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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: AKIMbO on Thu, 25 April 2013, 07:53:33

Title: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 25 April 2013, 07:53:33
TOUR IS OVER YO!

This is the official IBM Model AT F Tour.

Only members who have 250+ posts and I deem trustworthy are allowed to participate (why...because it's my board and ain't no one gonna run off with it!  :p).  This board uses an AT cable (so I will be including an AT to PS/2 adapter and a PS/2 to USB converter on this tour).

Terms of the tour: 
-You get one week with the board...then you must mail it (with tracking) to the next individual on the list.
-You must post a review of the board.
-Tour is CONUS only.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/20swza1.jpg)

The board will have a stock space bar (i.e. Über heavy)

Those who have expressed interest (i.e. possible tour participants):
-tipo33 CONFIRMED PARTICIPANT
-CPT BadAss CONFIRMED PARTICIPANT
-mashby CONFIRMED PARTICIPANT 
-The_Beast CONFIRMED PARTICIPANT
-hashbaz CONFIRMED PARTICIPANT
-hellocodes CONFIRMED PARTICIPANT
-OrangeJewce CONFIRMED PARTICIPANT
-prdlm2009 CONFIRMED PARTICIPANT AT F AT prdlm2009' PLACE!
-CommunistWitchDr CONFIRMED PARTICIPANT

For those who have expressed interest, please post a reply in this thread confirming your desire to be on the tour. 

The tour has begun!  Post in this thread if you want to be added (Yes, we are still accepting participants)!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 25 April 2013, 07:55:00
Please sign me up Akimbro ^__^
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Halverson on Thu, 25 April 2013, 07:58:29
I dunno if anyone else will get to try it after CPT...he'll probably drool all over it :p
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 25 April 2013, 07:59:19
Akimbo, please also include a guide to how to disassemble the board, as Halverson is correct :P
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 25 April 2013, 07:59:19
I dunno if anyone else will get to try it after CPT...he'll probably drool all over it :p

This just in....CPTBadAss is last on the list of tour participants.....j/k :P
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: mashby on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:02:30
Confirming my desire.  :p
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:10:04
You guys do know how heavy the stock spacebar is right?  It's really really heavy.  Not that I want to mod it, because I'm lazy and it involves opening up the keyboard...but I want everyone to enjoy the board. 
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:13:36
No but I don't want you to alter the board at all so I know exactly how it would be if I bought one.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:16:36
Confirmed!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: mashby on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:17:10
No but I don't want you to alter the board at all so I know exactly how it would be if I bought one.

^^^ this ^^^
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Halverson on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:19:00
You guys do know how heavy the stock spacebar is right?  It's really really heavy.  Not that I want to mod it, because I'm lazy and it involves opening up the keyboard...but I want everyone to enjoy the board. 

I can confirm with Akmibro on that. Too bad you didn't have both types to show the difference!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:20:19
AKIMbO, you are to be commended on this endeavor, you are a brave man.

All you slackers out there need to be respectful and appreciative of this offer.

I have the F AT, so I will not need to be included.

The stock spacebar is not really all that bad. I tend to give the spacebar a pretty good whack with my right thumb, and I have never felt the need to mod it. However, when I open it up, next time, to do the Enter/Backspace ANSI mod, I will probably bend the stabilizer just a bit ...
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Dubsgalore on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:20:34
Stock Spacebar please! i wanna see how heavy 'Über heavy' is

thanks!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:24:32
AKIMbO, you are to be commended on this endeavor, you are a brave man.

All you slackers out there need to be respectful and appreciative of this offer.

I have the F AT, so I will not need to be included.

The stock spacebar is not really all that bad. I tend to give the spacebar a pretty good whack with my right thumb, and I have never felt the need to mod it. However, when I open it up, next time, to do the Enter/Backspace ANSI mod, I will probably bend the stabilizer just a bit ...


I'm just trying to spread the good word of capacitive buckling spring.  If the board comes back in pieces so be it!     

Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:28:07
I will personally spearhead the effort to repay you for the board if it comes back damaged.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:29:55
And if it gets damaged beyond repair at the next-to-last person, and they can't return it to you or send pics, I'm sure they will repay you for the board. :D
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:30:42
And I'll be sure to wear a HazMat suit so no drool gets on the board :P
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 25 April 2013, 08:34:00
I will personally spearhead the effort to repay you for the board if it comes back damaged.
And if it gets damaged beyond repair at the next-to-last person, and they can't return it to you or send pics, I'm sure they will repay you for the board. :D

Thanks guys....but it's not necessary.  I'm doing this for the community.  If it gets damaged, it gets damaged.  No big deal.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: dante on Thu, 25 April 2013, 11:04:38
Confirmed.

Give it to daddy...

Oh yeah.. UBER HEAVY HANDS OF JUSTICE CHUCK NORRIS STYLE
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:15:33
I know I'm first, but can you put me mid list so that I get it in the summer when I can fully enjoy this beast and not during finals week :D


Confirmed btw ^___^
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:16:49
I know I'm first, but can you put me mid list so that I get it in the summer when I can fully enjoy this beast and not during finals week :D


Confirmed btw ^___^

Done.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:17:37
I know I'm first, but can you put me mid list so that I get it in the summer when I can fully enjoy this beast and not during finals week :D


Confirmed btw ^___^

Done.

Thanks!


Also, I don't mind the stock, heavier spacebar
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:20:10
^Yeah...it looks like I'm just going to do the tour with the stock spacebar.  Seems like the majority of the participants want it that way. :)
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: codyeatworld on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:25:02
I wouldn't mind trying this out, I don't know if I want a buckling spring. But I think I would really enjoy it. And the layout is pretty cool.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: gameaholic on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:29:47
I'd like to try it.  I've never tried a model F.  I've been wondering how it compares to my two Model M's.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Gupgup on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:39:12
Sign me up!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:40:01
Confirm my interest please.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:42:54
I wouldn't mind trying this out, I don't know if I want a buckling spring. But I think I would really enjoy it. And the layout is pretty cool.

Added.

I'd like to try it.  I've never tried a model F.  I've been wondering how it compares to my two Model M's.

Sorry broski.  You don't have enough posts and no heatware feedback.  I hope you understand.  No hard feelings.

Sign me up!

Added.

Confirm my interest please.

Confirmed.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:57:47
I don't approve of you calling it a Model AT F. I prefer Model F AT. Whenever I read it, I like to think, "That thing is FAT (phat)!"
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: gameaholic on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:58:28
I'd like to try it.  I've never tried a model F.  I've been wondering how it compares to my two Model M's.

Sorry broski.  You don't have enough posts and no heatware feedback.  I hope you understand.  No hard feelings.


No worries.  I'll work on those two.  Not sure what heatware feedback is.  I'm guessing that's feed back for transactions I've done in here through groupbuys and classifieds?
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Gupgup on Thu, 25 April 2013, 12:59:59
I'd like to try it.  I've never tried a model F.  I've been wondering how it compares to my two Model M's.

Sorry broski.  You don't have enough posts and no heatware feedback.  I hope you understand.  No hard feelings.


No worries.  I'll work on those two.  Not sure what heatware feedback is.  I'm guessing that's feed back for transactions I've done in here through groupbuys and classifieds?

Yep!

Akimbo, I also don't care which spacebar, choose the better one for me :D


Gupgup
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 25 April 2013, 13:01:28
gameaholic bought something from me and paid quickly. If he starts a heatware account, he should PM so I can leave him positive feedback.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: mr_a500 on Thu, 25 April 2013, 13:17:56
I don't approve of you calling it a Model AT F. I prefer Model F AT. Whenever I read it, I like to think, "That thing is FAT (phat)!"

I don't approve of either. It's not a "Model AT F". It's the AT version of the "Model F", so: "AT Model F".

(although I like fat keyboards, I don't like fat models)
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 25 April 2013, 13:19:49
I like em F AT   ;)
Title: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 26 April 2013, 15:28:16
You can mark me off the list, AKIMbO. I just bought one on eBay in exc condition for $200 plus shipping. :D
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: SmallFry on Fri, 26 April 2013, 15:30:16
I like em AT F   ;)
FTFY. :D
Title: Re: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Fri, 26 April 2013, 15:32:50
You can mark me off the list, AKIMbO. I just bought one on eBay in exc condition for $200 plus shipping. :D

Will do jd....congrats on the new purchase.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tipo33 on Sat, 27 April 2013, 08:28:49
I would love to try out a Model F.  I'm a big fan of the model M.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: dante on Sat, 27 April 2013, 08:47:08
I would love to try out a Model F.  I'm a big fan of the model M.

This would be convenient as I can hand it off to Ski or vice versa (both from IL.)
Title: Re: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 27 April 2013, 10:40:55
I would love to try out a Model F.  I'm a big fan of the model M.

I'll add you to the list.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: 1391406 on Sat, 27 April 2013, 13:01:52
If that's your only Model AT F, I'm not sure how you can stand to part with it for months on end.
Title: Re: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 27 April 2013, 13:29:25
If that's your only Model AT F, I'm not sure how you can stand to part with it for months on end.

It isn't.  The one going out on tour has a few nicks and dings. I have a pristine AT F that is staying at home in my personal collection.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tipo33 on Sat, 27 April 2013, 19:14:17
I would love to try out a Model F.  I'm a big fan of the model M.

This would be convenient as I can hand it off to Ski or vice versa (both from IL.)
If I could pick it up from you, that would be great.  My mail service is terrible.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 27 April 2013, 19:24:51
I would love to try out a Model F.  I'm a big fan of the model M.

This would be convenient as I can hand it off to Ski or vice versa (both from IL.)
If I could pick it up from you, that would be great.  My mail service is terrible.

Cool beans....I added you right after dante.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tipo33 on Sat, 27 April 2013, 19:34:30
Big thank you AKIMbO!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Mon, 29 April 2013, 18:58:01
Tour begins tomorrow b*tches!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: mashby on Mon, 29 April 2013, 22:01:25
Tour begins tomorrow b*tches!

(http://i.imgur.com/2NGTo.gif)
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Dubsgalore on Mon, 29 April 2013, 22:16:42
Thanks for Including me!

:) i appreciate it
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: OrangeJewce on Tue, 30 April 2013, 10:52:07
Add me kimbro!

Cheers,
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Tue, 30 April 2013, 11:35:56
Ok guys....the tour has commenced.  The AT Model F keyboard is now in the hands of USPS and on its way to tipo33!

I spent the morning cleaning the keyboard as best I could.  The picture in the OP is updated with everything that is included on the tour (the now clean AT Model F, AT to PS2 adapter, and PS2 to USB converter).

Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tipo33 on Tue, 30 April 2013, 16:56:58
I am patiently awaiting the board,  will do a close comparison of the F and the M.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: simingma on Wed, 01 May 2013, 14:05:42
I dont' have enough posts, but I remember you told me before much you like capacitive buckling spring, followed by Monterey Blues and 45g Topres.

How are you getting on with 55g Topres? I just bought one its still in the post.

There's a XT version on ebay now, good condition $70. Just don't know how I can use that daily with OSX without the command key. The AT version doesn't do any better I suppose?
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Dubsgalore on Wed, 01 May 2013, 14:11:01
Akimbo i regret asking to be moved down! haha :D

happy this is happening now
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 01 May 2013, 14:18:54
Is the "confirmed" list in the OP the shipping order?
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 01 May 2013, 14:30:23
I dont' have enough posts, but I remember you told me before much you like capacitive buckling spring, followed by Monterey Blues and 45g Topres.

How are you getting on with 55g Topres? I just bought one its still in the post.

There's a XT version on ebay now, good condition $70. Just don't know how I can use that daily with OSX without the command key. The AT version doesn't do any better I suppose?

If you are using a Teensy you can "hard" remap a key to be what you need. I use F10 for "Windows", since it is in the right place anyway, more or less, with no problem.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Wed, 01 May 2013, 16:54:52
I dont' have enough posts, but I remember you told me before much you like capacitive buckling spring, followed by Monterey Blues and 45g Topres.

How are you getting on with 55g Topres? I just bought one its still in the post.

There's a XT version on ebay now, good condition $70. Just don't know how I can use that daily with OSX without the command key. The AT version doesn't do any better I suppose?

I love my 55g topre board...it's become my daily driver.

Is the "confirmed" list in the OP the shipping order?

Yes...but if you need to be moved up or down in the list let me know.  I'll accommodate whoever needs accommodations.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tipo33 on Sat, 04 May 2013, 17:58:56
I just got around to hooking up and typing on the Model F and for first impressions - WOW.   I love this keyboard, My only real issue so far is how heavy the space bar is, but I know there is a fix for this.   As some of you know, I am a bit of a model M nut, so my final review will contain picks and comparisons to the 1390120 (silver tag), the 1391401 (gray label), my bolt modded blue label and of course my SSK.  But just to check in, I got the KB and I love it!!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: noisyturtle on Sat, 04 May 2013, 18:12:27
What's the shipping on that beast? Guessing around $20-25?
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tipo33 on Sat, 04 May 2013, 18:18:03
AKIMbO shipped it to me for US$15 with tracking.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 04 May 2013, 18:29:26
What's the shipping on that beast? Guessing around $20-25?

USPS Priority flat rate with tracking is $15.60.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tipo33 on Thu, 09 May 2013, 13:19:32
Ok my review of the F AT:
A some of you may know I am a bit of a Buckling Spring enthusiast.  I found the actuation a lot lighter than all the M's I own.  I originaly was going to do a comparison of differences but I decided that the differences in M's are more about how the Kb's are treated rather than age, but back to the F.   I had mixed feelings about the layout.  I am a big fan of the control key next to the A key, as a linux user.  It took me a little while to aclimate to the ALT being right under the left shift but after a while it made sense.  I also approve of the F keys to the left of the main cluster.  The space bar, WOW.  That is a space bar!   It's wide, solid and has a good stabilizer action.  If you press the very end, the entire thing will dip.  They just don't put 9.5x space bars on Kb's anymore.  I did find it a liitle heavy, but I have read there is a fix for this.  I found hitting the backspace a little difficult at times, but I had no problem with the BigA$$ enter, having used some vintage ALPS boards with them. 
Now for the keyfeel.  The F had the same keycap feel as the M's minus the F and J nubs, which I missed.  If I owned an F I would take the F and J keys from and M and problem solved.  The keyfeel is lighter, yet just as tactile and satisfying.  It is wierd and hard to explain....   It's like a "plinkier" model M.   The sound is also different, it's higher pitched, and slightly quieter to my ears. 
The build quality is exelent.  As I understand it the M was made to lower production costs from the F, and It shows!  The cable looks like it could carry 120v 60Hz.  And the whole thing just feels very well put together,  some engeneer designed this thing with the hope it would still see use on a desk in 25 years.  And obviously it does.

Overall I loved it,  If I owned one I would make a few simple mods to it.  Lighten up the space bar, F and J nubs and swap in a 2x backspace. 
P.S. my writing skills are horrible thanks for bearing with me.  I have some other things to add, but I can't quite put them in writing :(

PICKS!!!
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k494/tipo33/IMG_0618_zps88b54f72.jpg)
F and my SSK
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k494/tipo33/IMG_0619_zps8d98e5fe.jpg)
F and an early M
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k494/tipo33/IMG_0621_zpsedbbaec4.jpg)
side profiles
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k494/tipo33/IMG_0622_zpsc4a5ca9c.jpg)
among it's family
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: khaangaaroo on Thu, 09 May 2013, 13:50:59
Good stuff. I only have one model M to compare to my model F. But it seems like the case of the model F is more white than the model Ms right? I just want to be sure my model M isn't yellowed more than it's supposed to :P

EDIT: Actually, they're pretty close to the same shade now that I look at them again. Must depend on the lighting.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 09 May 2013, 14:00:06
Awww, they family photo is so cute. I hope to have my SSK in hand by the time the Model F comes so I can do a side-by-side review. And nice writeup Tipo, you give yourself too little credit.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 09 May 2013, 16:39:49

Now for the keyfeel. 

The F had the same keycap feel as the M's minus the F and J nubs, which I missed. 

It is wierd and hard to explain....   It's like a "plinkier" model M.   The sound is also different, it's higher pitched, and slightly quieter to my ears. 



I think that there is more difference than you give credit for.

I consider the feel lighter and smoother.

Considering the internal construction, I think that it is fair to say that the F resonates with the sound of metal, where the M sounds like plastic.

Also, I floss mod all my IBMs, and I think that the end result is much nicer on the F, where the sound is attenuated just where it needs to be.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 13 May 2013, 17:27:33
USPS held the board hostage over the weekend. I just got it today. I'm getting my SSK tomorrow so I'm going to do a side-by-side comparison this week.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tipo33 on Mon, 13 May 2013, 18:13:50
USPS held the board hostage over the weekend. I just got it today. I'm getting my SSK tomorrow so I'm going to do a side-by-side comparison this week.

Looking forward to the reviews, of the F and the SSK.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Mon, 13 May 2013, 21:04:27
USPS held the board hostage over the weekend. I just got it today. I'm getting my SSK tomorrow so I'm going to do a side-by-side comparison this week.

This thread needs moar pictures CPT!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tipo33 on Mon, 13 May 2013, 21:10:55
This thread needs moar pictures CPT!

Agreed!!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 16 May 2013, 19:13:50
Did someone say pictures?

(http://i.imgur.com/RwjMyJz.jpg)

Mini family photo, nothing like Tibro's

(http://i.imgur.com/palV98Q.jpg)

Review coming this weekend :D
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 17 May 2013, 11:45:35
as someone who doesn't live CONUS I can't participate. But I'm reading the reviews (and salivating). I wonder why nobody ever builds such keyboards anymore. But I'm guessing they will go bankrupt, since these keyboards never die?

seriously, I look at all the prices on ebay, and there's no way I can be part of this. (not having the technical skills to make it work with Win7 is also another reason)
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: 1391406 on Fri, 17 May 2013, 12:32:46
(not having the technical skills to make it work with Win7 is also another reason)

That's the beauty of this keyboard. It doesn't require any real technical skill to make it work with Windows 7 - just an AT -> PS2 -> USB adapter.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 17 May 2013, 15:36:40
(not having the technical skills to make it work with Win7 is also another reason)

That's the beauty of this keyboard. It doesn't require any real technical skill to make it work with Windows 7 - just an AT -> PS2 -> USB adapter.

And re-map F10 to be the "Windows" key.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: esoomenona on Fri, 17 May 2013, 16:21:22
Dear diary,
The keyboard was F AT.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 23 May 2013, 21:39:47
The keyboard was so F AT. My thoughts can be found here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43883). To mashby and everyone else, I'm sorry it's taken me so long to ship it out. I wanted to write a review and I've been swamped at work. It will be sent out tomorrow ^__^
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: mashby on Fri, 24 May 2013, 09:02:46
The keyboard was so F AT. My thoughts can be found here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43883). To mashby and everyone else, I'm sorry it's taken me so long to ship it out. I wanted to write a review and I've been swamped at work. It will be sent out tomorrow ^__^

No worries. I've been buried as well, so glad it's taken this long to ship.  ;D
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 24 May 2013, 17:21:18
Ok, the package should be on it's way to mashby. AKIMbO, don't panic, the AT F hasn't been stolen or anything :D
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Fri, 24 May 2013, 17:22:36
Ok, the package should be on it's way to mashby. AKIMbO, don't panic, the AT F hasn't been stolen or anything :D


It's all good mang.  PM me the tracking number when you get the chance.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: khaangaaroo on Fri, 24 May 2013, 17:28:54
Ha funny, my Jailhouse Blues QFR just arrived at mashby's, and you're up next CptBA. I guess this is where our two tours cross paths.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 24 May 2013, 17:37:10
Sounds awesome khaangaaroo :D
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: mashby on Sat, 01 June 2013, 17:21:25
I've been putting the board through it's paces today and I'm still working on the review itself. However, I put together a quick video illustrating what the sound of the board is like when compared to an MX-Blue and a Jailhouse Blue. The latter is more like a short-throw Ergo Clear.

Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 01 June 2013, 17:35:35
Dat jailhouse blue....sounds so good.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sat, 01 June 2013, 18:28:08
I would like to jump in this tour.  I think that I have 250 posts. 
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 01 June 2013, 18:35:20
I would like to jump in this tour.  I think that I have 250 posts. 

I added you to the list.

Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 02 June 2013, 07:47:00
I would like to jump in this tour.  I think that I have 250 posts. 

I added you to the list.

Thank you!  And to my surprise, I have 260 something posts.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: mashby on Tue, 04 June 2013, 16:50:01
Just dropped the board off at the post office. It's shipping to The_Beast via Priority Mail.

Hope to have the review and photos posted by the end of the week.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Tue, 04 June 2013, 17:23:19
Just dropped the board off at the post office. It's shipping to The_Beast via Priority Mail.

Hope to have the review and photos posted by the end of the week.

Thanks mashby!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 15 June 2013, 21:35:36
Just out snipped on a F AT on ebay. Thought I could get it cheap at $107 shipped, but it jumped up to $141 seconds before, I entered $142, but minimum bid increase was $1.50. I entered $144 a quick as I could, but alas, it slipped through my fingers :(. On the hunt again


I should have just bought it now at $150 :(
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 15 June 2013, 21:40:33
That's not a review The_Beast....and where's Mashby's?? :P
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 15 June 2013, 21:40:58
Just out snipped on a F AT on ebay.

(http://stokereport.com/files/userimages/skeletor.jpg)

No!

Thought I could get it cheap at $107 shipped, but it jumped up to $141 seconds before, I entered $142, but minimum bid increase was $1.50

(https://raw.github.com/chrisbarrett/skeletor/master/skeletor.jpg)

Nooo!

I entered $144 a quick as I could, but alas, it slipped through my fingers :(.

(http://thepak.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/skull-skeletor.jpg)
Noooooooo!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: sleepy916 on Sun, 16 June 2013, 01:45:30
I was looking at that one too, better luck next time!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: t!ng on Sun, 16 June 2013, 05:43:35
@sleepy: Where did you get the metal "M" from???

I also own a FAT Model (again), since last week. I love it, but I think I will floss mod it.

I just wanted to mention that the actuation point is lower than on a Model M.
A Model M has it in the middle and the F's actuation point is much closer to the bottom. I wished it was closer to the top. Nevertheless it is my favorite clicky switch, followed by the M...

Great tour BTW !!!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 16 June 2013, 09:00:17
Just out snipped on a F AT on ebay. Thought I could get it cheap at $107 shipped, but it jumped up to $141 seconds before, I entered $142, but minimum bid increase was $1.50. I entered $144 a quick as I could, but alas, it slipped through my fingers :(. On the hunt again


I should have just bought it now at $150 :(

You scoundrels!  I was bidding on that, too.  I set the max bid that jacked up the price to cover me while I was in a movie.  Then I got out of the movie, and I lost by a couple bucks.  Darn.

I did not think I would get outbid on that thing, considering it was a little higher than recent Model F selling prices and the seller did not offer a return period.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 16 June 2013, 09:05:09
You guys are just silly. You love to waste time and frustrate yourselves.

Determine the ACTUAL highest price you will pay for an item, set a snipe at that price, and go to bed.

Anything else is like being in the lead near the end of a foot race and slowing down because you don't see anybody ahead of you.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Halverson on Sun, 16 June 2013, 09:07:29
Just out snipped on a F AT on ebay. Thought I could get it cheap at $107 shipped, but it jumped up to $141 seconds before, I entered $142, but minimum bid increase was $1.50. I entered $144 a quick as I could, but alas, it slipped through my fingers :(. On the hunt again


I should have just bought it now at $150 :(

I'm really surprised no one bought it now for $150.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 16 June 2013, 09:43:21
You guys are just silly. You love to waste time and frustrate yourselves.

Determine the ACTUAL highest price you will pay for an item, set a snipe at that price, and go to bed.

Anything else is like being in the lead near the end of a foot race and slowing down because you don't see anybody ahead of you.

That's what I did.  And I lost.  And I was fine with it.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: The_Beast on Sun, 16 June 2013, 11:27:45
Just out snipped on a F AT on ebay. Thought I could get it cheap at $107 shipped, but it jumped up to $141 seconds before, I entered $142, but minimum bid increase was $1.50. I entered $144 a quick as I could, but alas, it slipped through my fingers :(. On the hunt again


I should have just bought it now at $150 :(

You scoundrels!  I was bidding on that, too.  I set the max bid that jacked up the price to cover me while I was in a movie.  Then I got out of the movie, and I lost by a couple bucks.  Darn.

I did not think I would get outbid on that thing, considering it was a little higher than recent Model F selling prices and the seller did not offer a return period.

From what I've seen the XTs were going for the price and they have an even worst layout than the AT :(


Just out snipped on a F AT on ebay. Thought I could get it cheap at $107 shipped, but it jumped up to $141 seconds before, I entered $142, but minimum bid increase was $1.50. I entered $144 a quick as I could, but alas, it slipped through my fingers :(. On the hunt again


I should have just bought it now at $150 :(

I'm really surprised no one bought it now for $150.

I know, I should have just bought it now a few days ago, but I wanted to get it as cheap as possible since it there was a slight bit of damage on the bottom of the board
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: The_Beast on Sun, 16 June 2013, 13:45:12
A small review, written on a mix of my SSK and this Model F

Aesthetics:

It looks like a typical IBM keyboard, but with a compact layout (for them at the time huehuehue). However, there is a lot of wasted space above that that should have easily supported a full F row instead of it being on the left.



Stock Layout:
The dumbest thing I have seen in a while. The tiny backspace, the \ key right next to it made my constantly hit the \ key when wanting to backspace.

Alt on the bottom and control are not where they should be

No delete key which I use quite a bit

Esc on the other side of the board

Number pad not having the / or + key

Heavy spacebar, I like a uniform board

I quite like that the number pad is on the right. I find this layout a bit more useful than a TKL layout because when the number function is off, it's a like a TKL layout with the arrows. The bigger enter has also grown on me



Modded layout:

With a simple script for AHK, I changed the layout to something I could use, here's what I used:

LAlt::Ctrl
Ctrl::alt
Capslock::delete
NumpadAdd::NumpadEnter
NumpadSub::NumpadAdd
NumpadMult::NumpadSub
ScrollLock::NumpadMult
NumLock::NumpadDiv
esc::NumLock
F1::esc
F2::capslock

The control is now in the spot I'm used to, alt is the the caps lock, caps lock is now a delete key, number pad is now how it's now commonly laid out. I wish AHK supported the sys req key, that would have been another backspace like what I'm used to on my UB23 (amazing numper pad layout IMO). F1 is now esc since I never use F1 and it's where the esc should be and F2 is capslock just because.



The feels
The F seems a lot lighter to type when compared to my SSK. I quite like lighter switches, so this aspect of the F grew on my quite quickly. At first I wasn't convinced of the F's typing feel, but by the second day, I really liked the feels. I'm still not sure if I like the feeling of a Model M or a Model F, but they are both an enjoyable typing experience for me



Day by day thoughts:

Day 1: used for about 10 minutes before deciding the layout was amazingly dumb and I was ready to ask AKIMbO for the next person on the list so I wouldn't be wasting my time on a hopeless layout. I was constantly hitting the \ key when going for a backspace. I was raging quit hard since I had to type a lot that day so I swapped it for my SSK to get some work done.

Day 2: Decided that it's costing me a bit of money just to test one out, so I might as well get my moneys worth (thanks for running the tour BTW) I wrote a simple AHK script and the layout became less useless

Day 3: I'm starting to get used to the 1x backspace, not loving it, but tolerating it

Day 4: It's grown on me, begin to research if I can change the 1x backspace to a 2x if I ever get one

Day 5: I start looking on ebay, found a F122 but it was a Model M :(, continue the search and find the one I raged about last night.

Day 6: Play a few games on it. Decent, but minecraft was super hard due to noting being able to crouch and move

Day 7: Lose at the Model F on ebay, should have bought it now on day 4, but I didn't since I'm cheap

Day 8: Depression that the F will soon be on it's way to another person and not staying with me, but dealing with it since I still have my SSK and the hopes that I find another Model F on ebay and not let it slip my grasps again




And here's a picture of my setup as I write the review. Excuse the WASD and arrows on the SSK, I was too lazy to change them :D
(http://i.imgur.com/bHSwu7b.jpg)
Messy, I know. But I know where everything is, and that's all that matters dammit!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tgujay on Thu, 20 June 2013, 08:20:15
Akimbo after you get my money for the Phantom and stuff could I be added to this list?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 20 June 2013, 11:44:17
Akimbo after you get my money for the Phantom and stuff could I be added to this list?  Thanks.

Yes....I'll add you when i get off of work.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Dimswitch on Thu, 20 June 2013, 14:36:00
Just out snipped on a F AT on ebay. Thought I could get it cheap at $107 shipped, but it jumped up to $141 seconds before, I entered $142, but minimum bid increase was $1.50. I entered $144 a quick as I could, but alas, it slipped through my fingers :(. On the hunt again


I should have just bought it now at $150 :(

You scoundrels!  I was bidding on that, too.  I set the max bid that jacked up the price to cover me while I was in a movie.  Then I got out of the movie, and I lost by a couple bucks.  Darn.

I did not think I would get outbid on that thing, considering it was a little higher than recent Model F selling prices and the seller did not offer a return period.

Ha. I was about to hit the BIN on that auction when someone dropped the min bid...
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 20 June 2013, 16:14:18
USPS says the keyboard should be delivered here tomorrow.  Can't wait!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 21 June 2013, 00:40:17
Just out snipped on a F AT on ebay. Thought I could get it cheap at $107 shipped, but it jumped up to $141 seconds before, I entered $142, but minimum bid increase was $1.50. I entered $144 a quick as I could, but alas, it slipped through my fingers :(. On the hunt again


I should have just bought it now at $150 :(

You scoundrels!  I was bidding on that, too.  I set the max bid that jacked up the price to cover me while I was in a movie.  Then I got out of the movie, and I lost by a couple bucks.  Darn.

I did not think I would get outbid on that thing, considering it was a little higher than recent Model F selling prices and the seller did not offer a return period.

Ha. I was about to hit the BIN on that auction when someone dropped the min bid...

Should have, the sell price was $6 less than BIN price. And it looks like it was in quite good condition.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Fri, 21 June 2013, 06:04:50
USPS says the keyboard should be delivered here tomorrow.  Can't wait!

Aww yeah
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CommunistWitchDr on Sat, 22 June 2013, 23:47:23
I'd like to get in on trying this fine piece of machinery.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 22 June 2013, 23:53:47
I'd like to get in on trying this fine piece of machinery.

Added you.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 23 June 2013, 22:17:54
Forgot to post that I received the keyboard on Friday!  I love it as much as I knew I would, modulo the layout quirks and ridiculously heavy spacebar.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 23 June 2013, 22:24:57
I came in here to harass people about the lack of reviews (I'm looking at you mashby and hashbaz!) when I realized I never actually linked the one I wrote here. So the review I wrote for this tour can be found here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43883).
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: khaangaaroo on Mon, 24 June 2013, 00:54:34
I came in here to harass people about the lack of reviews (I'm looking at you mashby and hashbaz!) when I realized I never actually linked the one I wrote here. So the review I wrote for this tour can be found here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43883).

Dude, memory loss much? :P
You must be gettin old...

The keyboard was so F AT. My thoughts can be found here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43883). To mashby and everyone else, I'm sorry it's taken me so long to ship it out. I wanted to write a review and I've been swamped at work. It will be sent out tomorrow ^__^
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 25 June 2013, 08:08:37
Er. Brb, going to fuse the cone of shame to my head permanently. I'm ridiculous....
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: codyeatworld on Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:04:14
Says the AT F is out for delivery!

I need to make some room on my desk :)
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: GLaDOS on Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:23:37
I know I can't have it, but I'd just like to say that is a very nice looking board. Always wanted to try bucking springs, and I love that "flat-and-raised" keycap design, but model (F/M) are hard to find ver ehre, especially inthe UK layout.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: codyeatworld on Wed, 03 July 2013, 15:37:15
Just got it in the mail and hooked it up about 10 minutes ago. I've never tried a buckling spring before and so far I'm hooked. Can't wait to use it over the next week.

(http://i.imgur.com/IJkwzQu.jpg)
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: codyeatworld on Mon, 15 July 2013, 18:29:03
Sorry I held on to it a bit longer, didn't even realize it. I really enjoyed using it and plan on getting a buckling spring in the very near future.

I'll publish a review on my blog soon, and I can ship it off to the next person (OrangeJewce) as soon as tomorrow.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Mon, 15 July 2013, 18:38:15
Sorry I held on to it a bit longer, didn't even realize it. I really enjoyed using it and plan on getting a buckling spring in the very near future.

I'll publish a review on my blog soon, and I can ship it off to the next person (OrangeJewce) as soon as tomorrow.

It's cool.  I PM'ed OJ but haven't heard back yet.  So I'm skipping him for now and moving onto prdlm2009.  I'll pass along his shipping info when he PMs it to me.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 17 July 2013, 09:38:24
Hey Akimbo, I thought you USB modded your Model F? Or was that another one?

EDIT: Nevermind that was your Model F XT :D
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Wed, 17 July 2013, 15:54:04
Hey Akimbo, I thought you USB modded your Model F? Or was that another one?

EDIT: Nevermind that was your Model F XT :D
My f xt, f at and f 122 are all usb modded.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 02 August 2013, 18:30:41
The old girl arrived today, after a slight misdirection to Fort Wayne.  After a few clicks, I understand the hype.  What a dream.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Fri, 02 August 2013, 19:18:52
The old girl arrived today, after a slight misdirection to Fort Wayne.  After a few clicks, I understand the hype.  What a dream.

Aweeee yusss.  Don't forget to post a pic or two and your review after you've thoroughly tested her out!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: TimIsABat on Fri, 02 August 2013, 22:52:52
Totally interested in this. I really want to know how a buckling spring board feels, and I heard that the model F has quite a unique feel.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sat, 03 August 2013, 08:25:12
So anyway to get the arrow keys to work on Mac OS?  I anticipated that this could be a problem.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tehsprayer on Sat, 03 August 2013, 08:26:38
sweet to try, no where near that post count though, too much lurking!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 03 August 2013, 08:28:44
So anyway to get the arrow keys to work on Mac OS?  I anticipated that this could be a problem.

Taking the board off numlock doesn't work?
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: snoopy on Sat, 03 August 2013, 08:31:34
So anyway to get the arrow keys to work on Mac OS?  I anticipated that this could be a problem.

Taking the board off numlock doesn't work?

You have to use KeyRemap4MacBook. There is an option "Use KeyPad as Arrow (PC Style NumLock)". Then it works.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sat, 03 August 2013, 08:45:26
So anyway to get the arrow keys to work on Mac OS?  I anticipated that this could be a problem.

Taking the board off numlock doesn't work?

You have to use KeyRemap4MacBook. There is an option "Use KeyPad as Arrow (PC Style NumLock)". Then it works.

Ok, thanks problem solved.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tgujay on Sun, 04 August 2013, 21:24:48
Low on cash at the moment, skip me for now and I may join back up.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Sun, 04 August 2013, 21:34:31
Low on cash at the moment, skip me for now and I may join back up.

Skipped you! :P
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: tgujay on Mon, 05 August 2013, 09:28:39
Low on cash at the moment, skip me for now and I may join back up.

Skipped you! :P

Thank you.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sat, 10 August 2013, 20:34:17
Early report from the workshop of prdlm:  Exquisite and springy. Just a joy.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Mon, 19 August 2013, 21:47:34
The tour has now concluded....still waiting on reviews from prdlm2009 and *cough---Mashby---cough*.  :P

Thank you to all who participated!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: sleepy916 on Mon, 19 August 2013, 21:53:19
So when is the Kingsaver tour starting up?  ;-)
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Mon, 19 August 2013, 21:53:49
So when is the Kingsaver tour starting up?  ;-)

Lolololol nevar!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: sleepy916 on Mon, 19 August 2013, 21:56:51
I hadn't seen one until you showed a picture. How rare are those things? It looks good.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Mon, 19 August 2013, 22:07:25
I hadn't seen one until you showed a picture. How rare are those things? It looks good.

I think they are pretty rare.  Mine isn't the one to covet though....you should check out calavera's.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Mon, 19 August 2013, 22:12:58
The tour has now concluded....still waiting on reviews from prdlm2009 and *cough---Mashby---cough*.  :P

Thank you to all who participated!

I'll get there!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Mon, 19 August 2013, 22:48:23
The tour has now concluded....still waiting on reviews from prdlm2009 and *cough---Mashby---cough*.  :P

Thank you to all who participated!

I'll get there!

It's cool...just post it before mashby posts his...that way I can continue to ridicule mashby.  :))

Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: mashby on Tue, 20 August 2013, 09:07:45
It's cool...just post it before mashby posts his...that way I can continue to ridicule mashby.  :))

YES!

AKIMbO, you kid because you love. And I love you too.  :-*

Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 20 August 2013, 19:54:17
Have you ever had a wonderful dream in which you are floating on soft, pillowly clouds, with a soft breeze cooling the sun’s rays, a down-to-Earth supermodel feeding you Nutella on a silver spoon, and unable suppress that giant smile on your face? That's what it is like to spend an evening typing away on an IBM Model AT F keyboard.
 
My experience with buckling springs is not extensive, but I have dabbled with a few BS boards.  I owned a Model M for awhile, have tinkered with Space Saver’s and 122-key M’s at meetups, and currently own an EnduraPro (for sale for a very reasonable price).  While I do enjoy the feel, sturdiness, and durability of buckling spring keyboards, I found that the heavy actuation force caused my hands to tire during a long typing session, which brought back those haunting memories of rubber domes (the horror!).  Even with the advantages of the Model M, I decided to leave it in my past and go full speed into ergo boards (perhaps I’ll make an exception for an SSK or an affordable M15).
 
The Model AT F was my first experience with a capacitive buckling spring board, and now buckling springs are on the verge of making a strong comeback in my life.  Why?  Here are a few reasons of why I have such a wonderful opinion of the Model F:
 
1.  The keys are pillowy soft compared to the stiffer Model M.  It seems to me they require slightly less actuation force than a Model M (all of wcass’s buckling spring boards at KeyCon confirmed this for me).
2. I don’t have any reasonable explanation for this statement, but the Model F feel a bit springier than a typical Model M.
3. The case is rock solid.  http://youtu.be/IocCC1-jeTY (http://youtu.be/IocCC1-jeTY)
4. The cord also seems quite heavy duty.
5. I dig the arrow cluster on the numpad.  Saves space.
6. Keycaps look and feel as good as new, even with all their years of wisdom.
 
And after writing that list, I ache to have the Model F in my clutches once again, laying together on a bed of hay in the barn loft, with only the sound of its sweet, sweet click to break the silence.  The pain, the heartache!
 
Not everything about the Model F is ice cream and roses, and those shortcomings makes me uneasy about a long-term commitment.  I understand this board was designed for the computing needs of the time, but these things caused me some grief, mostly layout related:
 
1. No delete key.  Just backspace.
2. If you are doing heavy numpad use, the lack of arrow cluster could be an issue.
3. Use with a Mac requires the KeyRemap4Macbook in order to use the arrows or get normal functionality from the keyboard.
4. A full palette of F keys would be nice.
5. Why the heck is Escape way over on the right???
6. Did the space bar really need to be that big?
7. I’m an ergo freak.  If I use the a normal flat keyboard for too long, my wrists start hurting and my ergo boards in the corner start getting grouchy and are prone to play tricks on me, like hiding my keycap puller.
 
The Model F and I had a wonderful time in our short time together despite the hiccups.  Perhaps we would not flourish as a couple in the long run, but I always will look back with fond memories (http://youtu.be/14ivtcelIo0?t=1m43s (http://youtu.be/14ivtcelIo0?t=1m43s)).  The Model F has caused me to turn my back on the famous Model M and the infamous Unicomp.  Now I lust for something I cannot obtain for a low price tag.  Sigh.
 
Akimbo, thanks for giving us this opportunity.  Another mystery of my keyboard journey has been resolved thanks to this tour.
 
As a parting note, I encourage you to NOT buy this keyboard because it would drive up the price for me.  So this keyboard sucks. Don’t buy it.  Get a Model M.  It’s a better board.  K thanks bye.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 20 August 2013, 20:00:25
Nice little review prdlm. AT F is indeed an amazing board, hopefully it'll see some more love from folks and be able to step out of the M's shadow. Letters to Unicomp for a model F!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 20 August 2013, 20:29:30
Nice little review prdlm. AT F is indeed an amazing board, hopefully it'll see some more love from folks and be able to step out of the M's shadow. Letters to Unicomp for a model F!

I think this tour has led to the recent increase of Model AT F prices on Ebay.   Superfluous reviews like mine don't help.

Darn it, I should have bashed the thing to deflect interest.  Rescinding review now! 
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Game Theory on Tue, 20 August 2013, 20:32:11
I suspect so too :'(
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Tue, 20 August 2013, 21:14:53
Thanks for the review prdlm2009! 
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 21 August 2013, 12:08:02
Thanks for the review prdlm2009!

Now all that's left is Mashby.  I say, tapping my foot, arms crossed, scowl on my face, looking perturbed.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 21 August 2013, 18:22:53
Nice little review prdlm. AT F is indeed an amazing board, hopefully it'll see some more love from folks and be able to step out of the M's shadow. Letters to Unicomp for a model F!

I think this tour has led to the recent increase of Model AT F prices on Ebay.   Superfluous reviews like mine don't help.

Darn it, I should have bashed the thing to deflect interest.  Rescinding review now! 

Good luck finding an AT. During the tour I was looking for one. I found two or three but none since then. I think the prices were like $150+ on 2 of them. The last one was a BIN of like $80 but it was bought before I even had a chance to buy it. Newly listed but already bought :(


There are a couple of F122s, but the prices are around $180-$200 without shipping....
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Wed, 21 August 2013, 18:34:42
Thanks for the review prdlm2009!

Now all that's left is Mashby.  I say, tapping my foot, arms crossed, scowl on my face, looking perturbed.

Que Mashby's review in 3....2....just joking!  We all know Mashby isn't going to post a review. :P

Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 21 August 2013, 19:48:29
Good luck finding an AT.

Be patient, Grasshopper.

Put in a bid at $99 every time one comes up, and you might be surprised someday.

I have waited years to find certain items on ebay, then suddenly gotten one dirt cheap.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 21 August 2013, 22:33:58
Nice little review prdlm. AT F is indeed an amazing board, hopefully it'll see some more love from folks and be able to step out of the M's shadow. Letters to Unicomp for a model F!

I think this tour has led to the recent increase of Model AT F prices on Ebay.   Superfluous reviews like mine don't help.

Darn it, I should have bashed the thing to deflect interest.  Rescinding review now! 

Good luck finding an AT. During the tour I was looking for one. I found two or three but none since then. I think the prices were like $150+ on 2 of them. The last one was a BIN of like $80 but it was bought before I even had a chance to buy it. Newly listed but already bought :(


There are a couple of F122s, but the prices are around $180-$200 without shipping....

I actually might prefer the F122 after playing with wcass's buckling spring boards at Keycon.  Having all those different IBM's in one place was a great opportunity.

Also, I have no desire to ANSI-fy a Model AT F, like your recent project.  Just do not want to put in the effort (have enough stuff going at the moment, don't need more projects) and I might prefer the feel of the F122 is real nice for a buckling spring, despite its massive size and weight.

I saw those F122s on Ebay.  No way the seller is going to get that price.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: dante on Wed, 21 August 2013, 22:46:18
F122 is the Minimoog of [computer] keyboards
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 21 August 2013, 23:02:58
Nice little review prdlm. AT F is indeed an amazing board, hopefully it'll see some more love from folks and be able to step out of the M's shadow. Letters to Unicomp for a model F!

I think this tour has led to the recent increase of Model AT F prices on Ebay.   Superfluous reviews like mine don't help.

Darn it, I should have bashed the thing to deflect interest.  Rescinding review now! 

Good luck finding an AT. During the tour I was looking for one. I found two or three but none since then. I think the prices were like $150+ on 2 of them. The last one was a BIN of like $80 but it was bought before I even had a chance to buy it. Newly listed but already bought :(


There are a couple of F122s, but the prices are around $180-$200 without shipping....

I actually might prefer the F122 after playing with wcass's buckling spring boards at Keycon.  Having all those different IBM's in one place was a great opportunity.

Also, I have no desire to ANSI-fy a Model AT F, like your recent project.  Just do not want to put in the effort (have enough stuff going at the moment, don't need more projects) and I might prefer the feel of the F122 is real nice for a buckling spring, despite its massive size and weight.

I saw those F122s on Ebay.  No way the seller is going to get that price.

He's not budging on price one bit. An offer got my $5 less than BIN :(
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 22 August 2013, 01:07:20
Nice little review prdlm. AT F is indeed an amazing board, hopefully it'll see some more love from folks and be able to step out of the M's shadow. Letters to Unicomp for a model F!

I think this tour has led to the recent increase of Model AT F prices on Ebay.   Superfluous reviews like mine don't help.

Darn it, I should have bashed the thing to deflect interest.  Rescinding review now! 

Good luck finding an AT. During the tour I was looking for one. I found two or three but none since then. I think the prices were like $150+ on 2 of them. The last one was a BIN of like $80 but it was bought before I even had a chance to buy it. Newly listed but already bought :(


There are a couple of F122s, but the prices are around $180-$200 without shipping....

I actually might prefer the F122 after playing with wcass's buckling spring boards at Keycon.  Having all those different IBM's in one place was a great opportunity.

Also, I have no desire to ANSI-fy a Model AT F, like your recent project.  Just do not want to put in the effort (have enough stuff going at the moment, don't need more projects) and I might prefer the feel of the F122 is real nice for a buckling spring, despite its massive size and weight.

I saw those F122s on Ebay.  No way the seller is going to get that price.

He's not budging on price one bit. An offer got my $5 less than BIN :(

We've all ruined for ourselves. Good job everyone   :'(
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 22 August 2013, 06:30:29
We've all ruined for ourselves. Good job everyone   :'(

What do you mean?  not sure I understand.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 22 August 2013, 08:46:47
Until Soarer came along, F-122s were all but unusable and sold cheap because there was zero demand, with some small supply.

He made them easy, about 2 years ago, and people (such as myself) gushing about them made them seem more desirable.

For several months there was little action, until a few dozen Geekhackers started using them and getting excited. The ball started rolling and has been gaining momentum for a solid year now.

With the demand whipped up into a froth, and the supply basically the same as it ever was, the market is completely transformed.

I would love to get another one for a steampunk project I have in mind (all I need is the internal plates, I would be happy with a severely damaged one, hint hint) but I doubt that we will be seeing them for under $100 any more. $200 is not an unfair price for a good one, given their rarity, in my opinion, and I get tired of people around here whining about their price when I see things like individual key caps selling for even more than that.

So, I am still completely flummoxed that you bozos let poxeclipse's treasure trove come and go without even the slightest hint of excitement. Anybody who let that awesome stash pass them by should just shut the f*ck up while kicking themselves continuously.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: snoopy on Thu, 22 August 2013, 09:07:09
I recently bought a AT F and overall paid a lot for it (shipping to ger + import taxes + maybe not the best deal on us ebay). I really liked it, the feeling is awesome. I think it is that, what I initially expected a Model M to feel, before I got my first M.

I used it for some days, did a lot of remapping with ukelele and keyremap4macbook and a flossmod. But i didn't really get used to the layout. Missed some dedicated arrows and some other keys on their normal position. So i switched back to ssk and never touched it again. Maybe I should give it another chance.

I think a mod would help (small spacebar, normal backspace) but I'm currently too lazy and got a huge workload and other projects. The 2 ssks I wanted to restore are waiting since month for me.

Perfect would be a combination of ssk and AT F. But that's only a dream.

Don't know what to do... another chance, mod it, put it in a box and put it to the rest of my keyboard collection that I never use, sell it,...

It's really a conflict. the nice look and esthetic and good standard layout of the ssk vs the awesome feeling of the F

snoopy (typed on SSK)
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Wed, 18 September 2013, 16:05:38
Just checking in to see if mashby posted his review yet XD
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: mashby on Tue, 24 September 2013, 08:50:15
As a huge fan of the buckling spring mechanical switch, I was very eager to try out this keyboard and jumped at the opportunity to get on the tour. I’ve waxed poetically here (http://mashby.com/2006/09/surprise-im-a-keyboard-guy-who-knew/) and here (http://mashby.com/2012/03/clacky-types-again/) about how much I love typing on “Clacky”, so no need to rehash. Suffice to say that I love the switch and was very curious how different the Model AT F differered from the Model M.

About The Board
The IBM Model AT F (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer/AT) is the most famous keyboard of the Model F Series (http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Model_F) released by IBM and was the first keyboard to use the buckling spring mechanical switch. The series was started in 1981 and the Model AT F was released in 1984. The Model F was a successor to IBM’s beam spring (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Beam_Spring) technology which allowed IBM to reduce the overall weight and cost of manufacturing over it’s previous keyboards. It featues 84 keys in a much different layout than what most people have grown accustom to with the later 101 standard estabilshed by the Model M series.

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3823/9863266233_906778b7a2_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9863266233/)
Ready To Roll (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9863266233/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr

Key layout isn’t the only difference between the Model F and the Model M, the buckling spring itself is different. In a nutshell, a buckling spring switch consists of a spring attached to a hammer which is housed in a plastic barrel. The basic design is the same in both models, but with the F, the barrels are individually mounted, the hammer is larger and uses capacative contacts to activate a key, versus the membrane used in the Model M. For more information on the differences, I highly recommend Deskthority’s Wiki Entry (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Buckling_Spring#.22Membrane_Buckling_Spring.22_-_Model_M) on the subject.

Just as the Model F introduced cost savings from previous versions, the later Model M introduced even further cost savings. Given that my only experience with the buckling spring has been with later models, having the opportuinity to try an earlier model was quite enticing. Would the older Model F be superior to it’s less expensive siblings, or were the cost savings just a by product of refining the technology?

It’s A Tank
The keyboard arrived during the first week of June, 2013 and the first thing I noticed was the weight - the keyboard is a *tank*. Granted, I’ve grown accustomed to the size and weight of a 60% compact keyboard, so any keyboard is going to look-and-feel substantionally larger and heavier, but this board exceeded my expectations. I wish I had weighed the keyboard while I had it, but at any moment I expected it to transform into an Autobot and tell me I had to save the world from the Decepticons.

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3739/9863189896_5a506d7510_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9863189896/)
Feet Closeup (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9863189896/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr

One of the best examples of the weight is the way the “feet” are designed. There are huge flat knobs on each side of the keyboard which raise and lower the feet to change the pitch of the keyboard. Most people are familar with the flimsly feet that flip out from the bottom of your keyboard, but these levers lock the feet into place with a solid “thock” when you move them. It’s amazing.

Once I got over the shock of the weight, I set about connecting it to my iMac and taking her for a spin. AKIMbO included an adapter that allowed me to connect the keyboard via USB and after the customary quick setup that initates with all new keyboards I plug in, I was off to the races and typing away.

The Feel
It’s been quite awhile since I’ve typed on my Model M and unfortunately, I had loaned Clacky to fellow GH member, Kaporkle so that he could create a 3d render, which is coming along nicely (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52308907@N07/9726992837/in/contacts/). This was unfortunate because I didn’t have a recent frame of reference to refer to. All of my other keyboards were ALPS or Cherry MX and thus I had to rely on older sense memory that may not be the most accurate. I couldn’t do a side-by-side comparision. That being said, I did type on my beloved Model M for many years and used it off-and-on over the past year, so my previous typing expereince wasn’t too far in the distant past.

If I had to sum up the feel in one word? Snappy.


The feel of the Model F had a certian pop to it that is hard to describe. It reminded me of the Model M, but if felt much more repsonsive and the return on the keystrokes seemed faster. The key caps are identical to the Model M key caps, so there wasn’t much difference in that regard in terms of feel, or texture, but the responsiveness from the springs was really, really nice. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that I actually prefer the Model F to the Model M.

It’s not quite perfect though. I did noticed that there was a pronouced “ping” sound when typing. As I typed on the keyboard, I could hear the sound of the spring ringing as I typed. If I were going to put this keyboard into my main rotation, I would probably do the floss mod (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=9761.0) to reduce this sound. If it changed the feel too much then I would remove it, but reducing this extra ping would be a high priority for me.

The other thing I would change is to reduce the spring tension on the spacebar. AKIMbO left the spacebar un-modded, thus as it was originally intended and that thing was a monster. I’m a big fan of heavy switches. My main board uses Cherry MX-Black and MX-Dark Grey switches, but I had to completely spank the spacebar to get it to actuate. It felt like I was attempting to play slap bass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slapping). I’m glad he sent it out un-modded because I don’t know that I would have believed just how heavy it was without trying it.

Usability
What caused me to stop using my Model M was the fact that it lacked a Winkey. The Model F of course lacks this key as well and it also places the Alt, Control and Caps Lock key in different places. Given that I’ve become a huge fan of the 60% layout, those are really the only keys that affected me when using the keyboard in terms of placement.

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5493/9863183796_e2c2700c02_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9863183796/)
Right Side Closeup (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9863183796/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr

For basic typing, I really had no issues with the layout, with the notable exception of the backspace. With the Model F, it’s a 1x key and I found myself accidentially hititng the “\” key quite a bit. I might be able to adjust to it over time and as long as I wasn’t doing a lot of editing that required control, win, or alt keys, I think I would have no problems using this keyboard. Alas, any aspect of my computing experience requires using the winkey constantly and the control and alt keys are a close second, so I don’t think I could make this a primary board.

Conclusion
I freaking love this keyboard switch! It may be 30-years old, but I don’t know of any switch produced since that has matched the feel and responsiveness of the Model F buckling spring. If you like a clicky switch, then in my opinion, this is the gold standard. The Model M is a close second, which is big words coming from me, because before this keyboard tour, I always believed the Model M buckling spring to be the best. What can I say? We have a new king in town! Well, in *my* town at least.

If you'd like to see a comparison of what the switch sounds like, I did a quick sound sample video comparing standard Cherry MX-Blue, Jailhouse Blue and the Model F in the video below.


Unfortunately, as fantastic as the switch is, the 80’s layout is a deal breaker. There is simply no way that I could use this keyboard on a regular basis. Layout and missing keys render this form factor unusuable in my everyday work. That doesn’t mean I can’t dream though. I’ve now modified my fantasty keyboard – 60% ANSI 125 with Model F buckling spring switches. If such a keyboard were ever to exist, there is no doubt in my mind that I would move heaven and earth to put it under my fingertips.

Special Thanks
I am very appreciative of AKIMbO for being so generous with a true gem of a keyboard and for being so patient for my review. He provided me with a very unique experience that will plauge… err... haunt… umm... influence every other keyboard I ever type on. Thank you.

Should he decide to ever launch a subsequent tour, I highly recommend that you take full advantage and sign up. In fact, you might have to fight me for a spot on the list because I might just have to give her another whirl!
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 24 September 2013, 09:48:02
I have seen so many videos of Mashby's arms in typing videos on this forum, that I can recognize his posts by those hairy beasts.
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: Parak on Tue, 24 September 2013, 10:57:16
Unfortunately, as fantastic as the switch is, the 80’s layout is a deal breaker. There is simply no way that I could use this keyboard on a regular basis. Layout and missing keys render this form factor unusuable in my everyday work.

Well, it is modable to a relatively better layout with some effort. See here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48288.0).

That doesn’t mean I can’t dream though. I’ve now modified my fantasty keyboard – 60% ANSI 125 with Model F buckling spring switches. If such a keyboard were ever to exist, there is no doubt in my mind that I would move heaven and earth to put it under my fingertips.

It does exist (http://kishy.dyndns.org/?p=894), but is essentially unobtainium at this point and nonconvertible with current means. Effort at this point is far better spent on making new capacitive buckling spring bits (controller, barrels, flippies, etc) in order to create new layouts..
Title: Re: Model AT F Tour!
Post by: AKIMbO on Tue, 24 September 2013, 20:29:34
Nice review mashby!

The layout can be changed to approximate a more modern version.  I've done just that to my personal AT F (see below).  You can get even closer to a modern layout (six pack, arrow keys, etc.) with a F 122 and Soarer's adapter. 

(http://i.imgur.com/eSt6hAM.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/s12dep.jpg)