Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[davkol]

I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame

JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.

[AMongoose]

yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.

Show Image

O.O ... That's a great idea.
Are you trying to convince me to buy a JIS realforce?

[E3E]

O.O ... That's a great idea.
Are you trying to convince me to buy a JIS realforce?

Except that's more of an idealized layout and not how the layout is on a JIS realforce. I guess if you want to use software to remap it, then sure. I prefer ANSI, but I do have a few JIS models.

[davkol]

The physical layout is copied from 91U. Does it require remapping? Sure, but that's a very simple job for xkb/PKL/hasu's converter… I wouldn't want to use default US QWERTY on an ANSI layout either.

[AMongoose]

Except that's more of an idealized layout and not how the layout is on a JIS realforce. I guess if you want to use software to remap it, then sure. I prefer ANSI, but I do have a few JIS models.

Yeah I realized, don't really have a problem with remapping and since all the keys stay in the same row you could even change the keycaps accordingly.

The physical layout is copied from 91U. Does it require remapping? Sure, but that's a very simple job for xkb/PKL/hasu's converter… I wouldn't want to use default US QWERTY on an ANSI layout either.

Have you used this? It looks great but upon second thought it might over use the index finger...

[davkol]

I use a very similar layout on my Phantom.

If you think pressing a few extra key with index fingers overloads them, consider (1) how common respective symbols are, (2) how much you use your pinkies (shorter, weaker) for the same task on a standard keyboard, and (3) if you can't simply ignore those keys and type respective symbols differently (Compose/layers), in which case this layout provides you more accessible thumb keys.

[_rubik]

yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.

Show Image

O.O ... That's a great idea.
Are you trying to convince me to buy a JIS realforce?

This just feels like an amalgamation of too many different layouts. The num row is ansi, the and surrounding keys are semi iso/jis. I'd say the bottom row is the only thing truly ISO. The problem with layouts like these for me is the lack of physical separation from the middle punctuation and the alphas. I feel like I'd overshoot them.

[dante]

For whatever reason I'm starting to enjoy the look of piss yellowed keyboards 

[a_ak57]

I can't say I understand the point of the fancy milled weights people put on the bottom of keyboards.  Like that Time TKL, the design is neat and all but you're paying more for something you will never see unless you're going to display it on-end and backwards or something.  I don't like most artisans but can at least understand their appeal, but I just can't wrap my head around the weight thing.

[xtrafrood]

I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

[a_ak57]

I get the basic idea of having a weight, but some people put the effort into designing ones that no doubt drive up the cost due to extra milling.  I'm sure it's not always a huge amount, but I imagine it's a considerable price increase for something like the Time TKL.

[zslane]

For the nutters who buy that kind of stuff, it's satisfying enough just to know that fancy bit of carved metal is there, even if they don't see it. From their perspective, they've collected a piece of art. Hidden art, but art nonetheless. Also, since not that many of those Time TKL things will be made, the "limited edition" aspect of it makes its owners feel all warm and fuzzy and special, like they're part of some exclusive club.

[Puddsy]

I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

untrue

it's completely an aesthetic thing

stability is more determined by the actual design of the board

clueboard and whitefox are two of the more stable boards i've used, whereas something like a jane or a fjell isn't remarkably better than either

i would argue plate mounting technique has more to do with the feel of the board than whether or not it has a weight

[nguyenhimself]

I can't say I understand the point of the fancy milled weights people put on the bottom of keyboards.  Like that Time TKL, the design is neat and all but you're paying more for something you will never see unless you're going to display it on-end and backwards or something.  I don't like most artisans but can at least understand their appeal, but I just can't wrap my head around the weight thing.

It depends on your mindset. For ex, Apple is known for spending extra time on making their unseen internals look neat and nice.

https://thenextweb.com/contributors/2017/11/19/how-to-prepare-for-the-cryptocurrency-revolution/

“For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.”

[xtrafrood]

I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

untrue

it's completely an aesthetic thing

stability is more determined by the actual design of the board

clueboard and whitefox are two of the more stable boards i've used, whereas something like a jane or a fjell isn't remarkably better than either

i would argue plate mounting technique has more to do with the feel of the board than whether or not it has a weight

I'm not an architect nor am I an engineer but couldn't a brass weight serve as a tuned mass damper (Taipei 101)? Certainly not constructed to prevent nausia during a bad earthquake but perhaps custom keyboard weights could work in a similar manner on a much smaller scale?

[iFreilicht]

I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame

JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

Blasphemy! Any spacebar below 11u is absolutely unusable

[dubious]

I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

untrue

it's completely an aesthetic thing

stability is more determined by the actual design of the board

clueboard and whitefox are two of the more stable boards i've used, whereas something like a jane or a fjell isn't remarkably better than either

i would argue plate mounting technique has more to do with the feel of the board than whether or not it has a weight

I'm not an architect nor am I an engineer but couldn't a brass weight serve as a tuned mass damper (Taipei 101)? Certainly not constructed to prevent nausia during a bad earthquake but perhaps custom keyboard weights could work in a similar manner on a much smaller scale?

I think those are usually mounted on springs or something that allows them to move, not bolted in rigidly

weights are best at being weighty

[xtrafrood]

I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

untrue

it's completely an aesthetic thing

stability is more determined by the actual design of the board

clueboard and whitefox are two of the more stable boards i've used, whereas something like a jane or a fjell isn't remarkably better than either

i would argue plate mounting technique has more to do with the feel of the board than whether or not it has a weight

I'm not an architect nor am I an engineer but couldn't a brass weight serve as a tuned mass damper (Taipei 101)? Certainly not constructed to prevent nausia during a bad earthquake but perhaps custom keyboard weights could work in a similar manner on a much smaller scale?

I think those are usually mounted on springs or something that allows them to move, not bolted in rigidly

weights are best at being weighty

Kinda. In my head the theory somewhat applies to small vibrations. So there it is I guess.

[dubious]

I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

untrue

it's completely an aesthetic thing

stability is more determined by the actual design of the board

clueboard and whitefox are two of the more stable boards i've used, whereas something like a jane or a fjell isn't remarkably better than either

i would argue plate mounting technique has more to do with the feel of the board than whether or not it has a weight

I'm not an architect nor am I an engineer but couldn't a brass weight serve as a tuned mass damper (Taipei 101)? Certainly not constructed to prevent nausia during a bad earthquake but perhaps custom keyboard weights could work in a similar manner on a much smaller scale?

I think those are usually mounted on springs or something that allows them to move, not bolted in rigidly

weights are best at being weighty

Kinda. In my head the theory somewhat applies to small vibrations. So there it is I guess.

I agree it is a good point, I think it does help with stability and the feels :

[rich1051414]

Weights would change the mass of the keyboard, and therefore, the frequencies it resonates at, potentially making the keyboard sound better, but I assume weights are USUALLY used in keyboards to make them not slide around as much

The first possible reason above is similar to the reasoning for mass dampers, but a totally different mechanism. Mass dampers are weights suspended by springs which cause destructive counter oscillations, keeping the building stable. Bolting weight onto a keyboard would change the frequencies that the keyboard will resonate at, making the keyboard sound different to type on.

[Puddsy]

Weights would change the mass of the keyboard, and therefore, the frequencies it resonates at, potentially making the keyboard sound better, but I assume weights are USUALLY used in keyboards to make them not slide around as much

The first possible reason above is similar to the reasoning for mass dampers, but a totally different mechanism. Mass dampers are weights suspended by springs which cause destructive counter oscillations, keeping the building stable. Bolting weight onto a keyboard would change the frequencies that the keyboard will resonate at, making the keyboard sound different to type on.

bumpons do more to keep keyboards from sliding around than weights

and without weight, most boards are heavy enough to get the bumpons to do their job

[rich1051414]

Weights would change the mass of the keyboard, and therefore, the frequencies it resonates at, potentially making the keyboard sound better, but I assume weights are USUALLY used in keyboards to make them not slide around as much

The first possible reason above is similar to the reasoning for mass dampers, but a totally different mechanism. Mass dampers are weights suspended by springs which cause destructive counter oscillations, keeping the building stable. Bolting weight onto a keyboard would change the frequencies that the keyboard will resonate at, making the keyboard sound different to type on.

bumpons do more to keep keyboards from sliding around than weights

and without weight, most boards are heavy enough to get the bumpons to do their job

Maybe. I have light keyboards that do have issues with sliding around.

[Rayoui]

I like the extra weight and solidity to the feel of a board with a weight. There's also just a coolness factor of knowing it's there.

Similarly, I have mechanical watches with decorated movements and solid casebacks. I will likely never see the movement, but I still like knowing there's some beautiful handiwork inside.

[Kavik]

ISO enter looks bad on fullsize and TKL but looks good on 60% and 65% for some reason.

[Krogenar]

1. I love a large keyboard and don't see the attraction for tiny, nano-sized keyboards. Give me a 122-key tank, thanks.
2. LED Backlighting -- really? Is this a keyboard or a f---ing disco? Feels like one of those 80's boomboxes, kind of pointless.
3. Buckling Springs are better (for me) than Topre, MX, etc. They're all fine, but BS feels the best.
4. People should buy and sell keyboards at whatever price suits the two parties -- that helps the hobby overall.
5. They were really overplaying that 'Despocito' song on the radio, glad they finally eased up.

[nogoodnames444]

I like cherry linear switches

[ander]

1. I love a large keyboard and don't see the attraction for tiny, nano-sized keyboards. Give me a 122-key tank, thanks.
2. LED Backlighting -- really? Is this a keyboard or a f---ing disco? Feels like one of those 80's boomboxes, kind of pointless.
3. Buckling Springs are better (for me) than Topre, MX, etc. They're all fine, but BS feels the best...

It's fun spotting a soul mate every now 'n' then.  :?)

[ander]

Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.

[Giorgio]

Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.


(Attachment Link)

This is so obvious that makes me worry that I didn't take this hobby seriously enough. Would anyone decide differently from you? Really?

[rich1051414]

Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.


(Attachment Link)

This is so obvious that makes me worry that I didn't take this hobby seriously enough. Would anyone decide differently from you? Really?

Natalie portman, the harvard graduate who also did this:

[DALExSNAIL]

Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.


(Attachment Link)

I mean, she isn't my type really, so I might not choose this. But you do you mane.

[ander]

I'd be a Space Cadet not to, actually.

[jdcarpe]

Natalie portman, the harvard graduate who also did this:

My favorite part:

"When I was at Harvard / I smoked weed every day / I cheated every test / I snorted all the yay"

[Altis]

Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.

What a ridiculous post.

As if any keyboard needs a coat and tie. 

[atarione]

some random gamer kid with a $30 red dragon thinks they are teh mechanical keyboard master race..

people with a $150 Filco kinda wish they have gotten a $500 Korean custom.. this hobby is stupid...

[HoffmanMyster]

1. I love a large keyboard and don't see the attraction for tiny, nano-sized keyboards. Give me a 122-key tank, thanks.
2. LED Backlighting -- really? Is this a keyboard or a f---ing disco? Feels like one of those 80's boomboxes, kind of pointless.
3. Buckling Springs are better (for me) than Topre, MX, etc. They're all fine, but BS feels the best.
4. People should buy and sell keyboards at whatever price suits the two parties -- that helps the hobby overall.
5. They were really overplaying that 'Despocito' song on the radio, glad they finally eased up.

Whoa, Krog is back!   

[bcredbottle]

.

[WhateverZYX]

1. Tactility needs to be sharp and compact and not drawn out like Topre or MX Clears, or I won't even know the point where the switch actually actuates. Even if the MX Blues sound ****ty, the tactility is one of the best.
2. Linear switches may feel nice when trying out, but are completely unusable for typing.
3. There is not one vintage keyboard that actually looks acceptable, and which I would want to put on my table.

[nogoodnames444]

topre doesn't feel better to me but different

[Kavik]

1. Tactility needs to be sharp and compact and not drawn out like Topre or MX Clears, or I won't even know the point where the switch actually actuates. Even if the MX Blues sound ****ty, the tactility is one of the best.
2. Linear switches may feel nice when trying out, but are completely unusable for typing.
3. There is not one vintage keyboard that actually looks acceptable, and which I would want to put on my table.

I agree with 1 and 2. Most tactile switches just feel bumpy and not really tactile to me. MX Blues just suck all around though. Linear switches are great for playing games and stuff, but I really tried to use linears at work, and it was maddening. I switched back to my Model M. Co-workers be damned.

[Kevadu]

Here's one:

Plastic is a perfectly acceptable material to make cases out of.  Thick high-quality plastic can be quite durable and frankly produces a better sound than most aluminum cases.

[Kavik]

Here's one:

Plastic is a perfectly acceptable material to make cases out of.  Thick high-quality plastic can be quite durable and frankly produces a better sound than most aluminum cases.

I was thinking about this the other day myself. It would be neat to see a GB for a really high quality plastic case. I suppose the initial investment would be higher since it would require custom mold(s) instead of a multi-purpose CNC machine.

[Zobeid Zuma]

Here's one:

Plastic is a perfectly acceptable material to make cases out of.  Thick high-quality plastic can be quite durable and frankly produces a better sound than most aluminum cases.

Plastic cases can be quite good.  They also can be quite bad, and that's what gives them the reputation.  (I have a Phantom TKL with BOX Navy switches in a standard plastic Filco case right now, and it sounds awful!)  There's also a huge difference between, for example, a milled acrylic case and an injection-molded ABS case, even though they are both "plastic".

[rich1051414]

Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.


(Attachment Link)

This is so obvious that makes me worry that I didn't take this hobby seriously enough. Would anyone decide differently from you? Really?

Natalie portman, the harvard graduate who also did this:

o.O

Ever get that feeling you are being watched?

[nogoodnames444]

I guess some of these opinions aren't that unpopular. Just less heard in the keyboard community...

1) HHKB is overpriced
2) Topre fanboys are getting way too excited about a keyboard that feels like a smoother rubberdome
(I will say I'm in the camp that loves the HHKB layout. It made me change the ctrl/caps lock keys on all my keyboards)

3) Rainbow colored keyboards look cheap and childish
4) Artisan caps, see #3

I agree and I think people just like the feeling of a smooth rubberdome I have a type heaven and it feels good. But topre is way too overpriced

[zslane]

Topre is only overpriced for those who can't afford them without spending time pondering their "value".

[Blaise170]

Topre is only overpriced for those who can't afford them without spending time pondering their "value".

I have keyboards worth far more than any Topre, but I still think it's overpriced. Subjective value of an item doesn't make an item pricier unless there is a limited supply. Topre would be priced far lower if people weren't willing to spend such high prices, similar to Blue Alps which are also way overpriced (even if they are subjectively one of the best clicky switches).

[Altis]

Topre is only overpriced for those who can't afford them without spending time pondering their "value".

I have 5 Topre boards + a numpad and I think they're overpriced in terms of how much they should cost.

However, I understand that they are a bit niche so you don't get the economy scaling of volume mass-production much.

But it's also difficult to really say whether or not something is of good "value" since value can be pretty subjective. The average person would probably think any keyboard over $20 is poor value. 

[DaBubbs]

But it's also difficult to really say whether or not something is of good "value" since value can be pretty subjective. The average person would probably think any keyboard over $20 is poor value. 

Very true and well put... although I would double your price to about $40.

I got just as many "why would you buy that?" comments from my friends and family about sub $80 keyboards as I have with my Topre boards.

[zslane]

Then don't dare tell them how much you paid for those artisans... 

This hobby can set you back a lot of money, and sometimes for the dumbest sh*t. Nothing is "overpriced" if you want it and can afford it. When somebody says a Topre Realforce board is overpriced, what they seem to be saying is that anyone who buys one got suckered, whereas what they are actually saying is that they are either unable to afford one, or unwilling to spend the money on one. That's a reflection of their personal circumstances, not a reflection of some objective truth about value.