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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: sony on Thu, 04 March 2021, 20:23:36

Title: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Keyboards (SIMP KIT)
Post by: sony on Thu, 04 March 2021, 20:23:36
Sony
Interference
Mount
Plateless

Kit




Inspired by Geon's F1-8X plateless kit, I wanted to make a plateless kit for existing keyboards... so here we have

SIMP KIT

The idea is to sandwich the pcb in bottom of the case using 3d printed pieces.
These were printed out of TPU.



Advantages of Plateless:

Advantages of SIMP:



CAD Design
[attachimg=4]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oepp34lb3l869nc/SIMP_GENERIC.STL?dl=0


Images in board.
More
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]


How to design:
More
If the bottom of your case has a tub, i.e. the PCB can rest in the bottom of the case, you can SIMP kit it (probably).

You will need to measure the "gap" and the "depth".

The gap is the distance between the PCB edge and the inside edge of the case. Shown here:
(https://i.imgur.com/LIt8DV4.png)
The depth is the distance from the bottom of the PCB to the bottom of the case. Shown here:
(https://i.imgur.com/dGS9AjM.png)



This is an annotated image of the SIMP kit insert with the relevant measurements by Nevin.
(https://i.imgur.com/3ATiPqj.png)

I've found that the distance from the PCB to the top of the case does not matter much since there often isn't a ledge to hold the piece in.




Build Videos and Streams

More
jintae_: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/962103334?t=1h7m0s
tonykjin: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/978179226
lightningkeyboards: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1039789231




You can see more of my build on my instagram which I am shamelessly plugging https://instagram.com/sonykbd (https://instagram.com/sonykbd)
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: Chippy on Thu, 04 March 2021, 20:32:44
Looks great man. May try it in the future.
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: Rayndalf on Thu, 04 March 2021, 20:45:59
Free me from plate tyranny comrade sony!

This is a good idea, many cases fit so tightly on the PCB that the plate is totally unnecessary. Especially for those ISO boys who keep getting left out. Integrated plates where a mistake.
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: Lysol_ on Thu, 04 March 2021, 21:17:22
interesting idea, i may try this out for some of my boards when I get my printer soon.
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: nevin on Fri, 05 March 2021, 07:59:50
very cool. wonderful idea. :thumb: how does it change the sound? for the better i'm sure. ....ditching the (probably metal) plate and adding a "rubbery" TPU type bumper to space the pcb correctly, more or less making it closer to gasket or other dampened mounting method.

will also make changing parts of the switch (springs, stems, lube, etc...) so much easier not being in a plate.

if anybody is unfamiliar with TPU it is a very flexible (not brittle) printer filament. TPU is very big in drone parts/accessories like camera mounts, motor bumpers, canopies & aesthetic prints that won't break when they fall out of the sky.
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: sony on Fri, 05 March 2021, 10:37:34
very cool. wonderful idea. :thumb: how does it change the sound? for the better i'm sure. ....ditching the (probably metal) plate and adding a "rubbery" TPU type bumper to space the pcb correctly, more or less making it closer to gasket or other dampened mounting method.

will also make changing parts of the switch (springs, stems, lube, etc...) so much easier not being in a plate.

if anybody is unfamiliar with TPU it is a very flexible (not brittle) printer filament. TPU is very big in drone parts/accessories like camera mounts, motor bumpers, canopies & aesthetic prints that won't break when they fall out of the sky.

If anyone is curious about sound, the GEONWORKS F1-8X can provide a point of reference between plateless and alu/poly builds. I am also too lazy to record a comparison and I did not use the same switches across builds.

The sound is a lot deeper than when I was using an aluminum plate.
I think its similar to a lot of builds with polycarbonate plates.
In terms of feels, I think that it is similar to polycarbonate as well, this system does allow for more customization, and you can change the feel by adding or removing these spacers.

I will be sending these parts to some other PerryWorks Jinsoul owners to get their opinion.



I only posted this so I can call it simp kit and give other people something to try since the cost of printing these is pennies really.
It does require measurements of your own board and PCB so each board/pcb combination will have unique spacers for the top and bottom, which is why I did not release a CAD file, however I was able to draft this with no CAD experience in a few minutes so I think that this is possible for anyone.
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: nevin on Fri, 05 March 2021, 11:12:29
Quote
I only posted this so I can call it simp kit and give other people something to try since the cost of printing these is pennies really.
It does require measurements of your own board and PCB so each board/pcb combination will have unique spacers for the top and bottom, which is why I did not release a CAD file, however I was able to draft this with no CAD experience in a few minutes so I think that this is possible for anyone.

absolutely, still a super idea (especially on the material). and even on cheap calipers, you can get the depth with the thin part that comes out the tail of the calipers (depth gauge), so would be super easy to get measurement of how high off bottom of case.
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: powwu on Sat, 13 March 2021, 16:23:45
I simp for simp kit
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 13 March 2021, 20:29:28
It's all fun and games until you start getting ghost presses.
Be sure to put something in the bottom to keep pins from shorting against the case bottom.
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: sony on Tue, 16 March 2021, 14:24:39
It's all fun and games until you start getting ghost presses.
Be sure to put something in the bottom to keep pins from shorting against the case bottom.

I just had to use more of the inserts to avoid bottoming out the PCB. The good thing about this kit is that you can customize the amount of flex and areas of flex with the placement of the inserts.
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: sony on Thu, 25 March 2021, 00:01:30
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/962103334?t=1h7m0s

Jintae_ building PerryWorks Jinsoul plateless with SIMP kit
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: pr0ximity on Wed, 07 April 2021, 06:47:19
Just caught the VOD of jintae’s build, this is super cool. Would love to mess with this a bit this summer when I have more free time.

Any advice on where to get them printed?

If you wouldn’t mind, releasing the CAD as specifically for the Jinsoul + hiney combo would be a helpful starting point to tweak.
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: sony on Wed, 07 April 2021, 13:58:15
Any advice on where to get them printed?

If you wouldn’t mind, releasing the CAD as specifically for the Jinsoul + hiney combo would be a helpful starting point to tweak.

I print them myself.
Here is a generic STL file for one of the inserts. https://www.dropbox.com/s/oepp34lb3l869nc/SIMP_GENERIC.STL?dl=0

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/978179226
Here is another build by tonykjin (formerly ramenchamp_)
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: nevin on Wed, 07 April 2021, 14:14:10
Just caught the VOD of jintae’s build, this is super cool. Would love to mess with this a bit this summer when I have more free time.

Any advice on where to get them printed?

If you wouldn’t mind, releasing the CAD as specifically for the Jinsoul + hiney combo would be a helpful starting point to tweak.

each insert would have to be customized to the combination you are working with.
- gap between pcb & edge of case
- gap between bottom of pcb and bottom of case
- gap between top of pcb and top of case/bezel
- thickness of pcb
(you'll have to use tolerances of your material & printer) these were designed to be printed in TPU material (a soft pliable filament)
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: sony on Wed, 07 April 2021, 14:33:22
each insert would have to be customized to the combination you are working with.
- gap between pcb & edge of case
- gap between bottom of pcb and bottom of case
- gap between top of pcb and top of case/bezel
- thickness of pcb
(you'll have to use tolerances of your material & printer) these were designed to be printed in TPU material (a soft pliable filament)
(Attachment Link)

This is a great picture. The top distance doesn't actually matter much (text in magenta).
It just has to be less than the pcb to top case distance.
Some boards don't have a lip that the piece can compress against.
If the board doesn't have this lip, the whole assembly can kinda be lifted, but this doesn't affect usage until you have to take caps off, but the pcb assembly will still remain in the board.
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: nevin on Wed, 07 April 2021, 15:14:23
@sony sent you a PM as well
Title: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Custom Keyboards
Post by: pr0ximity on Wed, 07 April 2021, 17:12:47
each insert would have to be customized to the combination you are working with.
- gap between pcb & edge of case
- gap between bottom of pcb and bottom of case
- gap between top of pcb and top of case/bezel
- thickness of pcb
(you'll have to use tolerances of your material & printer) these were designed to be printed in TPU material (a soft pliable filament)
(Attachment Link)

This is a great picture. The top distance doesn't actually matter much (text in magenta).
It just has to be less than the pcb to top case distance.
Some boards don't have a lip that the piece can compress against.
If the board doesn't have this lip, the whole assembly can kinda be lifted, but this doesn't affect usage until you have to take caps off, but the pcb assembly will still remain in the board.
Totally makes sense, thanks for the details (and the diagram, nevin).

Now all I need is some calipers and extra PCBs

EDIT: And to figure out which board to start with...
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Keyboards (SIMP KIT)
Post by: sony on Sun, 30 May 2021, 22:16:25
Another Build by LightningXI for Xeno.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1039789231
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Keyboards (SIMP KIT)
Post by: LightningXI on Wed, 02 June 2021, 11:22:05
Another Build by LightningXI for Xeno.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1039789231

Uploaded on youtube now:

Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Keyboards (SIMP KIT)
Post by: rythven on Thu, 22 July 2021, 15:51:22
So you have to adjust the file according to that specific case? Like, you had to measure the Xeno before printing and sending out that batch?
I'm asking cause I don't have a printing machine and I generally need more of a step by step for this sort of thing.
Since I play around with layouts, great to see a solution to go plateless. Thanks!
Title: Re: Plateless Retrofit Kits for Keyboards (SIMP KIT)
Post by: nevin on Thu, 22 July 2021, 21:31:12
Yeah, you really just need 3 measurements. See post#14.
Once it's figured for a case you can duplicate it. But if measurements have not been taken yet, you'll need to measure.

@Sony, can you edit your first post with ones you have measurements for?