Author Topic: Apple M1 CPU  (Read 4551 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13561
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Apple M1 CPU
« on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 11:12:40 »
255649-0

This is pretty exciting.

New architecture, Unified SOC.


When mac stuck with powerPC, back then, general use softwares were immature, and Apple did not have the engineering army it does today.

The M1 should match a  4700H/ 4800H using a bit less power. (if their 2.8x-3.5x performance claims are true)


There's gonna be some code-grinding friction. but again, we have a mature software space now, where general consumer side, there aren't that many workflows which need to be optimized.

Their GPU performance claim would put it around an Nvidia 1050 (non-Ti),  That's acceptable, buhhhhh still not gamer.

It's likely impossible to unseat GPU tech portfolios from AMD/Nvidia,  they'll have to have a discreet version somewhere.

Offline ergonaut

  • Posts: 88
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 11:49:09 »
Technologically, these chips seem very impressive. But since it’s unlikely they will ever be used outside Apple products, they’re also kinda irrelevant for me. Given how locked-down this architecture will be, it’s highly unlikely that you could run Linux on them...

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 5036
  • Location: Koriko
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 12:31:35 »
Apple's cores have been wide and fast for some time now. I wonder how much actual additional engineering they really needed to make this laptop chip's cores compared to their previous generations of iPhone SoCs.
The cores' lineage is from P A Semi, which used to make PowerPC chips before Apple bought the company. That was a long time ago now. The 64-bit ARM instruction set is quite nice, easier to make run fast than x86_64 at the same clock.

These are low-end chips for laptops and the Mac Mini. I think the most interesting question is what the chips for the high-end are going to look like.
It wouldn't be cost-effective to make bigger chips with everything in, so they would have to be either split up into multiple chips with different functions (like a traditional PC) or have a scheme with multiple smaller chips and a fast interconnect somehow (like what AMD is doing with Threadripper/EPYC).
Or ... maybe Apple is planning to ditch the high-end altogether.

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6425
  • comfortably numb
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 12:38:35 »
I was gonna make a snarky remark about it being an Intel chip, but it looks like it's actually made by them?

Technologically, these chips seem very impressive. But since it’s unlikely they will ever be used outside Apple products, they’re also kinda irrelevant for me. Given how locked-down this architecture will be, it’s highly unlikely that you could run Linux on them...

this too. Apple has a long history of not playing well with others.
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 November 2020, 12:40:10 by noisyturtle »

Offline Sup

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1336
  • Doing university was a mistake
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 16:16:56 »
3x faster than the best-selling windows laptop in its class. What Windows laptop lol what are they comparing it to.
Also x86 applications will be emulated and end up being slow. I think ARM is the future when the developers actually port everything over but that will take a long time and some probably will stay on x86.

I first want to see before i end up with a brick. :))
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 November 2020, 16:18:29 by Sup »
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
Coming soon
Rest in peace Billy Herrington(William Glen Harold Herrington) 1969-2018
Rest in peace Byron Daniel 1989-2020

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13561
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 18:09:55 »
3x faster than the best-selling windows laptop in its class. What Windows laptop lol what are they comparing it to.
Also x86 applications will be emulated and end up being slow. I think ARM is the future when the developers actually port everything over but that will take a long time and some probably will stay on x86.

I first want to see before i end up with a brick. :))

Well, from the looks of it bootcamp isn't even supported at the moment, I don't think that's how it'll work.

I think they may be making the argument that there are enough Mac alternative softwares for the majority of use cases.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 23:37:49 »
As I expected this is an Apple lifestyle device, a slick looking office grade computer. It's plenty fast to do most things but don't confuse it with anything like the Macbook Pros of 2015. Those days at Apple are long gone. "Pro" is now a trim badge, like buying an F150 XLT or a Mustang LX. In this case you get a shiny touchbar and bigger battery.



By the way, as mentioned, Boot camp will not work. Windows will work on ARM, but not this,.
Neither do E-GPUs (another strike against pro video, photo and cad rendering).
Neither do many Thunderbolt devices. Apple says most will need a firmware update in order to function. What the heck that refers to I have no idea. I know what firmware is, I just don't know why a device needs special firmware to work on Mac... Unless it's in regards to the T2 chip, and in both cases how's that for some f-ed up vendor lock in?


Most importantly
This is a first gen device. DO NOT BUY ONE. Let some other pleb buy one and let them work out the bugs. Better still, don't buy one at all, or an Intel Mac since those will be outdated soon.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13561
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 08:54:57 »
Photoshop/ Final Cut/ Davinci Resolve

That's basically the entire film and photo workflow. You can do everything in that and you're done.

Then Solidworks/ Autocad / Creo /  That's most of the cad scene.


So, that's the ploy, we've got enough mature software, that if it just works with those,  you're pretty much done. 

As for Serious crunching power client side,  no one actually need that, because all of the industrial softwares are going cloud-powered, so the server farm will do the heavy lifting way faster than any client PC.

Directionally, this is better in most cases.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 12 November 2020, 22:13:05 »
Photoshop isn't ready and don't count on it anytime soon. Oh I'm sure it will happen, it's just a matter of when.
Adobe never does things smart or simple and the last time Adobe fed Photoshop through Rossetta to convert it to Intel Mac it trashed the code so bad they had to re-write it from scratch and it took a year or more.

Solidworks doesn't work on Mac and Fusion is not yet cloud based. Not sure if Fusion 360 will run on it yet or not and even if it does we have no idea how well.
I use a cloud based 3d design tool, it is not all it's cracked up to be. Despite the claims many cloud based web tools aren't actually cloud computed, they download a client to you where it runs then it sends updates back to the server. So? Well any internet disruption, server issue or anything really that disturbs that connection can leave you working for hours without that work being saved. Happened to me a bunch. pretty sure this is how the Fusion 360 web based system works as well.


I'm super skeptical of the performance...
The only numbers being touted have been Geekbench, yes marketing will cherry pick but if this was doing as well in Cinebench you know darn well they would be plastering that everywhere because that big of an improvement would be Threadripper type performance and yet crickets.. Someone also noted their "amazing" 8k editing is done with one specific codec, while this codec usually performs comparably to the more common codecs people use that assumes this cpu performs the same as other cpus and it's far too early to make that assumption.

I'm not against ARM, myself and many others would love a cheap ARM laptop to experiment with or run Linux on. I personally think ARM could be the future but the hype surrounding this cpu is is seriously overblown.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline ergonaut

  • Posts: 88
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 13 November 2020, 06:00:27 »
Is TP4 actually considering buying one of these?

Offline noolana

  • Posts: 0
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 21 December 2021, 18:38:47 »
I remember that Google made a notebook on a Mobile chip as well, and that failed because no programs were built for their architecture. And that was a pity. I thought that Apple would fail with their M1 as well, but they succeeded! Anyway, I was ready for the lack of software because my job is video editing and I use an online tool https://www.fastreel.com/video-maker.html so I don’t care what processor to use. It will work well on both.
« Last Edit: Sat, 01 January 2022, 10:53:19 by noolana »

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 21 December 2021, 19:10:28 »
there is already the m2 cpu so we need to renovate the topic
Pretty much everything said still applies.
Yes you can get more cores/ram/SSD (at massively over inflated prices) but still not upgradable or replaceable. For better or worse it's also an Apple product, that means Apple warranty, support, pricing, repair fees and durability, none of which is as good as Apple fans think.

One thing that has changed is Linux has been ported to it by at least one person and Apple is saying they will help with the project, to what extent though is questionable.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline kahlilnc

  • Posts: 58
  • Location: Tex-Ass
    • KNC Keys LLC
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 21 December 2021, 23:12:54 »
Would one day like to see Apple try at making a gaming laptop or desktop one day. Great for the workplace though.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 22 December 2021, 15:39:01 »
They made a gaming system built on IOS.

This wanders a bit but I hope it explains things.
Remember, if it's a laptop or desktop it's going to use MacOs, MacOs is HORRIBLE to program for compared to Windows and even worse if you want to enable gaming codecs. Microsoft put a LOT of effort into Direct X and Nvidia and AMD into plugins to make programming much easier. It's like programming for IOS or Android, need GPS? Use an already made plugin, need bluetooth, here's another plugin. That sort of thing doesn't exist for Mac and gaming. You either end up using custom programming or open source stuff like OpenGL which all takes far more effort than just using DirectX or IOS/Android plugins. So why not just use IOS stuff? It just doesn't always work as well as people think due to screen resolution and such.  A LOOOT of computing depends on balance or you end up with bottlenecks, building software to run with X requirements and expectations means sabotaging a system with y specs and vice versa. This is why while you can use an RTX 3090 with a 3rd gen Core I3, the Core I3 will actually game faster with something like a GTX 1060 because the 3090 needs so much CPU power just to help load it's buffer that it can drag down the cpu. Yep, you really can actually slow a computer by putting too big of a GPU or vice versa. The same goes for software, most know that Windows is optimized for a minimum amount of ram but many do not realize that adding more has a limit as well. You can keep adding more but the benefits to the OS itself taper off once you exceed the max cache size for Windows which scales based on the amount of ram in the system. Apply this to the ARM cpu... You program the plugins to work on a small screen, ssd and ram and now you want it to work on a big screen with a large ssd and more ram... It's just not going to scale that far without hurting one or the other.


And then then is the hardware side.
The best GPU is useless without supporting drivers, software and manufacturer support and with out that no one's going to program for it, especially when there's no customers for it... Because there's no supporting drivers, software and support. Chicken and egg syndrome. Could Apple develop this stuff? Sure, but how far behind on it are they? Who's going to buy it? It's high risk high investment and there's another big problem for Mac...
 
Mac is only 10% of Apple profits yet consumed something like 40-50% of their development expenses when using Intel (I forget the exact numbers but it was in their financial statement which you can find online) and I was not alone in the past to question why they hadn't sold off the Mac line yet as a result. It used to be they used Mac to drive Iphone sales which drove the app store, today Macs do not drive anything, so trying to justify that development cost was becoming more and more difficult, they were either going to ditch Mac or switch to something else to reduce costs, they chose something else. They aren't going to chase an expensive, high effort, well established market like the gaming market only to capture a small fraction of it with a product they were close to selling or killing off. I'm sure they wouldn't mind a share of it, but they won't spend a fortune trying to capture it, at least not until Mac proves itself to be more profitable than it has been.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline Binancaa

  • Posts: 0
Re: Apple M1 CPU
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 29 December 2021, 08:46:20 »
there is already the m2 cpu so we need to renovate the topic
I got it but see no critical difference between m1 and m2
it's still convenient for video editing (what I do fo living) it just got a little bit faster and that's all