HHKB vs FC660C -Battle of the ultimate Topre

[Duckyreddy]

Hello people 

What do you guys think of the HHKB Pro 2 and the FC660C?

How do these two stack up against each other in terms of build and the Topre experience?
Are there any reasons why I should choose one over the other?

Please and thank you~

[yuppie]

660C's switches feel better, it's heavier and more "sturdy". I think they different in plate vs. PCB mount or just plastic plate vs. steel/alum plate.

HHKB is a lot nicer to look at, but I can't live without arrow keys. Either way, lube your topre switches!

[Duckyreddy]

660C's switches feel better, it's heavier and more "sturdy". I think they different in plate vs. PCB mount or just plastic plate vs. steel/alum plate.

HHKB is a lot nicer to look at, but I can't live without arrow keys. Either way, lube your topre switches!

I can't live without my arrows either!
I am considering to lube my switches and I like both the stock caps for them, I've heard good things about both of them and really just wanted to ask people who have tried both!
Cheers for the input 

[stoic-lemon]

Always interested to hear thoughts from those who have tried both.

[Lazylewis]

I have both and they're completely different in feel and layout that they don't have much in common. I like both of them for different reasons.

[kmba]

These are my primary two boards. I switch back and forth every few weeks. 660c is more solid feeling, heavier and snappier domes, and more thocky sounding. Hhkb is lighter domes, softer landing, and still good sounding. I will admit I had to lube and silence my hhkb because I couldn't stand the upstroke noise, whereas it's not that bad on the 660c. Moot issue though since both are getting rf purple sliders soon. Layout on the hhkb is superior, even without arrows (you get used to arrow layer). Had to get a controller for my 660c to swap backspace.  Overall though I prefer my 660c due to the solid feel and and the heavier/snappier domes.

[shadowku]

I have both.

My HHKB is hypersphere'd and my 660 is stock.

As others here have said, the 660 is snappier and feels more solid, likely because the 660 has a metal plate while the HHKB is all plastic inside and out.
There's essentially 3 embodiments of Topre: HHKB, Leopold (FC660C, FC980C), and RealForce (55g, 45g uniform, variable). And there's people who change the domes on various boards.
I think the choice of which keyboard to get really depends on how you're going to use them. If you use arrows a lot, you may want to get the 660 because always having to access arrows via a modifier can be troublesome sometimes. If you're fine without them, then I think its a matter of preference.

Personally, I favor my HHKB because the default layout and dip switches on the 660 annoy me. I prefer the back space being on top of the Return key, and I've swapped the Caps lock and the left Control with the dip switches, but I keep accidentally hitting the new Capslock now. I want absolutely no Capslock on my board. Rather than getting a Hasu, I'm probably going to sell it.

Other than the layout, I still prefer my HHKB, because when Hypersphere'd, or if you get the Type-S, it's likely the quietest keyboard. It's even quieter than the Apple chiclet keyboards all my coworkers use. I prefer the softness and the hallow thocky sound of the HHKB more as well.

[Duckyreddy]

These are my primary two boards. I switch back and forth every few weeks. 660c is more solid feeling, heavier and snappier domes, and more thocky sounding. Hhkb is lighter domes, softer landing, and still good sounding. I will admit I had to lube and silence my hhkb because I couldn't stand the upstroke noise, whereas it's not that bad on the 660c. Moot issue though since both are getting rf purple sliders soon. Layout on the hhkb is superior, even without arrows (you get used to arrow layer). Had to get a controller for my 660c to swap backspace.  Overall though I prefer my 660c due to the solid feel and and the heavier/snappier domes.

Thank you, How are the stock caps may I ask?

I have both.

My HHKB is hypersphere'd and my 660 is stock.

As others here have said, the 660 is snappier and feels more solid, likely because the 660 has a metal plate while the HHKB is all plastic inside and out.
There's essentially 3 embodiments of Topre: HHKB, Leopold (FC660C, FC980C), and RealForce (55g, 45g uniform, variable). And there's people who change the domes on various boards.
I think the choice of which keyboard to get really depends on how you're going to use them. If you use arrows a lot, you may want to get the 660 because always having to access arrows via a modifier can be troublesome sometimes. If you're fine without them, then I think its a matter of preference.

Personally, I favor my HHKB because the default layout and dip switches on the 660 annoy me. I prefer the back space being on top of the Return key, and I've swapped the Caps lock and the left Control with the dip switches, but I keep accidentally hitting the new Capslock now. I want absolutely no Capslock on my board. Rather than getting a Hasu, I'm probably going to sell it.

Other than the layout, I still prefer my HHKB, because when Hypersphere'd, or if you get the Type-S, it's likely the quietest keyboard. It's even quieter than the Apple chiclet keyboards all my coworkers use. I prefer the softness and the hallow thocky sound of the HHKB more as well.

Oh sweet! Everyone I've talked to that owns and loves their HHKB has said that they absolutely adore it but they would like to see a metal backplate for a change because the entire thing is plastic fantastic? Correct?

The layout of the HHKB looks quite nice to me and I don't see a problem with me switching to it, I'm not a big "caps" fan my self either and I like the simple look of the blank HHKB's, I can see myself leaning towards the HHKB side.

Thank you

[wishful_cynic]

I bought my first topre board earlier this year and chose the 660c due to: (1) the superior build quality; (2) the dedicated arrow cluster and delete key, which I use every day in the office for writing; and (3) my experience with other Leopold boards, which has always been excellent.

I like the way the HHKB looks, I think it's a great design, and it's an iconic board in this community.

People love both of these boards.  If build quality and dedicated arrow keys are more important to you, go with the 660c.  If looks and history are more important to you, go with the HHKB.

[shadowku]

Thank you, How are the stock caps may I ask?

The stock keycaps on both keyboards are decently thick PBT, except for the space bar, so they're definitely more than good enough if you're not a keycaps fanatic.
The keycaps on my HHKB have been dyed purple and I bought a blue PBT space bar from MassDrop, so it looks like a Super Nintendo (see sig).

I've considered swapping the sliders to either the NovaTouch sliders or JTK sliders so I can use GMK caps, but it doesn't feel worth it because you'd be sacrificing some of the Topre feel.

Oh sweet! Everyone I've talked to that owns and loves their HHKB has said that they absolutely adore it but they would like to see a metal backplate for a change because the entire thing is plastic fantastic? Correct?

I've heard people say that a few times, but personally I do not wish for a metal plate. A part of the HHKB's feel is the plastic frame which gives it its more hallowed thock sound. It's a nice characteristic that I enjoy. The keyboard overall is flimsier than the 660, and there is a bit of creaking when you twist the keyboard, but it still feels like a very high quality board.

Another thing is that I carry my HHKB to and from the office everyday, so keeping it light is a plus. I have the official PFU HHKB carry-case so it works quite well for me. Another thing people complain about is that the feet on the HHKB  are not very effective. This is true - there's only 2 rubber feet at the bottom, with two plastic dome feet at the top and so the keyboard slides easily. But, in an effort to make it quieter, I've since bought large desk mats for my desk at work and at home which prevents the sliding anyway, so it doesn't really matter to me.

[Duckyreddy]

I bought my first topre board earlier this year and chose the 660c due to: (1) the superior build quality; (2) the dedicated arrow cluster and delete key, which I use every day in the office for writing; and (3) my experience with other Leopold boards, which has always been excellent.

I like the way the HHKB looks, I think it's a great design, and it's an iconic board in this community.

People love both of these boards.  If build quality and dedicated arrow keys are more important to you, go with the 660c.  If looks and history are more important to you, go with the HHKB.

That is beautifully summed up, I appreciate it~
Thank you, sir 

[Duckyreddy]

Thank you, How are the stock caps may I ask?

The stock keycaps on both keyboards are decently thick PBT, except for the space bar, so they're definitely more than good enough if you're not a keycaps fanatic.
The keycaps on my HHKB have been dyed purple and I bought a blue PBT space bar from MassDrop, so it looks like a Super Nintendo (see sig).

I've considered swapping the sliders to either the NovaTouch sliders or JTK sliders so I can use GMK caps, but it doesn't feel worth it because you'd be sacrificing some of the Topre feel.

Oh sweet! Everyone I've talked to that owns and loves their HHKB has said that they absolutely adore it but they would like to see a metal backplate for a change because the entire thing is plastic fantastic? Correct?

I've heard people say that a few times, but personally I do not wish for a metal plate. A part of the HHKB's feel is the plastic frame which gives it its more hallowed thock sound. It's a nice characteristic that I enjoy. The keyboard overall is flimsier than the 660, and there is a bit of creaking when you twist the keyboard, but it still feels like a very high quality board.

Another thing is that I carry my HHKB to and from the office everyday, so keeping it light is a plus. I have the official PFU HHKB carry-case so it works quite well for me. Another thing people complain about is that the feet on the HHKB  are not very effective. This is true - there's only 2 rubber feet at the bottom, with two plastic dome feet at the top and so the keyboard slides easily. But, in an effort to make it quieter, I've since bought large desk mats for my desk at work and at home which prevents the sliding anyway, so it doesn't really matter to me.

Wowow, That's a pretty HHKB!
Yea I guess some appreciate the light weight of it and the lower thock (which I love) they both look like solid options.
The rubber feet thing is a common complaint, I think, but I have a large mat for my desk too so that shouldn't be too concerning. 

Thank you~

[kmba]

The stock caps are very good aside from the spacebar, and every other cap just doesn't feel right on topre.. aside from hi pro topre caps.  mx sliders & mx caps aren't as nice and you sacrifice feel for aesthetics.  But, you absolutely need to swap the spacebars for PBT.

With some ingenuity, you can get some interesting looking layouts too.  Here's mine. 

[jerue]

The FC660c can adapt to more working environments, but the HHKB is a better board overall. It is more satisfying to use and the keycaps (though thin) are good. HHKB doesn't really need anything either, it's great out of the box. I do not feel that is the case with FC660c. It feels a bit more dull, about 3g heavier than 45g Topre, and it uses two left shifts.

If you want to get into modding, the best FC660c I have used is with the sliders from HHKB Type-S. Better feeling than Realforce with Type-S sliders, so best plate-mount Topre board is FC660c with HHKB Type-S sliders.

But the ultimate Topre keyboard has to be HHKB with Realforce purple sliders, and lubed.

[strigif0rm3s]

Fc660c hands down.
Source: I'm a topre fanatic

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Duckyreddy]

The stock caps are very good aside from the spacebar, and every other cap just doesn't feel right on topre.. aside from hi pro topre caps.  mx sliders & mx caps aren't as nice and you sacrifice feel for aesthetics.  But, you absolutely need to swap the spacebars for PBT.

With some ingenuity, you can get some interesting looking layouts too.  Here's mine. 

Show Image

Show Image

Those are beautiiifullll, I'll definitely go with a PBT spacebar if I do get one
Thank youuu 

[Duckyreddy]

The FC660c can adapt to more working environments, but the HHKB is a better board overall. It is more satisfying to use and the keycaps (though thin) are good. HHKB doesn't really need anything either, it's great out of the box. I do not feel that is the case with FC660c. It feels a bit more dull, about 3g heavier than 45g Topre, and it uses two left shifts.

If you want to get into modding, the best FC660c I have used is with the sliders from HHKB Type-S. Better feeling than Realforce with Type-S sliders, so best plate-mount Topre board is FC660c with HHKB Type-S sliders.

But the ultimate Topre keyboard has to be HHKB with Realforce purple sliders, and lubed.

So the sliders impact the feel quite a lot, What's different between the Type-S and the stock HHKB sliders?
Thanks~

[jerue]

The FC660c can adapt to more working environments, but the HHKB is a better board overall. It is more satisfying to use and the keycaps (though thin) are good. HHKB doesn't really need anything either, it's great out of the box. I do not feel that is the case with FC660c. It feels a bit more dull, about 3g heavier than 45g Topre, and it uses two left shifts.

If you want to get into modding, the best FC660c I have used is with the sliders from HHKB Type-S. Better feeling than Realforce with Type-S sliders, so best plate-mount Topre board is FC660c with HHKB Type-S sliders.

But the ultimate Topre keyboard has to be HHKB with Realforce purple sliders, and lubed.

So the sliders impact the feel quite a lot, What's different between the Type-S and the stock HHKB sliders?
Thanks~

this thread has some good documentation. the main thing with the Type-S sliders is they are longer than either purple sliders or stock sliders. This extra length along with the Type-S design, I find, works better in a plate-mount board like the FC660c than top-case mount like HHKB.

[directheatedtriode]

I think they are both exceptional, the one I enjoy typing on more is the HHKB2 for the louder thock (IME there is no Topre keyboard that sounds and feels like the HHKB) and more organic feel and the HHKB is the one I more often rotate into my listening room where I type up many paragraphs on my classical listening notes. YMMV as sound is of high importance to me! I sold an SKCM blue keyboard in an aftermarket case because it just didn't sound like the old fashioned stock cases they come in whereas others would have preferred the superior layout of my aftermarket.

[Polymer]

Oh sweet! Everyone I've talked to that owns and loves their HHKB has said that they absolutely adore it but they would like to see a metal backplate for a change because the entire thing is plastic fantastic? Correct?

I haven't seen people say this...in the closest thing to this when someone created an aluminum case for the HHKB, it basically ruined feel and sound.  You also can't put a plate into the HHKB without gutting the whole thing..part of the switch is actually built into the case itself.  I think people have thought about what it might feel like with a plate but this isn't like MX switches where overwhelmingly people seem to prefer plates...To me it would complete gut the feel of the HHKB which has great thock and a much more organic feel compared to other Topres...
 
The reason the 660c has a stiffer feel isn't because a RF has a plate and it is the least thocky and lightest of the three at the same weight (45g). 

[Hordak]

Oh, I'm facing the same "dilemma". The Topre keycaps are very nice. To be supreme, they could be thicker is my feeling - but that's just a guess. They are very good and nothing to worry about.

Reposting this from another thread:

I recently got a Realforce 45g after 3 years of training on HHKBs. First impression, the keys felt real mushy. After a while - an hour or so typing on keybr.com - I unexpectedly got to preferring the RF's 45gs. Strange that the switches grew that much on me. The "mushy feeling" made way to the pure pleasure of a pronounced, contained, precise key stroke. Oh.. the echoing feedback of a metal plate... pure bliss. That made me curious though: I have a 55g incoming. Hard to pre-judge, but I suspect the weight will be too much for me.

But - and it's a BIG but - the HHKB layout is still much superior. In comparison, the Realforce's TKL arrangement feels totally unergonomic. The arrow keys and backspace are just too damn far away, as is the mouse. That's why now, I also got a FC660C incoming - yes, you heard that right, stupid ****ing empty wallet! I SO hope it will be the perfect blend of the two, but, I know the keeb gods won't allow that to happen. Endgame is like plugging in a USB cable - no matter how confident your are, it's always the wrong direction.

[shadowku]

Oh, I'm facing the same "dilemma". The Topre keycaps are very nice. To be supreme, they could be thicker is my feeling - but that's just a guess. They are very good and nothing to worry about.

Reposting this from another thread:

I recently got a Realforce 45g after 3 years of training on HHKBs. First impression, the keys felt real mushy. After a while - an hour or so typing on keybr.com - I unexpectedly got to preferring the RF's 45gs. Strange that the switches grew that much on me. The "mushy feeling" made way to the pure pleasure of a pronounced, contained, precise key stroke. Oh.. the echoing feedback of a metal plate... pure bliss. That made me curious though: I have a 55g incoming. Hard to pre-judge, but I suspect the weight will be too much for me.

But - and it's a BIG but - the HHKB layout is still much superior. In comparison, the Realforce's TKL arrangement feels totally unergonomic. The arrow keys and backspace are just too damn far away, as is the mouse. That's why now, I also got a FC660C incoming - yes, you heard that right, stupid ****ing empty wallet! I SO hope it will be the perfect blend of the two, but, I know the keeb gods won't allow that to happen. Endgame is like plugging in a USB cable - no matter how confident your are, it's always the wrong direction.

I think you're going to have to rotate between the 3 Topre boards you have. You'll never feel "satisfied".
Also, new RFs coming out next year.

[Polymer]

I recently got a Realforce 45g after 3 years of training on HHKBs. First impression, the keys felt real mushy. After a while - an hour or so typing on keybr.com - I unexpectedly got to preferring the RF's 45gs. Strange that the switches grew that much on me. The "mushy feeling" made way to the pure pleasure of a pronounced, contained, precise key stroke. Oh.. the echoing feedback of a metal plate...

It does feel a bit mushier..there is less thock to it and it seems like they're lighter than on the HHKB.

The less thock and less general noise as well which is why might feel it is more precise....

For me I like the HHKB because of the layout but I also enjoy the sound...I also enjoy RF as well...It is also why silenced RFs are fine but I prefer a normal HHKB vs. type S...

[Duckyreddy]

Oh sweet! Everyone I've talked to that owns and loves their HHKB has said that they absolutely adore it but they would like to see a metal backplate for a change because the entire thing is plastic fantastic? Correct?

I haven't seen people say this...in the closest thing to this when someone created an aluminum case for the HHKB, it basically ruined feel and sound.  You also can't put a plate into the HHKB without gutting the whole thing..part of the switch is actually built into the case itself.  I think people have thought about what it might feel like with a plate but this isn't like MX switches where overwhelmingly people seem to prefer plates...To me it would complete gut the feel of the HHKB which has great thock and a much more organic feel compared to other Topres...
 
The reason the 660c has a stiffer feel isn't because a RF has a plate and it is the least thocky and lightest of the three at the same weight (45g).

It is weird, The low pitch Thock comes from the plastic backplate so I'm not sure why they'll want to get rid of that. 

[directheatedtriode]

Oh, I'm facing the same "dilemma". The Topre keycaps are very nice. To be supreme, they could be thicker is my feeling - but that's just a guess. They are very good and nothing to worry about.

Reposting this from another thread:

I recently got a Realforce 45g after 3 years of training on HHKBs. First impression, the keys felt real mushy. After a while - an hour or so typing on keybr.com - I unexpectedly got to preferring the RF's 45gs. Strange that the switches grew that much on me. The "mushy feeling" made way to the pure pleasure of a pronounced, contained, precise key stroke. Oh.. the echoing feedback of a metal plate... pure bliss. That made me curious though: I have a 55g incoming. Hard to pre-judge, but I suspect the weight will be too much for me.

But - and it's a BIG but - the HHKB layout is still much superior. In comparison, the Realforce's TKL arrangement feels totally unergonomic. The arrow keys and backspace are just too damn far away, as is the mouse. That's why now, I also got a FC660C incoming - yes, you heard that right, stupid ****ing empty wallet! I SO hope it will be the perfect blend of the two, but, I know the keeb gods won't allow that to happen. Endgame is like plugging in a USB cable - no matter how confident your are, it's always the wrong direction.

I have wanted to try the 55g Realforce but worried about the weighting as well. Please do share what you think of the weight compared to HHKB when you get it.

[thebabyparrot]

In my opinion, as a person who owns multiple Topre keyboard and has tried almost very variation in existence;

The best out of the box Topre keyboard is the FC660C.  Here's why:

1. The switches on the FC660c is more tactile than the stock HHKB AND Realforce 45G. 

2. The keyboard has a heft and build quality that the HHKB lacks.  It's one of the best built keyboards you can buy through a retail chain.

3. The keycaps on the white model are luscious and are one of a kind in the Topre world. I know ysers who have actually bought the White ANSI FC660C just to transplant the keycaps alone.

4. The arrow cluster is available by default.  Depending on who you are, between the two mini Topre boards, the arrow cluster is a make it or break it sort of ordeal.  While some people are willing to accomodate to the shortcuts of the arrow cluster, for me- it's absolutely necessary. 



This is just my opinion, and I'm sure others will disagree but the TL;DR is:

The FC660C is more tactile, has a better build quality, and an arguably better layout thanks to the arrow cluster.

[Hordak]

I think you're going to have to rotate between the 3 Topre boards you have. You'll never feel "satisfied".
Also, new RFs coming out next year.

No way I'm keeping three. That's just too lavish. I'll probably keep one HHKB and one of RF or 660c .
Yeah, I've seen the new RF pictures. Not sure why you'd want that over a RF1... I think its kinda ugly tbh.

I have wanted to try the 55g Realforce but worried about the weighting as well. Please do share what you think of the weight compared to HHKB when you get it.

Sure buddy. I just got the RF 55g. Will begin testing today or tomorrow.

[shadowku]

No way I'm keeping three. That's just too lavish. I'll probably keep one HHKB and one of RF or 660c .
Yeah, I've seen the new RF pictures. Not sure why you'd want that over a RF1... I think its kinda ugly tbh.

I'm curious about the features. If there's detachable cable then maybe there's a case for the TKL.
I'm still secretly hoping for a TKL version of the RGB to either gut for sliders or to just use to sport keycaps.


On another note, last night while doing some work with the 660, I realize that I use  "~" and "`" more than I realized, and combined with the position of the backspace, I really can't use a small keyboard without a split backspace.
I have a NightFox on the way, and while I was really looking forward to the Halo True switches, it's still the best 65% keyboard I can easily get. I'm most likely going to keep a HHKB (or two) and the NightFox as my main drivers.

[kmba]

I have an rf87 55g coming soon..  I will be swapping between three    and my two alps boards.. and my zanda board.  and my kailh box boards.  hrm.  and my model F.  oh jeez I have a problem.

[Hordak]

I'm curious about the features. If there's detachable cable then maybe there's a case for the TKL.
I'm still secretly hoping for a TKL version of the RGB to either gut for sliders or to just use to sport keycaps.

Oh I though they were already set on non-detachable cable. At least from the pictures...
What is so special about the RGB sliders? for a non-RGB keyboard?

On another note, last night while doing some work with the 660, I realize that I use  "~" and "`" more than I realized, and combined with the position of the backspace, I really can't use a small keyboard without a split backspace.
I have a NightFox on the way, and while I was really looking forward to the Halo True switches, it's still the best 65% keyboard I can easily get. I'm most likely going to keep a HHKB (or two) and the NightFox as my main drivers.

Agreed. I miss the split blackspace from my HHKB on the RF too. The layout is simply superior.

I have an rf87 55g coming soon..  I will be swapping between three    and my two alps boards.. and my zanda board.  and my kailh box boards.  hrm.  and my model F.  oh jeez I have a problem.

The first step in solving a problem is denial

[directheatedtriode]

Any links to the new Realforce? The only one I know of is the RGB full size.

[Hordak]

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=91649.0

[wishful_cynic]

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=91649.0

That looks awful.  I don't like the existing model, I think the fat back bezel looks out of place with the rest of the board being pretty skinny around the edge, but this is a step backwards in design.

[millifoo]

3. The keycaps on the white model are luscious and are one of a kind in the Topre world. I know ysers who have actually bought the White ANSI FC660C just to transplant the keycaps alone.

I'm curious - are the keycaps on the white model of different build quality and/or feel than the ones on the dark gray model?  I have the dark gray, love the keycaps, but have not had a chance to try the white model.

[wishful_cynic]

3. The keycaps on the white model are luscious and are one of a kind in the Topre world. I know ysers who have actually bought the White ANSI FC660C just to transplant the keycaps alone.

I'm curious - are the keycaps on the white model of different build quality and/or feel than the ones on the dark gray model?  I have the dark gray, love the keycaps, but have not had a chance to try the white model.

They're the same caps other than color, PBT with dyesub legends.  The texture is excellent.

[millifoo]

3. The keycaps on the white model are luscious and are one of a kind in the Topre world. I know ysers who have actually bought the White ANSI FC660C just to transplant the keycaps alone.

I'm curious - are the keycaps on the white model of different build quality and/or feel than the ones on the dark gray model?  I have the dark gray, love the keycaps, but have not had a chance to try the white model.

They're the same caps other than color, PBT with dyesub legends.  The texture is excellent.

Cool... means I don't have to hunt down a white model to compare :-).   Agreed, the feel is superb - best I have.

[shadowku]

What is so special about the RGB sliders? for a non-RGB keyboard?

The RGB RF uses MX compatible sliders. I hear the RGB doesn't feel as good as traditional RFs as a result, but it still seems like one of the better ways to get some MX keycaps on a Topre board.

[_PixelNinja]

I'm still secretly hoping for a TKL version of the RGB to either gut for sliders or to just use to sport keycaps.

You mean this ?



It's coming out next year.

I hear the RGB doesn't feel as good as traditional RFs as a result, but it still seems like one of the better ways to get some MX keycaps on a Topre board.

It not only feels sub par; it sounds god awful too. Modding the keyboard with Silence-X rings and lubing the stabilizers helps a lot, but for the price that should not be requirement on the part of the end user IMO.

[wishful_cynic]

What is so special about the RGB sliders? for a non-RGB keyboard?

The RGB RF uses MX compatible sliders. I hear the RGB doesn't feel as good as traditional RFs as a result, but it still seems like one of the better ways to get some MX keycaps on a Topre board.

I've tried JTK and Novatouch sliders and both detracted from the feel substantially.  I'm sticking with topre caps.

[Duckyreddy]

Right now I am down to two choices, HHKB Pro 2 and Type-S 

[kmba]

Type s. I think hhkbs really need silencing and aftermarket silencing rings just aren't as good. Unless the price difference really bites you, you could do pro 2 and kbdfans silencing rings.

[Duckyreddy]

Type s. I think hhkbs really need silencing and aftermarket silencing rings just aren't as good. Unless the price difference really bites you, you could do pro 2 and kbdfans silencing rings.

I am leaning towards the type-S, I will most likely keep it stock if I do go for one, most I'll do is cut some dampening foam for the case and the rubber feet mod.
If anyone here has experience with the Type-S and Dentalbanded/modded Pro 2, I would appreciate it if someone shares their thoughts! Thank you~

[kmba]

Dental bands are way too thick.  Hyperspheres are a bit too thick and also reduce tactility. Kdbfans rings are the thinnest.

[Duckyreddy]

Dental bands are way too thick.  Hyperspheres are a bit too thick and also reduce tactility. Kdbfans rings are the thinnest.

I've heard "hypersphere" quite a lot, the price for a set of 63 is around $80 shipped to my house, for that cost would I be better off getting a Type-S?
What do you use on your Topres? 

Thanks for the quick explanation too 

[jerue]

Dental bands are way too thick.  Hyperspheres are a bit too thick and also reduce tactility. Kdbfans rings are the thinnest.

I've heard "hypersphere" quite a lot, the price for a set of 63 is around $80 shipped to my house, for that cost would I be better off getting a Type-S?
What do you use on your Topres? 

Thanks for the quick explanation too 

If you're just going to silence a regular HHKB anyways, get a stock HHKB BT (or a Pro 2 if you want to save $), then take the savings and hunt for some Realforce purple sliders.  Otherwise just get Type-S, break it in for a month or so, then use lube on the sliders/housing if you want. It will feel almost as good with much less effort.

[Duckyreddy]

Dental bands are way too thick.  Hyperspheres are a bit too thick and also reduce tactility. Kdbfans rings are the thinnest.

I've heard "hypersphere" quite a lot, the price for a set of 63 is around $80 shipped to my house, for that cost would I be better off getting a Type-S?
What do you use on your Topres? 

Thanks for the quick explanation too 

If you're just going to silence a regular HHKB anyways, get a stock HHKB BT (or a Pro 2 if you want to save $), then take the savings and hunt for some Realforce purple sliders.  Otherwise just get Type-S, break it in for a month or so, then use lube on the sliders/housing if you want. It will feel almost as good with much less effort.

Wise... Seems like the smartest thing to do, If I do in fact go with a stock Pro 2, I can then use that money for a Hasu controller and even Purple sliders as you mentioned, I've been told to lube purple sliders but I will try stock and make changes as I go along the way.

Or just go type-S hehe, then lube later.

[Hordak]

I have hypersphered my HHKB and didn't like the outcome. You loose too much key travel, makes it feel weird. I also have the kdbfans rings here, but unfortunately did not get around to installing them yet.

Lubing makes the keyboard a bit quieter too and on top feel much smoother. My lubed, hypersphered Pro 2 is quieter than my Type-S.

[Duckyreddy]

If you do get around installing the KBDfans rings, please share with us! 
I don't want to lube straight away, perhaps I could let the board run in for a month or two and decide if I like the feel then decide...
I have no experience in Lubing Topre, What lube have you used? Thin or Thick? I heard really thick lube can ruin the feel by a quite a bit.

Thankss 

[Hordak]

Sure I'll share. It might just take a while till I find motivation to deal with the mess that will be removing the silencing rings of lubed hhkb.

If you're new to HHKB/Topre, you'll be good. I typed on my Type-S for three years before lubing, so that should tell you how good it is stock. And I used it all day at the office. It's just that I got a bit bored of it lately, so I wanted to try something new. I also got Realforce 45/55g

For the lubricant I used Krytox GPL 205, which is rather thick. It does not feel like I lost anything, but I have no comparison to other lubes. One downside is that the lube will slowly drip down onto the domes, so it's a bit messy and will require more care. The best lube is supposed to be a mix that was found my mkawa. You can get it here.

[Duckyreddy]

Sure I'll share. It might just take a while till I find motivation to deal with the mess that will be removing the silencing rings of lubed hhkb.

If you're new to HHKB/Topre, you'll be good. I typed on my Type-S for three years before lubing, so that should tell you how good it is stock. And I used it all day at the office. It's just that I got a bit bored of it lately, so I wanted to try something new. I also got Realforce 45/55g

For the lubricant I used Krytox GPL 205, which is rather thick. It does not feel like I lost anything, but I have no comparison to other lubes. One downside is that the lube will slowly drip down onto the domes, so it's a bit messy and will require more care. The best lube is supposed to be a mix that was found my mkawa. You can get it here.

That's great to know that you find the stock Type-S stock, Thank you for linking the Lube, I will definitely have a look around and when it's time to lube, I definitely will do it! 

[regionfree]

I used to have both, but have since sold the FC660C. My friend did a coin test on the FC660C, and found out that the domes are actually 50g versus HHKB's 45g. No wonder it felt snappier. I'm picking up an FC660C again, as the sound of the silenced sliders against a steel plate has its own unique appeal compared to HHKB's hollow plasticky thock.

[Duckyreddy]

I used to have both, but have since sold the FC660C. My friend did a coin test on the FC660C, and found out that the domes are actually 50g versus HHKB's 45g. No wonder it felt snappier. I'm picking up an FC660C again, as the sound of the silenced sliders against a steel plate has its own unique appeal compared to HHKB's hollow plasticky thock.

That's odd, How come the domes gained that 5g? I thought there were only 30g,45g and 55g domes?
I'm in such an awkward position, I love the HHKB's layout and the good looks but on the other hand, I also love my arrow keys and I would risk sacrificing the hollow thock for a sturdier build...

[kmba]

leopold boards have always been heavier than 45g despite being advertised as 45g.  Why?  who knows.

[moh18one]

FC660C + Purple sliders = 

[dante]

FC660C + Purple sliders = 

Given the amount of love for Silent Topre I find it ridiculous that Leopold doesn't offer a silent FC660C/FC980C option yet.

[moh18one]

FC660C + Purple sliders = 

Given the amount of love for Silent Topre I find it ridiculous that Leopold doesn't offer a silent FC660C/FC980C option yet.

Because Topre doesn't want maybe?

Topre manufactures all the keyboards with their switches and I'm pretty sure that Topre isn't interested about selling less Realforce models.  If you have to blame a company it's clearly not Leopold here...

You can use the HHKB Type S as a counterexample but keep in mind that the layout isn't for everyone and before the latest revision, the factory silenced sliders were shorter than the purple ones (3.8mm vs 4mm).

[regionfree]

That's odd, How come the domes gained that 5g? I thought there were only 30g,45g and 55g domes?
I'm in such an awkward position, I love the HHKB's layout and the good looks but on the other hand, I also love my arrow keys and I would risk sacrificing the hollow thock for a sturdier build...

If it's going to help you decide, one problem I had with the FC660C was that the plate for mine started rusting in one of the corners. I live in a humid tropical country, though. So it might not happen to you.

Silencing the FC with the kbdfans thin rings and lubing it really set the board's sound apart from HHKB. The steel plate and the rings, combined with the snappy domes was so much better for me than the HHKB's. Ultimately, though, it was the HHKB's layout that won me.

[Duckyreddy]

That's odd, How come the domes gained that 5g? I thought there were only 30g,45g and 55g domes?
I'm in such an awkward position, I love the HHKB's layout and the good looks but on the other hand, I also love my arrow keys and I would risk sacrificing the hollow thock for a sturdier build...

If it's going to help you decide, one problem I had with the FC660C was that the plate for mine started rusting in one of the corners. I live in a humid tropical country, though. So it might not happen to you.

Silencing the FC with the kbdfans thin rings and lubing it really set the board's sound apart from HHKB. The steel plate and the rings, combined with the snappy domes was so much better for me than the HHKB's. Ultimately, though, it was the HHKB's layout that won me.

Thank you for mentioning that, I have not ever thought of that problem, I'm leaning towards the HHKB mainly because of its intuitive layout and that signature hollow thock.
I'm also looking into the Hi-Pro Realforce and the 87U 55g, only wishing they came in a 60%!!
I have made a list of all the Topre's that can ship to New Zealand through Amazon:

The 660C is more expensive than the HHKB.... (Note: includes shipping to NZ)

Leopold FC660C: $260-300 USD
HHKB Pro 2: $230 USD
HHKB Type-S: $320 USD
Realforce Uniform 55g: $250 USD
Topre Realforce 104 Hi-pro: $306 USD

Damn shipping.

[_PixelNinja]

Topre manufactures all the keyboards with their switches [...]

Actually — they don't. The HHKB is made by PFU. The FC660C and Type Heaven are outsourced to a third party manufacturer in China (so was the Novatouch). However, core components and QC are done in Japan.

[strigif0rm3s]

Topre manufactures all the keyboards with their switches [...]

Actually — they don't. The HHKB is made by PFU. The FC660C and Type Heaven are outsourced to a third party manufacturer in China (so was the Novatouch). However, core components and QC are done in Japan.

Realforce is the only TRUE topre?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[_PixelNinja]

Realforce is the only TRUE topre?

People get confused about this. You have to view Topre as an engine manufacturer, rather than a car manufacturer.

[strigif0rm3s]

So, CoolermMaster, Leopold, HHKB, Realforce all build the car body and Topre makes/outsources the switches (engines) and performs the QC?

[shadowku]

The relationships around Topre is pretty confusing. It's not like Cherry where they make all the switches and keyboard producers can relatively easily use them in their keyboards.
I don't understand it myself, but I believe only the OG RF is Topre's actual full product, which is their flagship model for their switches I guess.

The result is a huge variation in keyboards with "Topre".
HHKB, RF, Leopolds, and NovaTouch all feel very different to me. Actually, I couldn't even say that the NovaTouch feels like Topre at all. I had to get rid of mine because of how bad it felt. Not sure if it was the switches or the slides though.

[wishful_cynic]

The relationships around Topre is pretty confusing. It's not like Cherry where they make all the switches and keyboard producers can relatively easily use them in their keyboards.
I don't understand it myself, but I believe only the OG RF is Topre's actual full product, which is their flagship model for their switches I guess.

The result is a huge variation in keyboards with "Topre".
HHKB, RF, Leopolds, and NovaTouch all feel very different to me. Actually, I couldn't even say that the NovaTouch feels like Topre at all. I had to get rid of mine because of how bad it felt. Not sure if it was the switches or the slides though.

Topre-to-MX sliders might feel good to some people, but they *don't* feel like topre.  I tried that because the appeal is obvious: topre caps are rare, so solve that problem by making your topre board compatible with MX caps!  But it feels different, and to me, different in a very bad way.  Patience on finding topre caps I like was well worth the wait.  Keeping my board pure topre keeps the feeling sooo nice!

[xtianyves]

The relationships around Topre is pretty confusing. It's not like Cherry where they make all the switches and keyboard producers can relatively easily use them in their keyboards.
I don't understand it myself, but I believe only the OG RF is Topre's actual full product, which is their flagship model for their switches I guess.

The result is a huge variation in keyboards with "Topre".
HHKB, RF, Leopolds, and NovaTouch all feel very different to me. Actually, I couldn't even say that the NovaTouch feels like Topre at all. I had to get rid of mine because of how bad it felt. Not sure if it was the switches or the slides though.

Topre-to-MX sliders might feel good to some people, but they *don't* feel like topre.  I tried that because the appeal is obvious: topre caps are rare, so solve that problem by making your topre board compatible with MX caps!  But it feels different, and to me, different in a very bad way.  Patience on finding topre caps I like was well worth the wait.  Keeping my board pure topre keeps the feeling sooo nice!

When you say they don't "feel" like Topre is that in a bad way?

One of the reasons I haven't jumped into Topre waters is because of the lack of compatible caps. I guess it would be a good way to stop spending money on keyboards though--buying an HHKB would certainly mean I just keep the caps stock with maybe just the modifiers being different caps or something.

Just curious to know how considerably different Topre is with MX sliders and keycaps versus stock. I know until I try it I won't understand but humor me anyway =)

[Hordak]

FC660C + Purple sliders = 

Are the purple slider the ones in the Type-S or Realforce or are they the same?

[yuppie]

FC660C + Purple sliders = 

Are the purple slider the ones in the Type-S or Realforce or are they the same?

Same

[shadowku]

When you say they don't "feel" like Topre is that in a bad way?

One of the reasons I haven't jumped into Topre waters is because of the lack of compatible caps. I guess it would be a good way to stop spending money on keyboards though--buying an HHKB would certainly mean I just keep the caps stock with maybe just the modifiers being different caps or something.

Just curious to know how considerably different Topre is with MX sliders and keycaps versus stock. I know until I try it I won't understand but humor me anyway =)

Yeah, I'd say it's different in a bad way. I've heard of people who say that they don't mind swapped sliders, but I've never heard of anyone who's said that they prefer it.

MX sliders tend to be wobbly. The JTK sliders are a bit more wobbly than the NVT sliders. I haven't yet seen a comparison with the RF RGB sliders, but I'm interested.

After owning my HHKB for a while, I've kinda lost some desire to run custom caps. You could dye HHKB caps to different colors, but the options are definitely limited. The good thing is that the default keycaps are decent enough if you get an aftermarket PBT spacebar.

Like I said, my NovaTouch felt terrible. I was lucky enough to find someone who was willing to trade me a FC660C, which is much better. I think I could have improved the NovaTouch if I had added silencing rings on it (HyperSpheres) but I disliked it too much to want to spend any more money on it.

[strigif0rm3s]

Novatouch is different but I actually love mine. I have an FC660c, 87u 55g, Novatouch and Realforce RGB. All feel different but in a good way. I just rotate them all at work.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[xtianyves]

When you say they don't "feel" like Topre is that in a bad way?

One of the reasons I haven't jumped into Topre waters is because of the lack of compatible caps. I guess it would be a good way to stop spending money on keyboards though--buying an HHKB would certainly mean I just keep the caps stock with maybe just the modifiers being different caps or something.

Just curious to know how considerably different Topre is with MX sliders and keycaps versus stock. I know until I try it I won't understand but humor me anyway =)

Yeah, I'd say it's different in a bad way. I've heard of people who say that they don't mind swapped sliders, but I've never heard of anyone who's said that they prefer it.

MX sliders tend to be wobbly. The JTK sliders are a bit more wobbly than the NVT sliders. I haven't yet seen a comparison with the RF RGB sliders, but I'm interested.

After owning my HHKB for a while, I've kinda lost some desire to run custom caps. You could dye HHKB caps to different colors, but the options are definitely limited. The good thing is that the default keycaps are decent enough if you get an aftermarket PBT spacebar.

Like I said, my NovaTouch felt terrible. I was lucky enough to find someone who was willing to trade me a FC660C, which is much better. I think I could have improved the NovaTouch if I had added silencing rings on it (HyperSpheres) but I disliked it too much to want to spend any more money on it.

I'm wanting an HHKB now for this very reason--no more needing to buy caps. I think I went a little overboard first time around with everything from DSA Granite to Jukebox SA, Dolch, etc. Having an HHKB with blank caps and maybe dyed or some modifiers in different colors would more than make me happy.

I wouldn't want a keyboard feeling wobbly if the whole point is to enjoy the feel of Topre over MX style switches. Probably better to leave it stock in the long run right?

Now I just need to find somewhere I can buy an HHKB and not wait 60+ days for it to arrive here in Canada =(.

[strigif0rm3s]

When you say they don't "feel" like Topre is that in a bad way?

One of the reasons I haven't jumped into Topre waters is because of the lack of compatible caps. I guess it would be a good way to stop spending money on keyboards though--buying an HHKB would certainly mean I just keep the caps stock with maybe just the modifiers being different caps or something.

Just curious to know how considerably different Topre is with MX sliders and keycaps versus stock. I know until I try it I won't understand but humor me anyway =)

Yeah, I'd say it's different in a bad way. I've heard of people who say that they don't mind swapped sliders, but I've never heard of anyone who's said that they prefer it.

MX sliders tend to be wobbly. The JTK sliders are a bit more wobbly than the NVT sliders. I haven't yet seen a comparison with the RF RGB sliders, but I'm interested.

After owning my HHKB for a while, I've kinda lost some desire to run custom caps. You could dye HHKB caps to different colors, but the options are definitely limited. The good thing is that the default keycaps are decent enough if you get an aftermarket PBT spacebar.

Like I said, my NovaTouch felt terrible. I was lucky enough to find someone who was willing to trade me a FC660C, which is much better. I think I could have improved the NovaTouch if I had added silencing rings on it (HyperSpheres) but I disliked it too much to want to spend any more money on it.

I'm wanting an HHKB now for this very reason--no more needing to buy caps. I think I went a little overboard first time around with everything from DSA Granite to Jukebox SA, Dolch, etc. Having an HHKB with blank caps and maybe dyed or some modifiers in different colors would more than make me happy.

I wouldn't want a keyboard feeling wobbly if the whole point is to enjoy the feel of Topre over MX style switches. Probably better to leave it stock in the long run right?

Now I just need to find somewhere I can buy an HHKB and not wait 60+ days for it to arrive here in Canada =(.

Reddit.com/r/mechmarket    there are keyboards here for days. Happy hunting.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[xtianyves]

I know thanks. I'm there every day looking for Canadian ones =)

[strigif0rm3s]

I know thanks. I'm there every day looking for Canadian ones =)

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Prothrin]

I just wish they had more uniform options. There are especially so few with uniform 30g, for those that prefer lighter switches.

[shadowku]

I know thanks. I'm there every day looking for Canadian ones =)

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

If only you were in Toronto, haha.
I'm considering selling my HHKB with the painted caps (looks like an SNES).
I'm no longer using VIM which is why I'm considering selling. I may pickup another one later on if it'll fit me.

[Duckyreddy]

That's odd, How come the domes gained that 5g? I thought there were only 30g,45g and 55g domes?
I'm in such an awkward position, I love the HHKB's layout and the good looks but on the other hand, I also love my arrow keys and I would risk sacrificing the hollow thock for a sturdier build...

If it's going to help you decide, one problem I had with the FC660C was that the plate for mine started rusting in one of the corners. I live in a humid tropical country, though. So it might not happen to you.

Silencing the FC with the kbdfans thin rings and lubing it really set the board's sound apart from HHKB. The steel plate and the rings, combined with the snappy domes was so much better for me than the HHKB's. Ultimately, though, it was the HHKB's layout that won me.

Hey man, do you have any more information on the rust of the 660c's backplate?
thanks so much