geekhack Community > Ergonomics
microsoft ergo layout
mrninhvn:
yeah, I want to design a similar mechanical keyboard with that layout, alice layout is not good enough for me
nevin:
then you're starting from scratch
- buy one and use it for measurements
- 3d print a shell
- handwire the switches to a controller, use teensy ++2.0 if doing full size.
Some good handwiring articles:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87689.0
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=1067
use the dactyl manuforms as an example of how to print your shell
Findecanor:
--- Quote from: mrninhvn on Mon, 12 July 2021, 11:50:39 ---I want to find out is the curvature between the keycap, the keys are arranged like an arc
--- End quote ---
Microsoft and Logitech make custom keycaps specifically for those keyboards, while mechanical keyboards have to use standard keycaps, each with the same square footprint.
Many of these keyboards from Microsoft or clones of them from other brands are also a little weird also in that they often increase the row-stagger for the keys by curving the keys that way.
The "Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard" (the official name, without any "Natural", "Sculpt" or "Surface" brand) has a little less row-stagger than other Microsoft keyboards though.
I know of only two attempts of mechanical keyboards with standard keycaps that are actually curving the rows, and one of them is (yet) only a concept I made:
Since 2011, I've had an idea of improving the "symmetric stagger" layout by curving it a bit, but I didn't get the maths right until I revisited the idea in 2019. Then I made this sketch (generated from a Python script, and then edited in QCAD and The Gimp)
The curvature is calculated procedurally, and with collision detection to make sure that the spacing does not get too small. However, the overall width each row needs to be a bit wider than standard just to facilitate the use of standard keycaps!
I built a mockup for it also, and defined the matrix and controller in KiCad, but I never decided on how to lay out the thumb keys, so this here is mostly an idea. I haven't worked on it for months now. Was supposed to be fully split and tented (along red lines), or as a compact option (without the parts outside the red lines).
Last fall there was the GB of the Sagittarius. Maybe it will come back. It is flat with no tenting.
The right side has neither fully straight columns nor retained row-stagger but something in-between. Overall it is in-effect a column-stagger with rotated keycaps like mine but with larger column offsets.
The left hand's keys are more like the Alice though, only curved somewhat. I believe they used a constraint-optimising algorithm for theirs.
...
Among columnar split keyboards, there are those that lay out columns in various ways though. Several examples exist where the columns spread out like the fingers on the hand.
The Willow64 and WillowPecoe curve the columns instead of the rows.
nevin:
thanks @Findecanor for chiming in...
mrninhvn:
--- Quote from: Findecanor on Mon, 12 July 2021, 12:41:36 ---
--- Quote from: mrninhvn on Mon, 12 July 2021, 11:50:39 ---I want to find out is the curvature between the keycap, the keys are arranged like an arc
--- End quote ---
Microsoft and Logitech make custom keycaps specifically for those keyboards, while mechanical keyboards have to use standard keycaps, each with the same square footprint.
Many of these keyboards from Microsoft or clones of them from other brands are also a little weird also in that they often increase the row-stagger for the keys by curving the keys that way.
The "Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard" (the official name, without any "Natural", "Sculpt" or "Surface" brand) has a little less row-stagger than other Microsoft keyboards though.
I know of only two attempts of mechanical keyboards with standard keycaps that are actually curving the rows, and one of them is (yet) only a concept I made:
Since 2011, I've had an idea of improving the "symmetric stagger" layout by curving it a bit, but I didn't get the maths right until I revisited the idea in 2019. Then I made this sketch (generated from a Python script, and then edited in QCAD and The Gimp)
(Attachment Link)
The curvature is calculated procedurally, and with collision detection to make sure that the spacing does not get too small. However, the overall width each row needs to be a bit wider than standard just to facilitate the use of standard keycaps!
I built a mockup for it also, and defined the matrix and controller in KiCad, but I never decided on how to lay out the thumb keys, so this here is mostly an idea. I haven't worked on it for months now. Was supposed to be fully split and tented (along red lines), or as a compact option (without the parts outside the red lines).
Last fall there was the GB of the Sagittarius. Maybe it will come back. It is flat with no tenting.
The right side has neither fully straight columns nor retained row-stagger but something in-between. Overall it is in-effect a column-stagger with rotated keycaps like mine but with larger column offsets.
The left hand's keys are more like the Alice though, only curved somewhat. I believe they used a constraint-optimising algorithm for theirs.
...
Among columnar split keyboards, there are those that lay out columns in various ways though. Several examples exist where the columns spread out like the fingers on the hand.
The Willow64 and WillowPecoe curve the columns instead of the rows.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for suggestion, I know more ergonomic layouts, like splay46, but microsoft ergo is popular and it seems easier to switch from the traditional keyboard, besides, Sagittarius seems to be too curvy.
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