[IC] Any Doctor Who fans here?

[pixel5]

I'm thinking about custom designing a single keycap with some sort of Doctor Who related design. I'm debating whether it should be a normal ABS cap or Blue Polycarbonate. If this sounds like something you'd be interested in, post here which material you'd rather see.

Thanks!

EDIT: Here are some designs I've come up with. Let me know which ones you like and which ones you definitely would not buy.

FIRST DESIGN HAS BEEN CHOSEN (I think!)

[HoffmanMyster]

YES.  I would probably buy whatever is designed.  I have very little preference.

[pixel5]

YES.  I would probably buy whatever is designed.  I have very little preference.

I guess BOTH isn't out of the question, but I'm not sure at the moment. Depends on how much I can get them made for. I will likely be opening a store of some sort just to make things easier, as I might be designing more keycaps in the future if this is successful (all original designs, don't worry vendors I won't be copying you).

[SpAmRaY]

I think there was a thread with some Dr. Who caps somewhere.....you might want to look it up.

[pixel5]

I think there was a thread with some Dr. Who caps somewhere.....you might want to look it up.

This one? That was mine.

Or maybe you are talking about the one that was interested in making an entire set based on the Gallifreyan/Elvish/etc alphabets. I have no intentions of making an entire alphabet set. haha.

[SpAmRaY]

I was thinking someone had some keys made...maybe I was thinking of something else.

[pixel5]

I was thinking someone had some keys made...maybe I was thinking of something else.

Someone 3D printed a Cyberman keycap a long time ago for themselves [they used it for DELETE, lol] but I don't think they ever sold it.

[SpAmRaY]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43848.msg909130#msg909130

^^ This is the thread I was thinking about

[singaporean123]

Only watched the last season.

Clara was so cute!

[pixel5]

Bump with concept pics.

[rayuki]

Hell yes, no way to get a tardis on a cap?

[pixel5]

Hell yes, no way to get a tardis on a cap?

The TARDIS is very rectangular. I don't know that it would look very good on a square cap. If you are referring to a 3D model, I can't do that.

[bazemk1979]

I like the 2nd polycarb keycap, don't mind collecting them, already have all 7 versions from keypop

EDIT: if you descide to run GB for the polycarb caps, have at least 5-6 versions of it and different colors, blue,yellow,orange,red,green,purple,pink etc etc etc, make it worthwile to pay the shipping by ordering more caps

[pixel5]

I like the 2nd polycarb keycap, don't mind collecting them, already have all 7 versions from keypop

EDIT: if you descide to run GB for the polycarb caps, have at least 5-6 versions of it and different colors, blue,yellow,orange,red,green,purple,pink etc etc etc, make it worthwile to pay the shipping by ordering more caps

Keypop made some? Do have pics? I don't want to copy anything someone has already done.

[HoffmanMyster]

"Time" written in Gallifreyan Polycarbonate

Show Image

I would buy this.  I would buy this very enthusiastically.  :D

Anything in Gallifreyan looks awesome and would make for cool caps.  Really anything that works as a logo related to Doctor Who would be great.  I really like that design above.

And if you could offer different colors like bazemk mentioned I'd probably buy one of each.   ;D

Oh, and I suspect that when he said "all 7 versions" he probably meant all 7 polycarb keys that they offer, with no relation to Doctor Who or this idea.  :)

[pixel5]

I just heard back from the vendor about pricing. Unless I sold 250 of these it wouldn't be worth it.

[HoffmanMyster]

I just heard back from the vendor about pricing. Unless I sold 250 of these it wouldn't be worth it.

  I'm almost 100% positive these would be popular enough to sell at least decent amounts.  Have you checked with other vendors to see if they want to pick up the design and handle purchasing and selling?

[stoic-lemon]

It's a great idea. I'm sure they will be very popular.

[pixel5]

I just heard back from the vendor about pricing. Unless I sold 250 of these it wouldn't be worth it.

  I'm almost 100% positive these would be popular enough to sell at least decent amounts.  Have you checked with other vendors to see if they want to pick up the design and handle purchasing and selling?

If it gets enough interest, I might submit the design. We'll see what happens.

[bazemk1979]

go to keypop store and check the polycarb caps they have, so far you don't have any copy of them.

[thadood]

SHUTUP AND TAKE MY MONEY.

[SidusNare]

I'm in! both designs look good, dont know what it would do to cost, but these would look good on old-school looking spherical double-shots from SP.

[pixel5]

6 interested so far...moving at a pace of 2 per day.

Lol, gonna take us a while to get to 200+ interested.

[singaporean123]

1 and 2.

I would love them.

Brits have like the best actors ever.

[FuriousGeorge]

Subscribing. I'm in for any of them.

[McWilloughby]

1 or 3 definitely... Polycarbonate preferably.

[HoffmanMyster]

6 interested so far...moving at a pace of 2 per day.

Lol, gonna take us a while to get to 200+ interested.

Keep in mind that some of us might buy more than 1.

If the price is reasonable I could easily buy 5-10 of these.

[pixel5]

6 interested so far...moving at a pace of 2 per day.

Lol, gonna take us a while to get to 200+ interested.

Keep in mind that some of us might buy more than 1.

If the price is reasonable I could easily buy 5-10 of these.

SP has a $45 new legend fee...that's $45 per design.

[mashby]

I really like the designs and would buy them all. Smart move not to choose official logos.

[HoffmanMyster]

6 interested so far...moving at a pace of 2 per day.

Lol, gonna take us a while to get to 200+ interested.

Keep in mind that some of us might buy more than 1.

If the price is reasonable I could easily buy 5-10 of these.

SP has a $45 new legend fee...that's $45 per design.

I meant I'd buy 5-10 of one design.    I don't think it'd be too hard to sell later once people see them.

Also, I'll take a risk by mention reddit here.  In my experience redditors love Doctor Who.  Maybe mention it over there?

[SpAmRaY]

police box FTW!

[pixel5]

Instead of doing it like a typical group buy, i'm thinking about setting up a tiny storefront and selling for a flat rate (this is given that there is enough interest). The novelty key sellers sell their singles for $3 a key + shipping. Does that sound fair to you guys?

The reasoning behind this is that I'd like to use this as a spring board for more novelty designs. I love graphic design and keyboards, so why not combine them? This will be an opportunity for the community to request custom caps.

Also, if anyone has experience doing group buys, what's the best way to ship these? Bubble mailers? Where can I buy them in bulk for cheap? Any advice is helpful! (but please, have some experience on this before commenting)

[pixel5]

I have made a post on /r/MechanicalKeyboards. We'll see where that takes us. I think, based on my calculations, if I can get close to 70 interested, I can make it happen. I might operate at a loss for a while, but I think in the end it will be worth it.

[pixel5]

Color vote for the ABS key, click on this picture and tell me which one you think matches best. I'm thinking 'BFK' or 'BO'

[mashby]

I'd vote for BDH or BFK. Krogenar did a high-res scan of the ABS ring. The blues master scan is below.


Master Scan - Blues by cpkey, on Flickr

[pixel5]

Dude you rock. Here is the ABS cap using the BFU blue (or at least as closely as I can match it).

[pixel5]

Two more designs

[HoffmanMyster]

You can design whatever you want related to Doctor Who and I'm pretty sure I'll buy it.    Also, I like your idea with setting up a storefront of sorts.  Best of luck with that!  Will you be doing that in the near future?  How can I be sure to stay updated?  Planning to post here with more info?  So many questions!

[CalmB4tehPwn]

A couple of these would go very well with the Circular Gallifreyan full keycap set I've designed, and will be announcing officially when WASD gets back in stock.

It'll turn out very nice, and will be doing a giveaway for a WASD keyboard with the gallifreyan keycap set once it's ready for debut. Would look really good with a blue escape key /w TARDIS

[pixel5]

You can design whatever you want related to Doctor Who and I'm pretty sure I'll buy it.    Also, I like your idea with setting up a storefront of sorts.  Best of luck with that!  Will you be doing that in the near future?  How can I be sure to stay updated?  Planning to post here with more info?  So many questions!

You can stay updated by checking around here for now. I'll get a site up soon for more centralized updating. Reddit has a lot of interest in my designs, so I think this is going to happen (most likely the white Police Box shape on Blue cap, if not both white and blue for starters).

A couple of these would go very well with the Circular Gallifreyan full keycap set I've designed, and will be announcing officially when WASD gets back in stock.

It'll turn out very nice, and will be doing a giveaway for a WASD keyboard with the gallifreyan keycap set once it's ready for debut. Would look really good with a blue escape key /w TARDIS

It's a 'Police Box'. lol. I am excited to see how your set turns out.

[pixel5]

Alright,  my site is up. It will change a lot once I start selling.

http://pixel5.us

[HoffmanMyster]

Alright,  my site is up. It will change a lot once I start selling.

http://pixel5.us

Nicely done.  I look forward to what comes of this. 

[SpAmRaY]

Alright,  my site is up. It will change a lot once I start selling.

http://pixel5.us

Does this make you a vendor now?

[pixel5]

Alright,  my site is up. It will change a lot once I start selling.

http://pixel5.us

Does this make you a vendor now?

Well I might wait to call myself that until I've sold at least one keycap 

But it looks like I'm heading down that path.

[SpAmRaY]

Alright,  my site is up. It will change a lot once I start selling.

http://pixel5.us

Does this make you a vendor now?

Well I might wait to call myself that until I've sold at least one keycap 

But it looks like I'm heading down that path.

Well I was just saying because there is a vendor TOS and you get a star etc.

[pixel5]

Link to TOS?

[SpAmRaY]

Link to TOS?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43873.0

[pixel5]

Link to TOS?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43873.0

Thanks. Sounds easy enough to abide by.

[mashby]

You also get your own sub-forum.

[Sneaky Potato]

YES.  I would probably buy whatever is designed.  I have very little preference.

The mark of a true addict.

[Elrick]

Why is everyone so obsessed with only just the TARDIS.

What about the Doctor's Sonic Screwdriver, K9, Jelly-babies (Tom Baker's favorite - The one and only REAL Doctor Who) and the evil one's such as Cybermen, Daleks, Davros, etc....

Try to stick with the Classical rendition of the Doctor because it meant so much to all people in their millions whilst growing up, in nearly every country in the world today.

[SpAmRaY]

Why is everyone so obsessed with only just the TARDIS.

What about the Doctor's Sonic Screwdriver, K9, Jelly-babies (Tom Baker's favorite - The one and only REAL Doctor Who) and the evil one's such as Cybermen, Daleks, Davros, etc....

Some things might be difficult to do because of copyrights?

[Elrick]

Why is everyone so obsessed with only just the TARDIS.

What about the Doctor's Sonic Screwdriver, K9, Jelly-babies (Tom Baker's favorite - The one and only REAL Doctor Who) and the evil one's such as Cybermen, Daleks, Davros, etc....

Some things might be difficult to do because of copyrights?

Not if you get IMSTO to make them in China with PBT.  Just a thought.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Why would country of origin make a difference? They're being sold in countries with copyright, so copyright applies.
And the BBC is not big on giving out permissions for things like this.

[acantha]

a tardis key would be epic. i'd buy that in a hot second.

[acantha]

i have no idea where really to post this, but this thread reminded me of something i saw last night, so i dug it up:

http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/post/57542049866/on-set-of-tardis-clara-era-2-2-source

the doctor apparently goes in for spherical keycaps!

[mashby]

i have no idea where really to post this, but this thread reminded me of something i saw last night, so i dug it up:

http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/post/57542049866/on-set-of-tardis-clara-era-2-2-source

the doctor apparently goes in for spherical keycaps!

That set on a Tipro would be awesome!

[Elrick]

i have no idea where really to post this, but this thread reminded me of something i saw last night, so i dug it up:

http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/post/57542049866/on-set-of-tardis-clara-era-2-2-source

the doctor apparently goes in for spherical keycaps!

I always new that Time-lord had a terrific sense of style  .

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Thought you guys might be interested.

Circular Gallifreyan keyboad:

http://calmb4tehpwn.tumblr.com/post/58319629106/circular-gallifreyan-keyboard-this-keyboard-will

[HoffmanMyster]

Thought you guys might be interested.

Circular Gallifreyan keyboad:

http://calmb4tehpwn.tumblr.com/post/58319629106/circular-gallifreyan-keyboard-this-keyboard-will

Whaaaaaaaaaat   

[Elrick]

Thought you guys might be interested.

Circular Gallifreyan keyboad:

http://calmb4tehpwn.tumblr.com/post/58319629106/circular-gallifreyan-keyboard-this-keyboard-will

Whaaaaaaaaaat   

Damn, why doesn't he speak Gallifreyan when the show was running for more than 40 years now?

I suppose that subtitles would piss off most British Fans immediately  .

[pix3l_fodder]

Two more designs

Show Image

Looks good but PLEASE fix the windows angle with the angle at the bottom of the phone box, no one has wonky windows!

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Thought you guys might be interested.

Circular Gallifreyan keyboad:

http://calmb4tehpwn.tumblr.com/post/58319629106/circular-gallifreyan-keyboard-this-keyboard-will

Whaaaaaaaaaat   

Damn, why doesn't he speak Gallifreyan when the show was running for more than 40 years now?

I suppose that subtitles would piss off most British Fans immediately  .

Well, the idea is that he's been speaking gallifreyan the entire time, and just like we, the listener, and all the companions can understand any other aliens, the TARDIS has been translating for us. It's not that he's not speaking gallifreyan, it's just that we're not hearing it.

[Elrick]

Well, the idea is that he's been speaking gallifreyan the entire time, and just like we, the listener, and all the companions can understand any other aliens, the TARDIS has been translating for us. It's not that he's not speaking gallifreyan, it's just that we're not hearing it.

I was waiting for someone to mention the Great TARDIS as the translator.  Simply because they couldn't be stuffed making up a complete alien language from scratch.

It's an English made series hence the principal language has to be English.  Even though the TARDIS sometimes gets removed away from the Doctor's immediate vicinity yet everything is normal with his speech pattern, go figure  .

[HoffmanMyster]

Even though the TARDIS sometimes gets removed away from the Doctor's immediate vicinity yet everything is normal with his speech pattern, go figure  .

Yep.  And sometimes it gets trapped in different times entirely, if I'm remembering correctly.

[Elrick]

Yep.  And sometimes it gets trapped in different times entirely, if I'm remembering correctly.

YES exactly.  They didn't hire any proper enthusiasts to write any decent Doctor Who scripts, hence the overwhelming amount of deficient knowledge and carelessness when shooting the episodes over the years.

They keep on ignoring the basic facts behind the original storyline based on this series.

Instead they NOW concentrate on the Doctor's partners (the girlies) whilst ignoring the basic principles governing his conduct and activities.

[HoffmanMyster]

Yep.  And sometimes it gets trapped in different times entirely, if I'm remembering correctly.

YES exactly.  They didn't hire any proper enthusiasts to write any decent Doctor Who scripts, hence the overwhelming amount of deficient knowledge and carelessness when shooting the episodes over the years.

They keep on ignoring the basic facts behind the original storyline based on this series.

Instead they NOW concentrate on the Doctor's partners (the girlies) whilst ignoring the basic principles governing his conduct and principals.

While I agree with your points about it having inaccuracies (and the companion comment), I certainly don't think it makes it a bad show or not worth watching. 

Anyway, back on topic: any updates here? 

[rayuki]

So they are only selling the gallifreyan set as a keyboard and not a key set? That sucks

[Elrick]

So they are only selling the gallifreyan set as a keyboard and not a key set? That sucks

Maybe they are only catering to the HARD-CORE Doctor fans.  Trust me there are plenty that will make some of us here look like casual interlopers, with no interest in the Timelord's true agenda  .

[YoungMichael88]

I started watching this show a little while ago. The new one that is. I enjoy it. But I get upset when the doctor takes a new body and the companion changes. I've only just reached the end of the second season. The season 2 doctor is good but I thoroughly enjoyed the season one doctor/companion. And now the first companion is gone too. I know that's the nature of the show and they will change a few more times still but it's toying with my emotions!! I need my mummy. Mummy? Are you my Mummy?

[acidtrip69]

I started watching this show a little while ago. The new one that is. I enjoy it. But I get upset when the doctor takes a new body and the companion changes. I've only just reached the end of the second season. The season 2 doctor is good but I thoroughly enjoyed the season one doctor/companion. And now the first companion is gone too. I know that's the nature of the show and they will change a few more times still but it's toying with my emotions!! I need my mummy. Mummy? Are you my Mummy?

Show Image

Rose is one of my fav companions of all time. I also like the first doc but the secound doc grew on me slowly and then the third doc i didn't like at first but grew on me very fast alot faster then the secuond doc did.

[YoungMichael88]

I look foreword to watching more.

[anoxy]

Confession: I've never even watched Doctor Who.

But I am so down to buy one of those tardis caps.

[HoffmanMyster]

I started watching this show a little while ago. The new one that is. I enjoy it. But I get upset when the doctor takes a new body and the companion changes. I've only just reached the end of the second season. The season 2 doctor is good but I thoroughly enjoyed the season one doctor/companion. And now the first companion is gone too. I know that's the nature of the show and they will change a few more times still but it's toying with my emotions!! I need my mummy. Mummy? Are you my Mummy?

Show Image

Ahhhh, so happy you're watching it!  One of my favourite shows, and I'm not even caught up.  Trust me, I felt the same way about the change in doctors and companions, but you grow to love the new one just as much and it's still amazing.  Keep watching!

[Elrick]

Trust me, I felt the same way about the change in doctors and companions, but you grow to love the new one just as much and it's still amazing.  Keep watching!

Yeah his so-called 'companions' keep getting younger as time moves on.  I wonder if he'll regress into a 'Rolf Harris' like character only interested in entertaining pre-teen girls in his Tardis  .

When he becomes like that, then the series should end finally........

[YoungMichael88]

Trust me, I felt the same way about the change in doctors and companions, but you grow to love the new one just as much and it's still amazing.  Keep watching!

Yeah his so-called 'companions' keep getting younger as time moves on.  I wonder if he'll regress into a 'Rolf Harris' like character only interested in entertaining pre-teen girls in his Tardis  .

When he becomes like that, then the series CAN FINALLY BEGIN!........

FTFY

[YoungMichael88]

[rayuki]

So they are only selling the gallifreyan set as a keyboard and not a key set? That sucks

Maybe they are only catering to the HARD-CORE Doctor fans.  Trust me there are plenty that will make some of us here look like casual interlopers, with no interest in the Timelord's true agenda  .

I'm a pretty hardcore fan, just don't want to buy a whole keyboard just to get some keys.

[Elrick]

I'm a pretty hardcore fan, just don't want to buy a whole keyboard just to get some keys.

Are you sure rayuki - are you in fact really that devoted, addicted and so passionate about Doctor Who?

I think you may be about mid-way when it comes to adoring the good Doctor because there will always be others that will tattoo their bodies with him and even mould their whole lives around these stories.  From what they wear everyday to where they live in fashioned out homes to fit any set of the series.

I forgot about the name of one English fan (who else) that wanted to be one of the doctors and lived that way for several years back about a decade ago.  That guy was a full on - fanatical fan.

So if you rayuki want to beat all the others in showing your true commitment to Doctor Who, then we need pics as proof  .

[Novus]

I bet you guys never noticed the TARDIS in my avatar.
ALSO MALCOLM TUCKER IS THE DOCTOR WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[YoungMichael88]

I bet you guys never noticed the TARDIS in my avatar.

Well what do ya know! A Tardis!!

[Elrick]

I bet you guys never noticed the TARDIS in my avatar.

I also noticed the statement you put there in your avatar, as something to do with "the Wolf Among us"  any relation to the 2005's mentioned phrase from the series "the Bad Wolf"?

[YoungMichael88]

Drive away today in the all new 2014 Ford Tardis. Zero percent financing until the year 7 million.

[Novus]

If ford made TARDIS models they would break so much and drive the Time Lords extinct ... oh wait

[YoungMichael88]

If ford made TARDIS models they would break so much and drive the Time Lords extinct ... oh wait

Although there would always be that one out there that you see from time to time.

[Novus]

If ford made TARDIS models they would break so much and drive the Time Lords extinct ... oh wait

Although there would always be that one out there that you see from time to time.

anddd it's blueeeee

hrm

[YoungMichael88]

Tim Doyle

[YoungMichael88]

[Novus]

Thought you guys might be interested.

Circular Gallifreyan keyboad:

http://calmb4tehpwn.tumblr.com/post/58319629106/circular-gallifreyan-keyboard-this-keyboard-will

Why did Madame de pompadour have an english accent?

[Novus]

Maybe it's a false grave.

 

Maybe it's a false grave.

Yeah, maybe.

Maybe it's a secret
entrance to the tomb.

Maybe it's a secret
entrance to the tomb

Yes! Of course. Makes sense. They'd never bury
my wife out here.

Your what?!

Aaaah!

[YoungMichael88]

Just watched the episode with Sally Sparrow and the stone statues. What a great one! Don't blink. Blink and you're dead. Don't turn your back Don't look away. And Don't Blink.

[HoffmanMyster]

Show Image

Tim Doyle

Please don't tell me I can buy these as prints.

[YoungMichael88]

Show Image

Tim Doyle

Please don't tell me I can buy these as prints.

http://postercabaret.com/gallery/tim-doyle/unreal-estate-2-magic-box-by-tim-doyle.html

http://postercabaret.com/gallery/tim-doyle/the-fields-of-trenzalore-by-tim-doyle.html

[HoffmanMyster]

Show Image

Tim Doyle

Please don't tell me I can buy these as prints.

http://postercabaret.com/gallery/tim-doyle/unreal-estate-2-magic-box-by-tim-doyle.html

http://postercabaret.com/gallery/tim-doyle/the-fields-of-trenzalore-by-tim-doyle.html

I said don't tell me!

[YoungMichael88]

Show Image

Tim Doyle

Please don't tell me I can buy these as prints.

http://postercabaret.com/gallery/tim-doyle/unreal-estate-2-magic-box-by-tim-doyle.html

http://postercabaret.com/gallery/tim-doyle/the-fields-of-trenzalore-by-tim-doyle.html

I said don't tell me!

Consider yourself untold

[YoungMichael88]

I don't know what to think about Donna. I kind of want her to leave.

[mashby]

I don't know what to think about Donna. I kind of want her to leave.

I thought the same thing, but I love Dr. Donna. She evolves into a really good character.

[YoungMichael88]

I'm moving into a new season. Lost another great Doctor. Sad night....

[HoffmanMyster]

I'm moving into a new season. Lost another great Doctor. Sad night....

Are you on to Matt Smith now?  Have you left Mr. Tenant behind?     They've both got their charm to them, but I'll always miss Tenant.

[YoungMichael88]

I'm moving into a new season. Lost another great Doctor. Sad night....

Are you on to Matt Smith now?  Have you left Mr. Tenant behind?     They've both got their charm to them, but I'll always miss Tenant.

Yup! And my goodness this new companion Amy Pond! She can ride my Tardis any time.

[HoffmanMyster]

I'm moving into a new season. Lost another great Doctor. Sad night....

Are you on to Matt Smith now?  Have you left Mr. Tenant behind?     They've both got their charm to them, but I'll always miss Tenant.

Yup! And my goodness this new companion Amy Pond! She can ride my Tardis any time.

    She's a cutie.

[YoungMichael88]

Are there any doctor/companions you would have liked to see together?

[Elrick]

Are there any doctor/companions you would have liked to see together?

Is this a PG rated response you are looking for or a XXX response here  ?

[aviphysics]

What happened to making keys? A Tardis escape key would be pretty cool, but what I want most is a Cyberman delete key.

[taylordcraig]

I loved Donna in the end. She annoyed me a bit. I think they ruined Clara's potential and Amy came off a little too promiscuous.

I'm fairly certain this buy would garner the attention of many people not active on GH. Also, the IC sub forum is not the most active.
Count me in for at least 2 of whatever cap you produce.

[Elrick]

I loved Donna in the end. She annoyed me a bit. I think they ruined Clara's potential and Amy came off a little too promiscuous.

Most annoy me because of their unceasing questions and dopey looks upon their faces.  At least in a proper-porno you won't need to concentrate looking at their faces one bit  .

Interested in seeing where this key-set will go, will it be a another few months before a colour-way is thought up?

[Novus]

Are there any doctor/companions you would have liked to see together?

Is this a PG rated response you are looking for or a XXX response here  ?

David Tennant and Matt Smith with a slice of Malcom Tucker.

[rayuki]

Wow forgot about this any progress?

[geo462rge]

this would be a great idea, but with the fallout business that happened i feel like certain companies would have a hard time being convinced to run this.  regardless, if this goes through i would be down for a few.