[IC] Command Key

[mashby]

Take The Poll

Take The Second Poll!

There appear to be quite a few Mac users amongst us here and after receiving the Raindrop key cap set it suddenly dawned on me that this is one of the only sets that I've purchased that came with a Command Key. Don't you wish other popular sets included a command key (⌘)? What about an Option key (⌥)?

My thought is that if there is enough interest perhaps we could put together a small group buy for just the command key, much like the GEEK HACK keys have been done in the past. The set would include 1 and 1.25 modifiers with the Command Key icon and would match popular group buys that have already come an gone.

Some examples might include:
   - Klaxon / Red Alert
   - CCnG
   - Retro DCS
   - Valentine

This is an interest check, so if you've got an opinion, I'd love to hear it!

[orlando]

I'm in! I really hope this happens.

[metafour]

White on black, Dolch, and 1.5x mods would be nice to see as well.

[n0rvig]

I get the retro vibe around here, but I've been really surprised at how seldom the Mac keys come up. This would be great.

[kelske]

Awesome idea

[ishtob]

DSA!

[rowdy]

+1

[Leslieann]

I wouldn't mind as well.
It would make a nice alternative to a Windows key if nothing else.

[rowdy]

What about Option keys too?

[tjweir]

I'd be in for 2 each of:
   - Klaxon / Red Alert
   - Retro DCS

And if we could get a traditional Cherry Black on White/Beige I'd get 2 of those as well.

[mashby]

What about Option keys too?

We might be able to include that too. I'll have to check and see if they have the mold.

White on black, Dolch, and 1.5x mods would be nice to see as well.

I hadn't thought about 1.5, I guess because I assumed those were only found on winkeyless boards. What boards use 1.5 modifiers?

[ctbear]

I will be very interested in some CCnG flavor...please make it happen 

[w3djyt]

I'm in! o7

[mashby]

Since there appears to be some interest, here are some more thoughts.

Let's say we start with CCnG for our first set. If we include 1x 1.25x and 1.50x modifiers then that means 6 key caps for each color. There are two colors in this series, so that'd mean a total of 12 key caps.  If we add in the Option key, then that'd bring the total up to 24 key caps.

I've never run a key cap group buy, so I don't know what Signature Plastics pricing is like other than to look at past group buys to give us a ballpark. Looking at Klaxon's Tsangan set as a reference, it might be something like $20 - $30 a set. Again, this is just a guesstimate at this point.

Given all the options, I've updated the OP and created a form for us to capture this information. Please fill out the form so we can get some better numbers on what people are looking for.

Thanks!

[w3djyt]

Any other options for color possibly? Red Alert or Valentine etc...? I'd buy, but I don't have any use for CCnG :/

[mashby]

Any other options for color possibly? Red Alert or Valentine etc...? I'd buy, but I don't have any use for CCnG :/

No color has been chosen at this point, we're just using CCnG as an example since it has two colors. The poll will indicate what the everyone's preferences are.

If there's enough interest and it goes well, then I can see doing this for all the popular color ways. Well, at least until more group buys include the key caps like Raindrop did. 

[ishtob]

DSA!

[tsangan]

DSA!

DSA!

Someone wants DSA I think?

[w3djyt]

Ah, sounds good! Filled out the form, then

[rowdy]

Form submitted.

How about adding the form link to the OP?

Also if it was just one colour, I would be likely to buy one set (as indicated on my form).  If it was 2 colours, I would be tempted to get two sets (depending on the colours, obviously).

As above I have nothing to match CCnG but black or white would go well.

Or even RGB-style?

[mashby]

Form submitted.

How about adding the form link to the OP?

I thought I did, but I'm on my phone, so it's hard to edit, so I'll double check it in the morning.

Liked you RGB color idea. What color would it be though? Yellow?

[rowdy]

Form submitted.

How about adding the form link to the OP?

I thought I did, but I'm on my phone, so it's hard to edit, so I'll double check it in the morning.

Liked you RGB color idea. What color would it be though? Yellow?

You read my mind - yellow

[rowdy]

Also just to mention relevant products:

http://www.qwerkeys.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_72&product_id=117
http://www.qwerkeys.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_72&product_id=118

Only 1x size though.

[ForestFunK]

I would be interested in white / grey cmd and alt keys in 1,25x. Filled out the form.

[mashby]

I just realize my earlier math came up a little bit short. There should be two modifier keys per color -- one for the left side and one for the right. This means the key cap count would be double.

If the end result of the kit is all three sizes (1x, 1.25x, 1.5x), two colors and we include the option key, then it'd be 48 key caps it total.

[tom88jerry]

Sound good too.
Will find a chance to fill the form.

[vivalarevolución]

I would be interested in this as well. Perhaps a great addition to the Ergodox.

[Megaweapon]

Also just to mention relevant products:

http://www.qwerkeys.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_72&product_id=117
http://www.qwerkeys.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_72&product_id=118

Only 1x size though.

What profile are these?  How are they printed?

[mashby]

This thread appears to be loosing steam. If you haven't taken the poll yet, I would encourage you to do so. :-)

[nightsnack]

Did the poll earlier. Still interested in this if it goes ahead

[rowdy]

Doesn't seem like there's that many Mac users around

[n0rvig]

Doesn't seem like there's that many Mac users around

Odd, because I see lots of macs in the background when people post pictures of their keyboards on here.

[ForestFunK]

I guess not everyone is checking the IC forums regularly.

[IvanIvanovich]

For those of you interested in dyesubs have a look here! Don't let me interrupt any other plans though.

[Poom]

Not only the command and option, but delete instead of backspace and return instead of enter.

Well, just like the ISO modifiers set, ill definitly order that everytime! and would order every group buys too.

[mashby]

For those of you interested in dyesubs have a look here! Don't let me interrupt any other plans though.

That's a great looking set Ivan. Thank you for posting a link so that us Mac users can better find it. Nice job!

Not only the command and option, but delete instead of backspace and return instead of enter.

Well, just like the ISO modifiers set, ill definitly order that everytime! and would order every group buys too.

Interesting, I didn't think about the other keys affected, but you're right, we do have some different legends. Hmmm....

[vorn]

I'd only be interested if the profile was DSA

But profile aside, if this set had an RGBY option it might make it fit more universally with existing keyboard setups.

If there was a DSA profile offering, my ideal would be white on GX dark grey (Dolch), or Blue Option and Yellow Command (to match my RGBY set). But that is very specific.

What are the most common colours used for modifiers?
White on black?
Black on beige?

[rowdy]

I'd only be interested if the profile was DSA

But profile aside, if this set had an RGBY option it might make it fit more universally with existing keyboard setups.

If there was a DSA profile offering, my ideal would be white on GX dark grey (Dolch), or Blue Option and Yellow Command (to match my RGBY set). But that is very specific.

What are the most common colours used for modifiers?
White on black?
Black on beige?

Heh you won't get me objecting to yellow

Bot not DSA - it wouldn't match anything else I have.

[aggiejy]

NICE!  I totally missed this thread, but I've been saying this for years.  In fact, I volunteered to pay for legends to any GB organizer that is making a set.  Of course, now I already have made the command key for RainDrop (assuming you like that size).  (And 7bit did one for Round3 that was bigger.)  The option would be nice too.  (Though, I use Caps as my options, but still...)

[YoungMichael88]

I would really love this in Klaxon RoG
And in other common colors also. Gotta get those windows keys out of my sets as an exclusive Mac user.

[mashby]

NICE!  I totally missed this thread, but I've been saying this for years.  In fact, I volunteered to pay for legends to any GB organizer that is making a set.  Of course, now I already have made the command key for RainDrop (assuming you like that size).  (And 7bit did one for Round3 that was bigger.)  The option would be nice too.  (Though, I use Caps as my options, but still...)

Thanks aggiejy! Raindrop was actually the inspiration for this IC.  So thank you for including it in your set.

Update
Based on the results of the poll thus far, it seems like $20 is the sweet spot price wise and most want both the Command Key and the Option key. Also, most folks are looking for a 1.25 modifier and not the 1.5 and 1x, so we'll probably start with just the 1.25

I like the idea of including a "Delete" key and "Return" key, but I don't know that we could include them and hit the $20 price point, but it's definitely worth looking into. Of course for those sets that used graphics for those keys, there's really no sense in replacing those.

Colors
Which brings us to the next question, which is what colorway should we start with? White on Black seems like the best first choice in that it's basic and has the broadest appeal. Next, it seems like a RGB companion would be popular as well. white on yellow / black on yellow would work for command key, but if we include the option key, then there needs to be a white on blue and black on blue key.

The White on Black set would be 4 keys with a single color way. The RGB set would be 8 keys and two colorways. So it seems like the White on Black would be the best call for a first set.

Thoughts?

[YoungMichael88]

I would be in for a white on black set

[Leslieann]

Colors
Which brings us to the next question, which is what colorway should we start with? White on Black seems like the best first choice in that it's basic and has the broadest appeal. Next, it seems like a RGB companion would be popular as well. white on yellow / black on yellow would work for command key, but if we include the option key, then there needs to be a white on blue and black on blue key.

The White on Black set would be 4 keys with a single color way. The RGB set would be 8 keys and two colorways. So it seems like the White on Black would be the best call for a first set.

Thoughts?

I think this will be the biggest hurdle, fragmentation. I have no need for either of the color sets you mentioned and by the time you break it all down, you may only get 10 people per color.

[aggiejy]

Agreed, but it could be set up like Elton set up the Tai Hao group buy.  Basically, you list the options and start taking orders.  Let it run until you have enough of some of the colors.  If some colors don't make it, you cut them.  I'm usually for fast group buys, but something like this you may need to let it percolate a bit so people see it.

[aggiejy]

As far as style options, there are a couple that have been done.

I did this one, only in 1.25x, for RainDrop:


In the original 7bit Round 3 group buy, he offered an optional command key.  I can't seem to find a picture, and mine is in some bag somewhere. It was the same as RainDrop, but bigger.

And it looks like he redid it in three sizes in round 4.  Here's a pic from the Noir set:

That's closer to what Apple does I guess, except middle left instead of top right.

So this brings up the question on the style we want to do.  That last photo would be cheapest obviously, assuming 7bit gives permission to use his legends, since we'd only have to cut the option keys.  But I guess it depends on how it matches with other set legend locations.  (I did a larger centered one because it's similar to a win key... though it's certainly not like what Apple does.)

[mashby]

I think this will be the biggest hurdle, fragmentation. I have no need for either of the color sets you mentioned and by the time you break it all down, you may only get 10 people per color.

I would hope that wouldn't happen, but I think 25 per color may not be that hard. Only one way to find out.
 

Originally, I was thinking that we'd run several small group buys and break them out to run every other month, or something to that effect. After talking with Aggiejy, I'm not so sure that's the best plan.  His suggestion of doing it as one big group buy and just kill whatever colors don't make the cut makes sense. With this approach, we could do Valentines, CCnG, B&W, RGB, Klaxxon, etc. and then make the call as to what the minimum would be. SP would probably prefer that approach and it may make it easier on the delivery end as well.

What I'm Thinking Right Now
1. Assuming that legend fees are that big of a deal with the command key, we could do those in 1x 1.25x and 1.5x sizes all in one set. 6 key caps total in each colorway. Running my preliminary numbers using White on Black as an example, we could get a set of these for ~$15 with 25 orders.

2. I'll check and see if SP has the option key and based on what they tell me, we can make a decision from there and if it makes sense to include it or not.

3. I don't think the "Delete" and "Return" keys will make the cut. Not saying anything definite, but it looks like they double the price of the set given that there's only one per set.

What Colorways?
Now that we're talking about doing one big group buy, instead of a bi-monthly, what colors would you like to see. So far, I have the following:

- White on Black
- Black on White
- Black on Beige
- WYSE
- Cream Cheese n' Green (2 colors)
- Klaxxon (3 colors)
- Valentines (2 colors)
- Yellow for RGB (2 colors, white text and black text)
- Sanctuary

Any other suggestions?

[rowdy]

As usual, there are too many great colours to choose from.

I'm not sure there are that many Mac users who would participate, but I'm sure a few non-Mac users would grab a few sets due to the novelty factor

BTW I was pleasantly surprised to find command and option keys on my HHKB!

[megaxpop]

yeah! +1

[w3djyt]

Okay, I guess I'm going to be the newb about this, then... can we get some examples or breakdowns for those color names? For example, what exactly is Sanctuary? ^^;

[mashby]

Okay, I guess I'm going to be the newb about this, then... can we get some examples or breakdowns for those color names? For example, what exactly is Sanctuary? ^^;

Sure w3djyt. See below:
   - Klaxxon (Red, White and Grey)
   - Cream Cheese and Green (CCnG) (Cream and Green)
   - Sanctuary (Red on Black)
   - Valentine (Light Pink, Dark Pink and White)
   - WYSE (Blue, Grey)
   - RGBY (Red, Green, Blue, Yellow with White and/or Black text)