Cherry MX Clears vs Cherry MX Blues vs Ergo Clears

[deazncy]

Hello everybody, I'm planning to buy a FC660C as soon as I am able to find a seller, but I had a question if, hypothetically, I did not enjoy Topre switches. I love the tactility of blue switches, but not the noise, and I don't feel the tactility enough in mx browns, so I was thinking about trying mx clears. But I've read that clears may be too stiff for many people; I'm typing on mx blacks right now and I don't have much of a problem with its actuation force. Will I have a problem typing on clears? If so, I will most likely mod them into ergo clears.

Could you guys compare blues, clears, and ergo clears? Also, would it be easier to mod a mx clear board into ergo clears (purchase springs), or would it be easier to buy a mx blue/brown/red board and mod it into ergo clears (purchase clear stems). Lastly, could you guys link me to some 60% pcb-mounted mx clear boards? I would rather prefer not to desolder/resolder, but I will if it is really necessary.

[jabar]

Pokers and Pures are your 60% PCB-mounted choices. Since neither are offered in Clears, if you were interested in the Ergo Clear mod, your best bet would be to procure Clears through a supplier, or find a cheap BL-82 donor board (NB most are Blacks but some are Clear) and separately buy springs/buy the 60% with Browns.

The tactile switches are the quietest MX switch (not saying much, as they are still considerably noisier than Topre). For me I don't have a clear preference although I do prefer Clears over Browns.

[Photoelectric]

Blues have a very clean snappy bump accompanied by a click.  Clears have a rather long bump and no click.  They feel very different.  The bump on Clears is a period of prolonged increased resistance.  The bump is more pronounced (lasts longer) the lighter the included spring is.  On the way down, pressing the key, the bump is fast, but when the key is popping back up, you feel a longer delay.  And that delay is more pronounced with lighter springs vs stiffer, which rebound faster.  Hence why you hear about "sticky" Clears with light springs and the need to lubricate.  I was personally surprised by the long bump.

So the short story is: clears are not like Blues.  And a more pronounced bump =/= stiffer rubber dome like "quick" bump.  And finally, Clears are not terribly stiff at stock.  Like a rubber dome toward the stiffer side of the spectrum.  But nothing extreme.  Coming from Browns, the stiffness of Clears wasn't a shock.

[deazncy]

@Jabar - thanks for you reply and input. Hopefully a pcb-mounted version of the poker ii gets released soon.

@Photoelectric - thanks for the detailed explanation; are there any switches that feel similar to blues, but without the noisiness?

[Photoelectric]

Apparently MX White with a lighter spring.  I'm interested in trying that out myself, as I do really like Blues.

[Jocelyn]

Ergo whites are quieter than blues, but they still click and make noise. When I tried a few ergo whites, I found the sound  to not be uniform among switches and this really turned me off, but then I'm OCD about this sort of thing

[deazncy]

@Photoelectric - Are Korean 62g springs slightly heavier than blue springs? If so, I might try that if I do decide to go ergo.

@Jocelyn - Even with o-rings?

[balanar]

A switch that has that awesome feel of blues without the noise would be perfect for me.

For anyone that has tried both, are stock white noisier than ergo whites or vice versa?

[Photoelectric]

Jocelyn: More noise than Clears or about the same?  Clears are noticeably louder than my Browns (sounding a bit clunky). 

Deaz: Yes, the 62g spring is slightly heavier than that found in MX Blues.i was told White is noticeably quieter than Blue.

[deazncy]

Jocelyn: More noise than Clears or about the same?  Clears are noticeably louder than my Browns (sounding a bit clunky). 

Deaz: Yes, the 62g spring is slightly heavier than that found in MX Blues.i was told White is noticeably quieter than Blue.

I think the 62g springs would be perfect; just that extra push to prevent sticking. I think that might be what I aim for if I ever do decide on ergo-clears.

[Jocelyn]

@Photoelectric - Are Korean 62g springs slightly heavier than blue springs? If so, I might try that if I do decide to go ergo.

@Jocelyn - Even with o-rings?

Yes, because they still click like blues. The click is just a little softer, but it still happens and is audible

Jocelyn: More noise than Clears or about the same?  Clears are noticeably louder than my Browns (sounding a bit clunky). 

Deaz: Yes, the 62g spring is slightly heavier than that found in MX Blues.i was told White is noticeably quieter than Blue.

Absolutely, due to the click. Clears make no click, so whites are definitely louder. My ergo clears are lubed and are basically silent other than bottom out noise, but bottoming out noise is not the switch.

PS - I don't really bottom out

[deazncy]

@Photoelectric - Are Korean 62g springs slightly heavier than blue springs? If so, I might try that if I do decide to go ergo.

@Jocelyn - Even with o-rings?

Yes, because they still click like blues. The click is just a little softer, but it still happens and is audible

Jocelyn: More noise than Clears or about the same?  Clears are noticeably louder than my Browns (sounding a bit clunky). 

Deaz: Yes, the 62g spring is slightly heavier than that found in MX Blues.i was told White is noticeably quieter than Blue.

Absolutely, due to the click. Clears make no click, so whites are definitely louder. My ergo clears are lubed and are basically silent other than bottom out noise, but bottoming out noise is not the switch.

PS - I don't really bottom out

What springs are you using? And do you like them?

[Photoelectric]

Great! I suppose lubricating makes a huge difference then.  I really need to get some lube for your 4 switches and pay more with them   Ill check my local car shops tomorrow.

[Jocelyn]

What springs are you using? And do you like them?

With my ergo clears? 62g gold springs, but I plan to go lighter with 50g and 55g springs in two different GH60s. Yes I enjoy them A LOT, and for ergo clears, I would recommend 60g or higher if you plan to game at all and not below 60g unless it's a typing only keyboard. This is all of course personal opinion and something Larken helped me figure out. This post by him is something I already kinda knew, but he summed it up better and it helped me understand my own feelings on the matter a little better lol.

Larken's Post - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43374.msg898295#msg898295

I've tried every light switch (red/blue/brown/ergo white, etc.)

Great! I suppose lubricating makes a huge difference then.  I really need to get some lube for your 4 switches and pay more with them   Ill check my local car shops tomorrow.

Yes! Typing on non lubed switches feels like trash to me now. It's tedious and takes a long time, but it's worth it.

[deazncy]

What springs are you using? And do you like them?

With my ergo clears? 62g gold springs, but I plan to go lighter with 50g and 55g springs in two different GH60s. Yes I enjoy them A LOT, and for ergo clears, I would recommend 60g or higher if you plan to game at all and not below 60g unless it's a typing only keyboard. This is all of course personal opinion and something Larken helped me figure out. This post by him is something I already kinda knew, but he summed it up better and it helped me understand my own feelings on the matter a little better lol.

Larken's Post - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43374.msg898295#msg898295

I've tried every light switch (red/blue/brown/ergo white, etc.)

Great! I suppose lubricating makes a huge difference then.  I really need to get some lube for your 4 switches and pay more with them   Ill check my local car shops tomorrow.

Yes! Typing on non lubed switches feels like trash to me now. It's tedious and takes a long time, but it's worth it.

Thanks for your input!

I think I have a pretty good understanding of ergo-clears now

[Larken]

Jocelyn: More noise than Clears or about the same?  Clears are noticeably louder than my Browns (sounding a bit clunky). 

Technically, clears and browns are silent switches. What you're hearing is basically the bottom out noises, which is affected by a variety of factors:
plate, case design, keycap profile, thickness etc. Switch type is a factor, yes, but its not the main cause of the noise, but rather a result of typing style.

I reuploaded a mp3 file of me typing on ergoclears on my ergodox http://www.filedropper.com/dscf0478
The initial click is from a logitech g9x, to serve as a guide for how loud your speakers should be.

FWIW, I don't bottom out much either. But when I do, the sound of my filco browns are louder and more unpleasant in comparison to those belonging to my clears.

Blues and whites would be infinitely more noisy given that the switches inherently click, and then there also the bottoming out. In practical use, clicky switches will always be noisier in comparison, unless you float type clicky switches and hulk smash your silent tactiles.

What springs are you using? And do you like them?

 This post by him is something I already kinda knew, but he summed it up better and it helped me understand my own feelings on the matter a little better lol.

Therapisted. 

[Moomoo]

Just my 2 cents, I am using panda clears ATM (clear stems, 62g springs) and to be honest it feels like sex on my fingers. It is so nice, I've used linear switches for a very long time and thought I'd give this a go and to be honest I don't know its just so nice. Which reminds me that I should most likely not buy a Topre else I would sell all my cherry goodies.

[Photoelectric]

Jocelyn: More noise than Clears or about the same?  Clears are noticeably louder than my Browns (sounding a bit clunky). 

Technically, clears and browns are silent switches. What you're hearing is basically the bottom out noises, which is affected by a variety of factors:
plate, case design, keycap profile, thickness etc. Switch type is a factor, yes, but its not the main cause of the noise, but rather a result of typing style.

I reuploaded a mp3 file of me typing on ergoclears on my ergodox http://www.filedropper.com/dscf0478
The initial click is from a logitech g9x, to serve as a guide for how loud your speakers should be.

FWIW, I don't bottom out much either. But when I do, the sound of my filco browns are louder and more unpleasant in comparison to those belonging to my clears.

Blues and whites would be infinitely more noisy given that the switches inherently click, and then there also the bottoming out. In practical use, clicky switches will always be noisier in comparison, unless you float type clicky switches and hulk smash your silent tactiles.

The noise I described is not from bottoming out, which I don't do much myself, even on lighter browns.  The actual bump area and overcoming it has a bit of a clunky sound associated with it.  That's what prompted my disappointment. I can also hear the bump area in a browns, but it's much quieter than it is with Clears.  In other words, vs a Black switch, Browns make some relatively quiet noise, and stock clears make significantly more noise--before bottoming out. 

[CPTBadAss]

A switch that has that awesome feel of blues without the noise would be perfect for me.

For anyone that has tried both, are stock white noisier than ergo whites or vice versa?

@Photoelectric - thanks for the detailed explanation; are there any switches that feel similar to blues, but without the noisiness?

Whites are definitely not as noisy as Blues. I love them. Jocelyn is correct though, they do still have a click and make noise. Stock whites are actually quieter than ergo-whites. For some reason, they "soft click" seems to go away if you use 62g springs. It's fine with 65g and Black springs though.

[Photoelectric]

That confused me With 62g springs and under, MX Whites don't give a clicking sound anymore?  And with 65g and above, they do?  I may have misread it, but that's how it appears.  If so, why are the stock Whites quieter then if they have the click vs lighter Whites without the click? 

[CPTBadAss]

So Whites have a soft muffled click with the stock springs. When I swap in 62g springs, the click feels exactly like an MX Blue. It's not muffled or soft anymore. It's sharp and loud.

With 65g springs, MX Black springs, and the stock MX White springs, the switches retain their soft muffled click.

62g, 65g, Black, and White springs in MX Whites are all clicky though. Is that clearer?

[Photoelectric]

Yes, thank you!  I was going off what someone told me about swapping in lighter springs and still retaining the quieter click vs MX Blue.  But I guess you can't go TOO light.

[Larken]

Jocelyn: More noise than Clears or about the same?  Clears are noticeably louder than my Browns (sounding a bit clunky). 

Technically, clears and browns are silent switches. What you're hearing is basically the bottom out noises, which is affected by a variety of factors:
plate, case design, keycap profile, thickness etc. Switch type is a factor, yes, but its not the main cause of the noise, but rather a result of typing style.

I reuploaded a mp3 file of me typing on ergoclears on my ergodox http://www.filedropper.com/dscf0478
The initial click is from a logitech g9x, to serve as a guide for how loud your speakers should be.

FWIW, I don't bottom out much either. But when I do, the sound of my filco browns are louder and more unpleasant in comparison to those belonging to my clears.

Blues and whites would be infinitely more noisy given that the switches inherently click, and then there also the bottoming out. In practical use, clicky switches will always be noisier in comparison, unless you float type clicky switches and hulk smash your silent tactiles.

The noise I described is not from bottoming out, which I don't do much myself, even on lighter browns.  The actual bump area and overcoming it has a bit of a clunky sound associated with it.  That's what prompted my disappointment. I can also hear the bump area in a browns, but it's much quieter than it is with Clears.  In other words, vs a Black switch, Browns make some relatively quiet noise, and stock clears make significantly more noise--before bottoming out. 

I'm sorry I don't have anything else useful to add here, but I have to say its really remarkable you can hear browns and clears actuating. I didn't think that was even possible, but you must have really sharp ears.

[CPTBadAss]

Great, glad that helped . I'm going to be writing a review soon with my thoughts on all Cherry switches (but Greens) with swapped springs. I have 62g, 65g and MX Black springs to play with

[Photoelectric]

Ok, I have made a sound recording to show what I mean about MX Clears having loud actuation.  I tried to not bottom out any of the switches except where demonstrating bottoming out loudness level.

I have 4 MX Clear switches I've been playing with, and that clanky click is audible for every one of them. The click you hear is not from bottoming out--it's the bump.  They are definitely not quiet switches at stock.

[Jocelyn]

Great, glad that helped . I'm going to be writing a review soon with my thoughts on all Cherry switches (but Greens) with swapped springs. I have 62g, 65g and MX Black springs to play with

Please do a comparison using lubed switches.

Ok, I have made a sound recording to show what I mean about MX Clears having loud actuation.  I tried to not bottom out any of the switches except where demonstrating bottoming out loudness level.

I have 4 MX Clear switches I've been playing with, and that clanky click is audible for every one of them. The click you hear is not from bottoming out--it's the bump.  They are definitely not quiet switches at stock.

The clears I sent you were used and from Taobao. My guess is that's playing a role in sound. I've lubed the same batch of used clears and mine don't make any kind of sound like that.

[CPTBadAss]

Great, glad that helped . I'm going to be writing a review soon with my thoughts on all Cherry switches (but Greens) with swapped springs. I have 62g, 65g and MX Black springs to play with

Please do a comparison using lubed switches.

Don't have lube so I can't

Edit: I will do an review without lube for now and if/when I get a hold of some, I'll add more thoughts with lubed switches later.

[Lbeuol]

I have to say I feel pretty weird listening to key sounds on youtube, had to look around to see if anyone saw me.

[Photoelectric]

The clears I sent you were used and from Taobao. My guess is that's playing a role in sound. I've lubed the same batch of used clears and mine don't make any kind of sound like that.

Thank you--that confirms how big of a role lubrication plays!!  I'll definitely be testing after lubing

I have to say I feel pretty weird listening to key sounds on youtube, had to look around to see if anyone saw me.

Haha   Sorry!

[davkol]

My stock clears (and browns) do lightly click as well, I can confirm that. Most of them are almost new, though, which means they probably won't lose the sound after breaking in.