Hello all,
I am curious if my assumptions are correct but following GH for a while now I have seen certain overall better approvals for some keyboards more than other. Endgame meaning the keyboard that ends it all, the perfect one. I know this varies by person but speaking as an overall community which keyboard has come closest to this?As perfection will not be attainable but can come close.
In my opinion it has been the HHK and at one point it seemed like SSK Model M. I don't even prefer these keyboards but speaking overall are these the most likely ones? Remember , as a overall community approval/preference.
Hello all,
I am curious if my assumptions are correct but following GH for a while now I have seen certain overall better approvals for some keyboards more than other. Endgame meaning the keyboard that ends it all, the perfect one. I know this varies by person but speaking as an overall community which keyboard has come closest to this?As perfection will not be attainable but can come close.
In my opinion it has been the HHK and at one point it seemed like SSK Model M. I don't even prefer these keyboards but speaking overall are these the most likely ones? Remember , as a overall community approval/preference.
There is a lot of fuss around HHKB and Realforce, especially the first one. I'm looking into 60% boards myself right now but I'm considering Vortex Pok3r, but I can't find one. I would prefer it with Topre instead of MX switches though. HHKB is mighty expensive for me and I don't like the layout. Topre switches feel good and no keyboard sounds better than a silenced Topre, like a herd of horses galloping across the grasslands.
HHKB would never be end-game for me specifically because of the layout, both in terms of missing keys as well as my lack of interest in the Sun style layout. People do like them but there's really no end game consensus.
HHKB people just seem to be very vocal*. I think the endgame board for most people is probably something they've built - thus each one is a one-off.That is a very good point and maybe I have mistaken "More Vocal" for more voices haha. Yeah, maybe a lot more people have more custom boards but since they are all unique less people talk about them as a "whole" community. I still wonder if this is the closest though to a "common" endgame keyboard you know?
I don't think the HHKB would be the most popular endgame. It's 60%, which a lot of people don't like. In addition it has a layout even unique to 60% keyboards - a layout a lot more people don't like. As to the cost, it's just not that out of line. No-one gripes about the cost of a Filco, which is pretty close. A HHKB, or other Topre boards, here in the US, costs about 1.5 the cost of a good off-the-shelf MX board (Leopold, Ducky, WASD, etc.). And yes, IMO, a Topre board is worth 1.5 MX boards.
But, again, I think most endgame boards are one-off which people have built so you don't hear about them so much. Some people search a long time for just the right case and other parts to make their ultimate board.
*Disclaimer: I own two.
Hello all,
Endgame meaning the keyboard that ends it all, the perfect one.
Beamspring boards are not only pretty rare, by comparison, they are also useless without a bunch of challenging conversion work, putting them out of end-game contention for most, even among the DT crowd.
One great benefit of having Topre as an end-game switch is that brand new Topre boards are plentiful, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
Beamspring boards are not only pretty rare, by comparison, they are also useless without a bunch of challenging conversion work, putting them out of end-game contention for most, even among the DT crowd.
One great benefit of having Topre as an end-game switch is that brand new Topre boards are plentiful, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
I disagree that "end-game" keyboards need to be plentiful and readily available.
If the question is "what is the best modern retail board" then I'd agree Realforce takes the cake.
But to me a true Geekhack end-game is "what keyboard is the last one you will ever need" with no other qualifications. HHKB seems the most common to me on /r/mk, here I'd say it's close between HHKB and a custom.
Beamspring boards are not only pretty rare, by comparison, they are also useless without a bunch of challenging conversion work, putting them out of end-game contention for most, even among the DT crowd.
One great benefit of having Topre as an end-game switch is that brand new Topre boards are plentiful, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
I disagree that "end-game" keyboards need to be plentiful and readily available.
If the question is "what is the best modern retail board" then I'd agree Realforce takes the cake.
But to me a true Geekhack end-game is "what keyboard is the last one you will ever need" with no other qualifications. HHKB seems the most common to me on /r/mk, here I'd say it's close between HHKB and a custom.
I agree with you on that endgame boards don't need to be plentiful and readily available.
I would say it is a toss up between a RF and a HHKB for best modern retail board.
Endgame though seems to lean more toward customs for most people here though from what I have gathered.
I presume the appeal of vintage Model Fs and Ms is precisely that they are old. This "vintage caché" depends entirely on the belief that old gear is superior to new gear in terms of materials and/or build quality, hence it is more desireable. If you adopt this belief system, then you will almost always take an old, authentic IBM board over a new Unicomp clone, especially if you get to invest great personal effort (and ego) into restoring it.
Beamspring boards are not only pretty rare, by comparison, they are also useless without a bunch of challenging conversion work, putting them out of end-game contention for most, even among the DT crowd.
One great benefit of having Topre as an end-game switch is that brand new Topre boards are plentiful, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
I disagree that "end-game" keyboards need to be plentiful and readily available.
If the question is "what is the best modern retail board" then I'd agree Realforce takes the cake.
But to me a true Geekhack end-game is "what keyboard is the last one you will ever need" with no other qualifications. HHKB seems the most common to me on /r/mk, here I'd say it's close between HHKB and a custom.
I agree with you on that endgame boards don't need to be plentiful and readily available.
I would say it is a toss up between a RF and a HHKB for best modern retail board.
Endgame though seems to lean more toward customs for most people here though from what I have gathered.
Yeah, there's an argument to be made, I suppose, that anyone who accepts a straight-out-of-the-box board as their end-game board is just not discerning enough (yet?). But "end-game" covers a pretty wide spectrum, and for some folks there is a stock board out there that satisfies their definition, while for others nothing but a fully custom board with a one-off PCB, plate, case, layout, and keycap set will do the job.
I'm somewhere in the middle, where my end-game board is currently a stock board that I did a bit of customization work on (paint job, silencing rings, keycap swap).
Beamspring boards are not only pretty rare, by comparison, they are also useless without a bunch of challenging conversion work, putting them out of end-game contention for most, even among the DT crowd.
One great benefit of having Topre as an end-game switch is that brand new Topre boards are plentiful, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
I disagree that "end-game" keyboards need to be plentiful and readily available.
If the question is "what is the best modern retail board" then I'd agree Realforce takes the cake.
But to me a true Geekhack end-game is "what keyboard is the last one you will ever need" with no other qualifications. HHKB seems the most common to me on /r/mk, here I'd say it's close between HHKB and a custom.
I agree with you on that endgame boards don't need to be plentiful and readily available.
I would say it is a toss up between a RF and a HHKB for best modern retail board.
Endgame though seems to lean more toward customs for most people here though from what I have gathered.
Yeah, there's an argument to be made, I suppose, that anyone who accepts a straight-out-of-the-box board as their end-game board is just not discerning enough (yet?). But "end-game" covers a pretty wide spectrum, and for some folks there is a stock board out there that satisfies their definition, while for others nothing but a fully custom board with a one-off PCB, plate, case, layout, and keycap set will do the job.
I'm somewhere in the middle, where my end-game board is currently a stock board that I did a bit of customization work on (paint job, silencing rings, keycap swap).
I wouldn't say that.
Beamspring boards are not only pretty rare, by comparison, they are also useless without a bunch of challenging conversion work, putting them out of end-game contention for most, even among the DT crowd.
One great benefit of having Topre as an end-game switch is that brand new Topre boards are plentiful, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
I disagree that "end-game" keyboards need to be plentiful and readily available.
If the question is "what is the best modern retail board" then I'd agree Realforce takes the cake.
But to me a true Geekhack end-game is "what keyboard is the last one you will ever need" with no other qualifications. HHKB seems the most common to me on /r/mk, here I'd say it's close between HHKB and a custom.
I agree with you on that endgame boards don't need to be plentiful and readily available.
I would say it is a toss up between a RF and a HHKB for best modern retail board.
Endgame though seems to lean more toward customs for most people here though from what I have gathered.
Yeah, there's an argument to be made, I suppose, that anyone who accepts a straight-out-of-the-box board as their end-game board is just not discerning enough (yet?). But "end-game" covers a pretty wide spectrum, and for some folks there is a stock board out there that satisfies their definition, while for others nothing but a fully custom board with a one-off PCB, plate, case, layout, and keycap set will do the job.
I'm somewhere in the middle, where my end-game board is currently a stock board that I did a bit of customization work on (paint job, silencing rings, keycap swap).
I wouldn't say that.
You wouldn't say that "end-game" covers a wide spectrum of definitions/goals/expectations?
Right. The rest of my post was an in-place refutation of that assertion. I guess you're just agreeing/reiterating? :thumb:
Like this? https://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Lite2-Black/dp/B0000U1DJ2fyi that is the "lite" version which uses regular mediocre rubber domes. The version OP is referencing is the much more expensive HHKB which uses 45g Topre.
I would buy it only if it had a CTRL key in the right spot. Even if that's a rubber dome.
Like this? https://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Lite2-Black/dp/B0000U1DJ2
I would buy it only if it had a CTRL key in the right spot. Even if that's a rubber dome.
Like this? https://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Lite2-Black/dp/B0000U1DJ2
I would buy it only if it had a CTRL key in the right spot. Even if that's a rubber dome.
hhkn do have control in the proper spot... :thumb: SUN would agree...
Like this? https://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Lite2-Black/dp/B0000U1DJ2
I would buy it only if it had a CTRL key in the right spot. Even if that's a rubber dome.
hhkn do have control in the proper spot... :thumb: SUN would agree...
The HHKB also has \| in an atrocious spot. Sun, fortunately, eventually realized this error and corrected it. Honestly, though, I never count Ctrl in the Caps Lock spot better, just different.
I do agree that CTRL is very much at home next to A, it being that I only use CTRL with my left hand. I also don't use CAPSLOCK often, so it can be banished to the spot under right SHIFT.Like this? https://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Lite2-Black/dp/B0000U1DJ2
I would buy it only if it had a CTRL key in the right spot. Even if that's a rubber dome.
hhkn do have control in the proper spot... :thumb: SUN would agree...
c'est ;)= c(e)est.
Like this? https://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Lite2-Black/dp/B0000U1DJ2
I would buy it only if it had a CTRL key in the right spot. Even if that's a rubber dome.
hhkn do have control in the proper spot... :thumb: SUN would agree...
The HHKB also has \| in an atrocious spot. Sun, fortunately, eventually realized this error and corrected it. Honestly, though, I never count Ctrl in the Caps Lock spot better, just different.
The HHKB is the only keyboard I've sold then regretted it and bought it again.
The HHKB is the only keyboard I've sold then regretted it and bought it again.
Like this? https://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Lite2-Black/dp/B0000U1DJ2
I would buy it only if it had a CTRL key in the right spot. Even if that's a rubber dome.
hhkn do have control in the proper spot... :thumb: SUN would agree...
The HHKB also has \| in an atrocious spot. Sun, fortunately, eventually realized this error and corrected it. Honestly, though, I never count Ctrl in the Caps Lock spot better, just different.
I would consider the control to the left of A a great improvement (it used to be like this back in the old IBM XT days then it was changed). I never use caps lock but I copy and paste and use shortcuts all day long. Having it on home-row really feels natural to me.
HHKB is a really fun and practical board. It's not endgame by any means. Its lack of quality actually is what adds to its remarkably unique feel and sound. I love mine but its just a really expensive rubber dome keyboard.
HHKB's not even close to endgame..
It's barely the beginning..
HHKB's not even close to endgame..
It's barely the beginning..
You must be that guy who has extra large font printed on their keycaps.
HHKB's not even close to endgame..
It's barely the beginning..
You must be that guy who has extra large font printed on their keycaps.
Nah he's just praises ergodox.
HHKB's not even close to endgame..
It's barely the beginning..
You must be that guy who has extra large font printed on their keycaps.
Nah he's just praises ergodox.
YES to Ergodox..
No to Printed caps.. PRINTED caps are so useless..
YES to Ergodox..
No to Printed caps.. PRINTED caps are so useless..
I sure love when one post takes up half my browser window.
YES to Ergodox..
No to Printed caps.. PRINTED caps are so useless..
I sure love when one post takes up half my browser window.
(Attachment Link)
YES to Ergodox..
No to Printed caps.. PRINTED caps are so useless..
I sure love when one post takes up half my browser window.
(Attachment Link)
Very rude of you to leave your font sizes unedited and change mine to 12 point sir. You have some nerve
YES to Ergodox..
No to Printed caps.. PRINTED caps are so useless..
I sure love when one post takes up half my browser window.
(Attachment Link)
Very rude of you to leave your font sizes unedited and change mine to 12 point sir. You have some nerve
Can you hear me now ?
B
Hello all,
Endgame meaning the keyboard that ends it all, the perfect one.
I would think this would be YOUR endgame. It's not mine or anyone else to decide for you. Of course I know what I like.
Endgame on GH seems pretty inextricably tied to Topre.
On DT, it seems most often beamspring.
Hello all,
Endgame meaning the keyboard that ends it all, the perfect one.
I would think this would be YOUR endgame. It's not mine or anyone else to decide for you. Of course I know what I like.
You missed the point of the entire post. It is not my endgame btw but I was saying as a community , overall. Like which keyboard stands out the most as being the most satisfying keyboard for community at GH.
Hello all,
Endgame meaning the keyboard that ends it all, the perfect one.
I would think this would be YOUR endgame. It's not mine or anyone else to decide for you. Of course I know what I like.
You missed the point of the entire post. It is not my endgame btw but I was saying as a community , overall. Like which keyboard stands out the most as being the most satisfying keyboard for community at GH.
Am I wrong? The point of your post isn't what others think, it should be what you think. That's what I think. Carry on.
Maybe there should be a poll titled, "What has been your end-game (or nearly so) board?" with two options: "HHKB" and "Something else," and see what the numbers say. How things seem to be may or may not be supported by the actual figures. We can't know for sure until we take a measure of the GH community (at least those who will answer and answer honestly).
Maybe there should be a poll titled, "What has been your end-game (or nearly so) board?" with two options: "HHKB" and "Something else," and see what the numbers say. How things seem to be may or may not be supported by the actual figures. We can't know for sure until we take a measure of the GH community (at least those who will answer and answer honestly).
That will be interesting but to me it would be a list of many keyboard with the HHKB and whichever one wins is the the answer to my question. I am not defending the HHKB or any other board. I am just curious you know like , what is the bar, what made this keyboard love by so many etc. A poll will be very interesting.
Well, the point would be to determine what percentage of end-game boards the HHKB represents. Just to confirm, or put to rest, the theory that it is the majority end-game board around here. The specific breakdown of "non-HHKB" isn't important in that case.Exactly my point, thank you. Although , for now I guess it is just mere speculation on my part.
Well, the point would be to determine what percentage of end-game boards the HHKB represents. Just to confirm, or put to rest, the theory that it is the majority end-game board around here. The specific breakdown of "non-HHKB" isn't important in that case.Exactly my point, thank you. Although , for now I guess it is just mere speculation on my part.
@happylacquer
Yeah it is just curious to see like maybe other makers can look at what made this keyboard so special to so many etc.
so i plugged in my HHKB todayShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/qoPCK1E.jpg)
If I had a HHKB, it'd be my endgame... I'd get so frustrated having to use so many key combinations to do anything, it wouldn't be long till I'd thrown it out the window and vowed never to type again.
I understand HHKBs about as much as I understand deejays being considered entertainers. Except deejays don't make you do a whole bunch of extra work just so you can have something small and cute on your desk.
Even if everyone who responded to this thread thought the HHKB were the be-all-end-all, it wouldn't prove that the community as a whole agrees.
It depends on how exactly you're asking the question. If you're asking if the HHKB is the most prevalent endgame, I'd say there's a real possibility. But this is only due to the fact that within the realm of Topre, you have far fewer options. With MX, Alps, and other various vintage switches, there are enough options that it's a small plurality what the most sought-after endgame is.
My definition of end-game probably differs from that of some others. My definition is that it is the culmination of all my keyboard desires as they exist right now. I don't worry about what might or might not come along, or change my mind, in the future. The future isn't here yet, so it has no say in what "end-game" means to me; only right now matters.
And on that basis, I am happy to report that I've been typing on my end-game board for about a month now.
If I had a HHKB, it'd be my endgame... I'd get so frustrated having to use so many key combinations to do anything, it wouldn't be long till I'd thrown it out the window and vowed never to type again.
I understand HHKBs about as much as I understand deejays being considered entertainers. Except deejays don't make you do a whole bunch of extra work just so you can have something small and cute on your desk.
Even if everyone who responded to this thread thought the HHKB were the be-all-end-all, it wouldn't prove that the community as a whole agrees.
Not as a whole of course, but the most prevalent I supposed will be a better word in the community which is what I was going for. Don't get me wrong, I myself much prefer the layout of realforce too but just more talk of HHKB around here which is what I was also pointing out.
so i plugged in my HHKB todayShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/qoPCK1E.jpg)
You know why it's shown as a toaster, right?
My definition of end-game probably differs from that of some others. My definition is that it is the culmination of all my keyboard desires as they exist right now.
Even if everyone who responded to this thread thought the HHKB were the be-all-end-all, it wouldn't prove that the community as a whole agrees.
Not as a whole of course, but the most prevalent I supposed will be a better word in the community which is what I was going for. Don't get me wrong, I myself much prefer the layout of realforce too but just more talk of HHKB around here which is what I was also pointing out.
I'm not sure how you'd gauge whether it is or isn't based solely on the responses in this thread, though. That's all I'm saying.
I tried many MX style keyboards and have tested a lot of MX style switches with all of them failing to satisfy me. Topre, right out of the gate just felt superior and the "thock" sound is what I am addicted too. Even though I am not a huge fan of stock Topre, putting Hyperspheres and Lubing it really made a drastic difference and gave me the exact feel and sound that I wanted from my Keyboard. Then the HHKB layout and size fits my needs perfectly. I personally hate large keyboards and wanted something small form factor, and the different layout that HHKB uses is the exact change that I was looking for. It feels natural to me and it doesn't have useless keys that I have no use for. It just fits the bill for me, and thats why its my end game, but in no way would I call it the best keyboard.
I use this as proof that extraterrestrials walk among us, because people who use tiny little toy keyboards (like the HHKB) as their main drivers are an alien species AFAIC. :p
I use this as proof that extraterrestrials walk among us, because people who use tiny little toy keyboards (like the HHKB) as their main drivers are an alien species AFAIC. :p
I tend to wonder what these people do for a living that don't at least need a 60% board. I could get by on a 60% but love my F and arrow keys enough that I don't really want to sacrifice. I'm just thinking of the ergonomic strain of having to 2-key or 3-key combo it just to input numbers or other symbols not on the primary layer of those small boards.
I use this as proof that extraterrestrials walk among us, because people who use tiny little toy keyboards (like the HHKB) as their main drivers are an alien species AFAIC. :p
I tend to wonder what these people do for a living that don't at least need a 60% board. I could get by on a 60% but love my F and arrow keys enough that I don't really want to sacrifice. I'm just thinking of the ergonomic strain of having to 2-key or 3-key combo it just to input numbers or other symbols not on the primary layer of those small boards.
Alien senior full-stack web developer.
I use this as proof that extraterrestrials walk among us, because people who use tiny little toy keyboards (like the HHKB) as their main drivers are an alien species AFAIC. :p
I tend to wonder what these people do for a living that don't at least need a 60% board. I could get by on a 60% but love my F and arrow keys enough that I don't really want to sacrifice. I'm just thinking of the ergonomic strain of having to 2-key or 3-key combo it just to input numbers or other symbols not on the primary layer of those small boards.
Senior full-stack web developer.
If the definition of "favorite board" is having bought more than one, then I guess my favorite boards are/have been:
- Filco Majestouch-2 (x6)
- Vortex Pok3r (x4)
- Varmilo VA108M (x2)
- RealForce RGB (x2)
An example of HHKB 'End-game':
Type-S|55g|HiPro|Hasu BTShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/CPmJBxT.jpg)
It needed to source from 2 different sets of HiPro Topre caps to complete this board.
And when I had the chance to play with it, a well sought after Artisan cap was on it too:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/0CXymnM.jpg)
I think in total, the owner, a professional UNIX expert, should have spent > $1000 to build it up slowly to this stage.Morehttps://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5llc3b/photos_still_my_endgame_types55ghiprohasu_bt/
HHKB is entry level
I use this as proof that extraterrestrials walk among us, because people who use tiny little toy keyboards (like the HHKB) as their main drivers are an alien species AFAIC. :p
I tend to wonder what these people do for a living that don't at least need a 60% board. I could get by on a 60% but love my F and arrow keys enough that I don't really want to sacrifice. I'm just thinking of the ergonomic strain of having to 2-key or 3-key combo it just to input numbers or other symbols not on the primary layer of those small boards.
Brackets and parenthesis are in the same location as any other keyboard. The only thing that's different for the right hand is the ` and | keys being swapped with backspace, which makes infinitely more sense to me.I use this as proof that extraterrestrials walk among us, because people who use tiny little toy keyboards (like the HHKB) as their main drivers are an alien species AFAIC. :p
I tend to wonder what these people do for a living that don't at least need a 60% board. I could get by on a 60% but love my F and arrow keys enough that I don't really want to sacrifice. I'm just thinking of the ergonomic strain of having to 2-key or 3-key combo it just to input numbers or other symbols not on the primary layer of those small boards.
Senior full-stack web developer.
Interesting. Where do you have things like brackets and parenthesis set or are you simply using languages that don't make much use of such things? As a UNIX/Linux admin that deals with Ruby and Puppet, I would be continually frustrated having most of those right-hand non-alpha characters off on another layer. At a 60% board size, I at least continue to get all the necessities even if the F keys are on another layer. Dropping smaller than that begins to may a lot more layout changes and requires important-to-me keys on layers.
HHKB is entry level
Brackets and parenthesis are in the same location as any other keyboard. The only thing that's different for the right hand is the ` and | keys being swapped with backspace, which makes infinitely more sense to me.I use this as proof that extraterrestrials walk among us, because people who use tiny little toy keyboards (like the HHKB) as their main drivers are an alien species AFAIC. :p
I tend to wonder what these people do for a living that don't at least need a 60% board. I could get by on a 60% but love my F and arrow keys enough that I don't really want to sacrifice. I'm just thinking of the ergonomic strain of having to 2-key or 3-key combo it just to input numbers or other symbols not on the primary layer of those small boards.
Senior full-stack web developer.
Interesting. Where do you have things like brackets and parenthesis set or are you simply using languages that don't make much use of such things? As a UNIX/Linux admin that deals with Ruby and Puppet, I would be continually frustrated having most of those right-hand non-alpha characters off on another layer. At a 60% board size, I at least continue to get all the necessities even if the F keys are on another layer. Dropping smaller than that begins to may a lot more layout changes and requires important-to-me keys on layers.
The HHKB is what people finally admit regretting buying after 2 years of oppressed buyer's remorse of paying platinum for a tiny piece of rubber and plastic :p .Haha there is some truth to this. Still, saying the HHKB is "endgame" on Geekhack is pretty crazy. There's so much out there to try and like its impossible to just pick one.
Further proof that a chunk of the HHKB haters have never used the board or are just hating to jump on the hate train. :-*
Brackets and parenthesis are in the same location as any other keyboard. The only thing that's different for the right hand is the ` and | keys being swapped with backspace, which makes infinitely more sense to me.I use this as proof that extraterrestrials walk among us, because people who use tiny little toy keyboards (like the HHKB) as their main drivers are an alien species AFAIC. :p
I tend to wonder what these people do for a living that don't at least need a 60% board. I could get by on a 60% but love my F and arrow keys enough that I don't really want to sacrifice. I'm just thinking of the ergonomic strain of having to 2-key or 3-key combo it just to input numbers or other symbols not on the primary layer of those small boards.
Senior full-stack web developer.
Interesting. Where do you have things like brackets and parenthesis set or are you simply using languages that don't make much use of such things? As a UNIX/Linux admin that deals with Ruby and Puppet, I would be continually frustrated having most of those right-hand non-alpha characters off on another layer. At a 60% board size, I at least continue to get all the necessities even if the F keys are on another layer. Dropping smaller than that begins to may a lot more layout changes and requires important-to-me keys on layers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't have one. I use a HHKB and a WhiteFox that is mapped with the HHKB's function layer.Brackets and parenthesis are in the same location as any other keyboard. The only thing that's different for the right hand is the ` and | keys being swapped with backspace, which makes infinitely more sense to me.I use this as proof that extraterrestrials walk among us, because people who use tiny little toy keyboards (like the HHKB) as their main drivers are an alien species AFAIC. :p
I tend to wonder what these people do for a living that don't at least need a 60% board. I could get by on a 60% but love my F and arrow keys enough that I don't really want to sacrifice. I'm just thinking of the ergonomic strain of having to 2-key or 3-key combo it just to input numbers or other symbols not on the primary layer of those small boards.
Senior full-stack web developer.
Interesting. Where do you have things like brackets and parenthesis set or are you simply using languages that don't make much use of such things? As a UNIX/Linux admin that deals with Ruby and Puppet, I would be continually frustrated having most of those right-hand non-alpha characters off on another layer. At a 60% board size, I at least continue to get all the necessities even if the F keys are on another layer. Dropping smaller than that begins to may a lot more layout changes and requires important-to-me keys on layers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
See, the \| being moved further out of reach as a UNIX admin makes me twitch nervously. I use it far more than I use a backspace, to be honest. As to the others, I'm guessing you're using a larger keyboard then as most of the 40% type boards I see drop some of the brackets or such in order to condense the board further. That brings me back to my question; what's the layout of your sub-60% board, then?
Yeah I am not buying that a single HHKB user hasn't remapped or wanted to remap the ` and | keys. Those are in just such stupid positions.
If you don't miss arrow keys, the ins/home/del/end/pg cluster, and the numpad, then sure a 60% or hhkb is probably fine for you to do whatever. hhkb has the advantage of your hands never moving, but at that point, idk why you don't just use an advantage.
Further proof that a chunk of the HHKB haters have never used the board or are just hating to jump on the hate train. :-*
Until I can get a full set of spherical keycaps on it, I never will use the board, and will forever ride the hate train on that basis alone. :cool:
I don't have one. I use a HHKB and a WhiteFox that is mapped with the HHKB's function layer.Brackets and parenthesis are in the same location as any other keyboard. The only thing that's different for the right hand is the ` and | keys being swapped with backspace, which makes infinitely more sense to me.I use this as proof that extraterrestrials walk among us, because people who use tiny little toy keyboards (like the HHKB) as their main drivers are an alien species AFAIC. :p
I tend to wonder what these people do for a living that don't at least need a 60% board. I could get by on a 60% but love my F and arrow keys enough that I don't really want to sacrifice. I'm just thinking of the ergonomic strain of having to 2-key or 3-key combo it just to input numbers or other symbols not on the primary layer of those small boards.
Senior full-stack web developer.
Interesting. Where do you have things like brackets and parenthesis set or are you simply using languages that don't make much use of such things? As a UNIX/Linux admin that deals with Ruby and Puppet, I would be continually frustrated having most of those right-hand non-alpha characters off on another layer. At a 60% board size, I at least continue to get all the necessities even if the F keys are on another layer. Dropping smaller than that begins to may a lot more layout changes and requires important-to-me keys on layers.
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See, the \| being moved further out of reach as a UNIX admin makes me twitch nervously. I use it far more than I use a backspace, to be honest. As to the others, I'm guessing you're using a larger keyboard then as most of the 40% type boards I see drop some of the brackets or such in order to condense the board further. That brings me back to my question; what's the layout of your sub-60% board, then?
I misread your post and thought you were talking about HHKB's layout instead of 40%.
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Further proof that a chunk of the HHKB haters have never used the board or are just hating to jump on the hate train. :-*
Until I can get a full set of spherical keycaps on it, I never will use the board, and will forever ride the hate train on that basis alone. :cool:
But this doesn't look so bad
https://imgur.com/a/kPMDT#lTryd0L
And this is pure awesome
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4u2hnb/my_carbon_sa_hhkb/
Further proof that a chunk of the HHKB haters have never used the board or are just hating to jump on the hate train. :-*
Until I can get a full set of spherical keycaps on it, I never will use the board, and will forever ride the hate train on that basis alone. :cool:
But this doesn't look so bad
https://imgur.com/a/kPMDT#lTryd0L
And this is pure awesome
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4u2hnb/my_carbon_sa_hhkb/
...
And where can I buy a Hi-Pro keycap set that will fit the HHKB like that? And how many colors does it come in? (Answers: nowhere, and one)
I think the notion of being able to pick and choose between various custom spherical keycap sets for the HHKB is getting lost in translation here somehow.
Can of worms: opened.
I don't like topre. I have typed on HHKBs and Realforces a number of times and I just can't get along with it. Maybe it's because I love tactile switches and I don't reel that topre is very tactile. Maybe it's because I was only typing on 45g and I prefer heavier switches.
For me, I have not yet discovered endgame. I have some things in the works which will hopefully end my quest, but until I get those sorted I cannot be sure. The HHKB is not one of those things however and I don't think I will ever buy one or a topre board at all.
On another note, I can't get along with the layout. I struggled with a normal 60% board, so I really don't think I could do any better with a HHKB layout.
Yes.
... I love tactile switches and I don't reel that topre is very tactile...
Maybe you need to try a Unicomp or M with clean new caps out and see how you like buckling springs? :thumb:
There is no 'End-game' as long as a person is still posting / reading / lurking on any keyboard related forum.
But when asked what is 'ideal', HHKB is for sure far from ideal because most people's ideal is quite difficult to reach to begin with.
Yes.
Yes
katushkin makes a good observation: not all methods of delivering tactility feel the same. It all comes down to what kind of tactile response you like. I like the feel and sound of Topre a lot. I hate the feel and sound of buckling spring a lot. Tactile click leaves are somewhere in between for me, I guess. At the end of the day, I don't want my switches to click, or even have the sensation of a click. I'd much rather they have a soft pop instead.
For folks who like tactile switches but don't like Topre, I am curious where their expectations for what a tactile switch "should" feel like comes from.
For folks who like tactile switches but don't like Topre, I am curious where their expectations for what a tactile switch "should" feel like comes from.
Right, but where did you obtain the notion that IBM-style keyboards represent "proper" tactility?
HHKB users confess their love for it LOUDLY and often.
I'm not a Topre fan and I find 60% layouts entirely unusable, so obviously there's nothing remotely end-game about the HHKB for me. To each his own I guess.
Yes.
Yes
Yes
If I had a HHKB, it'd be my endgame... I'd get so frustrated having to use so many key combinations to do anything, it wouldn't be long till I'd thrown it out the window and vowed never to type again.That is what eventually drove me away from the HHKB. I was simply so much more productive on my RF 87U. I also like the heavier 55g switches on the metal plate of the RF.
I understand HHKBs about as much as I understand deejays being considered entertainers. Except deejays don't make you do a whole bunch of extra work just so you can have something small and cute on your desk.
Yes!Yes.
Yes
Yes
Right, but where did you obtain the notion that IBM-style keyboards represent "proper" tactility?No notions or representations here. I come from the world of telemetry, and a signal that has a sharper amplitude differential is easier to read.
While HHKBs are great I wouldn't consider them endgame.
Best stock board ever is a 55g AE 87u, looks amazing and requires no modding to feel great.Show Image(https://dangwang.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/img_0754_1.jpg)
HHKB is entry level
While HHKBs are great I wouldn't consider them endgame.
Best stock board ever is a 55g AE 87u, looks amazing and requires no modding to feel great.Show Image(https://dangwang.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/img_0754_1.jpg)
Let's be honest; if you think you'll ever get a true "endgame" keyboard, you're doing it wrong, and if you decide it's the HHKB, you REALLY haven't been around enough :p .
Let's be honest; if you think you'll ever get a true "endgame" keyboard, you're doing it wrong, and if you decide it's the HHKB, you REALLY haven't been around enough :p .
Maybe deciding the HHKB is endgame is the ultimate form of enlightenment because after the 1 board you no longer feel the need to spend a ton on customs and the endless cycle of modding switches.
This makes me sad because I realize I have a ton of money out on custom MX boards when deep down I know I will still enjoy my hhkb more... haha
Leopold FC660C is the true endgame.