Author Topic: Any Discounts For Geekhack Forum Members ?  (Read 14571 times)

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Offline Dirty Bint

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Any Discounts For Geekhack Forum Members ?
« on: Sat, 15 May 2010, 03:15:57 »
Bruce,

Any discounts for Geekhack forum members on orders from the Keyboard Company - local UK shipping ?

You have a sub forum on the Geekhack web site to support and promote your products so a forum member discount would be appropriate.

Discounts are often offered by suppliers who participate in internet web sites dedicated to enthusiast interest groups.

Rgds
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Offline JBert

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« Reply #1 on: Sat, 15 May 2010, 12:59:33 »
I don't know whether to answer "nice try" or "learn to search".
The only detail I miss in the latter post is if he was talking about all items or just the Filcos.
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Offline Half-Saint

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« Reply #2 on: Sat, 15 May 2010, 14:52:26 »
I think DB's request is perfectly legitimate. As a scuba diver and a member of national scuba association I get 10% discount in all stores, no matter what I want to buy.

Quote
DISCOUNT.
Geekhack members with a join date prior to Aug 2009 (That's inclusive so there's time) buying 5 pieces get 5% and 10 pieces gets 10%.


I'm sorry but I find this laughable. First of all, this excludes EVERYONE who joined after the above mentioned date. Second, how many people are going to buy 5 keyboards?! Even if a group order was made by one member, the cost of re-sending the individual boards would completely null any discount given.

Just my 2cents...
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Offline Dirty Bint

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« Reply #3 on: Sat, 15 May 2010, 16:41:58 »
JBert,

The original post by Bruce was made in August 2009 and he indicated it was members before August 2009 who could get discounts. However, we are now 9 months further on and Bruce may wish to review the situation with an update.

Personally, several enthusiast forums I know of have suppliers who offer quite reasonable discounts to forum members in some cases up to 10% depending on the product.

After all, what is the purpose of The Keyboard Company having a sub forum on this site, simple, it is to promote and sell their products. I have no issues with that, however, a reasonable discount should be available to forum members in return for the forum provding them with a sub forum to promote their products and services.

The same principle applies to the other sub forums on this site used by other commercial organisations to promote their products.



Rgds
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Offline Bruce

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« Reply #4 on: Sat, 15 May 2010, 16:48:04 »
Hi Dirty Bint

That's a fair question - I'm happy to discuss this.

I posted the discount details in Aug 2009 so it did include everyone at that point. It would be no problem to bring that up to present day.
Any higher level of discount is a bit more tricky. Buying multiples does indeed save us time and effort and usually carriage so yes, we are happy to pass that on.
When shipping out in ones and twos all we can do is cut into margin - which isn't much anyway.

We're really keen to encourage as many people as possible to get the Filco Experience and I personally want as many Filcos out there as possible. Because I believe the best advert for a Filco - is a Filco.
With this in mind - when we originally did the sums we were mindful of the high price being a dis-incentive to buy and kept it as low as possible so that the published price looked OK. I am also keen to do what I can to avoid the 'Rip off Britain' and 'Rip of Europe' thing and you'll notice our prices stand up quite well in this respect. Despite the fact that there are very good reasons why goods are generally more expensive in Europe. This is something I urge you to take up with your Euro MP by the way.

There is an added complication currently in that currencies are unstable and I deal in Euro, Dollars, Sterling and Yen so I honestly can't tell you what the next batch will cost me. And Sterling isn't the high flyer right now.

Our UK customers do benefit from free carriage which represents £6.00 straight off.
I'd also say that if you want to make a commercial success of selling a product like Filco a pile it high, sell it cheap approach isn't going to be sustainable. You'll notice all the 'volume' merchants are no help with anything unusual.
That's because you are not going to attract the volume you need and you still need to be able to afford a really high level of customer service.

So in summary I have to say - sorry - as much as I would like to I can't offer any more substantial discount right now. I will however pass on any savings we can make in future (to everyone) and I do very much value the priveleges we have on Geekhack.

I would also add that having a Filco is worth every penny, even at £100 plus it is my opinion that they represent excellent value, it can last you forever, and I don't want to type on anything else.

That's as simple as I can put it without writing chapters.

Offline Dirty Bint

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« Reply #5 on: Sat, 15 May 2010, 17:03:36 »
Bruce,

Thank you for taking the time to read the thread and make a reply.

Is reality, you are not offering a discount on a Filco keyboard unless the purchaser buys 5 units and most purchasers will not buy 5 units.

I am aware of the "Rip Off Britain" syndrome, I have been a victim of it for decades, hence my hope of a sensible discount as a forum member.

I do not agree with the principle of the forum providing your company with a platform to promote their products where the forum members in practice get nothing in return.


Regards
Dirty Bint
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #6 on: Sat, 15 May 2010, 17:57:10 »
Giving consideration to the fact that a retailer which focuses specifically on keyboards - ones which aren't universally popular, even - it is absolutely ridiculous to hope for said retailer to cut into their margins (especially when retailer claims their margins are low as it is, and we have no reason to believe otherwise). That's like asking Unicomp for discounts...for all we know these companies could currently operate at a net loss as it is.

As an alternative I would suggest the availability of geekhack-only accessories (of course at extra cost to the buyer, but available only to members of geekhack).
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #7 on: Sat, 15 May 2010, 18:02:43 »
Despite what the cheapskates have to say, Bruce is completely right here.

Let's look at this rationally - mechanical keyboards are very much a niche market. Geekhack is the keyboard resource for pretty much everywhere that isn't China, Japan or Korea. The odds are that if you are in the market for a Filco, you are either a member of this site, or you are going to encounter this site in your search for what you want (this is a tech product, and people who are in the market for high end tech products tend to be informed people who search around) or you find a blog, site or forum that links you here. So what Dirty Bint et al. are proposing effectively amounts to a discount for anyone who wants to buy the keyboard. Great.

I'm not buying the Scuba anecdote at all. So, a member of Scuba diving club gets a discount in a store selling Scuba equipment... As opposed to the people who aren't in Scuba clubs who buy stuff from Scuba shops? It reminds me of the "Recommended Retail Price" trick used by manufacturers and retailers - you put some outrageous price as your RRP, but the retailer sells it for less and boasts how much money the consumer is saving, but ultimately the saving is an illusion because you were never going to pay that much in the first place.

Maybe Bruce should raise the price of the Filco to £1,000, and then have a big sign on his site saying that if you join Geekhack, you will only have to pay [insert Keyboard Co's Filco price here] because what appears to be wanted here is not as much better value for money (which I think is perfectly satisfactory as it stands given the quality of Filco keyboards) as much as some token excuse to feel less begrudged to reach into the big bag of shekels under your bed.

Quote
I do not agree with the principle of the forum providing your company with a platform to promote their products where the forum members in practice get nothing in return.


Hi, you're new here. I can tell because you obviously don't remember the days when people coughed up close to $400 for a Topre Realforce. When a single red Topre cap cost $20. When a Filco keyboard was a serious investment that required you to put your faith and about $200 or so in the hands of a Japanese middle man. When an email to PFU about buying the HHKB outside of Japan got a reply to the effect of "**** off, we don't sell outside Japan".

Then we got people like Bruce, Brian, Ms Keyboard etc etc who were able to get us our delicious hardware to us much cheaper, and without worrying about import duties and losing the stuff on the way from South East Asia... They come here, listen to us, and provide us what we want. They get guaranteed sales, we get cool stuff cheap - that's a mutually beneficial arrangement for you. Also, as we all know eachother here on a relatively informal basis, it makes it much easier to rectify problems or ask for special requests. Personally I think it's an enlightened way of doing business. Who cares if the discount wasn't the best thing around, it was a way of establish rapport with the customers in a way that didn't damage the profitability of their sales.

[/rant]
« Last Edit: Sat, 15 May 2010, 18:08:34 by ch_123 »

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #8 on: Sat, 15 May 2010, 18:24:02 »
Well, the sort of vaguely insinuated point from my overextended rant was that if they wanted to offer a meaningful discount, they'd have to raise the price so that you could get the warm fuzzy feeling of saving money while in fact paying what you were going to pay anyway. Thus making it a meaningless discount.

Guess if you were going to do that, you'd have to do it from the outset. No point in doing it when everyone knows what you're trying to do.

Offline InSanCen

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« Reply #9 on: Sat, 15 May 2010, 18:29:24 »
cH_123 pretty much sums up what I was thinking. This is a niche market, volume is naturally low. The ability to discount, no matter all the good intentions, is limited by what Bruce needs to make to turn any sort of profit on what he sells. Yes, I work in Retail, so I see it from both sides of the fence.

Besides, there is no realistic level of discount that could be applied that would offset great service.

When I decide to get a Filco, and it's out of the "You bought WHAT for HOW much???" zone that the other half is currently placing all things KB in at the moment, then Bruce *will* get my order. Sod the discount.
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Offline Dirty Bint

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« Reply #10 on: Sun, 16 May 2010, 04:35:48 »
ch_123,

Why do you feel the need to resort to calling other forum members cheapskates, do you think that by issuing insults it reinforces the validity of your reply?

Also, I did not realise that a member had to have a long membership in order for them to post a valid question. The length of my membership is irrelevant, I have made my points politely and without attempting to insult any person.

I asked a question and indicated that I did not agree with The Keyboard Company getting free advertising and promotion of their products on this forum without members getting a discount in return.


Regards
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Offline JBert

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« Reply #11 on: Sun, 16 May 2010, 05:29:52 »
Quote from: Dirty Bint;182861
Why do you feel the need to resort to calling other forum members cheapskates, do you think that by issuing insults it reinforces the validity of your reply?
Sorry to jump in after acting smug earlier on, but "cheapskate" is an earned title here. Ask kishy. ;-)
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #12 on: Sun, 16 May 2010, 05:32:50 »
Quote from: Dirty Bint;182861
ch_123,

Why do you feel the need to resort to calling other forum members cheapskates, do you think that by issuing insults it reinforces the validity of your reply?

Also, I did not realise that a member had to have a long membership in order for them to post a valid question. The length of my membership is irrelevant, I have made my points politely and without attempting to insult any person.

I asked a question and indicated that I did not agree with The Keyboard Company getting free advertising and promotion of their products on this forum without members getting a discount in return.


Regards
Dirty Bint


As I said, there are other benefits to having sellers here other than getting imaginary discounts.

Offline hoggy

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« Reply #13 on: Sun, 16 May 2010, 05:38:56 »
Quote from: Bruce;182727
...You'll notice all the 'volume' merchants are no help with anything unusual.
That's because you are not going to attract the volume you need and you still need to be able to afford a really high level of customer service....


Bruce and team have been very helpful to me in the past.  They've fulfilled an order for me that several other companies simply ignored and the rest just responded with a stock email saying "no"  (All of these companies would have been able to get hold of the items I was after...)

I live on an Island within the British Isles, so I have to pay postage, but it's still better than importing a Filco and the like from elsewhere.

I'd rather keyboardco took enough profit to survive long enough for me (& others) to use them again.  It seems the cheaper option long term to me.
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Offline Dirty Bint

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« Reply #14 on: Sun, 16 May 2010, 07:40:23 »
Quote from: webwit;182874
Opinions are good, whining about someone's opinion is lame. You are looking for discounts for boutique products, but don't want to be called cheap, I find that particular. Are you looking to get it cheaper (by saying they shouldn't get free advertising - man they'll love to give you a discount now) or are you looking into paying them a bonus for their work?


I am not whining about anyones opinion, I asked why ch_123 felt the need to reply using an insult. In addition, I asked what the relevance was of my membership duration on the forum and stated that "seniority" is an irrelevance in respect of a valid question.

I do not expect to get a discount from The Keyboard Company, however, that does not detract from the fact that The Keyboard Company are using this forum as a free platform to promote their products with nothing in return for forum members.

Rgds
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #15 on: Sun, 16 May 2010, 10:13:38 »
There's a sort of underlying insinuation here that unless Bruce gives us a discount, it means that Keyboard Co is somehow ****ing us over. Thus my comments.

Offline kishy

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« Reply #16 on: Sun, 16 May 2010, 21:27:07 »
Geez, I make an anti-cheap remark and am ignored?

It's definitely a fair question in the OP but any failure to agree with or at least see the validity of the responses so far would be rather unreasonable.
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Offline ricercar

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« Reply #17 on: Sun, 16 May 2010, 21:31:45 »
Quote from: webwit;182982
I've been gaming reddit while this playground was down.


So it wasn't just me. I've just arrived after being unable to connect to Geekhack all day. Is there a thread with an explanation?
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Offline Dirty Bint

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« Reply #18 on: Mon, 17 May 2010, 02:17:29 »
I may be a "Dirty Bint" but I am also a reasonable and accomodating bint. I do respect other peoples opposing views on the subject but reserve the option not to agree with them.

From my side, my question is now closed and it is time to move on, thank you for all your replies presenting various views, it adds to the debate on the site.

Regards
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Offline Half-Saint

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« Reply #19 on: Mon, 17 May 2010, 02:21:34 »
Quote from: ch_123;182775
I'm not buying the Scuba anecdote at all. So, a member of Scuba diving club gets a discount in a store selling Scuba equipment... As opposed to the people who aren't in Scuba clubs who buy stuff from Scuba shops?


Heh, believe it or not, it's true. The members of SPZ (slovenian scuba diving association) do get the discount but SPZ membership costs you 30eur annually. Club membership is also not free (25eur in my club). Scuba shops get free promotion from clubs which means more sales so they can afford the discount.

So, as a Rush used to sing "You don't get something for nothing".
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Offline Bruce

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« Reply #20 on: Mon, 17 May 2010, 04:15:16 »
I think the thread itself has proved the value of the forum.

Dirty Bint has asked a perfectly valid question of me, I've answered honestly and openly, various keyboard experts have added reasoned comment and a couple of customers have relayed their first hand experience too. Where else do you get all that for free, without getting off the sofa?

Pricing and discounts are always an issue and i'm always prepared to answer your questions. Don't go into business if you can't handle that.

My long term goal is to have enough people buying Filco to bring prices down by getting volume up. In this we have a common purpose. Spreading 'The Word' is key. I would be keen to explore Webwits ideas.

Offline iMav

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« Reply #21 on: Tue, 18 May 2010, 11:56:03 »
Quote from: Dirty Bint;182738
I do not agree with the principle of the forum providing your company with a platform to promote their products where the forum members in practice get nothing in return.
The purpose of the vendor forums is to give geekhacker's an open line of communication with the vendors.  They get exposure to their customers (and potential customers), we get a forum where we can ask questions, express concerns, etc.

I believe it's a great relationship.