Aluminium TKL Case - TEK-80 - CAD Files inside!

[CPTBadAss]

I'm not quite sure as I've worked very sparingly with AutoCad. I just know that most shops want "the AutoCad file". It might be a dxf that the shops want.

[Leslieann]

I know what you mean, but I really can't see another mounting method that will support both the stock filco plate and the universal tkl/phantom plate. Besides, I'm fairly confident that the two screws will hold the plate in place and do a good job of reducing flex. I'm aware of the fact that the pcb hangs under the plate, and this will do the exact same. Think of this case as an aluminium replica of the filco case but with a few extra features. Also, I have a universal tkl plate right in front of me and it definitely isn't flimsy.. You need to put a fair amount of force on it in order to flex it.

It's not just flex, two screws may hold it, and it may be stiff enough (I would question long term on aluminum plates), that doesn't mean it's going to resist vibration. I suspect the "ping" people hear on Filcos and some other boards is related to this. Hold your Uni plate various ways while tapping with your fingernail and you will see what I mean. It's one reason why my Vortex is stuffed with foam. Less vibration means less noise.

Above all though, why compromise? It's meant to be a top notch case, why not make a plate and proper mounting system. People here drop $100 on keycaps, but are too cheap to spend another $20-$30 to get a plate that matches their $200 case?

[Photekq]

I know what you mean, but I really can't see another mounting method that will support both the stock filco plate and the universal tkl/phantom plate. Besides, I'm fairly confident that the two screws will hold the plate in place and do a good job of reducing flex. I'm aware of the fact that the pcb hangs under the plate, and this will do the exact same. Think of this case as an aluminium replica of the filco case but with a few extra features. Also, I have a universal tkl plate right in front of me and it definitely isn't flimsy.. You need to put a fair amount of force on it in order to flex it.

It's not just flex, two screws may hold it, and it may be stiff enough (I would question long term on aluminum plates), that doesn't mean it's going to resist vibration. I suspect the "ping" people hear on Filcos and some other boards is related to this. Hold your Uni plate various ways while tapping with your fingernail and you will see what I mean. It's one reason why my Vortex is stuffed with foam. Less vibration means less noise.

Above all though, why compromise? It's meant to be a top notch case, why not make a plate and proper mounting system. People here drop $100 on keycaps, but are too cheap to spend another $20-$30 to get a plate that matches their $200 case?

I think you're right. After thinking about it I realised that it would probably end up being cheaper with a new plate and no standoffs than it would be with the current design. It's actually easier on my end to design it this way too. My only worry is that some people might not want to have to install a new plate. I'll keep the old design, but I'll make a new one with a new plate and see how it goes.

[WhiteFireDragon]

Here's my input on this. Every single feature you put in will add extra cost to the process. Even 1 extra fillet, chamfer, or hole. I've seen some intricate designs for a simple concept (non keyboard related), and the quote for it was several thousand dollars lol. So when you design it, just keep in mind how they're going to manufacture it and how many steps it will take.

Little things to think about now when you're designing it: it must be thick enough for screws and threads. The side walls must be thicker than screw heads, and if you're going to use removable standoffs, the bottom must be thick enough to have threads that won't go all the way through. There are only a limited choice on standoffs and I only found this out after designing my case. The standoff length and thread length that I designed the case for, was not available.

Lastly, it looks like you extruded the base, then used the shell feature. Since the very bottom of the base is not on the same plane as the plate, the standoff or threads will have to be angled. This won't be as easy to mill out or thread, so you might have to change the way you extrude, shell, or extrude cut.

Just FYI, if you take this to a shop, I believe that Solidworks will not output a .dwg file. Most shops prefer the .dwg file which is from AutoCad. I know The_Beast had to remake his drawings in AutoCad because of this.

Turns out that you can export as a DWG in solidworks just fine, unless there is some difference between a dwg from solidworks and a dwg from autocad that I'm not aware of.

solidworks can export/convert to almost any file format. But converting sometimes is not as good as the original, depending on which format you convert it to. For example, some formats won't allow you to save the design tree or history. I had a hard time making the exported dwg file to work with Mastercam2000, even though I specified the correct version.

[CPTBadAss]

Just FYI, if you take this to a shop, I believe that Solidworks will not output a .dwg file. Most shops prefer the .dwg file which is from AutoCad. I know The_Beast had to remake his drawings in AutoCad because of this.

Turns out that you can export as a DWG in solidworks just fine, unless there is some difference between a dwg from solidworks and a dwg from autocad that I'm not aware of.

solidworks can export/convert to almost any file format. But converting sometimes is not as good as the original, depending on which format you convert it to. For example, some formats won't allow you to save the design tree or history. I had a hard time making the exported dwg file to work with Mastercam2000, even though I specified the correct version.

Thanks for the info!

[Photekq]

After a lot of thought I've decided it'll be best for everyone if the plate gets screwed directly onto the case. Even with the cost of a new plate it should end up cheaper than the old design since the standoffs won't have to milled. I can also easily make variants of the plate to suit different boards such at the QFR and other TKL boards. Literally the only downside is having to install a new plate.

Here's what I've got so far. Thanks a lot WFD for letting me use your switch hole design.

Here's my input on this. Every single feature you put in will add extra cost to the process. Even 1 extra fillet, chamfer, or hole. I've seen some intricate designs for a simple concept (non keyboard related), and the quote for it was several thousand dollars lol. So when you design it, just keep in mind how they're going to manufacture it and how many steps it will take.
When the design is done the people that are going to be doing the milling will go over the design with me and tell me where I can cut on costs. The case will probably end up having no fillets whatsoever inside. At the moment I'm just.. well.. making the ideal case I guess.

Little things to think about now when you're designing it: it must be thick enough for screws and threads. The side walls must be thicker than screw heads, and if you're going to use removable standoffs, the bottom must be thick enough to have threads that won't go all the way through. There are only a limited choice on standoffs and I only found this out after designing my case. The standoff length and thread length that I designed the case for, was not available.
Don't worry I'll be making sure that all screws have the space they need.

Lastly, it looks like you extruded the base, then used the shell feature. Since the very bottom of the base is not on the same plane as the plate, the standoff or threads will have to be angled. This won't be as easy to mill out or thread, so you might have to change the way you extrude, shell, or extrude cut.
One less thing I have to worry about with the new design.

Just FYI, if you take this to a shop, I believe that Solidworks will not output a .dwg file. Most shops prefer the .dwg file which is from AutoCad. I know The_Beast had to remake his drawings in AutoCad because of this.

Turns out that you can export as a DWG in solidworks just fine, unless there is some difference between a dwg from solidworks and a dwg from autocad that I'm not aware of.

solidworks can export/convert to almost any file format. But converting sometimes is not as good as the original, depending on which format you convert it to. For example, some formats won't allow you to save the design tree or history. I had a hard time making the exported dwg file to work with Mastercam2000, even though I specified the correct version.

[Leslieann]

Looks great!
And yes, more freedom on the design end can certainly make things easier and give a better result overall.

So... where do I send my money. LOL

[CPTBadAss]

WFD I have a related question. Have you ever had issues with the board flexing when it's being lasered? Like the heat generated caused a plate to warp?

[pasph]

Please consider also an ISO plate

[Photekq]

Please consider also an ISO plate

Don't worry. I'll be making iso 1.5 and 1.25, ansi 1.5 and 1.25 as well as 7bit plates. Just need to get the general plate layout finalised first.

Btw is there any interest in an ansi or iso layout but with the spaces for keys about the arrows like on the 7bit?

[pasph]

Please consider also an ISO plate

Don't worry. I'll be making iso 1.5 and 1.25, ansi 1.5 and 1.25 as well as 7bit plates. Just need to get the general plate layout finalised first.

Btw is there any interest in an ansi or iso layout but with the spaces for keys about the arrows like on the 7bit?

yes

[Photekq]

Here's what I've done so far with the new mounting. Still unsure whether or not to actually keep the LED holes. Does anyone even want them?

[calavera]

Hmm..make the LED hole an option?

[Photekq]

And now some eye candy..

[Leslieann]

For LED's I would recommend the same I said in another thread similar to this... Mill pinholes. If you want LED's they will shine through, if you don't, you just see two small black dots where they would be.




An alternative method on the case design...
It's a bit unconventional, but something I thought about a while back. It makes the top a little more expensive, but the rest of it would actually be much cheaper (I would think) to produce.

Recess the plate into the top, you have to mill the top and bottom of the top regardless of what you do, so do most of your milling here. If you make the bottom 2 piece like The Cheat, the middle piece can be milled in a single operation, from the underside. You don't have to flip it, or spend a long time hogging out the center, you can laser it out or mill it out in a chunk. Being 2 piece it also means you can use thinner stock, allows multiple color options and most of the work could even be laser cut instead of milled. The bottom plate as well can be milled in a single operation from thin stock, as well as laser cut initially or entirely. On the second pic, the bottom plate is recessed and could be entirely laser cut, but requires thicker stock on the center section to cover the ends.

On this design, you also don't need "tabs" on the plate, just leave it as a straight edge and let the top and bottom clamp it in between them while passing the screws through it. This would reinforce the heck out of the top plate., just leave a small lip on the top to hide it.

Quickly edited in Photoshop so you will have to forgive the imprecision. LOL
Again, just an alternative. Looks great so far though and I would buy either design.

[calavera]

And now some eye candy..

That looks like a KMAC.

The tabs on the sides of the plate don't have to be the same size as the top and bottom ones do they? Can you make the bezels (sides at least) slimmer?

[cyberwave]

aw man! i just got WFD's universal tkl plate 

looks like i gotta prep my wallet for another bout of damage 

[dirge]

You actually use that layout on a regular basis, dirge? I don't know how anyone can type with those small spacebars like that.

Not my daily driver, I break it out now and again to play games.

[4LI4Z]

You could also consider to make the plate out of stainless steel, I think that would also add some extra stability.

[Photekq]

And now some eye candy..

That looks like a KMAC.

The tabs on the sides of the plate don't have to be the same size as the top and bottom ones do they? Can you make the bezels (sides at least) slimmer?

I don't think there even need to be tabs on the side. I don't see any reason why I can't make it thinner at the sides as there will still be room for all neccessary screws.

[Photekq]

For LED's I would recommend the same I said in another thread similar to this... Mill pinholes. If you want LED's they will shine through, if you don't, you just see two small black dots where they would be.




An alternative method on the case design...
It's a bit unconventional, but something I thought about a while back. It makes the top a little more expensive, but the rest of it would actually be much cheaper (I would think) to produce.

Recess the plate into the top, you have to mill the top and bottom of the top regardless of what you do, so do most of your milling here. If you make the bottom 2 piece like The Cheat, the middle piece can be milled in a single operation, from the underside. You don't have to flip it, or spend a long time hogging out the center, you can laser it out or mill it out in a chunk. Being 2 piece it also means you can use thinner stock, allows multiple color options and most of the work could even be laser cut instead of milled. The bottom plate as well can be milled in a single operation from thin stock, as well as laser cut initially or entirely. On the second pic, the bottom plate is recessed and could be entirely laser cut, but requires thicker stock on the center section to cover the ends.

On this design, you also don't need "tabs" on the plate, just leave it as a straight edge and let the top and bottom clamp it in between them while passing the screws through it. This would reinforce the heck out of the top plate., just leave a small lip on the top to hide it.

Quickly edited in Photoshop so you will have to forgive the imprecision. LOL
Again, just an alternative. Looks great so far though and I would buy either design.

That seems like a great idea. The current one could be easily adjusted to fit that design too. I'll try and find out which one is more cost effective at a later date, when it's a bit closer to being ready for a prototype.

[Photekq]

Okay so I think I've come up with a viable solution for the detachable cable. If I were to simply attach a breakout board to the case it wouldn't work. The cable would have to be soldered to the breakout board, and we all know how hard it is to remove the weird molex connector from the pcb. In short, it would be bloody tricky to remove the cable once soldered.

I noticed that the size of the breakout board was pretty close to the size of a hot/cold shoe (the ones you put a flash into on a dslr). I'll order a breakout board and see if I can make it fit nicely. If it works then it'll be a tidy, cheap solution.

[WhiteFireDragon]

WFD I have a related question. Have you ever had issues with the board flexing when it's being lasered? Like the heat generated caused a plate to warp?

It's not going to cause the whole sheet to bend, but there will be some local warping right where the laser shoots at. Stainless steel seems to be more resistant to this than aluminum.

Or this could be a solution:
http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/index.php?mid=photo&page=3&document_srl=6172970
I don't know the details but if those small micro usb pcb is available, then soldering the cable shouldn't be too hard.

These are called "breakout" boards. There are many variants so it shouldn't be hard to source. Something like this:

http://www.robotshop.com/sfe-usb-microb-breakout-board.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=jos

I think you're right. After thinking about it I realised that it would probably end up being cheaper with a new plate and no standoffs than it would be with the current design. It's actually easier on my end to design it this way too. My only worry is that some people might not want to have to install a new plate. I'll keep the old design, but I'll make a new one with a new plate and see how it goes.

If you're not going to do standoffs anymore, then it'll need a new custom plate to fit the case. Most people do not have desoldering equipment to transfer the PCB and switches to the new plate. I just know this will be a huge turn-off for many people.

[Photekq]

WFD I have a related question. Have you ever had issues with the board flexing when it's being lasered? Like the heat generated caused a plate to warp?

It's not going to cause the whole sheet to bend, but there will be some local warping right where the laser shoots at. Stainless steel seems to be more resistant to this than aluminum.

Or this could be a solution:
http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/index.php?mid=photo&page=3&document_srl=6172970
I don't know the details but if those small micro usb pcb is available, then soldering the cable shouldn't be too hard.

These are called "breakout" boards. There are many variants so it shouldn't be hard to source. Something like this:

http://www.robotshop.com/sfe-usb-microb-breakout-board.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=jos

I think you're right. After thinking about it I realised that it would probably end up being cheaper with a new plate and no standoffs than it would be with the current design. It's actually easier on my end to design it this way too. My only worry is that some people might not want to have to install a new plate. I'll keep the old design, but I'll make a new one with a new plate and see how it goes.

If you're not going to do standoffs anymore, then it'll need a new custom plate to fit the case. Most people do not have desoldering equipment to transfer the PCB and switches to the new plate. I just know this will be a huge turn-off for many people.

I've already roughly designed a new plate with areas to screw it on to the case which you're able to see in some of my previous posts. I understand that not everyone has soldering equipment which is why the original design is not completely out the window. I'm just experimenting with alternative designs. I've already ordered the exact breakout board you linked and I reckon with a little bit of sanding it'll fit into a cold-shoe which I will mount onto the case.

[Photekq]

Micro USB breakout arrived. The two holes are the perfect size for the M2.5 screws that hold the Filco's plate onto the standoffs. Once I've added a mount for this onto the case and added a few small features such as places for rubber feet the case will pretty much complete. I've decided to go with the custom plate design since it's much less trouble for me, and it should be a superior mounting solution. I know that some people may not have soldering equipment but if you're willing to spend money on an aluminium case then what's stopping you from buying a £10 soldering iron and £5 of solder?

[Leslieann]

Is that mini or micro.. micro really isn't the best thing to use, they just aren't very durable.

[metalliqaz]

I think they are equally durable but keyboards do seem to standardize on mini, so that probably makes it the best choice.

[danielucf]

I thought micro USB was more durable than mini and designed for 1000s of connects/disconnects. I believe the WASD TKL will be micro USB.

[Photekq]

It's micro. esoomenona suggested it to me earlier in the thread and I completely understand why. The cable won't be coming out unless you want it to. The same can't be said for mini.

[Leslieann]

The original micro wasn't as tough, the newer stronger ones I don't think have really trickled down yet.

It's not connect and disconnects that worries me, it's the movement of the cable. I can point you to numerous cell phones where the connector has been damaged through cables being moved and bumped or slightly out of spec cables messing them up severely, the HTC Evo 4g is well known for this problem.

[Photekq]

The original micro wasn't as tough, the newer stronger ones I don't think have really trickled down yet.

It's not connect and disconnects that worries me, it's the movement of the cable. I can point you to numerous cell phones where the connector has been damaged through cables being moved and bumped or slightly out of spec cables messing them up severely, the HTC Evo 4g is well known for this problem.

Really? I was aware that the housing around the connector can be broken quite easily by a cable being moved, but I didn't think the connector itself breaking was all that common. I'll look into this, although I would personally prefer micro over mini. In the past I've had far too many problems with the mini usb connector coming out when I don't want it to. I very much doubt I'll have the same problem with micro.

In fact.. It would probably be fairly easy to make the mount so you can choose whether you want micro or mini.

Here's the mount at the minute. It's very simple, but I believe it will be perfect. Screws will hold the breakout board securely in place, there's a large hole for the connector to fit into but the hole goes from large into a shaped hole which makes it look nice and tidy. However, I'm considering removing the shaped hole in order to make this easily compatible with mini-usb.

[ishumprod]

last updates look gorgeous

[Leslieann]

Really? I was aware that the housing around the connector can be broken quite easily by a cable being moved, but I didn't think the connector itself breaking was all that common. I'll look into this, although I would personally prefer micro over mini. In the past I've had far too many problems with the mini usb connector coming out when I don't want it to. I very much doubt I'll have the same problem with micro.

The housing usually becomes loose and then the connector itself fails due to that. As a result a newer, stronger housing has been designed, but as I said, I don't know how far down the supply line it has trickled.

I do agree though, mini pops out to easy and it wasn't really designed for repeated cable swapping.

The design looks good.

[Photekq]

I've now finalised the plate design, plate mounts and usb mount.

I had to change the usb mount slightly so that the breakout board comes into contact with a right angle instead of an 84 degree angle, but otherwise it's practically the same.

Changed the plate mount so there's space for screws etc.

Now I just need to do the following :

-Apply new plate design to other layouts
-Adjust 7bit and winkeyless top halves slightly
-Add small things such as places for rubber feet
-Add screwholes (I already know where I'm putting them and what screws I'm using. Just haven't got round to it yet.)

Once those things are done and I've triple checked the design I'll get a quote for a prototype!

[calavera]

The shorter side walls/bezels are going to remain that thick?

[Photekq]

The shorter side walls/bezels are going to remain that thick?

It's the way that it's gotta be unless I make it so that one set of screws go through the bottom, plate and top instead of having the plate screwed to the bottom and then having the bottom screwed to the top. This is something I'm exploring right now, and it may end up being a better alternative.

[calavera]

I don't follow. Based on the pic it looks like screws only mount on the top and bottom wall, not the left and right side walls?

[Photekq]

I don't follow. Based on the pic it looks like screws only mount on the top and bottom wall, not the left and right side walls?

Sorry, ignore what I said. I have overlooked something and will change it. Once I've changed the plate slightly the side walls should be 5mm thick instead of the current 10mm.

[Photekq]

I can confidently say that the case is 99% finalised. The 1% is only tiny details.

I have :
-Made the side walls 5mm thick instead of 9mm thick
-Centered the switch holes on the plate
-Changed plate mounting arrangement
-Change mount slightly - hole is no longer usb-shaped
-Added holes for rubber feet (I have also ordered said feet)

I should be able to get a rough quote for the milling tomorrow. Hopefully it'll be nice and low.

[calavera]

Very nice. This will fit a stock filco plate/pcb as well correct? I couldn't really tell by looking at the renderings. Do you have a side view showing the profile of the case? I wanna see how much space there is under the PCB.

[Photekq]

Very nice. This will fit a stock filco plate/pcb as well correct? I couldn't really tell by looking at the renderings. Do you have a side view showing the profile of the case? I wanna see how much space there is under the PCB.

It'll fit a stock filco pcb, but not the plate since I have removed the standoffs from the design, and this case is not designed to clamp a curved plate like the vortex.. Here's a cross section and the dimensions of the bottom part of the case. The base is 5mm thick, so there is a 8mm gap at the front. The bottom of the pcb hangs around 7mm from the top of the plate iirc, so there is 1mm of space below at the front, but since it's at an angle there's way more space at the back - enough for the filco cable connector as well as the phantom's controller..

Y'know.. you got me thinking about the stock filco plate. Maybe it would be possible to double up the design so that it can clamp the stock plate like the Vortex case does and it can also support custom plates. We'll see - I can't promise anything, and I highly doubt I could make it work.

[calavera]

I assume you're going to be making the plate too? If so then it's quite possible to have the case accept both yours and a stock filco plate. You'd have to make your plate taller though so all four sides still rest on the side walls of the case.

[Photekq]

I assume you're going to be making the plate too? If so then it's quite possible to have the case accept both yours and a stock filco plate.

Yes, I will be making the plate. I will definitely look into this - I would love to be able to make this case work with the stock plate.

[Photekq]

Added platforms for the stock filco plate. The case will now work with the stock filco (maybe the QFR too - the plates look identical) plate as well as the custom one that i'll be making.

Thanks calavera for reminding me about the stock plate and for explaining a few things.

[calavera]

That is awesome! May be a few things to consider: When a filco plate is in place, the top case should overlap with the plate edges so it adds another layer of securing the plate. Judging from the side views, the overlap surface seem very small or nonexistent. The reason behind this being that filco plate will just sit there held together by the top case only, no screws.

Does the filco plate align with the top surface of the bottom case? What thickness is your plate going to be?

[Leslieann]

Very nice!

Also, any plans for feet?

[Photekq]

That is awesome! May be a few things to consider: When a filco plate is in place, the top case should overlap with the plate edges so it adds another layer of securing the plate. Judging from the side views, the overlap surface seem very small or nonexistent. The reason behind this being that filco plate will just sit there held together by the top case only, no screws.

Does the filco plate align with the top surface of the bottom case? What thickness is your plate going to be?

Yeah. I was going to adjust the top slightly so that it overlaps the stock plate, just haven't got round to it yet. I have designed it so that the top surface of the filco plate will be flush with the top surface of the bottom case. The bottom of the plate curves are 5mm from the top of the plate, and the platforms are 5mm from the top of the case - hopefully it should fit perfectly.

The custom plate will be 2mm thick, slightly thicker than the phantom/universal TKL plates which were 1/16 inch (around 1.5mm).

Very nice!

Also, any plans for feet?

I wasn't planning on including feet since the board will already have a 6 degree slant to it.. Does anyone even want a larger slant than that? I mean it would be easy for me to add screwholes for feet, but I wouldn't want to supply the feet since it would only add to costs.

Are those circular aluminium feet that are used a lot in korean boards available anywhere to buy?

[cyberwave]

current universal plates already have trouble fitting costar stabilisers properly due to its thickness

if your plate is even thicker than that, i doubt costar stabilisers can be used

[jdcarpe]

current universal plates already have trouble fitting costar stabilisers properly due to its thickness

if your plate is even thicker than that, i doubt costar stabilisers can be used

Correct. Costar spec is 0.060"

[Photekq]

current universal plates already have trouble fitting costar stabilisers properly due to its thickness

if your plate is even thicker than that, i doubt costar stabilisers can be used

I see.. No wonder WFD sanded the stabiliser holes down for me. Right, well, the plate won't be 2mm anymore. It'll probably be closer to 1.5. I'll look more into this - thanks for letting me know.