movement!

You push them in. Currently the rotation axis is at the lower edge.

Do you have a problem with or would you imagine there being a problem with the edges of the keys exposed like that? (no protective border to the sides of the keyboard)
I have used and messed with hundreds of keyboards, and in light use (a slight bang or snag) keys do pop off or could break the stem.
I mention this because it looks like one could easily snag the outside edges of the keys.

The keys are not as protected as with a regular bezel. With normal use it shouldn't be a problem. I already dropped it from considerable height and the keys didn't get damaged. Of course this depends on the crash angle.

I can imagine that throwing it in a bag with lots of other stuff may result in scratches or a popped key. But you shouldn't do that anyway. Maybe a soft bag would be good as standard equipment.

And you shouldn't lift the whole 'board on one or two keys. Maybe this will require a sticker on the bottom.

[ed_]

What about the keys getting snagged; for example, reaching across your desk while wearing long sleeves?

[lowpoly]

What about the keys getting snagged; for example, reaching across your desk while wearing long sleeves?

I just tried it (fast!). Nothing happens. The keyboard slides away, that's it.

[JBert]

The keys are not as protected as with a regular bezel. With normal use it shouldn't be a problem. I already dropped it from considerable height and the keys didn't get damaged. Of course this depends on the crash angle.

I can imagine that throwing it in a bag with lots of other stuff may result in scratches or a popped key. But you shouldn't do that anyway. Maybe a soft bag would be good as standard equipment.

And you shouldn't lift the whole 'board on one or two keys. Maybe this will require a sticker on the bottom.

Maybe you need to design a complementary "keyboard lid" which closes the top of the keyboard. Of course, you'd still need a way to keep it closed...

[AndrewZorn]

Maybe you need to design a complementary "keyboard lid" which closes the top of the keyboard. Of course, you'd still need a way to keep it closed...

this is what i thought, if nothing else, a cheap accessory like a lens cover: nothing fancy, no locking mechanism, just a tight fitting soft plastic top... enough to make it okay to store and transport.

EDIT also, aside from Topre switches, this keyboard improves on everything i want from the HHKB.  how soon are we talking about here?  i would really hate for this thing to start production right after i buy HHKB.

[lowpoly]

Maybe you need to design a complementary "keyboard lid" which closes the top of the keyboard. Of course, you'd still need a way to keep it closed...

This would be indeed nice. Considering the "low" quantities, every additional plastic part will be expensive, requiring construction, a mold, etc.

I want to have some accessories though, I have a long list already. :-)

EDIT also, aside from Topre switches, this keyboard improves on everything i want from the HHKB.  how soon are we talking about here?  i would really hate for this thing to start production right after i buy HHKB.

At least a year from now. I'll probably need at least two more months for the preview site. And funding alone can take a year. Then final construction, then the required tests (EMV, packing, etc.). Then production.

[wellington1869]

Lowpo, I hope you're planning on making it true NKRO -- both, fast typists and gamers, will thank you endlessly for it, as we increasingly realize how valuable that feature really is for those two classes of keyboard users. :-)

[lowpoly]

I plan a diode for every switch. Not sure about ps/2. Only the combo ps/2 makes sense (with that passive usb/ps2 adapter) but I imagine it will vastly complicate controller programming.

[eugenius]

ETA and price?  Convince me not to get a Topre Brown Tenkeyless.

[lowpoly]

ETA and price?

At least a year from now. No idea about pricing yet. There are too many unknown factors.

Convince me not to get a Topre Brown Tenkeyless.

That's easy, it doesn't exist. :-)

I'm almost through with the english version of the preview site. A single nasty bug is still on my list.

[lowpoly]

No, I moved the project to the root of the new domain. The old directory is gone. All of you who requested a passwort before will get an update mail, probably early next week.

Password protection will have to stay until the languages are complete.

The bug is some JavaScript crap when loading the rotate views. Looks like the onload event fires too early resulting in the image shown when it still contains the last keyboard viewed. I have a vague idea how to work around this.

[fuzzybyte]

aren't the mouse buttons in the way of thumbs for space bar? would it not be better to place them more closer together in the center?

[lowpoly]

aren't the mouse buttons in the way of thumbs for space bar? would it not be better to place them more closer together in the center?

Not sure if I understand this correctly. You can press the spacebar and the mouse buttons will not interfere. They will even work with the spacebar pressed down. If I put my hands on the homerow with my wrists straight then the thumbs will point at the mouse buttons.

[lowpoly]

UPDATE

The preview site programming is finished, content only in english so far. PM me for URL and user/pw.

The configurator is working.

Only one login necessary with the correct URL. :-)

You can switch to other languages but the content will be english and most likely dated. So make sure you switch back to english after having a look.

PM to those who already have a password is on its way.

Please do not post the name(s) yet. Thanks.

[Rajagra]

Please do not post the name(s) yet. Thanks.

(Cough!)

[lowpoly]

Edit: :-)

I didn't change anything since the designs. xxxx-board is more like a label. minixxxx is one model under that label. Not saying there will be more models but that was the idea.

[o2dazone]

God, the preview site just made me so much more excited about the board.

[Hakhu]

Excellent update.

I love playing with the configurator. ;-)

One item for the wishlist:

What keeps me from buying a current Cherry board is, that all keys have the same color. The old boards with duo-tone (function keys are grey) looks so much better. And it's not just me, two of my collegues are hunting ebay for duo-tone Cherrys.

So it would be great if the configuration allowed for different color function keys (tab, caps, shift, ctrl, alt, fn, enter, backspace).

[vyshane]

Been playing with the configurator. So many variations and they all look awesome. Good luck finding the right combination indeed! I might have to buy a few!

Just a thought, maybe you could allow us to register our interest. Maybe a form to submit an email address. I would like to be notified when the boards make it to the market.

[lowpoly]

Thanks for the comments.

What keeps me from buying a current Cherry board is, that all keys have the same color. The old boards with duo-tone (function keys are grey) looks so much better. And it's not just me, two of my collegues are hunting ebay for duo-tone Cherrys.

I'll keep it in mind. There are a lot of color combinations already, several colors times several languages and different physical layouts. Probably not even all of those will make it into the production configurator.

Just a thought, maybe you could allow us to register our interest.

You can register for the newsletter, link is at the bottom of the page. I thought about putting an image link somewhere on the home page, maybe I should do that.

[timw4mail]

I have a few comments:

I really like the idea

Is there a possibility of a non-staggered key layout?

And the configurator does not work in Opera.

[lowpoly]

I have a few comments:

I really like the idea

Is there a possibility of a non-staggered key layout?

And the configurator does not work in Opera.

Thanks. :-)

A non-staggered board would require even more custom keycaps. So this is probably not going to happen.

As for Opera, my ambition to deliver cross-browser compatible programming collapsed after it worked in IE8. Just checked the site in Opera 10. Looks like Opera finally renders pixel-sized fonts correctly. I'll look into the JavaScript issues. Thanks for bringing this up.