geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: _haru on Fri, 12 January 2018, 18:05:55

Title: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: _haru on Fri, 12 January 2018, 18:05:55

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/cherry-releases-new-mx-low-profile-rgb-high-precision-switch.html

Discuss.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: ErgoMacros on Fri, 12 January 2018, 19:17:33

Here's the Cherry page:
   https://www.cherrymx.de/en/low-profile-rgb.html (https://www.cherrymx.de/en/low-profile-rgb.html)

Their video at the end. Youtube has some reviews.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 12 January 2018, 19:26:29

"MX Low Profile" is a misleading name because only the stem is Cherry MX-compatible... and so is also Cherry MY, M8 etc.
Over on DT, we decided to call it "Cherry LP" instead.

Here's the only video I've found so far:

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: xondat on Fri, 12 January 2018, 19:32:03

Surprised at how little the loss of travel is. Quite interested in trying this.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Hyde on Fri, 12 January 2018, 20:26:34

Damnnnnn very interested in trying it out, I also already quite enjoy Cherry's low profile keycaps already (currently on Cherry MX Board 2.0 and 3.0).

:D


EDIT:  Here is the video for those who missed it at their page.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Harms on Fri, 12 January 2018, 22:51:27

Hopefully in the future they will sell the switches separately and then custom kits will arise :D

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Giorgio on Fri, 12 January 2018, 23:47:26

  Initial force is too high, it's more than ten grams heavier than cherry MX red, and heavier than MX black... This means that to make the switch move you have to press really hard, and then you find a nearly constant resistance, instead of a linearly increasing one. Which seems quite unpleasant. This depends on the length of the spring.


http://www.tomshardware.com/news/cherry-mx-low-profile-rgb-mechanical-keyboard-switches,36328.html


[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Tom_Kazansky on Sat, 13 January 2018, 01:33:02

I'm interested in blue version :D

time to build a true travel board  :))  (just joking...)

Quote from: Giorgio on Fri, 12 January 2018, 23:47:26

Initial force is too high, it's more than ten grams heavier than cherry MX red, and heavier than MX black... This means that to make the switch move you have to press really hard, and then you find a nearly constant resistance, instead of a linearly increasing one. Which seems quite unpleasant. This depends on the length of the spring.


http://www.tomshardware.com/news/cherry-mx-low-profile-rgb-mechanical-keyboard-switches,36328.html


(Attachment Link)

ugh... hope someone will make replacement springs...

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 13 January 2018, 07:16:15

Cherry MX Brown starts at ~40 cN, and there are lots of other switches with relatively flat force curves that people like, so I would not rule it out until you have tried it.

Edit:
Heh. Apparently, not all MX Red are equal. HaaTa's measurements of a MX Red RGB (https://plot.ly/~haata/268/cherry-mx-red-rgb/) show that this particular switch starts just under 40 gf and actuates at 50.. Hrmpf...

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Merranza on Sat, 13 January 2018, 08:04:56

Good job Cherry, this will make things even more confusing from now on after releasing your speed switch.

Basically, the low profile MX red is a stiffer version of the MX speed only starting at a lower position on the keyboard.

In other words, it's a lower speed switch where your travel distance will make you bottom out closer to the board instead of higher "in the air".

MX speed force graph:

(https://www.cherrymx.de/_Resources/Persistent/efb723392192c07fee959c3fa65cc98a669006b5/img-graph-mxSpeed.svg)

MX low profile red graph:

(https://www.cherrymx.de/_Resources/Persistent/095011c6e5ee2edd158001b250d9a4b40a1df689/lprgbRED2.svg)

Unless there's something I don't understand, that's how I see it.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: nonah on Sat, 13 January 2018, 09:51:26

Quote from: Merranza on Sat, 13 January 2018, 08:04:56

Good job Cherry, this will make things even more confusing from now on after releasing your speed switch.

Basically, the low profile MX red is a stiffer version of the MX speed only starting at a lower position on the keyboard.

In other words, it's a lower speed switch where your travel distance will make you bottom out closer to the board instead of higher "in the air".

MX speed force graph:

Show Image

(https://www.cherrymx.de/_Resources/Persistent/efb723392192c07fee959c3fa65cc98a669006b5/img-graph-mxSpeed.svg)

MX low profile red graph:

Show Image

(https://www.cherrymx.de/_Resources/Persistent/095011c6e5ee2edd158001b250d9a4b40a1df689/lprgbRED2.svg)

Unless there's something I don't understand, that's how I see it.

That just seems like an awfully confusing way of looking at it.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Merranza on Sun, 14 January 2018, 08:29:06

Quote from: nonah on Sat, 13 January 2018, 09:51:26

Quote from: Merranza on Sat, 13 January 2018, 08:04:56

Good job Cherry, this will make things even more confusing from now on after releasing your speed switch.

Basically, the low profile MX red is a stiffer version of the MX speed only starting at a lower position on the keyboard.

In other words, it's a lower speed switch where your travel distance will make you bottom out closer to the board instead of higher "in the air".

MX speed force graph:

Show Image

(https://www.cherrymx.de/_Resources/Persistent/efb723392192c07fee959c3fa65cc98a669006b5/img-graph-mxSpeed.svg)

MX low profile red graph:

Show Image

(https://www.cherrymx.de/_Resources/Persistent/095011c6e5ee2edd158001b250d9a4b40a1df689/lprgbRED2.svg)

Unless there's something I don't understand, that's how I see it.

That just seems like an awfully confusing way of looking at it.

Why are you saying so?

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Hyde on Sun, 14 January 2018, 14:40:10

Quote from: Giorgio on Fri, 12 January 2018, 23:47:26

Initial force is too high, it's more than ten grams heavier than cherry MX red, and heavier than MX black... This means that to make the switch move you have to press really hard, and then you find a nearly constant resistance, instead of a linearly increasing one. Which seems quite unpleasant. This depends on the length of the spring.


http://www.tomshardware.com/news/cherry-mx-low-profile-rgb-mechanical-keyboard-switches,36328.html


(Attachment Link)

I think it should be fine, if anything I actually prefer constant force than force that ramp up.

So I have a MX Red keyboard also another board with 62g custom springs.  I much prefer the MX Red than the 62g custom springs.

The MX Red just feels stable and the force ramp up more constant.  The 62g spring feels like it start too light and bottom out too heavy, since it start out too light so it feel like it's more wobbly.  I wanted to try the 62g since I had a MX Black keyboard which I find too heavy then I wanted to see what the hype is with custom springs, what a huge let down.  I much prefer stock MX Red.  Custom spring is horrible on linear switch (tactile switch might be ok).

Also the Low Profile Red bottom out about 60g very similar to the regular MX Red which also bottom out at 60g.

If anything I think I might like this MORE.  I wouldn't worry about it.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Lepidus on Sun, 14 January 2018, 14:45:32

(https://i.imgur.com/aZQu8Zv.jpg)

Are they compatible with MX plates?

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Hyde on Sun, 14 January 2018, 14:54:26

From the picture it seems like the mounting size is same size, however PCB will have to be different since the pin location and the size of the middle stem is different.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 14 January 2018, 15:13:12

No datasheet released yet. The side-by-side drawing is not an orthographic projection so I could not measure exactly. It looks like it would fit, but only held in place by friction. I am not sure if it is supposed to snap on like Cherry MX, but ... then (judging by the tiny bumps on the side of the switch) then the hole would need to be a fraction smaller, cut with finer tolerances and the plate only 1.0 +0.2 mm thick compared to ~1.5 for Cherry MX.
I would not count on being able to build hand-wired keyboards with snap-fit low-profile switches.

None of the pins match up with Cherry MX (I measured). If the LED position matches Cherry MX well enough then I think it would be possible to build compatible PCBs that support both, similar to how some keyboards support both MX and Alps. Otherwise I think it would be better to have the low-profile switch oriented the other way.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: nogoodnames444 on Tue, 16 January 2018, 14:45:44

I wonder if a company buys rights to the switch like corsair or something

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: t_southwell on Tue, 16 January 2018, 15:25:54

A few keyboards have already been announced with these switches so I don't think a company can have even timed exclusivity that corsair had with the speed switches.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 16 January 2018, 15:49:47

There were several companies at CES 2018 that showed prototypes with the switch. (Check the videos posted above!)

I think it is therefore unlikely that Cherry would allow any one of them to buy exclusive rights for it for a limited time... Well, at least to the Red one.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: ramencup on Wed, 17 January 2018, 12:28:34

could be an interesting choice for a portable 60%
i'm intrigued but i have no idea if it's any good

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: nogoodnames444 on Wed, 17 January 2018, 14:23:36

I just don't know why i would want a low profile switch

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Giorgio on Wed, 17 January 2018, 17:41:16

Quote from: nogoodnames444 on Wed, 17 January 2018, 14:23:36

I just don't know why i would want a low profile switch

It is way less wobbly by design. It should be close to topre.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: nogoodnames444 on Wed, 17 January 2018, 19:21:48

Quote from: Giorgio on Wed, 17 January 2018, 17:41:16

Quote from: nogoodnames444 on Wed, 17 January 2018, 14:23:36

I just don't know why i would want a low profile switch

It is way less wobbly by design. It should be close to topre.
[
Welp i have a type heaven coming tomorrow so rip that idea

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 18 January 2018, 14:25:43

They aren't giving away samples. Probably cherry would listen to a GH administrator.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 18 January 2018, 15:21:24

Quote from: Giorgio on Wed, 17 January 2018, 17:41:16

Quote from: nogoodnames444 on Wed, 17 January 2018, 14:23:36

I just don't know why i would want a low profile switch

It is way less wobbly by design. It should be close to topre.

I think people finally catching on to the sidewall design.  First Topre, then Kailh box swtich, now Cherry low profile switch.

But yeah hopefully the Cherry one will end up like the other 2 where it's smooth and no wobble.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Kavik on Thu, 18 January 2018, 17:05:30

If they were compatible with the same PCBs, it would be nice. I wonder if this will kill the kailh low profile switches. I personally wish there were taller switches with a bigger feel. I think the limiting factor on clickiness and tactility is sometimes the small form factor.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Hyde on Sat, 24 November 2018, 05:39:00

So the Corsair version of this is out, namely K70 MK2 Low Profile.

Anyone got their hands on one to give some feedback yet?

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Tom_Kazansky on Tue, 27 November 2018, 03:12:04

hmm... are these switches available for hobbyist yet?  :)

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 29 November 2018, 16:41:25

I actually wonder if Corsair bought the right again so in which case everyone else have to wait a year till they can use it.

Sigh......

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Fri, 30 November 2018, 11:13:37

Sigh. No chance of low profile @ ~35g? That'd be my freaking dream.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 30 November 2018, 11:42:54

I have read a couple of reviews of the Corsair K70. In short:
- More silent than regular Cherry MX Red.
- No complaints about being stiff or scratchy ...
- The keycaps are wider on the top because the switches are wider on the top than Cherry MX. :(
- Oh my God, the Light Bleed! If you have only one key lit, it looks like two keys in every direction are also lit.

BTW. According to Rama.Works' blog they are smoother on off-centre key presses than Kailh "Choc" low-profile switches.

Quote from: Hyde on Thu, 29 November 2018, 16:41:25

I actually wonder if Corsair bought the right again so in which case everyone else have to wait a year till they can use it.

Cooler Master also has keyboards with these switches to be released soon.

Quote from: NewbieOneKenobi on Fri, 30 November 2018, 11:13:37

Sigh. No chance of low profile @ ~35g? That'd be my freaking dream.

We'll just have to see if we could open them up and replace the springs with something. I'm guessing that the spring is different from regular Cherry MX — but that problem could be overcome, like there are now third-party springs for Cherry MX.

Title: Re: CES 2018: Cherry MX Low Profile RGB
Post by: Hyde on Fri, 30 November 2018, 23:39:32

Quote from: Findecanor on Fri, 30 November 2018, 11:42:54

Quote from: Hyde on Thu, 29 November 2018, 16:41:25

I actually wonder if Corsair bought the right again so in which case everyone else have to wait a year till they can use it.

Cooler Master also has keyboards with these switches to be released soon.

Ohhhh I think I'll wait for the Cooler Master version then.