Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[childofthehorn]

Function layer 1 keys need to be a 1.5u key just to the right of the spacebar.
The HHKB standard top-layer is best layout (other than the function layer key).
HHKB function layer is Hot Garbage
KBP V60 has best non-programmable function layer layout
6.25u space bars are too big, same with even 6u space bars. Why no 4u or 5u?
60% keyboards do not need dedicated arrows for anyone other than if you have other's "drive".
WASD arrows not as good as PL:" arrows (follows natural hand motion better).
G20 is worst keyboard keycap profile, followed by DSA
SA profile is best profile (1-2-3-4-3)
1.75u shift should be standard right shift.
1.25u left shift should be standard left shift with one 1u left function key to the left of it.
No one really needs more than a 75% layout (accountants can get a numpad OK)
Alps damped simple or Matias QC switches are still better than lubed Zealios.
Alps clicky or damped of any kind is better than all other switches in feels, even modded.

[hwood34]

G20 is worst keyboard keycap profile, followed by DSA

ayyyyy

SA profile is best profile (1-2-3-4-3)

ohh

1.75u shift should be standard right shift.
1.25u left shift should be standard left shift with one 1u left function key to the left of it.

easy with those hot takes lol

[happylacquer]

^^^ Sup  Middlesex County bro?

Is it an unpopular opinion to despise tactile clicks and only think linear switches are worth using?

I also think a switch that needs lube to work well is a switch that shouldn't get used. and 6.5x spacebar should be standard because it is superior

>>HHKB function layer is Hot Garbage
yup

>>G20 is worst keyboard keycap profile, followed by DSA
I don't see what so bad about DSA but G20 is for people who would use caps from $5 rubber domes if they could.

[mousouchop]

As someone who's just getting into this stuff-- this is a somewhat comical and insightful thread.

[ideus]

My favorite board sports an XT layout ( AKA ANSI with ISO Enter) in a sixty format with MX Ergo Clears!

Isn't the XT layout a bigass enter with a split backspace, a bank of 10 f keys on the left side? Not really ANSI with an ISO. Also ISO is the most retarded layout ever made. Id rather use some weird antiquated terminal layout instead of that trash

The bigass enter is a different layout. The XT actually carries a vertical enter, but my implementation has an ISO Enter.


Original XT





My implementation





Another version

[xondat]

Is it an unpopular opinion to despise tactile clicks and only think linear switches are worth using?

With the domination of Zealio at the minute, perhaps, but linears are better.

[minilov3]

Is it an unpopular opinion to despise tactile clicks and only think linear switches are worth using?

With the domination of Zealio at the minute, perhaps, but linears are better.

linear > all xD


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[eratic]

Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps


Let me explain. MK noob here. I love the typing feel on my new Corsair Strafe MX Brown but HATE the keycaps. I've been looking around for "low profile" keycaps, all I can find are DSA ($$$) and even they don't look that they would be as comfortable as my work membrane board (Microsoft 600).

[menuhin]

Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps


Let me explain. MK noob here. I love the typing feel on my new Corsair Strafe MX Brown but HATE the keycaps. I've been looking around for "low profile" keycaps, all I can find are DSA ($$$) and even they don't look that they would be as comfortable as my work membrane board (Microsoft 600).

DSA profile keycap sets are some of the more affordable keycap sets in this hobby.
I know you prefer low profile but you can also check out the price tag of keycap sets in some other profiles.
Welcome to this hobby! 

[hking0036]

Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps


Let me explain. MK noob here. I love the typing feel on my new Corsair Strafe MX Brown but HATE the keycaps. I've been looking around for "low profile" keycaps, all I can find are DSA ($$$) and even they don't look that they would be as comfortable as my work membrane board (Microsoft 600).

If you want low profile DSA is fairly cheap so long as you're not looking for a crazy colorway. I think enjoypbt does cherry profile caps and those are about $70 for a full set, so those may be worth looking into. I think corsair commits the cardinal sin of screwing with the bottom row though. That seems to be kind of popular for some reason, Logitech did the same thing with their g710+ before they made their own switches.

[davkol]

Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps

Doesn't make sense. See https://deskthority.net/wiki/Membrane_vs_rubber_dome

[menuhin]

Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps

Doesn't make sense. See https://deskthority.net/wiki/Membrane_vs_rubber_dome

Didn't know that page.
I like the 2x2 table, pretty self-explanatory.

[iFreilicht]

oh and one more thing. stupid artisan plastic kcs make me puke. yes they actually did.

You're not supposed to eat them lol. But I agree, most of them look absolutely hideous. The only Artisans I can maybe approve of are properly colour coordinated dual-color mods that fit the profile. Those can look quite neat.

everyone knows deep down that they'll never reach "endgame", this is really just a big money-spending orgy

I strongly believe that I have an endgame. At least for keycaps I'm starting to realise that I won't ever buy one of those fancy keycap sets. I want orange and white blanks, that is 100% perfect. Keycap sets interest me on for like an hour and then when I look at them the next day I think to myself "but they don't look as good as what I already have".
Now I just need to figure out what profile is best for me and then I'm done with keycaps. Heresy, I know.

[MandrewDavis]

Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps


Let me explain. MK noob here. I love the typing feel on my new Corsair Strafe MX Brown but HATE the keycaps. I've been looking around for "low profile" keycaps, all I can find are DSA ($$$) and even they don't look that they would be as comfortable as my work membrane board (Microsoft 600).

Then get a Cherry MX 3.0, you aren't going to find any decent sets that fit Corsair keyboards.

[DRAZAH]

After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

[Altis]

After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

My theory is that they're a little too similar to standard rubber dome keyboards and have little customization, making a lot of the enthusiasts seek something a little more different and exciting.

It's like a car enthusiast being bored with a brand new Lexus because what they want is an imported JDM R34 Skyline. 

I personally think Topre is objectively the best switch overall, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone, especially the enthusiasts. It's not like I don't have a bunch of other boards to spice it up. 

[alienman82]

removed.

[happylacquer]

After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

My theory is that they're a little too similar to standard rubber dome keyboards and have little customization, making a lot of the enthusiasts seek something a little more different and exciting.

It's like a car enthusiast being bored with a brand new Lexus because what they want is an imported JDM R34 Skyline. 

I personally think Topre is objectively the best switch overall, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone, especially the enthusiasts. It's not like I don't have a bunch of other boards to spice it up. 

jealous of your R34, USA import laws stink

What's the problem? importing into the USA is easy

[trenzafeeds]

What's the problem? importing into the USA is easy

not as much for cars
something something keeping car manufacturing jobs in the US

[zslane]

Unpopular opinion #635: we should stop calling keysets "<something> Dolch" just because the alphas are dark gray and the modifiers are medium gray, especially when the legends are not uniformly white and/or more than one or two keys are some bright color. I mean, c'mon, what would Volker think?

[happylacquer]

What's the problem? importing into the USA is easy

not as much for cars
something something keeping car manufacturing jobs in the US

Oh yeah.... cars is hard.
i should have read more post context

[Niomosy]

After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I can easily see it.  Price and availability can be big for many.  Cherry MX boards are more available in retail locations like Best Buy at times.  A lot of people are going to be able to buy an MX based board without even knowing that Topre exists.  They're also often found at less than half the price of a RealForce board.

Personally, I haven't had a need for a Topre board.  I bought a Ducky with MX reds and have been using it ever since.  By the time I wanted to try out other keyboards, I was after specific layouts or switches that put Topre out of the picture. 

[mike52787]

topre sucks

[Niomosy]

topre sucks

I've yet to actually use one so I can't really comment.  Maybe if they made a 75% with media key support or a VE.A type layout or such, I'd buy one.

[happylacquer]

After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I can easily see it.  Price and availability can be big for many.  Cherry MX boards are more available in retail locations like Best Buy at times.  A lot of people are going to be able to buy an MX based board without even knowing that Topre exists.  They're also often found at less than half the price of a RealForce board.

Personally, I haven't had a need for a Topre board.  I bought a Ducky with MX reds and have been using it ever since.  By the time I wanted to try out other keyboards, I was after specific layouts or switches that put Topre out of the picture.

Good Cherrys are Red
Bad Cherrys are Blue
Linear is sweet
What up to Cherry MX Red Crew

[dante]

After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I've tried Topre but the key travel distance is too long for me.  I would definitely be interested in an ANSI board using Topre short throw switches but am uncertain if those are even in production anymore.

[Niomosy]

After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I can easily see it.  Price and availability can be big for many.  Cherry MX boards are more available in retail locations like Best Buy at times.  A lot of people are going to be able to buy an MX based board without even knowing that Topre exists.  They're also often found at less than half the price of a RealForce board.

Personally, I haven't had a need for a Topre board.  I bought a Ducky with MX reds and have been using it ever since.  By the time I wanted to try out other keyboards, I was after specific layouts or switches that put Topre out of the picture.

Good Cherrys are Red
Bad Cherrys are Blue
Linear is sweet
What up to Cherry MX Red Crew

Linear4lyfe

Looking forward to the XMIT hall effect board arriving next month.  That will be interesting to try.

[mike52787]

After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I can easily see it.  Price and availability can be big for many.  Cherry MX boards are more available in retail locations like Best Buy at times.  A lot of people are going to be able to buy an MX based board without even knowing that Topre exists.  They're also often found at less than half the price of a RealForce board.

Personally, I haven't had a need for a Topre board.  I bought a Ducky with MX reds and have been using it ever since.  By the time I wanted to try out other keyboards, I was after specific layouts or switches that put Topre out of the picture.

Good Cherrys are Red
Bad Cherrys are Blue
Linear is sweet
What up to Cherry MX Red Crew

agreed that mx blue sucks

[DRAZAH]

After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I can easily see it.  Price and availability can be big for many.  Cherry MX boards are more available in retail locations like Best Buy at times.  A lot of people are going to be able to buy an MX based board without even knowing that Topre exists.  They're also often found at less than half the price of a RealForce board.

Personally, I haven't had a need for a Topre board.  I bought a Ducky with MX reds and have been using it ever since.  By the time I wanted to try out other keyboards, I was after specific layouts or switches that put Topre out of the picture.

Good Cherrys are Red
Bad Cherrys are Blue
Linear is sweet
What up to Cherry MX Red Crew

agreed that mx blue sucks

I guess the problem with me was that I had tried a lot of MX switches and I found none of them pleasing. I used a crappy blackwidow with genuine MX Blues for like 4 years and with a mix of things happening in my life tied with discovering this community I quickly realized how much I hate the sound of Blues. I can't stand anything that is loud or makes that cheap "click" or plastic-y "clack" sound. I got a MF68 with Gateron Reds that I used for about 5 months. I got a 17 piece keyboard switch, I tried some donor borrow boards. The only thing that was anything close to something I liked were the 67g Zealio that I had on my tester switch. After realizing no MX switch worked for me, I went balls deep into an HHKB with Hyperspheres specifically for the sound that it makes. I was always listening to Topre sound tests on youtube but for some reason never thought about buying one. Got my HHKB with hyperspheres. Lubed the entire thing, made custom foam cutouts for the back plate to remove the case flex (feels denser, less hollow). Its basically my dream keyboard and don't see myself going back to MX ever again. I have a ton of artisan blanks on the way and I want to 55g swap it.

[fatbuffalo]

Good cherry is black.
Vintage black.
End of story.

[cheddarbek]

Good cherry is black.
Vintage black.
End of story.

Easiest way to fix MX switches: heavier Springs.

Reds are ****. Blacks are godly.

Blues are ****. Greens are pretty decent.


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[menuhin]

topre sucks

It's personal taste.
But one thing can't be denied is that it is the only non-contact (by its capacitive design) switch in the current market, if we don't count the remake of Hall effect switch.

[alienman82]

removed.

[menuhin]

topre sucks

It's personal taste.
But one thing can't be denied is that it is the only non-contact (by its capacitive design) switch in the current market, if we don't count the remake of Hall effect switch.

hall effect is overrated, I have some, too damn tall, and layouts all suck.

also, it really isn't that smooth

Okay, legend debunked.
I think of those Heath Zenith boards, and Space-Cadet Lisp machine keyboards - still very rare though. The smoothness should depend a lot of the qualities and engineering of the moving parts, which should have not much to do with the magnet and the magnetic sensor itself.

[Niomosy]

Good cherry is black.
Vintage black.
End of story.

Easiest way to fix MX switches: heavier Springs.

Reds are ****. Blacks are godly.

Blues are ****. Greens are pretty decent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Easiest way to fix MX switches: lighter springs.

Reds are godly.  Blacks are tiring.

Don't care about blues.  No interest in greens.  About the only tactile switches I want to try are beam springs and capacitive buckling springs.

[zslane]

MX reds are great, but too noisy in most boards. MX pinks are much quieter, but probably disturbingly so for any user whose comfort zone depends on all the clatter.

MX blacks are too hard on my wee little fingers. Never tried vintage blacks.

Topre switches feel great, but they need to be silenced and they need to have MX mounts for them to be usable to me.

I really want to try XMIT's new Hall Effect switches. If they are as quiet as MX pinks, but even smoother (i.e., they evidence less slider friction), they may supplant MX pinks as the best MX-compatible linear switch available.

All other switches are pretty much irrelevant to me. Clicky switches are for the birds, unless I'm trying to serve homage to typewriters of old, but I've not found an MX-compatible clicky switch where the noise comes exclusively from the click leaf.

[dante]

MX blacks are too hard on my wee little fingers. Never tried vintage blacks.

I don't mind MX Blacks but definitely need MX Reds on the stabilized keys.

[alienman82]

removed.

[dante]

All this happened before, and will happen again, again, again...

[clankgy1]

After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

Probably not an unpopular explanation (sorry for being off topic in this thread), but two main reasons contribute to lack of Topre adaption:

1. Price - *Decent* topre boards start at $150 usd, and HHKB and RF > $200 usd
2. Non MX stems - Less options for keysets
3. Fixed cable (RF) - Stupid decision IMO

IMO, HHKB Pro2 Topre is the top typing kb in terms of feel in a stock config hands down.

[dante]

IMO, HHKB Pro2 Topre is the top typing kb in terms of feel in a stock config hands down.

HHKB feels like the Dell of the Topre family.

[Weltschmerz]

Here's one for you guys.

I will never own a keyboard that doesn't have arrow keys on it, because I play Crypt of the Necrodancer and Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth. HHKB and 60% are neat and all, but they will never serve my needs like they need to.

[iFreilicht]

Here's one for you guys.

I will never own a keyboard that doesn't have arrow keys on it, because I play Crypt of the Necrodancer and Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth. HHKB and 60% are neat and all, but they will never serve my needs like they need to.

Not unpopular. I've seen people put dedicated arrow keys on Plancks, so that's not an excuse not to go small Also, what about having a dedicated layer just for games? That would make it possible even on a 30%.

[xtrafrood]

Here's one for you guys.

I will never own a keyboard that doesn't have arrow keys on it, because I play Crypt of the Necrodancer and Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth. HHKB and 60% are neat and all, but they will never serve my needs like they need to.

Not unpopular. I've seen people put dedicated arrow keys on Plancks, so that's not an excuse not to go small Also, what about having a dedicated layer just for games? That would make it possible even on a 30%.

I get it. I use arrow keys for little things like moving a cursor around while typing into them forum text boxes. Or other text boxes. I haven't graduated from Nano just yet. HHKBs look soo cushiony though. So bouncy. 

[E3E]

While I feel like I have an intuitive layer for Arrow keys on  my 60% boards, I also prefer a dedicated cluster, which is what turned me onto TKLs. 75% and 65% are nice too, but I would prefer 75% over 65%.

Though, here's a possibly unpopular opinion: 75% boards have a "slab of keys" look that can be a bit unattractive. They're like an acquired taste, even though they were the first layout I jumped on.

I'm not  feeling it so much these days. I like the separation of a TKL. I probably would get an Alps 75% if ever one was made.

[iLLucionist]

IMO, HHKB Pro2 Topre is the top typing kb in terms of feel in a stock config hands down.

HHKB feels like the Dell of the Topre family.

But why?

[iLLucionist]

Probably shared by more fellow GH'ers, but I need to say this: THE NEW TOUCHBAR MACBOOK "PRO" HAS A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE KEYBOARD.

I tried it out yesterday. WTF Apple. Has anyone tried that keyboard? Man... it is so bad it made me appreciate rubberdomes!

[iFreilicht]

Though, here's a possibly unpopular opinion: 75% boards have a "slab of keys" look that can be a bit unattractive. They're like an acquired taste, even though they were the first layout I jumped on.

I hear ya. 75% just look kinda weird, but I couldn't exactly tell you why. Maybe it's because of their aspect ratio? I think boards like the ZZ96 look stunning, but they're basically 75%s with a numpad stuck directly to the side, but that also makes them quite wide and thus maybe more pleasing to the eye.

[dante]

Probably shared by more fellow GH'ers, but I need to say this: THE NEW TOUCHBAR MACBOOK "PRO" HAS A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE KEYBOARD.

I tried it out yesterday. WTF Apple. Has anyone tried that keyboard? Man... it is so bad it made me appreciate rubberdomes!

Wow.  I need to visit an Apple store and try this.

[iLLucionist]

Probably shared by more fellow GH'ers, but I need to say this: THE NEW TOUCHBAR MACBOOK "PRO" HAS A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE KEYBOARD.

I tried it out yesterday. WTF Apple. Has anyone tried that keyboard? Man... it is so bad it made me appreciate rubberdomes!

Wow.  I need to visit an Apple store and try this.

Please do and report back, I'm curious what you think. My GF and I, we're both academics (I'm also a programmer). And immediately we were like "wtf I'm NOT going to type a whole paper on this. W-T-F. Ok, Lenovo T260 then." (she has a HHKB as main driver).

The unibody Macbook Pro and the macbook pro before that had perfect keyboards if you ask me. It's been downhill ever since. The retina MacBook Pro's already had somewhat compromised keyboards, and than the even more shallow feel of the MacBook Air.