Author Topic: [GB] KAT Refined  (Read 50066 times)

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Offline Jefff

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #100 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 21:05:36 »
Is this dye-sub or doubleshot?

Offline kidpid

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #101 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 23:38:25 »
Is this dye-sub or doubleshot?
Dyesub

Offline VXQN

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #102 on: Mon, 18 January 2021, 07:44:37 »
Quick check-in: wondering if order has been submitted (and paid) to Keycreative yet?

Any updates? I appreciate that actual true updates will always be few and far between but I really appreciate when a GB runner keeps a thread somewhat active when the GB is over instead of months of silence.

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #103 on: Fri, 22 January 2021, 10:45:49 »
Quick check-in: wondering if order has been submitted (and paid) to Keycreative yet?

Any updates? I appreciate that actual true updates will always be few and far between but I really appreciate when a GB runner keeps a thread somewhat active when the GB is over instead of months of silence.

I'll post more updates, but it's very early yet. We're months away from starting production so there is nothing to say at the moment.

I will check if we can already get a ballpark on delivery date and will also order a full set as prototype for myself so we can see it in its full glory.

More to come!

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #104 on: Tue, 09 February 2021, 01:39:12 »
Hey everybody!

Here's an update from me. Nothing has happened since last. Still waiting to hear back from Keyreative on dates and more samples.

Offline Mr Chrome

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #105 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 03:26:12 »
Hey everybody!

Here's an update from me. Nothing has happened since last. Still waiting to hear back from Keyreative on dates and more samples.

Thanks for the updates! I took the plunge on both the BoW and WoB kits planning to mix and match... I hope that works out well with the new legends? The BoW looks a bit thin to me, but that might just be an illusion with the spacing. It might also be because I like how the thicker legends emphasize the superb font, especially on the alphas and mod text. There's something about those hard edges I just love.

Still, looking forward to seeing more samples!

Offline zuggykeys

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #106 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 12:16:50 »
Thanks for keeping us updated.  Hopefully Keyreative breaks the log jam soon. 

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #107 on: Mon, 01 March 2021, 08:54:56 »
Sorry to say, but still no update to give you. I sent another mail last week as a reminder but also that one remains unanswered.


Offline MrT1ddl3s

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #108 on: Mon, 01 March 2021, 16:23:30 »
ooh super clean

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #109 on: Tue, 02 March 2021, 13:39:50 »
Just received news regarding a new ETA (which was expected).

Not too bad, but we'll have to see if it holds: Aug or Sept 2021

Offline Shoe17

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #110 on: Tue, 02 March 2021, 14:40:22 »
Glad to hear! Hopefully, it doesn't spill over into the 12 month mark, but I'm excited to see how their tooling turns out.

Offline mihalski

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #111 on: Tue, 23 March 2021, 16:36:46 »
Unfortunately ortho kits all sold out in Oceania :/
Would have bought one n BoW and one in WoB.

Getting keycaps you like is about as easy as finding a soulmate..
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 March 2021, 16:41:54 by mihalski »

Offline Mr Chrome

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #112 on: Thu, 25 March 2021, 12:26:22 »
I know it's much too early for this yet (or late :/), but do you have any plans for a R2? KAT sets are great for multi-language support, and I was thinking Cyrillic alphas fit just right with a grotesque font. I know I would absolutely kill for something like this:


Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #113 on: Sat, 03 April 2021, 10:46:33 »
I know it's much too early for this yet (or late :/), but do you have any plans for a R2? KAT sets are great for multi-language support, and I was thinking Cyrillic alphas fit just right with a grotesque font. I know I would absolutely kill for something like this:

Show Image


Maybe, we'll see how R1 goes. A few months left :)

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #114 on: Sat, 03 April 2021, 10:48:06 »
Nothing to report on for those who wonder about the status. Hopefully we'll have it in our hands sometime after summer.

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #115 on: Fri, 16 April 2021, 02:25:33 »
Still nothing...  :-X

Offline nbesa

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #116 on: Sat, 17 April 2021, 20:46:41 »
Keyreative is so disappointing... Thank you MacSurfy for the updates, we are pretty sure you are trying your best and the manufacturer is dropping the ball, as is tradition at this point with KAT sets
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 June 2021, 01:00:04 by nbesa »

Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #117 on: Sun, 18 April 2021, 09:41:23 »
I hope this one makes an R2.. or someone with nordeuk set doesnt want their bow  :)
« Last Edit: Sun, 18 April 2021, 10:10:28 by BarfightSpectator »

Offline Pejano

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #118 on: Wed, 21 April 2021, 20:52:38 »
I hope this one makes an R2.. or someone with nordeuk set doesnt want their bow  :)
I bought Nordeuk but only need the UK keys. Is this any help to you?

Offline genevatypes

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #119 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 01:20:01 »
prayn for that R2... maybe a WoB set delicious

Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #120 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 15:44:38 »
I hope this one makes an R2.. or someone with nordeuk set doesnt want their bow  :)
I bought Nordeuk but only need the UK keys. Is this any help to you?

Oh yeah, that would help a bunch! I could try to peacemeal myself a full board  :)

Offline thelaughingman

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #121 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 21:09:24 »
I hope this one makes an R2.. or someone with nordeuk set doesnt want their bow  :)

prayn for that R2... maybe a WoB set delicious

I'm praying for R1 to complete LOL

Offline hiddensong

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #122 on: Fri, 30 April 2021, 02:17:37 »
Well I was worried this was going to arrive before the Hex 6.C. No chance of that now. Good ole keycap manus just keeping up expectations. smh

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #123 on: Sat, 15 May 2021, 02:04:14 »
Still no news.

I haven't heard from them since late Feb even though I've tried to contact them several times. Aug/Sept is looking pretty unrealistic by now. An R2 even more so, I honestly can't be bothered working with people who have no idea of how to run a business. This is on a whole new level of stupid.

Offline genevatypes

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #124 on: Sat, 15 May 2021, 07:46:21 »
How many extras will there be available? Remember another user saying 50% but wanted to know if it's still around that ballpark

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #125 on: Sat, 15 May 2021, 09:16:40 »
Depends on the store and the market they are in. Some ordered a lot more than others but you should be OK in most cases.

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #126 on: Fri, 28 May 2021, 13:24:10 »
Still nothing to report on.. sorry

Offline damsenviet

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #127 on: Fri, 28 May 2021, 15:26:42 »
KAT explosion GB ran before refined did and is estimated for Q3 (based on CK's estimates) at the moment. I think we can expect KAT refined to arrive late Q4 or early 2022 hopefully?
« Last Edit: Fri, 28 May 2021, 15:36:43 by damsenviet »

Offline SleepyJacky

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #128 on: Sat, 29 May 2021, 21:59:15 »
Still nothing to report on.. sorry

Appreciate you checking in regardless :thumb:

Offline Jo_hannes

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #129 on: Mon, 31 May 2021, 01:31:48 »
KAT explosion GB ran before refined did and is estimated for Q3 (based on CK's estimates) at the moment. I think we can expect KAT refined to arrive late Q4 or early 2022 hopefully?

MacSurfy has made clear that Keyreative is not getting back to him atm, and has not for many months, so your guess is as good as any. /Johannes

Offline Armaguard

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #130 on: Sat, 05 June 2021, 20:37:36 »
Thanks for the updates! Hoping they get back to you soon as that’s pretty poor form… fingers crossed this isn’t an indication of the keyset quality!

Offline IBMweMissU

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #131 on: Sun, 06 June 2021, 00:42:10 »
Going by the KAT Arctic pics that we are starting to see, this set needs to be double shot, or cancelled.
Rev dye sub is just not there, at least for KAT.

Offline Mr Chrome

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #132 on: Mon, 07 June 2021, 05:18:13 »
Going by the KAT Arctic pics that we are starting to see, this set needs to be double shot, or cancelled.
Rev dye sub is just not there, at least for KAT.

Was Arctic really that bad? The only part I saw that wasn’t the greatest was the occasional misalignment. And the samples for WoB Refined looked good. I doubt they’d do doubleshot for this set anyway since it uses nonstandard legends, and the sharp edges of the font don’t really translate well either.

Offline KawabataLuis

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #133 on: Tue, 08 June 2021, 13:17:17 »
Going by the KAT Arctic pics that we are starting to see, this set needs to be double shot, or cancelled.
Rev dye sub is just not there, at least for KAT.

Was Arctic really that bad? The only part I saw that wasn’t the greatest was the occasional misalignment. And the samples for WoB Refined looked good. I doubt they’d do doubleshot for this set anyway since it uses nonstandard legends, and the sharp edges of the font don’t really translate well either.

Hey! So, It just came to my attention that sets with normal dye subbing can have quite some problems. I don't care that much for misalignment, if it's not too bad. But my main concern is what have been happening regarding bleeding of the font after some months, I think, of use. The pic is not mine, but here is a reference:



This is from Milkshake and I think was posted on the biip discord. A user, on the Hyperfuse discord did also confirm that the bleed happened with his KAT Alpha set. I really think that this will be the case for the BoW part of KAT Refined. I'm trying to convince myself that this is not a dealbreaker, but tbh, for me, the bleed is alot worse than yellowing or shine, from gmk, for an example. This worries me quite a bit.

Offline Mr Chrome

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #134 on: Tue, 08 June 2021, 15:02:06 »
Hey! So, It just came to my attention that sets with normal dye subbing can have quite some problems. I don't care that much for misalignment, if it's not too bad. But my main concern is what have been happening regarding bleeding of the font after some months, I think, of use. The pic is not mine, but here is a reference:

(Attachment Link)

This is from Milkshake and I think was posted on the biip discord. A user, on the Hyperfuse discord did also confirm that the bleed happened with his KAT Alpha set. I really think that this will be the case for the BoW part of KAT Refined. I'm trying to convince myself that this is not a dealbreaker, but tbh, for me, the bleed is alot worse than yellowing or shine, from gmk, for an example. This worries me quite a bit.

Oh, no. That is a complete dealbreaker for me. Waiting a year or more for a set that doesn’t even last that long and goes for a premium price is 100% unacceptable. I never thought I’d have to join the “doubleshot or no” group but hell, misalignment and color matching is pretty minor compared to this which actually ruins legibility.

Thank you so much for letting us know about this! I was aware that dyesub could have bleed problems in production, but I didn’t realise these problems would appear tenfold with use. It’ll probably be worse with the WoB actually. Do you know if people have experienced this with ePBT, CRP or any of the other dyesubbers as well, or is this a KAT defect specifically?
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 June 2021, 12:49:31 by Mr Chrome »

Offline KawabataLuis

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #135 on: Tue, 08 June 2021, 22:15:13 »
Hey! So, It just came to my attention that sets with normal dye subbing can have quite some problems. I don't care that much for misalignment, if it's not too bad. But my main concern is what have been happening regarding bleeding of the font after some months, I think, of use. The pic is not mine, but here is a reference:

(Attachment Link)

This is from Milkshake and I think was posted on the biip discord. A user, on the Hyperfuse discord did also confirm that the bleed happened with his KAT Alpha set. I really think that this will be the case for the BoW part of KAT Refined. I'm trying to convince myself that this is not a dealbreaker, but tbh, for me, the bleed is alot worse than yellowing or shine, from gmk, for an example. This worries me quite a bit.

Oh, no. That is a complete dealbreaker for me. Waiting a year or more for a set that doesn’t even last that long and goes for a premium price is 100% unacceptable. I never thought I’d have to join the “doubleshot or no” group but hell, misalignment and color matching is pretty minor compared to this which actually ruins legibility.

If it’s gonna stay dyesub I really will have to cancel my order.

Thank you so much for letting us know about this! I was aware that dyesub could have bleed problems in production, but I didn’t realise these problems would appear tenfold with use. It’ll probably be worse with the WoB actually. Do you know if people have experienced this with ePBT, CRP or any of the other dyesubbers as well, or is this a KAT defect specifically?

(KAT Drifter, by the way.)

Yeah, that would be at least quite a hype braker for me. But, by the way, by no means take only my word, or me as a source for this kind of information, I think discords from the designers where the sets ran are pretty good to get this kind of information yourself. And i'm completely on the same boat in terms of not minding the other issues.

Regarding dye subbing, I've been a couple of years in the hobby and never heard, or experienced, bleeding with ePBT, CRP, neither none of some fake pbt sets from Aliexpress. Though I must say i've never been that knowledgeable on these types of details about the manufacturing of keycaps.

I posted the previous post today more of a shock reaction of what is happening with some people. But I also don't even know how bad it is across all of the units sold, Don't know if it is indeed generalized with normal dye sub, or not. I seems that it might, but I'm not sure yet.

I Just hope we can find a fair solution for this problem, or that it gets fixed.

Offline nbesa

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #136 on: Tue, 08 June 2021, 22:49:05 »
I've been using my KPRepublic 9009 set for a year and have absolutely no issues, they are exactly the same as when I got them.

How a product almost twice the price and backed by the biggest vendors in the hobby can be so freaking bad baffles me.

This is unacceptable tbh, between the product issues and the lack of communication  from zF and Keyreative, why does the community keep running KAT and KAM sets? This is a joke, we are funding an experiment with awful results.

Only praises for MacSurfy because he has tried his best with Refined, but my experience with the other KAT set I ordered (Explosion) has been much worse, so I have no hope on Keyreative left
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 June 2021, 23:07:35 by nbesa »

Offline VellFlamm

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #137 on: Wed, 09 June 2021, 03:41:28 »
The milkshake was done using the older equipment and system.
I've been using the KAT ALPHA V1.1(which seems to use the newer system) every day for about 5 months now and I'm not experiencing any defects.
Further information about this could be found here
https://en.zfrontier.com/blogs/project-updates/202101-kat

That being said, the Arctic product sample must have been made in their newer equipment;
And them having alignment issues do concern me a lot tbh.
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 June 2021, 03:44:04 by VellFlamm »

Offline KawabataLuis

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #138 on: Wed, 09 June 2021, 06:55:17 »
The milkshake was done using the older equipment and system.
I've been using the KAT ALPHA V1.1(which seems to use the newer system) every day for about 5 months now and I'm not experiencing any defects.
Further information about this could be found here
https://en.zfrontier.com/blogs/project-updates/202101-kat

That being said, the Arctic product sample must have been made in their newer equipment;
And them having alignment issues do concern me a lot tbh.

Oh this is good, hope everything goes fine then. The bleeding problems that I saw were on Milkshake and Alpha, probably V1.

Offline KawabataLuis

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #139 on: Wed, 09 June 2021, 07:00:03 »
I've been using my KPRepublic 9009 set for a year and have absolutely no issues, they are exactly the same as when I got them.

How a product almost twice the price and backed by the biggest vendors in the hobby can be so freaking bad baffles me.

This is unacceptable tbh, between the product issues and the lack of communication  from zF and Keyreative, why does the community keep running KAT and KAM sets? This is a joke, we are funding an experiment with awful results.

Only praises for MacSurfy because he has tried his best with Refined, but my experience with the other KAT set I ordered (Explosion) has been much worse, so I have no hope on Keyreative left

I think the main problem is that, some of these problems, like the bleeding, comes after a while. And a ton of the KAT gbs ran before the first ones actually delivered. I remember thinking that a lot of the gbs were getting a lot of sales because of the hype on the Alpha set and because of reviews, and if there were problems, we wouldn't know until quite some sets would be already in queue. And to do a more thorough review of sample units, or color matching units is a bit hard, I think, don't know actually. And giving the issues that they addressed, is a bit hard to know what to expect.

Offline Joaquox

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #140 on: Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:23:55 »
IMO alignment is key to a set like Refined. It's a simple WoB color wise, the real work was done in refining the legends, and if that's not on point in production then what's the raison d'etre?

Offline Mr Chrome

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #141 on: Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:41:55 »
The milkshake was done using the older equipment and system.
I've been using the KAT ALPHA V1.1(which seems to use the newer system) every day for about 5 months now and I'm not experiencing any defects.
Further information about this could be found here
https://en.zfrontier.com/blogs/project-updates/202101-kat

That being said, the Arctic product sample must have been made in their newer equipment;
And them having alignment issues do concern me a lot tbh.

Oh this is good, hope everything goes fine then. The bleeding problems that I saw were on Milkshake and Alpha, probably V1.

While I’d love to be relieved, was KAT Drifter made with the old machines or the new? The zFrontier post doesn’t make it clear which equipment was used for that set.

EDIT: Seems the blurred legends shown were of DSA Drifter, not KAT Drifter, so good chance it’s the old manufacturing which caused it, or we hope.

IMO alignment is key to a set like Refined. It's a simple WoB color wise, the real work was done in refining the legends, and if that's not on point in production then what's the raison d'etre?

I agree, mostly, and that’s why blurred dyesub legends for this set would be an absolute tragedy. I doubt they would make doubleshot molds for Refined, but if they did, at least there’d be no doubts about the legends’ longevity. For now though, if a black/white ePBT set entered GB with the kits I need, I would jump ship fast. People have been testing those sets for years.
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 June 2021, 12:52:55 by Mr Chrome »

Offline azzipa

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #142 on: Wed, 09 June 2021, 10:08:52 »
how, exactly, would you jump ship? monies already paid to vendor. gb people just wait for updates and eventual delivery. after more than a year of covid disruptions and extended supply chain issues i'm likely done with gb's for a while while production and delivery get sorted.  :-[

in the future my money will go only towards projects/manufacturers that show evidence of their ability to produce a quality product in something close to the promised amount of time.  :D

Offline Mr Chrome

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #143 on: Wed, 09 June 2021, 12:10:40 »
how, exactly, would you jump ship? monies already paid to vendor. gb people just wait for updates and eventual delivery. after more than a year of covid disruptions and extended supply chain issues i'm likely done with gb's for a while while production and delivery get sorted.  :-[

in the future my money will go only towards projects/manufacturers that show evidence of their ability to produce a quality product in something close to the promised amount of time.  :D

Ah, I ordered mine as a pre-order of extras, so pretty sure I can still cancel as long as it hasn’t shipped. Personally, I think the “promised time” of delivery doesn’t matter nearly as much as the promised quality of product, and this is where I can’t trust KAT so far. Time is affected too much by demand, to be fair. The doubleshot test runs do look good though, so that might be their way out of this whole mess for future sets.

Offline KawabataLuis

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #144 on: Thu, 10 June 2021, 17:24:06 »
Rensuya gave an update about changing Atlantis, Explosion and Mizu to doubleshot (As far as my english alowed me to understand). Given that Refined would come after some of these (I believe Atlantis and explosion?). I think keeping a close eye for the doubleshot samples to indeed consider changing Refined to doubleshot, if possible. Even though the dye subbing might not affect this set as we think it might, the safest would be changing, imo. That would possibly fix the alignment issues, though it would have to more deeply tested with samples, I assume.

Offline paperassgasket

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #145 on: Thu, 10 June 2021, 18:54:07 »
That would be pretty awesome if this set were the impetus for future doubleshot sets with GMK legends. I'm all for making the switch to doubleshot (especially since it would mean we are more likely to get a deeper black) even if that means it takes longer.
I don't know if Keyreative will be offering this option for this set but if they do I hope it is considered


Offline VellFlamm

  • Posts: 54
Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #146 on: Thu, 10 June 2021, 19:49:24 »
The design doesn't allow for doubleshots. It simply can't.
Only thing we can do is just hope that s*** don't happen in production.

edit: bad wording
« Last Edit: Thu, 10 June 2021, 20:58:23 by VellFlamm »

Offline paperassgasket

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #147 on: Thu, 10 June 2021, 20:33:52 »
The design doesn't allow for doubleshots. It simply can't.
Only thing we can do is just hope that **** don't happen in production.

I'm curious as to specifically why it can't. Not like we would get an answer out of Keyreative any time soon but the test moulds they've made so far seem to be producing decent results. I see no reason why they couldn't develop new molds for this set as well aside from cost but even then this set did pretty well as far as sales and it's not like those molds wouldn't be useful to any future sets.


Offline VellFlamm

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #148 on: Thu, 10 June 2021, 20:56:43 »
The Refined uses a non-round fonts with sharp edges. And doubleshots can't do that.
And the font is one of the fundamental design choices of this set.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106725.0

Offline lakeboredom

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Re: [GB] KAT Refined
« Reply #149 on: Fri, 11 June 2021, 02:20:44 »
Looking at the KAT Atlantis samples (including the novelties), I can't see any reason this set's font couldn't be doubleshot. I wouldn't mind waiting longer if we made the switch like rensuyas sets. If any kat set deserves it, it's this one.