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geekhack Marketplace => Group Buys and Preorders => Topic started by: Krakob on Mon, 20 March 2017, 14:53:57

Title: [GB] GMK NorDeUK (Closed; postmortem inside)
Post by: Krakob on Mon, 20 March 2017, 14:53:57
[attachimg=1]
Postmortem (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88361.msg2413199#msg2413199)

---
Closed. Original post below:

Order form (https://goo.gl/forms/68aOmKq2CHBMOnPE3)

Price: €119,47 (of which €12,5 is profit margin)
International shipping: €15,50 (€134,97 total)
Swedish shipping: €10,00 (€129,47 total)

GMK NorDeUK (pronounced noor-doik) is an effort to bring a GMK set to a large portion of the western European community by providing a cheap, ISO based keyset shipped within Europe. ISO UK, DE, SE/FI, NO, and DK are all covered almost perfectly!

Progress:

Order progress: 47/150
Invoices are due April 19th
Please submit a few days before that! You can always wait with paying.

---

Read the Interest Check (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87739)
Other threads: /r/MechanicalKeyboards (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/60iu3n/gb_gmk_nordeuk/), /r/Mechmarket (https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/60iuk8/gb_gmk_nordeuk/), Deskthority (https://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/gmk-nordeuk-t16197.html)

---

I’m aware that I said the profit margin would be €10 in the Interest Check. It was raised to €12.5 in order to cover PayPal fees, which I didn’t quite account for.

I’ll be posting weekly updates here (with exception of the waiting period) in order to keep the GB as transparent as I can!

If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to ask here or PM me!
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Thu, 23 March 2017, 15:24:45
Live at last! We have a long way to go for MOQ, but it's entirely possible! ;)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Fri, 24 March 2017, 05:34:33
Would it be possible to pay through SEPA to save some PayPal fees?
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: BunnyLake on Fri, 24 March 2017, 06:09:01
good luck with your gb, i would love to order if it was any other colorway but i just have so so many cherry white on black sets, but great to see someone pushing an iso set with a clear direction and excellent well thought out compatibility

i wish you every success
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: longtran1568 on Fri, 24 March 2017, 06:31:03
Hi,

I live in Finland, is shipping to Finland also qualified as International? Even the cheapest shipping option (sent as large letter) will deliver in 1 week between Sweden and Finland.

Would you consider another, cheaper shipping option for people in neighboring countries like Finland and Norway?  ;D
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Fri, 24 March 2017, 06:59:32
Would it be possible to pay through SEPA to save some PayPal fees?
I'm not familiar with the system but from what I gather it's a direct bank transfer, correct? We could absolutely arrange that! Pop me a PM with a bit of an explanation, and send an invoice request (just mention SEPA in the special requests field).

good luck with your gb, i would love to order if it was any other colorway but i just have so so many cherry white on black sets, but great to see someone pushing an iso set with a clear direction and excellent well thought out compatibility

i wish you every success

Thank you! :)

Hi,

I live in Finland, is shipping to Finland also qualified as International? Even the cheapest shipping option (sent as large letter) will deliver in 1 week between Sweden and Finland.

Would you consider another, cheaper shipping option for people in neighboring countries like Finland and Norway?  ;D
Only Sweden counts as domestic, all others are international. I'm not entirely sure an envelope would be possible given the dimensions and need for padding. From what I can tell from PostNord's shipping calculator, tracked and insured is the cheapest option anyway.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Fri, 24 March 2017, 14:40:51
Would it be possible to pay through SEPA to save some PayPal fees?
I'm not familiar with the system but from what I gather it's a direct bank transfer, correct? We could absolutely arrange that! Pop me a PM with a bit of an explanation, and send an invoice request (just mention SEPA in the special requests field).
I submitted my order but I decided to pay with PayPal anyway, it will be less of a hassle for the both of us if things change.

Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Fri, 24 March 2017, 16:25:01
Would it be possible to pay through SEPA to save some PayPal fees?
I'm not familiar with the system but from what I gather it's a direct bank transfer, correct? We could absolutely arrange that! Pop me a PM with a bit of an explanation, and send an invoice request (just mention SEPA in the special requests field).
I submitted my order but I decided to pay with PayPal anyway, it will be less of a hassle for the both of us if things change.

Keep up the good work.
Alrighty! Glad to have you aboard!  :D
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Fri, 24 March 2017, 16:27:15
Glad to have you aboard!  :D
My pleasure.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: kevral on Sat, 25 March 2017, 01:10:14
Any chance you can send "Poste Restante" within Sweden?

Asking because that would let me pick it up in Strömstad and take it across the border to Norway myself, legally avoiding 25 % additional taxes.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Sat, 25 March 2017, 03:20:16
Any chance you can send "Poste Restante" within Sweden?

Asking because that would let me pick it up in Strömstad and take it across the border to Norway myself, legally avoiding 25 % additional taxes.
Sure! You're gonna have to tell me where to send it though. Info here: http://www.postnord.se/ta-emot/hantera-post/poste-restante

You can submit an invoice request with the Swedish postal number and location and note Poste Restante in the requests field and I should have all necessary information.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: pon10 on Sat, 25 March 2017, 09:12:21
thanks for setting this up! signed up for 2 sets
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Sat, 25 March 2017, 15:57:54
thanks for setting this up! signed up for 2 sets

Sweet! You're invoiced  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: pon10 on Sat, 25 March 2017, 20:36:04
Tack! Jeg håber vi for nok med til at køre den igennem!
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: pon10 on Sat, 25 March 2017, 21:18:42
Good people remember, its GMK happy hour if you are in Europe :p Get on!
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Felion on Sun, 26 March 2017, 07:19:08
Joining shortly!  (Prolly for 2 sets)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Sun, 26 March 2017, 15:02:43
Joining shortly!  (Prolly for 2 sets)

I love everyone who's joining the buy, but I just wanted to point out that I love everyone who purchases two sets twice as much ;)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: My_Thoughts on Mon, 27 March 2017, 04:12:43
need to work some money out and get an order in for this :)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Felion on Mon, 27 March 2017, 13:45:17
Joining shortly!  (Prolly for 2 sets)

I love everyone who's joining the buy, but I just wanted to point out that I love everyone who purchases two sets twice as much ;)
:( you only billed me for one set, so far... I Belive I order 2? (Felion1337, #00014)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Mon, 27 March 2017, 14:21:24
Joining shortly!  (Prolly for 2 sets)

I love everyone who's joining the buy, but I just wanted to point out that I love everyone who purchases two sets twice as much ;)
:( you only billed me for one set, so far... I Belive I order 2? (Felion1337, #00014)

Woops! I'll send a new one
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Petch on Tue, 28 March 2017, 06:41:59
Would have been perfect for me if that R2 1.5u had a backspace legend rather than being blank :(
And also  a #~ and \| keys for R1, for HHKB
Edit: aaaand `¬ R1 for UK
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Tue, 28 March 2017, 06:45:06
Would have been perfect for me if that R2 1.5u had a backspace legend rather than being blank :(
And also  a #~ key for R1, for HHKB
Since that key varies so much between layouts, we opted for the blank instead of having to add about 5 different keys.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: My_Thoughts on Tue, 28 March 2017, 09:21:30
Edit: aaaand `¬ R1 for UK

Do you ever use that key?
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Petch on Tue, 28 March 2017, 09:29:13
Edit: aaaand `¬ R1 for UK

Do you ever use that key?
Yes

I will just wait for a perfect set to come along one day. I'm fine with blanks and would rather have no legends than wrong/inconsistent ones  :)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:50:03
Update when update is due!

Currently, things aren't looking too good. We are at 29/150 kits, of which 15 are from buyers (17 counting myself), and 12 are for coverage and fixes. The majority of buyers are from Reddit, or have at least signed up with a a Reddit name. It's no secret that Reddit has the biggest buyer potential, but it's also hard to get seen there. The posts have gotten about 30-40 upvotes: two at launch for /r/mk and /r/mm, and then one a few days ago on Reddit again. I would have to guess a part of a successful Reddit GB post involves either having a wow-factor, or building on hype. This set isn't all that interesting if you just take a quick peek at it.

The GH thread has received decent enough reception to catch the eye of most potential GH buyers, anyhow. The DT post has had no replies yet, but is still lingering on the front page.

Proceeding from here, the set is going to need more exposure on Reddit to succeed, no doubt. However, I don't want to annoy the users or mods too much so I'll be somewhat conservative in posting there. If you have any suggestions, feel free to tell me! Also make sure to tell your eurokeyboardfriends ;)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: My_Thoughts on Wed, 29 March 2017, 03:45:13

Yes

I will just wait for a perfect set to come along one day. I'm fine with blanks and would rather have no legends than wrong/inconsistent ones  :)

Out of interest what do you use the symbols on it for?  I have no idea what ¬ is for and while ¦ looks like pipe, pipe is next to the left shift |

I'm intrigued :)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 29 March 2017, 04:03:47
I have no idea what ¬ is for
Negation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negation).
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: dfrib on Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:38:05
I will most likely (~90%) sign up for a set shortly; finally a chance to fix a complete ISO/SE setup for my wife's kb (not that she really cares, but we want what's best ... :D).

I'll just drive-by point out (as I totally missed the IC for this one) that I would have been even more thrilled if this drop ran in black legends on white base (but biased, I guess, towards all my existing mods that would run well with such alphas :) )
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Fullcream on Wed, 29 March 2017, 23:15:10
Really dissapointed with the lack of traction this is getting.

Everyone's so entertained by all those woohoo rainbow fun colours childs play toy keysets yet the best of the best conservative WoB with icon mods gets no respect.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Khers on Thu, 30 March 2017, 03:07:21
.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Thu, 30 March 2017, 13:38:11
Update when update is due!

Currently, things aren't looking too good. We are at 29/150 kits, of which 15 are from buyers (17 counting myself), and 12 are for coverage and fixes. The majority of buyers are from Reddit, or have at least signed up with a a Reddit name. It's no secret that Reddit has the biggest buyer potential, but it's also hard to get seen there. The posts have gotten about 30-40 upvotes: two at launch for /r/mk and /r/mm, and then one a few days ago on Reddit again. I would have to guess a part of a successful Reddit GB post involves either having a wow-factor, or building on hype. This set isn't all that interesting if you just take a quick peek at it.

The GH thread has received decent enough reception to catch the eye of most potential GH buyers, anyhow. The DT post has had no replies yet, but is still lingering on the front page.

Proceeding from here, the set is going to need more exposure on Reddit to succeed, no doubt. However, I don't want to annoy the users or mods too much so I'll be somewhat conservative in posting there. If you have any suggestions, feel free to tell me! Also make sure to tell your eurokeyboardfriends ;)
Have you thought about actively promoting the buy on the forums using the locales you're supporting with the set (e.g. Sweclockers in SE)? I'd be happy support the set, but I can't justify yet another WoB set...
I did look into SweClockers. However, they don't permit commercial posts and since I'm not an established member of that community, I certainly wouldn't want to try to play around their rules for the explicit sake of promoting a sale. I have no real clue where else to post about it outside the mech community, to be quite frank.

I will most likely (~90%) sign up for a set shortly; finally a chance to fix a complete ISO/SE setup for my wife's kb (not that she really cares, but we want what's best ... :D).

I'll just drive-by point out (as I totally missed the IC for this one) that I would have been even more thrilled if this drop ran in black legends on white base (but biased, I guess, towards all my existing mods that would run well with such alphas :) )
One of the reasons I opted not to is that black on white is a lot easier to make/acquire. You can get it from vintage boards, and dye-subbed PBT is another method of producing top quality keycaps. Black on white, on the contrary, usually comes with bad legends since double shots are the only way to make good black on white that won't wear down.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: xondat on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:43:47
How come the set doesn't support ISO-UK or ANSI natively? And why did that backspace make it? Those are the two major pitfalls for me.

I can't comment on the other languages, but the usage of blanks isn't the greatest when you want to sell a set specifically for having correct legends.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:49:54
How come the set doesn't support ISO-UK or ANSI natively? And why did that backspace make it? Those are the two major pitfalls for me.

I can't comment on the other languages, but the usage of blanks isn't the greatest when you want to sell a set specifically for having correct legends.

ISO UK is nearly perfectly supported. The only missing parts are the € on the 4 key and the top left key, which differs between every supported language. As such it was opted to just be blanked out in order to save on the costs. ANSI was an afterthought and is merely included for compatibility. The backspace was chosen in the IC and was never brought up, hence why it's in the GB. I understand a lot would prefer the arrow but that's just a bit late.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Thu, 30 March 2017, 15:13:23
Perhaps, for the future, we could do without the F-row (including Print, Pause and Scroll Lock) and maybe even the bottom row, for popular sets.

Anyhow, how many orders have been placed so far?
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Thu, 30 March 2017, 15:23:15


Perhaps, for the future, we could do without the F-row (including Print, Pause and Scroll Lock) and maybe even the bottom row, for popular sets.

Anyhow, how many orders have been placed so far?

If I get you correctly, that's basically an international kit. They're usually launched along the main group buy but fail to reach MOQ with a few exceptions like Carbon and Plum.

Sitting at 31 orders right now, so we're a fifth through!
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Thu, 30 March 2017, 15:50:50
If I get you correctly, that's basically an international kit. They're usually launched along the main group buy but fail to reach MOQ with a few exceptions like Carbon and Plum.
You're right on both accounts, International kits do fail when launched along with the main set, which happens to be already quite expensive. What I'm hinting here is to try and sell an international kit in at a later time, when people basically refills their wallets.

Sitting at 31 orders right now, so we're a fifth through!
With twenty more days to go, I guess that's an encouraging result.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 30 March 2017, 16:05:37
Orders will spike at the end, like any other GB.

I don't need (and moreover, can't afford) a set, so I'll sit this one out, but it looks like a goodun.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Fri, 31 March 2017, 01:13:22
Orders will spike at the end, like any other GB.

I don't need (and moreover, can't afford) a set, so I'll sit this one out, but it looks like a goodun.
I certainly hope you're right. Thank you! :)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: dorf on Fri, 31 March 2017, 03:07:59
We're at 31 now? How about hitting the bags together with t0mb3ry and his MD GB going on right now where he's offering a WoB?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-t0mb3ry-gmk-jamods-modifiers-kit
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: kevral on Fri, 31 March 2017, 10:33:19
I did look into SweClockers. However, they don't permit commercial posts and since I'm not an established member of that community, I certainly wouldn't want to try to play around their rules for the explicit sake of promoting a sale. I have no real clue where else to post about it outside the mech community, to be quite frank.

I have mentioned and linked this thread and a pic of the keyset in one of the threads on Sweclockers where the members are asking for advice on high quality swedish keycaps.

Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Fri, 31 March 2017, 13:04:29
We're at 31 now? How about hitting the bags together with t0mb3ry and his MD GB going on right now where he's offering a WoB?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-t0mb3ry-gmk-jamods-modifiers-kit
What do you mean exactly? Me to arrange a proxy for the MD group buy? That would not be beneficial to many buyers since Sweden has a pretty high VAT, 25%.

I did look into SweClockers. However, they don't permit commercial posts and since I'm not an established member of that community, I certainly wouldn't want to try to play around their rules for the explicit sake of promoting a sale. I have no real clue where else to post about it outside the mech community, to be quite frank.

I have mentioned and linked this thread and a pic of the keyset in one of the threads on Sweclockers where the members are asking for advice on high quality swedish keycaps.


Thank you! <3
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: dorf on Fri, 31 March 2017, 13:47:06
We're at 31 now? How about hitting the bags together with t0mb3ry and his MD GB going on right now where he's offering a WoB?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-t0mb3ry-gmk-jamods-modifiers-kit
What do you mean exactly? Me to arrange a proxy for the MD group buy? That would not be beneficial to many buyers since Sweden has a pretty high VAT, 25%.

Chances are that MD will actually reach MOQ and if we can combine it with your NorDeUK-set it will be a win-win. Profit will go to MD moneywise but hopefully we will all get our sets. As of now 31, of which you have 17, and we're going at 150...
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Fri, 31 March 2017, 13:49:09
We're at 31 now? How about hitting the bags together with t0mb3ry and his MD GB going on right now where he's offering a WoB?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-t0mb3ry-gmk-jamods-modifiers-kit
What do you mean exactly? Me to arrange a proxy for the MD group buy? That would not be beneficial to many buyers since Sweden has a pretty high VAT, 25%.

Chances are that MD will actually reach MOQ and if we can combine it with your NorDeUK-set it will be a win-win. Profit will go to MD moneywise but hopefully we will all get our sets. As of now 31, of which you have 17, and we're going at 150...
Then we are kind of back at the issue of high shipping and import taxation, which is a large reason international kits fail :(
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: dorf on Fri, 31 March 2017, 14:01:42
We're at 31 now? How about hitting the bags together with t0mb3ry and his MD GB going on right now where he's offering a WoB?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-t0mb3ry-gmk-jamods-modifiers-kit
What do you mean exactly? Me to arrange a proxy for the MD group buy? That would not be beneficial to many buyers since Sweden has a pretty high VAT, 25%.

Chances are that MD will actually reach MOQ and if we can combine it with your NorDeUK-set it will be a win-win. Profit will go to MD moneywise but hopefully we will all get our sets. As of now 31, of which you have 17, and we're going at 150...
Then we are kind of back at the issue of high shipping and import taxation, which is a large reason international kits fail :(

I hear you. I want this set to go thru. I want it really bad.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 04 April 2017, 03:17:26
Any update?
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Geroximo on Tue, 04 April 2017, 07:14:10
good luck with your gb, i would love to order if it was any other colorway but i just have so so many cherry white on black sets, but great to see someone pushing an iso set with a clear direction and excellent well thought out compatibility

i wish you every success

Well, plenty of people already told him in IC that WoB sucks, but he wouldn't listen.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: BunnyLake on Tue, 04 April 2017, 07:23:41
good luck with your gb, i would love to order if it was any other colorway but i just have so so many cherry white on black sets, but great to see someone pushing an iso set with a clear direction and excellent well thought out compatibility

i wish you every success

Well, plenty of people already told him in IC that WoB sucks, but he wouldn't listen.

At the end of the day, it is his gb, and should first and foremost be the set HE wants to make, essentially this is him putting his idea out on to the world and seeing of there are enough like minded people like him who want to make that dream a reality

I'm not sure when people decided all gbs should be made up of either the decisions of others or a community vote

Sure if you want to reach as many people as possible, you need to balance your vision with mass appeal and community input and that is certainly one way of doing things, however I think the best keysets, keyboards and original products from within this community come from a person who is just passionate about their idea and puts the care and time to make that a reality

I personally am not ordering this set because I have so many like it already, but I commend someone for trying to do this, and I hope it's a success, if it isn't, then it's back to the drawing board, either with another idea of his own or perhaps next time with community feedback, depending on how he decides to balance what he wants versus the ability to have enough other people join to make it a reality, compromises always have to happen, but it's down to the gb leader to decide how many compromises to make to make what is left of their vision a reality


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: pon10 on Tue, 04 April 2017, 10:08:51
.... https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gmk-white-on-black-custom-keycap-set
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Tue, 04 April 2017, 11:14:10
Any update?
Currently at 35 orders. Time to pop in on Reddit again! Interestingly enough, there have been no UK orders yet, and most orders have assigned GH as their platform. I think it's time to pop in on Reddit again, as well as see where brits could be reached.

.... https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gmk-white-on-black-custom-keycap-set

good luck with your gb, i would love to order if it was any other colorway but i just have so so many cherry white on black sets, but great to see someone pushing an iso set with a clear direction and excellent well thought out compatibility

i wish you every success

Well, plenty of people already told him in IC that WoB sucks, but he wouldn't listen.

I took a lot of input during the IC phase. One thing that was set in stone was that the set would be simple in order to have a broad appeal. Trying to pull something new off would risk the entire GB given the hit or miss of special colours. BoW was also considered but ultimately chosen to not be used given the wider availability of vintage BoW sets, as well as the fact that they're easily produced through dye-subs. WoB has absolutely no sets of high quality being produced recently for these languages.

good luck with your gb, i would love to order if it was any other colorway but i just have so so many cherry white on black sets, but great to see someone pushing an iso set with a clear direction and excellent well thought out compatibility

i wish you every success

Well, plenty of people already told him in IC that WoB sucks, but he wouldn't listen.

At the end of the day, it is his gb, and should first and foremost be the set HE wants to make, essentially this is him putting his idea out on to the world and seeing of there are enough like minded people like him who want to make that dream a reality

I'm not sure when people decided all gbs should be made up of either the decisions of others or a community vote

Sure if you want to reach as many people as possible, you need to balance your vision with mass appeal and community input and that is certainly one way of doing things, however I think the best keysets, keyboards and original products from within this community come from a person who is just passionate about their idea and puts the care and time to make that a reality

I personally am not ordering this set because I have so many like it already, but I commend someone for trying to do this, and I hope it's a success, if it isn't, then it's back to the drawing board, either with another idea of his own or perhaps next time with community feedback, depending on how he decides to balance what he wants versus the ability to have enough other people join to make it a reality, compromises always have to happen, but it's down to the gb leader to decide how many compromises to make to make what is left of their vision a reality


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you! It's my belief that this is simply the most effective way of making a successful GMK GB with europeans in mind.

.... https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gmk-white-on-black-custom-keycap-set
This is very unfortunate. While this kit does not support as many languages and will be subject to shipping and import taxes, it's cheaper for brits assuming taxation ≤25%. Their MOQ is higher, but so is their buyer base thanks to appeal to Americans.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: pon10 on Tue, 04 April 2017, 19:58:13
.... https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gmk-white-on-black-custom-keycap-set
Quote
This is very unfortunate. While this kit does not support as many languages and will be subject to shipping and import taxes, it's cheaper for brits assuming taxation ≤25%. Their MOQ is higher, but so is their buyer base thanks to appeal to Americans.

they wont let us have our layouts, damned cowboys..  :confused:

We can hope that some seeking international support and don't know about this buys gets redirected. i posted the gb link in a comment..
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: tedk on Wed, 05 April 2017, 05:35:31
try to contact gmk and mention the massdrop gb, maybe they lower the moq for us? hope that helps.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Wed, 05 April 2017, 05:38:43
try to contact gmk and mention the massdrop gb, maybe they lower the moq for us? hope that helps.
I'll definitely check with them if they're wiling to run it at fewer orders if we can at least get close to MOQ. They would probably not at 50, but there could be a chance at 100+ if I have to guess.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: ectoplasmatic on Wed, 05 April 2017, 06:48:34
I'm a UK based ANSI user, and saw your post on Reddit today -- I have no use for all the euro compatibility, but would like to support this and also prefer your icon legends on modifiers as opposed to the text legends on modifiers on the MD group buy. Would I be able to cover a 60% ANSI set up with winkeyless 1.5 x 1.5 x 7 x 1.5 x 1.5 bottom row? I'll have another look at the first post if this is obvious... Thanks!
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: ectoplasmatic on Wed, 05 April 2017, 06:53:30
I'm a UK based ANSI user, and saw your post on Reddit today -- I have no use for all the euro compatibility, but would like to support this and also prefer your icon legends on modifiers as opposed to the text legends on modifiers on the MD group buy. Would I be able to cover a 60% ANSI set up with winkeyless 1.5 x 1.5 x 7 x 1.5 x 1.5 bottom row? I'll have another look at the first post if this is obvious... Thanks!

Well, 5 mins looking at the front page answered my question... haha. Looks like I would have no problem.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Liocer on Wed, 05 April 2017, 14:36:17
Really hope you hit MOQ on this, I've spent nearly all of my money so I can't join in but good luck :)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Wed, 05 April 2017, 14:58:46
Really hope you hit MOQ on this, I've spent nearly all of my money so I can't join in but good luck :)
Thank you! 😊
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Tue, 11 April 2017, 06:44:55
Weekly update!

No new orders in a week. Promotion directed to Brits has not worked out great; despite the posts in the standard communities as well as /r/MechanicalKeyboardsUK and a Facebook post at launch, there's only one order to Great Britain so far. I would probably attribute this to Originative having been available to them for a long time in addition to MD's GB also currently running and being seen as the more reliable option. Nevertheless, if we can reach at least a hundred orders, then I'd say it's at least worth asking GMK. I'll launch a few last promotional posts and we'll see how it turns out.

Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: My_Thoughts on Tue, 11 April 2017, 07:48:24
The White on Black set on massdrop also seems to be having problems meeting MOQ
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Mechboards on Tue, 11 April 2017, 08:24:41
I'll place a post on the website if you like promoting the keyset?
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Tue, 11 April 2017, 08:26:18
I'll place a post on the website if you like promoting the keyset?

That would be very appreciated, thank you! :)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Mechboards on Tue, 11 April 2017, 08:53:03

That would be very appreciated, thank you! :)

https://mechboards.co.uk/gmk-nordeuk/

https://twitter.com/MechBoardsUK/status/851795404731682816
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Tweets on Tue, 11 April 2017, 09:32:30
I'd be that one UK buyer, eh?

Not a fan of the Massdrop (which is basically identical to the Originative) flavour, since it's missing some of the ISO-UK legends.

Really hope this clears MOQ, because damn, I've been looking for a WoB ISO-UK, and I'd love to try out something from GMK - I find PBT a pain to keep clean thanks to my hands sweating so much compared to most peoples', but I dislike how thin this current ABS set feels.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 11 April 2017, 12:56:35
If this fails, god forbids, I truly hope it's a matter of colour scheme. I would really like to see more NorDeUK sets in the (near) future.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: dorf on Tue, 11 April 2017, 18:07:37
Weekly update!

No new orders in a week. Promotion directed to Brits has not worked out great; despite the posts in the standard communities as well as /r/MechanicalKeyboardsUK and a Facebook post at launch, there's only one order to Great Britain so far. I would probably attribute this to Originative having been available to them for a long time in addition to MD's GB also currently running and being seen as the more reliable option. Nevertheless, if we can reach at least a hundred orders, then I'd say it's at least worth asking GMK. I'll launch a few last promotional posts and we'll see how it turns out.

Give it a shot anyway! I want this!!
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: dorf on Thu, 13 April 2017, 02:43:37
So MD just notified that GB was unsuccessful. Let's hope people find their way here.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Thu, 13 April 2017, 09:33:18
Closing in on the end date! The last few posts have gone up and I've asked a few vendors to sign up for sets, now awaiting responses. Mykeyboard.eu has signed up for 10 :)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: beltet on Thu, 13 April 2017, 09:33:59
I've totally missed this GB. Joining!
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: ramnes on Thu, 13 April 2017, 10:55:45
Anyone interested in selling me just the 1.5u bottom row when this arrives? :)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: dorf on Sun, 16 April 2017, 13:36:08
Is 47/150 the current count?
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Mon, 17 April 2017, 04:09:38
Is 47/150 the current count?

49 as of now. However, I'm cancelling the GB now. I'll be publishing some thoughts, stats, and whatnot in a while. I'll clean up first though, cancelling the invoices and all that.

Thanks for joining in, everyone! :)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Tweets on Mon, 17 April 2017, 04:55:32
Damn, it's a shame to see nothing came of it, though not unexpected by any means.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: dorf on Mon, 17 April 2017, 05:09:38
I really wanted this.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Mon, 17 April 2017, 09:23:51
Some stats

[attach=1]
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Mon, 17 April 2017, 10:43:03
I'm surprised how bad it sold on geekhack. I truly hope it's only a matter of colour scheme.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: dfrib on Mon, 17 April 2017, 14:10:25
Thanks for the statistics.

I'm also surprised at the low participation rate from geekhack members. Furthermore surprised that there were not a single Finnish participant; isn't the common .fi ISO layout the same as for .se? Maybe looking into where to announce .fi-compatable highend keysets to the .fi market could be future food for thought for whomever makes yet another try at a set aimed for this market.

Nice try and good work with the GB nonetheless!

If you/anyone else ever feel renewed inspiration to try out another GMK NorDeUK set (BoW/WoB/...), here's at least one guaranteed participant :)
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 18 April 2017, 00:01:06
I'm surprised how bad it sold on geekhack. I truly hope it's only a matter of colour scheme.

This is tradition for supercompatible sets like this.

All the ISO users complain and complain, but never put their money where their mouth is. That's why so many people just add and ISO shift/enter and some blanks to their GB and call it there.

WoB probably had the best chance of succeeding for a set like this. A beige or a dolch-type colorway might've also done well, but the fact is I've never seen a supercompatible ISO kit sell well in any GB.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 18 April 2017, 04:12:50
I'm surprised how bad it sold on geekhack. I truly hope it's only a matter of colour scheme.

This is tradition for supercompatible sets like this.

All the ISO users complain and complain, but never put their money where their mouth is. That's why so many people just add and ISO shift/enter and some blanks to their GB and call it there.

WoB probably had the best chance of succeeding for a set like this. A beige or a dolch-type colorway might've also done well, but the fact is I've never seen a supercompatible ISO kit sell well in any GB.
I totally understand this argument in an ANSI set, but this was a specific ISO group buy. I didn't expect it to sell thousands but at least a hundred of sets. Again, I hope next attempt is successful.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: pomk on Tue, 18 April 2017, 04:20:15
Thanks for the statistics.

I'm also surprised at the low participation rate from geekhack members. Furthermore surprised that there were not a single Finnish participant; isn't the common .fi ISO layout the same as for .se? Maybe looking into where to announce .fi-compatable highend keysets to the .fi market could be future food for thought for whomever makes yet another try at a set aimed for this market.

Nice try and good work with the GB nonetheless!

If you/anyone else ever feel renewed inspiration to try out another GMK NorDeUK set (BoW/WoB/...), here's at least one guaranteed participant :)
I would have bought 5 sets, if only it covered the FI layout fully :(
I mentioned my stance in the IC, but the OP thought it more appropriate to have ansi/uk/6u bottom row etc. Looking at the stats, there seems to be about two people who would use the ansi enter and two uk users. Seems to me that adding 17 keys (of which two are 2,25U if that matters) just for this crowd might not be the sanest solution.

I feel like I, or someone else, should try a similar set to this and see how far it would get. Fully covering FI SE DK DE, getting rid of ansi, 6u bottom row and possibly the 7u bottom row options, using a different backspace and selling for 80 to 90€ inc. VAT.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 18 April 2017, 05:00:48
if only it covered the FI layout fully
[...]
getting rid of ansi, 6u bottom row and possibly the 7u bottom row options
Dropping support for modifiers would actually make it an international conversion kit which I would totally be interested in, if it was made for popular colour schemes like Skeletor and the upcoming Nautilus and Oblivion.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: b9nign on Tue, 18 April 2017, 05:13:53
All the ISO users complain and complain, but never put their money where their mouth is.
Should people just splash 140€ for this GB out of solidarity or something? To "support" this European GB? Even the Massdrop WoB failed, because it's just not a very exciting keyset. Give a European GB with Plum or something and I'm first in line.
WoB probably had the best chance of succeeding for a set like this. A beige or a dolch-type colorway might've also done well, but the fact is I've never seen a supercompatible ISO kit sell well in any GB.
GMK Dolch ISO-DE was just shipped out to its buyers, it was a GB on a German forum (not even a MK community, just a general Tech/Computer forum). Other than that, there are just not many attempts to run a GB like that.

Also another thing I noticed... the GB got barely any visibility on r/mk and r/mm. You can't just create 2-3 threads there in the span of *weeks* and expect people to see it. A day after creating a thread, it's somewhere on page 5 or 10 and no one sees it. For example, when GMK Coniferous was struggling a couple of weeks ago, threads promoting it were created daily on r/mk and r/mm. Just an observation.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: pomk on Tue, 18 April 2017, 05:23:45
if only it covered the FI layout fully
[...]
getting rid of ansi, 6u bottom row and possibly the 7u bottom row options
Dropping support for modifiers would actually make it an international conversion kit which I would totally be interested in, if it was made for popular colour schemes like Skeletor and the upcoming Nautilus and Oblivion.
I wouldn't drop all mods, makes no sense to do a conversion kit of 50€ for a 170€ set that you cannot buy anymore with moq of 150, when you could just sell the same set with the conversion applied for a lot less. If things are kept in europe and everything is done at a minimal profit, we can offer stuff at half the price. For example the plum set + international kit was a total of 230€ shipped and taxed. If we can settle on a set with slightly less coverage and get rid of ansi-uk, we could sell the same thing for about 100€.

If you are talking about full international alphas, then it might make sense, as you could just buy some bungaloo set to accompany it and be done with it.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 18 April 2017, 06:09:35
I wouldn't drop all mods, makes no sense to do a conversion kit of 50€ for a 170€ set that you cannot buy anymore with moq of 150, when you could just sell the same set with the conversion applied for a lot less. If things are kept in europe and everything is done at a minimal profit, we can offer stuff at half the price. For example the plum set + international kit was a total of 230€ shipped and taxed. If we can settle on a set with slightly less coverage and get rid of ansi-uk, we could sell the same thing for about 100€.

If you are talking about full international alphas, then it might make sense, as you could just buy some bungaloo set to accompany it and be done with it.
You got a point there but, again, dropping some mods might work, but then you need to decide on which ones you wanna get rid of and, ultimately some, people would be unhappy.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Petch on Tue, 18 April 2017, 06:21:16
I'm surprised how bad it sold on geekhack. I truly hope it's only a matter of colour scheme.

This is tradition for supercompatible sets like this.

All the ISO users complain and complain, but never put their money where their mouth is. That's why so many people just add and ISO shift/enter and some blanks to their GB and call it there.

WoB probably had the best chance of succeeding for a set like this. A beige or a dolch-type colorway might've also done well, but the fact is I've never seen a supercompatible ISO kit sell well in any GB.

I wouldn't call it super compatible, most ANSI sets with a $10 UK addon are more compatible for ISO-UK (in a plethora of layouts) than this set was
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: pomk on Tue, 18 April 2017, 08:26:49
I wouldn't drop all mods, makes no sense to do a conversion kit of 50€ for a 170€ set that you cannot buy anymore with moq of 150, when you could just sell the same set with the conversion applied for a lot less. If things are kept in europe and everything is done at a minimal profit, we can offer stuff at half the price. For example the plum set + international kit was a total of 230€ shipped and taxed. If we can settle on a set with slightly less coverage and get rid of ansi-uk, we could sell the same thing for about 100€.

If you are talking about full international alphas, then it might make sense, as you could just buy some bungaloo set to accompany it and be done with it.
You got a point there but, again, dropping some mods might work, but then you need to decide on which ones you wanna get rid of and, ultimately some, people would be unhappy.
Yes, definitely. But starting from basics with full coverage of some locales I think would be good. I also think that people might buy in even if it does not support all possible layouts if the price point is kept extremely low (80-90€ inc. VAT). A low price would also make it feasible for supporters to buy multiple sets while not spending more than they usually do for just a single set.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 18 April 2017, 08:38:21
I also think that people might buy in even if it does not support all possible layouts if the price point is kept extremely low (80-90€ inc. VAT). A low price would also make it feasible for supporters to buy multiple sets while not spending more than they usually do for just a single set.
If a full set at the price point is even possible, then yes, I believe it's worth dropping some mods.
We'll know when it happens.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: My_Thoughts on Tue, 18 April 2017, 08:48:33

All the ISO users complain and complain, but never put their money where their mouth is. That's why so many people just add and ISO shift/enter and some blanks to their GB and call it there.


It has a lot to do with White on Black.  WoB failed to hit MOQ on massdrop. People are not going to spend £100+ on WoB. 

Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Krakob on Tue, 18 April 2017, 15:03:43
Haven't had time to reply or make a write-up yet, been quite busy. Sorry!
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Felion on Fri, 21 April 2017, 08:47:37
Silver-lining: Now I can afford one dev/tty MT3-set :/ (w/ an international kit) (but thats only b/c I had ordered 2 WOB-sets)...

I'm sad to see this one "fail" Krakob! But thank you for trying and thank you for the work you put in.

Hopefully we will see this again some day :)

P.S. 2nd silver-lining: I made 19 SEK on this due to currency-fluctuations ;) D.S
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 26 April 2017, 05:20:51
Don't be a stranger Krakob, I'll still support you.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: pon10 on Wed, 26 April 2017, 06:27:14
We are here! should we do a new IC? would love to help out in anyway
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK
Post by: Geroximo on Thu, 27 April 2017, 18:13:34

All the ISO users complain and complain, but never put their money where their mouth is. That's why so many people just add and ISO shift/enter and some blanks to their GB and call it there.


It has a lot to do with White on Black.  WoB failed to hit MOQ on massdrop. People are not going to spend £100+ on WoB.

Exactly. When spending so much money you expect something better than goddamn WoB.
GMK Dolch ISO-DE (german GB) hit MOQ because it's such a nice and classic color-scheme. I bought 2 sets of it.
I was totaly ready to support this ISO GB, but dropped out as soon as OP said it was going to be WoB.
Title: Postmortem
Post by: Krakob on Fri, 28 April 2017, 03:38:45
Pardon the delay. Between IRL obligations, other community related things, and forgetfulness I postponed this writeup far too much.

Let's talk kit design.

* Colours: a bit of a miss, the white should've been CP instead of WS1 in order to match vintage sets.
* Colours, again: a lot of people just don't like WoB. An interesting design might be a better choice, but also requires some talent to pull off.
* Backspace legend: I failed to look into this sufficiently and as a result it was a pretty big turnoff for a lot of people.
* Incomplete legends: while I tried to address this as well as I could, many stated that they were not interested because of missing legends.
* Numpad: I think only one or two people raised their concerns about this. Nevertheless it may have lost some buyers. It would've presumably raised the price by more than €10 (assuming linear pricing, which is probably not quite correct).
* Non-covered languages: there were of course a decent few people who weren't buying because their locale was not covered. I believe this was primarily French. Fully covering it would've added somewhere around 15 keys, I believe.

These are the issues I found in the design itself. Most of it was a matter of compromise or taste, but it's important to know what poeple buy or don't buy.

Another significant factor was by all means the pricing. I was hoping the kit would be less than €125 shipped, but between taxes and margins, this was plain impossible. Sweden is simply an expensive county and even with the cheapest option, it was not cheaper than shipping from the US. As for the VAT, it was either buying as a consumer from GMK at 19% or buying as a Swedish company at 25%. A cheaper method would be basing the GB in a country with a lower VAT. Which ones these are, I'm not quite sure but that's easy to look up. Another way would be using dubious means in non-European countries but this would probably be illegal and quite the pain to pull off.

As for marketing, most people agreed that Reddit is the biggest source of buyers for any GB. However, this did not seem to ring true for NorDeUK. While I feel the coverage on GH and DT was sufficient, no Reddit post managed to get more than about 50 upvotes. Presumably, a lot of redditors just don't care a lot about simple sets like this. The appeal is too limited to even get the upvotes required in order to make it visible to enough people who may be interested. I certainly could've been more aggressive in the marketing, but there's also the matter of respecting the community. Reddit has its 10:1 guideline, meaning that for every self promotional submission, you should also have ten non-promotional submissions. I don't think I actually abided this rule, I just posted approx. once per week.

Lastly, the buyer locations weren't quite as expected. While the Nordic countries pulled in a good amount of buyers, Germans and Brits were underrepresented. This may be explained by the better availability of vintage sets, as well as GMK Originative in the case of Brits. With OCO putting on a sale in order to compete with Massdrop, they were basically at the same price as NorDeUK and without any risk involved.

Getting caught in the crossfire between Massdrop and Originative was very unfortunate, but I don't believe it affected us enough to change the outcome of the GB. Massdrop's failure was pretty clear all along with the 250 MOQ. Originative presumably (and honestly, I'd say hopefully because I want everybody to live the WoB memedream) cost us a few British buyers, but not any significant amounts.

That's pretty much all I can think of. So, what now?

If you are looking for a substitute:
* If you want GMK, look out for the big drops on Massdrop like Carbon and Plum. They have succeeded with their international kits and are probably your best bet for GMK right now.
* A less pricey option would be getting Varmillo keycaps. They're dye subbed PBT and legend says that you can get one by just popping them a mail. Supposedly almost but not quite Gateron PBT quality.
* Speaking of Gateron PBT, Gateron caps, be it blank or legended, are amazing quality for an amazing price. Most notable is NPKC, who sell a kit as NPKC blank Cherry profile keycaps for about €30 on Aliexpress. UK Keycaps has stocked them from time to time as well but it has been marked as 'Coming soon' for several months now, so I wouldn't count on it.
* I would also like to discourage buying from Signature Plastics, given that they have no regards for the European community. They have a contract with Massdrop resulting in them charging any other buyer far more, and when purchasing directly from PMK, they take a ridiculous shipping price and do not declare it any cheaper.

If you're wondering what happens to NorDeUK:
I personally won't be pursuing another group buy, at least not now. I do encourage those who want to to pick it up though. Learn from my mistakes and make it happen! I will be working on some other projects, but nothing concrete yet, so no announcements.

Thank you for participating and reading,
Jakob :cool:
Title: Re: Postmortem
Post by: TalkingTree on Fri, 28 April 2017, 04:12:43
Another way would be using dubious means in non-European countries but this would probably be illegal and quite the pain to pull off.
Not illegal per se but tricky, because the thin line is crossed when the GB handler ships out goods underdeclared. Furthermore, since this is basically an european group buy, we would need a GB handler who lives in an european country outside the EU, such as EFTA states, balkan countries or microstates. This pretty much narrows the options down to Norway.

If you are looking for a substitute:
[...]
One other option is JTK, they have greatly improved their tooling and products and their stuff cost significantly less than GMK and the Cherry profile they use could be mixed with actual OG Cherry sets or GMK's.

I personally won't be pursuing another group buy, at least not now.
That's sad but totally understandable. The GB failed but you actually tried and did a good job. I really hope you change your mind.
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK (Closed; postmortem inside)
Post by: mik1 on Mon, 12 November 2018, 10:51:17
Hi Krakob, I have hunted the whole planet for a Swedish layout (aka "NorDe") key cap set that's white on black, doubleshot, with blank Windows keys.

I would be the first to buy 2-3 sets of your key caps. Price is not an issue, I can pay any amount per set, pain point would be around 200-300 EUR.

Is there any chance that you will make it?
Title: Re: [GB] GMK NorDeUK (Closed; postmortem inside)
Post by: Daggerfall on Tue, 13 November 2018, 02:00:29
Just dropped by to give props and thank you for the ISO-love. Hope everything went well!