geekhack Marketplace > Group Buys and Preorders
Introducing the "MK Vendor Trust and Safety System" for Group Buys
HoffmanMyster:
Hey everyone, big announcement to share with y'all today. A cross-platform team including representatives from r/mk, r/mm, MGB, and geekhack (with feedback and insight from a whole host of other community members - huge thanks to all that contributed, listed in the below linked doc) has put together what we hope will serve as a useful tool for hobbyists looking for reputable vendors in the mechanical keyboard space. This is a particularly tough nut to crack, and the system is not 100% perfect today; however, we are confident that with continued input and feedback it can mature into a useful system for all.
We are pleased to announce the initial launch of a new system that is intended to improve trust and transparency of vendors running keyboard and keyset group buys.
The current version of the MK Trust and Safety System is available at: http://www.mktrust.org/
This system is a community-driven effort, relying on vendors, consumers, platforms and streamers to report and maintain vendor GB status and commitments.
geekhack is supporting this initiative by requiring that:
* All vendors who want to promote a group buy (as defined in the system) must have a rating
* Vendors can promote a maximum # of group buys based on their rating limit
There will be a grace period of 30 days from today, for vendors to submit their information for rating before these rules are enforced. After December 8, 2023, new GB posts from vendors who have not submitted their information for rating via this system will not be approved. Instructions for vendors to submit their information for rating are available at mktrust.org.
Any community member or vendor can also report any issues with vendors or submit feedback on the system using forms available at mktrust.org.
Please join us in supporting this initiative. It will continue to evolve through feedback and lessons learned. We hope that it helps to increase vendor trust and provide useful information to the community as it continues to grow.
Discussion between rmendis and TaehaTypes regarding the new system:
Feel free to share any thoughts and feedback below (in addition to submitting via the form) to allow others to engage in discussion and workshop any improvements as a collective.
Edit: Added rmendis/Taeha video
farlig:
Great initiative, I hope this all works out to hopefully help prevent or minimize scams in the future.
mk:
Great initiative, and quite exhaustive.
There are a few things in the document that are quite unclear.
The definition of a group buy according to the document:
--- Quote ---Group Buy (GB) = Sale mechanism based on prepayment model for future delivery of a product, where a certain order quantity must be reached before the order is placed. For the purposes of these ratings, a GB must be at least 250 MoQ for keysets and 50 MoQ for keyboards across all participating vendors (eg. lead vendor + regional proxies).
--- End quote ---
For running group buys / pre-orders for "low"-quantity keyboards/keycaps, switches, deskmats or other things:
* Does this mean, that they can be advertised without it counting towards the GB limit?
* If not, can they still be allowed to be advertised as a proxy vendor for these without it counting towards the GB limit?
* Does it mean, that they will not count towards fulfilled group buys once delivered?
--- Quote ---Made to Order (MTO) = or "Rolling Fulfillment" is an ongoing sale that could last for several months or longer, during which time customers can purchase a customized version of the product to be fulfilled within a specific time. For the purposes of this system, these types of sales are treated as a single GB for each MTO product.
--- End quote ---
* Can a "group" of different but similar products be advertised? (i.e. plate cutting and case printing?) with it only counting as one GB?
* How will this count towards fulfilled GBs? (x deliveries etc?)
As the title of the system is "MK Vendor Trust and Safety System" and the group buys are only mentioned in the subtitle, there is a chance it may mislead some customers to believe a C-rated vendor that primarily sells in-stock items is untrustworthy. The C-rated vendor only has a rating as they want to be allowed to promote their store on one of the collaborating platforms. As the rating cannot improve without successful GBs, it may encourage the vendor to either run products as pre-orders / MTO in order to boost their trust rating, rather than selling in-stock items. (Not unlike how Americans take out a loan for a car rather than buying it with the cash they have on hand, in order to boost their credit-rating)
* Are there any plans to be able to increase trust rating by being a reliable in-stock vendor?
* Will participating networks/partners be encouraged to disclose that it is a Group Buy Trust System when referencing the system?
carlanthony:
--- Quote from: mk on Wed, 08 November 2023, 12:03:03 ---Great initiative, and quite exhaustive.
There are a few things in the document that are quite unclear.
The definition of a group buy according to the document:
--- Quote ---Group Buy (GB) = Sale mechanism based on prepayment model for future delivery of a product, where a certain order quantity must be reached before the order is placed. For the purposes of these ratings, a GB must be at least 250 MoQ for keysets and 50 MoQ for keyboards across all participating vendors (eg. lead vendor + regional proxies).
--- End quote ---
For running group buys / pre-orders for "low"-quantity keyboards/keycaps, switches, deskmats or other things:
* Does this mean, that they can be advertised without it counting towards the GB limit?
* If not, can they still be allowed to be advertised as a proxy vendor for these without it counting towards the GB limit?
* Does it mean, that they will not count towards fulfilled group buys once delivered?
--- Quote ---Made to Order (MTO) = or "Rolling Fulfillment" is an ongoing sale that could last for several months or longer, during which time customers can purchase a customized version of the product to be fulfilled within a specific time. For the purposes of this system, these types of sales are treated as a single GB for each MTO product.
--- End quote ---
* Can a "group" of different but similar products be advertised? (i.e. plate cutting and case printing?) with it only counting as one GB?
* How will this count towards fulfilled GBs? (x deliveries etc?)
As the title of the system is "MK Vendor Trust and Safety System" and the group buys are only mentioned in the subtitle, there is a chance it may mislead some customers to believe a C-rated vendor that primarily sells in-stock items is untrustworthy. The C-rated vendor only has a rating as they want to be allowed to promote their store on one of the collaborating platforms. As the rating cannot improve without successful GBs, it may encourage the vendor to either run products as pre-orders / MTO in order to boost their trust rating, rather than selling in-stock items. (Not unlike how Americans take out a loan for a car rather than buying it with the cash they have on hand, in order to boost their credit-rating)
* Are there any plans to be able to increase trust rating by being a reliable in-stock vendor?
* Will participating networks/partners be encouraged to disclose that it is a Group Buy Trust System when referencing the system?
--- End quote ---
Just wanted to echo what is mentioned here as well. Some clarification on MK's points would definitely be appreciated, especially toward his last sentiment.
I'm the co-owner of Divinikey.com, a vendor that has specialized in in-stock product for our industry for the last 3 years. We also would like to see some sort of trust rating boost for being a reliable in-stock vendor as well. Years of service, number of transactions, and traffic to the store are some metrics that could be used to help identify in-stock vendors as trustworthy or not.
Under the current system, we would be punished with a lower trust rating for choosing our business model despite being considered a trustworthy vendor.
We are definitely open to having a discussion on this. I'll submit similar feedback on the listed feedback form as well! Hopefully we can work something out. :thumb:
spikedsynapse:
TIL that being in business longer makes you more trustworthy. This means I can fully trust HSBC. :thumb:
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