How's my theoretical layout

[AfroGundam]

I'm relatively new to the keyboard hobby, but nevertheless I'm taking my first crack at making a new layout, and hopefully seeing this to production.

I like TKL, but I've always wanted something a bit more compact, even though it doesn't save that much space. 75% keebs also get on my nerves with the short right shift. I might be the only person in the world that hates it but it is what it is. I recently got a macropad with a rotary encoder and I've finally seen the light. Also nav cluster because reasons.



Top right area is reserved for the rotary encoder. Design wise I can see something resembling the Microsoft Surface Dial.

simple, lightly beveled edges

Already got comments on how some people dont like the nav cluster touching the 2x2 cluster so that might change.

Anyways, what do you guys think? Do I just go into blender and mock it up or what? Also, where do I go from here to actually hit IC?

[Leslieann]

I started on a board similar to this for cad.

My advice... Test whatever encoder you plan on using externally first.
I started testing parts and no sooner did I try using it I realized that I didn't like the encoder (in this case an encoder and then a trackball), it wasn't as useful or nice as I thought it would be and it would be even less useful being hard mounted to the keyboard. Later I built a board with an lcd, what I learned from it was integrating stuff into a keyboard is meh.

You're going to make a lot of compromises to make this work and then you're stuck with it, it's a lot of time/money/effort on this keyboard, what happens if your needs change or you dislike it or you simply get board (it happens a lot in this hobby)? Need special caps, have fun changing them later. Want a different switch, unless you built a pcb with hot swaps, have fun. If you hand wired, you will pretty much have to rewire the entire board if you swap switches, while easier than desoldering a pcb, putting it back together is like rebuilding the keyboard all over again. So unless this is you "end-game god tier board", which doesn't exist, something new could come out tomorrow and make you want to change it, you could get all this done only to find you hate it. Your keyboard has one job, don't go adding "stuff" in hopes of making it better.

Build a secondary housing or dock, put your dial in that, maybe add a spare usb port, sd reader, whatever,  just don't trying making a keyboard do everything. It's too specialized. Anything your hands touch should be no compromise this is for repetition, repairability, replaceability.

[Maledicted]

The caps are standard though, aren't they? Looks like it is pretty much a 68 key in the vein of the Miya Pro, just with a rotary encoder and f keys stuffed in.

I don't understand people who need the arrow keys in their own totally secluded space. Do they say the same thing about using WASD for games? It is essentially the same thing. It is just a matter of muscle memory.

[yui]

I don't understand people who need the arrow keys in their own totally secluded space. Do they say the same thing about using WASD for games? It is essentially the same thing. It is just a matter of muscle memory.

i think it is more a thing of why and when you need them, in games your fingers stay on wasd all the time so finding it is not hard, but when you type your fingers are not above wasd so having the arrow separated makes finding it easier and so faster, it is the same reason why i prefer winkeyless layouts, makes alt and ctrl faster to reach, and i put the winkey on a layer because i almost never use it. having gaps makes locating things on either side a lot easier.

and back on subject, nice layout, i do not like my arrow keys to encroach on the bottom row but that is personal taste.

[Leslieann]

The caps are standard though, aren't they? Looks like it is pretty much a 68 key in the vein of the Miya Pro, just with a rotary encoder and f keys stuffed in.

I don't understand people who need the arrow keys in their own totally secluded space. Do they say the same thing about using WASD for games? It is essentially the same thing. It is just a matter of muscle memory.

There is generally a gap over the arrows, so the caps will be shifted down a row, not an issue for some layouts and cap sets since some 65 and 75% do have them there, but usually you only get half the ones needed since this is a two column, not a one column. So depending on what keys are put there it may or may not match up, this can even be an issue on 65 and 75% depending on what is mapped there (usually if you use home end instead of pgup/pgdn like I do). It's not terrible but some people are anal about the caps matching function and what keys they want where.

As for the muscle memory and such,
Almost a year later I still occasionally have trouble finding up arrow on a 65% compared to a TKL, any gap there to separate things would help. all it takes is being a little off and you can catch the wrong key. There's no missing on a TKL.  As for WASD, you typically start/home fingers on either wasd or F, that's not the case for arrows, you have to lift and move with little to no tactile feedback.

[Maledicted]

The caps are standard though, aren't they? Looks like it is pretty much a 68 key in the vein of the Miya Pro, just with a rotary encoder and f keys stuffed in.

I don't understand people who need the arrow keys in their own totally secluded space. Do they say the same thing about using WASD for games? It is essentially the same thing. It is just a matter of muscle memory.

There is generally a gap over the arrows, so the caps will be shifted down a row, not an issue for some layouts and cap sets since some 65 and 75% do have them there, but usually you only get half the ones needed since this is a two column, not a one column. So depending on what keys are put there it may or may not match up, this can even be an issue on 65 and 75% depending on what is mapped there (usually if you use home end instead of pgup/pgdn like I do). It's not terrible but some people are anal about the caps matching function and what keys they want where.

As for the muscle memory and such,
Almost a year later I still occasionally have trouble finding up arrow on a 65% compared to a TKL, any gap there to separate things would help. all it takes is being a little off and you can catch the wrong key. There's no missing on a TKL.  As for WASD, you typically start/home fingers on either wasd or F, that's not the case for arrows, you have to lift and move with little to no tactile feedback.

I suppose, if somebody is that worried by a difference of only one row on keys that are almost never used by a lot of people anyway. I have a set of zinc caps on a K65 and literally just stuffed whatever fit where I needed to.

I use a TG3 "cop" keyboard under the covers whenever I'm browsing in bed. I haven't had any trouble with the arrow keys. The furthest right key on the bottom row is the right arrow, so you can just plop your right ring finger on that key and the others follow suit. I also have really long fingers though too, so I think I tend to use the trackpad from that position as well, with my thumb. This wouldn't apply for weird layouts where there's anything to the right of the arrow keys, but I never had any trouble with navigating with the XT or AT layouts either. The stepped modifiers (and layout) in the alphanumeric cluster of XT boards were always a lot more of a challenge for me. I put dabs of hot glue on the F and J keys on the F XT and AT, since there are no bumps. I didn't bother with the numb pad/nav cluster.

I swap between a lot of random/weird/archaic layouts frequently. Maybe that helps somehow? I literally just swapped back from an AT layout board to a standard full size. I think this is the first time I have used one of those in at least a year or two ... unless switching to my K70 for an occasional game counts. I used to have two different random mechanicals set up in separate buildings at work, then I would have 1-2 random mechanicals besides my K70 on my desk at home, and the TG3 for bed/HTPC duty. The TG3 and K70 are the only constants, the rest could be some random board I like from any period of home computing.

[quadibloc]

Already got comments on how some people dont like the nav cluster touching the 2x2 cluster so that might change.

While the 2x2 cluster could certainly be moved up one position, I have a more serious issue. Compared to an ordinary tenkeyless, it's missing some keys. However, so is a 75% keyboard, which uses the Fn key to shift some keys, and that is the type for which this is intended as a replacement.
So perhaps the real issue is that this keyboard is only a little smaller than a tenkeyless, so unlike the 75%, it doesn't really provide a large enough benefit in compactness to justify reducing the layout.
Of course, you could add all four "missing" keys if you didn't move the 2x2 cluster up, simply by omitting the rotary controller you've planned, but maybe that is a potential big benefit of your layout.

[MIGHTY CHICKEN]

Check out the mammoth75x by wuque studio

[Volny]

The top-right of the keyboard for your encoder seems reasonable enough on paper, but will it be the best fit for how you're going to use it? Maybe it will be, but make sure you consider it before you build.

If you're going to be using it a lot, with your left hand while your right operates the mouse, then it might feel off balance to have both hands scrunched over to the right all the time. Also, think of the keys you'll be using most frequently in conjunction with the wheel. If you'll be frequently switching between the wheel and TAB or ESC or CTRL-Z or something like that, then consider moving the wheel to the left of the board. Perhaps near the ESC key somewhere.