Author Topic: :enchanted:  (Read 2154 times)

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Offline ferociousfingerings

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:enchanted:
« on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 13:45:47 »
"..."
"wowww..."

As though i've discovered the (not so) secret entry to the keyboard-inati. Or like... the type-lars... and there's even some dragons. ^^


After spending a few days lurking, exploring and drooling, and subsequently shopping... i realized i should sign up.

This resulting intro thread, which is being typed on a regrettably horrible, dirty, standard layout HP... i hope will be one of the last few things i ever have to type on a non-mech.

I had a low profile scissor switch logitech, which was... okay... i guess... (though it suffered from "keybind," where hitting the edge of the key would cause the mechanism to "bind," preventing activation) but had to trade it off... IIRC, because of some strange PS2/USB issue, in order to have functioning keyboards for more than one system. Since then, i've been stuck with this. The best thing about it is that it works, and i like that it has an "email" button that opens my client with a single press. Not much to like about a keyboard, i know. :P

For years... i've been superficially "aware" of mechanical boards, but i guess i never really cared all that much, as i was too busy fancying myself a "gamer," and being lulled by "macro buttons" and "features."

I was -->||<-- this close to pulling the trigger on a g510 refurb (mostly because of the macros and backlighting... and i liked the idea of a volume roller control...)

But then i started thinking... and started looking around...

And this... place... this haven... is what i found.

And now i'm wondering just what i've gotten myself into. lol.


I like MMO's (ie: AO, AoC, SWTOR, TSW, etc.), sometimes shooters (nexuiz/xonotic, APB:R -which is sort of a mix of various game-types-)... certain racing games... and anything with outrageous amounts of "gore" and "gibs."
I'm a wanna-be writer, a wanna-be web-developer, a wanna-be-someday programmer, a water-cooled overclocker, and a mostly-metal guitar player, with many years of experience... though these days i spend far more time on the keys than the strings.

I'm also a bit of a "modder" by nature. I tend to mod (or at least have ideas and the desire to do so) almost everything i acquire, in some way. My guitar is a "custom" LTD M-200FM, with SD blackouts, with an added 2nd volume control, for independent adjustment (for any guitarists out there... i use "LTHB" 10-52's and have been playing in "Drop-C" for about 2 years, after using "E-standard" most of my life). Usually, i have trouble finding anything "pre-made," that's exactly what i want. Usually, i have to find something "close enough" that can be modded to achieve the remainder of my desires.


And so... knowing i plan to spend a rather large portion of the remainder of my life, either typing or gaming (often both; see "MMO's")...

I decided i should probably invest in a high-quality input device, to increase my enjoyment of something i'll do quite a lot, and also to perhaps reduce the potential of RSI (since i seem to be rather prone to it).

I would love a "perfect" mini board... and i've seen quite a few that appeal to me (in almost every way)... such as the Race, the Choc Mini, the Pure... but i worry a bit about the accessibility of the "Fn" keys. When i write, i do lots of ctrl+shift+arrowkey, for editing. I wouldn't want to either lose, or complicate that functionality. I saw another "soon to be" mini board, recently, on these very forums, that basically combined the home-cluster and the tenkey... and while i think that's a fantastic "idea," i wonder about it's potential caveats in practice.

That said; i am so used to the "standard layout," that i'm not sure if i can deal with switching. I might be stuck with the off-center strain risks.

So... if i end up going for a "full size" board, i'd want it to have "features" (ie: nighthawk x9). How difficult would it be to swap LED's on one of those? I'd prefer not paying as much as maxkeyboard wants to charge for a full LED customization... though i think it would be "pretty great" to have such a custom. Alternatively: how "hard" would it be, to customize say... a KBT Race, in such a way? (ie: different color LED's strategically placed on one board)


Due mostly to my guitar and crappy-keyboard background, i type like "nanu: destroyer of keys." lol. Ok, maybe not quite that bad... but sometimes when i really get into it, or if i'm writing something frustrating, or out of frustration, i tend to beat the "bejesus" out of my keys.

For this reason, i think i would most likely prefer something somewhat "sturdy," with higher resistance switches, combined with o-rings... and i have a feeling that anything "too clicky" (ie: mx blues) might annoy me. I'm thinking i'll probably want mx blacks... though the idea of improving my typing, has lead me to consider that i'd most likely develop a preference for browns... or maybe even "clears."

I am also enthralled by quality backlighting... and i hate "backlight-bleed." In an ideal scenario, the backlight would only illuminate the legends... and be completely without back or side-bleed. Perhaps there is some sort of "mod" that can achieve this? I've already been thinking about it, before i even know which board i'll end up with.


Anyway...

Hi. :)

Maybe you guys can dump some knowledge on me, to help me decide which "one board to rule them all" i should acquire?
Logitech G710+

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: :enchanted:
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 14:10:25 »

Maybe you guys can dump some knowledge on me, to help me decide which "one board to rule them all" i should acquire?
Your first lesson at Geekhack is this:

ONE IS NEVER ENOUGH!!!!

Your second lesson at Geekhack: GET USED TO BEING COMPLETELY BROKE DUE TO BUYING KEYBOARDS/KEYBOARD ACCESSORIES.

Keeping those two things in mind, enjoy your stay!  ;D
« Last Edit: Thu, 20 September 2012, 14:18:24 by Computer-Lab in Basement »
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

IBM Model M SSK | IBM Model F XT | IBM Model F 122 | IBM Model M 122 | Ducky YOTD 2012 w/ blue switches | Poker II w/ Blue switches | Royal Kludge RK61 w/ Blue switches

Offline ferociousfingerings

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Re: :enchanted:
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 14:49:32 »
lol.

Yeah... as a "water-cooled overclocker" and "guitarist," i'm already used to being completely broke. ;)

However...

Rather than invest in several boards which all lack something another has...

I'd rather go broke building one unique, custom-super-board!

Or, rather, one of each layout... perhaps two of each layout...

Wait...

Uh oh.  :eek:
Logitech G710+

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: :enchanted:
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 15:57:15 »
Lol, exactly my point...

But unfortunately for you, if you are looking for "the perfect keyboard" with the "perfect switch", I am sorry to tell you that no such thing exists.  Every mechanical switch type has something undesirable about it.  Example, buckling springs might be the best feeling switches out there (at least they are IMO) but they are really, really loud.  MX black switches are nice and heavy, but provide no tactile feedback.  MX browns are too light and not tactile enough for my tastes.  Pretty much, every switch type has its pros and cons.  Find one that you find almost perfect and stick with it.  For me it's either MX Blues or buckling springs.

Good luck finding your "almost perfect" keyboard!
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

IBM Model M SSK | IBM Model F XT | IBM Model F 122 | IBM Model M 122 | Ducky YOTD 2012 w/ blue switches | Poker II w/ Blue switches | Royal Kludge RK61 w/ Blue switches

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: :enchanted:
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 16:01:09 »
Sounds like you would like clears man.

Offline ferociousfingerings

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Re: :enchanted:
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 16:49:44 »
Ultimately, i'm looking for something compact and functional, as moddable as possible, that i can comfortably and efficiently use for pretty much everything.

I like the idea of "mini" boards, due to the ability to keep the left hand and mouse at a reasonably-close-to-centered angle... but those without the F-row worry me... even though they look pretty elegant, and i'm an admitted fan of minimalism. I need the F-keys for things, fairly often. Alternatively, the F-row being too close to the number row, i could see causing issues with "fat-fingering" the number-row during gaming.

Enter backlighting.

Not that i don't know where most of my keys are, but aside from the superficial aesthetic appearance preference, the peripheral vision enhancement of backlighting would certainly help me when my hand is in a non-standard, non-typing position. I've tried "esdf," but it just doesn't feel right. I've tried "pinky-drag," but it's just not accurate enough. As a guitarist, my left hand is rather flexible, and i can "ctrl+7" fairly comfortably, but it's obviously not nearly as quick as having a single key directly next to home-row... and 8 and beyond are just too far.

What i have been wondering about backlighting (ok, several things, actually), is how logitech manages to stuff "RGB" lighting under their keys. Is that a "benefit" of their non-mech switches? Are there LED's out there somewhere that are actually RGB, contained in a single housing, the same size of what is found in most mech backlits? I could have sworn i had seen "RGB" LED's, whiles ago... but i'm not sure. I wouldn't want to just "assume" that no such thing exists, but i kinda doubt it, and A) i haven't looked hard enough yet, and B) i'm kinda getting ahead of myself anyway.

Does logitech use 3 LED's under each key? (g13, g19, g510, etc.)

I think it would be rather awesome, to be able to select your backlight color on a mech board.


I also think it would be pretty great to have dual backlighting, with blank-print back-lit faces, as well as back-lit sides... and to be able to choose which lights you want showing, and their colors (perhaps even individually).

From all i've read so far, it seems that the cherry mx switch-housings are unable to accommodate such a feature... but i don't know enough to rule it out. I also don't yet know enough to accomplish such a feat(ure), should the way to do so actually exist.


But yeah. I want a board that's great for typing and gaming, and i bet i'm a little harder on my keys than most people. I do, however, also have an appreciation for the nuances of "action" and "actuation," due to spending so many years gaming and playing guitar. So, i figure... mini or full... either way, i want something "solid" that i can mod, preferably already with backlighting that can at least be changed, with "minimal" effort (at least, "minimal" compared to other boards).

Honestly... i'd like to multi-color LED-mod a Race... or a Pure... but the "weird" caps on the Race are a little inhibiting... and in the pictures, the thing just looks so delicate!

As for the tenkey... i find myself using it often, but it's not entirely necessary. The only thing i really don't like about the tenkey (same with home cluster) is that it's "in the way," where i feel my mouse should be.

I do use my arrows a lot though... so i wouldn't want to have to hold an Fn key, just to be able to use arrows.

Anyway...

Yeah. I'm so tempted to pull the trigger on that purple-led race from qtan... but there's a few things telling me it's probably not exactly what i want... and that maybe i should wait.

I also saw that a backlit noppoo choc mini does exist... but the caps were "sketchy," and i have no idea where to get one, or if it would be worth the hassle. I'd guess it's probably in the same price range as the Race, so... idk. What i dislike about the choc mini layout, is that the F-row is aligned directly above the number-row, which i feel would be even more "difficult" for avoiding "fat-finger" accidents with numbers.

So yeah. I need something "close enough" for now, that can later be LED modded. Or sooner. lol.

Or, i need to wait and see what's about to become available very soon, and somehow barely manage to tolerate my current horrible HP board, until then. :P
Logitech G710+

Offline rowdy

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Re: :enchanted:
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 17:26:08 »
Welcome to Geekhack!

Unfortunately no-one can tell you what your ideal keyboard is.  What one person likes, another might hate.

If you can try a few different keyboards at a local retailer, you might get a feeling for what type of switch you like best.

The other option is to buy a board that sounds good and use it for a while.  If you feel something is lacking, buy a different one (there goes the wallet!) and if you prefer the second one, you can always sell the first one in Classifieds.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline ferociousfingerings

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Re: :enchanted:
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 19:45:31 »
^ Exactly.

I have lots of ideas about what my "ideal" board would be... but there are still some uncertainties.

And, like pretty much everything else i ever want, "ideal" never seems to be available.

I can see myself eventually acquiring several... but first, i want one that covers the most bases, and gives the most justifiable basis for having it.

I like several models i've seen... but if it came down to a gun at my head, forcing me to choose, right this second, i'd go with: Race, Black, Purple Backlit.

I also like the pure, the ducky's, the filco's, the choc mini's, the leopolds... and the maxkeyboard nighthawk x9 (yes, i know... but the ones from maxkeyboard seem nice).

My trigger finger is itching...
Logitech G710+

Offline rowdy

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Re: :enchanted:
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 19:57:22 »
Your wallet is probably itching too, by the sound of it ;)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: :enchanted:
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 21 September 2012, 08:34:39 »
Welcome. Hope you find a keyboard that suits you soon :D
KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.