Language Arts Mastery

[itlnstln]

So I'm reading reviews for a product on SteepAndCheap.com (a Woot-type site for hiking/camping equipment), and I stumble across this unintelligible drivel from one of the customers:

good bag holds on when i get going.stuff stays dry trust me im out in the grind hard.has alot of room

It just got me thinking about how awful people's language skills are on the Internet.  It's like they completely forget how to talk/write.  I mean, sometimes what people write in message boards, product reviews, etc. does not even equate to how they would say what they wrote in person, let alone how the would write it if it were prose.

I know message boards, reviews, etc. are fairly informal, and informal writing pervades these media, but dammit, people, write coherently, so I can figure out WTF you are to say!!!  BTW, proper punctuation and capitalization helps greatly along these lines, but at least try to spell correctly and create properly formed sentences.

*steps off soapbox*

P.S. I completely understand non-native language speakers participating in a forum that is not based in their native language.  I am talking about Joe Blow from backwoods Appalachia who can't form a second grade sentence; writing, instead, something that belongs on a LOLCAT.  Clear writing is one of the things I enjoy on this forum, and I applaud everyone here for their good writing skills.  Thank you.

[lowpoly]

punctuation and capitalization helps greatly along these lines, but at least try to spell correctly

I found a spelling error, haha.

But seriously, english speaking forums are so much better than german speaking forums where often wrong-spellers are the majority. Must be the school system.

[itlnstln]

LOL!  I corrected it; thanks!

[xsphat]

Something that belongs on LOLCATS, that cracks me up because it's so true. I'm a professional writer and an English major so itlnstln, your post is a mirror of my own way of thinking. Whenever people ask me how they can write better, I tell them to write how they speak. That my friends is the trick.

I can has Nerthgete keybordz?

[KBurchfiel]

I tried writing a post in all caps to prove a point, but the site automatically "decased" my sentense. Come to think of it, that's a pretty smart feature.

[itlnstln]

I know a lot of older techies (50 y/o +, particularly those who were in the military) that have a hard time with casing.  For whatever reason, they prefer to write everything in all caps.  Unfortunately, for them, that is perceived as yelling in netiquette terms.  Sometimes, when I receive e-mail from some of them, the all-caps throws me off a little, but since I know them, I can read through that.  Others, though, may not be so forgiving.

XsPhat:

I am n ur Moddle Mz bukling ur spreengz!

[xsphat]

argo kaiboordz iz 4 grrlz!

[itlnstln]

You win.  I went to a LOLCATS site to look for a funny one (like they exist), but I noticed that the comments were rife with LOLCAT language, and my IQ dropped about 27 points.

Fail.

[xsphat]

I think they are really fun. The pictures that is, never read the comments though.

[itlnstln]

Maybe they weren't funny on the site I was on.  When I read the comments, though, I bolted.

http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/10/02/funny-pictures-omgomgomg-2/#comments

For some reason, I have problems seeing the actual pictures on this site (maybe because I am at work.)

[itlnstln]

Here's one that's appropriate...

[megarat]

This is scratching a certain itch of mine.

In my 13ish years as a professional rat-racer, I've come to the conclusion that the Number One determinant of success in the workplace is the facile ability to communicate.  (And Number Two is keeping thy cool.)  (And I'm not counting personal connections, mind you.  Nepotism trumps everything.)

Ability, skills, knowledge ... they all work to your advantage, but (in most circumstances) a guru engineer who can't communicate effectively won't fare nearly as well as a shade-tree engineer who writes lovely text, is well-spoken, and is a good listener.  I can name a few exceptions to this rule, but I believe the average falls this way over the long term.  "The House always wins."

I'm curious to hear what others think about this.

[graywolf]

P.S. I completely understand non-native language speakers participating in a forum that is not based in their native language.  I am talking about Joe Blow from backwoods Appalachia who can't form a second grade sentence; writing, instead, something that belongs on a LOLCAT.  Clear writing is one of the things I enjoy on this forum, and I applaud everyone here for their good writing skills.  Thank you.

say what. yous got somtin agin usuns har in de moutains o nort carlina. u dem taxans got no rom ta talk.

From Boone, North Carolina, in the Blue Ridge range of the Appalacian Mountains.

You paint with a rather broad brush. I understand about willful ignorance, in fact I am writing an article on the subject. However, insulting folks who live in a different region is not too cool. There are educated folks everywhere, just as there are uneducated folks everywhere, and those who simply don't give a **** everywhere. In fact you remind me of about a million years ago when I was in basic training. One of the guys used excessive profanity. The Sgt made him write a one thosand word paper on why ignorant people used profanity. He knocked it off in about a half hour, the sgt was up all night with a dictionary trying to read it. Turned out the guys civilian job was ghosting disertations for doctorate students. I on the other hand am a highschool drop out, and quite proud of it; however, it looks like I will be going to Appalachian State University, where no doubt they teach folks to write like the sample above, in January, almost fifty years later.

Folks on a keyboard list most likely like to write, and put a bit of effort into it. I, however, do not put a lot of effort into web posts, and only edit them if the meaning is not clear. I write for fun, you have to pay me to edit (grin).

[xsphat]

Nice.

[itlnstln]

Graywolf, you prove my point quite well.  I am not a native Texan, I was born in Kentucky (my dad was in the Military), and in both places, as well as Ohio, California, New York, England, Canada, etc., there are some pretty bad speakers and writers.  While I could have, and, maybe, should have, used England as my example, the point was no matter where you are from, language mastery is an important skill. Particularly in a realm where our only interaction is text, it shapes opinions and perceptions of individuals, their businesses, organizations, political affiliations, and any other entity one might represent.  While I did not intend to single one area of the US, or World, for that matter,  I wanted to illustrate my point that the ability to form complete and coherent speech and writing is imperative to convey that one is not a dumbass.  Hell, there are plenty of people in my backyard that can't even talk let alone write a properly formed sentence.

Appalachian State has a strong Liberal Arts program (not to mention a pretty decent football team).  Their A/V Dept. leaves something to be desired; however.  Their recruitment video is horrendous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVENWl8uBeg.  I graduated from the University of Texas in 2000 with a B.A. in History (Classical Civ. Minor).  It's funny, though, I started as a CS major but switched after my Freshman year to History after finding bored with the tedium of coding.  These days, I am a web applications developer and DBA.  I guess things always come full circle.  Good luck in January at Appalachian State.  I would love to go back to school; I miss my college days.

[graywolf]

Well, I am not going into a program, just taking a class now and then. North Carolina has a nifty deal were us old folks can take classes free if all the seats are not taken by paying students.

[itlnstln]

That's not a bad deal.  I would love to do that at one of our local Univeristies if they offered it.  The learning and intelligent discussion would be well worth it.  The scenery wouldn't be too bad, either.

[xsphat]

My college does that too. There's this cool old poet dude who takes a lot of the same classes I do. I'd like to do that when I'm of age if it's is still around in thirty years ...

Hey graywolf, at my college, you don't gain any credits this way so you can't earn a degree. Is that how your's is? It'd be worth doing either way.

[graywolf]

Well, you have to register as a non-degree student, but the lady in admissions said you can take it for credit, or audit, your choice. However it sounded like you can only take one class at a time which is all I want anyway. I was thinking I might take something that would expand my writing horizons, any suggestions?

[xsphat]

Take a class on writing well outside your norm. I'm in a class where I have to write a bunch of skits in playbill format and then I have to direct and star in them. That's a  trip. Look at your background in writing and find your comfort zones and take a class that's the polar opposite.

[bhtooefr]

I tell them to write how they speak.

Have you heard some of today's youth speak?

The YouTube generation is writing how they speak.

[wellington1869]

So many people here with liberal arts backgrounds - playwrights, authors, graduate students in the humanities, etc -- A keyboard forum may be one of those rare places where computer-geeks and literature-geeks come together naturally. It doesnt usually happen, I think. At my university anyway the comp sci folks stay far away from the humanities buildings (and vice versa).

[CaptCarrot]

My mother taught english (amongst other things) in primary school, and my mother-in-law taught english as a foreign language.

No I know my spelling and punctuation are not the greatest on the planet (hindered by poor typing on the computer and the ever pervasive spell checker).  But i do try.

I do use l33t speak or bad  abbreviation and deliberate mispelling of words in some circumstances, but I do generally prefer to type as if I were writing a letter.

I even try to use full length words and opunctuation when texting.



To show how bad it is, some school children are now writing in txt form in class... EVEN in exams!!!

[itlnstln]

So many people here with liberal arts backgrounds - playwrights, authors, graduate students in the humanities, etc -- A keyboard forum may be one of those rare places where computer-geeks and literature-geeks come together naturally. It doesnt usually happen, I think. At my university anyway the comp sci folks stay far away from the humanities buildings (and vice versa).

It's funny you mention this.  I was a CS major when I started college, and I ended up with a degree in History.  Nowadays, I am a DBA and Web Developer; go figure.

[wellington1869]

It's funny you mention this. I was a CS major when I started college, and I ended up with a degree in History. Nowadays, I am a DBA and Web Developer; go figure.

Funny you should mention that, I was an engineering major in undergrad, worked for 3 years, decided to switch careers and am currently doing a phd in history.
 
Its nice to be able to freely cross the border between comp sci/humanities worlds, isnt it? I'm definitely enjoying it. (I actually dont know if I'll wind up back in computer world after graduation, but I'm very glad for this little humanities/social science detour, its very enjoyable)