About Classic Biege manufacturers

[findingthelimit]

Hey all! I'm interested in buying a classic beige set for my tenkeyless keyboard. However, I have some questions:

What is the difference between Originative and GMK?

Some stated that the Originative set has problems related to the stepped caps lock, that it doesn't fit on some boards (e.g. Poker II). Isn't the stem on stepped caps locks and non-stepped caps locks the same?

imsto is having a BSP PBT set that is up for grabs soon. Is this any different to the Originative Classic Beige set? It only has 102 keys, but if i buy a RGBY set, and an aftermarket space bar, does that mean all the keys will fit?

In the imsto's thread, http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57244.0 , some comments said this is "similar" to Cherry's "original" Classic Beige set. What does this mean? What is the "original" classic beige set? Isn't cherry just a company?

[intelli78]

- Originative is a hobbyist resale company. It distributes, it doesn't manufacture. GMK is a Germany company that made old Cherry doubleshot keycaps, and they continue to make them to this day. Originative carries GMK-made products, among many other things.

- Originative has sold 2 classic beige sets. One was GMK, double shot ABS, and is now out of stock. It works with standard boards like the Poker 2.  However, they also have a full PBT version of classic beige made by BSP. That set is only for winkeyless keyboards, and yes, a lot of mods and caps lock won't work with a Poker 2.

- Imsto's set is made by the same company as the Originative PBT classic beige set (BSP), except it has cyrillic legends. If you buy an RGBY set that has at least 7 1.25x mods and you get a 6.25 space bar and a non-stepped caps lock, you will have everything you need. It won't work out of the box.

The original classic beige set was a full-pbt keyset (not sure who made them). The BSP PBT sets are exact replicas of it. (maybe they said "similar" since the spacebar is missing and it has cyrillic) The doubleshot GMK version is a close copy, but doubleshot ABS instead of PBT, and has the right size modifiers for modern keyboards.

Hope that was all clear.

[intelli78]

(so, if you want a truly plug-and-play option for your TKL, you need to try to track down an Originative GMK doubleshot ABS set. Hard to find, though, and will cost you $$$)

[findingthelimit]

- Originative is a hobbyist resale company. It distributes, it doesn't manufacture. GMK is a Germany company that made old Cherry doubleshot keycaps, and they continue to make them to this day. Originative carries GMK-made products, among many other things.

- Originative has sold 2 classic beige sets. One was GMK, double shot ABS, and is now out of stock. It works with standard boards like the Poker 2.  However, they also have a full PBT version of classic beige made by BSP. That set is only for winkeyless keyboards, and yes, a lot of mods and caps lock won't work with a Poker 2.

- Imsto's set is made by the same company as the Originative PBT classic beige set (BSP), except it has cyrillic legends. If you buy an RGBY set that has at least 7 1.25x mods and you get a 6.25 space bar and a non-stepped caps lock, you will have everything you need. It won't work out of the box.

The original classic beige set was a full-pbt keyset (not sure who made them). The BSP PBT sets are exact replicas of it. (maybe they said "similar" since the spacebar is missing and it has cyrillic) The doubleshot GMK version is a close copy, but doubleshot ABS instead of PBT, and has the right size modifiers for modern keyboards.

Hope that was all clear.

That was really clear. Thanks a ton! Two follow up questions:

What do you mean by "doubleshot GMK version"? What does doubleshot mean? I thought it just refers to the method of printing font on the caps.

I'm thinking of buying IMSTO's set, with RGBY modifiers and a titanium space bar. However, I'm not so sure about the caps lock. Can you clarify why the caps lock wouldn't work? I thought both Winkey and Winkeyless keyboards come with 1.5x caps lock, so I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Again, thanks for the really clear response, really appreciate it.

[epzy]

"Isn't the stem on stepped caps locks and non-stepped caps locks the same?"

Nope, not necessarily. Some have off center stem positions and others have centered. Off center stems are most common on stepped caps locks.

[intelli78]

That was really clear. Thanks a ton! Two follow up questions:

What do you mean by "doubleshot GMK version"? What does doubleshot mean? I thought it just refers to the method of printing font on the caps.

I'm thinking of buying IMSTO's set, with RGBY modifiers and a titanium space bar. However, I'm not so sure about the caps lock. Can you clarify why the caps lock wouldn't work? I thought both Winkey and Winkeyless keyboards come with 1.5x caps lock, so I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Again, thanks for the really clear response, really appreciate it.

No problem. Doubleshot caps are made out of ABS material. The plastic for the legend and the rest of the key caps are injected together, so the legend is actually part of the cap itself. It will never wear away because of this. It's not printed. All GMK caps are doubleshot.

As epzy mentioned, the caps lock from Imsto's set won't work because the stem on the underside of the key is in the wrong place. It's shifted to the left of what you'd need for your keyboard, even though the width of the cap is the same.

[epzy]

Also, I should mention that you can modify the stepped, off center caps lock to become a stepped, center stem caps lock if you have the proper tools / skills, but I've heard it's a pain in the ass.

[findingthelimit]

That was really clear. Thanks a ton! Two follow up questions:

What do you mean by "doubleshot GMK version"? What does doubleshot mean? I thought it just refers to the method of printing font on the caps.

I'm thinking of buying IMSTO's set, with RGBY modifiers and a titanium space bar. However, I'm not so sure about the caps lock. Can you clarify why the caps lock wouldn't work? I thought both Winkey and Winkeyless keyboards come with 1.5x caps lock, so I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Again, thanks for the really clear response, really appreciate it.

No problem. Doubleshot caps are made out of ABS material. The plastic for the legend and the rest of the key caps are injected together, so the legend is actually part of the cap itself. It will never wear away because of this. It's not printed. All GMK caps are doubleshot.

As epzy mentioned, the caps lock from Imsto's set won't work because the stem on the underside of the key is in the wrong place. It's shifted to the left of what you'd need for your keyboard, even though the width of the cap is the same.

Cool. So Imsto's set is PBT, and is not doubleshot.

Do you know how I would go about finding the appropriate caps lock that goes with the set?

[epzy]

That was really clear. Thanks a ton! Two follow up questions:

What do you mean by "doubleshot GMK version"? What does doubleshot mean? I thought it just refers to the method of printing font on the caps.

I'm thinking of buying IMSTO's set, with RGBY modifiers and a titanium space bar. However, I'm not so sure about the caps lock. Can you clarify why the caps lock wouldn't work? I thought both Winkey and Winkeyless keyboards come with 1.5x caps lock, so I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Again, thanks for the really clear response, really appreciate it.

No problem. Doubleshot caps are made out of ABS material. The plastic for the legend and the rest of the key caps are injected together, so the legend is actually part of the cap itself. It will never wear away because of this. It's not printed. All GMK caps are doubleshot.

As epzy mentioned, the caps lock from Imsto's set won't work because the stem on the underside of the key is in the wrong place. It's shifted to the left of what you'd need for your keyboard, even though the width of the cap is the same.

Cool. So Imsto's set is PBT, and is not doubleshot.

Do you know how I would go about finding the appropriate caps lock that goes with the set?

Dyesub is used on high end PBT keycaps most of the time. If you want doubleshot PBT keycaps, Vortex would be your only option methinks.

[Puddsy]

Deck has doubleshot PBT as well but it's apparently awful.

[epzy]

But can you buy them separately? I think the Deck font is considered even worse than the Vortex font... Vortex fixed up their font a bit, but still looks pretty damn ugly, imo.

[Puddsy]

I agree with the font sentiment.

Doubleshot PBT is kinda silly considering dyesub PBT will last you as long as doubleshot ABS.

[intelli78]

That was really clear. Thanks a ton! Two follow up questions:

What do you mean by "doubleshot GMK version"? What does doubleshot mean? I thought it just refers to the method of printing font on the caps.

I'm thinking of buying IMSTO's set, with RGBY modifiers and a titanium space bar. However, I'm not so sure about the caps lock. Can you clarify why the caps lock wouldn't work? I thought both Winkey and Winkeyless keyboards come with 1.5x caps lock, so I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Again, thanks for the really clear response, really appreciate it.

No problem. Doubleshot caps are made out of ABS material. The plastic for the legend and the rest of the key caps are injected together, so the legend is actually part of the cap itself. It will never wear away because of this. It's not printed. All GMK caps are doubleshot.

As epzy mentioned, the caps lock from Imsto's set won't work because the stem on the underside of the key is in the wrong place. It's shifted to the left of what you'd need for your keyboard, even though the width of the cap is the same.

Cool. So Imsto's set is PBT, and is not doubleshot.

Do you know how I would go about finding the appropriate caps lock that goes with the set?

Right. It is not doubleshot. The legends are dye sublimated, which is another extremely resilient technique that does not fade.

Unfortunately, I do not know where to get a caps lock, other than breaking up a GMK classic beige set and having mixed plastics. I have the Originative BSP set and I have the same problem. I wouldn't even mind mixing the plastics, except there is almost no prospect for finding that cap alone.

You don't want to mess with these Deck/Vortex things, IMO, the color and legend and profile will be a huge mismatch. It will not be a nice way to finish the set.

Hopefully, someone will run a group buy for a classic beige set soon, and will offer a caps lock as an option (and 1.75x shift while they're at it).

In fact, I am going to create an interest check right now.

[Pacifist]

and doubleshot PBT has bleed problems, both vortex and sp doubleshot PBT experience it in varying forms

[findingthelimit]

That was really clear. Thanks a ton! Two follow up questions:

What do you mean by "doubleshot GMK version"? What does doubleshot mean? I thought it just refers to the method of printing font on the caps.

I'm thinking of buying IMSTO's set, with RGBY modifiers and a titanium space bar. However, I'm not so sure about the caps lock. Can you clarify why the caps lock wouldn't work? I thought both Winkey and Winkeyless keyboards come with 1.5x caps lock, so I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Again, thanks for the really clear response, really appreciate it.

No problem. Doubleshot caps are made out of ABS material. The plastic for the legend and the rest of the key caps are injected together, so the legend is actually part of the cap itself. It will never wear away because of this. It's not printed. All GMK caps are doubleshot.

As epzy mentioned, the caps lock from Imsto's set won't work because the stem on the underside of the key is in the wrong place. It's shifted to the left of what you'd need for your keyboard, even though the width of the cap is the same.

Cool. So Imsto's set is PBT, and is not doubleshot.

Do you know how I would go about finding the appropriate caps lock that goes with the set?

Right. It is not doubleshot. The legends are dye sublimated, which is another extremely resilient technique that does not fade.

Unfortunately, I do not know where to get a caps lock, other than breaking up a GMK classic beige set and having mixed plastics. I have the Originative BSP set and I have the same problem. I wouldn't even mind mixing the plastics, except there is almost no prospect for finding that cap alone.

You don't want to mess with these Deck/Vortex things, IMO, the color and legend and profile will be a huge mismatch. It will not be a nice way to finish the set.

Hopefully, someone will run a group buy for a classic beige set soon, and will offer a caps lock as an option (and 1.75x shift while they're at it).

In fact, I am going to create an interest check right now.

Cool! When you say "I will run a group buy for a classic beige set", I assume that would eventually end up in the Group Buys section in GH. Do the group buys ever have dyesub PBT caps? I feel like they are usually abs with OEM or SP profile, and I'm not the biggest fan. Does your interested check also fall under the laser etched ABS / OEM profile categorization?

[Puddsy]

Ivan runs PBT group buys every few months (and GMK ones as well). He should be starting one "soon" after the current one ships.

Also, intelli isn't running a GB, he's gauging interest for a GB. Nothing is set yet.

[intelli78]

See here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57637.0

[tbc]

the point of DS pbt is to get a variety of legend colors, not just darker legends.