Author Topic: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case) - Group Buy Live!  (Read 68839 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rjuju

  • Posts: 4
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #100 on: Mon, 29 January 2018, 12:31:29 »
Im sticking around,

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


Offline sairex

  • Posts: 55
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #101 on: Mon, 29 January 2018, 16:23:32 »
I'm interested!
   

Offline bbrotha

  • Posts: 67
  • Location: Spain
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #102 on: Mon, 29 January 2018, 17:03:40 »
I’m very interested!
Norbaforce 87U 45g  -- HHKB Type S Blanks-- Kira Keyboard -- M65-A -- Novatouch

Offline poolside

  • Posts: 790
  • Location: On the deck
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #103 on: Mon, 29 January 2018, 17:51:43 »
The 2nd prototype will focus on refining everything (such as typing feel, brass weight, breakout board fitment, USB hole, etc).

Don't let the underside be a blank slate; it has to shine  :'(

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #104 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 12:10:22 »
I’m very interested!

Im sticking around,

I'm interested!

Thanks! :-*

The 2nd prototype will focus on refining everything (such as typing feel, brass weight, breakout board fitment, USB hole, etc).

Don't let the underside be a blank slate; it has to shine  :'(

We'll see :'(

I think it's already close to 2kg, so room for expansion. Will see cost wise.



Going to prioritize this over other samples/productions at the minute due to the tighter time constraints, which is only a good thing for this. Hopefully it arrives in time, if not, then no problem as it will be shortly after.

Offline Reluctanse

  • Posts: 1
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #105 on: Tue, 30 January 2018, 15:38:00 »
Watching closely, keep us posted!!

Offline phinix

  • Posts: 2296
  • Location: Haggis Land
  • On a diet.. again.. don't ask...
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 06 February 2018, 06:27:23 »
Cool, I'll be watching this closely.

I'm a topre lover, so this looks interesting.

I wish old Realforce was mx compatible, so seeing mods like this warms my heart:)
9100 | 3070 | 8TB SSD + 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
Realforce 87u55 | CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks | NCR-80 87g Gateron Oil Kings | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: Retro Petscii, 7bit Round6 'Symbiosis', Filco, Carbon Bone Cherry: GMK Laser, OG double shot caps, CRP APL GSA: Retro High-light HSA: Hyperfuse

::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #107 on: Mon, 19 February 2018, 23:19:23 »
Update time!

Bad news :'(

There isn't a plug-in way to program the PCB. We thought it would be possible, but since the matrix & controller aren't separate (like they are on the HHKB, which is why Hasu can make it work), there isn't a pleasant way to connect.

This does lead to some good news though...

We'll be attempting to do a fully custom PCB. It'll take a while, but ultimately it's what everyone wants.

I think for now, V1 will be a USB-C adapter (like the Norbatouch), and the case. We can go hard with V2 ;D

Group buy time frame wise for V1 is after X60 R, so expect some news when I get the prototype case, and then when X60 R finishes.

Offline Puddsy

  • nice
  • * Elated Elder
  • Posts: 12275
  • Location: RSTLN E
  • "Do you shovel to survive, or survive to shovel?"
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #108 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 02:07:55 »
We'll be attempting to do a fully custom PCB. It'll take a while, but ultimately it's what everyone wants.

interested to see how this turns out

past attempts not so good, so would be nice to see this taken to fruition
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos, after I came back from a break | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV | "Puddsy is the Puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline Wetherbee

  • Posts: 210
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #109 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 03:00:25 »
I think for now, V1 will be a USB-C adapter (like the Norbatouch), and the case. We can go hard with V2 ;D

I know I've discussed this with you at some length, but just to emphasize my excitement - I'm absolutely down for V1!!! ESPECIALLY if it is plate-compatible with the Realforce 87U and 86U PCBs. I'd also pick up a few extra plates to replace some of my rusted ones (yes, Realforce plates rust after only a few years - my dream would be a nice PVD-coated bronze mirror or colorful anodized aluminum plate option with the same tight tolerances and thickness of the original). Since the XRF will be the first Realforce case to include a custom plate, you will also get a lot of interest in your plates from buyers of the Norbaforce and TGR-Zooey as well, assuming the plate will maintain the stock dimensions for compatible mounting. I suspect that, for this and other reasons, the plate by itself will already be a popular product even for users who just want to upgrade their stock Realforce. Throw in the awesomeness of the XRF design and you will have an absolutely killer groupbuy - potential to be the groupbuy of the year which is saying a lot since 2018 is turning out to be insane for this hobby.

Plate cutouts/options for MX stabilizers would also solve the only remaining issue with stem-swapping to MX. After extensive testing with JTK, Novatouch, Adapter-X, Plum87, and Realforce RGB MX slider swaps, I've found that the Realforce RGB stabs are the best solution for stabilizing MX keys on Topre, but that requires cut-outs in the plate for the stabs to attach to. Cherry plate-mount stabs interfere with Topre housings (the part under the plate) and they were designed to work with a different plate thickness than the Realforce. Costar stabs should have the same issue but may be more compatible (indeed, the Plum87 clone uses what appears to be plate-mounted costar stabs but I suspect it isn't that easy to port this design to the Realforce nor is it as functional or quiet as the under-plate RGB stabs designed by Topre). Novatouch stem swaps/housing swaps also work well for some, but GMK keys will slam into the housings on the Enter/Shift/Backspace keys causing a plastic-on-plastic clacking sound, although this can be fixed by filing/shaving down the Novatouch housing (or just using a regular Realforce housing and drilling holes in it, ugly buy effective). SA keys are even worse with the Novatouch - they don't hit the housing like GMK but some of the unstabalized larger keys can completely pop off just with regular typing because they are only attached on one of their three stems and the fit tolerances aren't always tight. I've had to use cling wrap/saran wrap on the sliders to keep SA keys seated on the right shift, for example. Similar issues have been posted on Geekhack and deskthority with SA keys. MX stabilizers would solve all of these issues.

The only challenge with MX stab support is that you would need to include a 7u (86U) and/or 6u (87U) custom stabilizer wire with the plate, as the stock Realforce RGB spacebar wire is 6.25u wide which isn't compatible with either the 87U or 86U PCB. If given the option, the 86U + 7u wire would be my preference for proper Tsangan support and SA set compatibility (not to mention winkeyless), but the 87U + 6u wire would work with most popular GMK sets now that they come with 6u center-stem spacebars. Ideally both options would be available on one plate but that will depend on the plate design and if the various options interfere with each other or not (options being one or more of either 86U Topre, 86U MX, 87U Topre, and/or 87U MX). The tricky design part is that MX stabs all work with with 1u Topre housings, but users who will not be using MX but who stick with Topre or HiPro keys will still need support for the larger 2u housings on the Backspace, Enter, and Shift keys of both 86U and 87U (the odd 1.5u housing on the 86U Caps Lock can just be easily replaced with a 1u housing as it accomplishes nothing). The design challenge is to see if all of this can be done with a universal plate, a modular plate, or with two or more different plate options. I have faith though that a solution is workable, though there is some trickiness (87U has holes for LEDs and a badly designed left control housing, both issues which are not present on the 86U). I also haven't even mentioned (on purpose) the 89U/91U JIS or 88U ISO layouts which are much less popular but which likely have a small but vocal following. I believe that 99% of Geekhack users would be satisfied with 86U/87U coverage. There will always be that one weeb with a Nissho keyset who will be vocal about supporting the JIS layout and some viking from Norway who threatens to burn down your house if you don't support ISO.

So far I haven't found the need to reprogram any keys on the Realforce, so I'm fine for the V1 to not be programmable, but I understand that there are many who like Dvorak/Colemak or other unique layouts on a TKL and they will eventually want it. The V2 with a custom PCB would of course require the ability to custom program it and will be very interesting but it sounds like more R&D will be needed, as many have tried and failed on this route but I'm sure some brilliant PCB designer could figure it out.

I think that your plan is fantastic. I fully endorse going down the V1 route with a later V2 as a stretch effort. They have the potential to be very different products, as the V2 would give you complete freedom to do things people have long felt were impossible (HHKB case, for example). I also like that the XRF will benefit from many lessons learned on the earlier Noxary releases and the opportunity to do some custom anodes and cerakoting can really differentiate the product. For me, though, the opportunity to get the plate right is the biggest selling point and I'm hoping we'll be able to pick up extra plates for all those Realforce users out there who have issues with rusting or issues with converting to MX in a way that is truly satisfying. Even a die-hard MX aficionado will tell you that the best MX tactile switch will never compare to the tactility of BKE Topre. We just need to bridge that last gap that is the plate and the stabilized key support for MX compatibility so folks can use their custom keysets without compromising. It would also be awesome if the plate was available in PVD (if brass) or in various anodes (if aluminum) to enable custom a e s t h e t i c s. The challenge there is getting the tolerances perfect so that the Realforce slider housings are tight-fitting to the plate. Too thin and users complain of a "rattly" and wobbly feeling like the stock Novatouch. Too thick and housings won't attach/sit properly.

Anyways, keep up the amazing work. Despite my enthusiasm for the more technical aspects of the design and compatibility, the form factor and overall design of the XRF case itself is truly beautiful. This is a great time to be a Topre fan. We've been waiting a very, very long time for custom groupbuys to show Topre some love. Lets make 2018 the year that Topre fans rejoice.
« Last Edit: Tue, 20 February 2018, 04:46:48 by Wetherbee »

Offline Wetherbee

  • Posts: 210
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #110 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 05:00:30 »
My only other comment with regards to the case is to suggest adopting the V2.1 design language from the Noxary 280 for the bezels, corners, edge fillet, and cutout to make them part of the same family and generation of design. It would be amazing to be able to point to a 280 and an XRF side-by-side and have people not be able to tell them apart despite them having completely different plate and switch architecture inside (well, except the V1 XRF would obviously have a much larger forehead to accomodate the Realforce PCB, whereas the V2 could be indistinguishable and theoretically use the same case).

Similarly, there is also the opportunity to include an XRF Numpad add-on option to host the Realforce Numpad (the Realforce Numpad PCB has pads for both 21U and 23U support), using the same design language as the Noxary 220 numpad.
« Last Edit: Tue, 20 February 2018, 05:06:59 by Wetherbee »

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #111 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 10:28:44 »
This isn't dead :p

First of all, massive thank you to Wetherbee for 1) motivating me, and 2) sending me two boards to reverse engineer and make things for.

Here is the result of way too much work:





This is a plate that uses RGB housings & stabilizers, and uses the 86u PCB & case.

Some changes are needed, but functionally, it's great. This enables so much more, so I'm very happy it's turned out as expected first time.

Offline dgneo

  • Supervillain
  • * Curator
  • Posts: 2182
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #112 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 10:36:20 »
nice

Offline dallman5

  • Posts: 428
  • Location: DC, USA
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #113 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 10:50:43 »
This is very promising, I'm really interested to hear how it feels! 

I assume this is going to require custom bent stab wires for the spacebar? I know the 86u uses a 6u wire but I have no experience with the RF RGB.
LF: OG Cherry APL (lasered), Artisans

Current collection:
More
Norbatouch (Galaxy Blue) | Mira SE (Lunar Grey, WKL) | HHKB Pro 1 (KB300BN) | Noxary X60 (Grey, HHKB) | KBDFans 5 Degree (Silver) | AEK64 (Grey) | Norbaforce (Tactical Black, WKL)) | Realforce 86U (White) | TGR 910 RE (Polycarbonate) | LZ-SQ (Black) | LZ-CLS (Grey, WKL) | Duck Orion v1 (Silver, WK)) | Nissho KB106DE | HHKB Pro 1 (KB300B) | LZ CLS-S (Blue, Poker) | Realforce 87U 10th Anniversary) | Realforce 104UK | TGR Alice (Grey on Pink) | Singa (Blue, WKL)  | Quantrik QXP (Blue Grey, WKL) | LZ-GH v2 (Black, WK) | KMAC Happy (Red, Poker)) | IBM Model M SSK (APL) | TGR 910 SE (Pink on Blue) | GSKT-00 (Silver, Poker) | OTD Koala (Silver, WKL) | Realforce R2 PFU Edition (Ivory) | IBM 3279 Beamspring (APL) | TGR Tris (Blue) | LZ-GH v2 (Blue, WKL)) | TGR Jane v2 (Blue-grey, WKL) | LZ-MP (Shine Grey, WKL)  | TGR x Singa Unikorn (Purple) | Justsystems x Realforce 108UG) | IBM Model F Unsaver (APL) | TGR Jane V2 CE (Multicolor, WKL) | Realforce 87U (Blank Black) | Lin Montage (Light Blue, WKL) | GSKT-00 AEK R2 (Grey, HHKB) | Leopold FC660C (Blank Black) | Duck Viper v3 (Grey on Black) | Rama Works M6-C RWxRW | LZ-GH v1 (Black, WKL) | Gok 7v (Grey) | biso x beaming Kei (SS, HHKB) | zacheadams x bisoromi little z | Matrix Noah (Silver/Grey, WKL) | Lin Whale (Pink, WKL) | TGR Alice (Polycarbonate) | Rama Kara (Noct) | Lin Whale75 (Burgundy, F13) | Realforce 89 (Ivory) | Hand Engineering Haus (Bluegrey) | Haytco CAKE60_R1 (Pantone 4167C) | LZ-XE (Grey, WKL) | Noxary X60 V2 (Grey, WK) | Daji Ochocuatro (Grey, WKL) | HHKB Hybird Type-S 25th Anniversary (Snow) | LZ-REs (Grey, WKL) | Matrix 8xv 3.0 (Blue-Black/Deep Grey, WKL) | Realforce 23UB | Biso RS60 (Black, WK) | TGR x MXF Koala (Grey/Black, WKL)

Italics = Incoming, Black = Gone

Offline clasicks

  • Formerly KeyboardUser4
  • Posts: 785
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #114 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 10:58:04 »
thats what i call progress!

sidenote: you say its using rgb housings, does this render that specific plate design useless for 87u rf housings? or are the interchangeable

Offline clorex

  • Posts: 24
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #115 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:07:04 »
This isn't dead

First of all, massive thank you to Wetherbee for 1) motivating me, and 2) sending me two boards to reverse engineer and make things for.

Here is the result of way too much work:

Show Image


Show Image


This is a plate that uses RGB housings & stabilizers, and uses the 86u PCB & case.

Some changes are needed, but functionally, it's great. This enables so much more, so I'm very happy it's turned out as expected first time.
What's the benefit of using RF RGB slider housings as opposed to the regular opaque black RF ones?


After extensive testing with JTK, Novatouch, Adapter-X, Plum87, and Realforce RGB MX slider swaps
Off topic: which MX sliders did you think were better -- NVT or RGB? Or was there no difference?

(P.S. Not talking about stabs in either question.)

Offline p_blaze

  • Posts: 449
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #116 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:09:52 »
This isn't dead :p

First of all, massive thank you to Wetherbee for 1) motivating me, and 2) sending me two boards to reverse engineer and make things for.

Here is the result of way too much work:

Show Image


Show Image


This is a plate that uses RGB housings & stabilizers, and uses the 86u PCB & case.

Some changes are needed, but functionally, it's great. This enables so much more, so I'm very happy it's turned out as expected first time.
Wow. All your boards need to have bezels like this to show off the quality

Offline Puddsy

  • nice
  • * Elated Elder
  • Posts: 12275
  • Location: RSTLN E
  • "Do you shovel to survive, or survive to shovel?"
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #117 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:45:46 »
This isn't dead :p

First of all, massive thank you to Wetherbee for 1) motivating me, and 2) sending me two boards to reverse engineer and make things for.

Here is the result of way too much work:

Show Image


Show Image


This is a plate that uses RGB housings & stabilizers, and uses the 86u PCB & case.

Some changes are needed, but functionally, it's great. This enables so much more, so I'm very happy it's turned out as expected first time.

looks great
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos, after I came back from a break | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV | "Puddsy is the Puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline bthezebra

  • Posts: 464
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #118 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 14:56:59 »
Those mounting points look like they were a pain to achieve properly, great work!

Offline moh18one

  • Posts: 112
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #119 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 18:25:43 »
Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

Let me touch this beautyyyyy!!!

Offline nmur

  • ಠ_ಠ
  • Posts: 1539
  • Location: Sydney
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #120 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 19:36:43 »
This isn't dead :p

First of all, massive thank you to Wetherbee for 1) motivating me, and 2) sending me two boards to reverse engineer and make things for.

Here is the result of way too much work:

Show Image


Show Image


This is a plate that uses RGB housings & stabilizers, and uses the 86u PCB & case.

Some changes are needed, but functionally, it's great. This enables so much more, so I'm very happy it's turned out as expected first time.

woa

man i need to pickup an 86u just for the pcb

somehow

Offline H3NT4I

  • Posts: 57
  • 気持ちいい
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #121 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 20:55:59 »
Can't wait to see how this turns out. Fantastic work so far.  :thumb:

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #122 on: Mon, 19 March 2018, 21:23:08 »
This is very promising, I'm really interested to hear how it feels! 

I assume this is going to require custom bent stab wires for the spacebar? I know the 86u uses a 6u wire but I have no experience with the RF RGB.

Unfortunately the manufacturer of the plate (they're local) forgot to thread the holes, so currently waiting on some nuts to secure the PCB & plate together, so I'll give typing thoughts after that.

Yes, it's going to require 6u and 7u wires. Since the stabilizer is actually offset, and thinner than usual, they have to be especially manufactured. Currently working on this, but I have to do some hand bent prototypes.

What's the benefit of using RF RGB slider housings as opposed to the regular opaque black RF ones?

After extensive testing with JTK, Novatouch, Adapter-X, Plum87, and Realforce RGB MX slider swaps
Off topic: which MX sliders did you think were better -- NVT or RGB? Or was there no difference?

(P.S. Not talking about stabs in either question.)


The benefit of using RGB housings is because they come with the MX stabilizers. There is no point using (for example) JTK sliders in black housings with RGB stabilizers to achieve MX keysets.

My ideal situation is to only have to harvest ONE board. If you want to use MX keycaps, then the RGB is the one you get; if you want Topre keycaps, then a normal 86/87u will do.

I can't speak for Wetherbee, but I do know that the RGB sliders are extremely smooth. It also goes to my 2nd point of only having to harvest one board. There is also the problem of NVT not being made any more - there is no point making something the only option when it's becoming increasingly rare.

Those mounting points look like they were a pain to achieve properly, great work!

Absolute pain. I did get the top points slightly wrong. I know what to adjust though.

thats what i call progress!

sidenote: you say its using rgb housings, does this render that specific plate design useless for 87u rf housings? or are the interchangeable

Black vs RGB housings aren't the same size, so I'd have to do 2 plates per layout - one for black housings, and one for RGB housings. This would have to happen due to the stabilizer situation anyway.

Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

Let me touch this beautyyyyy!!!

Hopefully this year! Won't stop till I've achieved what I want to.

woa

man i need to pickup an 86u just for the pcb

somehow

Ahhh... Imagine a world where PCBs are custom too :'(



Thanks for the comments & support, it's very motivating even after the thread has been quiet for a month.

I guess my manufacturer never got around to the case prototype because of CNY, which is fine as it needs adjustments with the knowledge I now have, but hopefully can get one in hand soon.

Offline megaforce

  • Posts: 1087
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #123 on: Tue, 20 March 2018, 10:22:17 »
noxary branded crumpets when?
Corsair K63 Wireless | Razer Huntsman Elite
More
Hokusai | Ogre| Yohane | Mc65 | Kaze | RBB
Former: LZ MX | LZ FE | LZ CLS TKL Silver |LZ CLS TKL Gray| LZ St | V.EA | Blackbird | LSV3 | OctagonV2 | Norbatouch | X60 | TX84 | Kyuu | SSK | 268.1| Jane CE | Corsair K95 | X60R | HHKB JP x JS HiPro | 910 CE |Nunu |Nunu FE | Jane V2 CE|Jane V2| RS (TKL)


Offline duynguyenle

  • Posts: 1388
  • Location: UK - Midlands
  • Personal text? What personal text???
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #124 on: Tue, 20 March 2018, 11:20:34 »
Could do Costar stabs like the Royal Kludge boards (Cherry plate-mounted might work too)
| QFR            | Leeku 1800    | Raptor K1      | Dolch Pac

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #125 on: Tue, 20 March 2018, 12:31:39 »
Could do Costar stabs like the Royal Kludge boards (Cherry plate-mounted might work too)

Would rather have to only source parts from one board for ultimate ease :p

Offline Wetherbee

  • Posts: 210
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #126 on: Tue, 20 March 2018, 17:43:17 »
Could do Costar stabs like the Royal Kludge boards (Cherry plate-mounted might work too)

The Topre-designed stabs are much better than Costar.  :thumb:

Offline clasicks

  • Formerly KeyboardUser4
  • Posts: 785
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #127 on: Wed, 21 March 2018, 15:18:47 »
nice

wait, did you finally find an imsto set?


gdi it quoted the wrong ****ing post. im dumb.

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #128 on: Wed, 21 March 2018, 15:45:06 »
nice

wait, did you finally find an imsto set?


gdi it quoted the wrong ****ing post. im dumb.

lol idiot

Offline Wetherbee

  • Posts: 210
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #129 on: Wed, 21 March 2018, 17:54:40 »
Off topic: which MX sliders did you think were better -- NVT or RGB? Or was there no difference?

Best MX slider: RGB

Runner-up: Novatouch

RGB is also readily available in most markets.

Do not try the kbdfans Adapter-X or JTK sliders, you will just throw them away once you notice all of your keys are crooked.

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #130 on: Thu, 22 March 2018, 09:24:51 »






It works ;D

Still don't have a 7u wire, and I forgot the ground so it's jammed into one of the screws, but otherwise it's great. Really different sound profile, feel is a bit different too but would have to try side by side.

Offline clasicks

  • Formerly KeyboardUser4
  • Posts: 785
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #131 on: Thu, 22 March 2018, 10:27:31 »
no more rusting plates!

Offline dgneo

  • Supervillain
  • * Curator
  • Posts: 2182
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #132 on: Thu, 22 March 2018, 10:29:52 »
Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


It works ;D

Still don't have a 7u wire, and I forgot the ground so it's jammed into one of the screws, but otherwise it's great. Really different sound profile, feel is a bit different too but would have to try side by side.

Looks good, now lets see one with proper Topre sliders/caps!

Offline crtexcnndrm99

  • Posts: 341
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
  • *profile image used without permission* ;)
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #133 on: Thu, 22 March 2018, 15:20:29 »
Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


It works ;D

Still don't have a 7u wire, and I forgot the ground so it's jammed into one of the screws, but otherwise it's great. Really different sound profile, feel is a bit different too but would have to try side by side.

Oh yes. Just seeing it with proper caps is very exciting. :D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're a smooth smoothie, you know? ~ Gaear Grimsrud

Offline itsundone

  • Posts: 65
  • Location: ID
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #134 on: Sun, 25 March 2018, 07:52:38 »
I keep my eyes on this project. Hopefully it isnt too expensive.

Offline moh18one

  • Posts: 112
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #135 on: Sun, 25 March 2018, 10:42:57 »
Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


It works ;D

Still don't have a 7u wire, and I forgot the ground so it's jammed into one of the screws, but otherwise it's great. Really different sound profile, feel is a bit different too but would have to try side by side.

<3

Offline dgreekstallion

  • Posts: 215
  • Location: Texas
  • B.S. Fiend
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #136 on: Thu, 05 April 2018, 12:40:52 »
Would love it. Just need one sized to fit my 104.
Recent keyboard fanatic.

Model F-122 convert.

Offline GeneriksGiraffe

  • Posts: 77
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Living the Rubber Life
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #137 on: Sun, 08 April 2018, 17:01:22 »
I think for now, V1 will be a USB-C adapter (like the Norbatouch), and the case. We can go hard with V2 ;D

I know I've discussed this with you at some length, but just to emphasize my excitement - I'm absolutely down for V1!!! ESPECIALLY if it is plate-compatible with the Realforce 87U and 86U PCBs. I'd also pick up a few extra plates to replace some of my rusted ones (yes, Realforce plates rust after only a few years - my dream would be a nice PVD-coated bronze mirror or colorful anodized aluminum plate option with the same tight tolerances and thickness of the original). Since the XRF will be the first Realforce case to include a custom plate, you will also get a lot of interest in your plates from buyers of the Norbaforce and TGR-Zooey as well, assuming the plate will maintain the stock dimensions for compatible mounting. I suspect that, for this and other reasons, the plate by itself will already be a popular product even for users who just want to upgrade their stock Realforce. Throw in the awesomeness of the XRF design and you will have an absolutely killer groupbuy - potential to be the groupbuy of the year which is saying a lot since 2018 is turning out to be insane for this hobby.

Plate cutouts/options for MX stabilizers would also solve the only remaining issue with stem-swapping to MX. After extensive testing with JTK, Novatouch, Adapter-X, Plum87, and Realforce RGB MX slider swaps, I've found that the Realforce RGB stabs are the best solution for stabilizing MX keys on Topre, but that requires cut-outs in the plate for the stabs to attach to. Cherry plate-mount stabs interfere with Topre housings (the part under the plate) and they were designed to work with a different plate thickness than the Realforce. Costar stabs should have the same issue but may be more compatible (indeed, the Plum87 clone uses what appears to be plate-mounted costar stabs but I suspect it isn't that easy to port this design to the Realforce nor is it as functional or quiet as the under-plate RGB stabs designed by Topre). Novatouch stem swaps/housing swaps also work well for some, but GMK keys will slam into the housings on the Enter/Shift/Backspace keys causing a plastic-on-plastic clacking sound, although this can be fixed by filing/shaving down the Novatouch housing (or just using a regular Realforce housing and drilling holes in it, ugly buy effective). SA keys are even worse with the Novatouch - they don't hit the housing like GMK but some of the unstabalized larger keys can completely pop off just with regular typing because they are only attached on one of their three stems and the fit tolerances aren't always tight. I've had to use cling wrap/saran wrap on the sliders to keep SA keys seated on the right shift, for example. Similar issues have been posted on Geekhack and deskthority with SA keys. MX stabilizers would solve all of these issues.

The only challenge with MX stab support is that you would need to include a 7u (86U) and/or 6u (87U) custom stabilizer wire with the plate, as the stock Realforce RGB spacebar wire is 6.25u wide which isn't compatible with either the 87U or 86U PCB. If given the option, the 86U + 7u wire would be my preference for proper Tsangan support and SA set compatibility (not to mention winkeyless), but the 87U + 6u wire would work with most popular GMK sets now that they come with 6u center-stem spacebars. Ideally both options would be available on one plate but that will depend on the plate design and if the various options interfere with each other or not (options being one or more of either 86U Topre, 86U MX, 87U Topre, and/or 87U MX). The tricky design part is that MX stabs all work with with 1u Topre housings, but users who will not be using MX but who stick with Topre or HiPro keys will still need support for the larger 2u housings on the Backspace, Enter, and Shift keys of both 86U and 87U (the odd 1.5u housing on the 86U Caps Lock can just be easily replaced with a 1u housing as it accomplishes nothing). The design challenge is to see if all of this can be done with a universal plate, a modular plate, or with two or more different plate options. I have faith though that a solution is workable, though there is some trickiness (87U has holes for LEDs and a badly designed left control housing, both issues which are not present on the 86U). I also haven't even mentioned (on purpose) the 89U/91U JIS or 88U ISO layouts which are much less popular but which likely have a small but vocal following. I believe that 99% of Geekhack users would be satisfied with 86U/87U coverage. There will always be that one weeb with a Nissho keyset who will be vocal about supporting the JIS layout and some viking from Norway who threatens to burn down your house if you don't support ISO.

So far I haven't found the need to reprogram any keys on the Realforce, so I'm fine for the V1 to not be programmable, but I understand that there are many who like Dvorak/Colemak or other unique layouts on a TKL and they will eventually want it. The V2 with a custom PCB would of course require the ability to custom program it and will be very interesting but it sounds like more R&D will be needed, as many have tried and failed on this route but I'm sure some brilliant PCB designer could figure it out.

I think that your plan is fantastic. I fully endorse going down the V1 route with a later V2 as a stretch effort. They have the potential to be very different products, as the V2 would give you complete freedom to do things people have long felt were impossible (HHKB case, for example). I also like that the XRF will benefit from many lessons learned on the earlier Noxary releases and the opportunity to do some custom anodes and cerakoting can really differentiate the product. For me, though, the opportunity to get the plate right is the biggest selling point and I'm hoping we'll be able to pick up extra plates for all those Realforce users out there who have issues with rusting or issues with converting to MX in a way that is truly satisfying. Even a die-hard MX aficionado will tell you that the best MX tactile switch will never compare to the tactility of BKE Topre. We just need to bridge that last gap that is the plate and the stabilized key support for MX compatibility so folks can use their custom keysets without compromising. It would also be awesome if the plate was available in PVD (if brass) or in various anodes (if aluminum) to enable custom a e s t h e t i c s. The challenge there is getting the tolerances perfect so that the Realforce slider housings are tight-fitting to the plate. Too thin and users complain of a "rattly" and wobbly feeling like the stock Novatouch. Too thick and housings won't attach/sit properly.

Anyways, keep up the amazing work. Despite my enthusiasm for the more technical aspects of the design and compatibility, the form factor and overall design of the XRF case itself is truly beautiful. This is a great time to be a Topre fan. We've been waiting a very, very long time for custom groupbuys to show Topre some love. Lets make 2018 the year that Topre fans rejoice.

Yes yes yes yes and yes. The plate is definitely the biggest selling point for me. I already picked up a Norbaforce but I am considering getting another 87U just for this, and also one or two extra plates for the Norba. I need these plates in my life. <3
SOMEONE PLEASE SELL/TRADE ME AN HHKB PRO 1

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #138 on: Sun, 08 April 2018, 19:35:30 »
Since there was a post here, tiny update:

Been working on the Topre housings themselves, got my first 3D printed prototype but the resolution was too small. I have no spare funds right now, so when I do, I'll be ordering higher resolution prints.

This'll all loop around as I need to understand Topre if I want to do this properly.

I made the adjustments needed with the RF plate, but as with the housings, I have no money, so that can wait too.

So basically, waiting on funding, and then more progress will be made.

Offline le_wraith

  • Posts: 112
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #139 on: Sun, 08 April 2018, 19:39:17 »
Since there was a post here, tiny update:

Been working on the Topre housings themselves, got my first 3D printed prototype but the resolution was too small. I have no spare funds right now, so when I do, I'll be ordering higher resolution prints.

This'll all loop around as I need to understand Topre if I want to do this properly.

I made the adjustments needed with the RF plate, but as with the housings, I have no money, so that can wait too.

So basically, waiting on funding, and then more progress will be made.

Dude you should just say how much funding you need and throw up a gofundme or something. I'm sure people will kick in towards. I would.

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #140 on: Sun, 08 April 2018, 23:29:48 »
Since there was a post here, tiny update:

Been working on the Topre housings themselves, got my first 3D printed prototype but the resolution was too small. I have no spare funds right now, so when I do, I'll be ordering higher resolution prints.

This'll all loop around as I need to understand Topre if I want to do this properly.

I made the adjustments needed with the RF plate, but as with the housings, I have no money, so that can wait too.

So basically, waiting on funding, and then more progress will be made.

Dude you should just say how much funding you need and throw up a gofundme or something. I'm sure people will kick in towards. I would.

Appreciate the thought.

I’m not a fan of that type of platform, I don’t think it’s suitable for developing something. I prefer to take money when I know I’m producing the best I can.

Feel free to join my Discord and provide motivation, it’s going to be a long ride :)

https://discord.gg/N2aNvqN

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #141 on: Mon, 30 April 2018, 06:37:33 »
So some approximate timelines from now...

I want to get 280/220 in group buy, so this is my current goal. I'm expecting to have the samples in a couple weeks, so after that I have no more samples in the queue - which puts this next.

I'll order a sample of the case, which again will take a couple of weeks, so realistically, I can expect to have it early June. I'll see what I need to change on the design, if it's major, another sample will be ordered, but if it's minor then it's pretty much group buy time...

On the PCB side, Rozakiin has started work, and I'm sure we'll get some prototypes ordered fairly soon. The PCB probably won't be available for V1 of XRF, but definitely in V2. It is my ultimate end goal with the RF concept.

So still moving, just slowly :p

Offline nmur

  • ಠ_ಠ
  • Posts: 1539
  • Location: Sydney
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #142 on: Mon, 30 April 2018, 07:21:03 »
So some approximate timelines from now...

I want to get 280/220 in group buy, so this is my current goal. I'm expecting to have the samples in a couple weeks, so after that I have no more samples in the queue - which puts this next.

I'll order a sample of the case, which again will take a couple of weeks, so realistically, I can expect to have it early June. I'll see what I need to change on the design, if it's major, another sample will be ordered, but if it's minor then it's pretty much group buy time...

On the PCB side, Rozakiin has started work, and I'm sure we'll get some prototypes ordered fairly soon. The PCB probably won't be available for V1 of XRF, but definitely in V2. It is my ultimate end goal with the RF concept.

So still moving, just slowly :p

nice

any more info on the PCB? or too early?

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #143 on: Mon, 30 April 2018, 07:28:20 »
nice

any more info on the PCB? or too early?

nothing really to report

got to get the basics down before adding complexity

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #144 on: Thu, 10 May 2018, 21:52:34 »






Chamfer or fillet? :p

By the way, the 1st prototype PCB has been ordered.

I'm finalizing the design on this so it's ready when it's time ;)

Offline Captain Shwah

  • Posts: 91
  • Location: California
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #145 on: Thu, 10 May 2018, 21:55:42 »
I like the fillet, it also feels a bit more in line with the RF spirit.

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #146 on: Mon, 14 May 2018, 10:31:58 »
Going with fillet.

PCB has arrived, currently in testing/programming :p

Since 280/220 samples are on the way, I will be ordering the XRF samples when these two arrive.

Offline hayt

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 906
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #147 on: Mon, 14 May 2018, 10:38:51 »
Going with fillet.

PCB has arrived, currently in testing/programming :p

Since 280/220 samples are on the way, I will be ordering the XRF samples when these two arrive.

Looking forward to seeing the prototypes, keep up the good work!

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5366
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #148 on: Mon, 14 May 2018, 13:50:32 »
Going with fillet.

PCB has arrived, currently in testing/programming :p

Since 280/220 samples are on the way, I will be ordering the XRF samples when these two arrive.

Looking forward to seeing the prototypes, keep up the good work!

Will do :-*

Offline Kerasan

  • Posts: 379
  • Location: Italy
Re: [IC] Noxary XRF (Aluminum Realforce Case)
« Reply #149 on: Mon, 14 May 2018, 15:23:26 »
will the plate be compatible with the black housing of the 86U realforce or only with RGB housing? I apologize if it has already been asked but I lost it

KMK Labs.