[IC] Snowflake 60% - GB Cancelled, need suggestiosns

[Sylvester]

We decide to cancel this GB because there was one order after several days since the GB begins.

Now I know it's a wrong decision to start the GB before enough interests showed in the IC post. I will abandon the snowflake 60% design and move forward to make a new design. But before that, I need your help.

Here are some conclusions I made for snowflake.

• Tray mount is a negative.
• The snowflake weight/insert can't be seen from the front. The front side design is too simple and normal.
• Not hefty enough.

I also have some questions to ask.

• Flippe and Fjell are also tray mount style but it seems they’re still sought after. Why is that?
• How do you like large and heavy brass weights?
• What colors do you want most? We provided 10 colors for snowflake. Do you have any other colors to suggest?

Please let me know if you have any other reasons why you will never buy this kit. Also, please tell me any suggestions if you have. I'll try to make a new design based on your suggestions.

Nov 12, 2017


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About the Snowflake 60%

Snowflake is a custom keyboard kit featured with a snowflake shape bottom insert/weight. The kit include top and bottom cases, weight/insert, PCB, and plate.

The case and plate only support tray mount to make it compatible with most 60% PCBs.

Please find the IC post here

Features

• 6063 aluminum (anodized)
• 5 degrees slope
• Fully programmable PCB
• Compatible with most 60% PCBs (e.g. GH60, XD60)

Colors:

There are 10 colors to choose.

The top and bottom case can be in different colors.

Please find the color samples here.

Price:

For kit

• Standard Kit (aluminum case, aluminum plate, aluminum snowflake shapee insert, PCB) - $230
• Additional brass plate - $28 (It's only available as additional parts)
• Upgrade to brass weight - $30 
• Additional brass weight - $45

For shipping:

• Europe: $40
• USA: $40
• Asia: $35
• Australia: $60
• Other places: PM me for details

5% Paypal fee

Timeline

GB ends Nov 29.

Expected shipping date: late January

[amnesia0287]

Any idea what the weight difference is with the brass plate?

Does the Zeal60 fit?

[Sylvester]

Any idea what the weight difference is with the brass plate?

Does the Zeal60 fit?

I need to check the weight later.

Yes, Zeal 60 will fit.

[amnesia0287]

Any idea what the weight difference is with the brass plate?

Does the Zeal60 fit?

I need to check the weight later.

Yes, Zeal 60 will fit.

Thanks for responding.

I actually meant weight. Lol. Not sure how I failed. But basically I’m curious how much heavier it is with brass weight. I think I’m gonna get one with a friend, I think he’d like the weight, but also prefer color vs brass, so I’m curious how how much weight it gains.

No rush tho.

[Sylvester]

Any idea what the weight difference is with the brass plate?

Does the Zeal60 fit?

I need to check the weight later.

Yes, Zeal 60 will fit.

Thanks for responding.

I actually meant weight. Lol. Not sure how I failed. But basically I’m curious how much heavier it is with brass weight. I think I’m gonna get one with a friend, I think he’d like the weight, but also prefer color vs brass, so I’m curious how how much weight it gains.

No rush tho.

No problem. I knew some of you may want to know the weight but I forgot to measure. I'll update the weight for each part/version later.

[Sifo]

Does it fit any plate? Is the prototype dark blue or light blue?

[spiritjeon]

Is there a coating to prevent discoloration?(On brass) 

[Sylvester]

Does it fit any plate? Is the prototype dark blue or light blue?

Yes, all the "normal" 60% plates will fit.

That's light blue.

[Sifo]

Does it fit any plate? Is the prototype dark blue or light blue?

Yes, all the "normal" 60% plates will fit.

That's light blue.

Thanks, one more question, what model PCB is included in the kit? Can I see more detail on the programming

[Sylvester]

Is there a coating to prevent discoloration?(On brass) 

Yes, nickel plating

[Sylvester]

Does it fit any plate? Is the prototype dark blue or light blue?

Yes, all the "normal" 60% plates will fit.

That's light blue.

Thanks, one more question, what model PCB is included in the kit? Can I see more detail on the programming

It's not decided yet. I can just source XD60 PCBs which can be programmed by TMK/QMK. I'm also considering design my own PCB with a snowflake logo on it.

[Peppermint216]

When is the GB deadline? can the PCB be black?

[Sylvester]

When is the GB deadline? can the PCB be black?

I forgot to mention, GB ends 29th this month.

The color of PCB hasn't been decided but I'll take black as an suggestion.

[Darknight00z]

Is it possible to use the dz60 plate for weird bottom rows?

[Marutks]

It's not decided yet. I can just source XD60 PCBs which can be programmed by TMK/QMK.

It would be great to have south facing led PCB mounts. "upside down" switches have issues with GMK keycaps.

[Sylvester]

Is it possible to use the dz60 plate for weird bottom rows?

Just checked the screw holes of DZ60. It should fit our case.

[King4477]

Is this the dark blue case with brass plate? It looks darker than the dark blue in the color samples. Thanks!

[Sifo]

Is this the dark blue case with brass plate? It looks darker than the dark blue in the color samples. Thanks!

Show Image

that's black, man

[King4477]

Is this the dark blue case with brass plate? It looks darker than the dark blue in the color samples. Thanks!

Show Image

that's black, man

I can see that. Saw the blue tinge from the lighting and thought the case was a deep blue.

[King4477]

[edit: deleted, double submitted]

[Sylvester]

Is this the dark blue case with brass plate? It looks darker than the dark blue in the color samples. Thanks!

Show Image

that's black, man

I can see that. Saw the blue tinge from the lighting and thought the case was a deep blue.

That's black. We didn't make samples in dark blue color.

[Sylvester]

We decide to cancel this GB because there was one order after several days since the GB begins.

Now I know it's a wrong decision to start the GB before enough interests showed in the IC post. I will abandon the snowflake 60% design and move forward to make a new design. But before that, I need your help.

Here are some conclusions I made for snowflake.

• Tray mount is a negative.
• The snowflake weight/insert can't be seen from the front. The front side design is too simple and normal.
• Not hefty enough.

I also have some questions to ask.

• Flippe and Fjell are also tray mount style but it seems they’re still sought after. Why is that?
• How do you like large and heavy brass weights?
• What colors do you want most? We provided 10 colors for snowflake. Do you have any other colors to suggest?

Please let me know if you have any other reasons why you will never buy this kit. Also, please tell me any suggestions if you have. I'll try to make a new design based on your suggestions.

Nov 12, 2017

[graefeln]

I think part of this 'failure' was timing. I know for me personally, I dropped ~250$ on Galaxy Class and another ~225$ on Southpaw - a lot of people are throwing down on GMK Laser. Multiple cases are potentially right around the corner as well (M0110, Tokyo60, etc); and people are waiting for/receiving new cases (M65-A, Exent, etc.). 60% is probably the most over-saturated market as it is. Christmas is also right around the corner. There are multiple reasons that have little to do with your case directly. That said, aside from the design on the weight, it doesn't really do anything special either; it's not particularly unique and doesn't have much to set it apart from the pack.

There are going to be multiple failures right now, not just yours - GMK Necro recently threw in the towel, I think there was another 60% case that failed to hit MOQ, and I believe GMK Slate delayed itself a week or two to hopefully alleviate the pressure of going against GMK Laser too soon.

[Marutks]

I would be more interested in 65% case.  There are so many 60% cases already. Fjell looks so stylish.

Also PCB needs to have south facing switch mounts (GHC60 rev c).   I don't want to buy anything that isn't compatible with GMK keycaps!
I wanted to order Snowlake but there was no information about pcb.

[energyd]

I too am curious what make Fjell so special. From the front it's just a normal 60% case.

As for suggestion, I think the Snowflake looks great but as you mentioned it does not look hefty enough and it looks thin and low profile. I guess a pic that display the "depth" of the case is important.

As for the color, I'm very interested in sort of dark navy blue that's used on the M65A that's on the product page of the GMK Yuri. I think the (normal) blue color that's in the middle of cyan and dark navy blue will not look good with any keyset.

[Marutks]

can you make your case 65%?   I would definitely buy one. 

[BerserkZz]

In my opinion, there are some reasons to account for. First: The design itself didn't get too much attention or hype. Personally, I don't think tray mounted is a huge problem. Some people say so doesn't mean it's the case. I would say the overall design isn't that attractive. I like your weight design but not so much for you top case. Second: Marketed target. I don't see you own respect towards your work. You seemed to do whatever people like that could make you some money. It shouldn't be like that. I don't see the passion and love you have put into the case. People like Klippe and Fjell not just for their aesthetics, but also the designer as well. They know he will do some serious and good work. Third: Launch date. To be honest, the time you chose to launch couldn't be worse. They are some large group buys going on like Pearl, Southpaw, Laser, etc. So it is not surprised to see that you get so few orders.

[Darknight00z]

I would like the echo the other comments about the sentiment of the designer and their work. I personally, quite liked the case and espcially the low profile and 5 degrees angle. It is rare to find such a case among the customs. I personally didn't have the funds to jump in on this GB, since 9009/ laser/ Glaxacy class. There was just too much competition for you this month. Maybe consider revisisting a low profile and low angle case in late Jan/ Feb/March time. I will definitly be in for on!! I really apprecate the simplistic design of the weight and case. For me personally the Time TKL is a joke, whats the point of such a weight on the bottom of the case if you can't even see it. I have no idea why people liked it so much. The keyboard is supposed to be on the table, such intricate designs defects the purpose. You were unlucky to have such fiece competition.  Best of luck to your future designs!

[Sylvester]

I think part of this 'failure' was timing. I know for me personally, I dropped ~250$ on Galaxy Class and another ~225$ on Southpaw - a lot of people are throwing down on GMK Laser. Multiple cases are potentially right around the corner as well (M0110, Tokyo60, etc); and people are waiting for/receiving new cases (M65-A, Exent, etc.). 60% is probably the most over-saturated market as it is. Christmas is also right around the corner. There are multiple reasons that have little to do with your case directly. That said, aside from the design on the weight, it doesn't really do anything special either; it's not particularly unique and doesn't have much to set it apart from the pack.

There are going to be multiple failures right now, not just yours - GMK Necro recently threw in the towel, I think there was another 60% case that failed to hit MOQ, and I believe GMK Slate delayed itself a week or two to hopefully alleviate the pressure of going against GMK Laser too soon.

Yes, timing is an important reason. While some GBs are failing, some are still going strong. More competitive design is important as well.

[Sylvester]

I would be more interested in 65% case.  There are so many 60% cases already. Fjell looks so stylish.

Also PCB needs to have south facing switch mounts (GHC60 rev c).   I don't want to buy anything that isn't compatible with GMK keycaps!
I wanted to order Snowlake but there was no information about pcb.

Thanks Marutks, I really appreciated your suggestions on the PCB selections. We'll definitely provide PCBs with upside down switch direction the next time

[Sylvester]

I too am curious what make Fjell so special. From the front it's just a normal 60% case.

As for suggestion, I think the Snowflake looks great but as you mentioned it does not look hefty enough and it looks thin and low profile. I guess a pic that display the "depth" of the case is important.

As for the color, I'm very interested in sort of dark navy blue that's used on the M65A that's on the product page of the GMK Yuri. I think the (normal) blue color that's in the middle of cyan and dark navy blue will not look good with any keyset.

I guess the edge design of Fjell also makes it special. It also has very large stands under the PCB where the screws are.

Dark navy blue is an option we can try the next time!

[Sylvester]

In my opinion, there are some reasons to account for. First: The design itself didn't get too much attention or hype. Personally, I don't think tray mounted is a huge problem. Some people say so doesn't mean it's the case. I would say the overall design isn't that attractive. I like your weight design but not so much for you top case. Second: Marketed target. I don't see you own respect towards your work. You seemed to do whatever people like that could make you some money. It shouldn't be like that. I don't see the passion and love you have put into the case. People like Klippe and Fjell not just for their aesthetics, but also the designer as well. They know he will do some serious and good work. Third: Launch date. To be honest, the time you chose to launch couldn't be worse. They are some large group buys going on like Pearl, Southpaw, Laser, etc. So it is not surprised to see that you get so few orders.

Thanks for your opinions. That explains many of my doubts. Individual style matters a lot.

I'm pretty new to this community and I'm stilling learning knowledges about keyboards. Peoples favor about some keyboards looks like metaphysics to me at first. I then realize some details of these boards really were designed with dedicated efforts. As a new member also a new designer, I think starting from what people like is not a bad idea. I designed snowflake without listening to suggestions and the GB failed. That's why I'm open for suggestions the next time.

[Sylvester]

I would like the echo the other comments about the sentiment of the designer and their work. I personally, quite liked the case and espcially the low profile and 5 degrees angle. It is rare to find such a case among the customs. I personally didn't have the funds to jump in on this GB, since 9009/ laser/ Glaxacy class. There was just too much competition for you this month. Maybe consider revisisting a low profile and low angle case in late Jan/ Feb/March time. I will definitly be in for on!! I really apprecate the simplistic design of the weight and case. For me personally the Time TKL is a joke, whats the point of such a weight on the bottom of the case if you can't even see it. I have no idea why people liked it so much. The keyboard is supposed to be on the table, such intricate designs defects the purpose. You were unlucky to have such fiece competition.  Best of luck to your future designs!

Low angle, larger top case over bottom case, these were my original idea for snowflake. Even the GB failed, I didn't see many criticism for these points, so it's very likely I'll stick to these original ideas.

Speaking of Time TKL, I'm not a big fan of complex bottom designs but I honor his work a lot. I asked him some questions about the designs and rules launching GB. He told me Time TKL was his initial design he wanted to try even before Orange TKL. It's very risky to make such a design with a great deal of extra costs but he insisted to make it real.

Yes, several people all mentioned the timing issue. I didn't know the competition is so fierce recently.

[amnesia0287]

I think part of this 'failure' was timing. I know for me personally, I dropped ~250$ on Galaxy Class and another ~225$ on Southpaw - a lot of people are throwing down on GMK Laser. Multiple cases are potentially right around the corner as well (M0110, Tokyo60, etc); and people are waiting for/receiving new cases (M65-A, Exent, etc.). 60% is probably the most over-saturated market as it is. Christmas is also right around the corner. There are multiple reasons that have little to do with your case directly. That said, aside from the design on the weight, it doesn't really do anything special either; it's not particularly unique and doesn't have much to set it apart from the pack.

There are going to be multiple failures right now, not just yours - GMK Necro recently threw in the towel, I think there was another 60% case that failed to hit MOQ, and I believe GMK Slate delayed itself a week or two to hopefully alleviate the pressure of going against GMK Laser too soon.

Pretty much this. I was considering ordering 1, maybe even a second to give to a friend, but I am spending tons on laser, and I just blew up my wallet this month (I joined multiple GMK and keyboard gb the last 30 days. I was gonna wait until like the last day since then I would be on my next paycheck, but had this launched in like 1-2 months.

I like top mount, but no problem with tray mount either

As to fjell and Klippe, I think the fjell is popular because it’s so unique compared to everything else. And it may be a tray mount, but it’s extremely well done and extremely solid/supported. Klippe is popular because of fjell and again general quality. The tolerances on the Klippe/Fjell are awesome. And they feel so solid cause of the supports.

I do think something a bit heftier would do better. I think it also has too many soft (rounded) edges. Especially the 4 inner corners of the top case that wrap the keys.

I also agree that 65% would likely draw more interested. 60% are abundant. 65% are harder to get cept the Tada68.

[Marutks]

Thanks Marutks, I really appreciated your suggestions on the PCB selections.

yes, please
for example, this PCB has correct switch orientation

[Oscar2177]

We decide to cancel this GB because there was one order after several days since the GB begins.

Now I know it's a wrong decision to start the GB before enough interests showed in the IC post. I will abandon the snowflake 60% design and move forward to make a new design. But before that, I need your help.

Here are some conclusions I made for snowflake.

• Tray mount is a negative.
• The snowflake weight/insert can't be seen from the front. The front side design is too simple and normal.
• Not hefty enough.

I also have some questions to ask.

• Flippe and Fjell are also tray mount style but it seems they’re still sought after. Why is that?
• How do you like large and heavy brass weights?
• What colors do you want most? We provided 10 colors for snowflake. Do you have any other colors to suggest?

Please let me know if you have any other reasons why you will never buy this kit. Also, please tell me any suggestions if you have. I'll try to make a new design based on your suggestions.

Nov 12, 2017

I personally would also agree about timing not being good right now. I just dropped $1000 in 2 keyboards just a little over a month ago and don't have more money to spend at the moment. Hope everything goes better in the future.

[pvd]

Aesthetically, I wasn't a fan of how the top part of the case stuck out over the bottom part - I personally prefer cases where the two halves are flush.

In fact, I feel like a two-piece case just doesn't make sense when the case is tray mounted.

[amnesia0287]

Aesthetically, I wasn't a fan of how the top part of the case stuck out over the bottom part - I personally prefer cases where the two halves are flush.

In fact, I feel like a two-piece case just doesn't make sense when the case is tray mounted.

Unless hhkb the extra machine time doesn’t seem worth it.

[Sylvester]

Aesthetically, I wasn't a fan of how the top part of the case stuck out over the bottom part - I personally prefer cases where the two halves are flush.

In fact, I feel like a two-piece case just doesn't make sense when the case is tray mounted.

Unless hhkb the extra machine time doesn’t seem worth it.

My original intention for the two-piece case is to provide more color combinations. When 10 colors for each of the two parts, there will be 100 color combinations in maximum. I think that's good, but now I believe 65% top mount two-piece case will be better.

[The_Boom_Boy]

RIP. Probably just not a good time to be running this

[mudcakehoney]

The thing I liked the most from the snowflake was the colour combos and I was just about to pull the trigger on it when you cancelled.

My reservations though were it’s simple design and that it was 60%. I have multiple 60% boards on the go atm and struggle to justify another. A 65% with spacer next to the arrows is my ideal layout (the spacer adds a little variance and imo makes the board look classier).

As far as shape and design there have been some really interesting models out there, you may need to find a unique look to be noticed. Look how popular the Canoe and ca66 are.

I love what you are doing though and am keen to support your new project.

[Sifo]

i really liked the colors, i liked the design, but i didn't really like the weight? I think just the snowflake logo and no text and not so big would be better.

[Marutks]

A 65% with spacer next to the arrows is my ideal layout (the spacer adds a little variance and imo makes the board look classier).

Mine too!  I am still looking for decent 65% case.

[kmba]

An expensive tray mounted case needs to really stand out to be successful. Fjell is stunning, unique, and super heavy. Klippe has impressive stature and very strong lines, so despite being simple, it stands apart. Snowflake is plain, meek, and a little awkward with the larger top. To me, nothing unique or desirable about the design. It looks more like a $150 case than $230+

[Harms]

A 65% with spacer next to the arrows is my ideal layout (the spacer adds a little variance and imo makes the board look classier).

Mine too!  I am still looking for decent 65% case.

65% with spacer next to arrow keys is the best

Sent from my STV100-3 using Tapatalk

[trizkut]

The thing I liked the most from the snowflake was the colour combos and I was just about to pull the trigger on it when you cancelled.

My reservations though were it’s simple design and that it was 60%. I have multiple 60% boards on the go atm and struggle to justify another. A 65% with spacer next to the arrows is my ideal layout (the spacer adds a little variance and imo makes the board look classier).

As far as shape and design there have been some really interesting models out there, you may need to find a unique look to be noticed. Look how popular the Canoe and ca66 are.

I love what you are doing though and am keen to support your new project.

This pretty much sums up how I felt.  It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me for it to be a two-piece case other than the fact that you were offering color options.  But even in other two-piece case GBs, a good number still end up getting the same color for top/bottom.  I've used enough tray-mount boards; as far as I've followed, the only top-mount 60% so far that's been completed is the x60?  So I was a little disappointed to hear it was tray-mount/universal.  But even so, I was still considering buying the board simply because of that lighter blue  .