Author Topic: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - WoB, BoW Shipped  (Read 12808 times)

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Offline Hoffman@Drop

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[GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - WoB, BoW Shipped
« on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 12:37:30 »
Hey all!

As you might have heard, Drop is debuting a brand new keyset profile, DCX. For the initial launch, it will be available in White on Black, Black on White, and Genesis colorways - all bundled together in this thread to avoid cluttering things up.



If you haven’t already, check out the first three story posts over on drop.com for some background and additional information on the profile itself.



Links

WoB

BoW

Genesis

Timeline
GB Dates (WoB and BoW): 2022-04-26 - 2022-06-20, Early Bird pricing ends 2022-04-30
GB Dates (Genesis): 2022-04-26 - 2022-08-22, Early Bird pricing ends 2022-04-30
Estimated Fulfillment (BoW & WoB): Mid-June (Mac Kits slightly later)
Estimated Fulfillment (Genesis): Mid-August

Pricing
ColorwayKitPrice (USD)
WoBBase79 Early Bird, 89 Preorder
WoBMac25
WoBSpacebars15
BoWBase79 Early Bird, 89 Preorder
BoWMac25
BoWSpacebars15
GenesisBase79

Kitting Renders
WoB Base


WoB Mac


WoB Spacebars


BoW Base


BoW Mac


BoW Spacebars


Genesis Base


Additional Photos (not renders)










Please post any questions regarding any of the three sets or DCX in general here. :thumb:

Edit: Removed image with apparent cosmetic issue, as this is not representative of the set. Crop of said image can be found below if you want that juicy drama.
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 June 2022, 09:40:43 by Hoffman@Drop »

Offline dededecline

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 12:52:29 »
Gonna repost my comment from the Drop section here:

Mac getting legend support while 40s don't even have physical support is lame.
No Alice B is also pretty outdated kitting, especially when you go out of your way to add GK64 support (2u shift+1u shift+R4 1u delete).

Offline walie

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:07:19 »
Your layouts still say MT2

This whole thing has been an abortion lol

Offline Rafa_n

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:14:33 »

Offline DukeEsquire

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:16:11 »
I wish you guys ran a real IC.

Missing a second B even though you have a Alice-style spacebar kit is a real oversight.

Offline Heist Morty

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:16:50 »
Gonna repost my comment from the Drop section here:

Mac getting legend support while 40s don't even have physical support is lame.
No Alice B is also pretty outdated kitting, especially when you go out of your way to add GK64 support (2u shift+1u shift+R4 1u delete).

^ This + L + ratio

Offline HoodrowThrillson

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:24:43 »
Show Image

Their graphic designer forgot to photoshop that out.
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Offline Hoffman@Drop

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:25:16 »
Gonna repost my comment from the Drop section here:

Mac getting legend support while 40s don't even have physical support is lame.
No Alice B is also pretty outdated kitting, especially when you go out of your way to add GK64 support (2u shift+1u shift+R4 1u delete).

Yeah, I hear that. The way the molds are setup, adding a second B is not feasible. Better 40s support down the line is possible, all a matter of MOQs.

Your layouts still say MT2

This whole thing has been an abortion lol

Woof - yeah, that's on me for using old images. Fixing.

Appreciate the constructive feedback. :thumb:

I wish you guys ran a real IC.

Missing a second B even though you have a Alice-style spacebar kit is a real oversight.

I think the main focus was on providing physical keys to support the layout, even if the legends are off. So the spacebars were a necessity there, while the extra B was not.

Show Image


:confused: Not sure what's going on there. Obviously that is not how the caps actually look, but good catch.

Show Image

Their graphic designer forgot to photoshop that out.

I mean, do you really think that's what the caps will look like and there's a big photoshop cover-up going on, just waiting to be exposed a few months?  :))
« Last Edit: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:27:35 by Hoffman@Drop »

Offline Rafa_n

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:27:27 »
Also, even considering that Massdrop owns GH, Hoff working directly with them while also being a GH mod seems a bit sus.

Especially given the fact that this probably shouldn't have been posted in this section of the forum.

Offline andromache

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:28:26 »
Since you have protos, any reason why you can't post a pic of the DCX caps next to GMK caps so we can see how the profiles compare?

Offline HoodrowThrillson

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:30:02 »
Show Image

Their graphic designer forgot to photoshop that out.

I mean, do you really think that's what the caps will look like and there's a big photoshop cover-up going on, just waiting to be exposed a few months?  :))
Could just have been a slight prototype issue or something and you gotta use what you have to produce product photos (source: am in marketing)
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Offline HoodrowThrillson

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:30:39 »
Also, even considering that Massdrop owns GH, Hoff working directly with them while also being a GH mod seems a bit sus.

Especially given the fact that this probably shouldn't have been posted in this section of the forum.
To be fair, this isn't an in stock item so it can live here.
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Offline Hoffman@Drop

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:31:20 »
Also, even considering that Massdrop owns GH, Hoff working directly with them while also being a GH mod seems a bit sus.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=116783.0

Especially given the fact that this probably shouldn't have been posted in this section of the forum.

What is different about this compared to all the other keyset GBs that are posted here?

Since you have protos, any reason why you can't post a pic of the DCX caps next to GMK caps so we can see how the profiles compare?

I'd be happy to. Any specific angles in addition to the straight side profile?

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:33:03 »
Gonna repost my comment from the Drop section here:

Mac getting legend support while 40s don't even have physical support is lame.
No Alice B is also pretty outdated kitting, especially when you go out of your way to add GK64 support (2u shift+1u shift+R4 1u delete).

Yeah, I hear that. The way the molds are setup, adding a second B is not feasible. Better 40s support down the line is possible, all a matter of MOQs.

Wait, isn't the entire production of this profile Drop's baby?  Did they just design it to have the kitting be inflexible?

That seems mighty foolish if the point is to be a competitor to GMK and such.

Offline Heist Morty

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:34:10 »
Quote
Quote
Missing a second B even though you have a Alice-style spacebar kit is a real oversight.

I think the main focus was on providing physical keys to support the layout, even if the legends are off. So the spacebars were a necessity there, while the extra B was not.


so why does mac get such extensive legend compat when no physical 40s or ortho compat?

Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:36:07 »
Also, even considering that Massdrop owns GH, Hoff working directly with them while also being a GH mod seems a bit sus.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=116783.0

Especially given the fact that this probably shouldn't have been posted in this section of the forum.

What is different about this compared to all the other keyset GBs that are posted here?

Since you have protos, any reason why you can't post a pic of the DCX caps next to GMK caps so we can see how the profiles compare?

I'd be happy to. Any specific angles in addition to the straight side profile?

some close up angles from top down would be nice, and maybe some coming from the sides. Most interested in some mod key comparisons

Offline Signature

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:47:31 »
Also, even considering that Massdrop owns GH, Hoff working directly with them while also being a GH mod seems a bit sus.

Especially given the fact that this probably shouldn't have been posted in this section of the forum.
???

Hoffman does not approve his own posts but is approved by other moderators.
Very busy with studies atm.

Offline mud2

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 13:49:11 »
Is this really a limited run group buy or is this a pre-order for sets that will be sold as in-stock items once production allows? For such basic colorways in your signature profile one would imagine these would be kept in stock

Offline Fraaaan

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 14:12:37 »
Gonna repost my comment from the Drop section here:

Mac getting legend support while 40s don't even have physical support is lame.
No Alice B is also pretty outdated kitting, especially when you go out of your way to add GK64 support (2u shift+1u shift+R4 1u delete).

Yeah, I hear that. The way the molds are setup, adding a second B is not feasible. Better 40s support down the line is possible, all a matter of MOQs.

Adding a 2nd B is definitely feasible, especially with Drop's budget. They're just too cheap and/or proud to admit they've made a mistake so all Alice users will have to use a zero on their B. Very unfortunate for the community. Hopefully this gets resolved in the future...

Also pretty disappointing to see Drop doing group buys. Really?! The mechanical keyboard community IS NOT a few people on a small forum anymore. Drop is a sizeable company with a budget that would allow for just selling this in-stock with regular restocks if the product is successful. The whole point of a group buy was to reach an MOQ as a small group of enthusiasts in a world of big manufacturers. Corporations like Drop and Hyte (iBuyPower) need to stop using community methods from 10 years ago.

Offline DukeEsquire

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 14:18:07 »
Gonna repost my comment from the Drop section here:

Mac getting legend support while 40s don't even have physical support is lame.
No Alice B is also pretty outdated kitting, especially when you go out of your way to add GK64 support (2u shift+1u shift+R4 1u delete).

Yeah, I hear that. The way the molds are setup, adding a second B is not feasible. Better 40s support down the line is possible, all a matter of MOQs.

Adding a 2nd B is definitely feasible, especially with Drop's budget. They're just too cheap and/or proud to admit they've made a mistake so all Alice users will have to use a zero on their B. Very unfortunate for the community. Hopefully this gets resolved in the future...

Also pretty disappointing to see Drop doing group buys. Really?! The mechanical keyboard community IS NOT a few people on a small forum anymore. Drop is a sizeable company with a budget that would allow for just selling this in-stock with regular restocks if the product is successful. The whole point of a group buy was to reach an MOQ as a small group of enthusiasts in a world of big manufacturers. Corporations like Drop and Hyte (iBuyPower) need to stop using community methods from 10 years ago.

I don't really mind the pre-order model even from Drop. They are offering people a discount upfront. I'm sure they will do in-stock sales going forward.

Offline Hoffman@Drop

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 14:21:10 »
Gonna repost my comment from the Drop section here:

Mac getting legend support while 40s don't even have physical support is lame.
No Alice B is also pretty outdated kitting, especially when you go out of your way to add GK64 support (2u shift+1u shift+R4 1u delete).

Yeah, I hear that. The way the molds are setup, adding a second B is not feasible. Better 40s support down the line is possible, all a matter of MOQs.

Wait, isn't the entire production of this profile Drop's baby?  Did they just design it to have the kitting be inflexible?

That seems mighty foolish if the point is to be a competitor to GMK and such.

It's a little more nuanced than that, and I think my initial response did a poor job of illustrating the reality of it.

Drop does own the tooling and manufacturing process, and can therefore make adjustments and new tooling as needed. For this initial launch of the product line, these "expanded" Base Kits were prioritized as the ideal starting point in terms of tooling. The Mac Kit was the first bonus set of tooling that was pursued, and 40s tooling is in the running for the next prioritized set of tooling to produce.

Where the "inflexibility" that you allude to comes in is that each individual tool of course cannot be adjusted, so at this point in time adding a second B is not feasible. However, it could be included in a future additional tool that's created.

Quote
Quote
Missing a second B even though you have a Alice-style spacebar kit is a real oversight.

I think the main focus was on providing physical keys to support the layout, even if the legends are off. So the spacebars were a necessity there, while the extra B was not.

so why does mac get such extensive legend compat when no physical 40s or ortho compat?

Great question. :) Simply a matter of order - the Mac Kit was completed first, with other kits to follow in the future. Whether any individual person agrees with this order is up for debate, of course. Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż

Since you have protos, any reason why you can't post a pic of the DCX caps next to GMK caps so we can see how the profiles compare?

I'd be happy to. Any specific angles in addition to the straight side profile?

some close up angles from top down would be nice, and maybe some coming from the sides. Most interested in some mod key comparisons

Will do. :thumb:

Is this really a limited run group buy or is this a pre-order for sets that will be sold as in-stock items once production allows? For such basic colorways in your signature profile one would imagine these would be kept in stock

These will eventually be stocked, yes.

Gonna repost my comment from the Drop section here:

Mac getting legend support while 40s don't even have physical support is lame.
No Alice B is also pretty outdated kitting, especially when you go out of your way to add GK64 support (2u shift+1u shift+R4 1u delete).

Yeah, I hear that. The way the molds are setup, adding a second B is not feasible. Better 40s support down the line is possible, all a matter of MOQs.

Adding a 2nd B is definitely feasible, especially with Drop's budget. They're just too cheap and/or proud to admit they've made a mistake so all Alice users will have to use a zero on their B. Very unfortunate for the community. Hopefully this gets resolved in the future...

Also pretty disappointing to see Drop doing group buys. Really?! The mechanical keyboard community IS NOT a few people on a small forum anymore. Drop is a sizeable company with a budget that would allow for just selling this in-stock with regular restocks if the product is successful. The whole point of a group buy was to reach an MOQ as a small group of enthusiasts in a world of big manufacturers. Corporations like Drop and Hyte (iBuyPower) need to stop using community methods from 10 years ago.

Anything is possible, but no - this is not feasible with the way the molds are setup. Not really an issue of pride to state a fact.

Your point about group buys applies to everything run in the community now. Nothing is run in the same scrappy "group buy" format of the old days. So sure, I agree with you, but it's really an issue of semantics at this point.

Offline Hoffman@Drop

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 16:11:15 »
some close up angles from top down would be nice, and maybe some coming from the sides. Most interested in some mod key comparisons

Side pics coming shortly, but for now some front, back, and top pics.

Left is DCX, right is GMK






Left is DCX, right is Cherry



Offline kapowaz

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 16:50:48 »
Could you show us the underside (a bit more clearly)? I always like to see the construction on doubleshot keycaps! And would these moulds support shine-through legends? Also, no UK-ISO support? After it became a fixture of the MT3 base kits I thought it might happen here too, but alas no. Any possibility that might change?

Offline abucazu

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 17:31:38 »
Would be cool if you could make an international kit like PBT Notion/PBT Milkshake

Offline MattVortex

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 17:44:45 »
Can you show a picture of the profile of each row from the side, compared to cherry?

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 19:02:15 »
Cool.  We already see the benefit of having Hoff at Drop!

It looks like someone took GMK and sliced off the top few millimeters.  I like it!

Offline Hoffman@Drop

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 20:23:48 »
Can finally share some side pics with y'all.

Rows 1-1


Rows 2-3


Rows 4-4


Offset side profile


Front


Most interested in some mod key comparisons

And some mod comparisons - hope these illustrate some of the key differences well enough. :) I included the 6^ key as it best illustrates some of the legend choices that were made with DCX (same width for both '6' and '^').



Note that this pic is comparing DCX to an older Cherry set (hence the shine).

Offline DukeEsquire

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 22:01:03 »
While I have concerns about the kitting, credit where credit is due. The keycaps do look great.

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 22:51:54 »
Isn't the name "DCX" liable to cause confusion with "DCS"?
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Offline Nuap

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 23:04:02 »
Isn't the name "DCX" liable to cause confusion with "DCS"?


That's better than the previous name MT2 causing confusion about the involvement of Matt3o (of which there was none).

Offline blighty

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 23:24:33 »
It looks like row 3 on DCX being slightly higher in back compared to Cherry will be good for people with north-facing in-switch LEDs.  Designed to not bottom out on the LEDs perhaps? 
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Offline thechemtrailkid

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 23:29:16 »
How thick are these? Any chance of being able to triple shot if the colorway calls for it?

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 27 April 2022, 08:56:28 »
Wait, isn't the entire production of this profile Drop's baby?  Did they just design it to have the kitting be inflexible?

That seems mighty foolish if the point is to be a competitor to GMK and such.

It's a little more nuanced than that, and I think my initial response did a poor job of illustrating the reality of it.

Drop does own the tooling and manufacturing process, and can therefore make adjustments and new tooling as needed. For this initial launch of the product line, these "expanded" Base Kits were prioritized as the ideal starting point in terms of tooling. The Mac Kit was the first bonus set of tooling that was pursued, and 40s tooling is in the running for the next prioritized set of tooling to produce.

Where the "inflexibility" that you allude to comes in is that each individual tool of course cannot be adjusted, so at this point in time adding a second B is not feasible. However, it could be included in a future additional tool that's created.


I think that's still the issue though.  Instead of a modular setup, like what SP and GMK use, designers are locked into the DCX kitting and legend choices.  New tools are coming, sure, and that will definitely help with compatibility.  But for artistic expression?  Kitting and legend choices are often an integral part of a keycap set's design, and this goes beyond just novelties. 

Instead of just having a low cost per each new legend, every variation on that default kitting is going to require new tooling instead. Drop will have to have a meeting where they decide "Is this good for the business?" instead of just saying, "Yes, Mr. / Ms. designer, we can do that; it will cost 50 bucks per legend."

Plus there's the question of things like gradients and non-standard accents.  Are these all-in-one kits going to support per-key color differences?  Or are they just broken into mods and alphas?  What if someone wants to do RGB accents on Shift, Control, and Alt, with no accents on Escape or Enter?

This just seems like DCX is poised to compete with Domikey and JTK rather than SP or GMK.  It's not going to be a great option for designers who are looking for the ability to work with the finer details of a set.  I'm just surprised that Drop would invest so much into something that will have to be a second-string option for designers.

Moreover, because this design isn't modular, it means that kitting errors / eccentricities are enshrined forever.  Like your spacebar kit: you have just one each of 2u and 1.75u.  With 2u bars, it's preferable (though not necessary) to have two of them; this is similar to the reason for having 2x1u bars (as that kit does).  But with 1.75u bars?  There aren't many boards using those, and the majority that do also use a pair of them.  1.75u bars should always come in pairs or not at all.

Likewise, the Mac kit appears to have been copied from a GMK GB that made an error (or just chose to include something highly nonstandard): there is no such thing as R3 1.75u Command in a standard Mac layout.  Command isn't a swap for Control.  There may be some user layouts like that, but historically Apple keyboards that don't use Caps Lock in that slot will put Control there instead.  By locking into that kit, you've de facto standardized a highly niche choice within an already niche kit.
« Last Edit: Wed, 27 April 2022, 09:11:15 by NoPunIn10Did »

Offline mr_foggy

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 27 April 2022, 09:12:38 »
nope

Offline norb

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 27 April 2022, 16:29:28 »
so this is basically a cherry profile clone or am i missing something? no offense, just wondering.

Offline DukeEsquire

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 27 April 2022, 17:57:15 »
so this is basically a cherry profile clone or am i missing something? no offense, just wondering.

Yes.

Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 28 April 2022, 11:00:32 »
Legends look pretty great although that shif t bothers me a little

Offline Adelscott

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 28 April 2022, 13:16:11 »
Legends look pretty great although that shif t bothers me a little

Yes the shif t is fvcke d up
Please think about ISO users, add a split left shift to your "alice style" keyboards

Offline Rilow

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 28 April 2022, 13:46:14 »
What about some regional vendors, so non-US buyers can get in on it?

Offline Hoffman@Drop

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 22 June 2022, 14:26:10 »
Production/Shipping Update


Keycap Legend Issue
Also shared on the Drop product page:
We have identified an issue on the R4 1u <> ISO key, and wanted to bring it to everyone’s attention as soon as possible. The legends on this key are vertically swapped - it should be ‘>’ on top, ‘<’ on bottom, but is reversed. In order to fix this issue we took our existing keycap molds offline (the molds have multiple keys on a single mold) and replaced the problematic mold. The issue has now been resolved, and all future DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis sets produced will incorporate this fix. There are a number of DCX WoB and BoW sets which have already been produced with the original mold (to be clear - no Genesis sets will be affected by this).   

What does this mean for any sets that were produced with the swapped key? We will be creating fix kits for this particular issue, which can be requested once they are available. We will communicate this process further after the kits are available and ready to go. We apologize for this oversight and thank you for the understanding and support so far.



I think that's still the issue though.  Instead of a modular setup, like what SP and GMK use, designers are locked into the DCX kitting and legend choices.  New tools are coming, sure, and that will definitely help with compatibility.  But for artistic expression?  Kitting and legend choices are often an integral part of a keycap set's design, and this goes beyond just novelties. 

Instead of just having a low cost per each new legend, every variation on that default kitting is going to require new tooling instead. Drop will have to have a meeting where they decide "Is this good for the business?" instead of just saying, "Yes, Mr. / Ms. designer, we can do that; it will cost 50 bucks per legend."

You're not wrong about the implications to kitting and artistic expression. Ultimately this decision was made as it produces an entire set of keycaps in one injection process, rather than a bin of each key that then need to be manually sorted after the fact. Each process has its pros and cons, and someone else might arrive at a different conclusion when presented with the same information.

And while I don't know allll of the nitty gritty details, do bear in mind that tweaks to specific legends are significantly cheaper than an entirely new tool (with new overall cavities). So custom/modified legends are definitely possible, and we are actually working on a few variations currently.

Plus there's the question of things like gradients and non-standard accents.  Are these all-in-one kits going to support per-key color differences?  Or are they just broken into mods and alphas?  What if someone wants to do RGB accents on Shift, Control, and Alt, with no accents on Escape or Enter?

Gradients and non-standard accents are not currently supported without some creativity or compromises - you're correct again here. This one does bum me out personally, but again it's the tradeoff that was decided upon.

The one workaround here is that designers would be able to create "rolling" gradients where there are as many different sets offered as there are colors in the gradient. Keys would then be mixed and matched to create each iteration and nothing goes to waste. Certainly not ideal, but might be a suitable compromise for some.

This just seems like DCX is poised to compete with Domikey and JTK rather than SP or GMK.  It's not going to be a great option for designers who are looking for the ability to work with the finer details of a set.  I'm just surprised that Drop would invest so much into something that will have to be a second-string option for designers.

I think this remains to be seen. I mean, what you've stated as far as designers not being interested if they need to work the finer details is true, but how much will that impact the viability of DCX? I'm not so convinced that it's a big problem. We do support custom novelties and other customizations, just not quite as far-reaching as SP or GMK. It then becomes a tradeoff decision for the designer - we all know that none of the existing profiles and manufacturers are without flaws either.

Moreover, because this design isn't modular, it means that kitting errors / eccentricities are enshrined forever.  Like your spacebar kit: you have just one each of 2u and 1.75u.  With 2u bars, it's preferable (though not necessary) to have two of them; this is similar to the reason for having 2x1u bars (as that kit does).  But with 1.75u bars?  There aren't many boards using those, and the majority that do also use a pair of them.  1.75u bars should always come in pairs or not at all.

I think you're right that this is the biggest risk here. Do note that there is some modularity and room for tweaking things (we are already working on including some additional keys that have been requested) but yes, it does have some fairly strict limitations in the grand scheme of things.

Likewise, the Mac kit appears to have been copied from a GMK GB that made an error (or just chose to include something highly nonstandard): there is no such thing as R3 1.75u Command in a standard Mac layout.  Command isn't a swap for Control.  There may be some user layouts like that, but historically Apple keyboards that don't use Caps Lock in that slot will put Control there instead.  By locking into that kit, you've de facto standardized a highly niche choice within an already niche kit.

Hmm, interesting point - thanks for the callout. I'm curious what the broader Mac community would prefer here. I personally use Command as if it were Control on a Windows PC (though I haven't remapped it as such, but functionally it is the same key in my mind). I wonder if the majority of Mac users might view it similarly, even if it's not officially considered as such. I don't even know what I would do with the Control key in the Caps Lock position, I use that key so rarely.

Legends look pretty great although that shif t bothers me a little

This has been discussed elsewhere, but I think it's worth addressing here as well. This kerning artifact is a result of the manufacturing method used to produce these keycaps. Rather than an insert molding method used for some other keycaps, DCX is manufactured with true doubleshot manufacturing techniques, which have slightly different "gap" tolerances. This means that we can't squeeze material through a gap between legend features which is any narrower than what you see on the keys as they currently exist. The only way to address this would be to increase the kerning on the other legends/keys to match, which arguably would make the set look even worse overall.

Offline Akele

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 22 June 2022, 18:14:10 »
Can I ask if there any plans to make UK-ISO support, or any other international ISO support, available for DCX as child kits?

Offline Adelscott

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 26 June 2022, 08:40:55 »
Can I ask if there any plans to make UK-ISO support, or any other international ISO support, available for DCX as child kits?

Yes please, ISO-FR in stock in WoB, BoW, beige ...
Please think about ISO users, add a split left shift to your "alice style" keyboards

Offline Akele

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 26 June 2022, 13:32:11 »
Can I ask if there any plans to make UK-ISO support, or any other international ISO support, available for DCX as child kits?

Yes please, ISO-FR in stock in WoB, BoW, beige ...

The new Dolch set looks great: I'd love to see international ISO support on it too: https://drop.com/buy/drop-dcx-dolch-keycap-set

Offline cekagekh

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 26 June 2022, 18:02:49 »
kerning

Are ligatures technically impossible to do?

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 27 June 2022, 10:01:45 »
kerning

Are ligatures technically impossible to do?

Ultimately a legend is just a vector file of what to carve, so that question is going to be highly dependent on the specifics of the ligature in question, as well as whatever cutting / filling limitations that come with the DCS machining.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 27 June 2022, 12:01:26 »
kerning

Are ligatures technically impossible to do?

Ultimately a legend is just a vector file of what to carve, so that question is going to be highly dependent on the specifics of the ligature in question, as well as whatever cutting / filling limitations that come with the DCX machining.

^^ the answer to questions like this is nearly always "it depends"
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Offline cekagekh

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 27 June 2022, 13:44:17 »
kerning

Are ligatures technically impossible to do?

Ultimately a legend is just a vector file of what to carve, so that question is going to be highly dependent on the specifics of the ligature in question, as well as whatever cutting / filling limitations that come with the DCS machining.

It's more of an alternative way to say "How about trying to fix the wonky f-t kerning with a ft ligature", instead of really asking the question in general.

Offline vindaon

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 27 June 2022, 20:42:22 »
If it can't be fixed, how about just going with icon mods?

Offline Hoffman@Drop

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - Open for orders
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 30 June 2022, 09:40:10 »
kerning

Are ligatures technically impossible to do?

Ultimately a legend is just a vector file of what to carve, so that question is going to be highly dependent on the specifics of the ligature in question, as well as whatever cutting / filling limitations that come with the DCS machining.

It's more of an alternative way to say "How about trying to fix the wonky f-t kerning with a ft ligature", instead of really asking the question in general.

I'm tracking :) It's a good idea, and I'm not sure if it's been explored in the past. Certainly worth bringing up though. :thumb:

Can I ask if there any plans to make UK-ISO support, or any other international ISO support, available for DCX as child kits?

The answer to this is not totally satisfying - international ISO kits are "on the roadmap", but their specific timing is not nailed down at this time. As you can imagine, there are quite a few sub-kits that are targeted for future development, and it will take time to work through them all. It is on our radar though.

If it can't be fixed, how about just going with icon mods?

A good idea regardless. I know some people prefer icon mods over text anyway, would surely be worth pursuing this at some point.

Offline KBKlon

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Re: [GB] DCX WoB, BoW, and Genesis - WoB, BoW Shipped
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 30 June 2022, 12:35:19 »
I would definitely be interested in icon mods (PBTFans does this amazing well). It gives an overall cleaner look IMO.