A desktop keyboard that's like my laptop's?

[excelsium]

Just to say the Cherry G84-4100 so far seems to be a total fail for me, the keys (cherry ml 3mm) have too much travel and require too much effort (same weight as cherry blues apparently), the right shift key seems awkward and there's no windows key.. *roll eyes*.

[wellington1869]

Just to say the Cherry G84-4100 so far seems to be a total fail for me, the keys (cherry ml 3mm) have too much travel and require too much effort (same weight as cherry blues apparently), the right shift key seems awkward and there's no windows key.. *roll eyes*.

good to know, i was wondering what ML's were like. I'll scratch those off my list

[wellington1869]

I just bought an MS laser desktop 7000. Couldnt get myself to pay retail ($70-$100 for a scissor board?!), bought a used one for a more reasonable $30. Should have it in a week. It was impressive (for a scissor/dome board) in the store. Heavy, nice looks, decent feedback on the keys and medium-to-short throw. It'll be my first "curved" board (6 degree angle on the keys).

[excelsium]

I'm currently using a "Keysonic ACK-540 RF Wireless Keyboard" (scissors) at my desk.. cheap by UK standards, and it's almost as nice as the one in my laptop.... low tension and low travel.
I can relax really well and very delicately pick at the keys, at 75wpm, that's what I look for in a keyboard, not a tough manly bash bash whack whack type experience:3.. I get tired really easily from that.

[DreymaR]

I have used a niceish BenQ A800 (I think its successor is called the X800 for its 'X' shaped scissors) board.

[excelsium]

Been testing the Logitech Ultra X.. the keys are of the type I'm looking for and are extremely similar to what's on the mentioned keysonic board. The board and keys are on a sight angle, I suppose perfectly flat is best. Board itself is heavy enough to not move at all when used.

[wellington1869]

I'll say this for dome/scissor makers, they've been improving steadily, innovating a lot, which is more than one can say for the mechanical switch makers. The domes/scissors of today are much better than the ones from 90s. Both in reliability and in feel. While continuing to keep costs low.

Not saying they're as good, just observing that there is steady innovation there of the type that I wish we would also see among mechanical switch makers, if they want to keep up with the times or broaden their markets. They dont have to dump classic designs but they could add new ones. Laptop mechanicals, quieter mechanicals, lower cost production techniques or new designs, etc.

[excelsium]

Just scored 87wpm with my first test on the logitech ultra x...definitely keeping this as my main board for some time to come . Yea.. I can't imagine why I would want to get a mechanical keyboard. it would have to match the very low travel and activation forces of good scissor boards. I wonder what the action force for these boards are, perhaps lower than the cherry browns (40)?

[excelsium]

Stick some nickels on it.  My bet is about 70g.  That's been my experience.   It feels lighter because of the low travel.

So one cannot look only at the activation force with regards to lightness? these keys feel much lighter and more pleasant than the (45) keys on my G84-8100

[Mental Hobbit]

I can't imagine why I would want to get a mechanical keyboard. it would have to match the very low travel and activation forces of good scissor boards. I wonder what the action force for these boards are, perhaps lower than the cherry browns (40)?

Just measured my UtraX: 80g. I was surprised myself. I used them several years (new one every year, they're short-lived) and I think they're among the least annoying keyboards one can get in an average electronics market. Can't compete with my beloved Cherry blues though.

[excelsium]

Just measured my UtraX: 80g. I was surprised myself. I used them several years (new one every year, they're short-lived) and I think they're among the least annoying keyboards one can get in an average electronics market. Can't compete with my beloved Cherry blues though.

But do the cherry b's feel heavier to you? Even if the keys are "technically better" (longer lasting, more accurate etc) if it requires more effort from my physical body parts.. then I don't need it..

I could feel the extra physical strain of typing on Cherry ML's after just a few minutes.. they have the same weight feel as the cherry b's supposedly.

[Mental Hobbit]

Cherry blues are 50g, a lot lighter. I find typing on them perfectly effortless. 80g is extremely heavy.

[excelsium]

Cherry blues are 50g, a lot lighter. I find typing on them perfectly effortless. 80g is extremely heavy.

Doesn't add up with my experience I guess we'll have to disagree .

[wellington1869]

So one cannot look only at the activation force with regards to lightness? these keys feel much lighter and more pleasant than the (45) keys on my G84-8100

i think this is correct.  seems to me there are other factors that go into how light/heavy a key "feels", including length of key travel, softness/hardness of the bottom, etc.

I bottom out with authority, but I dont feel like I make any additional effort for that to happen, my fingers merely 'fall', i dont feel like i'm exerting any extra effort when i bottom. On the contrary, if I try not to bottom I feel like I have to put in a lot of muscular effort on my fingers (to keep them from bottoming).

but thats just the way I've always typed, I suspect people have different styles of typing.

[Rajagra]

I could feel the extra physical strain of typing on Cherry ML's after just a few minutes.. they have the same weight feel as the cherry b's supposedly.

No. ML switches feel nothing like MX switches. You can't even use them as a good reference point for describing the difference.

Between different types of MX switches (blues, browns, blacks) you can make meaningful comparisons. They are fundamentally the same but each is tweaked to have its own character.

But ML switches are completely different. They are a compromise designed to give reasonably long travel from a low-profile switch. It's a fairly neat trick for people who want that, but they can't compete with the smoothness of MXes.