Matias Ergo Pro debuts at CES

[bcredbottle]

.

[Luminair]

5. I understand the need to add Cut, Copy, Paste, Undo to the left half to balance out the two halves, but if this was the primary goal, I'd suggest the following: expose Cut, Copy, and Paste in a cluster and above that have another dedicated cluster for Undo and Redo. To me, a dedicated Undo without a corresponding Redo doesn't make much sense. You could use the space currently occupied by the overly large Escape key, and turn Esc back into a normal-sized key (or slightly elongated key) directly above the tilde.

I used to think these side keys were useless. My opinion has now evolved after reading this.

Cut/Copy/Paste/Undo are all easily accessed with the normal ctrl+ shortcuts. REDO is not. If I ever want to flip back and forth, undoing/redoing, it's a hassle. So I can now see a reason for these side keys: Providing a block with Undo and Redo.

I still predict that these keys will be unusuable when mashed together in one block. There is poor muscle memory learning this new layout, and it seems error-prone.

So I think the design would be better with Undo+Redo next to each other, then a space, then Cut+Copy, then another space, then Paste. You will pay for this extra space by making the Escape key a normal size, because it does NOT need to be huge. It is not frequently used, plus it is easy to find, so a smaller key is fine.

Illustration:

Esc

Undo
Redo

Copy
Cut

Paste

Fn

After thinking this through, this is the first time I've thought I might actually USE this kind of shortcut block on a custom keyboard. But the spaces are required, and the undo+redo is required, to get me on board.

[rsadek]

I'm rather excited about the undo/copy/paste keys. I do these operations many times daily; using the command key, left-handed, contorting my thumb underneath the rest of my hand. I'm sure many people do the same.

It's a bad habit I have been unable to break. The contrition exacerbates the RSI-induced pain and inflammation in my radial tendon (by the thumb. flexor carpi radialis to be specific). I imagine several readers may have the same RSI.

For me, a few new keys to reduce this repetition will be a welcome relief. I'm willing to spend the effort to build muscle memory. Which is one of many reasons I can't wait to get my ergo pro

 

[crazystu]

I'm rather excited about the undo/copy/paste keys. I do these operations many times daily; using the command key, left-handed, contorting my thumb underneath the rest of my hand. I'm sure many people do the same.

One really nice thing about the Ergo Pro is the location of the Command key (below X/C), means you need to contort your thumb significantly less.
Similar deal with Ctrl, you stretch your pinky considerably less compared to a standard bottom row.

[Matias]

I'm rather excited about the undo/copy/paste keys. I do these operations many times daily; using the command key, left-handed, contorting my thumb underneath the rest of my hand. I'm sure many people do the same.

One really nice thing about the Ergo Pro is the location of the Command key (below X/C), means you need to contort your thumb significantly less.
Similar deal with Ctrl, you stretch your pinky considerably less compared to a standard bottom row.

Yes, that is the current popular way for triggering Command key shortcuts, and we've tried to make it as comfortable as possible with nice big Command keys, positioned where you expect them.

Interesting historical sidenote...  If you look at much older Mac keyboards, the left Command key is wider (1.75u) and further to the left.  That made it easier to do Copy/Paste -- rest two smallest fingers on Command and Middle/Index fingers naturally land on C/V for Copy/Paste -- but awkward for other shortcuts.

[jacobolus]

One really nice thing about the Ergo Pro is the location of the Command key (below X/C), means you need to contort your thumb significantly less. Similar deal with Ctrl, you stretch your pinky considerably less compared to a standard bottom row.

There’s definitely a downside to staying so close to standard key positions though. For instance, I think the modifiers can be much more accessible still with layouts more like:

or

etc. (not to mention layouts with column stagger and a bunch of extra thumb keys)

On the Ergopro...

... I still find option, control, right shift, return, backslash, backward delete, forward delete, backtick, escape, function, all the F keys, and much of the number row somewhat awkward/tricky to reach.

As you say though, it is an improvement over the standard IBM layout.

[crazystu]

Those layouts look great (with a few quibbles). I'd love to have a keyboard with modifiers similar to that, but I doubt it would be very appealing to the general public unfortunately (are there any that exist?).
I think Matias did the best they could whilst keeping the layout close to standard ANSI.

[jacobolus]

Reddit review by kactusotp: http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2z3lrc/review_matias_ergo_pro_mep_review_after_using_it/

A few weeks ago I did a little unboxing and mini review after my Matias Ergo Pro arrived I promised I would do a full review after about a week... well here it is 3 weeks later instead See the imgur gallery in the link above if you want more pics.

Some background, I’ve been using Microsoft Natural keyboard since I built my fist pc back in 97 (before that I was an Amiga man) and I’ve gone through a total of 3 of them in that time. All have failed due to drink spills (two of those where my fault). In addition to this I’ve had them at every work place since I graduated from uni, so to say I’m used to them is an understatement.

As such it isn’t surprising that most of my complaints with the MEP is where it deviates from the Microsoft Natural. Looking over some of my complaints they do seem petty, but I would still love Matias to make changes for the version 2.

I have wide shoulders so my arms come in when having to use a keyboard and when forced to type on a regular keyboard I end up making many typos, my wrists get sore and my typing speed is rather slow, for these reasons I hadn’t purchased a mechanical keyboard yet. I had been searching for split mechanicals with a standard layout for a long time, and ended up cancelling my Ergo Dox massdrop and preordered the MEP back in Nov after spilling red wine into my MSNK. I have had to use a standard Logitech keyboard since then and it was causing enough pain I was going to buy another MSNK to tide me over the same week the MEP arrived. Just a note I didn’t even get an email to say the keyboard was shipping soon and it came as a complete surprise.

The reason I didn’t stick with the Ergo Dox was I’m awful at building things, and would rather have a professional finish and proper wrist supports. I had also read good things about the Matias switches, but it does seem to be that while there isn’t a single switch everyone agrees is the best, people liked different switches for different reasons but “Quiet” was definitely high on my list.

Physical:

The keyboard itself is a split mechanical keyboard that uses the Matias Quiet Click switches based off ALPS white simplified that they ended up making themselves after the original manufacturer stopped making them. The Keyboard has three legs on each split side that can be set for tenting, flat or negative tilt. I personally have it tented.

The left and right sides are joined by a retractable 2.5 mm cable with 4 segments so it should be possible to get a replacement cable should that get damaged somehow. The retraction works as well as most of those do, ie you need to battle with it over a number of pulls to get it to be the length that you want. The keyboard connects to the pc via a long micro usb cable. They have also included a second shorter usb cable that is reversible! (To make it easier for laptop users) The odd thing is they have put a bend on the end that plugs into the keyboard but it seems to bend the wrong way personally, considering the keyboard is used split outwards, the cable is fed towards the centre. Great if you are plugged it into a laptop on the left hand side but beyond that a little odd.

Show Image

Show Image

The right hand side has three USB 3 ports but the left most one (visible above) juts towards the left hand side split, so unless you are going to have a fair bit of space between them you probably aren’t going to use that one very much.

Build quality is quite nice, there aren’t any sharp edges the feet don’t slide with normal use and the padded wrist supports are fantastic, so much so that my padded mouse mat feels uncomfortable by comparison. The keys are laser cut so won’t rub off, the molding is nice and the spacing is just right.

Space wise it pretty much takes up as much room as the Logitech!

It is also fully plug and plug, which is a huge plus for anyone that has battled with Razor or Logitech software in the past.

It does seem to collect cat hair though.

Ok enough of that what is it like to use?

First of all the keyboard is a joy to type with. The “quiet” clicks are audible, but not too loud. I work from home as a programmer, supporting a voip network and my wife sits behind me. If they were any louder I imagine she would have throttled me by now.

The keys feel nice, you can easily feel the point at which they activate, but I find I’m still bottoming out most of the time, I suspect that is a result of having had used dome keyboards for so long. If I press the key slowly the switch is practically silent. Most of the noise actually comes from initially pressing the key and when you bottom out. I tested what some people mentioned and it is true that if you strike the very top of the key then it feels squishy but I don’t know how you could type like that normally without hitting the keys on the row above.

I literally didn’t want to stop typing the first day, even though I was running into a rather large issue….

The num lock key.

You see the N key on the Microsoft Natural is twice as wide as other keys, and having been used to that for so many years I ended up hitting both the n and the numlock key on the MEP. I’m slowly weening myself off of that, originally I would hit it every time, but now while typing up this whole review (keeping track) I have only hit the num pad once by accident. Had I written this after using it for only a week I would have guessed that number to be between 20 and 30.

Show Image

Since I imagine many MSNK users will be looking at this keyboard I would definitely move this key, as it is my single greatest and pretty much sole annoyance. Even removing the key completely and replacing it with a function combination would be better and the led could sit at the top above the function keys. The first week I was really considering removing the cap off the key so I wouldn’t hit it.

This is compounded by the fact that the num pad light is practically invisible. The keycap is opaque and the led is below it. There isn’t a cut out clear bit, or a light near by. I’ve been told by Matias that this is because single keys with a clear bit were not available at the time, but they should have cut a small hole above it instead then.

Show Image

I do however really miss a proper keypad. Using the keypad over the other keys is rather awkward after so many years of muscle memory, and especially when programming not having / and * next to each other is a pain (block comments are surrounded by /* */).
When the number pad is on however most of the letter keys on the left hand side are disabled other than zxcv and t. T doesn’t actually type but it does put the number pad into navigation mode instead eg 8 is up, k is down etc. There isn’t any light to let you know and the key itself is not labelled.

There is a line in the manual that mentions that fnc T toggles between num lock and scrolling mode, however you don’t need to press fnc to enable this while the num lock is on. This makes it extra confusing and I was half wondering if my keyboard had broken till I played with it and worked it out. The scrolling mode persists between hitting num lock so it is extra confusing.

Yes the above is really only an issue the first couple of weeks but it is something than can be improved.

Other layout

As far as the rest of the key layout goes I was surprised that both the 6 key and F5 key are on right hand side instead of left as it is on the MSNK. It does make sense but that took a fair bit of getting used to and I still sometimes try to reach the number 6 with my left hand. The arrow keys took a little getting used to but are quite nice now. The navigation part with Home End etc I still need to look at to see which key is which and it is a little weird not having Del next to them.

The left CTRL key is comically large but it is comfortable to use both in the home position, and when your hand is over WASD which is nice. The Escape key is extra tall but can be reached without lifting your wrist.

I also never noticed how much I used to tap the edge of the keyboard to hit enter on the keypad (without lifting my hand off my mouse) before. I’ll definitely be looking to get a dedicated keypad in future.

I also missed the calculator key since I used that all the time, I ended up having to bind ctrl f12 to open calc.exe

The dedicated undo/cut/copy/paste buttons I haven’t ever used since it is quicker just to use the ctrl commands and you don't have to move your hand to do so. It would be better off having them as calc and maybe as programmable keys. Having the fnc volume overload on them would also be great so you can adjust the sound while gaming without taking your hand off the mouse.

Gaming

I didn’t realise how much I was used to bottoming out the keyboard during gaming. I was playing Diablo 3 and lifting shift slightly, but not enough to disengage on the MEP, but enough to do so on a dome. Took me a little while to come to grips with that and I suspect it may occasionally get me into trouble in the heat of battle. I did play a bit of Unreal Tournament and was still able to double tap dodge, etc and apart for Diablo I haven’t had any other issues with it across a range of games. Other slight annoyances are that it can take a while to get the keyboard split just right, and if someone moves it (eg my daughter) it will take it a while to get it just where I want it however it is nice to put the HOTAS warthog down and still be able to type around it.

Verdict:

So if I had the option between the MSNK or the MEP which would I pick? Has Microsoft rereleased it with mechanical switches? No? Then the MEP wins hands down. I tried to go back for a bit just to compare and the dome keys feel so squishy I didn’t want to type anymore. The Matias switches carry the keyboard over and beyond my favourite keyboard of all time, and they really have to be commended for not only actually creating a keyboard for people like me, but making a quality product that would not look out of place in any office.

So since I want them to make keyboards I will use here is my advice to them for a version 2:

Move the lights for num lock/scroll lock etc to the top of the keyboard like the Logitech Internet 350. Label the T keys secondary functions and make sure it only fires when used with the fnc key.

Move the num lock key if possible, maybe put it up where delete is and bring the delete key down to just above the left arrow key (between pgup and the up arrow). Yes I know that it is only a problem for people used to the MSNK but let’s be honest, who is the target market of this? Having delete there would also mean you could hit it without lifting your right wrist.

Additionally please release a keypad add on ASAP (I know you guys are working on it) (usb keypad btw is fine) but importantly, when we have num pad on that let the right hand side still let us type fully. (Not sure how you would do this, does the num lock actually send the signal to windows or is it a purely internal keyboard feature?) A dedicated programmer keypad would see me throwing money at my screen. (Brackets, colon and semi colon, ABCDEFX for hex numbers and ipv6)

Additionally add a dedicated calc button

And really… that is about it. Optionally a couple of programmable keys wouldn’t go astray but if that would require additional software instead of straight up plug an play then don't worry about it. Really the two initial points above would be enough to make what is truly a great keyboard into a phenomenal one.

TLDR If you want a mechanical replacement for the Microsoft natural keyboards, the Matias Ergo Pro is a great option, once you unlearn the bad habits associated with pressing the extra wide N key. You will want a dedicated num pad though for serious number work. Can't go back to the Microsoft Natural now.

[pepsicles]

So I have an issue. I just purchased my Ergo Pro today from an authorised reseller and I love it, everything but the numlock key. I didn't realised that the layout of the 2nd production model had changed until I stumbled across this thread, if I had known I would have definitely waited and purchased the 2nd run production as the control key would be much more useful than a numlock key for me in my line of work.

Am I still eligible for an exchange for the 2nd production model, even though I purchased from an authorised reseller?
Normally I would take it back to the reseller to resolve this but the reseller, from past experience with them, are quite strict on their refund and  exchange policy so I really rather not deal with them.

[litster]

Matias, any update on when the 2nd batch of keyboard orders will be shipped out?  Thanks.

[Matias]

So I have an issue. I just purchased my Ergo Pro today from an Australian authorised reseller and I love it, everything but the numlock key. I didn't realised that the layout of the 2nd production model had changed until I stumbled across this thread, if I had known I would have definitely waited and purchased the 2nd run production as the control key would be much more useful than a numlock key for me in my line of work.

Am I still eligible for an exchange for the 2nd production model, even though I purchased from an authorised reseller?
Normally I would take it back to the reseller to resolve this but the reseller, from past experience with them, are quite strict on their refund and  exchange policy so I really rather not deal with them.

Yes, just email help@matias.ca explain the situation, along with the reseller name.  We'll work it out with them, or have you send it to somewhere local.

[Matias]

Matias, any update on when the 2nd batch of keyboard orders will be shipped out?  Thanks.

Still on schedule for April...

[litster]

Matias, any update on when the 2nd batch of keyboard orders will be shipped out?  Thanks.

Still on schedule for April...

Sounds good.  Thanks. 

[pepsicles]

I also discovered something weird that the reddit reviewer also stumbled upon.

When numlock is engaged it only requires the "T" button to be press to switch it to scrolling mode, instead of the both the" Fn + T" keys to be pressed as specified in the manual. Was this function incorrectly implemented?

[Matias]

I also discovered something weird that the reddit reviewer also stumbled upon.

When numlock is engaged it only requires the "T" button to be press to switch it to scrolling mode, instead of the both the" Fn + T" keys to be pressed as specified in the manual. Was this function incorrectly implemented?

It is correctly implemented on the keyboard.  What you've discovered is that Windows' num lock mode sucks...

There are actually 2 num lock functions on the keyboard:

      1) the Num Lock key that turns the embedded number pad on/off.

      2) the standard Windows Num Lock key that flips the mapping of the number pad to numbers or nav keys. This is triggered by "Fn+T" on the Ergo Pro.

The Windows Num Lock (2 above) serves no purpose, other than to make life difficult for keyboard designers, and confusing for their customers.  Since the Windows Num Lock should be ON all the time -- there's no reason for it to even exist.  It's a vestigial key that should've been killed a long time ago.

[pepsicles]

      2) the standard Windows Num Lock key that flips the mapping of the number pad to numbers or nav keys. This is triggered by "Fn+T" on the Ergo Pro.

I think you might have misunderstood what I was getting at, my concern isn't that it's there or that it could be activated, rather that it's activated even if you don't hold down the Fn button and just press T.

[Matias]

      2) the standard Windows Num Lock key that flips the mapping of the number pad to numbers or nav keys. This is triggered by "Fn+T" on the Ergo Pro.

I think you might have misunderstood what I was getting at, my concern isn't that it's there or that it could be activated, rather that it's activated even if you don't hold down the Fn button and just press T.

Sorry, I just re-read your question...

Yes, that is how it works.  All the num lock mode keys are active when the embedded number pad function is on.

[pepsicles]

      2) the standard Windows Num Lock key that flips the mapping of the number pad to numbers or nav keys. This is triggered by "Fn+T" on the Ergo Pro.

I think you might have misunderstood what I was getting at, my concern isn't that it's there or that it could be activated, rather that it's activated even if you don't hold down the Fn button and just press T.

Sorry, I just re-read your question...

Yes, that is how it works.  All the num lock mode keys are active when the embedded number pad function is on.

Sorry I meant the nav key on the num lock keys are being activated with just "T" instead of "Fn + T" as specified in the manual

[smknjoe]

Can I get on an e-mail list for when they are back in stock and when you will have the blank PBT model available?

[Matias]

Sorry I meant the nav key on the num lock keys are being activated with just "T" instead of "Fn + T" as specified in the manual

Yes, that's correct.  Both ways work...

When the embedded number pad is ON, pressing T will toggle Microsoft Windows' Num Lock mode on/off.  If you're running Mac OS X, then pressing T triggers the Clear key (which is the same keycode as Windows' Num Lock key).

In addition to that, regardless of whether the embedded number pad is ON or OFF, pressing "Fn + T" will have the same effect as described above.

In addition to all that, the PC BIOS settings control the default state of Num Lock when you boot up your computer.

I really wish this weren't so complicated, but unfortunately, Microsoft has yet to fix this dumb design of theirs.

[Matias]

Can I get on an e-mail list for when they are back in stock and when you will have the blank PBT model available?

PM me and we'll add you to the list.

[bcredbottle]

.

[zxz]

Is the ISO layouts being made in the second production run? Looking forward to receiving my UK keyboard in April!

[Matias]

Is the ISO layouts being made in the second production run? Looking forward to receiving my UK keyboard in April!

Yes, they're being done together.

Mr. Matias, are there any keycaps compatible with the Ergo Pro?

Any standard ALPS keycaps will the keys between the furnction keys and the numbers.

[ADent]

Mac users - some questions.

Ctrl-Eject brings up the shutdown/sleep dialog. That would be Ctrl-Fn-E on this keyboard, right?

Media keys - hit them and they work or is it Fn-key to make them work (For example F12 or Fn-F12 to increase the volume)?

My existing QFR keyboard will do eject if I hold down the F12 key for a bit. So that would be Ctrl-F12 (or maybe Ctrl-Fn-F12) to bring up the shutdown dialog. Does that work here?

[Matias]

Mac users - some questions.

Ctrl-Eject brings up the shutdown/sleep dialog. That would be Ctrl-Fn-E on this keyboard, right?

Yes, that's correct.

Media keys - hit them and they work or is it Fn-key to make them work (For example F12 or Fn-F12 to increase the volume)?

By default, you just hit them and they work.

If you prefer to have Fn+F12 (etc) instead, you can change that in Apple menu > System Preference > Keyboard.  In this respect, it works just like a stock Apple keyboard.

Note that the above is only for the Mac version of the keyboard.  For the PC version, it's always Fn+key for media functions.

My existing QFR keyboard will do eject if I hold down the F12 key for a bit. So that would be Ctrl-F12 (or maybe Ctrl-Fn-F12) to bring up the shutdown dialog. Does that work here?

No, your QFR is using the generic USB keyboard driver on OS X.

The Ergo Pro hooks into the Apple USB keyboard driver.

[Salaryman Ryan]

Ordered a unit last March 27 and got an email from support telling me that second production run is over and they will be shipping their third batch in June. Oh well, no choice but to play the waiting game.  Still looking forward to get my hands on the keyboard.

[kshopper]

So, while I wait for my keyboard from the second production run, I was thinking it might be nice to use the Ergo Pro with a more extreme tenting angle than can be provided with the built-in legs.  If I understand it correctly, it's possible to use the keyboard with some kind of small tripods to provide ultimate positioning flexibility.

Can someone explain what these tripods are and where I might find them?

Thx.

[nobodysbusiness]

@kshopper: There are standard tripod screw mounts in the bottom of each half of the keyboard. You can get probably any tripod of any size and screw it into the bottom of the keyboard! You just have to find a tripod somewhere that does what you want.

[kshopper]

Hi,

@kshopper: There are standard tripod screw mounts in the bottom of each half of the keyboard. You can get probably any tripod of any size and screw it into the bottom of the keyboard! You just have to find a tripod somewhere that does what you want.

My question is more regarding whether anyone is using this configuration and if so, what specific tripods they used. Basically, this sounds like a compelling idea but I have no idea what type or model of tripod would work for this?

Perhaps Matias could recommend one, must have had something in mind when designing the Ergo Pro.

[spwath]

Interesting.

Like a modern apple adjustable keyboard.

Now, what switches are closest to the alps in the apple?

[bcredbottle]

Mr. Matias, I popped open one of the switches and removed the rubber damper. It sounds good. Is there anything wrong with this? Will it hurt the switch in the long run?

[bcredbottle]

Mr. Matias, I popped open one of the switches and removed the rubber damper. It sounds good. Is there anything wrong with this? Will it hurt the switch in the long run?

Actually, nevermind. I answered my own question. I just moronically broke one of the switches while taking it apart. Now I don't have a switch for the number between 8 and 10, or I guess between 8 and 0 on the board. I wish there was an emoticon for sheepishness.

[jacobolus]

Matias Quiet Click Switch - 5 Pack $5.88 shipped
Geekhack soldering thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824

[bcredbottle]

Matias Quiet Click Switch - 5 Pack $5.88 shipped
Geekhack soldering thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824

You are too kind. Thanks!

[Matias]

@kshopper: There are standard tripod screw mounts in the bottom of each half of the keyboard. You can get probably any tripod of any size and screw it into the bottom of the keyboard! You just have to find a tripod somewhere that does what you want.

My question is more regarding whether anyone is using this configuration and if so, what specific tripods they used. Basically, this sounds like a compelling idea but I have no idea what type or model of tripod would work for this?

Perhaps Matias could recommend one, must have had something in mind when designing the Ergo Pro.

We only tested with larger tripods (floor mounted) -- for example, if you're a standing desk user or doing a stage presentation (standing up).

If you're placing them on a desk, you need desktop tripods.  You want ones with a built-in ballhead, not too high, and with a wide base for stability.  Something like these (which again, we haven't tested)...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687341-REG/Oben_TT_100_TT_100_Table_Top_Tripod.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/843953-REG/Oben_TT_50_TT_50_Table_Top_Tripod.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/283757-REG/Manfrotto_709B_709_Digi_Tabletop_Tripod.html

[jacobolus]

We only tested with larger tripods (floor mounted) -- for example, if you're a standing desk user or doing a stage presentation (standing up).

If you're placing them on a desk, you need desktop tripods.  You want ones with a built-in ballhead, not too high, and with a wide base for stability.  Something like these (which again, we haven't tested)...

If you ever get a chance, it would be awesome to see some videos of someone trying this. (Or using other types of custom supports.)

[kshopper]

Matias,

Thanks for the links.

Any update on the ship date for the 2nd run?

[Skaary]

Just found this thread yesterday and had to order one. Looks awesome!

As I'm having trouble again with my RSI I was looking at getting a Rollermouse. However, I'm not quite sure if a Rollermouse is a good match for the Matias Ergo and its wrist pads. Does someone know if its no problem or maybe even uses this combination himself? Getting a Rollermouse just to test it out (350-400€ in Germany) is a bit too much for me.

Thanks.

[rsadek]

Just found this thread yesterday and had to order one. Looks awesome!

As I'm having trouble again with my RSI I was looking at getting a Rollermouse. However, I'm not quite sure if a Rollermouse is a good match for the Matias Ergo and its wrist pads. Does someone know if its no problem or maybe even uses this combination himself? Getting a Rollermouse just to test it out (350-400� in Germany) is a bit too much for me.

Thanks.

on the roller mouse website I saw a free 30 day trial program. Customers can fill out a request form to enter. I don't know if there are geographic restrictions, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

For what it's worth I am planning to use a CST trackball placed between the two halves of the ergo pro...possibly moving it to the left or right side throughout the day. This approach seems promising b/c is quite high and should match the keyboard height closely. These trackballs are much cheaper than a roller mouse as well.

[Matias]

We only tested with larger tripods (floor mounted) -- for example, if you're a standing desk user or doing a stage presentation (standing up).

If you're placing them on a desk, you need desktop tripods.  You want ones with a built-in ballhead, not too high, and with a wide base for stability.  Something like these (which again, we haven't tested)...

If you ever get a chance, it would be awesome to see some videos of someone trying this. (Or using other types of custom supports.)

It's on my to-do list, but my to-do list is pretty long so I suspect you'll see actual users post videos long before I do.

Just found this thread yesterday and had to order one. Looks awesome!

As I'm having trouble again with my RSI I was looking at getting a Rollermouse. However, I'm not quite sure if a Rollermouse is a good match for the Matias Ergo and its wrist pads. Does someone know if its no problem or maybe even uses this combination himself? Getting a Rollermouse just to test it out (350-400� in Germany) is a bit too much for me.

The Rollermouse is ackward with ergonomic keyboards, because it's a one-piece design that doesn't allow for separation or tenting.

Is your RSI mostly the result of mouse use or keyboard use?

If it's mouse related, I'd favour the Rollermouse or a trackball.  If it's keyboard related, I'd go with the Ergo Pro and perhaps a trackball.

[Matias]

Any update on the ship date for the 2nd run?

Still on schedule, and we'll be doing the EU models at the same time.

EU keycap artwork is below, along with draft Japanese.  We'll do Japanese models if Filco decides they want to distribute them...

[Skaary]

The Rollermouse is ackward with ergonomic keyboards, because it's a one-piece design that doesn't allow for separation or tenting.

Is your RSI mostly the result of mouse use or keyboard use?

If it's mouse related, I'd favour the Rollermouse or a trackball.  If it's keyboard related, I'd go with the Ergo Pro and perhaps a trackball.

It's mostly mouse related, that's why I'm looking into alternatives (again). As there are almost no good trackballs out there (didn't test a CST one yet, importing it is quite costy too) I was hoping that a Rollermouse would be the answer to my problem.

Oh well, just gotta continue testing then. Pity that it's such a pain to get most of the stuff in Germany w/o having to pay an arm and a leg. ~~

Thanks for answering.

[Matias]

The Rollermouse is ackward with ergonomic keyboards, because it's a one-piece design that doesn't allow for separation or tenting.

Is your RSI mostly the result of mouse use or keyboard use?

If it's mouse related, I'd favour the Rollermouse or a trackball.  If it's keyboard related, I'd go with the Ergo Pro and perhaps a trackball.

It's mostly mouse related, that's why I'm looking into alternatives (again). As there are almost no good trackballs out there (didn't test a CST one yet, importing it is quite costy too) I was hoping that a Rollermouse would be the answer to my problem.

Oh well, just gotta continue testing then. Pity that it's such a pain to get most of the stuff in Germany w/o having to pay an arm and a leg. ~~

Thanks for answering.

Our graphic artist likes the "Kensington Expert Mouse Trackball".  It's been around forever.  The Keyboard Company in the UK sells them and ships to Germany.  Less than half the cost of the Rollermouse, and works without interference with ergonomic keyboards...

http://www.keyboardco.com/trackball/trackball-kensington-expert-mouse.asp

Here are a few other options...

http://www.keyboardco.com/trackball/slimblade-trackball.asp

http://www.keyboardco.com/trackball/trackball-kensington-orbit-optical.asp

[zxz]

Noticed that you've changed the location of the 0 and . key for when numlock is enabled. This is compared to my current matias mini, I don't really use the numlock so I'm not really that bothered but just curious as to the reasoning of the change.

[Matias]

Noticed that you've changed the location of the 0 and . key for when numlock is enabled. This is compared to my current matias mini, I don't really use the numlock so I'm not really that bothered but just curious as to the reasoning of the change.

It's a minor thing, but it makes it a little more comfortable for people who move their hand up one row and use their thumb to press 0 and .

[bcredbottle]

I've noticed that there's a breaking-in period with this board. When I type now (after a month or two with the board) I notice that it feels much more tactile, and the sound is soooo much better than when I first bought it. I don't know how to describe it but it's much more...lush.

[Matias]

I've noticed that there's a breaking-in period with this board. When I type now (after a month or two with the board) I notice that it feels much more tactile, and the sound is soooo much better than when I first bought it. I don't know how to describe it but it's much more...lush.

Mechanical devices are like that.  Glad you're happy with it...

[sinisterTypist]

Any updates regarding second-run shipping? I'm one of those first-run converts that elected for a num-lock replacement... Also, when do you expect the alternative color wrist rests to be available?

Thanks, Matias!

[Matias]

Any updates regarding second-run shipping? I'm one of those first-run converts that elected for a num-lock replacement... Also, when do you expect the alternative color wrist rests to be available?

Thanks, Matias!

Thanks for asking...

Production is still underway.  We expect to be done next week.

The replacement palm supports are being made at the same time, but are coming by ocean freight (which takes about a month longer to arrive).  We're flying in enough keyboards to fill pre-orders -- but that's too expensive to do for the palm supports.