geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Blazestorm on Wed, 11 January 2017, 01:38:31
-
Just an FYI for anyone who wants to try this mod. The stock Realforce RGB has a miserable sound with the stock sliders/housing. I immediately ordered a set of Hypersphere's silencing rings. But when I went to install, I found out that the sliders on the Realforce RGB are slightly modified from their other boards.
Here are some pictures which show what I had to do: http://imgur.com/a/jJqfw
(http://i.imgur.com/la9AEb8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2XKk3wR.jpg)
@Rayoui (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=41777) did the same mod and found that cutting the rings a bit, improved the feel over just using them as-is. If you don't modify the rings then the sliders don't move as smoothly. Because they get stuck on that bit of plastic at the top of the housing (shown in the 2nd picture). Which, from what I can tell, is to let the LED light through up to the key cap (which is why no other Topre uses these sliders/housing).
It's much closer to the factory silenced Topre I have (Ducky Taiwan Edition 45g).
-
Very informative. Thank you. I had no idea that Topre changed the sliders.
-
Nice when I installed them the first time I was wondering what was hanging up. As soon as I seen this post I went ahead and popped the keyboard open and did this mod. I can confirm this helps. The rebound is noticeable.
-
@Blazestorm: Thanks for letting me know and thanks for this informative post.
It would probably be cost-prohibitive for me to make separate batches of rings for the RGB RF board unless Topre decides to retool and make these new sliders the default for all future Topre-switch boards. Therefore, it is good to know that your mod is something relatively simple that would be easy for the end-user to perform on the standard-issue Silencing Rings.
With your permission, I'd like to include something about your mod on our eBay site so that people who want to silence their RGB RF boards can be well informed.
-
did the same mod and found that cutting the rings a bit, improved the feel over just using them as-is. If you don't modify the rings then the sliders don't move as smoothly. Because they get stuck on that bit of plastic at the top of the housing (shown in the 2nd picture). Which, from what I can tell, is to let the LED light through up to the key cap (which is why no other Topre uses these sliders/housing).
What did you use to make the cut? X-acto knife? Sandpaper? Chainsaw?
-
You can cut the rings with scissors.
The material is weird, like something out of a 1950s SciFi movie. It seems almost impervious to impact, as if it could stop bullets, yet it can be cut with scissors fairly easily.
-
Make sure you have a few extras on hand. The rings are small and scissors are big; I removed a bit too much material cutting a few of them so I was glad to have some spares.
-
Two rules I learned about cutting things from experts -- carpenters and surgeons:
+ Measure twice, cut once.
+ Never cut unless you can clearly see what you are cutting.
-
I used scissors and didn't have any issues =), but exacto would probably be better.
I noticed you don't need to cut very much off the top for it to fit better, maybe a 1-2 mm. As long as you leave the ring intact it should be fine... I had some that were a bit thinner at the top, and some that I barely cut any off of.
-
Now that we know that some people are installing the Silencing Rings in the Topre RF RGB 108, we will make up some packets with 108 + 3 = 111 Rings (we toss in 3 extra Rings at no extra charge in each packet for various keyboard configurations to allow for various contingencies, such as loss, damage, defects, etc.).
BTW, we ran out of Rings sooner than expected this month. We expect to replenish them within the next few days and to have the listings back up on eBay as soon as possible.
-
I noticed on another forum that someone asked why bother with the mod if they can just rotate out of alignment?
What I found is that little plastic channel (the reason I had to cut the rings in the first place) actually keeps the rings in alignment. Occasionally when installing the sliders it won't be lined up, so I had to use a small tool to rotate the ring until it was lined up. After that it never came out of alignment. The goal of the mod is not to eliminate all contact points between the ring and the channel, it's to reduce it to a smaller contact point.
My "test" for Topre slider smoothness is to flip the plate w/ just the sliders (no domes/springs) 180* back and forth. Gravity should be able to pull all of the sliders their full distance in both directions. The reason I first noticed the issue is that the first slider I put the original ring on kept getting stuck when I did this test. While all the stock sliders were sliding smoothly.
-
@Blazestorm: Thanks again for discovering the problem, providing a solution, and following up with explanations and advice! Last night I wrote up an insert to include in the 111 Ring packets for the Topre RGB that includes a couple of your pics with credit to you and a link to this thread.
-
I'm curious how much typing it took for others to notice the rings causing key jamming.
Today I plugged in my RealForce RGB with unmodified Hypersphere rings, and have been typing on it for about an hour now. I have not yet felt any of the keys get jammed or refuse to return to their rest state. Do I need more hours of pounding away on the keys before I run into this issue?
-
I'm curious how much typing it took for others to notice the rings causing key jamming.
Today I plugged in my RealForce RGB with unmodified Hypersphere rings, and have been typing on it for about an hour now. I have not yet felt any of the keys get jammed or refuse to return to their rest state. Do I need more hours of pounding away on the keys before I run into this issue?
The resistance from the dome and spring is enough to push the plunger. I didn't notice the difference until I performed the mod. The down stroke was unchanged, but the up stroke rebound was quicker. When I did the mod I noticed a couple of the rings were bent, confirming the bind.
-
It's much closer to the factory silenced Topre I have (Ducky Taiwan Edition 45g).
I thought the Realforce RGB was the most expensive topre keyboard until I looked up what a Ducky Taiwan Edition was, I had no idea Ducky ever made anything Topre. $300 USD!?! It looks like an ordinary topre board, compared to the $250 Realforce RGB with some bells and whistles.
-
Topre 104UK Hi-Pro could be ordered for $330 from widebasket on eBay a year ago. There have probably been some even more expensive than that.
-
I'm curious how much typing it took for others to notice the rings causing key jamming.
Today I plugged in my RealForce RGB with unmodified Hypersphere rings, and have been typing on it for about an hour now. I have not yet felt any of the keys get jammed or refuse to return to their rest state. Do I need more hours of pounding away on the keys before I run into this issue?
Sorry if I wasn't clear, the keyboard would still work without this mod. The springs/domes do have enough strength to push the keys back, it's just not as good as it could be. =)
I never tried the board, fully assembled, before the mod. So I don't know what the difference is actually, other people have reported a difference.
-
I thought the Realforce RGB was the most expensive topre keyboard until I looked up what a Ducky Taiwan Edition was, I had no idea Ducky ever made anything Topre. $300 USD!?! It looks like an ordinary topre board, compared to the $250 Realforce RGB with some bells and whistles.
HHKB Type-S is going for $340 on EK right now.
I'm curious how much typing it took for others to notice the rings causing key jamming.
Today I plugged in my RealForce RGB with unmodified Hypersphere rings, and have been typing on it for about an hour now. I have not yet felt any of the keys get jammed or refuse to return to their rest state. Do I need more hours of pounding away on the keys before I run into this issue?
Sorry if I wasn't clear, the keyboard would still work without this mod. The springs/domes do have enough strength to push the keys back, it's just not as good as it could be. =)
I never tried the board, fully assembled, before the mod. So I don't know what the difference is actually, other people have reported a difference.
After performing the mod, the tactile bump seems a bit more pronounced. Seems the slight friction of the ring sliding against the housing dampens the tactility somewhat.
-
Ultimately it is a matter of personal taste, right?
I have a RealForce RGB in which I installed the tiny silencing rings you get from Chinese knockoff sliders (like you can get from Aliexpress--I harvested them from my Noppoo). The tactility is noticeably more pronounced than my RealForce RGB with unsliced Hypersphere rings installed.
But you know what? I like the reduced tactility, or rather, the reduced resistance I feel. I guess the Hypersphere rings pre-compress the rubber dome a bit, and even moreso without the slicing mod. And I like that because it is a bit easier to type on, at least for me. I am tempted to swap out the Noppoo rings for Hypersphere rings in my other RGB at some point, and maybe use the Noppoo rings in my NovaTouch instead.
-
Ultimately it is a matter of personal taste, right?
I have a RealForce RGB in which I installed the tiny silencing rings you get from Chinese knockoff sliders (like you can get from Aliexpress--I harvested them from my Noppoo). The tactility is noticeably more pronounced than my RealForce RGB with unsliced Hypersphere rings installed.
But you know what? I like the reduced tactility, or rather, the reduced resistance I feel. I guess the Hypersphere rings pre-compress the rubber dome a bit, and even moreso without the slicing mod. And I like that because it is a bit easier to type on, at least for me. I am tempted to swap out the Noppoo rings for Hypersphere rings in my other RGB at some point, and maybe use the Noppoo rings in my NovaTouch instead.
Thanks for the endorsement! I especially appreciate your comments, as I sense from reading many of your posts that you have impeccable taste and extremely high standards. :)
-
I don't know about you guys, but my stabilizers in this Realforce RGB rattled a lot. I finally opened her up and took the softest tape I had, which in this case was painters masking tape, and went to work. I'm happy to report that the stabilizers are now as quiet as the rest of the keys.
This seemed to be the best placement for the tape, also anything more than a couple wraps made them bind. It took some time but it was well worth it. Also I re-lubed them as well.
(http://i.imgur.com/XeuUgV0.jpg)
-
I guess I'm just hoping that a sufficiently viscous lube (like Krytox 205) will be sufficient to eliminate stabilizer rattle on the RGB. Time will tell...
-
I got my Hypersphere rings in the mail yesterday and it took me about 2.5 hours to carefully slice them with an Xacto knife, align them properly on the switch and get everything installed. I do have to say, the difference with them installed is nothing short of phenomenal. The sound of the board is much more solid and less distracting. It's just the perfect amount of sound so you can hear what you are doing but not get annoying. I installed Vortex PBT double shot key caps as well, other than the the F keys because of the icons, but they look nearly identical and you can't tell they are from another set of caps.
-
Thanks for the info. I ordered the rings too. I should get them by the end of this or early next week. By any chance, does anybody have a video or a photo series on how to disassemble the keyboard and install this rings? Thank you all!
-
It's really easy to take apart actually, there's one screw under the "Do not remove, void warranty, blah blah" by where the USB cable comes out, then just clips all along the top and bottom edges: just pry it apart w/ some plastic spudger. Just be gentle taking the halves apart.
My domes stayed stuck to my PCB so I didn't have to worry about much coming out of place, but still be careful =)
I also recommend the Vortex PBT double-shots, $40 and they look/feel great. There are a few legends that weren't cut perfect (Home's o looks bad), but still really good for the price.
-
There is a YouTube video out there of a RealForce board being disassembled. Everything is the same for the RGB except that separating the two halves of the case is considerably harder (i.e., requires more force) than for a regular RealForce case.
-
It's really easy to take apart actually, there's one screw under the "Do not remove, void warranty, blah blah" by where the USB cable comes out, then just clips all along the top and bottom edges: just pry it apart w/ some plastic spudger. Just be gentle taking the halves apart.
My domes stayed stuck to my PCB so I didn't have to worry about much coming out of place, but still be careful =)
I also recommend the Vortex PBT double-shots, $40 and they look/feel great. There are a few legends that weren't cut perfect (Home's o looks bad), but still really good for the price.
Thank you sir. I did order the Vortex 126 Key Double Shot PBT Keycap Set - White Translucent - should get it this week too or early next week. Ordered white because I just want to replace the alpha numeric keys, to make it look contrasty.
Will let you know how it goes (the rings installation). By chance do you have a recommendation for lubing?
Have a good one!
-
There is a YouTube video out there of a RealForce board being disassembled. Everything is the same for the RGB except that separating the two halves of the case is considerably harder (i.e., requires more force) than for a regular RealForce case.
Thank you sir. I believe I saw that one too! Will keep you posted how it goes. Cheers!
-
Thanks for the info. I ordered the rings too. I should get them by the end of this or early next week. By any chance, does anybody have a video or a photo series on how to disassemble the keyboard and install this rings? Thank you all!
Ohh you must be the one who posted that mock up of the GMK Plum on MD haha. As far as lubing goes, you want to apply a thin layer on the rails of the housing. You can use a qtip, but a small paint brush works best.
Bro posted an image showing you where to lube here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49741.msg1078350#msg1078350).
-
Thanks for the info. I ordered the rings too. I should get them by the end of this or early next week. By any chance, does anybody have a video or a photo series on how to disassemble the keyboard and install this rings? Thank you all!
Ohh you must be the one who posted that mock up of the GMK Plum on MD haha. As far as lubing goes, you want to apply a thin layer on the rails of the housing. You can use a qtip, but a small paint brush works best.
Bro posted an image showing you where to lube here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49741.msg1078350#msg1078350).
Haha! Yes, I did post that on MD. Thanks for the link. Looking into it now.
-
Thanks for the info. I ordered the rings too. I should get them by the end of this or early next week. By any chance, does anybody have a video or a photo series on how to disassemble the keyboard and install this rings? Thank you all!
Ohh you must be the one who posted that mock up of the GMK Plum on MD haha. As far as lubing goes, you want to apply a thin layer on the rails of the housing. You can use a qtip, but a small paint brush works best.
Bro posted an image showing you where to lube here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49741.msg1078350#msg1078350).
Yes, I agree that a small paintbrush works better than a Qtip. In addition, some brands of cotton swabs have a tendency to drop cotton lint in the works -- something you definitely don't want.
As for the type of lube, I've gotten good results with Superlube 51010 oil.
-
Thanks for the info. I ordered the rings too. I should get them by the end of this or early next week. By any chance, does anybody have a video or a photo series on how to disassemble the keyboard and install this rings? Thank you all!
Ohh you must be the one who posted that mock up of the GMK Plum on MD haha. As far as lubing goes, you want to apply a thin layer on the rails of the housing. You can use a qtip, but a small paint brush works best.
Bro posted an image showing you where to lube here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49741.msg1078350#msg1078350).
Yes, I agree that a small paintbrush works better than a Qtip. In addition, some brands of cotton swabs have a tendency to drop cotton lint in the works -- something you definitely don't want.
As for the type of lube, I've gotten good results with Superlube 51010 oil.
Thank you! I appreciate the tips. Will let you know how it goes. Hopefully, I'll receive the rings next week. Have a good one!
-
I noticed that Topre has a spacer kit for the Realforce RGB keyboard.
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2291
The kit only includes about 20-30 spacers so it's not enough to do the whole keyboard. Mainly the WASD keys and a few others. I'm wondering how it affects the key travel or the sound of the keys.
-
I type on a RealForce RGB every day; it is my main driver at work. I don't see the value of these spacers as silencers; the bottoming out sound of the RGB is the signature Topre thock sound and it is quite soft already. I don't know who would want to reduce that sound further. The only "useful" thing these spacers will do is reduce key travel, and I can't speak to the value of doing that since I've never wanted to do that on any keyboard I've ever owned.
-
I noticed that Topre has a spacer kit for the Realforce RGB keyboard.
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2291
The kit only includes about 20-30 spacers so it's not enough to do the whole keyboard. Mainly the WASD keys and a few others. I'm wondering how it affects the key travel or the sound of the keys.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/topre-spacers-actuation-change-realforce,33406.html
-
They're not meant to silence, but to reduce travel AFAIK. There was a blurb about it on the box I received yesterday.
-
Now that we know that some people are installing the Silencing Rings in the Topre RF RGB 108, we will make up some packets with 108 + 3 = 111 Rings (we toss in 3 extra Rings at no extra charge in each packet for various keyboard configurations to allow for various contingencies, such as loss, damage, defects, etc.).
BTW, we ran out of Rings sooner than expected this month. We expect to replenish them within the next few days and to have the listings back up on eBay as soon as possible.
Would it be possible to get them pre-cut? I am so clumsy I would have to buy three packs of 111 in order to get 108 working rings otherwise...
-
Hypersphere has said elsewhere that such an option would be so tedious and labor intensive that it would drive up the price of the rings to untenable levels, so he's not going to offer that service.
-
You don't have to be too precise, just leave the ring in-tact...
Might be possible to setup something w/ a paper cutter that could hold the rings in place while you slice off that small amount.
-
If it's so easy to do, then I think customers can do it for themselves. :thumb:
-
By the way, I tried to open the keyboard to see how the install, and I couldn't get it open. Are there screws I can't see?
-
By the way, I tried to open the keyboard to see how the install, and I couldn't get it open. Are there screws I can't see?
There are snaps along the front and rear sides of the keyboard. You need to gently pry the plastic from the top half of the case along these edges so the snaps disengage.
-
By the way, I tried to open the keyboard to see how the install, and I couldn't get it open. Are there screws I can't see?
Yes, there is one screw hidden under the little round silver inspection sticker in the center of the case bottom. And then as Rayoui mentioned, you need to pry the top snap tabs away from the case bottom, but they are really tight so you have to really dig in there and pull. Be firm, but slow so as not to crack anything.
-
There's no screws under the sticker, just a extrusion mark.
-
Well, there were screws in both of my boards.
-
The screw we're referring to is under the the sticker by the cable coming out of the case, not underneath the large sticker.
-
The screw we're referring to is under the the sticker by the cable coming out of the case, not underneath the large sticker.
Yeah, I'm not sure which part of "little round silver inspection sticker" is ambiguous... :rolleyes:
-
The screw we're referring to is under the the sticker by the cable coming out of the case, not underneath the large sticker.
Yeah, I'm not sure which part of "little round silver inspection sticker" is ambiguous... :rolleyes:
Obviously the part where I misread your post! Duh! ;)
-
I know how you feel. My fingers are too far ahead of my brain sometimes too... :thumb:
-
Now that we know that some people are installing the Silencing Rings in the Topre RF RGB 108, we will make up some packets with 108 + 3 = 111 Rings (we toss in 3 extra Rings at no extra charge in each packet for various keyboard configurations to allow for various contingencies, such as loss, damage, defects, etc.).
BTW, we ran out of Rings sooner than expected this month. We expect to replenish them within the next few days and to have the listings back up on eBay as soon as possible.
Would it be possible to get them pre-cut? I am so clumsy I would have to buy three packs of 111 in order to get 108 working rings otherwise...
It is not that difficult to cut. I just used a normal pair of scissors. -
-
Now that we know that some people are installing the Silencing Rings in the Topre RF RGB 108, we will make up some packets with 108 + 3 = 111 Rings (we toss in 3 extra Rings at no extra charge in each packet for various keyboard configurations to allow for various contingencies, such as loss, damage, defects, etc.).
BTW, we ran out of Rings sooner than expected this month. We expect to replenish them within the next few days and to have the listings back up on eBay as soon as possible.
Would it be possible to get them pre-cut? I am so clumsy I would have to buy three packs of 111 in order to get 108 working rings otherwise...
It is not that difficult to cut. I just used a normal pair of scissors. -
If you want to do it with precision.. xacto knife is better, because you can just press it under a ruler, and xacto the precise amount off that you need.
The scissor cuts looks straight, but it actually kind of cuts a slight curve shape upon soft materials.
-
It doesn't really have to be perfect. You just need to remove enough material so it doesn't rub.
-
I'm going to try to make a jig with my paper cutter :)
I just need some way of fastening 5-10 rings at the exact same location on one axis... Shouldn't be too difficult. Hell, I can just fasten them manually with tape, though that would be an annoying amount of work - I would spend 30 seconds per 5 rings, when I could spend three days making something that would enable me to do it in 10 seconds per...
-
I'm going to try to make a jig with my paper cutter :)
I just need some way of fastening 5-10 rings at the exact same location on one axis... Shouldn't be too difficult. Hell, I can just fasten them manually with tape, though that would be an annoying amount of work - I would spend 30 seconds per 5 rings, when I could spend three days making something that would enable me to do it in 10 seconds per...
make sure to use the tight end of the paper cutter.
Although I'm not a fan of paper cutters for precision cutting.
you could make a jig with tape and then use the xacto.
-
That's not a jig, that's "doing something just as well without making an effort" or something
-
That's not a jig, that's "doing something just as well without making an effort" or something
hahahaha...
Yea, I was actually just going to suggest drawing some lines on graph paper.. and a cut-here line.. hahahahahahahaha
-
Yea, actually thinking more about it now, I'd probably avoid the paper cutter.
I've had enough bad cuts from using paper cutters, and you can't really risk destroying more than a couple of these unless you want to spend a lot.
I was actually thinking maybe Hypersphere does want to adjust the cut of all the rings, because you could actually use less material/get higher yields if all the rings had this little cut at the top. They still work with stock Topre just fine, the missing piece is just a symmetry thing (which might bug people, I dunno, doesn't affect the noise).
If you had the two flat sides right against each-other on the stencil, you'd actually save 2-4mm of material for each row (I assume they line these up in a grid and cut them). So, less material used, and it fits all the Topre sliders (RGB + Original) :D (Except that pesky 87u Left Ctrl).
Or if you added 4 flat sides to all of the rings and made them more square, it would also lead to higher yields because you could put all the rings next to each other on the stencil.
-
I simply used a small set of scissors. Worked fine, though I made sure I sharpened them first.
-
Two rules I learned about cutting things from experts -- carpenters and surgeons:
+ Measure twice, cut once.
+ Never cut unless you can clearly see what you are cutting.
I'm a carpenter by trade & these are words to live by! :thumb:
-
Two rules I learned about cutting things from experts -- carpenters and surgeons:
+ Measure twice, cut once.
+ Never cut unless you can clearly see what you are cutting.
I'm a carpenter by trade & these are words to live by! :thumb:
rob u haz pm !!