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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: limitz on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:56:47

Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:56:47
Let's hear them.

I'll start off.

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

2. I think HHKB boards are overrated, and the layout dumber than a Poker. I think custom MX, HHKB layout boards are just as stupid (Viper, Happy).

3. I think Topre is overrated, and lower quality than MX (despite the higher price) as the board tends to get stiffer over time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: munch on Thu, 06 November 2014, 23:06:07
3 and 2 I mostly agree with... but the layout of HHKB is sort of personal preference. I personally don't like it.
60% boards + numpad is the way to go in regards to #1 IMO. then you get arrow keys + other keys for productivity, and numbers if you are into that.
and you can just put it away if you need the space more. but the main reason I guess is because I have my mouse + kb quite close to one another, and prefer space on the right side of the kb.
so it just feels nicer on the left side.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fragil1ty on Thu, 06 November 2014, 23:15:30
3 and 2 I mostly agree with... but the layout of HHKB is sort of personal preference. I personally don't like it.
60% boards + numpad is the way to go in regards to #1 IMO. then you get arrow keys + other keys for productivity, and numbers if you are into that.
and you can just put it away if you need the space more. but the main reason I guess is because I have my mouse + kb quite close to one another, and prefer space on the right side of the kb.
so it just feels nicer on the left side.


1. I cannot stand 60% boards either, I don't think they look attractive what so ever and although using a HHKB was an enjoyable experience, I couldn't ever use it as my daily driver.


2. I don't like TKL boards, I think they're too big, but I'm currently forcing myself to change because of bad past experiences with 75% boards.


3. I don't think the HHKB is over-rated per say, but I do think they're a bit overpriced.


4. I cannot stand blank keycaps, I think they are a waste of money and just do not look that appealing/attractive to me. (I'm currently using Leopold stealth keys, side printed keycaps essentially and I can only just tolerate using these).


5. I think a lot of these esc key replacements, the gas masks, the helmets and all that kind of stuff are just repulsive and why someone would want to put that on their keyboard in the first place is beyond me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 06 November 2014, 23:25:43
Yes, the HHKB layout is definitely a personal preference. It's not for everyone. While I love the layout, some people can never get used to it.

But as to Topre getting stiffer over time, what evidence do you have of that happening? Have you used a Topre over a period of years and measured the force curve over a long time span?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keymaster on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:09:29
60% keyboards aren't practical, even with the programmable layers. I liken it to people who build their linux distros "from the ground up". They're just senselessly creating a rabbit hole of unnecessary work.

Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

Any mixing of keycap sets or keycap material is blasphemous. Also, the keyboards with entire rows of artisan keycaps. Offenders should be taken out and shot.

Topre is not overrated. 55g feels delicious as ****, but they could get tiresome when using for hours on end.



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: connorelsea on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:17:00
Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

And art is just chemicals on a canvas!  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:43:10

I had some more, but they're less about keyboards and more about how people treat keyboards and caps.  And this is unpopular opinions, so I expect a fair amount of disagreement.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Puddsy on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:49:30
I hate the HHKB
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:54:36
1. Just about every keycap set designed on pimpmykeyboard is ugly. When I see pictures of these keycaps on someones keyboards looks even worse.

2. SA keyset is horrible to type on and looks horrible.

3. I think model M and any other so called "vintage" keyboard is stupid.

4. If you think 60% keyboards are not practical well 40% are even worse. They seem like a major handicap.

5. I hate gamer looking or branded keyboards (razer, corsair, logitech, ect.)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:55:02
traditional qwerty sgg :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheesedgrate on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:56:42
Not a huge fan of the Vader Clack.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: connorelsea on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:57:50
3D printed caps look bad. Topre switches are glorified rubber domes. The Poker 2 is really ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: calvinhousecat on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:18:56
Filco and Das are stupidly overpriced.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:31:50
Wow, what a hatefest. Let's join in.  ;)

HHKB layout - not for me, I couldn't get used that arrow layout.
Topre - also not for me, I don't like the feeling and I don't like that I can't change the feeling through mods. I think all Topre boards are overpriced. From a production perspective, MX boards require more work since the switches and diodes need to be soldered. So the extra cost is not justified, IMHO.
Model M - okay, but just okay, F is better. 2KRO is a bit of a deal breaker - membranes, yuck. Personally still prefer MX ErgoClears, though.
75% boards - why bother, you have to get used to a really funky layout and it's impossible to find replacement keycap sets. Still have to move your hand to reach F keys and arrows, may as well stick with TKL.

On the other hand:

60% boards - love them, especially when they are fully programmable like the GON NerD60 or have a really well designed Fn layer like the original Pure. Poker II style programmability is acceptable if you don't mind about the Fn and Pn key placement. Not having to move your hands so much to access F keys, arrows, edits, etc can be a boon to productivity if the Fn layer suits you and you take a little time to get used to it.
SA profile - love it, currently my favourite with Cherry coming 2nd.
Gaming boards - I'm allergic to the "gamer" marketing speak and overhype, but I'd consider a "gamer" board if it had all the features I wanted at a decent price and was made by a company with a good track record for reliability and support.
Smooth keycaps - I don't mind them, but it's nicer if I've worn them down myself. Gives a board some character, I like to see well-used products.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tribade on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:35:53
Gaming-branded keyboards are terrible.  Poker 2 looks terrible and I don't like the layout (I do like the HHKB layout though...I don't know I guess I'm weird).  Ducky/Das/Max keyboards are all ugly as sin.  As are Datamancer keyboards.  Model Ms are great keyboards, but they're ugly, and that includes SSKs and industrial versions of both.  75% boards are the worst form factor I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: neun_sechs_zwei on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:47:10
Why don't more keyboard nerds use Kinesises?

Looking forward to my first 60%. I use arrow keys often enough, especially highlighting text with modifier keys in regular use, that I wonder what I'll do. Probably try WASD on left hand.

Or use the mouse I guess. (double-click + drag to select words is awfully fast)

There are also ctrl-A,E,T,N,P and other ways of moving around.

And editors that don't use arrow keys. (But dammit if you can't get a mouse working with them in this day and age...)

Is that all unpopular enough? ha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Grim Fandango on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:48:18
1. I think that Cherry MX switches are much too loud to be of any real use to me, and am surprised so few other people feel like this (if I can't use it at work or in the living room, there is no point in having them).

2. I do not like the look of keyboards with many colors and many artisan keycaps.

3. I do not like the layout of the HHKB or practically any <80% keyboard. I think they look great but am not interested in using them (bought one for the looks but was frustrated with it)

4. Numpad layers on tenkeyless are underrated and are something I consider an essential feature that is often ignored. If you get used to it, it as as effective as having a numpad, yet people call it useless all the time.

5. I do not get how anyone can like blank keycaps. I am extremely comfortable typing anything without legends. However, take my fingers of the home-row and I have no clue. Which means that typing while eating a sandwich for example, is a hassle. I figure that if that goes for me, there is a good chance that this is true for others regardless of them being able to touch type any symbol or number on the keyboard.

6. I love the feel of Topre and easily prefer them over any Cherry MX even if they are overpriced. Rubber-dome is like a bad word, but personally I do not care as much (or at all) about the exact mechanic as I care about how it feels.

7. I like the feel of smooth shiny ABS better than PBT

8. I do not see the point of white or beige ABS cases as they will look like crap (discoloration) in just a few years.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:58:44
1. abs keys aren't worth buying

2. hhkb layout is beyond stupid retarded.  especially the ctrl key that should actually be a backspace
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: neun_sechs_zwei on Fri, 07 November 2014, 02:08:19
I also think Poker looks terrible... if you're gonna put arrow keys in a 60% board what's the point?  (edit... er, whatever, the other one with the arrow keys)

Along the same lines... ctrl-alt-win/win-alt-pc-ctrl is a waste of space. Bottom row filled out with 1.25X keys is ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AuRinBei on Fri, 07 November 2014, 02:42:29
Topre is overrated as hell, especially on GH. The main issue is that they are so freaking inconsistent. Two supposedly identical boards can feel totally different, and even switches on the same board can feel totally different. I have a 40g switch on my 55g board. What the **** is that ****? This thing cost over $200, and you can't get the tolerance below +/- 15g? I've had 3 Topre boards, and all have had this problem. Also, despite the superior plunger design, the keycap stems aren't as uniform as in most MX keycaps. This leads to some keys sounding different on the upstroke. Topre keyboards still sexy as hell though.

Browns are the worst switch. They are just awful. I guess that opinion is not that unpopular around here though.

I don't get how a 45-50g actuation force became the standard weight that everyone wants. I can't not bottom out on anything that light. I wish they made a 75g Topre.

ABS is totally worthless outside of novelty keycaps. I don't get how anyone can try PBT or POM and then stand going back to ABS. I'm not interested in 99% of group buys because they're all ABS.

DSA profile is the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my life. Not keycap profile, thing.

Mechanical keyboards aren't that much more durable than rubber domes. Every rubber dome I have has seen more use than any of my mechanical keyboards, and they all work fine. In fact, most rubber dome keyboards have better keycaps than most stock mechanical keyboards.

Scissor switches are great. I prefer them for gaming to anything other than MX Blacks. They are more tactile than Browns. I prefer laptop "chiclet" style keyboards to any other non-mechanical.

Brobots are 10x cooler than Clacks.

I will not put a set of keycaps on my keyboard if the "capslock" key says capslock. That isn't where capslock goes, that's where control goes, and anything that says different is a lie. Vague symbols are acceptable.

Windows keys are borderline essential to if you use windows. I have never hit it while playing games either, probably because my pinky has no reason to be down there because that's not where control is.

Fullsize keyboards are useless. Get a numpad and put it on the left. No functionality is lost, and you can now operate arrow keys and number keys at the same time easily.

Every keyboard should have a function key on the left hand bottom row that turns WASD into arrow keys. The bottom row should be windows, function, alt. Caps should be fn+ctrl.

The FC660C looks baller as hell. One of the best looking keyboards I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ajx on Fri, 07 November 2014, 02:46:51
I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software, yes i can call it unpractical
Form my use, i find them perfect if manufacturer implemented logical and accessible dedicated arrows
The winners are Pure Pro, Pure,  FC660C, Minila, each one of them has some downsides especially for the layout (most of them has non standard layout)
Poker II is really popular despite of lacking logical dedicated arrows but people focus more on its standard layout/overall build though
Plus being fully programmable can help into their success
But its came in last in my own preference:
- 60% is sort of compromise between accessibility and compactness, Sacrificing either numpad or F-keys could be acceptable for some people, but going over all these limitations, nah i can't
Lets me take an example, i get used to type on my Pure, of course, always enabling fn key for numbers keys or F-keys would irritate me a bit, but i can access arrows keys through fn+spacebar which enable for good these arrows keys (fn+space again=disabled)
Its a sort of compromise for me
Minila, FC660C, Pure Pro owners don't even need to pay attention into it, they have directly arrows keys like any TKL
To sum up, a good 60% keyboard certainly needs to have logical and accessible arrows keys which isnt the case of Poker II
My dreamed 60% would be a mix of Poker II build and Pure/Pure Pro arrows keys (not really fan of Pure Pro layout but it has arrows keys)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 07 November 2014, 03:34:17
I forgot to mention:

Standard QWERTY layout keyboards in general - horizontal stagger design is to allow levers to reach the hammer mechanism. QWERTY character layout is to prevent neighbouring keys being pressed too rapidly in succession and jamming the gravity returned hammers.... Oh wait.. WE DON'T HAVE THESE THINGS ANY MORE. Yet the design has persisted, due to being familiar. It's not logical, it's not comfortable or ergonomic, it's not even symmetrical or aesthetic. The ONLY reason to use it is familiarity. When the only reason you still do something a certain way is tradition, it's time to make a change, based on more current requirements.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jevvix on Fri, 07 November 2014, 04:37:54
1. MX Brown/clear switches are worse than linear switches, and that's saying a lot because...
2. Linear switches are an unpleasant experience and they shouldn't exist.
3. Topre is overpriced and over hyped.
4. ABS as a keycap material is fine, even more so if they're doubleshot.
5. Full sized keyboards are the best.
6. "They don't make them like they used to." The standard build quality on vintage keyboards is better than 95% of the crap being mass produced today.
7. I'd rather have a CMStorm QFR than your $800 Korean TLK 'custom' riced-out kawaii whatever.

Bring on the hate ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 07:03:49
1. Dedicated arrow keys are essential.
2. Numpad is essential.
3. Mouse/keyboard problems exist because of the mouse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 07:19:05
SA sucks. I freaking hate it.
People say the following:
"It's the retro bomb!", "It's the future of profiles" pick one, you can't have both
"It looks awesome"...except on 40% or 60% boards or even larger boards with low profile cases.  That's a lot of keyboards.
"It's ergonomically superior"...except for all of the people who type slower on it, experience more finger fatigue, or just generally find typing on it annoying and unpleasant. Also theories abound on it actually being intended for angled beam springs and not even for the 0 degree mounted MX switches we are putting them on.
"This GB will be SA"...just like the last 10.  Oh yay my favorite 5 words.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: skuko on Fri, 07 November 2014, 07:46:03
yeah i don't like SA either.

i tried the filco sphericals and had to remove them, because i started having wrist pains due to the unnatural angle, because the caps are too damn high :)

a wrist rest partially alleviates this, but it's just additional clutter on the table i don't really need, so i'll stick to my cherry profile thick PBT caps without the need of a wristrest.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 07 November 2014, 07:48:37
Cherry G80s are amazing to type on

Flex due to no plate or a bendy plate isn't always a bad thing

Dedicated arrow keys are absolutely necessary
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Roibhilin on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:10:38
- people often forget that.
coffee is just bean water. tea is just leaf water
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:24:01
1. DSA is terrible. I hate using it, and won't buy from any group buys with DSA profile.

2. SA profile (sculptured, not uniform) is fun! They are my second favorite, after Cherry Corp or GMK thick ABS.

3. PBT is all hype. I prefer thick ABS by a wide margin. I can use PBT, of course, but I prefer thick ABS. Much, much prefer double shot ABS over dyesub PBT.

4. ErgoClears are just okay, but stock clears are better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:34:35
Where to begin..

1. I hate the HHKB. Way too over priced and over hyped.
2. A board decorated with artisan caps just looks terrible and ugly.
3. Artisan caps in general. Clacks just look ugly.
4. Realforce keyboards look terrible, every single one of them.
5. People going crazy for switch stickers. Doesn't even make a noticeable difference.
6. I can't stand full sized keyboards.
7. 40% boards are just a stupid impractical phase that will pass soon.
8. I hate the Miami look.
9. People who put a bunch of random color caps on their boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:47:26
OK, I'll just rehash the same things I have been saying on this site:

1) Matrix keyboards are fun
2) 1x spacebars are the most space efficient and user friendly
3) relegendables are vital for people who want to try different layouts
4) we need Matrix layout Model Fs
5) Topre is overpriced
6) linear switches are terrible
7) brobots, clacks, gummyrots and whatever weird artisan keycaps are worthless because they bring no utility and interfere with switch actuation
8) expensive Korean customs have no intrinsic superiority to unfashionable keyboard manufacturers
9) that winkeyless layout with 7x spacebar is inferior to a modern layout with win keys and other keys (remember, it is very easy to use autohotkey to map your winkeys to do something else, so why not, that's exactly what I do!)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:57:49
1. The number pad is a good thing, and nice to have as part of the keyboard rather than a standalone unit.
2. Likewise, the full size layout is actually quite nice.
3. Someone should remake some version of the old Key Track trackball keyboard layout: full size with trackball in place of the arrow keys, arrow keys like laptop mouse buttons built into the trackball surround, real mouse buttons at the bottom.
4. Switch covers for enhanced protection against liquids and debris are an awesome feature and should be used more often, especially on really expensive keyboards. The idea of spending hundreds of dollars on a custom keyboard might seem slightly less insane to me if I knew it wouldn't die in the event of an accident with some coffee. 
5. There is such a thing as "too minimal" in case design.
6. If I were, for some reason, going to buy a backlit keyboard, it wouldn't be a Ducky.
7. If I I were going to buy another non-backlit keyboard, it still wouldn't be a Ducky.
8. Artisan keycaps: what is the point? They do not make anything better-looking, better to type on, or better to game with.
9. In general, the appearance of a keyboard isn't that important. Font, in particular, is not worth obsessing over.
10. As enthusiasts, we should be excited about improvements in performance, even if there's no particularly pressing need for the improvement, and even if the improvement is small. After all, getting one extra point in a game, one time, during your entire lifespan, is still better than not getting it...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:59:13
1) I don't like Topre switches. I'll never own a Topre board other than one to tour.
2) I don't like DSA sets and I'll never buy a set.
3) I think most artisan caps look like **** but no one wants to be honest and tell the makers to continue improving their designs/processes. People want exclusive **** and are willing to kiss ass to get it.
4) I think PBT is way way way overhyped and if I could get away from using it, I would.
5) I think printed keycaps look better than blank ones.
6) I always prefer my boards to have the winkey.
7) I think everyone who is into mechanical keyboards should learn how to touch type. It's like being a car enthusiast who can't drive a stick shift. How can you full appreciate the hobby when something so fundamental is missing.
8 ) Looking at yet another beige/grey set makes my eyes sad. I'm tired of lame color schemes. It's not retro or classic or even nostalgic looking, it's bland and boring.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:04:32
1) I don't like Topre switches. I'll never own a Topre board other than one to tour.
novatouch the only? :eek:
OK, I'll just rehash the same things I have been saying on this site:

1) Matrix keyboards are fun
2) 1x spacebars are the most space efficient and user friendly
3) relegendables are vital for people who want to try different layouts
4) we need Matrix layout Model Fs
5) Topre is overpriced
6) linear switches are terrible
7) brobots, clacks, gummyrots and whatever weird artisan keycaps are worthless because they bring no utility and interfere with switch actuation
8) expensive Korean customs have no intrinsic superiority to unfashionable keyboard manufacturers
9) that winkeyless layout with 7x spacebar is inferior to a modern layout with win keys and other keys (remember, it is very easy to use autohotkey to map your winkeys to do something else, so why not, that's exactly what I do!)
matrix are really nice? how you type on it? your hand straight  :rolleyes: i prefer sym sgg for non split
ive seen davkol type on pos kibord looks no prob but someone type on typematrix looks odd
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:05:47
1) I don't like Topre switches. I'll never own a Topre board other than one to tour.
novatouch the only?

I'm getting a Novatouch but I don't really consider that a personal keyboard. I'm merely holding onto it so that the community can try it out. Plus I didn't buy it for me or pay any money.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ConscienceDrop on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:17:41
a) Topre, and its acolyte followers are all disillusion. it feels like a rubber dome (it does make a nice sound i think this is 90% of the reason people like them)

b) full size boards are ugly and none effective

c) PBT caps are amazing and necessary if a keyboard comes with a none standard layout and does not supply PBT caps stock then it CANNOT be bought.

d) The HHKB has that ugly ass tramp stamp on it that totally ruins its design.

e) buckling spring feel and sound like ****. although the start of the key press is very nice the rest is garbage.

f) i don't personally really like artisan caps, but to each their own. however the artisan community seems to be made up 50%/50% really cool people and otherwise **** eating *******s.

g) keyboards are fun and i like them

h) i love all of you
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:19:37
g) keyboards are fun and i like them

h) i love all of you

 :-*   :-*   :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:20:38
1. Keyboards with cables that run underneath in channels suck!  The cable always pops out for no good reason.  I'm not against this method as it helps protect the hub but I haven't seen a good application of the technique yet.

2. IBM M2 > IBM F AT > All other M's.  Sorry, but it's true.

3. 4mm travel distance is way too much - closer to 3.0-3.5 is perfect.

4. Folks who cry like little babby's about rubber domes "oh you type just for a couple days and then the keyboard is mushy!  it's trash - TRASH!" or "I tried a rubber dome and didn't like it - therefore ALL rubberdomes suck - or ALL rubberdomes have poor quality."  That's like me trying a single MX switch on an off brand and suddenly declaring all MX boards as crap.

5. POM plastic is the best plastic.  You are all crazy for thinking otherwise.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:22:35
I'm a conformist ok?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:30:16
Topre is a rubber dome. And those of us that use Topre understand that. There is nothing inherently wrong with rubber domes. Topre uses a capacitive PCB under the dome, with a spring to provide the inductive switching mechanism. That's how it works, and we understand it. It's far, far, far away from a $2 crap dome keyboard with membrane that comes bundled with a PC.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keymaster on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:32:35
3) I think most artisan caps look like **** but no one wants to be honest and tell the makers to continue improving their designs/processes. People want exclusive **** and are willing to kiss ass to get it.

some hardcore truth right there
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:42:09
Typing on MX reds is like typing on a cloud of b00bs. 

Typing on Topre is like typing on rubber b00bs.

All others are like typing on dead kittens.

POM keycaps get sweaty and start to feel gross.

Black PBT keycaps often look dark purple.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:42:22
3) I think most artisan caps look like **** but no one wants to be honest and tell the makers to continue improving their designs/processes. People want exclusive **** and are willing to kiss ass to get it.
I think at least with caps like BBs he got it to a point where there weren't any imperfections. That's the main thing I have against CC skulls. Not that I don't think that they're cool lookijg, I just think that he could update the molds every once and a while so there are those obvious imperfections. But I do understand that some cas makers are definitely going for a handmade, artisan feel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Schwarz on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:43:38
I guess some of these opinions aren't that unpopular. Just less heard in the keyboard community...

1) HHKB is overpriced
2) Topre fanboys are getting way too excited about a keyboard that feels like a smoother rubberdome
(I will say I'm in the camp that loves the HHKB layout. It made me change the ctrl/caps lock keys on all my keyboards)

3) Rainbow colored keyboards look cheap and childish
4) Artisan caps, see #3
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:45:37
3) Rainbow colored keyboards look cheap and childish
yeah, all those colors just kinda looks tacky to me, like no thought was put in to making a sleek or at least original set.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Battou62 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:51:58
1) I dislike the DSA profile, and OEM profile as well.
2) I don't understand "Artisan Key Caps", and will never have any on my board.
3) If it's not a Classic Beige, BoW, or Dolch color scheme, I probably don't like it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:52:29
g) keyboards are fun and i like them
h) i love all of you
(http://dailypicksandflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/i-bring-you-love-simpsons.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: connorelsea on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:53:18
:))
3) Rainbow colored keyboards look cheap and childish
4) Artisan caps, see #3

It's weird to see a lot of people hate on the super popular artisan key caps in this thread. I always thought of collecting artisan caps in a similar way to having a few paintings on the walls of your house, but maybe I am wrong!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:53:53
* DSA is ridiculous. It is literally like having OEM profile home row keys all over the board.
* Matrix layout is not ergonomic. At all.
* Alps' Black and Cream force curve with its high actuation point and drop is at fault for rubber domes getting popular.
* You have to mod Cherry MX to make them feel good, and that SUCKS.
* ErgoDox is overrated.
* Cherry MX Red are stupid.
* Buckling springs are overrated.
* Heavier keyboard does NOT make for a better typing experience.
* Plate-mounting Cherry MX does not make it better.
* Lower profile is better.
* Cherry stabilisers > Costar stabilisers.
* Most scissor switches that are not super-cheap have a higher feel of quality than Cherry MX or Alps, because they are more stabilised.
* Clacks look like the super-cheap toys you get in a cereal box or with cheap candy you buy at a shady place. You could just as well buy action figures or Lego minifigs and place them next to the keyboard - it is cheaper, they usually look much better and you could actually type on the keys if they have proper keycaps instead.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:54:06
how about this raibow? :eek: not childish i think
(http://www.key64.org/images/key64_ergonomic_keyboard_as_of_20130315.jpg/image_preview)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Elocutive on Fri, 07 November 2014, 09:54:37
I regret buying the keyboard I buy pretty much the instant after I make the transaction because my keyboard interests change so much, and feel like it is an insane am out of money to spend on a keyboard, regardless of the quality.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:00:21
* ErgoDox is overrated.

Very.

* Cherry stabilisers > Costar stabilisers.

So much this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:07:45
clipping chery feel more better
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:08:06
1.ergo clears suck

2.vintage blacks with a spring swap is the most idiotic thing ever. the point of it being vintage is that its used and settled in. same with unused vintage black

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.

4. clack therapy thread and how people act when they dont win something is geekhack's cancer. grow the **** up.

5. i feel no difference between abs or pbt

6. clipping stabs is a placebo

7. after market price around otd boards is stupid

8. if youve spent more than 100 on boards and cant touch type. just.. leave.

9. backlighting is for children
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: skuko on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:13:41
9. backlighting is for children

this 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000+ times. can't freaking stand backlit boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:15:44
Most people don't know what they like they just go along with the crowd.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: evolveS on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:18:36
1. I like the sound of buckling springs, but it's pretty fatiguing and obviously not portable. Those boards are collector pieces.
2. I haven't driven a 40% for any reasonable amount of time, but it seems like too much usability is sacrificed for portability. The Planck project looks interesting because of the columnar layout though, so I'll bite.
3. OEM profile is too high.
4. DSA profile doesn't seem worth adjusting to for cosmetic reasons alone.
5. Scoops are just better than bars.
6. Flipped spacebars are still ergonomic.

I love this thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JPG on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:19:09
1. I don't think Filco is overpriced because at least you get a quality board (even if I don't use mine anymore).


2. Nothing beats a model F. I have not tried every switch, but nothing beats a model F anyway.


3. The SSK layout is awesome, just need to have a model F with it now. Numpads are useless to me. I can understand that it can be useful to some, but id you don't need one, don't get it.


4. Full size keyboard are stupid and bad for the shoulders unless you don't use a mouse. Either get a TKL layout or get a layout like a TKL but with the numpad instead of nav cluster. Anyway, numlock lets you use it as a nav cluster when needed even in OLD keyboards.


5. All keyboards should be fully programmable with layers and NKRO.


6. Keycaps cost way *** too much and for cherry MX I just don't see why they are not all cherry profile. OEM profile is **** and is the only reason why someone should buy another keyset.


7. Backlight keyboards are like neon on a civic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:20:34
Most people don't know what they like they just go along with the crowd.

Related:

Polls to decide on a keyboard layout (or other product design feature) are worthless. People think they want something, but they have no idea. You have to tell someone what they need, not ask them what they want.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:27:05
10. backslash is part of the alpha set. stop giving it ****ing mod colors. same with 1/esc on 60% boards. this aint 'Nam, THERE ARE RULES.

11. enough with the vomit color schemes ffs

man looks like i can do this all day.

point blank, hhkb godlike keyboard. nothing compares. and if you say different youve never been so wrong.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:50:21
So much hate in this thread.  :'(  You can like something unpopular too, doesn't always need to be negative.  :P

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I LOVE all sorts of keyboards.  I may love some more than others, but there isn't much that I don't like.

Also, I love all of you guys, despite your hatred.   :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:51:22
Also, I love all of you guys, despite your hatred.

I LOVE YOU TOO HOFF
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:53:57
We love you too Hoff. Bro love.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 11:15:43
Most people don't know what they like they just go along with the crowd.
this is not only in keyboard almost anything :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ConscienceDrop on Fri, 07 November 2014, 11:25:44
i) HHKB layout is bad, the arrow cluster is stupid

j) programmability is nice, but the gods honest truth is most presets are probably better than 'your' layout if you would just get used to them. (besides the hhkb layout)

k) back lighting is functional, sometimes i need to one-hand type in the dark (rainbow patterns are still not acceptable)

l) custom cases that are held together by bolts on the corners are the ugliest thing i have ever seen

m) people who think certain modern boards work better/worse with certain modern OS are speaking total nonsense.

n) "Gaming" should never ever ever even slightly factor into your purchase of a keyboard. buy a real keyboard, if you happen to game on it fine. your real keyboard will have nkro or 6+ kro already, that's more than enough.
anything ever that has "gaming" on it just avoid; that's straight up life advice.

o) brown switches are by leaps and bounds the best of the common four (red, blue, black, brown) switches.

p) linear switches are pointless unless super heavy. if you dont rock a full board of MX super black and you still use linear you are doing it wrong

q) rubber dome are not "fine/okay/acceptable" keyboards are not "subjective". yes there will be a disagreement at the 'top' level of taste between switches and other things that impact feel but there is still an objectively inferior aspect to scissor/rubber dome keyboards.
when you say rubber dome are 'fine' its like you are saying you kia is a 'fine' alternative to someone else's Ferrari. its not. ferrari v Bugatti might be a more nuanced conversation, that's fine; but the inferiority of cheap ass boards is not debatable on 'subjective' grounds. 

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 11:48:43
Unpopular you say? Let's get unpopular.

Keyboard is a tool for typing.

Majority of Geekhack and the keyboard enthusiast communities overall is just a posh circlejerk masturbating to novelty keycaps, Thorpe and Korean customs. There's no common sense involved and the ignorance is reaching the level of hi-end audio hype at head-fi. Most keyboard-related discussions outside the keyboard community are full of ignorance as well. "any mechanical keyboard is more durable and feels better than rubber domes" WTF?

Split Microsoft Sculpt keyboard is much better than vast majority of available mechanical keyboards.

Speaking of that, Apple Aluminium keyboards are rubbish. Wireless connection and backlighting are also disadvantages. Pushing sound cards, USB hubs, volume controls, etc. into keyboards is pure idiocy.

Kinesis Advantage and "Truly Ergonomic" are wasted $200, due to crippled proprietary firmware. Kinesis Advantage is worth the remaining $100 only because of customer support. TECK isn't, because its customer support doesn't exist.

ABS keycaps are stupid. POM ought to be industry standard, due to their overall durability. Printing is overrated, doubleshots included. DSA feels cheap (besides being too tight on stems).

Differences among switches are overrated. Some switch modifications (like stickers) are as stupid as audiophiles swapping ultimate cables. Cherry MY aren't bad, they just aren't meant for most enthusiasts' use case.

Colemak is overrated and the ZXCV argument is dumb. (But no, QWERTY isn't "good enough".)

People, that rest their hands while typing on a normal keyboard, should pay higher insurance.

Clicky switches are only for those, who can't enable click emulation in software/buzzer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Battou62 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:06:37

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:18:15
Split Microsoft Sculpt keyboard is much better than vast majority of available mechanical keyboards.
this is have dual sgg like tipro 122 :eek:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Ap2l5mxVL._SL1000_.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:26:22

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.


except, not. at least personally i find linear boring and wouldnt waste money on it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:34:59
Split Microsoft Sculpt keyboard is much better than vast majority of available mechanical keyboards.
this is have dual sgg like tipro 122 :eek:
Show Image
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Ap2l5mxVL._SL1000_.jpg)

That's not the split MS Sculpt, although it isn't all that bad either AFAIK. I meant the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Keyboard, which is tenkeyless. It's a pity they apparently don't make a wired version.

There's non-standard staggering on the top row, which is something I don't like, but the ISO version makes angle layout mod possible at the very least.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:35:49
10. backslash is part of the alpha set. stop giving it ****ing mod colors. same with 1/esc on 60% boards. this aint 'Nam, THERE ARE RULES.

11. enough with the vomit color schemes
.

10.  Symmetry 4 lyfe.

11 Unicorn vomit sucks, manly unicorn is awesome.


 
So much hate in this thread.  :'(  You can like something unpopular too, doesn't always need to be negative.  :P

Time for likes then:

I think shiny Cherry ABS is more fun to use than new Cherry or GMK ABS.

The PBT sets from my typewriter feels better than the Cherry PBT (thin and some thick mods) I have.

TA typewriter PBT >Cherry GMK ABS>Cherry PBT

I prefer good scissor switches to Cherry ML and Model M style buckling spring.

I think there's a lot of stagnation in mechs because people are more concerned with caps than a better experience. 

Making stuff together and off topic are the best subforums.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:50:33
1. Some scissors switches on laptops are pretty good

2. I love flat keyboards, the smaller the angle the better!

3. DSA is awesome (and an LP set would be sweet)

4. I think most ergonomics keyboards are poorly masked snake oil ("natural" typing and posture is completely personal)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:57:43
Oh another one.  I think that keyboards should have a negative angle, with the high part in the front and short part in the back.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Battou62 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:59:14

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.


except, not. at least personally i find linear boring and wouldnt waste money on it.

(http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ready-to-fight-bruce-lee.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:06:44
ssk overrated as ****
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JPG on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:07:56
ssk overrated as ****


It's only problem is being an M and not an F. Poor ssk lol.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:08:10
ssk overrated as ****

almost as overrated as the HHKB  ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: a_ak57 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:08:30
If the HHKB was my first experience with topre I'd have gone back to cherry.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Xowie on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:13:27
Based solely on the comments of this thread, my unpopular keyboard opinion is that HHKB is the best board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:22:39
4. I think most ergonomics keyboards are poorly masked snake oil ("natural" typing and posture is completely personal)
Like this (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016981410400215X)?

Quote
Problem: Although alternative keyboards promote safer postures, their implementation is impeded by the initial reduced productivity. The objective of this study was to assess the effect of training on typing efficiency on two ergonomic keyboards (Maltron and Goldtouch).

Method: Thirty volunteers (20 trained and 10 untrained) typed a standardized text on each keyboard. Bilateral wrist motion, overall applied force, surface electromyography (EMG), and typing performance were continuously monitored.

Results:   The one-way ANOVA with repeated measures revealed that training decreased the applied force significantly for both Maltron (p<0.031) and Goldtouch (p<0.022). Training affected the typing speed (p<0.027 and p<0.008 for Goldtouch and Maltron, respectively) and error rate (p<0.039 and p<0.007 for Goldtouch and Maltron, respectively). However, training did not influence wrist motion and EMG muscle activity.

Conclusions: Due to the fact that the increase in performance following the training period did not cause higher muscle activity, ergonomic keyboards may constitute a solution for reducing typing related musculoskeletal problems.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: munch on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:25:41

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.


except, not. at least personally i find linear boring and wouldnt waste money on it.

Show Image
(http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ready-to-fight-bruce-lee.gif)


I'll take your side, mr Lee...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:32:25
Few more...

11. If you like plastic toys integrated into your keyboard, why settle for little custom keycaps when you can get a whole keyboard with dragon style design (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0GA-009T-00001)?

12. We should be buying a greater variety of keyboards, not just the same ones over and over. We're looked to as a hub of knowledge about such things, but the reality is that even if you only consider western sites like ebay and amazon, there are a lot of mechanical keyboards out there that I wager not one of us has any firsthand experience of. Some of these might well have features that turn out to be good, or perhaps even good build quality or a good price-quality ratio, but we'll never know because even the heavy collectors tend to buy and chase the same few things, instead of competing to find and reveal things that were previously "unexplored" by the community.

13. Many "gamer" features can actually be useful, but usually not for anything having to do with gaming. Remember, most features that are now marketed as "gamer features", like side macro keys, little screens on the keyboard, NKRO, etc. were done by non-gaming keyboards first, and only started to be marketed towards gamers later.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 13:55:14

QWERTY character layout is * edit : was * to prevent neighbouring keys being pressed too rapidly in succession and jamming the gravity returned hammers.

Oh wait.. WE DON'T HAVE THESE THINGS ANY MORE. Yet the design has persisted, due to being familiar.

It's not logical, it's not comfortable or ergonomic, it's not even symmetrical or aesthetic.


But it does look good.


The ONLY reason to use it is familiarity. When the only reason you still do something a certain way is tradition, it's time to make a change, based on more current requirements.



I disagree entirely. Yes, we are accustomed to it.

But I believe that a staggered layout increases accuracy and prevents a great number of false keypresses that would have just grazed the edge of an adjacent key. I believe that having the center point which you are aiming at staggered in at least one direction enhances precision.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: johndavis33 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 14:16:55
Filcos are extremely overrated.

All of the lighter MX switches are trash.

Not exactly a keyboard opinion, but trackpoint > trackball.

Infact, I think trackpoints should be standard on all keyboards, especially on all laptops.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 14:21:48
I think trackpoints should be standard on all keyboards, especially on all laptops.

I just wish that I could re-map 2 of my unused keys to left- and right- mouse click.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 14:25:24
I believe
Yes.

I think trackpoints should be standard on all keyboards, especially on all laptops.
I just wish that I could re-map 2 of my unused keys to left- and right- mouse click.
You can, can't you? It's implemented in TMK at least IIRC.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 07 November 2014, 14:39:19
4. I think most ergonomics keyboards are poorly masked snake oil ("natural" typing and posture is completely personal)
Like this (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016981410400215X)?

Quote
Problem: Although alternative keyboards promote safer postures, their implementation is impeded by the initial reduced productivity. The objective of this study was to assess the effect of training on typing efficiency on two ergonomic keyboards (Maltron and Goldtouch).

Method: Thirty volunteers (20 trained and 10 untrained) typed a standardized text on each keyboard. Bilateral wrist motion, overall applied force, surface electromyography (EMG), and typing performance were continuously monitored.

Results:   The one-way ANOVA with repeated measures revealed that training decreased the applied force significantly for both Maltron (p<0.031) and Goldtouch (p<0.022). Training affected the typing speed (p<0.027 and p<0.008 for Goldtouch and Maltron, respectively) and error rate (p<0.039 and p<0.007 for Goldtouch and Maltron, respectively). However, training did not influence wrist motion and EMG muscle activity.

Conclusions: Due to the fact that the increase in performance following the training period did not cause higher muscle activity, ergonomic keyboards may constitute a solution for reducing typing related musculoskeletal problems.
Yeah, so here's the problem, I just read the article (I have a DeepDyve account) and this particular study is simply about 8h training sessions helping to increase proficiency with the new boards. It's not a study that says it reduces RSI.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 14:45:07
Quote
Although previous studies showed an improve-
ment in wrist posture (Hedge and Powers, 1995;
Marklin and Simoneau, 2001; Smith et al., 1998),
forearm pronation (Smith et al., 1998; Zecevic et
al., 2000), and tendon travel (Treaster and Marras,
2000), when typing on ergonomic keyboards
compared to conventional one, the replacement
costs and early decreased performance become
considerations.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:09:36
* Alps' Black and Cream force curve with its high actuation point and drop is at fault for rubber domes getting popular.
Can you explain this one? What do you mean “at fault”? As far as I can tell the “popularity” of rubber dome keyboards in the 90s and after is entirely about (a) low cost, and perhaps (b) quiet sound.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: epzy on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:15:53
1. all pbt keycaps except cherry ones blows

2. 45g type-s feels way more snappy/tactile than 55g rf

3. lubing topre boards is no bueno

4. most gon's looks awful
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:16:11
Yeah I didn't quite understand that one either. :/
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: divito on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:21:46
Let's hear them.

I'll start off.

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

2. I think HHKB boards are overrated, and the layout dumber than a Poker. I think custom MX, HHKB layout boards are just as stupid (Viper, Happy).

3. I think Topre is overrated, and lower quality than MX (despite the higher price) as the board tends to get stiffer over time.

I approve of this message.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:24:30
It's implemented in TMK at least IIRC.

What is TMK?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:27:45
It's implemented in TMK at least IIRC.

What is TMK?


http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41989.0
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:38:57
I just thought of more

1) Mx blue switch is one of the noisiest switch ever. You can never browse at night and the click is very annoying.

2) Anyone typing in any other layout other than qwerty has little too much time on there hands. There is nothing wrong with qwerty

3) I still love my chiclet keyboard on my macbook. I think the macbook has the best chiclet keyboard.

4) Flipped spacebars look silly and does not assist your typing nor is it more "ergonomic".

5) Linear switches are a complete waste of money. you might as well buy a 6yr old rubber dome.

6) Anyone with more than 5 clacks has a hoarding problem and should give me one right away
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:39:19
Making stuff together and off topic are the best subforums.
Off topic is the best because it keeps all the garbage and all the most childish forum members away from the other subforums. It’s like a prison or ebola quarantine: no one wants to spend time there, but we’re glad it exists for the sake of public safety.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:48:27

I just thought of more

1) Mx blue switch is one of the noisiest switch ever. You can never browse at night and the click is very annoying.

2) Anyone typing in any other layout other than qwerty has little too much time on there hands. There is nothing wrong with qwerty

3) I still love my chiclet keyboard on my macbook. I think the macbook has the best chiclet keyboard.

4) Flipped spacebars look silly and does not assist your typing nor is it more "ergonomic".

5) Linear switches are a complete waste of money. you might as well buy a 6yr old rubber dome.

6) Anyone with more than 5 clacks has a hoarding problem and should give me one right away

Yeah. Pretty much all of this. Except for the Mac kb stuff.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:53:33
I got nothing.  Only love.   :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fnzzy on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:13:17
1. I think the Lightsaver looks silly

2. Thin keycaps feel bad and I have no interest in owning a set (means no toxic or raindrop etc.)

3. DSA looks horrible, the font that most DSA sets use looks horrible, the Retro set looks abyssmal

4. I like 75% .. yes you heard right.

5. I don't really  like the looks of all the CC caps. Candy Corn is the worst color scheme ever.

6. The term "Gaming" is stupid and gaming functionality is useless. No one should buy those products.

7. I never used the Win key and never will. Therefore I think that 84 key is the best layout for TKL.

8. Also, according to this thread I am one of the few people who think linear switches are amazing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:18:34

5. Candy Corn is the worst color scheme ever.

8. Also, according to this thread I am one of the few people who think linear switches are amazing.


I wouldn't pay big bucks for weird caps, but I really like "Candy Corn" and "Beer with Head" colors.

My teenage son, a gamer, loves his black Cherry switches and thin soft O-rings on the keys he uses most.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:22:36
Quote
Although previous studies showed an improve-
ment in wrist posture (Hedge and Powers, 1995;
Marklin and Simoneau, 2001; Smith et al., 1998),
forearm pronation (Smith et al., 1998; Zecevic et
al., 2000), and tendon travel (Treaster and Marras,
2000), when typing on ergonomic keyboards
compared to conventional one, the replacement
costs and early decreased performance become
considerations.
To which I raise you Carpal tunnel syndrome due to keyboarding and mouse tasks: a review (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169814102001804) which has in its conclusion:

Quote
Although there is strong evidence of a causal relation between keyboarding and pointing devices on the one hand and CTS occurrence on the other, the role of every single design element is not known. Once these answers are provided, the primary aim of the environmental changes will certainly be the reduction of the risk factors regardless of the associated financial costs as these are going to be one-time expenditures.

No one has shown the link of wrist position etc. to RSI/CTS.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:31:21
See Rempel 2007. Besides, CTS is only one specific kind of keyboard-related issues.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Elocutive on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:47:41
I would rather use plastic cases than low profile metal cases. They are hideous
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:05:26
No one has shown the link of wrist position etc. to RSI/CTS.
I’ll grant you that most studies about keyboard ergonomics are crap: small sample sizes and selection biases in typists studied, insufficient training time, short study times, poorly controlled confounding factors, etc. etc.

However, your blanket statement is too strong IMO. Changes in typing posture (or e.g. the adoption of a new keyboard) often makes a dramatic difference in discomfort, both for people with severe RSI, and for people first starting to exhibit mild symptoms. There are plenty of people on this forum who can attest to that from direct experience, and at least a handful of studies that put together some of the pieces, if imperfectly.

Considering how many people spend hours a day typing, it would be great if someone would spend a few million dollars on a longer term research program, with better study design and a more comprehensive plan, instead of just getting occasional scattered studies done by a grad student here or a grad student there, with little cooperation or support, etc. Unfortunately I don’t personally know anyone with the resources and inclination to fix that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:12:34
I think Clacks looks stupid and it amuses me when I see people paying tons of cash for them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:13:17
yeah i don't like SA either.

i tried the filco sphericals and had to remove them, because i started having wrist pains due to the unnatural angle, because the caps are too damn high :)

a wrist rest partially alleviates this, but it's just additional clutter on the table i don't really need, so i'll stick to my cherry profile thick PBT caps without the need of a wristrest.

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/002/626/doing-it-wrong.jpg)

You should raise your wrists off the desk when typing.

SA profile is awesome. The most solid, heavy, piano-like, retro-modern, beautiful profile ever.

And it looks fantastic on 60% boards.

I am always right unless I'm wrong.

<combined an answer with five unpopular opinions, how's that for efficiency? And artisan caps are art. Everyone has their own taste. Or lack thereof.>
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: neun_sechs_zwei on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:15:54
So much hate in this thread.  :'(  You can like something unpopular too, doesn't always need to be negative.  :P

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I LOVE all sorts of keyboards.  I may love some more than others, but there isn't much that I don't like.

I hear you. These keyboards are generally unergonomic useless pieces of ****e but I like them anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: divito on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:17:07
You should raise your wrists off the desk when typing.

Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.

I've never really understood how people get RSI/CTS from keyboarding, but if they have that notion of holding their hands up in the air, I can kind of see it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:20:48
I would rather use plastic cases than low profile metal cases. They are hideous
blasphemy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:23:51
The important thing is significant weight. The more solid the thing that you are pushing against, the easier and more accurate the pushing is. Actually bolting the keyboard to the table would be ideal.

That is also why the Evoluent mouse is the worst mouse in the universe.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:27:19
Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.
Your chair is too low and/or your desk is too high.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: divito on Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:53:48
Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.
Your chair is too low and/or your desk is too high.

? Arms are at 90 degrees.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:22:47
Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.
Your chair is too low and/or your desk is too high.
? Arms are at 90 degrees.
If you’re resting your palms on your desk while typing, then either you’re putting incredible strain on your wrists, or your desk/chair are at a bad height, or both.

If you are using a standard-layout keyboard and resting your palms on a palmrest while typing, then same story. Unless you have a palmrest which is very high, taller than any that I’ve ever seen in person or in pictures. (If this is the case you should have said so up front.)

Palmrests are for resting your palms on when you are not actively typing. If you are resting your palms on them while actively typing, you very likely have poor typing posture. Please don’t do this if you have a job that requires many hours of continuous typing (e.g. writing a novel, working as a programmer, or transcribing speech); you’ll injure yourself.

If you’re using a Kinesis Advantage, Maltron, or similar keyboard, then you might be fine. (But again, you should have said so up front.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:40:55
* Alps' Black and Cream force curve with its high actuation point and drop is at fault for rubber domes getting popular.
Can you explain this one? What do you mean “at fault”? As far as I can tell the “popularity” of rubber dome keyboards in the 90s and after is entirely about (a) low cost, and perhaps (b) quiet sound.
I meant popular among manufacturers, sorry.
"Hey, this cheaper switch feels just like the more expensive Alps switch. It is cheaper and good enough. Let's use it.".
That is probably how it started. Then there was even more cost-cutting. Not all rubber domes are bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:51:25
"Hey, this cheaper switch feels just like the more expensive Alps switch. It is cheaper and good enough. Let's use it."
I guarantee you that whatever people inside HP, IBM, Dell, etc. etc. decided to start shipping rubber domes with their keyboards did not have the feel of black Alps switches anywhere near their decision process.

If you want to insult black Alps switches, go right ahead, but it’s ridiculous to invent a story about it.

FWIW, I don’t especially like rubber domes, and I also don’t especially like black Alps switches, but IMO they don’t feel remotely similar to each-other.

I think you’re projecting. Along the lines of: “Here’s this thing I don’t like, and here’s this other thing I don’t like. They must be the same.”
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:56:44
FWIW, I don’t especially like rubber domes, and I also don’t especially like black Alps switches, but IMO they don’t feel remotely similar to each-other.
Ok, maybe not Black Alps, but Cream Alps have been mistaken for better rubber domes many times ... and Black Alps have a somewhat similar force curve.

I think you’re projecting. Along the lines of: “Here’s this thing I don’t like, and here’s this other thing I don’t like. They must be the same.”
That's your opinion. :-þ
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: qihqi on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:03:54
I love Truly Ergonomic keyboard and own two.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:09:21
...
Standard QWERTY layout keyboards in general - horizontal stagger design is to allow levers to reach the hammer mechanism. QWERTY character layout is to prevent neighbouring keys being pressed too rapidly in succession and jamming the gravity returned hammers.... Oh wait.. WE DON'T HAVE THESE THINGS ANY MORE. Yet the design has persisted, due to being familiar. It's not logical, it's not comfortable or ergonomic, it's not even symmetrical or aesthetic. The ONLY reason to use it is familiarity. When the only reason you still do something a certain way is tradition, it's time to make a change, based on more current requirements.

I agree.

This is my suggestion to keyboard manufacturers:

a) a TKL keyboard. (Attached.)

b) a 7x14 keyboard (Attached.)

To users: if you don't want to sacrifice any of your skills with the standard keyboard, or you already own an expensive TKL case, expensive keycaps, rare switches etc and don't want to waste more money, choose a). Otherwise, chose b).

Edit: I'm sorry I couldn't post attachements. Internal server error.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:17:50
Ok, maybe not Black Alps, but Cream Alps have been mistaken for better rubber domes many times ...
I can definitely imagine that as a quick first impression, since they have a springy/mushy stroke bottom. I think it’d be hard to sustain that impression after a few minutes of use.

I think of a Alps cream switch as basically a slightly better version of an MX clear switch with an o-ring installed. In both cases, the switches would benefit substantially from a bit sharper/snappier tactile feel, and from a lighter spring.

It’s possible to mod cream Alps switches into something quite nice by replacing the spring (or cutting a few loops off), and bending the tactile leaf a bit or replacing it with a more tactile one.

Matias definitely has the best unmodded switch of this general concept.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asgeirtj on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:21:07
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:29:42
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
well now hold on lets not get carried away. Some of us prefer not to have the sharp edge of the spacebar digging into our thumb
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:30:49
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****. [...]
2. SA the same way is horrendeous. [...]
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, [...]
4. Browns is the best popular switch [...]
7. IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly,
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.
Judging from your criteria, I’m guessing you use a Cherry G80-3850 with the LEDs removed and the logo painted over. Nailed to a block of wood to avoid too low a profile.

But seriously, I’m really not sure there are any keyboards you’d be satisfied with, if you need all of:
No colors anywhere, no backlight, ISO layout, no logos, included numpad, no extra space below the F keys, tall and steeply angled keyboard with wrist rest, low-profile cylindrical keycaps.

Maybe the Sun Type 4 would work for you?
(http://homepage1.nifty.com/y-osumi/parts/keyboard/sun/sun_type4.jpg)

Oh wait, I figured it out:
(http://adlib.blogs.com/andyblog/images/IMG_0019_1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hPN0dCH.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:35:56
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.

So...you hate everything about mechanical keyboards.   :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:36:26

One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.

What profile do you like?  DCS?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:18:50

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.

he's right though.
paying money for linears is like paying money for air.

ps

why do people think novelties are used for typing?  do people think that clack collectors actually type on them?

they're just minisculptures tht happen to fit on keyboard switches.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:25:26
Having one on ESC is fine, but having more than that just looks like you're 12 years old.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:29:31
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:40:52
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:42:06
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Me too! How are you liking the v60 with Matias switches??
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:42:38
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Thats a thing? Link! I suddenly want a matias keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:43:15
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Me too! How are you liking the v60 with Matias switches??

Matias/Signature Plastics keycaps can't come soon enough.  Not entirely satisfied with the stock keycaps...

KBP really needs to roll out Tai Hao's as stock.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Fri, 07 November 2014, 21:23:07
I like back lighting, but I hate the way manufacturers use it.

Back lighting should be used to guide people, not to fool them.

Every key should have a number of independent LEDs (each for one symbol under the key). Two would be the bare minimum, four would be better, and eight would be ideal. And monochromatic LEDs would suffice.

Manufacturers have chosen the opposite way -- a single full-rainbow-colored LED under every key. I hate it.

I won't spend $200 for such a backlit keyboard. A lamp set or a Christmas tree would do it better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AuRinBei on Fri, 07 November 2014, 21:50:15
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.


I want to fight you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 07 November 2014, 23:22:04
Linear is really nice espicially black or 60g up red is not smooth at all its like press bolpein without spring
the only i dont like boring linear clicky wouldbe good
i like tactile RD than grey ;D
i dont have many experience with kibord & easily intrested :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 07 November 2014, 23:42:53
1.  I love Cherry profile, but I don't hate OEM profile.

2.  I think SA profile is really ugly.

3.  Any keyboard smaller than 80% is unusable to me, but I think they are pretty.

4.  I think winkey and menu key is useless, so I prefer 84 keys.

5.  Artisan keycap on esc looks fine.  but i think filling the whole F-row with artisan keycaps is ugly.

6.  I think spacebar should be separated into two, just like the G80-5000.

7.  G80 is one of the best keyboard I have used.

8.  I like both Cherry abs and pbt, but I hate SP abs because of the rough surface.

9.  I think putting grave accent key and backslash should be in alpha keys color.

10.  I think F5-F8 should be in alpha keys color too.

11.  I modifiers keys in grey is much better than legend color.

12.  I don't like miami keycaps.

13.  I don't like bucking spring.... it just driving me crazy.

14.  I LOVE scooped F & J, I HATE bars or dot on F & J.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 00:06:59
5.  Artisan keycap on esc looks fine.  but i think filling the whole F-row with artisan keycaps is ugly.
6.  I think spacebar should be separated into two, just like the G80-5000.
9.  I think putting grave accent key and backslash should be in alpha keys color.
10.  I think F5-F8 should be in alpha keys color too.
11.  I modifiers keys in grey is much better than legend color.
12.  I don't like miami keycaps.
These aren’t unpopular opinions. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asgeirtj on Sat, 08 November 2014, 01:41:56
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****. [...]
2. SA the same way is horrendeous. [...]
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, [...]
4. Browns is the best popular switch [...]
7. IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly,
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.
Judging from your criteria, I’m guessing you use a Cherry G80-3850 with the LEDs removed and the logo painted over. Nailed to a block of wood to avoid too low a profile.

But seriously, I’m really not sure there are any keyboards you’d be satisfied with, if you need all of:
No colors anywhere, no backlight, ISO layout, no logos, included numpad, no extra space below the F keys, tall and steeply angled keyboard with wrist rest, low-profile cylindrical keycaps.

Maybe the Sun Type 4 would work for you?
Show Image
(http://homepage1.nifty.com/y-osumi/parts/keyboard/sun/sun_type4.jpg)


Oh wait, I figured it out:
Show Image
(http://adlib.blogs.com/andyblog/images/IMG_0019_1.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/hPN0dCH.jpg)


Regular space below the F keys is fine (for a work keyboard, need no space for sc2).  It's just extra space which is ugly like the g80-3000 has. Regular keyboards are fine, I have wasd v2 now and it fits my criteria pretty much.  I have  IKBC F104 coming in though which I will probably switch out the wasd for because of stabilizer issues with thick cherry caps, got gmk dolch incomin which I think looks pretty good (without the color pack). 

One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.

What profile do you like?  DCS?

cherry
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 08 November 2014, 01:51:48
* I think exposed switches are ugly, unless there are absolutely no borders. The keyboard shouldn't have a footprint larger than the keycaps if the switches are exposed. Super-wide borders with countersunk bolts/nuts... or even worse: bolt heads that are not countersunk are ugly as Elle.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AuRinBei on Sat, 08 November 2014, 02:20:29
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I don't think that many people here play games. I can see why people don't like them for typing. I mean, why wouldn't you want some kind of force feedback? But there are plenty of games where linear switches are preferable. There are even games where I don't prefer mechanical. I play Super Meat Boy and Super Hexagon with scissor switches, and I notice an improvement over blacks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 02:36:47
People don’t like typing on linear switches because tactile and audio feedback are incredibly helpful when typing (or doing anything else with a keyboard, frankly).

Personally I would be willing to type on linear switches, part of the time (not all the time), if the following conditions were met:
(1) relatively high actuation point – Cherry MX is a bit too low for me; on the other hand, total travel distance isn’t all that important in a linear switch, anything from 2.5–5mm is fine.
(2) the right amount of force required; with Cherry MX, this means swapping in aftermarket “korean” 62–67g springs, or possibly the springs from MX clear switches. Green Alps and white Hi-Tek “space invaders” are both pretty good, as are some tee mount Alps, and some of the linear switches from the 60s–70s (though I find many others to be too stiff).
(3) very smooth action: this takes either high quality plastics and and effective manufacturing process on the slider/housing surfaces, or a bunch of lubricant, or ideally both; among MX switches, the “vintage” type are okay, but the modern ones are unpleasantly scratchy
(4) great response to off-axis keypresses, with smooth action when pressed at any angle, and no wobble. Both MX and Alps switches are weak here, and I suspect Matias’s linear switches will be even weaker; space invaders are better, and I’m also partial to SMK “monterey” switches with the click leaves removed. The “super Alps” keyboard HaaTa has is probably the best example http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_Magnetic_Reed. I don’t have enough experience with various other vintage linear switches to judge all the rest. Lubricant helps improve this for most linear switches.
(5) A solenoid for audio/tactile feedback at switch actuation. This one is absolutely crucial for me. Linear switches with no feedback are just no fun to type on, but add a big loud solenoid, especially in a sturdy metal/wood case, and BAM, the fun is back.

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Sat, 08 November 2014, 02:53:38
(5) A solenoid for audio/tactile feedback at switch actuation. This one is absolutely crucial for me. Linear switches with no feedback are just no fun to type on, but add a big loud solenoid, especially in a sturdy metal/wood case, and BAM, the fun is back.

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.
i think beam spring have selenoid
how to add selenoid ?:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Sat, 08 November 2014, 03:06:51
Here's another two:

All Signature Plastics keycaps except SA profile are too thin and light and not worth buying. DCS doubleshots weight less than 1g (0.8g for home row), SA doubleshots weigh 2g each. Unless you are using Blues.

But MX clicky switches, particularly Blues, are cheap sounding and irritating, so it's still not worth getting any SP caps other than SA profile.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 08 November 2014, 03:35:48
People don’t like typing on linear switches because tactile and audio feedback are incredibly helpful when typing (or doing anything else with a keyboard, frankly).

(…)

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.

That's you opinion, and it's very unpopular with me. >_<

I've picked linear (MX) switches over MX Clear and especially Alps for my newer boards, because (1) click annoys other people and I'm listening to music anyway; (2) I don't type all day, very few people actually do (and many of them would be better replaced by speech recognition), and riding the actuation point on linear switches is much nicer, when navigating through documents, switching windows, etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: notsonerd on Sat, 08 November 2014, 03:50:42
1. Backlights on a keyboard look awesome and they help a lot under certain conditions.

2. 60% layouts have the sexiest look hands down.

3. Corsair's keyboards are built well and feel nice to type on. They're also among the best-looking. Waiting for 60%.

4. Keycap materials can be mixed on a keyboard so long as the keys you use most (alphabet) are in the material you prefer most.

5. Ergonomics play a big part in a typing experience. This is an indirect jab at the space-wasting full-sized keyboards. Now it's a direct jab.

6. Switch testers are way overrated and serve the purpose of a desk toy better than to help someone determine which switches they like.

7. Artisan keycaps are art. Most of them may not look that great to me, but I consider them art in their own right and the ones who make them as artists.

8. Reverse spacebar makes any standard layout keyboard look two times better.

9. There need to be more keyboards with analog media controls like Corsair's. Albeit, a more space-saving implementation would be preferred, but they're just so handy.

10. Cherry MX Browns and Reds kind of rock. People who say they don't type way too harshly. That said...

11. Any switch heavier than Browns or Reds are too heavy to type on properly.

12. Keyboard layouts other than QWERTY don't make life easier. Tried Dvorak. They're only for hipsters. I was a hipster once. This thread is full of hipsters, though, so...I guess I still am.

13. Keyboards with more than three radically different colors (other than RGB mods) look stupid and need to go back to the 80's.

14. Huge legends look hideous. What's the point of making them bigger than size 12 font?

15. There's no point to the Windows and Menu keys on a keyboard. Give me another Fn key or even a Pn for that customizeability.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 08 November 2014, 04:00:54
13. Keyboards with more than three radically different colors (other than RGB mods) look stupid and need to go back to the 80's.
Nooooo!!! I don't want RGB backlighting on my Model M!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AuRinBei on Sat, 08 November 2014, 04:04:53
People don’t like typing on linear switches because tactile and audio feedback are incredibly helpful when typing (or doing anything else with a keyboard, frankly).

Personally I would be willing to type on linear switches, part of the time (not all the time), if the following conditions were met:
(1) relatively high actuation point – Cherry MX is a bit too low for me; on the other hand, total travel distance isn’t all that important in a linear switch, anything from 2.5–5mm is fine.
(2) the right amount of force required; with Cherry MX, this means swapping in aftermarket “korean” 62–67g springs, or possibly the springs from MX clear switches. Green Alps and white Hi-Tek “space invaders” are both pretty good, as are some tee mount Alps, and some of the linear switches from the 60s–70s (though I find many others to be too stiff).
(3) very smooth action: this takes either high quality plastics and and effective manufacturing process on the slider/housing surfaces, or a bunch of lubricant, or ideally both; among MX switches, the “vintage” type are okay, but the modern ones are unpleasantly scratchy
(4) great response to off-axis keypresses, with smooth action when pressed at any angle, and no wobble. Both MX and Alps switches are weak here, and I suspect Matias’s linear switches will be even weaker; space invaders are better, and I’m also partial to SMK “monterey” switches with the click leaves removed. The “super Alps” keyboard HaaTa has is probably the best example http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_Magnetic_Reed. I don’t have enough experience with various other vintage linear switches to judge all the rest. Lubricant helps improve this for most linear switches.
(5) A solenoid for audio/tactile feedback at switch actuation. This one is absolutely crucial for me. Linear switches with no feedback are just no fun to type on, but add a big loud solenoid, especially in a sturdy metal/wood case, and BAM, the fun is back.

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.

Most MOBA and RTS players use blues or browns. There is really no downside to using them for those kinds of games. But most FPS players use reds or blacks. The reason for this is that it is much more important to be able to float the actuation point for very subtle movements in FPS games, and having a bump to go over makes that much harder. I tried for a long time to get used to browns, but I never really felt like I had very much control with them. Same with Topre. It's also important that the switch actuates and de-actuates at the same height (which makes blues really bad for FPS). Would a plate spring do that? It would be useful if it did. Although even if it did, the spring force would still sharply decrease at the actuation point as the beam collapses. It probably wouldn't be that hard to adjust to, but it's honestly not very hard to just learn where the actuation point is on a linear switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: notsonerd on Sat, 08 November 2014, 04:16:21
13. Keyboards with more than three radically different colors (other than RGB mods) look stupid and need to go back to the 80's.
Nooooo!!! I don't want RGB backlighting on my Model M!

I was referring to keycaps, but I'm the same way towards backlights.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 08 November 2014, 07:56:05
KAILH SWITCHES ARE ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sat, 08 November 2014, 08:27:56
KAILH SWITCHES ARE ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD

Someone needs to cause a paradox by putting Kailh's into a Cherry brand keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Sat, 08 November 2014, 08:48:01
2.25 Lshift is blasphemy so is 2.75 Rshift
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 08 November 2014, 08:52:00
2.25 Lshift is blasphemy so is 2.75 Rshift

What about 1.25 left shift?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Sat, 08 November 2014, 09:44:34
2.25 Lshift is blasphemy so is 2.75 Rshift

What about 1.25 left shift?
1.25 is just the best , additional key on pratical position . That's why ISO is superior to ANSI .

ANSI is stupid for this and the key above enter , why would you put an regular key between enter and backspace wtf ameri***s .

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 10:31:40
1.25 [left shift] is just the best , additional key on pratical position . That's why ISO is superior to ANSI .
Except if your hands are smaller than average, then the left shift becomes quite hard to reach. (For instance, my wife finds the ANSI right shift essentially unusable; on ISO both shift keys are unusable for her.)

In any event, all these layouts are truly bad. ISO / ANSI / JIS / whatever, it’s bad piled on bad piled on bad, for >100 years.

Quote
wtf ameri***s.
I know this is the “unpopular opinions” thread, but can you keep this kind of crassness confined to 4chan? Thanks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ComradeSniper on Sat, 08 November 2014, 13:50:47
6. clipping stabs is a placebo

wut

I can feel a very clear difference between clipped and unclipped stabs. Clipped stabs still interfere with the feel more than costar but they're far less mushy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sat, 08 November 2014, 14:28:02
1.25 [left shift] is just the best , additional key on pratical position . That's why ISO is superior to ANSI .
Except if your hands are smaller than average, then the left shift becomes quite hard to reach. (For instance, my wife finds the ANSI right shift essentially unusable; on ISO both shift keys are unusable for her.)


if you're shorter than 6ft, you will pretty much hit the ansi lshift on the right side.  aka you will completely miss it on iso.

the position should be REVERSED.  1x key, 1.25x lshift key.

iso is stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fnzzy on Sat, 08 November 2014, 14:28:45
EVERY single keycap set by WASD keyboards looks like ass.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 08 November 2014, 14:58:52
1.25 [left shift] is just the best , additional key on pratical position . That's why ISO is superior to ANSI .
Except if your hands are smaller than average, then the left shift becomes quite hard to reach. (For instance, my wife finds the ANSI right shift essentially unusable; on ISO both shift keys are unusable for her.)


if you're shorter than 6ft, you will pretty much hit the ansi lshift on the right side.  aka you will completely miss it on iso.

the position should be REVERSED.  1x key, 1.25x lshift key.

iso is stupid.
That's quite an assumption about ones typing technique.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Sat, 08 November 2014, 15:19:33
I was bored and waiting for my coffee to take hold, so I decided to tally the unpopular opinions, summarizing them into categories. There is no nuance to this chart and some opinions were either clearly not unpopular (60% is awesome is not an unpopular opinion) or were too lengthy and specific to be worth trying to simplify. Through my extremely unscientific analysis, I present to you the most popular "unpopular opinions" of the thread as of the time of posting!

(http://i.imgur.com/z6RsOY9.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 08 November 2014, 15:23:14
I was bored and waiting for my coffee to take hold, so I decided to tally the unpopular opinions, summarizing them into categories. There is no nuance to this chart and some opinions were either clearly not unpopular (60% is awesome is not an unpopular opinion) or were too lengthy and specific to be worth trying to simplify. Through my extremely unscientific analysis, I present to you the most popular "unpopular opinions" of the thread as of the time of posting!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z6RsOY9.png)


Love is the true unpopular opinion.  :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DasHHKBProM on Sat, 08 November 2014, 15:26:53
I only like sharing my love for mech keyboards on the internet and not in real life.
outside perspective looking in, its kinda weird, but i love keyboards nonetheless.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 08 November 2014, 15:27:23
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcubiuak4g1qb16n2.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Sat, 08 November 2014, 15:48:30
1.25 [left shift] is just the best , additional key on pratical position . That's why ISO is superior to ANSI .
Except if your hands are smaller than average, then the left shift becomes quite hard to reach. (For instance, my wife finds the ANSI right shift essentially unusable; on ISO both shift keys are unusable for her.)


if you're shorter than 6ft, you will pretty much hit the ansi lshift on the right side.  aka you will completely miss it on iso.

the position should be REVERSED.  1x key, 1.25x lshift key.

iso is stupid.
1x key + 1.25 lshift make sense . Just like the 1.25 Rshift + 1x key . And it would be a great spot for a fn button .

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rainbow_ on Sat, 08 November 2014, 16:24:27
tbh I hate all Cherry MX switches. Blues were too loud, browns were too broken-feeling, and linears didn't have enough response.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 08 November 2014, 16:33:54
tbh I hate all Cherry MX switches. Blues were too loud, browns were too broken-feeling, and linears didn't have enough response.
Where are clears in the list?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:20:56
tbh I hate all Cherry MX switches. Blues were too loud, browns were too broken-feeling, and linears didn't have enough response.
Where are clears in the list?

in the trash, where they belong
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Grim Fandango on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:33:40
I was bored and waiting for my coffee to take hold, so I decided to tally the unpopular opinions, summarizing them into categories. There is no nuance to this chart and some opinions were either clearly not unpopular (60% is awesome is not an unpopular opinion) or were too lengthy and specific to be worth trying to simplify. Through my extremely unscientific analysis, I present to you the most popular "unpopular opinions" of the thread as of the time of posting!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z6RsOY9.png)


People seem to dislike the things most loved on this forum the most. I think what people really dislike is when people just go too far in their adoration of anything. It becomes annoying, and people start hating it for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:37:07
So you're telling me people hate things because of fanboys?

tbh I hate all Cherry MX switches. Blues were too loud, browns were too broken-feeling, and linears didn't have enough response.

Well, Browns suck unless they're "vintage" Browns (read well broken in).  Reds are **** and Blacks are meh unless you swap the springs for Clear springs and get yourself some Ghost Blacks/Reds.  Clears are okay, but only become great when lubed and you swap the springs for 65-70g springs.  Blues are annoying and suck unless they're "vintage" Blues.  Greens are annoying.  MX Lock are fun, but a novelty that really have no use.  Whites are too inconsistent. 


Alps>MX
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:42:56
So you're telling me people hate things because of fanboys?

tbh I hate all Cherry MX switches. Blues were too loud, browns were too broken-feeling, and linears didn't have enough response.

Well, Browns suck unless they're "vintage" Browns (read well broken in).  Reds are **** and Blacks are meh unless you swap the springs for Clear springs and get yourself some Ghost Blacks/Reds.  Clears are okay, but only become great when lubed and you swap the springs for 65-70g springs.  Blues are annoying and suck unless they're "vintage" Blues.  Greens are annoying.  MX Lock are fun, but a novelty that really have no use.  Whites are too inconsistent. 


Alps>MX

how odd, hipster nubs only likes vintage cherry and obscure ALPS (okay obscure might be pushing it, but you get the idea).

HOW ODD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:44:36
I hate the term vintage.  They're just broken in and well used. 

But demik, I like my HHKB and don't like Model Ms, what does that mean?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:45:09
I hate the term vintage.  They're just broken in and well used. 

But demik, I like my HHKB and don't like Model Ms, what does that mean?

that means you're a confused young man
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 17:55:52
I hate the term vintage.  They're just broken in and well used. 
If you’re talking about linear Cherry MX switches, this is simply false. Comparing never-used “vintage” (late 1980s) to brand new “modern” (2013) MX black switches, there is a night-and-day difference in smoothness. I’m not sure if it’s the quality of the injection molding tooling, or the material composition of the plastics, or some finishing process, or some kind of lubricant used, or what, but the difference is dramatic, and has nothing to do with the amount of use the switches have seen.

I’ll agree with you that MX switches are basically crap though. Even the “vintage” ones need a spring swap and some lube to be especially nice, and it’s not worth it when you could just get a Hi-Tek, SMK, Alps, or some other switch instead, and it would be nicer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 08 November 2014, 18:10:45
I've used old, "vintage", and new Blacks.  The difference is not "night and day," it's minimal in most.  There is a difference, but broken in and well used ones, regardless of old, vintage, or new, feel better than unused ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: skuko on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:07:05
yeah i don't like SA either.

i tried the filco sphericals and had to remove them, because i started having wrist pains due to the unnatural angle, because the caps are too damn high :)

a wrist rest partially alleviates this, but it's just additional clutter on the table i don't really need, so i'll stick to my cherry profile thick PBT caps without the need of a wristrest.

Show Image
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/002/626/doing-it-wrong.jpg)


You should raise your wrists off the desk when typing.

SA profile is awesome. The most solid, heavy, piano-like, retro-modern, beautiful profile ever.

And it looks fantastic on 60% boards.

I am always right unless I'm wrong.

<combined an answer with five unpopular opinions, how's that for efficiency? And artisan caps are art. Everyone has their own taste. Or lack thereof.>
I'd like to see you game for 10 hours with your hand on the wasd cluster with your wrist in the air.

SA profile had me having wrist pain, so I won't use it, period. :-)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:32:02
I think DSA caps are best for gaming in long intervals. Fingers can slide to the next key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:35:19
I'd like to see you game for 10 hours with your hand on the wasd cluster with your wrist in the air.
Using a keyboard (for whatever purpose) for 10 hours straight is stupid and terrible for your body, no matter what your setup is. Just sitting in a chair for that long at a time, whether reading a book, or watching TV, or writing with pen and paper, or whatever, is stupid.

You should be getting up and walking around after at most every 2–3 hours, and you should be taking brief stretch breaks every 30 minutes, if not more frequently.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:37:53
I'd like to see you game for 10 hours with your hand on the wasd cluster with your wrist in the air.
Using a keyboard (for whatever purpose) for 10 hours straight is stupid and terrible for your body, no matter what your setup is. Just sitting in a chair for that long at a time, whether reading a book, or watching TV, or writing with pen and paper, or whatever, is stupid.

You should be getting up and walking around after at most every 2–3 hours, and you should be taking brief stretch breaks every 30 minutes, if not more frequently.

Yeah, damn, 10 hours is pretty insane.  You're also "supposed" to pee every couple hours, so take your wrist off the keyboard when you do that, too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:43:26
Yeah, damn, 10 hours is pretty insane.  You're also "supposed" to pee every couple hours, so take your wrist off the keyboard when you do that, too.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4BZTkgpuZiE/T7Fuj7Yvm2I/AAAAAAAAPKo/76QXHW5up5Y/s1600/toilet-computer-desk.jpg)
NO.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Noko on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:49:57
1) I really love DSA.  Now that's unpopular!
2) I have a guilty pleasure, bottoming out hard on Apple laptop scissor switches.  Yes, I know it's bad for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 08 November 2014, 19:50:47
None of you deserve your fancy mechs because you can't type fast enough on them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Karura on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:01:52
I feel that most people lie about their crazy high typing speed (WPM) because I type at around 110WPM on average, and that's on a good day. I'm sure anyone can burst up to 130WPM for a few seconds, but I highly doubt the claims for any higher unless I see it in person :D

It's just very unlikely haha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:02:17
None of you deserve your fancy mechs because you can't type fast enough on them.

That's mean.  :(  I thought we were friends.

If you keep that up, you'll be the unpopular opinion.   >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:08:16
I'm sure anyone can burst up to 130WPM for a few seconds, but I highly doubt the claims for any higher unless I see it in person :D

This is 125 wpm on some text entirely full of numbers, symbols, and the awkwardest words they could come up with:
(I think this guy otherwise averages ~170 wpm.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:10:24
None of you deserve your fancy mechs because you can't type fast enough on them.

That's mean.  :(  I thought we were friends.

If you keep that up, you'll be the unpopular opinion.   >:D
☐ Not REKT ☑ REKT

I type a blistering......................................90WPM GET ON MY LEVEL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swathe on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:11:00
Sifo does like 140wpm on his youtube channel
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:11:48
None of you deserve your fancy mechs because you can't type fast enough on them.

That's mean.  :(  I thought we were friends.

If you keep that up, you'll be the unpopular opinion.   >:D
☐ Not REKT ☑ REKT

I type a blistering......................................90WPM GET ON MY LEVEL

☑ HPE is a meanie face

I type faster than you, ya big fat jerk!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:12:58
None of you deserve your fancy mechs because you can't type fast enough on them.

That's mean.  :(  I thought we were friends.

If you keep that up, you'll be the unpopular opinion.   >:D
☐ Not REKT ☑ REKT

I type a blistering......................................90WPM GET ON MY LEVEL

☑ HPE is a meanie face

I type faster than you, ya big fat jerk!
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/szg.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rainbow_ on Sat, 08 November 2014, 20:25:28
PBT isn't that much better than ABS
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: notsonerd on Sun, 09 November 2014, 04:14:39
I was bored and waiting for my coffee to take hold, so I decided to tally the unpopular opinions, summarizing them into categories. There is no nuance to this chart and some opinions were either clearly not unpopular (60% is awesome is not an unpopular opinion) or were too lengthy and specific to be worth trying to simplify. Through my extremely unscientific analysis, I present to you the most popular "unpopular opinions" of the thread as of the time of posting!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z6RsOY9.png)


People seem to dislike the things most loved on this forum the most. I think what people really dislike is when people just go too far in their adoration of anything. It becomes annoying, and people start hating it for it.

If this is true, then most of the unpopular opinions here are biased and have no real basis but the fact that they're annoyed by the people who have the opposite opinion. So if everyone just kept their mouths shut, this "unpopular" thread might not be so popular.

I believe a hobby such as mechanical keyboards has so much variety that it's hard to say it's even a niche community. Within the community there may be niches that differ from what's popular, but mechanical keyboards aren't as generally unpopular as people may think.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Sun, 09 November 2014, 07:04:15
...
Standard QWERTY layout keyboards in general - horizontal stagger design is to allow levers to reach the hammer mechanism. QWERTY character layout is to prevent neighbouring keys being pressed too rapidly in succession and jamming the gravity returned hammers.... Oh wait.. WE DON'T HAVE THESE THINGS ANY MORE. Yet the design has persisted, due to being familiar. It's not logical, it's not comfortable or ergonomic, it's not even symmetrical or aesthetic. The ONLY reason to use it is familiarity. When the only reason you still do something a certain way is tradition, it's time to make a change, based on more current requirements.

I agree.

This is my suggestion to keyboard manufacturers:

a) a TKL keyboard. (Attached.)

b) a 7x14 keyboard (Attached.)

To users: if you don't want to sacrifice any of your skills with the standard keyboard, or you already own an expensive TKL case, expensive keycaps, rare switches etc and don't want to waste more money, choose a). Otherwise, chose b).

Edit: I'm sorry I couldn't post attachements. Internal server error.

Here're the images:
a) http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64246.0;attach=79898;image
b) http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62339.0;attach=81543;image
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JDorfler on Sun, 09 November 2014, 09:38:45
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Parak on Sun, 09 November 2014, 21:47:04
Hmm.. eh, why not.

1. NKRO will not make you a better gamer.
2. Nor, to a large extent, will your switch choice.
3. Paying more for keycap(s) than the keyboard that they are on is hilarious.
4. Ditto for the case.
5. All vanilla physical (ANSI/ISO/etc) keyboard layouts are terrible outdated relics.
6. Any key larger than ~1.75x, especially the spacebar, is a waste of space.
7. Reports of the same cherry switches feeling different from one plate mount board to another, or one pcb mount board to another, is basically confirmation bias.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: exitfire401 on Sun, 09 November 2014, 21:51:14
I only really have a couple.

1) I love backlighting. I don't care if it makes me look like a child, I like seeing flashing lights and colors. It amuses me.
2) Topre is a rubber dome. I love me my springy rubber domes.

Can't think of anything else at the moment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: GL1TCH3D on Sun, 09 November 2014, 22:15:29
1. I love 40%

2. I love DSA (not really unpopular but a lot of people dislike DSA as well)

3. I like the HHKB layout. Though I definitely think the price is really high for what you get.

4. I very much dislike the Razer Kailh switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 09 November 2014, 22:17:43
3. Paying more for keycap(s) than the keyboard that they are on is hilarious.
4. Ditto for the case.
In some instances, the case will cost more than the rest of the keyboard. In fact, that's the case with almost every metal case, except for minimalist 60% ones. Machined aluminum just costs more than a PCB or switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 10 November 2014, 09:09:12
Hmm.. eh, why not.

1. NKRO will not make you a better gamer.
...<snip>
5. All vanilla physical (ANSI/ISO/etc) keyboard layouts are terrible outdated relics.
6. Any key larger than ~1.75x, especially the spacebar, is a waste of space.
7. Reports of the same cherry switches feeling different from one plate mount board to another, or one pcb mount board to another, is basically confirmation bias.

Agree with these.

PBT isn't that much better than ABS

This, too. They both suck compared to POM. ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 10 November 2014, 09:11:51
Finally thought of one:

I don't like "RGB" mods (CMYK, or whatever).

(http://i.imgur.com/LwEHcor.jpg)

They make your keyboard look like it fell from the Playskool tree and hit every Hasbranch on the way down.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 10 November 2014, 10:38:37
GMK RGB mods are the only good one, and that's if they're put on a winkeyless board. you also need to pair them with a dark case or dark keyset in order to bring out the color
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 10 November 2014, 10:59:56
I don't like [...] CMYK

 :eek:   :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: epzy on Mon, 10 November 2014, 11:53:43
Finally thought of one:

I don't like "RGB" mods (CMYK, or whatever).

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/LwEHcor.jpg)


They make your keyboard look like it fell from the Playskool tree and hit every Hasbranch on the way down.

I think they look 10x better on winkeyless keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 10 November 2014, 15:07:23
I don't like [...] CMYK

 :eek:   :(

Yes, CMYK too!    :p
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 10 November 2014, 16:11:02
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 16:19:29
F is no better than M. It might be functionally, in that you get NKRO over 2KRO, but the feeling isn't any better, and neither is the sound. Also, the layouts and boards are ugly, and will never compete with an SSK.
Now that is an unpopular opinion  :-X

I do agree though, ssk looks so much nicer than any F out there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 10 November 2014, 16:51:04
F is no better than M. It might be functionally, in that you get NKRO over 2KRO, but the feeling isn't any better, and neither is the sound. Also, the layouts and boards are ugly, and will never compete with an SSK.

While I don't disagree with your second point, my F AT has a night and day difference in feeling than the Model Ms I've owned and used.  The Model M feels like a toy while the F feels solid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 10 November 2014, 17:04:44
I was bored and waiting for my coffee to take hold, so I decided to tally the unpopular opinions, summarizing them into categories. There is no nuance to this chart and some opinions were either clearly not unpopular (60% is awesome is not an unpopular opinion) or were too lengthy and specific to be worth trying to simplify. Through my extremely unscientific analysis, I present to you the most popular "unpopular opinions" of the thread as of the time of posting!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z6RsOY9.png)


Love is the true unpopular opinion.  :'(

Hoffy bb you have my love
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 17:23:33
F is no better than M. It might be functionally, in that you get NKRO over 2KRO, but the feeling isn't any better, and neither is the sound. Also, the layouts and boards are ugly, and will never compete with an SSK.

While I don't disagree with your second point, my F AT has a night and day difference in feeling than the Model Ms I've owned and used.  The Model M feels like a toy while the F feels solid.
Yes, I think everything about the model f outside of the layout is better than the mode m. It's just so crisp in comparison to the m. But I guess it's all opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NeedAFix on Mon, 10 November 2014, 17:37:38
Here may be an unpopular keyboard opinion:  Keyboards are great melee weapons.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blackehart on Mon, 10 November 2014, 17:40:04
Here may be an unpopular keyboard opinion:  Keyboards are great melee weapons.

Nope. Not unpopular.

That's why I invested in customs with metal cases....might have to go upside the heads of a couple of zombies when the zombie apocalypse hits...

 :p

Or just to have handy in case you need to go upside someone's head...


 :p
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:06:08
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:09:08
Let's change the title to "Refute others' unpopular opinions by stating popular opinion".

Honestly, the fact that people actually argued with you about it means that yours is the only truly unpopular opinion.

Most of the others are opinions that a lot of people hold, but they're not vocal in the community.  Not liking F over M is legitimately unpopular.  So you should feel good.  But you should also feel bad because you're wrong.  xD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:11:34
Let's change the title to "Refute others' unpopular opinions by stating popular opinion".

Honestly, the fact that people actually argued with you about it means that yours is the only truly unpopular opinion.

Most of the others are opinions that a lot of people hold, but they're not vocal in the community.  Not liking F over M is legitimately unpopular.  So you should feel good.  But you should also feel bad because you're wrong.  xD
This
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dub on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:15:19
1. Linear switches are horrible.
2. Artisan keycaps look horrible (I do appreciate the artistry involved though).
3. Rainbow/multicolored/transparent keycaps look trashy.
4. I hate any keyboard that does not have arrow keys (I love the look of them).
5. Gaming keyboards.... ew
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:17:16
Everyone hates linear switches
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:17:47
1. Linear switches are horrible.
3. Rainbow/multicolored/transparent keycaps look trashy.
5. Gaming keyboards.... ew
popular opinions
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:21:20
Soo according to the responses in this thread, my opinion should truly be unpopular:
I think linear switches are fantastic!

fite me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:23:00
Everyone hates linear switches
Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)


Ghost Blacks/Reds = Best Goddamn Cherry switches aside from Ergo Clears.  Second only in awesomeness to Green Alps, but even then it's a close one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:29:30
Everyone hates linear switches
Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)

I love them! You and I are #teamlinear
To everyone else,
(http://i.imgur.com/bfSCxx1.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:31:08
Everyone hates linear switches
Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)

I love them! You and I are #teamlinear
To everyone else,
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/bfSCxx1.jpg)


Can I join the linear team? (he says typing on 100g clears with a linear keyboard collecting dust and waiting to be desoldered)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:38:47
If it doesn't click, it's ****.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:40:34
Everyone hates linear switches
Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)


Ghost Blacks/Reds = Best Goddamn Cherry switches aside from Ergo Clears.  Second only in awesomeness to Green Alps, but even then it's a close one.
Is ghost black a black switch with clear springs? I have clear springs sitting around so I could do that.

I might try that if I ever get a 360 corsa, but that won't happen  :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:42:35
Everyone hates linear switches
Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bc.gif)


Ghost Blacks/Reds = Best Goddamn Cherry switches aside from Ergo Clears.  Second only in awesomeness to Green Alps, but even then it's a close one.
Is ghost black a black switch with clear springs? I have clear springs sitting around so I could do that.

I might try that if I ever get a 360 corsa, but that won't happen  :'(
Yep! Black/Red stem with clear spring. I've wanted to try that for a while too, but I've become very accustomed and comfortable with 62g blacks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Latin00032 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 18:56:20
Sometimes I actually like to switch from using mx and topre to regular rubber domes.

I think I like the change in feeling.

But, for the most part, I like mx.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Mon, 10 November 2014, 19:17:26
+1 for linear team. MX Black is the "true" Cherry MX, after all; everything else is basically a jury rigged modification.

So I suspect this one might be fairly unpopular: The ability to change/replace keycaps is unimportant. Non-standard keycap sizes are a good thing, because variety is the spice of life.

Also, big-ass enter is awesome. I need to get another keyboard with that sometime...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Mon, 10 November 2014, 19:30:31
this thread sucks.

and the beatles are horrible.


80% of the **** said here is not even close to being an unpopular opinion.

here's one.

if you can't touch type, why the **** are you spending 60+ on a keyboard.


most of these are just preferences. including the **** i've said myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Schwarz on Mon, 10 November 2014, 22:27:12
I'll agree with that, I always cringe when I see a mechanical/topre review and the person can't even touch type. Jesus Christ, I don't care if it's how you learned. Unlearn your bad habits and do it right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Veridis on Mon, 10 November 2014, 23:16:18
+1 on people who can't touch type..  =x
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: snipars on Mon, 10 November 2014, 23:52:29
WASD keyboards are dreadful
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 10 November 2014, 23:58:21
WASD keyboards are dreadful

Most people find them pretty good.

Any reason you feel they are dreadful?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Grim Fandango on Tue, 11 November 2014, 01:22:18
this thread sucks.

and the beatles are horrible.


80% of the **** said here is not even close to being an unpopular opinion.

here's one.

if you can't touch type, why the **** are you spending 60+ on a keyboard.


most of these are just preferences. including the **** i've said myself.

Most are just "disagree with the general attitude towards this of the forum"-opinions. They are not really that shocking.

Non touch-typist simply wasting their money on expensive keyboards is something that I think is indeed an unpopular opinion. I know there are quite a few of those people on geekhack. I would be lying if I said that I have not thought this every time someone mentions they do not touch type. I also think that the main benefit in terms of feel of a keyboard is mostly lost on those who do not touch type.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: divito on Tue, 11 November 2014, 01:46:38
Non touch-typist simply wasting their money on expensive keyboards is something that I think is indeed an unpopular opinion. I know there are quite a few of those people on geekhack. I would be lying if I said that I have not thought this every time someone mentions they do not touch type. I also think that the main benefit in terms of feel of a keyboard is mostly lost on those who do not touch type.

This. Same thing kind of applies to legended caps as well. There are some where simply the aesthetic value works, but most other times, it's fairly pointless.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jackalope on Tue, 11 November 2014, 02:06:16
Cant stand led's on keyboards, with the exception of num lock.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 11 November 2014, 02:28:54
my favorite numpad is my microwave.

MEMBRANE NO DOME MASTER RACE
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 11 November 2014, 03:32:21
i can type without looking at the board, but i have a very unorthodox finger placement scheme. am i still qualified as a touch typist?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 11 November 2014, 03:36:42
my favorite numpad is my microwave.
My favorite is the pad for entering the code to open my garage door. No one will ever guess the code, as it involves pressing the enter key three times (it doesn’t register unless you press the **** out of it, and even when you know that, it’s impossible to press hard enough on the first try; fortunately the number keys seem to work at least 80% of the time).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 11 November 2014, 03:38:53
i can type without looking at the board, but i have a very unorthodox finger placement scheme. am i still qualified as a touch typist?
Yes. Being a “touch typist” isn’t worth much though, it’s just a label.

What kind of typing speed can you get with your unorthodox scheme? How unorthodox are we talking here? Most (but not all) of the unorthodox schemes I’ve seen are unorthodox because they’re bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yasuo on Tue, 11 November 2014, 03:41:15
2switch more stable than stabs
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 11 November 2014, 03:55:56
What kind of typing speed can you get with your unorthodox scheme? How unorthodox are we talking here? Most (but not all) of the unorthodox schemes I’ve seen are unorthodox because they’re bad.
i mostly just don't have a pattern and deviate my finger placement based on words. for example, "OPA" would be right index finger - right middle finger, but "KOP" would be right index - right middle - right ring. i also move my hands around a lot instead of leaving them in a central position like good touch typists do.

my highest WPM at 10FF is around 90, but i'm probably a 70-75 in practice. a bit faster than average but pales in comparison to any decent typist
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 11 November 2014, 04:01:28
i mostly just don't have a pattern and deviate my finger placement based on words. for example, "OPA" would be right index finger - right middle finger, but "KOP" would be right index - right middle - right ring. i also move my hands around a lot instead of leaving them in a central position like good touch typists do.
I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with that, but I expect it takes more practice and thought to type fast in such a scheme, because the muscle memory is a bit tougher if you can’t mostly associate particular letters with particular fingers. I suspect the difference would get particularly noticeable with a better-than-QWERTY letter arrangement designed with a standard-ish touch typing technique in mind. On the flipside, some of the fastest typists in the world have similar ad-hoc techniques.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 11 November 2014, 04:08:19
i did try Colemak but quit after a few hours, couldn't get anything done with it

the muscle memory is a bit tougher if you can’t mostly associate particular letters with particular fingers
yep, it's most noticeable when typing an unfamiliar word, i would make all sorts of mistakes. sometimes i have to mentally spell out a word and type it off that, which isn't much different from just looking at the keyboard legends
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JaccoW on Tue, 11 November 2014, 05:48:25
Hmmmm, I see a lot of repeat opinions here so let me just add a few more:

1. Anything lighter than MX Clears or MX Blacks is for weak fingered pussies.
2. MX Blue feels and sounds horrible. MX Green, while better, still feels and sounds cheap.
3. 60% boards are unergonomic as soon as you have to do anything that is not on the standard layout.
4. PBT is overrated. I prefer the feel of GMK ABS, especially when slick
5. I have yet to find a beige set that I really liked.
6. There are no good looking backlit compatible keycaps
7. SP translucent doubleshots look horrible
8. Keysets that lack nubs on the F and J keys are stupid
9. Dolch is boring. Classy but boring
10. Beige keysets with grey modifiers looks awful. It's not retro. It's dirty.
11. Backlit only looks good with the right keycaps or when done right. Like I did. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 11 November 2014, 12:22:23
8. Keysets that lack nubs on the F and J keys are stupid

That seems pretty popular.

SCOOPS 4 LYFE!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: snipars on Tue, 11 November 2014, 13:56:57
WASD keyboards are dreadful

Most people find them pretty good.

Any reason you feel they are dreadful?
 
the crappy keycaps ruin the switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 11 November 2014, 14:00:04
WASD keyboards are dreadful

Most people find them pretty good.

Any reason you feel they are dreadful?
 
the crappy keycaps ruin the switches

it sucks that you cant change them. OH WAIT YOU CAN.

thus not making their boards bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: faceyourfaces on Tue, 11 November 2014, 14:13:56
WASD keyboards are dreadful

Most people find them pretty good.

Any reason you feel they are dreadful?
 
the crappy keycaps ruin the switches

it sucks that you cant change them. OH WAIT YOU CAN.

thus not making their boards bad.

The main appeal of the V2 is the ability to customize the artwork on the keycaps, so a buyer likely wouldn't even want to have to change them.
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 11 November 2014, 14:15:54
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Grim Fandango on Tue, 11 November 2014, 14:57:36
WASD keyboards are dreadful

Most people find them pretty good.

Any reason you feel they are dreadful?
 
the crappy keycaps ruin the switches

it sucks that you cant change them. OH WAIT YOU CAN.

thus not making their boards bad.

The main appeal of the V2 is the ability to customize the artwork on the keycaps, so a buyer likely wouldn't even want to have to change them.

On the other hand they are one of the few (the only?) sellers that let you buy their keyboards without keycaps. Since they offer the keyboard "barebones" I think you can not really say their entire product sucks. But are they not simply ABS, OEM profile keycaps? Is there any specific reason why they are terrible? Because I did not know this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: connorelsea on Tue, 11 November 2014, 15:00:50
The appeal of the WASD V2 TKL is that it is being sold barebones and it has a sleek, logo-less, and well-built body. I love the body of the TKL. I am using caps that I bought elsewhere. I wanted a rugged body with straight lines.

So not only does it offer customization if you order their key caps, but you can also buy it as a blank slate to put whatever you want on it! It's been pretty great so far.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 11 November 2014, 16:47:03
WASD keyboards are dreadful [...] the crappy keycaps ruin the switches

On the other hand they are one of the few (the only?) sellers that let you buy their keyboards without keycaps. Since they offer the keyboard "barebones" I think you can not really say their entire product sucks. But are they not simply ABS, OEM profile keycaps? Is there any specific reason why they are terrible? Because I did not know this.

They’re just normal not-too-thick pad-printed ABS OEM-profile keycaps. Presumably snipars really doesn’t like that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 11 November 2014, 16:58:12
WASD are the only one offering clear/green in ISO version , if you don't want to take out the iron , they're great .

their low quality keycaps please the one that want stupid looking boards , normal people will buy them barebone .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: saint_james on Tue, 11 November 2014, 18:01:47
Here's an unpopular opinion for y'all:  I love my WASD v2 keyboard.  The stock UV-treated ABS keycaps are not really bad at all.  I slightly prefer the thick PBT Leopold caps but the stock caps are not obviously inferior.  I believe most of the hate felt towards WASD keycaps is rooted in the previous version before the current UV treated caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 11 November 2014, 18:11:18
The main appeal is the cheap cost for such customization, which comes at the sacrifice in cap quality. Not nearly as many people (outside of this site, aka the real world, which everyone seems to ignore) would be interested in paying for something else.

No one else offers what WASD offers, and you should appreciate them for that.

bingo.

the people that care about cap feel (us) already know not to expect the greatest of quality from wasd's keycaps. that's why they offer a barebones model.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vibex on Tue, 11 November 2014, 18:23:04
MX Browns are the best (MX) Switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: snipars on Tue, 11 November 2014, 19:21:07
Here's an unpopular opinion for y'all:  I love my WASD v2 keyboard.  The stock UV-treated ABS keycaps are not really bad at all.  I slightly prefer the thick PBT Leopold caps but the stock caps are not obviously inferior.  I believe most of the hate felt towards WASD keycaps is rooted in the previous version before the current UV treated caps.
 
 
i own and have used both types of WASD's keycaps, although i don't know which is which, the ones i bought first are a fair bit better than the newer ones, although both sets are completely rubbish 
it's neat that they offer customisation the way they do, and the keyboard itself is perfectly great, but the keycaps are just so bad that they ruin the keyboard they're on 
maybe you got lucky with yours and somehow got better keycaps, if that's at all possible
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Coreda on Wed, 12 November 2014, 03:41:06
After using Cherry Reds for several months now I find when using my MacBook's keyboad it can be more satisfying to type on, and vastly more quiet.

*Gasp*

Zero fatigue with the Cherry Reds for long periods however, and I like the board in many other ways.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Thu, 13 November 2014, 12:09:38
I don't care about a keyboard's appearance very much at all beyond it being clean. I have some vague preferences, but I would certainly never spend a penny on anything like coloured keycaps or a fancy design. I don't understand why anyone would.
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 13 November 2014, 12:27:45
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Thu, 13 November 2014, 12:55:51
I don't care about a keyboard's appearance very much at all beyond it being clean. I have some vague preferences, but I would certainly never spend a penny on anything like coloured keycaps or a fancy design. I don't understand why anyone would.

Yeah, man. Me either. How can, in a world of billions and billions of people, there be any preference or difference. I just can't fathom it.

It's not the fact that people have different preferences that confuses me, it's the reasons for this particular preference. I don't care if you prefer different things; by all means go ahead. I just will likely never share this particular one.

I thought this thread was for unpopular opinions. Must you pounce on people who dare actually voice one?
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 13 November 2014, 13:01:37
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tutuling on Thu, 13 November 2014, 13:08:23
Like the 60% size, however, after using the poker for awhile, getting hard without standard arrow clusters.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Thu, 13 November 2014, 14:16:17
I was only ****ing with you. I don't honestly care how you feel. Either way, the words you used this time ("will likely never share") better showed what you meant than saying you didn't understand.

But haven't you heard? We're changing the title: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65341.msg1532837#msg1532837

Fair enough, sorry for overreacting. I'll probably never wrap my head around wanting the escape key of your keyboard to be a red Darth Vader mask (surely black??) but to each his own I suppose.

That all said, I am kind of curious to know what the most unpopular keyboard opinion possible might be. I'll list a few attempts; if anyone's Jimmies are rustled just let me know I'm on the right track.
That last one actually makes even me a little butthurt.
Title: .
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 13 November 2014, 14:19:24
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 13 November 2014, 14:44:36
  • Why would anyone buy an expensive keyboard? They're all the same.
  • Why buy a keyboard at all? Don't you know there is one built into an iPad? PCs are dead bro.
  • Model Ms are old and ugly. I personally rounded up dozens of them and took them to be recycled and put out of their misery.
  • Your keyboard was clicking really loudly so I figured it was broken and threw it out.
  • People who think keyboards improve their gaming skills probably suck at gaming.
  • Ripster is, was, and will always be the foremost expert on all things keyboards, whose genius and devotion are rivaled only by his modesty and restraint.
nice list, almost as good as this classic "what does it take to run a GB" post: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62256.msg1513952#msg1513952[/list]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Glod on Thu, 13 November 2014, 16:54:09
This is seriously a thread of hate.

wtf
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 13 November 2014, 16:56:45
This is seriously a thread of hate.

wtf

At least it's contained for once...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 13 November 2014, 16:59:46
You guys know that I have to re-post this at least twice a year:


Quote from: Anonymous Coward

I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."

Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.

Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.

And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 13 November 2014, 17:02:21
This is seriously a thread of hate.
Everyone needs to be a troll sometimes. It’s best if we can keep it confined to the “off topic” subforum, but sticking it all in one thread is also not too bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Thu, 13 November 2014, 17:39:15
I'm too new and stupid to back up any other opinions I may have about keyboards.  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Glod on Thu, 13 November 2014, 18:37:52
There is nothing educational about this thread, it's all just the usual hateful circle jerking.

Something educational would be if there was a thread where people who like different things showed appreciation and respect for each other. All people are doing here is taking a personal bad experience with something or someone else's bad experience with something and trying to make it a majority opinion.

Example: "I'm a programmer and I think the 60% boards are stupid because it's missing keys. Therefore I conclude that ALL programmers must hate 60% boards" same examples for ergodox, to pre, colemak, 40%, backlit, the lists go on and on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 13 November 2014, 18:43:44
Kinda surprised this isn't an off topic post...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 13 November 2014, 19:21:07
Kinda surprised this isn't an off topic post...

This is a keyboard forum, and this thread is about keyboards.

Therefore:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Thu, 13 November 2014, 23:23:25
There is nothing educational about this thread, it's all just the usual hateful circle jerking.

Something educational would be if there was a thread where people who like different things showed appreciation and respect for each other. All people are doing here is taking a personal bad experience with something or someone else's bad experience with something and trying to make it a majority opinion.

Example: "I'm a programmer and I think the 60% boards are stupid because it's missing keys. Therefore I conclude that ALL programmers must hate 60% boards" same examples for ergodox, to pre, colemak, 40%, backlit, the lists go on and on.

You telling me that I'm wrong about my opinion of this thread is strangely ironic. But I do find it educational, perhaps just not about the things you think I meant. I find it educational to observe how "elder" users behave and react to others, for just one example.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ArchieTect on Thu, 13 November 2014, 23:26:24
I love cherry blacks, that linear feel is so smooth compared to typing with browns which is like typing on cobblestones. Don't even go to the rest of the cherrys.

HHKBs are like Louboutin
Topres are like Diesel brand
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DrHubblePhD on Sun, 16 November 2014, 10:03:04
I love cherry blacks, that linear feel is so smooth compared to typing with browns which is like typing on cobblestones. Don't even go to the rest of the cherrys.

HHKBs are like Louboutin
Topres are like Diesel brand


But I really like cobblestone typing!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lastpilot on Sun, 16 November 2014, 11:44:49
- Spirit Blue / Ice Blue is the best blue. Possibly best color ever.
- Typing on a flat board. I never use feet. Recently took off the riser on my LZ, love it even more.
- I will always pay more to avoid an acrylic custom. Mechanical keyboards are forever, but acrylic is not.
- Normal cables are sometimes just as good as custom cables. I had a white cable from Amazon that I used for the longest time and it looked just fine with my boards.
- I love LED's
- I love wearing a respirator during heavy assembly soldering/desoldering.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 16 November 2014, 11:54:29
- Typing on a flat board. I never use feet. Recently took off the riser on my LZ, love it even more.
- I will always pay more to avoid an acrylic custom. Mechanical keyboards are forever, but acrylic is not.
popular
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 16 November 2014, 12:08:35
Contoured / sculpted SA profile is better than Cherry profile (and all other common profiles) for correctly positioned and angled keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EvilOliv3 on Mon, 17 November 2014, 05:38:43
lmao, is this an unpopular opinion thread or a hate thread? Most people seem to be using this as a hate ventilator.

I mean, wtf are these s***?
"Anything lighter than MX Clears or MX Blacks is for weak fingered pussies"
"Paying more for keycap(s) than the keyboard that they are on is hilarious"
"Backlit is for 12 year olds"
 "Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?" ...


State "I don't like such and such", don't add your bs hate into it. Otherwise, people might actually use their Mech boards as a melee weapon...haha just kidding...maybe...



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JaccoW on Mon, 17 November 2014, 05:59:31
GTFO with your reason!

Most of this is tongue in cheek. There is a reason why all those opinions are posted here.
Some people might feel very strong about things like backlight and switch types but they realize those are personal opinions. That's why you rarely see them in normal KB conversation.

Also, non-MX-Clear is for the weak. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:19:00

people might actually use their Mech boards as a melee weapon...haha just kidding...maybe...


If they are Model Fs or Logic Controls. Otherwise they will be at a serious disadvantage.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:26:16
I don't like Topre's sound. But the switch construction is excellent.

I can never understand people mentioning 1.25x versus 1.5x keycap size. And I find endless debates on the font of keycap legends ridiculous.

I can't tell from my head whether my metal keycap puller came from my Filco Majestouch TKL, or whether my transparent plastic cover came from my CM Storm QF TKL, or which one of them has a detachable USB cord.

MX green is the best of MX.

MX black/red and Razer - Kailh green/orange are fully legitimate switches for office keyboards.

A standard keyboard should have a tenkey (at least an embedded one), because 99% users can touch-type numbers on it.

A standard keyboard should be ortho-linear, because 99% users are hunt-and-peckers on the alphanumeric array.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:28:26

people might actually use their Mech boards as a melee weapon...haha just kidding...maybe...


If they are Model Fs or Logic Controls. Otherwise they will be at a serious disadvantage.
I beg to differ:

(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/ovkAAOSwEK9T~6sV/$_1.JPG)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: billnye on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:38:03
Winkey is for plebs, winkeyLESS looks sooo much better, especially with blockers

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2950/15473451482_3ec2feb306_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f)untitled-39 (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f) by photekq-gh (https://www.flickr.com/people/115722906@N08/), on Flickr

I guess this really isn't that unpopular, but the majority of people use winkey boards so maybe it kinda is unpopular? :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rainbow_ on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:53:58
Winkey is for plebs, winkey looks sooo much better, especially with blockers

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2950/15473451482_3ec2feb306_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f)untitled-39 (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f) by photekq-gh (https://www.flickr.com/people/115722906@N08/), on Flickr

I guess this really isn't that unpopular, but the majority of people use winkey boards so maybe it kinda is unpopular? :))

Did you mean winkeyless looks best?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: billnye on Mon, 17 November 2014, 08:55:16
Winkey is for plebs, winkey looks sooo much better, especially with blockers

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2950/15473451482_3ec2feb306_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f)untitled-39 (https://flic.kr/p/pzku3f) by photekq-gh (https://www.flickr.com/people/115722906@N08/), on Flickr

I guess this really isn't that unpopular, but the majority of people use winkey boards so maybe it kinda is unpopular? :))

Did you mean winkeyless looks best?

Haha, yea. Just making sure you're all paying attention ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:17:22
I don't like switch "stickers".  The whole idea just bothers me.   Looks and sounds like Placebo Effect.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:18:03
I liked the Ducky Shine 4 knobs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: billnye on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:19:25
I don't like switch "stickers".  The whole idea just bothers me.   Looks and sounds like Placebo Effect.

Bro, the only way to type over 100 WPM is with switch stickers. Totally real.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:24:17
I don't like switch "stickers".  The whole idea just bothers me.   Looks and sounds like Placebo Effect.

Bro, the only way to type over 100 WPM is with switch stickers. Totally real.
(http://i.imgur.com/YWFpuTq.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:28:46
I liked the Ducky Shine 4 knobs.

I think this is the one truly unpopular opinion in this thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lurch on Mon, 17 November 2014, 11:49:38
 :-\
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Grim Fandango on Mon, 17 November 2014, 12:00:30
I have a hard time believing people spending a lot of time behind their keyboard for work would willingly opt for switches with over 50g actuation force. I have tried it, and like heavier switches for short periods of time (for home use for example it is fine). But I also tried it for work, and from my perspective, it is kind of insane.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 17 November 2014, 12:10:26
I have a hard time believing people spending a lot of time behind their keyboard for work would willingly opt for switches with over 50g actuation force. I have tried it, and like heavier switches for short periods of time (for home use for example it is fine). But I also tried it for work, and from my perspective, it is kind of insane.

65g Ergo Clears at work, wouldn't have it any other way...other than 70g Ergo Clears.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Mon, 17 November 2014, 13:28:49
I have a hard time believing people spending a lot of time behind their keyboard for work would willingly opt for switches with over 50g actuation force. I have tried it, and like heavier switches for short periods of time (for home use for example it is fine). But I also tried it for work, and from my perspective, it is kind of insane.

I have a hard time believing anyone would spend money on colourful keycaps for any reason, and yet people seem to do it anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tiramisuu on Mon, 17 November 2014, 16:45:46
nonprogrammable primary layers and artisan keycaps both give me gas.

Ieds on keyboards make my eyes bleed

$400 for a keyboard is stupid.

Bluetooth devices and usb keyboards..  Wtf?

That's all the hate load can manage for  now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 17 November 2014, 16:53:08
I have a hard time believing people spending a lot of time behind their keyboard for work would willingly opt for switches with over 50g actuation force. I have tried it, and like heavier switches for short periods of time (for home use for example it is fine). But I also tried it for work, and from my perspective, it is kind of insane.
Considering all the stock Cherry MX switches (except maybe MX red) require actuation force above 50g, as do basically all other keyboard switches I can think of, outside some very low force ones used on stenography keyboards or similar, your comment basically boils down to saying that you can’t believe anyone doesn’t hand-modify every keyswitch on every keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Tue, 18 November 2014, 02:42:02

Also, non-MX-Clear is for the weak.

ergoclears?

more like 'ergo you are too weak'  amirite?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: beefjerky on Tue, 18 November 2014, 05:08:49
Most artisan caps look like someone took a blowtorch to a keycap.

Cylindrical profile is far and away better than spherical profile.

Any keyboard under 60% is useless for actual work. Even 60% handicaps unnecessarily.

I trust someone else much more than myself to put together a keyboard and thus I will almost never get a DIY kit (chickened out of the Massdrop infinity and just bought a Poker II instead)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JaccoW on Tue, 18 November 2014, 06:07:27
Also, non-MX-Clear is for the weak.
ergoclears?
more like 'ergo you are too weak'  amirite?
YES
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Tue, 18 November 2014, 07:51:50
Cherry MX is only good for Hybrid keyboards so Alps users can get some Novelty keycap love :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frosty on Tue, 18 November 2014, 08:36:37
u need a spanking
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 18 November 2014, 08:47:36
Alps switches are superior to Cherry switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 18 November 2014, 08:51:42
Alps switches are superior to Cherry switches.

Well that's just the truth...unless you're talking about Black Alps, those just suck.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nesiax on Mon, 05 January 2015, 10:32:17
how about this raibow? :eek: not childish i think
Show Image
(http://www.key64.org/images/key64_ergonomic_keyboard_as_of_20130315.jpg/image_preview)


I bought color keycaps because I guess it will make the keyboard appealing for children, so I could introduce them into the exquisite art of touch typing, this way a child will know that every color corresponds to a specific finger and also it will be easy for them to found an A-pink key or a R-yellow rather than an A-black or and R-black.  Sounds crazy ? look at this thread at slashdot where  Finland dump handwriting in favor of touch typing (http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/11/29/1825237/finland-dumps-handwriting-in-favor-of-typing). However I do not agree with the fact children are not going to learn handwriting since I pretty sure it helps to develop prime mover skills as required.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 05 January 2015, 11:42:55
They'll still learn handwriting, only cursive is supposed to be optional.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Mon, 05 January 2015, 22:00:06
To the people that said BS sucks, I say to you you suck....lol.  Jk?  At any rate what'd don't you like about them and have you tried both m/f?
Also what do you like.  I've tried a fairly wide range of switches I think.  The big ones I haven't are blue alps, topre, mx black, and mx red along with more less popular variants and other vintage switches.  Of note,  didn't want to read 16 pages of tap talk to maybe find the answers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 05 January 2015, 22:02:27
To the people that said BS sucks, I say to you you suck....lol.  Jk?  At any rate what'd don't you like about them and have you tried both m/f?
Also what do you like.  I've tried a fairly wide range of switches I think.  The big ones I haven't are blue alps, topre, mx black, and mx red along with more less popular variants and other vintage switches.  Of note,  didn't want to read 16 pages of tap talk to maybe find the answers.

Model M BS does suck. Model F is awesome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Mon, 05 January 2015, 22:05:47
To the people that said BS sucks, I say to you you suck....lol.  Jk?  At any rate what'd don't you like about them and have you tried both m/f?
Also what do you like.  I've tried a fairly wide range of switches I think.  The big ones I haven't are blue alps, topre, mx black, and mx red along with more less popular variants and other vintage switches.  Of note,  didn't want to read 16 pages of tap talk to maybe find the answers.

Model M BS does suck. Model F is awesome.

M2 > F > M (1390120) > SSK > M > Unicomp
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Mon, 05 January 2015, 22:06:14
To the people that said BS sucks, I say to you you suck....lol.  Jk?  At any rate what'd don't you like about them and have you tried both m/f?
Also what do you like.  I've tried a fairly wide range of switches I think.  The big ones I haven't are blue alps, topre, mx black, and mx red along with more less popular variants and other vintage switches.  Of note,  didn't want to read 16 pages of tap talk to maybe find the answers.

Model M BS does suck. Model F is awesome.

Lies!

F>m2>m.

Love all 3 lol

@dante woah s fellow m2 lover.  That has to be unpopular lol
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 05 January 2015, 22:14:24
M2? Are you people serious? Sheesh. M2 is a much less crisp force curve than either M or F. M2 is the black Alps of buckling spring switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Mon, 05 January 2015, 23:06:13
M2? Are you people serious? Sheesh. M2 is a much less crisp force curve than either M or F. M2 is the black Alps of buckling spring switches.

Is the M2 less sturdy and less well made than other M's?  Yes.

IMHO is the M2 still more fun than typing on other M's?  Yes.

Black Alps huh? :D  I'd say M2 is more like the equivalent of Ducky XM Green Alps :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 05 January 2015, 23:14:22
M2?  I never typed on one so I can't tell you to be honest.  The only one I encountered had a broken spacebar, and I had my other keyboard anyway.  I just remember that it had some sort of plastic bar underneath it that was broken.  (That's about all I remember.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 01:17:40
- Thread necromancy is fun.
- I like MX browns.
- Keyboards without a numpad are fundamentally crippled. Having the numpad embedded as a FN layer is only acceptable if the keyboard has an ortholinear layout, and even then is annoying because I don't want to have to sit there holding a key. And apparently some separate numpads don't actually send the right codes so they're useless for the other thing I commonly use my numpad for, which is alt codes? Derp.
- It is infuriating, however, that numpads have a useless double-width zero and not a , key so that I don't have to use two hands or move my hand when typing something like 32,656,365. Not only do they need to exist, they need a , key.
- Keyboards without a windows key are completely useless. I use win key shortcuts all the time, and have never accidentally pressed it in a game.
- Enough keyboards are made with non-standard layouts like 1.5 1 1.5 6 1.5 1 1 1.5 and similar that I really wish places would start making keycap sets or partial sets to accommodate such things, since sadly nobody is going to be able to beat the 1.25 1.25 1.25 6.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 spacing into everyone, and even if they did, boards with nonstandard bottom rows already exist.
- My crappy old low-profile rubberdome Acer keyboard that came with my last computer was better for some games than my Monoprice with MX Blues.
- Artisan keycaps need to come in prettier colours and nicer shapes. They're a cool enough concept, but all the creepy faces/masks and boring/garish colours are kind of eh. Like, where's my clear sky blue iridescent microglitter mini castle? (Actually, I'm a tabletop gamer. That brings up a thought that I want to see Chessex making keycaps along with dice. Imagine an entire keyset of, say, Borealis Royal Purple. Your eyes would never recover and it'd be slipperier than a worn ABS spacebar, but damn would it look amazing.)
- Backlighting is only acceptable if it looks like a Christmas tree had a baby with your keyboard. If its only purpose is to illuminate the legends I'm not looking at when I type anyway, what's the point? I want to lose hours poking at a keyboard that does completely useless things with the lights when I press a key, or have it not light up at all except to tell me if I've accidentally hit caps lock.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Khers on Tue, 06 January 2015, 06:05:02
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 06 January 2015, 08:03:27

- It is infuriating, however, that numpads have a useless double-width zero and not a , key so that I don't have to use two hands or move my hand when typing something like 32,656,365. Not only do they need to exist, they need a , key.


I kind of like the numpad "0" but there is surely a need for a comma over there.

And, if you shrunk both the "0" and the "+" you could get another ":" (colon) which would be great for time and ratios.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Xonar on Tue, 06 January 2015, 08:49:02
1. I think full size keyboards are the only ones worth using for an extended period of time.
2. My $5 White Alps keyboard will always be more fun to type on than a $500 custom Cherry board.
3. MX Browns aren't as bad as everyone says.
4. Cherry stabilizers are not terrible.
5. Trackballs are the worst.
6. The ErgoDox isn't appealing to me in the least.
7. HP's silver and black rubberdome board that I'm sure everyone here has encountered at some point isn't all that bad.
8. Artisan caps can look cool but not worth the high prices that they can fetch.
9. You can never have too many IBM keyboards.
10. Unicomp quality isn't as good but they feel exactly the same as a brand new original Model M. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
11. Heavily used Model M's feel better than new ones.
12. The XT Model F is not even worth owning because of that layout.
13. You're doing it wrong if you aren't bottoming out.
14. Apple makes the best scissor switch keyboards.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Tue, 06 January 2015, 08:54:15
BROWNS SUCK
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Tue, 06 January 2015, 14:05:26
-Every keyboard should have cable channels and rubber feet on all four corners.

-All keyboards using micro USB connectors should have L-shaped connectors, and ideally can rotate to both directions.

-Forcing two-handed operation of Fn layer combo keys should only be the last resort if one-handed possibilities are completely unavailable.

-Stop building hand-rests into keyboards. No one wants to use hard-plastic hand-rests when we could just buy comfortable foam/silicone/leather ones.

-Stop making keyboards with wide border frames. All they do is take up precious desk space and serve no function.

-All toggle-keys (such as CapsLock, NumLock, Scroll Lock) on a keyboard should have a visual indicator of what state it is in, and ideally it's on the keycap itself.

-We need a much wider variety of high-quality keyboard legend sticker sets--ones that don't rub off after a while, and have lots of varieties in design and color combinations.

-We need a superior version of the silicone keyboard protective skin/covers. The "transparent" ones are only semi-transparent and reduces readability of the legends too much, and the sheets are too thick. Why can't they be as thin and transparent as condoms?

-There needs to be a meet-up in the Sacramento area.

-Using white back-plate for LED backlit keyboards is a horrible idea (Razer Blackwidow Chroma, for example). The illuminated white back-plate is way too bright and competes with the illuminated legends, thus decreasing the readability/contrast of the legends drastically. Either have only the legends illuminated, or only the back-plate illuminated, but not both.

-Numpads on full-sized keyboards should always be on the left side, not the right. Putting it on the right is horrible for ergonomics.

-Fn keys on 60% keyboards should be placed at exactly between the X and C keys, and the M and , keys. Placing them any wider apart becomes less comfortable, while placing them closer together makes the spacebar too short and harder to press comfortably.

-Being able to touch-type is not a good enough reason to not want legends on keycaps. There are plenty of situations when not touch-typing that will be much more convenient to have legends, such as when doing any type of audio/visual content creation, or simply just using lots of shorcuts/hotkeys on complex software when your hands are not in a standard home-row position. That extra split-second it takes you to think when looking at a set of blank keys only slows you down and interrupts your workflow over and over.

-Matias switches should be a lot more popular than they are--especially the quiet switch, because it has excellent tactility and is about as quiet as a standard rubber dome keyboard. Matias switches also have built-in LED on each switch, and no one's really taking advantage of that design, while Cherry MX LED swtiches copied that idea and are getting all the attention.

-Everyone who spends any significant amount of their communication time using a keyboard (messaging, forums, emails) should learn to touch-type fluently. Same for anyone who considers himself a writer, or does a significant amount of typing for any reason (school work, job, whatever).

Being able to touch-type fluently makes a profound difference. Not having to look down at the keyboard and only focusing on what you're typing on the screen is far better for the flow from idea to words appearing on the screen, since a whole layer of interruption/translation has been removed.

Imagine if you are driving a car and must constantly look down to see which gear you're on, which pedal you're stepping on, what direction your blinkers are set to, etc. That's what not being able to touch-type is like.

-Keyboard manufacturers really need to learn a few lessons from headphone manufacturers in terms of using a wider range of interesting, fashionable, and visually pleasing designs and color palettes. The kind of creativity seen in custom/DIY keyboards--that's what we should be seeing from the keyboard manufacturers, instead of the same boring designs, or on the other end of the spectrum, garish gamer-centric designs.

-WASD's custom keycap colors should be expanded to beyond those typical colors. We need colors like tea, cappucchino, cream, copper, gold, silver, khaki, ochre, peach, burgundy, mauve, yellow-green, indigo blue, pale yellow, etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 14:11:05
-Every keyboard should have cable channels and rubber feet on all four corners.

-All keyboards using micro USB connectors should have L-shaped connectors, and ideally can rotate to both directions.

-Stop building hand-rests into keyboards. No one wants to use hard-plastic hand-rests when we could just buy comfortable foam/silicone/leather ones.

-There needs to be a meet-up in the Sacramento area.

-Matias switches should be a lot more popular than they are--especially the quiet switch, because it has excellent tactility and is about as quiet as a standard rubber dome keyboard. Matias switches also have built-in LED on each switch, and no one's really taking advantage of that design, while Cherry MX LED swtiches copied that idea and are getting all the attention.

-Everyone who spends any significant amount of their communication time using a keyboard (messaging, forums, emails) should learn to touch-type fluently. Same for anyone who considers himself a writer, or does a significant amount of typing for any reason (school work, job, whatever).

-WASD's custom keycap colors should be expanded to beyond those typical colors. We need colors like tea, cappucchino, cream, copper, gold, silver, khaki, ochre, peach, burgundy, mauve, yellow-green, indigo blue, pale yellow, etc.
popular opinions

-All toggle-keys (such as CapsLock, NumLock, Scroll Lock) on a keyboard should have a visual indicator of what state it is in, and ideally it's on the keycap itself.
LEDs are a thing
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 14:53:06
-Forcing two-handed operation of Fn layer combo keys should only be the last resort if one-handed possibilities are completely unavailable.
Can you explain this? Two-hand chords are much better for you than one-hand chords. Do you care about this mainly because your right hand is always on a mouse, or...?

Quote
-Stop building hand-rests into keyboards. No one wants to use hard-plastic hand-rests when we could just buy comfortable foam/silicone/leather ones.
People should ditch their palmrests altogether. Problem solved.

Quote
-All toggle-keys (such as CapsLock, NumLock, Scroll Lock) on a keyboard should have a visual indicator of what state it is in, and ideally it's on the keycap itself.
Toggle keys (and in general, other modes in user interfaces) are fundamentally broken. If we had enough thumb keys on a keyboard, we would have no need for modes. Caps lock and num lock are particularly stupid types of modes, based on poorly designed assumptions from 30+ years ago.

[On the other hand, firmware should be programmable enough that if a user really wants to create some kind of mode, e.g. for Photoshop or a game or whatever, it should be easy to do.]

Quote
-We need a much wider variety of high-quality keyboard legend sticker sets--ones that don't rub off after a while, and have lots of varieties in design and color combinations.

-We need a superior version of the silicone keyboard protective skin/covers. The "transparent" ones are only semi-transparent and reduces readability of the legends too much, and the sheets are too thick. Why can't they be as thin and transparent as condoms?
These two are indeed unpopular. Who the hell wants stickers or condoms on their keyboard?

Quote
-Numpads on full-sized keyboards should always be on the left side, not the right. Putting it on the right is horrible for ergonomics.
Numpads are for accountants and data entry clerks. Anyone who isn’t an accountant or data entry clerk doesn’t really need a numpad at all.

Quote
-Being able to touch-type is not a good enough reason to not want legends on keycaps. There are plenty of situations when not touch-typing that will be much more convenient to have legends, such as when doing any type of audio/visual content creation, or simply just using lots of shorcuts/hotkeys on complex software when your hands are not in a standard home-row position. That extra split-second it takes you to think when looking at a set of blank keys only slows you down and interrupts your workflow over and over.
More convenient for you maybe. The statement is only an “unpopular opinion” because you’re judging other people for having different preferences. (And why? Like seriously, who are you to judge what is a good or bad reason for someone else’s preferences.)


Quote
-Keyboard manufacturers really need to learn a few lessons from headphone manufacturers in terms of using a wider range of interesting, fashionable, and visually pleasing designs and color palettes. The kind of creativity seen in custom/DIY keyboards--that's what we should be seeing from the keyboard manufacturers, instead of the same boring designs, or on the other end of the spectrum, garish gamer-centric designs.
Keep in mind, headphones are primarily fashion accessories, and playing music is a secondary function. Keyboards are not fashion accessories, and therefore the market for them is different. The market for stylish keyboards is a tiny tiny niche, because almost no one judges someone by how stylish their keyboard looks, and most keyboards stay at people’s desks. For the same reason, people don’t need to have stylish bathroom scales or stylish waffle irons.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 14:56:42
This is interesting arguing unpopular comments about keyboards?  Is there a plus side to this?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 14:57:08
Keep in mind, headphones are primarily fashion accessories, and playing music is a secondary function.
Tell that to anyone not wearing Beats
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 06 January 2015, 15:11:12
Quote
Quote
-We need a much wider variety of high-quality keyboard legend sticker sets--ones that don't rub off after a while, and have lots of varieties in design and color combinations.

-We need a superior version of the silicone keyboard protective skin/covers. The "transparent" ones are only semi-transparent and reduces readability of the legends too much, and the sheets are too thick. Why can't they be as thin and transparent as condoms?
These two are indeed unpopular. Who the hell wants stickers or condoms on their keyboard?
Well, I do have a condom for my keyboard; it's transparent, thin, whatever. It's supposed to be used in medical institutions.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: drewba on Tue, 06 January 2015, 16:18:06
Quote
-Numpads on full-sized keyboards should always be on the left side, not the right. Putting it on the right is horrible for ergonomics.
Numpads are for accountants and data entry clerks. Anyone who isn’t an accountant or data entry clerk doesn’t really need a numpad at all.

Yes, these are the only two applications where a numpad is necessary  :))     /Eyeroll.exe

My phone system at work is VOIP based, so I'm using my numpad constantly to dial numbers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Tue, 06 January 2015, 17:41:12
Well, I do have a condom for my keyboard; it's transparent, thin, whatever. It's supposed to be used in medical institutions.

More information, please. What is this mythical keyboard condom you speak of?  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rainb1ood on Tue, 06 January 2015, 17:43:05
I don't get the DSA craze this 2014 that happened.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 06 January 2015, 18:16:02
Well, I do have a condom for my keyboard; it's transparent, thin, whatever. It's supposed to be used in medical institutions.

More information, please. What is this mythical keyboard condom you speak of?  :eek:
(http://i.imgur.com/peAf4sz.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Tue, 06 January 2015, 18:33:26
-Forcing two-handed operation of Fn layer combo keys should only be the last resort if one-handed possibilities are completely unavailable.
Can you explain this? Two-hand chords are much better for you than one-hand chords. Do you care about this mainly because your right hand is always on a mouse, or...?

If I happen to be using the other hand, such as holding a drink, a snack, a reference image I'm working from (for art), or playing on a musical keyboard (in the middle of composing/recording), or anything else that requires my other hand, I want to be able to operate the Fn functions with my other hand, such as play/pause/skip music that is playing.

-We need a much wider variety of high-quality keyboard legend sticker sets--ones that don't rub off after a while, and have lots of varieties in design and color combinations.

-We need a superior version of the silicone keyboard protective skin/covers. The "transparent" ones are only semi-transparent and reduces readability of the legends too much, and the sheets are too thick. Why can't they be as thin and transparent as condoms?
These two are indeed unpopular. Who the hell wants stickers or condoms on their keyboard?

Anyone who types in another language and can't find keyboards catering to that language (they make legend replacement stickers in various languages), or people with eye-sight problems (they make large legend stickers), or people who want to highlight certain keys for quicker identification but don't want to swap out entire keys, and so on.

As for a keyboard protector membrane of some kind, if you have never spilled a drink or dropped food crumbs into the crevices of your keyboard, then you wouldn't understand.

-Numpads on full-sized keyboards should always be on the left side, not the right. Putting it on the right is horrible for ergonomics.
Numpads are for accountants and data entry clerks. Anyone who isn’t an accountant or data entry clerk doesn’t really need a numpad at all.

I do content creation (audio/visual), and I use the numpad to into parameter numbers such as exposure, color, contrast, audio sample position, timeline position, synth programming parameters, etc.

-Being able to touch-type is not a good enough reason to not want legends on keycaps. There are plenty of situations when not touch-typing that will be much more convenient to have legends, such as when doing any type of audio/visual content creation, or simply just using lots of shorcuts/hotkeys on complex software when your hands are not in a standard home-row position. That extra split-second it takes you to think when looking at a set of blank keys only slows you down and interrupts your workflow over and over.
More convenient for you maybe. The statement is only an “unpopular opinion” because you’re judging other people for having different preferences. (And why? Like seriously, who are you to judge what is a good or bad reason for someone else’s preferences.)

If my driving analogy didn't convince you, then you won't be convinced, and that's fine.

-Keyboard manufacturers really need to learn a few lessons from headphone manufacturers in terms of using a wider range of interesting, fashionable, and visually pleasing designs and color palettes. The kind of creativity seen in custom/DIY keyboards--that's what we should be seeing from the keyboard manufacturers, instead of the same boring designs, or on the other end of the spectrum, garish gamer-centric designs.
Keep in mind, headphones are primarily fashion accessories, and playing music is a secondary function. Keyboards are not fashion accessories, and therefore the market for them is different. The market for stylish keyboards is a tiny tiny niche, because almost no one judges someone by how stylish their keyboard looks, and most keyboards stay at people’s desks. For the same reason, people don’t need to have stylish bathroom scales or stylish waffle irons.

There are plenty of headphone designs by headphone companies that place audio quality above all else, yet still have beautiful designs that are tasteful and functional, and not at all catered teenagers blindly following trends (look at the headphones around $1,000 or more). Beats is not even really considered part of the head-fi movement, and it's only very recently that the headphone community started to give it a little respect, after they started releasing headphones that actually sounded pretty good, instead of being just fashion pieces that sound like crap.

Also, it's not about judging people by their keyboards--it's about aesthetic pleasure one feels when using one's own keyboards. Good looking design is just a pleasure to behold--you get pleasure from it. If keyboards were simply thought of as completely utilitarian and no one gives a damn about how they look  (like a USB hub or a memory card, for example), then there wouldn't be a hardcore DIY/custom community in the first place.

Well, I do have a condom for my keyboard; it's transparent, thin, whatever. It's supposed to be used in medical institutions.

More information, please. What is this mythical keyboard condom you speak of?  :eek:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/peAf4sz.jpg)


That's basically one of those "shower-cap" styled keyboard protectors. I went through a bunch of those already--they will tear at the spots your nails scrape on most open (it's always the A key for me), and I'd then have to put a piece of clear tape over that spot. Also, it's too loose and not tight enough, so there are wrinkles that reflect the light and obscure the keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 19:36:58
-Forcing two-handed operation of Fn layer combo keys should only be the last resort if one-handed possibilities are completely unavailable.
If I happen to be using the other hand, such as holding a drink, a snack, a reference image I'm working from (for art), or playing on a musical keyboard (in the middle of composing/recording), or anything else that requires my other hand, I want to be able to operate the Fn functions with my other hand, such as play/pause/skip music that is playing.
Play/pause/skip is far from the only thing someone might want to put on a function layer.

For example: I have on function layers: mouse and keyboard navigation (keyboard navigation ends up taking maybe 40-50 shortcuts if you want to be able to do everything, but I still need to work on figuring out the best organization), numbers, symbols of various sorts, alphabets in other languages, common blobs of text I find myself repeatedly typing, tab/window/application switching, quick access to various useful directories, text processing commands, commands for sending the current selection to various applications or dumping it to a file somewhere, commands for popping up the clipboard history and putting stuff onto / off of it, commands for searching the current window/field for the text typed, commands for taking various sorts of screenshots, various audio and media controls. Hopefully in the future I can get shortcuts up for macro recording and playback. Etc. etc.

If you tried to fit this all on one hand on a standard layout keyboard, it would be nearly impossible to keep it straight. By properly arranging things though, and taking advantage of extra thumb keys and two-handed chords, it’s possible to pack a huge amount of functionality into a pretty well organized and easy to remember hierarchy of shortcuts, and make routine computer use dramatically more efficient.

If all you need is play/pause/skip for some music while your other hand is holding a snack, then sure, put it on one hand. Or better, just dedicate some separate keys to just those functions.

Numpads are for accountants and data entry clerks. Anyone who isn’t an accountant or data entry clerk doesn’t really need a numpad at all.
Quote
I do content creation (audio/visual), and I use the numpad to into parameter numbers such as exposure, color, contrast, audio sample position, timeline position, synth programming parameters, etc.
Numbers (in a numpad arrangement or some other arrangement, but probably not just all in a row) definitely belong on a function layer. Reaching up to the top row or over to a discrete numpad is a huge slowdown when typing on a standard keyboard. A numpad on the left is just as obnoxious a slowdown as one on the right, in addition to being the wrong shape to be easily used by the left hand.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with using a standard-layout numpad for whatever arbitrary purpose. It just happens to have mostly been designed for data entry in fields such as accounting, and is therefore a pretty awful layout for almost every other purpose. It’s better than the standard number row for typing numbers, but now that we have fully programmable firmware and the capacity to make keyboards with arbitrary layouts, we can do much much better.

Better input devices for “audio/visual content creation” would have keys in a hand-friendly arrangement for both hands, with a layout optimized to manage adjusting whatever relevant parameters you need with the same hand you use for other keyboard commands. They would additionally include multiple analog inputs (knobs, sliders, trackballs, touchscreens) to allow you to adjust those parameters in an analog way with real-time feedback instead of only typing numbers. A numpad is only a useful tool for this kind of purpose because the other easily available tools are even less effective, not because it’s inherently well suited to the task.

-Being able to touch-type is not a good enough reason to not want legends on keycaps. There are plenty of situations when not touch-typing that will be much more convenient to have legends, [...] That extra split-second it takes you to think when looking at a set of blank keys only slows you down and interrupts your workflow over and over.
More convenient for you maybe.[...]
Quote
If my driving analogy didn't convince you, then you won't be convinced, and that's fine.
Your driving analogy was about exactly the opposite thing (touch typing advocacy). I’m here objecting to the claim that legends are necessary to avoid constant workflow interruption. I’m pretty much entirely indifferent to the presence or absence of legends on keys, and I can’t think of a time when my workflow was interrupted by lack of legends. I suspect most people with blank keyboards feel the same, or they wouldn’t use them.

Basically, you’re projecting your own need for legends / lack of experience with blanks onto other people.

Quote
There are plenty of headphone designs by headphone companies that place audio quality above all else, yet still have beautiful designs that are tasteful and functional, and not at all catered teenagers blindly following trends (look at the headphones around $1,000 or more).
For $1000 or more you can get a very attractive (all metal, very fancy plastic, carbon fiber, or wood, painted whatever kind of color you want, with nice keycaps in any arbitrary color, and your favorite keyswitches with several choices of layout) keyboard. So presumably that’s not what you were talking about before.

But beyond that, any headphones that cost $1000 are absolutely fashion devices / status symbols first and headphones second, in the same way that luxury watches or handbags are.

Sure, people buy expensive cars, handbags, suits, shoes, watches, etc. because they like high quality things, but that’s not the primary reason any of those products exist or are priced so high. The primary purpose is to signal wealth/status/identity/values to other people: that’s a large part of what your word “tasteful” means (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_(sociology)#Imitation_and_distinction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_(sociology)#Imitation_and_distinction)).

Since for most people, keyboards are not on social display and therefore not a positional good (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_good), the market for very fancy keyboards is a small niche compared to watches, headphones, etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 06 January 2015, 20:34:18
There is a lot of vitriol spewing out here.

There are a lot of people who work with numbers who are not accountants or clerks.
For people who work with numbers, and there are a lot of us, the numpad is vital and pleasant to use.

And I still maintain that detachable cables are simply problems that may not have happened yet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 20:54:55
There is a lot of vitriol spewing out here.
I don’t think anyone here feels angry/caustic/cruel/bitter or is aiming for that as a tone, but note, the premise of this thread is basically “try to go troll each-other”.

Quote
There are a lot of people who work with numbers who are not accountants or clerks.
For people who work with numbers, and there are a lot of us, the numpad is vital and pleasant to use.
The numpad as it exists today is IMO a very ineffective design for generic “working with numbers”. So much so that a properly configured embedded numpad in a programmable 60% keyboard is more efficient, less error prone, and more comfortable for almost every such use case. Unfortunately most of the embedded function-layer numpads in 60% boards are also quite poorly designed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Tue, 06 January 2015, 21:16:29
-Forcing two-handed operation of Fn layer combo keys should only be the last resort if one-handed possibilities are completely unavailable.
If I happen to be using the other hand, such as holding a drink, a snack, a reference image I'm working from (for art), or playing on a musical keyboard (in the middle of composing/recording), or anything else that requires my other hand, I want to be able to operate the Fn functions with my other hand, such as play/pause/skip music that is playing.
Play/pause/skip is far from the only thing someone might want to put on a function layer.

For example: I have on function layers: mouse and keyboard navigation (keyboard navigation ends up taking maybe 40-50 shortcuts if you want to be able to do everything, but I still need to work on figuring out the best organization), numbers, symbols of various sorts, alphabets in other languages, common blobs of text I find myself repeatedly typing, tab/window/application switching, quick access to various useful directories, text processing commands, commands for sending the current selection to various applications or dumping it to a file somewhere, commands for popping up the clipboard history and putting stuff onto / off of it, commands for searching the current window/field for the text typed, commands for taking various sorts of screenshots, various audio and media controls. Hopefully in the future I can get shortcuts up for macro recording and playback. Etc. etc.

If you tried to fit this all on one hand on a standard layout keyboard, it would be nearly impossible to keep it straight. By properly arranging things though, and taking advantage of extra thumb keys and two-handed chords, it’s possible to pack a huge amount of functionality into a pretty well organized and easy to remember hierarchy of shortcuts, and make routine computer use dramatically more efficient.

If all you need is play/pause/skip for some music while your other hand is holding a snack, then sure, put it on one hand. Or better, just dedicate some separate keys to just those functions.

I have a X-Keys XK-24 for all the often used macros, shortcuts, hotkeys, etc, so I'm only using the Fn layer on my keyboard for whatever else I can't fit onto the XK-24. If you are using the keyboard for everything, then yes, having Fn layer keys all over the keyboard for both hand would be necessary.

As a related note, spiceBar's SpaceFN script for AutoHotKey allows the spacebar to be turned into the Fn key, so it becomes quite easy for one hand to reach most of the keys mapped to the Fn layer. I've been experimenting with it and have an on-going thread about it:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67243.0

Numpads are for accountants and data entry clerks. Anyone who isn’t an accountant or data entry clerk doesn’t really need a numpad at all.
I do content creation (audio/visual), and I use the numpad to into parameter numbers such as exposure, color, contrast, audio sample position, timeline position, synth programming parameters, etc.
Numbers (in a numpad arrangement or some other arrangement, but probably not just all in a row) definitely belong on a function layer. Reaching up to the top row or over to a discrete numpad is a huge slowdown when typing on a standard keyboard. A numpad on the left is just as obnoxious a slowdown as one on the right, in addition to being the wrong shape to be easily used by the left hand.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with using a standard-layout numpad for whatever arbitrary purpose. It just happens to have mostly been designed for data entry in fields such as accounting, and is therefore a pretty awful layout for almost every other purpose. It’s better than the standard number row for typing numbers, but now that we have fully programmable firmware and the capacity to make keyboards with arbitrary layouts, we can do much much better.

Better input devices for “audio/visual content creation” would have keys in a hand-friendly arrangement for both hands, with a layout optimized to manage adjusting whatever relevant parameters you need with the same hand you use for other keyboard commands. They would additionally include multiple analog inputs (knobs, sliders, trackballs, touchscreens) to allow you to adjust those parameters in an analog way with real-time feedback instead of only typing numbers. A numpad is only a useful tool for this kind of purpose because the other easily available tools are even less effective, not because it’s inherently well suited to the task.

Yes, but a numpad is what most of us have (on our keyboards or as a standalone unit), and in my case, it happens to be the best way to input numbers for editing parameters. A simple example: Let's say I'm editing photos in Lightroom, and I know I want to drop the exposure by exactly 2.75 stops. It's far faster to type that in a numpad with my other hand on the mouse than on the top number row on a keyboard (and I keep one hand on the mouse because I'm jumping between parameters constantly).

And you're right--a lot of so-called "dedicated" input devices for content creation (such as the many DAW controllers) aren't really all that great in the first place, I have never used one that is significantly better than just using the mouse and keyboard.

 
-Being able to touch-type is not a good enough reason to not want legends on keycaps. There are plenty of situations when not touch-typing that will be much more convenient to have legends, [...] That extra split-second it takes you to think when looking at a set of blank keys only slows you down and interrupts your workflow over and over.
More convenient for you maybe.[...]
Quote
If my driving analogy didn't convince you, then you won't be convinced, and that's fine.
Your driving analogy was about exactly the opposite thing (touch typing advocacy). I’m here objecting to the claim that legends are necessary to avoid constant workflow interruption. I’m pretty much entirely indifferent to the presence or absence of legends on keys, and I can’t think of a time when my workflow was interrupted by lack of legends. I suspect most people with blank keyboards feel the same, or they wouldn’t use them.

Basically, you’re projecting your own need for legends / lack of experience with blanks onto other people.

Sorry, that was a brain-fart. My mind skipped to another issue entire when I typed that.

To address the actual point you made, I would say that blank keycaps and the ability to have the entire layout of the keyboard so well memorized as to have it be second nature, is definitely not something the majority of keyboard enthusiasts have accomplished, or will accomplish. Although that's definitely an "unpopular" thing, since only a small percentage of keyboard enthusiasts have developed or want to develop that ability, my point was that for a large portion of the people, saying "learn to touch-type" is not a good enough reason to justify blank keycaps, since touch-typing isn't the only way to use a keyboard.

There are plenty of headphone designs by headphone companies that place audio quality above all else, yet still have beautiful designs that are tasteful and functional, and not at all catered teenagers blindly following trends (look at the headphones around $1,000 or more).
For $1000 or more you can get a very attractive (all metal, very fancy plastic, carbon fiber, or wood, painted whatever kind of color you want, with nice keycaps in any arbitrary color, and your favorite keyswitches with several choices of layout) keyboard. So presumably that’s not what you were talking about before.

But beyond that, any headphones that cost $1000 are absolutely fashion devices / status symbols first and headphones second, in the same way that luxury watches or handbags are.

Sure, people buy expensive cars, handbags, suits, shoes, watches, etc. because they like high quality things, but that’s not the primary reason any of those products exist or are priced so high. The primary purpose is to signal wealth/status/identity/values to other people: that’s a large part of what your word “tasteful” means (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_(sociology)#Imitation_and_distinction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_(sociology)#Imitation_and_distinction)).

Since for most people, keyboards are not on social display and therefore not a positional good (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_good), the market for very fancy keyboards is a small niche compared to watches, headphones, etc.

I never wear my expensive headphones out in public, so for me it's got nothing to do with fashion. It's the same for most people who own expensive headphones--those stay at home, and often in protective cases when not in use. Also, expensive headphones from serious headphone companies (as opposed to opportunistic marketing schemes in the form of ****ty headphones that are constructed with pointlessly expensive material like 14-karet gold earcups or diamond crusted whatever) are definitely not about fashion or status first--it's about the sound quality first and foremost. The headphone companies know this because the head-fi community will tear their new products apart if its sound quality does not match its price point (it wasn't always like that, but the community has learned to discern from real quality from marketing hype, especially with the rising prevalence of measurement tests). There was a time when companies could get away with ****ty sounding but expensive headphones if they spin the marketing just right, but those days are over. Just look at all the backlash that happened with Beats--there is so much negativity regarding that brand now in online comment sections--people who feel like it's their duty to inform the public about what crappy headphones Beats are, and that prompted Beats to develop good sounding headphones to repair the company's image.

Beautiful design isn't just limited to expensive headphones though--there are plenty of cheap headphones with very nice designs, and at their price-point, it's not a status symbol, although I guess because cheap headphones are often worn while in public, they can be fashion statements. But who's to say keyboards can't be the same? For example, people who attend LAN parties. All that computer case modding--that's the geek's version of status symbol/fashion/street cred, and it certainly extends to keyboards, right?

Anyway, my original point was that "I" personally think visually appealing industrial design is never a bad thing, for anything, and it would be nice to see more variety of designs in keyboards. A good place to start is more variety of color palettes for mass-produced keyboards. Imagine if we had the same kind of choices in design/colors for keyboards as we do for smartphone cases. I know you're going to say that it's because smartphone cases are fashion statements, and we'll end up going around in circles, so I'll just say I know that, and I'm merely expressing a wish.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 06 January 2015, 21:42:18
Jacobolus - for whatever reasons, when I attempt to quote you in a reply, Geekhack crashes.

About the numpad, I could not possibly disagree more.

The numpad as it exists today is IMO a very ineffective design for generic “working with numbers”.


Are you talking about something that has to be toggled?

That is an absolute deal-killer in every situation as far as I am concerned. I despise the very existence of toggles and want dedicated keys for everything that is important. I have no problem with multi-key shortcuts, but the idea that I have to turn something off or on to get arrow keys? Are you ****ing kidding me?

Naturally, I have a large desk and am happy to also have a large keyboard. But to work in a spreadsheet with keys that can be either numbers or letters and to have some operation that is constantly happening to jump in and out? And having to remember what was on and what was off? No way I could live with that.

When I bought a laptop, a dedicated numpad was on of the most important features for me.

Pardon my vitriol, but dedicated numpads and arrow keys are precious and important to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 21:56:39
I think what is throwing me off is the topic of the thread itself.  Are these personal opinions that are unpopular?  Are these things we see other users saying on threads on this and other forums?  And what makes it unpopular or popular?  I guess my logic went out the window here.

Fohat, you are right on point.  I'm just confused about this thread in general and how to respond.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 21:59:30
I think what is throwing me off is the topic of the thread itself.  Are these personal opinions that are unpopular?  Are these things we see other users saying on threads on this and other forums?  And what makes it unpopular or popular?  I guess my logic went out the window here.
The same reason that makes literally any other opinion unpopular: it contradicts the popular opinion
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 22:09:42
About the numpad, I could not possibly disagree more. Are you talking about something that has to be toggled?
I don’t like things that get toggled.

For me, the best option is to have a shift-type thumb key that turns the opposite hand’s main section into a numpad of some sort. (I personally prefer having each finger get 2 numbers instead of a 3x4 grid arrangement, but sticking to the classic grid would reduce learning time.) For some people having a toggle-able mode as an option might be nice. Personally I don’t like modes.

But even if we decide that the numpad should be a separate discrete unit with its own dedicated keys for all the numbers and operators, it’s trivially easy to make something better than the standard numpad design.

Quote
But to work in a spreadsheet with keys that can be either numbers or letters and to have some operation that is constantly happening to jump in and out?
So in other words, you’re hopping your hand back and forth between the keyboard and numpad constantly, to type both letters and numbers into your spreadsheet cells? Sounds very inefficient, error-prone, and uncomfortable to me.

Same kind of slowdown (and RSI implications) as you’d get from alternating between keyboard and mouse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 22:20:18
It's like having an 80%, 60% 75% 40% or whatever percent keyboard.
When you need a 100% keyboard, you realize it when you are on something that doesn't have it.

I suppose all FADS eventually FADE.

I can't wait until a few years from now...

You have to use your hands to use those things?  That's so outdated!  Why in the world would you need that?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 06 January 2015, 22:46:06
I prefer thick ABS double shot key caps with cherry profile over any other type of caps.
I want my space bars to be made of PBT because I hate to get them with shiny spots.
I prefer neutral colors for my caps, I just do not get it when people buy sets in colors like pink, and light blue.
I prefer to use plastic cases instead of those ultra expensive aluminum ones.
I hate leds in my keyboard, there is always good illumination at my desk, and my keyboard is not a x-mas tree, or a stop light, thus there is no reason to adorn it.
Topre is just an expensive type of rubberdome board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 06 January 2015, 22:55:54
I prefer thick ABS double shot key caps with cherry profile over any other type of caps.
I want my space bars to be made of PBT because I hate to get them with shiny spots.
I prefer neutral colors for my caps, I just do not get it when people buy sets in colors like pink, and light blue.
I hate leds in my keyboard, there is always good illumination at my desk, and my keyboard is not a x-mas tree, or a stop light, thus there is no reason to adorn it.
All popular opinions

Topre is just an expensive type of rubberdome board.
not even opinionated, literally true
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dragonken on Tue, 06 January 2015, 23:02:10
backlight and RGB switches are unnecessary
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 06 January 2015, 23:05:14
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 06 January 2015, 23:48:01
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.

I got the k60 and k90 back in the day...   they both had the repeat key issue which corsair never fixed.... even after the patch it still did it sometimes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 07 January 2015, 00:39:22
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
friend was looking to buy a new mech. Knew I was into keyboards. Asked for advice. Gave plenty of advice on a wide variety of brands and switch he could try. Still bought a k70 w/ browns. Why do I even try
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 07 January 2015, 00:44:49
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
friend was looking to buy a new mech. Knew I was into keyboards. Asked for advice. Gave plenty of advice on a wide variety of brands and switch he could try. Still bought a k70 w/ browns. Why do I even try

But, but Corsair!  /s
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 07 January 2015, 04:08:33
Quote from: Lunatique
The headphone companies know this because the head-fi community will tear their new products apart if its sound quality does not match its price point (it wasn't always like that, but the community has learned to discern from real quality from marketing hype, especially with the rising prevalence of measurement tests).
This comedy is pure gold.

Good luck tearing anything apart on head-fi, especially if it has something to do with sponsors (yes, head-fi is an ad site). Hint: you'll get banned pretty fast.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 07 January 2015, 08:15:30
So in other words, you’re hopping your hand back and forth between the keyboard and numpad constantly, to type both letters and numbers into your spreadsheet cells? Sounds very inefficient, error-prone, and uncomfortable to me.

You are probably right on that, but it is still far better than any of the other alternatives like shifting with the left hand to go between "L" and "3".

Generally I do all the number work with my right hand and let the left take over the whole alphabet.

And I don't know how it is that telephone numpads have the low numbers at the top and computer numpads have low numbers at the bottom, but that does not seem to bother me (after all these years).

PS - why is it that quoting you hangs my connection but it does not happen with others?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Wed, 07 January 2015, 09:17:34
Quote from: Lunatique
The headphone companies know this because the head-fi community will tear their new products apart if its sound quality does not match its price point (it wasn't always like that, but the community has learned to discern from real quality from marketing hype, especially with the rising prevalence of measurement tests).
This comedy is pure gold.

Good luck tearing anything apart on head-fi, especially if it has something to do with sponsors (yes, head-fi is an ad site). Hint: you'll get banned pretty fast.
I have never been banned there, and I'm pretty outspoken about a lot of the stuff I think are audiofool snake oil marketing stunts, as well as ludicrous diminishing returns. And that never stopped Jude from contacting me every year asking for permission to quote my reviews for their gift guides.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 07 January 2015, 10:01:35
Haha, ever mentioned blind testing? ^_^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Wed, 07 January 2015, 12:23:03
Haha, ever mentioned blind testing? ^_^
I harp on and on about the necessity of double-blind tests, how headphone amps are mostly a waste of money, how overrated the HD800 is, how lossless files and "high-end" portable players are all a waste of money, how expensive cables are snake oil, and advocate EQ'ing headphones properly with free/cheap parametric EQ instead of the endless treadmill of perpetual upgrades, etc. I also write in-depth posts dispelling common misconceptions in audio, the dangers of misguided priorities and dimishing returns, the importance of using correct terminologies to describe audio and avoiding hyperbole, and so on. Not only am I not banned, but actually well-respected in that circle.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Wed, 07 January 2015, 13:39:05
I harp on and on about the necessity of double-blind tests, how headphone amps are mostly a waste of money, how overrated the HD800 is, how lossless files and "high-end" portable players are all a waste of money, how expensive cables are snake oil, and advocate EQ'ing headphones properly with free/cheap parametric EQ instead of the endless treadmill of perpetual upgrades, etc. I also write in-depth posts dispelling common misconceptions in audio, the dangers of misguided priorities and dimishing returns, the importance of using correct terminologies to describe audio and avoiding hyperbole, and so on. Not only am I not banned, but actually well-respected in that circle.
first post in this thread that legitimately annoys me is about audio instead of keyboard. go figure
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mogo on Thu, 08 January 2015, 09:47:59
I can't imagine why that rustles your jimmies.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: meztek on Thu, 08 January 2015, 19:24:01
I cannot tell if this opinion is unpopular or not but I cannot stand cherry keyswitches.  Blues are barely tolerable compared to white ALPS and all the rest of them are worth nothing.  Especially the non-clicky ones.  Black ALPS are non-clicky tactile switches and they feel *tactile*, whereas by comparison Cherry MX Red, Black, Brown, etc. feel like mush.  I liken them to an expensive way to produce the same mushy feel of rubber dome keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 08 January 2015, 19:40:38
RetroBlight is bonkers...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 09 January 2015, 01:50:21
cherry sucks
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 09 January 2015, 07:11:44
Cherry ML > Topre ;D Or is that just controversial instead of unpopular... let's see from the number of responses.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 09 January 2015, 07:39:03
Cherry ML > Topre ;D Or is that just controversial instead of unpopular... let's see from the number of responses.

 :eek:

wat
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 09 January 2015, 07:39:57
Cherry ML > Topre ;D Or is that just controversial instead of unpopular... let's see from the number of responses.
People seem to hate ML, the biggest problem being you pretty much have to hit right in the center of the cap to actuate. So yeah, unpopular
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 09 January 2015, 07:40:59
A contradiction is not an argument.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 09 January 2015, 08:25:01
Ooh... I realised I left out an important word. Sorry.

Lubed Cherry ML > Topre...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 09 January 2015, 09:12:07
I think what is throwing me off is the topic of the thread itself.  Are these personal opinions that are unpopular?  Are these things we see other users saying on threads on this and other forums?  And what makes it unpopular or popular?  I guess my logic went out the window here.

Fohat, you are right on point.  I'm just confused about this thread in general and how to respond.


You are not expected to respond, just turn your back to the confusion, and be happy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 09 January 2015, 11:21:47
Cherry ML > Topre ;D Or is that just controversial instead of unpopular... let's see from the number of responses.

dems is fighting words
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lurch on Fri, 09 January 2015, 11:25:14
typing with long fingernails is the best
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: howthegodschill on Fri, 09 January 2015, 11:30:50
typing with long fingernails is the best
I agree 100% with you on this. Although, I have this odd anxiety when my fingernails are too long.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 09 January 2015, 11:32:19
fingernails can't stick out past the finger.  CANNOT!!!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Fri, 09 January 2015, 11:41:38
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
friend was looking to buy a new mech. Knew I was into keyboards. Asked for advice. Gave plenty of advice on a wide variety of brands and switch he could try. Still bought a k70 w/ browns. Why do I even try

Friend asked for advice about getting a mechanical keyboard. I gave him lots of fair and balanced advice about switch types and keyboards. Gets Blackwidow with Razer Greens. Ah well, at least I'll get to try Razer switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 09 January 2015, 12:34:53
typing with long fingernails is the best
(https://cdn.mediacru.sh/_/_EL3z-R5kC7H.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Justintoxicated on Fri, 09 January 2015, 13:08:31
1) I like Cherry Browns for a do it all option.

2) I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops (but they don't make scissor switches anymore so they must be unpopular)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 09 January 2015, 13:39:15
2) I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops (but they don't make scissor switches anymore so they must be unpopular)
Who doesn't make scissor switches anymore and what does it have to do with popularity?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 09 January 2015, 13:42:04
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
friend was looking to buy a new mech. Knew I was into keyboards. Asked for advice. Gave plenty of advice on a wide variety of brands and switch he could try. Still bought a k70 w/ browns. Why do I even try

Friend asked for advice about getting a mechanical keyboard. I gave him lots of fair and balanced advice about switch types and keyboards. Gets Blackwidow with Razer Greens. Ah well, at least I'll get to try Razer switches.

a friend asked me for advice also.


lol jk i dont have friends :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 09 January 2015, 13:48:16
Apparently this is unpopular on r/mk.  I wouldn't touch a Corsair keyboard with a ten foot pole.
friend was looking to buy a new mech. Knew I was into keyboards. Asked for advice. Gave plenty of advice on a wide variety of brands and switch he could try. Still bought a k70 w/ browns. Why do I even try

Friend asked for advice about getting a mechanical keyboard. I gave him lots of fair and balanced advice about switch types and keyboards. Gets Blackwidow with Razer Greens. Ah well, at least I'll get to try Razer switches.

a friend asked me for advice also.


lol jk i dont have friends :(
awww is ok
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Justintoxicated on Fri, 09 January 2015, 19:57:39
2) I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops (but they don't make scissor switches anymore so they must be unpopular)
Who doesn't make scissor switches anymore and what does it have to do with popularity?

They are no longer popular on laptops, obviously, because they no longer exist on any laptop I can find.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 09 January 2015, 20:00:27
They are no longer popular on laptops, obviously, because they no longer exist on any laptop I can find.
Wait what? Most laptops now use scissor switches. The most obvious trendsetting example is all the Apple laptops of the past 15+ years, but most PC laptops now have also used them for some time.

Quote
I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops
I think you must have some idiosyncratic definition of “scissor switches” because all the “chiclet” boards I’ve ever seen use scissor switches.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Scissor_switch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RoflCopter4 on Fri, 09 January 2015, 22:36:23
They are no longer popular on laptops, obviously, because they no longer exist on any laptop I can find.
Wait what? Most laptops now use scissor switches. The most obvious trendsetting example is all the Apple laptops of the past 15+ years, but most PC laptops now have also used them for some time.

Quote
I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops
I think you must have some idiosyncratic definition of “scissor switches” because all the “chiclet” boards I’ve ever seen use scissor switches.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Scissor_switch

All of them?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/ZXSpectrum48k.jpg
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 09 January 2015, 22:52:32
Quote
I liked scissor switched laptops and hate chiclet laptops
I think you must have some idiosyncratic definition of “scissor switches” because all the “chiclet” boards I’ve ever seen use scissor switches.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Scissor_switch

99% of chiclet keyboards are still ****.  I'd rather type on a ****ty RD keyboard than an Apple aluminum keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: danwomansan on Fri, 09 January 2015, 23:07:12
key noise is an unnecessary form of tactile response that too many people look for in keyboards

the wire out from keyboards is often put on the wrong side and should be on the left, so it is less likely to interfere with the mouse for users who use the mouse with the right hand

I like the feel of keys on chiclet keyboards (minus actually pressing them in)

I kind of like when the enter or right shift keys on my crappy spare keyboard get stuck when I'm typing slowly

I prefer prying off caps with a sort of lever over pulling them out properly and wish it was more common for caps to be made to come off this way
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 09 January 2015, 23:35:59
key noise is an unnecessary form of tactile response that too many people look for in keyboards
tactile (adj): of or connected with the sense of touch

Noise is not tactile. I think the opinion you were looking to express is something like: “Keyswitches should be completely silent.”
Quote
I prefer prying off caps with a sort of lever over pulling them out properly and wish it was more common for caps to be made to come off this way
What does it mean to pull them out properly? I pretty much always remove keycaps with a pair of butter knives. Works way better than any fancy keypuller.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 09 January 2015, 23:38:31

key noise is an unnecessary form of tactile response that too many people look for in keyboards
tactile (adj): of or connected with the sense of touch

Noise is not tactile. I think the opinion you were looking to express is something like: “Keyswitches should be completely silent.”
Quote
I prefer prying off caps with a sort of lever over pulling them out properly and wish it was more common for caps to be made to come off this way
What does it mean to pull them out properly? I pretty much always remove keycaps with a pair of butter knives. Works way better than any fancy keypuller.

Likely what properly means is with a keycap puller.  Pulling straight up with some side to side wiggle if necessary.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: danwomansan on Sat, 10 January 2015, 00:17:05
tactile (adj): of or connected with the sense of touch

Noise is not tactile. I think the opinion you were looking to express is something like: “Keyswitches should be completely silent.”
oh thanks, not great at english
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dodzylla on Sat, 10 January 2015, 04:46:06
I ****** hate ABS vs PBT , both of them are good....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Mon, 12 January 2015, 10:28:55
I ****** hate ABS vs PBT , both of them are good....

Would you not concede that there is a definite difference between the feel though?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yiajiipamu on Mon, 12 January 2015, 11:51:30
Granite sets look bad IMO.
Rubber domes can actually be pretty nice, and I feel that people will immediately hate a keyboard for it being a rubber dome without giving it a chance which I find to be ridiculous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Mon, 12 January 2015, 12:07:24
Rubber domes can actually be pretty nice, and I feel that people will immediately hate a keyboard for it being a rubber dome without giving it a chance which I find to be ridiculous.

Totally agree. I think as a community we should promote the view of appreciating the benefits of having a better quality keyboard instead of the 'mechanical or gtfo' view. I know someone who has a fairly mundane dell rubber dome keyboard. It is actually very nice to type on. What is important is not having an expensive keyboard, but appreciating that not all keyboards are the same and that it is important to not just put up with a board that you do not enjoy using. I often see (particularly on /r/MK) posts to the effect of 'is this mechanical?', to which the reply is invariably 'no' and the reply of the OP to that post is 'damn it. I guess I'll have to keep on looking' or something else to that effect. They are not giving a thought to the merits of that keyboard, only worrying about weather it fits one criteria. It is totally not as black and white as 'rubber = worthless, mechanical = holy'. I'm sure many people find out about these communities and are scared off by the prices of seemingly 'entry level' boards.

TLDR: good rubber needs more love.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lunatique on Mon, 12 January 2015, 18:10:59
Rubber domes can actually be pretty nice, and I feel that people will immediately hate a keyboard for it being a rubber dome without giving it a chance which I find to be ridiculous.

Totally agree. I think as a community we should promote the view of appreciating the benefits of having a better quality keyboard instead of the 'mechanical or gtfo' view. I know someone who has a fairly mundane dell rubber dome keyboard. It is actually very nice to type on. What is important is not having an expensive keyboard, but appreciating that not all keyboards are the same and that it is important to not just put up with a board that you do not enjoy using. I often see (particularly on /r/MK) posts to the effect of 'is this mechanical?', to which the reply is invariably 'no' and the reply of the OP to that post is 'damn it. I guess I'll have to keep on looking' or something else to that effect. They are not giving a thought to the merits of that keyboard, only worrying about weather it fits one criteria. It is totally not as black and white as 'rubber = worthless, mechanical = holy'. I'm sure many people find out about these communities and are scared off by the prices of seemingly 'entry level' boards.

TLDR: good rubber needs more love.

QFA. There are some rubber-dome keyboards I've typed on and made me stop and think, "Hey, this is quite nice!" If they came in form-factors that I preferred (such as TKL or 75%), I'd totally get one, but mainstream keyboards are largely full-size, which just doesn't fit my ergonomic requirement.

Just the other day, I was trying the Razer Tartarus at a store, and I actually really liked the tactile feel of its rubber-dome keys. Felt like a stiffer and slightly less refined version of Topre to me, and that's not a bad thing at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 12 January 2015, 18:34:31
First-generation Dell Quietkeys are very nice, so are IBM 8923s.

Compaq made some excellent keyboards in the late-1990s-early-2000s.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 12 January 2015, 23:08:34
The one thing that drove me crazy was the trackpoint knob.  I always used the mouse and found that thing to be very annoying to me when I typed on a laptop.  Even using it was really annoying.  I remember using it and the pointer would just fly across the desktop for no reason at all.  It drove me nuts! I never got used to it.  Arrrrgh!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: howthegodschill on Mon, 12 January 2015, 23:55:42
The one thing that drove me crazy was the trackpoint knob.  I always used the mouse and found that thing to be very annoying to me when I typed on a laptop.  Even using it was really annoying.  I remember using it and the pointer would just fly across the desktop for no reason at all.  It drove me nuts! I never got used to it.  Arrrrgh!
I recall using my sister's laptop on middle school field trips in order to play Half-Life, and only having the nub to use. Quite an infuriating experience as a youngster.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 12 January 2015, 23:58:43
The one thing that drove me crazy was the trackpoint knob.  I always used the mouse and found that thing to be very annoying to me when I typed on a laptop.  Even using it was really annoying.  I remember using it and the pointer would just fly across the desktop for no reason at all.  It drove me nuts! I never got used to it.  Arrrrgh!
I recall using my sister's laptop on middle school field trips in order to play Half-Life, and only having the nub to use. Quite an infuriating experience as a youngster.

Great practice for when you're an adult though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 17 January 2015, 03:22:40
Going to breathe some life back into this thread...


buying used keycaps? No thanks....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MessyCaps on Sat, 17 January 2015, 07:01:38
Going to breathe some life back into this thread...


buying used keycaps? No thanks....

I would agree thats not a popular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 17 January 2015, 07:47:35
Going to breathe some life back into this thread...


buying used keycaps? No thanks....

I would agree thats not a popular opinion.

Yeah... I see a lot of used keycaps / keysets selling. I can understand it for novelty caps (clacks et. al.) but for keysets I just don't get the appeal in spending so much on keycaps that have already been worn, used, and smothered in someone else's finger grease. There are always tons of keysets on sale, after all. Then again, I also hold the opinion that most PMK sets are also less attractive than a nice set of Vortex PBTs at a third of the price.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sat, 17 January 2015, 10:41:18
QFA. There are some rubber-dome keyboards I've typed on and made me stop and think, "Hey, this is quite nice!" If they came in form-factors that I preferred (such as TKL or 75%), I'd totally get one, but mainstream keyboards are largely full-size, which just doesn't fit my ergonomic requirement.

Just the other day, I was trying the Razer Tartarus at a store, and I actually really liked the tactile feel of its rubber-dome keys. Felt like a stiffer and slightly less refined version of Topre to me, and that's not a bad thing at all.

I own one of these (http://www.amazon.com/HP-AS601AA-ABA-Mini-Keyboard/dp/B0025ZSBNG).  And for a rubberdome it's quite nice.  Short throw, relatively quiet - perfect for the Office and only $20!  It is also spec for 20M presses.

After a year of ownership I compared the most commonly used keys to the unused function keys and they are still equally tactile.

Compared that to "oh noes - my month old $125+ mechanical has chattering switches..."  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Sat, 17 January 2015, 13:35:03
Yeah the used keycap thing is like... Nope. Especially if it's ABS.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 17 January 2015, 14:26:30
I just don't get the appeal in spending so much on keycaps that have already been worn, used, and smothered in someone else's finger grease.
A half hour in detergent removes pretty much all finger grease.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Sun, 18 January 2015, 08:29:37
I can see pbt sets selling (ibm. Unicomp). Outside of that the price  or condition would need to be right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Xonar on Thu, 22 January 2015, 14:39:11
After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Thu, 22 January 2015, 14:47:14
After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.

Hmm. Now I want to try it, even though it looks pretty bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 22 January 2015, 16:19:47
After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.

Hmm. Now I want to try it, even though it looks pretty bad.
Trust me, there's a reason it's an unpopular opinion :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Thu, 22 January 2015, 16:27:20
After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.

Stop tempting me.  I keep wanting one more and more, despite having just finished my 4704.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 22 January 2015, 16:36:37
Stop tempting me.  I keep wanting one more and more, despite having just finished my 4704.
If you have a 4704 board, there’s very little reason to want an XT (unless it’s to harvest parts for some custom layout or an XTant or something).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Xonar on Thu, 22 January 2015, 17:43:39
After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.

Hmm. Now I want to try it, even though it looks pretty bad.
Trust me, there's a reason it's an unpopular opinion :p

I can't argue with that. :P It's certainly not for everyone. Still not entirely sure how in the world it turned out that I don't mind the XT layout. lol

After receiving my "Bigfoot" Terminal XT Model F, I think I have a very unpopular opinion to share.

I kinda like the XT layout.

Never thought I'd ever be saying that. It might even become my secondary daily driver along with the 4704.

Stop tempting me.  I keep wanting one more and more, despite having just finished my 4704.

The seller I bought my Bigfoot from has more available, but I doubt they'll last long. At the price he's selling them at, and given that they're NIB and will only need an xwhatsit to be in perfect running order, I'd say you should go for it.  :thumb:

The XT is a different experience from the 4704. Enough to make me want both on my desk, however I do not yet have a desk large enough to accommodate both. lol The thing that really makes me like it is the wrist rest. It makes it a bit more comfortable to type on than the 4704, which doesn't even have raisers. It also has some of the nicest caps IBM has ever put on a keyboard. People like to source XT alphanumerics to put on other BS boards for a good reason. Regardless, I love both of them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 22 January 2015, 17:46:03
will only need an xwhatsit to be in perfect running order
Aren't those incompatible with his converter? I just remember thinking I would do the same and he said that it wouldn't work
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blazarcher on Thu, 22 January 2015, 18:27:00
1. I hate full sized keyboards! (Even though I have a Filco 100% xD)

2. I love Cherry MX Browns (:P) especially for gaming!

3. I hate Model M's, actually I hate all old keyboards!

4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.

5. I hate corsairs, razors, thermaltake, and any other company that overdoes branding.

6. I hate dolch keycaps (Nahhhh, I'm kidding, I love them!)

7. I LOVE purple FMJ Poker cases!

Forgot to mention:

8. I hate Topres! (feel like rubber domes to me)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 22 January 2015, 18:32:47
1. I hate full sized keyboards! (Even though I have a Filco 100% xD)

4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.

5. I hate corsairs, razors, thermaltake, and any other company that overdoes branding.

6. I hate dolch keycaps (Nahhhh, I'm kidding, I love them!)

7. I LOVE purple FMJ Poker cases!
all pretty popular or at least moderately shared

8. I hate Topres! (feel like rubber domes to me)
they are
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Xonar on Thu, 22 January 2015, 18:57:11
will only need an xwhatsit to be in perfect running order
Aren't those incompatible with his converter? I just remember thinking I would do the same and he said that it wouldn't work

Did a quick search and yep, you're right about that. My bad. I could have sworn I had seen the Bigfoot XT on a compatibility list for the xwhatsit, but the controller design is integrated in the same way as the regular XT, unfortunately. Apparently you can do Soarer's converter, however.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blazarcher on Thu, 22 January 2015, 19:21:22
1. I hate full sized keyboards! (Even though I have a Filco 100% xD)

4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.

5. I hate corsairs, razors, thermaltake, and any other company that overdoes branding.

6. I hate dolch keycaps (Nahhhh, I'm kidding, I love them!)

7. I LOVE purple FMJ Poker cases!
all pretty popular or at least moderately shared

8. I hate Topres! (feel like rubber domes to me)
they are

Woah #4 really? I'm a bit surprised.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 22 January 2015, 20:09:20
Quote from: blazarcher
4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.
Quote from: hwood34
all pretty popular or at least moderately shared
Quote from: blazarcher
Woah #4 really? I'm a bit surprised.
I’d even say many or even most people hate keyboard backlighting. I personally always turn it off on Apple laptops, and wouldn’t consider buying a keyboard with backlighting unless I planned to remove all the LEDs and replace the keycaps.

I think caps lock and num lock are stupid concepts which should have been retired 20 years ago.

I suspect there might be compelling use cases for a display on a keyboard, but I can’t think of any off-hand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blazarcher on Thu, 22 January 2015, 20:21:19
Quote from: blazarcher
4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.
Quote from: hwood34
all pretty popular or at least moderately shared
Quote from: blazarcher
Woah #4 really? I'm a bit surprised.
I’d even say many or even most people hate keyboard backlighting. I personally always turn it off on Apple laptops, and wouldn’t consider buying a keyboard with backlighting unless I planned to remove all the LEDs and replace the keycaps.

I think caps lock and num lock are stupid concepts which should have been retired 20 years ago.

I suspect there might be compelling use cases for a display on a keyboard, but I can’t think of any off-hand.

I think it's quite surprising considering all the RGB LED keyboards that are out now. I mean just look at Corsair and Razor!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: taylordcraig on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:51:17
I buy and sell keycaps all the time! It just depends how worn they are. I bought a pretty worn set of OG desko and theyre still really nice. Most of my SP stuff is so lightly used you probably couldn't tell. That's the upside to having so many damn sets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:01:34
Quote from: blazarcher
4. I hate LED's on keyboards unless they are white or very subtle.
Quote from: hwood34
all pretty popular or at least moderately shared
Quote from: blazarcher
Woah #4 really? I'm a bit surprised.
I’d even say many or even most people hate keyboard backlighting. I personally always turn it off on Apple laptops, and wouldn’t consider buying a keyboard with backlighting unless I planned to remove all the LEDs and replace the keycaps.

I think caps lock and num lock are stupid concepts which should have been retired 20 years ago.

I suspect there might be compelling use cases for a display on a keyboard, but I can’t think of any off-hand.

I think it's quite surprising considering all the RGB LED keyboards that are out now. I mean just look at Corsair and Razor!
I mean, for your average person the RGB backlighting might seem appealing, but to enthusiasts it's just gaudy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:21:15
Unpopular opinion:

DSA sucks big hairy Bronads. Flat keycap profiles can burn.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:27:03
It's not that unpopular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:42:00
It's not that unpopular.
I'd even go so far as to say that's a pretty popular opinion
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:46:19
It's not that unpopular.
I'd even go so far as to say that's a pretty popular opinion

Every profile has it's fans and it's detractors. DSA has a strong crowd of support and an equally strong crowd of dislike. Rinse and repeat for SA.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 26 March 2015, 14:32:27
NVM, too hard to communicate humor through a computer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 26 March 2015, 16:03:05
Fujitsu Leaf Spring switches aren't bad feeling.  They're not amazing, but better than many stock  MX switches, namely Blues and Reds.  They are annoying as hell.  Even so, they're still less annoying than Blues.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:16:42
They're not amazing, but better than [any] stock MX switches [...]
This pretty much describes 90% of mechanical keyswitches out there.

“This keyswitch is better than MX” is pretty much like saying “this world map projection is better than Mercator” or “these headphones are better than Beats” or “this novel is better than Twilight”.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:40:31
Stock Blacks are still nice and I'd take any MX over White or Black Alps.  I'd take most Mx over a Model M. NMB Hi-Tek are nice but have too short of a throw, so it would depend on the day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: stratokaster on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:04:35
1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:37:06
KEYCOOL'S RGB BOARD IS GOING TO BE AMAZING I DONT CARE WHAT ANYBODY ELSE SAYS
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: burn1nsun on Fri, 27 March 2015, 10:59:30
I think that cherry mx switches are just so unsatisfying when compared to a topre or buckling spring, heck even compared to a gateron switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lengradde on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:07:18
1) I hate all cases and any height they add, so I lay the PCB directly on the table.

2) I wish MX Blues were significantly louder with a much lower pitch.

3) Plates are an abomination.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:08:36
1) I hate all cases and any height they add, so I lay the PCB directly on the table.

2) I wish MX Blues were louder.

3) Plates are an abomination.

Don't you even want a piece of ply or something to protect the traces?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jameslr on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:13:16

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.

People that spend their lives in vim should consider a life upgrade. Just sayin'... I use vim out of necessity and convenience rather than preference. I much prefer a gui based text editor such as notepad++.

In reality 60% boards are great for saving space where it is needed. My preference in layout is ANSI TKL.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:20:11
1) I hate all cases and any height they add, so I lay the PCB directly on the table.
probably the oddest thing I've seen in this thread :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:24:11
1) I hate all cases and any height they add, so I lay the PCB directly on the table.
probably the oddest thing I've seen in this thread :))
Yeah, much better to carve the desk for at least 2/3 inches and then fix the PCB bellow desk level. it's so much more ergonomic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lengradde on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:24:31
1) I hate all cases and any height they add, so I lay the PCB directly on the table.

2) I wish MX Blues were louder.

3) Plates are an abomination.

Don't you even want a piece of ply or something to protect the traces?
I use a massive deskpad that provides cushion and keeps it from sliding.  Carving my desk and setting the keyboard down in it a bit would be better...  but would reduce the options I have for where I set peripherals, and not let me move my board to the side for gaming.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:30:15
I've seen the bare PCB thing. Not my thing, but a few folks' thing.

Wait, we're still talking about keyboard, right?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:32:25

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.

People that spend their lives in vim should consider a life upgrade. Just sayin'... I use vim out of necessity and convenience rather than preference. I much prefer a gui based text editor such as notepad++.

In reality 60% boards are great for saving space where it is needed. My preference in layout is ANSI TKL.
GVim, you're welcome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jameslr on Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:34:14


1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.

People that spend their lives in vim should consider a life upgrade. Just sayin'... I use vim out of necessity and convenience rather than preference. I much prefer a gui based text editor such as notepad++.

In reality 60% boards are great for saving space where it is needed. My preference in layout is ANSI TKL.
GVim, you're welcome.

Have you tried notepad++? You're welcome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 27 March 2015, 12:22:48
Numpads suck when they're on the right side.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Fri, 27 March 2015, 12:23:54
2) I wish MX Blues were significantly louder with a much lower pitch.

That sounds like a buckling spring...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 27 March 2015, 12:52:12


1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.

People that spend their lives in vim should consider a life upgrade. Just sayin'... I use vim out of necessity and convenience rather than preference. I much prefer a gui based text editor such as notepad++.

In reality 60% boards are great for saving space where it is needed. My preference in layout is ANSI TKL.
GVim, you're welcome.

Have you tried notepad++? You're welcome.
Yes. It has precisely one advantage: the user interface appears intuitive to people already brain-damaged by DOS/Windows. Unsurprisingly, it correlates with the opinion that text processors were a good idea.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Fri, 27 March 2015, 12:56:27
I think caps lock and num lock are stupid concepts which should have been retired 20 years ago.

Caps Lock isn't stupid per se, it's just really stupid to have it in such a valuable position on most keyboards, and it's arguable whether it should have a dedicated key at all. Activating it via a function layer works fine for me.

It's useful if you program in a language that uses caps a lot, like C. I wouldn't particulary want to type this without the aid of a caps lock: https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/blob/master/keyboard/gh60/Makefile
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 13:16:36
It's useful if you program in a language that uses caps a lot, like C. I wouldn't particulary want to type this without the aid of a caps lock[:
No, it still sucks. What you want is a shortcut which capitalizes either the current word or the selection, and then you type your constant name in lower case and press that shortcut at the end.

Modes are evil. If you really need a mode, at least make sure it requires actively holding a key down, like the shift key. (Put the shifter on a thumb key or a foot pedal if it helps.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 27 March 2015, 13:26:41
It's the other way around. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil are modes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:04:47
It's useful if you program in a language that uses caps a lot, like C. I wouldn't particulary want to type this without the aid of a caps lock[:
No, it still sucks. What you want is a shortcut which capitalizes either the current word or the selection, and then you type your constant name in lower case and press that shortcut at the end.

Modes are evil. If you really need a mode, at least make sure it requires actively holding a key down, like the shift key. (Put the shifter on a thumb key or a foot pedal if it helps.)

I still disagree that it sucks. I'm one of the extreme minority of people that capitalize letters by double-tapping Caps lock. Is it inefficient and stupid? Perhaps, but I maintain about 95 WPM, so I don't really see the value in learning the "correct" way to apply Caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:20:19


1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

Obviously 60% boards were made for people who spend their life in Vim. Otherwise, they do not make sense.

People that spend their lives in vim should consider a life upgrade. Just sayin'... I use vim out of necessity and convenience rather than preference. I much prefer a gui based text editor such as notepad++.

In reality 60% boards are great for saving space where it is needed. My preference in layout is ANSI TKL.
GVim, you're welcome.

Have you tried notepad++? You're welcome.

sublimetext

:p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:28:22
I hate the term "daily driver".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:28:55
I still disagree that [caps lock] sucks. I'm one of the extreme minority of people that capitalize letters by double-tapping Caps lock. Is it inefficient and stupid? Perhaps, but I maintain about 95 WPM, so I don't really see the value in learning the "correct" way to apply Caps.
You’d be much better off with a key to capitalize just the immediately following letter.

Or perhaps a key which acts like shift if you hold it down, but capitalizes just the next letter if you quickly press and release it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jameslr on Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:30:49


sublimetext

:p

Looks nice! Thanks!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Fri, 27 March 2015, 18:21:09
I still disagree that [caps lock] sucks. I'm one of the extreme minority of people that capitalize letters by double-tapping Caps lock. Is it inefficient and stupid? Perhaps, but I maintain about 95 WPM, so I don't really see the value in learning the "correct" way to apply Caps.
You’d be much better off with a key to capitalize just the immediately following letter.

Or perhaps a key which acts like shift if you hold it down, but capitalizes just the next letter if you quickly press and release it.

I guess I'm not following your comment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 27 March 2015, 18:24:08
Sticky keys?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 19:47:38
I guess I'm not following your comment.
The problem with caps lock is that creates a mode, which causes mistakes when you turn it on accidentally or leave it on after you expect. While in the caps lock mode, all the keys on the keyboard behave differently, in a rather arbitrary way. Shift + letter doesn’t always produce the same character as hold caps lock + letter + release caps lock. This is confusing and unnecessary.

The only real advantage to caps lock vs. holding a shift key down is that holding shift gets uncomfortable with some combinations, but with caps lock you can strike the keys one at a time instead of needing to make a chord.

If you mostly use caps lock to capitalize single letters, then you’d be better off with a key (let’s call it ◊) which, when you press it, causes the immediately following key to be treated exactly as if shift was held down.

So pressing ◊ then x makes X, or pressing ◊ then 7 makes &, or ◊ then \ makes |, etc.

If you don’t press another key within a few seconds afterward, you probably want to ignore the ◊ key and let the next key just type a lower-case letter.

Optionally, you could combine this with the shift key, so holding down ◊, pressing a, b, c, then releasing ◊ key would type ABC.

If you want to use caps lock to capitalize long stretches of text, and don’t like holding down shift or repeatedly pressing a ◊-like key, you’d be better off typing the text in lower case and then at the end invoking some command which capitalizes the whole word, line, or selection. Exactly what keystroke should invoke that command, how it should work, etc. depends on your personal preferences, and what kind of keystrokes you use for other navigation and selection commands. Basically all text editors currently have ****ty default setups for all of these basic functions, so I recommend customizing something to suit your own personal preferences.
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 27 March 2015, 19:51:52
I guess I'm not following your comment.
You want a key (let’s call it ◊) which, when you press it, causes the immediately following key to be treated as if shift is held down.

So pressing ◊ then x makes X, or pressing ◊ then 7 makes &, or ◊ then \ makes |, etc.

If you don’t press another key within a few seconds afterward, you probably want to ignore the ◊ key and let the next key just type a lower-case letter.

Optionally, you could combine this with the shift key, so holding down ◊, pressing a, b, c, then releasing ◊ key would type ABC.

It's a novel idea for sure, but I'm thinking it would be more efficient with traditional shift; can't you type simultaneous keys faster than sequential?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 01111000 on Fri, 27 March 2015, 19:52:59
HHKBs are overpriced and aren't as great as everyone makes them out to be.  They're not better than a similar keyboard that costs half as much; people just need to find a way to justify such a large amount of money and rationalize it that way.  It's a status symbol.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 27 March 2015, 19:53:50

HHKBs are overpriced and aren't as great as everyone makes them out to be.  They're not better than a similar keyboard that costs half as much; people just need to find a way to justify such a large amount of money and rationalize it that way.  It's a status symbol.

I've always had my suspicions...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 20:00:04
It's a novel idea for sure, but I'm thinking it would be more efficient with traditional shift; can't you type simultaneous keys faster than sequential?

Imagine you want to type a capital X. The idea is you can type any of the following 3 things:
◊ down
x down
x up
◊ up

or:
◊ down
x down
◊ up
x up

or:
◊ down
◊ up
x down
x up

And you get the same result either way, so you don’t really need to worry about it. Using a shift key instead of ◊, that last pattern won’t get you a capital X. If you want to press the keys sequentially you need to use caps lock.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Fri, 27 March 2015, 22:18:18
The problem with caps lock is that creates a mode, which causes mistakes when you turn it on accidentally or leave it on after you expect. While in the caps lock mode, all the keys on the keyboard behave differently, in a rather arbitrary way. Shift + letter doesn’t always produce the same character as hold caps lock + letter + release caps lock. This is confusing and unnecessary.

The only real advantage to caps lock vs. holding a shift key down is that holding shift gets uncomfortable with some combinations, but with caps lock you can strike the keys one at a time instead of needing to make a chord.
.....
If you want to use caps lock to capitalize long stretches of text, and don’t like holding down shift or repeatedly pressing a ◊-like key, you’d be better off typing the text in lower case and then at the end invoking some command which capitalizes the whole word, line, or selection. Exactly what keystroke should invoke that command, how it should work, etc. depends on your personal preferences, and what kind of keystrokes you use for other navigation and selection commands. Basically all text editors currently have ****ty default setups for all of these basic functions, so I recommend customizing something to suit your own personal preferences.

Let me get this straight. The only disadvantage of the caps lock is that on rare occasions, you momentarily mistakenly have it active (which is corrected immediately) -- and most keyboards have an indicator for caps lock. This is the most trivial issue I've come across, so I'm really not sure what we're trying to solve here.

There are many other advantages of caps lock versus using shift. For example, I work in commercial building operation. When naming points and doing graphics, we often use all-caps. The letters are mixed with numbers though, making holding shift a lot more work than it's worth. With hundreds of names like "C04AHU16-P6STS", caps lock makes it a breeze. Using caps-lock makes the keyboard act exactly the same as without, just the letters are capitalized, leaving the numbers and symbols all the same so you can just type everything normally without thinking about it.

How in the world are you "better off typing the text in lower case and then at the end invoking some command which capitalizes [it]"? That seems like a lot more extra work than just tapping a button prior to typing it out. It would also vary depending on applications and be extremely difficult to be selective of what is capitalized and what is not. For example, when making a graphic at my work, how would I invoke a command to capitalize certain blocks of text, while not others? It would be different all over the place and from computer to computer. Nothing even remotely practical going on here.

And it still solves nothing. Caps lock has a lot of uses. Could they move it to where the "scroll lock" (which is actually purposeless) or pause/break is and ditch those? By all means.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 March 2015, 23:49:06
If you’re manually typing hundreds of names like C04AHU16-P6STS into a freeform text field, then IMO there’s probably something horribly wrong with the overall process that goes way beyond caps lock. But in any case, yes, I would rather type that as c04ahu16-p6sts and then afterward press a key/shortcut to invoke a "capitalize the previous word" command, instead of using a mode. It ends up taking one fewer keystroke, and in addition you eliminate the mode.

For me personally, caps lock has zero uses. I literally never use it. There are faster and easier ways to accomplish everything I can imagine ever wanting to do with a caps lock key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 00:11:09
If you’re manually typing hundreds of names like C04AHU16-P6STS into a freeform text field, then IMO there’s probably something horribly wrong with the overall process that goes way beyond caps lock. But in any case, yes, I would rather type that as c04ahu16-p6sts and then afterward press a key/shortcut to invoke a "capitalize the previous word" command, instead of using a mode. It ends up taking one fewer keystroke, and in addition you eliminate the mode.

For me personally, caps lock has zero uses. I literally never use it. There are faster and easier ways to accomplish everything I can imagine ever wanting to do with a caps lock key.

Are you actually trying to shave off two keystrokes (enabling/disabling CapsLock)? Wouldn't whatever shortcut for capitalizing the previous word require a keystroke combination of keys? It sounds overly complicated. Would you have to do this after each word? That would add a pile of keystrokes and mental work. Would the shortcut work in all programs (ie. across the OS)?

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand. Is this something you have implemented or is this something you would like to see implemented?

PS. I don't actually enter hundreds of those funky names at once, but I'll often make a bunch at a time when needed. Same thing with working with graphics/labels... it helps to just enable it. It's really for an older platform we still support... the newer stuff makes all the tags automatically, which is a godsend as you might imagine!  :eek:

I wouldn't mind seeing it replacing the Pause/Break button as I haven't used that once in my 22 years of computing. Frees up the prime real estate of the current CapsLock while leaving it as an option for those who use it.

Could make an interesting poll to see who uses it these days.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 00:26:51
Are you actually trying to shave off two keystrokes
No, I don’t care at all about two keystrokes. I’m trying to eliminate the mode, as I said several times. :-)

And yes, this is something I have implemented. I have a systemwide shortcut which marks the current insertion point, selects the current word, invokes a 'capitalize' command, and then restores the insertion point, and another shortcut which capitalizes the current selection. (In a more capable text editor, those two can be combined.)

If you have powerful text selection commands (for selecting in various directions by subwords/words/lines/sentences/paragraphs/screens, then it becomes a snap to quickly select specific chunks of text and invoke commands on the selection. This is more general and more powerful than just having a 'caps lock' key, because there are many things besides just capitalizing that I might want to do with some chunk of text.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 00:33:52
Are you actually trying to shave off two keystrokes
No, I don’t care at all about two keystrokes. I’m trying to eliminate the mode, as I said several times. :-)

And yes, this is something I have implemented. I have a systemwide shortcut which marks the current insertion point, selects the current word, invokes a 'capitalize' command, and then restores the insertion point, and another shortcut which capitalizes the current selection. (In a more capable text editor, those two can be combined.)

Quite interesting. I can sure see that being useful, especially for things you've already typed.

Still need the old fashioned capslock, so it isn't going anywhere just yet.  ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 01:48:48
For me personally, caps lock has zero uses. I literally never use it.

Neither keyboard I'm currently using even has capslock configured on it at the moment. My Code and my F both have capslock set as a second LCtrl. More necessary on the F since that doesn't have a shiny light to tell me the annoying thing is on. :P

I wouldn't mind seeing it replacing the Pause/Break button as I haven't used that once in my 22 years of computing. Frees up the prime real estate of the current CapsLock while leaving it as an option for those who use it.

Could make an interesting poll to see who uses it these days.

Does that key even do anything in Windows? Like, I literally have no idea what it's supposed to do. I have never used it for anything ever.

Same for Insert. OK yes it does something and I know what it does, but I've never found its behavior really useful. Remembering it and remembering to turn it back off and correcting for word length differences is more annoying than just shift+arrowing to select text and hitting backspace or delete. >_>;

Also the menu key is useless and should be replaced with something actually worthwhile like FN or just not there at all. Same with Menu as with Capslock, on the Code it's FN for the LEDs, on the F it's FN for accessing the F keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 02:09:44
Does that key even do anything in Windows? Like, I literally have no idea what it's supposed to do. I have never used it for anything ever.

Same for Insert. OK yes it does something and I know what it does, but I've never found its behavior really useful. Remembering it and remembering to turn it back off and correcting for word length differences is more annoying than just shift+arrowing to select text and hitting backspace or delete. >_>;

Also the menu key is useless and should be replaced with something actually worthwhile like FN or just not there at all. Same with Menu as with Capslock, on the Code it's FN for the LEDs, on the F it's FN for accessing the F keys.

I don't think Pause/Break has done anything in decades. Scroll lock doesn't seem to, either.

Insert was used mostly for the old DOS-like software where values had to be in certain positions. You could rewrite over a bunch of values, but you would have to delete them one by one. Systems like this are still used in inventory, ordering, car rentals, airport bookings, etc. I don't think many people use it in the desktop environment at all, though.

I've never bothered with the Menu key but recently I've learned from people that it can be useful for shortcuts provided you actually learn how to use it. For example, Menu>W>F to make a new folder in Windows. I think it's for those who like to fly around with the keyboard and avoid mouse interaction. I don't suspect more than a handful of people use it at all, but I figure those who do would swear by it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 02:19:01
Alt will already let you do that. Alt, f, w, f will create a new folder in Explorer. XD Maybe it cuts a key off that I guess? Dunno.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 28 March 2015, 02:22:20
Ctrl+Break stops the execution of a command line program. If you use CLI, it's indispensable. If not, you prob have no use for it at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Sat, 28 March 2015, 03:45:29
Ctrl+Break stops the execution of a command line program. If you use CLI, it's indispensable. If not, you prob have no use for it at all.

Is there any program you can't do that with ctrl+x, ctrl+c nowadays?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Sat, 28 March 2015, 03:55:38
There are many other advantages of caps lock versus using shift. For example, I work in commercial building operation. When naming points and doing graphics, we often use all-caps. The letters are mixed with numbers though, making holding shift a lot more work than it's worth. With hundreds of names like "C04AHU16-P6STS", caps lock makes it a breeze. Using caps-lock makes the keyboard act exactly the same as without, just the letters are capitalized, leaving the numbers and symbols all the same so you can just type everything normally without thinking about it.

This.

If you’re manually typing hundreds of names like C04AHU16-P6STS into a freeform text field, then IMO there’s probably something horribly wrong with the overall process that goes way beyond caps lock.

Yeah, because you're always in control of what you need to enter.

And yes, this is something I have implemented. I have a systemwide shortcut which marks the current insertion point, selects the current word, invokes a 'capitalize' command, and then restores the insertion point, and another shortcut which capitalizes the current selection. (In a more capable text editor, those two can be combined.)

If you have powerful text selection commands (for selecting in various directions by subwords/words/lines/sentences/paragraphs/screens, then it becomes a snap to quickly select specific chunks of text and invoke commands on the selection. This is more general and more powerful than just having a 'caps lock' key, because there are many things besides just capitalizing that I might want to do with some chunk of text.

Which you're doing at a software level. You want your keyboard controller to do that? Just how would I tell a keyboard to select a sentence in order to capitalize it? And in what world would you, knowing that you need that sentence capitalized, write it first and then capitalize?

Everyone has macros, dude. Don't get macros and keyboards confused.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 28 March 2015, 04:12:29
Most of these keys made sense back in the day of IBM CUA. For example, [C|S]-Insert was used for copypasta (and X.Org have adopted it).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hiroyuki on Sat, 28 March 2015, 08:44:29
1. (ANSI layout) Esc should be above tab, next to the 1-key, |\ and ~` should be where backspace is on standard keyboards, backspace should be where |\ normally is. LCtrl and CapsLock should be swapped.
2. I can't stand the <> being left of z on ISO keyboards, even worse, I really really dislike the huge enter key on ISO keyboards...
3. What's with the idiotic decision of placing {[]} on the third layer, having to use AltGraph to type them in Nordic layouts?
4. Instead of trying to get rid of capslock-mode, why don't we just teach everybody vim, then we would have full fledged modes to work with  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 28 March 2015, 09:34:28
1. (ANSI layout) Esc should be above tab, next to the 1-key, |\ and ~` should be where backspace is on standard keyboards, backspace should be where |\ normally is. LCtrl and CapsLock should be swapped.
2. I can't stand the <> being left of z on ISO keyboards, even worse, I really really dislike the huge enter key on ISO keyboards...
3. What's with the idiotic decision of placing {[]} on the third layer, having to use AltGraph to type them in Nordic layouts?
4. Instead of trying to get rid of capslock-mode, why don't we just teach everybody vim, then we would have full fledged modes to work with  :p

The <> keys aren't to the left of the Z on ISO boards, the |\ key is...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 28 March 2015, 09:48:38
The <> keys aren't to the left of the Z on ISO boards, the |\ key is...
They are, depending on particular national layout. The key itself returns an unique keycode though. I remap it to diacritic marks (as dead keys). Some people shift the ZXCVB cluster one key to the left, because this "angle mod" is more ergonomic than stock staggered QWERTY. Others use it as a layer toggle (see the Neo layout, for example).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 28 March 2015, 09:50:12
The <> keys aren't to the left of the Z on ISO boards, the |\ key is...
They are, depending on particular national layout. The key itself returns an unique keycode though. I remap it to diacritic marks (as dead keys). Some people shift the ZXCVB cluster one key to the left, because this "angle mod" is more ergonomic than stock staggered QWERTY. Others use it as a layer toggle (see the Neo layout, for example).

Oh yeah, it is on Nordic ISO. That's weird...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 10:46:10
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:10:09
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:27:42
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...

I am aware of that. They aren't as rigid or solid as my 2012 BW. One of the Ms is even bolt-modded.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:30:41
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...

I am aware of that. They aren't as rigid or solid as my 2012 BW. One of the Ms is even bolt-modded.

That is surprising. I would have expected both the Model Ms and the Realforce to be way out of the BWs league.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:33:10
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

I think it's well built as well. I have one that's still going as well. But I definitely disagree with it vs a Model M.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:37:47
I have absolutely zero doubt that many gaming keyboards feel tighter and sturdier than most high-quality equipment, which usually happens to feel hollow. However, it's reliability that matters in the long run.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:38:30
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...

I am aware of that. They aren't as rigid or solid as my 2012 BW. One of the Ms is even bolt-modded.

weeeeeeeeelllllllll about that....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:53:13
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...

I am aware of that. They aren't as rigid or solid as my 2012 BW. One of the Ms is even bolt-modded.

weeeeeeeeelllllllll about that....

It's just the truth. Both my Model M cases, and really all the cases I have, make all kinds of noises when you apply any kind of flex to them.

The BW (keep in mind it's not the same as the newer ones) is tight as a drum. Not a peep under flex/torsion. I took it apart once and it's held together by a ton of screws. The inside of the case is also quite well done... nice PCB (nearly black), lots of supports, and a nice plate. It weighs about the same as the Model M full size.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ms, and I use them a lot more. That doesn't mean that everything about them is better, though.

If you want to talk about tinny/cheap cases though, the Chicony feels like it's made from a Kinder Surprise...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:57:20
Bear in mind the Model Ms are probably 20 years older than the BW... The Model M has a massive metal plate inside it.

In a fight, the Model M would destroy a BW.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 11:58:20
I have an unpopular keyboard opinion:

The 2012 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate with Cherry MX Blue switches is actually a very well built keyboard, with the exception of the keycaps (which are quite dismal).
Of all my keyboards, the case is the most sturdy and thoroughly put together.

You have several Model Ms...

I am aware of that. They aren't as rigid or solid as my 2012 BW. One of the Ms is even bolt-modded.

weeeeeeeeelllllllll about that....

It's just the truth. Both my Model M cases, and really all the cases I have, make all kinds of noises when you apply any kind of flex to them.

The BW (keep in mind it's not the same as the newer ones) is tight as a drum. Not a peep under flex/torsion. I took it apart once and it's held together by a ton of screws. The inside of the case is also quite well done... nice PCB (nearly black), lots of supports, and a nice plate. It weighs about the same as the Model M full size.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ms, and I use them a lot more. That doesn't mean that everything about them is better, though.

If you want to talk about tinny/cheap cases though, the Chicony feels like it's made from a Kinder Surprise...

The BlackWidow Ultimate weighs around 1500g (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2456080,00.asp). The Model M weighs 2000g - 2500g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:00:46
Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:04:23
Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

(http://i.imgur.com/z1XzkLl.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:06:50
Yeah, because you're always in control of what you need to enter.
As a programmer, pretty much. If I’m manually typing too much boilerplate or bull****, then I’m doing something wrong, and something needs a better abstraction or needs to be automated.

Quote from: jacobolus
I have a systemwide shortcut which marks the current insertion point, selects the current word, invokes a 'capitalize' command, and then restores the insertion point, and another shortcut which capitalizes the current selection. (In a more capable text editor, those two can be combined.)

If you have powerful text selection commands (for selecting in various directions by subwords/words/lines/sentences/paragraphs/screens, then it becomes a snap to quickly select specific chunks of text and invoke commands on the selection. This is more general and more powerful than just having a 'caps lock' key, because there are many things besides just capitalizing that I might want to do with some chunk of text.

Quote from: sypl
Which you're doing at a software level. You want your keyboard controller to do that? Just how would I tell a keyboard to select a sentence in order to capitalize it? And in what world would you, knowing that you need that sentence capitalized, write it first and then capitalize?
The best level to handle these things depends on the text editor, operating system, and keyboard firmware in use. Unfortunately, because these things have evolved in a messy historical process, there are like 6–10 distinct layers of interpretation between physically pressing a key and access to the event by GUI software, especially e.g. on web pages. Those layers interact in complex and often stupid ways, because the people who built them solved particular needs instead of making properly general abstract models, and it’s somewhere between pathologically difficult and impossible to change several of them, depending on the operating system. This makes it basically impossible to have full control as a user over the way a keyboard interacts with a GUI. The best we can do is patch a few things here and a few things there. Having full control over the keyboard firmware makes many things much easier though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:11:46
It's just the truth. Both my Model M cases, and really all the cases I have, make all kinds of noises when you apply any kind of flex to them.

The BW (keep in mind it's not the same as the newer ones) is tight as a drum. Not a peep under flex/torsion. I took it apart once and it's held together by a ton of screws. The inside of the case is also quite well done... nice PCB (nearly black), lots of supports, and a nice plate. It weighs about the same as the Model M full size.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ms, and I use them a lot more. That doesn't mean that everything about them is better, though.

If you want to talk about tinny/cheap cases though, the Chicony feels like it's made from a Kinder Surprise...

The BlackWidow Ultimate weighs around 1500g (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2456080,00.asp). The Model M weighs 2000g - 2500g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard)

I just weighed them both and the BW is about 4/5 the weight of the M. Not that far off and still both quite heavy.

Having a heavy plate isn't enough to make it better put together, though, which is my point. There is no play, flex, squeaks, or anything that I can observe when applying force to the BW case.
It's drum-tight, uses a bunch more screws and reinforcement inside.

My Model Ms, despite one being bolt-modded, still makes a bunch of case noise and there is some play. I can just pick either one up by the sides and squeeze lightly and it makes the typical plasticky noises. There just isn't the reinforcement there. There's also no attention to detail inside the keyboard, and the plastic rivets were never going to make for a solid case.

Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

There is no "win"... Just that the older BW has a more solid case with more attention to detail than any other board I have.

My 87U top case shifts 1mm left/right, even.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:12:19
Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z1XzkLl.png)


(http://i.imgur.com/uONOMSZ.png)



> Posts unpopular opinion in unpopular opinion thread, gets accused of starting flame war


(http://i.imgur.com/HurrjOo.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:13:38
Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/z1XzkLl.png)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/uONOMSZ.png)




> Posts unpopular opinion in unpopular opinion thread, gets accused of starting flame war


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HurrjOo.jpg)


Yeah, fair enough. I was just joking around. Still though, I'd like to hear your reasons for not liking Model Ms considering they are so widely loved.

EDIT: Nice gif edit :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:17:02
They feel cheap.  They have too much torsional flex. They are wildly inconsistent between boards and sometimes even across the same board even when bolt modded or with all solid rivets. They have an annoying sharp ping (unlike the more pleasing click on a Model F). They have too much key wobble.  They don't age well, at least IMO.  Most require modding and a bit of work to feel decent.  I could go on, but don't feel like it.  I thought they were okay when I first tried one, then I tried a Model F AT and every flaw of the Model M was highlighted.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:18:40
It's just the truth. Both my Model M cases, and really all the cases I have, make all kinds of noises when you apply any kind of flex to them.

The BW (keep in mind it's not the same as the newer ones) is tight as a drum. Not a peep under flex/torsion. I took it apart once and it's held together by a ton of screws. The inside of the case is also quite well done... nice PCB (nearly black), lots of supports, and a nice plate. It weighs about the same as the Model M full size.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ms, and I use them a lot more. That doesn't mean that everything about them is better, though.

If you want to talk about tinny/cheap cases though, the Chicony feels like it's made from a Kinder Surprise...

The BlackWidow Ultimate weighs around 1500g (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2456080,00.asp). The Model M weighs 2000g - 2500g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard)

I just weighed them both and the BW is about 4/5 the weight of the M. Not that far off and still both quite heavy.

Having a heavy plate isn't enough to make it better put together, though, which is my point. There is no play, flex, squeaks, or anything that I can observe when applying force to the BW case.
It's drum-tight, uses a bunch more screws and reinforcement inside.

My Model Ms, despite one being bolt-modded, still makes a bunch of case noise and there is some play. I can just pick either one up by the sides and squeeze lightly and it makes the typical plasticky noises. There just isn't the reinforcement there. There's also no attention to detail inside the keyboard, and the plastic rivets were never going to make for a solid case.

Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

There is no "win"... Just that the older BW has a more solid case with more attention to detail than any other board I have.

My 87U top case shifts 1mm left/right, even.

The real question is: does it matter?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:22:06
It's just the truth. Both my Model M cases, and really all the cases I have, make all kinds of noises when you apply any kind of flex to them.

The BW (keep in mind it's not the same as the newer ones) is tight as a drum. Not a peep under flex/torsion. I took it apart once and it's held together by a ton of screws. The inside of the case is also quite well done... nice PCB (nearly black), lots of supports, and a nice plate. It weighs about the same as the Model M full size.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ms, and I use them a lot more. That doesn't mean that everything about them is better, though.

If you want to talk about tinny/cheap cases though, the Chicony feels like it's made from a Kinder Surprise...

The BlackWidow Ultimate weighs around 1500g (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2456080,00.asp). The Model M weighs 2000g - 2500g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard)

I just weighed them both and the BW is about 4/5 the weight of the M. Not that far off and still both quite heavy.

Having a heavy plate isn't enough to make it better put together, though, which is my point. There is no play, flex, squeaks, or anything that I can observe when applying force to the BW case.
It's drum-tight, uses a bunch more screws and reinforcement inside.

My Model Ms, despite one being bolt-modded, still makes a bunch of case noise and there is some play. I can just pick either one up by the sides and squeeze lightly and it makes the typical plasticky noises. There just isn't the reinforcement there. There's also no attention to detail inside the keyboard, and the plastic rivets were never going to make for a solid case.

Why are we arguing which would win?  Both Model Ms and the Black Widow suck.

There is no "win"... Just that the older BW has a more solid case with more attention to detail than any other board I have.

My 87U top case shifts 1mm left/right, even.

A friend has a 2012 (or 13) BW and really likes it. I suspect that as they moved to cheaper switches they also moved to cheaper cases though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:36:10
A friend has a 2012 (or 13) BW and really likes it. I suspect that as they moved to cheaper switches they also moved to cheaper cases though.

I know for a fact both are true. I've witnessed the decline as the local stores carry display models of them around here. It's sad they've gotten quite a bit worse in all respects while maintaining the high price point.

It's also worth giving some credit to Razer for putting MX Cherry boards into the main box stores at a time nobody else really was. People could go to BestBuy/Futureshop and compare MX Brown/Blue switches and see how they feel. Bit of a gamble as the market for >$100 keyboards was quite niche and almost entirely online at that point. Could be one of the reasons so many show up here with a BW having been their first taste.

I know I'm mostly on my own with this opinion but I do stand by it.  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: inanis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:45:33

Same for Insert. OK yes it does something and I know what it does, but I've never found its behavior really useful. Remembering it and remembering to turn it back off and correcting for word length differences is more annoying than just shift+arrowing to select text and hitting backspace or delete. >_>;

Insert is super functional. When working in VMWare Ctrl + Alt + Insert takes the place of Ctrl + Alt + Delete. As a heavy VM user, I am using that key all the time. I bet that whoever decided the final layout for the FC660 knew that as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:52:33
Yeah, because you're always in control of what you need to enter.
As a programmer, pretty much. If I’m manually typing too much boilerplate or bull****, then I’m doing something wrong, and something needs a better abstraction or needs to be automated.

Quote from: jacobolus
I have a systemwide shortcut which marks the current insertion point, selects the current word, invokes a 'capitalize' command, and then restores the insertion point, and another shortcut which capitalizes the current selection. (In a more capable text editor, those two can be combined.)

If you have powerful text selection commands (for selecting in various directions by subwords/words/lines/sentences/paragraphs/screens, then it becomes a snap to quickly select specific chunks of text and invoke commands on the selection. This is more general and more powerful than just having a 'caps lock' key, because there are many things besides just capitalizing that I might want to do with some chunk of text.

Quote from: sypl
Which you're doing at a software level. You want your keyboard controller to do that? Just how would I tell a keyboard to select a sentence in order to capitalize it? And in what world would you, knowing that you need that sentence capitalized, write it first and then capitalize?
The best level to handle these things depends on the text editor, operating system, and keyboard firmware in use. Unfortunately, because these things have evolved in a messy historical process, there are like 6–10 distinct layers of interpretation between physically pressing a key and access to the event by GUI software, especially e.g. on web pages. Those layers interact in complex and often stupid ways, because the people who built them solved particular needs instead of making properly general abstract models, and it’s somewhere between pathologically difficult and impossible to change several of them, depending on the operating system. This makes it basically impossible to have full control as a user over the way a keyboard interacts with a GUI. The best we can do is patch a few things here and a few things there. Having full control over the keyboard firmware makes many things much easier though.

Well, exactly. I know what the sequence of keys is to select a paragraph and capitalize it is in, say, sublime text, but it's completely different in vim. What you enter in to your keyboard though should have absolutely identical results, every time, irrespective or something like text editor. If you need it to work that way in a particular application, then you need some software in the middle (karabiner, autohotkey, alfred?) that interprets your shortcut to do as you wish in that program only.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sat, 28 March 2015, 21:48:39
Artisan Keycaps are disgusting, and ruin any real class a keyboard may have had before the artisan pimple arrived on its face.

HHKB aren't overrated imo, they are wonderful keyboards, but I do think they are slightly overpriced.

In terms of layout I won't make any judgements. I know from learning DVORAK and COLEMAK, getting used to the HHKB layout, and various other tweaks that a person can get used to anything. I'm always looking for ways to improve my own layout and comfort while typing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rsadek on Sat, 28 March 2015, 21:53:31
Unpopular opinion, I think, is that we don't need so many windows keys, esp in group buys. A lot of folks use Mac, Linux, Unix, etc. The hegemony of win/menu pairings is frustrating. Let's have some other keys in the mix!

(Seriously, I know the windows keys shortcuts are useful for many, but who wants the windows logo on their keyboard? Is windows so lovely? )
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sat, 28 March 2015, 22:10:10
i am glad no one said g710+ was a good keyboard.

:)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chicken on Sat, 28 March 2015, 22:50:55
i am glad no one said g710+ was a good keyboard.

:)
I don't get it either. It's literally a g710 with browns and ****ty o-rings

Alps are cool, but unless matias can mass produce pbt keycaps, it will stay a niche.
If Razer switched to gaterons from kailh, everyone would buy Razer
If l bought a keyboard without a arrowkeys, I would feel empty
40% is useless unless it's ergonomic (Atreus)
The HHKB is stupid, but topre itself is OK.
Your stock keycaps are usually OK
Non-sculpted keycaps are better than cherry profile




Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 23:06:54
Alps are cool, but unless matias can mass produce pbt keycaps, it will stay a niche. [...] Your stock keycaps are usually OK
How do you reconcile these two claims?

Quote
Non-sculpted keycaps are better than cherry profile
Can you explain why you think this?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chicken on Sat, 28 March 2015, 23:44:39
Alps are cool, but unless matias can mass produce pbt keycaps, it will stay a niche. [...] Your stock keycaps are usually OK
How do you reconcile these two claims?

Quote
Non-sculpted keycaps are better than cherry profile
Can you explain why you think this?

1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sun, 29 March 2015, 08:58:58

Alps are cool, but unless matias can mass produce pbt keycaps, it will stay a niche. [...] Your stock keycaps are usually OK
How do you reconcile these two claims?

Quote
Non-sculpted keycaps are better than cherry profile
Can you explain why you think this?

1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.
He has rethought that out, as stock abs is different than other abs, it's lower quality, and you are basing your opinion on someone else's?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 29 March 2015, 09:12:24

[/quote]

1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.
[/quote]

The only benefit to PBT is that it doesn't shine nearly as easily. That being said I think thickness is far more important than keycap material. Id much rather have a nice GMK ABS set than a cheap PBT set. But if thickness was exactly the same I'd go PBT every day because they don't shine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sun, 29 March 2015, 09:51:52


1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.
[/quote]

The only benefit to PBT is that it doesn't shine nearly as easily. That being said I think thickness is far more important than keycap material. Id much rather have a nice GMK ABS set than a cheap PBT set. But if thickness was exactly the same I'd go PBT every day because they don't shine.
[/quote]

In my limited experience the texture of PBT is definitely superior, and the sound seems better even for comparable thickness caps. The 'thockier' the better when it comes to caps bottoming out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chicken on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:15:28

Alps are cool, but unless matias can mass produce pbt keycaps, it will stay a niche. [...] Your stock keycaps are usually OK
How do you reconcile these two claims?

Quote
Non-sculpted keycaps are better than cherry profile
Can you explain why you think this?

1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.
He has rethought that out, as stock abs is different than other abs, it's lower quality, and you are basing your opinion on someone else's?

I was just saying that a lot of people prefer pbt, not hating on him in particular
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:15:45
Unpopular opinion, I think, is that we don't need so many windows keys, esp in group buys. A lot of folks use Mac, Linux, Unix, etc. The hegemony of win/menu pairings is frustrating. Let's have some other keys in the mix!

(Seriously, I know the windows keys shortcuts are useful for many, but who wants the windows logo on their keyboard? Is windows so lovely? )

It would probably be just as well if they just made them blank. Might it be because so many boards don't support Mac properly?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chicken on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:22:32


1. A lot of people still want pbt keycaps, even though I don't think they're important. People like snipars think it's unbearable to type on abs, so alps really isn't an option


2. This doesn't really come up if the keysets are blank, but cherry profile isn't as useful to me as the ability to move around letters, if I switch my layout.

The only benefit to PBT is that it doesn't shine nearly as easily. That being said I think thickness is far more important than keycap material. Id much rather have a nice GMK ABS set than a cheap PBT set. But if thickness was exactly the same I'd go PBT every day because they don't shine.
[/quote]

In my limited experience the texture of PBT is definitely superior, and the sound seems better even for comparable thickness caps. The 'thockier' the better when it comes to caps bottoming out.
[/quote]

I really don't care too much about the look or feel of each keycap, but I see your point on sound. The type heaven sounds unbearable with stock keycaps, but sounds a lot nicer with pbt. But l still wouldn't spend money on my keycaps, unless my stock keycap legends started wearing or something.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:22:32
Unpopular opinion, I think, is that we don't need so many windows keys, esp in group buys. A lot of folks use Mac, Linux, Unix, etc. The hegemony of win/menu pairings is frustrating. Let's have some other keys in the mix!

(Seriously, I know the windows keys shortcuts are useful for many, but who wants the windows logo on their keyboard? Is windows so lovely? )

It would probably be just as well if they just made them blank. Might it be because so many boards don't support Mac properly?
Its mostly windows keys because that is the majority of users, blank would look weird with other legend keys around it, and also most manufactures already have the tooling for windows keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chicken on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:25:11
Unpopular opinion, I think, is that we don't need so many windows keys, esp in group buys. A lot of folks use Mac, Linux, Unix, etc. The hegemony of win/menu pairings is frustrating. Let's have some other keys in the mix!

(Seriously, I know the windows keys shortcuts are useful for many, but who wants the windows logo on their keyboard? Is windows so lovely? )

It would probably be just as well if they just made them blank. Might it be because so many boards don't support
  Mac properly?
Its mostly windows keys because that is the majority of users, blank would look weird with other legend keys around it, and also most manufactures already have the tooling for windows keys.

Yeah, windows is allot more common than other operating systems, so companies cater to the masses
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:49:54
The 456 and 356 Korean keyboards are overhyped and overpriced.  $500 on a custom keyboard is already a **** ton of money, but spending $1k+ on a keyboard is just silly, even if you are making 6 figures or more a year.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:17:48
The 456 and 356 Korean keyboards are overhyped and overpriced.  $500 on a custom keyboard is already a **** ton of money, but spending $1k+ on a keyboard is just silly, even if you are making 6 figures or more a year.
who's spending more that $1k on a 456? or plenty of 356 for that matter
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:19:31
The 456 and 356 Korean keyboards are overhyped and overpriced.  $500 on a custom keyboard is already a **** ton of money, but spending $1k+ on a keyboard is just silly, even if you are making 6 figures or more a year.
who's spending more that $1k on a 456? or plenty of 356 for that matter

Someone apparently. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70403.0)  And I've seen people appraise some of those keyboards north of $1k in the price check thread.  It might have been due to color, but still.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:22:32
The 456 and 356 Korean keyboards are overhyped and overpriced.  $500 on a custom keyboard is already a **** ton of money, but spending $1k+ on a keyboard is just silly, even if you are making 6 figures or more a year.
who's spending more that $1k on a 456? or plenty of 356 for that matter

Someone apparently. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70403.0)  And I've seen people appraise some of those keyboards north of $1k in the price check thread.  It might have been due to color, but still.
I mean that's with a $140 set, cable, and case, and I still thought that price was pretty high.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:26:42
The 456 and 356 Korean keyboards are overhyped and overpriced.  $500 on a custom keyboard is already a **** ton of money, but spending $1k+ on a keyboard is just silly, even if you are making 6 figures or more a year.
who's spending more that $1k on a 456? or plenty of 356 for that matter

Someone apparently. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70403.0)  And I've seen people appraise some of those keyboards north of $1k in the price check thread.  It might have been due to color, but still.
I mean that's with a $140 set, cable, and case, and I still thought that price was pretty high.

I just have a hard time dropping more than $100 on a keyboard and $250 is probably my max.  The one I spent a ton on was my Kingsaver and that was because it was Alps.  Even that was hard to justify.  When I see people dropping $750+ on a keyboard, it makes me question their sanity.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 29 March 2015, 14:04:21
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KnivesM on Sun, 29 March 2015, 14:12:54
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...
I like hyperfuse but I agree on Miami
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sun, 29 March 2015, 14:20:45
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...

miami for sure
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 14:34:31
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...
+1
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Huxley2500 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 20:43:34
Blue Cherry MX clicks soothes the soul.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 20:50:48
Blue Cherry MX clicks soothes the soul.
damn straight
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 29 March 2015, 20:51:51
Blue Cherry MX clicks soothes the soul.

Like nails on a chalkboard to me.  Too damn shrill.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sun, 29 March 2015, 21:09:45
Blue Cherry MX clicks soothes the soul.

#dattruth
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hiroyuki on Mon, 30 March 2015, 00:41:41
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...

+1, I agree with you on this one...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 30 March 2015, 17:44:15
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...

I have a Miami set and would agree, ha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoC_Tow on Mon, 30 March 2015, 17:57:32
I believe most of you would disagree, but I think Hyperfuse and Miami keyset are really ugly...

D=

I <3 both, but I can see how Miami might not fit everyones taste. =)


I have a Miami set and would agree, ha.


If you don't like your Miami set, I wouldn't mind buying one speedbumb! xD



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 01 April 2015, 02:37:17
imo, plate with holes for opening switches is ridiculous...   You are not going to change your switches as often as keycaps.  I think most people just stay with the same switches after they assembly the keyboard.  I really don't get the idea of plate with "holes"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Wed, 01 April 2015, 07:17:18
imo, plate with holes for opening switches is ridiculous...   You are not going to change your switches as often as keycaps.  I think most people just stay with the same switches after they assembly the keyboard.  I really don't get the idea of plate with "holes"

What if you sell the keyboard and someone else wants a different switch? I've passed on a lot of keyboards in the classifieds b/c I don't feel like desoldering 80+ switches.

Also, it's plausible someone wants to change from a 62g ergo-Clear, to a 68g ergo-Clear. Notched cutouts make that a breeze.

In addition, perhaps several years down the line, you want to relube, notched cutouts make that much easier.

Having switch cutouts doesn't take anything away, but only adds more options.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:00:20
[...] Model Ms [...] suck.

I know you've already explained this, but I still need to call you out for it.

 >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:23:29
[...] Model Ms [...] suck.

I know you've already explained this, but I still need to call you out for it.

 >:D

Why do you care so much what other people think of Model M keyboards?

Good question.  Maybe I shouldn't.  Thanks.

To each their own.  Happy-happy joy-joy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hyde on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:25:31
Here's a shocker for most of you guys.

I prefer the feel of stock keycaps.

:D

So I've gone through IMSTO PBT, GMK ABS Double Shot ABS, Vortex Double Shot PBT, Vortex Grey PBT Blank (Similar to Poker stock PBT), and in the end I went back to stock thin ABS keycaps on my Filco (MX Red).

I was trying to find the perfect keycaps but in the end PBT is just too harsh for me.  I like how ABS absorbs a bit of the vibration and feels more "comfortable" to use.

Here is another unpopular opinion, I also like the feel of coated backlit keycaps LOLLLLL.

I like the feel of softer keycaps, if only this was more resistant to shine then it would've been perfect.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:26:18
[...] Model Ms [...] suck.

I know you've already explained this, but I still need to call you out for it.

 >:D

Model Ms are the Cherry MY of the Buckling Spring world.  Sure, we call them mechanical, but they're still just mediocre to crappy feeling membrane boards in a fancy suit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:26:25
Here's a shocker for most of you guys.

I prefer the feel of stock keycaps.

:D

So I've gone through IMSTO PBT, GMK ABS Double Shot ABS, Vortex Double Shot PBT, Vortex Grey PBT Blank (Similar to Poker stock PBT), and in the end I went back to stock thin ABS keycaps on my Filco (MX Red).

I was trying to find the perfect keycaps but in the end PBT is just too harsh for me.  I like how ABS absorbs a bit of the vibration and feels more "comfortable" to use.

Here is another unpopular opinion, I also like the feel of coated backlit keycaps LOLLLLL.

I like the feel of softer keycaps, if only this was more resistant to shine then it would've been perfect.

 :eek: :eek: :eek:

I guess this is good for you, though.  Much cheaper than the alternative.  :))


[...] Model Ms [...] suck.

I know you've already explained this, but I still need to call you out for it.

 >:D

Model Ms are the Cherry MY of the Buckling Spring world.  Sure, we call them mechanical, but they're still just mediocre to crappy feeling membrane boards in a fancy suit.

I can agree with MX : F :: MY : M, but I cannot agree that MY ~ M.  M is still a wonderful typing experience, and the same cannot be said about MY.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:34:34
You just haven't tried the Black MY switches or new fresh out the box MY switches.  They feel like a linear version of Model Ms.  Both are disappointing, only one of them is overrated and the other is demonized.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:37:47
You just haven't tried the Black MY switches or new fresh out the box MY switches.  They feel like a linear version of Model Ms.  Both are disappointing, only one of them is overrated and the other is demonized.

I actually just received a Black MY board (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70562.msg1703616#msg1703616)!   :-*

I still disagree.  But I'm also not a fan of linear switches, so for you to compare them to Model M does not compute in my brain.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hyde on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:39:39
Here's a shocker for most of you guys.

I prefer the feel of stock keycaps.

:D

So I've gone through IMSTO PBT, GMK ABS Double Shot ABS, Vortex Double Shot PBT, Vortex Grey PBT Blank (Similar to Poker stock PBT), and in the end I went back to stock thin ABS keycaps on my Filco (MX Red).

I was trying to find the perfect keycaps but in the end PBT is just too harsh for me.  I like how ABS absorbs a bit of the vibration and feels more "comfortable" to use.

Here is another unpopular opinion, I also like the feel of coated backlit keycaps LOLLLLL.

I like the feel of softer keycaps, if only this was more resistant to shine then it would've been perfect.

 :eek: :eek: :eek:

I guess this is good for you, though.  Much cheaper than the alternative.  :))

lol but I only find this out after spending maybe around $500 on various keycaps.  :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:55:09
[Cherry MY] feel like a linear version of Model Ms.
This doesn’t make any sense.

If you picked 100 random people off the street, gave them a Model M and a Cherry MY board, not a single one would think they feel remotely similar.

In other words, you win the thread: this is a very unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 03 April 2015, 22:00:36
[Cherry MY] feel like a linear version of Model Ms.
This doesn’t even make sense.

It makes perfect sense.  It feels like the dime a dozen spring over membrane typewriter keyboards that are basically a Model M without a hammer in their operation.  Since they are both spring over membrane (Model Ms just have a hammer), it is not unreasonable to say that it feels like a linear version of a Model M.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 03 April 2015, 22:01:13
I think using phantom with 1.25x bottom row ansi layout in filco stock case is ridiculous
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 03 April 2015, 22:11:15
[Cherry MY] feel like a linear version of Model Ms.
This doesn’t even make sense.

It makes perfect sense.  It feels like the dime a dozen spring over membrane typewriter keyboards that are basically a Model M without a hammer in their operation.  Since they are both spring over membrane (Model Ms just have a hammer), it is not unreasonable to say that it feels like a linear version of a Model M.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! 
Okay!  That's your unpopular opinion.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 03 April 2015, 22:13:44
I think using phantom with 1.25x bottom row ansi layout in filco stock case is ridiculous

But what if you have split backspace and reprogram other aspects of the board? 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 03 April 2015, 23:15:53
I think using phantom with 1.25x bottom row ansi layout in filco stock case is ridiculous

But what if you have split backspace and reprogram other aspects of the board?
I should be more clear, i mean exact same layout as a ansi filco.  I have seen that few time.  I feel that way because you can simply put a different controller in it  and reprogram the whole thing. of course, split backspace is cool  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 03 April 2015, 23:27:20
I think using phantom with 1.25x bottom row ansi layout in filco stock case is ridiculous

But what if you have split backspace and reprogram other aspects of the board?
I should be more clear, i mean exact same layout as a ansi filco.  I have seen that few time.  I feel that way because you can simply put a different controller in it  and reprogram the whole thing. of course, split backspace is cool  :p

I figured that's what you were getting at.  ;)  I agree, using the default layout is a bit strange.  :P 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sat, 04 April 2015, 02:42:11
LOL, what a funny topic. The forum's delightful bulleted-list feature was made for this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 04 April 2015, 02:45:31
LOL, what a funny topic. The forum's delightful bulleted-list feature was made for this.
  • Model M's are awesome, but paying 2–3x as much for a SSK? Because they're smaller and cuter or something? Okay, there's the rarity/collectability thing—but what if a sudden career change requires you to become an accountant? Then there you are, stuck with a goofy "embedded" numpad for which you paid all that extra dough. This could happen to any of us.
  • 60% keyboards are goofy for most people. But what if you're a coder who uses Vim or Emacs or another text editor that lets you do anything in the universe without moving your arms? In fact, I always assumed 60% were designed for those people, for whom any more % is a waste. If you're not one of these people, don't get a 60% and stop whining.
  • Gaming keyboards that look like Star Wars props. Maybe you should just get out more?
  • $200 keycaps with little robot faces? Hello? I can't help thinking of "The Emperor's New Clothes", remember that story? Sometimes people indulge in the goofiest things just to feel included. "Yeah, these guys think these little $200 robot-face keycaps are really cool, so they must be worth all that dough. After all, they're not just keycaps—they have little robot faces!" Sorry, but buying into random high-priced stuff just because other people are doing it is a sign of neediness, not individuality. A new Mercedes may be ridiculously overpriced—but unlike an artsy-craftsy un-ergonomic raised-surface keycap, your experience of using it will probably be an improvement. And it actually means something—it's a car.
  • Backlighting. So you're looking at your KB when you use it? You're not a touch typist then? This you want to advertise? Blank keys, now, that's impressive. You'd probably want to backlight those too, though.
  • The tattoos-all-over-your-body thing. Did you know that for most of the 19th and 20th centuries people like that were considered freaks, and other people paid to gape at them in circus sideshows because they were so horrendously odd? And that now, with so many people doing that to themselves, it's not even odd anymore—so all you are is a common freak? What's next, people festooning their bodies with little robot-face keycaps? (That's why this is keyboard-related.)
Sure some people might put caps on their board because other people are, but I know I do it to support the artist, because thats what it is, a work of art for your keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sat, 04 April 2015, 04:35:01
I like dancers, too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to hire one to dance on my KB.

Well, okay, maybe if she's wearing a robot mask... That would make a big difference.  :?D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Sat, 04 April 2015, 18:22:22
FC660M is the ONE TRUE LAYOUT!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: slaction on Sat, 04 April 2015, 21:50:10
Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 04 April 2015, 22:03:19
FC660M is the ONE TRUE LAYOUT!

That is pretty unpopular.  Right up there with love for 75% boards.  There's just so much wasted space.


Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.

There are more than a few people who feel that way.  I still like them as accent pieces, but everyone feels differently about them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 04 April 2015, 23:43:01
FC660M is the ONE TRUE LAYOUT!


I like it, but it is really hard to get sets that has the second left shift, and almost impossible to get the space bar with those strange stem positions. In the aesthetics side, the lack of symmetry may be annoying some times.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Sun, 05 April 2015, 03:43:59
FC660M is the ONE TRUE LAYOUT!

That is pretty unpopular.  Right up there with love for 75% boards.  There's just so much wasted space.

I like the little strip of whitespace on the side. I find it more relaxing and less oppressive to look at than something like a poker or v60 which I find like a "wall of keys." It's just a little detail that sets the whole thing off nicely.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sypl on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:14:09
Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.

This is unpopular? Other than the holyoops ones, I would say they pretty much all look like ass. And who are these people paying for keys, which the better you are as a typist, the less you look at? Those skull ones are particularly awful.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:32:48
Other than the holyoops ones, I would say they pretty much all look like ass.

Mandolin creates some stunning artworks, but then they are so nice that you don't want to actually USE them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:35:17
Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.

This is unpopular? Other than the holyoops ones, I would say they pretty much all look like ass. And who are these people paying for keys, which the better you are as a typist, the less you look at? Those skull ones are particularly awful.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said they hated artisans...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:37:43
Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.

This is unpopular? Other than the holyoops ones, I would say they pretty much all look like ass. And who are these people paying for keys, which the better you are as a typist, the less you look at? Those skull ones are particularly awful.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said they hated artisans...

You'd have enough to win a Clack auction on eBay.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shroomster on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:52:19
Here we go.....

Most Artisan caps look like chewed gum and are horribly overrated IMO.

*runs and hides in back alley.

This is unpopular? Other than the holyoops ones, I would say they pretty much all look like ass. And who are these people paying for keys, which the better you are as a typist, the less you look at? Those skull ones are particularly awful.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said they hated artisans...

You'd have enough to win a Clack auction on eBay.
Oh Christ, thanks for the giggles. Made my day. :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 06 April 2015, 00:32:28
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).

Mechanical boards can be nice- I've loved my several Model Ms and my Alps boards, but Cherry MX? Nice form factor and key cap options, but from a typing perspective I just don't get the hype.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 06 April 2015, 14:16:41
  • The tattoos-all-over-your-body thing. Did you know that for most of the 19th and 20th centuries people like that were considered freaks, and other people paid to gape at them in circus sideshows because they were so horrendously odd? And that now, with so many people transforming themselves into human versions of 1980's airbrushed custom vans, it's not even odd anymore—so all you are is a common freak? What's next, people gluing little robot-face keycaps all over their bodies? (That's why this is keyboard-related, see... I'm prepared for anything.)

> Thread for unpopular keyboard opinions

> Calls people freaks for something completely unrelated to keyboards

I know you're just a troll, but come on man.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Mon, 06 April 2015, 14:59:46

*I simply dont like linear switches.
*I kind of like mx browns.
*I like building keyboards more than i like writing on them.
*Ive never felt the urge to get a artisan cap, and therfore i hate that the classifieds is filled with them :P, we should get a artisan marketplace.
*I love thick OEM PBT keycaps.

Probably more, but right now, i dont know if they are unpopular :)



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Barbastruzzolo on Tue, 07 April 2015, 01:51:48
- For me the only correct way to cut, copy, paste with keyboard is RIGHT CTRL + [XCV]. So I don't get all this caps lock remapping thing...
- For the same reason i dislike all keyboards that don't have a right ctrl key (even if i own a Filco Minila in my collection).
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).
- I don't like Windows keys and I think keyboards are better looking without them.
- I think kilohertz polling rate is useless.
- I think all "gaming" keyboards are ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 07 April 2015, 06:43:45
- I think all "gaming" keyboards are ugly.
one of the most popular opinions around here :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Tue, 07 April 2015, 07:19:46
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).

Let's be realistic here - how many Italians are around here. Yes there are a few, but you've got to accept that you are in a very small minority. A keyset with an Italian legends add-on would sell 5 sets, tops. That is not worth it and will drive up the prices for everyone else.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 07 April 2015, 07:23:05
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).

Let's be realistic here - how many Italians are around here. Yes there are a few, but you've got to accept that you are in a very small minority. A keyset with an Italian legends add-on would sell 5 sets, tops. That is not worth it and will drive up the prices for everyone else.

The granite approach : big kit for international users, that can be split. Not sure if any set but Granite can pull this off though.
(https://massdrop-cf2.imgix.net/resizer/797x777/r/MD-3318_20140823133913_ab4e2c31006eef73.jpg?fm=jpg&q=70)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Baxter on Tue, 07 April 2015, 07:41:22
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).

Let's be realistic here - how many Italians are around here. Yes there are a few, but you've got to accept that you are in a very small minority. A keyset with an Italian legends add-on would sell 5 sets, tops. That is not worth it and will drive up the prices for everyone else.

The granite approach : big kit for international users, that can be split. Not sure if any set but Granite can pull this off though.

As a european and an ISO user I'm generally happy with this compromise, at least on SP I'm happier with the bargain that I'm paying more for keycaps that I won't use in return for consolidating niche requirements that were always going to fail individually (with the added benefit that I might be making 3 Italians happy).

Better I'm down an extra £18 for a complete set than stuck with a partial set that missed completion by one vote.

I'm not really sure where the critical cost lies for SP since they have given in to special pleading for extras that just missed their tipping point in the past.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 07 April 2015, 14:27:16
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).

Mechanical boards can be nice- I've loved my several Model Ms and my Alps boards, but Cherry MX? Nice form factor and key cap options, but from a typing perspective I just don't get the hype.

Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Tue, 07 April 2015, 14:45:32
- I disdain all keycap sellers that don't make ISO keycaps (especially with Italian legends).

Let's be realistic here - how many Italians are around here. Yes there are a few, but you've got to accept that you are in a very small minority. A keyset with an Italian legends add-on would sell 5 sets, tops. That is not worth it and will drive up the prices for everyone else.

The granite approach : big kit for international users, that can be split. Not sure if any set but Granite can pull this off though.

As a european and an ISO user I'm generally happy with this compromise, at least on SP I'm happier with the bargain that I'm paying more for keycaps that I won't use in return for consolidating niche requirements that were always going to fail individually (with the added benefit that I might be making 3 Italians happy).

Better I'm down an extra £18 for a complete set than stuck with a partial set that missed completion by one vote.

I'm not really sure where the critical cost lies for SP since they have given in to special pleading for extras that just missed their tipping point in the past.

i'm not specifically replying to you, just commenting on intl legends.


has anyone broken down those sets into mutually exclusive languages?

for a set supporting german, norweigan, and swedish, let's say norweigan and swedish share 1 key, but german is completely exclusive.  a swedish buyer could sell some of his intl legends set to a german buyer and get half of his money back, but could NOT do the same with a norweigan buyer
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Ettasian on Tue, 07 April 2015, 15:06:27
1. I prefer XT layout over AT.
2. Good linear switches are best, most clickers suck ass and tend to get 'old 'n rusty'
3. I like MX Reds. For typing.
4. Backlight is just an addition to a keyboard, but it can look awesome and even help (green backlit can help your eyes actually)
5. I would rather buy an old M, F or some cherries or even alps over 26MacroKeys99KRO revolutionary gamin' keyboard anytime.
6. I don't collect keyboards because they make me type faster(50WPM maybe, don't even care), or neither i want to show off, I just gather some great pieces of modern craftsmanship that are also great tools for work and entertainment, and I just feel better with them by my side, and i preserve them.

And last..

7.I am listening to Celine Dion at this very moment. And I love you all. Also RIPster is a great guy for all he does for keyboard science.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 07 April 2015, 20:52:30
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).
Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.


NKRO is completely overrated. For $100+, I want a serious keyboard that is a dream to type on, not a crappy Razer that will let me pwn n00bs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 07 April 2015, 20:56:55
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).
Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.


NKRO is completely overrated. For $100+, I want a serious keyboard that is a dream to type on, not a crappy Razer that will let me pwn n00bs.
I mean, NKRO is useful for certain games that require large combinations of keys. I personally have never found a use for more than 6KRO, but some people do. Some people use keyboards for purposes other than typing
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 08 April 2015, 07:16:20
I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion:

I think that stock MX switches are only marginally nicer to type on than a decent quality membrane keyboard. This is based on owning two boards which came with with Clears and Blacks. Both were completely underwhelming. They are not bad, but they are not worth the premiums that mechanical boards usually cost (fortunately my second MX board was massively discounted, and I bought it for an unsual layout and ease of accessing the switch internals).
Tell me about your membrane keyboard with NKRO.


NKRO is completely overrated. For $100+, I want a serious keyboard that is a dream to type on, not a crappy Razer that will let me pwn n00bs.

Tell me about your membrane keyboard with 6KRO and not just a crappy "optimized" matrix. (BTW some vendors are crippling their products on purpose; look up, say, Logitech K800/Illuminated and Shift-W-spacebar—the combo worked in some early revisions, but not the newer ones; what did the support answer? buy a keyboard marketed as "gaming" instead.)

If the keyboard doesn't distinguish between modifiers and ordinary (single-tap) keys, it's much more elegant and makes remapping easier (e.g., something like a more aggressive wide mod), although it doesn't really matter with 6KRO over USB in practice.

If you want some actual use cases, here you go: stenography, local multiplayer on a single keyboard, piano simulators. I've done each of that over the years.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 08 April 2015, 09:21:09
If the keyboard doesn't distinguish between modifiers and ordinary (single-tap) keys, it's much more elegant and makes remapping easier (e.g., something like a more aggressive wide mod), although it doesn't really matter with 6KRO over USB in practice.

If you want some actual use cases, here you go: stenography, local multiplayer on a single keyboard, piano simulators. I've done each of that over the years.

Riiight... so that's sub one percent of keyboard users? If you need it, good for you. The more power to all the stenographers out there, or people who want to play piano on a computer, instead of, you know, a piano. I'm not sure what "local multiplayer on a single keyboard" means though.

Edit: I'm not that serious about knocking 6KRO or NKRO, I just don't think that it's really a huge deal for most people, especially people who just want to type or code. I happen to game a little and appreciate 6KRO, but I wouldn't base my keyboard decision on it because I spent most the time typing instead of playing games. I haven't even bothered to enable NKRO on my board, and all it requires is flipping a DIP switch.

My original point is that IMO, Cherry MX is a bit of a crappy feeling mechanism... it just feels too full of compromises without lots of modification effort. I know this is an unpopular opinion, which is why I posted it in the "unpopular keyboard opinions" thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 08 April 2015, 11:42:27
If the keyboard doesn't distinguish between modifiers and ordinary (single-tap) keys, it's much more elegant and makes remapping easier (e.g., something like a more aggressive wide mod), although it doesn't really matter with 6KRO over USB in practice.

If you want some actual use cases, here you go: stenography, local multiplayer on a single keyboard, piano simulators. I've done each of that over the years.

Riiight... so that's sub one percent of keyboard users? If you need it, good for you. The more power to all the stenographers out there, or people who want to play piano on a computer, instead of, you know, a piano. I'm not sure what "local multiplayer on a single keyboard" means though.

Actually, I wouldn't be so eager to claim that.

My dad returned a new ergonomic keyboard, because it generated ghosts instead of registering some keyboard shortcuts with embedded numpad, rendering it unusable with the DTP software he'd been using.
I played Frets on Fire a lot with friends in high school, and the game required chording typically several function keys like if they were frets on a guitar. The game was quite popular.
We played lots of multiplayer DOS games on a single keyboard e.g., at retro IT parties in college. Totally random.
I've seen questions about piano simulation many times on various tech support forums, usually asked by developers that needed to record only a couple of samples.
And so on and so on.

Arguably, there's a relatively big risk anyone can run into potentially ghosting/blocking situation on some unexpected occasion. Not a big deal in general, but still annoying… and absolutely unnecessary, because a technical solution has been around for ages.

My original point is that IMO, Cherry MX is a bit of a crappy feeling mechanism... it just feels too full of compromises without lots of modification effort. I know this is an unpopular opinion, which is why I posted it in the "unpopular keyboard opinions" thread.

That (a) isn't even an unpopular opinion around here, but (b) it's not like more than "sub one percent of keyboard users" actually cares.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 08 April 2015, 12:36:33
I actually quite enjoy the feel of the switches on the Razer Blackwidow 2014. I think it's a decent board, my brother has one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Wed, 08 April 2015, 16:31:01
I think ripster is a really cool guy. kills aleins and doesn't afraid of anything.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fullcream on Wed, 08 April 2015, 18:43:56
Caps lock is a useful function.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: IdentityNon on Wed, 08 April 2015, 19:24:59
Caps lock is a useful function.

AS somebody WHO sometimes LIKES to BE as OBNOXIOUS as POSSIBLE i AGREE!1
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rsac on Sun, 03 May 2015, 15:40:17
Caps lock seems a very popular topic here.

I still disagree that [caps lock] sucks. I'm one of the extreme minority of people that capitalize letters by double-tapping Caps lock. Is it inefficient and stupid? Perhaps, but I maintain about 95 WPM, so I don't really see the value in learning the "correct" way to apply Caps.
See:
By the way the typing champion Sean Wrona uses Caps Lock even to type 1 capital leter in a word! It's fascinating, but it's really faster for him to hit Caps Lock twice, than coordinating pushing 2 keys at the same time when he's flying at 200WPM.

https://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25711-proper-touch-typing&p=483599&viewfull=1#post483599 (https://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25711-proper-touch-typing&p=483599&viewfull=1#post483599)

You’d be much better off with a key to capitalize just the immediately following letter.

Or perhaps a key which acts like shift if you hold it down, but capitalizes just the next letter if you quickly press and release it.
I'm thinking in implementing a key like this.
Tap = Apply shift to the next key pressed
Hold = Normal shift
Double tap fast = Toggle caps lock (yeah, capslock is nice to have)

That way one could type faster and more confortably, eliminate one key from the keyboard and still use shift while in caplock mode.

AS somebody WHO sometimes LIKES to BE as OBNOXIOUS as POSSIBLE i AGREE!1
yOU cAn bE EvEn mOrE AnNoyIng w/O UsIng cAps LOck
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Sun, 03 May 2015, 15:45:09
I'm thinking in implementing a key like this.
Tap = Apply shift to the next key pressed
...
Double tap fast = Toggle caps lock (yeah, capslock is nice to have)
i'll see if i can create this using AutoHotkey
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Sun, 03 May 2015, 17:52:36
This might be easier than I thought..let's see.


...guess it's harder than I thought.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sun, 03 May 2015, 17:59:31
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 03 May 2015, 18:37:02
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

Need to get you some good dyesub then.  A lot of the stuff I see know is that way, but my typewriter stuff is crisp.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eszett on Sun, 03 May 2015, 19:37:40
my personal hatechart:
1. OS-specific keys have no right to be on a keyboard, especially those win keys
2. menu key, for existing
3. CapsLock, for existing
4. tabulator key, for sitting on a prominent place on the keyboard whilst beeing used rather low-frequently
5. ISO enter key, for it's an ugly monstrosity
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Sun, 03 May 2015, 19:37:45
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

Need to get you some good dyesub then.  A lot of the stuff I see know is that way, but my typewriter stuff is crisp.
I get the sense that dye sublimation is one of those things that's easy to do, but hard to do right. As opposed to doubleshot molding, which appears to just be hard to do.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 03 May 2015, 21:44:18
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 03 May 2015, 21:56:58
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

bro, they all feel the same. anybody says different they are liars or have sensitive fingers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 03 May 2015, 21:57:38
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.
Isn’t this just a fact about the market, rather than an opinion?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Sun, 03 May 2015, 22:11:30
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.

I'll go ahead and be unpopular with you. But I'll add a qualification that the Model F is in comparable condition to a new Topre. Dumpster boards with missing keys and dried-on boogers may be diamonds in the rough, but until they're restored it's only unrealized potential.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 04 May 2015, 00:34:45
I think the Model F is a much more repairable product than the Topre, though.

A Topre board has a relatively ordinary PCB, in a relatively ordinary case, and rubber domes doomed to wear out (that aren't really widely traded around).

In comparison, the most irreplacable part of a F is the PCB, which is securely protected by about seven kilos of steel, and the XTant people are working on that one.  The flippers and springs, caps, and even barrels can be scavenged, and most of them are getting controller swaps or converters anyway.

You can hoard and hold those dumpster Fs until they become worth using.  I can recall that 122Fs used to be useless-- no easy way to make them speak a normal protocol-- then Soarer happened and the whole economy reset.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 04 May 2015, 01:22:22
Keyboards that bent the plate as a case looks horrible to me.

I don't like skeleton style keyboard case.

I don't like Hyperfuse and Penumbra keyset. 

I think the Lily set is the best looking keyset so far.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 04 May 2015, 07:11:17

You can hoard and hold those dumpster Fs until they become worth using.  I can recall that 122Fs used to be useless


@jacobolus Isn’t this just a fact about the market, rather than an opinion? - for about a week there I could quote you

I was referring to the firestorm that ellipse received when he sold some of his jewels. F-122s are not rare, merely uncommon.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LouisHjelmslev on Mon, 04 May 2015, 10:20:59
-ISO is far superior to ANSI → since keyboard width is narrower than shoulder width, hands naturally angle inward, and the extra top space on ISO Enter comes in handy (have used both ISO and ANSI equally for the last decade)  :thumb:
-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D
-purely on form factor alone, M2's are superior to Model M's. F's are fine, because they're like that strange looking face you can't stop staring at.  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 04 May 2015, 10:45:35
-ISO is far superior to ANSI → since keyboard width is narrower than shoulder width, hands naturally angle inward, and the extra top space on ISO Enter comes in handy (have used both ISO and ANSI equally for the last decade)  :thumb:
-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D
-purely on form factor alone, M2's are superior to Model M's. F's are fine, because they're like that strange looking face you can't stop staring at.  :-*

Huh?  Are you serious?  I have the opposite opinion about ISO/ANSI.  I guess it's a matter of preference. 

If you are talking about form factor, I suppose that is why Unicomp made the Ultra Classic; instead of just producing M2 keyboards.  There is a difference.  I'd rather get the Classic. 

I have no idea what you are getting at about Model F keyboards. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Mon, 04 May 2015, 11:24:42

  • Full sized keyboards should all be made with the num pad arrow keys, and so on on the left hand side.


Like this?
(https://www.dsi-keyboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Screen-Shot-2015-02-19-at-11.53.06-AM.png)

Or this?
(https://www.dsi-keyboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/left1.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: greath on Mon, 04 May 2015, 11:34:30
The Miami set is hideous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Asininity on Mon, 04 May 2015, 14:40:19
Browns are the best switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 15:23:02

-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D


You numb :P pad lovers need to learn to type properly. It's much faster/efficient and more "ergo" to use the number row.
http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 15:28:43
...also caps lock hatred is just a fad....a silly little fad...
It's absolutely necessary for efficient typing and some software requires everything be done in caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 04 May 2015, 15:50:14
I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

I hate PBT dyesubs, they just look fuzzy

Need to get you some good dyesub then.  A lot of the stuff I see know is that way, but my typewriter stuff is crisp.
I get the sense that dye sublimation is one of those things that's easy to do, but hard to do right. As opposed to doubleshot molding, which appears to just be hard to do.

Dyesub is "just" diffusion, which is technically fairly easy to do.  One of the hard parts is to make sure that it doesn't also diffuse outward and make blurry legends.

(note: not a keycap dyesub expert)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Mon, 04 May 2015, 16:45:18

-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D


You numb :P pad lovers need to learn to type properly. It's much faster/efficient and more "ergo" to use the number row.
http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
How's that for an unpopular opinion?


The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.

And for you programmers:
(http://www.decodesystems.com/je600-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:03:21
vintage Browns are the best switches.
FTFY
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:04:24
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:16:10
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

i'm pretty sure this is *popular* opinion :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:30:35
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.


Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:41:41
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dubsgalore on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:43:09
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.


Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.

not a placebo
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 04 May 2015, 18:49:22
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

That's why I say old, well used Blacks are smooth, it has nothing to do with the "vintage" pedigree.  It's why well used Browns and Blues can be quite nice compared to new.  Even so, people argue that unused "vintage" blacks are super smooth.


Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))

Press them slowly or off center.  Mine all feel a little gritty, better than new Blacks, but worse than well used Blacks.  If you hit them perfectly straight, they do feel very smooth, but who has perfect up and down key strokes?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:07:59
The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.
Having a numpad in a little square is stupid. It should be something like:
(http://i.imgur.com/ofeQEC9.png)

(Don’t worry too much about the precise shape here, just the general idea.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:22:28
The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.
Having a numpad in a little square is stupid. It should be something like:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ofeQEC9.png)


(Don�t worry too much about the precise shape here, just the general idea.)

That is quite a trip. I like it. :) Though having a number like 7 under the middle finger seems kind of a waste. Perhaps having 9 and 0 on the thumb would be better, and having it split like 1234/5678/90 (with 7 under a wimpy ring finger) would be best.

Or you could order the numbers like Dvorak (ignore the staggered rows)...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/KB_DSKtypewriter.svg/900px-KB_DSKtypewriter.svg.png)

7 is off in Siberia, where it belongs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:34:30
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

That's why I say old, well used Blacks are smooth, it has nothing to do with the "vintage" pedigree.  It's why well used Browns and Blues can be quite nice compared to new.  Even so, people argue that unused "vintage" blacks are super smooth.
Do people argue that? I just see people talking about vintage switches in reference to older, very used switches. Only time I hear about a different material is with blues.

Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))

Press them slowly or off center.  Mine all feel a little gritty, better than new Blacks, but worse than well used Blacks.  If you hit them perfectly straight, they do feel very smooth, but who has perfect up and down key strokes?
well, off center hits are gonna be pressing the stem closer to the housing, so I'm not surprised it's a little less smooth. Though in regular typing I don't really hit off center enough to notice it
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:57:30
(http://i.imgur.com/ofeQEC9.png)

That is quite a trip. I like it. :) Though having a number like 7 under the middle finger seems kind of a waste. Perhaps having 9 and 0 on the thumb would be better, and having it split like 1234/5678/90 (with 7 under a wimpy ring finger) would be best.
The idea is to split up the low numbers 0–4, which should be most common, across the “home” position for the five fingers on the right hand, putting 0, 1, and 2 on the strongest fingers.

Then the next 5 digits are split up on the below-home-position keys for each finger. (Not exactly below for the thumb, but you get the idea...)

The overall idea is sorta similar to the Dvorak image you showed, except that in the Dvorak versions all the numbers are on the ****ty hard to reach top row. If you wanted the numbers could be split across the two hands, but I think there are some advantages to having them all on one hand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 20:01:57
Do people argue that? I just see people talking about vintage switches in reference to older, very used switches. Only time I hear about a different material is with blues.
Yes, if you find mint condition MX black switches from circa 1990, and mint condition MX black switches from 2015, there is an obvious difference between the smoothness of the two. The “vintage” MX switches still aren’t as nice as white space invaders, green Alps, or red Matias switches (among others), but they’re dramatically nicer than modern linear MX switches.

Wear may also affect the switches, but this effect is entirely independent of wear, and is probably about some combination of tooling changes, wear on the tooling, or changes in production process.

Anyway, it’s really not worth arguing about. MX switches and MX clones are crappy switches even at their best, and take ridiculous amounts of modding work to turn into something pleasant. We should all just collectively move on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:02:19
Exceedingly rare IBM Model F variants are worth several times the price of new Topre keyboards.

Agree. How many known F77s are floating about? Less than ten? They're rarer than Kishsavers.0

-ISO is far superior to ANSI → since keyboard width is narrower than shoulder width, hands naturally angle inward, and the extra top space on ISO Enter comes in handy (have used both ISO and ANSI equally for the last decade)  :thumb:
-if you prefer tenkeyless to full, you need more math in your life  :D
-purely on form factor alone, M2's are superior to Model M's. F's are fine, because they're like that strange looking face you can't stop staring at.  :-*

Are you smoking crack? I have large hands; I can hit ANSI enter without moving my fingers from the home postion. I can't hit any part of ISO enter without moving my entire hand. :P

Agreed on second point. Gimme mah numbarz

Fs have some weird form factors. Like the one I'm using where I had to make my keyboard tray wider to still fit a mouse on there. XD

Keyboards that bent the plate as a case looks horrible to me.

I don't like Hyperfuse and Penumbra keyset. 

Agreed on bent plate.

Hyperfuse is great in theory but the sets I've seen photos of were incredibly meh. :< Penumbra is ugly.


You numb :P pad lovers need to learn to type properly. It's much faster/efficient and more "ergo" to use the number row.
http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
How's that for an unpopular opinion?

Given the difficulty of reaching the number row, it's pretty unpopular with me. Number row requires reaching or repositioning anyway and the use of both hands. Numpad just requires moving one hand a bit to the right, where it can easily operate by itself quickly and efficiently. As a bonus on QWERTY, if you need to put in Hex, A-F are all on the left hand that's still over on the main section. Embeded numbers on an actually ergo board or a matrix board would be even better from the standpoint of people who don't want their hands to move ever, but between number row and numberpad, giving a less-used hand something to do that it can do quickly and efficiently by itself beats reaching and overworking my left hand even more. It takes me almost no more time to move my hand to the numpad than it does to move to hit the number row, so bah to the number row.

The number pad on computer keyboards is upside down. It should go in the same order as a telephone.

And for you programmers:
Show Image
(http://www.decodesystems.com/je600-3.jpg)


Telephones are upside down. The progression from 0 at the bottom to 9 at the top makes perfect sense and puts 1 and 0 next to each other. It's a holdover from calculators and one of the very few sensible things on keyboards. ;)

The Miami set is hideous.

Preach it, brother. The teal is nice, but that hot pink, oof.

Having a numpad in a little square is stupid. It should be something like:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ofeQEC9.png)


(Don�t worry too much about the precise shape here, just the general idea.)

I prefer a separate numpad, but between this and the number row, this is much better by far.

Anyway, it�s really not worth arguing about. MX switches and MX clones are crappy switches even at their best, and take ridiculous amounts of modding work to turn into something pleasant. We should all just collectively move on.

I kind of like stock clears and blue/greens, but given the number of other switches that feel much better(Most Alps/Matias, buckling spring, random old switches like marquadt butterfly), I have to kind of agree. The only downside is of course keycap sets. (Which has been solved on Topre now. Alps... Exists but is imperfect and apparently breaks off in key stems easily, and buckling spring isn't AFAIK even being looked at, though curved plates would make that odd for anything but DSA/Row 3 SA anyway.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:23:58
I understand that using the number row is very unpopular, but to say that it's harder to reach or inefficient in comparison is just "rationalization" at it's finest. Your hands don't even leave the home row if you use the number row. Try it sometime, really try it for a few days or weeks, and see how you like it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:35:34
Your hands don't even leave the home row if you use the number row. Try it sometime, really try it for a few days or weeks, and see how you like it.

I'm not going to blow your theory off and not try it, but I have to ask a few questions first.

What home row are you talking about?  The number row (and calling it the home row)?  That's perfectly fine, I know this seems snarky, that's not the intent.  Just want to understand that it's a "new" home row while typing numbers.

Are you just typing a string of numbers with no other modifier use?  Using the numpad makes it exceptionally easy to enter data into excel, with easy access to tab, shift, enter, and the numbers (including '.').  How does using the number row help here?  This is by far the most common use of the numpad for myself and probably many others that do use the numpad regularly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:41:18
The home row is asdfghjkl; The goal of efficient typing is to try to not move your hands, only your fingers, from the home row. I use modifiers all of the time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:42:20
Usually though, if you are inputting large amounts of numbers that you need to use the numpad for, they aren't interspersed with letters, so it makes sense you using the numpad. It's close to the arrows and your mouse, you don't need letters with numbers :)

I agree with the 1 next to 0 as well. The numpad is perfectly laid out for sums :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:45:20
Do they teach you to use the numpad instead of the number row in school now? It seems like since the early 2000's everyone started using the numpad as the standard method.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:48:03
Usually though, if you are inputting large amounts of numbers that you need to use the numpad for, they aren't interspersed with letters, so it makes sense you using the numpad. It's close to the arrows and your mouse, you don't need letters with numbers :)

I agree with the 1 next to 0 as well. The numpad is perfectly laid out for sums :)

I can't argue with that really. I'm not an accountant or secretary though.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 21:59:58
I'm 31. I started typing on boards that didn't have number pads, on Apple IIe/IIc computers in grade school. So I started without them. Used a laptop that for gods know what reason didn't have an embedded number pad exclusively for a few weeks a couple years back when I had nothing else. I hated it. :P

I'll use the number row once in a while for inserting a single one or two digit number, like say 7 or 39, in the middle of text. Three digits is middling, anything more and I'm definitely over on the number pad. Also alt codes of course can't be done with the number row and I use those a fair bit as well. ♪

I can touch type the number row, I just find the number pad infinitely faster and better for anything where I'm actually working with numbers. Or phone numbers or credit card numbers or anything like that. I've worked in call centers before and you end up with number pads with wear in addition to the spacebars and common letters, rofl.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:04:29
Well, you know I'm not completely insane then. ;) Most people think I am for not using a numpad (even when I can), and I get it.

I've seen those battle scarred keyboards too...the poor little bastards...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eszett on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:39:18
Quite alot people here said, that numpad would be better positioned on the left side of the keyboard. I understand this, because by this, the right hand can rest on the mouse while the left hand is navigating with the arrows. But what about the arrow keys on a TKL, noone spoke about them? They should be on the left side too, for the same reason, right?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:40:55
I understand that using the number row is very unpopular, but to say that it's harder to reach or inefficient in comparison is just "rationalization" at it's finest. Your hands don't even leave the home row if you use the number row. Try it sometime, really try it for a few days or weeks, and see how you like it.
Huh? I have 15+ years experience touch typing numbers on the number row, and I use the number row constantly while using standard keyboards..... but it sucks, every time. It requires moving the hands off the home row or twisting the wrist, typing more than 2-3 digits at a time is ridiculously slow and error prone – compared to numbers on a layer closer to the home row or compared to a separate numpad – and some of the numbers (especially 1, 6, and 7) are in very awkward positions. Typing a single digit is fine, but text with shifted-number symbols and frequent multi-digit numbers (not to mention writing mathematical formulae or transcribing numbers from forms, etc.) is a huge pain.

You should try putting numbers and symbols on a layer triggered by a fn key. It’s night-and-day better.

Similarly, everyone should move the arrows onto a shifted layer instead of using separate arrow keys, get a split spacebar to put the delete key on, stop using ctrl keys in the corners of the keyboard, etc.

Having all the functions of the keyboard with 40–60 keys in a compact reachable space, ideally with 3–6 keys easily reachable by each thumb, and using layers liberally is dramatically more efficient than using a keyboard with 80–120 keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:46:40
The home row is asdfghjkl; The goal of efficient typing is to try to not move your hands, only your fingers, from the home row. I use modifiers all of the time.

Okay, so we're on the same page with home row (or rather, I'm unconfused in that regard :P ).  But what?  If I'm going to input a whole bunch of data using the number row, I am definitely going to move my hands up to reach the number row better.  And then the reach to Enter is awkward.  I'm really not following how using the number row is supposed to be better.  Like I said, I'm interested in learning if you truly do have some nuggets of wisdom, but you're going to need to offer up some additional info here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:52:16
Also, if you put in IP addresses, the full stop is even further away from the numbers than enter is. Having to press shift to gain access to the functions like equals and multiply is really counter productive as well.

I think the ability to memorise the distance between the numbers and not looking at the number row is a lot harder than learning the numpad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Mon, 04 May 2015, 22:55:31
I understand that using the number row is very unpopular, but to say that it's harder to reach or inefficient in comparison is just "rationalization" at it's finest. Your hands don't even leave the home row if you use the number row. Try it sometime, really try it for a few days or weeks, and see how you like it.
Huh? I have 15+ years experience touch typing numbers on the number row, and I use the number row constantly while using standard keyboards..... but it sucks, every time. It requires moving the hands off the home row or twisting the wrist, typing more than 2-3 digits at a time is ridiculously slow and error prone � compared to numbers on a layer closer to the home row or compared to a separate numpad � and some of the numbers (especially 1, 6, and 7) are in very awkward positions. Typing a single digit is fine, but text with shifted-number symbols and frequent multi-digit numbers (not to mention writing mathematical formulae or transcribing numbers from forms, etc.) is a huge pain.

You should try putting numbers and symbols on a layer triggered by a fn key. It�s night-and-day better.

Similarly, everyone should move the arrows onto a shifted layer instead of using separate arrow keys, get a split spacebar to put the delete key on, stop using ctrl keys in the corners of the keyboard, etc.

Having all the functions of the keyboard with 40�60 keys in a compact reachable space, ideally with 3�6 keys easily reachable by each thumb, and using layers liberally is dramatically more efficient than using a keyboard with 80�120 keys.

Huh? You just described my experience on the numpad. Error prone and awkward.

I program, fill in IP routing tables, and all kinds other stuff involving numbers and I'm perfectly comfortable and proficient with the number row. It's just a matter of personal preference. If you want to give it a shot this typing tutor really makes it easy to learn (more than the number row): http://www.typing-lessons.org/preliminaries_1.html
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 05 May 2015, 00:26:50
Huh? You just described my experience on the numpad. Error prone and awkward.
I promise you, that’s just lack of practice. For someone with equal amounts of practice on both, the numpad wins every time, hands down. (At least as long as all the input is numeric rather than a mix of numbers and words.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Asininity on Tue, 05 May 2015, 01:40:08
vintage Browns are the best switches.
FTFY

You mean Gaterons don't you?

Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Gateron blacks are the best **** out there.

I think my new found love for Gaterons might be a unpopular opinion in itself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Tue, 05 May 2015, 09:44:10
I think tenkeyless is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 05 May 2015, 09:56:04
I think tenkeyless is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D

 :eek:

you just win this thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bucake on Tue, 05 May 2015, 10:48:38
I think tenkeyless is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D

i don't see how that can even be an actual opinion:
maybe you would never need it, but there are plenty of people who can really use the extra space that you win from removing the numpad.
many, many people never ever use the numpad. so you might as well have the opinion that full-sized is the most pointless form factor ever devised. obviously that would not be true either.
it's like saying a 4+ people car is pointless only because you don't have a family.
it's like saying noise-cancelling phones are pointless because you live in a very quiet environment.
i understand you might not benefit from the size of TKL, but it's ridiculous to say it's pointless.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 05 May 2015, 10:58:23
^this is why that post wins the thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 05 May 2015, 11:15:13
I think tenkeyless is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D

i don't see how that can even be an actual opinion:
maybe you would never need it, but there are plenty of people who can really use the extra space that you win from removing the numpad.
many, many people never ever use the numpad. so you might as well have the opinion that full-sized is the most pointless form factor ever devised. obviously that would not be true either.
it's like saying a 4+ people car is pointless only because you don't have a family.
it's like saying noise-cancelling phones are pointless because you live in a very quiet environment.
i understand you might not benefit from the size of TKL, but it's ridiculous to say it's pointless.

It's an opinion for his use.  He's not saying the form factor shouldn't exist, because obviously it should (people buy it because people like it).  But in his opinion it's dumb and worthless.  :P

For the record, I do not agree with this opinion.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: greath on Tue, 05 May 2015, 11:16:19
I think tenkeyless is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D

i don't see how that can even be an actual opinion:
maybe you would never need it, but there are plenty of people who can really use the extra space that you win from removing the numpad.
many, many people never ever use the numpad. so you might as well have the opinion that full-sized is the most pointless form factor ever devised. obviously that would not be true either.
it's like saying a 4+ people car is pointless only because you don't have a family.
it's like saying noise-cancelling phones are pointless because you live in a very quiet environment.
i understand you might not benefit from the size of TKL, but it's ridiculous to say it's pointless.

Thought I personally love TKL, I can understand the viewpoint I think. In a world where we have fullsize and HappyHacker/60%, TKL probably isn't needed by most people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Herothereu on Tue, 05 May 2015, 11:57:51
I think 60% is the most pointless form factor ever devised. :D

FTFY
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Tue, 05 May 2015, 12:03:58
DSA profile is the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my life. Not keycap profile, thing.


DSA keycaps are absolutely necessary!
(http://files.itproportal.com/wp-content/uploads/photos/maltron90-1_originalwm1.jpg)
Well, for some keyboards.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Tue, 05 May 2015, 13:05:58
i don't see how that can even be an actual opinion:
maybe you would never need it, but there are plenty of people who can really use the extra space that you win from removing the numpad.
many, many people never ever use the numpad. so you might as well have the opinion that full-sized is the most pointless form factor ever devised. obviously that would not be true either.
it's like saying a 4+ people car is pointless only because you don't have a family.
it's like saying noise-cancelling phones are pointless because you live in a very quiet environment.
i understand you might not benefit from the size of TKL, but it's ridiculous to say it's pointless.

Wow! It seems I did win. People have been flaming away at HHKBs, much-loved brands and community obsessions, and yet never got a single retort.

You don't understand my point. TKL is pointless not because it removes something, it is pointless because it removes the wrong thing. ;) Look at the arrow key cluster. It's 3 full keys wide, and is full of keys I don't remember the last time I ever used. (The ones I do use, like Home, End or Delete, are too far away, and you need to move your wrist - having them on an Fn layer would be a lot more productive.) It also has a lot of empty space.

So what if you removed this, and left the numpad there? You'd get ALL THIS, plus a numpad instead of all the empty space, "Scroll lock" and "Pause/Break" (what does that even DO?)

TKL is pointless because on a numpad you have THE SAME THING (arrows, navigation, ins del), on top of the numbers themselves, in the same desk real estate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 05 May 2015, 13:30:33
You don't have an inverted-T arrow cluster in the tenkey.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 05 May 2015, 13:33:12
You don't have an inverted-T arrow cluster in the tenkey.

this could be implemented, some CM storms do this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Tue, 05 May 2015, 13:39:18
You don't have an inverted-T arrow cluster in the tenkey.

Hm. I never even considered the inverted-T as an advantage compared to the plus-shaped arrow cluster on the numpad.

I guess on a programmable board you could make 5 a down arrow. (Having a hardware implemented numlock would be necessary anyway, for OSX.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Tue, 05 May 2015, 14:03:37
I'm going to join the TKL hate. Want more space? Get a 60%. When was the last time you really used scroll lock or pause/break? Does Pause/Break even DO anything?

TK makes infinitely more sense than TKL to me. And retains a numberpad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 05 May 2015, 14:15:56
I'm going to join the TKL hate. Want more space? Get a 60%. When was the last time you really used scroll lock or pause/break? Does Pause/Break even DO anything?

TK makes infinitely more sense than TKL to me. And retains a numberpad.

Home, Del, End, Pg[UpDn] and arrow keys are useful rather than having to use a button to activate a second layer when you are working with a GUI. but yes, for linux and command-line, 60% is king. unfortunately most people are forced to use winblows at work and it can get quite annoying doing certain tasks without those keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Tue, 05 May 2015, 15:10:12
Cherry switches are actually pretty bad. Same goes for Topre.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: unoab on Tue, 05 May 2015, 16:13:41
You don't have an inverted-T arrow cluster in the tenkey.

Hm. I never even considered the inverted-T as an advantage compared to the plus-shaped arrow cluster on the numpad.

I guess on a programmable board you could make 5 a down arrow. (Having a hardware implemented numlock would be necessary anyway, for OSX.)

it doesn't even have to be that high up in the tenkey, you could do something like I have on my phantom where fn2 toggles the 2nd function layer that just switches between an arrow cluster or numpad (oh, and I always have numlock enabled so the numpad is just strictly numbers):
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb385/unoab/keyboards/phantom_numpad.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 05 May 2015, 16:31:18
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))

yeah but buying them NOS, changing the spring and then preaching about how great the "vintage" switch is, is crap and just sheep repeating what they read.

a lot of people believe because it's old it's the same thing, and it's not. but nobody ever listens to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Tue, 05 May 2015, 16:43:53
Blacks are ****, vintage blacks are the ****.

Vintage Blacks are a placebo.

years of friction wear down the stems

Also, Gaterons are not as smooth as people claim.
:))

yeah but buying them NOS, changing the spring and then preaching about how great the "vintage" switch is, is crap and just sheep repeating what they read.

a lot of people believe because it's old it's the same thing, and it's not. but nobody ever listens to me.
I personally haven't done anything to my vintage blacks yet, I have only typed on the board they came on, and now I have started desoldering them. I know mine are so smooth because of years of wear, as with any other switch that is old.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Tue, 05 May 2015, 17:37:53
I've got one. Spacebars, as currently implemented, are stupid beyond belief and need to die in a fire. 6.25 is bad, 7 even moreso, 6 is still ridiculous. There's a massive, massive amount of thumb space that could be used for useful things like shift or enter or backspace or other actually useful things instead of killing your pinkies using them while exactly one of your thumbs does anything at all, and generally does it in a space less than 3u wide. The shiny spot on the ABS spacebar I have on a board is less than 2u, actually, right below v and b.

The right hand bottom mods are pointless and something more useful should be put there. Right shift is also pointless for me, but I realize some people use it, but it really does not need to be that big.

Here, have this: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/dbd75b62a6807de3d92801452e5c976c

Flip the Fn-ness of the arrows and nav keys if you like. Yes, yes, I'm the only one who uses the spacebar left handed, swap that and backspace if you want. I know there's redundant keys on this, I'm lazy at the moment. I still don't really advocate this because row staggering like a typewriter is stupid, but at least it does something slight less dumb with the bottom row than using most of it for one giant key. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rsac on Tue, 05 May 2015, 21:09:14
Making a chorus with Nai_Calus: there is no point in making custom keyboards with custom PCBs and key plates and not using the oportunity to at least split the spacebar.

Keeping the typewriter staggering at least has the argument of muscle memory, but if you will already overwrite part of your muscle memory with layers in a 40~70% board, then why not go all the way?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LouisHjelmslev on Wed, 06 May 2015, 01:16:15
After reading a few replies here, I say kudos to limitz for the post.  :thumb:
By essentially prefacing all opinions as 'unpopular', people are actually productively discussing personal keyboard preferences! Unpopular puffin to the rescue!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bucake on Wed, 06 May 2015, 15:48:37
i don't see how that can even be an actual opinion:
maybe you would never need it, but there are plenty of people who can really use the extra space that you win from removing the numpad.
many, many people never ever use the numpad. so you might as well have the opinion that full-sized is the most pointless form factor ever devised. obviously that would not be true either.
it's like saying a 4+ people car is pointless only because you don't have a family.
it's like saying noise-cancelling phones are pointless because you live in a very quiet environment.
i understand you might not benefit from the size of TKL, but it's ridiculous to say it's pointless.

Wow! It seems I did win. People have been flaming away at HHKBs, much-loved brands and community obsessions, and yet never got a single retort.

You don't understand my point. TKL is pointless not because it removes something, it is pointless because it removes the wrong thing. ;) Look at the arrow key cluster. It's 3 full keys wide, and is full of keys I don't remember the last time I ever used. (The ones I do use, like Home, End or Delete, are too far away, and you need to move your wrist - having them on an Fn layer would be a lot more productive.) It also has a lot of empty space.

So what if you removed this, and left the numpad there? You'd get ALL THIS, plus a numpad instead of all the empty space, "Scroll lock" and "Pause/Break" (what does that even DO?)

TKL is pointless because on a numpad you have THE SAME THING (arrows, navigation, ins del), on top of the numbers themselves, in the same desk real estate.

you have a point, especially since TKL indeed has that unused space.
personally i use home, del and home alot. as well as arrow keys. i know a numpad has these keys, but since i've used the standard layout for about 20 years, i don't feel like changing the layout (tenkey vs tenkeyless).
i would not mind, at all, to adapt to someting new, but since i would only use home, del, end and the arrow keys of the numpad, there would really not be a point for me to change to a tenkey layout.

i guess i agree with you in the way that i think that TenKey makes more sense (less/no unused space, more keys).
personally, i'm sticking to TKL because the extra keys on a TenKey would not get any usage anyway, plus i'm used to TKL/full-sized layout.


as for the argument that there is 60%, well, i use my arrow keys a ton, as well as home, del and end.
not many, if any, 60% boards have these keys dedicated. i have, and love, 60% boards, but i always miss those dedicated keys while i am using that form factor.
i guess something like the hhkb with hasu's controller would be perfect for me, when it comes to layout. unfortunately i'll need to teach myself to build firmware first.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: steve.v on Wed, 06 May 2015, 21:58:13
1. Dislike boards greater than 60%. I don't understand why people would need so many keys to be productive. I can access everything in the letter columns via programmable; heck my space bar acts as a super key.

2. Dislike Cherry MX keys; too plastic feeling and cheap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 07 May 2015, 03:06:55
I can't feel the difference between lubed MX black and stock MX black, unless they are lubed with super thick lube.

Now a really unpopular one... I like new MX brown
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 07 May 2015, 11:04:29
I can't feel the difference between lubed MX black and stock MX black, unless they are lubed with super thick lube.

Now a really unpopular one... I like new MX brown

You monster!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chive_ on Thu, 07 May 2015, 13:42:09
40% keyboards might look cool, but their functionality is far too limited making them useless.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Thu, 07 May 2015, 13:49:55
40% keyboards might look cool, but their functionality is far too limited making them useless.

not unpopular, more like... people too afraid to say it haha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 07 May 2015, 13:53:18
40% keyboards might look cool, but their functionality is far too limited making them useless.
Intended?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bludude4 on Thu, 07 May 2015, 13:55:45
SA is underrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Thu, 07 May 2015, 14:03:52
55g topre is horrible

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 07 May 2015, 14:09:44
I can't feel the difference between lubed MX black and stock MX black, unless they are lubed with super thick lube.

Now a really unpopular one... I like new MX brown

You monster!

  :))  everyone should enjoy that crispy feeling
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 07 May 2015, 14:53:01
SA is underrated.

Nothing unpopular about that.  There's an SA circlejerk right now.  I think it's way overrated.


55g topre is horrible



I can't stand Topre outside of the HHKB.  Realforce, FC660C, and Novatouch were all miserable to me.

I can't feel the difference between lubed MX black and stock MX black, unless they are lubed with super thick lube.

Now a really unpopular one... I like new MX brown

You monster!

  :))  everyone should enjoy that crispy crunchy feeling

There you go   ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: noons on Thu, 07 May 2015, 15:47:44
I dislike cherry mx blue's.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 07 May 2015, 16:22:00
I dislike cherry mx blue's.
Have to agree. I'm mostly wearing headphones when in front of the computer which dampens the click a lot and then I realized that they don't feel a lot different than Browns.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BrewCaps on Thu, 07 May 2015, 18:57:59
Pok3r is all hype.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:02:49
Pok3r is all hype.

I've never liked the Poker 2 really anyway...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:04:49
Pok3r is all hype.

I've never liked the Poker 2 really anyway...
How does this relate to the Pok3r since it aims to improve some weak points of the Poker II?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:08:23
Pok3r is all hype.

I've never liked the Poker 2 really anyway...
How does this relate to the Pok3r since it aims to improve some weak points of the Poker II?

No idea.

(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/keychatter_2015-03-21_21-25-53-679x350.jpg)

(http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/images/products/large_458_sdc12627.jpg)

They look completely different.

And the names aren't similar either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:15:00
Pok3r is all hype.

I've never liked the Poker 2 really anyway...
How does this relate to the Pok3r since it aims to improve some weak points of the Poker II?

No idea.

Show Image
(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/keychatter_2015-03-21_21-25-53-679x350.jpg)


Show Image
(http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/images/products/large_458_sdc12627.jpg)


They look completely different.

And the names aren't similar either.
I get what you mean. I originally was thinking more about internal features.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:17:12
I never bought one, they just never appealed to me. I like my V60, and I didn't know what was so special about the Poker2. I guess I chose a 75% over a Poker initially and never went back to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Magna224 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 05:19:09
MX blues suck. That's my unpopular opinion. A two piece stem is a terrible idea and that jig feels awful. Its the worst switch I have ever felt. Id rather use a rubber dome if the keyboard was built as well. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Fri, 08 May 2015, 07:39:10
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 08 May 2015, 07:58:06
99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

tufty laying down the law.   :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:16:09
99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.
tufty laying down the law.   :(
No, stating an (unpopular) opinion, and those are like arseholes - everyone has one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:28:59
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.
well, you certainly feel strongly.


BTW tons of people don't like artisans here, it's been said so many times it's not even unpopular. And you may not like it, but that's just how much it costs to manufacture keysets.

99% of the people on this board have different opinions ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:32:44
99% of the people on this board have different opinions ;)

Not me!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:32:45
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

(http://i.imgur.com/3vZ9T9z.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:35:07
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

You know, I can agree with all of these to some varying degree.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:35:23
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3vZ9T9z.png)

(http://new2.fjcdn.com/comments/5450088+_d19340d87a93f2d7d1fb7bb9d2293e08.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:38:02
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3vZ9T9z.png)

Show Image
(http://new2.fjcdn.com/comments/5450088+_d19340d87a93f2d7d1fb7bb9d2293e08.jpg)


(http://i.imgur.com/TWaAsAO.jpg)

More

(http://archive.4plebs.org/boards/tv/image/1401/55/1401550416509.jpg)



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:49:27
99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

tufty laying down the law.   :(

The hate is strong in that one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:54:24
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.
(http://i.imgur.com/kTu1a5D.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: greath on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:56:36
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

(http://i.imgur.com/IWFnNPg.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 08:58:48
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kTu1a5D.jpg)


(http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tv/image/1412/10/1412105762179.png)

More

(http://intfolder.com/_ph/2/2/296647629.jpg)


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 08 May 2015, 09:28:29

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kTu1a5D.jpg)


When I was a kid, mom used to buy these "Frog and Toad" children's books which was basically the spiel about friendship and keeping your word. I ****ing loved those books.

This looks exactly like Frog, the art style is the same and everything. Thanks for stabbing my childhood.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: greath on Fri, 08 May 2015, 10:04:56

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kTu1a5D.jpg)


When I was a kid, mom used to buy these "Frog and Toad" children's books which was basically the spiel about friendship and keeping your word. I ****ing loved those books.

This looks exactly like Frog, the art style is the same and everything. Thanks for stabbing my childhood.  :p

(http://i.imgur.com/D9CwhJR.jpg)

These ones? I had those.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 08 May 2015, 10:11:32

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/D9CwhJR.jpg)


These ones? I had those.

Yep. I'm 25 and I still love to pick up those books and read them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Fri, 08 May 2015, 10:35:21
Am I missing something? What is the deal with these suicidal frogs?!  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bucake on Fri, 08 May 2015, 11:05:20

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/D9CwhJR.jpg)


These ones? I had those.

Yep. I'm 25 and I still love to pick up those books and read them.

i remember seing an animated series or movie of frog and toad, good nostalgia
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 08 May 2015, 11:10:03
Am I missing something? What is the deal with these suicidal frogs?!  :))

They are a lot like 90s Saturday morning cartoons, or buckling springs. Lasting value and quality, hallmarks of an older time.  :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 08 May 2015, 12:13:44
Cherry switches produced post 1992 are cheap, disposable ****.

TKL and especially 60% etc is a fad for morons.

Anybody who designs their own custom keyboard and sticks to qwerty / staggered layout, regardless of %, is a ****ing moron.

Artisan keycaps are not art.  They are turds with cherry switch adaptors.

It is said that a fool and his money are soon parted.  This explains the price of custom keysets, and the drooling spastics who'll climb over each other to have one.

99% of people on this board are ****ing idiots.

Cursing doesn't make it an unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 12:47:29
Am I missing something? What is the deal with these suicidal frogs?!  :))
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/550850543854166018/fQwnsm7O.jpeg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Fri, 08 May 2015, 12:53:35
And you may not like it, but that's just how much it costs to manufacture keysets.
The chairman of Signature Plastics, yesterday
(http://lineoftheweek.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/moneysex.jpg)

The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 08 May 2015, 12:56:43
good thing you're part of the superior 1%  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 08 May 2015, 13:02:18
And you may not like it, but that's just how much it costs to manufacture keysets.
The chairman of Signature Plastics, yesterday
Show Image
(http://lineoftheweek.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/moneysex.jpg)


I don't think you're very familiar with manufacturing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 May 2015, 13:09:40
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 08 May 2015, 13:09:55
And you may not like it, but that's just how much it costs to manufacture keysets.
The chairman of Signature Plastics, yesterday
Show Image
(http://lineoftheweek.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/moneysex.jpg)


I don't think you're very familiar with manufacturing.

You don't get it Hoff.  Murican products should cost the same as Chinese and 3rd or developing world products.  That's just Idon'tbuyintoglobaleconomics 101.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:04:58
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

As for "you don't understand how manufacturing works", actually, I do.  The cost of producing a keyset is in the moulds, and they cost big money.  However, that cost is amortised over the number of keysets you make with those moulds.  So while, for example, the tooling for a DCS doubleshot ABS set costs a helluva lot upfront, but it's the same tooling for black, white, pink, or any other colour you want to specify.  Once you get to producing the type of quantities of product that mean you can invest in tooling, the amortised tooling cost is massively outweighed by the material and handling costs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:14:47

If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

Who took the jam out of your donut?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:19:26
oh oh.

(http://www.og-locs.com/3f35_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sorijealut on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:23:10
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.
How about instead of so many ****s we say ducks?

(https://www.googledrive.com/host/0B4iOzj12oakSUXlBVHdEQ1k2QmM)
They're cute and wonderfully yellow
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:26:29
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.
Good to know.

I can't believe you haven't realised that all the frog pictures were just a joke. I do not feel bad/suicidal/unhappy because of what you said. Your failure to realise this makes you seem like quite the ****ing idiot.

Also, you say **** quite a lot. Is your vocabulary so limited that you have to resort to using swear words twice in one sentence in order to get your point across?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:27:52
As for "you don't understand how manufacturing works", actually, I do.  The cost of producing a keyset is in the moulds, and they cost big money.  However, that cost is amortised over the number of keysets you make with those moulds.  So while, for example, the tooling for a DCS doubleshot ABS set costs a helluva lot upfront, but it's the same tooling for black, white, pink, or any other colour you want to specify.  Once you get to producing the type of quantities of product that mean you can invest in tooling, the amortised tooling cost is massively outweighed by the material and handling costs.

Molds, materials, operators, and everyone else needed to run the place.  Plus safety precautions and all the other overhead costs that don't directly contribute to material production.  Plus overruns, defective product, equipment breakdowns, setup/changeover waste, and everything else.

It's not just (molds / # of caps) + materials
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:30:06
(https://cmgpbppalmbeachhealthbeat.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/spilled-salt1.jpg)
It's palpable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 08 May 2015, 15:30:56
Who didn't pull out of tufty's *******? God damn so butt hurt.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 08 May 2015, 16:39:35
Let's get back on track here, guys.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eszett on Fri, 08 May 2015, 16:42:49
Am I missing something? What is the deal with these suicidal frogs?!  :))
Tufty insulted the whole forum as beeing full of "****ing idiots". The community reacted with those frog pictures, as symbolic message which can be translated with: Oh, you are so mean to us, I have to shoot myself because I'm so affected / depressed by this. Ironically of course.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 May 2015, 16:54:09
Let's get back on track here, guys.
He didn't put the caps on his piss bottles? Unbelievable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lookitdisnub on Fri, 08 May 2015, 16:59:57
That could just be water that's yellowed from the cigarette butts
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 17:08:10
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

As for "you don't understand how manufacturing works", actually, I do. 

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/711/1380697092809.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Fri, 08 May 2015, 17:10:55
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

As for "you don't understand how manufacturing works", actually, I do. 

Show Image
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/711/1380697092809.jpg)

(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Terminator-Smile.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 17:19:35
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

As for "you don't understand how manufacturing works", actually, I do. 

Show Image
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/711/1380697092809.jpg)

Show Image
(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Terminator-Smile.gif)


(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/gary-oldman-smiles.gif)

Fast facts ~ Leon: The Professional is one of my favorite movies. Gary Oldman and Natalie Portman are love in this movie.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 May 2015, 18:26:38
That could just be water that's yellowed from the cigarette butts
If there's one thing I know it's piss bottles. Those are definitely piss bottles not yellowed water.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 18:29:30
That could just be water that's yellowed from the cigarette butts
If there's one thing I know it's piss bottles. Those are definitely piss bottles not yellowed water.

Could be worse...

More
(http://i.imgur.com/MVcabNR.jpg)


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Fri, 08 May 2015, 18:45:02
Unpopular opinion - bottles of various bodily fluids don't belong on keyboard forums.

But then again, I'm new here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 18:48:05
Unpopular opinion - bottles of various bodily fluids don't belong on keyboard forums.

But then again, I'm new here.

You're right.

(https://38.media.tumblr.com/8c444bbb741f9616ef16ee70b59d1a0e/tumblr_inline_n2c199Qigy1s7gk8i.gif)


Unpopular keyboard opinions - I like the feeling of shiny ABS keycaps. I don't prefer it, but I like it.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sorijealut on Fri, 08 May 2015, 18:56:57
Just came into the thread after dinner. What a mistake  :p

Unpopular opinion of the day - I may not like scooped F & J when I get my first GMK set.

My current keyboard doesn't have any nub or scoop O.O
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Fri, 08 May 2015, 19:08:35
Unpopular opinion - bottles of various bodily fluids don't belong on keyboard forums.

But then again, I'm new here.

You're right.

Show Image
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/8c444bbb741f9616ef16ee70b59d1a0e/tumblr_inline_n2c199Qigy1s7gk8i.gif)



Unpopular keyboard opinions - I like the feeling of shiny ABS keycaps. I don't prefer it, but I like it.

s-s-senpai
More
(http://i.imgur.com/eZWHPRF.gif)

Ever since I found an old NCR G80 at my school, I haven't been able to stop thinking about a GMK keyset with uniform shine. Would like to experiment with lacquer on a set.

Edit: For reference, here are some banners from Deskthority I've been obsessed with from when I used to hang over there:
More
(http://deskthority.net/resources/image/8998)

(http://deskthority.net/resources/image/3152)

(http://i.imgur.com/K3Vyd.jpg)

(http://deskthority.net/styles/deskthority_base/theme/images/dashboard2.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 08 May 2015, 19:08:57
Unpopular opinion - bottles of various bodily fluids don't belong on keyboard forums.

But then again, I'm new here.

You're right.

Show Image
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/8c444bbb741f9616ef16ee70b59d1a0e/tumblr_inline_n2c199Qigy1s7gk8i.gif)



Unpopular keyboard opinions - I like the feeling of shiny ABS keycaps. I don't prefer it, but I like it.

I have a Cherry doubleshot set that someone polished to a shine.  I absolutely love 'em.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 19:22:29
The frog thang comes from 4chan, and is usually used to indicate that someone is feeling bad / suicidal.  As I'm not feeling bad or suicidal, and my original post couldn't be taken as indicating that I am, I'll count its total misuse as a partial vindication of my last point.
Perhaps we were using it to indicate that we were feeling bad/suicidal after you called us ****ing idiots.
If you give a flying **** what I think of you, you are a ****ing idiot.

(http://media.tumblr.com/936b72dfe22c8aed40dad7a3d60ed6c4/tumblr_inline_mrteybMdEf1qz4rgp.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 08 May 2015, 21:24:40
 This thread has really gone too far.  What happened? 

Lock this thread and throw away the key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 08 May 2015, 21:41:01
s-s-senpai
More
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/eZWHPRF.gif)

Ever since I found an old NCR G80 at my school, I haven't been able to stop thinking about a GMK keyset with uniform shine. Would like to experiment with lacquer on a set.

Dood... a uniform set of shiny GMK would be amazing. It'd be pretty awesome if they had Cherry profile sets that had the texture of SA caps... I'd be all in on that. Lacquer would be interesting but might feel too sticky.


Unpopular keyboard opinions - I like the feeling of shiny ABS keycaps. I don't prefer it, but I like it.

I have a Cherry doubleshot set that someone polished to a shine.  I absolutely love 'em.

Ooooo. Must be nice~~~ Butter~

I regret not accepting a super shiny set of OG WoB Cherry caps that my local friend offered me back in 2012... *sigh*


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 09 May 2015, 07:41:25
8.25 pounds = 3.75 kilograms, is a good weight for a keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 09 May 2015, 08:47:06
I, too, am a chubby chaser when it comes to keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:28:54
Mine's over 10 pounds, so I think I count as having a fatty fetish.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dihedral on Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:32:58
I'm done with this thread. Unwatched.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:34:57
I'm done with this thread. Unwatched.
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4858539/filthy-frank-oooo-nobody-gives-a-****-o.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:42:31
8.25 pounds = 3.75 kilograms, is a good weight for a keyboard.


I love hefty boards too!!!


I, too, am a chubby chaser when it comes to keyboards.

muffin tops are cute


I'm done with this thread. Unwatched.

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m04czgxLn21qzlvmi.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:59:06
This may be unpopular, but LCARS keyboards are horribly unergonomic.
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/a/af/Ezris_LCARS_keyboard.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060822185340&path-prefix=en)

I think they make them that way so you are forced to use voice commands, so the Starfleet librarian can shush you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 09 May 2015, 11:00:30
I'm done with this thread. Unwatched.

Good. Gtfo
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Sat, 09 May 2015, 12:30:13
I'm done with this thread. Unwatched.

Good. Gtfo

You do understand that if he unsubscribed he wont see your reply. Making your post useless :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 09 May 2015, 12:34:08
Idgaf
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Sun, 10 May 2015, 03:06:46
Idgaf

No doubt in my mind.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sun, 10 May 2015, 03:54:33
Miami is a fantastic looking set.

That seems mildly unpopular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 10 May 2015, 07:54:20
Hhkb is worth it's price >.>













Jk. Even I don't believe that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sun, 10 May 2015, 08:11:40
Hhkb is worth it's price >.>













Jk. Even I don't believe that.
I believe...  :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 10 May 2015, 11:10:00
Hhkb is worth it's price >.>













Jk. Even I don't believe that.
I believe...  :'(
youre still in the honeymoon stage. ENJOY IT.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: morpheus on Sun, 10 May 2015, 11:33:21
Let's get back on track here, guys.

This is dope setup.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xerxes on Sun, 10 May 2015, 12:30:47
60% keyboards aren't practical, even with the programmable layers. I liken it to people who build their linux distros "from the ground up". They're just senselessly creating a rabbit hole of unnecessary work.

That's so me.

Coincidentially I am getting a pok3r
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 10 May 2015, 13:15:37
I can't feel the difference between typing on keyboard in aluminium housing and typing on keyboard in plastic housing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Sun, 10 May 2015, 17:53:23
I'm thinking in implementing a key like this.
Tap = Apply shift to the next key pressed
Hold = Normal shift
Double tap fast = Toggle caps lock (yeah, capslock is nice to have)
thanks to the help of a member from AHK forum, i now have a script that does exactly what you describe

shift::
Input, key, L1, {LShift}{RShift}
IfInString, ErrorLevel, Shift
     {
     SetCapsLockState, % GetKeyState("CapsLock","T")?"Off":"On"
     KeyWait, Shift
     }
else
     SendInput +{%key%}
return
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rsac on Mon, 11 May 2015, 09:30:29
thanks to the help of a member from AHK forum, i now have a script that does exactly what you describe

shift::
Input, key, L1, {LShift}{RShift}
IfInString, ErrorLevel, Shift
     {
     SetCapsLockState, % GetKeyState("CapsLock","T")?"Off":"On"
     KeyWait, Shift
     }
else
     SendInput +{%key%}
return
Oh, thanks, that is cool. I'm not using windows, but I hope some other people find it useful. What about starting a topic with your script?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:08:20
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:17:38
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.

An unpopular opinion in retort: As a Linux user, the "Win" does not bother me at all :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:21:59
I still see infinity as being a great alternative to any "Win" key.  That gives an infinite variety of options for that key.  End the frustration.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:22:17
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.

An unpopular opinion in retort: As a Linux user, the "Win" does not bother me at all :P

DUUUDE, that ****s gotta go!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:23:53
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.

An unpopular opinion in retort: As a Linux user, the "Win" does not bother me at all :P

DUUUDE, that ****s gotta go!

Vortex Doubleshot PBT Blue White set. It matches my Poker Tex Case perfectly and it looks like my dream keyboard (well, until the GON comes in). I can live with the "WIN" key for that. It's hard in general to get a high quality PBT set with a the tux/penguin logo.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:30:19
I still see infinity as being a great alternative to any "Win" key.  That gives an infinite variety of options for that key.  End the frustration.

Noooo, we can't give infiniti (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=25608) that much power!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:30:35
Sci-Fi themed artisan caps are tacky. That's actually not that unpopular of an opinion but w/e.

Star Wars/Dr.Who/Star Trek-themed anything is consumeristic and trite. You're the kind of people I imagine browsing reddit.com/r/gaming and reddit.com/r/funny.

But, this is probably the most generous and supportive community I've ever seen. You guys are fantastic! :thumb:

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Mon, 11 May 2015, 14:37:42
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.

An unpopular opinion in retort: As a Linux user, the "Win" does not bother me at all :P

DUUUDE, that ****s gotta go!

Vortex Doubleshot PBT Blue White set. It matches my Poker Tex Case perfectly and it looks like my dream keyboard (well, until the GON comes in). I can live with the "WIN" key for that. It's hard in general to get a high quality PBT set with a the tux/penguin logo.

Still not ok! get blank mods :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Mon, 11 May 2015, 15:00:57
Still not ok! get blank mods :)

They don't match the color :( Aesthetics over loyalty! How's that for unpopular opinion :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 11 May 2015, 15:13:30
Okay here's another one. Anyone who goes through the effort of designing a custom keyset and setting up a group buy, and writes "WIN" on the bloody gui keys are like a chef who cooks a kobe sirloin sous vide, and then takes a **** on it.
do you take issue with the spelling out of the word instead of using the logo, or do you simply want a more OS neutral legend? in any case, the best way to end the frustration is to cease using the key. i remapped my winkey to caps lock and haven't looked back since. and winkeyless layouts look much better anyway


They don't match the color :( Aesthetics over loyalty! How's that for unpopular opinion :))
aesthetics too strong  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eszett on Mon, 11 May 2015, 16:08:22
IMHO are blank mods perfectly tolerable, except for a bottom row with 7 or more mod keys (around space). 7 is too much. But for example a HHKB layout with blank mods is perfectly tolerable, because you mostly won't mi**** any key, even when pressing them blindly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Mon, 11 May 2015, 16:24:02
do you take issue with the spelling out of the word instead of using the logo, or do you simply want a more OS neutral legend? in any case, the best way to end the frustration is to cease using the key. i remapped my winkey to caps lock and haven't looked back since. and winkeyless layouts look much better anyway

Haha... well the Windows logo is equally bad, probably worse as it lacks the irony of having a key on your keyboard labeled "win". (This gives me an idea for a delightfully ironic "e-sport": the player who hits the "win" key fastest after the match starts, wins.)

On a non-blank keyset, I'm perfectly okay with "Meta", "Command" or "Super". :) I consider Linux penguin keys to be in bad taste, because they ape Windows keyboards. (Same goes for the recessed circular emblem shape on those keys.)

The aesthetical point of this whole thing is the history you reach back to. With "Command", you reach back to the Macintosh, and the original vision of Steve Jobs about combining computers and proper typography. With "Meta", you reach back to the world of UNIX, and with "Super", you reach back to the venerable Symbolics keyboards.

An OS logo, or "Win" reaches back to Windows-bloody-ninety-five. Not the most glorious of pasts to remember, I have to say.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 11 May 2015, 17:26:46

The aesthetical point of this whole thing is


"Those" are the perfect keys to replace with whatever decorative or arty key caps strike your fancy.

Too bad that they occur in odd shapes, sizes, and profiles.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:32:44
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:37:04
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
It is more comfortable, especially on RF boards. If your board has a high tilt, or you sit low, it digs into your thumb
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:42:36
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
It is more comfortable, especially on RF boards. If your board has a high tilt, or you sit low, it digs into your thumb

been using a rf this whole time and never had a problem

you guys must have some stiff thumbs
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:47:15
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
literally infinitely more comfortable
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Mon, 11 May 2015, 21:50:03
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
I just flipped it for you babe.  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 12 May 2015, 02:42:50
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm

^

ol' charmin soft thumbs can't handle a spacebar
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Tue, 12 May 2015, 03:31:02
Still not ok! get blank mods :)

They don't match the color :( Aesthetics over loyalty! How's that for unpopular opinion :))

I just died a little.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 12 May 2015, 08:27:46
Still not ok! get blank mods :)

They don't match the color :( Aesthetics over loyalty! How's that for unpopular opinion :))

I just died a little.

Hey, they match Arch Linux colors at least. When Arch decides to make doubleshot PBT mods with the logo, I'll be the first to buy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: greath on Tue, 12 May 2015, 09:40:33
There might not be a "best" gaming switch, but some are certainly worse than others. MX blue/green and others in the clicky line are horrible for double-tapping compared to the rest of the cherry line (especially compared to the liner switches). Old buckling spring with 2KRO is not ok for a lot of modern games.

So when some asks "what's the best gaming switch" the response of "there's not one" or "it's all a matter of preference," is not helpful. "Red, black, brown, or clear," would be a lot more useful to most gamers. For people that play FPS a liner switch probably IS an appropriate answer to "what's the best gaming switch" simply because of the double-tapping required.   
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Tue, 12 May 2015, 13:17:31
I thought this was a unpopular opinion thread? People commonly suggest linear switches for gaming.

I use blues for games and I haven't ran into issues. Probably because I don't double tap that much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 12 May 2015, 16:19:33
There might not be a "best" gaming switch, but some are certainly worse than others. MX blue/green and others in the clicky line are horrible for double-tapping compared to the rest of the cherry line (especially compared to the liner switches). Old buckling spring with 2KRO is not ok for a lot of modern games.

So when some asks "what's the best gaming switch" the response of "there's not one" or "it's all a matter of preference," is not helpful. "Red, black, brown, or clear," would be a lot more useful to most gamers. For people that play FPS a liner switch probably IS an appropriate answer to "what's the best gaming switch" simply because of the double-tapping required.
I can't say that I've run into problems with hysterisis playing FPSs. Sure, you're tapping WASD pretty quickly, but not really fast enough that I'd call it double-tapping.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Huxley2500 on Tue, 12 May 2015, 16:38:13
 Cherry MX Blue is BEST for gaming!



  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 12 May 2015, 16:57:48
Topre feels closer to rubber dome than mechanical
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 12 May 2015, 18:34:13
Topre feels closer to rubber dome than mechanical

It is rubber dome, just super refined and nice feeling rubber domes with tighter tolerances than your membrane RD and other crappy RD boards.

Of course, RealForce, Leopold, and Cooler Master iterations of Topre all feel like crap to me compared to the HHKB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lookitdisnub on Tue, 12 May 2015, 18:43:21
Topre feels closer to rubber dome than mechanical

Define how "mechanical" feels
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Tue, 12 May 2015, 19:24:20
IBM Model M's (except for M13s and Industrials) aren't beige. They're off-white, eggshell or putty (your choice). The "beige" misnomer has continued because it was never sufficiently challenged.

Since I backed down from that position here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71777.msg1742537#msg1742537), I thought I might as well post it in this topic where everyone's being so contrary. It also seemed like a good idea to confirm that I'm still looking around for a life to get.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 12 May 2015, 19:30:35
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
It is more comfortable, especially on RF boards. If your board has a high tilt, or you sit low, it digs into your thumb

I happened to read this post just as I sit in front of my high tilt keyboard, with my thumb caressing the delightfully distinct edge of my normally oriented spacebar :)

I did try flipping it before to see what the fuss was about. It felt different, but not any better. If anything, I use the edge of the spacebar to help my hands find the correct distance to the home row keys, something that doesn't work with a flipped spacebar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 12 May 2015, 21:51:06
STOP FLIPPING YOUR GOD DAM F***ING SPACE BAR. IT LOOKS STUPID AND THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. STOP ACTING LIKE ITS SO DAM COMFORTABLE. sorry I rage at the sight of flipped space bars... you still type at >70wpm
It is more comfortable, especially on RF boards. If your board has a high tilt, or you sit low, it digs into your thumb

I happened to read this post just as I sit in front of my high tilt keyboard, with my thumb caressing the delightfully distinct edge of my normally oriented spacebar :)

I did try flipping it before to see what the fuss was about. It felt different, but not any better. If anything, I use the edge of the spacebar to help my hands find the correct distance to the home row keys, something that doesn't work with a flipped spacebar.

Aesthetics > comfort. And good point on the distance finding!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 12 May 2015, 21:56:27
The first time I saw a flipped spacebar, I thought the keyboard was broken actually.  It looks wrong to me, but I suppose some people prefer it that way.  I'd rather keep it normal myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Tue, 12 May 2015, 23:26:44
I agree it looks weird but is damn comforable imo.  Some keyboards space bars dig into my thumbs and it is actually quite painful.  Luckily I don't have this issue with IBM space bars.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 13 May 2015, 02:18:31
Sci-Fi themed artisan caps are tacky. That's actually not that unpopular of an opinion but w/e.

Star Wars/Dr.Who/Star Trek-themed anything is consumeristic and trite. You're the kind of people I imagine browsing reddit.com/r/gaming and reddit.com/r/funny.

But, this is probably the most generous and supportive community I've ever seen. You guys are fantastic! :thumb:



Your second point makes absolutely no sense. Wtf does /r/funny/gaming have to do with Star Wars/Star Trek and even ****ty dr. Who?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Wed, 13 May 2015, 02:26:56
****ty dr. Who?
God bless you!!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 13 May 2015, 02:28:50
****ty dr. Who?
God bless you!!!
Not sure if agreeing with me or what but if you are

<3

Doctor who most boring show ever. And "whovians" or whatever the hell they call themselves are cringeworthy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Wed, 13 May 2015, 02:39:10
Sci-Fi themed artisan caps are tacky. That's actually not that unpopular of an opinion but w/e.

Star Wars/Dr.Who/Star Trek-themed anything is consumeristic and trite. You're the kind of people I imagine browsing reddit.com/r/gaming and reddit.com/r/funny.

But, this is probably the most generous and supportive community I've ever seen. You guys are fantastic! :thumb:



Your second point makes absolutely no sense. Wtf does /r/funny/gaming have to do with Star Wars/Star Trek and even ****ty dr. Who?

Alright, maybe it was a non-sequitir.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 13 May 2015, 03:05:33
Also you'll see there is a brand loyalty here. Can't get more consumeristic(??) than that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bueller on Wed, 13 May 2015, 03:08:01
40% boards are dumb. Sorry jd :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fullcream on Wed, 13 May 2015, 03:14:29
MX Blue is a disgusting switch. Typing on or hearing these switches is nauseating.
What is with the force curve in these switches. It's not even a curve, its a spike.
Feel all 50cN of required actuation in the first 2mm and then snap and your finger unintentionally slams the switch down to bottom out.
How is that motion even remotely satisfying.
It's like your pushing the stem past a distinct obstruction rather than an actual tactile curve with an audible click around the peak of the required force.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Wed, 13 May 2015, 06:26:14
Topre feels closer to rubber dome than mechanical

Define how "mechanical" feels

Probably not an unpopular opinion.

But I think "mechanical" keyboards denotes a keyboard of superior quality and feeling. The word itself strictly doesn't mean much, technical anything that works is mechanical, but the community added their own meaning and I think that is the important part. So while tropes do have mechanisms similar to rubber domes, realize that the word "mechanical" is arbitrary and making distinctions is a fruitless attempt. Whats important to focus on is the feeling of the keyboard.

To answer your question, I think "mechanical" means nice feeling switches and the OP means that tropes feels similar to rubber dome to him/her.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 13 May 2015, 07:26:13
But I think "mechanical" keyboards denotes a keyboard of superior quality and feeling.
I think "mechanical" means nice feeling switches
*facepalm*

That's beyond ridiculous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Wed, 13 May 2015, 07:28:52
But I think "mechanical" keyboards denotes a keyboard of superior quality and feeling.
I think "mechanical" means nice feeling switches
*facepalm*

That's beyond ridiculous.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 08:19:09
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Wed, 13 May 2015, 08:21:05
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 13 May 2015, 08:35:41
To answer your question, I think "mechanical" means nice feeling switches [...]

Boobs aren't mechanical, unfortunately.  :p Or abs, I suppose, for the ladies.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 08:51:43
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.

No need to apologize.  A lot of people (myself included) misspell topre (thorpe) on purpose (albeit after someone mistakenly did so), so I just wasn't sure.  :)  (lots of parentheses :P )
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Wed, 13 May 2015, 08:57:40
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.

No need to apologize.  A lot of people (myself included) misspell topre (thorpe) on purpose (albeit after someone mistakenly did so), so I just wasn't sure.  :)  (lots of parentheses :P )

And all this time I thought it was pronounced Toe-Pray, like a bad French student.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 09:00:40
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.

No need to apologize.  A lot of people (myself included) misspell topre (thorpe) on purpose (albeit after someone mistakenly did so), so I just wasn't sure.  :)  (lots of parentheses :P )

And all this time I thought it was pronounced Toe-Pray, like a bad French student.

It is pronounced like that though.  :P  Although some will tell you differently - we've had multiple threads on the topic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Wed, 13 May 2015, 09:20:19
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.

No need to apologize.  A lot of people (myself included) misspell topre (thorpe) on purpose (albeit after someone mistakenly did so), so I just wasn't sure.  :)  (lots of parentheses :P )

And all this time I thought it was pronounced Toe-Pray, like a bad French student.

It is pronounced like that though.  :P  Although some will tell you differently - we've had multiple threads on the topic.

I thought it was pronounced as "Toe-preh"? As in "Tokyo Press".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 09:23:50
tropes

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.
I meant topre. Sorry I am pretty bad at spelling. It was unintentional.

No need to apologize.  A lot of people (myself included) misspell topre (thorpe) on purpose (albeit after someone mistakenly did so), so I just wasn't sure.  :)  (lots of parentheses :P )

And all this time I thought it was pronounced Toe-Pray, like a bad French student.

It is pronounced like that though.  :P  Although some will tell you differently - we've had multiple threads on the topic.

I thought it was pronounced as "Toe-preh"? As in "Tokyo Press".

IMO, as long as you say either of those and not "Topper" you're good.  ;D  I'm looking at you, Bro and Punks (IIRC)...   >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Wed, 13 May 2015, 09:43:25
Feel all 50cN of required actuation in the first 2mm and then snap and your finger unintentionally slams the switch down to bottom out.
How is that motion even remotely satisfying.

I bet you have never typed on an electric typewriter. I remember typing on this East German beast as a kid, it was loud as ****, and when you pressed a key, it was ridiculously heavy, but once actuated, it almost literally SHOT away from your finger, like negative force after actuation.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 13 May 2015, 10:54:23
I don't like the feel of the IBM Model M. I think it feels clacky but not as nice as true clicky switches like MX Green or SMK Blues.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 10:58:06
'True' clicky?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:03:40

MX Blue is a disgusting switch. Typing on or hearing these switches is nauseating.
What is with the force curve in these switches. It's not even a curve, its a spike.
Feel all 50cN of required actuation in the first 2mm and then snap and your finger unintentionally slams the switch down to bottom out.
How is that motion even remotely satisfying.
It's like your pushing the stem past a distinct obstruction rather than an actual tactile curve with an audible click around the peak of the required force.

Not to mention the shrill and obnoxious click noise.  Blues are the worst.  Vintage/broken in Blues are actually nice though.

I thought it was pronounced as "Toe-preh"? As in "Tokyo Press".

IMO, as long as you say either of those and not "Topper" you're good.  ;D  I'm looking at you, Bro and Punks (IIRC)...   >:D

It's Toe-Pruh bruh.


I don't like the feel of the IBM Model M. I think it feels clacky but not as nice as true clicky switches like MX Green or SMK Blues.

Well, the Model M is basically IBM's Cherry MY.  Model F for BS or go home.

MX Greens are horrible though. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:04:32
MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:04:51
'True' clicky?

I meant "true" as in each switch being independent of each other. Model M's have springs but they are not individual switches due to the underlying membrane. I don't mean to say that the IBM isn't clicky or anything.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:10:39
MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.

I survive on the tears of virgins.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:15:04
'True' clicky?

I meant "true" as in each switch being independent of each other. Model M's have springs but they are not individual switches due to the underlying membrane. I don't mean to say that the IBM isn't clicky or anything.

That's not inherent to the mechanism, though.  You could make a buckling spring board (M or F) with discrete switches, it just doesn't make sense. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:17:45
MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.

I survive on the tears of virgins.

Then why attack me? You'd starve  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:21:54

MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.

I survive on the tears of virgins.

Then why attack me? You'd starve  :D

Nah, everyone here is virgins.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:24:55
MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.

I survive on the tears of virgins.

Then why attack me? You'd starve  :D

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:59:07
MX Greens are horrible though.

It's like you WANT to hurt my feelings.

I survive on the tears of virgins.

Then why attack me? You'd starve  :D

Show Image
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif)


You're right, I guess I would cry.  ;)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 13 May 2015, 11:59:54

Nah, everyone here is virgins.

I suppose I don't exist here then :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Wed, 13 May 2015, 12:11:34
****ty dr. Who?
God bless you!!!
Not sure if agreeing with me or what but if you are

<3

Doctor who most boring show ever. And "whovians" or whatever the hell they call themselves are cringeworthy.
fully agree!!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 13 May 2015, 13:11:50
I have watched Dr Who off and on since the 1970s.

The new series was great when it hit its stride, and, even though Tom Baker was "my Doctor" I have to say that David Tennant was the best Doctor ever, hands-down.

However, Matt Smith was one of the very worst, and this latest season is genuinely disgusting. I watched maybe half a dozen episodes with my teenage kids, and even they couldn't stand to watch it any more.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gaspar on Wed, 13 May 2015, 22:08:38
I have watched Dr Who off and on since the 1970s.

The new series was great when it hit its stride, and, even though Tom Baker was "my Doctor" I have to say that David Tennant was the best Doctor ever, hands-down.

However, Matt Smith was one of the very worst, and this latest season is genuinely disgusting. I watched maybe half a dozen episodes with my teenage kids, and even they couldn't stand to watch it any more.

I'm at season 6 atm and I agree, Matt Smith is the worst Doctor  :-[ But Karen Gillian is sooo cute...

Is Matt Smith still the actual Doctor?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Wed, 13 May 2015, 23:09:56
I have watched Dr Who off and on since the 1970s.

The new series was great when it hit its stride, and, even though Tom Baker was "my Doctor" I have to say that David Tennant was the best Doctor ever, hands-down.

However, Matt Smith was one of the very worst, and this latest season is genuinely disgusting. I watched maybe half a dozen episodes with my teenage kids, and even they couldn't stand to watch it any more.

I'm at season 6 atm and I agree, Matt Smith is the worst Doctor  :-[ But Karen Gillian is sooo cute...

Is Matt Smith still the actual Doctor?
Peter Capladi is the current Doctor, and I quite enjoy him as the Doctor, though I haven't seen all of the latest season yet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LouisHjelmslev on Wed, 13 May 2015, 23:20:29
Without singling out any specific model, I think 'custom keyboards' that sandwich flat sheets of acrylic look incredibly cheap. In most of them, you can even see the lasercutter's step resolution along the curves/beveled edges. Exposed bolts/screws, and some with very clumsy looking spacers in the form of stock-aluminum tubing. To top it off, they often come with fixed feet that resemble metal drain plugs.  :p
All in all, they look like a first-year product design student's project. Nothing inherently bad with that, but aesthetically not very refined, and they certainly shouldn't be commanding such high prices with their lack of design refinement.
Don't even get me started on the ergodox varieties of sandwiching acrylic sheets!  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 14 May 2015, 00:15:23
Without singling out any specific model, I think 'custom keyboards' that sandwich flat sheets of acrylic look incredibly cheap. In most of them, you can even see the lasercutter's step resolution along the curves/beveled edges. Exposed bolts/screws, and some with very clumsy looking spacers in the form of stock-aluminum tubing. To top it off, they often come with fixed feet that resemble metal drain plugs.  :p
All in all, they look like a first-year product design student's project. Nothing inherently bad with that, but aesthetically not very refined, and they certainly shouldn't be commanding such high prices with their lack of design refinement.
Don't even get me started on the ergodox varieties of sandwiching acrylic sheets!  :-*

completely agree
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 14 May 2015, 03:15:30
Without singling out any specific model, I think 'custom keyboards' that sandwich flat sheets of acrylic look incredibly cheap. In most of them, you can even see the lasercutter's step resolution along the curves/beveled edges. Exposed bolts/screws, and some with very clumsy looking spacers in the form of stock-aluminum tubing. To top it off, they often come with fixed feet that resemble metal drain plugs.  :p
All in all, they look like a first-year product design student's project. Nothing inherently bad with that, but aesthetically not very refined, and they certainly shouldn't be commanding such high prices with their lack of design refinement.
Don't even get me started on the ergodox varieties of sandwiching acrylic sheets!  :-*
Acrylic anything is ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minh278 on Thu, 14 May 2015, 03:20:48
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Thu, 14 May 2015, 03:50:38
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.

Full size are battleships.

I'm upset that ~60%s don't have F-keys, and I'm upset that I don't see many people upset about it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: absyrd on Thu, 14 May 2015, 03:51:47
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.

Full size are battleships.

I'm upset that ~60%s don't have F-keys, and I'm upset that I don't see many people upset about it.

Go 75%. Or use Fn layers like the rest of us. No need to be upset.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 14 May 2015, 04:13:23
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.
Really? I like 60%s, because you have one coherent field of keys without weird gaps in between.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minh278 on Thu, 14 May 2015, 04:34:13
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.
Really? I like 60%s, because you have one coherent field of keys without weird gaps in between.

For some reason i have the longing for keys i never use when i view a 60%. I must have hoarding genes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Thu, 14 May 2015, 09:04:29
I've watched Dr Who since... the 80s? And most of the old black and white series.

The 'new', recently revived series just sucks complete ass. It's like they've kept everything that was bad and boring out of the old series (campy special effects, which they had an excuse for in the 70s), and tossed out all the stuff that was good (seems every bloody episode is on Earth, or revolves around humans).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sigmoid on Thu, 14 May 2015, 09:07:02
60% keyboards look weird. Tenkeyless looks stunted. Full-size looks fine. 122-key equals a whale.
Really? I like 60%s, because you have one coherent field of keys without weird gaps in between.

I love the IBM PC/XT layout for this very reason - it has a numpad, and yet keeps the whole keyboard in one piece. I've been thinking of doing a brand new keyboard based on this principle, maybe a sculpted SA alpha cluster, and an unsculpted numpad to make it different.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 14 May 2015, 09:08:00
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 14 May 2015, 11:33:57

Acrylic anything is ugly.


Yep
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 14 May 2015, 12:26:57
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 14 May 2015, 12:36:10
Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ATXTider on Thu, 14 May 2015, 13:24:16
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

All Dr. Who is terrible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 14 May 2015, 14:09:40
I've watched Dr Who since... the 80s? And most of the old black and white series.

The 'new', recently revived series just sucks complete ass. It's like they've kept everything that was bad and boring out of the old series (campy special effects, which they had an excuse for in the 70s), and tossed out all the stuff that was good (seems every bloody episode is on Earth, or revolves around humans).
Season 1 of the the revived series is a lot more earthy than the later seasons, and the effects get a lot better, in my opinion.

But that's just if you stopped on the early seasons..

For an Unpopular Keyboard opinion thread, this has a lot of Doctor who. :P

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 14 May 2015, 14:15:07
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 14 May 2015, 15:12:56
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Fully agree with the shades, but it also looks ok on classic beige.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 14 May 2015, 15:14:33
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Fully agree with the shades, but it also looks ok on classic beige.
Hoffs Pac 62 looks pretty damn nice. I'd count that as a good one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 14 May 2015, 15:19:22

I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Fully agree with the shades, but it also looks ok on classic beige.
Hoffs Pac 62 looks pretty damn nice. I'd count that as a good one.
Doesn't it use cmyw?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 14 May 2015, 15:24:17

I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Fully agree with the shades, but it also looks ok on classic beige.
Hoffs Pac 62 looks pretty damn nice. I'd count that as a good one.
Doesn't it use cmyw?
I'd have to look again, though you're probably right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 14 May 2015, 18:06:53

I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.
Fully agree with the shades, but it also looks ok on classic beige.
Hoffs Pac 62 looks pretty damn nice. I'd count that as a good one.
Doesn't it use cmyw?
I'd have to look again, though you're probably right.
It does. People only use the CMYK mod kit w/ dolch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 14 May 2015, 18:16:22
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.

I actually think RGB works with everything, and i like the shades of RGB  ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 14 May 2015, 18:34:03
I guess it's an unpopular opinion then, but I still enjoy the new Doctor Who.  I haven't watched it since the 11th doctor ended, so I still need to see the 12th doctor.

Color me surprised YOU like dr. who >.>

Eh, it's mindless and silly.  That's the kind of thing I need after coming home from my job.


Sorry billnye and ivan
cmyk/cmyw look ugly ^-^
Rgb ftw

RGB only works with Desko.  RGB is hideous a majority of the time, especially with the shades of RGB chosen.

I actually think RGB works with everything, and i like the shades of RGB  ^-^
Rgb doesn't go with WoB IMO
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 14 May 2015, 19:54:59

For an Unpopular Keyboard opinion thread, this has a lot of Doctor who.


A keyboard enthusiast and Dr Who fan could have a field day identifying all the keyboards that have appeared (mostly, but not all, in the Tardis) since 1963.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 14 May 2015, 20:04:11
I think normal model m looks better than industrial model m.  I don't like model m though.
I don't like dolch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Thu, 14 May 2015, 21:27:00
I don't like dolch
Hell yes! The Dolch gray looks dull and boring.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Thu, 14 May 2015, 22:07:38
I don't like dolch

with or without color pack? cause i don't like it stock but with color pack it blows me away.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Fri, 15 May 2015, 00:00:18
The "budget" Type Heaven is a really nice keyboard. It's solidly constructed and the Topre switches feel great. It makes the Cherry brown-based board I had before feel like garbage.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 15 May 2015, 00:06:44
I don't like dolch

with or without color pack? cause i don't like it stock but with color pack it blows me away.

Both.  imo, dolch has a too light color for the alpha keys, it may looks good with a little bit lighter modifiers.  Without color pack it looks too boring and dark in color.  The color pack is too bright for dolch, I think it would looks good with a simple BoW set.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Fri, 15 May 2015, 12:12:40
Unpopular opinion: Ergoclears feel weird and mushy and gross. I'm not sure if it's the spring weight or the lube, but probably the lube since I tried two different spring weights and thought both were... Mushy. I like stock clears so much better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: absyrd on Fri, 15 May 2015, 13:59:08
Translucent artisan keycaps are poo. You cannot see the detail IRL from a seated position using your keyboard. Only works when you hold it up just right to the light or are using a macro setting on the camera. Or maybe I'm just blind. And stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Fri, 15 May 2015, 14:02:39
Translucent artisan keycaps are poo. You cannot see the detail IRL from a seated position using your keyboard. Only works when you hold it up just right to the light or are using a macro setting on the camera. Or maybe I'm just blind. And stupid.

They work best on a board with backlighting. Otherwise yeah you need to hold them to light or set up for a photo. XD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LouisHjelmslev on Fri, 15 May 2015, 15:07:17
Unpopular opinion: Ergoclears feel weird and mushy and gross. I'm not sure if it's the spring weight or the lube, but probably the lube since I tried two different spring weights and thought both were... Mushy. I like stock clears so much better.

Really? I'm worried now, because I was planning to mod my FC6660M to ergo clears with 62g. Personally I felt that stock clears didn't have any 'definition', they were just kind of - mushy.
Is this a popular-unpopular opinion, or just an unpopular opinion?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 15 May 2015, 15:08:55
Unpopular opinion: Ergoclears feel weird and mushy and gross. I'm not sure if it's the spring weight or the lube, but probably the lube since I tried two different spring weights and thought both were... Mushy. I like stock clears so much better.

Really? I'm worried now, because I was planning to mod my FC6660M to ergo clears with 62g. Personally I felt that stock clears didn't have any 'definition', they were just kind of - mushy.
Is this a popular-unpopular opinion, or just an unpopular opinion?

I've heard one other person dislike ergo clears as being too light, but never mushy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LouisHjelmslev on Fri, 15 May 2015, 15:43:05
Light I can definitely handle, on the other hand, mechanicals are too expensive for mushiness
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 15 May 2015, 16:05:04
mechanicals are too expensive for mushiness

Then how do you explain Topre?

*assumes fighting stance*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: absyrd on Fri, 15 May 2015, 16:44:12
It isn't cool or funny to post box pics. Just stop.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 15 May 2015, 16:50:59
It isn't cool or funny to post box pics. Just stop.
I agree, its just a tease :C
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Fri, 15 May 2015, 16:52:49
mechanicals are too expensive for mushiness

Then how do you explain Topre?

*assumes fighting stance*
My 55g HHKB is anything but mushy! I will fight anyone who says otherwise  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 15 May 2015, 17:44:14
Light I can definitely handle, on the other hand, mechanicals are too expensive for mushiness

I have only tried ergo clears on a test board on a tour, but, as of now, I believe that the top-shelf Cherry experience would be either lubed ergo clears, or "jailhouse" greens, with thin soft O-rings in either case.

But I am not a Cherry guy anyway, so what do I know?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 15 May 2015, 22:14:07
i think the hhkb hg with the brown painted(lacquer?) keycaps look extremely ugly.

all the korean keyboards look the same to me, except few.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Sat, 16 May 2015, 10:45:59
you need to set light to them. XD
FTFY.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fullcream on Sat, 16 May 2015, 16:35:58
Unpopular opinion: Ergoclears feel weird and mushy and gross. I'm not sure if it's the spring weight or the lube, but probably the lube since I tried two different spring weights and thought both were... Mushy. I like stock clears so much better.

Really? I'm worried now, because I was planning to mod my FC6660M to ergo clears with 62g. Personally I felt that stock clears didn't have any 'definition', they were just kind of - mushy.
Is this a popular-unpopular opinion, or just an unpopular opinion?

No need to worry, go ahead with the mod and it will bring you much pleasure.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 16 May 2015, 16:57:27
Cherry sucks. Cherry on topre is a keyboard sin.

Burn the heathens.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: IonutZ on Sat, 16 May 2015, 16:59:59
My keyboard is better than your keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 16 May 2015, 18:19:41
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 16 May 2015, 18:45:51
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 16 May 2015, 18:51:49
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 16 May 2015, 19:40:08
Kailhs are nicer than Cherry. There, I said it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 16 May 2015, 19:49:33
Kailhs are nicer than Cherry. There, I said it.

Hrrmm?

first time hearing this..

what about them specifically
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sat, 16 May 2015, 21:29:41
Kailhs are nicer than Cherry. There, I said it.

Hrrmm?

first time hearing this..

what about them specifically

They make you feel all gangster and ****.  Like you are from a Asian hood.  They go well with a hoodie and torn jeans.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 16 May 2015, 22:07:29
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

It is.  And the Ergodox sucks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 16 May 2015, 22:24:03
Ergodox sux, HHKB is the king, baby..  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Sat, 16 May 2015, 23:28:10
I don't see the appeal of HHKB or Torpes with its demanding price.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 16 May 2015, 23:33:25
I don't see the appeal of HHKB or Torpes with its demanding price.
You know what else can be demanding? Your mom, but you still love her, don't you?  :))



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zukoi on Sat, 16 May 2015, 23:48:58
I don't see the appeal of HHKB or Torpes with its demanding price.
You know what else can be demanding? Your mom, but you still love her, don't you?  :))
I guess what you pay is what you get.

I am making a custom keyboard so I put on a layout that is similar to HHKB and see what happens.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 18 May 2015, 19:20:45
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

It is.  And the Ergodox sucks.
dat thumb cluster
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Mon, 18 May 2015, 22:24:51
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

It is. And the Ergodox sucks.

Obvious troll
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 18 May 2015, 23:06:38
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

It is. And the Ergodox sucks.

Obvious troll

Nope.  Trolling would be saying that the Model M is the best keyboard known to man.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Mon, 18 May 2015, 23:21:21
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

You I like, though my HHKB is currently my favorite

no it isn't,  you lie..

It is. And the Ergodox sucks.

Obvious troll

Nope.  Trolling would be saying that the Model M is the best keyboard known to man.


That would be a Model F Maltron.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Wed, 20 May 2015, 22:44:53
Kailhs are nicer than Cherry. There, I said it.

Hrrmm?

first time hearing this..

what about them specifically

My friend likes Kailh better than Cherry as well. He likes the clicky Kailh (Razer Green) better than Blues b/c of the weight, and the softer click.

I tried his Blackwidow Chroma, was pleasantly surprised, and prefer it to stock MX Blue myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KineticIsEpic on Thu, 21 May 2015, 14:49:37
I actually like the Acer switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:03:39
I actually like the Acer switch.
/thread
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:10:30
I don't know about GH, I haven't seen it much around here, but r/mk sure seems to love it.
Deep Space is the ****test keyset I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:16:40
Deep SpaceHandarbeit is the ****test keyset I've ever seen.

FTFY.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:28:56
Deep SpaceHandarbeit is the ****test keyset I've ever seen.

FTFY.

Well, at least Handarbeit isn't trying to look good.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 21 May 2015, 16:36:54
Miami is a gross colorway, and I will never understand the apparent obsession with it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Thu, 21 May 2015, 16:37:44
Miami is a gross colorway, and I will never understand the apparent obsession with it.
Let me join you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 21 May 2015, 16:40:34
Miami is a gross colorway, and I will never understand the apparent obsession with it.
You need to play more Miami Hotline. You can feel 10x more immersed in it....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trees on Thu, 21 May 2015, 16:45:10
I prefer my MX blacks to my Topre for typing.

And my Topre to my Blacks for gaming.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rena on Fri, 22 May 2015, 23:04:19
Dunno if this is unpopular but I really don't like MX blues. People commonly praise these switches but I don't get the appeal, there's just nothing it does well. The click, tactile feel, etc, are all done better by other switches like alps or buckling spring. Honestly the only cherry mx switch i've cared for lately are clears
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 22 May 2015, 23:06:19
Deep SpaceHandarbeit is the ****test keyset I've ever seen.

FTFY.

all the colorful **** is ugly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 23 May 2015, 02:50:30
Topre purists need to get out the past.

And SA profile is ****ing ugly looking. It's overly tall and just unappealing IMO.

I haven't had a chance to type on a SA set, though.

I was wary at first, but it's quite nice. It doesn't feel like as much of a change compared to DSA
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 23 May 2015, 04:44:26
Dunno if this is unpopular but I really don't like MX blues. People commonly praise these switches but I don't get the appeal, there's just nothing it does well. The click, tactile feel, etc, are all done better by other switches like alps or buckling spring. Honestly the only cherry mx switch i've cared for lately are clears

This seems to be a pretty common opinion on GH.

It's probably an unpopular opinion on reddit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Sat, 23 May 2015, 05:21:01
i like mx blues and greens, and i kinda dont like BS :( the ping plong noise is abnoxious, althought i like the tactile feel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Magna224 on Sat, 23 May 2015, 07:34:59
Dunno if this is unpopular but I really don't like MX blues. People commonly praise these switches but I don't get the appeal, there's just nothing it does well. The click, tactile feel, etc, are all done better by other switches like alps or buckling spring. Honestly the only cherry mx switch i've cared for lately are clears


I feel the exact same way. =D I even mentioned the MX blue thing before here. Its my least favorite clicky switch ( I'd even take a simplified ALPS over it which is saying something!) but strangely extremely popular especially in the gaming crowd. I guess its just availability?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 23 May 2015, 08:30:36
A lot of people don't like blues.

It's just widely "praised" because it's one of the 3 "basic" switches and lots of people get them instead of linear reds or non-clicky browns.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 May 2015, 10:45:39
Yeah most people will either love Blues or hate them. But that's why there are so many different kinds of switches out there. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Sat, 23 May 2015, 11:08:22
Having tried Greens I can't go back to Blues. I do sometimes the miss of "flying" across blues though. Greens are definitely more "rhythmic" while blues felt like I could just skim across the keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 23 May 2015, 11:17:38
Having tried Greens I can't go back to Blues. I do sometimes the miss of "flying" across blues though. Greens are definitely more "rhythmic" while blues felt like I could just skim across the keys.

I really like greens as well. But I have just bought the Keycool RGB with Kailh blues and I don't hate them. But I do think Greens are a lot better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 May 2015, 12:32:54
Greens are the best mx switch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 May 2015, 12:56:38
Having tried Greens I can't go back to Blues. I do sometimes the miss of "flying" across blues though. Greens are definitely more "rhythmic" while blues felt like I could just skim across the keys.

I really like greens as well. But I have just bought the Keycool RGB with Kailh blues and I don't hate them. But I do think Greens are a lot better.

I bought the same board. I like it better than my Cherry Blues. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 23 May 2015, 12:58:58

Greens are the best mx switch
I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:02:52
I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

I've got a bag of new Whites if you want them :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:03:18

I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

I've got a bag of new Whites if you want them :P
Maybe, how many/what are you looking to get for them?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:06:13

Greens are the best mx switch
I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

You might like "vintage" Blues then.  They have a softer and more consistent click.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:08:42


Greens are the best mx switch
I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

You might like "vintage" Blues then.  They have a softer and more consistent click.
I am using vintage blues with 62g springs in my main board right now, I do like the softer click, but I haven't compared them to whites yet. If they end up being pretty much the exact same softness, I will still use them as I like the white color more than the blue color.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rena on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:29:25
Are greens much better than blues? I'd also like to know how the greens compare to tactile greys, besides the click of course
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 23 May 2015, 13:54:08
Are greens much better than blues? I'd also like to know how the greens compare to tactile greys, besides the click of course

Greens are identical to Blues, but with a heavier sorting and different color slider.  The heavier spring makes them louder and more annoying.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Sat, 23 May 2015, 14:56:32
Are greens much better than blues? I'd also like to know how the greens compare to tactile greys, besides the click of course

Greens are identical to Blues, but with a heavier sorting and different color slider.  The heavier spring makes them louder and more annoying.

That is a very good point, but there may be drawbacks to using them as well.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Sat, 23 May 2015, 15:04:53
Not a fan of MX Blues either. Once you wear headphones, all the magic disappears. :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Sat, 23 May 2015, 15:46:38
Greens are identical to Blues, but with a heavier sorting and different color slider.  The heavier spring makes them louder and more annoying.

I'll have to respectfully disagree here, the heavier spring actually results in a deeper and less resounding click. It's a lot less shrill and less annoying, to my ears anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 May 2015, 16:38:21
Are greens much better than blues? I'd also like to know how the greens compare to tactile greys, besides the click of course

Greens are identical to Blues, but with a heavier sorting and different color slider.  The heavier spring makes them louder and more annoying.

How dare you

Greens are the best mx switch
I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

Hated whites. Felt like typing on eggshells. Green and cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 May 2015, 16:59:19
cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.

Is that where you mix MX Blacks and MX Blues on the same keyboard?  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 23 May 2015, 17:01:37
I still haven't found a single person that shares my opinion on this one.. Lube on MX blues feels great.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Sat, 23 May 2015, 17:04:10
cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.

Is that where you mix MX Blacks and MX Blues on the same keyboard?  ;)

Ha!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sat, 23 May 2015, 17:59:31
Greens are identical to Blues, but with a heavier sorting and different color slider.  The heavier spring makes them louder and more annoying.

I'll have to respectfully disagree here, the heavier spring actually results in a deeper and less resounding click. It's a lot less shrill and less annoying, to my ears anyway.

this

i like the highpitched click of blues, so greens are both way too heavy and crappy sounding to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eziak on Sat, 23 May 2015, 21:41:03
DSA is the worst profile, none of the popular DSA sets are worth what they cost.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 May 2015, 22:29:34
cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.

Is that where you mix MX Blacks and MX Blues on the same keyboard?  ;)

blue stem black spring
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Sat, 23 May 2015, 22:59:24
cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.

Is that where you mix MX Blacks and MX Blues on the same keyboard?  ;)

blue stem black spring

thought these were called ghetto greens?

I like the "bruise" moniker better though - very clever!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 24 May 2015, 02:30:56

I like whites more than greens because they feel like they have a slightly softer click. I want to get a full board of whites and swap springs, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

I've got a bag of new Whites if you want them :P
Maybe, how many/what are you looking to get for them?

I think I have 110 but I would have to double check. I probably want about $50 shipped to the US because I had to pay $30 shipping, but I know you can get them for just over $50 from MK.com.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 24 May 2015, 02:40:51
cherry bruise only mx switches I can stand.

Is that where you mix MX Blacks and MX Blues on the same keyboard?  ;)

blue stem black spring

thought these were called ghetto greens?

I like the "bruise" moniker better though - very clever!
Yeah it sounds cooler. And I'm sure I stole it from somebody else because I'm not that clever :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cinnamoncider on Sun, 24 May 2015, 03:09:29
A lot of people don't like blues.
I also don't like MX Blues. If I want a clicky tactile keyboard; I would prefer a Buckling spring more than anything else. Blues clicky sound feels so artificial and the switch design is really intended to give a "click" sound. Cherry MX switches natural territory are linear switches IMO.

Clicky tactile -> Buckling spring
Non-clicky tactile -> Topre
Linear -> Cherry MX
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 24 May 2015, 03:37:10
Linear? Just get a ****ty rubberdome. No difference at all. Just a waste of money.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sun, 24 May 2015, 03:40:43
75% layout is just silly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 24 May 2015, 04:00:34
Linear? Just get a ****ty rubberdome. No difference at all. Just a waste of money.

Linear are ****ing awful.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 24 May 2015, 09:21:49
Linear? Just get a ****ty rubberdome. No difference at all. Just a waste of money.

Topre are far closer to rubber domes (since they are rubber domes), and you could also make the same comment about MX Brown and Clear (especially ergo clear) as they have a more similar tactility to RD than linears.

Linears have little in common with rubber dome as the travel has no bump or tactility of any kind.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Sun, 24 May 2015, 17:16:33
Chiclet switches can feel better than mechanical switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Sun, 24 May 2015, 21:20:39
Chiclet switches can feel better than mechanical switches.

GTFO.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: condoriano on Sun, 24 May 2015, 22:45:16
i think 60% and 40% are stupid. I couldnt live without function keys. The programmable layers are not an advantage of 60/40%, they can be implemented on any keyboard. Instead of trying to find a way to have fewer keys so that i don't have to move my hands around, i would rather try to optimize my space by adding more keys in it and keeping the same size. For that reason i like the 75% layouts, which get rid of the wasted space between F keys and numbers and next to ESC key. oh and needless to say i hate the silly designs that completely remove the key between ctl and alt and make it an empty space with no key (taking the space for bigger ctl and alt is another story but not a fan either). That or the removed CTL key on HHKB. HOW DUMB YOU'RE WASTING THE EXTRA SPACE PUT A GOD DAMN KEY. sorry i had to let it out. yet again i am new to the world of keyboard enthusiasm so im keeping an open mind  :))

Also i think the customizability on a commercial level is very poor. It is basically what brought me to this site. I have yet to find a commercial brand that does programmable firmware keyboards, and the number of existing layouts are almost all the same thing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 24 May 2015, 23:06:28
i think 60% and 40% are stupid. I couldnt live without function keys. The programmable layers are not an advantage of 60/40%, they can be implemented on any keyboard. Instead of trying to find a way to have fewer keys so that i don't have to move my hands around, i would rather try to optimize my space by adding more keys in it and keeping the same size. For that reason i like the 75% layouts, which get rid of the wasted space between F keys and numbers and next to ESC key. oh and needless to say i hate the silly designs that completely remove the key between ctl and alt and make it an empty space with no key (taking the space for bigger ctl and alt is another story but not a fan either). That or the removed CTL key on HHKB. HOW DUMB YOU'RE WASTING THE EXTRA SPACE PUT A GOD DAMN KEY. sorry i had to let it out. yet again i am new to the world of keyboard enthusiasm so im keeping an open mind  :))

Also i think the customizability on a commercial level is very poor. It is basically what brought me to this site. I have yet to find a commercial brand that does programmable firmware keyboards, and the number of existing layouts are almost all the same thing.

I agree with you on the above but I know Cherry keyboards have hardware reprogrammability.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sun, 24 May 2015, 23:07:42
i'm not sure what you're saying.

you want a keyboard that had both 60% FN layers AND the dedicated keys?

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: condoriano on Sun, 24 May 2015, 23:16:52
yes, as long as you have a custom controller or control on your firmware you can easily use any key to switch between layouts, no need of a 60% to do that. Also i see no reason to get rid of the F keys. Im more the type that would add even an extra row on top of it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Sun, 24 May 2015, 23:17:40
yes, as long as you have a custom controller or control on your firmware you can easily use any key to switch between layouts, no need of a 60% to do that. Also i see no reason to get rid of the F keys. Im more the type that would add even an extra row on top of it.

Just get a full size keyboard!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Sun, 24 May 2015, 23:38:53
Chiclet switches can feel better than mechanical switches.

Depending on the mechanical switch and the application, yeah, definitely. Typing on linear switches or gaming on buckling springs is awful.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Sun, 24 May 2015, 23:44:31
yes, as long as you have a custom controller or control on your firmware you can easily use any key to switch between layouts, no need of a 60% to do that. Also i see no reason to get rid of the F keys. Im more the type that would add even an extra row on top of it.

so you want this keyboard for yourself?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rena on Mon, 25 May 2015, 00:25:44
yes, as long as you have a custom controller or control on your firmware you can easily use any key to switch between layouts, no need of a 60% to do that. Also i see no reason to get rid of the F keys. Im more the type that would add even an extra row on top of it.
I don't see any reason to have dedicated F keys. much smarter to combine them with number keys imo, waste of space otherwise
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: condoriano on Mon, 25 May 2015, 01:27:08
for efficiency. switching layers is something that depends on my current application or setup. Doing so just to be able to use a function key seems extremely inefficient. Based on that logic we could make a keyboard with a single row and call it a 10% keyboard.

and for me i don't see how it is a waste of space. unless i had a tiny desk on which i cannot fit anything but 60%
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 25 May 2015, 02:58:43
I don't see any reason to have dedicated F keys. much smarter to combine them with number keys imo, waste of space otherwise

The whole space saving argument against Fn keys puzzles me. Saving space on either side of a keyboard I understand, but with the way most people use their desks an extra inch or so of space above their keyboard simply doesn't matter as this is not useful space- if it's used at all, it might be a place to dump some pens or a pen holder.

I find function keys useful because they are commonly accessed. Alt-F4 is a common Windows close command. F8/10/12 is used to access BIOS if you do that sort of stuff. F1 is useful to people who use help. F5 is browser reload.

These functions can be accessed by key combinations, but I find combos less convenient (and sometimes downright frustrating, such as when trying to enter BIOS when it flashes up for a second).

Perhaps this is a candidate for Unpopular Keyboard Opinion: Anything less than TKL is really done for aesthetics rather than functionality or comfort. Even TKL drops a lot of functionality, but I would argue that at least it increases comfort for some people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Mon, 25 May 2015, 08:12:53
I don't just flip my spacebar. I flip my whole bottom row.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 25 May 2015, 08:39:20
I don't just flip my spacebar. I flip my whole bottom row.
I can get down with this
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 25 May 2015, 09:07:45
as silly as it sounds, i would totally do that if the legends matched
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Epsilahn on Mon, 25 May 2015, 12:19:38
I've been here more than 24 hours, time to make some people despise me.   :))

1. Keyboards in the vein of the Poker and Infinity are the iPhones of keyboards.  Overpriced compared to more functional keyboards, trying too hard to look good with rounded-plastic-bucket bezels, and crippled by the justification "Well do we really need those functions?"

2. Blank keycaps.  Combine with #1 for the kind of keyboard an aspiring writer would whip out of his backpack to connect to his laptop for a "hardcore sesh" at a coffee house.

3. A LOT of vanity caps look bad.  There's plenty that look good, but that doesn't matter to the collector.  They will pay altogether too much money for the ugliest neon-puke colored raging sphincter cap because such-n-such made it by hand and now it has uber value.  Like beanie babies and furbys of yesteryear, whether you like it is unimportant.  The point is, it has value.  Right?

4. Cherry needs to step up their game.  The exclusivity of RGB switches, the pencil-on-paper feel of their unlubed switches, and their comparatively high prices are going to start turning against them with the arrival of competent competitors.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Mon, 25 May 2015, 14:23:35
I don't see any reason to have dedicated F keys. much smarter to combine them with number keys imo, waste of space otherwise

The whole space saving argument against Fn keys puzzles me. Saving space on either side of a keyboard I understand, but with the way most people use their desks an extra inch or so of space above their keyboard simply doesn't matter as this is not useful space- if it's used at all, it might be a place to dump some pens or a pen holder.

I find function keys useful because they are commonly accessed. Alt-F4 is a common Windows close command. F8/10/12 is used to access BIOS if you do that sort of stuff. F1 is useful to people who use help. F5 is browser reload.

These functions can be accessed by key combinations, but I find combos less convenient (and sometimes downright frustrating, such as when trying to enter BIOS when it flashes up for a second).

Perhaps this is a candidate for Unpopular Keyboard Opinion: Anything less than TKL is really done for aesthetics rather than functionality or comfort. Even TKL drops a lot of functionality, but I would argue that at least it increases comfort for some people.

it is FARRRRRRRRR better keeping a 60% keyboard than a tkl in your bag
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 25 May 2015, 14:32:21
Okay, something unpopular: The opinion, that lack of keys on more compact keyboards is "crippling" for the sake of aesthetics, is uninformed.

Also i see no reason to get rid of the F keys.
The size difference is negligible, but the extra row means extra weight (switches and keycaps, extra material for the case and PCB/plate; I guess usually 50-100 g total), which matters in case of portable keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Mon, 25 May 2015, 14:33:12
Not sure if unpopular, more like polarizing:

Aesthetics > form, comfort
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Mon, 25 May 2015, 15:12:53
I don't just flip my spacebar. I flip my whole bottom row.

Ha, my entire keyboard is upside down.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FreeChemicals on Mon, 25 May 2015, 15:51:23
I still haven't found a single person that shares my opinion on this one.. Lube on MX blues feels great.

I really enjoy my lubed blue switches, 62g springs. People always complain about noisy blues and I'm like .. wat?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 25 May 2015, 22:07:21
I carry my full sized keyboard around... It's not that heavy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: unoab on Tue, 26 May 2015, 02:04:24
Based on that logic we could make a keyboard with a single row and call it a 10% keyboard.

meet the 14% keyboard (http://www.ebay.com/itm/191557449956) (split though, so does that make it two 7% ones?)  So it seems like someone had already thought along those lines...

Also i see no reason to get rid of the F keys.
The size difference is negligible, but the extra row means extra weight (switches and keycaps, extra material for the case and PCB/plate; I guess usually 50-100 g total), which matters in case of portable keyboards.

If weight really mattered then 60% stainless steel plate mount, milled aluminum keyboards with the thickest keycaps possible might be a bit in the wrong direction anyways...  :rolleyes:

Well and what would a few kilos mean anyway?  Its not like that's space we could be using for survival rations for the day.  I for one would see benefit from the extra exercise.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: unipsykal on Tue, 26 May 2015, 02:24:33
yes, as long as you have a custom controller or control on your firmware you can easily use any key to switch between layouts, no need of a 60% to do that. Also i see no reason to get rid of the F keys. Im more the type that would add even an extra row on top of it.
I don't see any reason to have dedicated F keys. much smarter to combine them with number keys imo, waste of space otherwise

When your other hand is busy using the mouse, you don't want to have to extend another finger all the way across the board just to access another layer with your keyboard hand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 26 May 2015, 04:16:08
The size difference is negligible, but the extra row means extra weight (switches and keycaps, extra material for the case and PCB/plate; I guess usually 50-100 g total), which matters in case of portable keyboards.

Riiight. That's about the weight of a smartphone. If someone is so weak that such a trivial amount of weight is going to matter, they have bigger things to concern themselves with than whether they can carry their perfect keyboard around all day.

To me most, if not all, of the sub-TKL arguments are ex-post justifications. Not sure if I'm using the correct term here, but it's that behavior where someone decides on X out of gut feeling, and then only after that latches on to any reason that would support belief X.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: exit on Tue, 26 May 2015, 04:44:52
Linear? Just get a ****ty rubberdome. No difference at all. Just a waste of money.

Reds are more unlike rubber domes than browns and blues since reds are linear while the others are inconsistent.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 26 May 2015, 05:34:36
Okay, something unpopular: The opinion, that lack of keys on more compact keyboards is "crippling" for the sake of aesthetics, is uninformed.
  • I've noticed (in some research papers) the notion, that touch typing (i.e., orientation on the keyboard entirely by touch, even blindfolded) is inefficient on more than ~40 keys and nearly impossible on more than 50 keys.
  • The current "standard" was made for the ancestors of certain current commercially-available operating systems (or their Human Interface Guidelines respectively). The are other ways of controlling UIs though… Either with pointing devices, or through some extra modality (vi-like controls, GNU Emacs).

Also i see no reason to get rid of the F keys.
The size difference is negligible, but the extra row means extra weight (switches and keycaps, extra material for the case and PCB/plate; I guess usually 50-100 g total), which matters in case of portable keyboards.

IMHO, this is entirely dependent on previous experience and the effort you're willing to expend.

If you're used a "normal" full size layout, a TKL is about the best compromise between size and practical use. The dedicated arrow keys, edit cluster and F keys can make a big difference to productivity if they're what you're used to using.

If you've never spent too much time on a normal full size board, or don't need to use arrows, edit keys or F keys a lot, (or are willing to "unlearn" normal typing habits and learn new ones) a 60% or smaller can be more efficient AND take less space. You can do everything a full size board can do on a 40%, just takes a little getting used to when to press the layer keys.

IMO, the attraction of 60% is a combination of size and aesthetics. The weight has never been a factor for me.

With a little effort and time taken to get used to it, I believe a board like the JD45 (or the custom ergo in my avatar or the 40 key Portable Writers board) can actually be the most efficient to use.

tldr: Lazy = use a TKL
Not lazy = get a JD45
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Tue, 26 May 2015, 05:41:52
60% is the best.
(http://i.imgur.com/exMQ950.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 26 May 2015, 06:37:39
60% is the best.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/exMQ950.gif)

oh I'm sorry, I thought we were in the Unpopular Opinions thread. My mistake
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: unipsykal on Tue, 26 May 2015, 06:53:24
60% is the best.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/exMQ950.gif)

oh I'm sorry, I thought we were in the Unpopular Opinions thread. My mistake

I came here expecting opinions about unpopular keyboards...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Tue, 26 May 2015, 06:56:50
60% is the best.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/exMQ950.gif)

oh I'm sorry, I thought we were in the Unpopular Opinions thread. My mistake
Wait this isn't the unpopular-popular but pretending it's unpopular opinion thread?

My bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 May 2015, 12:03:10
60% is the best.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/exMQ950.gif)

oh I'm sorry, I thought we were in the Unpopular Opinions thread. My mistake
Wait this isn't the unpopular-popular but pretending it's unpopular opinion thread?

My bad.

To make both of you happy, I'll marry an unpopular opinion to a popular opinion.

All Topre boards suck except the HHKB.  Realforce, FC660C, and Novatouch all feel like crap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 26 May 2015, 12:14:33
I don't know if anyone other than Intelli has an opinion on this, but I think the Kailh RGBs are really really nice.

A thousand times better than the Cherry RGBs I saw on the Corsair board last year, nowhere near as washed out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 26 May 2015, 12:46:36
I don't know if anyone other than Intelli has an opinion on this, but I think the Kailh RGBs are really really nice.

A thousand times better than the Cherry RGBs I saw on the Corsair board last year, nowhere near as washed out.

I agree. Sitting in front of Kailh RGBs as we speak.  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 26 May 2015, 13:08:29
I don't know if anyone other than Intelli has an opinion on this, but I think the Kailh RGBs are really really nice.

A thousand times better than the Cherry RGBs I saw on the Corsair board last year, nowhere near as washed out.

I agree. Sitting in front of Kailh RGBs as we speak.  :cool:

Nice :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 27 May 2015, 00:08:37
I like dcs profile.
I like the legend used on lily set. (wyse legend?)
I like thin pbt.
I like sp.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 27 May 2015, 01:05:11
I like dcs profile.
I like the legend used on lily set. (wyse legend?)
I like thin pbt.
I like sp.

How about the bottom row angle and sharp-edged DCS spacebar? If you use a low-ish board angle (which is better for ergonomic reasons), I find my thumb hitting the spacebar at a very uncomfortable angle on DCS. Cherry is MUCH better, SA is the best (symmetrical) :)

Do you by any chance happen to like Blues? I think thin PBT matches well to Blues (enhances the best aspects of the click), but I don't like either of them very much myself.

I like shiny ABS keycaps (as long as they're heavy enough) :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 27 May 2015, 01:29:14
I like dcs profile.
I like the legend used on lily set. (wyse legend?)
I like thin pbt.
I like sp.

How about the bottom row angle and sharp-edged DCS spacebar? If you use a low-ish board angle (which is better for ergonomic reasons), I find my thumb hitting the spacebar at a very uncomfortable angle on DCS. Cherry is MUCH better, SA is the best (symmetrical) :)

Do you by any chance happen to like Blues? I think thin PBT matches well to Blues (enhances the best aspects of the click), but I don't like either of them very much myself.

I like shiny ABS keycaps (as long as they're heavy enough) :)

My keyboard is 12 degree, so it is very comfortable for me to use DCS.  I always feel strange to use SA  :-[
I don't hate blue, but I don't prefer it.  But I find thin abs match pretty well to blue and clear
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: radio_killah on Wed, 27 May 2015, 01:30:25
The hhkb is so perfect to type on that it is boring.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 27 May 2015, 01:39:14
I like dcs profile.
I like the legend used on lily set. (wyse legend?)
I like thin pbt.
I like sp.

How about the bottom row angle and sharp-edged DCS spacebar? If you use a low-ish board angle (which is better for ergonomic reasons), I find my thumb hitting the spacebar at a very uncomfortable angle on DCS. Cherry is MUCH better, SA is the best (symmetrical) :)

Do you by any chance happen to like Blues? I think thin PBT matches well to Blues (enhances the best aspects of the click), but I don't like either of them very much myself.

I like shiny ABS keycaps (as long as they're heavy enough) :)

My keyboard is 12 degree, so it is very comfortable for me to use DCS.  I always feel strange to use SA  :-[
I don't hate blue, but I don't prefer it.  But I find thin abs match pretty well to blue and clear

Y, 12 degrees is too high to use with SA. SA works best on really flat boards.

Here's an opinion: Switch stickers are essential for premium feel. Without them, the stems are too loose / wobbly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sencha on Wed, 27 May 2015, 02:09:17
I can't stand the HHKB space bar. In the six models I've used they just feel garbage to me.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: unipsykal on Wed, 27 May 2015, 02:45:31
I hate it when people lift the rear keyboard stands. Keyboards are meant to be flat on the table.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Wed, 27 May 2015, 03:00:16
I hate it when people lift the rear keyboard stands. Keyboards are meant to be flat on the table.

dat truth
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Wed, 27 May 2015, 03:28:34
I may be committing blasphemy, but I think I found a better layout than HHKB's.

It's an HHKB with an integrated modified numpad on the left.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 27 May 2015, 07:13:24
topper is overrated?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 27 May 2015, 07:55:11
All Topre boards suck except the HHKB.  Realforce, FC660C, and Novatouch all feel like crap.

Why do you want me to be sad?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 27 May 2015, 07:56:34
All Topre boards suck except the HHKB.  Realforce, FC660C, and Novatouch all feel like crap.

Why do you want me to be sad?
if its any consolation i dont want u sad
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 27 May 2015, 12:52:09
All Topre boards suck except the HHKB.  Realforce, FC660C, and Novatouch all feel like crap.

Why do you want me to be sad?

Because through sorrow comes growth and understanding.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Neo.X on Wed, 27 May 2015, 14:36:19
Everything related to mechanical keyboard is OVERPRICED!!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: radio_killah on Wed, 27 May 2015, 15:19:17
Ortholinear keyboards are stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Wed, 27 May 2015, 15:25:12
Ortholinear keyboards are stupid.


Oh, sure, if you have crooked fingers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 27 May 2015, 17:26:09
60% is the best.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/exMQ950.gif)

oh I'm sorry, I thought we were in the Unpopular Opinions thread. My mistake
Wait this isn't the unpopular-popular but pretending it's unpopular opinion thread?

My bad.

To make both of you happy, I'll marry an unpopular opinion to a popular opinion.

All Topre boards suck except the HHKB.  Realforce, FC660C, and Novatouch all feel like crap.


im about to back hand you back to kindergarden son.

55g RF is the greatest feeling topre, ever. no questions asked. no arguments.

but hhkb has best layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Wed, 27 May 2015, 17:30:04
im about to back hand you back to kindergarden son.

55g RF is the greatest feeling topre, ever. no questions asked. no arguments.

but hhkb has best layout.

#Fact
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 27 May 2015, 20:30:51
im about to back hand you back to kindergarden son.

55g RF is the greatest feeling topre, ever. no questions asked. no arguments.

but hhkb has best layout.

55g Realforce is like a kid.  You have it, so you have to love it, but 90% of it is pain and talking back.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: strafe on Wed, 27 May 2015, 21:07:56
Stock cherry blacks with thin keycaps (SP DCS or Tai-Hao) is the best for gaming.

Shiny cherry keycaps feel nice to type on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 27 May 2015, 21:15:28
thinking a switch is "best for gaming" is stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 27 May 2015, 21:21:26
thinking a switch is "best for gaming" is stupid.

How is that unpopular?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 27 May 2015, 21:22:52
thinking a switch is "best for gaming" is stupid.

How is that unpopular?

well "gaming switch" is constantly echo'd here.

55g rf > every single switch ever.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Wed, 27 May 2015, 21:23:30
artisan caps (mainly of the BB and CC variety) have a net negative effect on the community
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 27 May 2015, 21:27:21
artisan caps (mainly of the BB and CC variety) have a net negative effect on the community

nope, the collectors do. if it wasn't artisans it would be something else.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Wed, 27 May 2015, 22:59:50
thinking a switch is "best for gaming" is stupid.

How is that unpopular?

well "gaming switch" is constantly echo'd here.

55g rf > every single switch ever.
demik, you gotta learn.

55g hhkb > every single switch ever
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Thu, 28 May 2015, 00:05:42
artisan caps (mainly of the BB and CC variety) have a net negative effect on the community

nope, the collectors do. if it wasn't artisans it would be something else.

I kinda wish they'd just branch that crap off into some other forum so I wouldn't have to look at pictures of otherwise beautifully made keyboards with what looks like chewed up gummy bears mashed all over them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Thu, 28 May 2015, 00:26:49
HHKB layout is awful.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hoz on Thu, 28 May 2015, 01:03:53
HHKB Keyboards are hardly worth even the second hand prices if it doesnt include extras.

40% are exactly as useful as any 60% board, even the designs using normal sized spacebars.
considering theyre all reprogrammable and most people should have the brain capacity to adjust, even though it might take a little while for those who are less used to mix things up and constantly put new things into their muscle memory. (playing any kind of instrument etc)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 28 May 2015, 02:15:47
HHKB Keyboards are hardly worth even the second hand prices if it doesnt include extras.

40% are exactly as useful as any 60% board, even the designs using normal sized spacebars.
considering theyre all reprogrammable and most people should have the brain capacity to adjust, even though it might take a little while for those who are less used to mix things up and constantly put new things into their muscle memory. (playing any kind of instrument etc)

Agreed on the HHKB.

I beg to differ (sort of) on that 40%. The punctuation / symbols on the top row are often really ingrained in your muscle memory (especially if you use them every day for coding, like I do), so putting those behind a Layer key takes some getting used to and many are not willing to put the effort in.

That said, I think a very well-designed 40% board (like the JD45 with smaller / split spacebar) can become even more efficient and useful than a 60% if you do take the time to adjust to it. And it is worth taking the time, IMHO, typing on a 40% can be very liberating. It's surprising how few keys you really need for most typing tasks. Numbers and symbols (besides ,. and ') aren't used as often as some may think. A key factor in making a 40% board usable is good Fn / Layer key placement. That's why I think a split space is important, you can use your non-space thumb for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tufty on Thu, 28 May 2015, 09:41:11
thinking a switch is "best for gaming" is stupid.
Worrying about which switch is "best for gaming" even more so.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: loki993 on Thu, 28 May 2015, 10:16:26
MX Clears are overratted and honestly I don't even like them very much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 28 May 2015, 10:18:16
MX Clears are overratted and honestly I don't even like them very much.

Like almost all the other mx switches, they need modding to feel great.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hoz on Thu, 28 May 2015, 10:23:38
HHKB Keyboards are hardly worth even the second hand prices if it doesnt include extras.

40% are exactly as useful as any 60% board, even the designs using normal sized spacebars.
considering theyre all reprogrammable and most people should have the brain capacity to adjust, even though it might take a little while for those who are less used to mix things up and constantly put new things into their muscle memory. (playing any kind of instrument etc)

Agreed on the HHKB.

I beg to differ (sort of) on that 40%. The punctuation / symbols on the top row are often really ingrained in your muscle memory (especially if you use them every day for coding, like I do), so putting those behind a Layer key takes some getting used to and many are not willing to put the effort in.

That said, I think a very well-designed 40% board (like the JD45 with smaller / split spacebar) can become even more efficient and useful than a 60% if you do take the time to adjust to it. And it is worth taking the time, IMHO, typing on a 40% can be very liberating. It's surprising how few keys you really need for most typing tasks. Numbers and symbols (besides ,. and ') aren't used as often as some may think. A key factor in making a 40% board usable is good Fn / Layer key placement. That's why I think a split space is important, you can use your non-space thumb for it.

yeah, and there we got exactly what's bothering me, the general belief one can be so used doing things a certain way it would be "hard" to muscle memorize even the addition of a fn-key to something you already need to press multiple keys to do, number row symbols are still at the top row, in order on a 40%...

ah, on topic, it really bothers me that matias quiet clickys are not really clickys, and that they dont really sit tight in the infinity plate, putting stress on the solders while pulling caps or pop right open ****ing up the leafs, if the alps stem on the SP DSA doesn´t break first...
and it bothers me that they´re all soldered now when their next destination is the trashcan, in favor of some gateron blues.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: loki993 on Thu, 28 May 2015, 10:24:38
MX Clears are overratted and honestly I don't even like them very much.

Like almost all the other mx switches, they need modding to feel great.

Thats what I figure problem is modding them is a PITA when most of the keyboards with them are plate mount.  When I got my keyboards I though it would be fairly easy to mod them, if you don't solder its not. I guess I just need to bite the bullet and get a soldering kit or something.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 29 May 2015, 03:21:20
HHKB Keyboards are hardly worth even the second hand prices if it doesnt include extras.

40% are exactly as useful as any 60% board, even the designs using normal sized spacebars.
considering theyre all reprogrammable and most people should have the brain capacity to adjust, even though it might take a little while for those who are less used to mix things up and constantly put new things into their muscle memory. (playing any kind of instrument etc)

Agreed on the HHKB.

I beg to differ (sort of) on that 40%. The punctuation / symbols on the top row are often really ingrained in your muscle memory (especially if you use them every day for coding, like I do), so putting those behind a Layer key takes some getting used to and many are not willing to put the effort in.

That said, I think a very well-designed 40% board (like the JD45 with smaller / split spacebar) can become even more efficient and useful than a 60% if you do take the time to adjust to it. And it is worth taking the time, IMHO, typing on a 40% can be very liberating. It's surprising how few keys you really need for most typing tasks. Numbers and symbols (besides ,. and ') aren't used as often as some may think. A key factor in making a 40% board usable is good Fn / Layer key placement. That's why I think a split space is important, you can use your non-space thumb for it.

yeah, and there we got exactly what's bothering me, the general belief one can be so used doing things a certain way it would be "hard" to muscle memorize even the addition of a fn-key to something you already need to press multiple keys to do, number row symbols are still at the top row, in order on a 40%...

ah, on topic, it really bothers me that matias quiet clickys are not really clickys, and that they dont really sit tight in the infinity plate, putting stress on the solders while pulling caps or pop right open ****ing up the leafs, if the alps stem on the SP DSA doesn´t break first...
and it bothers me that they´re all soldered now when their next destination is the trashcan, in favor of some gateron blues.

Agreed.

Good choice with the Gateron Blues. Lots more keycap options, then, too :D

MX Clears are overratted and honestly I don't even like them very much.

Like almost all the other mx switches, they need modding to feel great.

Thats what I figure problem is modding them is a PITA when most of the keyboards with them are plate mount.  When I got my keyboards I though it would be fairly easy to mod them, if you don't solder its not. I guess I just need to bite the bullet and get a soldering kit or something.

I'm just finishing up a new 60% build with Clears and it really is a PITA to do all the modding required (trampolines, 62g springs, stickers, shaved sliders), but once they're done they're the best an MX switch can ever be and only get better with use. Leaving out just one mod makes them significantly worse, though.

I use loose Clears and PCB's for my builds because it removes the desoldering step from the build.

I wish Gateron made ErgoClears (62-65g springs, large tactile bump).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hj-s on Fri, 29 May 2015, 04:42:03
40% are exactly as useful as any 60% board, even the designs using normal sized spacebars.
Not for countries where on " [ ] ' " keys are often using symbols, like cyrillic in Russia.  We have " х ъ э " on that keys. And i want them type like normal keys, not FN+something.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 29 May 2015, 07:08:15
40% are exactly as useful as any 60% board, even the designs using normal sized spacebars.
Not for countries where on " [ ] ' " keys are often using symbols, like cyrillic in Russia.  We have " х ъ э " on that keys. And i want them type like normal keys, not FN+something.

JD45: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62641.msg1468124#msg1468124

Enough for many languages (like the Nordic ones), although some probably still use too many characters to fit. Ideally you want to keep ',. on the main layer, too. ' is not as common as some other symbols such as ( and ), but I have found it interrupts the typing flow too much having it on another layer as I consider it part of the word I'm typing.

All that punctuation reminds me of this:

For Finnish I find it acceptable to move ,. and å to a layer and put öä in place of ,. on my 40% layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/5ddf61c58df576abb835b0ad01756d46

English version for comparison: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/df0101b82800716a5200da363609f0cf

Upper characters are on the Fn layer, actuated with the thumb key (you can select which one is space, which one is Fn).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hj-s on Fri, 29 May 2015, 07:56:34
Quote
JD45: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62641.msg1468124#msg1468124
Thank for link! Layout seems to me quite good for me.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asgeirtj on Fri, 29 May 2015, 16:37:52


I'm just finishing up a new 60% build with Clears and it really is a PITA to do all the modding required (trampolines, 62g springs, stickers, shaved sliders), but once they're done they're the best an MX switch can ever be and only get better with use. Leaving out just one mod makes them significantly worse, though.

I use loose Clears and PCB's for my builds because it removes the desoldering step from the build.

I wish Gateron made ErgoClears (62-65g springs, large tactile bump).

Do you actually shave the sliders of the switch?  How easy is it to do and does it have a big difference and is there any guide to do it?.  What are loose clears and pcbs and how does it remove desoldering steps?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 29 May 2015, 18:04:34
PCB mount is w/ no plate is superior to any plate mounts in my opinion, easier switch access, easy stabilizer access, and I like the feel more, its softer
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hoz on Fri, 29 May 2015, 19:12:00
40% are exactly as useful as any 60% board, even the designs using normal sized spacebars.
Not for countries where on " [ ] ' " keys are often using symbols, like cyrillic in Russia.  We have " х ъ э " on that keys. And i want them type like normal keys, not FN+something.

and as i stated earlier, im swedish and have our widely used åäö in a fn layer, it didnt take me long to memorize those in a fn layer, and my opinion is that it most likely wouldnt for other either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: paicrai on Fri, 29 May 2015, 20:30:40
qfr is decent
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 29 May 2015, 20:47:13
qfr is decent

judging by the subforum dedicated to the board, dunno if it qualifies as unpopular.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 30 May 2015, 12:22:50
qfr is decent

judging by the subforum dedicated to the board, dunno if it qualifies as unpopular.  :p
OTOH if he means that it's ONLY decent, then it might be quite unpopular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nephiel on Sun, 07 June 2015, 08:50:12
On-screen keyboards are the dumbest, most inefficient input method ever to be used on a smartphone. The keys are tiny. You can't touch-type, since you can't feel them. You're forced to look at the typing area to locate them.

But it's the default input method on nearly every smartphone out there.

The Graffiti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_%28Palm_OS%29) input method from the venerable Palm PDAs works a lot better on a portable touchscreen. It just makes sense. Once learned, you don't even need to look at the screen. You just write.

The method is 20 years old and it still blows out of the water any other input method or handwriting recognition software available today.

Now the Graffiti rights belong to a company known as Access Co., who is just letting it die. They have an app for Android, but it hasn't been updated since 2011 and is not easy to make it work on newer devices. It's a shame.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 07 June 2015, 09:46:05
To he fair, I type almost as fast on Swype as I do on a standard keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Sun, 07 June 2015, 14:40:59
I like the Kailh switches. They are nice.

My first mechanical purchase was a Thermaltake Tt Sport Poseidon ZX (TenKeyLess) with Kaihl Blues & Blue LEDs
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Sun, 07 June 2015, 14:56:21
To he fair, I type almost as fast on Swype as I do on a standard keyboard.

Same. I'm a bit slower on Swype, but I can type with it rather quickly.

Swype really isn't functioning as a standard on-screen board though, except for stuff you haven't added to your dictionary yet and have to tap in.

The Apple kind where you have to tap each individual character is godawful and unusable.

Then again, some people just really do not comprehend Swype and similar input systems for whatever reason. Or insist on slow methods like voice. My dad drives me crazy slooowly dictating things to the phone, having to correct errors all the time, getting grumpy when someone dares say something during phone text time, it's inane. Your default keyboard has a swipe function, you have a stylus, you're not driving or anything like that, we're watching TV for the love of Christ, use text input!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 08 June 2015, 07:20:29
All winkeys except the Win95 ones look trash IMO.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Mon, 08 June 2015, 07:25:16
All winkeys except the Win95 ones look trash IMO.

This isn't unpopular, this is fact.

Win7 win keys are OKish, but Win8? Get that **** off my board what's wrong with you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 08 June 2015, 07:50:07
On-screen keyboards are the dumbest, most inefficient input method ever to be used on a smartphone.

The Graffiti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_%28Palm_OS%29) input method from the venerable Palm PDAs works a lot better

I always hated Graffiti when I had a PDA because so many of the letters would have required re-learning. I have always made the crosses of "Ts" first, then brought the vertical stroke downward through it. That sort of thing always produced errors.

Besides, swirling your finger around is the equivalent of "several keystrokes" in time.

But I agree that I hate fingering a glass screen. Between various factors, which I assume to be the size and clumsiness of my fingertips, the natural capacitance of my skin, and/or whatever else, they simply never work properly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Jokrik on Mon, 08 June 2015, 08:50:15
I can't get my fingers on linear switch #why

And I don't fancy 60% at all #why
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Mon, 08 June 2015, 08:55:22
All winkeys except the Win95 ones look trash IMO.

Seems like a popular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 08 June 2015, 09:03:31
All winkeys except the Win95 ones look trash IMO.

Seems like a popular opinion.

In that case Win95 legend is ****.  Win 7 legend is better.

In fact, the only good retro Windows logo is the 1.0 logo.  Everything until Win 7 sucked.

(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 08 June 2015, 09:12:19
Well I suppose that I hold the unpopular opinion of liking the Win8 logo. It actually looks like a window and not a flag flying in the wind.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MAR82 on Mon, 08 June 2015, 09:19:35
All winkeys except the Win95 ones look trash IMO.

Seems like a popular opinion.

In that case Win95 legend is ****.  Win 7 legend is better.

In fact, the only good retro Windows logo is the 1.0 logo.  Everything until Win 7 sucked.

Show Image
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)


I'm working on a keyset that should use that old Window 1.0 logo
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71629.0

I really think that old logo looks cool and have never seen it on a keyboard, so I would love it if my set is the first to use it
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 08 June 2015, 10:09:12
All winkeys except the Win95 ones look trash IMO.

Seems like a popular opinion.

In that case Win95 legend is ****.  Win 7 legend is better.

In fact, the only good retro Windows logo is the 1.0 logo.  Everything until Win 7 sucked.

Show Image
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)

Too round for my taste.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 08 June 2015, 12:16:04
All winkeys except the Win95 ones look trash IMO.

Seems like a popular opinion.

In that case Win95 legend is ****.  Win 7 legend is better.

In fact, the only good retro Windows logo is the 1.0 logo.  Everything until Win 7 sucked.

Show Image
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)

Too round for my taste.

Still dramatically better than 95.  Seriously, what's up with the squiggle and the tail?  And why is the tail a repeat of the two squares in front of it?  It's just tacky and bad design.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 08 June 2015, 12:26:39

Still dramatically better than 95.  Seriously, what's up with the squiggle and the tail?  And why is the tail a repeat of the two squares in front of it?  It's just tacky and bad design.

It was the age of new ideas and the 3-D aspect (if you remember) of Windows.  The new Windows 95 screensaver had that image floating like a waving flag and it was "super cool" at the time.  The logo stuck with the "Flying Windows".  I would call it "OK".  Windows, I believe up to the time of XP, had the "Flying Windows" screensaver. 

Edit: In the screensaver options you would select the 3D Flying Objects Screensaver.  Then you selected "Windows Logo"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 08 June 2015, 12:34:54
Flying Windows looked a lot more like a kite than a window, but it was moderately attractive, if stupid.

The whole curve concept makes no sense, anyway, but I thought that the XP/7 version was the most handsome.

8 looks like a bleached-out flag from an unidentified country.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 08 June 2015, 12:35:40
Flying Windows looked a lot more like a kite than a window, but it was moderately attractive, if stupid.

The whole curve concept makes no sense, anyway, but I thought that the XP/7 version was the most handsome.

8 looks like a bleached-out flag from an unidentified country.
I can do WIN xp as well
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Mon, 08 June 2015, 12:37:56
How about no Windows logo at all? >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Mon, 08 June 2015, 12:39:56
Blanks are always stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vindaon on Mon, 08 June 2015, 12:54:31
I like text legends for the windows, preferably Super
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JaccoW on Mon, 08 June 2015, 12:54:47
How about no Windows logo at all? >:D

Blanks are always stupid.
These are great out of context. XD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 08 June 2015, 18:43:55
RGB backlighting makes your keyboard look like its a toy meant for a 12 year old
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Mon, 08 June 2015, 18:51:49
Topres are not much better than the best rubber domes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 08 June 2015, 20:58:05
Ortholinear keyboards are stupid.
Oh, sure, if you have crooked fingers.
Nah, pretty much stupid no matter who you are. Hands are not shaped like bricks.

To be generous, they’re at best about the same as standard QWERTY/Sholes layout for an experienced expert to type on (personally I suspect they’re marginally worse even after long experience), but they need to be re-learned from scratch for anyone used to a standard keyboard.

Ortholinear keyboards: All the discomfort, inaccuracy, and RSI potential of a regular keyboard, none of the advantageous network effects. Yay!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Mon, 08 June 2015, 21:17:07
White & Light Grey classic IBM M two toned key cap layout is superior to all others.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 08 June 2015, 21:19:04
White & Light Grey classic IBM M two toned key cap layout is superior to all others.

The official names of the colors are "pearl" and "pebble"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 08 June 2015, 21:20:18
White & Light Grey classic IBM M two toned key cap layout is superior to all others.
Wait until you head about granite! :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 08 June 2015, 21:21:42
I like text legends for the windows, preferably Super
I prefer the logo of the Galactic Empire from Star Wars on the Windows key (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71995), because Microsoft is the Evil Empire. ;)

Unpopular keyboard opinion: Almost all key group buys are too expensive. (at least for my budget :( )
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 09 June 2015, 22:10:07
Keyboard is boring.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Tue, 09 June 2015, 22:14:36
Topres are not much better than the best rubber domes.

Realforce 104 = ANSI QSenn DT35
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Tue, 09 June 2015, 22:17:02
Keyboard is boring.
Haha, this is the perfect thread for you :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Wed, 10 June 2015, 17:56:09
NMB RT6856TW is superior to both the Dell QuietKey RT7D5JTW and the IBM KB-8923
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Wed, 10 June 2015, 18:09:41
I generally dont care for keyboards with goofy media & internet/productivity keys. Although there are some that arent so bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JaccoW on Wed, 10 June 2015, 18:15:54
I like text legends for the windows, preferably Super
I prefer the logo of the Galactic Empire from Star Wars on the Windows key (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71995), because Microsoft is the Evil Empire. ;)

Unpopular keyboard opinion: Almost all key group buys are too expensive. (at least for my budget :( )
One can say that no matter how evil Microsoft might have been in the 90's, Google nowadays is even worse.
And Apple has a very similar tendency.

In fact, if you want a non-evil and very innovative big company, Microsoft is where it's at.

But that is a discussion for another thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 10 June 2015, 19:14:43
I generally dont care for keyboards with goofy media & internet/productivity keys. Although there are some that arent so bad.

I agree. The multimedia keys on the Ducky Shine 3, for example, looks fine to me. On the other hand, this thing is just nasty.

(http://i.imgur.com/dTTfRlY.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 10 June 2015, 22:00:47
I generally dont care for keyboards with goofy media & internet/productivity keys. Although there are some that arent so bad.

I agree. The multimedia keys on the Ducky Shine 3, for example, looks fine to me. On the other hand, this thing is just nasty.

Show Image
(http://store.madcatz.com/Mad-Catz-STRIKE7-0001-lg.jpg)

oh christ
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Wed, 10 June 2015, 22:11:14
I generally dont care for keyboards with goofy media & internet/productivity keys. Although there are some that arent so bad.

I agree. The multimedia keys on the Ducky Shine 3, for example, looks fine to me. On the other hand, this thing is just nasty.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/dTTfRlY.png)


That thing is horrendous!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eszett on Thu, 11 June 2015, 00:01:33
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/dTTfRlY.png)

Sometimes I think people confuse "mech keyboards" with "mecha keyboards": 
[attach=1]
And as if this were not enough, they combine "mecha keyboards" with "Master of the Universe keycaps" *facepalm*  :D
[attach=2]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 11 June 2015, 09:49:39
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/dTTfRlY.png)

Sometimes I think people confuse "mech keyboards" with "mecha keyboards": 
(Attachment Link)
And as if this were not enough, they combine "mecha keyboards" with "Master of the Universe keycaps" *facepalm*  :D
(Attachment Link)

I don't know why you're complaining.  I would buy that second toy in heartbeat.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Thu, 11 June 2015, 17:10:25
I like clone & offbrand keyboard switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 11 June 2015, 18:57:49
I like clone & offbrand keyboard switches.

how is this unpopular?

huge gateron circlejerk on here.

matter of fact, all of GH is okay with copying cherry.

just dont touch their artisans, then copying becomes a problem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Thu, 11 June 2015, 19:38:53
I like clone & offbrand keyboard switches.

how is this unpopular?

huge gateron circlejerk on here.

matter of fact, all of GH is okay with copying cherry.

just dont touch their artisans, then copying becomes a problem.


It depends on how good the copy is.
(http://data1.whicdn.com/images/26634779/large.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 11 June 2015, 21:03:39
I generally dont care for keyboards with goofy media & internet/productivity keys. Although there are some that arent so bad.

I agree. The multimedia keys on the Ducky Shine 3, for example, looks fine to me. On the other hand, this thing is just nasty.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/dTTfRlY.png)


That keyboard is for l33t hackzors only
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Thu, 11 June 2015, 23:21:19
^At least that keyboard has a standard bottom row.

Corsair/MaxKeyboards really pisses me off with that. There's just no reason for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 11 June 2015, 23:22:23
^At least that keyboard has a standard bottom row.

Corsair/MaxKeyboards really pisses me off with that. There's just no reason for it.
ugh gaming performance obviously
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Thu, 11 June 2015, 23:24:57
I like clone & offbrand keyboard switches.

how is this unpopular?

huge gateron circlejerk on here.

matter of fact, all of GH is okay with copying cherry.

just dont touch their artisans, then copying becomes a problem.

Well it's not a like for like copy. Gateron's feel a lot different than Cherry, and their milky clear housing is very different as well. Cherry doesn't even sell a retail switch that is translucent, you have to essentially desolder an RGB keyboard. On top of that, only certain switches are available in translucent form.

Stock Cherry's IMO aren't even that nice without modification, and stock Gaterons feel much smoother.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 12 June 2015, 01:53:30
Corsair/MaxKeyboards really pisses me off with that. There's just no reason for it.

I refuse to buy anything Corsair and whenever I see a computer with a bunch of Corsair **** in it (because, let's be honest, a lot of their stuff is not that great) I always think under-researched and over-paid.  That and Corsair does so much vendor lock in that it pisses me off.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 12 June 2015, 01:54:35
Corsair/MaxKeyboards really pisses me off with that. There's just no reason for it.

I refuse to buy anything Corsair and whenever I see a computer with a bunch of Corsair **** in it (because, let's be honest, a lot of their stuff is not that great) I always think under-researched and over-paid.  That and Corsair does so much vendor lock in that it pisses me off.

Their PSU are great.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 12 June 2015, 02:10:44
Corsair/MaxKeyboards really pisses me off with that. There's just no reason for it.

I refuse to buy anything Corsair and whenever I see a computer with a bunch of Corsair **** in it (because, let's be honest, a lot of their stuff is not that great) I always think under-researched and over-paid.  That and Corsair does so much vendor lock in that it pisses me off.


Their PSU are great.

Their PSUs are usually identical to cheaper options while costing more.  Seriously, look at brands like XFX or check out some of the equally awesome and cheaper SuperFlower made PSUs.  For example, lets look around 500w, one of the most popular wattages for your average consumer.  The EVGA Supernova (https://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-power-supply-220gs0550v1), a good Gold rated PSU (http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-and-Cooling/EVGA-SuperNOVA-550GS-and-650GS-Gold-PSU-Review), is $20 cheaper than the RM650 (https://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-power-supply-rm550), an equally good PSU (http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-and-Cooling/Corsair-RM-Series-550W-Power-Supply-Review). They do sometimes come on sale at a great price, but I usually see better options for less...at least if you keep your eyes open. 

Their budget PSUs are junk and their high end ones with Link cause more problems than their worth.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 12 June 2015, 02:27:34
Yeah all of their components are overpriced. Most of their products are good (save for the cheap junk like their CX line of PSUs) but it makes me cry when I see completed builds using, say, 32GB of Corsair Dominator. Whenever I say someone overspent on the Corsair, they always retort "But the Corsair Dominator is the best!". No, RAM is RAM, and Corsair doesn't even manufacture it, it's made by another company and Corsair slaps their logo on it just like their power supplies and anything else. Just because it is more expensive than everything else doesn't make it the best.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Fri, 12 June 2015, 03:39:06
Corsair/MaxKeyboards really pisses me off with that. There's just no reason for it.

I refuse to buy anything Corsair and whenever I see a computer with a bunch of Corsair **** in it (because, let's be honest, a lot of their stuff is not that great) I always think under-researched and over-paid.  That and Corsair does so much vendor lock in that it pisses me off.


Their PSU are great.

Their PSUs are usually identical to cheaper options while costing more.  Seriously, look at brands like XFX or check out some of the equally awesome and cheaper SuperFlower made PSUs.  For example, lets look around 500w, one of the most popular wattages for your average consumer.  The EVGA Supernova (https://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-power-supply-220gs0550v1), a good Gold rated PSU (http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-and-Cooling/EVGA-SuperNOVA-550GS-and-650GS-Gold-PSU-Review), is $20 cheaper than the RM650 (https://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-power-supply-rm550), an equally good PSU (http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-and-Cooling/Corsair-RM-Series-550W-Power-Supply-Review). They do sometimes come on sale at a great price, but I usually see better options for less...at least if you keep your eyes open. 

Their budget PSUs are junk and their high end ones with Link cause more problems than their worth.

Nobody in their right minds would even bother using the abomination of software that is Corsair link - that being said though the AX1500i is probably one of the best power supplies out there at the moment in terms of clean power delivery. I don't know anyone out there though there though that needs that much wattage (Maybe if you run like 4 290x's?)

INB4 Corsair fanboi - I use a Coolermaster V1000  :)

But Corsair keyboards are an eyesore
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: janvkn on Fri, 12 June 2015, 04:09:43
The CoolerMaster Novatouch is rubbish and the biggest disappointment of all the mechs I have ever bought. It's nothing like the "RealForce with mx compatible stems" that I imagined it to be. The case feels shoddy and hollow and the hard plastic really feels cheap. Bottoming out feels plasticky instead of solid, and it rattles and makes noise in a bad way.

I think I typed on it for about an hour, tried a few keycap sets on it, none of which made it better, then put it back in its box and gifted it to my brother because I didn't want to go through the hassle of putting it up for sale. Back to Realforce, Filco and IBM BS for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 12 June 2015, 08:45:48
Yeah all of their components are overpriced. Most of their products are good (save for the cheap junk like their CX line of PSUs) but it makes me cry when I see completed builds using, say, 32GB of Corsair Dominator. Whenever I say someone overspent on the Corsair, they always retort "But the Corsair Dominator is the best!". No, RAM is RAM, and Corsair doesn't even manufacture it, it's made by another company and Corsair slaps their logo on it just like their power supplies and anything else. Just because it is more expensive than everything else doesn't make it the best.

I'd disagree on RAM is RAM, but yeah, Corsair RAM is overpriced.  It has one of the highest RMA rates for DOA and not meeting stated speed and it does not typically overclock well unless you buy the super extensive high end stuff.  G.Skill iuses better ICs that overclock better. 

And their RAM is a perfect example of vendor lock in.  They design it with tall heatspreaders forcing you to get a CLC.


The CoolerMaster Novatouch is rubbish and the biggest disappointment of all the mechs I have ever bought. It's nothing like the "RealForce with mx compatible stems" that I imagined it to be. The case feels shoddy and hollow and the hard plastic really feels cheap. Bottoming out feels plasticky instead of solid, and it rattles and makes noise in a bad way.

I think I typed on it for about an hour, tried a few keycap sets on it, none of which made it better, then put it back in its box and gifted it to my brother because I didn't want to go through the hassle of putting it up for sale. Back to Realforce, Filco and IBM BS for me.

I really disliked it as well.  Then again, I've hated every Topre board I've tried except the HHKB and HHKB is love.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 12 June 2015, 08:57:22
Corsair greatest company ever. I'm going to name my first born corsair just for you nubs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 12 June 2015, 09:04:33
Corsair greatest company ever. I'm going to name my first born corsair just for you nubs.

Sorry demik, you're over 25 with no kids.  That means you're consigned to creepy uncle status.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fire Brand on Fri, 12 June 2015, 09:08:57
HHKB what does everyone see in it? To me the average person that granted has not used topre it looks like a overpriced white poker with a goofy layout that just plain makes no sense to me, and the HHKB circle jerk is real I always feel that genuinely and no word of a lie now that the only reason people say they are good is to make them selves feel better for buying something so expensive :(

I'm sorry HHKB it's not me... It's you :c


Then again I'll probs buy a HHKB in a year of so :/
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 12 June 2015, 09:09:17
Corsair greatest company ever. I'm going to name my first born corsair just for you nubs.

Sorry demik, you're over 25 with no kids.  That means you're consigned to creepy uncle status.
That's all I aspire to be!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 12 June 2015, 09:10:44
I thought the same as you on the HHKB....then someone loaned me their Type-S and love was born. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 12 June 2015, 09:15:35
HHKB what does everyone see in it? To me the average person that granted has not used topre it looks like a overpriced white poker with a goofy layout that just plain makes no sense to me, and the HHKB circle jerk is real I always feel that genuinely and no word of a lie now that the only reason people say they are good is to make them selves feel better for buying something so expensive :(

I'm sorry HHKB it's not me... It's you :c


Then again I'll probs buy a HHKB in a year of so :/
Well I own one. I'm cool. At this point people buy them just to be cool by association. Don't be a square fire, get a hhkb.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fire Brand on Fri, 12 June 2015, 09:24:24
HHKB what does everyone see in it? To me the average person that granted has not used topre it looks like a overpriced white poker with a goofy layout that just plain makes no sense to me, and the HHKB circle jerk is real I always feel that genuinely and no word of a lie now that the only reason people say they are good is to make them selves feel better for buying something so expensive :(

I'm sorry HHKB it's not me... It's you :c


Then again I'll probs buy a HHKB in a year of so :/
Well I own one. I'm cool. At this point people buy them just to be cool by association. Don't be a square fire, get a hhkb.
:/ Its more the price I just think its stupidly expensive for what you get, no matter how cool you are :c also the one otherthing that bothers me is keycaps I can't use any normal ones I have to buy different sets, I changed from purely ISO to ANSI to make it easier, but then I would need to replace them all, set aside the topre to mx stems (Which I have ordered) I just don't know man then theres customs fee's for the keyboard which will bend me over for half of its price :c

I just...I Just don't think you're worth it demik I'm sorry bby ;-; I shall never be as cool as you riding a bike on the side of your wall

Edit: And to make thing worse someone in Sheffield has listed a HHKB on ebay :( Pls no ;-; Steam takes all my money and nendoroids must resist urge...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 12 June 2015, 09:40:03
HHKB what does everyone see in it? To me the average person that granted has not used topre it looks like a overpriced white poker with a goofy layout that just plain makes no sense to me, and the HHKB circle jerk is real I always feel that genuinely and no word of a lie now that the only reason people say they are good is to make them selves feel better for buying something so expensive :(

I'm sorry HHKB it's not me... It's you :c


Then again I'll probs buy a HHKB in a year of so :/
Well I own one. I'm cool. At this point people buy them just to be cool by association. Don't be a square fire, get a hhkb.
:/ Its more the price I just think its stupidly expensive for what you get, no matter how cool you are :c also the one otherthing that bothers me is keycaps I can't use any normal ones I have to buy different sets, I changed from purely ISO to ANSI to make it easier, but then I would need to replace them all, set aside the topre to mx stems (Which I have ordered) I just don't know man then theres customs fee's for the keyboard which will bend me over for half of its price :c

I just...I Just don't think you're worth it demik I'm sorry bby ;-; I shall never be as cool as you riding a bike on the side of your wall

Edit: And to make thing worse someone in Sheffield has listed a HHKB on ebay :( Pls no ;-; Steam takes all my money and nendoroids must resist urge...

When you eventually get it, you'll wonder why you took so long.

And changing caps is overrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Fri, 12 June 2015, 14:10:48
And changing caps is overrated.

^^ this. From my experience with a Cherry board and a couple of group buys, there's a little "pop" of newness you get when you put on a new set of caps... and then a month later it's just "normal" again and you're looking to blow another chunk of cash to get that new keyboard feeling again.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 12 June 2015, 14:28:43
And changing caps is overrated.

^^ this. From my experience with a Cherry board and a couple of group buys, there's a little "pop" of newness you get when you put on a new set of caps... and then a month later it's just "normal" again and you're looking to blow another chunk of cash to get that new keyboard feeling again.

If you're buying them for "newness" then yes. But I enjoy aesthetic pairing of certain sets. They are overpriced, but I feel as if I got my money's worth nonetheless.

Buying mod sets or whatever just for the sake of "matching" them, however, is excessive.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: opensecret on Fri, 12 June 2015, 23:17:28
And changing caps is overrated.

^^ this. From my experience with a Cherry board and a couple of group buys, there's a little "pop" of newness you get when you put on a new set of caps... and then a month later it's just "normal" again and you're looking to blow another chunk of cash to get that new keyboard feeling again.

More proof that almost anything and everything about a keyboard is more important than the keycaps. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bucake on Sat, 13 June 2015, 09:39:07
so you guys are fine with ****ty shiny texture-less abs caps?
not me, thanks. pbt or out the window :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Sat, 13 June 2015, 12:38:26
so you guys are fine with ****ty shiny texture-less abs caps?
not me, thanks. pbt or out the window :cool:

The PBT keycaps on my HHKB are excellent and that's an upgrade I can see making, but chasing endless color combos for novelty is for the birds.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Sat, 13 June 2015, 13:04:02
PBT has no texture.
Neither does ABS.

It's about the ****ing mold and production **** how is this an opinion.
Sure PBT is a harder plastic but sand those *****es down and you'll get the same texture.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 13 June 2015, 13:11:13
I have sanded keycaps before. The thing is, PBT keycaps, that have the texture of sweat-worn ABS out of the box, don't exist AFAIK—only with the exception of inner two-part Model M caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Sat, 13 June 2015, 14:03:19
I have sanded keycaps before. The thing is, PBT keycaps, that have the texture of sweat-worn ABS out of the box, don't exist AFAIK—only with the exception of inner two-part Model M caps.

I'm not sure how sweat-worn you are looking for, but BSP PBT is quite smooth. It's not quite shined ABS smooth, but it lacks the annoying (IMO) grippiness.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 13 June 2015, 15:54:39
so you guys are fine with ****ty shiny texture-less abs caps?
not me, thanks. pbt or out the window :cool:
Pbt and abs all feel the same to me. Spending 100+ on key caps just for the color is just silly now (to me at least)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 13 June 2015, 16:19:19
Quote
I'm not sure how sweat-worn you are looking for, but BSP PBT is quite smooth. It's not quite shined ABS smooth, but it lacks the annoying (IMO) grippiness.
ABS, that's exposed to sweat in the long term, feels quite similar to use of 1000-grit sandpaper, whereas I prefer something like 200 grit, IIRC.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Sat, 13 June 2015, 20:20:07
This topic is fantastic. LOL!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Karura on Sat, 13 June 2015, 23:51:41
This topic is fantastic. LOL!
LOL!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 13 June 2015, 23:58:55
This topic is fantastic. LOL!
LOL!
ROFL!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 14 June 2015, 00:26:43
I actually don't mind Peerless switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: naokira on Mon, 06 July 2015, 07:44:52
Keyboards with LEDs going through their keycaps is so ****ing ugly. The light should not peek through it or else you end up with **** looking keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blahlicus on Mon, 06 July 2015, 17:56:02
heh, are we really doing this?

1. Topre is overrated and a realforce should not be that expensive

2. 40% boards are not practical for day to day use

3. a fullsized board/TKL with numpad is always better if you have the desk space, the thing with mouse distance does not make sense

4. The ergodox is hardly ergonomic

5. Cherry clones are great when priced accordingly

6. Cherry type switches are wobbly

7. Korean customs should not cost $400

8. HHKB is too expensive and has a bad layout, seriously, no Win key?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 06 July 2015, 18:03:45
heh, are we really doing this?

1. Topre is overrated and a realforce should not be that expensive

2. 40% boards are not practical for day to day use

3. a fullsized board/TKL with numpad is always better if you have the desk space, the thing with mouse distance does not make sense

4. The ergodox is hardly ergonomic

5. Cherry clones are great when priced accordingly

6. Cherry type switches are wobbly

7. Korean customs should not cost $400

8. HHKB is too expensive and has a bad layout, seriously, no Win key?
winkey is over-rated Who needs a dedicated key to replace 2 key codes. Ctrl + Esc gives you winkey. If you need to launch something on the taskbar, use your mouse. Need to lock your PC, its 4 more strokes of an arrow key. Need to swap windows, use alt-tab. Ergodox is ergonomic because when used properly, it lets your elbows rest open, which is more naturally then straight.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 06 July 2015, 18:17:30
heh, are we really doing this?

1. Topre is overrated and a realforce should not be that expensive

2. 40% boards are not practical for day to day use

3. a fullsized board/TKL with numpad is always better if you have the desk space, the thing with mouse distance does not make sense

4. The ergodox is hardly ergonomic

5. Cherry clones are great when priced accordingly

6. Cherry type switches are wobbly

7. Korean customs should not cost $400

8. HHKB is too expensive and has a bad layout, seriously, no Win key?
winkey is over-rated Who needs a dedicated key to replace 2 key codes. Ctrl + Esc gives you winkey. If you need to launch something on the taskbar, use your mouse. Need to lock your PC, its 4 more strokes of an arrow key. Need to swap windows, use alt-tab. Ergodox is ergonomic because when used properly, it lets your elbows rest open, which is more naturally then straight.
Agree on the winkey, it's mostly useless and can be replaced easily. As for the ergodox, the whole thumb cluster isn't really ideal.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tbc on Mon, 06 July 2015, 18:20:46
heh, are we really doing this?

1. Topre is overrated and a realforce should not be that expensive

2. 40% boards are not practical for day to day use

3. a fullsized board/TKL with numpad is always better if you have the desk space, the thing with mouse distance does not make sense

4. The ergodox is hardly ergonomic

5. Cherry clones are great when priced accordingly

6. Cherry type switches are wobbly

7. Korean customs should not cost $400

8. HHKB is too expensive and has a bad layout, seriously, no Win key?
winkey is over-rated Who needs a dedicated key to replace 2 key codes. Ctrl + Esc gives you winkey. If you need to launch something on the taskbar, use your mouse. Need to lock your PC, its 4 more strokes of an arrow key. Need to swap windows, use alt-tab. Ergodox is ergonomic because when used properly, it lets your elbows rest open, which is more naturally then straight.
Agree on the winkey, it's mostly useless and can be replaced easily. As for the ergodox, the whole thumb cluster isn't really ideal.

you know, i've seen this complain quite a few times now.

i for one only use my left thumb for 2 btns: space and cmd on os x.  2 keys per thumb on the ergodox is not a problem in the slightest.

are people using their thumbs for more than 2 buttons on a normal keyboard?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 06 July 2015, 18:53:22
heh, are we really doing this?

1. Topre is overrated and a realforce should not be that expensive

2. 40% boards are not practical for day to day use

3. a fullsized board/TKL with numpad is always better if you have the desk space, the thing with mouse distance does not make sense

4. The ergodox is hardly ergonomic

5. Cherry clones are great when priced accordingly

6. Cherry type switches are wobbly

7. Korean customs should not cost $400

8. HHKB is too expensive and has a bad layout, seriously, no Win key?
winkey is over-rated Who needs a dedicated key to replace 2 key codes. Ctrl + Esc gives you winkey. If you need to launch something on the taskbar, use your mouse. Need to lock your PC, its 4 more strokes of an arrow key. Need to swap windows, use alt-tab. Ergodox is ergonomic because when used properly, it lets your elbows rest open, which is more naturally then straight.
Agree on the winkey, it's mostly useless and can be replaced easily. As for the ergodox, the whole thumb cluster isn't really ideal.

you know, i've seen this complain quite a few times now.

i for one only use my left thumb for 2 btns: space and cmd on os x.  2 keys per thumb on the ergodox is not a problem in the slightest.

are people using their thumbs for more than 2 buttons on a normal keyboard?
Well I think a good ergonomic board would let you make more use of your thumbs by letting you hit keys you couldn't normally hit easily before. I'm not really an ergonomics guy, so that's just my somewhat uneducated opinion I guess :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 06 July 2015, 20:01:58
You guys have it wrong.
Winkey is a modifier key similar to the ALt and CTRL keys. The Winkey by itself is a shortcut for the start menu, which actually opens with ctrl-esc. They are not interchangeable. While you can use the Winkey for shortcuts and the start menu, you can't use CTRL-ESC +key  for shortcuts.

Win+e = Windows Explorer
Win+x opens a menu of system functions (dependent on Windows version)
Win+R = run command
Win+d raise or lower a window
And probably 20 others.

I use an Autohotkety script to automatically disable it while gaming (it also converts capslock to shift). Work smarter, not harder.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Mon, 06 July 2015, 20:13:41
You guys have it wrong.
Winkey is a modifier key similar to the ALt and CTRL keys. The Winkey by itself is a shortcut for the start menu, which actually opens with ctrl-esc. They are not interchangeable. While you can use the Winkey for shortcuts and the start menu, you can't use CTRL-ESC +key  for shortcuts.

Win+e = Windows Explorer
Win+x opens a menu of system functions (dependent on Windows version)
Win+R = run command
Win+d raise or lower a window
And probably 20 others.

I use an Autohotkety script to automatically disable it while gaming (it also converts capslock to shift). Work smarter, not harder.

whoa, haven't seen you post in awhile. glad to have you back.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 06 July 2015, 20:31:44
whoa, haven't seen you post in awhile. glad to have you back.
Thanks, just been busy with work.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Mon, 06 July 2015, 22:39:01
If I had one wish, I'd wish that ArthurM from Massdrop would unexpectedly step on a rusty nail or a lego every single day for the rest of his life.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Mon, 06 July 2015, 22:50:07
If I had one wish, I'd wish that ArthurM from Massdrop would unexpectedly step on a rusty nail or a lego every single day for the rest of his life.

did he pour salt in your coffee?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Mon, 06 July 2015, 22:58:49
If I had one wish, I'd wish that ArthurM from Massdrop would unexpectedly step on a rusty nail or a lego every single day for the rest of his life.

did he pour salt in your coffee?

I have so much hate in my heart. Only ArthurM's death will slake my bloodlust.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Tue, 07 July 2015, 03:29:31
We all need to get out more.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Tue, 07 July 2015, 08:13:48
If I had one wish, I'd wish that ArthurM from Massdrop would unexpectedly step on a rusty nail or a lego every single day for the rest of his life.

did he pour salt in your coffee?

I have so much hate in my heart. Only ArthurM's death will slake my bloodlust.

I can understand this somewhat if you knew this guy in person... but hating folks over the internet?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JaccoW on Tue, 07 July 2015, 09:54:43
3. a fullsized board/TKL with numpad is always better if you have the desk space, the thing with mouse distance does not make sense

7. Korean customs should not cost $400
3. I can't use a fullsize anymore without getting pain in my wrist. I'll gladly put a numpad to the side though.

7. Hardly an unpopular opinion but more of an unrealistic one. Mechanical Keyboards are still a niche.
Milling large pieces of aluminum costs money. Low yields cost money. Unless you can find many more people (at least 10-100 times more than now) interested in these custom boards, they won't get much cheaper. The economies of scale are simply not available at these numbers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Tue, 07 July 2015, 10:59:00
heh, are we really doing this?

1. Topre is overrated and a realforce should not be that expensive

2. 40% boards are not practical for day to day use

3. a fullsized board/TKL with numpad is always better if you have the desk space, the thing with mouse distance does not make sense

4. The ergodox is hardly ergonomic

5. Cherry clones are great when priced accordingly

6. Cherry type switches are wobbly

7. Korean customs should not cost $400

8. HHKB is too expensive and has a bad layout, seriously, no Win key?
'

Not always better. A lot of people (e.g. me) have RSI in their wrists, shoulders, or back and need a split layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: UKKeycaps on Tue, 07 July 2015, 11:20:31
This has probably already been said but I really don't understand the '1337' gamer type boards, the fonts are always terrible and they're covered in garish branding.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: childofthehorn on Tue, 07 July 2015, 14:37:14

8. HHKB is too expensive and has a bad layout, seriously, no Win key?
winkey is over-rated Who needs a dedicated key to replace 2 key codes. Ctrl + Esc gives you winkey. If you need to launch something on the taskbar, use your mouse. Need to lock your PC, its 4 more strokes of an arrow key. Need to swap windows, use alt-tab. Ergodox is ergonomic because when used properly, it lets your elbows rest open, which is more naturally then straight.

1. Some of us use Macs at Work and Linux at Home. On standard keyboards, the Winkey subs for the essential command key in Mac-land. On Linux, the Winkey generally provides your system and program search bar. So given this, the two OS's of choice for the hacker-minded..... How in the heck is the HHKB winkeyless layout making a happy hacker?

2. Once going programmable 60% keyboard for doing programming work, it would be hard to go back as switching and doing everything from a small keyboard with just a few keystrokes is pure heaven.

3. I actually LIKE the Matias Quiet Click switches (as do my coworkers)

4. Topre and similar switches feel like mushing into a silicone ball filled with water (kinda feel like I am penetrating the key somehow and I am a chick).

5. Why are there not more 60%+Numpad combo keyboards and none without the function keys? It would be so slim and useful.

6. Gaterons are the best of the MX style switches at the moment

7. I love SA and Cherry.... hate DSA

8. Why does no one make SA PBT keycaps????? I feel like I constantly have to make a choice!

9. Even thick ABS is not as good as Medium PBT, sorry guys... figure out how to build some real grit into the molds and much will be appreciated.



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Tue, 07 July 2015, 14:51:43
8. Why does no one make SA PBT keycaps????? I feel like I constantly have to make a choice!
Let's see, what this project will bring: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/hi-profile-pbt-dye-sub-the-time-has-come-t10805.html
 ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Wed, 08 July 2015, 18:36:41
Topre's are no better than the best Rubber Domes.

Alternatively Topre's are amongst the best of Rubber Domes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 09 July 2015, 17:04:51
heh, are we really doing this?

1. Topre is overrated and a realforce should not be that expensive

2. 40% boards are not practical for day to day use

3. a fullsized board/TKL with numpad is always better if you have the desk space, the thing with mouse distance does not make sense

4. The ergodox is hardly ergonomic

5. Cherry clones are great when priced accordingly

6. Cherry type switches are wobbly

7. Korean customs should not cost $400

8. HHKB is too expensive and has a bad layout, seriously, no Win key?
winkey is over-rated Who needs a dedicated key to replace 2 key codes. Ctrl + Esc gives you winkey. If you need to launch something on the taskbar, use your mouse. Need to lock your PC, its 4 more strokes of an arrow key. Need to swap windows, use alt-tab. Ergodox is ergonomic because when used properly, it lets your elbows rest open, which is more naturally then straight.

First of all, this is ridiculous, because of what Leslieann said.  The winkey is a very useful key to have.  HOWEVER, it's also a useless complaint about the HHKB, because the HHKB has dip switches that give you a winkey.  So it doesn't lack one anyway.   :rolleyes:

You guys have it wrong.
Winkey is a modifier key similar to the ALt and CTRL keys. The Winkey by itself is a shortcut for the start menu, which actually opens with ctrl-esc. They are not interchangeable. While you can use the Winkey for shortcuts and the start menu, you can't use CTRL-ESC +key  for shortcuts.

Win+e = Windows Explorer
Win+x opens a menu of system functions (dependent on Windows version)
Win+R = run command
Win+d raise or lower a window
And probably 20 others.

I use an Autohotkety script to automatically disable it while gaming (it also converts capslock to shift). Work smarter, not harder.

All that said, I still love winkeyless boards.  Just reprogram right Alt to winkey and  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sent on Thu, 09 July 2015, 17:36:29
All that said, I still love winkeyless boards.  Just reprogram right Alt to winkey and  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^

^  Hoff is smart.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 09 July 2015, 18:46:43
All that said, I still love winkeyless boards.  Just reprogram right Alt to winkey and  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^

^  Hoff is smart.
That's a good idea, I might start putting that on ralt.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 09 July 2015, 20:09:30
All that said, I still love winkeyless boards.  Just reprogram right Alt to winkey and  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^
Oh my! :eek:

*runs off to alter keyboard plans*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sent on Thu, 09 July 2015, 20:22:03
All that said, I still love winkeyless boards.  Just reprogram right Alt to winkey and  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^

^  Hoff is smart.
That's a good idea, I might start putting that on ralt.

That and reprogramming caps to ctrl are my two must haves on all my boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 09 July 2015, 20:24:47
All that said, I still love winkeyless boards.  Just reprogram right Alt to winkey and  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^
Oh my! :eek:

*runs off to alter keyboard plans*

I can't tell if I've scared you away with some sacrilegious practice or convinced you to do the same to your boards!   :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Thu, 09 July 2015, 20:31:57
^  Hoff is smart.

Is this an unpopular opinion?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 09 July 2015, 20:32:49
I can't tell if I've scared you away with some sacrilegious practice or convinced you to do the same to your boards!   :))
Running off to alter mine that way, it's a fantastic solution.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 09 July 2015, 20:35:52

^  Hoff is smart.

Is this an unpopular opinion?



I can't tell if I've scared you away with some sacrilegious practice or convinced you to do the same to your boards!   :))
Running off to alter mine that way, it's a fantastic solution.

Oh, well great!  :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 10 July 2015, 01:40:56
All that said, I still love winkeyless boards.  Just reprogram right Alt to winkey and  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^

^  Hoff is smart.
That's a good idea, I might start putting that on ralt.

It's not rAlt, it's called AltGr.

oh I forget dummy english language use like 40 total characters :>
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 10 July 2015, 01:42:03
shut up frenchie
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 10 July 2015, 01:42:04

All that said, I still love winkeyless boards.  Just reprogram right Alt to winkey and  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^

^  Hoff is smart.
That's a good idea, I might start putting that on ralt.

It's not rAlt, it's called AltGr.

oh I forget dummy english language use like 40 total characters :>
:<>
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 10 July 2015, 01:51:09
shut up frenchie

Could you please stop insulting my country, it is becoming really hurtfull lately.




All that said, I still love winkeyless boards.  Just reprogram right Alt to winkey and  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^

^  Hoff is smart.
That's a good idea, I might start putting that on ralt.

It's not rAlt, it's called AltGr.

oh I forget dummy english language use like 40 total characters :>
:<>

:=>
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 10 July 2015, 01:57:04
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/camronNope-Copy.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 10 July 2015, 02:00:03
J'aime la langue. C'est cool.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Fri, 10 July 2015, 02:33:22
VIVA LA FRANCE
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Eug%C3%A8ne_Delacroix_-_La_libert%C3%A9_guidant_le_peuple.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doyniish on Fri, 10 July 2015, 07:26:41
The Ducky Mini is one of the ugliest keyboards I have ever seen.
(https://i.imgur.com/HddaZaP.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Fri, 10 July 2015, 07:37:19
The Ducky Mini is one of the ugliest keyboards I have ever seen.
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/HddaZaP.png)


I had one for a while - didn't really like it and sold it.

Lack of programmability is a killer.

The mouse functionality however is pretty cool and I'd like to see it on more boards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Fri, 10 July 2015, 12:11:36
They keep saying on Reddit that geekhack is a clique-ish place. I just want to know how to A) infiltrate the inner circle a la Mean Girls; and B) get a custom title.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Herothereu on Fri, 10 July 2015, 12:18:53
I think demik should have been banned in the GH 60 thread, not Glissant.

 ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 10 July 2015, 12:24:55
They keep saying on Reddit that geekhack is a clique-ish place. I just want to know how to A) infiltrate the inner circle a la Mean Girls; and B) get a custom title.
If you PM a mod and ask very nicely you can get a custom title :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asdfjkl36 on Fri, 10 July 2015, 13:30:42
My custom title would say something about space cats :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Fri, 10 July 2015, 14:28:55
They keep saying on Reddit that geekhack is a clique-ish place. I just want to know how to A) infiltrate the inner circle a la Mean Girls; and B) get a custom title.
If you PM a mod and ask very nicely you can get a custom title :)

Time to grovel
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doyniish on Fri, 10 July 2015, 16:56:39
The Ducky Mini is one of the ugliest keyboards I have ever seen.
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/HddaZaP.png)


I had one for a while - didn't really like it and sold it.

Lack of programmability is a killer.

The mouse functionality however is pretty cool and I'd like to see it on more boards

Good choice, definitely much better alternatives out there!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 10 July 2015, 18:31:14
Backlighting in general is super overrated.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 10 July 2015, 19:20:35
I think demik should have been banned in the GH 60 thread, not Glissant.

 ;D

Daaww, did something I say hurt your little feelings?

Glissant didn't get banned, he got muted. If you're too sensitive there is the report button in the bottom right hand corner of all my posts where u can report anything I say. You can start with this post.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 10 July 2015, 19:29:10
I think demik should have been banned in the GH 60 thread, not Glissant.

 ;D

Report the offending post, don't post in here.   :confused:

Also, Glissant wasn't banned.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Fri, 10 July 2015, 20:33:30
Backlighting in general is super overrated.

+1
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 10 July 2015, 21:16:11
I think demik should have been banned in the GH 60 thread, not Glissant.

 ;D

Daaww, did something I say hurt your little feelings?

Glissant didn't get banned, he got muted. If you're too sensitive there is the report button in the bottom right hand corner of all my posts where u can report anything I say. You can start with this post.
reported for having an opinion
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: awhitedev on Fri, 10 July 2015, 21:20:37
If I had one wish, I'd wish that ArthurM from Massdrop would unexpectedly step on a rusty nail or a lego every single day for the rest of his life.

did he pour salt in your coffee?

I have so much hate in my heart. Only ArthurM's death will slake my bloodlust.

Ok I'll bite.. what did ArthurM do??
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asdfjkl36 on Sat, 11 July 2015, 06:16:24
My custom title would say something about space cats :)

EEEEEY!! That's what's uuup!

Thanks whoever fulfilled my dreams ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 11 July 2015, 08:04:36
My custom title would say something about space cats :)

EEEEEY!! That's what's uuup!

Thanks whoever fulfilled my dreams ;D

 ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Fri, 24 July 2015, 06:54:33
I don't understand why any mech enthusiast would buy a non-split keyboard other than A) price; or B) switch selection.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Fri, 24 July 2015, 09:03:14
I don't understand why any mech enthusiast would buy a non-split keyboard other than A) price; or B) switch selection.

Aesthetics?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Fri, 24 July 2015, 11:50:17
I don't understand why any mech enthusiast would buy a non-split keyboard other than A) price; or B) switch selection.

Having a fixed distance between hands isn't necessarily bad (like in a Kinesis or Maltron), and it can be less fiddly to move a keyboard like that than to adjust each hand individually.

/Wish the Maltron had an aluminum plate and a bit more heft, though
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 24 July 2015, 13:38:24
I don't understand why any mech enthusiast would buy a non-split keyboard other than A) price; or B) switch selection.

If only most split boards didn't look awful
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lolkey on Fri, 24 July 2015, 13:41:39
LED backlight looks like **** on 99.9% of keyboards. Reminds me of those ****ty PC mods with a plexi glass window and LED bar that flickers to the bass of a song; i.e., super tacky. The only decent looking ones are the white led with a very low brightness.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 24 July 2015, 14:02:27
ITT half of GH doesn't like backlight
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: saturnotaku on Fri, 24 July 2015, 14:07:59
I bought the TKL version of the Razer BlackWidow Chroma Stealth and absolutely love it. The only Cherry switches I might possibly like more than Razer's are greens.

So do I win this thread?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 24 July 2015, 15:15:56
I bought the TKL version of the Razer BlackWidow Chroma Stealth and absolutely love it. The only Cherry switches I might possibly like more than Razer's are greens.

So do I win this thread?

I liked mine, I don't like the the case material though :(

Also gaterons are overhyped, but they are better stock than new cherry switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Seranite on Fri, 24 July 2015, 15:35:23
LED backlight looks like **** on 99.9% of keyboards. Reminds me of those ****ty PC mods with a plexi glass window and LED bar that flickers to the bass of a song; i.e., super tacky. The only decent looking ones are the white led with a very low brightness.

You mean like this?

(http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/223-thickbox_default/gon-ns-nerd-crystal-mobik-w-tuningassembly.jpg)

Shots fired
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lolkey on Fri, 24 July 2015, 15:45:22
LED backlight looks like **** on 99.9% of keyboards. Reminds me of those ****ty PC mods with a plexi glass window and LED bar that flickers to the bass of a song; i.e., super tacky. The only decent looking ones are the white led with a very low brightness.

You mean like this?

Show Image
(http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/223-thickbox_default/gon-ns-nerd-crystal-mobik-w-tuningassembly.jpg)


Shots fired

Yup. Might as well add one of these:

(http://i.imgur.com/DGRTAEu.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Fri, 24 July 2015, 15:51:59
I like Romer-G switches (only for gaming), even if the G910/310 have god-awful keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Fri, 24 July 2015, 16:06:14
I don't understand why any mech enthusiast would buy a non-split keyboard other than A) price; or B) switch selection.

Having a fixed distance between hands isn't necessarily bad (like in a Kinesis or Maltron), and it can be less fiddly to move a keyboard like that than to adjust each hand individually.

/Wish the Maltron had an aluminum plate and a bit more heft, though

I consider that a split board because its alphanumeric keys are bisected.
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: saturnotaku on Fri, 24 July 2015, 20:24:23
I like Romer-G switches (only for gaming), even if the G910/310 have god-awful keycaps.

I like the feel of Romer-G, too but absolutely nothing else about those keyboards.

To me, Razer's switches are smoother than any stock Cherry. The silent versions have ever so slightly less of a tactile bump than MX browns, making them better suited for the games I play yet are still satisfying to type on all day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 24 July 2015, 21:00:06
LED backlight looks like **** on 99.9% of keyboards. Reminds me of those ****ty PC mods with a plexi glass window and LED bar that flickers to the bass of a song; i.e., super tacky. The only decent looking ones are the white led with a very low brightness.

You mean like this?

Show Image
(http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/223-thickbox_default/gon-ns-nerd-crystal-mobik-w-tuningassembly.jpg)


Shots fired

Yup. Might as well add one of these:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/DGRTAEu.jpg)

those LED usb cables are ****ing hideous. what am i, a 9 year old raver?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Fri, 24 July 2015, 21:02:31
I'M FREAKING OUT MANN

(http://pre01.deviantart.net/52aa/th/pre/i/2007/288/f/8/rave_lights_guy_1_by_photoboy1002001.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Fri, 24 July 2015, 21:20:32
ITT half of GH doesn't like backlight

Yeah but it's the unpopular half.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 24 July 2015, 21:22:42
I'M FREAKING OUT MANN

Show Image
(http://pre01.deviantart.net/52aa/th/pre/i/2007/288/f/8/rave_lights_guy_1_by_photoboy1002001.jpg)


(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c1/08/7d/c1087da5b7b6e7852d2f13be66340e5e.jpg)

THIS IS NOT ME
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 24 July 2015, 21:26:02
LEDs are cool, jazz up the board some
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 25 July 2015, 05:30:30
I don't understand why any mech enthusiast would buy a non-split keyboard other than A) price; or B) switch selection.

If only most split boards didn't look awful
Right. Because you get keyboards to look at them, not to _type_ on them. 99% of Geekhack in the nutshell.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 25 July 2015, 06:24:58
I don't understand why any mech enthusiast would buy a non-split keyboard other than A) price; or B) switch selection.

If only most split boards didn't look awful
Right. Because you get keyboards to look at them, not to _type_ on them. 99% of Geekhack in the nutshell.
Sorry I wish they looked a bit better? It's a pretty valid complaint
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vindaon on Sat, 25 July 2015, 06:44:06
I bet you get clothes to look good and not to protect yourselves from the weather too. Wtf is wrong with you people? /s
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vindaon on Sat, 25 July 2015, 09:24:44
As for an actual unpopular opinion... I like the shine on ABS keycaps, and I like the texture too. The problem is consistency. It sucks when there's only shine on home row/wasd cluster and nowhere else.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 25 July 2015, 09:45:12
I bet you get clothes to look good and not to protect yourselves from the weather too. Wtf is wrong with you people? /s

Women sure as hell do.

Heels, thongs, crop tops, low cut shirts, skin tight pants, shorts with half the ass hanging out and I think they hate bras also. None of that can be comfortable/protect you from the elements. But they still buy it.

and I'm glad they do. Form over function ladies, don't you change that!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Phirr on Sat, 25 July 2015, 09:53:30
As for an actual unpopular opinion... I like the shine on ABS keycaps, and I like the texture too. The problem is consistency. It sucks when there's only shine on home row/wasd cluster and nowhere else.

100% agree, also when there's shine on a single part of the spacebar it looks awful.

Separate unpopular opinion: I don't like the look of GMK caps, or most caps that have off-center legends.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 25 July 2015, 10:17:51
I bet you get clothes to look good and not to protect yourselves from the weather too. Wtf is wrong with you people? /s

Women sure as hell do.

Heels, thongs, crop tops, low cut shirts, skin tight pants, shorts with half the ass hanging out and I think they hate bras also. None of that can be comfortable/protect you from the elements. But they still buy it.

and I'm glad they do. Form over function ladies, don't you change that!
Wouldn't you prefer them naked though?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 25 July 2015, 10:23:32
I bet you get clothes to look good and not to protect yourselves from the weather too. Wtf is wrong with you people? /s

Women sure as hell do.

Heels, thongs, crop tops, low cut shirts, skin tight pants, shorts with half the ass hanging out and I think they hate bras also. None of that can be comfortable/protect you from the elements. But they still buy it.

and I'm glad they do. Form over function ladies, don't you change that!
Wouldn't you prefer them naked though?
Not all the time, no. A naked woman is nice and all, but one dressed up nicely is sometimes more appealing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: qortra on Sat, 25 July 2015, 11:02:11
* Cherry stabilisers > Costar stabilisers.
Absolutely.

Also, I'm not a fan of 60% - I use the arrow keys too much, and I prefer hand repositioning to chording.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 25 July 2015, 11:08:18
I bet you get clothes to look good and not to protect yourselves from the weather too. Wtf is wrong with you people? /s

Women sure as hell do.

Heels, thongs, crop tops, low cut shirts, skin tight pants, shorts with half the ass hanging out and I think they hate bras also. None of that can be comfortable/protect you from the elements. But they still buy it.

and I'm glad they do. Form over function ladies, don't you change that!
Wouldn't you prefer them naked though?
Not all the time, no. A naked woman is nice and all, but one dressed up nicely is sometimes more appealing.
That's cool and stuff, but the analogy fails, when it comes to utility.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 25 July 2015, 11:11:51
What analogy?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 25 July 2015, 14:15:03
I bet you get clothes to look good and not to protect yourselves from the weather too. Wtf is wrong with you people? /s
Women sure as hell do.
No need to gender this. Men also wear all kinds of silly things to match the style of whatever subculture they belong to, or to show respect, or to show their sexual desperation, or whatever.

Sure, clothing is about staying warm and keeping the rain out, but it’s also about signaling identity / social status / intentions.

If we all wore the same clothing, it would be much harder to stereotype people or maintain arbitrary status hierarchies.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Sat, 25 July 2015, 18:39:07
Edit: accidentally replied to old comment
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fishcola on Wed, 29 July 2015, 11:20:40
I'm sick of black keyboards, there are way too many of them.  Something like a white Filco tkl shouldn't be such a rare thing.

Custom keyboards are cool, but I don't see the reason for customizing function layers that you can't depend on if you use different machines regularly.

I wish i could like the hhkb, it's beautiful and having a blank white one would be soooper cool, but I refuse to relearn certain key locations.

flipped spacebar annoys me... I tried it, but not for me.

I think having separate WASD keycaps is ugly and unnecessary...

...I don't own a topre board, how's that for unpopular?  :).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hoz on Wed, 29 July 2015, 16:59:15
I'm sick of black keyboards, there are way too many of them.  Something like a white Filco tkl shouldn't be such a rare thing.

Custom keyboards are cool, but I don't see the reason for customizing function layers that you can't depend on if you use different machines regularly.

I wish i could like the hhkb, it's beautiful and having a blank white one would be soooper cool, but I refuse to relearn certain key locations.

flipped spacebar annoys me... I tried it, but not for me.

I think having separate WASD keycaps is ugly and unnecessary...

...I don't own a topre board, how's that for unpopular?  :).

repaint them or;
discard your retail boards, replace with all customs.
there´s nothing cool about the hhkb except the layout, and even that needs changes, hence, customs. (and well, they're hilariously overpriced pieces of plastic)
alot of people find flipped spacebars an abonomination.
alot of people also find "special" keycaps for WASD repulsive.
quite popular, since well, theyre just hyped slider over domes...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fishcola on Wed, 29 July 2015, 17:09:16
all of your suggestions are too popular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Wed, 29 July 2015, 17:22:00
I'm sick of black keyboards, there are way too many of them.  Something like a white Filco tkl shouldn't be such a rare thing.

Custom keyboards are cool, but I don't see the reason for customizing function layers that you can't depend on if you use different machines regularly.

I wish i could like the hhkb, it's beautiful and having a blank white one would be soooper cool, but I refuse to relearn certain key locations.

flipped spacebar annoys me... I tried it, but not for me.

I think having separate WASD keycaps is ugly and unnecessary...

...I don't own a topre board, how's that for unpopular?  :).

repaint them or;
discard your retail boards, replace with all customs.
there´s nothing cool about the hhkb except the layout, and even that needs changes, hence, customs. (and well, they're hilariously overpriced pieces of plastic)
alot of people find flipped spacebars an abonomination.
alot of people also find "special" keycaps for WASD repulsive.
quite popular, since well, theyre just hyped slider over domes...
(http://i.imgur.com/8m4wopZ.gif)
u know what else is overhyped? ur mum




But seriously, you have to live and breath topre, before you can truly realise what you had been missing with other switches...Sorry for the bad joke <3
(http://i.imgur.com/exMQ950.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 29 July 2015, 18:52:32
I like to use my keyboard to reply to PMs

 :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 29 July 2015, 19:25:38
I think Kishsaver looks ugly as ****
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 29 July 2015, 20:05:25
I think Kishsaver looks ugly as ****

I think the only IBM boards worth getting are Model Fs; however, all Model F keyboards have a horrible layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 29 July 2015, 20:40:12
I think Kishsaver looks ugly as ****

Wait... this is unpopular?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Wed, 29 July 2015, 20:43:27
I think Kishsaver looks ugly as ****

Wait... this is unpopular?

I love how they look, the giant vintage stuff is cool. It's why I still use a G80-3700.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Wed, 29 July 2015, 20:45:13

I think Kishsaver looks ugly as ****

Wait... this is unpopular?

I love how they look, the giant vintage stuff is cool. It's why I still use a G80-3700.
Yeah, best looking numpad by far
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Wed, 29 July 2015, 20:59:04

I think Kishsaver looks ugly as ****

Wait... this is unpopular?

I love how they look, the giant vintage stuff is cool. It's why I still use a G80-3700.
Yeah, best looking numpad by far

The proportions are just right, ya know? It's hard to make one look bad.

Just look at it!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 29 July 2015, 23:27:56
I bet you get clothes to look good and not to protect yourselves from the weather too. Wtf is wrong with you people? /s
Good thing I went to reply to this and saw that /s lol
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 30 July 2015, 08:02:54
I think a lot of the IBM vintage boards look good, but some of them just look awful.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 30 July 2015, 08:04:57
Gon keyboards are unnecessarily priced. All his boards are just glorified plates.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Thu, 30 July 2015, 08:39:41
I'd rather put a dead rat on my desk than one of those ergonomic monstrosities.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 30 July 2015, 08:52:25
I'd rather put a dead rat on my desk than one of those ergonomic monstrosities.
Ergodox is pretty small, are you talking about a G80-5000?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Thu, 30 July 2015, 10:49:22
I'd rather put a dead rat on my desk than one of those ergonomic monstrosities.
Ergodox is pretty small, are you talking about a G80-5000?
Pretty much any of them, even the rat-sized variety. I just think they're *really* ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 30 July 2015, 10:59:59
The Ergodox is horribly ugly.  I also don't get the point of an ergonomic keyboard without a negative slope and without built in tenting. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Thu, 30 July 2015, 11:02:00
I think Kishsaver looks ugly as ****

I think the only IBM boards worth getting are Model Fs; however, all Model F keyboards have a horrible layout.

Thank you.  I agree with this statement for the most part.  However, Model M's are definitely better than most everything available currently.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Thu, 30 July 2015, 11:02:11
Gon keyboards are unnecessarily priced. All his boards are just glorified plates.

Topre is glorified rubber and also costs a lot...

(I still love you, Topre).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 30 July 2015, 11:39:38
I think Kishsaver looks ugly as ****

I think the only IBM boards worth getting are Model Fs; however, all Model F keyboards have a horrible layout.

Thank you.  I agree with this statement for the most part.  However, Model M's are definitely better than most everything available currently.

I just can't get behind Model Ms.  They've all felt lackluster to me.  Orange, Cream, Green, Salmon, and Blue Alps and the HHKB are way better, IMO.  It's a wash with stock MX, at least with linear and tactile, Blues and Greens just suck. Modded linear and tactile MX switches are better though.

Of course, I don't care for clicky keyboards, so I already have that against the Model M.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Thu, 30 July 2015, 12:09:23
I think Kishsaver looks ugly as ****

I think the only IBM boards worth getting are Model Fs; however, all Model F keyboards have a horrible layout.

Thank you.  I agree with this statement for the most part.  However, Model M's are definitely better than most everything available currently.

I just can't get behind Model Ms.  They've all felt lackluster to me.  Orange, Cream, Green, Salmon, and Blue Alps and the HHKB are way better, IMO.  It's a wash with stock MX, at least with linear and tactile, Blues and Greens just suck. Modded linear and tactile MX switches are better though.

Of course, I don't care for clicky keyboards, so I already have that against the Model M.

I don't quite understand the meaning of what you just stated.  If you don't care much for clicky keyboards, but adore the Model F, *which can be more clicky than any Model M; (especially with the solenoid) you are contradicting everything you say about IBM clicky keyboards to begin with.

Maybe you just have a "vintage" care about the Model F, (which I understand), but that just solidifies what I mean about the Model M.

I am just trying to sort through your contradictions Nubbinator.  No matter how I look at it, you seem to have opposite to what you say in the past as compared to what you are saying now.

I said that Model F keyboards are clumsy and awkward.  I still believe that, and you affirmed it.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 30 July 2015, 12:57:20
I don't like clicky keyboards, but the Model F actually feels pleasant to type on.  You can differentiate between feel and sound and your particular dislikes on one spectrum can be overcome by likes on others.  In fact, almost all decisions are ones of contradictory tastes where you don't like certain things, but the overall feel/taste/sight/etc outweighs the negative.  The feel of the switches and the sturdiness and heft of Model Fs outweigh my dislike for clicky switches.  Model Ms just feel like cheap toys to me.  Coupled with the clickiness it makes fit a board I don't care for in the least.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sun, 02 August 2015, 20:16:28
I don't like clicky keyboards, but the Model F actually feels pleasant to type on.  You can differentiate between feel and sound and your particular dislikes on one spectrum can be overcome by likes on others.  In fact, almost all decisions are ones of contradictory tastes where you don't like certain things, but the overall feel/taste/sight/etc outweighs the negative.  The feel of the switches and the sturdiness and heft of Model Fs outweigh my dislike for clicky switches.  Model Ms just feel like cheap toys to me.  Coupled with the clickiness it makes fit a board I don't care for in the least.

Wow, dude—if you aren't a lawyer or a politician, you're missing a tremendous opportunity.  :?)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eternalmetal on Mon, 03 August 2015, 10:56:09
I don't like clicky keyboards, but the Model F actually feels pleasant to type on.  You can differentiate between feel and sound and your particular dislikes on one spectrum can be overcome by likes on others.  In fact, almost all decisions are ones of contradictory tastes where you don't like certain things, but the overall feel/taste/sight/etc outweighs the negative.  The feel of the switches and the sturdiness and heft of Model Fs outweigh my dislike for clicky switches.  Model Ms just feel like cheap toys to me.  Coupled with the clickiness it makes fit a board I don't care for in the least.

I grew up learning how to type on a Model M, and thus as a result I gravitated away from all buckling spring boards and preferred rubber domes for many years afterwards.  Why anyone would want one of those annoying cheap feeling keyboards is beyond me.  Ive never tried a Model F though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fishcola on Mon, 10 August 2015, 21:37:57
I don't like any cherry switches. their travel is too long and the non linear ones don't feel anywhere near as good when actuating compared to a buckling spring. I'm typing this on a mx green board....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 12 August 2015, 06:33:33
i dont really like clacks
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 12 August 2015, 07:43:59
I think boards where all the function keys are swapped with artisans looks childish. If there's more than 2 maybe 3 artisans than it's too much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Wed, 12 August 2015, 14:29:02
I think boards where all the function keys are swapped with artisans looks childish. If there's more than 2 maybe 3 artisans than it's too much.

1 is too much. If I wanted my keyboard to look like a gumball toy machine threw up all over it I'd just save the money and glue literal garbage to the keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 12 August 2015, 14:34:41
I think boards where all the function keys are swapped with artisans looks childish. If there's more than 2 maybe 3 artisans than it's too much.

1 is too much. If I wanted my keyboard to look like a gumball toy machine threw up all over it I'd just save the money and glue literal garbage to the keys.

2-3 was me being generous haha, I don't own any artisans and I don't plan on it, I'd much rather have a collection of key sets than artisans.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 12 August 2015, 14:35:35
This seems unpopular right now, but I like how the colors for TA turned out.  Wish I'd bought in now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Wed, 12 August 2015, 14:46:25
This seems unpopular right now, but I like how the colors for TA turned out.  Wish I'd bought in now.

you should be able to get a set from someone then :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 12 August 2015, 14:48:05
This seems unpopular right now, but I like how the colors for TA turned out.  Wish I'd bought in now.

I wouldn't say it's unpopular but users being misinformed. Everybody had their own perspective on what they thought TA truly was while looking at a 30 year old yellowed TA set through an un-calibrated monitor. The images on Massdrop were also highly doctored as well so people were expecting a set that doesn't exist. Like Intelli said the modifiers teal is pretty spot on in normal lighting but the only thing that he would even think about changing would be to slightly dim down the color of the alphas. Overall Intelli did a fantastic job and he's on the receiving end of a bunch of unnecessary whining about part of the production and shipping that was out of his control. These were custom colors that GMK has never dealt with before, there has been no other group buy like the TA one so it was a learning experience for everybody.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Clessiah on Thu, 13 August 2015, 19:58:51
I find Logitech G910's keycaps to be a legit attempt of improvement over traditional keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dutC4 on Thu, 13 August 2015, 20:54:01
 :blank:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fishcola on Thu, 13 August 2015, 20:54:30
I haven't tried the 910's new switches, but the "gaming theming to the maxxx" is a big turnoff, probably to others as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Thu, 13 August 2015, 21:06:01
Has anyone even tried that G910 at all?  Is there a legitimate review on it?  I do know that it does have a 2 year warranty on it.  Hmm.  I suppose if I had a choice between a Razer and the Logitech, I'd pick the Logitech.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Thu, 13 August 2015, 21:25:20
TKL is the least practical standard layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 13 August 2015, 22:48:47
TKL is the least practical standard layout.

40% begs to disagree.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 13 August 2015, 22:51:14
40% are novelties
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 13 August 2015, 23:02:00
stock greetech is better than stock cherry
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DrHubblePhD on Thu, 13 August 2015, 23:04:05
****loard is the best Korean custom
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 13 August 2015, 23:17:14
stock greetech is better than stock cherry
I do not get the hype of other switches. Gaterons are nice, but I will take my vintage blacks over them. I haven't tried greetech, but they don't have any thing special, unlike gateron.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 13 August 2015, 23:22:07
stock greetech is better than stock cherry
I do not get the hype of other switches. Gaterons are nice, but I will take my vintage blacks over them. I haven't tried greetech, but they don't have any thing special, unlike gateron.
Apples to oranges. There's hype because the stock of one is better than the stock of the other.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jorgenslee on Thu, 13 August 2015, 23:50:50
I just can't get behind Model Ms.  They've all felt lackluster to me.  Orange, Cream, Green, Salmon, and Blue Alps and the HHKB are way better, IMO.  It's a wash with stock MX, at least with linear and tactile, Blues and Greens just suck. Modded linear and tactile MX switches are better though.

Of course, I don't care for clicky keyboards, so I already have that against the Model M.

Which of the tactile alps you find best? Which has the most pronounce bump? Just curious as I am real keen on trying those switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 14 August 2015, 00:05:40
Brown or tactile Green have the biggest bump, but Oranges are the ones I like the best.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sencha on Fri, 14 August 2015, 02:19:51
I hate the way GMK keycaps feel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 14 August 2015, 02:23:56
I hate the way GMK keycaps feel.

same!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 14 August 2015, 04:11:13
What is the growing trend towards keyboards that have just blanks on them?  I suppose it does give them a "clean" look, but sort of makes it hard to find your way around sometimes.
I do touch type, and I can get along without legends if I have the F and J keys for indexing.  However, I think I am opposite to the "blank" keys.

I would rather find keyboards with nice legends.  The problem is, a lot of new keyboards just have decals or legends that leave a lot to be desired, and maybe that's why people are buying more sets with no legends at all.

Maybe in the future.  Who knows?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 14 August 2015, 04:17:37
What is the growing trend towards keyboards that have just blanks on them?  I suppose it does give them a "clean" look, but sort of makes it hard to find your way around sometimes.
I do touch type, and I can get along without legends if I have the F and J keys for indexing.  However, I think I am opposite to the "blank" keys.

I would rather find keyboards with nice legends.  The problem is, a lot of new keyboards just have decals or legends that leave a lot to be desired, and maybe that's why people are buying more sets with no legends at all.

Maybe in the future.  Who knows?


Lately it has a lot to do with the gateron blanks, 2 different GB, MassDrop and Shadovved. It looks clean and when I personnaly prefer a blank to a wrong legend key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sth on Fri, 14 August 2015, 04:21:22
What is the growing trend towards keyboards that have just blanks on them?  I suppose it does give them a "clean" look, but sort of makes it hard to find your way around sometimes.
I do touch type, and I can get along without legends if I have the F and J keys for indexing.  However, I think I am opposite to the "blank" keys.

I would rather find keyboards with nice legends.  The problem is, a lot of new keyboards just have decals or legends that leave a lot to be desired, and maybe that's why people are buying more sets with no legends at all.

Maybe in the future.  Who knows?


this is not really 'new' in the hobbyist scene and nice legends will never die out.
i am pretty convinced that if you don't give yourself the opportunity to look at your legends, you'll get used to it a lot faster than you may expect. also in my it gives the added benefit of people in my office not using my computer (in addition to running a /g/ style linux setup, it's pretty imposing to most folks... dont touch my stuff plebs).

it definitely has something to do with the look though, you're right about that. but there are other reasons.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Fri, 14 August 2015, 04:28:00
stock greetech is better than stock cherry
I do not get the hype of other switches. Gaterons are nice, but I will take my vintage blacks over them. I haven't tried greetech, but they don't have any thing special, unlike gateron.
What are vintage blacks anyways? I got a pile of them and almost every switch feels different, some feel smooth, some feel like new blacks. My Gaterons feel as good as the smooth Cherry blacks I got and this is consistent for every switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Fri, 14 August 2015, 04:31:19
i am pretty convinced that if you don't give yourself the opportunity to look at your legends, you'll get used to it a lot faster than you may expect.
Damn numberrow is my worst enemy! >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 14 August 2015, 04:37:44
i am pretty convinced that if you don't give yourself the opportunity to look at your legends, you'll get used to it a lot faster than you may expect.
Damn numberrow is my worst enemy! >:D

I stopped because for this very reason, number row is a bish
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 14 August 2015, 10:16:15
What is the growing trend towards keyboards that have just blanks on them?  I suppose it does give them a "clean" look, but sort of makes it hard to find your way around sometimes.
I do touch type, and I can get along without legends if I have the F and J keys for indexing.  However, I think I am opposite to the "blank" keys.

I would rather find keyboards with nice legends.  The problem is, a lot of new keyboards just have decals or legends that leave a lot to be desired, and maybe that's why people are buying more sets with no legends at all.

Maybe in the future.  Who knows?


this is not really 'new' in the hobbyist scene and nice legends will never die out.
i am pretty convinced that if you don't give yourself the opportunity to look at your legends, you'll get used to it a lot faster than you may expect. also in my it gives the added benefit of people in my office not using my computer (in addition to running a /g/ style linux setup, it's pretty imposing to most folks... dont touch my stuff plebs).

it definitely has something to do with the look though, you're right about that. but there are other reasons.

Yeah, blanks have been popular for quite awhile.  And for exactly the reasons sth outlined.  Aesthetics and the fun of confusing people.  :P  I'm not a fan of them on my own boards, but I do love the pics.   ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nephiel on Fri, 14 August 2015, 10:19:19
What is the growing trend towards keyboards that have just blanks on them?  I suppose it does give them a "clean" look, but sort of makes it hard to find your way around sometimes.
I do touch type, and I can get along without legends if I have the F and J keys for indexing.  However, I think I am opposite to the "blank" keys.

I would rather find keyboards with nice legends.  The problem is, a lot of new keyboards just have decals or legends that leave a lot to be desired, and maybe that's why people are buying more sets with no legends at all.

Maybe in the future.  Who knows?


this is not really 'new' in the hobbyist scene and nice legends will never die out.
i am pretty convinced that if you don't give yourself the opportunity to look at your legends, you'll get used to it a lot faster than you may expect. also in my it gives the added benefit of people in my office not using my computer (in addition to running a /g/ style linux setup, it's pretty imposing to most folks... dont touch my stuff plebs).

it definitely has something to do with the look though, you're right about that. but there are other reasons.
It's also harder and more expensive to get keycaps for non-english layouts.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: henz on Mon, 17 August 2015, 02:03:55
i am pretty convinced that if you don't give yourself the opportunity to look at your legends, you'll get used to it a lot faster than you may expect.
Damn numberrow is my worst enemy! >:D

I stopped because for this very reason, number row is a bish

number row in case when writing strong passwords, that **** sux ballz
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 17 August 2015, 12:40:50
thankfully starcraft has trained me to be 99% proficient with the number row.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tuntematon on Mon, 17 August 2015, 13:20:19
This seems unpopular right now, but I like how the colors for TA turned out.  Wish I'd bought in now.

Which picture(s) are you basing this on? I don't think I've seen an accurate representation of the colours anywhere.  Very hard to capture it would seem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wlhlm on Mon, 17 August 2015, 13:35:37
This seems unpopular right now, but I like how the colors for TA turned out.  Wish I'd bought in now.

Which picture(s) are you basing this on? I don't think I've seen an accurate representation of the colours anywhere.  Very hard to capture it would seem.
Indeed, many pictures were off with the mods being either too blue or too teal. Also, in almost any pictures, the Alphas look white, which they aren't.

I think the most accurate shot was posted by techmattr:
This is why I keep my D50 around. No CMOS censor is as color accurate as the old school CCD sensors.

Color calibrated U2410. Shot RAW with neutral profile. No editing. Saved as png. The file uploaded to imgur doesn't perfectly match the local file I have in Photoshop but it is really close. The file in Photoshop I can hold the keycap up to the screen and it matches as close as my eyes can tell.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/VIrGmFa.png)


Edit:
It seems imgur plays more nicely with jpg. These two shots are identical on my local PC. The jpg below is the accurate one.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/0rxJFwH.jpg)

Especially the Alpha keys look on point.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Herothereu on Mon, 17 August 2015, 21:32:28
i dont really like clacks

Heresy!

Somebody sell me one!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 17 August 2015, 21:40:56
I know it is probably just me, but I think the teal in GMK TA looks like bird **** and I hate it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Mon, 17 August 2015, 21:45:44
I know it is probably just me, but I think the teal in GMK TA looks like bird **** and I hate it.

Have you seen a set in person? My opinion on key sets usually changes a lot when I see the set in person, either I love it even more than I thought or maybe not so much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 17 August 2015, 21:46:35
I know it is probably just me, but I think the teal in GMK TA looks like bird **** and I hate it.

Have you seen a set in person? My opinion on key sets usually changes a lot when I see the set in person, either I love it even more than I thought or maybe not so much.

I had a set and sold it already.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Mon, 17 August 2015, 21:54:25
I know it is probably just me, but I think the teal in GMK TA looks like bird **** and I hate it.

Have you seen a set in person? My opinion on key sets usually changes a lot when I see the set in person, either I love it even more than I thought or maybe not so much.

I had a set and sold it already.

That's a bummer then, everybody likes different things and that's what sparks creativity. I think the next set I want to check out will be hyperfuse when they show up on bingecaps since I missed the GB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 17 August 2015, 22:20:15
I know it is probably just me, but I think the teal in GMK TA looks like bird **** and I hate it.

raindrop v2
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 17 August 2015, 22:36:55
Imo the tactile feedback on MX clears just feels like the switch is broken.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: apolotary on Mon, 17 August 2015, 23:01:00
Constant bottom-out typing on Topre gets really annoying after a couple of months of use
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 18 August 2015, 01:35:39
All mechanical keyboards include mx, topre, bs.... are over price
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Tue, 18 August 2015, 14:35:58
All mechanical keyboards include mx, topre, bs.... are over price

I think prices would come down considerably if mechanical keyboards became more popular and manufacturers could scale up.

As popular as this stuff might seem here in the echo chamber of GH, I bet 99%+ of consumers are just using whatever keyboard is lying around.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 18 August 2015, 15:15:03
ripster did nothing wrong.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 18 August 2015, 15:16:07
ripster did nothing wrong.

ooooooh
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Tue, 18 August 2015, 15:18:49
ripster did nothing wrong.

ooooooh

aaaaaand RIP this thread
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 18 August 2015, 15:39:02
ripster did nothing wrong.

/thread
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Tue, 18 August 2015, 15:48:01
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 19 August 2015, 11:25:17
I know it is probably just me, but I think the teal in GMK TA looks like bird **** and I hate it.

raindrop v2

?  Are you saying that GMK TA should be renamed Raindrop V2?  Or that it looks the same as V2?  Cause there was already a Raindrop V2.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 19 August 2015, 11:31:01
I know it is probably just me, but I think the teal in GMK TA looks like bird **** and I hate it.

raindrop v2

?  Are you saying that GMK TA should be renamed Raindrop V2?  Or that it looks the same as V2?  Cause there was already a Raindrop V2.
Ugh fine raindrop v3 then. But yes the joke I'm making is that it's raindrop
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 19 August 2015, 11:32:03
I know it is probably just me, but I think the teal in GMK TA looks like bird **** and I hate it.

raindrop v2

?  Are you saying that GMK TA should be renamed Raindrop V2?  Or that it looks the same as V2?  Cause there was already a Raindrop V2.
Ugh fine raindrop v3 then. But yes the joke I'm making is that it's raindrop

Well I hope I've successfully derailed that joke.  >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: spectre on Fri, 28 August 2015, 14:59:45
5. I hate gamer looking or branded keyboards (razer, corsair, logitech, ect.)

Isn't that a popular opinion around here?
Anyway, yeah, they look like something designed by teenagers who think its "rad".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 28 August 2015, 23:25:53
i hope the artisan bubble pops soon.

tired of seeing new "makers" bringing out **** just to get a quick buck.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TastaturenAuslese on Fri, 28 August 2015, 23:50:16
i hope the artisan bubble pops soon.

tired of seeing new "makers" bringing out **** just to get a quick buck.
demik pls.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 28 August 2015, 23:53:01
i hope the artisan bubble pops soon.

tired of seeing new "makers" bringing out **** just to get a quick buck.
demik pls.

it is kinda silly seeing new makers selling sub par caps for $20+
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TastaturenAuslese on Fri, 28 August 2015, 23:53:58
i hope the artisan bubble pops soon.

tired of seeing new "makers" bringing out **** just to get a quick buck.
demik pls.

it is kinda silly seeing new makers selling sub par caps for $20+
Agree with that doe. I like the new makers who start out selling at reasonable prices like $5 to cover materials, or even giving away their first trial keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jd29 on Sat, 29 August 2015, 16:34:59
Why are the rightmost keys in the main cluster so long? This kills the symmetry. How things ought to be:

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 29 August 2015, 18:27:47
Why are the rightmost keys in the main cluster so long? This kills the symmetry. How things ought to be:
What, are you Johnny Ive or something?  :rolleyes: You just described the layout of an Apple keyboard.

On ISO versions of the Apple keyboards, the widest part of the vertical Enter key is 1 u ... That key is a crime against good design.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fire Brand on Sat, 29 August 2015, 19:59:12
i hope the artisan bubble pops soon.

tired of seeing new "makers" bringing out **** just to get a quick buck.
On this note I will share my opinion Clacks are meh, I have just been plinking mine around my desk most of today not a crack at the artist  just think they aren't as good as everyone makes them seem :p but if clack makes some tiddly winks that stuff with be off the walls cool!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 30 August 2015, 13:11:10
i hope the artisan bubble pops soon.

tired of seeing new "makers" bringing out **** just to get a quick buck.
On this note I will share my opinion Clacks are meh, I have just been plinking mine around my desk most of today not a crack at the artist  just think they aren't as good as everyone makes them seem :p but if clack makes some tiddly winks that stuff with be off the walls cool!

He easily has the best color choices. They were all dope as ****.



But then brocaps did the space ****. Took the color crown ez.
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KatzenKinder on Sun, 30 August 2015, 14:05:34
i hope the artisan bubble pops soon.

tired of seeing new "makers" bringing out **** just to get a quick buck.
On this note I will share my opinion Clacks are meh, I have just been plinking mine around my desk most of today not a crack at the artist  just think they aren't as good as everyone makes them seem :p but if clack makes some tiddly winks that stuff with be off the walls cool!

Ehhh if you don't like it that much you can give to me :v
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 30 August 2015, 17:30:27
i hope the artisan bubble pops soon.

tired of seeing new "makers" bringing out **** just to get a quick buck.
On this note I will share my opinion Clacks are meh, I have just been plinking mine around my desk most of today not a crack at the artist  just think they aren't as good as everyone makes them seem :p but if clack makes some tiddly winks that stuff with be off the walls cool!

The skulls were good once upon a time, and I can understand the respect Clack gets. But his Ogres are really where it's at. The first skull I got was out the door pretty quick once I saw it in person. The design just doesn't hold up well offline to me, but they definitely look great with a macro lens.

I second new "artisans" starting out at the $20+ range ridiculous. Hell I dislike that the "big name" artisans are now retailing at higher prices. But I'm not super familiar with material costs so who am I to say. And I'll gladly pay for the impressive work Binge and Bro have been pulling out lately (and without a doubt Hipster if he decides to make caps again).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cgbuen on Mon, 31 August 2015, 02:44:01
Single-toned keysets should be run more often than they have been. While I like the original Cherry beige scheme, any new two(or more)-toned keysets are starting to get really stale.

Also, ascribing qualities of food to keycaps or other keyboard goods, particularly comments like "that looks delicious", is tacky and embarassing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 31 August 2015, 03:08:54
Why are the rightmost keys in the main cluster so long? This kills the symmetry. How things ought to be:

(Attachment Link)

QWERTY is inherently asymmetrical, particularly as regards the home row. If you centre the keyboard around F and J, you realise the whole right side is 1.5x too wide, forcing you to angle your hands to the left when you have the main alpha area centre on to the display.

Here's a "balanced" layout:

[attach=1]

But as you can see, we have to chop off 2 keys to make it fit.

This can be fixed by splitting the spacebar to provide more keys and then you get this:

[attach=2]

Which has the added benefits of:
1. not requiring stabilisers AT ALL :D
2. making use of the thumbs more effectively.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keshley on Mon, 31 August 2015, 07:36:31
Mini-USB. It's not a better standard people!

First of all, I don't understand all the people who complain about micro-USB. Be glad they're using a standardized cable! It really bugs me when a vendor uses a non-standardized cable, just one more thing that'll end up costing me extra money.

But please, get over mini-USB. For the past several years, I've had zero mini-USB devices. Except for my stupid keyboards! What the hell. I don't want to have to keep track of yet another cable end. Move out of the '00s please, and let us only need one connection type! Chances are if you're breaking a micro-USB cable, or port, you'd be breaking the mini-USB cable/port too!

And the argument that micro-USB is flawed in regards to lateral movement? Seriously, what are you doing with your keyboard? Its a static object. Why is there lateral movement on your keyboard cable??? Are you swinging it like a flail!? That's like arguing that nobody should buy a Prius because it can't tow a boat.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 31 August 2015, 07:45:40
If you plug and unplug your keyboard a lot, a mini seems more solid, also when you rotate through multiple boards, it's better to have a standard.

for sure if you plug it once and never move/unplug it, the connector doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: apolotary on Mon, 31 August 2015, 07:50:57
And the argument that micro-USB is flawed in regards to lateral movement? Seriously, what are you doing with your keyboard? Its a static object. Why is there lateral movement on your keyboard cable??? Are you swinging it like a flail!? That's like arguing that nobody should buy a Prius because it can't tow a boat.

I haven't done any jerky movements with cable or whatsoever and still got this:

(http://i.imgur.com/DGyCLuP.jpg) (http://imgur.com/DGyCLuP)

Also I would like to complain about "sturdy" build quality that Matias keyboard has, as I'm not the only user who's having that problem with SMD-mounted micro-USB connector
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keshley on Mon, 31 August 2015, 08:47:22
I used mini for years when every peripheral used it. Broken a couple. Mini I have yet to break. Anecdotal, sure, but if you make a low quality plug, it doesn't matter what form factor it is, it'll break.

In other words, if the manufacturer uses a low quality micro plug, it'll break. But, if they use a low quality mini-plug? It'll still break.

One of my keyboards travel, so the cable gets detached a lot. It still gets plugged and unplugged a whole lot less than, say, my tablet. Which is a couple years old, and uses a quality micro plug. It feels plenty solid, just like the day I bought it.

And let's be realistic here: If number of insertions and strength of the connector were as big a factor as people like to claim, we'd be using neither, but rather full-size USB-A or USB-B. Not like there isn't room on the back of a keyboard for them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: apolotary on Mon, 31 August 2015, 09:04:55
Break the cycle, go Bluetooth

and then have problems with mini/micro chargers, batteries, connectivity, protocols, and tons of other crap instead  :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keshley on Mon, 31 August 2015, 09:22:06
I don't have any issues with either connector, I just don't like how keyboards seem to be stuck in the past. Stick with the current standard, which isn't mini-USB.

Hopefully USB-C will be adopted fairly quickly, as it seems to be superior to both. It has the same expected insertion cycles of micro-USB, slightly thicker than micro-USB, and, of course, orientation agnostic. And doesn't require USB 3.1, so can be used on 'older' USB 2.0 ports as well, which most people have.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 31 August 2015, 09:30:43
I just don't like how keyboards seem to be stuck in the past.

In the future, you might actually appreciate a real keyboard from the past.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 31 August 2015, 09:43:27
And the argument that micro-USB is flawed in regards to lateral movement? Seriously, what are you doing with your keyboard? Its a static object. Why is there lateral movement on your keyboard cable??? Are you swinging it like a flail!? That's like arguing that nobody should buy a Prius because it can't tow a boat.

I haven't done any jerky movements with cable or whatsoever and still got this:

(http://i.imgur.com/DGyCLuP.jpg) (http://imgur.com/DGyCLuP)

Also I would like to complain about "sturdy" build quality that Matias keyboard has, as I'm not the only user who's having that problem with SMD-mounted micro-USB connector

That's a flawed soldering job. The metal tabs from the case didn't have solder adhered to them properly (cold joints). I'd sent it back for at least a refund of the board.

MicroUSB is rated for more insertions and removals and is more solid overall. Nokia switched pretty early in the phone scene and didn't look back. I think keyboards should have, too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keshley on Mon, 31 August 2015, 09:56:11
I just don't like how keyboards seem to be stuck in the past.

In the future, you might actually appreciate a real keyboard from the past.


I get what you're saying  :)

Older != better.
By the same token, newer != better.

I think a lot of people jump through a lot of hoops to get older items to work with their modern systems. Sometimes that's because it offers some advantage/feature the newer items don't, sometimes its rose-tinted.

I think we tend to misjudge how good some things were. I know I've picked up something I remember from years ago and though "Wow, seemed a lot nicer back in the day."

Now, generally speaking, I will say that a lot of gear was over-engineered 20+ years ago, so tends to feel more solid, and last way longer than was intended.

From a keyboard point of view, I don't miss AT or PS/2 connectors. I certainly don't miss the massive IBM Model M keyboards (waste of space IMO). I never liked the 101+ key layout anyways. I do think that the keycap quality has gone done in quality a lot. But I'm comparing it to the typewriters of 40 years ago, not the keyboards of 30 years ago. I also think a Topre TKL version of the original MS Natural Keyboard would be heaven, so take all my opinions with a grain of salt (as should be done with any opinion)  :p

I'm not using a 30 year old PC, or even a 5 year old PC. I can get the same, or similar typing experience I've had in the past 20 years from a new board just as well as an old one. I don't think asking for a modern option for connecting my input devices is asking a lot.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: inanis on Mon, 31 August 2015, 15:43:07
I'm not using a 30 year old PC, or even a 5 year old PC. I can get the same, or similar typing experience I've had in the past 20 years from a new board just as well as an old one. I don't think asking for a modern option for connecting my input devices is asking a lot.

To be fair though, no one is saying you have to stick with a PS/2 connection just because that is what came with the board originally. I use an SSK at home, and it uses a USB cable. Sure as hell didn't come that way from the factory! I have the original PS/2 cable as well, in the event I need it. As for a more complex switch, like taking a terminal board and converting it, the challenge is part of the appeal. Some people like to tinker with with things and make them their own. I can understand that isn't for everyone.  Older boards can give you a totally different typing experience. Is it tinged with a bit of nostalgia? Sure, but I think that is part of the experience.

As for unpopular opinions, I think keysets like Dolch and Classic Beige are boring as hell. They have their place, and they do look timeless and classic and all that, but there is no excitement to it at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 31 August 2015, 15:45:41
As for unpopular opinions, I think keysets like Dolch and Classic Beige are boring as hell. They have their place, and they do look timeless and classic and all that, but there is no excitement to it at all.

i hope the artisan bubble pops soon.

tired of seeing new "makers" bringing out **** just to get a quick buck.
demik pls.

it is kinda silly seeing new makers selling sub par caps for $20+

Ya'll read my mind exactly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: apolotary on Mon, 31 August 2015, 17:11:39
And the argument that micro-USB is flawed in regards to lateral movement? Seriously, what are you doing with your keyboard? Its a static object. Why is there lateral movement on your keyboard cable??? Are you swinging it like a flail!? That's like arguing that nobody should buy a Prius because it can't tow a boat.

I haven't done any jerky movements with cable or whatsoever and still got this:

(http://i.imgur.com/DGyCLuP.jpg) (http://imgur.com/DGyCLuP)

Also I would like to complain about "sturdy" build quality that Matias keyboard has, as I'm not the only user who's having that problem with SMD-mounted micro-USB connector

That's a flawed soldering job. The metal tabs from the case didn't have solder adhered to them properly (cold joints). I'd sent it back for at least a refund of the board.

MicroUSB is rated for more insertions and removals and is more solid overall. Nokia switched pretty early in the phone scene and didn't look back. I think keyboards should have, too.

I bought it used so no refunds for me. Luckily a friend of mine agreed to replace it for me, so I hope everything will work out
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alldayrelief on Mon, 31 August 2015, 18:15:10
-I dislike artisan caps and would never let one near my keyboard. They look tacky and give off a vibe similar to that of a large and unnecessary spoiler on a car
-Backlit keyboards are pointless. I'd compare their utility to that of car underglow
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Mon, 31 August 2015, 18:17:01
-I dislike artisan caps and would never let one near my keyboard. They look tacky and give off a vibe similar to that of a large and unnecessary spoiler on a car
-Backlit keyboards are pointless. I'd compare their utility to that of car underglow


Electricity is also dumb, we shouldn't do anything.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 31 August 2015, 18:22:22
The skulls were good once upon a time, and I can understand the respect Clack gets. But his Ogres are really where it's at. The first skull I got was out the door pretty quick once I saw it in person. The design just doesn't hold up well offline to me, but they definitely look great with a macro lens.

I actually had the opposite experience.  :))  I was one of the "artisans are stupid, why would I put that on my keyboard" people for the longest time, and Binge broke that cycle with his work.  But I still wasn't sold on Clacks.  It wasn't until I borrowed one, put it on my keyboard, and *touched* it that it all clicked for me (hehe, pun).  ^-^  They just feel so...right... And then of course I fell in love with the design and went off the deep end of artisan caps...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Mon, 31 August 2015, 18:27:18
I'm not using a 30 year old PC, or even a 5 year old PC. I can get the same, or similar typing experience I've had in the past 20 years from a new board just as well as an old one. I don't think asking for a modern option for connecting my input devices is asking a lot.

To be fair though, no one is saying you have to stick with a PS/2 connection just because that is what came with the board originally. I use an SSK at home, and it uses a USB cable. Sure as hell didn't come that way from the factory! I have the original PS/2 cable as well, in the event I need it. As for a more complex switch, like taking a terminal board and converting it, the challenge is part of the appeal. Some people like to tinker with with things and make them their own. I can understand that isn't for everyone.  Older boards can give you a totally different typing experience. Is it tinged with a bit of nostalgia? Sure, but I think that is part of the experience.

As for unpopular opinions, I think keysets like Dolch and Classic Beige are boring as hell. They have their place, and they do look timeless and classic and all that, but there is no excitement to it at all.
yeah im real ****ing tired of all things dolch.

dolch this dolch that.

rehashing same keysets over and over.

ffs let it go already.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: apolotary on Tue, 01 September 2015, 05:07:05
Galaxy keycap set color scheme is meh at best. I also don't get why massdrop keeps re-running it every few months.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: spectre on Tue, 01 September 2015, 06:42:02
A contradiction is not an argument.
Yes it is :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Jokrik on Tue, 01 September 2015, 06:56:22
I'm bored having my keyboard , on the table and just being pressed over and over again
can't we do anything else with it?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Tue, 01 September 2015, 07:46:42
Most sculpted artisans are ugly. Blanks are beautiful.

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8613/16487589092_0db1b948d3_m.jpg)

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8634/16487589552_b061a3b357_m.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fire Brand on Tue, 01 September 2015, 08:19:31
I'm not using a 30 year old PC, or even a 5 year old PC. I can get the same, or similar typing experience I've had in the past 20 years from a new board just as well as an old one. I don't think asking for a modern option for connecting my input devices is asking a lot.

To be fair though, no one is saying you have to stick with a PS/2 connection just because that is what came with the board originally. I use an SSK at home, and it uses a USB cable. Sure as hell didn't come that way from the factory! I have the original PS/2 cable as well, in the event I need it. As for a more complex switch, like taking a terminal board and converting it, the challenge is part of the appeal. Some people like to tinker with with things and make them their own. I can understand that isn't for everyone.  Older boards can give you a totally different typing experience. Is it tinged with a bit of nostalgia? Sure, but I think that is part of the experience.

As for unpopular opinions, I think keysets like Dolch and Classic Beige are boring as hell. They have their place, and they do look timeless and classic and all that, but there is no excitement to it at all.
yeah im real ****ing tired of all things dolch.

dolch this dolch that.

rehashing same keysets over and over.

ffs let it go already.
Agreed dolch is boreing but that said Inlike Olivetti just because of the blue, anything and everything beige can go away it's a horrible colour and I don't understand why people like it so much .-.

On the case of micro vs mini they both suck I would rather have a USB A or B connector now that would be nice!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: spectre on Tue, 01 September 2015, 10:44:58
People who use anything bigger than a 60% should use the mouse on the left side, to distribute better the inputs between the hands.
Its super easy, after two weeks its natural. Or maybe the fact that I'm ambidextrous helps me a lot, but everyone should try at least.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 01 September 2015, 11:04:33
People who use anything bigger than a 60% should use the mouse on the left side, to distribute better the inputs between the hands.
Its super easy, after two weeks its natural. Or maybe the fact that I'm ambidextrous helps me a lot literally makes this at all viable
FTFY
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 01 September 2015, 11:18:45
I think that having a 100% keyboard is just fine.  You actually save 4" if you have an SSK, but you forego the numpad.  So, you get a new numpad that takes up another 4" of space to make up for it.
In my opinion, all you are doing is sacrificing what you need for a little more space.
The solution may be getting a 4" wider desk.  You can also tier, which I have mentioned but nobody does that anymore.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 01 September 2015, 11:25:40
The problem with full size keyboards isn't the size, it's the ergonomics.  If the num pad was on the left, most problems would be solved.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: spectre on Tue, 01 September 2015, 11:27:09
People who use anything bigger than a 60% should use the mouse on the left side, to distribute better the inputs between the hands.
Its super easy, after two weeks its natural. Or maybe the fact that I'm ambidextrous helps me a lot literally makes this at all viable
FTFY

Invert the mouse buttons and try it. It will all make sense  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 01 September 2015, 11:27:52
People who use anything bigger than a 60% should use the mouse on the left side, to distribute better the inputs between the hands.
Its super easy, after two weeks its natural. Or maybe the fact that I'm ambidextrous helps me a lot literally makes this at all viable
FTFY

Invert the mouse buttons and try it. It will all make sense  :D

it still feels like I'm controlling the mouse with my foot
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trees on Tue, 01 September 2015, 11:29:44
People who use anything bigger than a 60% should use the mouse on the left side, to distribute better the inputs between the hands.
Its super easy, after two weeks its natural. Or maybe the fact that I'm ambidextrous helps me a lot literally makes this at all viable
FTFY

Invert the mouse buttons and try it. It will all make sense  :D

it still feels like I'm controlling the mouse with my foot

Thats actually an even better idea. Foot mice.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: spectre on Tue, 01 September 2015, 11:35:53
I don't just flip my spacebar. I flip my whole bottom row.

I flip the arrow and WASD keys to the "centre", so it looks like a little dome, and fells nice when gaming.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 01 September 2015, 11:41:15
I'm bored having my keyboard , on the table and just being pressed over and over again
can't we do anything else with it?

If you buy a heavier keyboard....say a KMAC or an IBM, you could do some light weight lifting with it in your home.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fishcola on Wed, 02 September 2015, 00:12:25
I'm bored having my keyboard , on the table and just being pressed over and over again
can't we do anything else with it?

If you buy a heavier keyboard....say a KMAC or an IBM, you could do some light weight lifting with it in your home.

If you have a laptop from before laptop anorexia became fashionable, put it in your backpack and take a walk :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sth on Wed, 02 September 2015, 09:15:03
unpopular opinion: light keyboards don't feel cheap, heavy keyboards feel overpriced
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 03 September 2015, 06:03:52
Another one of mine: I can't understand the obsession with buying keysets. To me, the fun is in building and tinkering with a board, buying a keyset is just making a purchase, there's nothing interesting about that, no matter how good it looks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: spectre on Thu, 03 September 2015, 07:52:40
People who use anything bigger than a 60% should use the mouse on the left side, to distribute better the inputs between the hands.
Its super easy, after two weeks its natural. Or maybe the fact that I'm ambidextrous helps me a lot literally makes this at all viable
FTFY

Invert the mouse buttons and try it. It will all make sense  :D

it still feels like I'm controlling the mouse with my foot

Now just give it two weeks :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Thu, 03 September 2015, 11:51:21
Another one of mine: I can't understand the obsession with buying keysets. To me, the fun is in building and tinkering with a board, buying a keyset is just making a purchase, there's nothing interesting about that, no matter how good it looks.

It's a fleeting pursuit of novelty. In my experience, you get the feeling of having something exciting and new, and then a couple weeks later it seems "boring" and you're back to looking at more keysets. Having moved to Topre, I kind of think the paucity of keycap options might actually be a good thing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 03 September 2015, 12:06:07
Another one of mine: I can't understand the obsession with buying keysets. To me, the fun is in building and tinkering with a board, buying a keyset is just making a purchase, there's nothing interesting about that, no matter how good it looks.

It's a fleeting pursuit of novelty. In my experience, you get the feeling of having something exciting and new, and then a couple weeks later it seems "boring" and you're back to looking at more keysets. Having moved to Topre, I kind of think the paucity of keycap options might actually be a good thing.
It this vein, I prefer building my boards to look interesting, because that gives me a lasting feeling of achievement in the cool-ness of their appearance, and then I stick with simple, complimentary, high quality keysets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Firefly303 on Fri, 04 September 2015, 22:05:08
Filco is overrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 04 September 2015, 22:24:28
Filco is overrated.

That would have been edgy like 4 years ago.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: apolotary on Fri, 04 September 2015, 23:13:32
Cherry MX Clears feel like stiff rubber domes with long key travel
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nephiel on Sat, 05 September 2015, 02:57:20
Hard wrist rests. I don't even.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sat, 05 September 2015, 08:45:25
This isn't even edgy anymore, but Cherry-branded switches suck.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: filphil on Sat, 05 September 2015, 09:02:05
This isn't even edgy anymore, but Cherry-branded switches suck.

Maybe if you said Gateron sucked
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sat, 05 September 2015, 09:44:39
This isn't even edgy anymore, but Cherry-branded switches suck.

Maybe if you said Gateron sucked
Well yeah, I'm saying the opposite. Cherry brand suck, not Cherry footprint in general
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: samhwang on Sun, 06 September 2015, 02:03:48
Although Cherry is getting behind the competition nowadays, particularly Gaterons, I would say that Cherry is still viable in the long run.

This is based on mostly my feelings (and a friend's). When he opened up the switches, he said that the copper leaf on the Gaterons are much thinner and the copper notch or crosspoint on the gaterons is also thinner as well. (no pics right now since it was a random discussion)

TL;DR: IMO, the Cherry MX clones will definitely die out comparing to the original Cherry MX in the long run.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: invisuu on Mon, 07 September 2015, 02:31:16
The stock anti grip feet are perfect on the HHKB, because it's lightweight I can adjust it's position a lot which I do frequently anyway and it's easier to do on HHKB than any other board I ever used so far.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: retrochick on Mon, 07 September 2015, 03:04:10
worn in vintage clears are better than ergo clears
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: logomachy on Mon, 07 September 2015, 06:12:05
They're unwieldy and deprecated. Mine have all been repurposed as "desk furniture." And I only plug them in to turn on the LEDs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Jokrik on Mon, 07 September 2015, 10:25:29
What's the point of non aluminum keyboard case :(

Al is much much better, pc case too...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 07 September 2015, 10:27:27
What's the point of non aluminum keyboard case :(

Al is much much better, pc case too...
Agreed, unless you want bottom/side lighting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 07 September 2015, 10:36:12
What's the point of non aluminum keyboard case :(

Al is much much better, pc case too...

What's the point of aluminum keyboard case
it just a keyboard
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 07 September 2015, 10:54:34
it just a keyboard
Truer words have never been spoken in all of Geekhack.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Firefly303 on Mon, 07 September 2015, 14:59:23

I didn't realize this was the edgy thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dutC4 on Mon, 07 September 2015, 15:04:01
 :blank:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Firefly303 on Mon, 07 September 2015, 15:05:34

I didn't realize this was the edgy thread.
its just a keyboard -written on my 250 dollar hhkb that was produced for twelve dollars


Outfitted with $20 a piece custom keycaps.

In all honesty, the cable for my filco broke and im too lazy to fix it atm so i went out and bought a $6 keyboard from walmart.

.....theres no difference.


Let the hate flow in.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: s0ckpupp3t on Mon, 07 September 2015, 21:52:57
Late to the party and a relative newb/lurker but I'll have a go:

1.  "Touch typing" only means that you can type without looking at your keyboard.  It has NOTHING to do with whether or not you bottom out.  It doesn't mean you're gently caressing the keys on each down stroke as you would a virgin lover.

2.  Everyone talking about how not bottoming out is the pinnacle of typing are just part of a misinformed cult who actually don't type for a living and therefore can spend their time "perfecting" their actuation distance rather than banging out lots of text efficiently.

3. People who say that MX reds are too light, complain about increased mistakes when typing on reds and say that keys frequently get depressed on accident when resting their fingers on the keys just never learned how to type properly.

4.  If you don't know how to touch type at least 45 WPM, you treat mechanical keyboards as a weird fetish object rather than liking them for actual utilitarian reasons like durability and ergonomics.

5. The Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Keyboard is more ergonomic than any tenkeyless mechanical keyboard, even with its crappy scissor switch membrane keys.

 ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dutC4 on Mon, 07 September 2015, 23:00:05
 :blank:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 08 September 2015, 00:25:26
(http://cdn.overclock.net/8/86/860645cd_38550_xlargenss_ndo4190.jpeg)

i love this dell keyboard
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Firefly303 on Tue, 08 September 2015, 11:16:35
Show Image
(http://cdn.overclock.net/8/86/860645cd_38550_xlargenss_ndo4190.jpeg)


i love this dell keyboard

Yas.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 08 September 2015, 12:17:27
Show Image
(http://cdn.overclock.net/8/86/860645cd_38550_xlargenss_ndo4190.jpeg)


i love this dell keyboard

Why?  I could probably get a bunch of them at the Outlet nearby for really cheap if I wanted.  I never liked those keyboards.  The Keytronic I have is better than that thing.  Ugh!  Are you serious?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 08 September 2015, 12:19:48
Show Image
(http://cdn.overclock.net/8/86/860645cd_38550_xlargenss_ndo4190.jpeg)


i love this dell keyboard

Why?  I could probably get a bunch of them at the Outlet nearby for really cheap if I wanted.  I never liked those keyboards.  The Keytronic I have is better than that thing.  Ugh!  Are you serious?

it has all the keys i need, doesn't feel terrible, all keys are in normal size, and it is cheap
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 08 September 2015, 12:22:01
Show Image
(http://cdn.overclock.net/8/86/860645cd_38550_xlargenss_ndo4190.jpeg)


i love this dell keyboard

Why?  I could probably get a bunch of them at the Outlet nearby for really cheap if I wanted.  I never liked those keyboards.  The Keytronic I have is better than that thing.  Ugh!  Are you serious?

it has all the keys i need, doesn't feel terrible, all keys are in normal size, and it is cheap

True, it is cheap.  You won't have any legends on it after a while.  It feels like a, well, rubberdome keyboard.

Edit: I had to make an addendum to this comment.  I have used these in the past, and I can tell you from personal experience that after a period of time, not only do you lose your legends, but then keys will stop registering, *ESPECIALLY* on the number row.  It is flimsy, flexes terribly, and has lousy feedback after using it for a while.  I'm sorry, but I really had to make a comment before more people actually find these things to be "great" keyboards.  They are anything but.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 08 September 2015, 12:31:21
ಠ_ಠ
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Tue, 08 September 2015, 16:52:09
it is cheap
The chief concern of Geekhackers everywhere
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 08 September 2015, 17:00:22
Show Image
(http://cdn.overclock.net/8/86/860645cd_38550_xlargenss_ndo4190.jpeg)


i love this dell keyboard

Why?  I could probably get a bunch of them at the Outlet nearby for really cheap if I wanted.  I never liked those keyboards.  The Keytronic I have is better than that thing.  Ugh!  Are you serious?

it has all the keys i need, doesn't feel terrible, all keys are in normal size, and it is cheap

True, it is cheap.  You won't have any legends on it after a while.  It feels like a, well, rubberdome keyboard.

Edit: I had to make an addendum to this comment.  I have used these in the past, and I can tell you from personal experience that after a period of time, not only do you lose your legends, but then keys will stop registering, *ESPECIALLY* on the number row.  It is flimsy, flexes terribly, and has lousy feedback after using it for a while.  I'm sorry, but I really had to make a comment before more people actually find these things to be "great" keyboards.  They are anything but.

 :)) They are great keyboard for me, I know, probably just for me. 
I have used mine for around 5 years and it is still working perfectly.  The alpha legends are all disappeared, luckily most of the number row keys still have legend on it.  The feeling have changed compare to 5 years ago, but it doesn't feel too bad.  But yeah, I think most people think it feels like ****.
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheebs on Tue, 08 September 2015, 17:18:46
The problem with full size keyboards isn't the size, it's the ergonomics.  If the num pad was on the left, most problems would be solved.

It's not ergonomic, though (for me).  Maybe if you're playing a game?  Do you always have your hand on the mouse when you're computing?  I have mine on the keyboard.  I've seen no such "ergonomic" benefits from using a TKL keyboard.  60% is enough to make a significant difference, I think.  I like 60% mostly for portability and dramatically increased desk space, though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Tue, 08 September 2015, 19:03:12
Vintage Cherry boards look nicer than most new boards, including a good portion of kustoms.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 09 September 2015, 19:55:03
Not sure how unpopular this is, but I think DSA Dolch may be genuinely one of the worst keycap sets ever.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Wed, 09 September 2015, 20:39:21
one needs at most two keyboards. three is the limit for any sane person.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Wed, 09 September 2015, 20:40:52
Not sure how unpopular this is, but I think DSA Dolch may be genuinely one of the worst keycap sets ever.

Not sure about the Dolch part but DSA in general is definitely not for me..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 09 September 2015, 20:42:33
Not sure how unpopular this is, but I think DSA Dolch may be genuinely one of the worst keycap sets ever.

Not sure about the Dolch part but DSA in general is definitely not for me..
I agree, I find basically all DSA sets nasty, with the exception of probably valentine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 09 September 2015, 21:51:42
DSA seems appealing to an extent, but not appealing enough. There's almost an equal amount of attraction and repulsion I have when it comes to DSA.

As far as unpopular opinions? Alps SKCM/L switches are far better than any Cherry MX switch and things would've been a lot more amazing to see Alps as the paradigm over Cherry MX.

Don't get me wrong; I like Cherry MX, but after trying Alps complicated switches, it's hard to really care as much for them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 09 September 2015, 22:07:57
As far as unpopular opinions? Alps SKCM/L switches are far better than any Cherry MX switch and things would've been a lot more amazing to see Alps as the paradigm over Cherry MX.
Not as an unpopular opinion as you'd think. In fact I wouldn't call it one at all, there are tons of people that swear by alps. The problem is most people haven't tried them so they can't make an informed decision one way or the other
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 09 September 2015, 22:13:13
As far as unpopular opinions? Alps SKCM/L switches are far better than any Cherry MX switch and things would've been a lot more amazing to see Alps as the paradigm over Cherry MX.
Not as an unpopular opinion as you'd think. In fact I wouldn't call it one at all, there are tons of people that swear by alps. The problem is most people haven't tried them so they can't make an informed decision one way or the other

That's a good point, my good sir. Though I'd say that it's at least not a popular opinion, but more so based out of obscurity than anything negative, pretty much like you said. The accessibility when it comes to having an Alps keyboard is very limited these days. Either vintages, Matias, or GB-limited keyboards like the Infinity and certain customs.

The world needs more Alps love.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 09 September 2015, 22:16:21
As far as unpopular opinions? Alps SKCM/L switches are far better than any Cherry MX switch and things would've been a lot more amazing to see Alps as the paradigm over Cherry MX.
Not as an unpopular opinion as you'd think. In fact I wouldn't call it one at all, there are tons of people that swear by alps. The problem is most people haven't tried them so they can't make an informed decision one way or the other

That's a good point, my good sir. Though I'd say that it's at least not a popular opinion, but more so based out of obscurity than anything negative, pretty much like you said. The accessibility when it comes to having an Alps keyboard is very limited these days. Either vintages, Matias, or GB-limited keyboards like the Infinity and certain customs.

The world needs more Alps love.

Although luckily for alps lovers it seems as thought there's been a conscious effort made to accommodate them, with boards that have alps support. Wouldn't be surprised to see even more in the future
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 09 September 2015, 22:18:11
As far as unpopular opinions? Alps SKCM/L switches are far better than any Cherry MX switch and things would've been a lot more amazing to see Alps as the paradigm over Cherry MX.
Not as an unpopular opinion as you'd think. In fact I wouldn't call it one at all, there are tons of people that swear by alps. The problem is most people haven't tried them so they can't make an informed decision one way or the other

That's a good point, my good sir. Though I'd say that it's at least not a popular opinion, but more so based out of obscurity than anything negative, pretty much like you said. The accessibility when it comes to having an Alps keyboard is very limited these days. Either vintages, Matias, or GB-limited keyboards like the Infinity and certain customs.

The world needs more Alps love.

Although luckily for alps lovers it seems as thought there's been a conscious effort made to accommodate them, with boards that have alps support. Wouldn't be surprised to see even more in the future

Yeah, I'm really happy to see that and glad that I decided to step into the Alps game at just the right time. Hearing all those typing videos with blue alps is what did it for me. Heavenly.  ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Thu, 10 September 2015, 14:08:59
In 99.9% of applications, backlighting is hideous and makes keyboards look like the desktop equivalent of

(http://dailyurbanculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/54.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 10 September 2015, 14:10:27
In 99.9% of applications, backlighting is hideous and makes keyboards look like the desktop equivalent of

Show Image
(http://dailyurbanculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/54.jpg)


where'd u get a picture of my ride
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 10 September 2015, 14:18:38
Wrapped alphas cause cancer
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: absyrd on Thu, 10 September 2015, 14:20:25
In 99.9% of applications, backlighting is hideous and makes keyboards look like the desktop equivalent of

Show Image
(http://dailyurbanculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/54.jpg)


I can understand backlighting for the keys for people who actually need to look down in the dark. I don't hate on people who cannot type.

I cannot understand underlighting or whatever you want to call it like that car has.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 10 September 2015, 14:23:24
In 99.9% of applications, backlighting is hideous and makes keyboards look like the desktop equivalent of

Show Image
(http://dailyurbanculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/54.jpg)


I can understand backlighting for the keys for people who actually need to look down in the dark. I don't hate on people who cannot type.

I cannot understand underlighting or whatever you want to call it like that car has.

answer: rice
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Thu, 10 September 2015, 18:56:16
3 and 2 I mostly agree with... but the layout of HHKB is sort of personal preference. I personally don't like it.
60% boards + numpad is the way to go in regards to #1 IMO. then you get arrow keys + other keys for productivity, and numbers if you are into that.
and you can just put it away if you need the space more. but the main reason I guess is because I have my mouse + kb quite close to one another, and prefer space on the right side of the kb.
so it just feels nicer on the left side.


1. I cannot stand 60% boards either, I don't think they look attractive what so ever and although using a HHKB was an enjoyable experience, I couldn't ever use it as my daily driver.


2. I don't like TKL boards, I think they're too big, but I'm currently forcing myself to change because of bad past experiences with 75% boards.


3. I don't think the HHKB is over-rated per say, but I do think they're a bit overpriced.


4. I cannot stand blank keycaps, I think they are a waste of money and just do not look that appealing/attractive to me. (I'm currently using Leopold stealth keys, side printed keycaps essentially and I can only just tolerate using these).


5. I think a lot of these esc key replacements, the gas masks, the helmets and all that kind of stuff are just repulsive and why someone would want to put that on their keyboard in the first place is beyond me.

1.  I thought they were freaking stupid until I broke down and bought one.  My elbow, neck and shoulders thank me.   I thought I would really miss the number pad and arrows, but as long as there is a Fn button on the left side the arrows are just as easy to use.  Some boards like the v60 have an option to use the Shift, alt, ctrl cluster as arrow keys if that's a necessity.

2. I originally wanted something like a Race 2 or Keycool 84.  They are roughly 0.75" longer and wider than 60% boards.  However, they just have this cluttered look, less aesthetic.  If you are gonna make the sacrifice for the smaller board you may as well just get the 60% IMHO.

3.  I wonder if Topre switch use became more widespread if HH would lower the price to be more competitive.

4.  I love the look of blank keycaps or "Ninja" or "Stealth."  The ugliest thing is when the symbols are in stark contrast with the keycap color and large.  The Cooler Master Storm Quickfire comes to mind.  It's nice when the symbol color is close in color to the keys.  The only problem I would have with blank keycaps is don't know if I could drink a soda and type at the same time and find a key with one finger.

5.  I agree these are absolutely appalling.  I imagine they are not comfortable or ergonomic.  I think it's about personalizing your board.  Everybody and their mother may have V60 keyboard and these people want to be just a little bit different. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Fri, 11 September 2015, 08:58:56
In 99.9% of applications, backlighting is hideous and makes keyboards look like the desktop equivalent of

Show Image
(http://dailyurbanculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/54.jpg)


I can understand backlighting for the keys for people who actually need to look down in the dark. I don't hate on people who cannot type.

I cannot understand underlighting or whatever you want to call it like that car has.

answer: rice

The rice is real, bro.  Embrace it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Fri, 11 September 2015, 11:51:36
In 99.9% of applications, backlighting is hideous and makes keyboards look like the desktop equivalent of

Show Image
(http://dailyurbanculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/54.jpg)


I can understand backlighting for the keys for people who actually need to look down in the dark. I don't hate on people who cannot type.

I cannot understand underlighting or whatever you want to call it like that car has.

Sure, but nobody needs ugly ass RGB pulsing **** to see their keys, and most backlit mechanical keyboards seem about 10x brighter than they need to be, with light pouring out of every orifice. Apple laptop keyboards do it just right -- the bare minimum amount of illumination needed to see the letters.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Fri, 11 September 2015, 11:58:58
Quote
Sure, but nobody needs ugly ass RGB pulsing **** to see their keys, and most backlit mechanical keyboards seem about 10x brighter than they need to be, with light pouring out of every orifice. Apple laptop keyboards do it just right -- the bare minimum amount of illumination needed to see the letters.

Agreed, a lot of boards have insane amounts of illumination, I think that just comes with the territory for computers and peripherals.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shaussman on Sat, 12 September 2015, 01:52:01
The worst thing about LEDs- especially on a keyboard- is that they're distracting and draw the eye away from the screen, especially when you're like me and you prefer to use your PC in the dark.

Even on the lowest brightness level my Poseidon Z's backlighting glares at the edge of my vision and really hurts my PC usage experience.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Sat, 12 September 2015, 09:37:44
The worst thing about LEDs- especially on a keyboard- is that they're distracting and draw the eye away from the screen, especially when you're like me and you prefer to use your PC in the dark.

Even on the lowest brightness level my Poseidon Z's backlighting glares at the edge of my vision and really hurts my PC usage experience.
Yeah it's pretty much just a race to the most garish LEDs you can find. I'd much rather have something with a soft, even, white glow than incredibly bright rgb on each key
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 12 September 2015, 20:28:05
I don't ever actually look at my keyboard so my gon for example is more of a show off/conversation piece when I go to lans or whatever. My LZ has no leds but the 3 indicators, which is my primary board anyway. Sometimes it's nice to have some flashy **** laying around just for the sake of having it, doesn't matter to me if I don't ever see it
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RELLIK on Sun, 13 September 2015, 05:52:49
MX style keys are inferior scissor switches save their durability and customization. The keys travel too much.
Blues are the most annoying/overrated switch ever.
All keyboards should have numpad on the left side and if not, All keyboards should have 2 DIP switches for CapsLock to be Enter or disabled.
Quickfire TK damn good!
Dolch is a disease to be cleansed with fire.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 14 September 2015, 18:03:35
I am not going to lie, ISO is a superior layout to ANSI as far as layout goes. The only downside IMO is the keycap compatibility.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Mon, 14 September 2015, 18:06:23
I am not going to lie, ISO is a superior layout to ISO as far as layout goes. The only downside IMO is the keycap compatibility.
Heard it here folks. ISO beats ISO.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 14 September 2015, 18:09:59
I am not going to lie, ISO is a superior layout to ISO as far as layout goes. The only downside IMO is the keycap compatibility.
Heard it here folks. ISO beats ISO.
fixed :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 14 September 2015, 19:38:44
I am not going to lie, ISO is a superior layout to ANSI as far as layout goes. The only downside IMO is the keycap compatibility.
Could you elaborate on why you feel this way? I'm thinking of going ISO just so I can use my OG Cherry QWERTZ set in its entirety, but I just can't get over that ridiculous looking enter key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 14 September 2015, 19:53:27
I am not going to lie, ISO is a superior layout to ANSI as far as layout goes. The only downside IMO is the keycap compatibility.
Could you elaborate on why you feel this way? I'm thinking of going ISO just so I can use my OG Cherry QWERTZ set in its entirety, but I just can't get over that ridiculous looking enter key.
a tad bit more keys. It took me a few minutes to get used to the short lshift and the ISO enter, but I enjoy them more. Makes me feel like I have more keys. I have a French AZERTY layout and soon a QWERTZ layout coming. FWIW you don't have to actually make your board the way the keys are lol. Windows auto-works out the ISO layout. It just makes the 2 extra keys \|
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 14 September 2015, 19:57:56
I am not going to lie, ISO is a superior layout to ANSI as far as layout goes. The only downside IMO is the keycap compatibility.
Could you elaborate on why you feel this way? I'm thinking of going ISO just so I can use my OG Cherry QWERTZ set in its entirety, but I just can't get over that ridiculous looking enter key.
FWIW you don't have to actually make your board the way the keys are lol. Windows auto-works out the ISO layout. It just makes the 2 extra keys \|
I know, but there's something pristine about using the whole set just the way it was meant to be used. I'm already planning on a tsangan bottom row just for that purpose.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 14 September 2015, 20:08:59
I am not going to lie, ISO is a superior layout to ANSI as far as layout goes. The only downside IMO is the keycap compatibility.
Could you elaborate on why you feel this way? I'm thinking of going ISO just so I can use my OG Cherry QWERTZ set in its entirety, but I just can't get over that ridiculous looking enter key.
FWIW you don't have to actually make your board the way the keys are lol. Windows auto-works out the ISO layout. It just makes the 2 extra keys \|
I know, but there's something pristine about using the whole set just the way it was meant to be used. I'm already planning on a tsangan bottom row just for that purpose.
yeah, wkl bottom layout it the best. But are you going to actually use it as qwertz?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 14 September 2015, 20:59:20
After seeing all the purist GMK GBs lately, this feels like an unpopular opinion: R5 profile is god awful and one of the few things you can do to immediately kill a GB in my eyes.

I am not going to lie, ISO is a superior layout to ANSI as far as layout goes. The only downside IMO is the keycap compatibility.
Could you elaborate on why you feel this way? I'm thinking of going ISO just so I can use my OG Cherry QWERTZ set in its entirety, but I just can't get over that ridiculous looking enter key.
FWIW you don't have to actually make your board the way the keys are lol. Windows auto-works out the ISO layout. It just makes the 2 extra keys \|
I know, but there's something pristine about using the whole set just the way it was meant to be used. I'm already planning on a tsangan bottom row just for that purpose.
yeah, wkl bottom layout it the best. But are you going to actually use it as qwertz?

WKL is horrible if you actually use your OS to its potential.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 15 September 2015, 01:44:10
It's not like I told you guys thousand times that ISO is better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Tue, 15 September 2015, 05:29:15
But are you going to actually use it as qwertz?
Sometimes, I'll be switching between QWERTZ and Dvorak depending on whether I'm typing English or German

WKL is horrible if you actually use your OS to its potential.
I totally agree with this actually, but I want the beauty of full Cherry doubleshots
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 15 September 2015, 07:42:48
Why no love for wkl but remapped os key to right alt?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 15 September 2015, 07:47:44
Works for ansi, ISO people generally need the right alt that is AltGr for us.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 15 September 2015, 07:53:04
Works for ansi, ISO people generally need the right alt that is AltGr for us.

forgot about isoland  :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 15 September 2015, 09:15:57
Why no love for wkl but remapped os key to right alt?

I like to be able to do one handed key combos. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 15 September 2015, 10:19:40
Why no love for wkl but remapped os key to right alt?

I like to be able to do one handed key combos.

Sounds like you need bigger hands.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 15 September 2015, 10:20:54
Why no love for wkl but remapped os key to right alt?

I like to be able to do one handed key combos.

Sounds like you need bigger hands.

or smaller keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 15 September 2015, 12:52:09
Works for ansi, ISO people generally need the right alt that is AltGr for us.
what does altgr do in iso?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 15 September 2015, 13:24:32
Works for ansi, ISO people generally need the right alt that is AltGr for us.
what does altgr do in iso?


It's a third layer that can be accessed with AltGr or Ctrl+Alt, on Azerty it gets me the bottom right keys:
(http://puu.sh/kco3r/8a443b8fc5.JPG)
(I think you know this board  :p)

AltGr+3 give me #
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trees on Tue, 15 September 2015, 14:51:16
Why no love for wkl but remapped os key to right alt?

I remapped mine to Scroll Lock. Useless key IMO. Works great.

I am not going to lie, ISO is a superior layout to ANSI as far as layout goes. The only downside IMO is the keycap compatibility.

I agree that i think ISO is an overall better seeming layout.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 15 September 2015, 17:58:28
Can anyone explain the superiority of ISO to me? I always thought ansi was better as the enter key is more reachable with the right pinky
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 15 September 2015, 19:17:41
Can anyone explain the superiority of ISO to me? I always thought ansi was better as the enter key is more reachable with the right pinky

I would not say that the ISO layout is superior to ANSI; instead, I would say that there are differences that change the way you use your keyboard. If you touch type, any change in the layout will demand you a learning curve; but, at the end, it may represent a slightly improved typing.

I am using now an ANSI layout with an ISO enter key, and I like it better than the original ANSI key; however, as you referred, the movement to reach the enter key is a little bit longer using ISO; but, for the same reason, it is more precise, at least in my case. With the ANSI enter key, sometimes, I key in the enter instead of the accent. For now on, I will try to use the same mixed ANSI with an ISO key layout.

There is an interesting short note on ANSI vs ISO layout here (https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/blog/2015/09/09/ansi-or-iso-which-keyboard-layout-is-more-ergonomic). It is an interesting reading. But, that not change the fact the simple rule: your keyboard, your preferred layout, period.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Tue, 15 September 2015, 19:39:54
I would agree with ISO being a superior layout if more boards were NOT like this:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/ISOIEC-9995-3-2010-Complementary-Latin-Group-Layout.png)

And were more like a hybrid of ANSI and ISO.

*i had an image, but it was more like ANSI. Basically, the left shift on ISO boards is too small for me to like it.





..

I just put my DSA set on my TKL. I don't find it quite as appealing as I do on a 60% board.

And just in case I haven't said this already, the right shift is too damn big. HHKB layouts solve this somewhat...but still.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 15 September 2015, 19:43:33
This is what I am using, an ANSI w/ISO enter layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ATXTider on Wed, 16 September 2015, 19:15:22
Hyperfuse didn't live up to the hype, the mod legends are too hard to read.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Wed, 16 September 2015, 21:23:45
This is really more of a keycap complaint, but people, seriously chill out with the SA sets (both interest checks and GBs). These will become the new DSA in no time if we keep seeing all of these sets. Maybe if there were more manufacturers making SA sets this wouldn't be as big of a deal, but it's annoying at the very least. At the rate things are going, GBs for sets will happen and it will be longer than ever before (Danger Zone is already set for Feb. 2016 next year - this is nuts for Massdrop standards)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Wed, 16 September 2015, 21:33:44
LOL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 16 September 2015, 21:34:05
LOL

LMAO
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 16 September 2015, 22:54:17
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trees on Thu, 17 September 2015, 00:56:22
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away :P

idk, i have some katz blanks that are pretty classy looking.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 17 September 2015, 05:42:19
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away :P

Except bronads which are suitable for even the strictest of workplaces  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Thu, 17 September 2015, 07:02:59
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
I would agree about artisans, but I think a lot of the recent GMK sets are professional enough, even Hyperfuse. And many SA sets (Hackd, Retro) are fine, too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 17 September 2015, 07:17:25
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
I would agree about artisans, but I think a lot of the recent GMK sets are professional enough, even Hyperfuse. And many SA sets (Hackd, Retro) are fine, too.

Yeah I think that Hyperfuse has a classy look to it. I think the accent keys might be pushing it in some workplaces but does anyone here even work at a place where they have been told off for how their keyboard looks?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:13:14
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
Show Image
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/tapatalk-emoji/emoji14.png)

I would agree about artisans, but I think a lot of the recent GMK sets are professional enough, even Hyperfuse. And many SA sets (Hackd, Retro) are fine, too.

Yeah I think that Hyperfuse has a classy look to it. I think the accent keys might be pushing it in some workplaces but does anyone here even work at a place where they have been told off for how their keyboard looks?

I think is more like you do not want to have that kind of attention. In my case the small 60% I am using, even when it has an standard beige set on it, calls unwanted attention.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:26:04
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away :P

I tend to agree with this.  For me, WoB + a splash of color is ideal at work.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:33:44
For me, my biggest professional hangup is packaging. Don't get me wrong, I love looking at some of the envelope artwork you guys make around here, but I have everything delivered to the office because the commercial address usually gets things here a day earlier, plus then I don't have to worry about expensive goods sitting unattended on my front stoop all day. The only downside is potential funny looks from coworkers when stuff arrives with drawings on it. I'm still trying to figure out the balance there. Maybe I should get a PO box for keyboard stuff?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:37:04
For me, my biggest professional hangup is packaging. Don't get me wrong, I love looking at some of the envelope artwork you guys make around here, but I have everything delivered to the office because the commercial address usually gets things here a day earlier, plus then I don't have to worry about expensive goods sitting unattended on my front stoop all day. The only downside is potential funny looks from coworkers when stuff arrives with drawings on it. I'm still trying to figure out the balance there. Maybe I should get a PO box for keyboard stuff?

Maybe it wouldn't hurt to have just the artisan caps sent to your home?  Those tend to be the only ones with drawings on the package.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:37:44
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
poor grooming or violating the dress code are one thing, but i honestly don't think there are any unspoken office rules regarding computer peripherals. personally speaking, i won't judge anyone for using a wacky looking keyboard or mouse, heck even beats get a pass from me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:49:08
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
poor grooming or violating the dress code are one thing, but i honestly don't think there are any unspoken office rules regarding computer peripherals. personally speaking, i won't judge anyone for using a wacky looking keyboard or mouse, heck even beats get a pass from me

Yeah the only problem is now I'm the "keyboard guy" at work and everyone always assumes that any package coming is automatically another keyboard. I don't think they mean badly about it all though and most people will ask me about them
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:58:25
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away :P

I tend to agree with this.  For me, WoB + a splash of color is ideal at work.

Brought Bow 60% with CMYW + pink spacebar at school.
I was the guy with a pink keyboard from that point.
Before that the board was wearing blanks (how do you even type?).
My dyseubs where looked upon too.
Only keyset I put on that keyboard that didn't raise attention was Granite (until I put RGB mods on...).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:58:59
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
Show Image
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/tapatalk-emoji/emoji14.png)

poor grooming or violating the dress code are one thing, but i honestly don't think there are any unspoken office rules regarding computer peripherals. personally speaking, i won't judge anyone for using a wacky looking keyboard or mouse, heck even beats get a pass from me

Yeah the only problem is now I'm the "keyboard guy" at work and everyone always assumes that any package coming is automatically another keyboard. I don't think they mean badly about it all though and most people will ask me about them

Well said. Any similarity to reality is just coincidence.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 17 September 2015, 09:05:37
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away :P

I tend to agree with this.  For me, WoB + a splash of color is ideal at work.

Brought Bow 60% with CMYW + pink spacebar at school.
I was the guy with a pink keyboard from that point.
Before that the board was wearing blanks (how do you even type?).
My dyseubs where looked upon too.
Only keyset I put on that keyboard that didn't raise attention was Granite (until I put RGB mods on...).

Haters be jelly of your cmyw goodness
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sth on Thu, 17 September 2015, 09:20:18
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
poor grooming or violating the dress code are one thing, but i honestly don't think there are any unspoken office rules regarding computer peripherals. personally speaking, i won't judge anyone for using a wacky looking keyboard or mouse, heck even beats get a pass from me

if we had a dress code i would be violating all three of these rules
but at least i dont smell bad when i 'forget' to shower
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MajorMajor on Thu, 17 September 2015, 12:18:33
I don't think most artisan keycaps would look out of place at work. I wouldn't go crazy with them though, you'd probably look a little childish.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 17 September 2015, 18:48:36
u guys think it'll be OK to take my gon to work?

KappaPride
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Thu, 17 September 2015, 23:18:29
u guys think it'll be OK to take my gon to work?

KappaPride

depends on what you do.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 17 September 2015, 23:19:51
u guys think it'll be OK to take my gon to work?

KappaPride

depends on what you do.

i didn't get the job yet :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ttzhou on Thu, 17 September 2015, 23:27:15
u guys think it'll be OK to take my gon to work?

KappaPride

depends on what you do.

i didn't get the job yet
doesn't change my question
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 18 September 2015, 09:14:46
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
I would agree about artisans, but I think a lot of the recent GMK sets are professional enough, even Hyperfuse. And many SA sets (Hackd, Retro) are fine, too.

Yeah I think that Hyperfuse has a classy look to it. I think the accent keys might be pushing it in some workplaces but does anyone here even work at a place where they have been told off for how their keyboard looks?

I personally like Hyperfuse, but in any 'serious', 'corporate' environment I wouldn't use it. It's not about being told off (which would take a pretty infantile management culture), it's about whether you want to be remembered as the guy with the rainbow keyboard, which is a couple of steps up to being the guy with the collection of troll dolls lined up on his desk.

Oddly enough, I had assumed that programmers and keyboard enthusiasts would have a big intersect. Somewhat disappointingly, this hasn't been what I have observed in real life. I'm surrounded by programmers, as are a couple of friends who are coders in other companies. Nobody seems to have an interest in mech boards at all. Sad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 18 September 2015, 09:16:30
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
I would agree about artisans, but I think a lot of the recent GMK sets are professional enough, even Hyperfuse. And many SA sets (Hackd, Retro) are fine, too.

Yeah, some of the GMK sets are discrete enough to get away with, I think.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 18 September 2015, 09:17:59
I personally like Hyperfuse, but in any 'serious', 'corporate' environment I wouldn't use it. It's not about being told off (which would take a pretty infantile management culture), it's about whether you want to be remembered as the guy with the rainbow keyboard, which is a couple of steps up to being the guy with the collection of troll dolls lined up on his desk.

If you work in an office where people would rather remember you for your keyboard than your work, maybe it's time to quit. Or stop caring what people think. Sounds like a ****ty culture. I personally don't give a **** and have used Valentine's at work.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 18 September 2015, 09:36:34
If you work in an office where people would rather remember you for your keyboard than your work, maybe it's time to quit. Or stop caring what people think. Sounds like a ****ty culture. I personally don't give a **** and have used Valentine's at work.

Yeah, that would suck... I mean, I'm known as "The Keyboard Guy" just because none of the other programmers had seen the kind of stuff I bring in. But everyone is more interested than anything. Hell the owner and another programmer have already taken the dive into mechanical keyboards.

They're even thinking about getting everyone wasd boards with keyswitches of their choice as standard equipment  ;D

And as for keysets, I've used hyperfuse and symbiosis on a regular basis. And when I get some custom boards done, you're damn right they're coming in with me to the office!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 18 September 2015, 09:38:27
More
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
I would agree about artisans, but I think a lot of the recent GMK sets are professional enough, even Hyperfuse. And many SA sets (Hackd, Retro) are fine, too.

Yeah I think that Hyperfuse has a classy look to it. I think the accent keys might be pushing it in some workplaces but does anyone here even work at a place where they have been told off for how their keyboard looks?

I personally like Hyperfuse, but in any 'serious', 'corporate' environment I wouldn't use it. It's not about being told off (which would take a pretty infantile management culture), it's about whether you want to be remembered as the guy with the rainbow keyboard, which is a couple of steps up to being the guy with the collection of troll dolls lined up on his desk.


I'm the guy with Toki Doki Unicornos, Cactus Cats, and Smoking Bunnies at my desk.  My boss, supervisor, and co-workers all love them.  I'd rather be remembered as the guy who kicks ass at his job and knows how to relax and have fun than the guy who does his job well but is overly serious and uptight.  If you are effective and professional with clients and co-workers, who the hell cares what your workspace looks like...unless it's all Lisa Frank and Hannah Montanna when you're a dude.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sth on Fri, 18 September 2015, 09:39:26
what like smorkin labbits?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 18 September 2015, 10:11:50
I'm the guy with Toki Doki Unicornos, Cactus Cats, and Smoking Bunnies at my desk.  My boss, supervisor, and co-workers all love them.  I'd rather be remembered as the guy who kicks ass at his job and knows how to relax and have fun than the guy who does his job well but is overly serious and uptight.  If you are effective and professional with clients and co-workers, who the hell cares what your workspace looks like...unless it's all Lisa Frank and Hannah Montanna when you're a dude.
agreed. if jamster finds out his cool yet serious boss uses a handerbeit set, would he think 'hehe rainbow and ponies what a ***'? no, he would think 'wow i didnt know this guy was into keyboards, definitely gonna ask him about it next time im in his office. what a kool guy!!'

just a matter of perception
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 18 September 2015, 10:24:42
Yessss, I knew this was going to be unpopular :D

If my boss, who is probably the geekiest one I've ever had, ever saw unicorn vomit on my desk, he would heap **** on me, but he's a Brit and that's how Brits and Aussies operate :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 18 September 2015, 10:38:22
do brits and aussies have more in common with each other than with scots and welsh people?

just curious how that works
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 18 September 2015, 10:42:42
Weeell, technical Scots and the Welsh *are* Brits. Albeit with funnier accents than usual.

Though I wouldn't push that point in a pub in either Scotland or Wales.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fire Brand on Fri, 18 September 2015, 10:46:08
Yessss, I knew this was going to be unpopular :D

If my boss, who is probably the geekiest one I've ever had, ever saw unicorn vomit on my desk, he would heap **** on me, but he's a Brit and that's how Brits and Aussies operate :)
Woah woah woah don't go stereotyping me as a none rainbow vomit looking person just because I'm a Brit :I

FYI my boss is pretty chill about my keyboards he find them interesting thinking I'm wasting money but finds them interesting :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 18 September 2015, 10:59:56
Though I wouldn't push that point in a pub in either Scotland or Wales.
this reminds me of a sports article i read once: "Andy Murray is only British when he's playing in Wimbledon"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zzyjayfree on Sat, 19 September 2015, 01:10:14
Sorry I'm still in love with Win+E Win+D Win+R Win+P  : P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 19 September 2015, 01:12:16
Sorry I'm still in love with Win+E Win+D Win+R Win+P  : P

I feel like you're on a roll for posting to get somewhere, but I have to agree.  Win hotkeys are the ****.  It's why winkeyless sucks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 22 September 2015, 15:04:06
Modern Selectric...


... looks ...


... not great.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dutC4 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 15:05:05
 :blank:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Tue, 22 September 2015, 15:15:45
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 22 September 2015, 15:30:20
  • I don't care about scoops/bars/nipples. Like at all.
  • I am simultaneously annoyed and entertained by the recent threadcrapping drama, but neither annoyed nor entertained to the point of action.
  • Massdrop seems to actually be trying to not suck as much lately.
Yeah, I have never had any issue with Massdrop. But then I am, and will never be, a vendor so will probably never experience their relationship between GB organiser and host.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Tue, 22 September 2015, 15:33:23
  • I don't care about scoops/bars/nipples. Like at all.
  • I am simultaneously annoyed and entertained by the recent threadcrapping drama, but neither annoyed nor entertained to the point of action.
  • Massdrop seems to actually be trying to not suck as much lately.
Yeah, I have never had any issue with Massdrop. But then I am, and will never be, a vendor so will probably never experience their relationship between GB organiser and host.

I still don't think I would ever run a buy through them. But the last couple of "drops" I've joined since GMK TA have all gone swimmingly, so far. I've got one of the items in-hand, and for the other two I've received notice that things are progressing slightly ahead of schedule. So really can't complain about that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 15:35:12
  • Massdrop seems to actually be trying to not suck as much lately.
Yeah, I have never had any issue with Massdrop. But then I am, and will never be, a vendor so will probably never experience their relationship between GB organiser and host.

Waiting patiently on my PBT Topre spacebars, and I have to say, so far the communication about the status has been really good.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Tue, 22 September 2015, 16:25:47
The Surface 2 Keyboard Cover isn't the worst keyboard I've ever used.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 22 September 2015, 16:42:03
I had a problem with MD once; it took some time to be sorted out, some unresponsive reps to deal with, some repeating and unattended emails; but, at the end, it was solved well. In the other hand, it seems, it is improving.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blueangel2323 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 19:58:57
1) The most common Cherry non-clicky switches suck, and feel inferior to rubber domes, because
2) Blacks and Reds are pointless - linear switches defeat the main purpose of using a mechanical keyboard, and
3) Browns are not tactile at all; more like linears with sand caught inside.

Only Blues/Greens are worth the money, and possibly Clears, which I haven't had a chance to try yet.

Also:
4) With a few exceptions, keyboards with multi coloured keycaps and LEDs look stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 22 September 2015, 20:03:26
To counter that, MX Blues are vastly overrated.  I'd even go so far as to say they suck.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Tue, 22 September 2015, 20:14:10
To counter that, MX Blues are vastly overrated.  I'd even go so far as to say they suck.
Vintage blues, like in my Dolch PAC, are nice.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Tue, 22 September 2015, 20:31:34
1) The most common Cherry non-clicky switches suck, and feel inferior to rubber domes, because
2) Blacks and Reds are pointless - linear switches defeat the main purpose of using a mechanical keyboard, and
3) Browns are not tactile at all; more like linears with sand caught inside.

Only Blues/Greens are worth the money, and possibly Clears, which I haven't had a chance to try yet.

Also:
4) With a few exceptions, keyboards with multi coloured keycaps and LEDs look stupid.

I noticed one day while typing on MX Blues whilst listening to my IEMs that they actually felt a little different if I could not hear them clicking. To my own surprise, I found that the MX Browns actually feel more tactile than the Blues if you completely block out the sounds of typing. The click plays tricks with your brain. Not that it's relevant anyways since the click is certainly a large part of typing on Blues and will rarely be blocked out completely.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 20:48:26
1) The most common Cherry non-clicky switches suck, and feel inferior to rubber domes, because
2) Blacks and Reds are pointless - linear switches defeat the main purpose of using a mechanical keyboard, and
Not really sure what you mean by "main purpose." Feedback? A mechanical keyboard is the only way you're going to be able to use a linear switch at all.

Only Blues/Greens are worth the money, and possibly Clears, which I haven't had a chance to try yet.
all new cherry switches are scratchy as hell, I'd rather have gateron or even greetech from my short experience with gree. Vintage/worn MX is nice though.

Also:
4) With a few exceptions, keyboards with multi coloured keycaps and LEDs look stupid.
ITT half of GH doesn't like backlighting and colorful sets to varying degrees.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 22 September 2015, 20:54:24
I like backlighting. I just think it's too hard to get decent keysets for them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blueangel2323 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 22:35:20
To counter that, MX Blues are vastly overrated.  I'd even go so far as to say they suck.

I'd agree that they're overrated. But I found them at least somewhat acceptable to type on, unlike the others.

I noticed one day while typing on MX Blues whilst listening to my IEMs that they actually felt a little different if I could not hear them clicking. To my own surprise, I found that the MX Browns actually feel more tactile than the Blues if you completely block out the sounds of typing. The click plays tricks with your brain. Not that it's relevant anyways since the click is certainly a large part of typing on Blues and will rarely be blocked out completely.

I haven't tried that... if it's true, then the Blues suck too, and all that's good about them is just a perceptive illusion lol

Not really sure what you mean by "main purpose." Feedback? A mechanical keyboard is the only way you're going to be able to use a linear switch at all.

Yes, I would consider feedback the main reason to use a mechanical keyboard. Other reasons being reliability and build quality.

all new cherry switches are scratchy as hell, I'd rather have gateron or even greetech from my short experience with gree. Vintage/worn MX is nice though.

Yeah they're definitely not that smooth. But my point was, Browns feel like a scratchier version of Black to me, instead of having the distinct tactile point they claim to have.

ITT half of GH doesn't like backlighting and colorful sets to varying degrees.
I like backlighting. I just think it's too hard to get decent keysets for them.

I like backlighting too... plain white (or a single, similarly neutral colour) backlighting, not a rainbow of neon colours.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 22:47:19
Not really sure what you mean by "main purpose." Feedback? A mechanical keyboard is the only way you're going to be able to use a linear switch at all.

Yes, I would consider feedback the main reason to use a mechanical keyboard. Other reasons being reliability and build quality.
Unless I'm mistake rubberdomes have feedback too?

all new cherry switches are scratchy as hell, I'd rather have gateron or even greetech from my short experience with gree. Vintage/worn MX is nice though.

Yeah they're definitely not that smooth. But my point was, Browns feel like a scratchier version of Black to me, instead of having the distinct tactile point they claim to have.
I was more referring to the point that blues and greens are the only acceptable cherry switches. I agree that the bump on browns is negligible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blueangel2323 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 23:10:51
Unless I'm mistake rubberdomes have feedback too?

Rubber domes are a hit and miss. Some have excellent feedback while others are a mushy mess. Even the same model of rubber dome keyboard can vary in quality. At least with mechanical switches they are pretty consistent, whether that is consistently good or bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blahlicus on Wed, 23 September 2015, 08:42:18
1) The most common Cherry non-clicky switches suck, and feel inferior to rubber domes, because
2) Blacks and Reds are pointless - linear switches defeat the main purpose of using a mechanical keyboard, and

linears have their place because they actuate before they get bottomed out, unlike certain membrane boards, also membrane boards have this sandy bumpy feedback and not everyone likes it

3) Browns are not tactile at all; more like linears with sand caught inside.

agreed, browns feel mushy and similar to rubber domes, dont know why people like them, i would prefer topre if i actually like tactile switches

Only Blues/Greens are worth the money, and possibly Clears, which I haven't had a chance to try yet.

Also:
4) With a few exceptions, keyboards with multi coloured keycaps and LEDs look stupid.

you should try out alps and buckling springs, thats an entirely new world of amazing clickyness, to be honest, i dont think cherry tactile and clicky switches are that great
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Wed, 23 September 2015, 10:31:19
agreed, browns feel mushy and similar to rubber domes, dont know why people like them, i would prefer topre if i actually like tactile switches

I don't think Browns feel anything like rubber domes but I agree there isn't much tactile feedback. I like Browns but only because they bottom out like a linear switch but have the bump there when you need it (specifically, for gaming). I'd say Clears feel more like rubber domes than Browns, but it's still a long shot. I prefer Topre over all the Cherry switches I have tried.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 23 September 2015, 11:15:55
agreed, browns feel mushy and similar to rubber domes, dont know why people like them, i would prefer topre if i actually like tactile switches

I don't think Browns feel anything like rubber domes but I agree there isn't much tactile feedback. I like Browns but only because they bottom out like a linear switch but have the bump there when you need it (specifically, for gaming). I'd say Clears feel more like rubber domes than Browns, but it's still a long shot. I prefer Topre over all the Cherry switches I have tried.

browns do not feel anything like rubber domes - they are closer to reds and black imo
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 23 September 2015, 11:36:04
agreed, browns feel mushy and similar to rubber domes, dont know why people like them, i would prefer topre if i actually like tactile switches

I don't think Browns feel anything like rubber domes but I agree there isn't much tactile feedback. I like Browns but only because they bottom out like a linear switch but have the bump there when you need it (specifically, for gaming). I'd say Clears feel more like rubber domes than Browns, but it's still a long shot. I prefer Topre over all the Cherry switches I have tried.

browns do not feel anything like rubber domes - they are closer to reds and black imo

Personally I don't think browns are bad at all in general, I just prefer like Greetech's to Cherry's. They're great as an intro switch especially for people used to membrane who want a nice tactile feedback, but don't want to be overwhelmed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Wed, 23 September 2015, 11:48:46
Modern Selectric...


... looks ...


... not great.

I ordered black mods for this reason. It looks much better as black/white. Blue is too bright, not really a "IBM Blue" (which is darker and more muted, in between regular blue and navy blue).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 23 September 2015, 12:02:23
agreed, browns feel mushy and similar to rubber domes, dont know why people like them, i would prefer topre if i actually like tactile switches

I don't think Browns feel anything like rubber domes but I agree there isn't much tactile feedback. I like Browns but only because they bottom out like a linear switch but have the bump there when you need it (specifically, for gaming). I'd say Clears feel more like rubber domes than Browns, but it's still a long shot. I prefer Topre over all the Cherry switches I have tried.

browns do not feel anything like rubber domes - they are closer to reds and black imo

Personally I don't think browns are bad at all in general, I just prefer like Greetech's to Cherry's. They're great as an intro switch especially for people used to membrane who want a nice tactile feedback, but don't want to be overwhelmed.

I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 23 September 2015, 12:11:50
agreed, browns feel mushy and similar to rubber domes, dont know why people like them, i would prefer topre if i actually like tactile switches

I don't think Browns feel anything like rubber domes but I agree there isn't much tactile feedback. I like Browns but only because they bottom out like a linear switch but have the bump there when you need it (specifically, for gaming). I'd say Clears feel more like rubber domes than Browns, but it's still a long shot. I prefer Topre over all the Cherry switches I have tried.

browns do not feel anything like rubber domes - they are closer to reds and black imo

Personally I don't think browns are bad at all in general, I just prefer like Greetech's to Cherry's. They're great as an intro switch especially for people used to membrane who want a nice tactile feedback, but don't want to be overwhelmed.

I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist

I wouldn't recommend them, but the fact is just that of the 8 friends I've had try out my cherry/gateron switch tester coming from no experience with mechanical boards or "gaming" related advertising (none of them are gamers at all) 6 of them preferred the browns over the other switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blueangel2323 on Wed, 23 September 2015, 12:14:59
linears have their place because they actuate before they get bottomed out, unlike certain membrane boards, also membrane boards have this sandy bumpy feedback and not everyone likes it

Most mechanical switches actuate before bottoming out. All Cherry switches have their actuation points near the middle of the travel depth. Alps are a bit higher and Topre a bit lower. The problem with linear switches is that you have no idea whether they actuated or not unless you bottom out. It's not easy to accurately "feel" where halfway is.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 23 September 2015, 12:17:32
linears have their place because they actuate before they get bottomed out, unlike certain membrane boards, also membrane boards have this sandy bumpy feedback and not everyone likes it

Most mechanical switches actuate before bottoming out. All Cherry switches have their actuation points near the middle of the travel depth. Alps are a bit higher and Topre a bit lower. The problem with linear switches is that you have no idea whether they actuated or not unless you bottom out. It's not easy to accurately "feel" where halfway is.

eh, you definitely develop a feel for them after using them for a bit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 23 September 2015, 16:46:46
linears have their place because they actuate before they get bottomed out, unlike certain membrane boards, also membrane boards have this sandy bumpy feedback and not everyone likes it

Most mechanical switches actuate before bottoming out. All Cherry switches have their actuation points near the middle of the travel depth. Alps are a bit higher and Topre a bit lower. The problem with linear switches is that you have no idea whether they actuated or not unless you bottom out. It's not easy to accurately "feel" where halfway is.

I imagine pretty much everyone bottoms out though
Have you ever tried typing with any speed and not bottoming out? Impossibru
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blueangel2323 on Wed, 23 September 2015, 18:39:05
I imagine pretty much everyone bottoms out though
Have you ever tried typing with any speed and not bottoming out? Impossibru
To me, Cherry switches actually discourage me from bottoming out because the increasing linear force of the spring after the actuation point makes pressing the key down further quite fatiguing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 23 September 2015, 18:47:55
I imagine pretty much everyone bottoms out though
Have you ever tried typing with any speed and not bottoming out? Impossibru
To me, Cherry switches actually discourage me from bottoming out because the increasing linear force of the spring after the actuation point makes pressing the key down further quite fatiguing.

That depends on the switch though. I have never felt fatigue on any switches other than 110g greys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 23 September 2015, 21:56:07
i love using CAPSLOCK
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tofu28 on Wed, 23 September 2015, 21:59:23
i love using CAPSLOCK

Are you one of those people who double taps caps instead of holding shift?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 23 September 2015, 22:00:52
i love using CAPSLOCK

Are you one of those people who double taps caps instead of holding shift?

Most of the time I double taps caps, sometimes I use shift
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 24 September 2015, 02:02:52

i love using CAPSLOCK

Are you one of those people who double taps caps instead of holding shift?

Most of the time I double taps caps, sometimes I use shift

Isn't this the purpose of sticky keys?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 24 September 2015, 07:23:52
Suddenly, the topic morphed into "Non-sense Keyboard Opinions"

 :D :)) :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shaussman on Thu, 24 September 2015, 22:12:47
I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist

How does it not make sense that browns exist? They're honestly great. Overall my favorite switch, followed by Kailh blues. I might like Clears more if I could actually sit down and use them for a while but until that happens Browns and Kailh blues are king. Also, I got browns as my first switch and it was definitely the right choice, even if they were a bit strange to move to from my Dell quietkey (way lighter and way less of a bump).

Interestingly enough, I found MX blues to be super fatiguing and as such I'm not a massive fan while the lighter switch and tactility of the Kailhs lets them pull ahead.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blueangel2323 on Thu, 24 September 2015, 22:29:21
Well, this is the "unpopular keyboard opinions" thread, so obviously not everyone or even most people would agree with what we're saying here :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shaussman on Thu, 24 September 2015, 22:35:06
Well, this is the "unpopular keyboard opinions" thread, so obviously not everyone or even most people would agree with what we're saying here :)

Disagreeing is fine, I'm just curious about the logic behind the opinion
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 24 September 2015, 22:48:16
I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist

How does it not make sense that browns exist? They're honestly great. Overall my favorite switch, followed by Kailh blues. I might like Clears more if I could actually sit down and use them for a while but until that happens Browns and Kailh blues are king. Also, I got browns as my first switch and it was definitely the right choice, even if they were a bit strange to move to from my Dell quietkey (way lighter and way less of a bump).

Interestingly enough, I found MX blues to be super fatiguing and as such I'm not a massive fan while the lighter switch and tactility of the Kailhs lets them pull ahead.

agree that brown is awesome.  especially brand new modern brown
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 24 September 2015, 22:53:03
MEI switches feel worse than anything else I've ever laid hands on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blahlicus on Fri, 25 September 2015, 09:27:38
linears have their place because they actuate before they get bottomed out, unlike certain membrane boards, also membrane boards have this sandy bumpy feedback and not everyone likes it

Most mechanical switches actuate before bottoming out. All Cherry switches have their actuation points near the middle of the travel depth. Alps are a bit higher and Topre a bit lower. The problem with linear switches is that you have no idea whether they actuated or not unless you bottom out. It's not easy to accurately "feel" where halfway is.

this is where the "not everyone likes the subtle feedback" part comes from, in my opinion, cherry tactile feedback switches are horrible as they provide little to no feedback and feels more like rusty bumps than proper feedback

besides, you kind of grow accustomed to actuating linear switches especially reds, since they are so easy to actuate you dont have to "feel" it actuate because it will always actuate no matter how lightly you pressed, also o-rings and bottoming out help as well i guess
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 25 September 2015, 09:45:59
linears have their place because they actuate before they get bottomed out, unlike certain membrane boards, also membrane boards have this sandy bumpy feedback and not everyone likes it

Most mechanical switches actuate before bottoming out. All Cherry switches have their actuation points near the middle of the travel depth. Alps are a bit higher and Topre a bit lower. The problem with linear switches is that you have no idea whether they actuated or not unless you bottom out. It's not easy to accurately "feel" where halfway is.

this is where the "not everyone likes the subtle feedback" part comes from, in my opinion, cherry tactile feedback switches are horrible as they provide little to no feedback and feels more like rusty bumps than proper feedback

besides, you kind of grow accustomed to actuating linear switches especially reds, since they are so easy to actuate you dont have to "feel" it actuate because it will always actuate no matter how lightly you pressed, also o-rings and bottoming out help as well i guess

I modded my daily driver's switches yesterday; they have now 65g springs, new clear stems, transparent tops, stock Cherry contacts, and they feel, and sound just awesome. Their sound has a very low pitch, it is almost a tock, the feeling is very solid, offering just the right amount of force, not hard, neither light.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 25 September 2015, 11:07:46
linears have their place because they actuate before they get bottomed out, unlike certain membrane boards, also membrane boards have this sandy bumpy feedback and not everyone likes it

Most mechanical switches actuate before bottoming out. All Cherry switches have their actuation points near the middle of the travel depth. Alps are a bit higher and Topre a bit lower. The problem with linear switches is that you have no idea whether they actuated or not unless you bottom out. It's not easy to accurately "feel" where halfway is.

this is where the "not everyone likes the subtle feedback" part comes from, in my opinion, cherry tactile feedback switches are horrible as they provide little to no feedback and feels more like rusty bumps than proper feedback

besides, you kind of grow accustomed to actuating linear switches especially reds, since they are so easy to actuate you dont have to "feel" it actuate because it will always actuate no matter how lightly you pressed, also o-rings and bottoming out help as well i guess

I modded my daily driver's switches yesterday; they have now 65g springs, new clear stems, transparent tops, stock Cherry contacts, and they feel, and sound just awesome. Their sound has a very low pitch, it is almost a tock, the feeling is very solid, offering just the right amount of force, not hard, neither light.

I got some Vintage MX Blues, put in 62g 24kt Gold Sprit Springs, Sip Sockets(even though it doesn't affect the feel), and clear mx switch top. I absolutely love them, they feel perfect to me and actually sound quieter than my Pok3r w/Blues but with a nicer tone in my opinion. I love these switches, may try some ergo clears but probably some zealios next.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 26 September 2015, 09:59:05

browns do not feel anything like rubber domes - they are closer to reds and black imo

I much prefer a decent quality (not talking topre here, something that came free with a PC) rubberdome board to anything with stock MX switches. I'm currently typing this on a Wyse rubberdome board because I cannot stand using the MX horribly mushy black that I have in a closet which is awaiting Zeal's Gaterons for a transplant. I've got browns on another board (a keypad) and they're also way less preferable to decent rubberdome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pr0ximity on Sat, 26 September 2015, 10:16:34
HHKB layout is no good. People who buy GONs and Ducks in that layout are out of their minds.

Does one fewer key in the corner really matter? If they weren't case-mounted Topre they wouldn't even be worth talking about.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 26 September 2015, 10:54:43
MEI switches feel worse than anything else I've ever laid hands on.

Don't think I've ever gotten to try these before, do people really like them or something?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 26 September 2015, 16:48:49
MEI switches feel worse than anything else I've ever laid hands on.

Don't think I've ever gotten to try these before, do people really like them or something?

I've never heard anyone say something good about then.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sat, 26 September 2015, 20:46:46
HHKB layout is no good. People who buy GONs and Ducks in that layout are out of their minds.

Does one fewer key in the corner really matter? If they weren't case-mounted Topre they wouldn't even be worth talking about.

I agree to some extent. I'm in love with the Capslock to Ctrl transfer, but I don't understand why people are so obsessed with removing those extra keys to get the look.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 26 September 2015, 20:47:52
HHKB layout is no good. People who buy GONs and Ducks in that layout are out of their minds.

Does one fewer key in the corner really matter? If they weren't case-mounted Topre they wouldn't even be worth talking about.

I agree to some extent. I'm in love with the Capslock to Ctrl transfer, but I don't understand why people are so obsessed with removing those extra keys to get the look.

well obviously because a keyboard is like a finely tuned race car, gotta remove every ounce of extra weight :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mason on Sat, 26 September 2015, 23:52:26
I like my shiny keycaps because they're so smooth and kind of like the look
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 26 September 2015, 23:59:04
HHKB layout is no good. People who buy GONs and Ducks in that layout are out of their minds.

Does one fewer key in the corner really matter? If they weren't case-mounted Topre they wouldn't even be worth talking about.

I agree to some extent. I'm in love with the Capslock to Ctrl transfer, but I don't understand why people are so obsessed with removing those extra keys to get the look.
It's exactly  the same as people who have winkeyless customs. It's just a nice aesthetic that people want.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 27 September 2015, 00:02:09
HHKB layout is no good. People who buy GONs and Ducks in that layout are out of their minds.

Does one fewer key in the corner really matter? If they weren't case-mounted Topre they wouldn't even be worth talking about.

I agree to some extent. I'm in love with the Capslock to Ctrl transfer, but I don't understand why people are so obsessed with removing those extra keys to get the look.
It's exactly  the same as people who have winkeyless customs. It's just a nice aesthetic that people want.


It is the Unicorn syndrome, the aspiration to be unique. In the practical side, those corners are just wasted space.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blueangel2323 on Sun, 27 September 2015, 00:14:39
I like my shiny keycaps because they're so smooth and kind of like the look
I'm fine with shiny keys, as long as they are all equally shiny. The problem is, keys never wear out consistently across the whole keyboard. What bothers people is having some shiny and some matte keys on the same keyboard. Doesn't that bother you?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mason on Sun, 27 September 2015, 00:20:30
I'm fine with shiny keys, as long as they are all equally shiny. The problem is, keys never wear out consistently across the whole keyboard. What bothers people is having some shiny and some matte keys on the same keyboard. Doesn't that bother you?

Not really and I'm glad it doesn't
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 28 September 2015, 00:13:03
HHKB layout is no good. People who buy GONs and Ducks in that layout are out of their minds.

Does one fewer key in the corner really matter? If they weren't case-mounted Topre they wouldn't even be worth talking about.

I agree to some extent. I'm in love with the Capslock to Ctrl transfer, but I don't understand why people are so obsessed with removing those extra keys to get the look.
It's exactly  the same as people who have winkeyless customs. It's just a nice aesthetic that people want.


It is the Unicorn syndrome, the aspiration to be unique. In the practical side, those corners are just wasted space.

Unicorn syndrome indeed. :P The ironic thing is when EVERYONE flocks to say the Viper over the Eagle and then the Eagle becomes the more uncommon variant because everyone wants the more "unique" option. Can't say I'm not guilty of wanting to be a special snowflake myself sometimes, but I think everyone has that phase in this community.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Mon, 28 September 2015, 01:08:01
It's not really being a special snow flake if that snowflake is the most popular, is it?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 28 September 2015, 02:12:11
It's not really being a special snow flake if that snowflake is the most popular, is it?

BAM!

It becomes ironic. I personally think obsession with rarity and the "hard to find" factor is stupid beyond all logic, but also admit I've been struck by it before. Thankfully not by artisans.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sth on Mon, 28 September 2015, 02:44:54
I like my shiny keycaps because they're so smooth and kind of like the look
I'm fine with shiny keys, as long as they are all equally shiny. The problem is, keys never wear out consistently across the whole keyboard. What bothers people is having some shiny and some matte keys on the same keyboard. Doesn't that bother you?

wabi-sabi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi)

nice avatar :)
the aesthetics of shine are acceptable in the sense that you are using the board --
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 28 September 2015, 04:18:59
HHKB layout is no good. People who buy GONs and Ducks in that layout are out of their minds.

Does one fewer key in the corner really matter? If they weren't case-mounted Topre they wouldn't even be worth talking about.

I've been saying that for years but as an old man I'm quickly ignored around here, as all these youngsters seem to think that they know better than any decrepit, ole geezer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snarfangel on Mon, 28 September 2015, 11:51:42
i love using CAPSLOCK

Superior in every way:
[attachimg=1]

And if there were any justice in the world, Shift Lock would be put right there, out of the way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 28 September 2015, 12:09:04
i love using CAPSLOCK

Superior in every way:
(Attachment Link)

And if there were any justice in the world, Shift Lock would be put right there, out of the way.

Is this the next GMK group buy teaser?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 28 September 2015, 12:10:10
i love using CAPSLOCK

Superior in every way:
(Attachment Link)

And if there were any justice in the world, Shift Lock would be put right there, out of the way.

Is this the next GMK group buy teaser?
yellow on black?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 28 September 2015, 12:11:54
i love using CAPSLOCK

Superior in every way:
(Attachment Link)

And if there were any justice in the world, Shift Lock would be put right there, out of the way.

Is this the next GMK group buy teaser?
yellow on black?

Bumble-bee.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: spectre on Thu, 01 October 2015, 10:05:28
The vast majority of aftermarket key sets are not suitable for most office environments. All artisan caps are unsuitable to work keyboards.


Flame away
I would agree about artisans, but I think a lot of the recent GMK sets are professional enough, even Hyperfuse. And many SA sets (Hackd, Retro) are fine, too.

Yeah I think that Hyperfuse has a classy look to it. I think the accent keys might be pushing it in some workplaces but does anyone here even work at a place where they have been told off for how their keyboard looks?

I personally like Hyperfuse, but in any 'serious', 'corporate' environment I wouldn't use it. It's not about being told off (which would take a pretty infantile management culture), it's about whether you want to be remembered as the guy with the rainbow keyboard, which is a couple of steps up to being the guy with the collection of troll dolls lined up on his desk.

Oddly enough, I had assumed that programmers and keyboard enthusiasts would have a big intersect. Somewhat disappointingly, this hasn't been what I have observed in real life. I'm surrounded by programmers, as are a couple of friends who are coders in other companies. Nobody seems to have an interest in mech boards at all. Sad.

Caring about keyboards is an unpopular keyboard opinion :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: GL1TCH3D on Thu, 01 October 2015, 10:14:50

I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist

Haha

That's what I told all my friends about browns.

The big misconception is that browns are just a silent blue but it's really not.

Blues are entirely different but browns are marketed as an "upgrade" to blues.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 01 October 2015, 10:20:27

I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist

Haha

That's what I told all my friends about browns.

The big misconception is that browns are just a silent blue but it's really not.

Blues are entirely different but browns are marketed as an "upgrade" to blues.

One of the things that kind of bothers me about the keyboard community is this weird mentality that some people have recommending switches - "oh if you're gaming then you need reds!" "oh you're a typist that means you need blues!" "you're an inbetween person go for the browns" - it reminds me of the sorting hat from harry potter or picking which pokemon to take....

If I have found anything it's that keyboards are more of a journey than anything - there is no end game despite what any one will tell you, there is only the keyboard that you are liking the most right now
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Thu, 01 October 2015, 10:32:54

I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist

Haha

That's what I told all my friends about browns.

The big misconception is that browns are just a silent blue but it's really not.

Blues are entirely different but browns are marketed as an "upgrade" to blues.

One of the things that kind of bothers me about the keyboard community is this weird mentality that some people have recommending switches - "oh if you're gaming then you need reds!" "oh you're a typist that means you need blues!" "you're an inbetween person go for the browns" - it reminds me of the sorting hat from harry potter or picking which pokemon to take....

If I have found anything it's that keyboards are more of a journey than anything - there is no end game despite what any one will tell you, there is only the keyboard that you are liking the most right now
The takeaway here is, buy every keyboard ever. Then you will find your favorite.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 01 October 2015, 10:34:17

I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist

Haha

That's what I told all my friends about browns.

The big misconception is that browns are just a silent blue but it's really not.

Blues are entirely different but browns are marketed as an "upgrade" to blues.

One of the things that kind of bothers me about the keyboard community is this weird mentality that some people have recommending switches - "oh if you're gaming then you need reds!" "oh you're a typist that means you need blues!" "you're an inbetween person go for the browns" - it reminds me of the sorting hat from harry potter or picking which pokemon to take....

If I have found anything it's that keyboards are more of a journey than anything - there is no end game despite what any one will tell you, there is only the keyboard that you are liking the most right now
The takeaway here is, buy every keyboard ever. Then you will find your favorite.

pretty much
I prefer the less consumeristic way of saying it though: "be a life long learner"  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Thu, 01 October 2015, 10:36:20

I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist

Haha

That's what I told all my friends about browns.

The big misconception is that browns are just a silent blue but it's really not.

Blues are entirely different but browns are marketed as an "upgrade" to blues.

One of the things that kind of bothers me about the keyboard community is this weird mentality that some people have recommending switches - "oh if you're gaming then you need reds!" "oh you're a typist that means you need blues!" "you're an inbetween person go for the browns" - it reminds me of the sorting hat from harry potter or picking which pokemon to take....

If I have found anything it's that keyboards are more of a journey than anything - there is no end game despite what any one will tell you, there is only the keyboard that you are liking the most right now
The takeaway here is, buy every keyboard ever. Then you will find your favorite.

pretty much
I prefer the less consumeristic way of saying it though: "be a life long learner"  :))
If you want to save some money, just buy Topre first and lie to yourself that you already have the best keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Thu, 01 October 2015, 10:42:52

I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist

Haha

That's what I told all my friends about browns.

The big misconception is that browns are just a silent blue but it's really not.

Blues are entirely different but browns are marketed as an "upgrade" to blues.

One of the things that kind of bothers me about the keyboard community is this weird mentality that some people have recommending switches - "oh if you're gaming then you need reds!" "oh you're a typist that means you need blues!" "you're an inbetween person go for the browns" - it reminds me of the sorting hat from harry potter or picking which pokemon to take....

If I have found anything it's that keyboards are more of a journey than anything - there is no end game despite what any one will tell you, there is only the keyboard that you are liking the most right now

But I thought Snake Plitskin was dead!  I found my endgame keyboard years ago.  Maybe you'll find yours too!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 01 October 2015, 10:49:07

I honestly think that anyone who recommends mx browns as a first switch is someone who just reads the cherry or corsair marketing bull**** - it doesn't even make sense why browns exist

Haha

That's what I told all my friends about browns.

The big misconception is that browns are just a silent blue but it's really not.

Blues are entirely different but browns are marketed as an "upgrade" to blues.

One of the things that kind of bothers me about the keyboard community is this weird mentality that some people have recommending switches - "oh if you're gaming then you need reds!" "oh you're a typist that means you need blues!" "you're an inbetween person go for the browns" - it reminds me of the sorting hat from harry potter or picking which pokemon to take....

If I have found anything it's that keyboards are more of a journey than anything - there is no end game despite what any one will tell you, there is only the keyboard that you are liking the most right now
The takeaway here is, buy every keyboard ever. Then you will find your favorite.

pretty much
I prefer the less consumeristic way of saying it though: "be a life long learner"  :))
If you want to save some money, just buy Topre first and lie to yourself that you already have the best keyboard.

I think if you have an inkling of curiosity this approach doesn't really work

I started with MX and then moved to Buckling spring and then to Topre - now I'm eyeing up the 55g variants and really want to try Alps...

I don't think "the endgame crusade" extends just to switches either - definitely applies to form factor and keycaps - and as more and more of these get invented it's impossible to know for sure if you're missing out on something
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 01 October 2015, 11:02:08
If I have found anything it's that keyboards are more of a journey than anything - there is no end game despite what any one will tell you, there is only the keyboard that you are liking the most right now

But I'm so close to my actual endgame!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 01 October 2015, 11:17:48
If I have found anything it's that keyboards are more of a journey than anything - there is no end game despite what any one will tell you, there is only the keyboard that you are liking the most right now

But I'm so close to my actual endgame!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tararais on Thu, 01 October 2015, 17:01:34
I think the community was kind of hypocritical from starting at hating clones (Kailh comes to mind) to going to preferring them (Gateron) because of feels. Was it always about feels or did some righteousness turn into preference? =/
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Thu, 01 October 2015, 17:06:36
I think the community was kind of hypocritical from starting at hating clones (Kailh comes to mind) to going to preferring them (Gateron) because of feels. Was it always about feels or did some righteousness turn into preference? =/

I've never been hypocritical, I hate all clones.. Except for Star Wars - Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Herothereu on Thu, 01 October 2015, 17:14:17
I think the community was kind of hypocritical from starting at hating clones (Kailh comes to mind) to going to preferring them (Gateron) because of feels. Was it always about feels or did some righteousness turn into preference? =/

Novatouch are GOOD clones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 01 October 2015, 17:36:47
I think the community was kind of hypocritical from starting at hating clones (Kailh comes to mind) to going to preferring them (Gateron) because of feels. Was it always about feels or did some righteousness turn into preference? =/

I've never been hypocritical, I hate all clones.. Except for Star Wars - Attack of the Clones

bleurgh
such a terrible movie

I don't think it's to do with hating clones per se ... I think it is more to do with the fact that Kailh's are terrible clones/switches and that most people's experience with mx clones was big oems switching to them (often surreptitiously) as a cost cutting measure
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 01 October 2015, 22:34:52
See people say that Kailhs are terrible but it's really just another opinion. I like Kailhs. If you don't, cool. I also find the community as a whole kind of hypocritical about it too. There has always been an air of elitism when it comes to certain things in this community, just like any other hobby.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Thu, 01 October 2015, 22:57:53
See people say that Kailhs are terrible but it's really just another opinion. I like Kailhs. If you don't, cool. I also find the community as a whole kind of hypocritical about it too. There has always been an air of elitism when it comes to certain things in this community, just like any other hobby.

Hypocritical how? It seems the fact that the community has embraced cheaper Gateron switches would disprove your notion that it's about status or elitism.

Not only that, but Zeal has provided incontrovertible photographic evidence that Kalih switch components have inferior surface finish to both Gateron and Cherry.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hoz on Thu, 01 October 2015, 23:32:34
See people say that Kailhs are terrible but it's really just another opinion. I like Kailhs. If you don't, cool. I also find the community as a whole kind of hypocritical about it too. There has always been an air of elitism when it comes to certain things in this community, just like any other hobby.

i like Gateron's because of their slightly earlier actuation, blues feels awesome combined with heavier springs making them "super ghetto greens", and retail there's hardly any price difference between gateron and cherry stuff, atleast at those shops shipping international.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Fri, 02 October 2015, 04:31:47
See people say that Kailhs are terrible but it's really just another opinion. I like Kailhs. If you don't, cool. I also find the community as a whole kind of hypocritical about it too. There has always been an air of elitism when it comes to certain things in this community, just like any other hobby.

I don't think its hypocritical to point out that some things are better than others
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Sat, 03 October 2015, 22:10:22
Alright, I've got another one.

I don't like the 55g HHKB. Not at all. MUCH prefer the 55g Realforce. Can't speak for a 55g FC660C. So glad I didn't alter my HHKB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sun, 04 October 2015, 01:02:14
Alright, I've got another one.

I don't like the 55g HHKB. Not at all. MUCH prefer the 55g Realforce. Can't speak for a 55g FC660C. So glad I didn't alter my HHKB.

Making me want to go out and buy a RF 55g, but I want to save up some cash for that newly produced kishsaver...


I will eventually though, plate mounted topre is making me want to try it more and more after all this talk...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Emmiya on Sun, 04 October 2015, 04:19:24
I believed the hype surrounding the 'SA' key-profile, and bought the Puls3 set.

I hate typing on it, it feels like a chore, and the keys are way too 'slidy'. But it looks pretty as **** so I won't swap out to a nice DSA set.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 04 October 2015, 08:39:04
I believed the hype surrounding the 'SA' key-profile, and bought the Puls3 set.

I hate typing on it, it feels like a chore, and the keys are way too 'slidy'. But it looks pretty as **** so I won't swap out to a nice DSA set.

Is Pulse a flat design or a countered one?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 04 October 2015, 08:45:00

I believed the hype surrounding the 'SA' key-profile, and bought the Puls3 set.

I hate typing on it, it feels like a chore, and the keys are way too 'slidy'. But it looks pretty as **** so I won't swap out to a nice DSA set.

Is Pulse a flat design or a countered one?

It's contoured.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 04 October 2015, 08:46:59

I believed the hype surrounding the 'SA' key-profile, and bought the Puls3 set.

I hate typing on it, it feels like a chore, and the keys are way too 'slidy'. But it looks pretty as **** so I won't swap out to a nice DSA set.

Is Pulse a flat design or a countered one?

It's contoured.

It is bad to know contoured SA does not have a nice typing feeling.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sun, 04 October 2015, 11:11:47
Were all the vintage (terminal) SA style keycaps flat?  Or were some of the contoured?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 05 October 2015, 12:33:30
I believed the hype surrounding the 'SA' key-profile, and bought the Puls3 set.

I hate typing on it, it feels like a chore, and the keys are way too 'slidy'. But it looks pretty as **** so I won't swap out to a nice DSA set.

Is Pulse a flat design or a countered one?

It's contoured.

It is bad to know contoured SA does not have a nice typing feeling.

Well that's one person's opinion... I can name you quite a few people who love it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 05 October 2015, 13:08:47
I believed the hype surrounding the 'SA' key-profile, and bought the Puls3 set.

I hate typing on it, it feels like a chore, and the keys are way too 'slidy'. But it looks pretty as **** so I won't swap out to a nice DSA set.

Is Pulse a flat design or a countered one?

It's contoured.

It is bad to know contoured SA does not have a nice typing feeling.

Well that's one person's opinion... I can name you quite a few people who love it.

I really enjoy SA but I could understand why some people might not
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 05 October 2015, 13:09:06
I don't get the SA circlejerk.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 05 October 2015, 13:10:55
I believed the hype surrounding the 'SA' key-profile, and bought the Puls3 set.

I hate typing on it, it feels like a chore, and the keys are way too 'slidy'. But it looks pretty as **** so I won't swap out to a nice DSA set.

Is Pulse a flat design or a countered one?

It's contoured.

It is bad to know contoured SA does not have a nice typing feeling.

Well that's one person's opinion... I can name you quite a few people who love it.

Me. Hate all R3, love contoured.  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 05 October 2015, 13:15:04
I believed the hype surrounding the 'SA' key-profile, and bought the Puls3 set.

I hate typing on it, it feels like a chore, and the keys are way too 'slidy'. But it looks pretty as **** so I won't swap out to a nice DSA set.

Is Pulse a flat design or a countered one?

It's contoured.

It is bad to know contoured SA does not have a nice typing feeling.

Well that's one person's opinion... I can name you quite a few people who love it.

Me. Hate all R3, love contoured.  :eek:

Andy I am so freaking excited for Jukebox already!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 05 October 2015, 13:29:03
This one seems unpopular... I like the Romer-G switches.  The board Logitech put it in sucks but I actually liked typing on the switches.  I just wish Logitech would put them in a better keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 05 October 2015, 16:47:40
This one seems unpopular... I like the Romer-G switches.  The board Logitech put it in sucks but I actually liked typing on the switches.  I just wish Logitech would put them in a better keyboard.

I'm pretty sure Bro really likes the Romer G switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Mon, 05 October 2015, 22:27:42
I want to be careful here because I know a few keycap makers, and I like them and love their work. But I think the word artisan is pretentious. And I would even be totally okay to replace it with the keycap artist, or keycap maker, or keycap designer. Artisan just sounds like a buzzword to me. And while we're on the subject, craft in this context is almost as cheesy-sounding as artisan.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 05 October 2015, 23:02:29
most artisan keycaps look horrible
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TopreFan333 on Mon, 05 October 2015, 23:08:03
I want to be careful here because I know a few keycap makers, and I like them and love their work. But I think the word artisan is pretentious. And I would even be totally okay to replace it with the keycap artist, or keycap maker, or keycap designer. Artisan just sounds like a buzzword to me. And while we're on the subject, craft in this context is almost as cheesy-sounding as artisan.

But they're not really keycaps, they're mostly just sh*tty looking toys that people fasten to their keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ika on Mon, 05 October 2015, 23:15:39
60% keyboards are literally a waste of time. And if you don't think hiding functionality behind layers on a 60% loses you any time, you weren't efficient enough in the first place.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Mon, 05 October 2015, 23:48:53
60% keyboards are literally a waste of time. And if you don't think hiding functionality behind layers on a 60% loses you any time, you weren't efficient enough in the first place.

60% isn't necessarily about efficiency but about portability, the multiple layers just makes it more efficient than a 60% without any.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ika on Tue, 06 October 2015, 00:19:00
60% keyboards are literally a waste of time. And if you don't think hiding functionality behind layers on a 60% loses you any time, you weren't efficient enough in the first place.

60% isn't necessarily about efficiency but about portability, the multiple layers just makes it more efficient than a 60% without any.

I'd be willing to bet you most 60% users don't even move their keyboards. A lot of people get 60%s because it "looks neater" or "it's minimalist" or some other bull****. They save a couple of inches from losing the nav keys and in return lose potential savings of MINUTES of their days.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 06 October 2015, 00:22:14
60% keyboards are literally a waste of time. And if you don't think hiding functionality behind layers on a 60% loses you any time, you weren't efficient enough in the first place.

60% isn't necessarily about efficiency but about portability, the multiple layers just makes it more efficient than a 60% without any.

I'd be willing to bet you most 60% users don't even move their keyboards. A lot of people get 60%s because it "looks neater" or "it's minimalist" or some other bull****. They save a couple of inches from losing the nav keys and in return lose potential savings of MINUTES of their days.

I prefer 60% for ergonomics.  The numpad forces me to have my mouse way off in bum****ville and a tenkeyless is mostly useless since the main keys I would use on a TKL are the arrow keys and Delete.  There's just so much wasted space on a TKL.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ika on Tue, 06 October 2015, 00:28:02
oh I just realized the OP was a complaint about 60% keyboards... I need to be more original. uhhhmmmm uhhmmmm

I like typing on MX Browns. And I like to bottom out. And I'm pretty sure I type faster on OEM profile vs Cherry/DCS profile.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blueangel2323 on Tue, 06 October 2015, 00:40:23
most artisan keycaps look horrible
I have to agree with this one. But I'm someone who never understood the gaming aesthetic on computer hardware, including keyboards. To me, keycaps are supposed to be functional and ergonomic, and hopefully look classy while doing it. Why are we spending money to put weird shapes on our keyboards that look completely out of place amongst the other keys, and are an ergonomic nightmare to actually use?

60% keyboards are literally a waste of time. And if you don't think hiding functionality behind layers on a 60% loses you any time, you weren't efficient enough in the first place.

I almost never use the function keys, so I wouldn't miss having that row if I had a 60% keyboard. However I can't see how people could live without the arrow keys, Delete, and Home. I use those all the time. More than I use caps lock, Ctrl, Windows, menu key, or Alt. In fact, I would prefer having a second set of arrow keys to the left of the keyboard as well. Everything else (Print screen, scroll lock, pause, insert, page up and down) I could live without.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shaussman on Tue, 06 October 2015, 02:43:31
The thing with 60%s is that I feel like I use a lot of keys more then I realize. It even makes me a bit hesitant to get a 10kl board because I like the numpad for quite a bit of my number entry. Overall, though, for any reasonable desk you don't need to give up the functionality of a larger keyboard to gain another 2-3" of space. It's just not worth it. 

I probably should downgrade to something smaller because I've been having some wrist pain lately... My stupid school desk has been ruining my mouse position and it's absolutely brutal on both arms
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Tue, 06 October 2015, 06:37:03
most artisan keycaps look horrible
I have to agree with this one. But I'm someone who never understood the gaming aesthetic on computer hardware, including keyboards. To me, keycaps are supposed to be functional and ergonomic, and hopefully look classy while doing it. Why are we spending money to put weird shapes on our keyboards that look completely out of place amongst the other keys, and are an ergonomic nightmare to actually use?

I feel the same way, personally my favorite sculpted keys are the boombox ones from Keycollective. Slick and cool, and fits the aesthetics I like. Just wish I had topre...
It does kind of baffle me that the same people that hate any type of futuristic looking fonts, will also put a robot, an ogre and a space marine on their keyboard and be proud of it.

I did just buy some HKP from the sale, but those are for my gamepad project, which is supposed to be bright, loud and gamer-esque.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 06 October 2015, 08:52:36
most artisan keycaps look horrible
I have to agree with this one. But I'm someone who never understood the gaming aesthetic on computer hardware, including keyboards. To me, keycaps are supposed to be functional and ergonomic, and hopefully look classy while doing it. Why are we spending money to put weird shapes on our keyboards that look completely out of place amongst the other keys, and are an ergonomic nightmare to actually use?

How are artisan caps an ergonomic nightmare?  Some of them are big and bulky, but have you ever put a Clack on a board?  Feels amazing to type on.  Bro's gamer sets are similar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Tue, 06 October 2015, 09:01:50
most artisan keycaps look horrible
I have to agree with this one. But I'm someone who never understood the gaming aesthetic on computer hardware, including keyboards. To me, keycaps are supposed to be functional and ergonomic, and hopefully look classy while doing it. Why are we spending money to put weird shapes on our keyboards that look completely out of place amongst the other keys, and are an ergonomic nightmare to actually use?

How are artisan caps an ergonomic nightmare?  Some of them are big and bulky, but have you ever put a Clack on a board?  Feels amazing to type on.  Bro's gamer sets are similar.

By artisans, he means sculpted caps, not blanks/vents/gamersets/etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 06 October 2015, 09:03:48
I want to be careful here because I know a few keycap makers, and I like them and love their work. But I think the word artisan is pretentious. And I would even be totally okay to replace it with the keycap artist, or keycap maker, or keycap designer. Artisan just sounds like a buzzword to me. And while we're on the subject, craft in this context is almost as cheesy-sounding as artisan.

I've been calling them novelty caps and continue to call em novelties even after that super weird announcement from the admin team that we're calling them artisans for some reason. Also MX compatible lol.

most artisan keycaps look horrible

Yup, I been saying that since Day 1 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65341.msg1529009#msg1529009). It's only getting worse. So many people trying to cash in on making keycaps to take advantage of the hype. And people snapping 'em up without doing any research. Just want to be hypebeasts and part of some weird exclusive club.

Edit: I will say that the upside of all these new novelty caps is that people are actually making stuff now. It's always good to see people making stuff instead of just treating the site like it's a classifieds/group buy site with a cool side-forum.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 06 October 2015, 09:08:52
most artisan keycaps look horrible
I have to agree with this one. But I'm someone who never understood the gaming aesthetic on computer hardware, including keyboards. To me, keycaps are supposed to be functional and ergonomic, and hopefully look classy while doing it. Why are we spending money to put weird shapes on our keyboards that look completely out of place amongst the other keys, and are an ergonomic nightmare to actually use?

How are artisan caps an ergonomic nightmare?  Some of them are big and bulky, but have you ever put a Clack on a board?  Feels amazing to type on.  Bro's gamer sets are similar.

By artisans, he means sculpted caps, not blanks/vents/gamersets/etc.

Well I was primarily referring to Clack Skulls, which are sculpted, but that's a good clarification.  Also, gamer sets are "sculpted" in my opinion.  :P


I want to be careful here because I know a few keycap makers, and I like them and love their work. But I think the word artisan is pretentious. And I would even be totally okay to replace it with the keycap artist, or keycap maker, or keycap designer. Artisan just sounds like a buzzword to me. And while we're on the subject, craft in this context is almost as cheesy-sounding as artisan.

I've been calling them novelty caps and continue to call em novelties even after that super weird announcement from the admin team that we're calling them artisans for some reason. Also MX compatible lol.

I wasn't on the team when that decision was made, but that was a forum-structure distinction that makes sense.  It led to the artisan subforum and a place for makers/crafters to sell things without being proper vendors.  It's not meant to be a buzzword or anything like that.  It's just what we call someone who makes things and sells them at that scale. 

And it led to a good (IMO) distinction between novelty keys (geekhack keys from SP, etc) and artisan keys (handmade/sculpted by members).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sth on Tue, 06 October 2015, 09:09:49
most artisan keycaps look horrible
I have to agree with this one. But I'm someone who never understood the gaming aesthetic on computer hardware, including keyboards. To me, keycaps are supposed to be functional and ergonomic, and hopefully look classy while doing it. Why are we spending money to put weird shapes on our keyboards that look completely out of place amongst the other keys, and are an ergonomic nightmare to actually use?

How are artisan caps an ergonomic nightmare?  Some of them are big and bulky, but have you ever put a Clack on a board?  Feels amazing to type on.  Bro's gamer sets are similar.

By artisans, he means sculpted caps, not blanks/vents/gamersets/etc.

Well I was primarily referring to Clack Skulls, which are sculpted, but that's a good clarification.  Also, gamer sets are "sculpted" in my opinion.  :P


I want to be careful here because I know a few keycap makers, and I like them and love their work. But I think the word artisan is pretentious. And I would even be totally okay to replace it with the keycap artist, or keycap maker, or keycap designer. Artisan just sounds like a buzzword to me. And while we're on the subject, craft in this context is almost as cheesy-sounding as artisan.

I've been calling them novelty caps and continue to call em novelties even after that super weird announcement from the admin team that we're calling them artisans for some reason. Also MX compatible lol.

I wasn't on the team when that decision was made, but that was a forum-structure distinction that makes sense.  It led to the artisan subforum and a place for makers/crafters to sell things without being proper vendors.  It's not meant to be a buzzword or anything like that.  It's just what we call someone who makes things and sells them at that scale. 

And it led to a good (IMO) distinction between novelty keys (geekhack keys from SP, etc) and artisan keys (handmade/sculpted by members).

homemade novelty caps
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Tue, 06 October 2015, 09:30:43
Also MX compatible lol.

You lost me here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 06 October 2015, 09:37:23
Also MX compatible lol.

You lost me here.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56405.0

I still don't get this thread at all. At the time, there was debate where the community wasn't sure if they'd like to call the new Kailh and Gateron switches MX-clones or any other term. For some reason, this thread was made and we're supposed to call them MX-compatible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 06 October 2015, 09:47:58
Also MX compatible lol.

You lost me here.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56405.0

I still don't get this thread at all. At the time, there was debate where the community wasn't sure if they'd like to call the new Kailh and Gateron switches MX-clones or any other term. For some reason, this thread was made and we're supposed to call them MX-compatible.

I still call them fake cherry mx
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Tue, 06 October 2015, 09:51:50
Also MX compatible lol.

You lost me here.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56405.0

I still don't get this thread at all. At the time, there was debate where the community wasn't sure if they'd like to call the new Kailh and Gateron switches MX-clones or any other term. For some reason, this thread was made and we're supposed to call them MX-compatible.

I still call them fake cherry mx
I call Cherry MX, "gritty Gaterons"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 06 October 2015, 18:52:51
This one seems unpopular... I like the Romer-G switches.  The board Logitech put it in sucks but I actually liked typing on the switches.  I just wish Logitech would put them in a better keyboard.

I'm pretty sure Bro really likes the Romer G switches

Hey, there's at least two of us!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 06 October 2015, 20:59:35
I still call them fake cherry mx
I call Cherry MX, "gritty Gaterons"
tru

Also MX compatible lol.

You lost me here.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56405.0

I still don't get this thread at all. At the time, there was debate where the community wasn't sure if they'd like to call the new Kailh and Gateron switches MX-clones or any other term. For some reason, this thread was made and we're supposed to call them MX-compatible.

Yeah, like we can't just call them what they are, we have to think of a new name for all of them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 07 October 2015, 02:54:58
Also MX compatible lol.

You lost me here.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56405.0

I still don't get this thread at all. At the time, there was debate where the community wasn't sure if they'd like to call the new Kailh and Gateron switches MX-clones or any other term. For some reason, this thread was made and we're supposed to call them MX-compatible.

I still call them fake cherry mx
I call Cherry MX, "gritty Gaterons"

Don't you mean "gritteh gats"  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 07 October 2015, 08:04:09
Also MX compatible lol.

You lost me here.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56405.0

I still don't get this thread at all. At the time, there was debate where the community wasn't sure if they'd like to call the new Kailh and Gateron switches MX-clones or any other term. For some reason, this thread was made and we're supposed to call them MX-compatible.

Yeah, like we can't just call them what they are, we have to think of a new name for all of them.

I don't know if you were around at the time, but there was a *lot* of argument surrounding what we should call them.  I think the announcement was really more to get everyone to stop focusing on what to call them and start focusing on how they actually felt. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 07 October 2015, 08:06:24
Also MX compatible lol.

You lost me here.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56405.0

I still don't get this thread at all. At the time, there was debate where the community wasn't sure if they'd like to call the new Kailh and Gateron switches MX-clones or any other term. For some reason, this thread was made and we're supposed to call them MX-compatible.

Yeah, like we can't just call them what they are, we have to think of a new name for all of them.

I don't know if you were around at the time, but there was a *lot* of argument surrounding what we should call them.  I think the announcement was really more to get everyone to stop focusing on what to call them and start focusing on how they actually felt.
Yeah, since Kailh starting popping up like early 2014? But that makes sense, and to their credit it did pretty much stop conversation on it, whether people called it what they asked or just stuck with mx clone once and for all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 07 October 2015, 12:21:31
"skeleton style" keyboards look horrible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 07 October 2015, 12:22:45
"skeleton style" keyboards look horrible.

Do you have an exemple ?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 07 October 2015, 12:28:22
"skeleton style" keyboards look horrible.

Do you have an exemple ?

JD40, Infiniti, any keyboard that has an open frame or is basically just a plate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 07 October 2015, 12:28:31
"skeleton style" keyboards look horrible.

Do you have an exemple ?
jd40
sorry jd
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Wed, 07 October 2015, 13:36:02
Edgar Matias is the pope of the alps religion ;-)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 07 October 2015, 13:41:37
Edgar Matias is the pope of the alps religion ;-)

I don't care for Matias Alps, I think it's the clear plastic shell or something, but they don't feel as good as OG Alps to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 07 October 2015, 14:40:14
I don't like Modern Selectric at all, I have yet to see it go well with a board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 07 October 2015, 15:29:14
I think the community was kind of hypocritical from starting at hating clones (Kailh comes to mind) to going to preferring them (Gateron) because of feels. Was it always about feels or did some righteousness turn into preference? =/

I've never been hypocritical, I hate all clones.. Except for Star Wars - Attack of the Clones

Attack of the Clones=worst movie since the star wars movie that came before it.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ika on Wed, 07 October 2015, 18:58:15
I think the community was kind of hypocritical from starting at hating clones (Kailh comes to mind) to going to preferring them (Gateron) because of feels. Was it always about feels or did some righteousness turn into preference? =/

I've never been hypocritical, I hate all clones.. Except for Star Wars - Attack of the Clones

Attack of the Clones=worst movie since the star wars movie that came before it.



this is supposed to be the unpopular opinion thread :^)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Wed, 07 October 2015, 20:33:28
Edgar Matias is the pope of the alps religion ;-)

I don't care for Matias Alps, I think it's the clear plastic shell or something, but they don't feel as good as OG Alps to me.
I've only tried the quiets so far, but I prefer Matias to dirty OG tactile Alps. And since it's hard to know what you're getting when you buy old Alps sight-unseen, sometimes it's nice to just buy Matias and know they will be smooth.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 07 October 2015, 22:06:35
I think the community was kind of hypocritical from starting at hating clones (Kailh comes to mind) to going to preferring them (Gateron) because of feels. Was it always about feels or did some righteousness turn into preference? =/

I've never been hypocritical, I hate all clones.. Except for Star Wars - Attack of the Clones

Attack of the Clones=worst movie since the star wars movie that came before it.



this is supposed to be the unpopular opinion thread :^)

haha, touche.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 07 October 2015, 22:18:12
Edgar Matias is the pope of the alps religion ;-)

I don't care for Matias Alps, I think it's the clear plastic shell or something, but they don't feel as good as OG Alps to me.
I've only tried the quiets so far, but I prefer Matias to dirty OG tactile Alps. And since it's hard to know what you're getting when you buy old Alps sight-unseen, sometimes it's nice to just buy Matias and know they will be smooth.

I'm fortunate to have had all smooth experiences with the vintage boards I've purchased so far.  I have a Zenith Z-150 that's supposed to be coming in tomorrow. No idea if it will have green or yellow Alps. It was MFG in 1988, so I'm hoping for green! We'll see how smooth they are!

An unpopular opinion? The WKL and HHKB bottom row layout is a blow to functionality despite being aesthetically pleasing. 'Course, remapping can fix these issues. I like having a Windows key, myself, but I will admit that WKL has a nice symmetry to it over the standard layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blueangel2323 on Wed, 07 October 2015, 23:10:48
"skeleton style" keyboards look horrible.

Do you have an exemple ?
jd40
sorry jd

I actually like the simple industrial look... as long as the keycaps are no more than 2 colours :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sth on Wed, 07 October 2015, 23:45:44
Edgar Matias is the pope of the alps religion ;-)

lol no ive said it before and i'll say it again, matias is the sharper image of the alps religion
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 08 October 2015, 00:27:48
Edgar Matias is the pope of the alps religion ;-)

lol no ive said it before and i'll say it again, matias is the sharper image of the alps religion

I think Alps would be the Pope John Paul II of the Alps religion, no? Seeing as they are the OG mfg, ya know (or would that make them god? lol). :P These days, Matias does what they can. I'm glad someone is at least making quality Alps clones and has so much direct communication with the community.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Thu, 08 October 2015, 02:21:15
Edgar Matias is the pope of the alps religion ;-)

lol no ive said it before and i'll say it again, matias is the sharper image of the alps religion

Sharper Image sells you the exact same stuff as other places, for a higher price because they make it look more high-tech. Matias switches are cheaper than old complicated Alps switches, and they actually are (slightly) more high-tech.


I think Alps would be the Pope John Paul II of the Alps religion, no? Seeing as they are the OG mfg, ya know (or would that make them god? lol). :P These days, Matias does what they can. I'm glad someone is at least making quality Alps clones and has so much direct communication with the community.

I think you just proved my point ;-)


edit: this was my 200th post! yay!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Fri, 09 October 2015, 04:55:29
There is an endgame.

edit: this was my 200th post! yay!
Congratulations on 200  :thumb: :)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 09 October 2015, 07:57:14
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 09 October 2015, 08:00:49
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P

65% in azerty flavor.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 09 October 2015, 08:04:15
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P

65% in azerty flavor.

skype_puke_emoticon.gif
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 09 October 2015, 08:13:50
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P

65% in azerty flavor.

skype_puke_emoticon.gif

(http://puu.sh/kDYyK/eeb9efc5bd.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 09 October 2015, 08:14:38
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P

65% in azerty flavor.

skype_puke_emoticon.gif

Show Image
(http://puu.sh/kDYyK/eeb9efc5bd.jpg)


^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: meow a cat on Fri, 09 October 2015, 08:47:22
It's been said before in this thread I think, but I much prefer ABS to PBT.

PBT isn't bad, but worn in ABS just feels 100x better to me.

And I'm not sure if this is really unpopular or not, but I hate non-sculpted keysets and refuse to buy them. :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 09 October 2015, 16:18:56
It's been said before in this thread I think, but I much prefer ABS to PBT.

PBT isn't bad, but worn in ABS just feels 100x better to me.

And I'm not sure if this is really unpopular or not, but I hate non-sculpted keysets and refuse to buy them. :))

I agree on both entirely. PBT feels weirdly clumsy to me (not sure if that's really the right word to describe it), thick ABS is the only way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 09 October 2015, 16:36:20
Depends on the PBT.  I prefer thick worn ABS to PBT most of the time, but I love my PBT sets that came off of Royal Typewriters.  Those are OG Cherry PBT, I believe, and they feel great.  It also seems like PBT gets worse feeling as it ages and ABS gets better feeling.  Thin caps, regardless of ABS or PBT, suck.

I can't get behind POM though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Fri, 09 October 2015, 18:43:23
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P
I've come to a point where I have my favourite version of the HHKB, and will soon have my (hopefully) favourite Korean custom. I can see myself making a keyboard too, but after that, I doubt I'll be interested in anything else. I've quenched my thirst, I have all that I desire. Ya feel me?

If I want a regular white HHKB too, I can simply add it to the collection.

All of this is presuming infinite budget in a perfect world, but that's the idea of it, I guess.

Oh, and if you're in it for the community, you're screwed.  :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 09 October 2015, 18:46:00

There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P
I've come to a point where I have my favourite version of the HHKB, and will soon have my (hopefully) favourite Korean custom. I can see myself making a keyboard too, but after that, I doubt I'll be interested in anything else. I've quenched my thirst, I have all that I desire. Ya feel me?

If I want a regular white HHKB too, I can simply add it to the collection.

All of this is presuming infinite budget in a perfect world, but that's the idea of it, I guess.

Oh, and if you're in it for the community, you're screwed.  :confused:

Haha. Yeah, I'm screwed. 

I'd agree with you to an extent (I've found a few main boards I use all the time), but I still find myself buying/trying more...

:confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 09 October 2015, 18:54:23
My 2 cents of unpopular keyboard opinions:

Bright and shiny, worn off double shot thick and sculpted ABS caps rule.
Windowless ANSI layout with 7x space bar is the only acceptable one.
Boards featuring discrete switches are the only actual mechanical ones.
60% boards with arrows are an oxymoron.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 09 October 2015, 18:55:48
If there was a split HHKB (not Ergodox style, but old Apple Ergo style) that would probably be my "end game" board.  As it is, I'm incredibly happy with the boards I have now and don't really see a need for more outside of doing fun projects.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 09 October 2015, 19:36:44
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P
I've come to a point where I have my favourite version of the HHKB, and will soon have my (hopefully) favourite Korean custom. I can see myself making a keyboard too, but after that, I doubt I'll be interested in anything else. I've quenched my thirst, I have all that I desire. Ya feel me?

If I want a regular white HHKB too, I can simply add it to the collection.

All of this is presuming infinite budget in a perfect world, but that's the idea of it, I guess.

Oh, and if you're in it for the community, you're screwed.  :confused:

well you'll probably have a similar case to me.  two years ago I got my 456gt, but still keep buying keyboard until I got my HBQ.  I would still buy keyboard in the future, but probably not as crazy as before and only buy olivetti and cheap cherry.
oh, maybe topre as well, maybe.
I still consider my 456gt as my endgame keyboard
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 09 October 2015, 19:47:56
I think the end game board is a relative thing, you know? If you're in the hobby for the long term, then end game relates to current interests and the ultimate examples of said interests.

I thought the Octagon would be endgame (and now there's a v2 over the horizon  :-X), then I found Alps and figured my Infinity would be it, but now I have a special backlit green alps 60% in mind.

See where this is going?

Excuse the proceeding gush:

I also have an obscure super low serial# vintage Fame keyboard that has blue alps (not that Aruz switch) in it and looks like a Chicony 5161 http://puu.sh/ksjDc/3fb5587f5c.jpg, which is my endgame in the vintage world because it combines a lot of my favorite things: obscurity/rarity, switch type, and build quality (most Fame boards have a distinctly different body style than mine. see: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Fame_GOG3YLTH-5539). I also grinded out part of the plate to add another switch so that it would be able to take an ANSI-like layout since the Enter key did not have stabilizers on the top half. I was lucky that there was a switch position right where I ground out the plate, but it's only a redundant spot for an Enter key, likely the ISO layout. I've been retrobriting it, I sanded down the plate and back metal panel to eliminate some surface rust and repaint it as I see fit. So there's a lot of work going into that. Ultimately if I could get a Leeku Alps/MX 3000 PCB to put in it, that would be it. Done for that. My favorite vintage.

Anyway, yeah. Endgame is a mixture of current interests and investment in the hobby and if and when you are willing to stop. I have been good at not buying every cool thing in sight and truly sticking to what I find to be ideal for me. Gotta admit I won't be able to pass another Octagon release, especially if it has Alps compatibility this time.

For me 75% is the ultimate practical keyboard, which is why I love my Octagon. TKL is a little superfluous in comparison though I do think they look nice. 60% are really nice to play with but not ideal for me. I like the form factor a lot though. Full-size only works in the vintage spectrum when there is no alternative.

My main desk setup uses a Duck Lightpad/Butterfly Pad and the Octagon, and I don't see that ever changing. I like using the Fame board, but my daily drivers will always be those Ducks.


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 09 October 2015, 19:53:56
Another unpopular opinion: A keyboard aficionado can be very happy with only one favorite board.

The monogamous geek-hacker does exist.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 09 October 2015, 19:57:42
Another unpopular opinion: A keyboard aficionado can be very happy with only one favorite board.

The monogamous geek-hacker does exist.

I actually agree with this! I could live with just one of my keyboards if I had to.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 09 October 2015, 20:06:21
Another unpopular opinion: A keyboard aficionado can be very happy with only one favorite board.

The monogamous geek-hacker does exist.

I actually agree with this! I could live with just one of my keyboards if I had to.

The future has reached us, all the computers are now touch screen, the few geek hackers are now living underground, and the geek police look for him night and day; when they are captured, they are moved to special facilities to be treated to cure them from the illness of the keyboardists, and be returned to the society where they can be again productive and happy citizens living with no keyboards at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hoz on Fri, 09 October 2015, 20:26:57
Another unpopular opinion: A keyboard aficionado can be very happy with only one favorite board.

The monogamous geek-hacker does exist.

well, considering i have quite a few boxes placed all around at home i could make due with one favourite keyboard per station ;P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vibex on Fri, 09 October 2015, 20:28:53
Another unpopular opinion: A keyboard aficionado can be very happy with only one favorite board.

The monogamous geek-hacker does exist.
I've been moving towards this. Still have lots of boards, but most of them just look pretty. May sell them so they can go be with some loving owners.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hoz on Fri, 09 October 2015, 21:49:18
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P

personal bankrupcy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Fri, 09 October 2015, 22:12:00
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P

personal bankrupcy.

My soon-to-be 456gt and Digilog 55g Realforce agree with you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Sat, 10 October 2015, 05:40:07
Quote by jonathanyu:
More
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P
I've come to a point where I have my favourite version of the HHKB, and will soon have my (hopefully) favourite Korean custom. I can see myself making a keyboard too, but after that, I doubt I'll be interested in anything else. I've quenched my thirst, I have all that I desire. Ya feel me?

If I want a regular white HHKB too, I can simply add it to the collection.

All of this is presuming infinite budget in a perfect world, but that's the idea of it, I guess.

Oh, and if you're in it for the community, you're screwed.  :confused:

well you'll probably have a similar case to me.  two years ago I got my 456gt, but still keep buying keyboard until I got my HBQ.  I would still buy keyboard in the future, but probably not as crazy as before and only buy olivetti and cheap cherry.
oh, maybe topre as well, maybe.
I still consider my 456gt as my endgame keyboard


Yes, I get you man. Maybe I'll still be interested, maybe I'm still curious, but I know that I enjoy Cherry over Alps, and Gats over Cherry, linears over tactile, and so on. I definitely have an image of my favourite keyboard, and I'm able to obtain it. Maybe I'll be buying and selling these smaller, interesting things, but I've still reached the endgame, right?

Quote by E3E:
More
I think the end game board is a relative thing, you know? If you're in the hobby for the long term, then end game relates to current interests and the ultimate examples of said interests.

I thought the Octagon would be endgame (and now there's a v2 over the horizon  :-X), then I found Alps and figured my Infinity would be it, but now I have a special backlit green alps 60% in mind.

See where this is going?

Excuse the proceeding gush:

I also have an obscure super low serial# vintage Fame keyboard that has blue alps (not that Aruz switch) in it and looks like a Chicony 5161 http://puu.sh/ksjDc/3fb5587f5c.jpg, which is my endgame in the vintage world because it combines a lot of my favorite things: obscurity/rarity, switch type, and build quality (most Fame boards have a distinctly different body style than mine. see: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Fame_GOG3YLTH-5539). I also grinded out part of the plate to add another switch so that it would be able to take an ANSI-like layout since the Enter key did not have stabilizers on the top half. I was lucky that there was a switch position right where I ground out the plate, but it's only a redundant spot for an Enter key, likely the ISO layout. I've been retrobriting it, I sanded down the plate and back metal panel to eliminate some surface rust and repaint it as I see fit. So there's a lot of work going into that. Ultimately if I could get a Leeku Alps/MX 3000 PCB to put in it, that would be it. Done for that. My favorite vintage.

Anyway, yeah. Endgame is a mixture of current interests and investment in the hobby and if and when you are willing to stop. I have been good at not buying every cool thing in sight and truly sticking to what I find to be ideal for me. Gotta admit I won't be able to pass another Octagon release, especially if it has Alps compatibility this time.

For me 75% is the ultimate practical keyboard, which is why I love my Octagon. TKL is a little superfluous in comparison though I do think they look nice. 60% are really nice to play with but not ideal for me. I like the form factor a lot though. Full-size only works in the vintage spectrum when there is no alternative.

My main desk setup uses a Duck Lightpad/Butterfly Pad and the Octagon, and I don't see that ever changing. I like using the Fame board, but my daily drivers will always be those Ducks.





You've broken it down better than I could. Perhaps I will be bit more conservative in my spending, student's budget and all, but we're definitely on the same page.

E: formatting and spelling
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sat, 10 October 2015, 13:30:08
MX blues would be amazing if the stems weren't so loose.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Sat, 10 October 2015, 14:50:11
Quote by jonathanyu:
More
There is an endgame.

Aaand?!?  What is it??  :P
I've come to a point where I have my favourite version of the HHKB, and will soon have my (hopefully) favourite Korean custom. I can see myself making a keyboard too, but after that, I doubt I'll be interested in anything else. I've quenched my thirst, I have all that I desire. Ya feel me?

If I want a regular white HHKB too, I can simply add it to the collection.

All of this is presuming infinite budget in a perfect world, but that's the idea of it, I guess.

Oh, and if you're in it for the community, you're screwed.  :confused:

well you'll probably have a similar case to me.  two years ago I got my 456gt, but still keep buying keyboard until I got my HBQ.  I would still buy keyboard in the future, but probably not as crazy as before and only buy olivetti and cheap cherry.
oh, maybe topre as well, maybe.
I still consider my 456gt as my endgame keyboard

Yes, I get you man. Maybe I'll still be interested, maybe I'm still curious, but I know that I enjoy Cherry over Alps, and Gats over Cherry, linears over tactile, and so on. I definitely have an image of my favourite keyboard, and I'm able to obtain it. Maybe I'll be buying and selling these smaller, interesting things, but I've still reached the endgame, right?

Quote by E3E:
More
I think the end game board is a relative thing, you know? If you're in the hobby for the long term, then end game relates to current interests and the ultimate examples of said interests.

I thought the Octagon would be endgame (and now there's a v2 over the horizon  :-X), then I found Alps and figured my Infinity would be it, but now I have a special backlit green alps 60% in mind.

See where this is going?

Excuse the proceeding gush:

I also have an obscure super low serial# vintage Fame keyboard that has blue alps (not that Aruz switch) in it and looks like a Chicony 5161 http://puu.sh/ksjDc/3fb5587f5c.jpg, which is my endgame in the vintage world because it combines a lot of my favorite things: obscurity/rarity, switch type, and build quality (most Fame boards have a distinctly different body style than mine. see: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Fame_GOG3YLTH-5539). I also grinded out part of the plate to add another switch so that it would be able to take an ANSI-like layout since the Enter key did not have stabilizers on the top half. I was lucky that there was a switch position right where I ground out the plate, but it's only a redundant spot for an Enter key, likely the ISO layout. I've been retrobriting it, I sanded down the plate and back metal panel to eliminate some surface rust and repaint it as I see fit. So there's a lot of work going into that. Ultimately if I could get a Leeku Alps/MX 3000 PCB to put in it, that would be it. Done for that. My favorite vintage.

Anyway, yeah. Endgame is a mixture of current interests and investment in the hobby and if and when you are willing to stop. I have been good at not buying every cool thing in sight and truly sticking to what I find to be ideal for me. Gotta admit I won't be able to pass another Octagon release, especially if it has Alps compatibility this time.

For me 75% is the ultimate practical keyboard, which is why I love my Octagon. TKL is a little superfluous in comparison though I do think they look nice. 60% are really nice to play with but not ideal for me. I like the form factor a lot though. Full-size only works in the vintage spectrum when there is no alternative.

My main desk setup uses a Duck Lightpad/Butterfly Pad and the Octagon, and I don't see that ever changing. I like using the Fame board, but my daily drivers will always be those Ducks.



You've broken it down better than I could. Perhaps I will be bit more conservative in my spending, student's budget and all, but were definitely on the same page.

that's exactly what i mean
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 11 October 2015, 23:41:45
MX blues would be amazing if the stems weren't so loose.

That's why Hi-Tek Space Invaders are nicer than MX Blue.

Very stable, and the click is a bit more subtle.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kazekumiho on Mon, 12 October 2015, 03:09:49
My unpopular opinion? I love the Cherry G84-4100...with ML switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kurplop on Mon, 12 October 2015, 08:02:54
My unpopular opinion? I love the Cherry G84-4100...with ML switches.

Agreed. The ML is great if you need a switch for a compact application.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: meow a cat on Mon, 12 October 2015, 13:11:56
Depends on the PBT.  I prefer thick worn ABS to PBT most of the time, but I love my PBT sets that came off of Royal Typewriters.  Those are OG Cherry PBT, I believe, and they feel great.  It also seems like PBT gets worse feeling as it ages and ABS gets better feeling.  Thin caps, regardless of ABS or PBT, suck.

I can't get behind POM though.

Yeah, any caps suck if they're thin. Agree with you there for sure. Thick PBT is nice, I don't mind the Gateron PBT for example, it's really smooth. It feels a little cold and unfeeling though, whereas ABS feels warm and welcoming like a well worn-in home.  :))

What didn't you like about POM? I haven't tried it yet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 12 October 2015, 13:51:30
It's just too slippery/slick and unpleasant feeling.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Ralph Furley on Mon, 12 October 2015, 16:41:42
Edited in Update


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 12 October 2015, 19:57:18
The POK3R is nothing special, even a little lame.

PBT doesnt deserve the undying circle-jerking surrounding it. I really enjoy POM and ABS caps as well, usually even more.

Not all rubber dome keyboards suck, some are pretty dang enjoyable.
 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 12 October 2015, 20:34:35
The POK3R is nothing special, even a little lame.

PBT doesnt deserve the undying circle-jerking surrounding it. I really enjoy POM and ABS caps as well, usually even more.

Not all rubber dome keyboards suck, some are pretty dang enjoyable.

I am pretty much agree with you; still, I prefer a mechanical keyboard, over even the most sophisticated rubber dome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 12 October 2015, 21:36:56
The POK3R is nothing special, even a little lame.

PBT doesnt deserve the undying circle-jerking surrounding it. I really enjoy POM and ABS caps as well, usually even more.

Not all rubber dome keyboards suck, some are pretty dang enjoyable.

I am pretty much agree with you; still, I prefer a mechanical keyboard, over even the most sophisticated rubber dome.

I'll pretty much agree, absolutely prefer them, but having to use one doesn't always result in this...
(http://i.giphy.com/cQtlhD48EG0SY.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 13 October 2015, 00:20:47
The POK3R is nothing special, even a little lame.

PBT doesnt deserve the undying circle-jerking surrounding it. I really enjoy POM and ABS caps as well, usually even more.

Not all rubber dome keyboards suck, some are pretty dang enjoyable.

I actually fall in love with rubberdome recently.  No, not topre. but dell rubberdome
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 13 October 2015, 07:47:24
The POK3R is nothing special, even a little lame.

PBT doesnt deserve the undying circle-jerking surrounding it. I really enjoy POM and ABS caps as well, usually even more.

Not all rubber dome keyboards suck, some are pretty dang enjoyable.

I am pretty much agree with you; still, I prefer a mechanical keyboard, over even the most sophisticated rubber dome.

I'll pretty much agree, absolutely prefer them, but having to use one doesn't always result in this...
Show Image
(http://i.giphy.com/cQtlhD48EG0SY.gif)


Grand Torino is a great movie, I should see it again this weekend.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tararais on Tue, 13 October 2015, 11:23:40
I would rather have thin PBT or even regular ABS over thick PBT. Stuff mutes clicks and doesn't allow the feel of the switch nearly as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 13 October 2015, 11:45:57
I would rather have thin PBT or even regular ABS over thick PBT. Stuff mutes clicks and doesn't allow the feel of the switch nearly as well.

I do hear thinner caps are happy times for clicky switches, but how about for linear switches? Thicker caps for a nicer thock? :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 13 October 2015, 23:02:29
I love sp dcs.
I miss sp dcs groupbuy.  :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 14 October 2015, 07:39:34
I love sp dcs.
I miss sp dcs groupbuy.  :(

What? This opinion is not just unpopular, it is insane.

 :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JiveMasterT on Wed, 14 October 2015, 21:26:30
Dell rubber domes when they are brand new are pretty sweet. They degrade to mushy after about 6 months. When I worked in IT I would just swap mine out with new stock every few months to keep the feeling.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tararais on Wed, 14 October 2015, 21:32:06
I love sp dcs.
I miss sp dcs groupbuy.  :(

What? This opinion is not just unpopular, it is insane.

 :)) :)) :))
 
I hear a lot of crap going SP's way for their DCS; are theirs worse than, say Ctrl+Alt?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 14 October 2015, 22:33:55
I love sp dcs.
I miss sp dcs groupbuy.  :(

What? This opinion is not just unpopular, it is insane.

 :)) :)) :))
 
I hear a lot of crap going SP's way for their DCS; are theirs worse than, say Ctrl+Alt?

Signature Plastics is the only manufacturer that makes DCS, same with SA and DSA. So [CTRL]ALT gets the same DCS everyone else gets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 14 October 2015, 22:35:12
Dell rubber domes when they are brand new are pretty sweet. They degrade to mushy after about 6 months. When I worked in IT I would just swap mine out with new stock every few months to keep the feeling.

Are you talking about Dell Quiet Key? The tactility is alright, but they are far too heavy...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 14 October 2015, 22:35:49
The POK3R is nothing special, even a little lame.

PBT doesnt deserve the undying circle-jerking surrounding it. I really enjoy POM and ABS caps as well, usually even more.

Not all rubber dome keyboards suck, some are pretty dang enjoyable.

I am pretty much agree with you; still, I prefer a mechanical keyboard, over even the most sophisticated rubber dome.

I'll pretty much agree, absolutely prefer them, but having to use one doesn't always result in this...
Show Image
(http://i.giphy.com/cQtlhD48EG0SY.gif)


Grand Torino is a great movie, I should see it again this weekend.

Now that you've mentioned it...

The LSB house will be projecting Gran Torino in the backyard this weekend. Everyone can come. NC meetup 1.5 for this month  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 14 October 2015, 22:40:03
Dell rubber domes when they are brand new are pretty sweet. They degrade to mushy after about 6 months. When I worked in IT I would just swap mine out with new stock every few months to keep the feeling.

Are you talking about Dell Quiet Key? The tactility is alright, but they are far too heavy...

I would assume so, I think everyone has a handful (or truckload) of them in the workplace. Still, they are far better than most of the short throw dome keyboards that come with most new PC's I think.

Pic for reference
(http://www.pc-outlet.hu/images/DELL_Quietkey.jpg)

Not the best domes by far, but not terrible. Much better than the new Dell keyboards that have an extremely short throw rubber dome that we are getting in these days
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61YGBuXS6XL._SX450_.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 14 October 2015, 22:53:46
I love sp dcs.
I miss sp dcs groupbuy.  :(

What? This opinion is not just unpopular, it is insane.

 :)) :)) :))

I don't know why, but I really really like typing on dcs.  and I think the legend is just awesome.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Wed, 14 October 2015, 22:53:52
Dell rubber domes when they are brand new are pretty sweet. They degrade to mushy after about 6 months. When I worked in IT I would just swap mine out with new stock every few months to keep the feeling.

Are you talking about Dell Quiet Key? The tactility is alright, but they are far too heavy...

I would assume so, I think everyone has a handful (or truckload) of them in the workplace. Still, they are far better than most of the short throw dome keyboards that come with most new PC's I think.

Pic for reference
Show Image
(http://www.pc-outlet.hu/images/DELL_Quietkey.jpg)


Not the best domes by far, but not terrible. Much better than the new Dell keyboards that have an extremely short throw rubber dome that we are getting in these days
Show Image
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61YGBuXS6XL._SX450_.jpg)


You all are not alone. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73999.0) :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JiveMasterT on Wed, 14 October 2015, 23:09:56
Yeah I'm talking about the Dell Enhanced Multimedia Keyboard.  There was a variant without the media controls that was almost exactly the same.  I loved that keyboard.  Admittedly, that was roughly 7 years ago.  I haven't used one in a long time.

(http://www.bohemianalps.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/xps-keyboard.jpg)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 14 October 2015, 23:24:26
I don't know if I've ever typed on one of those.

I'm talking about the old Quiet Key:

(http://i.imgur.com/7bZPMgO.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 14 October 2015, 23:32:03
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tararais on Thu, 15 October 2015, 00:02:29
I don't know if I've ever typed on one of those.

I'm talking about the old Quiet Key:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/7bZPMgO.jpg)

 
I have one of those at home, nicest rubber domes I've ever used. (coughbetterthanbrownscough)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 15 October 2015, 09:15:28
Not the best domes by far, but not terrible. Much better than the new Dell keyboards that have an extremely short throw rubber dome that we are getting in these days
Show Image
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61YGBuXS6XL._SX450_.jpg)


/me looks down in shame as he types this message from that very keyboard.   :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 15 October 2015, 14:03:23
I don't know if I've ever typed on one of those.

I'm talking about the old Quiet Key:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/7bZPMgO.jpg)


Ah, yeah and I've only used the older version a handful of times, and wasn't in "testing" mode so don't remember much about it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 15 October 2015, 14:04:28
Not the best domes by far, but not terrible. Much better than the new Dell keyboards that have an extremely short throw rubber dome that we are getting in these days
Show Image
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61YGBuXS6XL._SX450_.jpg)


/me looks down in shame as he types this message from that very keyboard.   :-X

or you could buy a HiPro. And you could bring it to work. And then you could remove the shame.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 15 October 2015, 14:05:35
Not the best domes by far, but not terrible. Much better than the new Dell keyboards that have an extremely short throw rubber dome that we are getting in these days

/me looks down in shame as he types this message from that very keyboard.   :-X

or you could buy a HiPro. And you could bring it to work. And then you could remove the shame.  :p

I could indeed.  I could indeed...

 :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Thu, 15 October 2015, 16:24:33
Perhaps not popular... but the HHKB is so far the least refined Topre keyboard I've used so far.

In fact, I'd say that some of the old Keytronic keyboards felt smoother and sounded more consistent.

Fire away.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 15 October 2015, 16:37:39
Perhaps not popular... but the HHKB is so far the least refined Topre keyboard I've used so far.

In fact, I'd say that some of the old Keytronic keyboards felt smoother and sounded more consistent.

Fire away.

What keyboards are you considering to be Topre?  Do the recent clones count in that group?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Thu, 15 October 2015, 17:26:25
What keyboards are you considering to be Topre?  Do the recent clones count in that group?

I've only used the 45g and 55g 87U, HHKB, and Novatouch.

I haven't used the others.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 15 October 2015, 20:00:58
Perhaps not popular... but the HHKB is so far the least refined Topre keyboard I've used so far.

In fact, I'd say that some of the old Keytronic keyboards felt smoother and sounded more consistent.

Fire away.

On the other hand, I feel that Realfirce boards,the FC660C, and the Novatouch all feel like crap compared to the HHKB. They bottom it harshly and, in the case of the Novatouch, feel unrefined and crappy due to a case with too loose of tolerances and stabilizers that rattle too much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tararais on Thu, 15 October 2015, 20:05:35
Perhaps not popular... but the HHKB is so far the least refined Topre keyboard I've used so far.

In fact, I'd say that some of the old Keytronic keyboards felt smoother and sounded more consistent.

Fire away.

On the other hand, I feel that Realfirce boards,the FC660C, and the Novatouch all feel like crap compared to the HHKB. They bottom it harshly and, in the case of the Novatouch, feel unrefined and crappy due to a case with too loose of tolerances and stabilizers that rattle too much.
 
Bottoming out harshly only has to do with how you press the board. If you slam the key it'll bottom out hard, regardless of whether you're using case or plate mounted switches. While I like the softness of the HHKB, calling Realforce/FC660C something with 'loose tolerances' is ludicrous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 15 October 2015, 20:11:51
Perhaps not popular... but the HHKB is so far the least refined Topre keyboard I've used so far.

In fact, I'd say that some of the old Keytronic keyboards felt smoother and sounded more consistent.

Fire away.

On the other hand, I feel that Realfirce boards,the FC660C, and the Novatouch all feel like crap compared to the HHKB. They bottom it harshly and, in the case of the Novatouch, feel unrefined and crappy due to a case with too loose of tolerances and stabilizers that rattle too much.
 
Bottoming out harshly only has to do with how you press the board. If you slam the key it'll bottom out hard, regardless of whether you're using case or plate mounted switches. While I like the softness of the HHKB, calling Realforce/FC660C something with 'loose tolerances' is ludicrous.

Please reread what I wrote.  The Novatouch is the one with the loose tolerances, not the FC660C or Realforce boards.  It feels wobbly and creaky and the stabilizers rattle.  No board that costs more than $150 should feel that way.

And the metal plate Topre boards all have a jarring bottom out because the actuation point is so close to the bottoming out point that you have to be a wizard to never bottom out with them.

Also, lol:

Oh boy, aggressive "keyboard" warrior..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JiveMasterT on Thu, 15 October 2015, 20:22:38
Bottoming out is all about how violent you type and how shallow the keys are. I spent about 4 years building a business on an Apple aluminum keyboard. Lots of caffeine and booze and slowly I had etched grooves into the left command key. I used every inch of that keyboard and it paid for itself many times over.

That being said, RSI is very real and it can happen to someone bottoming out keys a lot and sitting in a crappy chair with no support. Lots of people complain about it but no one spends the time to figure out the cause.

Now I run mechs only, with brown switches, and my pain comes and goes. People talk wild **** about browns but at the end of the day if you have an injury and they work for you then just use them.

I didn't get into mechs because I felt like they were magical or I was superior to people using rubber. I got into mechs because they don't further my injuries and they don't prevent me from being productive.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tararais on Thu, 15 October 2015, 20:45:33
Perhaps not popular... but the HHKB is so far the least refined Topre keyboard I've used so far.

In fact, I'd say that some of the old Keytronic keyboards felt smoother and sounded more consistent.

Fire away.

On the other hand, I feel that Realfirce boards,the FC660C, and the Novatouch all feel like crap compared to the HHKB. They bottom it harshly and, in the case of the Novatouch, feel unrefined and crappy due to a case with too loose of tolerances and stabilizers that rattle too much.
 
Bottoming out harshly only has to do with how you press the board. If you slam the key it'll bottom out hard, regardless of whether you're using case or plate mounted switches. While I like the softness of the HHKB, calling Realforce/FC660C something with 'loose tolerances' is ludicrous.

Please reread what I wrote.  The Novatouch is the one with the loose tolerances, not the FC660C or Realforce boards.  It feels wobbly and creaky and the stabilizers rattle.  No board that costs more than $150 should feel that way.

And the metal plate Topre boards all have a jarring bottom out because the actuation point is so close to the bottoming out point that you have to be a wizard to never bottom out with them.

Also, lol:

Oh boy, aggressive "keyboard" warrior..
   
My bad, misread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Thu, 15 October 2015, 22:31:28
Perhaps not popular... but the HHKB is so far the least refined Topre keyboard I've used so far.

In fact, I'd say that some of the old Keytronic keyboards felt smoother and sounded more consistent.

Fire away.

On the other hand, I feel that Realfirce boards,the FC660C, and the Novatouch all feel like crap compared to the HHKB. They bottom it harshly and, in the case of the Novatouch, feel unrefined and crappy due to a case with too loose of tolerances and stabilizers that rattle too much.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion. I wonder if there are differences in age that make them vary in terms of characteristics.

I listened to a ton of videos of HHKBs on YouTube (yes, yes..) and I didn't notice any of them sounding like this. For example, my G-H keys and O-P keys sound like they're from a completely different keyboard. Or perhaps like the G-H are thick PBT while the O-P are thin ABS and have sound deadening. It makes it strange to listen to typing with so many various sounds.

The stabilizers have absolutely no rattle whatsoever, though, and that's pretty nice for a change. The 87U has a pretty negligible amount of stabilizer rattle compared to the MX boards with Costar stabilizers that I have, though.

I don't know what to make of the grittiness in the keys though. You can feel it as well as hear a hiss-like noise, even if you press it really slowly. It isn't quite as noticeable when you're typing quickly, at least. Perhaps it will break in a bit... who knows. Every now and again a key will kind of squeak almost.

All I really know is that after using this HHKB for a few hours, when I go back to my 45g 87U, it feels softer, smoother, quite a bit quieter, and sounds far more consistent. Maybe I have a bad copy of the HHKB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 21 October 2015, 12:20:03
Gonna revive this thread with this: WoB looks really damn bad imo.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 21 October 2015, 12:28:26
Perhaps not popular... but the HHKB is so far the least refined Topre keyboard I've used so far.

In fact, I'd say that some of the old Keytronic keyboards felt smoother and sounded more consistent.

Fire away.

On the other hand, I feel that Realfirce boards,the FC660C, and the Novatouch all feel like crap compared to the HHKB. They bottom it harshly and, in the case of the Novatouch, feel unrefined and crappy due to a case with too loose of tolerances and stabilizers that rattle too much.
 
Bottoming out harshly only has to do with how you press the board. If you slam the key it'll bottom out hard, regardless of whether you're using case or plate mounted switches. While I like the softness of the HHKB, calling Realforce/FC660C something with 'loose tolerances' is ludicrous.

I have two FC660C's, a black and white one, BOTH have a warped bottom shells, meaning they rock slightly with and without feet down. Pretty damn annoying. They feel great, but they do have some quality issues for sure.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 21 October 2015, 12:40:33
Gonna revive this thread with this: WoB looks really damn bad imo.

This is for unpopular opinions, not wrong opinions.  :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 21 October 2015, 12:51:47
Gonna revive this thread with this: WoB looks really damn bad imo.

This is for unpopular opinions, not wrong opinions.  :P

What he said  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Wed, 21 October 2015, 12:53:04
I wouldn't say that WoB looks bad but just like classic beige, it just looks boring to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 21 October 2015, 12:53:05
Gonna revive this thread with this: WoB looks really damn bad imo.

This is for unpopular opinions, not wrong opinions.  :P

What he said  :))
**** ya'll Beige for lyfe
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 21 October 2015, 13:02:13
I wouldn't say that WoB looks bad but just like classic beige, it just looks boring to me.

I won't argue that. I dont have any. But the designs are solid, and the finishes are quite cool.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 21 October 2015, 13:27:31
OG Cherry sets that are in the "common" WoB, BoB double shot combinations; or in the more scarce, TA (the original) or Dolch combinations, or the even rare Red one, are all classics. As with any classic, for some they are boring, for others are just elegant. In any case, they were manufacture in long production runs that increased the stability of the processes making quality defects less likely to occur, small runs, even when they may appear to be large for a group buy, like the recent MD TA run, are more prone to present quality mistakes; therefore, OGs are of higher quality.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 21 October 2015, 13:29:08
OG Cherry sets that are in the "common" WoB, BoB double shot combinations; or in the more scarce, TA (the original) or Dolch combinations, or the even rare Red one, are all classics. As with any classic, for some they are boring, for others are just elegant. In any case, they were manufacture in long production runs that increased the stability of the processes making quality defects less likely to occur, small runs, even when they may appear to be large for a group buy, like the recent MD TA run, are more prone to present quality mistakes; therefore, OGs are of higher quality.
Don't get me wrong, I refuse to type on anything other than OG Beige.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Wed, 21 October 2015, 13:38:02
Don't get me wrong, I refuse to type on anything other than OG Beige.

(http://i.imgur.com/qh14c.gif)

 :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 21 October 2015, 14:43:05
Gonna revive this thread with this: WoB looks really damn bad imo.

This is for unpopular opinions, not wrong opinions.  :P

What he said  :))
**** ya'll Beige for lyfe

While I do think I am more a fan of the unicorn vomit custom key cap sets we have today, the OG sets are classy and I can appreciate them. I used to feel disgusted by how plain they were.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:10:43
there are WAY too much artisan keycaps on gh
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:15:14
there are WAY too much artisan keycaps on gh

But where would we be without them? They cause so much drama and commotion! :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:15:49
The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:19:16
The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.
I mean only some of them are, and that bothers me more personally. I think Binge's caps are freaking amazing, and I'm not demeaning his in any way, but there are other artisan makers who are making equally cool things that don't really get the God status that Binge does. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't deserve it, as I said, his work is amazing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:19:43
there are WAY too much artisan keycaps on gh

But where would we be without them? They cause so much drama and commotion! :P
More discussion on keyboard. Just look at the classfield section and the what did you get in the mail today thread..... they are literally full of artisan keycaps. I remeber two or three years ago when I read posts on gh, there was much more discussion on keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:23:06
The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.

It's downright stupid, you see the same 2-3 people always posting after Bro or Hipster.
DOn't get me wrong they both are very cool, but it looks like people are just mindlessly "upvoting" them around
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:25:29
oh, i know its super unpopular, but i like the look of the hhkb metal case that on md right now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:25:48
The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.

They are the closest things to celebrities within the keyboard community though

Apart from Eiiti Wada - The Godfather of HHKB  :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:26:12
More discussion on keyboard. Just look at the classfield section and the what did you get in the mail today thread..... they are literally full of artisan keycaps. I remeber two or three years ago when I read posts on gh, there was much more discussion on keyboard.
I can agree with this to some extent. I don't really think there's too many artisans, but sometimes I feel like a lot less interesting keyboard projects are being done because it's easier for people to make artisans if they're going to do DIY. I'm not trying to demean the artisan craft by any means, but I think people see it as being an easy way to make money, not that it actually is. I'm totally guilty of getting into making artisans because I'm scared of board modding, so I don't have a ton of license to complain, but I've never really gotten into collecting mass amounts of them. So, in short, I'm fine with a ton of artisans, but I'd prefer that they not come at the extent of interesting board projects.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:28:39
oh, i know its super unpopular, but i like the look of the hhkb metal case that on md right now.

you're kind of the master of unpopular opinions anyway :>
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:29:15
oh, i know its super unpopular, but i like the look of the hhkb metal case that on md right now.

you're kind of the master of unpopular opinions anyway :>

 ^-^ yeah, i know
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:31:54
The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.
I mean only some of them are, and that bothers me more personally. I think Binge's caps are freaking amazing, and I'm not demeaning his in any way, but there are other artisan makers who are making equally cool things that don't really get the God status that Binge does. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't deserve it, as I said, his work is amazing.

I've always thought Binge was under-appreciated.  The dude basically (literally) wrote the book on casting at home, and so many have learned from him.  Maybe I'm just not seeing all the comments you're referring to though.  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 21 October 2015, 17:38:10
I've always thought Binge was under-appreciated.  The dude basically (literally) wrote the book on casting at home, and so many have learned from him.  Maybe I'm just not seeing all the comments you're referring to though.  ;)
I know he's done a lot, maybe he's not the best comparison. I'm just saying there's some people who I feel do amazing work that are relatively under-appreciated compared to kind of the standard names in artisan market like clacks, bros, and binge caps. I'm by no means saying he's over appreciated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 21 October 2015, 19:39:30
The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.
I mean only some of them are, and that bothers me more personally. I think Binge's caps are freaking amazing, and I'm not demeaning his in any way, but there are other artisan makers who are making equally cool things that don't really get the God status that Binge does. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't deserve it, as I said, his work is amazing.

I've always thought Binge was under-appreciated.  The dude basically (literally) wrote the book on casting at home, and so many have learned from him.  Maybe I'm just not seeing all the comments you're referring to though.  ;)

Ok, I'm going to be pedantic only because I feel overlooked and there's history that came before me and inspired me to try and share my methods and how to cast at home.

Ishtob is the first one that I know of that addressed casting at home (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=23722.0).  AFAIK, after that it was Matt3o who did a little something (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35572.0).

After both of those, I did my first guide (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41371.0).  I started to keep track of other experiments (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51973.0) and publicly discussed and shared my methods.  After that, Binge wrote up his guide.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 21 October 2015, 19:44:00
The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.
I mean only some of them are, and that bothers me more personally. I think Binge's caps are freaking amazing, and I'm not demeaning his in any way, but there are other artisan makers who are making equally cool things that don't really get the God status that Binge does. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't deserve it, as I said, his work is amazing.

I've always thought Binge was under-appreciated.  The dude basically (literally) wrote the book on casting at home, and so many have learned from him.  Maybe I'm just not seeing all the comments you're referring to though.  ;)

Ok, I'm going to be pedantic only because I feel overlooked and there's history that came before me and inspired me to try and share my methods and how to cast at home.

Ishtob is the first one that I know of that addressed casting at home (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=23722.0).  AFAIK, after that it was Matt3o who did a little something (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35572.0).

After both of those, I did my first guide (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41371.0).  I started to keep track of other experiments (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51973.0) and publicly discussed and shared my methods.  After that, Binge wrote up his guide.
Interesting, I would put you on my list of under-appreciated artisan cap makers, but not for the same reasons. I wasn't really talking about the trails people have blazed, more about their work, but this is also an interesting perspective.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 21 October 2015, 19:47:28
I have no problem with being overlooked.  It's always been about having fun for me and sharing my projects with others.  I was just wanting roots to be respected.  I always try to give credit to those who came before me that I drew on.  Sometimes I forget, but it's always nice to recognize people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 21 October 2015, 19:48:53
I have no problem with being overlooked.
And for the rest of us it means less competition on your sales  :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 21 October 2015, 21:34:54
In everything I do when it comes to modding my boards or customizing things, it's always for fun and aesthetics, trying to make something nice that can reflect my individuality, I guess. I like unique things, even if it's just something silly and minor. I like sculpting and such and have been wanting a vacuum pot for a while even before being in the keyboard scene, but it's never been enough of a priority to shell out for them. I'd definitely start by making sculpted caps I've always wanted to see, and right now, they'd probably all be Alps-based, haha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zombii on Wed, 21 October 2015, 23:43:35
This is probably an unpopular opinion that has been posted before, but I just honestly don't understand the hype behind Topre. After using them for a month, I had to switch back to my Poker. They just felt too springy and a little bit mushy to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 22 October 2015, 12:43:22
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 22 October 2015, 15:25:13
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.
I haven't received mine yet, so I have no judgement, but I'm glad we're past the honeymoon period. I'm sure the switches will be amazing for me, but it's good to have healthy, constructive criticisms as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 22 October 2015, 15:28:05
This is probably an unpopular opinion that has been posted before, but I just honestly don't understand the hype behind Topre. After using them for a month, I had to switch back to my Poker. They just felt too springy and a little bit mushy to me.

Different strokes for different folks.  I hate Realforce boards, the FC660C,  and the Novatouch, but love my HHKB.  I think Model Ms are a joke and feel like crap, but love Model Fs.  I'd rather use a membrane board than anything with MX Blues.  I think "vintage" Blacks are all placebo effect and hype but that there's a noticeable positive difference between new and "vintage" Browns and Blues and so on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 22 October 2015, 15:31:50
there are WAY too much artisan keycaps on gh

But where would we be without them? They cause so much drama and commotion! :P
More discussion on keyboard. Just look at the classfield section and the what did you get in the mail today thread..... they are literally full of artisan keycaps. I remeber two or three years ago when I read posts on gh, there was much more discussion on keyboard.

I agree, there's too much focus on novelty caps.

And I never see you posting in Making Stuff Together johnathanyu. Easily the best forum on Geekhack which talks about keyboards all the time. I've often thought how great it would be if only that sub-forum and Keyboards existed. Maybe media too. Classifieds and GBs could get nuked. I'm ok with that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 22 October 2015, 17:13:31
Too many people try to make artisan caps that have little to no artistic ability whatsoever. Also, if you're doing it for the first time, don't sell the ****ty things for like $10.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dr_habu on Thu, 22 October 2015, 18:20:45
I hate backlit keyboards. They serve absolutely no practical purpose, look terrible, and their glow in my peripheral vision keeps distracting me from what's on the screen in front of me.

Colourful keycaps. Dolch colour scheme is probably as wild as I'd go.


People think they want something, but they have no idea. You have to tell someone what they need, not ask them what they want.


Henry Ford once said: "If I asked people what they want they'd just tell me that they wanted faster horses."
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dutC4 on Thu, 22 October 2015, 22:45:17
 :blank:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Thu, 22 October 2015, 22:52:18
I hate Realforce boards

Reported.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tararais on Fri, 23 October 2015, 01:32:42
Too many people try to make artisan caps that have little to no artistic ability whatsoever. Also, if you're doing it for the first time, don't sell the ****ty things for like $10.
 
Ah, when I see some oddly-shaped hunk of plastic selling for $20+ on reddit.. sad days.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ika on Fri, 23 October 2015, 01:37:05
I tested a Novatouch today and I think with thicker caps it would feel better than a Realforce.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 23 October 2015, 09:51:10
I tested a Novatouch today and I think with thicker caps it would feel better than a Realforce.
Is this unpopular? I thought the novatouch I tried was weirdly tactile for a 45g and loved it. If I liked TKLs and they made a 55g I'd probably buy one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 23 October 2015, 09:52:57
Too many people try to make artisan caps that have little to no artistic ability whatsoever. Also, if you're doing it for the first time, don't sell the ****ty things for like $10.
 
Ah, when I see some oddly-shaped hunk of plastic selling for $20+ on reddit.. sad days.
Double post but whatever.

This idea perfectly shows how desperate reddit is for artisans. They'll buy any artisan regardless of design or quality.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: beehatch on Fri, 23 October 2015, 09:55:46
Too many people try to make artisan caps that have little to no artistic ability whatsoever. Also, if you're doing it for the first time, don't sell the ****ty things for like $10.

I can't believe it, but I'm actually in agreement with you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asgeirtj on Fri, 23 October 2015, 13:44:17
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 23 October 2015, 14:04:55
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 23 October 2015, 14:22:56
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 23 October 2015, 14:23:34
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

Cherry mx?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 23 October 2015, 14:27:59
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

Cherry mx?

This has been extensively discussed already, MX patent is expired, so now we have similar switches made by some manufacturers. A fake is something that claims to be another thing, nobody has said that a Gateron is the same than an MX; furthermore, this particular combination is not made by Cherry, meaning the spring and stem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 23 October 2015, 14:36:21
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

Cherry mx?

This has been extensively discussed already, MX patent is expired, so now we have similar switches made by some manufacturers. A fake is something that claims to be another thing, nobody has said that a Gateron is the same than an MX; furthermore, this particular combination is not made by Cherry, meaning the spring and stem.

I am sorry, I should not use the word fake, I don't know what word should I use since english is not my native language. To me, the housing, the stem all look the same to Cherry mx, just in a different color. I am not talking particular zealio switches here, I am talking about all the "mx like" switches. I don't hate them, but I don't like them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 23 October 2015, 14:42:46
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

Cherry mx?

This has been extensively discussed already, MX patent is expired, so now we have similar switches made by some manufacturers. A fake is something that claims to be another thing, nobody has said that a Gateron is the same than an MX; furthermore, this particular combination is not made by Cherry, meaning the spring and stem.

I am sorry, I should not use the word fake, I don't know what word should I use since english is not my native language. To me, the housing, the stem all look the same to Cherry mx, just in a different color. I am not talking particular zealio switches here, I am talking about all the "mx like" switches. I don't hate them, but I don't like them.

I think you are looking for the word clone, although many months ago the forum staff said we were supposed to refer to them as 'mx-compatible' switches  :)) ::)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 October 2015, 15:10:09
There are a ton of clones out there. I can understand why there is appreciation for the originals, and why the derivatives obviously seem less inspired. On the other hand, designs that deviate and TRY to bring something new like that Omron Romer-G switch are typically panned. Not saying it's without good reason, but yeah.

A lot of people are getting fed up with Cherry due to their inability to meet production demands and the scratchiness of their switches (which is apparently due to worn molds or a change in plastic, or just the fact that older switches are more worn down and feel smoother).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 23 October 2015, 15:41:05
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

Cherry mx?

This has been extensively discussed already, MX patent is expired, so now we have similar switches made by some manufacturers. A fake is something that claims to be another thing, nobody has said that a Gateron is the same than an MX; furthermore, this particular combination is not made by Cherry, meaning the spring and stem.

I am sorry, I should not use the word fake, I don't know what word should I use since english is not my native language. To me, the housing, the stem all look the same to Cherry mx, just in a different color. I am not talking particular zealio switches here, I am talking about all the "mx like" switches. I don't hate them, but I don't like them.

I think you are looking for the word clone, although many months ago the forum staff said we were supposed to refer to them as 'mx-compatible' switches  :)) ::)
Right, im looking for the word clone.  I still dont understand why is should be called mx-compatible but not mx-clone
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Fri, 23 October 2015, 19:07:49

Right, im looking for the word clone.  I still dont understand why is should be called mx-compatible but not mx-clone

I would agree, but I think Zealios are different enough that they should be called mx-compatible. I can't wait to see how the 65g stack up to my 62g lubed/stickered vintage ergo clears.


Anyways, I do not think any of MiTO's keysets have looked good. PuLSE, Sci-Fi...yea...no :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 23 October 2015, 19:15:40

Right, im looking for the word clone.  I still dont understand why is should be called mx-compatible but not mx-clone

I would agree, but I think Zealios are different enough that they should be called mx-compatible. I can't wait to see how the 65g stack up to my 62g lubed/stickered vintage ergo clears.


Anyways, I do not think any of MiTO's keysets have looked good. PuLSE, Sci-Fi...yea...no :(

whats the different? color, spring? even if its feel is better than cherry mx, it doesn't change the fact they are clone. i remember when gateron or other mx-clone switches came out, people don't really like how they just copy cherry mx. and now a member in gh sell these switches and everyone see differently.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Fri, 23 October 2015, 19:26:17
whats the different? color, spring? even if its feel is better than cherry mx, it doesn't change the fact they are clone. i remember when gateron or other mx-clone switches came out, people don't really like how they just copy cherry mx. and now a member in gh sell these switches and everyone see differently.

Perhaps this may shed some light.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74836.0
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 October 2015, 19:26:41
The way I see it, sentiments for Zeal's awesome spearheading and fantastic work in the community aside, Zealio switches are fine-tuned Gaterons. Gaterons are MX clones. It is not an enitrely new design, it's simply a tweaked design stemming from community and personal feedback on what the ideal MX / ergo clear switch should feel like.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 23 October 2015, 19:33:11

Right, im looking for the word clone.  I still dont understand why is should be called mx-compatible but not mx-clone

I would agree, but I think Zealios are different enough that they should be called mx-compatible. I can't wait to see how the 65g stack up to my 62g lubed/stickered vintage ergo clears.


Anyways, I do not think any of MiTO's keysets have looked good. PuLSE, Sci-Fi...yea...no :(

whats the different? color, spring? even if its feel is better than cherry mx, it doesn't change the fact they are clone. i remember when gateron or other mx-clone switches came out, people don't really like how they just copy cherry mx. and now a member in gh sell these switches and everyone see differently.

The stem color is intended to differentiate between MX switch designs; but, if you are not aware of this it is futile to try to discuss the value of a new stem, spring combination.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 23 October 2015, 19:36:24
sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

There are a lot of valid reasons not to like a switch, but the way I see it, that is not one of them.

Fake is simply not the correct word here. It is technically an MX Compatible switch. Zeals macro photos clearly show how much more refined the Zealios are as well (this is true of Gaterons in general though). Having so many companies competing with switches is a fantastic thing for us, the consumers. If Cherry won't take care of their molds, falls behind schedule with switches, etc, we should all want a competitor waiting to show what they can do. In my opinion, Gateron stands miles ahead of all of the other competitors (Kailh, Greetech, Outemu, etc) as a superior switch. Sure, longevity isn't proven yet like Cherry (which i don't see being an issue), but the switches are just so much smoother.

If you don't like "fake" stuff, why did you buy Zealios in the first place? If you didn't buy them does that mean you are talking about a switch you've never tried? Really, the logic behind not liking the switch is just off to me, and you are really the only one missing out here. Sure, you may not like them because they are too smooth, the tactile bump is different than what you are used to, you don't like clear housings, etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Fri, 23 October 2015, 20:24:05


And I never see you posting in Making Stuff Together johnathanyu. Easily the best forum on Geekhack which talks about keyboards all the time. I've often thought how great it would be if only that sub-forum and Keyboards existed. Maybe media too. Classifieds and GBs could get nuked. I'm ok with that.

I need to make it a discipline to post there more often. I do a lot of dumb little tweaks, mods, etc. and never take any photos or post about them. I get this idea that I have to hurry through the project rather than take time and enjoy it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 October 2015, 20:27:48


And I never see you posting in Making Stuff Together johnathanyu. Easily the best forum on Geekhack which talks about keyboards all the time. I've often thought how great it would be if only that sub-forum and Keyboards existed. Maybe media too. Classifieds and GBs could get nuked. I'm ok with that.

I need to make it a discipline to post there more often. I do a lot of dumb little tweaks, mods, etc. and never take any photos or post about them. I get this idea that I have to hurry through the project rather than take time and enjoy it.

I'd love to see them as well, man. I definitely remember that flame polishing mod idea you had for smoothing out MX switches as well as the IC for the Skidata style 60% case. I wonder what else you've got going on.  :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dr_habu on Fri, 23 October 2015, 20:37:54
typing in the dark for those who aren't perfect touch typists?


I've heard the dark room argument many times and I think that it's complete balderdash.
There are no perfect touch typists, but that's besides the point. Even in the darkest room you will always have at least one source of light strong enough to let you read the legends off your key caps. That source of light is your computer screen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 23 October 2015, 20:45:21
typing in the dark for those who aren't perfect touch typists?


I've heard the dark room argument many times and I think that it's complete balderdash.
There are no perfect touch typists, but that's besides the point. Even in the darkest room you will always have at least one source of light strong enough to let you read the legends off your key caps. That source of light is your computer screen.

I am using my Model M in front of my computer screen and have no trouble at all, but, I do touch type.  If I look at the legends, I can see them plain and clear.  I think it's the "coolness" of having glowing legends in the dark.  I guess it would be a bit distracting to me too.
Underlit or glowing under the keys themselves?  Glowing bezel?  Uh, I don't think that would be very practical.  I guess that would be a bling-thing.  Not for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Fri, 23 October 2015, 20:58:32
If I could get backlighting on a Model M I would do it in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 23 October 2015, 21:00:35
If I could get backlighting on a Model M I would do it in a heartbeat.

I suppose you could try those LED ribbon things?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Fri, 23 October 2015, 21:11:23
If I could get backlighting on a Model M I would do it in a heartbeat.

I suppose you could try those LED ribbon things?
I've thought about making an underlay out of an electroluminescent panel. But those things just draw way too much power.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 23 October 2015, 21:15:48
If I could get backlighting on a Model M I would do it in a heartbeat.

I suppose you could try those LED ribbon things?
I've thought about making an underlay out of an electroluminescent panel. But those things just draw way too much power.

http://www.adafruit.com/products/1376?gclid=Cj0KEQjwtaexBRCohZOAoOPL88oBEiQAr96eSIVgBiB5au6sM2zC2yp8tLicAiELieQ2GyikDrQk_RAaAsGn8P8HAQ
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 23 October 2015, 23:16:09
The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.
I mean only some of them are, and that bothers me more personally. I think Binge's caps are freaking amazing, and I'm not demeaning his in any way, but there are other artisan makers who are making equally cool things that don't really get the God status that Binge does. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't deserve it, as I said, his work is amazing.

I've always thought Binge was under-appreciated.  The dude basically (literally) wrote the book on casting at home, and so many have learned from him.  Maybe I'm just not seeing all the comments you're referring to though.  ;)

Ok, I'm going to be pedantic only because I feel overlooked and there's history that came before me and inspired me to try and share my methods and how to cast at home.

Ishtob is the first one that I know of that addressed casting at home (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=23722.0).  AFAIK, after that it was Matt3o who did a little something (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35572.0).

After both of those, I did my first guide (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41371.0).  I started to keep track of other experiments (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51973.0) and publicly discussed and shared my methods.  After that, Binge wrote up his guide.

So this is curious, and you may enjoy it.

I had a few bands crash at my house the other night after a show. Artsy types, naturally. They saw my little box of caps (thought it was hilarious people actually made keycaps, and more hilarious people would pay 10-20 bucks for them haha) but were much, much more drawn to the Dolly and Booper's caps than the Bros, Kraps, etc I have lying around as well. I explained that for whatever reason the V2's and Clacks were more sought after and when asked "Why?" I had no answer. (Showed pics of Hipsters stuff, they dug those quite a bit as well). From an artist's perspective, I think their fresh look was something the community could use sometimes instead of just going with the flow of the hype. I agreed with them though, your caps are much more interesting than "the rock-em sock-em robots" haha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 23 October 2015, 23:36:57
I think the x is more interesting than y argument is a weird one.  Taste is subjective and everyone has different things that they like.  I love my little Dolly caps that I make, but I don't think they have any more real artistic merit over others out there outside of copycaps. I always love to hear that people love what I make, but sometimes you need a more subtle accent and other times something more dramatic is perfect.  I really have a lot of respect for Clack, Punks, Bro, Binge, and Booper since they seem to really enjoy the craft and try hard to keep it art and make sure that they put the art first while striving for something high quality.  I know I've come a long way in what I've done, but I've still got a long way to go and I'll keep striving for that as long as I have fun doing so.

The one thing I think most could agree on is that the artisan explosion has gotten a bit absurd, especially since you see people not vested in the community trying to make a buck or first sale caps that are still rough going for $20+ shipping on up.  I love that Bro really has been striving to keep his stuff affordable and that's something I aspire to maintain as well.  And Clack definitely deserves to charge more since so many people are immediately flipping caps for profit.  Why shouldn't he get a portion of that?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 24 October 2015, 00:00:25

typing in the dark for those who aren't perfect touch typists?


I've heard the dark room argument many times and I think that it's complete balderdash.
There are no perfect touch typists, but that's besides the point. Even in the darkest room you will always have at least one source of light strong enough to let you read the legends off your key caps. That source of light is your computer screen.

You don't know my lighting situation.

I won't claim that I need backlighting for viewing legends (I just don't do it, it could be a legitimate reason), but it is indeed hard to read legends in the dark in my room. Takes a fair amount of time for my eyes to adjust to the dark to see the legends.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: calvinhousecat on Sat, 24 October 2015, 00:08:43
I think the x is more interesting than y argument is a weird one.  Taste is subjective and everyone has different things that they like.  I love my little Dolly caps that I make, but I don't think they have any more real artistic merit over others out there outside of copycaps. I always love to hear that people love what I make, but sometimes you need a more subtle accent and other times something more dramatic is perfect.  I really have a lot of respect for Clack, Punks, Bro, Binge, and Booper since they seem to really enjoy the craft and try hard to keep it art and make sure that they put the art first while striving for something high quality.  I know I've come a long way in what I've done, but I've still got a long way to go and I'll keep striving for that as long as I have fun doing so.

The one thing I think most could agree on is that the artisan explosion has gotten a bit absurd, especially since you see people not vested in the community trying to make a buck or first sale caps that are still rough going for $20+ shipping on up.  I love that Bro really has been striving to keep his stuff affordable and that's something I aspire to maintain as well.  And Clack definitely deserves to charge more since so many people are immediately flipping caps for profit.  Why shouldn't he get a portion of that?

I feel like Kreytone fits this description too  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sat, 24 October 2015, 00:24:48
I think the x is more interesting than y argument is a weird one.  Taste is subjective and everyone has different things that they like.  I love my little Dolly caps that I make, but I don't think they have any more real artistic merit over others out there outside of copycaps. I always love to hear that people love what I make, but sometimes you need a more subtle accent and other times something more dramatic is perfect.  I really have a lot of respect for Clack, Punks, Bro, Binge, and Booper since they seem to really enjoy the craft and try hard to keep it art and make sure that they put the art first while striving for something high quality.  I know I've come a long way in what I've done, but I've still got a long way to go and I'll keep striving for that as long as I have fun doing so.

The one thing I think most could agree on is that the artisan explosion has gotten a bit absurd, especially since you see people not vested in the community trying to make a buck or first sale caps that are still rough going for $20+ shipping on up.  I love that Bro really has been striving to keep his stuff affordable and that's something I aspire to maintain as well.  And Clack definitely deserves to charge more since so many people are immediately flipping caps for profit.  Why shouldn't he get a portion of that?

I feel like Kreytone fits this description too  :thumb:

I think the majority of artisan makers are good guys. Most of them have an expressed interest in the community and are just expressing ideas they'd like to see, I'd say. That's how I feel anyway. When I can pull myself away from keyboard projects that are stupidly expensive, I might invest in some casting and molding equipment too, haha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sat, 24 October 2015, 02:53:44
I think Model Ms are a joke and feel like crap, but love Model Fs.

Wow, that's an esoteric viewpoint, Nubb. There's certainly a difference, but I'd put them solidly in the same class at least. How many M's have you tried? They do vary, quite a bit... My '86 1390131 feels a whole lot tighter, lighter and faster than a '90s Lexmark or Unicomp. Maybe you just need to try one closer to the Model F era, in solid original shape or bolt-modded, before you dismiss the whole genre.

Ah, I'm supposed to post an unpopular opinion here. Okay... Considering that Industrial Model M's are gray because they were designed to hide dirt in shop environments, I think it's hilarious and somewhat pathetic that people pay 3 or 4 times as much for them as regular beige M's. It's like paying 3 or 4 times as much for dark carpeting because you won't have to clean it as often. (What? I've ranted about this before...?)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 24 October 2015, 02:55:42
I've tried about a dozen Ms.  The cases never feel completely solid like an F and they completely lack the crispness that Model Fs have.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 24 October 2015, 02:59:10
I've tried about a dozen Ms.  The cases never feel completely solid like an F and they completely lack the crispness that Model Fs have.
I'm exited to try capacitive BS, but the only thing I'm worried about is the sound. Videos are making me think that the very loud pingy-ness might get annoying...

Is there any way to make BS, namely f's a bit quieter?


Edit: how well does the Floss mod dampen the ping?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Sat, 24 October 2015, 08:05:51
I've tried about a dozen Ms.  The cases never feel completely solid like an F and they completely lack the crispness that Model Fs have.
I'm exited to try capacitive BS, but the only thing I'm worried about is the sound. Videos are making me think that the very loud pingy-ness might get annoying...

Is there any way to make BS, namely f's a bit quieter?


Edit: how well does the Floss mod dampen the ping?
I "floss modded" my SSK using rubber bands. There is no ping at all, and the keys have a nice, deep sound. Here's my writeup with audio recordings: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71208.0
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sat, 24 October 2015, 14:00:02
I think the x is more interesting than y argument is a weird one.  Taste is subjective and everyone has different things that they like.  I love my little Dolly caps that I make, but I don't think they have any more real artistic merit over others out there outside of copycaps. I always love to hear that people love what I make, but sometimes you need a more subtle accent and other times something more dramatic is perfect.  I really have a lot of respect for Clack, Punks, Bro, Binge, and Booper since they seem to really enjoy the craft and try hard to keep it art and make sure that they put the art first while striving for something high quality.  I know I've come a long way in what I've done, but I've still got a long way to go and I'll keep striving for that as long as I have fun doing so.

The one thing I think most could agree on is that the artisan explosion has gotten a bit absurd, especially since you see people not vested in the community trying to make a buck or first sale caps that are still rough going for $20+ shipping on up.  I love that Bro really has been striving to keep his stuff affordable and that's something I aspire to maintain as well.  And Clack definitely deserves to charge more since so many people are immediately flipping caps for profit.  Why shouldn't he get a portion of that?

For me, being invested in the community is definitely something that is extremely important to me. I pretty much agree with how you put things in perspective though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dutC4 on Sat, 24 October 2015, 16:23:30
 :blank:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RenegadeParadox on Sun, 25 October 2015, 22:05:36
I really like the aluminum bezel on the Ducky mini.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 25 October 2015, 22:10:06
I really like the aluminum bezel on the Ducky mini.

Isn't it just plastic with a cover?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RenegadeParadox on Sun, 25 October 2015, 23:24:13
I really like the aluminum bezel on the Ducky mini.

Isn't it just plastic with a cover?

It's two aluminum plates sandwiching a plastic center.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whmeltonjr on Sun, 25 October 2015, 23:42:47
I really like the aluminum bezel on the Ducky mini.

I actually do to, especially the Year of the Horse version. I still laugh at this though

(http://i.imgur.com/HddaZaP.png)

I'm not sure how unpopular this opinion is, but I absolutely HATE DSA caps. I was so excited to get a set of Granites only to be incredibly disappointed in them. I typed slower and made more errors.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SploogeFactory on Sun, 25 October 2015, 23:48:05
I really like the aluminum bezel on the Ducky mini.

I actually do to, especially the Year of the Horse version. I still laugh at this though

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HddaZaP.png)


I'm not sure how unpopular this opinion is, but I absolutely HATE DSA caps. I was so excited to get a set of Granites only to be incredibly disappointed in them. I typed slower and made more errors.

Lol, needs more bezel still, maybe Year of the Monkey!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 26 October 2015, 08:56:25
I really like the aluminum bezel on the Ducky mini.

Isn't it just plastic with a cover?

It's two aluminum plates sandwiching a plastic center.

Hum, that is interesting, do you know if it can get as a spare part, somewhere?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RenegadeParadox on Mon, 26 October 2015, 21:54:32
I really like the aluminum bezel on the Ducky mini.

Isn't it just plastic with a cover?

It's two aluminum plates sandwiching a plastic center.

Hum, that is interesting, do you know if it can get as a spare part, somewhere?

I'm not sure I understand your question. If you are asking if you can buy spare aluminum plates I don't believe so as this board's bezel is pretty well integrated into the whole design. I know there have been a few people who debezeled their Ducky Mini which required dremeling off the plastic center core but in doing so have to relocate the USB connector as the standard (Non YoTH) version doesn't have an indentation for the connector.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 26 October 2015, 22:03:12
Please excuse the poor wording, what I meant is if the case is for sale stand alone with no keyboard, the answer should be no, but just wondering.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bjb39 on Mon, 26 October 2015, 22:29:44
I'm not sure how unpopular this opinion is, but I absolutely HATE DSA caps. I was so excited to get a set of Granites only to be incredibly disappointed in them. I typed slower and made more errors.

I love my DSA set, but it does bother me that F and J keys are scooped differently instead of having those little bumps for me to find them with my fingers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 27 October 2015, 00:38:54
I'm not sure how unpopular this opinion is, but I absolutely HATE DSA caps. I was so excited to get a set of Granites only to be incredibly disappointed in them. I typed slower and made more errors.

I love my DSA set, but it does bother me that F and J keys are scooped differently instead of having those little bumps for me to find them with my fingers.

I tried very hard to like my Granite and my Skull Sq. sets with no luck. I just got back to my old friend OG Cherry. I am not sure if it was only the profile, or the texture, or the small tops, or all at once, but I cannot use them for more than some weeks in a row. And those warped sides in the long caps of the Granite was just atrocious. It was a shame.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RenegadeParadox on Tue, 27 October 2015, 09:37:35
Yes, as far as I am aware ducky does not sell parts. I only took a brief look but I'm fairly confident that they only sell the board completely built.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 27 October 2015, 13:37:41
Ahh, Model Ms.  I've got a few but they pretty much are relegated to keyboards for the kids to play with.  BS aren't bad but I fully admit being a huge linear / quiet or silent keyboard fan.  It's probably why I'm more wanting to try Hall Effect keyboards than Beam Springs at this point, though I wouldn't mind being able to try out both.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tararais on Tue, 27 October 2015, 21:03:23
I've tried about a dozen Ms.  The cases never feel completely solid like an F and they completely lack the crispness that Model Fs have.
 
I'll agree with you on that one. A friend of mine let me try out his nearly unused F AT, and it was like a boulder (in terms of stability). On the other hand, Model Ms.. need work to be of acceptable quality. 
 
I'm not sure how unpopular this opinion is, but I absolutely HATE DSA caps. I was so excited to get a set of Granites only to be incredibly disappointed in them. I typed slower and made more errors.
 
Yeah, for sure. I like the solid block look of OEM, Cherry, DCS, but DSA are just tiny. They look like those ML keycaps, it's always strange when I see some people who actually like them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Siegx on Tue, 27 October 2015, 23:04:04
1. Flipped spacebars don't feel ergonomic at all, it also makes the entire keyboard ugly and silly looking.

2. 60% keyboards are aesthetically pleasing, there are no other benefits to having them, they are horrible to use. I need my dedicated function and arrow keys.

3. Full size keyboards are ugly.

4. Winkeyless > Gon.

5. Linear switches defeats the purpose of having a mechanical keyboard.

6. ABS keycaps should be phased out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 27 October 2015, 23:13:34
5. Linear switches defeats the purpose of having a mechanical keyboard.

I've seen this posted before, yet I still fail to understand the logic behind it. Since all rubberdomes are tactile, a mechanical keyboard is the only way to get a linear switch for someone who doesn't want feedback
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Tue, 27 October 2015, 23:19:44
5. Linear switches defeats the purpose of having a mechanical keyboard.

I've seen this posted before, yet I still fail to understand the logic behind it. Since all rubberdomes are tactile, a mechanical keyboard is the only way to get a linear switch for someone who doesn't want feedback

That, and linears can feel very nice if they're not junk and/or they're properly broken in & lubed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 27 October 2015, 23:28:52
1. Flipped spacebars don't feel ergonomic at all, it also makes the entire keyboard ugly and silly looking.

2. 60% keyboards are aesthetically pleasing, there are no other benefits to having them, they are horrible to use. I need my dedicated function and arrow keys.

3. Full size keyboards are ugly.

4. Winkeyless > Gon.

5. Linear switches defeats the purpose of having a mechanical keyboard.

6. ABS keycaps should be phased out.

1. I agree in the sense that I do not have a problem with normal space bars and can't see the point in flipping them. They are less aesthetically pleasing, no doubt.

2. I agree as well. I love how they look aesthetically, but I do get pretty annoyed having to constantly go into function layers that make it impossible to type at the same time. Function for navigation and F-row eats into the alphas and number row for me. 60% are amongst the most aesthetically pleasing of the layouts though.

3. I believe vintage keyboards are very elegant despite being full-size. Modern keyboards are not so much and look kind of junky for the most part.

4. No comment. Matter of preference. With the huge order that WKL is going to have to fulfil thanks to ZipTyze's group buy, there might be just as many delays once the orders are sent.

5. Like Hwood said, rubber domes are tactile, not linear. Linear is exclusively mechanical and I find linear switches to be very pleasant. I like all switch flavors except clicky Cherry switches.

6. ABS feels great against certain switch types, like clicky, and thick ABS is pretty nice too. Nothing wrong with it aside from durability issues and vulnerability to chemical wear.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 28 October 2015, 05:09:56
1. Flipped spacebars don't feel ergonomic at all, it also makes the entire keyboard ugly and silly looking.

2. 60% keyboards are aesthetically pleasing, there are no other benefits to having them, they are horrible to use. I need my dedicated function and arrow keys.

3. Full size keyboards are ugly.

4. Winkeyless > Gon.

5. Linear switches defeats the purpose of having a mechanical keyboard.

6. ABS keycaps should be phased out.

2. Less hand movement is an improvment compared to having a dedicated key way too far on top or side of the board

4. I won't talk cases because I have none from those makers. But having a GON and a winkeyless PCB, GON pcb is just above every other PCB I tried in terms of how easy is it to configure and map.

5. You get feedback on a linear switch from the spring

6. So should be cheap and terrible PBT sets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 28 October 2015, 05:55:00
5. Linear switches defeats the purpose of having a mechanical keyboard.

I've seen this posted before, yet I still fail to understand the logic behind it. Since all rubberdomes are tactile, a mechanical keyboard is the only way to get a linear switch for someone who doesn't want feedback

I feel like I only hear this rhetoric from people that have either never actually tried linears before, or only tried like Gateron clears. Once you've tried a heavier linear, the difference is obvious. Even with lighter ones it should be though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tararais on Wed, 28 October 2015, 06:12:48
1. Flipped spacebars don't feel ergonomic at all, it also makes the entire keyboard ugly and silly looking.

2. 60% keyboards are aesthetically pleasing, there are no other benefits to having them, they are horrible to use. I need my dedicated function and arrow keys.

3. Full size keyboards are ugly.

4. Winkeyless > Gon.

5. Linear switches defeats the purpose of having a mechanical keyboard.

6. ABS keycaps should be phased out.
 
 
1. Yes, agreed. Hideous. 
 
2. Simply untrue from an ergonomics standpoint, having the hands closer together is better for the arms and wrists. Plus, it's very easy to carry around compared to a TKL/fullsize, especially due to being thinner. 
 
3. Not a fan personally, but it's the only way to display a full keyset. Can be good, but mostly agreed. 
 
5. The spring's weight increases, and it's the lightest. There's no hysteresis, so it's best for people who need to double-tap frequently or have a very quick feedback. 
 
6. ABS is just fine, I prefer it to PBT, especially thick PBT, as it muffles the noise from clicky/tactile switches, which, as you mentioned, are the only types you use. 
 
Time for one of mine, I am only really turned off by vintage keyboards because of their size/bezel. We make fun of the Ducky Mini, but virtually every vintage keyboard has a huge bezel. Look at the Model M, its bezel on the sides is at least 5x wider, and the top bezel three times. 
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/ModelM.jpg) (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/images/products/large_950_ducky_mini_05.jpg)   
EDIT: Herp, didn't know what you meant by WKL.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: WolfTickets on Wed, 28 October 2015, 06:41:28

4. Winkeyless > Gon.

 
 
4. I use GON and have used WKL. GON's programmability is incredible and even a pleb like me can do tons of things with it. Also don't know anyone who doesn't use the Windows key that uses Windows. 
 

I'm confused as to whether you are talking about this company http://winkeyless.kr/ (http://winkeyless.kr/) or this type of keyboard.

(http://i.imgur.com/EMr0L.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 28 October 2015, 10:16:34

4. Winkeyless > Gon.

 
 
4. I use GON and have used WKL. GON's programmability is incredible and even a pleb like me can do tons of things with it. Also don't know anyone who doesn't use the Windows key that uses Windows. 
 

I'm confused as to whether you are talking about this company http://winkeyless.kr/ (http://winkeyless.kr/) or this type of keyboard.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/EMr0L.jpg)


He means the manufacturer
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ripwallet on Wed, 28 October 2015, 10:45:33
1. The HHKB layout - i am not a fan
2. My novatouch is my favorite board to type on....with stock abs caps....im a savage
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 28 October 2015, 17:46:40
After using wire key pullers and just trying plastic ring key pullers, I like plastic more. They say that it can scratch keys, but wire pullers can gouge out the underside. Metal on plastic is asking for a bad time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 28 October 2015, 17:54:44
After using wire key pullers and just trying plastic ring key pullers, I like plastic more. They say that it can scratch keys, but wire pullers can gouge out the underside. Metal on plastic is asking for a bad time.

Maybe you're using it wrong?  I haven't had any issues with metal ones.  The only time I prefer the ring puller is on NMB Hi-Tek boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 28 October 2015, 18:53:41
After using wire key pullers and just trying plastic ring key pullers, I like plastic more. They say that it can scratch keys, but wire pullers can gouge out the underside. Metal on plastic is asking for a bad time.

Maybe you're using it wrong?  I haven't had any issues with metal ones.  The only time I prefer the ring puller is on NMB Hi-Tek boards.

I've noticed when pulling GMK caps off a board with relatively new clears that they do dig a tiny bit into the underside of the cap
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 28 October 2015, 19:07:50
After using wire key pullers and just trying plastic ring key pullers, I like plastic more. They say that it can scratch keys, but wire pullers can gouge out the underside. Metal on plastic is asking for a bad time.

Maybe you're using it wrong?  I haven't had any issues with metal ones.  The only time I prefer the ring puller is on NMB Hi-Tek boards.

I've noticed when pulling GMK caps off a board with relatively new clears that they do dig a tiny bit into the underside of the cap

Yep. I should have clarified: It's on the tight fitting caps like MX clears or ancient Alps boards that never had their caps removed. Anything with a bit of resistance can do it. I definitely trust plastic pullers over metal for jobs like that. Also as Chyros mentioned in some thread somewhere, ring keypullers are great for long keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bucake on Wed, 28 October 2015, 19:21:09
Starting this hobby was a mistake.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bjb39 on Thu, 29 October 2015, 10:20:22
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I hate LED backlighting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 29 October 2015, 10:30:35
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I hate LED backlighting.

+1 you are not alone, I consider back-lighting something that goes against the simplicity that is the nature of a keyboard, it serves no purpose but aesthetics.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Thu, 29 October 2015, 11:09:17
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I hate LED backlighting.
I think many people will agree with you on this opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vozella on Thu, 29 October 2015, 12:00:05
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I hate LED backlighting.

I'm not even sure whether I like LED backlighting because I've never tried a backlit keyboard before. I'm not sure if I should include it in my custom keyboard build.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chipotle on Thu, 29 October 2015, 13:52:09
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I hate LED backlighting.
After having two CODE keyboards -- clears at work, and greens at home -- I've decided I don't like backlit mechanical keyboards; the CODE at home has been replaced by a KUL with clears. (Although that may be replaced by either a Matias or a Realforce shortly.) I'm okay with the backlighting on my Macbook's internal keyboard, though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Thu, 29 October 2015, 14:30:59
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I hate LED backlighting.
After having two CODE keyboards -- clears at work, and greens at home -- I've decided I don't like backlit mechanical keyboards; the CODE at home has been replaced by a KUL with clears. (Although that may be replaced by either a Matias or a Realforce shortly.) I'm okay with the backlighting on my Macbook's internal keyboard, though.

I think thats because for macbooks or other membranes/scissors, they make them reasonably unintrusive, while mech manufacturers have to go for flashy bright backlighting for eyes and just easier design.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gabba-gool on Thu, 29 October 2015, 15:17:07
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I hate LED backlighting.
I think many people will agree with you on this opinion.

I want to put LEDs on my POK3R as a project but I typically don't like backlit boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 29 October 2015, 17:37:33
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I hate LED backlighting.

I can go either way. Call me immature, but I love the backlighting on my Duck customs. However, my Infinity has no backlighting and neither do my old vintages, and I love those to death.

I am aspiring to make a backlit Alps custom though, just because I think it would be cool. I'd have it done already if I had the circuitry know-how and programming knowledge to create an LED matrix myself, but I have to resort to already available PCBs for the job.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 29 October 2015, 19:27:55
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I hate LED backlighting.
about a million times yeah

not to sound like an ******* lol, just letting you know that like half of GH doesn't really like them either
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: moshimalloe on Thu, 29 October 2015, 19:33:05
I like the sound of rubber dome keyboards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gabba-gool on Thu, 29 October 2015, 19:38:09
I like the sound of rubber dome keyboards

There's a Lenovo keyboard (rubber dome) I use at work that sounds suspiciously like a Novatouch. But I also can't hear out of one of my ears so my judgement is suspect. TMI?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Thu, 29 October 2015, 20:22:17
I like the sound of rubber dome keyboards

Older rubber dome boards have a nice sound to them. Dell Quietkeys (NOT quiet), Keytronics, some IBM rubber domes, all come to mind. And scissor switches on the Surface Book and Macbooks have a nice crisp sound as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 29 October 2015, 21:13:30
I like the sound of rubber dome keyboards

Older rubber dome boards have a nice sound to them. Dell Quietkeys (NOT quiet), Keytronics, some IBM rubber domes, all come to mind. And scissor switches on the Surface Book and Macbooks have a nice crisp sound as well.

I've always liked the thock of scissor switch rubber domes and still have a fondness for typing on laptop keyboards. :3 Is the Dell Quietkeys truly NOT quiet? That's pretty funny, though I guess, for the time, it was probably quieter than most.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: moshimalloe on Thu, 29 October 2015, 23:13:09
I like the sound of rubber dome keyboards

Older rubber dome boards have a nice sound to them. Dell Quietkeys (NOT quiet), Keytronics, some IBM rubber domes, all come to mind. And scissor switches on the Surface Book and Macbooks have a nice crisp sound as well.
I like listening to the Keychatter video on YouTube of the HHKB Lite 1 and Original HHKB. they sound quite crispy. One day, I shall grab my hands on one of those.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 29 October 2015, 23:37:54
I like the sound of rubber dome keyboards

This opinion is very popular, millions of rubber dome users share it; therefore, it does not belong in this thread.

 :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: moshimalloe on Fri, 30 October 2015, 01:26:37
I like the sound of rubber dome keyboards

This opinion is very popular, millions of rubber dome users share it; therefore, it does not belong in this thread.

 :)) :)) :))
Right, I should go start an Unpopular Mechanical Keyboard Opinions thread. :3
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: di3gopa on Fri, 30 October 2015, 07:11:17
my unpopular not so unpopular opinions:

- Hate Brown Switches
- I like to to type on my blue switches but i would like them more if they were less noisy
- O-rings are a must (not for sound only i like how it feels)
- Palm rest is a must
- Scissors are better for gaming than mech keyboards (less travel distance)
- Scissors found on thinkpad and apple keyboards are the best
- I would love to see more wireless/bluetooth mech keyboards
- I want a trackpoint on my keyboard :'(
- I hate when people say "This mech keyboard is good for traveling, so portable" cmon, just use the keyboard on your laptop...


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Fri, 30 October 2015, 07:34:33
I don't know man, when ever I go out, I like to assert my dominance and prowess over other people with my HHKB, it makes me feel alive, Y'know what I'm mean?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: di3gopa on Fri, 30 October 2015, 07:40:06
I don't know man, when ever I go out, I like to assert my dominance and prowess over other people with my HHKB, it makes me feel alive, Y'know what I'm mean?

Lol yeah i know what you mean, i feel that everytime someone goes into my office and stare at me typing
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: a_ak57 on Fri, 30 October 2015, 08:24:00
typing in the dark for those who aren't perfect touch typists?


I've heard the dark room argument many times and I think that it's complete balderdash.
There are no perfect touch typists, but that's besides the point. Even in the darkest room you will always have at least one source of light strong enough to let you read the legends off your key caps. That source of light is your computer screen.

Not necessarily.  I have my keyboard on one of those pull out trays so I don't get any light from the monitor.  And I don't keep my monitor as bright as other people seem to so it doesn't exactly illuminate the room.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 30 October 2015, 08:25:21
I like the sound of rubber dome keyboards

This opinion is very popular, millions of rubber dome users share it; therefore, it does not belong in this thread.

 :)) :)) :))
Right, I should go start an Unpopular Mechanical Keyboard Opinions thread. :3

Or a popular rubber dome keyboard opinions.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bjb39 on Fri, 30 October 2015, 12:06:28
about a million times yeah

not to sound like an ******* lol, just letting you know that like half of GH doesn't really like them either

Ha. Sorry, I spend a lot of time at /r/mk and everyone over there seems to love them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: localredhead on Fri, 30 October 2015, 12:56:03
I'm pretty sure having keyboard opinions in general are unpopular for anyone that doesn't frequent this site.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: moshimalloe on Fri, 30 October 2015, 13:29:15
I'm pretty sure having keyboard opinions in general are unpopular for anyone that doesn't frequent this site.
This is so meta.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Wyckie on Fri, 30 October 2015, 13:42:54

- Scissors are better for gaming than mech keyboards (less travel distance)


I cringed a bit, which should be the goal of  a 'real' unpopular opinions... Well done.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: localredhead on Fri, 30 October 2015, 14:51:15
I'm pretty sure having keyboard opinions in general are unpopular for anyone that doesn't frequent this site.
This is so meta.

 :thumb:  ::sniffs::  I smell a programmer :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 30 October 2015, 18:24:05
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 30 October 2015, 19:07:38
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

The ****
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Fri, 30 October 2015, 22:38:04
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

The ****

Nobody said you have to post your actual opinions. Just unpopular ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Fri, 30 October 2015, 22:39:10
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

I would rather type on bare switches if it meant not using thin ABS  :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 30 October 2015, 22:39:49
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

The ****

Nobody said you have to post your actual opinions. Just unpopular ones.

That is right; however, I think that we tend to understand that if we have to share an opinion, it should be ours.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 30 October 2015, 22:43:51
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/degrassi/images/6/6a/Will-smith-the-****.gif/revision/latest?cb=20140702082243)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 30 October 2015, 22:47:13
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

The ****

Nobody said you have to post your actual opinions. Just unpopular ones.

You get the idea!  :thumb:

Except...

I really do like typing on bare switches. :-X

I... I mean... Caps are just for pictures, right? NO ONE REALLY TYPES WITH THEM, RIGHT? :-\
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Sat, 31 October 2015, 00:16:34
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

The ****

Nobody said you have to post your actual opinions. Just unpopular ones.

You get the idea!  :thumb:

Except...

I really do like typing on bare switches. :-X

I... I mean... Caps are just for pictures, right? NO ONE REALLY TYPES WITH THEM, RIGHT? :-\

Yeah, try buckling spring!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Weltschmerz on Sat, 31 October 2015, 00:34:05
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

Like typing on small robotic nipples... yessss
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Sat, 31 October 2015, 01:01:11
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

The ****

Nobody said you have to post your actual opinions. Just unpopular ones.

You get the idea!  :thumb:

Except...

I really do like typing on bare switches. :-X

I... I mean... Caps are just for pictures, right? NO ONE REALLY TYPES WITH THEM, RIGHT? :-\

no, seriously no
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Sat, 31 October 2015, 05:31:15
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

I would rather type on bare switches if it meant not using thin ABS  :-X

If you can reach 50wpm with no caps and post a video of it I'll send you a brocap
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sat, 31 October 2015, 06:20:15
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

I would rather type on bare switches if it meant not using thin ABS  :-X

If you can reach 50wpm with no caps and post a video of it I'll send you a brocap

Dunno if serious, but here ya go, boss. :P


The only artisan I have is one from the lovely bcred bottle. So if you are serious, I'd appreciate it! I'm not super big on artisans, but I think it'd be cool to have at least one brocap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SploogeFactory on Sat, 31 October 2015, 06:33:29
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

I would rather type on bare switches if it meant not using thin ABS  :-X

If you can reach 50wpm with no caps and post a video of it I'll send you a brocap

Dunno if serious, but here ya go, boss. :P


The only artisan I have is one from the lovely bcred bottle. So if you are serious, I'd appreciate it! I'm not super big on artisans, but I think it'd be cool to have at least one brocap.

Your word is your bond? Swimmingbird? haha!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Sat, 31 October 2015, 06:57:14
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

I would rather type on bare switches if it meant not using thin ABS  :-X

If you can reach 50wpm with no caps and post a video of it I'll send you a brocap

Dunno if serious, but here ya go, boss. :P


The only artisan I have is one from the lovely bcred bottle. So if you are serious, I'd appreciate it! I'm not super big on artisans, but I think it'd be cool to have at least one brocap.


(http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr78jnDPaE1r2vzxbo1_r1_400.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 01 November 2015, 05:26:39
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

I would rather type on bare switches if it meant not using thin ABS  :-X

If you can reach 50wpm with no caps and post a video of it I'll send you a brocap

Dunno if serious, but here ya go, boss. :P


The only artisan I have is one from the lovely bcred bottle. So if you are serious, I'd appreciate it! I'm not super big on artisans, but I think it'd be cool to have at least one brocap.


Show Image
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr78jnDPaE1r2vzxbo1_r1_400.gif)


Got to at least do it on typeracer :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sun, 01 November 2015, 05:53:23
Unpopular opinion #1:

Typing on bare switches is so much better than typing on actual key caps.  :thumb:

I would rather type on bare switches if it meant not using thin ABS  :-X

If you can reach 50wpm with no caps and post a video of it I'll send you a brocap

Dunno if serious, but here ya go, boss. :P


The only artisan I have is one from the lovely bcred bottle. So if you are serious, I'd appreciate it! I'm not super big on artisans, but I think it'd be cool to have at least one brocap.


Show Image
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr78jnDPaE1r2vzxbo1_r1_400.gif)


Got to at least do it on typeracer :p

If I do this again and you're BSin, I'm never going to forget this. :P My right wrist isn't being very pleasant right now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ripwallet on Sun, 01 November 2015, 06:25:41
Starting this hobby was a mistake.

*For my wallet

Is how i feel lol
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sun, 01 November 2015, 06:34:51
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

If not.

ಠ_ಠ

feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 01 November 2015, 08:20:53
Starting this hobby was a mistake.

*For my wallet

Is how i feel lol

Must of the stuff you get could be re-sell at any time, in the worst case scenario you can get your money back.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sun, 01 November 2015, 09:36:22
Starting this hobby was a mistake.

*For my wallet

Is how i feel lol

Must of the stuff you get could be re-sell at any time, in the worst case scenario you can get your money back.

Yeah, I used to trade Dota items, and those things depreciate in value amazingly fast. It's nice knowing I could resell most of my keyboards in a couple years for at least the price I bought them for, if not more.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 01 November 2015, 09:40:28
Starting this hobby was a mistake.

*For my wallet

Is how i feel lol

Must of the stuff you get could be re-sell at any time, in the worst case scenario you can get your money back.

Yeah, I used to trade Dota items, and those things depreciate in value amazingly fast. It's nice knowing I could resell most of my keyboards in a couple years for at least the price I bought them for, if not more.

Yeah, besides, you had the chance to try them as long as you want; finally, the opportunity to decide if they fit you, or not.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 01 November 2015, 15:29:33
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

If not.

ಠ_ಠ

feature=youtu.be

Bravo!

Send me your details and I will be sending you a Black Cherokey (MX) when I get them
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ramnes on Sun, 01 November 2015, 15:48:30
My today's unpopular opinion: HHKB arrow combos suck.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 01 November 2015, 16:12:56
My today's unpopular opinion: HHKB arrow combos suck.

Compare them with how accessible the Space+IJKL are.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Sun, 01 November 2015, 16:17:29
My today's unpopular opinion: HHKB arrow combos suck.

Gotta agree, diamond style arrows is ok but it's just on a wrong position way too close to the fn key, makes hand movement wrong.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 16:21:37
I like my K70
I think the Ducky Mini actually doesn't look half bad.
(Kinda keyboard related) I think trackballs are absolutely horrible.
I also hate Model M's.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ramnes on Sun, 01 November 2015, 16:22:15
Compare them with how accessible the Space+IJKL are.

Yeah, I really need to try that. Are you actually using it?

Today I'm using my right mods to make arrows on the first layer, which is very good, but then it doesn't work on HHKB-like or winkeyless layouts.

Gotta agree, diamond style arrows is ok but it's just on a wrong position way too close to the fn key, makes hand movement wrong.

I feel like everything is wrong. Diamond style force you to use only 2 fingers for 4 keys, which is dumb. Even HJKL from Vi makes more sens. The Fn key being on the complete right force you to move the hand so much that you loose all the benefit of the 60%, and you still have to use your pinky to make a combo...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 16:23:38
I like my K70
I think the Ducky Mini actually n't look half .
(Kinda keyboard related) I think trackballs are absolutely horrible.
I also hate Model M's.
Also forgot to mention, I don't get why some people pay $500 for Gons.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 01 November 2015, 16:25:50
Compare them with how accessible the Space+IJKL are.

Yeah, I really need to try that. Are you actually using it?

Today I'm using my right mods to make arrows on the first layer, which is very good, but then it doesn't work on HHKB-like or winkeyless layouts.

Gotta agree, diamond style arrows is ok but it's just on a wrong position way too close to the fn key, makes hand movement wrong.

I feel like everything is wrong. Diamond style force you to use only 2 fingers for 4 keys, which is dumb. Even HJKL from Vi makes more sens. The Fn key being on the complete right force you to move the hand so much that you loose all the benefit of the 60%, and you still have to use your pinky to make a combo...

If you are on windows, I encourage you to try TouchCursor, it is a no brainer, so easy to use, and so effective. I installed it in January this year, and it works like charm. I have not had to use my GON's second layer since then. I have mapped even the function keys and now I can use the same layout even in my laptop.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ramnes on Sun, 01 November 2015, 16:31:26
Gentoo here, but I guess I could do that with my FaceU firmware. If not, shouldn't take long to do it on user land.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: crovax3000 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 19:09:44
In general, I don't like backlighting. Every now and then it's nice to see an artisan lit up, but other than that, I just have it off.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RenegadeParadox on Sun, 01 November 2015, 19:52:05
In general, I don't like backlighting. Every now and then it's nice to see an artisan lit up, but other than that, I just have it off.

I couldn't agree more. I think the whole RGB LED thing is just added cost with little to no value added. I have my Ducky Mini that I enjoy but in reality I wouldn't bug me at all of it had no LEDs and was 10$-15$ cheaper. Especially since I want to dress it up with much nicer Keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: crovax3000 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 21:16:15
In general, I don't like backlighting. Every now and then it's nice to see an artisan lit up, but other than that, I just have it off.

I couldn't agree more. I think the whole RGB LED thing is just added cost with little to no value added. I have my Ducky Mini that I enjoy but in reality I wouldn't bug me at all of it had no LEDs and was 10$-15$ cheaper. Especially since I want to dress it up with much nicer Keycaps.

It also makes the keyboard look kind of cheap/gimmicky to have 20 colors flashing across the thing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SploogeFactory on Sun, 01 November 2015, 21:45:50
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

If not.

ಠ_ಠ

feature=youtu.be

Bravo!

Send me your details and I will be sending you a Black Cherokey (MX) when I get them

+1 for the follow through man, nice to see!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sun, 01 November 2015, 21:49:05
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

If not.

ಠ_ಠ

feature=youtu.be

Bravo!

Send me your details and I will be sending you a Black Cherokey (MX) when I get them

+1 for the follow through man, nice to see!

Many thanks from me as well! I thought it was fun to try out for, but I had no idea if it was a serious offer.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 01 November 2015, 22:16:29
I like my K70
I think the Ducky Mini actually n't look half .
(Kinda keyboard related) I think trackballs are absolutely horrible.
I also hate Model M's.
Also forgot to mention, I don't get why some people pay $500 for Gons.

Gotta have one board that's more expensive than the clack you put on it  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 01 November 2015, 22:17:02
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

If not.

ಠ_ಠ

feature=youtu.be

Bravo!

Send me your details and I will be sending you a Black Cherokey (MX) when I get them

+1 for the follow through man, nice to see!

Many thanks from me as well! I thought it was fun to try out for, but I had no idea if it was a serious offer.  :thumb:

No worries :) It's stuff like this that makes the community a fun place to spend time
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: W_hinklebottom on Sun, 01 November 2015, 22:44:07
I think it is ok to let the free market dictate value of artasians on the secondary market.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 22:50:43
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

If not.

ಠ_ಠ

feature=youtu.be

Bravo!

Send me your details and I will be sending you a Black Cherokey (MX) when I get them

+1 for the follow through man,  to see!

Many thanks from me as well! I thought it was fun to try out for, but I had no idea if it was a serious offer.  :thumb:

No worries :) It's stuff like this that makes the community a fun place to spend time
Decided to do it too for fun, (not expecting an artisan, just wanted to see if I could do it for fun)
There should be some sort of weekly typing contest with challenges like this, I like these sorts of this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 22:55:36
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

If not.

ಠ_ಠ

feature=youtu.be

Bravo!

Send me your details and I will be sending you a Black Cherokey (MX) when I get them

+1 for the follow through man,  to see!

Many thanks from me as well! I thought it was fun to try out for, but I had no idea if it was a serious offer.  :thumb:

No worries :) It's stuff like this that makes the community a fun place to spend time
Decided toit too for fun, (not expecting an artisan, just wanted to see if I couldit for fun)
There should be some sort of weekly typing contest with challenges like this, I like these sorts of this.
Just realized, I uploaded that video in slow motion.
I'm dumb.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 23:03:04
Another spam, did another and uploading. 92 WPM.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 23:08:02
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

If not.

ಠ_ಠ

feature=youtu.be

Bravo!

Send me your details and I will be sending you a Black Cherokey (MX) when I get them

+1 for the follow through man,  to see!

Many thanks from me as well! I thought it was fun to try out for, but I had no idea if it was a serious offer.  :thumb:

No worries :) It's stuff like this that makes the community a fun place to spend time
Decided toit too for fun, (not expecting an artisan, just wanted to see if I couldit for fun)
There should be some sort of weekly typing contest with challenges like this, I like these sorts of this.
Just realized, I uploaded that video in slow motion.
I'm dumb.
last time responding to myself, I swear.
92 WPM, no keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 01 November 2015, 23:10:01
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

If not.

ಠ_ಠ

feature=youtu.be

Bravo!

Send me your details and I will be sending you a Black Cherokey (MX) when I get them

+1 for the follow through man,  to see!

Many thanks from me as well! I thought it was fun to try out for, but I had no idea if it was a serious offer.  :thumb:

No worries :) It's stuff like this that makes the community a fun place to spend time
Decided toit too for fun, (not expecting an artisan, just wanted to see if I couldit for fun)
There should be some sort of weekly typing contest with challenges like this, I like these sorts of this.
Just realized, I uploaded that video in slow motion.
I'm dumb.
last time responding to myself, I swear.
92 WPM, no keycaps.

Nice speed :p

I think that topre would be easier though as the stems are bigger than alps or topre
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 23:11:46
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

If not.

ಠ_ಠ

feature=youtu.be

Bravo!

Send me your details and I will be sending you a Black Cherokey (MX) when I get them

+1 for the follow through man,  to see!

Many thanks from me as well! I thought it was fun to try out for, but I had no idea if it was a serious offer.  :thumb:

No worries :) It's stuff like this that makes the community a fun place to spend time
Decided toit too for fun, (not expecting an artisan, just wanted to see if I couldit for fun)
There should be some sort of weekly typing contest with challenges like this, I like these sorts of this.
Just realized, I uploaded that video in slow motion.
I'm dumb.
last time responding to myself, I swear.
92 WPM, no keycaps.

 speed :p

I think that topre would be easier though as the stems are bigger than alps or topre
That was my thought too. Kinda want to try with a cherry board, but the only time I did try it my fingers ended up hurting  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 01 November 2015, 23:12:57

That was my thought too. Kinda want to try with a cherry board, but the only time I did try it my fingers ended up hurting  :p

Yeah I tried doing this when I built my GON - not a fun experience
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clochette on Mon, 02 November 2015, 02:44:43
I'm pretty sure having keyboard opinions in general are unpopular for anyone that doesn't frequent this site.
This is so meta.

 :thumb:  ::sniffs::  I smell a programmer :)

+1  :))

colleagues look at me like i'm crazy when i share with them how much i spend on them keycaps and keyboards

they go like "dude, a $10 keyboard does the same job with the same level of efficiency"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 02 November 2015, 02:49:51
I'm pretty sure having keyboard opinions in general are unpopular for anyone that doesn't frequent this site.
This is so meta.

 :thumb:  ::sniffs::  I smell a programmer :)

+1  :))

colleagues look at me like i'm crazy when i share with them how much i spend on them keycaps and keyboards

they go like "dude, a $10 keyboard does the same job with the same level of efficiency"

In some ways, they definitely are not wrong, but this hobby goes beyond practicality. It's more for personal pleasure and enjoyment, at least for a lot of us anyway. Building a cool keyboard with a nice set of caps, your favorite switches and accessories. It's really nice to add personal flair to something.

A $10 rubberdome keyboard is just... a keyboard. Even if it's mine, it's just a keyboard.

A $400 keyboard that I customized to the teeth with everything I could ever want perched proudly on my desk is MY keyboard.

There's a difference. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 02 November 2015, 02:54:03
Another spam, did another and uploading. 92 WPM.

Firstly, I'm going to watch that slow motion video so I can see some 46 WPM goodness.

Secondy... Damn! I can touch type, but my form isn't the best. Left is more solid than the right. I cheat a lot with the right, which is probably why my wrist hurts atm. I need to perfect that! For me, 100 WPM would only be if I'm focused and WITH caps of course. Haha. Many people are much faster.

Thirdly, awesome job! You discarded the caps and are typing directly on a cloud of boobs, hehehe.  :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blai5000 on Mon, 02 November 2015, 18:12:45
And here I am typing faster on chiclet-style keys on a rubber-dome than on OEM keycaps on a mech, around 60 wpm vs 50 wpm.  I just can't deal with the smaller surface of non-chiclet keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 02 November 2015, 19:07:01
They don't seem to be quite as popular on GH, but personally I really don't think Snackeys look good at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 02 November 2015, 19:45:43
:-X I like the way SnackKeys look.

Oh no! Whose opinion is the unpopular one!?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 02 November 2015, 19:52:45
too much gmk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lepidus on Mon, 02 November 2015, 20:11:40
Ok, lets try  ;D:

Those flat acrylic cases (like GONs or SPRITs) look very bad. I would never build a custom keyboard if I had to use one.

Topre is not mechanical. Hybrid, at most.

Artisans are not really art.

If you bottom out when typing you are doing it wrong. A switch that forces you to(or is very hard not to) bottom out sucks and has no reason to have a complicated mechanism to actuate before bottom.

PBT > ABS. Nobody should pay more than fifty bucks for an ABS set.

These days rubberdomes are more likely to come without factory defects then mechs. The "more durable" story is just a myth if you do not have basic soldering skills.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kazekumiho on Mon, 02 November 2015, 21:00:14
Ok, lets try  ;D:

Those flat acrylic cases (like GONs or SPRITs) look very bad. I would never build a custom keyboard if I had to use one.

Topre is not mechanical. Hybrid, at most.

Artisans are not really art.

If you bottom out when typing you are doing it wrong. A switch that forces you to(or is very hard not to) bottom out sucks and has no reason to have a complicated mechanism to actuate before bottom.

PBT > ABS. Nobody should pay more than fifty bucks for an ABS set.

These days rubberdomes are more likely to come without factory defects then mechs. The "more durable" story is just a myth if you do not have basic soldering skills.

I like those cases. I think they look very modern.  ;D

I also think a lot of artisans are ugly, the only ones I've REALLY liked are Snackeys, and I got some

Never compared PBT and ABS but that opinion seems to be fairly common.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 02 November 2015, 21:58:02
dude, the spam posts since these new rules has gotten to be a bit ridiculous. so many random threads are getting resurrected along with them that were dead for a reason  :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kazekumiho on Mon, 02 November 2015, 22:01:43
dude, the spam posts since these new rules has gotten to be a bit ridiculous. so many random threads are getting resurrected along with them that were dead for a reason  :confused:

I wish this forum has a sort by post date option, or if it does, that I knew how to use it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 02 November 2015, 22:03:05
dude, the spam posts since these new rules has gotten to be a bit ridiculous. so many random threads are getting resurrected along with them that were dead for a reason  :confused:

I wish this forum has a sort by post date option, or if it does, that I knew how to use it.

Spy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=recenttopics)?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kazekumiho on Mon, 02 November 2015, 22:30:04
dude, the spam posts since these new rules has gotten to be a bit ridiculous. so many random threads are getting resurrected along with them that were dead for a reason  :confused:

I wish this forum has a sort by post date option, or if it does, that I knew how to use it.

Spy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=recenttopics)?

DUDE YOU JUST MADE THIS FORUM 20X BETTER FOR ME! :D

EDIT - Wait, no you didn't. I'm looking for a sort by post-date, not by most recent comment. :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Mon, 02 November 2015, 22:30:06
These days rubberdomes are more likely to come without factory defects then mechs. The "more durable" story is just a myth if you do not have basic soldering skills.

^ truth.  Most recent rubberdomes have far more durable pad printing than the average mechanical with fast fading "lasered" legends.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 02 November 2015, 22:40:44
dude, the spam posts since these new rules has gotten to be a bit ridiculous. so many random threads are getting resurrected along with them that were dead for a reason  :confused:

I wish this forum has a sort by post date option, or if it does, that I knew how to use it.

Spy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=recenttopics)?

DUDE YOU JUST MADE THIS FORUM 20X BETTER FOR ME! :D

EDIT - Wait, no you didn't. I'm looking for a sort by post-date, not by most recent comment. :(

;D

:'(

Sorry.  I'm not aware of any way to sort by original post date.  I'm not really sure why you'd want to do that?  Some of the most active threads here were started years ago.  Heck, you never would have seen this very thread if you sorted that way.  I guess it would allow you to keep up to date on the latest tp4 threads though.  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kazekumiho on Mon, 02 November 2015, 22:47:06
dude, the spam posts since these new rules has gotten to be a bit ridiculous. so many random threads are getting resurrected along with them that were dead for a reason  :confused:

I wish this forum has a sort by post date option, or if it does, that I knew how to use it.

Ehh, it's just a format I'm used to. Thanks for trying though!

Spy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=recenttopics)?

DUDE YOU JUST MADE THIS FORUM 20X BETTER FOR ME! :D

EDIT - Wait, no you didn't. I'm looking for a sort by post-date, not by most recent comment. :(

;D

:'(

Sorry.  I'm not aware of any way to sort by original post date.  I'm not really sure why you'd want to do that?  Some of the most active threads here were started years ago.  Heck, you never would have seen this very thread if you sorted that way.  I guess it would allow you to keep up to date on the latest tp4 threads though.  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 02 November 2015, 22:54:12
;D

:'(

Sorry.  I'm not aware of any way to sort by original post date.  I'm not really sure why you'd want to do that?  Some of the most active threads here were started years ago.  Heck, you never would have seen this very thread if you sorted that way.  I guess it would allow you to keep up to date on the latest tp4 threads though.  ;)

Ehh, it's just a format I'm used to. Thanks for trying though!

Well that's a fair reason.  :P  I will say though, I don't think it would make for an enjoyable way to view a forum like this.  I'm assuming you came from reddit?  That's a sensible format to view the content on reddit, but not a traditional forum like this.  Take your time to acclimate yourself with the structure here, and if you do ever have any more questions don't hesitate to PM me for any help.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 02 November 2015, 23:28:13
the detail of the Rustler looks really awesome,but......it looks really really creepy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CannabisWeekly on Mon, 02 November 2015, 23:29:38
the detail of the Rustler looks really awesome,but......it looks really really creepy

I couldn't agree more with this. The eyes creep me out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 02 November 2015, 23:33:05
the detail of the Rustler looks really awesome,but......it looks really really creepy

I couldn't agree more with this. The eyes creep me out.

I sometimes wish someone would make some cute keycaps. maybe a sheep
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 02 November 2015, 23:39:49
the detail of the Rustler looks really awesome,but......it looks really really creepy

I couldn't agree more with this. The eyes creep me out.

I sometimes wish someone would make some cute keycaps. maybe a sheep

Krytone just released that adorabe bird, Boopers monkey is precious, KeyKollectiv's mewocap and General Meow were cute as a button! Theres lots of cute caps  ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 02 November 2015, 23:41:09
the detail of the Rustler looks really awesome,but......it looks really really creepy

I couldn't agree more with this. The eyes creep me out.

I sometimes wish someone would make some cute keycaps. maybe a sheep

Krytone just released that adorabe bird, Boopers monkey is precious, KeyKollectiv's mewocap and General Meow were cute as a button! Theres lots of cute caps  ;D

Plus there is Slo-Fi, Ribbit, and Dolly!  And others.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Mon, 02 November 2015, 23:42:58
the detail of the Rustler looks really awesome,but......it looks really really creepy

I couldn't agree more with this. The eyes creep me out.

I sometimes wish someone would make some cute keycaps. maybe a sheep

Krytone just released that adorabe bird, Boopers monkey is precious, KeyKollectiv's mewocap and General Meow were cute as a button! Theres lots of cute caps  ;D

Plus there is Slo-Fi, Ribbit, and Dolly!  And others.

Can confirm Slo-Fi is adorable
Source: sloths are favorite animal.
yet I still don't have one...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 02 November 2015, 23:43:08
And there's lions too! Right? There are lion artisans, right?

There's nothing wrong with finding lions adorable!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 02 November 2015, 23:49:48
the detail of the Rustler looks really awesome,but......it looks really really creepy

I couldn't agree more with this. The eyes creep me out.

I sometimes wish someone would make some cute keycaps. maybe a sheep

Krytone just released that adorabe bird, Boopers monkey is precious, KeyKollectiv's mewocap and General Meow were cute as a button! Theres lots of cute caps  ;D

Plus there is Slo-Fi, Ribbit, and Dolly!  And others.

Can confirm Slo-Fi is adorable
Source: sloths are favorite animal.
yet I still don't have one...

the bird one and the cat paw one are pretty cute, would be awesome to put on a key tester, but the design seems too complicated for me to put on a keyboard that I use everyday.
I prefer something that has simple design like cc, but cute at the same time...  ^-^
maybe I will make one myself
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trees on Tue, 03 November 2015, 00:31:37
Not sure i get the KMAC hype... I got one... and I'm less impressed then i had thought? My duck boards i had owned seemed better quality and seemed better to type on/use.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 03 November 2015, 01:59:02
My duck boards i had owned seemed better quality and seemed better to type on/use.

How so?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trees on Tue, 03 November 2015, 08:16:32
My duck boards i had owned seemed better quality and seemed better to type on/use.

How so?

When typing on the kmac, it just feels hollow. Where as on the duck's it felt more solid. idk if it is the case, or the plate or what.

Also, not the kmac's fault but i like having more of an angle on my boards and the kmac is quite flat.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 03 November 2015, 08:31:25
My duck boards i had owned seemed better quality and seemed better to type on/use.

How so?

When typing on the kmac, it just feels hollow. Where as on the duck's it felt more solid. idk if it is the case, or the plate or what.

Also, not the kmac's fault but i like having more of an angle on my boards and the kmac is quite flat.
Are you on a KMAC 1 or 2? I could see the 1 lacking a bit of solidity as it has the feet vs. the 2's solid bottom.

Personally I love the low angle and anything above 10 kinda kills me, but a lot of people seem to like the Duck angles (11 on most?)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trees on Tue, 03 November 2015, 08:38:11
My duck boards i had owned seemed better quality and seemed better to type on/use.

How so?

When typing on the kmac, it just feels hollow. Where as on the duck's it felt more solid. idk if it is the case, or the plate or what.

Also, not the kmac's fault but i like having more of an angle on my boards and the kmac is quite flat.
Are you on a KMAC 1 or 2? I could see the 1 lacking a bit of solidity as it has the feet vs. the 2's solid bottom.

Personally I love the low angle and anything above 10 kinda kills me, but a lot of people seem to like the Duck angles (11 on most?)

KMAC LE. It also uses the feet. I do use quite an angle, my work board is a 55g 10th AE realforce with some aftermarket cone feet that props it up to like a 15 degree angle.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 03 November 2015, 21:53:12
I like big ass enter
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 03 November 2015, 21:55:44
I like big ass enter

I like big ass, enter.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Tue, 03 November 2015, 22:27:03
I like big ass enter
And I can not lie.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kazekumiho on Tue, 03 November 2015, 23:04:26
I like big ass enter
And I can not lie.

Sir MX A Lot?!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Tue, 03 November 2015, 23:07:17
I like big ass enter
And I can not lie.

Sir MX A Lot?!
Baby got backspace.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kazekumiho on Tue, 03 November 2015, 23:10:03
I like big ass enter
And I can not lie.

Sir MX A Lot?!
Baby got backspace.

We get sprung!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 04 November 2015, 06:11:48
I used to dislike angled keyboards, thinking they were just terrible for the wrists and what not, until I realized they kind of make the keys more accessible and less of a reach. I float my hands over the keyboard most of the time, so it never bothers me. Resting your palms on the desk with no rest and trying to type on a Duck would be pretty killer for your wrists.

My Fame and AT101 boards have some pretty massive incline with their feet down, and it's so awesome to use them like that imo.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 04 November 2015, 06:55:51
I like big ass enter

I like big ass, enter.

So should we call ISO enter, big top enter ?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 04 November 2015, 07:45:22
I like big ass enter

I like big ass, enter.

So should we call ISO enter, big top enter ?

Big tits enter?

That way we can have an enter for both crowds.

I feel terrible saying that.  :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 04 November 2015, 08:03:50
I like big ass enter

I like big ass, enter.

So should we call ISO enter, big top enter ?

Big tits enter?

That way we can have an enter for both crowds.

I feel terrible saying that.  :-X

I like big ass. Enter.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vmod on Wed, 04 November 2015, 09:26:27
I like big ass enter

I like big ass, enter.

So should we call ISO enter, big top enter ?

Big tits enter?

That way we can have an enter for both crowds.

I feel terrible saying that.  :-X

I like big ass. Enter.

The only problem with that is it makes the backspace short.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 04 November 2015, 13:45:46
KMAC LE. It also uses the feet. I do use quite an angle, my work board is a 55g 10th AE realforce with some aftermarket cone feet that props it up to like a 15 degree angle.
Damn that's steep. I guess if you use a big wrest or float your wrists you would be fine. Since I rest my wrists on the desk I tend towards lower angled boards like the KMAC or TGR. I would like to type on a KMAC II sometime to compare the differences in feel, though I feel like the TGR is close enough that I could compare with that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AllegedlyAlienated on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:07:41
I hate DSA keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:15:53
SA key caps are ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Want on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:19:35
Since we're keeping it simple.

Alps suck.


Edit: yeah okay now you'll only see me, damn being page king.
Maybe I'll put it this way: I really don't like Alps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MeltingTeeth on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:21:57
That isn't an unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:34:26
More people should start with Topre keyboards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:44:03
That isn't an unpopular opinion.

I think it might be - from the people I've seen who have tried Alps they all are in love with them

I think the reason you don't see more of them is because there aren't many people who have actually tried them
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:49:23
I hate DSA keycaps.

SA key caps are ugly.


Not unpopular.


JIS is the best layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:52:37

JIS is the best layout.
I agree 90% but long left shift :(

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:54:46

JIS is the best layout.
I agree 90% but long left shift :(

(http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/TCblj4Nh.jpg)

how about this?
60% tho, I hate it
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:57:06

JIS is the best layout.
I agree 90% but long left shift :(

Show Image
(http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/TCblj4Nh.jpg)


how about this?
60% tho, I hate it

That is filco minila layout, not JIS.
I don't like how the layout is handled on this one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 04 November 2015, 16:59:00
I hate DSA keycaps.

SA key caps are ugly.


Not unpopular.


JIS is the best layout.

Even the SP's GM testimony probes SA is all the rage now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: localredhead on Wed, 04 November 2015, 19:02:37
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 04 November 2015, 19:38:28
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.


I think someone on DT has made something like this, or vice-versa, can't remember.  :-[

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 04 November 2015, 19:51:19
More
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.


I think someone on DT has made something like this, or vice-versa, can't remember.  :-[

It's dead on DT..I made some that are up on Shapeways.  I've been trying to get them made in POM, but it's a high investment for a small niche.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 04 November 2015, 21:38:19
More
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.


I think someone on DT has made something like this, or vice-versa, can't remember.  :-[

It's deaf on DT..I made some that are up on Shapeways.  I've been trying to get them made in POM, but it's a high investment for a small niche.

What sort of investment are we talking about?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 04 November 2015, 22:51:23
More people should start with Topre keyboards


Topre are just glorified rubber dome keyboards, an important element for the glorification is their pricing.


 :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 04 November 2015, 23:10:10
More
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.


I think someone on DT has made something like this, or vice-versa, can't remember.  :-[

It's deaf on DT..I made some that are up on Shapeways.  I've been trying to get them made in POM, but it's a high investment for a small niche.

What sort of investment are we talking about?

If I were to do it at home with less durable molds, ~$700-$1500 or so and a considerable time investment, cheaper if a nearby makerspace does actually get an injection molder.  With real molds, north of $2k.   I've been trying to contact a company I know that produced adapters in the past to find out about their molds, but I can't get in touch with them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 04 November 2015, 23:12:58
More
If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101. :P

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.


I think someone on DT has made something like this, or vice-versa, can't remember.  :-[

It's deaf on DT..I made some that are up on Shapeways.  I've been trying to get them made in POM, but it's a high investment for a small niche.

What sort of investment are we talking about?

If I were to do it at home with less durable molds, ~$700-$1500 or so and a considerable time investment, cheaper if a nearby makerspace does actually get an injection molder.  With real molds, north of $2k.   I've been trying to contact a company I know that produced adapters in the past to find out about their molds, but I can't get in touch with them.

That sounds pretty doable
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hyperhopper on Thu, 05 November 2015, 08:22:44
HHKB has a bad layout because when you need multiple layers, removing a modifier key near your left pinky wastes valuable space.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: childofthehorn on Thu, 05 November 2015, 15:55:31
1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 05 November 2015, 16:07:06
HHKB has a bad layout because when you need multiple layers, removing a modifier key near your left pinky wastes valuable space.

Disagree. The HHKB has remained largely unchanged in terms of layout since 1996, with sales increasing yearly, pretty much solidifying the fact that is is a good layout. It has one of the most thought through layouts of any keyboard imo, though it is also aimed at a specific audience. Any small format keyboard is going to have multiple layers though, no way around that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 05 November 2015, 16:10:34
1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

3. Clears arent linear?
6. Gateron Clears are 35g, not 25 ;)

You also say SA is the best for typing, and then you say all keycaps should come with a medium rough texture? SA are smooth as a baby's butt. ?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 05 November 2015, 16:11:58
I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Thu, 05 November 2015, 16:12:50
I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.

I use my pinky on FN and my index and middle finger on the arrows. It's a lot easier when you get it down to muscle memory.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 05 November 2015, 16:13:43
I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.
I actually find them really nice. I do pinky on fn and index and middle on ';
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bromono on Thu, 05 November 2015, 16:16:15
I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.

I actually find my self trying to use HHKB arrows on my real force =(

I prefer the fn arrows over the dedicated arrow cluster. I hate having to move my right arm so much just to use the dedicated cluster.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 05 November 2015, 16:17:04
I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.

I use my pinky on FN and my index and middle finger on the arrows. It's a lot easier when you get it down to muscle memory.

I actually mapped my arrows like that on one of my 60% I got used to the position quick but it's just uncomfortable. Maybe has to do with size of hands or something.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 05 November 2015, 16:17:14
I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.

I actually find my self trying to use HHKB arrows on my real force =(

I prefer the fn arrows over the dedicated arrow cluster. I hate having to move my right arm so much just to use the dedicated cluster.
Yeah, after using 60% boards for a while, it feels weird using dedicated arrow keys
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Thu, 05 November 2015, 16:27:55
1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.
I disagree with #1.  In fact, I think winkey keyboards are stupid because they interfere with alt and ctrl, which are way more important.
and #2.  I could care less, although almost any 101 key will do fine for the basics.  If the Mac keys don't work, that's why there's the mouse, right?
and 3 & 4.  BS or go home.

I either agree or don't have comments on the rest. ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Thu, 05 November 2015, 17:13:12
1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

Sounds to me like this person likes having a 60% Alps keyboard, with SA Profile that are medium-rough texture.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 05 November 2015, 17:29:29
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.

TIL only accountants use numbers.

BRB, telling boss the news.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Thu, 05 November 2015, 18:36:24
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.

TIL only accountants use numbers.

BRB, telling boss the news.
brb, my 3yr old neice is telling her teacher

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ika on Thu, 05 November 2015, 19:22:43
I like having a low-level RGB backlight and in-switch LEDs :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Thu, 05 November 2015, 20:58:38
This is a rather interesting set of opinions

1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

1. Because in the early days people didn't think this way :P its also not terribly necessary either.
2. Define support, almost all boards would *work* with UNIX systems
5. Wha? That's the design? Keys are supposed to *not* move?  :confused:
6. Gateron Clears are 35g, I could see them used for gaming although I much prefer Gateron reds
7. Again, accountant? Some people just like numpads...and I find TKL to be best universally (programming, casual use, space saving, etc), though 60-65% makes the ideal travel board, not too much bigger than 40%
8. Go easy dawg, I still learn things about my keyboards every day :P
10, Wha? OEM and Cherry work best for me...
9. Try 75% or 65%.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Thu, 05 November 2015, 22:55:25
I like big ass enter
And I can not lie.

Sir MX A Lot?!
Baby got backspace.

We get sprung!
And then buckle!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sek1ne on Fri, 06 November 2015, 00:42:40
I read through some of these and while it might not be too unpopular I don't like 60% boards very much or alp switches. I have an older keyboard with alp oranges and I'm not that sure how I feel about them anymore.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Fri, 06 November 2015, 07:41:20
HHKB has a bad layout because when you need multiple layers, removing a modifier key near your left pinky wastes valuable space.

Disagree. The HHKB has remained largely unchanged in terms of layout since 1996, with sales increasing yearly, pretty much solidifying the fact that is is a good layout. It has one of the most thought through layouts of any keyboard imo, though it is also aimed at a specific audience. Any small format keyboard is going to have multiple layers though, no way around that.

The ANSI 104 layout has remained largely unchanged since 1995, with sales increasing yearly, pretty much solidifying the fact that it is a good layout. ;P (And before that, 101 hasn't changed since the Model M in what, 84?) The rest is debatable except for layers, but simply citing numbers isn't very useful lol. More people own ergodoxes now, but that doesn't make the thumb cluster not terrible or the staggering not insufficient. It just means more people are aware of it and decided to try it.

1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

1. Well this I agree on.
2. This too.
3. Yep
4. Model F or GTFO.
5. It's not a linear switch.
6. 35g, but otherwise yes, they're impossible to type on.
7. False. I use the numberpad several times a day for typing numbers and using alt codes, and my last job was at a call center where I used it at least once per call to put in order numbers, phone numbers, credit card numbers... This also is not an unpopular opinion.
8. Oh most people can memorize it easily enough, the simple fact of the matter is that many people don't want to. I game and my current main MMO uses F1-F12 frequently so a 60% is one of  the most impractical boards for me.
9. Of the three most common, I'll agree in general usage, but see gaming above.
10. Subjective
11. Agree, and the 'quality' varies. (Recipient of one of the many badly made/badly scratched TA sets here.)
12. Subjective.


7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.

TIL only accountants use numbers.

BRB, telling boss the news.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 06 November 2015, 07:46:15
The Catholic church, the army and the mafia have remained unchanged for centuries, does that mean they are the best organizations?


The risk for this sort of logic to be wrong is very high; but, the discussions focus on the merits of actual features of keyboards are generally of more value.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 06 November 2015, 07:55:08


SA are smooth as a baby's butt. ?

There are non-smooth options when it comes to SA finishes. :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nimbius on Fri, 06 November 2015, 07:59:43
i literally created an account just so i can rage in this thread.  thank you geekhack.

1.  hate to say it but I agree entirely.  AwesomeWM was designed to exploit this microsoft feature like a ringling brothers circus animal. it now serves its master.

2.  its more common than you think, but less debilitating than it sounds.  WASD Code for example has a nerve wracking habit of strobing/flickering for no real reason in linux.  its a gentleman in windows.

5.  Yes.  there is a reason Cherry clear is "rare" and that reason is because the design is an abortion and the tactile sensation is nothing short of the buttons on the radio of a lancaster bomber.  Youre constantly second guessing whether that key you just pressed will ever come back up.  The design of this key makes 65Cn feel like 165Cn every. single. click.  do you bottom out? the keys make an intolerable racket and if youre like me, every time you bottom out theres a thump that haunts the rest of your sentence. Someone at cherry should have been fired for this design, their home reposessed, and their children left to starve in the streets. 

6.  reds are disturbingly light.  switching from my model M to a varmillo with cherry reds is the equivalent of trying to shift gears from rough bondage to heavy petting.  youll get there but not with out a few pretty embarassing screw-ups.

7.  Get out.  60% keyboards were designed for server room pullout KVM's to torment sysadmins at 3:30 AM while trying to scoll with that horrible track ball the size of a gumdrop.  eventually macro programmables from the honeywell era made their shrunken head debut in the mainstream with 3-5 and even neckbeard fellating infinite overlay.  the average 60% keyboard is a training tool for stress disorders chronic wrist pain used to glean torture information from enemy combatants and root passwords from the developers test machines.  Its the eqivalent of stepping out of your 75% sedan or 104 key cadillac and into a compact with no air conditioning a broken right mirror and a plastic seat arm.  Ban this sick filth.

8.  people who cant learn a 60% layout arent found on the autism spectrum and dont need a lunch box of prescription drugs just to get out the door.  There is no honor in 60%, you havent conquered anything except overcoming an arbitrary shortcoming in this foul year of our lord 2015 that a vendor placed upon you in order to sell a product that by all measure is fundamentally inferior to a 75% or greater keyboard.  60% users will never know the luxury of entering a phone number or credit card by slipping into the simmering hot tub of a 10key section, if only for a fleeting moment. 

12.  truer words have never been spoken.  Varmilo hooked me on this. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nimbius on Fri, 06 November 2015, 08:00:56
Actually while we're at it:

1.  scissor switch, chiclet keyboards should be grounds for divorce, cause for intervention, and be considered a modern example of nihilist apathy and furious rage towards all mankind.  This swich exists as a litmus test for bare-minimum personal computing skillset.

2.  Dell keyboards serve only 1 purpose:  to log onto the internet and buy a real keyboard.  They are the plastic sporks of personal computing.

3.  There comes a point when a ducky or other sufficiently fancy disco keyboard is indistinguishable from a pride parade.  every key is wonderfully crafted, but altogether they can make old people really uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 06 November 2015, 08:54:13
Actually while we're at it:

1.  scissor switch, chiclet keyboards should be grounds for divorce, cause for intervention, and be considered a modern example of nihilist apathy and furious rage towards all mankind.  This swich exists as a litmus test for bare-minimum personal computing skillset.

2.  Dell keyboards serve only 1 purpose:  to log onto the internet and buy a real keyboard.  They are the plastic sporks of personal computing.

3.  There comes a point when a ducky or other sufficiently fancy disco keyboard is indistinguishable from a pride parade.  every key is wonderfully crafted, but altogether they can make old people really uncomfortable.

These are all super popular, btw.  But welcome!  (Or at least welcome to the account if you've been lurking :D )
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Fri, 06 November 2015, 09:26:32
I think everyone in this thread should tell us how they really feel, lol.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: childofthehorn on Fri, 06 November 2015, 09:47:23
This was unpopular keyboard opinions right?  :cool:

The thread needed a little shaking.

My husband has my v60 Matias with Olivette keycaps.

If only every keycap could have the texture of the M-122 keycaps (which are rougher than the standard model M.

FYI I am a Java/C/C++ programmer by trade so having fully programmable keyboards with function layers that have key bindings for quick uses in the IDE is really needed. Plus, not having to move my hand much for the mouse (when I have to use it) improved my overall efficiency. I actually timed how long it takes me to get to things like the dedicated arrow keys and such. The time for getting to the mouse, arrow keys and various function keys is about 40-60% more efficient in terms of time. Basically any profile with good rounding of the profile like what SA or cherry has will be good for typing since you hold your hands in a more optimal position if the keyboard is tilted especially. I like insane amounts of tilt so that its more like my fingers are pushing forward more than down.

I still dunno how anyone uses totally flat keyboards.

You can Rough up your SA profile ABS keycaps with just some Muslin soaked in ABS. If you mess up, you can clear it out using Novus2 plastic polish (A secret of pinball and arcade restoration).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Fri, 06 November 2015, 10:15:31
You can Rough up your SA profile ABS keycaps with just some Muslin soaked in ABS. If you mess up, you can clear it out using Novus2 plastic polish (A secret of pinball and arcade restoration).

Very cool.  Thank you for sharing!

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 06 November 2015, 12:47:40
Actually while we're at it:

1.  scissor switch, chiclet keyboards should be grounds for divorce, cause for intervention, and be considered a modern example of nihilist apathy and furious rage towards all mankind.  This swich exists as a litmus test for bare-minimum personal computing skillset.

2.  Dell keyboards serve only 1 purpose:  to log onto the internet and buy a real keyboard.  They are the plastic sporks of personal computing.

3.  There comes a point when a ducky or other sufficiently fancy disco keyboard is indistinguishable from a pride parade.  every key is wonderfully crafted, but altogether they can make old people really uncomfortable.

I'm surely no chicklet fan, but the new Mac chicklets were actually not awful. I'm still a guy that takes his keyboards out with him (out at a coffee house now with my HHKB) but using the keyboard on a new Mac surely wouldnt be the end of the world, or my marriage haha.



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 06 November 2015, 12:51:01


SA are smooth as a baby's butt. ?

There are non-smooth options when it comes to SA finishes. :D

Wasn't Commando the matte set? I remember having one that was matte and not the "standard" semi-matte and hated it, just cant remember what set it was  :confused:

Those HiPro keys, now that is a relatively refined "rough" texture, I really enjoy those. Still wanna know how yours is treating you!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zod000 on Fri, 06 November 2015, 14:40:27
Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets). 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 06 November 2015, 14:45:55
Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets).

SA is good. Will agree DSA and DCS aren't great by any means.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 06 November 2015, 14:48:28
Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets).

Try out some OG then mate. Or GMK if none is available.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dutC4 on Fri, 06 November 2015, 16:12:06
 :blank:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: childofthehorn on Fri, 06 November 2015, 17:02:08
You can Rough up your SA profile ABS keycaps with just some Muslin soaked in Acetone . If you mess up, you can clear it out using Novus2 plastic polish (A secret of pinball and arcade restoration).

Very cool.  Thank you for sharing!

Grrr ^ Corrected.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 06 November 2015, 17:56:04
Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets).

SA is good. Will agree DSA and DCS aren't great by any means.

G20's are my favorite caps.  I wish they could put some legends on them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 06 November 2015, 17:57:08
Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets). 

in what way? everybody ****s on SP but never says why it's ****. i feel like a ton of you just ride cherry **** because it's a popular thing to do.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: inanis on Fri, 06 November 2015, 18:09:25
Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets). 

in what way? everybody ****s on SP but never says why it's ****. i feel like a ton of you just ride cherry **** because it's a popular thing to do.
I have no issues with DSA or SA by SP. DCS though, I dunno why anyone would go that route when they could get cherry profile instead, which is much more available these days. Not to mention more affordable with several new manufacturers in the picture. SP DCS is thin as hell. It just doesn't hold up against other, similarly profiled, yet thicker options.

On topic: I love to type on worn, shiny caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 06 November 2015, 18:38:08
Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets). 

in what way? everybody ****s on SP but never says why it's ****. i feel like a ton of you just ride cherry **** because it's a popular thing to do.
I have no issues with DSA or SA by SP. DCS though, I dunno why anyone would go that route when they could get cherry profile instead, which is much more available these days. Not to mention more affordable with several new manufacturers in the picture. SP DCS is thin as hell. It just doesn't hold up against other, similarly profiled, yet thicker options.

On topic: I love to type on worn, shiny caps.


This is not by any means unpopular, just be welcome to the club.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 06 November 2015, 18:40:40
Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets). 

in what way? everybody ****s on SP but never says why it's ****. i feel like a ton of you just ride cherry **** because it's a popular thing to do.
I have no issues with DSA or SA by SP. DCS though, I dunno why anyone would go that route when they could get cherry profile instead, which is much more available these days. Not to mention more affordable with several new manufacturers in the picture. SP DCS is thin as hell. It just doesn't hold up against other, similarly profiled, yet thicker options.

On topic: I love to type on worn, shiny caps.

it all feels the same to me. i dont get it. thick, thin, cherry, oem. pbt/abs.. all feels the same.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 06 November 2015, 18:57:07
Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets). 

in what way? everybody ****s on SP but never says why it's ****. i feel like a ton of you just ride cherry **** because it's a popular thing to do.
I have no issues with DSA or SA by SP. DCS though, I dunno why anyone would go that route when they could get cherry profile instead, which is much more available these days. Not to mention more affordable with several new manufacturers in the picture. SP DCS is thin as hell. It just doesn't hold up against other, similarly profiled, yet thicker options.

On topic: I love to type on worn, shiny caps.

it all feels the same to me. i dont get it. thick, thin, cherry, oem. pbt/abs.. all feels the same.

Take your gloves off.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: inanis on Fri, 06 November 2015, 19:11:05
it all feels the same to me. i dont get it. thick, thin, cherry, oem. pbt/abs.. all feels the same.

It's all about the thickness....

Seriously tho, I used to feel the same way, but I love my GMK caps. They are super smooth and the thickness provides a nice sound when I type. I have cherry profile PBT too, but I like the ABS better. There is a large part of this that is psychological for sure. But my fingers love that smooth ABS.

I feel the same as you about only about  spring weights. Everyone is all like "I just swapped my 65g springs for 67g and WOW, what a difference!". And I'm over here like, I can't tell a damn bit of difference, wtf are they on about?. When there is more varience, sure, but not at such small intervals.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 06 November 2015, 19:20:54
it all feels the same to me. i dont get it. thick, thin, cherry, oem. pbt/abs.. all feels the same.

It's all about the thickness....

Seriously tho, I used to feel the same way, but I love my GMK caps. They are super smooth and the thickness provides a nice sound when I type. I have cherry profile PBT too, but I like the ABS better. There is a large part of this that is psychological for sure. But my fingers love that smooth ABS.

I feel the same as you about only about  spring weights. Everyone is all like "I just swapped my 65g springs for 67g and WOW, what a difference!". And I'm over here like, I can't tell a damn bit of difference, wtf are they on about?. When there is more varience, sure, but not at such small intervals.

like legit, the only time i've notice a difference was with this pbt spacebar on my hhkb. the sound was just wonderful. everything else.. meh. even this bsp pbt caps feel no different than cherry GMK ****. maybe i just dont have sensitive fingers or some ****.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 06 November 2015, 19:54:17

I feel the same as you about only about  spring weights. Everyone is all like "I just swapped my 65g springs for 67g and WOW, what a difference!". And I'm over here like, I can't tell a damn bit of difference, wtf are they on about?. When there is more varience, sure, but not at such small intervals.

The spring thing seriously gets me.

I so want to double blind test so many of these things. Like switch stickers, certain lube scenarios...

Quick someone get me a grant to study this!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 06 November 2015, 19:58:42
If you finally have found the best typing experience, who cares if it was due to a placebo effect.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Fri, 06 November 2015, 20:05:54
Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets). 

in what way? everybody ****s on SP but never says why it's ****. i feel like a ton of you just ride cherry **** because it's a popular thing to do.
I have no issues with DSA or SA by SP. DCS though, I dunno why anyone would go that route when they could get cherry profile instead, which is much more available these days. Not to mention more affordable with several new manufacturers in the picture. SP DCS is thin as hell. It just doesn't hold up against other, similarly profiled, yet thicker options.

On topic: I love to type on worn, shiny caps.

it all feels the same to me. i dont get it. thick, thin, cherry, oem. pbt/abs.. all feels the same.

Take your gloves off.
Is demik really Strong Bad?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 06 November 2015, 20:35:14

If you finally have found the best typing experience, who cares if it was due to a placebo effect.

Cause when people find their "best" typing experience they then shout it from the rooftops and get the less experienced to buy snake oil, and then we're just the  equivalent of the audiophile crowd but $300 cables when $5'll do.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 06 November 2015, 20:46:36

If you finally have found the best typing experience, who cares if it was due to a placebo effect.

Cause when people find their "best" typing experience they then shout it from the rooftops and get the less experienced to buy snake oil, and then we're just the  equivalent of the audiophile crowd but $300 cables when $5'll do.


Only a deeply naive individual believes someone else's best experience may be her own.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Fri, 06 November 2015, 21:11:34

If you finally have found the best typing experience, who cares if it was due to a placebo effect.

Cause when people find their "best" typing experience they then shout it from the rooftops and get the less experienced to buy snake oil, and then we're just the  equivalent of the audiophile crowd but $300 cables when $5'll do.

Heck you can spend less on 14-gauge lamp cord.  Get a spool, done.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Fri, 06 November 2015, 23:00:15

If you finally have found the best typing experience, who cares if it was due to a placebo effect.

Cause when people find their "best" typing experience they then shout it from the rooftops and get the less experienced to buy snake oil, and then we're just the  equivalent of the audiophile crowd but $300 cables when $5'll do.


Only a deeply naive individual believes someone else's best experience may be her own.
Well said sir.  If only more people in the world had the ability to comprehend such wisdom...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: priyadi on Fri, 06 November 2015, 23:05:30
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 06 November 2015, 23:15:45
  • Artisan keycaps are ugly. (Even more if you consider their insanely high resale prices)
  • I really despise keyboards with steep inclination, and by extension, just about 90% of Korean customs keyboards. (Negative tilt is the best ergonomic position for keyboards, who make them the opposite).
  • All ABS keycaps must be in glossy finish. Why bother doing it in matte, when keycaps will get glossier and glossier over time? (This is why OG DS Cherry rocks)
  • I hate HHKB's second layer. Arrows must be in home row. (I hate the evangelists on Topre and HHKB)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: retrochick on Sat, 07 November 2015, 02:57:22
60% keyboards don't need metal plates, or plates of any sort.
LEDs are gimmicky
Cherry over CoStar stabs
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nephiel on Sat, 07 November 2015, 05:05:34
Dedicated numpads, like arrow keys, are just a waste of space when your board has programmable layers, since you can make them appear on the home row at any time right where your fingers already are.

Graffiti™ is the best text input method ever for touchscreen devices. Seriously, onscreen keyboards are so dumb and unsuitable for the task I think their designers are trolling on purpose. "Let's take a computer board, shrink it down to unmanageable size and put it on a flat surface where you can't tell where keys are by touch alone". Good grief.

60% keyboards don't need metal plates, or plates of any sort.
LEDs are gimmicky
Cherry over CoStar stabs
You need a plate to hold the switches if you don't use a PCB. I agree about the LEDs and stabs though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ramnes on Sat, 07 November 2015, 06:09:10
  • Artisan keycaps are ugly.
Yeah. I find most of them objectively ugly, but I still want them, don't know really why, maybe this is for their rarity or just to complete the keyboard collection. I think I'm a huge victim of the mechanical keyboard consumer society. :D

  • I really despise keyboards with steep inclination, and by extension, just about 90% of Korean customs keyboards.
Yeah this is dumb, but it doesn't make me not use them. Korean keyboards have so much more than any other keyboard, it's just sad they all are so inclined.

  • All ABS keycaps must be in glossy finish. Why bother doing it in matte, when keycaps will get glossier and glossier over time?

(http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2009/0902/360_einstein_genius_0212.jpg)

  • I hate HHKB's second layer. Arrows must be in home row.
Yep. Already said this on that same topic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sat, 07 November 2015, 07:53:08
Yeah. I find most of them objectively ugly, but I still want them, don't know really why, maybe this is for their rarity or just to complete the keyboard collection. I think I'm a huge victim of the mechanical keyboard consumer society. :D

This is the aspect I hate most about the effect this community has on me. I'm glad to really not have any care for artisans, but the feeling can strike me hard if I need something to finish a build or any projects.

If I hadn't gone on any side projects or bothered exploring Alps land, I'd have been able to buy about 4-5 different Korean customs by now. I've ended up sticking to just buying further versions of the Octagon and Lightpad and ignoring all other GBs in terms of purchase. I have a semi-practical view, but I still get bit with wanting to buy too many things at once sometimes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 07 November 2015, 08:33:05
60% keyboards don't need metal plates, or plates of any sort.
LEDs are gimmicky
Cherry over CoStar stabs

These are all really popular too (in increasing order). I think three or four people have mentioned LEDs in the last two pages of this thread and lots of people agreed.

And I think in the three years I've been in this hobby I've heard maybe two or three people prefer costar over cherry stabs - if that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Sat, 07 November 2015, 09:03:44
Graffiti™ is the best text input method ever for touchscreen devices.
I completely agree!  I was bummed when my palm treo wasn't just one touch screen that could allow the use of Graffiti.  When you got it down, you could easily type almost as fast as you could write, if not a little faster.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Sat, 07 November 2015, 09:29:30


If you finally have found the best typing experience, who cares if it was due to a placebo effect.

Cause when people find their "best" typing experience they then shout it from the rooftops and get the less experienced to buy snake oil, and then we're just the  equivalent of the audiophile crowd but $300 cables when $5'll do.


Only a deeply naive individual believes someone else's best experience may be her own.

And only a very naive individual thinks that they are completely unswayed by others opinions.

In the absence of fact all you're left with is opinion. And without infinite funds and access, people rely on others for reviews.

So yeah, some controlled tests would bring some of these opinions that are highly dependent upon biases into sharper relief.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RominRonin on Sat, 07 November 2015, 09:59:44
The (mis)alignment of nearly every keyboard ever is old fashioned, and any company that doesn't reconsider the qwerty layout as the default is dumb, stupid and shouldn't be allowed to earn money from keyboard sales.


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Sat, 07 November 2015, 10:08:23
The (mis)alignment of nearly every keyboard ever is old fashioned, and any company that doesn't reconsider the qwerty layout as the default is dumb, stupid and shouldn't be allowed to earn money from keyboard sales.

What does that mean?  Are you saying that all keyboards are old fashioned, and all keyboard companies should reconsider having a QWERTY layout?  Maybe you can elaborate on what layout would work best for everyone out there.  I am sure you have something in mind that would make you more money from keyboard sales, right?

Posts: 0

Makes sense.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: retrochick on Sat, 07 November 2015, 12:21:34
60% keyboards don't need metal plates, or plates of any sort.
LEDs are gimmicky
Cherry over CoStar stabs

These are all really popular too (in increasing order). I think three or four people have mentioned LEDs in the last two pages of this thread and lots of people agreed.

And I think in the three years I've been in this hobby I've heard maybe two or three people prefer costar over cherry stabs - if that.

What if I thought my (in reality popular) keyboard opinions where unpopular. And so that makes my opinions unpopular?!  :-X :-\
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 07 November 2015, 14:16:30
Keyboards are tools; therefore, anything that turns them otherwise and does not add to their usefulness, is a waste of money and time:


- Artisian's.
- LEDs.
.
.
.
- [size=78%]fill your own here.[/size]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sat, 07 November 2015, 14:34:15
A popular unpopular opinion is that LEDs are trivial and needless.

An unpopular popular opinion is that LEDs add an amazing bedazzling aspect to a keyboard, and that we should pray to the RGB gods to grace us with their glorious rainbow light.

That said, I don't mind it either way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 07 November 2015, 14:46:05
A popular unpopular opinion is that LEDs are trivial and needless.

An unpopular popular opinion is that LEDs add an amazing bedazzling aspect to a keyboard, and that we should pray to the RGB gods to grace us with their glorious rainbow light.

That said, I don't mind it either way.


LEDs are useful as lock indicators, if you want more lights get x-mas tree.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Sat, 07 November 2015, 16:00:22
A popular unpopular opinion is that LEDs are trivial and needless.

An unpopular popular opinion is that LEDs add an amazing bedazzling aspect to a keyboard, and that we should pray to the RGB gods to grace us with their glorious rainbow light.

That said, I don't mind it either way.


LEDs are useful as lock indicators, if you want more lights get x-mas tree.
lol!

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nai_Calus on Sat, 07 November 2015, 23:15:17
A popular unpopular opinion is that LEDs are trivial and needless.

An unpopular popular opinion is that LEDs add an amazing bedazzling aspect to a keyboard, and that we should pray to the RGB gods to grace us with their glorious rainbow light.

That said, I don't mind it either way.

LEDs are useful as lock indicators, if you want more lights get x-mas tree.

I have cats and can't have an xmas tree, so how about I get a keyboard instead.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 07 November 2015, 23:24:01
A popular unpopular opinion is that LEDs are trivial and needless.

An unpopular popular opinion is that LEDs add an amazing bedazzling aspect to a keyboard, and that we should pray to the RGB gods to grace us with their glorious rainbow light.

That said, I don't mind it either way.

LEDs are useful as lock indicators, if you want more lights get x-mas tree.

I have cats and can't have an xmas tree, so how about I get a keyboard instead.


Get rid of them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Sun, 08 November 2015, 02:04:52
A popular unpopular opinion is that LEDs are trivial and needless.

An unpopular popular opinion is that LEDs add an amazing bedazzling aspect to a keyboard, and that we should pray to the RGB gods to grace us with their glorious rainbow light.

That said, I don't mind it either way.

LEDs are useful as lock indicators, if you want more lights get x-mas tree.

I have cats and can't have an xmas tree, so how about I get a keyboard instead.


Get rid of them.
http://bridesthrowingcats.com/
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 08 November 2015, 06:48:52
A popular unpopular opinion is that LEDs are trivial and needless.

An unpopular popular opinion is that LEDs add an amazing bedazzling aspect to a keyboard, and that we should pray to the RGB gods to grace us with their glorious rainbow light.

That said, I don't mind it either way.

LEDs are useful as lock indicators, if you want more lights get x-mas tree.

I have cats and can't have an xmas tree, so how about I get a keyboard instead.


Get rid of them.
http://bridesthrowingcats.com/


This is one the weirdest things I have seen recently.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Sun, 08 November 2015, 06:54:45


And only a very naive individual thinks that they are completely unswayed by others opinions.

This reminds me of a quote from A. A. Milne:

Quote
The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ika on Sun, 08 November 2015, 11:20:40
I got a 55g Realforce today and I prefer 45g. They might do better in an HHKB but everyone treats 55g Topre like the holy ****in grail.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dutC4 on Sun, 08 November 2015, 11:32:32
 :blank:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Sun, 08 November 2015, 11:36:46
I got a 55g Realforce today and I prefer 45g. They might do better in an HHKB but everyone treats 55g Topre like the holy ****in grail.
mx clears and 55g topre

so much hype for these two things you feel stupid if you don't try them out then you feel stupid when you do :)

Clears are great when spring swapped and lubbed, stock clears is indeed meh.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Sun, 08 November 2015, 11:53:03
Ergo Clears, 55g Topre, and Salmon Alps = best switches NA.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Sun, 08 November 2015, 12:07:15
A popular unpopular opinion is that LEDs are trivial and needless.

An unpopular popular opinion is that LEDs add an amazing bedazzling aspect to a keyboard, and that we should pray to the RGB gods to grace us with their glorious rainbow light.

That said, I don't mind it either way.

LEDs are useful as lock indicators, if you want more lights get x-mas tree.

I have cats and can't have an xmas tree, so how about I get a keyboard instead.


Get rid of them.
http://bridesthrowingcats.com/


This is one the weirdest things I have seen recently.
This is what happened when I  searched for 'throwing cats', lol.  Pretty hilarious once you realize they're all fake.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sun, 08 November 2015, 12:21:12
It's okay to trash rubberdomes for being crappy as long as I can trash all mechanicals for being crappy because all I've tried is a TVS-e Gold and Ducky XM.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 08 November 2015, 15:43:47
It's okay to trash rubberdomes for being crappy as long as I can trash all mechanicals for being crappy because all I've tried is a TVS-e Gold and Ducky XM.

Trash talking something for it's poor quality is different than trash talking something because you have not tried it, it's two completely different animals.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: temporal on Sun, 08 November 2015, 15:45:59
I really liked the addon that got banned from the recent MD Otaku set  :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 08 November 2015, 17:42:17
A popular unpopular opinion is that LEDs are trivial and needless.

An unpopular popular opinion is that LEDs add an amazing bedazzling aspect to a keyboard, and that we should pray to the RGB gods to grace us with their glorious rainbow light.

That said, I don't mind it either way.

LEDs are useful as lock indicators, if you want more lights get x-mas tree.

I have cats and can't have an xmas tree, so how about I get a keyboard instead.


Get rid of them.
http://bridesthrowingcats.com/


This is one the weirdest things I have seen recently.
This is what happened when I  searched for 'throwing cats', lol.  Pretty hilarious once you realize they're all fake.


Imagine a bride throwing cats instead of flowers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sun, 08 November 2015, 18:00:41
It's okay to trash rubberdomes for being crappy as long as I can trash all mechanicals for being crappy because all I've tried is a TVS-e Gold and Ducky XM.

Trash talking something for it's poor quality is different than trash talking something because you have not tried it, it's two completely different animals.

Just tired of the "ewwww rubber domes so attrocious!"  Hey maybe you don't like them, but if you are going to judge ALL of them based on a select few - then you deserve to be called out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Sun, 08 November 2015, 18:11:41
Just tired of the "ewwww rubber domes so attrocious!"  Hey maybe you don't like them, but if you are going to judge ALL of them based on a select few - then you deserve to be called out.

That's true.

Or the folks that won't even touch a buckling spring keyboard.
Some are more influenced by others more influenced by others.

Hmm.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 08 November 2015, 20:04:09
I really liked the addon that got banned from the recent MD Otaku set  :(

the rising sun?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sun, 08 November 2015, 20:49:53
I really liked the addon that got banned from the recent MD Otaku set  :(

the rising sun?

Yes.  Apparently there are some who are offended by the image.

If they are that offended it is curious that they would be interested in a Japanese character keyset.  Perhaps if they are so offended they should take it a step further and ban all Japanese products from Korea - including Realforce and Filco keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 08 November 2015, 21:44:33
I really liked the addon that got banned from the recent MD Otaku set  :(

the rising sun?

Yes.  Apparently there are some who are offended by the image.

If they are that offended it is curious that they would be interested in a Japanese character keyset.  Perhaps if they are so offended they should take it a step further and ban all Japanese products from Korea - including Realforce and Filco keyboards.

It's about the symbol means, it's the same as the Germans taken offense to the Swastika. It represents a dark time in their countries past, you're logic is very flawed in saying that all Japanese products should be banned because they take offense to a symbol. Realforce and Filco have nothing to do with atrocities linked to rising sun flag. I suggest you do a little reading, http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/ (http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atectatifern on Sun, 08 November 2015, 22:09:05
The flag's currently used by the Japan self-defense forces. This oversensitivity is ridiculous. I'm glad Nuclear Data didn't draw the attention of SJWs from Greeenpeace.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 08 November 2015, 22:14:24
The flag's currently used by the Japan self-defense forces. This oversensitivity is ridiculous. I'm glad Nuclear Data didn't draw the attention of SJWs from Greeenpeace.

They do not use the exact same flag as Imperial Japan, the current flag for Japan's Self Defense Force has 8 rays with a gold border instead of Rising Sun's 16 with no border.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atectatifern on Sun, 08 November 2015, 22:24:46
They do not use the exact same flag as Imperial Japan, the current flag for Japan's Self Defense Force has 8 rays with a gold border instead of Rising Sun's 16 with no border.
I realize Wikipedia might not be the best authority on vexillology, but this flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Maritime_Self-Defense_Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Maritime_Self-Defense_Force)) used by the JDF (maritime) sports 16 rays. In the case of the keyset, it's a distinction without a difference. No one was buying the keyset to try to glorify the atrocities of Imperial Japan, and the people who complained about it and got it taken down did no service to their cause.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 08 November 2015, 22:34:23
They do not use the exact same flag as Imperial Japan, the current flag for Japan's Self Defense Force has 8 rays with a gold border instead of Rising Sun's 16 with no border.
I realize Wikipedia might not be the best authority on vexillology, but this flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Maritime_Self-Defense_Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Maritime_Self-Defense_Force)) used by the JDF (maritime) sports 16 rays. In the case of the keyset, it's a distinction without a difference. No one was buying the keyset to try to glorify the atrocities of Imperial Japan, and the people who complained about it and got it taken down did no service to their cause.

I don't believe they were trying to glorify the atrocities either but the people who complain may prefer to not be reminded of it. Think of coming out with a German themed keyboard where you could have the current German Flag as a child deal or Nazi Germany's flag. I don't really care either way about the set but I can't stand when people don't look at both sides of the situation.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atectatifern on Sun, 08 November 2015, 22:39:13
I don't believe they were trying to glorify the atrocities either but the people who complain may prefer to not be reminded of it. Think of coming out with a German themed keyboard where you could have the current German Flag as a child deal or Nazi Germany's flag. I don't really care either way about the set but I can't stand when people don't look at both sides of the situation.
People who didn't want it don't have to buy it. I'd be offended by an ISIS themed keyset, but I wouldn't be baying to have it banned--I just wouldn't support it. The right of free expression is more important than the non-existent right of any of us to not be offended.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Sun, 08 November 2015, 22:39:57
This is so strange.  The rising sun image is a theme used in the import tuner culture all the time--and they're driving around with that in/on the car.  This is just a keyboard typically used in the privacy of one's home/office.

I'll never understand how the world works sometimes...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 08 November 2015, 22:45:06
I don't believe they were trying to glorify the atrocities either but the people who complain may prefer to not be reminded of it. Think of coming out with a German themed keyboard where you could have the current German Flag as a child deal or Nazi Germany's flag. I don't really care either way about the set but I can't stand when people don't look at both sides of the situation.
People who didn't want it don't have to buy it. I'd be offended by an ISIS themed keyset, but I wouldn't be baying to have it banned--I just wouldn't support it. The right of free expression is more important than the non-existent right of any of us to not be offended.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that if they if they don't want don't buy it. They problem is you have to look at it from Massdrop's point of view, they're in a lose-lose situation. They either keep the child kit and piss off the people that get offended and possibly lose business or get rid of the child kit, take a hit on a few sales and get a little backlash for cutting out the kit. Massdrop drop was just trying to cover their asses, people love to have a reason to complain.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 08 November 2015, 22:45:28
It represents a dark time in their countries past
DARK TIMES
(http://banzaiskydiver.com/MuSgzyHU5CRAuUd/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/WWII-Japanese-Warrior-Soldiers-and-Rising-Sun-Flag.jpg)
(http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/7/66431.jpg)

GOOD TIMES
(https://totorosan.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/otaku-pillow-person.jpg?w=384&h=288)
(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/08/500x_dsc04862.jpg)
(http://www.vhemt.org/japanbirthdeath.jpg)
(http://image.e-nls.com/pict_pc/1_1393996719_m_DUdwN.jpg)
(note the word "Lolinco" on that last image)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atectatifern on Sun, 08 November 2015, 22:49:23
Massdrop drop was just trying to cover their asses, people love to have a reason to complain.
You nailed it right there. Commercial expediency plus an agitating few result in effective suppression. And it's unlikely the backlash will cost them enough to register though I do hope it makes designers think twice or more before committing to having MD be their GB platform.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: neverused on Sun, 08 November 2015, 23:05:29


People who didn't want it don't have to buy it. I'd be offended by an ISIS themed keyset, but I wouldn't be baying to have it banned--I just wouldn't support it. The right of free expression is more important than the non-existent right of any of us to not be offended.

Exactly, it's a free market. If you don't like it, don't be a *****; instead don't buy it.


It's about the symbol means, it's the same as the Germans taken offense to the Swastika. It represents a dark time in their countries past, you're logic is very flawed in saying that all Japanese products should be banned because they take offense to a symbol. Realforce and Filco have nothing to do with atrocities linked to rising sun flag. I suggest you do a little reading, http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/ (http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/)

This is the stupidest crock of ****. Should the world get worked up when they see the British flag? The American flag? What about Soviet memorabilia? Are you going to hunt down the Yuri IC and ***** about that too? How about the jtk IC with counter strike imagery? You know people with guns kill people, is anyone going to be offended by that? No? Why is that? I'll tell you why, because it's stupid, short sighted, ignorant,  and entitled. If you don't line something, don't buy it, but in the meantime get off your high horse and admit that everything offends someone and it's their job to deal with it on their own. This is a keyboard community, not a political history forum. If someone has a symbol you don't like in a group buy, then don't buy it.

The flag's currently used by the Japan self-defense forces. This oversensitivity is ridiculous. I'm glad Nuclear Data didn't draw the attention of SJWs from Greeenpeace.

+1 This is bordering on moronic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 08 November 2015, 23:16:05


It's about the symbol means, it's the same as the Germans taken offense to the Swastika. It represents a dark time in their countries past, you're logic is very flawed in saying that all Japanese products should be banned because they take offense to a symbol. Realforce and Filco have nothing to do with atrocities linked to rising sun flag. I suggest you do a little reading, http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/ (http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/)

This is the stupidest crock of ****. Should the world get worked up when they see the British flag? The American flag? What about Soviet memorabilia? Are you going to hunt down the Yuri IC and ***** about that too? How about the jtk IC with counter strike imagery? You know people with guns kill people, is anyone going to be offended by that? No? Why is that? I'll tell you why, because it's stupid, short sighted, ignorant,  and entitled. If you don't line something, don't buy it, but in the meantime get off your high horse and admit that everything offends someone and it's their job to deal with it on their own. This is a keyboard community, not a political history forum. If someone has a symbol you don't like in a group buy, then don't buy it.

To start off with, I am in no way *****ing and would like to retain this conversation with maturity, please. I do not like the Otaku set, nor do I have any affiliation with it however I'm trying to make you look at this problem from both points of view. Looking at your previous posts, you are being very single minded and making very quick judgments. The Nazi Flag and the Imperial Japanese Army Flag both represent dark times for there country, they're citizens would prefer to not be reminded but their ancestors heinous crimes. Japan does still not use the flag today the Imperial Japanese Army Flag has a centered sun disc while the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force has a skewed sun disc to the left. As I said previously Massdrop is just trying to cover their ass, it is in their best interest to drop the child kit rather than giving people a reason to get pissed off and boycott Massdrop in their free time. No matter how much complaining you do it will not bring back the child kit, it sucks, get over it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: neverused on Sun, 08 November 2015, 23:38:56


It's about the symbol means, it's the same as the Germans taken offense to the Swastika. It represents a dark time in their countries past, you're logic is very flawed in saying that all Japanese products should be banned because they take offense to a symbol. Realforce and Filco have nothing to do with atrocities linked to rising sun flag. I suggest you do a little reading, http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/ (http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/)

This is the stupidest crock of ****. Should the world get worked up when they see the British flag? The American flag? What about Soviet memorabilia? Are you going to hunt down the Yuri IC and ***** about that too? How about the jtk IC with counter strike imagery? You know people with guns kill people, is anyone going to be offended by that? No? Why is that? I'll tell you why, because it's stupid, short sighted, ignorant,  and entitled. If you don't line something, don't buy it, but in the meantime get off your high horse and admit that everything offends someone and it's their job to deal with it on their own. This is a keyboard community, not a political history forum. If someone has a symbol you don't like in a group buy, then don't buy it.

To start off with, I am in no way *****ing and would like to retain this conversation with maturity, please. I do not like the Otaku set, nor do I have any affiliation with it however I'm trying to make you look at this problem from both points of view. Looking at your previous posts, you are being very single minded and making very quick judgments. The Nazi Flag and the Imperial Japanese Army Flag both represent dark times for there country, they're citizens would prefer to not be reminded but their ancestors heinous crimes. Japan does still not use the flag today the Imperial Japanese Army Flag has a centered sun disc while the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force has a skewed sun disc to the left. As I said previously Massdrop is just trying to cover their ass, it is in their best interest to drop the child kit rather than giving people a reason to get pissed off and boycott Massdrop in their free time. No matter how much complaining you do it will not bring back the child kit, it sucks, get over it.
What you stated is more or less fact. I think the whole reactionary upset due to the symbol is stupid. I can see how my reply would seem to attack you and for that I apologize. I still think that the decision was ignorant and short sighted.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 08 November 2015, 23:55:43


It's about the symbol means, it's the same as the Germans taken offense to the Swastika. It represents a dark time in their countries past, you're logic is very flawed in saying that all Japanese products should be banned because they take offense to a symbol. Realforce and Filco have nothing to do with atrocities linked to rising sun flag. I suggest you do a little reading, http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/ (http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/)

This is the stupidest crock of ****. Should the world get worked up when they see the British flag? The American flag? What about Soviet memorabilia? Are you going to hunt down the Yuri IC and ***** about that too? How about the jtk IC with counter strike imagery? You know people with guns kill people, is anyone going to be offended by that? No? Why is that? I'll tell you why, because it's stupid, short sighted, ignorant,  and entitled. If you don't line something, don't buy it, but in the meantime get off your high horse and admit that everything offends someone and it's their job to deal with it on their own. This is a keyboard community, not a political history forum. If someone has a symbol you don't like in a group buy, then don't buy it.

To start off with, I am in no way *****ing and would like to retain this conversation with maturity, please. I do not like the Otaku set, nor do I have any affiliation with it however I'm trying to make you look at this problem from both points of view. Looking at your previous posts, you are being very single minded and making very quick judgments. The Nazi Flag and the Imperial Japanese Army Flag both represent dark times for there country, they're citizens would prefer to not be reminded but their ancestors heinous crimes. Japan does still not use the flag today the Imperial Japanese Army Flag has a centered sun disc while the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force has a skewed sun disc to the left. As I said previously Massdrop is just trying to cover their ass, it is in their best interest to drop the child kit rather than giving people a reason to get pissed off and boycott Massdrop in their free time. No matter how much complaining you do it will not bring back the child kit, it sucks, get over it.
What you stated is more or less fact. I think the whole reactionary upset due to the symbol is stupid. I can see how my reply would seem to attack you and for that I apologize. I still think that the decision was ignorant and short sighted.

I agree as well that Massdrop's quick actions was the wrong thing but I can also understand that they were afraid of giving people a reason to complain and creative negative pr for the company. At least we know for future group buys that Massdrop may not necessarily be the best option for keysets, I've never liked it. Apology accepted :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 09 November 2015, 01:36:19
Dedicated numpads, like arrow keys, are just a waste of space when your board has programmable layers, since you can make them appear on the home row at any time right where your fingers already are.

Graffiti™ is the best text input method ever for touchscreen devices. Seriously, onscreen keyboards are so dumb and unsuitable for the task I think their designers are trolling on purpose. "Let's take a computer board, shrink it down to unmanageable size and put it on a flat surface where you can't tell where keys are by touch alone". Good grief.


Heh.  I'm the opposite.  I'm not huge on having things on multiple layers.  The more keys the merrier.  I might go as small as a TKL but anything less is for limited use only.  I gladly prefer dedicated keys to layers.  Then again, I really don't care about proximity to home row as I'm not a strict home row typist and have my hands floating a lot more. 

As for Graffiti.  It was honestly good for its time but that time has long past.  I'd rather any keyboard, virtual or physical, to having to use that old system again. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 09 November 2015, 11:07:45
So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Mon, 09 November 2015, 11:08:25
So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 09 November 2015, 11:09:59
So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Mon, 09 November 2015, 12:34:49
So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 09 November 2015, 12:48:11
So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 09 November 2015, 12:49:46
So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

For keysets it happens very rarely to have more than a year to get a keyset. It's when something goes wrong that it takes that long.
However 6months is a normal wait time for a lot of sets .
Because the orders are often open one month, payments take a while to all get collected. Then you finalize the details with manufacturer, put the order in, he puts you on his schedule. You can lose one or two months if his schedule is busy. production time. sorting time. shipping time.
so yeah if you look into detail 6months isn't that much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 09 November 2015, 12:54:02
So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

For keysets it happens very rarely to have more than a year to get a keyset. It's when something goes wrong that it takes that long.
However 6months is a normal wait time for a lot of sets.

Okay, I was guessing it was a rarity because even the seemingly patient MK community would probably be upset with 2 year waits.  The 6 month wait or longer is understandable when dealing with GBs, and that's why with regular updates it wouldn't bother me, and I am expecting the SKIDATA+ GB I recently joined to be coming quite a few months out into 2016.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Mon, 09 November 2015, 12:54:31
So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

It's very rare for a group buy to get to or even exceed 2 years. Yes there are group buys that take up to and a little over a year but that's part of joining group buys. Anytime you join a group buy you should always take the delivery dates with a grain salt, sadly something could go wrong and delay it further or if the GB leader has some personal issues to deal with(which seems to be the case for a few). For Signature Plastics they have a limited amount of machines that can produce SA caps, with the current flood of designs they are limited by the machines production rate. It all depends on busy they are and even if they have a huge wholesale orders to attend to as well. Key sets on average take about I'd say 5-7 months.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 09 November 2015, 13:02:29
So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

It's very rare for a group buy to get to or even exceed 2 years. Yes there are group buys that take up to and a little over a year but that's part of joining group buys. Anytime you join a group buy you should always take the delivery dates with a grain salt, sadly something could go wrong and delay it further or if the GB leader has some personal issues to deal with(which seems to be the case for a few). For Signature Plastics they have a limited amount of machines that can produce SA caps, with the current flood of designs they are limited by the machines production rate. It all depends on busy they are and even if they have a huge wholesale orders to attend to as well. Key sets on average take about I'd say 5-7 months.

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Mon, 09 November 2015, 13:05:51
It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 09 November 2015, 13:16:58
It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Mon, 09 November 2015, 13:26:01
It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

Yeah there is a selection of molds to choose but when a custom font is requested is when the price starts to jump.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Mon, 09 November 2015, 13:47:16
For Signature Plastics they have a limited amount of machines that can produce SA caps, with the current flood of designs they are limited by the machines production rate. It all depends on busy they are and even if they have a huge wholesale orders to attend to as well. Key sets on average take about I'd say 5-7 months.

Yeah this was what I was referring to. There's gonna be a tipping point where the rate of sets designed is more than the number of sets produced, and people are gonna have to accept DCS or other producers or else new sets will just keep being pushed out. Hopefully JTK will be able alleviate some of the demand...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 09 November 2015, 13:52:30
For Signature Plastics they have a limited amount of machines that can produce SA caps, with the current flood of designs they are limited by the machines production rate. It all depends on busy they are and even if they have a huge wholesale orders to attend to as well. Key sets on average take about I'd say 5-7 months.

Yeah this was what I was referring to. There's gonna be a tipping point where the rate of sets designed is more than the number of sets produced, and people are gonna have to accept DCS or other producers or else new sets will just keep being pushed out. Hopefully JTK will be able alleviate some of the demand...


Unpopular question: What sort of customers paid many months in advance and wait long lead times to get ugly-wobbly key caps?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 09 November 2015, 14:16:10
This is where I hope matt3o can get the spherical deep dish PBT molds done and put into use.  That gets us more options and allows for another tall spherical profile for those that want such.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 09 November 2015, 14:32:57
It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Mon, 09 November 2015, 14:35:44
It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

With SP's new agreement with designers I believe that SP still has ownership of the molds since they are willing to create the keysets as the please without having to go through the designer every time. By having the designer sign the agreement they are basically signing away ownership of their design to SP in return for a small margin of profit. Nuclear Data was just on their website not too long ago but it sold out again, I'm assuming it will make a re-appearance at some point.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Mon, 09 November 2015, 14:37:18
This is where I hope matt3o can get the spherical deep dish PBT molds done and put into use.  That gets us more options and allows for another tall spherical profile for those that want such.

Aren't those for buckling springs? Or am I thinking of something else.

Quote
So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

I believe that the creators generally own all custom legends, but I'm not sure how many of the legends on nuclear data are custom.
And skidata is GMK so thats a different manufacturer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 09 November 2015, 14:50:53
It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

The molds are all the same for every set, unless legend choice is different.  But if we ignore legends, and look at blanks, they're all the same mold (each Row 1 1u key is injected into the "same" mold (realistically each mold produces multiple keys and they probably operate multiple molds at once)), only the resin that's injected into the mold changes. 

I never know how much any given person knows about injection molding, so hopefully I'm not telling you things you already know.  :-[
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 09 November 2015, 16:14:34
It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

With SP's new agreement with designers I believe that SP still has ownership of the molds since they are willing to create the keysets as the please without having to go through the designer every time. By having the designer sign the agreement they are basically signing away ownership of their design to SP in return for a small margin of profit. Nuclear Data was just on their website not too long ago but it sold out again, I'm assuming it will make a re-appearance at some point.

I can see the reasoning behind SP doing strictly from a business perspective, kind of sucks for creators though.  I also did see the Nuclear Data set was made available again a couple weeks ago, sadly it sold out in like 15 minutes
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 09 November 2015, 16:16:39
It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

The molds are all the same for every set, unless legend choice is different.  But if we ignore legends, and look at blanks, they're all the same mold (each Row 1 1u key is injected into the "same" mold (realistically each mold produces multiple keys and they probably operate multiple molds at once)), only the resin that's injected into the mold changes. 

I never know how much any given person knows about injection molding, so hopefully I'm not telling you things you already know.  :-[

I know that injection molding involves injecting materials into a preset mold but that is about all, so the clarification was much appreciated :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bromono on Mon, 09 November 2015, 16:24:21
It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

The molds are all the same for every set, unless legend choice is different.  But if we ignore legends, and look at blanks, they're all the same mold (each Row 1 1u key is injected into the "same" mold (realistically each mold produces multiple keys and they probably operate multiple molds at once)), only the resin that's injected into the mold changes. 

I never know how much any given person knows about injection molding, so hopefully I'm not telling you things you already know.  :-[

there is a video of this somewhere. Cant remember where though..

Was it from Linus Tech when he toured the Cherry factory?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 09 November 2015, 17:38:23
This is where I hope matt3o can get the spherical deep dish PBT molds done and put into use.  That gets us more options and allows for another tall spherical profile for those that want such.

Aren't those for buckling springs? Or am I thinking of something else.

Quote
So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

I believe that the creators generally own all custom legends, but I'm not sure how many of the legends on nuclear data are custom.
And skidata is GMK so thats a different manufacturer.

There are two tall spherical projects going on that I'm aware of.  matt3o is working on one that seems to be working on Cherry stems while rsbseb is working on one that will focus on buckling spring caps, at least at first.  Last I've seen, rsbseb was having health issues and needed to put that on the back burner.  For matt3o, he submitted caps for full scans and that's the last we've heard thus far.

As for ownership, the import things owned are the molds and any novelties that might fall under copyright protection.  The fonts as typography aren't protected. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: calvinhousecat on Mon, 09 November 2015, 19:02:08
So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

Agreed, huge props for those who participated in 7bit's group buys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 11 November 2015, 20:57:16
Trans artisans don't really look good, even with backlighting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Sat, 21 November 2015, 20:37:48
I don't really care about the material of keycaps, I think the surface finish is most important.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dabeshu on Sat, 21 November 2015, 22:46:36
I like, all keyboards :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dabeshu on Sat, 21 November 2015, 22:49:28
ripster kicks ass :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sun, 22 November 2015, 00:00:13
The standard ANSI 104 layout is boring to me.

Hardly any of my boards have it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 22 November 2015, 10:56:34
I don't really care about the material of keycaps, I think the surface finish is most important.

I agree with you but the thickness is also a major factor to me. I hate really thin key caps like tai hao.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 22 November 2015, 22:53:05
I don't really care about the material of keycaps, I think the surface finish is most important.

I agree with you but the thickness is also a major factor to me. I hate really thin key caps like tai hao.

The thickness of the spacebar is very important to me, but rest of the keys I can't really feel the difference except the typing sound
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 22 November 2015, 23:11:22
I don't really care about the material of keycaps, I think the surface finish is most important.

I agree with you but the thickness is also a major factor to me. I hate really thin key caps like tai hao.

The thickness of the spacebar is very important to me, but rest of the keys I can't really feel the difference except the typing sound

Your right that it doesn't affect the feel that much, they just feel more rigid to me. I'm really liking my OTD Red Alert set, I was using granite on my RS96 for awhile and didn't really mind the profile.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sun, 22 November 2015, 23:44:03
I don't really care about the material of keycaps, I think the surface finish is most important.

I agree with you but the thickness is also a major factor to me. I hate really thin key caps like tai hao.

The thickness of the spacebar is very important to me, but rest of the keys I can't really feel the difference except the typing sound

Your right that it doesn't affect the feel that much, they just feel more rigid to me. I'm really liking my OTD Red Alert set, I was using granite on my RS96 for awhile and didn't really mind the profile.

Yeah, key cap thickness is odd. On my Alps sets, the thickest ABS available sounds high pitched versus the Tai Hao, which sounds really good with blue alps. The PBT equivalent which is made from the same manufacturer (presumably, thanks to very similar mold marks and other evidence I've seen) deadens the click and does make the sound overall lower. Thin cheap PBT and Thin cheap ABS tend to sound and feel crappy any way you serve them.

Sound is definitely an important aspect for me. A more pleasant sound while typing is always nice.

But yeah, thicker caps do tend to feel a bit more solid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 23 November 2015, 00:22:56
Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 23 November 2015, 12:25:33
Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard

Yep, I would say that 90% or more of people who use keyboards could get away without one, they just come standard on all of the ****** rubber-dome keyboards so people have a hard time without them because they are used to it being there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Mon, 23 November 2015, 12:41:04
Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard

They remind me of using a GPS unit instead of your phone for directions. Like some people might find them better or they have some applications where they're superior, but most people just use them out of habit rather than any real advantage.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 23 November 2015, 13:21:42
Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard

They remind me of using a GPS unit instead of your phone for directions. Like some people might find them better or they have some applications where they're superior, but most people just use them out of habit rather than any real advantage.

Truth be told, I have my Duck Lightpad for 1) aesthetics, 2) because it "completes" the 75% layout of my Octagon, 3) keybinds and macros - keypads are great for that. Rarely do I ever use it for any kind of data entry, though I feel like a professional whenever I enter 1-handed number combos with it.

Yep, "vintage" ergo clears and sorbothane dampening on a pad that gets much less use than the main keyboard, but hey... It is nice when I DO use it.  :-[
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 23 November 2015, 13:32:20
Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard

They remind me of using a GPS unit instead of your phone for directions. Like some people might find them better or they have some applications where they're superior, but most people just use them out of habit rather than any real advantage.

Truth be told, I have my Duck Lightpad for 1) aesthetics, 2) because it "completes" the 75% layout of my Octagon, 3) keybinds and macros - keypads are great for that. Rarely do I ever use it for any kind of data entry, though I feel like a professional whenever I enter 1-handed number combos with it.

Yep, "vintage" ergo clears and sorbothane dampening on a pad that gets much less use than the main keyboard, but hey... It is nice when I DO use it.  :-[

I love the look of the Lightpads, I would possibly pick one up for reasons you mentioned like aesthetics and macros.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Mon, 23 November 2015, 13:42:34
Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard

They remind me of using a GPS unit instead of your phone for directions. Like some people might find them better or they have some applications where they're superior, but most people just use them out of habit rather than any real advantage.

Truth be told, I have my Duck Lightpad for 1) aesthetics, 2) because it "completes" the 75% layout of my Octagon, 3) keybinds and macros - keypads are great for that. Rarely do I ever use it for any kind of data entry, though I feel like a professional whenever I enter 1-handed number combos with it.

Yep, "vintage" ergo clears and sorbothane dampening on a pad that gets much less use than the main keyboard, but hey... It is nice when I DO use it.  :-[

Hell I've got a numpad in the mail right now to use at work. But thats just cause I feel like that will be a bit more inconspicuous than an entire work keyboard...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 23 November 2015, 15:04:20
Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard

They remind me of using a GPS unit instead of your phone for directions. Like some people might find them better or they have some applications where they're superior, but most people just use them out of habit rather than any real advantage.

No love for dedicated devices anymore, huh?

I love using a dedicated GPS unit, for multiple reasons.  1, it's just easier having a separate device so you don't have to worry about your phone spouting instructions off while you're in the gas station relieving yourself.  2, they have far better support for saving destinations, setting up routes with multiple stop points, etc, at least IME.  3, (this is the big one for me) some phones don't even have GPS units inside, they use cell towers to get your location - good luck navigating with your iPhone if you don't have cell service...  :rolleyes:  learned that one the hard way.

Anyway, I also need my numpad...how do the kids enter data these days without a numpad?  :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rpeterclark on Mon, 23 November 2015, 15:13:17
Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard

They remind me of using a GPS unit instead of your phone for directions. Like some people might find them better or they have some applications where they're superior, but most people just use them out of habit rather than any real advantage.

No love for dedicated devices anymore, huh?

I love using a dedicated GPS unit, for multiple reasons.  1, it's just easier having a separate device so you don't have to worry about your phone spouting instructions off while you're in the gas station relieving yourself.  2, they have far better support for saving destinations, setting up routes with multiple stop points, etc, at least IME.  3, (this is the big one for me) some phones don't even have GPS units inside, they use cell towers to get your location - good luck navigating with your iPhone if you don't have cell service...  :rolleyes:  learned that one the hard way.

Anyway, I also need my numpad...how do the kids enter data these days without a numpad?  :confused:

The feature I miss from my GPS unit is that it showed the speed limit where ever I was. It died, my phone works well enough as a GPS so I never replaced the GPS unit, but now I have to look for speed limit road signs like a cave man.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dr_habu on Mon, 23 November 2015, 15:17:39
Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard


I agree - I can't imagine having a computer without an optical drive just as much as I can't imagine having a keyboard without a numpad


yeah, I know that's not what you meant
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 23 November 2015, 15:23:54
The feature I miss from my GPS unit is that it showed the speed limit where ever I was. It died, my phone works well enough as a GPS so I never replaced the GPS unit, but now I have to look for speed limit road signs like a cave man.

That's another great feature!  Although not so great those very rare times that the speed limit would be changed to a lower speed and the GPS wouldn't know it.  :-X

Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard


I agree - I can't imagine having a computer without an optical drive just as much as I can't imagine having a keyboard without a numpad


yeah, I know that's not what you meant

Hehe, agreed.  A cheap optical drive costs $20 (if that).  Even if I don't use mine every day or nearly as often as I used to, why would I knowingly cripple myself for the times I do need one? 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 23 November 2015, 20:58:49
Too much bro caps on gh...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 23 November 2015, 21:39:04
Most artisan's are fugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 23 November 2015, 23:59:39
TKLs are overrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 24 November 2015, 00:05:10
TKLs are overrated.

60% is ****.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 24 November 2015, 00:08:42
TKLs are overrated.

60% is ****.

Good thing I'm not much of a 60% fan either. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 24 November 2015, 09:01:29
TKLs are overrated.

60% is ****.

Good thing I'm not much of a 60% fan either. :P

Psh, I use an octo-layer numpad as my daily driver.  Full-size, TKLs, and 60% boards are all too mainstream for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eternalmetal on Tue, 24 November 2015, 09:11:53
TKLs are overrated.

The vast majority of the time I use my computer for internet browsing, and I enjoy navigating websites and forums with the nav cluster.  I hardly ever have to type in more numbers than just my credit card information, so a dedicated numpad for just that purpose seems ridiculously unnecessary.  I would think that most casual users use their computer in a similar way, and thus would also feel that the nav cluster in a TKL board is one of the more used sections of a keyboard when not 'typing'.  Ive never owned a 60% board, and even with typing alone, I use the delete key enough to basically require it to be on a primary layer.  A full size keyboard takes up a lot of space just for a numpad that I seldom use, if at all since even when im entering numbers into spreadsheets (which is rare), I tend to just use the number row.  Redundant keys for infrequent tasks just seems like a waste of space.  Of course, this would be different if the num pad was on the left side of the keyboard, but this is almost never the case.  So for casual home-use boards, I would say that the TKL design is the best compromise between space and usability without wanting to adapt to a 60% setup with layers and such.  It is the best board size for retaining the functionality of a full size board without redundant keys, therefore it is no mystery to me why it is the most popular among users.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 24 November 2015, 12:23:22
TKLs are overrated.

60% is ****.

Good thing I'm not much of a 60% fan either. :P

Psh, I use an octo-layer numpad as my daily driver.  Full-size, TKLs, and 60% boards are all too mainstream for me.

Ahaha. My Lightpad has 22 keys, just 4 short of the English alphabet! Now you're giving me ideas!  >:D

TKLs are overrated.

The vast majority of the time I use my computer for internet browsing, and I enjoy navigating websites and forums with the nav cluster.  I hardly ever have to type in more numbers than just my credit card information, so a dedicated numpad for just that purpose seems ridiculously unnecessary.  I would think that most casual users use their computer in a similar way, and thus would also feel that the nav cluster in a TKL board is one of the more used sections of a keyboard when not 'typing'.  Ive never owned a 60% board, and even with typing alone, I use the delete key enough to basically require it to be on a primary layer.  A full size keyboard takes up a lot of space just for a numpad that I seldom use, if at all since even when im entering numbers into spreadsheets (which is rare), I tend to just use the number row.  Redundant keys for infrequent tasks just seems like a waste of space.  Of course, this would be different if the num pad was on the left side of the keyboard, but this is almost never the case.  So for casual home-use boards, I would say that the TKL design is the best compromise between space and usability without wanting to adapt to a 60% setup with layers and such.  It is the best board size for retaining the functionality of a full size board without redundant keys, therefore it is no mystery to me why it is the most popular among users.


You guys thought I was in favor of 60% when it was actually, me, 75%!

I hear you though. Nav clusters and and arrows are a wonderful convenience, as is having the function row just in case. 75% is definitely my favorite layout, hands down. I find it more practical than TKL, though it is missing three keys, but I think the difference in size makes up for it. I still get the nav cluster and arrows and can map it however either way. :)  I personally love compact layouts that retain functionality like 75% does.

TKL is definitely the most popular layout by far, I think. I do find 60% layouts to be the most  aesthetically pleasing though I also find TKLs to look quite nice, but I just don't enjoy using them. Everything is too spaced out than necessary. I already know the retort to this being the exact opposite of what was said. xD I know, the 75% layout has a tendency to look like a slab of keys.

For the 60%s I do have, which  have either been bought through coincidence for a project or because I really liked the style (bent case infinity), I like to create the layers to be as practical as possible. On my Duck Eagles, both feel fantastic and I have the most important keys on the first layer, including delete. :D Arrows and F-row on the second layer while 2nd layer + function turns the arrows into the nav cluster (Home, End, Pg Down, Pg Up).

It's made the 60% layout a lot more pleasant for me.



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:07:36
I miss this thread, so I'm bringing it back.
I actually prefer the feeling of OG ABS sets to the OG dyesub PBT ones. Sue me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:17:23
I miss this thread, so I'm bringing it back.
I actually prefer the feeling of OG ABS sets to the OG dyesub PBT ones. Sue me.

I was just thinking of this.

Is it unpopular to love 75% layouts while not liking 65% layouts?

I also like OG ABS when it comes to Alps over OG PBT.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:19:19
Is it unpopular to love 75% layouts while not liking 65% layouts?

Speaking of this... I think we're on good enough terms for me to finally say this...

75% is the ugliest layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:20:55
Is it unpopular to love 75% layouts while not liking 65% layouts?

Speaking of this... I think we're on good enough terms for me to finally say this...

75% is the ugliest layout.

 :'(








It's okay.









No, but seriously.  >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:22:28
Is it unpopular to love 75% layouts while not liking 65% layouts?

Speaking of this... I think we're on good enough terms for me to finally say this...

75% is the ugliest layout.

 :'(








It's okay.









No, but seriously.  >:D
(http://images.thehollywoodgossip.com/iu/s--h-rB18CM--/t_full/f_auto,fl_lossy,q_75/v1387464848/taylor-swift-pathetic.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:27:45
Is it unpopular to love 75% layouts while not liking 65% layouts?

Speaking of this... I think we're on good enough terms for me to finally say this...

75% is the ugliest layout.

 :'(








It's okay.









No, but seriously.  >:D
Show Image
(http://images.thehollywoodgossip.com/iu/s--h-rB18CM--/t_full/f_auto,fl_lossy,q_75/v1387464848/taylor-swift-pathetic.gif)


(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/3310478.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:28:25
Show Image
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/3310478.jpg)


niceme.me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:29:10
Show Image
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/3310478.jpg)


niceme.me

Don't make fun of my mee mees
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:35:11
Is it unpopular to love 75% layouts while not liking 65% layouts?

Speaking of this... I think we're on good enough terms for me to finally say this...

75% is the ugliest layout.

75% is not for me. In addition to looking bad like you've said, I had to always look down to press any keys outside of the standard 60% area. On a TKL you can feel your way around, but not so in a 75%. Not worth saving 10 square inches of desk space over, if you ask me.  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:44:41
I've just gotten so used to having everything integrated on a 60% that it feels like way more effort to move my hands at all for the arrow keys, instead of just having them on a FN layer on the home row.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:46:14
Is it unpopular to love 75% layouts while not liking 65% layouts?

Speaking of this... I think we're on good enough terms for me to finally say this...

75% is the ugliest layout.

75% is not for me. In addition to looking bad like you've said, I had to always look down to press any keys outside of the standard 60% area. On a TKL you can feel your way around, but not so in a 75%. Not worth saving 10 square inches of desk space over, if you ask me.  ;)

Haha, good. Another post so I don't double post and can actually respond with how I feel about the 75% layout. 

I've gotten really used to the layout, so I never really have to look down these days. I definitely agree that a TKL has better separation between regions, just like a full-size board, but, since I'm a fan of optimizing space, I prefer 75% layouts. To me, a TKL is just wasting space. The separation though is definitely a big plus to a lot of people, I think. They do look nice too! 
 
When I first saw the Race II, the first 75% I set my eyes upon, I did think they looked like an ugly slab of keys. Judging by the people on imgur calling my Octagon ugly when I wanted to test a random upload, haha... Yeah I think most people don't really care for 75%.

I'm really not sure why I decided to try it (it definitely wasn't driven by aesthetics--60% is my favorite there). I think probably because my first mechanical board was a Rapoo KX, which has arrow keys and a function row, so I figured keeping a layout as close to that (I enjoyed the KX) would be optimal for me. That's probably also why I was so used to it off that bat, from using the KX and laptops with that layout for ages. :) That must be why I lean so heavily to 75% layouts.

And thus, TKL being an almost mechanical keyboard exclusive layout, has been one I've never been too familiar with. I've barely even used full-sized boards aside from my earliest PC days and when I needed a keyboard to chat while playing PS2 games online or for Xbox Live messages.

Dear god, the slab of keys is almost as a bad as the tl;dr here, lol. :P

EDIT: After my Alps build, I am growing awfully fond of the 60% layout as I use it more and more every day. Dare say I might prefer it more than my Octagon. :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Thu, 10 December 2015, 19:19:33
Full-hand Ergodox cases are the most hideous things ever.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 10 December 2015, 22:36:41
ergo clear feel weird
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Fri, 11 December 2015, 03:22:51
GMK TA is the optimal set for smooshed-together layouts like 75%, FC660 etc, because the arrow keys are taller than the rest of their row.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bromono on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:04:21
the 2 Korean Custom keyboards I have used, the anodizing was really badly done...

Once I got a Digilog case, it really put in perspective that my previous Korean customs just where sub par.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:05:28
the 2 Korean Custom keyboards I have used, the anodizing was really badly done...

Once I got a Digilog case, it really put in perspective that my previous Korean customs just where sub par.

shots fired!  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ika on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:12:30
Sandwich style cases, especially with steel, looks awful. Basically anything with visible screws look bad but the JD40 style plate sandwiches look hideous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:32:23
the 2 Korean Custom keyboards I have used, the anodizing was really badly done...

Once I got a Digilog case, it really put in perspective that my previous Korean customs just where sub par.

what kustoms have you had? some definitely have sub-par anodizing
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:35:45
I'm not a fan of DCS profile keys and prefer DSA - feels unpopular on GH at least.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:43:25
Sandwich style cases, especially with steel, looks awful. Basically anything with visible screws look bad but the JD40 style plate sandwiches look hideous.

(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=55651.0;attach=74361;image)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 82d28a on Fri, 11 December 2015, 10:37:07
I do not think Dolch is any better or worse than any other key set.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:11:26
ergo clear feel weird

regular ergo clears feel weird

lubed 62g vintage ergo clears feel amazing.  ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ika on Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:12:48
Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=55651.0;attach=74361;image)


brb need some eye bleach after seeing this picture

:P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:30:16
ergo clear feel weird

regular ergo clears feel weird

lubed 62g vintage ergo clears feel amazing.  ^-^

Truth. :)

Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=55651.0;attach=74361;image)


brb need some eye bleach after seeing this picture

:P

At least it has wrist and palm support?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:41:48
Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=55651.0;attach=74361;image)


brb need some eye bleach after seeing this picture

:P

(http://i.imgur.com/P5TeuEh.gif?noredirect)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 11 December 2015, 13:31:12
Is it unpopular to love 75% layouts while not liking 65% layouts?

Speaking of this... I think we're on good enough terms for me to finally say this...

75% is the ugliest layout.

75% is not for me. In addition to looking bad like you've said, I had to always look down to press any keys outside of the standard 60% area. On a TKL you can feel your way around, but not so in a 75%. Not worth saving 10 square inches of desk space over, if you ask me.  ;)

I've used both.  The TKL boards here and there, the 75% more because of laptop use (I don't bother hooking a keyboard up to my laptop as it's a secondary computer for me and I'm already tight on desk space).  Honestly, I've really not had many problems with the 75% layout. 

One thing I will say is that most laptops have a superior layout - the Fn key is on the left side rather than the right side.  Makes life much easier for me if I need an Fn key and have my right hand on the mouse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 11 December 2015, 13:34:18
I'm not a fan of DCS profile keys and prefer DSA - feels unpopular on GH at least.

Don't worry, both of them suck.

Cherry is the only way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 11 December 2015, 14:21:00
I'm not a fan of DCS profile keys and prefer DSA - feels unpopular on GH at least.

Don't worry, both of them suck.

Cherry is the only way.

I mean, OG Alps is pretty sick, tho. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Enigma945 on Fri, 11 December 2015, 21:26:38
I'm not a fan of DCS profile keys and prefer DSA - feels unpopular on GH at least.
Not even dsa,  SA is the real way to go
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Sat, 12 December 2015, 01:43:42
I'm not a fan of DCS profile keys and prefer DSA - feels unpopular on GH at least.

Don't worry, both of them suck.

Cherry is the only way.

Cherry, OEM, DCS; sound the same to me. DSA > all else  :-[


I'm not a fan of DCS profile keys and prefer DSA - feels unpopular on GH at least.
Not even dsa,  SA is the real way to go

Never tried SA so can't say much there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 December 2015, 07:45:57
DCS has similar shape than Cherry but it is pretty thin so it does feel hallow while Cherry is thick and feels substantial. OEM is taller and most of the caps I have tried are very thin; in conclusion, both suck.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sat, 12 December 2015, 07:52:00
DCS has similar shape than Cherry but it is pretty thin so it does feel hallow while Cherry is thick and feels substantial. OEM is taller and most of the caps I have tried are very thin; in conclusion, both suck.

The only reason I'm okay with DCS for the time being is that it's one of our only options for custom Alps caps right now. Before getting into Alps, I used to despise the look of DCS because of its rounded corners.

Admittedly, it's grown on me as a result of my fascination with Alps. Thin caps are definitely not that great aside from when used on clicky switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 December 2015, 08:23:10
DCS has similar shape than Cherry but it is pretty thin so it does feel hallow while Cherry is thick and feels substantial. OEM is taller and most of the caps I have tried are very thin; in conclusion, both suck.

The only reason I'm okay with DCS for the time being is that it's one of our only options for custom Alps caps right now. Before getting into Alps, I used to despise the look of DCS because of its rounded corners.

Admittedly, it's grown on me as a result of my fascination with Alps. Thin caps are definitely not that great aside from when used on clicky switches.





I understand you very well; because, in my early days into keyboards I preferred ALPS, but I was very frustrated with the lack of quality caps for my board, a TKL, I felt even more frustrated by looking at pictures of sixty boards with key-caps that have bold legends and very nice shape - The OG Cherry sets - I found as well that Cherry switches came in all sort of tactile and linear stems and with different spring modules. I solved part of my frustration getting a Focus 2001 and swapping its nice key caps to my TKL, I found then the final reason to get away from ALPS, stabilizers were not standard, so I cannot swap the modifiers between boards, I sold all my ALPS and move to Cherry, later to programmable and custom based PCBs and I cannot be more happy now, using an OG Cherry set on my custom programmable board with my choice of stems and springs and even the tops are my selected clear type, - that set was the first "expensive" set that I bought and it was under fifty dollars, lol -
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hdrst on Sat, 12 December 2015, 10:26:25
I like Big-Ass-Enter Layout, but it's hard to find keycaps :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 December 2015, 10:31:42
I like Big-Ass-Enter Layout, but it's hard to find keycaps :(


I like how the big ass enter looks, but it is harder to use than ANSI enter, besides there is very few ANSI OG Cherry sets with an ISO enter, the closest being the UK based ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sat, 12 December 2015, 13:17:50
DCS has similar shape than Cherry but it is pretty thin so it does feel hallow while Cherry is thick and feels substantial. OEM is taller and most of the caps I have tried are very thin; in conclusion, both suck.

The only reason I'm okay with DCS for the time being is that it's one of our only options for custom Alps caps right now. Before getting into Alps, I used to despise the look of DCS because of its rounded corners.

Admittedly, it's grown on me as a result of my fascination with Alps. Thin caps are definitely not that great aside from when used on clicky switches.





I understand you very well; because, in my early days into keyboards I preferred ALPS, but I was very frustrated with the lack of quality caps for my board, a TKL, I felt even more frustrated by looking at pictures of sixty boards with key-caps that have bold legends and very nice shape - The OG Cherry sets - I found as well that Cherry switches came in all sort of tactile and linear stems and with different spring modules. I solved part of my frustration getting a Focus 2001 and swapping its nice key caps to my TKL, I found then the final reason to get away from ALPS, stabilizers were not standard, so I cannot swap the modifiers between boards, I sold all my ALPS and move to Cherry, later to programmable and custom based PCBs and I cannot be more happy now, using an OG Cherry set on my custom programmable board with my choice of stems and springs and even the tops are my selected clear type, - that set was the first "expensive" set that I bought and it was under fifty dollars, lol -

nice typeface m80
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 12 December 2015, 13:19:05
I like Big-Ass-Enter Layout, but it's hard to find keycaps :(

It doesn't look too bad; it would be fine if not for that 1u backspace that I constantly miss-hit (usually miss entirely :p).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LeandreN on Sat, 12 December 2015, 16:00:50
I like SA DCS keys. Also, i am not a huge fan of Cherry profile/GMK keys.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hdrst on Sat, 12 December 2015, 17:07:23
I like Big-Ass-Enter Layout, but it's hard to find keycaps :(


I like how the big ass enter looks, but it is harder to use than ANSI enter, besides there is very few ANSI OG Cherry sets with an ISO enter, the closest being the UK based ones.
it's because some of the variants of big-ass-enter stabilizer, making hard to press when hit the upper side.
big ass enter stabiliser variants:
More
Ducky/thermaltake meka/oldier keyboards
(http://home.coolpc.com.tw/siti/open/Ducky/zero2108s/coolpc-2108s-12.jpg)
Alps in geral
http://kbd.rzw.jp/alps/macway_tp-997kb-j/
(http://puu.sh/lTfoJ/de220b634b.jpg)
Steelseries 7g/6g/skydigital/zowie celeritas and variants
(http://i.imgur.com/pjXYAaR.png)
Benq KX890 variants:
(http://img.article.pchome.net/01/67/65/59/550_400mb.jpg)
Zenith Supersport SX:
(http://deskthority.net/w/images/6/6b/Zenith_Supersport_SX_--_Enter_key_stabiliser.jpg)
Some Cherry:
(http://i.imgur.com/Vc8tS.jpg)
NMB Space Invaders(nearly the best):
http://kbd.rzw.jp/nmb/nmb_rt8255cwplus/
(http://puu.sh/lTfsV/975a14df50.jpg)

I like Big-Ass-Enter Layout, but it's hard to find keycaps :(

It doesn't look too bad; it would be fine if not for that 1u backspace that I constantly miss-hit (usually miss entirely :p).
b...but i like 1u backspace too :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Tue, 15 December 2015, 08:42:22
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 15 December 2015, 08:45:33
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.


I think this is not an unpopular opinion at all, it just happens that people that own keyboards with LEDs tend to post pictures of them more and people are more vocal in praising these kind of setups.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MAR82 on Tue, 15 December 2015, 08:46:11
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 15 December 2015, 08:47:30
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I like backlighting! But I also like boards that aren't backlit! Universal love!

I admit, my Jukebox Octagon has unicorn LED vomit beneath its caps.

My intention there was to give it that rainbow look that a jukebox tends to have (at least in my imagination).

Haha.

Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 15 December 2015, 08:55:00
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Tue, 15 December 2015, 08:56:19
I wish I'd typed this instead:

"Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as wrapping Christmas lights around your car's steering wheel."

But what's done is done.

Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think this is not an unpopular opinion at all, it is just happens that people that own keyboards with LEDs tend to post pictures of them more and people are more vocal in praising these kind of setups.

Indeed. What's next—ostrich feathers?

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

The wheel's the part you operate with your hands, though, and a part you're not supposed to look at while you're driving.

I like backlighting! But I also like boards that aren't backlit! Universal love!

Okay, but this doesn't really seem like the right place for such tolerance. It's more of a kvetching topic.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)

Exactly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:32:18
Here's an interesting opinion that isn't just related to keyboards: I love coiled cables for keyboards. I hate coiled cables on headphones. When I first got into the keyboard scene, I thought I would've felt the same way coming out of the headphone scene, but nope, only the exact opposite!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:35:50
Here's an interesting opinion that isn't just related to keyboards: I love coiled cables for keyboards. I hate coiled cables on headphones. When I first got into the keyboard scene, I thought I would've felt the same way coming out of the headphone scene, but nope, only the exact opposite!

I think there's an inherent difference between the two to begin with. Keyboard cables don't really sit anywhere near you, and headphone cables are usually draped along your body, where a coil can be very annoying.

Unless you just don't like how it looks on headphones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tronbeaver on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:38:56
I like the retro look of coiled cables.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:40:01
Here's an interesting opinion that isn't just related to keyboards: I love coiled cables for keyboards. I hate coiled cables on headphones. When I first got into the keyboard scene, I thought I would've felt the same way coming out of the headphone scene, but nope, only the exact opposite!

I think there's an inherent difference between the two to begin with. Keyboard cables don't really sit anywhere near you, and headphone cables are usually draped along your body, where a coil can be very annoying.

Unless you just don't like how it looks on headphones.

Yeah, I meant that in a more aesthetic sense, but they are also certainly a pain in other ways as well, mainly in the coils snagging or tangling with any straight cables in the nearby vicinity quite easily. While coils may improve length while keeping things a bit more compact, the spring tension created makes it incredibly annoying if you start reaching the maximum length of the cable, with the headphones wanting to pull themselves off of your head.

I actually never stretch the coils on my vintage boards, and coils on custom cables were never meant to be extended. I just find them very pretty on keyboards. On headphones, I don't think coils look that good at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 17 December 2015, 00:54:17
As much as I like carbon its pretty much a ripoff of Hack'd by Geeks
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sircheddar on Thu, 17 December 2015, 01:05:11
i hate not having arrow keys, i have the curvyness of dsa sa keycaps (havent used them yet, and some of their styles are damn nice tho)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 17 December 2015, 01:35:48
i have the curvyness of dsa sa keycaps (havent used them yet, and some of their styles are damn nice tho)

I didn't like them until I tried them and promptly fell in love with SA
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SploogeFactory on Thu, 17 December 2015, 05:55:41
i have the curvyness of dsa sa keycaps (havent used them yet, and some of their styles are damn nice tho)

I didn't like them until I tried them and promptly fell in love with SA

Really, man I am afraid of the hit and miss. I could see me hating them, but then again I have no idea. Is your type speed affected?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:05:42
As much as I like carbon its pretty much a ripoff of Hack'd by Geeks


It seems as if a sort of fashion season affects the people involve in selecting colors for upcoming sets and most of the new proposals share the same palette and same concept, that is just boring.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:07:36
i have the curvyness of dsa sa keycaps (havent used them yet, and some of their styles are damn nice tho)

I didn't like them until I tried them and promptly fell in love with SA

Really, man I am afraid of the hit and miss. I could see me hating them, but then again I have no idea. Is your type speed affected?

I've hit several of my peak speeds using sculpted SA - I don't use them anymore because cherry profile is really my favourite (both feels wise and aesthetically)

If you want I'd be happy to send you down a set for you to try out
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:10:00
i have the curvyness of dsa sa keycaps (havent used them yet, and some of their styles are damn nice tho)

I didn't like them until I tried them and promptly fell in love with SA

Really, man I am afraid of the hit and miss. I could see me hating them, but then again I have no idea. Is your type speed affected?

I've hit several of my peak speeds using sculpted SA - I don't use them anymore because cherry profile is really my favourite (both feels wise and aesthetically)

If you want I'd be happy to send you down a set for you to try out


Australians team-back.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:12:47
i have the curvyness of dsa sa keycaps (havent used them yet, and some of their styles are damn nice tho)

I didn't like them until I tried them and promptly fell in love with SA

Really, man I am afraid of the hit and miss. I could see me hating them, but then again I have no idea. Is your type speed affected?

I've hit several of my peak speeds using sculpted SA - I don't use them anymore because cherry profile is really my favourite (both feels wise and aesthetically)

If you want I'd be happy to send you down a set for you to try out

I'm starting to feel myself lean away from my Octagon with SA these days. The monster 11 degree incline + SA profile caps have never really bothered me, but after typing on the Hammer case with a 7-8 degree incline and Alps profile caps, I'm finding that I prefer that a bit over the Octagon with SA. 
 
It might be this stupid RSI on my right thumb that is still healing (I hope) that makes it more annoying to type on the Octagon, I dunno!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:16:34
i have the curvyness of dsa sa keycaps (havent used them yet, and some of their styles are damn nice tho)

I didn't like them until I tried them and promptly fell in love with SA



Really, man I am afraid of the hit and miss. I could see me hating them, but then again I have no idea. Is your type speed affected?

I've hit several of my peak speeds using sculpted SA - I don't use them anymore because cherry profile is really my favourite (both feels wise and aesthetically)

If you want I'd be happy to send you down a set for you to try out

I'm starting to feel myself lean away from my Octagon with SA these days. The monster 11 degree incline + SA profile caps have never really bothered me, but after typing on the Hammer case with a 7-8 degree incline and Alps profile caps, I'm finding that I prefer that a bit over the Octagon with SA. 
 
It might be this stupid RSI on my right thumb that is still healing (I hope) that makes it more annoying to type on the Octagon, I dunno!


Try some Cherry profile keys on your Octagon and use some support under its front to lowered its angle to check if the inclination and the profile of the caps are causing you the RSI. In my experience zero inclination makes the best for typing and for ergonomics.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:17:44
i have the curvyness of dsa sa keycaps (havent used them yet, and some of their styles are damn nice tho)

I didn't like them until I tried them and promptly fell in love with SA

Really, man I am afraid of the hit and miss. I could see me hating them, but then again I have no idea. Is your type speed affected?

I've hit several of my peak speeds using sculpted SA - I don't use them anymore because cherry profile is really my favourite (both feels wise and aesthetically)

If you want I'd be happy to send you down a set for you to try out

I'm starting to feel myself lean away from my Octagon with SA these days. The monster 11 degree incline + SA profile caps have never really bothered me, but after typing on the Hammer case with a 7-8 degree incline and Alps profile caps, I'm finding that I prefer that a bit over the Octagon with SA. 
 
It might be this stupid RSI on my right thumb that is still healing (I hope) that makes it more annoying to type on the Octagon, I dunno!

Yeah I don't think SA works too well when you've already got such a steep angle
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:20:08
Try some Cherry profile keys on your Octagon and use some support under its front to lowered its angle to check if the inclination and the profile of the caps are causing you the RSI. In my experience zero inclination makes the best for typing and for ergonomics.

The RSI came into being suddenly one day, but not even with the Octagon! It was when I was lazily typing while laying down in bed with my laptop in front of me. Typing in a prone position is probably the dumbest thing, but yep.

I was using my Infinity keyboard and pretty bad form, and then suddenly I get this odd annoying pain in my thumb. Gah, stupid me. :( I hope it goes away! It's been about a month and a week now. 

The Infinity keyboard has a very harsh type feel, which is actually kind of pleasant until you realize it's not being nice to your joints and muscles. :P The bent case, for some reason, creates a type feel that is stiffer than anything I've ever tried.

Yeah I don't think SA works too well when you've already got such a steep angle

Yeah, I heard it works best on a flat board, but it was more of a thematic choice for the Octagon, as I felt the Jukebox set would fit it really nicely. For the second Octagon, I'm definitely going with Cherry profile thanks to GMK SNES being around the corner. That should be perfect.  SA hasn't really bothered me though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:25:56
Ahem, wth. Sorry for this post.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:29:58
You may even try negative angles, these may be one the best known unpopular keyboard opinions; but, negative angles are actually better for ergonomics. I healed myself from an incipient RSI just by tilting my keyboard front up.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:58:10
You may even try negative angles, these may be one the best known unpopular keyboard opinions; but, negative angles are actually better for ergonomics. I healed myself from an incipient RSI just by tilting my keyboard front up.

Thanks ideus. I have heard of that and actually thought positive incline was stupid until I tried it and got used to it. None of my boards aside from my OG mechanical, my Rapoo KX, would be too feasible with a negative tilt.

Ironically enough, since it's PCB-mount, has ergo clears at 62g, and has o-rings installed, it's probably the most gentle of any of my keyboards in terms of shock to one's joints. I still have a special place in my heart for this one. Was one of the first boards I modded. :)

It is really easy to NOT bottom out on the Octagon though, with these tall SA caps. Even if I do bottom out, it's very light.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sircheddar on Thu, 17 December 2015, 08:06:37
Yeah, that too, sand which style cases.. I love the plank but whenever I see one in a sandwich it just makes me sad
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SploogeFactory on Thu, 17 December 2015, 17:58:24
You may even try negative angles, these may be one the best known unpopular keyboard opinions; but, negative angles are actually better for ergonomics. I healed myself from an incipient RSI just by tilting my keyboard front up.

Glad to hear you are no longer suffering from RSI man, it's a *****, I haven't dealt with it myself but I've had similar aches related to restricted movement, no fun.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 17 December 2015, 18:10:46
You may even try negative angles, these may be one the best known unpopular keyboard opinions; but, negative angles are actually better for ergonomics. I healed myself from an incipient RSI just by tilting my keyboard front up.

Glad to hear you are no longer suffering from RSI man, it's a *****, I haven't dealt with it myself but I've had similar aches related to restricted movement, no fun.

It is a pain in the ass, or thumb rather. Ugh, once it heals, I'm never going to be so careless again. :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SploogeFactory on Thu, 17 December 2015, 18:12:16
You may even try negative angles, these may be one the best known unpopular keyboard opinions; but, negative angles are actually better for ergonomics. I healed myself from an incipient RSI just by tilting my keyboard front up.

Glad to hear you are no longer suffering from RSI man, it's a *****, I haven't dealt with it myself but I've had similar aches related to restricted movement, no fun.

It is a pain in the ass, or thumb rather. Ugh, once it heals, I'm never going to be so careless again. :-X

Good luck, bro!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Sun, 20 December 2015, 23:29:16
It is a pain in the ass, or thumb rather. Ugh, once it heals, I'm never going to be so careless again. :-X
RSI sucks!  I hope you heal soon.  May want to stop using your thumb completely for a while.  I got a splint for my entire forearm from cvs the last time I had an RSI and kept it on 24x7 for about 3 days and it helped the healing tremendously, but mine was literally in my wrist.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 21 December 2015, 00:03:55
It is a pain in the ass, or thumb rather. Ugh, once it heals, I'm never going to be so careless again. :-X
RSI sucks!  I hope you heal soon.  May want to stop using your thumb completely for a while.  I got a splint for my entire forearm from cvs the last time I had an RSI and kept it on 24x7 for about 3 days and it helped the healing tremendously, but mine was literally in my wrist.


Thanks! I do my best to resist my muscle memory and use the space bar with my left thumb as opposed to my right. I have used a brace for my thumb and just recently given some deep tissue massages to my thumb, as funky as that sounds--that helped immensely. It feels like it's healed quite a bit already. I tend to use a heating pad every night in bed to help soothe it. I looked up a few tips for healing RSI, and by far, the "doorway stretches," pretty much just stretching your arms out in a T-shape with fingers spread wide. You can feel the tingle in your fingers. That and the massage have really helped a crazy amount, more than the heat or brace have, imo.

I definitely want to beat this dumb RSI. I've heard of horror stories, so I'm doing my best to treat it!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Mon, 21 December 2015, 04:23:10
It is a pain in the ass, or thumb rather. Ugh, once it heals, I'm never going to be so careless again. :-X
RSI sucks!  I hope you heal soon.  May want to stop using your thumb completely for a while.  I got a splint for my entire forearm from cvs the last time I had an RSI and kept it on 24x7 for about 3 days and it helped the healing tremendously, but mine was literally in my wrist.


Thanks! I do my best to resist my muscle memory and use the space bar with my left thumb as opposed to my right. I have used a brace for my thumb and just recently given some deep tissue massages to my thumb, as funky as that sounds--that helped immensely. It feels like it's healed quite a bit already. I tend to use a heating pad every night in bed to help soothe it. I looked up a few tips for healing RSI, and by far, the "doorway stretches," pretty much just stretching your arms out in a T-shape with fingers spread wide. You can feel the tingle in your fingers. That and the massage have really helped a crazy amount, more than the heat or brace have, imo.

I definitely want to beat this dumb RSI. I've heard of horror stories, so I'm doing my best to treat it!
Sounds like you're definitely on the right track!  I wouldn't expect anything less from a GH'er--we seem to do the most in depth research on whatever topic is in front of us.  :thumb:

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Roibhilin on Mon, 21 December 2015, 10:47:55
why is there Discourse in a thread made exclusively for unpopular keyboard opinions? like, you're not going to convince someone to actually like SA profile when they say they dislike it (etc.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 21 December 2015, 11:13:32
why is there Discourse in a thread made exclusively for unpopular keyboard opinions? like, you're not going to convince someone to actually like SA profile when they say they dislike it (etc.)

Because the internet?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 21 December 2015, 11:44:50
why is there Discourse in a thread made exclusively for unpopular keyboard opinions? like, you're not going to convince someone to actually like SA profile when they say they dislike it (etc.)

Because the internet?


Is like the sink, there is always a place that even dirty dishes can go in.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:25:05
Unpopular opinion?

I like linears more than tactile switches.

I do love ergo clears, but not as much as vintage blacks. The same goes for Alps. I like linears more than tactiles by far in the Alps world. Alps is the only switch family where I actually enjoy clicky switches, though I want to try MX vintage whites.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pandaaqq on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:34:45
If you can't type more than 110-120 WPM in your native language you shouldn't talk about typing speeds on different keyboards/switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:40:41
If you can't type more than 110-120 WPM in your native language you shouldn't talk about typing speeds on different keyboards/switches.

What do you mean by that? 110-120 WPM is extremely fast.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pandaaqq on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:45:51
If you can't type more than 110-120 WPM in your native language you shouldn't talk about typing speeds on different keyboards/switches.

What do you mean by that? 110-120 WPM is extremely fast.

If you're slower than that it's not your keyboard slowing you down but you yourself.
As a native german speaker I can still get 100-120 WPM (depending on the texts, if they use words I barely use/know I make more mistakes) on typeracer (English texts).
No matter what keyboard I use.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:49:44
lol linkbane v2?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:50:41
If you can't type more than 110-120 WPM in your native language you shouldn't talk about typing speeds on different keyboards/switches.

I agree with that to some extent. I don't think my keyboard makes me type faster, that's definitely a me problem, but it does make typing more ergonomic, which allows me to type faster for longer.
A feel the same way about gaming, however, where people claim that the right keyboard improves their gaming. You have to be goddamn good at a game and have pretty ****ing fast reaction times to have your peripherals make a difference.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: retrochick on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:51:11
If you can't type more than 110-120 WPM in your native language you shouldn't talk about typing speeds on different keyboards/switches.

What do you mean by that? 110-120 WPM is extremely fast.

If you're slower than that it's not your keyboard slowing you down but you yourself.
As a native german speaker I can still get 100-120 WPM (depending on the texts, if they use words I barely use/know I make more mistakes) on typeracer (English texts).
No matter what keyboard I use.

I find your statements...









unpopular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:51:32
If you can't type more than 110-120 WPM in your native language you shouldn't talk about typing speeds on different keyboards/switches.

I agree with that to some extent. I don't think my keyboard makes me type faster, that's definitely a me problem, but it does make typing more ergonomic, which allows me to type faster for longer.
A feel the same way about gaming, however, where people claim that the right keyboard improves their gaming. You have to be goddamn good at a game and have pretty ****ing fast reaction times to have your peripherals make a difference.

Makes a difference in my gaming :\ typing too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:51:39
If you can't type more than 110-120 WPM in your native language you shouldn't talk about typing speeds on different keyboards/switches.

What do you mean by that? 110-120 WPM is extremely fast.

If you're slower than that it's not your keyboard slowing you down but you yourself.
As a native german speaker I can still get 100-120 WPM (depending on the texts, if they use words I barely use/know I make more mistakes) on typeracer (English texts).
No matter what keyboard I use.

I don't know, I've typed on Cherry blues and greens and my WPM is a bit slower on greens because the actuation force is quite a bit heavier. The first 30 words or so are no problem, but after that my fingers start to get a little fatigued. I couldn't imagine typing all day on the greens without losing a considerable amount of speed and accuracy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:53:13
If you can't type more than 110-120 WPM in your native language you shouldn't talk about typing speeds on different keyboards/switches.

I agree with that to some extent. I don't think my keyboard makes me type faster, that's definitely a me problem, but it does make typing more ergonomic, which allows me to type faster for longer.
A feel the same way about gaming, however, where people claim that the right keyboard improves their gaming. You have to be goddamn good at a game and have pretty ****ing fast reaction times to have your peripherals make a difference.

Makes a difference in my gaming :\ typing too.

Well typing that's obvious because you type fast a ****. I guess perhaps it can make a difference gaming, but there are certainly other much more effective ways to improve your gaming than a keyboard. I don't think it makes the difference between winning and losing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pandaaqq on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:54:45
The difference is minor and ~100wpm should always be possible.

Of course it can be more comfortable to type on certain switches, but that doesn't make a major difference in short WPM tests.
For example, on black switches my fingers actually hurt after long gaming/typing sessions (~8 hours). I type the fastest/most error free on blue switches, but I don't suddenly type 20 WPM faster/slower on a different switch.
I play games a ton, I used to play Dota 2 competitive and ****ting up CS:GO as a global now, a keyboard makes literally no difference in gaming. Only switch I never liked were black ones, as I mentioned already, my fingers just started to hurt after long gaming sessions
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:55:01
If you can't type more than 110-120 WPM in your native language you shouldn't talk about typing speeds on different keyboards/switches.

I agree with that to some extent. I don't think my keyboard makes me type faster, that's definitely a me problem, but it does make typing more ergonomic, which allows me to type faster for longer.
A feel the same way about gaming, however, where people claim that the right keyboard improves their gaming. You have to be goddamn good at a game and have pretty ****ing fast reaction times to have your peripherals make a difference.

Makes a difference in my gaming :\ typing too.

Well typing that's obvious because you type fast a ****. I guess perhaps it can make a difference gaming, but there are certainly other much more effective ways to improve your gaming than a keyboard. I don't think it makes the difference between winning and losing.

One time MaSa and I were out partying or something and we stayed over at a friend's place and he had to use my GON for some online tournament and when he lost he blamed my keyboard :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:56:05
The difference is minor and ~100wpm should always be possible.

Of course it can be more comfortable to type on certain switches, but that doesn't make a major difference in short WPM tests.
For example, on black switches my fingers actually hurt after long gaming/typing sessions (~8 hours). I type the fastest/most error free on blue switches, but I don't suddenly type 20 WPM faster/slower on a different switch.
I play games a ton, I used to play Dota 2 competitive and ****ting up CS:GO as a global now, a keyboard makes literally no difference in gaming. Only switch I never liked were black ones, as I mentioned already, my fingers just started to hurt after long gaming sessions

But I hit 145~ on vintage blacks 155~ on blues and 160+ on my clears :\ definitely a 20wpm difference for me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pandaaqq on Mon, 21 December 2015, 13:01:19
I would argue that's more being used to something than the switch itself. Besides that, you're faster than what I mentioned anyway.
If you only type 60-80 WPM no keyboard in the world is going to help you. Your fingers are just slow and you don't type fast.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 21 December 2015, 13:03:52
Oh well yeah they're not gonna make you type faster... I don't think that's too unpopular of an opinion. but they do help ^^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 21 December 2015, 13:05:30
What makes you faster or slower is the practice and a good technique, not the keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sniping on Mon, 21 December 2015, 16:46:47
lol linkbane v2?

most definitely
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 21 December 2015, 16:50:15
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)

There's no room for your common sense around here.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 21 December 2015, 18:19:03
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)

There's no room for your common sense around here.  :p


In particular on pricing of keyboard stuff, for Topre keyboards for example.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 21 December 2015, 20:17:52
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)

There's no room for your common sense around here.  :p


In particular on pricing of keyboard stuff, for Topre keyboards for example.

I understand a brand name and build quality can go a long way with keyboards, but Topre seems unreasonably expensive to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 21 December 2015, 20:40:08
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)

There's no room for your common sense around here.  :p


In particular on pricing of keyboard stuff, for Topre keyboards for example.

I understand a brand name and build quality can go a long way with keyboards, but Topre seems unreasonably expensive to me.

Do you think it's because they've cornered the market or the actual cost of the technology?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 21 December 2015, 21:25:15
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)

There's no room for your common sense around here.  :p


In particular on pricing of keyboard stuff, for Topre keyboards for example.

I understand a brand name and build quality can go a long way with keyboards, but Topre seems unreasonably expensive to me.

Do you think it's because they've cornered the market or the actual cost of the technology?


Technology: Rubber domes with springs? How expensive are they?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 21 December 2015, 21:54:39
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)

There's no room for your common sense around here.  :p


In particular on pricing of keyboard stuff, for Topre keyboards for example.

I understand a brand name and build quality can go a long way with keyboards, but Topre seems unreasonably expensive to me.

Do you think it's because they've cornered the market or the actual cost of the technology?


Technology: Rubber domes with springs? How expensive are they?

:facepalm:  Not sure if you're joking or not, but the whole capacitive sensing thing isn't exactly trivial.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MAR82 on Tue, 22 December 2015, 02:46:08
More
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)

There's no room for your common sense around here.  :p


In particular on pricing of keyboard stuff, for Topre keyboards for example.

I understand a brand name and build quality can go a long way with keyboards, but Topre seems unreasonably expensive to me.

Do you think it's because they've cornered the market or the actual cost of the technology?


Technology: Rubber domes with springs? How expensive are they?

:facepalm:  Not sure if you're joking or not, but the whole capacitive sensing thing isn't exactly trivial.


How did we get from keyboard lighting to Topre pricing?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/tessieroo/Gifs/Confused_cat_gif.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 22 December 2015, 03:07:45
More
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)

There's no room for your common sense around here.  :p


In particular on pricing of keyboard stuff, for Topre keyboards for example.

I understand a brand name and build quality can go a long way with keyboards, but Topre seems unreasonably expensive to me.

Do you think it's because they've cornered the market or the actual cost of the technology?


Technology: Rubber domes with springs? How expensive are they?

:facepalm:  Not sure if you're joking or not, but the whole capacitive sensing thing isn't exactly trivial.


How did we get from keyboard lighting to Topre pricing?

Show Image
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/tessieroo/Gifs/Confused_cat_gif.gif)


Sir, 'twas a livingspeedbump red herring!  :llama:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Tue, 22 December 2015, 11:51:19
I can tell the difference between original cherry keycaps and modern GMK...and...I prefer original cherry a lot more :(

I guess that might not be an unpopular opinion, but it certainly limits my options for colors. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 22 December 2015, 11:58:39
I can tell the difference between original cherry keycaps and modern GMK...and...I prefer original cherry a lot more :(

I guess that might not be an unpopular opinion, but it certainly limits my options for colors. :p


I have the same preference, and the wide open choices of beige and black key caps. But now with some upcoming modifiers sets ans single keys it may get a bit better.


What exactly do you feel different?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Ralph Furley on Tue, 22 December 2015, 12:35:59
Artisan keycaps are a danger for fingertips, reduce typing speed and negate the benefits of mechanical switches. Artisan keycaps are the cause of expensive keyboards mistakenly being given to toddlers as toys. Artisan keycaps subvert the parameters of craft art in that the role of the viewer is to impose meaning whereas function is relegated to the nether regions of the average.

As a somewhat rebellious teen I myself had a novelty escape key which featured the likeness of Al Gore. It was a complete disaster. I could never get any work done as co-students were constantly pressing my escape key and exclaiming "I just invented the internet." I would express frustration and despair but they would counter "That's an inconvenient truth!"

Also, someone please make a novlelty Caps Lock key that is solid underneath and can't be pressed down. I know it would be symbolic of modern unions in the workplace but I digress in the interest of not smothering my humourous suggestion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 22 December 2015, 13:13:19
Backlighting a keyboard makes as much sense as embedding LEDs in your car's steering wheel.

I think it would be more like having them on the car's dashboard

THIS. This is an amazing analogy.

And, oddly enough, every car dashboard has backlighting...  ;)

There's no room for your common sense around here.  :p


In particular on pricing of keyboard stuff, for Topre keyboards for example.

I understand a brand name and build quality can go a long way with keyboards, but Topre seems unreasonably expensive to me.

Do you think it's because they've cornered the market or the actual cost of the technology?


Technology: Rubber domes with springs? How expensive are they?

:facepalm:  Not sure if you're joking or not, but the whole capacitive sensing thing isn't exactly trivial.

Isn't the technology associated with it like 20-25 years old though?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 22 December 2015, 14:18:14
Technology: Rubber domes with springs? How expensive are they?

:facepalm:  Not sure if you're joking or not, but the whole capacitive sensing thing isn't exactly trivial.

Isn't the technology associated with it like 20-25 years old though?

It depends what technology you refer to.  Capacitive sensing surely has been around for awhile, but I'd imagine that there's some algorithms and coding necessary to make the keyboard operate smoothly (as opposed to the relatively simple anti-bounce that regular switches require) - this is something they will expect to be paid back for.  Also, if Topre manufactures to tighter tolerances than other manufacturers, one would expect them to charge for that as well.  I obviously have no clue how they figure their pricing, I'm just listing possible options for high prices on Topre boards.  :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keshley on Tue, 22 December 2015, 17:57:29
The age of a technology doesn't always equate to the technology being much cheaper to produce as it ages. Some technologies require higher amounts of precision. The more precision that's required, the more expensive it is to produce, even if the technology is 50 years old.

Now, I have no idea if a Topre PCB is more expensive to produce than a discrete switch PCB, but since Topre is made in Japan, and most keyboard PCBs are made in China, that's a factor as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 22 December 2015, 20:25:18
Technology: Rubber domes with springs? How expensive are they?

:facepalm:  Not sure if you're joking or not, but the whole capacitive sensing thing isn't exactly trivial.

Isn't the technology associated with it like 20-25 years old though?

It depends what technology you refer to.  Capacitive sensing surely has been around for awhile, but I'd imagine that there's some algorithms and coding necessary to make the keyboard operate smoothly (as opposed to the relatively simple anti-bounce that regular switches require) - this is something they will expect to be paid back for.  Also, if Topre manufactures to tighter tolerances than other manufacturers, one would expect them to charge for that as well.  I obviously have no clue how they figure their pricing, I'm just listing possible options for high prices on Topre boards.  :P

All of that sounds about right, it just seems like after 20ish years they would've made back any costs they might've had for R&D, coding, algorithms, and other costs.  Even so, if you can charge a premium for something and people will happily buy it even at the higher price, the obvious business decision is to keep charging the premium price until people are unwilling to pay it anymore.

The age of a technology doesn't always equate to the technology being much cheaper to produce as it ages. Some technologies require higher amounts of precision. The more precision that's required, the more expensive it is to produce, even if the technology is 50 years old.

Now, I have no idea if a Topre PCB is more expensive to produce than a discrete switch PCB, but since Topre is made in Japan, and most keyboard PCBs are made in China, that's a factor as well.

Well, generally speaking, technology tends to follow a formula of having a high price at release with a decline in price as time goes by, with another spike in price if the tech isn't produced near as much e.g. DDR2 RAM vs. DDR3 RAM.  That obviously doesn't mean everything needs to, but I honestly can't think of a single thing tech related that has stayed steady in pricing.

The PCB does seem intriguing though, and I would be interested to see if a substantial part of the higher price is related to that.  Making something in Japan vs. China would definitely result in a price increase but how much that is I wouldn't expect anyone to know except a handful of manufacturers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 22 December 2015, 20:27:06
I honestly can't think of a single thing tech related that has stayed steady in pricing.

Ever bought a TI calculator?  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Tue, 22 December 2015, 21:10:31
I can tell the difference between original cherry keycaps and modern GMK...and...I prefer original cherry a lot more :(

I guess that might not be an unpopular opinion, but it certainly limits my options for colors. :p


I have the same preference, and the wide open choices of beige and black key caps. But now with some upcoming modifiers sets ans single keys it may get a bit better.


What exactly do you feel different?

For reference, compare to CMYW and a red esc; I can tell the thickness of both caps apart, OG is more consistent throughout, where GMK is a bit sharp on the edges; the texture on GMK is rougher than my og dolch set, the pitch is just a touch higher when the sound resonates from the upstroke, all in all its very little things. Long live original beige!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 22 December 2015, 21:28:37
I can tell the difference between original cherry keycaps and modern GMK...and...I prefer original cherry a lot more :(

I guess that might not be an unpopular opinion, but it certainly limits my options for colors. :p


I have the same preference, and the wide open choices of beige and black key caps. But now with some upcoming modifiers sets ans single keys it may get a bit better.


What exactly do you feel different?

For reference, compare to CMYW and a red esc; I can tell the thickness of both caps apart, OG is more consistent throughout, where GMK is a bit sharp on the edges; the texture on GMK is rougher than my og dolch set, the pitch is just a touch higher when the sound resonates from the upstroke, all in all its very little things. Long live original beige!


I have not had any full GMK made set yet, only OG Cherry so I cannot tell, but I noticed an slight difference in thickness with Ivan's purple modifiers that I had, but I sold them because I prefer the modifiers with legends and icons, and Ivan made these with icons only.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 22 December 2015, 22:37:41
I honestly can't think of a single thing tech related that has stayed steady in pricing.

Ever bought a TI calculator?  :))

I was so mad when I found out I had to spend $125 of the money I had saved up over the summer on a damn calculator.  I had almost enough for the Autococker I had my eyes on and that set me back months, but being able to download and play games on the calculator made the pain a little easier.

But I wonder why they can charge almost the same price for something so outdated?  I'm assuming they probably hold a massive chunk of the graphing calculator market so that probably is a big part of it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Tue, 22 December 2015, 22:45:35
I honestly can't think of a single thing tech related that has stayed steady in pricing.

Ever bought a TI calculator?  :))

I was so mad when I found out I had to spend $125 of the money I had saved up over the summer on a damn calculator.  I had almost enough for the Autococker I had my eyes on and that set me back months, but being able to download and play games on the calculator made the pain a little easier.

But I wonder why they can charge almost the same price for something so outdated?  I'm assuming they probably hold a massive chunk of the graphing calculator market so that probably is a big part of it.
It's not a good idea for school/ test taking use, but wabbit emu is a thing for android phones (not sure about iOS), and it's free with ads or I think $4 for the ad free version.

I still prefer a physical calculator, but it is pretty cool :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 22 December 2015, 22:56:23
I honestly can't think of a single thing tech related that has stayed steady in pricing.

Ever bought a TI calculator?  :))

I was so mad when I found out I had to spend $125 of the money I had saved up over the summer on a damn calculator.  I had almost enough for the Autococker I had my eyes on and that set me back months, but being able to download and play games on the calculator made the pain a little easier.

But I wonder why they can charge almost the same price for something so outdated?  I'm assuming they probably hold a massive chunk of the graphing calculator market so that probably is a big part of it.
It's not a good idea for school/ test taking use, but wabbit emu is a thing for android phones (not sure about iOS), and it's free with ads or I think $4 for the ad free version.

I still prefer a physical calculator, but it is pretty cool :P

I was wondering if there was a phone app that can do most of the stuff that a graphing calculator can.  Do a lot of schools allow phones in class and/or during tests? 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Tue, 22 December 2015, 23:05:48
I honestly can't think of a single thing tech related that has stayed steady in pricing.

Ever bought a TI calculator?  :))

I was so mad when I found out I had to spend $125 of the money I had saved up over the summer on a damn calculator.  I had almost enough for the Autococker I had my eyes on and that set me back months, but being able to download and play games on the calculator made the pain a little easier.

But I wonder why they can charge almost the same price for something so outdated?  I'm assuming they probably hold a massive chunk of the graphing calculator market so that probably is a big part of it.
It's not a good idea for school/ test taking use, but wabbit emu is a thing for android phones (not sure about iOS), and it's free with ads or I think $4 for the ad free version.

I still prefer a physical calculator, but it is pretty cool :P

I was wondering if there was a phone app that can do most of the stuff that a graphing calculator can.  Do a lot of schools allow phones in class and/or during tests?
My physics and math teacher allow it in class, just not during tests. I only use it when I forgot my calculator/I just don't want to get it out because lazy :P It's a pretty nice thing to have, since it exactly emulates a TI 84, which most people are used to using.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 22 December 2015, 23:09:27
unpopular calculator opinions
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 22 December 2015, 23:23:10
unpopular calculator opinions

Apparently you can buy a keyboard to attach to the calculator on Amazon for $10.

http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE (http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 22 December 2015, 23:23:53
unpopular calculator opinions

Apparently you can buy a keyboard to attach to the calculator on Amazon for $10.

http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE (http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE)

that's pretty cool actually.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 23 December 2015, 06:19:50
unpopular calculator opinions

Apparently you can buy a keyboard to attach to the calculator on Amazon for $10.

http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE (http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE)

That would have made writing code on the TI-84 a lot easier.   :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 23 December 2015, 09:26:58
I was an HP calculator's collector for years. Is that unpopular?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 23 December 2015, 09:27:58
I was an HP calculator's collector for years. Is that unpopular?

The only other person I know that has an HP calculator is my dad. I would say "yes", it's unpopular. I'm sorry to break this news to you.  :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 23 December 2015, 09:29:24
I was an HP calculator's collector for years. Is that unpopular?

The only other person I know that has an HP calculator is my dad. I would say "yes", it's unpopular. I'm sorry to break this news to you.  :(


Now I feel proud of it. Thank you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: drewba on Wed, 23 December 2015, 09:31:05
Artisan keycaps are a danger for fingertips, reduce typing speed and negate the benefits of mechanical switches. Artisan keycaps are the cause of expensive keyboards mistakenly being given to toddlers as toys. Artisan keycaps subvert the parameters of craft art in that the role of the viewer is to impose meaning whereas function is relegated to the nether regions of the average.

As a somewhat rebellious teen I myself had a novelty escape key which featured the likeness of Al Gore. It was a complete disaster. I could never get any work done as co-students were constantly pressing my escape key and exclaiming "I just invented the internet." I would express frustration and despair but they would counter "That's an inconvenient truth!"

Also, someone please make a novellty Caps Lock key that is solid underneath and can't be pressed down. I know it would be symbolic of modern unions in the workplace but I digress in the interest of not smothering my humourous suggestion.

Well done
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 23 December 2015, 09:42:38
Artisan keycaps are a danger for fingertips, reduce typing speed and negate the benefits of mechanical switches. Artisan keycaps are the cause of expensive keyboards mistakenly being given to toddlers as toys. Artisan keycaps subvert the parameters of craft art in that the role of the viewer is to impose meaning whereas function is relegated to the nether regions of the average.

As a somewhat rebellious teen I myself had a novelty escape key which featured the likeness of Al Gore. It was a complete disaster. I could never get any work done as co-students were constantly pressing my escape key and exclaiming "I just invented the internet." I would express frustration and despair but they would counter "That's an inconvenient truth!"

Also, someone please make a novellty Caps Lock key that is solid underneath and can't be pressed down. I know it would be symbolic of modern unions in the workplace but I digress in the interest of not smothering my humourous suggestion.

Well done

Mr. Furley is all-knowing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: drewba on Wed, 23 December 2015, 09:59:31
Artisan keycaps are a danger for fingertips, reduce typing speed and negate the benefits of mechanical switches. Artisan keycaps are the cause of expensive keyboards mistakenly being given to toddlers as toys. Artisan keycaps subvert the parameters of craft art in that the role of the viewer is to impose meaning whereas function is relegated to the nether regions of the average.

As a somewhat rebellious teen I myself had a novelty escape key which featured the likeness of Al Gore. It was a complete disaster. I could never get any work done as co-students were constantly pressing my escape key and exclaiming "I just invented the internet." I would express frustration and despair but they would counter "That's an inconvenient truth!"

Also, someone please make a novellty Caps Lock key that is solid underneath and can't be pressed down. I know it would be symbolic of modern unions in the workplace but I digress in the interest of not smothering my humourous suggestion.

Well done

Mr. Furley is all-knowing.

Talk about an unpopular opinion! I kid, I kid, Don Knotts for pres!

RIP
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 23 December 2015, 11:58:47
Artisan keycaps are a danger for fingertips, reduce typing speed and negate the benefits of mechanical switches. Artisan keycaps are the cause of expensive keyboards mistakenly being given to toddlers as toys. Artisan keycaps subvert the parameters of craft art in that the role of the viewer is to impose meaning whereas function is relegated to the nether regions of the average.

As a somewhat rebellious teen I myself had a novelty escape key which featured the likeness of Al Gore. It was a complete disaster. I could never get any work done as co-students were constantly pressing my escape key and exclaiming "I just invented the internet." I would express frustration and despair but they would counter "That's an inconvenient truth!"

Also, someone please make a novellty Caps Lock key that is solid underneath and can't be pressed down. I know it would be symbolic of modern unions in the workplace but I digress in the interest of not smothering my humourous suggestion.

Well done

Mr. Furley is all-knowing.

Talk about an unpopular opinion! I kid, I kid, Don Knotts for pres!

RIP


Who cares about artisan's, they are not actual key caps, they are just adorns, that happen to have a stem to fit on keyboards, overrated pieces of plastics, that some are as ugly as they can be. Whose prices have been artificially inflated in a fictitious economy that does not have anything to do with keyboard functionality.


Is this unpopular enough as opinion? LOL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 23 December 2015, 12:01:32
Artisan keycaps are a danger for fingertips, reduce typing speed and negate the benefits of mechanical switches. Artisan keycaps are the cause of expensive keyboards mistakenly being given to toddlers as toys. Artisan keycaps subvert the parameters of craft art in that the role of the viewer is to impose meaning whereas function is relegated to the nether regions of the average.

As a somewhat rebellious teen I myself had a novelty escape key which featured the likeness of Al Gore. It was a complete disaster. I could never get any work done as co-students were constantly pressing my escape key and exclaiming "I just invented the internet." I would express frustration and despair but they would counter "That's an inconvenient truth!"

Also, someone please make a novellty Caps Lock key that is solid underneath and can't be pressed down. I know it would be symbolic of modern unions in the workplace but I digress in the interest of not smothering my humourous suggestion.

Well done

Mr. Furley is all-knowing.

Talk about an unpopular opinion! I kid, I kid, Don Knotts for pres!

RIP


Who cares about artisan's, they are not actual key caps, they are just adorns, that happen to have a stem to fit on keyboards, overrated pieces of plastics, that some are as ugly as they can be. Whose prices have been artificially inflated in a fictitious economy that does not have anything to do with keyboard functionality.


Is this unpopular enough as opinion? LOL

Sorry, but this is the opinions thread and I'm not seeing an opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 23 December 2015, 12:12:46
unpopular calculator opinions

Apparently you can buy a keyboard to attach to the calculator on Amazon for $10.

http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE (http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE)

that's pretty cool actually.

I haven't found many good pictures of the cord that connects the keyboard to the calculator but you could possibly rig something up to allow you to connect something like a Pok3r or other 60% board to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Wed, 23 December 2015, 17:20:05
The Miami colorway is hideous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Wed, 23 December 2015, 18:50:58
The Miami colorway is hideous.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/4d/85/95/4d85951d62b75a6b082124de1f4e3247.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DreaMagine on Wed, 23 December 2015, 19:27:49
The Miami colorway is hideous.

I'd agree, way too bright and in-your-face. Subdued colorways are best!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 23 December 2015, 19:30:12
The Miami colorway is hideous.

Classic beige is the only colorway that should ever be on a keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Wed, 23 December 2015, 21:07:52
The Miami colorway is hideous.

Classic beige is the only colorway that should ever be on a keyboard.

My boy.  :cool:

P.S. Actually, I like Sifo's Gon.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 23 December 2015, 21:44:17
Artisan keycaps are a danger for fingertips, reduce typing speed and negate the benefits of mechanical switches. Artisan keycaps are the cause of expensive keyboards mistakenly being given to toddlers as toys. Artisan keycaps subvert the parameters of craft art in that the role of the viewer is to impose meaning whereas function is relegated to the nether regions of the average.

As a somewhat rebellious teen I myself had a novelty escape key which featured the likeness of Al Gore. It was a complete disaster. I could never get any work done as co-students were constantly pressing my escape key and exclaiming "I just invented the internet." I would express frustration and despair but they would counter "That's an inconvenient truth!"

Also, someone please make a novellty Caps Lock key that is solid underneath and can't be pressed down. I know it would be symbolic of modern unions in the workplace but I digress in the interest of not smothering my humourous suggestion.

Well done

Mr. Furley is all-knowing.

Talk about an unpopular opinion! I kid, I kid, Don Knotts for pres!

RIP


Who cares about artisan's, they are not actual key caps, they are just adorns, that happen to have a stem to fit on keyboards, overrated pieces of plastics, that some are as ugly as they can be. Whose prices have been artificially inflated in a fictitious economy that does not have anything to do with keyboard functionality.


Is this unpopular enough as opinion? LOL

My issue isnt with artisans. Its with how people get full on stupid over them, gang up on each other, argue to no end about pricing and reselling and cloning, etc etc. Its just aggravating to even read.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 23 December 2015, 21:45:50
unpopular calculator opinions

Apparently you can buy a keyboard to attach to the calculator on Amazon for $10.

http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE (http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE)

That would have made writing code on the TI-84 a lot easier.   :))

You mean that would have made playing vs. Bomberman to the kid next to you in class, easier.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 23 December 2015, 21:54:45
unpopular calculator opinions

Apparently you can buy a keyboard to attach to the calculator on Amazon for $10.

http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE (http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE)

That would have made writing code on the TI-84 a lot easier.   :))

You mean that would have made playing vs. Bomberman to the kid next to you in class, easier.  :p

I always had Pokemon and Mario on mine, until the teacher found out and took my calculator and reset it. Jokes on her I went back home afterwards and downloaded it again.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Wed, 23 December 2015, 22:34:51
unpopular calculator opinions

Apparently you can buy a keyboard to attach to the calculator on Amazon for $10.

http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE (http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-Keyboard-Graphing-Calculators/dp/B00007K7JE)

That would have made writing code on the TI-84 a lot easier.   :))

You mean that would have made playing vs. Bomberman to the kid next to you in class, easier.  :p

I always had Pokemon and Mario on mine, until the teacher found out and took my calculator and reset it. Jokes on her I went back home afterwards and downloaded it again.
It's funny, I have a friend who, in our calc class, plays Mario on his. The teacher knows, but loves to mess with him. The first time he could tell he said "You must be making some incredibly complicated calculations there, Tristan!" The entire class went hysterical
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 24 December 2015, 15:06:37
The Miami colorway is hideous.

The colorway or the keyset?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Thu, 24 December 2015, 21:11:07
The Miami colorway is hideous.

The colorway or the keyset?

Pretty much the colorway itself. It reminds me of Grand Theft Auto and violent movies such as Casino or Goodfellas. Also, I'm just not into hot pink and electric blue lol.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SploogeFactory on Thu, 24 December 2015, 21:49:17
The Miami colorway is hideous.

The colorway or the keyset?

Pretty much the colorway itself. It reminds me of Grand Theft Auto and violent movies such as Casino or Goodfellas. Also, I'm just not into hot pink and electric blue lol.

GTA is great, Vice City.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 24 December 2015, 21:52:03
Cherry suck, Gateron good, Topre Best
thats my opinion
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 24 December 2015, 21:55:26
The Miami colorway is hideous.

The colorway or the keyset?

Pretty much the colorway itself. It reminds me of Grand Theft Auto and violent movies such as Casino or Goodfellas. Also, I'm just not into hot pink and electric blue lol.

But GTA:Vice City, Casino, and Goodfellas are all fantastic, so isn't that a good thing?  I can understand not being into the colors though, I'm not the biggest fan but its grown on me a little.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Mon, 28 December 2015, 03:44:52
I think thin caps are great. I can't stand thick caps. They're too thick. Their thickness annoys me. When I'm typing on them, I can just feel how thick they are. They're way too thick. Their thickness is obvious to my plastic-depth-detecting fingers. Anyone else whose fingers can detect the thickness of the plastic they're touching will instantly agree.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 1deeg on Mon, 28 December 2015, 04:13:56
I put SA profile on my Novatouch and hated it. DSA keeps the tactility and sound that I like.
Put it on MX Blue, mediocre as well. I was almost giving up hope for SA but found it was tolerable on my RC-930 :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 28 December 2015, 09:23:57
Cherry suck, Gateron good, Topre Best
thats my opinion

That's a fairly popular opinion. The only cherry's I'll still type on are vintage blacks, other than that it's all gateron for me. Still like some stuff better than topre though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 28 December 2015, 11:54:02
Cherry suck, Gateron good, Topre Best
thats my opinion


Topre are not discrete switches, but instead, they are layers that work together, more similar to rubber dome keyboards in terms of construction, therefore, they cannot be compared with MX type switches. Cherry and Gateron are similar, thus, this is a fairly acceptable match. I do like them both, but I am using modded versions of them, stock reds, browns, blacks and clears do not have the characteristics they come with. The very best part of MX type switches is that you can fine tuning them according with your preferences.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: stelios53 on Mon, 28 December 2015, 17:02:14
1.I like the razer letters on their keyboards
2.I don't really care for backlighting in keyboards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ramnes on Mon, 28 December 2015, 17:08:27
2.I don't really care for backlighting in keyboards

Just like everyone.  :)

1.I like the razer letters on their keyboards

Now THIS is really disruptive.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 28 December 2015, 17:09:09
1.I like the razer letters on their keyboards

Oooh, an actual unpopular opinion.  Nice. 

But you're wrong.  :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 28 December 2015, 17:31:42
The keys ; and ' should be swapped on a standard layout, the ' is used so much more so I don't understand why it requires movement :confused: :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Mon, 28 December 2015, 18:16:52
The keys ; and ' should be swapped on a standard layout, the ' is used so much more so I don't understand why it requires movement :confused: :confused:

but then how will i show that im crying ;_;
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 28 December 2015, 18:43:18
The keys ; and ' should be swapped on a standard layout, the ' is used so much more so I don't understand why it requires movement :confused: :confused:

but then how will i show that im crying ;_;

'_'
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Mon, 28 December 2015, 18:52:42
he looks surprised ;-;
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 28 December 2015, 19:43:09
he looks surprised ;-;

'_'   How could you say such a thing.




LOL, I'm actually giggling out loud at this face, it's just so goofy. :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Roibhilin on Tue, 29 December 2015, 00:20:33
white on black HHKBs dont look that good
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 29 December 2015, 00:39:05
The keys ; and ' should be swapped on a standard layout, the ' is used so much more so I don't understand why it requires movement :confused: :confused:

So much truth
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 29 December 2015, 08:11:13
The keys ; and ' should be swapped on a standard layout, the ' is used so much more so I don't understand why it requires movement ??? ???


This sounds like a very good idea.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Tue, 29 December 2015, 09:04:39
Cherry suck, Gateron good, Topre Best
thats my opinion

That's a fairly popular opinion. The only cherry's I'll still type on are vintage blacks, other than that it's all gateron for me. Still like some stuff better than topre though.
Has anyone tried Topre and really thought that they sucked?

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 29 December 2015, 09:09:17
Cherry suck, Gateron good, Topre Best
thats my opinion

That's a fairly popular opinion. The only cherry's I'll still type on are vintage blacks, other than that it's all gateron for me. Still like some stuff better than topre though.
Has anyone tried Topre and really thought that they sucked?

I didn't like it at first, but it was a brief test at a meetup.  I think I was mostly just unimpressed because it didn't feel like MX and I didn't like that at the time.  Also the price tag.  But after typing on topre for a week or two, it becomes addicting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 29 December 2015, 09:42:17
Cherry suck, Gateron good, Topre Best
thats my opinion

That's a fairly popular opinion. The only cherry's I'll still type on are vintage blacks, other than that it's all gateron for me. Still like some stuff better than topre though.
Has anyone tried Topre and really thought that they sucked?


Considering the hundreds of MX key cap sets sold this year only, there should be a fair amount of people that do prefer MX over Topre, either, due to the feeling, the price or because they like to mod their boards and Topre is sort of limited in that regards. Either, is a fact Topre users are not the majority of keyboard aficionados.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Tue, 29 December 2015, 09:52:08
Cherry suck, Gateron good, Topre Best
thats my opinion

That's a fairly popular opinion. The only cherry's I'll still type on are vintage blacks, other than that it's all gateron for me. Still like some stuff better than topre though.
Has anyone tried Topre and really thought that they sucked?

I didn't like it at first, but it was a brief test at a meetup.  I think I was mostly just unimpressed because it didn't feel like MX and I didn't like that at the time.  Also the price tag.  But after typing on topre for a week or two, it becomes addicting.
Yup. Wasn't love at first sight for me either, buy now I can't live without it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Tue, 29 December 2015, 13:28:29
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Tue, 29 December 2015, 13:54:32
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

Yeah I'm kind of curious to give it ago myself, thinking of picking up an HHKB one of these times.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Tue, 29 December 2015, 14:17:00
My initial thoughts on Topre were "damn, this is a really good rubber dome keyboard."

That's still basically my take on it now. I love using my FC660C.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Tue, 29 December 2015, 14:38:54
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

The funny thing about Topre is you might not like it that much, but it can still manage to ruin Cherry MX switches for you and make them seem gritty and loose.

So then you'll just get a scissor switch and call it a day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Tue, 29 December 2015, 14:42:39
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

The funny thing about Topre is you might not like it that much, but it can still manage to ruin Cherry MX switches for you and make them seem gritty and loose.

So then you'll just get a scissor switch and call it a day.
Coming from buckling springs, everything else already seems gritty and loose.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Tue, 29 December 2015, 14:45:27
ISO is stupid and your argument for smashing a bigger enter key is even more stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 29 December 2015, 15:19:06
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

Yeah I'm kind of curious to give it ago myself, thinking of picking up an HHKB one of these times.

Personally, I prefer heavy switches so I'm not sure if I would like Topre.  My favorites switches that I have used so far are MX Greens and BS, and if the heaviest switches Topre has available are 55g I don't know if they would feel heavy enough for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 29 December 2015, 15:20:51
Unpopular mechanical keyboard opinion, I guess.

I like the Rapoo KX--my first two mechs were these guys and I decked them out.

I like scissor switch laptop keyboards, a lot.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Tue, 29 December 2015, 15:24:19
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

Yeah I'm kind of curious to give it ago myself, thinking of picking up an HHKB one of these times.

Personally, I prefer heavy switches so I'm not sure if I would like Topre.  My favorites switches that I have used so far are MX Greens and BS, and if the heaviest switches Topre has available are 55g I don't know if they would feel heavy enough for me.

Those are my two favorites as well. Yet, I still enjoy typing on my HHKB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Tue, 29 December 2015, 15:43:13
My initial thoughts on Topre were "damn, this is a really good rubber dome keyboard."

That's still basically my take on it now. I love using my FC660C.

This is why I don't want to try a Topre for a while... I like the snap of a rubber dome but I don't want to get into the "is it a torpe or mx stem?" stage. Plus the cost of getting one is ridiculous for the UK :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 29 December 2015, 16:06:51
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

Yeah I'm kind of curious to give it ago myself, thinking of picking up an HHKB one of these times.

Personally, I prefer heavy switches so I'm not sure if I would like Topre.  My favorites switches that I have used so far are MX Greens and BS, and if the heaviest switches Topre has available are 55g I don't know if they would feel heavy enough for me.

Those are my two favorites as well. Yet, I still enjoy typing on my HHKB.

Well, I'm sure I would enjoy typing on Topre regardless, but would I enjoy it as much as Greens or BS is what I wonder.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Tue, 29 December 2015, 16:14:04
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

Yeah I'm kind of curious to give it ago myself, thinking of picking up an HHKB one of these times.

Personally, I prefer heavy switches so I'm not sure if I would like Topre.  My favorites switches that I have used so far are MX Greens and BS, and if the heaviest switches Topre has available are 55g I don't know if they would feel heavy enough for me.

Those are my two favorites as well. Yet, I still enjoy typing on my HHKB.

Well, I'm sure I would enjoy typing on Topre regardless, but would I enjoy it as much as Greens or BS is what I wonder.

There's only one way to find out. (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se08t0)

 :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: smknjoe on Tue, 29 December 2015, 16:15:17
^ yup.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Tue, 29 December 2015, 16:33:57
Quote from: Solo link=topic=65341.msg1988074#msg1988074 date=1451427244[url=http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se08t0
There's only one way to find out.[/url]

 :cool:
At almost $300 for the one they have in stock that's full-size, that's just too steep.  I can have three Ms for that much.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Tue, 29 December 2015, 20:17:43
I think boards like the redscarf that smush everything together look really ugly and cluttered.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 29 December 2015, 20:24:57
cherry is terrible
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 29 December 2015, 20:25:56
cherry is terrible

topre is like touching literal ****

what a disgrace
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Halverson on Tue, 29 December 2015, 21:18:06

cherry is terrible

topre is like touching literal ****

what a disgrace

smh
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 29 December 2015, 21:46:58
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

Yeah I'm kind of curious to give it ago myself, thinking of picking up an HHKB one of these times.

Personally, I prefer heavy switches so I'm not sure if I would like Topre.  My favorites switches that I have used so far are MX Greens and BS, and if the heaviest switches Topre has available are 55g I don't know if they would feel heavy enough for me.

Those are my two favorites as well. Yet, I still enjoy typing on my HHKB.

Well, I'm sure I would enjoy typing on Topre regardless, but would I enjoy it as much as Greens or BS is what I wonder.

There's only one way to find out. (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se08t0)

 :cool:

I've tightened my keyboard allowance up until the tax refund comes, but I already have a deal in place with my wife that she gets a shopping "spree" for whatever the cost of the keyboard (and extras?) might be so I could get Topre but I would really want to test it first.  Is there a Topre switch tester or would I be stuck getting the CM switch tester with the Novatouch switch on it?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Tue, 29 December 2015, 21:59:47
I've tightened my keyboard allowance up until the tax refund comes, but I already have a deal in place with my wife that she gets a shopping "spree" for whatever the cost of the keyboard (and extras?) might be so I could get Topre but I would really want to test it first.  Is there a Topre switch tester or would I be stuck getting the CM switch tester with the Novatouch switch on it?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/55g-Topre-Realforce-Switch-Tester-KEYCHAIN-Keyboard-Key-/272082587370?hash=item3f5962ceea:g:qiUAAOSwNyFWdjjG
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 29 December 2015, 22:03:54
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

Yeah I'm kind of curious to give it ago myself, thinking of picking up an HHKB one of these times.

Personally, I prefer heavy switches so I'm not sure if I would like Topre.  My favorites switches that I have used so far are MX Greens and BS, and if the heaviest switches Topre has available are 55g I don't know if they would feel heavy enough for me.

Those are my two favorites as well. Yet, I still enjoy typing on my HHKB.

Well, I'm sure I would enjoy typing on Topre regardless, but would I enjoy it as much as Greens or BS is what I wonder.

There's only one way to find out. (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se08t0)

 8)

I've tightened my keyboard allowance up until the tax refund comes, but I already have a deal in place with my wife that she gets a shopping "spree" for whatever the cost of the keyboard (and extras?) might be so I could get Topre but I would really want to test it first.  Is there a Topre switch tester or would I be stuck getting the CM switch tester with the Novatouch switch on it?


This image if from page 94 in the "post your topre keyboard" thread, it may be something like a topre tester made of parts harvested from a dying keyboard. There is no logic in having a Topre switch tester because it does not have individual switches, but layers of components that work together as any other rubber dome keyboards. Have you heard of a rubber dome switch tester? I don't think so.


(http://i.imgur.com/6C5IaZ0.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 29 December 2015, 22:13:12
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

Yeah I'm kind of curious to give it ago myself, thinking of picking up an HHKB one of these times.

Personally, I prefer heavy switches so I'm not sure if I would like Topre.  My favorites switches that I have used so far are MX Greens and BS, and if the heaviest switches Topre has available are 55g I don't know if they would feel heavy enough for me.

Those are my two favorites as well. Yet, I still enjoy typing on my HHKB.

Well, I'm sure I would enjoy typing on Topre regardless, but would I enjoy it as much as Greens or BS is what I wonder.

There's only one way to find out. (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se08t0)

 8)

I've tightened my keyboard allowance up until the tax refund comes, but I already have a deal in place with my wife that she gets a shopping "spree" for whatever the cost of the keyboard (and extras?) might be so I could get Topre but I would really want to test it first.  Is there a Topre switch tester or would I be stuck getting the CM switch tester with the Novatouch switch on it?


This image if from page 94 in the "post your topre keyboard" thread, it may be something like a topre tester made of parts harvested from a dying keyboard. There is no logic in having a Topre switch tester because it does not have individual switches, but layers of components that work together as any other rubber dome keyboards. Have you heard of a rubber dome switch tester? I don't think so.


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/6C5IaZ0.png)


Would the keychain tester solo linked prior to your post then not really feel like Topre?  If so, I see no other way to try it than to try one that someone you know has or to just buy a Topre board, which I guess isn't TOO bad since you could probably turn around and sell the board for close to what you paid for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 29 December 2015, 22:17:53
Interesting opinions on Topre.  I'm wondering if I'd like it.  I guess I'll have to find out at the next meetup.  :thumb:

Yeah I'm kind of curious to give it ago myself, thinking of picking up an HHKB one of these times.

Personally, I prefer heavy switches so I'm not sure if I would like Topre.  My favorites switches that I have used so far are MX Greens and BS, and if the heaviest switches Topre has available are 55g I don't know if they would feel heavy enough for me.

Those are my two favorites as well. Yet, I still enjoy typing on my HHKB.

Well, I'm sure I would enjoy typing on Topre regardless, but would I enjoy it as much as Greens or BS is what I wonder.

There's only one way to find out. (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se08t0)

 8)

I've tightened my keyboard allowance up until the tax refund comes, but I already have a deal in place with my wife that she gets a shopping "spree" for whatever the cost of the keyboard (and extras?) might be so I could get Topre but I would really want to test it first.  Is there a Topre switch tester or would I be stuck getting the CM switch tester with the Novatouch switch on it?


This image if from page 94 in the "post your topre keyboard" thread, it may be something like a topre tester made of parts harvested from a dying keyboard. There is no logic in having a Topre switch tester because it does not have individual switches, but layers of components that work together as any other rubber dome keyboards. Have you heard of a rubber dome switch tester? I don't think so.


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/6C5IaZ0.png)


Would the keychain tester solo linked prior to your post then not really feel like Topre?  If so, I see no other way to try it than to try one that someone you know has or to just buy a Topre board, which I guess isn't TOO bad since you could probably turn around and sell the board for close to what you paid for it.


I remember a couple of traveling keyboards, one at GH and other at DT for those that want to try them, you should try to see if someone is doing so still. I have a good friend that lent me his board for a couple of months to try it, I decided that the HHKB is cute, with a nice sound but, otherwise, it is not for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 29 December 2015, 22:59:35
I remember a couple of traveling keyboards, one at GH and other at DT for those that want to try them, you should try to see if someone is doing so still. I have a good friend that lent me his board for a couple of months to try it, I decided that the HHKB is cute, with a nice sound but, otherwise, it is not for me.

That would be cool, I'll look around or maybe just pick up a used one in a couple months.  Thanks for the help
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sintklaas73 on Wed, 30 December 2015, 02:50:05
keyboards with mx browns...why there is no love for them? I like them quite some...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Wed, 30 December 2015, 05:37:19
Unpopular mechanical keyboard opinion, I guess.

I like the Rapoo KX--my first two mechs were these guys and I decked them out.

I like scissor switch laptop keyboards, a lot.

I agree on the scissor switches. At least on a nice laptop keyboard like an older ThinkPad, I know there nothing alike feel wise but i almost like typing on my ThinkPad x100e as much as i do my Cherry blue board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 30 December 2015, 10:00:35
Unpopular mechanical keyboard opinion, I guess.

I like the Rapoo KX--my first two mechs were these guys and I decked them out.

I like scissor switch laptop keyboards, a lot.

I agree on the scissor switches. At least on a nice laptop keyboard like an older ThinkPad, I know there nothing alike feel wise but i almost like typing on my ThinkPad x100e as much as i do my Cherry blue board.


I'd say it is a matter of convenience, Thinkpad keyboards are good enough when you do not have a mechanical keyboard handy, but there is nothing that may be compared between them and any good mechanical one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 30 December 2015, 10:04:53
I'd say it is a matter of convenience, Thinkpad keyboards are good enough when you do not have a mechanical keyboard handy, but there is nothing that may be compared between them and any good mechanical one.

If by "good" you exclude any stock Cherry board, then yeah ;)

The main selection criteria for my laptops are the keyboards, which is why I always have older Thinkpads (pre-chicklet). I also have an external Thinkpad keyboard. I definitely prefer them over stock Cherry boards, there's something about MX that just smacks of a confluence of compromises.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 30 December 2015, 10:34:18
I'd say it is a matter of convenience, Thinkpad keyboards are good enough when you do not have a mechanical keyboard handy, but there is nothing that may be compared between them and any good mechanical one.

If by "good" you exclude any stock Cherry board, then yeah ;)

The main selection criteria for my laptops are the keyboards, which is why I always have older Thinkpads (pre-chicklet). I also have an external Thinkpad keyboard. I definitely prefer them over stock Cherry boards, there's something about MX that just smacks of a confluence of compromises.


I still use a Thinkpad X61T and most of the people that try it for the first time always compliment its keyboard, but not the trakpoint; in the other hand, I cannot compare the keyboard I use now with it, it is a humble ergo clears with a winkeyless layout and OG Cherry key caps, by no means I can compare it with my x61 keyboard, but I think it is a matter of personal preferences.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 30 December 2015, 21:03:38
I still use a Thinkpad X61T and most of the people that try it for the first time always compliment its keyboard, but not the trakpoint; in the other hand, I cannot compare the keyboard I use now with it, it is a humble ergo clears with a winkeyless layout and OG Cherry key caps, by no means I can compare it with my x61 keyboard, but I think it is a matter of personal preferences.

Ha, that's funny, the other reason that I always end up with Thinkpads is because of the trackpoint! It's great not having to take fingers off the home row in order to make small pointer adjustments. The Tex is appealing for the same reason, only I also happen to like function keys.

IIRC some Dells have it (maybe discontinued) but they have the downside of being, well, Dells  :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 1deeg on Wed, 30 December 2015, 21:45:26
Granite is overrated
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Wed, 30 December 2015, 22:02:55
I still use a Thinkpad X61T and most of the people that try it for the first time always compliment its keyboard, but not the trakpoint; in the other hand, I cannot compare the keyboard I use now with it, it is a humble ergo clears with a winkeyless layout and OG Cherry key caps, by no means I can compare it with my x61 keyboard, but I think it is a matter of personal preferences.

Ha, that's funny, the other reason that I always end up with Thinkpads is because of the trackpoint! It's great not having to take fingers off the home row in order to make small pointer adjustments. The Tex is appealing for the same reason, only I also happen to like function keys.

IIRC some Dells have it (maybe discontinued) but they have the downside of being, well, Dells  :)

The trackpoint implimintation is another one of the reason's i love thinkpad :p. I cant stand trackpads.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Wed, 30 December 2015, 22:06:10
I'd say it is a matter of convenience, Thinkpad keyboards are good enough when you do not have a mechanical keyboard handy, but there is nothing that may be compared between them and any good mechanical one.

If by "good" you exclude any stock Cherry board, then yeah ;)

The main selection criteria for my laptops are the keyboards, which is why I always have older Thinkpads (pre-chicklet). I also have an external Thinkpad keyboard. I definitely prefer them over stock Cherry boards, there's something about MX that just smacks of a confluence of compromises.


I still use a Thinkpad X61T and most of the people that try it for the first time always compliment its keyboard, but not the trakpoint; in the other hand, I cannot compare the keyboard I use now with it, it is a humble ergo clears with a winkeyless layout and OG Cherry key caps, by no means I can compare it with my x61 keyboard, but I think it is a matter of personal preferences.

The short amount of time i've had with stock clears i'm loving them, i'm putting them in a custom 60% and i'm debateing making them ergo clears now or getting used to them stock first. I'm using a plate where you can remove the switch tops so i could always do it later.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 31 December 2015, 06:54:45
I'd say it is a matter of convenience, Thinkpad keyboards are good enough when you do not have a mechanical keyboard handy, but there is nothing that may be compared between them and any good mechanical one.

If by "good" you exclude any stock Cherry board, then yeah ;)

The main selection criteria for my laptops are the keyboards, which is why I always have older Thinkpads (pre-chicklet). I also have an external Thinkpad keyboard. I definitely prefer them over stock Cherry boards, there's something about MX that just smacks of a confluence of compromises.


I still use a Thinkpad X61T and most of the people that try it for the first time always compliment its keyboard, but not the trakpoint; in the other hand, I cannot compare the keyboard I use now with it, it is a humble ergo clears with a winkeyless layout and OG Cherry key caps, by no means I can compare it with my x61 keyboard, but I think it is a matter of personal preferences.

The short amount of time i've had with stock clears i'm loving them, i'm putting them in a custom 60% and i'm debateing making them ergo clears now or getting used to them stock first. I'm using a plate where you can remove the switch tops so i could always do it later.


In that case you can experiment with both, and have fun switching the springs when you were ready to change them. I recommend gold springs, while the plating do nothing for the functionality of the springs they look very cool, at least mean while you are changing them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mad_Maxx on Thu, 31 December 2015, 13:33:03
Most (98%) novelty keysets are just meh.
As a community, it seems like we should be able to make way cooler ****. But I can't contribute anything so I shouldn't be talking.

I love the community around artisans, even if I don't really like any artisans themselves.

Conversely, I can't stand the over-the-top hype around artisans. Just chill. gotdam.

Linear is best switch

The name of this thread should be changed to 'I disagree with at least one person on this forum' opinions.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Latin00032 on Thu, 31 December 2015, 13:45:29
Most (98%) novelty keysets are just meh.
As a community, it seems like we should be able to make way cooler ****. But I can't contribute anything so I shouldn't be talking.

I love the community around artisans, even if I don't really like any artisans themselves.

Conversely, I can't stand the over-the-top hype around artisans. Just chill. gotdam.

Linear is best switch

The name of this thread should be changed to 'I disagree with at least one person on this forum' opinions.
True. For the most part, thats why I liked the hyperfuse set compared to most other sets.

It doesnt use hospital/disinfected white. It uses a very light grey. It uses purple (my fave). It uses neon turqouise and grey for the mods.

It has enough color variety without being loud.

Most other sets stick with a full black color or full white color somewhere in the set when they could be taking more risks.

I want more double shot sets to have at least four different colors in the main part of the set. But, again sometimes too many colors can be bad, too.

I like the Troubled Minds set. That looks like it can be cool. It was only two colors but it mostly worked. If they introduced some orange, it would be a little better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:06:52
[WTB *insert specific artisan cap here*] threads should not be allowed. The incessant bumping of classifieds threads is totally unacceptable. Like, is that really why you're here?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:09:04
[WTB *insert specific artisan cap here*] threads should be not be allowed. The incessant bumping of classifieds threads is totally unacceptable. Like, is that really why you're here?


"I want to buy the most expensive piece of plastic that happens to fit the stems of my board, the ugliest the better"


 :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:10:55
[WTB *insert specific artisan cap here*] threads should be not be allowed. The incessant bumping of classifieds threads is totally unacceptable. Like, is that really why you're here?

There is a rule that you can only bump your thread once every 24 hours, some end up bumping much sooner than that and can get their thread locked.

As for the artisan threads I don't really mind it, it helps keep all their specific caps designated to one thread rather than overloading the Keycap & Keyboard Photography thread, granted there is a fair bit of x-posting though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:43:37
[WTB *insert specific artisan cap here*] threads should be not be allowed. The incessant bumping of classifieds threads is totally unacceptable. Like, is that really why you're here?

MechMarket on reddit has the same problem. It has gone from a decent place to find good keyboard deals to and endless barrage of "WTB BRO/CLACKS/ARTISANS," or people selling said artisans under a throwaway account for crazy prices, etc. Its just cluttered with 90% of the posts being about artisans, so I just quit checking it all together.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:46:53
[WTB *insert specific artisan cap here*] threads should be not be allowed. The incessant bumping of classifieds threads is totally unacceptable. Like, is that really why you're here?

MechMarket on reddit has the same problem. It has gone from a decent place to find good keyboard deals to and endless barrage of "WTB BRO/CLACKS/ARTISANS," or people selling said artisans under a throwaway account for crazy prices, etc. Its just cluttered with 90% of the posts being about artisans, so I just quit checking it all together.


If you check what did you get on the mail thread and it seems most of the post are about some artisan's keys, GH may be full of them now also.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mad_Maxx on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:54:55
Most (98%) novelty keysets are just meh.
As a community, it seems like we should be able to make way cooler ****. But I can't contribute anything so I shouldn't be talking.

I love the community around artisans, even if I don't really like any artisans themselves.

Conversely, I can't stand the over-the-top hype around artisans. Just chill. gotdam.

Linear is best switch

The name of this thread should be changed to 'I disagree with at least one person on this forum' opinions.
True. For the most part, thats why I liked the hyperfuse set compared to most other sets.

It doesnt use hospital/disinfected white. It uses a very light grey. It uses purple (my fave). It uses neon turqouise and grey for the mods.

It has enough color variety without being loud.

Most other sets stick with a full black color or full white color somewhere in the set when they could be taking more risks.

I want more double shot sets to have at least four different colors in the main part of the set. But, again sometimes too many colors can be bad, too.

I like the Troubled Minds set. That looks like it can be cool. It was only two colors but it mostly worked. If they introduced some orange, it would be a little better.

I do think the real challenge is being colorful without being garish. Especially since plastic just has the tendency to look cartoonish.

Legends are always so conservative too. I don't think that it would be possible to do anything really cool and be able to hit MOQ tho. The polarizing designs don't seem to do as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 31 December 2015, 15:33:10
Most (98%) novelty keysets are just meh.
As a community, it seems like we should be able to make way cooler ****. But I can't contribute anything so I shouldn't be talking.

I love the community around artisans, even if I don't really like any artisans themselves.

Conversely, I can't stand the over-the-top hype around artisans. Just chill. gotdam.

Linear is best switch

The name of this thread should be changed to 'I disagree with at least one person on this forum' opinions.
True. For the most part, thats why I liked the hyperfuse set compared to most other sets.

It doesnt use hospital/disinfected white. It uses a very light grey. It uses purple (my fave). It uses neon turqouise and grey for the mods.

It has enough color variety without being loud.

Most other sets stick with a full black color or full white color somewhere in the set when they could be taking more risks.

I want more double shot sets to have at least four different colors in the main part of the set. But, again sometimes too many colors can be bad, too.

I like the Troubled Minds set. That looks like it can be cool. It was only two colors but it mostly worked. If they introduced some orange, it would be a little better.

I do think the real challenge is being colorful without being garish. Especially since plastic just has the tendency to look cartoonish.

Legends are always so conservative too. I don't think that it would be possible to do anything really cool and be able to hit MOQ tho. The polarizing designs don't seem to do as well.

Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

But, with the general concept of "simple is better" i tend to agree, at least for personal use. I had a HEAP of fun creating Jukebox, but still, my daily driver is a completely stock 87u with the silly "special edition" CTRL/ESC colored keys. My daily "travel driver" is a stock HHKB with just a splash of red with the stock black. I think there is a place for the crazy sets as well as the simple/classy sets like Classic Beige, etc.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 31 December 2015, 15:39:28
Most (98%) novelty keysets are just meh.
As a community, it seems like we should be able to make way cooler ****. But I can't contribute anything so I shouldn't be talking.

I love the community around artisans, even if I don't really like any artisans themselves.

Conversely, I can't stand the over-the-top hype around artisans. Just chill. gotdam.

Linear is best switch

The name of this thread should be changed to 'I disagree with at least one person on this forum' opinions.
True. For the most part, thats why I liked the hyperfuse set compared to most other sets.

It doesnt use hospital/disinfected white. It uses a very light grey. It uses purple (my fave). It uses neon turqouise and grey for the mods.

It has enough color variety without being loud.

Most other sets stick with a full black color or full white color somewhere in the set when they could be taking more risks.

I want more double shot sets to have at least four different colors in the main part of the set. But, again sometimes too many colors can be bad, too.

I like the Troubled Minds set. That looks like it can be cool. It was only two colors but it mostly worked. If they introduced some orange, it would be a little better.

I do think the real challenge is being colorful without being garish. Especially since plastic just has the tendency to look cartoonish.

Legends are always so conservative too. I don't think that it would be possible to do anything really cool and be able to hit MOQ tho. The polarizing designs don't seem to do as well.

Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

But, with the general concept of "simple is better" i tend to agree, at least for personal use. I had a HEAP of fun creating Jukebox, but still, my daily driver is a completely stock 87u with the silly "special edition" CTRL/ESC colored keys. My daily "travel driver" is a stock HHKB with just a splash of red with the stock black. I think there is a place for the crazy sets as well as the simple/classy sets like Classic Beige, etc.


A boring Joe here that thinks classic beige and black would be on my boards always, maybe some granite color combinations and that's it for me. Not really into artisans or weird color combinations. It is a shame SNES seems doing that bad though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mad_Maxx on Thu, 31 December 2015, 16:12:59
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

But, with the general concept of "simple is better" i tend to agree, at least for personal use. I had a HEAP of fun creating Jukebox, but still, my daily driver is a completely stock 87u with the silly "special edition" CTRL/ESC colored keys. My daily "travel driver" is a stock HHKB with just a splash of red with the stock black. I think there is a place for the crazy sets as well as the simple/classy sets like Classic Beige, etc.

Def agree on penumbra. Its the holy grail as far as I'm concerned. I also like round 5, skull squadron, and soware tho.

I think Hyperfuse looks as different as every keycap set does in renders. I always have to close my eyes and think what that the set is going to look like in six months on some really nice build posted by someone who actually knows how to use a camera. Even so, I rarely can bring myself to go in on GBs.
I loved hyperfuse as a project, but it really just wasn't my style.

A boring Joe here that thinks classic beige and black would be on my boards always, maybe some granite color combinations and that's it for me. Not really into artisans or weird color combinations. It is a shame SNES seems doing that bad though.

Novelty wears off. Style is forever.

I would love to have a few cool novelty keysets, but all I really want is JTK or GMK Penumbra.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Thu, 31 December 2015, 16:22:23
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

But, with the general concept of "simple is better" i tend to agree, at least for personal use. I had a HEAP of fun creating Jukebox, but still, my daily driver is a completely stock 87u with the silly "special edition" CTRL/ESC colored keys. My daily "travel driver" is a stock HHKB with just a splash of red with the stock black. I think there is a place for the crazy sets as well as the simple/classy sets like Classic Beige, etc.

This is one reason why Topre boards are so cool. You get a great looking board out of the box.

You really have to put work into a Cherry keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 31 December 2015, 16:51:35
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

But, with the general concept of "simple is better" i tend to agree, at least for personal use. I had a HEAP of fun creating Jukebox, but still, my daily driver is a completely stock 87u with the silly "special edition" CTRL/ESC colored keys. My daily "travel driver" is a stock HHKB with just a splash of red with the stock black. I think there is a place for the crazy sets as well as the simple/classy sets like Classic Beige, etc.

This is one reason why Topre boards are so cool. You get a great looking board out of the box.

You really have to put work into a Cherry keyboard.


Oh yeah, RF 87u is the best keyboard out of the box, imo.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 31 December 2015, 17:30:02
@Mad-Maxx, I also would like to see that color way in GMK double shots.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ATXTider on Mon, 04 January 2016, 22:23:32
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

But, with the general concept of "simple is better" i tend to agree, at least for personal use. I had a HEAP of fun creating Jukebox, but still, my daily driver is a completely stock 87u with the silly "special edition" CTRL/ESC colored keys. My daily "travel driver" is a stock HHKB with just a splash of red with the stock black. I think there is a place for the crazy sets as well as the simple/classy sets like Classic Beige, etc.

This is one reason why Topre boards are so cool. You get a great looking board out of the box.

You really have to put work into a Cherry keyboard.


Oh yeah, RF 87u is the best keyboard out of the box, imo.

RF Legends are soooooooooooooooooo ugly tho.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 04 January 2016, 22:26:46
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

But, with the general concept of "simple is better" i tend to agree, at least for personal use. I had a HEAP of fun creating Jukebox, but still, my daily driver is a completely stock 87u with the silly "special edition" CTRL/ESC colored keys. My daily "travel driver" is a stock HHKB with just a splash of red with the stock black. I think there is a place for the crazy sets as well as the simple/classy sets like Classic Beige, etc.

This is one reason why Topre boards are so cool. You get a great looking board out of the box.

You really have to put work into a Cherry keyboard.


Oh yeah, RF 87u is the best keyboard out of the box, imo.

RF Legends are soooooooooooooooooo ugly tho.

Nahhhh. They don't have a personality but they aren't ugly.

Decks font, now that is UGLY.
(http://i.imgur.com/DL7f3OP.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 04 January 2016, 22:51:37
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

I thought the original hyperfuse's colors looked much nicer
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 04 January 2016, 22:56:39
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

I thought the original hyperfuse's colors looked much nicer

Totally agree. The GMK set just is really meh to me.

For reference
(http://i.imgur.com/3f7OmYu.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k4JAPvAjvTQ/Uw3z7uMKDsI/AAAAAAAAHOA/ZDxOLdFMKjA/s1600/DSC00506.jpg)

The GMK set just doesn't mesh like the DCS/DSA sets did. I think the GMK set is good as a mix n match set with other GMK sets though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lengradde on Tue, 05 January 2016, 06:06:51
GMK caps look cool but feel like crap.  Not sculpted enough.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asgeirtj on Tue, 05 January 2016, 15:19:52
GMK caps look cool but feel like crap.  Not sculpted enough.

sculpted?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:08:06
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

I thought the original hyperfuse's colors looked much nicer

Totally agree. The GMK set just is really meh to me.

For reference
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3f7OmYu.jpg)

Show Image
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k4JAPvAjvTQ/Uw3z7uMKDsI/AAAAAAAAHOA/ZDxOLdFMKjA/s1600/DSC00506.jpg)


The GMK set just doesn't mesh like the DCS/DSA sets did. I think the GMK set is good as a mix n match set with other GMK sets though.

I have not seen those blank iso enter keys, what they were thinking? why did they do them blanks?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:10:00
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

I thought the original hyperfuse's colors looked much nicer

Totally agree. The GMK set just is really meh to me.

For reference
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3f7OmYu.jpg)

Show Image
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k4JAPvAjvTQ/Uw3z7uMKDsI/AAAAAAAAHOA/ZDxOLdFMKjA/s1600/DSC00506.jpg)


The GMK set just doesn't mesh like the DCS/DSA sets did. I think the GMK set is good as a mix n match set with other GMK sets though.

I have not seen those blank iso enter keys, what they were thinking? why did they do them blanks?
because no one takes ISO seriously  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:10:46
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

I thought the original hyperfuse's colors looked much nicer

Totally agree. The GMK set just is really meh to me.

For reference
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3f7OmYu.jpg)

Show Image
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k4JAPvAjvTQ/Uw3z7uMKDsI/AAAAAAAAHOA/ZDxOLdFMKjA/s1600/DSC00506.jpg)


The GMK set just doesn't mesh like the DCS/DSA sets did. I think the GMK set is good as a mix n match set with other GMK sets though.

I have not seen those blank iso enter keys, what they were thinking? why did they do them blanks?

I think as a design, it is fantastic. On paper, one of my favorite sets ever, easily. In person, not. I just think the translation to GMK from SP was not a good one, and a bit lazy (like those blank enters).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:11:52
Am i the only one that didn't think Hyperfuse GMK really looked like the renders at all? Personally I wasn't a fan of how it came out. For me Penumbra was a that "simple, yet obviously custom" set that I really enjoyed. The different colors of the modifier legends just really helped make that set "pop" for me.

I thought the original hyperfuse's colors looked much nicer

Totally agree. The GMK set just is really meh to me.

For reference
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3f7OmYu.jpg)

Show Image
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k4JAPvAjvTQ/Uw3z7uMKDsI/AAAAAAAAHOA/ZDxOLdFMKjA/s1600/DSC00506.jpg)


The GMK set just doesn't mesh like the DCS/DSA sets did. I think the GMK set is good as a mix n match set with other GMK sets though.

I have not seen those blank iso enter keys, what they were thinking? why did they do them blanks?
because no one takes ISO seriously  :))

People who bought the set were not joking with their money.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Tue, 05 January 2016, 23:40:31
I think thin caps are great. I can't stand thick caps. They're too thick. Their thickness annoys me. When I'm typing on them, I can just feel how thick they are. They're way too thick. Their thickness is obvious to my plastic-depth-detecting fingers. Anyone else whose fingers can detect the thickness of the plastic they're touching will instantly agree.

I love thick keycaps on heavy switches, but i prefer standard thickness on anything lighter like blue's.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lengradde on Wed, 06 January 2016, 09:41:57
GMK caps look cool but feel like crap.  Not sculpted enough.

sculpted?

They are too flat on top for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 06 January 2016, 11:47:26
GMK caps look cool but feel like crap.  Not sculpted enough.

I'll give it to you that it is quite the unpopular opinion. :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Wed, 06 January 2016, 11:51:49
GMK caps look cool but feel like crap.  Not sculpted enough.

I'll give it to you that it is quite the unpopular opinion. :p

meh, I agree with the first part. 2nd part is confusing. They're a tad flat but is OEM more cylindrical or something?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 06 January 2016, 13:32:42
GMK caps look cool but feel like crap.  Not sculpted enough.

I'll give it to you that it is quite the unpopular opinion. :p

meh, I agree with the first part. 2nd part is confusing. They're a tad flat but is OEM more cylindrical or something?

There are some comparison between profiles reported somewhere at GH, what I recall is that there is no significant profile differences between OEM and Cherry, there is only minor ones between the last two and SA contoured, but the angle changes between rows, in this last one, are different than Cherry. I really do not understand what Lengradd is referring to. It seems something he just thought about on the fly and write on to participate in the thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Roibhilin on Wed, 06 January 2016, 18:09:54
also: dolch is overrated
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 06 January 2016, 20:08:44
Cherry is overrated
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 06 January 2016, 20:37:26
over rating is overrated...lol!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Wed, 06 January 2016, 20:42:30
Whatever, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this

I hate blues. Not because they're loud, they just feel like **** to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 06 January 2016, 20:56:48
Cherry is overrated

Elaborate it!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 06 January 2016, 21:03:40
Cherry is overrated

Elaborate it!

I can really only think of the fact that they're somewhat scratchy new, but really only Gaterons are superior in that regard. Unless he's just talking about MX switches in general
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 06 January 2016, 21:07:51
Cherry is overrated

Elaborate it!

I can really only think of the fact that they're somewhat scratchy new, but really only Gaterons are superior in that regard. Unless he's just talking about MX switches in general

It doesn't really happen here but there is this kind of mythos about "Genuine Cherry" that gets used a lot in advertising materials that make them sound like the be all and end all of switches

So far I have found that Cherry switches are only good when you mod the crap out of them

Gaterons are way better out of the box

If Cherry hadn't been so lucky in that their switches allow for the most keycap customisation they would not be held in such high regard
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 06 January 2016, 21:56:20
Cherry is overrated

Elaborate it!

I can really only think of the fact that they're somewhat scratchy new, but really only Gaterons are superior in that regard. Unless he's just talking about MX switches in general

It doesn't really happen here but there is this kind of mythos about "Genuine Cherry" that gets used a lot in advertising materials that make them sound like the be all and end all of switches

So far I have found that Cherry switches are only good when you mod the crap out of them

Gaterons are way better out of the box

If Cherry hadn't been so lucky in that their switches allow for the most keycap customisation they would not be held in such high regard

Cherry key caps or Cherry switches? You meant switches; but, the OP?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Wed, 06 January 2016, 23:06:07
It doesn't really happen here but there is this kind of mythos about "Genuine Cherry" that gets used a lot in advertising materials that make them sound like the be all and end all of switches

So far I have found that Cherry switches are only good when you mod the crap out of them

Gaterons are way better out of the box

If Cherry hadn't been so lucky in that their switches allow for the most keycap customisation they would not be held in such high regard

I think it has more to do with the fact that Cherry has been around for a long time and they have a reputation for making durable and long-lasting switches, especially for industrial applications. Nobody outside of the keyboard community has even heard of Gateron or any of the other alternatives.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lengradde on Thu, 07 January 2016, 02:58:52
GMK caps look cool but feel like crap.  Not sculpted enough.

I'll give it to you that it is quite the unpopular opinion. :p

meh, I agree with the first part. 2nd part is confusing. They're a tad flat but is OEM more cylindrical or something?

There are some comparison between profiles reported somewhere at GH, what I recall is that there is no significant profile differences between OEM and Cherry, there is only minor ones between the last two and SA contoured, but the angle changes between rows, in this last one, are different than Cherry. I really do not understand what Lengradd is referring to. It seems something he just thought about on the fly and write on to participate in the thread.

I'm referring to the smaller radius of the cylindrical profile on OEM.  It's a bit more contoured than Cherry and consequently feels more comfortable to my fingertips.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 07 January 2016, 06:16:10
Cherry is overrated

Elaborate it!

I can really only think of the fact that they're somewhat scratchy new, but really only Gaterons are superior in that regard. Unless he's just talking about MX switches in general

It doesn't really happen here but there is this kind of mythos about "Genuine Cherry" that gets used a lot in advertising materials that make them sound like the be all and end all of switches

So far I have found that Cherry switches are only good when you mod the crap out of them

Gaterons are way better out of the box

If Cherry hadn't been so lucky in that their switches allow for the most keycap customisation they would not be held in such high regard

Cherry key caps or Cherry switches? You meant switches; but, the OP?

yep switches - caps are awesome
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 07 January 2016, 07:40:05
Cherry is overrated

Elaborate it!

I can really only think of the fact that they're somewhat scratchy new, but really only Gaterons are superior in that regard. Unless he's just talking about MX switches in general

It doesn't really happen here but there is this kind of mythos about "Genuine Cherry" that gets used a lot in advertising materials that make them sound like the be all and end all of switches

So far I have found that Cherry switches are only good when you mod the crap out of them

Gaterons are way better out of the box

If Cherry hadn't been so lucky in that their switches allow for the most keycap customisation they would not be held in such high regard

Cherry key caps or Cherry switches? You meant switches; but, the OP?

yep switches - caps are awesome

Agree.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frogthejam19 on Tue, 12 January 2016, 06:55:46
NKRO is useless.
Led's are cancerous to the eyes and look childish when in public.
MX Browns are terrible  so are reds.
Stiff Switches are the best.

I like typing on my k30 more than  i do an mx brown board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 12 January 2016, 09:14:00
Led's are cancerous to the eyes and look childish when in public.
MX Browns are terrible  so are reds.

the most popular unpopular opinions in the world
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 12 January 2016, 09:26:22
Led's are cancerous to the eyes and look childish when in public.
MX Browns are terrible  so are reds.

the most popular unpopular opinions in the world

At this point is it even an "unpopular" opinion? Seems like most people agree (not me though, I like my LEDs  :thumb:).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 12 January 2016, 09:42:37
Led's are cancerous to the eyes and look childish when in public.
MX Browns are terrible  so are reds.

the most popular unpopular opinions in the world

At this point is it even an "unpopular" opinion? Seems like most people agree (not me though, I like my LEDs  :thumb:).

I'm pretty sure half the forum hates LEDs considering it's every third post here
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 12 January 2016, 09:58:38
Led's are cancerous to the eyes and look childish when in public.
MX Browns are terrible  so are reds.

the most popular unpopular opinions in the world

Meh, I'm fine having one board with LEDs as some keysets look nice with them, but I would only use a LED board at home.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 12 January 2016, 10:18:27
CHERRY SUCKS
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 12 January 2016, 10:28:07
Geekhack is easier to read, when demilk is muted. I'm not sure, if that's unpopular though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frogthejam19 on Tue, 12 January 2016, 10:29:54
CHERRY SUCKS

Please. Only Linear Switches suck. Blues and Greens are great and are a godsend when you want to break the ice in public or to end a annoying silence in room.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 12 January 2016, 10:31:35
Geekhack is easier to read, when demilk is muted. I'm not sure, if that's unpopular though.

demilk? Never heard of him.

CHERRY SUCKS

Please. Only Linear Switches suck. Blues and Greens are great and are a godsend when you want to break the ice in public or to end a annoying silence in room.
Linear is no different than rubberdome. Clicky cherry is where it's at if I HAD to use cherry.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Tue, 12 January 2016, 10:32:40
CHERRY SUCKS

Please. Only Linear Switches suck. Blues and Greens are great and are a godsend when you want to break the ice in public or to end a annoying silence in room.

There's a difference between right and wrong. Both wrong. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frogthejam19 on Tue, 12 January 2016, 10:34:50
CHERRY SUCKS

Please. Only Linear Switches suck. Blues and Greens are great and are a godsend when you want to break the ice in public or to end a annoying silence in room.

There's a difference between right and wrong. Both wrong. :P

Thats an odd way of saying that Clack and click is the best.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 12 January 2016, 10:35:50
Geekhack is easier to read, when demilk is muted. I'm not sure, if that's unpopular though.

demilk? Never heard of him.

CHERRY SUCKS

Please. Only Linear Switches suck. Blues and Greens are great and are a godsend when you want to break the ice in public or to end a annoying silence in room.
Linear is no different than rubberdome. Clicky cherry is where it's at if I HAD to use cherry.


Does demik **** wit' buckling springs then?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Tue, 12 January 2016, 10:36:55
Led's are cancerous to the eyes and look childish when in public.
MX Browns are terrible  so are reds.

the most popular unpopular opinions in the world

At this point is it even an "unpopular" opinion? Seems like most people agree (not me though, I like my LEDs  :thumb:).

I'm pretty sure half the forum hates LEDs considering it's every third post here
Personally I think backlighting can make a keyboard look rather vulgar and showy if it's done badly. Integrated lock light LEDs are pretty cool though :D . Does anyone not like those?

CHERRY SUCKS

Please. Only Linear Switches suck. Blues and Greens are great and are a godsend when you want to break the ice in public or to end a annoying silence in room.
"Suck" is a relative term :p . I don't hate Cherry switches or anything, but I can think of a better alternative to each and every single Cherry MX switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 12 January 2016, 10:44:03
Geekhack is easier to read, when demilk is muted. I'm not sure, if that's unpopular though.

demilk? Never heard of him.

CHERRY SUCKS

Please. Only Linear Switches suck. Blues and Greens are great and are a godsend when you want to break the ice in public or to end a annoying silence in room.
Linear is no different than rubberdome. Clicky cherry is where it's at if I HAD to use cherry.


Does demik **** wit' buckling springs then?
Nah. Boards are god damn boats. Hhkb size or nada
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jd29 on Wed, 13 January 2016, 00:36:14
CHERRY SUCKS

This. Especially blues, they're so tinny.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 13 January 2016, 01:07:52
This. Especially blues, they're so tinny.

Just think of them as fake buckling springs.

Cheap sounding, fake buckling springs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 13 January 2016, 09:10:01
CHERRY SUCKS

This. Especially blues, they're so tinny.

The Blues on my DS do sound a little tinny, however, I think the worst board I ever had for that tinny sound was the ABS M1.  I swear the thing would almost ring when typing fast.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 13 January 2016, 10:48:04
Led's are cancerous to the eyes and look childish when in public.
MX Browns are terrible  so are reds.

the most popular unpopular opinions in the world

At this point is it even an "unpopular" opinion? Seems like most people agree (not me though, I like my LEDs  :thumb:).

I'm pretty sure half the forum hates LEDs considering it's every third post here
Personally I think backlighting can make a keyboard look rather vulgar and showy if it's done badly. Integrated lock light LEDs are pretty cool though :D . Does anyone not like those?

CHERRY SUCKS

Please. Only Linear Switches suck. Blues and Greens are great and are a godsend when you want to break the ice in public or to end a annoying silence in room.
"Suck" is a relative term :p . I don't hate Cherry switches or anything, but I can think of a better alternative to each and every single Cherry MX switch.

Ugh, yeah. The LEDs on my Octagon are an example of something I find nigh vulgar. If only the brightness adjustment worked as it should. The diminished and diffused look of the LEDs on my Hammer Alps board really compliments the grey and blue caps, I think, and I just love the look. To me, I feel it really completes the look when the board is on my desk, especially as the bottom row LEDs shimmer of the glossy black of my wrist rest.

(http://i.imgur.com/X7MsZDD.jpg)

On both the Lightpad and Octagon, the LEDs are way too bright. That's fine though, because I plan on swapping the Lightpad to ALPS with a custom carbon fiber num pad plate to go with my Hammer! :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Fri, 15 January 2016, 00:58:13
All linears including gat blacks suck
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SploogeFactory on Fri, 15 January 2016, 02:17:47
All linears including gat blacks suck

Agree, linear is terrible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MAR82 on Fri, 15 January 2016, 04:36:45
All linears including gat blacks suck

Agree, linear is terrible.

Amen
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 15 January 2016, 05:05:45
Linear is the anly cherry that I like
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 15 January 2016, 10:10:58
Linear is the anly cherry that I like

Wait to try V.browns son.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: phosphoric on Fri, 15 January 2016, 17:50:35
i'm sure this has been posted, but the hhkb layout is pure TRASH. my hand has to contort to use the arrow keys, i keep hitting backspace and enter when i try to just press backspace, even after my muscle memory has adjusted, and switching back to a normal keyboard is a pain in the ass. the shift of the caps lock and the ctrl to its position is nice, but caps lock works much, much better as an fn key. the point of having a 60% board is so that you don't have to move your hands from your default typing position to access all the keys on the keyboard, and the fn's position on the hhkb means i have to shift my entire hand to the right. with how much i have to move, i might as well just get traditional arrow keys so i don't have to try to hard just to move my cursor one position to the left.

topre is a great switch, though
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Olumin on Fri, 15 January 2016, 19:49:41
i'm sure this has been posted, but the hhkb layout is pure TRASH. my hand has to contort to use the arrow keys, i keep hitting backspace and enter when i try to just press backspace, even after my muscle memory has adjusted, and switching back to a normal keyboard is a pain in the ass. the shift of the caps lock and the ctrl to its position is nice, but caps lock works much, much better as an fn key. the point of having a 60% board is so that you don't have to move your hands from your default typing position to access all the keys on the keyboard, and the fn's position on the hhkb means i have to shift my entire hand to the right. with how much i have to move, i might as well just get traditional arrow keys so i don't have to try to hard just to move my cursor one position to the left.

topre is a great switch, though

The HHKB Layout is designed for people who don't miss their dedicated arrow-key cluster, if you cant live without it, the HHKB is not the right board for you, perhaps you should take a look at the Leopold leopold fc660c instead. Also, using the DIP switches, you can turn the left Meta key into a FN key, that way you don't have to move all the way to the right. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 15 January 2016, 19:52:31
OK, OP is still around. Can we update the OP with all the popular unpopular opinions e.g LEDs are stupid, Cherry sucks, topre sucks, linears suck?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 15 January 2016, 20:08:04
i'm sure this has been posted, but the hhkb layout is pure TRASH. my hand has to contort to use the arrow keys, i keep hitting backspace and enter when i try to just press backspace, even after my muscle memory has adjusted, and switching back to a normal keyboard is a pain in the ass. the shift of the caps lock and the ctrl to its position is nice, but caps lock works much, much better as an fn key. the point of having a 60% board is so that you don't have to move your hands from your default typing position to access all the keys on the keyboard, and the fn's position on the hhkb means i have to shift my entire hand to the right. with how much i have to move, i might as well just get traditional arrow keys so i don't have to try to hard just to move my cursor one position to the left.

topre is a great switch, though

wrong.  :))
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: phosphoric on Fri, 15 January 2016, 20:17:57

The HHKB Layout is designed for people who don't miss their dedicated arrow-key cluster, if you cant live without it, the HHKB is not the right board for you, perhaps you should take a look at the Leopold leopold fc660c instead. Also, using the DIP switches, you can turn the left Meta key into a FN key, that way you don't have to move all the way to the right.

oh yeah, i know, but either way i have to end up shifting my hand to the right for arrow keys. i love 60% boards, don't get me wrong, but having the arrow keys on ijkl  and my fn key on caps lock (on both my pok3r and custom alps64) has really spoiled me and made me too lazy to move my hand to the right 3 fingers hahaha

wrong.  :))

that's entirely fair lol. i cant refute this
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 15 January 2016, 20:22:23

The HHKB Layout is designed for people who don't miss their dedicated arrow-key cluster, if you cant live without it, the HHKB is not the right board for you, perhaps you should take a look at the Leopold leopold fc660c instead. Also, using the DIP switches, you can turn the left Meta key into a FN key, that way you don't have to move all the way to the right.

HASU controller. It's all you need  :thumb:
oh yeah, i know, but either way i have to end up shifting my hand to the right for arrow keys. i love 60% boards, don't get me wrong, but having the arrow keys on ijkl  and my fn key on caps lock (on both my pok3r and custom alps64) has really spoiled me and made me too lazy to move my hand to the right 3 fingers hahaha


Hasu's controller is all you need then  ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: phosphoric on Fri, 15 January 2016, 20:27:10


The HHKB Layout is designed for people who don't miss their dedicated arrow-key cluster, if you cant live without it, the HHKB is not the right board for you, perhaps you should take a look at the Leopold leopold fc660c instead. Also, using the DIP switches, you can turn the left Meta key into a FN key, that way you don't have to move all the way to the right.

HASU controller. It's all you need  :thumb:
oh yeah, i know, but either way i have to end up shifting my hand to the right for arrow keys. i love 60% boards, don't get me wrong, but having the arrow keys on ijkl  and my fn key on caps lock (on both my pok3r and custom alps64) has really spoiled me and made me too lazy to move my hand to the right 3 fingers hahaha


Hasu's controller is all you need then  ^-^

honestly i always just assumed that it was out of my price range and im too lazy to learn how to make one out of a teensy but i just checked the prices... and goddammit i have no excuse now
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 15 January 2016, 20:32:13


The HHKB Layout is designed for people who don't miss their dedicated arrow-key cluster, if you cant live without it, the HHKB is not the right board for you, perhaps you should take a look at the Leopold leopold fc660c instead. Also, using the DIP switches, you can turn the left Meta key into a FN key, that way you don't have to move all the way to the right.

HASU controller. It's all you need  :thumb:
oh yeah, i know, but either way i have to end up shifting my hand to the right for arrow keys. i love 60% boards, don't get me wrong, but having the arrow keys on ijkl  and my fn key on caps lock (on both my pok3r and custom alps64) has really spoiled me and made me too lazy to move my hand to the right 3 fingers hahaha


Hasu's controller is all you need then  ^-^

honestly i always just assumed that it was out of my price range and im too lazy to learn how to make one out of a teensy but i just checked the prices... and goddammit i have no excuse now

Yeah, quite affordable. better off just buying the controller than making one all day long when it comes to the HHKB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: phosphoric on Fri, 15 January 2016, 20:34:57



The HHKB Layout is designed for people who don't miss their dedicated arrow-key cluster, if you cant live without it, the HHKB is not the right board for you, perhaps you should take a look at the Leopold leopold fc660c instead. Also, using the DIP switches, you can turn the left Meta key into a FN key, that way you don't have to move all the way to the right.

HASU controller. It's all you need  :thumb:
oh yeah, i know, but either way i have to end up shifting my hand to the right for arrow keys. i love 60% boards, don't get me wrong, but having the arrow keys on ijkl  and my fn key on caps lock (on both my pok3r and custom alps64) has really spoiled me and made me too lazy to move my hand to the right 3 fingers hahaha


Hasu's controller is all you need then  ^-^

honestly i always just assumed that it was out of my price range and im too lazy to learn how to make one out of a teensy but i just checked the prices... and goddammit i have no excuse now

Yeah, quite affordable. better off just buying the controller than making one all day long when it comes to the HHKB.

i definitely agree - a $200+ keyboard doesnt deserve a messy, makeshift connection to a teensy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 15 January 2016, 20:41:33



The HHKB Layout is designed for people who don't miss their dedicated arrow-key cluster, if you cant live without it, the HHKB is not the right board for you, perhaps you should take a look at the Leopold leopold fc660c instead. Also, using the DIP switches, you can turn the left Meta key into a FN key, that way you don't have to move all the way to the right.

HASU controller. It's all you need  :thumb:
oh yeah, i know, but either way i have to end up shifting my hand to the right for arrow keys. i love 60% boards, don't get me wrong, but having the arrow keys on ijkl  and my fn key on caps lock (on both my pok3r and custom alps64) has really spoiled me and made me too lazy to move my hand to the right 3 fingers hahaha


Hasu's controller is all you need then  ^-^

honestly i always just assumed that it was out of my price range and im too lazy to learn how to make one out of a teensy but i just checked the prices... and goddammit i have no excuse now

Yeah, quite affordable. better off just buying the controller than making one all day long when it comes to the HHKB.

i definitely agree - a $200+ keyboard doesnt deserve a messy, makeshift connection to a teensy

yup, my thoughts exactly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Fri, 15 January 2016, 22:17:53
I suppose this isn't an unpopular opinion, but im really missing my arrow keys on my 60%, i dont miss dedicated function keys, or the numpad, just arrows, media keys slightly but not as much, I know i can fix that with layers on my GH60 satan based board, but i may pic up a cheap numpad to use for dedicated arrow keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 15 January 2016, 23:10:28
Im just curious, what do people use arrow keys for? With programming, gaming, daily use, I've never found that I really use them or want them, much less need them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Olumin on Fri, 15 January 2016, 23:13:42
Im just curious, what do people use arrow keys for? With programming, gaming, daily use, I've never found that I really use them or want them, much less need them.

For media use, skipping in YT videos and volume up and down, also quite useful for typing when you gut used to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Olumin on Fri, 15 January 2016, 23:18:49
I suppose this isn't an unpopular opinion, but im really missing my arrow keys on my 60%, i dont miss dedicated function keys, or the numpad, just arrows, media keys slightly but not as much, I know i can fix that with layers on my GH60 satan based board, but i may pic up a cheap numpad to use for dedicated arrow keys.

There are a few 60% layout keyboards available which offer a dedicated arrow-key cluster, although wouldn't that make it a 65% layout? However, I'm not an expert on these, I know about the leopold fc660c, but that's probably just because it has topre switches. I would actually probably use the leopold instead of my current HHKB if it just wouldn't be standard layout. I love my backspace above enter, I could never return...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Fri, 15 January 2016, 23:19:33
Im just curious, what do people use arrow keys for? With programming, gaming, daily use, I've never found that I really use them or want them, much less need them.

It's kind of funny... when i think about it i cant think of any really critical things i need them for, but i really do notice them not being there, kind of like a built up muscle memory.  Mainly for daily use, like when i'm typing a url and want to go a few spaces to the left or right to modify it, or if i make a typing mistake, the fastest way for me to fix it is to bring the cursor over with the arrow keys, so mostly casual word processing for me. It's a lot slower for me to use the mouse for things like that.

I also use them in Sony Vegas and really heavily in Kodi media center as i dont have a dedicated remote for my desktop.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Fri, 15 January 2016, 23:22:03
I suppose this isn't an unpopular opinion, but im really missing my arrow keys on my 60%, i dont miss dedicated function keys, or the numpad, just arrows, media keys slightly but not as much, I know i can fix that with layers on my GH60 satan based board, but i may pic up a cheap numpad to use for dedicated arrow keys.

There are a few 60% layout keyboards available which offer a dedicated arrow-key cluster, although wouldn't that make it a 65% layout? However, I'm not an expert on these, I know about the leopold fc660c, but that's probably just because it has topre switches. I would actually probable use the leopold instated of my current HHKB if it would be standard layout. I love my backspace above enter, I could never return...

Ive seen a few custom layouts that include the arrow keys, or the 75% layout is a bit interesting, but i really am loving my 60%, for now im using it as my main keyboard and the board i bring around with my laptop. So ill probably just get a numpad for the desk for the time being.

Edit:

i have considered remapping my \ to backspace and vice versa so that my backspace is right above enter, as my pinky really doesnt like going that far to reach the backspace.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Olumin on Fri, 15 January 2016, 23:26:17
I suppose this isn't an unpopular opinion, but im really missing my arrow keys on my 60%, i dont miss dedicated function keys, or the numpad, just arrows, media keys slightly but not as much, I know i can fix that with layers on my GH60 satan based board, but i may pic up a cheap numpad to use for dedicated arrow keys.

There are a few 60% layout keyboards available which offer a dedicated arrow-key cluster, although wouldn't that make it a 65% layout? However, I'm not an expert on these, I know about the leopold fc660c, but that's probably just because it has topre switches. I would actually probable use the leopold instated of my current HHKB if it would be standard layout. I love my backspace above enter, I could never return...

Ive seen a few custom layouts that include the arrow keys, or the 75% layout is a bit interesting, but i really am loving my 60%, for now im using it as my main keyboard and the board i bring around with my laptop. So ill probably just get a numpad for the desk for the time being.

I really got used to the HHKB arrow-key layout, if I'm thinking about it, Its actually more comfortable to use then a dedicated cluster for me at this point.

Edit: About the remapping, that's of course feasible, but what would be the former backspace key good for then, I'd had to give a reasonable use, I can not really thing of anything right now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Fri, 15 January 2016, 23:35:09
I suppose this isn't an unpopular opinion, but im really missing my arrow keys on my 60%, i dont miss dedicated function keys, or the numpad, just arrows, media keys slightly but not as much, I know i can fix that with layers on my GH60 satan based board, but i may pic up a cheap numpad to use for dedicated arrow keys.

There are a few 60% layout keyboards available which offer a dedicated arrow-key cluster, although wouldn't that make it a 65% layout? However, I'm not an expert on these, I know about the leopold fc660c, but that's probably just because it has topre switches. I would actually probable use the leopold instated of my current HHKB if it would be standard layout. I love my backspace above enter, I could never return...

Ive seen a few custom layouts that include the arrow keys, or the 75% layout is a bit interesting, but i really am loving my 60%, for now im using it as my main keyboard and the board i bring around with my laptop. So ill probably just get a numpad for the desk for the time being.

I really got used to the HHKB arrow-key layout, if I'm thinking about it, Its actually more comfortable to use then a dedicated cluster for me at this point.

Edit: About the remapping, that's of course feasible, but what would be the former backspace key good for then, I'd had to give a reasonable use, I can not really thing of anything right now.

I really like the HHKB arrow layout, though i have not yet had a chance to use one, or a board of a similar layout yet, i do want to get an HHKB eventually for the layout and to try topre switches. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Olumin on Fri, 15 January 2016, 23:41:26
I suppose this isn't an unpopular opinion, but im really missing my arrow keys on my 60%, i dont miss dedicated function keys, or the numpad, just arrows, media keys slightly but not as much, I know i can fix that with layers on my GH60 satan based board, but i may pic up a cheap numpad to use for dedicated arrow keys.

There are a few 60% layout keyboards available which offer a dedicated arrow-key cluster, although wouldn't that make it a 65% layout? However, I'm not an expert on these, I know about the leopold fc660c, but that's probably just because it has topre switches. I would actually probable use the leopold instated of my current HHKB if it would be standard layout. I love my backspace above enter, I could never return...

Ive seen a few custom layouts that include the arrow keys, or the 75% layout is a bit interesting, but i really am loving my 60%, for now im using it as my main keyboard and the board i bring around with my laptop. So ill probably just get a numpad for the desk for the time being.

I really got used to the HHKB arrow-key layout, if I'm thinking about it, Its actually more comfortable to use then a dedicated cluster for me at this point.

Edit: About the remapping, that's of course feasible, but what would be the former backspace key good for then, I'd had to give a reasonable use, I can not really thing of anything right now.

I really like the HHKB arrow layout, though i have not yet had a chance to use one, or a board of a similar layout yet, i do want to get an HHKB eventually for the layout and to try topre switches.

When it comes to topre keyboards, its really just a matter of preference regarding the layout. If you want your standard full sized board without any crazy layouts or perhaps a plain 10 key-less, you go with a Realforce, you want a 60%? You get a HHKB. You like your arrow-key cluster? You get the Leopold. In the end, it really just comes down to these 3. There is of course the Typeheaven, but only if you don't mind the ABS Laserd Keycaps and lower build quality, in the end, its a budged-Topre board,
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 15 January 2016, 23:54:39
ABS and PBT both suck.


When shined. :3

I'm always so disappointed when vintage boards end up having shined caps. It's far too common. It's not so much that they are shiny as it is that that is indicative of a loss of texture. I have heard people using sand blasters to retexture caps, albeit in some really grazing way I'm sure, because a sand blaster would annihilate a key cap for sure.

I really want to do this. Retexture old sets! I know matte clear coat could do it, but that feels wrong.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 15 January 2016, 23:59:51
ABS and PBT both suck.


When shined. :3

I'm always so disappointed when vintage boards end up having shined caps. It's far too common. It's not so much that they are shiny as it is that that is indicative of a loss of texture. I have heard people using sand blasters to retexture caps, albeit in some really grazing way I'm sure, because a sand blaster would annihilate a key cap for sure.

I really want to do this. Retexture old sets! I know matte clear coat could do it, but that feels wrong.

I wonder if you clear coat the caps and then sand the majority of the coating off would end with good results.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Sat, 16 January 2016, 00:12:15
ABS and PBT both suck.


When shined. :3

I'm always so disappointed when vintage boards end up having shined caps. It's far too common. It's not so much that they are shiny as it is that that is indicative of a loss of texture. I have heard people using sand blasters to retexture caps, albeit in some really grazing way I'm sure, because a sand blaster would annihilate a key cap for sure.

I really want to do this. Retexture old sets! I know matte clear coat could do it, but that feels wrong.

id imagine it would work well if you used either a lower air pressure, or maybe less abrasive glass bead sandblasting, maybe baking soda sand blasting for a finer texture.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 16 January 2016, 05:36:49
Im just curious, what do people use arrow keys for? With programming, gaming, daily use, I've never found that I really use them or want them, much less need them.
Well, if you don't use software with vi/emacs bindings, it's pretty much the only way to reposition cursor, other than grabbing the mouse (or some other pointing device). The same with scrolling, moving around in a file manager, etc. Windows-like GUIs shove it down everybody's throat by default. Some games have default/hard-coded motion bindings @ WASD/arrows.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sat, 16 January 2016, 08:22:29
ABS and PBT both suck.


When shined. :3

I'm always so disappointed when vintage boards end up having shined caps. It's far too common. It's not so much that they are shiny as it is that that is indicative of a loss of texture. I have heard people using sand blasters to retexture caps, albeit in some really grazing way I'm sure, because a sand blaster would annihilate a key cap for sure.

I really want to do this. Retexture old sets! I know matte clear coat could do it, but that feels wrong.

id imagine it would work well if you used either a lower air pressure, or maybe less abrasive glass bead sandblasting, maybe baking soda sand blasting for a finer texture.

ABS and PBT both suck.


When shined. :3

I'm always so disappointed when vintage boards end up having shined caps. It's far too common. It's not so much that they are shiny as it is that that is indicative of a loss of texture. I have heard people using sand blasters to retexture caps, albeit in some really grazing way I'm sure, because a sand blaster would annihilate a key cap for sure.

I really want to do this. Retexture old sets! I know matte clear coat could do it, but that feels wrong.

I wonder if you clear coat the caps and then sand the majority of the coating off would end with good results.

I like both of these ideas. If the clear was something that could be wiped off with acetone, then that'd be fine for PBT. Like, I can see that as a temporary fix leading up to using a blaster for it. I love the idea of retexuring using a sandblaster. Truly a process that would require patience and experimentation, but it'd be an awesome way to restore otherwise awesome keysets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 16 January 2016, 09:01:39
Im just curious, what do people use arrow keys for? With programming, gaming, daily use, I've never found that I really use them or want them, much less need them.

How do you navigate around an Office (or the equivalent) document (Word, but especially Excel) quickly at a granular level without arrow keys? Or more infrequently but specifically, for quickly navigating around a BIOS screen. New PC motherboards come with graphical interfaces, but it feels just... wrong... to use a mouse there.

Just typing the above sentence, I used the arrow keys a bunch of times to add in the phrase contained in the first set of brackets.

The only other way I can think of to navigate is with a mouse, and that's really inefficient for moving the cursor small distances as taking a hand away from the keyboard detracts from fluid typing. And a mouse is nowhere near as quick+granular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 16 January 2016, 09:15:51
Im just curious, what do people use arrow keys for? With programming, gaming, daily use, I've never found that I really use them or want them, much less need them.
snip
I guess the point is that use cases differ. I tried to address that in my last post.

For example, I don't use any office suite on regular basis; I don't navigate BIOS settings either (well, more often than once in a few years anyway); I prefer to use emacs bindings in text editor (btw see It's All Text! extension for Firefox) and shell.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Sat, 16 January 2016, 09:23:06
Im just curious, what do people use arrow keys for? With programming, gaming, daily use, I've never found that I really use them or want them, much less need them.

How do you navigate around an Office (or the equivalent) document (Word, but especially Excel) quickly at a granular level without arrow keys? Or more infrequently but specifically, for quickly navigating around a BIOS screen. New PC motherboards come with graphical interfaces, but it feels just... wrong... to use a mouse there.

Just typing the above sentence, I used the arrow keys a bunch of times to add in the phrase contained in the first set of brackets.

The only other way I can think of to navigate is with a mouse, and that's really inefficient for moving the cursor small distances as taking a hand away from the keyboard detracts from fluid typing. And a mouse is nowhere near as quick+granular.

I'm onboard with ya! The basic american megatrends bios menu was all we needed!! GET YOUR MOUSE OUT OF MY BIOS SCREEN!!

(http://img.tomshardware.com/de/2006/11/14/bios-optimale_einstellungen_und_feintuning/bios20_big.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: phosphoric on Sat, 16 January 2016, 09:46:46




The HHKB Layout is designed for people who don't miss their dedicated arrow-key cluster, if you cant live without it, the HHKB is not the right board for you, perhaps you should take a look at the Leopold leopold fc660c instead. Also, using the DIP switches, you can turn the left Meta key into a FN key, that way you don't have to move all the way to the right.

HASU controller. It's all you need  :thumb:
oh yeah, i know, but either way i have to end up shifting my hand to the right for arrow keys. i love 60% boards, don't get me wrong, but having the arrow keys on ijkl  and my fn key on caps lock (on both my pok3r and custom alps64) has really spoiled me and made me too lazy to move my hand to the right 3 fingers hahaha


Hasu's controller is all you need then  ^-^

honestly i always just assumed that it was out of my price range and im too lazy to learn how to make one out of a teensy but i just checked the prices... and goddammit i have no excuse now

Yeah, quite affordable. better off just buying the controller than making one all day long when it comes to the HHKB.

i definitely agree - a $200+ keyboard doesnt deserve a messy, makeshift connection to a teensy

yup, my thoughts exactly
jk i thought about it and still dislike the layout of the hhkb. if there were two extra buttons on the bottom row...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Sat, 16 January 2016, 10:55:37
ABS and PBT both suck.


When shined. :3

I'm always so disappointed when vintage boards end up having shined caps. It's far too common. It's not so much that they are shiny as it is that that is indicative of a loss of texture. I have heard people using sand blasters to retexture caps, albeit in some really grazing way I'm sure, because a sand blaster would annihilate a key cap for sure.

I really want to do this. Retexture old sets! I know matte clear coat could do it, but that feels wrong.

I wonder if you clear coat the caps and then sand the majority of the coating off would end with good results.
Or maybe a quick shot of some textured spray paint? They have that rock like finish, they might be good with a quick spray on the top.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 16 January 2016, 13:09:00
ABS and PBT both suck.


When shined. :3

I'm always so disappointed when vintage boards end up having shined caps. It's far too common. It's not so much that they are shiny as it is that that is indicative of a loss of texture. I have heard people using sand blasters to retexture caps, albeit in some really grazing way I'm sure, because a sand blaster would annihilate a key cap for sure.

I really want to do this. Retexture old sets! I know matte clear coat could do it, but that feels wrong.

I wonder if you clear coat the caps and then sand the majority of the coating off would end with good results.
Or maybe a quick shot of some textured spray paint? They have that rock like finish, they might be good with a quick spray on the top.

I do not care about shine at all, but when it shows as spots on long key caps, specially on the space bar. The simple solution is to use PBT space bars always.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MeltingTeeth on Sat, 16 January 2016, 13:17:26
Paint on keys is rarely a good idea.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Sat, 16 January 2016, 14:37:12
Im just curious, what do people use arrow keys for? With programming, gaming, daily use, I've never found that I really use them or want them, much less need them.

How do you navigate around an Office (or the equivalent) document (Word, but especially Excel) quickly at a granular level without arrow keys? Or more infrequently but specifically, for quickly navigating around a BIOS screen. New PC motherboards come with graphical interfaces, but it feels just... wrong... to use a mouse there.

Just typing the above sentence, I used the arrow keys a bunch of times to add in the phrase contained in the first set of brackets.

The only other way I can think of to navigate is with a mouse, and that's really inefficient for moving the cursor small distances as taking a hand away from the keyboard detracts from fluid typing. And a mouse is nowhere near as quick+granular.

After I got the Duck Eagle the arrow keys were the main thing that I missed from my full size.  Since I have gotten it layered I love having them back for a lot of the reasons you mentioned, as well as for some games where it makes map navigation easier.  When I was using it at work it was a much bigger deal as I use Excel and tax software that relies a lot on the arrow keys but also the numpad, so I don't think that at this time I could use anything less than a full size there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whmeltonjr on Sat, 16 January 2016, 14:54:30
This feels like an unpopular opinion at times: I like Topre and Cherry.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Sat, 16 January 2016, 15:24:50
Here are a couple more unpopular opinions...



This feels like an unpopular opinion at times: I like Topre and Cherry.

I like Topre, and Cherry and IBM. But not Alps  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 16 January 2016, 15:59:13
Here are a couple more unpopular opinions...

  • I don't like the HHKB's case. I might have been spoiled by Cherry and IBM...
  • I have an issue with color on keyboards...very few times does it actually work correctly to be aesthetically pleasing, like RGBY and CMYW work for me but not CMYK (which is kind of interesting because C+M+Y = K). I suppose this is why I like beige and dolch so much...


This feels like an unpopular opinion at times: I like Topre and Cherry.

I like Topre, and Cherry and IBM. But not Alps  :p

These are not really unpopular opinions, it is only that people do not say them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Sat, 16 January 2016, 15:59:20
Im just curious, what do people use arrow keys for? With programming, gaming, daily use, I've never found that I really use them or want them, much less need them.

How do you navigate around an Office (or the equivalent) document (Word, but especially Excel) quickly at a granular level without arrow keys? Or more infrequently but specifically, for quickly navigating around a BIOS screen. New PC motherboards come with graphical interfaces, but it feels just... wrong... to use a mouse there.

Just typing the above sentence, I used the arrow keys a bunch of times to add in the phrase contained in the first set of brackets.

The only other way I can think of to navigate is with a mouse, and that's really inefficient for moving the cursor small distances as taking a hand away from the keyboard detracts from fluid typing. And a mouse is nowhere near as quick+granular.

After I got the Duck Eagle the arrow keys were the main thing that I missed from my full size.  Since I have gotten it layered I love having them back for a lot of the reasons you mentioned, as well as for some games where it makes map navigation easier.  When I was using it at work it was a much bigger deal as I use Excel and tax software that relies a lot on the arrow keys but also the numpad, so I don't think that at this time I could use anything less than a full size there.

Agreed on these points. For me, arrow keys for certain games that don't allow remapping or navigation in certain parts of games (such as the mentioned maps) is a factor. Also, text manipulation used separately or in tandem with my mouse word, notepad, forums, etc. I'll even sometimes use it to browse on web pages when I'm lazy (same deal with pg up/down).

Personally, I think that if the HHKB Pro 2 requires you to buy Hasu's controller to remap everything, then it's not the keyboard that you should be using, unless you really love the portability. I admit it's impressive how solid such a light and small keyboard feels, but I'm probably going to sell mine off.

I'm considering a HHKB Pro JP, but I will end up with both RF 87U 45G and 55G variants first.

This feels like an unpopular opinion at times: I like Topre and Cherry.

I like Topre and linear Cherry MX.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: joen on Sat, 16 January 2016, 16:18:04

Im just curious, what do people use arrow keys for? With programming, gaming, daily use, I've never found that I really use them or want them, much less need them.

How do you navigate around an Office (or the equivalent) document (Word, but especially Excel) quickly at a granular level without arrow keys? Or more infrequently but specifically, for quickly navigating around a BIOS screen. New PC motherboards come with graphical interfaces, but it feels just... wrong... to use a mouse there.

Just typing the above sentence, I used the arrow keys a bunch of times to add in the phrase contained in the first set of brackets.

The only other way I can think of to navigate is with a mouse, and that's really inefficient for moving the cursor small distances as taking a hand away from the keyboard detracts from fluid typing. And a mouse is nowhere near as quick+granular.

That's easy, just write everything in Vim :P

Jokes aside, I'm quite fine with using the fn-layer in the apps that don't support Vim bindings. I must admit that I spend about 95% of my time in Vim though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asgeirtj on Mon, 18 January 2016, 01:27:35
I think Topre feels like ****.  The realforce feels cheap as ****.  Loud rattly spacebar, the keycap profile sucks.  It's also ugly as ****.  I prefer my membrane to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 18 January 2016, 01:28:22
I think Topre feels like ****.  The realforce feels cheap as ****.  Loud rattly spacebar, the keycap profile sucks.  It's also ugly as ****.  I prefer my membrane to it.

Try HHKB.  I despised Topre until I tried the HHKB.  Realforce, 35g at least, just felt like **** to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Solo on Mon, 18 January 2016, 03:12:14
Dental banding an HHKB should be considered a federal offence. Think of the worst thing you've ever felt, and that's what a dental banded HHKB feels like. I bought my HHKB secondhand and its previous owner had defaced it with multicolored elastic rings. You better believe I ripped that b**** open and removed all of them when I received it. I did it so fast, the mailman hadn't even made it back to his truck before I reassembled the board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 18 January 2016, 03:15:57
Here are a couple more unpopular opinions...

  • I don't like the HHKB's case. I might have been spoiled by Cherry and IBM...
  • I have an issue with color on keyboards...very few times does it actually work correctly to be aesthetically pleasing, like RGBY and CMYW work for me but not CMYK (which is kind of interesting because C+M+Y = K). I suppose this is why I like beige and dolch so much...


This feels like an unpopular opinion at times: I like Topre and Cherry.

I like Topre, and Cherry and IBM. But not Alps  :p
Why you don't like alps?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 18 January 2016, 03:30:09
Here are a couple more unpopular opinions...

  • I don't like the HHKB's case. I might have been spoiled by Cherry and IBM...
  • I have an issue with color on keyboards...very few times does it actually work correctly to be aesthetically pleasing, like RGBY and CMYW work for me but not CMYK (which is kind of interesting because C+M+Y = K). I suppose this is why I like beige and dolch so much...


This feels like an unpopular opinion at times: I like Topre and Cherry.

I like Topre, and Cherry and IBM. But not Alps  :p
Why you don't like alps?

Ever see that movie Everest? Yeah those were his parents
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 18 January 2016, 08:40:41
I don't like Topre and I prefer Alps to Cherry.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 18 January 2016, 10:03:04
Here are a couple more unpopular opinions...

  • I don't like the HHKB's case. I might have been spoiled by Cherry and IBM...
  • I have an issue with color on keyboards...very few times does it actually work correctly to be aesthetically pleasing, like RGBY and CMYW work for me but not CMYK (which is kind of interesting because C+M+Y = K). I suppose this is why I like beige and dolch so much...


This feels like an unpopular opinion at times: I like Topre and Cherry.

I like Topre, and Cherry and IBM. But not Alps  :p
Why you don't like alps?

Ever see that movie Everest? Yeah those were his parents

Come on man, too soon.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 18 January 2016, 11:05:00
I think Topre feels like ****.  The realforce feels cheap as ****.  Loud rattly spacebar, the keycap profile sucks.  It's also ugly as ****.  I prefer my membrane to it.

HALF OF THE WEBSITE DOESN'T LIKE TOPRE
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 18 January 2016, 14:25:02
Dental banding an HHKB should be considered a federal offence. Think of the worst thing you've ever felt, and that's what a dental banded HHKB feels like. I bought my HHKB secondhand and its previous owner had defaced it with multicolored elastic rings. You better believe I ripped that b**** open and removed all of them when I received it. I did it so fast, the mailman hadn't even made it back to his truck before I reassembled the board.

Totally agree with this opinion  :thumb:

With the way things are going, i feel like soon keyboards will be second to stupid artisan talk. So my unpopular keyboard opinion of the day is that I care far more about keyboards than keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 18 January 2016, 14:25:59
Paint on keys is rarely a good idea.

Oh yeah, i have NEVER seen good lasting results from this, ever.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 18 January 2016, 16:10:31
Dental banding an HHKB should be considered a federal offence. Think of the worst thing you've ever felt, and that's what a dental banded HHKB feels like. I bought my HHKB secondhand and its previous owner had defaced it with multicolored elastic rings. You better believe I ripped that b**** open and removed all of them when I received it. I did it so fast, the mailman hadn't even made it back to his truck before I reassembled the board.

Totally agree with this opinion  :thumb:

With the way things are going, i feel like soon keyboards will be second to stupid artisan talk. So my unpopular keyboard opinion of the day is that I care far more about keyboards than keycaps.

Some threads, like the "what did you received in the mail today" have been about artisan pretty much every day, I wonder if the site should change its name to artisan's caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 18 January 2016, 16:13:02
Dental banding an HHKB should be considered a federal offence. Think of the worst thing you've ever felt, and that's what a dental banded HHKB feels like. I bought my HHKB secondhand and its previous owner had defaced it with multicolored elastic rings. You better believe I ripped that b**** open and removed all of them when I received it. I did it so fast, the mailman hadn't even made it back to his truck before I reassembled the board.

Totally agree with this opinion  :thumb:

With the way things are going, i feel like soon keyboards will be second to stupid artisan talk. So my unpopular keyboard opinion of the day is that I care far more about keyboards than keycaps.

Some threads, like the "what did you received in the mail today" have been about artisan pretty much every day, I wonder if the site should change its name to artisan's caps.

Hmmmm, artisans are the least important thing to me after keyboard and keysets.  I would much rather have a new keyset than a single artisan or even a couple artisans.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 18 January 2016, 16:16:23
Dental banding an HHKB should be considered a federal offence. Think of the worst thing you've ever felt, and that's what a dental banded HHKB feels like. I bought my HHKB secondhand and its previous owner had defaced it with multicolored elastic rings. You better believe I ripped that b**** open and removed all of them when I received it. I did it so fast, the mailman hadn't even made it back to his truck before I reassembled the board.

Totally agree with this opinion  :thumb:

With the way things are going, i feel like soon keyboards will be second to stupid artisan talk. So my unpopular keyboard opinion of the day is that I care far more about keyboards than keycaps.

Some threads, like the "what did you received in the mail today" have been about artisan pretty much every day, I wonder if the site should change its name to artisan's caps.

Hmmmm, artisans are the least important thing to me after keyboard and keysets.  I would much rather have a new keyset than a single artisan or even a couple artisans.

I respect people that like them, but artisan keycaps contribute to the bizarreness of the economy that exists within the keyboard community.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 18 January 2016, 16:25:29
Dental banding an HHKB should be considered a federal offence. Think of the worst thing you've ever felt, and that's what a dental banded HHKB feels like. I bought my HHKB secondhand and its previous owner had defaced it with multicolored elastic rings. You better believe I ripped that b**** open and removed all of them when I received it. I did it so fast, the mailman hadn't even made it back to his truck before I reassembled the board.

Totally agree with this opinion  :thumb:

With the way things are going, i feel like soon keyboards will be second to stupid artisan talk. So my unpopular keyboard opinion of the day is that I care far more about keyboards than keycaps.

Some threads, like the "what did you received in the mail today" have been about artisan pretty much every day, I wonder if the site should change its name to artisan's caps.

Hmmmm, artisans are the least important thing to me after keyboard and keysets.  I would much rather have a new keyset than a single artisan or even a couple artisans.

I respect people that like them, but artisan keycaps contribute to the bizarreness of the economy that exists within the keyboard community.

The thought of spending $100, $200, or even more for a single keycap still boggles my mind.  I really like some of the artisans out there but when I see these prices all I can think about is how I could get a whole keyset or a whole new keyboard for the price of a single keycap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 18 January 2016, 16:30:39
Dental banding an HHKB should be considered a federal offence. Think of the worst thing you've ever felt, and that's what a dental banded HHKB feels like. I bought my HHKB secondhand and its previous owner had defaced it with multicolored elastic rings. You better believe I ripped that b**** open and removed all of them when I received it. I did it so fast, the mailman hadn't even made it back to his truck before I reassembled the board.

Totally agree with this opinion  :thumb:

With the way things are going, i feel like soon keyboards will be second to stupid artisan talk. So my unpopular keyboard opinion of the day is that I care far more about keyboards than keycaps.

Some threads, like the "what did you received in the mail today" have been about artisan pretty much every day, I wonder if the site should change its name to artisan's caps.

Hmmmm, artisans are the least important thing to me after keyboard and keysets.  I would much rather have a new keyset than a single artisan or even a couple artisans.

I respect people that like them, but artisan keycaps contribute to the bizarreness of the economy that exists within the keyboard community.

The thought of spending $100, $200, or even more for a single keycap still boggles my mind.  I really like some of the artisans out there but when I see these prices all I can think about is how I could get a whole keyset or a whole new keyboard for the price of a single keycap.

That's economy madness, the question is what is in the mind of people buying them, Adam Smith may feel so uncomfortable with this weird economics lack of logic in his very own tomb.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 18 January 2016, 16:37:15
Dental banding an HHKB should be considered a federal offence. Think of the worst thing you've ever felt, and that's what a dental banded HHKB feels like. I bought my HHKB secondhand and its previous owner had defaced it with multicolored elastic rings. You better believe I ripped that b**** open and removed all of them when I received it. I did it so fast, the mailman hadn't even made it back to his truck before I reassembled the board.

Totally agree with this opinion  :thumb:

With the way things are going, i feel like soon keyboards will be second to stupid artisan talk. So my unpopular keyboard opinion of the day is that I care far more about keyboards than keycaps.

Some threads, like the "what did you received in the mail today" have been about artisan pretty much every day, I wonder if the site should change its name to artisan's caps.

Hmmmm, artisans are the least important thing to me after keyboard and keysets.  I would much rather have a new keyset than a single artisan or even a couple artisans.

I respect people that like them, but artisan keycaps contribute to the bizarreness of the economy that exists within the keyboard community.

The thought of spending $100, $200, or even more for a single keycap still boggles my mind.  I really like some of the artisans out there but when I see these prices all I can think about is how I could get a whole keyset or a whole new keyboard for the price of a single keycap.

That's economy madness, the question is what is in the mind of people buying them, Adam Smith may feel so uncomfortable with this weird economics lack of logic in his very own tomb.

Find a hobby and you will find that collectibles along with rarity do funny things to certain people, as evidenced by stuff like CS:GO skins, MTG cards, and even model trains.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 18 January 2016, 16:37:25
Dental banding an HHKB should be considered a federal offence. Think of the worst thing you've ever felt, and that's what a dental banded HHKB feels like. I bought my HHKB secondhand and its previous owner had defaced it with multicolored elastic rings. You better believe I ripped that b**** open and removed all of them when I received it. I did it so fast, the mailman hadn't even made it back to his truck before I reassembled the board.

Totally agree with this opinion  :thumb:

With the way things are going, i feel like soon keyboards will be second to stupid artisan talk. So my unpopular keyboard opinion of the day is that I care far more about keyboards than keycaps.

Some threads, like the "what did you received in the mail today" have been about artisan pretty much every day, I wonder if the site should change its name to artisan's caps.

Hmmmm, artisans are the least important thing to me after keyboard and keysets.  I would much rather have a new keyset than a single artisan or even a couple artisans.

I respect people that like them, but artisan keycaps contribute to the bizarreness of the economy that exists within the keyboard community.

Pretty much this. I'm not saying I don't enjoy the ones I have, but it is never a priority to me, and I surely would never pay $$$$ for a single cap when I have a hard enough time paying $$$ for a wicked cool keycap set.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Mon, 18 January 2016, 17:12:19
Artisans can be boiled down very simply, to be honest. It's a hobby for some, a breath of fresh air from years of talking about the same things within the mech kb sphere for others, art to be appreciated by many, and lastly - and this is the dangerous one - a potential impulse or obsession to collect or always "crave something else".

Of course, it's one more thing - it's a passion for those that create, like any artistic endeavour. I have found reading the posts from Binge on the creation process and seeing pictures of early sculpts from people like those of the recent reapers from Bro Caps fascinating - more interesting than actually owning them perhaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 20 January 2016, 08:09:43
Of course, it's one more thing - it's a passion for those that create, like any artistic endeavour.

I think it may be starting to become a cash grab for some. This link (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,cherrymxkeys&pid=cf5f_sku_3blk) always disheartens me when I see current prices.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 20 January 2016, 11:11:24
Of course, it's one more thing - it's a passion for those that create, like any artistic endeavour.

I think it may be starting to become a cash grab for some. This link (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,cherrymxkeys&pid=cf5f_sku_3blk) always disheartens me when I see current prices.

Wow, I never knew they were originally sold for such a low price.  Sucks that it has turned into a cash grab for some people, although I think that is partially due to the propensity of collectors to only want to trade their rare artisans for other rare artisans.  If people don't have caps that someone else wants, their only option is to pay much higher than retail to make it worthwhile for both parties.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Wed, 20 January 2016, 11:38:05
Sure, historically, they were much cheaper. If I recall correctly, the EK Blue I got from EK was probably something like $10.

I don't know the specifics when it comes to artisans, because I really haven't been around since 2011 and it's amazing to see how this all exploded in the years that have passed, but I do know Clack was never particularly interested in making large profit from the craft. What I can say is that in any collector's market, retail pricing will increase not because of greed, but to combat resellers attempting to make large profit off items. If the initial cost is more significant, the likelihood of resale for a profit becomes lessened. You can see this in virtually anything that is released and becomes collectible - for example, I've seen a lot of this in the limited edition "coloured" vinyl and boxsets bands were releasing in the past 10 or so years.

It can be argued that this has the opposite effect - pushing resale prices further up, but this isn't something directly observable in practice. The desirability of older items that have long since been produced simply continues to go up, and the pricing along with it.

Beyond this, the state of domestic and global markets has changed quite significantly over the past few years, and, as we all know, the cost of material typically continues to rise.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Homenubbie on Wed, 20 January 2016, 12:57:30
Of course, it's one more thing - it's a passion for those that create, like any artistic endeavour.

I think it may be starting to become a cash grab for some. This link (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,cherrymxkeys&pid=cf5f_sku_3blk) always disheartens me when I see current prices.

Clickclacks would make a great college fund!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: madhias on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:25:15
Having no mechanical keyboard right now by hand, and typing on the built in keyboard of a 2012 Macbook feels so great, and my typing speed is faster than on the keyboard used before.

(https://milleralex.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/son-i-am-disappoint.jpg?w=300&h=242)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:30:23
The fanboyism behind cherry is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:30:57
The fanboyism behind Topre on GH is ridiculous.

FTFY
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:32:10
You're ridiculous OnO
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:40:36
You're ridiculous OnO

I hate because I can't appreciate
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:51:39
You're ridiculous OnO

I hate because I can't appreciate

I'm gonna send you one of my hhkbs so you can try it out. Then you can buy your own and get ready of all things cherry. Just let me get some free time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 20 January 2016, 14:41:26
You're ridiculous OnO

I hate because I can't appreciate

I'm gonna send you one of my hhkbs so you can try it out. Then you can buy your own and get ready of all things cherry. Just let me get some free time.

But what if that turned me into a Topre fanboy?  Could I still sleep at night?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 20 January 2016, 14:54:47
Like a baby
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 20 January 2016, 15:41:33
Like a baby

So erratically with random points where I wake up because I **** my pants while sleeping?  Because that's how my baby sleeps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 20 January 2016, 15:45:06
Like a baby

So erratically with random points where I wake up because I **** my pants while sleeping?  Because that's how my baby sleeps.

Yeah I never understood that phrase.  Babies suck at sleeping.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Wed, 20 January 2016, 15:45:18
* DSA is ridiculous. It is literally like having OEM profile home row keys all over the board.
* Matrix layout is not ergonomic. At all.
* Alps' Black and Cream force curve with its high actuation point and drop is at fault for rubber domes getting popular.
* You have to mod Cherry MX to make them feel good, and that SUCKS.
* ErgoDox is overrated.
* Cherry MX Red are stupid.
* Buckling springs are overrated.
* Heavier keyboard does NOT make for a better typing experience.
* Plate-mounting Cherry MX does not make it better.
* Lower profile is better.
* Cherry stabilisers > Costar stabilisers.
* Most scissor switches that are not super-cheap have a higher feel of quality than Cherry MX or Alps, because they are more stabilised.
* Clacks look like the super-cheap toys you get in a cereal box or with cheap candy you buy at a shady place. You could just as well buy action figures or Lego minifigs and place them next to the keyboard - it is cheaper, they usually look much better and you could actually type on the keys if they have proper keycaps instead.

(http://i.imgur.com/YZDt2u9.gif)

edgy

- i clicked on the wrong page and thought this was the most recent rip me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zapheo on Wed, 20 January 2016, 15:49:37
* DSA is ridiculous. It is literally like having OEM profile home row keys all over the board.
* Matrix layout is not ergonomic. At all.
* Alps' Black and Cream force curve with its high actuation point and drop is at fault for rubber domes getting popular.
* You have to mod Cherry MX to make them feel good, and that SUCKS.
* ErgoDox is overrated.
* Cherry MX Red are stupid.
* Buckling springs are overrated.
* Heavier keyboard does NOT make for a better typing experience.
* Plate-mounting Cherry MX does not make it better.
* Lower profile is better.
* Cherry stabilisers > Costar stabilisers.
* Most scissor switches that are not super-cheap have a higher feel of quality than Cherry MX or Alps, because they are more stabilised.
* Clacks look like the super-cheap toys you get in a cereal box or with cheap candy you buy at a shady place. You could just as well buy action figures or Lego minifigs and place them next to the keyboard - it is cheaper, they usually look much better and you could actually type on the keys if they have proper keycaps instead.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/YZDt2u9.gif)


edgy

- i clicked on the wrong page and thought this was the most recent rip me

I wonder how these opinions hold over a year later. Probably the same?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 20 January 2016, 15:50:16
Like a baby

So erratically with random points where I wake up because I **** my pants while sleeping?  Because that's how my baby sleeps.

Yeah I never understood that phrase.  Babies suck at sleeping.

My baby is actually pretty good when sleeping as I still average around 7 hours of sleep a night, but that's certainly not the norm.  Maybe the phrase should be "Sleep like someone who drank a ****-load of Nyquil" but it doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 20 January 2016, 16:12:34
Like a baby

So erratically with random points where I wake up because I **** my pants while sleeping?  Because that's how my baby sleeps.
The keyboard is so great you will **** your pants with anticipation to start using it for the day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 20 January 2016, 16:45:20
Like a baby

So erratically with random points where I wake up because I **** my pants while sleeping?  Because that's how my baby sleeps.
The keyboard is so great you will **** your pants with anticipation to start using it for the day.

Topre should trademark that and use it for marketing purposes.  You could even get royalties!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Wed, 20 January 2016, 16:56:56
* DSA is ridiculous. It is literally like having OEM profile home row keys all over the board.
* Matrix layout is not ergonomic. At all.
* Alps' Black and Cream force curve with its high actuation point and drop is at fault for rubber domes getting popular.
* You have to mod Cherry MX to make them feel good, and that SUCKS.
* ErgoDox is overrated.
* Cherry MX Red are stupid.
* Buckling springs are overrated.
* Heavier keyboard does NOT make for a better typing experience.
* Plate-mounting Cherry MX does not make it better.
* Lower profile is better.
* Cherry stabilisers > Costar stabilisers.
* Most scissor switches that are not super-cheap have a higher feel of quality than Cherry MX or Alps, because they are more stabilised.
* Clacks look like the super-cheap toys you get in a cereal box or with cheap candy you buy at a shady place. You could just as well buy action figures or Lego minifigs and place them next to the keyboard - it is cheaper, they usually look much better and you could actually type on the keys if they have proper keycaps instead.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/YZDt2u9.gif)


edgy

- i clicked on the wrong page and thought this was the most recent rip me

I wonder how these opinions hold over a year later. Probably the same?

I agree with almost every opinion, except 2 or 3 (well, let's call it 1.5). BS is overrated because it's all pretty much the same, but the F62 is a gamechanger. But still worth having at least one around.

Some clacks are truly nice, like ogres and the keypacitor. Skulls are overrated, blanks would fit well the "toy box" description.

PCB mount vintage blacks are ok stock. I want to mod but that's just my preference.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Glod on Thu, 21 January 2016, 02:34:18
Redacted.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 21 January 2016, 04:04:28
Here are a couple more unpopular opinions...

  • I don't like the HHKB's case. I might have been spoiled by Cherry and IBM...
  • I have an issue with color on keyboards...very few times does it actually work correctly to be aesthetically pleasing, like RGBY and CMYW work for me but not CMYK (which is kind of interesting because C+M+Y = K). I suppose this is why I like beige and dolch so much...


This feels like an unpopular opinion at times: I like Topre and Cherry.

I like Topre, and Cherry and IBM. But not Alps  :p
Why you don't like alps?

Ever see that movie Everest? Yeah those were his parents
I'm sorry jerue.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 27 January 2016, 18:51:09
Not sure how unpopular this is as of now since I haven't heard to many opinions on it, but the new Cherry logo is ugly as sin
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 27 January 2016, 19:01:30
Not sure how unpopular this is as of now since I haven't heard to many opinions on it, but the new Cherry logo is ugly as sin

while quite a few are interested in getting them made the prevailing consensus has been that the older ones were way better

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 27 January 2016, 19:32:55
This one seems unpopular based upon how buys are run, but any custom keyboards should either have really available PCBs or they should allow you to purchase extra PCBs and, if the design requires them, plates as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 27 January 2016, 19:34:12
This one seems unpopular based upon how buys are run, but any custom keyboards should either have really available PCBs or they should allow you to purchase extra PCBs and, if the design requires them, plates as well.

+1 would suck so hard to botch a PCB and be SOL on a $400+ case paperweight.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 27 January 2016, 19:34:28
This one seems unpopular based upon how buys are run, but any custom keyboards should either have really available PCBs or they should allow you to purchase extra PCBs and, if the design requires them, plates as well.

I agree with that, I honestly may just start picking up spares when I can because something can always go wrong.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 28 January 2016, 09:03:20
This one seems unpopular based upon how buys are run, but any custom keyboards should either have really available PCBs or they should allow you to purchase extra PCBs and, if the design requires them, plates as well.
This is really a good idea!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: robbles on Sun, 31 January 2016, 22:06:15
I think flipped spacebars looks really bad and feel terrible. When I first went mech I flipped my spacebar because I wasn't used to how it felt, but it didn't take me long to flip it back. Not sure if this is that unpopular, but when I see pics of nice looking boards with flipped spacebars it irks me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 31 January 2016, 22:50:28
I think flipped spacebars looks really bad and feel terrible. When I first went mech I flipped my spacebar because I wasn't used to how it felt, but it didn't take me long to flip it back. Not sure if this is that unpopular, but when I see pics of nice looking boards with flipped spacebars it irks me.

more people like them regular rather than flipped
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 January 2016, 23:51:58
I think flipped spacebars looks really bad and feel terrible. When I first went mech I flipped my spacebar because I wasn't used to how it felt, but it didn't take me long to flip it back. Not sure if this is that unpopular, but when I see pics of nice looking boards with flipped spacebars it irks me.

more people like them regular rather than flipped

Yep, this is true.

I never gelled with the whole flipped thing as I never had any real issues with the space bars as they are.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 01 February 2016, 02:11:18
I don't like blue alps but loves orange alps
blue alps is just really crisp and tactile and I don't like that
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fiery on Mon, 01 February 2016, 03:10:27
iso enter is terrible but looks good, ansi right shift is too big, caps lock should be backspace. QWERTY is bad and dvorak and other layouts should replace it as its outdated and uncomfortable. is this unpopular?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fanpeople on Mon, 01 February 2016, 03:17:00
caps lock should be backspace.

You sir might be onto something there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fiery on Mon, 01 February 2016, 03:29:05
caps lock should be backspace.

You sir might be onto something there.

I know lol. it allows you to simply move your pinky slightly to the left instead of your whole hand to the right, very useful. so I do reccomend it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fanpeople on Mon, 01 February 2016, 05:33:20
caps lock should be backspace.

You sir might be onto something there.

I know lol. it allows you to simply move your pinky slightly to the left instead of your whole hand to the right, very useful. so I do reccomend it.

I am going to try this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fiery on Mon, 01 February 2016, 05:37:00
caps lock should be backspace.

You sir might be onto something there.

I know lol. it allows you to simply move your pinky slightly to the left instead of your whole hand to the right, very useful. so I do reccomend it.

I am going to try this.

tell me how it goes also in windows you can use something called sharpkeys to change the registry to do this and make backspace caps-lock
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Mon, 01 February 2016, 07:01:04
I think flipped spacebars looks really bad and feel terrible. When I first went mech I flipped my spacebar because I wasn't used to how it felt, but it didn't take me long to flip it back. Not sure if this is that unpopular, but when I see pics of nice looking boards with flipped spacebars it irks me.

more people like them regular rather than flipped

Yep, this is true.

I never gelled with the whole flipped thing as I never had any real issues with the space bars as they are.

Depends on the caps. TaiHao and Leopold have quite sharp edges, and the TaiHao also is quite tall, so I like to flip the spacebars on those. GMK is better unflipped.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 01 February 2016, 09:28:11
I think flipped spacebars looks really bad and feel terrible. When I first went mech I flipped my spacebar because I wasn't used to how it felt, but it didn't take me long to flip it back. Not sure if this is that unpopular, but when I see pics of nice looking boards with flipped spacebars it irks me.

more people like them regular rather than flipped

Yep, this is true.

I never gelled with the whole flipped thing as I never had any real issues with the space bars as they are.

Depends on the caps. TaiHao and Leopold have quite sharp edges, and the TaiHao also is quite tall, so I like to flip the spacebars on those. GMK is better unflipped.

This. YMMV, but on my HHKB, the edge on the spacebar is very hard and I notice it everytime I press it. So I've reversed it and now it feels much better. But on my KUL I don't feel the need. I think it also depends on the profile of the rows. The HHKB feels like it is a u-shape, where the first row where the spacebar is is more straight up than on regular mx boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: calvinhousecat on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:36:05
You're ridiculous OnO

I hate because I can't appreciate

I'm gonna send you one of my hhkbs so you can try it out. Then you can buy your own and get ready of all things cherry. Just let me get some free time.

Can I actually get in on this? Like I'm using a Novatouch atm and have not touched a HHKB yet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frogthejam19 on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:18:29
I hate the sound of a amodel M even if im the person typing on it. But , I love the feels though!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 01 February 2016, 14:26:39
Apple's original first aluminum chiclet keyboard with numpad was really really good and solid, still have it laying around. The rest after that is complete garbage, worst amongst the worst. Why o why do companies always need to cut corners.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mick Jogger on Mon, 01 February 2016, 14:54:57
Got to say: I really like typing on the Apple Chiclet.

We use them at work. I can type really fast with those. Probably pretty unpopular opinion :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Mon, 01 February 2016, 14:57:57
You're ridiculous OnO

I hate because I can't appreciate

I'm gonna send you one of my hhkbs so you can try it out. Then you can buy your own and get ready of all things cherry. Just let me get some free time.

Can I actually get in on this? Like I'm using a Novatouch atm and have not touched a HHKB yet.

Yes. I'll make a thread tonight. With a special surprise!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: calvinhousecat on Mon, 01 February 2016, 15:01:19
You're ridiculous OnO

I hate because I can't appreciate

I'm gonna send you one of my hhkbs so you can try it out. Then you can buy your own and get ready of all things cherry. Just let me get some free time.

Can I actually get in on this? Like I'm using a Novatouch atm and have not touched a HHKB yet.

Yes. I'll make a thread tonight. With a special surprise!

Awesome, I can't wait!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 01 February 2016, 15:15:39
Got to say: I really like typing on the Apple Chiclet.

We use them at work. I can type really fast with those. Probably pretty unpopular opinion :D

I have them in my macbook pro 2010 as well. They are great on the go. But for longer stretches I still want my mech keyboard. Though I do see the appeal of the short travel in the chiclets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 15:32:12
Not a big fan of the Alps Plate Spring switch. It just feels odd to me, but then it might feel more at home to people used to buckling springs or beam springs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 01 February 2016, 15:44:46
caps lock should be backspace.

You sir might be onto something there.
Yep, now I'm reconsidering my previous plan of remapping my caps lock to a fn key.  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 01 February 2016, 18:28:03
A good quality rubber dome can feel quite good; there's a really snappy board at work & the sounds and feel is really good.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 18:44:46
A good quality rubber dome can feel quite good; there's a really snappy board at work & the sounds and feel is really good.

I love scissor switches. More than typing on mechanical at times. Especially because it's easy on the joints, but also because of the tactile feeling and smoothness. Never found them unpleasant TBH.

The rubber domes on my ****ty microsoft keyboard, however, can burn.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 01 February 2016, 18:54:08
A good quality rubber dome can feel quite good; there's a really snappy board at work & the sounds and feel is really good.

Do you mean a Topre?  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 01 February 2016, 18:54:45
A good quality rubber dome can feel quite good; there's a really snappy board at work & the sounds and feel is really good.

Do you mean a Topre?  :p

Still don't have one - soon.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frogthejam19 on Mon, 01 February 2016, 18:57:33
A good quality rubber dome can feel quite good; there's a really snappy board at work & the sounds and feel is really good.

Do you mean a Topre?  :p

Still don't have one - soon.

I still like my orginal rubber dome I got for 20 bucks off amazon.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 01 February 2016, 18:58:43
A good quality rubber dome can feel quite good; there's a really snappy board at work & the sounds and feel is really good.

Do you mean a Topre?  :p

Still don't have one - soon.

I still like my orginal rubber dome I got for 20 bucks off amazon.

The work board is $10, the design is really nice too. Shame I can't get some sneak pictures as the sides are never shown on the internet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 01 February 2016, 19:46:00
A good quality rubber dome can feel quite good; there's a really snappy board at work & the sounds and feel is really good.

Do you mean a Topre?  :p

Still don't have one - soon.

I still like my orginal rubber dome I got for 20 bucks off amazon.

The work board is $10, the design is really nice too. Shame I can't get some sneak pictures as the sides are never shown on the internet.

Rubber dome boards come with very low quality key caps, that alone, makes a mechanical custom worth it, if I will be typing for hours on one I'd prefer it to be a good looking one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Mon, 01 February 2016, 20:06:31
Got to say: I really like typing on the Apple Chiclet.

We use them at work. I can type really fast with those. Probably pretty unpopular opinion :D

Instaban!  :eek:

Actually I have one too that I really like. I'd say I type fastest on it, it's very tactile, smooth, and extremely quiet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 02 February 2016, 05:52:18
Got to say: I really like typing on the Apple Chiclet.

We use them at work. I can type really fast with those. Probably pretty unpopular opinion :D

Instaban!  :eek:

Actually I have one too that I really like. I'd say I type fastest on it, it's very tactile, smooth, and extremely quiet.

Have you tried the newest? With the tapered design and the charging?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:58:40
I think Topre feels like ****.  The realforce feels cheap as ****.  Loud rattly spacebar, the keycap profile sucks.  It's also ugly as ****.  I prefer my membrane to it.

i was gonna say something, but then i looked at your sig, now i just feel bad for you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 03 February 2016, 17:06:57
I think Topre feels like ****.  The realforce feels cheap as ****.  Loud rattly spacebar, the keycap profile sucks.  It's also ugly as ****.  I prefer my membrane to it.

i was gonna say something, but then i looked at your sig, now i just feel bad for you.

This is like the keyboard version of your parents saying, "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed."
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 03 February 2016, 17:35:42
I think Topre feels like ****.  The realforce feels cheap as ****.  Loud rattly spacebar, the keycap profile sucks.  It's also ugly as ****.  I prefer my membrane to it.

i was gonna say something, but then i looked at your sig, now i just feel bad for you.
   
This is like the keyboard version of your parents saying, "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed."
     I learned how to HTML on a buckling spring keyboard my older brother let me borrow. I kind of miss the sound of a loud spacebar. I think the first computer I built had a buckling spring keyboard as well. The more I read on this forum the more I warm up to Topre. Sigh.   
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Wed, 03 February 2016, 17:39:44
I think Topre feels like ****.  The realforce feels cheap as ****.  Loud rattly spacebar, the keycap profile sucks.  It's also ugly as ****.  I prefer my membrane to it.

i was gonna say something, but then i looked at your sig, now i just feel bad for you.

I think your constant talk of the HHKB is going to make me get one when I get back into the kb game. I hope it is endgame so I can stay lowkey money wise :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:33:04
I think Topre feels like ****.  The realforce feels cheap as ****.  Loud rattly spacebar, the keycap profile sucks.  It's also ugly as ****.  I prefer my membrane to it.

i was gonna say something, but then i looked at your sig, now i just feel bad for you.

I think your constant talk of the HHKB is going to make me get one when I get back into the kb game. I hope it is endgame so I can stay lowkey money wise :confused:

Man, I've already hit endgame with my 60% Alps board, and yet...

I still want more; it's not even about endgame anymore. Haha. I am 100% satisfied with my Hammer Alps board, but that doesn't matter.

It's hard to get out of this game unless you just seriously step out and stop paying attention to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:35:23
Man, I've already hit endgame with my 60% Alps board, and yet...

The secret is there is no endgame. You just find a board that you're satisfied with for a certain period of time until something new comes along. ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:08:25
Man, I've already hit endgame with my 60% Alps board, and yet...

The secret is there is no endgame. You just find a board that you're satisfied with for a certain period of time until something new comes along. ;)

Haha. It's always nice finding something new! Of course, there's no denying that this one will probably always have a special place with me though, so that increases its well... stability as a favorite (good synonym for endgame, huh? ;) ), haha.

However, I definitely agree! I like keeping up with all the new and awesomely innovative things coming out in keyboard land.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lootbag on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:08:28
The secret is there is no endgame. You just find a board that you're satisfied with for a certain period of time until something new comes along. ;)

Truth.

I bought an HHKB and disappeared from GH for 3.5 years. One day I wanted to replace some keycaps on the HHKB so I logged into GH and now... I have an 87U 55g and a Duck on the way.

Disaster strikes  :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chipotle on Thu, 04 February 2016, 01:41:34
Have you tried the newest? With the tapered design and the charging?

I have, albeit not for very long. I really don't like them. The keys are stable and have a kind of tactile "snap" to them that's neat, but there's just not enough key travel. The aluminum Apple keyboards have 2mm travel; the Magic Keyboard only has 1mm.

I have a Magic Keyboard on the way, ironically, because I have a new iMac on the way. But I'm going to keep my RF87 as my main driver. (I might give the new trackpad a serious try, though...)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:18:21
The secret is there is no endgame. You just find a board that you're satisfied with for a certain period of time until something new comes along. ;)

Truth.

I bought an HHKB and disappeared from GH for 3.5 years. One day I wanted to replace some keycaps on the HHKB so I logged into GH and now... I have an 87U 55g and a Duck on the way.

Disaster strikes  :)

Disaster? Brooo the 87U 55g is awesome! I have it since yesterday and I love it. You're gonna love it!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:21:59
I have enough with only two boards and a couple of OG Cherry key cap sets to dress them up. Is this unpopular enough?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 04 February 2016, 10:24:26
I have enough with only two boards and a couple of OG Cherry key cap sets to dress them up. Is this unpopular enough?

not really I could quit the hobby with SQ and MX-5000 but it's pleasant to build nice boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 04 February 2016, 10:26:48
I have enough with only two boards and a couple of OG Cherry key cap sets to dress them up. Is this unpopular enough?

not really I could quit the hobby with SQ and MX-5000 but it's pleasant to build nice boards.

I can get some fun rebuilding the existing ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 04 February 2016, 10:42:23
DOLCH is ugly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 10:45:17
DELL sucks. HP sucks. They are soulless, faceless, profit-seeking, clueless companies that have no taste and do not know how to build quality products without compromises.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 04 February 2016, 10:49:31
DELL sucks. HP sucks. They are soulless, faceless, profit-seeking, clueless companies that have no taste and do not know how to build quality products without compromises.

When you already control a market there's no need to innovate. Quantity over quality, unfortunately.  :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 04 February 2016, 11:06:06
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 04 February 2016, 11:08:01
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.

If you think a perfect keyboard exists in the first place, you will have lots of issues, mainly with the wallet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 04 February 2016, 11:09:03
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.

If you think a perfect keyboard exists in the first place, you will have lots of issues, mainly with the wallet.

HHKB is not that expensive. Your wallet will be fine, hhkb is the perfect keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 04 February 2016, 11:23:54
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.

If you think a perfect keyboard exists in the first place, you will have lots of issues, mainly with the wallet.

HHKB is not that expensive. Your wallet will be fine, hhkb is the perfect keyboard.

It is almost perfect. It does need better rubber feet ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 04 February 2016, 11:27:42
Type softly and it won't move around. User error!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 04 February 2016, 12:22:22
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.

If you think a perfect keyboard exists in the first place, you will have lots of issues, mainly with the wallet.

HHKB is not that expensive. Your wallet will be fine, hhkb is the perfect keyboard.

It is almost perfect. It does need better rubber feet ;)

Do not be confused, the lack of feet is not a mistake, it is all intentional: Having it moving around the desk all the time is part of its perfectness.

 :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 04 February 2016, 12:29:52
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.

If you think a perfect keyboard exists in the first place, you will have lots of issues, mainly with the wallet.

HHKB is not that expensive. Your wallet will be fine, hhkb is the perfect keyboard.

It is almost perfect. It does need better rubber feet ;)

Do not be confused, the lack of feet is not a mistake, it is all intentional: Having it moving around the desk all the time is part of its perfectness.

 :)) :)) :))

hm, i guess there are days where the only workout I get is chasing my HHKB all over my desk. Keeping me healthy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:30:10
Type softly and it won't move around. User error!

PEBKAC!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:30:46
DELL sucks. HP sucks. They are soulless, faceless, profit-seeking, clueless companies that have no taste and do not know how to build quality products without compromises.

When you already control a market there's no need to innovate. Quantity over quality, unfortunately.  :(

Sad but true.. :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:43:36
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.

If you think a perfect keyboard exists in the first place, you will have lots of issues, mainly with the wallet.

HHKB is not that expensive. Your wallet will be fine, hhkb is the perfect keyboard.

It is almost perfect. It does need better rubber feet ;)
In my searches I found this..
(http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/227-large_default/aluminium-legs.jpg)
:cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:53:10
DELL sucks. HP sucks. They are soulless, faceless, profit-seeking, clueless companies that have no taste and do not know how to build quality products without compromises.

When you already control a market there's no need to innovate. Quantity over quality, unfortunately.  :(

Sad but true.. :(

The Skylake (Gen6) iteration of the XPS 13 / 15 are rather fantastic IMO. For the past few generations, they've improved leaps and bounds.

Also, there's this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9923/dell-demonstrates-30inch-4k-oled-display
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 04 February 2016, 14:03:32
DELL sucks. HP sucks. They are soulless, faceless, profit-seeking, clueless companies that have no taste and do not know how to build quality products without compromises.

When you already control a market there's no need to innovate. Quantity over quality, unfortunately.  :(

Sad but true.. :(

The Skylake (Gen6) iteration of the XPS 13 / 15 are rather fantastic IMO. For the past few generations, they've improved leaps and bounds.

Also, there's this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9923/dell-demonstrates-30inch-4k-oled-display

Phew once oled matches IPS color and price  :eek: Dell was a workhorse for as far back as I can remember.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 15:24:46
DELL sucks. HP sucks. They are soulless, faceless, profit-seeking, clueless companies that have no taste and do not know how to build quality products without compromises.

When you already control a market there's no need to innovate. Quantity over quality, unfortunately.  :(

Sad but true.. :(

The Skylake (Gen6) iteration of the XPS 13 / 15 are rather fantastic IMO. For the past few generations, they've improved leaps and bounds.

Also, there's this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9923/dell-demonstrates-30inch-4k-oled-display

Not until you look closely. Go look for issues with the current gen XPS 13 / 15. Coil whine.. QC issues. Unsupportive customer service (at least in US). Same old same old.

As for the displays, I'm also underwhelmed. I use a U2713HM myself after careful research for months: great panel, same as in Apple Cinema Display and great uniformity.

But the latest panels (U2715*) have great uniformity issues (see TFTCentral). Why? They actually managed to DEGRADE the quality of their screens. This annoys me. The upside is they still do not use PWM.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 04 February 2016, 18:31:01
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.

If you think a perfect keyboard exists in the first place, you will have lots of issues, mainly with the wallet.

HHKB is not that expensive. Your wallet will be fine, hhkb is the perfect keyboard.

It is almost perfect. It does need better rubber feet ;)

moose found some really great rubber plugs you can put in the screw holes that help with this.  :thumb:  Unfortunately, not sure where they're from.  :|
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Thu, 04 February 2016, 18:46:25
DELL sucks. HP sucks. They are soulless, faceless, profit-seeking, clueless companies that have no taste and do not know how to build quality products without compromises.

When you already control a market there's no need to innovate. Quantity over quality, unfortunately.  :(

Sad but true.. :(

The Skylake (Gen6) iteration of the XPS 13 / 15 are rather fantastic IMO. For the past few generations, they've improved leaps and bounds.

Also, there's this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9923/dell-demonstrates-30inch-4k-oled-display

Not until you look closely. Go look for issues with the current gen XPS 13 / 15. Coil whine.. QC issues. Unsupportive customer service (at least in US). Same old same old.

As for the displays, I'm also underwhelmed. I use a U2713HM myself after careful research for months: great panel, same as in Apple Cinema Display and great uniformity.

But the latest panels (U2715*) have great uniformity issues (see TFTCentral). Why? They actually managed to DEGRADE the quality of their screens. This annoys me. The upside is they still do not use PWM.

Almost every monitor on the market is prone to a QC issue of some sort. Backlight bleed, uniformity issues, yellow tint, even dust behind the panel. Dell is not the manufacturer of panels and, much like other brands, is at the mercy of the panel manufacturer, of which there are only a select few. My Eizo Foris FG2421, Acer XB270HU, and Asus PG279Q were all junk. The PG279Q was actually the worst (had all the issues I mentioned above). Finally got a decent panel with my XB271HU (XB1).

People are even reporting displeasure with NEC and Eizo monitors these days, as well as their support... it's something plaguing the industry as a whole.

I've heard and seen more reports of QC issues with Surface Pro models than XPS to be honest (throttling/thermal issues primarily), but I'll keep an eye out for these XPS issues. One thing that irks me is the fact that Intel & Microsoft made a big deal about the jointed development in parallel of Skylake / Windows 10, yet both the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book lack TB3... that's a glaring omission. External graphics via TB is starting to take off, so this was a missed opportunity.
Still haven't seen Speed Shift working on my 6700K either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 05 February 2016, 03:50:28
People are even reporting displeasure with NEC and Eizo monitors these days, as well as their support... it's something plaguing the industry as a whole.
i thought nec and eizo make professional grade monitors? if even they have issues, what can we expect from mainstream/consumer grade brands..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andysun on Fri, 05 February 2016, 04:33:41
RGB/CMY mods are horrible and ruin a keyboard's aesthetics.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 05 February 2016, 04:40:02
the yellow is the only problem color imo
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:24:30
People are even reporting displeasure with NEC and Eizo monitors these days, as well as their support... it's something plaguing the industry as a whole.
i thought nec and eizo make professional grade monitors? if even they have issues, what can we expect from mainstream/consumer grade brands..

PC Monitors suck, PC Laptops suck overall. Every single alternative product has compromises in the wrong places IMHO. I've went through almost ALL monitors (IPS, IPVA, 24", 27", 30", Dell, HP, Eizo, IIyama, Acer, Asus, BenQ), did my homework and concluded I cannot buy a new monitor today that satisfies my needs. It's either PWM, uniformity issues, firmware issues, backlight bleed, extreme greyshift (VA-panels), banding (VA-panels), wobbly stand, incomplete, connectivity. Seems the customer can't just win with a monitor.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fullcream on Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:30:08
Haha so many of these keyboards with what some manufacturers call “floating keys” like poker3, varmilo, magicforce. And I think people are actually desiring this look. So many fancy korean customs I see have this incomplete half case LOL. I wonder if it is a custom and it looks like that I really hope that it's just missing a top case or something and the owner has not yet gotten around to affording a top case yet? Are top cases even a thing?

(I dont know anything about customs because I've never desired programmability or all those other things)

Anyway so yeah I get the feeling some people are not realizing that it is obviously far cheaper for manufacturers to only produce half a case. “but look it's so cool you can see the side of the switches so other people will be curious about my keyboard and they can see that it's actually a mechanical one!”
Haha it looks terrible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:58:33
Haha so many of these keyboards with what some manufacturers call “floating keys” like poker3, varmilo, magicforce. And I think people are actually desiring this look. So many fancy korean customs I see have this incomplete half case LOL. I wonder if it is a custom and it looks like that I really hope that it's just missing a top case or something and the owner has not yet gotten around to affording a top case yet? Are top cases even a thing?

(I dont know anything about customs because I've never desired programmability or all those other things)

Anyway so yeah I get the feeling some people are not realizing that it is obviously far cheaper for manufacturers to only produce half a case. “but look it's so cool you can see the side of the switches so other people will be curious about my keyboard and they can see that it's actually a mechanical one!”
Haha it looks terrible.

Yeah, it makes sense what you're saying. But I also like the look of the pok3r. That the switches are almost on the edge of the case.. it has something minimalistic to it like the see-through plastic apple keyboards of the day I guess

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Apple_Keyboard_A1016_Russian.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Fri, 05 February 2016, 06:09:40
RGB/CMY mods are horrible and ruin a keyboard's aesthetics.

I have to agree on this one, bought CYMW and hate it on TA/JTK sets. Might look nice with Dolch but that kind of destroys the sole reason of Dolch being simple.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 05 February 2016, 07:10:17
Pulse looks terrible, Midnight and Calm Depths too. Black and blue do not go well together people.

Deskthority Rounds are literally the most goregous SA sets ever constructed, why anyone else even bothers I will never know.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Fri, 05 February 2016, 07:11:30
Pulse looks terrible, Midnight and Calm Depths too. Black and blue do not go well together people.

Deskthority Rounds are literally the most goregous SA sets ever constructed, why anyone else even bothers I will never know.

DT Rounds are some of the best looking sets to be fair, they put black/blue to shame
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 05 February 2016, 07:13:40
Pulse looks terrible, Midnight and Calm Depths too. Black and blue do not go well together people.

Deskthority Rounds are literally the most goregous SA sets ever constructed, why anyone else even bothers I will never know.

Opinions on aesthetics are neither unpopular nor popular, are just one of many likes or dislikes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 05 February 2016, 07:27:08


Pulse looks terrible, Midnight and Calm Depths too. Black and blue do not go well together people.

Deskthority Rounds are literally the most goregous SA sets ever constructed, why anyone else even bothers I will never know.

Opinions on aesthetics are neither unpopular nor popular, are just one of many likes or dislikes.

(https://i1.wp.com/www.playerattack.com/imagery/2015/10/thumbs-up-gif.gif)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 05 February 2016, 07:49:13
PC Monitors suck, PC Laptops suck overall. Every single alternative product has compromises in the wrong places IMHO
yep, monitors released in the past 3-4 years are woefully imbalanced qualitywise. have you tried a high refresh rate screen?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mobbo on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:15:52
I bought a Topre board.

It was ok.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:26:36
Let's hear them.

I'll start off.

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

2. I think HHKB boards are overrated, and the layout dumber than a Poker. I think custom MX, HHKB layout boards are just as stupid (Viper, Happy).

3. I think Topre is overrated, and lower quality than MX (despite the higher price) as the board tends to get stiffer over time.

1. agreed.
2. same with no 1, i think. 60% keyboard are no go for me.
3. disagree. i used my topre since '2012 ish and didn't have any problems about stiffer membrane.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:43:21
The rubber can probably dry out over time if the keyboard is used in a drier climate to begin with. I really don't think general usage is what causes the problem some people report.

@mobbo - why you breakin' my heart, man?

People are even reporting displeasure with NEC and Eizo monitors these days, as well as their support... it's something plaguing the industry as a whole.
i thought nec and eizo make professional grade monitors? if even they have issues, what can we expect from mainstream/consumer grade brands..

Yes, but many of them still use PWM, such as the otherwise excellent CX271. Research and documentation of this severely affecting some people really only gained prominence within the past 4 years or so.

Professional monitors with defects will require support, too. This is where EIZO and NEC seem to be falling short compared to the past. I'm sure they are still far beyond other brands, but there's been a decline that cannot be ignored.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mobbo on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:45:15
The rubber can probably dry out over time if the keyboard is used in a drier climate to begin with. I really don't think general usage is what causes the problem some people report.

@mobbo - why you breakin' my heart, man?

People are even reporting displeasure with NEC and Eizo monitors these days, as well as their support... it's something plaguing the industry as a whole.
i thought nec and eizo make professional grade monitors? if even they have issues, what can we expect from mainstream/consumer grade brands..

Yes, but many of them still use PWM, something that previously wasn't caught as a potential issue for some people. It's really only been in the past 4 years or so.

Professional monitors with defects will require support, too. This is where EIZO and NEC seem to be falling short compared to the past. I'm sure they are still far beyond other brands, but there's been a decline that cannot be ignored.

I still need to try the HHKB so there is still room for conversion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 05 February 2016, 12:09:31
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.

If you think a perfect keyboard exists in the first place, you will have lots of issues, mainly with the wallet.

HHKB is not that expensive. Your wallet will be fine, hhkb is the perfect keyboard.

Well, except that it needs function keys.  And dedicated media keys.  And split (6 on the left side).  And tented.  All in a single case.  And the backspace on the number row.  And the slash next to the brackets.  And the Fn key on the left side.  And Win/Meta/Super keys.

But other than that...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 05 February 2016, 12:10:44
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.

If you think a perfect keyboard exists in the first place, you will have lots of issues, mainly with the wallet.

HHKB is not that expensive. Your wallet will be fine, hhkb is the perfect keyboard.

Well, except that it needs function keys.  And dedicated media keys.  And split (6 on the left side).  And tented.  All in a single case.  And the backspace on the number row.  And the slash next to the brackets.  And the Fn key on the left side.  And Win/Meta/Super keys.

But other than that...
Heathen
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 05 February 2016, 12:13:50
You don't need to have the perfect keyboard. Don't worry, be happy.

If you think a perfect keyboard exists in the first place, you will have lots of issues, mainly with the wallet.

HHKB is not that expensive. Your wallet will be fine, hhkb is the perfect keyboard.

Well, except that it needs function keys.  And dedicated media keys.  And split (6 on the left side).  And tented.  All in a single case.  And the backspace on the number row.  And the slash next to the brackets.  And the Fn key on the left side.  And Win/Meta/Super keys.

But other than that...
Heathen

It's a funny thing.  The HHKB uses the UNIX layout.  Yet, as a UNIX admin in the command line daily, I find it a mediocre layout.  The \| key is placed too far out of reach for the amount I use it.  The Ctrl key location is nice but it's otherwise an unimpressive layout to me, having used Sun keyboards with that layout for years.  Even then, Sun eventually switched to a standard ANSI layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 17:44:33
PC Monitors suck, PC Laptops suck overall. Every single alternative product has compromises in the wrong places IMHO
yep, monitors released in the past 3-4 years are woefully imbalanced qualitywise. have you tried a high refresh rate screen?

No.. I don't even dare to buy a monitor being afraid of instant buyer remorse :p
What about those monitors?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Fri, 05 February 2016, 17:47:19
144hz(/165hz) + Gsync is the closest gaming experience I've felt to the CRTs of old.

The problem is getting a panel that isn't junk as has been discussed, but the above comment is why I kept trying.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 05 February 2016, 17:55:51
RGB/CMY mods are horrible and ruin a keyboard's aesthetics.

:|

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7624/16126129534_54a6ab3aa9_k.jpg)
CMYW Dolch (https://flic.kr/p/qz1Cu7) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 18:15:55
144hz(/165hz) + Gsync is the closest gaming experience I've felt to the CRTs of old.

The problem is getting a panel that isn't junk as has been discussed, but the above comment is why I kept trying.

Nice. Yeah I actually miss CRTs (especially Iiyama Diamondtron). The right CRTs were more crisp, vivid, and better black values if you ask me. More easy on the eyes if you had like 80-120hz, like Iiyama's. No backlight bleed, no uniformity issues. Just goodness.

I honestly think monitor hardware is going backwards nowadays. Such a shame.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 05 February 2016, 18:17:43
RGB/CMY mods are horrible and ruin a keyboard's aesthetics.

:|

Show Image
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7624/16126129534_54a6ab3aa9_k.jpg)

CMYW Dolch (https://flic.kr/p/qz1Cu7) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr
Yum.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 18:22:21
RGB/CMY mods are horrible and ruin a keyboard's aesthetics.

:|

Show Image
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7624/16126129534_54a6ab3aa9_k.jpg)

CMYW Dolch (https://flic.kr/p/qz1Cu7) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

Can you type rainbows with that? Please say yes..  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Corsa1r on Sat, 06 February 2016, 00:53:33
I've had a BenQ XL2430T for the last year, and after some playing with the settings, it's one of the best looking panels I've ever owned.  I don't even have G-sync.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 06 February 2016, 00:58:25
RGB/CMY mods are horrible and ruin a keyboard's aesthetics.

:|

Show Image
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7624/16126129534_54a6ab3aa9_k.jpg)

CMYW Dolch (https://flic.kr/p/qz1Cu7) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

I recognize that cap puller :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shaussman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 01:02:23
I've had a BenQ XL2430T for the last year, and after some playing with the settings, it's one of the best looking panels I've ever owned.  I don't even have G-sync.

Damn, I had the exact opposite experience. I had an XL2430T and for the life of me could not get it looking good, especially compared to my Asus VS239H-P. My brother had it and tried the same issue; the colors and overall picture was just super lacking.

As a more apples-to-apples comparison, my brother's Acer GN246HL (another TN panel 144Hz monitor) also looked much better, even setting the XL2430T side-by-side with it and trying to get them to match. Overall, it was incredibly disappointing, especially given the price of the BenQ. Had I paid anything approaching full price for it I would have been disappointed
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 06 February 2016, 01:18:09
RGB/CMY mods are horrible and ruin a keyboard's aesthetics.

:|

Show Image
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7624/16126129534_54a6ab3aa9_k.jpg)

CMYW Dolch (https://flic.kr/p/qz1Cu7) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

I recognize that cap puller :D

Definitely my go-to cap puller.  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andysun on Sat, 06 February 2016, 04:40:14
RGB/CMY mods are horrible and ruin a keyboard's aesthetics.

:|

Show Image
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7624/16126129534_54a6ab3aa9_k.jpg)

CMYW Dolch (https://flic.kr/p/qz1Cu7) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

Nooo, poor Dolch! :eek:

That being said, I do enjoy the occasional splash of cyan on darker colourways. I think it's the whole CMY combination that ruins it for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 06 February 2016, 06:05:31
I've had a BenQ XL2430T for the last year, and after some playing with the settings, it's one of the best looking panels I've ever owned.  I don't even have G-sync.

Looks cool.. but not suited for my needs. I need to do color accurate work now and then (print design), so TN wouldn't really work for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Sat, 06 February 2016, 07:26:15
i've heard complaints about IPS's lackluster (if not downright horrendous) black levels. does that impact your color-dependent work?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 06 February 2016, 07:31:49
i've heard complaints about IPS's lackluster (if not downright horrendous) black levels. does that impact your color-dependent work?

Yes it does. I would prefer a VA-panel (which has better gray levels), but VA has other issues, such as greyshift and banding. With IPS, black level issues are not tooo bad. And usually they only affect the brightness of black/white colors on paper. But luckily the rest of the colors are pretty accurate. I've grown accustomed to the black level issue with IPS, so by default I have my tints a bit darker on screen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Sat, 06 February 2016, 07:36:52
oh man.. compromises everywhere
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 06 February 2016, 07:39:39
oh man.. compromises everywhere

Yeah. Like I said.. I wish we had CRT-technology but then as compact as LCDs. Still after ~15 years of mainstream LCDs they are still nowhere near as good as CRTs were.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Sat, 06 February 2016, 09:46:08
I've had a BenQ XL2430T for the last year, and after some playing with the settings, it's one of the best looking panels I've ever owned.  I don't even have G-sync.

I've seen better but I bought it solely for csgo and it's performed well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 01:26:24
When did this become the unpopular monitor thread? :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 07 February 2016, 01:47:31
Here is an unpopular keyboard.
(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/23-166-156-TS?$S640$)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Sun, 07 February 2016, 01:50:22
Here is an unpopular keyboard.
Show Image
(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/23-166-156-TS?$S640$)


Not an opinion but that is a disgusting keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 07 February 2016, 01:52:49
Here is an unpopular keyboard.
Show Image
(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/23-166-156-TS?$S640$)


Not an opinion but that is a disgusting keyboard.
I will try to stay on track next time, thank you for that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Sun, 07 February 2016, 02:10:56
With how off topic its gotten with other things i dont think anyone would care :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 07 February 2016, 02:11:05
Here is an unpopular keyboard.
Show Image
(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/23-166-156-TS?$S640$)

How the hell did you find this ugly keyboard?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andysun on Sun, 07 February 2016, 04:43:45
Here is an unpopular keyboard.
Show Image
(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/23-166-156-TS?$S640$)

How the hell did you find this ugly keyboard?

If I had to guess, I'd say it is one of those keyboards with the big ass legends for old people who can't see very well :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 07 February 2016, 04:44:46
Here is an unpopular keyboard.
Show Image
(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/23-166-156-TS?$S640$)


WHAT IS THAT
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 07 February 2016, 04:45:29
When did this become the unpopular monitor thread? :p

Since you need a monitor to see what you're typing. Or do you still use matrix printers for the output? ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hullo8d on Sun, 07 February 2016, 04:51:01
Here is an unpopular keyboard.
Show Image
(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/23-166-156-TS?$S640$)


i picked one of these up at a goodwill for 3 dollars. it's ugly as ****, but it is weirdly mechanical.

edit: on closer inspection the one i got is different, but looks really similar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 07 February 2016, 13:20:18
Here is an unpopular keyboard.
Show Image
(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/23-166-156-TS?$S640$)

How the hell did you find this ugly keyboard?

If I had to guess, I'd say it is one of those keyboards with the big ass legends for old people who can't see very well :P
Hehe, my keyboard looks the same, it just doesn't have the yellow key caps and giant legends. The Adesso keyboard I have now uses a slider and giant rubber dome combination. No springs, and the key caps are the sliders, while the board mimics a switch housing. Very strange indeed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 07 February 2016, 15:49:51
Here is an unpopular keyboard.
Show Image
(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/23-166-156-TS?$S640$)

How the hell did you find this ugly keyboard?

If I had to guess, I'd say it is one of those keyboards with the big ass legends for old people who can't see very well :P
Hehe, my keyboard looks the same, it just doesn't have the yellow key caps and giant legends. The keyboard I have uses a slider and giant rubber dome combination. No springs, and the key caps are the sliders, while the board mimics a switch housing. Very strange indeed.

Do you use it?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Sun, 07 February 2016, 16:18:42
I know there are a lot of older keyboards that have big bright lettering and key's that are designed for either young children or older people with eye problems that use white alps.

But i'm pretty sure this specific one is one of the as seen on tv keyboards that they were selling for quite a few years for like 15- 20 USD and the build quality was horrible with horrible rubber domes, but there are some decent boards out there that look similar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hkf on Sun, 07 February 2016, 16:25:23
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 07 February 2016, 16:25:47
I know there are a lot of older keyboards that have big bright lettering and key's that are designed for either young children or older people with eye problems that use white alps.

But i'm pretty sure this specific one is one of the as seen on tv keyboards that they were selling for quite a few years for like 15- 20 USD and the build quality was horrible with horrible rubber domes, but there are some decent boards out there that look similar.
I didn't know they were an as seen on tv product, but now that I think of it, that makes total sense. I couldn't understand why wholesalers where selling lots of ten at a time (the yellow key cap boards). The rubber domes in mine will shift if you shake the board or drop it, very annoying, but I needed something to replace a broken board asap. Upgrading is going to be a experience
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 07 February 2016, 16:28:01
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Sun, 07 February 2016, 16:29:24
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hkf on Sun, 07 February 2016, 16:30:23
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I actually just don't like the grainy feel!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Connly33 on Sun, 07 February 2016, 16:31:25
I know there are a lot of older keyboards that have big bright lettering and key's that are designed for either young children or older people with eye problems that use white alps.

But i'm pretty sure this specific one is one of the as seen on tv keyboards that they were selling for quite a few years for like 15- 20 USD and the build quality was horrible with horrible rubber domes, but there are some decent boards out there that look similar.
I didn't know they were an as seen on tv product, but now that I think of it, that makes total sense. I couldn't understand why wholesalers where selling lots of ten at a time (the yellow key cap boards). The rubber domes in mine will shift if you shake the board or drop it, very annoying, but I needed something to replace a broken board asap. Upgrading is going to be a experience


Here is the one im thinking of, im pretty sure there are a few revisions, i found a few at a dollar store last year but didn't even consider getting one.... maybe i should have for $1

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 07 February 2016, 16:41:38
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 07 February 2016, 16:45:52
I know there are a lot of older keyboards that have big bright lettering and key's that are designed for either young children or older people with eye problems that use white alps.

But i'm pretty sure this specific one is one of the as seen on tv keyboards that they were selling for quite a few years for like 15- 20 USD and the build quality was horrible with horrible rubber domes, but there are some decent boards out there that look similar.
I didn't know they were an as seen on tv product, but now that I think of it, that makes total sense. I couldn't understand why wholesalers where selling lots of ten at a time (the yellow key cap boards). The rubber domes in mine will shift if you shake the board or drop it, very annoying, but I needed something to replace a broken board asap. Upgrading is going to be a experience


Here is the one im thinking of, im pretty sure there are a few revisions, i found a few at a dollar store last year but didn't even consider getting one.... maybe i should have for $1

Haha, ok so the kids get the keyboard, a rubber dome is shifted around so a key wont register and the parents RMA the board. Nice  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 07 February 2016, 17:32:18
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.

But..but... the shine!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 18:17:51
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.

But..but... the shine!

The shine on OG ABS double shots are like aging for a good wine, it just makes them far better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 07 February 2016, 18:29:57
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.

But..but... the shine!

The shine on OG ABS double shots are like aging for a good wine, it just makes them far better.
Does it ever feel clean though? The texture abs caps develop over time is what usually bothers me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shaussman on Sun, 07 February 2016, 18:37:45
I honestly like the texture on ABS caps, even after a good bit of use
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Geroximo on Sun, 07 February 2016, 18:43:06
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

Yes, mostly because people like the profile, not the ABS. There just are no PBT SA caps and GMK does not produce PBT sets. In my oppinion, the OG Cherry thick PBT caps are superior to the ABS (OG Cherry or GMK) caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 19:15:24
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.

But..but... the shine!

The shine on OG ABS double shots are like aging for a good wine, it just makes them far better.
Does it ever feel clean though? The texture abs caps develop over time is what usually bothers me

The OG Cherry sets I own have smooth surface that do not keep too much dirty, while PBT ones tend to keep along with the oils of your hand, so I think ABS is far better in that regard; at least, in my experience.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 07 February 2016, 19:26:07
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.

But..but... the shine!

The shine on OG ABS double shots are like aging for a good wine, it just makes them far better.
Does it ever feel clean though? The texture abs caps develop over time is what usually bothers me

The OG Cherry sets I own have smooth surface that do not keep too much dirty, while PBT ones tend to keep along with the oils of your hand, so I think ABS is far better in that regard; at least, in my experience.

Totally agree. My personal experience is much the same.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 07 February 2016, 22:01:17
Thanks god that I don't have a sweaty hands  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 07 February 2016, 22:29:53
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.

But..but... the shine!

The shine on OG ABS double shots are like aging for a good wine, it just makes them far better.

This is one thing I'll never understand. Shine on ABS makes it feel like absolute dog****.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 08 February 2016, 00:20:20
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.

But..but... the shine!

The shine on OG ABS double shots are like aging for a good wine, it just makes them far better.

This is one thing I'll never understand. Shine on ABS makes it feel like absolute dog****.

I have this old desko set with 100% shine and no texture - its ****ing awful to the touch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: falkentyne on Mon, 08 February 2016, 00:39:31
I think the Ducky Year of the Goat with MX Browns, 262,144 BRIGHT colors (64 levels of R, G, B per channel maximum, 8 levels by tapping once=512 colors), and SPARKLING BRIGHT BEAUTIFUL lovely colors on those doubleshot white keycaps with the reflections is the BEST KEYBOARD in the world!

Nothing lights the world up like COLORS do.

Top that!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 08 February 2016, 04:42:22
I think the Ducky Year of the Goat with MX Browns, 262,144 BRIGHT colors (64 levels of R, G, B per channel maximum, 8 levels by tapping once=512 colors), and SPARKLING BRIGHT BEAUTIFUL lovely colors on those doubleshot white keycaps with the reflections is the BEST KEYBOARD in the world!

Nothing lights the world up like COLORS do.

Top that!!

You must be lying. You didn't mention that the keyset should be rainbow caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 08 February 2016, 04:44:48
I honestly like the texture on ABS caps, even after a good bit of use

But that is the funny thing.. after a good bit of use there IS NO texture LEFT!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 08 February 2016, 08:25:08
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.

But..but... the shine!

The shine on OG ABS double shots are like aging for a good wine, it just makes them far better.

This is one thing I'll never understand. Shine on ABS makes it feel like absolute dog****.

I have this old desko set with 100% shine and no texture - its ****ing awful to the touch

I'd be very happy to "adopt" it and to pay for its shipment to its new "home" if you really cannot use it.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Mon, 08 February 2016, 11:40:09
Pad printing > laser etching.

If it's done halfway decently, it doesn't wear off or fade even after more than a decade of use. Laser etching, on the other hand, usually starts to fade within a week.

Also: Getting really sick of minimalism as an aesthetic. It doesn't look good, just bleak, depressing, and inhuman. Enough with it already!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Mon, 08 February 2016, 16:31:05
Pad printing > laser etching.

If it's done halfway decently, it doesn't wear off or fade even after more than a decade of use. Laser etching, on the other hand, usually starts to fade within a week.

Also: Getting really sick of minimalism as an aesthetic. It doesn't look good, just bleak, depressing, and inhuman. Enough with it already!

Pad printing can definitely be very durable.

Minimalism isn't always done very well... for example, the HHKB Pro 2 has empty bottom corners. Many claim it's "minimalist" because of this but waste (space) goes against the fundamental principles of minimalism.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Darkshado on Mon, 08 February 2016, 20:58:18
Gotta agree about the durable pad printing, enough that I wonder what some of you people do with your boards :P

The pad printed, Chicony-made, scissor board on my Clevo show no visible wear on the pads after three and a half years of intensive use. The ABS, on the other hand, shines quite a bit on frequently used keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bromono on Mon, 08 February 2016, 21:00:59
Pad printing > laser etching.

If it's done halfway decently, it doesn't wear off or fade even after more than a decade of use. Laser etching, on the other hand, usually starts to fade within a week.

Also: Getting really sick of minimalism as an aesthetic. It doesn't look good, just bleak, depressing, and inhuman. Enough with it already!

It is just that pad printing is usually on thin abs *yuck*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 11 February 2016, 14:39:35
I like DSA a lot more than SA.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: theoriginal123123 on Thu, 11 February 2016, 14:46:41
I like DSA a lot more than SA.  :thumb:

I'd actually have to agree with you on that one...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Touch_It on Thu, 11 February 2016, 14:47:40
I know there are a lot of older keyboards that have big bright lettering and key's that are designed for either young children or older people with eye problems that use white alps.

But i'm pretty sure this specific one is one of the as seen on tv keyboards that they were selling for quite a few years for like 15- 20 USD and the build quality was horrible with horrible rubber domes, but there are some decent boards out there that look similar.
I didn't know they were an as seen on tv product, but now that I think of it, that makes total sense. I couldn't understand why wholesalers where selling lots of ten at a time (the yellow key cap boards). The rubber domes in mine will shift if you shake the board or drop it, very annoying, but I needed something to replace a broken board asap. Upgrading is going to be a experience


Here is the one im thinking of, im pretty sure there are a few revisions, i found a few at a dollar store last year but didn't even consider getting one.... maybe i should have for $1


free mouse!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Thu, 11 February 2016, 14:55:51
I like DSA a lot more than SA.  :thumb:

See you on reddit :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 15:16:58
Vintage Black switches are better than Purple Tactile Zealios? That's about all I got.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 11 February 2016, 15:41:07
I know there are a lot of older keyboards that have big bright lettering and key's that are designed for either young children or older people with eye problems that use white alps.

But i'm pretty sure this specific one is one of the as seen on tv keyboards that they were selling for quite a few years for like 15- 20 USD and the build quality was horrible with horrible rubber domes, but there are some decent boards out there that look similar.
I didn't know they were an as seen on tv product, but now that I think of it, that makes total sense. I couldn't understand why wholesalers where selling lots of ten at a time (the yellow key cap boards). The rubber domes in mine will shift if you shake the board or drop it, very annoying, but I needed something to replace a broken board asap. Upgrading is going to be a experience


Here is the one im thinking of, im pretty sure there are a few revisions, i found a few at a dollar store last year but didn't even consider getting one.... maybe i should have for $1


free mouse!
Ha!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 11 February 2016, 17:37:09
Vintage Black switches are better than Purple Tactile Zealios? That's about all I got.
Wait wait, vintage black are linear and zeal purple are tactile
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: falkentyne on Thu, 11 February 2016, 17:50:34
I think what he means is that that's how some of the logic in this thread has gone on a random illogical tangent...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 11 February 2016, 17:53:07
I think what he means is that that's how some of the logic in this thread has gone on a random illogical tangent...
Oh hahaha
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 19:09:41
;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 12 February 2016, 06:35:30
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.

But..but... the shine!

The shine on OG ABS double shots are like aging for a good wine, it just makes them far better.

This is one thing I'll never understand. Shine on ABS makes it feel like absolute dog****.

Easy. Any too old wine tastes like piss too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 12 February 2016, 16:58:37
ABS >= PBT

*ducks*

A lot of us agree with this. I mean GMK and SP SA caps are some of the most popular ones out there.  :thumb:

I was going to say this, I prefer it because of how flexible it is keyset wise.

I generally think they feel and look better than PBT.

But..but... the shine!

The shine on OG ABS double shots are like aging for a good wine, it just makes them far better.

This is one thing I'll never understand. Shine on ABS makes it feel like absolute dog****.

Easy. Any too old wine tastes like piss too.

Amen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zinkpro45 on Fri, 12 February 2016, 23:03:10
Minimalism isn't always done very well... for example, the HHKB Pro 2 has empty bottom corners. Many claim it's "minimalist" because of this but waste (space) goes against the fundamental principles of minimalism.

Completely agree with you. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it had keys in the corners. Just seems so unnecessary to have nothing there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 13 February 2016, 01:00:30
Minimalism isn't always done very well... for example, the HHKB Pro 2 has empty bottom corners. Many claim it's "minimalist" because of this but waste (space) goes against the fundamental principles of minimalism.

Completely agree with you. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it had keys in the corners. Just seems so unnecessary to have nothing there.
But did you usually use that side of the keys? Cause its kind of pointless using more keys in the bottom row when its all perfect on hhkb.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sat, 13 February 2016, 01:34:19
iso is meme layout

why does mx blue exist
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 13 February 2016, 06:30:21
Minimalism isn't always done very well... for example, the HHKB Pro 2 has empty bottom corners. Many claim it's "minimalist" because of this but waste (space) goes against the fundamental principles of minimalism.

Completely agree with you. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it had keys in the corners. Just seems so unnecessary to have nothing there.

But.. but.. it gives that KB style and character!

Where to draw the line though? A TKL has no key left to up and right to up. And no keys between the arrow cluster and the insert/down cluster.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Sat, 13 February 2016, 07:11:05
iso is meme layout

why does mx blue exist
Yes to the first.

MX Blues were created to annoy friends, co-workers, and loved ones. They were designed to destroy relationships, and maybe even lives.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 13 February 2016, 07:50:56
MX Blues were created to annoy friends, co-workers, and loved ones. They were designed to destroy relationships, and maybe even lives.

And all the while cheat the owner of the glorious feel of buckling spring. Truly, blues are switches with no redeem feature.

:)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Sat, 13 February 2016, 09:51:28
iso is meme layout

why does mx blue exist
Yes to the first.

MX Blues were created to annoy friends, co-workers, and loved ones. They were designed to destroy relationships, and maybe even lives.

Then what were Greens created for, to destroy the few remaining relationships that could stand listening to Blues?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Sat, 13 February 2016, 09:52:28
iso is meme layout

why does mx blue exist
Yes to the first.

MX Blues were created to annoy friends, co-workers, and loved ones. They were designed to destroy relationships, and maybe even lives.

Then what were Greens created for, to destroy the few remaining relationships that could stand listening to Blues?

Pretty much. And for strong people. I've tried greens. I cried, then I sold the board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 13 February 2016, 12:55:06
Minimalism isn't always done very well... for example, the HHKB Pro 2 has empty bottom corners. Many claim it's "minimalist" because of this but waste (space) goes against the fundamental principles of minimalism.

Completely agree with you. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it had keys in the corners. Just seems so unnecessary to have nothing there.
But did you usually use that side of the keys? Cause its kind of pointless using more keys in the bottom row when its all perfect on hhkb.

It isn't perfect, though. There's all sorts of things they could have used those spaces for. Here's some ideas off the top of my head (while I type on the HHKB):

Function key on the left side so I can use the left-side F-keys with one hand. Dedicated caps lock so you can choose whether you want Control/Caps switched (like the 87U and KUL ES-87).

A second function layer on the right -> the purpose of this would be to put the home/end/PgUp/PgDn keys onto the arrow keys as another layer. The current home/end/PgUp/PgDn keys aren't in a great spot. Actually It'd be nice to use the right-side diamond key for this since your thumb naturally falls there while your pinky is on the current function key, while your index and middle fingers lay naturally on the four current arrow keys.

While we're at it, put PrintScreen under the ']' key (currently unused and PrintScreen is pretty far) and allow Delete to be the primary while tilde a secondary.

Anyways, my point is that the layout is far from perfect and having these spaces simply go unused kind of makes it less appealing to some people. It wouldn't hurt to give a little more option in how the board is set up so that it works for more people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Sat, 13 February 2016, 13:11:45
iso is meme layout

why does mx blue exist
Yes to the first.

MX Blues were created to annoy friends, co-workers, and loved ones. They were designed to destroy relationships, and maybe even lives.

Then what were Greens created for, to destroy the few remaining relationships that could stand listening to Blues?

Pretty much. And for strong people. I've tried greens. I cried, then I sold the board.

TIL I'm swole as ****
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: regack on Sat, 13 February 2016, 13:30:19
Anyways, my point is that the layout is far from perfect and having these spaces simply go unused kind of makes it less appealing to some people. It wouldn't hurt to give a little more option in how the board is set up so that it works for more people.

Honestly the layout is a big turn off.  The unused spaces seem inefficient.  Yes, I typed on a Model M for years, but that was before I discovered there was this this whole world of keyboard enthusiasts.  My eyes were opened to completely custom creations, and now that I've gone down that road, I can't really turn back.  If it was going to bother trying out a HHKB, it would be simply to try Topre.  In the end, I'd just be annoyed that I would have to replace the controller with Hasu's programmable one, and then even after I programmed it to my liking, it would bother me to have those empty blank areas that I could have put to use. 

I am safely in Unpopular Keyboard Opinions, right?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Sat, 13 February 2016, 13:34:22
Anyways, my point is that the layout is far from perfect and having these spaces simply go unused kind of makes it less appealing to some people. It wouldn't hurt to give a little more option in how the board is set up so that it works for more people.

Honestly the layout is a big turn off.  The unused spaces seem inefficient.  Yes, I typed on a Model M for years, but that was before I discovered there was this this whole world of keyboard enthusiasts.  My eyes were opened to completely custom creations, and now that I've gone down that road, I can't really turn back.  If it was going to bother trying out a HHKB, it would be simply to try Topre.  In the end, I'd just be annoyed that I would have to replace the controller with Hasu's programmable one, and then even after I programmed it to my liking, it would bother me to have those empty blank areas that I could have put to use. 

I am safely in Unpopular Keyboard Opinions, right?

Yes, until the Topre Squad sees this.  Then u ded
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 13 February 2016, 13:43:58
Anyways, my point is that the layout is far from perfect and having these spaces simply go unused kind of makes it less appealing to some people. It wouldn't hurt to give a little more option in how the board is set up so that it works for more people.

Honestly the layout is a big turn off.  The unused spaces seem inefficient.  Yes, I typed on a Model M for years, but that was before I discovered there was this this whole world of keyboard enthusiasts.  My eyes were opened to completely custom creations, and now that I've gone down that road, I can't really turn back.  If it was going to bother trying out a HHKB, it would be simply to try Topre.  In the end, I'd just be annoyed that I would have to replace the controller with Hasu's programmable one, and then even after I programmed it to my liking, it would bother me to have those empty blank areas that I could have put to use. 

I am safely in Unpopular Keyboard Opinions, right?

Yes, until the Topre Squad sees this.  Then u ded
Where's the Realforce love?! For the love of all that is holy?!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 13 February 2016, 14:02:57
Anyways, my point is that the layout is far from perfect and having these spaces simply go unused kind of makes it less appealing to some people. It wouldn't hurt to give a little more option in how the board is set up so that it works for more people.

Honestly the layout is a big turn off.  The unused spaces seem inefficient.  Yes, I typed on a Model M for years, but that was before I discovered there was this this whole world of keyboard enthusiasts.  My eyes were opened to completely custom creations, and now that I've gone down that road, I can't really turn back.  If it was going to bother trying out a HHKB, it would be simply to try Topre.  In the end, I'd just be annoyed that I would have to replace the controller with Hasu's programmable one, and then even after I programmed it to my liking, it would bother me to have those empty blank areas that I could have put to use. 

I am safely in Unpopular Keyboard Opinions, right?
Sure you are.

You know what else seems inefficient? Model M. Ctrl keys buried in hard-to-reach corners, Backspace in another corner, and over 40 distant keys on top of it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 13 February 2016, 15:47:53
Anyways, my point is that the layout is far from perfect and having these spaces simply go unused kind of makes it less appealing to some people. It wouldn't hurt to give a little more option in how the board is set up so that it works for more people.

Honestly the layout is a big turn off.  The unused spaces seem inefficient.  Yes, I typed on a Model M for years, but that was before I discovered there was this this whole world of keyboard enthusiasts.  My eyes were opened to completely custom creations, and now that I've gone down that road, I can't really turn back.  If it was going to bother trying out a HHKB, it would be simply to try Topre.  In the end, I'd just be annoyed that I would have to replace the controller with Hasu's programmable one, and then even after I programmed it to my liking, it would bother me to have those empty blank areas that I could have put to use. 

I am safely in Unpopular Keyboard Opinions, right?
Sure you are.

You know what else seems inefficient? Model M. Ctrl keys buried in hard-to-reach corners, Backspace in another corner, and over 40 distant keys on top of it.

Sure, but you can press any key with one hand.

I still prefer the Ctrl key in the lower left because I'm often using Ctrl+ZXCVAS. My pinky is already much shorter than my other fingers... So it's awkward to have it on a row further away while curling my other fingers.

Ideally it would be where the Shift key is but that's taken.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Sat, 13 February 2016, 15:57:29
I do agree with Altis - in the present day, the unused space on the HHKB could garner 2 additional keys on either side of the spacebar. I too do not enjoy the idea of a Hasu controller to make the HHKB Pro 2 more functional - to me, that speaks to it's shortcomings.

Of course, it sells well enough as is, and the HHKB Pro JP is a very suitable replacement for many common complaints, so PFU has no real reason to change the HHKB Pro 2.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 13 February 2016, 16:05:40
You know what else seems inefficient? Model M. Ctrl keys buried in hard-to-reach corners, Backspace in another corner, and over 40 distant keys on top of it.

Sure, but you can press any key with one hand.

I still prefer the Ctrl key in the lower left because I'm often using Ctrl+ZXCVAS. My pinky is already much shorter than my other fingers... So it's awkward to have it on a row further away while curling my other fingers.

Ideally it would be where the Shift key is but that's taken.
Assuming, that you have the pinkie in the corner in the first place, or move it all the way down there. It depends how you type in the first place (or if you even type and don't only use those chords outside typing).

Those shortcuts were originally designed for Mac OS and involved the Command key. Arguably, that was better than Ctrl in the corner. Both Model M and HHKB have too large spacebars. >_<

I'm not too happy with the HHKB layout either. C-Z or C-X C-S are awkward. Ctrl in the corner isn't a solution though. It'd be much better, if there was another Ctrl key in place of Enter (with Enter shifted one row higher)… but in the end, the large spacebar strikes again. >_<
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 13 February 2016, 16:11:36
The HHKB layout was taken directly from Old Sun UNIX keyboards, the empty spaces were only a way to shorten the space bar. I do not like it in general, because I think the standard ANSI is just the right one for me, but the empty spaces make the one unit keys very usable; besides, in the world of a Sun Unix Sixty Percent Keyboard those keys were not needed at all.

(http://i.imgur.com/Hke5oUu.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 13 February 2016, 16:30:53
You know what else seems inefficient? Model M. Ctrl keys buried in hard-to-reach corners, Backspace in another corner, and over 40 distant keys on top of it.

Sure, but you can press any key with one hand.

I still prefer the Ctrl key in the lower left because I'm often using Ctrl+ZXCVAS. My pinky is already much shorter than my other fingers... So it's awkward to have it on a row further away while curling my other fingers.

Ideally it would be where the Shift key is but that's taken.
Assuming, that you have the pinkie in the corner in the first place, or move it all the way down there. It depends how you type in the first place (or if you even type and don't only use those chords outside typing).

Those shortcuts were originally designed for Mac OS and involved the Command key. Arguably, that was better than Ctrl in the corner. Both Model M and HHKB have too large spacebars. >_<

I'm not too happy with the HHKB layout either. C-Z or C-X C-S are awkward. Ctrl in the corner isn't a solution though. It'd be much better, if there was another Ctrl key in place of Enter (with Enter shifted one row higher)… but in the end, the large spacebar strikes again. >_<

It might not be the ideal solution but having a caps lock in the bottom corner that could be swapped for Control would certainly help out some people who prefer it that way and you lose nothing by doing it (except aesthetics).

It would be interesting to have it on the right side of the keyboard, although I'm not sure what it would be like since I've always done Control+ sequences with a single hand.

What do you think of embedding the Home/End/PgUp/PgDn navigation under the same keys as the arrows? The current right diamond key would enable that layer. My own hand falls perfectly with my thumb on right diamond, pinky on Function, and index/middle fingers on the current arrow cluster. It would give all your navigation very quickly and with extremely little hand movement.

The HHKB layout was taken directly from Old Sun UNIX keyboards, the empty spaces were only a way to shorten the space bar. I do not like it in general, because I think the standard ANSI is just the right one for me, but the empty spaces make the one unit keys very usable; besides, in the world of a Sun Unix Sixty Percent Keyboard those keys were not needed at all.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Hke5oUu.jpg)


That is interesting indeed. It looks very similar. I certainly wouldn't want such a massive spacebar!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 13 February 2016, 16:50:44
It might not be the ideal solution but having a caps lock in the bottom corner that could be swapped for Control would certainly help out some people who prefer it that way and you lose nothing by doing it (except aesthetics).
Caps Lock Must Die

What do you think of embedding the Home/End/PgUp/PgDn navigation under the same keys as the arrows? The current right diamond key would enable that layer. My own hand falls perfectly with my thumb on right diamond, pinky on Function, and index/middle fingers on the current arrow cluster. It would give all your navigation very quickly and with extremely little hand movement.
I find the Fn layer on HHKB ridiculous by itself, arrows included. Actually, especially the arrows, because it's the only part I ever use, other than a rare F11/F12. But if your fingers fit there (mine don't), I guess it's alright.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fanpeople on Sat, 13 February 2016, 17:32:32
Ill be back when you guys move onto the cherry bashing. Right now i need to go to my safe space. Lol jks i dont have a safe space,  HHKB ftw.

That is all
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Sun, 14 February 2016, 06:41:56
Topre is great, but you buy £50 worth of keyboard and £100 worth of post-purchase rationalisation.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sun, 14 February 2016, 14:51:56
 SA profile is horrible and meme
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 14 February 2016, 14:57:08
SA profile is horrible and meme

SA sucks, the overuse of the word meme sucks equally as much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sun, 14 February 2016, 15:03:06
SA profile is horrible and meme

SA sucks, the overuse of the word meme sucks equally as much.

But I just got into the meme trend  :'(
To be honest I don't even know what it means. In the context of my message I believe it means "a joke"?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 14 February 2016, 15:04:48
SA profile is horrible and meme

SA sucks, the overuse of the word meme sucks equally as much.

But I just got into the meme trend  :'(
To be honest I don't even know what it means. In the context of my message I believe it means "a joke"?

Google if your friend.

"Meme -
 - an element of a culture or system of behavior that may be considered to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means, especially imitation.
 - a humorous image, video, piece of text, etc. that is copied (often with slight variations) and spread rapidly by Internet users."
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Sun, 14 February 2016, 15:10:30
SA profile is horrible and meme

SA sucks, the overuse of the word meme sucks equally as much.

But I just got into the meme trend  :'(
To be honest I don't even know what it means. In the context of my message I believe it means "a joke"?

Google if your friend.

"Meme -
 - an element of a culture or system of behavior that may be considered to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means, especially imitation.
 - a humorous image, video, piece of text, etc. that is copied (often with slight variations) and spread rapidly by Internet users."

AKA pretty much anything that is online, according to most people I know.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 14 February 2016, 15:25:47
SA preference is not the only thing that has happen to grow at GH by imitation or group thinking and by group thinking only; that is a very common behavior here, examples? certain artisan key caps, sets made with bright colors mixed in strident combinations, certain profiles, certain boards, or even full sets that have been in the "preference" of this community, from time to time, have happen by group thinking only; the reasoning?, it is very simple: If many like it, I should do it as well. Put a sock on your meme son!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 15 February 2016, 00:11:03
meme = joke the same way that someone says something you don't agree with = trolling
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hellmark on Mon, 15 February 2016, 15:05:19
Most custom keys look kinda stupid on a keyboard. They can look cool on its own, but in use just looks weird.

I don't like 60%. I frequently use too many of the keys that they chop out. I use the arrow keys and function keys ALL THE TIME.

Linear switches feel weird.

Fancy color schemes are too garish for my tastes. I prefer basics. Beige, basic black, etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Mon, 15 February 2016, 15:16:13
meme = joke the same way that someone says something you don't agree with = trolling

Post of the day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:18:15
geekhack more like geekwhack

I don't remember what that is from though but my favorite quote :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:30:41
geekhack more like geekwhack

I don't remember what that is from though but my favorite quote :-*

geekwhack is from Ripster.

gg
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:36:16
geekhack more like geekwhack

I don't remember what that is from though but my favorite quote :-*

you're gonna be popular around here
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:37:41
geekhack more like geekwhack

I don't remember what that is from though but my favorite quote :-*

geekwhack is from Ripster.

gg

ripster what I cutie pie
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:38:28
geekhack more like geekwhack

I don't remember what that is from though but my favorite quote :-*

geekwhack is from Ripster.

gg

ripster what I cutie pie

I think this is one of the most unpopular opinions here.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:39:12
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:40:16
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

TOY STORY 2 WAS OKAY
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:42:43
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

TOY STORY 2 WAS OKAY

TOY STORY 3 BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:43:50
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

Speaking of that, I ****ing hate my poker at the minute, switches are too hard and ping like a ****er, low quality (at least mine is) build and the ****ing form factor is annoying as hell.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:43:56
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

TOY STORY 2 WAS OKAY

TOY STORY 3 BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE
When Andy drove away.. Man, that was too much.  :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:51:21
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

TOY STORY 2 WAS OKAY

I like Gina as a friend, but I'm not sure about taking things further.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:53:37
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

Speaking of that, I ****ing hate my poker at the minute, switches are too hard and ping like a ****er, low quality (at least mine is) build and the ****ing form factor is annoying as hell.

Could the ping be from the case? Try using it on a desk mat.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:55:46
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

Speaking of that, I ****ing hate my poker at the minute, switches are too hard and ping like a ****er, low quality (at least mine is) build and the ****ing form factor is annoying as hell.

Could the ping be from the case? Try using it on a desk mat.

Muffles it but I use it for college too so carry around a desk mat isn't so practical  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 15 February 2016, 17:59:21
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

Speaking of that, I ****ing hate my poker at the minute, switches are too hard and ping like a ****er, low quality (at least mine is) build and the ****ing form factor is annoying as hell.

Could the ping be from the case? Try using it on a desk mat.

Muffles it but I use it for college too so carry around a desk mat isn't so practical  :))

You could buy another desk mat, cut it up, and glue it to the bottom of your case. Portable desk mat.  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 15 February 2016, 20:02:20
Topre is great, but you buy £50 worth of keyboard and £100 worth of post-purchase rationalisation.

Consumer's remorse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Mon, 15 February 2016, 22:21:16
Topre is great, but you buy £50 worth of keyboard and £100 worth of post-purchase rationalisation.

Consumer's remorse.

Totally agree that they're overpriced, but seeing how many people ditch their collection afterwards and get 3, it's hardly remorse. This applies to all Topre.

We make them out to be so expensive but they aren't much more than a Cherry MX board with some decent key caps.

It seems that all the keyboards around here are expensive, as are the mods. It's the Korean customs that are really the ones up there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Moistgun on Mon, 15 February 2016, 22:34:57
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

TOY STORY 2 WAS OKAY

TOY STORY 3 BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE
When Andy drove away.. Man, that was too much.  :'(

Damnit, use spoiler tags.
Bastards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Mon, 15 February 2016, 22:59:26
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

TOY STORY 2 WAS OKAY

TOY STORY 3 BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE
When Andy drove away.. Man, that was too much.  :'(

Damnit, use spoiler tags.
Bastards.

Romeo and Juliet both die, Leonardo DiCaprio was in a dream the entire time, Vader is Luke's father, Cameron ruins his father's Ferrari, Nemo is reunited with his dad.

Oh wait I forgot the spoiler tags, whoops.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 15 February 2016, 23:02:08
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

TOY STORY 2 WAS OKAY

TOY STORY 3 BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE
When Andy drove away.. Man, that was too much.  :'(

Damnit, use spoiler tags.
Bastards.

Romeo and Juliet both die, Leonardo DiCaprio was in a dream the entire time, Vader is Luke's father, Cameron ruins his father's Ferrari, Nemo is reunited with his dad.

Oh wait I forgot the spoiler tags, whoops.

I think this is debatable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Tue, 16 February 2016, 05:07:00
MX Blues were created to annoy friends, co-workers, and loved ones. They were designed to destroy relationships, and maybe even lives.

Then what were Greens created for, to destroy the few remaining relationships that could stand listening to Blues?

LOL


Pretty much. And for strong people. I've tried greens. I cried, then I sold the board.

You'd better not go near buckling springs, then.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 16 February 2016, 08:36:43
Buckling springs are so much less fatiguing that stupid ramped force MX springs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hullo8d on Tue, 16 February 2016, 12:32:11
i like leaving pizza grease on my keyboard. it gives me that extra boost in speed needed in this competitive world of typing really fast.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chipotle on Tue, 16 February 2016, 16:47:52
My Realforce keyboard has biased me against my other boards to the point where I may prefer typing on the Apple wired aluminum keyboard to MX Clears.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 18 February 2016, 12:53:41
i like leaving pizza grease on my keyboard. it gives me that extra boost in speed needed in this competitive world of typing really fast.

are you seious
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 18 February 2016, 12:55:58
My Realforce keyboard has biased me against my other boards to the point where I may prefer typing on the Apple wired aluminum keyboard to MX Clears.
Chipotle name and cherry. If you were a woman id ask you to marry me.


Ah hell, wanna get hitched and enjoy topre together for life?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 18 February 2016, 12:56:08
i like leaving pizza grease on my keyboard. it gives me that extra boost in speed needed in this competitive world of typing really fast.

are you seious

(http://i.imgur.com/HRV9fDt.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 18 February 2016, 12:56:53
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

TOY STORY 2 WAS OKAY

TOY STORY 3 BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE
Toy Story 3 was bad and not needed. Fite me

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 18 February 2016, 12:58:56
These are supposed to be keyboard opinions...

TOY STORY 2 WAS OKAY

TOY STORY 3 BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE
Toy Story 3 was bad and not needed. Fite me

This is not only not a keyboard opinion, but it's also a wrong opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 18 February 2016, 13:05:59
The only good thing about it was mr tortilla head
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: khronokrator on Thu, 18 February 2016, 13:18:08
I generally agree with the Alps > Buckling Spring > Cherry ranking.

Um... I also think buckling spring boards that have experienced some use are simply better than mint condition ones. It's the reason I prefer my restored Model M over my Unicomp Ultra Classic. The switches just feel... better and smoother in some indefatigable way.

There's an older Unicomp Model M type hooked up to a terminal emulator at my work that feels amazing to type on. Almost like my F122 at times. It's seen quite a bit of use, and more than its share of abuse, and it feels amazing. Infinitely better than the Ultra Classic, and I'm pretty sure that's simply because it's seen a lot of use in its 15 year lifespan, and not any manufacturing defects or compromises on Unicomp's part.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 18 February 2016, 13:21:08
indefatigable

TIL a new word  ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: khronokrator on Thu, 18 February 2016, 13:23:04
It's what you get from reading British literature and talking with Brits on a fairly routine basis. 

Edit: I also used it incorrectly, mea culpa.  :-X

Oh, and...

I think this is debatable.

Very much so. Michael Caine supposedly made a statement to the effect of "Any scene with me in it unequivocally takes place in the real world."
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Thu, 18 February 2016, 23:20:01
carbon fiber on a keyboard looks bad
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 19 February 2016, 02:07:59
the reason hhkb is garbage isn't topre itself, it's the fn layout and the fact it's not programmable stock.
Actually any 300$+ keyboard that is not programmable is trash
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: theoriginal123123 on Fri, 19 February 2016, 03:06:09
the reason hhkb is garbage isn't topre itself, it's the fn layout and the fact it's not programmable stock.
Actually any 300$+ keyboard that is not programmable is trash

Agreed. Anything at that price point better be programmable!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 19 February 2016, 08:43:49
HHKB is programmable with dip switches.  You can't change every key, but it's not purely stock.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 19 February 2016, 09:08:48
HHKB is programmable with dip switches.  You can't change every key, but it's not purely stock.

Not to mention that if you've spent $300 on your HHKB it probably has a hasu controller.  ;)  Unless you live in the EU and didn't proxy it, I suppose.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 19 February 2016, 09:44:27
HHKB is programmable with dip switches.  You can't change every key, but it's not purely stock.

Not to mention that if you've spent $300 on your HHKB it probably has a hasu controller.  ;)  Unless you live in the EU and didn't proxy it, I suppose.

Exactly.  Also, the HHKB isn't any more expensive than most boards you build yourself or even most Cherry boards with how people treat them.  Most stock boards (that cost at least $100) have ****ty caps that people swap out, putting you at $160-220 to get something that's nice to type on.  Most custom builds (not even talking Kustoms) cost around $120 just for the PCB, plate, switches, and stabs and then you have to source a case and caps.  Again looking at north of $200 with no guarantee that it's programmable.

Yes, the HHKB is expensive, but when you look at the way must people treat MX and Alps boards, it's not really that much different in terms of price. 


carbon fiber on a keyboard looks bad

Carbon fiber accents can look good and there might even be a place with them on some boards, but, yeah, it usually looks bad because it's overused.

The main reason it usually looks like trash though is because people love to use and overuse that god awful 3M Di-Noc.  I don't think I've ever seen that stuff look good or used tastefully.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 19 February 2016, 11:01:56
Carbon fibre looks bad for at least two reasons. The first is that it's just overused generally. The second is because it's just not a sensible material to be using in the first place, so it desperately screams "look at me... please!" Kind of like LEDs, come to think of it :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sinusoid on Fri, 19 February 2016, 13:00:38
Carbon fibre [...] it's just not a sensible material to be using in the first place

Disagree, you get a lof of features from it, compared to steel, alu or plastic.
- lots of stiffness
- thin
- lightweight
- chemically resistant

Agreed it looks fugly, why don't people paint it over is beyond me.

Heard a reason that the paint increases the weight of the thing, which is wtf really.

In other news:

good scissors > mechanical switches

spring-modded Cherry G81 is awesome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 19 February 2016, 13:05:22
steel scissor switches should be a thing
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sinusoid on Fri, 19 February 2016, 13:24:56
it's already been done.
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 19 February 2016, 13:54:30
it's already been done.
(Attachment Link)
RIP johnny depp
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 19 February 2016, 22:13:00
Carbon fibre [...] it's just not a sensible material to be using in the first place

Disagree, you get a lof of features from it, compared to steel, alu or plastic.
- lots of stiffness
- thin
- lightweight
- chemically resistant

Agreed it looks fugly, why don't people paint it over is beyond me.

Heard a reason that the paint increases the weight of the thing, which is wtf really.

In other news:

good scissors > mechanical switches

spring-modded Cherry G81 is awesome.

I see weight as a good thing for a keyboard to have- the heft makes it more solid on the desk. I guess this is one of the reasons that people like heavy steel plates so much.

CF does help with vibration reduction, though I'd suspect that would be trivial compared to whatever immediate effect a steel plate has.

I haven't paid attention to CF in keyboards, but would assume that for a top plate you'd have to cut holes for the keys rather than mold it. Cutting through carbon doesn't leave the nicest edges and you get lots of wastage that cannot be recycled. It still has to be hand laid, so very expensive. Far as I know, CF is in no way able to be recycled. Plastic is perfect as it molded and you don't get wastage during production.

I do rather like the look of unidrectional CF, because it looks raw and unfinished. It's the cross woven stuff used as a cosmetic layer that looks a bit silly. May as well use plastic wrap that looks like cross woven CF.

Didn't think that weight of paint was a factor in CF considerations. Paint is very light. It's powdercoating that is heavy, and powercoating can only be applied to metals.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 19 February 2016, 22:24:37
Carbon fibre [...] it's just not a sensible material to be using in the first place

Disagree, you get a lof of features from it, compared to steel, alu or plastic.
- lots of stiffness
- thin
- lightweight
- chemically resistant

Agreed it looks fugly, why don't people paint it over is beyond me.

Heard a reason that the paint increases the weight of the thing, which is wtf really.

In other news:

good scissors > mechanical switches

spring-modded Cherry G81 is awesome.

I see weight as a good thing for a keyboard to have- the heft makes it more solid on the desk. I guess this is one of the reasons that people like heavy steel plates so much.

I don't know if you've noticed but most CF cases are 60% boards since those boards are the best for travel. The lighter the board the better if you need to toss it into your backpack and go to travel anywhere.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 19 February 2016, 22:56:01
Carbon fibre [...] it's just not a sensible material to be using in the first place

Disagree, you get a lof of features from it, compared to steel, alu or plastic.
- lots of stiffness
- thin
- lightweight
- chemically resistant

Agreed it looks fugly, why don't people paint it over is beyond me.

Heard a reason that the paint increases the weight of the thing, which is wtf really.

In other news:

good scissors > mechanical switches

spring-modded Cherry G81 is awesome.

I see weight as a good thing for a keyboard to have- the heft makes it more solid on the desk. I guess this is one of the reasons that people like heavy steel plates so much.

I don't know if you've noticed but most CF cases are 60% boards since those boards are the best for travel. The lighter the board the better if you need to toss it into your backpack and go to travel anywhere.

^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 19 February 2016, 23:02:30
That's why they made the hhkb. That thing is light as hell and portable. not only that the japs designed a special traveling case for the hhkb
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Moistgun on Fri, 19 February 2016, 23:05:22
Perfectly symmetrical boards freak me out ex. planck

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 19 February 2016, 23:06:23
That's why they made the hhkb. That thing is light as hell and portable. not only that the japs designed a special traveling case for the hhkb

but sometimes people don't want to use **** switches...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: axtran on Sat, 20 February 2016, 00:01:44

That's why they made the hhkb. That thing is light as hell and portable. not only that the japs designed a special traveling case for the hhkb

but sometimes people don't want to use **** switches...

Shots fired!

I like the switches though, it's the plasticky feel due to a lack of a metal plate that has the HHKB as "subpar" to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Corsa1r on Sat, 20 February 2016, 00:50:15
I've never used a topre board with a steel plate. but I really enjoy the Type-S I just got because of the organic and slightly bouncy feel to typing it has.  It's nice to switch to from my steel-plate cherry boards, which almost feel unyielding and hard to me now.  I'm a pretty light typist though, so..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sat, 20 February 2016, 00:51:03
That's why they made the hhkb. That thing is light as hell and portable. not only that the japs designed a special traveling case for the hhkb

I like that carrying case--I use it for my Hammer Alps keyboard. :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 20 February 2016, 05:53:56
HHKB is programmable with dip switches.  You can't change every key, but it's not purely stock.

Not to mention that if you've spent $300 on your HHKB it probably has a hasu controller.  ;)  Unless you live in the EU and didn't proxy it, I suppose.

Living in the EU is horror to buy anything from outside the EU. They aftertax you AND have you buy for electronics import although legally you shouldnt'. My 87U was 80 dolllars more expensive because of that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 20 February 2016, 06:52:30
carbon fiber on a keyboard looks bad
I am OK with things made of carbon fiber if there are engineering reasons for it, but if it isn't made of carbon fiber then it should not look like carbon fiber.
Carbon fiber-printed vinyl is a filthy lie!

RIP johnny depp
He isn't dead! But with the bad luck we have had this year so far with celeb deaths... *knocks on wood*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: theoriginal123123 on Sat, 20 February 2016, 06:59:04
HHKB is programmable with dip switches.  You can't change every key, but it's not purely stock.

Not to mention that if you've spent $300 on your HHKB it probably has a hasu controller.  ;)  Unless you live in the EU and didn't proxy it, I suppose.

Living in the EU is horror to buy anything from outside the EU. They aftertax you AND have you buy for electronics import although legally you shouldnt'. My 87U was 80 dolllars more expensive because of that.

Being in the UK, goddamn VAT is the bane of my existence.  :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sinusoid on Sat, 20 February 2016, 08:45:08
@jamster
When you have a light keyboard, and want to make it heavier, you attach weights.
When you have a heavy keyboard, and you want to make it lighter, you buy a new keyboard.

With the former approach, you can also make the weight unevenly distributed, so the damn thing doesn't fall off your knees when you type while being curled up in a train or a bus, for example.

Or better yet, sandwich the carbon with some li-ion prismatic cells. You keep the weight you want, and get a powerbank.  #justdigitalnomadthings   :cool:

Agreed that carbon fiber is pretty limited when it comes to complex shapes.

I've seen research that correlated carbon fibers to health problems, they act similarly to asbestos, carve up your lungs badly. Also heard it can accumulate in the environment.
So, agreed that it's better not to cut that stuff if you don't know what you're doing.

I have no idea how to machine or safely dispose of carbon fiber, not gonna touch it.

Still, mechanically, this is a pretty awesome material.


@appleonama

used hhkb for some time, it was meh. Got back to Logitech UltraX (1st gen).

I love the keyboards of X60-X61 thinkpads, those things are tops, feels are awesome, and they cram so many buttons in such a tight space you can reach most of them with one hand, while still being comfy to type on. Also, trackpoint.

@iLLucionist
True, this. Located in EU too, was thinking about expatting myself, but can't decide on a location.


@Findecanor
Yeah! Filthy lie!




I think that placing your super awesome keyboard on top of a laptop keyboard looks stupid. Just get a tablet instead.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Sat, 20 February 2016, 19:33:48
Sky Dolch looks better than expected
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 20 February 2016, 19:35:13
Sky Dolch looks better than expected

i wish they'd stop with -name- dolch. it's so over done
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 20 February 2016, 19:36:31
Sky Dolch looks better than expected

I still wouldn't get it.  It hurts to look at the legends.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Sat, 20 February 2016, 19:46:51
Sky Dolch looks better than expected

i wish they'd stop with -name- dolch. it's so over done

yeah its kind of had its name dragged through the mud by now

Sky Dolch looks better than expected

I still wouldn't get it.  It hurts to look at the legends.

The only one with the funky legends seemed to be the short shift? Did I miss some
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Sat, 20 February 2016, 20:22:51
Sky Dolch looks better than expected

i wish they'd stop with -name- dolch. it's so over done

Miami-fuse Dolch confirmed
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 21 February 2016, 02:05:29
Sky Dolch looks better than expected
man you need to stop buying all them plastic! I know you want to buy the sky dolch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 21 February 2016, 02:20:22
For the first time saw a keyboard with what I assume was an 'artisan' on it... well, at least the Esc key was a skull. It also had blank red and black caps.

It was about as tasteful as 80s fashion, only without the mitigating edge of potential irony.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 21 February 2016, 11:59:19
can we update the OP with popular unpopular opinions just so everyone can stop posting the same 5 things?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Sun, 21 February 2016, 12:04:42
can we update the OP with popular unpopular opinions just so everyone can stop posting the same 5 things?

But then we'll quickly run out of things to post.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 21 February 2016, 12:23:34
The Alps switch needs to eat a hamburger (http://i.imgur.com/GvrEEqp.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 21 February 2016, 16:56:36
can we update the OP with popular unpopular opinions just so everyone can stop posting the same 5 things?

But then we lose loads of content!

On an unrelated note, artisans are too expensive, the HHKB looks silly and Razer make good products.

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Corsa1r on Sun, 21 February 2016, 17:00:24
Artisans are too expensive (and 98% of them look ridiculous, gaudy, awful), and Razer make good products (minus their keyboards).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 21 February 2016, 17:00:36
can we update the OP with popular unpopular opinions just so everyone can stop posting the same 5 things?

But then we lose loads of content!

On an unrelated note, artisans are too expensive, the HHKB looks silly and Razer make good products.

 :rolleyes:

dude you forgot that LEDs are dumb
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 21 February 2016, 17:06:31
I have some switch testers in a shopper cart just waiting to be ordered. I'm not expecting much from Razer's green and orange switch (http://i.imgur.com/BzVeNPs.gif).



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Wed, 24 February 2016, 08:58:07
Here's why 5.5u spacebar is better than 6.25u:

1) It doesn't turn non-standard compact boards into a mess. Be it 40%, 66% or 65/75%, it "just werks".
2) It works with other spacebars that are made making increasing the numbers of layouts easier. Add 1.5u, you get 7u(Alps or MX), remove 1.5u, you get 4u(MX).
3) It splits nicely. You either get 1.25u-1.5u-1.5u-1.25u, two 2.75u's or two 2.25u's with a space for a trackpoint in the middle(forgot which custom board did the last one but it exists)
4) It's available for Alps and doesn't have the stabilizer problem with 6.25u Alps spacebars. And it exists for MX mount too(Noppoo Choc Mini, Roccat keyboards, there's probably more I missed).
5) Hardly anybody presses the spacebar on it's edges, so most people won't miss the 6.25u when using 5.5u
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eternalmetal on Wed, 24 February 2016, 11:01:00
Ive honestly never seen the purpose of having such a big spacebar.  Looking at all of my old keyboards and their wear points, I strike the spacebar in just about the same place every time. Even if I also used my left thumb (which I dont), I would still strike just left of center, which leaves the majority of the spacebar in 'never strike' category.  A shorter spacebar has better balance and stability to it. 

I feel like the only reason why people would complain about having a non-standard spacebar size would be because of the lack of keycap set compatibility. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Wed, 24 February 2016, 11:04:50
That's why they made the hhkb. That thing is light as hell and portable. not only that the japs designed a special traveling case for the hhkb

but sometimes people don't want to use **** switches...

Yo I think you have a typo


Why do you some of you take your keyboards to class? I face palm when I see people do this
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: axtran on Wed, 24 February 2016, 11:06:53

Ive honestly never seen the purpose of having such a big spacebar.  Looking at all of my old keyboards and their wear points, I strike the spacebar in just about the same place every time. Even if I also used my left thumb (which I dont), I would still strike just left of center, which leaves the majority of the spacebar in 'never strike' category.  A shorter spacebar has better balance and stability to it. 

I feel like the only reason why people would complain about having a non-standard spacebar size would be because of the lack of keycap set compatibility.

I always hit space almost directly on top of a stepped Cherry spacebar switch location. It's so consistent I should just roll a 1U or 2U cap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Wed, 24 February 2016, 11:31:19
Ive honestly never seen the purpose of having such a big spacebar.  Looking at all of my old keyboards and their wear points, I strike the spacebar in just about the same place every time. Even if I also used my left thumb (which I dont), I would still strike just left of center, which leaves the majority of the spacebar in 'never strike' category.  A shorter spacebar has better balance and stability to it. 

I feel like the only reason why people would complain about having a non-standard spacebar size would be because of the lack of keycap set compatibility. 

JIS is calling to you. It would be rude not to answer.  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 24 February 2016, 12:46:46
That's why they made the hhkb. That thing is light as hell and portable. not only that the japs designed a special traveling case for the hhkb

but sometimes people don't want to use **** switches...

Yo I think you have a typo


Why do you some of you take your keyboards to class? I face palm when I see people do this
I had an olympus digital voice recorder for lectures. I guess other people have different methods.

There should be more big ass enter keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nephiel on Wed, 24 February 2016, 12:49:45
Here's why 5.5u spacebar is better than 6.25u:

1) It doesn't turn non-standard compact boards into a mess. Be it 40%, 66% or 65/75%, it "just werks".
2) It works with other spacebars that are made making increasing the numbers of layouts easier. Add 1.5u, you get 7u(Alps or MX), remove 1.5u, you get 4u(MX).
3) It splits nicely. You either get 1.25u-1.5u-1.5u-1.25u, two 2.75u's or two 2.25u's with a space for a trackpoint in the middle(forgot which custom board did the last one but it exists)
4) It's available for Alps and doesn't have the stabilizer problem with 6.25u Alps spacebars. And it exists for MX mount too(Noppoo Choc Mini).
5) Hardly anybody presses the spacebar on it's edges, so most people won't miss the 6.25u when using 5.5u

Ive honestly never seen the purpose of having such a big spacebar.  Looking at all of my old keyboards and their wear points, I strike the spacebar in just about the same place every time. Even if I also used my left thumb (which I dont), I would still strike just left of center, which leaves the majority of the spacebar in 'never strike' category.  A shorter spacebar has better balance and stability to it. 

I feel like the only reason why people would complain about having a non-standard spacebar size would be because of the lack of keycap set compatibility.

I always hit space almost directly on top of a stepped Cherry spacebar switch location. It's so consistent I should just roll a 1U or 2U cap.

I agree. 6.25u for a single key is just a huge waste of Space.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Wed, 24 February 2016, 12:54:41
big ass enter keys.

+1 for this.

Sick of the pyramid of death (/\) at the end of URLs with ANSI enter. Or random \ at the end of chat lines.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 24 February 2016, 13:15:58
big ass enter keys.

+1 for this.

Sick of the pyramid of death (/\) at the end of URLs with ANSI enter. Or random \ at the end of chat lines.

Sometimes I think ISO enter could be better...then I remember how awful it looks.  I still want to mess with alt enters like using the numpad instead.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 24 February 2016, 18:24:26
rerunning sets is a complete waste of time
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 24 February 2016, 18:26:39
rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 24 February 2016, 18:28:50
rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Who cares if something sells thousands of sets - if you rerun anything its going to get more sales than the first time it went around - its because the market is growing at a very fast pace

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity and clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 24 February 2016, 22:45:01
Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity
How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done
Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 24 February 2016, 23:01:12

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity
How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done
Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

The fact that the wait for an SA set is 6 months now compared to 2-3 months this time last year says that it does slow down production

I also don't like it because it literally kills the financial and non financial value of sets
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 24 February 2016, 23:04:59

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity
How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done
Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

The fact that the wait for an SA set is 6 months now compared to 2-3 months this time last year says that it does slow down production

I also don't like it because it literally kills the financial and non financial value of sets

How many repeat SA sets even are there? Besides Pulse, which I'm not sure has even started?

Also, I rarely see sets sell for more than they were bought for (besides OTD stuff). The value of a set basically is consistent with retail price. And what the hell is non-financial value? Sentimental?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 24 February 2016, 23:20:38


Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity
How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done
Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

The fact that the wait for an SA set is 6 months now compared to 2-3 months this time last year says that it does slow down production

I also don't like it because it literally kills the financial and non financial value of sets

How many repeat SA sets even are there? Besides Pulse, which I'm not sure has even started?

Also, I rarely see sets sell for more than they were bought for (besides OTD stuff). The value of a set basically is consistent with retail price. And what the hell is non-financial value? Sentimental?

Jukebox is about to start, so is 1976. Pulse is supposedly going to keep running over and over.

Yeah I think there is sentimental value in owning something run at a certain point in the same way that older members are way more likely to have clacks or KBKs
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 24 February 2016, 23:24:21


Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity
How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done
Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

The fact that the wait for an SA set is 6 months now compared to 2-3 months this time last year says that it does slow down production

I also don't like it because it literally kills the financial and non financial value of sets

How many repeat SA sets even are there? Besides Pulse, which I'm not sure has even started?

Also, I rarely see sets sell for more than they were bought for (besides OTD stuff). The value of a set basically is consistent with retail price. And what the hell is non-financial value? Sentimental?

Jukebox is about to start, so is 1976. Pulse is supposedly going to keep running over and over.

Yeah I think there is sentimental value in owning something run at a certain point in the same way that older members are way more likely to have clacks or KBKs

Guess I don't follow SA enough to speak on that then. Has there been any change in times with DCS or DSA? (honestly don't know)

With this, I also think the rarity factor is nice with artisans caps that there may be less than 10 of, but I really don't see it with a keyset that 100+ people already have that's going to spread around.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 24 February 2016, 23:35:03



Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity
How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done
Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

The fact that the wait for an SA set is 6 months now compared to 2-3 months this time last year says that it does slow down production

I also don't like it because it literally kills the financial and non financial value of sets

How many repeat SA sets even are there? Besides Pulse, which I'm not sure has even started?

Also, I rarely see sets sell for more than they were bought for (besides OTD stuff). The value of a set basically is consistent with retail price. And what the hell is non-financial value? Sentimental?

Jukebox is about to start, so is 1976. Pulse is supposedly going to keep running over and over.

Yeah I think there is sentimental value in owning something run at a certain point in the same way that older members are way more likely to have clacks or KBKs

Guess I don't follow SA enough to speak on that then. Has there been any change in times with DCS or DSA? (honestly don't know)

With this, I also think the rarity factor is nice with artisans caps that there may be less than 10 of, but I really don't see it with a keyset that 100+ people already have that's going to spread around.

Nowhere near as active as SA - only sets apart from that CS themed DSA one that ran last year have been reruns (sanctuary, granite). Njbair ran a GB for DCS alps (but there isn't any other option really for alps)

Yeah I'm with you on the artisan caps - it's just when there are tons of interesting looking sets sitting around in IC status that MD isn't going to run because they can go with a sure thing they've run before it's a little disheartening
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 24 February 2016, 23:37:51
Nowhere near as active as SA - only sets apart from that CS themed DSA one that ran last year have been reruns (sanctuary, granite). Njbair ran a GB for DCS alps (but there isn't any other option really for alps)

Yeah I'm with you on the artisan caps - it's just when there are tons of interesting looking sets sitting around in IC status that MD isn't going to run because they can go with a sure thing they've run before it's a little disheartening

Yeah, now that I think about it Cherry and SA have basically been the only things run. Honestly I think the bigger problem is the sheer number of different ICs going on. Numbers get spread too thing between them. But honestly, a re-run just might be substantially more well-received than any possible sets running at the time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 24 February 2016, 23:44:41


Yeah, now that I think about it Cherry and SA have basically been the only things run. Honestly I think the bigger problem is the sheer number of different ICs going on. Numbers get spread too thing between them. But honestly, a re-run just might be substantially more well-received than any possible sets running at the time.

Yeah theres a crapload of ICs out there.

I think part of the problem is that it's easy to feel like running a set is some sort of rite of passage to being in the community

Yeah I agree that in circumstances where numbers are too thin for some buys there's nothing wrong with doing a sure thing

I just get this vibe from Massdrop that given enough "sure thing" sets they are just going to create a never ending loop of the same SA sets
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 24 February 2016, 23:47:53
Plus this is going to sound a bit silly but I kind of prefer a community where there are relatively small numbers of many many sets rather than just large numbers of a few sets

Otherwise it's pretty boring
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Thu, 25 February 2016, 03:50:53
Ive honestly never seen the purpose of having such a big spacebar.  Looking at all of my old keyboards and their wear points, I strike the spacebar in just about the same place every time. Even if I also used my left thumb (which I dont), I would still strike just left of center, which leaves the majority of the spacebar in 'never strike' category.  A shorter spacebar has better balance and stability to it. 

I feel like the only reason why people would complain about having a non-standard spacebar size would be because of the lack of keycap set compatibility.

I always hit space almost directly on top of a stepped Cherry spacebar switch location. It's so consistent I should just roll a 1U or 2U cap.

I agree. 6.25u for a single key is just a huge waste of Space.

You all seem to have missed it:

2) It works with other spacebars that are made making increasing the numbers of layouts easier. Add 1.5u, you get 7u(Alps or MX), remove 1.5u, you get 4u(MX).
3) It splits nicely. You either get 1.25u-1.5u-1.5u-1.25u, two 2.75u's or two 2.25u's with a space for a trackpoint in the middle(forgot which custom board did the last one but it exists)

When you're designing a board to support 6.25 and some other size, you're pretty much putting two PCB's on one. The end effect is a mess of holes like JD45(no offense jdcarpe). The only sensible way to turn the standard spacebar into something smaller without doing so is the way The Golbat does it(6.25→2.75+2.25+1.25). But with 5.5u, you can have your miniature spaces.

Plus this is going to sound a bit silly but I kind of prefer a community where there are relatively small numbers of many many sets rather than just large numbers of a few sets

Otherwise it's pretty boring

Ditto.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 25 February 2016, 07:44:03
A shorter space bar than standards ( currently 6.25 and to less extend 7) makes sense only if you need the extra space at the bottom for more modifier keys; but, do you really need more? I have been using only win, alt, altgr, and fn at the bottom, plus control at the capslock and I have pretty much everything needed. What else do you need more space for, at the bottom?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jaffers on Thu, 25 February 2016, 07:52:20
I don't like the majority of OTD keyboards. They are too curvy or have that horrible tramp stamp of numbers above the arrow cluster. Also bright colours suck

*jaff hides..  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Thu, 25 February 2016, 08:36:03
rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Granite I see as a bit of a different beast, just because he changes a decent amount each round and there are a ton of child sets, its truly a DIY keyset from a design standpoint.

But I have to agree that rerunning tons of sets is sort of the opposite of what I think we want. As others have said, if the schedule just gets loaded with reruns bought by new people in the community, it will lead to less development of interesting sets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 25 February 2016, 09:45:34
rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Granite I see as a bit of a different beast, just because he changes a decent amount each round and there are a ton of child sets, its truly a DIY keyset from a design standpoint.

But I have to agree that rerunning tons of sets is sort of the opposite of what I think we want. As others have said, if the schedule just gets loaded with reruns bought by new people in the community, it will lead to less development of interesting sets.


The only part of new sets' development that is constraint is their manufacturing process, the actual design, community consultation and due diligence are all open to happen simultaneously at any time; therefore, let some designers run their sets as much as they want, as others are proposing new ideas. The only thing that can actually limit creativity is the community buying the same things once and again, instead of demanding more the innovative sets. Personally, I think that the Granite phenomenon happens because of the flexibility of the DSA profile, the material (many think that PBT is better) and the hype.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 25 February 2016, 14:33:52
rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Granite I see as a bit of a different beast, just because he changes a decent amount each round and there are a ton of child sets, its truly a DIY keyset from a design standpoint.

But I have to agree that rerunning tons of sets is sort of the opposite of what I think we want. As others have said, if the schedule just gets loaded with reruns bought by new people in the community, it will lead to less development of interesting sets.


The only part of new sets' development that is constraint is their manufacturing process, the actual design, community consultation and due diligence are all open to happen simultaneously at any time; therefore, let some designers run their sets as much as they want, as others are proposing new ideas. The only thing that can actually limit creativity is the community buying the same things once and again, instead of demanding more the innovative sets. Personally, I think that the Granite phenomenon happens because of the flexibility of the DSA profile, the material (many think that PBT is better) and the hype.
I'll propose an alternate scenario:

Massdrop introduces a subsection dedicated to mechanical keyboards, with a promise that they will never run the same drop twice.

Do you think that would effect the quality of Massdrop's offerings? Would each drop be as unique as they are now?

I'm inspired by the drops that run more than once. I think multiple runs of the same keysets or caps, influences people to become better artists.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 25 February 2016, 15:06:48
rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Granite I see as a bit of a different beast, just because he changes a decent amount each round and there are a ton of child sets, its truly a DIY keyset from a design standpoint.

But I have to agree that rerunning tons of sets is sort of the opposite of what I think we want. As others have said, if the schedule just gets loaded with reruns bought by new people in the community, it will lead to less development of interesting sets.


The only part of new sets' development that is constraint is their manufacturing process, the actual design, community consultation and due diligence are all open to happen simultaneously at any time; therefore, let some designers run their sets as much as they want, as others are proposing new ideas. The only thing that can actually limit creativity is the community buying the same things once and again, instead of demanding more the innovative sets. Personally, I think that the Granite phenomenon happens because of the flexibility of the DSA profile, the material (many think that PBT is better) and the hype.
I'll propose an alternate scenario:

Massdrop introduces a subsection dedicated to mechanical keyboards, with a promise that they will never run the same drop twice.

Do you think that would effect the quality of Massdrop's offerings? Would each drop be as unique as they are now?

I'm inspired by the drops that run more than once. I think multiple runs of the same keysets or caps, influences people to become better artists.


MD is a retailer that happens to get advantage of the group buy format to get better prices and more orders, it is not about improving the perceive quality of the offers but about economy of scale, if something does not have demand, it does not matter how special it is, or how good is its design. You are mixing things that does not blend.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 25 February 2016, 15:36:24
rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Granite I see as a bit of a different beast, just because he changes a decent amount each round and there are a ton of child sets, its truly a DIY keyset from a design standpoint.

But I have to agree that rerunning tons of sets is sort of the opposite of what I think we want. As others have said, if the schedule just gets loaded with reruns bought by new people in the community, it will lead to less development of interesting sets.


The only part of new sets' development that is constraint is their manufacturing process, the actual design, community consultation and due diligence are all open to happen simultaneously at any time; therefore, let some designers run their sets as much as they want, as others are proposing new ideas. The only thing that can actually limit creativity is the community buying the same things once and again, instead of demanding more the innovative sets. Personally, I think that the Granite phenomenon happens because of the flexibility of the DSA profile, the material (many think that PBT is better) and the hype.
I'll propose an alternate scenario:

Massdrop introduces a subsection dedicated to mechanical keyboards, with a promise that they will never run the same drop twice.

Do you think that would effect the quality of Massdrop's offerings? Would each drop be as unique as they are now?

I'm inspired by the drops that run more than once. I think multiple runs of the same keysets or caps, influences people to become better artists.


MD is a retailer with happens to get advantage of the group buy format to get better prices and more orders, it is not about improving the perceive quality of the offers but about economy of scale, if something does not have demand, it does not matter how special it is, or how good is its design. You are mixing things that does not blend.
I'm know I'm new here but there is some validity to my post. I understand Massdrop is a large retailer set up to make a profit. What I was attempting to say is that these 'formats' can sometimes have positive side effects to the sub cultures involved in the process. MD also has a certain influence on demand because MD has developed an atmosphere that people enjoy. Maybe you don't agree that MD has developed an atmosphere that people enjoy, that is understandable. I think we can agree that MD is a catchy name, and the MD team developed a functional business model.

I understand how some people might find Massdrop offensive. What was once a small niche community is now growing exponentially because there are market places such as Massdrop.

I've yet to join a small group buy or a MD drop, but over the past year I have watched a small community grow, and growth is good for the future.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: The Hobbiest on Thu, 25 February 2016, 16:05:05
I think the rerunning of sets is actually a positive thing.  It's good for the manufacturer business wise and good for the customer demand wise.  The collector doesn't really lose out because he still owns the sets.  Only the flippers could possibly lose out and that's the smallest population out of all these and they tend to only have their self interest at mind in the matter.  Just my unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 25 February 2016, 16:41:10
Re-running sets is a bad thing and a good thing.  Bad because it encourages laziness and discourages innovating new designs, good because it stops douchebags from flipping for profit and because it helps preople get sets that can be hard to get.

I'm more okay with SP re-runs than GMK.  Dolch re-runs need to die.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 25 February 2016, 18:05:05
Re-running sets is a bad thing and a good thing.  Bad because it encourages laziness and discourages innovating new designs, good because it stops douchebags from flipping for profit and because it helps preople get sets that can be hard to get.

I'm more okay with SP re-runs than GMK.  Dolch re-runs need to die.

Dolch is literally horse atoms at this point
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jd29 on Fri, 26 February 2016, 00:51:07
Decent rubber domes like the Thai Quietkey have superior typing feel to most mechanical keyboards. They're super tactile with a pleasurable force curve. A collapsing dome just feels nice, with a very forgiving bottom-out.

The trusty Quietkey isn't as fun as my SMKs, but it's certainly more comfortable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Fri, 26 February 2016, 10:10:55
Decent rubber domes like the Thai Quietkey have superior typing feel to most mechanical keyboards. They're super tactile with a pleasurable force curve. A collapsing dome just feels nice, with a very forgiving bottom-out.

The trusty Quietkey isn't as fun as my SMKs, but it's certainly more comfortable.

I'll build on that:

In general, high quality rubber domes make for better tactility than nearly all mechanical implementations. Far more pronounced, smooth, and comfortable. So many mechanical implementations are notchy or way too subtle to be considered tactile even.

Also, Type-S (silenced) Topre makes an unpleasant sound -- about as bad as the cheapest of membrane keyboards.

Come at me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 26 February 2016, 17:13:18
I like rgb lights on my cherry boards  :-[
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Sat, 27 February 2016, 00:58:58
rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Who cares if something sells thousands of sets - if you rerun anything its going to get more sales than the first time it went around - its because the market is growing at a very fast pace

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity and clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done

Never really bought this argument.  Give the people what they want.  Plus, it really hasn't stifled creativity thus far.  If anything, I think some are inspired by the thoughts of creating something worthy of a rerun.

Sure, it clogs up production since we're SA-happy these days.  Though it's why we're now seeing some more GMK and DSA sets being proposed. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 03 March 2016, 20:25:25
too much gmk ic
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 03 March 2016, 20:54:18
too much gmk ic

Unpopular: I hate SA, DSA, DCS, PBT in general, OEM profile in general = I love GMK, only.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 03 March 2016, 21:02:55
too much gmk ic

Unpopular: I hate SA, DSA, DCS, PBT in general, OEM profile in general = I love GMK, only.
I don't believe it!  :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lootbag on Thu, 03 March 2016, 21:15:08
Unpopular: I hate SA, DSA, DCS, PBT in general, OEM profile in general = I love GMK, only.

Truth.
GMK & Cherry, only.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 03 March 2016, 23:13:42
I can't feel the different between typing on a full metal keyboard and typing on a plastic keyboard at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: njbair on Thu, 03 March 2016, 23:15:41
I like SP DCS, at least on Alps switches. I don't think I would like big heavy thick ABS on most Alps varieties.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AD on Fri, 04 March 2016, 03:46:47
The two worst:
1.) Compact keyboards such as laptops in which keys are smaller or closer together
2.) Low-profile keycaps (including laptops or touchscreen-type keys)

Next on my list is backlighting or illumination used on so many modern keyboards.

A more minor complaint is that more and more keyboards seem to be black. As with the lighting, it doesn't look as professional or high quality to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombiegristle on Fri, 04 March 2016, 04:21:11
I really love the Surface Pro 4's "type cover" keys and it's making me hesitate to go all-in on a travel mechanical.

I love the tenkey and for any non-travel keyboard, having one is a basic requirement for my consideration.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: G33K on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:24:56
Tenkey is a necessity for me.  I learned to touch type tenkey in addition to qwerty.  I hate using laptops or keyboards without it, it's essential for using the calculator or entering a lot of big numbers.

Laptop scissors/chiclets aren't that bad.  I feel like the short travel actually speeds up my typing.

I don't really like the Surface Pro type cover from a practical standpoint.  The idea is really cool, but it's not tactile enough for me and I either rest my hands too much and accidentally press keys, or I don't press hard enough and miss them.

I like to game and work at home in the dark, so a backlight is nice.  I'm sorry, I can touch type 140+ on some tests but haven't memorized the locations of some symbols and the F keys yet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Thu, 10 March 2016, 02:02:03
I hate any and all "normal" layouts. Ever since I got my TypeMatrix a couple of years ago, whenever I have to type on a keyboard that has Enter at the wrong location (ie, not in the middle), I get very frustrated. Same goes for backspace. I have a massive dislike for numpads, but I like cursor keys.

I've been able to touch-type QWERTY for years at about 90-100 WPM, without effort, but I wanted to switch to Dvorak for a number of reasons. My first attempt lasted about two weeks, but I gave up: my right hand was bound to QWERTY. Even though my left hand was OK with Dvorak, no matter how hard I tried, the right stuck to QWERTY. (I'm right handed)

The next attempt has been going on for 3-4 months now, I can reach 40-45 WPM on Dvorak, but right hand is still playing dumb. I'm seeing improvements though, and am not giving up. Loving the hardware dvorak switch on the TypeMatrix.

In a few months, I will also be re-learning almost everything, as I am switching to a split mechanical keyboard with blank keys. Can't wait.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ramnes on Thu, 10 March 2016, 16:02:49
Alps switches are over-hyped those days.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 10 March 2016, 16:04:41
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61YGBuXS6XL._SX450_.jpg)

this is the best keyboard
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 10 March 2016, 16:08:02
Show Image
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61YGBuXS6XL._SX450_.jpg)


this is the best keyboard

Of course it is, it is cheap, does the job, nobody will kill you to get it, you will never care to change its key caps, nor to program its layout, your spouse will never complain on how much time and money you put on it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 10 March 2016, 16:13:33
Alps switches are over-hyped those days.

Blue Alps definitely are, but I don't see much Alps hype, just people finally recognizing that there's more out there than just MX.

Most Alps lovers will admit to the cons of Alps  like how hard it is to find caps, stabilizer issues, how modern Alps are inferior, and how they can be hit or miss depending on condition.

Now if you said Gaterons/Zealios, I'd agree.  If course, if someone wants to send me Zealios to try and change my mind, I'm open to that...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 10 March 2016, 16:17:20
Kailh are awesome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 10 March 2016, 16:47:31
Kailh are awesome.

Eat more kailh?  Kailh I'd awesome is a popular sentiment in the PNW.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 10 March 2016, 17:05:07
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 10 March 2016, 17:11:04
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)


Gross.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 10 March 2016, 17:12:59
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)


Gross.

Not sure this is an unpopular opinion.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Thu, 10 March 2016, 17:14:45
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)


Anyone who uses razer should be immediately banned  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 10 March 2016, 17:15:54
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)


Anyone who uses razer should be immediately banned  :p

Let's not be too hasty. I think "enlightening" is better than banning :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 18:45:12
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)

I wish cherry used this color for greens.

Neon green and black is so sexy <3
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:08:46
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)

I wish cherry used this color for greens.

Neon green and black is so sexy <3
Metal is not suppose to be green! The way I see it, that bright green coating makes the metal look like playdoh (http://i.imgur.com/3zm1R07.gif) 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whmeltonjr on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:10:34
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)


Anyone who uses razer should be immediately banned  :p

RIP me. My work keyboard is a 2013 Razer with MX Blues.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:12:28
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)


Anyone who uses razer should be immediately banned  :p

RIP me. My work keyboard is a 2013 Razer with MX Blues.

Damn, sorry dude.  It was a good run :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:12:50
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)

I wish cherry used this color for greens.

Neon green and black is so sexy <3
Metal is not suppose to be green! The way I see it, that bright green coating makes the metal look like playdoh
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3zm1R07.gif)

BUT DAT COLOR
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whmeltonjr on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:13:21
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)


Anyone who uses razer should be immediately banned  :p

RIP me. My work keyboard is a 2013 Razer with MX Blues.

Damn, sorry dude.  It was a good run :(

Thanks friend. I enjoyed my time here. Goodbye geekhack. I'll miss you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:17:21
I love vegetable greens, but this is too much green.
Show Image
(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7911/RZBWU_14.JPG)


Anyone who uses razer should be immediately banned  :p

Let's not be too hasty. I think "enlightening" is better than banning :)

There is no saving them...  :-[
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:28:27
Well while we're on the topic

I think the razer hate is a huge circle jerk. People will always buy **** products, I mean, just look at Apple </****ty joke>

But really, I think it's sorta beating a dead horse.

please be gentle
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:40:37
Well while we're on the topic

I think the razer hate is a huge circle jerk. People will always buy **** products, I mean, just look at Apple </****ty joke>

But really, I think it's sorta beating a dead horse.

please be gentle

Honestly half the **** posted here is a dumb hate-circlejerk.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:43:03
Well while we're on the topic

I think the razer hate is a huge circle jerk. People will always buy **** products, I mean, just look at Apple </****ty joke>

But really, I think it's sorta beating a dead horse.

please be gentle

Honestly half the **** posted here is a dumb hate-circlejerk.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: DSA is better than SA.  :))

Let's see y'all jerk that circle, or whatever.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:44:08
Well while we're on the topic

I think the razer hate is a huge circle jerk. People will always buy **** products, I mean, just look at Apple </****ty joke>

But really, I think it's sorta beating a dead horse.

please be gentle

Honestly half the **** posted here is a dumb hate-circlejerk.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: DSA is better than SA.  :))

Let's see y'all jerk that circle, or whatever.

SA is literally one of the worst profiles I've ever had the mispleasure of experiencing :-*

DSA isn't much better though...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:45:54
Well while we're on the topic

I think the razer hate is a huge circle jerk. People will always buy **** products, I mean, just look at Apple </****ty joke>

But really, I think it's sorta beating a dead horse.

please be gentle

Honestly half the **** posted here is a dumb hate-circlejerk.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: DSA is better than SA.  :))

Let's see y'all jerk that circle, or whatever.

SA is literally one of the worst profiles I've ever had the mispleasure of experiencing :-*

DSA isn't much better though...

DSA > Cherry ~= OEM > SA

I have yet to try G20 or DCS, and I still buy SA sets because I really like how they look. I end up selling them within a month though.  :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:46:57
Well while we're on the topic

I think the razer hate is a huge circle jerk. People will always buy **** products, I mean, just look at Apple </****ty joke>

But really, I think it's sorta beating a dead horse.

please be gentle

Honestly half the **** posted here is a dumb hate-circlejerk.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: DSA is better than SA.  :))

Let's see y'all jerk that circle, or whatever.

SA is literally one of the worst profiles I've ever had the mispleasure of experiencing :-*

DSA isn't much better though...

DSA > Cherry ~= OEM > SA

I have yet to try G20 or DCS, and I still buy SA sets because I really like how they look. I end up selling them within a month though.  :(

Haha, OEM on Cherry level. There goes your credibility I guess
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:46:57
Well while we're on the topic

I think the razer hate is a huge circle jerk. People will always buy **** products, I mean, just look at Apple </****ty joke>

But really, I think it's sorta beating a dead horse.

please be gentle

Honestly half the **** posted here is a dumb hate-circlejerk.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: DSA is better than SA.  :))

Let's see y'all jerk that circle, or whatever.

Honestly I like them both equally. I've never gotten the hate on DSA, it's not that ****ty to type on.

Also Crap Bags have DSA, and that means unicorn vomit  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:48:14
Well while we're on the topic

I think the razer hate is a huge circle jerk. People will always buy **** products, I mean, just look at Apple </****ty joke>

But really, I think it's sorta beating a dead horse.

please be gentle

Honestly half the **** posted here is a dumb hate-circlejerk.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: DSA is better than SA.  :))

Let's see y'all jerk that circle, or whatever.

SA is god awful.. I would much rather use DSA
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:48:16
I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:48:44
Well while we're on the topic

I think the razer hate is a huge circle jerk. People will always buy **** products, I mean, just look at Apple </****ty joke>

But really, I think it's sorta beating a dead horse.

please be gentle

Honestly half the **** posted here is a dumb hate-circlejerk.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: DSA is better than SA.  :))

Let's see y'all jerk that circle, or whatever.

SA is god awful.. I would much rather use DSA

I'd rather chop my hands off and type with my feet than use SA
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:54:18
I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"

+1

Why do all of these sets have such loud colors? I'm fine with colorways like Pulse, since it's mostly black with some nice bright colors. Sets like Troubled Minds though are so bright it's too flashy for my taste.

I also think 1976 isn't that cool, who the hell likes brown?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:54:58
ANSI SUX
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:55:47
More
Well while we're on the topic

I think the razer hate is a huge circle jerk. People will always buy **** products, I mean, just look at Apple </****ty joke>

But really, I think it's sorta beating a dead horse.

please be gentle

Honestly half the **** posted here is a dumb hate-circlejerk.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: DSA is better than SA.  :))

Let's see y'all jerk that circle, or whatever.

SA is god awful.. I would much rather use DSA
I'd rather chop my hands off and type with my feet than use SA

This is the kind of hate train I can get aboard.  I hate the looks and feel of SA, especially the overly sculpted top row that only makes sense if you got some weird staggered elevated keyboard rows going on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:56:15
I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"

+1

Why do all of these sets have such loud colors? I'm fine with colorways like Pulse, since it's mostly black with some nice bright colors. Sets like Troubled Minds though are so bright it's too flashy for my taste.

I also think 1976 isn't that cool, who the hell likes brown?

Well actually, when you mash enough neon colors together, it literally becomes luminescent so you can see in the dark. I get what they were going for with 1976, but honestly why would you want to mirror any sort of colorway/style from that era?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:56:27
ANSI SUX

GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!

I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"

+1

Why do all of these sets have such loud colors? I'm fine with colorways like Pulse, since it's mostly black with some nice bright colors. Sets like Troubled Minds though are so bright it's too flashy for my taste.

I also think 1976 isn't that cool, who the hell likes brown?

Right? I've had some keysets with loud colors, and in the middle of the friggin' night they wake me up with their shouting.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:57:25
ANSI SUX

>France
>Azerty
>mfw

(http://replygif.net/thumbnail/1322.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 10 March 2016, 21:00:29
I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"

+1

Why do all of these sets have such loud colors? I'm fine with colorways like Pulse, since it's mostly black with some nice bright colors. Sets like Troubled Minds though are so bright it's too flashy for my taste.

I also think 1976 isn't that cool, who the hell likes brown?

Well, two of the loud ones I've proposed I did so because they're just fun and I wanted something ridiculous and people seemed to respiond well to them.  Most of the other sets I've looked at have been far more muted
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Thu, 10 March 2016, 21:04:33
I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"

+1

Why do all of these sets have such loud colors? I'm fine with colorways like Pulse, since it's mostly black with some nice bright colors. Sets like Troubled Minds though are so bright it's too flashy for my taste.

I also think 1976 isn't that cool, who the hell likes brown?
Not only does SA profile look horrible in general all these SA themes are disgusting. Jukebox? are you kidding me... Can we also immediately ban SA users?

ANSI SUX
One wise man said "The french bunny doesn't listen to reason" we can discredit anything he says. checkmate frenchy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 21:06:07
I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"

+1

Why do all of these sets have such loud colors? I'm fine with colorways like Pulse, since it's mostly black with some nice bright colors. Sets like Troubled Minds though are so bright it's too flashy for my taste.

I also think 1976 isn't that cool, who the hell likes brown?

Well, two of the loud ones I've proposed I did so because they're just fun and I wanted something ridiculous and people seemed to respiond well to them.  Most of the other sets I've looked at have been far more muted

Why do you hate my eyes so much nubs? Honestly tons of people seem to love Skeletor, more power to ya I guess
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 21:06:17
I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"

+1

Why do all of these sets have such loud colors? I'm fine with colorways like Pulse, since it's mostly black with some nice bright colors. Sets like Troubled Minds though are so bright it's too flashy for my taste.

I also think 1976 isn't that cool, who the hell likes brown?

Well, two of the loud ones I've proposed I did so because they're just fun and I wanted something ridiculous and people seemed to respiond well to them.  Most of the other sets I've looked at have been far more muted

I wasn't really referring to joke/fun sets, those are in a category of their own.

Like unicorn vomit boards look great imo, but it's not something I would seriously use/ put on a daily driver
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 10 March 2016, 21:08:02
More
I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"

+1

Why do all of these sets have such loud colors? I'm fine with colorways like Pulse, since it's mostly black with some nice bright colors. Sets like Troubled Minds though are so bright it's too flashy for my taste.

I also think 1976 isn't that cool, who the hell likes brown?

Well, two of the loud ones I've proposed I did so because they're just fun and I wanted something ridiculous and people seemed to respiond well to them.  Most of the other sets I've looked at have been far more muted

Why do you hate my eyes so much nubs? Honestly tons of people seem to love Skeletor, more power to ya I guess

BECAUSE I'M NOT HAPPY UNLESS YOUR EYES ARE BLEEDING!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 10 March 2016, 21:16:20
I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"

+1

Why do all of these sets have such loud colors? I'm fine with colorways like Pulse, since it's mostly black with some nice bright colors. Sets like Troubled Minds though are so bright it's too flashy for my taste.

I also think 1976 isn't that cool, who the hell likes brown?
Not only does SA profile look horrible in general all these SA themes are disgusting. Jukebox? are you kidding me... Can we also immediately ban SA users?

ANSI SUX
One wise man said "The french bunny doesn't listen to reason" we can discredit anything he says. checkmate frenchy
Can someone check this thread's TDS meter? Oh my blood pressure
(https://media.giphy.com/media/yEtv1wWZpmG2s/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 21:20:27
More
I guess this is unpopular seeing how many SA sets are being bought: SA looks horrible. And honestly most of the colorways people have been coming out with recently look like ass. Eh, not to unpopular but at least I'm trying harder than "dae backlighting sucks?"

+1

Why do all of these sets have such loud colors? I'm fine with colorways like Pulse, since it's mostly black with some nice bright colors. Sets like Troubled Minds though are so bright it's too flashy for my taste.

I also think 1976 isn't that cool, who the hell likes brown?

Well, two of the loud ones I've proposed I did so because they're just fun and I wanted something ridiculous and people seemed to respiond well to them.  Most of the other sets I've looked at have been far more muted

Why do you hate my eyes so much nubs? Honestly tons of people seem to love Skeletor, more power to ya I guess

BECAUSE I'M NOT HAPPY UNLESS YOUR EYES ARE BLEEDING!

THAT'S AN INTERESTING WAY MEASURE CONTENTMENT BUT I RESPECT IT
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 11 March 2016, 00:14:53
i like the red on lz-gh
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Fri, 11 March 2016, 17:16:17
I think that, as a community, we have a very distorted view on a lot of "gamer features" like USB ports, hardware level macro, etc., and even of the idea of feature richness in general.

As I see it, these are all good things, but we've gotten trained by history: because these features were and are typically used on bad keyboards, we came to associate the features themselves with badness, which eventually transformed into the idea that the features themselves were bad. But this is just sloppy reasoning; a feature that occurs on bad keyboards and not on good keyboards might still be a good feature, and the good keyboards might be even better if they had it, even though that would make them more like the bad keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 12 March 2016, 16:45:14
That's truly an unpopular opinion.

…and for a reason.
Quote from: Antoine de Saint Exupéry
It seems that perfection is attained, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away.
Or unix philosophy, if you like: Do one thing, and do it well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: G33K on Sun, 13 March 2016, 12:04:39
https://vice-images.vice.com/images/content-images-crops/2015/11/03/minimalism-020-body-image-1446580217-size_1000.jpg
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 13 March 2016, 14:48:20
https://vice-images.vice.com/images/content-images-crops/2015/11/03/minimalism-020-body-image-1446580217-size_1000.jpg

 :)) :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 13 March 2016, 18:43:05
https://vice-images.vice.com/images/content-images-crops/2015/11/03/minimalism-020-body-image-1446580217-size_1000.jpg

 :)) :))
(http://i.imgur.com/6KEO0Sk.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Mon, 14 March 2016, 16:44:58
I'm triggered every time someone calls Topre "the world's most expensive rubberdome". That title(probably) belongs to Mad Catz S.T.R.I.K.E.7 gaymur keyboard, retailing for 300 bucks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Mon, 14 March 2016, 16:47:11
I'm triggered every time someone calls Topre "the world's most expensive rubberdome". That title(probably) belongs to Mad Catz S.T.R.I.K.E.7 gaymur keyboard, retailing for 300 bucks.

How is the board gay?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 14 March 2016, 16:51:52
I'm triggered every time someone calls Topre "the world's most expensive rubberdome". That title(probably) belongs to Mad Catz S.T.R.I.K.E.7 gaymur keyboard, retailing for 300 bucks.

Moore, Optimus Popular is holds that title at nearly $1k.

Also, why the slur?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Signature on Mon, 14 March 2016, 16:56:47
Rubberdomes aren't as bad as many say here
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Mon, 14 March 2016, 17:25:24
FILCO is one of the most over rated brands i have ever tried for the price they command.  I see very little if any difference between them and some of my more budget Ganss boards.

Now please don't hang me, my Realforc....err wife would get lonely.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Mon, 14 March 2016, 17:27:50
Talking **** about Filco is more or less a popular keyboard opinion.... now 6 years ago maybe...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Mon, 14 March 2016, 17:45:50
Really? On certain "other" Keyboard forums/places it seems they are still constantly praised.  Good to know i'm not alone, for Cherry based boards i have always been a huge KUL fan personally.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fiery on Wed, 16 March 2016, 04:19:15
QWERTY is bad and should feel bad

the best layout would be a mix between iso and ansi (long left shift, big enter)

split spacebar should be more common (I don't own one but would love to have a 60% with one so I could use one as FN)

Caps-lock and backspace should be switched and back space made 1 u adding another key there you can use.

repeating the most popular unpopular opinion. Backligtning in  general sucks, you shouldn't sit in the dark. Get a lamp.

Cherry MX greens and clears are the best MX switches.

A separate numpad is better than an integrated one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: G33K on Wed, 16 March 2016, 08:19:12
QWERTY is bad and should feel bad

the best layout would be a mix between iso and ansi (long left shift, big enter)

split spacebar should be more common (I don't own one but would love to have a 60% with one so I could use one as FN)

Caps-lock and backspace should be switched and back space made 1 u adding another key there you can use.

repeating the most popular unpopular opinion. Backligtning in  general sucks, you shouldn't sit in the dark. Get a lamp.

Cherry MX greens and clears are the best MX switches.

A separate numpad is better than an integrated one.


For the average user, there isn't any speed difference.  Unfortunately, I have to work with QWERTY when I'm not at home and on users' computers, so a switch isn't really possible for me unless I want to stumble at less than 30 wpm everywhere for a while.  It's kind of like trying to get the US to switch to metric.

I haven't used a split spacebar, but it sounds nice

Switching caps lock and backspace would be great!  I might actually make a macro to do that on my keyboard. 

I'll continue sitting in the dark like a basement dweller and you can't stop me! :p  Who needs good eyesight anyway?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lokomotivet on Wed, 16 March 2016, 08:30:28
Really? On certain "other" Keyboard forums/places it seems they are still constantly praised.  Good to know i'm not alone, for Cherry based boards i have always been a huge KUL fan personally.

I'm with you on this one. CM and Filco boards come from the same factory and most people can agree on that they are almost identical. CM even has detachable cable and LED versions (crap LEDs though but still better then nothing) but most importantly CM boards are A LOT cheaper.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pwade3 on Wed, 16 March 2016, 09:46:38
Signing up to win artisans for trade fodder should be publicly shamed.

This is probably a newbie standpoint but I don't understand why people put up with ctrlalt's group buys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: theoriginal123123 on Wed, 16 March 2016, 09:57:40
Signing up to win artisans for trade fodder should be publicly shamed.

This is probably a newbie standpoint but I don't understand why people put up with ctrlalt's group buys.

What do you mean by 'putting up with' group buys?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 16 March 2016, 09:59:54
Just because CM and Filco boards are from the same factory does not mean they are the same quality.  The Filco boards are nicer.  Personally, I don't get the Kul circlejerk that was going in for a while. 

How do you prove someone is signing up for trade fodder?  I've had caps I win and almost immediately put up for trade because they didn't go like I thought they would or I wasn't a fan of the color in person.  Also, sometimes the only way to get a cap you want is to win a cap you don't want.  It creates an unfortunate situation, but that's the way things are.  Entering to flip caps for profit, on the other hand, deserves to be shamed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 16 March 2016, 10:11:46
You can't really tell but there's a lot of people buying/raffling for artisans they don't necessary like just so they have trade power for something they actually like.
I used to do it in bro raffles.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pwade3 on Wed, 16 March 2016, 10:22:02
Signing up to win artisans for trade fodder should be publicly shamed.

This is probably a newbie standpoint but I don't understand why people put up with ctrlalt's group buys.

What do you mean by 'putting up with' group buys?

There just seems to be a lot of inefficiency, (sometimes massive) delays, I feel like I've seen a lot of updates consisting of "update soon" or lip service saying these things aren't okay without ever improving. A lot of stuff that would definitely frustrate me if I were a part of the buy. This is my perception, which could easily just be confirmation bias, you know? I'm not trying to disrespect or anything. 

What I'm saying is, I don't get why people join one of their buys when there are people who haven't gotten a product from an almost two year old order. What is there to say it wouldn't happen again? Is the payoff just that worth it? I've never been ordered from them, so I don't know, that's why I said it's probably just a newbie standpoint.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lokomotivet on Wed, 16 March 2016, 10:31:25
Just because CM and Filco boards are from the same factory does not mean they are the same quality.  The Filco boards are nicer.  Personally, I don't get the Kul circlejerk that was going in for a while. 

I never said that they are the same, but they come from the same OEM/factory. :rolleyes: Most people that have compared the two brands have said that they are almost identical.
Filco is more robust but for the big price difference I see no reason to go for one. CM's are also more available everywhere so you'll probably won't have to pay for shipping as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 16 March 2016, 11:35:39
More
Signing up to win artisans for trade fodder should be publicly shamed.

This is probably a newbie standpoint but I don't understand why people put up with ctrlalt's group buys.

What do you mean by 'putting up with' group buys?

There just seems to be a lot of inefficiency, (sometimes massive) delays, I feel like I've seen a lot of updates consisting of "update soon" or lip service saying these things aren't okay without ever improving. A lot of stuff that would definitely frustrate me if I were a part of the buy. This is my perception, which could easily just be confirmation bias, you know? I'm not trying to disrespect or anything. 

What I'm saying is, I don't get why people join one of their buys when there are people who haven't gotten a product from an almost two year old order. What is there to say it wouldn't happen again? Is the payoff just that worth it? I've never been ordered from them, so I don't know, that's why I said it's probably just a newbie standpoint.

I definitely can understand that perspective abd, unfortunately, people often get shouted down when they voice honest questions or opinions like that. 

I do wish that all the current buys would finish before they launched into new ones.  I know that if I was one of the people waiting on something from a buy done two years ago that I'd be livid seeing all these other buys launched and being fulfilled while I'm still waiting on mine to ship.  Whether or not that is a justified position is up to others to decide, but I know that's how I would feel.


More
Just because CM and Filco boards are from the same factory does not mean they are the same quality.  The Filco boards are nicer.  Personally, I don't get the Kul circlejerk that was going in for a while. 

I never said that they are the same, but they come from the same OEM/factory. :rolleyes: Most people that have compared the two brands have said that they are almost identical.
Filco is more robust but for the big price difference I see no reason to go for one. CM's are also more available everywhere so you'll probably won't have to pay for shipping as well.

You said they are almost identical and only mentioned the LEDs and cables as being different.  You're all but saying the quality is the same.  I was saying that two things made in the same factory can have radically different qualities.  For example,  the Filco had a better solder job than the CM.  Filco also has a better quality PCB than the CM board.

Yes, there has been some price inflation, but the Filco is still a higher quality board.  That was the point I was making.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pwade3 on Wed, 16 March 2016, 11:54:33
Just because CM and Filco boards are from the same factory does not mean they are the same quality.  The Filco boards are nicer.  Personally, I don't get the Kul circlejerk that was going in for a while. 

How do you prove someone is signing up for trade fodder?  I've had caps I win and almost immediately put up for trade because they didn't go like I thought they would or I wasn't a fan of the color in person.  Also, sometimes the only way to get a cap you want is to win a cap you don't want.  It creates an unfortunate situation, but that's the way things are.  Entering to flip caps for profit, on the other hand, deserves to be shamed.

That's the rub. It's a pain to prove, cases like yours are pretty understandable in my book, but I wonder how many times that's the case? And yeah, I get the economics that it's a necessity of sorts, it's just frustrating to see a cap someone actually wants go to someone who is just using it as leverage.

Also, I figured shaming for-profit flippers wasn't exactly an unpopular opinion.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fiery on Wed, 16 March 2016, 11:59:44
QWERTY is bad and should feel bad

the best layout would be a mix between iso and ansi (long left shift, big enter)

split spacebar should be more common (I don't own one but would love to have a 60% with one so I could use one as FN)

Caps-lock and backspace should be switched and back space made 1 u adding another key there you can use.

repeating the most popular unpopular opinion. Backligtning in  general sucks, you shouldn't sit in the dark. Get a lamp.

Cherry MX greens and clears are the best MX switches.

A separate numpad is better than an integrated one.


For the average user, there isn't any speed difference.  Unfortunately, I have to work with QWERTY when I'm not at home and on users' computers, so a switch isn't really possible for me unless I want to stumble at less than 30 wpm everywhere for a while.  It's kind of like trying to get the US to switch to metric.

I haven't used a split spacebar, but it sounds nice

Switching caps lock and backspace would be great!  I might actually make a macro to do that on my keyboard. 

I'll continue sitting in the dark like a basement dweller and you can't stop me! :p  Who needs good eyesight anyway?

Well the US really should switch to metric in my opinion, same with the UK. But I can't change that, just like I can't get QWERTY to go away and make my only problem with Dvorak go away (that people use QWERTY lol).

I haven't used a split spacebar but I am 99% sure I could adapt to  using the other half with my right thumb as I currently only use my left thumb for space. Which on a 60% would be bound to FN for me.

The eyesight part is one of the reasons you shouldn't sit in the dark lol.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 16 March 2016, 12:25:45
QWERTY is bad and should feel bad

the best layout would be a mix between iso and ansi (long left shift, big enter)

split spacebar should be more common (I don't own one but would love to have a 60% with one so I could use one as FN)

Caps-lock and backspace should be switched and back space made 1 u adding another key there you can use.

repeating the most popular unpopular opinion. Backligtning in  general sucks, you shouldn't sit in the dark. Get a lamp.

Cherry MX greens and clears are the best MX switches.

A separate numpad is better than an integrated one.


For the average user, there isn't any speed difference.  Unfortunately, I have to work with QWERTY when I'm not at home and on users' computers, so a switch isn't really possible for me unless I want to stumble at less than 30 wpm everywhere for a while.  It's kind of like trying to get the US to switch to metric.

I haven't used a split spacebar, but it sounds nice

Switching caps lock and backspace would be great!  I might actually make a macro to do that on my keyboard. 

I'll continue sitting in the dark like a basement dweller and you can't stop me! :p  Who needs good eyesight anyway?

Well the US really should switch to metric in my opinion, same with the UK. But I can't change that, just like I can't get QWERTY to go away and make my only problem with Dvorak go away (that people use QWERTY lol).

I haven't used a split spacebar but I am 99% sure I could adapt to  using the other half with my right thumb as I currently only use my left thumb for space. Which on a 60% would be bound to FN for me.

The eyesight part is one of the reasons you shouldn't sit in the dark lol.
One set of tools?
Fine measurements in an instant?
Metric please!  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fiery on Wed, 16 March 2016, 12:29:28
QWERTY is bad and should feel bad

the best layout would be a mix between iso and ansi (long left shift, big enter)

split spacebar should be more common (I don't own one but would love to have a 60% with one so I could use one as FN)

Caps-lock and backspace should be switched and back space made 1 u adding another key there you can use.

repeating the most popular unpopular opinion. Backligtning in  general sucks, you shouldn't sit in the dark. Get a lamp.

Cherry MX greens and clears are the best MX switches.

A separate numpad is better than an integrated one.


For the average user, there isn't any speed difference.  Unfortunately, I have to work with QWERTY when I'm not at home and on users' computers, so a switch isn't really possible for me unless I want to stumble at less than 30 wpm everywhere for a while.  It's kind of like trying to get the US to switch to metric.

I haven't used a split spacebar, but it sounds nice

Switching caps lock and backspace would be great!  I might actually make a macro to do that on my keyboard. 

I'll continue sitting in the dark like a basement dweller and you can't stop me! :p  Who needs good eyesight anyway?

Well the US really should switch to metric in my opinion, same with the UK. But I can't change that, just like I can't get QWERTY to go away and make my only problem with Dvorak go away (that people use QWERTY lol).

I haven't used a split spacebar but I am 99% sure I could adapt to  using the other half with my right thumb as I currently only use my left thumb for space. Which on a 60% would be bound to FN for me.

The eyesight part is one of the reasons you shouldn't sit in the dark lol.
One set of tools?
Fine measurements in an instant?
Metric please!  :eek:

So you agree? at work it's so annoying when you get one part which for some reason is using UNF instead of metric threading  :mad:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: G33K on Wed, 16 March 2016, 12:32:07
QWERTY is bad and should feel bad

the best layout would be a mix between iso and ansi (long left shift, big enter)

split spacebar should be more common (I don't own one but would love to have a 60% with one so I could use one as FN)

Caps-lock and backspace should be switched and back space made 1 u adding another key there you can use.

repeating the most popular unpopular opinion. Backligtning in  general sucks, you shouldn't sit in the dark. Get a lamp.

Cherry MX greens and clears are the best MX switches.

A separate numpad is better than an integrated one.


For the average user, there isn't any speed difference.  Unfortunately, I have to work with QWERTY when I'm not at home and on users' computers, so a switch isn't really possible for me unless I want to stumble at less than 30 wpm everywhere for a while.  It's kind of like trying to get the US to switch to metric.

I haven't used a split spacebar, but it sounds nice

Switching caps lock and backspace would be great!  I might actually make a macro to do that on my keyboard. 

I'll continue sitting in the dark like a basement dweller and you can't stop me! :p  Who needs good eyesight anyway?

Well the US really should switch to metric in my opinion, same with the UK. But I can't change that, just like I can't get QWERTY to go away and make my only problem with Dvorak go away (that people use QWERTY lol).

I haven't used a split spacebar but I am 99% sure I could adapt to  using the other half with my right thumb as I currently only use my left thumb for space. Which on a 60% would be bound to FN for me.

The eyesight part is one of the reasons you shouldn't sit in the dark lol.

I agree, metric actually makes sense, but least we don't use stone as a measurement.  1 stone = 14 pounds = 6.35029 Kg... what... :-\ 
Kids aren't learning metric in school, so when they're teaching age, they aren't teaching metric. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 16 March 2016, 12:56:48
QWERTY is bad and should feel bad

the best layout would be a mix between iso and ansi (long left shift, big enter)

split spacebar should be more common (I don't own one but would love to have a 60% with one so I could use one as FN)

Caps-lock and backspace should be switched and back space made 1 u adding another key there you can use.

repeating the most popular unpopular opinion. Backligtning in  general sucks, you shouldn't sit in the dark. Get a lamp.

Cherry MX greens and clears are the best MX switches.

A separate numpad is better than an integrated one.


For the average user, there isn't any speed difference.  Unfortunately, I have to work with QWERTY when I'm not at home and on users' computers, so a switch isn't really possible for me unless I want to stumble at less than 30 wpm everywhere for a while.  It's kind of like trying to get the US to switch to metric.

I haven't used a split spacebar, but it sounds nice

Switching caps lock and backspace would be great!  I might actually make a macro to do that on my keyboard. 

I'll continue sitting in the dark like a basement dweller and you can't stop me! :p  Who needs good eyesight anyway?

Well the US really should switch to metric in my opinion, same with the UK. But I can't change that, just like I can't get QWERTY to go away and make my only problem with Dvorak go away (that people use QWERTY lol).

I haven't used a split spacebar but I am 99% sure I could adapt to  using the other half with my right thumb as I currently only use my left thumb for space. Which on a 60% would be bound to FN for me.

The eyesight part is one of the reasons you shouldn't sit in the dark lol.

I agree, metric actually makes sense, but least we don't use stone as a measurement.  1 stone = 14 pounds = 6.35029 Kg... what... :-\ 
Kids aren't learning metric in school, so when they're teaching age, they aren't teaching metric.
I guess the education system has changed. If I remember correctly, my teacher taught the imperial, and metric system. One system right after the other.

QWERTY is bad and should feel bad

the best layout would be a mix between iso and ansi (long left shift, big enter)

split spacebar should be more common (I don't own one but would love to have a 60% with one so I could use one as FN)

Caps-lock and backspace should be switched and back space made 1 u adding another key there you can use.

repeating the most popular unpopular opinion. Backligtning in  general sucks, you shouldn't sit in the dark. Get a lamp.

Cherry MX greens and clears are the best MX switches.

A separate numpad is better than an integrated one.


For the average user, there isn't any speed difference.  Unfortunately, I have to work with QWERTY when I'm not at home and on users' computers, so a switch isn't really possible for me unless I want to stumble at less than 30 wpm everywhere for a while.  It's kind of like trying to get the US to switch to metric.

I haven't used a split spacebar, but it sounds nice

Switching caps lock and backspace would be great!  I might actually make a macro to do that on my keyboard. 

I'll continue sitting in the dark like a basement dweller and you can't stop me! :p  Who needs good eyesight anyway?

Well the US really should switch to metric in my opinion, same with the UK. But I can't change that, just like I can't get QWERTY to go away and make my only problem with Dvorak go away (that people use QWERTY lol).

I haven't used a split spacebar but I am 99% sure I could adapt to  using the other half with my right thumb as I currently only use my left thumb for space. Which on a 60% would be bound to FN for me.

The eyesight part is one of the reasons you shouldn't sit in the dark lol.
One set of tools?
Fine measurements in an instant?
Metric please!  :eek:

So you agree? at work it's so annoying when you get one part which for some reason is using UNF instead of metric threading  :mad:
Yeah, I do agree. UNF? Hmmm, I never thought to ask myself the difference in threading measurement nice  :)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fiery on Wed, 16 March 2016, 12:59:14
QWERTY is bad and should feel bad

the best layout would be a mix between iso and ansi (long left shift, big enter)

split spacebar should be more common (I don't own one but would love to have a 60% with one so I could use one as FN)

Caps-lock and backspace should be switched and back space made 1 u adding another key there you can use.

repeating the most popular unpopular opinion. Backligtning in  general sucks, you shouldn't sit in the dark. Get a lamp.

Cherry MX greens and clears are the best MX switches.

A separate numpad is better than an integrated one.


For the average user, there isn't any speed difference.  Unfortunately, I have to work with QWERTY when I'm not at home and on users' computers, so a switch isn't really possible for me unless I want to stumble at less than 30 wpm everywhere for a while.  It's kind of like trying to get the US to switch to metric.

I haven't used a split spacebar, but it sounds nice

Switching caps lock and backspace would be great!  I might actually make a macro to do that on my keyboard. 

I'll continue sitting in the dark like a basement dweller and you can't stop me! :p  Who needs good eyesight anyway?

Well the US really should switch to metric in my opinion, same with the UK. But I can't change that, just like I can't get QWERTY to go away and make my only problem with Dvorak go away (that people use QWERTY lol).

I haven't used a split spacebar but I am 99% sure I could adapt to  using the other half with my right thumb as I currently only use my left thumb for space. Which on a 60% would be bound to FN for me.

The eyesight part is one of the reasons you shouldn't sit in the dark lol.

I agree, metric actually makes sense, but least we don't use stone as a measurement.  1 stone = 14 pounds = 6.35029 Kg... what... :-\ 
Kids aren't learning metric in school, so when they're teaching age, they aren't teaching metric.
Yup and that's sadly how the world is, and also why QWERTY is still the most used layout :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nephiel on Thu, 17 March 2016, 15:07:42
I haven't used a split spacebar but I am 99% sure I could adapt to  using the other half with my right thumb as I currently only use my left thumb for space. Which on a 60% would be bound to FN for me.
This is exactly how I set up mine, and it took nothing to get used to. It just feels natural.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 17 March 2016, 16:45:18
I haven't used a split spacebar but I am 99% sure I could adapt to  using the other half with my right thumb as I currently only use my left thumb for space. Which on a 60% would be bound to FN for me.
This is exactly how I set up mine, and it took nothing to get used to. It just feels natural.

The space FN concept work as that with no need for an splitted bar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Thu, 17 March 2016, 17:03:29
the best layout would be a mix between iso and ansi (long left shift, big enter)

Caps-lock and backspace should be switched and back space made 1 u adding another key there you can use.
So basically you want JIS, which is IMO very bad, with Colemak Backspace.  How can you say such heresy while having in your avatar the second best girl from her based show with no bad characters in the first place is beyond me.

Back to Unpopular Keyboard Opinions, it always bugs me a little when someone calls Topre "the most expensive rubber dome". Not because I like it(I never tried it so I don't have an opinion), but because that title belongs to the 370$ Mad Catz STRIKE 5 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A0EPNPI)(or some really rare vintage board I have no clue about). By the way, has anyone tried it? Is it as bad as I expect it to be?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: steelcity on Fri, 18 March 2016, 10:39:11
any fullsize board with two windows keys and no context menu key should be brought out back and shot.

backlighting sucks

fullsize > tkl/60

front-print > top-print

windowed capslock/scrlk/numlk > non-windowed

tactile > clicky
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Fri, 18 March 2016, 10:43:29


fullsize > tkl/60



Get outta here
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 18 March 2016, 15:48:17
fullsize > tkl/60
Get outta here
But it's actually correct. Full-size is larger than tenkeyless/60% by definition.

It's still an abomination though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Fri, 18 March 2016, 16:01:38
fullsize > tkl/60
Get outta here
But it's actually correct. Full-size is larger than tenkeyless/60% by definition.

It's still an abomination though.

It's not about the size, it's about how you use it  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 18 March 2016, 16:08:11


fullsize > tkl/60



Get outta here
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 18 March 2016, 18:02:31
I'd have to agree i see little use of a full size in todays world for any reason what so ever.  Don't get me wrong i understand some jobs REQUIRE a numpad...but seperate numpads are far more ergonomic when you aren't using them and you need to use your mousing area at the same time, and save desk space when you don't need said numpad...or can put it on the left side etc...

Fullsize boards at this point just feel like they belong in a museum exhibit, the only one that may get a pass IMO is the model M just because it's so epic and SSK'S are still so expensive.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 18 March 2016, 19:28:58
My Model M isn't as loud as everyone makes it out to be.

I could at least see using it in a busy office setting.

It's still the best sounding clicky switch though, it's only major competition is Blue ALPS.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 18 March 2016, 19:40:41
My Model M isn't as loud as everyone makes it out to be.

I could at least see using it in a busy office setting.

It's still the best sounding clicky switch though, it's only major competition is Blue ALPS.

Model M = Best clicky switch ever IMO

I still prefer Topre Overall but if in an isolated room with nobody around i'd likely switch between Topre and a Model M hourly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Fri, 18 March 2016, 19:59:12
+1 in support of full size. Well...+0.5, let's say. I think it does depend on the user a lot.

There are definitely some real advantages to an attached number pad if you use it. Unlike a separate number pad, an attached number pad stays in exact alignment with your other keys when you reposition your keyboard, which some people do every time they shift position in their chair. There's also less wasted space when the number pad and keyboard are integrated, fewer wires, and fewer ports used. So, if you are a serious number pad user, a full size layout can still make sense.

For me, personally, before I got into mechanical keyboards, I spent many years using laptops without number pads. Basically I came into the game already having plenty of experience with not having a number pad, and knew that if I could possibly get the number pad back, that I wanted it. So I really don't have much interest in things that are smaller than full size. I don't even enter long lists of number that often (though I do have to do so occasionally), but between that, playing older games that benefit from or even require the number pad, and various general keyboarding habits that make use of the number pad for all sorts of random little purposes, I find that I really miss it when it's not there.

Of course, if you don't use it, then you might as well free up the extra space, especially if you are so unfortunate as to be using a mouse rather than a trackball as your primary pointing device. Hence +0.5 for the full-size: if your workflow and/or your habits call for the number pad, then a full-size keyboard is a good option. If they don't, then don't bother.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Fri, 18 March 2016, 20:39:26
+1 in support of full size. Well...+0.5, let's say. I think it does depend on the user a lot.

There are definitely some real advantages to an attached number pad if you use it. Unlike a separate number pad, an attached number pad stays in exact alignment with your other keys when you reposition your keyboard, which some people do every time they shift position in their chair. There's also less wasted space when the number pad and keyboard are integrated, fewer wires, and fewer ports used. So, if you are a serious number pad user, a full size layout can still make sense.

For me, personally, before I got into mechanical keyboards, I spent many years using laptops without number pads. Basically I came into the game already having plenty of experience with not having a number pad, and knew that if I could possibly get the number pad back, that I wanted it. So I really don't have much interest in things that are smaller than full size. I don't even enter long lists of number that often (though I do have to do so occasionally), but between that, playing older games that benefit from or even require the number pad, and various general keyboarding habits that make use of the number pad for all sorts of random little purposes, I find that I really miss it when it's not there.

Of course, if you don't use it, then you might as well free up the extra space, especially if you are so unfortunate as to be using a mouse rather than a trackball as your primary pointing device. Hence +0.5 for the full-size: if your workflow and/or your habits call for the number pad, then a full-size keyboard is a good option. If they don't, then don't bother.

I didn't want to go from full-size to 60% at home but have pretty much converted, although I wouldn't be against a TKL or other slightly larger sized board.  At work though, since I work at a tax and accounting firm, I have to have a numpad of some kind and I've gotten used to the numpad being attached for many of the reasons you mentioned.  I wouldn't be against splitting them, but that's just another USB port that would be taken up when I can just as well just a full-size keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 18 March 2016, 20:55:14
My Model M isn't as loud as everyone makes it out to be.

I could at least see using it in a busy office setting.

It's still the best sounding clicky switch though, it's only major competition is Blue ALPS.

Model M = Best clicky switch ever IMO

I still prefer Topre Overall but if in an isolated room with nobody around i'd likely switch between Topre and a Model M hourly.



I agree, buckling springs are the best clicky switch, unless someone really doesn't like the weight. My worn in MX Blues are still somewhat smoother though.

I have heard the Buckling Springs on the Model F are better. Namely they are lighter and smoother, not to mention they are capacitive so you get NRKO.







Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 18 March 2016, 23:32:09
All Cherry switches are crap

No one should pay more for an alternative to fullsize

artisans should not be taken seriously and should be worth 3$ a key

critique inc  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Floody on Fri, 18 March 2016, 23:34:45
Topre isn't a mechanical keyboard switch and has no business on this forum.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 18 March 2016, 23:39:42
All Cherry switches are crap

No one should pay more for an alternative to fullsize

artisans should not be taken seriously and should be worth 3$ a key

critique inc  :rolleyes:

I have to agree, but I would pay $5 to replace the caps lock key on my Model M with a picture of Billy Mays face.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 18 March 2016, 23:56:36
Maybe if Billy Mays was double shot into the cap  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: steelcity on Sat, 19 March 2016, 00:31:31
Best value for the $ - Leopold FC900 ($119 at MK)

solid board, full size, cherry mx, AWESOME navy pbt caps with windowed locks, has the context menu key instead of two lame windows switches...all for the less than the price of some pbt keycap sets!

I have 4 of them and I have 330 each of the 65G and 67G zealio switches coming.  I'm going to build one board with each to decide which switch i like best, then build out the other 2 with that weight.  then i will (hopefully) have 3 end game boards for my 3 computers!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: -musubi on Sat, 19 March 2016, 01:13:25
Topre isn't a mechanical keyboard switch and has no business on this forum.
Savageeeeee. But yes that is the truth
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 19 March 2016, 01:29:19
MX blues and most Cherry switches are incredibly wimpy sounding against almost any other type.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venatorious on Sat, 19 March 2016, 01:32:03
A shame there aren't more alps caps.  The keycap options I have are very boring compared to Cherry mx.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sat, 19 March 2016, 14:25:27
A shame there aren't more alps caps.  The keycap options I have are very boring compared to Cherry mx.

I agree in a way, but in another it's kinda cool. Like Topre, it makes the caps you do get very special.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 19 March 2016, 17:18:31
how is it possible to be productive with a 40%
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Sat, 19 March 2016, 17:22:19
A shame there aren't more alps caps.  The keycap options I have are very boring compared to Cherry mx.

I agree in a way, but in another it's kinda cool. Like Topre, it makes the caps you do get very special.

Yeah in a way it "lowers" the standards, as even a basic high quality ANSI set can be tough to track down
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Sat, 19 March 2016, 17:24:10
how is it possible to be productive with a 40%
It just is

Once you use one for a bit, you can get pretty efficient with them. Especially when you tweak your layout to suit your needs best
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dtaflorida on Sun, 20 March 2016, 06:48:17
DIY does not mean good quality. I've seen posts where some DIYer will always toss in the "can't be sure about the quality of xxx board, if you want quality you need to DIY". For a hobby that relies on so many prefabricated parts, DIY quality is pretty much non-existent. It comes down to the quality of the parts they buy, and they're not going to get economies of scale, so an equivalently priced manufactured board will be better quality.

Here's some DIY quality for ya  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Sun, 20 March 2016, 07:55:36
DIY does not mean good quality. I've seen posts where some DIYer will always toss in the "can't be sure about the quality of xxx board, if you want quality you need to DIY". For a hobby that relies on so many prefabricated parts, DIY quality is pretty much non-existent. It comes down to the quality of the parts they buy, and they're not going to get economies of scale, so an equivalently priced manufactured board will be better quality.

Here's some DIY quality for ya  :))

Depends a lot on the person that is responsible for the DIY, as someone working on their 1st keyboard is obviously going to put out inferior work if compared to someone working on their 20th keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Sun, 20 March 2016, 09:56:41
DIY does not mean good quality.

Agree with this.

I would never pay more than $5 for a keyboard with the quality of something I built, lol. You think the PCBs in super cheap Chinese keyboards are grim? You should see what happens when I pick up a soldering iron...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: climbalima on Sun, 20 March 2016, 11:52:29
DIY does not mean good quality.

Agree with this.

I would never pay more than $5 for a keyboard with the quality of something I built, lol. You think the PCBs in super cheap Chinese keyboards are grim? You should see what happens when I pick up a soldering iron...
Same here. I also don't see the point of this hobby when you aren't making boards yourself though. My boards may be crap, but they are still mine!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sun, 20 March 2016, 11:58:12
Topre isn't a mechanical keyboard switch and has no business on this forum.
buddy this forum is for "keyboard enthusiasts"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Sun, 20 March 2016, 12:21:22
Topre isn't a mechanical keyboard switch and has no business on this forum.
buddy this forum is for "keyboard enthusiasts"

Indeed, and whether it's considered mechanical or not since the definition doesn't seem to be iron clad.  It still feels better IMO (unless you prefer linear of course) than any Matias,Cherry,Alps switch i have tried and i would say almost on par with my like of buckling springs (Which i'd use more often if my wife didn't loathe the noise).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dtaflorida on Thu, 24 March 2016, 10:56:24
Expensive != quality.
This one is fairly obvious, but recently I got tag-teamed by some keyboard elitist in a forum, so on top of that I'll add that references to Eiiti Wada(creator of HHKB) do not constitute sufficient evidence to support purchasing an expensive keyboard (Especially since HHKB is not useful for gaming nor productivity).

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 24 March 2016, 10:59:03
Expensive != quality.
This one is fairly obvious, but recently I got tag-teamed by some keyboard elitist in a forum, so on top of that I'll add that references to Eiiti Wada(creator of HHKB) do not constitute sufficient evidence to support purchasing an expensive keyboard (Especially since HHKB is not useful for gaming nor productivity).

I agree with the first line, but I don't think the HHKB is not useful for gaming or productivity. The former definitely varies from person to person, but the latter, well, how does any keyboard affect your productivity?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 24 March 2016, 11:12:23
Expensive != quality.
This one is fairly obvious, but recently I got tag-teamed by some keyboard elitist in a forum, so on top of that I'll add that references to Eiiti Wada(creator of HHKB) do not constitute sufficient evidence to support purchasing an expensive keyboard (Especially since HHKB is not useful for gaming nor productivity).

The HHKB was actually just a fork of Sun keyboards of the date. The only part of the board that was actually designed was its second layer, that it is not the best around.

(http://i.imgur.com/Hke5oUu.jpg)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Thu, 24 March 2016, 11:31:18
well, how does any keyboard affect your productivity?

Well, some of them allow me to continue being productive, while others cause pain in my wrists. Certainly does not apply to everybody, but changing keyboards did allow me to continue being productive, and even improve a little. From my next change, I expect similar results.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dtaflorida on Thu, 24 March 2016, 11:49:23
how does any keyboard affect your productivity?

Most don't, but most keyboards have access to all modifier keys as an actual key. As an SAP developer, I would have to be a finger contortionist to use an HHKB (which immediately eliminates the ergonomic argument). There are a lot of modifier+modifier+fkey combinations.

So an HHKB would over time both cause physiological damage as well as loss in productivity, at a very high monetary cost.

So of course this is an unpopular opinion. To me it looks like Rube Goldberg machine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 24 March 2016, 14:56:03
Topre switches are mechanical. Take away the switch, and you'll have a non-mechanical keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 24 March 2016, 15:00:03
Topre switches belong on this forum, even Rubber Domes have a home here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Thu, 24 March 2016, 15:33:09
well, how does any keyboard affect your productivity?
while others cause pain in my wrists.

Man some people are delicate
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Thu, 24 March 2016, 18:02:04
Expensive != quality.
This one is fairly obvious, but recently I got tag-teamed by some keyboard elitist in a forum, so on top of that I'll add that references to Eiiti Wada(creator of HHKB) do not constitute sufficient evidence to support purchasing an expensive keyboard (Especially since HHKB is not useful for gaming nor productivity).

I agree with the first line, but I don't think the HHKB is not useful for gaming or productivity. The former definitely varies from person to person, but the latter, well, how does any keyboard affect your productivity?

i'll admit i have my quirks with the hhkb layout but i have not had any issues while gaming to be honest personally.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Thu, 24 March 2016, 18:09:21
how does any keyboard affect your productivity?

Most don't, but most keyboards have access to all modifier keys as an actual key. As an SAP developer, I would have to be a finger contortionist to use an HHKB (which immediately eliminates the ergonomic argument). There are a lot of modifier+modifier+fkey combinations.

So an HHKB would over time both cause physiological damage as well as loss in productivity, at a very high monetary cost.

So of course this is an unpopular opinion. To me it looks like Rube Goldberg machine.

I found an HHKB Lite at Goodwill once (the non-Topre version). I took it off the shelf, looked at it for a few seconds, then concluded that it was dumb and put it back on the shelf. So you're not entirely alone...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:53:16
how does any keyboard affect your productivity?

Most don't, but most keyboards have access to all modifier keys as an actual key. As an SAP developer, I would have to be a finger contortionist to use an HHKB (which immediately eliminates the ergonomic argument). There are a lot of modifier+modifier+fkey combinations.

So an HHKB would over time both cause physiological damage as well as loss in productivity, at a very high monetary cost.

So of course this is an unpopular opinion. To me it looks like Rube Goldberg machine.

I found an HHKB Lite at Goodwill once (the non-Topre version). I took it off the shelf, looked at it for a few seconds, then concluded that it was dumb and put it back on the shelf. So you're not entirely alone...
Did you sniff the keyboard? I would have sniffed the keyboard before making a decision.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 25 March 2016, 23:20:32
Turns out white alps pine are better than blue alps.  No joke, my Acer 6011 has these switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dtaflorida on Sat, 26 March 2016, 01:26:59
Did you sniff the keyboard? I would have sniffed the keyboard before making a decision.

And if you get high off it then it's a keeper! I know I'd have to be high on something to have bought one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 26 March 2016, 01:40:57
Did you sniff the keyboard? I would have sniffed the keyboard before making a decision.

And if you get high off it then it's a keeper! I know I'd have to be high on something to have bought one.
I sniff everything I buy from thrift shops. If I bring home something that smells like smoke--RIP my sinuses.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 26 March 2016, 03:40:26
Turns out white alps pine are better than blue alps.  No joke, my Acer 6011 has these switches.

Is it possible the blue alps you tried were in nasty condition compared to the whites?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 26 March 2016, 06:16:45
Turns out white alps pine are better than blue alps.  No joke, my Acer 6011 has these switches.

Is it possible the blue alps you tried were in nasty condition compared to the whites?
I think he just likes a heavier switches and more tactile switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 26 March 2016, 08:02:37
Probably gonna get hate for saying this, but I think Topre is not durable at all. I've replaced two HHKB's because the rubber "dried out" / "became hard" within 2 years of use, being main drivers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 26 March 2016, 08:59:41
Probably gonna get hate for saying this, but I think Topre is not durable at all. I've replaced two HHKB's because the rubber "dried out" / "became hard" within 2 years of use, being main drivers.
But I though that u guys like heavier switches  :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Sat, 26 March 2016, 09:01:39
Probably gonna get hate for saying this, but I think Topre is not durable at all. I've replaced two HHKB's because the rubber "dried out" / "became hard" within 2 years of use, being main drivers.

Environmental factors and usage patterns can play a significant role in this. The domes are rubber, after all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 26 March 2016, 09:32:14
Probably gonna get hate for saying this, but I think Topre is not durable at all. I've replaced two HHKB's because the rubber "dried out" / "became hard" within 2 years of use, being main drivers.


This does not come as a surprise, rubber is rubber, no matter how hyped it was.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 26 March 2016, 10:09:41
Probably gonna get hate for saying this, but I think Topre is not durable at all. I've replaced two HHKB's because the rubber "dried out" / "became hard" within 2 years of use, being main drivers.

Environmental factors and usage patterns can play a significant role in this. The domes are rubber, after all.

Yeah, other than for the looks, I don't think these keyboards are actually useful in 10-15 years from know.

I guess Cherry (and the Zealios etc.) are more durable over time. Except for corrosion perhaps, but I have not seen that happen so far.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Sat, 26 March 2016, 11:14:07
We don't know if Gaterons are more reliable than genuine Cherry MX - and since they produce the Zealios, they will fall under that general statement.

The general impression given is they are unable to adhere to the same strict tolerances in their manufacturing process - this makes sense, as ultimately the Gateron specific switches are an attempt to provide a cheaper product alternative. It does seem that their community engagement and willingness to make tweaked products (Zealios!) sets them above their peers (Kailh, Greetech, etc).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 26 March 2016, 11:36:02
We don't know if Gaterons are more reliable than genuine Cherry MX - and since they produce the Zealios, they will fall under that general statement.

The general impression given is they are unable to adhere to the same strict tolerances in their manufacturing process - this makes sense, as ultimately the Gateron specific switches are an attempt to provide a cheaper product alternative. It does seem that their community engagement and willingness to make tweaked products (Zealios!) sets them above their peers (Kailh, Greetech, etc).

An assumption behind your argument, that is not necessarily true, is that lower cost equals lower quality, which in contemporary manufacturing systems is just not true.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Sat, 26 March 2016, 11:50:06
We don't know if Gaterons are more reliable than genuine Cherry MX - and since they produce the Zealios, they will fall under that general statement.

The general impression given is they are unable to adhere to the same strict tolerances in their manufacturing process - this makes sense, as ultimately the Gateron specific switches are an attempt to provide a cheaper product alternative. It does seem that their community engagement and willingness to make tweaked products (Zealios!) sets them above their peers (Kailh, Greetech, etc).

An assumption behind your argument, that is not necessarily true, is that lower cost equals lower quality, which in contemporary manufacturing systems is just not true.

Especially now that Cherry switches are 20+ years old, I can't imagine that making a cheaper alternative would be that hard to do while maintaining or even surpassing the quality of the original.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FlukeNukem on Sat, 26 March 2016, 14:36:52
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Also the tilde key is a pointless waste of keyboard real estate and the backspace should be where the backslash is on an ANSI keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 26 March 2016, 14:41:08
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Also the tilde key is a pointless waste of keyboard real estate and the backspace should be where the backslash is on an ANSI keyboard.

This belongs to a thread on personal preferences.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FlukeNukem on Sat, 26 March 2016, 14:54:07


This belongs to a thread on personal preferences.

Like this exact thread? :D  All opinions (be they unpopular or not) are personal feelings or preferences.  That's what differentiates them from fact.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vittra on Sat, 26 March 2016, 15:14:26
We don't know if Gaterons are more reliable than genuine Cherry MX - and since they produce the Zealios, they will fall under that general statement.

The general impression given is they are unable to adhere to the same strict tolerances in their manufacturing process - this makes sense, as ultimately the Gateron specific switches are an attempt to provide a cheaper product alternative. It does seem that their community engagement and willingness to make tweaked products (Zealios!) sets them above their peers (Kailh, Greetech, etc).

An assumption behind your argument, that is not necessarily true, is that lower cost equals lower quality, which in contemporary manufacturing systems is just not true.

Especially now that Cherry switches are 20+ years old, I can't imagine that making a cheaper alternative would be that hard to do while maintaining or even surpassing the quality of the original.

There are certainly cases which lead credence to what both of you are indicating, however, with respect to Gateron, we know of switch chatter and switch wobble both being issues.

When specifically referring to Zealios, measures have been taken to reduce chatter, but Zeal has mentioned that convincing Gateron on tighter tolerances is still a a challenge to be overcome for R3.

This still does not address general reliability over a long period of time. If anyone has seen published figures with respect to MTBF or even before "out of spec" figures along with supporting evidence on how these figures were achieved, I'll gladly read them.

Regardless of how my cautious attitude above may be perceived, I do believe it a good thing clones may have the potential to force Cherry's hand, lest an option like Gateron continue to improve to the point of clearly asserting itself superiour.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Malenky on Sat, 26 March 2016, 15:30:49
May be unpopular but I'm willing to bet that at least a few people feel the same as me here:

I prefer plastic cases to aluminium. I own two POK3Rs and have swapped the cases on both for cheap plastic ones. I can just feel it in my fingers, the aluminium is just too harsh, whereas the plastic has the slightest bit of extra cushioning.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 26 March 2016, 17:30:47
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Also the tilde key is a pointless waste of keyboard real estate and the backspace should be where the backslash is on an ANSI keyboard.
Tilde key is what is used to open the developers console in 90% of games :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 26 March 2016, 17:34:51
Tilde is also far easier to use when you're talking about approximates than typing it roughly or approximately.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FlukeNukem on Sat, 26 March 2016, 18:16:15
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Also the tilde key is a pointless waste of keyboard real estate and the backspace should be where the backslash is on an ANSI keyboard.
Tilde key is what is used to open the developers console in 90% of games :P

You cheater!  :)) jk fair point.  I was trying to think of what you would use the tilde for and I guess I was just thinking about the fact that you can't actually use the tilde key to put a diacritical tilde over a character.

Tilde is also far easier to use when you're talking about approximates than typing it roughly or approximately.

I always abbreviate it approx for values and ca for dates.  I just don't trust that the person will know that's what a tilde preceding a number means, or that with they're font and resolution it won't look like a minus.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sat, 26 March 2016, 18:20:49
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Also the tilde key is a pointless waste of keyboard real estate and the backspace should be where the backslash is on an ANSI keyboard.

It is a great button due to how useless it is. I disable capslock through windows and use it to bind my push to talk for my teamspeak. Easy to reach and perfect placement for fast communication.

how is tilde useless? it is used in so many programming languages. I do agree about the backspace It is used so often I don't know why they made it so far.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Sat, 26 March 2016, 20:07:42
May be unpopular but I'm willing to bet that at least a few people feel the same as me here:

I prefer plastic cases to aluminium. I own two POK3Rs and have swapped the cases on both for cheap plastic ones. I can just feel it in my fingers, the aluminium is just too harsh, whereas the plastic has the slightest bit of extra cushioning.

I also prefer plastic over aluminum. Particularly in the plate, I much prefer an acrylic plate or no plate at all over hard, metal plates.

It is a great button due to how useless it is. I disable capslock through windows and use it to bind my push to talk for my teamspeak. Easy to reach and perfect placement for fast communication.

how is tilde useless? it is used in so many programming languages. I do agree about the backspace It is used so often I don't know why they made it so far.

Most of the layouts we use today were adapted from typewriters. Backspace was not used nearly as often on typewriters. In fact, you only got a limited number of presses before the correction tape would have to be replaced. Though I do agree, it's not in a very convenient place for modern computer keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nephiel on Sun, 27 March 2016, 04:13:40
Caps Lock is very useful for coding - const names and such. And the tilde is shorthand for the home folder on pretty much any GNU/Linux variant.

As for cases, while I really like the looks of the fancy aluminium ones, I tend to prefer plastic for its portability since it's lighter.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 27 March 2016, 07:21:29
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Also the tilde key is a pointless waste of keyboard real estate and the backspace should be where the backslash is on an ANSI keyboard.

Caps lock is useless. I always swap caps for control. But the tilde? I use it daily in terminal and vim.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 27 March 2016, 07:25:00
We don't know if Gaterons are more reliable than genuine Cherry MX - and since they produce the Zealios, they will fall under that general statement.

The general impression given is they are unable to adhere to the same strict tolerances in their manufacturing process - this makes sense, as ultimately the Gateron specific switches are an attempt to provide a cheaper product alternative. It does seem that their community engagement and willingness to make tweaked products (Zealios!) sets them above their peers (Kailh, Greetech, etc).

An assumption behind your argument, that is not necessarily true, is that lower cost equals lower quality, which in contemporary manufacturing systems is just not true.

Especially now that Cherry switches are 20+ years old, I can't imagine that making a cheaper alternative would be that hard to do while maintaining or even surpassing the quality of the original.

There are certainly cases which lead credence to what both of you are indicating, however, with respect to Gateron, we know of switch chatter and switch wobble both being issues.

When specifically referring to Zealios, measures have been taken to reduce chatter, but Zeal has mentioned that convincing Gateron on tighter tolerances is still a a challenge to be overcome for R3.

This still does not address general reliability over a long period of time. If anyone has seen published figures with respect to MTBF or even before "out of spec" figures along with supporting evidence on how these figures were achieved, I'll gladly read them.

Regardless of how my cautious attitude above may be perceived, I do believe it a good thing clones may have the potential to force Cherry's hand, lest an option like Gateron continue to improve to the point of clearly asserting itself superiour.

Regards MTBF, I think those figures are **** and worthless given that testing circumstances are very VERY fake. I guess they test it by pressing a key 50000 times or more and then say: this should last up to 50000 strokes. But they do that within a period of... hours? But this is completely different from those 50000 strokes over a period of, let's say, 10 years: what about humidity, corrosion, actual force exerted by human hands, heat, etc. It is almost impossible to establish real world testing scenarios for this. There should be empirical research averaging how people use their keyboards over longer periods of time and then developing artificial testing conditions to mimic real world and then establish an accurate MTBF.

But of course, I'm ignorant. Manufacturers just want the highest number they can put on the package to increase sell sell sell, like with DPI for a mouse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 27 March 2016, 08:26:12
We don't know if Gaterons are more reliable than genuine Cherry MX - and since they produce the Zealios, they will fall under that general statement.

The general impression given is they are unable to adhere to the same strict tolerances in their manufacturing process - this makes sense, as ultimately the Gateron specific switches are an attempt to provide a cheaper product alternative. It does seem that their community engagement and willingness to make tweaked products (Zealios!) sets them above their peers (Kailh, Greetech, etc).

An assumption behind your argument, that is not necessarily true, is that lower cost equals lower quality, which in contemporary manufacturing systems is just not true.

Especially now that Cherry switches are 20+ years old, I can't imagine that making a cheaper alternative would be that hard to do while maintaining or even surpassing the quality of the original.

There are certainly cases which lead credence to what both of you are indicating, however, with respect to Gateron, we know of switch chatter and switch wobble both being issues.

When specifically referring to Zealios, measures have been taken to reduce chatter, but Zeal has mentioned that convincing Gateron on tighter tolerances is still a a challenge to be overcome for R3.

This still does not address general reliability over a long period of time. If anyone has seen published figures with respect to MTBF or even before "out of spec" figures along with supporting evidence on how these figures were achieved, I'll gladly read them.

Regardless of how my cautious attitude above may be perceived, I do believe it a good thing clones may have the potential to force Cherry's hand, lest an option like Gateron continue to improve to the point of clearly asserting itself superiour.

Regards MTBF, I think those figures are **** and worthless given that testing circumstances are very VERY fake. I guess they test it by pressing a key 50000 times or more and then say: this should last up to 50000 strokes. But they do that within a period of... hours? But this is completely different from those 50000 strokes over a period of, let's say, 10 years: what about humidity, corrosion, actual force exerted by human hands, heat, etc. It is almost impossible to establish real world testing scenarios for this. There should be empirical research averaging how people use their keyboards over longer periods of time and then developing artificial testing conditions to mimic real world and then establish an accurate MTBF.

But of course, I'm ignorant. Manufacturers just want the highest number they can put on the package to increase sell sell sell, like with DPI for a mouse.
Hey! Some of use high DPI.. idk about 14-20k DPI though, that might be a tad excessive.

If they really want to test the equipment, the manufactures should strap the keyboard to a vibration plate. Then do the keystroke test. Maybe even toss in a mister. Something similar to the shake down of a commercial airplane would work.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Sun, 27 March 2016, 11:20:00
Hey! Some of use high DPI.. idk about 14-20k DPI though, that might be a tad excessive.

Anything over 6400 means either you have a 4K/eyefinity/etc. screen or are stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 27 March 2016, 11:35:29

Hey! Some of use high DPI.. idk about 14-20k DPI though, that might be a tad excessive.

If they really want to test the equipment, the manufactures should strap the keyboard to a vibration plate. Then do the keystroke test. Maybe even toss in a mister. Something similar to the shake down of a commercial airplane would work.

What exactly do you use super high DPI on a mouse for?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 27 March 2016, 13:12:58

Hey! Some of use high DPI.. idk about 14-20k DPI though, that might be a tad excessive.

If they really want to test the equipment, the manufactures should strap the keyboard to a vibration plate. Then do the keystroke test. Maybe even toss in a mister. Something similar to the shake down of a commercial airplane would work.

What exactly do you use super high DPI on a mouse for?

There's a thread on this.. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56255.msg1921882#msg1921882 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56255.msg1921882#msg1921882)

Anyway.. I never go beyond 1600 or so (with my Avior 7000). I have a 27" 2560x1440 and my 15" 1680x1050 laptop screen so I really want to move quickly across both screens, for which I want a somewhat higher DPI. But beyond let's say 2000-2400 I wouldn't know what you would need the DPI for.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 27 March 2016, 17:59:55
kishsaver is ugly as ****
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 27 March 2016, 18:15:11
kishsaver is ugly as ****

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Sun, 27 March 2016, 18:51:53
kishsaver is ugly as ****

+1

Bezels looks terrible to me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Sun, 27 March 2016, 21:28:07
Split keyboards are for chumps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: itzmeluigi on Sun, 27 March 2016, 22:18:00
kishsaver is ugly as ****

I 100% agree  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 27 March 2016, 22:32:31
Hey! Some of use high DPI.. idk about 14-20k DPI though, that might be a tad excessive.

Anything over 6400 means either you have a 4K/eyefinity/etc. screen or are stupid.
I guess I am stupid. I max out the DPI on my mouse (7,200 dpi) because my wrists don't like to move sideways anymore. I use my fingers to control the mouse, much like people do with a trackball.  :))


Hey! Some of use high DPI.. idk about 14-20k DPI though, that might be a tad excessive.

If they really want to test the equipment, the manufactures should strap the keyboard to a vibration plate. Then do the keystroke test. Maybe even toss in a mister. Something similar to the shake down of a commercial airplane would work.

What exactly do you use super high DPI on a mouse for?
See above  :)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 27 March 2016, 22:41:54
kishsaver is ugly as ****

I 100% agree  :thumb:
I like it :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 28 March 2016, 02:45:32
Hey! Some of use high DPI.. idk about 14-20k DPI though, that might be a tad excessive.

Anything over 6400 means either you have a 4K/eyefinity/etc. screen or are stupid.
I guess I am stupid. I max out the DPI on my mouse (7,200 dpi) because my wrists don't like to move sideways anymore. I use my fingers to control the mouse, much like people do with a trackball.  :))


Hey! Some of use high DPI.. idk about 14-20k DPI though, that might be a tad excessive.

If they really want to test the equipment, the manufactures should strap the keyboard to a vibration plate. Then do the keystroke test. Maybe even toss in a mister. Something similar to the shake down of a commercial airplane would work.

What exactly do you use super high DPI on a mouse for?
See above  :)

Uh, in which case, yes, you need a trackball and not a mouse :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 28 March 2016, 02:55:36
Hey! Some of use high DPI.. idk about 14-20k DPI though, that might be a tad excessive.

Anything over 6400 means either you have a 4K/eyefinity/etc. screen or are stupid.
I guess I am stupid. I max out the DPI on my mouse (7,200 dpi) because my wrists don't like to move sideways anymore. I use my fingers to control the mouse, much like people do with a trackball.  :))


Hey! Some of use high DPI.. idk about 14-20k DPI though, that might be a tad excessive.

If they really want to test the equipment, the manufactures should strap the keyboard to a vibration plate. Then do the keystroke test. Maybe even toss in a mister. Something similar to the shake down of a commercial airplane would work.

What exactly do you use super high DPI on a mouse for?
See above  :)

Uh, in which case, yes, you need a trackball and not a mouse :D
One day I will find a L-tracX.  :eek:

On one hand I feel that spacebars take up too much space, on the other hand I'm not sure I would be comfortable with a tiny spacebar. I want to like the Planck and the Ergodox but I think I would miss that normal sized spacebar  :-\
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 29 March 2016, 00:35:51
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Also the tilde key is a pointless waste of keyboard real estate and the backspace should be where the backslash is on an ANSI keyboard.

Going to disagree here.  The caps lock can be placed somewhere remote but should not be removed.  It becomes tremendously useful when in game threads on /r/hockey where the rule for playoffs game threads is: OT = all caps, 2OT = bold caps, 3OT = bold italic caps.  Loads of fun when you get into those situations (provided you aren't a fan of one of the teams involved, that is).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Myk! on Tue, 29 March 2016, 00:48:07
Im using a Rantopad MXX
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80878.0
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Tue, 29 March 2016, 06:15:25
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Also the tilde key is a pointless waste of keyboard real estate and the backspace should be where the backslash is on an ANSI keyboard.

Going to disagree here.  The caps lock can be placed somewhere remote but should not be removed.  It becomes tremendously useful when in game threads on /r/hockey where the rule for playoffs game threads is: OT = all caps, 2OT = bold caps, 3OT = bold italic caps.  Loads of fun when you get into those situations (provided you aren't a fan of one of the teams involved, that is).

Agreed, although it could definitely just be put on another layer for specific cases like that. I sometimes use capslock for entering drawing designations (IE F1, F2, T1, T2, etc) and while I COULD use shift, capslock is just a touch faster.

Also for unpopular opinions: Universal plates look gross, and iso users are degenerates.

LeandreN please don't spit in my package :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Tue, 29 March 2016, 14:22:32
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Going to disagree here.  The caps lock can be placed somewhere remote but should not be removed.  It becomes tremendously useful when in game threads on /r/hockey where the rule for playoffs game threads is: OT = all caps, 2OT = bold caps, 3OT = bold italic caps.  Loads of fun when you get into those situations (provided you aren't a fan of one of the teams involved, that is).

And I'm going to disagree with you: pressing shift twice to toggle caps is a much better way than capslock. May need firmware or OS support, but hey. Neither is particularly hard to come by.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Tue, 29 March 2016, 16:32:11
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Also the tilde key is a pointless waste of keyboard real estate and the backspace should be where the backslash is on an ANSI keyboard.

Have you considered the possibility of using caps in sequences that involve numbers and characters? I often use programming tags that are alpha-numeric and have to be case-correct (and are largely all-caps).

I know it isn't useful to you, but it does have a use. I'd be fine with it being buried under a function key or something, but don't pretend that it has no purpose just because you have no purpose for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Wed, 30 March 2016, 01:20:57
I think I like the texture of pbt caps more than my gmk caps but nothing beats the aesthetics of gmk caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 30 March 2016, 06:10:33
I think I like the texture of pbt caps more than my gmk caps but nothing beats the aesthetics of gmk caps.
Agreed my friend  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 30 March 2016, 14:11:53
We don't know if Gaterons are more reliable than genuine Cherry MX - and since they produce the Zealios, they will fall under that general statement.

The general impression given is they are unable to adhere to the same strict tolerances in their manufacturing process - this makes sense, as ultimately the Gateron specific switches are an attempt to provide a cheaper product alternative. It does seem that their community engagement and willingness to make tweaked products (Zealios!) sets them above their peers (Kailh, Greetech, etc).

An assumption behind your argument, that is not necessarily true, is that lower cost equals lower quality, which in contemporary manufacturing systems is just not true.

Especially now that Cherry switches are 20+ years old, I can't imagine that making a cheaper alternative would be that hard to do while maintaining or even surpassing the quality of the original.

There are certainly cases which lead credence to what both of you are indicating, however, with respect to Gateron, we know of switch chatter and switch wobble both being issues.

When specifically referring to Zealios, measures have been taken to reduce chatter, but Zeal has mentioned that convincing Gateron on tighter tolerances is still a a challenge to be overcome for R3.

This still does not address general reliability over a long period of time. If anyone has seen published figures with respect to MTBF or even before "out of spec" figures along with supporting evidence on how these figures were achieved, I'll gladly read them.

Regardless of how my cautious attitude above may be perceived, I do believe it a good thing clones may have the potential to force Cherry's hand, lest an option like Gateron continue to improve to the point of clearly asserting itself superiour.

The only fix I've found that actually works for Gateron chatter is raising the bounce time in the windows registy.  It always seems to be the spacebar too.  The spacebar lengthand switch wobble may have somehting to do with it.  I'm gonna swap the switch with a cherry mx next time. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rad on Wed, 30 March 2016, 14:57:08
You shouldn't gut HHKBs and put other switches like Novatouch in them. If you do that, you can't rightfully say your HHKB is an HHKB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 30 March 2016, 16:07:25
You shouldn't gut HHKBs and put other switches like Novatouch in them. If you do that, you can't rightfully say your HHKB is an HHKB.

Couldn't have said it better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 30 March 2016, 16:12:33
I think I like the texture of pbt caps more than my gmk caps but nothing beats the aesthetics of gmk caps.

How's this.  I don't mind mixing and matching GMK ABS  modifiers with thick PBT alphas.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 30 March 2016, 17:30:35
The caps lock key shouldn't exist.  It doesn't need to be relocated to where the control or backspace is, it needs to be nuked from space and all mention of its former existence stricken from public record.  If you are typing enough sequential uppercase characters that you can't comfortably hold down shift to do it, than you're probably typing like an *******.  Don't type like an *******.

Going to disagree here.  The caps lock can be placed somewhere remote but should not be removed.  It becomes tremendously useful when in game threads on /r/hockey where the rule for playoffs game threads is: OT = all caps, 2OT = bold caps, 3OT = bold italic caps.  Loads of fun when you get into those situations (provided you aren't a fan of one of the teams involved, that is).

And I'm going to disagree with you: pressing shift twice to toggle caps is a much better way than capslock. May need firmware or OS support, but hey. Neither is particularly hard to come by.

Perhaps, but as a guy that prefers dedicated keys to key combinations, it could work but wouldn't be my preference. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 30 March 2016, 19:36:41
I think I like the texture of pbt caps more than my gmk caps but nothing beats the aesthetics of gmk caps.

How's this.  I don't mind mixing and matching GMK ABS  modifiers with thick PBT alphas.


A PBT space bar with OG Cherry and GMK modifiers:

(http://i.imgur.com/NFQJgEn.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Mon, 04 April 2016, 01:37:09
I kinda like ABS shine. Not super shiny where it's glossy, but I think it looks nice when the caps have a bit of wear on them, makes them look kinda cool. As long as they don't feel oily, I'm fine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dtaflorida on Mon, 04 April 2016, 09:47:28
I frequent mechanical keyboard threads on tech sites mainly because I enjoy watching ppl with expensive DIY keyboards report back that something on their keyboard has gone wrong.

Great laughs considering the cost was 2x+ of any keyboard I own.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/52-mechanical-keyboard-club/?do=findComment&comment=7506685

This guy spends $800 on custom keyboards. Lol can't wait to hear about something going wrong with them.
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/52-mechanical-keyboard-club/?do=findComment&comment=7535921

It's all fun and games if it's just a hobby, but when they start to brag and recommend ridiculous crap to ppl that want a keyboard for it's functionality, not for the 'fun' of maintaining it, then it grows the fun I have laughing at them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 04 April 2016, 10:18:22
I frequent mechanical keyboard threads on tech sites mainly because I enjoy watching ppl with expensive DIY keyboards report back that something on their keyboard has gone wrong.

Great laughs considering the cost was 2x+ of any keyboard I own.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/52-mechanical-keyboard-club/?do=findComment&comment=7506685

This guy spends $800 on custom keyboards. Lol can't wait to hear about something going wrong with them.
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/52-mechanical-keyboard-club/?do=findComment&comment=7535921

It's all fun and games if it's just a hobby, but when they start to brag and recommend ridiculous crap to ppl that want a keyboard for it's functionality, not for the 'fun' of maintaining it, then it grows the fun I have laughing at them.
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 04 April 2016, 18:22:41
I frequent mechanical keyboard threads on tech sites mainly because I enjoy watching ppl with expensive DIY keyboards report back that something on their keyboard has gone wrong.

Great laughs considering the cost was 2x+ of any keyboard I own.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/52-mechanical-keyboard-club/?do=findComment&comment=7506685

This guy spends $800 on custom keyboards. Lol can't wait to hear about something going wrong with them.
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/52-mechanical-keyboard-club/?do=findComment&comment=7535921

It's all fun and games if it's just a hobby, but when they start to brag and recommend ridiculous crap to ppl that want a keyboard for it's functionality, not for the 'fun' of maintaining it, then it grows the fun I have laughing at them.

Well, that's most certainly an unpopular keyboard opinion around here, I can tell you that. :thumb:

But I can image people wanting to build their perfect board. Like with perfect PC builds or the perfect office or whatever. I can understand people investing a lot of money into what they dream of will be there perfect masterrace 9000 keyboard.
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 04 April 2016, 18:28:39
I frequent mechanical keyboard threads on tech sites mainly because I enjoy watching ppl with expensive DIY keyboards report back that something on their keyboard has gone wrong.
[...]

Never understood this level of schadenfreude.

I mean if people are being asses about it I guess, but short of that it seems rather mean spirited of you. :/
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 04 April 2016, 18:52:59
I frequent mechanical keyboard threads on tech sites mainly because I enjoy watching ppl with expensive DIY keyboards report back that something on their keyboard has gone wrong.
[...]

Never understood this level of schadenfreude.

I mean if people are being asses about it I guess, but short of that it seems rather mean spirited of you. :/
Sounds like jealousy to me :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dtaflorida on Thu, 07 April 2016, 14:48:40
Sounds like jealousy to me :))

Maybe, tho I could afford to buy the parts and put one together if I wanted. My photography gear dwarfs the cost of keyboards. I'd agree, mean spirited, still the funniest America's Home Videos are always where something quite unfortunate happened to someone in the video isn't it?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: beehatch on Thu, 07 April 2016, 15:10:48
Sounds like jealousy to me :))

Maybe, tho I could afford to buy the parts and put one together if I wanted. My photography gear dwarfs the cost of keyboards. I'd agree, mean spirited, still the funniest America's Home Videos are always where something quite unfortunate happened to someone in the video isn't it?

Gonna have some gr8 laughs when yur photog gear bricks OuO

just for giggles
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dtaflorida on Thu, 07 April 2016, 15:19:46
Gonna have some gr8 laughs when yur photog gear bricks OuO

just for giggles

I've dropped my $2k Zeiss lens once. It's heart stopping at the time but I look back on it with laughter.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 07 April 2016, 15:23:23
Gonna have some gr8 laughs when yur photog gear bricks OuO

just for giggles

I've dropped my $2k Zeiss lens once. It's heart stopping at the time but I look back on it with laughter.

Only a $2k lens?  Amateur. I dropped and broke a $4-5k 300mm Canon lens once.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 07 April 2016, 15:31:26
Sounds like jealousy to me :))

Maybe, tho I could afford to buy the parts and put one together if I wanted. My photography gear dwarfs the cost of keyboards. I'd agree, mean spirited, still the funniest America's Home Videos are always where something quite unfortunate happened to someone in the video isn't it?

Man, people still watch that show?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 07 April 2016, 15:45:27
Gonna have some gr8 laughs when yur photog gear bricks OuO

just for giggles

I've dropped my $2k Zeiss lens once. It's heart stopping at the time but I look back on it with laughter.

Only a $2k lens?  Amateur. I dropped and broke a $4-5k 300mm Canon lens once.

Are we comparing stupidity?

I once bought a board with mx blacks on purpose. Boy is MY face red.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dtaflorida on Thu, 07 April 2016, 16:20:05
Only a $2k lens?  Amateur. I dropped and broke a $4-5k 300mm Canon lens once.

I do consider myself an amateur photographer. LOL I dropped it, but I didn't break it. Just the UV filter broke. Only amateurs ruin their IQ with UV filters  :p . Then again, pros insure their equipment so why would they bother trying to protect their gear eh?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Thu, 07 April 2016, 19:34:44
Gonna have some gr8 laughs when yur photog gear bricks OuO

just for giggles

I've dropped my $2k Zeiss lens once. It's heart stopping at the time but I look back on it with laughter.

Only a $2k lens?  Amateur. I dropped and broke a $4-5k 300mm Canon lens once.

Are we comparing stupidity?

I once bought a board with mx blacks on purpose. Boy is MY face red.

Yeah but you ended up with a HHKB thus you are forgiven.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Thu, 07 April 2016, 20:28:30
Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 07 April 2016, 20:49:21
Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.

Have Nuclear Green Data set in signature.  Opinion is invalid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: beehatch on Thu, 07 April 2016, 20:52:05
Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.

Have Nuclear Green Data set in signature.  Opinion is invalid.

el oh el
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Thu, 07 April 2016, 21:32:21
Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.

you have the ugliest colorway sets on your sig   >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Thu, 07 April 2016, 22:14:13
The best keyboard ever.

Wireless, quiet, and no weird colors.

[attachimg=1]

The worst keyboard ever.

Loud, outdated (no win key & beige), bulky.

[attachimg=2]

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Thu, 07 April 2016, 22:36:17
The best keyboard ever.

Wireless, quiet, and no weird colors.

(Attachment Link)

The worst keyboard ever.

Loud, outdated (no win key & beige), bulky.

(Attachment Link)

rip
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 07 April 2016, 22:46:46
The best keyboard ever.

Wireless, quiet, and no weird colors.

(Attachment Link)

The worst keyboard ever.

Loud, outdated (no win key & beige), bulky.

(Attachment Link)

The only wrong thing is you snooping in a mechanical keyboard thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 07 April 2016, 22:47:59
Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.


who threw up your signature?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 08 April 2016, 02:24:30
The best keyboard ever.

Wireless, quiet, and no weird colors.

(Attachment Link)

The worst keyboard ever.

Loud, outdated (no win key & beige), bulky.

(Attachment Link)

not gonna lie the apple chiclet keyboard still has a place in my heart
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 08 April 2016, 02:58:21
Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.

you have the ugliest colorway sets on your sig   >:D

^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 08 April 2016, 03:19:18
The best keyboard ever.

Wireless, quiet, and no weird colors.

(Attachment Link)

The worst keyboard ever.

Loud, outdated (no win key & beige), bulky.

(Attachment Link)

not gonna lie the apple chiclet keyboard still has a place in my heart

I had one of the first, the original. And I hated it. It felt like the switch was different. It was less spongy / mushy, very hard touch. And it wouldn't register all the time. Eventually, I broke it out of frustration with my bare fists. I made it dent.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: datamonger128 on Thu, 14 April 2016, 08:47:33
I'll go one worse than the guy who said that Apple's Bluetooth keyboard is the best.  I actually like the new butterfly switch keyboard used on the 2015 MacBook.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Thu, 14 April 2016, 11:09:49
I'll go one worse than the guy who said that Apple's Bluetooth keyboard is the best.  I actually like the new butterfly switch keyboard used on the 2015 MacBook.

I've been told that people who like the previous MacBook keyboard will hate this one and vice versa, is that true?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: carmenohio on Thu, 14 April 2016, 16:18:37
The iPad Smart Keyboard is the best keyboard you can buy for $169.00 (if you're an iPad pro owner).  It's super portable, conveniently attaches to your iPad with the smart connector, and doubles as an iPad cover.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pCGiY7sUoJ4/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 14 April 2016, 16:24:19
I'll go one worse than the guy who said that Apple's Bluetooth keyboard is the best.  I actually like the new butterfly switch keyboard used on the 2015 MacBook.

Really? What do you like about it?

Personally, I hate it. Travel is...well.. lacking mostly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 14 April 2016, 16:26:45
I'll go one worse than the guy who said that Apple's Bluetooth keyboard is the best.  I actually like the new butterfly switch keyboard used on the 2015 MacBook.

I've been told that people who like the previous MacBook keyboard will hate this one and vice versa, is that true?

Best keyboard for me Non-unibody MacBook Pro 2008 > MacBook Pro 2010 > Retina MacBook Pro > MacBook Air > Retina MacBook.

MacBook sucks (the new retina one). Keys do not wobble and it's nice they are large. But that travel and feel... it feels so weird. You are actually pressing but almost nothing happens. And it feels very.. too hard on the fingers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 14 April 2016, 16:27:22
The iPad Smart Keyboard is the best keyboard you can buy for $169.00 (if you're an iPad pro owner).  It's super portable, conveniently attaches to your iPad with the smart connector, and doubles as an iPad cover.

Show Image
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pCGiY7sUoJ4/maxresdefault.jpg)


Dat price though. FFS what is it with Apple these days. You need an extra mortgage if you want in the ecosystem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Thu, 14 April 2016, 19:41:26
Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.

Have Nuclear Green Data set in signature.  Opinion is invalid.

Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.

Have Nuclear Green Data set in signature.  Opinion is invalid.

el oh el

Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.

you have the ugliest colorway sets on your sig   >:D

Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.

you have the ugliest colorway sets on your sig   >:D

^

Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

Retro SA, on the other hand, looks amazing.


who threw up your signature?

Disgusting Beige fanboys identified.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kasakka on Fri, 15 April 2016, 01:23:42
The best keyboard ever.

Wireless, quiet, and no weird colors.

(Attachment Link)

That thing actually does have lots of things going for it but unfortunately typing comfort and key rollover aren't on the list. Because I forgot to bring my mechanical 60% to work one day I had to type the whole day on one of those Apple keyboards and those are some pretty mushy keys. Good layout and compact size though!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kasakka on Fri, 15 April 2016, 01:26:36
Beige key sets are disgusting. It didn't look good in the 90s either. Just because a thing is "retro" doesn't make it a good idea.

I kinda agree. I think they can look good when combined with the right contrasting color but the old school "grey and beige"...yeah I don't want to see that anymore. Thankfully they no longer make computer cases in that color.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 15 April 2016, 07:31:49
The iPad Smart Keyboard is the best keyboard you can buy for $169.00 (if you're an iPad pro owner).  It's super portable, conveniently attaches to your iPad with the smart connector, and doubles as an iPad cover.

Show Image
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pCGiY7sUoJ4/maxresdefault.jpg)


It is impressive that you took the time to make an account at GH, while you can go and post this comment in your wall at facebook instead, or maybe that picture at instagram, or tweet it, you may get friendly feedback there, or maybe you did not do that because nobody cares about your keyboard selection somewhere else. Welcome to GH, by the way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Fri, 15 April 2016, 07:36:56
The iPad Smart Keyboard is the best keyboard you can buy for $169.00 (if you're an iPad pro owner).  It's super portable, conveniently attaches to your iPad with the smart connector, and doubles as an iPad cover.

It is impressive that you took the time to make an account at GH, while you can go and post this comment in your wall at facebook instead, or maybe that picture at instagram, or tweet it, you may get friendly feedback there, or maybe you did not do that because nobody cares about your keyboard selection somewhere else. Welcome to GH, by the way.

Well, this is the "Unpopular Keyboard Opinions" thread.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 15 April 2016, 07:41:11
The iPad Smart Keyboard is the best keyboard you can buy for $169.00 (if you're an iPad pro owner).  It's super portable, conveniently attaches to your iPad with the smart connector, and doubles as an iPad cover.

It is impressive that you took the time to make an account at GH, while you can go and post this comment in your wall at facebook instead, or maybe that picture at instagram, or tweet it, you may get friendly feedback there, or maybe you did not do that because nobody cares about your keyboard selection somewhere else. Welcome to GH, by the way.

Well, this is the "Unpopular Keyboard Opinions" thread.  :))

Of course, but reading between lines, a newcomer posting her tablet keyboard could mean either someone in need of attention or maybe that she really thinks a site on mechanical keyboards should not exist,  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LunarisDream on Fri, 15 April 2016, 08:57:35
Adding springs does not make a rubber dome mechanical.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bucake on Fri, 15 April 2016, 09:00:07
not sure if that's really an unpopular one
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 15 April 2016, 15:15:58
Adding springs does not make a rubber dome mechanical.

hybrid hybrid HYBRID!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Floody on Fri, 15 April 2016, 15:19:51
Adding springs does not make a rubber dome mechanical.
Preach it!! 🙌
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:00:08
Adding springs does not make a rubber dome mechanical.
Preach it!! 🙌

Would it be fair to say: mechanical involves a proper switch, whereas rubber dome doesn't? Really rubber domes, well, literally have rubber domes that touch the PCB to register a key press. By that definition, Topre is a switch, is mech.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:04:53
who is calling Topre mechanical? Topre is a very fancy rubber dome. Rubber dome doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad Keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:07:43
who is calling Topre mechanical? Topre is a very fancy rubber dome. Rubber dome doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad Keyboard.

Well, technically, Topre literally is NOT a rubber dome because there is a switch that registers the key press, NOT the contact between rubber dome and PCB. There is still a switch with a stem that slides in the housing.

Rubber dome indeed does not necessary mean it is a bad keyboard though most rubber domes are POS.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:19:25
(http://i.imgur.com/HPbajxs.jpg)
The dome is mostly there to keep that spring centered over the contact points. That is why I believe that topre has a place in the mechanical switch category
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:23:57
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HPbajxs.jpg)

The dome is mostly there to keep that spring centered over the contact points. That is why I believe that topre has a place in the mechanical switch category

Eh, I have to disagree there.

There wouldn't be any tactile feeling if the domes weren't there. Honestly this whole "rubber dome" argument seems pretty repetitive. Even if technically it is a rubber dome, it isn't a "rubber dome"

When people talk about rubber dome boards they mean this
(http://www.digitalimage4k.com/wp-content/themes/shopperpress/thumbs/Dell-New-Keyboard.jpg)

Not this
(http://cms.whiterabbitexpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/pro2_overview_a_l.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:24:28
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HPbajxs.jpg)

The dome is mostly there to keep that spring centered over the contact points. That is why I believe that topre has a place in the mechanical switch category

That's what I meant, thanks for explaining it more clearly :-)

But I can see people arguing that topre is a "luxurious dome board">
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:26:00
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HPbajxs.jpg)

The dome is mostly there to keep that spring centered over the contact points. That is why I believe that topre has a place in the mechanical switch category

Eh, I have to disagree there.

There wouldn't be any tactile feeling if the domes weren't there. Honestly this whole "rubber dome" argument seems pretty repetitive. Even if technically it is a rubber dome, it isn't a "rubber dome"

When people talk about rubber dome boards they mean this
Show Image
(http://www.digitalimage4k.com/wp-content/themes/shopperpress/thumbs/Dell-New-Keyboard.jpg)


Not this
Show Image
(http://cms.whiterabbitexpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/pro2_overview_a_l.jpg)


So basically what you are saying is, people use the distinction for "regular 'crappy' boards like dell, hp, trust, oem, etc" vs not that?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:31:05
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HPbajxs.jpg)

The dome is mostly there to keep that spring centered over the contact points. That is why I believe that topre has a place in the mechanical switch category

Eh, I have to disagree there.

There wouldn't be any tactile feeling if the domes weren't there. Honestly this whole "rubber dome" argument seems pretty repetitive. Even if technically it is a rubber dome, it isn't a "rubber dome"

When people talk about rubber dome boards they mean this
Show Image
(http://www.digitalimage4k.com/wp-content/themes/shopperpress/thumbs/Dell-New-Keyboard.jpg)


Not this
Show Image
(http://cms.whiterabbitexpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/pro2_overview_a_l.jpg)


So basically what you are saying is, people use the distinction for "regular 'crappy' boards like dell, hp, trust, oem, etc" vs not that?

In other words I guess you could say that.

If you asked anyone to describe a rubber dome board the most popular words would probably be "cheap, mushy, bad feeling, low quality." I doubt many people (maybe a few who want to banter) would say Topre. I think it's more about the connotation of the word than the actual meaning. Even if Topre is a rubber dome board, I don't care, it doesn't change anything about how great it feels.

That said, I don't necessarily think it's rubber dome or mechanical though, I think it's more of in between.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:32:32
That said, I don't necessarily think it's rubber dome or mechanical though, I think it's more of in between.

Yeah, Topre is also referred to as a "hybrid switch". Though the debate ensues. It pops up every now and then (like now).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:34:41
There is no tactile feeling associated with certain cherry mx/gateron etc. switches but no one is arguing on whether or not they're mechanical. This is interesting though!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Fri, 15 April 2016, 18:40:26
There is no tactile feeling associated with certain cherry mx/gateron etc. switches but no one is arguing on whether or not they're mechanical. This is interesting though!

Switches aren't defined as mechanical as long as they have some sort of tactile feeling, it's more about how they're made

We should just make this easy and completely get rid of the name "mechanical keyboard"

Only "Premium keyboards"

</s>
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 15 April 2016, 18:45:39
Hell i don't care what anyone classifies Topre as...No Cherry switch No gateron Nor Kailh no Greetech nor Outemu nor ALPS
(Buckling spring a close second though..) comes close to feeling as good as Topre...even if Dog **** were under the keycaps as long as i get that Topre feel and sound i do not care how it is achieved.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 15 April 2016, 18:52:42
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HPbajxs.jpg)

The dome is mostly there to keep that spring centered over the contact points. That is why I believe that topre has a place in the mechanical switch category

Eh, I have to disagree there.

There wouldn't be any tactile feeling if the domes weren't there. Honestly this whole "rubber dome" argument seems pretty repetitive. Even if technically it is a rubber dome, it isn't a "rubber dome"

When people talk about rubber dome boards they mean this
Show Image
(http://www.digitalimage4k.com/wp-content/themes/shopperpress/thumbs/Dell-New-Keyboard.jpg)


Not this
Show Image
(http://cms.whiterabbitexpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/pro2_overview_a_l.jpg)


There is no tactile feeling associated with certain cherry mx/gateron etc. switches but no one is arguing on whether or not they're mechanical. This is interesting though!

Switches aren't defined as mechanical as long as they have some sort of tactile feeling, it's more about how they're made

We should just make this easy and completely get rid of the name "mechanical keyboard"

Only "Premium keyboards"

</s>

Haha, I only mentioned that because you mentioned tactile feel as the reason you disagreed with me.

I agree that we should call them hybrid switches. Calling them mechanical switches might produce headaches. Headaches are not good for business (http://yoursmiles.org/ksmile/snail/k4711.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 15 April 2016, 19:35:45
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HPbajxs.jpg)

The dome is mostly there to keep that spring centered over the contact points. That is why I believe that topre has a place in the mechanical switch category

Eh, I have to disagree there.

There wouldn't be any tactile feeling if the domes weren't there. Honestly this whole "rubber dome" argument seems pretty repetitive. Even if technically it is a rubber dome, it isn't a "rubber dome"

When people talk about rubber dome boards they mean this
Show Image
(http://www.digitalimage4k.com/wp-content/themes/shopperpress/thumbs/Dell-New-Keyboard.jpg)


Not this
Show Image
(http://cms.whiterabbitexpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/pro2_overview_a_l.jpg)

to be fair those dells aren't really too bad!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 15 April 2016, 20:35:35
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HPbajxs.jpg)

The dome is mostly there to keep that spring centered over the contact points. That is why I believe that topre has a place in the mechanical switch category

Eh, I have to disagree there.

There wouldn't be any tactile feeling if the domes weren't there. Honestly this whole "rubber dome" argument seems pretty repetitive. Even if technically it is a rubber dome, it isn't a "rubber dome"

When people talk about rubber dome boards they mean this
Show Image
(http://www.digitalimage4k.com/wp-content/themes/shopperpress/thumbs/Dell-New-Keyboard.jpg)


Not this
Show Image
(http://cms.whiterabbitexpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/pro2_overview_a_l.jpg)

to be fair those dells aren't really too bad!

Let's forget about all MX, ALPS/Matias and BS and give everything you have with them to the good will; also, get some twenty dollar rubber dome keyboards and close GH, r/MK and DT, immediately. Those having a Topre could create their very own forum called the Expensive Rubber Lovers Church (The one and only actual mechanical keyboard congregation), they will admit only those that have at least a HHKB with dental bands and a RF equipped with PBT space bars and at least two artisan's over $200 each.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Sat, 16 April 2016, 01:50:37
I always used the term "mechanical keyboard" for a keyboard that has separate switches. And Topre does in fact have functionally separate switches even if practically the domes are on a single sheet, because as many dome swap mods proven, as long as you line them up right you can cut them up to single switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 16 April 2016, 04:08:37
I always used the term "mechanical keyboard" for a keyboard that has separate switches. And Topre does in fact have functionally separate switches even if practically the domes are on a single sheet, because as many dome swap mods proven, as long as you line them up right you can cut them up to single switches.

That's how I see it as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LunarisDream on Sat, 16 April 2016, 06:24:38

Haha, I only mentioned that because you mentioned tactile feel as the reason you disagreed with me.

I agree that we should call them hybrid switches. Calling them mechanical switches might produce headaches. Headaches are not good for business
Show Image
(http://yoursmiles.org/ksmile/snail/k4711.gif)


Aren't Topre switches marketed as "hybrid capacitive switches", at least by CM?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 16 April 2016, 06:40:28

Haha, I only mentioned that because you mentioned tactile feel as the reason you disagreed with me.

I agree that we should call them hybrid switches. Calling them mechanical switches might produce headaches. Headaches are not good for business
Show Image
(http://yoursmiles.org/ksmile/snail/k4711.gif)


Aren't Topre switches marketed as "hybrid capacitive switches", at least by CM?

Yup, proof:

http://cmu.coolermaster.com/hybrid-capacitive-switch/ (http://cmu.coolermaster.com/hybrid-capacitive-switch/)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sat, 16 April 2016, 07:59:11
Why do you guys insist on calling topre a mechanical switch?

keep it simple... Topre is simply a "Topre switch"

Also there are no mechanical parts inside a topre switch. It is a plunger that only goes up and down.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 16 April 2016, 08:10:26
Why do you guys insist on calling topre a mechanical switch?

keep it simple... Topre is simply a "Topre switch"

Also there are no mechanical parts inside a topre switch. It is a plunger that only goes up and down.

Nope, not true. There is a conic spring inside the switch housing:

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sat, 16 April 2016, 08:27:25
Why do you guys insist on calling topre a mechanical switch?

keep it simple... Topre is simply a "Topre switch"

Also there are no mechanical parts inside a topre switch. It is a plunger that only goes up and down.

Nope, not true. There is a conic spring inside the switch housing:

(Attachment Link)

I know what a topre switch is.. but what I am saying is that topre is simply a dome you press that goes up and down. The spring is just there so the switch activates and how is that any different from a rubber dome? The spring is just a different method of switch activation. You can probably place a tiny piece of conductive metal to the top of an topre plunger and the switch will still activate.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Rubber_dome
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 16 April 2016, 08:38:15
Why do you guys insist on calling topre a mechanical switch?

keep it simple... Topre is simply a "Topre switch"

Also there are no mechanical parts inside a topre switch. It is a plunger that only goes up and down.

Nope, not true. There is a conic spring inside the switch housing:

(Attachment Link)

I know what a topre switch is.. but what I am saying is that topre is simply a dome you press that goes up and down. The spring is just there so the switch activates and how is that any different from a rubber dome? The spring is just a different method of switch activation. You can probably place a tiny piece of conductive metal to the top of an topre plunger and the switch will still activate.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Rubber_dome

So your definition of "mechanical" is a switch where you NEED to spring to get a key registered, which is not the case with topre?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 16 April 2016, 08:45:03
This thing about what actually makes a keyboard mechanical has been discussed multiple times before; but, it is always an interesting aspect of our trade; truth be told, anything that has moving parts is by definition a mechanism, therefore, it is irrelevant if the mechanism includes rubber, steel or plastic parts; thus, by definition, all keyboards are mechanical, unless they do not have moving parts. Touchscreen devices that offer a "keyboard" are not mechanical, but even the vibrators some phones and tablets use to give the user some feedback of the typing action are mechanical devices, maybe the keyboard is not mechanical but the feedback mechanism and the software that synchronize it with the user's action is. Also, in some aspects, the screen's layers of capacitive materials that registered the input of the user are also mechanical devices, a flexible net is bended to record the position of the touch on it, that later will be translated into an action by a complex code sequence. Mechatronics plus Infotronics devices surround our daily activities.

This discussion will never end, however, mechanical actuators based on rubber components and those based on metallic and plastic ones make a different typing experience. Each group of users would like to think that they are using the only true mechanical keyboard and there is no reason to try to convince them otherwise, let each mechanical keyboard user to enjoy their devices, they earned that right when they decided to pay a lot more for their keyboards than those that decided that there is no reason to replace the stock rubber dome keyboards that came with their PCs. Do not let them to know that even the last are users of mechanical keyboards, a cheaper iteration yes, but mechanical at the end.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 16 April 2016, 08:53:51
This thing about what actually makes a keyboard mechanical has been discussed multiple times before; but, it is always an interesting aspect of our trade; truth be told, anything that has moving parts is by definition a mechanism, therefore, it is irrelevant if the mechanism includes rubber, steel or plastic parts; thus, by definition, all keyboards are mechanical, unless they do not have moving parts. Touchscreen devices that offer a "keyboard" are not mechanical, but even the vibrators some phones and tablets use to give the user some feedback of the typing action are mechanical devices, maybe the keyboard is not mechanical but the feedback mechanism and the software that synchronize it with the user's action is. Also, in some aspects, the screen's layers of capacitive materials that registered the input of the user are also mechanical devices, a flexible net is bended to record the position of the touch on it, that later will be translated into an action by a complex code sequence. Mechatronics plus Infotronics devices surround our daily activities.

This discussion will never end, however, mechanical actuators based on rubber components and those based on metallic and plastic ones make a different typing experience. Each group of users would like to think that they are using the only true mechanical keyboard and there is no reason to try to convince them otherwise, let each mechanical keyboard user to enjoy their devices, they earned that right when they decided to pay a lot more for their keyboards than those that decided that there is no reason to replace the stock rubber dome keyboards that came with their PCs. Do not let them to know that even the last are users of mechanical keyboards, a cheaper iteration yes, but mechanical at the end.

This is all very interesting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Sat, 16 April 2016, 09:53:14
I actually like a definition of "mechanical" according to which an ordinary rubber dome is mechanical, but Topre is not: if it relies on making mechanical contact between parts to detect keypresses, then it's mechanical, and otherwise it's not. I like this definition because a lot of the other options seem basically arbitrary-- I mean, there's nothing inherently "mechanical" about metal but not rubber, for instance.

IIRC some sources of keyboard information from past decades used this definition, which is why you'll occasionally see statements about mechanical keyboards being the cheapest and least reliable kind of keyboard...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 16 April 2016, 10:02:53
I actually like a definition of "mechanical" according to which an ordinary rubber dome is mechanical, but Topre is not: if it relies on making mechanical contact between parts to detect keypresses, then it's mechanical, and otherwise it's not. I like this definition because a lot of the other options seem basically arbitrary-- I mean, there's nothing inherently "mechanical" about metal but not rubber, for instance.

IIRC some sources of keyboard information from past decades used this definition, which is why you'll occasionally see statements about mechanical keyboards being the cheapest and least reliable kind of keyboard...

Makes sense.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Sat, 23 April 2016, 18:34:01
I actually like a definition of "mechanical" according to which an ordinary rubber dome is mechanical, but Topre is not: if it relies on making mechanical contact between parts to detect keypresses, then it's mechanical, and otherwise it's not. I like this definition because a lot of the other options seem basically arbitrary-- I mean, there's nothing inherently "mechanical" about metal but not rubber, for instance.

IIRC some sources of keyboard information from past decades used this definition, which is why you'll occasionally see statements about mechanical keyboards being the cheapest and least reliable kind of keyboard...

Mechanical is the least reliable. This one below has infinite keypresses; let's see Cherry beat that! Type till you die!!!

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Sun, 24 April 2016, 02:00:44
I actually like a definition of "mechanical" according to which an ordinary rubber dome is mechanical, but Topre is not: if it relies on making mechanical contact between parts to detect keypresses, then it's mechanical, and otherwise it's not. I like this definition because a lot of the other options seem basically arbitrary-- I mean, there's nothing inherently "mechanical" about metal but not rubber, for instance.

IIRC some sources of keyboard information from past decades used this definition, which is why you'll occasionally see statements about mechanical keyboards being the cheapest and least reliable kind of keyboard...

Mechanical is the least reliable. This one below has infinite keypresses; let's see Cherry beat that! Type till you die!!!

(Attachment Link)

That projector won't last an infinite keypresses. I doubt that projector could last 3 years.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Keycap on Sun, 24 April 2016, 09:41:25
1. I absolutely love Black Alps and I prefer them to White Alps in most cases
2. I really like shiny ABS keycaps unless they're pad printed
3. I have no problem with using rubber domes and I still like them a lot
4. I'm not too fond of 60% keyboards (I own a Magicforce and the key combos get somewhat tedious at times)
5. I really enjoy Cherry MX Black switches and I find that they're very nice to type on
6. I completely prefer stock Cherry stabilizers to clipped stabilizers, the clipped stabilizers feel so rattly
7. I sometimes prefer clicky switches for gaming and linear switches for typing

Not that unpopular, but they count, I guess.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 24 April 2016, 09:51:01
Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Keycap on Sun, 24 April 2016, 09:56:26
Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.

I'll never really understand artisan keycaps. How a little piece of plastic can cost over $400 is beyond me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 24 April 2016, 10:54:16
Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.

I'll never really understand artisan keycaps. How a little piece of plastic can cost over $400 is beyond me.

At least Clacks looked pretty good.  Some of the garbage I've seen on r/MK makes me question their mental faculties.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 24 April 2016, 12:05:50
Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.

I'll never really understand artisan keycaps. How a little piece of plastic can cost over $400 is beyond me.

Really? Which cap was it that sold for $400?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 24 April 2016, 12:07:48
Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.

I'll never really understand artisan keycaps. How a little piece of plastic can cost over $400 is beyond me.

Really? Which cap was it that sold for $400?

Click Clacks at the height of CC mania.  I think Iremember jcrouse buying one for $500 in a GH fundraiser.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Keycap on Sun, 24 April 2016, 12:36:07
who is calling Topre mechanical? Topre is a very fancy rubber dome. Rubber dome doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad Keyboard.

Well, technically, Topre literally is NOT a rubber dome because there is a switch that registers the key press, NOT the contact between rubber dome and PCB. There is still a switch with a stem that slides in the housing.

Rubber dome indeed does not necessary mean it is a bad keyboard though most rubber domes are POS.

Yes, but the rubber dome in Topre is why it's liked so much. Take away the rubber dome from a Topre switch. Is it usable at all? Barely, if at all usable. It would just be an insanely light conical spring over capacitive PCB switch—that's not what makes Topre a highly-regarded switch. Topre is defined by its character tactility and its *thock*, which is certainly produced by the dome itself and not the spring or the slider. And if you'd like to argue that Topre is not a rubber dome, please explain to me how the tactility is achieved. Surely there's a rubber dome in Topre, if you couldn't tell. It's not an "electrostatic layer", it's a rubber dome. It buckles, it's rubber, and it has a dome shape. And it makes a major difference in how the switch feels.

The fact that a rubber dome is used in Topre does not exclude it from being mechanical, sure, but there are different terminologies for domes. The most common being a pressure dome, AKA membrane dome. The dome presses down onto a membrane. It is called a rubber dome not because of the membrane, but because a rubber dome is used to press down onto the membrane. Almost identical to Topre, except Topre uses a capacitive PCB. Replace the membrane in a pressure dome with a capacitive PCB and a conical spring. Remember, the PCB and spring in Topre are only present for the actuation of the switch, just like the membrane is only present for the actuation of the pressure dome switch. Same exact thing, isn't it?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 24 April 2016, 14:29:20
Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.

I agree completely, however I only need 1 artisian in my life.

Doubleshot Billy Mays for CAPS
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 24 April 2016, 17:49:13
Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.

I'll never really understand artisan keycaps. How a little piece of plastic can cost over $400 is beyond me.

Really? Which cap was it that sold for $400?

Click Clacks at the height of CC mania.  I think Iremember jcrouse buying one for $500 in a GH fundraiser.

Oh wow, they were that popular?! Holy moley :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 24 April 2016, 18:53:37
Oh wow, they were that popular?! Holy moley :eek:
Multiple have sold for over $900 :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Anole on Mon, 25 April 2016, 14:50:03
1. You shouldn't buy any boards with MX clones
2. ABS caps are bad
3. All keyboards should be ortholinear
4. The QWERTY layout should be revised
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 25 April 2016, 15:04:06
Everything Logitech is overrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 25 April 2016, 15:26:38
1. You shouldn't buy any boards with MX clones
2. ABS caps are bad
3. All keyboards should be ortholinear
4. The QWERTY layout should be revised

About #1, while some MX clones are inferior, Gaterons and Zealios are often better than their Cherry counterparts.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 25 April 2016, 15:34:40
1. You shouldn't buy any boards with MX clones
2. ABS caps are bad
3. All keyboards should be ortholinear
4. The QWERTY layout should be revised

About #1, while some MX clones are inferior, Gaterons and Zealios are often better than their Cherry counterparts.

I wouldn't calm them better as they have their own sets of issues.  Gaterons appear to be more prone to chattering and they have more stem wobble.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 25 April 2016, 20:42:20
1. You shouldn't buy any boards with MX clones
2. ABS caps are bad
3. All keyboards should be ortholinear
4. The QWERTY layout should be revised

About #1, while some MX clones are inferior, Gaterons and Zealios are often better than their Cherry counterparts.

I wouldn't calm them better as they have their own sets of issues.  Gaterons appear to be more prone to chattering and they have more stem wobble.

Ah, I knew about the R1 Zealios and chattering but hadn't seen anything about Gaterons before.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Tue, 26 April 2016, 00:16:30
Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.

I'll never really understand artisan keycaps. How a little piece of plastic can cost over $400 is beyond me.

At least Clacks looked pretty good.  Some of the garbage I've seen on r/MK makes me question their mental faculties.
i'd have to agree. there's so few artisan caps that actually piqued my interest.
i would like to try clacks if the price weren't so outrageous... and maybe some gems. brobots are okay, also goes with holy oops.. but the other, i don't know.


Everything Logitech is overrated.
wow, this is quite extreme  :))
lemme fixed it for you : everything logitech keyboard is overrated.
i love their mice. it's so good.

1. You shouldn't buy any boards with MX clones
2. ABS caps are bad
3. All keyboards should be ortholinear
4. The QWERTY layout should be revised
another extreme opinion we have here  :))
i have to agree with num. 1 & 2 (even though gateron makes better/same quality as cherry, and i've heard good things about zealios)

but may i hear your opinion why number 3 and 4 exists? i have yet to try ortholinear keyboard but i would try if someone (at my country) give me a loan...

Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.

I'll never really understand artisan keycaps. How a little piece of plastic can cost over $400 is beyond me.

Really? Which cap was it that sold for $400?
clacks sculls? some even go above $900, i've heard.

you know, it looks like 70~80% of this thread is only talking about topre switch and 60% keyboard being overrated, i suppose :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Tue, 26 April 2016, 00:18:55
Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.

I'll never really understand artisan keycaps. How a little piece of plastic can cost over $400 is beyond me.

you don't understand or you don't want to understand?

it's pretty easy to understand. people want stuff. people have money. people buy the stuff with the money they have at the prices they think it's worth it.

it's not a new concept. every hobby has it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: beehatch on Tue, 26 April 2016, 00:20:22
Artisan keycaps, even those by some of the top names, are ugly as ****.  Give me vintage Cherry doubleshots over those any day.

I'll never really understand artisan keycaps. How a little piece of plastic can cost over $400 is beyond me.

you don't understand or you don't want to understand?

it's pretty easy to understand. people want stuff. people have money. people buy the stuff with the money they have at the prices they think it's worth it.

it's not a new concept. every hobby has it.

mind blown
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: y11971alex on Tue, 26 April 2016, 00:28:14

 The shift and backspace keys on the Model M are just impossible to press with a pinky.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 26 April 2016, 00:29:06

 The shift and backspace keys on the Model M are just impossible to press with a pinky.
Change the stabs?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Tue, 26 April 2016, 02:54:08
1. You shouldn't buy any boards with MX clones
2. ABS caps are bad
3. All keyboards should be ortholinear
4. The QWERTY layout should be revised

1. IMO a good portion(brand wise not produced switch count wise) of clones beat the original. If anything, I wouldn't buy any recent MX's given how bad they got.
2. The difference between good and bad ABS is much bigger than with PBT. Maybe try a good set and not just Crapwidow caps.
3. Ortholinear boards are a flawed concept because they force twisting wrists outwards more than standard stagger. If anything, symmetric stagger should become common.
4. There's no perfect layout and there never will be. Just use what's best for you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: shortround on Sun, 01 May 2016, 00:01:02
Artisan caps are like the genital warts of a keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Sun, 01 May 2016, 00:31:42
Artisan caps are like the genital warts of a keyboard.

Yeah, I think my main issue is that they don't really fit the design of what a keycap is supposed to function as. I'd rather go for something that looks like it was designed with functionality as an underlying goal, and have good aesthetics emerge from that achievement of providing something that functions well.

I think a good example of something that fits this description would be a titanium spacebar. It could even have some cool engraving on the front. Maybe like how firearms would have engraving on them to dress them up a bit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 03 May 2016, 16:24:37
ISO kits are ugly and the Enter key just feels horrible to use.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 03 May 2016, 16:45:01
I'm not a fan of most keyset legends
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 18:55:12
1. You shouldn't buy any boards with MX clones
I'd honestly rather use Greetechs new Cherry is so awful feeling.

you know, it looks like 70~80% of this thread is only talking about topre switch and 60% keyboard being overrated, i suppose :))
This guy gets it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Tue, 03 May 2016, 18:58:29
ISO kits are ugly

Quote
Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 19:22:45

 The shift and backspace keys on the Model M are just impossible to press with a pinky.

You must have some really weak pinkies or really small hands :p :p :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Tue, 03 May 2016, 19:26:57
ISO kits are ugly and the Enter key just feels horrible to use.

I don't think this is unpopular. ISO Is pointless
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 03 May 2016, 20:11:30
ISO kits are ugly

Quote
Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

It's unpopular with me  :mad:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Wed, 04 May 2016, 10:29:20
So uh. I don't know if this is actually an unpopular opinion. I also don't know if I've posted this before. In fact, I probably have. Not sure. Ever since going on a diet several months ago, I've been kind of out of it, so now I sometimes repeat myself like a senile old person (even more than I used to).

Right.

Trackpoints.

More specifically, the fact that decent versions for normal-profile keyboards with acceptable durability and enough sensitivity to be used on a modern monitor at 6/11 Windows cursor speed (EPP off of course), need to be made to exist, and that every keyboard should then have one.

Why? Well, think of the main reasons that home desktop users appeal to when they try to explain those deformed, stubby little compact keyboards that so many enthusiasts buy. Specifically "it lets you keep your hands closer together, in a more natural position," or "it makes it faster and easier to switch back and forth between the keyboard and mouse."

Anything (okay, almost anything) a compact keyboard, no matter how small-- even 60%, even 40%-- does in those regards, a keyboard with a TrackPoint, even if it's full-size, heck, even if it's a monster with double function rows and macro keys on both size, does better. And it does it without having to sacrifice any keys at all. I guess I could still see using a stunted keyboard if you spend many hours every day playing FPS and really want to use a conventional mouse for it, despite the ergonomic disadvantages of such a device, but even then, you should still have a TrackPoint too for anything else you might want to do at your computer. In fact, given that the TrackPoint takes up very little additional space-- just a tiny bit of extra thickness for the bottom edge to accommodate the buttons-- even if you strongly prefer a different pointing device, you should have a TrackPoint anyway, just to let you vary the motions you're using for mousing (remember, the "R" in "RSI" stands for repetitive).

Conveniently, if all keyboards had TrackPoints, then all keycap sets would have compatible G, H, and B keycaps, so there would not be any problems in that regard.

Sometimes people complain about the danger of hitting the TrackPoint by accident. Personally, I'm not convinced that this is real. I have a screwed up typing style where I press some of the keys in the middle area of the keyboard with either hand depending on what has come before, so if anyone was going to bump into the TrackPoint by accident, it'd be me. But, thinking back to all of the things I did on my ThinkPad, I can't recall that ever actually happening.

Anyway, yeah. TrackPoints. People who supply components to keyboard makers need to get on that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vegs on Wed, 04 May 2016, 11:57:00
MX blues are terrible
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 04 May 2016, 11:59:38
MX blues are terrible

Gasp!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shaussman on Wed, 04 May 2016, 12:23:53
ISO kits are ugly and the Enter key just feels horrible to use.

I don't think this is unpopular. ISO Is pointless

The enter key is just a giant waste of space. It's fine otherwise.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 04 May 2016, 22:05:28
So uh. I don't know if this is actually an unpopular opinion. I also don't know if I've posted this before. In fact, I probably have. Not sure. Ever since going on a diet several months ago, I've been kind of out of it, so now I sometimes repeat myself like a senile old person (even more than I used to).

Right.

Trackpoints.
More
More specifically, the fact that decent versions for normal-profile keyboards with acceptable durability and enough sensitivity to be used on a modern monitor at 6/11 Windows cursor speed (EPP off of course), need to be made to exist, and that every keyboard should then have one.

Why? Well, think of the main reasons that home desktop users appeal to when they try to explain those deformed, stubby little compact keyboards that so many enthusiasts buy. Specifically "it lets you keep your hands closer together, in a more natural position," or "it makes it faster and easier to switch back and forth between the keyboard and mouse."

Anything (okay, almost anything) a compact keyboard, no matter how small-- even 60%, even 40%-- does in those regards, a keyboard with a TrackPoint, even if it's full-size, heck, even if it's a monster with double function rows and macro keys on both size, does better. And it does it without having to sacrifice any keys at all. I guess I could still see using a stunted keyboard if you spend many hours every day playing FPS and really want to use a conventional mouse for it, despite the ergonomic disadvantages of such a device, but even then, you should still have a TrackPoint too for anything else you might want to do at your computer. In fact, given that the TrackPoint takes up very little additional space-- just a tiny bit of extra thickness for the bottom edge to accommodate the buttons-- even if you strongly prefer a different pointing device, you should have a TrackPoint anyway, just to let you vary the motions you're using for mousing (remember, the "R" in "RSI" stands for repetitive).

Conveniently, if all keyboards had TrackPoints, then all keycap sets would have compatible G, H, and B keycaps, so there would not be any problems in that regard.

Sometimes people complain about the danger of hitting the TrackPoint by accident. Personally, I'm not convinced that this is real. I have a screwed up typing style where I press some of the keys in the middle area of the keyboard with either hand depending on what has come before, so if anyone was going to bump into the TrackPoint by accident, it'd be me. But, thinking back to all of the things I did on my ThinkPad, I can't recall that ever actually happening.

Anyway, yeah. TrackPoints. People who supply components to keyboard makers need to get on that.

Yeah, my big problem with trackpoints is that they're infinitely slower and harder to use. Also look like garbage
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Darkshado on Wed, 04 May 2016, 23:49:42
I prefer the ISO layout and I almost teared up when I read FoxWolf1's plea for more trackpoints :p

For TrackPoints to be interesting, crank up the sensitivity and increase acceleration, only then do they really shine. They become borderline telepathic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venatorious on Thu, 05 May 2016, 00:12:50
MX blues are terrible

All Cherry switches are crappy and scratchy even with lube. 

Alps for the win.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nephiel on Thu, 05 May 2016, 01:54:22
So uh. I don't know if this is actually an unpopular opinion. I also don't know if I've posted this before. In fact, I probably have. Not sure. Ever since going on a diet several months ago, I've been kind of out of it, so now I sometimes repeat myself like a senile old person (even more than I used to).

Right.

Trackpoints.

More specifically, the fact that decent versions for normal-profile keyboards with acceptable durability and enough sensitivity to be used on a modern monitor at 6/11 Windows cursor speed (EPP off of course), need to be made to exist, and that every keyboard should then have one.

Why? Well, think of the main reasons that home desktop users appeal to when they try to explain those deformed, stubby little compact keyboards that so many enthusiasts buy. Specifically "it lets you keep your hands closer together, in a more natural position," or "it makes it faster and easier to switch back and forth between the keyboard and mouse."

Anything (okay, almost anything) a compact keyboard, no matter how small-- even 60%, even 40%-- does in those regards, a keyboard with a TrackPoint, even if it's full-size, heck, even if it's a monster with double function rows and macro keys on both size, does better. And it does it without having to sacrifice any keys at all. I guess I could still see using a stunted keyboard if you spend many hours every day playing FPS and really want to use a conventional mouse for it, despite the ergonomic disadvantages of such a device, but even then, you should still have a TrackPoint too for anything else you might want to do at your computer. In fact, given that the TrackPoint takes up very little additional space-- just a tiny bit of extra thickness for the bottom edge to accommodate the buttons-- even if you strongly prefer a different pointing device, you should have a TrackPoint anyway, just to let you vary the motions you're using for mousing (remember, the "R" in "RSI" stands for repetitive).

Conveniently, if all keyboards had TrackPoints, then all keycap sets would have compatible G, H, and B keycaps, so there would not be any problems in that regard.

Sometimes people complain about the danger of hitting the TrackPoint by accident. Personally, I'm not convinced that this is real. I have a screwed up typing style where I press some of the keys in the middle area of the keyboard with either hand depending on what has come before, so if anyone was going to bump into the TrackPoint by accident, it'd be me. But, thinking back to all of the things I did on my ThinkPad, I can't recall that ever actually happening.

Anyway, yeah. TrackPoints. People who supply components to keyboard makers need to get on that.

I prefer the ISO layout and I almost teared up when I read FoxWolf1's plea for more trackpoints :p

For TrackPoints to be interesting, crank up the sensitivity and increase acceleration, only then do they really shine. They become borderline telepathic.
I can't possibly put into words how strongly I agree to this. It was the reason I built a board which in turn got me into this hobby in the first place.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Thu, 05 May 2016, 04:10:32
Having used a custom layout for almost two weeks now, I came to the conclusion that all modifiers should be toggleable: instead of holding down shift, alt, ctrl and the rest, press & release to toggle them on, press again to toggle them off. I found that this makes it much more comfortable to type, and use key chords: I don't have to hold multiple buttons, thus, less gymnastics for the fingers, and I can put the modifiers to a place where toggling them is trivial and fast, but holding them would be a pain in the backside: the thumb cluster on the ErgoDox. As such, I was able to banish the capslock key, as my shift does the same thing, but better (it also shifts the number row too, which caps doesn't).

Best experiment ever. Now I'm convinced this should be the default on every keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: phosphoric on Thu, 05 May 2016, 14:43:13
Having used a custom layout for almost two weeks now, I came to the conclusion that all modifiers should be toggleable: instead of holding down shift, alt, ctrl and the rest, press & release to toggle them on, press again to toggle them off. I found that this makes it much more comfortable to type, and use key chords: I don't have to hold multiple buttons, thus, less gymnastics for the fingers, and I can put the modifiers to a place where toggling them is trivial and fast, but holding them would be a pain in the backside: the thumb cluster on the ErgoDox. As such, I was able to banish the capslock key, as my shift does the same thing, but better (it also shifts the number row too, which caps doesn't).

Best experiment ever. Now I'm convinced this should be the default on every keyboard.

god, this reminds me of the asshats i know who type capital letters by toggling caps lock. they're not toggle-able because it would be annoying as hell to hit shift, press i, and then hit shift again. idk if it works for you, excellent, but this is definitely one of the more unpopular posts in the thread LOL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 05 May 2016, 14:59:19
Having used a custom layout for almost two weeks now, I came to the conclusion that all modifiers should be toggleable: instead of holding down shift, alt, ctrl and the rest, press & release to toggle them on, press again to toggle them off. I found that this makes it much more comfortable to type, and use key chords: I don't have to hold multiple buttons, thus, less gymnastics for the fingers, and I can put the modifiers to a place where toggling them is trivial and fast, but holding them would be a pain in the backside: the thumb cluster on the ErgoDox. As such, I was able to banish the capslock key, as my shift does the same thing, but better (it also shifts the number row too, which caps doesn't).

Best experiment ever. Now I'm convinced this should be the default on every keyboard.

god, this reminds me of the asshats i know who type capital letters by toggling caps lock. they're not toggle-able because it would be annoying as hell to hit shift, press i, and then hit shift again. idk if it works for you, excellent, but this is definitely one of the more unpopular posts in the thread LOL

(http://i.imgur.com/ezHPmJT.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 05 May 2016, 15:14:40
MX blues are terrible

All Cherry switches are crappy and scratchy even with lube. 

Alps for the win.

Actually, I have some heavily worn in MX Blues, they are THE smoothest switches I've ever tried. They're from a G1 BlackWidow.

but yeah they still suck
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Thu, 05 May 2016, 15:50:04
Having used a custom layout for almost two weeks now, I came to the conclusion that all modifiers should be toggleable: instead of holding down shift, alt, ctrl and the rest, press & release to toggle them on, press again to toggle them off. I found that this makes it much more comfortable to type, and use key chords: I don't have to hold multiple buttons, thus, less gymnastics for the fingers, and I can put the modifiers to a place where toggling them is trivial and fast, but holding them would be a pain in the backside: the thumb cluster on the ErgoDox. As such, I was able to banish the capslock key, as my shift does the same thing, but better (it also shifts the number row too, which caps doesn't).

Best experiment ever. Now I'm convinced this should be the default on every keyboard.

god, this reminds me of the asshats i know who type capital letters by toggling caps lock. they're not toggle-able because it would be annoying as hell to hit shift, press i, and then hit shift again. idk if it works for you, excellent, but this is definitely one of the more unpopular posts in the thread LOL

It really is not annoying. Mentally, you do 3 actions anyway: press shift, tap key, release shift. I do 3 actions too: tap shift, tap key, tap shift. Since my shift is at my thumb, this is really fast, effortless, and less gymnastics for my fingers, since I do not have to hold anything. Apparently, I'm not the only one (http://seanwrona.com/typing.php) (see typing tips at the end).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 16:47:56
Having used a custom layout for almost two weeks now, I came to the conclusion that all modifiers should be toggleable: instead of holding down shift, alt, ctrl and the rest, press & release to toggle them on, press again to toggle them off. I found that this makes it much more comfortable to type, and use key chords: I don't have to hold multiple buttons, thus, less gymnastics for the fingers, and I can put the modifiers to a place where toggling them is trivial and fast, but holding them would be a pain in the backside: the thumb cluster on the ErgoDox. As such, I was able to banish the capslock key, as my shift does the same thing, but better (it also shifts the number row too, which caps doesn't).

Best experiment ever. Now I'm convinced this should be the default on every keyboard.

god, this reminds me of the asshats i know who type capital letters by toggling caps lock. they're not toggle-able because it would be annoying as hell to hit shift, press i, and then hit shift again. idk if it works for you, excellent, but this is definitely one of the more unpopular posts in the thread LOL

It really is not annoying. Mentally, you do 3 actions anyway: press shift, tap key, release shift. I do 3 actions too: tap shift, tap key, tap shift. Since my shift is at my thumb, this is really fast, effortless, and less gymnastics for my fingers, since I do not have to hold anything. Apparently, I'm not the only one (http://seanwrona.com/typing.php) (see typing tips at the end).

Sorry, that method sounds awful to me. I don't want to tap shift twice because, by the time the first tap is finished, I have already pressed the letter. The technique is to tap shift once and just time when you press the letter so that that key gets below the activation point before shift gets back above it. It should feel like you're just pressing the two simultaneously; with practice, your subconscious and/or the keyboard firmware will make sure the order comes out right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Thu, 05 May 2016, 17:42:43
Sorry, that method sounds awful to me. I don't want to tap shift twice because, by the time the first tap is finished, I have already pressed the letter. The technique is to tap shift once and just time when you press the letter so that that key gets below the activation point before shift gets back above it. It should feel like you're just pressing the two simultaneously; with practice, your subconscious and/or the keyboard firmware will make sure the order comes out right.

That still doesn't solve the issue of having to actuate them at roughly the same time, thus, finger gymnastics in some cases, or - as you wrote - practice, or rely on my subconscious (mine is busy thinking about other things than when to release a key). With a sticky shift, I do not have to practice, I can "release" it at my own leasure, and can type more comfortably. I also found it very convenient, when writing a question mark, and then a new sentence: I just don't untoggle it. I don't have to keep it held, nor do I have to actuate it twice, so I even save a keystroke or two!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 17:52:41
If you're not going to hold it down, at least use sticky keys.

Toggle would be even worse than sticky keys
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Thu, 05 May 2016, 18:03:57
If you're not going to hold it down, at least use sticky keys.

Toggle would be even worse than sticky keys

It really isn't. There is very little difference between holding a key, and releasing it at the right moment, and tapping it twice. Except, in the second case, I can tap other keys, or even set up a modifier combo without running out of fingers (hey Emacs!). Ctrl-c, Ctrl-t, Shift-m vs Ctrl, c, t, Ctrl, Shift, m. My fingers like the latter more, key chords are something I always tried to avoid, in favour of key sequences.

My brain finds it easier to press stuff in sequence, than to press combos and release at the right time. Less state to keep in mind, the more space I have for more useful things, so to say. :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 05 May 2016, 18:42:46
If you're not going to hold it down, at least use sticky keys.

Toggle would be even worse than sticky keys

I love holding things down. I would rather hold shift instead of pressing caps lock. Even for whole sentences.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 22:33:59
If you're not going to hold it down, at least use sticky keys.

Toggle would be even worse than sticky keys

I love holding things down. I would rather hold shift instead of pressing caps lock. Even for whole sentences.

Glad I'm not the only one. Unless I'm going to be sending multiple messages in caps, I'll usually just hold down shift :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 05 May 2016, 22:54:48
Sorry, that method sounds awful to me. I don't want to tap shift twice because, by the time the first tap is finished, I have already pressed the letter. The technique is to tap shift once and just time when you press the letter so that that key gets below the activation point before shift gets back above it. It should feel like you're just pressing the two simultaneously; with practice, your subconscious and/or the keyboard firmware will make sure the order comes out right.

That still doesn't solve the issue of having to actuate them at roughly the same time, thus, finger gymnastics


What you call finger gymnastics is just the natural hands dexterity and coordination, that is only missing in people suffering an illness, what you propose is simple against the nature of a healthy human being, if you prefer to do the taps in sequence, against to simultaneously is OK, but pretend that to be the standard is just absurd. Chords are just a natural way to take advantage of an intrinsic ability of human hands.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Fri, 06 May 2016, 01:07:45
Right.

Trackpoints.

(...) I guess I could still see using a stunted keyboard if you spend many hours every day playing FPS and really want to use a conventional mouse for it, despite the ergonomic disadvantages of such a device, but even then, you should still have a TrackPoint too for anything else you might want to do at your computer.
Hahahaha no. Games can be divided into two categories: "mouse > keyboard-only > trackpad" and "keyboard only > mouse > trackpad". And we're not even talking about controllers.

Conveniently, if all keyboards had TrackPoints, then all keycap sets would have compatible G, H, and B keycaps, so there would not be any problems in that regard.
And people that don't want QWERTY caps(which, if you're talking about ergonomics, you should mention) would be screwed. And I don't mean like right now, where they can rearrange keycaps as long as they aren't profiled, I mean completely screwed.

Sometimes people complain about the danger of hitting the TrackPoint by accident. Personally, I'm not convinced that this is real.

I know a guy who sold his Thinkpad just because the trackpad was annoying him way too much.

Having used a custom layout for almost two weeks now, I came to the conclusion that all modifiers should be toggleable: instead of holding down shift, alt, ctrl and the rest, press & release to toggle them on, press again to toggle them off. I found that this makes it much more comfortable to type, and use key chords: I don't have to hold multiple buttons, thus, less gymnastics for the fingers, and I can put the modifiers to a place where toggling them is trivial and fast, but holding them would be a pain in the backside: the thumb cluster on the ErgoDox. As such, I was able to banish the capslock key, as my shift does the same thing, but better (it also shifts the number row too, which caps doesn't).

Best experiment ever. Now I'm convinced this should be the default on every keyboard.

god, this reminds me of the asshats i know who type capital letters by toggling caps lock. they're not toggle-able because it would be annoying as hell to hit shift, press i, and then hit shift again. idk if it works for you, excellent, but this is definitely one of the more unpopular posts in the thread LOL

It really is not annoying. Mentally, you do 3 actions anyway: press shift, tap key, release shift. I do 3 actions too: tap shift, tap key, tap shift. Since my shift is at my thumb, this is really fast, effortless, and less gymnastics for my fingers, since I do not have to hold anything. Apparently, I'm not the only one (http://seanwrona.com/typing.php) (see typing tips at the end).

Come on, does it really take a rhythm game guy to make you see that a "tap" is TWO actions, a press and a release, just without a break inbetween? And Capslock's behaviour with not shifting up numbers is a good thing, if you ever want to type out a serial code or something. Not enough to make it take up the rightful place of control, but still useful enough to keep on a layer or an unused key if you have one.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Air tree on Fri, 06 May 2016, 01:35:51
Flipped spacebar is the most comfortable orientation, no matter the sitting posture, heathens and their inferiority complex who say otherwise should be ridiculed when ever possible.


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 06 May 2016, 01:42:13
Flipped spacebar is the most comfortable orientation, no matter the sitting posture, heathens and their inferiority complex who say otherwise should be ridiculed when ever possible.




sooo you have an abnormal thumb?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Fri, 06 May 2016, 03:16:29
Having used a custom layout for almost two weeks now, I came to the conclusion that all modifiers should be toggleable: instead of holding down shift, alt, ctrl and the rest, press & release to toggle them on, press again to toggle them off. I found that this makes it much more comfortable to type, and use key chords: I don't have to hold multiple buttons, thus, less gymnastics for the fingers, and I can put the modifiers to a place where toggling them is trivial and fast, but holding them would be a pain in the backside: the thumb cluster on the ErgoDox. As such, I was able to banish the capslock key, as my shift does the same thing, but better (it also shifts the number row too, which caps doesn't).

Best experiment ever. Now I'm convinced this should be the default on every keyboard.

god, this reminds me of the asshats i know who type capital letters by toggling caps lock. they're not toggle-able because it would be annoying as hell to hit shift, press i, and then hit shift again. idk if it works for you, excellent, but this is definitely one of the more unpopular posts in the thread LOL

It really is not annoying. Mentally, you do 3 actions anyway: press shift, tap key, release shift. I do 3 actions too: tap shift, tap key, tap shift. Since my shift is at my thumb, this is really fast, effortless, and less gymnastics for my fingers, since I do not have to hold anything. Apparently, I'm not the only one (http://seanwrona.com/typing.php) (see typing tips at the end).

Come on, does it really take a rhythm game guy to make you see that a "tap" is TWO actions, a press and a release, just without a break inbetween? And Capslock's behaviour with not shifting up numbers is a good thing, if you ever want to type out a serial code or something. Not enough to make it take up the rightful place of control, but still useful enough to keep on a layer or an unused key if you have one.

Regarding press & release: yes, it is two actions, but you don't ever have to remember when to release it. So it is a tiny bit different than holding it for a chord, because all your key presses are taps. You do not need to make a difference between tapping and holding.

As for the caps behavior: if I ever need to type serial numbers (I usually copy & paste them instead, since most serial I deal with, I receive electronically anyway), I'll make a layer for it on my keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appleonama on Sat, 07 May 2016, 18:23:34
I think I am starting to love 62g gateron black linears.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 11 May 2016, 01:03:41
logitech k120 feels better than any other keyboard I have ever tried.
seriously, just feel amazing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 11 May 2016, 01:37:10
Caps Lock is overrated
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lohup on Wed, 11 May 2016, 06:20:37
1. I really dislike LED backlighting. I think it looks tacky.
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
3. I like loud switches. If you can't hear them across the room, they're not loud enough.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 11 May 2016, 08:51:00
I kinda like the font Razer uses on their keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 11 May 2016, 09:58:01
Caps Lock is overrated

This is a fact and facts are undisputed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 11 May 2016, 10:08:12
Caps Lock is overrated

This is a fact and facts are undisputed.

OK fine. I think that Caps Lock is overrated. ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 11 May 2016, 11:14:05
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
I don't understand the appeal of ErgoDox in 2016.

It was brilliant in 2013-2014: a custom split mechanical keyboard with a reasonable layout, and you could actually buy the PCBs and cases.

Nowadays though? The process of building custom keyboards is extremely well documented; some mass-produced split mechanical keyboards are readily available (Matias Ergo Pro) or will be quite soon (keyboard.io M01, new kinesis).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tintoret on Wed, 11 May 2016, 11:26:38
Caps Lock is overrated

This is a fact and facts are undisputed.

Dispute! For caps lock to be 'overrated,' it would need to be possible to like caps lock less. Since no one likes caps lock at all, its rating is adequate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 11 May 2016, 11:33:42
Caps Lock is overrated

This is a fact and facts are undisputed.

Dispute! For caps lock to be 'overrated,' it would need to be possible to like caps lock less. Since no one likes caps lock at all, its rating is adequate.

There we go. Ehehe, this is going to be fun *rubs hands together* Oh boy, here we go
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: quadibloc on Wed, 11 May 2016, 11:42:27
I remember using Fujitsu keyboards - they're described as having the worst tactile response ever by many here - and I liked them at the time.

As for Caps Lock: while the functionality is useful, I thought it was the conventional wisdom here, not an unpopular opinion, that the Caps Lock key is not used often enough to justify its conventional placement so close to the active typing area of the keyboard, which leads to it being hit by accident too often.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pwade3 on Wed, 11 May 2016, 12:06:50
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
I don't understand the appeal of ErgoDox in 2016.

It was brilliant in 2013-2014: a custom split mechanical keyboard with a reasonable layout, and you could actually buy the PCBs and cases.

Nowadays though? The process of building custom keyboards is extremely well documented; some mass-produced split mechanical keyboards are readily available (Matias Ergo Pro) or will be quite soon (keyboard.io M01, new kinesis).

Just because a mass-produced version is available doesn't mean people won't do a custom.

That's like saying I should've just bought a Leopold instead of a Clueboard or everyone should buy Pok3rs instead of whichever custom 60% is hot at any given moment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 11 May 2016, 13:09:38
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
I don't understand the appeal of ErgoDox in 2016.

It was brilliant in 2013-2014: a custom split mechanical keyboard with a reasonable layout, and you could actually buy the PCBs and cases.

Nowadays though? The process of building custom keyboards is extremely well documented; some mass-produced split mechanical keyboards are readily available (Matias Ergo Pro) or will be quite soon (keyboard.io M01, new kinesis).

Just because a mass-produced version is available doesn't mean people won't do a custom.

That's like saying I should've just bought a Leopold instead of a Clueboard or everyone should buy Pok3rs instead of whichever custom 60% is hot at any given moment.
Documentation, tools and parts are much better than a few years ago. Building a truly custom keyboard with a much better layout than the ErgoDox is much easier these days.

OTOH, mass-produced plastic molds beat acrylic/layers in terms of case quality, if one wants to keep it around the $200 budget for a complete split keyboard. Out-of-the-box tenting solutions (Kinesis, Matias) win too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Wed, 11 May 2016, 15:17:02
Modding a HHKB with 55G domes is a sin.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Keycap on Wed, 11 May 2016, 15:28:43
I really like domes. A lot.

I've talked about this in the keyboard confession thread but I'm really wondering if I'm going insane or something. And no, it doesn't seem like a phase. I've been like this for the past 9-10 months.

I really like BTC domes the best, but NMB domes are good too. And every single PC Concepts keyboard that I've tried has had this very snappy keyfeel. Something you just do not find at all on tactile switches. IMO, if you want to generate tactility, domes are where it's at.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Wed, 11 May 2016, 15:39:54
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
I don't understand the appeal of ErgoDox in 2016.

It was brilliant in 2013-2014: a custom split mechanical keyboard with a reasonable layout, and you could actually buy the PCBs and cases.

Nowadays though? The process of building custom keyboards is extremely well documented; some mass-produced split mechanical keyboards are readily available (Matias Ergo Pro) or will be quite soon (keyboard.io M01, new kinesis).

I don't understand the appeal of building a custom keyboard, nor do I understand why one should wait for some keyboard that will come Someday(tm), instead of buying one NOW (and still buy the future one too, because we buy keyboards anyway). I do not understand why people think that a thumbcluster-less keyboard would be an adequate alternative to the ErgoDox.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pwade3 on Wed, 11 May 2016, 15:52:38
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
I don't understand the appeal of ErgoDox in 2016.

It was brilliant in 2013-2014: a custom split mechanical keyboard with a reasonable layout, and you could actually buy the PCBs and cases.

Nowadays though? The process of building custom keyboards is extremely well documented; some mass-produced split mechanical keyboards are readily available (Matias Ergo Pro) or will be quite soon (keyboard.io M01, new kinesis).

I don't understand the appeal of building a custom keyboard [...]

Some people like putting things together, or they just want something super specific in a board.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheddarbek on Wed, 11 May 2016, 16:27:09
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
I don't understand the appeal of ErgoDox in 2016.

It was brilliant in 2013-2014: a custom split mechanical keyboard with a reasonable layout, and you could actually buy the PCBs and cases.

Nowadays though? The process of building custom keyboards is extremely well documented; some mass-produced split mechanical keyboards are readily available (Matias Ergo Pro) or will be quite soon (keyboard.io M01, new kinesis).

I don't understand the appeal of building a custom keyboard [...]

Some people like putting things together, or they just want something super specific in a board.

Building customs is the entire reason I'm in this hobby. After I built my first custom (my daily driver) I didn't need any more. The custom I have at home, and the AEKII I have at work perfectly fulfill my needs. I have this hobby and I keep buying boards because I legitimately enjoy building them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Wed, 11 May 2016, 16:32:17
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
I don't understand the appeal of ErgoDox in 2016.

It was brilliant in 2013-2014: a custom split mechanical keyboard with a reasonable layout, and you could actually buy the PCBs and cases.

Nowadays though? The process of building custom keyboards is extremely well documented; some mass-produced split mechanical keyboards are readily available (Matias Ergo Pro) or will be quite soon (keyboard.io M01, new kinesis).

I don't understand the appeal of building a custom keyboard [...]

Some people like putting things together, or they just want something super specific in a board.

I'd rather pay someone to do that for me, if I ever end up unsatisfied with what is readily avaliable. In the end, that will come out cheaper, faster, and with better quality.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 11 May 2016, 21:20:14
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
I don't understand the appeal of ErgoDox in 2016.

It was brilliant in 2013-2014: a custom split mechanical keyboard with a reasonable layout, and you could actually buy the PCBs and cases.

Nowadays though? The process of building custom keyboards is extremely well documented; some mass-produced split mechanical keyboards are readily available (Matias Ergo Pro) or will be quite soon (keyboard.io M01, new kinesis).

I don't understand the appeal of building a custom keyboard, nor do I understand why one should wait for some keyboard that will come Someday(tm), instead of buying one NOW (and still buy the future one too, because we buy keyboards anyway). I do not understand why people think that a thumbcluster-less keyboard would be an adequate alternative to the ErgoDox.
Simple: layout. Stock ErgoDox thumb clusters are *very* far from great.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 11 May 2016, 21:36:59
There are keyboard's users, collectors and creators, they have different mind sets regarding keyboards, they do not match, they do not mix and they cannot agree. Some are in two, or even three categories at once though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 11 May 2016, 22:02:45
There are keyboard's users, collectors and creators, they have different mind sets regarding keyboards, they do not match, they do not mix and they cannot agree. Some are in two, or even three categories at once though.


If you want true confusion, try convincing 4 women in one shoe store to buy ONE model of shoe, it will NEVER happen in this life time or the next.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Thu, 12 May 2016, 02:17:12
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
I don't understand the appeal of ErgoDox in 2016.

It was brilliant in 2013-2014: a custom split mechanical keyboard with a reasonable layout, and you could actually buy the PCBs and cases.

Nowadays though? The process of building custom keyboards is extremely well documented; some mass-produced split mechanical keyboards are readily available (Matias Ergo Pro) or will be quite soon (keyboard.io M01, new kinesis).

I don't understand the appeal of building a custom keyboard, nor do I understand why one should wait for some keyboard that will come Someday(tm), instead of buying one NOW (and still buy the future one too, because we buy keyboards anyway). I do not understand why people think that a thumbcluster-less keyboard would be an adequate alternative to the ErgoDox.
Simple: layout. Stock ErgoDox thumb clusters are *very* far from great.

I understand why another keyboard with a better thumb cluster would be an alternative (eg, the keyboardio M01). But the Matias Ergo Pro does NOT have a thumb cluster at all, and the Kinesis isn't split, so they're very far from being viable alternatives. I'd rather have the thumb cluster of the ErgoDox than none.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 12 May 2016, 08:11:53
Modding a HHKB with 55G domes is a sin.

This exactly this
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JigsawSaint on Thu, 12 May 2016, 09:43:04
Every POM/PBT backlit keycap that I've seen has been designed and/or created incorrectly.
- If ABS backlit keycaps have their legends at the top 1/2 of the keycap so BOTH characters can be illuminated, why don't we have POM/PBT keycaps with similar legend formats? 
-- Side by Side vs Over/Under.  Over/Under format causes the character on bottom to remain 'dark' on nearly every backlit keyboard.

I do concur with others that have stated that 'full rows of artisan keycaps' look like tacky trash. 

ABS keycaps need to just go away.  When I get a new board, I order a new set of PBT keycaps almost immediately if the board doesn't already come with them.
- No, it really doesn't matter that the ABS caps are doubleshot or tripleshot or 'omg they look like some high-end old-school keyset'.  They are still inferior.

In 2016, we still haven't solved the issue with fast global shipping?  Why does it take 3-4 weeks for everything that I order from China or South Korea to arrive?  5-10 days should be the absolute maximum for delivery time.
- This is especially true when I'm waiting for a new Leopold, Filco, Varmilo, or Ducky.

Where the hell are all of the front facing (aka - sideprint) backlit POM/PBT keycaps at? 

I hate mixing my keyboard and mouse brands.  Bugs the hell out of me when I can't get a mouse product from the same company/brand that made my keyboard. 
- PBT mouse by Ducky (Secret) was a good step in the right direction, but I'd love to see more companies follow suit.

Cherry MX White switches = quality control nightmare?  Are cherry mx white switches really some form of lubrication ninja magic?  Why isn't there a clear and definitive answer to the reported irregularity/sporadic performance issue of this switch type? 

I hate that there isn't a click switch somewhere between Cherry MX blue and green. 

That's a good start....



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Keycap on Thu, 12 May 2016, 11:05:27
ABS keycaps need to just go away.  When I get a new board, I order a new set of PBT keycaps almost immediately if the board doesn't already come with them.
- No, it really doesn't matter that the ABS caps are doubleshot or tripleshot or 'omg they look like some high-end old-school keyset'.  They are still inferior.
Although I certainly agree with you that artisans are horrendously ugly and tacky, I don't see why ABS should just "go away". I like ABS a lot because the texture is soft, not rough and gritty like PBT. I do like PBT, but ABS really has its places as well. Don't tell me that PBT is shine resistant, either. I have some keycaps on a 14-year-old Unicomp that are far shinier than any ABS set that I own.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 12 May 2016, 11:28:36
ABS keycaps need to just go away.  When I get a new board, I order a new set of PBT keycaps almost immediately if the board doesn't already come with them.
- No, it really doesn't matter that the ABS caps are doubleshot or tripleshot or 'omg they look like some high-end old-school keyset'.  They are still inferior.
Although I certainly agree with you that artisans are horrendously ugly and tacky, I don't see why ABS should just "go away". I like ABS a lot because the texture is soft, not rough and gritty like PBT. I do like PBT, but ABS really has its places as well. Don't tell me that PBT is shine resistant, either. I have some keycaps on a 14-year-old Unicomp that are far shinier than any ABS set that I own.

You can begin a campaign 'ala Trump style' to promote that no one buy ABS key caps anymore, when that happens ABS key caps will go away, due to lack of market; but, until that happens I do not think that manufacturers will stop production any time soon, just because you wrote your opinion here.

We can start the usual interchange of pros/cons lists to justify our preferences on key caps; but, that is entirely unnecessary, because, everyone buys whatever they want. In my case I am very happy with my OG Cherry sets and I really do not care about opinions, at the end, all that counts is my very own enjoyment of the daily typing experience, which cannot be any better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JigsawSaint on Fri, 13 May 2016, 01:38:59
Well, the thread is titled 'Unpopular Keyboard Opinions'  :)  Was trying to contribute to keep the thread going. 

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 13 May 2016, 02:08:15
Blackwidow tournament edition is a nice keyboard
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 13 May 2016, 05:56:43
ABS keycaps need to just go away.  When I get a new board, I order a new set of PBT keycaps almost immediately if the board doesn't already come with them.
- No, it really doesn't matter that the ABS caps are doubleshot or tripleshot or 'omg they look like some high-end old-school keyset'.  They are still inferior.
Although I certainly agree with you that artisans are horrendously ugly and tacky, I don't see why ABS should just "go away". I like ABS a lot because the texture is soft, not rough and gritty like PBT. I do like PBT, but ABS really has its places as well. Don't tell me that PBT is shine resistant, either. I have some keycaps on a 14-year-old Unicomp that are far shinier than any ABS set that I own.
Neither is quite correct.

The texture doesn't really depend on the material. Take PBT caps, for example: DSA is very rough; hellgrau Cherry caps aren't rough, but feel "dry"; Vortex PBT caps aren't even that dry—in fact, I find them rather smooth; at the end of the spectrum, inner parts and even sides of IBM/Unicomp Model M caps are completely smooth and even glossy out of the box.

PBT is absolutely more sweat-resistant then ABS, although it's still possible to wear them out; it's quite common on second-hand hellgrau Cherry G80s from German stores, typically used for about 5 years all day long every day. The real problem with PBT is that it's rather brittle, though. (And warped larger keys are another common concern.)

Regardless, more POM keycaps would always be nice. They're typically smooth and much more durable than both ABS and PBT.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 13 May 2016, 06:09:19
But the Matias Ergo Pro does NOT have a thumb cluster at all
Yeah, and not everyone needs thumb clusters (esp. too far out) or wants to get used a completely new physical layout. That option didn't exist a few years back, but it does not.

the Kinesis isn't split, so they're very far from being viable alternatives
Kinesis Freestyle is completely split, and a version with Cherry MX might pop up eventually; speaking of that, the soft domes in the current freestyle are supposedly comparable to goldtouch's, which are excellent. The V3 kit, that was originally meant for it, is one of the best solutions to tent other keyboards, including the ErgoDox.

Kinesis Advantage provides hand separation too, although it's fixed at average shoulder width—one size doesn't fit all, but OTOH the single-piece design is much more convenient in other ways (no dealing with interconnection, typing on the lap, moving around)… the IBM M15's and keyboard.io M01's ability to bind both halves into one piece is very nice.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Fri, 13 May 2016, 06:57:28
But the Matias Ergo Pro does NOT have a thumb cluster at all
Yeah, and not everyone needs thumb clusters (esp. too far out) or wants to get used a completely new physical layout. That option didn't exist a few years back, but it does not.

I believe that those who still want an ErgoDox in 2016 do want a thumb cluster, and a completely new physical layout is ok with them too. That obviously does not cover everyone, just those who want an ErgoDox now. As for the thumb clusters, I'm ok with them. Not perfect, but I can reach the two big buttons effortlessly, and the rest I use rarely enough that a bit of hand movement to reach them is fine.

the Kinesis isn't split, so they're very far from being viable alternatives
Kinesis Freestyle is completely split, and a version with Cherry MX might pop up eventually;

So a split, mechanical Kinesis is not available as of this writing. The Freestyle also lacks the wells, and as such, quickly looses its appeal for me.

Kinesis Advantage provides hand separation too, although it's fixed at average shoulder width—one size doesn't fit all, but OTOH the single-piece design is much more convenient in other ways (no dealing with interconnection, typing on the lap, moving around)… the IBM M15's and keyboard.io M01's ability to bind both halves into one piece is very nice.

I'm not going to use a keyboard I can't split. My mouse is in the middle, and it will stay there. A split keyboard also allows me to type one-handed, and mouse with the other. It allows me to position the halves in any way I want: I can put one further away, if I happen to sit partially with my side to the table, which happens when I talk to people, and still want to type (to take notes, for example), without looking at the screen. With a non-split, that's considerably harder to do.

So, in short, there are cases where the ErgoDox, even today, in 2016, has no viable alternatives readily avaliable, and thus its appeal remains. Is it for everyone? Hell no. But there are cases where you have nothing better. Granted, you could always do a custom, but I don't have the skills, the time, the tools, the motivation, or the will to do that, nor do I have the energy to find and pay someone twice the money I paid for my ErgoDox EZ, to build me something marginally better, without warranty.

The ErgoDox's appeal is that it ticks enough boxes on my checklist to be worth it, and is readily available. It doesn't have to be perfect to be appealing. It just has to be better than any of the alternatives, for a specific person and their use-cases.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 13 May 2016, 07:18:08
It is interesting to read about the experiences and uses of the ergodox; but, how someone can take notes with one hand, while at the phone on one half of a key board, only? LOL. Well, the passion comes in the middle of the logic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 13 May 2016, 07:31:04
It is interesting to read about the experiences and uses of the ergodox; but, how someone can take notes with one hand, while at the phone on one half of a key board, only? LOL. Well, the passion comes in the middle of the logic.

I'm a little confused as to why that would be a problem, don't most folks wear some kind of blue tooth headset if they're transcribing the words of someone from a phone call?

I wish I could open the source files for the Infinity Ergodox case. I can open the stl files for the original Ergodox just fine :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:07:43
It is interesting to read about the experiences and uses of the ergodox; but, how someone can take notes with one hand, while at the phone on one half of a key board, only? LOL. Well, the passion comes in the middle of the logic.

In my case, no phone is involved, but people tend to gather around my desk and we brainstorm, with me taking notes. There are a number of one-handed layouts that get you all the keys you need, on one hand, but you'll have to use a modifier, most often. For example, on my - currently very experimental - one-handed layer, the right side is available after hitting a toggle key. So "hello world" is typed like this: "OeYYo JoPYA" the shifted chars are what they'd be on the right side, assuming a Dvorak layout. I lose a number of things, like shift, backspace, and entering symbols becomes a bit of an awkward dance, but for what I need it for, it works remarkably well, and will improve as I get more comfortable with the keyboard, and tweak the layout further.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:15:04
HHKB layout is garbage.

Full layout with corners for life
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pwade3 on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:22:42
Blackwidow tournament edition is a nice keyboard

Two of my coworkers have one and they both seem to be very happy with them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:50:01
It is interesting to read about the experiences and uses of the ergodox; but, how someone can take notes with one hand, while at the phone on one half of a key board, only? LOL. Well, the passion comes in the middle of the logic.

In my case, no phone is involved, but people tend to gather around my desk and we brainstorm, with me taking notes. There are a number of one-handed layouts that get you all the keys you need, on one hand, but you'll have to use a modifier, most often. For example, on my - currently very experimental - one-handed layer, the right side is available after hitting a toggle key. So "hello world" is typed like this: "OeYYo JoPYA" the shifted chars are what they'd be on the right side, assuming a Dvorak layout. I lose a number of things, like shift, backspace, and entering symbols becomes a bit of an awkward dance, but for what I need it for, it works remarkably well, and will improve as I get more comfortable with the keyboard, and tweak the layout further.

Get a Matias keyboard for six hundred dollars.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:13:16
It is interesting to read about the experiences and uses of the ergodox; but, how someone can take notes with one hand, while at the phone on one half of a key board, only? LOL. Well, the passion comes in the middle of the logic.

In my case, no phone is involved, but people tend to gather around my desk and we brainstorm, with me taking notes. There are a number of one-handed layouts that get you all the keys you need, on one hand, but you'll have to use a modifier, most often. For example, on my - currently very experimental - one-handed layer, the right side is available after hitting a toggle key. So "hello world" is typed like this: "OeYYo JoPYA" the shifted chars are what they'd be on the right side, assuming a Dvorak layout. I lose a number of things, like shift, backspace, and entering symbols becomes a bit of an awkward dance, but for what I need it for, it works remarkably well, and will improve as I get more comfortable with the keyboard, and tweak the layout further.

Get a Matias keyboard for six hundred dollars.

No, thanks. My $300 ErgoDox EZ is perfectly adequate for the task, and I can always switch back to two-handed mode, once the people go away.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:15:10
It is interesting to read about the experiences and uses of the ergodox; but, how someone can take notes with one hand, while at the phone on one half of a key board, only? LOL. Well, the passion comes in the middle of the logic.

In my case, no phone is involved, but people tend to gather around my desk and we brainstorm, with me taking notes. There are a number of one-handed layouts that get you all the keys you need, on one hand, but you'll have to use a modifier, most often. For example, on my - currently very experimental - one-handed layer, the right side is available after hitting a toggle key. So "hello world" is typed like this: "OeYYo JoPYA" the shifted chars are what they'd be on the right side, assuming a Dvorak layout. I lose a number of things, like shift, backspace, and entering symbols becomes a bit of an awkward dance, but for what I need it for, it works remarkably well, and will improve as I get more comfortable with the keyboard, and tweak the layout further.

Get a Matias keyboard for six hundred dollars.

No, thanks. My $300 ErgoDox EZ is perfectly adequate for the task, and I can always switch back to two-handed mode, once the people go away.

Sick hundred dolla are too much dolla, I always like the concept of the Matias half, but I do not understand the logic of the pricing scheme, it should cost under $30 bucks to manufacture.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:38:16
Supply/demand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 13 May 2016, 10:26:28
Supply/demand.

I suppose the M-Half does have no demand or very low; thus, the high price is to recover tooling costs as soon as possible, so each buyer may be sharing a significant amount of the investment for molds and assembly fixtures.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 13 May 2016, 16:57:58
More like keeping the supply, i.e. production running. IIRC it used to be cheaper back when there was more demand (note that the halfkeyboard is nothing new).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 13 May 2016, 17:11:35
2. I don't understand the appeal of Ergodox.
I don't understand the appeal of ErgoDox in 2016.

It was brilliant in 2013-2014: a custom split mechanical keyboard with a reasonable layout, and you could actually buy the PCBs and cases.

Nowadays though? The process of building custom keyboards is extremely well documented; some mass-produced split mechanical keyboards are readily available (Matias Ergo Pro) or will be quite soon (keyboard.io M01, new kinesis).

I don't understand the appeal of building a custom keyboard, nor do I understand why one should wait for some keyboard that will come Someday(tm), instead of buying one NOW (and still buy the future one too, because we buy keyboards anyway). I do not understand why people think that a thumbcluster-less keyboard would be an adequate alternative to the ErgoDox.

As soon as Kenisis can get the mech Freestyle out, I'll likely snag one and try to build a case for it to turn it into basically an MS Ergo board with MX compatible switches.  If MS ever made one, I'd buy at least two or three to make sure I always have one ready to use.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: knightjp on Thu, 19 May 2016, 03:54:07
I'm gonna be properly unpopular here and say that I love my Apple MB110LL/B. I've tried out the Razor Mechanical Gaming Keyboards and I feel that the key travel is far too much. The Apple has the perfect feel for my fingers.

(http://store.storeimages.cdn-apple.com/4973/as-images.apple.com/is/image/AppleInc/aos/published/images/M/B1/MB110LL/MB110LL?wid=572&hei=572&fmt=jpeg&qlt=95&op_sharpen=0&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.5,0.5,0,0&iccEmbed=0&layer=comp&.v=SEKkz2)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 19 May 2016, 05:47:05
I'm gonna be properly unpopular here and say that I love my Apple MB110LL/B. I've tried out the Razor Mechanical Gaming Keyboards and I feel that the key travel is far too much. The Apple has the perfect feel for my fingers.

Show Image
(http://store.storeimages.cdn-apple.com/4973/as-images.apple.com/is/image/AppleInc/aos/published/images/M/B1/MB110LL/MB110LL?wid=572&hei=572&fmt=jpeg&qlt=95&op_sharpen=0&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.5,0.5,0,0&iccEmbed=0&layer=comp&.v=SEKkz2)


I mean yeah. If you hate your finger tips this keyboard is perfect.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 19 May 2016, 07:48:42
at knightjp: If you are happy with an out of the shelf apple keyboard, it does not make sense that you invest time in a site devoted to the input devices you do not need, nor like. I'd say, the comment is not unpopular, it is just insane, or more precisely, it is schizophrenic. (schizophrenia: a mental disorder characterized by an abnormal interpretation of reality, a mix of hallucinations and delusions).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 19 May 2016, 07:56:36
I'm gonna be properly unpopular here and say that I love my Apple MB110LL/B. I've tried out the Razor Mechanical Gaming Keyboards and I feel that the key travel is far too much. The Apple has the perfect feel for my fingers.

Show Image
(http://store.storeimages.cdn-apple.com/4973/as-images.apple.com/is/image/AppleInc/aos/published/images/M/B1/MB110LL/MB110LL?wid=572&hei=572&fmt=jpeg&qlt=95&op_sharpen=0&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.5,0.5,0,0&iccEmbed=0&layer=comp&.v=SEKkz2)

Why are you here again?
LOL

Sent from my fingers at a local payphone

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Thu, 19 May 2016, 08:00:48
at knightjp: If you are happy with an out of the shelf apple keyboard, it does not make sense that you invest time in a site devoted to the input devices you do not need, nor like. I'd say, the comment is not unpopular, it is just insane, or more precisely, it is schizophrenic. (schizophrenia: a mental disorder characterized by an abnormal interpretation of reality, a mix of hallucinations and delusions).

In light of this, I would like to share another possibly unpopular opinion of mine: it is entirely okay to be enthusiastic about keyboards, admire all the good stuff on here and elsewhere, yet, still prefer non-mechs. My wife, for example, loves when I babble about keyboards, show them pictures I saw here, describe how I tweaked my ErgoDox firmware today, what I plan to do next with it, and so on. She is even happy to offer insight, as an outside observer, and many a times, she saw things in my ideas I did not, and that was incredibly helpful.

Yet, she'd never type on a mech. It's not her thing, and that little typing she does, is more comfortable for her on a rubberdome or touch-screen keyboard. That does not change, or lower her interest in how I and other people use their keyboards. She has no interest in learning to touch-type, she'll hunt and peck forever, and that's fine. For her, mechs have an awful lot of key travel, because she'll mash the keys and bottom out as on a rubberdome. And the sound! No amount of lube, o-rings or anything will make a mech as quiet as her touchscreen keyboard (which she uses with one hand mostly, anyway).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 19 May 2016, 08:41:16
at knightjp: If you are happy with an out of the shelf apple keyboard, it does not make sense that you invest time in a site devoted to the input devices you do not need, nor like. I'd say, the comment is not unpopular, it is just insane, or more precisely, it is schizophrenic. (schizophrenia: a mental disorder characterized by an abnormal interpretation of reality, a mix of hallucinations and delusions).

In light of this, I would like to share another possibly unpopular opinion of mine: it is entirely okay to be enthusiastic about keyboards, admire all the good stuff on here and elsewhere, yet, still prefer non-mechs. My wife, for example, loves when I babble about keyboards, show them pictures I saw here, describe how I tweaked my ErgoDox firmware today, what I plan to do next with it, and so on. She is even happy to offer insight, as an outside observer, and many a times, she saw things in my ideas I did not, and that was incredibly helpful.

Yet, she'd never type on a mech. It's not her thing, and that little typing she does, is more comfortable for her on a rubberdome or touch-screen keyboard. That does not change, or lower her interest in how I and other people use their keyboards. She has no interest in learning to touch-type, she'll hunt and peck forever, and that's fine. For her, mechs have an awful lot of key travel, because she'll mash the keys and bottom out as on a rubberdome. And the sound! No amount of lube, o-rings or anything will make a mech as quiet as her touchscreen keyboard (which she uses with one hand mostly, anyway).

A "thoughtful" explanation on her "weird" behavior: She loves you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Thu, 19 May 2016, 08:50:41
at knightjp: If you are happy with an out of the shelf apple keyboard, it does not make sense that you invest time in a site devoted to the input devices you do not need, nor like. I'd say, the comment is not unpopular, it is just insane, or more precisely, it is schizophrenic. (schizophrenia: a mental disorder characterized by an abnormal interpretation of reality, a mix of hallucinations and delusions).

In light of this, I would like to share another possibly unpopular opinion of mine: it is entirely okay to be enthusiastic about keyboards, admire all the good stuff on here and elsewhere, yet, still prefer non-mechs. My wife, for example, loves when I babble about keyboards, show them pictures I saw here, describe how I tweaked my ErgoDox firmware today, what I plan to do next with it, and so on. She is even happy to offer insight, as an outside observer, and many a times, she saw things in my ideas I did not, and that was incredibly helpful.

Yet, she'd never type on a mech. It's not her thing, and that little typing she does, is more comfortable for her on a rubberdome or touch-screen keyboard. That does not change, or lower her interest in how I and other people use their keyboards. She has no interest in learning to touch-type, she'll hunt and peck forever, and that's fine. For her, mechs have an awful lot of key travel, because she'll mash the keys and bottom out as on a rubberdome. And the sound! No amount of lube, o-rings or anything will make a mech as quiet as her touchscreen keyboard (which she uses with one hand mostly, anyway).

A "thoughtful" explanation on her "weird" behavior: She loves you.

Doesn't change the fact that there are reasons one can be enthusiastic about a hobby, while not having that hobby herself. Another example: I love reading about custom keyboards, seeing pictures, build logs and whatnot. Yet, I have absolutely no desire to build anything, even though the best threads I read on here, are about building. I have watched more build videos I can count. But there's no way I'd build anything myself. Nor do I understand why other people find it interesting - but I'm glad they do, because they provide me with hours of entertainment.

In a similar way, someone who prefers non-mechs may still enjoy looking at the mech world from outside. Like you look at, say, fish, without the desire to become one. Or athletics, without any motivation to do more than walk to work.

What I'm trying to say, is that you can be a fan of a hobby, without having the same hobby yourself. And there's nothing wrong or strange with that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 19 May 2016, 09:07:48
at knightjp: If you are happy with an out of the shelf apple keyboard, it does not make sense that you invest time in a site devoted to the input devices you do not need, nor like. I'd say, the comment is not unpopular, it is just insane, or more precisely, it is schizophrenic. (schizophrenia: a mental disorder characterized by an abnormal interpretation of reality, a mix of hallucinations and delusions).

In light of this, I would like to share another possibly unpopular opinion of mine: it is entirely okay to be enthusiastic about keyboards, admire all the good stuff on here and elsewhere, yet, still prefer non-mechs. My wife, for example, loves when I babble about keyboards, show them pictures I saw here, describe how I tweaked my ErgoDox firmware today, what I plan to do next with it, and so on. She is even happy to offer insight, as an outside observer, and many a times, she saw things in my ideas I did not, and that was incredibly helpful.

Yet, she'd never type on a mech. It's not her thing, and that little typing she does, is more comfortable for her on a rubberdome or touch-screen keyboard. That does not change, or lower her interest in how I and other people use their keyboards. She has no interest in learning to touch-type, she'll hunt and peck forever, and that's fine. For her, mechs have an awful lot of key travel, because she'll mash the keys and bottom out as on a rubberdome. And the sound! No amount of lube, o-rings or anything will make a mech as quiet as her touchscreen keyboard (which she uses with one hand mostly, anyway).

A "thoughtful" explanation on her "weird" behavior: She loves you.

Doesn't change the fact that there are reasons one can be enthusiastic about a hobby, while not having that hobby herself. Another example: I love reading about custom keyboards, seeing pictures, build logs and whatnot. Yet, I have absolutely no desire to build anything, even though the best threads I read on here, are about building. I have watched more build videos I can count. But there's no way I'd build anything myself. Nor do I understand why other people find it interesting - but I'm glad they do, because they provide me with hours of entertainment.

In a similar way, someone who prefers non-mechs may still enjoy looking at the mech world from outside. Like you look at, say, fish, without the desire to become one. Or athletics, without any motivation to do more than walk to work.

What I'm trying to say, is that you can be a fan of a hobby, without having the same hobby yourself. And there's nothing wrong or strange with that.

You should agree that your wife example just demonstrates her interest in you, not in the hobby, she will be interested in anything that interests you, because of you. In the other hand, different levels of involvement in a hobby are always there and can live together in harmony, in mechanicals, it is easy to recognized the user, the collector and the maker, maybe, even a voyeur; but, while the first three are actual keyboard aficionados, just with different levels of involvement, the fourth has some sort of insanity involved, a similar kind, to that of males that are interest in women heels. :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Thu, 19 May 2016, 09:11:06
I get it.

I'm a fan of stanced cars but I personally wouldn't do it to my own car.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Thu, 19 May 2016, 12:24:03
the model m is overrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: y11971alex on Thu, 19 May 2016, 13:01:39
Model F are overrated.  Beamsprings are overrated.  Topre are overrated.

/thread :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 19 May 2016, 13:28:04
I was literally going to post that "Buckling springs are overrated" but you guys beat me to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:28:36
Unpopular opinions:
- I DO NOT want the loudest keyboard possible so I sound like the computer equivalent of Harley riders with huge exhausts farting down the street.
- I want a keyboard I can use around other people.
- I don't care if the keyboard costs $5 or $200, as long as it's of benefit to me.
- I don't even care if it's blue, red, pink, green or black.

This is what I think mechanical keyboard conventions are like:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HeeCh2ei on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:36:20
Topre are underrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:37:22
Topre are underrated.

This is not unpopular, it is just funny, joke funny.  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HeeCh2ei on Sat, 21 May 2016, 14:07:45
Topre are underrated.

This is not unpopular, it is just funny, joke funny.  :))
Ok.
I thought case mounting is huge compromise to the HHKB construction philosophy. They should be PCB monuted, but conspiracy of Topre can't allow it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sat, 21 May 2016, 14:20:43
Topre are underrated.

This is not unpopular, it is just funny, joke funny.  :))
Ok.
I thought case mounting is huge compromise to the HHKB construction philosophy. They should be PCB monuted, but conspiracy of Topre can't allow it.

And now exactly would you pcb mount topre domes?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HeeCh2ei on Sat, 21 May 2016, 14:26:16
Topre are underrated.

This is not unpopular, it is just funny, joke funny.  :))
Ok.
I thought case mounting is huge compromise to the HHKB construction philosophy. They should be PCB monuted, but conspiracy of Topre can't allow it.

And now exactly would you pcb mount topre domes?

In the edges of the slider housing there will be metal pins, which simply soldered into the pcb.
Or the same way as cherry pcb stabilizers - the screws.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 23 May 2016, 10:51:08
And now exactly would you pcb mount topre domes?

With gaffer tape ob duh. There ain't nothing that gaffer tape can't stick together
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HeeCh2ei on Sun, 05 June 2016, 09:48:18
I think AZERTY layout has its roots in the AZERbaijan and this is why they sounds similar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 05 June 2016, 12:21:31
If you want to make a space-saving keyboard you should trim the padding to make it a space-saving keyboard. I can understand the padding of vintage keyboards but a keyboard made in 2016 shouldn't have MORE padding in the design if it's a 'space-saving' model. DSI..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 05 June 2016, 13:00:02
"space saving keyboards" are a great way of selling less for more. give it a new name, market it as being hip and voila $$$$
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HeeCh2ei on Sun, 05 June 2016, 13:24:11
"space saving keyboards" are a great way of selling less for more. give it a new name, market it as being hip and voila $$$$
Are there any upcoming trends on the space wasting keyboards?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 05 June 2016, 13:35:57
"space saving keyboards" are a great way of selling less for more. give it a new name, market it as being hip and voila $$$$
Are there any upcoming trends on the space wasting keyboards?

The space wasting keyboard.
Just a desk with a keyboard built into it.
Only it has a slight angle, and renders the desk basically useless.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 05 June 2016, 13:45:05
The Ultra Compact Modern Case F62 Model F Keyboard – “Kishsaver” looks good imo
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Sun, 05 June 2016, 13:46:09
"space saving keyboards" are a great way of selling less for more. give it a new name, market it as being hip and voila $$$$

Specialty manufacturers love selling less for more.

Another popular strategy: take a keyboard, remove some of the features commonly mentioned in "gamer" marketing, add nothing whatsoever in return, increase the price, sell to "enthusiasts," and laugh all the way to the bank as they aim to defend their purchases on the basis of "quality".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 05 June 2016, 16:51:29
Another popular strategy: take a keyboard, remove some of the features commonly mentioned in "gamer" marketing, add nothing whatsoever in return, increase the price, sell to "enthusiasts," and laugh all the way to the bank as they aim to defend their purchases on the basis of "quality".

*cough*ducky?*cough*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 05 June 2016, 19:40:01
cherry sucks ass
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 05 June 2016, 19:41:37
The Ultra Compact Modern Case F62 Model F Keyboard – “Kishsaver” looks good imo
I dont think this is unpopular, I like it too
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 06 June 2016, 07:01:52
"space saving keyboards" are a great way of selling less for more. give it a new name, market it as being hip and voila $$$$
Are there any upcoming trends on the space wasting keyboards?

The space wasting keyboard.
Just a desk with a keyboard built into it.
Only it has a slight angle, and renders the desk basically useless.

BRB, patenting this.  :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Mon, 06 June 2016, 07:26:11
I think a 30% keyboard is a feasible everyday keyboard to use. 

(26 letters, Enter, FN, Backspace, Space, Shift, and everything else on FN layers.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 06 June 2016, 07:29:13
I think a 30% keyboard is a feasible everyday keyboard to use. 

(26 letters, Enter, FN, Backspace, Space, Shift, and everything else on FN layers.)

Pure evil.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Mon, 06 June 2016, 07:38:43
I think a 30% keyboard is a feasible everyday keyboard to use. 

(26 letters, Enter, FN, Backspace, Space, Shift, and everything else on FN layers.)

Pure evil.

That's pretty much all I really use. :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 06 June 2016, 07:46:26
I think a 30% keyboard is a feasible everyday keyboard to use. 

(26 letters, Enter, FN, Backspace, Space, Shift, and everything else on FN layers.)
I've thought about this, but realistically, it doesn't make sense.

Punctuation is too common to be skipped, at least two of them are way too common.
OTOH, Enter and Backspace could be skipped—you can use Control sequences in software instead, provided the software isn't MS Windows.
That puts you to 28 symbols, spacebar and Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Fn modifiers. Realistically though, the modifiers should be mirrored to avoid weird hand contortions. Moreover, there should be more modifiers to get all expected symbols/functions: if you count only non-letter symbols present on US QWERTY's primary layer, that's already ~26 (digits + special punctuation).
However, with enough chording it's getting closer to a chording keyboard. Then you don't even need one key per letter.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 06 June 2016, 07:53:52
I think a 30% keyboard is a feasible everyday keyboard to use. 

(26 letters, Enter, FN, Backspace, Space, Shift, and everything else on FN layers.)
Thats disgusting. I have trouble using my 60% every day :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Mon, 06 June 2016, 08:05:21
I think a 30% keyboard is a feasible everyday keyboard to use. 

(26 letters, Enter, FN, Backspace, Space, Shift, and everything else on FN layers.)
I've thought about this, but realistically, it doesn't make sense.

Punctuation is too common to be skipped, at least two of them are way too common.
OTOH, Enter and Backspace could be skipped—you can use Control sequences in software instead, provided the software isn't MS Windows.
That puts you to 28 symbols, spacebar and Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Fn modifiers. Realistically though, the modifiers should be mirrored to avoid weird hand contortions. Moreover, there should be more modifiers to get all expected symbols/functions: if you count only non-letter symbols present on US QWERTY's primary layer, that's already ~26 (digits + special punctuation).
However, with enough chording it's getting closer to a chording keyboard. Then you don't even need one key per letter.

Different strokes for different folks. I was thinking about just using it with multiple layers, to hell with ergonomics. Punctuation on layer 2, numpad and Function keys on layer 3, with a function layer lock on layer 2 and 3.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 06 June 2016, 08:11:49
Sure, if your end goal is a torture device, it's a decent concept, although I believe, that it can be "improved"… For example, by using the TNWMLC symbol arrangement (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?worst_layout).

In that case, Unpopular Opinions is the right place for this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Mon, 06 June 2016, 08:16:12
Sure, if your end goal is a torture device, it's a decent concept, although I believe, that it can be "improved"… For example, by using the TNWMLC symbol arrangement (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?worst_layout).

In that case, Unpopular Opinions is the right place for this.

I do think the one-handed concept that Matias uses is a good start to building a 30% though, it's actually where I got the idea.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HeeCh2ei on Mon, 06 June 2016, 08:24:59
Quote
30%
I think somehow someone make a telegraph key keyboard. Pure minimalistic 1% keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 06 June 2016, 08:32:34
Sure, if your end goal is a torture device, it's a decent concept, although I believe, that it can be "improved"… For example, by using the TNWMLC symbol arrangement (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?worst_layout).

In that case, Unpopular Opinions is the right place for this.

I do think the one-handed concept that Matias uses is a good start to building a 30% though, it's actually where I got the idea.
Matias half-QWERTY doesn't have 1 key per letter.

Single-hand Maltron is closer, but it obviously has the extra keypad outside the keywell, because computer systems expect the availability of those keys.

Also, all you technically need is something like a 6row tenkey, and Unicode input.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Mon, 06 June 2016, 08:33:32
Quote
30%
I think somehow someone make a telegraph key keyboard. Pure minimalistic 1% keyboard.

(http://i.imgur.com/6gz0B3k.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Mon, 06 June 2016, 08:35:30
Sure, if your end goal is a torture device, it's a decent concept, although I believe, that it can be "improved"… For example, by using the TNWMLC symbol arrangement (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?worst_layout).

In that case, Unpopular Opinions is the right place for this.

I do think the one-handed concept that Matias uses is a good start to building a 30% though, it's actually where I got the idea.
Matias half-QWERTY doesn't have 1 key per letter.

Single-hand Maltron is closer, but it obviously has the extra keypad outside the keywell, because computer systems expect the availability of those keys.

Also, all you technically need is something like a 6row tenkey, and Unicode input.
Yep, at this point I'm looking at all the ways I can do this and it's not 100% feasible. I was considering the numpad layer to be sideways on the keyboard, so it'd be completely janky to use, but it'd probably make a pretty proof of concept.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 06 June 2016, 08:37:15
Sure, if your end goal is a torture device, it's a decent concept, although I believe, that it can be "improved"… For example, by using the TNWMLC symbol arrangement (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?worst_layout).

In that case, Unpopular Opinions is the right place for this.

I do think the one-handed concept that Matias uses is a good start to building a 30% though, it's actually where I got the idea.
Matias half-QWERTY doesn't have 1 key per letter.

Single-hand Maltron is closer, but it obviously has the extra keypad outside the keywell, because computer systems expect the availability of those keys.

Also, all you technically need is something like a 6row tenkey, and Unicode input.
Yep, at this point I'm looking at all the ways I can do this and it's not 100% feasible. I was considering the numpad layer to be sideways on the keyboard, so it'd be completely janky to use, but it'd probably make a pretty proof of concept.

GH36 might be enough keys (6x6 matrix).  I hate to think about it anymore than that because it's pure evil.

Edit: I hate you for making me think about this.  >:D

(http://i.imgur.com/Drs0qOP.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HeeCh2ei on Mon, 06 June 2016, 09:13:25
Quote
30%
I think somehow someone make a telegraph key keyboard. Pure minimalistic 1% keyboard.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/6gz0B3k.jpg)

It is 3 times more keys and have a terrible bezel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Mon, 06 June 2016, 09:16:05
Sure, if your end goal is a torture device, it's a decent concept, although I believe, that it can be "improved"… For example, by using the TNWMLC symbol arrangement (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?worst_layout).

In that case, Unpopular Opinions is the right place for this.

I do think the one-handed concept that Matias uses is a good start to building a 30% though, it's actually where I got the idea.
Matias half-QWERTY doesn't have 1 key per letter.

Single-hand Maltron is closer, but it obviously has the extra keypad outside the keywell, because computer systems expect the availability of those keys.

Also, all you technically need is something like a 6row tenkey, and Unicode input.
Yep, at this point I'm looking at all the ways I can do this and it's not 100% feasible. I was considering the numpad layer to be sideways on the keyboard, so it'd be completely janky to use, but it'd probably make a pretty proof of concept.

GH36 might be enough keys (6x6 matrix).  I hate to think about it anymore than that because it's pure evil.

Edit: I hate you for making me think about this.  >:D

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Drs0qOP.png)


I'm so sorry. Do we have a therapy room for you? Somewhere? Anywhere?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Mon, 06 June 2016, 09:30:42
More
Sure, if your end goal is a torture device, it's a decent concept, although I believe, that it can be "improved"… For example, by using the TNWMLC symbol arrangement (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?worst_layout).

In that case, Unpopular Opinions is the right place for this.

I do think the one-handed concept that Matias uses is a good start to building a 30% though, it's actually where I got the idea.
Matias half-QWERTY doesn't have 1 key per letter.

Single-hand Maltron is closer, but it obviously has the extra keypad outside the keywell, because computer systems expect the availability of those keys.

Also, all you technically need is something like a 6row tenkey, and Unicode input.
Yep, at this point I'm looking at all the ways I can do this and it's not 100% feasible. I was considering the numpad layer to be sideways on the keyboard, so it'd be completely janky to use, but it'd probably make a pretty proof of concept.

GH36 might be enough keys (6x6 matrix).  I hate to think about it anymore than that because it's pure evil.

Edit: I hate you for making me think about this.  >:D

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Drs0qOP.png)


I'm so sorry. Do we have a therapy room for you? Somewhere? Anywhere?

I'm going back to the GH-122 thread to hang out with people who love comically-oversized keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Mon, 06 June 2016, 09:41:11
More
Sure, if your end goal is a torture device, it's a decent concept, although I believe, that it can be "improved"… For example, by using the TNWMLC symbol arrangement (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?worst_layout).

In that case, Unpopular Opinions is the right place for this.

I do think the one-handed concept that Matias uses is a good start to building a 30% though, it's actually where I got the idea.
Matias half-QWERTY doesn't have 1 key per letter.

Single-hand Maltron is closer, but it obviously has the extra keypad outside the keywell, because computer systems expect the availability of those keys.

Also, all you technically need is something like a 6row tenkey, and Unicode input.
Yep, at this point I'm looking at all the ways I can do this and it's not 100% feasible. I was considering the numpad layer to be sideways on the keyboard, so it'd be completely janky to use, but it'd probably make a pretty proof of concept.

GH36 might be enough keys (6x6 matrix).  I hate to think about it anymore than that because it's pure evil.

Edit: I hate you for making me think about this.  >:D

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Drs0qOP.png)


I'm so sorry. Do we have a therapy room for you? Somewhere? Anywhere?

I'm going back to the GH-122 thread to hang out with people who love comically-oversized keyboards.

If you can find it in your heart,  I do like comically oversized keyboards. I just have these flights of fancies with small. I just want a reason to get super blacks and put them on a keyboard. Q_Q. But super blacks are so rare...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 06 June 2016, 12:21:08
More
Sure, if your end goal is a torture device, it's a decent concept, although I believe, that it can be "improved"… For example, by using the TNWMLC symbol arrangement (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?worst_layout).

In that case, Unpopular Opinions is the right place for this.

I do think the one-handed concept that Matias uses is a good start to building a 30% though, it's actually where I got the idea.
Matias half-QWERTY doesn't have 1 key per letter.

Single-hand Maltron is closer, but it obviously has the extra keypad outside the keywell, because computer systems expect the availability of those keys.

Also, all you technically need is something like a 6row tenkey, and Unicode input.
Yep, at this point I'm looking at all the ways I can do this and it's not 100% feasible. I was considering the numpad layer to be sideways on the keyboard, so it'd be completely janky to use, but it'd probably make a pretty proof of concept.

GH36 might be enough keys (6x6 matrix).  I hate to think about it anymore than that because it's pure evil.

Edit: I hate you for making me think about this.  >:D

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Drs0qOP.png)


I'm so sorry. Do we have a therapy room for you? Somewhere? Anywhere?

I'm going back to the GH-122 thread to hang out with people who love comically-oversized keyboards.

If you can find it in your heart,  I do like comically oversized keyboards. I just have these flights of fancies with small. I just want a reason to get super blacks and put them on a keyboard. Q_Q. But super blacks are so rare...

The world needs more Model F 122/GH-122 keyboards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 06 June 2016, 16:51:42
"space saving keyboards" are a great way of selling less for more. give it a new name, market it as being hip and voila $$$$
Are there any upcoming trends on the space wasting keyboards?

Well, we did have the GH-122 PCB IC that's shipping out.  If they do a fully assembled board, I'd definitely consider buying one.  An ANSI 122 board would be awesome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 06 June 2016, 17:53:20
slightly on topic - is it possible to buy a board of keys with a usb socket on the end which is programmable? eg 8 rows of keys x 8
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Mon, 06 June 2016, 18:40:23
slightly on topic - is it possible to buy a board of keys with a usb socket on the end which is programmable? eg 8 rows of keys x 8

I don't think so? I haven't seen any ICs or GBs either here or on the chinese forums that were 8x8. I've only seen numpads in those configurations, and even those are hard to find.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 06 June 2016, 18:49:35
slightly on topic - is it possible to buy a board of keys with a usb socket on the end which is programmable? eg 8 rows of keys x 8

I don't think so? I haven't seen any ICs or GBs either here or on the chinese forums that were 8x8. I've only seen numpads in those configurations, and even those are hard to find.

Genovation controlpads are pretty easy to find. Finding a contropad with 64 keys might take some digging around but I'm sure one will turn up. Unless you're looking for an Ableton Live controller, those are pretty easy to find in 8x8. I guess some of the Ableton Live controllers are 64 + 16 keys but I digress
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 06 June 2016, 20:01:38
Well, I'm not fussed if it is 8x8, just as long as there's a decent enough amount of keys to be useful for macros and the like (4x4 and upwards I guess). It would be perfect if it had enough space to hack.

If not, I may look into making one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KRKS on Tue, 07 June 2016, 01:14:54
I think a 30% keyboard is a feasible everyday keyboard to use. 

(26 letters, Enter, FN, Backspace, Space, Shift, and everything else on FN layers.)

I remember trying to cram a board into a small layout, I think with one FN layer you need at least 46 keys or something like that.

EDIT: 45 to have every key on a TLK represented once, and with nothing on Fn+mods so you can do Alt+F4 and stuff. If you can part with a single key(like Menu), you can turn that into 44.
Code: [Select]
["Esc","Q\n\n\n\n1","W\n\n\n\n2","E\n\n\n\n3","R\n\n\n\n4","T\n\n\n\n5","Y\n\n\n\n6","U\n\n\n\n7","I\n\n\n\n8","O\n\n\n\n9","P\n\n\n\n0","{\n[\n\n\n-","}\n]\n\n\n=","|\n\\\n\n\n~"],
[{w:1.25},"Ctrl","A\n\n\n\nInsert","S\n\n\n\nHome","D\n\n\n\nPgDn","F\n\n\n\nPgUp","G\n\n\n\nEnd","H\n\n\n\n←","J\n\n\n\n↓","K\n\n\n\n↑","L\n\n\n\n→",":\n;\n\n\nF11","\"\n'\n\n\nF12",{w:1.75},"Enter\n\n\n\nTab"],
[{w:1.75},"Shift","Z\n\n\n\nF1","X\n\n\n\nF2","C\n\n\n\nF3","V\n\n\n\nF4","B\n\n\n\nF5","N\n\n\n\nF6","M\n\n\n\nF7","<\n,\n\n\nF8",">\n.\n\n\nF9","?\n/\n\n\nF10",{w:2.25},"Caps Lock\n\n\n\nScrollLk"],
[{x:1.25,w:1.5},"Super",{w:1.5},"Alt",{a:7,w:2},"\n\n\n\nPrint Screen",{a:4,w:2},"Backspace\n\n\n\nDelete",{w:1.5},"Fn",{w:1.5},"Menu\n\n\n\nPause"]

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Tue, 07 June 2016, 06:50:37
I think a 30% keyboard is a feasible everyday keyboard to use. 

(26 letters, Enter, FN, Backspace, Space, Shift, and everything else on FN layers.)

I remember trying to cram a board into a small layout, I think with one FN layer you need at least 46 keys or something like that.

EDIT: 45 to have every key on a TLK represented once, and with nothing on Fn+mods so you can do Alt+F4 and stuff. If you can part with a single key(like Menu), you can turn that into 44.
Code: [Select]
["Esc","Q\n\n\n\n1","W\n\n\n\n2","E\n\n\n\n3","R\n\n\n\n4","T\n\n\n\n5","Y\n\n\n\n6","U\n\n\n\n7","I\n\n\n\n8","O\n\n\n\n9","P\n\n\n\n0","{\n[\n\n\n-","}\n]\n\n\n=","|\n\\\n\n\n~"],
[{w:1.25},"Ctrl","A\n\n\n\nInsert","S\n\n\n\nHome","D\n\n\n\nPgDn","F\n\n\n\nPgUp","G\n\n\n\nEnd","H\n\n\n\n←","J\n\n\n\n↓","K\n\n\n\n↑","L\n\n\n\n→",":\n;\n\n\nF11","\"\n'\n\n\nF12",{w:1.75},"Enter\n\n\n\nTab"],
[{w:1.75},"Shift","Z\n\n\n\nF1","X\n\n\n\nF2","C\n\n\n\nF3","V\n\n\n\nF4","B\n\n\n\nF5","N\n\n\n\nF6","M\n\n\n\nF7","<\n,\n\n\nF8",">\n.\n\n\nF9","?\n/\n\n\nF10",{w:2.25},"Caps Lock\n\n\n\nScrollLk"],
[{x:1.25,w:1.5},"Super",{w:1.5},"Alt",{a:7,w:2},"\n\n\n\nPrint Screen",{a:4,w:2},"Backspace\n\n\n\nDelete",{w:1.5},"Fn",{w:1.5},"Menu\n\n\n\nPause"]

I'd be going multiple layers, which is the only way I'd think it'd work,and basing it on the weird layout where there's no media and arrow keys, but a numpad instead. I don't remember the technical term for it though. D:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Tue, 07 June 2016, 08:26:26
I don't remember the technical term for it though. D:

I believe the word you're looking for is "retarded" or maybe it's "fu*king retarded"?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Tue, 07 June 2016, 08:31:23
I don't remember the technical term for it though. D:

I believe the word you're looking for is "retarded" or maybe it's "fu*king retarded"?

It is retarded, but I've already gone too far down this path to back off. I'll honestly forget in 2 or so weeks about ever saying anything about the 30%. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 07 June 2016, 09:33:45
Cherry MX Red switches while great for gaming are one of the worst switches for typing in existence. 

Between them being too easy to actuate and the Cherry variant in particular feeling scratchy and insanely easy to bottom out on being fairly uncomfortable due to this....unless you have feathers for fingers i see MX Reds as useless for anything but pure gaming.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HeeCh2ei on Tue, 07 June 2016, 11:28:16
Cherry MX Red switches while great for gaming are one of the worst switches for typing in existence. 

Between them being too easy to actuate and the Cherry variant in particular feeling scratchy and insanely easy to bottom out on being fairly uncomfortable due to this....unless you have feathers for fingers i see MX Reds as useless for anything but pure gaming.
All of you who describe reds as scratchy just have a switches from a bad batch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eksuen on Tue, 07 June 2016, 11:39:50
Cherry MX Red switches while great for gaming are one of the worst switches for typing in existence. 

Between them being too easy to actuate and the Cherry variant in particular feeling scratchy and insanely easy to bottom out on being fairly uncomfortable due to this....unless you have feathers for fingers i see MX Reds as useless for anything but pure gaming.
All of you who describe reds as scratchy just have a switches from a bad batch.

I've never had an issue with scratchiness, but I also bottom out the majority of my keystrokes on all switches I've tried (including blacks and clears), so I suppose I just don't feel it. I figured the people complaining about the scratchiness must have really sensitive fingers, or type extremely lightly and slowly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HeeCh2ei on Tue, 07 June 2016, 11:50:57
Cherry MX Red switches while great for gaming are one of the worst switches for typing in existence. 

Between them being too easy to actuate and the Cherry variant in particular feeling scratchy and insanely easy to bottom out on being fairly uncomfortable due to this....unless you have feathers for fingers i see MX Reds as useless for anything but pure gaming.
All of you who describe reds as scratchy just have a switches from a bad batch.

I've never had an issue with scratchiness, but I also bottom out the majority of my keystrokes on all switches I've tried (including blacks and clears), so I suppose I just don't feel it. I figured the people complaining about the scratchiness must have really sensitive fingers, or type extremely lightly and slowly.

I always deliberately bottom out reds, there is no point to try not to do it. And I use it in rotation with topre board without any problem in smoothness.
Few reds on board were scratchy, especially when be pressed fast. I think a legs and slider sides are ok and the problem is in the springs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 07 June 2016, 11:56:44
Cherry MX Red switches while great for gaming are one of the worst switches for typing in existence. 

Between them being too easy to actuate and the Cherry variant in particular feeling scratchy and insanely easy to bottom out on being fairly uncomfortable due to this....unless you have feathers for fingers i see MX Reds as useless for anything but pure gaming.
All of you who describe reds as scratchy just have a switches from a bad batch.

I have tried Reds on several boards not limited to but including.

Corsair K65 RGB
KUL 87 ES
pok3r
Ganss G.S 87
Numerous loose switches

IN any and all cases they have felt scratchy to me honestly, even cheaper switches with heavier springs like Outemu blacks felt smoother.  But of course as with anything it's subjective and YMMV.  But i have yet to feel a red i consider smooth from Cherry (I have not yet used Gateron reds aside from a loose switch)

Is it possible EVERY single red iv'e tried over a period of time were all from a bad batch?  Sure...but it's far more likely my personal opinion is i just find them scratchy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HeeCh2ei on Tue, 07 June 2016, 12:10:05
Cherry MX Red switches while great for gaming are one of the worst switches for typing in existence. 

Between them being too easy to actuate and the Cherry variant in particular feeling scratchy and insanely easy to bottom out on being fairly uncomfortable due to this....unless you have feathers for fingers i see MX Reds as useless for anything but pure gaming.
All of you who describe reds as scratchy just have a switches from a bad batch.

I have tried Reds on several boards not limited to but including.

Corsair K65 RGB
KUL 87 ES
pok3r
Ganss G.S 87
Numerous loose switches

IN any and all cases they have felt scratchy to me honestly, even cheaper switches with heavier springs like Outemu blacks felt smoother.  But of course as with anything it's subjective and YMMV.  But i have yet to feel a red i consider smooth from Cherry (I have not yet used Gateron reds aside from a loose switch)

Is it possible EVERY single red iv'e tried over a period of time were all from a bad batch?  Sure...but it's far more likely my personal opinion is i just find them scratchy.


Are they feel scratchy due to the rough surface of slider or a spring? Are they more scratchy if you pushed the keys fast or slow?

Quote
Is it possible EVERY single red iv'e tried over a period of time were all from a bad batch?  Sure...but it's far more likely my personal opinion is i just find them scratchy.
Or maybe not?
Maybe bad batches is not that rare thing and most of it is bad and only few is ok?
Or maybe something changed in manufacturing processes?
There is only two theories I have.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 07 June 2016, 12:22:11
Cherry MX Red switches while great for gaming are one of the worst switches for typing in existence. 

Between them being too easy to actuate and the Cherry variant in particular feeling scratchy and insanely easy to bottom out on being fairly uncomfortable due to this....unless you have feathers for fingers i see MX Reds as useless for anything but pure gaming.

Disagreement here.  I love MX reds for typing.  I use an MX red board full time at home and would eventually love a good split/tented board with reds.  Blacks were too heavy and caused pain and I don't care for tactility in my switches so blues are out.  Browns aren't bad and I rather enjoy the Romer-G switches for but now, reds are my go-to switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 07 June 2016, 13:03:53
Cherry MX Red switches while great for gaming are one of the worst switches for typing in existence. 

Between them being too easy to actuate and the Cherry variant in particular feeling scratchy and insanely easy to bottom out on being fairly uncomfortable due to this....unless you have feathers for fingers i see MX Reds as useless for anything but pure gaming.
All of you who describe reds as scratchy just have a switches from a bad batch.

I have tried Reds on several boards not limited to but including.

Corsair K65 RGB
KUL 87 ES
pok3r
Ganss G.S 87
Numerous loose switches

IN any and all cases they have felt scratchy to me honestly, even cheaper switches with heavier springs like Outemu blacks felt smoother.  But of course as with anything it's subjective and YMMV.  But i have yet to feel a red i consider smooth from Cherry (I have not yet used Gateron reds aside from a loose switch)

Is it possible EVERY single red iv'e tried over a period of time were all from a bad batch?  Sure...but it's far more likely my personal opinion is i just find them scratchy.


Are they feel scratchy due to the rough surface of slider or a spring? Are they more scratchy if you pushed the keys fast or slow?

Quote
Is it possible EVERY single red iv'e tried over a period of time were all from a bad batch?  Sure...but it's far more likely my personal opinion is i just find them scratchy.
Or maybe not?
Maybe bad batches is not that rare thing and most of it is bad and only few is ok?
Or maybe something changed in manufacturing processes?
There is only two theories I have.

Given how much smoother Gateron switches have been compared to their cherry counterparts i'm quite curious to use and try Gateron reds as i'd be willing to be it's a Cherry thing.  Even the kailh reds i have used felt a little better than the Cherry switches (Though more inconsistent)

Far as your question they definitely feel scratchier when i pushed them slower but it was noticeable typing at full speed.  The only time i have ever enjoyed reds (and unlikely to change) is from a pure gaming standpoint.  Constantly bottoming out on a switch due to it being so light with no tactility is far from comfortable either.

On a side note for what it's worth i also feel Cherry MX Blacks are very scratchy and their counterparts from Outemu and Gateron were far far smoother.  The only reason i don't mind blacks as much is i don't bottom out on them and when some 0.4 O-Rings combined with the stiffer force they are far more tolerable for myself at least.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 07 June 2016, 13:10:03
Cherry MX Red switches while great for gaming are one of the worst switches for typing in existence. 

Between them being too easy to actuate and the Cherry variant in particular feeling scratchy and insanely easy to bottom out on being fairly uncomfortable due to this....unless you have feathers for fingers i see MX Reds as useless for anything but pure gaming.
All of you who describe reds as scratchy just have a switches from a bad batch.

I have tried Reds on several boards not limited to but including.

Corsair K65 RGB
KUL 87 ES
pok3r
Ganss G.S 87
Numerous loose switches

IN any and all cases they have felt scratchy to me honestly, even cheaper switches with heavier springs like Outemu blacks felt smoother.  But of course as with anything it's subjective and YMMV.  But i have yet to feel a red i consider smooth from Cherry (I have not yet used Gateron reds aside from a loose switch)

Is it possible EVERY single red iv'e tried over a period of time were all from a bad batch?  Sure...but it's far more likely my personal opinion is i just find them scratchy.


Are they feel scratchy due to the rough surface of slider or a spring? Are they more scratchy if you pushed the keys fast or slow?

Quote
Is it possible EVERY single red iv'e tried over a period of time were all from a bad batch?  Sure...but it's far more likely my personal opinion is i just find them scratchy.
Or maybe not?
Maybe bad batches is not that rare thing and most of it is bad and only few is ok?
Or maybe something changed in manufacturing processes?
There is only two theories I have.

Given how much smoother Gateron switches have been compared to their cherry counterparts i'm quite curious to use and try Gateron reds as i'd be willing to be it's a Cherry thing.  Even the kailh reds i have used felt a little better than the Cherry switches (Though more inconsistent)

Far as your question they definitely feel scratchier when i pushed them slower but it was noticeable typing at full speed.  The only time i have ever enjoyed reds (and unlikely to change) is from a pure gaming standpoint.  Constantly bottoming out on a switch due to it being so light with no tactility is far from comfortable either.

On a side note for what it's worth i also feel Cherry MX Blacks are very scratchy and their counterparts from Outemu and Gateron were far far smoother.  The only reason i don't mind blacks as much is i don't bottom out on them and when some 0.4 O-Rings combined with the stiffer force they are far more tolerable for myself at least.

I'd like to try some Gateron reds as well. A handful of (LARGE) switch testers should satisfy my cravings though; I don't know how you all manage those massive keyboard collections :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dtaflorida on Tue, 07 June 2016, 15:25:24
I'm on Gateron Brown switches, having come from Cherry MX Blues, and I'm beginning to think the 'smoothness' really just does not matter on anything but linear switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 07 June 2016, 15:32:22
I'm on Gateron Brown switches, having come from Cherry MX Blues, and I'm beginning to think the 'smoothness' really just does not matter on anything but linear switches.

I can definitely feel a very noticeable difference in Cherry Blues vs Gateron blues personally.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheddarbek on Tue, 07 June 2016, 17:59:51
I'm on Gateron Brown switches, having come from Cherry MX Blues, and I'm beginning to think the 'smoothness' really just does not matter on anything but linear switches.

I can definitely feel a very noticeable difference in Cherry Blues vs Gateron blues personally.
Huge difference between kaihl blues and gaterons in my opinion. Gaterons were way smoother. That being said they're both still ****.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 07 June 2016, 18:16:15
I'm actually wanting to try out some Gateron reds.  Any 75% boards or TKL around with them?  No desire to touch anything smaller than a 75% and I've already got a nice Ducky full-size.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 07 June 2016, 18:32:05
I'm actually wanting to try out some Gateron reds.  Any 75% boards or TKL around with them?  No desire to touch anything smaller than a 75% and I've already got a nice Ducky full-size.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1654 (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1654)  If you still insist on having useless keys :p  TKL sized backlit W/ Gateron Reds under 90$ US.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Tue, 07 June 2016, 18:50:41
I'm actually wanting to try out some Gateron reds.  Any 75% boards or TKL around with them?  No desire to touch anything smaller than a 75% and I've already got a nice Ducky full-size.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1654 (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1654)  If you still insist on having useless keys :p  TKL sized backlit W/ Gateron Reds under 90$ US.

Is it just me, or does that seem really light for an "Aluminum Cover" keyboard?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 07 June 2016, 19:07:37
I'm actually wanting to try out some Gateron reds.  Any 75% boards or TKL around with them?  No desire to touch anything smaller than a 75% and I've already got a nice Ducky full-size.

Winkeyless.kr has that B.Mini (75%) that you can order with Gateron Reds. I think the Noppoo Choc Mini (75%) is also available with Gateron Reds but I'm not sure of where to get it. I'd imagine that Massdrop is the best source for keyboards that ship out with Gaterons on the plate/PCB. The Choc Mini listings on Amazon (branded as Noppoo switches) are actually Gaote switches, definitely not Gaterons.

In lieu of veering from the topic, I think the Noppoo Choc Mini (POM) should be considered more often. If you have long nails the pad printed side legends could scrape off after while, but the pros outweigh the cons imo. Well, maybe more of an entry board since the layout is not exactly compatible with universal sets (5.5u spacebar? wth?) that include the common 75% key sizes (geekkeys, etc.)..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 07 June 2016, 20:00:00
Yeah 75% fully built boards have been hard to come by lately.  Seems the regular Vortex / Noppoo boards aren't around now that I'm out for one.  Pity the 84-key that's on Massdrop right now isn't Gateron.  Just Kailh switches.  Though I'm still tempted.

I'll have to poke around and see what I can get in Gateron linear switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shaussman on Fri, 10 June 2016, 17:33:53
My Gateron browns are noticeably more scratchy then my Cherry browns. They're more tactile as well though, which is nice
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Sun, 12 June 2016, 17:46:55
I'm actually wanting to try out some Gateron reds.  Any 75% boards or TKL around with them?  No desire to touch anything smaller than a 75% and I've already got a nice Ducky full-size.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1654 (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1654)  If you still insist on having useless keys :p  TKL sized backlit W/ Gateron Reds under 90$ US.



That's not bad and those keys are rather useful to me, particularly when gaming or with closing browser tabs (Ctrl F4 ftw) when I have stuff mapped to the F keys.  Just with the VE.A had been less expensive.  I'd have been all over it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 12 June 2016, 19:26:52
- It's usually cheaper to buy an old keyboard with MX compatible keycaps than to buy a new set
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 12 June 2016, 21:15:05
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 12 June 2016, 21:21:33
- It's usually cheaper to buy an old keyboard with MX compatible keycaps than to buy a new set

and old caps are better.  OG cherry > GMK all day everyday

I can confirm by first hand experience that OG Cherry sets are far better than brand new GMK's.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Sun, 12 June 2016, 23:42:06
- It's usually cheaper to buy an old keyboard with MX compatible keycaps than to buy a new set

and old caps are better.  OG cherry > GMK all day everyday

I can confirm by first hand experience that OG Cherry sets are far better than brand new GMK's.

i have seen them, and i'd agree that OG Cherry have some (very) nice keycaps. never tried GMK tho.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swagkash on Mon, 13 June 2016, 06:41:45
i like leaving pizza grease on my keyboard. it gives me that extra boost in speed needed in this competitive world of typing really fast.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 13 June 2016, 07:09:28
i like leaving pizza grease on my keyboard. it gives me that extra boost in speed needed in this competitive world of typing really fast.

Pros only eat cold pizza.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 13 June 2016, 10:03:15
- It's usually cheaper to buy an old keyboard with MX compatible keycaps than to buy a new set

and old caps are better.  OG cherry > GMK all day everyday

I can confirm by first hand experience that OG Cherry sets are far better than brand new GMK's.

Yeah, totally agree, though think this is pretty commonly accepted as fact.

GMK is great and easily the best modern Cherry Profile caps being made still, but you cant top those OG cherry sets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Malenky on Tue, 14 June 2016, 01:04:02
GMK uses the original Cherry tooling and moulds right? I feel like the GMK sets I have are almost identical to the OG Cherry sets I have.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nmur on Tue, 14 June 2016, 01:07:01
i think i've mentioned this before, but

i really don't like stormtrooper hhkbs, at all
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 14 June 2016, 05:16:59
Really not a fan of Costar Stabilizers at all

Cherry Stablizers can be mushy depending on the board in question however you can clip cherry stabs if it bothers you that much.  Personally i actually like the distinguishing feel between the alphas and modifiers.

Costar though just feels and sounds rattly like something is very out of place or not working right in a machine, in addition to being a PITA changing keycaps on something i do quite often.

I'm at the point now i actively go out of my way to avoid boards that use Costar stabilizers
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Tue, 14 June 2016, 05:21:11
Just got my first clack - they're massively overhyped and not worth it at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Tue, 14 June 2016, 07:24:13
Just got my first clack - they're massively overhyped and not worth it at all.

Prepare your anus.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 14 June 2016, 07:54:18
Just got my first clack - they're massively overhyped and not worth it at all.

You just have discovered the boiled water, Eureka!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:05:02
GMK uses the original Cherry tooling and moulds right?

Sure, they use the same molds.  But are the plastic formulations exactly the same?  I can just about guarantee you that they are not.  And molds wear, eventually requiring replacement.  Markets change, dictating price over quality.  Customer needs shift over time.  These things are rarely if ever constant over a 30 year time frame.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:07:45
Just got my first clack - they're massively overhyped and not worth it at all.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i feel i must ask the following.

Clacks unlike say buying into a mystery product...you know what it looks like beforehand..you know exactly what you are buying before you buy it.  So what in essence is over hyped about it that led to your disappointment? I'm actually quite curious.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:13:02
Just got my first clack - they're massively overhyped and not worth it at all.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i feel i must ask the following.

Clacks unlike say buying into a mystery product...you know what it looks like beforehand..you know exactly what you are buying before you buy it.  So what in essence is over hyped about it that led to your disappointment? I'm actually quite curious.
Sometimes you can't appreciate or dislike a thing until you put your hands on it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:20:30
Just got my first clack - they're massively overhyped and not worth it at all.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i feel i must ask the following.

Clacks unlike say buying into a mystery product...you know what it looks like beforehand..you know exactly what you are buying before you buy it.  So what in essence is over hyped about it that led to your disappointment? I'm actually quite curious.
Sometimes you can't appreciate or dislike a thing until you put your hands on it.

With certain things like say different switches i would agree entirely.  But you can't really "Experience" An artisan keycap...you are either buying it for looks,for collection or be "that guy" who buys to resell.

Which is why i am very curious about the post authors thoughts as to why he/she thinks the way they do.  It's all opinion and non are invalid i'm just curious as to specifics.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:49:33
GMK uses the original Cherry tooling and moulds right? I feel like the GMK sets I have are almost identical to the OG Cherry sets I have.

They share the design; therefore, they should be similar, but not the same. After many years working in manufacturing, I know well, that the molds have to be replaced, or at least overhauled after some years, or certain thousands of injection cycles and each run is not exactly the same as the previous and worn off cavities will make the parts actually different, even if the differences cannot be seen by the untrained eye.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 14 June 2016, 09:28:13
But you can't really "Experience" An artisan keycap...you are either buying it for looks,for collection or be "that guy" who buys to resell.

I disagree entirely.  I had little interest in Clacks until I actually had one in hand and could feel it.  The sculpt is just so perfectly textured to the touch, it's a real joy to interact with and use.  Skulls aren't a huge interest of mine, but Clack has put together a perfectly sculpted cap and I didn't realize that until putting it on a board and touching it. 

YMMV  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 14 June 2016, 09:52:18
But you can't really "Experience" An artisan keycap...you are either buying it for looks,for collection or be "that guy" who buys to resell.

I disagree entirely.  I had little interest in Clacks until I actually had one in hand and could feel it.  The sculpt is just so perfectly textured to the touch, it's a real joy to interact with and use.  Skulls aren't a huge interest of mine, but Clack has put together a perfectly sculpted cap and I didn't realize that until putting it on a board and touching it. 

YMMV  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

YMMV of course as with much else in the world of mechanical keyboards :p  Given that i personally use artisans on keys i nearly never ever use i just personally feel as though one doesn't "Experience" an artisan in the same way for example one experiences a mechanical switch.

But i see your point.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 14 June 2016, 09:55:40
But you can't really "Experience" An artisan keycap...you are either buying it for looks,for collection or be "that guy" who buys to resell.

I disagree entirely.  I had little interest in Clacks until I actually had one in hand and could feel it.  The sculpt is just so perfectly textured to the touch, it's a real joy to interact with and use.  Skulls aren't a huge interest of mine, but Clack has put together a perfectly sculpted cap and I didn't realize that until putting it on a board and touching it. 

YMMV  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

YMMV of course as with much else in the world of mechanical keyboards :p  Given that i personally use artisans on keys i nearly never ever use i just personally feel as though one doesn't "Experience" an artisan in the same way for example one experiences a mechanical switch.

But i see your point.

Oh absolutely.  Your finger isn't resting on the key, for example.  But it did introduce me to the idea of a sculpted cap as being more than just a pretty thing to look at - they can feel nice too!  :D  Until that point, the only caps I had used that were similar in that sense were binge's WASDson caps.  And to me, that's just all that much more impressive of a design.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 14 June 2016, 10:57:04
But you can't really "Experience" An artisan keycap...you are either buying it for looks,for collection or be "that guy" who buys to resell.

I disagree entirely.  I had little interest in Clacks until I actually had one in hand and could feel it.  The sculpt is just so perfectly textured to the touch, it's a real joy to interact with and use.  Skulls aren't a huge interest of mine, but Clack has put together a perfectly sculpted cap and I didn't realize that until putting it on a board and touching it. 

YMMV  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

YMMV of course as with much else in the world of mechanical keyboards :p  Given that i personally use artisans on keys i nearly never ever use i just personally feel as though one doesn't "Experience" an artisan in the same way for example one experiences a mechanical switch.

But i see your point.

From personal experience, I think that Rama's Wave aluminum caps, Bro's BBv2s, and Nightcap's Half-shells are my favorite artisans that don't detract from the usability of the key they are on.  I'm sure there are plenty more out there, but those three are the ones that come to mind for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:51:28
Just got my first clack - they're massively overhyped and not worth it at all.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i feel i must ask the following.

Clacks unlike say buying into a mystery product...you know what it looks like beforehand..you know exactly what you are buying before you buy it.  So what in essence is over hyped about it that led to your disappointment? I'm actually quite curious.
Sometimes you can't appreciate or dislike a thing until you put your hands on it.

With certain things like say different switches i would agree entirely.  But you can't really "Experience" An artisan keycap...you are either buying it for looks,for collection or be "that guy" who buys to resell.

Which is why i am very curious about the post authors thoughts as to why he/she thinks the way they do.  It's all opinion and non are invalid i'm just curious as to specifics.

Well it turns out I am that guy that has to have it in my hands. Take the Purple Haze keywok, I thought it'd be alright but I had to see. And holy **** was I blown away, it basically isn't going to leave my hands. Same with the V2, it's much better in person. Some colorways just pop more in person, such as my Unicorn Blood or Jungle Love (Reaper).

The 3D Clack? Disappointing. Not really what I expected from the amount of hype and stupidly high prices. I however will be selling it on, as I just don't want it. It looks cool but that's it. I can appreciate the colors from pictues and I don't feel any better about owning one. It belongs in someone else's hands.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: natas206 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 13:27:55
My Gateron browns are noticeably more scratchy then my Cherry browns. They're more tactile as well though, which is nice

Can confirm. Wanted to try it out and the scratchiness is very noticeable.

(http://i.imgur.com/t32WOc6.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chipotle on Thu, 16 June 2016, 12:45:25
After having a work keyboard with Matias Quiet Click switches and an ergonomically RealForce 87U at home for the past few months...

...I've, uh, decided I like the Matias switches more. And I've switched to a Mini Tactile Pro (with the "non-quiet" Matias switches) at home now. I think I may like those a little more than the MQC switches, although they're sure not quiet. They're quieter, and better-feeling, than the Alps clones that Matias was using in their previous generation, though.

I like Topre switches better than any of the Cherry switches I've tried, with the possible exception of the clears. (I haven't tried anything but stock MX switches, though.) That's not an unpopular opinion, but the Topres just...don't quite do it for me. Maybe if I'd gone with uniform 45g or 55g weights, I'd have a different opinion, but the Matias switches are as close to personal end game as I'm likely to get. (Famous last words.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: robbles on Thu, 16 June 2016, 13:31:25
I know everyone says Topre is **** for gaming, but I REALLY like my lubed HHKB for playing FPS and shmups. The tactile bump gives you great response for your actuation and the lube allows you to make quick movements.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 16 June 2016, 13:49:27
After having a work keyboard with Matias Quiet Click switches and an ergonomically RealForce 87U at home for the past few months...

...I've, uh, decided I like the Matias switches more. And I've switched to a Mini Tactile Pro (with the "non-quiet" Matias switches) at home now. I think I may like those a little more than the MQC switches, although they're sure not quiet. They're quieter, and better-feeling, than the Alps clones that Matias was using in their previous generation, though.

I like Topre switches better than any of the Cherry switches I've tried, with the possible exception of the clears. (I haven't tried anything but stock MX switches, though.) That's not an unpopular opinion, but the Topres just...don't quite do it for me. Maybe if I'd gone with uniform 45g or 55g weights, I'd have a different opinion, but the Matias switches are as close to personal end game as I'm likely to get. (Famous last words.)
End game for you might possibly be Brown ALPS.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 20 June 2016, 05:47:32
Caps lock is the most useless key in history and everyone not swapping it for CTRL or something otherwise useful is a big dum-dum. Using a stepped capslock to hit it less is idiotic, but looks unique.

Winkey is essential if you don't do more than 90% of your work in terminals.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheddarbek on Mon, 20 June 2016, 10:28:52

Winkey is essential if you don't do more than 90% of your work in terminals.
Agreed! Winkeykess looks cool, but losing the GUI key is silly, especially for Mac users.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: QuincyJones on Mon, 20 June 2016, 13:05:03

Winkey is essential if you don't do more than 90% of your work in terminals.
Agreed! Winkeykess looks cool, but losing the GUI key is silly, especially for Mac users.

LIES - AS A MANUFACTURER I WANT TO SAVE MONEY BY REMOVING KEYS AND TELLING PEOPLE IT'S COOL AND TO BE COOL YOU HAVE TO PAY A PREMIUM. GIVE ME MORE MONEY FOR LESS KEYS
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheddarbek on Mon, 20 June 2016, 14:26:57

Winkey is essential if you don't do more than 90% of your work in terminals.
Agreed! Winkeykess looks cool, but losing the GUI key is silly, especially for Mac users.

LIES - AS A MANUFACTURER I WANT TO SAVE MONEY BY REMOVING KEYS AND TELLING PEOPLE IT'S COOL AND TO BE COOL YOU HAVE TO PAY A PREMIUM. GIVE ME MORE MONEY FOR LESS KEYS

Coming soon: HHKB SUPERLEGERRA CHALLENGE STRADALE RS3
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Mon, 20 June 2016, 14:28:38
Winkey is essential if you don't do more than 90% of your work in terminals.

The only thing I use GUI for is an app selector, which I could bind anywhere. But I'm not on a Mac, and my keybinds aren't completely **** :P

Nor do I work in terminals. I just make the computer serve me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kawasaki161 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 16:22:20
After a few months in this community I can say that I, unlike basically everyone else, like the color green in my keyboard. Not some dark pinetree-ish green, but something among the lines of lime green.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: streetwizzur on Mon, 20 June 2016, 16:29:37
I really don't like clears. No matter how "ergo" they are. I think browns are much better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 20 June 2016, 16:45:13
I really don't like clears. No matter how "ergo" they are. I think browns are much better.

Of course, LOL.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Mon, 20 June 2016, 21:47:25
Just got my first clack - they're massively overhyped and not worth it at all.

When you're willing to pay hundreds of bucks for a single key button (assuming it's not encrusted with diamonds or something), how can you be surprised that you were "hyped" into it? Getting people to that point requires a huge amount of hype—not just from the person who develops the item, but from buyers and potential buyers, a certain number of whom must agree the item's worth that much. If you hadn't read, over and over, that there was something remarkably special about it—and before that, been conditioned to accept the general idea of "artisan caps"—would you have paid much more than $20 for it? (The fact that it's hand-carved would always give it some special value.)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i feel i must ask the following... Clacks unlike say buying into a mystery product...you know what it looks like beforehand..you know exactly what you are buying before you buy it.  So what in essence is over hyped about it that led to your disappointment? I'm actually quite curious.

Sometimes you can't appreciate or dislike a thing until you put your hands on it.

But how would you expect a small piece of plastic to feel? And when you're actually using it, you're pressing a carved-up surface rather than a smooth one—so how on earth could you discern the difference between it and any other material? Maybe I'm missing something.


Caps lock is the most useless key in history and everyone not swapping it for CTRL or something otherwise useful is a big dum-dum...

I agree about Caps Lock—but why map it to Ctrl? Two Ctrl keys isn't enough? (Personally, I think I'd map it to period, CR, CR.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 21 June 2016, 02:10:20
Just got my first clack - they're massively overhyped and not worth it at all.

When you're willing to pay hundreds of bucks for a single key button (assuming it's not encrusted with diamonds or something), how can you be surprised that you were "hyped" into it? Getting people to that point requires a huge amount of hype—not just from the person who develops the item, but from buyers and potential buyers, a certain number of whom must agree the item's worth that much. If you hadn't read, over and over, that there was something remarkably special about it—and before that, been conditioned to accept the general idea of "artisan caps"—would you have paid much more than $20 for it? (The fact that it's hand-carved would always give it some special value.)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i feel i must ask the following... Clacks unlike say buying into a mystery product...you know what it looks like beforehand..you know exactly what you are buying before you buy it.  So what in essence is over hyped about it that led to your disappointment? I'm actually quite curious.

Sometimes you can't appreciate or dislike a thing until you put your hands on it.

But how would you expect a small piece of plastic to feel? And when you're actually using it, you're pressing a carved-up surface rather than a smooth one—so how on earth could you discern the difference between it and any other material? Maybe I'm missing something.


Caps lock is the most useless key in history and everyone not swapping it for CTRL or something otherwise useful is a big dum-dum...

I agree about Caps Lock—but why map it to Ctrl? Two Ctrl keys isn't enough? (Personally, I think I'd map it to period, CR, CR.)

I can't speak from experience but you probably wouldn't be handling just the carved surfaces. The smooth surfaces can also reveal how much work and effort that has gone into a piece.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Tue, 21 June 2016, 02:14:20
This is obviously a whole esthetic that's beyond my comprehension.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 21 June 2016, 02:25:02
This is obviously a whole esthetic that's beyond my comprehension.

Just do you man :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Tue, 21 June 2016, 02:54:15
Hey, I'm just trying to be unpopular... Isn't that the idea here?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: supamesican on Tue, 21 June 2016, 12:19:01
GOOD condition alps/clones are nicer than topre(though the hhkb layout is still my favorite for anything but gaming and tropre still > any mx)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 12:25:42
GOOD condition alps/clones are nicer than topre(though the hhkb layout is still my favorite for anything but gaming and tropre still > any mx)
Good condition alps are better than anything
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Tue, 21 June 2016, 12:40:05
Just got my first clack - they're massively overhyped and not worth it at all.
When you're willing to pay hundreds of bucks for a single key button (assuming it's not encrusted with diamonds or something), how can you be surprised that you were "hyped" into it? Getting people to that point requires a huge amount of hype—not just from the person who develops the item, but from buyers and potential buyers, a certain number of whom must agree the item's worth that much. If you hadn't read, over and over, that there was something remarkably special about it—and before that, been conditioned to accept the general idea of "artisan caps"—would you have paid much more than $20 for it? (The fact that it's hand-carved would always give it some special value.)
Got it in a bundle so at a massive discount, probably only paid $80 for it thinking about it. I've had over 30-40 artisans and it was ranking mid in my opinion. I'd never pay more than $150 for the color that I want.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Morituri on Tue, 21 June 2016, 23:38:29
104 key keyboards aren't big enough. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Tue, 21 June 2016, 23:45:25
The only good Alps are linear without all the superfluous clicky gimmickry. A worn out Model M would be much better than any clicky Alps. Blue Alps have to be the most overrated switch in the universe. White alps are pretty much cheap, throw away garbage and Blues aren't far behind.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: emdude on Tue, 21 June 2016, 23:47:30
The only good Alps are linear without all the superfluous clicky gimmickry. A worn out Model M would be much better than any clicky Alps.

As someone who loves both buckling springs and Alps, ouch! :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Tue, 21 June 2016, 23:52:30
The only good Alps are linear without all the superfluous clicky gimmickry. A worn out Model M would be much better than any clicky Alps.

As someone who loves both buckling springs and Alps, ouch! :))

I gotta Troll hard. But really I don't care about clicky Alps that much. I'm not going to go nuts over them for sure, unlike a Model F. Actually, Model M feels somewhat cheap in a way, due to the design compromises made for cost reduction.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bromono on Wed, 24 August 2016, 18:35:54
I really don't like aluminum keyboards anymore.

I prefer plastic cases. To me they feel more durable (if dropped) and I like the extra flex.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Screwdriver on Thu, 25 August 2016, 09:10:38
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mason on Thu, 25 August 2016, 09:13:27
1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 6.25, 1.5, 1.5 bottom rows are ugly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 25 August 2016, 09:15:43
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...

How long have you been using it?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Screwdriver on Thu, 25 August 2016, 09:34:23
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...

How long have you been using it?

Three+ weeks at the office....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 25 August 2016, 09:35:37
I really don't like aluminum keyboards anymore.

I prefer plastic cases. To me they feel more durable (if dropped) and I like the extra flex.

Super cheap plastic case for my pok3r? Super silent, colourful and nicer than that badly finished aluminium case.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 25 August 2016, 09:36:13
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...

How long have you been using it?



Three+ weeks at the office....

If it's not silenced, I admit that it's just a noisy membrane keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 25 August 2016, 09:40:31
I really don't like aluminum keyboards anymore.

I prefer plastic cases. To me they feel more durable (if dropped) and I like the extra flex.

Super cheap plastic case for my pok3r? Super silent, colourful and nicer than that badly finished aluminium case.
That's the thing holding me back from selling my board and getting a custom, you never know the quality of the aluminum parts until it's too late
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 25 August 2016, 11:03:21
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...

How long have you been using it?



Three+ weeks at the office....

If it's not silenced, I admit that it's just a noisy membrane keyboard.
Although there's no membrane?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 25 August 2016, 11:03:56
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...

How long have you been using it?



Three+ weeks at the office....

If it's not silenced, I admit that it's just a noisy membrane keyboard.
Although there's no membrane?
Noisy membrane, so like a model m :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: emdude on Thu, 25 August 2016, 11:10:47
I really don't like aluminum keyboards anymore.

I prefer plastic cases. To me they feel more durable (if dropped) and I like the extra flex.

Super cheap plastic case for my pok3r? Super silent, colourful and nicer than that badly finished aluminium case.

Also easily replaceable if the case does end up getting damaged at some point. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 25 August 2016, 12:23:01
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...

How long have you been using it?



Three+ weeks at the office....

If it's not silenced, I admit that it's just a noisy membrane keyboard.
Although there's no membrane?

Membrane, rubber dome, it's all the same to me. It's just a rubber layer that provides resistance and tactility.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Thu, 25 August 2016, 12:25:45
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...
Try a HHKB. Much nicer. I went from 87u 55g to HHKBT, and I don't use the 55g anymore.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 25 August 2016, 13:01:17
I really don't like aluminum keyboards anymore.

I prefer plastic cases. To me they feel more durable (if dropped) and I like the extra flex.

Super cheap plastic case for my pok3r? Super silent, colourful and nicer than that badly finished aluminium case.

Also easily replaceable if the case does end up getting damaged at some point. :P

Why oh why nobody has made plastic cases/top case for the novatouch? There's plenty for CM and Filco tkls.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Screwdriver on Thu, 25 August 2016, 13:05:13
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...
Try a HHKB. Much nicer. I went from 87u 55g to HHKBT, and I don't use the 55g anymore.

I also do not care for the HHKB layout......but they do look nifty.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alexjd99 on Thu, 25 August 2016, 17:42:06
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...
Try a HHKB. Much nicer. I went from 87u 55g to HHKBT, and I don't use the 55g anymore.

I also do not care for the HHKB layout......but they do look nifty.

The layout takes about a week to get used to, but once you get used to it you can never go back to other layouts. I have all of my boards with Control and Caps switched, and if I can I get them all with the diamond arrows too. Such a nice layout once you give it a try
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 25 August 2016, 17:45:25
I would like orings to be harder. I hate that squishy, imprecise stop that happens at the end of the movement. They should make the key quieter but not muddy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Screwdriver on Thu, 25 August 2016, 18:53:22
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...
Try a HHKB. Much nicer. I went from 87u 55g to HHKBT, and I don't use the 55g anymore.

I also do not care for the HHKB layout......but they do look nifty.

The layout takes about a week to get used to, but once you get used to it you can never go back to other layouts. I have all of my boards with Control and Caps switched, and if I can I get them all with the diamond arrows too. Such a nice layout once you give it a try

Tried it....did not like it. It just was not for me......
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: potatobot on Thu, 25 August 2016, 22:13:50
Still confused whether to get a 65% or a 75% layout. which one do you guys suggest?

I just noticed that most laptop keyboards are 75%  :))

Im real positive about needing dedicated arrow keys, for the f-keys tho, im not so sure.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Fri, 26 August 2016, 03:40:05
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...
Try a HHKB. Much nicer. I went from 87u 55g to HHKBT, and I don't use the 55g anymore.

I also do not care for the HHKB layout......but they do look nifty.

The layout takes about a week to get used to, but once you get used to it you can never go back to other layouts. I have all of my boards with Control and Caps switched, and if I can I get them all with the diamond arrows too. Such a nice layout once you give it a try

I tried the layout for a day, until I found that to do a sequence like Ctrl-C, Ctrl-Shift-F, Crtl-V I would have to change which finger I pushed Ctrl with in the middle of the sequence. That's when I noped out of the swapped Ctrl-Caps scene.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Moistgun on Fri, 26 August 2016, 09:11:47
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...
Try a HHKB. Much nicer. I went from 87u 55g to HHKBT, and I don't use the 55g anymore.

I also do not care for the HHKB layout......but they do look nifty.

The layout takes about a week to get used to, but once you get used to it you can never go back to other layouts. I have all of my boards with Control and Caps switched, and if I can I get them all with the diamond arrows too. Such a nice layout once you give it a try

I tried the layout for a day, until I found that to do a sequence like Ctrl-C, Ctrl-Shift-F, Crtl-V I would have to change which finger I pushed Ctrl with in the middle of the sequence. That's when I noped out of the swapped Ctrl-Caps scene.

I don't understand?

C, F, and V are all right next to eachother.
You should just be able to hold control with your pinky and press all three

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 26 August 2016, 09:52:09
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...
Try a HHKB. Much nicer. I went from 87u 55g to HHKBT, and I don't use the 55g anymore.

I also do not care for the HHKB layout......but they do look nifty.

The layout takes about a week to get used to, but once you get used to it you can never go back to other layouts. I have all of my boards with Control and Caps switched, and if I can I get them all with the diamond arrows too. Such a nice layout once you give it a try

I tried the layout for a day, until I found that to do a sequence like Ctrl-C, Ctrl-Shift-F, Crtl-V I would have to change which finger I pushed Ctrl with in the middle of the sequence. That's when I noped out of the swapped Ctrl-Caps scene.

I don't understand?

C, F, and V are all right next to eachother.
You should just be able to hold control with your pinky and press all three

I swapped caps lock for ctrl months ago but I keep forgetting to try it since I still have my bottom left ctrl. But yea, it's easy to reach in either spot IMO.

ctrl + shift + esc (remapped for gnome system monitor), ctrl + alt + up/down, ctrl + 1/4, ctrl + w, ctrl + tab.. ohh ctrl + tab is really nice in the hhkb config
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sat, 27 August 2016, 09:56:35
Still confused whether to get a 65% or a 75% layout. which one do you guys suggest?

I just noticed that most laptop keyboards are 75%  :))

Im real positive about needing dedicated arrow keys, for the f-keys tho, im not so sure.

My preference is for a 60 or 65% keyboard.  I do like dedicated arrow keys, but it's nice when they are included on the home row and you don't have to move your hand or look at your board to access them.  You could also get a 60% board and have a separate numberpad including arrow keys and have the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 27 August 2016, 10:33:05
Still confused whether to get a 65% or a 75% layout. which one do you guys suggest?

I just noticed that most laptop keyboards are 75%  :))

Im real positive about needing dedicated arrow keys, for the f-keys tho, im not so sure.

Have you ever tried the Space-Fn concept? If you have not, it is advisable to try it and to see if you can use it, if so maybe a sixty layout is for you; otherwise you should go with Fox or FC-660 similar layouts.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jakejake on Sat, 27 August 2016, 19:11:28
I don't like the look of RGB keyboards, I'm not a purist or anything. I just think it looks tacky to see a rainbow of glowing colors under the keys. It might be functional for programmed hotkeys, but all of the photos look blown out and I would rather have more options for keycaps without needing doubleshot illuminated graphics.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Sat, 27 August 2016, 19:38:19
I don't like the look of RGB keyboards, I'm not a purist or anything. I just think it looks tacky to see a rainbow of glowing colors under the keys. It might be functional for programmed hotkeys, but all of the photos look blown out and I would rather have more options for keycaps without needing doubleshot illuminated graphics.
Yeah **** LEDs, or do you mean specifically RGB :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: UnFocused on Sat, 27 August 2016, 20:03:15
I really don't like aluminum keyboards anymore.

I prefer plastic cases. To me they feel more durable (if dropped) and I like the extra flex.

I've never heard of anyone actually liking flex in a keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jakejake on Sat, 27 August 2016, 20:14:53
I don't like the look of RGB keyboards, I'm not a purist or anything. I just think it looks tacky to see a rainbow of glowing colors under the keys. It might be functional for programmed hotkeys, but all of the photos look blown out and I would rather have more options for keycaps without needing doubleshot illuminated graphics.
Yeah **** LEDs, or do you mean specifically RGB :))

I could do without leds in general, but RGB is especially ugly to me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Sat, 27 August 2016, 20:57:13
Hypersphere rings are awful (sorry mr. hypersphere, just think the Topre OEM variant is 1000x better)

75% layout is overrated

thin keycaps are really nice on clicky switches



I really don't like aluminum keyboards anymore.

I prefer plastic cases. To me they feel more durable (if dropped) and I like the extra flex.

I've never heard of anyone actually liking flex in a keyboard.

This would depend on the type of key switch being used. I would not want flex in a linear switch keyboard, or a plate mount clicky switch keyboard. I would want some in a PCB mount (or half-plate) keyboard with tactile switches, to increase tactility. My Filco Majestouch with browns has a bit of flex and feels great to type on (even though it has full plate).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 28 August 2016, 03:23:23
*sobs with shame*

I'm starting to prefer MX Blues over my Model M. I know just saying that made me feel sick but it's true.

Model M just feels good to use for very long periods of typing, but MX Blues feel more well rounded for my needs and are way lighter.

Maybe I just need to get my hands on a SMK Monterey board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 28 August 2016, 03:39:08
Hypersphere rings are awful (sorry mr. hypersphere, just think the Topre OEM variant is 1000x better)

75% layout is overrated

thin keycaps are really nice on clicky switches



I really don't like aluminum keyboards anymore.

I prefer plastic cases. To me they feel more durable (if dropped) and I like the extra flex.

I've never heard of anyone actually liking flex in a keyboard.

This would depend on the type of key switch being used. I would not want flex in a linear switch keyboard, or a plate mount clicky switch keyboard. I would want some in a PCB mount (or half-plate) keyboard with tactile switches, to increase tactility. My Filco Majestouch with browns has a bit of flex and feels great to type on (even though it has full plate).

Why do you consider hypersheres washers awful?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 28 August 2016, 03:41:42
I think that buckling springs are too heavy and noisy.

If all the click comes from the spring the touches the inside of the stem, I don't understand why it can't be silenced.

Also... No cherry mx adapters.... What is it? A keyboard for people with bad taste?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: emdude on Sun, 28 August 2016, 03:55:42
I think that buckling springs are too heavy and noisy.

If all the click comes from the spring the touches the inside of the stem, I don't understand why it can't be silenced.

Also... No cherry mx adapters.... What is it? A keyboard for people with bad taste?

I agree that the weighting of buckling springs can kinda suck (at least for the membrane version), depending on condition.

Grease can be used to silence the switch, IBM did this with their 'Soft Touch' Model Ms, but I don't think I've heard of anyone attempting to reproduce this.

Also, Cherry MX adapters are being developed in a project that is ongoing on DT..  Due to the scope of the project, that part of it won't be happening for some time though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: balotz on Sun, 28 August 2016, 06:36:33
I think that buckling springs are too heavy and noisy.

If all the click comes from the spring the touches the inside of the stem, I don't understand why it can't be silenced.

Also... No cherry mx adapters.... What is it? A keyboard for people with bad taste?

I agree that the weighting of buckling springs can kinda suck (at least for the membrane version), depending on condition.

Grease can be used to silence the switch, IBM did this with their 'Soft Touch' Model Ms, but I don't think I've heard of anyone attempting to reproduce this.

Also, Cherry MX adapters are being developed in a project that is ongoing on DT..  Due to the scope of the project, that part of it won't be happening for some time though.

I used "ultra floss" to quieten the springs on my M2, and it worked very well. The tactility is still there but the click sound is muffled and the ping is practically gone.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 28 August 2016, 06:40:25
I think that buckling springs are too heavy and noisy.

If all the click comes from the spring the touches the inside of the stem, I don't understand why it can't be silenced.

Also... No cherry mx adapters.... What is it? A keyboard for people with bad taste?

I agree that the weighting of buckling springs can kinda suck (at least for the membrane version), depending on condition.

Grease can be used to silence the switch, IBM did this with their 'Soft Touch' Model Ms, but I don't think I've heard of anyone attempting to reproduce this.

Also, Cherry MX adapters are being developed in a project that is ongoing on DT..  Due to the scope of the project, that part of it won't be happening for some time though.

I used "ultra floss" to quieten the springs on my M2, and it worked very well. The tactility is still there but the click sound is muffled and the ping is practically gone.

The dental floss mod is called ultra floss? Or did you use a specific brand of floss that works better?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 28 August 2016, 07:02:04
I think that buckling springs are too heavy and noisy.

If all the click comes from the spring the touches the inside of the stem, I don't understand why it can't be silenced.

Also... No cherry mx adapters.... What is it? A keyboard for people with bad taste?

I agree that the weighting of buckling springs can kinda suck (at least for the membrane version), depending on condition.

Grease can be used to silence the switch, IBM did this with their 'Soft Touch' Model Ms, but I don't think I've heard of anyone attempting to reproduce this.

Also, Cherry MX adapters are being developed in a project that is ongoing on DT..  Due to the scope of the project, that part of it won't be happening for some time though.

I used "ultra floss" to quieten the springs on my M2, and it worked very well. The tactility is still there but the click sound is muffled and the ping is practically gone.

The dental floss mod is called ultra floss? Or did you use a specific brand of floss that works better?

maybe this one? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=9761.0
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: balotz on Sun, 28 August 2016, 07:02:12
I think that buckling springs are too heavy and noisy.

If all the click comes from the spring the touches the inside of the stem, I don't understand why it can't be silenced.

Also... No cherry mx adapters.... What is it? A keyboard for people with bad taste?

I agree that the weighting of buckling springs can kinda suck (at least for the membrane version), depending on condition.

Grease can be used to silence the switch, IBM did this with their 'Soft Touch' Model Ms, but I don't think I've heard of anyone attempting to reproduce this.

Also, Cherry MX adapters are being developed in a project that is ongoing on DT..  Due to the scope of the project, that part of it won't be happening for some time though.

I used "ultra floss" to quieten the springs on my M2, and it worked very well. The tactility is still there but the click sound is muffled and the ping is practically gone.

The dental floss mod is called ultra floss? Or did you use a specific brand of floss that works better?

You can use any 'spongy' type floss - the thinner ones probably wouldn't work. The one I used is called 'Ultra Floss', made by Oral B, which is readily available in the UK (and perhaps elsewhere). I think some others have used 'Super Floss' which is similar.

It's an easy mod which is reversible and very 'clean', compared to greasing the springs. I found the ideal length of each piece of floss is around 13mm, which when inserted into a spring leaves a tiny bit hanging out. Once I had the first reference piece, I cut one of those metal tie wires (that are often wrapped around network cables etc to keep them tidy) to the same length and used that as a guide for cutting the other 100 pieces of floss.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: balotz on Sun, 28 August 2016, 07:04:24
I think that buckling springs are too heavy and noisy.

If all the click comes from the spring the touches the inside of the stem, I don't understand why it can't be silenced.

Also... No cherry mx adapters.... What is it? A keyboard for people with bad taste?

I agree that the weighting of buckling springs can kinda suck (at least for the membrane version), depending on condition.

Grease can be used to silence the switch, IBM did this with their 'Soft Touch' Model Ms, but I don't think I've heard of anyone attempting to reproduce this.

Also, Cherry MX adapters are being developed in a project that is ongoing on DT..  Due to the scope of the project, that part of it won't be happening for some time though.

I used "ultra floss" to quieten the springs on my M2, and it worked very well. The tactility is still there but the click sound is muffled and the ping is practically gone.

The dental floss mod is called ultra floss? Or did you use a specific brand of floss that works better?

maybe this one? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=9761.0

I used this:

(http://www.dental-health-advice.com/images/Ultrafloss.jpg)

It's better in that the whole roll of floss is 'spongy'.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 28 August 2016, 07:56:35
I think that buckling springs are too heavy and noisy.

If all the click comes from the spring the touches the inside of the stem, I don't understand why it can't be silenced.

Also... No cherry mx adapters.... What is it? A keyboard for people with bad taste?

I agree that the weighting of buckling springs can kinda suck (at least for the membrane version), depending on condition.

Grease can be used to silence the switch, IBM did this with their 'Soft Touch' Model Ms, but I don't think I've heard of anyone attempting to reproduce this.

Also, Cherry MX adapters are being developed in a project that is ongoing on DT..  Due to the scope of the project, that part of it won't be happening for some time though.

I used "ultra floss" to quieten the springs on my M2, and it worked very well. The tactility is still there but the click sound is muffled and the ping is practically gone.

The dental floss mod is called ultra floss? Or did you use a specific brand of floss that works better?

maybe this one? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=9761.0

I used this:

Show Image
(http://www.dental-health-advice.com/images/Ultrafloss.jpg)


It's better in that the whole roll of floss is 'spongy'.

Ohhhhh, I see now. Lightweight and more like actual soundproofing material. I need to make a note of this for future use. Cheers :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 28 August 2016, 08:44:54
I don't like the look of RGB keyboards, I'm not a purist or anything. I just think it looks tacky to see a rainbow of glowing colors under the keys. It might be functional for programmed hotkeys, but all of the photos look blown out and I would rather have more options for keycaps without needing doubleshot illuminated graphics.
couldnt agree more, rgb backlighting is pretty disgusting. Single color backlighting done in a tasteful way and not too bright is a nice look though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Screwdriver on Sun, 28 August 2016, 09:31:39
I don't like the look of RGB keyboards, I'm not a purist or anything. I just think it looks tacky to see a rainbow of glowing colors under the keys. It might be functional for programmed hotkeys, but all of the photos look blown out and I would rather have more options for keycaps without needing doubleshot illuminated graphics.
couldnt agree more, rgb backlighting is pretty disgusting. Single color backlighting done in a tasteful way and not too bright is a nice look though.

But that is what RGB allows. You can choose one of a million colors that fits your mood, style, rig...one that is easy on your eyes and then adjust the brightness. To a color that is both tasteful (subjective) and not too bright (also subjective).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 28 August 2016, 09:41:30
I don't like the look of RGB keyboards, I'm not a purist or anything. I just think it looks tacky to see a rainbow of glowing colors under the keys. It might be functional for programmed hotkeys, but all of the photos look blown out and I would rather have more options for keycaps without needing doubleshot illuminated graphics.
couldnt agree more, rgb backlighting is pretty disgusting. Single color backlighting done in a tasteful way and not too bright is a nice look though.

But that is what RGB allows. You can choose one of a million colors that fits your mood, style, rig...one that is easy on your eyes and then adjust the brightness. To a color that is both tasteful (subjective) and not too bright (also subjective).
It also allows abominations like this.
http://imgur.com/gallery/H9IFI
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: spwath on Sun, 28 August 2016, 10:16:37
Not many people like the layout I made
(https://linustechtips.com/main/uploads/monthly_2016_08/20160827_115145.thumb.jpg.1d3da391c514421f0e4b9fc64b564b2c.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 28 August 2016, 10:17:33
Not many people like the layout I made
Show Image
(https://linustechtips.com/main/uploads/monthly_2016_08/20160827_115145.thumb.jpg.1d3da391c514421f0e4b9fc64b564b2c.jpg)

I think its really cool, even though im not a fan of ergos or ortholinears
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: spwath on Sun, 28 August 2016, 10:21:06
Not many people like the layout I made
Show Image
(https://linustechtips.com/main/uploads/monthly_2016_08/20160827_115145.thumb.jpg.1d3da391c514421f0e4b9fc64b564b2c.jpg)

I think its really cool, even though im not a fan of ergos or ortholinears
Yeah, im going to have to get used to the ortholinearness of it. Still make mistakes now.
But, its not even half done. Need to connect teensy to right half, and do all the wiring on left half.
I think its really pretty though. When its done, Ill get to retire my failing apple adjustable keyboard. In order to get the number 4, i have to hit the key like 5 times. and my 99 key is messed up and double presses.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zombimuncha on Sun, 28 August 2016, 15:17:28
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...
Try a HHKB. Much nicer. I went from 87u 55g to HHKBT, and I don't use the 55g anymore.

I also do not care for the HHKB layout......but they do look nifty.

The layout takes about a week to get used to, but once you get used to it you can never go back to other layouts. I have all of my boards with Control and Caps switched, and if I can I get them all with the diamond arrows too. Such a nice layout once you give it a try

I tried the layout for a day, until I found that to do a sequence like Ctrl-C, Ctrl-Shift-F, Crtl-V I would have to change which finger I pushed Ctrl with in the middle of the sequence. That's when I noped out of the swapped Ctrl-Caps scene.

I don't understand?

C, F, and V are all right next to eachother.
You should just be able to hold control with your pinky and press all three

It starts out fine with the pinky on Ctrl for Ctrl-C, but then for Ctrl-Shift-F I have to move my pinky down to Shift and hit Ctrl with my ring finger.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clankgy1 on Tue, 30 August 2016, 00:26:45
Demik was nice enough to let me borrow his lubed and silenced HHKB for a test drive as I considered having the same work done on mine.

I HATE LUBED AND SILENCED HHKBs.  Not a popular opinion, but I found the lubed/silenced HHKB lacked the very noise characteristics I like about the HHKB, the keys felt mushy, and the reduced key travel was noticeable.  My suggestion would be to try such a board before inflicting this kind of mod on it unless you enjoy the prospect of eternal disappointment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 30 August 2016, 05:41:39
Demik was nice enough to let me borrow his lubed and silenced HHKB for a test drive as I considered having the same work done on mine.

I HATE LUBED AND SILENCED HHKBs.  Not a popular opinion, but I found the lubed/silenced HHKB lacked the very noise characteristics I like about the HHKB, the keys felt mushy, and the reduced key travel was noticeable.  My suggestion would be to try such a board before inflicting this kind of mod on it unless you enjoy the prospect of eternal disappointment.

silenced with hypershpere washers or with landing pads?

landing pads are way thicker
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clankgy1 on Tue, 30 August 2016, 15:39:54
Demik was nice enough to let me borrow his lubed and silenced HHKB for a test drive as I considered having the same work done on mine.

I HATE LUBED AND SILENCED HHKBs.  Not a popular opinion, but I found the lubed/silenced HHKB lacked the very noise characteristics I like about the HHKB, the keys felt mushy, and the reduced key travel was noticeable.  My suggestion would be to try such a board before inflicting this kind of mod on it unless you enjoy the prospect of eternal disappointment.

silenced with hypershpere washers or with landing pads?

landing pads are way thicker

No idea on specifics of mods.  I didnt' care for it, and am thankful my HHKB has full thock. :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 30 August 2016, 16:23:51
Topre is way over-hyped.

After reading all the praise, I bought an 87U 55g and all I can say is meh...
Try a HHKB. Much nicer. I went from 87u 55g to HHKBT, and I don't use the 55g anymore.

I also do not care for the HHKB layout......but they do look nifty.

The layout takes about a week to get used to, but once you get used to it you can never go back to other layouts. I have all of my boards with Control and Caps switched, and if I can I get them all with the diamond arrows too. Such a nice layout once you give it a try

Untrue.  I had Sun keyboards that I used for my primary job which were in the HHKB layout.  I gleefully went back to a standard ANSI board after months straight on what is the HHKB layout.  As a layout designed to work with UNIX and vi, I found it worse than ANSI for those specific purposes.

Also, the HHKB lacks a lot of things like arrow keys and function keys not on a second layer - less ergonomic for me as the Fn Num combinations create more pain than simply moving my hand a little bit further up to hit that function key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: potatobot on Tue, 30 August 2016, 23:04:45
Have you ever tried the Space-Fn concept? If you have not, it is advisable to try it and to see if you can use it, if so maybe a sixty layout is for you; otherwise you should go with Fox or FC-660 similar layouts.
Im not really familiar with the Space-FN concept, im not too fond with having too many fn layers too. Yeah im opting for something like a 66key or 68key. I guess i wont miss the Function keys too much compared to the dedicated arrows.

My preference is for a 60 or 65% keyboard.  I do like dedicated arrow keys, but it's nice when they are included on the home row and you don't have to move your hand or look at your board to access them.  You could also get a 60% board and have a separate numberpad including arrow keys and have the best of both worlds.

I was looking at cheaper 66-68-keys that doesnt look like va68 or fc660 or MF 68.

I prefer the layout of WF, RS, TADA? maybe? hehe i guess ill have to wait for more reviews.

the separate numpad is a no go for me i want 1 single keyboard for my needs  :thumb:

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 14:35:40
I like full size keyboards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 14:45:53
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 15:02:45
I like full size keyboards

due 101% is best size

Is that like an AEK style? I've never heard of 101% :P Or do you mean like 101 key style? I would agree with that, I love wkl layout
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 15:07:13
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: captsis on Sun, 25 September 2016, 01:05:55
Razer keyboards arent that bad if you get one for cheap

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: potatobot on Sun, 25 September 2016, 05:08:53
Razer keyboards arent that bad if you get one for cheap

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Nah id rather be spending my small amount of cash on something else tho.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keyladding on Mon, 26 September 2016, 09:06:17
Razer keyboards aren't that bad if you pay a lot for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: y11971alex on Mon, 26 September 2016, 18:58:53
IBM rubber domes are better than Cherry MX Browns
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 18:59:37
IBM rubber domes are better than Cherry MX Browns
anything is better than mx browns
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 26 September 2016, 20:43:21
IBM rubber domes are better than Cherry MX Browns
anything is better than mx browns

MX blues for starters.  I'd rather be on rubber domes.  Though, to be fair to blues, I haven't tried greens yet which are everything I don't like about blues, but with the added weight I also don't like.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 20:45:12
IBM rubber domes are better than Cherry MX Browns
anything is better than mx browns

MX blues for starters.  I'd rather be on rubber domes.  Though, to be fair to blues, I haven't tried greens yet which are everything I don't like about blues, but with the added weight I also don't like.
True. Anything is better than cherry switches with the exception of clears.  I would rather type on a scissor switch or a good quality rubberdome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 26 September 2016, 20:49:07
IBM rubber domes are better than Cherry MX Browns
anything is better than mx browns

MX blues for starters.  I'd rather be on rubber domes.  Though, to be fair to blues, I haven't tried greens yet which are everything I don't like about blues, but with the added weight I also don't like.
True. Anything is better than cherry switches with the exception of clears.  I would rather type on a scissor switch or a good quality rubberdome.

At the moment, my favorite switches are MX reds.  Would love to try out some hall effect switches if they ever manage to get them into production.  Haven't tried Topre, though I'm more a linear switch fan.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 20:50:24
IBM rubber domes are better than Cherry MX Browns
anything is better than mx browns

MX blues for starters.  I'd rather be on rubber domes.  Though, to be fair to blues, I haven't tried greens yet which are everything I don't like about blues, but with the added weight I also don't like.
True. Anything is better than cherry switches with the exception of clears.  I would rather type on a scissor switch or a good quality rubberdome.

At the moment, my favorite switches are MX reds.  Would love to try out some hall effect switches if they ever manage to get them into production.  Haven't tried Topre, though I'm more a linear switch fan.
Try alps SKCL green and never use mx reds again
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 26 September 2016, 23:05:13
IBM rubber domes are better than Cherry MX Browns
anything is better than mx browns

MX blues for starters.  I'd rather be on rubber domes.  Though, to be fair to blues, I haven't tried greens yet which are everything I don't like about blues, but with the added weight I also don't like.
True. Anything is better than cherry switches with the exception of clears.  I would rather type on a scissor switch or a good quality rubberdome.

At the moment, my favorite switches are MX reds.  Would love to try out some hall effect switches if they ever manage to get them into production.  Haven't tried Topre, though I'm more a linear switch fan.
Try alps SKCL green and never use mx reds again


Need some MX sliders or something there so I can us my MX compatible caps.  Really want to try Gateron reds and yellows to be honest.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 27 September 2016, 21:53:36
(http://i.imgur.com/NIdESsx.jpg)

Is this an opinion?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 30 September 2016, 09:14:56
Matias Clicky feels like I pulled the board out of a dumpster... and it's perfect... it is endgame.  Yet I still try others because what the hell else is there to do in life.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nickheller on Fri, 30 September 2016, 09:16:02
I liked my matias quiet clicks more than all the old / vintage alps switches I tried
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fictiouz on Fri, 30 September 2016, 09:18:26
I liked my matias quiet clicks more than all the old / vintage alps switches I tried

You also like MX Reds more than the sweet feel of cup rubber ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Moistgun on Fri, 30 September 2016, 09:20:31
I liked my matias quiet clicks more than all the old / vintage alps switches I tried

You also like MX Reds more than the sweet feel of cup rubber ;)

I prefer hydro over another keyboard. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 15:10:42
I liked my matias quiet clicks more than all the old / vintage alps switches I tried
*pukes*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 17:11:11
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 01 October 2016, 12:15:36
I've never tried matias, but I can't imagine them being very good compared to real SKCM
Not even wrong…
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tesyu on Mon, 03 October 2016, 12:51:47
I agree with your opinion on HHKB and topre.
But I think 60% and arrow keys are compatible,such as XD60,Pure pro.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vagabond on Mon, 03 October 2016, 13:26:04
eBay artisans are fairly priced
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 13:33:25
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zacheadams on Mon, 03 October 2016, 19:45:54
eBay artisans are fairly priced

I just wish there were more listings.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 05 October 2016, 02:13:19
keyboard is just keyboard
$5 rubberdome is enough
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mushman on Sun, 09 October 2016, 17:00:20
keyboard is just keyboard
$5 rubberdome is enough

Agreed.  Wish they made a tenkeyless K120 or DT35.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kittenpolice on Tue, 11 October 2016, 21:27:00
Does the fact that the stems / top of the switches are exposed here have a name? Whatever this phenomenon is called, I hate it and am bothered by keyboards that have it.
(http://i.imgur.com/fPi6CF7.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mushman on Tue, 11 October 2016, 21:42:00
Does the fact that the stems / top of the switches are exposed here have a name?

It's referred to as "floating keys design" or "viki style" in South Korea.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 11 October 2016, 21:45:40
I have read names like Floating-key design

Ups! someone already posted the same, :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eksuen on Tue, 11 October 2016, 23:37:57
Does the fact that the stems / top of the switches are exposed here have a name? Whatever this phenomenon is called, I hate it and am bothered by keyboards that have it.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/fPi6CF7.jpg)


I don't like it either. I think it changes aesthetics and the sound of typing for the worse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Tue, 11 October 2016, 23:51:26
I think floating key designs can be nice in some cases, but I too prefer high profile cases. As stated, they have better acoustics and eliminate that "naked," incomplete look that some of these floating-key boards can have.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kittenpolice on Fri, 14 October 2016, 09:06:46
Does the fact that the stems / top of the switches are exposed here have a name?

It's referred to as "floating keys design" or "viki style" in South Korea.

I have read names like Floating-key design

Ups! someone already posted the same, :thumb:
Ah thank you for telling me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 14 October 2016, 09:13:36
Does the fact that the stems / top of the switches are exposed here have a name?

It's referred to as "floating keys design" or "viki style" in South Korea.

I have read names like Floating-key design

Ups! someone already posted the same, :thumb:
Ah thank you for telling me.

I've read blog posts and forum posts that describe it as a 'low profile case' (floating key). afaik there is no 'high profile case', just a regular profile and low profile.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Fri, 14 October 2016, 09:30:21
I've read blog posts and forum posts that describe it as a 'low profile case' (floating key). afaik there is no 'high profile case', just a regular profile and low profile.

I think that's all relative to current trends and standards though. Low profile in the 1970s was not low profile in the 1980s, and the vintage boards of the 1980s are certainly not considered low-profile today.

Relative to the floating key look, you can consider cases with walls that conceal the switches to be high profile, and it's a good and easy way to make the distinction especially if the majority of aftermarket cases for a particular layout happen to be low profile, like with 60% keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 09:45:20
I too hate low profile 60% cases, but high profile aluminium 60% cases are sooo expensive. The 15$ plastic ones from china rent too bad though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 14 October 2016, 09:54:59
I've read blog posts and forum posts that describe it as a 'low profile case' (floating key). afaik there is no 'high profile case', just a regular profile and low profile.

I think that's all relative to current trends and standards though. Low profile in the 1970s was not low profile in the 1980s, and the vintage boards of the 1980s are certainly not considered low-profile today.

Relative to the floating key look, you can consider cases with walls that conceal the switches to be high profile, and it's a good and easy way to make the distinction especially if the majority of aftermarket cases for a particular layout happen to be low profile, like with 60% keyboards.

Sorry, yea you're totally right. I was thinking along the lines of modern keyboard design rather than the full gauntlet of keyboard case height profiles.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blackriver on Fri, 14 October 2016, 22:33:47
1. RGB is so overhyped, it looks like garbage if you use more than like 3 colors and costs an arm and a leg.
2. After testing any mechanical keyboard ever, I regret having ever typed on a Razer.
3. Alps switches are ******g sick!
4. Keytronic rubber domes actually don't feel half bad.

 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 22:54:59
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 22:56:06
1. RGB is so overhyped, it looks like garbage if you use more than like 3 colors and costs an arm and a leg.
2. After testing any mechanical keyboard ever, I regret having ever typed on a Razer.
3. Alps switches are ******g sick!
4. Keytronic rubber domes actually don't feel half bad.

maybe not #3
maybe yes #3
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fublamchu on Fri, 14 October 2016, 23:15:08
1. RGB is so overhyped, it looks like garbage if you use more than like 3 colors and costs an arm and a leg.
2. After testing any mechanical keyboard ever, I regret having ever typed on a Razer.
3. Alps switches are ******g sick!
4. Keytronic rubber domes actually don't feel half bad.

maybe not #3

are any of these particularly unpopular? (not quite sure about #4)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 14 October 2016, 23:15:52
1. RGB is so overhyped, it looks like garbage if you use more than like 3 colors and costs an arm and a leg.
2. After testing any mechanical keyboard ever, I regret having ever typed on a Razer.
3. Alps switches are ******g sick!
4. Keytronic rubber domes actually don't feel half bad.

maybe not #3

Classic Alps>>>>>>>MX>>Matias Alps
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 00:26:39
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sat, 15 October 2016, 02:28:08
1. RGB is so overhyped, it looks like garbage if you use more than like 3 colors and costs an arm and a leg.
2. After testing any mechanical keyboard ever, I regret having ever typed on a Razer.
3. Alps switches are ******g sick!
4. Keytronic rubber domes actually don't feel half bad.

Yes, my man, Alps switches are indeed ****ing sick. :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blackriver on Sat, 15 October 2016, 10:40:12

are any of these particularly unpopular? (not quite sure about #4)
[/quote]

Well, if you ask the gaming community 1 & 2 are unpopular. But on here they might be a more common opinion lol.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 15 October 2016, 10:44:09
I think scissor switch modifiers are awesome. I love how easy they are to take apart and put back together. :blank:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 15 October 2016, 10:49:19
I think scissor switch modifiers are awesome. I love how easy they are to take apart and put back together. :blank:


They are not, they tend to bend or brake easily.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 15 October 2016, 10:58:58
I think scissor switch modifiers are awesome. I love how easy they are to take apart and put back together. :blank:


They are not, they tend to bend or brake easily.

Yup. This keyboard is melting my face off
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Sat, 15 October 2016, 11:48:15
I like scissor switch laptop keyboards. :) At least the ones from my old laptops that aren't isolated island-style and more like volcano style or whatever.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: streetwizzur on Wed, 19 October 2016, 14:00:44
variable topre is nice for gaming
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DanB on Wed, 19 October 2016, 21:17:28
SA is overrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cribbit on Wed, 19 October 2016, 21:29:42
1. RGB is so overhyped, it looks like garbage if you use more than like 3 colors and costs an arm and a leg.

I'm not seeing it be that overpriced anymore. Fullsize board was $40 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85303.0), I got a noppoo choc mini rgb for $70 the other day, and we're about to see a big jump in custom boards with RGB backlighting.

I do agree that it's not much more than a fun party trick, but it's a damn pretty party trick.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 20 October 2016, 15:22:44
I think scissor switch modifiers are awesome. I love how easy they are to take apart and put back together. :blank:

Actually couple of years back I want raging coz my Mac hang and I lost hours of work. Pulled out half my keys from my Apple Aluminum Keyboard. Simply pushed them back and all was fine  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 21 October 2016, 04:07:46
This thread is a lot of fun!

Instead of seeing it as just a 'haters' thread, I read lots of very wise opinions of veteran keyboard users and enthusiasts. I think these discussions deserve even a sub-forum called "Unpopular keyboard opinions" so that each 'unpopular' topic (e.g. about usability, or manufacturers' trends) can get more focused discussions in their own threads, instead of all buried under this one single thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 21 October 2016, 07:03:59
I think scissor switch modifiers are awesome. I love how easy they are to take apart and put back together. :blank:

Actually couple of years back I want raging coz my Mac hang and I lost hours of work. Pulled out half my keys from my Apple Aluminum Keyboard. Simply pushed them back and all was fine  :eek:

Try that on an HP Elite Wireless :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 21 October 2016, 19:19:35
I think scissor switch modifiers are awesome. I love how easy they are to take apart and put back together. :blank:

Actually couple of years back I want raging coz my Mac hang and I lost hours of work. Pulled out half my keys from my Apple Aluminum Keyboard. Simply pushed them back and all was fine  :eek:

Try that on an HP Elite Wireless :eek:

Raged once on a Trust keyboard. Had to buy a new one. Fortunately, I don't rage anymore.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cicada on Sat, 22 October 2016, 01:17:00
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sat, 22 October 2016, 11:41:25
I hate the num pad, I can't see why anyone would use it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Sat, 22 October 2016, 11:52:35
I hate the num pad, I can't see why anyone would use it.
Data entry? You don't need to move your hand whereas you do with the numrow. You can keep one hand on a numpad, and the other on your mouse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sat, 22 October 2016, 11:56:03
wow, must be ergonomic  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 22 October 2016, 12:14:25
I switched my mouse hand partly because of the numpad. I'm not a number cruncher but I do use the numpad for viewport switching when I'm doodling in the 3D. Today was my first go at doodling with the mouse in my left hand, it was pretty neat. I've 'photoshopped' with my left hand before but for me, that rarely requires the numpad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sat, 22 October 2016, 12:20:10
eh, I want to get an external numpad and get it were the macros are and vice versa.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sat, 22 October 2016, 20:51:52
MX clears arelike black switches on steroids
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sat, 22 October 2016, 20:59:05
When you buy keycaps, just switch out the wasd not the WHOLE FRICKING BOARD  :mad:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: potatobot on Sat, 22 October 2016, 20:59:20
MX clears arelike black switches on steroids

WHUT? clears are tactile mate while blacks are linear. You cant say they are just heavier than blacks coz they have a tactile bump.

agree on them being too heavy tho.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sat, 22 October 2016, 21:00:16
I meant the heaviness, not the fact that they were lenier. They are good for rts's however.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: potatobot on Sat, 22 October 2016, 21:01:26
When you buy keycaps, just switch out the wasd not the WHOLE FRICKING BOARD  :mad:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50202.0;topicseen

and on the side note, you can buy wasd caps/gamer caps .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: potatobot on Sat, 22 October 2016, 21:02:43
I meant the heaviness, not the fact that they were lenier. They are good for rts's however.

Then you should say they are like mx browns on steroids.

coz blacks are linear, and saying blacks with steroids would mean a linear switch which is heavier. duh
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sat, 22 October 2016, 21:03:32
Oh I love the white ones corsair sells for their strafe boards, but having puppies and skulls on every key is like a macbook sticker gone wrong.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sat, 22 October 2016, 21:05:09
Good point about the browns, i'd say they are like non clicky blues on steroids like a brown on steroids like you said.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: potatobot on Sat, 22 October 2016, 21:11:16
Oh I love the white ones corsair sells for their strafe boards, but having puppies and skulls on every key is like a macbook sticker gone wrong.

I like swaping out some keys but for the ones i use all the time, id like to keep them simple. I have 1 artisan which is on the scroll key for that reason.

Good point about the browns, i'd say they are like non clicky blues on steroids like a brown on steroids like you said.

You're making it hard for yourself mate. To make it simple for you.

Lighter switch - Heavier Switch

MX red - MX black  : Linear Switches

MX blue - MX green : Clicky switches

MX brown - MX clear : Tactile switches

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sat, 22 October 2016, 21:18:01
thank you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xv on Fri, 28 October 2016, 11:18:07
1. I love ABS, especially if it's doubleshot
2. I love typing on MX Reds
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Sat, 29 October 2016, 19:58:33
Quickfire Rapids are exceptionally over rated as a cheap starter board, they have iffy soldering and i'm not insanely impressed.  I would FAR recommend a Ganss G.S 87 before the QFR as it's basically a cheap FILCO.

Seriously though QFR's I feel should be more like $40-50 boards IMO, I have had one before and I totally think the Ganss while lesser known takes a giant dump over the often recommended QFR for budget starter boards. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crapbag on Sun, 30 October 2016, 17:59:23
I meant the heaviness, not the fact that they were lenier. They are good for rts's however.

I disagree. Lenier switches are great.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atarione on Sun, 30 October 2016, 18:12:23
I love me some MX-REDS... that is right I said it..   I have been rocking my Filco MT2 TKL w/ PBT doubleshots and dampers every day for the last nearly 2 years.

frameless keyboards do nothing for me

keyboards with gradient backlights are quite silly looking.

TKL is the greatest of all keyboard form factors
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 30 October 2016, 20:35:47
I like scissor switch laptop keyboards. :) At least the ones from my old laptops that aren't isolated island-style and more like volcano style or whatever.

Agreed. These aren't terrible to get stuck using if you have to, can be quite pleasant.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cribbit on Sun, 30 October 2016, 21:13:20
I like scissor switch laptop keyboards. :) At least the ones from my old laptops that aren't isolated island-style and more like volcano style or whatever.

Agreed. These aren't terrible to get stuck using if you have to, can be quite pleasant.

Apple's aluminum body keyboards (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000V07N9U) are the only scissor switches I really like. It's a shame the caps get dirty so easily. And that they have the apple pricetag.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Shaussman on Mon, 31 October 2016, 15:54:14
SA is overrated.

This, easily the ugliest common profile.

Also, 60%s as daily drivers are incredibly inconvenient and overrated
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 04 November 2016, 13:54:31
While Korean TKLs are really nice keyboards, the TKL layout in general is a big waste of space. A 75% layout has all the keys of a TLK and smaller. An 1800/96 key layout is barely larger and includes arrow keys and a numpad.

Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 04 November 2016, 14:10:54
While Korean TKLs are really nice keyboards, the TKL layout in general is a big waste of space. A 75% layout has all the keys of a TLK and smaller. An 1800/96 key layout is barely larger and includes arrow keys and a numpad.
Tkls look cooler than 75% boards though. Dont try to talk me out of buying a Kustom! :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: slot demon on Wed, 09 November 2016, 03:39:17
Tactile alps switches dont feel good also all matias switches. ABS doubleshot feels good, pbt in the most cases not.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: drevyek on Thu, 10 November 2016, 02:16:44
Tactile alps switches dont feel good also all matias switches. ABS doubleshot feels good, pbt in the most cases not.
Alps switches are very susceptible to tarnish. When they get dirty, or are off by a bit, they can be really quite bad. Rough, uneven, wobbly (especially Matias). However, good Alps switches, that have been cleaned or are NOS, are simply amazing.

I also find some of the switches (creams and blacks specifically) very rough and unpleasant. I haven't had a very good experience with them at all. I assume I'll find some good ones, but the examples that I've used so far have been lackluster at best. Orange Alps, however, are easily some of the best switches I have ever used. They rank with F Buckling Springs in favourability for me. I recommend trying them out, if you haven't. Much smoother, and much cleaner than a lot of the simplified or even later SKCMs.

However, your opinion on caps is indefensible :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 10 November 2016, 02:41:12
1. RGB is so overhyped, it looks like garbage if you use more than like 3 colors and costs an arm and a leg.
2. After testing any mechanical keyboard ever, I regret having ever typed on a Razer.
3. Alps switches are ******g sick!
4. Keytronic rubber domes actually don't feel half bad.

They're pretty good!

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 10 November 2016, 05:22:43
Tactile alps switches dont feel good also all matias switches. ABS doubleshot feels good, pbt in the most cases not.
Alps switches are very susceptible to tarnish. When they get dirty, or are off by a bit, they can be really quite bad. Rough, uneven, wobbly (especially Matias). However, good Alps switches, that have been cleaned or are NOS, are simply amazing.

I also find some of the switches (creams and blacks specifically) very rough and unpleasant. I haven't had a very good experience with them at all. I assume I'll find some good ones, but the examples that I've used so far have been lackluster at best. Orange Alps, however, are easily some of the best switches I have ever used. They rank with F Buckling Springs in favourability for me. I recommend trying them out, if you haven't. Much smoother, and much cleaner than a lot of the simplified or even later SKCMs.

However, your opinion on caps is indefensible :p
Do you mean dampened creams? Because undampened creams are the smoothest sharpest tactility Ive ever felt.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: drevyek on Thu, 10 November 2016, 16:00:43
Tactile alps switches dont feel good also all matias switches. ABS doubleshot feels good, pbt in the most cases not.
Alps switches are very susceptible to tarnish. When they get dirty, or are off by a bit, they can be really quite bad. Rough, uneven, wobbly (especially Matias). However, good Alps switches, that have been cleaned or are NOS, are simply amazing.

I also find some of the switches (creams and blacks specifically) very rough and unpleasant. I haven't had a very good experience with them at all. I assume I'll find some good ones, but the examples that I've used so far have been lackluster at best. Orange Alps, however, are easily some of the best switches I have ever used. They rank with F Buckling Springs in favourability for me. I recommend trying them out, if you haven't. Much smoother, and much cleaner than a lot of the simplified or even later SKCMs.

However, your opinion on caps is indefensible :p
Do you mean dampened creams? Because undampened creams are the smoothest sharpest tactility Ive ever felt.
Damped creams, yeah. Never used undamped creams, as of yet. Hopefully someday...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: danwomansan on Sat, 12 November 2016, 14:37:26
Clicks are overrated and browns actually look attractive to me.

Spacebar rattle is a more acceptable sound than cap clacks.

Scissor switches are genuinely good when new.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 12 November 2016, 14:46:24
Clicks are overrated and browns actually look attractive to me.

Spacebar rattle is a more acceptable sound than cap clacks.

Scissor switches are genuinely good when new.

I removed the scissor switch stabilizer wires on my 'HP Elite' spacebar and it's not that bad without them tbh
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dubious on Thu, 17 November 2016, 18:03:50
Jukebox SA are the ugliest keycaps in existence.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Thu, 17 November 2016, 18:04:38
Jukebox SA are the ugliest keycaps in existence.

They're in my top 5.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 23 November 2016, 01:09:03
With 65%, 75%, and 1800-esque custom boards it looks really stupid to do a bottom row of |1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1.5|1.5|.

Just do a winkeyless row of four 1.5u mods and a 7u spacebar, much better aesthetics.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 23 November 2016, 04:14:03
With 65%, 75%, and 1800-esque custom boards it looks really stupid to do a bottom row of |1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1.5|1.5|.

Just do a winkeyless row of four 1.5u mods and a 7u spacebar, much better aesthetics.

Ditching all the function keys and windows keys?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Wed, 23 November 2016, 06:45:07
With 65%, 75%, and 1800-esque custom boards it looks really stupid to do a bottom row of |1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1.5|1.5|.

Just do a winkeyless row of four 1.5u mods and a 7u spacebar, much better aesthetics.

Gross.

|1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1|1|1|  <== infinitely superior to everything you just said.

The 7u spacebar is an obnoxious waste of keyboard real estate.  I'm pretty sure it was invented as a cruel joke.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asgeirtj on Wed, 23 November 2016, 07:22:45
With 65%, 75%, and 1800-esque custom boards it looks really stupid to do a bottom row of |1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1.5|1.5|.

Just do a winkeyless row of four 1.5u mods and a 7u spacebar, much better aesthetics.

Gross.

|1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1|1|1|  <== infinitely superior to everything you just said.

The 7u spacebar is an obnoxious waste of keyboard real estate.  I'm pretty sure it was invented as a cruel joke.

Best aesthetics and functionality: 1,5x1x(blocker)1,5x7x1,5x1x(blocker)1,5x.  I use the right ctrl for winkey so I don't need the winkey but it's not a dealbreaker if I have to have a 1x winkey, it can be used for caps lock for example, just pros and cons, else the caps lock is prtscr or something.  But with the blocker it is the best aesthetics since 1x function keys are ugly and if you have an alu case it showcases the case more (mind that the blocker must be a part of the case not, a standalone blocker which you insert and remove, that's digusting).  Also, very important, is that 1,5x1x1,5x makes for the best ALT reachability since it's closest to your thumb, you can also you og sets with it which have A profile which makes it even easier to reach.  This is an AWESOME privilege since who doesn't alt tab a million times a day?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Wed, 23 November 2016, 08:43:33
With 65%, 75%, and 1800-esque custom boards it looks really stupid to do a bottom row of |1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1.5|1.5|.

Just do a winkeyless row of four 1.5u mods and a 7u spacebar, much better aesthetics.

Gross.

|1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1|1|1|  <== infinitely superior to everything you just said.

The 7u spacebar is an obnoxious waste of keyboard real estate.  I'm pretty sure it was invented as a cruel joke.

Best aesthetics and functionality: 1,5x1x(blocker)1,5x7x1,5x1x(blocker)1,5x.  I use the right ctrl for winkey so I don't need the winkey but it's not a dealbreaker if I have to have a 1x winkey, it can be used for caps lock for example, just pros and cons, else the caps lock is prtscr or something.  But with the blocker it is the best aesthetics since 1x function keys are ugly and if you have an alu case it showcases the case more (mind that the blocker must be a part of the case not, a standalone blocker which you insert and remove, that's digusting).  Also, very important, is that 1,5x1x1,5x makes for the best ALT reachability since it's closest to your thumb, you can also you og sets with it which have A profile which makes it even easier to reach.  This is an AWESOME privilege since who doesn't alt tab a million times a day?

Ugh, blockers.  Don't even get me started. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Wed, 23 November 2016, 08:48:53
I have multiple.

1: Topres are terrible switches, they feel like a mushy mx browns, that I like. :D

2: Levovo scissor switches on their thinkpad laptops feel like total mush- they start to get stiff after one month of use.

3. Blue and green switches are too clicky for my tastes.

4. Linear reds aren't that bad, they just feel non tactile and are good for typing.

5. Razer greens (greetech browns painted green) are actually quite pleseant, while their blue clones and mecha-membranes suck.

6. I prefer tkl.

7. Cooler Master's Micro USB Cables for their boards, specficcly the rapid i, are awful.

Hope u agree!  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 23 November 2016, 08:57:55
With 65%, 75%, and 1800-esque custom boards it looks really stupid to do a bottom row of |1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1.5|1.5|.

Just do a winkeyless row of four 1.5u mods and a 7u spacebar, much better aesthetics.

Gross.

|1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1|1|1|  <== infinitely superior to everything you just said.

The 7u spacebar is an obnoxious waste of keyboard real estate.  I'm pretty sure it was invented as a cruel joke.

What keys do you assign to your bottom row? (in Windows or Linux)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Wed, 23 November 2016, 09:47:51
With 65%, 75%, and 1800-esque custom boards it looks really stupid to do a bottom row of |1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1.5|1.5|.

Just do a winkeyless row of four 1.5u mods and a 7u spacebar, much better aesthetics.

Gross.

|1.25|1.25|1.25|   6.25   |1|1|1|  <== infinitely superior to everything you just said.

The 7u spacebar is an obnoxious waste of keyboard real estate.  I'm pretty sure it was invented as a cruel joke.

What keys do you assign to your bottom row? (in Windows or Linux)

It varies.  Usually:

[CTRL] [WIN] [ALT] [   SPACE   ] [ALT] [MENU/APP] [FN]

Especially if the rest of the row is the bottom arrow keys (as in 75%).

If it's a standard 104 or TKL ANSI 125 then I use the default.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: drevyek on Wed, 23 November 2016, 14:54:33
2: Levovo scissor switches on their thinkpad laptops feel like total mush- they start to get stiff after one month of use.
The keycaps are actually one of the best parts- they have a subtle cylindrical shape to them, makiing them a lot nicer to type on. the switches themselves are, I would say, par. A bit heavy for my tastes, and a bit spongy at the bottom (typing this on a thinkpad board right now). However, the tactility is really quite good- very sharp. Better than most laptop keyboards. Plus, the layout is really nice- having the pgup/pgdn keys right by the cursor keys is very helpful. If only they allowed the board to be remapped properly (aka, using the fn key for more then media keys).
 
3. Blue and green switches are too clicky for my tastes.
Too high pitched. They sound grating after using them for extended periods, and the click doesn't really add anything. I'm all about that BS click though- exactly at the point of actuation, too.

6. I prefer tkl.
Sure. I've moved away from Full sized recently, mostly for the added desk space and mouse access. Not too unpopular an opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 23 November 2016, 15:02:38
@Data don't you have a GH122? Why are you worried about space haha
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 23 November 2016, 16:16:01
Here are some really unpopular opinions, especially around here:

1. Anything IBM made after their (sphericals) beamspring era is prosaic trash only fit for incineration. Even burial in a landfill is too good for it.

2. Same thing applies to anything that copies the aesthetics of #1.

3. Same thing applies to cylindrical keycaps of any era, from any manufacturer.

4. TKLs are a waste of decent mechanical keyboard components.

5. Full-board RGB backlighting is a crime against humanity.

6. Unsilenced switches are an inexcusable compromise of quality for cost savings.

7. "Ergonomics", as applied to keyboards, is nothing but a marketing gimmick.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Wed, 23 November 2016, 16:17:57
Here are some really unpopular opinions, especially around here:

1. Anything IBM made after their (sphericals) beamspring era is prosaic trash only fit for incineration. Even burial in a landfill is too good for it.

2. Same thing applies to anything that copies the aesthetics of #1.

3. Same thing applies to cylindrical keycaps of any era, from any manufacturer.

4. TKLs are a waste of decent mechanical keyboard components.

5. Full-board RGB backlighting is a crime against humanity.

6. Unsilenced switches are an inexcusable compromise of quality for cost savings.

7. "Ergonomics", as applied to keyboards, is nothing but a marketing gimmick.

bruh
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 23 November 2016, 16:20:39
Hey, I figure if you're gonna have controversial opinions, have them with passion and conviction!  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cribbit on Thu, 24 November 2016, 07:51:29
7. "Ergonomics", as applied to keyboards, is nothing but a marketing gimmick.

Where do you draw the line? The word 'ergonomic' being used in advertising material for the board? Because otherwise any change to a keyboard could be considered ergonomics, even just mechanical switches over rubber domes.

My view is that ergonomics is a widely abused marketing term and that people need to be better in touch with what works for them. Not everyone's hands/arms/wrists/posture has the same 'correct' spot.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Thu, 24 November 2016, 08:44:02
7. "Ergonomics", as applied to keyboards, is nothing but a marketing gimmick.

Where do you draw the line? The word 'ergonomic' being used in advertising material for the board? Because otherwise any change to a keyboard could be considered ergonomics, even just mechanical switches over rubber domes.

My view is that ergonomics is a widely abused marketing term and that people need to be better in touch with what works for them. Not everyone's hands/arms/wrists/posture has the same 'correct' spot.
What it should be is ergonomic like this, or anotgher way, ergonomic for one person. like i love tkl but hate any other layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Fri, 25 November 2016, 15:03:48
@Data don't you have a GH122? Why are you worried about space haha

Well yeah.  And I've thrown as many keys as I can on it.  It's a celebration of excessive macro keys and even has a function layer!

That was kind of my point: blockers and obnoxious space bars waste real estate that could otherwise be used for functional keys.  Desk space is secondary to keyboard efficiency.   :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Fri, 25 November 2016, 21:59:43
Here are some more opinions that will drive yall nuts:

1. any board below 65% is a waste.

2. more than 3 artisians are absurd.

4. Ergonomic kbs are stupid.

5. Alps and torpes are mush.

6. MX white has an id problem.

7. All switches must be greased

8. greens, clears, and blacks are dumb.

9. One must never combined mech and membrane.

10. I don't know what dorkmuffin came up with mx blue, but I hate it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 25 November 2016, 22:05:52
Here are some more opinions that will drive yall nuts:

1. any board below 65% is a waste.

2. more than 3 artisians are absurd.

4. Ergonomic kbs are stupid.

5. Alps and torpes are mush.

6. MX white has an id problem.

7. All switches must be greased

8. greens, clears, and blacks are dumb.

9. One must never combined mech and membrane.

10. I don't know what dorkmuffin came up with mx blue, but I hate it.
Agreed with everything but 1, (I believe that any board below 60% is useless) 5 (have you even tried a real alps board? dont say matias is real alps :P) and 7 (what?)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Fri, 25 November 2016, 22:10:21
Here are some more opinions that will drive yall nuts:

1. any board below 65% is a waste.

2. more than 3 artisians are absurd.

4. Ergonomic kbs are stupid.

5. Alps and torpes are mush.

6. MX white has an id problem.

7. All switches must be greased

8. greens, clears, and blacks are dumb.

9. One must never combined mech and membrane.

10. I don't know what dorkmuffin came up with mx blue, but I hate it.
Agreed with everything but 1, (I believe that any board below 60% is useless) 5 (have you even tried a real alps board? dont say matias is real alps :P) and 7 (what?)

Yes, and it sucked and I grease my browns.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 25 November 2016, 22:42:24
I have an unreasonable dislike for GMK Icon Mods.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 25 November 2016, 22:43:32
I have an unreasonable dislike for GMK Icon Mods.
icon mods are ugly for the most part so I can understand why
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sat, 26 November 2016, 00:36:00
I think the only switch I've tried that felt like "mush" was the weak Chinese clone of the Topre switch that you find in keyboards like the Noppoo EC108Pro and its Royal Kludge siblings. If we're talking tactile switches, my personal preference is for Topre. The Matias Quiet Click isn't bad, but it doesn't feel as refined to me as a silenced Topre. And the less said about MX brown the better; it just feel like a broken MX red to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: loud_asian on Sat, 26 November 2016, 02:01:27
I have an unreasonable dislike for GMK Icon Mods.

**** yeah dude

also DSA is dumb, uniform SA is dumb too. Sculpted SA is ok
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Data on Sun, 27 November 2016, 16:03:43
I have an unreasonable dislike for GMK Icon Mods.

**** yeah dude

also DSA is dumb, uniform SA is dumb too. Sculpted SA is ok

Yeah, some people just aren't man enough for flat profiles. Accept your limitations. It's OK.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pabile on Sun, 27 November 2016, 20:21:49
Best tactile i tried is blue alps with tactile leaf from bamboo black alps. It has the tactility of a clicky alps without the click and 2x bump.

40% keyboards should be more common, cheaper and should marketed as switch testers... with hot swap-able switches please. Those currently available switch testers with 4 to 6 switches are no good.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Sun, 27 November 2016, 20:33:37
MX Brown is the best all-around switch. Anyone who thinks differently is a retard.

I had a Zenith ZKB-2 and sold that **** since my MX Browns felt superior. Some dumbass in California (probably a Hillary supporter) who I sold it to can play with it. I certainly felt like an idiot for buying it when I already had superior MX Browns boards. Thank gOD for ebay and Green Alps hype that allowed me to get my money back on that.

By the way, that thing pings like a MF. You thought MX Clear boards were bad? You ain't heard nothing like this. My KUL ES-87 is a stealth board compared to the ZKB-2.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Sun, 27 November 2016, 20:46:19
MX Brown is the best all-around switch. Anyone who thinks differently is a retard.

I'm just glad someone finally had the balls to say it...brown switches matter. #BSM
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Sun, 27 November 2016, 23:38:09
MX Brown is the best all-around switch. Anyone who thinks differently is a retard.

I'm just glad someone finally had the balls to say it...brown switches matter. #BSM

Yep:

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 27 November 2016, 23:39:22
glad someone appreciates **** browns :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Sun, 27 November 2016, 23:43:27
glad someone appreciates **** browns :p

Yeah, you know I acknowledge that Model F is the superior "TYPING" experience, but you know what? MODEL F SOUNDS ANNOYING AS **** AND SUCKS FOR ANYTHING NOT STRICTLY TYPING RELATED.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 1391406 on Sun, 27 November 2016, 23:43:52
ClickClack's are ugly. I wouldn't want one if someone gave them to me(except to resell).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 27 November 2016, 23:45:13
glad someone appreciates **** browns :p

Yeah, you know I acknowledge that Model F is the superior "TYPING" experience, but you know what? MODEL F SOUNDS ANNOYING AS **** AND SUCKS FOR ANYTHING NOT STRICTLY TYPING RELATED.
I resent that. youre missing the fact that model Fs are great home defense weapons as well as typing tools :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Sun, 27 November 2016, 23:48:34
glad someone appreciates **** browns :p

Yeah, you know I acknowledge that Model F is the superior "TYPING" experience, but you know what? MODEL F SOUNDS ANNOYING AS **** AND SUCKS FOR ANYTHING NOT STRICTLY TYPING RELATED.
I resent that. youre missing the fact that model Fs are great home defense weapons as well as typing tools :)

Well of course. I have one in my bedroom ready to go for that ;)

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: consolation on Mon, 28 November 2016, 04:49:03
Mitsumi KPQ (eg.Unisys PCK101) hybrid switch keyboards, that you can pick up for a couple bucks in op-shops, feel like 45g silenced Topres that cost $300+.

Look familiar... (http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/CaptureLifePhotos/ibm%20model%20f/2011-01-18_14-46-32_563.jpg)

These Mitsumi KPQ-E99YC https://is.gd/5x8KxR (https://is.gd/5x8KxR) are sold under a few different brands, Commodore, Unisys, etc... keys are dyesub, with legends being of varying quality. Seems like the older you find them, the sharper the legend.


P.S. While looking for pictures (too lazy to snap my own), I found this http://www.elecshopper.com/mitsumi-kpq-e99yc-keyboard.html (http://www.elecshopper.com/mitsumi-kpq-e99yc-keyboard.html) maybe it's time to empty the keyboard bins at my local thrift shops; there must be some hipsters, too cool for Topre, that still want "that feeling of oneness with cup rubber."
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 28 November 2016, 12:08:41
glad someone appreciates **** browns :p

Yeah, you know I acknowledge that Model F is the superior "TYPING" experience, but you know what? MODEL F SOUNDS ANNOYING AS **** AND SUCKS FOR ANYTHING NOT STRICTLY TYPING RELATED.
I resent that. youre missing the fact that model Fs are great home defense weapons as well as typing tools :)

They are particularly well suited to being used as sledgehammers for smashing Model Ms into tiny little pieces. If you do it right, you can get about a 5-to-1 kill ratio before the Model F becomes just a pile of tiny little pieces itself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dario on Tue, 29 November 2016, 06:17:00
After my maniacal phase of keyboardist life, spending money and buying all kinds of custom keycaps and cables, I just ended up selling them off, all of them, and just using my plain old boring Realforce with blank black keycaps. This is what I should have been doing from the start. Most of the custom keys with monsters and robots and **** like that are incredibly ugly anyway, I can't believe males older than 12 are buying these things.

I feel like I'm 40 in my keyboard life. You know what I mean, don't do orgies anymore or wild sex positions, just have a wife and a marriage that works. We do missionary sometimes, but that's it, nothing wild about it. I can do other things in life now. Like sleeping.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 04 December 2016, 03:53:56
Ortholinear is retarded
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vegs on Sun, 04 December 2016, 04:06:36
MX browns
(http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/c/cb/Totalbiscuit-TANK20130629-220151.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Corsa1r on Sun, 04 December 2016, 10:11:49
After my maniacal phase of keyboardist life, spending money and buying all kinds of custom keycaps and cables, I just ended up selling them off, all of them, and just using my plain old boring Realforce with blank black keycaps. This is what I should have been doing from the start. Most of the custom keys with monsters and robots and **** like that are incredibly ugly anyway, I can't believe males older than 12 are buying these things.

I feel like I'm 40 in my keyboard life. You know what I mean, don't do orgies anymore or wild sex positions, just have a wife and a marriage that works. We do missionary sometimes, but that's it, nothing wild about it. I can do other things in life now. Like sleeping.
:thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Sun, 04 December 2016, 18:02:37
1. I think the ISO layout is the most retarded thing ever made. It less ergonomic than ANSI, less pretty than ANSI, and it makes finding caps a nightmare

2. TKLs are baffling to me. Why the **** would anyone use one? 75% keyboard have the same amount of keys in a significantly smaller footprint. And if you want a keyboard that is larger than a 75 and smaller than full-size, why not just get a 96 or TK? Not to mention they're ****ing ugly.

3. MX browns feel like ass.

4.Topre boards are $300 rubber domes

5. IMO Model Ms aren't as well built as other boards, albeit are still enjoyable

6. I enjoy RBG backlighting and/or underglow

7. Cherry boards are built like ****.

8. Not sure if unpopular but: DSA > SA > Cherry/SP DCS > OEM. 96 > Full-size > 60 > 75 > ~65 >>>>>> TKL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 04 December 2016, 18:07:31
1. I think the ISO layout is the most retarded thing ever made. It less ergonomic than ANSI, less pretty than ANSI, and it makes finding caps a nightmare

2. TKLs are baffling to me. Why the **** would anyone use one? 75% keyboard have the same amount of keys in a significantly smaller footprint. And if you want a keyboard that is larger than a 75 and smaller than full-size, why not just get a 96 or TK? Not to mention they're ****ing ugly.

3. MX browns feel like ass.

4.Topre boards are $300 rubber domes

5. IMO Model Ms aren't as well built as other boards, albeit are still enjoyable

6. I enjoy RBG backlighting and/or underglow

7. Cherry boards are built like ****.

8. Not sure if unpopular but: DSA > SA > Cherry/SP DCS > OEM. 96 > Full-size > 60 > 75 > ~65 >>>>>> TKL
agree with everything but 2,6 and 8
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Sun, 04 December 2016, 18:10:40


Quote from: mike52787
agree with everything but 2,6 and 8

Out of curiosity what's your take on 8
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 04 December 2016, 18:16:38


Quote from: mike52787
agree with everything but 2,6 and 8

Out of curiosity what's your take on 8
Cherry>OEM>DCS>SA>DSA

TKL>122>96>Fullsize>75>65>60>45>40
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clappingcactus on Sun, 04 December 2016, 19:50:08
If my post pisses off ten people then I will have succeeded!

1] From exclusively a typing experience viewpoint, every switch ever made is inferior to a lubed 55g Topre.

2] Every Topre board ever made has a fatal flaw that ruins the whole experience otherwise. Maybe not the μTRON. On second thought, even the μTRON.

3] Hands down, the worst switches to type on are Cherry MX Blues.

4] Any colour light shine-through lighting is unacceptable and gaudy. RGB underlighting is acceptable and can pull together a whole system theme.

5] Owning multiple keyboards in the same layout is a moronic decision. No properly functioning human being will ever think to themselves 'I currently need the minimalism of a 60% keyboard BUT I specifically want a particular switch right now'.

6] Boards under 75% in size are useless to do work on. Assuming reprogrammability, if you even use just two different software packages you run out of reasonable space to put macro keys way too quickly.

7] The only exception to #5: The only acceptable time to use a 60% layout is when writing a book.

8] With the only exception being SA Dasher, enough with the god-damn blue in custom keysets.

9] Cylindrical keycaps are dumb and pointless. All of them. There is not a single legitimate argument anyone can make to necessitate their existence.

10] Visible screws/nuts/bolts on a keyboard when seen from typing position are a design flaw.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jorgenslee on Sun, 04 December 2016, 19:59:39
1] From exclusively a typing experience viewpoint, every switch ever made is inferior to a lubed 55g Topre.
I'm curious to know what switches you have tried and use for more than a week or month.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clappingcactus on Sun, 04 December 2016, 20:06:54
1] From exclusively a typing experience viewpoint, every switch ever made is inferior to a lubed 55g Topre.
I'm curious to know what switches you have tried and use for more than a week or month.

Topre 45g, 55g. MX Clears, Blues, Browns, Greens, Reds. Gateron Browns. Buckling springs.

I get your secret point that really basically a month into using any keyboard the human brain is all 'well, this is great, I'm comfortable and used to it', but Topre switches (and to a much, much lesser extent MX Clears) are the only switches that a month into using them I had continued to be surprised by how much I liked them. It's not even how comfortable they are bottom out, but how comfortable they are when bouncing back.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sun, 04 December 2016, 20:07:00
If my post pisses off ten people then I will have succeeded!


2] Every Topre board ever made has a fatal flaw that ruins the whole experience otherwise. Maybe not the μTRON. On second thought, even the μTRON.

6] Boards under 75% in size are useless to do work on. Assuming reprogrammability, if you even use just two different software packages you run out of reasonable space to put macro keys way too quickly.

9] Cylindrical keycaps are dumb and pointless. All of them. There is not a single legitimate argument anyone can make to necessitate their existence.

10] Visible screws/nuts/bolts on a keyboard when seen from typing position are a design flaw.
I wanted to share my opinions so I kept the opinions I agreed with.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Sun, 04 December 2016, 20:15:54
Not sure why you would ruin the perfect 55g topper switch with LUBE, but at least you've come to your senses and realized that 55g topper > ALL.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Mon, 05 December 2016, 17:49:00
Remember when I said I thought using a 30% as a daily driver was feasible?


https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65341.msg2190557#msg2190557 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65341.msg2190557#msg2190557)

(https://i.imgur.com/vckza88.jpg)

That was what I was talking about.

Told ya so.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 05 December 2016, 18:06:42
Remember when I said I thought using a 30% as a daily driver was feasible?


https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65341.msg2190557#msg2190557 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65341.msg2190557#msg2190557)

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/vckza88.jpg)


That was what I was talking about.

Told ya so.

Nice board! and that big enter key makes it to look even nicer. You should post the alternate layers that you are using.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zcmy on Mon, 05 December 2016, 18:15:01
Remember when I said I thought using a 30% as a daily driver was feasible?


https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65341.msg2190557#msg2190557 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65341.msg2190557#msg2190557)

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/vckza88.jpg)


That was what I was talking about.

Told ya so.

Nice board! and that big enter key makes it to look even nicer. You should post the alternate layers that you are using.

This actually isn't my build. Credit goes to someone over at the reddit mechanical keyboards chat group.

Here's the full build log by the guy who did it.https://imgur.com/a/lV7LR (https://imgur.com/a/lV7LR)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kominyetska on Mon, 05 December 2016, 18:28:07
5] Owning multiple keyboards in the same layout is a moronic decision. No properly functioning human being will ever think to themselves 'I currently need the minimalism of a 60% keyboard BUT I specifically want a particular switch right now'.

Unless they're in different locations (like having 1 at work and 1 at home).

10] Visible screws/nuts/bolts on a keyboard when seen from typing position are a design flaw.

ABSO-****ING-LUTELY
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clankgy1 on Thu, 08 December 2016, 14:49:59
A programmed Pok3r w/MX clears and a DSA keyset > non Hasu'ed HHKB Pro 2 even know:

1. HHKB is 1000% better in terms of feels
2. The Pok3r stabs rattle worse than a 3rd world commuter train with people hanging out the windows, on the roof and the undercarriage.

Being able to do basic things like two finger CTRL-ALT-DELs and other sultry **** I've programmed in make laziness win over luxuious feels.  Now if I could just figure out how to have somebody completely stabilize both the keys and the stabs, it would be even better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Fri, 09 December 2016, 05:37:06
Mitsumi KPQ (eg.Unisys PCK101) hybrid switch keyboards, that you can pick up for a couple bucks in op-shops, feel like 45g silenced Topres that cost $300+.

Look familiar...
Show Image
(http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/CaptureLifePhotos/ibm%20model%20f/2011-01-18_14-46-32_563.jpg)


These Mitsumi KPQ-E99YC https://is.gd/5x8KxR (https://is.gd/5x8KxR) are sold under a few different brands, Commodore, Unisys, etc... keys are dyesub, with legends being of varying quality. Seems like the older you find them, the sharper the legend.


P.S. While looking for pictures (too lazy to snap my own), I found this http://www.elecshopper.com/mitsumi-kpq-e99yc-keyboard.html (http://www.elecshopper.com/mitsumi-kpq-e99yc-keyboard.html) maybe it's time to empty the keyboard bins at my local thrift shops; there must be some hipsters, too cool for Topre, that still want "that feeling of oneness with cup rubber."

They need cherry mx keycaps stems....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 09 December 2016, 09:15:25
After my maniacal phase of keyboardist life, spending money and buying all kinds of custom keycaps and cables, I just ended up selling them off, all of them, and just using my plain old boring Realforce with blank black keycaps. This is what I should have been doing from the start. Most of the custom keys with monsters and robots and **** like that are incredibly ugly anyway, I can't believe males older than 12 are buying these things.

I feel like I'm 40 in my keyboard life. You know what I mean, don't do orgies anymore or wild sex positions, just have a wife and a marriage that works. We do missionary sometimes, but that's it, nothing wild about it. I can do other things in life now. Like sleeping.

This summarizes the mental state of someone who reached the 'Endgame'.

After my last keyboard maniac phase, I sold every keyboard worthy or not-worthy to mention, and had only a ThinkPad left. With all the long wait and failures of various GB, I may have reached a partial 'Endgame' mental state before some of those merchandises actually arrive. I just need a keyboard that I feel 'home' to type on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: drevyek on Sat, 10 December 2016, 13:43:36
Mitsumi KPQ (eg.Unisys PCK101) hybrid switch keyboards, that you can pick up for a couple bucks in op-shops, feel like 45g silenced Topres that cost $300+.

Look familiar...
Show Image
(http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/CaptureLifePhotos/ibm%20model%20f/2011-01-18_14-46-32_563.jpg)


These Mitsumi KPQ-E99YC https://is.gd/5x8KxR (https://is.gd/5x8KxR) are sold under a few different brands, Commodore, Unisys, etc... keys are dyesub, with legends being of varying quality. Seems like the older you find them, the sharper the legend.


P.S. While looking for pictures (too lazy to snap my own), I found this http://www.elecshopper.com/mitsumi-kpq-e99yc-keyboard.html (http://www.elecshopper.com/mitsumi-kpq-e99yc-keyboard.html) maybe it's time to empty the keyboard bins at my local thrift shops; there must be some hipsters, too cool for Topre, that still want "that feeling of oneness with cup rubber."

They need cherry mx keycaps stems....
One way to do it is to put them on a BTC F&F board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 11 December 2016, 00:41:43
I don't even mind layouts with the bigass enter and 1u backspace anymore.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 11 December 2016, 08:30:09
I don't even mind layouts with the bigass enter and 1u backspace anymore.

1u backspace makes no sense. It is very hard to use. The minimum acceptable is 1.5u ala HHKB layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sun, 11 December 2016, 10:34:30
Low profile is the only profile!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Sun, 11 December 2016, 16:21:59
I don't even mind layouts with the bigass enter and 1u backspace anymore.

1u backspace makes no sense. It is very hard to use. The minimum acceptable is 1.5u ala HHKB layout.

1u backspace is perfect, if its under your thumb.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 11 December 2016, 16:23:53
Low profile is the only profile!
gross
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 11 December 2016, 18:26:51
I don't even mind layouts with the bigass enter and 1u backspace anymore.

1u backspace makes no sense. It is very hard to use. The minimum acceptable is 1.5u ala HHKB layout.

1u backspace is perfect, if its under your thumb.

Of course, on your smartphone keyboard.

Or maybe if you can foot type

(http://i.imgur.com/nrie7YW.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Mon, 12 December 2016, 00:08:42
I don't even mind layouts with the bigass enter and 1u backspace anymore.

1u backspace makes no sense. It is very hard to use. The minimum acceptable is 1.5u ala HHKB layout.

1u backspace is perfect, if its under your thumb.

Of course, on your smartphone keyboard.

Or maybe if you can foot type

Or your keyboard has a thumb arc, like the Keyboardio Model 01. Or a thumb cluster. Or a split space, like the Planck, and so on. For foot typing, a pedal is much better than an 1u key, mind you.

Don't be stuck in the seventies. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Thu, 15 December 2016, 08:35:57
Ortholinear is retarded

Everything but ortholinear is retardedly inefficient. Every board bigger than an Atomic/60% is a waste of space. Fite me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frosty on Thu, 15 December 2016, 08:50:40
low profile cases are so ugly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 15 December 2016, 08:51:05
low profile cases are so ugly
Agreed
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 15 December 2016, 09:40:04
low profile cases are so ugly
+1
They're like barebone in my eyes but without the structurally exposed style of barebone and they still cost quite some money.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 15 December 2016, 20:42:11
I don't even mind layouts with the bigass enter and 1u backspace anymore.

1u backspace makes no sense. It is very hard to use. The minimum acceptable is 1.5u ala HHKB layout.

1u backspace is perfect, if its under your thumb.

Of course, on your smartphone keyboard.

Or maybe if you can foot type

Or your keyboard has a thumb arc, like the Keyboardio Model 01. Or a thumb cluster. Or a split space, like the Planck, and so on. For foot typing, a pedal is much better than an 1u key, mind you.

Don't be stuck in the seventies. :p


We are stuck in the past. Mechanical keyboards are a matter of the history of computing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Entropia on Fri, 16 December 2016, 03:25:27
I'll tell you one of the most unpopular keyboard opinion ever: playing with WASD is a stupid mass trend, anti-ergonomic (the keys are not aligned and the middle finger sits between the W and the E), and it's just an improvised solution for those who don't have a large desk that allows your to move your keyboard to the left and use the numpad, which is the correct way to play first person games.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 16 December 2016, 04:21:54
Yea but--how am I suppose to access the F keys + shift/ctrl/tab/tilde/alt from the numpad? I'm not much of a CSGO player I'm more of an MMORPG kinda guy. I know of at least one game that needs F1-F8 + number row and then some.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Fri, 16 December 2016, 04:59:00
I'll tell you one of the most unpopular keyboard opinion ever: playing with WASD is a stupid mass trend, anti-ergonomic (the keys are not aligned and the middle finger sits between the W and the E), and it's just an improvised solution for those who don't have a large desk that allows your to move your keyboard to the left and use the numpad, which is the correct way to play first person games.

WASD is stupid yes, but the solution for most games isn't the numpad as csmertx pointed out, but to use an ortholinear with ESDF.

ESDF in general is highly superior to WASD.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: loud_asian on Fri, 16 December 2016, 09:23:43
The galaxy keysets are some of the ugliest things I've ever seen. They look like a ****ty jackson pollock painting
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clappingcactus on Fri, 16 December 2016, 13:02:25
The galaxy keysets are some of the ugliest things I've ever seen. They look like a ****ty jackson pollock painting

Agreed. Interestingly, though, I have a different opinion on them. They're a great stepping stone for appreciating abstract colour designs.

I have a friend who always disagrees with me when I show him something that's chaotic (like a pollock painting) and call it nice. He messaged me about the massdrop galaxy set and I told him I found it silly and garrish, only to have him tell me that it's the first time he 'understood' my appreciation of things of the sort.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Fri, 16 December 2016, 14:05:34
The galaxy keysets are some of the ugliest things I've ever seen. They look like a ****ty jackson pollock painting
they are pretty bad
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 16 December 2016, 18:43:14
The numpad would need more buttons available for me even for an FPS for it to be useful.  Even then, it places the thumb at an odd position so you're trading one type of ergonomic problem for another. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Fri, 16 December 2016, 19:01:51
The numpad would need more buttons available for me even for an FPS for it to be useful.  Even then, it places the thumb at an odd position so you're trading one type of ergonomic problem for another.
omg yes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 19 December 2016, 17:26:38
I don't understand why so many people are going so crazy over GMK 9009
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 19 December 2016, 18:02:45
After my maniacal phase of keyboardist life, spending money and buying all kinds of custom keycaps and cables, I just ended up selling them off, all of them, and just using my plain old boring Realforce with blank black keycaps. This is what I should have been doing from the start. Most of the custom keys with monsters and robots and **** like that are incredibly ugly anyway, I can't believe males older than 12 are buying these things.

I feel like I'm 40 in my keyboard life. You know what I mean, don't do orgies anymore or wild sex positions, just have a wife and a marriage that works. We do missionary sometimes, but that's it, nothing wild about it. I can do other things in life now. Like sleeping.

This summarizes the mental state of someone who reached the 'Endgame'.

After my last keyboard maniac phase, I sold every keyboard worthy or not-worthy to mention, and had only a ThinkPad left. With all the long wait and failures of various GB, I may have reached a partial 'Endgame' mental state before some of those merchandises actually arrive. I just need a keyboard that I feel 'home' to type on.

there's no endgame though, that's the point. the only board I use now is my hhkb, and it doesnt have half the features "my endgame" would have, **** I never even got around to hasu modding it or silencing it, but honestly im just burnt out. the only real endgame is being too lazy to give a ****.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 19 December 2016, 21:06:09
I don't understand why so many people are going so crazy over GMK 9009

This is my thought on a number of sets to be honest. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Tue, 20 December 2016, 01:35:52
1. RGB are retarded, white/violet/purple/blue Leds only. underglow are acceptable.
2. Topre 55g > everything else in topre switches
3. Cherry > MOD > gateron/zeal/whatever in MX compatible switches
4. i don't care what you guys saying about "ergonomic keyboards", split keyboard > everything else. my hand doesn't hurt anymore.
5. Ortholinear are retarded
6. fullsize are ok as long as the numpad are in the left. fullsize with right numpad are **** unless you're left handed.
7. TKL are overrated, 60% are overrated, 75%,66/68% are actually super ok. This is coming from person who had hhkb and pok3r.
8. why the **** are those ppl buying rainbow caps? the hell?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mavarina on Tue, 20 December 2016, 10:47:20
-The HHKB keyboard feels like cheap compared to other topre boards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Tue, 20 December 2016, 11:23:19
Too many aesthetically vanilla GMK GB's going on...

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sheepz on Tue, 20 December 2016, 12:42:10
cannot type on MX keyboard (tried with allmust all the colors out there) without O-rings on them
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keycapper on Wed, 28 December 2016, 22:26:45
Used to think for a long time (10 years, no less) that an ergonomic keyboard is a must, if you don't want your hands destroyed by the carpal syndrome.  Now typing on a standard layout keyboard, and I'm fine.  Ergonomic keyboards are overrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 29 December 2016, 10:27:08
Used to think for a long time (10 years, no less) that an ergonomic keyboard is a must, if you don't want your hands destroyed by the carpal syndrome.  Now typing on a standard layout keyboard, and I'm fine.  Ergonomic keyboards are overrated.
Anecdotal evidence…
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: falkentyne on Sun, 01 January 2017, 13:20:51
I'll tell you one of the most unpopular keyboard opinion ever: playing with WASD is a stupid mass trend, anti-ergonomic (the keys are not aligned and the middle finger sits between the W and the E), and it's just an improvised solution for those who don't have a large desk that allows your to move your keyboard to the left and use the numpad, which is the correct way to play first person games.

WASD is stupid yes, but the solution for most games isn't the numpad as csmertx pointed out, but to use an ortholinear with ESDF.

ESDF in general is highly superior to WASD.

I've been using ESDF since day 1, I guess since 1997.  I think since I stopped trying to use Thrustmaster Flightsticks in Quake 1 and Doom and Duke 3D...

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Sun, 01 January 2017, 16:36:45
Why does everybody hate on RGB? If done right (a la Duck Lightsaver)with well diffused underglow and paired with thick non shine thru caps like GMK or SP it can really tie together a build. Plus you can always set the color to a static one or just turn it off completely.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gungthar on Sun, 01 January 2017, 17:36:58
1. ISO is far superior to ANSI

2. 60% layouts make no sense to me outside of saving space on a small desk.

3. I have never found an MX switch I like. They all feel scratchy, and are easily outdone by many other switches including some rubber dome designs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Mon, 02 January 2017, 05:59:38
I agree about all MXs feeling scratchy .Red is the only one Haven't tried yet so I have high hopes.

The that makes LOL hard about cherry road board reviews is 3/4 of people are like WHY ARENT THEY BLUES????? As if 4/5 of the market wasn't blues.... let the red fans get what they can get  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Tue, 03 January 2017, 09:20:13
Why does everybody hate on RGB? If done right (a la Duck Lightsaver)with well diffused underglow and paired with thick non shine thru caps like GMK or SP it can really tie together a build. Plus you can always set the color to a static one or just turn it off completely.

I think it's being hated on because the functionality that's being marketed for it (flashy, sometimes reactive effects) are tacky and serve no practical purpose. But, I absolutely agree with you that it offers a key advantage by allowing you to choose the exact colour you want for static underglow/backlighting without swapping out LEDs.

And some effects can actually be useful in my eyes, especially when you're working with multiple layers. Changing the colour depending on the activated layer can be quite useful and IMO looks better than having indicator LEDs.

What's unnecessary is separate colour change for every single LED, having all LEDs show the same colour would suffice completely, but as addressable LEDs like the WS2812 are not that expensive and don't require additional driving circuitry, they're actually easier to implement.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 03 January 2017, 10:13:16
1. ISO is far superior to ANSI

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z212/blufftonkayak/Puking.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Tue, 03 January 2017, 10:58:21
1. ISO is far superior to ANSI

Show Image
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z212/blufftonkayak/Puking.gif)


I don't know why people hate iso so much. The extra key is very handy, I wouldn't be able to live without it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Tue, 03 January 2017, 22:10:52
I'll tell you one of the most unpopular keyboard opinion ever: playing with WASD is a stupid mass trend, anti-ergonomic (the keys are not aligned and the middle finger sits between the W and the E), and it's just an improvised solution for those who don't have a large desk that allows your to move your keyboard to the left and use the numpad, which is the correct way to play first person games.

I started gaming like that (many years ago) but find it doesn't really work at all due to the arrangement and number of keys in proximity, and how difficult it is to transition to typing while gaming.

A lot of FPS games these days have a lot of keys you need to be able to use.

As for the ergonomics of having the W key being slightly offset to the left, I find it resolves naturally when you move the keyboard to the left more and angle it inwards to the right. Because your fingers aren't all the same length, I find this works well -- my ring finger is longer than index, so the inward angle puts the A a bit further from the D and fixes the alignment of W.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: afrokobe on Tue, 03 January 2017, 22:27:23
I hate phelicia keycaps and gradient keycaps.  They look trash.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 03 January 2017, 22:55:36
1. ISO is far superior to ANSI

2. 60% layouts make no sense to me outside of saving space on a small desk.

3. I have never found an MX switch I like. They all feel scratchy, and are easily outdone by many other switches including some rubber dome designs.

My favorite board sports an XT layout ( AKA ANSI with ISO Enter) in a sixty format with MX Ergo Clears!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Wed, 04 January 2017, 02:25:05
My favorite board sports an XT layout ( AKA ANSI with ISO Enter) in a sixty format with MX Ergo Clears!

Isn't the XT layout a bigass enter with a split backspace, a bank of 10 f keys on the left side? Not really ANSI with an ISO. Also ISO is the most retarded layout ever made. Id rather use some weird antiquated terminal layout instead of that trash
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 05 January 2017, 17:51:50
everyone knows deep down that they'll never reach "endgame", this is really just a big money-spending orgy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minilov3 on Thu, 05 January 2017, 18:42:40
cannot type on MX keyboard (tried with allmust all the colors out there) without O-rings on them
tried all o-rings available to me
=> ****ty  stuffs, ****ed up all the good typing feelings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Thu, 05 January 2017, 18:45:31
everyone knows deep down that they'll never reach "endgame", this is really just a big money-spending orgy

If I don't reach endgame this year I think I'll need to build my own board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minilov3 on Fri, 06 January 2017, 03:32:07
1. silent red MX rules my world
2. keycap is just a waste of money, while money can be put to better use, no matter how much you have. broken world.
3. DSA? looks good, but it feels, well, probably laptop kb prof is the only worse one.
4.i don't know what i'm saying i just can't ****ing sleep.
5. maybe it's... nvm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minilov3 on Fri, 06 January 2017, 03:37:32
oh and one more thing. stupid artisan plastic kcs make me puke. yes they actually did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JackieOReally on Fri, 06 January 2017, 05:05:37
After typing on a HHKB2 for three years I think topre is overrated. It's just another switch. It's decent but has its own draw backs just like any other switch.

And I think a lot of enthusiasts hate on common switches and praise less common switches like alps purely out of desperation to stand out and seem more elite. When you see these people ranking switches it's usually the rarest to the most common. Coincidence?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 06 January 2017, 05:13:49
After typing on a HHKB2 for three years I think topre is overrated. It's just another switch. It's decent but has its own draw backs just like any other switch.

I type every day on topre and I couldn't agree with you more. It's probably my favorite switch, but I wouldn't say it blows everything else out of the water. All a matter of preference though. For some people I guess it is perfect.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: childofthehorn on Fri, 06 January 2017, 12:14:15
Function layer 1 keys need to be a 1.5u key just to the right of the spacebar.
The HHKB standard top-layer is best layout (other than the function layer key).
HHKB function layer is Hot Garbage
KBP V60 has best non-programmable function layer layout
6.25u space bars are too big, same with even 6u space bars. Why no 4u or 5u?
60% keyboards do not need dedicated arrows for anyone other than if you have other's "drive".
WASD arrows not as good as PL:" arrows (follows natural hand motion better).
G20 is worst keyboard keycap profile, followed by DSA
SA profile is best profile (1-2-3-4-3)
1.75u shift should be standard right shift.
1.25u left shift should be standard left shift with one 1u left function key to the left of it.
No one really needs more than a 75% layout (accountants can get a numpad OK)
Alps damped simple or Matias QC switches are still better than lubed Zealios.
Alps clicky or damped of any kind is better than all other switches in feels, even modded.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 07 January 2017, 00:12:08
G20 is worst keyboard keycap profile, followed by DSA
ayyyyy
SA profile is best profile (1-2-3-4-3)
ohh

1.75u shift should be standard right shift.
1.25u left shift should be standard left shift with one 1u left function key to the left of it.
easy with those hot takes lol
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Sat, 07 January 2017, 03:52:06
^^^ Sup  Middlesex County bro?

Is it an unpopular opinion to despise tactile clicks and only think linear switches are worth using?

I also think a switch that needs lube to work well is a switch that shouldn't get used. and 6.5x spacebar should be standard because it is superior

>>HHKB function layer is Hot Garbage
yup

>>G20 is worst keyboard keycap profile, followed by DSA
I don't see what so bad about DSA but G20 is for people who would use caps from $5 rubber domes if they could.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mousouchop on Sat, 07 January 2017, 09:20:45
As someone who's just getting into this stuff-- this is a somewhat comical and insightful thread. :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 07 January 2017, 09:26:17
My favorite board sports an XT layout ( AKA ANSI with ISO Enter) in a sixty format with MX Ergo Clears!

Isn't the XT layout a bigass enter with a split backspace, a bank of 10 f keys on the left side? Not really ANSI with an ISO. Also ISO is the most retarded layout ever made. Id rather use some weird antiquated terminal layout instead of that trash


The bigass enter is a different layout. The XT actually carries a vertical enter, but my implementation has an ISO Enter.


Original XT


(http://i.imgur.com/Od3a4wW.jpg)


My implementation


(http://i.imgur.com/VLlNJZp.jpg)


Another version


(http://i.imgur.com/FXlfIPG.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Sat, 07 January 2017, 09:31:03
Is it an unpopular opinion to despise tactile clicks and only think linear switches are worth using?
With the domination of Zealio at the minute, perhaps, but linears are better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minilov3 on Sat, 07 January 2017, 11:24:22
Is it an unpopular opinion to despise tactile clicks and only think linear switches are worth using?
With the domination of Zealio at the minute, perhaps, but linears are better.
linear > all xD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eratic on Sun, 08 January 2017, 12:04:47
Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps


Let me explain. MK noob here. I love the typing feel on my new Corsair Strafe MX Brown but HATE the keycaps. I've been looking around for "low profile" keycaps, all I can find are DSA ($$$) and even they don't look that they would be as comfortable as my work membrane board (Microsoft 600).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 08 January 2017, 12:36:00
Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps


Let me explain. MK noob here. I love the typing feel on my new Corsair Strafe MX Brown but HATE the keycaps. I've been looking around for "low profile" keycaps, all I can find are DSA ($$$) and even they don't look that they would be as comfortable as my work membrane board (Microsoft 600).

DSA profile keycap sets are some of the more affordable keycap sets in this hobby.
I know you prefer low profile but you can also check out the price tag of keycap sets in some other profiles.
Welcome to this hobby!  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hking0036 on Sun, 08 January 2017, 12:58:07
Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps


Let me explain. MK noob here. I love the typing feel on my new Corsair Strafe MX Brown but HATE the keycaps. I've been looking around for "low profile" keycaps, all I can find are DSA ($$$) and even they don't look that they would be as comfortable as my work membrane board (Microsoft 600).
If you want low profile DSA is fairly cheap so long as you're not looking for a crazy colorway. I think enjoypbt does cherry profile caps and those are about $70 for a full set, so those may be worth looking into. I think corsair commits the cardinal sin of screwing with the bottom row though. That seems to be kind of popular for some reason, Logitech did the same thing with their g710+ before they made their own switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 09 January 2017, 04:09:07
Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps
Doesn't make sense. See https://deskthority.net/wiki/Membrane_vs_rubber_dome
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 09 January 2017, 05:44:23
Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps
Doesn't make sense. See https://deskthority.net/wiki/Membrane_vs_rubber_dome

Didn't know that page.
I like the 2x2 table, pretty self-explanatory.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 09 January 2017, 20:09:00
oh and one more thing. stupid artisan plastic kcs make me puke. yes they actually did.

You're not supposed to eat them lol. But I agree, most of them look absolutely hideous. The only Artisans I can maybe approve of are properly colour coordinated dual-color mods that fit the profile. Those can look quite neat.

everyone knows deep down that they'll never reach "endgame", this is really just a big money-spending orgy

I strongly believe that I have an endgame. At least for keycaps I'm starting to realise that I won't ever buy one of those fancy keycap sets. I want orange and white blanks, that is 100% perfect. Keycap sets interest me on for like an hour and then when I look at them the next day I think to myself "but they don't look as good as what I already have".
Now I just need to figure out what profile is best for me and then I'm done with keycaps. Heresy, I know.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 10 January 2017, 14:40:10
Membrane keycaps > mechanical keycaps


Let me explain. MK noob here. I love the typing feel on my new Corsair Strafe MX Brown but HATE the keycaps. I've been looking around for "low profile" keycaps, all I can find are DSA ($$$) and even they don't look that they would be as comfortable as my work membrane board (Microsoft 600).

Then get a Cherry MX 3.0, you aren't going to find any decent sets that fit Corsair keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DRAZAH on Wed, 11 January 2017, 20:56:15
After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Wed, 11 January 2017, 21:13:49
After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

My theory is that they're a little too similar to standard rubber dome keyboards and have little customization, making a lot of the enthusiasts seek something a little more different and exciting.

It's like a car enthusiast being bored with a brand new Lexus because what they want is an imported JDM R34 Skyline.  :cool:

I personally think Topre is objectively the best switch overall, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone, especially the enthusiasts. It's not like I don't have a bunch of other boards to spice it up.  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 11 January 2017, 22:53:06
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Thu, 12 January 2017, 00:37:24
After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

My theory is that they're a little too similar to standard rubber dome keyboards and have little customization, making a lot of the enthusiasts seek something a little more different and exciting.

It's like a car enthusiast being bored with a brand new Lexus because what they want is an imported JDM R34 Skyline.  :cool:

I personally think Topre is objectively the best switch overall, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone, especially the enthusiasts. It's not like I don't have a bunch of other boards to spice it up.  :cool:

jealous of your R34, USA import laws stink

What's the problem? importing into the USA is easy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trenzafeeds on Thu, 12 January 2017, 02:15:11
What's the problem? importing into the USA is easy

not as much for cars
something something keeping car manufacturing jobs in the US
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Thu, 12 January 2017, 13:25:00
Unpopular opinion #635: we should stop calling keysets "<something> Dolch" just because the alphas are dark gray and the modifiers are medium gray, especially when the legends are not uniformly white and/or more than one or two keys are some bright color. I mean, c'mon, what would Volker think?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Thu, 12 January 2017, 13:38:40
What's the problem? importing into the USA is easy

not as much for cars
something something keeping car manufacturing jobs in the US


Oh yeah.... cars is hard.
i should have read more post context
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 12 January 2017, 13:51:06
After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I can easily see it.  Price and availability can be big for many.  Cherry MX boards are more available in retail locations like Best Buy at times.  A lot of people are going to be able to buy an MX based board without even knowing that Topre exists.  They're also often found at less than half the price of a RealForce board.

Personally, I haven't had a need for a Topre board.  I bought a Ducky with MX reds and have been using it ever since.  By the time I wanted to try out other keyboards, I was after specific layouts or switches that put Topre out of the picture. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 12 January 2017, 13:53:48
topre sucks
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 12 January 2017, 14:01:41
topre sucks

I've yet to actually use one so I can't really comment.  Maybe if they made a 75% with media key support or a VE.A type layout or such, I'd buy one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Thu, 12 January 2017, 14:08:44
After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I can easily see it.  Price and availability can be big for many.  Cherry MX boards are more available in retail locations like Best Buy at times.  A lot of people are going to be able to buy an MX based board without even knowing that Topre exists.  They're also often found at less than half the price of a RealForce board.

Personally, I haven't had a need for a Topre board.  I bought a Ducky with MX reds and have been using it ever since.  By the time I wanted to try out other keyboards, I was after specific layouts or switches that put Topre out of the picture.


Good Cherrys are Red
Bad Cherrys are Blue
Linear is sweet
What up to Cherry MX Red Crew
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Thu, 12 January 2017, 16:04:21
After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I've tried Topre but the key travel distance is too long for me.  I would definitely be interested in an ANSI board using Topre short throw switches but am uncertain if those are even in production anymore.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 12 January 2017, 16:09:23
After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I can easily see it.  Price and availability can be big for many.  Cherry MX boards are more available in retail locations like Best Buy at times.  A lot of people are going to be able to buy an MX based board without even knowing that Topre exists.  They're also often found at less than half the price of a RealForce board.

Personally, I haven't had a need for a Topre board.  I bought a Ducky with MX reds and have been using it ever since.  By the time I wanted to try out other keyboards, I was after specific layouts or switches that put Topre out of the picture.


Good Cherrys are Red
Bad Cherrys are Blue
Linear is sweet
What up to Cherry MX Red Crew

Linear4lyfe

Looking forward to the XMIT hall effect board arriving next month.  That will be interesting to try.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 12 January 2017, 16:10:20
After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I can easily see it.  Price and availability can be big for many.  Cherry MX boards are more available in retail locations like Best Buy at times.  A lot of people are going to be able to buy an MX based board without even knowing that Topre exists.  They're also often found at less than half the price of a RealForce board.

Personally, I haven't had a need for a Topre board.  I bought a Ducky with MX reds and have been using it ever since.  By the time I wanted to try out other keyboards, I was after specific layouts or switches that put Topre out of the picture.


Good Cherrys are Red
Bad Cherrys are Blue
Linear is sweet
What up to Cherry MX Red Crew
agreed that mx blue sucks
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DRAZAH on Thu, 12 January 2017, 19:13:40
After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

I can easily see it.  Price and availability can be big for many.  Cherry MX boards are more available in retail locations like Best Buy at times.  A lot of people are going to be able to buy an MX based board without even knowing that Topre exists.  They're also often found at less than half the price of a RealForce board.

Personally, I haven't had a need for a Topre board.  I bought a Ducky with MX reds and have been using it ever since.  By the time I wanted to try out other keyboards, I was after specific layouts or switches that put Topre out of the picture.


Good Cherrys are Red
Bad Cherrys are Blue
Linear is sweet
What up to Cherry MX Red Crew
agreed that mx blue sucks

I guess the problem with me was that I had tried a lot of MX switches and I found none of them pleasing. I used a crappy blackwidow with genuine MX Blues for like 4 years and with a mix of things happening in my life tied with discovering this community I quickly realized how much I hate the sound of Blues. I can't stand anything that is loud or makes that cheap "click" or plastic-y "clack" sound. I got a MF68 with Gateron Reds that I used for about 5 months. I got a 17 piece keyboard switch, I tried some donor borrow boards. The only thing that was anything close to something I liked were the 67g Zealio that I had on my tester switch. After realizing no MX switch worked for me, I went balls deep into an HHKB with Hyperspheres specifically for the sound that it makes. I was always listening to Topre sound tests on youtube but for some reason never thought about buying one. Got my HHKB with hyperspheres. Lubed the entire thing, made custom foam cutouts for the back plate to remove the case flex (feels denser, less hollow). Its basically my dream keyboard and don't see myself going back to MX ever again. I have a ton of artisan blanks on the way and I want to 55g swap it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fatbuffalo on Thu, 12 January 2017, 19:20:46
Good cherry is black.
Vintage black.
End of story.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheddarbek on Thu, 12 January 2017, 23:41:28
Good cherry is black.
Vintage black.
End of story.
Easiest way to fix MX switches: heavier Springs.

Reds are ****. Blacks are godly.

Blues are ****. Greens are pretty decent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 13 January 2017, 07:46:30
topre sucks

It's personal taste.
But one thing can't be denied is that it is the only non-contact (by its capacitive design) switch in the current market, if we don't count the remake of Hall effect switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 13 January 2017, 09:12:26
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 13 January 2017, 10:17:58
topre sucks

It's personal taste.
But one thing can't be denied is that it is the only non-contact (by its capacitive design) switch in the current market, if we don't count the remake of Hall effect switch.
hall effect is overrated, I have some, too damn tall, and layouts all suck.

also, it really isn't that smooth

Okay, legend debunked.
I think of those Heath Zenith boards, and Space-Cadet Lisp machine keyboards - still very rare though. The smoothness should depend a lot of the qualities and engineering of the moving parts, which should have not much to do with the magnet and the magnetic sensor itself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 13 January 2017, 12:43:53
Good cherry is black.
Vintage black.
End of story.
Easiest way to fix MX switches: heavier Springs.

Reds are ****. Blacks are godly.

Blues are ****. Greens are pretty decent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Easiest way to fix MX switches: lighter springs.

Reds are godly.  Blacks are tiring.

Don't care about blues.  No interest in greens.  About the only tactile switches I want to try are beam springs and capacitive buckling springs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Fri, 13 January 2017, 16:20:41
MX reds are great, but too noisy in most boards. MX pinks are much quieter, but probably disturbingly so for any user whose comfort zone depends on all the clatter.

MX blacks are too hard on my wee little fingers. Never tried vintage blacks.

Topre switches feel great, but they need to be silenced and they need to have MX mounts for them to be usable to me.

I really want to try XMIT's new Hall Effect switches. If they are as quiet as MX pinks, but even smoother (i.e., they evidence less slider friction), they may supplant MX pinks as the best MX-compatible linear switch available.

All other switches are pretty much irrelevant to me. Clicky switches are for the birds, unless I'm trying to serve homage to typewriters of old, but I've not found an MX-compatible clicky switch where the noise comes exclusively from the click leaf.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 13 January 2017, 21:07:24
MX blacks are too hard on my wee little fingers. Never tried vintage blacks.

I don't mind MX Blacks but definitely need MX Reds on the stabilized keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 13 January 2017, 21:32:04
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 13 January 2017, 22:28:22
All this happened before, and will happen again, again, again...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clankgy1 on Sun, 15 January 2017, 16:58:38
After using Topre, I'm surprised more people don't use them also. Is it because this many people have tried Topre and don't like it or because not many have tried Topre before?

Probably not an unpopular explanation (sorry for being off topic in this thread), but two main reasons contribute to lack of Topre adaption:

1. Price - *Decent* topre boards start at $150 usd, and HHKB and RF > $200 usd
2. Non MX stems - Less options for keysets
3. Fixed cable (RF) - Stupid decision IMO

IMO, HHKB Pro2 Topre is the top typing kb in terms of feel in a stock config hands down.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Sun, 15 January 2017, 21:26:11
IMO, HHKB Pro2 Topre is the top typing kb in terms of feel in a stock config hands down.

HHKB feels like the Dell of the Topre family.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Weltschmerz on Sun, 15 January 2017, 22:37:14
Here's one for you guys.

I will never own a keyboard that doesn't have arrow keys on it, because I play Crypt of the Necrodancer and Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth. HHKB and 60% are neat and all, but they will never serve my needs like they need to.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 16 January 2017, 02:49:55
Here's one for you guys.

I will never own a keyboard that doesn't have arrow keys on it, because I play Crypt of the Necrodancer and Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth. HHKB and 60% are neat and all, but they will never serve my needs like they need to.

Not unpopular. I've seen people put dedicated arrow keys on Plancks, so that's not an excuse not to go small :P Also, what about having a dedicated layer just for games? That would make it possible even on a 30%.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 16 January 2017, 04:02:34
Here's one for you guys.

I will never own a keyboard that doesn't have arrow keys on it, because I play Crypt of the Necrodancer and Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth. HHKB and 60% are neat and all, but they will never serve my needs like they need to.

Not unpopular. I've seen people put dedicated arrow keys on Plancks, so that's not an excuse not to go small :P Also, what about having a dedicated layer just for games? That would make it possible even on a 30%.

I get it. I use arrow keys for little things like moving a cursor around while typing into them forum text boxes. Or other text boxes. I haven't graduated from Nano just yet. HHKBs look soo cushiony though. So bouncy.  :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Mon, 16 January 2017, 04:07:06
While I feel like I have an intuitive layer for Arrow keys on  my 60% boards, I also prefer a dedicated cluster, which is what turned me onto TKLs. 75% and 65% are nice too, but I would prefer 75% over 65%.

Though, here's a possibly unpopular opinion: 75% boards have a "slab of keys" look that can be a bit unattractive. They're like an acquired taste, even though they were the first layout I jumped on.

I'm not  feeling it so much these days. I like the separation of a TKL. I probably would get an Alps 75% if ever one was made.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 16 January 2017, 16:39:54
IMO, HHKB Pro2 Topre is the top typing kb in terms of feel in a stock config hands down.

HHKB feels like the Dell of the Topre family.

But why?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 16 January 2017, 16:42:05
Probably shared by more fellow GH'ers, but I need to say this: THE NEW TOUCHBAR MACBOOK "PRO" HAS A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE KEYBOARD.

I tried it out yesterday. WTF Apple. Has anyone tried that keyboard? Man... it is so bad it made me appreciate rubberdomes!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 16 January 2017, 16:59:17
Though, here's a possibly unpopular opinion: 75% boards have a "slab of keys" look that can be a bit unattractive. They're like an acquired taste, even though they were the first layout I jumped on.

I hear ya. 75% just look kinda weird, but I couldn't exactly tell you why. Maybe it's because of their aspect ratio? I think boards like the ZZ96 look stunning, but they're basically 75%s with a numpad stuck directly to the side, but that also makes them quite wide and thus maybe more pleasing to the eye.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Mon, 16 January 2017, 17:37:11
Probably shared by more fellow GH'ers, but I need to say this: THE NEW TOUCHBAR MACBOOK "PRO" HAS A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE KEYBOARD.

I tried it out yesterday. WTF Apple. Has anyone tried that keyboard? Man... it is so bad it made me appreciate rubberdomes!

Wow.  I need to visit an Apple store and try this. :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 16 January 2017, 17:39:05
Probably shared by more fellow GH'ers, but I need to say this: THE NEW TOUCHBAR MACBOOK "PRO" HAS A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE KEYBOARD.

I tried it out yesterday. WTF Apple. Has anyone tried that keyboard? Man... it is so bad it made me appreciate rubberdomes!

Wow.  I need to visit an Apple store and try this. :D

Please do and report back, I'm curious what you think. My GF and I, we're both academics (I'm also a programmer). And immediately we were like "wtf I'm NOT going to type a whole paper on this. W-T-F. Ok, Lenovo T260 then." (she has a HHKB as main driver).

The unibody Macbook Pro and the macbook pro before that had perfect keyboards if you ask me. It's been downhill ever since. The retina MacBook Pro's already had somewhat compromised keyboards, and than the even more shallow feel of the MacBook Air.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Tue, 17 January 2017, 04:04:04
I
Probably shared by more fellow GH'ers, but I need to say this: THE NEW TOUCHBAR MACBOOK "PRO" HAS A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE KEYBOARD.

I tried it out yesterday. WTF Apple. Has anyone tried that keyboard? Man... it is so bad it made me appreciate rubberdomes!

Wow.  I need to visit an Apple store and try this. :D

Please do and report back, I'm curious what you think. My GF and I, we're both academics (I'm also a programmer). And immediately we were like "wtf I'm NOT going to type a whole paper on this. W-T-F. Ok, Lenovo T260 then." (she has a HHKB as main driver).

The unibody Macbook Pro and the macbook pro before that had perfect keyboards if you ask me. It's been downhill ever since. The retina MacBook Pro's already had somewhat compromised keyboards, and than the even more shallow feel of the MacBook Air.

I think it feels okay, it's just a matter of it having something like 0.1 mm of travel  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 17 January 2017, 18:00:56
I
Probably shared by more fellow GH'ers, but I need to say this: THE NEW TOUCHBAR MACBOOK "PRO" HAS A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE KEYBOARD.

I tried it out yesterday. WTF Apple. Has anyone tried that keyboard? Man... it is so bad it made me appreciate rubberdomes!

Wow.  I need to visit an Apple store and try this. :D

Please do and report back, I'm curious what you think. My GF and I, we're both academics (I'm also a programmer). And immediately we were like "wtf I'm NOT going to type a whole paper on this. W-T-F. Ok, Lenovo T260 then." (she has a HHKB as main driver).

The unibody Macbook Pro and the macbook pro before that had perfect keyboards if you ask me. It's been downhill ever since. The retina MacBook Pro's already had somewhat compromised keyboards, and than the even more shallow feel of the MacBook Air.

I think it feels okay, it's just a matter of it having something like 0.1 mm of travel  :))

It feels okay? IT FEELS OKAY? OO--KK--AA--YY?? Ok, hand in all your keyboards. You're not worth it ;p

No joking... opinions vary. But do you REALLY think you want to type for hours on end on it? No right? I mean you fingers MUST get hurt. It almost feels like typing on a glass touchpad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Wed, 18 January 2017, 04:02:20
I think it feels okay, it's just a matter of it having something like 0.1 mm of travel  :))

It feels okay? IT FEELS OKAY? OO--KK--AA--YY?? Ok, hand in all your keyboards. You're not worth it ;p

No joking... opinions vary. But do you REALLY think you want to type for hours on end on it? No right? I mean you fingers MUST get hurt. It almost feels like typing on a glass touchpad.

I wouldn't want to type more than two paragraphs on it.
I meant that it's pretty tactile and not mushy at all, I would be interested in seeing a keyboard with that modified scissor "butterfly" design with something like 2 mm of travel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 18 January 2017, 16:43:21
I think it feels okay, it's just a matter of it having something like 0.1 mm of travel  :))

It feels okay? IT FEELS OKAY? OO--KK--AA--YY?? Ok, hand in all your keyboards. You're not worth it ;p

No joking... opinions vary. But do you REALLY think you want to type for hours on end on it? No right? I mean you fingers MUST get hurt. It almost feels like typing on a glass touchpad.

I wouldn't want to type more than two paragraphs on it.
I meant that it's pretty tactile and not mushy at all, I would be interested in seeing a keyboard with that modified scissor "butterfly" design with something like 2 mm of travel.

I'd like to see some kind of butterfly + Topre crossover breed. The sound of the tactility or feel of the butterfly with the smoothness of Topre.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 18 January 2017, 17:02:50
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eksuen on Wed, 18 January 2017, 18:24:37
split or die.

dead.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 18 January 2017, 18:26:52
split or die.

dead.

i too am ded
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 18 January 2017, 22:36:15
split or die.

dead.

i too am ded

Not ded!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Wed, 18 January 2017, 22:44:56
I think most of the people on GH must have obsessive personalities and/or unnatural, possibly pathological, fixations on small, precise objects. The extent to which they delve into detail over the slightest bits of keyboard esoterica never fails to amuse me.

(I wouldn't normally mention this—but this is the Unpopular Opinions thread, right?)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 19 January 2017, 04:56:19
I think most of the people on GH must have obsessive personalities and/or unnatural, possibly pathological, fixations on small, precise objects. The extent to which they delve into detail over the slightest bits of keyboard esoterica never fails to amuse me.

(I wouldn't normally mention this—but this is the Unpopular Opinions thread, right?)

Did you type this on Topre? What you say can only be considered on its merit IF TYPED ON TOPRE. :p

But is this an unpopular opinion of yours? Isn't this what we all enjoy? Or are you sitting there "hahaha ALPS VS buckling. those unworthy peasants quibbling over nonsensical topics", pecking away on some rubberdomes?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Thu, 19 January 2017, 05:58:13
split or die.

Physical split or does this count as well?

(http://imgur.com/CaVhyy9.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 08:31:43
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Thu, 19 January 2017, 09:08:55
split or die.

Physical split or does this count as well?

Show Image
(http://imgur.com/CaVhyy9.jpg)


physically split, what else is the point?

Well the point is to have my hands farther apart. Or do you get a split keyboard simply because it looks cool?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clappingcactus on Thu, 19 January 2017, 09:23:51
split or die.

Physical split or does this count as well?

Show Image
(http://imgur.com/CaVhyy9.jpg)


physically split, what else is the point?

Well the point is to have my hands farther apart. Or do you get a split keyboard simply because it looks cool?

There's also the point that with a physically split keyboard you get to have your wrists uncoupled.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 19 January 2017, 13:47:16
split or die.

Physical split or does this count as well?

Show Image
(http://imgur.com/CaVhyy9.jpg)


physically split, what else is the point?

Well the point is to have my hands farther apart. Or do you get a split keyboard simply because it looks cool?

I'd specifically want a split board to tent it.  The tenting is where it's at for me.  The split is merely to make the tenting possible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 13:48:07
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 19 January 2017, 13:53:07
split or die.

Physical split or does this count as well?

Show Image
(http://imgur.com/CaVhyy9.jpg)


physically split, what else is the point?

Well the point is to have my hands farther apart. Or do you get a split keyboard simply because it looks cool?

I'd specifically want a split board to tent it.  The tenting is where it's at for me.  The split is merely to make the tenting possible.

I suppose me too since I only use the right spacebar, but I plan to map the left one to backspace or delete.

I actually use both the space bar on both sides.  The right when typing, the left when gaming as my right hand is on the mouse. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Thu, 19 January 2017, 21:09:16
split or die.

I don't have the money
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 21:53:38
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Fri, 20 January 2017, 03:56:36
I'd specifically want a split board to tent it.  The tenting is where it's at for me.  The split is merely to make the tenting possible.

I suppose me too since I only use the right spacebar, but I plan to map the left one to backspace or delete.

I actually use both the space bar on both sides.  The right when typing, the left when gaming as my right hand is on the mouse.

Hitting the sweetspot, I'm only ever using space with my left thumb. Very useful for split layouts.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 20 January 2017, 12:49:13
I'd specifically want a split board to tent it.  The tenting is where it's at for me.  The split is merely to make the tenting possible.

I suppose me too since I only use the right spacebar, but I plan to map the left one to backspace or delete.

I actually use both the space bar on both sides.  The right when typing, the left when gaming as my right hand is on the mouse.

Hitting the sweetspot, I'm only ever using space with my left thumb. Very useful for split layouts.

Honestly I'd probably configure space keys on both sides of any split board I own unless I planned on not gaming at all on it (Kinesis and Maltron come to mind). 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Sat, 21 January 2017, 02:20:46
Honestly I'd probably configure space keys on both sides of any split board I own unless I planned on not gaming at all on it (Kinesis and Maltron come to mind).

Or make one key a switch that let's you put space on the other side.

Ok, here's an unpopular opinion for you: GMK Hydro is damn ugly. I really hate the shade the blue has, couldn't tell you why.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: daerid on Sat, 21 January 2017, 08:32:03
My latest unpopular opinion:

I friggin love Apple's butterfly switches on their new laptops. Like, waaaay more than I ever thought possible. These things are amazing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Sat, 21 January 2017, 14:18:27
Honestly I'd probably configure space keys on both sides of any split board I own unless I planned on not gaming at all on it (Kinesis and Maltron come to mind).

Or make one key a switch that let's you put space on the other side.

Ok, here's an unpopular opinion for you: GMK Hydro is damn ugly. I really hate the shade the blue has, couldn't tell you why.

Not sure how much I'd make use of such a feature but it's possible.

GMK Hydro wasn't bad but not overly my choice either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Sun, 22 January 2017, 00:07:36
Tsangan is best layout no exceptions. 1.5|1|1.5| 7 |1.5|1|1.5 bottom row with a split right shift. Extra  a e s t h e t i c s  because of the symmetrical bottom row. The only reason why I don't rock the tsangan bottom row is because I didn't know about it when I built my keyboard. I do use a split right shift because of a broken stab  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Sun, 22 January 2017, 04:09:26
If your gonna type on Blues then fake Blues are just fine. *looks at $30 Aula bought for gf who likes clicky sounds to use on her Macbook Pro*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 22 January 2017, 08:06:45
Tsangan is best layout no exceptions. 1.5|1|1.5| 7 |1.5|1|1.5 bottom row with a split right shift. Extra  a e s t h e t i c s  because of the symmetrical bottom row. The only reason why I don't rock the tsangan bottom row is because I didn't know about it when I built my keyboard. I do use a split right shift because of a broken stab  :p
tsangan bottom row is the absolute best. super compatible with vintage sets too. The split shift is nice, but not a requirement IMO
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Sun, 22 January 2017, 17:09:47
tsangan bottom row is the absolute best. super compatible with vintage sets too. The split shift is nice, but not a requirement IMO

I think that the split right shift is best if you use a lot of layers/are on a 60% but isn't a total deal breaker if the board doesn't have one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 23 January 2017, 16:30:13
Fn key should be on the left.  Laptop makers had it right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 23 January 2017, 16:44:47
Fn key should be on the left.  Laptop makers had it right.

Mine is there already.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Mon, 23 January 2017, 19:38:14
Fn key should be on the left.  Laptop makers had it right.

I use the caps lock key for my primary fn layer and the extra key by the split shift for my fn2 and the right win for fn3
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: daerid on Mon, 23 January 2017, 19:45:51
Probably shared by more fellow GH'ers, but I need to say this: THE NEW TOUCHBAR MACBOOK "PRO" HAS A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE KEYBOARD.

I tried it out yesterday. WTF Apple. Has anyone tried that keyboard? Man... it is so bad it made me appreciate rubberdomes!

No way man, I love this thing. 15" tbMBP here, and after a couple hours I actually like it a lot more than the original scissor keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 23 January 2017, 23:04:12
Fn key should be on the left.  Laptop makers had it right.

I use the caps lock key for my primary fn layer and the extra key by the split shift for my fn2 and the right win for fn3


Not a bad choice.  I tend to only need one Fn layer as I keep to keyboards with dedicated F keys so I'm only really using Fn for media controls
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 08 February 2017, 18:40:16
65% is for plebs who can't use layers
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cribbit on Wed, 08 February 2017, 20:15:11
65% is for plebs who can't use layers

Everything bigger than 40% is for plebs who can't use layers. 30% is for people who are one with their layers.

Or the true Apple keyboard: A single switch, and a dial to change what layer it presses.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 08 February 2017, 20:47:38
65% is for plebs who can't use layers

Everything bigger than 40% is for plebs who can't use layers. 30% is for people who are one with their layers.

Or the true Apple keyboard: A single switch, and a dial to change what layer it presses.

30% pffft
I use a numpad with layers as my daily driver  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 08 February 2017, 22:08:10
Just use a TKL jeez...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sun, 12 February 2017, 15:56:08
Here is what must be one of the most unpopular opinions in the mk marketplace:

A 60% version of the NovaTouch would be a killer product.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Sun, 12 February 2017, 16:04:56
Just use a TKL jeez...

TKLs are the bane of my existence
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 13 February 2017, 13:57:09
Just use a TKL jeez...

TKLs are the bane of my existence
TKL is the only. layout. everything else is inferior. fight me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 13 February 2017, 15:18:03
I can see the appeal of the TKL layout for most folks.

Unfortunately, it lacks the numpad (which I like) for desktop PC work, and it is too big for my iPad, making it the most useless "popular" layout out there (for me).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheddarbek on Mon, 13 February 2017, 22:16:25
I can see the appeal of the TKL layout for most folks.

Unfortunately, it lacks the numpad (which I like) for desktop PC work, and it is too big for my iPad, making it the most useless "popular" layout out there (for me).
Full size less the arrow cluster(60% + numpad) would be the best layout.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Mon, 13 February 2017, 23:23:50
Full size less the arrow cluster(60% + numpad) would be the best layout.

(http://mechboards.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Cooler-Master-CM-Storm-QuickFire-TK.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheddarbek on Mon, 13 February 2017, 23:25:08
Full size less the arrow cluster(60% + numpad) would be the best layout.

Show Image
(http://mechboards.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Cooler-Master-CM-Storm-QuickFire-TK.jpg)



The Cooler Master. Just what I was thinking of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Mon, 13 February 2017, 23:27:24
The Cooler Master. Just what I was thinking of.

 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 14 February 2017, 10:06:10
How about the Leopold 980C or M?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: batfink on Tue, 14 February 2017, 10:24:47
30% pffft
I use a numpad with layers as my daily driver  :))

30%? Luxury. I use a single key and tap out all my characters in binary.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheddarbek on Tue, 14 February 2017, 11:15:36
How about the Leopold 980C or M?

Not all that dissimilar than RS96, neh? I'm not a fan of included F keys and arrows. Besides, 1.75U shift is just the worst. If you run a board with 1.75, keycap sets just cost that much more.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 14 February 2017, 11:50:50
How about the Leopold 980C or M?

Not all that dissimilar than RS96, neh? I'm not a fan of included F keys and arrows. Besides, 1.75U shift is just the worst. If you run a board with 1.75, keycap sets just cost that much more.

Hmmm, I use arrow keys to go back/forward in browsers and f keys make nice program launching hotkeys when paired with mod/super/win so I don't know if I could use a keyboard the same way. As far as keysets I think that the 980 boards have an all in one package deal but that's my opinion. I can see the appeal of RS96 but I've heard of or seen a topre version. A Topre RS96 would be very interesting
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 14 February 2017, 13:38:39
A TKL should work out pretty well for me.  I like the numpad and make use of it for work at times but it wouldn't be a big loss to not have it.  It's the 60% and smaller boards I don't really have much use for.  It's a rare thing for me to use a tablet rather than be at my computer and tablets are about the only reason for me to even consider a 60% given my heavy preference for an F row and some type of nav cluster.  I'll likely end up trying out a 75% board as it's a nice compact layout that still has everything I want.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Tue, 14 February 2017, 15:58:45
You and I are not too dissimilar, Niomosy.

However, I not only like having a numpad (when working at a desktop PC), it feels wrong to me when it is missing, like an amputated limb that I keep expecting to be there. And before I became a heavy iPad user, I had no need for the 60% format either. But when I started spending most of my life (away from work) in front of it, a desperate need for a suitably sized mech keyboard suddenly took ahold of me.

For the past year I've been suffering from terrible neck strain (and associated headaches), which I primarily blame on poor head posture while using my iPad, and so I've cut way back on my iPad usage. I don't use it nearly as much as I did a year or two ago, but I'm not about to toss away my Pok3rs any time soon. And in fact, I still want my 60% "end-game" board, which is a Pok3r with TMX switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 14 February 2017, 16:47:16
I agree that having the 10-key is nice.  Having been working in IT for over 20 years, I'm rather used to keyboards having it.  For gaming and such, I should be just fine with the TKL.  I honestly don't even use the 10-key that heavily for work but when dealing with numbers, my right hand tends to automatically move over there.

As to the neck problems with an iPad, I can easily see it.  Just reading a book at times, I'll feel problems in my neck so I know it's not something I can readily sustain unless I treat it like a laptop with a decent setup for ergonomics. 

The 60% boards also make sense for those using tablets more as the function keys aren't really needed.  As I tend to be a power user even when casually surfing the net, the tablets tend not to work quite as well for me.  Most every night I'm making use of both a desktop and laptop for things.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Tue, 14 February 2017, 16:47:47
I guess I am in the minority for thinking Unicomp is endgame material  :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hking0036 on Tue, 14 February 2017, 16:50:55
I guess I am in the minority for thinking Unicomp is endgame material  :(
Unicomp is unique in offering new buckling spring boards, it's just that the issue is that everything that Unicomp makes has been done with higher standards before from a time where it didn't have to be built to cut costs. If you want the best of the best of buckling spring you can get a Model F, or even an older Model M with a thicker plate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 14 February 2017, 16:54:23
I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Tue, 14 February 2017, 16:55:28
I guess I am in the minority for thinking Unicomp is endgame material  :(
Unicomp is unique in offering new buckling spring boards, it's just that the issue is that everything that Unicomp makes has been done with higher standards before from a time where it didn't have to be built to cut costs. If you want the best of the best of buckling spring you can get a Model F.

Bro I agree with you 100%.  I should have definitely mentioned, my reasoning for buying Unicomps over real IBMs and refurbishing them, is I both prefer a never-before-used board, don't have the $ to get a NOS IBM board, and probably most personally important, want to support them for both being a USA company doing everything in house and being the only company to still sell them.

Now, let's say Unicomp goes out of business and I want a buckling spring board, yeah you can bet I'll be fixing up an old dirty Model F instead of getting a used Unicomp. In that regard, there;s no contest IMO.

I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

They will make everything else suck ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Tue, 14 February 2017, 17:39:55
I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

You won't get the full beamspring experience unless you also get the solenoid working.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 14 February 2017, 19:41:39

I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

They will make everything else suck ;)


See, I'm a confirmed linear switch guy so they might be nice for a bit but I would easily be pining to go back to linears.  Hall Effect switches are really my goal so I'm hoping those XMIT boards work out well once they arrive.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Wed, 15 February 2017, 00:06:51

TKL is the only. layout. everything else is inferior. fight me.

At least we agree that topre is overrated.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Potatomonkey on Wed, 15 February 2017, 00:07:56
Full size less the arrow cluster(60% + numpad) would be the best layout.

Show Image
(http://mechboards.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Cooler-Master-CM-Storm-QuickFire-TK.jpg)


ZZ96 layout is better
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RELLIK on Wed, 15 February 2017, 00:13:16
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ee0f585e705b8da1d6a4b84fcc85a160
Yall really need the fat +/Enter column?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Wed, 15 February 2017, 04:57:33
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ee0f585e705b8da1d6a4b84fcc85a160
Yall really need the fat +/Enter column?

How else are you going to use it has a calculator?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Wed, 15 February 2017, 05:26:27
Full size less the arrow cluster(60% + numpad) would be the best layout.

Show Image
(http://mechboards.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Cooler-Master-CM-Storm-QuickFire-TK.jpg)


ZZ96 layout is better

I've never liked the "wall of keys" look you get with boards that have the F keys all scrunched up against the number row. If I was in the market for a smaller form factor with tenkey, I'd go for an FC980C or an 1800 layout.

That said, I'd rather have a TKL with detached numpad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Wed, 15 February 2017, 11:05:24
TKL is the only. layout. everything else is inferior. fight me.

Phantom TKL is better in every way. GG EZ
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RELLIK on Thu, 16 February 2017, 04:25:12
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ee0f585e705b8da1d6a4b84fcc85a160
Yall really need the fat +/Enter column?

How else are you going to use it has a calculator?
For just basic functions I would have thought it doable : Capslock=Enter, then stick +/-* wherever you feel across top and in place of 00. Granted I dont use my numpad all that much, its just easier for # entry.

On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Thu, 16 February 2017, 10:58:44
On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

Usually you would not user the mouse at all for "heavy data entry".
But if that's the case then a separate numpad would be the best choice.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 16 February 2017, 12:52:20
On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

Usually you would not user the mouse at all for "heavy data entry".
But if that's the case then a separate numpad would be the best choice.

Or switch to a left handed mouse. If you're not gaming it really doesn't take that long to adapt
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cribbit on Thu, 16 February 2017, 12:57:08
Or use a Planck and a layer for numpad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: skitty on Thu, 16 February 2017, 17:56:55
On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

Usually you would not user the mouse at all for "heavy data entry".
But if that's the case then a separate numpad would be the best choice.

Or switch to a left handed mouse. If you're not gaming it really doesn't take that long to adapt

Yeah, I do this at work since I have a full size keyboard and using my mouse left handed is working fine for me. It also lets me put my notepad to the right of my keyboard where I can take notes without having to shift things around.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Fri, 17 February 2017, 04:38:56
On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

Usually you would not user the mouse at all for "heavy data entry".
But if that's the case then a separate numpad would be the best choice.

Or switch to a left handed mouse. If you're not gaming it really doesn't take that long to adapt

That's actually a great idea, i should try that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 17 February 2017, 04:48:54
Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

It's rattly and loud, sounds way different than any of the other keys. And the giant chunk PBT the spacebar is made out of puts enough pressure on the key it feels noticeably lighter than other keys.

Not criticizing the keyboard as a whole, love it!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Fri, 17 February 2017, 04:51:46
Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

It's rattly and loud, sounds way different than any of the other keys. And the giant chunk PBT the spacebar is made out of puts enough pressure on the key it feels noticeably lighter than other keys.

Not criticizing the keyboard as a whole, love it!

I never had a rattly Model M spacebar but on both my real IBMs and Unicomps, the space bar has a higher pitch than the main keys but not as high pitched as the backspace.

Another thing: see if your left shift is lower pitch than the right shift...  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 17 February 2017, 05:16:47
Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

It's rattly and loud, sounds way different than any of the other keys. And the giant chunk PBT the spacebar is made out of puts enough pressure on the key it feels noticeably lighter than other keys.

Not criticizing the keyboard as a whole, love it!

I never had a rattly Model M spacebar but on both my real IBMs and Unicomps, the space bar has a higher pitch than the main keys but not as high pitched as the backspace.

Another thing: see if your left shift is lower pitch than the right shift...  :eek:
it is! jeeze!

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Fri, 17 February 2017, 05:58:47
Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

It's rattly and loud, sounds way different than any of the other keys. And the giant chunk PBT the spacebar is made out of puts enough pressure on the key it feels noticeably lighter than other keys.

Not criticizing the keyboard as a whole, love it!

There must be a mod to fix this. Maybe a heavier spring? The spacebar should be the heaviest key on a board, not the lightest.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Fri, 17 February 2017, 12:08:13
Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

Well, I think the entire Model M sucks. As does any clone of it.  So there. :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Fri, 17 February 2017, 12:13:16
Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

Well, I think the entire Model M sucks. As does any clone of it.  So there. :p

Genuinely curious since you're not a BS fan so I want to ask to see if you feel the same as my MX loving, BS hating friends :thumb:

did you use BS boards back in the day? (mid 80s, very early 90s)
What switches do you prefer most?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: noisyturtle on Fri, 17 February 2017, 12:26:28
A flipped space bar is a cry for attention
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Fri, 17 February 2017, 12:30:17
A flipped space bar is a cry for attention

Co signed
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Fri, 17 February 2017, 12:49:53
Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

Well, I think the entire Model M sucks. As does any clone of it.  So there. :p

Genuinely curious since you're not a BS fan so I want to ask to see if you feel the same as my MX loving, BS hating friends :thumb:

did you use BS boards back in the day? (mid 80s, very early 90s)
What switches do you prefer most?

At the moment I prefer silenced Topre and MX silent red switches. But I'm eager to try XMIT's Hall Effect switch. I'd probably use Matias switches too if it weren't for the complete lack of spherical keycaps for them.

I began using computers back when you had to use a terminal connected over a modem to a mainframe. The terminals I used back then (early 80s) all had Microswitch Hall Effect linears or something similar, with lovely high-profile spherical keycaps. Computer keyboards have, IMO, been on the decline in terms of aesthetics and build quality ever since.

I remember very clearly when the IBM PC came out. I hated its keyboard back then and I still hate it today. It is noisy, loud, uncomfortable, and so tediously dull in appearance that I get depressed just looking at it. I had to use one for years at the office I worked in as a college intern, and it was slowly destroying my soul. I have one (circa 1993) at home right now, serving as a constant reminder of how things all went horribly wrong.

Now, thanks to the resurgence of custom mech boards, I am able to put together keyboards that remind me of a time when keyboards were beautiful engineering marvels that only lacked a coherent layout standard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Fri, 17 February 2017, 13:50:27
A flipped space bar is a cry for attention

It certainly looks super stupid and I feel there's no need for it. I tried it on my board with Cherry profile for a while, I feel no difference whatsoever. People are justifying it by being more comfortable because the front edge won't cut into your thumb, but I think if your hand is that low, you might have to work on your typing posture.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Fri, 17 February 2017, 15:31:36
Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

Well, I think the entire Model M sucks. As does any clone of it.  So there. :p

Genuinely curious since you're not a BS fan so I want to ask to see if you feel the same as my MX loving, BS hating friends :thumb:

did you use BS boards back in the day? (mid 80s, very early 90s)
What switches do you prefer most?

At the moment I prefer silenced Topre and MX silent red switches. But I'm eager to try XMIT's Hall Effect switch. I'd probably use Matias switches too if it weren't for the complete lack of spherical keycaps for them.

I began using computers back when you had to use a terminal connected over a modem to a mainframe. The terminals I used back then (early 80s) all had Microswitch Hall Effect linears or something similar, with lovely high-profile spherical keycaps. Computer keyboards have, IMO, been on the decline in terms of aesthetics and build quality ever since.

I remember very clearly when the IBM PC came out. I hated its keyboard back then and I still hate it today. It is noisy, loud, uncomfortable, and so tediously dull in appearance that I get depressed just looking at it. I had to use one for years at the office I worked in as a college intern, and it was slowly destroying my soul. I have one (circa 1993) at home right now, serving as a constant reminder of how things all went horribly wrong.

Now, thanks to the resurgence of custom mech boards, I am able to put together keyboards that remind me of a time when keyboards were beautiful engineering marvels that only lacked a coherent layout standard.

Interesting to know! I've looked at many photos of very old hall effect boards and those should be killer. I too am very excited for XMIT's design.

I think I like everything about buckling springs because I love super heavy and loud keys... it was also the first not completely awful keyboard I used (thinking about C64 or Atari ST or something, both crap keyboards)

I think if I had gotten used to hall effect before BS like you, I'd probably think BS was.... uh.... BS   :'(

I do really like Topre too and reds are my favorite of any MX switch, so that's cool too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 17 February 2017, 17:23:51
I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

You won't get the full beamspring experience unless you also get the solenoid working.  :p

Having head clips of it, I'd turn off the added sound immediately.  Though it's admittedly far less annoying than the sound of MX blues even if that's not saying much.  MX blues can die in a fire.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cribbit on Fri, 17 February 2017, 17:28:31
I much prefer the solenoid replacement of wiring a servo to some cymbals which actuates on every keypress.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Fri, 17 February 2017, 17:30:50
Beamsprings without the solenoid is like only hearing a stereo recording in only one ear. You're only getting a fraction of the full experience. You might as well not even bother...  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Fri, 17 February 2017, 21:59:06
I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

You won't get the full beamspring experience unless you also get the solenoid working.  :p

Having head clips of it, I'd turn off the added sound immediately.  Though it's admittedly far less annoying than the sound of MX blues even if that's not saying much.  MX blues can die in a fire.

At least it seems to be more universally accepted than it used to be that Blues are trash. Was ridiculous how long Blues had the reputation of "only MX worth bothering with". ewww
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RELLIK on Sat, 18 February 2017, 03:04:21
On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

Usually you would not user the mouse at all for "heavy data entry".
But if that's the case then a separate numpad would be the best choice.

Or switch to a left handed mouse. If you're not gaming it really doesn't take that long to adapt

It does seem just another accessory is easiest in that regard  :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: happylacquer on Sat, 18 February 2017, 03:08:59
I actually cross my hands and use my trackballs with my left hand a lot while typing with my right hand. It's stupid I know, but it works for me?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Sat, 18 February 2017, 19:35:35
and a layer

Phhht, GH-122.  No layers needed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: silverpanda94 on Wed, 08 March 2017, 10:28:07
1. RGB is so overhyped, it looks like garbage if you use more than like 3 colors and costs an arm and a leg.
2. After testing any mechanical keyboard ever, I regret having ever typed on a Razer.
3. Alps switches are ******g sick!
4. Keytronic rubber domes actually don't feel half bad.

I actually agree.  I'm using a board with Keytronic rubber domes at work, and it's one of the best rubber dome experiences I've had. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gallowgeek on Wed, 08 March 2017, 11:09:09
Well, this keyboard is not "unpopular" but the original K90 series from Corsair was, well, too much. The idea of having 18 programmable macro keys is great, but in actuality, it is more of a nuisance. First of all, it takes up a huge chunk of your desk space. Second, the macro keys are not mechanical switches. Third, the keyboard was expensive AF.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Thu, 09 March 2017, 12:23:55
and a layer

Phhht, GH-122.  No layers needed.


I like the way you think!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sat, 22 April 2017, 19:07:11
I guess I am in the minority for thinking Unicomp is endgame material.

Unicomp is unique in offering new buckling spring boards, it's just that the issue is that everything that Unicomp makes has been done with higher standards before from a time where it didn't have to be built to cut costs. If you want the best of the best of buckling spring you can get a Model F, or even an older Model M with a thicker plate.

Along with my bolt-modded Model M 1390131 and ANSI-ified Model F-AT, my Unicomp Ultra Classic is one of my 3 favourite boards. Yes, the build's lighter than vintage M's—there's no way Unicomp could've used IBM's or Lexmark's specs and kept their boards below $100. And considering they're still made in the U.S., their pricing borders on miraculous.

Personally, I find the lighter build a pleasant contrast with IBM's tank-like one. And Unicomp's creaking-case syndrome (which I noticed only when picking up the board, not using it) can be fixed.

So hooray, Unicomp—more power to you.

And now, here's my (apparently) Unpopular Opinion:

People who feel compelled to use graphic banners in their sigs that we must see over and over and over and over...   :?P  Instead, how about just adding one to a post, say, once a week? Or is overkill the only method acceptable to you?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sat, 22 April 2017, 19:30:22
People who feel compelled to use graphic banners in their sigs that we must see over and over and over and over...   :?P  Instead, how about just adding one to a post, say, once a week? Or is overkill the only method acceptable to you?

Yeah, it's horrible. It's as bad as all the people who feel compelled to post photos of yet another (buckling spring) IBM keyboard (or clone of same) which looks exactly like the ten thousand other photos of the same fugly thing littering the mech board forums all over the Internet. It would seem that suffocating overkill is the only method acceptable to them as well.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Thu, 27 April 2017, 03:52:40
It's as bad as all the people who feel compelled to post photos of yet another (buckling spring) IBM keyboard (or clone of same) which looks exactly like the ten thousand other photos of the same fugly thing littering the mech board forums all over the Internet. It would seem that suffocating overkill is the only method acceptable to them as well.  :p

Oh god yes. When I'm on /r/MK, I want to see pictures of new, interesting builds, I don't care if someone got another model M for just 10 bucks or found it in their basement. And you can't even filter them out automatically because the title usually is something like "Look what I found!". What I do like is when someone posts a build log of how they restored their greasy vintage board. That is a good resource for others and it can be interesting to see how people approach that and what horrific kinds of critters they find in their boards.

What's even worse, those simple posts get hundreds of upvotes sometimes, and then well-documented build logs get something like 60 and you never even notice them.  :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 27 April 2017, 05:23:24
Reddit in a nutshell. I got downvoted to oblivion the other day—for simply pointing out (very neutrally btw) that OP's Cherry G80 wasn't #rare #vintage #NOS, but a cheap, very common 5-year-old model with corners cut everywhere.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Ouhei on Thu, 27 April 2017, 08:09:35
I'm sure this has been covered but I think artisan keycaps ruin 99% of the boards they're on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Thu, 27 April 2017, 18:17:19
I think Kailh Switches are better than most give them credit for, the ones I have used have been more consistent than Outemu or Gaote and have felt closer to Cherry (Which was what they were trying to copy) than Gaterons do even though Gaterons are smoother.  Iv'e never had a Kailh fail on me and while they aren't my #1 pick I think they get a ton of flack for no reason.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 27 April 2017, 19:45:23
I think Kailh Switches are better than most give them credit for, the ones I have used have been more consistent than Outemu or Gaote and have felt closer to Cherry (Which was what they were trying to copy) than Gaterons do even though Gaterons are smoother.  Iv'e never had a Kailh fail on me and while they aren't my #1 pick I think they get a ton of flack for no reason.
All of the Kailhs I've tried were very scratchy, that being said they weren't any more scratchy than the old generation (2010-2016) MX switches so I guess they were equal in a way.

But I have never had any problems with them technically. All the boards I have tried and had with them functioned perfectly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minh278 on Thu, 27 April 2017, 20:01:41
I'm sure this has been covered but I think artisan keycaps ruin 99% of the boards they're on.

Somebody finally said it!!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 28 April 2017, 08:25:21
It's as bad as all the people who feel compelled to post photos of yet another (buckling spring) IBM keyboard (or clone of same) which looks exactly like the ten thousand other photos of the same fugly thing littering the mech board forums all over the Internet. It would seem that suffocating overkill is the only method acceptable to them as well.  :p

Oh god yes. When I'm on /r/MK, I want to see pictures of new, interesting builds, I don't care if someone got another model M for just 10 bucks or found it in their basement. And you can't even filter them out automatically because the title usually is something like "Look what I found!". What I do like is when someone posts a build log of how they restored their greasy vintage board. That is a good resource for others and it can be interesting to see how people approach that and what horrific kinds of critters they find in their boards.

What's even worse, those simple posts get hundreds of upvotes sometimes, and then well-documented build logs get something like 60 and you never even notice them.  :(

It may be the same board, but the photo of it may be beautifully composed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 28 April 2017, 12:38:26
Costar stabilizers were invented by Satan.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 28 April 2017, 13:00:07
I don't understand the fascination for crazy heavy keyboards.

Are you a 400lb Sumo wrestler that keeps bumping your board out of the way while eating your bowl of Chankonabe?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 28 April 2017, 13:04:13
I don't understand the fascination for crazy heavy keyboards.

Are you a 400lb Sumo wrestler that keeps bumping your board out of the way while eating your bowl of Chankonabe?

I think good rubber feets are more important than heavy boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minh278 on Fri, 28 April 2017, 13:09:01
I don't understand the fascination for crazy heavy keyboards.

Are you a 400lb Sumo wrestler that keeps bumping your board out of the way while eating your bowl of Chankonabe?

Heavy things usually equal to more quality in most peoples minds. More mass = more resources = more quality = better money spent (im assuming the train of though).

Personally I like keyboards that are not super heavy but just right. I do think that overly heavy feels better than overly light keyboard (in my opinion).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Fri, 28 April 2017, 13:27:01
Careful what you hate on, sooner or later you'll probably have one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 28 April 2017, 13:35:57
Heavy things usually equal to more quality in most peoples minds. More mass = more resources = more quality = better money spent

Coming from a cycling background I think the opposite: The heavier it is the cheaper less quality material used. (ie: Hi-Ten Steel vs. Titanium/Carbon)

Careful what you hate on, sooner or later you'll probably have one.

I don't doubt this at all.  I'm revisiting boards and switches I thought I would never touch again.  Also I flip flop between 60%/80%/100% all the time.

Mostly I think this is just getting bored with typing on the same keyboard day in day out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 28 April 2017, 13:36:31
Careful what you hate on, sooner or later you'll probably have one.

Tp4 will never buy another topre..

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 28 April 2017, 15:41:29
Careful what you hate on, sooner or later you'll probably have one.

Tp4 will never buy another topre..

why u don't like topre? coz of inconsistent quality?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 28 April 2017, 15:47:24
Careful what you hate on, sooner or later you'll probably have one.

Tp4 will never buy another topre..

why u don't like topre? coz of inconsistent quality?



Way back when I started on this journey.. everyone was like Topre, God-tier keyboard..

Then I bought an 87u..  and instantly recognized that i've been mislead by hipster weeb-hype..


Deep down, do I harbor some resentment against topre and its users..  a little..


But this isn't the first of my purchases to have turned out this way,  and so as part of this community..  I always make sure to offer a more realistic counter-evaluation when I see the Topre-cult jump in with buy buy buy..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 28 April 2017, 15:49:13
Careful what you hate on, sooner or later you'll probably have one.

Tp4 will never buy another topre..

why u don't like topre? coz of inconsistent quality?



Way back when I started on this journey.. everyone was like Topre, God-tier keyboard..

Then I bought an 87u..  and instantly recognized that i've been mislead by hipster weeb-hype..


Deep down, do I harbor some resentment against topre and its users..  a little..


But this isn't the first of my purchases to have turned out this way,  and so as part of this community..  I always make sure to offer a more realistic counter-evaluation when I see the Topre-cult jump in with buy buy buy..

good points. solid reasoning. 10/10

but i must say... i like topre for typing. it feels comfortable for long stretches of typing. but to say it's 5000x better than topre, the ultimate "endgame" board. naaah
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: minh278 on Fri, 28 April 2017, 16:15:45

That was my experience with cherry mx-blues, the misguided hypeness . Oh God i still shudder from the high pitched clicking, how to: kill your sensitive hearing, annoy your friends, scare your dog, annoy your siblings, etc.

I do think that topre is overhyped by most people though (I don't regret buying it, but not sure it's for everyone). I do think the worst thing people can do though is point a newbie to buy a cheepo chinese topre clone as i personally think it wastes money towards a better keyboard (topre or mx) and they have terrible resale value.

I don't understand how people can use 60% layout do y'all not read ebooks at all or any manga or just life internet things (I need my arrow keys!)?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 28 April 2017, 16:22:51
That was my experience with cherry mx-blues, the misguided hypeness . Oh God i still shudder from the high pitched clicking, how to: kill your sensitive hearing, annoy your friends, scare your dog, annoy your siblings, etc.

There was this blues-hype when I just dived into boards. People said to me that "the clickiness feedback" is what you want, what makes you more "accurate". I never liked the sound, never will. I can see the appeal. But if you want that, just buy buckling springs. get the real deal.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cribbit on Fri, 28 April 2017, 16:46:46
That was my experience with cherry mx-blues, the misguided hypeness . Oh God i still shudder from the high pitched clicking, how to: kill your sensitive hearing, annoy your friends, scare your dog, annoy your siblings, etc.

There was this blues-hype when I just dived into boards. People said to me that "the clickiness feedback" is what you want, what makes you more "accurate". I never liked the sound, never will. I can see the appeal. But if you want that, just buy buckling springs. get the real deal.

The blues hype is all marketing. It's the idea that if there isn't something distinctly different it's not new. Mechanical is about the quality of the switch, not whether it clicks or not. That's why you see so many cheapo knockoff boards using clone blues, it appeals to people who don't know anything about mechs except that they're loud.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 28 April 2017, 16:48:33
That was my experience with cherry mx-blues, the misguided hypeness . Oh God i still shudder from the high pitched clicking, how to: kill your sensitive hearing, annoy your friends, scare your dog, annoy your siblings, etc.

There was this blues-hype when I just dived into boards. People said to me that "the clickiness feedback" is what you want, what makes you more "accurate". I never liked the sound, never will. I can see the appeal. But if you want that, just buy buckling springs. get the real deal.

The blues hype is all marketing. It's the idea that if there isn't something distinctly different it's not new. Mechanical is about the quality of the switch, not whether it clicks or not. That's why you see so many cheapo knockoff boards using clone blues, it appeals to people who don't know anything about mechs except that they're loud.

Yeah it's almost like people go like "yeah you can hear its quality coz that sound". Like people who are not knowledgeable only think that you know a board is mech if it makes that excessive noise.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Fri, 28 April 2017, 16:50:35
The only thing I like clicky switches for is capturing the impression of typebars hitting the platen of a manual typewriter. For keyboard builds that trying to capture that manual typewriter vibe, clickies seem appropriate to me. I have two boards like this and they are okay with MX blues. However, if I could, I think I would use Kaihua Box Whites instead.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 28 April 2017, 17:00:38
That was my experience with cherry mx-blues, the misguided hypeness . Oh God i still shudder from the high pitched clicking, how to: kill your sensitive hearing, annoy your friends, scare your dog, annoy your siblings, etc.

There was this blues-hype when I just dived into boards. People said to me that "the clickiness feedback" is what you want, what makes you more "accurate". I never liked the sound, never will. I can see the appeal. But if you want that, just buy buckling springs. get the real deal.

The blues hype is all marketing. It's the idea that if there isn't something distinctly different it's not new. Mechanical is about the quality of the switch, not whether it clicks or not. That's why you see so many cheapo knockoff boards using clone blues, it appeals to people who don't know anything about mechs except that they're loud.

Yeah it's almost like people go like "yeah you can hear its quality coz that sound". Like people who are not knowledgeable only think that you know a board is mech if it makes that excessive noise.


For quite awhile I had the same opinion going to Topre...then back to MX Browns for awhile....now I'm using Gateron Blues and loving it again.

I totally get people who are turned off by it though, drives me wife nuts.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 28 April 2017, 17:31:39
That was my experience with cherry mx-blues, the misguided hypeness . Oh God i still shudder from the high pitched clicking, how to: kill your sensitive hearing, annoy your friends, scare your dog, annoy your siblings, etc.

There was this blues-hype when I just dived into boards. People said to me that "the clickiness feedback" is what you want, what makes you more "accurate". I never liked the sound, never will. I can see the appeal. But if you want that, just buy buckling springs. get the real deal.

The blues hype is all marketing. It's the idea that if there isn't something distinctly different it's not new. Mechanical is about the quality of the switch, not whether it clicks or not. That's why you see so many cheapo knockoff boards using clone blues, it appeals to people who don't know anything about mechs except that they're loud.

Yeah it's almost like people go like "yeah you can hear its quality coz that sound". Like people who are not knowledgeable only think that you know a board is mech if it makes that excessive noise.


For quite awhile I had the same opinion going to Topre...then back to MX Browns for awhile....now I'm using Gateron Blues and loving it again.

I totally get people who are turned off by it though, drives me wife nuts.

I DO see the appeal of clicky switches, just not MX Blues. The noise is too high pitched for me. But that's personal taste of course. It sounds flimsy and cheap to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 28 April 2017, 17:36:28

For quite awhile I had the same opinion going to Topre...then back to MX Browns for awhile....now I'm using Gateron Blues and loving it again.

I totally get people who are turned off by it though, drives me wife nuts.

I DO see the appeal of clicky switches, just not MX Blues. The noise is too high pitched for me. But that's personal taste of course. It sounds flimsy and cheap to me.

why u got to be rational..

I was just going to suggest he annoy his wife and requisite secs for lowered annoyance level.. 

hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 28 April 2017, 17:39:55
That was my experience with cherry mx-blues, the misguided hypeness . Oh God i still shudder from the high pitched clicking, how to: kill your sensitive hearing, annoy your friends, scare your dog, annoy your siblings, etc.

There was this blues-hype when I just dived into boards. People said to me that "the clickiness feedback" is what you want, what makes you more "accurate". I never liked the sound, never will. I can see the appeal. But if you want that, just buy buckling springs. get the real deal.

The blues hype is all marketing. It's the idea that if there isn't something distinctly different it's not new. Mechanical is about the quality of the switch, not whether it clicks or not. That's why you see so many cheapo knockoff boards using clone blues, it appeals to people who don't know anything about mechs except that they're loud.

Yeah it's almost like people go like "yeah you can hear its quality coz that sound". Like people who are not knowledgeable only think that you know a board is mech if it makes that excessive noise.


For quite awhile I had the same opinion going to Topre...then back to MX Browns for awhile....now I'm using Gateron Blues and loving it again.

I totally get people who are turned off by it though, drives me wife nuts.

I DO see the appeal of clicky switches, just not MX Blues. The noise is too high pitched for me. But that's personal taste of course. It sounds flimsy and cheap to me.


Hmm and here personally I don't see a huge sound difference between Cherry/Gateron and Kailh.  Definitely notice it with outemu/Goate though however.

I most definitely notice a feel difference however, Gaterons are so much smoother.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Sat, 29 April 2017, 01:18:27

That was my experience with cherry mx-blues, the misguided hypeness . Oh God i still shudder from the high pitched clicking, how to: kill your sensitive hearing, annoy your friends, scare your dog, annoy your siblings, etc.

I do think that topre is overhyped by most people though (I don't regret buying it, but not sure it's for everyone). I do think the worst thing people can do though is point a newbie to buy a cheepo chinese topre clone as i personally think it wastes money towards a better keyboard (topre or mx) and they have terrible resale value.

I don't understand how people can use 60% layout do y'all not read ebooks at all or any manga or just life internet things (I need my arrow keys!)?

I was fortunate with blues.  I went to Fry's and was able to try out blacks, reds, browns, and blues only to realize quickly that I really don't like blues at all.

For Topre, I've yet to try one and see no reason to dump high amounts of money into one without having tried one.  Even then, it's cost-prohibitive and I've got plenty of other things to put that money toward.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lazylewis on Sun, 30 April 2017, 01:26:33
The Leopold 660m is super ugly and looks like they ran out of keys.

Full size keyboards look too big and just look awkward.

I'm bored of seeing photos of HHKBs with at most a couple of keys swapped out for coloured blanks and usually just stock keycaps. Seen one seem them all. And the same goes for model m.

I've never had my sneakers anywhere near my keyboard and don't know why I keep seeing photos of the two together. It a stupid combination. Ones for indoors and ones for outdoors.

Okay I think I'm done.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 30 April 2017, 05:04:37
That was my experience with cherry mx-blues, the misguided hypeness . Oh God i still shudder from the high pitched clicking, how to: kill your sensitive hearing, annoy your friends, scare your dog, annoy your siblings, etc.

There was this blues-hype when I just dived into boards. People said to me that "the clickiness feedback" is what you want, what makes you more "accurate". I never liked the sound, never will. I can see the appeal. But if you want that, just buy buckling springs. get the real deal.

The blues hype is all marketing. It's the idea that if there isn't something distinctly different it's not new. Mechanical is about the quality of the switch, not whether it clicks or not. That's why you see so many cheapo knockoff boards using clone blues, it appeals to people who don't know anything about mechs except that they're loud.

Yeah it's almost like people go like "yeah you can hear its quality coz that sound". Like people who are not knowledgeable only think that you know a board is mech if it makes that excessive noise.


For quite awhile I had the same opinion going to Topre...then back to MX Browns for awhile....now I'm using Gateron Blues and loving it again.

I totally get people who are turned off by it though, drives me wife nuts.

I DO see the appeal of clicky switches, just not MX Blues. The noise is too high pitched for me. But that's personal taste of course. It sounds flimsy and cheap to me.


Hmm and here personally I don't see a huge sound difference between Cherry/Gateron and Kailh.  Definitely notice it with outemu/Goate though however.

I most definitely notice a feel difference however, Gaterons are so much smoother.

If I would really want clickies, I would go model M or ALPS. That has a more low, bassy sound to it in my opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Sun, 30 April 2017, 10:00:12
The Leopold 660m is super ugly and looks like they ran out of keys.

Full size keyboards look too big and just look awkward.

I'm bored of seeing photos of HHKBs with at most a couple of keys swapped out for coloured blanks and usually just stock keycaps. Seen one seem them all. And the same goes for model m.

I've never had my sneakers anywhere near my keyboard and don't know why I keep seeing photos of the two together. It a stupid combination. Ones for indoors and ones for outdoors.

Okay I think I'm done.

I'm with you on most of these. I can sort of see the appeal of the 660 layout, but the wasted space in the right hand corner,  which I think is probably my  favourite part about that layout in terms of looks, is dumb and the keys that are there aren't used by anyone using a decent text editor. They would be better just being accessed through a function layer (possible using hasu's controller now i think?), and just having a more standard layout.

If I were to buy a full size I'd get something like a 9009 or some other behemoth and make it the centerpiece of my desk, normal full sizes just look to long.

I've never posted a pic of my HHKB because me too, I don't give a **** about the one deformed piece of plastic you put on there.

Shoes are for scale I guess, but my size 13's would be very misleading  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 01 May 2017, 13:21:11
The Leopold 660m is super ugly and looks like they ran out of keys.

Full size keyboards look too big and just look awkward.

I'm bored of seeing photos of HHKBs with at most a couple of keys swapped out for coloured blanks and usually just stock keycaps. Seen one seem them all. And the same goes for model m.

I've never had my sneakers anywhere near my keyboard and don't know why I keep seeing photos of the two together. It a stupid combination. Ones for indoors and ones for outdoors.

Okay I think I'm done.

I'm with you on most of these. I can sort of see the appeal of the 660 layout, but the wasted space in the right hand corner,  which I think is probably my  favourite part about that layout in terms of looks, is dumb and the keys that are there aren't used by anyone using a decent text editor. They would be better just being accessed through a function layer (possible using hasu's controller now i think?), and just having a more standard layout.

If I were to buy a full size I'd get something like a 9009 or some other behemoth and make it the centerpiece of my desk, normal full sizes just look to long.

I've never posted a pic of my HHKB because me too, I don't give a **** about the one deformed piece of plastic you put on there.

Shoes are for scale I guess, but my size 13's would be very misleading  :p

13? You are like little baby!

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/595a01006dfe4664641828eb71d57630/tumblr_inline_om9fe3kDy81qea5co_540.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Mon, 01 May 2017, 18:26:15
13? You are like little baby!

Show Image
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/595a01006dfe4664641828eb71d57630/tumblr_inline_om9fe3kDy81qea5co_540.jpg)


I don't want to know what you think of size 9s :(

The Leopold 660m is super ugly and looks like they ran out of keys.

Full size keyboards look too big and just look awkward.

I've never had my sneakers anywhere near my keyboard and don't know why I keep seeing photos of the two together. It a stupid combination. Ones for indoors and ones for outdoors.

660 is nice, got a little artisan corner. I agree with fullsized, but I don't use numpad so maybe that's what it is. Never insult the shoes :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Mon, 01 May 2017, 18:55:10
I think fullsize is a waste even for people who NEED numpads as an external numpad you can move is far more ergonomic and space saving compared to a built in one you can't move at all.  Even at work when I need a numpad I bring a cheap external ones as Fullsize keyboards are truly as outdated and obsolete as the Pager compared to a cellphone IMO.  Anytime someone says they need one I just hear an old person screaming "Get off my lawn you kids!"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atarione on Mon, 01 May 2017, 19:00:57
I don't understand why anyone would prefer cherry stabilizers to costar

oh boo hoo.. the keycaps are slightly more hassle to remove / install... wah... at least the costar stabilizers aren't mushy garbage.

also... TKL is the perfect keyboard layout.. get a num pad if you need one sometimes.. anything smaller than TKL 80% is too small and full sized is too big.. TKL is perfect..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 01 May 2017, 19:06:25
I don't understand why anyone would prefer cherry stabilizers to costar

oh boo hoo.. the keycaps are slightly more hassle to remove / install... wah... at least the costar stabilizers aren't mushy garbage.

also... TKL is the perfect keyboard layout.. get a num pad if you need one sometimes.. anything smaller than TKL 80% is too small and full sized is too big.. TKL is perfect..


Clipped Cherry stabs work great and feel awesome. Hassle free when changing keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Mon, 01 May 2017, 19:16:31
I don't understand why anyone would prefer cherry stabilizers to costar

oh boo hoo.. the keycaps are slightly more hassle to remove / install... wah... at least the costar stabilizers aren't mushy garbage.

also... TKL is the perfect keyboard layout.. get a num pad if you need one sometimes.. anything smaller than TKL 80% is too small and full sized is too big.. TKL is perfect..

You can fix Cherry stabilizers with minimal skill effort, Costars just continue to suck all around.  They are noisy,PITA to change caps on and rattly as all hell IMO.   

Clipped Cherry = Best of both worlds.


Costar = Settling because too lazy to clip.

I DO 100% Agree about TKL however as obviously noted with an earlier comment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 01 May 2017, 19:25:47
also... TKL is the perfect keyboard layout.. get a num pad if you need one sometimes.. anything smaller than TKL 80% is too small and full sized is too big.. TKL is perfect..

For me it's the exact opposite. TKL is the most useless layout (for me).

I like having a numpad when sitting at a desktop PC, so full-size is the only layout I will accept for desktop PC use. The only other thing I need a keyboard for is my iPad. TKL is too big for my iPad. TKL is useless...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Mon, 01 May 2017, 19:40:54
also... TKL is the perfect keyboard layout.. get a num pad if you need one sometimes.. anything smaller than TKL 80% is too small and full sized is too big.. TKL is perfect..

TKLs look the best but are too big, for the amount I use arrow keys having them on another layer is fine and for gaming I just have a dedicated layer with everything I need.

60% with a numpad on the left = the best option
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: reconsiderit on Mon, 01 May 2017, 20:06:28
I don't understand why anyone would prefer cherry stabilizers to costar

oh boo hoo.. the keycaps are slightly more hassle to remove / install... wah... at least the costar stabilizers aren't mushy garbage.

also... TKL is the perfect keyboard layout.. get a num pad if you need one sometimes.. anything smaller than TKL 80% is too small and full sized is too big.. TKL is perfect..

You can fix Cherry stabilizers with minimal skill effort, Costars just continue to suck all around.  They are noisy,PITA to change caps on and rattly as all hell IMO.   

Clipped Cherry = Best of both worlds.


Costar = Settling because too lazy to clip.

I DO 100% Agree about TKL however as obviously noted with an earlier comment.

Clipping the stabs stop that mushy feeling at the bottom of the keystroke, right?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 01 May 2017, 22:50:58
also... TKL is the perfect keyboard layout.. get a num pad if you need one sometimes.. anything smaller than TKL 80% is too small and full sized is too big.. TKL is perfect..

TKLs look the best but are too big, for the amount I use arrow keys having them on another layer is fine and for gaming I just have a dedicated layer with everything I need.

60% with a numpad on the left = the best option

Honestly I still find layers worthless for most things.  I'd rather just have a dedicated key for something on a larger keyboard than have to rem
I think fullsize is a waste even for people who NEED numpads as an external numpad you can move is far more ergonomic and space saving compared to a built in one you can't move at all.  Even at work when I need a numpad I bring a cheap external ones as Fullsize keyboards are truly as outdated and obsolete as the Pager compared to a cellphone IMO.  Anytime someone says they need one I just hear an old person screaming "Get off my lawn you kids!"

Haven't ever seen the point in getting a separate numpad, really.  A full size is cheaper than a TKL + numpad and has the numpad already in a familiar place.  Full size boards will be the primary keyboard type for a good while to come until you can get PC makers and businesses to make the jump.  Sure, plenty of keyboard enthusiasts will pick up some alternate, smaller, shape but that's a drop in the bucket in terms of keyboard users in the world.  As for me, I wouldn't mind an alternate layout... like a 122 board.

And get off my lawn, dammit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atarione on Tue, 02 May 2017, 00:38:49
I don't understand why anyone would prefer cherry stabilizers to costar

oh boo hoo.. the keycaps are slightly more hassle to remove / install... wah... at least the costar stabilizers aren't mushy garbage.

also... TKL is the perfect keyboard layout.. get a num pad if you need one sometimes.. anything smaller than TKL 80% is too small and full sized is too big.. TKL is perfect..

You can fix Cherry stabilizers with minimal skill effort, Costars just continue to suck all around.  They are noisy,PITA to change caps on and rattly as all hell IMO.   

Clipped Cherry = Best of both worlds.


Costar = Settling because too lazy to clip.

I DO 100% Agree about TKL however as obviously noted with an earlier comment.


yeah.. because I should have to desolder switches on my keyboard (potentially) and void my warranty on a keyboard to make the stabilizers not suck a donkey butt.

fair enough.. I'll keep my filco I think   :D


but yes TKL is the optimal size... pft 100% keyboard or <80% keyboards.. NOPE...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 02 May 2017, 05:23:15
Hmm… the thing about the size of tenkeyless keyboards… there's a point in that, but the layout itself _is_ dumb.

The "standard" tenkeyless copied from IBM Model M [SSK] has the gaps and keys placed, so that it facilitates typewriter legacy users, and makes functions easy to find for n00bs. Horribly inefficient.

Meanwhile, something like Symbolics' Lisp-machine keyboards or even Kinesis Advantage has more or less the same form factor, but a so much better layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HannahPeach on Tue, 02 May 2017, 08:52:22
Topre is god awful
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xondat on Tue, 02 May 2017, 08:54:24
Topre is god awful

You have 3 hhkbs though
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 02 May 2017, 08:55:28
Topre is god awful

You have 3 hhkbs though

That's how he knows  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HannahPeach on Tue, 02 May 2017, 09:01:28
Topre is god awful

You have 3 hhkbs though

Just got a BT some time ago, so it's 4 as of right now,
Point still stands though.


Topre could be fine if it weren't for the super loud springs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 02 May 2017, 09:15:06
Topre is god awful

You have 3 hhkbs though

Just got a BT some time ago, so it's 4 as of right now,
Point still stands though.


Topre could be fine if it weren't for the super loud springs.

WATT? Do you even Topre? It's not the springs, it's the upstroke. That is not due to the spring, but the plastic of the cap hitting the plastic of the switch house.

If it were the springs, it would ping. It's not a metal sound, the noise of the topre upstoke is a plastic sound.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HannahPeach on Tue, 02 May 2017, 09:25:01
Topre is god awful

You have 3 hhkbs though

Just got a BT some time ago, so it's 4 as of right now,
Point still stands though.


Topre could be fine if it weren't for the super loud springs.

WATT? Do you even Topre? It's not the springs, it's the upstroke. That is not due to the spring, but the plastic of the cap hitting the plastic of the switch house.

If it were the springs, it would ping. It's not a metal sound, the noise of the topre upstoke is a plastic sound.


I am talking about the springs, not the upstroke.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5a5nl4qieeustcv/MOV_0212.mp4?dl=0

Been having this issue on every single topre board that I own.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 02 May 2017, 11:05:44
Topre is god awful

You have 3 hhkbs though

Just got a BT some time ago, so it's 4 as of right now,
Point still stands though.


Topre could be fine if it weren't for the super loud springs.

WATT? Do you even Topre? It's not the springs, it's the upstroke. That is not due to the spring, but the plastic of the cap hitting the plastic of the switch house.

If it were the springs, it would ping. It's not a metal sound, the noise of the topre upstoke is a plastic sound.


I am talking about the springs, not the upstroke.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5a5nl4qieeustcv/MOV_0212.mp4?dl=0

Been having this issue on every single topre board that I own.

I have never heard / seen that before, thanks.

Still... is that the spring? It also sounds a bit like the rubber is "sticky".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HannahPeach on Tue, 02 May 2017, 11:21:11
Topre is god awful

You have 3 hhkbs though

Just got a BT some time ago, so it's 4 as of right now,
Point still stands though.


Topre could be fine if it weren't for the super loud springs.

WATT? Do you even Topre? It's not the springs, it's the upstroke. That is not due to the spring, but the plastic of the cap hitting the plastic of the switch house.

If it were the springs, it would ping. It's not a metal sound, the noise of the topre upstoke is a plastic sound.


I am talking about the springs, not the upstroke.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5a5nl4qieeustcv/MOV_0212.mp4?dl=0

Been having this issue on every single topre board that I own.

I have never heard / seen that before, thanks.

Still... is that the spring? It also sounds a bit like the rubber is "sticky".

I have no clue to be honest, lucky for you that you've never had that issue :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 02 May 2017, 11:39:54
Topre is god awful

You have 3 hhkbs though

Just got a BT some time ago, so it's 4 as of right now,
Point still stands though.


Topre could be fine if it weren't for the super loud springs.

WATT? Do you even Topre? It's not the springs, it's the upstroke. That is not due to the spring, but the plastic of the cap hitting the plastic of the switch house.

If it were the springs, it would ping. It's not a metal sound, the noise of the topre upstoke is a plastic sound.


I am talking about the springs, not the upstroke.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5a5nl4qieeustcv/MOV_0212.mp4?dl=0

Been having this issue on every single topre board that I own.

I have never heard / seen that before, thanks.

Still... is that the spring? It also sounds a bit like the rubber is "sticky".

I have no clue to be honest, lucky for you that you've never had that issue :(

Could you fix it? Did you think of something yet? THIS WORRIES ME MORE THAN IT SHOULD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 02 May 2017, 11:48:48
Don't jizz on the keyboard, maybe?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HannahPeach on Tue, 02 May 2017, 12:11:26
Topre is god awful

You have 3 hhkbs though

Just got a BT some time ago, so it's 4 as of right now,
Point still stands though.


Topre could be fine if it weren't for the super loud springs.

WATT? Do you even Topre? It's not the springs, it's the upstroke. That is not due to the spring, but the plastic of the cap hitting the plastic of the switch house.

If it were the springs, it would ping. It's not a metal sound, the noise of the topre upstoke is a plastic sound.


I am talking about the springs, not the upstroke.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5a5nl4qieeustcv/MOV_0212.mp4?dl=0

Been having this issue on every single topre board that I own.

I have never heard / seen that before, thanks.

Still... is that the spring? It also sounds a bit like the rubber is "sticky".

I have no clue to be honest, lucky for you that you've never had that issue :(

Could you fix it? Did you think of something yet? THIS WORRIES ME MORE THAN IT SHOULD

Never found a way to fix, tinkered around with different topre boards for the better part of a year now.
Kinda frustrating.

Don't jizz on the keyboard, maybe?

Holy **** dawg, you totally got me there
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 02 May 2017, 12:13:08
Don't jizz on the keyboard, maybe?

THAT'S HOW I LUBE IT OK?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Wed, 03 May 2017, 04:09:31

Oh god yes. When I'm on /r/MK, I want to see pictures of new, interesting builds, I don't care if someone got another model M for just 10 bucks or found it in their basement. And you can't even filter them out automatically because the title usually is something like "Look what I found!". What I do like is when someone posts a build log of how they restored their greasy vintage board. That is a good resource for others and it can be interesting to see how people approach that and what horrific kinds of critters they find in their boards.

What's even worse, those simple posts get hundreds of upvotes sometimes, and then well-documented build logs get something like 60 and you never even notice them.  :(

It may be the same board, but the photo of it may be beautifully composed.

That's seldom the case, though. But yeah, I can appreciate good photography of a stock board, no harm in that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 03 May 2017, 12:23:50
If you're going to make a Hiragana set, at least make sure you have some sort of JIS alpha support. Even if it's an additional kit... :-[
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 03 May 2017, 13:27:30
If you're going to make a Hiragana set, at least make sure you have some sort of JIS alpha support. Even if it's an additional kit... :-[


That's not an opinion, but an unpopular request.  :p :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 03 May 2017, 13:31:05
Hmm… the thing about the size of tenkeyless keyboards… there's a point in that, but the layout itself _is_ dumb.

The "standard" tenkeyless copied from IBM Model M [SSK] has the gaps and keys placed, so that it facilitates typewriter legacy users, and makes functions easy to find for n00bs. Horribly inefficient.

Meanwhile, something like Symbolics' Lisp-machine keyboards or even Kinesis Advantage has more or less the same form factor, but a so much better layout.

The Symbolics layout isn't bad but it's odd with some bracket duplication keys where the current backspace is typically located.  It also has a load of extra keys that would be better served replaced with currently useful keys.  Something like a 96 key or 1800 style layout would end up being an equivalent for modern computing.

The Kinesis Advantage layout isn't bad but suffers from layout issues that constrain every symmetric split board out there; you're putting some of the right-hand keys in odd locations to get that symmetry.  For the majority, this probably isn't a problem as long as you don't need the various brackets which are usually the target of relocation to odd places.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 03 May 2017, 15:39:52
The Symbolics layout isn't bad but it's odd with some bracket duplication keys where the current backspace is typically located.  It also has a load of extra keys that would be better served replaced with currently useful keys.  Something like a 96 key or 1800 style layout would end up being an equivalent for modern computing.
IBM CUA and what has come after it is a dumbed down simplification of an user interface—coming from Lisp machines is a huge downgrade.

The keys in corners are rather pointless, because they're hard to reach anyway, while those keyboards had plenty of fancy features, such as dual-role Shifts, that produced parenthesis on tap, or the famous layer-like stuff for accessing loads of various symbols.

A tenkey is quite pointless too, while at it.

The Kinesis Advantage layout isn't bad but suffers from layout issues that constrain every symmetric split board out there; you're putting some of the right-hand keys in odd locations to get that symmetry.
You're confusing symbols with keys, and assuming that the placement from standard US QWERTY is right—it's not, you're just used to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 03 May 2017, 17:25:08
The Symbolics layout isn't bad but it's odd with some bracket duplication keys where the current backspace is typically located.  It also has a load of extra keys that would be better served replaced with currently useful keys.  Something like a 96 key or 1800 style layout would end up being an equivalent for modern computing.
IBM CUA and what has come after it is a dumbed down simplification of an user interface—coming from Lisp machines is a huge downgrade.

The keys in corners are rather pointless, because they're hard to reach anyway, while those keyboards had plenty of fancy features, such as dual-role Shifts, that produced parenthesis on tap, or the famous layer-like stuff for accessing loads of various symbols.

A tenkey is quite pointless too, while at it.

The Kinesis Advantage layout isn't bad but suffers from layout issues that constrain every symmetric split board out there; you're putting some of the right-hand keys in odd locations to get that symmetry.
You're confusing symbols with keys, and assuming that the placement from standard US QWERTY is right—it's not, you're just used to it.

The layers are interesting but not overly needed for most when the vast majority of people could probably do everything they need on a 75% board without complaining about lack of keys - with the note that heavy number crunchers are going to need a numpad.  Personally, I still have a heavy preference for entering numbers on the numpad.  It's easier to fly through number entry that way.  Not that I have to very often but it's nice to have when I need it.

As for the Kinesis, the bracket keys end up down on the right-side arrow cluster area making their location more inconvenient than on Qwerty, Colemak, and even Dvorak layouts.  If anything, the Ergodox offers a decent solution that symmetric keyboards create with the additional inner column per side.  I've noticed some using the upper keys for the brackets in some instances. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gerdo on Wed, 03 May 2017, 23:17:47
How anyone can type on sculpted SA is beyond me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Wed, 03 May 2017, 23:25:34
How anyone can type on sculpted SA is beyond me

1. Place finger on key
2. Press down
3. Repeat

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Wed, 03 May 2017, 23:45:13
How anyone can type on sculpted SA is beyond me

If you have good typing form it's easy, if you have weird typing habits it for sure can cause you to struggle a bit.

Unless you were talking about how the keycaps feel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blighty on Thu, 04 May 2017, 05:38:16
After about 3 weeks of typing on it, I really like the Microsoft Surface Ergonomic Keyboard.  It's currently my favorite board.  It took the lead from my LZ ergo board.  It feels great to type on, games decently (6kro), and is wireless via bluetooth.  I don't really like the tenkey attached, but it's a great board to type on if you have the desk space.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 04 May 2017, 06:41:59
The layers are interesting but not overly needed for most when the vast majority of people could probably do everything they need on a 75% board without complaining about lack of keys - with the note that heavy number crunchers are going to need a numpad.
Most people are (a) n00bs and/or (b) stuck with cheap, more or less standardized commodity keyboards, MS Office and some defaults. The latter is forced by monopolies. Of course that requires high conformity.

I don't consider it relevant to the discussion, though.

Personally, I still have a heavy preference for entering numbers on the numpad.  It's easier to fly through number entry that way.  Not that I have to very often but it's nice to have when I need it.
The Model M's numpad isn't the only number layout out there, however.

It's okay in some ways, and in case of something like the aforementioned Kinesis Advantage (or even TypeMatrix), it can be easily embedded in the main section of the keyboard.

I, for one, prefer a (differently arranged) number row, that allows me to use both hands without jumping between rows.

There are other approaches too.

As for the Kinesis, the bracket keys end up down on the right-side arrow cluster area making their location more inconvenient than on Qwerty, Colemak, and even Dvorak layouts.  If anything, the Ergodox offers a decent solution that symmetric keyboards create with the additional inner column per side.  I've noticed some using the upper keys for the brackets in some instances. 
Again, you're making assumptions based on default keymap/labels.

The brackets, for example, are placed in a corner or at an edge of the keyboard section, because they're rather uncommon: basically just arrays/parameters in some programming languages or tags in some markups. In either case, a good software environment at least automatically inserts closing brackets/tags, or better—abstracts away from "brute-force" typing (e.g., has a command/macro for making text bold).

Furthermore, keymaps (software or firmware) can be changed. On my keyboards, brackets/parenthesis are placed on a layer directly on the home row. I previously had them in the corners, middle (ErgoDox, wide-mod staggered layout) or bottom (Kinesis Advantage), but eventually stopped using those positions altogether, because of it required extra movements of the whole hand, or awkward stretching/curling fingers; I'm not a Tiproman (aka The Angry Chocolate Bar).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 05 May 2017, 01:13:09
Most people are where the keyboards are going to be sold.  Most people are going to be the reason for a layout prevalence.  I feel that's important to the discussion.  I tend to prefer to stick to standards when possible and adjust when I need.  In terms of keyboards, a full size board fills just about all my needs.  Throw in some dedicated media keys on the left size or top-left and I'm set.

Sure, the numpad can be embedded.  For me, I'm on staggered keyboards so a regular numpad of some kind of most heavily preferred.  Given I've already got a full size board, I'm set there.  I can get by on a TKL and have done so but having the numpad is nice.

A good programming environment can help but it's no good with I'm dealing with those things at the command line or in a basic editor like vi where we don't have vim installed on the server.  Partially helpful, sure.  Remapping isn't bad on the Ergodox but not that great on the Advantage.  The best board here is the Freestyle 2 if I want an ergo split board.  Eliminate the symmetry and you eliminate lots of problems.  For a bonus, the left hand keys are great for dedicated media keys so I can adjust the volume while gaming. 

Keys can be changed in many cases.  It's not really a problem for me, though.  I use a full size keyboard and have not bothered with the various symmetric boards.  If I eventually decide to get a tented/split board, I'll get a Kinesis Freestyle 2.  I have no real need for an Ergodox or Kinesis Advantage. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DaBubbs on Sun, 07 May 2017, 15:07:54
1. RF being the only ones with 55g Topre.
2. In fact, I wish there were even higher options with Topre... maybe a 65g or 75g.
3. Lack of options with some types of keycap sets that I like... Topre and MX Cherry especially.

Well, I guess #3 may not be unpopular... I am sure we all would like more options.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lakiozoon on Sun, 28 May 2017, 06:14:46
Keyboards without winkey aren't worth considering.   :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Mon, 29 May 2017, 03:30:52
Keyboards without winkey aren't worth considering.   :-X

They're only worth considering if you have Control in the proper place, otherwise I can't interact properly with my computer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ComandaPanda on Mon, 29 May 2017, 04:21:39
WKL layout is best, HHKB layout best, 60, TKL, Fullsize is best. Ergodox best, VE.A sux

65%, 75%, 96-layout, 1800 layout all sux.

PBT is best, GMK sux.

Gateron switches sux, vintage Cherry is best.

(http://i.imgur.com/VqjVOx1.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 29 May 2017, 15:31:49
Keyboards without winkey aren't worth considering.   :-X

They're only worth considering if you have Control in the proper place, otherwise I can't interact properly with my computer.

Same for me but with winkey. How am I supposed to move my windows?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Mon, 29 May 2017, 17:37:34
Keyboards without winkey aren't worth considering.   :-X

They're only worth considering if you have Control in the proper place, otherwise I can't interact properly with my computer.

Same for me but with winkey. How am I supposed to move my windows?

That's what i meant, have control instead of caps and rebind where control would be on bottom row to super
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Mon, 29 May 2017, 18:24:11
1) If you have the desktop space, your keyboard should have a numpad.

2) The proper desktop layout is as follows:  mouse on the left, alphanumeric keys center, directionals to the right, and numpad off to the far right.  It's not that hard to use the mouse on the left after a little bit of practice, and this will solve all of your numpad gripes (and keep people away from your workstation!)

3) Scissor switch boards can feel great.  My favorite are those built into the Lenovo Thinkpads (even after they went island style.)

4) It doesn't matter what type of Enter key you have.  Big-ass, tall, long...  you'll get used to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 29 May 2017, 18:30:31
1) If you have the desktop space, your keyboard should have a numpad.

2) The proper desktop layout is as follows:  mouse on the left, alphanumeric keys center, directionals to the right, and numpad off to the far right.  It's not that hard to use the mouse on the left after a little bit of practice, and this will solve all of your numpad gripes (and keep people away from your workstation!)

3) Scissor switch boards can feel great.  My favorite are those built into the Lenovo Thinkpads (even after they went island style.)

4) It doesn't matter what type of Enter key you have.  Big-ass, tall, long...  you'll get used to it.

Another left handed mouse user nice. These days I prefer trackball on the left and mouse or Wacom on the right but I can get by with just one mouse if need be.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Mon, 29 May 2017, 18:54:25
1) If you have the desktop space, your keyboard should have a numpad.

2) The proper desktop layout is as follows:  mouse on the left, alphanumeric keys center, directionals to the right, and numpad off to the far right.  It's not that hard to use the mouse on the left after a little bit of practice, and this will solve all of your numpad gripes (and keep people away from your workstation!)

3) Scissor switch boards can feel great.  My favorite are those built into the Lenovo Thinkpads (even after they went island style.)

4) It doesn't matter what type of Enter key you have.  Big-ass, tall, long...  you'll get used to it.

Another left handed mouse user nice. These days I prefer trackball on the left and mouse or Wacom on the right but I can get by with just one mouse if need be.

Left handed mouse setup is the only way to be!  A trackball setup is on my "to try" list. For now, I just use a plain Jane laser mouse set to the highest DPI possible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keycapper on Mon, 29 May 2017, 23:04:05
Nobody needs more than a 60% board.  There, I said it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 29 May 2017, 23:43:59
Nobody needs more than a 60% board.  There, I said it.

No one needs air to breath either.  They want air to breath so they don't die of lack of oxygen.

That said, dedicated F keys and arrow keys or GTFO.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 30 May 2017, 00:16:34
That said, dedicated F keys and arrow keys or GTFO.

As ALWAYS  :thumb: .

ONLY fvcking numb nuts who use 60% keyboards are Dell or some other pre-made PC users, that don't even know about a bios and how to use one.

So glad to use keyboards with the basic keys needed to tunnel back into any bios to alter the voltages when needed  8) .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PotatoTM on Tue, 30 May 2017, 00:31:19
SP keycaps are not high quality/consistent enough to justify its price, IMO their price is that high because they have the monopoly that allows them to do it. I have yet to try GMK caps but I hope their keys are more consistent/well built than SP's
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Tue, 30 May 2017, 00:59:35
That said, dedicated F keys and arrow keys or GTFO.

As ALWAYS  :thumb: .

ONLY fvcking numb nuts who use 60% keyboards are Dell or some other pre-made PC users, that don't even know about a bios and how to use one.

So glad to use keyboards with the basic keys needed to tunnel back into any bios to alter the voltages when needed  8) .

Uhhhhh... no? Keys needed to access bios are usually Del or F2, and pretty much any bios on consumer hardware (not OEM stuff, real hardware) post-2012 supports a mouse anyway. You're not some l33t h4xor because you can OC. I'd argue that kind of crowd is *more* likely to have a 60%, as those interested in bios access almost certainly have an interest in computer hardware and peripherals.

People who use OEM systems are far less likely to use a 60% because it's too different from what they're used to.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 30 May 2017, 01:20:09
That said, dedicated F keys and arrow keys or GTFO.

As ALWAYS  :thumb: .

ONLY fvcking numb nuts who use 60% keyboards are Dell or some other pre-made PC users, that don't even know about a bios and how to use one.

So glad to use keyboards with the basic keys needed to tunnel back into any bios to alter the voltages when needed  8) .

Uhhhhh... no? Keys needed to access bios are usually Del or F2, and pretty much any bios on consumer hardware (not OEM stuff, real hardware) post-2012 supports a mouse anyway. You're not some l33t h4xor because you can OC. I'd argue that kind of crowd is *more* likely to have a 60%, as those interested in bios access almost certainly have an interest in computer hardware and peripherals.

People who use OEM systems are far less likely to use a 60% because it's too different from what they're used to.

Man, I'm using a full-sized keyboard and I've nearly run out of keys to use with i3wm let alone MMOs and other programs that need shortcuts. Sure a 60% won't have the same flexing/wobbling problems but I still can't understand how people can use a keyboard without an F row as a daily driver. I can remap a keyboard but I'm not sure I can remap my brain after so many years of full sized boards :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SBJ on Tue, 30 May 2017, 03:02:38
Man, I'm using a full-sized keyboard and I've nearly run out of keys to use with i3wm let alone MMOs and other programs that need shortcuts. Sure a 60% won't have the same flexing/wobbling problems but I still can't understand how people can use a keyboard without an F row as a daily driver. I can remap a keyboard but I'm not sure I can remap my brain after so many years of full sized boards :confused:
Yeah I thought the idea of a 60% sounded good so I wished for one for christmas. Was utterly unusable in my day to day activities. I need those dedicated arrow keys. I use them too much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mrduul on Tue, 30 May 2017, 03:29:18
MX Cherry Blues...no thanks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Tue, 30 May 2017, 08:16:50
That said, dedicated F keys and arrow keys or GTFO.

As ALWAYS  :thumb: .

ONLY fvcking numb nuts who use 60% keyboards are Dell or some other pre-made PC users, that don't even know about a bios and how to use one.

So glad to use keyboards with the basic keys needed to tunnel back into any bios to alter the voltages when needed  8) .

Uhhhhh... no? Keys needed to access bios are usually Del or F2, and pretty much any bios on consumer hardware (not OEM stuff, real hardware) post-2012 supports a mouse anyway. You're not some l33t h4xor because you can OC. I'd argue that kind of crowd is *more* likely to have a 60%, as those interested in bios access almost certainly have an interest in computer hardware and peripherals.

People who use OEM systems are far less likely to use a 60% because it's too different from what they're used to.

Man, I'm using a full-sized keyboard and I've nearly run out of keys to use with i3wm let alone MMOs and other programs that need shortcuts. Sure a 60% won't have the same flexing/wobbling problems but I still can't understand how people can use a keyboard without an F row as a daily driver. I can remap a keyboard but I'm not sure I can remap my brain after so many years of full sized boards :confused:

That's a lot of binds lol. Not a fan of i3 (xmonad 4 lyfe) and don't play MMOs, only other programs i really use that require shortcuts are Emacs, and with evil-leader that's ezpz. I understand that they're needed for some people, but when people say that sub-TKL layouts are useless as a blanket statement it makes me  >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 30 May 2017, 12:29:15
Don't worry, they're just n00bs locked in Microsoft's cage.

They haven't used a real computer. ~_^

(http://xahlee.info/kbd/lisp_kbd/Symbolics_keyboard.jpg)
photo by webwit
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 30 May 2017, 22:29:09
That said, dedicated F keys and arrow keys or GTFO.

As ALWAYS  :thumb: .

ONLY fvcking numb nuts who use 60% keyboards are Dell or some other pre-made PC users, that don't even know about a bios and how to use one.

So glad to use keyboards with the basic keys needed to tunnel back into any bios to alter the voltages when needed  8) .

Uhhhhh... no? Keys needed to access bios are usually Del or F2, and pretty much any bios on consumer hardware (not OEM stuff, real hardware) post-2012 supports a mouse anyway. You're not some l33t h4xor because you can OC. I'd argue that kind of crowd is *more* likely to have a 60%, as those interested in bios access almost certainly have an interest in computer hardware and peripherals.

People who use OEM systems are far less likely to use a 60% because it's too different from what they're used to.

Man, I'm using a full-sized keyboard and I've nearly run out of keys to use with i3wm let alone MMOs and other programs that need shortcuts. Sure a 60% won't have the same flexing/wobbling problems but I still can't understand how people can use a keyboard without an F row as a daily driver. I can remap a keyboard but I'm not sure I can remap my brain after so many years of full sized boards :confused:

I've seen people use 60% boards for tablets.  That makes sense as tablets don't really use F keys in the first place.  I'm not much of a tablet user and most of the use I've had for it surrounded web surfing with very little typing needed.  For those small bits of typing, the on-screen keyboard was sufficient.  Thus I really don't have a need for a 60% board.  I could use one if I had to but I heavily prefer a larger keyboard at 75% or larger and really wouldn't mind if some company made a ready-built ANSI 122-key keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Applet on Wed, 31 May 2017, 03:02:24
The 60% struggle is real. I had to add numpad "+" and "-" to my function layer to be able to OC an old PC, but it's rarely an issue :P (i3wm for life tho)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Wed, 31 May 2017, 07:48:11
I honestly don't understand 60% at all.  If you're very short on space (like in a cubicle keyboard tray), I could understand going tenkeyless, but 60% only saves you an inch and change on TKL.  Nobody's desktop is tiny enough to need that extra inch.

Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?  You can still create those layers on a TKL or full size board, and then have the nav cluster and/or numpad when you need it.  Is it some sort of feng shui minimalist appeal?  Fine, but then you can't really argue that it's a more functional board.  It's just an art piece at that point.  Travel allot but don't want to give up your full sized key switches?  This makes the most sense to me, but you really couldn't squeeze a TKL into your bag?

Please, explain what I'm missing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 31 May 2017, 07:57:43
That said, dedicated F keys and arrow keys or GTFO.

As ALWAYS  :thumb: .

ONLY fvcking numb nuts who use 60% keyboards are Dell or some other pre-made PC users, that don't even know about a bios and how to use one.

So glad to use keyboards with the basic keys needed to tunnel back into any bios to alter the voltages when needed  8) .

Uhhhhh... no? Keys needed to access bios are usually Del or F2, and pretty much any bios on consumer hardware (not OEM stuff, real hardware) post-2012 supports a mouse anyway. You're not some l33t h4xor because you can OC. I'd argue that kind of crowd is *more* likely to have a 60%, as those interested in bios access almost certainly have an interest in computer hardware and peripherals.

People who use OEM systems are far less likely to use a 60% because it's too different from what they're used to.

Man, I'm using a full-sized keyboard and I've nearly run out of keys to use with i3wm let alone MMOs and other programs that need shortcuts. Sure a 60% won't have the same flexing/wobbling problems but I still can't understand how people can use a keyboard without an F row as a daily driver. I can remap a keyboard but I'm not sure I can remap my brain after so many years of full sized boards :confused:

I've seen people use 60% boards for tablets.  That makes sense as tablets don't really use F keys in the first place.  I'm not much of a tablet user and most of the use I've had for it surrounded web surfing with very little typing needed.  For those small bits of typing, the on-screen keyboard was sufficient.  Thus I really don't have a need for a 60% board.  I could use one if I had to but I heavily prefer a larger keyboard at 75% or larger and really wouldn't mind if some company made a ready-built ANSI 122-key keyboard.

Now that makes sense to me. I forgot about the tablet aspect of 60% usage. I would totally opt out of most keyboard/touchpad/tablet case combo things
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Applet on Wed, 31 May 2017, 08:01:09
Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?
For me, yes. I find the 60% more ergonomic because I move my hands less. Sure I could have a programmable TKL that still retains the keys that I don't use, but I don't see the point of that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 31 May 2017, 08:17:43
I honestly don't understand 60% at all.  If you're very short on space (like in a cubicle keyboard tray), I could understand going tenkeyless, but 60% only saves you an inch and change on TKL.  Nobody's desktop is tiny enough to need that extra inch.
60% saves over 3×19 mm (assuming standard spacing), that's the width of a narrow mouse.

The average person has ca. 45cm wide shoulders. Upper arms are relaxed, when more or less in parallel with the body. A tenkeyless keyboard is 35 cm wide. That leaves ca. 10-15 cm for mousing. Otherwise, you have to spread the arms outwards, which isn't ergonomic.

If someone uses low mouse sensitivity (like CS players do), even a 60% keyboard can be a bit too wide.

Travel allot but don't want to give up your full sized key switches?  This makes the most sense to me, but you really couldn't squeeze a TKL into your bag?
I sometimes use an external keyboard on the top of my laptop, which is 30 cm wide, i.e., the same width as a 65% or 75% keyboard; a standard tenkeyless would overlap.

And yes, a smaller keyboard fits in my backpack better. It also weights less.

Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?  You can still create those layers on a TKL or full size board, and then have the nav cluster and/or numpad when you need it.
But if you don't need it, there's no reason for it to be there and get in the way, when reaching for the mouse (or other pointing device) or drawing/writing with the right hand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Wed, 31 May 2017, 10:21:46
I honestly don't understand 60% at all.  If you're very short on space (like in a cubicle keyboard tray), I could understand going tenkeyless, but 60% only saves you an inch and change on TKL.  Nobody's desktop is tiny enough to need that extra inch.

Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?  You can still create those layers on a TKL or full size board, and then have the nav cluster and/or numpad when you need it.  Is it some sort of feng shui minimalist appeal?  Fine, but then you can't really argue that it's a more functional board.  It's just an art piece at that point.  Travel allot but don't want to give up your full sized key switches?  This makes the most sense to me, but you really couldn't squeeze a TKL into your bag?

Please, explain what I'm missing.

A 60% is still too big for my required mouse space when playing CS. I need to play on a split 40% to have enough room to move the mouse without hitting the board. I could have the biggest desk in the world but my shoulders can only stretch so far. You see a lot of pros playing with their boards near vertical, because a TKL is still too large for the space they need.

I'll admit a lot of the appeal to me in more compact layouts is the appearance (not really a fan of Poker-style models though), and I've recently started taking a liking to TKL's as well, but you can't tell me that a TKL kept the correct keys. So much wasted space, with keys that I rarely use. I don't need dedicated arrows because I've set up my workflow to not require them, I don't need function keys because what the **** are they even for, and I don't need the nav buttons because I either have their equivalents in emacs or access them rarely enough that a function layer is fine for them. A TKL is also way, way bigger than a 60%, and wouldn't fit in my bag and would like ridiculous on top of my 12' laptop :p
Of course my use case isn't everyone's, but that's why I use what I do.

I also don't think anyone says they're more functional, more ergonomic maybe but the function is the exact same...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 31 May 2017, 11:08:08
Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?
For me, yes. I find the 60% more ergonomic because I move my hands less. Sure I could have a programmable TKL that still retains the keys that I don't use, but I don't see the point of that.

For me, I find a 60% less ergonomic as it requires excessive chording rather than using a single key.  I'd much rather move my hand than have to go into more 3-key chords or create yet more chordings I'll need to remember (and probably end up forgetting).  For simple things like Shift or Alt it's not bad but just about every standard, TKL, 75%, and 60% keyboard puts the Fn key on the right side which, for gaming, is an absolute **** decision when only my left hand is on the keyboard.

I honestly don't understand 60% at all.  If you're very short on space (like in a cubicle keyboard tray), I could understand going tenkeyless, but 60% only saves you an inch and change on TKL.  Nobody's desktop is tiny enough to need that extra inch.

Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?  You can still create those layers on a TKL or full size board, and then have the nav cluster and/or numpad when you need it.  Is it some sort of feng shui minimalist appeal?  Fine, but then you can't really argue that it's a more functional board.  It's just an art piece at that point.  Travel allot but don't want to give up your full sized key switches?  This makes the most sense to me, but you really couldn't squeeze a TKL into your bag?

Please, explain what I'm missing.

A 60% is still too big for my required mouse space when playing CS. I need to play on a split 40% to have enough room to move the mouse without hitting the board. I could have the biggest desk in the world but my shoulders can only stretch so far. You see a lot of pros playing with their boards near vertical, because a TKL is still too large for the space they need.

I'll admit a lot of the appeal to me in more compact layouts is the appearance (not really a fan of Poker-style models though), and I've recently started taking a liking to TKL's as well, but you can't tell me that a TKL kept the correct keys. So much wasted space, with keys that I rarely use. I don't need dedicated arrows because I've set up my workflow to not require them, I don't need function keys because what the **** are they even for, and I don't need the nav buttons because I either have their equivalents in emacs or access them rarely enough that a function layer is fine for them. A TKL is also way, way bigger than a 60%, and wouldn't fit in my bag and would like ridiculous on top of my 12' laptop :p
Of course my use case isn't everyone's, but that's why I use what I do.

I also don't think anyone says they're more functional, more ergonomic maybe but the function is the exact same...

At that point you could probably get something like an Ergodox, the new mech Kinesys Freestyle, or a Matias pro and just scoot the right-hand side of the split away.  Kinesis even suggests it for gaming.

For me, no keys would ever properly replace the arrow keys.  In vim, I can do without them.  In Notepad++ or Atom, not at all.  If anything, I'd simply want them on the left side of the keyboard rather than next to the numpad for home (at work I mouse lefty to ease right forearm pain so the arrow keys on the right side is fine).  It would make web surfing more convenient for hitting Home/End.  I'm also not huge on a TKL as a 75% has basically every key in a compact form.  I'd rather go that route.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Wed, 31 May 2017, 12:12:28
Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?
For me, yes. I find the 60% more ergonomic because I move my hands less. Sure I could have a programmable TKL that still retains the keys that I don't use, but I don't see the point of that.

For me, I find a 60% less ergonomic as it requires excessive chording rather than using a single key.  I'd much rather move my hand than have to go into more 3-key chords or create yet more chordings I'll need to remember (and probably end up forgetting).  For simple things like Shift or Alt it's not bad but just about every standard, TKL, 75%, and 60% keyboard puts the Fn key on the right side which, for gaming, is an absolute **** decision when only my left hand is on the keyboard.

I honestly don't understand 60% at all.  If you're very short on space (like in a cubicle keyboard tray), I could understand going tenkeyless, but 60% only saves you an inch and change on TKL.  Nobody's desktop is tiny enough to need that extra inch.

Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?  You can still create those layers on a TKL or full size board, and then have the nav cluster and/or numpad when you need it.  Is it some sort of feng shui minimalist appeal?  Fine, but then you can't really argue that it's a more functional board.  It's just an art piece at that point.  Travel allot but don't want to give up your full sized key switches?  This makes the most sense to me, but you really couldn't squeeze a TKL into your bag?

Please, explain what I'm missing.

A 60% is still too big for my required mouse space when playing CS. I need to play on a split 40% to have enough room to move the mouse without hitting the board. I could have the biggest desk in the world but my shoulders can only stretch so far. You see a lot of pros playing with their boards near vertical, because a TKL is still too large for the space they need.

I'll admit a lot of the appeal to me in more compact layouts is the appearance (not really a fan of Poker-style models though), and I've recently started taking a liking to TKL's as well, but you can't tell me that a TKL kept the correct keys. So much wasted space, with keys that I rarely use. I don't need dedicated arrows because I've set up my workflow to not require them, I don't need function keys because what the **** are they even for, and I don't need the nav buttons because I either have their equivalents in emacs or access them rarely enough that a function layer is fine for them. A TKL is also way, way bigger than a 60%, and wouldn't fit in my bag and would like ridiculous on top of my 12' laptop :p
Of course my use case isn't everyone's, but that's why I use what I do.

I also don't think anyone says they're more functional, more ergonomic maybe but the function is the exact same...

At that point you could probably get something like an Ergodox, the new mech Kinesys Freestyle, or a Matias pro and just scoot the right-hand side of the split away.  Kinesis even suggests it for gaming.

For me, no keys would ever properly replace the arrow keys.  In vim, I can do without them.  In Notepad++ or Atom, not at all.  If anything, I'd simply want them on the left side of the keyboard rather than next to the numpad for home (at work I mouse lefty to ease right forearm pain so the arrow keys on the right side is fine).  It would make web surfing more convenient for hitting Home/End.  I'm also not huge on a TKL as a 75% has basically every key in a compact form.  I'd rather go that route.

This is pretty much where I'm at on this.  60% does make a bit more sense in the context of hardcore gaming, but I can't imagine myself being productive with such a compact layout.  Even in the context of gaming, it feels like the extra keys are removed as a concession (to get the mouse closer to the board) rather than as a real feature.  The keyboard still does less at the end of the day.

I'll admit to being environmentally biased toward more keys: I sometimes work professionally on the iSeries (the system that IBM's 122 key battleship was designed to interface with), and even 101/104 key boards require allot of chording when dealing with that system.  F13-F24 requires shift+F1-F12.  The SysRq key is actually used.  The remaining ten buttons were replaced with various difficult to remember shortcuts and labyrinthine menus in the IBM Terminal Emulator. Dealing with that type of stuff would quickly get silly on 60% layouts. I can't even imagine trying to use this system without an arrow cluster.

But even when I'm not dealing with ancient legacy stuff, most IDEs have reams of keyboard shortcuts that seem like they'd be inconvenient to pull off on anything smaller than a TKL board.  It's just not worth it for a bit more free space on my desktop.
For me (and most non-gamers, I'd imagine) the best solution is to just place the mouse on the left: that eliminates the long travel issue and allows me to keep my useful key clusters on the right.  It took less than two weeks for me to pick up left handed mousing, and I'd never go back.

For extreme gaming where, they can probably get a pass (even if a half keyboard is probably more ideal for that.)  However, the HHKB (the most famous 60% board) labels itself as a productivity board for professionals, and that makes no sense to me at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 31 May 2017, 12:40:13
For extreme gaming where, they can probably get a pass (even if a half keyboard is probably more ideal for that.)  However, the HHKB (the most famous 60% board) labels itself as a productivity board for professionals, and that makes no sense to me at all.
You're ignoring a big portion of the *nix world.

Eiiti Wada, the original designer of HHKB, is an Emacs user. The list of famous HHKB users includes RMS or Bjarne Stroustrup.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 31 May 2017, 12:50:34
Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?
For me, yes. I find the 60% more ergonomic because I move my hands less. Sure I could have a programmable TKL that still retains the keys that I don't use, but I don't see the point of that.

For me, I find a 60% less ergonomic as it requires excessive chording rather than using a single key.  I'd much rather move my hand than have to go into more 3-key chords or create yet more chordings I'll need to remember (and probably end up forgetting).  For simple things like Shift or Alt it's not bad but just about every standard, TKL, 75%, and 60% keyboard puts the Fn key on the right side which, for gaming, is an absolute **** decision when only my left hand is on the keyboard.

I honestly don't understand 60% at all.  If you're very short on space (like in a cubicle keyboard tray), I could understand going tenkeyless, but 60% only saves you an inch and change on TKL.  Nobody's desktop is tiny enough to need that extra inch.

Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?  You can still create those layers on a TKL or full size board, and then have the nav cluster and/or numpad when you need it.  Is it some sort of feng shui minimalist appeal?  Fine, but then you can't really argue that it's a more functional board.  It's just an art piece at that point.  Travel allot but don't want to give up your full sized key switches?  This makes the most sense to me, but you really couldn't squeeze a TKL into your bag?

Please, explain what I'm missing.

A 60% is still too big for my required mouse space when playing CS. I need to play on a split 40% to have enough room to move the mouse without hitting the board. I could have the biggest desk in the world but my shoulders can only stretch so far. You see a lot of pros playing with their boards near vertical, because a TKL is still too large for the space they need.

I'll admit a lot of the appeal to me in more compact layouts is the appearance (not really a fan of Poker-style models though), and I've recently started taking a liking to TKL's as well, but you can't tell me that a TKL kept the correct keys. So much wasted space, with keys that I rarely use. I don't need dedicated arrows because I've set up my workflow to not require them, I don't need function keys because what the **** are they even for, and I don't need the nav buttons because I either have their equivalents in emacs or access them rarely enough that a function layer is fine for them. A TKL is also way, way bigger than a 60%, and wouldn't fit in my bag and would like ridiculous on top of my 12' laptop :p
Of course my use case isn't everyone's, but that's why I use what I do.

I also don't think anyone says they're more functional, more ergonomic maybe but the function is the exact same...

At that point you could probably get something like an Ergodox, the new mech Kinesys Freestyle, or a Matias pro and just scoot the right-hand side of the split away.  Kinesis even suggests it for gaming.

For me, no keys would ever properly replace the arrow keys.  In vim, I can do without them.  In Notepad++ or Atom, not at all.  If anything, I'd simply want them on the left side of the keyboard rather than next to the numpad for home (at work I mouse lefty to ease right forearm pain so the arrow keys on the right side is fine).  It would make web surfing more convenient for hitting Home/End.  I'm also not huge on a TKL as a 75% has basically every key in a compact form.  I'd rather go that route.

This is pretty much where I'm at on this.  60% does make a bit more sense in the context of hardcore gaming, but I can't imagine myself being productive with such a compact layout.  Even in the context of gaming, it feels like the extra keys are removed as a concession (to get the mouse closer to the board) rather than as a real feature.  The keyboard still does less at the end of the day.

I'll admit to being environmentally biased toward more keys: I sometimes work professionally on the iSeries (the system that IBM's 122 key battleship was designed to interface with), and even 101/104 key boards require allot of chording when dealing with that system.  F13-F24 requires shift+F1-F12.  The SysRq key is actually used.  The remaining ten buttons were replaced with various difficult to remember shortcuts and labyrinthine menus in the IBM Terminal Emulator. Dealing with that type of stuff would quickly get silly on 60% layouts. I can't even imagine trying to use this system without an arrow cluster.

But even when I'm not dealing with ancient legacy stuff, most IDEs have reams of keyboard shortcuts that seem like they'd be inconvenient to pull off on anything smaller than a TKL board.  It's just not worth it for a bit more free space on my desktop.
For me (and most non-gamers, I'd imagine) the best solution is to just place the mouse on the left: that eliminates the long travel issue and allows me to keep my useful key clusters on the right.  It took less than two weeks for me to pick up left handed mousing, and I'd never go back.

For extreme gaming where, they can probably get a pass (even if a half keyboard is probably more ideal for that.)  However, the HHKB (the most famous 60% board) labels itself as a productivity board for professionals, and that makes no sense to me at all.

Certain games lend themselves better to the compact layouts than others.  A lot of FPS games will do well with a 60% board but I'm curious to see how people handle anything that cuts the numrow out as most FPS use weapon selection via numrow.  You can remap it but chances are a lot of other keys are in use.  I'd hate to get into serious chording in the middle of a game like that.  I've only played WoW on a full size but could likely skip the F-row there and not worry about it.  I'd just need to remap all the Druid shapeshift forms

Mainframe terminals are in a similar boat to the AS/400 or iSeries stuff (iSeries... because IBM can't just stick to a name, dammit) with the 24 key F-row.  I also can't imagine using TSO and especially ISPF without an arrow cluster.  It's just not going to happen.  Those are limited situations though.  Not too many people need access into mainframes these days.  Though arrows continue to find good use.

Smaller boards becomes a problem if you're already relying on a lot of keyboard shortcuts.  It makes creating new ones more difficult as you have to avoid mapping conflicts and could put you into 4-key combinations if you've already got a 3-key combination and now need to hit the Fn key to handle normally standard keys that are now on another layer.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 31 May 2017, 13:05:21
For extreme gaming where, they can probably get a pass (even if a half keyboard is probably more ideal for that.)  However, the HHKB (the most famous 60% board) labels itself as a productivity board for professionals, and that makes no sense to me at all.
You're ignoring a big portion of the *nix world.

Eiiti Wada, the original designer of HHKB, is an Emacs user. The list of famous HHKB users includes RMS or Bjarne Stroustrup.

Ahh, the old UNIX layout that Sun used for years.  As a UNIX admin, I cheered when Sun abandoned that layout for ANSI and that's having used it for years before they finally switched.  The layout is subpar for an admin though I can see where programmers might prefer it.  The control key swap is fine.  The migration of the \| key to the numrow sucks.  I prefer that to have better access to the \| key than the backspace.  Perhaps if you're in vim or emacs all day you won't notice it but it definitely wasn't ideal when I used that layout.  Might still have an old Sun Type 5 sitting around with that layout funny enough.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 31 May 2017, 13:24:37
I'm not a fan of symbol positions on US QWERTY in general, and there are a few dozens of extra typographic symbols and accented letters, that I need to type very often. Chording-based solutions have been known for good 40+ years, though; Apple has continued only a small portion of the tradition from Engelbart and Space Cadet. Compose isn't a new concept either.

If there's something I dislike about the usual HHKB, it's the huge-ass spacebar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Wed, 31 May 2017, 14:25:47
While not a huge fan of how they feel compared to Cherry or gateron I prefer the SOUND of Blue kailh switches as they are far more muted and not nearly as annoying as Cherry or Gateron or Outemu etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Wed, 31 May 2017, 15:21:46
While not a huge fan of how they feel compared to Cherry or gateron I prefer the SOUND of Blue kailh switches as they are far more muted and not nearly as annoying as Cherry or Gateron or Outemu etc.

Agreed.  MX Blues feel pretty nice for typing, but sound annoying.  Something about that high pitched clicking gets under my skin, especially when I'm not the one typing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Wed, 31 May 2017, 15:25:05
HHKB users love their backspace position because they are terrible typists
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 31 May 2017, 15:36:28
HHKB users love their backspace position because they are terrible typists
Meh.

I'm currently correcting text written by someone else. Of course I need to delete their mistakes somehow (and not just typos).

Backspace is also useful for moving in history.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jcc04 on Wed, 31 May 2017, 16:24:37
HHKB users love their backspace position because they are terrible typists

HHKB's layout is awful for more than just that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 31 May 2017, 16:54:45
HHKB users love their backspace position because they are terrible typists
Meh.

I'm currently correcting text written by someone else. Of course I need to delete their mistakes somehow (and not just typos).

Backspace is also useful for moving in history.

Backspace for history?

Ctrl-P for previous in history, Ctrl-N for next. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 31 May 2017, 16:57:57
Backspace for history?

Ctrl-P for previous in history, Ctrl-N for next.
[web|file|image] browser

When I'm in shell/emacs, I can obviously back-delete with Ctrl-H too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Wed, 31 May 2017, 17:25:10
I honestly don't understand 60% at all.  If you're very short on space (like in a cubicle keyboard tray), I could understand going tenkeyless, but 60% only saves you an inch and change on TKL.  Nobody's desktop is tiny enough to need that extra inch.

Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?  You can still create those layers on a TKL or full size board, and then have the nav cluster and/or numpad when you need it.  Is it some sort of feng shui minimalist appeal?  Fine, but then you can't really argue that it's a more functional board.  It's just an art piece at that point.  Travel allot but don't want to give up your full sized key switches?  This makes the most sense to me, but you really couldn't squeeze a TKL into your bag?

Please, explain what I'm missing.

A 60% is still too big for my required mouse space when playing CS. I need to play on a split 40% to have enough room to move the mouse without hitting the board. I could have the biggest desk in the world but my shoulders can only stretch so far. You see a lot of pros playing with their boards near vertical, because a TKL is still too large for the space they need.

I'll admit a lot of the appeal to me in more compact layouts is the appearance (not really a fan of Poker-style models though), and I've recently started taking a liking to TKL's as well, but you can't tell me that a TKL kept the correct keys. So much wasted space, with keys that I rarely use. I don't need dedicated arrows because I've set up my workflow to not require them, I don't need function keys because what the **** are they even for, and I don't need the nav buttons because I either have their equivalents in emacs or access them rarely enough that a function layer is fine for them. A TKL is also way, way bigger than a 60%, and wouldn't fit in my bag and would like ridiculous on top of my 12' laptop :p
Of course my use case isn't everyone's, but that's why I use what I do.

I also don't think anyone says they're more functional, more ergonomic maybe but the function is the exact same...

Get one of those gaming keypad things.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Wed, 31 May 2017, 21:21:46
If there's something I dislike about the usual HHKB, it's the huge-ass spacebar.

But it's smaller than a standard spacebar.................
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Wed, 31 May 2017, 21:23:39
I honestly don't understand 60% at all.  If you're very short on space (like in a cubicle keyboard tray), I could understand going tenkeyless, but 60% only saves you an inch and change on TKL.  Nobody's desktop is tiny enough to need that extra inch.

Is the selling point that you're moving your hands less because all of the functions are layered over the alpha block?  You can still create those layers on a TKL or full size board, and then have the nav cluster and/or numpad when you need it.  Is it some sort of feng shui minimalist appeal?  Fine, but then you can't really argue that it's a more functional board.  It's just an art piece at that point.  Travel allot but don't want to give up your full sized key switches?  This makes the most sense to me, but you really couldn't squeeze a TKL into your bag?

Please, explain what I'm missing.

A 60% is still too big for my required mouse space when playing CS. I need to play on a split 40% to have enough room to move the mouse without hitting the board. I could have the biggest desk in the world but my shoulders can only stretch so far. You see a lot of pros playing with their boards near vertical, because a TKL is still too large for the space they need.

I'll admit a lot of the appeal to me in more compact layouts is the appearance (not really a fan of Poker-style models though), and I've recently started taking a liking to TKL's as well, but you can't tell me that a TKL kept the correct keys. So much wasted space, with keys that I rarely use. I don't need dedicated arrows because I've set up my workflow to not require them, I don't need function keys because what the **** are they even for, and I don't need the nav buttons because I either have their equivalents in emacs or access them rarely enough that a function layer is fine for them. A TKL is also way, way bigger than a 60%, and wouldn't fit in my bag and would like ridiculous on top of my 12' laptop :p
Of course my use case isn't everyone's, but that's why I use what I do.

I also don't think anyone says they're more functional, more ergonomic maybe but the function is the exact same...

Get one of those gaming keypad things.

They don't work very well, are super uncomfortable, and have a limited purpose. I take my 40% with me, and can use it for typing. Can't do that with a gamepad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 01 June 2017, 02:34:09
Backspace for history?

Ctrl-P for previous in history, Ctrl-N for next.
[web|file|image] browser

When I'm in shell/emacs, I can obviously back-delete with Ctrl-H too.

I must say the only time I use backspace in a browser is by mistake.  My hand's probably already on the mouse if I'm in a browser so I'll just hit the thumb back button.  Pics, sure, but I'm mostly going forward rather than back.  I guess I just never saw the backspace as a problem where it is.  For file browsing I really only use a few keys.  Probably shift, ctrl, and delete primarily.  That or I'm renaming a file.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 01 June 2017, 03:04:02
I must say the only time I use backspace in a browser is by mistake.
You must be one of the few people, who like that it's disabled in most mainstream browsers by default then.

For file browsing I really only use a few keys.  Probably shift, ctrl, and delete primarily.  That or I'm renaming a file.
Navigation in the directory structure…? Unless, of course, you're using the mouse, or . and .. are displayed as files.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Meyvn on Thu, 01 June 2017, 21:31:03
Having glanced through this thread, I feel like most "unpopular opinions" on here are actually just *controversial* opinions, which usually are not all that unpopular. I share a lot of popular opinions, but allow me to contribute what I'm sure are some genuinely unpopular ones, from most to least unpopular.

1. I dislike both standard placements of the Control key. Despite growing up on MS-DOS and Windows machines and scarcely encountering a Mac until late 2004, nearly 15 years into my experience with PCs, I so drastically prefer the Command key shortcuts to Control ones that I swap the left-side Control and Alt on Windows machines, despite spending a majority of my time using Windows again for the past three years.

2. Every linear switch I've ever tried (Cherry MX Black, Red, Speed Silver, complicated green Alps, linear simplified black Alps, linear modded Matias Click, linear modded Alps Cream Damped, Matias quiet linear) I find to be simply horrible. I even game, and have no trouble acknowledging that from a technical standpoint, they're superior for gaming. It doesn't seem to matter how well made or well regarded a switch I try. I just hate the feeling of pressing down on a switch and feeling no tactile bump of any kind. Obviously there are linear switches I have not tried, and I'll never pass up an opportunity to give a new keyboard switch a shot (I feel compelled to try even the cheapest, ugliest rubber dome boards whenever I first encounter them) but man, do I hate pressing the linear switches I *have* tried. It just feels to me like something has gone wrong.

3. I genuinely like Apple butterfly switches. They are, of course, not in the same league as most full-travel mechanicals, but they're my favorite true laptop switch I've yet tried.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 01 June 2017, 23:41:25
I must say the only time I use backspace in a browser is by mistake.
You must be one of the few people, who like that it's disabled in most mainstream browsers by default then.

For file browsing I really only use a few keys.  Probably shift, ctrl, and delete primarily.  That or I'm renaming a file.
Navigation in the directory structure…? Unless, of course, you're using the mouse, or . and .. are displayed as files.

Honestly I'm not even sure I've noticed that backspace isn't part of navigation any longer.  That said, good.  It was a pain in the ass when it was around. 

For file browsing, I'm one of two situations.  I'm at the CLI and using the keyboard or I'm in a file manager and mostly using the mouse. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Fri, 02 June 2017, 08:44:40
Keyboards without winkey aren't worth considering.   :-X

They're only worth considering if you have Control in the proper place, otherwise I can't interact properly with my computer.

Same for me but with winkey. How am I supposed to move my windows?

That's what i meant, have control instead of caps and rebind where control would be on bottom row to super

Oh I see. Yeah that's perfectly sensible!

That said, dedicated F keys and arrow keys or GTFO.

As ALWAYS  :thumb: .

ONLY fvcking numb nuts who use 60% keyboards are Dell or some other pre-made PC users, that don't even know about a bios and how to use one.

So glad to use keyboards with the basic keys needed to tunnel back into any bios to alter the voltages when needed  8) .

Haha holy **** :D Modern BIOSes even have mouse support. However, dedicated arrow keys are awesome, and I really want to put a Numpad in my Atomic, whenever that is done. Gonna get that Bananasplit on my hands to get arrows in a proper size :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Fri, 02 June 2017, 10:05:11
Having glanced through this thread, I feel like most "unpopular opinions" on here are actually just *controversial* opinions, which usually are not all that unpopular. I share a lot of popular opinions, but allow me to contribute what I'm sure are some genuinely unpopular ones, from most to least unpopular.

1. I dislike both standard placements of the Control key. Despite growing up on MS-DOS and Windows machines and scarcely encountering a Mac until late 2004, nearly 15 years into my experience with PCs, I so drastically prefer the Command key shortcuts to Control ones that I swap the left-side Control and Alt on Windows machines, despite spending a majority of my time using Windows again for the past three years.

2. Every linear switch I've ever tried (Cherry MX Black, Red, Speed Silver, complicated green Alps, linear simplified black Alps, linear modded Matias Click, linear modded Alps Cream Damped, Matias quiet linear) I find to be simply horrible. I even game, and have no trouble acknowledging that from a technical standpoint, they're superior for gaming. It doesn't seem to matter how well made or well regarded a switch I try. I just hate the feeling of pressing down on a switch and feeling no tactile bump of any kind. Obviously there are linear switches I have not tried, and I'll never pass up an opportunity to give a new keyboard switch a shot (I feel compelled to try even the cheapest, ugliest rubber dome boards whenever I first encounter them) but man, do I hate pressing the linear switches I *have* tried. It just feels to me like something has gone wrong.

3. I genuinely like Apple butterfly switches. They are, of course, not in the same league as most full-travel mechanicals, but they're my favorite true laptop switch I've yet tried.


Fair point.  I'll play by these rules and post some genuinely unpopular opinions:

1) I've actually come to prefer cross navs to t-navs.  On my IBM 122 key, which has a cross nav with center button, I've mapped the center to be an Fn key of sorts for internet browsing.  It turns left/right into page up/down, up/down into home/end, ins/del into new tab and close tab, and End into open most recent closed tab.  I haven't had any issues tapping the center button instead of down by mistake.

2) I prefer the sound of Model F to Model M.  Most people are the other way around, but I actually like the purposeful clicking and pinging of the F.  The M just sounds dull, and whatever frequency the springs are resonating at bothers me after awhile.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 02 June 2017, 10:18:26
2) I prefer the sound of Model F to Model M.  Most people are the other way around, but I actually like the purposeful clicking and pinging of the F.  The M just sounds dull, and whatever frequency the springs are resonating at bothers me after awhile.

I don't like the sound of either Model F/M.  I think Alps are my favorite clicky switch sound.

Though I've heard from at least two people that you can get close to that sound if you bolt mod the M.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mrduul on Fri, 02 June 2017, 11:30:23
2) I prefer the sound of Model F to Model M.  Most people are the other way around, but I actually like the purposeful clicking and pinging of the F.  The M just sounds dull, and whatever frequency the springs are resonating at bothers me after awhile.

I don't like the sound of either Model F/M.  I think Alps are my favorite clicky switch sound.

Though I've heard from at least two people that you can get close to that sound if you bolt mod the M.

Blue Alps?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 02 June 2017, 11:40:25
2) I prefer the sound of Model F to Model M.  Most people are the other way around, but I actually like the purposeful clicking and pinging of the F.  The M just sounds dull, and whatever frequency the springs are resonating at bothers me after awhile.

I don't like the sound of either Model F/M.  I think Alps are my favorite clicky switch sound.

Though I've heard from at least two people that you can get close to that sound if you bolt mod the M.

Blue Alps?

Blue or White - doesn't matter.  I like the sound of all Alps clicky switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 02 June 2017, 16:05:22
Once you adapt your typing style a bit MX reds are fantastic for typing on, especially with Cherry profile PBT.  Iv'e actually come to enjoy them more than tactile Switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 02 June 2017, 22:41:24
Once you adapt your typing style a bit MX reds are fantastic for typing on, especially with Cherry profile PBT.  Iv'e actually come to enjoy them more than tactile Switches.

MX reds are fantastic for typing.  I'm typing on them right now.  OEM PBT is pretty solid.  Haven't tried Cherry PBT specifically, though GMK ABS is solid as well. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: riktors on Fri, 02 June 2017, 23:06:10
I hate winkeyless boards, I use the meta key all the time and leaving it off seems crazy to me when the space is there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Sat, 03 June 2017, 02:38:49
I hate winkeyless boards, I use the meta key all the time and leaving it off seems crazy to me when the space is there.

Meta is the Alt key, Super is winkey :p rebind other keys, if you use it that much and don't need control often, put it in place of capslock or right shift
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 03 June 2017, 05:20:25
Keyboards with floating keys should not have backlighting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: riktors on Sat, 03 June 2017, 07:54:26
I hate winkeyless boards, I use the meta key all the time and leaving it off seems crazy to me when the space is there.

Meta is the Alt key, Super is winkey :p rebind other keys, if you use it that much and don't need control often, put it in place of capslock or right shift

Oops said the wrong one! What I get for posting late. I know I can always rebind it elsewhere, it's totally a trivial gripe but that's the point of the thread right?  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pabile on Sat, 03 June 2017, 23:24:52
trying out HHKB's fn layer in a DC-2014 and find it the worst!
spaceFN with this layout is the best for office/non-gaming use
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 06 June 2017, 07:32:36
Keyboards with floating keys should not have backlighting.

Most keyboards shouldn't have backlighting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 06 June 2017, 07:34:06
trying out HHKB's fn layer in a DC-2014 and find it the worst!
spaceFN with this layout is the best for office/non-gaming use
(Attachment Link)

Have you used an actual HHKB?

Edited, did not see your second comment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: THEGUY69 on Tue, 06 June 2017, 21:45:24
Using a 60% percent layout. I need that num pad bros. Even a model F layout is fine, Just need that num pad. I own a pok3r that I don't use that often due to the layout. Love the switches though, might get mx clears in a full size board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Fri, 09 June 2017, 13:34:14
Unpopular Opinion:

-> The MX-gen (ie. earlier) Razer BlackWidow Ultimate is very well built... it may actually be the best built keyboard that I have, actually.



Using a 60% percent layout. I need that num pad bros. Even a model F layout is fine, Just need that num pad. I own a pok3r that I don't use that often due to the layout. Love the switches though, might get mx clears in a full size board.

Get a dedicated Numpad like the Realforce 23U.  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Sun, 11 June 2017, 07:22:36
-> The MX-gen (ie. earlier) Razer BlackWidow Ultimate is very well built... it may actually be the best built keyboard that I have, actually.

I've heard that quite a few times and nobody ever tried to dispute it, so I reckon that's not really an unpopular opinion, just one that doesn't get brought up often.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kasakka on Sun, 11 June 2017, 08:16:47
Using a 60% percent layout. I need that num pad bros. Even a model F layout is fine, Just need that num pad. I own a pok3r that I don't use that often due to the layout. Love the switches though, might get mx clears in a full size board.

You could program a numpad somewhere in the alphas on another layer. That said, it can be a tad tricky to use without the caps indicating the numbers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Sun, 11 June 2017, 08:39:52
Iv'e never understood people complaining about the lack of a numpad with smaller layouts...Just buy a damn separate one which is more ergonomic since you can relocate it at will not getting in the way of mousing space and move it out of your way entirely when you don't need it.  I do not own a single keyboard at this point with a built in numpad as I find the concept quite obsolete with ones you can just use and move at will.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 11 June 2017, 08:56:45
-> The MX-gen (ie. earlier) Razer BlackWidow Ultimate is very well built... it may actually be the best built keyboard that I have, actually.

I've heard that quite a few times and nobody ever tried to dispute it, so I reckon that's not really an unpopular opinion, just one that doesn't get brought up often.

Not long ago, it was the keyboard to hate on. It was pretty much a meme around here.

I don't see it as much anymore since there are so many more boards available than there were just a few years ago. Having collected as many boards as I have, I've come to appreciate that it's actually quite a solid board, especially for the time.

To this day, it's the most rigid chassis I've come across... absolutely no creaks or noises when I apply a twisting force from either end.  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: OneNightFriend on Sun, 11 June 2017, 09:28:02
Using a 60% percent layout. I need that num pad bros. Even a model F layout is fine, Just need that num pad. I own a pok3r that I don't use that often due to the layout. Love the switches though, might get mx clears in a full size board.
You could always get a separate numpad if you otherwise like 60%.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: OneNightFriend on Sun, 11 June 2017, 09:31:04
I hate winkeyless boards, I use the meta key all the time and leaving it off seems crazy to me when the space is there.

Meta is the Alt key, Super is winkey rebind other keys, if you use it that much and don't need control often, put it in place of capslock or right shift

Oops said the wrong one! What I get for posting late. I know I can always rebind it elsewhere, it's totally a trivial gripe but that's the point of the thread right?  :D
I get you. What's the point of not having the key if it just leaves a big gap?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Mon, 12 June 2017, 06:51:22
I hate winkeyless boards, I use the meta key all the time and leaving it off seems crazy to me when the space is there.

Meta is the Alt key, Super is winkey rebind other keys, if you use it that much and don't need control often, put it in place of capslock or right shift


Oops said the wrong one! What I get for posting late. I know I can always rebind it elsewhere, it's totally a trivial gripe but that's the point of the thread right?  :D
I get you. What's the point of not having the key if it just leaves a big gap?


aesthetics, gives a more "vintage" or balanced look. Other than that not much  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 12 June 2017, 16:01:03
I'm not sure if this qualifies as an unpopular opinion…

When seeing photos of others' desktops, I like how 60% keyboards look small, especially in front of large monitors. It's kind of deceptive, though. In practice, I often bump with a mouse into the keyboard (or feel like overreaching for a trackball), but my wrists aren't exactly spread wide enough while typing—and my keyboards are somewhere between 60% and 90%.

I have no idea how to approach this. Maybe stop thinking about it. Or use something else instead of a traditional keyboard and a mouse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Wed, 21 June 2017, 05:25:03
-> The MX-gen (ie. earlier) Razer BlackWidow Ultimate is very well built... it may actually be the best built keyboard that I have, actually.

I've heard that quite a few times and nobody ever tried to dispute it, so I reckon that's not really an unpopular opinion, just one that doesn't get brought up often.

Not long ago, it was the keyboard to hate on. It was pretty much a meme around here.

I don't see it as much anymore since there are so many more boards available than there were just a few years ago. Having collected as many boards as I have, I've come to appreciate that it's actually quite a solid board, especially for the time.

To this day, it's the most rigid chassis I've come across... absolutely no creaks or noises when I apply a twisting force from either end.  :cool:

Yeah but that was always about the version with Kailh switches, right? I know people just said "BlackWidow is garbage", but if someone brings up that the Cherry version was decent, I have not once seen somebody else try and dispute that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lazylewis on Thu, 22 June 2017, 06:18:03
Tried 40% for months at work, pointless board size. Nothing gained over 60% and plenty lost.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 22 June 2017, 07:31:25
Tried 40% for months at work, pointless board size. Nothing gained over 60% and plenty lost.


You should elaborate on your experience in a separate thread. It may enlighten us that may be interested in give 50% and 40% percent a try.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 22 June 2017, 08:18:52
That's the thing I struggle to grasp. Assuming standard key spacing, a 60% keyboard is always going to be at least 28.5cm wide and 8.5cm deep, plus bezel. The difference between 60% and 75% is 2 cm in either direction, ditto for 40% and 60%.

If the keyboard is supposed to be used at a desktop and not carried around in a pocket, what's the point of going smaller than the 75%? The largest difference—after moving away from tenkeyless/full-size—is going split.

Of course, that assumes a more or less standard layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eksuen on Thu, 22 June 2017, 12:16:15
That's the thing I struggle to grasp. Assuming standard key spacing, a 60% keyboard is always going to be at least 28.5cm wide and 8.5cm deep, plus bezel. The difference between 60% and 75% is 2 cm in either direction, ditto for 40% and 60%.

If the keyboard is supposed to be used at a desktop and not carried around in a pocket, what's the point of going smaller than the 75%? The largest difference—after moving away from tenkeyless/full-size—is going split.

Of course, that assumes a more or less standard layout.

Aesthetics? Some people don't like the cramped look of a 75%.

I have no real need for dedicated nav cluster and F keys. I have no issue accessing them when needed on a 60%.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 22 June 2017, 12:38:53
Well, there are multiple way to look at it.

75% keyboards are some of the most common in the market: almost every laptop has one, unless it features a numpad, hence a 90% keyboard. The problem is that there's no sensible standard for them.

It's no surprise that laptops and compact keyboards use something like that, because it doesn't waste as much space as tenkeyless (or IBM Model M's navigation section respectively), but keeps pretty much all the keys expected by mainstream operating systems.

Does it look cluttered? Perhaps. However, calling it cluttered compared to a "standard" 60% keyboard is idiotic, because even that layout is entirely arbitrary.

What I can get behind in terms of looks, hmm, something like Planck? That does have both symmetry and minimalism.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eksuen on Thu, 22 June 2017, 13:38:43
Well, there are multiple way to look at it.

75% keyboards are some of the most common in the market: almost every laptop has one, unless it features a numpad, hence a 90% keyboard. The problem is that there's no sensible standard for them.

It's no surprise that laptops and compact keyboards use something like that, because it doesn't waste as much space as tenkeyless (or IBM Model M's navigation section respectively), but keeps pretty much all the keys expected by mainstream operating systems.

Does it look cluttered? Perhaps. However, calling it cluttered compared to a "standard" 60% keyboard is idiotic, because even that layout is entirely arbitrary.

What I can get behind in terms of looks, hmm, something like Planck? That does have both symmetry and minimalism.

True, but laptops can get away with nonstandard key sizes. That helps with the space savings whilst maintaining functionality (in terms of number of dedicated keys). It's different for mechs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 22 June 2017, 14:27:03
It has nothing to do with "nonstandard" key sizes and absolutely nothing to do with so-called "mechs". The keyboard either does, or doesn't allow efficient and comfortable usage in one way or another. It's inadvertently happened that laptops often have relatively decent layouts within the mainstream in the end.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 22 June 2017, 14:45:06
I am not sure if this is the proper thread to discuss the features of different keyboard sizes. Not trying to spam this thread, just my two cents on this: Personally, a sixty or a sixty plus left hand number pad makes the better fit for my working style. The only single and simple reason being that I need to have direct access to my mouse on the right side without stretching my wrists due to some carpal tunnel syndrome issues I suffered in the past, while keeping the center line of the main typing aligned at the center of my hands. That is why a full keyboard size is a poor option for me, a TKL is a bit better, but still, it makes the center line to move a bit to the left and makes grabbing the mouse a bit more stressful. The only best option is a sixty or, ideally, a sixty plus a left side number pad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eksuen on Thu, 22 June 2017, 16:11:39
It has nothing to do with "nonstandard" key sizes and absolutely nothing to do with so-called "mechs". The keyboard either does, or doesn't allow efficient and comfortable usage in one way or another. It's inadvertently happened that laptops often have relatively decent layouts within the mainstream in the end.

Yes, it does. And "efficient and comfortable usage" for whom? Key spacing and key sizing can differ between laptop chiclet keyboards and mechanical keyboards, which means what constitutes "efficient and comfortable usage in one way or another" may differ from one person to the next.

Look, I'm not here to try to convert you to a 60% or tell you your opinion of them and those that use them is unwelcome. But, there is a point, or many points as the case my be, to using something smaller than a 75%.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 22 June 2017, 17:10:03
Key spacing and key sizing can differ between laptop chiclet keyboards and mechanical keyboards
There's a standard for key spacing, and most actually manufacturers respect that. (Although smaller vertical spacing would be beneficial for nearly all users.)

And it has nothing to do with "mechanical keyboards" (which is BS term to begin with). Cherry G80s have 19mm spacing, G84s have 18mm spacing. Both have mechanical-contact switches.

Key sizes? Do you mean things like spacebar width? Well, the common 6.25u width is a waste of space, a similar thing holds for Shift keys and the rest is a result of the awkward row staggering. There's no need for keys larger than 2u, if they're in the right places, and most people have pretty similar hands (the differences are smaller than the setback caused by the industry standard for physical layout).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: eksuen on Thu, 22 June 2017, 17:29:47
Key spacing and key sizing can differ between laptop chiclet keyboards and mechanical keyboards
There's a standard for key spacing, and most actually manufacturers respect that. (Although smaller vertical spacing would be beneficial for nearly all users.)

And it has nothing to do with "mechanical keyboards" (which is BS term to begin with). Cherry G80s have 19mm spacing, G84s have 18mm spacing. Both have mechanical-contact switches.

Key sizes? Do you mean things like spacebar width? Well, the common 6.25u width is a waste of space, a similar thing holds for Shift keys and the rest is a result of the awkward row staggering. There's no need for keys larger than 2u, if they're in the right places, and most people have pretty similar hands (the differences are smaller than the setback caused by the industry standard for physical layout).

I'm not saying standards don't exist, only that variation does.

I'm not here to debate nomenclature either. By mechanical I mean MX- or Alps-style where the individual switches and accompanying keycaps physically limit how tightly you can place keys.

Key width is one aspect. Key length can also change. The F keys and arrow keys on my work laptop, for example, are neither 1u in width nor 1u in length (i.e. they are rectangles smaller than 1u x 1u). I think you underestimate how different people's hands can be and I also think it's unfair of you to make the determination that the difference is negligible such that your standard of efficiency and comfort is still met.

You seem dead set on picking apart my every word whilst ignoring the overall message. That's fine. Your prerogative and all that. I have nothing more to say here.

EDIT: spelling
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 22 June 2017, 18:30:48
I'm not here to debate nomenclature either. By mechanical I mean MX- or Alps-style where the individual switches and accompanying keycaps physically limit how tightly you can place keys.
That's on virtually any keyboard. The exact measure depends how the plate/PCB and keycaps are designed. There's a standard for that, but as I said: keyboards, that don't adhere to the standard, do exist. Cherry G84s (with mechanical-contact Cherry ML switches), some keyboards with Alps switches and large keycaps—or half-keycaps on Matias keyboards—microTron… or custom keyboards, such as kurplop's (with ML or Matias switches).

The majority does adhere to the standard, though; the differences in spacing are tiny (0.1 mm or so).

I think you underestimate how different people's hands can be
Symmetrical hands, each with four fingers (with very similar length ratios) and an opposable thumb, all with similar joints etc. The differences are a centimeter here or there.

No healthy human has hands that even remotely resemble the standard keyboard or fit on it naturally. Which is the main point here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lazylewis on Fri, 23 June 2017, 16:27:04
Most custom keyboards are ugly. The ones that look good are usually a copy of an existing board like the HHKB or the 660m.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doluded on Sat, 24 June 2017, 02:16:30
Most custom keyboards are ugly. The ones that look good are usually a copy of an existing board like the HHKB or the 660m.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lazylewis on Sat, 24 June 2017, 02:48:36
Being a keyboard enthusiast is a cry for help
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SBJ on Sat, 24 June 2017, 02:55:37
Being a keyboard enthusiast is a cry for help
:-[
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lazylewis on Sat, 24 June 2017, 06:26:51
Only the lowest of the low need a number pad and a number row.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 24 June 2017, 07:19:18
Only the lowest of the low need a number pad and a number row.

Interesting: What is the reasoning?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Merranza on Sat, 24 June 2017, 07:31:10
MX Speeds are overrated and are crap compared to Reds.

*Ducks in a corner*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lazylewis on Sat, 24 June 2017, 07:35:49
MX Speeds are overrated and are crap compared to Reds.

*Ducks in a corner*
You don't have to duck in here. Stand tall.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Sat, 24 June 2017, 09:30:38
MX Speeds are overrated and are crap compared to Reds.

*Ducks in a corner*

I'll back you on that one, I'm honestly not a fan of the MX silents either.  They do SOUND great but they FEEL awful.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DKrause on Sat, 24 June 2017, 10:08:29
I'll play;

Linear switches suck.
Big-Ass enter keys for the win!
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
"Win" keys are worse than Caps-lock.

Finally, giving ANY "less used" keys premium space/size makes no sense.
Fail:
 |\ on a key bigger than 1x1
Right space larger than left space.   
Backspace keys bigger than tab keys.

</rant>
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: taylorswiftttttt on Sat, 24 June 2017, 11:49:15
removed
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kasakka on Sat, 24 June 2017, 12:25:23
I'll play;

Linear switches suck.
Big-Ass enter keys for the win!
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
"Win" keys are worse than Caps-lock.

Finally, giving ANY "less used" keys premium space/size makes no sense.
Fail:
 |\ on a key bigger than 1x1
Right space larger than left space.   
Backspace keys bigger than tab keys.

</rant>

I agree with everything but the Win key. There is absolutely no reason to have two of them though!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pab on Sat, 24 June 2017, 16:14:36
If your keyboard doesn't have a top-layer ~ key GTFO. I don't want to hold down three keys every time I want to go to my home directory, thank you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 24 June 2017, 18:51:01
....
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
....

Caps Lock has its place if you deal with alpha-numeric codes frequently where the letters are capitalized and mixed with numbers.

It's definitely in the wrong spot though -- maybe ditch the Scroll Lock or Pause/Break for it... now talk about useless keys!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 24 June 2017, 19:08:35
....
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
....

Caps Lock has its place if you deal with alpha-numeric codes frequently where the letters are capitalized and mixed with numbers.

It's definitely in the wrong spot though -- maybe ditch the Scroll Lock or Pause/Break for it... now talk about useless keys!


Those are reminiscent from the DOS era and text mode based operating systems. Linux is still using some of them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sat, 24 June 2017, 19:36:33
....
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
....

Caps Lock has its place if you deal with alpha-numeric codes frequently where the letters are capitalized and mixed with numbers... It's definitely in the wrong spot though -- maybe ditch the Scroll Lock or Pause/Break for it... now talk about useless keys!

But you can use those for other stuff. For example, most KVR switches use Scroll Lock by default because it's so seldom used for anything else.

That said, one of the first things I do when setting up a new PC is permanently deactivate Caps Lock. So I'm not posing as one of those "I'm such an accurate typist I never hit Caps Lock by mistake"-type peeps.

I'm glad we could discuss this. Now I feel like I can go on with the rest of my day filled with anal micro-issues.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Sat, 24 June 2017, 20:47:35
I'll play;

Linear switches suck.
Big-Ass enter keys for the win!
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
"Win" keys are worse than Caps-lock.

Finally, giving ANY "less used" keys premium space/size makes no sense.
Fail:
 |\ on a key bigger than 1x1
Right space larger than left space.   
Backspace keys bigger than tab keys.

</rant>

BAe Enter keys are ugly and a horrible waste of space.  In addition they make finding replacement caps a royal PITA all for an ugly enter key that looks like a drunken mistake.  I mean seriously who needs an enter that Big? Blind ass Mr Magoo?  What in the hell?

Tactility isn't required for those who can touch type, if anything at this point I find it to be a hindrance to pure speed.

Windows keys I use all the time to quick lock a computer along with other shortcuts. 

Caps Lock i'll agree with though up until this year to admit I rarely used shift and much like Sean Wrona one of the worlds fastest typists(Not that I am) I found it easier and quicker to type in a rhythm and use caps lock on and off rather than a twister like combo of holding shift with another key.  I have however become much used to the Shift key after having owned and daily used a HHKB for quite some time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tactile on Sun, 25 June 2017, 10:14:13
I think I'm probably the only person here who likes the HHKB as it comes out of the box. No dome swapping, no silencing rings, no MX sliders. I can just plop it down and use it.

...and another thing... Why is the HHKB considered the measure of keyboard geekiness? I see so many posts by people who might be talking about their keyboard collection and add something like, "...but no HHKB - yet." (Er... So what? your collection is not invalidated without a keyboard - any keyboard. Stop apologizing for not owning a HHKB.)  or "I'd like to score a HHKB but I'm not keen about the layout. I don't think I can get by without arrow keys" (Well, then, don't buy one!).

It's just a keyboard, man. It won't lower your taxes or anything. If you don't like the layout, don't buy one. And don't measure your worth by judging if you like the HHKB layout, or even if you own one.

...aahhh - finally got that off my chest.
 ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Sun, 25 June 2017, 11:57:08
I think I'm probably the only person here who likes the HHKB as it comes out of the box. No dome swapping, no silencing rings, no MX sliders. I can just plop it down and use it.


I'm with you on that. Tried lubed, dome-swapped and mx sliders and they all felt... wrong.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tactile on Sun, 25 June 2017, 12:02:11
I think I'm probably the only person here who likes the HHKB as it comes out of the box. No dome swapping, no silencing rings, no MX sliders. I can just plop it down and use it.


I'm with you on that. Tried lubed, dome-swapped and mx sliders and they all felt... wrong.

I even sold my Type S 'cause I prefer the regular one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 25 June 2017, 13:28:50
I think I'm probably the only person here who likes the HHKB as it comes out of the box. No dome swapping, no silencing rings, no MX sliders. I can just plop it down and use it.

...and another thing... Why is the HHKB considered the measure of keyboard geekiness? I see so many posts by people who might be talking about their keyboard collection and add something like, "...but no HHKB - yet." (Er... So what? your collection is not invalidated without a keyboard - any keyboard. Stop apologizing for not owning a HHKB.)  or "I'd like to score a HHKB but I'm not keen about the layout. I don't think I can get by without arrow keys" (Well, then, don't buy one!).

It's just a keyboard, man. It won't lower your taxes or anything. If you don't like the layout, don't buy one. And don't measure your worth by judging if you like the HHKB layout, or even if you own one.

...aahhh - finally got that off my chest.
 ;D

I, too, only like the HHKB (and all Topre boards) in stock form, except some keycaps look nice (such as the Realforce 10th Anniversary edition caps).

I think the reason you people talking about how they want the HHKB but worry about the layout is because they are attracted to the HHKB, it's looks, feel, compact/lightweight form... but aren't sure they can live with it.

It's like someone who wants to buy a 2-door car (or 2-seater even) because it looks awesome, but the impracticality could pose a problem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sun, 25 June 2017, 15:27:36
....
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
....

Caps Lock has its place if you deal with alpha-numeric codes frequently where the letters are capitalized and mixed with numbers.
And if your text editor sucks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 26 June 2017, 05:07:09
Caps Lock has its place if you deal with alpha-numeric codes frequently where the letters are capitalized and mixed with numbers.

It's definitely in the wrong spot though -- maybe ditch the Scroll Lock or Pause/Break for it... now talk about useless keys!

Also if you deal with C and macros and have to write in capital snake case all the time.

....
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
....

Caps Lock has its place if you deal with alpha-numeric codes frequently where the letters are capitalized and mixed with numbers.

It's definitely in the wrong spot though -- maybe ditch the Scroll Lock or Pause/Break for it... now talk about useless keys!


Those are reminiscent from the DOS era and text mode based operating systems. Linux is still using some of them.

Actually, Excel is still supporting ScrollLock from what I know.

Big-Ass enter keys for the win!
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
"Win" keys are worse than Caps-lock.

Hypocrisy. BA Enter can just as well be split into two keys, in theory even three. I think it's the stupidest shape a key on a keyboard has ever had.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _haru on Mon, 26 June 2017, 07:31:15
ANSI board plus ISO Enter is freaking awesome. I don't end up accidentally pressing backslash instead of Enter with that layout as often as I do with pure ANSI :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 26 June 2017, 07:33:53
ANSI board plus ISO Enter is freaking awesome. I don't end up accidentally pressing backslash instead of Enter with that layout as often as I do with pure ANSI :p


Indeed: It is not an opinion, it is a fact.  :p


(http://i.imgur.com/p60cEcZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Mon, 26 June 2017, 08:24:25
I think I'm probably the only person here who likes the HHKB as it comes out of the box. No dome swapping, no silencing rings, no MX sliders. I can just plop it down and use it.

...and another thing... Why is the HHKB considered the measure of keyboard geekiness? I see so many posts by people who might be talking about their keyboard collection and add something like, "...but no HHKB - yet." (Er... So what? your collection is not invalidated without a keyboard - any keyboard. Stop apologizing for not owning a HHKB.)  or "I'd like to score a HHKB but I'm not keen about the layout. I don't think I can get by without arrow keys" (Well, then, don't buy one!).

It's just a keyboard, man. It won't lower your taxes or anything. If you don't like the layout, don't buy one. And don't measure your worth by judging if you like the HHKB layout, or even if you own one.

...aahhh - finally got that off my chest.
 ;D

It's because there is an extremely outspoken minority of HHKB lovers that shout from the highest mountaintops about how the HHKB is the be-all and end-all of keyboards. They have everybody that doesn't have one convinced that they need one.

I enjoy my HHKB and use it every day at work, but I prefer my custom boards that I have assembled myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _haru on Mon, 26 June 2017, 08:41:45
Indeed: It is not an opinion, it is a fact.  :p

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 26 June 2017, 11:18:18
ANSI board plus ISO Enter is freaking awesome. I don't end up accidentally pressing backslash instead of Enter with that layout as often as I do with pure ANSI :P

I actually transitioned to ANSI from ISO for the opposite reason. I wanted backspace easier to reach, and with ANSI I can put it one row lower than it is on ISO. Also it looks so much more symmetrical.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 26 June 2017, 12:59:57
I think I'm probably the only person here who likes the HHKB as it comes out of the box. No dome swapping, no silencing rings, no MX sliders. I can just plop it down and use it.

...and another thing... Why is the HHKB considered the measure of keyboard geekiness? I see so many posts by people who might be talking about their keyboard collection and add something like, "...but no HHKB - yet." (Er... So what? your collection is not invalidated without a keyboard - any keyboard. Stop apologizing for not owning a HHKB.)  or "I'd like to score a HHKB but I'm not keen about the layout. I don't think I can get by without arrow keys" (Well, then, don't buy one!).

It's just a keyboard, man. It won't lower your taxes or anything. If you don't like the layout, don't buy one. And don't measure your worth by judging if you like the HHKB layout, or even if you own one.

...aahhh - finally got that off my chest.
 ;D

It's because there is an extremely outspoken minority of HHKB lovers that shout from the highest mountaintops about how the HHKB is the be-all and end-all of keyboards. They have everybody that doesn't have one convinced that they need one.

I enjoy my HHKB and use it every day at work, but I prefer my custom boards that I have assembled myself.

Having used the HHKB layout before the HHKB existed, I'm content to leave the keyboard to others.  To small for me and the layout is meh as a UNIX admin.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DKrause on Mon, 26 June 2017, 19:44:29
Big-Ass enter keys for the win!
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
"Win" keys are worse than Caps-lock.

Hypocrisy. BA Enter can just as well be split into two keys, in theory even three. I think it's the stupidest shape a key on a keyboard has ever had.

The biggest problem with the small enter keys, is all that space they took back, they gave to a BA \| key... Not really an improvement, IMHO.

Keycap manufacturers still manage to make tall ISO enter keys, because tall ISO enter keys are used on a lot of keyboards. Had BA enter keys remained popular, I'm sure we'd have keycaps that size too.

You don't like BAe cause it wastes space, but you'll keep the huge space wasting Caps lock? A function that could easily be replaced/toggled by FN+Shift? And now we have to deal with a BA \| too? That's a true waste of space, so shrinking the enter key really didn't solve any problems.

And "win" keys, while actually functional, should have never been allow to be "branded", by an organization that changes the key's logo every couple years. Why not just have it labeled "OS".

I just don't see the point of shrinking the enter key, a key used an awful lot, just so there's room for a giant backspace, giant right shift, giant \| key, and free MS adverts.

Might be a good time to experiment with an improved 60% layout. Without the justification that certain keys are the size they are because some manufacture make a mistake 20 years ago, and that's the size the key caps are now.  ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Tue, 27 June 2017, 09:57:05
Big-Ass enter keys for the win!
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
"Win" keys are worse than Caps-lock.

Hypocrisy. BA Enter can just as well be split into two keys, in theory even three. I think it's the stupidest shape a key on a keyboard has ever had.

The biggest problem with the small enter keys, is all that space they took back, they gave to a BA \| key... Not really an improvement, IMHO.

Keycap manufacturers still manage to make tall ISO enter keys, because tall ISO enter keys are used on a lot of keyboards. Had BA enter keys remained popular, I'm sure we'd have keycaps that size too.

You don't like BAe cause it wastes space, but you'll keep the huge space wasting Caps lock? A function that could easily be replaced/toggled by FN+Shift? And now we have to deal with a BA \| too? That's a true waste of space, so shrinking the enter key really didn't solve any problems.

And "win" keys, while actually functional, should have never been allow to be "branded", by an organization that changes the key's logo every couple years. Why not just have it labeled "OS".

I just don't see the point of shrinking the enter key, a key used an awful lot, just so there's room for a giant backspace, giant right shift, giant \| key, and free MS adverts.

Might be a good time to experiment with an improved 60% layout. Without the justification that certain keys are the size they are because some manufacture make a mistake 20 years ago, and that's the size the key caps are now.  ;D

I agree that \ above enter is ****ing stupid and caps lock should die in a fire in its current form, that's why I have backspace above enter and Ctrl where Caps is on my keyboard. I never said that I would keep caps lock, just that is was contradictory to call Caps and Super space-wasting while also declaring BA Enter to be superior to alternatives.

But I was assuming we were already talking about custom layouts now, as barely any keyboards with BA Enter are produced by now. And if I build a custom board, I would never ever choose to use BA Enter over having ANSI Enter and Backspace in the exact same amount of space, and I don't see why anyone else would either, except for the novelty maybe. I definitely agree, build a DIY board (doesn't even need to be 60%) and program it to your hearts content. You can undo all the stupid mistakes that were made in the last few decades.

ISO enter is a whole different beast. ANSI compared to ISO has the exact same number of keys (2) in that small region, and I would argue that in terms of area to importance ratio, ISO is actually better because it makes \ a 1u key and gives Enter a bigger area.

Personally I prefer to call it Super to OS and Win, but the matter of fact is that everybody knows what Win-key means, so it's just easier for communication. I dislike that its on all the boards now as well, but it makes sense for normal users. Microsoft won't stop calling it the Windows key in their OS, and laptop/keyboard manufacturers don't want to deal with the flood of confused users that are searching for that key on their board because it has a different icon.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kmba on Tue, 27 June 2017, 10:14:13
That's why hhkb layout is so nice. Caps moved to a function layer, big ass \ replaced with an appropriate sized backspace/delete, split traditional backspace, non-branded os key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Tue, 27 June 2017, 10:16:33
ISO enter is a whole different beast. ANSI compared to ISO has the exact same number of keys (2) in that small region, and I would argue that in terms of area to importance ratio, ISO is actually better because it makes \ a 1u key and gives Enter a bigger area.

We can agree that Enter is, by far, the more commonly used key. However, I would argue that while the ISO layout does afford more area for the Enter key, it does so in a way that requires one to reach further for it and places the less-used "\" key closer to the home row. Same goes for the left shift, placing a less useful key closer to the home row and making me reach further for the shift. In my opinion, ANSI is the more efficient layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 27 June 2017, 11:18:21
ISO enter is a whole different beast. ANSI compared to ISO has the exact same number of keys (2) in that small region, and I would argue that in terms of area to importance ratio, ISO is actually better because it makes \ a 1u key and gives Enter a bigger area.

We can agree that Enter is, by far, the more commonly used key. However, I would argue that while the ISO layout does afford more area for the Enter key, it does so in a way that requires one to reach further for it and places the less-used "\" key closer to the home row. Same goes for the left shift, placing a less useful key closer to the home row and making me reach further for the shift. In my opinion, ANSI is the more efficient layout.


I I use ANSI-Unix (Ansix) style and ANSI-ISO flavored (Anso) and both has its drawbacks; at the same time, I like both of them. Anso makes easier to type my Latex documents and doing my R-programming tasks; while, Ansix is better for general computing tasks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _haru on Tue, 27 June 2017, 18:44:44
Big-Ass enter keys for the win!
Caps-lock keys are pointless. (And occupy premium keyboard location)
"Win" keys are worse than Caps-lock.

Hypocrisy. BA Enter can just as well be split into two keys, in theory even three. I think it's the stupidest shape a key on a keyboard has ever had.

I don't mind BA Enter either. 1u backspace is plenty fine for me. As long as I don't accidentally press backslash, I'm fine :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Wed, 28 June 2017, 10:09:05
ISO enter is a whole different beast. ANSI compared to ISO has the exact same number of keys (2) in that small region, and I would argue that in terms of area to importance ratio, ISO is actually better because it makes \ a 1u key and gives Enter a bigger area.

We can agree that Enter is, by far, the more commonly used key. However, I would argue that while the ISO layout does afford more area for the Enter key, it does so in a way that requires one to reach further for it and places the less-used "\" key closer to the home row. Same goes for the left shift, placing a less useful key closer to the home row and making me reach further for the shift. In my opinion, ANSI is the more efficient layout.

That is a good point. And on Enter I'd agree, but I have never found the short ISO shift to be a problem as it is exactly the same distance from my left pinky as right shift is from my right pinky.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 28 June 2017, 12:24:52
ISO enter is a whole different beast. ANSI compared to ISO has the exact same number of keys (2) in that small region, and I would argue that in terms of area to importance ratio, ISO is actually better because it makes \ a 1u key and gives Enter a bigger area.

We can agree that Enter is, by far, the more commonly used key. However, I would argue that while the ISO layout does afford more area for the Enter key, it does so in a way that requires one to reach further for it and places the less-used "\" key closer to the home row. Same goes for the left shift, placing a less useful key closer to the home row and making me reach further for the shift. In my opinion, ANSI is the more efficient layout.

That is a good point. And on Enter I'd agree, but I have never found the short ISO shift to be a problem as it is exactly the same distance from my left pinky as right shift is from my right pinky.

The left shift position might depend on the individual and typing style.  For me, a shorter left shift key isn't a problem as I hit the left shift key on the outer half of the key.  Cutting a bit of the inside out doesn't really impact me.  For someone that might hit the left Shift key further in, it could be a problem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Darksair on Fri, 30 June 2017, 17:53:18
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 30 June 2017, 18:08:12
I don’t understand how/why people can tolerate HHKB’s lack of ctrl/caps lock.
HHKB has Control above left Shift. That spot isn't great (emacs pinkie), but still better than the corner on mainstream keyboards. I'd prefer a thumb key, though.

I'm mildly annoyed by the lack of right Control, however.

But Caps lock? I haven't used that in seven years. Why? I don't need a key for that; when I need the function (which is extremely rare), I can just select the region and press C-x C-u, boom, it's all upper case. Heck, if I really wanted the Caps lock function even in dumber apps, I could enable it in software—simply toggle one checkbox ("both Shift keys together toggle Caps lock") in System settings.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Darksair on Fri, 30 June 2017, 18:39:47
I don’t understand how/why people can tolerate HHKB’s lack of ctrl/caps lock.
HHKB has Control above left Shift. That spot isn't great (emacs pinkie), but still better than the corner on mainstream keyboards. I'd prefer a thumb key, though.

I'm mildly annoyed by the lack of right Control, however.

But Caps lock? I haven't used that in seven years. Why? I don't need a key for that; when I need the function (which is extremely rare), I can just select the region and press C-x C-u, boom, it's all upper case. Heck, if I really wanted the Caps lock function even in dumber apps, I could enable it in software—simply toggle one checkbox ("both Shift keys together toggle Caps lock") in System settings.

Yea… I can understand switching caps lock and left ctrl, but I do regularly use caps lock for C++ constants/macro (I don’t like that either, but common convention… And selecting + uppercase-region is too slow… ) and shouting at people.  The both shift keys thing could work though.

And strangely I never had any problem using ctrl on the bottom-left corner, while a lot of Emacs users have reported illness on the pinky…
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 30 June 2017, 18:44:11
  • “Artisan” keys are mostly ugly, especialy those with a skull/daemon/whatever.

True!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 30 June 2017, 18:56:01
Yea… I can understand switching caps lock and left ctrl, but I do regularly use caps lock for C++ constants/macro (I don’t like that either, but common convention… And selecting + uppercase-region is too slow… ) and shouting at people.  The both shift keys thing could work though.
I guess it'd be straightforward to create a macro for that. I haven't felt such need, though.

IIRC some plugin/IDE can even automatically recognize constants and capitalize their name.

And strangely I never had any problem using ctrl on the bottom-left corner, while a lot of Emacs users have reported illness on the pinky…
Overuse…
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Fri, 30 June 2017, 19:27:29
  • The best mechanical switch is MX red.
  • The best switch is the membrane on Razer keyboards.
  • I don’t understand how/why people can tolerate HHKB’s lack of ctrl/caps lock.
  • “Artisan” keys are mostly ugly, especialy those with a skull/daemon/whatever.

No control key? No caps lock? WTHeck? Oh, heck no. I got the customization bug out of me back in the Mac OS 8 days. Stock, nice.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 30 June 2017, 19:43:01
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 30 June 2017, 23:54:29
Caps lock comes in handy in various Reddit sports communities.  In /r/hockey, for example, the Friday Trash Talk Discussion thread is always in all caps.  Overtime is in all caps.  Playoff double overtime is bold caps.  3x overtime is italic bold caps.  Other subs do similar things as well.

As for Caps vs Ctrl locations, I find the typical ANSI keyboard spot for Ctrl more comfortable for my left pinky than in the Caps Lock location. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 01 July 2017, 05:55:39
Caps lock comes in handy in various Reddit sports communities.  In /r/hockey, for example, the Friday Trash Talk Discussion thread is always in all caps.  Overtime is in all caps.  Playoff double overtime is bold caps.  3x overtime is italic bold caps.  Other subs do similar things as well.
Exactly. You don't have a key (incl. a dedicated scan code in the keyboard protocol) for bold or italic, do you?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 03 July 2017, 10:45:42
Caps lock comes in handy in various Reddit sports communities.  In /r/hockey, for example, the Friday Trash Talk Discussion thread is always in all caps.  Overtime is in all caps.  Playoff double overtime is bold caps.  3x overtime is italic bold caps.  Other subs do similar things as well.
Exactly. You don't have a key (incl. a dedicated scan code in the keyboard protocol) for bold or italic, do you?

Well no, because that is formatting and bold/italic are triggered in reddit markup by surrounding a block of text with *. I think all of the reasons why capslock is useful are valid, but pressing both shifts or Fn+Shift to activate it seems perfectly fine to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 03 July 2017, 11:26:29
Caps lock comes in handy in various Reddit sports communities.  In /r/hockey, for example, the Friday Trash Talk Discussion thread is always in all caps.  Overtime is in all caps.  Playoff double overtime is bold caps.  3x overtime is italic bold caps.  Other subs do similar things as well.
Exactly. You don't have a key (incl. a dedicated scan code in the keyboard protocol) for bold or italic, do you?

Well no, because that is formatting and bold/italic are triggered in reddit markup by surrounding a block of text with *. I think all of the reasons why capslock is useful are valid, but pressing both shifts or Fn+Shift to activate it seems perfectly fine to me.

On Reddit, I just use Ctrl-B for bold and Ctrl-I for italics.  Not sure if that's RES-specific or not as I've not used Reddit without RES in years.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 03 July 2017, 12:46:27
bold or italic
that is formatting
So is capitalization/case style.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 03 July 2017, 17:54:08
bold or italic
that is formatting
So is capitalization/case style.

Sorry, what I meant was font style. Caps or not caps use different letters/bytes, but fot bold/italic you change the display of the font itself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 03 July 2017, 18:19:31
italic != oblique type

The glyphs are different. The typeface has to support italic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ___q on Mon, 03 July 2017, 18:24:57
ABS keycaps getting shiny is a feature, and they get more pleasant to use as they get worn-in and smooth.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Mon, 03 July 2017, 19:26:40
ABS keycaps getting shiny is a feature, and they get more pleasant to use as they get worn-in and smooth.

Totally agree with this but it also goes for PBT

I have a set of worn OG dyesubs that feel amazing
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Tue, 04 July 2017, 08:11:47
italic != oblique type

The glyphs are different. The typeface has to support italic.

Ah interesting, didn't know about oblique. Still, does that in any way invalidate my argument?

ABS keycaps getting shiny is a feature, and they get more pleasant to use as they get worn-in and smooth.

Nopenopenopenopenope. I'm all the way in the other direction. SP SA feels absolutely horrible because of the shiny finish. Never in my life will I get an SP SA set, no matter how awesome they look. I've heard maxkeys has a little rougher surface finish on their SA clone, so that's more likely an option for me.
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheddarbek on Tue, 04 July 2017, 12:02:31
SP PBT DSA sets are awful.

The texture is far too rough, and I can’t stand to type on them for more than a few minutes before I get uncomfortable. The blank DSAs aren’t so bad, but the printed sets (like Granite) are unusable to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 04 July 2017, 14:04:05
italic != oblique type

The glyphs are different. The typeface has to support italic.

Ah interesting, didn't know about oblique. Still, does that in any way invalidate my argument?
What argument? This?
Quote
that is formatting and bold/italic are triggered in reddit markup by surrounding a block of text with *
That's completely arbitrary.

Let's backtrack. What's the deal here? The Caps lock key. Caps lock is a distinct function, not to be confused with Shift lock, which is a full layer toggle, whereas Caps lock typically works only for letters, i.e., typing in uppercase. That's formatting.

Any visually distinct symbol may carry specific semantics in a given context—math is a classic example—but typically it doesn't and the choice of typeface for emphasis is arbitrary. In the time of universal computers, separation of semantics and presentation is a thing, and it's a good thing, because it enables readers to use whatever output format they want or need (including text to speech synthesis instead of a screen/printer).

Going back to the Reddit example, the Reddit's editor—just like many other Markdown (or other markup) implementations—translates those underscores/asterisks into <em> (emphasis) or <strong> tags, i.e., not italic/bold as Niomosy probably believes. It's up to the browser/reader to style them; that's usually italic or bold typeface, but it doesn't have to be that way. The stylesheet may assign different colors or other typeface to them. And going back to uppercase once again, there's the "text-transform" CSS property for that.

Typing in uppercase, however, mixes source text with presentation.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Tue, 04 July 2017, 14:34:24
My finger tips can feel the difference between gloss/semigloss and matte finishes, but my brain doesn't care. If you are keenly distracted by something as inconsequential as the surface material of your keycaps, then you might need to up the dosage on your OCD medication.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Tue, 04 July 2017, 14:45:46
Let's backtrack. What's the deal here? The Caps lock key. Caps lock is a distinct function, not to be confused with Shift lock, which is a full layer toggle, whereas Caps lock typically works only for letters, i.e., typing in uppercase. That's formatting.

Any visually distinct symbol may carry specific semantics in a given context—math is a classic example—but typically it doesn't and the choice of typeface for emphasis is arbitrary. In the time of universal computers, separation of semantics and presentation is a thing, and it's a good thing, because it enables readers to use whatever output format they want or need (including text to speech synthesis instead of a screen/printer).

Going back to the Reddit example, the Reddit's editor—just like many other Markdown (or other markup) implementations—translates those underscores/asterisks into <em> (emphasis) or <strong> tags, i.e., not italic/bold as Niomosy probably believes. It's up to the browser/reader to style them; that's usually italic or bold typeface, but it doesn't have to be that way. The stylesheet may assign different colors or other typeface to them. And going back to uppercase once again, there's the "text-transform" CSS property for that.

Typing in uppercase, however, mixes source text with presentation.

You're right on all of those things, but your last statement is the only part of my position I wanted to defend anyway.

bold or italic
that is formatting
So is capitalization/case style.

Sorry, what I meant was font style. Caps or not caps use different letters/bytes, but fot bold/italic you change the display of the font itself.

As you say, using caps lock changes the source text, the actual data that is stored, unrelated to any styling. And for any sort of content on websites I think we can both agree that Caps Lock is utterly useless. I also agree that especially in the context of websites, mixing source text and presentation is bad form. So in the example that really seemed to spark our discussion

Caps lock comes in handy in various Reddit sports communities.  In /r/hockey, for example, the Friday Trash Talk Discussion thread is always in all caps.  Overtime is in all caps.  Playoff double overtime is bold caps.  3x overtime is italic bold caps.  Other subs do similar things as well.

we can agree that this would be better solved by using CSS to display all text as caps, no matter if it is actually being typed in caps or not.

But, as we know, there are other contexts where only little styling is applied to the text, one of which is programming, and I think that was our main splitting point: Whether Caps Lock is actually a useful key. And I argue that in these cases, it can indeed be useful if your style guideline demand upper case snake case in some instances.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 04 July 2017, 17:01:30
The point is that Caps lock isn't systemic. If it still were Shift lock, the point would be moot.

The current USB HID protocol doesn't care about semantics, those things are solved on the software side. Which includes behavior of the key in question as Caps lock under most circumstances.

Programming and other formal languages have utilized symbols outside ASCII for a long time. APL comes to mind. Or currently Haskell (unicode syntactic sugar). Extra symbols are commonly input through chords with AltGraph, which is a layer-accessing modifier. That actually leads to another question: how will AltGraph behave with Caps lock active, if I want to input, say, letters of the Greek alphabet? It'd be simple with Shift lock.

I wouldn't be opposed to having the input method implemented in the keyboard, and capable of producing Unicode among other things. If it were configurable for future-proofing. …something something Symbolics Lisp machine…

But that's not the current reality. The current reality is that we have a key in a prominent position utilized, well, as Caps lock by nearly all software by default.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 05 July 2017, 01:56:37
This caps lock discussion seems much ado about nothing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 05 July 2017, 02:30:30
99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doluded on Wed, 05 July 2017, 03:16:31
99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)
I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cultofjosh on Wed, 05 July 2017, 09:06:04
Hah, love this thread. Will have to read it all eventually. This is all on repeat but

1) Hate linear switches
2) Hate DSA
3) HATE artisan keycaps. Like, really really hate. There was a lucky cat one I wanted once, but the chance of it ever being put on one of my keyboards is about equal to the chance that I'd use a mousepad made out of fish tank gravel.
4) Hate full size keyboards - 60%s go perfect with my kensington slimblade at work, and TKLs work well enough with my small to travel sized mice at home. I like to have everything in as small a space as possible. I wouldn't mind the numpad if it was on the left, but I'd still never use it so what's the point.
5) I like the idea of 75% keyboards but have never seen one I liked.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Auk on Wed, 05 July 2017, 09:24:02
5) I like the idea of 75% keyboards but have never seen one I liked.

In case you've missed it, this one (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90307.0) shows a lot of promise. I really want flat profile and winkeyless myself, but the slender divides and blockers on this design can just take the edge off the typical 75% clutter.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Wed, 05 July 2017, 09:29:19
The point is that Caps lock isn't systemic. If it still were Shift lock, the point would be moot.

Holy **** I just tried it on a coworkers PC, I was not aware at all. Is this just a Linux thing or is Windows behaving the same way now? It seems I haven't touched that key in years and actually I don't own a keyboard that has it anymroe :D

This caps lock discussion seems much ado about nothing.

As is anything else in this thread, so I might as well contribute.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Wed, 05 July 2017, 10:22:31
A lot of the new cool mechanical keyboards out there will break in 5 years or less. Quality sucks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Wed, 05 July 2017, 10:26:29
A lot of the new cool mechanical keyboards out there will break in 5 years or less. Quality sucks.

A lot of the new "cool" Mechanical boards out there are "Gamer" focused and more concerned with cool lights and crap than actual quality so I agree.  This is why I stick to the old reliable enthusiast brands for the most part, My Leopold will likely be my daily driver for years and years to come.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 05 July 2017, 11:26:24
A lot of the new cool mechanical keyboards out there will break in 5 years or less. Quality sucks.

A lot of the new "cool" Mechanical boards out there are "Gamer" focused and more concerned with cool lights and crap than actual quality so I agree.  This is why I stick to the old reliable enthusiast brands for the most part, My Leopold will likely be my daily driver for years and years to come.


There is nothing wrong with LEDs and bright colors, the actual problem is them taking over on functionality and reliability.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 05 July 2017, 12:10:23
Hah, love this thread. Will have to read it all eventually. This is all on repeat but

1) Hate linear switches
2) Hate DSA
3) HATE artisan keycaps. Like, really really hate. There was a lucky cat one I wanted once, but the chance of it ever being put on one of my keyboards is about equal to the chance that I'd use a mousepad made out of fish tank gravel.
4) Hate full size keyboards - 60%s go perfect with my kensington slimblade at work, and TKLs work well enough with my small to travel sized mice at home. I like to have everything in as small a space as possible. I wouldn't mind the numpad if it was on the left, but I'd still never use it so what's the point.
5) I like the idea of 75% keyboards but have never seen one I liked.

We are practically mirror images of each other.

1. I like linear switches, but I prefer good tactile switches like Topre/TMX or Kaihua Coppers.
2. I like DSA, but I prefer SA/MT3. (On the other hand, I loathe all cylindricals.)
3. I don't hate artisans, but I do feel that 99.9% of them look like stupid little toys. (I guess they're okay for little kids?) Having said that, I do have an idea for an artisan keycap that actually has a strong relationship to typing/keyboards rather than looking like something you'd find at the bottom of a Crackerjack box.
4. I only use full-size boards with desktop PCs, but I prefer a good 60% with my iPad. Everything else, including TKLs, are a waste of good plastic and metal AFAIC.
5. The only 75% board I find even remotely useful is the Plum Nano 75, and only because it is a 60% with an F-row added to the top. It isn't really any wider than a regular 60%, which is critical since being any wider would create size disparity issues with the iPad that I can't abide.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 05 July 2017, 13:02:26
99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)
I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Wed, 05 July 2017, 13:12:07
A lot of the new cool mechanical keyboards out there will break in 5 years or less. Quality sucks.

A lot of the new "cool" Mechanical boards out there are "Gamer" focused and more concerned with cool lights and crap than actual quality so I agree.  This is why I stick to the old reliable enthusiast brands for the most part, My Leopold will likely be my daily driver for years and years to come.



There is nothing wrong with LEDs and bright colors, the actual problem is them taking over on functionality and reliability.


Asides from the fact several manufacturers are focusing too much on that over quality, honestly I think much of it is incredibly tacky and I would be embarrassed to have most of these "Gamer" styled keyboards on my desk.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Wed, 05 July 2017, 14:21:53
99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)
I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.

Sure, if you're going poor buying keyboards. But if it's a drop in the bucket and brings you joy, why not?

The same can be said of anything in life. It's up to each person to determine what brings them joy and is worth time/money in life.  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Wed, 05 July 2017, 14:24:25
No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.

So, the more keyboards we have, the emptier we are on the inside?

GULP

1,2,3,4,5...[hey, do dupes count?], 6,7...

Hey, my Model F XT will probably fail on me one of these days...so...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 05 July 2017, 18:14:06
So, the more Model M/F-style keyboards we have, the emptier we are on the inside.

There, fixed that for you...  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 05 July 2017, 18:31:38
A lot of the new cool mechanical keyboards out there will break in 5 years or less. Quality sucks.

A lot of the new "cool" Mechanical boards out there are "Gamer" focused and more concerned with cool lights and crap than actual quality so I agree.  This is why I stick to the old reliable enthusiast brands for the most part, My Leopold will likely be my daily driver for years and years to come.



There is nothing wrong with LEDs and bright colors, the actual problem is them taking over on functionality and reliability.


Asides from the fact several manufacturers are focusing too much on that over quality, honestly I think much of it is incredibly tacky and I would be embarrassed to have most of these "Gamer" styled keyboards on my desk.


I am not into it, either; but, I respect the people who do. I concur that features like back lighting are just a waste of resources.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 05 July 2017, 18:34:24


Sure, if you're going poor buying keyboards. But if it's a drop in the bucket and brings you joy, why not?

The same can be said of anything in life. It's up to each person to determine what brings them joy and is worth time/money in life.  :cool:


That is dangerous, and limited.


We are our own worst enemy, because of how little information and scope each individual human can process.


I'd say Trusting oneself is laying too much stock in a very limited animal.




My proposal is a super computer to replace human leadership..   But hey..  skynet right ?  sigh..............
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doluded on Wed, 05 July 2017, 21:04:41
99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)
I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.
I'm okay with that though. My life has been aimless since I was born and I haven't found anything else that has entertained me for this long so I'm okay with trading my money or my time for experiences with people and fun.

You also don't benefit from telling people what they do and do benefit from do you? I get what you're saying but it's not so simple as me throwing my life away and sinking into a put of pointlessness because life has been pointless.

Keyboard benefit me by giving me experiences in my opinion.

Whatever though
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: OneNightFriend on Wed, 05 July 2017, 21:07:38
99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)
I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.
I'm okay with that though. My life has been aimless since I was born and I haven't found anything else that has entertained me for this long so I'm okay with trading my money or my time for experiences with people and fun.

You also don't benefit from telling people what they do and do benefit from do you? I get what you're saying but it's not so simple as me throwing my life away and sinking into a put of pointlessness because life has been pointless.

Keyboard benefit me by giving me experiences in my opinion.

Whatever though
Frankly this is one of the most social hobbies I've adopted in a long time. It's not just a hobby; it is a community!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doluded on Wed, 05 July 2017, 21:09:41
99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)
I honestly don't think a lot of people do it for some sort of benefit. At least I don't. I do it for the looks and feel. Is that a benefit?

No,  your life has become aimless, and you're looking for meaning/ purpose by ways of shopping..  Ultimately you trade your LIFE for the money, and you throw that money away on objects which do nothing to improve your circumstance.


/ Not kidding

/ But, It's not like I know what you aught to be doing..

/ I'm just pointing out that this is probably what's happening

/ You gotta figure out how to fix it

/ It's probably not going to happen through buying yet another keyboard though.

/ This much is certain.

/ Happy life.
I'm okay with that though. My life has been aimless since I was born and I haven't found anything else that has entertained me for this long so I'm okay with trading my money or my time for experiences with people and fun.

You also don't benefit from telling people what they do and do benefit from do you? I get what you're saying but it's not so simple as me throwing my life away and sinking into a put of pointlessness because life has been pointless.

Keyboard benefit me by giving me experiences in my opinion.

Whatever though
Frankly this is one of the most social hobbies I've adopted in a long time. It's not just a hobby; it is a community!
Exactly. I enjoy interacting with all these people and sure, this hobby might hurt the wallet at times and leave me frustrated, but I do think the point is not only the items found in this hobby but the people too. So keyboards have benefited me and a bunch of other people I'd say.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Wed, 05 July 2017, 22:07:31
Hah, love this thread. Will have to read it all eventually. This is all on repeat but

1) Hate linear switches
2) Hate DSA
3) HATE artisan keycaps. Like, really really hate. There was a lucky cat one I wanted once, but the chance of it ever being put on one of my keyboards is about equal to the chance that I'd use a mousepad made out of fish tank gravel.
4) Hate full size keyboards - 60%s go perfect with my kensington slimblade at work, and TKLs work well enough with my small to travel sized mice at home. I like to have everything in as small a space as possible. I wouldn't mind the numpad if it was on the left, but I'd still never use it so what's the point.
5) I like the idea of 75% keyboards but have never seen one I liked.

1) Linears are my favorite, but I like (not necessarily love) all other switches too, aside from clicky Cherry MX.
2) DSA seems pretty underwhelming, but I really enjoy spherical profiles that are sourced from vintage keyboards for Alps. I do not hate cylindrical caps, though. I also appreciate them.  I'm just fascinated by the OG sculpted sphericals available for Alps. I don't like SA too much, but I'm mildly interested in Topre Hi Pro.
3) Not my thing. I don't hate the caps, just some of the mentality that crops up around them.
4) I enjoy full size boards. I like 60%. I like TKLs. I'm not a big fan of 65%, I don't care for 1800 aesthetically, and...
5) ...75% is very nice for getting TKL functionality out of a smaller footprint, but it looks like a brick.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Wed, 05 July 2017, 22:12:52


Sure, if you're going poor buying keyboards. But if it's a drop in the bucket and brings you joy, why not?

The same can be said of anything in life. It's up to each person to determine what brings them joy and is worth time/money in life.  :cool:


That is dangerous, and limited.


We are our own worst enemy, because of how little information and scope each individual human can process.


I'd say Trusting oneself is laying too much stock in a very limited animal.




My proposal is a super computer to replace human leadership..   But hey..  skynet right ?  sigh..............

Perhaps... but people generally wouldn't like the decisions that a logical super computer would lead with, especially in these days of feelings-first.  :p

Though I'm quite certain that a super computer would recommend Topre.  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 06 July 2017, 01:49:19
9 out of 10 keyboard enthusiast agree that out of 10 people 1 person will always disagree with the other 9.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 06 July 2017, 02:24:03

I'm okay with that though. My life has been aimless since I was born and I haven't found anything else that has entertained me for this long so I'm okay with trading my money or my time for experiences with people and fun.

You also don't benefit from telling people what they do and do benefit from do you? I get what you're saying but it's not so simple as me throwing my life away and sinking into a put of pointlessness because life has been pointless.

Keyboard benefit me by giving me experiences in my opinion.

Whatever though
Frankly this is one of the most social hobbies I've adopted in a long time. It's not just a hobby; it is a community!
Exactly. I enjoy interacting with all these people and sure, this hobby might hurt the wallet at times and leave me frustrated, but I do think the point is not only the items found in this hobby but the people too. So keyboards have benefited me and a bunch of other people I'd say.

I glad you guys are able to abate the sinking feeling of ones life with keyboard and community.

But is that not using the presence of a communal delusion to justify it being the norm ?


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 06 July 2017, 02:24:59
9 out of 10 keyboard enthusiast agree that out of 10 people 1 person will always disagree with the other 9.

Let's get Digi in here with his math...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 06 July 2017, 02:29:33

Perhaps... but people generally wouldn't like the decisions that a logical super computer would lead with, especially in these days of feelings-first.  :p

Though I'm quite certain that a super computer would recommend Topre.  :cool:



You know,  that's something a person in power might say..


But we've never had a robot president,   so how do you know it wouldn't work..



I'd follow a AI leader,  because I know that it is objective.


Cold objectivity is the basis for science,  and it is only by following that very logical trend which continues our growth.


At every turn,  Humans continue to undermine science by distorting it to pursue basic urges..

Most humans want to be rich , with no clear goal for the money they earn.

Then some actually get rich, some powerful,  but proceed to direct their subject's efforts toward endeavors which benefit no one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Thu, 06 July 2017, 12:26:12
Hey guys, please stop feeding the troll.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 06 July 2017, 14:10:16
Hey guys, please stop feeding the troll.

nom nom nom nom nom...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Thu, 06 July 2017, 14:16:55

Perhaps... but people generally wouldn't like the decisions that a logical super computer would lead with, especially in these days of feelings-first.  :p

Though I'm quite certain that a super computer would recommend Topre.  :cool:



You know,  that's something a person in power might say..


But we've never had a robot president,   so how do you know it wouldn't work..



I'd follow a AI leader,  because I know that it is objective.


Cold objectivity is the basis for science,  and it is only by following that very logical trend which continues our growth.


At every turn,  Humans continue to undermine science by distorting it to pursue basic urges..

Most humans want to be rich , with no clear goal for the money they earn.

Then some actually get rich, some powerful,  but proceed to direct their subject's efforts toward endeavors which benefit no one.

"Cold objectivity" sounds all good and well... but it will certainly go against human experiences (for better or for worse).

If President SuperComputer outright banned the Ergodox because it's inferior, you might well say that you still prefer it.

Of course, President SuperComputer would then know that you are a hindrance to progress and have you and all the Ergodoxes shipped out to sea.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 06 July 2017, 15:02:53


"Cold objectivity" sounds all good and well... but it will certainly go against human experiences (for better or for worse).

If President SuperComputer outright banned the Ergodox because it's inferior, you might well say that you still prefer it.

Of course, President SuperComputer would then know that you are a hindrance to progress and have you and all the Ergodoxes shipped out to sea.  :p


This is the problem with discussions of this type, because you've got very different tolerances for what constitute objectivity and human experience.


I would say that despite inconsistencies,  Humans are coldly objective..


You've got facebook, why , to meet females,why,  pleasure of procreation, why, to procreate, why, to live

You've got mcdonolds, why, it's delicious, why,  pleasure of eating, why, to live



So where you draw the line forms a difference in opinion,   but you go back to further enough.. You get mostly the same result.



What a computer would do in this case, is reach these conclusions faster,  while being able to incorporate opinions / facts/ and fiction from big data..

It's not a matter of reaching right or wrong,  it's more about reaching  good consensus on what's actually happening..




Whereas a human decision would always be very narrow and myopic
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 06 July 2017, 16:33:11
You've got mcdonolds, why, it's delicious, why,  pleasure of eating, why, to live
Junk food is addictive and by definition deficient in nutrition. If you eat only junk food, you may even refuse actual food rich in nutrition, because it's comparatively bland.

The same issue with the FB example: if you use FB to have sex, but don't have kids (say, because of birth control), well, that's ultimately a failure.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SBJ on Fri, 07 July 2017, 05:34:59
I honestly don't see the point of MX Browns.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Fri, 07 July 2017, 07:21:44
I honestly don't see the point of MX Browns.

Good middle ground? I like my Gateron Browns.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SBJ on Fri, 07 July 2017, 07:47:16
I honestly don't see the point of MX Browns.

Good middle ground? I like my Gateron Browns.
I am sure some people see the value, I just don't.
The way I type and the force I use - I feel nothing on Browns. I much prefer Blues or Greens.

I was so disappointed with the VA68M I got with Browns, but it was my own fault I could've had Greens in them but opted for Browns.
I still use it though, just so I don't feel the money's wasted. :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: OneNightFriend on Fri, 07 July 2017, 08:52:39
I honestly don't see the point of MX Browns.

Good middle ground? I like my Gateron Browns.
I am sure some people see the value, I just don't.
The way I type and the force I use - I feel nothing on Browns. I much prefer Blues or Greens.

I was so disappointed with the VA68M I got with Browns, but it was my own fault I could've had Greens in them but opted for Browns.
I still use it though, just so I don't feel the money's wasted.
I think this is a relatively common complaint about cherry browns. You might try gats to at least be fair to the concept of browns. Ultimately though if you like clicky then you like clicky.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Fri, 07 July 2017, 08:54:53
Optical switches are the stupidest idea ever.  They can't even keep the LED's from going out on backlit keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Fri, 07 July 2017, 10:03:54
A metal tray with a sandwich of components -- a circuit board, a flat mounting plate, and switches does not a keyboard make. Talk about under-engineering. Three words: variable key height.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 07 July 2017, 10:23:39
A metal tray with a sandwich of components -- a circuit board, a flat mounting plate, and switches does not a keyboard make. Talk about under-engineering. Three words: variable key height.



1 Word..


Ergodox... !!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 07 July 2017, 10:54:48
A metal tray with a sandwich of components -- a circuit board, a flat mounting plate, and switches does not a keyboard make. Talk about under-engineering. Three words: variable key height.

Deskthority: Designing a custom Topre board - by attheicearcade (https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/designing-a-custom-topre-board-t11734.html)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fouras on Fri, 07 July 2017, 11:19:52
Gateron browns are the worst feeling switches I've tried. Cherry ones are fine in comparison.

The keyboard without caps = naked woman thing is super cringy.

Any set of caps without an option for mod-colored tilde and backslash is junk.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Prince Valiant on Fri, 07 July 2017, 11:44:43
99.9% of people do not benefit from mechanical keyboards.

(Attachment Link)
Seems a bit high. Fatigue of my hands/fingers is minimal for me since I switched over, I'd say that's beneficial.

I haven't thrown much money at them either. The only things I've pondered are a better quality board to replace my current quirky one and/or maybe an Ergodox (though the cost wards me off).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Sat, 08 July 2017, 02:17:17
tp4tissue is a valuable, helpful, kind, constructive member of this community  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kasakka on Sat, 08 July 2017, 04:37:03

3) HATE artisan keycaps. Like, really really hate. There was a lucky cat one I wanted once, but the chance of it ever being put on one of my keyboards is about equal to the chance that I'd use a mousepad made out of fish tank gravel.
4) Hate full size keyboards - 60%s go perfect with my kensington slimblade at work, and TKLs work well enough with my small to travel sized mice at home. I like to have everything in as small a space as possible. I wouldn't mind the numpad if it was on the left, but I'd still never use it so what's the point.

I wouldn't use hate personally but I don't like the majority of artisan keycaps. Most of them aren't very nice to use as keys and don't look that great. The ones that do (for example everything Jellykeys does) are really beautiful though. People are free to collect whatever they want. I mean I own more guitars than I have time to play...

I've come to dislike full size keyboards. They indeed do seem like a waste of space. 60-65% is ideal for me but I would not go with the 40-45% either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sat, 08 July 2017, 10:51:16
I mean I own more guitars than I have time to play...

I think it would be a much more valid comparison (to artisan keycaps) if you said you owned more Guitar Hero controllers than you have time to play with.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Sat, 08 July 2017, 12:19:49
The Unicomp Model M feels better than the IBM Model M. There I said it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mason on Mon, 17 July 2017, 10:10:07
I've been using this board with an ISO enter for a few minutes and I actually really like it. There's no reason for the \| key to be larger than 1u.

I may consider switching when I build a board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 17 July 2017, 10:57:03
I've been using this board with an ISO enter for a few minutes and I actually really like it. There's no reason for the \| key to be larger than 1u.

I may consider switching when I build a board.

Wholeheartedly agree. Alternatively, when building a board yourself, consider using ANSI Enter with Backspace where \ | is right now, and splitting up the 2u key that was backspace into two 1u.

Very good layout unless you need \ very often.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mason on Mon, 17 July 2017, 11:49:51
I've been using this board with an ISO enter for a few minutes and I actually really like it. There's no reason for the \| key to be larger than 1u.

I may consider switching when I build a board.

Wholeheartedly agree. Alternatively, when building a board yourself, consider using ANSI Enter with Backspace where \ | is right now, and splitting up the 2u key that was backspace into two 1u.

Very good layout unless you need \ very often.

I had that on my 60% boards. Split backspace looks out of place on larger boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 17 July 2017, 11:54:52
It's true that the |\ key doesn't need to be larger than 1u. I don't think it is 1.5u because of any ergonomic benefit, but rather only as a by-product of having nowhere else to go on an ANSI board. (The HHKB solution is interesting, but violates all my muscle memory as to where the Delete key should be.)

By the same token, the ISO Return key is a waste of a key position. There is no utility in making it consume space on row 2. I am never going to reach up there to hit the key; my pinky will always go laterally two spots from the home position. I don't know why anyone would extend their pinky up to row 2 just to hit Return, especially since they never have to.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 17 July 2017, 12:17:20
Extending the pinkie that much sounds awful.

I move the whole hand though. When striking the HHKB Backspace or ISO/JIS Enter, I only move my elbow a bit, hence rotate the whole hand so that the pinkie lands on the correct key.

Basically the same thing as with Tab.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 18 July 2017, 16:05:23
Extending the pinkie that much sounds awful.

I move the whole hand though. When striking the HHKB Backspace or ISO/JIS Enter, I only move my elbow a bit, hence rotate the whole hand so that the pinkie lands on the correct key.

Basically the same thing as with Tab.

Play many an instrument.  Plenty of pinky stretching can happen there.  The amount of pinky movement to get to an ANSI enter key is trivial.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 18 July 2017, 16:33:59
The design of most musical instruments sucks (and dealing with the aftermath is a common practice, example (http://rsi.unl.edu/music.html)).

"Using larger muscle groups" is exactly what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 18 July 2017, 18:42:43
The design of most musical instruments sucks (and dealing with the aftermath is a common practice, example (http://rsi.unl.edu/music.html)).

"Using larger muscle groups" is exactly what I'm talking about.

Sure but that's not really the point.  It was that the movement of my pinky to hit the enter key, in comparison to playing many instruments, is pretty trivial.  I often move my hand as well but extending the pinky to hit the ANSI enter key hasn't really been a big deal for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 18 July 2017, 18:44:30
Shooting yourself in the foot is pretty trivial compared to blowing your head off.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 18 July 2017, 18:57:42
I have found that ANSI, ISO and HHKB layouts are equally easy to use; but, they have minimal advantages and disadvantages that are so small to be significant. I found ANSI to be the worst fit for my needs and the other two providing the same level of comfort.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 19 July 2017, 02:25:47
Shooting yourself in the foot is pretty trivial compared to blowing your head off.

And now we see the violence inherent in ISO keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Petch on Wed, 19 July 2017, 06:49:09
ISO is awful, I grew up on it and can't go back now. Unusable left shift, enter key further away from home row. Just no.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 19 July 2017, 07:11:32
ISO is awful, I grew up on it and can't go back now.
I wonder what you use now.
enter key further away from home row.
It's literally on the home row. It also spreads one row above it, but it's on the home row.
Unusable left shift
If you use [unmodified] ANSI, I wonder how you press Ctrl or Backspace… or right Shift for that matter.

Oh wait, "larger muscle groups" probably. Then the left Shift isn't unusable at all.

I have found that ANSI, ISO and HHKB layouts are equally easy to use; but, they have minimal advantages and disadvantages that are so small to be significant.
Thus, ErgoDox.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 19 July 2017, 11:38:04
Ergodox has its own set of layout flaws.  No keyboard is ideal or at least ideal for all users.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 19 July 2017, 12:10:05
Perfect is the enemy of good.

Recognizing why something like ErgoDox is more suitable for touch typing [than the Sholes' keyboard] is a matter of Anatomy and Physiology 101.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Marutks on Wed, 19 July 2017, 12:12:17
I am huge fan of rubber dome keyboards.    :thumb:
The cheaper the better. Sometimes not all keys work but it's not end of the world.    :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 19 July 2017, 13:02:18
Perfect is the enemy of good.

Recognizing why something like ErgoDox is more suitable for touch typing [than the Sholes' keyboard] is a matter of Anatomy and Physiology 101.

Yup.  I also realize I really don't have a need for an Ergodox.  As a bonus, it saves me money as I don't need to buy Ergodox kits for any set purchased.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 19 July 2017, 13:09:57
Am an absolute Python newb--starting to think that a 1.5u backslash/ANSI could help me reduce my error rate a bit. Seems like most people here would rather have 1u backslash.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Marutks on Wed, 19 July 2017, 13:30:20
I prefer 1.5u backspace and 1u backslash. HHKB style. Luckily most keycap sets include 1.5u backspace/delete key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 19 July 2017, 14:00:33
All my muscle memory is tied to QWERTY. Switching to anything else would simply be a waste of my time and energy.

I don't mind the 1.5u |\ key. I'm not sure what I'd rather have there anyway.

I have an alternate layout that I designed (for a full-size board) that I think would have been nice had it become the standard back in the 80s. But now such layout fantasies are pretty pointless (for me). I'm content with ANSI 104/108.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ɔiɈɘʜɈƨ∍∀ on Thu, 20 July 2017, 01:03:37
hhkb layout is way overrated for work flow usage    sincerely 980c owner
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Thu, 20 July 2017, 06:08:29
hhkb layout is way overrated for work flow usage    sincerely 980c owner

If you use it in the way it was originally intended, for UNIX/Emacs usage, it's great. For something like data entry, of course a numpad is going to be more useful, but that's not the use-case the HHKB layout was intended to be used for.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 20 July 2017, 07:21:32
hhkb layout is way overrated for work flow usage    sincerely 980c owner

If you use it in the way it was originally intended, for UNIX/Emacs usage, it's great. For something like data entry, of course a numpad is going to be more useful, but that's not the use-case the HHKB layout was intended to be used for.

Is there any UNIX computer in use nowadays? and who uses Emacs only?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 20 July 2017, 07:29:56
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 20 July 2017, 07:33:33
hhkb layout is way overrated for work flow usage    sincerely 980c owner

If you use it in the way it was originally intended, for UNIX/Emacs usage, it's great. For something like data entry, of course a numpad is going to be more useful, but that's not the use-case the HHKB layout was intended to be used for.

Is there any UNIX computer in use nowadays? and who uses Emacs only?

My one math professor used emacs to code live problems for us

He could type 150 WPM in code and he used an mx brown full size layout ansi

I've used pretty much all layouts except 40%, and they make little difference

So, a math professor is the HHKB's prototype user?

I agree that ANSI multiple  layouts make little difference for actual use?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 20 July 2017, 07:59:36
Is there any UNIX computer in use nowadays?
Yes, just like there's still running code in Cobol from decades ago.

Besides, *BSD systems are unices, MacOS is a certified Unix and GNU/Linux can be spiritually close enough depending on use case.

and who uses Emacs only?
I know a few people, at least one is using it even as a window manager.

Some are old-school hackers in academia (CompSci/math), some are sysadmins, some are writers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Thu, 20 July 2017, 09:32:37
Shooting yourself in the foot is pretty trivial compared to blowing your head off.

 :)) ****ing A
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kmba on Thu, 20 July 2017, 10:28:48
Kosmos are ugly. Fugus are ugly. Clacks  are ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 20 July 2017, 10:41:10
 :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 20 July 2017, 11:36:30
Kosmos are ugly. Fugus are ugly. Clacks  are ugly.

Fugus look alrite, it's definitely at least, expressive ..


clacks are definitely ugly, but clack has cachet as they're really the first pokemon of the keycap scene.

But like all things pokemon,  people forget about them, the market plummets and the keys become worthless.


For example,  if a clack wasn't supported and coveted by the market,   it's really just an average looking keycap, devoid of any deep artistry or geometric progressions.  There's nothing inherently beautiful about clack skulls.. not the physical form, not the connotation.   

Once the hype is out,  and it's been going out following the ubiquity of mechanical keyboard itself, the clacks will instantly go in the basement bins next to the pokemon cards.

My basement is full of similar trinkets,  pokemon, digimon, yugioh, magic, tamagotchi, yoyos, furby, couple of beanybabies, stamp collection
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 20 July 2017, 13:02:29
hhkb layout is way overrated for work flow usage    sincerely 980c owner

If you use it in the way it was originally intended, for UNIX/Emacs usage, it's great. For something like data entry, of course a numpad is going to be more useful, but that's not the use-case the HHKB layout was intended to be used for.

UNIX admin chiming in.  I used the layout for years on Sun keyboards.  It's a programmer's keyboard.  It's decent at Emacs but sucks for UNIX given the placement of the \| key in a bad location.  To be honest, though, for a Ctrl-happy editor like Emacs, I'd rather the Ctrl key in the ANSI location.  I use Emacs mostly from set -o emacs and going through lots of Ctrl use, I've found that I don't like the Caps Lock location as much for the Ctrl key.


Is there any UNIX computer in use nowadays? and who uses Emacs only?

Plenty of UNIX in use daily.  Solaris, AIX, and HP-UX are all still current UNIX operating systems.  Probably a few other smaller ones as well in the fully commercial world.  BSD UNIX OSes are still around.  MacOS is BSD with a Mach microkernel.  Linux is UNIX-like without using original UNIX code and huge amounts of the internet as well as enterprises run on or at least include Linux.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Thu, 20 July 2017, 15:58:18
I began using Emacs back in 1981 when the keyboard standard of the day was to have the Ctrl key next to the A key. But then IBM moved it to the bottom row and I grudgingly adapted to that.

I spent a grand total of 4 years using keyboards with Ctrl where Caps Lock is now, and the last 32 years getting used to Ctrl on the bottom row. There is no earthly reason to switch back, regardless of which OS or text editor I am using. And I'd venture to say that 99.999% of keyboard users today have never experienced Ctrl next to A. You HHKB people make no sense. You're totally free to like/prefer the board, but your ergonomic arguments don't hold water.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _haru on Fri, 21 July 2017, 00:30:05
I hate typing on Topre. It feels like the time I lubed my rubber dome board with WD-40.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Fri, 21 July 2017, 04:53:13
I began using Emacs back in 1981 when the keyboard standard of the day was to have the Ctrl key next to the A key. But then IBM moved it to the bottom row and I grudgingly adapted to that.

I spent a grand total of 4 years using keyboards with Ctrl where Caps Lock is now, and the last 32 years getting used to Ctrl on the bottom row. There is no earthly reason to switch back, regardless of which OS or text editor I am using. And I'd venture to say that 99.999% of keyboard users today have never experienced Ctrl next to A. You HHKB people make no sense. You're totally free to like/prefer the board, but your ergonomic arguments don't hold water.

It's not that big of a deal to switch a key to most people and Ctrl next to A greatly reduces pinky stretching.

If you think that it would be to difficult for you to change okay, but saying that the argument is nil because of that makes no sense.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Fri, 21 July 2017, 04:58:09
You HHKB people make no sense. You're totally free to like/prefer the board, but your ergonomic arguments don't hold water.

Well, people might feel that something is more ergonomic for them, and that's cool, but as long as no representative study has been done, you can't really argue either way, it's merely a matter of opinion. Even feeling that it makes no difference is just subjective.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Fri, 21 July 2017, 06:23:27
You HHKB people make no sense. You're totally free to like/prefer the board, but your ergonomic arguments don't hold water.

I mean when I go from "Emacs pinky" to not having it I think it certainly works. I also find it much more useful to use in games, the whole awkward hand contortion thing just doesn't work or make sense to me. While I can certainly use control in its now standard position, it's less about where control is and more about why the **** do I need a caps lock key taking up a useful home-row spot.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Fri, 21 July 2017, 06:24:59
I hate typing on Topre. It feels like the time I lubed my rubber dome board with WD-40.

...why did you lube a rubber dome with WD40?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: UTEster750 on Fri, 21 July 2017, 06:30:27
I hate typing on Topre. It feels like the time I lubed my rubber dome board with WD-40.

...why did you lube a rubber dome with WD40?

I want to know the thought process behind this!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SBJ on Fri, 21 July 2017, 07:25:11
I hate typing on Topre. It feels like the time I lubed my rubber dome board with WD-40.

...why did you lube a rubber dome with WD40?

I want to know the thought process behind this!
Why not? :))
It's all about the learning process fellas.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: UTEster750 on Fri, 21 July 2017, 07:35:46
I hate typing on Topre. It feels like the time I lubed my rubber dome board with WD-40.

...why did you lube a rubber dome with WD40?

I want to know the thought process behind this!
Why not? :))
It's all about the learning process fellas.

Next time going to try with WD40 silicone spray?  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 21 July 2017, 08:27:40
I hate typing on Topre. It feels like the time I lubed my rubber dome board with WD-40.

...why did you lube a rubber dome with WD40?

I want to know the thought process behind this!
Why not? :))
It's all about the learning process fellas.

Next time going to try with WD40 silicone spray?  :))

Use MEDICAL GRADE silicone spray, not WD40.

- Sauce -

http://vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/2432/rubber-maintenance (http://vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/2432/rubber-maintenance)

- Not Scuba Stuff -

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2642-How-to-Soften-Old-Hard-Rubber (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2642-How-to-Soften-Old-Hard-Rubber)

- Technical Reads -

http://www.bouncing-balls.com/chemistry_tech_conservation/conserve.htm (http://www.bouncing-balls.com/chemistry_tech_conservation/conserve.htm)



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: UTEster750 on Fri, 21 July 2017, 08:35:00
I hate typing on Topre. It feels like the time I lubed my rubber dome board with WD-40.

...why did you lube a rubber dome with WD40?

I want to know the thought process behind this!
Why not? :))
It's all about the learning process fellas.

Next time going to try with WD40 silicone spray?  :))

Use MEDICAL GRADE silicone spray, not WD40.

- Sauce -

http://vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/2432/rubber-maintenance (http://vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/2432/rubber-maintenance)

- Not Scuba Stuff -

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2642-How-to-Soften-Old-Hard-Rubber (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2642-How-to-Soften-Old-Hard-Rubber)

- Technical Reads -

http://www.bouncing-balls.com/chemistry_tech_conservation/conserve.htm (http://www.bouncing-balls.com/chemistry_tech_conservation/conserve.htm)

I wouldn't be using it at all, just taking the piss  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 21 July 2017, 09:02:14
I hate typing on Topre. It feels like the time I lubed my rubber dome board with WD-40.

...why did you lube a rubber dome with WD40?

I want to know the thought process behind this!
Why not? :))
It's all about the learning process fellas.

Next time going to try with WD40 silicone spray?  :))

Use MEDICAL GRADE silicone spray, not WD40.

- Sauce -

http://vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/2432/rubber-maintenance (http://vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/2432/rubber-maintenance)

- Not Scuba Stuff -

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2642-How-to-Soften-Old-Hard-Rubber (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2642-How-to-Soften-Old-Hard-Rubber)

- Technical Reads -

http://www.bouncing-balls.com/chemistry_tech_conservation/conserve.htm (http://www.bouncing-balls.com/chemistry_tech_conservation/conserve.htm)

I wouldn't be using it at all, just taking the piss  :p

Users have reported a change in the silicone after 5-10 years. Just covering my ass because I've mentioned silicone spray before.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _haru on Fri, 21 July 2017, 09:10:31
...why did you lube a rubber dome with WD40?

I want to know the thought process behind this!

This was a couple of years ago, twelve-year-old me thought it would be a cool way to make my keyboard more linear on the cheap.

Why not? :))
It's all about the learning process fellas.

Yup, exactly this. If I hadn't done some of the crazy crap I've done in my previous years, I wouldn't have my sweet board today :)

Next time going to try with WD40 silicone spray?  :))

Was thinking about that for MX switches. Might buy a can and see how it goes :)

I wouldn't be using it at all, just taking the piss  :p

Oh :V
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 21 July 2017, 10:16:01
...why did you lube a rubber dome with WD40?

I want to know the thought process behind this!

This was a couple of years ago, twelve-year-old me thought it would be a cool way to make my keyboard more linear on the cheap.

Why not? :))
It's all about the learning process fellas.

Yup, exactly this. If I hadn't done some of the crazy crap I've done in my previous years, I wouldn't have my sweet board today :)

Next time going to try with WD40 silicone spray?  :))

Was thinking about that for MX switches. Might buy a can and see how it goes :)

I wouldn't be using it at all, just taking the piss  :p

Oh :V

Just after my 8th birthday, I decided to deconstruct a Sonic the Hedgehog R/C car in an attempt to rebuild it as an R/C boat. It didn't go well. Has nothing to do with keyboards--but the point is that failure is often the main component in experimentation. It would be wise to only spray the top of the domes imo

edit - with silicone spray.. not WD40. WD40 on none of the things..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 21 July 2017, 13:33:54
I began using Emacs back in 1981 when the keyboard standard of the day was to have the Ctrl key next to the A key. But then IBM moved it to the bottom row and I grudgingly adapted to that.

I spent a grand total of 4 years using keyboards with Ctrl where Caps Lock is now, and the last 32 years getting used to Ctrl on the bottom row. There is no earthly reason to switch back, regardless of which OS or text editor I am using. And I'd venture to say that 99.999% of keyboard users today have never experienced Ctrl next to A. You HHKB people make no sense. You're totally free to like/prefer the board, but your ergonomic arguments don't hold water.

It's not that big of a deal to switch a key to most people and Ctrl next to A greatly reduces pinky stretching.

If you think that it would be to difficult for you to change okay, but saying that the argument is nil because of that makes no sense.


Might be more a matter of pinky preference rather than just thinking about the length of the stretch.  Moving my pinky to the Caps Lock is pretty easy, yes.  Holding it down, though, gets problematic for certain Ctrl key combinations.  Mostly bottom row left-hand stuff that gets used a lot in Windows or at the Linux/UNIX command line.  Ctrl-C isn't too bad but Z and X get a bit uncomfortable with the home row Ctrl key in comparison to being down in the corner.

To me, the difference in pinky movement is entirely unimportant.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Fri, 21 July 2017, 14:18:14
3) I think most artisan caps look like **** but no one wants to be honest and tell the makers to continue improving their designs/processes. People want exclusive **** and are willing to kiss ass to get it.

some hardcore truth right there

How many times have we seen the same dang thing -- kind of uninteresting after your nth time seeing some recolor of a skull/whatever. The providers of artisan caps should think in terms high craftsmanship/hand made/hand-painted creations. I've seen tiny little paintings that people have made by painting finger nails, pennies. Artisans should think of becoming artists, learning their trade some more, upping their game.

This is what I'm talking about: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75222.0
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Fri, 21 July 2017, 15:46:30
Well, people might feel that something is more ergonomic for them, and that's cool, but as long as no representative study has been done, you can't really argue either way, it's merely a matter of opinion. Even feeling that it makes no difference is just subjective.

We don't need a study to tell us what the most common keyboard layouts in the Western world are. They are QWERTY-based ANSI/ISO with the Ctrl key on the bottom row. Everyone's muscle memory is attuned to this layout. It is the standard and it is what nearly everyone who uses a keyboard is accustomed to. That's not a matter of opinion.

Health issues aside, ergonomics are irrelevant when muscle memory has already made a particular muscular action innate, almost subconscious. For anyone who uses the Ctrl key a lot, its position on the bottom row has long since ceased to be awkward, probably around the same time typing in general ceased to be awkward. For anyone who doesn't use the Ctrl key much, or for whom typing is always awkward, I submit that there is no position for the Ctrl key that is going to make any appreciable difference.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Sun, 23 July 2017, 18:28:10
Well, people might feel that something is more ergonomic for them, and that's cool, but as long as no representative study has been done, you can't really argue either way, it's merely a matter of opinion. Even feeling that it makes no difference is just subjective.

We don't need a study to tell us what the most common keyboard layouts in the Western world are. They are QWERTY-based ANSI/ISO with the Ctrl key on the bottom row. Everyone's muscle memory is attuned to this layout. It is the standard and it is what nearly everyone who uses a keyboard is accustomed to. That's not a matter of opinion.

Health issues aside, ergonomics are irrelevant when muscle memory has already made a particular muscular action innate, almost subconscious. For anyone who uses the Ctrl key a lot, its position on the bottom row has long since ceased to be awkward, probably around the same time typing in general ceased to be awkward. For anyone who doesn't use the Ctrl key much, or for whom typing is always awkward, I submit that there is no position for the Ctrl key that is going to make any appreciable difference.

Or some people don't care about muscle memory that much and prefer being a bit more comfortable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sun, 23 July 2017, 22:14:17
"When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." -- Wikipedia

Are you talking about something which was once muscle memory, but has become uncomfortable over time? Or are you referring to a motor activity that was so uncomfortable from the start that it was never repeated enough times to become so? In the case of the former, I would definitely recommend learning a new method that doesn't risk causing harm to oneself (the discomfort may be a sign of more serious health issues). In the case of the latter, I would similarly recommend an alternate muscular action that avoids the discomfort.

However, in my case (and the case for what I suspect is 99.999% of keyboard users out there), things like Ctrl on the bottom row present no noticeable discomfort at all, and so having muscle memory tied to it isn't a problem. Moreover, thanks to muscle memory, that layout is yielding the benefits of "maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." Changing to something else would be patently counter-productive, and recommending that folks do so would be doing them a disservice.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Mon, 24 July 2017, 00:46:12
"When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." -- Wikipedia

Are you talking about something which was once muscle memory, but has become uncomfortable over time? Or are you referring to a motor activity that was so uncomfortable from the start that it was never repeated enough times to become so? In the case of the former, I would definitely recommend learning a new method that doesn't risk causing harm to oneself (the discomfort may be a sign of more serious health issues). In the case of the latter, I would similarly recommend an alternate muscular action that avoids the discomfort.

However, in my case (and the case for what I suspect is 99.999% of keyboard users out there), things like Ctrl on the bottom row present no noticeable discomfort at all, and so having muscle memory tied to it isn't a problem. Moreover, thanks to muscle memory, that layout is yielding the benefits of "maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." Changing to something else would be patently counter-productive, and recommending that folks do so would be doing them a disservice.

maximum motor/memory efficiency =/= comfort

If i was used to throwing my board in the air to register a certain press, that doesn't mean there's no benefit to me learning to do that a different way.
My memory and motor systems were used to qwerty, but I found it uncomfortable and have changed keyboard layouts twice since then, which was worth the effort.


99% of people only use control very sparingly as well, so it could be anywhere on a keyboard and they wouldn't be bothered, doesn't mean that's the right spot for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 24 July 2017, 01:03:04
"When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." -- Wikipedia

Are you talking about something which was once muscle memory, but has become uncomfortable over time? Or are you referring to a motor activity that was so uncomfortable from the start that it was never repeated enough times to become so? In the case of the former, I would definitely recommend learning a new method that doesn't risk causing harm to oneself (the discomfort may be a sign of more serious health issues). In the case of the latter, I would similarly recommend an alternate muscular action that avoids the discomfort.

However, in my case (and the case for what I suspect is 99.999% of keyboard users out there), things like Ctrl on the bottom row present no noticeable discomfort at all, and so having muscle memory tied to it isn't a problem. Moreover, thanks to muscle memory, that layout is yielding the benefits of "maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." Changing to something else would be patently counter-productive, and recommending that folks do so would be doing them a disservice.

maximum motor/memory efficiency =/= comfort

If i was used to throwing my board in the air to register a certain press, that doesn't mean there's no benefit to me learning to do that a different way.
My memory and motor systems were used to qwerty, but I found it uncomfortable and have changed keyboard layouts twice since then, which was worth the effort.


99% of people only use control very sparingly as well, so it could be anywhere on a keyboard and they wouldn't be bothered, doesn't mean that's the right spot for it.

I use Ctrl a bit more heavily than most.  I'm a UNIX admin so get the typical Ctrl-C/Z usage, use emacs at the CLI, make heavy use of the keyboard shortcuts in Windows apps (lots of Ctrl use there), and play FPS where Ctrl use for crouch is pretty common.  There are those that use it more than me but I do use it a fair amount.

I prefer it in the corner.  It's more comfortable for me with certain Ctrl combinations such as row 4 left-hand keys. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: poq on Mon, 24 July 2017, 01:18:19
"When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." -- Wikipedia

Are you talking about something which was once muscle memory, but has become uncomfortable over time? Or are you referring to a motor activity that was so uncomfortable from the start that it was never repeated enough times to become so? In the case of the former, I would definitely recommend learning a new method that doesn't risk causing harm to oneself (the discomfort may be a sign of more serious health issues). In the case of the latter, I would similarly recommend an alternate muscular action that avoids the discomfort.

However, in my case (and the case for what I suspect is 99.999% of keyboard users out there), things like Ctrl on the bottom row present no noticeable discomfort at all, and so having muscle memory tied to it isn't a problem. Moreover, thanks to muscle memory, that layout is yielding the benefits of "maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." Changing to something else would be patently counter-productive, and recommending that folks do so would be doing them a disservice.

maximum motor/memory efficiency =/= comfort

If i was used to throwing my board in the air to register a certain press, that doesn't mean there's no benefit to me learning to do that a different way.
My memory and motor systems were used to qwerty, but I found it uncomfortable and have changed keyboard layouts twice since then, which was worth the effort.


99% of people only use control very sparingly as well, so it could be anywhere on a keyboard and they wouldn't be bothered, doesn't mean that's the right spot for it.

I use Ctrl a bit more heavily than most.  I'm a UNIX admin so get the typical Ctrl-C/Z usage, use emacs at the CLI, make heavy use of the keyboard shortcuts in Windows apps (lots of Ctrl use there), and play FPS where Ctrl use for crouch is pretty common.  There are those that use it more than me but I do use it a fair amount.

I prefer it in the corner.  It's more comfortable for me with certain Ctrl combinations such as row 4 left-hand keys.

I use it probably even more than you, all of my window manager's actions are prefixed by C-t, emacs user as well. The standard shortcuts (C-c/v/x/z) don't bother me because I don't use them, and even if i did they're mostly accessed by my right hand (dvorak). I don't like it in the corner because of how I have to contort my hand instead of moving my left pinky over a little bit. I've had it bound to Caps since before i even owned a mech, so it's not like i use that position just because of an HHKB.

Like I said before though, i'm less concerned about people wanting to have a control in the corner of the board than i am about people leaving caps lock in it's standard spot. It's a waste.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SBJ on Mon, 24 July 2017, 02:54:27
hhkb layout is way overrated for work flow usage    sincerely 980c owner
HIGH-FIVE. :D
I needs those dedicated arrow keys too. :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Mon, 24 July 2017, 09:25:22
Beige is not a color. Beige is an ugly color. No one, except computer makers use beige, unless they just want to mess with us. Shame about all that beige.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 24 July 2017, 10:24:35
Beige is not a color. Beige is an ugly color. No one, except computer makers use beige, unless they just want to mess with us. Shame about all that beige.


Beige is very nice on leather textures.

It's a good alternative to white, because titanium white pops too much and make a person look needy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Mon, 24 July 2017, 10:47:55
Beige is not a color. Beige is an ugly color. No one, except computer makers use beige, unless they just want to mess with us. Shame about all that beige.

There's this beige material that's commonly used for flooring, ceiling, walls, tables, chairs, decks, shelves, cabinets, doors, and just about anything you can think of.

It's called wood.  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Mon, 24 July 2017, 11:11:09
Beige is not a color. Beige is an ugly color. No one, except computer makers use beige, unless they just want to mess with us. Shame about all that beige.


Beige is very nice on leather textures.

It's a good alternative to white, because titanium white pops too much and make a person look needy.

Fine. Beige is okay in Country Western clothing. :|
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Mon, 24 July 2017, 11:16:58
@zslane

One can retrain muscle memory and for most people a few weeks of not being 100% efficient in the use of the Ctrl key is not a problem.
Numerous people have reported the change in the Ctrl key being more comfortable and some even reducing pain, you may question those reports but it is still worth to try it out for most users.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 24 July 2017, 11:17:13
Beige is not a color. Beige is an ugly color. No one, except computer makers use beige, unless they just want to mess with us. Shame about all that beige.


Beige is very nice on leather textures.

It's a good alternative to white, because titanium white pops too much and make a person look needy.

Fine. Beige is okay in Country Western clothing. :|

Beige is the color of my childhood computing experience :<
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Mon, 24 July 2017, 11:27:34

Beige is not a color. Beige is an ugly color. No one, except computer makers use beige, unless they just want to mess with us. Shame about all that beige.

If Beige is not a color it cannot be an ugly color, it can merely be ugly. Actually a lot of houses are painted in light beige, but I guess one could call it "sandstone" at that point. I've also seen it being used for ground color in pedestrian areas. Not a fan of it on KBs either, though.

However, in my case (and the case for what I suspect is 99.999% of keyboard users out there), things like Ctrl on the bottom row present no noticeable discomfort at all, and so having muscle memory tied to it isn't a problem. Moreover, thanks to muscle memory, that layout is yielding the benefits of "maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." Changing to something else would be patently counter-productive, and recommending that folks do so would be doing them a disservice.

That is a good point, a lot of "ergonomics" talk with keyboards is proactive, maybe overly so. However, none of us is part of 99% of keyboard users, a lot of us like to do unnecessary changes to their keyboards that don't improve usability in the first place. You won't run around tell all your friends that are happy with rubber domes that they should get a keyboard for 600€, that would be just as much of a disservice.

This whole discussion should be completely removed from what 99% of the users use or do as well. They are not in any way affected by it. What we (and everybody discussing altered keyboard layouts) are talking about is what the best layout is if there was no standard. Muscle memory for me does not matter in this argument.

Well, people might feel that something is more ergonomic for them, and that's cool, but as long as no representative study has been done, you can't really argue either way, it's merely a matter of opinion. Even feeling that it makes no difference is just subjective.

We don't need a study to tell us what the most common keyboard layouts in the Western world are. They are QWERTY-based ANSI/ISO with the Ctrl key on the bottom row. Everyone's muscle memory is attuned to this layout. It is the standard and it is what nearly everyone who uses a keyboard is accustomed to. That's not a matter of opinion.

And it's not what I was saying at all, either. What I was saying is whether a keyboard layout is "better" than another one is a matter of opinion.

Health issues aside, ergonomics are irrelevant when muscle memory has already made a particular muscular action innate, almost subconscious. For anyone who uses the Ctrl key a lot, its position on the bottom row has long since ceased to be awkward, probably around the same time typing in general ceased to be awkward. For anyone who doesn't use the Ctrl key much, or for whom typing is always awkward, I submit that there is no position for the Ctrl key that is going to make any appreciable difference.

It wasn't awkward for me either, but I quickly adapted to moving it to the home row and I like the change. Just because something isn't bad doesn't mean you can't improve it.

This goes for alternate layouts as well. I'm not uncomfortable typing in QWERTZ, but that doesn't mean it's the be-all-end-all solution for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Auk on Mon, 24 July 2017, 11:29:28

Beige, gray, bleugh. Just a daily reminder that everything about modern keyboards is archaic typewriter bull**** that should've been replaced decades ago  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Mon, 24 July 2017, 11:52:34

Beige, gray, bleugh. Just a daily reminder that everything about modern keyboards is archaic typewriter bull**** that should've been replaced decades ago  :p

It is, ain't it. 1870s, says wikipedia. And with QWERTY!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Sholes_typewriter.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 24 July 2017, 11:59:18
Oh boy..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 24 July 2017, 12:20:30
I suppose that fantasizing about a world without standards has a certain appeal, but I just think that the ergonomics case is way overstated, even for this select audience. I mean, you might as well also fantasize about a world in which we have six fingers on each hand; imagine the (pointless) alternate layouts you guys could devise for that situation!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Mon, 24 July 2017, 21:01:00
I used standard ANSI layout (Caps on home row) for almost 20 years before trying a board with Ctrl on the home row and I haven't looked back since. I make heavy use of Windows keyboard shortcuts and I find I'm doing much less reaching and no longer have to move or contort my hand to access them. I now use the home row position for Ctrl in all of my builds.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 25 July 2017, 00:41:54
"When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." -- Wikipedia

Are you talking about something which was once muscle memory, but has become uncomfortable over time? Or are you referring to a motor activity that was so uncomfortable from the start that it was never repeated enough times to become so? In the case of the former, I would definitely recommend learning a new method that doesn't risk causing harm to oneself (the discomfort may be a sign of more serious health issues). In the case of the latter, I would similarly recommend an alternate muscular action that avoids the discomfort.

However, in my case (and the case for what I suspect is 99.999% of keyboard users out there), things like Ctrl on the bottom row present no noticeable discomfort at all, and so having muscle memory tied to it isn't a problem. Moreover, thanks to muscle memory, that layout is yielding the benefits of "maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems." Changing to something else would be patently counter-productive, and recommending that folks do so would be doing them a disservice.

maximum motor/memory efficiency =/= comfort

If i was used to throwing my board in the air to register a certain press, that doesn't mean there's no benefit to me learning to do that a different way.
My memory and motor systems were used to qwerty, but I found it uncomfortable and have changed keyboard layouts twice since then, which was worth the effort.


99% of people only use control very sparingly as well, so it could be anywhere on a keyboard and they wouldn't be bothered, doesn't mean that's the right spot for it.

I use Ctrl a bit more heavily than most.  I'm a UNIX admin so get the typical Ctrl-C/Z usage, use emacs at the CLI, make heavy use of the keyboard shortcuts in Windows apps (lots of Ctrl use there), and play FPS where Ctrl use for crouch is pretty common.  There are those that use it more than me but I do use it a fair amount.

I prefer it in the corner.  It's more comfortable for me with certain Ctrl combinations such as row 4 left-hand keys.

I use it probably even more than you, all of my window manager's actions are prefixed by C-t, emacs user as well. The standard shortcuts (C-c/v/x/z) don't bother me because I don't use them, and even if i did they're mostly accessed by my right hand (dvorak). I don't like it in the corner because of how I have to contort my hand instead of moving my left pinky over a little bit. I've had it bound to Caps since before i even owned a mech, so it's not like i use that position just because of an HHKB.

Like I said before though, i'm less concerned about people wanting to have a control in the corner of the board than i am about people leaving caps lock in it's standard spot. It's a waste.

Dvorack's not really a consideration for me.  I'm coming from ANSI QWERTY.  In that layout, my most-used Ctrl keys are on the bottom left.  To use the Ctrl key for those, the pinky is much more comfortable.  For FPS, left/right movement is about the same.  Forward/back movement has a preference for the corner again. 

Caps lock I don't really care about.  If it's there or if it's moved, meh. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 25 July 2017, 01:58:01
Beige is the color of my childhood computing experience :<
I built and painted the case for my Phantom beige, in the style of mimicking the Apple Extended Keyboard. I took it apart and cleaned it this morning.
I intend to go buy paint later today to repaint it, but I might select another hue of beige.

I am also considering beige-modding my newly acquired Wooting One with a top shell made from a Cherry G80 keyboard because I am not a fan of floating keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 25 July 2017, 03:35:55
What's making me really laugh hard is that sometimes I hear europeans talking about the advantages of alternative layouts, when those layouts have been optimized with english in mind... Maybe there is one that has been optimized for french, probably Bépo.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 25 July 2017, 04:17:52
As a European, I type more in English than in my native language anyway. There are many Swedish programmers who prefer ANSI for programming -- because the programming language symbols are more easily accessible in ANSI. The norm is also to use English for variable names etc. even if your program is only for the domestic market using the domestic language to the user.

And BTW, there is a Swedish version of Dvorak: Svorak, and there is Neo (http://www.neo-layout.org/) which is designed for German.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Tue, 25 July 2017, 04:50:55
What's making me really laugh hard is that sometimes I hear europeans talking about the advantages of alternative layouts, when those layouts have been optimized with english in mind... Maybe there is one that has been optimized for french, probably Bépo.

yeah i type mostly english, and even a layout optimized for english is better for portuguese than qwerty.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Tue, 25 July 2017, 05:32:04
It would be really funny if someone did it the other way around: Design a language that is most comfortable to type with QWERTY :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Auk on Tue, 25 July 2017, 06:26:15
...Design a language that is most comfortable to type with QWERTY :D

the idea did not catch on: Creating a language for which Qwerty is the most optimal keyboard layout (https://www.reddit.com/r/CrazyIdeas/comments/1wfp8x/creating_a_language_for_which_qwerty_is_the_most/)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 25 July 2017, 10:05:09
Beige is the color of my childhood computing experience :<
I built and painted the case for my Phantom beige, in the style of mimicking the Apple Extended Keyboard. I took it apart and cleaned it this morning.
I intend to go buy paint later today to repaint it, but I might select another hue of beige.

I am also considering beige-modding my newly acquired Wooting One with a top shell made from a Cherry G80 keyboard because I am not a fan of floating keys.

Pictures soon? :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 25 July 2017, 12:42:36
Beige, at this point, would honestly be a refreshing break from the X-on-white caps.  Though even then, I'm still not big on the color and was happy to escape the era of beige computing.  Pity, too, as computers were pretty colorful for a time.  Just check out some of the old DEC PDP or Data General S series stuff.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Merranza on Wed, 26 July 2017, 10:15:34
Beige is not a color. Beige is an ugly color. No one, except computer makers use beige, unless they just want to mess with us. Shame about all that beige.

Well, beige is Noctua's primary color scheme :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Wed, 26 July 2017, 11:42:50
Beige, at this point, would honestly be a refreshing break from the X-on-white caps.  Though even then, I'm still not big on the color and was happy to escape the era of beige computing.  Pity, too, as computers were pretty colorful for a time.  Just check out some of the old DEC PDP or Data General S series stuff.

Thanks for the information. Those are some beautiful objects. I'd love to get my hands on IBM's thoughts on computer design. It's so austere, very basic, designed  (of course) but very restrained.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 26 July 2017, 13:18:23
Beige, at this point, would honestly be a refreshing break from the X-on-white caps.  Though even then, I'm still not big on the color and was happy to escape the era of beige computing.  Pity, too, as computers were pretty colorful for a time.  Just check out some of the old DEC PDP or Data General S series stuff.

Thanks for the information. Those are some beautiful objects. I'd love to get my hands on IBM's thoughts on computer design. It's so austere, very basic, designed  (of course) but very restrained.

IBM's thoughts on computer design (or maybe I'm more thinking of operating system design) are somewhat bizarre.  They can get nit-picky as all hell (looking at you, AIX and some of your upgrade tools) or just bizarre (TSO as a slap-on to MVS that still carries on to this day in z/OS while other mainframe OSes figured out in the 70s how to create a well-integrated user shell and every mini-computer OS seems to have started with that in mind).

Their physical design has never been stupendous though it's certainly gotten better since the old beige of the 80s that carried into the 90s.  They went with the trend of dropping beige for black and have mostly stuck with that.  Some of the minicomputer makers from the 70s were doing better stuff there.  Also look at Cray and SGI for some interesting designs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 26 July 2017, 13:36:54
IBM was as conservative a company as you could find in the 20th century. Their design aesthetic ranged from "industrial" to "corporate", which loosely translates into 100% functionality and 0% style. Their products were, by and large, wonderfully engineered but tediously bland to look at.

When they decided to enter the desktop market in 1981, they wanted above all else for the 5150 to be taken seriously by serious business entities. They knew that anything with flashy colors would be viewed with suspicion and disdain by corporate customers, and so they figured that the blander they could make things, the more offices would buy them. They were probably right.

Moreover, faced with ever-increasing marketplace pressures to lower costs, IBM's engineering excellence was compromised (e.g., buckling spring switches instead of beam spring switches, cheap dyesub cylindrical keycaps instead of beautiful double-shot spherical keycaps, etc.), leaving no reason to actually like their products. By 1983 nobody bought IBM because their keyboards were a joy to look at or use, but because they were part of the "IBM compatibility at all costs" mentality that took hold in the '80s.

The fact that anyone today likes or celebrates the IBM desktop aesthetic from the '80s is just plain bizarre. It's an aesthetic only another machine could love.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 26 July 2017, 13:48:58
IBM was as conservative a company as you could find in the 20th century. Their design aesthetic ranged from "industrial" to "corporate", which loosely translates into 100% functionality and 0% style. Their products were, by and large, wonderfully engineered but tediously bland to look at.

When they decided to enter the desktop market in 1981, they wanted above all else for the 5150 to be taken seriously by serious business entities. They knew that anything with flashy colors would be viewed with suspicion and disdain by corporate customers, and so they figured that the blander they could make things, the more offices would buy them. They were probably right.

Moreover, faced with ever-increasing marketplace pressures to lower costs, IBM's engineering excellence was compromised (e.g., buckling spring switches instead of beam spring switches, cheap dyesub cylindrical keycaps instead of beautiful double-shot spherical keycaps, etc.), leaving no reason to actually like their products. By 1983 nobody bought IBM because their keyboards were a joy to look at or use, but because they were part of the "IBM compatibility at all costs" mentality that took hold in the '80s.

The fact that anyone today likes or celebrates the IBM desktop aesthetic from the '80s is just plain bizarre. It's an aesthetic only another machine could love.



You're blending too much personal opinion into the state of history which concretely happened.


When computers costs were very high, their Function was paramount, no business owners cared what these things looked like.  Does it improve productivity, does it reduce cost. 


It's only a RECENT past 20 year phenomenon that low income americans could get a computer..



We went from having clothes AT ALL,  to wearing them for fun ..



Beige served a very different purpose, and their form is emblematic of a time when Utility prevailed over superficiality.


That is the root of the Beige Box celebration..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 26 July 2017, 14:31:30
IBM was as conservative a company as you could find in the 20th century. Their design aesthetic ranged from "industrial" to "corporate", which loosely translates into 100% functionality and 0% style. Their products were, by and large, wonderfully engineered but tediously bland to look at.

When they decided to enter the desktop market in 1981, they wanted above all else for the 5150 to be taken seriously by serious business entities. They knew that anything with flashy colors would be viewed with suspicion and disdain by corporate customers, and so they figured that the blander they could make things, the more offices would buy them. They were probably right.

Moreover, faced with ever-increasing marketplace pressures to lower costs, IBM's engineering excellence was compromised (e.g., buckling spring switches instead of beam spring switches, cheap dyesub cylindrical keycaps instead of beautiful double-shot spherical keycaps, etc.), leaving no reason to actually like their products. By 1983 nobody bought IBM because their keyboards were a joy to look at or use, but because they were part of the "IBM compatibility at all costs" mentality that took hold in the '80s.

The fact that anyone today likes or celebrates the IBM desktop aesthetic from the '80s is just plain bizarre. It's an aesthetic only another machine could love.



You're blending too much personal opinion into the state of history which concretely happened.


When computers costs were very high, their Function was paramount, no business owners cared what these things looked like.  Does it improve productivity, does it reduce cost. 


It's only a RECENT past 20 year phenomenon that low income americans could get a computer..



We went from having clothes AT ALL,  to wearing them for fun ..



Beige served a very different purpose, and their form is emblematic of a time when Utility prevailed over superficiality.


That is the root of the Beige Box celebration..

I think that's still a bit off.  As I've pointed out, looking at some of the DEC PDP and Data General S and Nova servers from the ~16-bit era servers, you can see plenty of colorful options for the data center.  IBM, on the other hand, was about as bland as bland can be with others like HP following suit.

For desktops, it's another matter.  They really only came into play in the 80s when beige server computing was becoming the norm.  Just look at the servers from DEC, Data General, and many others during the early 32-bit server era.  No longer very interesting to look at but more powerful.  Things remained that way until some point in the 90s during the Black Everything revolution which is still pretty popular to this day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Riverman on Wed, 26 July 2017, 15:37:24
Beige is the color of my childhood computing experience :<
I built and painted the case for my Phantom beige, in the style of mimicking the Apple Extended Keyboard. I took it apart and cleaned it this morning.
I intend to go buy paint later today to repaint it, but I might select another hue of beige.

I am also considering beige-modding my newly acquired Wooting One with a top shell made from a Cherry G80 keyboard because I am not a fan of floating keys.
The Apple Extended Keyboard was never beige, it was light grey, but leave them out in the sun for a lot of years and they'll definitely start to look beige.  I think Apple's products from that period still look pretty modern today, precisely because they're not beige.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 26 July 2017, 16:55:27

When computers costs were very high, their Function was paramount, no business owners cared what these things looked like. 

Indeed. IBM's primary customers were businesses, not human beings. Businesses large enough to afford IBM hardware operated according to an accepted corporate groupthink that, as you say, placed productivity and cost above all other concerns. Back then the connection between productivity and the contentedness of employees was not widely recognized or well understood.

But that doesn't explain why IBM couldn't make their products more colorful, since doing so would have had no negative impact on functionality or cost. The reason their products were as bland as they could make them was because it helped reinforce the impression that their products were serious products for serious-minded professionals. The prevailing corporate aesthetic was formal, colorless, and uniform. It governed dress codes as well as office furniture and equipment aesthetics.

There's a reason why Apple's famous "1984" commercial resonated the way it did. It tapped into the essential existential truth about the dominant computer culture of that era.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 26 July 2017, 21:28:47
The Apple Extended Keyboard was never beige, it was light grey, but leave them out in the sun for a lot of years and they'll definitely start to look beige.
I know. It is not a straight replica, more like "inspired by" in its curving shape. The paint I had been using was actually more matched to the darker grey of Cherry's grey modifier keycaps. What I really wanted to match was the original beige colour of the plastic of the BTC case I built it from - it being somewhere in-between the cream white alphas and grey mods.
I tried putting an enamelled Cherry pin in the upper right corner of the border, like the AEKII, but did not like the look.

It is a bit difficult to find a actual beige spray paint to - they are either too bright (cream white), too yellow or without saturation at all.
I saw tips matching to Apple's colours, that "Montana Gold Sahara Yellow" would match the 1977 Apple II and "Montana Gold Cream White" would match the Apple Platinum. I picked up the former but I think it is too yellow - too much matching yellowed plastic than the original colour.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Thu, 27 July 2017, 13:10:08
Yeah, what people around here call "biege" is really just warm gray. Everything I see (in these forums) strongly suggests that most people have very little quality color sense, which even extends to the words they use to label colors.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Thu, 27 July 2017, 13:41:47
Yeah, what people around here call "biege" is really just warm gray. Everything I see (in these forums) strongly suggests that most people have very little quality color sense, which even extends to the words they use to label colors.

Beige. I know it when I see it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 27 July 2017, 14:03:15
Yeah, what people around here call "biege" is really just warm gray. Everything I see (in these forums) strongly suggests that most people have very little quality color sense, which even extends to the words they use to label colors.

Beige. I know it when I see it.

it's a slight yellow-ee white  or brownish white..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Thu, 27 July 2017, 14:20:24
Beige tints:

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Thu, 27 July 2017, 15:15:19
Beige tints:

(Attachment Link)

50 Shades of Beige. If your keyboard matches the color of your granny's underpants, you have a beige keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Thu, 27 July 2017, 15:29:44
Whether or not one likes beige is, of course, a slightly separate matter. But at the very least one ought to understand what beige is (and is not) before passing judgment on it. Model M keyboards (and their clones) are not beige. The HHKB is not beige. The keycap sets for those boards are not beige or "dual beige" or "classic beige" or beige anything. They are all variations of gray.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 27 July 2017, 15:39:17
Whether or not one likes beige is, of course, a slightly separate matter. But at the very least one ought to understand what beige is (and is not) before passing judgment on it. Model M keyboards (and their clones) are not beige. The HHKB is not beige. The keycap sets for those boards are not beige or "dual beige" or "classic beige" or beige anything. They are all variations of gray.

I'm not a beige connoisseur but I think the old IBM clone Commodore PC-II or PC-III my family owned (w/ matching Commodore monitor) fits category rather well. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Thu, 27 July 2017, 16:11:29
Possibly. It's hard to tell from photos posted online. Some photos make it look beige, others just warm gray. The Commodore-64 was definitely beige though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 27 July 2017, 20:08:50
The Commodore machines: 64, 128 and Amiga line have had different hues of beige and cream white. The original Commodore 64 was warm beige, darker than the Vic 20 that came before it.
Later C64 revisions had brighter beige. I owned one late breadbox C64 with the brighter case and an Amiga 500 which I think had the same hue, and I remember both of them as being a kind of beige when they were new.
The Amiga 1000 was definitely cream white, and that cream white came back with the Amiga 3000 and used for later models.

I also have a Commodore PC keyboard from the '80s, and that one is definitely beige, also on the inside where it didn't get much sun.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 27 July 2017, 21:53:10
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Fri, 28 July 2017, 11:49:17
Pretty much all SA/GMK sets especially lately are freaking ugly.

I sort of agree with you, though I am a bit curious what sets you don't find ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 28 July 2017, 21:59:04
I like MX blues (especially with DSA caps).  They might be my favorite switch  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 28 July 2017, 22:00:49
Pretty much all SA/GMK sets especially lately are freaking ugly.

MX browns are great

Infilled POM is so freaking cheap, blank POM isn't worth it to me

What do you think of Nautilus?  What about Skidolcha?  I think they're both beautiful, just wondering what is ugly in your book :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 28 July 2017, 22:39:51
Pretty much all SA/GMK sets especially lately are freaking ugly.


Of course; but, why do you bother to enlighten us, keyboard freaks, with your deep understanding of beauty?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SBJ on Fri, 28 July 2017, 23:37:10
I like MX blues (especially with DSA caps).  They might be my favorite switch  :eek:
I was more a fan of blues than I expected to be.
I haven't tried them with DSA caps, I do have a DSA set though, so I guess it's worth a shot. :D

Only tried DSA on MX Clears so far, not really a fan. It was alright, just not spectacular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 29 July 2017, 21:51:05
I like MX blues (especially with DSA caps).  They might be my favorite switch  :eek:
I was more a fan of blues than I expected to be.
I haven't tried them with DSA caps, I do have a DSA set though, so I guess it's worth a shot. :D

Only tried DSA on MX Clears so far, not really a fan. It was alright, just not spectacular.


Try it out.  Do eeet!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 31 July 2017, 10:41:58
removed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 31 July 2017, 11:56:54
Pretty much all SA/GMK sets especially lately are freaking ugly.


Bring on the brightly colored, unicorn vomit sets.  I find it more interesting the X-on-white alphas or X-on-gray alphas that regularly come though.  SA Lime?  Oh hey, some cool gre.... oh, it's green alphas on gray caps.  Meh.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Mon, 31 July 2017, 12:27:06
MX browns are great

I'm beginning to agree.  I started with MX Browns and I find myself returning to them more than I'd like to admit.

It makes me curious about trying out the new Kailh Box Browns.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 31 July 2017, 12:42:59
Pretty much all SA/GMK sets especially lately are freaking ugly.


Bring on the brightly colored, unicorn vomit sets.

Yeah, a lot of folks seem to think that colored legends look good. Most of the time, they look simply atrocious.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clappingcactus on Mon, 31 July 2017, 12:49:33
Pretty much all SA/GMK sets especially lately are freaking ugly.


Bring on the brightly colored, unicorn vomit sets.

Yeah, a lot of folks seem to think that colored legends look good. Most of the time, they look simply atrocious.

I like colored legends because they're a side effect of us being in this hobby at this time. Soon enough the fad will go away and it'll be a historical curiosity. Which is why I'm reveling in it as much as I can. I completely agree with you that they're a poor design decision. But some times, good design is not the only reason to appreciate design at all!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 31 July 2017, 12:50:43
Sorry, I'm not into avante garde art. Ugly is ugly no matter how you contextualize it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Mon, 31 July 2017, 12:54:13
7-bit's Honeywell SA set is the most aesthetically pleasing to my eyes; preferably all gray (as boring as that is to some.)

Think of MaxKeys Portland - but all Grey.

When you start getting creative CalmDepths is another good one.

Everything else ... eh....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 31 July 2017, 13:05:00
I don't get the appeal of Calm Depths. It marries light blue legends with medium gray caps (for the mods), offering very little contrast. It just doesn't look good to my eyes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Mon, 31 July 2017, 13:12:36
I don't get the appeal of Calm Depths. It marries light blue legends with medium gray caps (for the mods), offering very little contrast. It just doesn't look good to my eyes.

Yeah, I think you are right.  It's been a while since I seen them.

7-Bit is the one to beat.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snorelax on Mon, 31 July 2017, 13:42:54
1. Anything but a fullsize is useless
2. Any MX style clicky switch other than Kailh Bronze or Box White is awful
3. Anything less tactile than a Zealio should not be considered a tactile switch
4. ABS keycaps should not exist, no matter how thick
5. Translucent switch housings are ugly, backlighting LED's similar to Razer's RGB are superior to SMD
6. Floating keycap design is hideous
7. Hotswap should be a standard in keyboards and PCBs
8. Pad printing should be punishable by death
9. ISO layout is the superior layout
10. I like (some) chiclet rubber dome keyboards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Mon, 31 July 2017, 13:50:42
4. ABS keycaps should not exist, no matter how thick
7. Hotswap should be a standard in keyboards and PCBs

#4: I have a preference for ABS because I like super smooth caps to where it is like typing on glass.  Unfortunately not all ABS is this smooth.

#7: Agreed.  Hopefully Kailh hot swap sockets get some love ASAP.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 31 July 2017, 13:57:14
1. Anything but a fullsize is useless
2. Any MX style clicky switch other than Kailh Bronze or Box White is awful
3. Anything less tactile than a Zealio should not be considered a tactile switch
4. ABS keycaps should not exist, no matter how thick
5. Translucent switch housings are ugly, backlighting LED's similar to Razer's RGB are superior to SMD
6. Floating keycap design is hideous
7. Hotswap should be a standard in keyboards and PCBs
8. Pad printing should be punishable by death
9. ISO layout is the superior layout
10. I like (some) chiclet rubber dome keyboards

I agree with most of this, actually. My only comments would be:

3. Maybe we need two different categories: sharp tactile and soft tactile.
4. Until double-shot PBT is perfected and commonplace, I'm afraid ABS is necessary. Dye-sub alone is simply not sufficient.
9. Alas, ISO isn't a single standard, but a family of standards that almost guarantees limited representation in custom keycap sets; a layout tower of babel, if you will. Furthermore, the ISO Return wastes an entire keycap position for absolutely zero benefit.
10. Shame on you. Turn in your mech keyboard geek card immediately.  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 31 July 2017, 15:02:16
#4: I have a preference for ABS because I like super smooth caps to where it is like typing on glass.  Unfortunately not all ABS is this smooth.
And not all PBT caps have a rough texture. They could be made with the same kind of top surface as there's on their walls: even smooth to the point of being glossy.

9. Alas, ISO isn't a single standard, but a family of standards that almost guarantees limited representation in custom keycap sets; a layout tower of babel, if you will.
ISO/IEC 9995-1 is as standard as it gets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 31 July 2017, 16:05:31
ISO/IEC 9995-1 is as standard as it gets.

Right. Okay, let me rephrase:

9. Alas, ISO isn't a single layout, but a family of layouts that almost guarantees limited representation in custom keycap sets; a layout tower of babel, if you will.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 31 July 2017, 16:50:05
ISO/IEC 9995 is a framework for national standards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 31 July 2017, 19:39:46
Yep, and that's the problem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 31 July 2017, 20:32:39
Pretty much all SA/GMK sets especially lately are freaking ugly.


Bring on the brightly colored, unicorn vomit sets.

Yeah, a lot of folks seem to think that colored legends look good. Most of the time, they look simply atrocious.

Colored legends can look good.  I think they're being a bit overdone on white or light gray caps lately.  Lots of people seem to like it so those set creators are doing something right.  It's not really my thing, though.

As for Calm Depths, I find the alpha caps to be very nice but am neutral on the mods. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 31 July 2017, 20:52:52
Lots of people seem to like it so those set creators are doing something right.

Argumentum ad populum. I could facetiously counter-argue that lots of people seem to like cigarettes, so Big Tobacco must be doing something "right". Marketplace success does not always equal Doing Something Good.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 01 August 2017, 16:13:38
Lots of people seem to like it so those set creators are doing something right.

Argumentum ad populum. I could facetiously counter-argue that lots of people seem to like cigarettes, so Big Tobacco must be doing something "right". Marketplace success does not always equal Doing Something Good.

On a plus note, keysets don't have the addictive qualities of nicotine.  They probably do trigger the addictive natures of collectors though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 14 August 2017, 03:39:24
Metal cases are just an easy way to earn some money. We all fall for this myth of the metal CNC cases, when the last thing that you want for nine months in a year is to touch a cold surface which reverberates the sound of your keyboard enhancing the ping.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pabile on Mon, 14 August 2017, 04:21:27
Metal cases are just an easy way to earn some money. We all fall for this myth of the metal CNC cases, when the last thing that you want for nine months in a year is to touch a cold surface which reverberates the sound of your keyboard enhancing the ping.

i think it is more of the solid/heavy look and feel that makes these metal cases sell. pings are small trade off that can be corrected with a cheap mat.
i agree on the cold surface ...and occasional shock from metal exposed area due to peeled/worn out paint.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: teraflame on Mon, 14 August 2017, 13:10:36
Yeah I like wood the best, surprised they aren't more popular. Would love more wood options.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: WhyYouLikeDis on Fri, 18 August 2017, 10:11:41
I love OEM profile.
Imsto pbt is too thick.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fleischverpackung on Fri, 18 August 2017, 11:40:36
everyone using keyboards in a professional way won't be happy without tenkey.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Fri, 18 August 2017, 11:56:46
Metal cases are just an easy way to earn some money. We all fall for this myth of the metal CNC cases, when the last thing that you want for nine months in a year is to touch a cold surface which reverberates the sound of your keyboard enhancing the ping.

I've never noticed coldness or reverberations from the aluminum cases that my Pok3rs have. But maybe it's different with real keyboards (not toy keyboards like 60%ers) with full cases. I'd love to try a full-size board in an aluminum case just to see if your claim stands up to actual experience. But those are so rare, I'm not sure I'll ever get the chance...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: antquinonez on Fri, 18 August 2017, 14:35:29
everyone using keyboards in a professional way won't be happy without tenkey.

Some people get the 10 key pad as a separate device. They'll have this setup on the desk: keyboard space-mouse space-10 key space
I just bring my mouse down, below the 10 key area of my keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 18 August 2017, 17:05:16
"a professional way" = "excel monkey"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Fri, 18 August 2017, 17:09:10
"a professional way" = "excel monkey"

Engineering master.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Fri, 18 August 2017, 17:10:24
Metal cases are just an easy way to earn some money. We all fall for this myth of the metal CNC cases, when the last thing that you want for nine months in a year is to touch a cold surface which reverberates the sound of your keyboard enhancing the ping.

I've never noticed coldness or reverberations from the aluminum cases that my Pok3rs have. But maybe it's different with real keyboards (not toy keyboards like 60%ers) with full cases. I'd love to try a full-size board in an aluminum case just to see if your claim stands up to actual experience. But those are so rare, I'm not sure I'll ever get the chance...

Did you try a super cheap plastic case? It has a nicer sound than the stock one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Fri, 18 August 2017, 17:44:27
My KBP V60 mini originally came in a cheap plastic case. The keyboard just felt cheap overall. I've since re-cased it in a Lambo aluminum case (lined with sorbothane strips) and it sounds and feels way better, at least to me.

I expect the same to hold true when I compare a NovaTouch in its stock case with a NovaTouch in a Norbauer aluminum case. But we'll see.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 22 August 2017, 06:34:39
Most GMK sets are ugly.

This happens because group leaders rarely have the courage and taste to try new color combos, so, to justify the bad taste, they sell variations of already tried colorways.

Soon we'll have the miami dolch hyperfused in industrial IBM with olivetti secondary legends.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Tue, 22 August 2017, 11:55:38
Yes, well, there's no accounting for taste in this community...  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Skinjob on Tue, 22 August 2017, 18:21:01
Full Size and 96 Keys are my favorite layouts by far. Every time I see a full size board with a nice keyset it gets my vote.

I honestly think TKL is the smallest board I could ever actually use and I would 100% have a numpad separate above my mousepad. If I ever used a laptop or something that required me to lug around a board I might change my mind.

I've started into Artisans that are the proper shape for a keycap, but I really find shaped Artisans make me feel like it was hastily thrown into what was a well designed keyset, even when the colors match.


That being said I love LOOKING at the cool small form and ergo/split/nonsense keyboards you crazies come up with. I just know I'm that much more efficient on a big board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: volatilecoffee on Wed, 23 August 2017, 02:25:19
If you complain about wrist pain/fatigue/strain and buy a wrist wrest, you deserve to be euthanized.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 4sStylZ on Wed, 23 August 2017, 03:27:29
In the past I was suffering with some TMS issue.


The Wrist pad is under my hands, my elbows (and I often sit on them), my wrists. He provide me a very natural position on the keyboard.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51yUxJSACML._SX466_.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 23 August 2017, 05:17:38
The Grifiti Fat pads should be twice as tall, then we can talk.

Also, notice how the person in that photo has elbows in front of their body (wrong) and still bent wrists: slightly upwards in inwards (wrong).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 4sStylZ on Wed, 23 August 2017, 06:03:43
Also, notice how the person in that photo has elbows in front of their body (wrong) and still bent wrists: slightly upwards in inwards (wrong).

I just post the picture for illustrate the wrist-pad. I don’t have the same keyboard and the same position. Mine is natural.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 23 August 2017, 06:36:14
That's possible, but those pads make it rather harder than easier.

Even the fat model is about the same height as a typematrix (just tried), i.e., knuckles are still quite a bit higher than the rest. That's not neutral wrist posture.
(http://www.ergomatters.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/level_hand_position_sm.jpg)

The huge one is also almost forearm length (>20 cm). It might work with belly tucked towards the desk/tray, but it's a bit too much imho (especially for me, because I move around my standing desk).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sun, 27 August 2017, 05:12:31
In the past I was suffering with some TMS issue.

  • I have changed my layout → Less pain but still pain ;
  • I have swiched for a TypeMatrix → Less pain but still pain ;
  • I have tested a small Grifitti wrist pad → Less pain but still pain ;
  • I have a big fat ass Grifitti wrist pad → Almost no pain.

The Wrist pad is under my hands, my elbows (and I often sit on them), my wrists. He provide me a very natural position on the keyboard...

TMS? Are you actually referring to Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI)?

I don't know if you've heard about this, but there's clinical evidence now that much work-related wrist and arm pain isn't from physical injury, but is psychosomatic—created by the unconscious mind, in reaction to repetitive, unchallenging work. In other words, your brain gets so bored, it creates an impression of pain to express its frustration.

It sounds wild, but I'm not making this up. Here's an interesting story about it (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2342410/RSI-mind-say-experts-controversial-new-study--really-hurts-anyway.html) in the UK's Daily Mail.

There is a medical condition called TMS—Tension Myositis Syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension_myositis_syndrome). And that is, by its very nature, psychosomatic (created in the mind). So if that's really what you have, it would seem obvious that it's the kind of work you're doing, and not typing itself, that's causing the problem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sun, 27 August 2017, 16:05:05
Yes, Daily Mail is a reputable source. Oh wait, it isn't.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Sun, 10 September 2017, 11:20:40
I hate that 90% of the photos on r/mk are of HHKBs. They are ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sun, 10 September 2017, 12:27:13
I hate that 90% of the photos on r/mk are of HHKBs. They are ugly.

It's not just /r/mk. The "Post your Topre" thread here is the same. It's as if people actually think we've never seen an HHKB before. (And, no, throwing a random assortment of artisans on it does not make it more "special", just uglier.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sun, 10 September 2017, 22:27:08
I hate that 90% of the photos on r/mk are of HHKBs. They are ugly.

It's not just /r/mk. The "Post your Topre" thread here is the same. It's as if people actually think we've never seen an HHKB before. (And, no, throwing a random assortment of artisans on it does not make it more "special", just uglier.)


Thought I was alone on this sentiment. Waste of space, and bandwidth to show photos of the same boards, in the same colors, with the same key caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PollandAkuma on Mon, 11 September 2017, 00:08:38
Seems like my unpopular opinion is that DSA profile is great, and SA is too high. Oh, and also, topre is too heavy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JohanAR on Mon, 11 September 2017, 10:23:26
It's ridiculous that the vast majority of all keyboards made today have horizontally staggered rows just because mechanical typewriters - that haven't been used for decades - had some technical limitations
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Mon, 11 September 2017, 11:42:22
Seems like my unpopular opinion is that DSA profile is great, and SA is too high. Oh, and also, topre is too heavy.

I really like both DSA and SA. I think SA is fun to type on, but I'm type the fastest on DSA. Plus, I can put any key on any row with DSA, which is a nice plus.

I almost wish modern keyboards would do what IBM keyboards did: make every keycap the same profile but curve the PCB and Plate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 11 September 2017, 11:59:09
Yeah, curved backplates would be an interesting thing to bring back. Or angled stems. But since nobody is going to do either of those things, we're stuck with angled row profiles.

I would love to see DSA or XDA get sculptured row profiles as an option. I love SA (and MT3 to come), but a medium-height, sculptured, spherical keycap family would be awesome too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 11 September 2017, 12:46:54
SA is too high.

I definitely agree with this one.  I love how SA sets look, but I've sold all of mine because I just don't like the way they feel.  I sometimes get the sense that the SA hype started from pictures and most people haven't tried them yet to really know how they feel. 

I disagree with your other two comments though.  :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Tue, 12 September 2017, 04:55:43
Yeah, curved backplates would be an interesting thing to bring back. Or angled stems. But since nobody is going to do either of those things, we're stuck with angled row profiles.

Certainly agree on angled stems, but extreme examples like the Dactyl and Kinesis Advantage at least show that a board with cylindrical curvature would be technically feasible to manufacture. Could be pretty darn expensive, though. The question is of course whether there's a market for this, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _haru on Tue, 12 September 2017, 05:24:23
IMO the HHKB bottom-row layout is positively stupid. You're on a 60% with reduced usable space already, and for some reason you decide to block out positions for some of the keys???
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 12 September 2017, 05:48:06
IMO the HHKB bottom-row layout is positively stupid. You're on a 60% with reduced usable space already, and for some reason you decide to block out positions for some of the keys???

Did you know that HHKB was designed in early 1990s?
That it was partially based on even older Apple M0110?
That contemporary mainstream (IBM Model M) had gaps between Ctrl and Alt?

Probably not.

Now, you might argue that it doesn't matter in 2017, and PFU could have added extra keys later. Well, did you know that HHKB was designed "to stop key inflation"?

But PFU have added keys anyway, see Lite or JP models.

A better criticism would be about the size of the spacebar on almost every mainstream keyboard ever.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _haru on Tue, 12 September 2017, 07:28:49
Interesting. Didn't know that. I thought the HHKB was a relatively modern keyboard  :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 12 September 2017, 12:50:45
Interesting. Didn't know that. I thought the HHKB was a relatively modern keyboard  :-X

It is "modern" in that it's still produced and popular, but it does have a pretty lengthy history (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Happy_Hacking_Keyboard) for a production board. 

In addition to davkol's points, I'd add that from an ergonomic/usability perspective, keys in the bottom corners of a 60% board are often hard to hit and require some contorting/re-positioning of the hand.  I don't really feel like I lose any functionality with an HHKB, I'm just not hurting myself to reach ctrl anymore.  :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cribbit on Tue, 12 September 2017, 13:18:48
Interesting. Didn't know that. I thought the HHKB was a relatively modern keyboard  :-X

It is "modern" in that it's still produced and popular, but it does have a pretty lengthy history (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Happy_Hacking_Keyboard) for a production board. 

In addition to davkol's points, I'd add that from an ergonomic/usability perspective, keys in the bottom corners of a 60% board are often hard to hit and require some contorting/re-positioning of the hand.  I don't really feel like I lose any functionality with an HHKB, I'm just not hurting myself to reach ctrl anymore.  :P

Get an ergodox style board and join the thumb cluster master race.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Tue, 12 September 2017, 13:26:52
Ergonomic Truth #1: If you're hurting your fingers using a conventional keyboard, you're doing it wrong.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _haru on Tue, 12 September 2017, 17:38:10
Interesting. Didn't know that. I thought the HHKB was a relatively modern keyboard  :-X

It is "modern" in that it's still produced and popular, but it does have a pretty lengthy history (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Happy_Hacking_Keyboard) for a production board. 

In addition to davkol's points, I'd add that from an ergonomic/usability perspective, keys in the bottom corners of a 60% board are often hard to hit and require some contorting/re-positioning of the hand.  I don't really feel like I lose any functionality with an HHKB, I'm just not hurting myself to reach ctrl anymore.  :P

Good point. I prefer to have control where the left winkey is, each to their own I guess.

far out the hoffman replied to me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 12 September 2017, 17:50:30
Interesting. Didn't know that. I thought the HHKB was a relatively modern keyboard  :-X

it is a fork of the old Unix Sun 5 keyboard's main typing area.

(https://i.imgur.com/RzurxiU.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _haru on Tue, 12 September 2017, 17:53:03
Interesting. Didn't know that. I thought the HHKB was a relatively modern keyboard  :-X

it is a fork of the old Unix Sun 5 keyboard's main typing area.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/RzurxiU.jpg)


I see. The more you know!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Tue, 12 September 2017, 17:54:13
Scissor switch best switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 13 September 2017, 06:24:30
Interesting. Didn't know that. I thought the HHKB was a relatively modern keyboard  :-X

it is a fork of the old Unix Sun 5 keyboard's main typing area.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/RzurxiU.jpg)


Sun Type 3 (http://kbd.rzw.jp/membrane/sun_type3/), actually.

(http://kbd.rzw.jp/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Sun_Type3_01-300x129.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lepidus on Wed, 13 September 2017, 20:50:23
Random crap written above the arrow keys kills all the aesthetics of a custom.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PollandAkuma on Wed, 13 September 2017, 21:50:12
SA is too high.

I definitely agree with this one.  I love how SA sets look, but I've sold all of mine because I just don't like the way they feel.  I sometimes get the sense that the SA hype started from pictures and most people haven't tried them yet to really know how they feel. 

I disagree with your other two comments though.  :P
Though I say that, I'm starting to fantasise how it feels on linears... And the nice pictures aren't helping :-(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 13 September 2017, 23:26:20
Interesting. Didn't know that. I thought the HHKB was a relatively modern keyboard  :-X

it is a fork of the old Unix Sun 5 keyboard's main typing area.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/RzurxiU.jpg)


Sun Type 3 (http://kbd.rzw.jp/membrane/sun_type3/), actually.

Show Image
(http://kbd.rzw.jp/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Sun_Type3_01-300x129.jpg)


Uh! This one is even closer to the HHKB layout.Considering the evidence, all that buzz on Wada's involvement seems just like a legend.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: GGat50 on Sun, 17 September 2017, 02:08:46
Just joined so Hello. I hate Corsair keyboards. Bitten twice now have a pok3r.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Sun, 17 September 2017, 22:02:32
Random crap written above the arrow keys kills all the aesthetics of a custom.

I can see why every TKL looking the same in another color would, in fact, be an unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Sun, 17 September 2017, 22:03:34
Just joined so Hello. I hate Corsair keyboards. Bitten twice now have a pok3r.

Pretty popular opinion here that corsair Boards are pretty ****, good on you for the pok3r though. Was my 2nd mech and loved it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: obviouslygene on Tue, 19 September 2017, 02:52:05
Interesting. Didn't know that. I thought the HHKB was a relatively modern keyboard  :-X

it is a fork of the old Unix Sun 5 keyboard's main typing area.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/RzurxiU.jpg)


Sun Type 3 (http://kbd.rzw.jp/membrane/sun_type3/), actually.

Show Image
(http://kbd.rzw.jp/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Sun_Type3_01-300x129.jpg)


Uh! This one is even closer to the HHKB layout.Considering the evidence, all that buzz on Wada's involvement seems just like a legend.

as I was an ex Sun engineer, I feel right at home on the HHKB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 September 2017, 19:27:59
My distaste for the Sun layout has lasted longer than Sun Microsystems given Oracle's recent gutting.  Pity what happened.  Still not going to use Oracle Linux though.  Hell with that.  I'll gladly stick with RHEL. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: obviouslygene on Tue, 19 September 2017, 23:01:01
My distaste for the Sun layout has lasted longer than Sun Microsystems given Oracle's recent gutting.  Pity what happened.  Still not going to use Oracle Linux though.  Hell with that.  I'll gladly stick with RHEL.

I agree with you on that, but i'll like to not pay for mine. CentOS please!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 20 September 2017, 00:57:40
My distaste for the Sun layout has lasted longer than Sun Microsystems given Oracle's recent gutting.  Pity what happened.  Still not going to use Oracle Linux though.  Hell with that.  I'll gladly stick with RHEL.

I agree with you on that, but i'll like to not pay for mine. CentOS please!

I don't pay for mine either.  Work pays for it.  I just support it.

At home, sure, it's CentOS for server VMs and Fedora for desktop VMs these days. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: obviouslygene on Wed, 20 September 2017, 01:00:50
My distaste for the Sun layout has lasted longer than Sun Microsystems given Oracle's recent gutting.  Pity what happened.  Still not going to use Oracle Linux though.  Hell with that.  I'll gladly stick with RHEL.

I agree with you on that, but i'll like to not pay for mine. CentOS please!

I don't pay for mine either.  Work pays for it.  I just support it.

oh, im running centos at work too.
open source culture here...

At home, sure, it's CentOS for server VMs and Fedora for desktop VMs these days.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 20 September 2017, 01:14:20
My distaste for the Sun layout has lasted longer than Sun Microsystems given Oracle's recent gutting.  Pity what happened.  Still not going to use Oracle Linux though.  Hell with that.  I'll gladly stick with RHEL.

I agree with you on that, but i'll like to not pay for mine. CentOS please!

I don't pay for mine either.  Work pays for it.  I just support it.

At home, sure, it's CentOS for server VMs and Fedora for desktop VMs these days.
oh, im running centos at work too.
open source culture here...


For us at an OS level, it's not happening if there's no support.  Though we do have some documentation you can sign to get software installed that isn't supported nor provided by Red Hat or your app vendor.  It's not often that those docs get used.  Most of the requests for the non-standard software are by individual developers that want something non-essential.  Once they get told of the procedure, it's often the last we hear of it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Tue, 26 September 2017, 09:22:52
These are my cranky opinions, and I reckon this thread is the place for them.

Cheap-ass gaming keyboards:  Youtube is flooded with videos trying to sell the latest “cheap mechanical keyboard” to gamers.  They’re all pretty much alike; it’s all about creaky plastic and dazzling RGB lights and a race to the bottom on price, and each one is amazing and you gotta buy it (according to the reviewer).  They make me sick.  OK, I know I was never the intended audience for those products and videos, but still I get sick and tired of seeing them.

Genuine Authentic Cherry MX switches:  A lot of keyboard manufacturers and, apparently, keyboard shoppers (those cash-strapped gamers?) seem to think Genuine Authentic Cherry MX switches are the bomb, and cheap ass Chinese clones like Gateron and Outemu and Kailh are for losers.  I just saw a reviewer on YouTube griping about a cheap keyboard that came with Kailh switches instead The Real Thing.  Gaaaah!

Artisans:  Especially the big, lumpy, bizarre looking artisans…  I do not get them.  I mean, I guess there must be some reason for them to exist.  I see a lot of them around.  But I haven’t figured it out.  From where I sit they just make a keyboard ugly and more difficult to use.

Arrow keys:  It seems like there’s an ongoing trend to ruin compact layouts, especially 60%, by cramming and scrunching in arrow keys to the bottom right.  The result is always awkward and unpleasant; the bottom row modifiers are compromised, and sometimes the right shift key as well.  I do understand the conundrum, though.  60% is so small and cool and elegant, but losing the arrow keys is a pain point for a lot of folks.  I am working on a solution to this, but it'll be at least a couple of months before I can show off the prototype.   ;)

Windows keys:  Expensive GB keysets with the Microsoft trademarks and no alternative provided, I'm looking at you.  Then I'll have to beat the bushes looking for replacements that don't clash with rest of the set.

Winkeyless boards:  With no place for the Command keys or the Fn keys.  How can you even use something like that?

Base weights:  Elaborately machined piece of steel or brass slots into the bottom of the case, running up the cost and weakening the structure.  They do look sort of cool, if you spend a lot of time looking at the bottom of your keyboard.

Split spacebars:  It seems obvious to me that every keyboard should have a split spacebar.  I've wanted that for many years, and I could never understand why keyboard manufacturers don't make them.  (I've heard a rumor that patents and trademarks were involved.)  Give us the split spacebars already, dammit!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: digi on Tue, 26 September 2017, 10:13:07
Genuine Authentic Cherry MX switches are the bomb, and cheap ass Chinese clones like Gateron and Outemu and Kailh are for losers.

I agree!!! :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Tue, 26 September 2017, 10:31:01
These are my cranky opinions, and I reckon this thread is the place for them.

Cheap-ass gaming keyboards:  Youtube is flooded with videos trying to sell the latest “cheap mechanical keyboard” to gamers.  They’re all pretty much alike; it’s all about creaky plastic and dazzling RGB lights and a race to the bottom on price, and each one is amazing and you gotta buy it (according to the reviewer).  They make me sick.  OK, I know I was never the intended audience for those products and videos, but still I get sick and tired of seeing them.

Genuine Authentic Cherry MX switches:  A lot of keyboard manufacturers and, apparently, keyboard shoppers (those cash-strapped gamers?) seem to think Genuine Authentic Cherry MX switches are the bomb, and cheap ass Chinese clones like Gateron and Outemu and Kailh are for losers.  I just saw a reviewer on YouTube griping about a cheap keyboard that came with Kailh switches instead The Real Thing.  Gaaaah!

Not unpopular in this community, I believe almost everyone here thinks like that.

Artisans:  Especially the big, lumpy, bizarre looking artisans…  I do not get them.  I mean, I guess there must be some reason for them to exist.  I see a lot of them around.  But I haven’t figured it out.  From where I sit they just make a keyboard ugly and more difficult to use.

Quite divisive, though there is now a trend of artisans (like two-tone modifiers) that have normal profiles and only change the aesthetic of the board.

Arrow keys:  It seems like there’s an ongoing trend to ruin compact layouts, especially 60%, by cramming and scrunching in arrow keys to the bottom right.  The result is always awkward and unpleasant; the bottom row modifiers are compromised, and sometimes the right shift key as well.  I do understand the conundrum, though.  60% is so small and cool and elegant, but losing the arrow keys is a pain point for a lot of folks.  I am working on a solution to this, but it'll be at least a couple of months before I can show off the prototype.   ;)

KLE link, please? Sure, arrows on IJKL or WASD or ESDF or vim arrows on HJKL work, but there is certainly an advantage to not having to press two keys for navigating. An additional advantage about dedicated arrows is using Fn+Arrow for PgUp, PgDn, Home and End. Extremely intuitive and many know it from compact laptops, which are very similar to 60%-75% boards. All other solutions where these navigation keys were clustered around an Fn-activated arrow cluster on the alphas can be quite hard to learn. Quite a few people don't use right shift either, especially those that learned playing FPS on keyboards before proper typing.

Winkeyless boards:  With no place for the Command keys or the Fn keys.  How can you even use something like that?

Certainly agree when somebody is productively using Windows. Win+Arrows for docking and moving windows are so very useful, and Win alone for starting programs as well. However, when you're on Linux, there's a lot to customise, and you can have all that same functionality using Alt and other modifiers. Also, when moving Ctrl to Caps Lock, you can put Win where Ctrl was before and make a winkeyless build.

Base weights:  Elaborately machined piece of steel or brass slots into the bottom of the case, running up the cost and weakening the structure.  They do look sort of cool, if you spend a lot of time looking at the bottom of your keyboard.

I don't think any board with a weight like that shows weak structure. They are built like bricks anyway, insert or not. If you want to give people a choice about how heavy the keyboard is, weights make sense, and it is much cheaper to only put a brass insert inside an aluminium board instead of making the whole board from brass. And yeah, it does look pretty cool. Details don't only count where you see them, especially when talking about perceived quality.

Split spacebars:  It seems obvious to me that every keyboard should have a split spacebar.  I've wanted that for many years, and I could never understand why keyboard manufacturers don't make them.  (I've heard a rumor that patents and trademarks were involved.)  Give us the split spacebars already, dammit!

Absolutely. Though keycap sizes are a problem here, and profile as well. The typical convex spacebar profile is not commonly found for 2.75 or 2.25 keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 September 2017, 11:43:19
Artisans:  Especially the big, lumpy, bizarre looking artisans…  I do not get them.

I don't either. Most artisans look like those little toys you get from a Cracker Jack box. Why anyone would want to ruin the aesthetics of a perfectly good mechanical keyboard with those things is beyond me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Tue, 26 September 2017, 13:06:05
…seem to think Genuine Authentic Cherry MX switches are the bomb, and cheap ass Chinese clones like Gateron and Outemu and Kailh are for losers.

Not unpopular in this community, I believe almost everyone here thinks like that.

Not the impression I've gotten?  Most of the buzz I pick up is about Zealios or hybrids like "Gatistotles" or those new Kailh switches.  From my own experience, I find Outemu blues pleasing, and I was impressed by the Kailh BOX samples I've examined.  As for Genuine Authentic Cherry MX, they are high quality but also pretty difficult to distinguish from the better grade of clones now.

Quote
KLE link, please? Sure, arrows on IJKL or WASD or ESDF or vim arrows on HJKL work, but there is certainly an advantage to not having to press two keys for navigating. An additional advantage about dedicated arrows is using Fn+Arrow for PgUp, PgDn, Home and End.

I sense a contradiction here?

However, you are right in noting that it's a tough problem.  I'm not sure I want to show off my solution now and subject it to the Internet Peanut Gallery when nobody (including myself) has had a chance to actually test and use it.  Maybe it'll live up to my hopes, or maybe not.  I'm gonna build it just as soon as I get the components in hand.  I'll get back to you.

Quote
Quite a few people don't use right shift either, especially those that learned playing FPS on keyboards before proper typing.

Well, I learned to touch type by the book, and I'm not in the mood to re-learn now.  (Same reason I'm not getting a Keyboardio, even though they do look fantastic.)

Quote
Absolutely. Though keycap sizes are a problem here, and profile as well. The typical convex spacebar profile is not commonly found for 2.75 or 2.25 keycaps.

They do exist.  And if they prove too hard to source, they can be made.  3D printing has come a long way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 26 September 2017, 13:46:03
Yo, **** RGB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 26 September 2017, 13:58:17
Yo, **** RGB.

Very unpopular opinion here, someone stop this madman!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 26 September 2017, 17:28:17
Yo, **** RGB.

Very unpopular opinion here, someone stop this madman!

Yo, **** Waateva.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Wed, 27 September 2017, 11:35:19
Quote
KLE link, please? Sure, arrows on IJKL or WASD or ESDF or vim arrows on HJKL work, but there is certainly an advantage to not having to press two keys for navigating. An additional advantage about dedicated arrows is using Fn+Arrow for PgUp, PgDn, Home and End.

I sense a contradiction here?

However, you are right in noting that it's a tough problem.  I'm not sure I want to show off my solution now and subject it to the Internet Peanut Gallery when nobody (including myself) has had a chance to actually test and use it.  Maybe it'll live up to my hopes, or maybe not.  I'm gonna build it just as soon as I get the components in hand.  I'll get back to you.

Ah yeah I worded that badly. Point is, I don't need a second key for the arrows, and if I wanted to have the same system with Fn+Arrows I'd need to press three, and if I then want to use End, shift+Pos1 to mark a whole line, I'd actually need four.

Cool, I'm always interested in novel keyboard layout ideas!


Quote
Absolutely. Though keycap sizes are a problem here, and profile as well. The typical convex spacebar profile is not commonly found for 2.75 or 2.25 keycaps.

They do exist.  And if they prove too hard to source, they can be made.  3D printing has come a long way.

True, but then you're starting to have problems with texture and finish. For me, an SLS print would be too rough, same goes for non-finished FDM (though printing direction and material might help), and I'm pretty sure acetone-vapor finished ABS FDM prints would be way too shiny for my taste.

But yeah, they do exist, especially XDA has a good selection already. I guess this sort of thing will become more popular in the future :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 27 September 2017, 13:20:21

Arrow keys:  It seems like there’s an ongoing trend to ruin compact layouts, especially 60%, by cramming and scrunching in arrow keys to the bottom right.  The result is always awkward and unpleasant; the bottom row modifiers are compromised, and sometimes the right shift key as well.  I do understand the conundrum, though.  60% is so small and cool and elegant, but losing the arrow keys is a pain point for a lot of folks.  I am working on a solution to this, but it'll be at least a couple of months before I can show off the prototype.   ;)


Compact layouts are already ruined.  What's a little more between friends with some arrows crammed in?  Honestly, though, I think when the 60% boards started catching on, people jumped in only to realize later that they make a lot more use of their arrow keys than they originally thought.  At least, I recall seeing some comments on such.  Now the goal is to get at least some of the nav cluster back; hence the increase in 65% boards. 

Quote
Winkeyless boards:  With no place for the Command keys or the Fn keys.  How can you even use something like that?


Seems to at least partly be gamers that have a tendency to hit the Win key frequently or those that for some reason don't like the aesthetic and are willing to sacrifice added functionality for aesthetic.  Fortunately these groups are mostly harmless, finding their niche builds and old keyboards that suit their needs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 27 September 2017, 13:32:27
...I think when the 60% boards started catching on, people jumped in only to realize later that they make a lot more use of their arrow keys than they originally thought.

I'm the exception, I guess. I only use 60% boards with my iPad(s), and I don't use the arrow keys more than I expected. And for the limited use I get out of arrow navigation, FN+IJKL works quite well. My hands don't move from the home position, unlike arrow keys on a TKL or full-size board, which makes mixing arrow navigation with typing even more efficient.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Wed, 27 September 2017, 14:40:47
Seems to at least partly be gamers that have a tendency to hit the Win key frequently or those that for some reason don't like the aesthetic and are willing to sacrifice added functionality for aesthetic.  Fortunately these groups are mostly harmless, finding their niche builds and old keyboards that suit their needs.

I've been using primarily Macs here for a long time, so to me a proper bottom row is:
[control] [option] [command]   [space]   [command] [option] [control]

You may notice that the space bar is the only one of those that does anything when pressed by itself.  The rest are purely modifiers.  The idea of having something down there that will kick me out of the program I'm in just seems completely crazy.

I use Second Life a lot, with the Firestorm viewer running full-screen.  The camera viewpoint is controlled with the mouse and Option and Control.  If I'm running on Windows (and the Win key is where Option should be) then as soon as I reach for those familiar keys, BAM!  I was just kicked back to the Windows desktop.  It's infuriating.  Which is why I now have a vintage IBM XT keyboard on my gaming rig, and the Win key is mapped to Scroll Lock where I'll never hit it by accident.  (I also remapped Control to F10, so now Control and Alt/Option are roughly where they would be on a Mac, and it's all good.)

I do love me a fully programmable keyboard.


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jerue on Wed, 27 September 2017, 17:41:54

Genuine Authentic Cherry MX switches:  A lot of keyboard manufacturers and, apparently, keyboard shoppers (those cash-strapped gamers?) seem to think Genuine Authentic Cherry MX switches are the bomb, and cheap ass Chinese clones like Gateron and Outemu and Kailh are for losers.  I just saw a reviewer on YouTube griping about a cheap keyboard that came with Kailh switches instead The Real Thing.  Gaaaah!

I will only use Cherry MX switches. Way too many problems with just about everything else either with consistency, housings, etc. I'm a geezer with this sort of thing but I don't really care. I wouldn't really "rip" on a keyboard though for having something else than Cherry MX, it's not like a bait-and-switch or anything.


Winkeyless boards:  With no place for the Command keys or the Fn keys.  How can you even use something like that?

The layouts are from before Windows 95 was a thing and you had a real GUI to interact with. The main reason winkeyless boards are a thing is for compatibility with original Cherry corp keycaps. In mine (and the opinion of many others) they are the best around; GMK in a close 2nd. It also helps that aesthetically, custom winkeyless keyboards are just beautiful, e.g. 356CL. You might like Tsangan layout which is winkeyless but with 1u keys in between control/alt. With most keyboards being fully programmable it's easy to remap a windows key elsewhere. I only use winkeyless layout (or HHKB) ;)


Base weights:  Elaborately machined piece of steel or brass slots into the bottom of the case, running up the cost and weakening the structure.  They do look sort of cool, if you spend a lot of time looking at the bottom of your keyboard.

The opposite should be true (except for cost), and if done correctly can change the typing experience of the keyboard (with or without it).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 27 September 2017, 20:01:57
Base weights:  Elaborately machined piece of steel or brass slots into the bottom of the case, running up the cost and weakening the structure.  They do look sort of cool, if you spend a lot of time looking at the bottom of your keyboard.

In what world would a steel or brass weight compromise the "structure" of a mostly solid hunk of aluminum?

It changes the weight of the keyboard and the typing feel, it isn't just for looks usually. 

Do you own any KBs with a weight?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pabile on Wed, 27 September 2017, 22:18:09
Arrow keys:  It seems like there’s an ongoing trend to ruin compact layouts, especially 60%, by cramming and scrunching in arrow keys to the bottom right.  The result is always awkward and unpleasant; the bottom row modifiers are compromised, and sometimes the right shift key as well.  I do understand the conundrum, though.  60% is so small and cool and elegant, but losing the arrow keys is a pain point for a lot of folks.  I am working on a solution to this, but it'll be at least a couple of months before I can show off the prototype.   ;)

totally agree. 60% & 40% are cool and elegant but those dedicated arrow keys ruins it. spaceFn + IJKL easily solved the need for arrow keys on my daily partnumber-excel-copypaste workload.

Split spacebars:  It seems obvious to me that every keyboard should have a split spacebar.  I've wanted that for many years, and I could never understand why keyboard manufacturers don't make them.  (I've heard a rumor that patents and trademarks were involved.)  Give us the split spacebars already, dammit!

+1

no [2.25] [1] [2.75] split please.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Duckyreddy on Wed, 27 September 2017, 23:31:43
I don't like backlighting, no thanks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: domsch1988 on Thu, 28 September 2017, 08:29:56
Seems to at least partly be gamers that have a tendency to hit the Win key frequently or those that for some reason don't like the aesthetic and are willing to sacrifice added functionality for aesthetic.  Fortunately these groups are mostly harmless, finding their niche builds and old keyboards that suit their needs.

I've been using primarily Macs here for a long time, so to me a proper bottom row is:
[control] [option] [command]   [space]   [command] [option] [control]

You may notice that the space bar is the only one of those that does anything when pressed by itself.  The rest are purely modifiers.  The idea of having something down there that will kick me out of the program I'm in just seems completely crazy.

I use Second Life a lot, with the Firestorm viewer running full-screen.  The camera viewpoint is controlled with the mouse and Option and Control.  If I'm running on Windows (and the Win key is where Option should be) then as soon as I reach for those familiar keys, BAM!  I was just kicked back to the Windows desktop.  It's infuriating.  Which is why I now have a vintage IBM XT keyboard on my gaming rig, and the Win key is mapped to Scroll Lock where I'll never hit it by accident.  (I also remapped Control to F10, so now Control and Alt/Option are roughly where they would be on a Mac, and it's all good.)

I do love me a fully programmable keyboard.

While i agree on the position argument, you do realize that the Win key is indeed a modifier, do you?
First of all, in Desktop mode its a lot like Mac's Spotlight and Launchpad in one.
Tons of Functions are accessed with it. From opening apps from the taskbar to window managment. When you want to mainly use the keyboard in Windows, it will be used more than Alt or shift.
Caps Lock is a much better spot for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 28 September 2017, 09:38:09
I don't like backlighting, no thanks.

 ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 28 September 2017, 10:38:19
I don't like backlighting, no thanks.

It's fun to have for pictures but 99% of the time my backlight is off
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Duckyreddy on Thu, 28 September 2017, 13:29:53
I don't like backlighting, no thanks.

It's fun to have for pictures but 99% of the time my backlight is off

Exactly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Thu, 28 September 2017, 13:46:53
While i agree on the position argument, you do realize that the Win key is indeed a modifier, do you?
First of all, in Desktop mode its a lot like Mac's Spotlight and Launchpad in one.
Tons of Functions are accessed with it. From opening apps from the taskbar to window managment. When you want to mainly use the keyboard in Windows, it will be used more than Alt or shift.
Caps Lock is a much better spot for it.

I don't use Spotlight and Launchpad on my Mac either, they're pretty much worthless.

Anyhow, I only have Windows installed on my gaming/VR rig, which means to me Windows is primarily something I use to launch Steam.  To do anything productive it's either Mac OS or Ubuntu MATE.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 28 September 2017, 17:19:44
Seems to at least partly be gamers that have a tendency to hit the Win key frequently or those that for some reason don't like the aesthetic and are willing to sacrifice added functionality for aesthetic.  Fortunately these groups are mostly harmless, finding their niche builds and old keyboards that suit their needs.

I've been using primarily Macs here for a long time, so to me a proper bottom row is:
[control] [option] [command]   [space]   [command] [option] [control]

You may notice that the space bar is the only one of those that does anything when pressed by itself.  The rest are purely modifiers.  The idea of having something down there that will kick me out of the program I'm in just seems completely crazy.

I use Second Life a lot, with the Firestorm viewer running full-screen.  The camera viewpoint is controlled with the mouse and Option and Control.  If I'm running on Windows (and the Win key is where Option should be) then as soon as I reach for those familiar keys, BAM!  I was just kicked back to the Windows desktop.  It's infuriating.  Which is why I now have a vintage IBM XT keyboard on my gaming rig, and the Win key is mapped to Scroll Lock where I'll never hit it by accident.  (I also remapped Control to F10, so now Control and Alt/Option are roughly where they would be on a Mac, and it's all good.)

I do love me a fully programmable keyboard.


Honestly, boards that allow you to disable the Winkey are pretty nice in this regard.  That way the functionality is there when needed and disabled when not needed.

In my ideal config, either the Fn key is to the left of the space bar - Ctrl, Win, Fn, Alt, Space, Alt, Win, Ctrl - or they've got dedicated media keys accessible with the left hand so I can adjust/mute volume while gaming.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Thu, 28 September 2017, 21:47:33
I think winkeyless looks better, but I also learnt to adapt to it because I like my Model Ms. With autohotkey, I just remap all the winkey shortcuts to ctrl + alt + whatever. Then I use Ctrl + Esc for the start menu and Shift + F10 for the context menu. The only annoying thing about that is setting the autohotkey scripts to run automatically on boot up for every computer, and the autohotkey scripts don't work in RDP sessions.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: YoshiCaps on Sun, 01 October 2017, 10:52:30
Torpes are mush.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 05 October 2017, 10:05:39
Got my first ever keycap set out of the closet today.  Thick Ducky OEM PBT.

Remember these?
[attach=1]

They still feel great!  I think OEM might be my favorite profile for typing.

Makes me excited for the cubic set coming soon.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Thu, 05 October 2017, 12:07:14
Feh. Cylindrical is so boring. We hates it, Precious!  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Duckyreddy on Thu, 05 October 2017, 12:59:37
Got my first ever keycap set out of the closet today.  Thick Ducky OEM PBT.

Remember these?
(Attachment Link)

They still feel great!  I think OEM might be my favorite profile for typing.

Makes me excited for the cubic set coming soon.


Ducky PBT's, beautifully caps aren't they?
 I find OEM as my favourite profle for typing too, you either love it or hate it.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: typo on Fri, 06 October 2017, 00:11:24
I was a (original) deck fanboy. They could not sell it for $300. It got to $160 and they ceased production. Topre RGB quickly heading the same direction. List is $269. It sold for that. A few days ago there was a code for $179 but right now it is already $199. You would think these companies would think this through. I have a feeling the Topre RGB will cease production within 8 more months or less. My prediction. Yey I loved the Decks and dig the Topre as well. I guess I am the odd man out. More unfortunately I originally paid full price for both. I hoarded more of both but then at discounted prices. The Topre is GMK but as far as ABS goes it is not bad. They are switching all production to this case,switches and key caps. The end of Topre?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 06 October 2017, 00:27:52
Got my first ever keycap set out of the closet today.  Thick Ducky OEM PBT.

Remember these?
(Attachment Link)

They still feel great!  I think OEM might be my favorite profile for typing.

Makes me excited for the cubic set coming soon.


Ducky PBT's, beautifully caps aren't they?
 I find OEM as my favourite profle for typing too, you either love it or hate it.  :thumb:

I really do like every profile keycap I've ever tried.  Something about OEM is just comfortable though.  I think it's the cylindrical profile... its so comfortable you just want to leave your fingers on the home row :)

I still think fully sculptured SA is the bee's knees.  Especially on a nice smooth switch like these new Kailh switches (pro purple, box pale blue, and bronze), Gaterons (oooh, thick SAs on my gat greens are lovely), and the newly tooled Cherry blacks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kurplop on Fri, 06 October 2017, 05:39:11
Ergonomic Truth #1: If you're hurting your fingers using a conventional keyboard, you're doing it wrong.  :p
I agree that many issues related to typing comfort can be solved by changing technique. However, unless your arms are naturally tucked in like a kangaroo’s, the textbook style technique is uncomfortable for many people. If you had rsi, ra, cts, or similar, you’d understand. I admit that I can two finger hunt and peck better on a conventional board than my customs. I think if I could type with my hands floating above the keyboard like many do, I’d have less trouble. Unfortunately, my hands have lost much of their sensitivity and need to be pretty much anchored to home position for reference when touch typing.

I think I can safely say that people generally don’t spend many times as much money on an “ergo” keyboard to be trendy or special.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clappingcactus on Mon, 23 October 2017, 10:09:00
HHKBs and Novatouches feel identical to me.

Realforces, FC660Cs feel different and better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Azmodan on Mon, 23 October 2017, 10:18:56
I still do not understand the usefulness of a 60% keyboards, I at least need arrows. Also the excuse of space saving simply is invalid for me. If you do not have space for at least a ten-keyless, where is your monitor?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Mon, 23 October 2017, 10:27:54
I still do not understand the usefulness of a 60% keyboards, I at least need arrows. Also the excuse of space saving simply is invalid for me. If you do not have space for at least a ten-keyless, where is your monitor?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=benefits+of+a+60%25+keyboard (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=benefits+of+a+60%25+keyboard)

Obviously its a smaller board so theres more space on your desk for weeb action figures, fine tuned multimeters and $400 wee bits of plastic but it also reduces distance between your mouse hand and its respective nipple

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Mon, 23 October 2017, 10:41:41
I still do not understand the usefulness of a 60% keyboards, I at least need arrows. Also the excuse of space saving simply is invalid for me. If you do not have space for at least a ten-keyless, where is your monitor?

I came up with my own solution to the arrow key problem.

See here --> https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92199.msg2509763 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92199.msg2509763)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Mon, 23 October 2017, 10:50:18
i own and have used both types of WASD's keycaps, although i don't know which is which, the ones i bought first are a fair bit better than the newer ones, although both sets are completely rubbish 
it's neat that they offer customisation the way they do, and the keyboard itself is perfectly great, but the keycaps are just so bad that they ruin the keyboard they're on 
maybe you got lucky with yours and somehow got better keycaps, if that's at all possible

The ones I got last week are excellent.  I mean, yes...  They are thin ABS, and if you can't accept thin ABS then you aren't going to like them.  However, they are consistent in color, they aren't warped, the plastic molding is clean and sharp, and they fit snug on the stems with no looseness or wobble.  To me, that thin plastic lends a precise and responsive feeling to the key action.

If you put them on a cheap plastic gaming keyboard that already rattles like a drum, then of course they're going to make it sound even worse.  That's not the fault of the keycaps, though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Azmodan on Mon, 23 October 2017, 11:36:35
I still do not understand the usefulness of a 60% keyboards, I at least need arrows. Also the excuse of space saving simply is invalid for me. If you do not have space for at least a ten-keyless, where is your monitor?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=benefits+of+a+60%25+keyboard (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=benefits+of+a+60%25+keyboard)

Obviously its a smaller board so theres more space on your desk for weeb action figures, fine tuned multimeters and $400 wee bits of plastic but it also reduces distance between your mouse hand and its respective nipple

The "moving your arm less to reach the mouse" excuse make no sense! I work multiple hours in-front of the computer and never had that issue. Arms are still pretty functional, moving them is not that bad!!!  :p

Also desk space definitely not an issue, but I still like my desk empty and I do like big keyboards like the IBM Model M and the DELL AT101W.

What I am saying is that the 60% is something that does not apply to me neither I see any benefits to it, I am not saying that is not useful for other people/situations.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 23 October 2017, 11:47:45
I still do not understand the usefulness of a 60% keyboards, I at least need arrows. Also the excuse of space saving simply is invalid for me. If you do not have space for at least a ten-keyless, where is your monitor?

I used to think the same thing until I tried pairing up a board with an iPad. Anything larger than 60% is simply too wide and bulky. Anything smaller (like a 40%) eliminates too much basic functionality.

The arrows are provided with FN+IJKL (I have the Caps Lock key mapped to FN). In a way, this is even easier than the arrow keys of the nav cluster since I don't have to take my hands away from their home positions to use them. And using FN+IJKL is not really any more awkward than using Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V for copy/paste, and so on.

Moreover, with an iPad, I don't need F-keys or the other nav cluster keys, or a numpad, so a 60% strikes the perfect balance between size and functionality.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Mon, 23 October 2017, 12:30:24
Well, this is just my cranky (and maybe "unpopular") keyboard opinion, but…  To me anything bigger than 65% is an aberration.  60-65% is a normal sized keyboard, and the so-called 100% layout is merely a relic from the DOS era of the 1980s.

If you look at the early microcomputers, the Apple II, the Atari 800, the Ti99/4A, the Commodore 64, and even the original Macintosh in 1984, they all pretty much came with what we today would recognize as 60-65% sized keyboards.  Some Tandys also added a number pad, but it was mostly IBM that gave us the behemoth keyboard.

In those early days many computers were sold to businesses to run spreadsheets (Lotus 1-2-3) and databases.  If you're doing spreadsheets all day, or data entry all day, then a number pad is essential.  The nav keys were also important to heavy spreadsheet users.  These systems didn't have a mouse or drop-down menus either, so every function of the computer had to be controlled through the keyboard.  A lot of DOS programs leaned heavily on the F-keys for that.  That's the computing environment the Model F and Model M were designed for.

Now that era is long past, and nobody starting from scratch today would design something like that.  Most people can get by just fine without a number pad.  If you do need one, USB accessory pads are available everywhere; you can pick up a semi-disposable one at Wal-Mart for $8, and you can put it anywhere on your desk.  Likewise, the F-keys are no longer central to application control, and most people are OK with moving them to a Fn layer.

Taking away the nav keys, and especially the arrow keys, is a pain point.  However, there are a lot of different strategies for dealing with that.  The most obvious way is to just add them back in.  Thus we've seen 65% keyboards like the WhiteFox and Clueboard that have been very well received.

For true 60% keyboards those arrow keys can be put on Fn layers, there is SpaceFn https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51069.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51069.0), or what I did with the Zo64 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92199.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92199.0), or you can scrunch some actual arrow keys into the lower-right corner, or if you have one of those accessory numpads you can use it for navigation too.  (Remember Num Lock?)

So, to me the question becomes: What's the justification for a 75% or TKL or bigger keyboard?  What benefit does anybody really get from that?  Not much that I can see.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 23 October 2017, 13:11:44
When I am busy coding, I spend most of my time typing, not mousing. I use the arrow keys and Home/End (usually with Ctrl) quite a lot. Muscle memory has become such that I expect to find them in their standard nav cluster positions.

It's pretty much the same with the numpad. I am a touch typist, but I never really became comfortable with the numrow. I have an easier time pounding out numbers on a numpad and its ortholinear layout than I do the numrow keys. I'm no spreadsheet jockey, but it is nevertheless supremely annoying to reach for the numpad by habit and not find it there, like some amputated limb.

So if I am doing real work (i.e., using a desktop PC), then I expect to have a nav cluster and a numpad at my disposal. Their absence would be contrary to all my typing habits and muscle memory, built up over the course of nearly 40 years. Of course, non-touch typists and youngsters who think that thumbing away on their cell phone constitutes "typing" wouldn't understand my perspective.

It is also worth pointing out that the era of first generation micro computers like the early Apples, Commodores, and so forth only lasted for a handful of years, and when the IBM PC came along, it established the full-size keyboard as the de facto standard. You'll notice that every Windows PC sold in the world comes with a full-size keyboard. That layout isn't a relic, it is still the contemporary standard, and anything else is considered (by ordinary folks) a bizarre variant only fit for weirdos and Mac users.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Mon, 23 October 2017, 14:38:44
When I am busy coding, I spend most of my time typing, not mousing. I use the arrow keys and Home/End (usually with Ctrl) quite a lot. Muscle memory has become such that I expect to find them in their standard nav cluster positions.

After I built the Zo64, it took me about two or three days to get used to the new way of navigating.  I think it would have been even faster if I'd kept the arrow keys under my right hand instead of using the left, but I did want to be able to use them with one hand and without taking my right hand away from the trackball.

Quote
It is also worth pointing out that the era of first generation micro computers like the early Apples, Commodores, and so forth only lasted for a handful of years, and when the IBM PC came along, it established the full-size keyboard as the de facto standard. You'll notice that every Windows PC sold in the world comes with a full-size keyboard. That layout isn't a relic, it is still the contemporary standard, and anything else is considered (by ordinary folks) a bizarre variant only fit for weirdos and Mac users.

Uhh, I think if you check your facts you'll find it's not really like that at all.  That argument might have worked in the 1990s or even perhaps into the early 2000s, but the computing landscape has transformed since then.  The vast majority of "computers" these days don't even have a keyboard, because they're phones!  However, even if we move phones out of the picture, I think you'll find that the majority of computers sold don't come with a 100% layout keyboard—because they're laptops and tablets.

I just looked up some statistics on this (found here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/272595/global-shipments-forecast-for-tablets-laptops-and-desktop-pcs/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/272595/global-shipments-forecast-for-tablets-laptops-and-desktop-pcs/)).  In 2016 we saw worldwide sales of 174.9 million tablets, 156.8 laptops, and only 103.3 million desktop computers.  Sales of desktop systems have been in a slow, steady decline for years.  That means your supposed "contemporary standard" keyboard is now shipping with, at most, less than a quarter of new computers.  Even if we go a step further and arbitrarily scratch tablets out of the reckoning, your desktop PC is still a minority, only 40% of the total.

There's a reason why you can buy a USB numpad for $8 in Walmart.  That would never happen if everybody already had a 100% layout keyboard in front of them.  There's also a reason why even 100% keyboards are looking more and more like laptop keyboards, many of them using the same ultra-low-profile keys.  It's not because that design is lovely and wonderful, but it's because that's what more and more people are familiar with now from their laptops.  That's the standard now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Mon, 23 October 2017, 15:50:01
That and one more thing: those Function keys and all that was associated with IBM Common User Access on [IBM] PC… that's dead. Yes, Microsoft and others included some aspects of it into their UI guidelines, but it's been slowly disappearing for a long time. In the Apple world, it was a brief episode, which is gone, but even Microsoft has been replacing Function keys by tiny multimedia buttons on their very own keyboards for many years now. The overall trend leads towards 65% keyboards, sometimes with an additional numpad for specific use cases, but Function keys are essentially gone in favor of chords and gestures.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Mon, 23 October 2017, 17:03:03
I keep forgetting how laptops have basically taken over the computing landscape.

However, I don't know anybody who uses a laptop and doesn't use the laptop's keyboard (they don't need a mech board). Their expectations are met quite adequately by the builtin keyboard and its sh*tty chicklet keycaps and 0.5mm travel. Where I work, every desktop PC has a full-size keyboard attached, and they outnumber the laptop users at least 5-to-1.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: badziew on Mon, 23 October 2017, 19:18:41
However, I don't know anybody who uses a laptop and doesn't use the laptop's keyboard (they don't need a mech board).
I carry my Race 3 to work every day. Everyone gets issued laptops, with some rubber dome chiclet ****e or Logitech K120 nowadays. Separate keyboards can really fit in that landscape, as a lot of people use one or two additional monitors, and laptop is elevated on some kind of stand. Rare, but not totally nonexistent

In the Apple world, it was a brief episode, which is gone, but even Microsoft has been replacing Function keys by tiny multimedia buttons on their very own keyboards for many years now.
On most HP laptops, multimedia key functions are primary, and functions keys work with Fn. If you can reverse this in BIOS, good for ya. I have a HP 2-in-1 with keyboard case that offers no such option. This gets annoying quite fast :/
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Tue, 24 October 2017, 05:41:49
However, I don't know anybody who uses a laptop and doesn't use the laptop's keyboard (they don't need a mech board).

Pretty much everyone in the office I work at uses an external keyboard when working at their desks. Half of them carry that keyboard to meetings too, and plenty of those are mechs. Off the top of my head, I know about half a dozen people just on the same floor, who never, ever use the laptop's built-in keyboard (myself included).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Tue, 24 October 2017, 06:37:40
In the Apple world, it was a brief episode, which is gone, but even Microsoft has been replacing Function keys by tiny multimedia buttons on their very own keyboards for many years now.
On most HP laptops, multimedia key functions are primary, and functions keys work with Fn. If you can reverse this in BIOS, good for ya. I have a HP 2-in-1 with keyboard case that offers no such option. This gets annoying quite fast :/
Absolutely. It's been a trend ever since Windows Vista came out and accelerated around Windows 8-10.

Let's not forget that Lenovo even had a touchbar before Apple Macbook. But I mentioned Apple, because they adopted the Model M layout only with the Extended Keyboards and a few next generations, while Jobs was gone.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MGMorden on Tue, 24 October 2017, 10:10:15
Guess I'll throw in mine:

1. I hate small keyboards.  60% or TKL.  I don't particularly need Windows keys so the original 101-key layout is fine, but I need at least that layout. I will say that I have no use for multimedia keys though.
2. Linear switches are terrible.  Like, I might as well be typing on a rubber dome.  I prefer clicky switches, and can get by on regular tactile switches, but linear are a complete no-go for me.
3. I don't care about keyboard lighting.  I want indicator lights for NumLock and Capslock (Scroll-lock I don't care about - it's only ever on by accident), but other than that I don't look at the keyboard while I'm typing so I don't care about lights. 
4. Designer keycaps are mostly stupid looking to me.  I can go for the more subdued "professional looking" caps, but a bunch of off the wall colors and especially those sculpted caps look ridiculous.
5. Anything but QWERTY is stupid.  Once upon a time I even practiced DVORAK to the point where I could touch-type at about 40 WPM on it (my normal QWERTY speed is around 110 WPM), but that I realized that I was basically just needlessly punishing myself.  QWERTY isn't going away for general usage so I never am going to NOT be typing on QWERTY in certain situations, and so long as I regularly type on QWERTY I'm never going to get particularly fast at any alternate layout.  Regardless of how theoretically efficient a different layout may be, why bother if I'm still slower?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Tue, 24 October 2017, 11:53:39
Half of them carry that keyboard to meetings too, and plenty of those are mechs.

Oy veh.

I guess I'm lucky in that I don't ever have to take notes at the work meetings I attend. That would make me feel like I'm back in school or something.

Not a single person where I work has a need to carry an external keyboard anywhere. Producers and coordinators are typically the ones walking around with laptops, and only because they are "on the go" more than most. But the only thing they walk around with is the laptop. The whole point of such a device is that it comes equipped with its own keyboard so you don't have to walk around with other peripherals under your arm.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Glod on Tue, 24 October 2017, 12:36:48
Guess I'll throw in mine:

1. I hate small keyboards.  60% or TKL.  I don't particularly need Windows keys so the original 101-key layout is fine, but I need at least that layout. I will say that I have no use for multimedia keys though.
2. Linear switches are terrible.  Like, I might as well be typing on a rubber dome.  I prefer clicky switches, and can get by on regular tactile switches, but linear are a complete no-go for me.
3. I don't care about keyboard lighting.  I want indicator lights for NumLock and Capslock (Scroll-lock I don't care about - it's only ever on by accident), but other than that I don't look at the keyboard while I'm typing so I don't care about lights. 
4. Designer keycaps are mostly stupid looking to me.  I can go for the more subdued "professional looking" caps, but a bunch of off the wall colors and especially those sculpted caps look ridiculous.
5. Anything but QWERTY is stupid.  Once upon a time I even practiced DVORAK to the point where I could touch-type at about 40 WPM on it (my normal QWERTY speed is around 110 WPM), but that I realized that I was basically just needlessly punishing myself.  QWERTY isn't going away for general usage so I never am going to NOT be typing on QWERTY in certain situations, and so long as I regularly type on QWERTY I'm never going to get particularly fast at any alternate layout.  Regardless of how theoretically efficient a different layout may be, why bother if I'm still slower?

You joined geekhack to sh*t on everything? seems legit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MGMorden on Tue, 24 October 2017, 15:53:11
You joined geekhack to sh*t on everything? seems legit.

Not at all.  I joined to ask a question about stabilizers and there was a specific thread for this while I was reading others so I figured I'd participate in the spirit of the thread . . .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 24 October 2017, 16:04:37
I wasn't a fan of < fullsize for a while. Then I tried something that is near to 60% and it's not as bad as I thought. I kind of enjoy mx blue style switches though. Needs more bass.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Budman on Wed, 25 October 2017, 00:09:31
- Outemu Blue are better than MX Blue. They feel so similar (Maybe even a tad lighter? Hard to tell ) to MX Blues when going full speed but the click sound is better. Click is more a deeper/quieter click compared to annoying high pitched in the MX. Don't know about durability though.

- Lower profile/height of modern dome and scissor switches beat the full travel and height of mechanical keyboards. Tall keyboards and long key travel is a relic of the past. May be great for gamers who learn to not bottom out and speed of switch is needed, but typing speedy on these burn my forearms after a while. They should have shorter travel mechanical switches by now. (Although buckling springs didn't seem to bother my forearms that much, weird)

- I don't like any of the popular Cherry MX for long term. Blue too obnoxiously loud (though would probably take them if had to choose one); Browns might as well be Reds as tactile is so light; Greens too heavy; Clears are too elusive; Linear Red/Black/etc are for gamers.

- Romer-G has great potential. But only a few boards you can get them in and Logitech cheapness ruins them.

- Topre is WAY overpriced and hyped for what it really is... A DOME.

- No way on earth I would spend more for a keyboard than an i5 CPU
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 25 October 2017, 07:35:02
I prefer lower profile keycaps and shorter travel distance, but my typing form is a bit off so this may be why, since it seems to hurt my forearms when I type faster on taller profile keycaps with normal travel distance.

ftfy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 25 October 2017, 07:55:45

- Lower profile/height of modern dome and scissor switches beat the full travel and height of mechanical keyboards. Tall keyboards and long key travel is a relic of the past. May be great for gamers who learn to not bottom out and speed of switch is needed, but typing speedy on these burn my forearms after a while. They should have shorter travel mechanical switches by now. (Although buckling springs didn't seem to bother my forearms that much, weird)

- I don't like any of the popular Cherry MX for long term. Blue too obnoxiously loud (though would probably take them if had to choose one); Browns might as well be Reds as tactile is so light; Greens too heavy; Clears are too elusive; Linear Red/Black/etc are for gamers.

- No way on earth I would spend more for a keyboard than an i5 CPU

It is insane for someone with this "philosophy" on keyboards to be part of a community of keyboard aficionados.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 25 October 2017, 11:13:11

They should have shorter travel mechanical switches by now.

Blue too obnoxiously loud (though would probably take them if had to choose one)


Leslieann's "jailhouse blue" mod solves most of this by quieting the clicks, shortening the throw, and moving the actuation higher.

O-rings at the bottom complete the task.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 25 October 2017, 12:09:27
It is insane for someone with this "philosophy" on keyboards to be part of a community of keyboard aficionados.

It is definitely odd.

The appeal of mechanical keyboards (and tall, thick keycaps, especially sphericals) is that they harken back to a time when they were exquisite works of engineering in and of themselves. Modern keyboards are all victims of our disposable society where very little is made to last or made with much concern to quality or timeless design. Anyone who loves today's trends in (non-mechanical) keyboards couldn't possibly appreciate what makes mechanical keyboards so amazing. It isn't merely a difference in philosophy, but a limitation of perspective.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 25 October 2017, 12:16:36
It is insane for someone with this "philosophy" on keyboards to be part of a community of keyboard aficionados.

It is definitely odd.

The appeal of mechanical keyboards (and tall, thick keycaps, especially sphericals) is that they harken back to a time when they were exquisite works of engineering in and of themselves. Modern keyboards are all victims of our disposable society where very little is made to last or made with much concern to quality or timeless design. Anyone who loves today's trends in (non-mechanical) keyboards couldn't possibly appreciate what makes mechanical keyboards so amazing. It isn't merely a difference in philosophy, but a limitation of perspective.


Yet, most mechanical keyboard's features are plain non-sense, for someone that is happy with modern stock keyboards; it only remains, why people like that join places like this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 25 October 2017, 12:54:19
I don't get why you're acting so surprised. "Keyboards" is a very wide umbrella for various topics ranging from electrical engineering to collecting bizarre toy-like keycaps, from exploration of computer/typewriter history to the latest marketing fads, from hardcore subjectivism to HCI research,…
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 25 October 2017, 13:57:10
Sure, but 99% of what is discussed around here (outside of the Other Topics non-topic) relates directly to mechanical keyboards. Even artisans are pointless pieces of plastic if you don't have mechanical keyboards to put them on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 25 October 2017, 14:16:30
Depends on your definition of a mechanical keyboard.

If you aim to exclude rubber domes, you're arguably wrong, because (a) they have moving parts (= mechanical) and (b) they're sometimes discussed around here (and not only Topre/clones)… and some of them have MX-mount sliders, so that custom keycaps technically could be mounted on them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 25 October 2017, 14:32:42
I aim to include electro-capacitive rubberdomes, not exclude them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 25 October 2017, 14:51:01
Regardless of capsense. (And capsense itself absolutely isn't "mechanical".)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 25 October 2017, 15:00:54
Sure, okay.

But just because a key moves that doesn't make the board mechanical, not by the informal definition generally accepted by this community. There have to be boundaries somewhere or else this isn't a mechanical keyboard community anymore, but just a keyboard community.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 25 October 2017, 15:29:21
This community doesn't have any definition that isn't entirely arbitrary, while including keyboards other than those with mechanical-contact switches.

That's why I prefer to avoid the term (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Mechanical_keyboard).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Wed, 25 October 2017, 15:35:47
Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Budman on Wed, 25 October 2017, 22:04:57


Yet, most mechanical keyboard's features are plain non-sense, for someone that is happy with modern stock keyboards; it only remains, why people like that join places like this.

Hmm, Opps, I thought I was at a KEYBOARD forum... Not r/MechanicalKeyboards/, and this was a thread about UNPOPULAR keyboard opinions?

I get that mechanical keyboard afficionado's are the ones that tend to frequent forums but I really don't see anything in my opinions posted that completely ripped on mech's at all. I have tried so many different keyboards in past few years so I have earned an informed opinion. So let me clarify some of those statements as I don't want to offend the majority here (who buy and use expensive mechanical keyboards).

I really like mechanical keyboards very much. I completely get the fine tuned mechanical instrument part just as I have a few mechanical watches. My favorite would be buckling spring followed by a good Alps. I would prefer to use my Unicomp as a daily driver at home and at work, BUT overall, mechanical's end up being too tall for me and bulky (in full size layout I prefer). I don't want to have to rely on wrist rests to use them for lengthy typing. Plus the noise! So that is why I said I prefer the modern low profile even though I want a mech. I still keep an eye on mechanical's.

Regarding Cherry, I understand they dominate the mechanical market but having tried all four of the readily available switches, I don't see anything special. I quickly stated why. None of the blue/brown/linear MX & Clones stand out enough to make me want to forgo the tallness/noise to use daily over a good dome/scissor. The Outemu Blue almost did but after a few nights of my wife hearing it in her bedroom my point was solidified.

The Romer-G was like a better Brown to me. Quieter and felt more tactile. If Logitech could have better quality I might have kept the K840 I had recently and been a full time mech user. But again Dome/scissor just won out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JohanAR on Thu, 26 October 2017, 05:08:03

They should have shorter travel mechanical switches by now.

Blue too obnoxiously loud (though would probably take them if had to choose one)


Leslieann's "jailhouse blue" mod solves most of this by quieting the clicks, shortening the throw, and moving the actuation higher.

O-rings at the bottom complete the task.

There's also Cherry MX Silver and Kailh low profile switches as non-modded options
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Thu, 26 October 2017, 08:16:12
I would prefer to use my Unicomp as a daily driver at home and at work, BUT overall, mechanical's end up being too tall for me and bulky (in full size layout I prefer). I don't want to have to rely on wrist rests to use them for lengthy typing. Plus the noise! So that is why I said I prefer the modern low profile even though I want a mech.

I recall reading that, from an ergonomic standpoint, you should hold your hands above the keyboard rather than resting them on anything.

Also, I used a Unicomp for a couple of years, and it was a creaky and clunky beast—and soon after the warranty expired, so did the controller.  It got the job done, and I guess they're fairly priced, but they don't represent what a mechanical keyboard can be.

I blame much of the current trends in keyboards on Apple.  Under Steve Jobs they pushed for super-thin and ever thinner laptops with super-low-profile keys, and then they pushed laptop technology and components into their desktop systems, and they gave us desktop keyboards based on the same super-thin and flat design as their laptop keyboards.  And yet, human hands are optimized for working with three dimensional objects; it's what comes naturally to us.  Not poking at flat surfaces.

The other reason I personally am here is because I was able to design and build my own keyboard with a feature set that I wanted and nobody else was selling.  I got what I wanted, and it was a satisfying process that scratched a creative itch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Coffee on Thu, 26 October 2017, 08:29:54
-Topre is fun for gaming
-Favorite gaming keyboard is Realforce 87U 55g
-Topre is overpriced, but worth
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 26 October 2017, 09:32:17
The Romer-G was like a better Brown to me. Quieter and felt more tactile. If Logitech could have better quality I might have kept the K840 I had recently and been a full time mech user. But again Dome/scissor just won out.

Always been pleased with Logitechs build quality, but admittedly I have not owned a romer-g board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: psiclone on Thu, 26 October 2017, 10:39:27
I can't understand the love for Cherry switches.  I don't find them better than Gaterons or Kailhs.  In fact, I love Kailhs, because they feel solid and seem reliably consistent to me, but I hate that you can't put mods on them (like clips).

I also don't get the small keyboard thing...it's OK if it works for you, but I don't see the point of suffering through it unless you really are crammed for space.

Artisan keycaps have a place, I'm sure, but I find them nowhere near worth the money they tend to go for.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Thu, 26 October 2017, 10:45:35


Yet, most mechanical keyboard's features are plain non-sense, for someone that is happy with modern stock keyboards; it only remains, why people like that join places like this.

Hmm, Opps, I thought I was at a KEYBOARD forum... Not r/MechanicalKeyboards/, and this was a thread about UNPOPULAR keyboard opinions?

I get that mechanical keyboard afficionado's are the ones that tend to frequent forums but I really don't see anything in my opinions posted that completely ripped on mech's at all. I have tried so many different keyboards in past few years so I have earned an informed opinion. So let me clarify some of those statements as I don't want to offend the majority here (who buy and use expensive mechanical keyboards).

I really like mechanical keyboards very much. I completely get the fine tuned mechanical instrument part just as I have a few mechanical watches. My favorite would be buckling spring followed by a good Alps. I would prefer to use my Unicomp as a daily driver at home and at work, BUT overall, mechanical's end up being too tall for me and bulky (in full size layout I prefer). I don't want to have to rely on wrist rests to use them for lengthy typing. Plus the noise! So that is why I said I prefer the modern low profile even though I want a mech. I still keep an eye on mechanical's.

Regarding Cherry, I understand they dominate the mechanical market but having tried all four of the readily available switches, I don't see anything special. I quickly stated why. None of the blue/brown/linear MX & Clones stand out enough to make me want to forgo the tallness/noise to use daily over a good dome/scissor. The Outemu Blue almost did but after a few nights of my wife hearing it in her bedroom my point was solidified.

The Romer-G was like a better Brown to me. Quieter and felt more tactile. If Logitech could have better quality I might have kept the K840 I had recently and been a full time mech user. But again Dome/scissor just won out.

I agree with you on Cherry MX switches. The mainstream variants leave much to be desired. Reds are good for playing games, blues seem to be missing something I can't quite put my finger on, and browns the epitome of "meh".  I have not tried clears yet, but I have Zealios in one of my boards, and I must say they're very satisfying with the right keycaps.

That said, I have Gat Greens waiting for a build and MX Silent Blacks on the way as well to try. I'm hoping they're different enough from MX Blues and Reds to be enjoyable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Thu, 26 October 2017, 12:12:09
I blame much of the current trends in keyboards on Apple.  Under Steve Jobs they pushed for super-thin and ever thinner laptops with super-low-profile keys, and then they pushed laptop technology and components into their desktop systems, and they gave us desktop keyboards based on the same super-thin and flat design as their laptop keyboards.  And yet, human hands are optimized for working with three dimensional objects; it's what comes naturally to us.  Not poking at flat surfaces.

Yes, exactly.

I have been an enthusiastic Apple user, to one extent or another, since 1987, and I've loved many of their products. But the direction they've taken their keyboards leaves much to be desired. It is one case where I wish others in the industry didn't feel the need to mindlessly ape them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MGMorden on Thu, 26 October 2017, 20:36:07
The Romer-G was like a better Brown to me. Quieter and felt more tactile. If Logitech could have better quality I might have kept the K840 I had recently and been a full time mech user. But again Dome/scissor just won out.

Always been pleased with Logitechs build quality, but admittedly I have not owned a romer-g board.

I've got a K840 (the non-gamer more professional looking Romer-G board) and I'll agree that to a large degree they're like a better Cherry MX Brown.  I'm not all that big a fan of Browns to start with but they're tolerable - as are Romer-G's.  If you want tactility and don't want to make much noise then they're not a bad choice.  I've got my own office (though I do usually leave my door open) so the noise it somewhat contained.

As to build quality though I find Logitech amazing.  With a different switch like a White Alps or Cherry MX Green this K840 would be a darned near perfect keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Thu, 02 November 2017, 17:51:53
I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clappingcactus on Thu, 09 November 2017, 08:02:30
I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame :(

JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Thu, 09 November 2017, 08:42:25
JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

I had to look up JIS to figure out what you meant.  No, we don't need a gigantic spacebar, but IMO the answer is to split it.   -->  http://zobeid.zapto.org/image/keeb/Zo64-08.jpg (http://zobeid.zapto.org/image/keeb/Zo64-08.jpg)

I've also been fiddling around in KLE with a larger variant without the center Fn key, for those who are put off by such things.   -->  http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/b367774ecc015735a691aa8ad17d5900 (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/b367774ecc015735a691aa8ad17d5900)

Not sure I'm entirely happy with it yet, though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Thu, 09 November 2017, 11:32:28
I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame :(

JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Thu, 09 November 2017, 12:09:14
I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame :(

JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.

Right shift is cancer to begin with, so I really am ok with that being shrunk down. As for the left shift, I have never on earth had an issue with it. The size reduction is barely noticeable. The biggest qualms I have is the location of single quote. I love having double quote layered over the 2, because I can do it with one hand. But the single quote is in an awkward middle spot over the 7. It just takes some getting used to when going back and forth between ANSI.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Duckyreddy on Thu, 09 November 2017, 12:27:57
I love the 104 key layout for home, I know it's not popular in the community...
not the best for ergonomics either lol

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Thu, 09 November 2017, 12:38:06
I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame :(

JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.

Right shift is cancer to begin with, so I really am ok with that being shrunk down. As for the left shift, I have never on earth had an issue with it. The size reduction is barely noticeable. The biggest qualms I have is the location of single quote. I love having double quote layered over the 2, because I can do it with one hand. But the single quote is in an awkward middle spot over the 7. It just takes some getting used to when going back and forth between ANSI.

Size reduction? JIS is supposed to have an ANSI sized left shift, i meant it was too big and was missing a key.
The problem with the reduced right shift is that the additional key requires too much stretch, it should have been on the right side like on ISO.

Someone should make a JIS bottom row, ISO left shift and ANSI enter board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clappingcactus on Thu, 09 November 2017, 14:41:52
JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

I had to look up JIS to figure out what you meant.  No, we don't need a gigantic spacebar, but IMO the answer is to split it.   -->  http://zobeid.zapto.org/image/keeb/Zo64-08.jpg (http://zobeid.zapto.org/image/keeb/Zo64-08.jpg)

I've also been fiddling around in KLE with a larger variant without the center Fn key, for those who are put off by such things.   -->  http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/b367774ecc015735a691aa8ad17d5900 (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/b367774ecc015735a691aa8ad17d5900)

Not sure I'm entirely happy with it yet, though.

Splitting the spacebar is a solution derived from the problem. Nobody has more than one typing technique for the spacebar. Both your hands don't need a dedicated spacebar key.

I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame :(

JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.

Right shift is cancer to begin with, so I really am ok with that being shrunk down. As for the left shift, I have never on earth had an issue with it. The size reduction is barely noticeable. The biggest qualms I have is the location of single quote. I love having double quote layered over the 2, because I can do it with one hand. But the single quote is in an awkward middle spot over the 7. It just takes some getting used to when going back and forth between ANSI.

Size reduction? JIS is supposed to have an ANSI sized left shift, i meant it was too big and was missing a key.
The problem with the reduced right shift is that the additional key requires too much stretch, it should have been on the right side like on ISO.

Someone should make a JIS bottom row, ISO left shift and ANSI enter board.

Completely agree with that except recently I've been thinking that long left shift is nice to be able to reach across the keyboard efficiently.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Thu, 09 November 2017, 15:36:43
JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

I had to look up JIS to figure out what you meant.  No, we don't need a gigantic spacebar, but IMO the answer is to split it.   -->  http://zobeid.zapto.org/image/keeb/Zo64-08.jpg (http://zobeid.zapto.org/image/keeb/Zo64-08.jpg)

I've also been fiddling around in KLE with a larger variant without the center Fn key, for those who are put off by such things.   -->  http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/b367774ecc015735a691aa8ad17d5900 (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/b367774ecc015735a691aa8ad17d5900)

Not sure I'm entirely happy with it yet, though.

Splitting the spacebar is a solution derived from the problem. Nobody has more than one typing technique for the spacebar. Both your hands don't need a dedicated spacebar key.

I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame :(

JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.

Right shift is cancer to begin with, so I really am ok with that being shrunk down. As for the left shift, I have never on earth had an issue with it. The size reduction is barely noticeable. The biggest qualms I have is the location of single quote. I love having double quote layered over the 2, because I can do it with one hand. But the single quote is in an awkward middle spot over the 7. It just takes some getting used to when going back and forth between ANSI.

Size reduction? JIS is supposed to have an ANSI sized left shift, i meant it was too big and was missing a key.
The problem with the reduced right shift is that the additional key requires too much stretch, it should have been on the right side like on ISO.

Someone should make a JIS bottom row, ISO left shift and ANSI enter board.

Completely agree with that except recently I've been thinking that long left shift is nice to be able to reach across the keyboard efficiently.

I use the very right edge of left shift and the very left edge of right shift (unless I'm using it with the arrow or nav keys), so moving them around or shrinking them would affect me quite a bit. My only concern with a split spacebar is that I use my right thumb when typing but my left thumb when playing games.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 09 November 2017, 16:59:30
I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame :(

JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.
(https://i.imgur.com/exxzMWK.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Thu, 09 November 2017, 17:11:44
yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/exxzMWK.png)


O.O ... That's a great idea.
Are you trying to convince me to buy a JIS realforce?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: E3E on Thu, 09 November 2017, 17:33:51
O.O ... That's a great idea.
Are you trying to convince me to buy a JIS realforce?

Except that's more of an idealized layout and not how the layout is on a JIS realforce. I guess if you want to use software to remap it, then sure. I prefer ANSI, but I do have a few JIS models.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 09 November 2017, 17:44:57
The physical layout is copied from 91U. Does it require remapping? Sure, but that's a very simple job for xkb/PKL/hasu's converter… I wouldn't want to use default US QWERTY on an ANSI layout either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AMongoose on Thu, 09 November 2017, 18:03:15
Except that's more of an idealized layout and not how the layout is on a JIS realforce. I guess if you want to use software to remap it, then sure. I prefer ANSI, but I do have a few JIS models.

Yeah I realized, don't really have a problem with remapping and since all the keys stay in the same row you could even change the keycaps accordingly.

The physical layout is copied from 91U. Does it require remapping? Sure, but that's a very simple job for xkb/PKL/hasu's converter… I wouldn't want to use default US QWERTY on an ANSI layout either.

Have you used this? It looks great but upon second thought it might over use the index finger...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 09 November 2017, 18:17:08
I use a very similar layout on my Phantom.

If you think pressing a few extra key with index fingers overloads them, consider (1) how common respective symbols are, (2) how much you use your pinkies (shorter, weaker) for the same task on a standard keyboard, and (3) if you can't simply ignore those keys and type respective symbols differently (Compose/layers), in which case this layout provides you more accessible thumb keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Sun, 12 November 2017, 08:33:14
yes but it has a bad left shift AND a badder right shift.
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/exxzMWK.png)


O.O ... That's a great idea.
Are you trying to convince me to buy a JIS realforce?

This just feels like an amalgamation of too many different layouts. The num row is ansi, the and surrounding keys are semi iso/jis. I'd say the bottom row is the only thing truly ISO. The problem with layouts like these for me is the lack of physical separation from the middle punctuation and the alphas. I feel like I'd overshoot them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dante on Thu, 16 November 2017, 08:01:32
For whatever reason I'm starting to enjoy the look of piss yellowed keyboards  :-\
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: a_ak57 on Sun, 19 November 2017, 19:26:35
I can't say I understand the point of the fancy milled weights people put on the bottom of keyboards.  Like that Time TKL, the design is neat and all but you're paying more for something you will never see unless you're going to display it on-end and backwards or something.  I don't like most artisans but can at least understand their appeal, but I just can't wrap my head around the weight thing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 19 November 2017, 19:47:27
I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: a_ak57 on Sun, 19 November 2017, 20:01:51
I get the basic idea of having a weight, but some people put the effort into designing ones that no doubt drive up the cost due to extra milling.  I'm sure it's not always a huge amount, but I imagine it's a considerable price increase for something like the Time TKL.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sun, 19 November 2017, 23:34:26
For the nutters who buy that kind of stuff, it's satisfying enough just to know that fancy bit of carved metal is there, even if they don't see it. From their perspective, they've collected a piece of art. Hidden art, but art nonetheless. Also, since not that many of those Time TKL things will be made, the "limited edition" aspect of it makes its owners feel all warm and fuzzy and special, like they're part of some exclusive club.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 19 November 2017, 23:38:29
I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

untrue

it's completely an aesthetic thing

stability is more determined by the actual design of the board

clueboard and whitefox are two of the more stable boards i've used, whereas something like a jane or a fjell isn't remarkably better than either

i would argue plate mounting technique has more to do with the feel of the board than whether or not it has a weight
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nguyenhimself on Sun, 19 November 2017, 23:47:57
I can't say I understand the point of the fancy milled weights people put on the bottom of keyboards.  Like that Time TKL, the design is neat and all but you're paying more for something you will never see unless you're going to display it on-end and backwards or something.  I don't like most artisans but can at least understand their appeal, but I just can't wrap my head around the weight thing.

It depends on your mindset. For ex, Apple is known for spending extra time on making their unseen internals look neat and nice.

https://thenextweb.com/contributors/2017/11/19/how-to-prepare-for-the-cryptocurrency-revolution/

“For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.”
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 20 November 2017, 00:08:45
I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

untrue

it's completely an aesthetic thing

stability is more determined by the actual design of the board

clueboard and whitefox are two of the more stable boards i've used, whereas something like a jane or a fjell isn't remarkably better than either

i would argue plate mounting technique has more to do with the feel of the board than whether or not it has a weight

I'm not an architect nor am I an engineer but couldn't a brass weight serve as a tuned mass damper (Taipei 101)? Certainly not constructed to prevent nausia during a bad earthquake but perhaps custom keyboard weights could work in a similar manner on a much smaller scale?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iFreilicht on Tue, 16 January 2018, 05:13:24
I may have thrown this in here before... But JIS is an under-supported layout that has few decent key sets. Real shame :(

JIS is also the superior layout option. No one needs a gigantic 6-7u spacebar, people are just used to it.

Blasphemy! Any spacebar below 11u is absolutely unusable :mad:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dubious on Thu, 18 January 2018, 17:33:36
I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

untrue

it's completely an aesthetic thing

stability is more determined by the actual design of the board

clueboard and whitefox are two of the more stable boards i've used, whereas something like a jane or a fjell isn't remarkably better than either

i would argue plate mounting technique has more to do with the feel of the board than whether or not it has a weight

I'm not an architect nor am I an engineer but couldn't a brass weight serve as a tuned mass damper (Taipei 101)? Certainly not constructed to prevent nausia during a bad earthquake but perhaps custom keyboard weights could work in a similar manner on a much smaller scale?

I think those are usually mounted on springs or something that allows them to move, not bolted in rigidly

weights are best at being weighty
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 18 January 2018, 19:52:21
I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

untrue

it's completely an aesthetic thing

stability is more determined by the actual design of the board

clueboard and whitefox are two of the more stable boards i've used, whereas something like a jane or a fjell isn't remarkably better than either

i would argue plate mounting technique has more to do with the feel of the board than whether or not it has a weight

I'm not an architect nor am I an engineer but couldn't a brass weight serve as a tuned mass damper (Taipei 101)? Certainly not constructed to prevent nausia during a bad earthquake but perhaps custom keyboard weights could work in a similar manner on a much smaller scale?

I think those are usually mounted on springs or something that allows them to move, not bolted in rigidly

weights are best at being weighty

Kinda. In my head the theory somewhat applies to small vibrations. So there it is I guess.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dubious on Fri, 19 January 2018, 12:51:24
I think the custom keyboard weights are for stability and reduction of vibrations rather than pure aesthetic purposes

untrue

it's completely an aesthetic thing

stability is more determined by the actual design of the board

clueboard and whitefox are two of the more stable boards i've used, whereas something like a jane or a fjell isn't remarkably better than either

i would argue plate mounting technique has more to do with the feel of the board than whether or not it has a weight

I'm not an architect nor am I an engineer but couldn't a brass weight serve as a tuned mass damper (Taipei 101)? Certainly not constructed to prevent nausia during a bad earthquake but perhaps custom keyboard weights could work in a similar manner on a much smaller scale?

I think those are usually mounted on springs or something that allows them to move, not bolted in rigidly

weights are best at being weighty

Kinda. In my head the theory somewhat applies to small vibrations. So there it is I guess.

I agree it is a good point, I think it does help with stability and the feels :
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 19 January 2018, 13:41:06
Weights would change the mass of the keyboard, and therefore, the frequencies it resonates at, potentially making the keyboard sound better, but I assume weights are USUALLY used in keyboards to make them not slide around as much :)

The first possible reason above is similar to the reasoning for mass dampers, but a totally different mechanism. Mass dampers are weights suspended by springs which cause destructive counter oscillations, keeping the building stable. Bolting weight onto a keyboard would change the frequencies that the keyboard will resonate at, making the keyboard sound different to type on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 20 January 2018, 01:31:59
Weights would change the mass of the keyboard, and therefore, the frequencies it resonates at, potentially making the keyboard sound better, but I assume weights are USUALLY used in keyboards to make them not slide around as much :)

The first possible reason above is similar to the reasoning for mass dampers, but a totally different mechanism. Mass dampers are weights suspended by springs which cause destructive counter oscillations, keeping the building stable. Bolting weight onto a keyboard would change the frequencies that the keyboard will resonate at, making the keyboard sound different to type on.

bumpons do more to keep keyboards from sliding around than weights

and without weight, most boards are heavy enough to get the bumpons to do their job
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Sat, 20 January 2018, 02:26:08
Weights would change the mass of the keyboard, and therefore, the frequencies it resonates at, potentially making the keyboard sound better, but I assume weights are USUALLY used in keyboards to make them not slide around as much :)

The first possible reason above is similar to the reasoning for mass dampers, but a totally different mechanism. Mass dampers are weights suspended by springs which cause destructive counter oscillations, keeping the building stable. Bolting weight onto a keyboard would change the frequencies that the keyboard will resonate at, making the keyboard sound different to type on.

bumpons do more to keep keyboards from sliding around than weights

and without weight, most boards are heavy enough to get the bumpons to do their job
Maybe. I have light keyboards that do have issues with sliding around.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Sun, 21 January 2018, 22:59:48
I like the extra weight and solidity to the feel of a board with a weight. There's also just a coolness factor of knowing it's there.

Similarly, I have mechanical watches with decorated movements and solid casebacks. I will likely never see the movement, but I still like knowing there's some beautiful handiwork inside.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Mon, 22 January 2018, 12:11:40
ISO enter looks bad on fullsize and TKL but looks good on 60% and 65% for some reason.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Krogenar on Tue, 23 January 2018, 09:42:45
1. I love a large keyboard and don't see the attraction for tiny, nano-sized keyboards. Give me a 122-key tank, thanks.
2. LED Backlighting -- really? Is this a keyboard or a f---ing disco? Feels like one of those 80's boomboxes, kind of pointless.
3. Buckling Springs are better (for me) than Topre, MX, etc. They're all fine, but BS feels the best.
4. People should buy and sell keyboards at whatever price suits the two parties -- that helps the hobby overall.
5. They were really overplaying that 'Despocito' song on the radio, glad they finally eased up.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nogoodnames444 on Tue, 23 January 2018, 11:49:15
I like cherry linear switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Wed, 24 January 2018, 01:09:55
1. I love a large keyboard and don't see the attraction for tiny, nano-sized keyboards. Give me a 122-key tank, thanks.
2. LED Backlighting -- really? Is this a keyboard or a f---ing disco? Feels like one of those 80's boomboxes, kind of pointless.
3. Buckling Springs are better (for me) than Topre, MX, etc. They're all fine, but BS feels the best...

It's fun spotting a soul mate every now 'n' then.  :?)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Wed, 24 January 2018, 01:23:05
Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Wed, 24 January 2018, 05:49:00
Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.


(Attachment Link)

This is so obvious that makes me worry that I didn't take this hobby seriously enough. Would anyone decide differently from you? Really?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Wed, 24 January 2018, 06:58:49
Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.


(Attachment Link)

This is so obvious that makes me worry that I didn't take this hobby seriously enough. Would anyone decide differently from you? Really?
Natalie portman, the harvard graduate who also did this:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 24 January 2018, 07:47:38
Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.


(Attachment Link)

I mean, she isn't my type really, so I might not choose this. But you do you mane.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Wed, 24 January 2018, 08:05:07
I'd be a Space Cadet (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93140.0) not to, actually.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 24 January 2018, 08:13:13
Natalie portman, the harvard graduate who also did this:

My favorite part:

"When I was at Harvard / I smoked weed every day / I cheated every test / I snorted all the yay"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 28 January 2018, 22:31:42
Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.

What a ridiculous post.

As if any keyboard needs a coat and tie.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atarione on Sun, 28 January 2018, 23:29:58
some random gamer kid with a $30 red dragon thinks they are teh mechanical keyboard master race..

people with a $150 Filco kinda wish they have gotten a $500 Korean custom.. this hobby is stupid...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 29 January 2018, 13:40:47
1. I love a large keyboard and don't see the attraction for tiny, nano-sized keyboards. Give me a 122-key tank, thanks.
2. LED Backlighting -- really? Is this a keyboard or a f---ing disco? Feels like one of those 80's boomboxes, kind of pointless.
3. Buckling Springs are better (for me) than Topre, MX, etc. They're all fine, but BS feels the best.
4. People should buy and sell keyboards at whatever price suits the two parties -- that helps the hobby overall.
5. They were really overplaying that 'Despocito' song on the radio, glad they finally eased up.

Whoa, Krog is back!  :D 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bcredbottle on Mon, 29 January 2018, 13:46:29
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: WhateverZYX on Mon, 29 January 2018, 14:51:39
1. Tactility needs to be sharp and compact and not drawn out like Topre or MX Clears, or I won't even know the point where the switch actually actuates. Even if the MX Blues sound ****ty, the tactility is one of the best.
2. Linear switches may feel nice when trying out, but are completely unusable for typing.
3. There is not one vintage keyboard that actually looks acceptable, and which I would want to put on my table.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nogoodnames444 on Mon, 29 January 2018, 18:17:04
topre doesn't feel better to me but different
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Mon, 29 January 2018, 18:43:50
1. Tactility needs to be sharp and compact and not drawn out like Topre or MX Clears, or I won't even know the point where the switch actually actuates. Even if the MX Blues sound ****ty, the tactility is one of the best.
2. Linear switches may feel nice when trying out, but are completely unusable for typing.
3. There is not one vintage keyboard that actually looks acceptable, and which I would want to put on my table.

I agree with 1 and 2. Most tactile switches just feel bumpy and not really tactile to me. MX Blues just suck all around though. Linear switches are great for playing games and stuff, but I really tried to use linears at work, and it was maddening. I switched back to my Model M. Co-workers be damned.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevadu on Tue, 30 January 2018, 18:42:33
Here's one:

Plastic is a perfectly acceptable material to make cases out of.  Thick high-quality plastic can be quite durable and frankly produces a better sound than most aluminum cases.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Wed, 31 January 2018, 00:10:09
Here's one:

Plastic is a perfectly acceptable material to make cases out of.  Thick high-quality plastic can be quite durable and frankly produces a better sound than most aluminum cases.

I was thinking about this the other day myself. It would be neat to see a GB for a really high quality plastic case. I suppose the initial investment would be higher since it would require custom mold(s) instead of a multi-purpose CNC machine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Wed, 31 January 2018, 09:55:28
Here's one:

Plastic is a perfectly acceptable material to make cases out of.  Thick high-quality plastic can be quite durable and frankly produces a better sound than most aluminum cases.

Plastic cases can be quite good.  They also can be quite bad, and that's what gives them the reputation.  (I have a Phantom TKL with BOX Navy switches in a standard plastic Filco case right now, and it sounds awful!)  There's also a huge difference between, for example, a milled acrylic case and an injection-molded ABS case, even though they are both "plastic".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 09 February 2018, 00:42:41
Like most of you, I'm wacky about keebs. But if I had a choice between dinner with Natalie Portman and even the most outrageously rare MK—sorry, dudes, I'd be picking out a coat and tie.


(Attachment Link)

This is so obvious that makes me worry that I didn't take this hobby seriously enough. Would anyone decide differently from you? Really?
Natalie portman, the harvard graduate who also did this:
o.O

Ever get that feeling you are being watched?

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nogoodnames444 on Fri, 09 February 2018, 12:46:11
I guess some of these opinions aren't that unpopular. Just less heard in the keyboard community...

1) HHKB is overpriced
2) Topre fanboys are getting way too excited about a keyboard that feels like a smoother rubberdome
(I will say I'm in the camp that loves the HHKB layout. It made me change the ctrl/caps lock keys on all my keyboards)

3) Rainbow colored keyboards look cheap and childish
4) Artisan caps, see #3
I agree and I think people just like the feeling of a smooth rubberdome I have a type heaven and it feels good. But topre is way too overpriced
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Fri, 09 February 2018, 18:03:54
Topre is only overpriced for those who can't afford them without spending time pondering their "value".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 09 February 2018, 18:23:11
Topre is only overpriced for those who can't afford them without spending time pondering their "value".

I have keyboards worth far more than any Topre, but I still think it's overpriced. Subjective value of an item doesn't make an item pricier unless there is a limited supply. Topre would be priced far lower if people weren't willing to spend such high prices, similar to Blue Alps which are also way overpriced (even if they are subjectively one of the best clicky switches).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 10 February 2018, 00:29:09
Topre is only overpriced for those who can't afford them without spending time pondering their "value".

I have 5 Topre boards + a numpad and I think they're overpriced in terms of how much they should cost.

However, I understand that they are a bit niche so you don't get the economy scaling of volume mass-production much.

But it's also difficult to really say whether or not something is of good "value" since value can be pretty subjective. The average person would probably think any keyboard over $20 is poor value.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DaBubbs on Sat, 10 February 2018, 07:13:49
But it's also difficult to really say whether or not something is of good "value" since value can be pretty subjective. The average person would probably think any keyboard over $20 is poor value.  :rolleyes:
Very true and well put... although I would double your price to about $40.

I got just as many "why would you buy that?" comments from my friends and family about sub $80 keyboards as I have with my Topre boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sat, 10 February 2018, 11:53:36
Then don't dare tell them how much you paid for those artisans...  :eek:

This hobby can set you back a lot of money, and sometimes for the dumbest sh*t. Nothing is "overpriced" if you want it and can afford it. When somebody says a Topre Realforce board is overpriced, what they seem to be saying is that anyone who buys one got suckered, whereas what they are actually saying is that they are either unable to afford one, or unwilling to spend the money on one. That's a reflection of their personal circumstances, not a reflection of some objective truth about value.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 10 February 2018, 12:32:57
Then don't dare tell them how much you paid for those artisans...  :eek:

This hobby can set you back a lot of money, and sometimes for the dumbest sh*t. Nothing is "overpriced" if you want it and can afford it. When somebody says a Topre Realforce board is overpriced, what they seem to be saying is that anyone who buys one got suckered, whereas what they are actually saying is that they are either unable to afford one, or unwilling to spend the money on one. That's a reflection of their personal circumstances, not a reflection of some objective truth about value.

I don't necessarily think that people who buy Topre are being "suckered" into overpaying. On the other hand, I do think that Topre boards would sell for $50-60 if people weren't readily willing to spend hundreds on one. Like I said, "subjective value of an item doesn't make an item pricier unless there is a limited supply". I can say the same thing about products like a MacBook or gaming laptop. They are nice machines, but they are overpriced for what they offer, and that's coming from someone with both.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sat, 10 February 2018, 13:03:25
On the other hand, I do think that Topre boards would sell for $50-60 if people weren't readily willing to spend hundreds on one.

This is a consequence of a fundamental principle of capitalism: sell your product at the maximum price the marketplace will bear.

Topre has learned that they can sell their boards as premium products, at premium prices, and the marketplace will support that. It follows that their products are indeed worth what Topre is selling them for. The marketplace has spoken and told us this (and has been telling us this quite clearly for decades).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 10 February 2018, 16:45:13
Ok, I'll play.

I found the keyboards on Apple's laptops from ~2008-2016 to be pretty enjoyable to type on.

(The current 'touch bar' ones have awful keyboards though)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Sun, 11 February 2018, 00:08:07
Topre are overpriced, and yes I own one. The benefit is that you get a rubber dome while also getting key actuation without bottoming out. This 'superior key feel' crap is non-sense. I have proper rubber domes that feel better, like Monterrey dome with slider.

Don't get me wrong, the keyboard feels great and I would not complain if I had to use it, but I don't think the cost is worth it, but apparently, a lot of people do, because they can get away with it. I totally get why some people love it, but I also feel like that niche is being taken advantage of.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Sun, 11 February 2018, 10:37:00
I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sun, 11 February 2018, 11:35:30
I don't think the cost is worth it...

Did you buy yours at a deep discount or something?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Worthless_Owl on Sun, 11 February 2018, 11:43:09
AEK keycap profile is the best. I think nothing beat their texture and sculpt.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sun, 11 February 2018, 11:54:06
I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.
The layout is neither awkward, nor incomplete—within a certain context.

HHKB was designed ca. 25 years ago and was aimed at certain classic unix systems/software. It provided access to all necessary symbols/functions there, and the layout wasn't anything particularly new either (a mix of Apple and Sun Type).

There's nothing particularly wrong with rubber domes either, as long as they're implemented correctly, but that holds for any kind of mechanism.

I agree, though, that some aspects in the community are quite pretentious, and there are people showing off their keyboards (such as Happy Hacking Pro) with weird keycaps for the street cred.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 11 February 2018, 13:46:27
I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

I have two HHKB and I really like them in many ways, but absolutely the layout isn't as perfect as some people would have you believe.

I personally think the empty corners are prime real estate wasted. I would also have a second function layer that took care of the home/end/pgup/pgdown using the same primary keys as the arrows. I find them fairly difficult to use and I use them a lot.

The sound and feel is rather unique though and I still really like them (and I happen to love the look of the white/grey model).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Sun, 11 February 2018, 19:02:37
I don't think the cost is worth it...

Did you buy yours at a deep discount or something?
Nope. Just more spending money than sense I guess :) I was curious to see what the big deal was, but it seems I just figured out it was more of a status symbol, unless the person is just a rare breed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 12 February 2018, 11:11:23
I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout. 

Sure there are missing keys in the corners, but that's for ergonomics more than anything.  Better to use a function layer than contort your hands to reach the keys. 

Which legends do you find are missing?  I haven't encountered issues with that before. 

All that said, yeah, the layout isn't perfect and neither is the board.  But there is no such thing as a perfect layout anyway, so people find the best for their needs and go with that.  For many, that's the HHKB. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 12 February 2018, 12:39:21
I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout. 

Sure there are missing keys in the corners, but that's for ergonomics more than anything.  Better to use a function layer than contort your hands to reach the keys. 

Which legends do you find are missing?  I haven't encountered issues with that before. 

All that said, yeah, the layout isn't perfect and neither is the board.  But there is no such thing as a perfect layout anyway, so people find the best for their needs and go with that.  For many, that's the HHKB.


Layout wise, less is more. The empty spaces in the happy layout create two extra corners that make the keys at the four bottom corners easier to activate. I use variations of the happy layout and I really cannot get back to the traditional fully populated layout, without having issues to activate some keys; plus, the easier access to activate the backspace and the control keys. Also, it should be noted that corner keys at the bottom of the alpha layout in fully populated boards are very hard to reach from the home position.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TelFiRE on Mon, 12 February 2018, 19:45:32
DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Tue, 13 February 2018, 01:21:41
I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout. 

Sure there are missing keys in the corners, but that's for ergonomics more than anything.  Better to use a function layer than contort your hands to reach the keys. 

Which legends do you find are missing?  I haven't encountered issues with that before. 

All that said, yeah, the layout isn't perfect and neither is the board.  But there is no such thing as a perfect layout anyway, so people find the best for their needs and go with that.  For many, that's the HHKB.


Layout wise, less is more. The empty spaces in the happy layout create two extra corners that make the keys at the four bottom corners easier to activate. I use variations of the happy layout and I really cannot get back to the traditional fully populated layout, without having issues to activate some keys; plus, the easier access to activate the backspace and the control keys. Also, it should be noted that corner keys at the bottom of the alpha layout in fully populated boards are very hard to reach from the home position.

What's hard to reach is the forward-delete (FN+~), and kind of FN+K/, for Home/End.

I exceedingly rarely need the tilde ~ so to have it as forward-delete by default would be much preferable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Tue, 13 February 2018, 08:08:59
When I first saw the HHKB layout, I was actually a little disgusted by the waste of space, it was as if it was trying to make a statement rather than actually attempt to be compact yet functional. I much prefer the poker or whitefox 60% layouts. Having used the whitefox layout for a while, I still get annoyed by all the layering, and going for an efficient and compact solution, but then wasting space for aesthetics, rubs me the wrong way.

The way I look at it is, give people options. Let them put rare keys there if they want. It is much more difficult to do a f-key layer modification to get to a key than to have in those 'awkward' positions, imo. It is like it is trying to take away bad habits by force, as if they know better than me, and I don't like that at all. Reminds me of apple. Just my unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 13 February 2018, 08:32:41
I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout. 

Sure there are missing keys in the corners, but that's for ergonomics more than anything.  Better to use a function layer than contort your hands to reach the keys. 

Which legends do you find are missing?  I haven't encountered issues with that before. 

All that said, yeah, the layout isn't perfect and neither is the board.  But there is no such thing as a perfect layout anyway, so people find the best for their needs and go with that.  For many, that's the HHKB.


Layout wise, less is more. The empty spaces in the happy layout create two extra corners that make the keys at the four bottom corners easier to activate. I use variations of the happy layout and I really cannot get back to the traditional fully populated layout, without having issues to activate some keys; plus, the easier access to activate the backspace and the control keys. Also, it should be noted that corner keys at the bottom of the alpha layout in fully populated boards are very hard to reach from the home position.

What's hard to reach is the forward-delete (FN+~), and kind of FN+K/, for Home/End.

I exceedingly rarely need the tilde ~ so to have it as forward-delete by default would be much preferable.

Yes!  That's definitely a complaint I had as well.  I'm not sure how hard it is to come by these days, but hasu's HHKB controller can resolve this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Tue, 13 February 2018, 08:39:58
The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout.

I've been using primarily Macs for the last 20 years.  Ctrl is an almost un-used key on the Mac.  It's only used in the command line, and most people (including me) don't use the command line all that heavily.  Our primary key for application shortcuts is Command (⌘), which is found to the immediate left and right of the space bar.  Having a Command key on the right is important, because all the standard app shortcuts are on the left side of the keyboard.  They are ⌘-Q (quit), ⌘-W (close window), ⌘-S (save), ⌘-Z (undo), ⌘-X (cut), ⌘-C (copy), ⌘-V (paste).  Trying to hit the ⌘ key with the same hand as the shortcut key would be awkward.  Just like we use a Shift key with one hand to capitalize letters on the other hand, you want to use your right hand on ⌘ while pressing the shortcut key with your left.  Of course there can be shortcut keys all over the map, so it's nice to have Control-Option-Command on the left and Command-Option-Control on the right.  They are clustered all together (and under the Shift keys too), so it's easy to chord any combination of these keys, and you can do it with either hand to easily hit shortcuts on either side of the keyboard.  This is such a versatile, logical and natural system that I can only shake my head in dismay when I look at something like HHKB.  What in the world were they thinking?

Now I am in the process of moving to Ubuntu, but I find Mac keyboards work very well on Linux.  All I have to do is enter my keyboard layout options and swap the position of the Ctrl and "Win" keys.  Then I've got a nice familiar layout of Super-Alt-Ctrl on the left and Ctrl-Alt-Super on the right.  Ctrl does the same functions on Linux that Command does on a Mac.  Super/Win is basically unused by Linux, but I can configure all my personal shortcuts to use it, to switch workspaces, toggle fullscreen or minimize windows, without any worry about it conflicting with anything else in the system.  Again it's all logical and convenient, and it would all be harder on a HHKB.

As far as backspace is concerned, backspace belongs on the left half of a split spacebar.  For many years it has seemed obvious to me that all spacebars should be split, and backspace should be on the left.  It's not a new innovation either.  Erase-Ease™ keyboards were introduced in the 1990s.  Unfortunately, they were also trademarked and patented(!) at that time, which I believe is the only reason they didn't quickly take over.  The patent didn't expire until 2016, so maybe now this idea can finally start to make a comeback.

And here is what I'm building today → http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53eb271326a5e7a951cf8778208e9b5e
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 13 February 2018, 09:28:13
The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout.

I've been using primarily Macs for the last 20 years.  Ctrl is an almost un-used key on the Mac.  It's only used in the command line, and most people (including me) don't use the command line all that heavily.  Our primary key for application shortcuts is Command (⌘), which is found to the immediate left and right of the space bar.  Having a Command key on the right is important, because all the standard app shortcuts are on the left side of the keyboard.  They are ⌘-Q (quit), ⌘-W (close window), ⌘-S (save), ⌘-Z (undo), ⌘-X (cut), ⌘-C (copy), ⌘-V (paste).  Trying to hit the ⌘ key with the same hand as the shortcut key would be awkward.  Just like we use a Shift key with one hand to capitalize letters on the other hand, you want to use your right hand on ⌘ while pressing the shortcut key with your left.  Of course there can be shortcut keys all over the map, so it's nice to have Control-Option-Command on the left and Command-Option-Control on the right.  They are clustered all together (and under the Shift keys too), so it's easy to chord any combination of these keys, and you can do it with either hand to easily hit shortcuts on either side of the keyboard.  This is such a versatile, logical and natural system that I can only shake my head in dismay when I look at something like HHKB.  What in the world were they thinking?

Now I am in the process of moving to Ubuntu, but I find Mac keyboards work very well on Linux.  All I have to do is enter my keyboard layout options and swap the position of the Ctrl and "Win" keys.  Then I've got a nice familiar layout of Super-Alt-Ctrl on the left and Ctrl-Alt-Super on the right.  Ctrl does the same functions on Linux that Command does on a Mac.  Super/Win is basically unused by Linux, but I can configure all my personal shortcuts to use it, to switch workspaces, toggle fullscreen or minimize windows, without any worry about it conflicting with anything else in the system.  Again it's all logical and convenient, and it would all be harder on a HHKB.

As far as backspace is concerned, backspace belongs on the left half of a split spacebar.  For many years it has seemed obvious to me that all spacebars should be split, and backspace should be on the left.  It's not a new innovation either.  Erase-Ease™ keyboards were introduced in the 1990s.  Unfortunately, they were also trademarked and patented(!) at that time, which I believe is the only reason they didn't quickly take over.  The patent didn't expire until 2016, so maybe now this idea can finally start to make a comeback.

And here is what I'm building today → http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53eb271326a5e7a951cf8778208e9b5e

Ahhh, very good points all around.  I always forget these little differences for non-Windows users.  And personally I break the 'rules' of typing and always only use my left shift and left ctrl, so hadn't considered that factor either. 

That split space tidbit is pretty interesting - it's really hard to get people to buy a one-off oddball keyboard, since it's so different from what people are used to.  If a manufacturer really thinks the design is better, it's best to have as many other manufacturers adopt it as well to make it more prevalent and used.  But of course that's easier to say with hindsight.  ;) 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Tue, 13 February 2018, 16:00:03
The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout.

I've been using primarily Macs for the last 20 years.  Ctrl is an almost un-used key on the Mac.  It's only used in the command line, and most people (including me) don't use the command line all that heavily.  Our primary key for application shortcuts is Command (⌘), which is found to the immediate left and right of the space bar.  Having a Command key on the right is important, because all the standard app shortcuts are on the left side of the keyboard.  They are ⌘-Q (quit), ⌘-W (close window), ⌘-S (save), ⌘-Z (undo), ⌘-X (cut), ⌘-C (copy), ⌘-V (paste).  Trying to hit the ⌘ key with the same hand as the shortcut key would be awkward.  Just like we use a Shift key with one hand to capitalize letters on the other hand, you want to use your right hand on ⌘ while pressing the shortcut key with your left.  Of course there can be shortcut keys all over the map, so it's nice to have Control-Option-Command on the left and Command-Option-Control on the right.  They are clustered all together (and under the Shift keys too), so it's easy to chord any combination of these keys, and you can do it with either hand to easily hit shortcuts on either side of the keyboard.  This is such a versatile, logical and natural system that I can only shake my head in dismay when I look at something like HHKB.  What in the world were they thinking?

Now I am in the process of moving to Ubuntu, but I find Mac keyboards work very well on Linux.  All I have to do is enter my keyboard layout options and swap the position of the Ctrl and "Win" keys.  Then I've got a nice familiar layout of Super-Alt-Ctrl on the left and Ctrl-Alt-Super on the right.  Ctrl does the same functions on Linux that Command does on a Mac.  Super/Win is basically unused by Linux, but I can configure all my personal shortcuts to use it, to switch workspaces, toggle fullscreen or minimize windows, without any worry about it conflicting with anything else in the system.  Again it's all logical and convenient, and it would all be harder on a HHKB.

As far as backspace is concerned, backspace belongs on the left half of a split spacebar.  For many years it has seemed obvious to me that all spacebars should be split, and backspace should be on the left.  It's not a new innovation either.  Erase-Ease™ keyboards were introduced in the 1990s.  Unfortunately, they were also trademarked and patented(!) at that time, which I believe is the only reason they didn't quickly take over.  The patent didn't expire until 2016, so maybe now this idea can finally start to make a comeback.

And here is what I'm building today → http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53eb271326a5e7a951cf8778208e9b5e

Ahhh, very good points all around.  I always forget these little differences for non-Windows users.  And personally I break the 'rules' of typing and always only use my left shift and left ctrl, so hadn't considered that factor either. 

That split space tidbit is pretty interesting - it's really hard to get people to buy a one-off oddball keyboard, since it's so different from what people are used to.  If a manufacturer really thinks the design is better, it's best to have as many other manufacturers adopt it as well to make it more prevalent and used.  But of course that's easier to say with hindsight.  ;)

This is one of my largest qualms with OSX. Their reliance on a non-standard key (Command) is more a less a pain. Because I use my Mac so infrequently, I've largely given up on custom layouts. I primarily use i3wm, and the ability to write all my shortcuts and bindings is tremendously helpful.

What's worse is when you start developing on a Mac, and, in my case, use editors like Emacs. I often find myself in the situation of guessing whether the shortcut I'm looking for is Command or Control.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: synth-c on Sat, 10 March 2018, 17:12:34
The keyboard.io Model 01 should have had a plastic body instead of one made of wood. Wood is too heavy & expensive, and i'm terrified that it will crack at the slightest drop.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lemur on Sat, 10 March 2018, 18:50:03
some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.


I disfavor these people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 11 March 2018, 13:42:03
some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.


I disfavor these people.

That's normal for hobbies, though... especially ones involving products that can be highly customized (cars, motorcycles, etc).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Mon, 12 March 2018, 07:51:33
some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.

I put some of the blame on R/MK, which has a lot more activity than this site.  To get up-voted on R/MK you need a funny meme or a pretty photo.  If there's also a cat in the shot, then it's gold.  It's not such a good venue for deep discussions.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 12 March 2018, 08:37:29
some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.

I put some of the blame on R/MK, which has a lot more activity than this site.  To get up-voted on R/MK you need a funny meme or a pretty photo.  If there's also a cat in the shot, then it's gold.  It's not such a good venue for deep discussions.

Just don't say that on Reddit unless you want to be personally attacked.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ppp on Mon, 12 March 2018, 08:52:46
some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.

I put some of the blame on R/MK, which has a lot more activity than this site.  To get up-voted on R/MK you need a funny meme or a pretty photo.  If there's also a cat in the shot, then it's gold.  It's not such a good venue for deep discussions.

Just don't say that on Reddit unless you want to be personally attacked.  :rolleyes:

tbh, there isn't even a really great way to bring this up.
Bring it up in a post as a comment? It's off-topic.
Bring it up in a meta post? You might get a couple up/downvotes and some people saying that's just what the sub wants.
A lot of subreddits suffer from this where people just want to show off their stuff and real discussion is just too hard to want to read through everything.
You'll get a lot of small posts asking questions/garnering discussion but by and large they'll never reach the front page of the sub.
You gotta sort by new to see those but you'll also see a lot of boring stuff too.
That's why I go to reddit for pretty keyboards and geekhack for actual discussion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 12 March 2018, 09:01:06
Reddit is good for photos more than anything else, but I bring that up because it happened to me. Someone posted my eBay listing with MX Orange switches and I was getting attacked for being a "highway robber". I mentioned that I didn't like Reddit on Deskthority for something unrelated, and someone posted [their first and only post] on DT attacking me again for the same thing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: captsis on Tue, 13 March 2018, 04:48:08
some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.

I put some of the blame on R/MK, which has a lot more activity than this site.  To get up-voted on R/MK you need a funny meme or a pretty photo.  If there's also a cat in the shot, then it's gold.  It's not such a good venue for deep discussions.
Don't forget shoes and Geekwhack! To the top boys!11!1!1!!!1
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Thu, 15 March 2018, 03:12:18
I'm reasonably intelligent, and have been using computers since the dawn of PCs, and the Internet since the dawn of, er, the Internet. And I can't figure out how to use Reddit. You can sign up and have an account and everything—but then how do you reply to people's posts?

It always leaves me baffled—and it doesn't seem like Reddit themselves care very much about providing any clues. You're just supposed to figure it out, apparently.

So considering how popular it is, I guess this is an unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Thu, 15 March 2018, 03:26:05
I'm reasonably intelligent, and have been using computers since the dawn of PCs, and the Internet since the dawn of, er, the Internet. And I can't figure out how to use Reddit. You can sign up and have an account and everything—but then how do you reply to people's posts?

It always leaves me baffled—and it doesn't seem like Reddit themselves care very much about providing any clues. You're just supposed to figure it out, apparently.

So considering how popular it is, I guess this is an unpopular opinion.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]

I just chose these at random, but looking back... yep. Checks out. Typical reddit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dblack on Thu, 15 March 2018, 03:27:31
I'm reasonably intelligent, and have been using computers since the dawn of PCs, and the Internet since the dawn of, er, the Internet. And I can't figure out how to use Reddit. You can sign up and have an account and everything—but then how do you reply to people's posts?

It always leaves me baffled—and it doesn't seem like Reddit themselves care very much about providing any clues. You're just supposed to figure it out, apparently.

So considering how popular it is, I guess this is an unpopular opinion.

Click comments and type in the reply box, or if its an individual comment click rply under the text.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 15 March 2018, 09:54:23
I'm reasonably intelligent, and have been using computers since the dawn of PCs, and the Internet since the dawn of, er, the Internet. And I can't figure out how to use Reddit. You can sign up and have an account and everything—but then how do you reply to people's posts?

It always leaves me baffled—and it doesn't seem like Reddit themselves care very much about providing any clues. You're just supposed to figure it out, apparently.

So considering how popular it is, I guess this is an unpopular opinion.

You aren't missing much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 31 March 2018, 04:05:13
I can't use 40% and classic full-size (especially winkeyless) keyboards for the very same reason.

That might sound weird. A full-size is much larger and has all the keys, right? Well, not if they're in the wrong places.

I touch type with properly alternating hands for modifiers like Shift and all others. Placing a modifier only on one side doesn't cut it then.

What modifiers do I use?
2×7=14, what keyboard has that many modifiers?

My ErgoDox does. My 7bit Phantom does with some minor complaints.

IBM Model M (or pretty much any of its clones) doesn't. Neither does any 40% keyboard that I've seen.

(On a related note, I've recently decided against assembling even an Iris, because a pair of thumb keys looked a bit inconveniently placed.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Sun, 01 April 2018, 22:20:14
I touch type with properly alternating hands for modifiers like Shift and all others. Placing a modifier only on one side doesn't cut it then.

The 60% boards that I built might come fairly close to your preferences.  → http://zobeid.zapto.org/misc/zo65.html

I have a lot of history with the Mac platform, so I'm used to having Control–Option–Command and Command–Option–Control on the bottom row.  On a Linux system that translates easily to Super–Alt–Control and Control–Alt–Super.  Since Linux doesn't actually use Super for anything but can read and respond to it, that's perfect for assigning to all my own global shortcuts.  I don't have to worry about it conflicting with anything else in the system.

I don't have or need AltGr, but I did set up a dedicated Compose key which provides similar capabilities.

I only have one Fn layer.  I hadn't thought about putting backets on a layer, but it sounds like a good idea.

Oh, and by the way…  Windows drives me up the wall.  Not only is the Menu key utterly useless, but whose brilliant idea was it to make the Windows key kick me out of the program I'm running if I touch it?  I use Second Life quite a bit, and the modifier keys are used for camera control, which I use all the time, and the Windows key is right there on the bottom row with the other modifiers…  It's madness.  On my Windows machine I finally reassigned the (green) Compose key to be Windows, and made the Super key read as holding down Shift-Alt-Ctrl at the same time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Chevy_Monsenhor on Mon, 02 April 2018, 11:16:00
I really, really like my Lenovo Enhanced, i have it for over 5 years and i always come back to it.
I'm using it at my job right now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 02 April 2018, 11:52:16
I really, really like my Lenovo Enhanced, i have it for over 5 years and i always come back to it.
I'm using it at my job right now.

I really cannot see how this would be unpopular. If you like an off of the shelve keyboard, that's it. I have been a Thinkpad user for eons now and I always replace the keyboards that come with the system, or docking station, they are mushy and I cannot really type comfortably with them. But, that's me. I really use my mechanical keyboards almost always.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 02 April 2018, 11:54:21
Depends on who you ask. It would be unpopular among many in the Reddit crowd I'm sure because OMG IT'S RUBBERDOMEH [sic]. But I don't really care what anyone else uses, use what you want to use.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 02 April 2018, 12:00:41
Depends on who you ask. It would be unpopular among many in the Reddit crowd I'm sure because OMG IT'S RUBBERDOMEH [sic]. But I don't really care what anyone else uses, use what you want to use.

Of course. Being a rubber-designed board, it does not really relate with mechanical ones, right?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Chevy_Monsenhor on Mon, 02 April 2018, 14:24:52
Depends on who you ask. It would be unpopular among many in the Reddit crowd I'm sure because OMG IT'S RUBBERDOMEH [sic]. But I don't really care what anyone else uses, use what you want to use.

Of course. Being a rubber-designed board, it does not really relate with mechanical ones, right?

If you go far enough you can relate these keyboards to Model Ms, because they still retain the curved metal mounting plate to hold the membranes.
And its a decent rubber dome, i like it, but yes, whenever i can have a mechanical keyboard around, i will.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 02 April 2018, 14:34:37
By the way, if sound is the issue with mechanical keyboards in the office, there are numerous options these days. I currently use a Matias Laptop Pro with Quiet Click switches, but I've also used others like my Sharp X68000 with Alps SKCL Green which is relatively quiet compared to most mechanicals.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Chevy_Monsenhor on Mon, 02 April 2018, 16:44:48
By the way, if sound is the issue with mechanical keyboards in the office, there are numerous options these days. I currently use a Matias Laptop Pro with Quiet Click switches, but I've also used others like my Sharp X68000 with Alps SKCL Green which is relatively quiet compared to most mechanicals.

Not only sound but price and availability as well, i've been fantasizing about handwiring a 90%-esque keyboard with Matias switches for the last few days but despite being abble to do it, i lack the hardware to actually make it. Maybe one day i'll get around the idea.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 02 April 2018, 17:16:28
Yeah that makes sense. Good luck getting exactly what you want!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: emenelopee on Wed, 04 April 2018, 13:02:24
Miami keysets - I don't get the appeal but they're everywhere.

(http://imgur.com/9ghi14l.jpg)

Miami Nights is a set I covet and I'm bummed I missed the latest MD dump, but the regular Miami confuses.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 04 April 2018, 13:43:29
I touch type with properly alternating hands for modifiers like Shift and all others. Placing a modifier only on one side doesn't cut it then.

The 60% boards that I built might come fairly close to your preferences.  → http://zobeid.zapto.org/misc/zo65.html (http://zobeid.zapto.org/misc/zo65.html)
You know, I have other preferences too, such as making the keyboard as symmetrical as humanly possible in general.

This is a layout proposal (https://forum.colemak.com/topic/2187-jis-master-race/) based on Topre Realforce 91U that I always post, because of my insistence on the "extra-wide" mod enabled by JIS right Shift.
(https://i.imgur.com/jT3PLa6.png)

That's something I could use and perhaps slightly prefer to my Phantom. Otherwise, 80key ErgoDox it is.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ubslimpinn on Wed, 04 April 2018, 23:37:53
I can't stand when people say the HHKB is "extremely well made" or similar nonsense. I think this comes from a fetishization of Japanese products typical on reddit. The HHKB is, in reality, not that well made. Don't get me wrong, I love using my HHKB S. But for $300+, the case should actually fit (every HHKB I've seen has a gap on the corners), keys shouldn't whistle, the keys should be straight, and the spacebar stabilizers shouldn't rattle so much. These are basic design flaws that an actually well-made board wouldn't have--and that such an expensive board certainly shouldn't have.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 05 April 2018, 00:54:08
DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

I find uniform profile keycaps unusable. A couple of days ago I've tried some flat keycaps, and I've found it really annoying to reach the qwerty row, because I need to move the fingers much more. And DSA are horrible keycaps, they're made for people that are dead inside.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Thu, 05 April 2018, 07:24:16
You know, I have other preferences too, such as making the keyboard as symmetrical as humanly possible in general.

This is a layout proposal (https://forum.colemak.com/topic/2187-jis-master-race/) based on Topre Realforce 91U that I always post, because of my insistence on the "extra-wide" mod enabled by JIS right Shift.
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/jT3PLa6.png)

Well, that's different.  There are some interesting ideas, but I don't accept anything that makes me re-learn how to touch type!  (If I was willing to do that, I'd probably just get a Keyboardio anyhow.)  Also, your bottom row looks to me like a bit of a mess.  I'm not sure why, but for me the bottom row is what really gives a keyboard its identity.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Thu, 05 April 2018, 07:27:54
DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

I find uniform profile keycaps unusable. A couple of days ago I've tried some flat keycaps, and I've found it really annoying to reach the qwerty row, because I need to move the fingers much more. And DSA are horrible keycaps, they're made for people that are dead inside.

Do you have short fingers?

I don't honestly have much difference in my typing experience between different keycap profiles.  I can type on any of them without thinking much of it.  One thing that does annoy me is when there's no F and J homing bar, then I fumble around some.  Also the more I type on G20, the more I like it.  The wide, flat tops and rounded edges make them comfortable to type fast on, and I can rearrange them freely anywhere on the board without regard to rows.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 05 April 2018, 07:50:31
You know, I have other preferences too, such as making the keyboard as symmetrical as humanly possible in general.

This is a layout proposal (https://forum.colemak.com/topic/2187-jis-master-race/) based on Topre Realforce 91U that I always post, because of my insistence on the "extra-wide" mod enabled by JIS right Shift.
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/jT3PLa6.png)

There are some interesting ideas, but I don't accept anything that makes me re-learn how to touch type!

If you type using the standard finger-symbol scheme, the wide mod changes hardly anything but some punctuation and perhaps you'd have to use the other thumb for spacebar. That's it. Then you get a better wrist posture.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rayoui on Thu, 05 April 2018, 13:49:08
DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

I find uniform profile keycaps unusable. A couple of days ago I've tried some flat keycaps, and I've found it really annoying to reach the qwerty row, because I need to move the fingers much more. And DSA are horrible keycaps, they're made for people that are dead inside.

I hope you never have to use a laptop.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Thu, 05 April 2018, 16:20:23
DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

I find uniform profile keycaps unusable. A couple of days ago I've tried some flat keycaps, and I've found it really annoying to reach the qwerty row, because I need to move the fingers much more. And DSA are horrible keycaps, they're made for people that are dead inside.

I hope you never have to use a laptop.
I mean just build a keyboard for your laptop. Who cares about portability when you have feels  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 06 April 2018, 10:00:21
DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

I find uniform profile keycaps unusable. A couple of days ago I've tried some flat keycaps, and I've found it really annoying to reach the qwerty row, because I need to move the fingers much more. And DSA are horrible keycaps, they're made for people that are dead inside.

I hope you never have to use a laptop.

https://us.msi.com/Laptop/GT83VR-TITAN-SLI-6th-Gen-GTX-1080-SLI.html
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ppp on Fri, 06 April 2018, 11:46:39
DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

I find uniform profile keycaps unusable. A couple of days ago I've tried some flat keycaps, and I've found it really annoying to reach the qwerty row, because I need to move the fingers much more. And DSA are horrible keycaps, they're made for people that are dead inside.

I hope you never have to use a laptop.

https://us.msi.com/Laptop/GT83VR-TITAN-SLI-6th-Gen-GTX-1080-SLI.html

I vomited a little.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keylabskeycaps on Sun, 08 April 2018, 20:00:00
Ok, I'll play.

I found the keyboards on Apple's laptops from ~2008-2016 to be pretty enjoyable to type on.

(The current 'touch bar' ones have awful keyboards though)

Thank you! I actually love my 2009 macbook unibody keyboard. For scissor switches, they're honestly pretty good.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zappysnap on Wed, 11 April 2018, 11:51:30
Ok, I've got one.

Zelios are no better than Cherry Clears. (not that that's a bad thing)

I have had clears on many boards for a while, and decided to get a 60% with 78g Zelios, which felt the best in my switch tester of the weights. They did feel a little smoother, and maybe more tactile when on the switch tester.

Got my board done with the Zeals, and, well...it feels essentially the same as my 60% with clears. Probably a little smoother, but otherwise the same. I mean, that's fine...I really like Clears, but now I know that the price premium for Zelios over clears is just not worth it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nguyenhimself on Wed, 11 April 2018, 12:34:56
Ok, I've got one.

Zelios are no better than Cherry Clears. (not that that's a bad thing)

I have had clears on many boards for a while, and decided to get a 60% with 78g Zelios, which felt the best in my switch tester of the weights. They did feel a little smoother, and maybe more tactile when on the switch tester.

Got my board done with the Zeals, and, well...it feels essentially the same as my 60% with clears. Probably a little smoother, but otherwise the same. I mean, that's fine...I really like Clears, but now I know that the price premium for Zelios over clears is just not worth it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Isn't that the whole point of Zealio though? Off-the-shell no-hassle-required Ergo-Clear?
I personally find MX Clear too heavy for my fingers, and I don't have time to assemble Ergo Clear, so Zealio is just great
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 11 April 2018, 12:45:10
Isn't 78g pretty close to stock MX Clear? I was also always under the impression that the original intent for Zeal switches was to get Ergo Clears without all the hassle of spring swapping.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Chevy_Monsenhor on Wed, 11 April 2018, 13:14:30
Another pet peeve from me, i don't like MX Browns.
When i first joined keyboard communities on some forums i was accustomed to it seemed to the best switch around, the second coming of Christ, everybody praised it for one reason or another (either the "tactility", the sound or the weight).
I never really minded it much, since i was using Kailh Blues and Outemu Blacks at the time, but one day my friend bought a keyboard with Cherry Browns, we both hated it, he ended up returning and picking up the same keyboard but with Cherry Blacks.
First of all, the so called "tactile bump", which is just a speck of dirt on an otherwise linear switch, then the weight, waaaay too light for me.
I do have an Anne Pro with Gateron Browns, but the only reason i bought it is so that i can solder Gateron Blacks to it and sells the Browns with ease, since they are so popular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zappysnap on Wed, 11 April 2018, 13:22:58
Isn't 78g pretty close to stock MX Clear? I was also always under the impression that the original intent for Zeal switches was to get Ergo Clears without all the hassle of spring swapping.
It is. It's perhaps a touch lighter but I like heavy switches, so they feel better to me than 67, 65 or such. Still nice, but not $0.80 a switch nice.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zappysnap on Wed, 11 April 2018, 13:24:11
Another pet peeve from me, i don't like MX Browns.
When i first joined keyboard communities on some forums i was accustomed to it seemed to the best switch around, the second coming of Christ, everybody praised it for one reason or another (either the "tactility", the sound or the weight).
I never really minded it much, since i was using Kailh Blues and Outemu Blacks at the time, but one day my friend bought a keyboard with Cherry Browns, we both hated it, he ended up returning and picking up the same keyboard but with Cherry Blacks.
First of all, the so called "tactile bump", which is just a speck of dirt on an otherwise linear switch, then the weight, waaaay too light for me.
I do have an Anne Pro with Gateron Browns, but the only reason i bought it is so that i can solder Gateron Blacks to it and sells the Browns with ease, since they are so popular.
That's a pretty common opinion around here. There's no real tactility on MX browns, and they're a pretty crap switch overall.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 11 April 2018, 13:27:18
Another pet peeve from me, i don't like MX Browns.
When i first joined keyboard communities on some forums i was accustomed to it seemed to the best switch around, the second coming of Christ, everybody praised it for one reason or another (either the "tactility", the sound or the weight).
I never really minded it much, since i was using Kailh Blues and Outemu Blacks at the time, but one day my friend bought a keyboard with Cherry Browns, we both hated it, he ended up returning and picking up the same keyboard but with Cherry Blacks.
First of all, the so called "tactile bump", which is just a speck of dirt on an otherwise linear switch, then the weight, waaaay too light for me.
I do have an Anne Pro with Gateron Browns, but the only reason i bought it is so that i can solder Gateron Blacks to it and sells the Browns with ease, since they are so popular.

Not exactly an unpopular opinion. Plenty of people hate browns.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Wed, 11 April 2018, 14:58:32
Idk hate is probably a strong word.

Personally, I don't mind modern (pre-retooling) browns or blacks, they're just not particularly notable imho. I actually hold a similar opinion of Matias Quiet Click (even though they're at least damped quite well), which might be an unpopular stance by itself.

They're like most okay rubber domes: I have no problem using them and will tolerate them depending on keyboard layout.

Then again, my relative indifference towards most switches is probably unpopular in these circles.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: emenelopee on Wed, 11 April 2018, 18:42:07
WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ppp on Wed, 11 April 2018, 21:32:36
WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/
You just blew my mind
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nguyenhimself on Wed, 11 April 2018, 22:02:06
Isn't 78g pretty close to stock MX Clear? I was also always under the impression that the original intent for Zeal switches was to get Ergo Clears without all the hassle of spring swapping.
It is. It's perhaps a touch lighter but I like heavy switches, so they feel better to me than 67, 65 or such. Still nice, but not $0.80 a switch nice.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Let's say I need 80 Zealio switches for my custom build (plus some spares)

- So that's 80 x $0.8 = $64
- Compared to Cherry or Gateron or Box, so ah, 80 x $0.5 = $40
=> $24 difference :| And I don't need to spend time on switching springs.

Meanwhile, I spend about 8-10 times that on a custom aluminum case and brass plate.
I mean, c'mon :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Thu, 12 April 2018, 02:43:02
Meanwhile, I spend about 8-10 times that on a custom aluminum case and brass plate.
There's your other problem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nguyenhimself on Thu, 12 April 2018, 07:10:55
Meanwhile, I spend about 8-10 times that on a custom aluminum case and brass plate.
There's your other problem.

Where do you think you are, man? I'm not gonna feel ashamed for buying expensive keyboard stuff here of all sites 😆
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: emenelopee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 12:00:13
WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/
You just blew my mind

Hopefully in a good way. Reddit didn't like this suggestion. I should have posted a picture of a cat to soothe the controversy.

(https://i.imgur.com/NQQAIVo.jpg?1)

I guess this is a place for unpopular opinions though ...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dwasifar on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:07:06
I'm sure someone has already said this somewhere in the 82 pages of this thread so far, but I don't like backlit keyboards.  What's the point?  You shouldn't need to be looking at it while you're using it anyway.  Conversely, if you DO need to look at the keys, they should be readable without fancy lights.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: emenelopee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:24:58
I'm sure someone has already said this somewhere in the 82 pages of this thread so far, but I don't like backlit keyboards.  What's the point?  You shouldn't need to be looking at it while you're using it anyway.  Conversely, if you DO need to look at the keys, they should be readable without fancy lights.

Low light - I don't go for the flashing and lightshows, but if it's dark it's nice to see the letters and icons without needing other ambient lighting. Doubly so with glossy laptop screens that are harder to use with desk lamps and the like. It's like saying everyone should use blanks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ppp on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:25:33
WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/
You just blew my mind

Hopefully in a good way. Reddit didn't like this suggestion. I should have posted a picture of a cat to soothe the controversy.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/NQQAIVo.jpg?1)


I guess this is a place for unpopular opinions though ...

Dang that's a pretty cool layout.
I think people were probably thinking of gaming? Like I think that having cursor keys for coding/typing or whatever on esdf on a layer sounds cool but wasd makes it easier to reach mods..
Then again if you're a programmer are you really doing it right if you're not using vim keys? /s
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: emenelopee on Thu, 12 April 2018, 13:28:53
Then again if you're a programmer are you really doing it right if you're not using vim keys? /s

I can assure you I'm doing many things wrong. Doesn't mean I'm not right  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevadu on Thu, 12 April 2018, 14:38:40
Then again if you're a programmer are you really doing it right if you're not using vim keys? /s

I'm a programmer and a vim user and I hate those damn cursor keys.  Though really you should call them vi keys seeing how vim supports proper arrow keys just fine...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Fri, 13 April 2018, 14:06:10
Then again if you're a programmer are you really doing it right if you're not using vim keys? /s

I'm a programmer and a vim user and I hate those damn cursor keys.  Though really you should call them vi keys seeing how vim supports proper arrow keys just fine...

The VIM cursor keys make no sense because of their order. Using HJKL...

<LEFT> <DOWN> <UP> <RIGHT>  give you [back] [forward] [back] [forward], since the down arrow advances. I can't get used to this setup.

<LEFT> <UP> <DOWN> <RIGHT> would be much more natural as it pairs them in back/forward. I got used to this immediately.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 13 April 2018, 16:31:38
Then again if you're a programmer are you really doing it right if you're not using vim keys? /s

I'm a programmer and a vim user and I hate those damn cursor keys.  Though really you should call them vi keys seeing how vim supports proper arrow keys just fine...

The VIM cursor keys make no sense because of their order. Using HJKL...

<LEFT> <DOWN> <UP> <RIGHT>  give you [back] [forward] [back] [forward], since the down arrow advances. I can't get used to this setup.

<LEFT> <UP> <DOWN> <RIGHT> would be much more natural as it pairs them in back/forward. I got used to this immediately.

I use Space FN with arrow cursor keys mapped on IJKL and it works like a charm.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 13 April 2018, 16:41:29
One important thing about hjkl in vi is that they're not "arrows", they're "direction commands" that can be quantified, combined and repeated with other commands.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nguyenhimself on Fri, 13 April 2018, 21:01:34
I'm sure someone has already said this somewhere in the 82 pages of this thread so far, but I don't like backlit keyboards.  What's the point?  You shouldn't need to be looking at it while you're using it anyway.  Conversely, if you DO need to look at the keys, they should be readable without fancy lights.

I find it weird that there are people in this very forum who still think keyboards are just utilities and nothing more.
I don't buy red cars because red makes my cars go faster and safer. I just think red cars look more fun and exciting. Also, I like red, and nobody is gonna chane my mind on that.
Same idea here, man.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 13 April 2018, 21:28:54
I'm sure someone has already said this somewhere in the 82 pages of this thread so far, but I don't like backlit keyboards.  What's the point?  You shouldn't need to be looking at it while you're using it anyway.  Conversely, if you DO need to look at the keys, they should be readable without fancy lights.

I find it weird that there are people in this very forum who still think keyboards are just utilities and nothing more.
I don't buy red cars because red makes my cars go faster and safer. I just think red cars look more fun and exciting. Also, I like red, and nobody is gonna chane my mind on that.
Same idea here, man.

Truth be told: Keyboards are utilitarian devices. It just happens that these utilities are very important, for some of us.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dwasifar on Fri, 13 April 2018, 21:38:53
I'm sure someone has already said this somewhere in the 82 pages of this thread so far, but I don't like backlit keyboards.  What's the point?  You shouldn't need to be looking at it while you're using it anyway.  Conversely, if you DO need to look at the keys, they should be readable without fancy lights.

I find it weird that there are people in this very forum who still think keyboards are just utilities and nothing more.
I don't buy red cars because red makes my cars go faster and safer. I just think red cars look more fun and exciting. Also, I like red, and nobody is gonna chane my mind on that.
Same idea here, man.

Well, this thread is "Unpopular Keyboard Opinions."  Why would you expect it to contain majority views?  :)

I understand your opinion, though I don't share it, necessarily.  That's not to say I don't care about aesthetics, but my tastes are different.  "Fun and exciting" is not what appeals to me in a keyboard; to me, it feels like frippery.  "Clean, uncluttered, and retro" is more my taste.  My two main keyboards are Model M's.  I just bought a Cherry G80-3000, which is about as plain and basic as you can get, and if I put new keycaps on it, which I might, I'd be looking for PBT in an old-school typewriter or terminal design.  I'd really like to have a Model M silver label Industrial, but I can't justify the cost.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dwasifar on Fri, 13 April 2018, 21:59:09
I find it weird that there are people in this very forum who still think keyboards are just utilities and nothing more.

Truth be told: Keyboards are utilitarian devices. It just happens that these utilities are very important, for some of us.

I'll go along with that.  I'd prefer a keyboard not to be actively ugly, but my primary focus is always going to be on functionality.  How does it feel?  How well does it work for me?  Those are more important than eye candy.

The point's been made that backlighting aids functionality in low light.  Fair enough, if you're in that situation a lot.  But the only time I'm really in that situation is when using my laptop in bed after my wife has gone to sleep (like right now), and even with the dark-themed geekhack page up, the display still emits enough light to see the keys with the backlight off.  And again, I don't look at them anyway.  So while I guess I can see why someone might want backlighting in the specific situation of  a) Very low light and  b) Not a touch typist, that someone would not be me.

So I guess you'd probably class me as a basic utilitarian user, and not style conscious except in the "industrial design" sense of style.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: emenelopee on Wed, 18 April 2018, 01:17:51
Off-shelf builds. I just put together (mostly) a DZ60. It was a chore picking the correct component parts, a pain figuring out the positions of the switches and stabilisers in the swiss cheese pcb and universal plate, and the anodyne experience of the build. I was so uninvested I did it mostly standing up between other things.

Ground-up custom was much more fun and invigorating, and I learned a few things along the way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MajorKoos on Wed, 18 April 2018, 11:35:17
I've have 3 Novatouch keyboards and love them all.
Yesterday my 55g RF87U arrived in preparation of my Norbaforce build.
Feels exactly like an over-hyper rubber dome keyboard to me.
At least I have some spare domes from a NT so perhaps it's salvageable?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Darthbaggins on Thu, 19 April 2018, 22:27:18
WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/
You just blew my mind

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/
You just blew my mind

Just blew my mind as well, never even thought about it until it was mentioned and makes logical sense
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nguyenhimself on Thu, 19 April 2018, 23:05:38
WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

Eh I disagree.

If it's for gaming, home row doesn't really matter, and WASD is closer to the bigger CapsLock key, making it easier to feel without looking. Also, it's less stressful to move the ring finger from A to 1 or Tab (weapon switching and such).

If it's for normal computing, I guess it would be Fn/Hyper/Control+WASD with the Fn/Hyper/Control key being where the CapsLock is, in which case, same as above. WASD is closer to CapsLock than ESDF.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iaso on Fri, 20 April 2018, 00:27:47
Here are 3 of my popular opinions.

1. I never liked Buckling Spring.

2. Also there are plenty of rubber dome boards that are superior to some mechanical keyboards. (Not talking about Topre).

3. Spending more than $5 on a single keycap makes you an idiot. Spending more than $50 on one makes you ready for psychiatric care.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ppp on Fri, 20 April 2018, 08:55:22
WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

Eh I disagree.

If it's for gaming, home row doesn't really matter, and WASD is closer to the bigger CapsLock key, making it easier to feel without looking. Also, it's less stressful to move the ring finger from A to 1 or Tab (weapon switching and such).

If it's for normal computing, I guess it would be Fn/Hyper/Control+WASD with the Fn/Hyper/Control key being where the CapsLock is, in which case, same as above. WASD is closer to CapsLock than ESDF.

Gaming, I agree wasd is probably better because of the constant ctrl/shift usage, 123 num row, etc.

For normal computing, I feel like it shines for people who have a Fn layer on their left split space bar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Fri, 20 April 2018, 09:46:51
Just use ESDF. (http://use-esdf.org/)

Or IJKL, duh.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hervuli on Fri, 20 April 2018, 09:53:00
SDFC ftw.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 20 April 2018, 09:54:55
I'm failing to see how SDFC could be used without completely contorting your hand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hervuli on Fri, 20 April 2018, 10:05:01
I'm failing to see how SDFC could be used without completely contorting your hand.

usually C is hit with the index finger rather than the middle finger, which is a perfectly natural motion. the downside is then it's a bit awkward to use F and C simultaneously, but I've managed to train myself to use my middle finger on C if I need to do that. the upside is similar to ESDF, fingers on the home row and quicker access to more letter keys for additional key bindings.

probably there's no rational argument for SDFC over ESDF, but it's what I taught myself back in the days of OG Doom and these things are hard to unlearn :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Fri, 20 April 2018, 10:36:25
I'm failing to see how SDFC could be used without completely contorting your hand.

usually C is hit with the index finger rather than the middle finger, which is a perfectly natural motion. the downside is then it's a bit awkward to use F and C simultaneously, but I've managed to train myself to use my middle finger on C if I need to do that. the upside is similar to ESDF, fingers on the home row and quicker access to more letter keys for additional key bindings.

probably there's no rational argument for SDFC over ESDF, but it's what I taught myself back in the days of OG Doom and these things are hard to unlearn :)

So the same finger would be used for RIGHT and BACK? That wouldn't be natural at all.

The whole reason WASD and ESDF work well is because with 3 fingers for 4 keys, the FWD and BACK are the ones that share a finger as you would never use both at the same time. But you very regularly use LEFT or RIGHT with FWD and BACK.

I don't find ESDF works any better than WASD anyways because moving my pinky to use the QAZ keys is too slow for me, generally. I suppose it could get quicker if I stuck with it, but I haven't yet played an FPS that required more keys/buttons than was readily available with WASD.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 20 April 2018, 10:48:57
I could maybe see using a single row like ASDF or something but Altis basically gave my reasons for my hand contortion comment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 20 April 2018, 18:56:40
I will reserve my judgement. I remember when half-life came out(the original), it had this weird alien 'WASD' movement scheme, and I immediately rebound that garbage control scheme. Then one day after a reinstall, I was lazy and didn't rebind it, and then I learned what I was missing not using WASD. The rest is history. I am sure there are even better control schemes than this I just haven't forced myself to learn yet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vitalious on Sun, 22 April 2018, 15:06:07
I can't stand non-standard keyboard layouts. This is why I want to sell the Lightsaver V1 my friend gifted me and buy a full layout keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nguyenhimself on Sun, 22 April 2018, 20:51:52
I can't stand non-standard keyboard layouts. This is why I want to sell the Lightsaver V1 my friend gifted me and buy a full layout keyboard.

It's definitely a super personal thing. Ever since high-school my main computer has been MacBooks, which have a kinda-sorta-75% layout, so anything bigger than that looks gigantic to me.

(https://www.macheat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/MacBook-Air-Keyboard.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Sun, 22 April 2018, 22:15:18
I recommend a silicone protector to save your laptop when you spill your starbucks coffee in it. ;) jk

I am from a different time with different values regarding tech, so just ignore this old guy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nguyenhimself on Mon, 23 April 2018, 05:32:49
I recommend a silicone protector to save your laptop when you spill your starbucks coffee in it. ;) jk

I am from a different time with different values regarding tech, so just ignore this old guy.

It's weird that you feel the need to make fun of my working laptops and group me into a boring stereotype when I'm already here, at a mechanical keyboard forum. Guess I have to go buy an old Thinkpad right away to reaffirm my leetness  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: emenelopee on Mon, 23 April 2018, 09:50:26
You **** one goat, always a goat****er.

NB: this is a response to nguyen, not an unpopular opinion I'm sharing. And it was ONE TIME, jeez.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nguyenhimself on Mon, 23 April 2018, 11:51:00
You **** one goat, always a goat****er.

NB: this is a response to nguyen, not an unpopular opinion I'm sharing. And it was ONE TIME, jeez.

It's cool man. Just as most of us started from the bottom with crappy keyboards, it's perfectly fine for you to do the same in picking your perfect life partner  ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Tue, 24 April 2018, 02:22:56
I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout. 

Sure there are missing keys in the corners, but that's for ergonomics more than anything.  Better to use a function layer than contort your hands to reach the keys. 

Which legends do you find are missing?  I haven't encountered issues with that before. 

All that said, yeah, the layout isn't perfect and neither is the board.  But there is no such thing as a perfect layout anyway, so people find the best for their needs and go with that.  For many, that's the HHKB.


Layout wise, less is more. The empty spaces in the happy layout create two extra corners that make the keys at the four bottom corners easier to activate. I use variations of the happy layout and I really cannot get back to the traditional fully populated layout, without having issues to activate some keys; plus, the easier access to activate the backspace and the control keys. Also, it should be noted that corner keys at the bottom of the alpha layout in fully populated boards are very hard to reach from the home position.
Control and backspace are better placed, but you sacrifice the Fn position and make it awkward.  Also, using the arrow keys with the same hand you need to access the Fn layer?  I will say looks alone this is my favorite board- size, aesthetics of layout, and color schemes.  I don't own one but have considered it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ScottPaladin on Wed, 25 April 2018, 15:09:11
Man, I just don't get artisans.They're out of profile for the other keys. They're expensive. They ruin the look of a board. I just can't wrap my head around the appeal. Novelty legends on a regular key are cool, but I can't imagine having a little bumpy (usually convex) thing on my otherwise orderly keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: elcubismo on Wed, 25 April 2018, 15:13:23
Man, I just don't get artisans.They're out of profile for the other keys. They're expensive. They ruin the look of a board. I just can't wrap my head around the appeal. Novelty legends on a regular key are cool, but I can't imagine having a little bumpy (usually convex) thing on my otherwise orderly keyboard.

I agree. I appreciate the artistry but I'm just not that into molded caps. I do like blank artisans that are basically a regular cap with special colors or whatever, if it matches the colorway of the rest of the keyset.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 26 April 2018, 01:35:27
I think some artisans look good if they aren't overdone. I have a Warmaster for example that basically functions like a regular keycap. For example, a different color Warmaster below.

(http://i.imgur.com/lnbvNl0.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rich1051414 on Thu, 26 April 2018, 13:56:33
I recommend a silicone protector to save your laptop when you spill your starbucks coffee in it. ;) jk

I am from a different time with different values regarding tech, so just ignore this old guy.

It's weird that you feel the need to make fun of my working laptops and group me into a boring stereotype when I'm already here, at a mechanical keyboard forum. Guess I have to go buy an old Thinkpad right away to reaffirm my leetness  :rolleyes:
Guess you could say it is my unpopular opinion ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kiks64 on Fri, 27 April 2018, 23:08:07
I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.
I hate illuminated keyboards, especially with thick keycaps or when it's flashing  :eek:
I hate full-size keyboard as well as tiny ones without numbers and arrows.
I hate blank keys as well as unsuitable ones.
And of course I hate azerty keyboards, they do not even allow to type French correctly !  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Sat, 28 April 2018, 00:43:35
I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.
I hate illuminated keyboards, especially with thick keycaps or when it's flashing  :eek:
I hate full-size keyboard as well as tiny ones without numbers and arrows.
I hate blank keys as well as unsuitable ones.
And of course I hate azerty keyboards, they do not even allow to type French correctly !  :thumb:
Do you also hate underglow on boards like the KBD75?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Duckyreddy on Sat, 28 April 2018, 01:24:45
I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.

Agreed, talked to someone regarding this exact topic and apparently it's more ergonomic when sitted at a steeper angle lol
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: davkol on Sat, 28 April 2018, 04:15:15
I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.
Agreed, talked to someone regarding this exact topic and apparently it's more ergonomic when sitted at a steeper angle lol

Steeper negative angle.

Remind's me of the cevgar's idea to flip the keyboard (https://forum.colemak.com/topic/1963-closer-mouse-wider-home-position-better-editingnavigation-flip-it/) btw.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kiks64 on Sat, 28 April 2018, 07:14:40
Do you also hate underglow on boards like the KBD75?

I don't really find it ugly, but in general I prefer not to have lights in my computer  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 April 2018, 15:25:19
I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.

Agreed, talked to someone regarding this exact topic and apparently it's more ergonomic when sitted at a steeper angle lol

It's best to have wrists in a natural straight position.

So depending on your desk height, you may want it flat or raised to keep your wrists neutral. If the keyboard is high relative to your elbows, you'll probably want to raise the keyboard feet to match the angle with your forearm.

By the same token, it's best to avoid having the keyboard too close.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Duckyreddy on Sat, 28 April 2018, 15:44:40
I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.

Agreed, talked to someone regarding this exact topic and apparently it's more ergonomic when sitted at a steeper angle lol

It's best to have wrists in a natural straight position.

So depending on your desk height, you may want it flat or raised to keep your wrists neutral. If the keyboard is high relative to your elbows, you'll probably want to raise the keyboard feet to match the angle with your forearm.

By the same token, it's best to avoid having the keyboard too close.

I try to keep my wrist as leveled as possible, I found that swapping to lower keycaps (Cherry & DSA) actually made it way more comfortable for my wrists (when compared to something like SA or even OEM) SA looks real sweet though but maybe just not for long term typing, not for me at least.

Thank you for the ergonomic correction haha, I think I have the keyboard too close  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 28 April 2018, 20:39:16
It's best to have wrists in a natural straight position.

So depending on your desk height, you may want it flat or raised to keep your wrists neutral. If the keyboard is high relative to your elbows, you'll probably want to raise the keyboard feet to match the angle with your forearm.

By the same token, it's best to avoid having the keyboard too close.

This is the correct answer. Regardless of your desk height, however, the TRUE way to ensure the least amount of wrist stress, is to have a split keyboard. This ensures your wrists are straight in comparison to your forearms and not twisted at an angle outwards like they are with normal rectangular boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 29 April 2018, 00:32:08
It's best to have wrists in a natural straight position.

So depending on your desk height, you may want it flat or raised to keep your wrists neutral. If the keyboard is high relative to your elbows, you'll probably want to raise the keyboard feet to match the angle with your forearm.

By the same token, it's best to avoid having the keyboard too close.

This is the correct answer. Regardless of your desk height, however, the TRUE way to ensure the least amount of wrist stress, is to have a split keyboard. This ensures your wrists are straight in comparison to your forearms and not twisted at an angle outwards like they are with normal rectangular boards.

Indeed. However, if you don't have a split keyboard (or two identical small keyboards, which I can confirm works  :cool: ), at least moving the keyboard further away reduces the lateral angle of the wrist. Keeping your elbows fairly tight will also help assuming you aren't stressing your shoulders to do so.

Best case: Buy two HHKBs and use one in each hand.  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Thu, 27 September 2018, 20:35:03
SA Carbon looks like a toy. I bought it and tried to like it, but the colors are just too bright and shiny.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Fri, 19 October 2018, 03:50:59
i literally created an account just so i can rage in this thread.  thank you geekhack.

Same.

--

The best layout is Model F AT layout with ISO Enter. "Navpad" is useless since ever, because it's integrated into the numpad.

Cross arrows are better than T arrows.

F keys should be use more often. For example, PrtScr should be removed altogether and replaced with, say, F4.

Especially if you touch type, a 5,5u (on the Chicony I'm typing now) spacebar is not really needed. Touch typists need a 3u spacebar at best.

ISO > ANSI. Do you Americans need a big backslash key right above the Enter?

Pad/silkscreen-printed PBT keycaps should be the norm.

"Modern" pad printing doesn't wear off as fast as people think. Or at least it wears off slower than the plastic on the keycap. Most of the 5+ year old keyboards I've seen have legends almost intact.

The main problem with pad printing is that you can feel the legends on your fingers. And rimmed pad printing looks cheap. Rimless pad printing/silkscreen printing on the other side looks nice.

Curved profile is amazing and should come back, at least on membrane keyboards.
QWERTZ > QWERTY

Multimedia keys over FN are quite useless if you need both hands to make them work. CM's implementation of multimedia controls are the best.

I don't like the Model M. Sure, the build quality is great, the keycaps are great and it (probably) feels nice to type on, but it's really heavy and bulky,  is (probably) unbelievably loud and it dosen't sound that nice without floss modding it. That said, the Unicomp Spacesaver with greased springs would probably be an ideal buckling-spring keyboard for me.

Switch durability is marketing hype. Keyboards die because the circuitry inside is either crap or it was treated badly.

Touchtyping is overrated, it doesn't make you faster or make your hands hurt less. Even if you learn to touchtype, your right hand still has to move around too much. I don't have tiny hands and yet I still have to twist my wrist when pressing Enter, let along Backspace.

The ergonomic problems with full-size keyboards and mice are a thing, but not because the keyboard is too big, but because the person relies on his mouse too much.

Trackpoints are amazing and they should be on every keyboard. 

Lubed rubber domes are pleasant, even if you use lube totally unusuable for switches (lithium-based). The tactility feels more defined. They feel stiffer right after lubing, but try to type on it for some time and they start giving up a bit.

Unpopular mouse opinion: Mice are too unergonomic for everyday computing.

--

Also thread necromancy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vegs on Fri, 19 October 2018, 06:44:45
ABS > PBT any day of the week.

(unless it's OG Cherry  :)))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AJM on Fri, 19 October 2018, 07:10:44
WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/
You just blew my mind

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/
You just blew my mind

Just blew my mind as well, never even thought about it until it was mentioned and makes logical sense

May I blow a bit more?

What about ESCF?
Think about it! Try it! Don't tell me this isn't much more comfortable!

Who in his right mind would get the idea to arrange 4 direction keys in a T-shape?
The only reason could be not enough space. Which wasn't true for the Model-M and for every "extended" keyboard that copied it since!

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FLFisherman on Fri, 19 October 2018, 07:14:32
WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/
You just blew my mind

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/
You just blew my mind

Just blew my mind as well, never even thought about it until it was mentioned and makes logical sense

May I blow a bit more?

What about ESCF?
Think about it! Try it! Don't tell me this isn't much more comfortable!

Who in his right mind would get the idea to arrange 4 direction keys in a T-shape?
The only reason could be not enough space. Which wasn't true for the Model-M and for every "extended" keyboard that copied it since!

I feel as though trying to press back on C is very difficult. It's too much movement, which would slow people down in gaming. I'm not sure if you mean to change the directional layout outside of gaming, but I think for gaming it wouldn't work.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AJM on Fri, 19 October 2018, 07:21:04
From your comments I deduce that you press forwards and backwards both with the middle finger?
I actually never had that idea.
I don't move any finger, I rest the thumb on backwards ("C" in my example).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Fri, 19 October 2018, 07:42:27
From your comments I deduce that you press forwards and backwards both with the middle finger?
I actually never had that idea.
I don't move any finger, I rest the thumb on backwards ("C" in my example).

I thought about it that way, because one bus simulator I played a lot (OMSI) was actually using similar placement, just on a keyboard (8, 4, 2, 1 and 5 to center the stering wheel).

Having a finger on each key actually doesn't sound bad, but now that I'm trying it out, it feels cramped.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: overlypedantic on Fri, 19 October 2018, 07:56:06
I think one opinion I have would be pretty uncommon or unpopular. I think Caps Lock is VERY usesless and should be permanently replaced with the Control key. I dunno, I know people actually use Caps Lock but I can never bring myself to ever use it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Fri, 19 October 2018, 08:13:56
I think one opinion I have would be pretty uncommon or unpopular. I think Caps Lock is VERY usesless and should be permanently replaced with the Control key. I dunno, I know people actually use Caps Lock but I can never bring myself to ever use it.

That's right Shift for me. I never use it and I'd rather have Delete there.

Speaking of useless keys.. Does someone actually use Insert?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wholypantalones on Fri, 19 October 2018, 09:47:50
Speaking of useless keys.. Does someone actually use Insert?

Every time I reach for the home key with my pinky and miss or overshoot the backspace.  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 19 October 2018, 12:29:44
Speaking of useless keys.. Does someone actually use Insert?

Every time I reach for the home key with my pinky and miss or overshoot the backspace.  :D

Everyday. Just as a hobby though, nothing serious or professional like ctrl v.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: danwomansan on Fri, 19 October 2018, 13:28:40
Speaking of useless keys.. Does someone actually use Insert?

insert is very important with many demoscene tools like trackers

i hate keyboard underglow and like ml switches
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: portbaron on Fri, 19 October 2018, 14:00:25
I hate HHKB layout. Like to the point I threw out a board rather than spend time selling it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 20 October 2018, 16:29:16
I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: invariance on Sat, 20 October 2018, 17:55:50
I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.
I feel a great sadness at the very core of my being every time I hear this happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 20 October 2018, 18:32:05
I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.
Even when it is a creaky Chicony?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 20 October 2018, 20:01:37
I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.
Even when it is a creaky Chicony?
Yes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevadu on Sat, 20 October 2018, 20:19:27
Time to hide my old Chicony with blue Alps that I was planning on taking apart I guess...

Seriously though those switches deserve better.  It's a cheap, flimsy, creaky plastic case.  With only two key rollover and pointlessly huge bezels.  I have no qualms about harvesting the switches from that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Sun, 21 October 2018, 09:56:06
I actually like the font on Razer keyboards. Even the old one. But my most favorite font (overall, incl. keyboards) is Segoe UI Semilight, the one on Sun keyboards is very close to that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sun, 21 October 2018, 13:02:51
Time to hide my old Chicony with blue Alps that I was planning on taking apart I guess...

Seriously though those switches deserve better.  It's a cheap, flimsy, creaky plastic case.  With only two key rollover and pointlessly huge bezels.  I have no qualms about harvesting the switches from that.

I'll gladly take the chassis off your hands...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CommonCurt on Sun, 21 October 2018, 15:32:52
Getting tired of seeing every new GMK GB come with icon only mods.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Wed, 24 October 2018, 00:45:52
Getting tired of seeing every new GMK GB come with icon only mods.

There, I fixed it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CommonCurt on Wed, 24 October 2018, 01:46:16
Getting tired of seeing every new GMK GB come with icon only mods.
There, I fixed it.

If only it were that easy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nmur on Wed, 24 October 2018, 01:55:07
stormtrooper hhkbs are uggo

don't @ me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Wed, 24 October 2018, 02:46:34
Any high contrast case/keycaps combo is ugly.

Heil Dolch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fishinaspacesuit on Wed, 24 October 2018, 08:50:11
Artisan keycaps are one of the best things that happened to mechanical keyboards.. don't @ me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: shifted on Tue, 30 October 2018, 12:05:35
For me personally, MX Cherry switches don't feel as nice as a decent rubber dome.  I have tried MX Cherry red, speed red, black, brown, blue and clear keyboards.  Finally tried a Topre before abandoning mechanical keyboards altogether and found what I like...a glorified rubber dome. (I have 3 topre keyboards now; Realforce R2 Silent 45g, Realforce 87U 55g, Realforce RGB 45g)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Tue, 30 October 2018, 12:18:06
I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.

I regret every vintage board I've cut up... except AEKS.

Unpopular opinion: AEKs suck...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Tue, 30 October 2018, 17:31:12
For me personally, MX Cherry switches don't feel as nice as a decent rubber dome.  I have tried MX Cherry red, speed red, black, brown, blue and clear keyboards.  Finally tried a Topre before abandoning mechanical keyboards altogether and found what I like...a glorified rubber dome. (I have 3 topre keyboards now; Realforce R2 Silent 45g, Realforce 87U 55g, Realforce RGB 45g)

Agreed. I like light switches with heavy tactility, so commercially avaliable Cherry switches (maybe except Blue, but I can't find a MX Blue board to try anywhere; I tried Razer Greens and also tried not to laugh; also given the country I live in, vintage and custom stuff sounds nice, but is extremely scarce and/or expensive) and Romer-Gs are a no. And quite honestly, for me, a "mechanical feel" keyboard or a vintage rubber dome feels much better than a MX Brown keyboard.

But I'll disagree about Topre. I'm sure it feels nice, but I really can't justify paying 250+ bucks for a better built rubber dome. Or at least I'd expect the OOBE to be near perfect, ie. I wouldn't have to pay extra 60 bucks for different domes, some more for a PBT spacebar and even some more for silencing rings. IMHO the beauty of vintage rubberdomes is not their "perfectness", but their value. I mean, the Compaq RT101 I'm typing on costed me a fraction of Topre's price (22 bucks), has awesome build quality (steel backplate, separate case and barrel plate), all-PBT keycaps with curved profile (all keycaps are same, but the board isn't flat), is quieter and looks better than Topre and feels really good to type on. They have some quirks (on mine I miss the Windows key, also the case creaks slightly while picking the keyboard up), but they're still great value for the money.

[attach=1]
If the keyboard had Windows keys, I'd think the keyboard looks too modern for something made in Feb 1995.


Also:
- Dell KB-212 was a good budget keyboard
- Low-profile keyboards suck, especially if they have way too big keycaps (chiclets). If your hands hurt from using a "tall" keyboard, you're using it wrong.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ramencup on Tue, 30 October 2018, 20:58:16
But I'll disagree about Topre. I'm sure it feels nice, but I really can't justify paying 250+ bucks for a better built rubber dome. Or at least I'd expect the OOBE to be near perfect, ie. I wouldn't have to pay extra 60 bucks for different domes, some more for a PBT spacebar and even some more for silencing rings.

Actually, that raises a question. Would a NIZ Plum decked out with BKE Redux domes and lube be close enough to a Topre board decked out similarly? I have too much sense to fall for the Topre meme just yet but I've heard great things about BKE Redux.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Tue, 30 October 2018, 22:30:02
But I'll disagree about Topre. I'm sure it feels nice, but I really can't justify paying 250+ bucks for a better built rubber dome. Or at least I'd expect the OOBE to be near perfect, ie. I wouldn't have to pay extra 60 bucks for different domes, some more for a PBT spacebar and even some more for silencing rings.

Actually, that raises a question. Would a NIZ Plum decked out with BKE Redux domes and lube be close enough to a Topre board decked out similarly? I have too much sense to fall for the Topre meme just yet but I've heard great things about BKE Redux.

Typing on some BKE Redux heavies now. 7/8 would recommend if you like a stiff, tactile board. I love mine, but maybe that's an unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: The_Boom_Boy on Tue, 30 October 2018, 23:51:45
Things that I don't like
Things that I don't think that are that bad
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: romevi on Wed, 31 October 2018, 00:22:03
no
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Wed, 31 October 2018, 03:51:37
TKLs (aesthetically pleasing but too big)

Too big? Not because you lose too much functionality if compared to an XT-layout keyboard?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AJM on Wed, 31 October 2018, 05:17:45
The layout of the IBM Model F XT is not weird. The "Enhanced" layout is the weird one.
(Ok, if I were a few years younger, I probably would never have used another layout than the "Enhanced" one, so I can understand, when "younger" persons see the XT layout as weird.)
But I am old enough to witness the change from XT to "Enhanced" layout and I just couldn't understand it:
This was a time when the input device mouse became more and more important.
And what does IBM do? They extend the keyboard to the right - where the mouse usually sits - for the important task of inserting a second, completely redundant set of nav keys. The only difference being, that they're arranged in a less practical fashion.
On the left side of the keyboard, where you usually have no space problem, they remove the F-keys and put them at the top for the benefit of having 2 additional F-keys, which - again because of the mouse - are becoming far less important.
Apart from that there are the aesthetics: You now had a bigger keyboard, that didn't sit roughly in the middle in front of the screen. Instead you were "working" mostly in one corner of the board - with a vast half sticking out to the right side.

"But this layout has been in use for over 30 years without any real change, so it must be good, right?"
Not really. The "Enhanced" IBM keyboard was copied from everybody else - like the XT layout before -, which makes sense, if you want to build a clone. After that - with IBM declining - no other manufacturer had the power and importance to introduce big changes.

And while I'm at it: I love stepped keys. Not only are do they look elegant (with the steps all being symmetrical), they're the best and most practical way to ensure, that the keys are pressed in the right spot. Not like with pretty much all the BA-keys (that includes all other Shift keys) where you actually press the wrong spot, if you hit the key in the middle.

And in case anyone is still reading  :)) : The aesthetically worst keyboards are the ones which combine BA-keys with stepped keys (like the Model F AT for example).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Wed, 31 October 2018, 07:55:35
I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.

I regret every vintage board I've cut up... except AEKS.

Unpopular opinion: AEKs suck...

Unpopular opinion: I'd rather use an AEK (with my choice of clickies installed) than a 60% board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Wed, 31 October 2018, 07:57:44
Unpopular opinion: I hate the HHKB hype. They probably feel great and all, but I hate the stupid hype. However, I do like swapped Capslock and Control because of my Wyse WY-60.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appaboy on Wed, 31 October 2018, 07:58:27
I like g80s more than well built boards, even though I'm well aware that they suck in build quality and can afford better boards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 31 October 2018, 07:59:48
I like white keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 31 October 2018, 09:41:11
Things that I don't like
  • HHKB layout
  • Split right shift
  • Tactile switches
  • Box clickies
  • TKLs (aesthetically pleasing but too big)
Things that I don't think that are that bad
  • MX blues
  • Gatistotles
  • Gateron  clears

Maybe you should start with what you do like
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ramencup on Wed, 31 October 2018, 12:15:41
But I'll disagree about Topre. I'm sure it feels nice, but I really can't justify paying 250+ bucks for a better built rubber dome. Or at least I'd expect the OOBE to be near perfect, ie. I wouldn't have to pay extra 60 bucks for different domes, some more for a PBT spacebar and even some more for silencing rings.

Actually, that raises a question. Would a NIZ Plum decked out with BKE Redux domes and lube be close enough to a Topre board decked out similarly? I have too much sense to fall for the Topre meme just yet but I've heard great things about BKE Redux.

Typing on some BKE Redux heavies now. 7/8 would recommend if you like a stiff, tactile board. I love mine, but maybe that's an unpopular opinion.
Cool beans. Would the BKE dome swap be viable with a Plum board though? I've seen plenty of people discuss it as a viable Topre alternative but I've never actually seen it done before.

Since I haven't left an opinion yet, I actually didn't think it was that hard to switch to a split ergo layout for the first time. I only took around a 30WPM hit when my ErgoDox came in.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: duckboi on Wed, 31 October 2018, 14:31:14
But I'll disagree about Topre. I'm sure it feels nice, but I really can't justify paying 250+ bucks for a better built rubber dome. Or at least I'd expect the OOBE to be near perfect, ie. I wouldn't have to pay extra 60 bucks for different domes, some more for a PBT spacebar and even some more for silencing rings.

Actually, that raises a question. Would a NIZ Plum decked out with BKE Redux domes and lube be close enough to a Topre board decked out similarly? I have too much sense to fall for the Topre meme just yet but I've heard great things about BKE Redux.

Typing on some BKE Redux heavies now. 7/8 would recommend if you like a stiff, tactile board. I love mine, but maybe that's an unpopular opinion.
Cool beans. Would the BKE dome swap be viable with a Plum board though? I've seen plenty of people discuss it as a viable Topre alternative but I've never actually seen it done before.

Since I haven't left an opinion yet, I actually didn't think it was that hard to switch to a split ergo layout for the first time. I only took around a 30WPM hit when my ErgoDox came in.

Yeah it should work on plum boards.

I HATED BKE redux though so I wouldn't recommend it at all but that's just me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Wed, 31 October 2018, 19:03:40
But I'll disagree about Topre. I'm sure it feels nice, but I really can't justify paying 250+ bucks for a better built rubber dome. Or at least I'd expect the OOBE to be near perfect, ie. I wouldn't have to pay extra 60 bucks for different domes, some more for a PBT spacebar and even some more for silencing rings.

Actually, that raises a question. Would a NIZ Plum decked out with BKE Redux domes and lube be close enough to a Topre board decked out similarly? I have too much sense to fall for the Topre meme just yet but I've heard great things about BKE Redux.

Typing on some BKE Redux heavies now. 7/8 would recommend if you like a stiff, tactile board. I love mine, but maybe that's an unpopular opinion.
Cool beans. Would the BKE dome swap be viable with a Plum board though? I've seen plenty of people discuss it as a viable Topre alternative but I've never actually seen it done before.

Since I haven't left an opinion yet, I actually didn't think it was that hard to switch to a split ergo layout for the first time. I only took around a 30WPM hit when my ErgoDox came in.

The only problem with Plum modding is that it can be a pain to seat the domes correctly requiring you to take the board apart a couple of times to get it right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 31 October 2018, 19:37:09
lmao, is this an unpopular opinion thread or a hate thread? Most people seem to be using this as a hate ventilator.
State "I don't like such and such", don't add your bs hate into it. Otherwise, people might actually use their Mech boards as a melee weapon...haha just kidding...maybe...


In that case the grouchy old Model M owners will totally beat the crap out of all the hipsters with their teensy sub-TKL boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 31 October 2018, 19:50:43
lmao, is this an unpopular opinion thread or a hate thread? Most people seem to be using this as a hate ventilator.
State "I don't like such and such", don't add your bs hate into it. Otherwise, people might actually use their Mech boards as a melee weapon...haha just kidding...maybe...


In that case the grouchy old Model M owners will totally beat the crap out of all the hipsters with their teensy sub-TKL boards.

Holy necropost batman. We digging up posts from page 6 now?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 31 October 2018, 21:04:22
lmao, is this an unpopular opinion thread or a hate thread? Most people seem to be using this as a hate ventilator.
State "I don't like such and such", don't add your bs hate into it. Otherwise, people might actually use their Mech boards as a melee weapon...haha just kidding...maybe...


In that case the grouchy old Model M owners will totally beat the crap out of all the hipsters with their teensy sub-TKL boards.

Holy necropost batman. We digging up posts from page 6 now?

Woah. I must've gotten lost in the thread pages big time. I thought it was from only a couple pages back.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Sat, 03 November 2018, 09:03:24
Electromechanical engineer here with diverse experience miniaturization of complex electromechanical assemblies...

I literally created an account just to say this.

Scissor Switches are by far the best switch design

The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.

I assure you, if one were designed and manufactured with your needs in mind, a majority of you would prefer them for their inherent stability, smoothness, and crisp operation.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 03 November 2018, 09:49:19
Electromechanical engineer here with diverse experience miniaturization of complex electromechanical assemblies...

I literally created an account just to say this.

Scissor Switches are by far the best switch design

The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.

I assure you, if one were designed and manufactured with your needs in mind, a majority of you would prefer them for their inherent stability, smoothness, and crisp operation.

I don't get why anyone would like one of the worst and cheapest keyboard designs. Key stability doesn't really matter when you are repeatedly bashing little flimsy chiclet keys into a hard surface.

Although you may find out you would like Kailh's low-profile "chocolate bar" switches much better than a rubber dome scissor. Jade would probably be your favorite due to lighter weight and sharp tactility.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: The_Boom_Boy on Sat, 03 November 2018, 09:54:18
Things that I don't like
  • HHKB layout
  • Split right shift
  • Tactile switches
  • Box clickies
  • TKLs (aesthetically pleasing but too big)
Things that I don't think that are that bad
  • MX blues
  • Gatistotles
  • Gateron  clears

Maybe you should start with what you do like
Why?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Sat, 03 November 2018, 10:30:08
Electromechanical engineer here with diverse experience miniaturization of complex electromechanical assemblies...

I literally created an account just to say this.

Scissor Switches are by far the best switch design

The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.

I assure you, if one were designed and manufactured with your needs in mind, a majority of you would prefer them for their inherent stability, smoothness, and crisp operation.

I don't get why anyone would like one of the worst and cheapest keyboard designs. Key stability doesn't really matter when you are repeatedly bashing little flimsy chiclet keys into a hard surface.

Although you may find out you would like Kailh's low-profile "chocolate bar" switches much better than a rubber dome scissor. Jade would probably be your favorite due to lighter weight and sharp tactility.
I have choc switches. They are a decent low-profile switch, but kaihua scissors are superior, which is why kaihua developed them in the first place.

Scissor switches are actually quite a bit more expensive to develop and produce. The only reason why you don't have a lot of high quality examples of scissor switches is that the design didn't gain traction until after keyboards were commoditized. I can assure you that a full travel scissor switch designed and produced with the same performance goals as high end slider switches would outperform them. The design simply has fewer drawbacks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 03 November 2018, 11:58:22
Electromechanical engineer here with diverse experience miniaturization of complex electromechanical assemblies...

I literally created an account just to say this.

Scissor Switches are by far the best switch design

The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.

I assure you, if one were designed and manufactured with your needs in mind, a majority of you would prefer them for their inherent stability, smoothness, and crisp operation.

I don't get why anyone would like one of the worst and cheapest keyboard designs. Key stability doesn't really matter when you are repeatedly bashing little flimsy chiclet keys into a hard surface.

Although you may find out you would like Kailh's low-profile "chocolate bar" switches much better than a rubber dome scissor. Jade would probably be your favorite due to lighter weight and sharp tactility.
I have choc switches. They are a decent low-profile switch, but kaihua scissors are superior, which is why kaihua developed them in the first place.

Scissor switches are actually quite a bit more expensive to develop and produce. The only reason why you don't have a lot of high quality examples of scissor switches is that the design didn't gain traction until after keyboards were commoditized. I can assure you that a full travel scissor switch designed and produced with the same performance goals as high end slider switches would outperform them. The design simply has fewer drawbacks.

Yes, a mechanized scissor switch like Kaihua's makes sense. However I have no love for the rubber-dome scissor boards that the Apple-copying zombified computer industry is throwing on everything nowadays, even desktop keyboards. Walking into a Worst Buy nowadays makes me boiling mad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 03 November 2018, 15:23:47
Electromechanical engineer here with diverse experience miniaturization of complex electromechanical assemblies...

I literally created an account just to say this.

Scissor Switches are by far the best switch design

The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.

I assure you, if one were designed and manufactured with your needs in mind, a majority of you would prefer them for their inherent stability, smoothness, and crisp operation.

Is there such a thing as a capacitive sensing scissor switch? That would be interesting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 03 November 2018, 17:00:58
Electromechanical engineer here with diverse experience miniaturization of complex electromechanical assemblies...

I literally created an account just to say this.

Scissor Switches are by far the best switch design

The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.

I assure you, if one were designed and manufactured with your needs in mind, a majority of you would prefer them for their inherent stability, smoothness, and crisp operation.

Is there such a thing as a capacitive sensing scissor switch? That would be interesting.

You'd somehow need to integrate a return spring into the design, though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 03 November 2018, 17:33:20
The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.
Scissors with up to 3.2 mm travel exist. Really nice, yes. (Logitech PerfectStroke)
But there are several of variables here, and a long way from idea to practice. Sliders are often stable enough, well-known and robust.
Scissor legs tend to break easily, even on the somewhat thicker legs on the 3.2 mm switch.

The community here does not build switches on its own, at least not entirely new switches.
Many ideas have been proposed, but the barriers for a hobbyist to start manufacturing something like that with high-precision are simply too high.
Some ideas for slider variants have been picked up by mainstream manufacturers and sold as custom. Some springs have been replaced. Some lubrication. That's it. That's what Zeal PC, Input.Club, Massdrop and Kbdfans have done.

Maybe switches with a combination of slider and a single stabiliser (scissors are two stabilisers) would be the future. Some low-profile Kailh switches have them, as well as Bloody LK Libra (full size). Longer keys on Topre also have the stabiliser inside the switch, stabilising the single slider making swapping keys much easier.

I find it somewhat unfortunate, however, that Cherry MX mount has become so prolific. Nowadays, if a switch is to become popular it would need to be Cherry MX keycap-compatible.

Is there such a thing as a capacitive sensing scissor switch? That would be interesting.
The minimal TextBlade (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67682.0) was ... but not really. It used one physical scissor-key for three (or six) keys. In the bottom of each key assembly, there were three (or six) capacitive sensors that sensed the proximity of the user's finger-tip as it pressed down in one of three (or six) positions on the key surface.
The company was a disaster. I don't think they shipped any products. (Read the end of the thread)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 03 November 2018, 18:13:38
The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.
Scissors with up to 3.2 mm travel exist. Really nice, yes. (Logitech PerfectStroke)
But there are several of variables here, and a long way from idea to practice. Sliders are often stable enough, well-known and robust.
Scissor legs tend to break easily, even on the somewhat thicker legs on the 3.2 mm switch.

The community here does not build switches on its own, at least not entirely new switches.
Many ideas have been proposed, but the barriers for a hobbyist to start manufacturing something like that with high-precision are simply too high.
Some ideas for slider variants have been picked up by mainstream manufacturers and sold as custom. Some springs have been replaced. Some lubrication. That's it. That's what Zeal PC, Input.Club, Massdrop and Kbdfans have done.

Maybe switches with a combination of slider and a single stabiliser (scissors are two stabilisers) would be the future. Some low-profile Kailh switches have them, as well as Bloody LK Libra (full size). Longer keys on Topre also have the stabiliser inside the switch, stabilising the single slider making swapping keys much easier.

I find it somewhat unfortunate, however, that Cherry MX mount has become so prolific. Nowadays, if a switch is to become popular it would need to be Cherry MX keycap-compatible.

Is there such a thing as a capacitive sensing scissor switch? That would be interesting.
The minimal TextBlade (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67682.0) was ... but not really. It used one physical scissor-key for three (or six) keys. In the bottom of each key assembly, there were three (or six) capacitive sensors that sensed the proximity of the user's finger-tip as it pressed down in one of three (or six) positions on the key surface.
The company was a disaster. I don't think they shipped any products. (Read the end of the thread)

Oh wow, I had completely forgotten about the TextBlade. Was a neat concept anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 03 November 2018, 19:44:21
The best of all worlds would be a Hall Effect Space Invader... If only they existed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Sat, 03 November 2018, 21:13:23
The best of all worlds would be a Hall Effect Space Invader... If only they existed.
Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Sun, 04 November 2018, 11:42:27
A couple of big ones:

Wrist rests are only useful if you are typing wrong.

Flipped space bars fall into the same category.

Carpal tunnel syndrome did not exist when people were taught how to type correctly. Your forearms should be high enough over your desk so that if you simply let your hands drop (like a zombie), they naturally fall into the keys. This is by far the most ergonomic, accurate, and fastest way to type. All keyboard sculpts (Cherry, IBM, Microswitch, OEM, DSS) were designed to suit this typing style. So if you are doing it any other way, it's not going to work correctly, mkay?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sun, 04 November 2018, 13:25:52
The best of all worlds would be a Hall Effect Space Invader... If only they existed.
Care to elaborate?
Extreme key stability, full travel, and reliability.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Mon, 05 November 2018, 02:34:33
Metal is unneccessary as a keyboard material. Too expensive, makes the keyboard too heavy and it doesn't even feel/sound nice.

Big bezels are unneccesary. If you build a 60% keyboard and put it in a 20cm thick case, aren't you ruining the purpose of such a keyboard?

Every keyboard should have a spring in a spacebar.

I don't like the sound of blue Alps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: brainandforce on Mon, 05 November 2018, 17:04:44
White Alps are better than Blue Alps.

The best Model M you can get is a brand new Unicomp Ultra Classic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 05 November 2018, 18:35:23
Carpal tunnel syndrome did not exist when people were taught how to type correctly.
That's not an opinion. That's simply ignorant.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 05 November 2018, 19:00:36
Carpal tunnel syndrome did not exist when people were taught how to type correctly.
That's not an opinion. That's simply ignorant.

Hahahahhahahahaha... 

i mean, yea it's more common in the mouse hand than left typing hand,  buhhh.. def could happen..


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 05 November 2018, 19:45:39
White Alps are better than Blue Alps.

The best Model M you can get is a brand new Unicomp Ultra Classic.

I don't know what bothers me more: that I agree with the second statement or that Unicomp doesn't make an SSK alternative.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Tue, 06 November 2018, 09:38:57
This community spends an insane amount of resources on custom keyboards and caps that do nothing to actually innovate or move mechanical keyboards forward.

Kaihua Box switch keycap mounts are the biggest f*ck up in modern keyboard history.

Lack of aftermarket topre switch suppliers and qualified PCB designers are the single biggest issue facing the community at large.

The release of DSS profile caps will likely kill SA profile.


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Tue, 06 November 2018, 16:02:31

The best Model M you can get is a brand new Unicomp Ultra Classic.

I don't know what bothers me more: that I agree with the second statement or that Unicomp doesn't make an SSK alternative.

The only way I can reconcile that thought in my brain is to assume you haven't tried a good vintage M (since individual specimens vary). Granted, I've only used one Unicomp, but it was such an atrocity that I sent it back for a refund. Model Ms from the '80s are much sturdier and the switch feel is great (as opposed to the Unicomp that felt like scraping a knife against a chalkboard). I do have a spare Unicomp barrel frame that didn't feel as bad when I put caps on it, but still not nearly as good as a vintage one, so maybe my Unicomp was just a lemon.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Wed, 07 November 2018, 07:10:03

The best Model M you can get is a brand new Unicomp Ultra Classic.

I don't know what bothers me more: that I agree with the second statement or that Unicomp doesn't make an SSK alternative.

The only way I can reconcile that thought in my brain is to assume you haven't tried a good vintage M (since individual specimens vary). Granted, I've only used one Unicomp, but it was such an atrocity that I sent it back for a refund. Model Ms from the '80s are much sturdier and the switch feel is great (as opposed to the Unicomp that felt like scraping a knife against a chalkboard). I do have a spare Unicomp barrel frame that didn't feel as bad when I put caps on it, but still not nearly as good as a vintage one, so maybe my Unicomp was just a lemon.
I have always been mystified by unicomps. They have the sole right to produce the most iconic keyboard of all time. They even have original tooling. How do you screw that up?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Wed, 07 November 2018, 07:48:34
Tooling needs maintenance, maintenance needs people, people need a salary. Just a thought about why.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 07 November 2018, 08:19:55
Tooling needs maintenance, maintenance needs people, people need a salary. Just a thought about why.

^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 07 November 2018, 08:33:45

How do you screw that up?


They didn't. Unicomp is a good company, but they have let quality control erode.

Haters are constantly complaining, but Unicomp is still putting out a solid, durable product.


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Wed, 07 November 2018, 09:37:05
All-metal cases sound dull and dead. Plastic echoes sound much better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SneakyRobb on Wed, 07 November 2018, 10:00:56
All-metal cases sound dull and dead. Plastic echoes sound much better.

I agree. I think this is why so many large brass instruments are made of plastic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Wed, 07 November 2018, 10:06:02
All-metal cases sound dull and dead. Plastic echoes sound much better.

I agree. I think this is why so many large brass instruments are made of plastic.

Sarcasm? Anyways, it's not like instruments are a solid block of metal. Clickbar switches sound so bland in one of those tiny overpriced solid metal cases. I did some experiments in an all plastic fullsize chassis and the sount they make in there is just so much more vibrant.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 07 November 2018, 10:22:14
All-metal cases sound dull and dead. Plastic echoes sound much better.

I agree. I think this is why so many large brass instruments are made of plastic.

Sarcasm?

Thought I'd point out that the manufacture's implementation of mass distribution will change the sound quite a bit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Wed, 07 November 2018, 10:47:11

How do you screw that up?


They didn't. Unicomp is a good company, but they have let quality control erode.

Haters are constantly complaining, but Unicomp is still putting out a solid, durable product.

If that were true, we would not be having this conversation.

They changed the product. Those changes made the product less solid and durable. They bought the rights to a winning formula and then changed the formula to make it not winning.

If that's not screwing up, I don't know what is.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 07 November 2018, 10:58:46
If Unicomp could refresh their tooling I'm sure they would.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SneakyRobb on Wed, 07 November 2018, 10:59:13

How do you screw that up?


They didn't. Unicomp is a good company, but they have let quality control erode.

Haters are constantly complaining, but Unicomp is still putting out a solid, durable product.

If that were true, we would not be having this conversation.

They changed the product. Those changes made the product less solid and durable. They bought the rights to a winning formula and then changed the formula to make it not winning.

If that's not screwing up, I don't know what is.


This might be true to some degree but it is not as if Model Ms were at a consistent quality and then all of a sudden Unicomp caused them to be less good. There isn't some moment when Unicomp enters that they just decided to make them suck. Remember lexmark was there.   Also remember that the model m is basically just a cheapened version of the model f to begin with. Unicomp is just the last bit of a very long downward trend of quality.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Wed, 07 November 2018, 11:00:30
If Unicomp could refresh their tooling I'm sure they would.
Has anyone asked them how much money they'd need? Maybe we could collect.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 07 November 2018, 11:13:33
If Unicomp could refresh their tooling I'm sure they would.
Has anyone asked them how much money they'd need? Maybe we could collect.

iirc, the tooling needs to be replaced. So however many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands (?) of USD that would take. A Unicomp SSK kickstarter would be neat.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Wed, 07 November 2018, 11:21:49
If Unicomp could refresh their tooling I'm sure they would.
Has anyone asked them how much money they'd need? Maybe we could collect.

iirc, the tooling needs to be replaced. So however many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands (?) of USD that would take. A Unicomp SSK kickstarter would be neat.
I'm in.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Wed, 07 November 2018, 11:23:07
Count me in as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: barrel on Wed, 07 November 2018, 12:05:05
Leopold make the best keyboards of any brand in the MX Market.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Wed, 07 November 2018, 16:13:46
If Unicomp could refresh their tooling I'm sure they would.
Has anyone asked them how much money they'd need? Maybe we could collect.

iirc, the tooling needs to be replaced. So however many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands (?) of USD that would take. A Unicomp SSK kickstarter would be neat.
Tens of thousands, perhaps, certainly not hundreds.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Wed, 07 November 2018, 16:15:36
Sounds like GH/DT could make it in a day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 07 November 2018, 16:59:23
If Unicomp could refresh their tooling I'm sure they would.
Has anyone asked them how much money they'd need? Maybe we could collect.

iirc, the tooling needs to be replaced. So however many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands (?) of USD that would take. A Unicomp SSK kickstarter would be neat.
Tens of thousands, perhaps, certainly not hundreds.

Curious. You ask how Unicomp can screw up their product that they make with the 'original tooling', and yet you obviously understand the underlying reason as to why the quality has regressed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 07 November 2018, 20:12:36
Electromechanical engineer here with diverse experience miniaturization of complex electromechanical assemblies...

I literally created an account just to say this.

Scissor Switches are by far the best switch design

The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.

I assure you, if one were designed and manufactured with your needs in mind, a majority of you would prefer them for their inherent stability, smoothness, and crisp operation.

I believe the old Thinkpads had scissor switches- they were the far and away best laptop keyboards I'd ever used. Short travel as they were laptops, but much better than the new Apple travesties.

The main downside were that they keycaps were fixed into the top of the scissoring mechanism.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Thu, 08 November 2018, 08:42:45
If Unicomp could refresh their tooling I'm sure they would.
Has anyone asked them how much money they'd need? Maybe we could collect.

iirc, the tooling needs to be replaced. So however many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands (?) of USD that would take. A Unicomp SSK kickstarter would be neat.
Tens of thousands, perhaps, certainly not hundreds.

Curious. You ask how Unicomp can screw up their product that they make with the 'original tooling', and yet you obviously understand the underlying reason as to why the quality has regressed.
Well, I think that assertion assumes that I believe that old worn-out tooling is the primary issue. I do not believe that. I believe they either lack the know-how or the motivation to make the most of what they have. It's probably a bit of both.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 08 November 2018, 11:17:19
If Unicomp could refresh their tooling I'm sure they would.
Has anyone asked them how much money they'd need? Maybe we could collect.

iirc, the tooling needs to be replaced. So however many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands (?) of USD that would take. A Unicomp SSK kickstarter would be neat.
Tens of thousands, perhaps, certainly not hundreds.

Curious. You ask how Unicomp can screw up their product that they make with the 'original tooling', and yet you obviously understand the underlying reason as to why the quality has regressed.
Well, I think that assertion assumes that I believe that old worn-out tooling is the primary issue. I do not believe that. I believe they either lack the know-how or the motivation to make the most of what they have. It's probably a bit of both.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blue_Moon on Thu, 08 November 2018, 13:36:41
Electromechanical engineer here with diverse experience miniaturization of complex electromechanical assemblies...

I literally created an account just to say this.

Scissor Switches are by far the best switch design

The only reason why this isn't apparent is because a vast majority of scissor switches are developed to be as compact as possible. The fact that the community is not pursuing a 4mm performance scissor switch is a travesty.

I assure you, if one were designed and manufactured with your needs in mind, a majority of you would prefer them for their inherent stability, smoothness, and crisp operation.

i like scissor switch. someone later mentions logitech perfectstroke for a larger scissor switch. that immediately reminded me of sean wrona (speed typist) who uses a logitech rubber dome instead of the das mechanical he had before (i emailed him asking if he'd actually managed to wear out a mechanical keyswitch, but he said spilt orange juice was the culprit). he says the speed difference between his logitech rubberdome and previous mechanical keyboard is insignificant. i went to check his site again:
Quote
...have since switched to a Logitech Illuminated Keyboard k740. I do not particularly feel much of a speed difference between the two keyboards, although the Das Keyboard probably did feel better to type with.

how do you feel apple's butterfly switch compares?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Thu, 08 November 2018, 14:35:46
And that last post bring me to my next unpopular opinion.

Mechanical keyboard enthusiasts more often than not, can't type.

I find it utterly hilarious watching many mechanical keyboard review and how to videos with someone who is highly regarded by the community as an expert. Don't get me wrong, they know their mechanical keyboards, but inevitably they do a typing sound test and you realize they can't type  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blue_Moon on Thu, 08 November 2018, 15:22:25
not sure what you're getting at, since you didn't point it out, but if you're referring to my lack of capital letters and loose regard for punctuation, you'd be wrong. i touch type, have touched typed for decades, and aim for 99% accuracy. i'll have you know, it took me years after joining a gaming company to undo what i had learned, but i find i can't manage both styles (caps vs no caps) and using proper punctuation makes me seem like a prude

however, if that was just a tangent out of the blue, i agree. the guy who did keyboard.io said he didn't know how to touch type until he tried making his own keyboard. sean wrona technically can't touch type! i imagine this number only increases as people learn to type on their own and don't take typing classes. that was me for about my first decade of typing, but then when i got old enough to work, i got a job as a data entry clerk and had plenty of time to learn to touch type >.<
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Thu, 08 November 2018, 15:33:16
not sure what you're getting at, since you didn't point it out, but if you're referring to my lack of capital letters and loose regard for punctuation, you'd be wrong. i touch type, have touched typed for decades, and aim for 99% accuracy. i'll have you know, it took me years after joining a gaming company to undo what i had learned, but i find i can't manage both styles (caps vs no caps) and using proper punctuation makes me seem like a prude

however, if that was just a tangent out of the blue, i agree. the guy who did keyboard.io said he didn't know how to touch type until he tried making his own keyboard. sean wrona technically can't touch type! i imagine this number only increases as people learn to type on their own and don't take typing classes. that was me for about my first decade of typing, but then when i got old enough to work, i got a job as a data entry clerk and had plenty of time to learn to touch type >.<
Oh no, I'm sorry. I should have been more specific. I wasn't commenting on your typing at all but rather that the fastest typist known to man doesn't seem to care what kind of board he types on as opposed to a huge portion of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts who are very particular about their hardware but terrible typists.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 08 November 2018, 15:38:39
Two years of HS typing classes (A's) and I still spacebar with my left hand :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Thu, 08 November 2018, 19:16:22
Two years of HS typing classes (A's) and I still spacebar with my left hand :))
Err, aren't you supposed to?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 08 November 2018, 19:22:04
Two years of HS typing classes (A's) and I still spacebar with my left hand :))
Err, aren't you supposed to?

?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Thu, 08 November 2018, 19:59:01
Two years of HS typing classes (A's) and I still spacebar with my left hand :))
Err, aren't you supposed to?

?
I was taught to hit spacebar with left thumb.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 08 November 2018, 20:19:21

I was taught to hit spacebar with left thumb.

Proper technique...

Always use space bar with right thumb

NEVER use Right-shift, EVER,  always shift with left shift.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Thu, 08 November 2018, 23:28:41
Proper technique...

Always use space bar with right thumb

NEVER use Right-shift, EVER,  always shift with left shift.


I never heard that in typing class.  I don't remember ever being given any instructions on how to use the space bar, and I ended up hitting it with either thumb more-or-less at random.  When I switched to split-spacebar keyboards it didn't take long to learn hitting space with my right thumb and backspace with my left thumb.  To me it's a big improvement over reaching waaay up to the corner and groping around for backspace with my pinkie!

We were taught in typing class, very specifically, to always use the shift key opposite the letter we were shifting.  If typing a letter with the left hand, use right-shift.  If typing a letter with the right hand, use left-shift.  To me this seems so obvious that I didn't even think about it being possible to do another way.  You want to try and hit two keys at the same time with one hand?  Madness!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CommonCurt on Fri, 09 November 2018, 01:41:53
Always use space bar with right thumb

NEVER use Right-shift, EVER,  always shift with left shift.[/color][/size]

Agreed.   Although I do use right shift for punctuation marks. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rumlyne on Fri, 09 November 2018, 02:19:58
Although unfortunately I'm currently using an HP membrane piece of junk at work I'm glad I had it since it introduced me to the glory of flat keyboard cases and uncontoured/flat profiles. It's soo much more comfortable that even the mildly contoured and barely angled keayboards I've used until now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: asphyxia on Sun, 11 November 2018, 19:51:55
tina c is actually really good if built well
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: brainandforce on Mon, 12 November 2018, 00:19:47

The best Model M you can get is a brand new Unicomp Ultra Classic.

I don't know what bothers me more: that I agree with the second statement or that Unicomp doesn't make an SSK alternative.

The only way I can reconcile that thought in my brain is to assume you haven't tried a good vintage M (since individual specimens vary). Granted, I've only used one Unicomp, but it was such an atrocity that I sent it back for a refund. Model Ms from the '80s are much sturdier and the switch feel is great (as opposed to the Unicomp that felt like scraping a knife against a chalkboard). I do have a spare Unicomp barrel frame that didn't feel as bad when I put caps on it, but still not nearly as good as a vintage one, so maybe my Unicomp was just a lemon.

I'm curious, have you tried a recent (2014 or later) Unicomp? They have a somewhat lighter, crisper feel than previous Model Ms. I've tried a few other Model Ms, but none of them feel as light as the 2014 EnduraPro and 2016 Ultra Classic I've tried. It's a bit closer to the feel of a Model F, IMO, though the Model F is still distinctly different.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BigBlackThock on Mon, 12 November 2018, 14:14:26
The difference in quality between Topre and Cherry-style tactile switches is more apparent than Cherry and Rubber Dome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Chekonjak on Mon, 12 November 2018, 21:27:42
Proper technique...

Always use space bar with right thumb

NEVER use Right-shift, EVER,  always shift with left shift.


I never heard that in typing class.  I don't remember ever being given any instructions on how to use the space bar, and I ended up hitting it with either thumb more-or-less at random.  When I switched to split-spacebar keyboards it didn't take long to learn hitting space with my right thumb and backspace with my left thumb.  To me it's a big improvement over reaching waaay up to the corner and groping around for backspace with my pinkie!

We were taught in typing class, very specifically, to always use the shift key opposite the letter we were shifting.  If typing a letter with the left hand, use right-shift.  If typing a letter with the right hand, use left-shift.  To me this seems so obvious that I didn't even think about it being possible to do another way.  You want to try and hit two keys at the same time with one hand?  Madness!

This one is so hard after learning to type at the same time as learning to play first-person shooters!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Tue, 13 November 2018, 02:05:32
Proper technique...

Always use space bar with right thumb

NEVER use Right-shift, EVER,  always shift with left shift.


I never heard that in typing class.  I don't remember ever being given any instructions on how to use the space bar, and I ended up hitting it with either thumb more-or-less at random.  When I switched to split-spacebar keyboards it didn't take long to learn hitting space with my right thumb and backspace with my left thumb.  To me it's a big improvement over reaching waaay up to the corner and groping around for backspace with my pinkie!

We were taught in typing class, very specifically, to always use the shift key opposite the letter we were shifting.  If typing a letter with the left hand, use right-shift.  If typing a letter with the right hand, use left-shift.  To me this seems so obvious that I didn't even think about it being possible to do another way.  You want to try and hit two keys at the same time with one hand?  Madness!

I don't know if this is textbook technique.  Even though I was taught to use both R and L shift keys, I use only left.  It slows me down a heck of a lot when I have to hit !, @, or Z.  Rshift is so foreign to me that this slows me down too when using punctuation.  I shoulda learned right the first time.

I only  use my right thumb to space.  There is so much wasted real-estate space on a keyboard.  The profiles could be made significantly smaller with a space bar of only 2.5 units.  It would also weigh less (more responsive) and have less wobble.  This would also quiet down that empty clack of the space bar. These all contribute to an overall feeling of quality in the board.  Any board with ABS caps that I have owned for years has developed a 1cm patch of shininess on the spacebar from my right thumb.  I don't know why this design has not caught on in todays keyboard climate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 13 November 2018, 06:43:11
Yep, more keyboards should ship with split spacebars.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 13 November 2018, 11:55:42

I never heard that in typing class.  I don't remember ever being given any instructions on how to use the space bar, and I ended up hitting it with either thumb more-or-less at random.  When I switched to split-spacebar keyboards it didn't take long to learn hitting space with my right thumb and backspace with my left thumb.  To me it's a big improvement over reaching waaay up to the corner and groping around for backspace with my pinkie!

We were taught in typing class, very specifically, to always use the shift key opposite the letter we were shifting.  If typing a letter with the left hand, use right-shift.  If typing a letter with the right hand, use left-shift.  To me this seems so obvious that I didn't even think about it being possible to do another way.  You want to try and hit two keys at the same time with one hand?  Madness!


Typing class is like Gym class..  It's an introductory..

The Teacher most likely has a very low lvl of Typing-Mastery..  Even compared to Scrubs on ol'Gekha..


While it's true that there is no absolute right/wrong way to type,  we are trying to weigh the habits of the faster typers.


Such as,  Right-Thumb Space,  Left Shift ONLY,  Ring-Finger ' Q ' ,
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: portbaron on Tue, 13 November 2018, 15:09:44

I never heard that in typing class.  I don't remember ever being given any instructions on how to use the space bar, and I ended up hitting it with either thumb more-or-less at random.  When I switched to split-spacebar keyboards it didn't take long to learn hitting space with my right thumb and backspace with my left thumb.  To me it's a big improvement over reaching waaay up to the corner and groping around for backspace with my pinkie!

We were taught in typing class, very specifically, to always use the shift key opposite the letter we were shifting.  If typing a letter with the left hand, use right-shift.  If typing a letter with the right hand, use left-shift.  To me this seems so obvious that I didn't even think about it being possible to do another way.  You want to try and hit two keys at the same time with one hand?  Madness!


Typing class is like Gym class..  It's an introductory..

The Teacher most likely has a very low lvl of Typing-Mastery..  Even compared to Scrubs on ol'Gekha..


While it's true that there is no absolute right/wrong way to type,  we are trying to weigh the habits of the faster typers.


Such as,  Right-Thumb Space,  Left Shift ONLY,  Ring-Finger ' Q ' ,

Nice, I do all those things. Maybe one day I can become typing master.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Tue, 13 November 2018, 15:50:29
Right-Thumb Space
Check.


Left Shift ONLY,

Check.


Ring-Finger ' Q '

No way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 13 November 2018, 16:33:35


Ring-Finger ' Q '

No way.


/Music/   If you want to be, the very best,  that no one ever wazzzz..   


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Wed, 21 November 2018, 10:33:03

The best Model M you can get is a brand new Unicomp Ultra Classic.

I don't know what bothers me more: that I agree with the second statement or that Unicomp doesn't make an SSK alternative.

The only way I can reconcile that thought in my brain is to assume you haven't tried a good vintage M (since individual specimens vary). Granted, I've only used one Unicomp, but it was such an atrocity that I sent it back for a refund. Model Ms from the '80s are much sturdier and the switch feel is great (as opposed to the Unicomp that felt like scraping a knife against a chalkboard). I do have a spare Unicomp barrel frame that didn't feel as bad when I put caps on it, but still not nearly as good as a vintage one, so maybe my Unicomp was just a lemon.

I'm curious, have you tried a recent (2014 or later) Unicomp? They have a somewhat lighter, crisper feel than previous Model Ms. I've tried a few other Model Ms, but none of them feel as light as the 2014 EnduraPro and 2016 Ultra Classic I've tried. It's a bit closer to the feel of a Model F, IMO, though the Model F is still distinctly different.

Yeah, the ones I used were made in 2016.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 9999hp on Wed, 21 November 2018, 10:43:32
30 dollar set of POM keycaps sounds the best
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 21 November 2018, 12:19:02
All mainstream keyboard vendors should revert back to the tried and true pebbles and cream keycap/case color scheme.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 21 November 2018, 16:44:38
It's pebble and pearl.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 21 November 2018, 19:14:54
It's pebble and pearl.

I feel like I'm 20 years younger all of a sudden. Thank you for the correction.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 2ndRoad805 on Thu, 22 November 2018, 00:22:08
1. Why do Retro-style Keycap sets like Godspeed and others exist in so many bland variations? They're as exciting as vanilla ice cream.
2. White ABS keycaps. Who cares if they're double shot for longevity when they'll look like piss in a decade from the yellowing.
3. Why do people use arrow keys and the navigation cluster? It's the equivalent of..well... you are a keyboard turner if you use arrows.
4. Why does the menu cap exist? Do people not utilize the right click on a mouse? Why would you cycle through every option in a menu with tab when you could go directly to it and click.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Thu, 22 November 2018, 01:28:38
1. Why do Retro-style Keycap sets like Godspeed and others exist in so many bland variations? They're as exciting as vanilla ice cream.

Yeah. Can we have, like.. Model M dyesubs with MX mount? Or a regular grey/beige keycap sets with colored modifiers (like Focus)?

Also don't forget there's always a GMK set with the same colors as the previous SA set. Yep, as exciting as a boiled potato. (I like vanilla ice cream)

GMK keycaps are ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Fri, 23 November 2018, 13:32:58
2. White ABS keycaps. Who cares if they're double shot for longevity when they'll look like piss in a decade from the yellowing.

I think the point is that they will be usable and legible for many decades, function over form.

Personally I don't think I'll ever try retrobrighting Wyse keycaps ever again as they seem to turn extremely brittle when done so.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: invariance on Fri, 23 November 2018, 16:55:35
3. Why do people use arrow keys and the navigation cluster? It's the equivalent of..well... you are a keyboard turner if you use arrows.
Don’t have to reach as far as to the mouse when navigating spreadsheets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Fri, 23 November 2018, 16:58:36
Spreadsheets are best filled with arrow keys.

Code editors are best used with a mouse though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Sat, 24 November 2018, 20:44:03
I only  use my right thumb to space.  There is so much wasted real-estate space on a keyboard.  The profiles could be made significantly smaller with a space bar of only 2.5 units.  It would also weigh less (more responsive) and have less wobble.  This would also quiet down that empty clack of the space bar. These all contribute to an overall feeling of quality in the board.  Any board with ABS caps that I have owned for years has developed a 1cm patch of shininess on the spacebar from my right thumb.  I don't know why this design has not caught on in todays keyboard climate.

Until very recently the split spacebar was patented.  Anybody wanting to produce a keyboard with split spacebar had to pay a royalty on it, and of course nobody was willing to do that.  Maybe now that the patent has expired this idea can start to make some inroads.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Little4Real on Sun, 25 November 2018, 16:50:32
Buckling Spring is the worst feeling switch I've ever used in my life
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 25 November 2018, 17:41:55
I am getting very confused. Has the thread gone off-topic?

From my perspective, spreadsheet navigation and numeric entry are the huge and irreconcilable attributes that separate the predominant camps.

Not unpopular, just realistic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheGlyph on Sun, 25 November 2018, 21:15:18
Until very recently the split spacebar was patented.  Anybody wanting to produce a keyboard with split spacebar had to pay a royalty on it, and of course nobody was willing to do that.  Maybe now that the patent has expired this idea can start to make some inroads.

Really? Who held/holds the patent?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: WireStart on Mon, 26 November 2018, 03:48:43
Keyboard fans are bad typer's. Also the older the keyboard the better it sounds
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: algernon on Mon, 26 November 2018, 04:44:30
Until very recently the split spacebar was patented.  Anybody wanting to produce a keyboard with split spacebar had to pay a royalty on it, and of course nobody was willing to do that.  Maybe now that the patent has expired this idea can start to make some inroads.

Really? Who held/holds the patent?

I think this is the patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5143462A/en, which seems to have expired in 2004 (not *very* recently, but at least in this century).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Mon, 26 November 2018, 10:42:58
3. Why do people use arrow keys and the navigation cluster? It's the equivalent of..well... you are a keyboard turner if you use arrows.
4. Why does the menu cap exist? Do people not utilize the right click on a mouse? Why would you cycle through every option in a menu with tab when you could go directly to it and click.

There are quite a few things in some applications that need to be done repetitively but are not close enough to each other on the UI that using a keyboard is faster or more comfortable. When using the right-click menu repetitively, the precision required with a mouse or trackball to select the items becomes very tedious. The software product my company sells is very lacking in keyboard navigation and shortcuts, and it's very annoying when running test cases or creating data for bug reproduction.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 26 November 2018, 23:19:34
3. Why do people use arrow keys and the navigation cluster? It's the equivalent of..well... you are a keyboard turner if you use arrows.
4. Why does the menu cap exist? Do people not utilize the right click on a mouse? Why would you cycle through every option in a menu with tab when you could go directly to it and click.
3: Text editor power-users use them a lot. If you are used to Mac/Windows-style editors, as opposed to emacs or vi. Each key does something with Shift, and in good text editors most do stuff with Ctrl or even Alt as well.
4: To me, it looks like the Menu key was idea that was never fully developed. Anyway, it is convenient to have a spare key that you could remap to Compose (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Compose_key).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blue_Moon on Tue, 27 November 2018, 14:00:21
3. Why do people use arrow keys and the navigation cluster? It's the equivalent of..well... you are a keyboard turner if you use arrows.

depends on how you're using the arrow keys. if you're holding down an arrow key to travel a long distance instead of clicking straight to the point, then yes, this is the equivalent of keyboard turning in an mmo. but if you're using it for a single press, then it isn't. for example, in at a command prompt, i can press the up arrow to retrieve my previous command. although i should be able to use the mouse to grab the scroll bar and scroll, this is a mess when there's hundreds of lines of empty buffer below the command prompt, in which case page up and page down are better

the same can be said for home and end. pressing them once to go to the beginning or end of a line is much easier than clicking
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Tue, 27 November 2018, 14:30:17
Alice got a gap tooth smile
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ramencup on Tue, 27 November 2018, 14:37:16
does anyone else hit spacebar with their right index finger instead of thumb?

i'd like to say that i'm not that bad of a typist otherwise, i average 100wpm
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blue_Moon on Tue, 27 November 2018, 15:03:14
does anyone else hit spacebar with their right index finger instead of thumb?

i'd like to say that i'm not that bad of a typist otherwise, i average 100wpm

not often but increasingly so since i got my ergodox. i never thought the apple keyboard was cramped, even though i saw a ridiculous picture of it on keyboard.io with cramped hands typing. "who types like that?" i thought. well now that i've got an ergodox with convenient thumb keys for space, i find that whenever i'm back on my apple keyboard (which i have to use since i use my macbook in my lap), the layout is really cramped. i have to reach my thumbs way up there to hit spacebar, so i often just use my index finger instead
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 27 November 2018, 15:22:19
Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Tue, 27 November 2018, 15:38:25
Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

She a butterface  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 27 November 2018, 16:14:58
Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

She a butterface  :rolleyes:

That didn't go the way I expected  :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Tue, 27 November 2018, 17:21:06
Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

She a butterface  :rolleyes:

That didn't go the way I expected  :confused:

 She got the angles :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 27 November 2018, 21:27:12
Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

She a butterface  :rolleyes:



Read somewhere that butterface is extremely offensive.

something about,  how it not only disparages someone's face, but also calls attention to their insecurity and or vanity for having made the best out of the rest of it.

Even though, in earnest, they're just playing the hand..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Tue, 27 November 2018, 21:53:47
Alice got a gap tooth smile

Kinda stating the obvious here..

She a butterface  :rolleyes:



Read somewhere that butterface is extremely offensive.

something about,  how it not only disparages someone's face, but also calls attention to their insecurity and or vanity for having made the best out of the rest of it.

Even though, in earnest, they're just playing the hand..


Right, like it would probably be my favorite to use but not look at. Which isn't really necessary anyway
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hayte on Fri, 30 November 2018, 08:15:35
Probably super unpopular opinion incoming:

I think mx clone/meme switches are all crap. They are all frankenstein like creations and they feel like it. Since I got a K-Type, I've been hotswapping them like crazy for the past 6 months. Cherrystotles, Zeliostotles, Holy Chickies, Holy Skies and Holy Pandas (I only have 6x Pandas though because holy cow the price).

I have clipped and unclipped Halo clear stems. I hate unclipped holy meme switches. The stem is tall enough to prematurely slam into all non Kailh switch housings. The sensation is like jamming an eraser into a sharp end of a pencil and then slamming the pencil blunt end down onto a desk. Clip the stems and you get a proper sounding bottom out but they never felt consistent (which is to be expected I suppose).

I hate using the Kailh switch housings for anything because Kailh has some problem with measuring things and many of them are extremely ill fitting on a K-Type plate (which has consistency problems but bog standard cherry switch housings mostly fit just fine).

Aristotle meme switches? They are more inconsistent than pre-retooled MX Blues and some of them have that MX Blue rattle from the click jacket rebounding except worse because they are Aristotles. The entire switch may as well be made out of cheese and the stems + click jackets are no different, regardless of the interesting design. If I was to ever go back to clicky switches, I wouldn't use anything remotely similar to MX Blue anyway and the Kailh click bar dream died along with my keycaps so thats a no go too.

I ended up coming full circle and swapped back to lubed, retooled MX Browns. They are better than any of the tactile meme switches I've tried. They don't misbehave with the light spring weight which I need to get through the worst data entry apocalpse days. They bottom out properly and consistently and they also sound good (when lubed anyway since the spring noise is irritating). The tactile event is tiny but I never felt anything about them was unpleasant or offensive. I still type the fastest on MX Browns.

I have come to realize that MX Browns and me are like some kind of perpetually failing but never quite failed marriage. After so many years of thinking theres better elsewhere, I found there really isn't and I keep coming back to my fat, balding faithful man, even if the latest tactile hotness has abs so chiselled they practically snap leaf springs as they slide down their greased up poles.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Fri, 30 November 2018, 16:32:31
Probably super unpopular opinion incoming:

I think mx clone/meme switches are all crap. They are all frankenstein like creations and they feel like it. Since I got a K-Type, I've been hotswapping them like crazy for the past 6 months. Cherrystotles, Zeliostotles, Holy Chickies, Holy Skies and Holy Pandas (I only have 6x Pandas though because holy cow the price).

I have clipped and unclipped Halo clear stems. I hate unclipped holy meme switches. The stem is tall enough to prematurely slam into all non Kailh switch housings. The sensation is like jamming an eraser into a sharp end of a pencil and then slamming the pencil blunt end down onto a desk. Clip the stems and you get a proper sounding bottom out but they never felt consistent (which is to be expected I suppose).

I hate using the Kailh switch housings for anything because Kailh has some problem with measuring things and many of them are extremely ill fitting on a K-Type plate (which has consistency problems but bog standard cherry switch housings mostly fit just fine).

Aristotle meme switches? They are more inconsistent than pre-retooled MX Blues and some of them have that MX Blue rattle from the click jacket rebounding except worse because they are Aristotles. The entire switch may as well be made out of cheese and the stems + click jackets are no different, regardless of the interesting design. If I was to ever go back to clicky switches, I wouldn't use anything remotely similar to MX Blue anyway and the Kailh click bar dream died along with my keycaps so thats a no go too.

I ended up coming full circle and swapped back to lubed, retooled MX Browns. They are better than any of the tactile meme switches I've tried. They don't misbehave with the light spring weight which I need to get through the worst data entry apocalpse days. They bottom out properly and consistently and they also sound good (when lubed anyway since the spring noise is irritating). The tactile event is tiny but I never felt anything about them was unpleasant or offensive. I still type the fastest on MX Browns.

I have come to realize that MX Browns and me are like some kind of perpetually failing but never quite failed marriage. After so many years of thinking theres better elsewhere, I found there really isn't and I keep coming back to my fat, balding faithful man, even if the latest tactile hotness has abs so chiselled they practically snap leaf springs as they slide down their greased up poles.

Regarding the click-bar switches, there are non-box versions (Kailh Speed Navy, for example) that don't have the oversized cross problem (I believe they're smaller than even the retooled BOX switches).

I haven't tried any of the frankenswitches, but I do think that the hype around certain switches is usually unwarranted. The only switches that ever knocked my socks off were BOX Navy and buckling spring. Everything else has either been out-right crap or somewhat underwhelming.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Ptolemy on Mon, 03 December 2018, 10:54:54
1. Paying over $100 for a Model M is absolutely ridiculous.(Got mine for 30 at VCF East)
2. Cherry MX Reds are the single worst switch I have ever used.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Mon, 03 December 2018, 12:53:22
1. Paying over $100 for a Model M is absolutely ridiculous.(Got mine for 30 at VCF East)
2. Cherry MX Reds are the single worst switch I have ever used.

Even in this country, in this day and age (where they're stupidly rare), I've seen one for 60 bucks. It was horribly dirty, but Model M for 60 bucks in this country.. that's kinda cheap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Justin_aka_OsP_SSJ4 on Mon, 03 December 2018, 18:11:42
- Asymmetric keyblockers make keyboards look like they are missing a tooth.
- GB's are given too much slack for mistakes and delays.
- Keycap manufacturers are taking everyone for a ride on pricing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 03 December 2018, 18:28:56
Holy Pandas suck
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 03 December 2018, 22:50:29
Aristotle meme switches? They are more inconsistent than pre-retooled MX Blues and some of them have that MX Blue rattle from the click jacket rebounding except worse because they are Aristotles. The entire switch may as well be made out of cheese and the stems + click jackets are no different, regardless of the interesting design. If I was to ever go back to clicky switches, I wouldn't use anything remotely similar to MX Blue anyway and the Kailh click bar dream died along with my keycaps so thats a no go too.

What's a meme switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gati on Fri, 07 December 2018, 16:58:57
Probably been said before, but I think that GMK is overhyped
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Fri, 07 December 2018, 17:05:27
Probably been said before, but I think that GMK is overhyped

I'll take pad printed PBT keycaps over GMK.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: romevi on Fri, 07 December 2018, 17:06:44
Probably been said before, but I think that GMK is overhyped

I like the profile, but that's pretty much it. Well, and they have good colors. But I think the legends are dated and ABS sounds and feels horrible compared to PBT.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Keycap on Sun, 09 December 2018, 21:09:47
i like mitsumi hybrids more than any mx type switch i've tried
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Tue, 11 December 2018, 18:19:49
I DON'T hate Cherry MY, I just got a Cherry G81-8000 and I seem to really like it for some reason, the increased force helps me not to bottom out and some WD-40 Specialist dry lube makes them very smooth. Typing on it right now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 11 December 2018, 18:37:55
every cherry style switch (including all modern clones like kailh) other than vintage black, brown, and clear suck
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Tue, 11 December 2018, 18:47:10
every cherry style switch (including all modern clones like kailh) other than vintage black, brown, and clear suck

no luv for the feelios?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: daerid on Fri, 14 December 2018, 00:47:28
Been a while since I chimed in here.

Current unpopular opinion: Romer-Gs are my favorite switch at the moment. Enough to make me forget about ABS caps
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lakiozoon on Fri, 14 December 2018, 11:42:40
There's nothing I find more useless and ugly than winkeyless keyboards.
Except maybe HHKB  :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: romevi on Fri, 14 December 2018, 11:43:32
every cherry style switch (including all modern clones like kailh) other than vintage black, brown, and clear suck

no luv for the feelios?


-ealios, to me, seem more meme than worth getting.


Been a while since I chimed in here.

Current unpopular opinion: Romer-Gs are my favorite switch at the moment. Enough to make me forget about ABS caps


I've heard great things about them, actually.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: limitz on Fri, 14 December 2018, 12:35:57
Let's hear them.

I'll start off.

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

2. I think HHKB boards are overrated, and the layout dumber than a Poker. I think custom MX, HHKB layout boards are just as stupid (Viper, Happy).

3. I think Topre is overrated, and lower quality than MX (despite the higher price) as the board tends to get stiffer over time.

Made this post about 4 years ago when I first got into the hobby, and would like to see if my opinions have changed:

1) I still dislike 60% boards due to the lack of arrow keys. 65% is the lowest I'll do.

2) No change in opinion here either. They look good, but the HHKB takes away the modifiers keys for the pinky to hit (like L/R Ctrl), it makes typing more frustrating, and simply keyboard shortcuts aren't available anymore (Ctrl + T for new Tab in Chrome)

3) I've softened on this one. I think Topre feels fine, just different. I own Topre boards, just don't use them due to poor keyset compatibility, and lack of custom keyboard options.

I think I'll add one:

4) -ealios are way overpriced and overhyped. The price is way too high per switch considering its just a Gateron custom, and I don't feel like you get what you pay for. I've tried 3 different rounds of different Zealios, and I could feel and hear the inconsistencies per switch. I think I needed roughly 100+ switches to get 84 consistent ones in sound. Very disappointed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Fri, 14 December 2018, 15:02:04
CoolerMaster Masterkeys Lite L is the best value-for-money keyboard you can buy new. At least the mouseless variant that's sold in Europe and maybe somewhere else. Easy to dissassemble, 100% compatible with aftermarket keycaps (kinda useful if you hate the stock keycaps), stock keycaps are doubleshot and the keyfeel isn't half bad either (very soft bottom and not that tactile, but it's frictionless and has some actual travel distance). If you hate backlighting, just turn it off. Boom, you now have blanks.

The only thing that kinda ruins the keyboard is the keycaps' texture, or lack thereof. The case is also spraypainted, so the corners will get ugly if you'll carry that thing around.

The combo variant is stupidly expensive unless you need the mouse. Backup mouse is nice, but the mouseless version costs literally half the combo's price.


/EDIT:
4) -ealios are way overpriced and overhyped. The price is way too high per switch considering its just a Gateron custom, and I don't feel like you get what you pay for. I've tried 3 different rounds of different Zealios, and I could feel and hear the inconsistencies per switch. I think I needed roughly 100+ switches to get 84 consistent ones in sound. Very disappointed.

I'll throw in mine:
The closest thing to Zealios I've tried are MX Browns, so my opionion of those purple things is: To me, Browns feel like slightly heavier Reds when typing. Given that Zealios share the same tactility principle as Browns, I'd guess you could get away with retooled Blacks and the typing experience would be almost the same.


And another opinion I just thought of now: Sound-wise, I prefer MX switches to nearly anything. That said, they're loud and the keyfeel is still awful - and along with inavaliability of any other keyboard switch (other than Romer-Gs and clones) and price in this second-world country is the reason why I still use rubberdomes. I'm sorry, but I can't justify paying 120-150$ for a keyboard that has painted keycaps and comes only with switches I don't like, even if it's otherwise perfect, aesthetics, stab and form factor wise.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Fri, 14 December 2018, 15:44:35

4) -ealios are way overpriced and overhyped. The price is way too high per switch considering its just a Gateron custom, and I don't feel like you get what you pay for. I've tried 3 different rounds of different Zealios, and I could feel and hear the inconsistencies per switch. I think I needed roughly 100+ switches to get 84 consistent ones in sound. Very disappointed.

I'll throw in mine:
The closest thing to Zealios I've tried are MX Browns, so my opionion of those purple things is: To me, Browns feel like slightly heavier Reds when typing. Given that Zealios share the same tactility principle as Browns, I'd guess you could get away with retooled Blacks and the typing experience would be almost the same.

The bump on Zealios is much more pronounced than MX Browns. Zealios definitely do not feel like linears, but they don't feel tactile enough for me, which I think is partly because they are so smooth, causing less resistance. IMO, the tactility in Zealios is just enough to break up the finger fatigue that linears give me (e.g., heavy linears with SA keycaps are unbearable), but it doesn't actually feel like a resistance my finger must overcome as with a rubber dome or BOX Royal. I'm not sure if I'd say Zealios disappointed me, but I don't think I will use them in any future builds. Royals are good, but they are a little tiring and have that "click" issue, which isn't a huge deal IMO, but it is there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gampela on Sat, 15 December 2018, 01:50:57
Mx hhkb boards with 7u spacebar just look weird.

The recent hhkb-like board from RAMA that I keep seeing on r/mk looks even weirder with that disproportionate forehead.

Edit. Actually, the only place 7u spacebar looks good on is wkl tenkeyless. But those seem very impractical. Thank you, I feel better already.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Sun, 16 December 2018, 06:07:31

The bump on Zealios is much more pronounced than MX Browns. Zealios definitely do not feel like linears, but they don't feel tactile enough for me, which I think is partly because they are so smooth, causing less resistance.

Maybe the same case is with my Masterkeys Lite L - it's definitely less tactile than, say, a Compaq KB9963, but maybe it's the frictionless travel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ArchDill on Sun, 16 December 2018, 10:09:11
The word "keeb" is stupid and annoying.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Sun, 16 December 2018, 10:09:41
That's actually a quite popular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Sun, 30 December 2018, 11:13:39
The world does not need yet another custom sub-full-size keyboard case. I think we’ve done 60-65% and TKL cases to death now, and it is time to try something different and challenging: custom full-size 104/108 alu cases. Oh, and be a doll and offer them in white; silver/gray is equivalent to not even trying.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Thu, 03 January 2019, 16:29:31
The world does not need yet another custom sub-full-size keyboard case. I think we’ve done 60-65% and TKL cases to death now, and it is time to try something different and challenging: custom full-size 104/108 alu cases. Oh, and be a doll and offer them in white; silver/gray is equivalent to not even trying.
Completely agree!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NegaYouDontKn0wMe on Thu, 03 January 2019, 16:39:09
Probably super unpopular opinion incoming:

I think mx clone/meme switches are all crap. They are all frankenstein like creations and they feel like it. Since I got a K-Type, I've been hotswapping them like crazy for the past 6 months. Cherrystotles, Zeliostotles, Holy Chickies, Holy Skies and Holy Pandas (I only have 6x Pandas though because holy cow the price).

I have clipped and unclipped Halo clear stems. I hate unclipped holy meme switches. The stem is tall enough to prematurely slam into all non Kailh switch housings. The sensation is like jamming an eraser into a sharp end of a pencil and then slamming the pencil blunt end down onto a desk. Clip the stems and you get a proper sounding bottom out but they never felt consistent (which is to be expected I suppose).

I hate using the Kailh switch housings for anything because Kailh has some problem with measuring things and many of them are extremely ill fitting on a K-Type plate (which has consistency problems but bog standard cherry switch housings mostly fit just fine).

Aristotle meme switches? They are more inconsistent than pre-retooled MX Blues and some of them have that MX Blue rattle from the click jacket rebounding except worse because they are Aristotles. The entire switch may as well be made out of cheese and the stems + click jackets are no different, regardless of the interesting design. If I was to ever go back to clicky switches, I wouldn't use anything remotely similar to MX Blue anyway and the Kailh click bar dream died along with my keycaps so thats a no go too.

I ended up coming full circle and swapped back to lubed, retooled MX Browns. They are better than any of the tactile meme switches I've tried. They don't misbehave with the light spring weight which I need to get through the worst data entry apocalpse days. They bottom out properly and consistently and they also sound good (when lubed anyway since the spring noise is irritating). The tactile event is tiny but I never felt anything about them was unpleasant or offensive. I still type the fastest on MX Browns.

I have come to realize that MX Browns and me are like some kind of perpetually failing but never quite failed marriage. After so many years of thinking theres better elsewhere, I found there really isn't and I keep coming back to my fat, balding faithful man, even if the latest tactile hotness has abs so chiselled they practically snap leaf springs as they slide down their greased up poles.

where could i get one of those Meme switch keyboards for cheap?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mattlach on Fri, 04 January 2019, 17:27:29
I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

I'm with you on this.   Not only do I insist on arrow keys, but I will also never buy a keyboard without a full numerical section on the right.

All 104 keys or I'm not buying under any circumstance.


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mattlach on Fri, 04 January 2019, 17:28:32
Here is one:

I think all Cherry switches are too light and not clicky enough.   Even the Greens.   I want heavier and clickier keys!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Fri, 04 January 2019, 17:29:54
If Planck keyboards were horses, a good cowboy would have to shoot them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 04 January 2019, 17:33:54
If Planck keyboards were horses, a good cowboy would have to shoot them.

dang
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheGlyph on Fri, 04 January 2019, 18:39:48
The world does not need yet another custom sub-full-size keyboard case. I think we’ve done 60-65% and TKL cases to death now, and it is time to try something different and challenging: custom full-size 104/108 alu cases. Oh, and be a doll and offer them in white; silver/gray is equivalent to not even trying.

Full size hyyype!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TuCZnak on Sun, 31 March 2019, 10:30:38
75% is the best layout and deserves more love, as compact as 60% yet you're not missing any keys apart from numpad, pause/break and scroll lock.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Telstar on Sun, 31 March 2019, 10:41:20
75% is the best layout and deserves more love.

yes, but with iso option.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TuCZnak on Sun, 31 March 2019, 10:42:51
75% is the best layout and deserves more love.

yes, but with iso option.

ISO > ANSI is not an unpopular opinion, it's the objective truth  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Sun, 31 March 2019, 10:46:02
An unpopular truth in Damnerica though. I couldn't type on those Japanese-penis-sized Enter keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nguyenhimself on Sun, 31 March 2019, 10:51:10
Unpopular opinion:

I can’t believe this thread is allowed to exist. It stands against of the very spirit of this forum.

The whole point of this hobby, this forum, of getting a custom keyboard, is to finally have a keyboard *just for you*. Everything from the case to the switch and layout and keycaps and etc was decided by you to satisfy you and you alone.

Which is to say, who are you to come in and look down on other people for not liking things that you like? OF COURSE something that was designed from the get go to fit someone’s personal preferences would not be for you. That’s the whole point of building a custom keyboard.

In other words, stop being so judgmental, jeez.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: blawb on Sun, 31 March 2019, 12:48:25
Full size hyyype!

But then I have to move my hand sooooo far to get to my mouse
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doluded on Sun, 31 March 2019, 13:43:39
Unpopular opinion:

I can’t believe this thread is allowed to exist. It stands against of the very spirit of this forum.

The whole point of this hobby, this forum, of getting a custom keyboard, is to finally have a keyboard *just for you*. Everything from the case to the switch and layout and keycaps and etc was decided by you to satisfy you and you alone.

Which is to say, who are you to come in and look down on other people for not liking things that you like? OF COURSE something that was designed from the get go to fit someone’s personal preferences would not be for you. That’s the whole point of building a custom keyboard.

In other words, stop being so judgmental, jeez.
no u
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 31 March 2019, 13:45:02
I can’t believe this thread is allowed to exist. It stands against of the very spirit of this forum.
...
Which is to say, who are you to come in and look down on other people for not liking things that you like?
Nah. You misunderstand. The point of this thread is to speak your mind and not be judgemental against those who speak their minds.
... And to see that there are other people who have the same opinions as you, when you thought that your opinion was unusual.
Even if people don't criticise you, there is still some groupthink on the forum because some people simply post more, show more, and/or are louder than others, making some preferences look more "valid" than others.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 31 March 2019, 18:27:41
keyboards are a waste of money


[attachimg=1]


[attachimg=2]


[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sdhebert on Sun, 31 March 2019, 22:11:59
This looks like fun.

1. Real Cherry switches are scratchy crap. All of them. And brown is awful.

2. The only good Halo switches are ones that are dismantled and put into other switches.

3. Xda is like typing directly on a desk surface. Why do people do this to themselves?

4. DSA is overrated.

5. EnjoyPBT is vastly underrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ollir_ on Mon, 01 April 2019, 13:25:34
Unpopular opinion:

I can’t believe this thread is allowed to exist. It stands against of the very spirit of this forum.

The whole point of this hobby, this forum, of getting a custom keyboard, is to finally have a keyboard *just for you*. Everything from the case to the switch and layout and keycaps and etc was decided by you to satisfy you and you alone.

Which is to say, who are you to come in and look down on other people for not liking things that you like? OF COURSE something that was designed from the get go to fit someone’s personal preferences would not be for you. That’s the whole point of building a custom keyboard.

In other words, stop being so judgmental, jeez.

This hobby is not about building custom keyboards alone. Thanks for remembering us old farts who just want to ride on the most kick ass vintage boards they can get their hands on and then talk crap about sh**ty modern switches that are typed on by d*ckfingers with asses for ears who think MX blues sound good and there's some character to MX browns.

On a more serious note, I think this thread is a good way to let some steam out and vent a bit if there's something one finds frustrating about the trends of the hobby or the community or whatever it is that's bugging one at the moment.




Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doluded on Mon, 01 April 2019, 13:36:26
Unpopular opinion:

I can’t believe this thread is allowed to exist. It stands against of the very spirit of this forum.

The whole point of this hobby, this forum, of getting a custom keyboard, is to finally have a keyboard *just for you*. Everything from the case to the switch and layout and keycaps and etc was decided by you to satisfy you and you alone.

Which is to say, who are you to come in and look down on other people for not liking things that you like? OF COURSE something that was designed from the get go to fit someone’s personal preferences would not be for you. That’s the whole point of building a custom keyboard.

In other words, stop being so judgmental, jeez.

This hobby is not about building custom keyboards alone. Thanks for remembering us old farts who just want to ride on the most kick ass vintage boards they can get their hands on and then talk crap about sh**ty modern switches that are typed on by d*ckfingers with asses for ears who think MX blues sound good and there's some character to MX browns.

On a more serious note, I think this thread is a good way to let some steam out and vent a bit if there's something one finds frustrating about the trends of the hobby or the community or whatever it is that's bugging one at the moment.
Yah MX blues suck cock. Razer greens tho? Mmmmmmmmmmm that’s some good ****.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Telstar on Mon, 01 April 2019, 16:15:22
Yah MX blues suck cock. Razer greens tho? Mmmmmmmmmmm that’s some good ****.

they are about the same. perhaps you meant the purples.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Mon, 01 April 2019, 16:17:07
After throwing my Masterkeys Lite L in a box and spending some time with a QF TK with MX Browns, I can say....



.... browns are actually really good.

Also - an ideal spacebar should sound like an earthquake, not like bubble wrap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gampela on Tue, 02 April 2019, 12:23:23
I really dislike it when keyboards use different sized modifier keys on each side of the spacebar. Like for example 1.25u mods on the left and 1.5u on the right. For me it's a horrific eyesore.

(https://i.imgur.com/ccvD47x.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: the_ambyguous on Fri, 05 April 2019, 13:00:46
Probably super unpopular opinion incoming:

I think mx clone/meme switches are all crap. They are all frankenstein like creations and they feel like it. Since I got a K-Type, I've been hotswapping them like crazy for the past 6 months. Cherrystotles, Zeliostotles, Holy Chickies, Holy Skies and Holy Pandas (I only have 6x Pandas though because holy cow the price).

I have clipped and unclipped Halo clear stems. I hate unclipped holy meme switches. The stem is tall enough to prematurely slam into all non Kailh switch housings. The sensation is like jamming an eraser into a sharp end of a pencil and then slamming the pencil blunt end down onto a desk. Clip the stems and you get a proper sounding bottom out but they never felt consistent (which is to be expected I suppose).

I hate using the Kailh switch housings for anything because Kailh has some problem with measuring things and many of them are extremely ill fitting on a K-Type plate (which has consistency problems but bog standard cherry switch housings mostly fit just fine).

Aristotle meme switches? They are more inconsistent than pre-retooled MX Blues and some of them have that MX Blue rattle from the click jacket rebounding except worse because they are Aristotles. The entire switch may as well be made out of cheese and the stems + click jackets are no different, regardless of the interesting design. If I was to ever go back to clicky switches, I wouldn't use anything remotely similar to MX Blue anyway and the Kailh click bar dream died along with my keycaps so thats a no go too.

I ended up coming full circle and swapped back to lubed, retooled MX Browns. They are better than any of the tactile meme switches I've tried. They don't misbehave with the light spring weight which I need to get through the worst data entry apocalpse days. They bottom out properly and consistently and they also sound good (when lubed anyway since the spring noise is irritating). The tactile event is tiny but I never felt anything about them was unpleasant or offensive. I still type the fastest on MX Browns.

I have come to realize that MX Browns and me are like some kind of perpetually failing but never quite failed marriage. After so many years of thinking theres better elsewhere, I found there really isn't and I keep coming back to my fat, balding faithful man, even if the latest tactile hotness has abs so chiselled they practically snap leaf springs as they slide down their greased up poles.

I think I've found your problem. You haven't tried Alps
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 07 April 2019, 19:57:46
The whole point of this hobby, this forum, of getting a custom keyboard, is to finally have a keyboard *just for you*. Everything from the case to the switch and layout and keycaps and etc was decided by you to satisfy you and you alone.

Which is to say, who are you to come in and look down on other people for not liking things that you like? OF COURSE something that was designed from the get go to fit someone’s personal preferences would not be for you. That’s the whole point of building a custom keyboard.

Did I miss the giant banner that says "Geekhack, custom keyboard enthusiasts"?

Damn, should I take my Realforce and Model Ms off my signature because they miss the whole point of this hobby and this forum?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Sun, 07 April 2019, 20:00:06
Damn, should I take my Realforce and Model Ms off my signature because they miss the whole point of this hobby and this forum?

Also, no Alps!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 07 April 2019, 20:03:43
Damn, should I take my Realforce and Model Ms off my signature because they miss the whole point of this hobby and this forum?

Also, no Alps!

Well, I did ditch the Omnikey :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Winrar on Wed, 10 April 2019, 19:09:05
This might be unpopular:

Mid-90's Lexmark and IBM-Greenock made Model Ms feel and sound better than IBM-Made 80's-early 90's Model Ms. My 2019 Unicomp Ultra Classic feels and sounds as good as any of my other Model Ms.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fanpeople on Thu, 11 April 2019, 01:33:43
This might be unpopular:

Mid-90's Lexmark and IBM-Greenock made Model Ms feel and sound better than IBM-Made 80's-early 90's Model Ms. My 2019 Unicomp Ultra Classic feels and sounds as good as any of my other Model Ms.

OOOOOWWWWWWWW....... out of all the comments in this thread, this right here is the real deal.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Winrar on Thu, 11 April 2019, 10:01:51
This might be unpopular:

Mid-90's Lexmark and IBM-Greenock made Model Ms feel and sound better than IBM-Made 80's-early 90's Model Ms. My 2019 Unicomp Ultra Classic feels and sounds as good as any of my other Model Ms.

OOOOOWWWWWWWW....... out of all the comments in this thread, this right here is the real deal.

Not kidding. My daily driver is an early 1990 unit. I bought it with the full bolt mod and lubed space bar stabilizers and it has a smooth click none of my other Model M's comes close to. But without a bolt mod, 93-onward Model Ms feel clackier and crisper IMO. Same with Unicomps.

Maybe it comes from less worn springs or something like that, but that is how I feel them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lightsout714 on Fri, 12 April 2019, 19:30:12
Browns are the best of the common switch types. (everyone seems to hate on them anymore)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vegs on Sat, 20 April 2019, 17:52:05
Unpopular opinion incoming - the community has been moving towards using thicker lubes because it's easy to make even the scratchiest switches sound smooth. At the same time it sacrifices a lot of the original switch feel, whereas thin lube retains it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Sat, 20 April 2019, 17:53:46
If you need to lube your switches, you chose the wrong switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 20 April 2019, 18:21:59
If you need to lube your switches, you chose the wrong switches.
That's quite the claim
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Thu, 25 April 2019, 03:31:30
If you need to lube your switches, you chose the wrong switches.

Wrong! Everything is better with lube.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TuCZnak on Thu, 25 April 2019, 09:29:58
If you need to lube your switches, you chose the wrong switches.

Wrong! Everything is better with lube.

Optoelectricals would like a word with you
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mkkeyboardvigilante on Thu, 02 May 2019, 20:43:12
I like Realforce boards exactly the way they are and don't feel the need to mod them that much. The build quality on these things really does a good job already in making the board feel quiet enough as it is for me. HHKB on the other hand, amazing board in its own right, but way too loud for night time use, and that's why I can't wait for my silencing rings from KBDFans to get here soon...

I still like a decent scissor switch board, which is why I still have my Logitech K740 that I like to pull out from time to time.

As long as my keyboard doesn't look like a greasy mess, I would not mind having good quality ABS caps.

Even though I'm a light typist, more and more I'm realizing I never liked light linear switches as much as I do with more tactile ones for everyday typing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nappis on Fri, 03 May 2019, 06:49:06
Key cap base set should only cover TKL nothing more nothing less. It's really annoying that people with some obscure boards feel like designers should include caps just for their layouts.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Sat, 04 May 2019, 19:40:17
Also - an ideal spacebar should sound like an earthquake, not like bubble wrap.

Speaking of which - unlubed switches sound better than lubed ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 05 May 2019, 10:49:16
Also - an ideal spacebar should sound like an earthquake, not like bubble wrap.

Speaking of which - unlubed switches sound better than lubed ones.


certainly clicky,  but the linear sound more/less the same.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azhdar on Sun, 05 May 2019, 11:00:07
Clicky switches are just wrong.
If you need to hear a click to know that the keystroke registered then it's bad.
Just like if your keyboard would bip each time a keystroke register.
Tactility should provide you that info.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ollir_ on Mon, 06 May 2019, 00:11:19
Clicky switches are just wrong.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 06 May 2019, 01:11:47
Clicky switches are just wrong.
If you need to hear a click to know that the keystroke registered then it's bad.
Just like if your keyboard would bip each time a keystroke register.
Tactility should provide you that info.

Let me rephrase it: Clicky switches, in a switch that does not need a click as part of the operational design, are an affectation.

That captures all MX-style clicky switches, where the click adds complexity (and frankly sounds like tinny crap) but no function, but the clicks from BS are an integral part of the mechanism (and sound a lot better).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TeacherGeek on Mon, 06 May 2019, 01:14:01
I think you guys are too willing to pay overs for custom keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevadu on Mon, 06 May 2019, 13:15:14
Let me rephrase it: Clicky switches, in a switch that does not need a click as part of the operational design, are an affectation.

That captures all MX-style clicky switches, where the click adds complexity (and frankly sounds like tinny crap) but no function, but the clicks from BS are an integral part of the mechanism (and sound a lot better).

Actually the whole purpose of the original MX blue design was to introduce hysteresis.  The click is a side effect.

Furthermore I have yet to find any tactile switch with tactility as clean and sharp as a good clicky switch.  Box Royals are probably the closest but they have their own issues.  The fact is sharp tactile mechanisms also tend to make noise...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dubious on Thu, 09 May 2019, 18:33:37
I think you guys are too willing to pay overs for custom keyboards.

p much
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Sat, 11 May 2019, 10:35:27
- From a usability perspective (not customizability), non-standard bottom rows are better than standard. Why would you need a 1.5u Windows key?
- I actually like the el cheapo doubleshots from AliExpress (also known as GMMK stock caps). You still get what you pay for (they're still 1mm thin and have molding marks around the letters), but you still get caps that are better than stock caps on many backlit keyboards and look more "professional" than the other cheap doubleshots. Also you can use them with or without backlighting.
- I post in this thread way too often.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 11 May 2019, 10:54:32
Ping in switch springs is great.
Wide-steel click leaf switches in 60% keyboards sound terrible.
Mantis-foot click leaves sound good in small chassis and wide-steel click leaves sound the best in large chassis with a metal mounting plate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Sat, 11 May 2019, 21:04:37
):(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Sat, 11 May 2019, 21:06:03
Clicky switches are just wrong.
If you need to hear a click to know that the keystroke registered then it's bad.
Just like if your keyboard would bip each time a keystroke register.
Tactility should provide you that info.

Well, i could say the same for tactility.
If i need to feel a bump that the keystroke registered then it's bad.
Just like if your keyboard would feel a slight bump each time a keystroke would register.
Audible feedback should provide you that info.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Mon, 27 May 2019, 20:28:20
1. Paying over $100 for a Model M is absolutely ridiculous.(Got mine for 30 at VCF East)
2. Cherry MX Reds are the single worst switch I have ever used.

D:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: packleadercho on Mon, 27 May 2019, 20:55:29
Clicky switches are just wrong.
If you need to hear a click to know that the keystroke registered then it's bad.
Just like if your keyboard would bip each time a keystroke register.
Tactility should provide you that info.

Well, i could say the same for tactility.
If i need to feel a bump that the keystroke registered then it's bad.
Just like if your keyboard would feel a slight bump each time a keystroke would register.
Audible feedback should provide you that info.
I don't hate clicky switches, but I think his point is that the audible feedback can feel somewhat redundant. Most clicky switches already provide a good deal of tactility, so the audible feedback may seem unnecessary to some. Also, loud, clicky keyboards' association with a bygone era may contribute to some people's impression of clickiness being antiquated/pointless.

With that said, it's worth considering that for some switches, the mechanism that generates the click is crucial to the how the switch generates tactility. Box clicky switches are a good example. The sharp tactile response of box navies, jades, etc. isn't really replicable in other non-clicky box switches because the click bar is responsible for that tactility. You can make a switch tactile without making it click, but it won't necessarily feel the same way.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 27 May 2019, 21:25:09
I think that a switch should be as silent as possible, except for a tiny sound on actuation that would only be noticeable you yourself and by nobody else in the room.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nappis on Tue, 28 May 2019, 05:36:20
- From a usability perspective (not customizability), non-standard bottom rows are better than standard. Why would you need a 1.5u Windows key?

From usability perspective: non-standard bottom rows are bad. Space bar is not centered to the position of your hands (thumbs). Standard bottom row has space bar right: center of the space bar is on line to the gap between G and H keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 28 May 2019, 05:57:24
Clicky switches are just wrong.
If you need to hear a click to know that the keystroke registered then it's bad.
Just like if your keyboard would bip each time a keystroke register.
Tactility should provide you that info.

Well, i could say the same for tactility.
If i need to feel a bump that the keystroke registered then it's bad.
Just like if your keyboard would feel a slight bump each time a keystroke would register.
Audible feedback should provide you that info.
I don't hate clicky switches, but I think his point is that the audible feedback can feel somewhat redundant. Most clicky switches already provide a good deal of tactility, so the audible feedback may seem unnecessary to some. Also, loud, clicky keyboards' association with a bygone era may contribute to some people's impression of clickiness being antiquated/pointless.

With that said, it's worth considering that for some switches, the mechanism that generates the click is crucial to the how the switch generates tactility. Box clicky switches are a good example. The sharp tactile response of box navies, jades, etc. isn't really replicable in other non-clicky box switches because the click bar is responsible for that tactility. You can make a switch tactile without making it click, but it won't necessarily feel the same way.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Sintpinty agrees with the "audible switches already have some tactility." She needs more linear clack, however both audible and tactile feedback is preferred .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: actualglacier on Tue, 28 May 2019, 06:30:40
I don't have many unpopular opinions but I do have one very strong opinion that is keyboard related.

Flipped spacebar is one of the worst things that anyone has ever come up with. It just looks bad. I am a strong believer that if you feel like your spacebar is digging into your thumb, then your wrists are probably too low when you are typing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 28 May 2019, 07:32:33
I think that MK's stuff is overpriced and that us as community tend to fuel the overpricing by showing willingness to pay premiums so easily. Artisan's, GMK, Topre, Zeal's stuff and other similar items are good examples. All MK economy is like a deep distortion field. In some instances, people trying to develop low cost things are heavily criticized.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 28 May 2019, 07:34:10
I don't have many unpopular opinions but I do have one very strong opinion that is keyboard related.

Flipped spacebar is one of the worst things that anyone has ever come up with. It just looks bad. I am a strong believer that if you feel like your spacebar is digging into your thumb, then your wrists are probably too low when you are typing.

I've never been a fan of flipped spacebars either, I think it looks horrendous on a board & like you said if the spacebar is digging into your thumbs get a wrist rest.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hamilton on Tue, 28 May 2019, 11:47:22
I don't like Git Modifiers, and as a developer I would be embarrassed to have them in front of coworkers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Tue, 28 May 2019, 13:02:22
- From a usability perspective (not customizability), non-standard bottom rows are better than standard. Why would you need a 1.5u Windows key?

From usability perspective: non-standard bottom rows are bad. Space bar is not centered to the position of your hands (thumbs). Standard bottom row has space bar right: center of the space bar is on line to the gap between G and H keys.

Yeah, but unless you have a 2u spacebar, I don't think you would care if the spacebar is centered.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 28 May 2019, 14:24:49
I don't have many unpopular opinions but I do have one very strong opinion that is keyboard related.

Flipped spacebar is one of the worst things that anyone has ever come up with. It just looks bad. I am a strong believer that if you feel like your spacebar is digging into your thumb, then your wrists are probably too low when you are typing.

Absolutely! I personally feel it doesn't have enough coverage for my index finger(which i cover with ) and it's really stiff.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TuCZnak on Tue, 28 May 2019, 14:34:09
I don't have many unpopular opinions but I do have one very strong opinion that is keyboard related.

Flipped spacebar is one of the worst things that anyone has ever come up with. It just looks bad. I am a strong believer that if you feel like your spacebar is digging into your thumb, then your wrists are probably too low when you are typing.

That's probably because Cherry profile spacebar is the worst spacebar profile commonly available, so people had to invent this horrible workaround, that's just how bad it is. I have no problems typing on SA or DSA spacebar but can't for the life of me not hit the edge of Cherry spacebar. Long fingers also amplify the problem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 28 May 2019, 19:36:57
I don't have many unpopular opinions but I do have one very strong opinion that is keyboard related.

Flipped spacebar is one of the worst things that anyone has ever come up with. It just looks bad. I am a strong believer that if you feel like your spacebar is digging into your thumb, then your wrists are probably too low when you are typing.

That's probably because Cherry profile spacebar is the worst spacebar profile commonly available, so people had to invent this horrible workaround, that's just how bad it is. I have no problems typing on SA or DSA spacebar but can't for the life of me not hit the edge of Cherry spacebar. Long fingers also amplify the problem.

G20 spacebar is lit
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 29 May 2019, 02:15:11
I don't have many unpopular opinions but I do have one very strong opinion that is keyboard related.

Flipped spacebar is one of the worst things that anyone has ever come up with. It just looks bad. I am a strong believer that if you feel like your spacebar is digging into your thumb, then your wrists are probably too low when you are typing.

I thought it was mostly a fashion statement.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tobiasvl on Wed, 29 May 2019, 02:26:30
The ANSI layout is the ugliest. It wastes a 1.5u key on an alphanum key, but visual symmetry is usually broken anyway because of keycap colors.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appaboy on Fri, 31 May 2019, 02:43:31
Super duper shiny brass or pvd coated stuff is really ugly. Sandblast that ****

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 31 May 2019, 15:04:09
I don't have many unpopular opinions but I do have one very strong opinion that is keyboard related.

Flipped spacebar is one of the worst things that anyone has ever come up with. It just looks bad. I am a strong believer that if you feel like your spacebar is digging into your thumb, then your wrists are probably too low when you are typing.

Flipped spacebar looks weird, and it hurts to type because of how stiff it is. Ow!  :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 31 May 2019, 20:26:46
I don't have many unpopular opinions but I do have one very strong opinion that is keyboard related.

Flipped spacebar is one of the worst things that anyone has ever come up with. It just looks bad. I am a strong believer that if you feel like your spacebar is digging into your thumb, then your wrists are probably too low when you are typing.

I've never been a fan of flipped spacebars either, I think it looks horrendous on a board & like you said if the spacebar is digging into your thumbs get a wrist rest.
I thought it was mostly a fashion statement.

When will ya'll understand true nirvana?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40658.msg1607440#msg1607440
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40658.msg1607949#msg1607949

Preview:
(https://i.imgur.com/p5xtPal.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 31 May 2019, 20:34:51
I don't have many unpopular opinions but I do have one very strong opinion that is keyboard related.

Flipped spacebar is one of the worst things that anyone has ever come up with. It just looks bad. I am a strong believer that if you feel like your spacebar is digging into your thumb, then your wrists are probably too low when you are typing.

I've never been a fan of flipped spacebars either, I think it looks horrendous on a board & like you said if the spacebar is digging into your thumbs get a wrist rest.
I thought it was mostly a fashion statement.

When will ya'll understand true nirvana?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40658.msg1607440#msg1607440
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40658.msg1607949#msg1607949

Preview:
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/p5xtPal.jpg)


dang
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Sat, 01 June 2019, 02:18:50
There is no "home row", it only exists in your mind to rectify your dumb keyboard layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TuCZnak on Sat, 01 June 2019, 02:32:42
This may be just me being a neanderthal, but different mounts and metals have no discernable effect on typing feel. I can't tell a difference between aluminium plate tray mount vs brass plate top mount.
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doluded on Sat, 01 June 2019, 02:32:52
There is no "home row", it only exists in your mind to rectify your dumb keyboard layout.
Yeah, alright guy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Sat, 01 June 2019, 18:31:10
There is no "home row", it only exists in your mind to rectify your dumb keyboard layout.

Or government-approved typing methods.

Shift-A-S-D is a much better hand position than A-S-D-F, anyways.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tobiasvl on Sun, 02 June 2019, 16:08:43
Now that sounds like an idea. I'm thinking split left shift (ie. ISO key), with A on the left shift key, and SDFG moved one key to the left. Shift could go on left alt maybe. Left CTRL on Caps Lock, of course, like God intended. On the right shift we have ;: and that row is also shifted one key to the right. Spacebar in the middle? Or the layout could just be tented.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: flurryvelvet on Sun, 02 June 2019, 20:40:06
Scorpius dome with sliders sound more like Alps SKCM clicky switches than BTC dome with sliders.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venatorious on Wed, 12 June 2019, 12:37:08
All artisans look like trash  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 12 June 2019, 13:32:10
All artisans look like trash  :rolleyes:

But people put hard work into it... thats what i respect about it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Wed, 12 June 2019, 22:39:27
All artisans look like trash  :rolleyes:
 
I can agree with that in most cases. Especially when 'artisan makers' roll out their kindergarten playdoh level monstrosity and charge $40+ a pop for them, it's a desperate cashgrab.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SlipperyPeteED on Thu, 13 June 2019, 02:40:18
GMK Necro is a fantastic set.
Plastic keyboards often sound better than aluminum ones.
Maxkeys SA sets are on par with SP in terms of quality (at least they are now).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Thu, 13 June 2019, 05:09:46
GMK Necro is a fantastic set.
Plastic keyboards often sound better than aluminum ones.
Maxkeys SA sets are on par with SP in terms of quality (at least they are now).

I keep hearing this metallic rattling every time i type fast
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 14 June 2019, 05:27:17
I don't have many unpopular opinions but I do have one very strong opinion that is keyboard related.

Flipped spacebar is one of the worst things that anyone has ever come up with. It just looks bad. I am a strong believer that if you feel like your spacebar is digging into your thumb, then your wrists are probably too low when you are typing.

I've never been a fan of flipped spacebars either, I think it looks horrendous on a board & like you said if the spacebar is digging into your thumbs get a wrist rest.

Flipped space bars are fundamentally wrong.

You are not alone.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 14 June 2019, 08:25:26
Flipped space bars are fundamentally wrong.

You are not alone.

This is for the most part true, but on certain vintage boards(for example my Wyse PCE) the spacebar is super harsh on the angle and flipping it actually makes the typing experience better.  On any modern board I don't agree with it, the Wyse is the only keyboard I flip the spacebar on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 14 June 2019, 18:05:19
Flipped space bars are fundamentally wrong.

You are not alone.

This is for the most part true, but on certain vintage boards(for example my Wyse PCE) the spacebar is super harsh on the angle and flipping it actually makes the typing experience better.  On any modern board I don't agree with it, the Wyse is the only keyboard I flip the spacebar on.

On pretty much all of my keyboards the space bar is the same profile as the rest of the bottom row, but is convex whereas Alt/Ctrl etc. are concave.

I did try flipping a space bar once, at the insistence of someone here, and the experience was not pleasant.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Sat, 15 June 2019, 08:41:46
Flipped space bars are fundamentally wrong.

You are not alone.

This is for the most part true, but on certain vintage boards(for example my Wyse PCE) the spacebar is super harsh on the angle and flipping it actually makes the typing experience better.  On any modern board I don't agree with it, the Wyse is the only keyboard I flip the spacebar on.

On pretty much all of my keyboards the space bar is the same profile as the rest of the bottom row, but is convex whereas Alt/Ctrl etc. are concave.

I did try flipping a space bar once, at the insistence of someone here, and the experience was not pleasant.

They look extremely painful to use. No thank you, i'd rather have my space bar flat where my fingers can reach it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RominRonin on Sat, 15 June 2019, 14:33:42
Probably been said before, but I think that GMK is overhyped

- Keycap manufacturers are taking everyone for a ride on pricing.

75% is the best layout and deserves more love, as compact as 60% yet you're not missing any keys apart from numpad, pause/break and scroll lock.

Agreed, agreed and agreed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rpiguy9907 on Mon, 17 June 2019, 10:04:56
The CA66 is ugly AF. The keyboard it took inspiration from was cute, but the CA66 with its enormous logo, light strip and 65% layout enshrines a particularly awful form of hideousness I cannot put into words.

Were it just a 60% or HHKB layout without the CA66 logo it would look a whole lot better.

Every time I see one of these things sell for like $500 I laugh.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venaros on Mon, 17 June 2019, 13:50:04
Model M's sound bad
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Mon, 17 June 2019, 15:27:20
Model M's sound bad

I don't think opinions like this are accepted even in this thread.


/s
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Mon, 17 June 2019, 15:53:16
Model M's sound bad

Adding one more: Model Ms and similarly big vintage keyboards are just too big.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RominRonin on Mon, 17 June 2019, 18:53:16
Metals are overused in case designs, switch plates are overrated (or pcb flex is underrated) and any designs underneath your keyboard (but especially brass weights) are overpriced luxuries that make you look stupid when showing them off.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tactile on Mon, 17 June 2019, 19:28:21
Been several months since I used my 55 gram Realforce TKL so I dug it out of the closet & hooked it up. Just for fun I folded the legs down to tilt the board... and I love it!!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 17 June 2019, 19:36:32
topre

yikes  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Tue, 18 June 2019, 12:13:21
Been several months since I used my 55 gram Realforce TKL so I dug it out of the closet & hooked it up. Just for fun I folded the legs down to tilt the board... and I love it!!!

I used to hate using the flip out feet on keyboards, but something happened a few months ago, and now I have to flip the feet down on every keyboard, or else it feels weird to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: c3h on Thu, 20 June 2019, 13:23:17
1. Model M/Fs sound horrible
I dislike the buckling sound.

2. Most switches are too heavy
Love my 30g Topre. Anything heavier requires too much effort to press imo

3. Japanese keyboards shouldn't have kana legends
No secret only 5-10% of Japanese use kana input method anyways.

4. SA (or any other spherical high profile keycaps) are not for 'real' typing
They are nice to lay your fingers down though. Just not optimal for moving between rows.

5. Custom built cases.
Don't like metal cases; they feel too cold to touch due too great thermal conductivity.
Polystyrene case might be a better idea I guess:P. Warm, light, quiet and inexpensive.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: directheatedtriode on Mon, 24 June 2019, 13:12:59
All artisans look like trash  :rolleyes:
 
I can agree with that in most cases. Especially when 'artisan makers' roll out their kindergarten playdoh level monstrosity and charge $40+ a pop for them, it's a desperate cashgrab.

The raffles as a way to get people to buy them is what really makes me roll my eyes. Just comes off as incredibly cheesy to create some false allure of being able to "win" something exclusive... that you're paying for.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Mon, 24 June 2019, 14:40:00
Been several months since I used my 55 gram Realforce TKL so I dug it out of the closet & hooked it up. Just for fun I folded the legs down to tilt the board... and I love it!!!

I used to hate using the flip out feet on keyboards, but something happened a few months ago, and now I have to flip the feet down on every keyboard, or else it feels weird to me.

Exactly!

Idiots who flip out the feet, for each time they do it i hope they spend a minute in purgatory.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 24 June 2019, 20:58:00
From the "why extra PCBs" thread, I had no idea that the term hotswap was now applied to keyboards. Suitable subject material for an "unpopular keyboard opinions" post:

The term "hotswap" applied to binary contact switches is a ridiculous affectation. There are no specific circuit design issues to address, no component grounding concerns. It's just a PCB that can take drop in switches rather than require soldering.

Or is there more to it, electrically, than this?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: invariance on Tue, 25 June 2019, 07:52:24
From the "why extra PCBs" thread, I had no idea that the term hotswap was now applied to keyboards. Suitable subject material for an "unpopular keyboard opinions" post:

The term "hotswap" applied to binary contact switches is a ridiculous affectation. There are no specific circuit design issues to address, no component grounding concerns. It's just a PCB that can take drop in switches rather than require soldering.

Or is there more to it, electrically, than this?
Not at all.  The circuitry doesn’t care if an already open switch is removed from the circuit whilst it is still powered on.
Usual marketing wankery to loosely apply a word to keep it short and catchy instead of something more accurate.  Unfortunately accurate doesn’t sell.  “Press fit printed circuit board sockets” doesn’t have that ring to it.
How about something even the lay person could understand: Switches Held In Tight keyboard.  Should be on a winner with that one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TuCZnak on Tue, 25 June 2019, 09:52:06
From the "why extra PCBs" thread, I had no idea that the term hotswap was now applied to keyboards. Suitable subject material for an "unpopular keyboard opinions" post:

The term "hotswap" applied to binary contact switches is a ridiculous affectation. There are no specific circuit design issues to address, no component grounding concerns. It's just a PCB that can take drop in switches rather than require soldering.

Or is there more to it, electrically, than this?

So if it's simple and doesn't require complicated engineering solutions, it should be named differently? From the definition of what hotswapping is:
Quote
Hot swapping is replacing or adding components without stopping or shutting down the system.
Socketed switches fit into this definition and are therefore properly called hotswappable. Or would you like to propose another, more fitting name?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 26 June 2019, 04:33:14
Socketed switches fit into this definition and are therefore properly called hotswappable. Or would you like to propose another, more fitting name?

In that case, my fridge has hot swappable beers in it.

In a slightly more serious vein, the definition of "Hot swapping is replacing or adding components without stopping or shutting down the system" is overly simplistic. The heavy implication through decades of system architecture is that there are a load of design issues that need to be sorted out for this definition to be met. In my own field (IT, I don't know anything about serious heavy machinery) these are electrical, protocol and even to some extent mechanical.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 26 June 2019, 09:21:53
Socketed switches fit into this definition and are therefore properly called hotswappable. Or would you like to propose another, more fitting name?

In that case, my fridge has hot swappable beers in it.

In a slightly more serious vein, the definition of "Hot swapping is replacing or adding components without stopping or shutting down the system" is overly simplistic. The heavy implication through decades of system architecture is that there are a load of design issues that need to be sorted out for this definition to be met. In my own field (IT, I don't know anything about serious heavy machinery) these are electrical, protocol and even to some extent mechanical.

I think you just explained why calling them hotswap switches actually makes sense.  You can swap switches without the mechanical interruption of needing to unplug the keyboard, take it apart, desolder the old switches, and solder in new switches. 

Alternatively (if that justification doesn't satisfy you :P ), this is a simple case of the evolution of language.  The technically correct way to describe the switches may be different, but it's lengthy and overly complicated.  So a similar word was co-opted, as to the general population it is very clear what the intended use of said word is in this case. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 26 June 2019, 10:30:30
kirk did nothing wrong
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: apastuszak on Wed, 26 June 2019, 11:16:09
Model M's sound bad

Adding one more: Model Ms and similarly big vintage keyboards are just too big.

I used to think that.  Then I got a Model M and dropped it on my desk.  Didn't find the extra space to be an issue.

The buckling spring is a better typing experienice than any Cherry MX switch I have evere tried.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 26 June 2019, 21:43:59
What the hell is with everyone and their grandmother who designs a case putting a big brass plate on the bottom of it? It's the dumbest **** ever, barely adds weight, just adds expense, no one is going to ****ing see it, and people act like it's a needed feature. Giant brass plates on the bottom of your board are ****ing stupid and nearly pointless. Stupid dumb stupid trend. Just make the case heavier, idiot. Or put the weighted bit as an inline around the side so you can actually see it, dummy. Oh, does that tiny bit of extra work require too much design effort and you are happy being like every other nonsense designer out there? No other ideas other than an overpriced hunk of metal facing the desk? Ok.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ysys on Fri, 28 June 2019, 03:36:58
1. I don't like when one of the alpha keys is larger than others (\)
2. I don't like quiet keyboards
3. I prefer spending on a nice PCB rather than on a nice keycap set
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Legonut on Sat, 13 July 2019, 01:20:51
There are way too many TKL/65%/60% boards on the market that are $500+, when that kind of money should be spent on real ergonomics.
Also, not enough split spacebars and switch top opening plate support.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 13 July 2019, 03:00:21
What the hell is with everyone and their grandmother who designs a case putting a big brass plate on the bottom of it? It's the dumbest **** ever, barely adds weight, just adds expense, no one is going to ****ing see it, and people act like it's a needed feature.
I would not agree that it "barely adds weight". A 60% in a case with thin bezels and brass weight could be as heavy or heavier than a TKL in solid aluminium with thick bezels.
Not that I would get one of these myself... I have only lifted some up at keyboard parties and compared.
I think a lot of the same effect could be achieved by making the switch-mounting plate of brass (and a brass plate has nice sound properties (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMDpOSPWIpM)).

But I suppose the brass weight could act as an anti-theft device: if you are not into custom keyboards you would never have guessed that a keyboard could weigh that much and you'd just think it was glued to the desk.   :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevadu on Sat, 13 July 2019, 04:43:34
Stock Halo Trues are way better than all these weird frankenswitches people are making out of Halo stems.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EMC Labs on Sat, 13 July 2019, 05:04:38
Stock Halo Trues are way better than all these weird frankenswitches people are making out of Halo stems.

Couldn't agree more. Although, I do disagree with your statement.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fanpeople on Sat, 13 July 2019, 05:13:43
Model M's sound bad

Adding one more: Model Ms and similarly big vintage keyboards are just too big.


MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS

PLS DELETE DIS OPINIONS.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EMC Labs on Sat, 13 July 2019, 08:38:31
There are way too many TKL/65%/60% boards on the market that are $500+, when that kind of money should be spent on real ergonomics.
Also, not enough split spacebars and switch top opening plate support.

That's all you. Prefer TKL/65%/60% and avoid ergo boards and split spacebars, lol.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 13 July 2019, 08:58:15
Model M's sound bad

Adding one more: Model Ms and similarly big vintage keyboards are just too big.


MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS

PLS DELETE DIS OPINIONS.

Sheaves sword
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doluded on Sat, 13 July 2019, 09:50:49
Stock Halo Trues are way better than all these weird frankenswitches people are making out of Halo stems.

Couldn't agree more. Although, I do disagree with your statement.
Wait. So do you agree? Or do you disagree?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Signature on Sat, 13 July 2019, 09:51:53
Stock Halo Trues are way better than all these weird frankenswitches people are making out of Halo stems.

Couldn't agree more. Although, I do disagree with your statement.
Wait. So do you agree? Or do you disagree?
Agree to disagree or disagree to agree?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tobiasvl on Mon, 15 July 2019, 15:56:49
1. I don't like when one of the alpha keys is larger than others (\)

Agreed. That's why ISO and HHKB are better than regular ANSI, although every ANSI user with self respect should use split backspace anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 20 July 2019, 15:36:10
Focus layout is the best
Also, Caps Lock should be a layer key (even on fullsize boards) and capslock can be accessed on another layer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appaboy on Sat, 20 July 2019, 15:49:07
Focus layout is the best
Also, Caps Lock should be a layer key (even on fullsize boards) and capslock can be accessed on another layer.


To counter this opinion, my opinion is that bigassenter is one of the worst things about old boards, even when it has proper backspace it still puts the pipe key in a dumb location.

also yeah caps lock should not be on the home row imo
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Sun, 21 July 2019, 10:51:20
Caps Lock shouldn't even exist.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 21 July 2019, 11:45:11
Aw, then I wouldn't my handy navigation cluster layer switching key :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Sun, 21 July 2019, 11:48:18
I use Scroll Lock for that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 21 July 2019, 12:19:00
You have a dedicated scroll lock key?  Can't say I miss it, though sometimes I miss having F keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Sun, 21 July 2019, 12:22:02
Both my Model F and my Model M have one. I use it on neither. I don't even know what it is supposed to do.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 21 July 2019, 12:28:17
Basically it locks the scrolling output.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tentboy on Mon, 22 July 2019, 08:43:50
IJKL is the best function layer configuration for arrow keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 23 July 2019, 11:43:04
Both my Model F and my Model M have one. I use it on neither. I don't even know what it is supposed to do.

The most useful use I've seen for it is: in Excel, it locks the arrow keys to scroll rather than moving the cursor to the adjacent cell. 

Is that particularly useful in the age of mice?  Almost certainly not.  But it at least does something! 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gampela on Wed, 24 July 2019, 02:35:36
The Capslock icon of arrow pointing down looks incredibly stupid next to the shift key and ruins the whole aesthetic. Not that capslock has any place in the top layout anyways.

One of the most easily accessible mod keys dedicated to a function most people have zero use. What a damn waste. And it's not just useless, it actively hampers your typing flow when you accidentally happen to press it. Win key has nothing on this guy. Cultured people swap it with control or function key, anything really.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ergonaut on Wed, 24 July 2019, 07:33:49
People who obsess about keycaps and switches while they're still typing on a row-staggered QWERTY board need to get their priorities straight.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: GLaDOS on Sat, 27 July 2019, 11:26:03
The Capslock icon of arrow pointing down looks incredibly stupid next to the shift key and ruins the whole aesthetic. Not that capslock has any place in the top layout anyways.

One of the most easily accessible mod keys dedicated to a function most people have zero use. What a damn waste. And it's not just useless, it actively hampers your typing flow when you accidentally happen to press it. Win key has nothing on this guy. Cultured people swap it with control or function key, anything really.

I know people (older especially) who will use Caps Lock every time they want to type a capital letter - CL on, letter, CL off. It makes me want to gauge my eyes out when I see it.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TuCZnak on Sat, 27 July 2019, 13:23:00
Right top blocker is ugly and doesn't need to be on literally every second new keyboard introduced this year.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tobiasvl on Sat, 27 July 2019, 13:38:42
People who obsess about keycaps and switches while they're still typing on a row-staggered QWERTY board need to get their priorities straight.
Ouch...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Doluded on Sat, 27 July 2019, 14:15:36
People who obsess about keycaps and switches while they're still typing on a row-staggered QWERTY board need to get their priorities straight.
Most ergo looks disgusting so no thanks
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 28 July 2019, 20:17:40
Right top blocker is ugly and doesn't need to be on literally every second new keyboard introduced this year.

What is a top blocker? Haven't come across this term before.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 28 July 2019, 20:53:12
Right top blocker is ugly and doesn't need to be on literally every second new keyboard introduced this year.

What is a top blocker? Haven't come across this term before.

checkout the OP of this thread https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93134.0 it shows an example of a top right blocker
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appaboy on Sun, 28 July 2019, 20:54:35
Not sure if I've already posted this or not but stock topre feels better than lubed topre
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appaboy on Sun, 28 July 2019, 20:57:58
People who obsess about keycaps and switches while they're still typing on a row-staggered QWERTY board need to get their priorities straight.

People who use Ortho are awfully vocal about it , and there isn't really actually well made Ortho boards like there are for staggered. Qwerty isn't the best but it's so standardized that I use it anyways because whenever I use something new or something public I have to adjust between Dvorak and qwerty and that's just a hassle I don't wanna deal with
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SixtyLife on Sun, 28 July 2019, 21:11:11
can't stand 65% layout
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vegs on Mon, 29 July 2019, 01:44:16
Right top blocker is ugly and doesn't need to be on literally every second new keyboard introduced this year.
For me this is necessary to make 65% usable.
Having a key to the right of backspace throws me way off.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Mon, 29 July 2019, 02:22:14
Right top blocker is ugly and doesn't need to be on literally every second new keyboard introduced this year.
For me this is necessary to make 65% usable.
Having a key to the right of backspace throws me way off.
 
 
Obvious solution is just remap backslash.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tobiasvl on Mon, 29 July 2019, 03:01:25
Assuming ANSI, split backslash is the correct solution.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vegs on Mon, 29 July 2019, 07:51:33
Assuming ANSI, split backslash is the correct solution.
ISO :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 29 July 2019, 15:41:37
Right top blocker is ugly and doesn't need to be on literally every second new keyboard introduced this year.

What is a top blocker? Haven't come across this term before.

checkout the OP of this thread https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93134.0 it shows an example of a top right blocker

Huh.  I don't love it, but I see the appeal.  And vegs' comment makes total sense.  Still seems just slightly off though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 30 July 2019, 01:49:40
checkout the OP of this thread https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93134.0 it shows an example of a top right blocker

Maybe I'm being dense, but the 'blocker' is having a bit of plastic filled in at the top right of the keyboard, instead of a key?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 30 July 2019, 03:48:38
checkout the OP of this thread https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93134.0 it shows an example of a top right blocker

Maybe I'm being dense, but the 'blocker' is having a bit of plastic filled in at the top right of the keyboard, instead of a key?
Yup

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: audiosl4ve on Tue, 30 July 2019, 04:00:28
The Capslock icon of arrow pointing down looks incredibly stupid next to the shift key and ruins the whole aesthetic. Not that capslock has any place in the top layout anyways.

One of the most easily accessible mod keys dedicated to a function most people have zero use. What a damn waste. And it's not just useless, it actively hampers your typing flow when you accidentally happen to press it. Win key has nothing on this guy. Cultured people swap it with control or function key, anything really.

I know people (older especially) who will use Caps Lock every time they want to type a capital letter - CL on, letter, CL off. It makes me want to gauge my eyes out when I see it.

i know way to many people who do this... It just hurts  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AJM on Tue, 30 July 2019, 05:22:31
I fully agree ! .... yet, Sean Wrona - one of the fastest typists - uses caps lock in that way.  :eek:
So .... if it's stupid, but it works, it's not stupid .... I guess.  :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tobiasvl on Tue, 30 July 2019, 06:53:59
Would probably be even quicker to use Caps Lock as a one-shot Shift key then, so you don't have to turn it off again!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Wed, 31 July 2019, 17:39:35
I fully agree ! .... yet, Sean Wrona - one of the fastest typists - uses caps lock in that way.  :eek:
So .... if it's stupid, but it works, it's not stupid .... I guess.  :confused:
 
 
It's a little easier on the hands if you're used to it especially on QWERTY, so you don't have to strain your hand by reaching as far. I asked him about using StickyKeys as a faster alternative (tap for Shift to apply to the next letter) and he said it was a good idea and that he might've used it if he continued to type significantly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venaros on Fri, 02 August 2019, 21:00:17
I hate the sound of NK Creams. So damn hollow.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appaboy on Fri, 09 August 2019, 06:03:53
The "classic" way of doing the legacy key legends (prtscr scroll lock and pause with all the front legends) looks a million times better than the new modern approach of single line legends on those keys . This is about as nitpicky as I get , as I sold my gmk 9009 after being annoyed by it for a while. I understand the thought behind it but in practice I'd rather have the classic style.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wholypantalones on Fri, 09 August 2019, 07:03:20
I don't know how unpopular this really is, but I'm not a fan of just icon mods on keysets anymore. Especially "realigned" icons and the down arrow for caps lock. *shudder*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 09 August 2019, 09:54:48
I don't know how unpopular this really is, but I'm not a fan of just icon mods on keysets anymore. Especially "realigned" icons and the down arrow for caps lock. *shudder*

Blank is the way to go, don't let icons and letters tell you what to do. They're like handcuffs.

Qwerty would've been long replaced by more efficient arrangements had we not had the letters printed on every board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: EMC Labs on Sat, 10 August 2019, 02:38:19
I don't know how unpopular this really is, but I'm not a fan of just icon mods on keysets anymore. Especially "realigned" icons and the down arrow for caps lock. *shudder*

Blank is the way to go, don't let icons and letters tell you what to do. They're like handcuffs.

Qwerty would've been long replaced by more efficient arrangements had we not had the letters printed on every board.


Well then.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SixtyLife on Sat, 10 August 2019, 14:58:23
I don't know how unpopular this really is, but I'm not a fan of just icon mods on keysets anymore. Especially "realigned" icons and the down arrow for caps lock. *shudder*

Blank is the way to go, don't let icons and letters tell you what to do. They're like handcuffs.

Qwerty would've been long replaced by more efficient arrangements had we not had the letters printed on every board.

you're delusional if you think the general public would have accepted blank keyboards with their computers. even now after decades of qwerty standard the majority of people need letters on their keycaps to type.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 10 August 2019, 15:42:54

you're delusional if you think the general public would have accepted blank keyboards with their computers. even now after decades of qwerty standard the majority of people need letters on their keycaps to type.

That's the failure of public education.  Providing label handcuffs to the pleb masses,  The goal has always been to keep their minds empty while extracting their raw physical labor.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevadu on Sun, 11 August 2019, 19:18:11
Familiarity with the layout is even more important when the keycaps are blank though, not less.  Making keycaps blank does nothing to help people touch type DVORAK or whatever...

Besides which keycaps just look better with legends (totally objective statement).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 11 August 2019, 22:37:38
Familiarity with the layout is even more important when the keycaps are blank though, not less.  Making keycaps blank does nothing to help people touch type DVORAK or whatever...

Besides which keycaps just look better with legends (totally objective statement).

Don't think they look better or worse. They certainly look more familiar with legends, but hitler looks familiar, still a bad dude.

Dvorak isn't a very good layout. Many premises of its construction is wrong.  for example, the fingers do not naturally rest on the home row asdfjkl;,  it rests on awefjio;.

My point about label vs blank is merely that the label cuffs the majority of all people to learn a bad system, and its ubiquity is a primary blockade to innovation.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 11 August 2019, 23:14:50
Kinesis Advantage keyboards house much sex appeal.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RominRonin on Sun, 11 August 2019, 23:18:42
1. Model M/Fs sound horrible
I dislike the buckling sound.

2. Most switches are too heavy
Love my 30g Topre. Anything heavier requires too much effort to press imo

3. Japanese keyboards shouldn't have kana legends
No secret only 5-10% of Japanese use kana input method anyways.

4. SA (or any other spherical high profile keycaps) are not for 'real' typing
They are nice to lay your fingers down though. Just not optimal for moving between rows.

5. Custom built cases.
Don't like metal cases; they feel too cold to touch due too great thermal conductivity.
Polystyrene case might be a better idea I guess:P. Warm, light, quiet and inexpensive.
I agree with all except 1 and 3 - I haven't used model m/f boards long enough to comment and Ive never used a Japanese board.



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TuCZnak on Tue, 13 August 2019, 13:42:53
Familiarity with the layout is even more important when the keycaps are blank though, not less.  Making keycaps blank does nothing to help people touch type DVORAK or whatever...

Besides which keycaps just look better with legends (totally objective statement).

Don't think they look better or worse. They certainly look more familiar with legends, but hitler looks familiar, still a bad dude.

Dvorak isn't a very good layout. Many premises of its construction is wrong.  for example, the fingers do not naturally rest on the home row asdfjkl;,  it rests on awefjio;.

My point about label vs blank is merely that the label cuffs the majority of all people to learn a bad system, and its ubiquity is a primary blockade to innovation.


Godwin's law is still in effect. You've now lost the argument, congratulations.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appaboy on Sat, 17 August 2019, 06:59:19
Aeks are horrible keyboards with good switches

Gmk q:01 is one of the best looking sets
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Sat, 17 August 2019, 08:07:09
The bandaid mod does nothing for feel or functionality & just adds a bunch of board chow magnets under your stabilizers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: The_Boom_Boy on Sat, 17 August 2019, 09:19:56
Icon mods are ugly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: audiosl4ve on Sun, 18 August 2019, 02:39:20
The bandaid mod does nothing for feel or functionality & just adds a bunch of board chow magnets under your stabilizers.

and sound wise it's worse
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 18 August 2019, 03:15:50
keebs are for dweebs

saying keebs is also for dweebs but this is a popular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 18 August 2019, 04:01:06
The bandaid mod does nothing for feel or functionality & just adds a bunch of board chow magnets under your stabilizers.

and sound wise it's worse

Agreed!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BitterMango on Wed, 21 August 2019, 14:48:08
While I had an IBM Model M as a kid, and used it extensively, I do not miss it. The keyboard was unbreakable and built to standards we can only dream of today (that part I miss), but the actual tactile experience of the buckling springs is somewhat overrated in my opinion. I recall mine requiring pretty heavy presses and I, from today's perspective, don't appreciate the actual sensation of feeling the spring collapse under my fingertips. It was somewhat too sharp to be pleasant.

Great keyboard, just not the pinnacle of typing experience it's sometimes presented as.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Wed, 21 August 2019, 17:40:21
I fully agree. And honestly, despite enjoying the feeling of beam springs myself, I couldn't ever see myself wanting to type on them for more than a few minutes at a time. 
Regarding build quality, though, Model M's can be a bit overhyped.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BitterMango on Thu, 22 August 2019, 01:21:19
I understand it from the perspective of a time in which people were moving from typewriters to a new input device. Progress is iterative and the Model M is quite clearly that. Nowadays we have more comfortable typing experinces. I just wish we had the old case sturdiness as well, outside of custom builds.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Thu, 22 August 2019, 01:51:10
I find it strange that people ask for Model M build quality when far superior (in build quality and sturdiness) boards exist in the form of almost any metal-encased mechanical keyboard today. Being heavy does not a quality keyboard make.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Polymer on Thu, 22 August 2019, 01:58:32
While I had an IBM Model M as a kid, and used it extensively, I do not miss it. The keyboard was unbreakable and built to standards we can only dream of today (that part I miss), but the actual tactile experience of the buckling springs is somewhat overrated in my opinion. I recall mine requiring pretty heavy presses and I, from today's perspective, don't appreciate the actual sensation of feeling the spring collapse under my fingertips. It was somewhat too sharp to be pleasant.

Great keyboard, just not the pinnacle of typing experience it's sometimes presented as.

Agreed....M/F both get a lot of love...but when I was a kid I thought they felt cheap...and today I still think that's the case...

To be fair, they've stood the test of time...but they're so clunky feeling and sounding....they feel like something is wrong and if you actually look at the mechanism and how it works, it definitely doesn't look like something you'd intentionally design that way now...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Thu, 22 August 2019, 05:34:26
I don't think the F feels cheap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fanpeople on Thu, 22 August 2019, 05:51:33
I don't think the F feels cheap.

Yeah but you also like rusty spoons so....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Thu, 22 August 2019, 05:52:11
I see. Then I must leave.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fanpeople on Thu, 22 August 2019, 05:58:54
I see. Then I must leave.

EH! Hubert Cumberdale you taste like soot and poo!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BitterMango on Thu, 22 August 2019, 12:28:32
I find it strange that people ask for Model M build quality when far superior (in build quality and sturdiness) boards exist in the form of almost any metal-encased mechanical keyboard today. Being heavy does not a quality keyboard make.

It surely doesn't, but most modern plastic cases feel really flimsy, especially with a floating cap design. It screams cost saving (to me). That's the mass market keyboard, not a metal encased one. Those are, for the most part a premium.

Of course the heaviness and thickness of the plastic case have very little practical function - even my Ajazz AK33 doesn't slide around and the case is not likely to break during its lifetime. So it's just about the subjective feeling of quality associated with solidity and weight, i.e. heavy = substantial.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 22 August 2019, 12:43:53
I find it strange that people ask for Model M build quality when far superior (in build quality and sturdiness) boards exist in the form of almost any metal-encased mechanical keyboard today. Being heavy does not a quality keyboard make.

It surely doesn't, but most modern plastic cases feel really flimsy, especially with a floating cap design. It screams cost saving (to me). That's the mass market keyboard, not a metal encased one. Those are, for the most part a premium.

Of course the heaviness and thickness of the plastic case have very little practical function - even my Ajazz AK33 doesn't slide around and the case is not likely to break during its lifetime. So it's just about the subjective feeling of quality associated with solidity and weight, i.e. heavy = substantial.
It's true that industrialization drives some things, like kb, into unacceptable borders for some. But it is also true that kb aficionados pay insane prices for over-engineered cases and kb construction. I like this forum's drive for creativity and innovation in kb concepts, but I really hate the trend towards hundred of dollars designs that add nothing to the functionality.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BitterMango on Thu, 22 August 2019, 13:25:09
I can't imagine what substantial addition can be made to the keyboard, as tech teams around the world have been trying for decades to innovate with the design, from touchscreens to ergonomic oddities and none of the proposed solutions were either marketable or a really good substitute.

The only innovation of any practical use I appreciated were extra USB ports on keyboards, media keys and FN layers in general, and wireless options. Smaller keyboards as well, for the extra mouse space. This is all ubiquitous by now, and some of it isn't even particularly 'modern'.

I'm aware of optical switches, and efforts to make hall-effect mass market but I'm somewhat lukewarm on these developments as even if key switches are made to last much longer, the likelihood is that there will be an another point of failure on the keyboard long before the switches wear out.

Maybe that's a failure of my imagination, but perhaps customization centered around aesthetics and perceived build quality is as far as it goes for the most part?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Thu, 22 August 2019, 13:37:38
I find it strange that people ask for Model M build quality when far superior (in build quality and sturdiness) boards exist in the form of almost any metal-encased mechanical keyboard today. Being heavy does not a quality keyboard make.

It surely doesn't, but most modern plastic cases feel really flimsy, especially with a floating cap design. It screams cost saving (to me). That's the mass market keyboard, not a metal encased one. Those are, for the most part a premium.

Of course the heaviness and thickness of the plastic case have very little practical function - even my Ajazz AK33 doesn't slide around and the case is not likely to break during its lifetime. So it's just about the subjective feeling of quality associated with solidity and weight, i.e. heavy = substantial.
It's true that industrialization drives some things, like kb, into unacceptable borders for some. But it is also true that kb aficionados pay insane prices for over-engineered cases and kb construction. I like this forum's drive for creativity and innovation in kb concepts, but I really hate the trend towards hundred of dollars designs that add nothing to the functionality.

I agree on principle, yet what else is there to change? Bona fide changes in technology are incredibly few and far between in terms of case design. In the past decade I can think of RGB diffusers and hotswap as being maybe the only functional differences. Outside of that, the only way to differentiate keyboards is in aesthetics; tilt, color, material, and design can be modified ad nauseam to create new marketable products. Without these ever more extravagant mods, first from Korean customs, gold springs, stickers, and the like into full metal cases and brass weights, then the older generation likely wouldn’t buy new keyboards and the hobby could very well die out. 
 
I myself had achieved what I thought was endgame for years, til new stuff came out that made me reevaluate. During the entire interim, I completely disconnected from the keyboard communities as it had lost relevance.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: JohnMD1022 on Wed, 28 August 2019, 14:46:21
I couldn't stand the Topre. I gave it away after a few hours use.

I like Razers, but reliability is a problem. The RGB quit working on my favorite one. I had it fixed on light blue, and it was nice on nights when I was having trouble sleeping. This one doubles up on a random basis. Their software UI needs work. It is unreadable if you are older. There is no way to increase the type size, either.

I have used Model Ms for about as long as they've been made. 30+ years. I have a 1986 and a 1987. I have two Spacesaver TKL models and they are very nice except that they are a bit large. That said, I have 11 full size Model Ms plus the two Spacesavers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venaros on Wed, 28 August 2019, 15:31:04
I like Razers, but reliability is a problem. The RGB quit working on my favorite one. I had it fixed on light blue, and it was nice on nights when I was having trouble sleeping. This one doubles up on a random basis. Their software UI needs work. It is unreadable if you are older. There is no way to increase the type size, either.

Why do you like Razer if they have so many problems, and pretty much all of their features can be found on other boards?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 28 August 2019, 17:16:38
maybe they mean the switches?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 1391401 on Mon, 02 September 2019, 00:03:05
gmk jamon is uggo af
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: audiosl4ve on Mon, 02 September 2019, 02:24:31
gmk jamon is uggo af

Amen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TuCZnak on Mon, 02 September 2019, 03:27:59
gmk jamon is uggo af

Thia thread is for unpopular opinions... lol
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Mon, 02 September 2019, 03:48:40
Here's one: having a hiragana layout keyset while then having a non-JIS layout keyboard is one of the most wannabe things in this hobby. If you actually type in Japanese, use a damn Japanese keyboard, if not, don't try to slap that stuff on your keycaps and pretend you know the language. Kind of similar to Hangul sets, but at least Hangul is used with ANSI.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: audiosl4ve on Mon, 02 September 2019, 03:54:50
but but it looks so damm nice  :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: subcat on Mon, 02 September 2019, 04:05:07
no one's pretending they know the language, hiragana often fits a thematic/aesthetic purpose, e.g. it makes sense on a topre keyboard because they are made by a japanese company in japan

gatekeeping keycap sublegend choices is ridiculous, let people use what they want
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Mon, 02 September 2019, 04:08:32
Look who didn't read the title  :rolleyes: 

but but it looks so damm nice  :confused:
Ikr..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: subcat on Mon, 02 September 2019, 04:12:45
Look who didn't read the title  :rolleyes: 

but but it looks so damm nice  :confused:
Ikr..

i don't see 'no discussion allowed' anywhere in the title  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Mon, 02 September 2019, 08:30:51
Here's one: having a hiragana layout keyset while then having a non-JIS layout keyboard is one of the most wannabe things in this hobby. If you actually type in Japanese, use a damn Japanese keyboard, if not, don't try to slap that stuff on your keycaps and pretend you know the language. Kind of similar to Hangul sets, but at least Hangul is used with ANSI.

I don't speak any language other than english...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 02 September 2019, 11:27:13
Here's one: having a hiragana layout keyset while then having a non-JIS layout keyboard is one of the most wannabe things in this hobby. If you actually type in Japanese, use a damn Japanese keyboard, if not, don't try to slap that stuff on your keycaps and pretend you know the language. Kind of similar to Hangul sets, but at least Hangul is used with ANSI.

I don't speak any language other than english...
Don't confuse aesthetics with utility. The first commands more demand than the second in keyboard-land.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevadu on Mon, 02 September 2019, 11:36:28
no one's pretending they know the language, hiragana often fits a thematic/aesthetic purpose, e.g. it makes sense on a topre keyboard because they are made by a japanese company in japan

gatekeeping keycap sublegend choices is ridiculous, let people use what they want

おい、何言っているな?俺は日本語をしているよ。

That said for actual Japanese input I use romanji with an IME anyway...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 02 September 2019, 13:17:41
Here's one: having a hiragana layout keyset while then having a non-JIS layout keyboard is one of the most wannabe things in this hobby. If you actually type in Japanese, use a damn Japanese keyboard, if not, don't try to slap that stuff on your keycaps and pretend you know the language. Kind of similar to Hangul sets, but at least Hangul is used with ANSI.

I was actually pushing for GMK Laser to support JIS layouts if they were going full Hiragana. Alas, most people just enjoy the look and feel. In any case, the cyberpunk aesthetic is heavily influenced by Japanese culture, so I think the design decision for that set made sense.

As for what other have said -- yeah the majority of us don't speak Japanese or even Russian for that matter. Aesthetics are king in this hobby. :Shrug:  I get where you're coming from, though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 02 September 2019, 15:35:51
proper jis legends cost money

working on it
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fer.real on Mon, 02 September 2019, 15:59:18
proper jis legends cost money

working on it

I would like to see a PCB that supports JIS layout as well.  Not because I speak Japanese, just becuase I like the bottom row.

I like blue, too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 03 September 2019, 12:08:01
I personally feel like Razer Greens are a great switch. They are very clicky, which is just what i need. They are a great alternative to MX Blues.

Please don't hate on me 😕
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tobiasvl on Tue, 03 September 2019, 16:41:09
Well, maybe that's true, but I don't like MX Blue either. Is that an unpopular opinion? Barely tactile AND barely clicky, not a good combo
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 03 September 2019, 17:03:43
I personally feel like Razer Greens are a great switch. They are very clicky, which is just what i need. They are a great alternative to MX Blues.

Please don't hate on me 😕


No hate from me at all man, if it floats your boat sail it! Although i do have to ask why Razer Greens when all the awesome Kaihl BOX click bar switches are available?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 03 September 2019, 17:07:33
proper jis legends cost money

working on it

PCBs that support JIS & JIS compatibility in high quality keycap sets would be awesome to see! The JIS bottom row always intrigued me since it so ergonomic & I have thought on more than a few occasions what I could use the extra keys for. Sure I could always do a split spacebar build for a similar amount of keys on the bottom row, but JIS just looks so much more elegant than split spacebar to me. Glad to hear you're cooking something up!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Devil on Tue, 03 September 2019, 21:37:43

All I can think of right now. Don't hate me. Although this is gonna get some salty responses I bet.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Devil on Tue, 03 September 2019, 21:39:53
I personally feel like Razer Greens are a great switch. They are very clicky, which is just what i need. They are a great alternative to MX Blues.

Please don't hate on me 😕


Why would you want to use Razer switches when MX and other clicky switches exist that are superior? Razer is the definition of gamer marketing. Cheap components and quality at premium prices.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Tue, 03 September 2019, 23:16:26
  • HHKB Layout doesn't make any sense. Why do you want to remove the Control key?
 
 
The other stuff about Alice/split keys is just plain ignorance, they're more ergonomic and everyone (who uses a computer regularly) should strive to use something like that. TGR Alice layout is extremely simple as well. 
Besides that though, it's not about removing the Ctrl key, it's more about removing Caps Lock. That key is essentially useless and in a very handy position to use, which is why almost everyone maps LCtrl to that key (there's a DIP switch on the bottom of HHKB's for this purpose, and you can QMK flash customs). 
Also the volume knob wastes a lot of bezel space while making the keyboard bulkier.[/list]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 04 September 2019, 00:07:21
Topres are overpriced.

Price is set by whatever the market will bear, and the market will most certainly bear Topre.

65% Layout is the best layout for those who don't program.

And what layout is..?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 04 September 2019, 01:35:05
Topres are overpriced.

Price is set by whatever the market will bear, and the market will most certainly bear Topre.

65% Layout is the best layout for those who don't program.

And what layout is..?

More than 68 keys for those programming EPROM chips?  555 timers?  What the heck are they programming that needs a keyboard larger than a 65% is what I'd want to know.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: guptaji on Wed, 04 September 2019, 01:44:46
I personally feel like Razer Greens are a great switch. They are very clicky, which is just what i need. They are a great alternative to MX Blues.

Please don't hate on me 😕

My experience was the exact opposite. I prefer the MX to the Razor switches. I guess it simply boils down to preferences
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tobiasvl on Wed, 04 September 2019, 04:39:31
All I can think of right now. Don't hate me. Although this is gonna get some salty responses I bet.

No hate, but I don't understand all of those.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nappis on Wed, 04 September 2019, 06:23:19
  • HHKB Layout doesn't make any sense. Why do you want to remove the Control key?
As someone said earlier HHKB has one control key on the left. On mac control key does not get much use. But if you're Windows/Linux/VIM/Emacs user or programmer I don't see why you would ever want to get rid off second control key.

Don't you guys touch type and use mods on both sides keyboard?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: porschepotty on Wed, 04 September 2019, 08:57:06
Hey guys kinda new here but have an opinion which I think is unpopular. I think that 96-key layouts are highly underrated, and am surprised that 60% or even TKLs are considered 'popular' options. I think a 96-key layout is a far better compromise than TKL if space is a concern, as you retain access to nav buttons, a numpad plus an enter key close to the mouse thumb (won't apply to left handed users though).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Wed, 04 September 2019, 14:49:40
Don't you guys touch type and use mods on both sides keyboard?
   
 
Two separate questions you're asking, not one. I'm sure the large majority of people here touch type, but I've never really found much use out of my RCtrl (even though I usually type on a TKL rather than HHKB-layout), as I have to shift my hand a fair bit to get to it, compared to my left pinky naturally resting on LCtrl (on Caps). Thankfully my two main keyboards are Topre (hardware/software switch) and QMK-capable (flashing) so I never need to worry about using LCtrl in its supremely uncomfortable normal location.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: t0rk on Wed, 04 September 2019, 15:20:21
Hey guys kinda new here but have an opinion which I think is unpopular. I think that 96-key layouts are highly underrated, and am surprised that 60% or even TKLs are considered 'popular' options. I think a 96-key layout is a far better compromise than TKL if space is a concern, as you retain access to nav buttons, a numpad plus an enter key close to the mouse thumb (won't apply to left handed users though).

Not unpopular I don't think. I prefer the 1800 layout too, and I think people who prefer 60% or TKL are mostly in it for the aesthetics. 65% and 1800 are far more functional that 60% or TKL respectively.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 04 September 2019, 15:30:46
65% Layout is the best layout for those who don't program.

And what layout is..?

More than 68 keys for those programming EPROM chips?  555 timers?  What the heck are they programming that needs a keyboard larger than a 65% is what I'd want to know.

Right? IMO a more experienced dev needs _less_ keys. Use C-a and C-e for home and end. Use hjkl or jkl; for arrows. Page up and down are easily layered with Super or Fn so you don't even have to lift your fingers off the home row.

I guess FNs for macros?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Wed, 04 September 2019, 20:01:39
The whole point of a TKL is that it cuts down the width greatly, letting you out your hands closer together (much better ergonomically) while having all other functionality with no layout differences (so no need to change or relearn). If you need to use a numpad and can’t be bothered to get a separate one, then 1800 is better than full-size and a great option, but claiming people prefer TKL/60% purely out of aesthetics isnt completely right either.
Also: travel. Man I love my TKL but shoving that thing into a backpack or luggage is a lot more space wasted than a 60%, especially on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 04 September 2019, 21:19:42
65% Layout is the best layout for those who don't program.

And what layout is..?

More than 68 keys for those programming EPROM chips?  555 timers?  What the heck are they programming that needs a keyboard larger than a 65% is what I'd want to know.

Right? IMO a more experienced dev needs _less_ keys. Use C-a and C-e for home and end. Use hjkl or jkl; for arrows. Page up and down are easily layered with Super or Fn so you don't even have to lift your fingers off the home row.

I guess FNs for macros?

I'm no dev, but I use Vim exclusively for some reason.  Also using jkl; for arrows $(homing_bar), and ui nm for other navi keys.  Though F row and numpad were very helpful for 3D modeling.

Or maybe some kind of VS Code hotkey voodoo?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appaboy on Thu, 05 September 2019, 08:27:57
Many sets look better without their accent keys , and often I feel like the accents don’t fit the kit very well. 9009 does accent keys well

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 05 September 2019, 08:47:44
Many sets look better without their accent keys , and often I feel like the accents don’t fit the kit very well. 9009 does accent keys well
Colors and their combinations look better as we become familiar with them. The classic combinations are just too common that most of us are accustomed to them, therefore they look better to us. 9009 is a great example.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MMKB on Fri, 06 September 2019, 07:22:20
Please no Brass weight

I understand that brass weight have several benefits but…


None of the holy grail vintage keyboards have brass weight yet they could still feel wonderful.

Not against the brass plate. They sound deeper, serve the purpose of a plate, and are good looking accent too.

On the other hand, this thread is gold and it feels good to let it out  ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 06 September 2019, 07:30:11

Heavier: this confused me the most. How is heavier desirable?


Years ago, Ripster wrote a guide on how to smelt and cast lead in your backyard BBQ grill to make weights to fit inside the bottom case shell.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MMKB on Fri, 06 September 2019, 07:39:38

Heavier: this confused me the most. How is heavier desirable?


Years ago, Ripster wrote a guide on how to smelt and cast lead in your backyard BBQ grill to make weights to fit inside the bottom case shell.

Good god. Might become a popular interest check on GH
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 06 September 2019, 07:42:01
Please no Brass weight

I understand that brass weight have several benefits but…

  • Looks good: can’t argue with that but plenty of materials/finishes could look nice. Also uncoated brass will rust.
  • Anti-slippery: There are ways to prevent keyboards from slipping on the desk. Better rubber feet for example.
  • Sounds nicer: yes but there are plenty of ways to improve the typing sound. Dampening sheet or isolated mount for example. IMO (semi-) open back keyboard with no weight sounds even nicer.
  • Heavier: this confused me the most. How is heavier desirable? For me it’s a huge pain when I carry keyboards. I carry them a lot because I constantly modify and photograph them. The more brass weight I see on new products and the more appreciation people express, it all seems more of a fad to me. Unless heavy translated to premium?
  • Price: cost will increase due to different material and additional parts. We all pay the cost in the end.
None of the holy grail vintage keyboards have brass weight yet they could still feel wonderful.

Not against the brass plate. They sound deeper, serve the purpose of a plate, and are good looking accent too.

On the other hand, this thread is gold and it feels good to let it out  ;D
The use of machined metals for keeb's cases is due to the fact that any custom made board run is made in extremely low volumes that do not justify a plastic injection mold. But a machining case is not the more sounding manufacturing method for such component, only tolerable due to low demand. One of the best cases ever made  is the Poker II's die casting case that is made of aluminum. It is still over-engineered due to the metal, but a great if not the best keeb case. I have one and its feeling, rigidity and weight are in total balance with the function of an actual keeb case that is still discreet and not for show.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Fri, 06 September 2019, 10:59:46
Please no Brass weight

I understand that brass weight have several benefits but…

  • Looks good: can’t argue with that but plenty of materials/finishes could look nice. Also uncoated brass will rust.
  • Anti-slippery: There are ways to prevent keyboards from slipping on the desk. Better rubber feet for example.
  • Sounds nicer: yes but there are plenty of ways to improve the typing sound. Dampening sheet or isolated mount for example. IMO (semi-) open back keyboard with no weight sounds even nicer.
  • Heavier: this confused me the most. How is heavier desirable? For me it’s a huge pain when I carry keyboards. I carry them a lot because I constantly modify and photograph them. The more brass weight I see on new products and the more appreciation people express, it all seems more of a fad to me. Unless heavy translated to premium?
  • Price: cost will increase due to different material and additional parts. We all pay the cost in the end.
None of the holy grail vintage keyboards have brass weight yet they could still feel wonderful.

Not against the brass plate. They sound deeper, serve the purpose of a plate, and are good looking accent too.

On the other hand, this thread is gold and it feels good to let it out  ;D
The use of machined metals for keeb's cases is due to the fact that any custom made board run is made in extremely low volumes that do not justify a plastic injection mold. But a machining case is not the more sounding manufacturing method for such component, only tolerable due to low demand. One of the best cases ever made  is the Poker II's die casting case that is made of aluminum. It is still over-engineered due to the metal, but a great if not the best keeb case. I have one and its feeling, rigidity and weight are in total balance with the function of an actual keeb case that is still discreet and not for show.

Couldn't agree more. I keep telling myself that I'm going to buy a newer, flashier case for my 60% -- why would I when the poker cases were/are so well done.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 06 September 2019, 11:44:04
Although i do have to ask why Razer Greens when all the awesome Kaihl BOX click bar switches are available?
I think a clicky switch should not be louder on the up-stroke!

  • I don't see why people say MX switches are scratchy.
They were noticeably scratchier than the competition a couple years ago before Cherry renewed their tooling. Vintage switches are smooth, and new switches are smooth. It is those from the mech gaming craze-era that are bad, and many people's opinion are of switches from that time.

What the heck are they programming that needs a keyboard larger than a 65% is what I'd want to know.
If you do programming in Microsoft Visual Studio, you need to use the F-keys: especially for debugging. Some functions are with Shift. In that case, having the keys is more useful than saving space.

Personally, (for programming or just text-editing) I am also used to having all 6 keys in the nav cluster above the arrow keys, except for Insert.
Not all 65% have the Del key, and those that do usually sacrifice Home and End for it.
Not all programs support Ctrl+A/E for Home/End, but pretty much all programs support the dedicated keys and in text editors there are combinations with Shift and Ctrl with Home and End that are useful.

Years ago, Ripster wrote a guide on how to smelt and cast lead in your backyard BBQ grill to make weights to fit inside the bottom case shell.
... To put in his Filco, which was made from thin plastic. That was a mod to fix a deficiency.
Having a keyboard designed to have a brass weight from the start, inside an otherwise solid and relatively heavy enclosure of solid aluminium is a different thing.
I'd bet that many of those aluminium cases are already heavier than Ripster's leaded Filco.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 06 September 2019, 13:02:10
65% Layout is the best layout for those who don't program.

And what layout is..?

More than 68 keys for those programming EPROM chips?  555 timers?  What the heck are they programming that needs a keyboard larger than a 65% is what I'd want to know.

Right? IMO a more experienced dev needs _less_ keys. Use C-a and C-e for home and end. Use hjkl or jkl; for arrows. Page up and down are easily layered with Super or Fn so you don't even have to lift your fingers off the home row.

I guess FNs for macros?

I'm no dev, but I use Vim exclusively for some reason.  Also using jkl; for arrows $(homing_bar), and ui nm for other navi keys.  Though F row and numpad were very helpful for 3D modeling.

Or maybe some kind of VS Code hotkey voodoo?

What the heck are they programming that needs a keyboard larger than a 65% is what I'd want to know.

If you do programming in Microsoft Visual Studio, you need to use the F-keys: especially for debugging. Some functions are with Shift. In that case, having the keys is more useful than saving space.

So the answer to my question was yes--thank you for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 06 September 2019, 13:03:44
Red is okay.. but i found my zealios switches better.

To be honest.. too overhyped. Better version of cherry mx clear.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 06 September 2019, 13:12:35
(https://i.imgur.com/8owujwi.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appaboy on Wed, 11 September 2019, 17:07:46
Lemo connectors look bad on a desk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 11 September 2019, 17:52:25
Lemo connectors look bad on a desk

Buddy just wait until you see the pc cables i have to deal with when playing Arsenal
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Tue, 01 October 2019, 08:03:15
I forgot when I posted last time, so here's a find:

I find MX Browns more tactile than MX Blues.

Or Kailh Blues. They just feel like Razer Greens. Are Cherry Blues really that different?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: L0rdN1k0n on Tue, 01 October 2019, 16:36:11
Not a fan of the Model M, the switches were way too heavy for normal use.

Any form factor less than TKL is just silly.

Spending over $100 on a keycap set is also silly, and I don't think I'll ever do it. The markup is just ridiculous, even worse than Topre switches or the HHKB, but they'll keep charging it if people keep buying it.

I like MX Browns.

I also really like the Compaq RT101 slider over rubber dome switch, especially for $20.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vegs on Wed, 02 October 2019, 02:46:53
I forgot when I posted last time, so here's a find:

I find MX Browns more tactile than MX Blues.

Or Kailh Blues. They just feel like Razer Greens. Are Cherry Blues really that different?
Have you tried retooled mx blues? They feel pretty tactile
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Wed, 02 October 2019, 04:19:18
I forgot when I posted last time, so here's a find:

I find MX Browns more tactile than MX Blues.

Or Kailh Blues. They just feel like Razer Greens. Are Cherry Blues really that different?
Have you tried retooled mx blues? They feel pretty tactile

I haven't, there aren't that many Cherry Blues, and all keyboards with Blues in stores are either Kailh or Outemu.

Speaking of which - even clone Kailhs have done large leaps when it comes to smoothness. They're about on par with Outemu and Cherry (but not Gaterons, which feel like cutting butter) while having harder, more satisfying bottom-out (very similar to Cherries).
My Force K81 with Kailh Reds from 2017 is horribly scratchy even after a year of use. Now I'd probably go for Kailh switches instead of Outemu.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mizzoperator on Wed, 02 October 2019, 13:17:18
Just gonna vent some off here:
-Ergo keyboards. Not nice at all, very awkward, not very ergonomic at all.
-RGB can be pretty good at times, especially when it isn't overly flashy.
-USB is for sheisters, PS/2 should be used for all keyboards. PS/2 is rad.
-Rubber domes are still a solid choice for typing if they aren't super mushy, mechanical isn't always the answer.
-People who mod their Guitar Hero controller strumbars to use any switch other than clones of White Alps are evil.*
-There is literally no reason for Topre to be as expensive as it is.
-Shine on keycaps isn't all that bad.
-Every keycap is a relegendable keycap if you don't fear god!

Somehow, I doubt these are all that unpopular, but I still wanted to get it off my chest.
_______________
*Technically not a keyboard opinion, but it still involves switches, so it's close enough.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Wed, 02 October 2019, 17:50:38
 
 
This is unpopular opinions, not false beliefs. Ergonomic keyboards, even with simple measures like stagger/orthogonal are better for your fingers. Don't spread misinformation by claiming that they're not ergonomic, that's foolish.
Also you could type on a keyboard for a hundred years and wouldn't notice an input difference between PS/2 and USB. PS/2 is also hell to put in :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 02 October 2019, 20:38:22
 
 
This is unpopular opinions, not false beliefs. Ergonomic keyboards, even with simple measures like stagger/orthogonal are better for your fingers. Don't spread misinformation by claiming that they're not ergonomic, that's foolish.
Also you could type on a keyboard for a hundred years and wouldn't notice an input difference between PS/2 and USB. PS/2 is also hell to put in :(

PS/2 in addition is obsolete really
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Lanrefni on Wed, 02 October 2019, 20:50:34
 
 
This is unpopular opinions, not false beliefs. Ergonomic keyboards, even with simple measures like stagger/orthogonal are better for your fingers. Don't spread misinformation by claiming that they're not ergonomic, that's foolish.
Also you could type on a keyboard for a hundred years and wouldn't notice an input difference between PS/2 and USB. PS/2 is also hell to put in :(

PS/2 in addition is obsolete really

I was shocked my X570 motherboard actually had a PS/2 port,should come in handy if I ever dig my RC128BM out of the box it's been in since last year.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Thu, 03 October 2019, 10:51:52
 
 
This is unpopular opinions, not false beliefs. Ergonomic keyboards, even with simple measures like stagger/orthogonal are better for your fingers. Don't spread misinformation by claiming that they're not ergonomic, that's foolish.
Also you could type on a keyboard for a hundred years and wouldn't notice an input difference between PS/2 and USB. PS/2 is also hell to put in :(

To be fair to the person you're responding to, there are loads of people in this hobby making claims about ergonomics that don't have any formal training in actual ergonomics (or any research to back up said claims).

I love my Ergodox, for instance.  I also know that I have massive hands, so the thumb cluster placement is great for me but could be terrible for others.  I also know that it took me a while to get used to, and that there are probably several sub-optimal aspects of my key configuration.

Whether a keyboard is ergonomic or not, at least the way we use the term, tends to be a sliding scale, but there are always more variables to consider.  Ortholinear keyboards can be more ergonomic than standard row-staggered keyboards, for instance, but not always.  If it's not a split ortho, it can potentially cause more wrist strain than a row-staggered layout.

In general, we just need to let people like what they like and not try making hugely objective claims.  Likewise, the person you quoted has little business saying that said keyboards aren't ergonomic.  He'd be better off saying "I find them uncomfortable" or similar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Thu, 03 October 2019, 11:22:00
 
 
This is unpopular opinions, not false beliefs. Ergonomic keyboards, even with simple measures like stagger/orthogonal are better for your fingers. Don't spread misinformation by claiming that they're not ergonomic, that's foolish.
Also you could type on a keyboard for a hundred years and wouldn't notice an input difference between PS/2 and USB. PS/2 is also hell to put in :(

PS/2 in addition is obsolete really

I was shocked my X570 motherboard actually had a PS/2 port,should come in handy if I ever dig my RC128BM out of the box it's been in since last year.

We still use membrane, Intel Core 2 Duo and PS/2 keyboards in the School!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Thu, 03 October 2019, 14:00:17
In general, we just need to let people like what they like and not try making hugely objective claims.  Likewise, the person you quoted has little business saying that said keyboards aren't ergonomic.  He'd be better off saying "I find them uncomfortable" or similar.

Well said. It just bothers me to see people making disingenuous claims to bolster their opinions; it’s totally fine to dislike something, even something good for you, but not okay to make up facts about them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 03 October 2019, 15:09:08
-Ergo keyboards. Not nice at all, very awkward, not very ergonomic at all.
I think there are indeed too many keyboards that have been marketed as "ergonomic" but which are suboptimal ( ⇒  optimising one aspect), often at the expense of some other aspect that might be more important.

The most bullcrap thing I've heard people claim is that an orthonormal keyboard would be ergonomic because it is orthonormal.
No, the ergonomic feature would be if it was split and had angling and/or tenting. For a non-split orthonormal keyboard in one flat piece to impose less ulnar deviation than even a regular row-staggered QWERTY, it would need to have as much hand-separation as on a Kinesis contoured or Maltron.
I believe that the Truly Ergonomic and TypeMatrix: both of which are flat and have insufficient angling/hand separation do more damage than good.

Column-staggered keyboards have an edge over orthonormal because they are more shaped after the hand, but otherwise the same applies to them.
If there is no tenting, a properly row-staggered keyboard half (that is staggered with higher rows closer to the middle, i.e. the right half on a "regular" keyboard) imposes less forearm pronation than a column-staggered keyboard.
Also, with row-stagger, the middle/ring/pinky columns are actually very similar to to the columns on a column-staggered keyboard — only with the keys rotated, which gives it that advantage over orthonormal.

These things above isn't "making up facts". This is applying common knowledge: common knowledge in both the research literature and in the community at large.

-Every keycap is a relegendable keycap if you don't fear god!
Indeed!  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Thu, 03 October 2019, 21:23:44
Alright I'll try to get us back to the good ole' unpopular opinions here. The best arrow cluster setup for a secondary layer on a 60% KB is.
 [
;  '
 /
IMO
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Thu, 03 October 2019, 21:31:07
Alright I'll try to get us back to the good ole' unpopular opinions here. The best arrow cluster setup for a secondary layer on a 60% KB is.
 [
;  '
 /
IMO

Naw.  Just ditch the right-hand modifier keys and put your arrow keys in a single row.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Apple_%28Standard%29_Keyboard_M0116.jpg/640px-Apple_%28Standard%29_Keyboard_M0116.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Thu, 03 October 2019, 22:15:40
Alright I'll try to get us back to the good ole' unpopular opinions here. The best arrow cluster setup for a secondary layer on a 60% KB is.
 [
;  '
 /
IMO

Naw.  Just ditch the right-hand modifier keys and put your arrow keys in a single row.

Show Image
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Apple_%28Standard%29_Keyboard_M0116.jpg/640px-Apple_%28Standard%29_Keyboard_M0116.jpg)


That is actually a pretty comfortable setup once you get used to it too TBH. I use that arrow cluster on my 40% boards.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mizzoperator on Fri, 04 October 2019, 08:20:01
I believe some further clarification is in order.
I don't believe that ALL keyboards aren't ergonomic. I didn't really make this clear enough in my previous post, but my personal opinion is that I believe ergonomic keyboards don't really make typing any more comfortable or ergonomic for me personally.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Devil on Fri, 04 October 2019, 08:57:41
Not a fan of the Model M, the switches were way too heavy for normal use.

Any form factor less than TKL is just silly.

Spending over $100 on a keycap set is also silly, and I don't think I'll ever do it. The markup is just ridiculous, even worse than Topre switches or the HHKB, but they'll keep charging it if people keep buying it.

I like MX Browns.

I also really like the Compaq RT101 slider over rubber dome switch, especially for $20.

What are you smoking?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mizzoperator on Fri, 04 October 2019, 09:11:46
Not a fan of the Model M, the switches were way too heavy for normal use.

Any form factor less than TKL is just silly.

Spending over $100 on a keycap set is also silly, and I don't think I'll ever do it. The markup is just ridiculous, even worse than Topre switches or the HHKB, but they'll keep charging it if people keep buying it.

I like MX Browns.

I also really like the Compaq RT101 slider over rubber dome switch, especially for $20.

What are you smoking?

They're not smoking, they're high out of their mind off of the cheap plastic fumes emanating from the Browns and their RT101.
I mean, sure, mindlessly praising the Model M and claiming it's the best keyboard ever is an Argument from Deskthority* at best, but preferring Browns over Buckling Springs is a crime against humanity and just plain wrong. That's like preferring low-fat artificial chocolate skim milk over a big fat chocolate mocha milkshake.

___________________
*Zing! I hit you with a pun!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Fri, 04 October 2019, 18:37:19
Green mx switches are the only cherry or cherry equivalent switches worth getting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Venaros on Sun, 06 October 2019, 14:07:42
http://
Any form factor less than TKL is just silly.

What about 75%? You keep pretty much the same amount of dedicated keys but in a more compact form factor
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: demik on Sun, 06 October 2019, 15:49:26
http://
Any form factor less than TKL is just silly.

What about 75%? You keep pretty much the same amount of dedicated keys but in a more compact form factor

75% is just an unnecessary cluster**** of keys. At that point, might as well just keep the tkl form factor as it’s cleaner anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sun, 06 October 2019, 19:41:43
I'm debating this myself. I want a smaller footprint than my full-size so that I can use a mouse or trackball on my keyboard tray.

Previous experiments have shown that maybe a TKL is a little too big for comfortable use of mouse / trackball.

I've tried various small form-factors at meetups. 75% seems surprisingly comfortable. And with the right keycaps, modifiers are very distinct from alphas. Smaller form than TKL, most of the keys.

But 75% lacks nav cluster, arrow key separation, F-row separation, and spaces between F-keys. It does not correspond to muscle memory. So I wonder about typing efficiency.

I have the chance to buy a KBD75 from KBDFans, or maybe a KBD8x mkii TKL if extras are available. There's a strong argument to be made for either one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevadu on Wed, 09 October 2019, 01:34:04
I'm debating this myself. I want a smaller footprint than my full-size so that I can use a mouse or trackball on my keyboard tray.

Previous experiments have shown that maybe a TKL is a little too big for comfortable use of mouse / trackball.

I've tried various small form-factors at meetups. 75% seems surprisingly comfortable. And with the right keycaps, modifiers are very distinct from alphas. Smaller form than TKL, most of the keys.

But 75% lacks nav cluster, arrow key separation, F-row separation, and spaces between F-keys. It does not correspond to muscle memory. So I wonder about typing efficiency.

I have the chance to buy a KBD75 from KBDFans, or maybe a KBD8x mkii TKL if extras are available. There's a strong argument to be made for either one.

There are 75% boards with F-row separation, spaces between F-keys, and a blocker before the arrows (not total separation but good enough in my opinion at least).  The Xeno 75 is a good example.  There's also the Satisfaction 75 which even has the arrows keys completely separated.  Of course these were both group buys...I don't know any boards you can just buy like that.  Just saying they do exist.

Personally I also assign Fn+arrows to nav commands and I actually find that more convenient than a nav cluster because I switch back and forth a lot.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 12 October 2019, 18:38:43
Alright I'll try to get us back to the good ole' unpopular opinions here. The best arrow cluster setup for a secondary layer on a 60% KB is.
 [
;  '
 /
IMO

On my HHKB, I use FN+ those keys for the arrows (which is the default), but I overlayed them to be:

     PgUp
Home  End
    PgDown

Using the right OS modifier key (next to the spacebar). It's quite easy to leave your hand in one spot and get quick access to all the nav just by alternating pressing with your thumb or pinky.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ryn1x on Thu, 31 October 2019, 21:21:30
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 01 November 2019, 06:44:01
Keycap opinions:
- I prefer the feel of $50 PBT keycaps over $130 GMK or $120 SA keycaps or $100 JTK keycaps with high-quality ABS
- OEM > Cherry > SA, by feel
- SA > OEM > Cherry, by looks
- There should be more group buys for beautiful OEM PBT keycaps

Keyboard opinions:
- I like thick plastic cases over metal cases
- I don't like the floating keys design
- full-size > tkl > the rest

Ok, I'm done. Also, my opinions will probably change tomorrow ;)

OEM bad

DSA and G20 good
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Fri, 01 November 2019, 07:39:17
Keycap opinions:
- I prefer the feel of $50 PBT keycaps over $130 GMK or $120 SA keycaps or $100 JTK keycaps with high-quality ABS
- OEM > Cherry > SA, by feel
- SA > OEM > Cherry, by looks
- There should be more group buys for beautiful OEM PBT keycaps

Keyboard opinions:
- I like thick plastic cases over metal cases
- I don't like the floating keys design
- full-size > tkl > the rest

Ok, I'm done. Also, my opinions will probably change tomorrow ;)

OEM bad

DSA and G20 good

I actually would rather go for oem over DSA, i never tried G20 so i can't say for those and i would add change the keyboard order a bit:
battleship > 105 > TKL > anything with no space between the clusters
and ISO > ansi
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ryn1x on Fri, 01 November 2019, 09:29:56
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ryn1x on Fri, 01 November 2019, 09:40:56
.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 02 November 2019, 10:16:14
For most people who seek productivity and input proficiency, a full 101+ key keyboard with inverted T arrow cluster and dedicated numpad will destroy micro/novelty/trendy keyboard formats on every metric except portability and desk space. 

The Das Keyboard 4 might be the most generally capable keyboard ever made and the volume knob/media keys are among it's best features.  It's weakness is crummy caps which is easily remedied.

Using all blank caps forces you to touch type and makes you better and faster at typing. 

Colemak or Dvorak are more efficient than Qwerty for speed and efficiency, but if you learn them, you'll struggle when moving to computers that have standard layouts so it's not worth it for most people. 

Trackballs will never be as fast or efficient as a good lasermouse, but they do have many advantages for RSI and precision work.

Realforce Topre keyboards are excellent when you stay on their platform and use it exclusively.  You will become very fast with it, but your hands have to adapt first.

The Model F PC AT has the best typing experience of any keyboard made, party due to it's tolerable layout compared to others of it's era.  But it's loud.

A clean Northgate Omnikey is probably better than anything you own, including your car ;) 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ergonaut on Mon, 04 November 2019, 03:26:49
Colemak or Dvorak are more efficient than Qwerty for speed and efficiency, but if you learn them, you'll struggle when moving to computers that have standard layouts so it's not worth it for most people.

The highlighted part seems like a very popular opinion to me, but let me counter with my less popular opinion: it's just not true. I've been using an alternative layout for ~8 years now, and I can still use neanderthal QWERTY keyboards just fine, with about the same speed and accuracy as before. It's just a different skill, but you don't really forget how to use it. I might swear and roll my eyes whenever I'm forced to use QWERTY, but I can still do it.

That said, I would indeed struggle if I had to use a QWERTY board with blank keycaps – which has never happened so far.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 04 November 2019, 03:42:44
I learned qwerty because i got tired of having to switch to french layout on every distros i tried, and i now use qwerty on all my pc even ones with physical azerty keyboards but i can still with a bit of errors on the 1st few leters type on an azerty pc so i guess it would be the same with colemak/dvorak... i do not plan to try because i do not really need to type much faster. but as long as you interact regularly with "classic" layouts you should be able to switch from one to the other pretty effortlessly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 06 November 2019, 12:47:13
Qwetry is a necessary evil for most people at this point, at least until Elon creates the neural interface to bypass typing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 07 November 2019, 00:19:54
The only purpose for a desk is to put a keyboard and mouse on, so there's no point in "saving" any space.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 07 November 2019, 02:09:54
The only purpose for a desk is to put a keyboard and mouse on, so there's no point in "saving" any space.

This isn't an opinion, it's actually just not true lol
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Thu, 07 November 2019, 05:33:18
The only purpose for a desk is to put a keyboard and mouse on, so there's no point in "saving" any space.

This isn't an opinion, it's actually just not true lol

For reals! What if you got a small desk!

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Thu, 07 November 2019, 06:51:50
The only purpose for a desk is to put a keyboard and mouse on, so there's no point in "saving" any space.
This isn't an opinion, it's actually just not true lol

For reals! What if you got a small desk!
well you could get a bigger one, or a smaller mouse why is it always the keyboard that need to be smaller?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 07 November 2019, 08:01:31
The only purpose for a desk is to put a keyboard and mouse on, so there's no point in "saving" any space.
This isn't an opinion, it's actually just not true lol

For reals! What if you got a small desk!
well you could get a bigger one, or a smaller mouse why is it always the keyboard that need to be smaller?
Only Handlets need anything larger than a tkl tbh.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 07 November 2019, 08:07:57
By virtue of me having it it’s my opinion, and clearly hyperbole :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 07 November 2019, 08:22:13
By virtue of me having it it’s my opinion, and clearly hyperbole :p

I have crippling autism, and cannot detect sarcasm. Please forgive me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 07 November 2019, 08:29:25
By virtue of me having it it’s my opinion, and clearly hyperbole :p

I have crippling autism, and cannot detect sarcasm. Please forgive me.

No worries mate. Fwiw, I have a diagnosis too!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Thu, 07 November 2019, 09:01:39
QWERTY is absolutely fine and no problem at all if you don't type weirdly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Thu, 07 November 2019, 09:04:07
QWERTY is absolutely fine and no problem at all if you don't type weirdly.
says the man who admit to type weirdly in his videos.
and yeah if do not look at your keyboard qwerty is no problem, only the set layout on the machine is.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 07 November 2019, 11:13:51
Typing weirdly is fine, as is not caring about speed. Just use whatever fingers for whatever key feels right for you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 07 November 2019, 11:21:09
Typing weirdly is fine, as is not caring about speed. Just use whatever fingers for whatever key feels right for you.

Q and P should use ring finger

Home row is awefjio;  NOT,  asdfjkl;
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Herman on Thu, 07 November 2019, 11:25:18
Typing weirdly is fine, as is not caring about speed. Just use whatever fingers for whatever key feels right for you.

Q and P should use ring finger

Home row is awefjio;  NOT,  asdfjkl;


awdjio > awefjio

and if im feeling spicy sometimes its awdhiop

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Thu, 07 November 2019, 11:45:35
Keycap opinions:
- I prefer the feel of $50 PBT keycaps over $130 GMK or $120 SA keycaps or $100 JTK keycaps with high-quality ABS
- OEM > Cherry > SA, by feel
- SA > OEM > Cherry, by looks
- There should be more group buys for beautiful OEM PBT keycaps

Keyboard opinions:
- I like thick plastic cases over metal cases
- I don't like the floating keys design
- full-size > tkl > the rest

Ok, I'm done. Also, my opinions will probably change tomorrow ;)

There's nothing wrong with OEM profile, it's popular and common for a reason. Asian manufacturers use it widely because many people would prefer a slightly-taller keycap than Cherry. It's fine on domes, Topre, and scissor-switch.

The problem is with stock Cherry switches. Cherry-profile keycaps and DCS work best for stock Cherry switches because Cherry wobbles, and shorter keycaps can mean less wobble.

But with less-wobbly MX-compatible switches, including some BOX switches, OEM is fine. It's pretty sturdy if the switches are.

If there were premium OEM options, that would be great.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 07 November 2019, 14:03:00
Speaking of wobble...

I do not care about wobble, it's not a metric I give two ****s about as long as keys don't bind.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevadu on Thu, 07 November 2019, 17:59:46
Speaking of wobble...

I do not care about wobble, it's not a metric I give two ****s about as long as keys don't bind.

Thank you!  Of all the things to be anal about wobble doesn't even need consideration...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Thu, 07 November 2019, 18:20:56
QWERTY is absolutely fine and no problem at all if you don't type weirdly.
says the man who admit to type weirdly in his videos.
and yeah if do not look at your keyboard qwerty is no problem, only the set layout on the machine is.
I'll go further even, at least I don't type in the way that gets me RSI and subsequently necessitates getting some unspeakable ergo nightmare board to save my broken limbs :p .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 08 November 2019, 08:11:02
Speaking of wobble...

I do not care about wobble, it's not a metric I give two ****s about as long as keys don't bind.

Speaking of wobble...

I do not care about wobble, it's not a metric I give two ****s about as long as keys don't bind.

Thank you!  Of all the things to be anal about wobble doesn't even need consideration...

The reason to care about wobble is mostly sound related, and it also gives a certain "less premium" feeling to any board if you are a lighter typist. I understand the feeling you guys have if you aren't sensitive to that sort of thing though, it's one of the lower tier concerns on stock keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Straw on Fri, 08 November 2019, 08:22:56
Wobble makes the board feel less solidly made for sure.
Like it came out of a candy machine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 08 November 2019, 08:29:46
Wobble makes the board feel less solidly made for sure.
Like it came out of a candy machine.

Plus it makes more rattle noise, and makes the board sound like white noise.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gampela on Sat, 09 November 2019, 10:16:09
EnjoyPBT's (and I guess this goes for GMK and many other makers too) alpha legends are a bit too large/bold, which make the keycaps look a bit comical. Also, to my eye SA, XDA, DSA or whatever set that center their legends look kinda "childish" for lack of a better word. I think Leopold really nails the legend aesthetics the best.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sun, 10 November 2019, 21:23:35
Gampela, I'm not sure your opinion is entirely unpopular. ePBT is known for printing their legends a little bold and comical (although 9009 R4 is getting closer to GMK). Saying that GMK is also too bold and near-comical is unpopular, but I agree with you. [I am typing this on GMK].

You're right about Leopold. Their doubleshots are very professional-looking, and most people agree. There's a reason their caps are called "God tier."

I also enjoy Varmilo, although the italics are somewhat controversial. My favourite keycaps - Leopold, Varmilo, and DCS, all have less-bolded legends. WYSE DCS was the nicest, in my view.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sun, 10 November 2019, 23:49:06
I also enjoy Varmilo, although the italics are somewhat controversial. My favourite keycaps - Leopold, Varmilo, and DCS, all have less-bolded legends. WYSE DCS was the nicest, in my view.

Yup, I hope some day SP does a premium version of DCS, 1.5mm thick. I prefer the look of it to GMK.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: trombompoline on Mon, 11 November 2019, 04:13:37
Any clicky switch lighter than gateron green is unusable.

Typing on anything other than standard QWERTY is retarded unless you literally only use your computer. Even then alternate layouts aren't supported by anything.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gampela on Mon, 11 November 2019, 04:27:19
Gampela, I'm not sure your opinion is entirely unpopular. ePBT is known for printing their legends a little bold and comical (although 9009 R4 is getting closer to GMK). Saying that GMK is also too bold and near-comical is unpopular, but I agree with you. [I am typing this on GMK].

I have to admit I don't actually own any GMK sets and my previous inclusion of GMK was based entirely on falsely thinking that ePBT 1:1 copied their legend design from old Cherry/GMK sets. This is good to know. I guess the problem isn't too big since I didn't notice these differences from pictures. I just know I much prefer Leopold pd to ePBT (9009, R2 I think) when I compare them close by.

You're right about Leopold. Their doubleshots are very professional-looking, and most people agree. There's a reason their caps are called "God tier."

I also enjoy Varmilo, although the italics are somewhat controversial. My favourite keycaps - Leopold, Varmilo, and DCS, all have less-bolded legends. WYSE DCS was the nicest, in my view.

I've praised Leopold's makings here so many times I wonder if people start thinking I'm a paid shill. I just really like what they have got going on. I guess it's too much to ask for them to start selling separate kits with wide compatibility. Varmilo does have pretty nice variety of keycaps but I don't think I can go back to oem after getting used to sleeker profiles. Leopold's ss2 profile actually sits noticeably lower than cherry which is another thing I quite like.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Mon, 11 November 2019, 14:43:19
Oh, your assumption is right. As far as I can tell, ePBT is largely trying to mimic classic GMK. However, its dye-sub process was always 'runnier' or blurrier than GMK. It is closing in on GMK in legend sharpness, however. But there are other issues with their keycaps.

I actually like the feel of ePBT more than GMK, no matter if it is on MX Browns or Zealios. ePBT 9009 was using some very smooth-surfaced blanks that were still grippy. But the keycaps themselves were less consistent than GMK - some of them had flaring at the bottom, for example.

If you put an ePBT set on a big board, you can usually see the difference from GMK, which is more orderly and regimented. GMK is known for a higher degree of consistency in the keycap shape, and they don't warp or get tilted off-centre easily. If only the legends were a nicer font, like Gorton Modified.

I find the colouration of most Leopold keycap sets to be a bit dull, but that's understandable as they have to use PBT. The legends are amazing, though. Really set a standard for the industry. And the profile is truly something special. I wonder if the rumoured "Gateron profile" will beat it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gampela on Mon, 11 November 2019, 15:34:03
Oh, your assumption is right. As far as I can tell, ePBT is largely trying to mimic classic GMK. However, its dye-sub process was always 'runnier' or blurrier than GMK. It is closing in on GMK in legend sharpness, however. But there are other issues with their keycaps.

I actually like the feel of ePBT more than GMK, no matter if it is on MX Browns or Zealios. ePBT 9009 was using some very smooth-surfaced blanks that were still grippy. But the keycaps themselves were less consistent than GMK - some of them had flaring at the bottom, for example.

If you put an ePBT set on a big board, you can usually see the difference from GMK, which is more orderly and regimented. GMK is known for a higher degree of consistency in the keycap shape, and they don't warp or get tilted off-centre easily. If only the legends were a nicer font, like Gorton Modified.

I find the colouration of most Leopold keycap sets to be a bit dull, but that's understandable as they have to use PBT. The legends are amazing, though. Really set a standard for the industry. And the profile is truly something special. I wonder if the rumoured "Gateron profile" will beat it.

There are definitely some inconsistencies on my ePBT set as well. My set has really rough bottom edges. It's actually so bad that you can easily see the roughness from above when using them. Makes me almost wonder if I should manually sandpaper them. Not really something you wish to do after dropping 100-150€ on them. This is especially weird since my blank gateron set has perfectly fine edges, which ePBT at least used to use as a keycap suplier to my knowledge. Maybe it was just one bad patch. The dye sublimation is pretty good on my set but there is some blurriness especially on longer words like "delete" and "insert".

Another thing I noticed is how scooped and barred F and J keys clanck differently when bottoming out on my normal south-facing non-led cherry switches. Really noticeable when using silenced switches. My Lepold set doesn't do this, but then again they don't seem to be using extra scooped homing keys.

Only thing I somewhat dislike about Leopold doubleshots is their slightly smaller size on xy axis leaving larger caps between the keys. Not a dealbreaker though.

By Gateron profile do you mean this one? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/woo-dy/woo-dy-a-67-keys-mechanical-keyboard-that-is-breathing (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/woo-dy/woo-dy-a-67-keys-mechanical-keyboard-that-is-breathing)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 12 November 2019, 14:03:49
I've heard of keycap flaring on ePBT 9009 R2, and my R4 has it as well. According to some hobbyists, 'enthusiasts' are expected to undertake minor post-sale tasks with some Chinese parts, such as sanding down keycap flaring. Apparently, you have to do some work on them to get them to 'endgame' level or whatnot.

See, for example, this review of ePBT 9009:

https://brianlee.blog/2018/07/26/review-enjoypbt-9009/

Quote
However, the keycaps are not all perfect.

Show Image
(https://brianleereviews.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/fullsizeoutput_113.jpeg)


As seen in the photo above, the edges of the keycaps are pretty jagged and rough. In some cases, there are even extra PBT bits protruding outwards from the keycaps. Nothing that a file can’t solve, but I wish it were better. You get jagged edges with most PBT sets, even the more expensive ones like IMSTO Ural. However, the edges on /dev/tty are near perfect on every key and are the benchmark of PBT quality (as in the keycap itself, not the legends) to me so seeing burrs on the ePBT is off-putting.

Warping is a serious issue that past iterations of ePBT/Gateron caps and most PBT keysets face. In many cases, the long modifier keys and spacebars are so warped that even with the most well-lubed of stabilizers, they would cause an uneven depress and as such cause the stabilizer to rattle.

In the case of the ePBT 9009, warping is still an issue on the longer keys, but much less so. On the shorter keys like both shifts, backspace and enter, warping is a mild issue at best. The keys look relatively straight on all 3 axes and probably won’t cause an issue with your stabilizers.


I've heard that the way ePBT caps are shaped is also suboptimal for Zeal switches. Apparently, they slam into the switch housing, which undermines the silencing. I'll have to test this.

I'm going to be testing Leopold doubleshots on my Zilents eventually, after I'm done with GMK.

As for Gateron profile, that might be it. Only a little is known at this time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Thu, 14 November 2019, 11:40:07
Oh, your assumption is right. As far as I can tell, ePBT is largely trying to mimic classic GMK. However, its dye-sub process was always 'runnier' or blurrier than GMK. It is closing in on GMK in legend sharpness, however. But there are other issues with their keycaps.

I actually like the feel of ePBT more than GMK, no matter if it is on MX Browns or Zealios. ePBT 9009 was using some very smooth-surfaced blanks that were still grippy. But the keycaps themselves were less consistent than GMK - some of them had flaring at the bottom, for example.

If you put an ePBT set on a big board, you can usually see the difference from GMK, which is more orderly and regimented. GMK is known for a higher degree of consistency in the keycap shape, and they don't warp or get tilted off-centre easily. If only the legends were a nicer font, like Gorton Modified.

I find the colouration of most Leopold keycap sets to be a bit dull, but that's understandable as they have to use PBT. The legends are amazing, though. Really set a standard for the industry. And the profile is truly something special. I wonder if the rumoured "Gateron profile" will beat it.


So that's what Epbt is!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 14 November 2019, 13:13:49
I wonder if the rumoured "Gateron profile" will beat [Leopold].
Gateron manufactures the plastic keycaps, that get printed and sold as EnjoyPBT. I dunno who does the printing, whether EnjoyPBT is a separate company or just a brand of Gateron's.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Thu, 14 November 2019, 13:28:19
Okay, but it turns out that we're talking about two different things here.

ePBT uses (or used to) Gateron blanks for their printing process. The Gateron blanks are well-liked, and represent good value. There have been some rumors that ePBT hasn't been using those blanks in recent batches.

There are a number of Chinese manufacturers who are distributing keycaps, and I've seen that some of the different companies seem to be using the same blanks, the same molds. Probably Gateron, but I don't have measuring equipment to tell. Again, some of the Cherry-profile keycaps from different dye-sub companies look like they are using the same molds.

The other issue, though, is the new 'Gateron profile,' which seems to be something new and unique. 'Gateron profile,' in this context, is not a reference to the Gateron blanks used by ePBT, but an entirely new profile that is property of Gateron. These keycaps are not commonly available yet, so details are scarce.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 14 November 2019, 13:56:00
an entirely new profile that is property of Gateron.
I know about that one. But please express yourself properly!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 14 November 2019, 15:07:55
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 15 November 2019, 05:51:53
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

Cherry MX brown sound and feel terrible though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vegs on Fri, 15 November 2019, 08:12:38
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

Cherry MX brown sound and feel terrible though.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGuhL4U2WyjdkaY/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 15 November 2019, 12:09:35
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

Cherry MX brown sound and feel terrible though.
Show Image
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGuhL4U2WyjdkaY/giphy.gif)


I don't understand this GIF
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: romevi on Fri, 15 November 2019, 12:23:47
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

Cherry MX brown sound and feel terrible though.
Show Image
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGuhL4U2WyjdkaY/giphy.gif)


I don't understand this GIF

How is it misunderstandable to you?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 15 November 2019, 13:22:42
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

Cherry MX brown sound and feel terrible though.
Show Image
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGuhL4U2WyjdkaY/giphy.gif)


I don't understand this GIF

How is it misunderstandable to you?

Oh, it says "wrong" D:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 15 November 2019, 13:23:31
I can describe the feel and sound of cherry mx browns.

The sound is kinda like scratching against some plastic plunger, which is a horrible clack. The feel is kinda like cherry mx reds, except i have more accuracy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 15 November 2019, 14:51:44
I mean, tbh brown's aren't the example I'm speaking on, but they sound better than Alps to me still.

Alps are just so........Hollow? I think that's what it is, but I can't really say.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Fri, 15 November 2019, 16:36:43
Keycap selection has a considerable impact on the sound of MX Browns, though. That's why I put WYSE DCS on them. It's a deeper, lower-pitched clack. Even GMK sounds chittery on Brown, but WYSE is an improvement.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VimLover on Fri, 15 November 2019, 19:12:17

1. Switches are personal preference and cherry switches and rubber domes are just as good as super lubed holy trash panda X zealios hand made switches.

2. The Microsoft Sculpt is more Ergonomic than Ergodox and other non sculpted split keyboards.

3. High end plastic like the HHKB is much better than aluminum. Better weight, better looks.

4. I lied in #1, Topre is the best switch.


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 15 November 2019, 20:33:01

1. Switches are personal preference and cherry switches and rubber domes are just as good as super lubed holy trash panda X zealios hand made switches.

2. The Microsoft Sculpt is more Ergonomic than Ergodox and other non sculpted split keyboards.

3. High end plastic like the HHKB is much better than aluminum. Better weight, better looks.

4. I lied in #1, Topre is the best switch.




wow the topre circlejerk, so brave, controversial and unpopular!

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Sat, 16 November 2019, 03:32:04
can't fault him, he loves vim, real programmers uses C-x M-c M-butterfly :)

(https://xkcd.com/378/)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VimLover on Sat, 16 November 2019, 18:41:55

1. Switches are personal preference and cherry switches and rubber domes are just as good as super lubed holy trash panda X zealios hand made switches.

2. The Microsoft Sculpt is more Ergonomic than Ergodox and other non sculpted split keyboards.

3. High end plastic like the HHKB is much better than aluminum. Better weight, better looks.

4. I lied in #1, Topre is the best switch.




wow the topre circlejerk, so brave, controversial and unpopular!

I would argue that it has become a fad to hate on Topre as an overpriced switch/expensive rubber dome. At least that's my read of the current meta.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cicada on Sun, 17 November 2019, 07:28:47
Heavy keyboards are overrated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Sun, 17 November 2019, 08:24:43
can't fault him, he loves vim, real programmers uses C-x M-c M-butterfly :)

(https://xkcd.com/378/)

I don't even program  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sun, 17 November 2019, 08:44:37
Heavy keyboards are overrated.

Only if they look bad :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Sun, 17 November 2019, 12:30:49
Heavy keyboards are overrated.

I would rather like something that's light and portable.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ergonaut on Sun, 17 November 2019, 16:37:28
Typing speed doesn’t matter.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Sun, 17 November 2019, 19:47:31
Typing speed doesn’t matter.

*120 wpm noises*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MMKB on Mon, 18 November 2019, 18:58:09
Heavy keyboards are overrated.

Yes!

(“Do you hear the people sing?”)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cultofjosh on Tue, 19 November 2019, 04:09:12
can't fault him, he loves vim, real programmers uses C-x M-c M-butterfly :)

(https://xkcd.com/378/)

Haha, emacs rocks! I own the domain correct.horse - guess which XKCD that's based on :)

Back to topic:

1) I don't get clacks or artisan keycaps
2) You CAN have too many 60% keyboards
3) I can't stand DSA (I have the one set that's based on star trek TNG, and I will never be using it again)
4) SA is far superior to DSA
5) You've got to be insane to try a 40% keyboard

Engage...

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Tue, 19 November 2019, 04:41:24

Haha, emacs rocks! I own the domain correct.horse - guess which XKCD that's based on :)

Back to topic:

1) I don't get clacks or artisan keycaps
2) You CAN have too many 60% keyboards
3) I can't stand DSA (I have the one set that's based on star trek TNG, and I will never be using it again)
4) SA is far superior to DSA
5) You've got to be insane to try a 40% keyboard

Engage...

you should not give away your password like that

and really i kind of think that those opinions are not that unpopular, at least i pretty much am the same way, will see with time if it changes
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 19 November 2019, 07:06:11

Haha, emacs rocks! I own the domain correct.horse - guess which XKCD that's based on :)

Back to topic:

1) I don't get clacks or artisan keycaps
2) You CAN have too many 60% keyboards
3) I can't stand DSA (I have the one set that's based on star trek TNG, and I will never be using it again)
4) SA is far superior to DSA
5) You've got to be insane to try a 40% keyboard

Engage...

you should not give away your password like that

and really i kind of think that those opinions are not that unpopular, at least i pretty much am the same way, will see with time if it changes

I don't even have password§ to show you
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cultofjosh on Tue, 19 November 2019, 12:43:04
you should not give away your password like that

OMG, I didn't get the joke for at least 30 seconds. I was confused. I guess I'm still tired, LOL.
I use a much longer passphrase for 1password and long random junk for almost every website. I know my email password too, but that's about it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Tue, 19 November 2019, 13:25:59
Icon + Text Modifiers > Icon-Only Modifiers

I didn't think this would be unpopular but I keep seeing more sets that have been coming out that use icon-only modifiers. I always think the backspaces look awkward with the tiny little arrow and all that empty space.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Tue, 19 November 2019, 14:22:35

Haha, emacs rocks! I own the domain correct.horse - guess which XKCD that's based on :)

Back to topic:

1) I don't get clacks or artisan keycaps
2) You CAN have too many 60% keyboards
3) I can't stand DSA (I have the one set that's based on star trek TNG, and I will never be using it again)
4) SA is far superior to DSA
5) You've got to be insane to try a 40% keyboard

Engage...

you should not give away your password like that

and really i kind of think that those opinions are not that unpopular, at least i pretty much am the same way, will see with time if it changes

I don't even have password§ to show you

that was not for you Sintpinty, you do not need to answer all and every post (especially if you have nothing to add)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Tue, 19 November 2019, 15:59:58
^ and please stop replying 5 times to one pose because you refuse to learn how to insert quotes. It’s really not difficult, just hit ‘reply’ and press ‘insert quote’ so you don’t crap every thread with a wall of responses.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 19 November 2019, 20:06:52

Haha, emacs rocks! I own the domain correct.horse - guess which XKCD that's based on :)

Back to topic:

1) I don't get clacks or artisan keycaps
2) You CAN have too many 60% keyboards
3) I can't stand DSA (I have the one set that's based on star trek TNG, and I will never be using it again)
4) SA is far superior to DSA
5) You've got to be insane to try a 40% keyboard

Engage...

you should not give away your password like that

and really i kind of think that those opinions are not that unpopular, at least i pretty much am the same way, will see with time if it changes

I don't even have password§ to show you

that was not for you Sintpinty, you do not need to answer all and every post (especially if you have nothing to add)

Need to have most posts.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VimLover on Fri, 22 November 2019, 14:36:40

5) You've got to be insane to try a 40% keyboard


Any programmer that is pressing a fn key to get to [](){}; (btw that's a valid C++ anonymous func) is insane. TKL is the way to go so you don't have your mouse falling off your desk, but there is such a thing as diminishing returns.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Fri, 22 November 2019, 21:54:02

5) You've got to be insane to try a 40% keyboard


Any programmer that is pressing a fn key to get to [](){}; (btw that's a valid C++ anonymous func) is insane. TKL is the way to go so you don't have your mouse falling off your desk, but there is such a thing as diminishing returns.

40% is worse yet -- need a function layer to get numerical digits.  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Sat, 23 November 2019, 07:51:37

5) You've got to be insane to try a 40% keyboard


Any programmer that is pressing a fn key to get to [](){}; (btw that's a valid C++ anonymous func) is insane. TKL is the way to go so you don't have your mouse falling off your desk, but there is such a thing as diminishing returns.

40% is worse yet -- need a function layer to get numerical digits.  :eek:

EWWW!

*looks at 60% rubbery-ish keyboard*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevadu on Sat, 23 November 2019, 12:02:31
I feel like these super-small keyboards are more of a gimmick or novelty than anything.  Is anyone seriously doing work on them?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Sat, 23 November 2019, 14:30:28
I feel like these super-small keyboards are more of a gimmick or novelty than anything.  Is anyone seriously doing work on them?

There are arguments to be had that they are more ergonomic, depending on the layout and how you use them. Sysadmin I work with won't use anything over 60 after getting a 40%.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MMKB on Mon, 25 November 2019, 12:23:13

5) You've got to be insane to try a 40% keyboard


Any programmer that is pressing a fn key to get to [](){}; (btw that's a valid C++ anonymous func) is insane. TKL is the way to go so you don't have your mouse falling off your desk, but there is such a thing as diminishing returns.

Personal experience: 45% works for programming. I prob have spent 2 years on a JD45 at work. The hardest part is to remember where "$%^&" are. Later on I tried 40% but the lack of [{ and '" was too limiting for me.

(https://i.imgur.com/U1E5Kez.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Tue, 26 November 2019, 02:48:39
Personal experience: 45% works for programming. I prob have spent 2 years on a JD45 at work. The hardest part is to remember where "$%^&" are. Later on I tried 40% but the lack of [{ and '" was too limiting for me.


I honestly couldn't consider going less than TKL at work, and I'm happy on my full size AEK. Do you not use an IDE? switching my shortcuts to a smaller layout would be hell.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 26 November 2019, 08:31:54
Most peoples staunch devotion to larger keyboard layouts are not based on any absolute NEED for the extra keys, it's that they don't have the time or patience to learn new muscle memory, and they should present it that way more often.

There are a few legitimate needs for those layouts, but there are less than a few who actually need them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Tue, 26 November 2019, 08:59:12
Who gives a toss about absolute need?

I like full size as I spend a lot of my day resting my head in my hand while doing dev work, and having to use layers would suck for one handed shortcuts.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 26 November 2019, 09:38:07
Who gives a toss about absolute need?

I like full size as I spend a lot of my day resting my head in my hand while doing dev work, and having to use layers would suck for one handed shortcuts.

Good for you man, just make sure you mention that you like it and prefer it, rather than need it. And I'm sure layers would suck for your muscle memory, whereas it would be fine for someone with layer muscle memory.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 26 November 2019, 11:27:27
Who gives a toss about absolute need?

I like full size as I spend a lot of my day resting my head in my hand while doing dev work, and having to use layers would suck for one handed shortcuts.


Numpad not needed, arrow keys and number row needed
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 26 November 2019, 11:32:20
Who gives a toss about absolute need?

I like full size as I spend a lot of my day resting my head in my hand while doing dev work, and having to use layers would suck for one handed shortcuts.


Numpad not needed, arrow keys and number row needed

wanted*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ollir_ on Wed, 27 November 2019, 00:03:54
Most peoples staunch devotion to larger keyboard layouts are not based on any absolute NEED for the extra keys, it's that they don't have the time or patience to learn new muscle memory, and they should present it that way more often.

There are a few legitimate needs for those layouts, but there are less than a few who actually need them.

Since this is the unpopular opinions thread - full size just looks better.

Requesting for people to excuse their preferences as being lazy or reluctant to learn new things is not unpopular opinion, it's purely a d*ck move. But don't worry, I've already taken the time and patience to learn new muscle memory and doing it for a smaller layout hasn't changed my opinion: full-size layout doesn't actually have extra keys. The smaller ones are severely lacking some. This of course makes the users of those layouts jealous and they should present it that way more often.

There's absolutely no reason why I would get a smaller than I'd like keyboard on my desk just because it's the trend. I do have FC660C at work and I've had no trouble muscle memorizing that. So I don't think I'd have any trouble doing it for another layout. But it doesn't look as good as a full size AND let's be honest, using FN every time I want to press some of the F-keys or use Home/End etc. is stupid and not any more ergonomic than using a dedicated button almost as near.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MMKB on Wed, 27 November 2019, 00:13:29
Personal experience: 45% works for programming. I prob have spent 2 years on a JD45 at work. The hardest part is to remember where "$%^&" are. Later on I tried 40% but the lack of [{ and '" was too limiting for me.


I honestly couldn't consider going less than TKL at work, and I'm happy on my full size AEK. Do you not use an IDE? switching my shortcuts to a smaller layout would be hell.

I do use an IDE but since I’ve been mostly on a 60%, I already missed the F row shortcuts if that’s what you meant. I have been clicking on the UI which might be slow to some of you.  :) But that’s okay since the biggest programming bottleneck of mine has always been my brain.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 27 November 2019, 10:15:53
they don't have the time or patience to learn new muscle memory, and they should present it that way more often.
Requesting for people to excuse their preferences as being lazy or reluctant to learn new things is not unpopular opinion, it's purely a d*ck move.

So are you reading another comment, Or are you just that mad? lol

Haven't called anyone lazy, and being reluctant isn't an insult. If someone doesn't have the time or desire to learn something, then that's understandable and fine. But people who prefer full size keyboards seem to have a tendency to pop into threads that have nothing to do with them, and spout loudly about how they "could never use anything without a numpad", or they comment on pictures of smaller boards to say something unnecessary like "lol how do you get anything done?".

I requested only that people who very loudly proclaim they NEED fullsize, should instead usually say they prefer it. Or not really, it's just my opinion that it makes them look less like a tool.

using FN every time I want to press some of the F-keys or use Home/End etc. is stupid and not any more ergonomic than using a dedicated button almost as near.

It's stupid to you. Moving your FN key to somewhere more accessible is very easy. Moving it to a key under your thumb, or a key accessible to your pinky for instance can make it where you may not even have to leave home row for a lot of things, which has a good potential to reduce finger strain and improve ergonomics.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 27 November 2019, 11:49:27
they don't have the time or patience to learn new muscle memory, and they should present it that way more often.
Requesting for people to excuse their preferences as being lazy or reluctant to learn new things is not unpopular opinion, it's purely a d*ck move.

So are you reading another comment, Or are you just that mad? lol

Haven't called anyone lazy, and being reluctant isn't an insult. If someone doesn't have the time or desire to learn something, then that's understandable and fine. But people who prefer full size keyboards seem to have a tendency to pop into threads that have nothing to do with them, and spout loudly about how they "could never use anything without a numpad", or they comment on pictures of smaller boards to say something unnecessary like "lol how do you get anything done?".

I requested only that people who very loudly proclaim they NEED fullsize, should instead usually say they prefer it. Or not really, it's just my opinion that it makes them look less like a tool.

using FN every time I want to press some of the F-keys or use Home/End etc. is stupid and not any more ergonomic than using a dedicated button almost as near.

It's stupid to you. Moving your FN key to somewhere more accessible is very easy. Moving it to a key under your thumb, or a key accessible to your pinky for instance can make it where you may not even have to leave home row for a lot of things, which has a good potential to reduce finger strain and improve ergonomics.

AAGGH! The yellow in your text! It's hard to see on my low brightness.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 27 November 2019, 11:56:28
they don't have the time or patience to learn new muscle memory, and they should present it that way more often.
Requesting for people to excuse their preferences as being lazy or reluctant to learn new things is not unpopular opinion, it's purely a d*ck move.

So are you reading another comment, Or are you just that mad? lol

Haven't called anyone lazy, and being reluctant isn't an insult. If someone doesn't have the time or desire to learn something, then that's understandable and fine. But people who prefer full size keyboards seem to have a tendency to pop into threads that have nothing to do with them, and spout loudly about how they "could never use anything without a numpad", or they comment on pictures of smaller boards to say something unnecessary like "lol how do you get anything done?".

I requested only that people who very loudly proclaim they NEED fullsize, should instead usually say they prefer it. Or not really, it's just my opinion that it makes them look less like a tool.

using FN every time I want to press some of the F-keys or use Home/End etc. is stupid and not any more ergonomic than using a dedicated button almost as near.

It's stupid to you. Moving your FN key to somewhere more accessible is very easy. Moving it to a key under your thumb, or a key accessible to your pinky for instance can make it where you may not even have to leave home row for a lot of things, which has a good potential to reduce finger strain and improve ergonomics.

AAGGH! The yellow in your text! It's hard to see on my low brightness.

I love yellow :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 27 November 2019, 12:07:29
they don't have the time or patience to learn new muscle memory, and they should present it that way more often.
Requesting for people to excuse their preferences as being lazy or reluctant to learn new things is not unpopular opinion, it's purely a d*ck move.

So are you reading another comment, Or are you just that mad? lol

Haven't called anyone lazy, and being reluctant isn't an insult. If someone doesn't have the time or desire to learn something, then that's understandable and fine. But people who prefer full size keyboards seem to have a tendency to pop into threads that have nothing to do with them, and spout loudly about how they "could never use anything without a numpad", or they comment on pictures of smaller boards to say something unnecessary like "lol how do you get anything done?".

I requested only that people who very loudly proclaim they NEED fullsize, should instead usually say they prefer it. Or not really, it's just my opinion that it makes them look less like a tool.

using FN every time I want to press some of the F-keys or use Home/End etc. is stupid and not any more ergonomic than using a dedicated button almost as near.

It's stupid to you. Moving your FN key to somewhere more accessible is very easy. Moving it to a key under your thumb, or a key accessible to your pinky for instance can make it where you may not even have to leave home row for a lot of things, which has a good potential to reduce finger strain and improve ergonomics.

AAGGH! The yellow in your text! It's hard to see on my low brightness.

I love yellow :)

>_<
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Thu, 05 December 2019, 11:34:13
I prefer keysets with sublegends instead of normal ones, like Cyrillic or Hiragana. Don't know why, I just do.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Fri, 06 December 2019, 02:30:35
I prefer keysets with sublegends instead of normal ones, like Cyrillic or Hiragana. Don't know why, I just do.
well if it adds a color it is even better, and otherwise it makes an otherwise empty part of the key more purposeful (or at least so it would look like to an untrained eye)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Fri, 06 December 2019, 04:39:32
I prefer keysets with sublegends instead of normal ones, like Cyrillic or Hiragana. Don't know why, I just do.
 
 
I just realized that now, after ordering a very nice keyset, that I'm probably not going to enjoy it much since I won't be looking at it most of the time.. What's wrong with me?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 06 December 2019, 11:14:53
Although i enjoy DSA and GMK caps very much i am starting to appreciate OEM a lot more than i should. OEM allows me to get deep in the fingers, type fast and BOTTOM OUT !!!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mkkeyboardvigilante on Sat, 07 December 2019, 17:37:25
If Corsair's spacebar was actually the same size as other mechanical keyboards, I would be more open to owning one of them. And perhaps if they were more open to having other switches besides Cherry in their product, that would also be another plus despite all the talk I've heard about how their software can be difficult to work with. I'm glad companies like Razer have been stepping up, even though I have no need for any of their keyboards at the moment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 10 December 2019, 07:12:04
If Corsair's spacebar was actually the same size as other mechanical keyboards, I would be more open to owning one of them. And perhaps if they were more open to having other switches besides Cherry in their product, that would also be another plus despite all the talk I've heard about how their software can be difficult to work with. I'm glad companies like Razer have been stepping up, even though I have no need for any of their keyboards at the moment.

This is far from an unpopular opinion. Most of us agree with this, since if it had a standard bottom row we could change most everything else on the boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 10 December 2019, 08:31:23
AAGGH! The yellow in your text! It's hard to see on my low brightness.
Or just with the light forum theme.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pyotr on Wed, 11 December 2019, 04:24:30
@Grim Fandango Sorry I'm a bit late to this party and I didn't think I had an unpopular keyboard opinion but you've just inspired me!

Nobody should ever eat food, even sandwiches, near their keyboard and they certainly shouldn't be typing while eating.

Caveat: It might be permissible if it's just a standard keyboard at work.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Wed, 11 December 2019, 04:51:33
@Grim Fandango Sorry I'm a bit late to this party and I didn't think I had an unpopular keyboard opinion but you've just inspired me!

Nobody should ever eat food, even sandwiches, near their keyboard and they certainly shouldn't be typing while eating.

Caveat: It might be permissible if it's just a standard keyboard at work.
I just cover it with a cloth.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 11 December 2019, 07:15:47
If Corsair's spacebar was actually the same size as other mechanical keyboards, I would be more open to owning one of them. And perhaps if they were more open to having other switches besides Cherry in their product, that would also be another plus despite all the talk I've heard about how their software can be difficult to work with. I'm glad companies like Razer have been stepping up, even though I have no need for any of their keyboards at the moment.

Dammit corsair give us the standard bottom row
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 11 December 2019, 08:50:47
Filcos feel and sound better than almost all customs/kustoms, fight me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Wed, 11 December 2019, 15:19:24
I like alps in an aluminium cnc case with metal plate. I don't see what the fuss is about plastic sounding better.

Plastic is louder, it's definitely a bit muted in metal, but I like the sturdiness of it, and it's a tad more sociable to use at work.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 11 December 2019, 17:36:36
Filcos feel and sound better than almost all customs/kustoms, fight me.

true
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Thu, 12 December 2019, 02:00:35
Filcos feel and sound better than almost all customs/kustoms, fight me.
 
 
The only people who say stuff like this unironically are people who bought a Filco before realizing how much better other keyboards in the market and same price range can be :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bananasplit_00 on Thu, 12 December 2019, 03:10:31
Silent switches are plain better
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vegs on Thu, 12 December 2019, 05:04:21
Filcos feel and sound better than almost all customs/kustoms, fight me.
Shameless plug
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 12 December 2019, 07:38:23
Filcos feel and sound better than almost all customs/kustoms, fight me.
 
 
The only people who say stuff like this unironically are people who bought a Filco before realizing how much better other keyboards in the market and same price range can be :)

Bought my filco after owning OTD, TGR, TX, and Matrix  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 12 December 2019, 07:44:25
Nobody should ever eat food, even sandwiches, near their keyboard and they certainly shouldn't be typing while eating.
There is a special place in hell for people who eat shrimps and aioli at their desks at work in a shared office and leave the leftovers for a few hours...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Thu, 12 December 2019, 08:22:07
Filcos feel and sound better than almost all customs/kustoms, fight me.
 
 
The only people who say stuff like this unironically are people who bought a Filco before realizing how much better other keyboards in the market and same price range can be :)

Bought my filco after owning OTD, TGR, TX, and Matrix  :-*
 
 
Of course, that's why you're making amusing intentionally facetious statements in Comic Sans :)) 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 12 December 2019, 08:51:24
Filcos feel and sound better than almost all customs/kustoms, fight me.
 
 
The only people who say stuff like this unironically are people who bought a Filco before realizing how much better other keyboards in the market and same price range can be :)

Bought my filco after owning OTD, TGR, TX, and Matrix  :-*
 
 
Of course, that's why you're making amusing intentionally facetious statements in Comic Sans :))

I am not, this was legitimately a non-ironic opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Thu, 12 December 2019, 10:36:28
Customs > Filco
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Prelim on Thu, 12 December 2019, 12:26:30
Gateron "special edition" switches are just the same shít as KS-3/KS-8/KS-9
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Thu, 12 December 2019, 13:04:41
Gateron "special edition" switches are just the same shít as KS-3/KS-8/KS-9

That's not an opinion. They actually are different because they use different kinds of plastic.
But I see what you mean. Not much difference between them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 12 December 2019, 13:45:41
Customs > Filco

Aren't you the one who asked for opinions on the feel of a switch that hasn't been released yet?

:^)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VimLover on Thu, 12 December 2019, 15:41:40
Who gives a toss about absolute need?

I like full size as I spend a lot of my day resting my head in my hand while doing dev work, and having to use layers would suck for one handed shortcuts.

I can operate all of the keys in the HHKB fn layer one handed FYI. I often use the arrow keys while using my mouse. I'm left handed though. With a fully programmable keyboard either via the Hasu controller or with the new Hybrid series you can just set it up so that all the layer keys are on one side.

Also, it might be because I play wow where I basically redo keymaps for 12 different classes every 3 months, but I find picking up new layouts really easy. One thing that I think is helpful is to get blank keycaps which forces you to stop thinking of a key as "the a key". It's just another button and it can be whatever you want it to be.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Thu, 12 December 2019, 16:32:36
Customs > Filco

Aren't you the one who asked for opinions on the feel of a switch that hasn't been released yet?

:^)

Not opinions, exactly. More like questioning if they should be as hyped as they are now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tex_live_utility on Thu, 12 December 2019, 16:43:36
Gateron "special edition" switches are just the same shít as KS-3/KS-8/KS-9

That's not an opinion. They actually are different because they use different kinds of plastic.
But I see what you mean. Not much difference between them.

What special editions are we talking about?

Tangerine, Matcha, etc. are all recolors of the basic clear/red/yellow/black linears.

Inks are different plastic, more like Tealios than the standard linears.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Fri, 13 December 2019, 01:54:40
Filcos feel and sound better than almost all customs/kustoms, fight me.
 
 
The only people who say stuff like this unironically are people who bought a Filco before realizing how much better other keyboards in the market and same price range can be :)

Bought my filco after owning OTD, TGR, TX, and Matrix  :-*
 
 
Of course, that's why you're making amusing intentionally facetious statements in Comic Sans :))

I am not, this was legitimately a non-ironic opinion.
 
 
Oh.. well, then I can only question your nervous system. Perhaps your sense of touch was programmed backwards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 13 December 2019, 02:12:51
I want a filco again too
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Fri, 13 December 2019, 02:31:17
I'm not going to weigh in on the Filco thing right now, except to say that mine has proven exceptionally durable. Survived a lack-of-maintenance that would have killed many lesser keyboards. Running 100% now.

Also, someone replaced all their Filco switches with Holy Pandas. I can imagine _that_ Filco feeling and sounding better than most customs!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 13 December 2019, 07:19:05
Filcos feel and sound better than almost all customs/kustoms, fight me.
 
 
The only people who say stuff like this unironically are people who bought a Filco before realizing how much better other keyboards in the market and same price range can be :)

Bought my filco after owning OTD, TGR, TX, and Matrix  :-*
 
 
Of course, that's why you're making amusing intentionally facetious statements in Comic Sans :))

I am not, this was legitimately a non-ironic opinion.
 
 
Oh.. well, then I can only question your nervous system. Perhaps your sense of touch was programmed backwards.

My opinion is objectively the best opinion, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 13 December 2019, 07:21:45
I want a filco again too

Do it. Now is the time. (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/filco/kobo.php?frame_id=15)


(https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/filco/images/kobo/NewWoodBlue/14.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Fri, 13 December 2019, 08:36:30
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: audiosl4ve on Fri, 13 December 2019, 08:56:19
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

name?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 13 December 2019, 09:36:37
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

Combination of sound and feel just make it great for me. Silent switches with a good PBT keyset make it sound and feel best for me personally.

Only thing that would improve it for me personally, would be cherry stabs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: romevi on Fri, 13 December 2019, 10:42:08
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

This:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 13 December 2019, 10:52:47
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

This:

:ygormad:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 13 December 2019, 11:19:45
If Corsair's spacebar was actually the same size as other mechanical keyboards, I would be more open to owning one of them. And perhaps if they were more open to having other switches besides Cherry in their product, that would also be another plus despite all the talk I've heard about how their software can be difficult to work with. I'm glad companies like Razer have been stepping up, even though I have no need for any of their keyboards at the moment.

I didn't have a choice about what brand i would get, my grandparents got that keyboard for me. The roughhouse spacebar actually feels great, however i might be screwed if the stablizer breaks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 13 December 2019, 11:28:35
If Corsair's spacebar was actually the same size as other mechanical keyboards, I would be more open to owning one of them. And perhaps if they were more open to having other switches besides Cherry in their product, that would also be another plus despite all the talk I've heard about how their software can be difficult to work with. I'm glad companies like Razer have been stepping up, even though I have no need for any of their keyboards at the moment.

I didn't have a choice about what brand i would get, my grandparents got that keyboard for me. The roughhouse spacebar actually feels great, however i might be screwed if the stablizer breaks.

This is the second time you've replied to this. You ok bud?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mkkeyboardvigilante on Fri, 13 December 2019, 11:59:15
I get notifications about the replies that I get to posts in these threads, and I had no idea that one opinion would lead to that. Lol.

Here's another one now that I'm at it.

On Topre, I thought I'd like the heavier switches more, and I do for the most part, but in all my time that I've used any of my Topre boards, my go-to has always been the variable weight board I have even though I kept having thoughts about selling it over and over. 

I guess maybe it's also because I feel that heavier switches have their own place depending on what you feel like doing for that day. I'm more of a touch typist, but I am flexible with the keyboards I can use and keycaps as long as they are good quality PBT.

Somehow, I can still get a lot of tactility and not sacrifice typing speed and still comes in handy at night when I don't wanna wake everyone up in the apartment complex.

To be fair, on all the keyboards I have, I can type up to 105-110 WPM on my best days and on average 90-97 when I'm being more careful.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Fri, 13 December 2019, 18:04:38
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 13 December 2019, 20:55:39
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Fri, 13 December 2019, 22:03:32
Depends which ones you've tried, and your previous experience with switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Sat, 14 December 2019, 00:48:38
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
 
 
From what I've heard, it's very hard to beat ALPS for clicky switches. Were you using clicky or linear? 

Quote from: DALExSNAIL link=topic=65341.msg2843902#msg2843902 date=1576292139
Alps were a huge letdown for me
[/quote
 

The most useful reply, posting the exact opposite of someone else's opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Sat, 14 December 2019, 00:57:09
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
 
 
From what I've heard, it's very hard to beat ALPS for clicky switches. Were you using clicky or linear? 

Alps were a huge letdown for me


The most useful reply, posting the exact opposite of someone else's opinion.

It's an opinion thread, so of course! I've used NoS creams and whites, and recently have tried Matias quiet clicks and their silent linears. Just not a fan of the sound, or the feel of any I've tried. They had a pretty big hype around them, so my expectations were high, hence the let down.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Sat, 14 December 2019, 01:06:58
Depends which ones you've tried, and your previous experience with switches.

I've tried:
MX Silent reds
MX Reds
MX Browns
Vint blacks
Nixies
Vint Browns
MX Blues
MX Clears
Ergo clears
Most all gaterons at some point
Zealios, gen/run 2 and like 4 I think?
MX greens
Newest iterations of MX blacks that had the retooling
Buckling spring
Topre Variable/45g/55g
Obviously rubber domes

Alps I've had:
NoS whites
NoS Creams
Matias Quiet Clicks
Matias Linears

Not claiming they are bad, because they aren't, but alps heads talk about ALPS like they're the second coming of jesus, so the letdown happened.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sat, 14 December 2019, 02:13:23
There's not much point in alps unless they're complicated pine alps, not bamboo or simplified, and they're in good condition.

I have some pine boards and a matias, they're ok, but they have flaws compared to my filco, I can understand why you'd prefer the filco for those. Just not my better condition pine alps boards.


From what I've heard, it's very hard to beat ALPS for clicky switches. Were you using clicky or linear? 

I have SKCM orange, salmon and blue boards and my preference is in that order. I'm not interested in linear switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Sat, 14 December 2019, 03:26:18
I have SKCM orange, salmon and blue boards and my preference is in that order. I'm not interested in linear switches.
   

Didn't ask what you were interested in, I asked what you were using. Good to know though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sat, 14 December 2019, 04:07:23
I have SKCM orange, salmon and blue boards and my preference is in that order. I'm not interested in linear switches.
   

Didn't ask what you were interested in, I asked what you were using. Good to know though.

This is a forum, people say things that they're not explicitly asked. Can we lose the attitude?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fxm.eee on Sat, 14 December 2019, 04:55:06
I don't like RGB for gaming Keebs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Sat, 14 December 2019, 08:44:14
I have SKCM orange, salmon and blue boards and my preference is in that order. I'm not interested in linear switches.
   

Didn't ask what you were interested in, I asked what you were using. Good to know though.

This is a forum, people say things that they're not explicitly asked. Can we lose the attitude?

Have you read any of his other posts?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Sun, 15 December 2019, 07:53:38
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. bad. I prefer MX Browns over reds
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 16 December 2019, 13:49:47

So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. bad. I prefer MX Browns over reds

If they were lubed browns, maybe. I hate how scratchy they are, and I hate the weighting even more. You can't even put your fingers on it before they actuate. Also, they hurt my fingers with the harshness of the bottom out. I guess this is a popular opinion, though :)

My unpopular opinion: Heavy tactile > medium tactile. Sure, they tire out your hands, but ARE THOSE THINGS TACTILE or WHAT????  :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 16 December 2019, 15:05:13
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sat, 04 January 2020, 11:55:27
I don't care about stabiliser rattle.

I only recently tried lubing my costar stabs, can't say I could be bothered to do it again.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Sat, 04 January 2020, 14:35:33
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mkkeyboardvigilante on Sat, 04 January 2020, 15:07:36
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.
Very interesting that you're saying this because that has been a similar experience I've had. Sometimes, I sort of regret not getting one of those clickier, more tactile boards, and then other days, I come to really appreciate linears more and more despite how I feel sometimes I still tend to make more typos here and there on them. It just depends on what I'm in the mood to type on and stuff, but I really do like that sort of sound that comes out of many of the linear switches out there combined with the right kinds of keycaps. It's a dream to type on then.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Sat, 04 January 2020, 20:02:47
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.

Will hate linears
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Sat, 04 January 2020, 20:12:43
Truthfully my tastes have commonalities, but who knows, perhaps in time I'll find a linear switch I'll like, though that certainly hasn't happened yet.

Tactility with no click also still gets no clicks from me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Sun, 05 January 2020, 02:47:59
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.

Will hate linears

What did he mean by this :thinking: :spink:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Mon, 06 January 2020, 06:07:17
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.

Will hate linears

What did he mean by this :thinking: :spink:

I will always hate linears 🤷🏻‍♀️
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 06 January 2020, 06:07:57
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.

Will hate linears

What did he mean by this :thinking: :spink:

I will always hate linears
Can't see the future, lad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: snozberries on Mon, 06 January 2020, 09:20:03
I hate dislike the layout on HHKB. Love how they type, but man...could not do it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 06 January 2020, 09:21:17
I hate the layout on HHKB. Love how they type, but man...could not do it.

How much time have you spent with it?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: snozberries on Mon, 06 January 2020, 09:50:16
I hate the layout on HHKB. Love how they type, but man...could not do it.

How much time have you spent with it?

Hate was probably a bit strong...but I gave it a chance for a couple months. I'm sure I could learn to love it, but I want to go back to a FC660C. Need to post more so I can get in the classifieds.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 06 January 2020, 11:48:29
I hate the layout on HHKB. Love how they type, but man...could not do it.

How much time have you spent with it?

Hate was probably a bit strong...but I gave it a chance for a couple months. I'm sure I could learn to love it, but I want to go back to a FC660C. Need to post more so I can get in the classifieds.

I mean that's fair. It's a polarizing layout, just wanted to check if it was a week or something haha.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mkkeyboardvigilante on Mon, 06 January 2020, 17:29:15
Yeah it took me a while to get used to it, but once I really got the hang of using the Fn key, especially on OS X, it seemed more intuitive there for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 06 January 2020, 19:24:01
Yeah it took me a while to get used to it, but once I really got the hang of using the Fn key, especially on OS X, it seemed more intuitive there for me.

The Fn placement on HHKB is brilliant imho. It was almost second nature for my pinky before I even got used to the layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yicaoyimu on Mon, 06 January 2020, 19:27:39
Cherry switches are actually pretty good. It's reasonably priced and doesn't have any quality issues (at least I haven't heard any). What other good linear options are there other than vintage black? Gateron inks have loose leaf. Gateron don't fit 7035 mill-max socket unless you rotate the socket to a specific angle. Good Geteron linears are all too expensive. Cherry is still a good choice for high end build.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 06 January 2020, 19:32:41
Cherry switches are actually pretty good. It's reasonably priced and doesn't have any quality issues (at least I haven't heard any). What other good linear options are there other than vintage black? Gateron inks have loose leaf. Gateron don't fit 7035 mill-max socket unless you rotate the socket to a specific angle. Good Geteron linears are all too expensive. Cherry is still a good choice for high end build.

OG Gateron stems in old stock cherry housing a have had the best results for me sound and feel wise for linear. Those old milky gats that needed films to secure the top the right way.

Can still find those a good bit cheaper than new cherry.

Although, camping ebay for a decent condition 1800 board with hella shiny caps, and super worn in stems is more fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: actualglacier on Tue, 07 January 2020, 03:36:28
oh boy I've got some spicy ones today.

- Most people who bash MX browns are newbies who buy into the trend that more tactile = better.

- Alps tactiles are alright at best. They are, for the most part, fatiguing and incredibly overrated, and there's nothing wrong with the way MX based switches generate tactility.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vegs on Tue, 07 January 2020, 03:40:23
- Most people who bash MX browns are newbies who buy into the trend that more tactile = better.
Only good switches are $5/ea frankenswitches /s

100% agree, people bash browns because they are videly available, cheap switches - and a lot of "newbies" have these in their beginner boards. Still a great switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Tue, 07 January 2020, 06:56:32
oh boy I've got some spicy ones today.

- Most people who bash MX browns are newbies who buy into the trend that more tactile = better.
I'd say the exact opposite :p . The only people who like MX browns are newbies who haven't tried anything better :p .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 07 January 2020, 10:36:51
oh boy I've got some spicy ones today.

- Most people who bash MX browns are newbies who buy into the trend that more tactile = better.
I'd say the exact opposite :p . The only people who like MX browns are newbies who haven't tried anything better :p .

I'm definitely with Chyros on that one. I have been using mechanicals for years. I can't say that I have tried a ton of switch types, but I haven't encountered anything as bad as Cherry MX Brown (yet, I know they exist). It is difficult to discern any bump at all, and most of that bump is just increased scratchiness. My tactile alps experience is limited to a few test presses on an old recycling save board or two, and the experience was incomparably better. Tactile Kailh Box switches don't seem fantastic, but at least they're not scratchy, and there's definitely a discernible bump. I'm far from a tactile lover though.

I wonder if those who don't like clicky alps had really, really dirty boards. I replaced my model F AT at work with a Leading Edge DC-2014 once I tried the switches.

Cherry switches are actually pretty good. It's reasonably priced and doesn't have any quality issues (at least I haven't heard any). What other good linear options are there other than vintage black? Gateron inks have loose leaf. Gateron don't fit 7035 mill-max socket unless you rotate the socket to a specific angle. Good Geteron linears are all too expensive. Cherry is still a good choice for high end build.

I haven't put them in a board, but the Kailh Box linears seem pretty nice to me. I hear good things about Kailh Cream as well. Cherry MX Red is good enough for me, for gaming purposes.

My unpopular opinions:

"Vintage" Cherry MX is no better (in aggregate) than any other Cherry MX, other than maybe just the fact that they're more likely to basically be polished by years of heavy use. Maybe I'll be swayed on this some day, but I find it unlikely.

Cherry MX, in general, is the Honda Civic/Toyota Camry of mechanical keyboards today. They're not fantastic, but they're in no way substandard in any categories other than subjective feel/sound preference (that even goes for browns).

(This one might start a lynch mob) The IBM Model M is an inherently stupid and fragile design (plastic rivets) that doesn't seem to feel much better to me than average, at its best, and worse than Cherry MX at its worst. Before you come to burn down my house, I absolutely love the model F.

Windows keys (when running Windows) are almost indispensable when it comes to convenience and time savings, and buttons that disable them when gaming are completely unnecessary. I've never accidentally hit the Windows key before.

Corsair (at least the K65 and K70 variant boards) makes robust, aesthetically-pleasing keyboards, in spite of their non-standard key caps (And maybe some batches of poorly made caps? All of mine have held up for years worth of heavy use.)

There may be more. I can't think of them at the moment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 07 January 2020, 10:52:58
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 07 January 2020, 11:07:02
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 07 January 2020, 11:34:52
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Tue, 07 January 2020, 11:54:51
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. I’ve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and I’m in no way a heavy handed typist.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Tue, 07 January 2020, 11:57:39
Layout standards are a Good Thing. Alternate layouts are an unnecessary blight on the custom keycap landscape.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:04:51
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. I’ve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and I’m in no way a heavy handed typist.

I agree with this entirely. Blue alps feel much lighter than your average heavy switch.

I understand all of that, I just know that there are other minimally tactile switches available that aren't scratchy from the factory. You do you though, it is all subjective. I'm a clicky guy.

I also agree with sticking to keyboard layouts. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In the 80s, yes, not anymore.

I wouldn't mind maybe trying to use browns until they wear in if that would actually make them feel better. I got a used Rosewill board with them for very, very cheap mostly just to be able to try the switch type. I think most of the caps are shiny from wear, so you would think that would mean that they're worn in, but maybe not.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:05:16
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. I’ve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and I’m in no way a heavy handed typist.

I agree with this entirely. Blue alps feel much lighter than your average heavy switch.

I understand all of that, I just know that there are other minimally tactile switches available that aren't scratchy from the factory. You do you though, it is all subjective. I'm a clicky guy.

I also agree with sticking to keyboard layouts. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In the 80s, yes, not anymore.

I wouldn't mind maybe trying to use browns until they wear in if that would actually make them feel better. I got a used Rosewill board with them for very, very cheap mostly just to be able to try the switch type. I think most of the caps are shiny from wear, so you would think that would mean that they're worn in, but maybe not.

If alps feel more lighter than a heavy switch thats really cool! i might try that out
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: actualglacier on Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:10:17
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:38:46
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
I genuinely know linear switches that are more tactile than MX Brown.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:41:29
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. I’ve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and I’m in no way a heavy handed typist.

I've tried NOS alps (sealed in original packaging board with whites) as well as very clean used alps in the past, all very stiff for me personally. Maybe if I somehow won the lottery necessary to be graced with an alps switch that was acceptable to "the enlightened" here I'd like them. I understand that Matias isn't super well regarded in the alps world, but even their "super light" linears feel stiffer than reds, which are what I assume to be the MX comparison.

How fatiguing a switch is, is very dependent on the user though. The design of alps tactile switches is inherently fatiguing for someone like me, in a very similar way that rubberdomes/topre are.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: appaboy on Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:43:20
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
I genuinely know linear switches that are more tactile than MX Brown.

chyros moment
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:45:22
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. I’ve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and I’m in no way a heavy handed typist.

I agree with this entirely. Blue alps feel much lighter than your average heavy switch.

I understand all of that, I just know that there are other minimally tactile switches available that aren't scratchy from the factory. You do you though, it is all subjective. I'm a clicky guy.

I also agree with sticking to keyboard layouts. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In the 80s, yes, not anymore.

I wouldn't mind maybe trying to use browns until they wear in if that would actually make them feel better. I got a used Rosewill board with them for very, very cheap mostly just to be able to try the switch type. I think most of the caps are shiny from wear, so you would think that would mean that they're worn in, but maybe not.

If alps feel more lighter than a heavy switch thats really cool! i might try that out

I would definitely recommend that you do. Alps switches are very susceptible to dirt/dust though, so not all of these ancient boards feel as they should.

IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. I’ve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and I’m in no way a heavy handed typist.

I agree with this entirely. Blue alps feel much lighter than your average heavy switch.

I understand all of that, I just know that there are other minimally tactile switches available that aren't scratchy from the factory. You do you though, it is all subjective. I'm a clicky guy.

I also agree with sticking to keyboard layouts. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In the 80s, yes, not anymore.

I wouldn't mind maybe trying to use browns until they wear in if that would actually make them feel better. I got a used Rosewill board with them for very, very cheap mostly just to be able to try the switch type. I think most of the caps are shiny from wear, so you would think that would mean that they're worn in, but maybe not.

If alps feel more lighter than a heavy switch thats really cool! i might try that out

It appears that you're not really reading the comments of those that dislike MX Browns. It isn't just an issue of tactility, it is the combination of that tactility being minuscule and also extremely scratchy, to the point that the tactility seems to be limited to just an increase in scratchiness as the key descends. When typing at a normal speed, the scratchiness is literally all I feel, no bump at all. There are very lightly tactile switches available that are very smooth by comparison. Maybe they're not terrible with lube, but I personally wouldn't ever really advocate for a switch that requires modification when new from the factory. I would certainly be curious to see how they felt though. I doubt I'll ever bother to open mine to find out, but maybe.

IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. I’ve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and I’m in no way a heavy handed typist.

I've tried NOS alps (sealed in original packaging board with whites) as well as very clean used alps in the past, all very stiff for me personally. Maybe if I somehow won the lottery necessary to be graced with an alps switch that was acceptable to "the enlightened" here I'd like them. I understand that Matias isn't super well regarded in the alps world, but even their "super light" linears feel stiffer than reds, which are what I assume to be the MX comparison.

How fatiguing a switch is, is very dependent on the user though. The design of alps tactile switches is inherently fatiguing for someone like me, in a very similar way that rubberdomes/topre are.


Blue alps seemed stiff to me at first as well (I was using mostly Cherry Blue and Capacitive BS at the time), but also fantastic.  I wouldn't even put their tactility as their greatest feature, more so how rounded that tactility is instead of sharp, and the almost imperceptible upstroke. It all feels more refined than anything else I have ever tried. Box navies seem more tactile to me, yet blue alps and capacitive BS feel better overall.

I think you just need to use some heavy switches a few days to become more accustomed to something heavier, if you really wanted to. Cherry MX Red feels almost like there's no spring at all to me now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:57:29
But I personally wouldn't ever really advocate for a switch that requires modification when new from the factory.

That's all well and good, but the majority of people in this hobby mod their switches, no matter how nice they are stock.

Browns don't need to be modded, they need to be used for a few months to break in because of bad tooling. Old browns are better because they were produced when the tooling was new, but the switch was not produced outside of specialty boards and random compaqs during that time, so they're hard to find. Vint blacks are talked about and praised a lot because they're everywhere. But if browns were more readily available when the tooling was new, I'm almost positive they would be thought of in the same "They're scratchy now, but the vints feel great" way.

I'm not sure if the tooling for browns was updated with their linears that recently got updated, but I imagine not. Someone feel free to clue me in if they were though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:03:11
I think you just need to use some heavy switches a few days to become more accustomed to something heavier, if you really wanted to. Cherry MX Red feels almost like there's no spring at all to me now.

I only used 72g or 78g when I first joined the hobby. I've used heavy weighted switches for extended periods of time, but as I've improved my typing, I've preferred lighter switches. Not to mention my fingers and wrists are on the verge of RSI. I've had to swap to more ergonomic options recently in my boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:10:11
But I personally wouldn't ever really advocate for a switch that requires modification when new from the factory.

That's all well and good, but the majority of people in this hobby mod their switches, no matter how nice they are stock.

Browns don't need to be modded, they need to be used for a few months to break in because of bad tooling. Old browns are better because they were produced when the tooling was new, but the switch was not produced outside of specialty boards and random compaqs during that time, so they're hard to find. Vint blacks are talked about and praised a lot because they're everywhere. But if browns were more readily available when the tooling was new, I'm almost positive they would be thought of in the same "They're scratchy now, but the vints feel great" way.

I'm not sure if the tooling for browns was updated with their linears that recently got updated, but I imagine not. Someone feel free to clue me in if they were though.

I also wouldn't, personally, advocate for switches that require breaking in when new from the factory. Modding for a very specific feel you can't get otherwise, of course, makes perfect sense to me. I've repeatedly thought about modified clickbars and spring weights to make Box Jades or Navies more of an intermediate weight, with much less of a tactile upstroke (more similar to alps), though I haven't tried anything yet. I don't have a massive sample size, but Cherry MX feels like Cherry MX to me, old or new. They've apparently been retooled many times since the "Vintage black" days.

You do what you have to do, man. I'm just making the point that there are very good reasons that most people do not like Cherry MX Brown. Nobody is wrong for liking them. Have you tried any of the Kailh Box tactiles?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: actualglacier on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:13:41
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
I genuinely know linear switches that are more tactile than MX Brown.

chyros moment

chyros moment
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:14:28
I was going to write a big post about this when I was typing on an MX Brown keyboard for months, but I'll give you an abbreviated version:

MX Browns are a 'chill' switch. They are meant to be linears with a barely-noticeable bump.

They are a 'subconscious' switch. For touch typists, they give just enough subconscious feedback to indicate that a key has been pressed. That way, the typist can continue on an ergonomic low-tactility, low-weight switch without thinking about the switch at all.

They are meant to get out of your way. To be invisible. You don't type on MX Browns one character at-a-time. You type one-word-at-a time, one sentence at-a-time. You just imagine the word, and it appears on your screen. You don't think about typing.

It was clearly meant to be a business-like switch that isn't part of your conscious typing experience. The individual switch-feel is terrible, especially on new Browns. But you don't even feel this complete process if you type a full sentence. If you're a touch-typist and a light-typist, you don't even bottom-out on Browns, so it's just subconscious-activation directly to the next letter, with hardly any feel in-between.

Now, there are a lot of switch 'enthusiasts' here, and on Reddit. We want the best switch 'feel.' For some people, the typing is an end-in-itself. This is not who MX Brown is designed for. It's designed for average Joes and Janes who are entering spreadsheet data, typing Microsoft Office reports, gaming, and transcribing. They aren't looking for the optimum or 'premium' switch-feel, just something that works.

This is why MX Browns are unpopular in enthusiast communities, but are popular in the larger typing world. The end users are looking for different things.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:20:31
I typed on MX brown for years, and I can't say I hated it, but it was utterly forgettable once I knew better.

I don't care about typing speed, just whether I find the experience of using them pleasing and my error rate is low. While using MX brown I probably went weeks without even slightly thinking about my keyboard, I just used it. I used a mechanical keyboard because as I'd become accustomed to it rubber dome boards suddenly felt like utter poop. Since I switched to ALPS, pretty much every time I sit down to use the thing I have a moment of contemplative satisfaction at how much I like typing on it and since getting used to that as part of my normal working day I refuse to compromise on it.

That's why MX Brown sucks, it's not that bad, it's just so utterly bland.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:20:40
But I personally wouldn't ever really advocate for a switch that requires modification when new from the factory.

That's all well and good, but the majority of people in this hobby mod their switches, no matter how nice they are stock.

Browns don't need to be modded, they need to be used for a few months to break in because of bad tooling. Old browns are better because they were produced when the tooling was new, but the switch was not produced outside of specialty boards and random compaqs during that time, so they're hard to find. Vint blacks are talked about and praised a lot because they're everywhere. But if browns were more readily available when the tooling was new, I'm almost positive they would be thought of in the same "They're scratchy now, but the vints feel great" way.

I'm not sure if the tooling for browns was updated with their linears that recently got updated, but I imagine not. Someone feel free to clue me in if they were though.
My problem with MX brown is as follows. First, as Maledicted mentioned, MX browns have tactility that's on par with their scratchiness and therefore hard to detect. This is the most outwardly noticeable symptom, though not the root cause, which is where my problem with them lies.

This I will outline by following up on your point; the vintage MX browns I reviewed (in the original model of keyboard they were designed for, actually) were not, in my opinion, able to adequately or even noticeably address the issue mentioned above, although according to your theory, it should. However, the way I see it, the reason for their lacklustre tactility is not bad tooling; in my opinion, the whole design of tactile MX switches is not physically capable of generating a tactility that will NOT feel like scratchiness. The notch they use will always generate a wave-like, weak tactility, rather than a true tactile drop. It's not just MX brown, it's EVERY MX-type tactile switch. Lubrication will only make this worse, and no amount of spring swapping or other modding will ever fix this inherent issue. THAT is why I dislike tactile MX switches so much.

Of course, to each their own, but to me someone who likes tactile switches to have no tactility is as bizarre as someone who likes their switches to be as scratchy as possible, and saying it was never meant to be tactile in a noticeable way is saying it was designed to fail xD .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:27:35
But I personally wouldn't ever really advocate for a switch that requires modification when new from the factory.

That's all well and good, but the majority of people in this hobby mod their switches, no matter how nice they are stock.

Browns don't need to be modded, they need to be used for a few months to break in because of bad tooling. Old browns are better because they were produced when the tooling was new, but the switch was not produced outside of specialty boards and random compaqs during that time, so they're hard to find. Vint blacks are talked about and praised a lot because they're everywhere. But if browns were more readily available when the tooling was new, I'm almost positive they would be thought of in the same "They're scratchy now, but the vints feel great" way.

I'm not sure if the tooling for browns was updated with their linears that recently got updated, but I imagine not. Someone feel free to clue me in if they were though.

I also wouldn't, personally, advocate for switches that require breaking in when new from the factory. Modding for a very specific feel you can't get otherwise, of course, makes perfect sense to me. I've repeatedly thought about modified clickbars and spring weights to make Box Jades or Navies more of an intermediate weight, with much less of a tactile upstroke (more similar to alps), though I haven't tried anything yet. I don't have a massive sample size, but Cherry MX feels like Cherry MX to me, old or new. They've apparently been retooled many times since the "Vintage black" days.

You do what you have to do, man. I'm just making the point that there are very good reasons that most people do not like Cherry MX Brown. Nobody is wrong for liking them. Have you tried any of the Kailh Box tactiles?

It's just a meme in the community to hate browns, so I feel a need to defend them.

Break in is a real thing with a lot of good switches, silents especially I've found. It's plastic rubbing plastic which in most cases isn't super smooth. They can be smooth off the rip for sure, but I don't fault a switch for needing a break in period personally.

I've tried the boxes you're talking about, but only individually. I was cautious to use them at the time because of the stem issues they were having. But honestly, I don't like the look of them so I haven't had the desire to grab any personally.

I've tried a lot of switches over time, and I personally think vintage is a thing, even if it is just really worn in stems. The older housings even make new stems feel smoother in my experience.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:37:31
As for retooling, I have pre-2017 Browns and post-2017 Browns (with the new stem markings), and I think that there are differences.

The older Browns are on my Filco Majestouch 2, which is noted for allegedly picking the smoother or better Browns for those models. These would be pre-retooling (I think the keyboard is from 2016) and have the old stems and housings. [Not vintage, though, just the intermediate period when Cherry let its tooling go downhill, say 2007-2017 or so.]

The old Browns were absolutely terrible when I got them. My first mech, and it felt worse than a rubber-dome to me. It didn't take long to adjust to the lighter weight and middle-actuation of the switches, though. It took a long time for the switches to break-in, maybe a year, but they are smoother now, and enjoyable with thick DCS-profile.

The new Browns, I received on a Varmilo VA87M and then a Leopold FC900R. These seemed different from the older pre-2017 Browns on my MJ2. The new Browns are not quite as scratchy out-of-the-box, and maybe even seemed a little smoother. The tactile bump is a little more distinct, although more of a subconscious 'click.' Some say the 'retooled' Browns are more like Gaterons than before. I've noticed that, a year later, the Browns on the VA87M have changed less than those of my Majestouch. The new ones seem smoother out-of-the-box, but my older models may have smoothed out more.

Anyway, I can't tell you for sure whether there are any definite changes, besides markings on the stem and housing. Maybe the tooling is a little newer, maybe they changed things a bit. Nobody seems to care enough to check!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:42:05
But I personally wouldn't ever really advocate for a switch that requires modification when new from the factory.

That's all well and good, but the majority of people in this hobby mod their switches, no matter how nice they are stock.

Browns don't need to be modded, they need to be used for a few months to break in because of bad tooling. Old browns are better because they were produced when the tooling was new, but the switch was not produced outside of specialty boards and random compaqs during that time, so they're hard to find. Vint blacks are talked about and praised a lot because they're everywhere. But if browns were more readily available when the tooling was new, I'm almost positive they would be thought of in the same "They're scratchy now, but the vints feel great" way.

I'm not sure if the tooling for browns was updated with their linears that recently got updated, but I imagine not. Someone feel free to clue me in if they were though.
My problem with MX brown is as follows. First, as Maledicted mentioned, MX browns have tactility that's on par with their scratchiness and therefore hard to detect. This is the most outwardly noticeable symptom, though not the root cause, which is where my problem with them lies.

This I will outline by following up on your point; the vintage MX browns I reviewed (in the original model of keyboard they were designed for, actually) were not, in my opinion, able to adequately or even noticeably address the issue mentioned above, although according to your theory, it should. However, the way I see it, the reason for their lacklustre tactility is not bad tooling; in my opinion, the whole design of tactile MX switches is not physically capable of generating a tactility that will NOT feel like scratchiness. The notch they use will always generate a wave-like, weak tactility, rather than a true tactile drop. It's not just MX brown, it's EVERY MX-type tactile switch. Lubrication will only make this worse, and no amount of spring swapping or other modding will ever fix this inherent issue. THAT is why I dislike tactile MX switches so much.

Of course, to each their own, but to me someone who likes tactile switches to have no tactility is as bizarre as someone who likes their switches to be as scratchy as possible, and saying it was never meant to be tactile in a noticeable way is saying it was designed to fail xD .

I can only really say that we've had different experiences with vintage browns then. All of the one's I've had that were considered "true vintage" have been very noticeably smoother to me. One set being well worn, another being hardly used, but both being similar for me in terms of smoothness.

Also to clarify, I'm not arguing that the tactility was more noticeable when the tooling was new, only the smoothness being better.

It's hard to argue that Browns aren't meant to be noticeably tactile without sounding a bit silly, and I get that, but honestly they have to have the "tactile" qualifier because you can't really call them "sorta tactile but just barely" or "technically tactile?". Our argument is that the very low tactility of browns is desirable to a lot of people, not that they are an amazing tactile switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:55:22
Let's face it. We're like the craft-beer drinkers of the keyboard world. Many like special custom beer fermented in special ways, with extra custom 'hops' that may not be tolerable to the average drinker.

MX Browns are like the Coors Light or Molson Canadian that is available at the chain restaurant - a relatively consistent and affordable product that is tolerable to most people, and good enough to get you drunk, given sufficient quantity.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:57:34
Let's face it. We're like the craft-beer drinkers of the keyboard world. Many like special custom beer fermented in special ways, with extra custom 'hops' that may not be tolerable to the average drinker.

MX Browns are like the Coors Light or Molson Canadian that is available at the chain restaurant because it is tolerable to most people, and good enough to get you drunk, given sufficient quantity.

 :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:59:33
Actually, now that I think about it, MX Brown really is like a light beer. You can type a lot / drink a lot, it is barely satisfying or unsatisfying on its own, but it can get the job done for cheap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 07 January 2020, 14:00:13
I was going to write a big post about this when I was typing on an MX Brown keyboard for months, but I'll give you an abbreviated version:

MX Browns are a 'chill' switch. They are meant to be linears with a barely-noticeable bump.

They are a 'subconscious' switch. For touch typists, they give just enough subconscious feedback to indicate that a key has been pressed. That way, the typist can continue on an ergonomic low-tactility, low-weight switch without thinking about the switch at all.

They are meant to get out of your way. To be invisible. You don't type on MX Browns one character at-a-time. You type one-word-at-a time, one sentence at-a-time. You just imagine the word, and it appears on your screen. You don't think about typing.

It was clearly meant to be a business-like switch that isn't part of your conscious typing experience. The individual switch-feel is terrible, especially on new Browns. But you don't even feel this complete process if you type a full sentence. If you're a touch-typist and a light-typist, you don't even bottom-out on Browns, so it's just subconscious-activation directly to the next letter, with hardly any feel in-between.

Now, there are a lot of switch 'enthusiasts' here, and on Reddit. We want the best switch 'feel.' For some people, the typing is an end-in-itself. This is not who MX Brown is designed for. It's designed for average Joes and Janes who are entering spreadsheet data, typing Microsoft Office reports, gaming, and transcribing. They aren't looking for the optimum or 'premium' switch-feel, just something that works.

This is why MX Browns are unpopular in enthusiast communities, but are popular in the larger typing world. The end users are looking for different things.

I am a touch typist, but not a particularly light one. The scratchiness of browns bothers me enough to make me think about each keystroke, although maybe I would just need to use them a while. It seems to me that any switch type can get out of your way/be invisible, it all comes down to what you're focusing on at the moment.

But I personally wouldn't ever really advocate for a switch that requires modification when new from the factory.

That's all well and good, but the majority of people in this hobby mod their switches, no matter how nice they are stock.

Browns don't need to be modded, they need to be used for a few months to break in because of bad tooling. Old browns are better because they were produced when the tooling was new, but the switch was not produced outside of specialty boards and random compaqs during that time, so they're hard to find. Vint blacks are talked about and praised a lot because they're everywhere. But if browns were more readily available when the tooling was new, I'm almost positive they would be thought of in the same "They're scratchy now, but the vints feel great" way.

I'm not sure if the tooling for browns was updated with their linears that recently got updated, but I imagine not. Someone feel free to clue me in if they were though.

I also wouldn't, personally, advocate for switches that require breaking in when new from the factory. Modding for a very specific feel you can't get otherwise, of course, makes perfect sense to me. I've repeatedly thought about modified clickbars and spring weights to make Box Jades or Navies more of an intermediate weight, with much less of a tactile upstroke (more similar to alps), though I haven't tried anything yet. I don't have a massive sample size, but Cherry MX feels like Cherry MX to me, old or new. They've apparently been retooled many times since the "Vintage black" days.

You do what you have to do, man. I'm just making the point that there are very good reasons that most people do not like Cherry MX Brown. Nobody is wrong for liking them. Have you tried any of the Kailh Box tactiles?

It's just a meme in the community to hate browns, so I feel a need to defend them.

Break in is a real thing with a lot of good switches, silents especially I've found. It's plastic rubbing plastic which in most cases isn't super smooth. They can be smooth off the rip for sure, but I don't fault a switch for needing a break in period personally.

I've tried the boxes you're talking about, but only individually. I was cautious to use them at the time because of the stem issues they were having. But honestly, I don't like the look of them so I haven't had the desire to grab any personally.

I've tried a lot of switches over time, and I personally think vintage is a thing, even if it is just really worn in stems. The older housings even make new stems feel smoother in my experience.

You don't like the look of them? Are you using completely clear, unfrosted keycaps?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 07 January 2020, 14:06:39
You don't like the look of them? Are you using completely clear, unfrosted keycaps?

lol no, I would just think about it all the time, and it would annoy me. I'm like that with a lot of things, irrationally.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 07 January 2020, 14:23:28
I was going to write a big post about this when I was typing on an MX Brown keyboard for months, but I'll give you an abbreviated version:

MX Browns are a 'chill' switch. They are meant to be linears with a barely-noticeable bump.



I am a touch typist, but not a particularly light one. The scratchiness of browns bothers me enough to make me think about each keystroke, although maybe I would just need to use them a while. It seems to me that any switch type can get out of your way/be invisible, it all comes down to what you're focusing on at the moment.


That's fair. The scratchiness used to bother me, but more than a year of smoothing-in plus thick DCS keycaps ameliorated that problem somewhat.

If I was to add an addendum to what I wrote about MX Brown being a 'chill' switch, I would say that MX Browns tend to reflect your emotional state at the time. I find that if I am bored with what I am typing, I just sort of listlessly peck away at them, it comes out as this very 'meh' flow. But if I am interested in what I am writing, it comes out more energetically. Being a bland switch without a lot of character, MX Browns may be more reflective of user force than other switches.

Then again, the scratichness gets in the way, as you say.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 07 January 2020, 14:51:32
If I was to add an addendum to what I wrote about MX Brown being a 'chill' switch, I would say that MX Browns tend to reflect your emotional state at the time. I find that if I am bored with what I am typing, I just sort of listlessly peck away at them, it comes out as this very 'meh' flow. But if I am interested in what I am writing, it comes out more energetically. Being a bland switch without a lot of character, MX Browns may be more reflective of user force than other switches.

I suppose I'm always just bottoming out every switch I use at rapid pace, so I'm not a very ... expressive typist.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Tue, 07 January 2020, 21:28:28
Let's face it. We're like the craft-beer drinkers of the keyboard world. Many like special custom beer fermented in special ways, with extra custom 'hops' that may not be tolerable to the average drinker.

MX Browns are like the Coors Light or Molson Canadian that is available at the chain restaurant - a relatively consistent and affordable product that is tolerable to most people, and good enough to get you drunk, given sufficient quantity.
:thumb:

It's like free beer to me, I've yet to have free beer that I hated, even if the quality wasn't so good.

For me honestly, I never tried a brown until about a month ago with a huge key tester I got on kbdfans:
I got the big boy: https://kbdfans.com/collections/switches-tester/products/kbdfans-72-switches-tester-all-in-one

It was wonderful this year because it helped me figure out a lot about people's preferences (or lack thereof) around me.

But of course I had my own personal moment when I got it out and capped it up, just to feel what everything felt like and what I thought, and it didn't take long for me to realize what I cared for in a switch.

I got through the bottom, and decided to feel the regular ole cherry switches, and browns put me off immediately. They feel dirty to me, like they've been left outside and then put into a keyboard.

Perhaps an entire board of them would feel different rather than just one, but it made me realize very quickly that tactile isn't any good to me unless I've got a click with it, then magically it's great.

If I was given a board with Cherry browns in it, I would type on it, but I would never buy one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 08 January 2020, 08:23:22

I find that if I am bored with what I am typing, I just sort of listlessly peck away at them,

But if I am interested in what I am writing, it comes out more energetically.


This a real characteristic that I appreciate in buckling springs, although I would re-frame it.

When I am typing fast and well I can touch type on them without bottoming out, since the tactility tells me when the key has done its job. But when I am irritated or frustrated, I can stab away with hundreds of grams of force and know that the keys are still OK with my mood.

About brown Cherry switches, although I don't use them, they are not that bad * ONCE THEY ARE BROKEN IN PROPERLY * (ergo clears are very similar but better IMO) and, of course, any tactility is better than no tactility.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: megasthenes on Wed, 08 January 2020, 11:55:24
Did someone already mention that IBM Model Ms are not that great?

They're built like tanks, okay. They look good and have a great overall design.

But I can't stand typing on one for more than a few minutes. They don't feel that great and that sound might give some WWII veterans PTSD.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 08 January 2020, 11:58:02
Did someone already mention that IBM Model Ms are not that great?

They're built like tanks, okay. They look good and have a great overall design.

But I can't stand typing on one for more than a few minutes. They don't feel that great and that sound might give some WWII veterans PTSD.

why do people like heavy switches?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: megasthenes on Wed, 08 January 2020, 12:09:21
I don't know maybe they need to compensate for something?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 08 January 2020, 12:34:48
I disagree that they're built like tanks, if they weren't held together with plastic rivets, they would be. One might argue that the bolt mod is easy enough to do, which would probably make them amongst the tankiest boards around. I haven't attempted it with either of mine yet, though I know at least one needs it. The keys all feel terrible. The other's keys feel mushy to me. I would assume that since the guy I got it from is a Model M fanatic that it was in good condition inside, but I'll have to investigate that.

I do, however, like the Model M's sound. The Model F is the king of BS though. Lighter, smoother, more consistent.

I don't know that it is necessarily just heavy switches. I noticed that I love Box Navies, but I am not (yet) much of a fan of Cherry MX Black. They seem to fatigue me more quickly, and take more effort to ensure actuation ... somehow. Box Navies, while very heavy, do have better tactility and balance between the clickbar and return spring than Jades, and I think both switches have much better feel than the lighter switches in the spectrum. I don't know that any of that matters with Cherry MX, with those blues are just good enough either way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Wed, 08 January 2020, 18:59:04
Did someone already mention that IBM Model Ms are not that great?

They're built like tanks, okay. They look good and have a great overall design.

But I can't stand typing on one for more than a few minutes. They don't feel that great and that sound might give some WWII veterans PTSD.

why do people like heavy switches?

Because I'm compensa....

I don't know maybe they need to compensate for something?

ummm. err... um.  :-X

For me, it's two things really I think:

1. Nostalgia is a huge thing for me, I grew up typing on them, they have a comfortable and familiar feeling to me, and the click is therapeutic for me and gives me tons of feedback so I know I pressed a key successfully. I do know it's overkill, but I enjoy that.

2. I didn't realize for years, but I pulverize keyboards, and it's not really intentional. I've always typed hard, so lighter keys feel too cheap to me, don't give enough feedback, or just don't satisfy the individual typing stroke I just made, so I can't get a rhythm.

Now I know full well that lighter keys aren't cheap, and that not everyone wants that feedback, but it hurts my typing ability if I lack that.

While I've given three BS keyboards to others in my family, I and they are in the minority in the family for enjoying the sound or feel, that I do know.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Wed, 08 January 2020, 19:05:36
I disagree that they're built like tanks, if they weren't held together with plastic rivets, they would be. One might argue that the bolt mod is easy enough to do, which would probably make them amongst the tankiest boards around. I haven't attempted it with either of mine yet, though I know at least one needs it. The keys all feel terrible. The other's keys feel mushy to me. I would assume that since the guy I got it from is a Model M fanatic that it was in good condition inside, but I'll have to investigate that.

I do, however, like the Model M's sound. The Model F is the king of BS though. Lighter, smoother, more consistent.

I don't know that it is necessarily just heavy switches. I noticed that I love Box Navies, but I am not (yet) much of a fan of Cherry MX Black. They seem to fatigue me more quickly, and take more effort to ensure actuation ... somehow. Box Navies, while very heavy, do have better tactility and balance between the clickbar and return spring than Jades, and I think both switches have much better feel than the lighter switches in the spectrum. I don't know that any of that matters with Cherry MX, with those blues are just good enough either way.

They do have a pretty heavy built quality, even new Unicomps, compared especially to rubber dome keyboards.

But you are 1000% correct about bolt mods, many Model M's ages work against them so it's very possible to need that mod depending on how hard you type, and what you do on the keyboard. It also depends on the condition of the Model M you buy and how it comes, a great deal many were used for literal decades.

Model F's are the tanks, they are heavy, they are metal, and they are entire experiences of their own. My F122 was something I wanted, but it still scares me with how big it is. I love it, but I won't pretend it's a practical keyboard, It stays on my desk and I have no desk space in front of me now.

My Bigfoot is another tank that I use on my Mac, and it's fun, but it's got limitations, it's footprint is also just massive for what it is. I enjoy it, but people do think my setup is kooky.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 09 January 2020, 07:50:26
They do have a pretty heavy built quality, even new Unicomps, compared especially to rubber dome keyboards.

But you are 1000% correct about bolt mods, many Model M's ages work against them so it's very possible to need that mod depending on how hard you type, and what you do on the keyboard. It also depends on the condition of the Model M you buy and how it comes, a great deal many were used for literal decades.

Model F's are the tanks, they are heavy, they are metal, and they are entire experiences of their own. My F122 was something I wanted, but it still scares me with how big it is. I love it, but I won't pretend it's a practical keyboard, It stays on my desk and I have no desk space in front of me now.

My Bigfoot is another tank that I use on my Mac, and it's fun, but it's got limitations, it's footprint is also just massive for what it is. I enjoy it, but people do think my setup is kooky.

Alas, the F AT you want does not have a metal lower casing, like the XT, 122, etc. The guts aren't all held together with plastic rivets though. If you wait long enough, maybe you might as well hold out for one of the new F77s in whatever modern layout you like and use your own F/M keycaps. I wanted an F122 myself since I could get very close to ANSI without ruining the plate, unlike an AT, but I have no desk space anywhere for those land whales anyway, and I have quite a few desks to populate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Thu, 09 January 2020, 19:28:41
Alas, the F AT you want does not have a metal lower casing, like the XT, 122, etc. The guts aren't all held together with plastic rivets though. If you wait long enough, maybe you might as well hold out for one of the new F77s in whatever modern layout you like and use your own F/M keycaps. I wanted an F122 myself since I could get very close to ANSI without ruining the plate, unlike an AT, but I have no desk space anywhere for those land whales anyway, and I have quite a few desks to populate.

A man could only wish that all keyboards had that sort of plate, it makes a keyboard feel incredibly quality that is for sure.

I've been torn back and forth on the new F77's but really want to see a review done on one by Chryros or someone else on Youtube. I want to see them in peoples hands, hear the feedback before I commit. Thankfully there seems to be plans for another run.

I don't blame you on not having the space, it's a battle for me, I couldn't believe that my current desk was okay with the two, but I plan on getting an IKEA one soon enough and getting a BIIIIG key tray installed for the same reason. Once I get my wrists looked at, I may again go back to just one massive keyboard, instead of a setup that looks like a medieval Organ.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pabile on Thu, 09 January 2020, 21:26:03
I still do not understand the usefulness of a 60% keyboards, I at least need arrows. Also the excuse of space saving simply is invalid for me. If you do not have space for at least a ten-keyless, where is your monitor?

have you tried using space as Fn? my workhorse is a conventional 60% and i work with a lot of spreadsheets. never needed anything bigger than 60% so far. my arrow cluster is like so:
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 10 January 2020, 10:55:31
Alas, the F AT you want does not have a metal lower casing, like the XT, 122, etc. The guts aren't all held together with plastic rivets though. If you wait long enough, maybe you might as well hold out for one of the new F77s in whatever modern layout you like and use your own F/M keycaps. I wanted an F122 myself since I could get very close to ANSI without ruining the plate, unlike an AT, but I have no desk space anywhere for those land whales anyway, and I have quite a few desks to populate.

A man could only wish that all keyboards had that sort of plate, it makes a keyboard feel incredibly quality that is for sure.

I've been torn back and forth on the new F77's but really want to see a review done on one by Chryros or someone else on Youtube. I want to see them in peoples hands, hear the feedback before I commit. Thankfully there seems to be plans for another run.

I don't blame you on not having the space, it's a battle for me, I couldn't believe that my current desk was okay with the two, but I plan on getting an IKEA one soon enough and getting a BIIIIG key tray installed for the same reason. Once I get my wrists looked at, I may again go back to just one massive keyboard, instead of a setup that looks like a medieval Organ.

The Unitek K151Ls seem to be relatively cheap, and those are built like tanks. Metal plate, metal lower casing, even metal wire feet. I think they have NKRO as well, although I should really test that. They even have XT/AT switches. They come with "vintage" black switches, but I plan to swap mine for Kailh box switches eventually. The layout is AT, unfortunately.

F77 #191 is mine, so if there's nothing before I get it, I'll let you know what I think.

I don't think that your current desk is actually ok with it. I think it is suffering silently, praying for death. Those things may snap an IKEA desk in half. That would be a shame, the medieval organ looks great.

I still do not understand the usefulness of a 60% keyboards, I at least need arrows. Also the excuse of space saving simply is invalid for me. If you do not have space for at least a ten-keyless, where is your monitor?

have you tried using space as Fn? my workhorse is a conventional 60% and i work with a lot of spreadsheets. never needed anything bigger than 60% so far. my arrow cluster is like so:
(Attachment Link)

Do you mix a lot of hotkeys with the arrow keys when navigating a spreadsheet? Sometimes I'm using shift, sometimes ctrl, sometimes both (at least in Google Sheets, which is used a lot at work). Throwing yet another key to press into the works is a no-go as far as I'm concerned. a 75% isn't so much bigger that it makes any difference.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Fri, 10 January 2020, 18:47:41
The Unitek K151Ls seem to be relatively cheap, and those are built like tanks. Metal plate, metal lower casing, even metal wire feet. I think they have NKRO as well, although I should really test that. They even have XT/AT switches. They come with "vintage" black switches, but I plan to swap mine for Kailh box switches eventually. The layout is AT, unfortunately.

F77 #191 is mine, so if there's nothing before I get it, I'll let you know what I think.

I don't think that your current desk is actually ok with it. I think it is suffering silently, praying for death. Those things may snap an IKEA desk in half. That would be a shame, the medieval organ looks great.

I'd love to see a Unitek K151L with Box Navies in it, that'd be a hell of a keyboard I'd say.

oooh! I'd love to hear what you think of it. From what you tell me we seem to share most of our keyboard tastes, so it'd be quite a bit if I got your opinion on the matter.

It just creaks and groans in the night, like oaks swaying in the wind, I thought all old desks did that.  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sat, 11 January 2020, 00:11:25
The Unitek K151Ls seem to be relatively cheap, and those are built like tanks. Metal plate, metal lower casing, even metal wire feet. I think they have NKRO as well, although I should really test that. They even have XT/AT switches. They come with "vintage" black switches, but I plan to swap mine for Kailh box switches eventually. The layout is AT, unfortunately.

F77 #191 is mine, so if there's nothing before I get it, I'll let you know what I think.

I don't think that your current desk is actually ok with it. I think it is suffering silently, praying for death. Those things may snap an IKEA desk in half. That would be a shame, the medieval organ looks great.

I'd love to see a Unitek K151L with Box Navies in it, that'd be a hell of a keyboard I'd say.

oooh! I'd love to hear what you think of it. From what you tell me we seem to share most of our keyboard tastes, so it'd be quite a bit if I got your opinion on the matter.

It just creaks and groans in the night, like oaks swaying in the wind, I thought all old desks did that.  :D

That was my thinking. They're not extremely sought-after, and were made by a company that nobody cares about, but actually subcontracted out to another company that nobody cares about, so swapping the switches wouldn't be sacrilege. Nice thick, hollow upper casing, on top of all of the steel everywhere, should make it a thunderous keyboard with some thick clicks. It actually makes it kind of sad that they wasted its earthquake potential on linear switches. They're cake to take apart too. I'll just have to decide which keyboards to prioritize. I have already put box navies into a k65, and box jades into this TG3 cop keyboard ... too many keyboards to mod, too little switches to put in them.

I'll keep you informed. I'm getting the zinc-cased one of course, since who would go with boring aluminum when given the choice? I need to be able to use it as armor, or a wheel block, etc, in an emergency, afterall.

You know, if you wall mount the monitors, you might be able to add another Model M to the medieval organ. It probably already really needs some steel crossbars for reinforcement as it is though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pabile on Mon, 13 January 2020, 19:23:14
...
I still do not understand the usefulness of a 60% keyboards, I at least need arrows. Also the excuse of space saving simply is invalid for me. If you do not have space for at least a ten-keyless, where is your monitor?

have you tried using space as Fn? my workhorse is a conventional 60% and i work with a lot of spreadsheets. never needed anything bigger than 60% so far. my arrow cluster is like so:
(Attachment Link)

Do you mix a lot of hotkeys with the arrow keys when navigating a spreadsheet? Sometimes I'm using shift, sometimes ctrl, sometimes both (at least in Google Sheets, which is used a lot at work). Throwing yet another key to press into the works is a no-go as far as I'm concerned. a 75% isn't so much bigger that it makes any difference.

yes, i do use them a lot. apologies for the image i posted is incomplete. f-row and all modifiers are present in that layer. i had a lot of convenience since i moved to 60%, the arrow cluster becomes too far for me now. i also have a 3rd layer, caps lock+fn, that opens numpad under 789uiojkl et al plus the mouse keys under WASD. moving my right hand to use my mouse becomes way way less than before. i can recreate configuration file if you wish to try it out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Mon, 13 January 2020, 19:37:09
That was my thinking. They're not extremely sought-after, and were made by a company that nobody cares about, but actually subcontracted out to another company that nobody cares about, so swapping the switches wouldn't be sacrilege. Nice thick, hollow upper casing, on top of all of the steel everywhere, should make it a thunderous keyboard with some thick clicks. It actually makes it kind of sad that they wasted its earthquake potential on linear switches. They're cake to take apart too. I'll just have to decide which keyboards to prioritize. I have already put box navies into a k65, and box jades into this TG3 cop keyboard ... too many keyboards to mod, too little switches to put in them.

I'll keep you informed. I'm getting the zinc-cased one of course, since who would go with boring aluminum when given the choice? I need to be able to use it as armor, or a wheel block, etc, in an emergency, afterall.

You know, if you wall mount the monitors, you might be able to add another Model M to the medieval organ. It probably already really needs some steel crossbars for reinforcement as it is though.

I'd want to hear a video of just the popping thunder it'd create. I feel like it'd be probably pound for pound, one of the loudest and clickiest possible keyboards. I really wonder if it would amplify or stop the ping. (My F122 is surprisingly not very pingy.) Should you find time and switches to devote to them, please take pictures throughout the process, I'd love to see it.

I keep looking at the website and keep debating, I really think I'll get in on the next round as they are just so cool. Aluminum? Pfff, Zinc all the way! I don't feel safe unless my keyboard weighs as much as the wheels on my car. We need protection in these heady times.

I thought about it, but what you can't see in the picture is a shelf of knick-knacks that I keep above my monitors, I really need to find a wall shelf for them so I can free my desk of a shelf on it's back. That'd make a huge difference. I probably should add more Rebar, the last two snapped last night, They just don't make steel like they used to.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 13 January 2020, 20:47:03
I'd want to hear a video of just the popping thunder it'd create. I feel like it'd be probably pound for pound, one of the loudest and clickiest possible keyboards. I really wonder if it would amplify or stop the ping. (My F122 is surprisingly not very pingy.) Should you find time and switches to devote to them, please take pictures throughout the process, I'd love to see it.

I keep looking at the website and keep debating, I really think I'll get in on the next round as they are just so cool. Aluminum? Pfff, Zinc all the way! I don't feel safe unless my keyboard weighs as much as the wheels on my car. We need protection in these heady times.

I thought about it, but what you can't see in the picture is a shelf of knick-knacks that I keep above my monitors, I really need to find a wall shelf for them so I can free my desk of a shelf on it's back. That'd make a huge difference. I probably should add more Rebar, the last two snapped last night, They just don't make steel like they used to.

I would need a fancy microphone. I will convert at least one of them to thick clicks for sure though. I have two of them because I liked how beefy the first was. I think one interesting thing about that is my box navy K65 noticeably pings with almost every keypress, and that's an exposed aluminum plate. I'm not sure how much of that is the nature of thick clicks and how much is slamming the caps against the plate with such heavy springs.

They're not going to be made forever, and finding an original zinc-cased F will be ... fun, down the road. Well, yeah. If you're ever caught in an f5 tornado, you could just cling to your F77 to keep from being swept into the air.

I have two monitors mounted to my desk surface with some of those gas spring arms. Another is mounted directly to a vertical slab of whatever wood-like substance this is, since it is one of those tiered corner desks. So, I really have 3 monitors mounted to my desk without taking up really any of the desk's surface. That's reserved for a bunch of junk that doesn't need to be there, of course.

You could make a concrete form and pour a new desk. That should handle the stress, hopefully.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 14 January 2020, 03:01:21
"QMK-compatible" is not a feature !!!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 14 January 2020, 07:24:18

Aluminum? Pfff, Zinc all the way!


They're not going to be made forever, and finding an original zinc-cased F will be ... fun, down the road.


When I took my F-107 case to the metal shop to have it shot-blasted and anodized, I was assuming that it was aluminum.

After working with it for quite a while, they concluded that it was probably a rather low-grade zamak and that it would not be consistent enough in surface color and texture to do anything with except paint or powder coat. I discussed that in my guide.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 14 January 2020, 07:50:29
When I took my F-107 case to the metal shop to have it shot-blasted and anodized, I was assuming that it was aluminum.

After working with it for quite a while, they concluded that it was probably a rather low-grade zamak and that it would not be consistent enough in surface color and texture to do anything with except paint or powder coat. I discussed that in my guide.

Interesting. So the reproductions are made of a higher quality material to boot? That's a beautiful F-107 by the way. I'm jealous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 14 January 2020, 08:03:10
No idea about the new ones.

In reality, it really doesn't matter that much about the metal unless you want it exposed or anodized. Metal is far stronger and more rigid than plastic, it is like how people obsess about a Model M bolt mod - you are replacing little stalks of plastic with steel screws that are orders of magnitude harder and stronger - you are changing it dramatically. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Tue, 14 January 2020, 10:52:58
I would need a fancy microphone. I will convert at least one of them to thick clicks for sure though. I have two of them because I liked how beefy the first was. I think one interesting thing about that is my box navy K65 noticeably pings with almost every keypress, and that's an exposed aluminum plate. I'm not sure how much of that is the nature of thick clicks and how much is slamming the caps against the plate with such heavy springs.

They're not going to be made forever, and finding an original zinc-cased F will be ... fun, down the road. Well, yeah. If you're ever caught in an f5 tornado, you could just cling to your F77 to keep from being swept into the air.

I have two monitors mounted to my desk surface with some of those gas spring arms. Another is mounted directly to a vertical slab of whatever wood-like substance this is, since it is one of those tiered corner desks. So, I really have 3 monitors mounted to my desk without taking up really any of the desk's surface. That's reserved for a bunch of junk that doesn't need to be there, of course.

You could make a concrete form and pour a new desk. That should handle the stress, hopefully.

In time, I bought myself a beecaster from France on Ebay, it sounds really fancy when I put it that way. It was 100 bucks and wound up being the best mic I've ever used, even compared to a blue that I had briefly. (Had to sell it for rent, the Beecaster stays with me, it's just an excellent mic.) But the advice I'd say is, look up old high quality mics from companies that collapsed and get those, it makes a huge difference on the wallet. Neat is still barely around, but even their highest end microphones are 100 bucks now.

I plan on getting two more 4K monitors for my desk of the same make as my primary and mounting them on the wall, so I have all three future ready. (I'll ride this wayy into the time better tech is available, since this is still really new to me anywho.)

Concrete is a very viable material, with steel supports inside, and meshing, I should be able to get a few months out of that.

No idea about the new ones.

In reality, it really doesn't matter that much about the metal unless you want it exposed or anodized. Metal is far stronger and more rigid than plastic, it is like how people obsess about a Model M bolt mod - you are replacing little stalks of plastic with steel screws that are orders of magnitude harder and stronger - you are changing it dramatically. 

If you don't mind me asking, since you've been around a long time, what is your opinion on needing a bolt mod? I do know some really do need it, but is it a prevalent as everyone seems to make it out?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Tue, 14 January 2020, 11:24:40


If you don't mind me asking, since you've been around a long time, what is your opinion on needing a bolt mod? I do know some really do need it, but is it a prevalent as everyone seems to make it out?

Never used an M, but I know it makes a huge difference!! It is much more tactile, and feels more snappy and responsive, from what I've heard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 14 January 2020, 14:16:39

what is your opinion on needing a bolt mod?


I like it because it gives me control and I can "tune" the feel the way I want it. After having done a dozen or so, it becomes a relatively rote task that is not too painful, although it is always fussy and sometimes you wish you hadn't.

There is no number or percentage of broken "rivets" that says the repair is necessary, although if there are a handful missing in a localized area you will probably have some dead or spongy-feeling keys.

For the timid, you can simply drill a partial hole and send a machine screw in from the back side to make a solid repair, although you will have to split the internal assembly completely apart if you want to thoroughly clean everything.

And lastly, as I have said many times before: you don't need to torque the screws down hard. "Light finger snug" is almost always plenty and if you tighten down the screws the feel usually gets worse, not better, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Tue, 14 January 2020, 16:01:15

what is your opinion on needing a bolt mod?


I like it because it gives me control and I can "tune" the feel the way I want it. After having done a dozen or so, it becomes a relatively rote task that is not too painful, although it is always fussy and sometimes you wish you hadn't.

There is no number or percentage of broken "rivets" that says the repair is necessary, although if there are a handful missing in a localized area you will probably have some dead or spongy-feeling keys.

For the timid, you can simply drill a partial hole and send a machine screw in from the back side to make a solid repair, although you will have to split the internal assembly completely apart if you want to thoroughly clean everything.

And lastly, as I have said many times before: you don't need to torque the screws down hard. "Light finger snug" is almost always plenty and if you tighten down the screws the feel usually gets worse, not better, in my opinion.

It's like desoldering stuff. Takes a long time, but is worth it in the end.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Steezus on Tue, 14 January 2020, 16:21:45

what is your opinion on needing a bolt mod?


I like it because it gives me control and I can "tune" the feel the way I want it. After having done a dozen or so, it becomes a relatively rote task that is not too painful, although it is always fussy and sometimes you wish you hadn't.

There is no number or percentage of broken "rivets" that says the repair is necessary, although if there are a handful missing in a localized area you will probably have some dead or spongy-feeling keys.

For the timid, you can simply drill a partial hole and send a machine screw in from the back side to make a solid repair, although you will have to split the internal assembly completely apart if you want to thoroughly clean everything.

And lastly, as I have said many times before: you don't need to torque the screws down hard. "Light finger snug" is almost always plenty and if you tighten down the screws the feel usually gets worse, not better, in my opinion.

It's like desoldering stuff. Takes a long time, but is worth it in the end.

Desoldering doesn't take that long at all if you have the right tools for the job.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Tue, 14 January 2020, 19:29:13

what is your opinion on needing a bolt mod?


I like it because it gives me control and I can "tune" the feel the way I want it. After having done a dozen or so, it becomes a relatively rote task that is not too painful, although it is always fussy and sometimes you wish you hadn't.

There is no number or percentage of broken "rivets" that says the repair is necessary, although if there are a handful missing in a localized area you will probably have some dead or spongy-feeling keys.

For the timid, you can simply drill a partial hole and send a machine screw in from the back side to make a solid repair, although you will have to split the internal assembly completely apart if you want to thoroughly clean everything.

And lastly, as I have said many times before: you don't need to torque the screws down hard. "Light finger snug" is almost always plenty and if you tighten down the screws the feel usually gets worse, not better, in my opinion.

Thank you, your opinion on it means quite a bit to me. I'll need to sit down with a friend on one soon enough then, because there is a spot on his Model M that is feeling off.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 14 January 2020, 21:33:26
In time, I bought myself a beecaster from France on Ebay, it sounds really fancy when I put it that way. It was 100 bucks and wound up being the best mic I've ever used, even compared to a blue that I had briefly. (Had to sell it for rent, the Beecaster stays with me, it's just an excellent mic.) But the advice I'd say is, look up old high quality mics from companies that collapsed and get those, it makes a huge difference on the wallet. Neat is still barely around, but even their highest end microphones are 100 bucks now.

I plan on getting two more 4K monitors for my desk of the same make as my primary and mounting them on the wall, so I have all three future ready. (I'll ride this wayy into the time better tech is available, since this is still really new to me anywho.)

Concrete is a very viable material, with steel supports inside, and meshing, I should be able to get a few months out of that.

I don't do any streaming, and rarely record video of any kind, so I have never really had an interest in extremely crisp/precise microphones. Maybe for keyboards though, just maybe. I do love old stuff though. I found a cool old set of Pioneer headphones from the 70s at a Goodwill once, in the original storage case, with a cloth-wrapped wire running to a quarter inch stereo connector. There was a short in the cable somewhere so I slightly modified the original cable hole to mount a modern 3.5mm jack. Those headphones sound great, especially with classical/retro music.

I still have 1920x1080 displays myself. My primary Samsung display I got in a Black Friday sale in something like 2009 or 2010. I'm waiting to upgrade until I build a new computer ... in a Dell XPS 720 chassis, which is going to take a lot of modification, so I haven't gotten around to it.

Desoldering doesn't take that long at all if you have the right tools for the job.

Agreed. Even with a cheapo manual pump, it can go faster than you think, even if it is still irritatingly tedious. I'm so glad I got a Hakko FR-301. Too many switches to swap to be playing around with those spring-loaded toys.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Wed, 29 January 2020, 15:10:00
Cherry stabilisers feel truly awful.

I've always chosen costar as I don't care about rattle, but dug out a G80-3000 I had kicking about and hot damn do all the stabilised keys feel like total garbage.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 29 January 2020, 15:35:34
Cherry stabilisers feel truly awful.

I've always chosen costar as I don't care about rattle, but dug out a G80-3000 I had kicking about and hot damn do all the stabilised keys feel like total garbage.

I actually wouldn't disagree with that at all. Costars do feel nice, not that I necessarily feel that Cherry ones feel terrible, but certainly not as nice as costars.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Wed, 29 January 2020, 16:34:23
Cherry stabilisers feel truly awful.

I've always chosen costar as I don't care about rattle, but dug out a G80-3000 I had kicking about and hot damn do all the stabilised keys feel like total garbage.

I actually wouldn't disagree with that at all. Costars do feel nice, not that I necessarily feel that Cherry ones feel terrible, but certainly not as nice as costars.

I'm giving the G80 to a coworker, but I still couldn't help but take it apart and clip mod them, which did notably improve the feel, but I still overwhelmingly prefer costar, or alps stabs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 29 January 2020, 16:42:17
Cherry stabilisers feel truly awful.

I've always chosen costar as I don't care about rattle, but dug out a G80-3000 I had kicking about and hot damn do all the stabilised keys feel like total garbage.

I actually wouldn't disagree with that at all. Costars do feel nice, not that I necessarily feel that Cherry ones feel terrible, but certainly not as nice as costars.

I'm giving the G80 to a coworker, but I still couldn't help but take it apart and clip mod them, which did notably improve the feel, but I still overwhelmingly prefer costar, or alps stabs.

I've at no point in time been able to tell a genuinely noticable enough difference in feel between costar and cherry, that I would choose one over the other based on that alone. However I will always choose prepped/modded cherry stabs over costar for both sound and convenience.

Costars aren't nearly the annoyance they were for me when i got my first mech, but every time i have to reseat a spacebar on one of my filcos i wince a bit inside for good measure.

Sound wise i can get them almost dead on where i like them, but no matter what i do, or how much dialectric grease i use, there's always and initial "click" with every stroke. It's tiny after lube, but because everything else on the board sounds great, it emphasizes it heavy.

Oh and gmk/doubleshot cherry being loose on them is a bummer. Not a fan of taping my stems, zzzzzzzz
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 29 January 2020, 18:17:12
I'm giving the G80 to a coworker, but I still couldn't help but take it apart and clip mod them, which did notably improve the feel, but I still overwhelmingly prefer costar, or alps stabs.

Alps stabilizers look very similar to the ones on a board I have with Futaba switches. Those things are freaking annoying to try to put back together. I imagine Alps did a better job of it though, haven't taken apart any of my Alps boards yet. I'll have to compare the costars to them.

I've at no point in time been able to tell a genuinely noticable enough difference in feel between costar and cherry, that I would choose one over the other based on that alone. However I will always choose prepped/modded cherry stabs over costar for both sound and convenience.

Costars aren't nearly the annoyance they were for me when i got my first mech, but every time i have to reseat a spacebar on one of my filcos i wince a bit inside for good measure.

Sound wise i can get them almost dead on where i like them, but no matter what i do, or how much dialectric grease i use, there's always and initial "click" with every stroke. It's tiny after lube, but because everything else on the board sounds great, it emphasizes it heavy.

Oh and gmk/doubleshot cherry being loose on them is a bummer. Not a fan of taping my stems, zzzzzzzz

Interesting, I haven't had any problems with them coming off of a spacebar or anything. I used them with Cherry MX Blues until I upgraded the Das Pro 4 to Kailh Box Navies, so whatever noise they make is probably entirely drowned out now. lol. I do have a brown switch Rosewill with them I could use to try to see what you mean if I hadn't stolen the inserts for the Das' new caps, since Das apparently likes to super glue theirs into the caps, for whatever reason. My keyboards aren't loud enough as it is, I don't need any fancy lube.

In fact, Harley Davidson should have a go at mechanical keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 30 January 2020, 00:26:24
Annoyance of assembly doesn't bother me given I clean boards about once a year, I just use some blunt electronics tweezers to slip the wire in when I do it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Thu, 30 January 2020, 05:19:22
Cherry stabilisers feel truly awful.

I've always chosen costar as I don't care about rattle, but dug out a G80-3000 I had kicking about and hot damn do all the stabilised keys feel like total garbage.

I actually wouldn't disagree with that at all. Costars do feel nice, not that I necessarily feel that Cherry ones feel terrible, but certainly not as nice as costars.

I'm giving the G80 to a coworker, but I still couldn't help but take it apart and clip mod them, which did notably improve the feel, but I still overwhelmingly prefer costar, or alps stabs.

Kind of you to do that
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nonnegaard on Thu, 30 January 2020, 06:20:06
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
I genuinely know linear switches that are more tactile than MX Brown.

chyros moment

chyros moment

chyros moment
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Thu, 30 January 2020, 11:41:54
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
I genuinely know linear switches that are more tactile than MX Brown.

chyros moment

chyros moment

chyros moment

chyros moment
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Thu, 30 January 2020, 11:43:23
Also, here's an unpopular opinion.

Alps whites are too tactile and too heavy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 30 January 2020, 12:04:32
Also, here's an unpopular opinion.

Alps whites are too tactile and too heavy.

Never had the pleasure to feel Alps whites yet, though I have repeatedly looked at getting boards with them. They say they're basically equivalent to blues, just less smooth/refined as iterative changes went into place. I quite like blues, and actually consider them to be a nice moderate switch both in terms of tactility and weight, when compared to things like Box Navies. If white alps is too heavy, I imagine that's doubly so for membrane buckling springs.

What's your Goldilocks zone then?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Thu, 30 January 2020, 13:10:31
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
I genuinely know linear switches that are more tactile than MX Brown.

chyros moment

chyros moment

chyros moment

chyros moment
That's a thing? xD
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 30 January 2020, 13:26:44
That's a thing? xD

I would probably call it more of a Chyrosism. Some sort of low-key, almost passive aggressive, witty swipe at MX Browns in particular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 30 January 2020, 14:07:01
This thread has made me positive that I am the bizzaro-world Chyros.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 30 January 2020, 14:16:13
This thread has made me positive that I am the bizzaro-world Chyros.

Anakin hated sand as well, whereas Kenobi went to live on Tatooine the rest of his life. Perhaps you're Obi Wan Kenobi.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 30 January 2020, 15:24:31
This thread has made me positive that I am wrong

Checks out :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 30 January 2020, 15:47:41
This thread has made me positive that I am wrong

Checks out :P

Being a Chyros stan isn't cute lad >:(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Thu, 30 January 2020, 17:13:05
That's a thing? xD

I would probably call it more of a Chyrosism. Some sort of low-key, almost passive aggressive, witty swipe at MX Browns in particular.
Low-key?! Damn,sounds like I need to up my game (http://forum.falloutstudios.org/public/style_emoticons/default/I8.GIF) .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 30 January 2020, 17:54:58
That's a thing? xD

I would probably call it more of a Chyrosism. Some sort of low-key, almost passive aggressive, witty swipe at MX Browns in particular.
Low-key?! Damn,sounds like I need to up my game
Show Image
(http://forum.falloutstudios.org/public/style_emoticons/default/I8.GIF)
.

Perhaps nonchalant or matter of fact would be more appropriate descriptor than low-key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: amperrsand on Thu, 30 January 2020, 22:33:24
I'm sure this has been said a million times maybe, but I'm new. I don't get artisans. And I'm not talking about the koi pond ones or galaxy ones, or like that cool snow globe one that was a group buy around Christmas. I'm talking the ones where it's just a face of something, like an animal or monster, and it's those same faces/same molds, but just a different color to match. I don't get it. I understand wanting a novelty key that matches your keyboard, but those face ones just don't look that good. Like, I'd never want one near a keyboard of mine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 31 January 2020, 00:26:25
I'm sure this has been said a million times maybe, but I'm new. I don't get artisans. And I'm not talking about the koi pond ones or galaxy ones, or like that cool snow globe one that was a group buy around Christmas. I'm talking the ones where it's just a face of something, like an animal or monster, and it's those same faces/same molds, but just a different color to match. I don't get it. I understand wanting a novelty key that matches your keyboard, but those face ones just don't look that good. Like, I'd never want one near a keyboard of mine.

I agree, but I don't get the snow globe crap either. So long as it doesn't look/feel and sound like garbage, I don't care at all about caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Fri, 31 January 2020, 01:11:30
Being a Chyros stan isn't cute lad >:(

Not a lad, nor am I the kind of princess to be able to feel that grain of sand!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Insy on Tue, 11 February 2020, 18:48:01
Ooh boy I'm gonna have the least popular opinions haha

1. If you don't have a real 10-key, you were probably never trained to use them. If you don't have one but have to do a bunch of arithmetic or fill in spreadsheets, you will want to kill yourself before you're 30 seconds in.
2. Clicky switches are for people who are so insecure they need people to REALLY know that they're typing
3. If you know how to type, you will only ever look at the keyboard very rarely so who cares if there is anything on them or not? If they're cheaply printed it doesn't matter if you wear off the printing because that would only ever be on the keys you don't look at anyway.
4. If I don't look at my keyboard to type, why should it have to be pretty with all sorts of RGB and colored keycaps? Waste of money and distracting.
5. There's not even anything wrong with a good rubber-dome keyboard. The first keyboard I got for myself I bought for $7 in 1996 and I used it until 2010 when it broke for the last time. Individual little yellow rubber domes glued on the contact sheet. Spill a drink on it? Take it apart, wipe the sheet between the contacts and let it dry. Put it back together and viola, no problems. Toss the keycap tray in the dish washer, good as new. New rubber domed keyboard usually also have ****ty shallow keys so I can't say they're good but still. Don't discount something that works if it's comfortable to use.
6. If you don't have F-keys, you can F-yourself. How am I supposed to 1-handed alt-f4 if I have to ALSO press an Fn key of some kind? We invented 104-key boards for a reason.
7. Dvorak was a scam artist and people still believe his lies. Qwerty was developed to facilitate Morse code transcription by grouping letters with common prefixes. Since Morse code is already optimized for minimalist messages, it turns out that keyboard layouts based on Morse are already incredibly good. Check out the Smithsonian magazine on the origin of the Sholes typewriter and Qwerty if you don't believe me.
8. Touch typing does not mean that every finger gets its own column. It means you know how to type without looking at the keyboard aka by touch. People who force themselves to using one column per finger are limiting their flexibility and not achieving their maximum typing potential by using their bodies natural finger positions.

I use a Topre Type Heaven, which gives me that nice rubber-dome softness on bottom-outs along with very durable switches, and a completely normal 45g weight on each switch. Some of the Realforce and other fancy topre keyboards have different weights on different keys, and that totally screws me up. Also, this only cost me $150 while keyboard with 2/3rds of the keys can cost twice as much. What a waste of money.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 11 February 2020, 19:28:02
Ooh boy I'm gonna have the least popular opinions haha

1. If you don't have a real 10-key, you were probably never trained to use them. If you don't have one but have to do a bunch of arithmetic or fill in spreadsheets, you will want to kill yourself before you're 30 seconds in.
2. Clicky switches are for people who are so insecure they need people to REALLY know that they're typing
3. If you know how to type, you will only ever look at the keyboard very rarely so who cares if there is anything on them or not? If they're cheaply printed it doesn't matter if you wear off the printing because that would only ever be on the keys you don't look at anyway.
4. If I don't look at my keyboard to type, why should it have to be pretty with all sorts of RGB and colored keycaps? Waste of money and distracting.
5. There's not even anything wrong with a good rubber-dome keyboard. The first keyboard I got for myself I bought for $7 in 1996 and I used it until 2010 when it broke for the last time. Individual little yellow rubber domes glued on the contact sheet. Spill a drink on it? Take it apart, wipe the sheet between the contacts and let it dry. Put it back together and viola, no problems. Toss the keycap tray in the dish washer, good as new. New rubber domed keyboard usually also have ****ty shallow keys so I can't say they're good but still. Don't discount something that works if it's comfortable to use.
6. If you don't have F-keys, you can F-yourself. How am I supposed to 1-handed alt-f4 if I have to ALSO press an Fn key of some kind? We invented 104-key boards for a reason.
7. Dvorak was a scam artist and people still believe his lies. Qwerty was developed to facilitate Morse code transcription by grouping letters with common prefixes. Since Morse code is already optimized for minimalist messages, it turns out that keyboard layouts based on Morse are already incredibly good. Check out the Smithsonian magazine on the origin of the Sholes typewriter and Qwerty if you don't believe me.
8. Touch typing does not mean that every finger gets its own column. It means you know how to type without looking at the keyboard aka by touch. People who force themselves to using one column per finger are limiting their flexibility and not achieving their maximum typing potential by using their bodies natural finger positions.

I use a Topre Type Heaven, which gives me that nice rubber-dome softness on bottom-outs along with very durable switches, and a completely normal 45g weight on each switch. Some of the Realforce and other fancy topre keyboards have different weights on different keys, and that totally screws me up. Also, this only cost me $150 while keyboard with 2/3rds of the keys can cost twice as much. What a waste of money.

1. I was trained to use a 10-key, although my lack of use of/for it has made me too rusty to practically use it anymore. I work with spreadsheets all day every day, although it is mostly informational/record keeping. I do type plenty of numbers as well though and don't mind just using the the number row. No math though, really.

2. I disagree entirely, and I'm not sure how you even came to this conclusion. Put a Model F and just about anything else in front of me in an empty room, surrounded by empty rooms, and see which one I still choose for its feel and wonderful sound.

3. Agreed

4. Agreed, couldn't this just be combined with #3?

5. Agreed, so long as how it feels, the layout, and whatever else, is your thing. You do you. I think that's actually a fairly popular opinion here.

6. I've never had much use for F-keys myself, and I'm still a fan of giant keyboards in spite of this, but also small ones (so long as they have dedicated arrow keys).

7. No opinion, don't care beyond maybe the historical/developmental aspect, but wouldn't surprise me.

8. I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that point.


Even $150 is pretty spendy in my book, unless I'm looking for blue alps or Model Fs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 11 February 2020, 21:55:57
Ooh boy I'm gonna have the least popular opinions haha

1. If you don't have a real 10-key, you were probably never trained to use them.
2. Clicky switches are for people who are so insecure they need people to REALLY know that they're typing
8. Touch typing does not mean that every finger gets its own column. It means you know how to type without looking at the keyboard aka by touch. People who force themselves to using one column per finger are limiting their flexibility and not achieving their maximum typing potential by using their bodies natural finger positions.

1. Not an opinion, just kind of an assumption of someone personally. Not everyone fills in spreadsheets and does math all day. If I did, 10 key or not, I'd wanna kill myself.
2. Just kind of a **** statement about someone personally again tbh
8. Ergonomically column staggered keyboards are an improvement, and don't hinder your typing ability when used to the layout. Your assumption seems to be that the users of said layouts are only using one column per finger, when that isn't true. Really only need to count that there are more than 4 columns per side of keyboards like this to know that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: GlennL42 on Wed, 12 February 2020, 01:38:27
snip
Most of these can be boiled down to use case and personal opinion, which is perfectly reasonable IMO, though what bugs me is point 2, as I'm sure a lot of people likes their clicky choices not solely because of the fact that they are design to produce clicky sound, but rather the feel they impart, as there will always be an inherent difference between the feel imparted by mechanism of clicky and tactile switches, e.g: clicky switches will always have a comparatively 'cleaner/sharper' break than their tactile counterpart.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Wed, 12 February 2020, 03:23:36
Ooh boy I'm gonna have the least popular opinions haha

1. If you don't have a real 10-key, you were probably never trained to use them. If you don't have one but have to do a bunch of arithmetic or fill in spreadsheets, you will want to kill yourself before you're 30 seconds in.
10key in numpad is the real deal.

Quote
2. Clicky switches are for people who are so insecure they need people to REALLY know that they're typing
Some clicks sound nice and that's about it.

Quote
3. If you know how to type, you will only ever look at the keyboard very rarely so who cares if there is anything on them or not? If they're cheaply printed it doesn't matter if you wear off the printing because that would only ever be on the keys you don't look at anyway.
Aesthetics.
Quote
4. If I don't look at my keyboard to type, why should it have to be pretty with all sorts of RGB and colored keycaps? Waste of money and distracting.
Aesthetics.

Quote
5. There's not even anything wrong with a good rubber-dome keyboard. The first keyboard I got for myself I bought for $7 in 1996 and I used it until 2010 when it broke for the last time. Individual little yellow rubber domes glued on the contact sheet. Spill a drink on it? Take it apart, wipe the sheet between the contacts and let it dry. Put it back together and viola, no problems. Toss the keycap tray in the dish washer, good as new. New rubber domed keyboard usually also have ****ty shallow keys so I can't say they're good but still. Don't discount something that works if it's comfortable to use.
Amen! My Compaq RT101 is an amazing keyboard, I just wish it was smaller.

Quote
6. If you don't have F-keys, you can F-yourself. How am I supposed to 1-handed alt-f4 if I have to ALSO press an Fn key of some kind? We invented 104-key boards for a reason
.
That's personal, I use F keys only to take screenshots on Steam and change Wallpaper Engine presets.

Quote
7. Dvorak was a scam artist and people still believe his lies. Qwerty was developed to facilitate Morse code transcription by grouping letters with common prefixes. Since Morse code is already optimized for minimalist messages, it turns out that keyboard layouts based on Morse are already incredibly good. Check out the Smithsonian magazine on the origin of the Sholes typewriter and Qwerty if you don't believe me.
I'm a Qwertz fossil, so nothing much to say, other than Dvorak is useless at anything else than typing in English.
Quote
8. Touch typing does not mean that every finger gets its own column. It means you know how to type without looking at the keyboard aka by touch. People who force themselves to using one column per finger are limiting their flexibility and not achieving their maximum typing potential by using their bodies natural finger positions.
I actually learned "the actual, government-approved" ten finger touch typing method recently, not only I experienced more fatigue in longer periods of time,  but mainly, it's just so unnatural for my right hand.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Wed, 12 February 2020, 03:59:27
Ooh boy I'm gonna have the least popular opinions haha

1. If you don't have a real 10-key, you were probably never trained to use them. If you don't have one but have to do a bunch of arithmetic or fill in spreadsheets, you will want to kill yourself before you're 30 seconds in.
10key in numpad is the real deal.
20-key numpad da bomb yo :cool: .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 12 February 2020, 09:37:09
Ooh boy I'm gonna have the least popular opinions haha

2. Clicky switches are for people who are so insecure they need people to REALLY know that they're typing
3. If you know how to type, you will only ever look at the keyboard very rarely so who cares if there is anything on them or not? If they're cheaply printed it doesn't matter if you wear off the printing because that would only ever be on the keys you don't look at anyway.
4. If I don't look at my keyboard to type, why should it have to be pretty with all sorts of RGB and colored keycaps? Waste of money and distracting.
5. There's not even anything wrong with a good rubber-dome keyboard. The first keyboard I got for myself I bought for $7 in 1996 and I used it until 2010 when it broke for the last time. Individual little yellow rubber domes glued on the contact sheet. Spill a drink on it? Take it apart, wipe the sheet between the contacts and let it dry. Put it back together and viola, no problems. Toss the keycap tray in the dish washer, good as new. New rubber domed keyboard usually also have ****ty shallow keys so I can't say they're good but still. Don't discount something that works if it's comfortable to use.
6. If you don't have F-keys, you can F-yourself. How am I supposed to 1-handed alt-f4 if I have to ALSO press an Fn key of some kind? We invented 104-key boards for a reason.



About the clicky switches, i just like the sound. What's wrong with that? Also, i don't need to look at my keyboard to type although i type improperly if there was a hand cam.

"iF yOu dOn'T hAvE f KeYs, YoU cAn f yoUrSelf"

I simply don't need function keys for the work i'm doing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Tue, 03 March 2020, 09:30:24
1. People who don't need F keys for their work on computers don't do real work on computers.
2. Artisan keycaps hurt your fingers and your eyes.
2a. The less they hurt your eyes, the more they hurt mine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 03 March 2020, 12:50:20
1. People who don't need F keys for their work on computers don't do real work on computers.
2. Artisan keycaps hurt your fingers and your eyes.
2a. The less they hurt your eyes, the more they hurt mine.

1. What do you consider to be real work?
2. Agreed
3. Agreed
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Tue, 03 March 2020, 15:47:23
1. Anything that exceeds Microsoft Office (or Emacs :-)) work.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 04 March 2020, 16:42:53
1. Anything that exceeds Microsoft Office (or Emacs :-)) work.

But everything exceeds M$ Office, and many people don't even use that anymore. If you can't intuitively figure out M$ Office, you probably shouldn't be employed in a job that utilizes computers at all.

I mostly fix computers, f keys are rarely necessary. All I use spreadsheets/documents for is record-keeping, or when students and teachers can't figure something out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 04 March 2020, 17:15:09
I use F2 = edit, [alt]F4 = close, F5 = refresh, and F11 = toggle full screen/partial screen quite a lot.

Hardly ever any of the other ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 09 March 2020, 16:01:10
I mostly only use function row for browser shortcuts which I would hardly consider browsing the internet real work.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Mon, 09 March 2020, 16:44:46
I think I prefer alps salmon to orange.

They’re amazingly smoother lubed, and lube actually works on them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Mon, 09 March 2020, 20:41:52
I think I prefer alps salmon to orange.

They’re amazingly smoother lubed, and lube actually works on them.

Is that unpopular? I haven’t heard Orange but Salmon ALPS sound better than any other clicky switch I’ve heard. 
Edit: clicky, not flicks
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 09 March 2020, 22:31:38
I think I prefer alps salmon to orange.

They’re amazingly smoother lubed, and lube actually works on them.

Is that unpopular? I haven’t heard Orange but Salmon ALPS sound better than any other flicks switch I’ve heard.

Orange are considered a bit better but Alps in general are good.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 10 March 2020, 09:45:19
I think I prefer alps salmon to orange.

They’re amazingly smoother lubed, and lube actually works on them.

Is that unpopular? I haven’t heard Orange but Salmon ALPS sound better than any other flicks switch I’ve heard.

Orange are considered a bit better but Alps in general are good.

I have never had the pleasure of trying salmon or orange alps, besides maybe in an old Apple board a guy I know is hoarding at a recycling place. That was merely for a moment though. Tactile Alps, in general, seem to be the only tactiles I have tried that seem to have much of any real use.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 10 March 2020, 12:55:13
I think I prefer alps salmon to orange.

They’re amazingly smoother lubed, and lube actually works on them.

Is that unpopular? I haven’t heard Orange but Salmon ALPS sound better than any other flicks switch I’ve heard.

Orange are considered a bit better but Alps in general are good.

I have never had the pleasure of trying salmon or orange alps, besides maybe in an old Apple board a guy I know is hoarding at a recycling place. That was merely for a moment though. Tactile Alps, in general, seem to be the only tactiles I have tried that seem to have much of any real use.

i've never tried alps before
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 10 March 2020, 13:14:25
Wait really? How have you been living without trying Alps at least once?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 10 March 2020, 14:23:23
Wait really? How have you been living without trying Alps at least once?

I hadn't until I found a DC-2014 on an auction website. Barrier to entry, besides the switches nobody particularly cares about, and/or are really dirty, is high.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: squizzler on Thu, 12 March 2020, 14:23:59
A couple from me.

(https://www.kailhswitch.com/uploads/201715927/key-switches-for-gaming-keyboard44231267974.png)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 12 March 2020, 14:32:28
A couple from me.

  • Cherry's model of developing a limited and easy to understand range of switches is better for the consumer than certain manufacturers I can mention who throw every conceivable iteration at the marketplace in order to see what will stick.
  • The MX keycap mount needs to die! Could we not all get behind a hollow "light-well" slider design? I suggest Kailh KO - it combines the best features of that firm's box switch and the Omron B3K (Romer-G, etc).

I agree, for the most part, on your first point. I do love clickbar switches though, and would prefer for Alps SKCM to rise from the ashes instead.

On the second ... I have an Azio Retro Classic with what I think are some of those sliders in them. It feels pretty terrible to type on, and I was going to see if I could swap the switches. If that slider type still allows for clickbars, maybe I wouldn't mind? What exactly are the benefits of that slider over MX stems, besides maybe less wobble, lower chance of snapping?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: squizzler on Thu, 12 March 2020, 14:50:21

I agree, for the most part, on your first point. I do love clickbar switches though.

On the second ... I have an Azio Retro Classic with what I think are some of those sliders in them. It feels pretty terrible to type on, and I was going to see if I could swap the switches. If that slider type still allows for clickbars, maybe I wouldn't mind? What exactly are the benefits of that slider over MX stems?[/list]

The Azio does use that type of switch. Its benefits are the well in the middle for the light to shine through but the thicker slider ought to be more robust (if you squint it is really an extremely fat version of the MX cross mount). Kailh list the switch here (https://www.kailhswitch.com/mechanical-keyboard-switches/key-switches/key-switches-for-gaming-keyboard.html) and here (https://www.kailhswitch.com/info/kailh-ko-switch-pg-29182404.html) as available in linear, tactile and clicky. Don't forget that any clean sheet design will require some tinkering to become refined as what it replaces if the legacy design has been refined over a long time and in the case of MX and its various clones this is definitely the case.

And that the hollow slider / cap mount of the KO or B3K was designed as a light well does not mean that it has to be RGB. Other designers might use that space for more elaborate mechanisms. For instance that hole might accommodate a buckling spring :)

n.b.  Sorry I added to the post whilst you were tying your response:) there is always one more thing to think of after pressing 'send'!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Merranza on Tue, 17 March 2020, 08:23:02
As many keyboard aficionados love the old look and feel of heavier boards like model M and such, I'll get some insults pretty sure but here: I don't like high profile keyboard and prefer standard profile exposing switches.

High profile looks outdated and bulky to me. I prefer a more minimal look. On top of it, seeing switches is not a flaw to me as I like seeing the mecanism. I'm also a cleaning maniac and I hate not being able to remove every bit of dust/hair/etc that gets stuck in the high profile casing. Being able to thoroughly clean the whole plate is more satisfying to me on a standard/low profile board.

Alright, I've said it. Ready for the flaming :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 17 March 2020, 11:52:15
Yeah, high-profile can seem unnecessary and bulky at times. It creates a more solid-looking keyboard, but as you say, that aesthetic is not always wanted.

I have a high-profile Majestouch, and it is a bother to clean. My low-profile keyboards don't seem to have attracted as much dust and particles. People say that the low-profile keyboards get dirtier easier, but I think it is easier to spot and remove it.

They both have their place. I like to use taller switches on high-profile keyboards, such as OEM and eventually MT3. The deep well of the keyboard is more suited to accommodating these tall keycaps. There are SA sets made especially for the Filco, that are seated really well in the case, even if I don't like the profile.

And I like to use shorter keycaps on the low-profile boards. They match the sleekness and lower-profile of the case. They might be better to use at desk-level, being slightly shorter, whereas the high-profile boards with taller keycaps might be better in under-desk trays, since I think they were basically designed for high-profile, OEM-keycap boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 17 March 2020, 20:50:19
As many keyboard aficionados love the old look and feel of heavier boards like model M and such, I'll get some insults pretty sure but here: I don't like high profile keyboard and prefer standard profile exposing switches.

High profile looks outdated and bulky to me. I prefer a more minimal look. On top of it, seeing switches is not a flaw to me as I like seeing the mecanism. I'm also a cleaning maniac and I hate not being able to remove every bit of dust/hair/etc that gets stuck in the high profile casing. Being able to thoroughly clean the whole plate is more satisfying to me on a standard/low profile board.

Alright, I've said it. Ready for the flaming :)

What flaming? Those are almost all pretty valid points. That's one of the many things that I like about Corsair's K65 and K70 boards, an exposed plate with easy cleaning. What is it that you mean by low profile though? I wouldn't sacrifice switch feel for aesthetics myself, if you're talking about non-standard height switches on top of it.

I like both though. I don't particularly care about profile. I have never been picky about that. I'm using a new F77 this very moment, and I have a K70 5 feet from me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 18 March 2020, 07:47:49
A good wrist rest can raise the resting hand height to meet a taller keyboard. I prefer full-width gel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Merranza on Wed, 18 March 2020, 08:50:01
Yeah, high-profile can seem unnecessary and bulky at times. It creates a more solid-looking keyboard, but as you say, that aesthetic is not always wanted.

I have a high-profile Majestouch, and it is a bother to clean. My low-profile keyboards don't seem to have attracted as much dust and particles. People say that the low-profile keyboards get dirtier easier, but I think it is easier to spot and remove it.

They both have their place. I like to use taller switches on high-profile keyboards, such as OEM and eventually MT3. The deep well of the keyboard is more suited to accommodating these tall keycaps. There are SA sets made especially for the Filco, that are seated really well in the case, even if I don't like the profile.

And I like to use shorter keycaps on the low-profile boards. They match the sleekness and lower-profile of the case. They might be better to use at desk-level, being slightly shorter, whereas the high-profile boards with taller keycaps might be better in under-desk trays, since I think they were basically designed for high-profile, OEM-keycap boards.

Those are very valid points.

For my low profile boards, I got one of those hairdresser brush (the really soft one they use on your face to dust off the hair). I tilt the keyboard a few degrees on the side and brush the spaces between the keys. The bristles bend easily and get under the keycaps. Almost all of the dust goes away and the softness of the brush prevents any damage to the plate (those aluminum plates can scratch so easily). Then once in a while, I remove all keycaps and go for a deeper clean.

I haven't tried any SA yet but you are right, they would probably fit a bit better on a high profile.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Merranza on Wed, 18 March 2020, 09:03:49
As many keyboard aficionados love the old look and feel of heavier boards like model M and such, I'll get some insults pretty sure but here: I don't like high profile keyboard and prefer standard profile exposing switches.

High profile looks outdated and bulky to me. I prefer a more minimal look. On top of it, seeing switches is not a flaw to me as I like seeing the mecanism. I'm also a cleaning maniac and I hate not being able to remove every bit of dust/hair/etc that gets stuck in the high profile casing. Being able to thoroughly clean the whole plate is more satisfying to me on a standard/low profile board.

Alright, I've said it. Ready for the flaming :)

What flaming? Those are almost all pretty valid points. That's one of the many things that I like about Corsair's K65 and K70 boards, an exposed plate with easy cleaning. What is it that you mean by low profile though? I wouldn't sacrifice switch feel for aesthetics myself, if you're talking about non-standard height switches on top of it.

I like both though. I don't particularly care about profile. I have never been picky about that. I'm using a new F77 this very moment, and I have a K70 5 feet from me.

Ah thank you, feeling less lonely now! It just seems to me the general consensus shifted heavily in favor of high profile recently and people seem to dislike those low profiles board now (not only here but on other forums/websites too). Might also be the normal "everything that goes mainstream is not cool anymore". Happens to switches, boards and in other domains too.

I began with a K70 and slowly moved toward smaller form factor. GMMK TKL and Magicforce 68. I don't use my K70 anymore. I never thought I'd like smaller than TKL but really, 65% really grew on me and will become my daily for sure. I'm back on my TKL because it has hotswap and I wanted to try other switches but I really prefer my Magicforce in terms of form. My eyes are on something like Massdrop alt (another example of a board that everybody claims is better in high profile). Now if only they could offer a black version of their low profile version... That silver is too shiny for my tase and so hard to match with keycaps.

At work I use a Coolermaster Quickfire TK (wanted smaller + numpad) but that high profile casing is really not my thing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 18 March 2020, 10:00:45
Ah thank you, feeling less lonely now! It just seems to me the general consensus shifted heavily in favor of high profile recently and people seem to dislike those low profiles board now (not only here but on other forums/websites too). Might also be the normal "everything that goes mainstream is not cool anymore". Happens to switches, boards and in other domains too.

I began with a K70 and slowly moved toward smaller form factor. GMMK TKL and Magicforce 68. I don't use my K70 anymore. I never thought I'd like smaller than TKL but really, 65% really grew on me and will become my daily for sure. I'm back on my TKL because it has hotswap and I wanted to try other switches but I really prefer my Magicforce in terms of form. My eyes are on something like Massdrop alt (another example of a board that everybody claims is better in high profile). Now if only they could offer a black version of their low profile version... That silver is too shiny for my tase and so hard to match with keycaps.

At work I use a Coolermaster Quickfire TK (wanted smaller + numpad) but that high profile casing is really not my thing.

Don't mind the herd. You do you. Preference is preference, subjective.  ;)

I have modded a K65 to have an aviator connector and box navies in it. I plan to mod more k65s and k70s similarly with navies and jades. They've got great bones ... if you don't mind the struggle of taking them apart and putting them back together.

I don't care about form factor so long as it has dedicated arrow keys myself. I can't get my favorite sorts of switches in those sizes ... unless I want to murder an SKCM blue keyboard, but I wouldn't mind a 65% with box jades and dedicated arrows. I need all of the desk space I can get at work for working on laptops.

Those Drop Alts look great to me. They're aluminum, right? If you like the keyboard a lot, maybe you could take it to a metal finishing shop, one that does anodization. They could strip the anodization and anodize and dye it whatever color you like from there. Not sure how much that might cost you though. Probably less if you tell them you're in no hurry and to just toss it in with whatever their next black dyed batch ends up being.

I'm a big fan of the old Quickfire Rapids. I never did like the aesthetics of the TK. I saw one for cheap and passed it up.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Merranza on Wed, 18 March 2020, 11:15:37
Ah thank you, feeling less lonely now! It just seems to me the general consensus shifted heavily in favor of high profile recently and people seem to dislike those low profiles board now (not only here but on other forums/websites too). Might also be the normal "everything that goes mainstream is not cool anymore". Happens to switches, boards and in other domains too.

I began with a K70 and slowly moved toward smaller form factor. GMMK TKL and Magicforce 68. I don't use my K70 anymore. I never thought I'd like smaller than TKL but really, 65% really grew on me and will become my daily for sure. I'm back on my TKL because it has hotswap and I wanted to try other switches but I really prefer my Magicforce in terms of form. My eyes are on something like Massdrop alt (another example of a board that everybody claims is better in high profile). Now if only they could offer a black version of their low profile version... That silver is too shiny for my tase and so hard to match with keycaps.

At work I use a Coolermaster Quickfire TK (wanted smaller + numpad) but that high profile casing is really not my thing.

Don't mind the herd. You do you. Preference is preference, subjective.  ;)

I have modded a K65 to have an aviator connector and box navies in it. I plan to mod more k65s and k70s similarly with navies and jades. They've got great bones ... if you don't mind the struggle of taking them apart and putting them back together.

I don't care about form factor so long as it has dedicated arrow keys myself. I can't get my favorite sorts of switches in those sizes ... unless I want to murder an SKCM blue keyboard, but I wouldn't mind a 65% with box jades and dedicated arrows. I need all of the desk space I can get at work for working on laptops.

Those Drop Alts look great to me. They're aluminum, right? If you like the keyboard a lot, maybe you could take it to a metal finishing shop, one that does anodization. They could strip the anodization and anodize and dye it whatever color you like from there. Not sure how much that might cost you though. Probably less if you tell them you're in no hurry and to just toss it in with whatever their next black dyed batch ends up being.

I'm a big fan of the old Quickfire Rapids. I never did like the aesthetics of the TK. I saw one for cheap and passed it up.

Yes, the alt/ctrl/shift are all aluminum keyboards. From what people say, they are not Leopold/Filco quality (stabs are pretty rattly for instance) but I really like the form factor (keycaps are a bit more limited due to right shift and row positioning of that right most column), aesthetics, double USB-C (passthrough) connectors, hotswap, QMK and while not cheap they are also not too expensive.

A more black/dark charcoal low profile alt would probably set me up for many years (not sure why they only offer the black version on their high profile... many people looking at the low profile are asking for the black version... they might offer one eventually). You are right, I could check with a metal finishing shop but damn would I be a bit nervous to leave this in a shop haha. Once I settle down with the alt, I will probably switch my Quickfire TK at work with my GMMK TKL (not really using that much that numpad after all).

Can't really complain about my TK quality though. It is plastic and not really special in any way but for what I paid, it does the job and feels pretty good. Coolermaster make pretty good board in that price range to be honest.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 18 March 2020, 12:17:30
Yes, the alt/ctrl/shift are all aluminum keyboards. From what people say, they are not Leopold/Filco quality (stabs are pretty rattly for instance) but I really like the form factor (keycaps are a bit more limited due to right shift and row positioning of that right most column), aesthetics, double USB-C (passthrough) connectors, hotswap, QMK and while not cheap they are also not too expensive.

A more black/dark charcoal low profile alt would probably set me up for many years (not sure why they only offer the black version on their high profile... many people looking at the low profile are asking for the black version... they might offer one eventually). You are right, I could check with a metal finishing shop but damn would I be a bit nervous to leave this in a shop haha. Once I settle down with the alt, I will probably switch my Quickfire TK at work with my GMMK TKL (not really using that much that numpad after all).

Can't really complain about my TK quality though. It is plastic and not really special in any way but for what I paid, it does the job and feels pretty good. Coolermaster make pretty good board in that price range to be honest.

You can probably tell that I'm not too picky. My F77 space bar is currently very rattly and squeaky ... and I don't care. I imagine you could try swapping them and/or lubing them?

I sure wouldn't leave the whole board and let them disassemble and reassemble, if they would even offer to, much less do it for free. I would strip the board, wrap the chassis in a towel, or paper, or whatever else, and maybe stuff it in a box with some marker on it to identify it. Then it could sit around in their shop pretty safely. Most imperfections in the surface finish should be covered up by the dye anyway, and I think if any were to be created before stripping the anodization, re-anodizing may even fix those as well.

I love Coolermaster as a brand, I just don't like the aesthetics of the TK. I love the lock lights being beneath the keys on the Rapid, with windows in the caps (reminds me of some cool old boards from the 80s, like the Zenith ZKB-2R), the color scheme, the legends, and I believe that the controller even has a drop-in replacement that's programmable. That may be the case with the TK as well though, not sure.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Wed, 18 March 2020, 14:40:24
Here's a potentially unpopular opinion: MX Browns are not good or bad, they just have a logic of their own.

I've written in the past about how MX Browns are a 'chill' switch. They are not meant to provide tactility, but instead a relaxed typing experience. (Think about their inclusion in the Kinesis Advantage, which was their first outing.) They were known as "Ergo Soft" in some internal Cherry documents, if memory serves, and are supposed to provide a stress-free typing experience.

Anyway, we've gone over that ground before, as well as how Browns are a "subconscious" switch, proving just enough tactile information for your fingers to move on without thinking about the tactile feedback.

I've been testing Browns versus a number of switches in the past year, most recently Ergo Clears. And the unique character of Browns has become more apparent in that time. I am typing on some relatively heavy Ergo Clears, that actuate at 60 gr, and bottom-out at 65-70 gr. I had to retrain myself for a few days when I started using them. There's a large tactile bump, compared to browns, and a higher operating force. And stronger springs pressing back against you.

What I learned from the Ergo Clears is that, although they may have a more satisfying tactile process than MX Browns [not a hard bar to clear, I know], it's also a more conscious process. I notice it more while typing, and have to use additional muscles in order to type.

For people who want a satisfying, conscious typing experience, Ergo Clears may feel better than MX Browns. And the epitome of this kind of deliberate tactility is found in the current favourites, such as Holy Pandas and Zealios V2. And that's fine.

Browns weren't meant to compete with that, or to be like that. I've noticed that I can develop a special typing rhythm with the Browns. If you type with just enough force to actuate them, the keys roll into one-another, as you can just make whole words appear almost instantly with a minimum of force. The keyboard sounds like a staccato machine-gun when you do this, the Browns don't get in the way of your typing speed or rhythm at all. The words can appear on the screen as fast as you think, without you thinking about it, and with your fingers barely noticing.

So that's what MX Brown is meant to do: provide a comfortable typing experience that doesn't challenge you, doesn't cause stress or strain, and just flows. It's not individually satisfying in the keypress. And I've said that before. But the characteristic of being an interrupted-linear switch (and not really a "tactile") is that it's almost as easy as a light linear, but does provide that infinitesimal speck of tactility that a pure MX linear won't. And you can type reams of pages while only using a tiny number of muscles. So that's what it's for, and the switches probably lend themselves well to ergo layouts as well. But that's what I'm saying: MX Browns can be used with their own rhythm and typing style that is not identical to pure linears or 'serious' tactile switches. You can just glide the board endlessly with minimal exertion. Minimal feedback. Attempting to use it as a satisfying "tactile" switch is a primary cause of unhappiness with Browns.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Wed, 18 March 2020, 14:49:33
*Additional support for what I'm saying comes from my recent experience in trying my MX Brown keyboard again, after the Ergo Clears.

When I returned to the MX Brown keyboard, I noticed myself hammering the keys. I was just pounding each keypress, bottoming-out hard with each keystroke. I hardly felt any tactility, it felt kind of mushy and buttery to me.

I hadn't always blown through the keys like that, and it made me realize that other people coming from heavier or more tactile keyboards might also be mashing MX Brown keyboards when trying them out, and not really feeling the subtleties of the switch. You have to have a more gentle legato across the keys. It's not better or worse than other methods of typing, but it has its own logic that should be obeyed in order to appreciate the switch. MX Brown is a subtle "collective" switch, rather than an individual switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 18 March 2020, 14:59:37
*Additional support for what I'm saying comes from my recent experience in trying my MX Brown keyboard again, after the Ergo Clears.

When I returned to the MX Brown keyboard, I noticed myself hammering the keys. I was just pounding each keypress, bottoming-out hard with each keystroke. I hardly felt any tactility, it felt kind of mushy and buttery to me.

I hadn't always blown through the keys like that, and it made me realize that other people coming from heavier or more tactile keyboards might also be mashing MX Brown keyboards when trying them out, and not really feeling the subtleties of the switch. You have to have a more gentle legato across the keys. It's not better or worse than other methods of typing, but it has its own logic that should be obeyed in order to appreciate the switch. MX Brown is a subtle "collective" switch, rather than an individual switch.

I believe I have read your post to this effect and I do believe that my thoughts were that this seemed, to me at least, to actually be the opposite. All I think about when typing with browns is how terrible they feel. I don't think about anything else. With switches that I enjoy, I can either enjoy the heck out of them, or subconsciously ignore them entirely and just type ... the way you describe browns as being ideal for. I also don't use super uber fancy ergo boards either though, so I can't say how that may factor in. I can't imagine how switches of other types could somehow get in the way of your rhythm and/or typing speed in any way, unless the springs are literally too heavy to prevent fatigue for you.

I also dislike Cherry MX in general, so that can't help. I used Cherry MX Reds exclusively for the first few years of my mechanical experience. I think I always mashed them until they bottom out, just with less force when I was adjusted to their springs, and I still don't look back fondly on the typing experience other that it felt better than cheap rubber domes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Durburz on Thu, 19 March 2020, 17:21:03
Plate mount stabs are superior  :-X ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Thu, 19 March 2020, 20:56:41

All I think about when typing with browns is how terrible they feel. I don't think about anything else.

I also dislike Cherry MX in general, so that can't help. I used Cherry MX Reds exclusively for the first few years of my mechanical experience. I think I always mashed them until they bottom out, just with less force when I was adjusted to their springs, and I still don't look back fondly on the typing experience other that it felt better than cheap rubber domes.

That's an entirely legitimate perspective. Truth is, Browns often feel bad on an individual basis. And that can detract from the entire typing experience. Cherry really should have tried harder to 1. eliminate scratchiness / grittiness 2. eliminate ping and 3. lube those switches. For starters.

Stock Cherry switches can be terrible in general, although that's not necessarily an unpopular opinion around here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 20 March 2020, 07:53:49
Plate mount stabs are superior  :-X ;D

I'm no stabilizer connoisseur, though I know I seem to prefer Costar to Cherry. Those are both plate-mounted, are they not? What alternative is there? Even the stabilizers in buckling spring boards should technically be plate-mounted, right?

Truth is, Browns often feel bad on an individual basis. And that can detract from the entire typing experience. Cherry really should have tried harder to 1. eliminate scratchiness / grittiness 2. eliminate ping and 3. lube those switches. For starters.

Agreed
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 20 March 2020, 20:41:05
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
I genuinely know linear switches that are more tactile than MX Brown.

chyros moment

chyros moment

chyros moment

chyros moment

chyros moment gives off the same energy as shaded avatar moment

But yeah browns feel almost the same as reds
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sat, 21 March 2020, 11:31:57
chyros moment gives off the same energy as shaded avatar moment

But yeah browns feel almost the same as reds

I think Chyros' description of them is apt, browns feel like scratchy reds. I'm sorry Dale.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DrivenKeys on Wed, 25 March 2020, 05:59:10
The Das x50q is an incredible keyboard, hobbled by terrible software support. I'm usually a heavy switch and Model M lover, but the Omron switches are a lot of fun, once you get used to the very subtle benefits. It's very sturdy, the lighting is extremely well done, and their engineers put a lot of unique quality into its design. Most of their gear is overpriced, but a refurbished x50q is cheaper than many cherry boards that feel lesser quality. Once the firmware is updated, as long as you like the handful of stock colors, the x50q is quite a steal.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Wed, 25 March 2020, 21:50:55
chyros moment gives off the same energy as shaded avatar moment

But yeah browns feel almost the same as reds

I think Chyros' description of them is apt, browns feel like scratchy reds. I'm sorry Dale.

I always describe them to friends as dirty reds, because they feel like they have grit in them. I'm always surprised by how many people like them. I don't think I'm the kind of people those switches had in mind.

I've always wanted to try Omrons, I've only heard good things about them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Thu, 26 March 2020, 04:03:29
chyros moment gives off the same energy as shaded avatar moment

But yeah browns feel almost the same as reds

I think Chyros' description of them is apt, browns feel like scratchy reds. I'm sorry Dale.

I always describe them to friends as dirty reds, because they feel like they have grit in them. I'm always surprised by how many people like them. I don't think I'm the kind of people those switches had in mind.

I've always wanted to try Omrons, I've only heard good things about them.
They're good, but super unreliable xD .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Avi_ on Thu, 26 March 2020, 10:30:55
Here's a potentially unpopular opinion: MX Browns are not good or bad, they just have a logic of their own.

I agree with what you said about the MX Browns fully. Very well put. When I type on Browns and try to enjoy it, it does not work. They are not enjoyable. But when I do work using Browns, I sometimes notice how quick and effortlessly I type, compared to other types of switches that I actually enjoy (Box Pinks, for example).

At some point I decided to replace the MX Browns on my Leopold board with something else, but later I realized that Browns have their use. It's what you described in your post.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacethesaltsculptor on Thu, 26 March 2020, 10:38:14
They're good, but super unreliable xD .

You did a review of those didn't you? I should give it a watch.

Here's a potentially unpopular opinion: MX Browns are not good or bad, they just have a logic of their own.

I agree with what you said about the MX Browns fully. Very well put. When I type on Browns and try to enjoy it, it does not work. They are not enjoyable. But when I do work using Browns, I sometimes notice how quick and effortlessly I type, compared to other types of switches that I actually enjoy (Box Pinks, for example).

At some point I decided to replace the MX Browns on my Leopold board with something else, but later I realized that Browns have their use. It's what you described in your post.

I think that sums it up well. Although you did make me think, I probably should try using Browns in a work capacity, using things during work has changed my mind on a lot of things over the years. 5 minutes of playing with a switch tester doesn't always cut it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Thu, 26 March 2020, 15:57:06


At some point I decided to replace the MX Browns on my Leopold board with something else, but later I realized that Browns have their use. It's what you described in your post.

Yes, they were meant to be non-distracting and stay out-of-the-way, I think.

There wouldn't be so many complaints about them if they were smoother out-of-the-box and called "Ergo Soft" (as they once were) instead of "tactile."
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RominRonin on Sat, 18 April 2020, 21:58:18
I think I've found your problem. You haven't tried Alps
To be fair, many here also haven’t tried ergo clears, especially the new comers - who will all believe that the Holy Panda and the zero pre-travel switch is the ultimate tactile feeling switch.

The v1 zeal switch was an easy way to attain ergo clear like feel without the effort of modding them yourself (even then, I think ergo clears are nicer) - but they are discontinued now.

I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but as a typist and developer, I find the force curve ofHoly Pandas horrendous to type on.

It’s great when you type on them individually, they perform great on a switch tester - but for typing all day everyday, lubed ergo clears are the best tactile experience, not this zero pre-travel false messiah that has taken our community by storm.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sun, 19 April 2020, 11:58:10
Ergo Clears take full advantage of the Cherry tactile mechanism and the advantage of mechanical keyboards. That is, there is a lead-in to the [very noticeable] tactile bump, which is rounded with a definite beginning and end. You can choose to bottom-out the switch, or just skip onto the next one.

So you can hit your definite tactile bump while leading into it fairly smoothly. You do so without needing the large energy to overcome a giant, top-mounted tactile event as in the latest round of tactile switches. And you can repeat this keypress over and over again, very quickly, without tiring.

I'm typing on Ergo Clears right now, and even though these ones have an actuation weight 5 gr higher than I would prefer, I still type on them about 3 WPM faster than on MX Browns.

If properly-lubed, the Ergo Clears won't be excessively scratchy, and will even have a semi-thocky sound. So they are an 'acceptable' Cherry tactile switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: RominRonin on Sun, 19 April 2020, 15:38:25

If properly-lubed, the Ergo Clears won't be excessively scratchy, and will even have a semi-thocky sound. So they are an 'acceptable' Cherry tactile switch.
Music to my ears - what’s your lubing process of choice for ergo clears?

Should we take this discussion to a new thread?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sun, 19 April 2020, 18:34:17
PM Sent.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 20 April 2020, 07:32:25
Bi-monthly opinion reminder that I don't like alps, and I love Cherry browns.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mpro on Tue, 21 April 2020, 19:38:24
My unpopular opinion is that there is some validity to finding a decent gaming switch. I'm in search of something as responsive as MX silvers, but without the faster activation (1.3mm) and shallower key fee.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: flurryvelvet on Wed, 22 April 2020, 00:29:08
ALPS SKCL switches are more tactile than Cherry MX Browns.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Wed, 22 April 2020, 08:49:13
ALPS SKCL switches are more tactile than Cherry MX Browns.  :thumb:
That's not an opinion, that's a fact :p .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 22 April 2020, 09:14:19
My unpopular opinion is that there is some validity to finding a decent gaming switch. I'm in search of something as responsive as MX silvers, but without the faster activation (1.3mm) and shallower key fee.

So, Cherry MX red? Is that actually an unpopular opinion though? I know some crazy people game with Model Ms. I think the most tactile thing I would ever use is box whites, unless I ever experience a tactile (other than Alps) that I like. As much as I love my clickies, I don't know that I would want a bunch of clicking going on as I played something. I would like something that falls more between reds and blacks myself. Reds are too light if you ask me, and blacks are too heavy for a linear.

ALPS SKCL switches are more tactile than Cherry MX Browns.  :thumb:
That's not an opinion, that's a fact :p .

Let's not antagonize poor Dale. I do agree though, if they're a little dirty.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: logo4poop on Thu, 23 April 2020, 13:12:24
For what it is, GMK sets are pretty well priced.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: typo on Fri, 24 April 2020, 09:34:59
I am going to go against the grain here and defend what I feel is a highly underrated keyboard of any kind. Topre/HHKB! My favorite board in the world. So much so I spent $$$ making cases and modding the heck out of them. Now there is absolutely nothing that can be complained about IMO!

Edited. there is one issue with Topre and cherry stems and GMK caps I mentioned elsewhere. Very stiff. I keep typing "I" and end up with "i" upsetting. completely ruins my WPM to go back and fix all that. I do not understand why it is only the "I" key? How odd.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 24 April 2020, 09:57:37
I am going to go against the grain here and defend what I feel is a highly underrated keyboard of any kind. Topre/HHKB! My favorite board in the world. So much so I spent $$$ making cases and modding the heck out of them. Now there is absolutely nothing that can be complained about IMO!

Edited. there is one issue with Topre and cherry stems and GMK caps I mentioned elsewhere. Very stiff. I keep typing "I" and end up with "i" upsetting. completely ruins my WPM to go back and fix all that. I do not understand why it is only the "I" key? How odd.

Isn't there a lot of love for Topre and the HHKB layout? It seems to me that that's actually a very popular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: typo on Fri, 24 April 2020, 15:45:48
It seems like people are hating on them now?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 24 April 2020, 16:03:37
It seems like people are hating on them now?

Maybe, but a lot of people like them too. I would say that it can be divisive. A lot of people seem to love HHKB, as there's a market built just around the layout, and a lot of people find it intolerable. I think the same is the case for Topre, although to a lesser degree, since Topre seems to kind of fit into a niche that many would never have any interest in to begin with, whether or not they would even like or dislike them for their intrinsic pros and cons.

I don't know how that would only happen with i, unless, being that you say it is due to stiffness, and that you're a touch typist, how about if you try the * symbol by pressing shift and 8, with your middle finger? It sounds to me like you use the right shift key, and may be stretching to reach both the shift key and the i key with the same hand and may not be registering both.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: heyitsqi on Fri, 24 April 2020, 20:09:22
Ergodox's need to have a stabilized thumb cluster or make it smaller.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: typo on Fri, 24 April 2020, 22:57:56
Your right mal'. Use the left shift? It is too far away? Or use the lock? I do not understand shift and "*"? It renders just that, not "I". I think it is the actuation. I am making many mistypes now. AFAIK there is no way to tell what actuation point you are on? Sorry for OT.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 24 April 2020, 23:27:53
Your right mal'. Use the left shift? It is too far away? Or use the lock? I do not understand shift and "*"? It renders just that, not "I". I think it is the actuation. I am making many mistypes now. AFAIK there is no way to tell what actuation point you are on? Sorry for OT.

Shift and the 8 key, in the alphanumeric cluster, which should result in *. Do you usually use the left or right shift? My guess was the right, and that you're stretching your right hand across the board to reach far-reaching keys while simultaneously trying to capitalize them with the right shift key. If you're indeed using right shift, just take a moment and look at how spread out your fingers might be, and at what angle, when reaching for i, 8, etc, and right shift at the same time. It makes me wonder that, in conjunction with very stiff keys, you may not be actuating shift once you do actuate i, resulting in a lower case i when you meant for it to be upper case.

Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: typo on Sat, 25 April 2020, 02:45:52
Isn't the right shift closer to 'I" than the left? I do not get it? Indeed If I type "finger style" like someone that does not know how to type I hit It every single time! It is me not actuating it! plus I am misfiring other words as well! Do you know how you tell what Actuation point you are on too? So I should be using the left shift? That is complete re-learn after 60+ years! Not going to be easy! Since I am used to 170 WPM. Now due to correcting typo's(no pun intended) I am only pulling 90 WPM! Huge difference! Either these caps go or I have to go MX unfortunately. You may be aware I will not take a pic of my board do to property copy right reasons but you should see this. I love this so much. I would hate to give this up. This is my Grail. I know it does not have an "actual" value but I would part with it for $65,000. Not kidding. Not because I just don't want to sell it either. I have that much parts and labor into it! Please do not start walie. Just leave me alone for once. I am mostly counting research and labor here. i do have really 8 grand of parts into it amazingly.  With the computer i had 100% intention of returning that. It really was spec'd that way but I had no intent whatsoever of that being my computer. i just wanted highest benchmark.

So I just need to know two things. 1, I use the left shift?
2, how do I know which actuation i am on?

OH, I get it! Left shift with left hand and I with right hand. Duh! I am so stupid. I was just stretching my hand. I am a freaking idiot! Could you imagine me with a split board LOL.
Now I just need to figure out actuation point. I figure how about read manual, double duh! I win the Idiot award this morning! At least I am on the way to typing even faster thanks to you!
Thank you!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 27 April 2020, 11:14:08
Partly so as to not completely derail this topic, but also because it came up in another thread anyway, I have one more potentially unpopular keyboard opinion:

Who cares if a metal case is cast or machined? One just objectively costs more money to do, and doesn't necessary result in a product of any higher quality.

Isn't the right shift closer to 'I" than the left? I do not get it? Indeed If I type "finger style" like someone that does not know how to type I hit It every single time! It is me not actuating it! plus I am misfiring other words as well! Do you know how you tell what Actuation point you are on too? So I should be using the left shift? That is complete re-learn after 60+ years! Not going to be easy! Since I am used to 170 WPM. Now due to correcting typo's(no pun intended) I am only pulling 90 WPM! Huge difference! Either these caps go or I have to go MX unfortunately. You may be aware I will not take a pic of my board do to property copy right reasons but you should see this. I love this so much. I would hate to give this up. This is my Grail. I know it does not have an "actual" value but I would part with it for $65,000. Not kidding. Not because I just don't want to sell it either. I have that much parts and labor into it! Please do not start walie. Just leave me alone for once. I am mostly counting research and labor here. i do have really 8 grand of parts into it amazingly.  With the computer i had 100% intention of returning that. It really was spec'd that way but I had no intent whatsoever of that being my computer. i just wanted highest benchmark.

So I just need to know two things. 1, I use the left shift?
2, how do I know which actuation i am on?

OH, I get it! Left shift with left hand and I with right hand. Duh! I am so stupid. I was just stretching my hand. I am a freaking idiot! Could you imagine me with a split board LOL.
Now I just need to figure out actuation point. I figure how about read manual, double duh! I win the Idiot award this morning! At least I am on the way to typing even faster thanks to you!
Thank you!

I believe you got what I meant, and that it was in fact the case. Just to be sure, here's a picture of what I meant:

[attachimg=1]

I type the same way, if that's what was happening. That's not normally a problem for me. I could see it being a problem if the keys were very stiff. I'm not saying to type any other way, just providing a possible explanation. With Topre, you can just swap the domes for something a bit lighter right? Maybe swap the domes for the modifier keys and be done with it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clankgy1 on Mon, 27 April 2020, 12:02:36
I am going to go against the grain here and defend what I feel is a highly underrated keyboard of any kind. Topre/HHKB! My favorite board in the world. So much so I spent $$$ making cases and modding the heck out of them. Now there is absolutely nothing that can be complained about IMO!

Edited. there is one issue with Topre and cherry stems and GMK caps I mentioned elsewhere. Very stiff. I keep typing "I" and end up with "i" upsetting. completely ruins my WPM to go back and fix all that. I do not understand why it is only the "I" key? How odd.

Isn't there a lot of love for Topre and the HHKB layout? It seems to me that that's actually a very popular opinion.

I'm not sure one could find much disagreement about the stock feel of HHKB topre within the communuity.  Sure, people swap domes and lube them but they are doing so starting with a very solid foundation.

They are not perfect by any means, and I got rid of both of the ones I had for a few reasons:

- Layout issues - Putting the delete key where I am used to the pipe key was something I could not overcome.  More times than not, I would clip the return key while trying to backspace, and that was bad news for me as I spend a lot of time doing IM and Slack/Discord things for work and pleasure, where hitting return is a submit function.  Also, two 1.5u UI keys were completely unnecessary for my uses.

- Lack of remap - Sure one could put a Hasu controller in, but I had no interest in cracking open either one of my HHKBs apart as I had problems getting my Novatouch reassembled when trying to put silencing rings in it.

- Mini-USB - I hate this connector with a passion.

I've gone back to using a HHKB form factor with remapped keys on my Tokyo60.  Remaps/macros/layer changes are much easier as it supports VIA (and even QMK isn't that bad once I flashed the board a few times with it).  And 9009 had all the caps I needed to make my desired adjustments.  And it is USB-C!

(http://i.imgur.com/JjBaAlx.jpg) (https://imgur.com/JjBaAlx)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Fri, 01 May 2020, 09:51:54
You don't reach to the Zen of keyboarding until you can type absolutely accurate and quiet. Modding your keyboard is good only if it helps you mod yourself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 01 May 2020, 15:20:33
You don't reach to the Zen of keyboarding until you can type absolutely accurate and quiet. Modding your keyboard is good only if it helps you mod yourself.

I like clickies, so I'm doomed to never attain nirvana?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Sun, 03 May 2020, 04:51:15
You don't reach to the Zen of keyboarding until you can type absolutely accurate and quiet. Modding your keyboard is good only if it helps you mod yourself.

I like clickies, so I'm doomed to never attain nirvana?

If you hear only the click, not the sound of bottom out or the lift, you're already (or almost) there.

Actually trying to be gentle in typing forces me to concentrate. On every keystroke. And I find it easier on linear keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Polymer on Tue, 05 May 2020, 23:11:30
You don't reach to the Zen of keyboarding until you can type absolutely accurate and quiet. Modding your keyboard is good only if it helps you mod yourself.

I like clickies, so I'm doomed to never attain nirvana?

If you hear only the click, not the sound of bottom out or the lift, you're already (or almost) there.

Actually trying to be gentle in typing forces me to concentrate. On every keystroke. And I find it easier on linear keyboards.

You must be typing slow like that then..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dusan on Wed, 06 May 2020, 14:02:08
You don't reach to the Zen of keyboarding until you can type absolutely accurate and quiet. Modding your keyboard is good only if it helps you mod yourself.

I like clickies, so I'm doomed to never attain nirvana?

If you hear only the click, not the sound of bottom out or the lift, you're already (or almost) there.

Actually trying to be gentle in typing forces me to concentrate. On every keystroke. And I find it easier on linear keyboards.

You must be typing slow like that then..

It's similar to driving a car. Once you're smooth, you'll be accurate. Once you're accurate, you'll go fast.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Wed, 06 May 2020, 20:05:59
Unpopular opinion:

The only reason rubber domes are bad is because they mush when you bottom out. I bottom out on every single keyboard I have ever used, and I like it. In fact, that's basically half the reason to even own a keyboard.

I would absolutely type with a highly tactile rubber dome that set off small nuclear bombs every time you bottom out. Like someone should hook up one of those old beamsprings with a solenoid to an HP piece of **** and I'm all over it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Polymer on Wed, 06 May 2020, 22:49:33
You don't reach to the Zen of keyboarding until you can type absolutely accurate and quiet. Modding your keyboard is good only if it helps you mod yourself.

I like clickies, so I'm doomed to never attain nirvana?

If you hear only the click, not the sound of bottom out or the lift, you're already (or almost) there.

Actually trying to be gentle in typing forces me to concentrate. On every keystroke. And I find it easier on linear keyboards.

You must be typing slow like that then..

It's similar to driving a car. Once you're smooth, you'll be accurate. Once you're accurate, you'll go fast.

Wrong...Not bottoming out means you're giving up speed...

Prove me wrong.  Video you typing into the 100wpms without bottoming out.  I've seen people lightly bottom out but anyone on the journey to not bottoming out at all is giving up speed.  That's a fact..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 07 May 2020, 05:16:43
I took delivery of some nice clean SKCL greens today, they are indeed more tactile than browns!

Pleasantly surprised by how nice and different they are to linearised pine alps, the spring feels quite different.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 07 May 2020, 12:44:22
I took delivery of some nice clean SKCL greens today, they are indeed more tactile than browns!

Pleasantly surprised by how nice and different they are to linearised pine alps, the spring feels quite different.

Wonderful, aren't they? I still feel that resurrecting complicated Alps would eventually kill MX (in the consumer market anyway), once caps, boards, etc, etc, became more common. With all of these wonderful new switch mechanisms coming out though, maybe it won't be very long before there are better options in all categories.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheesy_jones on Thu, 07 May 2020, 14:01:50
I took delivery of some nice clean SKCL greens today, they are indeed more tactile than browns!

Pleasantly surprised by how nice and different they are to linearised pine alps, the spring feels quite different.

Wonderful, aren't they? I still feel that resurrecting complicated Alps would eventually kill MX (in the consumer market anyway), once caps, boards, etc, etc, became more common. With all of these wonderful new switch mechanisms coming out though, maybe it won't be very long before there are better options in all categories.

I am totally on board with that, but at the same time I am skeptical of that scenario. I am skeptical because so-called "Wintel" PCs beat Mac hardware back in the day for almost the same reason Cherry MX is winning now: they are everywhere, they are "good enough," and the clones are cheap. Jeez, a $50 Chinese board is not a bad value proposition, and you know it comes with Kaihl browns or, if we're getting crazy, some clicky blue switch or something. The keycap market alone will keep the Cherry mount viable for the next well, forever, if you ask me.

How about Alps-based switches with Cherry mounts? Now we're starting to have fun.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 07 May 2020, 14:07:24
I don't really expect complicated alps to ever come back as much as we'd like them to, and it's for that reason that I've built up a hoard of various switches to last me a lifetime. They're just too complicated and the risk and cost of remanufacturing them and living up to the originals is just too great.

It's certainly an unpopular opinion but I fully take matias refusal to ever do it as evidence that it'll never happen. The commercial barrier to entry is just too great.

Happy to be proven wrong, and for my stash of switches to become worthless if cheap better alps recreations become available, but I can't see it happening.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 07 May 2020, 14:49:31
I took delivery of some nice clean SKCL greens today, they are indeed more tactile than browns!

Pleasantly surprised by how nice and different they are to linearised pine alps, the spring feels quite different.

Wonderful, aren't they? I still feel that resurrecting complicated Alps would eventually kill MX (in the consumer market anyway), once caps, boards, etc, etc, became more common. With all of these wonderful new switch mechanisms coming out though, maybe it won't be very long before there are better options in all categories.

I am totally on board with that, but at the same time I am skeptical of that scenario. I am skeptical because so-called "Wintel" PCs beat Mac hardware back in the day for almost the same reason Cherry MX is winning now: they are everywhere, they are "good enough," and the clones are cheap. Jeez, a $50 Chinese board is not a bad value proposition, and you know it comes with Kaihl browns or, if we're getting crazy, some clicky blue switch or something. The keycap market alone will keep the Cherry mount viable for the next well, forever, if you ask me.

How about Alps-based switches with Cherry mounts? Now we're starting to have fun.

Those Chinesium boards usually suck though (though there are exceptions). Great for the price, not great in other categories. Windows systems vs Intel Macs isn't a great example either, since the hardware was often equivalent ... or even identical, just some were paying significantly more for the Apple logo and operating system which wasn't necessarily any better than Windows. If you're talking PPC, then they sometimes had better hardware, but the difference in performance still certainly was not worth the difference in price. Apple will never compete in that regard because their profit margins have always been high. Then there's the fact that Apple cripples their hardware with planned obsolesce in order to sell the next new thing, and operates within an extremely restrictive closed ecosystem, intentionally. Entirely different scenario.

From what I have always read, the Alps design makes having Cherry cap stems without altering the feel of the switch just about impossible. I don't think that's really a major sticking point. The switches speak for themselves. An ancient Leading Edge DC-2014 with a weird AT-like layout and yellowed case and caps is unquestionably preferable to me to the blingiest MX board available. The design is better to a degree that the aesthetics should be irrelevant. The bling can come later.

I don't really expect complicated alps to ever come back as much as we'd like them to, and it's for that reason that I've built up a hoard of various switches to last me a lifetime. They're just too complicated and the risk and cost of remanufacturing them and living up to the originals is just too great.

It's certainly an unpopular opinion but I fully take matias refusal to ever do it as evidence that it'll never happen. The commercial barrier to entry is just too great.

Happy to be proven wrong, and for my stash of switches to become worthless if cheap better alps recreations become available, but I can't see it happening.

I don't know that I would want Matias to be the ones to do it anyway, so that works for me. There's risk and cost in everything that has any chance at success. Ellipse resurrected capacitive buckling spring, and did a fine job at it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 07 May 2020, 15:09:06
I don't know that I would want Matias to be the ones to do it anyway, so that works for me. There's risk and cost in everything that has any chance at success. Ellipse resurrected capacitive buckling spring, and did a fine job at it.

Buckling springs are a fair bit simpler than complicated alps, I'd love to be wrong, but there's just too big an investment in tooling imo.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 07 May 2020, 15:35:16
I don't know that I would want Matias to be the ones to do it anyway, so that works for me. There's risk and cost in everything that has any chance at success. Ellipse resurrected capacitive buckling spring, and did a fine job at it.

Buckling springs are a fair bit simpler than complicated alps, I'd love to be wrong, but there's just too big an investment in tooling imo.

The mechanism is simpler, the materials aren't cheap though, and you can't just make a buckling spring switch, he had to recreate the entire board. Not entirely equivalent, of course, but it should still be a good example.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheesy_jones on Thu, 07 May 2020, 15:38:31

Those Chinesium boards usually suck though (though there are exceptions). Great for the price, not great in other categories. Windows systems vs Intel Macs isn't a great example either, since the hardware was often equivalent ... or even identical, just some were paying significantly more for the Apple logo and operating system which wasn't necessarily any better than Windows. If you're talking PPC, then they sometimes had better hardware, but the difference in performance still certainly was not worth the difference in price. Apple will never compete in that regard because their profit margins have always been high. Then there's the fact that Apple cripples their hardware with planned obsolesce in order to sell the next new thing, and operates within an extremely restrictive closed ecosystem, intentionally. Entirely different scenario.

On another board we could have a very lively discussion about the extent of our disagreement about the value proposition of Apple hardware vs. PC/Windows machines in the 80s and 90s. You are misguided, sir!

Anyway, I think to ignore that inexpensive Chinese hardware is a mistake. Unpopular opinion stated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 07 May 2020, 15:46:17

Those Chinesium boards usually suck though (though there are exceptions). Great for the price, not great in other categories. Windows systems vs Intel Macs isn't a great example either, since the hardware was often equivalent ... or even identical, just some were paying significantly more for the Apple logo and operating system which wasn't necessarily any better than Windows. If you're talking PPC, then they sometimes had better hardware, but the difference in performance still certainly was not worth the difference in price. Apple will never compete in that regard because their profit margins have always been high. Then there's the fact that Apple cripples their hardware with planned obsolesce in order to sell the next new thing, and operates within an extremely restrictive closed ecosystem, intentionally. Entirely different scenario.

On another board we could have a very lively discussion about the extent of our disagreement about the value proposition of Apple hardware vs. PC/Windows machines in the 80s and 90s. You are misguided, sir!

Anyway, I think to ignore that inexpensive Chinese hardware is a mistake. Unpopular opinion stated.

80s and 90s I can't comment on. I wasn't even alive until the final days of the 1980s, much less into computers yet. I do know that if you're going as far back as the 70s and 80s, Apple did have their moments for capable hardware.

I don't ignore inexpensive Chinese hardware, in fact, I love it. I prefer the typing experience of some cheap Outemu blue boards I have to boards that cost 3x as much with MX blues. I don't particularly like either though, which was the point that I was making. $50 mechanicals are great for the price, if even only as an introduction, but they're not something I would choose over alternatives that cost marginally more.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 07 May 2020, 15:59:31
I don't know that I would want Matias to be the ones to do it anyway, so that works for me. There's risk and cost in everything that has any chance at success. Ellipse resurrected capacitive buckling spring, and did a fine job at it.

Buckling springs are a fair bit simpler than complicated alps, I'd love to be wrong, but there's just too big an investment in tooling imo.

The mechanism is simpler, the materials aren't cheap though, and you can't just make a buckling spring switch, he had to recreate the entire board. Not entirely equivalent, of course, but it should still be a good example.

Not trying to downplay his incredible achievement btw, can't wait for ours to turn up once the dye subbing is done.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 07 May 2020, 16:19:14
Not trying to downplay his incredible achievement btw, can't wait for ours to turn up once the dye subbing is done.

I did a low/custom serial number option and unprinted caps just because it was said they would get bumped to the front of the stack. That F77 is still out in the ether. I found one on Ebay though, and it is wonderful. I'm using it now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:20:11
I'm sure it's been mentioned in this massive thread already, but I've been reading switch reviews again and keep coming across the attitude of "the only proper way to type is without bottoming out" which is just so bloody condescending and annoying.

I enjoy bottoming out, it's simply a pleasant tactile sensation with all of my keyboards. In fact, I'm not even sure it's possible to type on bucking spring without bottoming out- perhaps it is, but it would be extremely annoying.

Some people bottom out, and apparently some people don't. Really no idea why someone would insist that there is only One True Way to type. It's like insisting that only Dvorak, DSA, or TKL are 'right' and that everything else is therefore 'wrong'.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:27:54
Yeah, I mean that was literally the conversation we were having just now. Hahaha.

What keyboard reviews btw say there's a proper way to type? I hate that crap. That's the kind of stuff I like geekhack for. Very much a forum for those who just like keyboards and like what they like and nobody cares.

As for typing on buckling spring without bottoming out, yes it's possible. I have discovered, despite my typical protestation, that I don't bottom out on some keys I type on my right hand with my Model M, or I do it so softly so to not notice it even when trying to feel it. I typically don't bottom out on the backspace key, for example. Hard to believe since the actuation point is so close to the bottom out point and the tactility is such that one would expect it, but here we are.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:40:26
Yeah, I mean that was literally the conversation we were having just now. Hahaha.

What keyboard reviews btw say there's a proper way to type? I hate that crap. That's the kind of stuff I like geekhack for. Very much a forum for those who just like keyboards and like what they like and nobody cares.

As for typing on buckling spring without bottoming out, yes it's possible. I have discovered, despite my typical protestation, that I don't bottom out on some keys I type on my right hand with my Model M, or I do it so softly so to not notice it even when trying to feel it. I typically don't bottom out on the backspace key, for example. Hard to believe since the actuation point is so close to the bottom out point and the tactility is such that one would expect it, but here we are.

I was just reading a review of Hako Clears. The writer freely admits that he bottoms out, that a lot of people bottom out, but that the 'proper' way to type is to avoid bottoming out, and that certain switches are designed to help people type 'properly'.

I've come across a surprising number of keyboard enthusiasts over the years (I work in tech), and whilst we have talked about, compared, and lent each other boards, not once do I recall ever talking about whether the 'correct' way to type involves bottoming out switches. I have probably mentioned something along the lines of not liking Clears or Blacks because I prefer to bottom out, but that would have been the extent of it.

This is the specific example, but I've seen this argued one way then other on GH as well.

https://topclack.com/textclack/2017/11/27/input-clubs-hako-clear-switch-review-by-quakemz

Hm, you're right about it being more nuanced on a board though. I just realised that I don't bottom out on certain keys. Backspace, or spacebar but only if I'm going to hit it a bunch of times in a row.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Mon, 11 May 2020, 05:20:10
I can’t say for Hako Clears since I haven’t tried them, but I've used plenty of stock MX Clears and usually don’t bottom out with them, mostly since they’re designed to do that, in addition to my typing technique being rather refined. And when using my Hako True board, it’s actually hard to bottom out since the force increases so rapidly after actuation.
Not bottoming out seems extremely difficult on standard switches that have linear force increases, and rather pointless considering there’s not a significant difference in force between actuation/bottoming. It’s much more achievable on switches where the increase is more exponential or just very heavy in general.  If you’re typing at any decent pace on MX Greens or other 70g+ switches and bottoming out on every press it’ll really wear your fingers. Hence, it took quite some time to becoming accustomed to Trues but after doing so, typing on them is very pleasant (still not as good for typing as Topre or Clears, I’ve found).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 11 May 2020, 08:49:47
I'm sure it's been mentioned in this massive thread already, but I've been reading switch reviews again and keep coming across the attitude of "the only proper way to type is without bottoming out" which is just so bloody condescending and annoying.

Yeah, that's just nonsense. Ignore it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 11 May 2020, 16:19:05
I'm sure it's been mentioned in this massive thread already, but I've been reading switch reviews again and keep coming across the attitude of "the only proper way to type is without bottoming out" which is just so bloody condescending and annoying.

I enjoy bottoming out, it's simply a pleasant tactile sensation with all of my keyboards. In fact, I'm not even sure it's possible to type on bucking spring without bottoming out- perhaps it is, but it would be extremely annoying.

Some people bottom out, and apparently some people don't. Really no idea why someone would insist that there is only One True Way to type. It's like insisting that only Dvorak, DSA, or TKL are 'right' and that everything else is therefore 'wrong'.

I don't know where this started but people got it in their head that you're not supposed to bottom out..and that the tactile bump for a switch was there to tell you fingers when to stop so you could react and stop bottoming out...It is all BS.

If you want to type without bottoming out, you can do that..and plenty of people do but I think people have to keep in mind, they're giving up speed in doing so. 

The number of crazy ways people have learned to type so they wouldn't bottom out is shocking and while they can do whatever works best for them, I certainly would not want to give up a huge amount of speed to attain someone's else's ideal typing style. 

Sure, there are benefits to not bottoming out super hard and trying to go as lightly as you need but anytime anyone says the right way to type is not to bottom out or you type faster if you do, I just have to laugh because it is absolutely untrue.

Fortunately, there are fewer people saying this right now....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 11 May 2020, 17:00:25
If you’re typing at any decent pace on MX Greens or other 70g+ switches and bottoming out on every press it’ll really wear your fingers. Hence, it took quite some time to becoming accustomed to Trues but after doing so, typing on them is very pleasant (still not as good for typing as Topre or Clears, I’ve found).

I bottom out with box navies, and type pretty fast. That's never bothered me with a 90g bottom out. I actually find it easier on my fingers with heavier switches than lighter ones, at least until I adjust to the lighter ones.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 11 May 2020, 17:16:58
If you’re typing at any decent pace on MX Greens or other 70g+ switches and bottoming out on every press it’ll really wear your fingers. Hence, it took quite some time to becoming accustomed to Trues but after doing so, typing on them is very pleasant (still not as good for typing as Topre or Clears, I’ve found).

I bottom out with box navies, and type pretty fast. That's never bothered me with a 90g bottom out. I actually find it easier on my fingers with heavier switches than lighter ones, at least until I adjust to the lighter ones.

Yeah..and greens take a significant amount of force just to overcome the bump....the bottom out force is only slightly more than the bump. 

And I agree, bottoming out on heavier switches is actually easier on your hands..heavier switches in general take more energy and will tire you out if you're not used to them..but heavier switches tend to resist bottoming out more as well....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Mon, 11 May 2020, 20:45:39
I don't agree, it physically doesn't make sense that using more force would be better on your fingers. Gaming in general is a chore on heavy switches, as is typing; I'm not even sure what the appeal of them is. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Mon, 11 May 2020, 21:11:25
The same appeal of using a normal switch at all as opposed to you just mashing on a 5g rubber dome with your fingers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Mon, 11 May 2020, 23:42:19
If you don't know what you're talking about, don't reply.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Polymer on Tue, 12 May 2020, 00:25:46
I don't agree, it physically doesn't make sense that using more force would be better on your fingers. Gaming in general is a chore on heavy switches, as is typing; I'm not even sure what the appeal of them is.

More force in general to use the switch..but the amount of net force you hit bottom with is probably less given the higher weight to achieve that.....That's how I interpreted what he said given what he said about light switches, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bonsa on Tue, 12 May 2020, 04:30:03
ortho is the future
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Tue, 12 May 2020, 05:01:09
ortho is the future
People will stop using physical keyboards before that day xD .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 12 May 2020, 08:50:22
I don't agree, it physically doesn't make sense that using more force would be better on your fingers. Gaming in general is a chore on heavy switches, as is typing; I'm not even sure what the appeal of them is.

More force in general to use the switch..but the amount of net force you hit bottom with is probably less given the higher weight to achieve that.....That's how I interpreted what he said given what he said about light switches, but I could be wrong.

Correct. You're counteracting the force of the spring (and tactile event with clickies and tactiles). The overall weight of the switch is irrelevant if all we're talking about is the effect of bottoming out hard. When I go back to MX reds, I slam the plate hard, with more force than I even expect, and I have noticed discomfort as a result. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't think that I could even manage to forcefully bottom out box navies in a normal typing position. By the time I hit the plate, the impact is actually quite light.

I think this just comes down to adjusting to the switches that you're using, and I agree when people say that heavier switches (somewhat counteracted by stiffer tactility) actually usually make it easier to prevent bottoming out at all, although such a goal is entirely arbitrary.

Gaming in general is a chore on heavy switches, as is typing; I'm not even sure what the appeal of them is. 

That much I do agree with, besides the fact that it would possibly break immersion. I use MX reds for gaming, though that's only because I don't care so much about having something better in a gaming board.

ortho is the future
People will stop using physical keyboards before that day xD .

Yeah, I don't see that happening either. It seems at odds with the natural movement of a human being's fingers. What do I know though? I'll probably never try one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: arock0627 on Tue, 12 May 2020, 11:55:19
I'm sure it's been mentioned in this massive thread already, but I've been reading switch reviews again and keep coming across the attitude of "the only proper way to type is without bottoming out" which is just so bloody condescending and annoying.

Yeah, that's just nonsense. Ignore it.

How does one properly THOCK without bottoming out?

Insanity, I tells ya.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 17 May 2020, 08:25:45
You don't need more sets of keycaps than you have keyboards.




Backstory- I recently discovered a totally unused and forgotten JTK Sophomore set stashed in storage. 4 years later I look at it and wonder what I was thinking at the time. On any one of my boards, I have kept the original caps, or changed them at most once.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 18 May 2020, 10:17:01
You don't need more sets of keycaps than you have keyboards.

Agreed. I usually, at least so far, leave whatever garbage came on a board or swap them out once to better compliment the characteristics of the switches and/or looks of the case.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Mon, 18 May 2020, 10:20:02
I have 2 sets of keycaps for the Cherry MX boards. Both are SA. Both are on boards. When a new board enters rotation, those keycaps go on the new board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alphabirth on Tue, 19 May 2020, 09:46:54
I prefer the feeling of typing on light switches with o-rings, as it makes it feel a little more squishy when I bottom out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sepharis on Tue, 19 May 2020, 14:12:54
I only ever use my left shift key to alt + tab on steam, I'd much rather WKL boards just cut the left shift  ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 19 May 2020, 14:25:37
I only ever use my left shift key to alt + tab on steam, I'd much rather WKL boards just cut the left shift  ;D

I would almost agree, but left shift is pretty useful for sprinting, etc, in some games as well, and various other hotkeys. Otherwise, with normal typing, I never use it either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sepharis on Tue, 19 May 2020, 15:26:26
Quote
I would almost agree, but left shift is pretty useful for sprinting, etc, in some games as well, and various other hotkeys. Otherwise, with normal typing, I never use it either.

I never really played MMOs growing up, I started PC gaming with a MOBA so I sat my hand on qwer + spacebar, as such I found the wad+shift position awkward and uncomfortable, so whenever I play games with sprinting as shift i either re-map it to f or a mouse button.

In fact in FF XIV I used software to make my mouse buttons Toggle shift and Alt for more spell usage
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 19 May 2020, 15:30:58
Quote
I would almost agree, but left shift is pretty useful for sprinting, etc, in some games as well, and various other hotkeys. Otherwise, with normal typing, I never use it either.

I never really played MMOs growing up, I started PC gaming with a MOBA so I sat my hand on qwer + spacebar, as such I found the wad+shift position awkward and uncomfortable, so whenever I play games with sprinting as shift i either re-map it to f or a mouse button.

In fact in FF XIV I used software to make my mouse buttons Toggle shift and Alt for more spell usage

I hate MMOs. I don't play them. How many MMOs even have sprint? I imagine it wouldn't be a majority. Shift has been the standard sprint key in all genres for decades. Never even heard of qwer + spacebar, but I don't play MOBAs either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sepharis on Wed, 20 May 2020, 05:01:14

Quote
I hate MMOs. I don't play them. How many MMOs even have sprint? I imagine it wouldn't be a majority. Shift has been the standard shift key in all genres for decades. Never even heard of qwer + spacebar, but I don't play MOBAs either.

No, No I meant that MMOs using shift as a modifier is a requirement, so the default hand placement is AWD + Shift. Which is where I think most people learned it from, based on talking to friends.
In MOBAs the spells by default are either on qwer or 1234, the natural hand position one would acquire if they simply attempted to put their 4 fingers on those keys would align the thumb with spacebar.
Having said all this my first game was a MOBA and I didn't play a PC game until I was 18 so maybe I'm a weird exception
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 20 May 2020, 08:39:51

Quote
I hate MMOs. I don't play them. How many MMOs even have sprint? I imagine it wouldn't be a majority. Shift has been the standard shift key in all genres for decades. Never even heard of qwer + spacebar, but I don't play MOBAs either.

No, No I meant that MMOs using shift as a modifier is a requirement, so the default hand placement is AWD + Shift. Which is where I think most people learned it from, based on talking to friends.
In MOBAs the spells by default are either on qwer or 1234, the natural hand position one would acquire if they simply attempted to put their 4 fingers on those keys would align the thumb with spacebar.
Having said all this my first game was a MOBA and I didn't play a PC game until I was 18 so maybe I'm a weird exception

The vast majority of games that are not a point and click (are a significant percentage of MOBAs point and click?) use WASD for movement, and if there's a sprint function in the game, that's almost always mapped to shift. If we were talking about using a modern console controller, it would be like removing one of your analogue sticks entirely, which is a no go in just about all first person games, and most third person games that aren't just an overhead view, point and click. There's a reason, with the popularity of 3D titles, that the second analogue stick showed up on the Playstation's dual analog controller in the 1990s, and never left. F is already usually melee/knife.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Thu, 21 May 2020, 13:51:31
You don't need more sets of keycaps than you have keyboards.




Backstory- I recently discovered a totally unused and forgotten JTK Sophomore set stashed in storage. 4 years later I look at it and wonder what I was thinking at the time. On any one of my boards, I have kept the original caps, or changed them at most once.

Agreed but there are so many nice keycap sets and I have to have them all  :eek: They are cheaper than boards too so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 22 May 2020, 01:15:18
Agreed but there are so many nice keycap sets and I have to have them all  :eek: They are cheaper than boards too so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hah, unless you've been spoiled by GMK quality :)  After my post about superfluous keycap sets, I was still tempted to look for a Honeywell set. Problem is, I know that any of the cheap Chinese sources are going to be a noticeable step down in quality from the GMK Carbon on the current board, and a replacement set from the same manufacturer is going to be $180 + international shipping.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 22 May 2020, 08:00:56
Quote
I would almost agree, but left shift is pretty useful for sprinting, etc, in some games as well, and various other hotkeys. Otherwise, with normal typing, I never use it either.

I never really played MMOs growing up, I started PC gaming with a MOBA so I sat my hand on qwer + spacebar, as such I found the wad+shift position awkward and uncomfortable, so whenever I play games with sprinting as shift i either re-map it to f or a mouse button.

In fact in FF XIV I used software to make my mouse buttons Toggle shift and Alt for more spell usage

Left ctrl is uncomfortable. Use z to crouch instead!  Also esdf or tfgh are a nice touch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sat, 23 May 2020, 12:31:12
Those copies of Honeywell are nothing near the real thing. I think the only company that could pull it off cheaply is Tai Hao. Although EnjoyABS could do it as a mid-priced set.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 23 May 2020, 12:42:10
Those copies of Honeywell are nothing near the real thing. I think the only company that could pull it off cheaply is Tai Hao. Although EnjoyABS could do it as a mid-priced set.

Huh, nice. Where'd you get yours (assuming your avatar is your board)?

Two of my three boards are populated with GMK and Tai Hao.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sat, 23 May 2020, 12:49:34
I got mine on Black Friday, 2018, from Originative.

It was the 2017 Set of the Year edition, so it had been sitting there for months, I guess. It was originally $199, but they bumped it down to $179 for BF. Still very expensive when you consider shipping to Canada + customs/duties/taxes.

Classic GMK quality, if you ask me. The keyfeel was perfect, the legends are crisp and extremely high-contrast, lettering is amazing.

I heard that some sets had trouble with QC. 'Burnt stems,' according to photos. But my stems are fine.

RN it's sitting on a Leopold that has Ergo Clears. It sounds very deep for a board with Cherry switches. Honeywell is such a striking set that it is actually distracting, though, so I have been switching to darker, lower-contrast sets.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 23 May 2020, 23:24:13
RN it's sitting on a Leopold that has Ergo Clears. It sounds very deep for a board with Cherry switches. Honeywell is such a striking set that it is actually distracting, though, so I have been switching to darker, lower-contrast sets.

I know what you mean. It looks gorgeous, but it's a bit too distracting for a generic office setup. My work board has Tai Hao Dolch on it. My ridiculously nice GMK Carbon set is being used on a kid's computer at home :/
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sun, 24 May 2020, 01:04:46
It looks gorgeous, but it's a bit too distracting for a generic office setup.

I use SA Dasher at work, people regularly paused when they came over to talk to me to be completely bowled over by how gorgeous the set is. No such thing as "too distracting" imo, people get used to it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: derpdederp on Sun, 24 May 2020, 07:07:05
  • I think the ergodox layout is sub-optimal and made even worse when the keyboard is properly tented.
  • I hate Model Ms.  I think they're overrated and mediocre feeling in comparison to MX, Alps, and Topre.  Model Fs are the only buckling spring boards worth using...and that includes the SSK being in play.
  • Alps>MX>Mathias Alps.  Mathias Alps, while not bad, just do not feel anywhere as nice as Green, Blue, or Orange Alps.  Even Salmon and dampened Cream Alps are nicer.
  • Orange Alps are as good as Topre and dramatically cheaper.  They're also easier to mod.
  • I think SA profile is literally the worst key cap profile I have ever tried.  I'd rather use slick and shiny halfway worn through SP DCS caps than an SA set.
  • I think 40% keyboards are silly and a gimmick that creates more work to use than it's worth.  I'd prefer to create a palm sized chorded keyboard and learn how to chord keys than use a 40%.
  • 75% keyboards provide an interesting middle ground between 60%, TKL, and fullsize, but I think every single one of them looks stupid and all have weird layouts.
  • Every keyboard should have a winkey.
  • Full sized keyboards should all be made with the num pad arrow keys, and so on on the left hand side.
  • Plate mounted Topre boards like Realforce and the FC660C are horrible feeling and you might as well just buy a rubber dome keyboard like a Dell Quietkey or DT-35 and mount it to a metal plate with a layer of insulation between the plate and the PCB.
  • I hate blank key caps.  They're like spinners on cars to me.

I had some more, but they're less about keyboards and more about how people treat keyboards and caps.  And this is unpopular opinions, so I expect a fair amount of disagreement.

Would be useful in this thread to add what you think is the best (switch/keyboard) - so we can contrast our experiences.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: derpdederp on Sun, 24 May 2020, 07:10:37
1. MX Brown/clear switches are worse than linear switches, and that's saying a lot because...
2. Linear switches are an unpleasant experience and they shouldn't exist.
3. Topre is overpriced and over hyped.
4. ABS as a keycap material is fine, even more so if they're doubleshot.
5. Full sized keyboards are the best.
6. "They don't make them like they used to." The standard build quality on vintage keyboards is better than 95% of the crap being mass produced today.
7. I'd rather have a CMStorm QFR than your $800 Korean TLK 'custom' riced-out kawaii whatever.

Bring on the hate ;D

Doesn't make sense considering the CMStorm QFR uses Cherry switches... So if 1&2 are both true, then what switch is the best. Confusing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sun, 24 May 2020, 14:03:00
1. MX Brown/clear switches are worse than linear switches, and that's saying a lot because...
2. Linear switches are an unpleasant experience and they shouldn't exist.
3. Topre is overpriced and over hyped.
4. ABS as a keycap material is fine, even more so if they're doubleshot.
5. Full sized keyboards are the best.
6. "They don't make them like they used to." The standard build quality on vintage keyboards is better than 95% of the crap being mass produced today.
7. I'd rather have a CMStorm QFR than your $800 Korean TLK 'custom' riced-out kawaii whatever.

Bring on the hate ;D

Doesn't make sense considering the CMStorm QFR uses Cherry switches... So if 1&2 are both true, then what switch is the best. Confusing.

I would guess the switches were replaced with something less mundane.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sun, 24 May 2020, 16:42:51


I know what you mean. It looks gorgeous, but it's a bit too distracting for a generic office setup. My work board has Tai Hao Dolch on it. My ridiculously nice GMK Carbon set is being used on a kid's computer at home :/

Yes, exactly. For me, it's not necessarily that it being a striking keyset is distracting, but the bright white alphas on a black board draw attention away from the screen. Other attractive colourways don't always present this problem.

As for Carbon, that's especially popular among gamers.



It looks gorgeous, but it's a bit too distracting for a generic office setup.

I use SA Dasher at work, people regularly paused when they came over to talk to me to be completely bowled over by how gorgeous the set is. No such thing as "too distracting" imo, people get used to it.

It's really the high-contrast of Honeywell that I found distracting. Ironically, I replaced Honeywell on one board with a Dasher/Dancer-inspired set, and it works fine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fliz on Sun, 24 May 2020, 17:21:07
I love my hhkb. The layout is perfect for vi.

I've owned mx brown and blue and enjoy the feel of the topre more.

If you're doing office work or gaming, I get why you may not like the layout, but for software development, it's perfect.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sun, 24 May 2020, 18:33:50
I love my hhkb. The layout is perfect for vi.

I've owned mx brown and blue and enjoy the feel of the topre more.

If you're doing office work or gaming, I get why you may not like the layout, but for software development, it's perfect.

I think that MX blue and brown are actually relatively unpopular switches once people explore other options, although they have their champions. I haven't tried Topre yet, but I imagine I would prefer that to them as well, although I'm not usually a tactile guy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fliz on Sun, 24 May 2020, 18:40:48
What would you say are the most popular? One online reviewer said neon green Alps were close in feel to the topre, but the actuation point was higher. They feel great, imo, but it's so rare to be able to try them out without forking over the cash.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sun, 24 May 2020, 19:02:05
What would you say are the most popular? One online reviewer said neon green Alps were close in feel to the topre, but the actuation point was higher. They feel great, imo, but it's so rare to be able to try them out without forking over the cash.

That depends on the type of switch.

For tactiles, probably Topre, Zealios (and variants), Holy Pandas, and MX clear (and modifications thereof). I'm sure I'm missing some, but we're talking the most popular after all.

For clickies, Kailh box thick clicks and Gateron MX clones, with even Outemu as a wild card. Not sure how Matias stacks up, but I would imagine that most would consider them better than MX blue as well, once compared. If we include vintage switches, since those are usually considered the best, then you're looking at IBM's beam spring, both buckling spring variants, and SKCM Alps. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more people on here using IBM Model Ms and Unicomps than genuine Cherry MX blues.

Speaking of which, I have some heresy to add to this thread: Matias switches feel and sound close enough to SKCM Alps to not matter. I could easily use them interchangeably with my SKCM and capacitive buckling spring boards, if it weren't for the chatter I have already experienced on a brand new board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Sun, 24 May 2020, 19:05:19
Speaking of which, I have some heresy to add to this thread: Matias switches feel and sound close enough to SKCM Alps to not matter. I could easily use them interchangeably with my SKCM and capacitive buckling spring boards, if it weren't for the chatter I have already experienced on a brand new board.

I'll double down on the heresy. I agree with you completely, except no chatter in my case.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Mon, 25 May 2020, 18:42:25
Speaking of which, I have some heresy to add to this thread: Matias switches feel and sound close enough to SKCM Alps to not matter. I could easily use them interchangeably with my SKCM and capacitive buckling spring boards, if it weren't for the chatter I have already experienced on a brand new board.

I'll double down on the heresy. I agree with you completely, except no chatter in my case.

Interesting. I've actually never tried them as I thought it wouldn't be worth it. This makes me want to give it a shot. Tbh, I'm still pretty skeptical  ^-^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 25 May 2020, 19:03:52
I hate the double bump of those Matias switches, feels awful. Not so bad on the linear (or tactile depending how you want to view them) switches but it feels like two distinct bumps on clicky/tactile.
I do not like them, Sam I Am. :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 25 May 2020, 19:13:33
Speaking of which, I have some heresy to add to this thread: Matias switches feel and sound close enough to SKCM Alps to not matter. I could easily use them interchangeably with my SKCM and capacitive buckling spring boards, if it weren't for the chatter I have already experienced on a brand new board.

I'll double down on the heresy. I agree with you completely, except no chatter in my case.

Interesting. I've actually never tried them as I thought it wouldn't be worth it. This makes me want to give it a shot. Tbh, I'm still pretty skeptical  ^-^

I don't blame you, so was I. I haven't had any chatter since the first half hour out of the box, so maybe that was a fluke.

I hate the double bump of those Matias switches, feels awful. Not so bad on the linear (or tactile depending how you want to view them) switches but it feels like two distinct bumps on clicky/tactile.
I do not like them, Sam I Am. :)

I think that I can just barely perceive what you mean, if I type a single key really slowly. You mean at the tail end of the upstroke? It seems to me that SKCM Alps have it too comparing them again, just that it is even more slight with Alps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Mon, 25 May 2020, 19:23:47
I think he means the initial tactility, and then, if you get near bottoming out there's a slight second tactile bump, less even than Browns. You normally plow right through it considering the first bump is so tactile. You kind of have to be looking for it to notice.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 25 May 2020, 19:26:33
I think he means the initial tactility, and then, if you get near bottoming out there's a slight second tactile bump, less even than Browns. You normally plow right through it considering the first bump is so tactile. You kind of have to be looking for it to notice.

I am looking for it, and I can't find it. Are we all talking about the clickies, or the dampened switches?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Mon, 25 May 2020, 19:47:58
Clickies. Unsure about dampened, but I think the click leaf is the same, just the slider is different, so I think it would have the same secondary tactile bump.

I literally do not know how to read these, but I think that these show it a little bit.

https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=15278
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 25 May 2020, 21:12:07
Clickies. Unsure about dampened, but I think the click leaf is the same, just the slider is different, so I think it would have the same secondary tactile bump.

I literally do not know how to read these, but I think that these show it a little bit.

https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=15278

I don't know how to read them either, honestly. All I feel is what feels like bottoming out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atarione on Tue, 26 May 2020, 01:19:06
I do not care how good a board is if it comes from the PRC I don't want it...

ROC , Korea.... anyplace other than china yes...  100% **** Chinese made boards....

100% **** china in general

Taiwan is not China...


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 26 May 2020, 10:08:14
I do not care how good a board is if it comes from the PRC I don't want it...

ROC , Korea.... anyplace other than china yes...  100% **** Chinese made boards....

100% **** china in general

Taiwan is not China...

I admire your stance, and I imagine that an inkling towards it, at least, is not unpopular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hyde on Tue, 26 May 2020, 12:10:38
I do not care how good a board is if it comes from the PRC I don't want it...

ROC , Korea.... anyplace other than china yes...  100% **** Chinese made boards....

100% **** china in general

Taiwan is not China...




lol I generally don't want to bring political issue into hobbies and also I do not plan to start an internet debate.

However I agree with you somewhat, even though most people still don't know what/where Taiwan is.

(I'm from Taiwan actually)

Oh another note, my unpopular opinion is that I HATE R5.  It's a waste of money to develop extra mold to feel WORSE (as oppose to just using R4 twice).

You most likely will raise your hand to hit Esc key so I like my Esc key flat, introducing R5 just feel too angled and awkward.  OEM and Cherry profile R4 is almost flat which is perfect in my opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yicaoyimu on Tue, 02 June 2020, 18:12:10
Imagine having to bring political views into this hobby.. A good keyboard is a good keyboard. I don't care where it's made or the race of the designer.

Anyone that are serious about this hobby, will have a hard time avoiding made in China components anyway. Most custom keyboards are manufactured in China. Most PCBs are made in China. Gateron/JWK/Zeals/Kaih all from China.

There is enough politics outside of this hobby already. Leave this hobby be.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 02 June 2020, 18:23:24
That's the unpopular opinions part of the comment! Haha.

Hey, personally, I feel kind of the same, but it's unavoidable outside of Unicomp, who, from what I understand, does almost all of it in house in Kentucky.

I have a lot of Taiwanese boards from back in the day, and some modern boards made in China with switches made in China with keycaps made in China. Heck, I mean Matias, a proud Canadian country, manufacturers no parts of their boards themselves. They have a couple different switch manufacturers, they get the keycaps from China, and they get the PCB and chassis from China. I want to support my local companies like Matias (I consider Ontario to be local to me lol), or indeed an American company like Unicomp, but man, you basically can't avoid the stuff unless you're buying retro, Unicomp, or Cherry, from what I understand.

You're never going to get any of these new cool switches without buying some chinese stuff.

Not that that matters to me much, I collect IBMs and typically prefer Cherry switches, but I would never experience the joy that is Matias switches or get to try out a Box Navy or Jade, which are awesome.

But, again, I think there's plenty to the hobby just staying retro and buying from Unicomp or Cherry if you need something modern. I mean, who's got a complete Space Invader collection? Anyone? Bueller?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 02 June 2020, 23:11:58
> lol I generally don't want to bring political issue into hobbies and also I do not plan to start an internet debate.

Agreed. Let us not rehash the same dumbass geopolitical arguments that have rolled around ten thousand forums already. There's absolutely nothing new to be said on this topic, and arguing about it never changes the opinion of anyone.

Back to unpopular keyboard opinions:

What's the deal with all the new keyboards projects that seem more jewellery than function? Tiny boards with massive compromises like 1U enter keys, or missing symbols like the quote mark? Do people really sink in the time to relearn these weirdly modified layouts, or do these boards just end up mounted in a display shelf at home?

There's plenty of new stuff coming out that I am impressed with, some stuff that I don't personally like but can appreciate the design behind. And some stuff that just makes me shake my head.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 04 June 2020, 10:03:24
Mod Post:

I cleaned this thread up a bit after things became too political.  I did my best to find the line where it went from slightly political, but still about keyboards to entirely political, and cut things off there.  If your post was removed, this is in no way a punitive act; the thread just needed to be cleaned and set straight.

Let's keep the political discussions to Off Topic and its relevant threads.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dom on Sat, 06 June 2020, 09:44:59
Forgive my "disrespectful" rant, but as a beginner (almost a year in MK generally) I really don't like anything about keycult keyboards. They all look a bit crappy for me, there is nothing (a single thing), which would scream WOW or WANT.

PS: Don't kill me please, peace!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sat, 06 June 2020, 10:23:48
Forgive my "disrespectful" rant, but as a beginner (almost a year in MK generally) I really don't like anything about keycult keyboards. They all look a bit crappy for me, there is nothing (a single thing), which would scream WOW or WANT.

PS: Don't kill me please, peace!

I feel the same way. I just don't covet any of the absurdly expensive designer TKL boards, they all look pretty interchangeable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 06 June 2020, 11:10:09
Forgive my "disrespectful" rant, but as a beginner (almost a year in MK generally) I really don't like anything about keycult keyboards. They all look a bit crappy for me, there is nothing (a single thing), which would scream WOW or WANT.

PS: Don't kill me please, peace!

This is another one of those opinions which probably isn't unpopular :)

I only became aware of keycult recently, and when I looked them up, just though "why bother?"

I don't think they're about keyboards, it's about something else... exclusivity, or uniqueness, or whatever. But then I get the same reaction with a lot of these boutique brands or group buys.

Edit:: Just spent some time checking out the site. What an absolute crock. Bog standard layouts, no switches, these boards are not about a typing experience or innovation. It's just about desktop jewellery.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dom on Sat, 06 June 2020, 11:16:49
I feel the same way.
This is another one of those opinions which probably isn't unpopular :)

Ok, I'm happy at least that I'm not crazy (not the only one) hehe.
Yeah, the "exclusiveness" attribute is a good point!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eyud on Sat, 06 June 2020, 12:05:17
I don't really get the designer/boutique keyboard trend either. To me a keyboard is a tool, and having quality tools is important, but the focus on aesthetics is a bit much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yicaoyimu on Sat, 06 June 2020, 12:24:39
I don't really get the designer/boutique keyboard trend either. To me a keyboard is a tool, and having quality tools is important, but the focus on aesthetics is a bit much.

The same can be said about watch and car.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 06 June 2020, 12:45:18
I don't really get the designer/boutique keyboard trend either. To me a keyboard is a tool, and having quality tools is important, but the focus on aesthetics is a bit much.

The same can be said about watch and car.

Totally agree. Though watches and cars are vastly more complex machines and have much more deeply embedded cultural and historical meaning.

I'm fairly utilitarian in my approach to daily use objects, but I have to say that seeing H4 at the Royal Observatory in the UK was extremely cool. That timepiece and the technology it represented played an important role in the development of the British Empire.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harrison#H4

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sat, 06 June 2020, 15:01:49
The same can be said about watch and car.

Yup, don't get those either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Eyud on Sat, 06 June 2020, 15:13:28
The same can be said about watch and car.

True, and it's kinda funny because I'm not so utilitarian when it comes to cars. So I guess I do get it, I just like boring keyboards. ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Sun, 07 June 2020, 00:59:37
I think that watches are cool, but because they have a type of social thing where people can easily recognize a cool watch. The watches can be bought and used for a lifetime, and the design, while not, strictly speaking, timeless is close enough that a nice watch is noticed through the years. They're also fairly cheap if you do it right. For example, a museum face Movado is $250 or so. One of these slabs of brass with garish LED lights down the side costs that much and won't look cool in 20 years. It's going to look incredibly dated, and it's only used occasionally.

Now, I say that basically only spending a minimum on watches. I just bought a watch by Fossil that's fairly normal looking, and it "only" cost me $60. And, crucially, it doesn't have a K Mart brand on it even though Fossils are crap too at 5 times the price. That's like buying a Tofu except it's still going to look all right in 20 years if I still have it.

I think a lot of the appeal of the Model M isn't just its good sound, good feel, and standard layout, but because it essentially defined keyboard aesthetics, it's a completely classic look, which to some people, is boring, but it's something I bet a lot of us actually like.

So here's an unpopular opinion:

The people who like boring keyboards, and I am grouping myself in with this set of people, like them at least partially because it's a rejection of the trendiness and design via ruler that many current custom keyboards have. It's a deliberate choice to not go into that.

I ask myself sometimes, why am I using a Model M all the time when my alps boards feel better (slightly), sound better (slightly) and have more features? Probably that bomb ass design scheme and industrial case, honestly, and that's a rejection of the deliberately obscure and mainstream trends in the hobby right now both.

If I'm truly honest with myself, I have to ask myself if I like the Model M because the current mainstream doesn't care, and the big chunk of vintage hobbyists dismiss it sometimes? Do I just reject being grouped in with these people? I think I do.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 07 June 2020, 01:36:58
The people who like boring keyboards, and I am grouping myself in with this set of people, like them at least partially because it's a rejection of the trendiness and design via ruler that many current custom keyboards have. It's a deliberate choice to not go into that.

I like to think that I arrived at my extremely boring board collection independently of the whole milled, anodised, polished and externally weighted custom thing. Which I only became aware of within the past couple of weeks, when I started looking at Geekhack group buy postings again. Prior to that I thought the market was still with the RBG plastic-cased gamer aesthetic.

Guess I'm just fundamentally boring :)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Sun, 07 June 2020, 15:30:27
Hahaha that's very much just the other side of the same coin. We're both rejecting RGB and gamer aesthetic, *and* the needlessly twee custom keyboard thing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sun, 07 June 2020, 18:30:21
I ask myself sometimes, why am I using a Model M all the time when my alps boards feel better (slightly), sound better (slightly) and have more features? Probably that bomb ass design scheme and industrial case, honestly, and that's a rejection of the deliberately obscure and mainstream trends in the hobby right now both.

If I'm truly honest with myself, I have to ask myself if I like the Model M because the current mainstream doesn't care, and the big chunk of vintage hobbyists dismiss it sometimes? Do I just reject being grouped in with these people? I think I do.

I agree with not being all that interested in most of those super expensive designer keyboards. The ones that I do end up liking, are industrial designs, like the Heavy Metal Keyboards, and the K65 and K70 (which are also gamer keyboards, coincidentally).

I actually think that I'm more in the minority in that I like vintage boards and switches but am not a big fan of the Model M. I don't like how they feel, I don't particularly like how they look, I don't like that they use a membrane, and I don't like that the plate sandwich is held together with plastic rivets. The layout is great, the sound is good, I could take or leave the rest of it. I can appreciate their place in keyboard history though, and their interesting variants.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Wed, 10 June 2020, 01:45:16
See now that's an unpopular keyboard opinion that I think is secretly held by a lot of people. You always see things like "oh of course the Model M is a great keyboard, but look at these Alps." Or "Well it's nothing compared to the Model M, but anyway, these Gateron Yellows..." it's like people think they need to say something in acknowledgement of the greatness of the Model M but don't believe in it.

I do believe in it, I have around 2 dozen Models M from 1986 through 2020, but It's really like just a great utility player in baseball. My default when people ask me about keyboards is "buy a Model M." If they are Apple losers it's "Buy a Matias." Here, I usually tell people to buy a $30 Amazon **** board since if they're interested enough in keyboards they're going to want to try out a bunch of stuff, but in real life, Models M are just like A- boards in everything, and that's why they're so good.

Like, for us, we both love our Matias Tactile Pros, right? I'd literally only ever suggest one to a Mac user or a keyboard enthusiast who wants a new keyboard. The chatter issues, the weird design, the flex (whatever the plastic is), the lasered keycaps that don't matter, the potential dirt sensitivity of Alps switches, and the price mean that while I use it as much or more than any other single keyboard, it's not something I'll tell someone to get.

A Model M is $50 used or $90 from Unicomp, which is a lot of money, but being under a hundred really is a good psychological factor, plus the keys are bulletproof, and the feel is one of the best in keyboards, IMO, and not that much worse than Models F.

But, for us enthusiasts, we are trying to find something in particular somehow. Like we really want a linear switch or something heavy, or something super light, or something small, or something with feature X, and we just can't take the fact that the Model M has essentially no standout feature, other than being very good, but not excellent, at everything.

I think it might be our inability to settle that is keeping us on this keyboard train for ages. Like, at some point, we just have to be like "okay, this keyboard looks dumb as **** and has thin keycaps and is a Mac layout" or "this thing's perfect but I want to wear earplugs and shoot whoever invented stepped keycaps," or "great layout but too big and it's a little bit too heavy," "but it's basically perfect in the other ways so I'm going to deal with it."

Like, I mean, I used the Model F XT for a while, right? I was cool with it. But then, I had to update the Model M subreddit wiki with dates and part numbers and crap, and Reddit's table layout creation is entirely text based. As in, this is what it looks like when you're editing it.
Quote
UT40U4A | Unicomp | 2020-04-16 | Funkmon | Unicomp New Model M 104 key | https://imgur.com/a/YKr4lOG
1398601 | Lexmark | 1992-12-04 | Funkmon | Lexmark Branded 101 key | https://imgur.com/a/U6K4Hg8
1390572 | IBM | 1986-04-16 | Funkmon | Square badge 122 key | https://imgur.com/a/1Vporrg
1395665 | IBM | 1997-10-09 | Funkmon | Grey oval 102 key terminal, may have been serviced | https://i.imgur.com/dYOoZd2.png
52G9700 | Lexmark | 1993-09-28 | Funkmon | Blue oval 101 key transplanted to industrial case and repaired by Unicomp 2020-05-18 | https://i.imgur.com/JqiSjOo.jpg
1395660 | IBM UK | 1999-11-17 | Funkmon | Blue oval 122 key | https://imgur.com/a/5y8hVT5
CP40K16 | Unicomp | 2012-08-15 | Funkmon | Unicomp Black 101 key with credit card reader | https://i.imgur.com/YoyiAEB.jpg

Because of formatting issues, I had to flip between the number pad and the navigation cluster with enough frequency I said **** it and pulled the Matias back out.

This attitude of ours is a problem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 10 June 2020, 07:13:05

the Model M has essentially no standout feature, other than being very good, but not excellent, at everything.


I kinda mostly agree with your essay, but the fact that you are saying this about a 34-year-old keyboard is amazing in light of what has happened in every other area of computing.

Climbing into the time machine back to those heady days, arguably the biggest impact that the Model M had on the keyboard world was that it standardized the "modern" layout!

And then there is the fact that the Model M is was introduced as an extreme cheapening and downgrade in quality from the Model F(s) in all their weird breeds ....
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 10 June 2020, 12:19:28
See now that's an unpopular keyboard opinion that I think is secretly held by a lot of people. You always see things like "oh of course the Model M is a great keyboard, but look at these Alps." Or "Well it's nothing compared to the Model M, but anyway, these Gateron Yellows..." it's like people think they need to say something in acknowledgement of the greatness of the Model M but don't believe in it.

You may be right about that. It may even partly be people who either haven't spent a lot of time with the Model M, or have never even felt one, so they're just parroting generalizations, like most of us do with beam spring. How many have ever even seen a beam spring? I haven't. Maybe I never will. We all consider them the apex of clicky switches though, because that's the general consensus.

Personally, I would take those Gateron yellows over a Model M, and I'm not really a huge fan of linears. I can't wrap my head around how I see such a huge difference between Models F and M and nobody else seems to. Maybe I need to force myself to type on one for a week or two. I would not look forward to it.

I do believe in it, I have around 2 dozen Models M from 1986 through 2020, but It's really like just a great utility player in baseball. My default when people ask me about keyboards is "buy a Model M." If they are Apple losers it's "Buy a Matias." Here, I usually tell people to buy a $30 Amazon **** board since if they're interested enough in keyboards they're going to want to try out a bunch of stuff, but in real life, Models M are just like A- boards in everything, and that's why they're so good.

When it comes to typing, I would prefer a random $30 Amazon board with some Outemu blues to an M, myself. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like, for us, we both love our Matias Tactile Pros, right? I'd literally only ever suggest one to a Mac user or a keyboard enthusiast who wants a new keyboard. The chatter issues, the weird design, the flex (whatever the plastic is), the lasered keycaps that don't matter, the potential dirt sensitivity of Alps switches, and the price mean that while I use it as much or more than any other single keyboard, it's not something I'll tell someone to get.

I do wonder if chatter is even a problem with at least the most modern Matias clickies. That second Mini Tactile Pro I found didn't have a single switch that seemed to chatter yet in my testing, and that board had apparently been in daily use for 6 months. I do imagine they've got the same dust/dirt susceptibility as Alps though, unfortunately. I actually quite like the design myself, and the mini variants don't seem to me to really have any noticeable flex. Certainly less than most boards. Only more than something like a TG3 when it comes to plastic cases, and those have pretty thick aluminum plates on the bottom. That dye I was ordering came in by the way. They may be thin lasered caps, but I'm going to try to at least try to make them look less Apple-esque. I do agree on not recommending it to people. People seem to love or hate Matias, and I can't say I liked the feel of a loose "quiet click" switch. The linears and clickies are nice, but I don't have enough time using either to say for sure they won't develop chatter, like how I'll actually defend a K65 or K70 quality-wise.

A Model M is $50 used or $90 from Unicomp, which is a lot of money, but being under a hundred really is a good psychological factor, plus the keys are bulletproof, and the feel is one of the best in keyboards, IMO, and not that much worse than Models F.

There's no question that the Model M, in all guises, offers a good value so long as you get in at under $100-150.

But, for us enthusiasts, we are trying to find something in particular somehow. Like we really want a linear switch or something heavy, or something super light, or something small, or something with feature X, and we just can't take the fact that the Model M has essentially no standout feature, other than being very good, but not excellent, at everything.

I just don't like the feel, plain and simple. The plastic rivets and buried hex screws annoy me, but they're not a deal breaker. The look is not particularly appealing to me, but not a major negative either. The layout, besides the lack of a Windows key, is perfect. That's actually a stand-out fantastic thing about the M that it leaves most 80s vintage boards in the dust on. I'm willing to compromise, to an extent, on layout for the switches I want though.

I think it might be our inability to settle that is keeping us on this keyboard train for ages. Like, at some point, we just have to be like "okay, this keyboard looks dumb as **** and has thin keycaps and is a Mac layout" or "this thing's perfect but I want to wear earplugs and shoot whoever invented stepped keycaps," or "great layout but too big and it's a little bit too heavy," "but it's basically perfect in the other ways so I'm going to deal with it."

Maybe that's a problem for some, indecision. I think a bigger consideration is curiosity. I want to feel switches that I'm fairly certain I won't even end up preferring, so long as they're accessible and still considered highly-regarded. I want to see every angle, see the pros and cons, etc. That's most of the reason I got a Matias and Topre board. With the Matias, I was just pleasantly surprised to the contrary. I went in fully expecting to be disappointed, and I was not.

You're right on the compromises we make though, especially with vintage boards. The perfect combination just doesn't always exist. I think the F77 and/or F107 are pretty well perfect for my uses, and there are ANSI layout Alps boards, but that's not all universal either, based on what people value.

I love the sound of the F XT. I know, I'm strange. The heavier the better, if you ask me. The only time I would say otherwise is if I wanted to lug the thing around every day.

Like, I mean, I used the Model F XT for a while, right? I was cool with it. But then, I had to update the Model M subreddit wiki with dates and part numbers and crap, and Reddit's table layout creation is entirely text based. As in, this is what it looks like when you're editing it.
Quote
UT40U4A | Unicomp | 2020-04-16 | Funkmon | Unicomp New Model M 104 key | https://imgur.com/a/YKr4lOG
1398601 | Lexmark | 1992-12-04 | Funkmon | Lexmark Branded 101 key | https://imgur.com/a/U6K4Hg8
1390572 | IBM | 1986-04-16 | Funkmon | Square badge 122 key | https://imgur.com/a/1Vporrg
1395665 | IBM | 1997-10-09 | Funkmon | Grey oval 102 key terminal, may have been serviced | https://i.imgur.com/dYOoZd2.png
52G9700 | Lexmark | 1993-09-28 | Funkmon | Blue oval 101 key transplanted to industrial case and repaired by Unicomp 2020-05-18 | https://i.imgur.com/JqiSjOo.jpg
1395660 | IBM UK | 1999-11-17 | Funkmon | Blue oval 122 key | https://imgur.com/a/5y8hVT5
CP40K16 | Unicomp | 2012-08-15 | Funkmon | Unicomp Black 101 key with credit card reader | https://i.imgur.com/YoyiAEB.jpg

Because of formatting issues, I had to flip between the number pad and the navigation cluster with enough frequency I said **** it and pulled the Matias back out.

I never use the number pad, so I never thought of that. I always just used that part of the board for navigation, and nothing else. I could certainly see where not having a separate nav cluster could be irritating for people who use the number pad.

This attitude of ours is a problem.

Our proclivities for weird old stuff, or?


the Model M has essentially no standout feature, other than being very good, but not excellent, at everything.


I kinda mostly agree with your essay, but the fact that you are saying this about a 34-year-old keyboard is amazing in light of what has happened in every other area of computing.

Climbing into the time machine back to those heady days, arguably the biggest impact that the Model M had on the keyboard world was that it standardized the "modern" layout!

And then there is the fact that the Model M is was introduced as an extreme cheapening and downgrade in quality from the Model F(s) in all their weird breeds ....


Yes, the Model M holds an important place in history, that cannot be understated.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 10 June 2020, 12:40:52
I think it might be our inability to settle that is keeping us on this keyboard train for ages. Like, at some point, we just have to be like "okay, this keyboard looks dumb as **** and has thin keycaps and is a Mac layout" or "this thing's perfect but I want to wear earplugs and shoot whoever invented stepped keycaps," or "great layout but too big and it's a little bit too heavy," "but it's basically perfect in the other ways so I'm going to deal with it."

There's a good unpopular opinion. I think stepped capslocks on modern aftermarket sets are an affectation. Form over function, as they offer less contact area to press a key (which should be mapped to Control or something else more useful). Yet in another recent thread, the bulk of posters insisted that stepped caps lock should be available.



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Wed, 10 June 2020, 20:36:01
I think it might be our inability to settle that is keeping us on this keyboard train for ages. Like, at some point, we just have to be like "okay, this keyboard looks dumb as **** and has thin keycaps and is a Mac layout" or "this thing's perfect but I want to wear earplugs and shoot whoever invented stepped keycaps," or "great layout but too big and it's a little bit too heavy," "but it's basically perfect in the other ways so I'm going to deal with it."

There's a good unpopular opinion. I think stepped capslocks on modern aftermarket sets are an affectation. Form over function, as they offer less contact area to press a key (which should be mapped to Control or something else more useful). Yet in another recent thread, the bulk of posters insisted that stepped caps lock should be available.

I’d make them available solely because of compatibility. Not every board is going to have the ability for both.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 10 June 2020, 21:15:00
I think it might be our inability to settle that is keeping us on this keyboard train for ages. Like, at some point, we just have to be like "okay, this keyboard looks dumb as **** and has thin keycaps and is a Mac layout" or "this thing's perfect but I want to wear earplugs and shoot whoever invented stepped keycaps," or "great layout but too big and it's a little bit too heavy," "but it's basically perfect in the other ways so I'm going to deal with it."

There's a good unpopular opinion. I think stepped capslocks on modern aftermarket sets are an affectation. Form over function, as they offer less contact area to press a key (which should be mapped to Control or something else more useful). Yet in another recent thread, the bulk of posters insisted that stepped caps lock should be available.

I’d make them available solely because of compatibility. Not every board is going to have the ability for both.

Oh, even if you don't swap capslock and leftcontrol, having a stepped caps lock is purely cosmetic. As 1. it's a very rarely used key and 2. all a step does is reduce the usable contact surface of the cap.

I guess aftermarket keycaps are all about cosmetics anyway, so I'm really just digging for something to complain about :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Wed, 10 June 2020, 21:40:17
Quote
all a step does is reduce the usable contact surface of the cap.

That's why the Apple chiclet keyboards are the best. Maximum cap surface.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 10 June 2020, 21:45:22
Quote
all a step does is reduce the usable contact surface of the cap.

That's why the Apple chiclet keyboards are the best. Maximum cap surface.
The butterfly ones are the best. Who needs travel?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Wed, 10 June 2020, 22:03:43
I never understand why there are people spending 2-3k to buy a keycult board. In the meantime, I'm glad that they are not spending that money on a beamspring so I can hopefully purchase one soon before they realize there will be more keycults but not more beamsprings.

My sense is that the community is now pretty diverse, with a lot of money coming from programmers, people who like anime, gamers... etc. Every group has different preferences... I can see why something that make good photos or signal status on social media can sell well.

Personally I like vintage boards but I don't use them as daily drivers on a regular basis. They tend to take too much desk space and are not supported by QMK. While Hasu's USB controller and other converters allow custom keymaps, QMK simply provides much more flexibility and only get better. I'm also unlikely to travel with a Model M or F.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 10 June 2020, 23:02:42
I think it might be our inability to settle that is keeping us on this keyboard train for ages. Like, at some point, we just have to be like "okay, this keyboard looks dumb as **** and has thin keycaps and is a Mac layout" or "this thing's perfect but I want to wear earplugs and shoot whoever invented stepped keycaps," or "great layout but too big and it's a little bit too heavy," "but it's basically perfect in the other ways so I'm going to deal with it."

There's a good unpopular opinion. I think stepped capslocks on modern aftermarket sets are an affectation. Form over function, as they offer less contact area to press a key (which should be mapped to Control or something else more useful). Yet in another recent thread, the bulk of posters insisted that stepped caps lock should be available.

I actually just noticed that this was a thing recently. I'm pretty oblivious to keyboard trends. While I have always liked the look of a stepped caps lock key, I'm inclined to agree, unless one may want to use it to help prevent themselves from accidentally pressing caps lock. I know that's actually a key that I have accidentally pressed when not intending to. I find that ironic, when I have no problem at all with accidental presses of the Windows key.

I never understand why there are people spending 2-3k to buy a keycult board. In the meantime, I'm glad that they are not spending that money on a beamspring so I can hopefully purchase one soon before they realize there will be more keycults but not more beamsprings.

My sense is that the community is now pretty diverse, with a lot of money coming from programmers, people who like anime, gamers... etc. Every group has different preferences... I can see why something that make good photos or signal status on social media can sell well.

Personally I like vintage boards but I don't use them as daily drivers on a regular basis. They tend to take too much desk space and are not supported by QMK. While Hasu's USB controller and other converters allow custom keymaps, QMK simply provides much more flexibility and only get better. I'm also unlikely to travel with a Model M or F.

I would put my vintage keyboarding at at least 50/50, if not a greater slant towards vintage. Gaming has always been on my trusty old Corsair K70, though I may alter even that once I stop being lazy and fully clean up one of my old Zenith boards with linear Alps switches. Most of my typing is either with random retail boards with box jades or navies swapped into them, or some random vintage board with clicky switches, unless I'm spending some time with a new switch type for a while.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 11 June 2020, 01:58:28
Rating alps switches out of 10 is dumb and should stop being a thing. Everyone that sells alps should post a photo of the inside of a few switch tops to show the condition of the tracks as that's what actually matters.

Also, if you've ultrasonic cleaned and lubed 1st gen alps, I'm gonna assume that they were in terrible condition and could never be genuinely decent.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Thu, 11 June 2020, 07:22:06
I think it might be our inability to settle that is keeping us on this keyboard train for ages. Like, at some point, we just have to be like "okay, this keyboard looks dumb as **** and has thin keycaps and is a Mac layout" or "this thing's perfect but I want to wear earplugs and shoot whoever invented stepped keycaps," or "great layout but too big and it's a little bit too heavy," "but it's basically perfect in the other ways so I'm going to deal with it."

There's a good unpopular opinion. I think stepped capslocks on modern aftermarket sets are an affectation. Form over function, as they offer less contact area to press a key (which should be mapped to Control or something else more useful). Yet in another recent thread, the bulk of posters insisted that stepped caps lock should be available.

I’d make them available solely because of compatibility. Not every board is going to have the ability for both.

Oh, even if you don't swap capslock and leftcontrol, having a stepped caps lock is purely cosmetic. As 1. it's a very rarely used key and 2. all a step does is reduce the usable contact surface of the cap.

I guess aftermarket keycaps are all about cosmetics anyway, so I'm really just digging for something to complain about :)

It’s not purely cosmetic. The MX stem is located in a different position, about 0.25u to the left. If you’re trying to cover a board that expects that offset, you either need a stepped caps lock or a non-stepped keycap that happens to have the stem in stepped position (as with some PMK sets).

Additionally, depending on how someone touch-types, stepped/unstopped capslock can provide a difference in usability. Touch typists that use it frequently will benefit from having it non-stepped, while touch typists that use it rarely benefit from having it stepped (so as to make it less likely to be struck by accident).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 11 June 2020, 07:34:03

I have always liked the look of a stepped caps lock key

use it to help prevent themselves from accidentally pressing caps lock. I know that's actually a key that I have accidentally pressed when not intending to.


I really like stepped keys, I wish there were more of them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Thu, 11 June 2020, 21:03:38
Rating alps switches out of 10 is dumb and should stop being a thing. Everyone that sells alps should post a photo of the inside of a few switch tops to show the condition of the tracks as that's what actually matters.

Also, if you've ultrasonic cleaned and lubed 1st gen alps, I'm gonna assume that they were in terrible condition and could never be genuinely decent.

Haha holy smokes! Been burned a few times on those bad lads?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Fri, 12 June 2020, 01:02:41
Rating alps switches out of 10 is dumb and should stop being a thing. Everyone that sells alps should post a photo of the inside of a few switch tops to show the condition of the tracks as that's what actually matters.

Also, if you've ultrasonic cleaned and lubed 1st gen alps, I'm gonna assume that they were in terrible condition and could never be genuinely decent.

Haha holy smokes! Been burned a few times on those bad lads?

Not badly, just a highly variable amount of truth and effort to make them nice again.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Fri, 12 June 2020, 02:56:23

I have always liked the look of a stepped caps lock key

use it to help prevent themselves from accidentally pressing caps lock. I know that's actually a key that I have accidentally pressed when not intending to.


I really like stepped keys, I wish there were more of them.
Stepped Caps Lock is VASTLY underrated, it should be a 100% standardisation IMO.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Fri, 12 June 2020, 11:04:28
Stepped Caps Lock is VASTLY underrated, it should be a 100% standardisation IMO.
I like that most boards support both stepped and unstepped.  For persons that want Caps Lock there but don't use it often, stepped is optimal.  For folks mapping either control, backspace, or some other function there, unstepped is better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Fri, 12 June 2020, 16:45:13
Stepped Caps Lock is VASTLY underrated, it should be a 100% standardisation IMO.

While I totally understand why it is stepped, can anyone one explain why there are so many stepped keys on Model F XT 83?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Fri, 12 June 2020, 16:57:36
Stepped Caps Lock is VASTLY underrated, it should be a 100% standardisation IMO.

While I totally understand why it is stepped, can anyone one explain why there are so many stepped keys on Model F XT 83?

That is indeed really odd. Only guess I have is that they designed it such that you don’t need to make multiple copies of legend insert moulds. Everything is 1u.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 12 June 2020, 18:24:53
Stepped Caps Lock is VASTLY underrated, it should be a 100% standardisation IMO.

While I totally understand why it is stepped, can anyone one explain why there are so many stepped keys on Model F XT 83?

That is indeed really odd. Only guess I have is that they designed it such that you don’t need to make multiple copies of legend insert moulds. Everything is 1u.

I had always read that it was to prevent the need for stabilizers beneath the longer caps, as it forced the typist to always depress the switch from the center of the cap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 12 June 2020, 18:52:42

I had always read that it was to prevent the need for stabilizers beneath the longer caps, as it forced the typist to always depress the switch from the center of the cap.

I never thought of that, what a great idea.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Fri, 12 June 2020, 20:53:16
Yes, I believe that used to be fairly common practice on stuff like that. And, if you look, that's exactly where the spring is. Some vintage keyboards that have keycaps stepped in really really weird ways are always stepped so that the typist presses right over the switch or spring. I saw one somewhere once, decades ago, that had the entire right side of the alphanumeric block stepped. Like iirc it was something like a Monterey layout where the backspace looked more like a caps lock, the big ass enter was stepped into a medium ass enter, and the right shift was shortened as well. Sure enough, you open it up and the switches all hung out on the left side of the key hole.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Sat, 13 June 2020, 00:17:18
I wonder whether it has something to do with older computer systems. Maybe in XT it's more consequential to press on those stepped keys? "Do not press on it unless you absolutely intend to" is what those keys scream to me.

I don't have multiple Model Fs to compare. Does anyone of them have non-spacebar stabilizers?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wencan008 on Sat, 13 June 2020, 01:16:29
Not needing to use stabilizers is what I've heard and it also makes the most sense to me. Why spend time and money developing extra parts that could fail, when you could just force users to press in the center and not worry about binding on off center presses because they aren't possible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Sat, 13 June 2020, 04:12:00
Stepped Caps Lock is VASTLY underrated, it should be a 100% standardisation IMO.

While I totally understand why it is stepped, can anyone one explain why there are so many stepped keys on Model F XT 83?

That is indeed really odd. Only guess I have is that they designed it such that you don’t need to make multiple copies of legend insert moulds. Everything is 1u.

I had always read that it was to prevent the need for stabilizers beneath the longer caps, as it forced the typist to always depress the switch from the center of the cap.
Yes, that's what I've been led to believe as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 13 June 2020, 04:40:05
I think that maybe stabiliser bars is a relatively late idea. There are many vintage keyboards from the '70s and even early '80s where no key is larger than 1.5u, except for the space bar — which is the only one that is stabilised. The keyboards often looked a bit haphazard with staggered openings in the top case.

I suspect that stepped "hat keys" could have been introduced for aesthetic reasons, to allow groups of non-stabilised keys to be fit into straight rectangles

For folks mapping either control, backspace, or some other function there, unstepped is better.
Holding Control by mistake and pressing another key would be worse than holding Caps Lock by mistake and then another key.

I prefer a stepped Control (left of A) also because the step serves as a homing feature, making me find the home row easily: It is more pronounced than the bump or dish of the F key.
Compare to how people like there to be some space around the arrow keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Sat, 13 June 2020, 11:22:51
I don't know how unpopular this is but I'll share anyway.
I think mini 1800 keyboards like the candy bar and the elongate look damn fantastic but I can't get in on these because they are missing the . ; / ' keys. How do you get through a day of typing without period and question mark keys?

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Sat, 13 June 2020, 12:10:41
J is a bad key for a homing bump. Enter and mainly backspace becomes much more accessible if you shift your right hand one key to the right, ie. index finger at K instead of J.

Speaking of which: QWERTY is a bad layout, not because most used letters are too far away, but simply because even non-alphabetical keys are badly placed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 13 June 2020, 12:28:46
I don't know how unpopular this is but I'll share anyway.
I think mini 1800 keyboards like the candy bar and the elongate look damn fantastic but I can't get in on these because they are missing the . ; / ' keys. How do you get through a day of typing without period and question mark keys?

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I find designs like the second board additionally confusing because they deliberately include a numpad, but cut down on all the keys that you'd use in conjunction with a dedicated numpad- the arithmetic operators. I asked about this in a thread on the Clarabelle, and the Enter key is achieved by hitting "." twice, but I'm not sure how +-*/ are accessed, and in any case, if you're a heavy numpad user, you'd probably want to access these keys without resorting to function layers.

I guess there must be fairly common cases for dependence on a numpad without the associated operator buttons.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AJM on Sat, 13 June 2020, 13:14:27
I wouldn't waste time trying to figure out, how 40 % keyboards or the mini 1800 stuff are useful.
They're exactly as useful as "custom coiled cables" and "artisans".  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Sat, 13 June 2020, 13:21:17
I don't know how unpopular this is but I'll share anyway.
I think mini 1800 keyboards like the candy bar and the elongate look damn fantastic but I can't get in on these because they are missing the . ; / ' keys. How do you get through a day of typing without period and question mark keys?

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I find designs like the second board additionally confusing because they deliberately include a numpad, but cut down on all the keys that you'd use in conjunction with a dedicated numpad- the arithmetic operators. I asked about this in a thread on the Clarabelle, and the Enter key is achieved by hitting "." twice, but I'm not sure how +-*/ are accessed, and in any case, if you're a heavy numpad user, you'd probably want to access these keys without resorting to function layers.

I guess there must be fairly common cases for dependence on a numpad without the associated operator buttons.

I agree. Here's an alternate layout I came up with. While it may be more functional, I don't think it looks as good. It's not as balanced. Looks pretty jenky actually. So I guess in trying to improve it, it kind of loses the spirit of what these compact boards are trying to achieve.


[attachimg=1]



Most of the time when looking at these boards, my brain goes cross eyed trying to figure out how I would hit things like tab, num lock, let alone common shortcuts like alt+tab, alt+F4. It looks cool but it's just a traffic jam of unusability. If I designate the numpad as my number row I can access my symbols but then sacrifice my nav cluster. If I do the opposite, I get home, end pgup and pgdn which I use a lot but then I lose my symbols.  Ugh, my brain hurts.

At the end of the day, this is just me griping. These really are fantastic looking keyboards and the designers are clearly talented. If you can figure out how to use it I say power to you and that makes you more clever than me. Maybe one day I'll get one of these and lock myself in a dark room for a month so that I'm forced to learn how to use it. After all, I just want to be one of the cool kids  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Sat, 13 June 2020, 13:25:14
I wouldn't waste time trying to figure out, how 40 % keyboards or the mini 1800 stuff are useful.
They're exactly as useful as "custom coiled cables" and "artisans".  ;)

This. These are oxymoron boards created as novelty, which is totally fine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 13 June 2020, 21:40:45
I don't know how unpopular this is but I'll share anyway.
I think mini 1800 keyboards like the candy bar and the elongate look damn fantastic but I can't get in on these because they are missing the . ; / ' keys. How do you get through a day of typing without period and question mark keys?

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I find designs like the second board additionally confusing because they deliberately include a numpad, but cut down on all the keys that you'd use in conjunction with a dedicated numpad- the arithmetic operators. I asked about this in a thread on the Clarabelle, and the Enter key is achieved by hitting "." twice, but I'm not sure how +-*/ are accessed, and in any case, if you're a heavy numpad user, you'd probably want to access these keys without resorting to function layers.

I guess there must be fairly common cases for dependence on a numpad without the associated operator buttons.

I agree. Here's an alternate layout I came up with. While it may be more functional, I don't think it looks as good. It's not as balanced. Looks pretty jenky actually. So I guess in trying to improve it, it kind of loses the spirit of what these compact boards are trying to achieve.


(Attachment Link)




Most of the time when looking at these boards, my brain goes cross eyed trying to figure out how I would hit things like tab, num lock, let alone common shortcuts like alt+tab, alt+F4. It looks cool but it's just a traffic jam of unusability. If I designate the numpad as my number row I can access my symbols but then sacrifice my nav cluster. If I do the opposite, I get home, end pgup and pgdn which I use a lot but then I lose my symbols.  Ugh, my brain hurts.

At the end of the day, this is just me griping. These really are fantastic looking keyboards and the designers are clearly talented. If you can figure out how to use it I say power to you and that makes you more clever than me. Maybe one day I'll get one of these and lock myself in a dark room for a month so that I'm forced to learn how to use it. After all, I just want to be one of the cool kids  :D

I think this looks well thought out and well balanced, though obviously you'd have to retrain your left hand for numpad. It's also obviously not as cut down as the others.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105187.0;topicseen
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Sat, 13 June 2020, 21:47:11
I don't know how unpopular this is but I'll share anyway.
I think mini 1800 keyboards like the candy bar and the elongate look damn fantastic but I can't get in on these because they are missing the . ; / ' keys. How do you get through a day of typing without period and question mark keys?

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I find designs like the second board additionally confusing because they deliberately include a numpad, but cut down on all the keys that you'd use in conjunction with a dedicated numpad- the arithmetic operators. I asked about this in a thread on the Clarabelle, and the Enter key is achieved by hitting "." twice, but I'm not sure how +-*/ are accessed, and in any case, if you're a heavy numpad user, you'd probably want to access these keys without resorting to function layers.

I guess there must be fairly common cases for dependence on a numpad without the associated operator buttons.

I agree. Here's an alternate layout I came up with. While it may be more functional, I don't think it looks as good. It's not as balanced. Looks pretty jenky actually. So I guess in trying to improve it, it kind of loses the spirit of what these compact boards are trying to achieve.


(Attachment Link)




Most of the time when looking at these boards, my brain goes cross eyed trying to figure out how I would hit things like tab, num lock, let alone common shortcuts like alt+tab, alt+F4. It looks cool but it's just a traffic jam of unusability. If I designate the numpad as my number row I can access my symbols but then sacrifice my nav cluster. If I do the opposite, I get home, end pgup and pgdn which I use a lot but then I lose my symbols.  Ugh, my brain hurts.

At the end of the day, this is just me griping. These really are fantastic looking keyboards and the designers are clearly talented. If you can figure out how to use it I say power to you and that makes you more clever than me. Maybe one day I'll get one of these and lock myself in a dark room for a month so that I'm forced to learn how to use it. After all, I just want to be one of the cool kids  :D

I think this looks well thought out and well balanced, though obviously you'd have to retrain your left hand for numpad. It's also obviously not as cut down as the others.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105187.0;topicseen

Yeah, I’m not a fan of south paw
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Avi_ on Sun, 14 June 2020, 06:50:32
My unpopular opinions:
1.   IBM Model M is not that good. It’s too big, too stiff, too scratchy. The only good thing about it is the perfect synchronization between tactile feedback, audio feedback and actuation.
2.   Cherry MX switches are fine. Most boutique switches have only novelty value. Standard Cherry MX line of switches covers almost all niches, except for the clicky switches.
3.   Cherry MX Browns are actually not bad. Like many of us, when I started with this hobby, I purchased a keyboard on “universal” MX Browns. Then as my experience grew, I started to read that Browns are “scratchy” or “not tactile enough”, and I started to despise them. But eventually I understood that this is the switch that it’s very easy to type on. It’s not especially pleasant to touch an individual Brown switch. It does not produce good sound either. But when you type, the tactile event is just right to help with the flow without asking for extra attention. Some switches just ask “Feel how tactile I am, and how smooth! Enjoy me!”. Browns do their job without getting in the way.
4.   Cherry MX Blacks are actually not bad. Some describe them as too stiff. I normally prefer lighter switches, and find BS or MX Clears and even MX Blues too stiff. But Blacks for some reason feel good. I like to type energetically on them, to bottom out each key.
5.   Windows key is essential, Menu key is actually useful.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Sun, 14 June 2020, 21:54:41
My unpopular opinions:
1.   IBM Model M is not that good. It’s too big, too stiff, too scratchy. The only good thing about it is the perfect synchronization between tactile feedback, audio feedback and actuation.
2.   Cherry MX switches are fine. Most boutique switches have only novelty value. Standard Cherry MX line of switches covers almost all niches, except for the clicky switches.
3.   Cherry MX Browns are actually not bad. Like many of us, when I started with this hobby, I purchased a keyboard on “universal” MX Browns. Then as my experience grew, I started to read that Browns are “scratchy” or “not tactile enough”, and I started to despise them. But eventually I understood that this is the switch that it’s very easy to type on. It’s not especially pleasant to touch an individual Brown switch. It does not produce good sound either. But when you type, the tactile event is just right to help with the flow without asking for extra attention. Some switches just ask “Feel how tactile I am, and how smooth! Enjoy me!”. Browns do their job without getting in the way.
4.   Cherry MX Blacks are actually not bad. Some describe them as too stiff. I normally prefer lighter switches, and find BS or MX Clears and even MX Blues too stiff. But Blacks for some reason feel good. I like to type energetically on them, to bottom out each key.
5.   Windows key is essential, Menu key is actually useful.

Other than the first one, this is a completely correct post.

What's crazy is that you're actually just saying the conventional non keyboard enthusiast opinions. MX blacks are a standard in many situations, like POS terminals, and they work great for those. Every keyboard for the past 20 years has a Windows and context menu key. Browns are popular for a reason, and you know what? I whipped out a keyboard with them recently and I actually like them. Cherry MX are considered the gold standard in the industry for a reason.

So the crazy part is that if you say your unpopular opinions to a normal tier nerd who maybe has a mechanical keyboard but doesn't obsess, he'd go "yeah duh." If you say it on reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards, they'll form a mob and hunt you down.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: GlennL42 on Sun, 14 June 2020, 23:05:13
While on the note of Model M and MBuS switches, am I the only one that thinks that the Achilles heel of MBuS is simply having a membrane layer? Yes I know having a membrane isn't inherently indicative of switch feel but from my experience with them the sound and feel of Model M's flipper 'slapping' is just not very satisfying, hence my opinion on them lacking 'substance' in their feedback compare to CBuS and various other clickies, which I think have something to do with membrane layer dampening the impact of the flippers; plus the comparatively soft/dampened bottom out and shorter travel maybe due to the membrane layer as well but I'm much less certain about this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Mon, 15 June 2020, 00:57:44
The flippers are smaller as well. I would expect that making a Model F with a membrane layer wouldn't hurt it too much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Mon, 15 June 2020, 01:35:35
So the crazy part is that if you say your unpopular opinions to a normal tier nerd who maybe has a mechanical keyboard but doesn't obsess, he'd go "yeah duh." If you say it on reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards, they'll form a mob and hunt you down.

There's no contradiction there though, in the context of enthusiasts, MX brown is utterly unremarkable. It's like going to a coffee forum and wading into every thread about how you like mcdonalds coffee the best.

It's a bland switch if you expect to love and appreciate what you type on. I used an MX brown board for about a decade and it never once ruined my day. I never paused to think "oh my I love this thing" though either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 15 June 2020, 03:13:44
So the crazy part is that if you say your unpopular opinions to a normal tier nerd who maybe has a mechanical keyboard but doesn't obsess, he'd go "yeah duh." If you say it on reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards, they'll form a mob and hunt you down.

There's no contradiction there though, in the context of enthusiasts, MX brown is utterly unremarkable. It's like going to a coffee forum and wading into every thread about how you like mcdolands coffee the best.

It's a bland switch if you expect to love and appreciate what you type on. I used an MX brown board for about a decade and it never once ruined my day. I never paused to think "oh my I love this thing" though either.

I've come across people posting in-depth on coffee and making coffee, and they are way more extreme than keyboard people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Mon, 15 June 2020, 12:48:52
On the note of Cherry MX Browns being not that bad..

I don't like Gateron switches.
I find Cherry Browns crisper and with a more pronounced tactile bump.
Gateron Browns feel less tactile and in comparison to Kailh switches, they feel much cheaper, on par with Outemus.
I've tried two keyboards with Gateron switches, one some HP Pavilion or something with Gateron Reds (which I tried in a store) and an Anne Pro 2 with Gateron Browns (which I used for a week).
Reds feel really smooth, almost frictionless, but they're mushy and have a unpleasant sound. Browns were a bit less mushy, but the sound was still unpleasant and in comparison with the same board with Kailh Box Browns (which is now my daily driver) the Gaterons felt much worse. Not to mention the right bracket key was squeaking on the one with Gaterons.

The only advantage Gaterons had over Kailhs was the better RGB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Mon, 15 June 2020, 16:31:24
Cherry MX, Gateron, Outemu, Kailh, Greetech etc. are basically all the same.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Mon, 15 June 2020, 16:43:46
Otemu housings & gateron housings < Cherry housings
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: frydaja on Mon, 15 June 2020, 18:24:13
Cherry MX, Gateron, Outemu, Kailh, Greetech etc. are basically all the same.

Am I allowed to disagree? I mean, the design is the same, but the execution is different.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Mon, 15 June 2020, 18:58:11
I mean barely. I can tell the difference, and I prefer Outemu Blues and Cherry Browns, but they basically use the same thing to create the tactile event and the click event, outside of the Box switches, and the occasional weird optical ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Mon, 15 June 2020, 23:41:54
Cherry MX, Gateron, Outemu, Kailh, Greetech etc. are basically all the same.

I think this is a bit exaggerated but I agree they are not that different. Your videos are the most costly advertisements I have ever watched...  :)) :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Wed, 17 June 2020, 10:49:14
I don't hate rubber domes.








Do I get to keep my membership?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 17 June 2020, 10:53:16
I don't hate rubber domes.








Do I get to keep my membership?


Well, Topre is rubber domes...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Thu, 18 June 2020, 22:21:55
Not sure whether this is an unpopular opinion, or perhaps more contentious. I've been thinking about this one a while, as a result of not paying attention to keyboard developments for several years then returning to GK, and checking out all the ICs and GBs.

The majority of the high end, small-run, enthusiast boards (or rather, cases) are interchangeable, unadventurous jewellery boxes.

They're mostly bog-standard layouts 60%, 56%, TKL. Narrow bezels, angular casework, a polished brass weight underneath. The emphasis on expensive CNC milling or a fancy dead weight just means that the end product can't have proper cable routing under the board, so you have an exposed USB socket sitting on the back of the case with no strain relief.

There's definitely some interesting stuff coming out- I like some of the left hander designs, and I can appreciate the real creativity behind some of the unusually ornate or retro designs, but most of the stuff out there seems to be differentiated purely by minor variations in case colours or logo.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Fri, 19 June 2020, 01:00:38
Not sure whether this is an unpopular opinion, or perhaps more contentious. I've been thinking about this one a while, as a result of not paying attention to keyboard developments for several years then returning to GK, and checking out all the ICs and GBs.

The majority of the high end, small-run, enthusiast boards (or rather, cases) are interchangeable, unadventurous jewellery boxes.

They're mostly bog-standard layouts 60%, 56%, TKL. Narrow bezels, angular casework, a polished brass weight underneath. The emphasis on expensive CNC milling or a fancy dead weight just means that the end product can't have proper cable routing under the board, so you have an exposed USB socket sitting on the back of the case with no strain relief.

There's definitely some interesting stuff coming out- I like some of the left hander designs, and I can appreciate the real creativity behind some of the unusually ornate or retro designs, but most of the stuff out there seems to be differentiated purely by minor variations in case colours or logo.

What kind of proper cable routing are you referring to?

Many do come with their own pcbs so I don't think it's fair to say they are just cases.

I wish more of them will support alps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Fri, 19 June 2020, 01:19:33
Not sure whether this is an unpopular opinion, or perhaps more contentious. I've been thinking about this one a while, as a result of not paying attention to keyboard developments for several years then returning to GK, and checking out all the ICs and GBs.

The majority of the high end, small-run, enthusiast boards (or rather, cases) are interchangeable, unadventurous jewellery boxes.

They're mostly bog-standard layouts 60%, 56%, TKL. Narrow bezels, angular casework, a polished brass weight underneath. The emphasis on expensive CNC milling or a fancy dead weight just means that the end product can't have proper cable routing under the board, so you have an exposed USB socket sitting on the back of the case with no strain relief.

There's definitely some interesting stuff coming out- I like some of the left hander designs, and I can appreciate the real creativity behind some of the unusually ornate or retro designs, but most of the stuff out there seems to be differentiated purely by minor variations in case colours or logo.

Agree.

I don't like detachable cables either, it I don't transport keyboards, they sit on my desk or in storage, so I'd rather have a secure cable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 19 June 2020, 01:52:11
What kind of proper cable routing are you referring to?

Many do come with their own pcbs so I don't think it's fair to say they are just cases.

I wish more of them will support alps.

Something like this, which seems pretty standard on any semi-decent mass produced board. Loads of strain relief (so it really doesn't matter if the cable is fixed, or uses any variation of USB connection), and you get the cable exiting the board in a way fits your desktop arrangement.

(https://codeandlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/topre_bottom.jpg)

Looking at the photo just reminds me of another thing that these jewellery box cases are lacking- fold out feet for angle adjustment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Jojjelito on Fri, 19 June 2020, 05:57:33
Desktop jewelry cases, 40%, 60% are fine for web browser use. Serious work in some specialized applications, be it DAW, photo editing, software development in some IDE calls for a full layout. For me and my use case something like a 980, or sometimes TKL is ideal. Good luck with finding a decent 980 or keyboard kit in stock. My daily driver would be Leopold 980 with PBT caps. Not sure it exists in Nordic layout? Have seen it with ABS, but never in stock.

Oh, one more thing: I don’t get the SA profile. The keys are too tall to feel good. If you enjoy the tall key wobblefest more power to you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Gampela on Fri, 19 June 2020, 12:08:58
My daily driver would be Leopold 980 with PBT caps. Not sure it exists in Nordic layout? Have seen it with ABS, but never in stock.

The only ISO Leopolds I've seen have been DE layouts, I think. And only older models with pbt dyesubs not those fancy new doubleshot pbt keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Fri, 19 June 2020, 14:07:34

Something like this, which seems pretty standard on any semi-decent mass produced board. Loads of strain relief (so it really doesn't matter if the cable is fixed, or uses any variation of USB connection), and you get the cable exiting the board in a way fits your desktop arrangement.

Show Image
(https://codeandlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/topre_bottom.jpg)


Looking at the photo just reminds me of another thing that these jewellery box cases are lacking- fold out feet for angle adjustment.

Got you. I am not a big fan of all these cases but I don't necessarily find these issues to be problematic. People can use whatever cable they want and the whole cable cottage industry can probably fulfill whatever demand there is. Most designs also specify the angle.

I guess the bottomline is that it doesn't make sense to compare boutique with mass-produced products. Many of those GBs are like the fashion industry, which serves a role in the whole clothing industry.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mekanist on Fri, 19 June 2020, 15:55:18
I like 60% traymounts with arrow keys, fite me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Avi_ on Sat, 20 June 2020, 01:57:31
The majority of the high end, small-run, enthusiast boards (or rather, cases) are interchangeable, unadventurous jewellery boxes.

I'd put it this way: the majority of the high end custom boards are just ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 20 June 2020, 02:30:38
I'd put it this way: the majority of the high end custom boards are just ugly.

Ugly is totally acceptable- I'd be fine with someone calling a Model M ugly (I have two and will never get rid of them). It's the utterly derivative, carbon copy, zero innovation aspect which is puzzling.

There's definitely some impressive stuff. The elaborately constructed Evolve case, the Mahjong/Canvas full fat southpaw designs, the chunky retro cases willing to take a risk. They're the minority.

I guess the bottomline is that it doesn't make sense to compare boutique with mass-produced products. Many of those GBs are like the fashion industry, which serves a role in the whole clothing industry.

I was thinking along these lines too, but it's not like the haute couture end of fashion, where designers might take inspiration from each other but have to come up with something original to be attention-grabbing. It's more like... fancy collectable sneakers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Sat, 20 June 2020, 11:54:25
I was thinking along these lines too, but it's not like the haute couture end of fashion, where designers might take inspiration from each other but have to come up with something original to be attention-grabbing. It's more like... fancy collectable sneakers.

Yeah, from a bystander's point of view, I do wish to see more innovation. The thing is, with very limited supply, a lot of buyers are just looking to buy something similar to a previous GB. It is not just the designers need to be innovative, the buyers need to be willing to throw money at innovative designs too. My hope is that as the community grows and its members become more experienced, the demand naturally adjust beyond different colors and materials, and move toward something more functional.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:04:34
So what if some company then just came up with a bunch of black slabs as regular production and then just offered it? Could he make gangbusters money?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:26:21
I don't think that anyone is going to make gangbusters money if they're using an inherently slow and expensive process like CNC.

Unless they've managed to market their product into a Veblen good, like Keycult. But by then it's not really about keyboards anymore, it's just about selling some idea of perceived status.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:31:23
it's just about selling some idea of perceived status.

What, that very thing that we in the unpopular keyboard opinion thread think is going on with these custom 60%s?



HERE'S ONE.

I prefer the XT layout.

Hard to believe, I know, but after using a Model F AT for a few days and going back to the XT, I've noticed that my fingers just go right where they're supposed to, and it all fits and makes sense. The backspace is better, and the pipe key is where it should be; bottom left.

And another thing, the XT is much better built, and even though the sound is not great and I prefer the deeper sound of the Model M, the AT just doesn't do it. That's got little to do with the layout, but there you go.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sun, 21 June 2020, 03:37:48
Not sure whether this is an unpopular opinion, or perhaps more contentious. I've been thinking about this one a while, as a result of not paying attention to keyboard developments for several years then returning to GK, and checking out all the ICs and GBs.

The majority of the high end, small-run, enthusiast boards (or rather, cases) are interchangeable, unadventurous jewellery boxes.

They're mostly bog-standard layouts 60%, 56%, TKL. Narrow bezels, angular casework, a polished brass weight underneath. The emphasis on expensive CNC milling or a fancy dead weight just means that the end product can't have proper cable routing under the board, so you have an exposed USB socket sitting on the back of the case with no strain relief.

There's definitely some interesting stuff coming out- I like some of the left hander designs, and I can appreciate the real creativity behind some of the unusually ornate or retro designs, but most of the stuff out there seems to be differentiated purely by minor variations in case colours or logo.

Cable gutters are nice, and certainly beat out just having extremely fragile USB sockets jutting out of the back of a board, but I would rather I just make my cables, use aviators for connection directly to the board instead of crappy micro USB or type c, and just know that the cable will last.

it's just about selling some idea of perceived status.

What, that very thing that we in the unpopular keyboard opinion thread think is going on with these custom 60%s?



HERE'S ONE.

I prefer the XT layout.

Hard to believe, I know, but after using a Model F AT for a few days and going back to the XT, I've noticed that my fingers just go right where they're supposed to, and it all fits and makes sense. The backspace is better, and the pipe key is where it should be; bottom left.

And another thing, the XT is much better built, and even though the sound is not great and I prefer the deeper sound of the Model M, the AT just doesn't do it. That's got little to do with the layout, but there you go.

You prefer the XT layout to the AT layout, or even to more modern ones? I couldn't do it. I'm not a fan of all of those stepped caps, much less the layout even if they were not stepped. I do find the XT's ping very entertaining though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AJM on Sun, 21 June 2020, 08:05:04
...
HERE'S ONE.

I prefer the XT layout.

Hard to believe, I know, but after using a Model F AT for a few days and going back to the XT, I've noticed that my fingers just go right where they're supposed to, and it all fits and makes sense. The backspace is better, and the pipe key is where it should be; bottom left.

And another thing, the XT is much better built, and even though the sound is not great and I prefer the deeper sound of the Model M, the AT just doesn't do it. That's got little to do with the layout, but there you go.

That means, there are already two of us.  :thumb: 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: drfilco on Sun, 21 June 2020, 20:42:00
Filco and Das are stupidly overpriced.

You're not wrong... well anyway here's mine:


Honorable mention: I wish GMK Lux was gold like the metal, not like the pollen... or aged butter... or synthetic cheese...

Ones I've seen in here that I totally agree with:

- Like a bad Tinder match, SA might be less appealing in person - and things only get more awkward once you touch them.

- I want to like Signature Plastics because TEAM 'MURICA (and they genuinely have good customer service) but... yeah. Iffy colors, iffy textures, toy-like aesthetic, and borderline unacceptable packaging considering the price.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sun, 21 June 2020, 22:11:05
Filco and Das are stupidly overpriced.

You're not wrong... well anyway here's mine:

  • I like OEM profile, easily in my top 3, and I wish it got more compat love
  • I like Filcos, even though they're kitschy, overpriced, and needlessly without basic modern features
  • I'd like to see someone make a truly premium shine-through keycap set

Honorable mention: I wish GMK Lux was gold like the metal, not like the pollen... or aged butter... or synthetic cheese...

Ones I've seen in here that I totally agree with:

- Like a bad Tinder match, SA might be less appealing in person - and things only get more awkward once you touch them.

- I want to like Signature Plastics because TEAM 'MURICA (and they genuinely have good customer service) but... yeah. Iffy colors, iffy textures, toy-like aesthetic, and borderline unacceptable packaging considering the price.

I don't know that any of that is necessarily unpopular. I think my Das Pro 4 is pretty well-built though, even at the price. I could see the plastic ones being overpriced.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure the problem with metallic caps is it is usually either going to have to be made entirely out of metal, or be electroplated in some way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fpazos on Fri, 26 June 2020, 16:15:44
I don't like rust patinas on plates on expensive custom keebs.
At the moment I have a -12 on my reddit colment for mentioning this

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 26 June 2020, 17:54:17
I don't like rust patinas on plates on expensive custom keebs.
At the moment I have a -12 on my reddit colment for mentioning this

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

Rust patinas are a thing on brand new plates? What on earth? LMAO. Do they actually rust them, or is it just some sort of finish to simulate it? If it is real rust, that sounds stupid as hell to me.

Well, you've got one more vote in your favor, regardless of the actual finish. I can't see how that would be appealing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fpazos on Fri, 26 June 2020, 18:21:42
I don't like rust patinas on plates on expensive custom keebs.
At the moment I have a -12 on my reddit colment for mentioning this

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

Rust patinas are a thing on brand new plates? What on earth? LMAO. Do they actually rust them, or is it just some sort of finish to simulate it? If it is real rust, that sounds stupid as hell to me.

Well, you've got one more vote in your favor, regardless of the actual finish. I can't see how that would be appealing.
I have only seen it on customized by owners keebs. It is a strange process involving acids among other things that creates rust on a metal. I have a friend of my university that made beautiful sculptures using this process, see used unvaluable pieces of metal and turned it on something unique.
But for me is something that's wrong on an expensive object that you touch every day. Maybe if you are creating a steampunk or similar themed keeb it has a purpose but not on a custom keeb from a groupbuy.

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 26 June 2020, 20:06:18
I don't like rust patinas on plates on expensive custom keebs.
At the moment I have a -12 on my reddit colment for mentioning this

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

Rust patinas are a thing on brand new plates? What on earth? LMAO. Do they actually rust them, or is it just some sort of finish to simulate it? If it is real rust, that sounds stupid as hell to me.

Well, you've got one more vote in your favor, regardless of the actual finish. I can't see how that would be appealing.
I have only seen it on customized by owners keebs. It is a strange process involving acids among other things that creates rust on a metal. I have a friend of my university that made beautiful sculptures using this process, see used unvaluable pieces of metal and turned it on something unique.
But for me is something that's wrong on an expensive object that you touch every day. Maybe if you are creating a steampunk or similar themed keeb it has a purpose but not on a custom keeb from a groupbuy.

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

I have seen plenty of metal sculptures that are left to naturally rust. No idea if they started rusty or not. I don't think there's any place for intentional rust outside of rust bluing firearms (which is a controlled process and actually helps to prevent active red rust) and art. Covering a plate in active rust is stupid because active rust will continue to rust, until the plate is compromised. Whenever I get a vintage board I care anything about I usually want to remove all of the active rust and paint the parts that were rusted with Rust-Oleum just in case I didn't get it all, because it will begin to rust again otherwise. Then there's the fact that iron oxide is probably going to eventually break loose from the rusting plate and start sloshing around in there and possibly getting into your switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: noorejji on Sat, 27 June 2020, 01:51:41
I think keycap renders featuring unicorn keyboards are useless. Be it cases that are unreleased, ridiculously rare, or with nonexistent case colors that conveniently perfectly match that particular keyset. It doesn’t help me decide wether that keyset is gonna look good on my keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 27 June 2020, 05:46:10
I think keycap renders featuring unicorn keyboards are useless. Be it cases that are unreleased, ridiculously rare, or with nonexistent case colors that conveniently perfectly match that particular keyset. It doesn’t help me decide wether that keyset is gonna look good on my keyboard.

Does it really matter though? Unless it's something extra-odd looking like an Alice-style keyboard, most cases look pretty similar and it seems to me that it's mainly a matter of matching the colour of the case to the key cap colourway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sat, 27 June 2020, 07:25:23
Does it really matter though? Unless it's something extra-odd looking like an Alice-style keyboard, most cases look pretty similar and it seems to me that it's mainly a matter of matching the colour of the case to the key cap colourway.

Lets be real, all alu keyboard cases look pretty much the same.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bsdice on Sat, 27 June 2020, 09:27:36
Is it just me or do metal cases rob Alps switches of the sexy thock thock thock sound and make them all sound like clik clik clik?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 27 June 2020, 10:38:33
Is it just me or do metal cases rob Alps switches of the sexy thock thock thock sound and make them all sound like clik clik clik?

metal cases rob all switches of the thock thock.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 27 June 2020, 11:45:37
Are Alps switches supposed to thock? I've only owned one, a Northgate from presumably the 80s and it was click click click. Way better than something like MX Blue, but definitely metallic clicky.

Thock is what I associate with Topre.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sat, 27 June 2020, 11:56:35
Is it just me or do metal cases rob Alps switches of the sexy thock thock thock sound and make them all sound like clik clik clik?

To some extent, yes, I have two alu alps boards and while I like them they don't sound as good as my plastic vintage apple boards. They don't sound bad though, just not as pleasing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sun, 28 June 2020, 00:22:46
Are Alps switches supposed to thock? I've only owned one, a Northgate from presumably the 80s and it was click click click. Way better than something like MX Blue, but definitely metallic clicky.

Thock is what I associate with Topre.

Clicky switches click, linears and tactiles generally don't. What creates the thock, as far as I can tell is the reverberation of bottoming out in a plastic case. Try some Linear Alps, in particular, in a board with a plastic case. It will thock. Maybe not always as deeply as something like a Realforce, but it will. I just tried again with my Z-150, which has a metal plate on the bottom of the casing, and even that thocked. My recently-acquired NeXT keyboard with SKCM black switches thocks, even my Leading Edge DC-2014s thock, it is just hard to hear over the click.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Sun, 28 June 2020, 11:20:48
I'm probably wrong on this but dedicated arrow keys on a >=60% make no sense to me...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 29 June 2020, 11:54:50
I'm probably wrong on this but dedicated arrow keys on a >=60% make no sense to me...

Not having dedicated arrow keys on any keyboard of any size and meant to be functional at all for something other than typing, without much modification to something previously typed, makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Mon, 29 June 2020, 14:31:26
I'm probably wrong on this but dedicated arrow keys on a >=60% make no sense to me...

Not having dedicated arrow keys on any keyboard of any size and meant to be functional at all for something other than typing, without much modification to something previously typed, makes no sense to me.
I'm sure many people are doing a lot without dedicated arrow keys. I code and published a book this year.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 29 June 2020, 16:16:32
I'm probably wrong on this but dedicated arrow keys on a >=60% make no sense to me...

Not having dedicated arrow keys on any keyboard of any size and meant to be functional at all for something other than typing, without much modification to something previously typed, makes no sense to me.
I'm sure many people are doing a lot without dedicated arrow keys. I code and published a book this year.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

With proprietary layers/mapping for the lost hotkeys on a single board (or multiples with the exact same programming) and that's all you use, then yes. I would hate to have to live like that. There are way too many random, weird, old, or all of the above keyboards I would rather be able to just touch type on with as little change in muscle memory as possible, that and I couldn't use just one keyboard forever if I had wanted to.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Mon, 29 June 2020, 16:24:32


With proprietary layers/mapping for the lost hotkeys on a single board (or multiples with the exact same programming) and that's all you use, then yes. I would hate to have to live like that. There are way too many random, weird, old, or all of the above keyboards I would rather be able to just touch type on with as little change in muscle memory as possible, that and I couldn't use just one keyboard forever if I had wanted to.

That's why I specified 60%, almost all of which come with the ability to remap the layout. To be clear, I think arrow keys are extremely important. So important that I don't want them to be far away from the home rows or the prime real estate area. Imagine the alphas as the central park in Manhattan, I often map the arrows to be very near it instead of in the usual area even when I'm working with a full or TKL. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 29 June 2020, 16:31:57


With proprietary layers/mapping for the lost hotkeys on a single board (or multiples with the exact same programming) and that's all you use, then yes. I would hate to have to live like that. There are way too many random, weird, old, or all of the above keyboards I would rather be able to just touch type on with as little change in muscle memory as possible, that and I couldn't use just one keyboard forever if I had wanted to.

That's why I specified 60%, almost all of which come with the ability to remap the layout. To be clear, I think arrow keys are extremely important. So important that I don't want them to be far away from the home rows or the prime real estate area. Imagine the alphas as the central park in Manhattan, I often map the arrows to be very near it instead of in the usual area even when I'm working with a full or TKL.

Yeah, I figured that was the case. I don't mess with mapping unless that mapping follows the keyboard through its own internal controller, or a converter that I pair with it, and usually only for something that most keyboards don't have a standard location for anyway, or nothing dedicated at all, like volume control, etc.

I would hate to have to set up a custom mapping on every single computer I happen to use, which is very many.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Mon, 29 June 2020, 21:48:44




Yeah, I figured that was the case. I don't mess with mapping unless that mapping follows the keyboard through its own internal controller, or a converter that I pair with it, and usually only for something that most keyboards don't have a standard location for anyway, or nothing dedicated at all, like volume control, etc.

I would hate to have to set up a custom mapping on every single computer I happen to use, which is very many.

I put my autohotkey script on Dropbox so my home and no longer used office computers share the same script.

Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Other hotkeys I really enjoy are:
CTRL+1=CTRL+home
CTRL+2=CTRL+End
LSHFT+A=", " , Left
LSHFT+S=(,), Left

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 30 June 2020, 00:58:43
Okay, I'll try it. Let's see what happens. As a bonus, the F XT already has that in the right spot, so we'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Tue, 30 June 2020, 01:10:12
Okay, I'll try it. Let's see what happens. As a bonus, the F XT already has that in the right spot, so we'll see how it goes.
Please report back! Chromebook actually allows native remapping of the control key to where caps lock usually is.

Model F AT and some beamspring boards also have control there.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 30 June 2020, 02:07:06
Genuinely so far so good, actually. My only issue so far has been the old Ctrl+Shift+Esc. Other stuff like Ctrl+W and Ctrl+T and so on have been swell. Maybe what I'll do then is remap the bottom left key to Win...hmm.

Dear god I might turn into one of you nutcases with a goofy ass layout that nobody else can use.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Tue, 30 June 2020, 02:19:09
Genuinely so far so good, actually. My only issue so far has been the old Ctrl+Shift+Esc. Other stuff like Ctrl+W and Ctrl+T and so on have been swell. Maybe what I'll do then is remap the bottom left key to Win...hmm.

Dear god I might turn into one of you nutcases with a goofy ass layout that nobody else can use.
Seriously having two controls is still better than having caps lock there. Caps lock belongs to Siberia or basement, not home row.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 30 June 2020, 10:58:31
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Now you have seen someone going back to caps lock, only because I haven't bothered to put anything useful there, because I don't particularly like using that key at all. I have used many vintage keyboards with ctrl in the location that caps lock usually is on modern boards, for months at a time in aggregate. I still do not like it, at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Tue, 30 June 2020, 11:12:57
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Now you have see someone going back to caps lock, only because I haven't bothered to put anything useful there, because I don't particularly like using that key at all. I have used many vintage keyboards with ctrl in the location that caps lock usually is on modern boards, for months at a time in aggregate. I still do not like it, at all.
You don't use Ctrl? Yeah in which case definitely don't bother with it. We all have our comfort zones and we should only explore what we are genuinely curious about.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 30 June 2020, 11:34:58
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Now you have see someone going back to caps lock, only because I haven't bothered to put anything useful there, because I don't particularly like using that key at all. I have used many vintage keyboards with ctrl in the location that caps lock usually is on modern boards, for months at a time in aggregate. I still do not like it, at all.
You don't use Ctrl? Yeah in which case definitely don't bother with it. We all have our comfort zones and we should only explore what we are genuinely curious about.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, ctrl I use constantly. I just don't like it being where caps lock normally is. My fingers are pretty long, and I used ctrl thousands of times a day for a year straight doing data entry. My muscle memory, and repetition, made it so that its normal location is instinct and somehow quite comfortable, to the point that I don't quite understand the preference towards the inverse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Tue, 30 June 2020, 11:45:19
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Now you have see someone going back to caps lock, only because I haven't bothered to put anything useful there, because I don't particularly like using that key at all. I have used many vintage keyboards with ctrl in the location that caps lock usually is on modern boards, for months at a time in aggregate. I still do not like it, at all.
You don't use Ctrl? Yeah in which case definitely don't bother with it. We all have our comfort zones and we should only explore what we are genuinely curious about.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, ctrl I use constantly. I just don't like it being where caps lock normally is. My fingers are pretty long, and I used ctrl thousands of times a day for a year straight doing data entry. My muscle memory, and repetition, made it so that its normal location is instinct and somehow quite comfortable, to the point that I don't quite understand the preference towards the inverse.

Yeah like what I said, do what's best for you. I'm just encouraging people to give it a try if they haven't.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:09:32
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

I did, didn't care for it. I could 100% get used to it, but it wasn't worth the hassle. This is probably due to me being primarily a mac user, and even on linux I map ctrl to cmd on apple keyboards, so things mostly work as they do on OS X, so my bottom row is ctrl, alt, ctrl, space, ctrl, alt fn, ctrl. Kinda wacky and effectively WKL but it works really well for me, far better than capslock to ctrl.

Hot take and likely unpopular opinion: cmd is the best modifier key, it's infinitely more comfortable than ctrl. It's also amazingly good for behaving the same way as usual when using a terminal, no need to use shift to copy and past, cmd-c and cmd-v work normally, ctrl-c works normally, bliss.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:26:04
Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

Now you have see someone going back to caps lock, only because I haven't bothered to put anything useful there, because I don't particularly like using that key at all. I have used many vintage keyboards with ctrl in the location that caps lock usually is on modern boards, for months at a time in aggregate. I still do not like it, at all.
You don't use Ctrl? Yeah in which case definitely don't bother with it. We all have our comfort zones and we should only explore what we are genuinely curious about.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

No, ctrl I use constantly. I just don't like it being where caps lock normally is. My fingers are pretty long, and I used ctrl thousands of times a day for a year straight doing data entry. My muscle memory, and repetition, made it so that its normal location is instinct and somehow quite comfortable, to the point that I don't quite understand the preference towards the inverse.

Yeah like what I said, do what's best for you. I'm just encouraging people to give it a try if they haven't.

I'm still very curious as to why some people seem to prefer it mapped that way. That Dropbox thing is a good idea, by the way. I don't know that I want to be accessing Dropbox on dozens, or hundreds, of computers though either.

Arrow keys aside, I highly recommend moving control to caps lock. Give it a week or two, I haven't seen anyone going back to caps lock...

I did, didn't care for it. I could 100% get used to it, but it wasn't worth the hassle. This is probably due to me being primarily a mac user, and even on linux I map ctrl to cmd on apple keyboards, so things mostly work as they do on OS X, so my bottom row is ctrl, alt, ctrl, space, ctrl, alt fn, ctrl. Kinda wacky and effectively WKL but it works really well for me, far better than capslock to ctrl.

Hot take and likely unpopular opinion: cmd is the best modifier key, it's infinitely more comfortable than ctrl. It's also amazingly good for behaving the same way as usual when using a terminal, no need to use shift to copy and past, cmd-c and cmd-v work normally, ctrl-c works normally, bliss.

I'm typing from a Matias Mini Tactile Pro, which I have modified the controller on to function like a standard PC controller (Since Matias doesn't make keyboards with good switches with the PC mapping anymore). I am the exact opposite. The proprietary Mac hotkey differences irritate me. I imagine most of that is muscle memory, but I do find using the traditional alt (command with Apple keyboards) at all while on the home row somewhat awkward myself. Almost all I use the alt key for is ctrl+alt+delete, which really isn't done from the home row anyway.

Ergonomically, what is it that you like about it? Do you curl your thumb to press it?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:38:55
To preface... I don't think there's one best to type. In my case, if I keep my left index finger on or near F, reaching the bottom-left corner with my pinky meaning that I have to turn my left palm outward, straining my left wrist. This is why I prefer to have control to be higher in the home row and why I don't normally use left shift.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:44:48
To preface... I don't think there's one best to type. In my case, if I keep my left index finger on or near F, reaching the bottom-left corner with my pinky meaning that I have to turn my left palm outward, straining my left wrist. This is why I prefer to have control to be higher in the home row and why I don't normally use left shift.

I figured it may have something to do with this. My pinkies are so long that I do not need to do anything at all with my palm in order to reach ctrl. Ironically, I don't use left shift at all though outside of gaming, which may contribute to my dislike for using the key where caps lock is traditionally mapped as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:48:49
To preface... I don't think there's one best to type. In my case, if I keep my left index finger on or near F, reaching the bottom-left corner with my pinky meaning that I have to turn my left palm outward, straining my left wrist. This is why I prefer to have control to be higher in the home row and why I don't normally use left shift.

I figured it may have something to do with this. My pinkies are so long that I do not need to do anything at all with my palm in order to reach ctrl. Ironically, I don't use left shift at all though outside of gaming, which may contribute to my dislike for using the key where caps lock is traditionally mapped as well.


I don't know if it's about the length of your pinkies. Do you just curl them all the way back to the palm?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:53:39
To preface... I don't think there's one best to type. In my case, if I keep my left index finger on or near F, reaching the bottom-left corner with my pinky meaning that I have to turn my left palm outward, straining my left wrist. This is why I prefer to have control to be higher in the home row and why I don't normally use left shift.

I figured it may have something to do with this. My pinkies are so long that I do not need to do anything at all with my palm in order to reach ctrl. Ironically, I don't use left shift at all though outside of gaming, which may contribute to my dislike for using the key where caps lock is traditionally mapped as well.


I don't know if it's about the length of your pinkies. Do you just curl them all the way back to the palm?

My fingers are so long in general that my palms do not get very close at all to the first row of keys when resting comfortably on the home row. I press the ctrl key with the pad of my pinky, no flexible gymnastics required.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Tue, 30 June 2020, 12:58:16
Very interest!I would love to see a picture if you're will to share... :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Tue, 30 June 2020, 15:38:27
I'm typing from a Matias Mini Tactile Pro, which I have modified the controller on to function like a standard PC controller (Since Matias doesn't make keyboards with good switches with the PC mapping anymore). I am the exact opposite. The proprietary Mac hotkey differences irritate me. I imagine most of that is muscle memory, but I do find using the traditional alt (command with Apple keyboards) at all while on the home row somewhat awkward myself. Almost all I use the alt key for is ctrl+alt+delete, which really isn't done from the home row anyway.

Ergonomically, what is it that you like about it? Do you curl your thumb to press it?

to hit control with my thumb I need to contort to the point of being a bit uncomfortable, for cmd I just pivot my thumb a bit, no curling required.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 30 June 2020, 17:09:30
I'm typing from a Matias Mini Tactile Pro, which I have modified the controller on to function like a standard PC controller (Since Matias doesn't make keyboards with good switches with the PC mapping anymore). I am the exact opposite. The proprietary Mac hotkey differences irritate me. I imagine most of that is muscle memory, but I do find using the traditional alt (command with Apple keyboards) at all while on the home row somewhat awkward myself. Almost all I use the alt key for is ctrl+alt+delete, which really isn't done from the home row anyway.

Ergonomically, what is it that you like about it? Do you curl your thumb to press it?

to hit control with my thumb I need to contort to the point of being a bit uncomfortable, for cmd I just pivot my thumb a bit, no curling required.

You press ctrl with your thumb? All I press with my thumb from the home row is the space bar. If I were trying to press ctrl with my thumb, I imagine even I would rather it be command instead.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Wed, 01 July 2020, 00:00:13
Very interest!I would love to see a picture if you're will to share... :))


My fingers are so long in general that my palms do not get very close at all to the first row of keys when resting comfortably on the home row. I press the ctrl key with the pad of my pinky, no flexible gymnastics required.

Photo of Maledicted

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KFG5Iq5Xz18/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Wed, 01 July 2020, 00:17:09
I knew it...

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 01 July 2020, 11:40:07
Very interest!I would love to see a picture if you're will to share... :))


My fingers are so long in general that my palms do not get very close at all to the first row of keys when resting comfortably on the home row. I press the ctrl key with the pad of my pinky, no flexible gymnastics required.

Photo of Maledicted

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I knew it...

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I'm not quite that tall, and certainly don't dress half as well.

[attachimg=1]

There's the picture you requested. I do sometimes adjust the resting position of my palms based on the keys being pressed, but I stay on the home row unless I'm doing a weird hotkey like ctrl+alt+delete or am going for the arrow keys, of course.

Yeah, I tried to dye those ABS caps with iDye Poly. Most of the modifiers were supposed to be "crimson" and the alphanumerics, etc, were supposed to be black. They're more of a magenta and dark purple now, sort of like when a blue pen explodes ... and the blue pen ink is already wearing off.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gnho on Wed, 01 July 2020, 11:49:12
Wow these are indeed very impressively long fingers. Thanks for posting!

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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 01 July 2020, 20:35:46
I'm not quite that tall, and certainly don't dress half as well.

(Attachment Link)

There's the picture you requested. I do sometimes adjust the resting position of my palms based on the keys being pressed, but I stay on the home row unless I'm doing a weird hotkey like ctrl+alt+delete or am going for the arrow keys, of course.

Yeah, I tried to dye those ABS caps with iDye Poly. Most of the modifiers were supposed to be "crimson" and the alphanumerics, etc, were supposed to be black. They're more of a magenta and dark purple now, sort of like when a blue pen explodes ... and the blue pen ink is already wearing off.

Are you double jointed in the pinky? I am completely unable to bend my finger that way. To reach the Control key with my other fingers on the home row, my wrist will kink in sharply towards the centre of the keyboard, which is why I've had to do the Control/CapsLock key swap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 06 July 2020, 09:45:50
I'm not quite that tall, and certainly don't dress half as well.

(Attachment Link)

There's the picture you requested. I do sometimes adjust the resting position of my palms based on the keys being pressed, but I stay on the home row unless I'm doing a weird hotkey like ctrl+alt+delete or am going for the arrow keys, of course.

Yeah, I tried to dye those ABS caps with iDye Poly. Most of the modifiers were supposed to be "crimson" and the alphanumerics, etc, were supposed to be black. They're more of a magenta and dark purple now, sort of like when a blue pen explodes ... and the blue pen ink is already wearing off.

Are you double jointed in the pinky? I am completely unable to bend my finger that way. To reach the Control key with my other fingers on the home row, my wrist will kink in sharply towards the centre of the keyboard, which is why I've had to do the Control/CapsLock key swap.

I do think that all of my fingers are double-jointed. I didn't even think about that. I've always wondered why so many people cared about the placement of control and here I'm probably just some double-jointed, long-fingered freak of nature. Maybe whoever placed ctrl where it is, and cemented its importance in modern operating systems, was similarly strange?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: WholesomeDucky on Mon, 06 July 2020, 14:31:57
I once took a Razer BlackwidowX TE (Their floating key, tenkeyless ANSI board) and desoldered, then resoldered, all 522 solder joints so I could put Gateron Blacks in it while retaining the in-switch RGB LEDs. Then I threw some blank DSA caps on it. I was inexperienced then, and didn't have a nice solder-sucker. It took me AGES, at least a couple weekends' worth of work when I found the time to work on it.

And it was absolutely worth it. I gamed on that board for over a year.

I have more refined tastes now, but I don't regret "making" that board, and I still have it. The caps are pretty s*** though, I will probably throw a taihao set on there today just to make it look a small bit more presentable on the shelf.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 06 July 2020, 15:35:32
I once took a Razer BlackwidowX TE (Their floating key, tenkeyless ANSI board) and desoldered, then resoldered, all 522 solder joints so I could put Gateron Blacks in it while retaining the in-switch RGB LEDs. Then I threw some blank DSA caps on it. I was inexperienced then, and didn't have a nice solder-sucker. It took me AGES, at least a couple weekends' worth of work when I found the time to work on it.

And it was absolutely worth it. I gamed on that board for over a year.

I have more refined tastes now, but I don't regret "making" that board, and I still have it. The caps are pretty s*** though, I will probably throw a taihao set on there today just to make it look a small bit more presentable on the shelf.

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: WholesomeDucky on Tue, 07 July 2020, 06:54:48

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

To a lot of the people I've talked to, Razer is unredeemable trash and nothing can or will ever make any of their boards any good.

At least, that is pre-"Razer Optical" switches, since apparently those are pretty well made.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 07 July 2020, 07:25:39

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

To a lot of the people I've talked to, Razer is unredeemable trash and nothing can or will ever make any of their boards any good.

At least, that is pre-"Razer Optical" switches, since apparently those are pretty well made.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'irredeemable' part, as you clearly redeemed it by gutting it by replacing the switches, then you went and replaced the caps. The two most important parts of a keyboard.

The remainder was a case (a plastic box) and a PCB (a slab of compressed composite).

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 07 July 2020, 10:15:04

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

To a lot of the people I've talked to, Razer is unredeemable trash and nothing can or will ever make any of their boards any good.

At least, that is pre-"Razer Optical" switches, since apparently those are pretty well made.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'irredeemable' part, as you clearly redeemed it by gutting it by replacing the switches, then you went and replaced the caps. The two most important parts of a keyboard.

The remainder was a case (a plastic box) and a PCB (a slab of compressed composite).

Weren't at least some of their old switches also at least made by Kaihua? In that case, I can't imagine they could be any worse than Cherry MX. All of the Greetech switches I have tried have certainly been pretty horrible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: WholesomeDucky on Tue, 07 July 2020, 10:22:13

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

To a lot of the people I've talked to, Razer is unredeemable trash and nothing can or will ever make any of their boards any good.

At least, that is pre-"Razer Optical" switches, since apparently those are pretty well made.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'irredeemable' part, as you clearly redeemed it by gutting it by replacing the switches, then you went and replaced the caps. The two most important parts of a keyboard.

The remainder was a case (a plastic box) and a PCB (a slab of compressed composite).

Weren't at least some of their old switches also at least made by Kaihua? In that case, I can't imagine they could be any worse than Cherry MX. All of the Greetech switches I have tried have certainly been pretty horrible.

Yeah the greetechs were pretty horrid. A lot of people also hate the shoddy case quality and the edgy "gamer" design. I know over the years those two things have become kind of annoying to me.

For most it's the little things....rattling stabs, the sound, fixed cable, etc. Their "floating key" boards are extremely loud, even on linears, and trying to fix the stabs is an adventure by itself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 07 July 2020, 10:31:31

Is that meant to be an unpopular opinion? I find modifying random old keyboards to be what I want them to be really fun and satisfying. I know the struggle with cheap solder suckers. Mine was out of an old Radioshack soldering kit, so I imagine it was bottom-of-the-barrel even for the manual ones. I swear that thing would jam up every 2-3 switches.

I don't think that assembling kit boards from parts will be nearly as interesting, but I may be surprised.

To a lot of the people I've talked to, Razer is unredeemable trash and nothing can or will ever make any of their boards any good.

At least, that is pre-"Razer Optical" switches, since apparently those are pretty well made.

Well, I'm not sure about the 'irredeemable' part, as you clearly redeemed it by gutting it by replacing the switches, then you went and replaced the caps. The two most important parts of a keyboard.

The remainder was a case (a plastic box) and a PCB (a slab of compressed composite).

Weren't at least some of their old switches also at least made by Kaihua? In that case, I can't imagine they could be any worse than Cherry MX. All of the Greetech switches I have tried have certainly been pretty horrible.

Yeah the greetechs were pretty horrid. A lot of people also hate the shoddy case quality and the edgy "gamer" design. I know over the years those two things have become kind of annoying to me.

For most it's the little things....rattling stabs, the sound, fixed cable, etc. Their "floating key" boards are extremely loud, even on linears, and trying to fix the stabs is an adventure by itself.

I prefer clickies, so the more rattly the stabilizers, the better. I think I actually prefer a fixed cable to micro USB or mini USB, unless they've got stress relief and/or a cable gutter, since those connectors majorly suck. Removable yet durable is always nice though, when that rarely happens.

I don't personally care about the "gamer" aesthetic one way or another. I don't generally care a whole lot about the case either (though it won't be a favorite of mine if it isn't wood, metal, polycarbonate, and/or relatively thick). A nice thick plate, usually steel, is what matters most to me. Switches can be changed, caps can be changed (if I bother), cable attachment, etc, can be changed ... and it usually is if I care about the board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 07 July 2020, 20:11:44
Weren't at least some of their old switches also at least made by Kaihua? In that case, I can't imagine they could be any worse than Cherry MX. All of the Greetech switches I have tried have certainly been pretty horrible.

I tried a store demo board back when Razer was using switches from Kailh, it was a lot worse than Cherry. Somehow they'd managed to populate the board with very inconsistent switches, some of them were more or less audible, some required slightly different forces to actuate, it was a total mess.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 07 July 2020, 21:28:32
Weren't at least some of their old switches also at least made by Kaihua? In that case, I can't imagine they could be any worse than Cherry MX. All of the Greetech switches I have tried have certainly been pretty horrible.

I tried a store demo board back when Razer was using switches from Kailh, it was a lot worse than Cherry. Somehow they'd managed to populate the board with very inconsistent switches, some of them were more or less audible, some required slightly different forces to actuate, it was a total mess.

I actually just noticed that my switch tester has two Razer green switches produced by Kailh. They both feel a bit different from each other, to be sure ... and so do the Cherry MX blues on the same tester. They seem to be to be roughly the same in unpleasant plastic rattle, etc. My sample size is small though. I already hated Razer by the time I had even heard they were making mechanicals, so I never did bother trying one of their boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 08 July 2020, 01:47:27
I actually just noticed that my switch tester has two Razer green switches produced by Kailh. They both feel a bit different from each other, to be sure ... and so do the Cherry MX blues on the same tester. They seem to be to be roughly the same in unpleasant plastic rattle, etc. My sample size is small though. I already hated Razer by the time I had even heard they were making mechanicals, so I never did bother trying one of their boards.

I wonder if this is an inherent weakness of the MX design which relies on a metal leaf within the housing. It's generally not an issue I've noticed on MX boards though, it was only really on that Razer where it was so bad I was wondering if it was broken and that the QC process wasn't very good.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 08 July 2020, 11:01:45
I actually just noticed that my switch tester has two Razer green switches produced by Kailh. They both feel a bit different from each other, to be sure ... and so do the Cherry MX blues on the same tester. They seem to be to be roughly the same in unpleasant plastic rattle, etc. My sample size is small though. I already hated Razer by the time I had even heard they were making mechanicals, so I never did bother trying one of their boards.

I wonder if this is an inherent weakness of the MX design which relies on a metal leaf within the housing. It's generally not an issue I've noticed on MX boards though, it was only really on that Razer where it was so bad I was wondering if it was broken and that the QC process wasn't very good.

I think so, for the most part. Gaterons and Outemus always seemed to me to be the best of the bunch of the MX extended family that I have tried, though even the Gaterons aren't perfect in that regard, and the Outemus are definitely a slight step down from there. The only somewhat common MX clones I have found to feel and sound noticeably worse than the real MX blues were the cheap Zorro/Ajazz switches, which seem to most commonly sound and feel like you've just dropped a glass marble onto concrete and that it has bounced a few times.

For me, even after typing on an Outemu blue board for just a few minutes, I already start missing Alps, capacitive buckling spring, Matias, and box thick clicks. I think that at this point, even being a clicky guy, I may prefer some of the nicer tactiles, like Topre, or some of the nicer linears, like Gateron yellow, to MX blue. I know I can certainly type with alternatives such as those for extended periods without so abruptly asking myself why.

Sadly, I can't say that that's because I particularly like those switches so much as it is because I now particularly dislike MX blues, and it seems like they're a weak link even within the original MX family (browns aside).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mikhail on Tue, 14 July 2020, 17:56:14
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 14 July 2020, 18:18:29
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

What is it that you mean by DCS? Cherry sucks, so whatever it is, you're probably right.

Are you always in an environment where you can't just enjoy a clicky keyboard? They must always be quiet? That sounds, to me, like a life not worth living.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mikhail on Tue, 14 July 2020, 19:08:31
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

What is it that you mean by DCS? Cherry sucks, so whatever it is, you're probably right.

Are you always in an environment where you can't just enjoy a clicky keyboard? They must always be quiet? That sounds, to me, like a life not worth living.


DCS keycaps profile

Besides sound it's harder bottom out
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hpetrovski on Tue, 14 July 2020, 19:10:43
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

What is it that you mean by DCS? Cherry sucks, so whatever it is, you're probably right.

Are you always in an environment where you can't just enjoy a clicky keyboard? They must always be quiet? That sounds, to me, like a life not worth living.
https://i.imgur.com/kFxqOm8.jpg DCS is a cherry-ish profile usually manufactured by Signature Plastics nowadays. If you've seen Wyse terminal boards that looked like cherry profile, they were probably DCS. It's pretty similar honestly, it just has a more pronounced sculpt.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mikhail on Tue, 14 July 2020, 19:17:26
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

What is it that you mean by DCS? Cherry sucks, so whatever it is, you're probably right.

Are you always in an environment where you can't just enjoy a clicky keyboard? They must always be quiet? That sounds, to me, like a life not worth living.
https://i.imgur.com/kFxqOm8.jpg DCS is a cherry-ish profile usually manufactured by Signature Plastics nowadays. If you've seen Wyse terminal boards that looked like cherry profile, they were probably DCS. It's pretty similar honestly, it just has a more pronounced sculpt.

Yes, the more pronounced sculp is the thing. Cherry too flat.
Also NMB Hi-Tek keycaps, HHKB, and old BTC boards have similar type.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 14 July 2020, 21:37:07
DCS better than Cherry

Switches without dampers are not usable

What is it that you mean by DCS? Cherry sucks, so whatever it is, you're probably right.

Are you always in an environment where you can't just enjoy a clicky keyboard? They must always be quiet? That sounds, to me, like a life not worth living.
https://i.imgur.com/kFxqOm8.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/kFxqOm8.jpg) DCS is a cherry-ish profile usually manufactured by Signature Plastics nowadays. If you've seen Wyse terminal boards that looked like cherry profile, they were probably DCS. It's pretty similar honestly, it just has a more pronounced sculpt.

Yes, the more pronounced sculp is the thing. Cherry too flat.
Also NMB Hi-Tek keycaps, HHKB, and old BTC boards have similar type.




DCS's like poor man's Cherry.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: adsimilisjesu on Wed, 15 July 2020, 00:14:19
a good tactile is great for learning how to properly touch type and earnestly bring the feeling of a clicky and the quietness of a linear together well.

(most tactiles are garbage and just feel like dirty linears)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Wed, 15 July 2020, 00:48:46
DCS's like poor man's Cherry.

If only, it's usually as expensive if not more so!

It's certainly thinner, but I like the profile. The spacebar seems a bit sharp at first, but it's actually really nice to type on once you're used to it. I've never used a GMK set but I really like DCS  yuri on my blue alps TKL, it's rapidly becoming my favourite board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mikhail on Wed, 15 July 2020, 06:49:58
DCS's like poor man's Cherry.

If only, it's usually as expensive if not more so!

It's certainly thinner, but I like the profile. The spacebar seems a bit sharp at first, but it's actually really nice to type on once you're used to it. I've never used a GMK set but I really like DCS  yuri on my blue alps TKL, it's rapidly becoming my favourite board.

I've never used a GMK too, but I have OG doubleshots and OG Russian Cyrillic DyeSubs, and I more love DCS (old))
I agree that cherry looks stylish, OG & GMK have more quality and expensive looks, in the meantime DCS looks cheaper and hard to distinguish from OEM.
But deeper cylinders make them pretty comfortable, especially in games.
And in theory, no one bothers to do cherry mount caps with quality of Space Invaders Dye Subs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 15 July 2020, 07:58:35
DCS's like poor man's Cherry.

If only, it's usually as expensive if not more so!

It's certainly thinner, but I like the profile. The spacebar seems a bit sharp at first, but it's actually really nice to type on once you're used to it. I've never used a GMK set but I really like DCS  yuri on my blue alps TKL, it's rapidly becoming my favourite board.

I've never used a GMK too, but I have OG doubleshots and OG Russian Cyrillic DyeSubs, and I more love DCS (old))
I agree that cherry looks stylish, OG & GMK have more quality and expensive looks, in the meantime DCS looks cheaper and hard to distinguish from OEM.
But deeper cylinders make them pretty comfortable, especially in games.
And in theory, no one bothers to do cherry mount caps with quality of Space Invaders Dye Subs.


The DCS' rounder corners sucks, appeareance-wise, specially over 1u key caps. OG Cherry's sharper corners and denser feel is second to none. GMK's quality is so irregular that you can get a lemon set with a lot of defects, or something similar to OG's. Joining GMK's GB is just like play at the casino, nowadays.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 15 July 2020, 08:03:24
I hate myself for keep buying key caps while I have enough stock for my grandgrandsons' boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mikhail on Wed, 15 July 2020, 08:46:41
I hate myself for keep buying key caps while I have enough stock for my grandgrandsons' boards.

The sharp edges at the bottom are easy to damage with a puller. Not practical))

I think I’ll exchange OG Dye Subs for a lot of DCS caps one day))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: downtownHippie on Wed, 15 July 2020, 10:11:04
The Sun UNIX layout, (the core of HHKB) is the superior layout.  Why would you want a 2x wide backspace key...and why reach soooooo far to press ESC.

Course, if you're not a unix user you suck anyway so your opinion based on windows or mac computer use is pointless.

60% keyboards can't be for serious use, most KVM switches use the scroll-lock to change inputs, if you don't have more than one computer on your desk you suck anyway.

And the OSU/Nono keyboard is one of the coolest things ever produced around our community.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: WholesomeDucky on Wed, 15 July 2020, 10:48:28
The Sun UNIX layout, (the core of HHKB) is the superior layout.  Why would you want a 2x wide backspace key...and why reach soooooo far to press ESC.

Course, if you're not a unix user you suck anyway so your opinion based on windows or mac computer use is pointless.
I can agree. The second part might be a little heavy handed but I have found myself using split BS and ctrl-caps swap on most of my boards now
60% keyboards can't be for serious use, most KVM switches use the scroll-lock to change inputs, if you don't have more than one computer on your desk you suck anyway.
This, I definitely can't agree with. 60% boards can press scrl lock still. Hell, even my 40% can press scrl lock. KVMs aren't that popular, they're VERY niche, which is part of the reason they are so expensive.

I use Alice and sometimes Planck at work all day long (server work) and I'd gain nothing by using bigger boards. Also our hardened KVMs don't have a keyboard shortcut for switching, sadly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: downtownHippie on Wed, 15 July 2020, 11:34:38
Course, if you're not a unix user you suck anyway so your opinion based on windows or mac computer use is pointless.
I can agree. The second part might be a little heavy handed but I have found myself using split BS and ctrl-caps swap on most of my boards now

What cracks me up are people talking as if the cntrl-caps swap is the primary distinction between the 2 layouts.  For me, having typed on this layout for (geeze) pushing 30 years, the cntrl-caps thing is uninteresting, easy adaptation.  The change in location for the `~ and thus \| and backspace keys is what it's all about.  As a UNIX command-line user that's gold!

might have been heavy handed, but I was almost this guy when this was drawn...

http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/dilbert-unix.png

I miss when Scott was funny...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: WholesomeDucky on Wed, 15 July 2020, 11:37:54
Course, if you're not a unix user you suck anyway so your opinion based on windows or mac computer use is pointless.
I can agree. The second part might be a little heavy handed but I have found myself using split BS and ctrl-caps swap on most of my boards now

What cracks me up are people talking as if the cntrl-caps swap is the primary distinction between the 2 layouts.  For me, having typed on this layout for (geeze) pushing 30 years, the cntrl-caps thing is uninteresting, easy adaptation.  The change in location for the `~ and thus \| and backspace keys is what it's all about.  As a UNIX command-line user that's gold!

might have been heavy handed, but I was almost this guy when this was drawn...

http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/dilbert-unix.png

I miss when Scott was funny...
Yeah, on my QMK boards (or boards where I can otherwise do full remapping), I do the Sun Unix ~-\ with BS underneath, and I typically put ctrl in BOTH spots, since I have had 0 use for caps lock any time in the last 10 years, so it goes on a layer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: downtownHippie on Wed, 15 July 2020, 12:02:59
Yeah, on my QMK boards (or boards where I can otherwise do full remapping), I do the Sun Unix ~-\ with BS underneath, and I typically put ctrl in BOTH spots, since I have had 0 use for caps lock any time in the last 10 years, so it goes on a layer.

The only use I have for caps lock is to turn it on on someone else's computer when they're not looking.  And turn off their num lock.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Muchacho on Wed, 15 July 2020, 15:06:10
My unpopular opinions:

- Way more keyboards designers should reuse existing plate/pcb layout/shape/size, preferably compatible with popular companies. When I buy a keyboard I don't want to buy extra plates "just in case" I would like to have the option to easily find the extra parts 5 years or 50 years later. But right now most of the new keyboards are incompatible with previous parts...

- Keyboardism is now more about appearance (RGB, deskmat, twisted cables, RAMA) than intrinsic properties (longevity, feels, sounds). I'm just surprised about how the shape/design of the a keyboard makes them instabuyable even though we don't know much about everything else.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: downtownHippie on Wed, 15 July 2020, 16:13:17
- Keyboardism is now more about appearance (RGB, deskmat, twisted cables, RAMA) than intrinsic properties (longevity, feels, sounds). I'm just surprised about how the shape/design of the a keyboard makes them instabuyable even though we don't know much about everything else.

I noticed this a few years ago when life took me away from the hobby, it was becoming less and less about the tool and more and more about a fashion accessory.  I'm OK with that, I grew up with beige PC's...but the "fanboi entitled" attitudes are not cool
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 15 July 2020, 17:26:02
might have been heavy handed, but I was almost this guy when this was drawn...

http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/dilbert-unix.png

I miss when Scott was funny...

I had a math professor who looked exactly like that. The computer in his office was some old beige relic of the past that was running some Linux flavor with no window manager installed. Gentoo or something, I think. He said IT basically just left him alone. He seemed like a pretty nice guy to me.

Yeah, on my QMK boards (or boards where I can otherwise do full remapping), I do the Sun Unix ~-\ with BS underneath, and I typically put ctrl in BOTH spots, since I have had 0 use for caps lock any time in the last 10 years, so it goes on a layer.

The only use I have for caps lock is to turn it on on someone else's computer when they're not looking.  And turn off their num lock.


I don't think anybody uses caps lock

My unpopular opinions:

- Way more keyboards designers should reuse existing plate/pcb layout/shape/size, preferably compatible with popular companies. When I buy a keyboard I don't want to buy extra plates "just in case" I would like to have the option to easily find the extra parts 5 years or 50 years later. But right now most of the new keyboards are incompatible with previous parts...

I agree, but then how would they ever draw in buyers if they didn't throw in the latest pointless trendy thing, or better yet, design a new pointless thing that becomes popular? I imagine layout is another problem there, in the business sense. People seem to always want something unique. I think there's sometimes some merit there in terms of use of space, and maybe even efficiency, but it does usually seem pointless.

There's one relatively obvious solution: Buy an IBM Model F and use it for 50 years without replacement parts, and pass it down to your great grandchildren.  :thumb:


- Keyboardism is now more about appearance (RGB, deskmat, twisted cables, RAMA) than intrinsic properties (longevity, feels, sounds). I'm just surprised about how the shape/design of the a keyboard makes them instabuyable even though we don't know much about everything else.

I think this goes both ways, maybe. I neither understand the obsession with dampening, mounting type, stabilizers, etc, etc, nor do I understand the excess in focus on aesthetics. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

- Keyboardism is now more about appearance (RGB, deskmat, twisted cables, RAMA) than intrinsic properties (longevity, feels, sounds). I'm just surprised about how the shape/design of the a keyboard makes them instabuyable even though we don't know much about everything else.

I noticed this a few years ago when life took me away from the hobby, it was becoming less and less about the tool and more and more about a fashion accessory.  I'm OK with that, I grew up with beige PC's...but the "fanboi entitled" attitudes are not cool

Even having always been interested in IT, I never liked beige electronics. I've come to love it over time ... mostly due to the awesome bygone switches that could be found in the keyboards of old, I fear, and partly because of how entertainingly out-of-place it seems to be now in the modern world.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 15 July 2020, 18:08:17

I never liked beige electronics


That's easy. Just take off the case top and use it naked.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 16 July 2020, 01:41:23
What cracks me up are people talking as if the cntrl-caps swap is the primary distinction between the 2 layouts.  For me, having typed on this layout for (geeze) pushing 30 years, the cntrl-caps thing is uninteresting, easy adaptation.  The change in location for the `~ and thus \| and backspace keys is what it's all about.  As a UNIX command-line user that's gold!

Why is that move desirable though? Having `~ and \| near the shift keys is preferable for me. I hate reaching up to R1 when using ANSI boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: downtownHippie on Thu, 16 July 2020, 10:02:09
Why is that move desirable though? Having `~ and \| near the shift keys is preferable for me. I hate reaching up to R1 when using ANSI boards.

you must be ISO, you're still wasting space with that monster Enter key.  Man that thing is huge.  Does it actuate slower since it's so massive?  Has it ever rebounded into your finger and jammed it with the additional mass of plastic it must be :- )

I will gain the extra key (or 2) in the shift-key-space when my new PCB comes in, but it'll still be a unix layout (1x+1x bckspc), I'll just take advantage of the options for additional 1x's in the other locations...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 16 July 2020, 10:35:22
Why is that move desirable though? Having `~ and \| near the shift keys is preferable for me. I hate reaching up to R1 when using ANSI boards.

you must be ISO, you're still wasting space with that monster Enter key.  Man that thing is huge.  Does it actuate slower since it's so massive?  Has it ever rebounded into your finger and jammed it with the additional mass of plastic it must be :- )

I will gain the extra key (or 2) in the shift-key-space when my new PCB comes in, but it'll still be a unix layout (1x+1x bckspc), I'll just take advantage of the options for additional 1x's in the other locations...

nicely dodged answering my question there :p

ISO indeed. ISO enter isn’t about efficiency, it’s about satisfaction. I can adapt to ansi fine, but ansi enter will just never be as satisfying.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: downtownHippie on Thu, 16 July 2020, 12:07:00
nicely dodged answering my question there :p

ISO indeed. ISO enter isn’t about efficiency, it’s about satisfaction. I can adapt to ansi fine, but ansi enter will just never be as satisfying.

I don't have any experience with the ISO layout so I can't really comment relative to the locations of \| and `~.  And I don't know where you put your ESC key, but that's much more than an R1 reach - ESC may not a big key in the Windows world, but it's huge if you're an old school UNIX user and live in vi(m), and have vi keybindings on your command-line shell editing.  I give 60% users crap but only because I want the inverted-t and editing keys for the GUI world, but when I'm doing my UNIX thing...it's all inside the 60% frame.  Back in the day I used a VT220 keyboard, I typed cntrl-[ instead of ESC and lived well inside the 60% frame.

being a Sun/UNIX layout user, my selection of keyboard options is so limited it's easy to pick on other peoples choices - you have choices in the first place.  The spot in the world where I stand is sooooooooo tiny it's hard to throw sh__ at me.  And I'll drop this every time:

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AJM on Thu, 16 July 2020, 14:12:58
...you must be ISO, you're still wasting space with that monster Enter key. ....

If ISO is wasting space, how is it possible that it has one key more than ANSI?  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 16 July 2020, 17:17:07
Has [ISO Enter] ever rebounded into your finger and jammed it with the additional mass of plastic it must be :- )
Ditto about Left Shift. :-þ

At least in Cherry profile, a 2.25u Left Shift keycap does actually have more mass than a ISO Enter keycap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: m0rtem on Thu, 16 July 2020, 18:41:05
I don't get the love for anything smaller than a tenkeyless. That's all I can contribute ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Fri, 17 July 2020, 02:54:05
i guess my unpopular opinion is my love for Atlantis iso (a cross of a US layout with iso enter and the shorter shift key) it seems to be very disliked by most peoples who use iso though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Fri, 17 July 2020, 03:22:10
i guess my unpopular opinion is my love for Atlantis iso (a cross of a US layout with iso enter and the shorter shift key) it seems to be very disliked by most peoples who use iso though.

I've never heard of this term, nor can I find anything in google about it. Sounds like UK Macintosh layout. It's ANSI with an ISO return \| iin the nook of the return, `~ next to left shift and §± next to 1!

It's a great layout, I wish it were more popular, R4 `~ is never included in group buys :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Fri, 17 July 2020, 03:59:11
i've seen it referred a few times in IC as Atlantis iso when it is not quite enough for UK iso, my M122 from unicomp is like that but then it is unicomp, they make any layout under the sun and then some more, i never used a mac so i am very unfamiliar with their layout. mine does have `~ next to the one and a black key next to shift (\| on windows <> on debian)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Fri, 17 July 2020, 04:24:06
i've seen it referred a few times in IC as Atlantis iso when it is not quite enough for UK iso, my M122 from unicomp is like that but then it is unicomp, they make any layout under the sun and then some more, i never used a mac so i am very unfamiliar with their layout. mine does have `~ next to the one and a black key next to shift (\| on windows <> on debian)

https://deskthority.net/wiki/images/1/18/AEKII-front.jpg (https://deskthority.net/wiki/images/1/18/AEKII-front.jpg)

Like so. `~ is a printing error though, that backslash is a `. Apple weirdly stuck with this printing error for the UK AEK for no obvious reason, despite other european layouts getting it right like dutch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bliss on Fri, 17 July 2020, 05:33:03
i guess my unpopular opinion is my love for Atlantis iso (a cross of a US layout with iso enter and the shorter shift key) it seems to be very disliked by most peoples who use iso though.

I've never heard of this term, nor can I find anything in google about it. Sounds like UK Macintosh layout. It's ANSI with an ISO return \| iin the nook of the return, `~ next to left shift and §± next to 1!

It's a great layout, I wish it were more popular, R4 `~ is never included in group buys :(

We like to refer to it as 'partial British support' instead.

It is a mix of US over ISO and the UK layout, usually with #~ next to Enter and \| next to Shift. Notably, neither layout is completed by pBs and therefore it is an in-between 'Atlantic' solution.

Its popularity seems to come from the fact that it (pBs) avoids duplicate legends. However, a correct US implementation with \| next to the Enter key and <> next to the Shift key (terminal style) avoids the duplicate \| also and should be preferred over pBs.

Read more about the topic here:
http://www.farah.cl/Keyboardery/Why-Do-Keycap-Sets-have-so-many-Copies-of-the-Backslash-Pipe-Key/ (http://www.farah.cl/Keyboardery/Why-Do-Keycap-Sets-have-so-many-Copies-of-the-Backslash-Pipe-Key/)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Muchacho on Fri, 31 July 2020, 09:18:25
- The use of Discord as information feed is obscuring all the info for posterity. Nobody will be able to find all the useful information provided from any search engine. So it's basically dead information after a month or so. Where it can live forever on a forum.

- IC and GB runners are pretty bad to write information on there first page. One question can be asked 10 times in a thread and no FAQ will be written in the first page (which does not really mater most of the case because people don't read them fully before asking questions...).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: h40 on Fri, 31 July 2020, 18:09:41
- The use of Discord as information feed is obscuring all the info for posterity. Nobody will be able to find all the useful information provided from any search engine. So it's basically dead information after a month or so. Where it can live forever on a forum.

- IC and GB runners are pretty bad to write information on there first page. One question can be asked 10 times in a thread and no FAQ will be written in the first page (which does not really mater most of the case because people don't read them fully before asking questions...).

I've found Discord search functionality is actually pretty robust, though it isn't global across multiple servers. Also perhaps I'm an idiot but the geekhack search is garbage in my experience.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 01 August 2020, 07:45:05

the geekhack search is garbage in my experience.


I am atypical, I don't use social media and have never even attempted to search on something like reddit or dischord.

That said, I also find almost any search frustrating if "how you ask the question" is critical. But, as a long-time geekhack, user I am usually able to put a geekhack search into a more comprehensive context and find what I need.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Muchacho on Sat, 01 August 2020, 07:54:47
- The use of Discord as information feed is obscuring all the info for posterity. Nobody will be able to find all the useful information provided from any search engine. So it's basically dead information after a month or so. Where it can live forever on a forum.

- IC and GB runners are pretty bad to write information on there first page. One question can be asked 10 times in a thread and no FAQ will be written in the first page (which does not really mater most of the case because people don't read them fully before asking questions...).

I've found Discord search functionality is actually pretty robust, though it isn't global across multiple servers. Also perhaps I'm an idiot but the geekhack search is garbage in my experience.

Yes geekhack search is definitely garbage, but I found hundreds and hundreds of pages and a lot of useful information when I searched things via Google.

If I didn't found any information I wouldn't came across the website, or at least I wouldn't find it interesting, and I wouldn't have join. The more Discord is used the more geekhack is being deprecated.

That said, no one really care on Geekhack. Geekhack seems to be a relic of the past anyway, only exist because there is no proper alternative yet and above all because the community is already massive.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 04 August 2020, 01:34:08
How dare you. This is an unpopular opinion thread, but I didn't expect to be personally attacked! :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 04 August 2020, 01:56:36
- The use of Discord as information feed is obscuring all the info for posterity. Nobody will be able to find all the useful information provided from any search engine. So it's basically dead information after a month or so. Where it can live forever on a forum.

- IC and GB runners are pretty bad to write information on there first page. One question can be asked 10 times in a thread and no FAQ will be written in the first page (which does not really mater most of the case because people don't read them fully before asking questions...).

I've found Discord search functionality is actually pretty robust, though it isn't global across multiple servers. Also perhaps I'm an idiot but the geekhack search is garbage in my experience.

I think the point is that Discord is invisible from the main search engines like Google or Duckduckgo. Which is the way that most people on the internet search for information.

Most people don't use Discord, so for most people, information there is walled off and nonexistent.

Most forums don't have good search functionality, the standard way to fix this is just do a Google search with the "site:geekhack.org" parameter added.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 04 August 2020, 11:11:47
Geekhack seems to be a relic of the past anyway, only exist because there is no proper alternative yet and above all because the community is already massive.

Now there's a real unpopular opinion. I have a feeling that few will agree with that one. It is like a breath of fresh air to me to have a real forum around that's so active. More modern alternatives are usually very poorly organized, information flows in and out like water, never to be seen again (Reddit), waste endless resources on hideous/useless cosmetic flourishes and infuriating menu systems, or a combination of the above. For what they're meant to do, there's nothing better than an oldschool forum.

Do a lot of people even use the Discord? I never have. I can't think of many reasons why I would, though I use it every day to talk to friends. Discord is basically a glorified instant messenger. Its purpose is entirely different from a forum.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Tue, 04 August 2020, 12:00:39
Geekhack seems to be a relic of the past anyway, only exist because there is no proper alternative yet and above all because the community is already massive.

Now there's a real unpopular opinion. I have a feeling that few will agree with that one. It is like a breath of fresh air to me to have a real forum around that's so active. More modern alternatives are usually very poorly organized, information flows in and out like water, never to be seen again (Reddit), waste endless resources on hideous/useless cosmetic flourishes and infuriating menu systems, or a combination of the above. For what they're meant to do, there's nothing better than an oldschool forum.

Do a lot of people even use the Discord? I never have. I can't think of many reasons why I would, though I use it every day to talk to friends. Discord is basically a glorified instant messenger. Its purpose is entirely different from a forum.

Agreed. It's a pleasing small oasis that reminds me of forums I spent time on 15 years ago. Who remembers a reddit user name that isn't a famous meme account? it's totally impersonal. I've no interest in discord.

I'm happy for geekhack and deskthority to stay small, and have people interested in more than whatever the next trendy chocolate box four figure custom is.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Muchacho on Tue, 04 August 2020, 13:04:00
Geekhack seems to be a relic of the past anyway, only exist because there is no proper alternative yet and above all because the community is already massive.

Now there's a real unpopular opinion. I have a feeling that few will agree with that one. It is like a breath of fresh air to me to have a real forum around that's so active. More modern alternatives are usually very poorly organized, information flows in and out like water, never to be seen again (Reddit), waste endless resources on hideous/useless cosmetic flourishes and infuriating menu systems, or a combination of the above. For what they're meant to do, there's nothing better than an oldschool forum.

Do a lot of people even use the Discord? I never have. I can't think of many reasons why I would, though I use it every day to talk to friends. Discord is basically a glorified instant messenger. Its purpose is entirely different from a forum.

GeekHack is to me the best place to look for something, while I kind of agree with you on the organisation and the newer alternatives, not seeing the weakness is definitely being blind (as not seeing its strength).

As a newcomer here is the points I would work if I was handling the forum:

- Enable users to put a status on a thread, so we know for sure if a Interest Check is still ongoing or dead, or moved into a GB, we would also know if a GB is still active of ended, we could reopen a GB and mark it as a second round etc. Any user should also be able to "request a change" so the moderators can change it accordingly.

Currently all we have is a title change, that is never really changed often, a dead GB has the same place as a running GB and a fulfilled GB. This is truly exhausting while navigating.

- A better search engine, this a total waste, the point of a database is to be able to do queries, every single message are stored into a database.

- We don't know right away if we already click in a thread or not, I'm more interested in new threads than already visited ones. Even if it was the opposite I should be able to discriminate those two.

- Since the forum is old, we should have enforced some requirement when submitting a GB, every single time the same question appears "is it WK, WKL, ISO, ANSI only ?" Even if OP does not know yet, we should be able to get rid of all those pollution (the question itself is legitimate, but the fact that we see the question a dozen of time on one thread is not).

I know GeekHack is "just" a forum, but the point mentioned above are totally realistic.

Unrelated to GeekHack, and in my view, there is a lack of "unified database", there is no way to search for a specific keyboard, set of keycaps, having the release date, the specification etc. Where to buy ISO keyboards, ISO keycaps etc.

deskthority.net tried, but it's pretty much dead because it's in a form of a wiki, or because the community is dead.

I do believe it's because the hobby is still new, but there is nothing preventing something better to appear now.

[...] Its purpose is entirely different from a forum.

People are requesting a Discord link on every single topic. I don't like Discord for the reasons mentioned above but this is not true. People go to Discord to have update for GBs, it's the main form of updates for some people, even though this is not why Discord has been made.

Some functionality are different but some are similar. It's a place where you can discuss and exchange information.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 04 August 2020, 13:19:58

I do believe it's because the hobby is still new


I am kind of scratching my head reading your comments. Perhaps I am atypical (no perhaps about it) but I really don't think of "buying stuff" as being the reason that the forum exists.

To me, this is a forum for "discussing stuff" and although there is certainly buying and selling going on around the periphery, that is not the primary purpose of the forum.

And, also, the hobby and the forum were well-established when I started almost a decade ago.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 04 August 2020, 14:18:27
Geekhack seems to be a relic of the past anyway, only exist because there is no proper alternative yet and above all because the community is already massive.

Now there's a real unpopular opinion. I have a feeling that few will agree with that one. It is like a breath of fresh air to me to have a real forum around that's so active. More modern alternatives are usually very poorly organized, information flows in and out like water, never to be seen again (Reddit), waste endless resources on hideous/useless cosmetic flourishes and infuriating menu systems, or a combination of the above. For what they're meant to do, there's nothing better than an oldschool forum.

Do a lot of people even use the Discord? I never have. I can't think of many reasons why I would, though I use it every day to talk to friends. Discord is basically a glorified instant messenger. Its purpose is entirely different from a forum.

GeekHack is to me the best place to look for something, while I kind of agree with you on the organisation and the newer alternatives, not seeing the weakness is definitely being blind (as not seeing its strength).

I feel that we'll find that we may disagree on most of what is and is not a weakness.

As a newcomer here is the points I would work if I was handling the forum:

- Enable users to put a status on a thread, so we know for sure if a Interest Check is still ongoing or dead, or moved into a GB, we would also know if a GB is still active of ended, we could reopen a GB and mark it as a second round etc. Any user should also be able to "request a change" so the moderators can change it accordingly.

Currently all we have is a title change, that is never really changed often, a dead GB has the same place as a running GB and a fulfilled GB. This is truly exhausting while navigating.

Rule 3 from the group buys rules sticky is as follows:

Quote from: tsangan
Thread Closure: We understand that group buy threads are useful for much longer than classifieds threads. However, we would like to ensure that very old group buy threads for buys that have been completed for a significant amount of time are not bumped and occupying space that could be used by active interest checks or buys in the ordering stage. To this end, we would like group buy organizers to close their threads after items have been received and sufficient time has passed. When everyone has received their items, are happy with them, and there's no more business to be done on the buy, please close your thread. We will not be exceedingly strict about this rule, but may close threads that that are bumped out of the group buy graveyard of the last forum pages.


I would argue that a forum is maybe not an ideal place for group buys to begin with, but is there anything that's insufficient about the author of a thread putting something like "[closed]" in the title of a thread, locking the thread, and letting it rapidly fade from the front page of results that is insufficient? There is also already a "Report to moderator" link in the bottom right of every single post in a thread. Everything you mentioned seems to be accounted for when group buys are run responsibly.

I have barely even looked at that section though, so take that for whatever use it may be in practice. It just sounds to me like thread authors just aren't doing their due diligence if this is actually a problem ... which would still be a problem with any related changes.

- A better search engine, this a total waste, the point of a database is to be able to do queries, every single message are stored into a database.

You've got an objective point here. The search engine is not ideal. I think some would argue that any integrated search engine is pointless when you can easily do site searches from dedicated search engines that are already much more powerful/refined (Some websites used to integrate Google site searches into their websites instead of dedicated search tools. This worked perfectly. I'm not sure if it is still done.). I would be inclined to agree with them, personally, but a better search engine obviously has merits.

- We don't know right away if we already click in a thread or not, I'm more interested in new threads than already visited ones. Even if it was the opposite I should be able to discriminate those two.

Are you using some sort of strange theme? The title of every single thread I have already viewed with the default theme has a slightly darker hue of orange than those that I have not. If there's been a response since I last viewed it, it reverts to the unread color. This, again, is coming from someone who generally does not care at all about group buys and/or fads/trends. If I see a title that I find interesting, I click on it, if I do not ... I do not. If it was interesting the last time I clicked on it, I usually remember whether or not I have and decide whether or not to read new replies (I generally never even use the notify or watch buttons manually).

Now, I could conceive of this not being applicable to everyone, or all current uses of this forum. This, as well, makes me wonder whether or not they're well-suited to a forum, whatever they may be. What are situations in which this is insufficient? How would you improve the current system?

- Since the forum is old, we should have enforced some requirement when submitting a GB, every single time the same question appears "is it WK, WKL, ISO, ANSI only ?" Even if OP does not know yet, we should be able to get rid of all those pollution (the question itself is legitimate, but the fact that we see the question a dozen of time on one thread is not).

A list of messages is a list of messages. You would think that if it were asked once, the OP would update the first post to clarify. What is it that you're seeing as an inherent problem with the format? How would you improve this? Would you prefer something sort of like Reddit's nested comments? I could see this being potentially sort of helpful in this very limited scenario, if actually executed much better than it is on Reddit, since the way that navigation through such nested comments on Reddit is handled is so clunky that I often don't even dig very deeply into replies chained onto others, and you still end up seeing comments that essentially say the exact same thing as others ... because people still don't bother to read all of the previous unique comments.

I know GeekHack is "just" a forum, but the point mentioned above are totally realistic.

I wouldn't even say that GeekHack is "just" a forum. Forums are wonderful for exactly what they are. Some may be slightly better or worse than others in layout and function, but simple function and usability is part of their design philosophy and purpose.

Unrelated to GeekHack, and in my view, there is a lack of "unified database", there is no way to search for a specific keyboard, set of keycaps, having the release date, the specification etc. Where to buy ISO keyboards, ISO keycaps etc.

deskthority.net tried, but it's pretty much dead because it's in a form of a wiki, or because the community is dead.

I quite like wikis. Is there something wrong with that format? I don't think Deskthority is dead, it just focuses almost entirely on vintage boards from what I have read, and seen. I don't even have an account on there, ironically, (and correct me if I'm wrong) but it seems to me that people there generally don't care about the latest limited-run colorways, artisans, etc. The wiki is filled with fantastic information about vintage boards, and that's not really something that needs updating. I do believe that a wiki for GeekHack was ... attempted.


[...] Its purpose is entirely different from a forum.

People are requesting a Discord link on every single topic. I don't like Discord for the reasons mentioned above but this is not true. People go to Discord to have update for GBs, it's the main form of updates for some people, even though this is not why Discord has been made.

Some functionality are different but some are similar. It's a place where you can discuss and exchange information.

We must be looking in very different places. I rarely ever see any mention of a Discord server for GeekHack. I usually forget it exists at all. Group buys must explain that. I rarely ever look there.

You can discuss and exchange information by mail, even telegraph if there are still functioning lines somewhere. That doesn't make it relatively comparable to Discord (an instant messenger), or a forum, or social media, or a town hall meeting, etc.

It is curious that anybody would gravitate towards Discord for group buy updates. Maybe just because they have accounts and are always monitoring their activity? That seems like a worse platform for group buys than a forum, which I don't think fits that well to begin with.


I do believe it's because the hobby is still new

I am kind of scratching my head reading your comments. Perhaps I am atypical (no perhaps about it) but I really don't think of "buying stuff" as being the reason that the forum exists.

To me, this is a forum for "discussing stuff" and although there is certainly buying and selling going on around the periphery, that is not the primary purpose of the forum.

And, also, the hobby and the forum were well-established when I started almost a decade ago.

Yes, agreed on all counts. There's discussion of what to buy, where, etc, but then that can lead literally anywhere from there to make the actual purchase. This is all leading me more and more towards thinking that this is a group buy vs forum thing, and that they don't really even mesh perfectly to begin with in terms of purpose.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 18 August 2020, 01:38:33
Pulled out my buckling spring board today, haven't used it for over a decade.

MX and clone style switches are such mediocre garbage in comparison to this switch technology that was phased out decades ago. It's just weird that the current pinnacle of mechanical keyboards are fancy cases holding junky switches.

Granted, these BS switches are crazy noisy, but they feel so definite and responsive. And the noise is so much more solid sounding than the high pitched MX clicks. Typing on these things is a simply wonderful experience.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 13 September 2020, 18:15:15
I hate to see a new 65% or 75% that has a crippled nav-column. There should be four keys: Page Up, Page Down, Home and End.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 13 September 2020, 19:43:04
I hate to see a new 65% or 75% that has a crippled nav-column. There should be four keys: Page Up, Page Down, Home and End.

Totally agree. For some weird reason, there is usually one missing (is it End?) yet off memory there often a blank space left for branding, that could easily take the missing key.

I've adopted the SpaceFN functional layer for me keyboard which has been pretty good on the laptop, but still it's better to have discreet nav buttons.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sun, 13 September 2020, 23:20:17
I hate to see a new 65% or 75% that has a crippled nav-column. There should be four keys: Page Up, Page Down, Home and End.

One of the reasons I like the HMKB 75 layout, and maybe should have bought one.

(https://i.imgur.com/E04Ndns.png)

You can have 4 nav keys with that layout, or even 6 if you want to use the top keys. And there's spacing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 13 September 2020, 23:30:22
I hate to see a new 65% or 75% that has a crippled nav-column. There should be four keys: Page Up, Page Down, Home and End.

One of the reasons I like the HMKB 75 layout, and maybe should have bought one.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/E04Ndns.png)


You can have 4 nav keys with that layout, or even 6 if you want to use the top keys. And there's spacing.

Of all the group buys for 'standard' layout keyboards, Heavy Metal is the only one I've been tempted by. Sensible, functional layout and just so much more more interesting than the usual CNC options. But... I have enough keyboards already.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Mon, 14 September 2020, 01:29:11
The lack of Windows keys and resultant unnecessarily wide right Alt/Control keys is my only complaint. Perhaps they could've had more space if they eliminated the F13/Print keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Mon, 14 September 2020, 16:17:52
You might like this layout:

(https://i.imgur.com/4VcRRWb.jpg)

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=108118.0
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Mon, 14 September 2020, 19:11:01
Pulled out my buckling spring board today, haven't used it for over a decade.

MX and clone style switches are such mediocre garbage in comparison to this switch technology that was phased out decades ago. It's just weird that the current pinnacle of mechanical keyboards are fancy cases holding junky switches.

Granted, these BS switches are crazy noisy, but they feel so definite and responsive. And the noise is so much more solid sounding than the high pitched MX clicks. Typing on these things is a simply wonderful experience.

Yeah, I kind of backed my way into this when I got used to my Model M while working mostly from home. I now have something that feels OK and is probably quiet enough for work, but at home I'm probably going to stick with BS boards for now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Fri, 18 September 2020, 02:13:32
I genuinely love the sound of Cherry Blues.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 18 September 2020, 07:34:40
I genuinely love the sound of Cherry Blues.

Me too, perfect click and doesn't anger the god of spoons very much
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Fri, 18 September 2020, 10:11:26
I genuinely love the sound of Cherry Blues.

Me too, perfect click and doesn't anger the god of spoons very much

Scowls condescendingly in buckling spring
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Fri, 18 September 2020, 10:20:51
Buckling spring good Cherry blue bad . I only use Cherry blue housing to create franken switch and then throw out the stems ~

Edit: Unpopular opinion  - Model F sounds better without the ping
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Mon, 21 September 2020, 04:08:26
You might like this layout:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/4VcRRWb.jpg)


https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=108118.0
 
 
That's a great layout.

Scowls condescendingly in buckling spring
 
"Cringes"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: moroslogos on Mon, 21 September 2020, 08:21:09
I got an IBM beamspring recently, and I'm just whelmed. Not overwhelmed, not underwhelmed. Just whelmed. It feels ok and looks cool, but I don't think it is anything special
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 21 September 2020, 11:14:40
Yes that is a natural feeling  for beamspring - you think it's super super cool  and want it really badly,

and then when you get it, it just ends up being a Keyboard.

This happened to me for Model F and M0116 w/ Salmon Alps.
I'm selling both boards, I'd rather build custom keyboard than  having vintages.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: moroslogos on Tue, 22 September 2020, 04:11:44
Yeah, I'm leaning more to custom boards lately.

This beamspring has put me off vintage now. I think my Model F and Model M feel and sound way better

The beamspring is just way too hyped and I don't know why.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ainet on Tue, 22 September 2020, 05:23:08
I don't find any reason to buy a Keycult when Rama exist
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Tue, 22 September 2020, 13:16:21
I don't find any reason to buy a Keycult when Rama exist
Keycult gets more hype because it's limited run. I don't mind it though, I want to flex too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Tue, 22 September 2020, 15:32:53
I don't find any reason to buy a Keycult when Rama exist

Exactly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Wed, 23 September 2020, 00:40:41
I don't find any reason to buy a Keycult when Rama exist
but is there any reason why not, i do see a reason for ibm to exist when water exist, but does not mean one need to disappear.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Wed, 23 September 2020, 08:52:09
I don't find any reason to buy a Keycult when Rama exist
but is there any reason why not, i do see a reason for ibm to exist when water exist, but does not mean one need to disappear.

Yes Yui good comment ^_^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Wed, 23 September 2020, 08:54:11
I'm selling both boards

Is it an F AT? Because I’d want one.  ;D

-----------

Unpopular opinion as of today: Linear switches are worse than Rubber Domes in terms of keyfeel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Wed, 23 September 2020, 08:59:08
I'm selling both boards

Is it an F AT? Because I’d want one.  ;D

-----------

Unpopular opinion as of today: Linear switches are worse than Rubber Domes in terms of keyfeel.
Yes but I have to fix the spacebar and find keycaps for the numpad ^_^
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: no, the other guy on Wed, 23 September 2020, 09:01:13
Model F keycaps are relatively easy to find. The spacebar is a problem though.  :blank:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nappis on Fri, 09 October 2020, 10:50:03
Plate mounted stabs are better. Easier to fix/replace. Sound way better. More robust design because nothing is hitting directly the PCB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BitterMango on Mon, 12 October 2020, 17:12:33
Heavy modern metal cases of anodized aluminium, extremely polished steel or brass etc. for keyboards are the equivalent of driving a gold plated Lamborghini on city streets - bordering on pointless vanity. Not only is metal as a case material completely unnecessary (I've never seen even a 10$ rubber dome with a plastic case significantly wear under normal use) it adds nothing particularly tangible to the durability of the keyboard itself since the case just hides the same, more or less cheap PCB's inside that every mech keeb has. At least an expensive sports car gets you a sports engine. Metal cases serve nothing more than for conspicuous consumption and to create artificial luxury tiers in the hobby.

Old metal keyboards get a free pass on this because it was thought at the time that computers would last and not become obsolete so quickly. There was also a clear marriage between form and function, even if they were overbuilt - something modern keebs lack.

It doesn't mean I dislike metal cases or that all of them (or even most) are tacky.

 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Tue, 13 October 2020, 00:19:54
Heavy modern metal cases of anodized aluminium, extremely polished steel or brass etc. for keyboards are the equivalent of driving a gold plated Lamborghini on city streets - bordering on pointless vanity. Not only is metal as a case material completely unnecessary (I've never seen even a 10$ rubber dome with a plastic case significantly wear under normal use) it adds nothing particularly tangible to the durability of the keyboard itself since the case just hides the same, more or less cheap PCB's inside that every mech keeb has. At least an expensive sports car gets you a sports engine. Metal cases serve nothing more than for conspicuous consumption and to create artificial luxury tiers in the hobby.
 
 
Metal cases aren't as expensive as  you make them out to be. You can, like me, buy a well-made full aluminum case with an insert for somewhere around $100 from KBDfans to try out a metal case keyboard, and it noticeably alters the typing experience. Not saying that it's superior, but it is very obviously different and considering that everyone here had been typing on plastic-case MX keyboards for years to decades, it's no wonder that a more expensive new alternative is prized over default plastic. Because let's be real here, what would differentiate, say, a custom keyboard with a plastic case from any stock board with the same layout? There's only so much you can change.   
 
I personally still use and prefer a plastic case Realforce over my metal-case MX keyboard, as it's comfortable to use; many like the even softer experience of an HHKB, which lacks a stiff plate. 
 
Anyways, that refutes the point of it being completely unnecessary, as it was never about durability, it was always about typing feel and a different experience. 
 
Onto pointless vanity, that much is most likely true! However, many people in the community make a good living. To them, a thousand dollars or more on a keyboard is an insignificant amount of money, so why not bother making it as nice as possible to show off? People like having nice things, and keyboards are not an expensive hobby by any comparison.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Tue, 13 October 2020, 01:10:45
(I've never seen even a 10$ rubber dome with a plastic case significantly wear under normal use)
compare that to my 2 years old M where the case is significantly worn, it as lost most of the texture on the bottom and side bezels, to be fair i use it about 8 hours a day and i am a web dev so it sees a lot of use.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Tue, 13 October 2020, 10:04:23
Heavy modern metal cases of anodized aluminium, extremely polished steel or brass etc. for keyboards are the equivalent of driving a gold plated Lamborghini on city streets - bordering on pointless vanity. Not only is metal as a case material completely unnecessary (I've never seen even a 10$ rubber dome with a plastic case significantly wear under normal use) it adds nothing particularly tangible to the durability of the keyboard itself since the case just hides the same, more or less cheap PCB's inside that every mech keeb has. At least an expensive sports car gets you a sports engine. Metal cases serve nothing more than for conspicuous consumption and to create artificial luxury tiers in the hobby.

Old metal keyboards get a free pass on this because it was thought at the time that computers would last and not become obsolete so quickly. There was also a clear marriage between form and function, even if they were overbuilt - something modern keebs lack.

It doesn't mean I dislike metal cases or that all of them (or even most) are tacky.
I like metal keebs and brass weights, but they're definitely more gaudy than, say, RGB or shine-through keycaps, and it's weird seeing keyboard guys get up in arms about that while paying $50-$100 for brass artisans or hundreds of dollars for polished metal case weights.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 13 October 2020, 11:00:09
It's not so clear-cut. I think one of the reasons metal frames are popular in the enthusiast community is that I assume it is easier to do a small run of alum cases than injection-molded plastic, especially if you are doing several colours.

Don't you need a huge setup to efficiently churn out plastic cases? Big initial investment, but then afterwards the cases are cheap.

With metal, you can do it in a medium-sized setup, or even a small shop. Like the steel HMKB, that's a small operation. So you can get your metal keyboard with choice of coloured case in a limited production run at a price that wouldn't be feasable with plastic?

I suppose I'm saying that production issues play a key role in case selection and availability.

That being said, I think plastic is underrated among enthusiasts. I've been running a Filco MJ2 since 2016 or so, and the case has virtually no wear. They are often better-sounding than metal cases, and don't give you static shock.

But you can produce monster metal cases that are just better than the equivalent plastic. Try the plastic case on a TADA68, and then the alum one, which was one of the cheapest out there back in the day. Massive improvement in typing experience IMHO, and more colour availability with the metal.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BitterMango on Thu, 15 October 2020, 17:01:28
It's not so clear-cut. I think one of the reasons metal frames are popular in the enthusiast community is that I assume it is easier to do a small run of alum cases than injection-molded plastic, especially if you are doing several colours.

Don't you need a huge setup to efficiently churn out plastic cases? Big initial investment, but then afterwards the cases are cheap.

With metal, you can do it in a medium-sized setup, or even a small shop. Like the steel HMKB, that's a small operation. So you can get your metal keyboard with choice of coloured case in a limited production run at a price that wouldn't be feasable with plastic?

I suppose I'm saying that production issues play a key role in case selection and availability.

That being said, I think plastic is underrated among enthusiasts. I've been running a Filco MJ2 since 2016 or so, and the case has virtually no wear. They are often better-sounding than metal cases, and don't give you static shock.

But you can produce monster metal cases that are just better than the equivalent plastic. Try the plastic case on a TADA68, and then the alum one, which was one of the cheapest out there back in the day. Massive improvement in typing experience IMHO, and more colour availability with the metal.

It was a bit of deliberate hyperbole on my part. There are good reasons why metal cases are available and the prices at which they're sold. I do however think that we're in a situation in which there's a bit too much expensive bling at the highest level of customs, and too many' affordable' options at the lower level (dime a dozen china kits, gamer boards etc.) - and a gap in the middle that could have been filled with a lot of creative solutions (in plastic). The value placed on metal as the premium case material is a part of it I feel, and plastic has been somewhat unjustly neglected. The economics of injection molding perhaps play a part but perceptions do as well. After all the B-BOX variants are sold for 30$, so it's possible to make small and affordable runs.

Personally, one of the charms of the hobby (for me) is the option to relive the aesthetics of 80's computers, but a lot of what I find that's trying to pass itself off as retro is in fact completely modern bling and quite overproduced compared to old computers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: BitterMango on Thu, 15 October 2020, 17:06:51
Heavy modern metal cases of anodized aluminium, extremely polished steel or brass etc. for keyboards are the equivalent of driving a gold plated Lamborghini on city streets - bordering on pointless vanity. Not only is metal as a case material completely unnecessary (I've never seen even a 10$ rubber dome with a plastic case significantly wear under normal use) it adds nothing particularly tangible to the durability of the keyboard itself since the case just hides the same, more or less cheap PCB's inside that every mech keeb has. At least an expensive sports car gets you a sports engine. Metal cases serve nothing more than for conspicuous consumption and to create artificial luxury tiers in the hobby.

Old metal keyboards get a free pass on this because it was thought at the time that computers would last and not become obsolete so quickly. There was also a clear marriage between form and function, even if they were overbuilt - something modern keebs lack.

It doesn't mean I dislike metal cases or that all of them (or even most) are tacky.
I like metal keebs and brass weights, but they're definitely more gaudy than, say, RGB or shine-through keycaps, and it's weird seeing keyboard guys get up in arms about that while paying $50-$100 for brass artisans or hundreds of dollars for polished metal case weights.

It's a tough all to say what's more or less gaudy (I was a pretty hardcore gamer, but moved past the Razer aesthetics behind a long time ago) but in a hobby that's literally about pimping out the thing that most people use but don't even notice it exists (let alone have an aesthetic opinion on it) taking the high ground is a bit of a joke (albeit typical for all communities centered on hobbies where money can be spent in 'tiers).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Thu, 15 October 2020, 17:43:01

It was a bit of deliberate hyperbole on my part. There are good reasons why metal cases are available and the prices at which they're sold. I do however think that we're in a situation in which there's a bit too much expensive bling at the highest level of customs, and too many' affordable' options at the lower level (dime a dozen china kits, gamer boards etc.) - and a gap in the middle that could have been filled with a lot of creative solutions (in plastic). The value placed on metal as the premium case material is a part of it I feel, and plastic has been somewhat unjustly neglected. The economics of injection molding perhaps play a part but perceptions do as well. After all the B-BOX variants are sold for 30$, so it's possible to make small and affordable runs.

I agree with the lack of a middle-ground. I think the KBD8x mkii is so popular because it offers a decent build [polycarb or metal] with top-mount, decent PCB, etc... at a price closer to entry-level. This is where KBDFans excels, when they know what they are doing.

Some of the new GBs are interesting, like the IKKI68 Aurora, in that they plan to offer a nice design and some good colours in polycarb at near-entry-level price. This is what we need more of. It was maybe Novelkeys who paved the way with the NK68, although that board is too close to entry-level.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 19 October 2020, 22:03:27
I agree
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Current Keyboards on Mon, 19 October 2020, 23:01:22
Fusion 360 is horrible CAD and should be avoided at all costs.

Come at me. haha
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Tue, 20 October 2020, 00:43:33
Fusion 360 is horrible CAD and should be avoided at all costs.

Come at me. haha
i do agree somewhat, i just find them all horribly unfriendly to use, apart from openSCAD but that may be my programing background
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Tue, 20 October 2020, 00:55:48
Fusion 360 is horrible CAD and should be avoided at all costs.

Come at me. haha

Try NX sometime...half the stability of Pro/E with twice the clicks. And don't even get me started on the Cluster f#$$% that is Team Center.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nonnegaard on Tue, 20 October 2020, 03:44:37
This is probably quite popular, but modern clickies are horrible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fluxlab on Tue, 20 October 2020, 12:52:07
Winkeyless is overrated
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Wed, 21 October 2020, 07:04:33
Winkeyless is overrated
i dunno there is still a lot more keyboards with winkeys than without, and i do like the notch between ctrl and alt make them easier to find, although i do understand their use and all my keyboards have a gui key programmed somewhere, and a menu key also
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: penatbater on Wed, 21 October 2020, 09:46:26
I think the TKL layout sucks. Most people use around 4 of the extra 9 nav keys there, so there's a lot of space wasted. A 75 or a 65 does the same job while keeping things more compact. Plus, it looks kinda funny.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 21 October 2020, 11:07:12
Even after all these years, this thread is still like 80% popular opinions. Never change yall  :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Wed, 21 October 2020, 20:59:48
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 21 October 2020, 21:19:38
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.

Tactile boards on the other hand I really only enjoy... rubber domes.

it all makes sense
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Wed, 21 October 2020, 21:22:45
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.

Tactile boards on the other hand I really only enjoy... rubber domes.

it all makes sense

What makes sense? Care to explain?

Or did you just feel insulted by my post so you took something out of context in a lame attempt to make me look "bad"?  :thumb:

By all means, reply to my post and disagree, even call me an idiot. I don't care. But please don't take things I said out of context and be passive aggressive about it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 21 October 2020, 22:03:52
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.

Tactile boards on the other hand I really only enjoy... rubber domes.

it all makes sense

What makes sense? Care to explain?

Or did you just feel insulted by my post so you took something out of context in a lame attempt to make me look "bad"?  :thumb:

By all means, reply to my post and disagree, even call me an idiot. I don't care. But please don't take things I said out of context and be passive aggressive about it.

it was just a joke lol. gh is a lot more fun if you don't take yourself too seriously
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Wed, 21 October 2020, 22:50:01
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.

Tactile boards on the other hand I really only enjoy... rubber domes.

it all makes sense

What makes sense? Care to explain?

Or did you just feel insulted by my post so you took something out of context in a lame attempt to make me look "bad"?  :thumb:

By all means, reply to my post and disagree, even call me an idiot. I don't care. But please don't take things I said out of context and be passive aggressive about it.

it was just a joke lol. gh is a lot more fun if you don't take yourself too seriously
I apologize, the sarcasm doesn't come across well over text. I'll keep it in mind  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 21 October 2020, 23:30:33
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.

Tactile boards on the other hand I really only enjoy... rubber domes.

it all makes sense

What makes sense? Care to explain?

Or did you just feel insulted by my post so you took something out of context in a lame attempt to make me look "bad"?  :thumb:

By all means, reply to my post and disagree, even call me an idiot. I don't care. But please don't take things I said out of context and be passive aggressive about it.

it was just a joke lol. gh is a lot more fun if you don't take yourself too seriously
I apologize, the sarcasm doesn't come across well over text. I'll keep it in mind  :thumb:

 :-* :-*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Thu, 22 October 2020, 22:20:49
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.

I'd agree about the highly dubious value proposition, but I don't think that people are making truckloads of money out of this. CNC machining costs are high and have no economies of scale as it's such a time intensive process, and keycap sets and switch batches are pretty small when compared to commercial amounts, and there is probably a lot more to-and-fro than with standardised commercial orders.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 23 October 2020, 02:35:47
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.

I'd agree about the highly dubious value proposition, but I don't think that people are making truckloads of money out of this.

you'd be surprised
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Fri, 23 October 2020, 12:49:18
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.
I'd say High end audio comes to mind. How in the world is a $2000 power cord going to make any difference on how your gear sounds??????

Hmmm, maybe it's no coincidence that Drop caters to both of those markets :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 23 October 2020, 20:45:51

I'd say High end audio comes to mind.


I agree, that is a good comparison.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 23 October 2020, 22:30:57
flipped spacebars were always cool
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nonnegaard on Mon, 26 October 2020, 03:07:13
flipped spacebars were always cool
who said they werent
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 26 October 2020, 04:04:35
I do not understand how i find browns way too light and red the right weight as, as far as, i know both are 45g. i don't even know if it is unpopular but given how popular browns are i think it could fit the bill.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 26 October 2020, 10:45:33
I do not understand how i find browns way too light and red the right weight as, as far as, i know both are 45g. i don't even know if it is unpopular but given how popular browns are i think it could fit the bill.


Maybe you type turned down and gravity helps your fingers.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 26 October 2020, 20:11:34
I find browns good weight  and reds too light. You are weird Yui
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 26 October 2020, 22:30:16
Space Invader switches are drastically underrated and need to make a comeback
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Tue, 27 October 2020, 01:45:18
I find browns good weight  and reds too light. You are weird Yui
i think we are both, and i think pretty much everyone here is weird in some way
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Tue, 27 October 2020, 10:14:20
Space Invader switches are drastically underrated and need to make a comeback
Along with awesome slider over dome designs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ItIsWritten on Tue, 27 October 2020, 18:41:01
It seems to me that smaller keyboard sizes have more to do with wanting to be different than actual usefulness. There's a reason commercial boards still use the AT layout. It was developed with extensive user input.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 27 October 2020, 19:02:32
It seems to me that smaller keyboard sizes have more to do with wanting to be different than actual usefulness. There's a reason commercial boards still use the AT layout. It was developed with extensive user input.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk


I would like to bring to the table that in some cases, like mine, I began using a sixty out of need. Using the trackball at a more centered position cured the carpal tunnel pain; the full size keyboard kepth the trackball too far from the center, causing a wrist tortion that developed the syndrome.


I may be the exception, but the sixty format actually solved my problem. I use the computer over eight hours per day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 27 October 2020, 20:01:10
flipped spacebars were always cool
who said they werent

you shoulda seen this place a few years ago..


Space Invader switches are drastically underrated and need to make a comeback

it's too bad that a little dirt will ruin them, cause clean black invaders are smooth af. and between "space invader" and "angry bear", they have both of the two coolest names.


It seems to me that smaller keyboard sizes have more to do with wanting to be different than actual usefulness. There's a reason commercial boards still use the AT layout. It was developed with extensive user input.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk

some of us just don't use the function row/numpad, not that crazy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Wed, 28 October 2020, 00:35:23
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.

I'd agree about the highly dubious value proposition, but I don't think that people are making truckloads of money out of this.

I don't think the people who are designing the custom keycaps are making truckloads of money but companies like GMK surely are.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Wed, 28 October 2020, 02:16:55
It seems to me that smaller keyboard sizes have more to do with wanting to be different than actual usefulness. There's a reason commercial boards still use the AT layout. It was developed with extensive user input.
we do not use the AT layout really anymore it had quite a few revisions along the way, and it was developed to be useful to all peoples while customs are for you and only you, for typing text a 60% is plenty for terminal use 122% is better and for stock exchange it needs even more keys, depends on what you need, and tbh numpads looks good but if you are not crunching numbers all day long, are fairly useless
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Wed, 28 October 2020, 17:22:45
Unpopular opinion as of today: Linear switches are worse than Rubber Domes in terms of keyfeel.

I actually think top tier rubber domes feel better than most mechanical tactile switches too. I do prefer linears for stuff like gaming and certain macros though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 28 October 2020, 18:40:31
Unpopular opinion as of today: Linear switches are worse than Rubber Domes in terms of keyfeel.

I actually think top tier rubber domes feel better than most mechanical tactile switches too. I do prefer linears for stuff like gaming and certain macros though.




Most off-the-shelve keyboards are better than mechanical ones. We do not know what we are doing here, having a conversation about such old junk. We are lost, expending money on obsolete switches, while PC components manufacturers know better than us and offer the best in input devices already. We are such a bunch of old farts wasting time and money.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 28 October 2020, 18:42:04
Custom mechs are probably the most wasteful and inane hobby where companies price gouge morons out of their money. Enjoy your 150 dollar designer MX switches and 120 dollar+ caps while the companies are probably enjoying insane margins.

I'd agree about the highly dubious value proposition, but I don't think that people are making truckloads of money out of this.

I don't think the people who are designing the custom keycaps are making truckloads of money but companies like GMK surely are.

even as much as keyboards have blown up in the last year or two, I think you still vastly overestimate how much money there is to be made offering largely a single service to a niche hobby
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Wed, 28 October 2020, 19:34:40
Unpopular opinion as of today: Linear switches are worse than Rubber Domes in terms of keyfeel.

I actually think top tier rubber domes feel better than most mechanical tactile switches too. I do prefer linears for stuff like gaming and certain macros though.
Laughs manically in Buckling spring
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Wed, 28 October 2020, 20:28:54

I actually think top tier rubber domes feel better than most mechanical tactile switches too. I do prefer linears for stuff like gaming and certain macros though.

Is that really an unpopular opinion, though? Premium rubber-domes have a significant following.

Which 'top-tier rubber domes' feel better than most mechanical tactiles? MX tactility is a widely-acknowledged problem.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ItIsWritten on Wed, 28 October 2020, 20:38:51
flipped spacebars were always cool
who said they werent

you shoulda seen this place a few years ago..


Space Invader switches are drastically underrated and need to make a comeback

it's too bad that a little dirt will ruin them, cause clean black invaders are smooth af. and between "space invader" and "angry bear", they have both of the two coolest names.


It seems to me that smaller keyboard sizes have more to do with wanting to be different than actual usefulness. There's a reason commercial boards still use the AT layout. It was developed with extensive user input.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk

some of us just don't use the function row/numpad, not that crazy
Yes, but that doesn't mean that leaving then out makes for a better board...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 28 October 2020, 21:04:17
flipped spacebars were always cool
who said they werent

you shoulda seen this place a few years ago..


Space Invader switches are drastically underrated and need to make a comeback

it's too bad that a little dirt will ruin them, cause clean black invaders are smooth af. and between "space invader" and "angry bear", they have both of the two coolest names.


It seems to me that smaller keyboard sizes have more to do with wanting to be different than actual usefulness. There's a reason commercial boards still use the AT layout. It was developed with extensive user input.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk

some of us just don't use the function row/numpad, not that crazy
Yes, but that doesn't mean that leaving then out makes for a better board...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk
it does when it means my board doesn't have a massive footprint

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Thu, 29 October 2020, 02:57:09

I actually think top tier rubber domes feel better than most mechanical tactile switches too. I do prefer linears for stuff like gaming and certain macros though.

Is that really an unpopular opinion, though? Premium rubber-domes have a significant following.

Which 'top-tier rubber domes' feel better than most mechanical tactiles? MX tactility is a widely-acknowledged problem.

To be honest I overall enjoy most dome with sliders over my alps tactile boards though I've never tried orange alps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NassimO on Sun, 01 November 2020, 01:25:25
I prefer keyboards with the numpad on the left.

 :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Sun, 01 November 2020, 01:30:25
I prefer keyboards with the numpad on the left.

 :p
Southpaw/Lefthanded numpads are way easier to use for right handed people. I'm kind of surprised they aren't standard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NassimO on Sun, 01 November 2020, 02:03:42
I prefer keyboards with the numpad on the left.

 :p
Southpaw/Lefthanded numpads are way easier to use for right handed people. I'm kind of surprised they aren't standard.

Right ? I was kinda skeptical when i saw this for the first time but i wanted to try it so i got one and oh boy does it feel incredible to use. Especially when you have to type values, you can simply use your left hand and keep the right one on the mouse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Learis on Sun, 01 November 2020, 12:26:59
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Sun, 01 November 2020, 13:07:28
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

In my case, it's to deal with my fat fingers : (https://i.imgur.com/MxAJXbt.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sun, 01 November 2020, 14:47:04
I used to think like that

but then I had to type for long sessions. Now even TX 65g long spring feels a little tiring to type on the linear switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sun, 01 November 2020, 14:48:56
Oh, I forgot this is unpopular opinion. I guess I am part of the popular opinion then.


One Unpopular Opinion I have  is  that I don't like flexible plate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Learis on Sun, 01 November 2020, 17:23:18
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

In my case, it's to deal with my fat fingers

That's understandable. But it just seems like 90% of the community wants somewhere between 60-70g switches, or at least the market is mostly catering to that resistance. Hehe, I compare gat reds at 45g to gat clears at 35g and it's night and day almost. Also, higher resistance switches force you to exert more force which can cause a more jarring bottom out. You can type more gently with lighter ones so it seems like the preferable choice for long sessions. If you look at stenographers who have to type non-stop, they have special switches and keyboards that can be sub 20g actuation!

That ends my thesis on why I'm right and the world's wrong. As far as fat fingers goes, it makes me wonder if there's specific keycaps designed with fat fingers in mind... maybe more surface area on them or something :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Polymer on Sun, 01 November 2020, 18:01:41
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

In my case, it's to deal with my fat fingers

That's understandable. But it just seems like 90% of the community wants somewhere between 60-70g switches, or at least the market is mostly catering to that resistance. Hehe, I compare gat reds at 45g to gat clears at 35g and it's night and day almost. Also, higher resistance switches force you to exert more force which can cause a more jarring bottom out. You can type more gently with lighter ones so it seems like the preferable choice for long sessions. If you look at stenographers who have to type non-stop, they have special switches and keyboards that can be sub 20g actuation!

That ends my thesis on why I'm right and the world's wrong. As far as fat fingers goes, it makes me wonder if there's specific keycaps designed with fat fingers in mind... maybe more surface area on them or something :)

Nowhere near 90% of the community is between 60-70g actuation.  Also, most of these springs nowadays are rated at bottom out...which puts 60-70g springs at 40-55g actuation. 

If you mean 60-70g bottom out then you're comparing apples to oranges because you're comparing bottom out weight to actuation weight of another switch. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Sun, 01 November 2020, 18:11:40
[As far as fat fingers goes, it makes me wonder if there's specific keycaps designed with fat fingers in mind... maybe more surface area on them or something :)

MT3 is working out really well for me. Just got a set of Susuwatari for my next build.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Learis on Sun, 01 November 2020, 23:00:19

Nowhere near 90% of the community is between 60-70g actuation.  Also, most of these springs nowadays are rated at bottom out...which puts 60-70g springs at 40-55g actuation. 

If you mean 60-70g bottom out then you're comparing apples to oranges because you're comparing bottom out weight to actuation weight of another switch.

My mistake. I get confused. Some people/companies list by the actuation while others list by the bottom out. I would be genuinely surprised if anything with a 60-70g bottom out had below a 45g actuation though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 01 November 2020, 23:31:48
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

Well, that's certainly an unpopular opinion.

Only time I have encountered a 35g actuation board was on a variable Realforce, and I couldn't fathom how anyone could type on one of those things, without accidental keypresses all over the place.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 02 November 2020, 16:48:45
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

In my case, it's to deal with my fat fingers

That's understandable. But it just seems like 90% of the community wants somewhere between 60-70g switches, or at least the market is mostly catering to that resistance. Hehe, I compare gat reds at 45g to gat clears at 35g and it's night and day almost. Also, higher resistance switches force you to exert more force which can cause a more jarring bottom out. You can type more gently with lighter ones so it seems like the preferable choice for long sessions. If you look at stenographers who have to type non-stop, they have special switches and keyboards that can be sub 20g actuation!

Yeah but I have to assume that the very non-traditional method that stenos use to type has something to do with that
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: arydi on Wed, 04 November 2020, 18:54:40
Maybe it's because I learned to touch type on a Royal mechanical typewriter that I prefer heavy tactile switches.   For me, it doesn't get much better than 78g Zilents with MT3 or DSS.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dotor on Wed, 04 November 2020, 19:29:31
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

Well, that's certainly an unpopular opinion.

Only time I have encountered a 35g actuation board was on a variable Realforce, and I couldn't fathom how anyone could type on one of those things, without accidental keypresses all over the place.

I remember when my co-worker brought his MX speed silvers in and I would actuate keys just while resting my fingers on the keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kavik on Thu, 05 November 2020, 22:25:17
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

For a long time I thought I hated linear switches, but I actually just hated MX Reds because they are so light that I make a bunch of mistakes; I guess I'd describe the feeling as "sloppy". A couple of years ago, I experimented with 100g MX Silent Blacks, and they were a *tad* too heavy; however, now I enjoy regular MX Blacks and BOX Yellows because they have a really "cushioned" feel to them. I actually find that I don't bottom out as hard on these as with lighter switches because of that cushioned feeling.

I do also like heavy clicky switches like BOX Navy, but they definitely do cause harsh bottom-outs because of the added resistance of the click bar.

The only heavy switch I didn't much care for was BOX Royal. Something about both heavy and extreme tactility just made my fingers really tired, to the point of aching sometimes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: markanini on Sun, 08 November 2020, 13:44:16
Almost all aftermarket key cap sets look bad. How is the vintage computer enthusiast look a step up from stock?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rxc92 on Mon, 09 November 2020, 00:49:24
Almost all aftermarket key cap sets look bad. How is the vintage computer enthusiast look a step up from stock?
 
 
Lots of users are in their thirties+? It wasn't until recently that younger kids started being a big demographic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: markanini on Tue, 10 November 2020, 03:25:47
Almost all aftermarket key cap sets look bad. How is the vintage computer enthusiast look a step up from stock?
 
 
Lots of users are in their thirties+? It wasn't until recently that younger kids started being a big demographic.
If so that implies no demographic is providing demand for more timeless designs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dtywill on Tue, 10 November 2020, 05:18:07
While I am guilty of it myself, I don't really understand why we are all so obsessed with the bottom of the keyboard.   We never see it unless we lift it up to see and then the other 99% of the time you can't see any of it.  But gotta have the best brass/stainless steel/whatever material weight we can find so that it can just sit on our desk hidden lol
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 10 November 2020, 05:24:31
Almost all aftermarket key cap sets look bad. How is the vintage computer enthusiast look a step up from stock?
 
 
Lots of users are in their thirties+? It wasn't until recently that younger kids started being a big demographic.

you'd be surprised how many of the biggest vintage enthusiasts are in their teens/early twenties
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Protato_Tubby on Tue, 10 November 2020, 05:34:45
I have an M122 and it doesn't feel as well made or as nice to type on as my Dell AT 102 W.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Tue, 10 November 2020, 07:01:29
I have an M122 and it doesn't feel as well made or as nice to type on as my Dell AT 102 W.
I think it depends on the generation, late M122 were cheapened quite a bit but Dell AT 102 stopped production before becoming cheaper, so both having some of the best switches around, to me it make sense. if it were compared to an apple butterfly then i would have called you mad :) i love my 122 but i can see that LOUD NOISES and heavy springs are not for everyone, and that it is not the best construction ever either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: markanini on Tue, 10 November 2020, 08:10:43
you'd be surprised how many of the biggest vintage enthusiasts are in their teens/early twenties

Possibly a majority. Because after 30 people generally let go of shallow idealism and give in to more primal desires. And this mirrors the split audience between garish designs and vintage replicas.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Tue, 10 November 2020, 08:53:51
In my case, it's to deal with my fat fingers

Off topic reply: Cool ring dude! I got one that is a similar style.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Merranza on Tue, 10 November 2020, 09:44:21
I can't for the life of me understand why heavy springs are so popular. But I'm on the extreme end. Even gateron clears at 35g actuation have plenty of resistance to them imo... I just don't get it.

I am on team extreme light linear too :) I even find my 35 gat clears heavy at times and would like something even lighter :)

2 other unpopular opinions:

- Sometimes I feel like most of the mechanical keyboard community tries to justify the hype of "new features" by trashing what was considered good or even excellent not so long ago. I'm absolutely not against development and novelties, I just hate the whole sheep thinking of following fads which is a very huge inherent characteristic of the community.

- (Probably related to my previous unpopular opinion) I don't get why the "only viable and decent cases nowadays" are high profile ones. I really prefer the look of floating keys... not for the RGB flashy gaming side of it but simply for the overall "breathing and light" feeling it gives. I don't like how thick, heavy and cumbersome many high profile keyboards look like. The whole "floating keys gets dirtier than high profile" is exactly related to my previous comment. Dust travels in air (upwards and downwards) and settles between keys. The high profile side of the case doesn't protect more against dust than a floating keys design (in fact, it just hides it better but it is still dirty). Add to this the dead skin of fingers that gets under... Dusting and cleaning a floating key design is just much easier (tilt to the side, use a gentle brush...). As for the "high profile protects switches better", we don't even have to get into that...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Thu, 12 November 2020, 02:18:58
i guess the case thing is a cycle, it seems that a while back all cases were low profile, both have their merits, high profile should protect the switches (not from dust but from lateral forces) while low profile should be cheaper, the aesthetic of both being subjective.

and for switches, coming from an M and not felling any pain after 8+ hours of typing i do like heavier switches, but currently typing on silent reds and although i bottom out (very) hard it is perfectly usable, i do not think that i could go lighter on the space-bar though as i partially depress it at all time resting my thumbs on it.

and the trashing of old features when new comes out is the base of consumerism, marketers do it to sell you the new feature and then you repeat it to feel good about your purchase of the new feature...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 12 November 2020, 02:23:02
rotary encoders on boards are a cool idea but mostly look bad
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Thu, 12 November 2020, 14:15:06
rotary encoders on boards are a cool idea but mostly look bad

I think pylon pulled it off pretty well on the Boston:
(https://i.imgur.com/HZKJ3BK.jpeg)

Of course, having the extra row of buttons helps :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: markanini on Fri, 13 November 2020, 19:40:12
- (Probably related to my previous unpopular opinion) I don't get why the "only viable and decent cases nowadays" are high profile ones. I really prefer the look of floating keys... not for the RGB flashy gaming side of it but simply for the overall "breathing and light" feeling it gives. I don't like how thick, heavy and cumbersome many high profile keyboards look like. The whole "floating keys gets dirtier than high profile" is exactly related to my previous comment. Dust travels in air (upwards and downwards) and settles between keys. The high profile side of the case doesn't protect more against dust than a floating keys design (in fact, it just hides it better but it is still dirty). Add to this the dead skin of fingers that gets under... Dusting and cleaning a floating key design is just much easier (tilt to the side, use a gentle brush...). As for the "high profile protects switches better", we don't even have to get into that...
High profile has a better sound, and resting your fingers in the area above the arrow keys won't have a severe drop.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: elderbong on Mon, 16 November 2020, 12:43:31
Heavy modern metal cases of anodized aluminium, extremely polished steel or brass etc. for keyboards are the equivalent of driving a gold plated Lamborghini on city streets - bordering on pointless vanity. Not only is metal as a case material completely unnecessary (I've never seen even a 10$ rubber dome with a plastic case significantly wear under normal use) it adds nothing particularly tangible to the durability of the keyboard itself since the case just hides the same, more or less cheap PCB's inside that every mech keeb has. At least an expensive sports car gets you a sports engine. Metal cases serve nothing more than for conspicuous consumption and to create artificial luxury tiers in the hobby.

Old metal keyboards get a free pass on this because it was thought at the time that computers would last and not become obsolete so quickly. There was also a clear marriage between form and function, even if they were overbuilt - something modern keebs lack.

It doesn't mean I dislike metal cases or that all of them (or even most) are tacky.

I'm inclined to agree with this opinion, with the one caveat that a metal chassis for larger boards may be better overall for rigidity and just feeling more solid overall.  But for anything like a 60% I feel like it almost defeats the purpose, at least if you intend to take the board anywhere other than right in front of your monitor.  I've been perfectly satisfied with the plastic cases I have.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alas26 on Sat, 21 November 2020, 21:59:00
- (Probably related to my previous unpopular opinion) I don't get why the "only viable and decent cases nowadays" are high profile ones. I really prefer the look of floating keys... not for the RGB flashy gaming side of it but simply for the overall "breathing and light" feeling it gives. I don't like how thick, heavy and cumbersome many high profile keyboards look like. The whole "floating keys gets dirtier than high profile" is exactly related to my previous comment. Dust travels in air (upwards and downwards) and settles between keys. The high profile side of the case doesn't protect more against dust than a floating keys design (in fact, it just hides it better but it is still dirty). Add to this the dead skin of fingers that gets under... Dusting and cleaning a floating key design is just much easier (tilt to the side, use a gentle brush...). As for the "high profile protects switches better", we don't even have to get into that...
High profile has a better sound, and resting your fingers in the area above the arrow keys won't have a severe drop.
Agreed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mikhail on Mon, 30 November 2020, 02:26:29
People should stop to produce 65% customs, and start make 60% with arrows and r.shift=question mark.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 01 December 2020, 08:39:57


I'm inclined to agree with this opinion, with the one caveat that a metal chassis for larger boards may be better overall for rigidity and just feeling more solid overall.  But for anything like a 60% I feel like it almost defeats the purpose, at least if you intend to take the board anywhere other than right in front of your monitor.  I've been perfectly satisfied with the plastic cases I have.

You'll be pleased to know that attractive, affordable 65-68% keyboards are becoming available with translucent plastics / polycarb-style case materials. The NK65 got it rolling, now we have the KBD67 Lite, and coming soon probably the IKKI68 Aurora.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Sun, 06 December 2020, 16:17:14


I'm inclined to agree with this opinion, with the one caveat that a metal chassis for larger boards may be better overall for rigidity and just feeling more solid overall.  But for anything like a 60% I feel like it almost defeats the purpose, at least if you intend to take the board anywhere other than right in front of your monitor.  I've been perfectly satisfied with the plastic cases I have.

You'll be pleased to know that attractive, affordable 65-68% keyboards are becoming available with translucent plastics / polycarb-style case materials. The NK65 got it rolling, now we have the KBD67 Lite, and coming soon probably the IKKI68 Aurora.

Most plastic cases seem to be in the "bottom of the barrel" levels of build quality. At that point you'd have to ask yourself why you don't just buy a prebuilt.

I think the whole custom scene is overpriced in general and isn't feasibly accessible by most mere mortals unless you really don't have other hobbies.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 06 December 2020, 19:29:41
Layers really suck.

I'm okay with layers up to the Shift key. With Control keys in software or OS, it's bearable for the added functionality. Anything beyond that, it's just a pain, and not worth the reduced keyboard real estate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 07 December 2020, 00:55:33
Layers really suck.

I'm okay with layers up to the Shift key. With Control keys in software or OS, it's bearable for the added functionality. Anything beyond that, it's just a pain, and not worth the reduced keyboard real estate.
who said layers are only for 60%, you can have them on a 122% or larger if you wish, and get plenty of keys to bind :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Learis on Tue, 08 December 2020, 00:58:48
Split-spacebars should be the default standard of keyboards. Let's just say split down the middle for simplicity sake. Maybe one side for regular space, and the other for backspace. If all your fingers can type a bunch of different keys, surely your two thumbs can be used for two different purposes. After months on a split-spacebar layout, this my new unpopular opinion :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Tue, 08 December 2020, 02:24:27
Split-spacebars should be the default standard of keyboards. Let's just say split down the middle for simplicity sake. Maybe one side for regular space, and the other for backspace. If all your fingers can type a bunch of different keys, surely your two thumbs can be used for two different purposes. After months on a split-spacebar layout, this my new unpopular opinion :)
My first hotswap was an ergodox and having backspace on a thumb made a whole world of difference.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 08 December 2020, 07:33:28

Split-spacebars should be the default standard of keyboards.


I would be happy to have this as a standard, but it is too hard for me to overcome muscle memory when switching keyboards. Just using my laptop occasionally drives me bonkers.

I had one of the old NMB Space Invaders boards and I could have gotten comfortable with it eventually although I have a lifetime habit of using both thumbs on the space bar, and I do use the right one more often.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Tue, 08 December 2020, 10:00:32
-Don't see any advantages of Alice layout over normal layout
-Gasket mount is overrated
-Long pole MX stem is something that should not exist

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Wed, 09 December 2020, 01:50:46
-Don't see any advantages of Alice layout over normal layout
to be honest i just find those keyboard interesting looking, and Alice is a pretty name, so 2 good reasons to have one :) although i do not see much point to them especially because they are inherently iso incompatible
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CamTheKid22 on Wed, 09 December 2020, 02:21:04
60% keyboards are for people who only care about their keyboard for gaming. The whole "gaming" trend has lead to so many products that are impractical (and often cheap), but look cool. Keyboards are a good example, but you can also look at desk chairs, where "Gaming Racing Chairs" have overtaken the market. I can appreciate the looks of that stuff, but you use keyboards for more than just WASD, shift, ctrl, and space, so why not have a keyboard that actually works for anything else. Hell, my friend just put together a Levinson rev 3, and sure it's sick, but he never uses it because it's only a 40%.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 09 December 2020, 05:31:33
60% keyboards are for people who only care about their keyboard for gaming. 

Really?  60% doesn't have dedicated function keys, and some games are awkward to play without them.   I switched from a programming-oriented 60% format to a 75%/84-key just so I could get dedicated function and print screen keys for games. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Wed, 09 December 2020, 05:52:56
60% keyboards are for people who only care about their keyboard for gaming. 

Really?  60% doesn't have dedicated function keys, and some games are awkward to play without them.   I switched from a programming-oriented 60% format to a 75%/84-key just so I could get dedicated function and print screen keys for games.
the only key i really miss going from 122 to 65 keys is print screen, mostly because i never know where it is on my 2nd layer, so i need to check in via... and as the laptop keyboard is not too far, i often use that instead, i never thought that going to 60% would be that easy. although i never game on it as it was built for the ground up to be a silent work keyboard, so i can't talk for gamers, at home i game on the laptop keyboard or an M when i can be asked to plug it in, and when the game needs a kb (i am not a gamer i only play tower defense once or twice a week and once in a blue moon i will cut the folding on my gaming pc to play a game but with covid and one of the pc dying it has become much rarer)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 09 December 2020, 23:04:18
60% keyboards are for people who only care about their keyboard for gaming. The whole "gaming" trend has lead to so many products that are impractical (and often cheap), but look cool. Keyboards are a good example, but you can also look at desk chairs, where "Gaming Racing Chairs" have overtaken the market. I can appreciate the looks of that stuff, but you use keyboards for more than just WASD, shift, ctrl, and space, so why not have a keyboard that actually works for anything else. Hell, my friend just put together a Levinson rev 3, and sure it's sick, but he never uses it because it's only a 40%.

I love the look of 1800s so that's mostly what I use, but I literally only use F4, arrow keys, and home/end/delete, all of which can be easily mapped to a second layer. I also wouldn't say the proliferation of 60% had much to do with gaming or else I'm sure you'd see a lot more "gaming" 60% boards rather than just a ton of TKLs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Thu, 10 December 2020, 01:25:34
Maybe the reason for so many 60% boards is that at $1+ per switch, it's easier to fill a smaller board with the next hot Panda
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tucvbif on Fri, 11 December 2020, 10:15:13
Why nobody puts something on the sides of keyboard? Espetially, rotary encoders? IMO, it looks and feels more suitable than on top side, along with keys.

Also why nobody places shift keys next to spacebar? Despite this, some people prefer longer spacebar, like 7x? IMO, 4.5u is the most optimal length for spacebar, and thumbs is more convienment for handling shift modifiers, than pinkies. But why nobody make keyboards this way for regular, not split, keyboards?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 11 December 2020, 15:40:25
Also why nobody places shift keys next to spacebar? Despite this, some people prefer longer spacebar, like 7x? IMO, 4.5u is the most optimal length for spacebar, and thumbs is more convienment for handling shift modifiers, than pinkies. But why nobody make keyboards this way for regular, not split, keyboards?

The format/layout of non-alphanumerics is an interesting topic.  Looking at my thumbs when I type a 3u spacebar would seem like an ideal size, and anything larger wouldn't work well with your proposed thumb-shift keys.  A larger central spacebar with shifts on either side would require awkwardly curling thumbs under the palm to do the shifts - particularly for T and Y.  On the other hand, you could just swap shift/spacebar and have a 3u shift key bottom center for your thumbs, and make the traditional pinkie shift keys into spacebars.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Sat, 12 December 2020, 15:52:12
Maybe the reason for so many 60% boards is that at $1+ per switch, it's easier to fill a smaller board with the next hot Panda
i do feel like gateron reds (silent) are plenty good enough felt scratchy far about a month and now only the least used keys feel scratchy, i do not really see the point of the really expensive mx compatible switches, when there are other better options that exists and are cheaper (like bs and alps for clicky, opto/hall for linear and well good rubber domes for tactile)
although i have not used other MX compatible switches as extensively as the gateron silent reds, as i hated browns and have not yet built a full keyboard with kailh bronze, i do not feel like spending more on switches for the same basic tech is the way to go.
and yeah i do not have that huge of a collection yet but i have tried more mx incompatible than compatible, so not completely mad here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sat, 12 December 2020, 19:05:23
In my view, switches are the most important part, and there's no point in building a board if it has mediocre or sub-mediocre switches.

So yeah, I can understand the 60% thing. If switches cost a dollar each, and then there's springs, labour, and lube...

I'm building some silent Bobas, and I'm glad it's for a 65% and not a 100%.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Atomical on Sat, 12 December 2020, 21:13:56
I concur gamer boards are the worst. I’ve had 2 in the past and you can hear the stabilizer rattle across the planet it’s so bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 12 December 2020, 21:53:46
In my view, switches are the most important part, and there's no point in building a board if it has mediocre or sub-mediocre switches.

So yeah, I can understand the 60% thing. If switches cost a dollar each, and then there's springs, labour, and lube...

I'm building some silent Bobas, and I'm glad it's for a 65% and not a 100%.

The effort of building a board is so high in terms of faffing about time, that the cost of 60 vs a hundred switches is pretty minor, imo. I can understand not wanting to pay, say, Zeal prices for a very minor difference in feel, but I would have thought that the driving factor to decide between keyboard sizes would be layout preference versus cost.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Sun, 13 December 2020, 23:02:31
I think that a huge number of those who're building their keyboards are young enough with enough time and make little enough money that their time is free.

For example, my garage door opener stripped a gear. I can fix it with a $5 part, but it will take me all day and stress me out. I can pay a guy $175 to do it and I sleep, so he's coming over next weekend.

Tell that to Funkmon circa 2011 and he'd be aghast at how much money Funkmon circa 2020 wasted, but I'm fine with it.

I remember that time; it wasn't even that long ago. I had a budget of $160 and I wanted X, so I had to essentially do it myself and it was kludged together ****. And, that's fine. I had a hard dollar limit and my time was flexible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 13 December 2020, 23:05:46
I think that a huge number of those who're building their keyboards are young enough with enough time and make little enough money that their time is free.

For example, my garage door opener stripped a gear. I can fix it with a $5 part, but it will take me all day and stress me out. I can pay a guy $175 to do it and I sleep, so he's coming over next weekend.

Tell that to Funkmon circa 2011 and he'd be aghast at how much money Funkmon circa 2020 wasted, but I'm fine with it.

I remember that time; it wasn't even that long ago. I had a budget of $160 and I wanted X, so I had to essentially do it myself and it was kludged together ****. And, that's fine. I had a hard dollar limit and my time was flexible.

....that's actually a totally valid point. I've forgotten what it's like to have unlimited free time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Mon, 14 December 2020, 06:40:03
Ah, to be young again ... having effectively infinite free time, learning like crazy, being insanely productive, packing 100 hours into a day, so many possibilities/options to chose from, and feeling rich despite earning only pennies.   

In contrast, being old is kinda like spending decades practicing for death. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 14 December 2020, 07:37:43
Ah, to be young again ... having effectively infinite free time, learning like crazy, being insanely productive, packing 100 hours into a day, so many possibilities/options to chose from, and feeling rich despite earning only pennies.   

In contrast, being old is kinda like spending decades practicing for death.


Nobody's time is actually free. It is only apparent. Somebody, somewhere, is paying for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Darthbaggins on Mon, 14 December 2020, 09:02:58
So I guess being a father and working a full time job, I should have no time to build a board?  Yet I still managed to pull it off and starting on modding another.  It's called time management.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Mon, 14 December 2020, 09:05:31
60% keyboards are for people who only care about their keyboard for gaming. 

Really?  60% doesn't have dedicated function keys, and some games are awkward to play without them.   I switched from a programming-oriented 60% format to a 75%/84-key just so I could get dedicated function and print screen keys for games.
the only key i really miss going from 122 to 65 keys is print screen, mostly because i never know where it is on my 2nd layer, so i need to check in via... and as the laptop keyboard is not too far, i often use that instead, i never thought that going to 60% would be that easy. although i never game on it as it was built for the ground up to be a silent work keyboard, so i can't talk for gamers, at home i game on the laptop keyboard or an M when i can be asked to plug it in, and when the game needs a kb (i am not a gamer i only play tower defense once or twice a week and once in a blue moon i will cut the folding on my gaming pc to play a game but with covid and one of the pc dying it has become much rarer)

I haven't used print screen since the snip tool came out. What do you use it for?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Darthbaggins on Mon, 14 December 2020, 09:06:25
60% keyboards are for people who only care about their keyboard for gaming. 

Really?  60% doesn't have dedicated function keys, and some games are awkward to play without them.   I switched from a programming-oriented 60% format to a 75%/84-key just so I could get dedicated function and print screen keys for games.
the only key i really miss going from 122 to 65 keys is print screen, mostly because i never know where it is on my 2nd layer, so i need to check in via... and as the laptop keyboard is not too far, i often use that instead, i never thought that going to 60% would be that easy. although i never game on it as it was built for the ground up to be a silent work keyboard, so i can't talk for gamers, at home i game on the laptop keyboard or an M when i can be asked to plug it in, and when the game needs a kb (i am not a gamer i only play tower defense once or twice a week and once in a blue moon i will cut the folding on my gaming pc to play a game but with covid and one of the pc dying it has become much rarer)

I haven't used print screen since the snip tool came out. What do you use it for?

Yeah I stopped all that madness and just loaded up Light Shot to capture what I need.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Protato_Tubby on Mon, 14 December 2020, 09:51:45
60% keyboards are for people who only care about their keyboard for gaming. 

Really?  60% doesn't have dedicated function keys, and some games are awkward to play without them.   I switched from a programming-oriented 60% format to a 75%/84-key just so I could get dedicated function and print screen keys for games.
the only key i really miss going from 122 to 65 keys is print screen, mostly because i never know where it is on my 2nd layer, so i need to check in via... and as the laptop keyboard is not too far, i often use that instead, i never thought that going to 60% would be that easy. although i never game on it as it was built for the ground up to be a silent work keyboard, so i can't talk for gamers, at home i game on the laptop keyboard or an M when i can be asked to plug it in, and when the game needs a kb (i am not a gamer i only play tower defense once or twice a week and once in a blue moon i will cut the folding on my gaming pc to play a game but with covid and one of the pc dying it has become much rarer)

I haven't used print screen since the snip tool came out. What do you use it for?
I use the print screen button to trigger greenshot - or rather printscrn in tandem with other keys depending on which of greenshot's functions I want to use
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Wed, 16 December 2020, 01:42:30
60% keyboards are for people who only care about their keyboard for gaming. 

Really?  60% doesn't have dedicated function keys, and some games are awkward to play without them.   I switched from a programming-oriented 60% format to a 75%/84-key just so I could get dedicated function and print screen keys for games.
the only key i really miss going from 122 to 65 keys is print screen, mostly because i never know where it is on my 2nd layer, so i need to check in via... and as the laptop keyboard is not too far, i often use that instead, i never thought that going to 60% would be that easy. although i never game on it as it was built for the ground up to be a silent work keyboard, so i can't talk for gamers, at home i game on the laptop keyboard or an M when i can be asked to plug it in, and when the game needs a kb (i am not a gamer i only play tower defense once or twice a week and once in a blue moon i will cut the folding on my gaming pc to play a game but with covid and one of the pc dying it has become much rarer)

I haven't used print screen since the snip tool came out. What do you use it for?

well print screen is one key and instant (well 2 now with the 65%) and so i find it faster than the windows tool, and, also, i only use windows at work, linux at home and the screenshot tools are quite often by default triggered by the, you guest it, print screen key. so that is why i still use it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: exime on Wed, 16 December 2020, 16:32:05
Much prefer brown over blue.  less tiring. no annoying click.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 16 December 2020, 17:08:52
We shouldn't have to pay for smartphones,  They should PAY US to use them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Wed, 16 December 2020, 17:09:07
Ergonomics is the closest thing to fascism keyboarding has to offer.

We shouldn't have to pay for smartphones,  They should PAY US to use them.
But that defeats the whole point of apple products. Their only selling point is that they're massively overpriced. They've nothing else going for them, after all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 16 December 2020, 17:09:57
Ergonomics is the closest thing to fascism keyboarding has to offer.

More Ergodox please.

(https://i.imgur.com/XiFOtf2.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Wed, 16 December 2020, 17:11:25
Ergonomics is the closest thing to fascism keyboarding has to offer.

More Ergodox please.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/XiFOtf2.gif)

This week I'm reviewing an "ergonomic" keyboard that is a nice example of everything that's wrong with ergonomics. The comments will be a nice example of everything that's wrong with the people that use ergonomic products :p .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 16 December 2020, 17:15:16
This week I'm reviewing an "ergonomic" keyboard that is a nice example of everything that's wrong with ergonomics. The comments will be a nice example of everything that's wrong with the people that use ergonomic products :p .

You are wrong.  ERGODOX4Lyfe
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 16 December 2020, 17:16:09
This week I'm reviewing an "ergonomic" keyboard that is a nice example of everything that's wrong with ergonomics. The comments will be a nice example of everything that's wrong with the people that use ergonomic products :p .

I bet it's HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIDEOUS!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 16 December 2020, 17:25:49
This week I'm reviewing an "ergonomic" keyboard that is a nice example of everything that's wrong with ergonomics. The comments will be a nice example of everything that's wrong with the people that use ergonomic products :p .

I bet it's HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIDEOUS!


LIESSSSssss..    ERgonomic keebs are most beautiful.

Flat boards = plebugly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheater on Wed, 16 December 2020, 17:46:36
No idea if that's so unpopular, but I find the Model M just mushy, and not very satisfying to type on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 16 December 2020, 18:31:31
No idea if that's so unpopular, but I find the Model M just mushy, and not very satisfying to type on.

How fast is your attack, if you go slow alot of keys are mushy / grindy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: cheater on Wed, 16 December 2020, 18:46:07
No idea if that's so unpopular, but I find the Model M just mushy, and not very satisfying to type on.

How fast is your attack, if you go slow alot of keys are mushy / grindy.


No idea how to describe this in a quantifiable way..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 16 December 2020, 19:07:20

How fast is your attack


No idea how to describe this in a quantifiable way..


I learned to type on a manual mechanical typewriter in the mid-late-1960s. There was a complex but logical technique wherein you raised the forearm, then plunged the hand and forearm downward. As you began the stroke itself you flexed the hand downwards and snapped at the wrist to "spear" the key with the fingertip in order to generate enough force to activate it. Our prehistoric forebears fabricated the atlatl to facilitate a similar motion in their hunting.

When we advanced to the second semester, we were allowed to type on the magnificent ultra-modern "IBM Selectric" typewriter which required much less force, but the teacher still watched to ensure that we were using the "proper" technique.


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 16 December 2020, 20:28:21

How fast is your attack


No idea how to describe this in a quantifiable way..


I learned to type on a manual mechanical typewriter in the mid-late-1960s. There was a complex but logical technique wherein you raised the forearm, then plunged the hand and forearm downward. As you began the stroke itself you flexed the hand downwards and snapped at the wrist to "spear" the key with the fingertip in order to generate enough force to activate it. Our prehistoric forebears fabricated the atlatl to facilitate a similar motion in their hunting.

When we advanced to the second semester, we were allowed to type on the magnificent ultra-modern "IBM Selectric" typewriter which required much less force, but the teacher still watched to ensure that we were using the "proper" technique.




This comment belong to a technological history museum.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 16 December 2020, 22:42:43
No idea if that's so unpopular, but I find the Model M just mushy, and not very satisfying to type on.

How fast is your attack, if you go slow alot of keys are mushy / grindy.


No idea how to describe this in a quantifiable way..

Then hit it faster, until it doesn't feel mushy anymore.


(https://i.imgur.com/HmeSYmM.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 17 December 2020, 00:35:48
When we advanced to the second semester, we were allowed to type on the magnificent ultra-modern "IBM Selectric" typewriter which required much less force, but the teacher still watched to ensure that we were using the "proper" technique.

  In high school 30 of us hammered away on Selectrics in a school room for 45 minutes a day in "keyboarding" class, through two quarters of "Keyboarding 1" and "Keyboarding 2".  (the only D grade I ever got in school)  When people complain about "noisy" keyboards today I get a little smirk on my face. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Thu, 17 December 2020, 00:50:17
No idea if that's so unpopular, but I find the Model M just mushy, and not very satisfying to type on.
and what version of the M you got? there exists a rubber dome version of the M, and that would most definitely be mushy. other than that, yeah the M is not for everyone, it is rather heavy weighted and the case is not always the best quality.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 23 December 2020, 21:48:59
Maybe this isn't terribly unpopular, but I have been thinking this for a while now:

Macropads are for when you've basically bought a keyboard that doesn't have enough keys in the first place.

Been seeing ICs/GBs for weird little macropads, where you basically end up with another corded item that clutters your desk space much less efficiently than a slightly larger keyboard.  I figure this is when keyboards move past the practical and into the realm of decorative items.

I get it with separate numberpads- you can place them on the left or out of the way of the mouse, I only miss one when entering lots of IP addresses or Excel work (and recently went back to a dedicated numberpad anyway). But those weird little 4 or 6 button CNC'd macropads- beyond desktop jewellery, just why? Use layers, use a board that's over 60%, get a board with those extra function keys down the left hand side or something.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Thu, 24 December 2020, 05:07:25
talk to Taran from LTT :)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH1gH0v9E3ruYrNyRbHhDe6XDfw4sZdZr
he got multiples 100% keyboards worth of macros :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 25 December 2020, 13:56:01
No idea if that's so unpopular, but I find the Model M just mushy, and not very satisfying to type on.

I'd say maybe unpopular amongst the general populous, but amongst more discerning vintage people yeah the Model F is definitely miles better than the M
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 25 December 2020, 14:59:46
Maybe this isn't terribly unpopular, but I have been thinking this for a while now:

Macropads are for when you've basically bought a keyboard that doesn't have enough keys in the first place.

Been seeing ICs/GBs for weird little macropads, where you basically end up with another corded item that clutters your desk space much less efficiently than a slightly larger keyboard.  I figure this is when keyboards move past the practical and into the realm of decorative items.

I get it with separate numberpads- you can place them on the left or out of the way of the mouse, I only miss one when entering lots of IP addresses or Excel work (and recently went back to a dedicated numberpad anyway). But those weird little 4 or 6 button CNC'd macropads- beyond desktop jewellery, just why? Use layers, use a board that's over 60%, get a board with those extra function keys down the left hand side or something.


Other MK's items and features are purely aesthetic that is good for those that like them. What is hard to understand is the need for some people to justify them based on functional arguments. That does not make sense.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 25 December 2020, 15:06:19
Maybe this isn't terribly unpopular, but I have been thinking this for a while now:

Macropads are for when you've basically bought a keyboard that doesn't have enough keys in the first place.

Been seeing ICs/GBs for weird little macropads, where you basically end up with another corded item that clutters your desk space much less efficiently than a slightly larger keyboard.  I figure this is when keyboards move past the practical and into the realm of decorative items.

I get it with separate numberpads- you can place them on the left or out of the way of the mouse, I only miss one when entering lots of IP addresses or Excel work (and recently went back to a dedicated numberpad anyway). But those weird little 4 or 6 button CNC'd macropads- beyond desktop jewellery, just why? Use layers, use a board that's over 60%, get a board with those extra function keys down the left hand side or something.

I understand what you're saying, but firstly, as ideus already said, people can enjoy things for purely aesthetic purposes and not everyone is a strict utilitarian. But from a functional perspective, small boards and macro pad combos offer a level of modularity that allows you to better customize the footprint on your desk. And say someone needs the partial functionality of a numpad but doesn't need the whole thing, why would it not make more sense for them to have a smaller keypad?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kapowaz on Fri, 25 December 2020, 18:08:14
The heatshrink on the connectors of custom USB-C cables look ugly as hell, and make a cable that costs multiple times more than even the most fancy regular cables look way, way worse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 25 December 2020, 21:52:13
Maybe this isn't terribly unpopular, but I have been thinking this for a while now:

Macropads are for when you've basically bought a keyboard that doesn't have enough keys in the first place.

Been seeing ICs/GBs for weird little macropads, where you basically end up with another corded item that clutters your desk space much less efficiently than a slightly larger keyboard.  I figure this is when keyboards move past the practical and into the realm of decorative items.

I get it with separate numberpads- you can place them on the left or out of the way of the mouse, I only miss one when entering lots of IP addresses or Excel work (and recently went back to a dedicated numberpad anyway). But those weird little 4 or 6 button CNC'd macropads- beyond desktop jewellery, just why? Use layers, use a board that's over 60%, get a board with those extra function keys down the left hand side or something.

I understand what you're saying, but firstly, as ideus already said, people can enjoy things for purely aesthetic purposes and not everyone is a strict utilitarian. But from a functional perspective, small boards and macro pad combos offer a level of modularity that allows you to better customize the footprint on your desk. And say someone needs the partial functionality of a numpad but doesn't need the whole thing, why would it not make more sense for them to have a smaller keypad?

Oh, I understand and totally recognise that aesthetics are a valid reason for keyboard choices (says the guy who is currently typing on a board with DCS keycaps, some of which came as blanks and have the symbols drawn on them with permanent marker).

Still, I have bought things with aesthetics in mind. Most keycap sets are really down to aesthetics, for starters.

What I find odd though is that people will go to some lengths to avoid admitting that it's a pure aesthetic choice, and pull out imaginary functional reasons instead- more efficient use of desk space, or portability. If someone uses a macropad, this space saving disappears (it's way less efficient than a larger board, then you've got extra cable clutter), and having asked about it before it seems that almost nobody really uses their keyboard in a portable fashion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 25 December 2020, 23:35:08
What I find odd though is that people will go to some lengths to avoid admitting that it's a pure aesthetic choice, and pull out imaginary functional reasons instead- more efficient use of desk space, or portability. If someone uses a macropad, this space saving disappears (it's way less efficient than a larger board, then you've got extra cable clutter), and having asked about it before it seems that almost nobody really uses their keyboard in a portable fashion.

I mean a macropad frees you up to decide where that extra space goes, which is especially useful if you'd rather have those extra keys all to the left of your board for more mousepad space, whereas a larger keyboard is fixed. I also don't really understand your point about losing the space-saving functionality; a 60% + a keypad is still going to be smaller than or about the same size as a fullsize or an 1800.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Sat, 26 December 2020, 01:40:52
Maybe this isn't terribly unpopular, but I have been thinking this for a while now:

Macropads are for when you've basically bought a keyboard that doesn't have enough keys in the first place.

Or maybe you love your regular keyboard for 97% of what you do and don't want to toss it out on account of some usage situation that only comes up about 3% of the time? 

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 26 December 2020, 02:51:49
What I find odd though is that people will go to some lengths to avoid admitting that it's a pure aesthetic choice, and pull out imaginary functional reasons instead- more efficient use of desk space, or portability. If someone uses a macropad, this space saving disappears (it's way less efficient than a larger board, then you've got extra cable clutter), and having asked about it before it seems that almost nobody really uses their keyboard in a portable fashion.

I mean a macropad frees you up to decide where that extra space goes, which is especially useful if you'd rather have those extra keys all to the left of your board for more mousepad space, whereas a larger keyboard is fixed. I also don't really understand your point about losing the space-saving functionality; a 60% + a keypad is still going to be smaller than or about the same size as a fullsize or an 1800.

Yes, which is why I made that comment about keyboards with the strip of macro keys down the left. Never really been into them myself, but I do think they are a great idea for anyone who needs macro/additional keys.

This discussion does make me wonder how common macropads are. They do seem a bit of a niche within a niche, just going on the proportion of ICs/GBs on here.

I did get a free macropad with my current keyboard... it was a comedy 1-key pad, which I am guessing was intended as more of a curio than a serious product.

Personally, when I used a separate number pad for while, I found that it really didn't work for me. Turns out that muscle memory was impossible to hardcode with a free floating pad, they numberpad really needs be in a totally fixed position for me to use without glancing down. I've managed to achieve this with my current board with the numberpad kind of embedded in the midst of the alphas, but the only thing the discrete floating number pad taught me was how poor MX Browns were (it was the only MX Brown board I've owned).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 26 December 2020, 06:59:33
What I find odd though is that people will go to some lengths to avoid admitting that it's a pure aesthetic choice, and pull out imaginary functional reasons instead- more efficient use of desk space, or portability. If someone uses a macropad, this space saving disappears (it's way less efficient than a larger board, then you've got extra cable clutter), and having asked about it before it seems that almost nobody really uses their keyboard in a portable fashion.

I mean a macropad frees you up to decide where that extra space goes, which is especially useful if you'd rather have those extra keys all to the left of your board for more mousepad space, whereas a larger keyboard is fixed. I also don't really understand your point about losing the space-saving functionality; a 60% + a keypad is still going to be smaller than or about the same size as a fullsize or an 1800.

Yes, which is why I made that comment about keyboards with the strip of macro keys down the left. Never really been into them myself, but I do think they are a great idea for anyone who needs macro/additional keys.

Still ignoring the modularity and ability to adjust the configuration however you please rather than be constrained to a fixed layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 26 December 2020, 07:53:37
What I find odd though is that people will go to some lengths to avoid admitting that it's a pure aesthetic choice, and pull out imaginary functional reasons instead- more efficient use of desk space, or portability. If someone uses a macropad, this space saving disappears (it's way less efficient than a larger board, then you've got extra cable clutter), and having asked about it before it seems that almost nobody really uses their keyboard in a portable fashion.

I mean a macropad frees you up to decide where that extra space goes, which is especially useful if you'd rather have those extra keys all to the left of your board for more mousepad space, whereas a larger keyboard is fixed. I also don't really understand your point about losing the space-saving functionality; a 60% + a keypad is still going to be smaller than or about the same size as a fullsize or an 1800.

Yes, which is why I made that comment about keyboards with the strip of macro keys down the left. Never really been into them myself, but I do think they are a great idea for anyone who needs macro/additional keys.

Still ignoring the modularity and ability to adjust the configuration however you please rather than be constrained to a fixed layout.
 

Okay then, so I have described my actual use case in terms of external macropads which then migrated back into my daily keyboard.

Do you use a macropad on a daily basis, or are we talking hand wavy hypotheticals here? 'Cause to me the 'tiny keyboard + macropad is smaller than a 104 board' sounds like a straw man argument, I certainly never suggested that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 26 December 2020, 08:54:52
What I find odd though is that people will go to some lengths to avoid admitting that it's a pure aesthetic choice, and pull out imaginary functional reasons instead- more efficient use of desk space, or portability. If someone uses a macropad, this space saving disappears (it's way less efficient than a larger board, then you've got extra cable clutter), and having asked about it before it seems that almost nobody really uses their keyboard in a portable fashion.

I mean a macropad frees you up to decide where that extra space goes, which is especially useful if you'd rather have those extra keys all to the left of your board for more mousepad space, whereas a larger keyboard is fixed. I also don't really understand your point about losing the space-saving functionality; a 60% + a keypad is still going to be smaller than or about the same size as a fullsize or an 1800.

Yes, which is why I made that comment about keyboards with the strip of macro keys down the left. Never really been into them myself, but I do think they are a great idea for anyone who needs macro/additional keys.

Still ignoring the modularity and ability to adjust the configuration however you please rather than be constrained to a fixed layout.
 

Okay then, so I have described my actual use case in terms of external macropads which then migrated back into my daily keyboard.

Do you use a macropad on a daily basis, or are we talking hand wavy hypotheticals here? 'Cause to me the 'tiny keyboard + macropad is smaller than a 104 board' sounds like a straw man argument, I certainly never suggested that.

I've used plenty of macropads and keypads + modular keyboards over the years, yes. How is anything we're talking about "hand-wavy hypotheticals"? People, including myself, are literally utilizing modular setups with accessory boards right now to accomplish exactly what I have described, you just can't seem to comprehend that other users have different needs and goals from yourself. Even if I didn't use them personally, that doesn't limit my ability to understand the concept.

it's way less efficient than a larger board

ugh what a horrible straw man I have conjured up out of nowhere (or maybe it's just an example that illustrates a broader point of why people are interested in macropads)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Mon, 28 December 2020, 12:03:03
All the same people who used to buy $200 Corsairs, laugh at people with $20 rubber dome keyboards, and parrot everything Linus Techtip Sebastian said are now buying $500 "eNdGaMe" keyboards, laughing at people with gamer/KBDfans stuff, and parroting everything Taeha says. It's more about stunting than chasing new experiences or making something that looks and feels nice for a lot of people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yrneh on Mon, 28 December 2020, 21:19:49
All the same people who used to buy $200 Corsairs, laugh at people with $20 rubber dome keyboards, and parrot everything Linus Techtip Sebastian said are now buying $500 "eNdGaMe" keyboards, laughing at people with gamer/KBDfans stuff, and parroting everything Taeha says. It's more about stunting than chasing new experiences or making something that looks and feels nice for a lot of people.
The same people that do this are the same people that like to flex their money with "hype" clothing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 28 December 2020, 21:20:16
All the same people who used to buy $200 Corsairs, laugh at people with $20 rubber dome keyboards, and parrot everything Linus Techtip Sebastian said are now buying $500 "eNdGaMe" keyboards, laughing at people with gamer/KBDfans stuff, and parroting everything Taeha says. It's more about stunting than chasing new experiences or making something that looks and feels nice for a lot of people.

reddit in a nutshell
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 28 December 2020, 23:47:22
I've used plenty of macropads and keypads + modular keyboards over the years, yes. How is anything we're talking about "hand-wavy hypotheticals"? People, including myself, are literally utilizing modular setups with accessory boards right now to accomplish exactly what I have described, you just can't seem to comprehend that other users have different needs and goals from yourself. Even if I didn't use them personally, that doesn't limit my ability to understand the concept.

it's way less efficient than a larger board

ugh what a horrible straw man I have conjured up out of nowhere (or maybe it's just an example that illustrates a broader point of why people are interested in macropads)

Well, then I am glad that I have so posted an opinion that is suitable for the thread topic, and have clearly touched a nerve.

I still think that for the most part, macropads as popularised in the ICs and GBs here are silly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 28 December 2020, 23:55:10
I've used plenty of macropads and keypads + modular keyboards over the years, yes. How is anything we're talking about "hand-wavy hypotheticals"? People, including myself, are literally utilizing modular setups with accessory boards right now to accomplish exactly what I have described, you just can't seem to comprehend that other users have different needs and goals from yourself. Even if I didn't use them personally, that doesn't limit my ability to understand the concept.

it's way less efficient than a larger board

ugh what a horrible straw man I have conjured up out of nowhere (or maybe it's just an example that illustrates a broader point of why people are interested in macropads)

Well, then I am glad that I have so posted an opinion that is suitable for the thread topic, and have clearly touched a nerve.

I still think that for the most part, macropads as popularised in the ICs and GBs here are silly.

haha I was gonna say your post was definitely right for this thread
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Tue, 29 December 2020, 03:20:26
One thing I’ll say about larger boards is that most people definitely aren’t very creative about building them. It’s not so hard to use the 3 extra keys on a TKL as a mini macropad, or convert a numpad into a
Macros, or better yet, use different types of switches between alphas/modifiers/function keys/numpad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 29 December 2020, 22:43:01

As a noob in these parts I am puzzled by the "aviator" cable with the honking big clunky connector in the middle and the tight coil. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 29 December 2020, 22:49:22

As a noob in these parts, I am puzzled by the "aviator" cable with the honking big clunky connector in the middle and the tight coil.


It is just another example of feature items that are just for show. Aviator cables and artisan caps are some of the most conspicuous examples of these trends.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yqqdrasil on Tue, 29 December 2020, 23:47:13

As a noob in these parts, I am puzzled by the "aviator" cable with the honking big clunky connector in the middle and the tight coil.


It is just another example of feature items that are just for show. Aviator cables and artisan caps are some of the most conspicuous examples of these trends.

One could argue that they offer a convenient way of switching between USB types for different devices. I've built two aviator cables for myself for fun, they're cool... Bulky, but I have a lot of free real estate on my desk.

Lemo on the other hand looks sick, but the prices of them are outlandish.

I love coiled cables. Reminds me of rotary landlines we had growing up  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Atomical on Wed, 30 December 2020, 12:23:47
All the same people who used to buy $200 Corsairs, laugh at people with $20 rubber dome keyboards, and parrot everything Linus Techtip Sebastian said are now buying $500 "eNdGaMe" keyboards, laughing at people with gamer/KBDfans stuff, and parroting everything Taeha says. It's more about stunting than chasing new experiences or making something that looks and feels nice for a lot of people.
Never heard something more true about the keyboard community. I also feel like the influx of these “premium” $500-$700 boards are mostly cashgrabs from Chinese companies looking to get a quick buck from gullible Americans and Europeans. Like most of the time some of these boards aren’t really special or unique. Maybe I’m wrong though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CosminOance on Wed, 30 December 2020, 13:06:16
It's hard for me to believe that the most technologically advanced (and most powerful overall) country in Europe, the country that develops high tech sports cars, industrial engines, advances in surgery tech, vaccines, has some of the largest global banking giants... can't figure out a way to copy 30yo plastic injection machines.... ;D

or maybe... :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: quadibloc on Wed, 30 December 2020, 19:32:39
I've used the Fujitsu keyboard, which is generally considered to be an awful keyboard because it has a 'backwards' tactile response, and I didn't think it was so bad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Wed, 30 December 2020, 21:17:52

As a noob in these parts, I am puzzled by the "aviator" cable with the honking big clunky connector in the middle and the tight coil.


It is just another example of feature items that are just for show. Aviator cables and artisan caps are some of the most conspicuous examples of these trends.

One could argue that they offer a convenient way of switching between USB types for different devices. I've built two aviator cables for myself for fun, they're cool... Bulky, but I have a lot of free real estate on my desk.

Lemo on the other hand looks sick, but the prices of them are outlandish.

I love coiled cables. Reminds me of rotary landlines we had growing up  :D


I like coiled cables also, but there are cheap ones available, or you can DIY some for a very low cost. The interchangeable USB connectors may be useful if you are switching devices frequently, and having just one cable for everything is required.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 31 December 2020, 05:17:38

Us plebs just use regular old compact adapters, easy peasy

Speaking of which I started using one of those magnetic usb-c connectors on my new keyboards (and my phone) because my desk is crowded and I'm worried about torqueing the fragile usb-c connector that hangs off the back.  My girlfriend's Akko has a nice slotted connector design that slots the entire connector securely into the case, but all of mine just let it hang way out the back where it can break.  The magnetic connector seems to work fine so far, but we shall see if the contacts work well long term.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 31 December 2020, 07:43:45

The magnetic connector seems to work fine so far,


I have used these for 3 years and they are fabulous. I have a mixture of micro-USB and USB-C devices and so bought a variety of heads so that the same cables can stay plugged in and be used for whatever. I don't ever want to go back.


I like coiled cables also,

you can DIY some


Personally, I despise coiled cables but this seems to be the way to go:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82202.msg2869116#msg2869116 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82202.msg2869116#msg2869116)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yicaoyimu on Fri, 01 January 2021, 01:55:47
All the same people who used to buy $200 Corsairs, laugh at people with $20 rubber dome keyboards, and parrot everything Linus Techtip Sebastian said are now buying $500 "eNdGaMe" keyboards, laughing at people with gamer/KBDfans stuff, and parroting everything Taeha says. It's more about stunting than chasing new experiences or making something that looks and feels nice for a lot of people.
Never heard something more true about the keyboard community. I also feel like the influx of these “premium” $500-$700 boards are mostly cashgrabs from Chinese companies looking to get a quick buck from gullible Americans and Europeans. Like most of the time some of these boards aren’t really special or unique. Maybe I’m wrong though.

Can you name a premium $500 to $700 board designed by Chinese maker? IRON185 and ANDROMEDA come to mind but neither are Chinese. Matrix is the most premium board from Chinese maker and even their boards never go for more than $500 at GB price. Cashgrabs are definitely not unique to Chinese maker. I think you might confuse made in China premium board with board designed by Chinese maker, as most custom keyboards are made in China but they are not necessarily designed by Chinese maker.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Learis on Sat, 09 January 2021, 12:10:13
Overlube. Don't listen to what all the pro keeb teachers tell you. Overlube (don't be afraid to use a generous amount). I've spent this whole time following their advice and being very gentle with the lube. Then my switches come out sounding scratchy. So then I say to myself, screw it, and brush a generous amount of lube on them. Lo and behold they're less scratchy, and they haven't become any more sluggish. I think ppl stress too much this "less is more" concept in lubing. Ultimately you'll have to experiment for yourself as this is my opinion, and maybe what I consider to be a lot others might consider just normal. Ofcourse use proper technique with applying an even coating with a brush, but I say don't be afraid to provide a generous healthy coating!

Edit: To actually give an objective observation, what I did was apply literally a double coating of what I normally apply to the stems of my switches. I then compared my single coated switches to my double coated switches. To be honest, many of them still felt the same in terms of scratchiness with the single and double, however there were some stragglers with the single coat that were definitely more scratchy, and overall the double coat feel slightly less scratchy. So it's a safer bet in my opinion to be more aggressive in lubing. There was no sluggishness in the double coated ones compared to the single coated. And I was using very light springs (the gateron clears at only 35g)!

Unfortunately I'm currently doing this experiment with silenced switches, so I can't make strong sound difference observations. They sound the same for silenced is all I can say.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Sat, 09 January 2021, 16:35:08
Overlube. Don't listen to what all the pro keeb teachers tell you. Overlube (don't be afraid to use a generous amount). I've spent this whole time following their advice and being very gentle with the lube. Then my switches come out sounding scratchy. So then I say to myself, screw it, and brush a generous amount of lube on them. Lo and behold they're less scratchy, and they haven't become any more sluggish. I think ppl stress too much this "less is more" concept in lubing. Ultimately you'll have to experiment for yourself as this is my opinion, and maybe what I consider to be a lot others might consider just normal. Ofcourse use proper technique with applying an even coating with a brush, but I say don't be afraid to provide a generous healthy coating!

Edit: To actually give an objective observation, what I did was apply literally a double coating of what I normally apply to the stems of my switches. I then compared my single coated switches to my double coated switches. To be honest, many of them still felt the same in terms of scratchiness with the single and double, however there were some stragglers with the single coat that were definitely more scratchy, and overall the double coat feel slightly less scratchy. So it's a safer bet in my opinion to be more aggressive in lubing. There was no sluggishness in the double coated ones compared to the single coated. And I was using very light springs (the gateron clears at only 35g)!

Unfortunately I'm currently doing this experiment with silenced switches, so I can't make strong sound difference observations. They sound the same for silenced is all I can say.
In my experience, you can overlube most parts of the stem, just not the foot of the stem. With heavier lubes it makes the return and bottoming out feel mushy. Overdoing the sides or the top housing can affect the sound and feel in a good or bad way, too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Sat, 09 January 2021, 20:21:18
Overlube. Don't listen to what all the pro keeb teachers tell you. Overlube (don't be afraid to use a generous amount). I've spent this whole time following their advice and being very gentle with the lube. Then my switches come out sounding scratchy. So then I say to myself, screw it, and brush a generous amount of lube on them. Lo and behold they're less scratchy, and they haven't become any more sluggish. I think ppl stress too much this "less is more" concept in lubing. Ultimately you'll have to experiment for yourself as this is my opinion, and maybe what I consider to be a lot others might consider just normal. Ofcourse use proper technique with applying an even coating with a brush, but I say don't be afraid to provide a generous healthy coating!

Edit: To actually give an objective observation, what I did was apply literally a double coating of what I normally apply to the stems of my switches. I then compared my single coated switches to my double coated switches. To be honest, many of them still felt the same in terms of scratchiness with the single and double, however there were some stragglers with the single coat that were definitely more scratchy, and overall the double coat feel slightly less scratchy. So it's a safer bet in my opinion to be more aggressive in lubing. There was no sluggishness in the double coated ones compared to the single coated. And I was using very light springs (the gateron clears at only 35g)!

Unfortunately I'm currently doing this experiment with silenced switches, so I can't make strong sound difference observations. They sound the same for silenced is all I can say.

Contrary opinion: don't lube at all. Lubing is dumb. If you need to lube, you've picked a dumb switch.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Sun, 10 January 2021, 05:52:29
filco is overpriced and has terrible typing experience
realforce is ugly
topre is overrated

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 11 January 2021, 01:33:13

Contrary opinion: don't lube at all. Lubing is dumb. If you need to lube, you've picked a dumb switch.
i do agree there, switches should smooth out with time, if you need lube your switch is rather poor, my gat silent reds started off a bit scratchy but after about 2 months of rather heavy use only the keys i use the very least still feel a bit scratchy.
out of that experience i feel like lubing is rather a waste of time, but then in those times peoples do have time to waste.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: moonexe on Mon, 11 January 2021, 16:38:10
In wait of the JIS GB, I've been looking at Hiragana alpha kits as they would be partially interchangeable with the real thing. But Katanana is straight up useless and just serves to limit my options.
So I guess what I'm getting at is... Katakana kits are dumb.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Mon, 11 January 2021, 17:21:50
In wait of the JIS GB, I've been looking at Hiragana alpha kits as they would be partially interchangeable with the real thing. But Katanana is straight up useless and just serves to limit my options.
So I guess what I'm getting at is... Katakana kits are dumb.
Hiragana > Katakana, I'm guessing kata kits are more common because they're less busy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: avocadosec on Tue, 12 January 2021, 13:46:59
I don't feel bad if key caps get cloned/ripped off when they were sold as a one-time GB or the secondhand prices are higher than the original cost.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Tue, 12 January 2021, 15:46:31
I don't feel bad if key caps get cloned/ripped off when they were sold as a one-time GB or the secondhand prices are higher than the original cost.
Don’t really mind this either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yqqdrasil on Tue, 12 January 2021, 19:55:12
I don't feel bad if key caps get cloned/ripped off when they were sold as a one-time GB or the secondhand prices are higher than the original cost.
Don’t really mind this either.
Yea its not like they have patents on the colourways lol. As long as the keycap set well manufactured I couldn't care less if its a 'clone.'
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 12 January 2021, 21:55:04
filco is overpriced and has terrible typing experience
realforce is ugly
topre is overrated

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Is this really an unpopular opinion about Filco on forums where people build their own keyboards?

I agree that Filco leaves much to be desired. What is it that you think gives a terrible typing experience with Filco?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Tue, 12 January 2021, 22:12:03
filco is overpriced and has terrible typing experience
realforce is ugly
topre is overrated

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Is this really an unpopular opinion about Filco on forums where people build their own keyboards?

I agree that Filco leaves much to be desired. What is it that you think gives a terrible typing experience with Filco?
for me, the costa stabs and the low quality stock keycaps killed it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mrvco on Tue, 12 January 2021, 22:32:00
Overlube. Don't listen to what all the pro keeb teachers tell you. Overlube (don't be afraid to use a generous amount). I've spent this whole time following their advice and being very gentle with the lube. Then my switches come out sounding scratchy. So then I say to myself, screw it, and brush a generous amount of lube on them. Lo and behold they're less scratchy, and they haven't become any more sluggish. I think ppl stress too much this "less is more" concept in lubing. Ultimately you'll have to experiment for yourself as this is my opinion, and maybe what I consider to be a lot others might consider just normal. Ofcourse use proper technique with applying an even coating with a brush, but I say don't be afraid to provide a generous healthy coating!

Edit: To actually give an objective observation, what I did was apply literally a double coating of what I normally apply to the stems of my switches. I then compared my single coated switches to my double coated switches. To be honest, many of them still felt the same in terms of scratchiness with the single and double, however there were some stragglers with the single coat that were definitely more scratchy, and overall the double coat feel slightly less scratchy. So it's a safer bet in my opinion to be more aggressive in lubing. There was no sluggishness in the double coated ones compared to the single coated. And I was using very light springs (the gateron clears at only 35g)!

Unfortunately I'm currently doing this experiment with silenced switches, so I can't make strong sound difference observations. They sound the same for silenced is all I can say.
In my experience, you can overlube most parts of the stem, just not the foot of the stem. With heavier lubes it makes the return and bottoming out feel mushy. Overdoing the sides or the top housing can affect the sound and feel in a good or bad way, too.

Yep, I've definitely managed to over-lube Gat Yellows w/ 205g0 making them too slow and sluggish for touch typing at any decent WPM.  Fortunately swabbing them out with a cue-tip gets them back into shape.  I mostly stick with Tribosys 3203/4 now, much more forgiving.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 12 January 2021, 22:34:39
for me, the costa stabs and the low quality stock keycaps killed it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Yes, the Costar stabilizers are frustrating to use with keycaps that aren't the Filco stock OEM profile.

Considering that the entire keyboard is built around Cherry switches, and seeks to be a 'premium' typing experience, the lack of Cherry stabilizers is perplexing. It would make use of Cherry-profile and thick keycaps that much easier.

And yes, the stock keycaps are hollow and don't sound great, and the legends wear off. Doesn't leave a 'premium' feel.

And Costar stabilizers can rattle, and it is annoying. It was an especially noisy board at first, with ping everywhere, until the switches were worn-in.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Tue, 12 January 2021, 22:35:46
Overlube. Don't listen to what all the pro keeb teachers tell you. Overlube (don't be afraid to use a generous amount). I've spent this whole time following their advice and being very gentle with the lube. Then my switches come out sounding scratchy. So then I say to myself, screw it, and brush a generous amount of lube on them. Lo and behold they're less scratchy, and they haven't become any more sluggish. I think ppl stress too much this "less is more" concept in lubing. Ultimately you'll have to experiment for yourself as this is my opinion, and maybe what I consider to be a lot others might consider just normal. Ofcourse use proper technique with applying an even coating with a brush, but I say don't be afraid to provide a generous healthy coating!

Edit: To actually give an objective observation, what I did was apply literally a double coating of what I normally apply to the stems of my switches. I then compared my single coated switches to my double coated switches. To be honest, many of them still felt the same in terms of scratchiness with the single and double, however there were some stragglers with the single coat that were definitely more scratchy, and overall the double coat feel slightly less scratchy. So it's a safer bet in my opinion to be more aggressive in lubing. There was no sluggishness in the double coated ones compared to the single coated. And I was using very light springs (the gateron clears at only 35g)!

Unfortunately I'm currently doing this experiment with silenced switches, so I can't make strong sound difference observations. They sound the same for silenced is all I can say.
In my experience, you can overlube most parts of the stem, just not the foot of the stem. With heavier lubes it makes the return and bottoming out feel mushy. Overdoing the sides or the top housing can affect the sound and feel in a good or bad way, too.

Yep, I've definitely managed to over-lube Gat Yellows w/ 205g0 making them too slow and sluggish for touch typing at any decent WPM.  Fortunately swabbing them out with a cue-tip gets them back into shape.  I mostly stick with Tribosys 3203/4 now, much more forgiving.
I did overlubed my cherry black and then swap the spring for 80g actuation one, smoother and no sluggy at all (krytox205g0), but I dont think it's recommended for people those don't have a taste for heavier spring

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: shallot on Wed, 13 January 2021, 04:56:13
Costar stabilizers are actually really good. People spend ages tuning their cherry stabs, clipping, bandaid modding, what-have-you. Costar stabs all you need to do is lube where the insert goes into the plate, and lube where the keycap insert goes in, and then where the wire goes into the cap and they just sound and feel fantastic. Less faff for better feeling results.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Wed, 13 January 2021, 20:52:41
They're good when perfect. But easy to bend, especially when you're trying to use thick Cherry-profile keycaps in a keyboard [Filco] that wasn't set up for that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yqqdrasil on Wed, 13 January 2021, 21:57:11
Costar stabs are a nightmare. I'd rather use unlubed Cherry than Costar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 14 January 2021, 00:54:38
Overlube. Don't listen to what all the pro keeb teachers tell you. Overlube (don't be afraid to use a generous amount). I've spent this whole time following their advice and being very gentle with the lube. Then my switches come out sounding scratchy. So then I say to myself, screw it, and brush a generous amount of lube on them. Lo and behold they're less scratchy, and they haven't become any more sluggish. I think ppl stress too much this "less is more" concept in lubing. Ultimately you'll have to experiment for yourself as this is my opinion, and maybe what I consider to be a lot others might consider just normal. Ofcourse use proper technique with applying an even coating with a brush, but I say don't be afraid to provide a generous healthy coating!

Edit: To actually give an objective observation, what I did was apply literally a double coating of what I normally apply to the stems of my switches. I then compared my single coated switches to my double coated switches. To be honest, many of them still felt the same in terms of scratchiness with the single and double, however there were some stragglers with the single coat that were definitely more scratchy, and overall the double coat feel slightly less scratchy. So it's a safer bet in my opinion to be more aggressive in lubing. There was no sluggishness in the double coated ones compared to the single coated. And I was using very light springs (the gateron clears at only 35g)!

Unfortunately I'm currently doing this experiment with silenced switches, so I can't make strong sound difference observations. They sound the same for silenced is all I can say.

honestly I'd just assume that you were seriously under-lubing before, because you can absolutely can over-lube switches and make them sluggish
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whezil on Thu, 14 January 2021, 01:29:01
1. I hate spacebar. In particular the size of it. Anything greater than 2.25u is just a waste, I want to use my thumbs for more than occasionally tapping spacebar.
2. I think the feel of a keyboard is way more important than the sound of it(for home use), since I almost always have my headphones on, the only thing I notice is the feel of pressing a key down. So smoothness > sound when it comes to switches.
3. I do not like the function key row.
4. I love SA profile keycaps, it feels so natural as opposed to something like DSA which has no 'tactility'/feedback so my fingers feel blind typing on them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 14 January 2021, 01:56:08
Costar stabs are a nightmare. I'd rather use unlubed Cherry than Costar.

Pretty sure that is for some reason a popular opinion given cherry seems to be by far the most popular choice.

I don't see it myself, costar has the best keyfeel, I don't care about rattle.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 14 January 2021, 13:31:51
1. I hate spacebar. In particular the size of it. Anything greater than 2.25u is just a waste, I want to use my thumbs for more than occasionally tapping spacebar.


  I'm also puzzled by the massive spacebar.  3u would be a perfectly adequate spacebar size, IME.  However, I do need my function keys - I don't do layers. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ActualDinosaur on Thu, 14 January 2021, 15:57:16
I'm not sure it's wise to out myself like this on my very first post, but here we go:

- PBT caps are overrated and chalky, broken in ABS shine is pleasant to use
- Tactile and clicky switches are both closer in feel to rubber domes than linear
- Complicated Alps really don't offer anything special over simplified Alps, and are prone to issues with key chatter that nobody likes to talk about
- The clean, crisp bottom out is one of the major benefits of mechanical boards and orings completely, totally ruin it
- Topre is an okay switch, but a realforce really shouldn't sell for even a penny over $80
- A little bit of keycap wobble actually makes for a more forgiving typing experience
- Any keyboard smaller than a 60% is a cruel, claustrophobic joke to see how many less switches you'll still pay actual money for
- Packing a separate keyboard to use with your laptop is cringey and not worth the backpack space


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 14 January 2021, 17:43:41
- Packing a separate keyboard to use with your laptop is cringey and not worth the backpack space

  My computer bag has about 8 to 10 times the volume of my laptop and could easily hold all 3 of my quality keyboards in addition if I so desired.   

  However, my keyboards already each have their own protective carry bags anyway.   :thumb:

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Thu, 14 January 2021, 20:04:12
- Topre is an okay switch, but a realforce really shouldn't sell for even a penny over $80

The pricing is probably a side effect of being made in Japan, which contributes noticeably to the the product experience. Even the made in China EC boards are around the $100 mark.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Fri, 15 January 2021, 00:45:42
- Packing a separate keyboard to use with your laptop is cringey and not worth the backpack space


Yup. Despite being into keyboards, probably over half my typing is on a macbook pro keyboard. It's not even the backpack space argument, it's just a horrible user experience to use a separate keyboard with a laptop without external monitors.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Fri, 15 January 2021, 01:02:21
- Packing a separate keyboard to use with your laptop is cringey and not worth the backpack space
depends on the computer, an old (10 and 9 years for mines) HP with a good keyboard, yeah totally useless to pack an extra board with it, a newer Dell though, that is an other story. those are my 2 main experiences with modernish laptops, i do not know what recent HP keyboards are like, just that my old elite and pro books have pretty decent keyboards, and that the dell i have to work with at work have bad enough keyboards that everyone that got one want an external keyboard after one week of use, and none of them are keyboard enthusiast.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Fri, 15 January 2021, 01:35:42
Wanting a great laptop typing experience on the go is another great benefit of 40% keebs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Fri, 15 January 2021, 01:57:24
Wanting a great laptop typing experience on the go is another great benefit of 40% keebs.
either you laptop is very rather small. or anyhow your keyboard is smaller than your laptop by a rather large margin, my 60% is about 5cm less wide than my 15" laptop, so a 40%... and to me i already would like to have one or 2 more keys on my 60% so i can't imagine using a 40% to be particularly better than a laptop, although for 2 different reasons mind you.
although for typing on English only maybe 40% is enough. i dunno as i need to type in 2 language + code
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Fri, 15 January 2021, 02:10:31
Wanting a great laptop typing experience on the go is another great benefit of 40% keebs.
either you laptop is very rather small. or anyhow your keyboard is smaller than your laptop by a rather large margin, my 60% is about 5cm less wide than my 15" laptop, so a 40%... and to me i already would like to have one or 2 more keys on my 60% so i can't imagine using a 40% to be particularly better than a laptop, although for 2 different reasons mind you.
although for typing on English only maybe 40% is enough. i dunno as i need to type in 2 language + code
for me a 65% is perfect (specially a thin tray mounted one)

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: whezil on Sat, 16 January 2021, 10:01:45
1. I hate spacebar. In particular the size of it. Anything greater than 2.25u is just a waste, I want to use my thumbs for more than occasionally tapping spacebar.


  I'm also puzzled by the massive spacebar.  3u would be a perfectly adequate spacebar size, IME.  However, I do need my function keys - I don't do layers.

I guess it depends what you are using your keyboard for. Personally after discovering custom keyboards and finding out layers are a thing, I love them. I prefer re-using keys that are easy to access like binding stuff to home row as opposed to stretching all the way over to function keys. I also dislike how far the backspace key is which is where my hate for spacebar stems from and love for Alice layouts begins. A good few buttons for my thumbs to use to participate in typing. I like minimal movements and remembering which key combos to press to achieve something rather than having a dedicated key on my board.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Learis on Sat, 16 January 2021, 15:19:38
I'm saying this more to vent than as an opinion. But I really wish engineers would just re-invent the stabilizer. I feel like we can do better than what we have. It is so frustrating to be putting in a ton of dialetric grease only to have my stabilizer still making ticks and rattles, meanwhile my switch has become extremely mushy. Then I have to try straightening out the wire to see if that's the cause... then maybe try putting random pieces of bandaid or foam inside the stab housing and mess that up... and then 15 other tricks people have tried to remove rattle. Or I just hit the jackpot and a stabilizer works for no apparent reason on the first try.

Please engineers... just invent a non-rattling stabilizer. Start from scratch and make a new design. We put a man on the moon, surely this can be done.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Sat, 16 January 2021, 16:27:47
I'm saying this more to vent than as an opinion. But I really wish engineers would just re-invent the stabilizer. I feel like we can do better than what we have. It is so frustrating to be putting in a ton of dialetric grease only to have my stabilizer still making ticks and rattles, meanwhile my switch has become extremely mushy. Then I have to try straightening out the wire to see if that's the cause... then maybe try putting random pieces of bandaid or foam inside the stab housing and mess that up... and then 15 other tricks people have tried to remove rattle. Or I just hit the jackpot and a stabilizer works for no apparent reason on the first try.

Please engineers... just invent a non-rattling stabilizer. Start from scratch and make a new design. We put a man on the moon, surely this can be done.
rattle is like a man's baldness, it's ugly and frustrating but not harming anyone, so yeah, nobody gonna cure it properly

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Sat, 16 January 2021, 20:17:53
I'm saying this more to vent than as an opinion. But I really wish engineers would just re-invent the stabilizer. I feel like we can do better than what we have. It is so frustrating to be putting in a ton of dialetric grease only to have my stabilizer still making ticks and rattles, meanwhile my switch has become extremely mushy. Then I have to try straightening out the wire to see if that's the cause... then maybe try putting random pieces of bandaid or foam inside the stab housing and mess that up... and then 15 other tricks people have tried to remove rattle. Or I just hit the jackpot and a stabilizer works for no apparent reason on the first try.

Please engineers... just invent a non-rattling stabilizer. Start from scratch and make a new design. We put a man on the moon, surely this can be done.

Honestly, I think If cherry had just used dummy switches way back when the MX first came out, we'd be better off. I did a test with a 2.25U key and using a regular switch and a second one with the contacts and spring removed worked pretty well. I could imagine some lighter-than red switches working really well as a stabilizer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 16 January 2021, 20:31:16

If cherry had just used dummy switches


I agree. As Occam's Razor suggests, the simplest solution is often the best.

Even the behemoth IBM went from wires to inserts in the early Model M days, but then later sometimes back slid.

I suppose that an inch of bent wire is about as cheap as you can go.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Sat, 16 January 2021, 20:46:20
  I'm also puzzled by the massive spacebar.  3u would be a perfectly adequate spacebar size, IME.  However, I do need my function keys - I don't do layers.

I guess it depends what you are using your keyboard for. Personally after discovering custom keyboards and finding out layers are a thing, I love them. I prefer re-using keys that are easy to access like binding stuff to home row as opposed to stretching all the way over to function keys.

  It does certainly depend on your purpose.  Home row is a typing concept that isn't compatible with a lot of games.  I went from being a home row loving VI loving programmer to being a gamer fairly recently, so I only encountered this problem in the last few years.  The "last straw" issue that caused me to ditch my old 65% keyboard was problems using function key layers and n-key rollover limits in some games, as well as using joystick/throttle controllers with games that still needed function keys.  It was really awkward and detrimental for some games to release some actions to do the 2-key "function key" combos.  Just give me a dang dedicated function key row - so much easier!  So now I prefer 75% 84-key boards with handy-dandy function keys. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Sun, 17 January 2021, 03:39:36
Probably have been already said, but IMO big ass enter key is the superior enter key
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 17 January 2021, 08:01:47
I might tend to agree, but it usually comes at the unacceptable penalty of altering the shape of Backspace and/or Right Shift.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Sun, 17 January 2021, 19:11:42
I might tend to agree, but it usually comes at the unacceptable penalty of altering the shape of Backspace and/or Right Shift.

I'd happily exile the \| button to a different layer for a big ass enter key.
When I think about it, I might be able to alter a Big ass enter key to fit over the \| switch's stem, wish there was a Cherry profile one though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sun, 17 January 2021, 22:13:15

As a noob in these parts, I am puzzled by the "aviator" cable with the honking big clunky connector in the middle and the tight coil.


It is just another example of feature items that are just for show. Aviator cables and artisan caps are some of the most conspicuous examples of these trends.

One could argue that they offer a convenient way of switching between USB types for different devices. I've built two aviator cables for myself for fun, they're cool... Bulky, but I have a lot of free real estate on my desk.

Lemo on the other hand looks sick, but the prices of them are outlandish.

I love coiled cables. Reminds me of rotary landlines we had growing up  :D

I use female aviator sockets mounted directly to the case on keyboards that I want to be able to swing around over my head by the cable or use them as boat anchors and have them still work. Otherwise, yeah, they're pretty pointless when you can use magnetic cables for quick switching between USB interfaces.

I've used the Fujitsu keyboard, which is generally considered to be an awful keyboard because it has a 'backwards' tactile response, and I didn't think it was so bad.

What do you mean by the Fujitsu keyboard? Fujitsu Peerless switches? I was just talking to somebody recently who runs a computer recycling/resale shop. The guy's literally been surrounded by nice vintage keyboards for years. A friend of mine that works there has had Model Ms all over the shop that everyone uses, and the owner never got into them, or any other mechanicals. All of a sudden recently he tried Fujitsu Peerless and I kid you not he's got some beat up old Fujitsu board at his computer now and is just finally starting to research all of the other things that are out there because of it. I was literally there learning of these developments because they had an IBM beamspring board there that they were selling and I had never tried one before. He hated the feel of the beamspring ... and was gushing about the cheap Peerless switches. I think Fujitsu Peerless is either loved or hated. I actually think they're kind of nice/interesting myself.


Contrary opinion: don't lube at all. Lubing is dumb. If you need to lube, you've picked a dumb switch.
i do agree there, switches should smooth out with time, if you need lube your switch is rather poor, my gat silent reds started off a bit scratchy but after about 2 months of rather heavy use only the keys i use the very least still feel a bit scratchy.
out of that experience i feel like lubing is rather a waste of time, but then in those times peoples do have time to waste.

Yes, agreed. I have never lubed a switch, and I never plan to unless I get really bored and/or try saving some really dirty Alps switches.

filco is overpriced and has terrible typing experience
realforce is ugly
topre is overrated

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I agree on Realforce and Topre, although Topre does feel great ... just not worth the buzz. My Rosewill Filco knockoff seems like a great keyboard besides the MX browns though.

Costar stabs are a nightmare. I'd rather use unlubed Cherry than Costar.

Pretty sure that is for some reason a popular opinion given cherry seems to be by far the most popular choice.

I don't see it myself, costar has the best keyfeel, I don't care about rattle.

Yes, agreed. I actually quite like rattly Costars even.

I'm not sure it's wise to out myself like this on my very first post, but here we go:

- PBT caps are overrated and chalky, broken in ABS shine is pleasant to use
- Tactile and clicky switches are both closer in feel to rubber domes than linear
- Complicated Alps really don't offer anything special over simplified Alps, and are prone to issues with key chatter that nobody likes to talk about
- The clean, crisp bottom out is one of the major benefits of mechanical boards and orings completely, totally ruin it
- Topre is an okay switch, but a realforce really shouldn't sell for even a penny over $80
- A little bit of keycap wobble actually makes for a more forgiving typing experience
- Any keyboard smaller than a 60% is a cruel, claustrophobic joke to see how many less switches you'll still pay actual money for
- Packing a separate keyboard to use with your laptop is cringey and not worth the backpack space

- I agree about PBT.
- I'm not sure where you're going with tactiles and clickies feeling closer to rubber domes than linears other than the fact that rubber domes are tactile. One could also argue that a rubber dome is closer to linear than they are to very tactile clickies, like Alps or box navies. Then there's Matias' "linears" which actually kind of have a tactile bump at the end of travel.
- That segways nicely into complicated vs simplified Alps. Have you tried SKCM blue Alps switches in perfect shape? I'm literally using some early-ish SKCM white Alps right next to some Matias switches at this very moment and these particular white Alps switches definitely have noticeable differences that some may prefer over simplified Alps. I think the difference between the two is a little blown out of proportion myself and use Matias clickies just about every day, but there's no arguing that some good SKCM blue Alps are a little more smooth/refined and bassier (for whatever that last part is worth).
- I haven't had any problems with chatter with any Alps, or derivative, boards that haven't been heavily abused (the plates usually look like they've spent some time at the bottom of the ocean in those cases). Matias actually used to be known for chatter problems, although I can't seem to find a single used board that has that problem yet.
- I agree at least partially that orings basically make mechanical boards feel like rubber domes, at least the cheap Rosewill ones I tried years ago. I think there are newer options that can get closer in feel to dampened switches though.
- Yes, Topre is overpriced and overhyped.
- I don't care about wobble one way or another unless it is so bad it is inhibiting typing accurately.
- I don't even like boards as small as 60%. I think you'll find a lot of people who agree.
- Yeah, packing a separate keyboard may be cringey, but laptops have some pretty terrible keyboards, so I might do it anyway.

I'm saying this more to vent than as an opinion. But I really wish engineers would just re-invent the stabilizer. I feel like we can do better than what we have. It is so frustrating to be putting in a ton of dialetric grease only to have my stabilizer still making ticks and rattles, meanwhile my switch has become extremely mushy. Then I have to try straightening out the wire to see if that's the cause... then maybe try putting random pieces of bandaid or foam inside the stab housing and mess that up... and then 15 other tricks people have tried to remove rattle. Or I just hit the jackpot and a stabilizer works for no apparent reason on the first try.

Please engineers... just invent a non-rattling stabilizer. Start from scratch and make a new design. We put a man on the moon, surely this can be done.
rattle is like a man's baldness, it's ugly and frustrating but not harming anyone, so yeah, nobody gonna cure it properly

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Or, if you're crazy like me, you like your keyboards to be as thunderous as possible and actually like rattling noises ... and the idea of adding solenoids and buzzers.

I might tend to agree, but it usually comes at the unacceptable penalty of altering the shape of Backspace and/or Right Shift.

I'd happily exile the \| button to a different layer for a big ass enter key.
When I think about it, I might be able to alter a Big ass enter key to fit over the \| switch's stem, wish there was a Cherry profile one though.

Oddly, I don't mind the 1u backspace keys ... although I hate ISO enter keys. Long live the big ass enter. I wish it were easier to find new production caps for those poor old boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Sun, 17 January 2021, 23:35:12
im with you on the thunderous one, I have a board with kailh box navy, durock stock stab, no pcb foam, no case foam, tray mounted, alu plate, it's as loud as ya can imagine lol, sometimes I do enjoy it, especially on a sad winter day
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Mon, 18 January 2021, 00:21:40

I'd happily exile the \| button to a different layer for a big ass enter key.

Why does your wee little pinkie need a big ass enter key? 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Mon, 18 January 2021, 02:43:40

I'd happily exile the \| button to a different layer for a big ass enter key.

Why does your wee little pinkie need a big ass enter key?
for the glorious of Satan of course my friend

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 18 January 2021, 04:52:36
Probably have been already said, but IMO big ass enter key is the superior enter key
I don't mind the shape. However, most keyboards with the key that I have tried stabilise they key only on the vertical or on the horizontal, and so suffered from binding if pressed in the "wrong" spot.
On those that did have both a vertical and a horizontal stabiliser, pulling and replacing the key wasn't easy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Mon, 18 January 2021, 06:59:47
Probably have been already said, but IMO big ass enter key is the superior enter key
I don't mind the shape. However, most keyboards with the key that I have tried stabilise they key only on the vertical or on the horizontal, and so suffered from binding if pressed in the "wrong" spot.
On those that did have both a vertical and a horizontal stabiliser, pulling and replacing the key wasn't easy.
I have a modern board with a big ass enter key (https://imgur.com/a/souUaTC) (Celeritas II).
It has rather unique way to mount the keycap, replacing it is easy, just a matter of pulling hard enough.

A bit rattly, but very smooth with zero binding (but that could be due to the KB using very smooth switches).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Mon, 18 January 2021, 21:51:47
I might tend to agree, but it usually comes at the unacceptable penalty of altering the shape of Backspace and/or Right Shift.

This is why the Focus layout is the superior keyboard layout.

(https://i.imgur.com/f5sHr0ch.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ActualDinosaur on Tue, 19 January 2021, 00:42:39
This is why the Focus layout is the superior keyboard layout.
Excellent layout.

- I'm not sure where you're going with tactiles and clickies feeling closer to rubber domes than linears other than the fact that rubber domes are tactile. One could also argue that a rubber dome is closer to linear than they are to very tactile clickies, like Alps or box navies. Then there's Matias' "linears" which actually kind of have a tactile bump at the end of travel.
- That segways nicely into complicated vs simplified Alps. Have you tried SKCM blue Alps switches in perfect shape? I'm literally using some early-ish SKCM white Alps right next to some Matias switches at this very moment and these particular white Alps switches definitely have noticeable differences that some may prefer over simplified Alps. I think the difference between the two is a little blown out of proportion myself and use Matias clickies just about every day, but there's no arguing that some good SKCM blue Alps are a little more smooth/refined and bassier (for whatever that last part is worth).
- I haven't had any problems with chatter with any Alps, or derivative, boards that haven't been heavily abused (the plates usually look like they've spent some time at the bottom of the ocean in those cases). Matias actually used to be known for chatter problems, although I can't seem to find a single used board that has that problem yet.
I've never felt a rubber dome as butter smooth as a linear. I assume the way they collapse makes it impossible. You can still put a click bar on a rubber dome if you really want. Not saying they are good or bad, just that in my opinion they're the hardest to emulate with rubber domes.

As far as Alps / Matias, I can confirm that I had a bit of a chattery Matias board. Never had the issue with simplified Alps, but maybe it's not SKCM specific. I did an Alps64 build with a handful of really clean blue alps, and beautiful switch I agree. I simply believe that the skcm switch plate is a less robust connection. Those tolerances are tight, but like, '80's tight'. Mine like a good blast of compressed air to keep them happy. Never had to do that for any other switches. Not a big deal, but something of note.

 
- Yeah, packing a separate keyboard may be cringey, but laptops have some pretty terrible keyboards, so I might do it anyway.
I certainly can't stop you, truth is I rarely even pack a computer anymore.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 19 January 2021, 10:54:24
This is why the Focus layout is the superior keyboard layout.
Excellent layout.

Indeed

- I'm not sure where you're going with tactiles and clickies feeling closer to rubber domes than linears other than the fact that rubber domes are tactile. One could also argue that a rubber dome is closer to linear than they are to very tactile clickies, like Alps or box navies. Then there's Matias' "linears" which actually kind of have a tactile bump at the end of travel.
- That segways nicely into complicated vs simplified Alps. Have you tried SKCM blue Alps switches in perfect shape? I'm literally using some early-ish SKCM white Alps right next to some Matias switches at this very moment and these particular white Alps switches definitely have noticeable differences that some may prefer over simplified Alps. I think the difference between the two is a little blown out of proportion myself and use Matias clickies just about every day, but there's no arguing that some good SKCM blue Alps are a little more smooth/refined and bassier (for whatever that last part is worth).
- I haven't had any problems with chatter with any Alps, or derivative, boards that haven't been heavily abused (the plates usually look like they've spent some time at the bottom of the ocean in those cases). Matias actually used to be known for chatter problems, although I can't seem to find a single used board that has that problem yet.
I've never felt a rubber dome as butter smooth as a linear. I assume the way they collapse makes it impossible. You can still put a click bar on a rubber dome if you really want. Not saying they are good or bad, just that in my opinion they're the hardest to emulate with rubber domes.

As far as Alps / Matias, I can confirm that I had a bit of a chattery Matias board. Never had the issue with simplified Alps, but maybe it's not SKCM specific. I did an Alps64 build with a handful of really clean blue alps, and beautiful switch I agree. I simply believe that the skcm switch plate is a less robust connection. Those tolerances are tight, but like, '80's tight'. Mine like a good blast of compressed air to keep them happy. Never had to do that for any other switches. Not a big deal, but something of note.

So you're talking more about smoothness than tactility? I would try Topre if you haven't, very smooth. Some of the older dome with slider boards are quite nice too. This conflates the topic even more in my mind though. Those SKCM blues you've got are a little scratchy then, I imagine? Most seem to agree that once they become rough, there's no putting that genie back in the bottle. When they're in good shape, they're about as buttery smooth as you can get and still have a tactile event. Have you ever tried capacitive buckling spring, beam springs or box switches? They're all very smooth clicky switches. I would put Matias in the same category, but that may be dependent on condition, like Alps. I don't go down the rabbit hole of lubricants, but I haven't tried any stock linears that I could definitively say are smoother than the smoothest of clickies.

Otherwise, am I misunderstanding the comparison you're trying to make?

I have had one Matias board that I bought new, and it did chatter a bit when I first got it. I don't count that because it cleared up entirely within a week of constant use. One of the more convincing theories on this to me are that maybe Matias was soldering switches on when their contacts weren't perfectly straight, for a period of time. It would explain why reflowing the solder on the legs and/or replacing the switch seems to almost always fixes it. Matias switches are actually currently manufactured by Gaote/Outemu, but they're essentially simplified Alps. I don't think I have any Alps-branded simplified Alps besides in an old Matias board that I haven't really used yet.

Have you had problems with chatter with SKCM/SKCL? I think I have some yellow SKCLs that had a problem with that, but I literally could not even see the plate beneath the rust and debris on that board.

- Yeah, packing a separate keyboard may be cringey, but laptops have some pretty terrible keyboards, so I might do it anyway.
I certainly can't stop you, truth is I rarely even pack a computer anymore.

I only use my phone when there's no other reasonable option. I hate touch screens.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Fri, 22 January 2021, 16:44:11
Orange Alps are hollow and don't have much to feel.

All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

Good rubber dome keyboards with stabilizers are nice.

Lubing switches seems to be an infectious disease.

The keyboard community hasn't made much progress in the past 10 years.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 22 January 2021, 17:42:06

I only use my phone when there's no other reasonable option. I hate touch screens.

Preach  on, brother...  I mostly use mine to play solitaire and rummy while waiting for the dentist.  Otherwise I ignore the stupid thing and leave it behind as much as possible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yqqdrasil on Fri, 22 January 2021, 18:53:52
All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

I feel like every time I go on keyboard related outlet theres a new MX switch recolour and I honestly don't get it, unless you don't plan on putting keycaps on wtf is the point in these flashy looking switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 22 January 2021, 23:52:27
All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

I feel like every time I go on keyboard related outlet theres a new MX switch recolour and I honestly don't get it, unless you don't plan on putting keycaps on wtf is the point in these flashy looking switches.

Instagram bragging rights?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: S61 on Sat, 23 January 2021, 01:10:29
Currently using the 1800mini Layout, I can click back and enter easily without symbol key, Num Pad area good at modify software parameters,the length is about the same as the 65% layout
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Sat, 23 January 2021, 06:10:03
Btw, stuff like Holy Pandas also falls into the 'MX clones' category.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Sat, 23 January 2021, 06:32:02
Btw, stuff like Holy Pandas also falls into the 'MX clones' category.
holy panda is not interesting tho

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Sat, 23 January 2021, 07:03:58
So that's actually a popular opinion?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Sat, 23 January 2021, 12:29:58
SteelSeries Apex Pro is great because it's a broadly available, affordable keyboard with Hall Effect switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Sat, 23 January 2021, 18:39:02
So that's actually a popular opinion?
probably not, holy panda is super hyped, it's like 99% of  people who care about keyboard would recommend it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 23 January 2021, 20:56:54
SteelSeries Apex Pro is great because it's a broadly available, affordable keyboard with Hall Effect switches.

Yo!
Has Chyros reviewed these?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Sun, 24 January 2021, 06:36:52
SteelSeries Apex Pro is great because it's a broadly available, affordable keyboard with Hall Effect switches.

Yo!
Has Chyros reviewed these?
Yes
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Sun, 24 January 2021, 06:50:46
So that's actually a popular opinion?
probably not, holy panda is super hyped, it's like 99% of  people who care about keyboard would recommend it
From Amazon reviews:

Quote
It is a really nice feeling switch, but my springs came in different sizes. However, if I didn't open them up, I wouldn't have noticed.

Quote
I open them up to lube and film and notice more than half of the switch has broken legs.
Returning this broken product and I'll just stick to T1 switches from now on.

FYI, this issue has also been reported on DROP's website as well.

Quote
broken stem legs, unequal spring lengths, and poor packaging causing the switches to look like they exploded in the box

Quote
Pack of 110 pieces had 21 with broken legs off the tactile stem

I think I'll stick to my very imperfect German made switches :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 24 January 2021, 07:53:40
So that's actually a popular opinion?
probably not, holy panda is super hyped, it's like 99% of  people who care about keyboard would recommend it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Maybe like 2, 3 years ago HPs were super hyped. At this point though I think the whole "biggest bump" craze is coming to an end. Linear switches have cemented their place as kings of the MX realm & most of the hyped MX tactiles that came out recently have used a medium sized bump as a selling point.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Sun, 24 January 2021, 08:21:55
So that's actually a popular opinion?
probably not, holy panda is super hyped, it's like 99% of  people who care about keyboard would recommend it

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Maybe like 2, 3 years ago HPs were super hyped. At this point though I think the whole "biggest bump" craze is coming to an end. Linear switches have cemented their place as kings of the MX realm & most of the hyped MX tactiles that came out recently have used a medium sized bump as a selling point.
well, HP is still highly hyped here in Asia, tbh I dont like tactile switch, linear is better

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Sun, 24 January 2021, 13:24:56
Orange Alps are hollow and don't have much to feel.

All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

Good rubber dome keyboards with stabilizers are nice.

Lubing switches seems to be an infectious disease.

The keyboard community hasn't made much progress in the past 10 years.
Only real innovation is pushed by Kailh, revived the click switches with the clickbar, provided actual redesign of MX style switches (BOX). 
The rest are just recolors of linears or HP stems inside different housings.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pmdbt on Sun, 24 January 2021, 14:56:44
Btw, stuff like Holy Pandas also falls into the 'MX clones' category.

You might be onto something because for the life of me, I can't tell that much difference between my holy pandas and my gateron milky browns... To say I was disappointed would be an understatement.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hmmmwhatsthis on Sun, 24 January 2021, 20:15:49
Btw, stuff like Holy Pandas also falls into the 'MX clones' category.

You might be onto something because for the life of me, I can't tell that much difference between my holy pandas and my gateron milky browns... To say I was disappointed would be an understatement.

90% of this community is now hype-train subjectivity vs. tangible difference.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Mon, 25 January 2021, 12:21:27
I honestly feel like Mechs are in a bubble right now, and that the current stream of near-identical boards and dozens of keysets a month isn't something that can last for much longer. Once a stable library of in-stock keebs/switches/PCBs/keysets hit the market and people shift away from making their desk the focus of their hobby spending, the bottom will fall out.

Btw, stuff like Holy Pandas also falls into the 'MX clones' category.

You might be onto something because for the life of me, I can't tell that much difference between my holy pandas and my gateron milky browns... To say I was disappointed would be an understatement.

I can't imagine thinking those two switches felt alike. :eek:
MX linears are all way more alike than different, but tactiles are at least slightly more diverse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Mon, 25 January 2021, 14:24:50
People need to stop with the preference thing, especially with tactiles. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kaidesk_Lee on Mon, 25 January 2021, 15:00:01
Not sure if this counts as unpopular, but I like heavy switch springs. I put a 150g spring in my space bar switch just to test an aluminium prototype, and never replaced it. Went back to the normal ABS space bar, then it took about an hour of typinglikethis to get used to. Now it feels great, I can really attack it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 25 January 2021, 18:14:08
Orange Alps are hollow and don't have much to feel.

Never tried them, don't have much reason to.

All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

Good rubber dome keyboards with stabilizers are nice.

Lubing switches seems to be an infectious disease.

The keyboard community hasn't made much progress in the past 10 years.

Agreed.

I only use my phone when there's no other reasonable option. I hate touch screens.

Preach  on, brother...  I mostly use mine to play solitaire and rummy while waiting for the dentist.  Otherwise I ignore the stupid thing and leave it behind as much as possible.

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 26 January 2021, 23:07:30
Orange Alps are hollow and don't have much to feel.

All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

Good rubber dome keyboards with stabilizers are nice.

Lubing switches seems to be an infectious disease.

The keyboard community hasn't made much progress in the past 10 years.

What do you think are some examples of good rubber-dome keyboards besides Topre?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Wed, 27 January 2021, 01:16:23
A lot of old dome with sliders aren't bad, I have a quite good BTC dome with slider and an NMB dome with slider that are nice. But like $30 nice, not $100 nice.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Wed, 27 January 2021, 01:30:06
What do you think are some examples of good rubber-dome keyboards besides Topre?
isn't this question nonsensical, some peoples rather type on rubber domes, find that mushy bottom out comfortable, so for them mechs and topre offers not much benefits. the thing is that all of that is rather very subjective, so even if someone like a 3 usd random keyboard better than a 300 usd topre does not mean that you will find it nice, "good" is not something that really applies there, the good keyboard is the one you enjoy typing on, be it a 3000usd beamspring, 500usd topre or 3usd rubber dome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 27 January 2021, 03:06:28
A lot of old dome with sliders aren't bad, I have a quite good BTC dome with slider and an NMB dome with slider that are nice. But like $30 nice, not $100 nice.

I probably paid about $50-60 for my BTC including the converters. I do not consider this a bargain. If it was $30, it would have been a good deal.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 27 January 2021, 09:23:25
What do you think are some examples of good rubber-dome keyboards besides Topre?
isn't this question nonsensical, some peoples rather type on rubber domes, find that mushy bottom out comfortable, so for them mechs and topre offers not much benefits. the thing is that all of that is rather very subjective, so even if someone like a 3 usd random keyboard better than a 300 usd topre does not mean that you will find it nice, "good" is not something that really applies there, the good keyboard is the one you enjoy typing on, be it a 3000usd beamspring, 500usd topre or 3usd rubber dome.

Almost everything old at least seemed to make some attempt at an enjoyable typing experience up to at least the early 90s.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Wed, 27 January 2021, 09:42:26
Yes, I used older rubber-dome keyboards and had no problems. I just wonder what's in current production where the manufacturer attempted to create an enjoyable typing experience.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 27 January 2021, 11:28:28
Yes, I used older rubber-dome keyboards and had no problems. I just wonder what's in current production where the manufacturer attempted to create an enjoyable typing experience.

I think there are some modern "mem-chanical" keyboards that sort of resurrected the idea of domes with sliders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ToG3W2cbI). They're usually some kind of budget-oriented, commercialized, mass market "gaming keyboard".

I think I very briefly felt one of the Razer dome boards, and it was ok? Better than what typically comes free with some random desktop computer.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Wed, 27 January 2021, 11:40:32
Orange Alps are hollow and don't have much to feel.

All these new MX clones are pointless and uninteresting.

Good rubber dome keyboards with stabilizers are nice.

Lubing switches seems to be an infectious disease.

The keyboard community hasn't made much progress in the past 10 years.

What do you think are some examples of good rubber-dome keyboards besides Topre?

As many others have mentioned BTC dome with slider, NMB dome with slider, also I'll add Scorpius dome with slider to that list.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Wed, 27 January 2021, 12:07:48
Here's another one that will probably trigger a lof of linear lovers. 
Cherry stabs with the legs are far better than clipped, they're less noisy and they really dont feel mushy at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Wed, 27 January 2021, 13:29:33
Here's another one that will probably trigger a lof of linear lovers. 
Cherry stabs with the legs are far better than clipped, they're less noisy and they really dont feel mushy at all.

Honestly I think this comes down to personal preference TBH. What does blow my mind though is the band aid mod, people clip their stabs then put pieces of whatever under them when just leaving the legs on would accomplish the same feel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: C1TRU5 on Wed, 27 January 2021, 15:04:53
Okay here's mine.

I like low-profile switches better. I would rather have my fingers be traveling less to type each letter.

Currently still using a regular mechy though, having the satisfying feel and sound is loads better than my typing speed on a flat chicklet keyboard. But I do wish there were more options for low profile switches. What I want just doesn't seem to exist right now.
I've been thinking about figuring out how to design my own.. but I have no idea what to do after I have an actual design. I wouldn't want to spend that much time without knowing if I could actually make them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 27 January 2021, 15:06:40
Okay here's mine.

I like low-profile switches better. I would rather have my fingers be traveling less to type each letter.

Currently still using a regular mechy though, having the satisfying feel and sound is loads better than my typing speed on a flat chicklet keyboard. But I do wish there were more options for low profile switches. What I want just doesn't seem to exist right now.
I've been thinking about figuring out how to design my own.. but I have no idea what to do after I have an actual design. I wouldn't want to spend that much time without knowing if I could actually make them.

I think more people would consider this reasonable if there were enough low-profile switches. Kailh's Choc switches seem pretty nice to me, but all I care about are clickies.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: KimchiKardashian on Thu, 28 January 2021, 02:00:43
Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

And art is just chemicals on a canvas!  :p
love is just chemicals in your brain.

seeing how hating on 60% keyboards is actually popular i'm gonna go and say something truly unpopular-

i love them, i think 60% are the perfect layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Thu, 28 January 2021, 02:16:24
Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

And art is just chemicals on a canvas!  :p
love is just chemicals in your brain.

seeing how hating on 60% keyboards is actually popular i'm gonna go and say something truly unpopular-

i love them, i think 60% are the perfect layout.
i do not think peoples hate 60% per say, just that everybody and their dogs has made a 60% board and tried to sell it, while there are quite a few opensource 60% available. the market is just completely flooded and seller keeps on adding more of them, while there are almost no options for larger keyboards, so peoples who are in the market for 60% are rather content and silent, because they have plenty of options, but peoples who need a bit more start to get tiered of it.
and i would not call 60% perfect, but i can see it as a decent compromise to a lot of peoples to me perfection is 122 keys with a 7u spacebar but i still use a 60% because, well there is no options in 122%, switches are expensive and space comes at a premium (still got a 7u bar though :))

oh and artisan keycaps are more often made of resin, no? and resin is relatively extremely expensive as are molds, so although i do not want them on my boards i do understand why artisans sells them at a premium,
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 28 January 2021, 12:27:11
to me perfection is 122 keys with a 7u spacebar but i still use a 60% because, well there is no options in 122%, switches are expensive and space comes at a premium (still got a 7u bar though :))

F122? M122? There have been some 122% MX-compatible board projects, haven't there?

i do not think peoples hate 60% per say

I do hate 60% myself, but I don't think that's a popular opinion. It makes sense that it would be popular for specific use cases. The problem is that as size decreases, so does overall flexibility. Those that claim otherwise are kidding themselves.

Even on the layout of the previous user of this F107, I keep getting frustrated that there's no dedicated escape or print screen keys and keep telling myself I'll fix that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Thu, 28 January 2021, 21:39:10
to me perfection is 122 keys with a 7u spacebar but i still use a 60% because, well there is no options in 122%, switches are expensive and space comes at a premium (still got a 7u bar though :))

F122? M122? There have been some 122% MX-compatible board projects, haven't there?


https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.0

You're welcome.

Quote
Even on the layout of the previous user of this F107, I keep getting frustrated that there's no dedicated escape or print screen keys and keep telling myself I'll fix that.

Burn it with fire man, burn it with fire. The first thing I do on weird keyboards such as these is drop the tilde. I don't use that ****. That is now an escape. Even if it sometimes still looks like a tilde, it's escape.

(https://i.imgur.com/6Eu76Clh.jpg)

That thing by the F2? Escape. {}? Return.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Fri, 29 January 2021, 01:43:41
F122? M122? There have been some 122% MX-compatible board projects, haven't there?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106501.0
You're welcome.

i know the M122, i have 4, the F122 is a bit our of my reach and i knew of the boston, but the point is that is not many options, you can find in stock at least 5 different custom ready 60% pcb + GB + pre-builts.
and the boston does not tick all my boxes :) the arrows incroching into the bottom row is a big no for me as is the lack of gaps in the winkeyless configuration

Burn it with fire man, burn it with fire. The first thing I do on weird keyboards such as these is drop the tilde. I don't use that ****. That is now an escape. Even if it sometimes still looks like a tilde, it's escape.
i had done that, and then my random password generator put a ` in my password... so now the escape is on a layer as typing the password across layers was a pain
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 29 January 2021, 08:12:41

there is no options in 122


NMB "Space Invaders" is available in a really nice 122-key board, if you like ISO Enter (it can't be modified to ANSI like ancient IBM iron), plus, if my memory serves me well, it has a standard PS/2 connector.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: C1TRU5 on Fri, 29 January 2021, 13:28:32
Okay here's mine.

I like low-profile switches better. I would rather have my fingers be traveling less to type each letter.

Currently still using a regular mechy though, having the satisfying feel and sound is loads better than my typing speed on a flat chicklet keyboard. But I do wish there were more options for low profile switches. What I want just doesn't seem to exist right now.
I've been thinking about figuring out how to design my own.. but I have no idea what to do after I have an actual design. I wouldn't want to spend that much time without knowing if I could actually make them.

I think more people would consider this reasonable if there were enough low-profile switches. Kailh's Choc switches seem pretty nice to me, but all I care about are clickies.


Is there something in the way of making more low-profile switches? Like some kind of difficult engineering barrier? Or is it just a matter of someone making a new switch? I feel like there is market for it, but I could be wrong. I kinda wish I could just design my own and be done with it
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 29 January 2021, 17:03:53
Burn it with fire man, burn it with fire. The first thing I do on weird keyboards such as these is drop the tilde. I don't use that ****. That is now an escape. Even if it sometimes still looks like a tilde, it's escape.

I may just do that, partly since my f107 has some yellow APL set on it. Sounds like I may just be able to wait on changing caps until the F reproduction caps are ready though too. I have one printed pearl/pebble set on order, should probably pick up a few more.



there is no options in 122


NMB "Space Invaders" is available in a really nice 122-key board, if you like ISO Enter (it can't be modified to ANSI like ancient IBM iron), plus, if my memory serves me well, it has a standard PS/2 connector.

I have seen those for sale for pretty reasonable prices. Space invaders are a lot nicer than Cherry MX in my opinion, that's about the extent of it though. Gateron and Outemu clickies give them a run for their money and box clickies are a lot better if you ask me.

I have seen some F122s for surprisingly sane prices on Ebay recently, even at buy-it-now prices. They were still well over $200 though.

Okay here's mine.

I like low-profile switches better. I would rather have my fingers be traveling less to type each letter.

Currently still using a regular mechy though, having the satisfying feel and sound is loads better than my typing speed on a flat chicklet keyboard. But I do wish there were more options for low profile switches. What I want just doesn't seem to exist right now.
I've been thinking about figuring out how to design my own.. but I have no idea what to do after I have an actual design. I wouldn't want to spend that much time without knowing if I could actually make them.

I think more people would consider this reasonable if there were enough low-profile switches. Kailh's Choc switches seem pretty nice to me, but all I care about are clickies.


Is there something in the way of making more low-profile switches? Like some kind of difficult engineering barrier? Or is it just a matter of someone making a new switch? I feel like there is market for it, but I could be wrong. I kinda wish I could just design my own and be done with it

Well, I imagine the size is a factor. Part of the motivation for IBM to go from beam spring to buckling spring is because some nebulous authority mandated switches of no more than a specific height. I forget what that authority was. Prior to that, if you look at switches up to the late 70s, they're all very tall. Manufacturers had to scramble to design shorter switches. Ironically, a lot of them were subsequently marketed as "low-profile" in the 1980s. Today we would think of them as standard height. Everything is a give and a take. If you make a switch shorter, you give up something else. That's the nice thing about clickbars. They're dead simple and don't require much of any vertical space, but you still lose overall travel, which a lot of people (including myself) value. For linears there are a lot less challenges involved in overall height, of course.

And then you have the question of why? Besides for in use in laptops, why do we need shorter-than-standard switches? What use case necessitates that compromise? If the only answer to that question is a preference for a shorter-traveling switch, then there's little motivation for development because there will be little demand.

Have you tried installing o-rings? I never liked the Rosewill ones I tried years ago because they made for a mushy bottom out, but I have heard that more modern ones can be better with that. They will, by design, reduce travel. I imagine you could try to jerry rig some kind of shims as well, like a relatively thin spacer or something.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Sat, 30 January 2021, 14:43:05

there is no options in 122


NMB "Space Invaders" is available in a really nice 122-key board, if you like ISO Enter (it can't be modified to ANSI like ancient IBM iron), plus, if my memory serves me well, it has a standard PS/2 connector.

Or, there is always Pylon's Boston, a more modern take on a 122:
(https://i.imgur.com/HZKJ3BK.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sat, 30 January 2021, 15:31:54
1800 is terrible. Honestly the cluster above nav is one of the main areas I do not like to have messed about with wacky layout, so 1800 is bulky and bad in this key way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pinkpurpleteal on Sun, 31 January 2021, 02:22:54
angled keyboards are unhealthy for your wrists and are extremely uncomfortable
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Sun, 31 January 2021, 02:34:40

there is no options in 122


NMB "Space Invaders" is available in a really nice 122-key board, if you like ISO Enter (it can't be modified to ANSI like ancient IBM iron), plus, if my memory serves me well, it has a standard PS/2 connector.

Or, there is always Pylon's Boston, a more modern take on a 122:
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/HZKJ3BK.jpg)

That.... actually looks quite interesting Oo .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 01 February 2021, 04:05:48
Or, there is always Pylon's Boston, a more modern take on a 122:
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/HZKJ3BK.jpg)

That.... actually looks quite interesting Oo .
a space saver for chyros :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Mon, 01 February 2021, 04:34:56
Or, there is always Pylon's Boston, a more modern take on a 122:
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/HZKJ3BK.jpg)

That.... actually looks quite interesting Oo .
a space saver for chyros :)
ohhhh, me likey likey, a giant mothafuvking artisan display board

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Mon, 01 February 2021, 05:22:17
It's not giant, it's quite compact.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Mon, 01 February 2021, 09:43:25
I got one for Chyros specifically: Staggered QWERTY is the Imperial Units of keyboard layouts.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Wed, 03 February 2021, 02:10:31
I got one for Chyros specifically: Staggered QWERTY is the Imperial Units of keyboard layouts.
Staggered QWERTY is the OPPOSITE of imperial units! All the other units are imperial; no-one uses them, and they are completely whimsical and pointless without any benefit.

I like the comparison though! xD Maybe I'll work it into a video someday, somehow.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chyros on Wed, 03 February 2021, 02:13:19
Or, there is always Pylon's Boston, a more modern take on a 122:
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/HZKJ3BK.jpg)

That.... actually looks quite interesting Oo .
a space saver for chyros :)
ohhhh, me likey likey, a giant mothafuvking artisan display board

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
If you think THAT'S giant, you should see anything battleship+ xD .
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Fri, 05 February 2021, 21:17:48
angled keyboards are unhealthy for your wrists and are extremely uncomfortable


This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion if we're gonna be honest. I'm unsure why people like steep angles, or any angles for that matter.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 05 February 2021, 21:20:47
angled keyboards are unhealthy for your wrists and are extremely uncomfortable


This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion if we're gonna be honest. I'm unsure why people like steep angles, or any angles for that matter.

Agreed. I always set mine as flat as possible.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 05 February 2021, 22:50:59
angled keyboards are unhealthy for your wrists and are extremely uncomfortable


This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion if we're gonna be honest. I'm unsure why people like steep angles, or any angles for that matter.

What angle works depends on your physiology, posture, seating, location of the keyboard, etc. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: paczki on Fri, 05 February 2021, 23:27:51
Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

And art is just chemicals on a canvas!  :p

Gottem  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sacresful on Sat, 06 February 2021, 06:18:50
angled keyboards are unhealthy for your wrists and are extremely uncomfortable


This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion if we're gonna be honest. I'm unsure why people like steep angles, or any angles for that matter.

At least for me, if i type with floating wrists(pretty much always) it's much more comfortable to have steep angle - 7+.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: casualdehid on Sun, 07 February 2021, 14:17:02
angled keyboards are unhealthy for your wrists and are extremely uncomfortable


This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion if we're gonna be honest. I'm unsure why people like steep angles, or any angles for that matter.

At least for me, if i type with floating wrists(pretty much always) it's much more comfortable to have steep angle - 7+.

for me the most comfortable typing angle is that of the M0118. At least for me it is perfect.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 08 February 2021, 09:04:06
Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

And art is just chemicals on a canvas!  :p

Gottem  :))

Art is pretty pointless too, in my opinion. I can appreciate the classics for their workmanship/skill, but when you start stacking rocks in the middle of a room, or just splattering random colors on a canvas, it gets a little ridiculous.

People like what they like though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 08 February 2021, 11:23:42
Artisan keycaps are just plastic at the end of the day -- people often forget that.

And art is just chemicals on a canvas!  :p

Gottem  :))

Art is pretty pointless too, in my opinion. I can appreciate the classics for their workmanship/skill, but when you start stacking rocks in the middle of a room, or just splattering random colors on a canvas, it gets a little ridiculous.

People like what they like though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Stacking rocks, and splatter paintings in this context appears to be a metaphor for bubbles in the plastics.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: micmil on Wed, 10 February 2021, 16:15:03
angled keyboards are unhealthy for your wrists and are extremely uncomfortable


This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion if we're gonna be honest. I'm unsure why people like steep angles, or any angles for that matter.

I used to prefer steeper angles. A lot of it was down to posture. The desk I had years ago was super shallow and the keyboard was close to the edge. Think about the "proper ergonomic" form drawings you see and how they all have keyboards on a tray under the desk and how close the keyboard is to the person. Now put the keyboard on top of the desk and imagine the angle your hands would be sitting at. That was my setup for YEARS and having a high angle on the keyboard basically made it such that my hands maintained a straight line with my arms. It was pretty good, actually.

As time went on I developed RSI from other things (the video games and the guitar and the fact that every other hobby I have maims tendons) and had to adjust my typing. Now I'm most comfortable on a very low and flat keyboard. How low and flat? I'm typing this on a Cherry KC 6000. This is for daily work, not gaming.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: louisgarbuor on Fri, 12 February 2021, 13:33:54
Here goes nothing.

Normal rubber dome keyboards aren't unusable. Also cheap mechanical boards are totally fine. And RGB isn't horrible, since it can be turned off. Other gAm3r stuff sucks though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 12 February 2021, 13:59:06
Here goes nothing.

Normal rubber dome keyboards aren't unusable. Also cheap mechanical boards are totally fine. And RGB isn't horrible, since it can be turned off. Other gAm3r stuff sucks though.

Agreed all around, except most gamer boards get more flak than they deserve as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Fri, 12 February 2021, 14:03:45
I'll play:

Blanks > Dots but they’re both dumb. And yes I can type blindfolded.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 12 February 2021, 14:55:48
angled keyboards are unhealthy for your wrists and are extremely uncomfortable


This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion if we're gonna be honest. I'm unsure why people like steep angles, or any angles for that matter.

The 456gt was my dream board but I had to sell it like a week after getting it because the angle was so absurdly steep. I'll never understand why they had to do that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: micmil on Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:16:40
Here goes nothing.

Normal rubber dome keyboards aren't unusable. Also cheap mechanical boards are totally fine. And RGB isn't horrible, since it can be turned off. Other gAm3r stuff sucks though.

As much as I like clickyclackclackkathunk there's something to be said for the sharp yet cushioned tactility a GOOD rubber dome can get. I mentioned my Cherry keyboard in the last post and it's a great example. Very short throw, very positive feedback, but soft enough that if you're a hamfisted keysmasher like me you're not bruising your fingers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Fri, 12 February 2021, 21:34:24
angled keyboards are unhealthy for your wrists and are extremely uncomfortable


This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion if we're gonna be honest. I'm unsure why people like steep angles, or any angles for that matter.

Agreed. I always set mine as flat as possible.



MAN I THOUGHT YOU WERE COOL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: micmil on Sat, 13 February 2021, 19:17:47
Here's one that's probably already been covered, and I'm not sure how "unpopular" it would be HERE but to the wider "gamer" world... most of what's considered "mechanical" switches aren't mechanical and trying to equate "mechanical" with "good" does irreparable harm by allowing asswads to market garbage like "mechanical feel" keyboards that are typically trash-tier rubber domes, even though you can absolutely type and play well on rubber domes (if you played UT back in the day there's every chance I wrecked your life in Facing Worlds with one of these badasses right here:
:))  ).

Is it good, or is it bad? Answer that question, then the how of its operation can be examined. Before then it's irrelevant.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 13 February 2021, 20:46:42
BTC rubber dome with sliders is a good keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: micmil on Sat, 13 February 2021, 21:01:41
BTC rubber dome with sliders is a good keyboard.

Quite. I think that completely slanted my view of keyboards since it came with the first real computer my family owned. I kept trying to replace it but everything else sucked in comparison. Mainly because I was broke-ass mid-90's kid and the bargain-bin fodder was all I could get my hands on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 15 February 2021, 09:10:23
angled keyboards are unhealthy for your wrists and are extremely uncomfortable


This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion if we're gonna be honest. I'm unsure why people like steep angles, or any angles for that matter.

Agreed. I always set mine as flat as possible.



MAN I THOUGHT YOU WERE COOL

Could you explain? I don't have anything against people tilting their boards to the extreme. I just don't know how they end up preferring it. I always wondered why keyboards even had adjustable feet growing up.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 15 February 2021, 09:52:56

I always wondered why keyboards even had adjustable feet


It seems to me that it would be better if the keyboard tilted away from you.

Well, unless it was too high already.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 15 February 2021, 10:05:13

I always wondered why keyboards even had adjustable feet


It seems to me that it would be better if the keyboard tilted away from you.

Well, unless it was too high already.

Yeah, that makes more sense to me as well. It does definitely all seem to be dependent on the height of the desk in relation to how high you're sitting in front of it. I'm almost always towering over almost every desk, but at the same time I also have no problem typing lying down entirely flat with an entirely flat keyboard on my lap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 15 February 2021, 10:33:25

I always wondered why keyboards even had adjustable feet


It seems to me that it would be better if the keyboard tilted away from you.

Well, unless it was too high already.

I'm using a negative tilt keyboard (Kinesis Advantage2) of sorts, and it does seem to be more comfortable for long sessions of typing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Mon, 15 February 2021, 14:48:15
If a switch is not good stock, and requires mods to be decent, then it’s not a good switch, especially when it’s from a big vendor. 
Just a thought after trying the T1 and the Bobas U4T.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 15 February 2021, 17:41:02
If a switch is not good stock, and requires mods to be decent, then it’s not a good switch, especially when it’s from a big vendor. 
Just a thought after trying the T1 and the Bobas U4T.

That one makes its rounds around here from time to time. I agree.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 15 February 2021, 18:12:46
Yea, lubing switches is kind of a pain.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Mon, 15 February 2021, 19:05:21
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 15 February 2021, 19:13:01
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

 :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Mon, 15 February 2021, 19:17:47
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

 :eek:

Give me a filco or hhkb anyday.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Mon, 15 February 2021, 23:25:06
Solid unpopular opinion, especially with a kishsaver! Haha. So many are basically attempting to recreate the feel of something like that, it takes guts to say it's dumb, that's for sure.

I agree though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Tue, 16 February 2021, 00:59:17
is it unpopular though, don't we all know that we are wasting money on those boards, like custom cars or PC cases it is dumb but it allows us to express ourselves.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 16 February 2021, 01:01:30
What I think he's saying is that he'd never do it, and it isn't even worth it to express oneself. You might as well stick a bunch of Twilight stickers on your Filco or something.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Tue, 16 February 2021, 01:59:05
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

 :eek:

Give me a filco or hhkb anyday.
Filco's stabilisers suck and the keycaps aren't great.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Tue, 16 February 2021, 02:17:32
What I think he's saying is that he'd never do it, and it isn't even worth it to express oneself. You might as well stick a bunch of Twilight stickers on your Filco or something.

Ehh ive had customs and they just never do much for me.  Like theyre cool in the moment, I really enjoyed the DGE I had, but they inevitably have more problems than OEM keyboards.

Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

 :eek:

Give me a filco or hhkb anyday.
Filco's stabilisers suck and the keycaps aren't great.

Oh they are trash keycaps for sure.  I dont have issues with costar stabs though, takes a lot less to make them not suck compared to cherry stabs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Tue, 16 February 2021, 03:36:09
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

 :eek:

Give me a filco or hhkb anyday.
Filco's stabilisers suck and the keycaps aren't great.

Oh they are trash keycaps for sure.  I dont have issues with costar stabs though, takes a lot less to make them not suck compared to cherry stabs.
Isn't that customisation though?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Tue, 16 February 2021, 04:08:01
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

I fundamentally agree, unless you need/want a weird layout that just isn't available commercially. Compact full sizes or larger than full sizes just aren't very common nor good commercially as far as I know, or left sided num pads.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Tue, 16 February 2021, 04:09:18
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

 :eek:

Give me a filco or hhkb anyday.
Filco's stabilisers suck and the keycaps aren't great.

Oh they are trash keycaps for sure.  I dont have issues with costar stabs though, takes a lot less to make them not suck compared to cherry stabs.
Isn't that customisation though?
I think minor customization on a stock product usually makes more sense than buying designer do it yourself kits that can cost far more. I think it's kinda funny that custom keyboards are almost always just expensive off the shelf components, even soldering isn't necessary anymore. It's like building a computer and saying you're part of the custom computer community.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Tue, 16 February 2021, 07:38:00
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

I fundamentally agree, unless you need/want a weird layout that just isn't available commercially. Compact full sizes or larger than full sizes just aren't very common nor good commercially as far as I know, or left sided num pads.
And switches, don’t forget switches.
A lot of the great switches are not available in most prebuilt keyboards. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nuclear Nachos on Tue, 16 February 2021, 08:29:52
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.
this hobby really isn't focused on being good value :p but you can still get a really nice keyboard for under what most gamer boards are and on par or better than nicer ones like varmilo, leopold, filco for a little more, but when people are paying the extreme r/mm prices on boards rn i agree with you
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Tue, 16 February 2021, 08:36:06
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

I fundamentally agree, unless you need/want a weird layout that just isn't available commercially. Compact full sizes or larger than full sizes just aren't very common nor good commercially as far as I know, or left sided num pads.
And switches, don’t forget switches.
A lot of the great switches are not available in most prebuilt keyboards.
Desolder, swap, solder. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 16 February 2021, 08:56:57
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

I fundamentally agree, unless you need/want a weird layout that just isn't available commercially. Compact full sizes or larger than full sizes just aren't very common nor good commercially as far as I know, or left sided num pads.
And switches, don’t forget switches.
A lot of the great switches are not available in most prebuilt keyboards.
Desolder, swap, solder. Problem solved.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: buryberry on Tue, 16 February 2021, 09:06:18
hipro on hhkb are ugly
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Tue, 16 February 2021, 10:56:42
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

I fundamentally agree, unless you need/want a weird layout that just isn't available commercially. Compact full sizes or larger than full sizes just aren't very common nor good commercially as far as I know, or left sided num pads.
And switches, don’t forget switches.
A lot of the great switches are not available in most prebuilt keyboards.
Desolder, swap, solder. Problem solved.

(Attachment Link)
What's that supposed to mean?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Tue, 16 February 2021, 14:36:34
means put whatever keys you want in prefab board, i think
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 16 February 2021, 14:53:29
means put whatever keys you want in prefab board, i think

I was just illustrating the point. It is fun to swap random modern switches into old (common/undesirable) boards. The "Aristotle" switches in it felt terrible. Most weren't even clicky anymore.
Title: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: -Jerry- on Wed, 17 February 2021, 17:55:18
Thought that keeps popping up:

I don’t understand why artisan collaborations for keycaps sets have nothing to do with the theme but for the colourway. A keycap sculpted to look like a cat or a dog or a bull or whatever in a dozen different colours for different keycap sets doesn’t feel like a collaboration to me, just an excuse to reuse the same molds.

I realise that a lot of work goes into developing  the concept for an artisan and turning it into a usable mold and have nothing against these designers continuing to profit from their work of course - it just baffles me when I see it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 17 February 2021, 18:56:06
Thought that keeps popping up:

I don’t understand why artisan collaborations for keycaps sets have nothing to do with the theme but for the colourway. A keycap sculpted to look like a cat or a dog or a bull or whatever in a dozen different colours for different keycap sets doesn’t feel like a collaboration to me, just an excuse to reuse the same molds.

I realise that a lot of work goes into developing  the concept for an artisan and turning it into a usable mold and have nothing against these designers continuing to profit from their work of course - it just baffles me when I see it.

The majority of artisans are just reused sculpts with different colors though...

I think ultimately the point is to hype up a keyset.  Like im some designer who's making a questionable keyset design, but I have artisan FrankTheTank oboard and making color matched artisans. It makes the set more desirable in that apsect.  At least thats how I see it. 

I dont entirely disagree with your statement though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: micmil on Thu, 18 February 2021, 08:14:22
This may have been covered... but the current trend of "EVERYTHING BLACK BY DEFAULT" is just as bad, if not worse, than "EVERYTHING BEIGE BY DEFAULT" and "EVERYTHING GREY BY DEFAULT." I'm talking about everyday keyboards and computer equipment, not specialist stuff.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Thu, 18 February 2021, 09:44:20
well at least black does not yellow with age, and there are more and more color options nowadays, although often the cheapest option is the black one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 18 February 2021, 10:47:56
This may have been covered... but the current trend of "EVERYTHING BLACK BY DEFAULT" is just as bad, if not worse, than "EVERYTHING BEIGE BY DEFAULT" and "EVERYTHING GREY BY DEFAULT." I'm talking about everyday keyboards and computer equipment, not specialist stuff.

I used to hate ye olde computer equipment being all beige, before I became interested in vintage keyboards (this came before any cursory interest in vintage computers). It has grown on me. Now I think of it as a fun novelty, if nothing else, to have some bizarre old beige slab on my desk for people to be confused by. I can especially appreciate the aesthetics of an "industrial gray" keyboard with pearl and pebble caps now.

The interesting thing to me is how long this trend of all black has gone on. There was a small period of time, in the early 2000s, where silver (or silver and black) was the cool thing. Previously the beige craze seemed to be started by IBM at the close of the 70s (though there was still some variation in the 80s).

Personally, I don't mind. As Henry Ford once said, "Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black." I quite like black, so that works for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: micmil on Thu, 18 February 2021, 11:29:29

I used to hate ye olde computer equipment being all beige, before I became interested in vintage keyboards (this came before any cursory interest in vintage computers). It has grown on me. Now I think of it as a fun novelty, if nothing else, to have some bizarre old beige slab on my desk for people to be confused by. I can especially appreciate the aesthetics of an "industrial gray" keyboard with pearl and pebble caps now.

The interesting thing to me is how long this trend of all black has gone on. There was a small period of time, in the early 2000s, where silver (or silver and black) was the cool thing. Previously the beige craze seemed to be started by IBM at the close of the 70s (though there was still some variation in the 80s).

Personally, I don't mind. As Henry Ford once said, "Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black." I quite like black, so that works for me.

But see, industrial grey isn't boring. It's the best, and I will fistfight anyone that disagrees. I mean, I WON'T but I'll say I will on the internet and that's just as good right? :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andred on Fri, 19 February 2021, 17:19:20
I cringe when I see number pads with a 1u 0 under the 2, as seen in most 1800s, 96%, and some other compact 100%-ish layouts.

[attach=1][attach=2]
(Cherry G80-1800 and Keychron K4)

I have to think that people who like those layouts do not actually use the 10-key correctly. The 0 key is for the thumb! When 0 is a 1u under the 2, you are forced to use your middle finger or else shift your wrist in order to use your thumb. I suppose you could reach it with your thumb without moving your hand, but you would have to contort your thumb to do it because there is usually an arrow key in the way. Whichever way you do it, hitting a 1u under the 2 is either slow or not ergonomic.

I am fine with layouts where there is a 1u 0 under the 1 and a 1u 00 under the 2. It's not my preference, but for the special case of accounting data entry, the 00 key under the 2 can improve efficiency despite the aforementioned difficulties.

I do like compact full-size boards, but I believe a 1u 0 under the 2 is the wrong compromise to make. For me, the ideal compact full-size layout would be more like a 75% with a normal number pad added on so that the right arrow does not encroach on the numpad 0. The DriftMechanics Austin layout is a good example, and even more compact layouts are possible.

For comparison, behold the beauty of this Sharp 10-key calculator and its wide well-positioned 0 key:
[attach=3]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Mon, 22 February 2021, 10:39:43
People not using keyboard functions the way they were intended is a rabbithole down which we probably shouldn't go, or we'll be lost forever.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 22 February 2021, 16:03:08
This may have been covered... but the current trend of "EVERYTHING BLACK BY DEFAULT" is just as bad, if not worse, than "EVERYTHING BEIGE BY DEFAULT" and "EVERYTHING GREY BY DEFAULT." I'm talking about everyday keyboards and computer equipment, not specialist stuff.
I used to hate ye olde computer equipment being all beige

If they bring BACK beige, it won't be cool anymore,  and people will move back to black and silver again.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Mon, 22 February 2021, 16:16:33
Personally, I have a bit of a pet peeve for anyone who insists that there's no way a mechanical board could feel that much better than a membrane! After all, why would people have moved away from them otherwise?

Edit: I just realized this is likely only unpopular to me because I grew up in the most hillbilly part of Kentucky possible, and barely anyone there is even into tech, let alone the niche of mechanical keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: buryberry on Mon, 22 February 2021, 16:23:04
i remember when sgi machines came in cool colors, but the keyboards rarely matched
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 23 February 2021, 08:27:28
This may have been covered... but the current trend of "EVERYTHING BLACK BY DEFAULT" is just as bad, if not worse, than "EVERYTHING BEIGE BY DEFAULT" and "EVERYTHING GREY BY DEFAULT." I'm talking about everyday keyboards and computer equipment, not specialist stuff.
I used to hate ye olde computer equipment being all beige

If they bring BACK beige, it won't be cool anymore,  and people will move back to black and silver again.


I guess that may be the case for some. I like black and beige (in the right situation). Black never goes out of style. I still have some of those old black and silver cases and have swapped a (more) modern board into at least one, although that was mostly just because I had it around.

Personally, I have a bit of a pet peeve for anyone who insists that there's no way a mechanical board could feel that much better than a membrane! After all, why would people have moved away from them otherwise?

Edit: I just realized this is likely only unpopular to me because I grew up in the most hillbilly part of Kentucky possible, and barely anyone there is even into tech, let alone the niche of mechanical keyboards.

I don't think I have handed anybody a clicky keyboard that hasn't loved typing on it. My coworker that's in his 70s seems more enthused with the RGB LEDs than anything else about the board I gave them for Christmas though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 23 February 2021, 09:02:37
I had a girlfriend who preferred the short travel of her Apple keyboard because she's a moron.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Tue, 23 February 2021, 10:12:40
I don't think I have handed anybody a clicky keyboard that hasn't loved typing on it. My coworker that's in his 70s seems more enthused with the RGB LEDs than anything else about the board I gave them for Christmas though.

For context of my first post, this is when trying to convince people back where I grew up in eastern KY that mechs are worth the price tag. Their universal reaction was always "it's just the keyboard why does it matter" or some variation of what I mentioned in my first post.

Then again, to most of them, Apple was the pinnacle of high end computing, because if it's not customizable and is relatively hard to get in that area, that must mean it's the best of the best and nothing can top it. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 23 February 2021, 10:50:58
I had a girlfriend who preferred the short travel of her Apple keyboard because she's a moron.

I used to like scissor switches ... before I knew anything. I can't say I could try a Model M, or similar, and say the same.

I don't think I have handed anybody a clicky keyboard that hasn't loved typing on it. My coworker that's in his 70s seems more enthused with the RGB LEDs than anything else about the board I gave them for Christmas though.

For context of my first post, this is when trying to convince people back where I grew up in eastern KY that mechs are worth the price tag. Their universal reaction was always "it's just the keyboard why does it matter" or some variation of what I mentioned in my first post.

Then again, to most of them, Apple was the pinnacle of high end computing, because if it's not customizable and is relatively hard to get in that area, that must mean it's the best of the best and nothing can top it. :rolleyes:

That must have been before you could get a board full of Outemu blues for $30?

I think the Apple thing is universal, unfortunately. Cook's blunderings are helping to change that though. Jobs could sell you a paper bag full of dog crap (and often did). Cook, not so much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Tue, 23 February 2021, 11:50:01
I had a girlfriend who preferred the short travel of her Apple keyboard because she's a moron.

I used to like scissor switches ... before I knew anything. I can't say I could try a Model M, or similar, and say the same.

I don't think I have handed anybody a clicky keyboard that hasn't loved typing on it. My coworker that's in his 70s seems more enthused with the RGB LEDs than anything else about the board I gave them for Christmas though.

For context of my first post, this is when trying to convince people back where I grew up in eastern KY that mechs are worth the price tag. Their universal reaction was always "it's just the keyboard why does it matter" or some variation of what I mentioned in my first post.

Then again, to most of them, Apple was the pinnacle of high end computing, because if it's not customizable and is relatively hard to get in that area, that must mean it's the best of the best and nothing can top it. :rolleyes:

That must have been before you could get a board full of Outemu blues for $30?

I think the Apple thing is universal, unfortunately. Cook's blunderings are helping to change that though. Jobs could sell you a paper bag full of dog crap (and often did). Cook, not so much.

This was around the mid-late 2010s that I was in middle and high school. Graduated 2018. People there still thought that sort of thing because it was full of the most non-tech savvy people you could ever meet in your life. Some of my classmates could make an elderly person born in 1940 seem like a tech master.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Tue, 23 February 2021, 12:08:15
I had a girlfriend who preferred the short travel of her Apple keyboard because she's a moron.

Is moron a synonym for unenlightened?  :D

There was a dark period in my past when I actually liked these keebs. I did a lot of # input and needed the 10-key. I also 'liked' the very short throw chiclet keys. I would smash away for maximum bottom-out for hour after hour. One day a co-worker showed up with a mech board and I was intrigued. Life moved on and I no longer create 3000+ row spreadsheets. I have a small collection of 60s and 65s with different switches and different plates. Still haven't embraced linears but I've kind of settled in on light clickies at this point after several years on (much) heavier tactiles. And loud can be really satisfying but there's definitely a place in my life for silents.

(https://cdn2.expertreviews.co.uk/sites/expertreviews/files/styles/er_main_wide/public/4/89//apple_1_0.jpg?itok=po2Sld5o)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 23 February 2021, 12:17:43
I think you'll find that that's the majority of people in virtually every community feel that way.

Even I feel that way. I've spent thousands on keyboards this year, and are any of them worth anything beyond the free keyboards that come with the computers? Not really. The people who aren't into keyboards are the smart ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 23 February 2021, 12:36:06
Tp4 also likes the lenovo laptop scissors.  If they made an ERGODOX out of that, Tp4 would get a set.

Mx-Buru is more fun to type on but scissors are faster easier to time for speed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 23 February 2021, 12:39:39
ERGODOX out of scissor switches

(http://i.makeagif.com/media/8-27-2014/4YMgGH.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 23 February 2021, 12:42:38
ERGODOX out of scissor switches

Show Image
(http://i.makeagif.com/media/8-27-2014/4YMgGH.gif)


(https://i.imgur.com/KJAc0O4.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 23 February 2021, 16:21:40
I had a girlfriend who preferred the short travel of her Apple keyboard because she's a moron.

My ex-wife is a magazine editor and has been typing thousands of words per day since the 1980s. She has been a devoted Apple cult member for the last 2/3 of that period and specifically now likes the shortest possible travel because she believes that it makes her life easier. Unlike those of us who poke and stab, her fingers float over the keys and dip down with a feather's touch.

Although my personal preference is the opposite, there is no way to disparage hers. I am a firm believer in empirical evidence and her production totals dwarf mine, therefore her opinions and preferences are indisputably valid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: micmil on Tue, 23 February 2021, 19:19:13
Short throw means less effort means faster typing. For me, anyway. I think the De Quervain's has something to do with that too.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 23 February 2021, 19:23:41
I had a girlfriend who preferred the short travel of her Apple keyboard because she's a moron.

My ex-wife is a magazine editor and has been typing thousands of words per day since the 1980s. She has been a devoted Apple cult member for the last 2/3 of that period and specifically now likes the shortest possible travel because she believes that it makes her life easier. Unlike those of us who poke and stab, her fingers float over the keys and dip down with a feather's touch.

Although my personal preference is the opposite, there is no way to disparage hers. I am a firm believer in empirical evidence and her production totals dwarf mine, therefore her opinions and preferences are indisputably valid.

My wife disliked all my mech boards enough to go out and buy a couple of Dell membrane boards, the ones that come free with their PCs. Too much travel, she says. Too noisy for conference calls. I want a number pad.

She types a lot faster than me, so who am I to argue.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 23 February 2021, 19:50:44
I actually agree. Cherry 4mm feels like it has too much travel. It feels like it needs more space to operate than it should, and that you have to depress the key farther than you should.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Tue, 23 February 2021, 21:31:39
Some of my best boards have been short travel the old school Thinkpad keyboards, either on actual Thinkpads, or as standalone USB keyboards. The short travel was good, the mechanism felt great.

Unfortunately, there is nothing like them these days and the longevity of the USB keyboards was limited, probably because they were so flexy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Wed, 24 February 2021, 10:01:13
Too many people are treating group buys like preordering, and go into them blindly without expecting that they can ever go wrong. Years before I joined GH I used to see horror stories all the time of GB runners disappearing or kits falling off of shipping barges or whatever. Now whenever I see a GB made by a guy with a new account with renders but no prototype, or a keyset with a ton of crazy colors that'll probably take ages to match, I get shook. There's probably gonna be a lot of backlash and drama in the hobby this year.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Wed, 24 February 2021, 12:07:16
Too many people are treating group buys like preordering, and go into them blindly without expecting that they can ever go wrong. Years before I joined GH I used to see horror stories all the time of GB runners disappearing or kits falling off of shipping barges or whatever. Now whenever I see a GB made by a guy with a new account with renders but no prototype, or a keyset with a ton of crazy colors that'll probably take ages to match, I get shook. There's probably gonna be a lot of backlash and drama in the hobby this year.

Seconded. Honestly, even as a newer person to this hobby, I know enough about GBs not to go into them blindly. It's more like video game Kickstarter than it is a video game pre-order, to make a comparison. You offer money, you hope it gets made and produced, and if the person's reputable, it more than likely will be. If they aren't, or they run out of funds, or some other major complication, there goes your hundreds of dollars you just spent on a keyboard or keyboard part. Sucks to be you I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And I also agree on the second part there. With how many people are new to the hobby, and are treating every GB like a pre-order for a product that's 100% going to be made, there's going to be a whole lot of disappointment, disillusion, and dissatisfaction in the upcoming months and years as all of these people who think GBs are glorified pre-orders get screwed over by unfulfilled GB promises because they didn't do their homework.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 24 February 2021, 19:38:44
Group buys are really puzzling. For boards, it seems close to certain that there will be massive delays, and highly likely that there will be huge amounts of drama.

Expected value of an item is price with a probability adjustment... personally, I add a 50% factor for the likelihood of non-delivery or drama, which boosts most group buys into unreasonable territory. A $300 case (which is already at the low end) now becomes $450. For a rare layout, this is a hard enough sell. But many of these group buys are for the pretties rather than a unique function.

It also seems rare for anyone to ask basic due diligence questions about the organiser's background. What their past buys have been, how those buys have gone, what their experience is with manufacturing. Even Kickstarter campaigns usually have a short blurb about the experience of people behind the project.

This isn't just 'new people to the hobby' either, it seems like there are repeat participants, or at least participants who have been in the hobby for years.

I just don't get it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 25 February 2021, 05:25:54
Yup, peeps don't understand that random dudes on internet forum =/= Amazon.com

They're more like shady pop-up sites that offer you a free insurance quote.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DannyDP on Thu, 25 February 2021, 07:23:42
If you are concerned with the price of switches rather than their performance then you should not be in this hobby.

90% of artisans are ugly as hell and ruin the look of a keyboard. Some artisans though can enhance the look tremendously but its a rare thing for me.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 25 February 2021, 08:28:20
what performance though ? and how much -MORE/LESS- of it,  can we derive a valid a price difference.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Thu, 25 February 2021, 08:43:41
**** man who knows

But I agree to the extent of custom keyboards. If you're not doing custom keyboards and you're buying one off the shelf, price should be the #1 consideration since all the switches are basically the same.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Thu, 25 February 2021, 10:00:01
totally agree about artisans. there are a few where i really appreciate the artistry but even then i don't want them on my keeb. first ones i'm seriously considering are the rama cherry caps in Red Alert coming out in march.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Thu, 25 February 2021, 10:11:39
I don't want none of that ****. I want the symbols on the keyboard and that's it. If I wanted a fishbowl on my desk I'd put a fishbowl on my desk.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Thu, 25 February 2021, 10:57:21
Honestly, while I initially agreed with some of you about artisans, I think that if they're done well and done tastefully they're alright. The prices always seem a little higher than I would pay for that sort of thing though. I know that it's the difference between a mass-produced item and a hand crafted item, like the difference between a MTG Ultra Pro deck box and a deck box crafted by Aaron Cain (guy who makes really high quality wooden deck box designs for those of you that aren't into MTG), but if I'm spending that much on a single key, it needs to be worth it for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 25 February 2021, 11:50:51
Honestly, while I initially agreed with some of you about artisans, I think that if they're done well and done tastefully they're alright.

I find them all distasteful, but that's also a matter of taste.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Thu, 25 February 2021, 11:56:44
Honestly, while I initially agreed with some of you about artisans, I think that if they're done well and done tastefully they're alright.

I find them all distasteful, but that's also a matter of taste.

When I say tastefully, I mean if you get a keycap set and an artisan that matches the color scheme and theming of the keycaps, like a set with a novelty spacebar that's a nice blue with images of koi on it, then getting an artisan ESC key with the same color and actual koi models in it, that could work rather well and look nice. At the end of the day, I see artisans as the keyboard equivalent of a project car - it looks nice, and it certainly does its desired function, but it's on the expensive side for what it is and not everyone is interested in them or wants one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Thu, 25 February 2021, 12:15:59
An artisan that really matches a set+board is a magical thing, but it's hard to come by. What I've been doing it buying artisans+novelties and putting them on stuff that really clicks. (Which so far is only one board.  :rolleyes:)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 25 February 2021, 12:32:12
Honestly, while I initially agreed with some of you about artisans, I think that if they're done well and done tastefully they're alright.

I find them all distasteful, but that's also a matter of taste.

When I say tastefully, I mean if you get a keycap set and an artisan that matches the color scheme and theming of the keycaps, like a set with a novelty spacebar that's a nice blue with images of koi on it, then getting an artisan ESC key with the same color and actual koi models in it, that could work rather well and look nice. At the end of the day, I see artisans as the keyboard equivalent of a project car - it looks nice, and it certainly does its desired function, but it's on the expensive side for what it is and not everyone is interested in them or wants one.

That's reasonable. I don't like that either though. All a matter of taste.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Thu, 25 February 2021, 21:12:49
Does anyone use artisan keycaps on their work keyboards?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Thu, 25 February 2021, 21:25:43
Does anyone use artisan keycaps on their work keyboards?
well, if it a metal artisan from RAMA, i don't mind using it on work board lol

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Thu, 25 February 2021, 22:27:23
begs the question: is rama a novelty or an artisan?

Does anyone use artisan keycaps on their work keyboards?
well, if it a metal artisan from RAMA, i don't mind using it on work board lol

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 27 February 2021, 06:45:31
Typing is more important than handwriting by a factor of 1,000,000,000
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AJM on Sat, 27 February 2021, 08:21:56
For comparison, behold the beauty of this Sharp 10-key calculator and its wide well-positioned 0 key:
(Attachment Link)
And because of that you will probably agree with me, that the IBM Model F XT has the best layout ever and is certainly not "weird", how many ignorant people call it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Sat, 27 February 2021, 08:47:46
begs the question: is rama a novelty or an artisan?

Does anyone use artisan keycaps on their work keyboards?
well, if it a metal artisan from RAMA, i don't mind using it on work board lol

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
well, they claimed it's an artisan, so...
https://drop.com/buy/rama-works-x-nautilus-nightmares-artisan-keycap

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 01 March 2021, 02:40:59
Typing is more important than handwriting by a factor of 1,000,000,000
i do agree, and not only because i can't write to save my life :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 01 March 2021, 08:41:15

well, they claimed it's an artisan, so...
https://drop.com/buy/rama-works-x-nautilus-nightmares-artisan-keycap


I am not into that sort of stuff, but I like that one!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Tue, 02 March 2021, 09:32:27
Typing is more important than handwriting by a factor of 1,000,000,000
i do agree, and not only because i can't write to save my life :)

I can write well (it's not the nicest to look at but it's still very legible), but I can definitely confirm that typing skill has a larger impact on your life than writing skill.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: achikin on Tue, 02 March 2021, 16:46:36
I have tried: Ergodox, X-Bows, Planck, and a bunch of more conventional mechanical keyboards over the course of ten years. I do realize that most of the following has already come up in this 100-page topic, but I think it's a good place to dump my unpopular kbd concerns.

1. Mechanical switches have nothing to do with ergonomics. They are bulky, they are high and they have too much travel. The only reason they are connected to ergonomics is that this is the only type of switch you can use for DIY.

2. Ortholinear is overrated.

3. Most of the claims about keyboards' ergonomics are false.

4. Thumb clusters are not comfortable. Yes, your thumb is the biggest, the strongest, and the most agile finger, but it is an opposite finger and it is not supposed for side movements.

5. The best keyboard you can buy is Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop - split, wireless, low-profile, short spacebar, big modifiers, embedded wrist rest, tented and negative tilted out of the box. Costs around 80$-100$. Considered bad in the community because "it's not mechanical and ortholinear haha".

6. 60%, 40%, moving common symbols to layers is not worth it. Pressing several function buttons instead of stretching your hand a bit is less comfortable and ergonomic. "Do leave your home row" does not make sense - what's wrong with moving your hands a little bit?

7. Many people judge keyboards by typing speed, but how many of them HAVE to type that fast? Same for different layouts and measuring "finger travel distance" - are you traveling that much?

8. Wrist rests, comfortable hand position, ease of pressing hotkeys - is much more valuable but is omitted by most of the keyboard makers.

9. Switches. There are hundreds of them, all different, you should lube and change springs and still, a lot of people are not very happy with their choice and looking for something better. Does not that mean that all of them are bad by design? Have you ever heard about someone whining about his forks and buying more and more different forks to find "the right one"?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Tue, 02 March 2021, 17:49:57
I hold the (apparently) unpopular opinion that handwriting is superior to typing. I suppose it depends on why you need to transcribe and archive information. As a father I have watched my children learn and grow. Hand writing unquestionably leads to greater retention of new concepts. But don't just take my word for it:

Quote
"When people type their notes, they have this tendency to try to take verbatim notes and write down as much of the lecture as they can," Mueller tells NPR's Rachel Martin (https://www.npr.org/2016/04/17/474525392/attention-students-put-your-laptops-away). "The students who were taking longhand notes in our studies were forced to be more selective — because you can't write as fast as you can type. And that extra processing of the material that they were doing benefited them."

Quote
If you learn well typing, you absolutely should! The overlaps between the [typists vs. writers] was large for almost every metric studied. The performance of the student mattered more than how they took notes. Therefore, we recommend that students should stick with what they do best. But, if you're on the fence, consider writing. It's low tech, it can be ugly for those with terrible handwriting, and it's pretty slow. But, in the end, you may just end up learning more (https://www.clearvuehealth.com/writingtyping/).

Quote
The research by Mueller and Oppenheimer serves as a reminder, however, that even when technology allows us to do more in less time, it does not always foster learning.  Learning involves more than the receipt and the regurgitation of information (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret-don-t-take-notes-with-a-laptop/).

Quote
Writing notes by hand generally improves your understanding of the material and helps you remember it better, since writing it down involves deeper cognitive-processing of the material than typing it... Despite the fact that typing notes on a computer doesn’t promote as much cognitive processing of the material, typing notes and writing them by hand are both valid note-taking methods, and each can be preferable in different situations, as they both have their advantages and disadvantages (https://effectiviology.com/handwriting-vs-typing-how-to-take-notes/).

In a similar vein, a couple of other parents and I convinced our kids' school to drop iPads. They are great for consuming information but much less effective as a creative tool. But this is an unpopular opinion for another time.


Typing is more important than handwriting by a factor of 1,000,000,000
i do agree, and not only because i can't write to save my life :)

I can write well (it's not the nicest to look at but it's still very legible), but I can definitely confirm that typing skill has a larger impact on your life than writing skill.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 02 March 2021, 18:49:21
Someone that does not type cannot survive in this digital era.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Tue, 02 March 2021, 20:23:17
Someone that does not type cannot survive in this digital era.

I encourage you to think more broadly. For some, digital is a death sentence. COVID is only making this worse as social links are broken. Teen depression and suicide rates are climbing beyond comprehension. We are losing an entire generation. (Not saying typing is the reason, but digital survival might not mean what you think it does.)

For too many kids and young adults, this is not the way (https://www.meganmeierfoundation.org/statistics).


Cyber Bullying

Approximately 34% of students report experiencing cyberbullying during their lifetime (Hinduja & Patchin, 2015)

Over 60% of students who experience cyberbullying reported that it immensely impacted their ability to learn and feel safe while at school (Hinduja, 2018)

59% of U.S. teens have been bullied or harassed online, and over 90% believe it's a major problem for people their age (Pew Research Center, 2018)


Self-Harm

Targets of cyberbullying are at a greater risk than others of both self-harm and suicidal behaviors (John et al., 2018)

Approximately 18% of youth report self-harming at least once, impacting 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 10 boys (Monto, McRee, & Deryck, 2018)

About 6% of students have digitally self-harmed, or anonymously posted online or shared hurtful content about oneself  (Patchin & Hinduja, 2017)


Suicide

Students who experienced bullying or cyberbullying are nearly 2 times more likely to attempt suicide (Hinduja & Patchin, 2018)

Current research suggests that suicide ideation and attempts among adolescents have nearly doubled since 2008 (Plemmons et al., 2018), making suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death for individuals 10-34 years of age (CDC, 2017)

Approximately 1 in 20 adolescents experience a suicide in single year (Andriessen, Dudley, Draper, & Mitchell, 2018)


Quote
TL/DR: none of the above sources reflect the impact of COVID restrictions. Read about teen disengagement here (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/10/01/teen-disengagement-is-on-the-rise/). Also, read here (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/12/23/students-failing-grades-online-class-coronavirus/3967886001/) about "scores of students are getting F's: what's the point of failing them during COVID-19?" They may need to type to be in the work force, but first they have to get through school.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Wed, 03 March 2021, 01:53:45
Cyber Bullying
Approximately 34% of students report experiencing cyberbullying during their lifetime (Hinduja & Patchin, 2015)
Over 60% of students who experience cyberbullying reported that it immensely impacted their ability to learn and feel safe while at school (Hinduja, 2018)
59% of U.S. teens have been bullied or harassed online, and over 90% believe it's a major problem for people their age (Pew Research Center, 2018)
i am pretty sure proper bullying ain't better be it as numbers or for mental health... not that i know for experience or anything that 2nd part but i was in France were bulling can carry a prison sentence, not in the US were bulling is the social norm... i am sorry but bullies will be bullies online or offline, just need to tighten on them, if they end up serving either social service or prison sentence they may start to think twice about bullying the next guy... and some on the internet will tell you that saying hi and how are you to a woman on the street is rape, so what is bullying to them...
and none of that has anything to do in this thread...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 03 March 2021, 05:31:04
Cyber Bullying
Approximately 34% of students report experiencing cyberbullying during their lifetime (Hinduja & Patchin, 2015)
Over 60% of students who experience cyberbullying reported that it immensely impacted their ability to learn and feel safe while at school (Hinduja, 2018)
59% of U.S. teens have been bullied or harassed online, and over 90% believe it's a major problem for people their age (Pew Research Center, 2018)
i am pretty sure proper bullying ain't better be it as numbers or for mental health... not that i know for experience or anything that 2nd part but i was in France were bulling can carry a prison sentence, not in the US were bulling is the social norm... i am sorry but bullies will be bullies online or offline, just need to tighten on them, if they end up serving either social service or prison sentence they may start to think twice about bullying the next guy... and some on the internet will tell you that saying hi and how are you to a woman on the street is rape, so what is bullying to them...
and none of that has anything to do in this thread...

The internet may well magnify the total Bully-ing Bandwidth that a young person is exposed to.

But overall, we're very much into the Behavioral Sink phase of societal decay.  It's to be expected that a huge percentage of hughmahns become rabid.

This is primarily a failure of THE STATE to inspire the younger generation w/ meaningful social goals.

What we're acting out as of current is the END GAME of CAPITALISM.   This is our natural conclusion.  As long as we continue to model VALUE in the current form (Hedonic Output),  Equal unhappiness will be generated w/ happiness.   This is the default Modulation of the hedonic loop in every thinking being.

It's not possible to cut off the internet, or prevent its uptake/ use.  That's like cutting off the hand to fix a broken finger. Or gastic bypass, etc.   It won't work, as it's only symptom relief without addressing the CAUSE.

We have to change our Value system. Not Stop-Typing.

To Think that you can improve people's lives by taking them off the internet is in itself myopic. They'll just find ways to be unhappy elsewhere, the underlying broken value system is pervasive in every arena of life.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 March 2021, 08:17:48

This is primarily a failure of THE STATE to inspire the younger generation w/ meaningful social goals.

What we're acting out as of current is the END GAME of CAPITALISM.


I generally agree with this. As a "child of the 1960s" aka "the Space Age" I consider myself extremely fortunate to be among the last to grow up with a great education and optimistic aspirations for the future.
 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Wed, 03 March 2021, 10:01:21

The internet may well magnify the total Bully-ing Bandwidth that a young person is exposed to.

But overall, we're very much into the Behavioral Sink phase of societal decay.  It's to be expected that a huge percentage of hughmahns become rabid.

This is primarily a failure of THE STATE to inspire the younger generation w/ meaningful social goals.

What we're acting out as of current is the END GAME of CAPITALISM.   This is our natural conclusion.  As long as we continue to model VALUE in the current form (Hedonic Output),  Equal unhappiness will be generated w/ happiness.   This is the default Modulation of the hedonic loop in every thinking being.

It's not possible to cut off the internet, or prevent its uptake/ use.  That's like cutting off the hand to fix a broken finger. Or gastic bypass, etc.   It won't work, as it's only symptom relief without addressing the CAUSE.

We have to change our Value system. Not Stop-Typing.

To Think that you can improve people's lives by taking them off the internet is in itself myopic. They'll just find ways to be unhappy elsewhere, the underlying broken value system is pervasive in every arena of life.



As someone born in 2000, yeah, this is actually pretty accurate. Essentially born waiting for the endgame of capitalism, where there's no social mobility and the rich just keep profiting off of suffering and misery. Turning off the internet wouldn't help with the issues I faced then or the ones I face now, it would honestly magnify them and make it harder for me to talk to most of my friends or to play the games that help me escape from this damn nightmare for a bit. Previous generations had some sort of goal. The best people my age and younger have is "Survive, maybe live ok and have not-as-horrible mental health for a bit." I'm watching the end of my planet in slow motion, and there's nothing I can do to stop it because the capitalist system has intensely rewarded the rich *******s profiting off of the destruction of our home, and when there's a even a hint of the government doing something about it they vomit money at the problem until it goes away and gives them tax cuts.

So, yeah, I'd rather type well than write well, because that's my main form of communication with my friends. If I didn't have that I'd be even more isolated. Getting rid of the internet wouldn't solve any problems at this point, just make them worse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Wed, 03 March 2021, 18:40:06
I have tried: Ergodox, X-Bows, Planck, and a bunch of more conventional mechanical keyboards over the course of ten years. I do realize that most of the following has already come up in this 100-page topic, but I think it's a good place to dump my unpopular kbd concerns.

1. Mechanical switches have nothing to do with ergonomics. They are bulky, they are high and they have too much travel. The only reason they are connected to ergonomics is that this is the only type of switch you can use for DIY.

2. Ortholinear is overrated.

3. Most of the claims about keyboards' ergonomics are false.

4. Thumb clusters are not comfortable. Yes, your thumb is the biggest, the strongest, and the most agile finger, but it is an opposite finger and it is not supposed for side movements.

5. The best keyboard you can buy is Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop - split, wireless, low-profile, short spacebar, big modifiers, embedded wrist rest, tented and negative tilted out of the box. Costs around 80$-100$. Considered bad in the community because "it's not mechanical and ortholinear haha".

6. 60%, 40%, moving common symbols to layers is not worth it. Pressing several function buttons instead of stretching your hand a bit is less comfortable and ergonomic. "Do leave your home row" does not make sense - what's wrong with moving your hands a little bit?

7. Many people judge keyboards by typing speed, but how many of them HAVE to type that fast? Same for different layouts and measuring "finger travel distance" - are you traveling that much?

8. Wrist rests, comfortable hand position, ease of pressing hotkeys - is much more valuable but is omitted by most of the keyboard makers.

9. Switches. There are hundreds of them, all different, you should lube and change springs and still, a lot of people are not very happy with their choice and looking for something better. Does not that mean that all of them are bad by design? Have you ever heard about someone whining about his forks and buying more and more different forks to find "the right one"?
The WPM thing is such a weird thing, people already have enough recolors and 100k GB of keyboards and keycaps that they probably need a new way to measure contest...
It also doesn't show much, a WPM test is not a real representation of how you really type, also who cares? do all of them actually write that much?..

I dont agree about the switches though, you don't whine on your fork not good enough becuase you probably don't care..  all the recolors are boring but there are differences between switches, for example Kailh clickbar switches are different, they have different spring weight and clickbar thickness which greatly affects sound and feel between them.

If you do have to lube/film your switch in order to make it feel good then it's definitly bad by design, there's no exuce for a manufacture to make switches with loose housing or pingy leaf and charge more than $0.25 per switch IMO.

BTW 60% is for people who dont use the rest of the keyboard much, I presonally rearly use F keys/numpad and the keys above the arrow keys almost never used except Delete, sure a full size keyboard is always better and using something like 40% with the 'never leave home-row' is a weird concept to me, but full size takes the space of the mouse for me, so it's either having smaller keyboard or typing weird.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 04 March 2021, 14:04:45

WPM is just a convenient measure of comfort and efficiency, at least over short periods of time.  (Though back when I took keyboarding in high school on the Mighty IBM Selectric it was also essential to getting a good grade, by showing that you had actually learned and practiced.)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Thu, 04 March 2021, 14:27:00

WPM is just a convenient measure of comfort and efficiency, at least over short periods of time.  (Though back when I took keyboarding in high school on the Mighty IBM Selectric it was also essential to getting a good grade, by showing that you had actually learned and practiced.)

I mean, depending on your job, WPM is also a measure of effectiveness at said job. Working at a call center where you have to enter call notes and details quickly, data entry work where you are constantly typing, and courtroom stenography, to name a few. WPM is a useful barometer, but not a tell-all statistic; everyone's will be different, and the highest WPM possible for people is not necessarily achieved by the most comfortable setups. After all, a stenotype keyboard doesn't exactly look that comfortable. Looks rather cramped, to me, but they get some of the highest WPMs out there, so it's certainly efficient and effective.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 04 March 2021, 19:03:33
You're not really MODERN until you've achieved 120wpm.

It's a basic skill.


(https://i.imgur.com/KJAc0O4.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Sat, 06 March 2021, 14:30:35
For comparison, behold the beauty of this Sharp 10-key calculator and its wide well-positioned 0 key:
(Attachment Link)
And because of that you will probably agree with me, that the IBM Model F XT has the best layout ever and is certainly not "weird", how many ignorant people call it.

This is 100% true and I agree with you completely. Let's be best friends.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 06 March 2021, 15:12:14
Someone that does not type cannot survive in this digital era.

I encourage you to think more broadly. For some, digital is a death sentence. COVID is only making this worse as social links are broken. Teen depression and suicide rates are climbing beyond comprehension. We are losing an entire generation. (Not saying typing is the reason, but digital survival might not mean what you think it does.)

For too many kids and young adults, this is not the way (https://www.meganmeierfoundation.org/statistics).


Cyber Bullying

Approximately 34% of students report experiencing cyberbullying during their lifetime (Hinduja & Patchin, 2015)

Over 60% of students who experience cyberbullying reported that it immensely impacted their ability to learn and feel safe while at school (Hinduja, 2018)

59% of U.S. teens have been bullied or harassed online, and over 90% believe it's a major problem for people their age (Pew Research Center, 2018)


Self-Harm

Targets of cyberbullying are at a greater risk than others of both self-harm and suicidal behaviors (John et al., 2018)

Approximately 18% of youth report self-harming at least once, impacting 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 10 boys (Monto, McRee, & Deryck, 2018)

About 6% of students have digitally self-harmed, or anonymously posted online or shared hurtful content about oneself  (Patchin & Hinduja, 2017)


Suicide

Students who experienced bullying or cyberbullying are nearly 2 times more likely to attempt suicide (Hinduja & Patchin, 2018)

Current research suggests that suicide ideation and attempts among adolescents have nearly doubled since 2008 (Plemmons et al., 2018), making suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death for individuals 10-34 years of age (CDC, 2017)

Approximately 1 in 20 adolescents experience a suicide in single year (Andriessen, Dudley, Draper, & Mitchell, 2018)


Quote
TL/DR: none of the above sources reflect the impact of COVID restrictions. Read about teen disengagement here (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/10/01/teen-disengagement-is-on-the-rise/). Also, read here (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/12/23/students-failing-grades-online-class-coronavirus/3967886001/) about "scores of students are getting F's: what's the point of failing them during COVID-19?" They may need to type to be in the work force, but first they have to get through school.


I agree that computer-mediated communications are not natural to people; however, it is a given fact of our time. I may be well above the average age for this forum; however, the best thing the happened to me was that I was forced to join the typewriting class at the high-school, due to all the other workshops—men's—well full. What I stated is not something I am comfortable with, but to type is just a requirement for many jobs, no matter if we like it or not. On the other hand I love real books, but sometimes getting the physical version is just not possible, so I am forced to get the so-called "digital" version.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andred on Sat, 06 March 2021, 18:27:31
For comparison, behold the beauty of this Sharp 10-key calculator and its wide well-positioned 0 key:
(Attachment Link)
And because of that you will probably agree with me, that the IBM Model F XT has the best layout ever and is certainly not "weird", how many ignorant people call it.

This is 100% true and I agree with you completely. Let's be best friends.

Isn't she a beaut! So many steps it looks like a castle!
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: N8N on Sat, 06 March 2021, 19:06:29
As someone born in 2000, yeah, this is actually pretty accurate. Essentially born waiting for the endgame of capitalism, where there's no social mobility and the rich just keep profiting off of suffering and misery. Turning off the internet wouldn't help with the issues I faced then or the ones I face now, it would honestly magnify them and make it harder for me to talk to most of my friends or to play the games that help me escape from this damn nightmare for a bit. Previous generations had some sort of goal. The best people my age and younger have is "Survive, maybe live ok and have not-as-horrible mental health for a bit." I'm watching the end of my planet in slow motion, and there's nothing I can do to stop it because the capitalist system has intensely rewarded the rich *******s profiting off of the destruction of our home, and when there's a even a hint of the government doing something about it they vomit money at the problem until it goes away and gives them tax cuts.

So, yeah, I'd rather type well than write well, because that's my main form of communication with my friends. If I didn't have that I'd be even more isolated. Getting rid of the internet wouldn't solve any problems at this point, just make them worse.

So you don't even remember life before Reaganomics.  (don't feel bad, I don't really, either - I was only 6 at the time.)

Also, I was graduated from college and in the workforce before you were born.  I feel really (redacted) old now.

It does make me feel a little hope for the future that at least a few of your generation can so succinctly put your finger on a few of the major problems with our society however.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 06 March 2021, 19:21:03

It does make me feel a little hope for the future that at least a few of your generation can so succinctly put your finger on a few of the major problems with our society however.


I would peg the inflection as occurring around 1978. Reagan's Republican Party is profoundly different from the Republican Party that existed before.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: N8N on Sat, 06 March 2021, 19:35:00

It does make me feel a little hope for the future that at least a few of your generation can so succinctly put your finger on a few of the major problems with our society however.


I would peg the inflection as occurring around 1978. Reagan's Republican Party is profoundly different from the Republican Party that existed before.


In my last post I implied 1980, so we pretty much agree on this.  I'm not quite old enough to really be more precise than a couple years anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AJM on Tue, 09 March 2021, 08:43:02
For comparison, behold the beauty of this Sharp 10-key calculator and its wide well-positioned 0 key:
(Attachment Link)
And because of that you will probably agree with me, that the IBM Model F XT has the best layout ever and is certainly not "weird", how many ignorant people call it.

This is 100% true and I agree with you completely. Let's be best friends.

Isn't she a beaut! So many steps it looks like a castle!
(Attachment Link)

@funkmon: Deal !  ;D

@andred: I've never noticed it, but you're right. And I love castles, too.  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Fri, 26 March 2021, 09:01:43

5. The best keyboard you can buy is Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop (https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Ergonomic-Wireless-Desktop-Keyboard/dp/B00CYX54C0) - split, wireless, low-profile, short spacebar, big modifiers, embedded wrist rest, tented and negative tilted out of the box. Costs around 80$-100$. Considered bad in the community because "it's not mechanical and ortholinear haha".


can't be... it only has one 'B'  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 26 March 2021, 09:19:59
BTW, the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop includes a mouse. You can buy it without the mouse for less.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Crabby on Sat, 03 April 2021, 13:56:09
Typing is more important than handwriting by a factor of 1,000,000,000

For menial office slave work I suppose.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 06 April 2021, 10:31:37
Typing is more important than handwriting by a factor of 1,000,000,000

For menial office slave work I suppose.

And in what case is there an exception? Calligraphy? Is there a market for such things?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 06 April 2021, 20:59:45
well, HP is still highly hyped here in Asia, tbh I dont like tactile switch, linear is better
I could be wrong, but I've always thought that tactile is better for typing, and linear is better for gaming.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Engedi_ on Tue, 06 April 2021, 21:11:10
well, HP is still highly hyped here in Asia, tbh I dont like tactile switch, linear is better
I could be wrong, but I've always thought that tactile is better for typing, and linear is better for gaming.

I've heard that too but I'm going to try linear my next build to confirm it for myself.
My opinion about this hobby: You don't need to buy expensive boards for $300+ for a great typing experience.
You could actually get a entry level or beginner board as the community puts it, mod it and have a better experience than what premium boards offer.
Case in point, recently the kbd67lite r2 was compared with Iron65, and the former proved to be thockier.
Goes to show not all premium boards are worth buying, and you really need to lurk for a while and resist the urge to buy those boards until you realize this.

Another of my observations. I believe entry level or beginner board makes anyone who starts this hobby think that their first board is never good enough.
This is not true. I've never heard explanation as to what puts some boards in the above category, but I'm guessing it's the price and material.
The funny thing is whether you have the above or premium boards, you still need the same knowledge and parts to build it.
It's not as if buying a premium board makes you learn more about building keyboards. Once you build one, you know it.
Now if you're referring to different feel and sound signature, it's the materials that make a difference.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Tue, 06 April 2021, 23:32:26
well, HP is still highly hyped here in Asia, tbh I dont like tactile switch, linear is better
I could be wrong, but I've always thought that tactile is better for typing, and linear is better for gaming.
i just like the bottom out sound of linear and i dont play games. I dont think that linear tactile or clicky has anything to do with games, alot of famous game streamers use tactile for games and it doesn't seem to affect their performance in-game
sorry for the spaghetti English mate

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Tue, 06 April 2021, 23:38:37
well, HP is still highly hyped here in Asia, tbh I dont like tactile switch, linear is better
I could be wrong, but I've always thought that tactile is better for typing, and linear is better for gaming.

I've heard that too but I'm going to try linear my next build to confirm it for myself.
My opinion about this hobby: You don't need to buy expensive boards for $300+ for a great typing experience.
You could actually get a entry level or beginner board as the community puts it, mod it and have a better experience than what premium boards offer.
Case in point, recently the kbd67lite r2 was compared with Iron65, and the former proved to be thockier.
Goes to show not all premium boards are worth buying, and you really need to lurk for a while and resist the urge to buy those boards until you realize this.

Another of my observations. I believe entry level or beginner board makes anyone who starts this hobby think that their first board is never good enough.
This is not true. I've never heard explanation as to what puts some boards in the above category, but I'm guessing it's the price and material.
The funny thing is whether you have the above or premium boards, you still need the same knowledge and parts to build it.
It's not as if buying a premium board makes you learn more about building keyboards. Once you build one, you know it.
Now if you're referring to different feel and sound signature, it's the materials that make a difference.
premium board does not guarantee a better experience mate, a skilled builder does

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 07 April 2021, 01:52:40
'Premium' boards are still generally based on MX-style switches, so IMO there's a hard, and a fairly low, limit to how 'premium' the typing experience can ever get. Fancy gaskets, heavy milled cases, and rotary dials can't really compensate for the switch mechanism.

(I do wish there was some way to try the remade Model F around my neck of the woods.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Wed, 07 April 2021, 09:16:14
'Premium' boards are still generally based on MX-style switches, so IMO there's a hard, and a fairly low, limit to how 'premium' the typing experience can ever get. Fancy gaskets, heavy milled cases, and rotary dials can't really compensate for the switch mechanism.

(I do wish there was some way to try the remade Model F around my neck of the woods.)

Yeah, MX-style switches are consistent, and they're what we have, but I wish there were more switches that used the same mount as MX-styles but a different mechanism. Something that leads to more inherent tactility, maybe? I don't know, I'm not an engineer, all I know is that I want my tactiles to be heavy, have a good bump you can really feel, and if I'm using clickys in something like a macro pad (where that extra feedback helps, at least for me, for knowing that the button's been pushed quickly without bottoming out for things like soundboard triggers and meme chat macros), I'm always wishing for more tactility and a deeper-sounding click than is probably possible with current designs. That's not to say MX-styles don't have their place, they certainly do, but I would love to see more varied designs. Maybe I just haven't done enough research?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 07 April 2021, 10:08:44
well, HP is still highly hyped here in Asia, tbh I dont like tactile switch, linear is better
I could be wrong, but I've always thought that tactile is better for typing, and linear is better for gaming.

It comes down to preference. When I'm playing games, I want to be able to be totally immersed in a game. I want my keyboard as removed from the process as it can be. I tried using my beloved capacitive buckling spring, which in all other situations, is reason enough for me to type literally anything, for any reason, for the sake of typing on them. With games, even the smooth and slight tactile event of a Model F was distracting, and the click itself was even more so. That's why I still just use MX reds for gaming. They get the job done more boringly than a rubber dome.

I could see heavy tactility being something that gets in the way of split-second reactions as well.

Case in point, recently the kbd67lite r2 was compared with Iron65, and the former proved to be thockier.

Not everybody even wants a thocky keyboard and if they like clicky switches, they may not even care one way or another about that.

Another of my observations. I believe entry level or beginner board makes anyone who starts this hobby think that their first board is never good enough.
This is not true. I've never heard explanation as to what puts some boards in the above category, but I'm guessing it's the price and material.

A lot of it is subjective standards and/or features and/or brand recognition that may or may not have any validity whatsoever, much less significant merit. "Premium" should just be a meme at this point.

premium board does not guarantee a better experience mate, a skilled builder does

What even makes someone a skilled "builder"? Assembling some kit board is easy. Literally anyone with a $15 Weller iron could do it right with 20 minutes of research. What more does or does not matter to begin with comes down to preference. It is a nice/relaxing/easy way to learn soldering.

'Premium' boards are still generally based on MX-style switches, so IMO there's a hard, and a fairly low, limit to how 'premium' the typing experience can ever get. Fancy gaskets, heavy milled cases, and rotary dials can't really compensate for the switch mechanism.

(I do wish there was some way to try the remade Model F around my neck of the woods.)

Will he not even ship it directly to where you're located?

'Premium' boards are still generally based on MX-style switches, so IMO there's a hard, and a fairly low, limit to how 'premium' the typing experience can ever get. Fancy gaskets, heavy milled cases, and rotary dials can't really compensate for the switch mechanism.

(I do wish there was some way to try the remade Model F around my neck of the woods.)

Yeah, MX-style switches are consistent, and they're what we have, but I wish there were more switches that used the same mount as MX-styles but a different mechanism. Something that leads to more inherent tactility, maybe? I don't know, I'm not an engineer, all I know is that I want my tactiles to be heavy, have a good bump you can really feel, and if I'm using clickys in something like a macro pad (where that extra feedback helps, at least for me, for knowing that the button's been pushed quickly without bottoming out for things like soundboard triggers and meme chat macros), I'm always wishing for more tactility and a deeper-sounding click than is probably possible with current designs. That's not to say MX-styles don't have their place, they certainly do, but I would love to see more varied designs. Maybe I just haven't done enough research?

If you want a lot of tactility and relatively bassy clicks with MX compatibility, you want to look at box jades.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: glibber on Wed, 07 April 2021, 12:01:51
Not sure if this has been said before, but:

Coiled cables (in the form you usually see them for keyboards) are useless and look super weird.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 07 April 2021, 12:22:50
Not sure if this has been said before, but:

Coiled cables (in the form you usually see them for keyboards) are useless and look super weird.

They're definitely retro-cool, we used to have them on telefones before cordless and cel.

You're just too Non-Boomer to appreciate our Pivotal Culture.

Hard compressor hoses are still coiled.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: glibber on Wed, 07 April 2021, 12:28:33
Not sure if this has been said before, but:

Coiled cables (in the form you usually see them for keyboards) are useless and look super weird.

They're definitely retro-cool, we used to have them on telefones before cordless and cel.

You're just too Non-Boomer to appreciate our Pivotal Culture.

Hard compressor hoses are still coiled.


I'm probably too boomer rather, and want to see a coiled cable used in a way that makes sense.
There's just no point in using it on something that you barely ever move around a lot, and not coiling the entire thing anyway.

And that random coil somewhere in the middle just looks super awkward I think.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 07 April 2021, 12:51:48
Not sure if this has been said before, but:

Coiled cables (in the form you usually see them for keyboards) are useless and look super weird.

They're definitely retro-cool, we used to have them on telefones before cordless and cel.

You're just too Non-Boomer to appreciate our Pivotal Culture.

Hard compressor hoses are still coiled.


I'm probably too boomer rather, and want to see a coiled cable used in a way that makes sense.
There's just no point in using it on something that you barely ever move around a lot, and not coiling the entire thing anyway.

And that random coil somewhere in the middle just looks super awkward I think.

Blingy in-line connectors are even more pointless than the coils. They have some utility in cases where you want to swap to different USB connector types, but if you want to do that why not just get magnetic cables that do that job much better? Everything to do with those "artisan" cables is pointless cosmetic flair. That's perfectly fine, if that's what you want going into it and those cosmetics suit your tastes. I find it tacky.

I think the coils made sense on retro mass market keyboards where if they had a removable cable, it used a proprietary interface. The company made one length and one length only, so a coiled cable is a universal compromise design element for the greatest number of possible use cases.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Wed, 07 April 2021, 12:54:07
I'm probably too boomer rather, and want to see a coiled cable used in a way that makes sense.
There's just no point in using it on something that you barely ever move around a lot, and not coiling the entire thing anyway.

And that random coil somewhere in the middle just looks super awkward I think.
ok boomer
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Wed, 07 April 2021, 12:58:27
Not sure if this has been said before, but:

Coiled cables (in the form you usually see them for keyboards) are useless and look super weird.

They're definitely retro-cool, we used to have them on telefones before cordless and cel.

You're just too Non-Boomer to appreciate our Pivotal Culture.

Hard compressor hoses are still coiled.


I'm probably too boomer rather, and want to see a coiled cable used in a way that makes sense.
There's just no point in using it on something that you barely ever move around a lot, and not coiling the entire thing anyway.

And that random coil somewhere in the middle just looks super awkward I think.

I don't see it as useless, per se, but it's definitely more of an aesthetic choice than it used to be. Before braided cables were commonplace it was just the best way to avoid kinks and tangles in your plastic-coated wires and cables. But now it's more of an aesthetic choice than anything else, and like 90% of this hobby, definitely up to preference. I prefer a nice, simple, braided cable with no coiling in my current setup, but once I have more area and a larger desk, I'll probably go for a nice coiled cable because I like the look of it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: glibber on Wed, 07 April 2021, 13:49:11
I'm probably too boomer rather, and want to see a coiled cable used in a way that makes sense.
There's just no point in using it on something that you barely ever move around a lot, and not coiling the entire thing anyway.

And that random coil somewhere in the middle just looks super awkward I think.
ok boomer

Damnit, I almost choked on my tide pod!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Wed, 07 April 2021, 14:43:29
?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Wed, 07 April 2021, 14:49:29
?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 07 April 2021, 15:01:36
?
  • Sensible
  • Convenient when the kb is moved
  • Looks good

One downside is that it gets caught on everything, including itself. I run my cables through the cable management holes on the OEM stands for monitors when suitable and it is a pain dealing with coils whenever I swap boards a lot. I don't think anybody cared much about cable management back then though other than keeping it from getting damaged.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Wed, 07 April 2021, 15:11:53
One downside is that it gets caught on everything, including itself.
Not on my AEK. And I like its detachability so much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Wed, 07 April 2021, 16:08:20
I definitely wish there were non-MX style switches with MX style mounting points.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Wed, 07 April 2021, 16:13:31
what would you like different in an mx? truly curious. in my case i've gone from searching for the holy grail to enjoying the great tools i have on my desk. same thing with hi-fi. not trying to remove that last veil of silk in front of the mic or gaining a wider soundstage to enjoying wonderful music. def does not mean i didn't spend time and money trying for a while  :D

I definitely wish there were non-MX style switches with MX style mounting points.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Wed, 07 April 2021, 18:34:34
?
  • Sensible
  • Convenient when the kb is moved
  • Looks good

One downside is that it gets caught on everything, including itself. I run my cables through the cable management holes on the OEM stands for monitors when suitable and it is a pain dealing with coils whenever I swap boards a lot. I don't think anybody cared much about cable management back then though other than keeping it from getting damaged.

One solution I have used is a PS/2 extension cable that is about 6 foot long that is not coiled at all. Just in case the computer is sitting at a distance greater than the SDL cable can reach. This way, I avoid putting strain on the original cable and still have the flexibility of movement. In its simplest form, it may be primitive, but then again, you can always get an SDL to USB cable if you wish. I find my solution to be very inexpensive and it works both ways very well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 07 April 2021, 20:43:10

(I do wish there was some way to try the remade Model F around my neck of the woods.)

Will he not even ship it directly to where you're located?

I've not checked, I could probably get one out here one way or another, but at $400 I'd like to try it before buying. And... these days I need some degree of quiet for family reasons.

Yeah, MX-style switches are consistent, and they're what we have, but I wish there were more switches that used the same mount as MX-styles but a different mechanism. Something that leads to more inherent tactility, maybe? I don't know, I'm not an engineer, all I know is that I want my tactiles to be heavy, have a good bump you can really feel, and if I'm using clickys in something like a macro pad (where that extra feedback helps, at least for me, for knowing that the button's been pushed quickly without bottoming out for things like soundboard triggers and meme chat macros), I'm always wishing for more tactility and a deeper-sounding click than is probably possible with current designs. That's not to say MX-styles don't have their place, they certainly do, but I would love to see more varied designs. Maybe I just haven't done enough research?

We have Topre, which is my strong preference. I thought I didn't really care that much, but recently moved back to Realforce when my desk setup changed and my split keyboard cables were too short to accommodate this. Turns out that Topre beats the living daylights out of Outemu Skies (which were selected after trying a good handful of silenced tactile options) and I haven't been able to bring myself to move back (longer cables have been here for weeks now). We also have vintage options- my bucking spring experiences is what makes me want to to try an F some day. I've had Alps, which I also preferred over MX. Even good scissor switches.

MX is what we have, but MX is... such a low level of mediocrity that we are wallowing in (getting back to the thread topic). This isn't the best analogy, but it makes me think of East Germans aspiring to own Ladas. Or that old English phrase, about making a silk purse out of a pig's ear.

That said, I believe that it was Maledicted who recommended Box Jades and Navies to me last year. I did try those, and of all the MX variants I got in (of a dozen or so) they impressed me most- there were actually interesting, and not more 'run of the mill almost exactly the same as the next switch'. Unfortunately, I can't use clickies at the moment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Benchiridion on Thu, 08 April 2021, 06:04:55
I enjoy spring ping.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 08 April 2021, 09:49:32
I definitely wish there were non-MX style switches with MX style mounting points.

Kailh box switches?

what would you like different in an mx? truly curious. in my case i've gone from searching for the holy grail to enjoying the great tools i have on my desk. same thing with hi-fi. not trying to remove that last veil of silk in front of the mic or gaining a wider soundstage to enjoying wonderful music. def does not mean i didn't spend time and money trying for a while  :D

I definitely wish there were non-MX style switches with MX style mounting points.

I know you didn't ask me, but I think literally everything is a fair consideration.  ;D

MX does nothing outstandingly other than just work when you need them to. Everything could be improved upon, depending upon taste. The only MX switch I still use on a regular basis is MX red, because linears are linears ... so good enough.

?
  • Sensible
  • Convenient when the kb is moved
  • Looks good

One downside is that it gets caught on everything, including itself. I run my cables through the cable management holes on the OEM stands for monitors when suitable and it is a pain dealing with coils whenever I swap boards a lot. I don't think anybody cared much about cable management back then though other than keeping it from getting damaged.

One solution I have used is a PS/2 extension cable that is about 6 foot long that is not coiled at all. Just in case the computer is sitting at a distance greater than the SDL cable can reach. This way, I avoid putting strain on the original cable and still have the flexibility of movement. In its simplest form, it may be primitive, but then again, you can always get an SDL to USB cable if you wish. I find my solution to be very inexpensive and it works both ways very well.

Sure, that makes sense. At the end of the day though, unless you really need the cable to reach varying lengths without any excess you can usually just tuck somewhere, why have it coiled? I think it made sense for vintage boards, and maybe for some today. I don't mind the cable just being straight and longer though myself.


(I do wish there was some way to try the remade Model F around my neck of the woods.)

Will he not even ship it directly to where you're located?

I've not checked, I could probably get one out here one way or another, but at $400 I'd like to try it before buying. And... these days I need some degree of quiet for family reasons.

You're missing the boat, unfortunately. Capacitive buckling spring prices are getting ridiculous on the secondhand market and who knows when Ellipse may pack up and stop taking new orders once production slows. One of Orihalcon's unrestored F107s just sold for $2,400 on Ebay. I still can't even wrap my head around that.

I hope you manage to find one to try.

Yeah, MX-style switches are consistent, and they're what we have, but I wish there were more switches that used the same mount as MX-styles but a different mechanism. Something that leads to more inherent tactility, maybe? I don't know, I'm not an engineer, all I know is that I want my tactiles to be heavy, have a good bump you can really feel, and if I'm using clickys in something like a macro pad (where that extra feedback helps, at least for me, for knowing that the button's been pushed quickly without bottoming out for things like soundboard triggers and meme chat macros), I'm always wishing for more tactility and a deeper-sounding click than is probably possible with current designs. That's not to say MX-styles don't have their place, they certainly do, but I would love to see more varied designs. Maybe I just haven't done enough research?

We have Topre, which is my strong preference. I thought I didn't really care that much, but recently moved back to Realforce when my desk setup changed and my split keyboard cables were too short to accommodate this. Turns out that Topre beats the living daylights out of Outemu Skies (which were selected after trying a good handful of silenced tactile options) and I haven't been able to bring myself to move back (longer cables have been here for weeks now). We also have vintage options- my bucking spring experiences is what makes me want to to try an F some day. I've had Alps, which I also preferred over MX. Even good scissor switches.

Yes, I think that if more people were willing and able to try vintage alternatives to MX, a lot less people would be so worried about further modifying/refining MX. I think people would be less likely to be swayed to abandon it if their preference is already for relatively light and/or rounded tactile switches without much refinement/complexity of feel though.

MX is what we have, but MX is... such a low level of mediocrity that we are wallowing in (getting back to the thread topic). This isn't the best analogy, but it makes me think of East Germans aspiring to own Ladas. Or that old English phrase, about making a silk purse out of a pig's ear.

Agreed

That said, I believe that it was Maledicted who recommended Box Jades and Navies to me last year. I did try those, and of all the MX variants I got in (of a dozen or so) they impressed me most- there were actually interesting, and not more 'run of the mill almost exactly the same as the next switch'. Unfortunately, I can't use clickies at the moment.

We need more options like those click bar switches out there so that people can enjoy how varied and interesting switches can be without buying something 30+ years old.

I enjoy spring ping.

I enjoy ping in all forms as well, rattle too usually. Depends on the board and switches though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Thu, 08 April 2021, 12:50:24
I agree. Manufacturers who experiment with novel designs should be encouraged. I like what Kailh did with the BOX designs, and it has provided some interesting alternatives to stock MX.

I've already mentioned the Zeal attempt to create an ALPS-like switch that is MX-compatible, and that should be encouraged as well.

Really, we don't need to use Cherry designs. Just something that can fit in an MX PCB and use MX keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Fri, 09 April 2021, 18:51:55
The MK community is too apologetic this days with the 'preference' mentality, every review or video says something and quickly add 'YMMV' or "But it's preference".
Gaining info is getting harder when almost every input is "preference"..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 09 April 2021, 20:55:23

  Not quite an unpopular opinion, but an outsider's confusion - what is up with the huge number of micro-"vendors" for keyboard/keycap group buys?  It seems odd that a handful of them haven't yet hoovered up the lion's share of group buy activity. 

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Fri, 09 April 2021, 21:58:42
The MK community is too apologetic this days with the 'preference' mentality, every review or video says something and quickly add 'YMMV' or "But it's preference".
Gaining info is getting harder when almost every input is "preference"..
I’d say the opposite, what with people obsessing over stock smoothness, 63.5G springs, and flexible plates lately.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: doggo1dance on Sat, 10 April 2021, 06:24:33
The MK community is too apologetic this days with the 'preference' mentality, every review or video says something and quickly add 'YMMV' or "But it's preference".
Gaining info is getting harder when almost every input is "preference"..

Its either this or gatekeeping, pick your poision
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Igby on Sat, 10 April 2021, 19:55:48
- The Keychron K4 layout (I don't know what it's called) is superior to TKL. https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k4-wireless-mechanical-keyboard-version-2
- Backlit keys are essential.
- Coiled cables with breakaways are silly.
- 40% ortholinear keyboards are insane but possibly genius.
- Rubber domes are fine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 10 April 2021, 21:53:27
The MK community is too apologetic this days with the 'preference' mentality, every review or video says something and quickly add 'YMMV' or "But it's preference".
Gaining info is getting harder when almost every input is "preference"..

Its either this or gatekeeping, pick your poision

It's standard marketing for selling people things they don't need.  Because it's virtually impossible to justify the sale of the product based on Utility or Performance, as almost all keyboards do the same thing and equally well.

So how do we market the product and justify the sale, by telling people that Because they're DIFFERENT and SPECIAL in some way, their Pointless acquisition mentality Deserves a product.  This is Vanity marketing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 12 April 2021, 03:07:45
The MK community is too apologetic this days with the 'preference' mentality, every review or video says something and quickly add 'YMMV' or "But it's preference".
Gaining info is getting harder when almost every input is "preference"..

Its either this or gatekeeping, pick your poision
i do think that the over-apologetics are a reaction to the gatekeepers, both exist and oppose each others, one try to make everyone feel good, the other try to make everyone feel bad and leave them alone. i kinda often fall into the 1st category i think, but i'd rather be there than a gate-keeping jerk. maybe our forum have more of the apology kind but from what i hear reddit seems to have more gatekeepers, so who knows who wins overall. and youtubers often have a monetary incentive in getting the community to grow, so they are rather unlikely to fall into the gatekeeper archetype.
although they are kinda right, i am a big fan of big heavy clicky boards (M122 being my current favorite) and 2 friend of mine both hate my M, one likes lite clickies and the other very lite tactile, all 3 opinions are valid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 12 April 2021, 07:47:26
I'm in the 'preference' camp, but think that lots of keyboard options (switches, cases, caps) these days just suck. I don't really see any conflict with thinking both at the same time.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:03:05
- The Keychron K4 layout (I don't know what it's called) is superior to TKL. https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k4-wireless-mechanical-keyboard-version-2

I have no need for a numberpad myself. To each their own. Both would be usable for me as I don't care about space between the nav cluster and/or arrow keys, etc. It is a big deal for a lot of people though.

- Backlit keys are essential.

Why's that? No touch typing? I think backlighting is useful for a wireless HTPC keyboard that might be used at odd angles without any desk and/or need frequent use of potentially proprietary media control mappings. Otherwise, I often type in bed with a keyboard under the blanket.

- Coiled cables with breakaways are silly.

Agreed. I think all "artisans" are silly unless you want a very specific aesthetic that you can't easily find otherwise and/or you want something more durable than can be purchased retail.

- Rubber domes are fine.

Good ones are. I would even argue that good dome with slider boards are better than MX, to my tastes anyway.

I'm in the 'preference' camp, but think that lots of keyboard options (switches, cases, caps) these days just suck. I don't really see any conflict with thinking both at the same time.

You can still describe objective differences between the characteristics of a given switch, case, plate, modification, etc, that could be helpful for someone who hasn't been able to experience them themselves. Whether or not those characteristics are desirable are what comes down to preference. The problem stems from people who proclaim things like "beam spring is the one true clicky switch", "Topre is the best tactile switch", "PBT double shots or bust", etc.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Mon, 12 April 2021, 13:00:26
- Backlit keys are essential.

Why's that? No touch typing? I think backlighting is useful for a wireless HTPC keyboard that might be used at odd angles without any desk and/or need frequent use of potentially proprietary media control mappings. Otherwise, I often type in bed with a keyboard under the blanket.

Backlit keys are good for some people. People who weren't raised on touch typing and aren't used to it, older people who need that backlight to see the keys they aren't used to using, etc. Backlighting is not only good for aesthetics, but accessibility for some people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 12 April 2021, 13:58:22
- Backlit keys are essential.

Why's that? No touch typing? I think backlighting is useful for a wireless HTPC keyboard that might be used at odd angles without any desk and/or need frequent use of potentially proprietary media control mappings. Otherwise, I often type in bed with a keyboard under the blanket.

Backlit keys are good for some people. People who weren't raised on touch typing and aren't used to it, older people who need that backlight to see the keys they aren't used to using, etc. Backlighting is not only good for aesthetics, but accessibility for some people.

I learned touch typing in high school, which wasn't even a required course (and not a particularly popular elective). This was when the typewriter was dead but before computers were as ascendent as they are today. We had a computer present at home since I was a small child, although there wasn't much typing going on on it at that point since we didn't even have a modem. I don't recall whether or not it really had any sort of word processing software either. It was an old hand-me-down Macintosh Performa. I did use computers for typing relatively commonly though through all of middle school, and sometimes prior to it. There was a computer class that touched on it briefly at the start of middle school with Mavis Beacon, but not enough for any of it to have been meaningful. I remember finally being able to touch type being a breath of fresh air. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Backlighting is obviously of utility for people who can't yet touch type. But why limit yourself forever?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Mon, 12 April 2021, 14:26:39
I learned touch typing in high school, which wasn't even a required course (and not a particularly popular elective). This was when the typewriter was dead but before computers were as ascendent as they are today. We had a computer present at home since I was a small child, although there wasn't much typing going on on it at that point since we didn't even have a modem. I don't recall whether or not it really had any sort of word processing software either. It was an old hand-me-down Macintosh Performa. I did use computers for typing relatively commonly though through all of middle school, and sometimes prior to it. There was a computer class that touched on it briefly at the start of middle school with Mavis Beacon, but not enough for any of it to have been meaningful. I remember finally being able to touch type being a breath of fresh air. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Backlighting is obviously of utility for people who can't yet touch type. But why limit yourself forever?

I'm in much of the same boat myself, but there's also the issue that some people just aren't as savvy with technology to the level most people on this forum, or most of my social circles if I'm being honest, take for granted. I'm only 20, and I know for a fact there are people my age who hunt-and-peck their emails and would rather work on a car engine than a computer or keyboard. There are people who are stubborn because "it's the way they learned to do it," or simply because bad habits are hard to break. And not every works a job where touch typing is necessary, or have hobbies or frequent places where it's useful. Not to mention all of the older individuals who only use their computers to look at Facebook, emails, and maybe watch some TV. Different people have different needs and skillsets, and not everyone needs to be able to touch type, even if it is a very versatile and useful skill.

And it's not people limiting themselves or just focusing on other things, either. There are people who have hand and wrist disabilities that affect the mobility of their fingers, making hunt-and-peck the only viable way for them to type easily, without pain, and / or at all. And that's not even counting the other types of problems that makes hunt-and-peck better for some people even if it is the slower way to type. Yes, you don't need backlights if you know how to touch type, but not every has the skill or can even acquire it. That's not to say you have to suddenly use them if you don't need them or like them, but that's no reason to write them off entirely.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Darthbaggins on Mon, 12 April 2021, 14:59:46
my son is learning to read and write so a layout of a keyboard throws him off, but he prefers to look at the caps on my boards since they are non backlit and he can see the legends more clearly than the craptastic gamer fonts used on most shine-throughs (like on his $25 Otemu Blu board).  I forced myself to learn to touch type since shine through was never really an option, so using a hunt-peck format was next to impossible to use in dimly lit areas when i would be on my rigs the most.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Mon, 12 April 2021, 20:44:50
The MK community is too apologetic this days with the 'preference' mentality, every review or video says something and quickly add 'YMMV' or "But it's preference".
Gaining info is getting harder when almost every input is "preference"..

Its either this or gatekeeping, pick your poision
i do think that the over-apologetics are a reaction to the gatekeepers, both exist and oppose each others, one try to make everyone feel good, the other try to make everyone feel bad and leave them alone. i kinda often fall into the 1st category i think, but i'd rather be there than a gate-keeping jerk. maybe our forum have more of the apology kind but from what i hear reddit seems to have more gatekeepers, so who knows who wins overall. and youtubers often have a monetary incentive in getting the community to grow, so they are rather unlikely to fall into the gatekeeper archetype.
although they are kinda right, i am a big fan of big heavy clicky boards (M122 being my current favorite) and 2 friend of mine both hate my M, one likes lite clickies and the other very lite tactile, all 3 opinions are valid.
I’m talking about the people commenting “preference” over every question.
It pretty much stops the flow and gathering of info in the MK community, especially in a hobby where it’s very expensive to try things, usually seen on Reddit..

Luckily I don’t see it here, that’s why I’m here  ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 12 April 2021, 23:47:12
I learned touch typing in high school, which wasn't even a required course (and not a particularly popular elective). This was when the typewriter was dead but before computers were as ascendent as they are today. We had a computer present at home since I was a small child, although there wasn't much typing going on on it at that point since we didn't even have a modem. I don't recall whether or not it really had any sort of word processing software either. It was an old hand-me-down Macintosh Performa. I did use computers for typing relatively commonly though through all of middle school, and sometimes prior to it. There was a computer class that touched on it briefly at the start of middle school with Mavis Beacon, but not enough for any of it to have been meaningful. I remember finally being able to touch type being a breath of fresh air. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Backlighting is obviously of utility for people who can't yet touch type. But why limit yourself forever?

I'm in much of the same boat myself, but there's also the issue that some people just aren't as savvy with technology to the level most people on this forum, or most of my social circles if I'm being honest, take for granted. I'm only 20, and I know for a fact there are people my age who hunt-and-peck their emails and would rather work on a car engine than a computer or keyboard. There are people who are stubborn because "it's the way they learned to do it," or simply because bad habits are hard to break. And not every works a job where touch typing is necessary, or have hobbies or frequent places where it's useful. Not to mention all of the older individuals who only use their computers to look at Facebook, emails, and maybe watch some TV. Different people have different needs and skillsets, and not everyone needs to be able to touch type, even if it is a very versatile and useful skill.

And it's not people limiting themselves or just focusing on other things, either. There are people who have hand and wrist disabilities that affect the mobility of their fingers, making hunt-and-peck the only viable way for them to type easily, without pain, and / or at all. And that's not even counting the other types of problems that makes hunt-and-peck better for some people even if it is the slower way to type. Yes, you don't need backlights if you know how to touch type, but not every has the skill or can even acquire it. That's not to say you have to suddenly use them if you don't need them or like them, but that's no reason to write them off entirely.

My primary aged son is learning to touch type, I've thrown Mavis Beacon at him- yes, this program still exists! It's really quite good, much better than any of the free online typing tutorials. And it also works with Kinesis split boards, which is a bit odd. Even if he goes off on some career tangent that doesn't require typing, he should at least learn it during school so that it's not a barrier to his more complex learning.

It blows my mind that there are teenagers who cannot touch type, it's just such a fundamental skill, being able to translate thought to written word quickly and with minimal interruption to thinking.

Sure, there are folks who have physical hinderances, but this is a tiny minority that shouldn't sway the average. Typing today is more important than handwriting, throughout school it really should be a fundamental skill.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Tue, 13 April 2021, 09:31:36
My primary aged son is learning to touch type, I've thrown Mavis Beacon at him- yes, this program still exists! It's really quite good, much better than any of the free online typing tutorials. And it also works with Kinesis split boards, which is a bit odd. Even if he goes off on some career tangent that doesn't require typing, he should at least learn it during school so that it's not a barrier to his more complex learning.

It blows my mind that there are teenagers who cannot touch type, it's just such a fundamental skill, being able to translate thought to written word quickly and with minimal interruption to thinking.

Sure, there are folks who have physical hinderances, but this is a tiny minority that shouldn't sway the average. Typing today is more important than handwriting, throughout school it really should be a fundamental skill.

After a day to think on it, I should probably have made it much clearer: I'm not trying to disagree with the point that everyone who can should learn to touch type. I also agree that typing is more important than handwriting in many situations today. But I'm also trying to look at the reality of the situation, essentially that, no matter how much you try, there's still going to be a statistically significant number of people who can't or won't learn that skill. Elderly people who are used to hunt-and-peck (which is a lot of what you see here in the southern US), people with physical or mental disabilities that make that particular skill much harder or impossible to learn, etc. I'm not trying to say we shouldn't encourage the learning of touch typing, just that the fact of the matter is there are a lot of people who just won't, and for those people, backlights on keyboards are a good utility. I'm also trying to keep in consideration the bias inherent in the fact that this is, at the end of the day, a forum for keyboard enthusiasts. We're always looking for ways to improve our typing experience, whether that's with a higher WPM or a more comfortable keyboard. There's actually a lot of people who aren't in tech communities, whether it's the keyboard community or otherwise, who just don't touch type. I don't think that's a good thing, but it's just a fact that even with the increasing relevance of typing in our world, there are a ton of jobs that just don't require that skill. Farming, car repair and maintenance, infrastructure work, construction, electricians, plumbers, etc.

In short, yes, I agree that touch typing is a good, valuable skill, but even with that we have to put aside the bias of being in tech communities, and remember that there are still a ton of people for whom touch typing is not necessary.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zslane on Tue, 13 April 2021, 12:23:05
When I was a kid, touch typing was taught as a required junior high class in my middle school. There was no assumption that every single student who took the class would need it later in life. It was, however, assumed that chances were good enough to teach it anyway. But since we have an entire generation that only types with its thumbs, and can do so faster than I can touch type (~80wpm), I'm not sure if touch typing will ever be seen as a valuable skill by educators of the future.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 13 April 2021, 13:29:04
If you can't 125wpm,  that means you haven't used the internet enough.  Internet more and it'll come naturally.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keguira on Tue, 13 April 2021, 13:51:05
If you can't 125wpm,  that means you haven't used the internet enough.  Internet more and it'll come naturally.
i'm 38 yo, i'm a backend developer, I'm on internet at least every minutes of a day, i write documents and email all day long ... 55 WPM.
I won't blame ISO-FR keyboard, i'm just lazy and i think you are wrong. All layouts are not good and not all languages are made for keyboard (or layout are not made really well).

And, an other unpopular opinion, i don't give a f*** about my WPM because it's not related to efficiency in work or social things.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 13 April 2021, 13:53:20
And, an other unpopular opinion, i don't give a f*** about my WPM because it's not related to efficiency in work or social things.


Incorrect, I type out this pointless response 2.5x faster than you, I can waste my time more efficiently than you can.

This carries through in all other input related activity.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: keguira on Tue, 13 April 2021, 16:07:40

Incorrect, I type out this pointless response 2.5x faster than you, I can waste my time more efficiently than you can.

This carries through in all other input related activity.


 ;D

well yes, but i'm comparing it with all other things we do in life.
In the end, it's seems that for most use-cases, it's like driving your car at 55 miles per hour instead of 10 miles per hour for a 1 mile trip : it's not that much important (well... less dangerous than that). I hardly write something that is more than 200 words at a time. So, ok, it can take me 4 minutes and you less than 2 but .... who cares ?
That's not part of my job or my daily life to type that fast. And that's my point : not all people cares about that. It's great, it's practical, but it's not a "must have" in life. Just like all skills.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 13 April 2021, 17:03:26

I type out this pointless response 2.5x faster than you,


And using 40% of the brain cycles as well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Sat, 17 April 2021, 07:13:00
when people are going insane about the flex thing, I think integrated plate mount is the best mount for a keyboard, I enjoy the stiffness of it, really enjoy it lol

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Sat, 17 April 2021, 13:54:45
Unless you are just copying someone else's text, raw WPM is meaningless. As long as your fingers are slightly faster than your brain, you are good. In most endeavors (creative writing, reports, coding) you can't type them in any faster than you can think them up in the first place.

That being said, I originally learned to touch-type back in the mid-80's on some electric QWERTZ typewriters (this was when I still lived in Germany). And at home, I got to practice on a Mechanical Typwriter. Until you have used one of those, you do not appreciate the pinky fingers of steel secretaries must have had back before electric typewriters. I wonder if that is part of what gave Dvorak a slight edge back in the day. I mean putting some of the most used letters on the weakest finger is kind of a cruel trick.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 17 April 2021, 17:57:00

you do not appreciate the pinky fingers of steel secretaries must have had back before non -electric typewriters


Fixed that for you.

When I was in high school in the late-1960s I told my father that I wanted to take shop class for my elective. He made me take typing, since I already knew how to use carpentry tools. And this was even before computers were even on the horizon for conventional civilians.

We had to spend the first semester on manual typewriters before the lucky few of us got to move up to the rare and breathtaking new IBM Selectric.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Sat, 17 April 2021, 21:43:05
If you can't 125wpm,  that means you haven't used the internet enough.  Internet more and it'll come naturally.
I can't type 125 words per minute. I guess I need to use the internet more.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 18 April 2021, 10:48:50
Unless you are just copying someone else's text, raw WPM is meaningless. As long as your fingers are slightly faster than your brain, you are good. In most endeavors (creative writing, reports, coding) you can't type them in any faster than you can think them up in the first place.
Agreed, I have no idea why people think that WPM is important.
The main thing is that if you can touch type, then the act of typing is not a constant drag on your thinking as you try to express yourself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 18 April 2021, 12:07:52
Unless you are just copying someone else's text, raw WPM is meaningless. As long as your fingers are slightly faster than your brain, you are good. In most endeavors (creative writing, reports, coding) you can't type them in any faster than you can think them up in the first place.
Agreed, I have no idea why people think that WPM is important.
The main thing is that if you can touch type, then the act of typing is not a constant drag on your thinking as you try to express yourself.

There is a clipping point and that is 125wpm. This is as fast as you can go WITHOUT actively suppressing comprehension. It is the most intimate connection rate between your thoughts and your intended motion.

Everything computer side is enhanced by this training.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 22 April 2021, 16:06:54
Custom keyboards are overrated and a waste of money.

(https://i.imgur.com/VAaBpei.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 22 April 2021, 16:38:29
I don't mind the shiny on the alphas but hate the shiny on other larger keys, the spacebar is the worst.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 23 April 2021, 08:11:22
I don't mind the shiny on the alphas but hate the shiny on other larger keys, the spacebar is the worst.

I love a nicely shined spacebar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 23 April 2021, 09:58:42
I don't mind the shiny on the alphas but hate the shiny on other larger keys, the spacebar is the worst.

Just take it out and buff the whole bar
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: N8N on Fri, 23 April 2021, 10:00:03
Man, if you guys like shiny keys, I got a set of Cherry doubleshots for one of ya LOL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 23 April 2021, 10:22:47
Man, if you guys like shiny keys, I got a set of Cherry doubleshots for one of ya LOL

I don't understand people who mind their caps being shiny. I think it adds character, and I actually like the feel. I also leave my 80s boards mustard yellow if they happen to have yellowed that much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Fri, 23 April 2021, 11:08:42
-anything smaller than TKL is hipster nonsense.

There are probably too many switches on the market.

-wpm is overrated and a narrow way to look at productivity. Many of the best methods for working fast and being productive involve not typing more keys, but typing fewer: for example macros, automation, advanced clipboard managers, or mapping commonly used keys (eg. Enter, esc, del, home, end, win, f5, etc.) to a multi-button mouse.

-no matter how pretty it is, if an artisan doesn't feel nice to press, it's a poorly designed artisan.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: quasistellar on Fri, 23 April 2021, 11:19:31
I just use doubleshot ABS SA caps.  They come pre-shined and the legends won't wear, so they'll look the same forever :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: foxieze on Fri, 23 April 2021, 11:20:59
I will now forever hate this forum.  :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Fri, 23 April 2021, 11:23:33
I don't understand people who mind their caps being shiny. I think it adds character, and I actually like the feel. I also leave my 80s boards mustard yellow if they happen to have yellowed that much.

Agree with most of this! Worn in caps are like shoes you've just gotten broken in, imo. Out of the uncomfortable phase where they all feel a little odd, but not so gone you have to replace them yet.

Only disagreement is with leaving older plastics yellowed. I can't stand to leave them like that, myself, but it all comes down to that magical word of "preference" in the end.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pmdbt on Fri, 23 April 2021, 11:42:31
Quote
-anything smaller than TKL is hipster nonsense.

I can see why a lot of people would think that, but honestly, for some software engineers, the smaller form factor makes a lot of sense. I personally use Neovim to write the vast majority of code. Neovim like some other older editors/IDEs rely a lot on navigating with your keyboard instead of a mouse. As such, you get used to navigating using h, j, k, l, etc, and other keys. This allows you to ditch arrow keys because it's actually more comfortable to keep your hands on the home row instead of moving it off to the side to use the arrow keys and other keys like page up and page down etc.

Once you get used to this, you start realizing that it's actually more comfortable to move your hand away from the home row as infrequently as possible, so people start going down to even smaller sizes like the 40% form factor. The goal is to do everything via your keyboard and ideally use the mouse as infrequently as possible.

I didn't understand this until when I first learned how to code. I was using an Apple wireless keyboard with a mouse and I would use the mouse for a lot of functions like highlighting lines of code etc. I would spend like 8 hours a day writing and reading code and after a few weeks of this, my wrist started hurting really badly.

Once I learned how to use vim controls properly, I started going down in form factor and my wrist pain went away. So, there are definitely practical reasons for liking smaller form factors.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 23 April 2021, 12:13:01
-anything smaller than TKL is hipster nonsense.

Agreed

There are probably too many switches on the market.

Agreed, but only because of how similar the majority of them are.

I just use doubleshot ABS SA caps.  They come pre-shined and the legends won't wear, so they'll look the same forever :)

I should really get some ABS caps that are shiny straight from the factory like that. The stock caps on old Unitek K151Ls are pretty shiny.

I will now forever hate this forum.  :confused:

Why's that?

Quote
-anything smaller than TKL is hipster nonsense.

I can see why a lot of people would think that, but honestly, for some software engineers, the smaller form factor makes a lot of sense. I personally use Neovim to write the vast majority of code. Neovim like some other older editors/IDEs rely a lot on navigating with your keyboard instead of a mouse. As such, you get used to navigating using h, j, k, l, etc, and other keys. This allows you to ditch arrow keys because it's actually more comfortable to keep your hands on the home row instead of moving it off to the side to use the arrow keys and other keys like page up and page down etc.

Once you get used to this, you start realizing that it's actually more comfortable to move your hand away from the home row as infrequently as possible, so people start going down to even smaller sizes like the 40% form factor. The goal is to do everything via your keyboard and ideally use the mouse as infrequently as possible.

I didn't understand this until when I first learned how to code. I was using an Apple wireless keyboard with a mouse and I would use the mouse for a lot of functions like highlighting lines of code etc. I would spend like 8 hours a day writing and reading code and after a few weeks of this, my wrist started hurting really badly.

Once I learned how to use vim controls properly, I started going down in form factor and my wrist pain went away. So, there are definitely practical reasons for liking smaller form factors.

That's a very limited use case, not that it is in any way invalid. I don't think it justifies the overall demand for tiny keyboards. The only use cases I have ever been able to think of where that made sense is specific programming scenarios, writers, and casual computer users who have no need for many hotkeys. I also use a mouse and keyboard all day every day. I used to even spend all day copying and pasting things for product pages in a website's content management system. I've never had any problems with wrist pain using random full-size keyboards. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Do most people need keyboards with dedicated arrow keys, number pads, etc? No, not really. But there aren't a whole lot of reasons to not have them either given the flexibility lost as the result of removing them all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Fri, 23 April 2021, 16:02:46
That's a very limited use case, not that it is in any way invalid. I don't think it justifies the overall demand for tiny keyboards. The only use cases I have ever been able to think of where that made sense is specific programming scenarios, writers, and casual computer users who have no need for many hotkeys. I also use a mouse and keyboard all day every day. I used to even spend all day copying and pasting things for product pages in a website's content management system. I've never had any problems with wrist pain using random full-size keyboards. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Do most people need keyboards with dedicated arrow keys, number pads, etc? No, not really. But there aren't a whole lot of reasons to not have them either given the flexibility lost as the result of removing them all.

Yeah, it's niche, but that's kinda the point, isn't it? We're here to nerd out over keyboards, and if people want to type on a board with only 2 buttons and put every letter in via binary, that's their thing.

I could never live with anything smaller than a 60%, though, personally.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Fri, 23 April 2021, 21:11:23
Quote
-anything smaller than TKL is hipster nonsense.

I can see why a lot of people would think that, but honestly, for some software engineers, the smaller form factor makes a lot of sense.........................

Needless to say, you make valid points. Jumping around from mouse to arrow keys to nav cluster to alphas isn't as efficient as learning to do everything near the home row as you have. But I'd argue that you'd be even more productive with a bigger keyboard, especially since you could remap the arrow keys, nav cluster, etc. to shortcuts and macros.

I'm a programmer too, and it annoyed me that frequently-pressed characters like &"%${}() are dotted around haphazardly around the board, most requiring +shift. So I moved all my F keys to the numpad, and now I have all those characters neatly arranged in single-shot keys (ie. no +shift required) just above the number row:

(https://bit.ly/32KPzHi)

Similarly, I think the standard layout of the 4 basic math operators is madness: + and - next to each other with one requiring a shift but not the other, * over to the left requiring shift, and / orphaned far below nowhere near the numbers. You've no doubt learnt to use them quickly, but I'm sure you'll agree it's not exactly an ideal layout, and obviously wasn't conceived with heavy math usage in mind. Since I no longer have F keys up top, I've replaced  F9 and F10 with / and *, so I now have a lovely little square cluster for /*-+. And I no longer need to press shift for +, as I've moved = to its own key in the F11 slot. In the F12 slot is a little macro I built that converts any selected string with a mathemetically calculated answer (ie. If I select 1.2*3/(4.5-6.7) it will convert it to -1.636).  (yes, my current keycap mixture is a stylistic mess! - I'm working on it :D )

(https://bit.ly/3tZXQn3)
 

I have other keys that bring up popup menus of frequently used phrases or glyphs. And another that can be pressed in conjunction with { to wrap a selection with curly brackets {xxxx} , in conjunction with $ to wrap it with Str$(xxxx) (to convert a value into a string), or with Q to wrap Quote tags in a forum. None of these shortcuts require a bigger keyboard per se, but the more keys you have at your disposal, the easier it is to add them to your workflow, and the more likely that you'll be able to do so without over-reliance on convoluted and hard-to-remember modifier/layer combinations.

Multitasking can also be made easier if you have keys to spare. I have a devoted arrow-like cluster on my macropad just for window navigation. The left/right keys move the current window to adjacent monitors, the up/down keys maximise /minimise, while the northwest key centres (and shrinks) the current window, while the northeast key stretches it top-to-bottom. If I hold CTRL, these keys turn into docking keys, snapping the current window to the left/right/top/bottom half of the screen, or in the case of the northeast and northwest keys, to the top-left or top-right corners. All of this can be achieved with regular hotkeys of course, but not as quickly and intuitively as with a dedicated arrow-like cluster like this:

(https://bit.ly/3aCv2cp)

Below that, I have another dedicated cluster that utilises a slightly altered version of alt-tabbing. The southwest key activates the persistent version of alt-tab (alt-ctrl-tab) on press and spacebar on release. What this means is while I hold it down, I can use the arrow keys to move left/right through the paneled windows (no need to switch between tab and shift-tab which is much slower). I can press the north key (mapped to delete) to close the currently selected window. When I release, spacebar brings to focus the currently selected window (required for the alt-ctrl-tab variant, which doesn't normally do anything on release as it's persistent).

(https://bit.ly/3awW2tO)

While I think the functionality above would be useful for a great many users, the point is not to convince people of my own preferred macros and UX hacks, but to encourage people to implement their own, suited to their own particular workflow and needs. The standard ANSI/ISO layouts have a great many inherent usability flaws, and every compact or alternative layout I've seen inherits those flaws and/or adds new limitations. Same with Windows OS shortcuts (case in point above: moving/docking/maximising/minimising/stretching windows are all functionally similar yet use wildly different hotkey combinations that are cumbersome to combine). So when I personally look at a a 60% or whatever layout, yes, I see the compactness, elegance, and ergonomics, but most of all I see stripped potential and an enforcement to do many things the hard way.

But I'm not normal, so maybe it's just me  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Fri, 23 April 2021, 23:39:44
Quote
But I'm not normal, so maybe it's just me  ;)

Your setup is quite abnormal, to say the least, but whatever floats your boat. I couldn't imagine using your f row setup, but the nav and arrow cluster looks pretty good actually.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sat, 24 April 2021, 00:33:05
Similarly, I think the standard layout of the 4 basic math operators is madness: + and - next to each other with one requiring a shift but not the other, * over to the left requiring shift, and / orphaned far below nowhere near the numbers. You've no doubt learnt to use them quickly, but I'm sure you'll agree it's not exactly an ideal layout, and obviously wasn't conceived with heavy math usage in mind. Since I no longer have F keys up top, I've replaced  F9 and F10 with / and *, so I now have a lovely little square cluster for /*-+. And I no longer need to press shift for +, as I've moved = to its own key in the F11 slot. In the F12 slot is a little macro I built that converts any selected string with a mathemetically calculated answer (ie. If I select 1.2*3/(4.5-6.7) it will convert it to -1.636).  (yes, my current keycap mixture is a stylistic mess! - I'm working on it :D )

This is a great idea. In modern context, the location of arithmetic operators is bloody terrible. We've just adapted to it, but when I stopped to think about it, the idea of clustering them together (if you don't have a numpad) makes so much sense.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Sat, 24 April 2021, 01:14:08
This is a great idea. In modern context, the location of arithmetic operators is bloody terrible. We've just adapted to it, but when I stopped to think about it, the idea of clustering them together (if you don't have a numpad) makes so much sense.

For a long time it was an annoyance I was only vaguely conscious of, but once I started thinking more about keyboard customisation, the arithmetic operators immediately jumped out as a problem worth solving. The numpad solves it already, of course, but presents its own problems, for programmers especially: the numbers and -/*+ are together, but are nowhere near other characters which must often be used at the same time, like ()[]{}%"$, not to mention alphas, which are also frequently used alongside numbers when programming. Typing something as trivial as if "var" != (1+2)/3 using the numpad requires doing practically two laps of the entire keyboard  :D Even Excel (which on the surface seems perfectly suited to the numpad) suffers, since you're very likely to be swapping between numbers and ( ) $ =, not to mention TAB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: headphone_jack on Sat, 24 April 2021, 22:13:27
Similarly, I think the standard layout of the 4 basic math operators is madness: + and - next to each other with one requiring a shift but not the other, * over to the left requiring shift, and / orphaned far below nowhere near the numbers. You've no doubt learnt to use them quickly, but I'm sure you'll agree it's not exactly an ideal layout, and obviously wasn't conceived with heavy math usage in mind. Since I no longer have F keys up top, I've replaced  F9 and F10 with / and *, so I now have a lovely little square cluster for /*-+. And I no longer need to press shift for +, as I've moved = to its own key in the F11 slot. In the F12 slot is a little macro I built that converts any selected string with a mathemetically calculated answer (ie. If I select 1.2*3/(4.5-6.7) it will convert it to -1.636).  (yes, my current keycap mixture is a stylistic mess! - I'm working on it :D )

This is a great idea. In modern context, the location of arithmetic operators is bloody terrible. We've just adapted to it, but when I stopped to think about it, the idea of clustering them together (if you don't have a numpad) makes so much sense.

I've been programming every board I convert with a special numpad layout to solve exactly this issue. Rather than have numlock toggle a nav cluster, I assign it to a toggle layer key that outputs common mathematical modifiers (XYZ, ^, (), etc). While this obviously doesn't work with anything less than a fullsize, and still requires the use of layers, it is a staggering improvement to using shift with numrow keys to output some of these characters. It probably wouldn't be too hard to implement something like this into a smaller form factor as well, although having a 2 layer numpad would be even less convenient.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Sun, 25 April 2021, 23:36:16
@volny i think this is the first justification for f-row that i can support. i really like how you've reimagined the keyboard to meet your needs. i'll likely be making some adjustments after a little more thinking. nice work, and thanks!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: N8N on Mon, 26 April 2021, 00:09:36
@volny i think this is the first justification for f-row that i can support. i really like how you've reimagined the keyboard to meet your needs. i'll likely be making some adjustments after a little more thinking. nice work, and thanks!
Obviously you don't use AutoCAD!  I'm constantly using F3, F8, F9.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 26 April 2021, 10:41:04
Obviously you don't use AutoCAD!  I'm constantly using F3, F8, F9.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

Interesting using Tapatalk on a keyboard forum. I guess the keyboard is finished.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Mon, 26 April 2021, 10:59:20
Obviously you don't use AutoCAD!  I'm constantly using F3, F8, F9.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

Interesting using Tapatalk on a keyboard forum. I guess the keyboard is finished.
Only F3, F8, F9 are working.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Mon, 26 April 2021, 11:06:22
1.- Probably unpopular: all MX design based switch at any price point sound bad or meh at best, with a very high pitch plasticky sound and keyboards won't sound great again until manufacturers move away from the MX design an develop a new switch with way more room inside the switch in contrast to Cherry's tight housing

2.- There's no point of a two part cable if the keyboard already have a connector for a removable cable

3.- People spend too much time looking for switch wobble, why would it matter if there's no binding and no accidental 2 key presses. Stop complaining because something you notice when looking the keyboard at 5cm distance and pressing a key intentionally way too slow. Like stop looking for imperfections, if people would just type at full speed on the damn thing they wouldn't notice at least 70% of the things they complain about.

4.- The "mechanical" term is stupid, why don't we just differentiate keyboards by  "good keyboards" and "bad keyboards"?.

5.- Most people that think they need full NKRO don't need it, keyboard manufacturers already know how consumers use their keyboard and design the matrix accordingly, and the left side of the matrix often support most of common gaming key combinations and yes, I mean even membrane boards.

6.- Rubber domes are fine and decent rubber domes have a way more pronounced tactility than many modern tactile switches

7.- A great portion of tactile switches you won't notice the tactility when typing at full speed

8.- The is no such thing as "X switches are better for gaming", when gaming people usually bottom keys very firmly and don't notice the tactile event if they are focused on the actual game.

9.- ISO is better than ANSI, the only advantage of ANSI is the key mapping because it's more convenient for programmers, but the physical distribution of keys of ISO is superior, why would you need such a large Left Shift and woud take a slim Enter over a big Enter that is way easier to find with both diagonal and horizontal pinky movement. Anyone that says ANSI is better than ISO is just wrong.

10.- Justifying pointless "competitive" keyboard marketing features (short switch stem, 1000hz polling rate, etc) because "but professional gamers need every advantage" is stupid. Stop, just stop, don't throw money where there's no real value for you.

Sorry for the long rant, needed to get that off me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Mon, 26 April 2021, 12:10:13
@volny i think this is the first justification for f-row that i can support. i really like how you've reimagined the keyboard to meet your needs. i'll likely be making some adjustments after a little more thinking. nice work, and thanks!
Obviously you don't use AutoCAD!  I'm constantly using F3, F8, F9.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

you are correct.


edited to eliminate original snarky response.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Mon, 26 April 2021, 19:42:17
1.- Probably unpopular: all MX design based switch at any price point sound bad or meh at best, with a very high pitch plasticky sound and keyboards won't sound great again until manufacturers move away from the MX design an develop a new switch with way more room inside the switch in contrast to Cherry's tight housing

2.- There's no point of a two part cable if the keyboard already have a connector for a removable cable

3.- People spend too much time looking for switch wobble, why would it matter if there's no binding and no accidental 2 key presses. Stop complaining because something you notice when looking the keyboard at 5cm distance and pressing a key intentionally way too slow. Like stop looking for imperfections, if people would just type at full speed on the damn thing they wouldn't notice at least 70% of the things they complain about.

4.- The "mechanical" term is stupid, why don't we just differentiate keyboards by  "good keyboards" and "bad keyboards"?.

5.- Most people that think they need full NKRO don't need it, keyboard manufacturers already know how consumers use their keyboard and design the matrix accordingly, and the left side of the matrix often support most of common gaming key combinations and yes, I mean even membrane boards.

6.- Rubber domes are fine and decent rubber domes have a way more pronounced tactility than many modern tactile switches

7.- A great portion of tactile switches you won't notice the tactility when typing at full speed

8.- The is no such thing as "X switches are better for gaming", when gaming people usually bottom keys very firmly and don't notice the tactile event if they are focused on the actual game.

9.- ISO is better than ANSI, the only advantage of ANSI is the key mapping because it's more convenient for programmers, but the physical distribution of keys of ISO is superior, why would you need such a large Left Shift and woud take a slim Enter over a big Enter that is way easier to find with both diagonal and horizontal pinky movement. Anyone that says ANSI is better than ISO is just wrong.

10.- Justifying pointless "competitive" keyboard marketing features (short switch stem, 1000hz polling rate, etc) because "but professional gamers need every advantage" is stupid. Stop, just stop, don't throw money where there's no real value for you.

Sorry for the long rant, needed to get that off me
Big ass enter key is far superior than ANSI or ISO, having space to smash is Devine, sadly no keyboard supports that without ruining the shift keys or the backspace key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Mon, 26 April 2021, 19:44:29
Sadly I haven't tried Big Ass Enter in a mechanical keyboard, I bet it's epic and great to use
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Mon, 26 April 2021, 19:50:40
1.- Probably unpopular: all MX design based switch at any price point sound bad or meh at best, with a very high pitch plasticky sound and keyboards won't sound great again until manufacturers move away from the MX design an develop a new switch with way more room inside the switch in contrast to Cherry's tight housing

2.- There's no point of a two part cable if the keyboard already have a connector for a removable cable

3.- People spend too much time looking for switch wobble, why would it matter if there's no binding and no accidental 2 key presses. Stop complaining because something you notice when looking the keyboard at 5cm distance and pressing a key intentionally way too slow. Like stop looking for imperfections, if people would just type at full speed on the damn thing they wouldn't notice at least 70% of the things they complain about.

4.- The "mechanical" term is stupid, why don't we just differentiate keyboards by  "good keyboards" and "bad keyboards"?.

5.- Most people that think they need full NKRO don't need it, keyboard manufacturers already know how consumers use their keyboard and design the matrix accordingly, and the left side of the matrix often support most of common gaming key combinations and yes, I mean even membrane boards.

6.- Rubber domes are fine and decent rubber domes have a way more pronounced tactility than many modern tactile switches

7.- A great portion of tactile switches you won't notice the tactility when typing at full speed

8.- The is no such thing as "X switches are better for gaming", when gaming people usually bottom keys very firmly and don't notice the tactile event if they are focused on the actual game.

9.- ISO is better than ANSI, the only advantage of ANSI is the key mapping because it's more convenient for programmers, but the physical distribution of keys of ISO is superior, why would you need such a large Left Shift and woud take a slim Enter over a big Enter that is way easier to find with both diagonal and horizontal pinky movement. Anyone that says ANSI is better than ISO is just wrong.

10.- Justifying pointless "competitive" keyboard marketing features (short switch stem, 1000hz polling rate, etc) because "but professional gamers need every advantage" is stupid. Stop, just stop, don't throw money where there's no real value for you.

Sorry for the long rant, needed to get that off me
Big ass enter key is far superior than ANSI or ISO, having space to smash is Devine, sadly no keyboard supports that without ruining the shift keys or the backspace key.

Check out the Zowie Celeritas, yeah it sacrifies a bit of RShift but still wide enough and with 2u backspace: https://zowie.benq.com/en-ap/product/keyboard/keyboard/celeritas-ii.html
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 26 April 2021, 19:52:14

sadly no keyboard supports that without ruining the shift keys or the backspace key.


Yes, thank you. I was never able to articulate it properly. But since your evaluation is accurate, standard-ANSI is the only viable layout for me.

Experience and experimentation have shown me that I typically use the right side of the Left Shift, the right side of Right Shift, and the left side of Backspace.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 27 April 2021, 14:06:32
Obviously you don't use AutoCAD!  I'm constantly using F3, F8, F9.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

Interesting using Tapatalk on a keyboard forum. I guess the keyboard is finished.

I'm pretty sure there are multiple threads about Tapatalk on here. I think that touchscreens are only one tier above useless (barely) and only use them if there isn't a real computer within a reasonable walking distance.

1.- Probably unpopular: all MX design based switch at any price point sound bad or meh at best, with a very high pitch plasticky sound and keyboards won't sound great again until manufacturers move away from the MX design an develop a new switch with way more room inside the switch in contrast to Cherry's tight housing

Agreed. MX has run its course.

2.- There's no point of a two part cable if the keyboard already have a connector for a removable cable

Agreed.

3.- People spend too much time looking for switch wobble, why would it matter if there's no binding and no accidental 2 key presses. Stop complaining because something you notice when looking the keyboard at 5cm distance and pressing a key intentionally way too slow. Like stop looking for imperfections, if people would just type at full speed on the damn thing they wouldn't notice at least 70% of the things they complain about.

Agreed.

4.- The "mechanical" term is stupid, why don't we just differentiate keyboards by  "good keyboards" and "bad keyboards"?.

Agreed, but that's what we have. What's good and bad is also subjective anyway though. I think Chyros has a Youtube video on the topic, but I forget its title. I think that mechanical does the job well enough for most applications given that the majority of keyboards available today are still cheap dome boards that feel like typing on wet cardboard.

5.- Most people that think they need full NKRO don't need it, keyboard manufacturers already know how consumers use their keyboard and design the matrix accordingly, and the left side of the matrix often support most of common gaming key combinations and yes, I mean even membrane boards.

Agreed.

6.- Rubber domes are fine and decent rubber domes have a way more pronounced tactility than many modern tactile switches

I agree that some rubber domes are fine. I would even say that I like most rubber domes more than most MX tactiles I have tried. Some of those extremely thin Apple boards are literally worse in my mind than just using a laser-projected keyboard on a desk ... or one of those waterproof roll-up keyboards.

7.- A great portion of tactile switches you won't notice the tactility when typing at full speed

I don't know if it is a great portion, but this is certainly the case in the MX family.

8.- The is no such thing as "X switches are better for gaming", when gaming people usually bottom keys very firmly and don't notice the tactile event if they are focused on the actual game.

I find tactility when gaming to be a little distracting. You may be hitting the same key a lot of times repeatedly and I would rather have a linear that I can just forget about and become totally immersed in the game than to feel and/or hear every single press. Either way, it is all preference.

9.- ISO is better than ANSI, the only advantage of ANSI is the key mapping because it's more convenient for programmers, but the physical distribution of keys of ISO is superior, why would you need such a large Left Shift and woud take a slim Enter over a big Enter that is way easier to find with both diagonal and horizontal pinky movement. Anyone that says ANSI is better than ISO is just wrong.

I don't use left shift at all, so I would agree with you if my preference were all that mattered. It seems like I may be in the minority in using the right shift 100% of the time. I can't say I would like for left shift to be so tiny if I actually used it outside of gaming. I find ISO enter to be totally useless and similarly have never gotten accustomed to the XT layout and have not purchased a beamspring keyboard, in part, due to this. I tend to hit enter on the leftmost edge. Look at the way the keys are staggered on the right side of an ANSI board. Shift is longest, enter is a little shorter, | is a little shorter, and the original delete key was only one unit. I would argue that this setup is actually ideal (with or without the amazing big ass enter key). Maybe it is just my lanky fingers, but it seems more natural to me to stretch my pinky further to the right the further up the board I move. With ISO, I miss enter entirely ... but I don't mind a single unit delete key at all because of how far it is up the board.

Maybe this has more to do with muscle memory than natural ergonomics, maybe there's overlap of both, but I can't do those vertical enter keys.

10.- Justifying pointless "competitive" keyboard marketing features (short switch stem, 1000hz polling rate, etc) because "but professional gamers need every advantage" is stupid. Stop, just stop, don't throw money where there's no real value for you.

I agree, but I think these things mostly exist because of "gaming" keyboard manufacturers trying to hype up some new nonsense to convince people to buy their product. MX red does the job just fine (besides maybe a little too light of springs if you ask me), and brands like Corsair can't just sell the same old MX red boards forever.

Sorry for the long rant, needed to get that off me

There's a lot of nonsense to justifiably rant about in these regards.  ;D

Sadly I haven't tried Big Ass Enter in a mechanical keyboard, I bet it's epic and great to use

It is, especially with something particularly thunderous beneath it, like capacitive buckling spring, Alps SKCM, or box thick clicks.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Tue, 27 April 2021, 19:03:10

sadly no keyboard supports that without ruining the shift keys or the backspace key.


Yes, thank you. I was never able to articulate it properly. But since your evaluation is accurate, standard-ANSI is the only viable layout for me.

Experience and experimentation have shown me that I typically use the right side of the Left Shift, the right side of Right Shift, and the left side of Backspace.


Yeah that's why I made a makeshift big ass enter key (I'll call it BAEK) on my 60%, I ordered a BAEK meant for a steelseries KB, cut off the extra weird pin and glued a stem to have it sit on the \| switch for support, it isn't perfect, I gotta tune it more, but BAEK is miles better than ANSI or the ISO layout.
Those keys at least how I see it, we're meant to be aggresivly reached, that's why they're big, shrinking them and adding keys next to them kind of goes against their point IMO, your experience is exactly how I feel.


Sadly I haven't tried Big Ass Enter in a mechanical keyboard, I bet it's epic and great to use
The space to smash it really convinient, I found myself hitting the \| key often.



Check out the Zowie Celeritas, yeah it sacrifies a bit of RShift but still wide enough and with 2u backspace: https://zowie.benq.com/en-ap/product/keyboard/keyboard/celeritas-ii.html


Funny you mention it, I have this exact keyboard, switches are not the best but they're pretty smooth and have zero binding' the Big ass enter key is working fantastically, altough with a unique config, an regular ansi layout with extra 1u stabs for support, so changing keycaps is not valid.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Tue, 27 April 2021, 20:51:57
Quote
1.- Probably unpopular: all MX design based switch at any price point sound bad or meh at best, with a very high pitch plasticky sound and keyboards won't sound great again until manufacturers move away from the MX design an develop a new switch with way more room inside the switch in contrast to Cherry's tight housing

Agreed. MX has run its course.


And the level of refinement they got with the MX design is impressive, imagine if all those efforts go for example on a Matias switch, we could get a really impressive simplified alps switch, or any design really.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Cosmin on Wed, 28 April 2021, 04:48:09
Quote
1.- Probably unpopular: all MX design based switch at any price point sound bad or meh at best, with a very high pitch plasticky sound and keyboards won't sound great again until manufacturers move away from the MX design an develop a new switch with way more room inside the switch in contrast to Cherry's tight housing

Agreed. MX has run its course.


And the level of refinement they got with the MX design is impressive, imagine if all those efforts go for example on a Matias switch, we could get a really impressive simplified alps switch, or any design really.

The MX design is after all a compatibility thing. Designing and implementing a completely new switch would invalidate the huge amounts of keycaps available new and used, as well as PCBs (and PCB designs). The refinement that is giving us Zeal switches and Wilba PCBs whilst still maintaining compatibility far outweighs any new switch design in terms of convenience and usability.

What would a new switch design bring that would off-set the above disadvantages? I'm genuinely curious.



BTW a note on cables with two connectors - it's an aesthetic thing. From a usability point of view they're useless, but the hobby isn't really all about usability, otherwise we'd all be using 20$ membrane boards. Except the full programmability that comes with custom firmwares like QMK, I would never be able to use a keyboard efficiently without being able to remap stuff and use layers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 28 April 2021, 09:42:09
And the level of refinement they got with the MX design is impressive, imagine if all those efforts go for example on a Matias switch, we could get a really impressive simplified alps switch, or any design really.

That would be great, but I think Matias needs to do a better job of clearing their name first. I have literally had 0 problems with their Gaote-manufactured switches. I've been using this V80 with their "quiet click" switches, a clicky variant at home, and the linear variant off and on at another location for weeks straight now, and I have used 8+ Matias mini boards off and on for over a year otherwise to try to break them. Two of them ride around in my vehicles (one in each car), sliding around with random Chromebook parts on the floor when I'm not using them with my android head units. I haven't had a problem with any of them outside of some chatter on the very first board I bought new just over a year ago. That went away with use within the first week. A coworker now uses that board daily at home.

Matias shouldn't be resigned to selling boards to nostalgic Apple hipsters. I wouldn't be surprised if some issues remain, but the currently-manufactured Gaote switches seem to be much more reliable than the old Forward ones. I'm not sure what they could do to improve the sound and feel though besides maybe materials. I don't know that they're ever going to be quite as nice as Alps SKCM, and they're already better than everything else in mass production today in my opinion.

The MX design is after all a compatibility thing. Designing and implementing a completely new switch would invalidate the huge amounts of keycaps available new and used, as well as PCBs (and PCB designs). The refinement that is giving us Zeal switches and Wilba PCBs whilst still maintaining compatibility far outweighs any new switch design in terms of convenience and usability.

What would a new switch design bring that would off-set the above disadvantages? I'm genuinely curious.

I almost never use MX (MX red for gaming, since linears are just linears). The only MX-compatible switches I use for typing are box jade and navy. Everything else is either some ancient dead switch type, or Matias (and sometimes Topre if I'm in the mood for tactiles), because they all just feel and sound better in every way. I can't customize them every possible way I may like, and I don't care, because the overall experience is a lot better to me either way.

MX compatibility is the standard because MX was what was most available when mechanical keyboards started to become popular again. I don't think there's any argument to be made to not abandon MX compatibility if an entirely different mechanism seems totally superior to you, especially if doing so means a shift in demand (and thus eventually creating availability) of alternative customization options for the other platform. We've already got optical and hall effect switches that can be easily hot swapped without any concern for physical contacts of any kind, meaning that eliminates the vulnerabilities of MX hot swap sockets. Not only are these switches inherently smoother and more reliable than MX due to a lack of physical contacts, but unlike a physical contact (which is either on or off) they can also track slider location at every point in travel. You can set your own actuation point or even use keys like WASD like you would an analogue stick or triggers on a console, in order to easily control just how fast you want to move ... which is literally one of the only things that have bothered me to no end about PC gaming. You can even use them to carry out different tasks based upon how far down you press the slider.

Even if you would want to say that MX offers you something you could never get anywhere else, there's very little it does exceptionally well. All of this concern for compatibility holds back meaningful development and adoption of alternatives, although we already know that Kaihua was able to make one of the best clicky switch mechanisms ever designed 100% MX compatible in terms of boards and caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Wed, 28 April 2021, 09:53:18
 ;)
Quote
1.- Probably unpopular: all MX design based switch at any price point sound bad or meh at best, with a very high pitch plasticky sound and keyboards won't sound great again until manufacturers move away from the MX design an develop a new switch with way more room inside the switch in contrast to Cherry's tight housing

Agreed. MX has run its course.


And the level of refinement they got with the MX design is impressive, imagine if all those efforts go for example on a Matias switch, we could get a really impressive simplified alps switch, or any design really.

The MX design is after all a compatibility thing. Designing and implementing a completely new switch would invalidate the huge amounts of keycaps available new and used, as well as PCBs (and PCB designs). The refinement that is giving us Zeal switches and Wilba PCBs whilst still maintaining compatibility far outweighs any new switch design in terms of convenience and usability.

What would a new switch design bring that would off-set the above disadvantages? I'm genuinely curious.

Compatibility issues will always be a thing when trying new designs in any market, so it's a risk that sooner or later you'll have to take in order to innovate.

IMO the 2 main things that the MX design can't offer no matter how you hack it are:
 1) Sound: for meaty bassy acoustics you need room inside the switch or and open switch and handle the acoustic with the case of the keyboard (razer switch for example), but the second is tricky because you can't limit all keyboards to one shape and material standard. The MX switch design is super tight with no room for acoustic and will always have
a plasticky higher pitch sound than more roomy designs . Examples of good bassy sound are Alps and many very old key switches that are no longer viable since they were insanely tall. However Alps like or any squared boxy design are still possible and viable for current keyboards.

2) Tactility: while I'm aware that Zeal is experimenting with t alps-inspired tactile leaf, MX way of achieving tactility is limited to round tactile event, since the tactile factor is in the slider there's no way to provide  a super sharp Tactility that a tactile leaf (Alps, SMK second gen, etc) can provide, sure you cna make the tactility stringer, but not sharp because you need a progressive curve in the slider to, well.. slide.

The only sharp tactile MX compatible switches are Kailh Box clicky switches, but they made it by implementing the click bar, (btw I love how Kailh is always experimenting new concept and bringing innovation to this market with box switches, kailh notebook switches, choc and other stuff)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 28 April 2021, 10:18:03
The only sharp tactile MX compatible switches are Kailh Box clicky switches, but they made it by implementing the click bar, (btw I love how Kailh is always experimenting new concept and bringing innovation to this market with box switches, kailh notebook switches, choc and other stuff)

I don't think this can be overstated. Kaihua and Gaote seem to be the underdog superstars of the current market in my mind. They keep trying new things, and they seem to at least come up with good results more times than they fail to do so, even when few people seem to notice.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: N8N on Wed, 28 April 2021, 18:57:45
Obviously you don't use AutoCAD!  I'm constantly using F3, F8, F9.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

Interesting using Tapatalk on a keyboard forum. I guess the keyboard is finished.

Hah.  I've been spending 10+ hours a day, 7 days a week lately in front of a PC due to work... and no I often don't have time to take a break and check forums.  Sometimes the only time I get to check forums is either last thing before I go to sleep in bed or on the couch because I've sacrificed sleep for hockey or something like that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Thu, 29 April 2021, 00:20:20
I don't use left shift at all............

Not even when you "Save As..."? Or crouch/sprint/prone/etc. in a game?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Thu, 29 April 2021, 00:46:24
Gonna be real here and say that getting mad at Glorious for reposting a GMMK Pro with cloned Olivia keycaps is silly, especially when you consider that it’s just a colorway, the colors aren’t even 1:1 to the original, it’s made out of different materials with different legends, most of the popular group buy sets for years were just vintage clones, and GMK Olivia isn’t even something you can just buy.

The community is quick to chase down “bootlegs”, but the water those bootlegs are in is so murky that it’s hard to even know where they stand.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 29 April 2021, 10:17:06
Obviously you don't use AutoCAD!  I'm constantly using F3, F8, F9.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

Interesting using Tapatalk on a keyboard forum. I guess the keyboard is finished.

Hah.  I've been spending 10+ hours a day, 7 days a week lately in front of a PC due to work... and no I often don't have time to take a break and check forums.  Sometimes the only time I get to check forums is either last thing before I go to sleep in bed or on the couch because I've sacrificed sleep for hockey or something like that.

I use a real keyboard on the couch, and in bed.

I don't use left shift at all............

Not even when you "Save As..."? Or crouch/sprint/prone/etc. in a game?

I think I mentioned that I use left shift in games, since that's the only thing that makes sense in that scenario. When normally typing, I only use the right shift key.

I don't really work in documents that are saved offline at all anymore. The school district I work in uses Google Docs, so everything is saved automatically. I do use the left shift for the exact same hotkey to take screenshots in Firefox, however.

Gonna be real here and say that getting mad at Glorious for reposting a GMMK Pro with cloned Olivia keycaps is silly, especially when you consider that it’s just a colorway, the colors aren’t even 1:1 to the original, it’s made out of different materials with different legends, most of the popular group buy sets for years were just vintage clones, and GMK Olivia isn’t even something you can just buy.

The community is quick to chase down “bootlegs”, but the water those bootlegs are in is so murky that it’s hard to even know where they stand.

I don't know why anybody would ever care, other than actually encouraging "bootlegs" because it introduces competition, which motivates competitors to both reduce prices and make improvements to outpace their rivals.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Thu, 29 April 2021, 10:33:19
I don't know why anybody would ever care, other than actually encouraging "bootlegs" because it introduces competition, which motivates competitors to both reduce prices and make improvements to outpace their rivals.
Nicely said, with all the "bootlegs" coming out and the multiple manus making the same copies, some of them have gotten so good for the price I may as well get the fake.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Chalkboard on Thu, 29 April 2021, 16:04:07
To the "bootleg" thing with GMK keycaps, here's my unpopular opinion:

They aren't bootlegs/clones/knockoffs/copies at all. To call them one of those is to assume that these low-cost sets are just cheaper versions of the same GMK sets. However, this argument incorrectly assumes that the original GMK set and the low-cost version are interchangeable and therefore hurt the original designers. In fact, the low-cost sets are distinct products for one very importance reason: ABS vs. PBT. The fact that these low-cost sets are run on PBT, to me, makes them something that was not offered previously; something new that stands on its own. I personally do not like ABS and would never buy a GMK set because they are ABS. Nothing about the existence of these low-cost PBT sets is causing me to not buy the GMK set because I wouldn't buy the GMK set in the first place. It's the designers that are ignoring running their sets on cherry profile PBT that is the main deterrent. Some designers re-run colorways on KAT, SA, DSA, etc. but still ignore cherry profile PBT. If someone else is going to do it, I will support those people instead.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Thu, 29 April 2021, 17:15:58
To the "bootleg" thing with GMK keycaps, here's my unpopular opinion:

They aren't bootlegs/clones/knockoffs/copies at all. To call them one of those is to assume that these low-cost sets are just cheaper versions of the same GMK sets. However, this argument incorrectly assumes that the original GMK set and the low-cost version are interchangeable and therefore hurt the original designers. In fact, the low-cost sets are distinct products for one very importance reason: ABS vs. PBT. The fact that these low-cost sets are run on PBT, to me, makes them something that was not offered previously; something new that stands on its own. I personally do not like ABS and would never buy a GMK set because they are ABS. Nothing about the existence of these low-cost PBT sets is causing me to not buy the GMK set because I wouldn't buy the GMK set in the first place. It's the designers that are ignoring running their sets on cherry profile PBT that is the main deterrent. Some designers re-run colorways on KAT, SA, DSA, etc. but still ignore cherry profile PBT. If someone else is going to do it, I will support those people instead.


This opinion is more confusing than unpopular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Thu, 29 April 2021, 22:19:35
To the "bootleg" thing with GMK keycaps, here's my unpopular opinion:

They aren't bootlegs/clones/knockoffs/copies at all. To call them one of those is to assume that these low-cost sets are just cheaper versions of the same GMK sets. However, this argument incorrectly assumes that the original GMK set and the low-cost version are interchangeable and therefore hurt the original designers. In fact, the low-cost sets are distinct products for one very importance reason: ABS vs. PBT. The fact that these low-cost sets are run on PBT, to me, makes them something that was not offered previously; something new that stands on its own. I personally do not like ABS and would never buy a GMK set because they are ABS. Nothing about the existence of these low-cost PBT sets is causing me to not buy the GMK set because I wouldn't buy the GMK set in the first place. It's the designers that are ignoring running their sets on cherry profile PBT that is the main deterrent. Some designers re-run colorways on KAT, SA, DSA, etc. but still ignore cherry profile PBT. If someone else is going to do it, I will support those people instead.

This opinion is more confusing than unpopular.

The logic makes sense to me (though I don't entirely agree with it). I guess the point is that making a PBT clone of an ABS set is more like an 'unofficial port' than a 'knockoff' (though I would stipulate that this logic only applies if the PBT version is genuinely high quality). Kind of like if a PC or Linux developer creates a copy of a program that was previously only available on Mac. Still legally questionable and probably opportunistic. But arguably not particularly unethical, since PC or Linux users were never going to purchase the original Mac program anyway. So it fills a previously unfilled niche, rather than trying to undercut an existing one.

Where the logic probably fails is that not everyone will be so passionately against ABS that they'd never consider buying it. Some people would presumably be fine with either ABS or PBT, and would buy the PBT version simply because it's cheaper than the GMK original, in which case the GMK set is losing real sales potential.

I think I mentioned that I use left shift in games, since that's the only thing that makes sense in that scenario. When normally typing, I only use the right shift key.

I don't really work in documents that are saved offline at all anymore. The school district I work in uses Google Docs, so everything is saved automatically. I do use the left shift for the exact same hotkey to take screenshots in Firefox, however.

Ah yes, you did. The other hotkey I suspect you might be likely to use a lot is Lctrl-Lshift-Z for Redo. (Yes, some programs use Ctrl-Y for Redo, but not for long, because developers who force their customers to do Ctrl-Y for redo will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes).

I myself use a few programs with a gazillion features that I need to frequently access (eg. Photoshop), so I probably use Lshift in two dozen different shortcuts. Often I end up mapping things to Ctrl-Alt-Shift-[letter] because it's just easier to remember to press all the modifiers than trying to remember whether it's Ctrl-Alt or Shift-Ctrl or Shift-Alt  (and single-modifier shortcuts are taken already) :D I don't even know which shift I use when typing, but for me typing isn't even the main function of a keyboard (probably another unpopular opinion!). I use my keyboard non-stop all day, and only a little of that is bona fide 'typing' (ie. composing long strings of prose). I suspect many people would be similar to me, even if they don't tend to think of their keyboard in that way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: shs0913 on Thu, 29 April 2021, 22:30:44
in my view.....
1 : It's personal taste but it's good to adjust. it's very simple design.(Portable)
2 : 2 I mostly agree..
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Chalkboard on Fri, 30 April 2021, 07:21:04
Where the logic probably fails is that not everyone will be so passionately against ABS that they'd never consider buying it.

Isn't that the point of this thread though? Unpopular keyboard opinions
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Fri, 30 April 2021, 09:11:35
Ah yes, you did. The other hotkey I suspect you might be likely to use a lot is Lctrl-Lshift-Z for Redo. (Yes, some programs use Ctrl-Y for Redo, but not for long, because developers who force their customers to do Ctrl-Y for redo will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes).

I myself use a few programs with a gazillion features that I need to frequently access (eg. Photoshop), so I probably use Lshift in two dozen different shortcuts. Often I end up mapping things to Ctrl-Alt-Shift-[letter] because it's just easier to remember to press all the modifiers than trying to remember whether it's Ctrl-Alt or Shift-Ctrl or Shift-Alt  (and single-modifier shortcuts are taken already) :D I don't even know which shift I use when typing, but for me typing isn't even the main function of a keyboard (probably another unpopular opinion!). I use my keyboard non-stop all day, and only a little of that is bona fide 'typing' (ie. composing long strings of prose). I suspect many people would be similar to me, even if they don't tend to think of their keyboard in that way.

Agree with this, as someone who both frequently uses LShift for both typing and for keyboard shortcuts, and as someone who uses LShift for soundboard macros when I'm doing some memes with friends over Discord since it's a little less frequently used.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Fri, 30 April 2021, 09:16:54
Where the logic probably fails is that not everyone will be so passionately against ABS that they'd never consider buying it.

Isn't that the point of this thread though? Unpopular keyboard opinions

other reasons to be against abs: the primary vendor has ridiculously long production times, prices significantly higher than alternatives, (recently) poor quality control, and "gatekeeper" approach for colorways with no clear/defined ownership. there are plenty of reasons to be "passionately against abs," assuming you don't mind key shine and the slippery feel.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 30 April 2021, 09:25:11
Where the logic probably fails is that not everyone will be so passionately against ABS that they'd never consider buying it.

Isn't that the point of this thread though? Unpopular keyboard opinions

other reasons to be against abs: the primary vendor has ridiculously long production times, prices significantly higher than alternatives, (recently) poor quality control, and "gatekeeper" approach for colorways with no clear/defined ownership. there are plenty of reasons to be "passionately against abs," assuming you don't mind key shine and the slippery feel.

I am passionately against anti-competitive monopolies. I don't really care otherwise myself. They're keycaps ... injection molded in different colors, they're not some revolutionary new design that should be protected by copyright law.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 30 April 2021, 09:41:18
Where the logic probably fails is that not everyone will be so passionately against ABS that they'd never consider buying it.

Isn't that the point of this thread though? Unpopular keyboard opinions


The dislike for ABS is popular. Many have strong sentiments about its tendency to shine.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 30 April 2021, 12:18:37
I just don't like GMK all that much.

The caps look really nice, but on they made the two keyboards I've put them on feel worse.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 30 April 2021, 16:44:27
I just don't like GMK all that much.

The caps look really nice, but on they made the two keyboards I've put them on feel worse.

Hrrrmr.....hmrrmr... Check  the smoothness of the cap stem. maybe that's why.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Fri, 30 April 2021, 21:24:45
I just don't like GMK all that much.

The caps look really nice, but on they made the two keyboards I've put them on feel worse.

Hrrrmr.....hmrrmr... Check  the smoothness of the cap stem. maybe that's why.


Far as I can tell, they seem to have slightly more mass than cheap PBT, so they affect the feel of the stroke.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 30 April 2021, 22:15:16
I just don't like GMK all that much.

The caps look really nice, but on they made the two keyboards I've put them on feel worse.

Hrrrmr.....hmrrmr... Check  the smoothness of the cap stem. maybe that's why.


Far as I can tell, they seem to have slightly more mass than cheap PBT, so they affect the feel of the stroke.


I can concur with this. Particularly the white on black. However, my experience is based on OG Cherry caps, therefore, I really cannot tell if it happens with GMK's.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 30 April 2021, 22:23:08
I just don't like GMK all that much.

The caps look really nice, but on they made the two keyboards I've put them on feel worse.

Hrrrmr.....hmrrmr... Check  the smoothness of the cap stem. maybe that's why.


Far as I can tell, they seem to have slightly more mass than cheap PBT, so they affect the feel of the stroke.


I can concur with this. Particularly the white on black. However, my experience is based on OG Cherry caps, therefore, I really cannot tell if it happens with GMK's.

Increasing spring by 10g should fix that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sat, 01 May 2021, 01:31:53
1.- Probably unpopular: all MX design based switch at any price point sound bad or meh at best, with a very high pitch plasticky sound and keyboards won't sound great again until manufacturers move away from the MX design an develop a new switch with way more room inside the switch in contrast to Cherry's tight housing

2.- There's no point of a two part cable if the keyboard already have a connector for a removable cable

3.- People spend too much time looking for switch wobble, why would it matter if there's no binding and no accidental 2 key presses. Stop complaining because something you notice when looking the keyboard at 5cm distance and pressing a key intentionally way too slow. Like stop looking for imperfections, if people would just type at full speed on the damn thing they wouldn't notice at least 70% of the things they complain about.

4.- The "mechanical" term is stupid, why don't we just differentiate keyboards by  "good keyboards" and "bad keyboards"?.

5.- Most people that think they need full NKRO don't need it, keyboard manufacturers already know how consumers use their keyboard and design the matrix accordingly, and the left side of the matrix often support most of common gaming key combinations and yes, I mean even membrane boards.

6.- Rubber domes are fine and decent rubber domes have a way more pronounced tactility than many modern tactile switches

7.- A great portion of tactile switches you won't notice the tactility when typing at full speed

8.- The is no such thing as "X switches are better for gaming", when gaming people usually bottom keys very firmly and don't notice the tactile event if they are focused on the actual game.

9.- ISO is better than ANSI, the only advantage of ANSI is the key mapping because it's more convenient for programmers, but the physical distribution of keys of ISO is superior, why would you need such a large Left Shift and woud take a slim Enter over a big Enter that is way easier to find with both diagonal and horizontal pinky movement. Anyone that says ANSI is better than ISO is just wrong.

10.- Justifying pointless "competitive" keyboard marketing features (short switch stem, 1000hz polling rate, etc) because "but professional gamers need every advantage" is stupid. Stop, just stop, don't throw money where there's no real value for you.

Sorry for the long rant, needed to get that off me

6 - Absolutely... I always found it funny when "tech reviewers/vloggers" would go on about how MX Browns and so on were better because of tactility when it's far less pronounced than many laptop/scissor rubber domes, especially, especially when combined with 7...

7 - For sure. All switches linearize the faster you push through the stroke. Rubber domes have a very long force curve hump rather than a tactile notch midway through the stroke. Topre is my favorite for tactility because of that... they feel tactile at full typing speeds. Even buckling springs can start to feel linear when you are typing quickly enough.

8 - The main exception I would make is the weighting causing fatigue. I get way less hand cramping/pain/fatigue when using light linear switches than with heavier ones.

9 - Here in Canada, I often come across French-Canadian ISO-ish keyboards. I wish they'd put the accent keys outboard of the shift keys like the Fn key on the HHKB... I struggle to adapt to the shift keys being further out. Heck, even replace the CapsLock with two accent keys would be preferable to me.

10 - It's sad but they do it because it sells. Most of the "tech reviewers/vloggers" just repeat the marketing material, and the more there is, the more they hype it, the more it sells. The difference between the "fastest" and normal registering keyboards is, in my opinion, probably undetectable in gaming.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Sat, 01 May 2021, 09:41:34
I don't think this can be overstated. Kaihua and Gaote seem to be the underdog superstars of the current market in my mind. They keep trying new things, and they seem to at least come up with good results more times than they fail to do so, even when few people seem to notice.
Kaihua is the real MVP of the MK community this days
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Sat, 01 May 2021, 10:46:10
graphics in signatures are completely obnoxious and distracting when reading a thread (not sure this one is "unpopular" but there are way too many people who think this is ok)


edit: apologies, ideus, not directed at you (specifically). and not even directed at this thread; mostly bugs me if a read an IC/GB thread. also, just me sh*t talking before i had enough coffee
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 01 May 2021, 11:36:58
I just don't like GMK all that much.

The caps look really nice, but on they made the two keyboards I've put them on feel worse.

Hrrrmr.....hmrrmr... Check  the smoothness of the cap stem. maybe that's why.


Far as I can tell, they seem to have slightly more mass than cheap PBT, so they affect the feel of the stroke.


I can concur with this. Particularly the white on black. However, my experience is based on OG Cherry caps, therefore, I really cannot tell if it happens with GMK's.

Increasing spring by 10g should fix that.



Dear TP4, in my case, it is not an issue; but, instead, it is a feature, that I like.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: N8N on Sat, 01 May 2021, 11:49:20
To the "bootleg" thing with GMK keycaps, here's my unpopular opinion:

They aren't bootlegs/clones/knockoffs/copies at all. To call them one of those is to assume that these low-cost sets are just cheaper versions of the same GMK sets. However, this argument incorrectly assumes that the original GMK set and the low-cost version are interchangeable and therefore hurt the original designers. In fact, the low-cost sets are distinct products for one very importance reason: ABS vs. PBT. The fact that these low-cost sets are run on PBT, to me, makes them something that was not offered previously; something new that stands on its own. I personally do not like ABS and would never buy a GMK set because they are ABS. Nothing about the existence of these low-cost PBT sets is causing me to not buy the GMK set because I wouldn't buy the GMK set in the first place. It's the designers that are ignoring running their sets on cherry profile PBT that is the main deterrent. Some designers re-run colorways on KAT, SA, DSA, etc. but still ignore cherry profile PBT. If someone else is going to do it, I will support those people instead.
I agree with this post.  I sadly learned really quickly after putting a near new set of Cherry white on black doubleshots on a keyboard the difference between ABS and PBT.  The former were destroyed in about a year, not only completely shiny which might have been OK, but the keys I hit with my pinky actually have grooves in them from my fingernails (the way I hit them, it's unavoidable even if they're trimmed close, and my nails are very hard and fast growing.)  The Imsto PBTs that I replaced them with are still on that board 10 years later.  so I too am in the PBT or nothing camp, although I haven't tried a set of POM.  Are those even made anymore?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mikhail on Sun, 02 May 2021, 18:14:17
1.- Probably unpopular: all MX design based switch at any price point sound bad or meh at best, with a very high pitch plasticky sound and keyboards won't sound great again until manufacturers move away from the MX design an develop a new switch with way more room inside the switch in contrast to Cherry's tight housing

6.- Rubber domes are fine and decent rubber domes have a way more pronounced tactility than many modern tactile switches

8.- The is no such thing as "X switches are better for gaming", when gaming people usually bottom keys very firmly and don't notice the tactile event if they are focused on the actual game.

9.- ISO is better than ANSI, the only advantage of ANSI is the key mapping because it's more convenient for programmers, but the physical distribution of keys of ISO is superior, why would you need such a large Left Shift and woud take a slim Enter over a big Enter that is way easier to find with both diagonal and horizontal pinky movement. Anyone that says ANSI is better than ISO is just wrong.

1. I had lubed linear Space Invaders and not notice any extra good sound. Plateless linear cherry with thick caps sound deeper. In the other hand i like the slits idea from pine alps - plastics thing that damp upstrokes and don't give mushy.
6. Agree. Any tactile cherry is ridiculous  because of backtravel.
8. So silents is better for gaming)
9. For typing position ISO enter is better for me, but for right hand on apple trackpad position is easer to reach ansi enter and hhkb backspace)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Sun, 02 May 2021, 19:45:49
I'm heavy handed and my fingers slip terribly on worn ABS caps. Plus shiny caps are awful as they look like someone with greasy hands used the keyboard...

Why use a Win Key Less board on a Windows PC?  You're missing out on some great shortcuts.

Linear switches are boring. Tactile or clicky are where it's at, but it can't be any old tactile or clicky switch.  I'm a big fan of Kailh's BOX switches with heavier springs. 

No F Row, No Arrows, No Number Pad=No Deal. I use old mainframes and Excel a lot, swapping layers would slow me down too much, so I need something with 100ish keys. 1800 appears to be the best comprise for those who still need a full size board and want a slightly smaller form factor.  I own four from TKC.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Mon, 03 May 2021, 03:33:37
All keyboards are stupid.

Did I win the thread?  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Mon, 03 May 2021, 04:11:11
All keyboards are stupid.

Did I win the thread?  ;)
An extreme opinion, but utterly unassailable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 03 May 2021, 07:43:47

my fingers slip terribly on worn ABS caps. Plus shiny caps are awful as they look like someone with greasy hands used the keyboard


This is my opinion also.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 03 May 2021, 09:08:16
I'm heavy handed and my fingers slip terribly on worn ABS caps. Plus shiny caps are awful as they look like someone with greasy hands used the keyboard...

I'm also heavy handed and my fingers do not slip unless I want them to, which I often find to be an advantage of them being slick. They do look like they're greasy though at first glance.

Why use a Win Key Less board on a Windows PC?  You're missing out on some great shortcuts.

Agreed.

Linear switches are boring. Tactile or clicky are where it's at, but it can't be any old tactile or clicky switch.  I'm a big fan of Kailh's BOX switches with heavier springs.

 :thumb:

All keyboards are stupid.

Did I win the thread?  ;)
An extreme opinion, but utterly unassailable.

Maybe not unassailable. Stupid as opposed to what alternative? I can type a lot faster, and more articulately, than I can speak and be understood. I can type a lot faster than I can write as well. Touchscreens are literally useless by comparison in my opinion.

Thus, I would say that keyboards are literally the most efficient form of communication in most scenarios.

If the argument is that building a community around the feel and sound of various keyboards, from the perspective of the keyboard as a tool, then yeah ... they're stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Mon, 03 May 2021, 09:36:13
I was joking, of course. After reading post after post of 'unpopular' opinions that everyone (myself included) seemed to mostly agree with, I thought I'd lay down the gauntlet with a genuinely unpopular one  :D

(though if we're going by sentience and raw intellectual prowess, I guess the statement is pretty unassailable ;) )

I share the opinion that keyboards provide the best form of communication. Though it depends on your type of mentality. I know a bunch of people who are skilled and interesting conversationalists in person, but seem to lose 30 IQ points as soon as the written word makes an appearance, barely being able to scramble two sentences together. I myself am the opposite and can express myself much more clearly and thoughtfully in the written word than I can in the spoken word.

Touch screen typing is horrible, though sometimes a necessary evil. Laptop keyboards on the other hand are an unnecessary evil as far as I'm concerned. I've never met a laptop I didn't hate using, and that includes my own.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Mon, 03 May 2021, 09:49:19
11.- Rubber domes are reliable as hell, I've never seen  a rubber dome keyboard fail, with the exception of liquid spill or failing usb cable, which can kill any keyboard and of course you heard more stories of it happening in a rubber done keyboard since most computer uses them, more samples, higher amount of specific results. Like seriously, worst case scenario sometimes the traces in the membrane starts failing because of oxidation but that thing takes at least a decade in a normal environment, if it happens at all. Meanwhile you can see thousands of post about a failing discrete switch which is the minority of keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Mon, 03 May 2021, 10:13:41
11.- Rubber domes are reliable as hell, I've never seen  a rubber dome keyboard fail, with the exception of liquid spill or failing usb cable, which can kill any keyboard and of course you heard more stories of it happening in a rubber done keyboard since most computer uses them, more samples, higher amount of specific results. Like seriously, worst case scenario sometimes the traces in the membrane starts failing because of oxidation but that thing takes at least a decade in a normal environment, if it happens at all. Meanwhile you can see thousands of post about a failing discrete switch which is the minority of keyboards.

Well yes, cheap board designed to save cost last forever bs
but can you put gmk and thousands of bucks of artisans on a normal rubber dome (cheap dell 5 dollar ones)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 03 May 2021, 10:57:18
but can you put gmk and thousands of bucks of artisans on a normal rubber dome (cheap dell 5 dollar ones)

I don't care about either of those things anyway myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Mon, 03 May 2021, 11:12:18
11.- Rubber domes are reliable as hell, I've never seen  a rubber dome keyboard fail, with the exception of liquid spill or failing usb cable, which can kill any keyboard and of course you heard more stories of it happening in a rubber done keyboard since most computer uses them, more samples, higher amount of specific results. Like seriously, worst case scenario sometimes the traces in the membrane starts failing because of oxidation but that thing takes at least a decade in a normal environment, if it happens at all. Meanwhile you can see thousands of post about a failing discrete switch which is the minority of keyboards.

Well yes, cheap board designed to save cost last forever bs
but can you put gmk and thousands of bucks of artisans on a normal rubber dome (cheap dell 5 dollar ones)

Personally I don't care about that, but if you like it that's fine
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: phwog_ on Mon, 03 May 2021, 12:27:09
big ass enter>iso>ansi (not an unpopular opinion just thought I should mention cause its true)
jwk durock recolors are THE biggest scam by keyboard manufacturers to date.
silent switches can feel better then non-silent, if the bottom out feels soft instead of mushy
mech markets are a scam, except when it comes to trading.
salmon alps aren't that good
black alps aren't that good
skcm cream alps aren't that good

all my opinion don't get mad pls ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mikhail on Mon, 03 May 2021, 12:32:13
big ass enter>iso>ansi (not an unpopular opinion just thought I should mention cause its true)
jwk durock recolors are THE biggest scam by keyboard manufacturers to date.
silent switches can feel better then non-silent, if the bottom out feels soft instead of mushy
mech markets are a scam, except when it comes to trading.
salmon alps aren't that good
black alps aren't that good
skcm cream alps aren't that good

all my opinion don't get mad pls ;D

What’s wrong with the JWK recolors?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Mon, 03 May 2021, 12:36:21
Touch screen typing is horrible, though sometimes a necessary evil. Laptop keyboards on the other hand are an unnecessary evil as far as I'm concerned. I've never met a laptop I didn't hate using, and that includes my own.

This. This x1000. I used laptops for YEARS because I needed portability, since I had to constantly move apartments thanks to my parent's job, and because it was more convenient for my extra curriculars in school, such as the robotics club (which I needed that computer for). It was always laptop keyboards or rubber domes for me, until I bought my first macropad because it was what I could afford that was mechanical and I wanted it for playing games on something that felt better than a laptop keyboard and could also put silly chat binds on. Since then I have always loved my click-clackin' mechanicals, and you would have to pay me a substantial amount to go back for even a month to laptop keyboards.

I understand why laptop keyboards are the way they are, but the tiny travel and minimal response while typing just feels absolutely awful, and I would rather have a chunkier laptop with a keyboard that feels at least halfway decent over a paper-thin thing with something that barely amounts to a keyboard at all. One of the reason I can't stand Mac computers in general, all of the keyboards they come with are just absolutely awful.

And I definitely agree that the terrible-ness of laptop keyboards is entirely unnecessary. A bit thicker, and viola, something that feels at least ok, even if it's not necessarily great. Or, if you have to use a laptop with a bad keyboard, you can build a travel-sized mechanical keeb to take with you for when you use the laptop. Either option works, but if they could just include better keyboards with decent typing feel on more modern laptops I would hate them much less, though I would still have a lot of issues with using laptops for anything outside of necessary job stuff on the go. Except for maybe 2-in-1s that can be used with styluses, like the Surface. I could use that to keep working on my digital art until I feel it's something presentable.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 03 May 2021, 13:58:23
black alps aren't that good

I think that's the accepted conventional wisdom. I think they get more hate than they deserve. I'll take them over anything MX I have tried.

Touch screen typing is horrible, though sometimes a necessary evil. Laptop keyboards on the other hand are an unnecessary evil as far as I'm concerned. I've never met a laptop I didn't hate using, and that includes my own.

This. This x1000. I used laptops for YEARS because I needed portability, since I had to constantly move apartments thanks to my parent's job, and because it was more convenient for my extra curriculars in school, such as the robotics club (which I needed that computer for). It was always laptop keyboards or rubber domes for me, until I bought my first macropad because it was what I could afford that was mechanical and I wanted it for playing games on something that felt better than a laptop keyboard and could also put silly chat binds on. Since then I have always loved my click-clackin' mechanicals, and you would have to pay me a substantial amount to go back for even a month to laptop keyboards.

I understand why laptop keyboards are the way they are, but the tiny travel and minimal response while typing just feels absolutely awful, and I would rather have a chunkier laptop with a keyboard that feels at least halfway decent over a paper-thin thing with something that barely amounts to a keyboard at all. One of the reason I can't stand Mac computers in general, all of the keyboards they come with are just absolutely awful.

And I definitely agree that the terrible-ness of laptop keyboards is entirely unnecessary. A bit thicker, and viola, something that feels at least ok, even if it's not necessarily great. Or, if you have to use a laptop with a bad keyboard, you can build a travel-sized mechanical keeb to take with you for when you use the laptop. Either option works, but if they could just include better keyboards with decent typing feel on more modern laptops I would hate them much less, though I would still have a lot of issues with using laptops for anything outside of necessary job stuff on the go. Except for maybe 2-in-1s that can be used with styluses, like the Surface. I could use that to keep working on my digital art until I feel it's something presentable.

Laptop keyboards used to be decent, even for what they are. Modern laptops are too thin. There's no reason for them to be razor thin. They should be thick enough for both a mechanical keyboard and for more powerful and/or configurable hardware with better cooling. Outside of cheap Atom and Celeron systems, there should not be BGA CPUs that cannot be upgraded without specialized tools, or a lack of DIMM slots for memory upgrades, or any reliance on EMMC without the option for SATA or PCIe storage.

I'm also the kind of guy that won't touch a phone with no 3.5mm headphone jack, micro SD card slot and removable battery though either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Mon, 03 May 2021, 14:04:38
black alps aren't that good

I think that's the accepted conventional wisdom. I think they get more hate than they deserve. I'll take them over anything MX I have tried.



I mean, in stock shape I get it, but once removed the tactile leaf they become pretty damn good linears
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Mon, 03 May 2021, 14:07:42
there's a really unpopular opinion: laptops are too thin. agreed, if the only criterion is the keyboard. there are, however, also the considerations of weight and available space in a bag for those of us who (used to) travel a bit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 03 May 2021, 14:39:16
there's a really unpopular opinion: laptops are too thin. agreed, if the only criterion is the keyboard. there are, however, also the considerations of weight and available space in a bag for those of us who (used to) travel a bit.

I carry a 17" gaming laptop to and from my friend's house. I don't store a laptop in a shared bag with other items where the screen could be damaged due to localized pressure. Laptops should have their own dedicated bags either way, and even the heaviest of laptops made in the last 20 years (besides maybe Panasonic Toughbooks, etc) really aren't all that heavy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 03 May 2021, 15:18:22

the tiny travel and minimal response


My ex-wife is a magazine editor who has typed thousands of words per day since the 1980s, and that is precisely what she wants since her typing style is floating fingertips above the keyboard and just dipping down for the least distance with the least pressure. That is not what I like, but you can't argue with a large body of evidence.




I'm also the kind of guy that won't touch a phone with no 3.5mm headphone jack, micro SD card slot and removable battery though either.

 
I would like to have that, but do they still make them that way?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 03 May 2021, 15:26:36

I'm also the kind of guy that won't touch a phone with no 3.5mm headphone jack, micro SD card slot and removable battery though either.

 
I would like to have that, but do they still make them that way?




I'm not even sure if all 3 are made by a major OEM anymore, I'm still rocking a Samsung Galaxy S5.  ;D

I find the IR blaster very helpful in random classrooms in which I may have no idea where the remote may be for random ceiling-mounted electronics, and those have basically gone extinct entirely, so I may be sticking with the S5 for a very long time into the future.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: phwog_ on Mon, 03 May 2021, 16:04:48
big ass enter>iso>ansi (not an unpopular opinion just thought I should mention cause its true)
jwk durock recolors are THE biggest scam by keyboard manufacturers to date.
silent switches can feel better then non-silent, if the bottom out feels soft instead of mushy
mech markets are a scam, except when it comes to trading.
salmon alps aren't that good
black alps aren't that good
skcm cream alps aren't that good

all my opinion don't get mad pls ;D

What’s wrong with the JWK recolors?
unless they are made of a particularly special material, IE c^3 tangerines, it is a scam. if they say they use a "different mold" its just the logo on the switch. the markup is insane compared to stock durock, for no extra smoothness. some jwk recolors, even if they do use "different materials"  :rolleyes: there are straight up clones, OF THOSE CLONES, take for example muave vs lilac linears. exact same.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: phwog_ on Mon, 03 May 2021, 16:08:09
black alps aren't that good

I think that's the accepted conventional wisdom. I think they get more hate than they deserve. I'll take them over anything MX I have tried.

Touch screen typing is horrible, though sometimes a necessary evil. Laptop keyboards on the other hand are an unnecessary evil as far as I'm concerned. I've never met a laptop I didn't hate using, and that includes my own.

This. This x1000. I used laptops for YEARS because I needed portability, since I had to constantly move apartments thanks to my parent's job, and because it was more convenient for my extra curriculars in school, such as the robotics club (which I needed that computer for). It was always laptop keyboards or rubber domes for me, until I bought my first macropad because it was what I could afford that was mechanical and I wanted it for playing games on something that felt better than a laptop keyboard and could also put silly chat binds on. Since then I have always loved my click-clackin' mechanicals, and you would have to pay me a substantial amount to go back for even a month to laptop keyboards.

I understand why laptop keyboards are the way they are, but the tiny travel and minimal response while typing just feels absolutely awful, and I would rather have a chunkier laptop with a keyboard that feels at least halfway decent over a paper-thin thing with something that barely amounts to a keyboard at all. One of the reason I can't stand Mac computers in general, all of the keyboards they come with are just absolutely awful.

And I definitely agree that the terrible-ness of laptop keyboards is entirely unnecessary. A bit thicker, and viola, something that feels at least ok, even if it's not necessarily great. Or, if you have to use a laptop with a bad keyboard, you can build a travel-sized mechanical keeb to take with you for when you use the laptop. Either option works, but if they could just include better keyboards with decent typing feel on more modern laptops I would hate them much less, though I would still have a lot of issues with using laptops for anything outside of necessary job stuff on the go. Except for maybe 2-in-1s that can be used with styluses, like the Surface. I could use that to keep working on my digital art until I feel it's something presentable.

Laptop keyboards used to be decent, even for what they are. Modern laptops are too thin. There's no reason for them to be razor thin. They should be thick enough for both a mechanical keyboard and for more powerful and/or configurable hardware with better cooling. Outside of cheap Atom and Celeron systems, there should not be BGA CPUs that cannot be upgraded without specialized tools, or a lack of DIMM slots for memory upgrades, or any reliance on EMMC without the option for SATA or PCIe storage.

I'm also the kind of guy that won't touch a phone with no 3.5mm headphone jack, micro SD card slot and removable battery though either.
just my opinion :p I am very biased, tactiles are my least favorite switch type by far. I do know that you can make damn good linears out of black alps, and those aren't anything to sleep on. simply talking stock (restored for sure, but otherwise stock) switches here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Mon, 03 May 2021, 16:16:55
there's a really unpopular opinion: laptops are too thin. agreed, if the only criterion is the keyboard. there are, however, also the considerations of weight and available space in a bag for those of us who (used to) travel a bit.

I carry a 17" gaming laptop to and from my friend's house. I don't store a laptop in a shared bag with other items where the screen could be damaged due to localized pressure. Laptops should have their own dedicated bags either way, and even the heaviest of laptops made in the last 20 years (besides maybe Panasonic Toughbooks, etc) really aren't all that heavy.

Agree with Maledicted here. My first laptop was a chunky, Windows Vista rocking HP Pavilion. Damn thing had a full DVD / CD drive built in, and was damn beefy compared to modern laptops. My only complaint would be the OS on it, because Vista is a damn nightmare, but since I got the hard drive fully wiped down to the BIOS I'm thinking of putting XP on it if I can make it work with the drivers and all that. Otherwise I'll build a different machine to do older PC games on, because I'd be fine recycling that old POS if it turns out I can't do anything with it.

But honestly modern stuff should look a bit more into the past for some ideas. Chunkier design isn't always a bad thing. Now, if you have a bag that can only be a certain weight because you're going on a flight or something like that, I get it. Carry all of the lighter stuff you can. But there is no reason that it needs to be the norm for every laptop to be incredibly thin when you could easily make more rugged designs with better durability, heat management, keyboards, and even specs and upgradability than the current slew of designs that feel fragile enough most times to feel like you could break them by moving your bag wrong unless you treat them like they're made entirely out of glass.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 03 May 2021, 17:18:15
there's a really unpopular opinion: laptops are too thin. agreed, if the only criterion is the keyboard. there are, however, also the considerations of weight and available space in a bag for those of us who (used to) travel a bit.

I carry a 17" gaming laptop to and from my friend's house. I don't store a laptop in a shared bag with other items where the screen could be damaged due to localized pressure. Laptops should have their own dedicated bags either way, and even the heaviest of laptops made in the last 20 years (besides maybe Panasonic Toughbooks, etc) really aren't all that heavy.

Agree with Maledicted here. My first laptop was a chunky, Windows Vista rocking HP Pavilion. Damn thing had a full DVD / CD drive built in, and was damn beefy compared to modern laptops. My only complaint would be the OS on it, because Vista is a damn nightmare, but since I got the hard drive fully wiped down to the BIOS I'm thinking of putting XP on it if I can make it work with the drivers and all that. Otherwise I'll build a different machine to do older PC games on, because I'd be fine recycling that old POS if it turns out I can't do anything with it.

But honestly modern stuff should look a bit more into the past for some ideas. Chunkier design isn't always a bad thing. Now, if you have a bag that can only be a certain weight because you're going on a flight or something like that, I get it. Carry all of the lighter stuff you can. But there is no reason that it needs to be the norm for every laptop to be incredibly thin when you could easily make more rugged designs with better durability, heat management, keyboards, and even specs and upgradability than the current slew of designs that feel fragile enough most times to feel like you could break them by moving your bag wrong unless you treat them like they're made entirely out of glass.

If the system shipped with Vista, there should be XP drivers for everything. Vista was so reviled on launch that OEMs started offering free upgrades from Vista to XP when purchasing a computer. You could also install a minimal Linux distro like Lubuntu and may find it to be perfectly usable still for most tasks one would use something like a Chromebook for. I'm not sure whether or not Snappy Driver Installer Origin (https://www.snappy-driver-installer.org/) still supports Windows XP, but an older version of it may still work. I love it because I can download basically every driver ever made for every piece of hardware for a Windows operating system and keep them all bundled with that program on a flash drive. I can then plug that flash drive into any system, with or without networking, and have it install all of the latest available drivers that it detects. Otherwise, this should have all of the drivers you may need (http://driverpacks.net/driverpacks/latest). I believe it is where Snappy Driver Installer Origin pulls from, and it was used pretty heavily by people that used to slipstream drivers into Windows XP with nLite as well, which is another toy you may want to look at if you want to strip all of the useless fat out of even XP.

HP may still host their versions of the drivers on their website too. Around that time period, it was common to have a set of both XP and Vista drivers for any given system released. OEM drivers are often years out of date though.

I'm honestly pretty sure that we saw a slump in performance gains in laptop CPUs for years because of this pointless obsession with "ultrabooks" with their anemic cooling and low power consumption. I hope the trend finally dies so that companies like Intel and AMD put more emphasis into performance above all else again (within reason, of course). We're seeing the opposite trend continuing in both phones and laptops though. "You need all of the ports we just removed? Oh well, get with the times. Pointless dongles are the future."
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Mon, 03 May 2021, 19:18:47
there's a really unpopular opinion: laptops are too thin. agreed, if the only criterion is the keyboard. there are, however, also the considerations of weight and available space in a bag for those of us who (used to) travel a bit.

I carry a 17" gaming laptop to and from my friend's house. I don't store a laptop in a shared bag with other items where the screen could be damaged due to localized pressure. Laptops should have their own dedicated bags either way, and even the heaviest of laptops made in the last 20 years (besides maybe Panasonic Toughbooks, etc) really aren't all that heavy.

Agree with Maledicted here. My first laptop was a chunky, Windows Vista rocking HP Pavilion. Damn thing had a full DVD / CD drive built in, and was damn beefy compared to modern laptops. My only complaint would be the OS on it, because Vista is a damn nightmare, but since I got the hard drive fully wiped down to the BIOS I'm thinking of putting XP on it if I can make it work with the drivers and all that. Otherwise I'll build a different machine to do older PC games on, because I'd be fine recycling that old POS if it turns out I can't do anything with it.

But honestly modern stuff should look a bit more into the past for some ideas. Chunkier design isn't always a bad thing. Now, if you have a bag that can only be a certain weight because you're going on a flight or something like that, I get it. Carry all of the lighter stuff you can. But there is no reason that it needs to be the norm for every laptop to be incredibly thin when you could easily make more rugged designs with better durability, heat management, keyboards, and even specs and upgradability than the current slew of designs that feel fragile enough most times to feel like you could break them by moving your bag wrong unless you treat them like they're made entirely out of glass.

It's not even just the requisite thinness that prevents laptop manufacturers from using better keyboards but, I suppose, a lack of customer demand for them. My laptop is a brick - a big, heavy 'gaming' laptop with a dedicated GPU inside. It's literally 5x thicker than my wife's laptop, yet their keyboards are basically identical. If the market allows a 5x thicker (and much, much heavier) laptop to exist for the sake of extra processing power, you'd think it would allow a 3x thicker (and only moderately heavier) one to exist for the sake of typing comfort.

And yes, Mac keyboards are terrible, but not as terrible as their mice! You've really done a number on your customers when they accept dragging a symmetrical, unergonomic rock with only one button and no wheel around a desk as desirable. How that company became associated with good design in the public imagination is a real failure of the public imagination. Their OS has some idiotic design decisions in it too. I worked as a graphic designer for many years, surrounded by Macs, and I was the only one in the office who refused to use any of the Mac peripherals. Though I'll admit that when I opened up one of the Macs one day to check some faulty RAM, it almost took my breath away. Compared to the ugly and haphazard mess inside most PCs, the inside of the Mac was almost like a work of art. Apple certainly know how to do form well. Just not necessarily function.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 03 May 2021, 20:52:54
Laptop keyboards used to be decent, even for what they are. Modern laptops are too thin. There's no reason for them to be razor thin. They should be thick enough for both a mechanical keyboard and for more powerful and/or configurable hardware with better cooling. Outside of cheap Atom and Celeron systems, there should not be BGA CPUs that cannot be upgraded without specialized tools, or a lack of DIMM slots for memory upgrades, or any reliance on EMMC without the option for SATA or PCIe storage.

I'm also the kind of guy that won't touch a phone with no 3.5mm headphone jack, micro SD card slot and removable battery though either.

Heavily agreed.

My most recent laptop purchase was to secure a Thinkpad before they totally dropped the concept of a built in NIC and removable batteries (what sort of totally crap laptop designer thought it would be acceptable not to have external batteries).

Same with phones- there is huge marketing effort into pushing thin phones, but the first thing most people do is put them into chunky cases because a slick aluminium shell 3mm wide is too easy to drop.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Mon, 03 May 2021, 22:39:23
The original Macbook Air in some ways was a real curse. Like you really need to stick a laptop in an envelope?

I don't need to stick a laptop beside my other envelopes and carry it like paper in a briefcase most of the time, it's impractical.

If they had just focused on weight reduction, while keeping thickness reasonable, it would have been fine. Same footprint on a desk/tray.

Having 'slim/light' internals in a thicker case would allow much more space for repairability and cooling, two major problems today. Form over function has gone too far with laptops, and it's caused a keyboard apocalypse. Even Thinkpads down to 1.5mm travel instead of 1.8mm, and it used to be higher than that.

Truth is, if you have good industrial design, a case 2-3x thicker than an ultrabook can be made to look compact, good, and modern.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 03 May 2021, 23:55:29
Yeah, Thinkpad keyboards have really gone downhill too. Ten years ago they were better, and fifteen they were good.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Mon, 03 May 2021, 23:56:54
The original Macbook Air in some ways was a real curse. Like you really need to stick a laptop in an envelope?

I don't need to stick a laptop beside my other envelopes and carry it like paper in a briefcase most of the time, it's impractical.

If they had just focused on weight reduction, while keeping thickness reasonable, it would have been fine. Same footprint on a desk/tray.

Having 'slim/light' internals in a thicker case would allow much more space for repairability and cooling, two major problems today. Form over function has gone too far with laptops, and it's caused a keyboard apocalypse. Even Thinkpads down to 1.5mm travel instead of 1.8mm, and it used to be higher than that.

Truth is, if you have good industrial design, a case 2-3x thicker than an ultrabook can be made to look compact, good, and modern.
Agreed, although now, the og macbook would probably be considered kinda thick now. Although I really hated the weird ass cheese wedge shape that I think it had as well as it being very very hot.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Tue, 04 May 2021, 09:32:38
12.- There should be a way to buy quality discrete rubber domes for a fair price, I would gladly pay $10 for a pack of 110 new NMB level rubber domes.
These things are made by millions, how is it that nobody sells them at non bulk quantities and I'm not interested in topre style rubber domes, those are way too expensive.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Tue, 04 May 2021, 09:44:44
Agreed, although now, the og macbook would probably be considered kinda thick now. Although I really hated the weird ass cheese wedge shape that I think it had as well as it being very very hot.

Wasn't the original Macbook the one that was so bad at heat management that the exhaust fans would blow hot air directly onto the glue holding the 2 parts of the monitor together, melting the glue and ruining your monitor? Or was that a later one? Honestly don't remember.

12.- There should be a way to buy quality discrete rubber domes for a fair price, I would gladly pay $10 for a pack of 110 new NMB level rubber domes.
These things are made by millions, how is it that nobody sells them at non bulk quantities and I'm not interested in topre style rubber domes, those are way too expensive.

I think the problem with that is the way that rubber domes / membranes work compared to mechanical switches. It's not separate things with a membrane, it's one capacitive whole with a mat of rubber domes laid over. So the only way to build or repair most membrane keyboards is to go out of your way to get replacement parts for the whole over getting individual switches, not to mention the different way the keycaps are mounted compared to mechanicals. It just isn't practical to sell those parts unless you're selling them to a manufacturer or something like that because almost no one is going to want to open up their $15 keyboard to fix messed up domes or a bad membrane when they could just recycle the thing and pay another $15 for the same keyboard, and the enthusiasts are so much more obsessed with topre or mechanicals that selling the stuff to make or repair a membrane keyboard on their own would be selling product to a small percentage of an already fairly small community and likely wouldn't justify the extra marketing, packaging, or manufacturing costs compared to just shipping out the membrane keebs themselves and letting any interested enthusiasts just tear them apart if they really want something from the internals.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 04 May 2021, 10:07:37
Yeah, Thinkpad keyboards have really gone downhill too. Ten years ago they were better, and fifteen they were good.

Tp4 still uses x220, buh.... the new island ones are OK, not horrible. some of the layout arn't as good, but feels is aight.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Tue, 04 May 2021, 10:09:01
Agreed, although now, the og macbook would probably be considered kinda thick now. Although I really hated the weird ass cheese wedge shape that I think it had as well as it being very very hot.

Wasn't the original Macbook the one that was so bad at heat management that the exhaust fans would blow hot air directly onto the glue holding the 2 parts of the monitor together, melting the glue and ruining your monitor? Or was that a later one? Honestly don't remember.

12.- There should be a way to buy quality discrete rubber domes for a fair price, I would gladly pay $10 for a pack of 110 new NMB level rubber domes.
These things are made by millions, how is it that nobody sells them at non bulk quantities and I'm not interested in topre style rubber domes, those are way too expensive.

I think the problem with that is the way that rubber domes / membranes work compared to mechanical switches. It's not separate things with a membrane, it's one capacitive whole with a mat of rubber domes laid over. So the only way to build or repair most membrane keyboards is to go out of your way to get replacement parts for the whole over getting individual switches, not to mention the different way the keycaps are mounted compared to mechanicals. It just isn't practical to sell those parts unless you're selling them to a manufacturer or something like that because almost no one is going to want to open up their $15 keyboard to fix messed up domes or a bad membrane when they could just recycle the thing and pay another $15 for the same keyboard, and the enthusiasts are so much more obsessed with topre or mechanicals that selling the stuff to make or repair a membrane keyboard on their own would be selling product to a small percentage of an already fairly small community and likely wouldn't justify the extra marketing, packaging, or manufacturing costs compared to just shipping out the membrane keebs themselves and letting any interested enthusiasts just tear them apart if they really want something from the internals.

Yeah, that's thew sad truth, have you tried the green domes present in some Compaq keyboards? those are fantastic.
They also made a gray variant in some Digital keyboards that is also very good, I was able to type super fast in those
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Tue, 04 May 2021, 10:12:17
13.- PCB mounted Costar stabilizers should be a thing
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Wed, 05 May 2021, 02:28:11
12.- There should be a way to buy quality discrete rubber domes for a fair price, I would gladly pay $10 for a pack of 110 new NMB level rubber domes.
These things are made by millions, how is it that nobody sells them at non bulk quantities and I'm not interested in topre style rubber domes, those are way too expensive.
if i recall correctly alps tried the discreet rubber dome switch thing, but from chyros's review they were pretty bad, soo maybe do not go to buy some right now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Wed, 05 May 2021, 08:15:07
My bad, I meant discrete rubber domes as not a single sheet with domes integrated. Puting domes in an enclosure limits the travel distance and it's not a good idea overall
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 05 May 2021, 10:56:57
And yes, Mac keyboards are terrible, but not as terrible as their mice! You've really done a number on your customers when they accept dragging a symmetrical, unergonomic rock with only one button and no wheel around a desk as desirable. How that company became associated with good design in the public imagination is a real failure of the public imagination. Their OS has some idiotic design decisions in it too. I worked as a graphic designer for many years, surrounded by Macs, and I was the only one in the office who refused to use any of the Mac peripherals. Though I'll admit that when I opened up one of the Macs one day to check some faulty RAM, it almost took my breath away. Compared to the ugly and haphazard mess inside most PCs, the inside of the Mac was almost like a work of art. Apple certainly know how to do form well. Just not necessarily function.

I hate everything about that company, including their aesthetic tastes (with a few exceptions). It is like they intentionally try to make everything as useless/lacking in user-friendliness as possible but convince everyone that they're the most user-friendly option somehow anyway ... as a joke, and then charge you an extra 50% for the Apple logo and infuriating ecosystem on top of it.

13.- PCB mounted Costar stabilizers should be a thing

Long live Costar stabilizers. I wish they were more common. There's no reason to have anything else with clicky switches. They feel and sound so much better to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Wed, 05 May 2021, 11:15:53
I hate everything about that company, including their aesthetic tastes (with a few exceptions). It is like they intentionally try to make everything as useless/lacking in user-friendliness as possible but convince everyone that they're the most user-friendly option somehow anyway ... as a joke, and then charge you an extra 50% for the Apple logo and infuriating ecosystem on top of it.

I agree with a lot here. And I could kinda deal with that if it weren't for 2 things: The elitism associated with their damn products (you would not believe how much bs I've gotten from Apple fans for daring to use an Android phone. Not even kidding), and the fact that they actively lobby against Right to Repair laws. They actively push to make it so that the only way to get an Apple product repaired legally is to take it to an Apple store. It's literally the same as saying that if you were to take your new car to a third-party mechanic to get an oil change, and you lost your warranty and all that because you didn't take it to the dealership you bought it from, who would've told you to buy a new car instead claiming it as the cheaper option. That's not even a big exaggeration. I know someone who was told that since their display wasn't working on their Macbook the Apple employees told them just to buy a new Macbook for a massive amount of money... And when they asked a third-party technician they knew, the issue was a loose backlight cable. An issue so trivial to fix that the technician told them they wouldn't charge them for the repair, because it was 5 minutes to diagnose the issue, open up the laptop, and get one loose cable plugged back in before closing it back up.

Yeah, I really dislike Apple. They push their minimalism so hard they want the market to be minimalist too. Give me a keyboard I've built, a mouse I've chosen, and a PC I've built any day over a waste of silicon so thorough they get by on reputation alone.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: andresteare on Wed, 05 May 2021, 11:29:47
I hate everything about that company, including their aesthetic tastes (with a few exceptions). It is like they intentionally try to make everything as useless/lacking in user-friendliness as possible but convince everyone that they're the most user-friendly option somehow anyway ... as a joke, and then charge you an extra 50% for the Apple logo and infuriating ecosystem on top of it.

I agree with a lot here. And I could kinda deal with that if it weren't for 2 things: The elitism associated with their damn products (you would not believe how much bs I've gotten from Apple fans for daring to use an Android phone. Not even kidding), and the fact that they actively lobby against Right to Repair laws. They actively push to make it so that the only way to get an Apple product repaired legally is to take it to an Apple store. It's literally the same as saying that if you were to take your new car to a third-party mechanic to get an oil change, and you lost your warranty and all that because you didn't take it to the dealership you bought it from, who would've told you to buy a new car instead claiming it as the cheaper option. That's not even a big exaggeration. I know someone who was told that since their display wasn't working on their Macbook the Apple employees told them just to buy a new Macbook for a massive amount of money... And when they asked a third-party technician they knew, the issue was a loose backlight cable. An issue so trivial to fix that the technician told them they wouldn't charge them for the repair, because it was 5 minutes to diagnose the issue, open up the laptop, and get one loose cable plugged back in before closing it back up.

Yeah, I really dislike Apple. They push their minimalism so hard they want the market to be minimalist too. Give me a keyboard I've built, a mouse I've chosen, and a PC I've built any day over a waste of silicon so thorough they get by on reputation alone.

We're getting a little off topic here
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 05 May 2021, 12:48:19
I hate everything about that company, including their aesthetic tastes (with a few exceptions). It is like they intentionally try to make everything as useless/lacking in user-friendliness as possible but convince everyone that they're the most user-friendly option somehow anyway ... as a joke, and then charge you an extra 50% for the Apple logo and infuriating ecosystem on top of it.

I agree with a lot here. And I could kinda deal with that if it weren't for 2 things: The elitism associated with their damn products (you would not believe how much bs I've gotten from Apple fans for daring to use an Android phone. Not even kidding)

I would believe it, because I have heard the same for years. I was hearing it from other kids in high school before the iPhone even existed about Apple computers in general.

I know someone who was told that since their display wasn't working on their Macbook the Apple employees told them just to buy a new Macbook for a massive amount of money... And when they asked a third-party technician they knew, the issue was a loose backlight cable. An issue so trivial to fix that the technician told them they wouldn't charge them for the repair, because it was 5 minutes to diagnose the issue, open up the laptop, and get one loose cable plugged back in before closing it back up.

I have done similar "repairs" for people in the same sort of scenario. That's just the tip of the iceberg. They use hardware ID numbers in their config files to prevent upgrades on older systems, regardless of their capabilities, in order to try to force you into buying new hardware instead. I think some of it comes down to laziness, since their driver support has always been horrendous even on the latest version of OSX/macOS, but a lot of it is just to keep the gravy train rolling.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Thu, 06 May 2021, 01:17:49
13.- PCB mounted Costar stabilizers should be a thing

They are a thing, I have a set ;)

No idea where to get them new, but, you can find them on some vintage boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AstralYT on Thu, 06 May 2021, 07:08:22
I prefer 60% over 65%, because symmetry. Mods should be the outermost keys ending with a blocker/edge, 65% and 75% break that rule. Exploded 65% and 75% do look better, but still no symmetry and horrible bezel layout. Only the exploded Compact 1800s look nice.

I would go 60% always. I always use caps+IJKL  for arrows. If not that, I'll just go TKL.

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 07 May 2021, 05:28:12

I miss my thumb trackball

(http://i.imgur.com/kyitHpc.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 07 May 2021, 09:05:39

I miss my thumb trackball

Why don't you get another one? Focus dome with slider feels pretty nice in my opinion. I found one of that exact board, under a different brand name, at a recycling facility. I didn't pay a whole lot for it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Fri, 07 May 2021, 10:16:24

I miss my thumb trackball

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kyitHpc.jpg)





I wonder why this type of input solution that is all-inclusive did not succeed in the market.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Fri, 07 May 2021, 10:48:37
I wonder why this type of input solution that is all-inclusive did not succeed in the market.

My personal thoughts boil down to mice having been made first, they tend to be a bit more accurate than trackballs - which is important when considering computers were mainly invented for business purposes, and efficiency trumps all in business settings most of the time - mice being cheaper to produce and easier to maintain, and, finally, because of simple ableism. Doesn't matter that the default isn't all-inclusive when the majority can use it just fine, at least in the eyes of the people at the time the mouse became the dominant input method. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 07 May 2021, 19:26:11

I miss my thumb trackball

Why don't you get another one? Focus dome with slider feels pretty nice in my opinion. I found one of that exact board, under a different brand name, at a recycling facility. I didn't pay a whole lot for it.

I haven't found any made like that recently.  The keyboard is so old it uses an AT style keyboard connector.  I got it from an electronics overstock site in 2001 and used it until 2006 when the machine it was connected to croaked. 


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 07 May 2021, 19:36:51
My personal thoughts boil down to mice having been made first, they tend to be a bit more accurate than trackballs

There are two giant things I prefer about trackballs.  First is when you let go of the ball or push the buttons the cursor stays on the exact pixel where you left it.  The cursor will not move again until you touch the ball again.  With mice the cursor is always moving at least a hair.  The second is that the unit is stationary.  Then THIS particular trackball has a third wonderful property which is the ultimate WIN, in that you don't even need to take your fingers off the home row to operate this keyboard's trackball and its buttons.  It was a really efficient device for my purposes. 

The downside to trackballs (and trackpoints and touchpads) is that they don't do high dynamic range movements very well - particularly for gaming purposes.

Mice have always been an ergonomic disaster, but unfortunately we're stuck with them for the most part. 

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Cosmin on Sat, 08 May 2021, 04:19:02
when you let go of the ball or push the buttons the cursor stays on the exact pixel where you left it.  The cursor will not move again until you touch the ball again.  With mice the cursor is always moving at least a hair.
Honestly I think you have been using really really really bad mice or there's an underlying issue that affects you (slightly moving the mouse when clicking). The former is easily solvable by getting a flawless mouse (https://sensor.fyi/mice/), the latter is more a practice thing with reasonable settings of the mouse (disable acceleration, use reasonable DPI, etc) and yourself (e.g. a lot of inexperienced drivers move the steering wheel when shifting gears).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 10 May 2021, 04:36:38
I miss my thumb trackball
Why don't you get another one? Focus dome with slider feels pretty nice in my opinion. I found one of that exact board, under a different brand name, at a recycling facility. I didn't pay a whole lot for it.
I haven't found any made like that recently.  The keyboard is so old it uses an AT style keyboard connector.  I got it from an electronics overstock site in 2001 and used it until 2006 when the machine it was connected to croaked. 
i have the bigger FK9200 connected to my laptop thought a cheap (2USD) dual connector blue convertor, works perfectly well
I miss my thumb trackball
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kyitHpc.jpg)

I wonder why this type of input solution that is all-inclusive did not succeed in the market.
well for that one there is the issue of quality, being a Focus board, the ring around the trackball on mine makes the ball and buttons bind badly, and the clock drift pretty badly, and the placement of the trackball prevent the spacebar from being properly stabilized, i think having it up top like IBM did was a better idea in my opinion.
and i think those never really caught up because the market for trackball is small, mice and trackpads are much more popular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Mon, 10 May 2021, 21:35:06
I miss my thumb trackball
Why don't you get another one? Focus dome with slider feels pretty nice in my opinion. I found one of that exact board, under a different brand name, at a recycling facility. I didn't pay a whole lot for it.
I haven't found any made like that recently.  The keyboard is so old it uses an AT style keyboard connector.  I got it from an electronics overstock site in 2001 and used it until 2006 when the machine it was connected to croaked. 
i have the bigger FK9200 connected to my laptop thought a cheap (2USD) dual connector blue convertor, works perfectly well
I miss my thumb trackball
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kyitHpc.jpg)

I wonder why this type of input solution that is all-inclusive did not succeed in the market.
well for that one there is the issue of quality, being a Focus board, the ring around the trackball on mine makes the ball and buttons bind badly, and the clock drift pretty badly, and the placement of the trackball prevent the spacebar from being properly stabilized, i think having it up top like IBM did was a better idea in my opinion.
and i think those never really caught up because the market for trackball is small, mice and trackpads are much more popular.
Interestingly, I did find this:
Perixx PERIBOARD-509H
Not to my liking, but maybe to yours.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: quasistellar on Tue, 11 May 2021, 10:43:38
Laptop keyboards used to be decent, even for what they are. Modern laptops are too thin. There's no reason for them to be razor thin. They should be thick enough for both a mechanical keyboard and for more powerful and/or configurable hardware with better cooling. Outside of cheap Atom and Celeron systems, there should not be BGA CPUs that cannot be upgraded without specialized tools, or a lack of DIMM slots for memory upgrades, or any reliance on EMMC without the option for SATA or PCIe storage.

I'm also the kind of guy that won't touch a phone with no 3.5mm headphone jack, micro SD card slot and removable battery though either.

Heavily agreed.

My most recent laptop purchase was to secure a Thinkpad before they totally dropped the concept of a built in NIC and removable batteries (what sort of totally crap laptop designer thought it would be acceptable not to have external batteries).

Same with phones- there is huge marketing effort into pushing thin phones, but the first thing most people do is put them into chunky cases because a slick aluminium shell 3mm wide is too easy to drop.

My favorite phone ever was the Motorola Droid Turbo with the ballistic nylon.  Had a convex back that had nice texture and just fit great into my hand.  I never once put a case on it.  New phones REQUIRE cases because they're too thin and too slippery.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 11 May 2021, 12:56:54

I miss my thumb trackball

Why don't you get another one? Focus dome with slider feels pretty nice in my opinion. I found one of that exact board, under a different brand name, at a recycling facility. I didn't pay a whole lot for it.

I haven't found any made like that recently.  The keyboard is so old it uses an AT style keyboard connector.  I got it from an electronics overstock site in 2001 and used it until 2006 when the machine it was connected to croaked.

Did you get rid of the board then? I would use one of those old Focus boards over anything MX-derived I have tried. I think I have more boards with AT connectors than USB and PS/2 combined.  ;D

Interestingly, I did find this:
Perixx PERIBOARD-509H
Not to my liking, but maybe to yours.

Scissor switches ruin any merit it could have otherwise had in my mind. Perixx does have some cool stuff otherwise. I think I have a similar board from them but with no integrated second input device.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 11 May 2021, 16:21:30

Did you get rid of the board then? I would use one of those old Focus boards over anything MX-derived I have tried. I think I have more boards with AT connectors than USB and PS/2 combined.  ;D


It's still on a shelf in my office at work, and dirtier than I expected.  It would need an epic deep cleaning, and some sort of AT-to-USB adapter to use it.  I took that photo just a few months back when I first found this forum.  I never thought the keyboard itself was super special, aside from the well placed trackball.  I also used a couple Model M with Trackpoints at the same time, scored off eBay cheap during the Dot-Bomb. 

Funny thing about the AT connector is that I accidentally blew out the PS/2 port on the motherboard the Focus was attached to 20 years ago, so I used an AT-to-serial adapter to use it from the serial port.

edit: thinking about that for a minute keyboard on serial port doesn't sound quite right, but the keyboard has the AT/serial connectors and I know I blew out one of the PS/2 ports on the motherboard and I had to patch around it.  I'll have to look at it again 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 11 May 2021, 17:21:41

Did you get rid of the board then? I would use one of those old Focus boards over anything MX-derived I have tried. I think I have more boards with AT connectors than USB and PS/2 combined.  ;D


It's still on a shelf in my office at work, and dirtier than I expected.  It would need an epic deep cleaning, and some sort of AT-to-USB adapter to use it.  I took that photo just a few months back when I first found this forum.  I never thought the keyboard itself was super special, aside from the well placed trackball.  I also used a couple Model M with Trackpoints at the same time, scored off eBay cheap during the Dot-Bomb. 

Funny thing about the AT connector is that I accidentally blew out the PS/2 port on the motherboard the Focus was attached to 20 years ago, so I used an AT-to-serial adapter to use it from the serial port.

I have, after much fighting with the Windows registry, drivers and BIOSes, used passive AT to PS/2 adapters with F AT boards, since most motherboards I have around have PS/2 connectors. I gave up on that struggle fast though. I use too many computers and too few of them run primarily Linux or Windows XP (or older), which have much better support out of the box.

I don't think Focus dome with slider boards are super special to anybody that hasn't tried them and particularly liked them, the number of which must be close to 0. Even Chyros seemed to pan them in his video review. In the board I have, they seem pretty similar to me to Fujitsu Peerless ... which is itself either loved or hated. I like both.

When you've got one video on Youtube being practically the only reason anybody has ever even heard of them, and that video says that they tried to do what Peerless did but failed, there's not going to be much demand for them. lol

You should dust it off and compare it to some more common boards you've discovered since you abandoned it.

I have some computers with serial. I think a lot of POS systems still have it baked into the stock I/O. That would be an amusingly pointless thing to do.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Tue, 11 May 2021, 18:20:29
I wonder why this type of input solution that is all-inclusive did not succeed in the market.

My personal thoughts boil down to mice having been made first, they tend to be a bit more accurate than trackballs - which is important when considering computers were mainly invented for business purposes, and efficiency trumps all in business settings most of the time - mice being cheaper to produce and easier to maintain, and, finally, because of simple ableism. Doesn't matter that the default isn't all-inclusive when the majority can use it just fine, at least in the eyes of the people at the time the mouse became the dominant input method. :rolleyes:


It sounds that you nailed it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Snowdog993 on Tue, 11 May 2021, 18:27:52
Scissor switches ruin any merit it could have otherwise had in my mind. Perixx does have some cool stuff otherwise. I think I have a similar board from them but with no integrated second input device.

Maybe a Kensington Trackball (like the blade or similar) or an arcade trackball that is PS/2 compatible? I don't know what else to suggest for you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 17 May 2021, 02:44:16
Scissor switches ruin any merit it could have otherwise had in my mind. Perixx does have some cool stuff otherwise. I think I have a similar board from them but with no integrated second input device.

Maybe a Kensington Trackball (like the blade or similar) or an arcade trackball that is PS/2 compatible? I don't know what else to suggest for you.
before finding out about the FK9200 i was planning on modding an old unicomp PC122 with an arcade trackball, an integrated hasu converter and usb hub, but then i discovered the focus and kinda abandoned the project.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 19 May 2021, 12:05:36
Scissor switches ruin any merit it could have otherwise had in my mind. Perixx does have some cool stuff otherwise. I think I have a similar board from them but with no integrated second input device.

Maybe a Kensington Trackball (like the blade or similar) or an arcade trackball that is PS/2 compatible? I don't know what else to suggest for you.
before finding out about the FK9200 i was planning on modding an old unicomp PC122 with an arcade trackball, an integrated hasu converter and usb hub, but then i discovered the focus and kinda abandoned the project.

Those Focus boards are really a hidden gem if you ask me. I only even saved it from the scrap pile because I thought the caps might fit Alps (they don't).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 19 May 2021, 13:44:59
Labeled Caps are n00b caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 19 May 2021, 17:39:42
Labeled Caps are n00b caps.

Is that unpopular?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Thu, 20 May 2021, 01:40:03
Labeled Caps are n00b caps.
yeah but they look better in my opinion, and it is much fun to see someone trying to use your pc with a layout that does not adhere to what is written on the keys :) (for context at work my physical boards are ISO-PT and ISO-FR while my software layout is US-INTL :))
although i feel that for TP4 others using his keyboard is not a possibility :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 20 May 2021, 05:20:29
Labeled Caps are n00b caps.
yeah but they look better in my opinion, and it is much fun to see someone trying to use your pc with a layout that does not adhere to what is written on the keys :) (for context at work my physical boards are ISO-PT and ISO-FR while my software layout is US-INTL :))
although i feel that for TP4 others using his keyboard is not a possibility :)

3D cekmate
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Sat, 05 June 2021, 21:18:35
Keyboard users (not here but in general) don't know how the hell to describe switch feel
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Sat, 05 June 2021, 22:37:01
Keyboard users (not here but in general) don't know how the hell to describe switch feel
This MX blue is very linear and smooth
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: devo343 on Sun, 06 June 2021, 14:19:41
I hate RGB on keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 06 June 2021, 17:43:39
RGB is great, but only if you choose one static colour across the keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Mon, 07 June 2021, 04:29:35
It might be just me, but I honestly feel like I'm being gaslit half the time I visit the interest check forum. Page after page of the same generic-looking boxy keyboards or bog standard cherry profile keycaps in a slightly different shade of grey. I can't tell the latest one apart from the last 4 I viewed, and then hordes of people come tripping over each other to declare that it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen.  :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Mon, 07 June 2021, 05:16:51
It might be just me, but I honestly feel like I'm being gaslit half the time I visit the interest check forum. Page after page of the same generic-looking boxy keyboards or bog standard cherry profile keycaps in a slightly different shade of grey. I can't tell the latest one apart from the last 4 I viewed, and then hordes of people come tripping over each other to declare that it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen.  :confused:
You're not the only one. Few sets stand out for me.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Arch4Life on Mon, 07 June 2021, 05:18:21
It might be just me, but I honestly feel like I'm being gaslit half the time I visit the interest check forum. Page after page of the same generic-looking boxy keyboards or bog standard cherry profile keycaps in a slightly different shade of grey. I can't tell the latest one apart from the last 4 I viewed, and then hordes of people come tripping over each other to declare that it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen.  :confused:
me too mate, me too

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Mon, 07 June 2021, 08:29:18
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Mon, 07 June 2021, 08:34:33
It might be just me, but I honestly feel like I'm being gaslit half the time I visit the interest check forum. Page after page of the same generic-looking boxy keyboards or bog standard cherry profile keycaps in a slightly different shade of grey. I can't tell the latest one apart from the last 4 I viewed, and then hordes of people come tripping over each other to declare that it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen.  :confused:

Glad to know it's not just me. I thought it might be since I'm only recently diving in and was just overwhelming myself, but I've noticed the same as well - a lot of keyboard and keyset designs really aren't that interesting. Varying shades of grey with the text in the upper left corner or tan with grey & orange modifiers and centered text using the same font plugged into a rectangle with a 5deg typing angle and a USB hole in the back...and together they cost $4-600+. I spent so long looking at keyboards the other night that I got excited over a center-mount USB-C port just because it was the most different design feature I'd seen in hours. :confused:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Mon, 07 June 2021, 20:18:14
  • People that hit the spacebar with their finger instead of their thumb are wrong.
  • BOW/WOB doesn't make your keyboard look "clean" or "classy," it makes your keyboard look like a storebought Dell.
  • Hirigana/katakana/other languages on your keyset when you aren't actually using them for that language are a trashy gimmick that just makes you look like an unironic weeb.
You will probably find it funny to know that Japanese people don't actually use JP sub-legends at all, they use English, learned that after making a suprise board for a Japanese friend.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 07 June 2021, 20:31:16
It might be just me, but I honestly feel like I'm being gaslit half the time I visit the interest check forum. Page after page of the same generic-looking boxy keyboards or bog standard cherry profile keycaps in a slightly different shade of grey. I can't tell the latest one apart from the last 4 I viewed, and then hordes of people come tripping over each other to declare that it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen.  :confused:

I wish there was a way to block out the IC forum when hitting the Unread Posts button. It's by far the noisiest sub on the forum, and yes, it's full of generically indistinguishable cases that people are gushing over in the most embarrassingly semi-literate way possible- half the posts could be bots.

It's ironic, people are too excited by keyboard renders to be able to type properly... or in many cases even to type a complete sentence.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Mon, 07 June 2021, 20:38:23
You will probably find it funny to know that Japanese people don't actually use JP sub-legends at all, they use English, learned that after making a suprise board for a Japanese friend.

so my choices are intentional weeb or unintentional weeb? dang, i really like wapuro and modern ink and now i have to reconsider. this hobby is so confusing!

where do cyrillics fit in? bc i really like taiga, too.

tl/dr: buy dots or blanks! oh wait, that was covered, too  :-[
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Mon, 07 June 2021, 21:29:27
  • Hirigana/katakana/other languages on your keyset when you aren't actually using them for that language are a trashy gimmick that just makes you look like an unironic weeb.

I am an unironic weeb.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: F eq ma on Mon, 07 June 2021, 22:42:21
The real hidden art in the keyboard community is not key switches or keycaps or even the cases with the deepest thocks.   The art is the cheapest aspect of the whole endeavor …. the QMK customs that people design.    There is beauty in the custom firmware. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Tue, 08 June 2021, 00:15:45
The real hidden art in the keyboard community is not key switches or keycaps or even the cases with the deepest thocks.   The art is the cheapest aspect of the whole endeavor …. the QMK customs that people design.    There is beauty in the custom firmware.

I can't code at all (yet) but I do enjoy seeing the results of what people build. I'll 100% agree with you on this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Learis on Thu, 10 June 2021, 15:48:57
  • Hirigana/katakana/other languages on your keyset when you aren't actually using them for that language are a trashy gimmick that just makes you look like an unironic weeb.

I am an unironic weeb.

If ironic is like rain on your wedding day, then it's better to be unironic than ironic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sintpinty on Thu, 10 June 2021, 22:04:22
Keyboard users (not here but in general) don't know how the hell to describe switch feel
This MX blue is very linear and smooth

It's my favourite switch besides razer greens (kahil era).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fairypenguin on Mon, 21 June 2021, 18:21:23
1. The world doesn't need any more cyberpunk or black-and-white keycap sets.

2. People wearing sweaters and lots of rings in sound test videos in an attempt to emulate Taeha feels corny.

3. There is no rational reason to spend more than $400 maximum on a mechanical keyboard.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kikomir on Tue, 22 June 2021, 08:36:06
- Group Buys, as a form of sale/ordering, need to die in a fire. Waiting for 1-2 years for a product you pay today is absurd and it makes this hobby incredibly unrewarding. And it's a scummy practice. We need to actively boycott group buys.
- Split, ergo, sub-60% sizes, dvorak, colemak, ortho and other obscure layouts/setups are absolutely an unnecessary gimmick for most people, obviously except a tiny minority for whom it makes sense. If the good ol' reliable staggered qwerty works for almost all of the people around the world, don't try to sell me a quirky layout as the best thing since sliced bread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: azzipa on Tue, 22 June 2021, 08:39:55
strong first entry, wtg!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Tue, 22 June 2021, 09:40:05
- Group Buys, as a form of sale/ordering, need to die in a fire. Waiting for 1-2 years for a product you pay today is absurd and it makes this hobby incredibly unrewarding. And it's a scummy practice. We need to actively boycott group buys.

Legitimately curious - what do you think is the alternative?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Tue, 22 June 2021, 10:05:24
Legitimately curious - what do you think is the alternative?

This talk has been had many times, as of now there is no good way to do this.
Hobby is still small, most group buys are run by small teams of designer so no chance of in-stock their unless they are omega-rich. Big vendors can do instock buys, but again, big vendor, usually will not work with smaller designers for their smaller projects.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Tue, 22 June 2021, 11:46:21
- Group Buys, as a form of sale/ordering, need to die in a fire. Waiting for 1-2 years for a product you pay today is absurd and it makes this hobby incredibly unrewarding. And it's a scummy practice. We need to actively boycott group buys.
- Split, ergo, sub-60% sizes, dvorak, colemak, ortho and other obscure layouts/setups are absolutely an unnecessary gimmick for most people, obviously except a tiny minority for whom it makes sense. If the good ol' reliable staggered qwerty works for almost all of the people around the world, don't try to sell me a quirky layout as the best thing since sliced bread.

These two points are connected; group buys exist to fund projects that only a handful of weirdos care about.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Tue, 22 June 2021, 11:50:35
This talk has been had many times, as of now there is no good way to do this.
Hobby is still small, most group buys are run by small teams of designer so no chance of in-stock their unless they are omega-rich. Big vendors can do instock buys, but again, big vendor, usually will not work with smaller designers for their smaller projects.

That's kinda what I figured. Too new here to have caught the previous talks on it, but I wasn't able to really think of another way to do it either, especially since IC's aren't a guarantee of purchase for manufacturers to base their time and equipment on.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Tue, 22 June 2021, 12:15:30
This talk has been had many times, as of now there is no good way to do this.
Hobby is still small, most group buys are run by small teams of designer so no chance of in-stock their unless they are omega-rich. Big vendors can do instock buys, but again, big vendor, usually will not work with smaller designers for their smaller projects.

Agreed. Only way that this hobby could possibly move away from the GB model is if it suddenly had a massive influx of people interested in it, on a fairly large scale that we're likely never to see. At least to the level that larger companies would see some form of profit from keeping keyboard-hobby related products in stock constantly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: F eq ma on Tue, 22 June 2021, 18:38:17
This talk has been had many times, as of now there is no good way to do this.
Hobby is still small, most group buys are run by small teams of designer so no chance of in-stock their unless they are omega-rich. Big vendors can do instock buys, but again, big vendor, usually will not work with smaller designers for their smaller projects.

Agreed. Only way that this hobby could possibly move away from the GB model is if it suddenly had a massive influx of people interested in it, on a fairly large scale that we're likely never to see. At least to the level that larger companies would see some form of profit from keeping keyboard-hobby related products in stock constantly.

I have no practical experience, so this maybe just a bunch of BS, plus my thought process is all over the place.  I apologize.

A good industry standard for pcb to case integration would help minimize the group buy requirements.   Think how the MX standard has helped.   When you can find keycaps available, you are almost guaranteed they will fit any board.  Open source projects excite me.   Something about taking an open source pcb and do my own small run fabrication is great.   Problem is finding a good case that fits.   Mix and match so to speak.

It takes huge time investments with the open source route as well.   The designers need a way to monetize their effort.  Tricky balancing act.

Now if the open source concept could happen for cases besides the swillb stack template, then that may open up options.  I think the ergo builds with home 3d printers have promise as a roadmap.   Weight always feel like a better quality, but I have heard that non-metal cases may provide better sounds…. How to make a 3D printer output feel more luxurious?  Sanding smooth?   Adding slots for fixed weights for added heft?  Not sure.

Think how revolutionary getting GMK quality keycaps at home with a 3D printer would be.

Can’t wait to get my first aluminum case to see what the hubbub is about.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Tue, 22 June 2021, 18:50:28
A good industry standard for pcb to case integration would help minimize the group buy requirements.   Think how the MX standard has helped.   When you can find keycaps available, you are almost guaranteed they will fit any board.  Open source projects excite me.   Something about taking an open source pcb and do my own small run fabrication is great.   Problem is finding a good case that fits.   Mix and match so to speak.

Some standards already exist like universal plates and people designing boards around already made pcbs like ones made by hiney or hadi, but due to the large amount of layouts, styles people want, it’s really hard to have anything standard.

For example location of a daughter board breakout could be wildly different between layouts and pcbs for optimization, ie where you want the usb, where you have routing so you want to place the connector in an open place


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: elderbong on Wed, 23 June 2021, 16:17:47
RGB is great, but only if you choose one static colour across the keyboard.

Agreed, but with one caveat: a tasteful gradient can be nice
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Wed, 23 June 2021, 16:56:24
RGB is great, but only if you choose one static colour across the keyboard.

Agreed, but with one caveat: a tasteful gradient can be nice

I have a second caveat to add on top of that one: RGB can be very nice when it is coordinated with the whole of a setup. Not just a "I have my other lights this color, all my stuff should be this color!" but more of an actual design choice that is coordinated with other parts of the desk. Even with things that change colors, if it does so between a limited range to keep with the color scheme used by the person in question.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Meijboom on Thu, 24 June 2021, 14:59:02
I love the 2016 Macbook Pro's  butterfly keyboard. My WPM are a bit higher then my mechs with the super low travel, and big keycaps. I still love my mech's tho
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 24 June 2021, 20:24:56
I love the 2016 Macbook Pro's  butterfly keyboard. My WPM are a bit higher then my mechs with the super low travel, and big keycaps. I still love my mech's tho

 actually a more popular opinion than you'd think, there's some solid scissor switches out there. they do get fatiguing if you're on it for too long though
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Fri, 25 June 2021, 12:41:27
Group Buys only suck for mech keyboards because all the manufacturers are backed up. If anything, more products should shift towards being group buys, so as to avoid overproduction and waste.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Fri, 25 June 2021, 14:39:15
Group Buys only suck for mech keyboards because all the manufacturers are backed up. If anything, more products should shift towards being group buys, so as to avoid overproduction and waste.

Honestly, I agree, especially for smaller businesses. Made-to-order is a lot less wasteful as well. Definitely not going to be possible with a lot of products, though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 25 June 2021, 19:31:23
I love the 2016 Macbook Pro's  butterfly keyboard. My WPM are a bit higher then my mechs with the super low travel, and big keycaps. I still love my mech's tho

I like the Apple Aluminium keyboard (full size version), especially the little electric shock I get each time I touch it!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chadrezzar on Fri, 25 June 2021, 21:49:53
1. Pom blanks are the superior keycaps. Durable and no possible issues with legend centering/legend quality.
2. They are extremely overpriced unless you get them from taobao directly and either get lucky&don't get a warped spacebar/unwarp it yourself
3. Silent switches are superior. No issues with thock/thack or clack or any of that, you just try to get them as quiet as possible and thats all  :))

Lastly I'm hoping for a market switch in the customs scene from MX to mechically better designed switches such as optical or hall effect ones(lekker switches). You get lower input delays&smoother switches with adjustable actuation points... And from the prices on the boards that I've seen using them somehow these high tech switches are cheaper than you'd expect even though the tolerances are very tight.

Group Buys only suck for mech keyboards because all the manufacturers are backed up. If anything, more products should shift towards being group buys, so as to avoid overproduction and waste.

Whilst I think that in theory this sounds good I just foresee too many practical issues. If something went wrong in the QC department and you end up with subpar products who's going to eat the cost? It's going to be you as a customer unless you somehow manage to convince the factory in china to eat the loss.
The vast majority of things I buy are things I want now or at least asap, waiting 4/5+months on a keyboard or parts is whatever because I have something I can use in the meantime and waiting another month is at most a slight inconvenience. On the other hand if my monitor breaks I need a monitor asap, if my chair/bed/couch/kitchen/shower breaks I'm replacing that asap. The turnover time between coming up with an idea for a GB, ordering and receiving the product is so big that I don't see it catching on except for specific luxury/enthousiast grade goods that people don't necessarily mind waiting a long time for, which can also be things like a monitor/chair/couch/shower ofcourse but this will always be an extremely small part of the total market. Convience is highly valued and in the end waiting X months on anything really is simply inconvenient regardless of how much overproduction and waste you could prevent with it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 28 June 2021, 02:15:20
3. Silent switches are superior. No issues with thock/thack or clack or any of that, you just try to get them as quiet as possible and thats all  :))
I kinda agree that silent are better for linear i still like my clickies better, and silent switches can still ping, my board with gat silent reds is the pingiest thing i ever used, although that only happen with a case, without it it is less noisy than the rubber domes in the office (logitech k120 and random dell/hp boards).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Thu, 01 July 2021, 17:06:06
"Progressive" springs are not meant for tactile switches, the bump should not be weaker than the bottom out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chadrezzar on Fri, 02 July 2021, 01:11:16
I kinda agree that silent are better for linear i still like my clickies better, and silent switches can still ping, my board with gat silent reds is the pingiest thing i ever used, although that only happen with a case, without it it is less noisy than the rubber domes in the office (logitech k120 and random dell/hp boards).

Yeah ping can be a bit hard to get rid of in my opinion... I've had most luck with bobagum linears in that aspect, needed the least amount of "work" by far to get them as quiet as possible(and without frankenswitching they're significantly more quiet overall than the gateron/zeal varients in my experience)

As for clickies... eh whilst I do like the sound every now and then using them as a daily would drive me crazy  :))
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Fri, 02 July 2021, 09:02:08
I kinda agree that silent are better for linear i still like my clickies better, and silent switches can still ping, my board with gat silent reds is the pingiest thing i ever used, although that only happen with a case, without it it is less noisy than the rubber domes in the office (logitech k120 and random dell/hp boards).

Yeah ping can be a bit hard to get rid of in my opinion... I've had most luck with bobagum linears in that aspect, needed the least amount of "work" by far to get them as quiet as possible(and without frankenswitching they're significantly more quiet overall than the gateron/zeal varients in my experience)

As for clickies... eh whilst I do like the sound every now and then using them as a daily would drive me crazy  :))
The Boba silent samples I got have this somewhat sticky sound as if the top of the stem unsticks from the top housing, a bit gross to be honest, does it go away after lubing?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Ghghop on Fri, 02 July 2021, 14:53:58
1. ISO layout is objectively inferior to split-shift ANSI (**** 2.75 RShift). The constant and universal circlejerk that causes people to constantly attempt to belittle those who use ANSI was old over a decade ago. If it had any real effect the majority of base kits would come with ISO compatibility but instead ISO apologists are left whining in every single IC thread when it isn't included.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Cosmin on Sat, 03 July 2021, 14:16:45
- Group Buys, as a form of sale/ordering, need to die in a fire. Waiting for 1-2 years for a product you pay today is absurd and it makes this hobby incredibly unrewarding. And it's a scummy practice. We need to actively boycott group buys.
- Split, ergo, sub-60% sizes, dvorak, colemak, ortho and other obscure layouts/setups are absolutely an unnecessary gimmick for most people, obviously except a tiny minority for whom it makes sense. If the good ol' reliable staggered qwerty works for almost all of the people around the world, don't try to sell me a quirky layout as the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm sorry, but this is the thread for unpopular opinions. The above are quite popular opinions if you go by the numbers, just visiting r/mk gives me regular headaches with all the economists and trade experts explaining that GMK should build 5 new factories to accommodate all the people wanting in stock keycaps. Same people who when presented with the opportunity to buy a sealed GMK set at GB prices wince and go buy 30$ keycaps off Amazon because GMK is "overrated" and "overpriced". Not to mention the inevitable horde who is asking "where is windows key" or "how do you use a 40% not enuf keys" whilst typing on their 30% phone keyboard.

People use all sorts of boards, including split, ergo, vertical stagger, 40%, 60%, regular stagger and we love them all. It's why GBs exist - because corporate deemed it unprofitable to manufacture such amazing things and are happy making bank on rubber dome 104s. Please feel free to buy those, also mech prebuilts and keycaps off Aliexpress that are readily available because high end aluminium cases and high end keycaps are stuck with the GB model because people shop on Amazon, want stuff yesterday and sort by price: ascending.


And one more thing: this hobby taught me delayed gratification and overall improved my life. Because this continuous chase for having things before you even pay for them is a scourge. It ruins people and it ruins human interaction, it's all feeding the instant gratification monkey (https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html) at the cost of one's mental health and eventually sanity.


And now you're going to cry about us gatekeeping. Spoiler alert: you're gatekeeping yourself, but feel free to be salty. If you really want something, you'll wait for it to happen, doing your best in acquiring it. And when it comes to high end boards that are designed from scratch, with a LOT of work, dedication, blood, sweat and tears you have absolutely no right in deeming what we should like, use or do with our resources.

And if you really really want it, you build it yourself (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=112432.0). And you may learn a thing or two about humbleness, because you learn to design, to build, to program and to ask for help where you can't quite make it. And it is a humbling experience.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Sat, 03 July 2021, 14:48:53
Getting involved in an IC, getting to know the runner and the other people on the buy, and ****posting with them for weeks and months while you wait for your stuff is a way more fun and tolerable experience than treating GBs like retail and just ordering something and waiting. I totally get the people who complain about the GB model and GMK on r/mk, because for them it's literally just "extra slow, extra expensive Amazon/AliExpress".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chadrezzar on Sun, 04 July 2021, 17:51:02
The Boba silent samples I got have this somewhat sticky sound as if the top of the stem unsticks from the top housing, a bit gross to be honest, does it go away after lubing?
I'm not entirely sure what specific sound you're referring to so honestly I can't say. I'd say just try to lube a couple and see what the result is? Gazzew recommends just lubing the sliders so If you haven't done that I'd say give that a try.... I personally prefer them lubed on all contact points to reduce/mitigate any sort of ping and make them as smooth as possible but obviously you'll lose out on some of the tactility by doing this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 04 July 2021, 20:52:19
And now you're going to cry about us gatekeeping. Spoiler alert: you're gatekeeping yourself, but feel free to be salty. If you really want something, you'll wait for it to happen, doing your best in acquiring it. And when it comes to high end boards that are designed from scratch, with a LOT of work, dedication, blood, sweat and tears you have absolutely no right in deeming what we should like, use or do with our resources.

As an aside, is 'gatekeeping' still an internet thing? I noticed that people would occasionally throw this word around, but it's been thankfully absent from my internet browsing in the past couple years.

I understand that it is supposed to have deeper ramifications, but it seemed to invariably be a complaint raised by inexperience people who lacked knowledge or expertise, still wanted their opinions to be heard or treated as 'equal' in various internet pools. It was frequently matched with some phrasing that everyone is entitled to an opinion (apparently even when discussing technical subjects).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Sun, 04 July 2021, 21:05:32
As an aside, is 'gatekeeping' still an internet thing? I noticed that people would occasionally throw this word around, but it's been thankfully absent from my internet browsing in the past couple years.
Sounds like the gatekeepers are doing their job


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 05 July 2021, 02:05:40
And now you're going to cry about us gatekeeping. Spoiler alert: you're gatekeeping yourself, but feel free to be salty. If you really want something, you'll wait for it to happen, doing your best in acquiring it. And when it comes to high end boards that are designed from scratch, with a LOT of work, dedication, blood, sweat and tears you have absolutely no right in deeming what we should like, use or do with our resources.

As an aside, is 'gatekeeping' still an internet thing? I noticed that people would occasionally throw this word around, but it's been thankfully absent from my internet browsing in the past couple years.

I understand that it is supposed to have deeper ramifications, but it seemed to invariably be a complaint raised by inexperience people who lacked knowledge or expertise, still wanted their opinions to be heard or treated as 'equal' in various internet pools. It was frequently matched with some phrasing that everyone is entitled to an opinion (apparently even when discussing technical subjects).
there are still some peoples in some niche communities that will try to gatekeep in the original sense of the term (aka keeping new peoples out of their hobby for the sake of being special) but whenever a hobby get interest on the internet it is bound to have some helpful souls undo all the gatekeeper's work, at least that is my feeling on it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Tue, 06 July 2021, 17:04:06
As an aside, is 'gatekeeping' still an internet thing? I noticed that people would occasionally throw this word around, but it's been thankfully absent from my internet browsing in the past couple years.

I understand that it is supposed to have deeper ramifications, but it seemed to invariably be a complaint raised by inexperience people who lacked knowledge or expertise, still wanted their opinions to be heard or treated as 'equal' in various internet pools. It was frequently matched with some phrasing that everyone is entitled to an opinion (apparently even when discussing technical subjects).

Trust me, there is still a lot of gatekeeping around on the internet. Usually in video game communities, now, from what I see. I see tons of people who will, instead of saying "Oh hey a new player how about I help them!"  will instead choose to say "You're not good enough for this game, get out!"

Usually happens in games with more toxic communities, like League of Legends, Rainbow 6: Siege, and even a few strategy games I can't remember the names of. Genuinely discouraging because in those games, even when the game itself is decent, the community actively hampers its own growth by gatekeeping and bullying new players for "daring" to touch their precious consumer product in a way this slightly-more-established player doesn't like. Usually have to actively seek out the nicer parts of the communities for games like that, especially ones with a professional scene.

Honestly, I'm just glad that I don't really see any gatekeeping outside of memes in the KB community. Helps a lot in making myself and others feel welcome.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Wed, 07 July 2021, 14:06:34
As an aside, is 'gatekeeping' still an internet thing? I noticed that people would occasionally throw this word around, but it's been thankfully absent from my internet browsing in the past couple years.

I understand that it is supposed to have deeper ramifications, but it seemed to invariably be a complaint raised by inexperience people who lacked knowledge or expertise, still wanted their opinions to be heard or treated as 'equal' in various internet pools. It was frequently matched with some phrasing that everyone is entitled to an opinion (apparently even when discussing technical subjects).

Trust me, there is still a lot of gatekeeping around on the internet. Usually in video game communities, now, from what I see. I see tons of people who will, instead of saying "Oh hey a new player how about I help them!"  will instead choose to say "You're not good enough for this game, get out!"

Usually happens in games with more toxic communities, like League of Legends, Rainbow 6: Siege, and even a few strategy games I can't remember the names of. Genuinely discouraging because in those games, even when the game itself is decent, the community actively hampers its own growth by gatekeeping and bullying new players for "daring" to touch their precious consumer product in a way this slightly-more-established player doesn't like. Usually have to actively seek out the nicer parts of the communities for games like that, especially ones with a professional scene.

Honestly, I'm just glad that I don't really see any gatekeeping outside of memes in the KB community. Helps a lot in making myself and others feel welcome.
It funny how the dynamic changes with team games. In fighting games, people are always happy to get new players into a game.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Thu, 08 July 2021, 11:08:56
It funny how the dynamic changes with team games. In fighting games, people are always happy to get new players into a game.

Ohhhhh yeah. It's almost like some people don't know how to recognize when they make mistakes and blame it all on others when they can, making the toxicity come out more in team-based competitive games more than chill co-op or 1v1 games. For example, the Warframe community, the Starlords community, the Monster Hunter community, the fighting game community, and what I know of the Starcraft community all have one thing in common - the willingness to accept and assist new players instead of gatekeeping or raging at them just for not knowing the game they're new to.

Can you tell I have some left over resentment at those types of communities from when I used to play League of Legends?

In all seriousness though, I don't tend to see any gatekeeping in the KB community, which is great. Even the more joking stuff that can come off as such, or the rebuttals of points that may come off like that, you can definitely tell if you actually look at it that there is nothing more going on than pointing things out the person being responded to may not have considered, especially if they're used to hobbies with more mass market appeal, like miniature painting. The differences between this hobby, which is still fairly small even if it is growing a lot, and ones that are much more established and have a lot more money in them is not something to underestimate, but it still happens. That leads to people being misinformed, then corrected with information about how this hobby can differ from others. And while, yes, that can come off as being a bit gatekeep-y, honestly I see it as just being honest with people so they can alter their mindset and expectations regarding the hobby to fit with what it actually is rather than what it would be if it were more like other hobbies in the same vein.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CobaltSwiftpaw on Fri, 09 July 2021, 14:04:51
It might be just me, but I honestly feel like I'm being gaslit half the time I visit the interest check forum. Page after page of the same generic-looking boxy keyboards or bog standard cherry profile keycaps in a slightly different shade of grey. I can't tell the latest one apart from the last 4 I viewed, and then hordes of people come tripping over each other to declare that it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen.  :confused:

Nope, I agree. Before I knew what they were I bought a GMK clone set and while I can understand liking different colourways and all, I just don't see why people lust over a specific keycap set that hasn't been made for 2 years when there's probably a set that looks identical currently live.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Fri, 09 July 2021, 15:23:23
Nope, I agree. Before I knew what they were I bought a GMK clone set and while I can understand liking different colourways and all, I just don't see why people lust over a specific keycap set that hasn't been made for 2 years when there's probably a set that looks identical currently live.

It boils down to the same reason people will pay more for TCG cards that are foil, or from an older set in the game. That version is harder to find, and thus more valuable to collectors. For example, in Magic: The Gathering, if you get a rare card that's pretty strong from a new set, but is a reprint of that same card and effect from an older set, the versions from the older sets are going to be much more expensive, even if the existence of a reprint brings down the price of the older cards a bit, simply because the older ones are harder to find in good condition and are no longer in print the exact way it was in that original printing. The harder to find it is, the more enticing collectors find it, and the more they'll pay.

Then, when you look specifically at the market for keycaps, you have the issues of clones possibly being of lower quality, legend fading, the feel of the type of plastic used being different and not to your liking, the colors of some sets possibly not matching 100% between the normal caps and the longer keys (Different types of white between the alphanumerics and spacebar, for example. Unintentional differences, basically), quality of the printing on the legends / designs for the caps being different, legend placement, etc. There are so many variables that go into keycap design and production that, sometimes, there will be people that will say "I want this one, and will accept no substitutes," simply because they found what they like and don't want to change it if they can due to how quality and other variables can change what they enjoy about those keycaps, even with clones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: geauxflying on Sun, 11 July 2021, 08:51:36
FR4 plates are the best.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Sun, 11 July 2021, 11:35:08
FR4 plates are the best.
They are pretty nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Mon, 12 July 2021, 00:45:55
Gasket mount designs are super diverse and super finnicky, but I have no problem at all getting a tray mount to feel or sound good. I've reached the point where seeing "gasket mounted" in an IC makes me nervous.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Mon, 12 July 2021, 09:28:54
Gasket mount designs are super diverse and super finnicky, but I have no problem at all getting a tray mount to feel or sound good. I've reached the point where seeing "gasket mounted" in an IC makes me nervous.

May be slightly off topic but you seem like the person to ask - I'm looking for a tray-mount 60% case (DH60 spec (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=111735.msg3025607#msg3025607)) but the only one I know of is the Tofu60, anything else you'd recommend I look at that isn't a long-ended group buy?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Mon, 12 July 2021, 18:46:05
Gasket mount designs are super diverse and super finnicky, but I have no problem at all getting a tray mount to feel or sound good. I've reached the point where seeing "gasket mounted" in an IC makes me nervous.

May be slightly off topic but you seem like the person to ask - I'm looking for a tray-mount 60% case (DH60 spec (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=111735.msg3025607#msg3025607)) but the only one I know of is the Tofu60, anything else you'd recommend I look at that isn't a long-ended group buy?
Most 60%s stick to the Poker spec, so almost all are compatible with the DH60. I'm thinking of getting the NPKC wooden ones with the built in wristrest soon.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Ailment on Tue, 13 July 2021, 13:42:58
Blockers for the arrow cluster on 65%s are trash.... I don't want less functionality on my board and I don't need help finding/ not hitting something that is in the bottom corner of the board, lets get rid of the 1 key while we are at it so I don't hit escape.... Sorry, 65% is my preference and pretty much every one I have seen lately has no FN key on the right half.  And if you like it for aesthetics, I don't think it looks good either  ;) LOL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Thu, 22 July 2021, 20:07:11
1. Pom blanks are the superior keycaps. Durable and no possible issues with legend centering/legend quality.

Kinda like how all high-end sound systems can be so easily spoiled with inferior music CDs that run the risk of displaying distortion, overwarm bass, lack of treble clarity, artificial sounding sound stage, not to mention simply questionable musical taste. None of which should be tolerated by the discerning audiophile. That's why 9 out 10 serious audiophiles demand only the very best and most flawless experience from their hifis, and will listen only to blank CDs, after they have switched the unit off. :-X  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Thu, 22 July 2021, 20:12:20


1. Pom blanks are the superior keycaps. Durable and no possible issues with legend centering/legend quality.

No matter of concern for those who touch type.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 23 July 2021, 17:02:34
Blockers for the arrow cluster on 65%s are trash.... I don't want less functionality on my board and I don't need help finding/ not hitting something that is in the bottom corner of the board,

For this reason I don't follow custom keyboards, aside from the Boston.  "Blockers" and oversized empty bezel/border area on almost everything. 

My addition in this unpopular opinion area: artwork and fancy machining/polishing on the underside or "back" edge of the keyboard are absolutely pointless.  I'd be frustrated to pay $$$ for a fancy keyboard that has much of the fancy always hidden underneath. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tiltowait on Sat, 31 July 2021, 11:33:31
In 115 pages, I’m sure my unpopular opinions have already been said, but I’ll take a stab anyway.

1. I dislike most tactile switches where the click is an affectation and not an inherent aspect of the actuation mechanism.
2. Much like some people complain that keyboards are held back by clinging to outmoded remnants of the past (staggered rows, QWERTY layout, etc.), the same can be said for MX-style stems and switch housings.
3. (Possibly the most unpopular) There is too much choice in the market these days. It’s nearly impossible for even a very active member of the community to make a fully informed decision or offer fully informed advice. Choice paralysis is a real thing, and I know more than one person who gave up on buying a mechanical keyboard because of how many options there are.
4. Most ergonomic keyboards … aren’t. In fact, some are arguably worse in certain regards.
5. While they are undeniably massive, the height of a beamspring keyboard is a non-issue if you can adjust your seat height or desk height. If you can fit a fullsize keyboard, you are almost certainly fine with any of them save perhaps for the Displaywriter/Beamship (though they’re < 2” wider than a Model M).
6. Beamsprings are fantastic switches. But they aren’t “godly”, nor are you guaranteed to prefer them over a Model M/F. They certainly aren’t worth anywhere near $1500+. (I would know. I own one, purchased for $300 including controller.)
7. The community is too hyperbolic. Switches aren’t merely “okay”, they’re “trash”. They aren’t “preferred”, but “godly”. This goes for case designs, keycap materials, colorways, etc. etc. (And this is a complaint that could probably be leveled at society at large, not just the community.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Sat, 31 July 2021, 12:00:24
In 115 pages, I’m sure my unpopular opinions have already been said, but I’ll take a stab anyway.

1. I dislike most tactile switches where the click is an affectation and not an inherent aspect of the actuation mechanism.
2. Much like some people complain that keyboards are held back by clinging to outmoded remnants of the past (staggered rows, QWERTY layout, etc.), the same can be said for MX-style stems and switch housings.
3. (Possibly the most unpopular) There is too much choice in the market these days. It’s nearly impossible for even a very active member of the community to make a fully informed decision or offer fully informed advice. Choice paralysis is a real thing, and I know more than one person who gave up on buying a mechanical keyboard because of how many options there are.
4. Most ergonomic keyboards … aren’t. In fact, some are arguably worse in certain regards.
5. While they are undeniably massive, the height of a beamspring keyboard is a non-issue if you can adjust your seat height or desk height. If you can fit a fullsize keyboard, you are almost certainly fine with any of them save perhaps for the Displaywriter/Beamship (though they’re < 2” wider than a Model M).
6. Beamsprings are fantastic switches. But they aren’t “godly”, nor are you guaranteed to prefer them over a Model M/F. They certainly aren’t worth anywhere near $1500+. (I would know. I own one, purchased for $300 including controller.)
7. The community is too hyperbolic. Switches aren’t merely “okay”, they’re “trash”. They aren’t “preferred”, but “godly”. This goes for case designs, keycap materials, colorways, etc. etc. (And this is a complaint that could probably be leveled at society at large, not just the community.)
I agree with point 3, there is too much options and types this days to make a choice, Nylon, PC, POM, long pole, HP style, sharp, round, short travel, etc, you can't get an idea without actually trying it, especially since keyboard parts are pretty expensive to try, or at least very expensive in small quantities.
Manufacturers should give the option to get switch sample packs for starters.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tiltowait on Sat, 31 July 2021, 14:57:11
Switch samples are okay, but they don't give a great impression of what typing on an actual keyboard, especially for any real length of time, will be like. I thought I would like clears based on a sampler I tried, but once I had them on an actual keyboard, I was pretty disappointed and wound up selling it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MetricSystemAdvocate on Sun, 01 August 2021, 06:33:17
Let's hear them.

I'll start off.

1. I hate 60% boards, and rarely use my Poker 2. The lack of arrow keys kills me, and I can never be productive or get serious work done on one.

2. I think HHKB boards are overrated, and the layout dumber than a Poker. I think custom MX, HHKB layout boards are just as stupid (Viper, Happy).

3. I think Topre is overrated, and lower quality than MX (despite the higher price) as the board tends to get stiffer over time.

Welp, I'm a fan of compacts!

Arrow keys on HJKL, accessed by pressing a layer modifier is so much more convenient. I really like to stay on the home row when typing.

HHKB is good for the split RS and the ideal backspace positioning, but the wasted space on the bottom left and right is kinda silly

Topre - I agree. I've tried some out and it's definitely overpriced for what are good rubber domes. They aren't bad, but not worth the price.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 03 August 2021, 17:55:38

  I'd only use a compact layout for programming....or playing NetHack  ;)  Need my dedicated f-keys for various other things. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chadrezzar on Wed, 04 August 2021, 20:18:53
Kinda like how all high-end sound systems can be so easily spoiled with inferior music CDs that run the risk of displaying distortion, overwarm bass, lack of treble clarity, artificial sounding sound stage, not to mention simply questionable musical taste. None of which should be tolerated by the discerning audiophile. That's why 9 out 10 serious audiophiles demand only the very best and most flawless experience from their hifis, and will listen only to blank CDs, after they have switched the unit off. :-X  :p
That would be the keyboards in our collections hanging from the walls/lined up on a shelf with all switches spring swapped/lubed/filmed to perfection..... Talking about audio... I was forced to acknowledge my hypocrisy the other day when I was trying to find out why an amplifier has to cost $XXX when it should be relatively simple technology.... whilst looking at keyboard Gb's in certain price ranges on a different tab  :-X
Maybe we should all just pick up a K120 and call it a day...     :eek: :))


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: shuijiao on Wed, 04 August 2021, 23:50:58
DCS is goated
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 05 August 2021, 03:44:11
OEM profile is top kek!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Thu, 05 August 2021, 10:50:55


1. Pom blanks are the superior keycaps. Durable and no possible issues with legend centering/legend quality.

No matter of concern for those who touch type.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Agree and this is why OG pom remains my endgame keyset
nothing can be as unique , there are plenty of cherry original dyesub, but they cannot be as good as OG pom : )
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Thu, 05 August 2021, 20:22:29
The optical switches on the Razer Huntsman Mini are smoother than any MX style switch I've ever tried, including tangerines and alpacas.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: alertArchitect on Fri, 06 August 2021, 11:52:43
The optical switches on the Razer Huntsman Mini are smoother than any MX style switch I've ever tried, including tangerines and alpacas.

Yeah, I've heard they're rather pleasant for fans of linears. Even the ones that have analog sensitivity. I only dislike them because I prefer tactiles to linears, and though I can live with them if necessary I'm not a big fan of linears in general.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Thu, 12 August 2021, 21:39:19
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kikomir on Fri, 13 August 2021, 02:12:10
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Fri, 13 August 2021, 06:21:20
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
To me serves the purpose of giving me a feedback to know I've pressed the bottom and did not miss it by not pressing enough, which can happen with linears for me, it also helps to recognize mistypes and prevent them. 
Maybe the initial concept was to not bottom out but I can't see that happening now with the MX switches available, it's either noticeably tactile and bottoming out (most of the noticeable tactile are Holy Panda style anyway) by having a lighter spring than the tactile bump resulting in bottoming out or having a weaker bump than the spring resulting in weak tactile feeback. 

I just find the concept tiring to force yourself to not bottom out, with the current MX switches avaliable.
Could you give examples of boards that have tactile feeback meant to not bottom out?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kikomir on Fri, 13 August 2021, 08:56:01
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
To me serves the purpose of giving me a feedback to know I've pressed the bottom and did not miss it by not pressing enough, which can happen with linears for me, it also helps to recognize mistypes and prevent them. 
Maybe the initial concept was to not bottom out but I can't see that happening now with the MX switches available, it's either noticeably tactile and bottoming out (most of the noticeable tactile are Holy Panda style anyway) by having a lighter spring than the tactile bump resulting in bottoming out or having a weaker bump than the spring resulting in weak tactile feeback. 

I just find the concept tiring to force yourself to not bottom out, with the current MX switches avaliable.
Could you give examples of boards that have tactile feeback meant to not bottom out?

I can't give you an example of a board with tactile switches that is meant to not bottom out because that would be like asking me to give an example of a car designed to not move. It goes against the core concept.

"The fundamental reason is ergonomic. Tactile feedback makes it possible for a typist to stop pushing down before the keys bottom out, reducing total effort by up to a factor of two.
The lowered effort substantially reduces the risk of RSI, and there field evidence that people with RSI may achieve reduction in symptoms or even complete remission of RSI by using tactile-feedback devices.
Even people without RSI often find they can type faster and more accurately on tactile devices than on dome-switch keyboards that don’t supply anything but slight uniform resistance or a meaningless click before they bottom out."


Also, "tactile" switches are simply an effort to mimic the tactility of the clickies but be more silent, it's the strong tactility of the clickies that is the desired trait. I personally think that none of the MX clones are actually tactile, except for the clickies (and maybe BOX Royals, depending on if you count them as tactile or clicky). MX switches being terrible at tactility is the reason people simply think that you must bottom out.

Also, another strange opinion of mine, linears are so popular because they are, bear with me, more tactile than tactiles/clickies. The harsh bottom out is a strong tactile event, signaling your finger to stop pushing and go back.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Fri, 13 August 2021, 09:57:41
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
My comment

I can't give you an example of a board with tactile switches that is meant to not bottom out because that would be like asking me to give an example of a car designed to not move. It goes against the core concept.

"The fundamental reason is ergonomic. Tactile feedback makes it possible for a typist to stop pushing down before the keys bottom out, reducing total effort by up to a factor of two.
The lowered effort substantially reduces the risk of RSI, and there field evidence that people with RSI may achieve reduction in symptoms or even complete remission of RSI by using tactile-feedback devices.
Even people without RSI often find they can type faster and more accurately on tactile devices than on dome-switch keyboards that don’t supply anything but slight uniform resistance or a meaningless click before they bottom out."


Also, "tactile" switches are simply an effort to mimic the tactility of the clickies but be more silent, it's the strong tactility of the clickies that is the desired trait. I personally think that none of the MX clones are actually tactile, except for the clickies (and maybe BOX Royals, depending on if you count them as tactile or clicky). MX switches being terrible at tactility is the reason people simply think that you must bottom out.

Also, another strange opinion of mine, linears are so popular because they are, bear with me, more tactile than tactiles/clickies. The harsh bottom out is a strong tactile event, signaling your finger to stop pushing and go back.
Well you can't say MX switches aren't tactile in the sense of "they aren't tactile because real tactility is meant to allow you to not bottom out while typing" and then say you don't have any example of a board with real tactile mechanism, it doesn't really have to be MX, are alps considered actual tactiles to you? can you use Model M buckling springs without bottoming out? I'm genuinely curious.
I could see your point with the lineras, it's a plain and simple feedback, linaer travel until you stop and then you definitly know you can lift your finger. 
But I can't see how a casual keyboard user or even enthusiast will be able to accuratly stop himself from bottoming out while having high WPM count. [Edit: when using tactile MX switches or even any switch unless it's very heavy].

BOX royals are indeed pretty tactile but I disagree those are the only tactiles along with the clickbar swithces, most of the HP style tactiles are pretty tactile, Moyu Black, U4T, T1, etc, they're pretty nice IMO, they give the feeling of a button rather than a switch.
Seems like people don't like that the feedback mechanism on MX style tactile switches is not tied to the actuation.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chadrezzar on Tue, 17 August 2021, 23:07:25
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
To me serves the purpose of giving me a feedback to know I've pressed the bottom and did not miss it by not pressing enough, which can happen with linears for me, it also helps to recognize mistypes and prevent them. 
Maybe the initial concept was to not bottom out but I can't see that happening now with the MX switches available, it's either noticeably tactile and bottoming out (most of the noticeable tactile are Holy Panda style anyway) by having a lighter spring than the tactile bump resulting in bottoming out or having a weaker bump than the spring resulting in weak tactile feeback. 

I just find the concept tiring to force yourself to not bottom out, with the current MX switches avaliable.
Could you give examples of boards that have tactile feeback meant to not bottom out?

Which is exactly why I dislike a lot of the tactile offerings currenty on the table. The tactility bump is so sharp/big/long that to me they miss the entire purpose of tactile switch; feedback on the actuation point of the keypress. MX browns on the other hand aren't it either: feedback is just too weak.

To me tactile feedback is just about knowing when the switch actuated, I'm not at all interested in feeling that I'm overcoming a long mountain trek or just hit a deer on my keyboard  :-X

I think the zealv1's did it very well though they had some other less than stellar things such as wobble(didn't bother me much). The only way I've found a tactility I like in the current offerings is through frankenswitching to get something with a bump stronger than browns but not as extreme as zealv2's or drawn out like boba u4's.

(End result boba linear bottoms with silent sky stems)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lakiozoon on Wed, 18 August 2021, 04:03:04
I prefer Costar over the Cherry Stabilizers (even the good Screw-in lubed Cherries), especially on the Space Bar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Chalkboard on Wed, 18 August 2021, 14:59:06
For me, the tactility in tactile switches serves the purpose of providing a high initial resistance to prevent inadvertent key presses. Which is why I tend to like sharp tactile switches with the tactile bump right at the top. But I bottom out when typing, so there's that. Hey it's just an opinion :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Wed, 18 August 2021, 17:06:29
Not bottoming out switches and looking for a tactile switch that allows that is a very weird concept to me.

Just curious, what purpose does the tactile feedback of "tactile" and "clicky" switches serve if you're meant to bottom out anyway? Bear in mind the core concept of linear/clicky/tactile has been around for decades, when the AESTHETICS didn't matter.
To me serves the purpose of giving me a feedback to know I've pressed the bottom and did not miss it by not pressing enough, which can happen with linears for me, it also helps to recognize mistypes and prevent them. 
Maybe the initial concept was to not bottom out but I can't see that happening now with the MX switches available, it's either noticeably tactile and bottoming out (most of the noticeable tactile are Holy Panda style anyway) by having a lighter spring than the tactile bump resulting in bottoming out or having a weaker bump than the spring resulting in weak tactile feeback. 

I just find the concept tiring to force yourself to not bottom out, with the current MX switches avaliable.
Could you give examples of boards that have tactile feeback meant to not bottom out?

Which is exactly why I dislike a lot of the tactile offerings currenty on the table. The tactility bump is so sharp/big/long that to me they miss the entire purpose of tactile switch; feedback on the actuation point of the keypress. MX browns on the other hand aren't it either: feedback is just too weak.

To me tactile feedback is just about knowing when the switch actuated, I'm not at all interested in feeling that I'm overcoming a long mountain trek or just hit a deer on my keyboard  :-X

I think the zealv1's did it very well though they had some other less than stellar things such as wobble(didn't bother me much). The only way I've found a tactility I like in the current offerings is through frankenswitching to get something with a bump stronger than browns but not as extreme as zealv2's or drawn out like boba u4's.

(End result boba linear bottoms with silent sky stems)
Well you're basically describing Ergo Clears. 
Zeals V1 we're Ergo Clears like switch, and from a short test I've maded mixing a an Outemu V2 stem in a linear boba housing produced an Ergo Clear like switch, not sure how a silent stem will differ though.

Can you actually prevent yourself from bottoming out while having high WPM? seems like it's either tiring or jamming your WPM as 4mm is not long enough in my eyes, though I'll admit I havn't used an ergo clear board, maybe I should give it a shot.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: chadrezzar on Wed, 18 August 2021, 20:27:48
Well you're basically describing Ergo Clears. 
Zeals V1 we're Ergo Clears like switch, and from a short test I've maded mixing a an Outemu V2 stem in a linear boba housing produced an Ergo Clear like switch, not sure how a silent stem will differ though.

Can you actually prevent yourself from bottoming out while having high WPM? seems like it's either tiring or jamming your WPM as 4mm is not long enough in my eyes, though I'll admit I havn't used an ergo clear board, maybe I should give it a shot.

Pretty much yes:

I very much like the silent stems because even if I overdose the force needed for a keypress it doesn't result in an overly harsh bottomout. Obviously I still bottom out every now and then, especially when typing fast(when trying to type as fast as possible I'd say I bottomout on the majority of keypresses)  WPM also takes a hit when I try to consciously not bottom out: https://i.imgur.com/9H4d9QM.png. (My wpm depends highly on the stand of the moon or something though, are days I can hit 170, others I'll struggle to get 110, is what it is though I have to say I don't test frequently  ^-^)


I won't be hitting 200wpm anytime soon(if it all) when trying not to bottomout but that's fine with me, for my purposes it's fast enough...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Sat, 21 August 2021, 08:42:13
I've been sitting on this one for a while: aviator connectors look terrible.

They're super chunk and unaesthetic, and the exposed hardware is all around bleh. I'd rather have multiple cables for multiple devices than have a set of aviators.

Lemo connectors, on the other hand, are the gold standard. Lemo clones are a cheaper alternative that are only ~20 msrp. We need more cables offered with lemo clones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: The Grill of Your Dreams on Sat, 21 August 2021, 12:31:20
IDK if this is all that unpopular, but I think cherry makes some of the worst key switches on the market right now. Reds are meh, Blues sound ****ing hideous (greens are better but not by much), and browns are just lackluster when you use literally any other tactile switch somewhere like NK has to offer. I've heard blacks are nice but honestly, my general distaste for Cherry has made me completely uninterested.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Sat, 21 August 2021, 12:58:26
DCS > GMK
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tiltowait on Sat, 21 August 2021, 14:59:49
IDK if this is all that unpopular, but I think cherry makes some of the worst key switches on the market right now. Reds are meh, Blues sound ****ing hideous (greens are better but not by much), and browns are just lackluster when you use literally any other tactile switch somewhere like NK has to offer. I've heard blacks are nice but honestly, my general distaste for Cherry has made me completely uninterested.

I'm mostly there with you. I think MX and MX-derived switches are inferior to other technologies, though I'm personally fine with reds and think they're easily the best offering (Kailh Box Reds are better, though).

I've been sitting on this one for a while: aviator connectors look terrible.

They're super chunk and unaesthetic, and the exposed hardware is all around bleh. I'd rather have multiple cables for multiple devices than have a set of aviators.

Lemo connectors, on the other hand, are the gold standard. Lemo clones are a cheaper alternative that are only ~20 msrp. We need more cables offered with lemo clones.

Honestly, I don't see a huge difference between them. They all look odd to me, like some sort of water pipe fitting rather than a USB cable. And 90% of the time, they don't match the aesthetic of the keyboard at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hans_Luber on Sat, 21 August 2021, 19:43:51
The optical switches on the Razer Huntsman Mini are smoother than any MX style switch I've ever tried, including tangerines and alpacas.

Same goes with the Flaretech switches in the Wooting keyboards. Almost too smooth. Really neat though, especially with the variable actuation distance.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Sun, 22 August 2021, 08:27:11
The optical switches on the Razer Huntsman Mini are smoother than any MX style switch I've ever tried, including tangerines and alpacas.

Same goes with the Flaretech switches in the Wooting keyboards. Almost too smooth. Really neat though, especially with the variable actuation distance.
The first gen Flaretech switches on my Celeritas II are pretty good, off center isn't the best on a lot of them but otherwise they're very nice, compared to my Gat yellows you almost can't feel the travel.
Maybe I'd lube them one day, Trybosis 3204 will probably get rid of the off center issue and make them extra smooth.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Sun, 22 August 2021, 11:46:38
IDK if this is all that unpopular, but I think cherry makes some of the worst key switches on the market right now. Reds are meh, Blues sound ****ing hideous (greens are better but not by much), and browns are just lackluster when you use literally any other tactile switch somewhere like NK has to offer. I've heard blacks are nice but honestly, my general distaste for Cherry has made me completely uninterested.

I don't think this is an unpopular opinion whatsoever. Retooled browns have gotten positive attention, but other otherwise they're pretty lackluster.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Sun, 22 August 2021, 12:13:23
Ultrasonic baths are dumb, boiling is better.

Literally just yeet switches into a pan, boil them. They don't deform or melt, it's way faster and better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 23 August 2021, 06:26:10
Ultrasonic baths are dumb, boiling is better.

Literally just yeet switches into a pan, boil them. They don't deform or melt, it's way faster and better.
boiling will remove anything that is water soluble, ultrasonic baths everything else too, it is most often not needed i agree but still is much stronger.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 23 August 2021, 07:24:04

boiling is better.


ABS can't survive that temperature. Verify the material before you go over about 185F/85C.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mode on Mon, 23 August 2021, 09:07:52

boiling is better.


ABS can't survive that temperature. Verify the material before you go over about 185F/85C.

I have, pine alps are not abs, they handle high temps easy.

Even bamboo seems to be fine which is abs and does melt in acetone, I just wouldn’t push it too far. who even cares about bamboo though?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gidders369 on Mon, 23 August 2021, 15:47:47
I think that the pe foam mod and tape mod are the begining of the end for this hobby. It makes every single board sound the same and just takes out all of the fun in keyboards in general
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 23 August 2021, 15:56:40
I think that the pe foam mod and tape mod are the begining of the end for this hobby. It makes every single board sound the same and just takes out all of the fun in keyboards in general

Solid first post!

I totally agree. The variation between boards is what keep things interesting (IMO). That's why I always appreciate the Dactyl community and all of the offshoots. Truly the wild west for keyboards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Hans_Luber on Mon, 23 August 2021, 18:11:44
The optical switches on the Razer Huntsman Mini are smoother than any MX style switch I've ever tried, including tangerines and alpacas.

Same goes with the Flaretech switches in the Wooting keyboards. Almost too smooth. Really neat though, especially with the variable actuation distance.
The first gen Flaretech switches on my Celeritas II are pretty good, off center isn't the best on a lot of them but otherwise they're very nice, compared to my Gat yellows you almost can't feel the travel.
Maybe I'd lube them one day, Trybosis 3204 will probably get rid of the off center issue and make them extra smooth.

Idk why I never considered lubing flaretechs. I haven't touched that keyboard in quite some time. Have you seen what they are going for on ebay these days? Seems like a joke.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Mon, 23 August 2021, 18:31:54
I think that the pe foam mod and tape mod are the begining of the end for this hobby. It makes every single board sound the same and just takes out all of the fun in keyboards in general

At most, it would just be the beginning of people paying more attention to the various other aspects of keyboards. For me personally, sound barely makes it into the top ten of a keyboard's most interesting attributes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Mon, 23 August 2021, 18:54:59
I must be in the minority, as long as the keyboard doesn't sound like a rattlebox or broken, then I don't care what it sounds like. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Tue, 24 August 2021, 09:45:18
I always wear noise cancelling headphones, so I don't even know what my keyboard sounds like   :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nerif on Wed, 25 August 2021, 05:48:33
I think that light switches shouldn't exist. I prefer MX Blacks over the Reds, Clears over the Browns and so forth and so on. I hate light switches so much that I think that the worst part of the MX Brown switch is the 45g spring, which is too light for a tactile switch. Seriously, tactile switches have been made to PREVENT accidental keypresses, and the light spring gets in a way of that preventing.

Also, my hands start to hurt over time when I type on a keyboard with light switches, but they don't when I type on a keyboard with heavy switches.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Wed, 25 August 2021, 08:20:14
i do agree with you that brown's springs are way too light
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nerif on Wed, 25 August 2021, 11:20:44
i do agree with you that brown's springs are way too light

You know, it was a really huge disappointment.

When I was reading/watching reviews on brown MX switches I was thinking that "oh yeah, they are not as tactile as clears (I got one loose Cherry MX Clear switch way before I tried Cherry MX Brown switches), but I am ready for it and I still think they are not that bad". This optimistic point of view was completely destroyed when I got them. They are so light that making accidental keypresses with them is as easy as making them with MX Reds. This is extremely annoying. If I wanted to make lots of typos, I would better prefer silvers, they weren't at least marketed as "good switch for typists".
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Wed, 25 August 2021, 13:03:26
Preferences might change with time though. I used to like Clears, but now I use linearised Orange Alps that are what, 45g?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: problemxyz on Wed, 25 August 2021, 15:22:59
I find TKL keyboards plain weird to look at. Typing on them and moving your hand towards the arrow keys makes your hand drop besides the keyboard. I can't get used to it.
75% designs like the gorgeous Satisfaction75 are what 75% designs are supposed to be.
If you designed a car which is a sedan and you want to make a coupé version, you don't simply get rid of the backdoors and simply move the backwindow close to the front seats but leave all the shapes exactly how they are. That's how TKL's are to me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Wed, 25 August 2021, 15:34:27
I find TKL keyboards plain weird to look at. Typing on them and moving your hand towards the arrow keys makes your hand drop besides the keyboard. I can't get used to it.
75% designs like the gorgeous Satisfaction75 are what 75% designs are supposed to be.
If you designed a car which is a sedan and you want to make a coupé version, you don't simply get rid of the backdoors and simply move the backwindow close to the front seats but leave all the shapes exactly how they are. That's how TKL's are to me.
Do people actually use the keys above the arrow aside for Print screen and Delete? I'll imagine people like the spacing enough to not care about the bulkyness.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 25 August 2021, 15:36:02
I find TKL keyboards plain weird to look at. Typing on them and moving your hand towards the arrow keys makes your hand drop besides the keyboard. I can't get used to it.
75% designs like the gorgeous Satisfaction75 are what 75% designs are supposed to be.

Wouldn't the Satisfaction still cause your hand to drop as well? In either case, the arrow keys are R4. If anything, the Satisfaction75's "nav cluster" is dropped lower than R4 by some fraction, so that's an even further vertical gap between arrows and the home row.

Wouldn't the ideal be a split space (or some other easily accessible left handed layer button) and hjkl arrows?

Do people actually use the keys above the arrow aside for Print screen and Delete? I'll imagine people like the spacing enough to not care about the bulkyness.

I actually use pgup/pgdown with my right thumb when my hand is rested on my mouse (ball mouse). Seems funky, but it's actually pretty comfortable. Handy for web browsing and reading articles.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nerif on Wed, 25 August 2021, 15:40:22
Preferences might change with time though. I used to like Clears, but now I use linearised Orange Alps that are what, 45g?

Yeah, preferences really have this tendency. Today you can't even pretend that there is something better than your Razer Blackwidow 2014 with Razer Green switches, half a year later you think that the genuine Cherry MX Red swtiches are superior to anything else, and 4 years later... You think that your customised as hell HHKB is not as good and you want it to be.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Wed, 25 August 2021, 15:42:12


Do people actually use the keys above the arrow aside for Print screen and Delete? I'll imagine people like the spacing enough to not care about the bulkyness.
I use Shift+Home, Shift+End and Delete frequently.  The Snip Tool has eliminated my need for the Print Screen key.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: problemxyz on Wed, 25 August 2021, 15:46:49

Wouldn't the Satisfaction still cause your hand to drop as well? In either case, the arrow keys are R4. If anything, the Satisfaction75's "nav cluster" is dropped lower than R4 by some fraction, so that's an even further vertical gap between arrows and the home row.

No because the arrow keys are close enough so you don't have to be flailing your forearm across the room just to get to your arrow keys. So your handposition kindof stays homerow-ish. Much closer like a 65% procent would.

Wouldn't the ideal be a split space (or some other easily accessible left handed layer button) and hjkl arrows?
That would be much better. I have a 75% on the way because of the looks, while I intend to program it for capslock and then i,j,k,l.

Do people actually use the keys above the arrow aside for Print screen and Delete? I'll imagine people like the spacing enough to not care about the bulkyness.

I actually use pgup/pgdown with my right thumb when my hand is rested on my mouse (ball mouse). Seems funky, but it's actually pretty comfortable. Handy for web browsing and reading articles.
[/quote]

That makes a lot of sense actually. I love those kind of shortcuts.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: problemxyz on Wed, 25 August 2021, 15:52:41
I think that light switches shouldn't exist. I prefer MX Blacks over the Reds, Clears over the Browns and so forth and so on. I hate light switches so much that I think that the worst part of the MX Brown switch is the 45g spring, which is too light for a tactile switch. Seriously, tactile switches have been made to PREVENT accidental keypresses, and the light spring gets in a way of that preventing.

Also, my hands start to hurt over time when I type on a keyboard with light switches, but they don't when I type on a keyboard with heavy switches.

So are you one of those refined humans from 40 generations from now who can naturally type well without bottoming out?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nerif on Wed, 25 August 2021, 16:01:12
I think that light switches shouldn't exist. I prefer MX Blacks over the Reds, Clears over the Browns and so forth and so on. I hate light switches so much that I think that the worst part of the MX Brown switch is the 45g spring, which is too light for a tactile switch. Seriously, tactile switches have been made to PREVENT accidental keypresses, and the light spring gets in a way of that preventing.

Also, my hands start to hurt over time when I type on a keyboard with light switches, but they don't when I type on a keyboard with heavy switches.

So are you one of those refined humans from 40 generations from now who can naturally type well without bottoming out?

from 40 generations? what? I am 17 years old lol.

Okay it doesn't matter really, yeah, I can type without bottoming out, I need to say "Thank you" to o-rings for that. Seriously, they are not as bad as people think, they are good in ergo-ish way
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Wed, 25 August 2021, 17:00:56


I think that light switches shouldn't exist. I prefer MX Blacks over the Reds, Clears over the Browns and so forth and so on. I hate light switches so much that I think that the worst part of the MX Brown switch is the 45g spring, which is too light for a tactile switch. Seriously, tactile switches have been made to PREVENT accidental keypresses, and the light spring gets in a way of that preventing.

Also, my hands start to hurt over time when I type on a keyboard with light switches, but they don't when I type on a keyboard with heavy switches.
With 150g switches in BOX Navy switches, 200g in my Macropad, I agree 100%! 

Accidentally hitting enter or  pasting a macro to a spreadsheet and not immediately realizing it... 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nerif on Wed, 25 August 2021, 17:07:54


I think that light switches shouldn't exist. I prefer MX Blacks over the Reds, Clears over the Browns and so forth and so on. I hate light switches so much that I think that the worst part of the MX Brown switch is the 45g spring, which is too light for a tactile switch. Seriously, tactile switches have been made to PREVENT accidental keypresses, and the light spring gets in a way of that preventing.

Also, my hands start to hurt over time when I type on a keyboard with light switches, but they don't when I type on a keyboard with heavy switches.
With 150g switches in BOX Navy switches, 200g in my Macropad, I agree 100%! 

Accidentally hitting enter or  pasting a macro to a spreadsheet and not immediately realizing it... 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

yeah... I tried loose Kailh BOX Ancient Grey switch... It's really cool
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Thu, 26 August 2021, 13:44:03
Light switches are great for boards with softer bottom outs, but I wouldn't care for them with hard ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Thu, 26 August 2021, 17:32:27
i do agree with you that brown's springs are way too light

You know, it was a really huge disappointment.

When I was reading/watching reviews on brown MX switches I was thinking that "oh yeah, they are not as tactile as clears (I got one loose Cherry MX Clear switch way before I tried Cherry MX Brown switches), but I am ready for it and I still think they are not that bad". This optimistic point of view was completely destroyed when I got them. They are so light that making accidental keypresses with them is as easy as making them with MX Reds. This is extremely annoying. If I wanted to make lots of typos, I would better prefer silvers, they weren't at least marketed as "good switch for typists".

This reminds me of one of my unpopular keyboard opinions: OEM/Cherry are terrible profiles because they invite lots of typos. Their sharp corners are easy to catch by accident as your fingers move across the keyboard. Once I switched to DSA with their gentle corners my wpm went up by 20 or so.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nerif on Fri, 27 August 2021, 00:47:09
i do agree with you that brown's springs are way too light

You know, it was a really huge disappointment.

When I was reading/watching reviews on brown MX switches I was thinking that "oh yeah, they are not as tactile as clears (I got one loose Cherry MX Clear switch way before I tried Cherry MX Brown switches), but I am ready for it and I still think they are not that bad". This optimistic point of view was completely destroyed when I got them. They are so light that making accidental keypresses with them is as easy as making them with MX Reds. This is extremely annoying. If I wanted to make lots of typos, I would better prefer silvers, they weren't at least marketed as "good switch for typists".

This reminds me of one of my unpopular keyboard opinions: OEM/Cherry are terrible profiles because they invite lots of typos. Their sharp corners are easy to catch by accident as your fingers move across the keyboard. Once I switched to DSA with their gentle corners my wpm went up by 20 or so.

LOL I hate DSA keycap profile because I type much slower on a keyboard with DSA keycaps
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: noons on Tue, 07 September 2021, 09:11:15
I think that light switches shouldn't exist. I prefer MX Blacks over the Reds, Clears over the Browns and so forth and so on. I hate light switches so much that I think that the worst part of the MX Brown switch is the 45g spring, which is too light for a tactile switch. Seriously, tactile switches have been made to PREVENT accidental keypresses, and the light spring gets in a way of that preventing.

Also, my hands start to hurt over time when I type on a keyboard with light switches, but they don't when I type on a keyboard with heavy switches.

I personally love light switches. It's odd that light switches hurt your hands, but if you're a heavy typer I guess that makes sense especially if you're bottoming out hard. I'll spend 8 hours a day typing commands on a console so anything heavy can start to hurt, though in fairness I'm probably starting with early onset of arthritis.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Nerif on Wed, 08 September 2021, 02:48:45
I'm not bottoming out.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 08 September 2021, 05:17:18

I have a very light touch, so I like the light springs and subtle force curves.  With heavy switches I think I'd feel like I was fighting the keyboard.  "Browns" work fine for me, but Speed Bronze is my current happy place. 

I just got my first set of keycaps with a horizontally-oriented "#" on the 3 key.  I thought it was a misprint, but looking around I see that horizontal "#" seems to be a real thing some sets have.  I think I've only used sets with vertically oriented "#" before, and a horizontal "#" on the 3 key just looks really weird and out of sync with the other symbols on the number keys to me. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 28 October 2021, 20:07:50

  Quiet around here, so here goes....

  The spacebar is TOO DAMN BIG.
 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Fri, 29 October 2021, 04:23:10
i dunno, 6u seems a bit small to me 10u looks like the sweet spot :)
joking aside, i think that given i only use my right thumb on the bar i feel a 1.5u should be usable, but i understand the large space bars and find that often 7U layouts look cleaner.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Fri, 29 October 2021, 05:17:24
2.75 is my sweet spot for space bars.  I would gladly downsize everything but the 0, +, and enter on the number pad as well. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 29 October 2021, 08:30:13
I think that light switches shouldn't exist. I prefer MX Blacks over the Reds, Clears over the Browns and so forth and so on. I hate light switches so much that I think that the worst part of the MX Brown switch is the 45g spring, which is too light for a tactile switch. Seriously, tactile switches have been made to PREVENT accidental keypresses, and the light spring gets in a way of that preventing.

Also, my hands start to hurt over time when I type on a keyboard with light switches, but they don't when I type on a keyboard with heavy switches.

I personally love light switches. It's odd that light switches hurt your hands, but if you're a heavy typer I guess that makes sense especially if you're bottoming out hard. I'll spend 8 hours a day typing commands on a console so anything heavy can start to hurt, though in fairness I'm probably starting with early onset of arthritis.

I also prefer heavier switches, though not any linears as stiff as blacks. If they're tactile/clicky they can be stiffer for me without fatigue. Conversely, I have made the argument various times on this forum that people who experience discomfort/pain with lighter switches probably aren't putting in the time necessary to acclimate to such a light switch.

Anything that's 45g or lighter is clearly, in my mind, way too light. I'm not sure how anybody can think otherwise unless they never rest their fingers on the keys. I think the only exceptions would be tactiles/clickies with enough of a tactile event to prevent accidental actuation. I think maybe 45g Niz switches are probably a good example, though it has been a while since I have typed routinely on them.

Ironically, I often type from the time I get up to the time I go to bed, and can do so with box navies just fine. I feel more like I'm fighting the keyboard with a lighter switch than a heavier one. If the switch is too heavy I don't feel confident that I'm going to register a press every time, but that's preferable to me to feeling like walking on eggshells to avoid accidentally actuating keys you didn't even mean to. The only thing that can tip the scale is if a switch is so stiff that it causes fatigue. MX blacks and membrane buckling spring used to do that for me. It appears that they no longer do, but I'm still not confident typing with them either way.

  Quiet around here, so here goes....

  The spacebar is TOO DAMN BIG.

I'm in total agreement. You should really be typing pretty close to in the middle of it anyway, so most of it is literally just wasted space. I see a lot of kids in the schools I work at typing on the extreme edges of it and wonder how that could even be ergonomic.

i dunno, 6u seems a bit small to me 10u looks like the sweet spot :)
joking aside, i think that given i only use my right thumb on the bar i feel a 1.5u should be usable, but i understand the large space bars and find that often 7U layouts look cleaner.

[attachimg=1]

I just used that for over a week.  ;D

I think I would be fine even with a 1u space bar. Might take a tiny bit of adjustment of muscle memory, but maybe not. Never tried any of those high speed low drag layouts.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fortissim2 on Fri, 29 October 2021, 10:54:08
Using an Enter key for your spacebar is much better than using your actual spacebar key.
Does anyone do this too?  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Fri, 29 October 2021, 12:46:56
Using an Enter key for your spacebar is much better than using your actual spacebar key.
Does anyone do this too?  ;)
I used to do it stabless just so I didn't need to hear that goddamn ticking until I started tuning my bars really well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 29 October 2021, 17:10:58
Anything that's 45g or lighter is clearly, in my mind, way too light. I'm not sure how anybody can think otherwise unless they never rest their fingers on the keys.

I only touch the keys between words enough to confirm that I'm at home row position, and while actively typing the unused fingers are off the keys.  Hands and wrists are floating.  Makes me curious what that pressure level is, but it's far less than 45 grams.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 29 October 2021, 17:45:24
Anything that's 45g or lighter is clearly, in my mind, way too light. I'm not sure how anybody can think otherwise unless they never rest their fingers on the keys.

I only touch the keys between words enough to confirm that I'm at home row position, and while actively typing the unused fingers are off the keys.  Hands and wrists are floating.  Makes me curious what that pressure level is, but it's far less than 45 grams.

Just today I accidentally typed a key I was merely passing on my way to another with this MX brown board I have been forcing myself to use the last few days. Never happens on switch types that I like. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I accidentally press keys resting my fingers on them with MX reds all of the time, always have (since that's the 45g switch I have used the most).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Fri, 29 October 2021, 18:20:04
I bottom out anything lighter than 150g...

I have 200g in my macro pad due to unknowingly pressing Cont+P or Cont+Z could cause major havoc at work.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 31 October 2021, 20:31:13
In split ergo keyboards, the 'B' key is on the wrong side (left instead of right). They're all like this, too. If anything, they should duplicate the center two columns so you can use either hand for the middle section while having your hands ergonomically situated apart.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Sun, 31 October 2021, 20:46:58
In split ergo keyboards, the 'B' key is on the wrong side (left instead of right). They're all like this, too. If anything, they should duplicate the center two columns so you can use either hand for the middle section while having your hands ergonomically situated apart.
You mean to say that you have poor typing habits...don't worry, many of us do.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Sun, 31 October 2021, 21:24:05
In split ergo keyboards, the 'B' key is on the wrong side (left instead of right). They're all like this, too. If anything, they should duplicate the center two columns so you can use either hand for the middle section while having your hands ergonomically situated apart.
You mean to say that you have poor typing habits...don't worry, many of us do.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

'B' is equidistant from 'F' and 'J', so it isn't poor typing habit to use the right finger, which seems more common.

Why do you think ergonomic keyboards haven't caught on despite obvious benefits? People don't like the split because the center keys are either sometimes or always on the 'wrong' side for the user. Duplicated center columns mean everyone can use it without adjustment or a single thought.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Sun, 31 October 2021, 21:48:06
I don't know what you mean.  (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211101/f51b32d666fcd5161c19b524c1a5bb42.jpg)

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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Mon, 01 November 2021, 15:27:35
I don't know what you mean. 
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211101/f51b32d666fcd5161c19b524c1a5bb42.jpg)


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Is that a production board, or a custom for those who have "poor typing habits"?  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Mon, 01 November 2021, 19:01:59

Speaking of unorthodox typing habits, sometimes when I see these youtubers do their "typing tests" I pull my hair out watching the strange places/angles they hold their hands.  Ms. Peterson would never have tolerated this poor form in 10th grade Keyboarding class!  Almost as bad as watching dad "hunt-and-peck", LOL.   :p 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 02 November 2021, 07:28:10

Speaking of unorthodox typing habits, sometimes when I see these youtubers do their "typing tests" I pull my hair out watching the strange places/angles they hold their hands.  Ms. Peterson would never have tolerated this poor form in 10th grade Keyboarding class!  Almost as bad as watching dad "hunt-and-peck", LOL.   :p

After the decline of the standalone typewriter, for some reason, an emphasis on teaching typing seems to have declined. It picked back up a little while I was in school (as the home computer and broadband internet spread through almost every home). It seems now that the average person doesn't even use a computer anymore that it is once again on the decline. People would rather stare and poke at a tiny screen, waiting for its anemic hardware to do the tasks a real computer should be doing and routinely mistyping/misclicking things with their relatively gigantic pointing implements.

In the school district in which I work, typing is no longer even a standalone class. They shoehorn it briefly into a section of another computer class.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 02 November 2021, 16:29:55
In the school district in which I work, typing is no longer even a standalone class. They shoehorn it briefly into a section of another computer class.

I think high schools should teach and emphasize ergonomics, and keyboarding would be a good part of that.  You can do long term damage to your body by not practicing proper posture and ergonomics, and a lot of bad posture starts with the decades of long hours sitting in desks and hard chairs in schools.   My spine is permanently deformed and delicate from the bad posture I had in my younger years. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Tue, 02 November 2021, 18:21:41
+1 to the above, better keeb ergo and posture might even boost keeb sales
Business 1000


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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sun, 07 November 2021, 16:52:32
Cannot stand ABS feeling. Cannot stand smoothness and shine. Would rather use cheap PBT than expensive GMK for that reason.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Sun, 07 November 2021, 17:10:21
Cannot stand ABS feeling. Cannot stand smoothness and shine. Would rather use cheap PBT than expensive GMK for that reason.
You're not the only one.

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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sun, 07 November 2021, 19:35:51
Cannot stand ABS feeling. Cannot stand smoothness and shine. Would rather use cheap PBT than expensive GMK for that reason.
You're not the only one.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I thought that was the trend and not the exception, but I really don't even care about fancy caps anyway. I do like me some shine, but I like PBT as well.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: problemxyz on Tue, 09 November 2021, 04:04:33
You can't have a black case and white kecyaps. The other way around is fine.
Or really, whenever the contrast of light/dark gets substantial, a case that is significantly darker than the keycaps is not something that you can do.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: problemxyz on Tue, 09 November 2021, 04:07:33
Also I prefer some stem wobble over no wobble.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Tue, 09 November 2021, 06:12:21
Also I prefer some stem wobble over no wobble.
Heretic!

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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Tue, 09 November 2021, 09:17:53
You can't have a black case and white kecyaps. The other way around is fine.
Or really, whenever the contrast of light/dark gets substantial, a case that is significantly darker than the keycaps is not something that you can do.
Sorta agree, but I personally would have wob on everything except for a white case and I just sorta dislike black cases in general


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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 09 November 2021, 12:41:25
You can't have a black case and white kecyaps. The other way around is fine.
Or really, whenever the contrast of light/dark gets substantial, a case that is significantly darker than the keycaps is not something that you can do.
Sorta agree, but I personally would have wob on everything except for a white case and I just sorta dislike black cases in general

[attachimg=1]

I'm not a fan. I don't think I really like white and black as a combination at all, but maybe white is just too cheery of a color to begin with for me. Even though I would probably fit in better on Deskthority I chose to focus almost entirely on Geekhack just because Deskthority shines like 1,000 suns in my eyes.

The only reason I even got that board was because it had MX browns, which I had never tried in a board when I picked it up, and it was cheap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: stidal on Thu, 11 November 2021, 04:40:06
I don't know what you mean. 
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211101/f51b32d666fcd5161c19b524c1a5bb42.jpg)


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i genuinely think sanctuary rebirth might be the ugliest set of all time, and i will die on this hill
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Thu, 11 November 2021, 04:47:19
I don't know what you mean. 
Show Image
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211101/f51b32d666fcd5161c19b524c1a5bb42.jpg)


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i genuinely think sanctuary rebirth might be the ugliest set of all time, and i will die on this hill
And I'm totally fine with that as there are some pretty popular sets out there that I can't stand either.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211111/d366f9c70b6534aa49b4e13d9f611c56.jpg)

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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 11 November 2021, 08:16:04
i genuinely think sanctuary rebirth might be the ugliest set of all time, and i will die on this hill

Worse than these?

(https://telcontar.net/KBK/Tai-Hao/pics/F21KID%20-%20top.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: stidal on Thu, 11 November 2021, 12:21:10
i genuinely think sanctuary rebirth might be the ugliest set of all time, and i will die on this hill

Worse than these?

Show Image
(https://telcontar.net/KBK/Tai-Hao/pics/F21KID%20-%20top.jpg)


100%
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: problemxyz on Thu, 11 November 2021, 13:57:24
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

In a thread on unpopular opinions?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 11 November 2021, 14:51:17
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

In a thread on unpopular opinions?

Where else? Surely not a thread on popular opinions.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: selsik on Sat, 13 November 2021, 07:01:41
1. I hate silent switches. They sound mushy and are not satisfying to type on - IMO if you want that kind of feel, just get a membrane keyboard

2. Not all switches need to be lubed and filmed. Especially tactiles
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: problemxyz on Sat, 13 November 2021, 08:03:23

Where else? Surely not a thread on popular opinions.

Haha that's a good one actually. Imagine a thread popular opinions only, you disagree and you're out.
Oh wait 80% of the internet ...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: gr8ps on Sat, 13 November 2021, 23:59:57
Lubing switches is not a mystical art. Just throw the stems in a bag with some lube and shake it around. Put it back together and wipe off the rest of the lube from the exposed stem. Don't worry about consistency from switch to switch when hand lubing. It all evens out with wear over a few weeks. I cannot believe the amount of hours I wasted hand lubing switches. No one will be able to tell the difference between hand lubed and bag lubed after a month of use - I'd put my money on that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 14 November 2021, 00:53:59
Lubing switches is not a mystical art. Just throw the stems in a bag with some lube and shake it around. Put it back together and wipe off the rest of the lube from the exposed stem. Don't worry about consistency from switch to switch when hand lubing. It all evens out with wear over a few weeks. I cannot believe the amount of hours I wasted hand lubing switches. No one will be able to tell the difference between hand lubed and bag lubed after a month of use - I'd put my money on that.

Depends on your circumstances TBH. Like bag/tub lubing stems would never for me as like linear switches lubed with 205g0, using 63.5g to 45g regular or progressive springs. Bag/tub lubing stems in a situation like that would leave me with quite a few sluggish switches after being put into lubed housings. Honestly probably would even with the added benefit of unlubed housings. 205g0 is just to thick to have on even a little bit heavy at those low weights IME.

On the other hand, if you enjoy heavier weights or dual/triple stage springs & are not super particular about how you lube. I could see it working in a situation like that for sure. It wouldn't feel the most consistent for the first few weeks, but once the lube gets pushed around to all the contact areas & settles into a thinner layer sure it'll probably feel like any meticulously hand lubed switch that has had the same amount of usage.

One other thing, I completely agree with you on is that lubing is no mystical art, LOL! I am constantly surprised by the fact that there is so many who are either scared of trying it, tried once & swore it off, or are just to lazy to do for themselves. Like to the point people are making money lubing switches for people & selling lubed switches at a premium. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't let anyone lube my switches, I know what I like & doubt someone else will have the same tastes. Pretty much 99% of switches I end up getting that were factory lubed or lubed by someone will get ultrasonic cleaned & lubed to my standards before I use them. Truly though, with all the techniques to use out there a person will find their preferred lubing method if they just put in the work to find it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Sun, 14 November 2021, 23:49:44
Agree with the mystical art part, but I still think it is a kind of art in the fact that many beginners can somehow screw it up whether its screwing up a leaf or overlubing. Overlubed switches are nasty and can be a thing that happens with bag lubing sometimes. I get the springs, but I don't get the other parts since you'd usually want to use 205g0 which is a lil thick and hard to spread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Mon, 15 November 2021, 03:48:10

Speaking of unorthodox typing habits, sometimes when I see these youtubers do their "typing tests" I pull my hair out watching the strange places/angles they hold their hands.  Ms. Peterson would never have tolerated this poor form in 10th grade Keyboarding class!  Almost as bad as watching dad "hunt-and-peck", LOL.   :p

After the decline of the standalone typewriter, for some reason, an emphasis on teaching typing seems to have declined. It picked back up a little while I was in school (as the home computer and broadband internet spread through almost every home). It seems now that the average person doesn't even use a computer anymore that it is once again on the decline. People would rather stare and poke at a tiny screen, waiting for its anemic hardware to do the tasks a real computer should be doing and routinely mistyping/misclicking things with their relatively gigantic pointing implements.

In the school district in which I work, typing is no longer even a standalone class. They shoehorn it briefly into a section of another computer class.

I never learned to type properly, as the only 'typing lessons' I received at school were a few weeks in 1988 of typing on a.....laminated A4 printout of a keyboard layout. Needless to say, the experience was sufficiently uninspiring to be almost entirely useless, and I ended up developing an undisciplined and adhoc typing style on my own as I grew up.

It annoys me a little that my typing 'education' was so pathetic. Though while I would have preferred to have received better typing lessons, I don't particularly care much. If I felt that better typing technique was important enough, I could easily have retaught myself as an adult. But I never felt the need.

I suspect that it's a small minority of people whose work actually benefits from lightning-fast typing speeds, and I suspect that most of those people must have pretty uninteresting jobs, if the amount of thinking they have to do is so low that their brains can actually keep up with their nimble fingers.

I assume that most people's jobs nowadays are, like mine, too complicated for ultra-fast typing to be of much significance. I use my keyboard more for navigating between multiple programs and various interfaces than for typing long strings of uninterrupted text. When I'm doing creative work, the keyboard merely plays a support role for my mouse. When I type code, the bulk of my work consists of thinking and decision making, and fast typing skills are as useful there as a Ferrari on a mountain hike.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Mon, 15 November 2021, 05:12:27

  Learning typing isn't about being "ultra-fast", or even quite fast.  It's about using the tool (keyboard) efficiently and ergonomically, which in turn makes any task involving it more efficient.  Doesn't need to be long strings of text, though pretty much everyone regularly types a lot of text since we use language to communicate.  You can certainly e.g. hunt-and-peck through code, but it's much more efficient to be able to type all those curvy () curly {} blocky [] brackets and funky % ^ # symbols without stopping your flow of coding concentration to think/look which keys they're on.  For my own work I'm usually typing hundreds or thousands of commands a day to control the equipment I use, and can keep my eyes and mind on the information on the display while my fingers are running the keyboard by muscle memory. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 15 November 2021, 08:11:29

It annoys me a little that my typing 'education' was so pathetic.


Strangling the intellectual essence out of education is a core objective of the Radical Right's power plan. If you were alive and aware before the late-1970s, you might recognize the changes. If not, you can't remember when (and more importantly - why) America "used to be" great and that leaves you ill-equipped to understand what it would be required to regain our stature in the world.

When I was in high school, I had a free elective and told my father that I wanted to take "Wood Shop" - he said "no" and insisted that I take"Typing" since I already had good basic carpentry skills. This was in the mid-late-1960s and included one semester on a manual typewriter and the second semester (assuming that you passed the first) on the glorious new IBM Selectric.

But, even worse, in my time a year-long course in "Civics" was required, usually around the 7th-8th grade, wherein you learned the basic tenants and mechanics of the operation of our society and government. That was targeted as one of the earliest casualties for the Hard Right "Culture Wars" - if you don't understand how the world works you can more easily be manipulated into an "alternative" world view.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 15 November 2021, 10:05:06
I never learned to type properly, as the only 'typing lessons' I received at school were a few weeks in 1988 of typing on a.....laminated A4 printout of a keyboard layout. Needless to say, the experience was sufficiently uninspiring to be almost entirely useless, and I ended up developing an undisciplined and adhoc typing style on my own as I grew up.

I had to chuckle at that image :)

I (and my cohort) also never learned to type 'properly in school.' Some of us played with typing tutors on ancient home computers, the sorts that had green or amber monitors. I don't think I ever came across the concept of typing classes until I spoke to Americans of a similar age.

One of my best friends only learned to type properly in his mid to late 20s because he was so annoyed that he had to hunt and peck, whereas I could touch type, and would do so just to annoy him.

Typing is never about raw speed though, it's about being able to use the keyboard fluently enough that the act is not mentally distracting. I'm okay with normal text, but come to jarring halt when I have to throw in symbols. Or these days, even numbers are slightly distracting as I no longer have a numeric keypad.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Mon, 15 November 2021, 12:19:22
I probably said this before but the Ikki 68 reinforced the hot take: Customs that don't allow for unique layouts are kinda pointless. If you don't want stuff like split spacebars, or 40s, or whatever, just get a Razer Optical keyboard and rest easy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Mon, 15 November 2021, 15:52:16
This was in the mid-late-1960s and included one semester on a manual typewriter and the second semester (assuming that you passed the first) on the glorious new IBM Selectric.

We were still learning on the Selectric 20 years later.  ;)  I may have been in one of the last classes to use that fleet of battleships. 

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Altis on Mon, 15 November 2021, 15:57:04

  Learning typing isn't about being "ultra-fast", or even quite fast.  It's about using the tool (keyboard) efficiently and ergonomically, which in turn makes any task involving it more efficient.  Doesn't need to be long strings of text, though pretty much everyone regularly types a lot of text since we use language to communicate.  You can certainly e.g. hunt-and-peck through code, but it's much more efficient to be able to type all those curvy () curly {} blocky [] brackets and funky % ^ # symbols without stopping your flow of coding concentration to think/look which keys they're on.  For my own work I'm usually typing hundreds or thousands of commands a day to control the equipment I use, and can keep my eyes and mind on the information on the display while my fingers are running the keyboard by muscle memory.

It's a good point. I'm generally a very quick typist when typing out plain language, but typing up crazy reports in LaTeX with all kinds of equations and tables really trains the finger muscles differently. It was a struggle at first, and I suspect it's the difference of training your hand-mind coordination to quickly select each character, compared with having whole words in muscle memory.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Volny on Tue, 16 November 2021, 04:14:07

It annoys me a little that my typing 'education' was so pathetic.


Strangling the intellectual essence out of education is a core objective of the Radical Right's power plan. If you were alive and aware before the late-1970s, you might recognize the changes. If not, you can't remember when (and more importantly - why) America "used to be" great and that leaves you ill-equipped to understand what it would be required to regain our stature in the world.

When I was in high school, I had a free elective and told my father that I wanted to take "Wood Shop" - he said "no" and insisted that I take"Typing" since I already had good basic carpentry skills. This was in the mid-late-1960s and included one semester on a manual typewriter and the second semester (assuming that you passed the first) on the glorious new IBM Selectric.

But, even worse, in my time a year-long course in "Civics" was required, usually around the 7th-8th grade, wherein you learned the basic tenants and mechanics of the operation of our society and government. That was targeted as one of the earliest casualties for the Hard Right "Culture Wars" - if you don't understand how the world works you can more easily be manipulated into an "alternative" world view.


I struggle to see how any of what you just wrote has anything at all to do with my post. And the idea that rote learning of typing patterns on a proper typewriter versus rote learning of typing patterns on a piece of laminated paper can translate to 'strangling intellectual essence" is just plain bonkers. The next time you need to give a stern talking to to the demons in your head, go for it, but don't take unwilling passengers along for the ride. Leave me out of it, thanks.


  Learning typing isn't about being "ultra-fast", or even quite fast.  It's about using the tool (keyboard) efficiently and ergonomically, which in turn makes any task involving it more efficient.  Doesn't need to be long strings of text, though pretty much everyone regularly types a lot of text since we use language to communicate.  You can certainly e.g. hunt-and-peck through code, but it's much more efficient to be able to type all those curvy () curly {} blocky [] brackets and funky % ^ # symbols without stopping your flow of coding concentration to think/look which keys they're on.  For my own work I'm usually typing hundreds or thousands of commands a day to control the equipment I use, and can keep my eyes and mind on the information on the display while my fingers are running the keyboard by muscle memory. 

You're right, of course, but only to a point. Obviously it's better to be a fluent typist than not - it'll never hurt, and will usually help. But there's a finite limit to how far fluent typing and muscle memory can take you. At the risk of appearing arrogant, I'd suggest that unless you're using a much smarter keyboard layout than the standard one, then I'm probably more efficient than you are with all those funky characters, regardless of who is the faster typist. When those symbols were built into the standard layout they were mostly unimportant and were placed (appropriately) in obscure locations. But their placement is nonsensical for anyone who actually uses them a lot (ie. lots of people nowadays). ​I've replaced my entire function row with keys such as "$(){}, so I now have all those symbols right where they should be: next to each other, and next to the numbers, where I also have all 4 math operators -+/* as well as the decimal point. And a separate equals key, so that I no longer have to hit shift to do a plus sign. My fingers also run the keyboard with muscle memory, but faster and with less friction and needless back-and-forth than they ever could if I were using a standard layout. I'm actually somewhat obsessed when it comes to eliminating unnecessary workflow friction, so my workflow is full of  streamlined modifications like this, and my keyboards are so customised to suit my own needs that they barely resemble what anyone would call a normal layout.

Of course, being a fluent typist and using a smarter layout are not mutually exclusive, and it is better to have both than just one. But it may be that because I never learned to adhere or care about any 'proper' typing technique, that it was easier for me to see the glaring flaws (and/or more irritating to put up with them), so I became more likely to cut through the Gordian knot and find more efficient, unorthodox solutions. To me, it's incredible that most people simply accept a design as poor as having the minus, plus, multiply and divide signs spread haphazardly around the keyboard, with two of them requiring a shift, and one of them being nowhere near the numbers (and the numpad doesn't solve this, since it moves the hands even further away from ()[]$ etc.). If I was an ultra fast typist I'd probably notice the inefficiency less, and maybe I'd grow to accept it too. But faster inefficiency is still inefficiency.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 16 November 2021, 06:45:08
At the risk of appearing arrogant, I'd suggest that unless you're using a much smarter keyboard layout than the standard one, then I'm probably more efficient than you are with all those funky characters, regardless of who is the faster typist. When those symbols were built into the standard layout they were mostly unimportant and were placed (appropriately) in obscure locations. But their placement is nonsensical for anyone who actually uses them a lot (ie. lots of people nowadays). ​I've replaced my entire function row with keys such as "$(){}, so I now have all those symbols right where they should be: next to each other, and next to the numbers, where I also have all 4 math operators -+/* as well as the decimal point.

  If a personalized layout works for you, that's great.  For my fingers the f-row is way too long of a reach.  I don't see the standard locations of those symbols as obscure - they're easy to reach where they are, with the sole exception of the tilde key, and I don't mind using shift at all.  Personally I don't think the location of any character/symbol in the layout actually matters anyway, since all of them are already within easy reach and found by reflex.  But nobody says you can't use a different layout if you prefer.
 
  But the efficiency I'm talking about is the ergonomics and process of typing, not about the exact layout of the keyboard.  Use whatever layout you like, on whatever keyboard format you prefer.  Good basic technique will allow you to efficiently use of any of them with practice. Though I'd suggest being fluent with the "standard" layout is still a necessity since 99.9% of the time that's the kind of keyboard you're going to encounter.     
     
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 16 November 2021, 09:02:44

I struggle to see how any of what you just wrote has anything at all to do with my post.


It was my impression that you were expressing frustration and displeasure with a post-1980 education.
I take it as my mission to ensure that people today truly recognize that the the degradation of public education in the US is no accident.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 23 November 2021, 22:38:20

  Yesterday I got a shipping notification.  For a keycap set that I forgot I had bought.  Unpopular Opinion: maybe this hobby is too addictive...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sup on Wed, 24 November 2021, 17:47:07
1. I hate silent switches. They sound mushy and are not satisfying to type on - IMO if you want that kind of feel, just get a membrane keyboard

2. Not all switches need to be lubed and filmed. Especially tactiles

How should silent switches otherwise sound lol clacky? Also that is the dumbest opinion ever just get a membrane keyboard. You definitly  didn't try a silent linear that is tuned well.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Wed, 24 November 2021, 17:52:10

  Yesterday I got a shipping notification.  For a keycap set that I forgot I had bought.  Unpopular Opinion: maybe this hobby is too addictive...
The way influencers promote FOMO is irresponsible. There's always a better keyboard or keyset around the corner, you don't need to kill yourself to chase down this month's hot raffle or GB.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: dankthropod on Thu, 09 December 2021, 04:10:32

4. I cannot stand blank keycaps, I think they are a waste of money and just do not look that appealing/attractive to me. (I'm currently using Leopold stealth keys, side printed keycaps essentially and I can only just tolerate using these).


5. I think a lot of these esc key replacements, the gas masks, the helmets and all that kind of stuff are just repulsive and why someone would want to put that on their keyboard in the first place is beyond me.

4. Although I do understand your dislike for them, they are really useful if you want to stop looking at your keyboard and start touch typing better. I have never personally used them, since I learnt how to touch-type without them, but for someone having trouble resisting the temptation of looking I can recommend.

5. I have to agree that those are very repulsing to me, but some artisans like the 4 seasons ones and the jelly eiden ones from dorp are really beautiful, I'm considering putting them on my main board right now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 10 December 2021, 17:54:28

  Different people have different artistic preferences.  There's an artisan keycap for every style and kink out there.  ;)



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Fri, 10 December 2021, 18:48:44
I just have a lot of artisans in a box


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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Fri, 10 December 2021, 19:04:25
I prefer blank keycaps, it looks clean and keeps co-workers off my keeb.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: santela on Mon, 13 December 2021, 00:19:26
Linears are all 99.9% the same thing, I don't know why people are so obsessed with getting a dozen different linear switches. Tactiles, on the other hand, are much more interesting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hussar_name on Mon, 13 December 2021, 07:11:53
Linears are all 99.9% the same thing, I don't know why people are so obsessed with getting a dozen different linear switches. Tactiles, on the other hand, are much more interesting.

This is really sad. There are a lot of differences. Just try some scratchy reds and the you tell me how much do you like them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 15 December 2021, 20:50:20

  SA is the sexiest profile. 

  Crisply but gently Clicky is the sexiest feel.

  I want my workstation to look like a beefy 1960s military grade command center console.  BOOM
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lolkey on Thu, 16 December 2021, 02:33:25
Bluetooth is pure garbage and shouldn't be used for keyboards.





Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Thu, 16 December 2021, 06:07:25
Bluetooth is pure garbage and shouldn't be used for keyboards.

I've thought this for ages, but more generally that Bluetooth is just garbage all round.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VimLover on Thu, 16 December 2021, 09:33:47
The mechanical keyboard market has been flooded with gimmicks and shilling for switches that are not discernibly better than Cherrys or Gaterons, and the people who claim they do feel different are just experiencing a placebo effect because they want them to feel different.

The only switches that really are different enough to be worth the price are Topre and bucking springs.

Oh and artisan keycaps and over the top keycap sets are gaudy and childish. People who actually care about mechanical keyboards just want a good layout with a nice feeling switch (but one that isn't a gimmick).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Thu, 16 December 2021, 16:44:09


The mechanical keyboard market has been flooded with gimmicks and shilling for switches that are not discernibly better than Cherrys or Gaterons, and the people who claim they do feel different are just experiencing a placebo effect because they want them to feel different.

The only switches that really are different enough to be worth the price are Topre and bucking springs.
You must not be familiar with Kailh's Box switches, especially their tactile and clickies.  The minimal amount of wobble is a nice bonus. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 20 December 2021, 04:11:53


The mechanical keyboard market has been flooded with gimmicks and shilling for switches that are not discernibly better than Cherrys or Gaterons, and the people who claim they do feel different are just experiencing a placebo effect because they want them to feel different.

The only switches that really are different enough to be worth the price are Topre and bucking springs.
You must not be familiar with Kailh's Box switches, especially their tactile and clickies.  The minimal amount of wobble is a nice bonus. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
although i do not agree with his text editor choice :), i see where Vimlover is coming from there, true Kailh innovated a bit with the clickbar and gateron with their MX compatible optical switches, most MX compatible are either a black or brown that has been recolored and at most has a different weighted spring in it, and lower wobble is not really what i would call ground breaking innovation.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Mon, 20 December 2021, 23:38:10
Bigger tactility =/= better tactile switch. 

The modern coiled cabled are useless and unpractical.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 21 December 2021, 01:14:34

  I like the way you think   :cool:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Tue, 21 December 2021, 05:24:16


The mechanical keyboard market has been flooded with gimmicks and shilling for switches that are not discernibly better than Cherrys or Gaterons, and the people who claim they do feel different are just experiencing a placebo effect because they want them to feel different.

The only switches that really are different enough to be worth the price are Topre and bucking springs.
You must not be familiar with Kailh's Box switches, especially their tactile and clickies.  The minimal amount of wobble is a nice bonus. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
although i do not agree with his text editor choice :), i see where Vimlover is coming from there, true Kailh innovated a bit with the clickbar and gateron with their MX compatible optical switches, most MX compatible are either a black or brown that has been recolored and at most has a different weighted spring in it, and lower wobble is not really what i would call ground breaking innovation.
Kailh is the real MVP of the mechanical keyboard community, I don’t think it’s fair to say they “innovated a bit”. 
While the crowd mentality seems to be stuck on revolving around countless recolors, dozens of HP style switch every month, hype and useless aesthetics, Kailh is actually trying to push this community forward, and they do whatever they can on the limited MX form factor.
Hot swap sockets [and v2] (!!), click bar, BOX design, round BOX design, their collabs with NK_ (Creams, BB, Muted Jades), and much more. 

Maybe if we’re not going to ditch the MX form factor, the next step is to go up in switch height?…

BTW, I agree that the MX switch family tree isn’t that different from each other when you look at the 100s of versions of the HP style switch, or countless versions of the linear switches, but you can’t honestly say you don’t feel a difference between a Cherry MX Brown and Boba U4T for example, or BOX Jade vs Cherry MX Blue.
Maybe in comparison to something entirely different such as buckling springs or topre the variations in the MX world seems minuscule, I wouldn’t know I haven’t used anything other than MX type switches, but you can definitely feel a difference when using different weights and tactile mechanisms.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Tue, 21 December 2021, 10:05:30
Bigger tactility =/= better tactile switch. 

The modern coiled cabled are useless and unpractical.
Thock= good mmm yum thockkkk


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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: OhKeycaps on Tue, 21 December 2021, 10:59:39
Unpopular opinions:

1. Normal space bars are stupid and a gigantic waste of space and a waste of everyone's time and money trying to make sure they are stable and spending stupid time and money lubing etc.
2. Caps lock sucks is by far the worst placed key on a keyboard. Tab or Control makes much more sense there. I have caps lock disabled at all times via AHK because it's just a waste of space.

Edit: unironically I am running a GB for SA split spacebars
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: OhKeycaps on Tue, 21 December 2021, 11:01:51
Bigger tactility =/= better tactile switch. 

The modern coiled cabled are useless and unpractical.
Thock= good mmm yum thockkkk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wait wait wait. Go UP in switch height? You want more wobble?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Tue, 21 December 2021, 11:14:02
How wobbly are beam springs?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: -Space-NATO- on Tue, 21 December 2021, 12:03:32
How wobbly are beam springs?

About this [ ] much.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Tue, 21 December 2021, 15:37:12
Wait wait wait. Go UP in switch height? You want more wobble?
Not necessarily, it was just an idea I had, a taller switch could have more room for a better mechanism maybe? I just don't see how much more improvment you can make in the small MX switch.
Alps switches aren't much bigger than the MX but as Zeal is working for a very long time on putting a tactile leaf in the MX form factor I'd say that form factor is pretty limited.

Thock= good mmm yum thockkkk


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I still don't know what is thock , I thought it was low pitched bottom out sound but seem like people slap the "thock" label on whatever sound they found to be pleasing.
Low pitched switch? thock.
Super hollow keyboard? thock.
Stem clacking on the bottom housing? thock.
I like this sound? it's thock.

Unpopular opinions:

1. Normal space bars are stupid and a gigantic waste of space and a waste of everyone's time and money trying to make sure they are stable and spending stupid time and money lubing etc.
2. Caps lock sucks is by far the worst placed key on a keyboard. Tab or Control makes much more sense there. I have caps lock disabled at all times via AHK because it's just a waste of space.

Edit: unironically I am running a GB for SA split spacebars
I think the Backslash button is as worst as the Caps Lock if not more, at least the Caps Lock have a usage for less tech savvy people, but the Backslash, correct me if I'm wrong has very little specific usage mainly in coding, we could have had a big ass enter keycap for everyone, instead we got ANSI and ISO... I diactivate the Backslash button on my keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: OhKeycaps on Tue, 21 December 2021, 15:49:17
Wait wait wait. Go UP in switch height? You want more wobble?
Not necessarily, it was just an idea I had, a taller switch could have more room for a better mechanism maybe? I just don't see how much more improvment you can make in the small MX switch.
Alps switches aren't much bigger than the MX but as Zeal is working for a very long time on putting a tactile leaf in the MX form factor I'd say that form factor is pretty limited.

Thock= good mmm yum thockkkk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I still don't know what is thock , I thought it was low pitched bottom out sound but seem like people slap the "thock" label on whatever sound they found to be pleasing.
Low pitched switch? thock.
Super hollow keyboard? thock.
Stem clacking on the bottom housing? thock.
I like this sound? it's thock.

Unpopular opinions:

1. Normal space bars are stupid and a gigantic waste of space and a waste of everyone's time and money trying to make sure they are stable and spending stupid time and money lubing etc.
2. Caps lock sucks is by far the worst placed key on a keyboard. Tab or Control makes much more sense there. I have caps lock disabled at all times via AHK because it's just a waste of space.

Edit: unironically I am running a GB for SA split spacebars
I think the Backslash button is as worst as the Caps Lock if not more, at least the Caps Lock have a usage for less tech savvy people, but the Backslash, correct me if I'm wrong has very little specific usage mainly in coding, we could have had a big ass enter keycap for everyone, instead we got ANSI and ISO... I diactivate the Backslash button on my keyboards.

I code, so I actually do need it sometimes when I need to escape a character in regex or something, or when typing out a windows file path. I could see why most people would want a big enter there instead, however it's not as obnoxious as caps lock because it's not on the home row.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 21 December 2021, 16:37:59
I think the Backslash button is as worst as the Caps Lock if not more, at least the Caps Lock have a usage for less tech savvy people, but the Backslash, correct me if I'm wrong has very little specific usage mainly in coding, we could have had a big ass enter keycap for everyone, instead we got ANSI and ISO... I diactivate the Backslash button on my keyboards.

  What's the purpose of making the enter key unnecesarily large when it is operated by the smallest finger on your hand? 

  Since I'm part of the Command Line Master Race I use backslash and pipe quite often.  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Tue, 21 December 2021, 16:43:05
I think the Backslash button is as worst as the Caps Lock if not more, at least the Caps Lock have a usage for less tech savvy people, but the Backslash, correct me if I'm wrong has very little specific usage mainly in coding, we could have had a big ass enter keycap for everyone, instead we got ANSI and ISO... I diactivate the Backslash button on my keyboards.

  What's the purpose of making the enter key unnecesarily large when it is operated by the smallest finger on your hand? 

  Since I'm part of the Command Line Master Race I use backslash and pipe quite often.  :D
Same for Delete....

Need a type 40 kitting 1800 or similar to full size if that makes any sense. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: OhKeycaps on Tue, 21 December 2021, 17:48:34
I think the Backslash button is as worst as the Caps Lock if not more, at least the Caps Lock have a usage for less tech savvy people, but the Backslash, correct me if I'm wrong has very little specific usage mainly in coding, we could have had a big ass enter keycap for everyone, instead we got ANSI and ISO... I diactivate the Backslash button on my keyboards.

  What's the purpose of making the enter key unnecesarily large when it is operated by the smallest finger on your hand? 

  Since I'm part of the Command Line Master Race I use backslash and pipe quite often.  :D
Same for Delete....

Need a type 40 kitting 1800 or similar to full size if that makes any sense. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Actually I use delete all the time, but I hate where it is on a standard keyboard. I have an ergodox and I moved it to the key directly under 'C' on my ergodox.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kahlilnc on Tue, 21 December 2021, 23:26:09
I just have a lot of artisans in a box


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Where do you get the majority of your artisans from? I do not have enough... I haven't been as active on Mechmarket as of recent so I feel as if I missing all of the most recent raffles.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Tue, 21 December 2021, 23:28:42
I get most of mine from continually joining raffles the selling some to fund more raffles


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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: oofers on Sat, 25 December 2021, 07:12:05
I cannot understand why there are so many different linear switches coming out. They all feel the same! Smoothness stops mattering after a certain point and has already been perfected with contactless switches and weight can usually be changed very easily by the user. The only reason I can think of is the sound, but that doesn't mean there should be so many switches that feel pretty much the same.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Sat, 25 December 2021, 14:35:01
The hobby is thirsty for weeb colored switches and maximum thock
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: OhKeycaps on Sun, 26 December 2021, 22:28:07
I get most of mine from continually joining raffles the selling some to fund more raffles


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With that said I want to make a new custom colored linear switch
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: lucidinertia on Wed, 29 December 2021, 10:38:20
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Wed, 29 December 2021, 22:00:56
  • Anything less than 96% is too small and not very useful
  • Multi-device bluetooth switching is required
  • Alphas should click.  Numerals should click louder.  Space bar should wake your spouse.  Caps lock, lord forbid, should wake your neighbors

Finally, a post of truly unpopular keyboard opinions  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jony_m on Wed, 05 January 2022, 15:13:59
  • Anything less than 96% is too small and not very useful
  • Multi-device bluetooth switching is required
  • Alphas should click.  Numerals should click louder.  Space bar should wake your spouse.  Caps lock, lord forbid, should wake your neighbors

Your crimes to humanity have gone unpunished far too long. Who the hell uses caps lock. Stepped Control all the way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 05 January 2022, 15:50:01

"caps lock" is merely a cruel torture device
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Wed, 05 January 2022, 16:24:18

"caps lock" is merely a cruel torture device
It's a necessary evil for some of us who need to complete our work in all caps. 

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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheHawkNY on Wed, 05 January 2022, 17:28:45
The computer keyboard is like the US Government - it worked fine when it was introduced, and now it is woefully ineffective because it hasn't recognized that a lot of things have changed.

If 30 years ago, they had replaced the F1-F12 buttons with three big buttons for "Copy", "Paste", and "Switch" (Alt+Tab), we would have flying cars by now.  (JK the benefits of all of that productivity would have gone to the rich and Bezos would be a trillionaire, but it's nice to imagine a world where both keyboards and the US Government had evolved.)

Setting up personalized keyboard shortcuts and macros somehow has not become an intuitive, easy to use, integrated part of the OS that almost everyone does.  You don't have a set of preconfigured keyboard profiles stored in the cloud that you can use on any computer just by logging in. 

The whole numpad area should be replaced with a column of 4u LED buttons whose text functionality can be set manually by users and developers.  We still don't have a set of buttons that just are shortcuts to the most commonly used functionalities of whatever application you're using.  We could have AI do this!  It wouldn't even be that hard!  Most of my code gets written by Github Copilot now, all I do is hit tab, but god forbid I accidentally open VIM, I have to remember the sequence of characters required to close it?  Remote controls for smart tv's now have voice recognition, and yet the functionality of keyboards hasn't improved at all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 05 January 2022, 18:59:09

It's a necessary evil for some of us who need to complete our work in all caps. 


  Legal requirements or something?  Sounds brutal. 

  Which is funny for me to say because though I never type in all caps...I actually prefer to write in all capitals.  ;) 



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Thu, 06 January 2022, 03:06:23
How can you prefer to write in all caps? It's so woefully inefficient.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Thu, 06 January 2022, 08:17:04
Speaking from experience, when your cursive looks like garbage, then writing in caps looks better. It is, however, very slow.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 06 January 2022, 08:37:28

when your cursive looks like garbage


Badly written cursive is considerably harder to read than badly written capitals.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 06 January 2022, 17:19:59
How can you prefer to write in all caps? It's so woefully inefficient.

Inefficient how so?  Feels efficient and effective to me.  The characters are easier to form and more distinct, particularly when using random pencils or cheap ball point pens, and I also greatly prefer the "style" my capitals have.  My father used to also write in caps a lot, so I'm sure I subliminally got it from seeing his writing.   

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddot on Thu, 06 January 2022, 17:22:24
It's a necessary evil for some of us who need to complete our work in all caps. 
  Legal requirements or something?  Sounds brutal. 

The notes on architectural and engineering drawings are still typically done in all caps.  I agree that the caps lock key doesn't need to take up such a prominent place on the keyboard and would be perfectly fine on a layer, but it still has uses for some people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hussar_name on Thu, 13 January 2022, 03:30:37
It's a necessary evil for some of us who need to complete our work in all caps. 
  Legal requirements or something?  Sounds brutal. 

The notes on architectural and engineering drawings are still typically done in all caps.  I agree that the caps lock key doesn't need to take up such a prominent place on the keyboard and would be perfectly fine on a layer, but it still has uses for some people.

There are autocad shortcuts to make the text uppercase all at once. Furthermore I rarely write in caps... and I do a lot of drawings.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ddot on Thu, 13 January 2022, 11:29:02
There are autocad shortcuts to make the text uppercase all at once. Furthermore I rarely write in caps... and I do a lot of drawings.

Correct, those commands do exist and I use them from time to time.  Actually if I'm writing a larger block of text, I'm more likely to do it in a text editor, change it to uppercase there and copy it over.  But if I'm just bouncing around, touching a few things up and adding bits here and there, just switching on caps lock is the easiest.

As for why it's done this way, who knows.  Convention?  Archaic tradition that just hasn't changed?  It was the way I was taught when I started and the way our company does them.  Looking at other drawings that I see from other consultants, I'd say the vast majority of them use all caps, at least for short notes.  Maybe less so for page style specifications.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Fri, 28 January 2022, 20:39:18
The computer keyboard is like the US Government - it worked fine when it was introduced, and now it is woefully ineffective because it hasn't recognized that a lot of things have changed.

If 30 years ago, they had replaced the F1-F12 buttons with three big buttons for "Copy", "Paste", and "Switch" (Alt+Tab), we would have flying cars by now.  (JK the benefits of all of that productivity would have gone to the rich and Bezos would be a trillionaire, but it's nice to imagine a world where both keyboards and the US Government had evolved.)

Setting up personalized keyboard shortcuts and macros somehow has not become an intuitive, easy to use, integrated part of the OS that almost everyone does.  You don't have a set of preconfigured keyboard profiles stored in the cloud that you can use on any computer just by logging in. 

The whole numpad area should be replaced with a column of 4u LED buttons whose text functionality can be set manually by users and developers.  We still don't have a set of buttons that just are shortcuts to the most commonly used functionalities of whatever application you're using.  We could have AI do this!  It wouldn't even be that hard!  Most of my code gets written by Github Copilot now, all I do is hit tab, but god forbid I accidentally open VIM, I have to remember the sequence of characters required to close it?  Remote controls for smart tv's now have voice recognition, and yet the functionality of keyboards hasn't improved at all.

I get what you're saying, I really do, but I think that this isn't that efficient for most of us who type on the regular. Most of us are dependent on keys being exactly where we think they are, as we don't look at the keyboard when we're typing. Many hunt-and-peckists may find the changing macros based on use-case more efficient, but not the rest of us since we're not looking. I also like the number pad, and I have a different solution to how to save space with the numbers, which I can go into in another reply.

I think your Function key thing has merit, but the nature of legacy applications, and indeed new ones whose programmers seek efficient schemes to use the keyboard, like something as trivial as the game Out Of The Park Baseball, would need to have stopped programming this in. I use some software that requires function key usage up to F24 actually at work, and I would be content with battlecruisers being used there and smaller keyboards for home usage. Indeed, I have only F5 and F8 currently on my keyboard, and it works great. I think this is an ideal situation.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Mon, 31 January 2022, 14:20:34
Zeal Clickiez really exposed how redundant the MX switch market has gotten lately. We could have just sold top/bottom housings, springs, and stems separately instead of constantly rebranding the same combinations with different names.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: squizzler on Mon, 31 January 2022, 14:45:40

Kailh is the real MVP of the mechanical keyboard community, I don’t think it’s fair to say they “innovated a bit”. 
While the crowd mentality seems to be stuck on revolving around countless recolors, dozens of HP style switch every month, hype and useless aesthetics, Kailh is actually trying to push this community forward, and they do whatever they can on the limited MX form factor.
Hot swap sockets [and v2] (!!), click bar, BOX design, round BOX design, their collabs with NK_ (Creams, BB, Muted Jades), and much more. 

Maybe if we’re not going to ditch the MX form factor, the next step is to go up in switch height?…

BTW, I agree that the MX switch family tree isn’t that different from each other when you look at the 100s of versions of the HP style switch, or countless versions of the linear switches, but you can’t honestly say you don’t feel a difference between a Cherry MX Brown and Boba U4T for example, or BOX Jade vs Cherry MX Blue.
Maybe in comparison to something entirely different such as buckling springs or topre the variations in the MX world seems minuscule, I wouldn’t know I haven’t used anything other than MX type switches, but you can definitely feel a difference when using different weights and tactile mechanisms.
Agree somewhat, whilst am wary giving my money to Chinese products in protest of that country's government policies (and proudly switched - excuse the pun - back to Cherry) they have - to give them their due - progressed beyond clones. I wonder if the firm could ditch the MX-mount in favour of their hollow stem mount used on the KO switch. As well as the technical benefits for backlighting owning their mount offers an opportunity to own the whole design.

It is also regrettable that the Omron B3K design (used as Romer-G in Logitech) didn't get to the point where it supported an aftermarket for caps either, let alone spawned clones. But maybe these new designs did not have the ambition to dislodge MX inspired designs.

Thus my controversial opinion is for a new, and open, switch standard that bins the mounting plate which places a limit on the size of switch modules. These should be replaced with the metal clip contraptions inspired by those used by  Honeywell / Micro-Switch SW series (https://telcontar.net/KBK/Micro_Switch/SW). Switch units are thus liberated to be almost a full key unit (19mm) to a side as per Honeywell and IBM beam springs - although I would specify these must be shorter than the legacy designs for ergonomic reasons. The reduced stack height above the circuit board could be countered by allowing parts of the switch to protrude through as per the Cherry Low Profile switch. The new switch design would of course have a hollow stem for stable cap mounting incorporating a light well to centrally illuminate the legends.

I don't happen to think a spring-clip system of retaining the switches should even be any more expensive than a mounting plate; it's surely no different from the countless other bits of bent metal that make up switches amongst other things.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: nickyteddy on Mon, 31 January 2022, 15:14:14
  • Anything less than 96% is too small and not very useful

I totally agree. There aren't enough keys on anything below 1800 to be useful. On that note, I think TKL is BY FAR the worst size a keyboard can be. Not small enough for small keeb enthusiasts and not big enough to be useful. Just the wrong size for everyone.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Username on Tue, 01 February 2022, 12:32:57
This may be absolute heresy on a board like this, but I kinda like rubber domes more than mechanical switches. Idk, but I find I type faster on them. Maybe because I'm used to MX reds which are too light for me and I tend to mis-hit keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 01 February 2022, 14:21:56
Likewise, people have big conversations about the cost of GMK keycaps. It's astonishing it's even a subject, since there are rubber-dome keyboards out there with basically rubber keycaps. Or super-cheap thin mass-produced dye-sub.

We're all talking about the intricacies of sort of 3D printing shaped-plastic [double-shot keycaps], lots of expense and shipping and human labour involved - this shouldn't even exist.

Yes, we all want customized keycaps [and one size doesn't fit all], but this is like a 1960s technology we're still struggling with, when the most efficient manufacturing methods have probably moved on from double-shot plastic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hussar_name on Tue, 01 February 2022, 15:37:18
Likewise, people have big conversations about the cost of GMK keycaps. It's astonishing it's even a subject, since there are rubber-dome keyboards out there with basically rubber keycaps. Or super-cheap thin mass-produced dye-sub.

We're all talking about the intricacies of sort of 3D printing shaped-plastic [double-shot keycaps], lots of expense and shipping and human labour involved - this shouldn't even exist.

Yes, we all want customized keycaps [and one size doesn't fit all], but this is like a 1960s technology we're still struggling with, when the most efficient manufacturing methods have probably moved on from double-shot plastic.

Moved on. Ducking retrogrades that think that evolution is focused on the needs of the people. Evolution of technology is based on what the industry needs. Consumers try to modify if voting with their money
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 01 February 2022, 15:48:06
You are absolutely right, of course. All this customization is because of demands at the user-end, the cost-efficiency of modern keyboards is because industry has moved on.

We're using some antiquated methods for custom keyboard construction, because that's what's available to people who are modifying their keyboards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 01 February 2022, 20:00:21
This may be absolute heresy on a board like this, but I kinda like rubber domes more than mechanical switches. Idk, but I find I type faster on them. Maybe because I'm used to MX reds which are too light for me and I tend to mis-hit keys.

Totally legit man. A lot of people in real life are like that. Have you tried blues?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: butre on Tue, 01 February 2022, 22:06:49
southpaw boards are better for everyone, regardless of handedness.

for people who build spreadsheets it allows use of the mouse or cursor keys in the right hand and numpad in the left.  for people who spend most of their time typing it allows you to more easily center your alpha cluster in front of your monitor.  for gamers it shrinks the distance between your hands.  ironically, lefties are the only group of people where the benefits become a little shaky
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Frugivore on Wed, 02 February 2022, 08:45:42
I think this might ruffle some feathers. Normal (not expanded) 75% is the only good layout. Here's why, if you don't need a Numpad then TKL is useless, It is just a bigger 75%. Function keys are very useful especially for power users and whatnot. And arrow keys are not super imported until you have a use for them then you want to die if you don't have them. Those are the main reasons there are some smaller ones too. like the physical size.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Wed, 02 February 2022, 09:04:31
Not a fan of TKL either.  The look of a KB with just the number pad lobbed off is a lazy design.

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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: vutid on Wed, 02 February 2022, 17:04:38
205g0 on stabs wire is stupid
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hussar_name on Fri, 04 February 2022, 15:58:01
southpaw boards are better for everyone, regardless of handedness.

for people who build spreadsheets it allows use of the mouse or cursor keys in the right hand and numpad in the left.  for people who spend most of their time typing it allows you to more easily center your alpha cluster in front of your monitor.  for gamers it shrinks the distance between your hands.  ironically, lefties are the only group of people where the benefits become a little shaky

Reading / writing material is on the left (lefty here). Can't have a numpad there.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sanakhanum on Sun, 13 February 2022, 11:51:17
Right, those orders really do exist and I use them every now and then. As a matter of fact in the event that I'm composing a bigger square of text, I'm bound to do it in a content tool, change it to capitalized there and duplicate it over. In any case, assuming that I'm simply bobbing near, finishing a couple of things up and adding pieces to a great extent, turning on covers lock is the most straightforward.

Tutuapp (https://tutuapp.uno/) 9Apps (https://9apps.ooo/) Showbox (https://showbox.kim/)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 14 February 2022, 10:11:55
This may be absolute heresy on a board like this, but I kinda like rubber domes more than mechanical switches. Idk, but I find I type faster on them. Maybe because I'm used to MX reds which are too light for me and I tend to mis-hit keys.

Totally legit man. A lot of people in real life are like that. Have you tried blues?

I think an argument could be made that, as a linear, MX red is too light for the average user. There have been some very nice rubber dome boards, and some very terrible rubber dome boards. Most of the modern ones are terrible, but I have been pleasantly surprised.

There was a random cheap Logitech board I briefly used in a computer lab recently that I would take over any MX switch I have tried.

I think that speaks more for my opinion of the MX design than it does rubber domes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: treeleaf64 on Wed, 16 February 2022, 18:06:00

"caps lock" is merely a cruel torture device
It's a necessary evil for some of us who need to complete our work in all caps. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


SORRY I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND, COULD YOU SPEAK UP A LITTLE BIT?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Thu, 17 February 2022, 09:21:51
Plate mount stabs are superior to pcb mount stabs, and I never had a plate mount stab or wire pop out even with super tight keycaps.

Also, there's no reason for screw in plate mount stabs to not be invented already.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 17 February 2022, 10:08:14
Plate mount stabs are superior to pcb mount stabs, and I never had a plate mount stab or wire pop out even with super tight keycaps.

Also, there's no reason for screw in plate mount stabs to not be invented already.

I don't even like anything other than Costar anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 17 February 2022, 10:36:22
I just live with inferior stabilizers since there is little or nothing else to do.

Personally, I think that dummy switch heads (or, better, switches that could be brought to life if wanted) would be the way to go.

But it would take some work and tuning to get it right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sonmezroy on Sat, 19 February 2022, 03:24:15
I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SmokrJokr on Sat, 19 February 2022, 16:00:43
- majority of keyboard youtubers just regurgitate each other, offer little to no value to the community, their opinions are regurgitated amongst themselves and are all shills. the fact that some of them have made tutorials on, for example, how to lube switches, and still pay others to lube their switches is not worth respecting
- expensive keyboards does not equal custom keyboards, its just buying really good engineering
- cherry profile and keyboard angles need to be obsolete
- PBT over ABS all day
- someones heavy modded gk61 with aliexpress keycaps and twenty mods looks better to me than someones Mr Suit
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: selsik on Sun, 20 February 2022, 04:51:45
I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

So you think they're practical or not? Double negative :D

1. majority of keyboard youtubers just regurgitate each other, offer little to no value to the community, their opinions are regurgitated amongst themselves and are all shills. the fact that some of them have made tutorials on, for example, how to lube switches, and still pay others to lube their switches is not worth respecting
2. expensive keyboards does not equal custom keyboards, its just buying really good engineering
3. cherry profile and keyboard angles need to be obsolete
4. PBT over ABS all day
5. someones heavy modded gk61 with aliexpress keycaps and twenty mods looks better to me than someones Mr Suit


Agreed on point 1, especially true for keyboard memetubers that focus on clickbait rather than thoughtful reviews. Don't wanna say names, you probably already know who.

Point 2 is self contradicting. A DIY kit, cheap or expensive is as custom as it gets because it includes no stabs, switches, or keycaps; and you get to choose plate material and decide if you install foam or not. For this reason no 2 DIY kits will sound or feel the same. How does this NOT equal a custom keyboard in your eyes?

Point 3 and 5 totally follow the purpose of this thread :D

Point 4 does not follow the purpose of this thread.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: SmokrJokr on Wed, 23 February 2022, 17:28:34
I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

So you think they're practical or not? Double negative :D

1. majority of keyboard youtubers just regurgitate each other, offer little to no value to the community, their opinions are regurgitated amongst themselves and are all shills. the fact that some of them have made tutorials on, for example, how to lube switches, and still pay others to lube their switches is not worth respecting
2. expensive keyboards does not equal custom keyboards, its just buying really good engineering
3. cherry profile and keyboard angles need to be obsolete
4. PBT over ABS all day
5. someones heavy modded gk61 with aliexpress keycaps and twenty mods looks better to me than someones Mr Suit


Agreed on point 1, especially true for keyboard memetubers that focus on clickbait rather than thoughtful reviews. Don't wanna say names, you probably already know who.

Point 2 is self contradicting. A DIY kit, cheap or expensive is as custom as it gets because it includes no stabs, switches, or keycaps; and you get to choose plate material and decide if you install foam or not. For this reason no 2 DIY kits will sound or feel the same. How does this NOT equal a custom keyboard in your eyes?

Point 3 and 5 totally follow the purpose of this thread :D

Point 4 does not follow the purpose of this thread.

Youre right, technically those kits are considered DIY but I cant consider it a custom because the build is almost guaranteed to be in the middle to top tier, provided the person doesnt just end up putting Jades in their board, its guaranteed to sound good. Maybe because ive spent hours fine tuning a board to my liking that I prefer the time someone went through to mod the hell out of their keyboard, as opposed to buying a kit with mods (read as foams) included. Not sure if Im making sense right now.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 24 February 2022, 08:49:56
provided the person doesnt just end up putting Jades in their board, its guaranteed to sound good.

Those are fighting words.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tastenplatte on Thu, 24 February 2022, 08:56:46
I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

I just like 65% much more, arrow keys are a gamechanger for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 24 February 2022, 09:12:46
I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

I just like 65% much more, arrow keys are a gamechanger for me.

Yup. I think the ideal form factor/layout is the 68 key boards like the Miya Pro. Everything you need, nothing you don't, and universal cap compatibility. I have a DZ60 I ordered years ago now that I haven't even assembled because I want dedicated arrow keys and haven't found just the right combination of random caps for it. 65-75% is definitely the sweet spot.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Thu, 24 February 2022, 15:18:27
I dont think 60% keyboards arent pratical, its a matter of use, for someone who heavily coding or making some works under excel or such software,

I just like 65% much more, arrow keys are a gamechanger for me.
With QMK 60% is very usable for people who dependent on arrow keys, the right modifiers become arrows on tap with original function on hold
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sat, 26 February 2022, 04:57:07
Yup. I think the ideal form factor/layout is the 68 key boards like the Miya Pro. Everything you need, nothing you don't...

(https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/images/products/large_MY68C2WLLPn2Ba_main.jpg)

(For example)

Okay, so no number pad—but no function keys? How do you control your sound volume or display brightness? And how do you repeat searches (F3)? Do you use a third-party brightness-control utility instead, whose shortcut keys you can choose? And set up a key-combination for Find Next?

I love f-keys. They give you a whole extra row of keys to use with custom shortcuts (which I use for scripts I've coded, extended characters like dashes, "bullets", etc.).

I get the TKL thing—your mouse is closer, okay. But what's so objectionable about f-keys? They take up no horizontal space, and what do you gain by having 1" more space between your keyboard and display?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: c.a.t. on Sat, 26 February 2022, 05:54:51
I agree with you, a lot of youtube video don't consider people needs and budget when making videos... Some (not all) try to impress with really expensive spectacular built, but it dos not serve the community.. That's why I start my channel, it is not spectacular, and I don't have 3 500 000 of views by videos and 28 000 subscribers, but I make video thinking of the needs I have when I'm looking to buy switches, plate, keycaps... That really can help for the community (I think...).
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxsWMZAyUwT67nikED3sL_g

Feel free to give me feedbacks! Thanks!

Personnaly, I can't stand PBT keycaps (ecxcept for IBM Model M - F), ABS doubleshot for the win ! haha
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Mon, 28 February 2022, 10:43:11
I agree with you, a lot of youtube video don't consider people needs and budget when making videos... Some (not all) try to impress with really expensive spectacular built, but it dos not serve the community.. That's why I start my channel, it is not spectacular, and I don't have 3 500 000 of views by videos and 28 000 subscribers, but I make video thinking of the needs I have when I'm looking to buy switches, plate, keycaps... That really can help for the community (I think...).
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxsWMZAyUwT67nikED3sL_g

Feel free to give me feedbacks! Thanks!

Personnaly, I can't stand PBT keycaps (ecxcept for IBM Model M - F), ABS doubleshot for the win ! haha
If I may, you might want to consider using a more neutral sounding keyboard, the Tofu along with the brass plate gives a very metallic sound signature that takes over the sound of the switches.

I'm familiar with your channel and watched a bit of the sound tests, I own quite a bit of the switches you featured and while the sound difference is very noticable in my set ups, with your Tofu set up keyboard the sound difference is very small, almost sounds the same.
Also the spacebar rattles which takes away a lot from the sound record.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: c.a.t. on Mon, 28 February 2022, 13:09:19
Thank you for your feedback, it is really appreciated!! The reason I used this case/plate is because it is a very mainstream built, so people could hear what switches sound in it! But your right, it certainly not the best board to ear switches… You have a suggestion of case/ plate?
I will change my mic soon, it will help too! For the space bar, omg your are right, it is horrific lol.. but by the time I realized it, I was 8 switches sound tests too far, so I didn’t want to fixe it because I want the comparison possible between each, that was more important for me then the actual sounding of the board.., But it is fixed now, for the next videos! ;)

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Tue, 01 March 2022, 08:43:03
Yup. I think the ideal form factor/layout is the 68 key boards like the Miya Pro. Everything you need, nothing you don't...

Show Image
(https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/images/products/large_MY68C2WLLPn2Ba_main.jpg)


(For example)

Okay, so no number pad—but no function keys? How do you control your sound volume or display brightness? And how do you repeat searches (F3)? Do you use a third-party brightness-control utility instead, whose shortcut keys you can choose? And set up a key-combination for Find Next?

I love f-keys. They give you a whole extra row of keys to use with custom shortcuts (which I use for scripts I've coded, extended characters like dashes, "bullets", etc.).

I get the TKL thing—your mouse is closer, okay. But what's so objectionable about f-keys? They take up no horizontal space, and what do you gain by having 1" more space between your keyboard and display?

I usually only use a laptop at work, and only because they finally recycled the old desktops (which I prefer). I would have to map volume controls to the F keys manually otherwise (I don't have many boards that run fancy firmwares to begin with). My volume is usually muted at work either way. If I use a laptop at home, I just use it the way it is most times. I never really change my screen brightness.

I don't search for specific words often. Makes sense for programmers/coders. I haven't done any of that in years.

I don't really even care about the mouse being closer. I use a fullsize keyboard with my desktop at home, since I have a sliding keyboard tray for it. That's my first (known) mechanical, my trusty old Corsair K70. I use the volume slider on that board for volume. Ironically, I use a TG3 "cop keyboard" at home more than anything with my HTPC (Dell SFF I picked up for almost nothing at a recycler). That has f keys and I never use them. Even with that, I rarely change the volume anyway so don't use any hotkeys for it.

The F keys have more purpose for me for making selections in a preboot environment than anything else. Even that I use so infrequently with a mechanical keyboard, they could easily be handled with layering.

Those 68 key boards give me portability and just a tiny bit more work space for spreading out the 2-3+ random laptop computers I might have splayed out on the desk at a given time at work. Ironically, I have never even used one yet. I have one of those cheap Magicforce boards ripped apart to try to handwire SMK switches into though. Then I could carry it around with me easily at work.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Mon, 07 March 2022, 19:48:27
All 60%+ keebs should have a hotswap option.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AeternusCo on Sat, 12 March 2022, 12:27:26
If you're using a 40%/ergo/ortho/alice layout with dedicated arrows on base layer, you're missing the point.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sun, 13 March 2022, 21:15:26
Unpopular opinions? Let me see...
- Clickies are the worst type of switch.
- Cheap Tai Hao Caps are better value than most GMK sets
- Getting into customs is way too difficult for most people, and getting into vintage keyboards is almost indecipherable.
- Garish colors have no place on a keyboard, nor does RGB
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Mon, 14 March 2022, 07:44:10
Unpopular opinions? Let me see...
- Clickies are the worst type of switch.
depending on the situation, i'd say it is objectively true
- Cheap Tai Hao Caps are better value than most GMK sets
This is just true, GMK is extremely bad value, but most peoples buying GMK sets are not about the value, but the aesthetics and legacy of them.
- Getting into customs is way too difficult for most people, and getting into vintage keyboards is almost indecipherable.
Some companies are trying to make custom easier, like GMMK and WASD from the top of my head, and for vintage yeah it is a mess but peoples at deskauthority are also keeping a good repository of them helping to make more sense :)
- Garish colors have no place on a keyboard, nor does RGB
that is opinion :) and i would tend to agree even though i do own a bright pink keyboard

All 60%+ keebs should have a hotswap option.
i would love to live in a world with a 122% hotswap :) (and no not the Boston, if i want my 122% i want a full bottom row :))
only problem is that the trend is to space saving at all cost, do 90% of the boards designed seem to be 60% or smaller and no one seems to be willing to adventure into the nicher market of 100+% :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 14 March 2022, 17:13:16
- Clickies are the worst type of switch.

First off, I see that you've very recently joined. I don't watch the New Members posts as aggressively as I had been able to in the past. Welcome to our eclectic and eccentric band of lunatics.  :D

I would say that's probably the most popular opinion. People seem to tend to write off clickies entirely before they've ever tried any good ones ... unfortunately. I was weird and actually liked MX blue (people make mistakes), but it isn't like much besides MX red in that family is common enough to appeal to the senseless masses anyway as an alternative. MX clear and black are too niche, MX brown is ... well ... MX brown.

The fact that I was once a mutant space alien who actually liked MX blue is probably all that allowed me an open enough mind to go down the wonderful rabbit hole of niche and/or vintage clicky mechanisms ... many of which are simply fantastic. Unequaled, in my opinion ... and I'm pretty sure that is the minority opinion in places outside of Deskthority.

MX clickies, having now had a more rounded/broader experience, are pretty objectively bad. I wouldn't put them below the worst MX tactiles ... but not far behind. If you haven't tried any good alternative mechanisms, however, you don't really have a leg to stand on in making that statement.

- Cheap Tai Hao Caps are better value than most GMK sets

Everything is a better value than GMK, in my opinion.  ;D

That may actually be unpopular though.

- Getting into customs is way too difficult for most people, and getting into vintage keyboards is almost indecipherable.

What do you consider to be custom? Custom can be as simple as getting some garbage MX (or clone) board on Ebay for $20 and making it your own. You can pick up a brand new Magicforce 68 for $30 pretty commonly right now. If you're handy with a soldering iron, it is pretty easy to swap in whatever you would like to use in it. I can attest to the surprisingly high quality of the pads/vias for the price. Police surplus TG3 keyboards can be had for dirt cheap with MX blacks as well if you keep an eye out, and those are tanks.

If soldering is what you mean by difficult, there are plenty of affordable hot swap boards, even if you're dealing with cheapie Amazon Outemu (Gaote) hot swap boards that only accept Outemu-ish switches.

This hobby isn't all about drooling over the most popular $300+ GB, etc. The switches are what really matter ... and some of the best ones around are dirt cheap, ironically.

What do you need deciphered about vintage boards? I'm not Chyros (who you should binge watch if you want to go down that rabbit hole), but I have a pretty good understanding of most of the highlights, and experience with a good number of the ye olde forgotten switch mechanisms.

- Garish colors have no place on a keyboard, nor does RGB

I think that both of these are relatively popular opinions, although that matter certainly isn't settled one way or the other. I agree myself, but aesthetics are totally subjective. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm not looking at the board while I'm typing on it anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Mon, 14 March 2022, 17:44:22
Quote
First off, I see that you've very recently joined. I don't watch the New Members posts as aggressively as I had been able to in the past. Welcome to our eclectic and eccentric band of lunatics.  :D
Thanks, I decided to make an account on this and DT after I needed a place to sell some keeb related stuff but REALLY didn't want to make a reddit account (I cut free from that place and have no intention of going back)
Quote
MX clickies, having now had a more rounded/broader experience, are pretty objectively bad. I wouldn't put them below the worst MX tactiles ... but not far behind.
I haven't been able to get a full board, but I have tried fidget style single switches and I have to say that the blue and white alps I've tried feel a bit too soft. Now obviously I can't claim that some loose switches speak for a switch as a whole, but that's just been my take. It's not a bad thing, but I'd love to try some alps tactiles as I really like heavy tactility (Hopefully I could even find some amber alps). I've also tried click bar switches and found them to be dissapointing. My box navies aren't tactile enough for me, though I did like the light crisp feeling of Kailh Choc whites. Maybe it's the weight of the switch that's drowning out the tactility. A buckling springs board is next on my list, though it probably won't be for a while since I may have spent a little much on my upcoming Clickiez build.
Quote
What do you consider to be custom?
A custom IMHO is something made from either a kit or a series of parts (PCB, case, etc, etc)
I have legitimately no clue how anyone is supposed to match up PCBs with cases that aren't explicitly made for one another and the explanation I was given was essentially that it was a roll of the dice.
Quote
What do you need deciphered about vintage boards?
Where to get them, how to tell a good deal, read part numbers, and generally not get taken for a ride. I've been told all the usual answers of ebay, thrift stores, recycling centers, and whatnot but because of where I am a vintage keyboard is as rare as it gets in the wild.
Quote
I'm not Chyros (who you should binge watch if you want to go down that rabbit hole)
Funny you should mention him, he's what really got me into the hobby. I remember spending hours working on school projects with his videos on my second monitor. Not the biggest fan anymore, but he's still got some quality stuff.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 14 March 2022, 20:03:10
At least one member of the human race thought that this was a good keyboard design:

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Tue, 15 March 2022, 03:46:37
not to mention the name
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Tue, 15 March 2022, 06:24:39
Typing about keyboards is like walking about shoes.

Oh, and also my new sig line.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Tue, 15 March 2022, 06:34:28
At least one member of the human race thought that this was a good keyboard design:

Yikes, "JIZZ"?! But yes, it's an actual product name:


(https://live.staticflickr.com/2870/9476077103_79411b53cc_z.jpg)


Then there's this USB-powered fan I saw the other day:


[attachimg=1]

All their products end with "NO"—and you charge this fan wirelessly, so they called it WINO. 😃 (Or maybe because it makes wind...?)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Tue, 15 March 2022, 20:52:25
Quote
Yikes, "JIZZ"?! But yes, it's an actual product name

My PC case was made by Computer Upgrade Kings USA. I had a coupon from a streamer and decided to get a fee keyboard and mouse with the case.

The keyboard that showed up had their name intials which showed as CUK USA. Jesus
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Wed, 16 March 2022, 03:26:21
At least one member of the human race thought that this was a good keyboard design:

hmmm, water-proof "magic Wand" keyboard... wonder what their real target audience is :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 16 March 2022, 09:32:39
Quote
First off, I see that you've very recently joined. I don't watch the New Members posts as aggressively as I had been able to in the past. Welcome to our eclectic and eccentric band of lunatics.  :D
Thanks, I decided to make an account on this and DT after I needed a place to sell some keeb related stuff but REALLY didn't want to make a reddit account (I cut free from that place and have no intention of going back)

Reddit always seemed to me to be way too sporadic and unorganized to be useful for literally anything other than asking a specific question that (hopefully) a few people will ever find while still relevant, or looking back at such historical posts based on a Google search.

Quote
MX clickies, having now had a more rounded/broader experience, are pretty objectively bad. I wouldn't put them below the worst MX tactiles ... but not far behind.
I haven't been able to get a full board, but I have tried fidget style single switches and I have to say that the blue and white alps I've tried feel a bit too soft. Now obviously I can't claim that some loose switches speak for a switch as a whole, but that's just been my take. It's not a bad thing, but I'd love to try some alps tactiles as I really like heavy tactility (Hopefully I could even find some amber alps). I've also tried click bar switches and found them to be dissapointing. My box navies aren't tactile enough for me, though I did like the light crisp feeling of Kailh Choc whites. Maybe it's the weight of the switch that's drowning out the tactility. A buckling springs board is next on my list, though it probably won't be for a while since I may have spent a little much on my upcoming Clickiez build.

There's a wide variation in feel between different examples of SKCM whites, the idea behind that being that they were likely being manufactured in various factories. There's some minor variation in SKCM blues as the design was revised. My favorite SKCM boards have pretty stiff tactility compared to anything mainstream, but you sound like you're looking for something pretty extreme. I have loose SKCM and Matias switches and they do feel significantly less tactile to me outside of a board than my perception of them mounted in a board, used at a realistic typing angle. I have not tried ambers myself. They're probably a good lead for you.

With click bar switches, you lose tactility whenever you either decrease the click bar thickness (box whites) or increase the spring weighting. The problem is you may run into issues with the click bar resetting if you go too light on the spring in comparison to the click bar. Have you tried jades? They're very tactile. Certainly more so than navies. They're lower pitched as well in the sound department. They're my favorites of the family.

I would skip buckling spring entirely if you want extreme tactility, depending on what specifically about tactility you're looking for. Buckling spring has a steep buildup of spring pressure just before the spring buckles. The buckling event itself, however, is only very lightly tactile. Extremely crisp and pleasant in the case of capacitive buckling spring ... but probably not what you're looking for.

Quote
What do you consider to be custom?
A custom IMHO is something made from either a kit or a series of parts (PCB, case, etc, etc)
I have legitimately no clue how anyone is supposed to match up PCBs with cases that aren't explicitly made for one another and the explanation I was given was essentially that it was a roll of the dice.

Most of the 60% stuff is relatively universal, otherwise ... yeah. You can usually find examples of people trying it though if you dig, unless the parts you're looking at are relatively obscure and/or new. There's so much compatibility that it even helps to cross reference parts. If a case is known to fit boards ABC, and boards XYZ are known to also fit that case, they probably fit other cases designed for A, B or C.

It always seems to me like the more universally compatible/customizable something is, the less interesting it is in turn. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote
What do you need deciphered about vintage boards?
Where to get them, how to tell a good deal, read part numbers, and generally not get taken for a ride. I've been told all the usual answers of ebay, thrift stores, recycling centers, and whatnot but because of where I am a vintage keyboard is as rare as it gets in the wild.
Quote
I'm not Chyros (who you should binge watch if you want to go down that rabbit hole)
Funny you should mention him, he's what really got me into the hobby. I remember spending hours working on school projects with his videos on my second monitor. Not the biggest fan anymore, but he's still got some quality stuff.

A good deal for SKCM is a crapshoot/Russian Roulette without knowing the switches are in perfect shape. SMK seem a lot less dramatic conditionally. Membrane buckling spring can also be a gamble due to the plastic plate rivets in conjunction with how many of those boards were made, used and abused for decades. Capacitive buckling spring is pretty bulletproof as long as somebody that doesn't know what they're doing hasn't been inside monkeying with things (all still relatively easily fixed in comparison to others). Space Invaders seem pretty low maintenance as well (I haven't felt any scratchy ones, even in random scrap gaylord piles). Even dome with slider boards can get a little gritty/scratchy, and I have one NEC blue oval board that I can tell could probably use some TLC. Forget about Futaba MA entirely in this regard.

What Ebay is so useful for is watching price trends. Do an advanced search for something you're interested in and look through the sold auctions to figure out what people have been paying lately for a board in good condition (if it needs to be). Sometimes certain boards, and even switch types, are so uncommon that it is hard to find recent sales. I have never seen a vintage mechanical board in a thrift store yet, and I used to frequent them constantly. Recycling centers will yield you better luck, electronics recyclers specifically if you can get one to let you in. As things go, less and less of the cool 70s and 80s stuff will be trickling in as time goes on. If you get to know people working there, they might give you a heads up if they get some boards you might like in.

What do you mean by reading part numbers? Not every single board model ever made has been documented. Various boards often share FCC IDs though, if you can find other examples of them in a search. You'll also find that even without an FCC ID, you can sometimes figure out what's likely in a board based just on pictures of the unique characteristics of the case and/or caps, as a lot of boards then could have been sold under various OEMs, especially with switches like Alps or SMK.

At least one member of the human race thought that this was a good keyboard design:

Hilarious. Thanks for sharing.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Wed, 16 March 2022, 14:20:22
Quote
First off, I see that you've very recently joined. I don't watch the New Members posts as aggressively as I had been able to in the past. Welcome to our eclectic and eccentric band of lunatics.  :D
Thanks, I decided to make an account on this and DT after I needed a place to sell some keeb related stuff but REALLY didn't want to make a reddit account (I cut free from that place and have no intention of going back)

Reddit always seemed to me to be way too sporadic and unorganized to be useful for literally anything other than asking a specific question that (hopefully) a few people will ever find while still relevant, or looking back at such historical posts based on a Google search.
My problems with reddit come from the culture of the site itself. It's like twitter, which I also avoid like the plague. Either way tho, r/MK was pretty much just a fashion show of gaudy MX builds. Your pretty spot on :P

Quote
There's a wide variation in feel between different examples of SKCM whites, the idea behind that being that they were likely being manufactured in various factories. There's some minor variation in SKCM blues as the design was revised. My favorite SKCM boards have pretty stiff tactility compared to anything mainstream, but you sound like you're looking for something pretty extreme. I have loose SKCM and Matias switches and they do feel significantly less tactile to me outside of a board than my perception of them mounted in a board, used at a realistic typing angle. I have not tried ambers myself, since I prefer clickies anyway. They're probably a good lead for you.
I'll try to get an AEK then. Always liked the look of those, so I guess that's going on my vintage wishlist (It'll probably cost and arm and a leg and I really don't have the cash rn so I guess I'll wait on that one :) )
Quote
I would skip buckling spring entirely if you want extreme tactility, depending on what specifically about tactility you're looking for. Buckling spring has a steep buildup of spring pressure just before the spring buckles. The buckling event itself, however, is only very lightly tactile. Extremely crisp and pleasant in the case of capacitive buckling spring ... but probably not what you're looking for.
Actually funny thing. I either like extreme tactility, or light clickies. I remember trying white chocs and liking them a lot, so hopefully buckling springs will be a nice change :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 16 March 2022, 15:30:36

I'll try to get an AEK


Put it on your ebay watch list and be patient. Apple made millions of them back in the day. Don't worry about the case yellowing, they are pretty much all like that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Thu, 17 March 2022, 03:48:43
I'll try to get an AEK then. Always liked the look of those, so I guess that's going on my vintage wishlist (It'll probably cost and arm and a leg and I really don't have the cash rn so I guess I'll wait on that one :) )
I bought an AEK in fantastic condition for £250.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 17 March 2022, 08:38:04
Quote
I would skip buckling spring entirely if you want extreme tactility, depending on what specifically about tactility you're looking for. Buckling spring has a steep buildup of spring pressure just before the spring buckles. The buckling event itself, however, is only very lightly tactile. Extremely crisp and pleasant in the case of capacitive buckling spring ... but probably not what you're looking for.
Actually funny thing. I either like extreme tactility, or light clickies. I remember trying white chocs and liking them a lot, so hopefully buckling springs will be a nice change :)

So you like everything except for middle-of-the-road? Interesting. If you haven't, I still think you should try box jades for tactility as well. The difference in both feel and sound between jades and navies is significant. You would not expect it when the only difference between them is the spring.

Capacitive buckling spring is pretty expensive to potentially find out you don't like them. Hopefully meetups start becoming more common again for situations like this.

I'll try to get an AEK then. Always liked the look of those, so I guess that's going on my vintage wishlist (It'll probably cost and arm and a leg and I really don't have the cash rn so I guess I'll wait on that one :) )
Quote
I bought an AEK in fantastic condition for £250.

I guess I should have bought up some. I see them for under $100 all of the time. Not necessarily always on Ebay though.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 17 March 2022, 22:58:22
Capacitive buckling spring is pretty expensive to potentially find out you don't like them. Hopefully meetups start becoming more common again for situations like this.
I just got a cheap 2017 Unicomp Model M with MBS. I'm willing to put 50 bucks down on a Model M even if I don't like the switches :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 18 March 2022, 07:54:51
Capacitive buckling spring is pretty expensive to potentially find out you don't like them. Hopefully meetups start becoming more common again for situations like this.
I just got a cheap 2017 Unicomp Model M with MBS. I'm willing to put 50 bucks down on a Model M even if I don't like the switches :)

Very different animals. I was still a Cherry MX zombie when I first bought a venerable Model M. I disliked the weighting, mushy bottoming out and inconsistency of feel and sound (don't recall if that particular one needs a screw or bolt mod). It was enough to send me straight back to MX blue of all things. It was a cheap F XT that finally sent me through a time machine to the 80s for good.

Having tried way more unique mechanisms these days, I can't go back to MX blue ... but I'm still not particularly fond of membrane buckling spring either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Fri, 18 March 2022, 09:27:53
Here's something that came into my mind today.

Aluminum is the best sounding plate material.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 18 March 2022, 10:12:36
Here's something that came into my mind today.

Aluminum is the best sounding plate material.

I love both aluminum and steel plates. I haven't really tried any of the hipster ones though unless it was inadvertently.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Fri, 18 March 2022, 10:18:48
Here's something that came into my mind today.

Aluminum is the best sounding plate material.

I love both aluminum and steel plates. I haven't really tried any of the hipster ones though unless it was inadvertently.
I found that PC brings out the worst aspects in the board and switches in particular and CF is just lifeless.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 18 March 2022, 10:26:52
Here's something that came into my mind today.

Aluminum is the best sounding plate material.

I love both aluminum and steel plates. I haven't really tried any of the hipster ones though unless it was inadvertently.
I found that PC brings out the worst aspects in the board and switches in particular and CF is just lifeless.

What about brass? I haven't tried it, but I have a few of them ready for boards, if I ever get to them. My concern was always mostly with rigidity. I like my boards robust and rigid. Not that PC and CF aren't also very strong materials. I also actually like pingy/reverberant materials.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Fri, 18 March 2022, 14:51:46
Here's something that came into my mind today.

Aluminum is the best sounding plate material.
(https://i.imgur.com/enisUvd.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Fri, 18 March 2022, 21:05:28
Tray mount is fine for most people.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Leopard223 on Sat, 19 March 2022, 09:51:42
What about brass? I haven't tried it, but I have a few of them ready for boards, if I ever get to them. My concern was always mostly with rigidity. I like my boards robust and rigid. Not that PC and CF aren't also very strong materials. I also actually like pingy/reverberant materials.
I haven't tried brass but I like it's sound profile, it's muted but somewhat higher pitched. I've read it's supposed to be more rigid than Alu so you might quite like it.
I would have bought it for my KBD67 Lite to try but it doesn't have standoff holes.
Tray mount is fine for most people.
I actually prefer hard mounting over softer, something about softer mounting types feels flimsy
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sat, 19 March 2022, 10:11:16
Capacitive buckling spring is pretty expensive to potentially find out you don't like them. Hopefully meetups start becoming more common again for situations like this.
I just got a cheap 2017 Unicomp Model M with MBS. I'm willing to put 50 bucks down on a Model M even if I don't like the switches :)

Very different animals. I was still a Cherry MX zombie when I first bought a venerable Model M. I disliked the weighting, mushy bottoming out and inconsistency of feel and sound (don't recall if that particular one needs a screw or bolt mod). It was enough to send me straight back to MX blue of all things. It was a cheap F XT that finally sent me through a time machine to the 80s for good.

Having tried way more unique mechanisms these days, I can't go back to MX blue ... but I'm still not particularly fond of membrane buckling spring either.
Well I just got it in today. The keyfeel is a bit inconsistent and I wasn't a fan of the tactility at first, but after typing a bit on it I'm very happy with my purchase! Really makes me want to try the model F when I can get the chance :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tribal on Sun, 20 March 2022, 04:08:15
Matias Silent Tactile switches are superior to Alps SKCM.  The “bump” at the bottom helps avoid bottoming out and the rubber helps return the key so typing is easier.  I’m over clickiness.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Mon, 21 March 2022, 03:56:28
How's the quality control for Matias boards? I ordered a Quiet Pro in 2012 and ended up returning it because the build was quite shoddy, and the switch feel was all over the place.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Tue, 22 March 2022, 00:19:25
Reminder that Model M is **** to type on in modern life.

Seriously, WTF is this stiff Model M nonsense???

At least Model F makes sense. Model M is just plasticy, stiff ****.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Tue, 22 March 2022, 15:06:22
Reminder that Model M is **** to type on in modern life.

Seriously, WTF is this stiff Model M nonsense???

At least Model F makes sense. Model M is just plasticy, stiff ****.
If you think the Model M is stiff then I can't help you man :P
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Tue, 22 March 2022, 17:32:12
Reminder that Model M is **** to type on in modern life.

Seriously, WTF is this stiff Model M nonsense???

At least Model F makes sense. Model M is just plasticy, stiff ****.
Really?  (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220322/2639887ceb87245c9bd7bfe5cbf6875f.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 22 March 2022, 19:37:51
Isn't the UNICOMP version a little lighter? Maybe try that.

I've been meaning to give Matias silent tactile a serious try. I remember the loud clicky tactile being good with some tuning, but some say the silent switches are underwhelming.

Do they have the nomenclature backwards? Like the silent clicky is actually a no-click tactile, and the Matias Tactile Pro is actually a clicky?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Tue, 22 March 2022, 23:41:04
GMK/Cherry profile keycaps are the MX Brown of key profiles, not bad but not great either.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 22 March 2022, 23:56:38
Yeah, but unless you have really stable switches, Cherry profile is necessary to reduce wobble, as compared with taller profiles.

So it complements Cherry switches like MX Browns and others very well [although DCS is better for this]. Cherry-profile enhances stock Cherry switches as compared with something like stock cheaply-made OEM keycaps on prebuilts.

Otherwise, I agree. And having a taller profile on sturdy switches, maybe something like MG profile, is great.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Wed, 23 March 2022, 00:47:26
Yeah, but unless you have really stable switches, Cherry profile is necessary to reduce wobble, as compared with taller profiles.

Honestly, I am loving my MT3s. And as far as wobble goes, I feel like it just helps align the keys to my fingers when I don't get them perfectly centered over the key. But then again, I think box switches are pretty good as far as guidance goes. (maybe about half, based on a real quick test with a cherry brown and a Hako True)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Wed, 23 March 2022, 11:59:32
Well, MT3 is well-designed for modern MX keyboards for the most part. I find it is less forgiving of typing angle than Cherry.

[I am coming to prefer MG Profile, which seems to merge SA keycaps with MT3 dishing, with slight changes to angles].

Yes, MT3 can be good with light-tactiles. My first experience with them was at a meetup on Gateron Browns. Using them on a Filco with Ergo Clears, as well. I should probably try MT3 on my BOX Brown keyboard at some point. Those switches are good with taller keycaps. You'll probably find that MT3 does particularly well with U4T and Holy Boba, although I plan to test them with KTT Mallo at some point.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Wed, 23 March 2022, 17:03:51

I would say that's probably the most popular opinion. People seem to tend to write off clickies entirely before they've ever tried any good ones ... unfortunately. I was weird and actually liked MX blue (people make mistakes), but it isn't like much besides MX red in that family is common enough to appeal to the senseless masses anyway as an alternative. MX clear and black are too niche, MX brown is ... well ... MX brown.

The fact that I was once a mutant space alien who actually liked MX blue is probably all that allowed me an open enough mind to go down the wonderful rabbit hole of niche and/or vintage clicky mechanisms ... many of which are simply fantastic. Unequaled, in my opinion ... and I'm pretty sure that is the minority opinion in places outside of Deskthority.

MX clickies, having now had a more rounded/broader experience, are pretty objectively bad. I wouldn't put them below the worst MX tactiles ... but not far behind. If you haven't tried any good alternative mechanisms, however, you don't really have a leg to stand on in making that statement.

As a noob as well, what would you recommend for clicky switches to try out? I've played with a couple tactiles and I'm starting to get into linear, but I do want to try some clicky switches, I just don't know where to start with them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Wed, 23 March 2022, 20:57:00

I would say that's probably the most popular opinion. People seem to tend to write off clickies entirely before they've ever tried any good ones ... unfortunately. I was weird and actually liked MX blue (people make mistakes), but it isn't like much besides MX red in that family is common enough to appeal to the senseless masses anyway as an alternative. MX clear and black are too niche, MX brown is ... well ... MX brown.

The fact that I was once a mutant space alien who actually liked MX blue is probably all that allowed me an open enough mind to go down the wonderful rabbit hole of niche and/or vintage clicky mechanisms ... many of which are simply fantastic. Unequaled, in my opinion ... and I'm pretty sure that is the minority opinion in places outside of Deskthority.

MX clickies, having now had a more rounded/broader experience, are pretty objectively bad. I wouldn't put them below the worst MX tactiles ... but not far behind. If you haven't tried any good alternative mechanisms, however, you don't really have a leg to stand on in making that statement.

As a noob as well, what would you recommend for clicky switches to try out? I've played with a couple tactiles and I'm starting to get into linear, but I do want to try some clicky switches, I just don't know where to start with them.

I think the best "clicky" type switches right now are the clickbar ones. To me the whole point of the clicky switch is NOT to make noise, but to have a sharp break near the actuation point. The main issue I have with MX-blue type click jackets is that the mechanism is mostly a noise maker added to a sharp brown and the click has very little to do with actuating the switch. On top of that, the guide surfaces on the stem, which are already pretty short are now cut in half to allow for the bottom part of the stem to detach during the click event.
With click bars, you have a small torsion spring that snaps out of the way to create the click event. This to me feels like it is more like the idea behind the original 70s and 80s buckling type mechanisms (Beam spring, Model F buckling spring, Model M buckling spring)

The main ones I am aware of are all Kalih Box type switches. In rough order of lightest to heaviest, you have Box White, Box Pink, Box Pale Blue, Box Jade and Box Navy. There is also a "Muted Box Jade", which is a box jade with some silencing added. It has an interesting feel, but I actually preferred the Pale Blues for my current board.

The other alternatives are the older Alps switches with click leaves. I have not tried one myself, but given the current prices for alps blues, they must be pretty good. Zeal is releasing a MX-Alps hybrid this month that has an Alps style click leaf in an MX compatible housing. They sure sound interesting, but at 5x the price of a pale blue, they need to be really good. (I do have some samples coming one of these days...) (Pale Blue ~$0.30/switch, zeal clickiez $1.50/switch). I also like bigger boards, so when you are fitting out a 122% board, switch cost becomes a bigger factor than when you are building a 40% or a macropad.

And if you are just getting into this, a hotswap macropad is a really good place to start. That was actually my first "custom keyboard". I built a YamPad from scratch and managed to find some some numpad kits on mechmarket ( I think I ended up with cherry and SA). That way I could test out small quantities of switches in a more real world setting than our average switch tester. And you can try out different key/keycap combos to see what you like. I found that a key tester is really good for eliminating switches you don't like (I abhor linears, but that in itself seems to be a fairly unpopular opinion) but finding decent tactile/clicky switches using only a four button tester was pretty hard. Using my numpad, I eventually manged to narrow down my tactile selection to Hako Trues. They are probably a bit on the heavy side for most people, but I have big ape hands and need something I can rest my fingers on without hitting all the keys.

Good luck in your search for the perfect clicky switch :) 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Thu, 24 March 2022, 14:03:51

And if you are just getting into this, a hotswap macropad is a really good place to start.

Good luck in your search for the perfect clicky switch :)

I just got in my two puca macropads, and had completely forgotten that they're hotswap.  :)) Going to be using those as my switch testers now! I've been loving my milky top gat yellows for typing, but I do think I prefer tactiles a bit more for gaming and a few other things, so I'm curious to see how clickies are just because I've literally never used them before. I'll look at some of the box switches and see if I can't find somewhere to pick up some singles/low quantities to test weights and then justify a new board for a full set!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Thu, 24 March 2022, 19:50:52
Kono has 10 packs of all but the pale blues. Novelkeys sells them in boxes of 36 for around 10.80
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Sat, 26 March 2022, 18:40:00
XDA and DSA profile are slept on and one of the best profiles.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sun, 27 March 2022, 17:25:43
XDA and DSA profile are slept on and one of the best profiles.
Hi satan!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ander on Sun, 27 March 2022, 23:55:54
- Clickies are the worst type of switch.

I would say that's probably the most popular opinion. People seem to tend to write off clickies entirely before they've ever tried any good ones...

That's because they can't appreciate the fun of typing on clickety clackety switches that make everything they type seem vivid, important, and attention-getting! Whee!

It's an emotion-based thing. There's no logical reason anyone would prefer to type on a clicky keeb. It's an animal pleasure—like walking on the beach with bare feet, or running your hand through a cold stream. Or eating Magnum Bars (https://www.magnumicecream.com/ca/en/home.html), which no rational person who cares about their health would have more than, say, one of a month. But does that stop the rest of us? Nooo!! Nor does it stop us from delighting in typing on clicky keyboards. It's just something you've got to do, when it's something you like that much. Clickety-click!

I suppose that's an Unpopular Keyboard Opinion, then. How unusually appropriate.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Mon, 28 March 2022, 01:41:18
- Clickies are the worst type of switch.

I would say that's probably the most popular opinion. People seem to tend to write off clickies entirely before they've ever tried any good ones...

That's because they can't appreciate the fun of typing on clickety clackety switches that make everything they type seem vivid, important, and attention-getting! Whee!

It's an emotion-based thing. There's no logical reason anyone would prefer to type on a clicky keeb. It's an animal pleasure—like walking on the beach with bare feet, or running your hand through a cold stream. Or eating Magnum Bars (https://www.magnumicecream.com/ca/en/home.html), which no rational person who cares about their health would have more than, say, one of a month. But does that stop the rest of us? Nooo!! Nor does it stop us from delighting in typing on clicky keyboards. It's just something you've got to do, when it's something you like that much. Clickety-click!

I suppose that's an Unpopular Keyboard Opinion, then. How unusually appropriate.
To me, clicy switches come in three distinct categories:

1) The OG clicky mechanisms from the 70s and 80s, where the click is a side product of how the switch actuates. The best know examples of this are IBMs Beamspring and buckling spring mechanisms
2) Recent innovative mechanisms, that while not relying on the click to actuate the switch, do a good job replicating the feel of a metal part suddenly buckling during actuation. Kailh's clickbar switches(white, pale blue, pink, jade and navy) are a good modern example. I would also put things like blue alps and the new zeal clickies in this category (these both use a click leaf, which is seperate from the rest of the switch)
3) The utterly abhorrent and misguided design that is the click jacket switch. These are the Mx Blue and various clones where there is a sepreate part in the mechanism that is shot ahead of the rest of the stem near the actuation point for the sole purpose of making noise. As you might tell, I am NOT a fan of this design.

To me, the first two types have a very pleasant, sharp break in the middle of the keystroke. The click jacket on the other hand feels more like you are typing on a ballpoint pen. If you want to enjoy the noise of a clicky board, at least do yourself a favor and get a decent clickbar switch. you will thank me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Faceman76 on Mon, 28 March 2022, 05:32:10
I love the BOX Navy with a heavier spring.  They have the right amount of feedback for me and the heavy spring prevents me from bottoming out on every keystroke.  For me, there's nothing better...although Unicomp and old IBM switches are a close second. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 28 March 2022, 10:09:31
Capacitive buckling spring is pretty expensive to potentially find out you don't like them. Hopefully meetups start becoming more common again for situations like this.
I just got a cheap 2017 Unicomp Model M with MBS. I'm willing to put 50 bucks down on a Model M even if I don't like the switches :)

Very different animals. I was still a Cherry MX zombie when I first bought a venerable Model M. I disliked the weighting, mushy bottoming out and inconsistency of feel and sound (don't recall if that particular one needs a screw or bolt mod). It was enough to send me straight back to MX blue of all things. It was a cheap F XT that finally sent me through a time machine to the 80s for good.

Having tried way more unique mechanisms these days, I can't go back to MX blue ... but I'm still not particularly fond of membrane buckling spring either.
Well I just got it in today. The keyfeel is a bit inconsistent and I wasn't a fan of the tactility at first, but after typing a bit on it I'm very happy with my purchase! Really makes me want to try the model F when I can get the chance :)

So you've already gone from hating clickies to beginning down the rabbit hole of vintage clickies. It is an abyss from which you can never escape ... and you'll probably not want to anyway.

Matias Silent Tactile switches are superior to Alps SKCM.  The “bump” at the bottom helps avoid bottoming out and the rubber helps return the key so typing is easier.  I’m over clickiness.

Why is it important to not bottom out? You shouldn't have any trouble with the key returning either way. If you're hitting the dampeners ... you are bottoming out. You do know that there were dampened tactile Alps SKCM switches, right? They're typically considered to be superior to Matias switches. I would agree with that sentiment, even if Matias switches are still very nice in every category they produce. Still prefer clickies in this family of switches myself either way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Have you tried swapping dampened sliders into the clicky variant of the switch, or the clicky leaves into the tactile switches? Those are pretty nice too.

How's the quality control for Matias boards? I ordered a Quiet Pro in 2012 and ended up returning it because the build was quite shoddy, and the switch feel was all over the place.

2012 is just about when Forward stopped making Alps clones and Matias went to Gaote (Outemu) for their switches. The one old Matias board that I know has Forward switches in it has chatter across at least half of the whole freaking board. I have had no such problem with the Gaote switches, and they seem very consistent to me. It also seems like maybe QC wasn't so great for a while in terms of soldering the legs of the switches on perfectly straight so that the contacts functioned properly 100% of the time, although I haven't had any minor chatter issues that haven't resolved themselves magically with a little breaking in. The micro USB connectors on their boards are also literally screwed to the controller now with chunky plastic straps, since those breaking off was a problem in the past as well.

Isn't the UNICOMP version a little lighter? Maybe try that.

I've been meaning to give Matias silent tactile a serious try. I remember the loud clicky tactile being good with some tuning, but some say the silent switches are underwhelming.

Do they have the nomenclature backwards? Like the silent clicky is actually a no-click tactile, and the Matias Tactile Pro is actually a clicky?

It seems to be, but any membrane buckling spring is just a little too stiff for me ... even having gotten used to things like box navies.

Matias' nomenclature is all kinds of FUBAR. Their "quiet clicks" are dampened tactiles, their "tactile" switches are undampened clickies. The "quiet linear" switches aren't even totally linear. They have a tiny/gradual tactile bump near the end of travel, far more noticeable to me than something like MX brown or direct clones. Their "linear" and tactile switches are both very smooth right out of the box and the tactiles have a nice sharp bump. I'm not sure what changes the clickies would need besides being complicated Alps instead.  ;) I love all 3 without modification, more than anything else similarly mass market made today I have ever tried.


I would say that's probably the most popular opinion. People seem to tend to write off clickies entirely before they've ever tried any good ones ... unfortunately. I was weird and actually liked MX blue (people make mistakes), but it isn't like much besides MX red in that family is common enough to appeal to the senseless masses anyway as an alternative. MX clear and black are too niche, MX brown is ... well ... MX brown.

The fact that I was once a mutant space alien who actually liked MX blue is probably all that allowed me an open enough mind to go down the wonderful rabbit hole of niche and/or vintage clicky mechanisms ... many of which are simply fantastic. Unequaled, in my opinion ... and I'm pretty sure that is the minority opinion in places outside of Deskthority.

MX clickies, having now had a more rounded/broader experience, are pretty objectively bad. I wouldn't put them below the worst MX tactiles ... but not far behind. If you haven't tried any good alternative mechanisms, however, you don't really have a leg to stand on in making that statement.

As a noob as well, what would you recommend for clicky switches to try out? I've played with a couple tactiles and I'm starting to get into linear, but I do want to try some clicky switches, I just don't know where to start with them.

hvontres knows what he's talking about. I would just add that the click bar switches feel and sound radically different from each other based on spring weighting and click bar thickness. The pinks and jades are pretty snappy/tactile and sound pretty low pitched (lower than any other modern switches besides maybe Matias). I think how high pitched most clickies are is one of the things a lot of people are turned off by out of the gate. Increased spring weighting decreases perceived tactility, click bar thickness increases it. I love the jades the most myself, being a big fan of Alps SKCM blues. Pinks come in a close second (if you needed something less stiff). Navies are entertaining too if you don't mind their high pitch, but they're too stiff for most people.

Another thing, on the topic of modern manufacture switches, is Matias switches are dirt cheap and I like them just a bit more than even click bar switches. They're just totally incompatible with MX boards, (most) plates and caps.

Everybody has different tastes, but just about anybody that ends up liking clickies at all will probably like some flavor of buckling spring, some flavor of Alps and/or Matias and some flavor of click bar switches. If you must try MX clickies, Gaterons and Outemus are best ... and Outemu blue boards are extremely cheap and conveniently available on Amazon.

- Clickies are the worst type of switch.

I would say that's probably the most popular opinion. People seem to tend to write off clickies entirely before they've ever tried any good ones...

That's because they can't appreciate the fun of typing on clickety clackety switches that make everything they type seem vivid, important, and attention-getting! Whee!

It's an emotion-based thing. There's no logical reason anyone would prefer to type on a clicky keeb. It's an animal pleasure—like walking on the beach with bare feet, or running your hand through a cold stream. Or eating Magnum Bars (https://www.magnumicecream.com/ca/en/home.html), which no rational person who cares about their health would have more than, say, one of a month. But does that stop the rest of us? Nooo!! Nor does it stop us from delighting in typing on clicky keyboards. It's just something you've got to do, when it's something you like that much. Clickety-click!

I suppose that's an Unpopular Keyboard Opinion, then. How unusually appropriate.

I think that's definitely a factor. I still think most of the dislike for clickies is based on having only ever tried MX blue (or clones) though, or worse, making choices based solely on the subjective opinions of the most popular streamers of the moment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Mon, 28 March 2022, 12:12:11
Capacitive buckling spring is pretty expensive to potentially find out you don't like them. Hopefully meetups start becoming more common again for situations like this.
I just got a cheap 2017 Unicomp Model M with MBS. I'm willing to put 50 bucks down on a Model M even if I don't like the switches :)

Very different animals. I was still a Cherry MX zombie when I first bought a venerable Model M. I disliked the weighting, mushy bottoming out and inconsistency of feel and sound (don't recall if that particular one needs a screw or bolt mod). It was enough to send me straight back to MX blue of all things. It was a cheap F XT that finally sent me through a time machine to the 80s for good.

Having tried way more unique mechanisms these days, I can't go back to MX blue ... but I'm still not particularly fond of membrane buckling spring either.
Well I just got it in today. The keyfeel is a bit inconsistent and I wasn't a fan of the tactility at first, but after typing a bit on it I'm very happy with my purchase! Really makes me want to try the model F when I can get the chance :)

So you've already gone from hating clickies to beginning down the rabbit hole of vintage clickies. It is an abyss from which you can never escape ... and you'll probably not want to anyway.
I'd still say clickies are my least favorite type of switch, but these are a nice change of pace. Just got a board with Orange ALPS (ASK) and that blew me away. Still prefer my Zealios V2s just for the pure T A C T I L I T Y but it's definitely my second favorite board post waxboil.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 28 March 2022, 12:43:50
I'd still say clickies are my least favorite type of switch, but these are a nice change of pace. Just got a board with Orange ALPS (ASK) and that blew me away. Still prefer my Zealios V2s just for the pure T A C T I L I T Y but it's definitely my second favorite board post waxboil.

With membrane buckling spring, I say you've tried the worst of the best. We'll see what you say once you've tried SKCM clickies, Matias, capacitive buckling spring or click bar switches.

I have plenty of boards with switches that might be candidates for that whole newfangled waxboil thing. I have a SKCM blue board that feels terrible ... and an identical board that's wonderful. Would probably make for a great comparison. I would ask you how it went, but unless you had some pristine orange Alps I suppose it would be hard to say. I don't think I have even tried oranges myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Fri, 01 April 2022, 10:02:46
You haven't tried Orange Alps?

Maybe it's time that you did so. It's like the Blue Alps of tactiles. Try a clean one at a meetup. And although some people are against it, it's fine to lube them. Orange Alps is still significantly more tactile than MX, so it's fine to mod the switch to be a little more easygoing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 01 April 2022, 10:30:23
You haven't tried Orange Alps?

Maybe it's time that you did so. It's like the Blue Alps of tactiles. Try a clean one at a meetup. And although some people are against it, it's fine to lube them. Orange Alps is still significantly more tactile than MX, so it's fine to mod the switch to be a little more easygoing.

I have literally never found a meetup in driving distance. Plenty of posts about starting one, but they fizzle out. I also don't look anywhere besides here though.

I have been looking at some AEKs recently, so maybe I'll end up with a board with some before too long. The question will be whether or not they even feel right.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Fri, 01 April 2022, 11:39:35
Orange ALPS are heavily affected by switch condition. I've tried hand-restored Orange ALPS, lubed Orange ALPS, and Orange ALPS that were in about 65% condition. There is a distinct difference between all of them.

And you aren't getting the real experience with ~65% condition. The magic probably comes at 80% and higher.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 01 April 2022, 11:46:40
Orange ALPS are heavily affected by switch condition. I've tried hand-restored Orange ALPS, lubed Orange ALPS, and Orange ALPS that were in about 65% condition. There is a distinct difference between all of them.

And you aren't getting the real experience with ~65% condition. The magic probably comes at 80% and higher.

What about the wax mod? I have some SKCM blues in great shape, I should try it on some that are otherwise trashed to compare. I have some loose ones just sitting in a bag.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Fri, 01 April 2022, 12:36:06
Orange ALPS are heavily affected by switch condition. I've tried hand-restored Orange ALPS, lubed Orange ALPS, and Orange ALPS that were in about 65% condition. There is a distinct difference between all of them.

And you aren't getting the real experience with ~65% condition. The magic probably comes at 80% and higher.
Hey, I just waxmodded some orange alps! Can confirm, condition is a MAJOR factor. Before cleaning and modding they felt like complete, un-tactile, ass. Make sure you at least give them a clean.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 01 April 2022, 13:40:54
Orange ALPS are heavily affected by switch condition. I've tried hand-restored Orange ALPS, lubed Orange ALPS, and Orange ALPS that were in about 65% condition. There is a distinct difference between all of them.

And you aren't getting the real experience with ~65% condition. The magic probably comes at 80% and higher.
Hey, I just waxmodded some orange alps! Can confirm, condition is a MAJOR factor. Before cleaning and modding they felt like complete, un-tactile, ass. Make sure you at least give them a clean.

I have always wanted an ultrasonic cleaner for firearms as well. On my list of things to buy if I ever own my own house.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: granola bar enthusiast on Sat, 02 April 2022, 16:45:58
i despise the PE foam mod, it ruins the uniqueness in switches and boards and makes every single board sound like marbles.
It can sound good but you ideally don't want 15 boards all sounding the same with hundreds of dollars of price difference
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sun, 03 April 2022, 21:08:57
i despise the PE foam mod, it ruins the uniqueness in switches and boards and makes every single board sound like marbles.
It can sound good but you ideally don't want 15 boards all sounding the same with hundreds of dollars of price difference

Wouldn't know, wouldn't care.  ;D

I imagine that counts as an unpopular opinion on its own.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sun, 03 April 2022, 21:43:01
i despise the PE foam mod, it ruins the uniqueness in switches and boards and makes every single board sound like marbles.
It can sound good but you ideally don't want 15 boards all sounding the same with hundreds of dollars of price difference
I agree with a small caveat. There's certain boards it works for, but seeing people just cram it into everything is annoying. I love some thock, but not every board has to thock.
Hell I recently got an ASK and that board has some amazing thock without needing a single strip of foam.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Tue, 05 April 2022, 14:31:00
i despise the PE foam mod, it ruins the uniqueness in switches and boards and makes every single board sound like marbles.
It can sound good but you ideally don't want 15 boards all sounding the same with hundreds of dollars of price difference
The problem with saying "It makes most boards sound the same!" is that the kind of person who not only buys multiple boards, but cares how they sound and wants them all to sound different is a minority of a minority, even in the keyboard hobby.

The sound "meta" sucks, tbh. It's morphed into financial cope; A way for people who haven't burnt themselves out on hype yet to go "THIS is why this board is worth [insert hundreds of dollars]!", but the truth is that you can make anything sound good with a bit of work. Much less work than even 3 years ago, back when MX switches were all made with crappy loose/scratchy molds and hollow traymounts were all the rage. The gap between those premium boards with lots of love and care put into them and budget boards with off-the-shelf unmodded switches and maybe a mod or two is more narrow than ever.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobalbertus1 on Tue, 19 April 2022, 13:27:14
topre is overpriced rubber domes with a spring capacitive PCB, cheap capacitive controller cheap to make I can make model f ones in low quantity for less than 20  and those use a pro micro and JLC PCB parts rubber domes CHEAPER than a thrift shop dell l100 case made of plastic CHEAP dye-sub PBT keycaps not that expensive
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 20 April 2022, 19:12:11

  The feel of keycaps under my fingers:

"cherry" profile: floppy little plastic flakes like typing on a tray of "Kaboom!" breakfast cereal

Signature SA: the satisfyingly rock-solid quality feel of precious agates
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: granola bar enthusiast on Wed, 20 April 2022, 21:07:01
i think the 65%'s that have the same blocker for the arrow key cluster on the win key cluster look extremely bad and a 65% won't have symmetry anyways
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Thu, 21 April 2022, 09:44:17
topre is overpriced rubber domes with a spring capacitive PCB, cheap capacitive controller cheap to make I can make model f ones in low quantity for less than 20  and those use a pro micro and JLC PCB parts rubber domes CHEAPER than a thrift shop dell l100 case made of plastic CHEAP dye-sub PBT keycaps not that expensive

Topre EXPOSED!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 23 April 2022, 12:33:42
Stepped caps lock is overrated
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 23 April 2022, 13:12:14
Stepped caps lock is overrated

I LOVE stepped key caps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 23 April 2022, 13:46:01
Stepped caps lock is overrated

I LOVE stepped key caps.

Dialing in the muscle memory to press the left side of the key has eluded me even after a few years of use :'(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Sat, 23 April 2022, 18:00:18
topre is overpriced rubber domes with a spring capacitive PCB, cheap capacitive controller cheap to make I can make model f ones in low quantity for less than 20  and those use a pro micro and JLC PCB parts rubber domes CHEAPER than a thrift shop dell l100 case made of plastic CHEAP dye-sub PBT keycaps not that expensive
If I could parse this, I'd applaud you for destroying topre with facts and logic
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sat, 23 April 2022, 18:11:21
Stepped caps lock is overrated

I LOVE stepped key caps.
They look so good, but they're just get in the way. For caps lock I could definitely swing it because it'd prevent me from hitting caps during video games, but stuff like the enter would just fuuuuuck with me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: granola bar enthusiast on Sat, 23 April 2022, 18:34:21
i'm on the fence abt stepped caps, don't love it or hate but i will use it if it makes me accidentally press caps lock less, a few months back i ordered a  Mistel Keycap set from Amazon and it's stepped cap's was centered? weird
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Greywolf on Sat, 23 April 2022, 19:16:29
My opinions, worth what you pay for them:

- SA-P is the best key profile I have ever worked with.  SA non-profiled (all R3, for example) is a nightmare.
- The current backspace key needs to be two keys ( \| and ~`), The Backspace key needs to be (a 1.5u) just above the Return key,  Control directly left of 'A', and CAPS LOCK moved someplace where you won't hit it accidentally.
- Win keys make great remappable combo keys on non Windows boxes.
- All keyboards need Super, Hyper, Meta, AND Alt.
- Glowy is overrated unless and until you can get custom 2-shot backlit-compatible keys.  I wish I could find a set of Oblotzky ASCII caps (SA-P) in backlightable, but probably not in my lifetime.
- There should be two rows of F-keys [F1-12 and, above it, F13-24].  I'd say there should be a 2x5 bank of left-hand F-keys as well but I can do with having a separate keypad for that.
- Compact FF keyboards are HIGHLY overrated.  I have one and even mapped out it's a royal pain in the left patella to use.
- Artisan keycaps are HIGHLY overrated.
- The "Media Keys" on keyboards, with the exception of mute and the volume knob, really need to just be standard switch keys above the NP if one exists; or in a vertical row of 4 on the far right if not.
- Print Screen/Scroll Lock/Break need to be moved down one row.
- The 1800 layout is off-putting (but it might be worth a look).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jacobalbertus1 on Sat, 23 April 2022, 21:19:13
topre is overpriced rubber domes with a spring capacitive PCB, cheap capacitive controller cheap to make I can make model f ones in low quantity for less than 20  and those use a pro micro and JLC PCB parts rubber domes CHEAPER than a thrift shop dell l100 case made of plastic CHEAP dye-sub PBT keycaps not that expensive
If I could parse this, I'd applaud you for destroying topre with facts and logic

it's so true tho I get parts made for IBM model f's and beam springs all the time so I know what all the sensing electronics cost to make on a SMALL scale, we already know its much cheaper on a mass scale, all i don't know almost exact cost is the topre domes sliders plates and springs but that can be all that much if unicomp can pump out a model m for 100 with good profit than why is a HHKB 200 or more
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Wed, 27 April 2022, 00:17:45
My opinions, worth what you pay for them:

- SA-P is the best key profile I have ever worked with.  SA non-profiled (all R3, for example) is a nightmare.
- The current backspace key needs to be two keys ( \| and ~`), The Backspace key needs to be (a 1.5u) just above the Return key,  Control directly left of 'A', and CAPS LOCK moved someplace where you won't hit it accidentally.
- Win keys make great remappable combo keys on non Windows boxes.
- All keyboards need Super, Hyper, Meta, AND Alt.
- Glowy is overrated unless and until you can get custom 2-shot backlit-compatible keys.  I wish I could find a set of Oblotzky ASCII caps (SA-P) in backlightable, but probably not in my lifetime.
- There should be two rows of F-keys [F1-12 and, above it, F13-24].  I'd say there should be a 2x5 bank of left-hand F-keys as well but I can do with having a separate keypad for that.
- Compact FF keyboards are HIGHLY overrated.  I have one and even mapped out it's a royal pain in the left patella to use.
- Artisan keycaps are HIGHLY overrated.
- The "Media Keys" on keyboards, with the exception of mute and the volume knob, really need to just be standard switch keys above the NP if one exists; or in a vertical row of 4 on the far right if not.
- Print Screen/Scroll Lock/Break need to be moved down one row.
- The 1800 layout is off-putting (but it might be worth a look).

Well, it is a psuedo 1800, but I LOVE the extra row of F keys on my Boston (link in signature)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 27 April 2022, 01:01:00

Well, it is a psuedo 1800, but I LOVE the extra row of F keys on my Boston (link in signature)

(....cries softly inside....)   :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: granola bar enthusiast on Wed, 27 April 2022, 08:40:18
i also think that you should never EVER use tactiles on a plateless board, all the bounce combined with the bump just feels too weird
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: yui on Fri, 29 April 2022, 14:54:19
i also think that you should never EVER use tactiles on a plateless board, all the bounce combined with the bump just feels too weird
now you make me want to try to feel it, if only i had tactile switches around... and a pcb i was willing to "sacrifice"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mljs54 on Fri, 06 May 2022, 20:53:29
[wrong reply]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Kevin-3992 on Sun, 08 May 2022, 10:43:48
This post is so helpful
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Mon, 23 May 2022, 04:05:09
r/budgetkeyboards is the new "stop gatekeeping our gatekeeping" corner.

r/mechanicalkeyboards is the new spot for budgetkeebs and GMK hate .

r/customkeebs is the only place worth visiting anymore... aside from GH.

My reasoning... post a nice custom board on r/mk with GMK caps and people will ignore it because "must be nice to be rich". Post the same board on r/ck where they legit have only 10% as many viewers and it'll get upvoted like crazy because they actually like nice stuff there.

Forget about budget keebs... they banned me for telling someone Gateron makes better products than Akko and their milky yellows are cheaper than most anything Akko sells. Got banned for "sharing my opinion as a fact" LMFAO but the mods will claim up and down I was harassing someone... too bad I got receipts from when a mod let me back in because "I dont see anything youve done wrong". LOL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: granola bar enthusiast on Mon, 23 May 2022, 10:05:16
i agree with this, r/mechanicalkeyboards has over the years, converted from a reddit of individuals who were interested in the subject and wanted to help each other out, and now to some of those and the majority being those who are just there because "it's the new "trend"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Mon, 23 May 2022, 10:55:24
r/budgetkeyboards is the new "stop gatekeeping our gatekeeping" corner.

r/mechanicalkeyboards is the new spot for budgetkeebs and GMK hate .

r/customkeebs is the only place worth visiting anymore... aside from GH.

My reasoning... post a nice custom board on r/mk with GMK caps and people will ignore it because "must be nice to be rich". Post the same board on r/ck where they legit have only 10% as many viewers and it'll get upvoted like crazy because they actually like nice stuff there.

Forget about budget keebs... they banned me for telling someone Gateron makes better products than Akko and their milky yellows are cheaper than most anything Akko sells. Got banned for "sharing my opinion as a fact" LMFAO but the mods will claim up and down I was harassing someone... too bad I got receipts from when a mod let me back in because "I dont see anything youve done wrong". LOL
Imagine using reddit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 23 May 2022, 11:57:10

Imagine using reddit.

I can't.
I have looked at it a few times but I can't understand it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 23 May 2022, 14:56:03

Imagine using reddit.

I can't.
I have looked at it a few times but I can't understand it.

It works for Googling specific information, just to read through previous conversations on there. Even that is a chore with how the comment section works on that terrible website. Basically totally unusable otherwise if you ask me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Mon, 23 May 2022, 14:58:14
Sometimes when I’m looking for a normal person opinion I’ll just search something like “xxxx recommendation Reddit”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Tue, 24 May 2022, 23:18:08
Sometimes when I’m looking for a normal person opinion I’ll just search something like “xxxx recommendation Reddit”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I assume you use the opposite of what comes up on reddit, because dear lord are there some ****stains on reddit, and oh boy do they love to spread their god awful opinions.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fortissim2 on Tue, 31 May 2022, 10:06:13
r/mechanicalkeyboards is the new spot for budgetkeebs and GMK hate .
r/mk is just a comedically large echo chamber of GMK groupbuys and generic-ass 60%s and 65%s. Basically, there's really nothing spectacular in that subreddit.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: selsik on Tue, 31 May 2022, 16:34:38
r/budgetkeyboards is the new "stop gatekeeping our gatekeeping" corner.

r/mechanicalkeyboards is the new spot for budgetkeebs and GMK hate .

r/customkeebs is the only place worth visiting anymore... aside from GH.

My reasoning... post a nice custom board on r/mk with GMK caps and people will ignore it because "must be nice to be rich". Post the same board on r/ck where they legit have only 10% as many viewers and it'll get upvoted like crazy because they actually like nice stuff there.

Forget about budget keebs... they banned me for telling someone Gateron makes better products than Akko and their milky yellows are cheaper than most anything Akko sells. Got banned for "sharing my opinion as a fact" LMFAO but the mods will claim up and down I was harassing someone... too bad I got receipts from when a mod let me back in because "I dont see anything youve done wrong". LOL

r/mk is pleb central, r/ck is the only place worth visiting anymore

i have zero interest in seeing the millionth GMMK pro with xda keycaps... if i have to see xda matcha or xda bee honey one more time i'm gonna vomit on my realforce r2
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 31 May 2022, 21:58:09
if i have to see xda matcha or xda bee honey one more time i'm gonna vomit on my realforce r2

(https://i.imgur.com/Vadmh4p.jpeg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Tue, 31 May 2022, 23:59:41
R2 realforce  :-X

R1 87u best layout
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: selsik on Wed, 01 June 2022, 01:50:25
if i have to see xda matcha or xda bee honey one more time i'm gonna vomit on my realforce r2

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/Vadmh4p.jpeg)


lol you actually spent money on that horrid keycap set

arguably the ugliest light green i've ever seen
i don't have to vomit, the puke's already mounted on your keyboard
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Wed, 01 June 2022, 10:42:18
I also put it on a generic 65% for your viewing pleasure. Hope you noticed.

It's just for laughs, as I don't type on XDA profile.

I actually agree that there are way too many 65% keyboards posted on r/mk. I don't find it to be a space that caters to my preferences.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 01 June 2022, 13:50:08
I also put it on a generic 65% for your viewing pleasure. Hope you noticed.

It's just for laughs, as I don't type on XDA profile.

I actually agree that there are way too many 65% keyboards posted on r/mk. I don't find it to be a space that caters to my preferences.

I liked both, although I don't think those caps go well with that case.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 02 June 2022, 19:51:48
if i have to see xda matcha or xda bee honey one more time i'm gonna vomit on my realforce r2

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/Vadmh4p.jpeg)


Looks very nice!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: FckYou6969696969 on Fri, 03 June 2022, 10:36:49
Vintage keyboards are absoulout ****. Yall really need to start using newer keyboards. Get yo old ass head out of the ****in ground and start using the newer stuff.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 03 June 2022, 10:48:09

Get yo old ass head out of the ****in ground and start using the newer stuff.

Hey, I never thought about that. Good idea !

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Fri, 03 June 2022, 15:09:38
Vintage keyboards are absoulout ****. Yall really need to start using newer keyboards. Get yo old ass head out of the ****in ground and start using the newer stuff.

Think of this in the reverse, which is what is actually the case. People typically try modern switches, feel there's something missing and/or have an insatiable appetite for something new/different, try vintage mechanisms ... discover they're vastly superior and then begin finding every opportunity to use vintage mechanisms instead because nothing else can compare anymore. I try other modern switches just to try to find something cheaper than buying Models F and playing the SKCM lottery that's at least acceptably enjoyable to type with.

Have you tried any good vintage switches? Would it be an accurate stereotype for me to assume that all you've ever tried is MX derivatives, and maybe some heavily abused Model M, and you've already determined that everything but your preference sucks?

If so, I was once like you. As many of us were.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sat, 04 June 2022, 10:57:06
Vintage keyboards are absoulout ****. Yall really need to start using newer keyboards. Get yo old ass head out of the ****in ground and start using the newer stuff.
Hey you're that guy from like, two days ago, who made a whiny piss baby post about vintage computers or something. Bit of advice, come up with a less obvious alt.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sat, 04 June 2022, 16:15:49

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/Vadmh4p.jpeg)


Looks very nice!

Thanks. I think the gray / smoky transparent cases go well with green sets [Matcha, Botanical], but it can be divisive.

Other people frequently use Dolch-like sets, including Modern Dolch. I've put MT3 3277 on a charcoal MK870, which looks good. But sometimes, the Dolch sets are too drab on charcoal, IMHO.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Sat, 04 June 2022, 21:36:51

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/Vadmh4p.jpeg)


Looks very nice!

Thanks. I think the gray / smoky transparent cases go well with green sets [Matcha, Botanical], but it can be divisive.

Other people frequently use Dolch-like sets, including Modern Dolch. I've put MT3 3277 on a charcoal MK870, which looks good. But sometimes, the Dolch sets are too drab on charcoal, IMHO.

Dolch is great, but it can be over-done. Not that I'm some kind of keyboard fashionista anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sat, 04 June 2022, 21:57:06
Beige vintage caps are better than granite/charcoal/gray caps
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Sun, 05 June 2022, 00:19:38
Beige vintage caps are better than granite/charcoal/gray caps
I feel like this is the popular opinion here, given the number of beige sets we've seen along with all the beige add-on kits.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sun, 05 June 2022, 08:45:18
Beige vintage caps are better than granite/charcoal/gray caps
I feel like this is the popular opinion here, given the number of beige sets we've seen along with all the beige add-on kits.
Probably. The more I read this thread the more I realize I have popular opinions.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sun, 05 June 2022, 09:25:12
Beige vintage caps are better than granite/charcoal/gray caps

IIRC, KBDFans advertised the charcoal KBD67 Lite by using beige vintage-style caps. Actually, they were GMK Muted colour in tint, looked a lot like Artifact Bloom "Vintage."

This was back in R1.

I think it's fine, even great. But I tend to use such keycaps on black/white and especially white polycarb boards (e.g. 9009).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 10 June 2022, 21:38:34

  Unpopular opinion #4209235:

  I've been hanging out here for a couple years and I just realized that I'm extremely "meh" about 99% of the keyboards people talk about. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Sat, 11 June 2022, 21:45:38
Beige vintage caps are better than granite/charcoal/gray caps


This is correct. However, the question is if they should be ABS-DS, or PBT.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sun, 12 June 2022, 13:52:17
Beige vintage caps are better than granite/charcoal/gray caps


This is correct. However, the question is if they should be ABS-DS, or PBT.
I'm forced to use PBT. I melt ABS like a mother****er.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 13 June 2022, 09:26:36
Beige vintage caps are better than granite/charcoal/gray caps


This is correct. However, the question is if they should be ABS-DS, or PBT.
I'm forced to use PBT. I melt ABS like a mother****er.


Heavy fingers, pal?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Mon, 13 June 2022, 09:53:26
Beige vintage caps are better than granite/charcoal/gray caps


This is correct. However, the question is if they should be ABS-DS, or PBT.
I'm forced to use PBT. I melt ABS like a mother****er.


Heavy fingers, pal?
Yeah :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Mon, 13 June 2022, 10:04:20
my unpopular opinion here is that i dont like any keyboard that oesn't have standart mx style switches.
topre-rubber basically a membrane that activates mid travel aalso expensive
alps- heard they have good clickies but they dont work for standard pcbs now and are hard to get and im talking about original ones
buckling spring- heard that original ibm keyboards are pretty expensive also old and only clicky not removable too
other strange old switches -no
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ideus on Mon, 13 June 2022, 10:49:53
my unpopular opinion here is that i dont like any keyboard that oesn't have standart mx style switches.
topre-rubber basically a membrane that activates mid travel aalso expensive
alps- heard they have good clickies but they dont work for standard pcbs now and are hard to get and im talking about original ones
buckling spring- heard that original ibm keyboards are pretty expensive also old and only clicky not removable too
other strange old switches -no


I share your opinion fully; yet, it may not be an unpopular one, after all.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Mon, 13 June 2022, 11:23:00
my unpopular opinion here is that i dont like any keyboard that oesn't have standart mx style switches.
topre-rubber basically a membrane that activates mid travel aalso expensive
alps- heard they have good clickies but they dont work for standard pcbs now and are hard to get and im talking about original ones
buckling spring- heard that original ibm keyboards are pretty expensive also old and only clicky not removable too
other strange old switches -no
Don't discount Alps tactiles. The clickies are very nice, but the tactiles are also very neato as well. I used to think that ALPS were hard to find as well, but really all you need to do is spend some time on the deskthority wiki and ebay/craigslist and you can find some really good deals. I assume you're newer to this hobby so I'll say this, it's the best advice I ever got. "Don't form an opinion on something until you've tried it."
I used to think that Mitsumi Mini Mechs were complete dog**** until I tried them for myself. They're not great mind you, but for something that can be used on a modern PC extremely easily and is incredibly cheap they're very nice (Plus they take MX caps).
Try to find some meetups nearby you or maybe organize a small one yourself in order to try some interesting switches without spending the cash! Best of luck man.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Mon, 13 June 2022, 11:24:17
Oh and most importantly, take every switch opinion with a pinch of salt. I used to take people like Chyros' videos as gospel until I started trying more vintage switches myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Mon, 13 June 2022, 12:18:12
my unpopular opinion here is that i dont like any keyboard that oesn't have standart mx style switches.
topre-rubber basically a membrane that activates mid travel aalso expensive
alps- heard they have good clickies but they dont work for standard pcbs now and are hard to get and im talking about original ones
buckling spring- heard that original ibm keyboards are pretty expensive also old and only clicky not removable too
other strange old switches -no
Don't discount Alps tactiles. The clickies are very nice, but the tactiles are also very neato as well. I used to think that ALPS were hard to find as well, but really all you need to do is spend some time on the deskthority wiki and ebay/craigslist and you can find some really good deals. I assume you're newer to this hobby so I'll say this, it's the best advice I ever got. "Don't form an opinion on something until you've tried it."
I used to think that Mitsumi Mini Mechs were complete dog**** until I tried them for myself. They're not great mind you, but for something that can be used on a modern PC extremely easily and is incredibly cheap they're very nice (Plus they take MX caps).
Try to find some meetups nearby you or maybe organize a small one yourself in order to try some interesting switches without spending the cash! Best of luck man.
i wanted to type about that i haven't tried any of these switches but im on kindle (don't ask why) so i coluldn't continue writing where i wanted. maybe there waas something about alps tactiles but i just forgot
i overall think that alps are the best out of these vintage switches
just mx style switches but  not compatible and they are sometimes nicer even
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Mon, 13 June 2022, 17:36:14
my unpopular opinion here is that i dont like any keyboard that oesn't have standart mx style switches.
topre-rubber basically a membrane that activates mid travel aalso expensive
alps- heard they have good clickies but they dont work for standard pcbs now and are hard to get and im talking about original ones
buckling spring- heard that original ibm keyboards are pretty expensive also old and only clicky not removable too
other strange old switches -no
Don't discount Alps tactiles. The clickies are very nice, but the tactiles are also very neato as well. I used to think that ALPS were hard to find as well, but really all you need to do is spend some time on the deskthority wiki and ebay/craigslist and you can find some really good deals. I assume you're newer to this hobby so I'll say this, it's the best advice I ever got. "Don't form an opinion on something until you've tried it."
I used to think that Mitsumi Mini Mechs were complete dog**** until I tried them for myself. They're not great mind you, but for something that can be used on a modern PC extremely easily and is incredibly cheap they're very nice (Plus they take MX caps).
Try to find some meetups nearby you or maybe organize a small one yourself in order to try some interesting switches without spending the cash! Best of luck man.
i wanted to type about that i haven't tried any of these switches but im on kindle (don't ask why) so i coluldn't continue writing where i wanted. maybe there waas something about alps tactiles but i just forgot
i overall think that alps are the best out of these vintage switches
just mx style switches but  not compatible and they are sometimes nicer even
So you're saying you've never tried any of these switches, but you've already formed an opinion on them...
All I'm saying is to reserve judgement until you actually try some of them for yourself. Don't take this the wrong way but are you young, or is English not your native language? I'm just having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say here.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Tue, 14 June 2022, 09:16:37
my unpopular opinion here is that i dont like any keyboard that oesn't have standart mx style switches.
topre-rubber basically a membrane that activates mid travel aalso expensive
alps- heard they have good clickies but they dont work for standard pcbs now and are hard to get and im talking about original ones
buckling spring- heard that original ibm keyboards are pretty expensive also old and only clicky not removable too
other strange old switches -no
Don't discount Alps tactiles. The clickies are very nice, but the tactiles are also very neato as well. I used to think that ALPS were hard to find as well, but really all you need to do is spend some time on the deskthority wiki and ebay/craigslist and you can find some really good deals. I assume you're newer to this hobby so I'll say this, it's the best advice I ever got. "Don't form an opinion on something until you've tried it."
I used to think that Mitsumi Mini Mechs were complete dog**** until I tried them for myself. They're not great mind you, but for something that can be used on a modern PC extremely easily and is incredibly cheap they're very nice (Plus they take MX caps).
Try to find some meetups nearby you or maybe organize a small one yourself in order to try some interesting switches without spending the cash! Best of luck man.
i wanted to type about that i haven't tried any of these switches but im on kindle (don't ask why) so i coluldn't continue writing where i wanted. maybe there waas something about alps tactiles but i just forgot
i overall think that alps are the best out of these vintage switches
just mx style switches but  not compatible and they are sometimes nicer even
So you're saying you've never tried any of these switches, but you've already formed an opinion on them...
All I'm saying is to reserve judgement until you actually try some of them for yourself. Don't take this the wrong way but are you young, or is English not your native language? I'm just having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say here.
well yes i think im just like that. i like making opinions without trying it.
both im 15 and my native language isn't english, ill try checking what
i am writing
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 20 June 2022, 13:46:21
my unpopular opinion here is that i dont like any keyboard that oesn't have standart mx style switches.

MX's proliferation can objectively be attributed to only two things: long-term reliability (for the cost and size), and a significant historical market share of the industrial and POS markets that weathered the rubber dome apocalypse while its competitors either folded or left the market space.

MX is not the standard today for any other significant reason. If those are the only reasons that we, as enthusiasts, settle for MX ... then the standard needs to change. I don't think you'll find a majority of people who would try something like Alps (in good shape) and go right back to their MX browns, etc, if not for their compulsive obsession to customize everything. The very fact that that is the case is also the only reason that it remains so.

topre-rubber basically a membrane that activates mid travel aalso expensive

There are some very good dome-with-slider boards that come very close to Topre. I'm told there are even some good modern "memchanical" boards. Topre and Niz boards are worth the cost though if you like tactile switches. Try them.

alps- heard they have good clickies but they dont work for standard pcbs now and are hard to get and im talking about original ones

In addition to what CaesarAZealad has already deftly said, and what I have addressed above, look into Zeal's new Clickiez switches. I have them in one board and ordered a few hundred more based on my impressions. I like them more than Kaihua's box switches and those were the only MX compatibles I could stand anymore previously. They can compete with Alps (to my preference). They are extremely stiff in the tactile configuration though. Maybe they'll make something more ... normal down the road for the tactile fans.

buckling spring- heard that original ibm keyboards are pretty expensive also old and only clicky not removable too

Unless somebody doesn't know what they have, have too many of them, or wants to spark a fire in someone new, the Models F are expensive ... yes. Standard Model Ms haven't really changed significantly in value in years and Unicomp still makes their own variants to this day for a reasonable price. I don't like membrane buckling spring at all anyway, but to each their own. Capacitive buckling spring is worth the price, and Ellipse should still be selling reproduction 4704 IBM boards ... they are worth every penny.

other strange old switches -no

Why not? The weird/obscure ones are the ones you're most likely to get for a reasonable price. NEC blue ovals are fantastic clicky switches, and you're more likely to find a good dome with slider board than a bad one. I would take any of those over anything MX myself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Wed, 06 July 2022, 05:56:13
[deleted]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Fri, 08 July 2022, 00:17:47
if you would give me a 300$ keyboard and a 100$ keyboard with same keycaps and switches in a blind test i would propably choose the 100$ one

lmfao that literally makes no sense. What is youre logic?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Fri, 08 July 2022, 12:09:32
VIA is a bad program and the community really needs to start using VIAL instead. It's properly open sourced, has a better interface, offers significantly more options of what you can do with it including key combos, tap dance, key overrides, directly controlling lighting, and controlling encoders. VIA offers none of this in a clunkier interface that doesn't load as well.

With improving microcontrollers that offer more power (such as blackpill), more designs integrating encoders, and a growing trend towards compact boards where functions such as combos offer a significantly improved workflow and a whole new world of options, VIA is an inexcusably outdated interface that really ought to be left behind for the overwhelming majority of boards.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 12 July 2022, 17:28:25

  This might actually be a popular opinion, but I've received my first two group buys and I have to say that I'm extremely underwhelmed by how far the colors turned out compared to both renders and pre-production samples.  I was hoping photos of actual samples would be a better bet, but that was a false hope. 

  All is not lost, because in-stock sets I've bought have actually been pretty good, and I have the feeling that with one exception I have more confidence in the other group buys I bought into. 


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: granola bar enthusiast on Tue, 12 July 2022, 18:54:54

  This might actually be a popular opinion, but I've received my first two group buys and I have to say that I'm extremely underwhelmed by how far the colors turned out compared to both renders and pre-production samples.  I was hoping photos of actual samples would be a better bet, but that was a false hope. 

  All is not lost, because in-stock sets I've bought have actually been pretty good, and I have the feeling that with one exception I have more confidence in the other group buys I bought into.

yeah this can be pretty annoying but some of the newer manu's have definitely been improving. just wondering, what was the manufacturer for the sets you were underwhelmed by?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 12 July 2022, 19:34:55

  I'll pass on naming names.  "You pays yer money and you takes yer chances."  The physical quality of the caps is good, but the color matching outcome is just a fail.  I saw yesterday that both sets are still advertised with misleading renders/samples so I'm thinking of dropping those vendors a note about correcting that. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 15 July 2022, 17:43:13

Unpopular Opinion #69.69-ahh subsection XXX

I don't understand all these expensive keyboards that have fancy decorations on the back and underside which you'll never see when using them as a...wait for it...keyboard. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: maxmousee on Mon, 18 July 2022, 04:32:56
I guess I have a few:
- I think these brass weights or added weights in general are a bit pointless except for looks (and even then, you mostly don't see them).
- Easily programmable macros (specially without a running software) are probably the most underrated feature in any keyboard.
- 95% of people would not be able to feel the difference between a lot of hyped switches vs standard ones (e.g. MX Red vs Alpacas, Tangerines, etc).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Mon, 18 July 2022, 06:24:59

Unpopular Opinion #69.69-ahh subsection XXX

I don't understand all these expensive keyboards that have fancy decorations on the back and underside which you'll never see when using them as a...wait for it...keyboard.
I mean I agree but at the same time, you dangle a keyboard with an engraving of Foxy or a raccoon and I'd ****ing peel my flesh from bone just to get it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Wed, 20 July 2022, 03:18:41

  I'll pass on naming names.  "You pays yer money and you takes yer chances."  The physical quality of the caps is good, but the color matching outcome is just a fail.  I saw yesterday that both sets are still advertised with misleading renders/samples so I'm thinking of dropping those vendors a note about correcting that.

Why would you not let us know? Do you want us to make the same mistake and buy a bad set? Come the **** on. Name the vendor and cap set. Youre part of this community right?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 20 July 2022, 18:55:15

These are group buys, which I entered in the explicit spirit of supporting the designer's vision, and with the knowledge that the renders/samples aren't exact.  The keycap set is an artwork, and the designer is the artist.  In that spirit it would strike me as unethical to publicly fault the artist when they're presumably satisfied with the work and don't seem to be trying to be deceptive.  Sometimes an artwork is not quite what you expected. 

I think the community generally does a poor job of acknowledging up front that renders or even photos of samples are often an inadequate representation of keycap colors "in the flesh", and we don't really have standards for how to do it.  Different light sources interacting with different surfaces and individual color perceptions are really difficult things to model or photograph accurately. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Thu, 21 July 2022, 12:21:24
It still should be up to the designer and vendor make somewhat accurate renders. It’s definitely possible with a Pantone book, spyder, and some patience.

It should also be both of their jobs to inspect and check samples to make sure it’s up to par with what community should be expecting. It’s not like they can’t take a look at their own renders which is what most other people will be seeing.

There’s also some trends with not releasing color codes in the name of “preventing clones” when cloners could just take an eye dropper tool on some half assed uncolormatched renders and get it equally as good as gmk trying to match hex codes.

So yeah totally more blame on vendors/designers, more transparency, higher render standards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 21 July 2022, 16:47:03

It isn't as simple as color codes.  Light is very complex to work with. 

Getting it reasonably right takes actual experience with the process from start to finish, with all of the materials, manufacturing processes and pigments involved.  Most of these designers are hobbyists who do not have the experience, and we generally know this limitation when we buy into a group buy. 

I also think some designers are a bit lazy with the process at various points from the presentation of the concept to sample proofing and to applying quality standards to the finished product.  And then in the end if they're personally satisfied that's just what you're getting.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Thu, 21 July 2022, 17:08:03
If the designers aren’t the most experienced, they should at least release codes and maybe pics of the samples in hand, in different lighting. So that the normal customer can see a lil more into it. More professional streamers and hobbyists can also pull out their own books to do a check and maybe give others a heads up about, hey, the purple looks a little deeper on screens than irl. I’ve seen some streamers do that in IC/GB reviews and it somewhat helps to know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 21 July 2022, 17:26:36

Very detailed examination of samples under different light sources, with an adequate period of community feedback, would be a big plus.  It's unfortunate that there are no standards for this at all. 

High quality photos need to be examined and fact-checked very closely, using multiple lighting sources that are exactly detailed, unprocessed images from quality cameras provided (preferably RAW) with white-balance information, etc.  Designers would need to post enough information to break through people's normal reluctance to "make waves" and ask questions, and the community needs to be engaged and not overly anxious to rush to production.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: F2Grey on Wed, 27 July 2022, 05:28:53
I don't know if unpopular, but I loved to type on this keyboard then I spilled Cola-Cola™ on it.




Also... as a newbie to custom keyboards I really don't understand why wireless with a USB dongle isn't even available as an option. Who needs wired these days? Gamers certainly won't until they first mod their Windows installation properly and who does that? One in a million.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Wed, 27 July 2022, 05:40:56
Wireless is complicated to design around, a dongle much more so than Bluetooth


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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 27 July 2022, 18:04:42

  Wireless is unreliable and wastes system resources.  Plus, it's a future point of likely failure and premature obsolescence.  (Actually, where I work it's also forbidden.) 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: F2Grey on Thu, 28 July 2022, 02:55:08
Thanks for the replies. Windows, these days, is spyware bundled with an operating system so it is in itself the main culprit for wasted resources. The biggest issue is constant interrupts. There's a way to get rid of them but it's a LOT of work. Wifi etc. have no real significant effect on the system latency of an optimized system. In an unoptimized system (which is c. 100% of users) it's another (very complicated) story.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sxmxs on Wed, 03 August 2022, 11:43:26
Speaking Personally:

I appreciate smaller boards, which drives me to love 60s above all.
HHKB's are an aesthetic thing that doesnt apply to everybody, but its my second favorite 60 type, behind WKL.

To my opinions:

Exploded 75% are weird. The Jelly Epoch and Hex.4b look nice to me because they're compact, but still come with a blocker unlike the kbd75.

Cherry Blacks are the best sounding switches, Nothing else compares.

Stepped Caps is the only right way.

People who use 6.25u on solderable or hotswap with 7u compatibility are crazy

Durocks are overrated, they are just smoother and have slightly better tolerances than cherry. Only Owlstabs, TX Stabs, and Staebies deserve praise. Everything else is just standard
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Zytyx on Thu, 04 August 2022, 05:32:48
I miss older kits that ran with a top row 1u backspace key. It's like any modern numpad kit are made by people who have never had to use one in their day to day. I know there are bandaids for anyone who uses a split + key layout (the ever useless f13 key, a novelty, some nav key, etc.) but it was nice having correct legends. Atleast my old GMK kits have this key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NamesReed on Fri, 05 August 2022, 12:39:13
TKL boards are a waste of space, if you want the keys go 75%

Gasket mounted boards feel mushy.

40’s rule
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Fri, 05 August 2022, 16:29:12
TKL boards are a waste of space, if you want the keys go 75%
Gasket mounted boards feel mushy.
40’s rule
no, tkl looks better than 75%, has more functionality, is more standard
now im scared if i should get gasket mount can anyone confirm that
40's are more of fun fact than a functional keyboard, because everyone needs number row, almost no exception
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atarione on Fri, 05 August 2022, 16:41:06
I'm not at all sure how people use keyboards smaller than TKL...My hands at least are sized such that anything smaller than TKL would seem very cramped (has seemed when I tried a friends 60%.)
 [attach=1][attach=2] 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Fri, 05 August 2022, 16:44:06
Wouldn’t a 60 be still the same spacing? I feel like you would have more room and less likely for a hand to brush the arrow keys.


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Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Fri, 05 August 2022, 18:36:26
Wouldn’t a 60 be still the same spacing? I feel like you would have more room and less likely for a hand to brush the arrow keys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You'd think, but no, not really. Idk if it's a psychological thing but I definitely feel more cramped using My mode65 or Q1 compared to my NCR80.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: atarione on Fri, 05 August 2022, 20:14:39
Wouldn’t a 60 be still the same spacing? I feel like you would have more room and less likely for a hand to brush the arrow keys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wouldn’t a 60 be still the same spacing? I feel like you would have more room and less likely for a hand to brush the arrow keys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You'd think, but no, not really. Idk if it's a psychological thing but I definitely feel more cramped using My mode65 or Q1 compared to my NCR80.


My experience also I felt more cramped on a 60 than my Filco TKL... I also really don't like having to switch layers to get F keys and whatever... I find my TKL is great for my own needs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Omnias on Fri, 12 August 2022, 18:24:26
r/budgetkeyboards is the new "stop gatekeeping our gatekeeping" corner.

r/mechanicalkeyboards is the new spot for budgetkeebs and GMK hate .

r/customkeebs is the only place worth visiting anymore... aside from GH.

My reasoning... post a nice custom board on r/mk with GMK caps and people will ignore it because "must be nice to be rich". Post the same board on r/ck where they legit have only 10% as many viewers and it'll get upvoted like crazy because they actually like nice stuff there.

Forget about budget keebs... they banned me for telling someone Gateron makes better products than Akko and their milky yellows are cheaper than most anything Akko sells. Got banned for "sharing my opinion as a fact" LMFAO but the mods will claim up and down I was harassing someone... too bad I got receipts from when a mod let me back in because "I dont see anything youve done wrong". LOL

I got banned for correcting libelous statements made by their owner, and another r/MK mod got banned for warning the r/bk Owner to stop harassing members of r/MK and spamming false reports…
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Sat, 20 August 2022, 14:38:07
don't like frl it's a deal breaker for me. very sad to see that many great boards being wkl only. the blockers should be removable for accessible winkey atleast
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: pinkpurpleteal on Sat, 20 August 2022, 18:50:20
gasket mount key boards are not good
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Fraaaan on Sun, 21 August 2022, 08:11:31
don't like frl it's a deal breaker for me. very sad to see that many great boards being wkl only. the blockers should be removable for accessible winkey atleast

Just bind it somewhere else. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Sun, 21 August 2022, 08:29:01
don't like frl it's a deal breaker for me. very sad to see that many great boards being wkl only. the blockers should be removable for accessible winkey atleast
Just bind it somewhere else. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
idk where, and i like where it normally is.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 21 August 2022, 18:16:13
r/budgetkeyboards is the new "stop gatekeeping our gatekeeping" corner.

r/mechanicalkeyboards is the new spot for budgetkeebs and GMK hate .

r/customkeebs is the only place worth visiting anymore... aside from GH.

My reasoning... post a nice custom board on r/mk with GMK caps and people will ignore it because "must be nice to be rich". Post the same board on r/ck where they legit have only 10% as many viewers and it'll get upvoted like crazy because they actually like nice stuff there.

Forget about budget keebs... they banned me for telling someone Gateron makes better products than Akko and their milky yellows are cheaper than most anything Akko sells. Got banned for "sharing my opinion as a fact" LMFAO but the mods will claim up and down I was harassing someone... too bad I got receipts from when a mod let me back in because "I dont see anything youve done wrong". LOL


There is only 1 true path, Split + Tented ,   You're all 1nfidels in the eyes of the True Keebers.


(https://i.imgur.com/RSB9WCf.gif)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sun, 21 August 2022, 18:21:39
r/budgetkeyboards is the new "stop gatekeeping our gatekeeping" corner.

r/mechanicalkeyboards is the new spot for budgetkeebs and GMK hate .

r/customkeebs is the only place worth visiting anymore... aside from GH.

My reasoning... post a nice custom board on r/mk with GMK caps and people will ignore it because "must be nice to be rich". Post the same board on r/ck where they legit have only 10% as many viewers and it'll get upvoted like crazy because they actually like nice stuff there.

Forget about budget keebs... they banned me for telling someone Gateron makes better products than Akko and their milky yellows are cheaper than most anything Akko sells. Got banned for "sharing my opinion as a fact" LMFAO but the mods will claim up and down I was harassing someone... too bad I got receipts from when a mod let me back in because "I dont see anything youve done wrong". LOL


There is only 1 true path, Split + Tented ,   You're all 1nfidels in the eyes of the True Keebers.


Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/RSB9WCf.gif)

This is the first time I've seen Tp4 outside of Off Topic. He's breached containment.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 22 August 2022, 08:04:12

He's breached containment.


Prior to plant-based diet screeds, ergodox was his primary crusade.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Morbii on Mon, 22 August 2022, 08:51:10
I don't just like my caps lock, I love it.  And I use it frequently -- basically any time I have more than a single capital letter in a row. 

I don't have a problem reaching for CTRL, so I see no reason to put it in place of caps lock (and I might even use CTRL less depending on what I'm doing).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: farlig on Mon, 22 August 2022, 19:10:26
I don't just like my caps lock, I love it.  And I use it frequently -- basically any time I have more than a single capital letter in a row. 

I don't have a problem reaching for CTRL, so I see no reason to put it in place of caps lock (and I might even use CTRL less depending on what I'm doing).

I am even worse, I never use shift for capital letters, caps lock only, even single letters.  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 23 August 2022, 04:29:36

All my formative years of typing were on the Apple IIe, Sun and Happy Hacking keyboards, so I always instinctively reach just left of the A key for Control. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bearwithtea on Tue, 23 August 2022, 14:49:37
The budget scene right now strikes me as much more interesting than any higher level manufacturer's offerings.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: selsik on Wed, 24 August 2022, 01:16:34
The budget scene right now strikes me as much more interesting than any higher level manufacturer's offerings.

Populated ≠ interesting

hotswap only, without visual flair, daughterboardless, foam everywhere, gasket mount only keyboards - there, summed up the entire budget scene for you
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Wed, 24 August 2022, 01:58:51
The budget scene right now strikes me as much more interesting than any higher level manufacturer's offerings.

Populated ≠ interesting

hotswap only, without visual flair, daughterboardless, foam everywhere, gasket mount only keyboards - there, summed up the entire budget scene for you
thats's why i bought redragon k552 to mod it, change switches and keycaps
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Thu, 25 August 2022, 02:31:56
The budget scene right now strikes me as much more interesting than any higher level manufacturer's offerings.

Populated ≠ interesting

hotswap only, without visual flair, daughterboardless, foam everywhere, gasket mount only keyboards - there, summed up the entire budget scene for you

Oh you forgot how they shame anyone who has something nice even if it was cheap and the reddit itself is run by a huge man-baby.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Thu, 25 August 2022, 02:58:26
Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 25 August 2022, 03:10:35
Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

You failed to have an unpopular opinion
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Thu, 25 August 2022, 06:23:34
Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

You failed to have an unpopular opinion

Look at any keeb group and its a pretty unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 25 August 2022, 10:50:34
Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

You failed to have an unpopular opinion

Look at any keeb group and its a pretty unpopular opinion.


Flipped spacebars are better if your wrist are low, if your wrists are high, then you go unflipped.

The surface merely matches the attack angle of the thumb, it's not a mystery.

Irrelevant though, because Split + Tented is superior in every way.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 25 August 2022, 18:43:17

Flipped spacebars are better if your wrist are low, if your wrists are high, then you go unflipped.


If your wrists are "low" your setup is an ergonomics fail.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 25 August 2022, 21:21:14
Flipped spacebars are better if your wrist are low, if your wrists are high, then you go unflipped.
If your wrists are "low" your setup is an ergonomics fail.

not always, it depends on seating height.  there's NO optimal, it's a fluid zone.  I've tried everything from bed mounted computer table to standing desk.    You need a bit of everything for different situations.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 25 August 2022, 22:33:09

Keyboard is supposed to be at basically elbow-level or a little lower if your arms are relaxed at your side.  If your wrists are "low" your keyboard is too high.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fortissim2 on Thu, 15 September 2022, 13:31:06
Instead of using 7 1.25u keys and a 6.25u spacebar, we should just use 12 1.25u keys. It would be funny :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 15 September 2022, 16:31:01

  I've never understood why the spacebar remained so huge, while other keycaps are still marooned out on the corners of the keyboard.  (backspace/delete in particular)  My thumbs rest in the same spots and could easily tap 1.25-2.00 u keycaps instead of a 6.25u river barge.  Would be cool to optimize the "spacebar" size/position and have delete/backspace relocated in some of that space around the middle of that bottom row.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Fri, 16 September 2022, 07:54:02
I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Sat, 17 September 2022, 11:00:53
I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns
How unpopular
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Sun, 18 September 2022, 03:33:10
I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself.  :p
not rally a unpopular opinion
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Sun, 18 September 2022, 04:25:08
I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself.  :p

Gotta be two of the most popular opinions on this entire site.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bigtailcat on Mon, 19 September 2022, 04:44:30
Most of the knobs on the keyboard are not practical, except for which is near the spacebar, like a rollerbar.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Thu, 22 September 2022, 01:05:10

  I've never understood why the spacebar remained so huge, while other keycaps are still marooned out on the corners of the keyboard.  (backspace/delete in particular)  My thumbs rest in the same spots and could easily tap 1.25-2.00 u keycaps instead of a 6.25u river barge.  Would be cool to optimize the "spacebar" size/position and have delete/backspace relocated in some of that space around the middle of that bottom row.
If you thought that 6.25U was too much for a space bar, check out this 10U badboy on a Wyse 160 Keyboard (genuine cherry :) ):
(https://i.imgur.com/2RguDRZ.jpeg)

Why yes, it rattles like hell :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Thu, 22 September 2022, 01:19:50
Most of the knobs on the keyboard are not practical, except for which is near the spacebar, like a rollerbar.
I have found that having one in the top left corner works really well:
(https://i.imgur.com/HZKJ3BK.jpeg)
I actually have layers set up to make it do different jobs:
layer1: volume
layer2: fast scroll (5x scrollwheel clicks per click)
layer3: horizontal scroll
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Bigtailcat on Thu, 22 September 2022, 01:45:29
Most of the knobs on the keyboard are not practical, except for which is near the spacebar, like a rollerbar.
I have found that having one in the top left corner works really well:
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/HZKJ3BK.jpeg)

I actually have layers set up to make it do different jobs:
layer1: volume
layer2: fast scroll (5x scrollwheel clicks per click)
layer3: horizontal scroll
:thumb: Multi-layer knob, that's pretty cool! The knob in the top left corner reminds me of Logitech Craft.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Thu, 22 September 2022, 21:47:36
Over the past couple of pages, this thread has turned into "what are incredibly common opinions on keyboards?"

What's going on here- is there some massive divergence of opinion between Reddit (or some other enthusiast site) and GH?

I would offer these opinions instead:

TLK is great, until you do any half serious Excel work, and then TKL just sucks ass. I can't even imagine using Excel with a board that was sub-TKL, without proper nav clusters.

Southpaw full sized boards- meh. The effort to relearn decades of muscle memory is a pain.

If you're going to be a keyboard enthusiast, then presumably typing is an important part of your life. Type properly- punctuate, capitalise, use paragraphs. And learn how to touch type.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 23 September 2022, 08:14:59

until you do any half serious Excel work

without proper nav clusters.

The effort to relearn decades of muscle memory is a pain.

presumably typing is an important part of your life. Type properly- punctuate, capitalise, use paragraphs. And learn how to touch type.


Right on !
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Fri, 30 September 2022, 07:36:14
I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself.  :p

Gotta be two of the most popular opinions on this entire site.

Not in the deeper end of the community. It's a common opinion for beginners who haven't tried either of those things but I see a lot of enthusiasts who love both MX Browns and GMK.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Fri, 30 September 2022, 07:38:21
Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

They look stupid for sure in my opinion. I hit space with my index finger so it makes typing feel much worse but if I force myself to use my thumb it definitely does feel more natural to have it flipped. I don't think aesthetics were taken into consideration when this technique was thought up, I've only heard people saying it feels and sounds better.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Fri, 30 September 2022, 07:43:01
my unpopular opinion here is that i dont like any keyboard that oesn't have standart mx style switches.
topre-rubber basically a membrane that activates mid travel aalso expensive
alps- heard they have good clickies but they dont work for standard pcbs now and are hard to get and im talking about original ones
buckling spring- heard that original ibm keyboards are pretty expensive also old and only clicky not removable too
other strange old switches -no

Buckling spring isn't expensive at all. You can find old Model Ms for like $40 or less on Craigslist or EBay. If you don't wanna go through the struggle of cleaning and restoring you can still get a factory fresh Model M from Unicomp for under $120 (if you live in the US at least. Not sure how Unicomp's shipping is to other countries).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Fri, 30 September 2022, 07:44:45
i despise the PE foam mod, it ruins the uniqueness in switches and boards and makes every single board sound like marbles.
It can sound good but you ideally don't want 15 boards all sounding the same with hundreds of dollars of price difference

Not really an unpopular opinion.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Fri, 30 September 2022, 22:41:24
Over the past couple of pages, this thread has turned into "what are incredibly common opinions on keyboards?"

What's going on here- is there some massive divergence of opinion between Reddit (or some other enthusiast site) and GH?

You want an unpopular opinion? The artisan space is culty and reminds me of NFT bros.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Fri, 30 September 2022, 23:10:05
Over the past couple of pages, this thread has turned into "what are incredibly common opinions on keyboards?"

Windows blockers are one of the dumbest things the keyboard community has come up with. Not only are they hideous aesthetically as they ruin the lines of boards and introduce awkwardly flat gaps causing an unnatural and wide gap in the keys, but they're just pointless. Not only is the windows key often useful, but even if you don't use it for that it can be remapped to any number of other options. Even if for some reason you REALLY hate having a windows key, spare macro, etc, you could just remap it to nothing. There's no reason to turn a perfectly good board into something less useful and more ugly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Sat, 01 October 2022, 01:53:01
Windows blockers are one of the dumbest things the keyboard community has come up with
The keyboard community didn't really invent the WKL blocker, it's a pretty prominent feature on many older boards such as the 89u, old g80s,at101s and the model M. The community just picked up on its aesthetics. I'd also guess it makes support for vintage dshots nicer, especially on older boards and the trend just continued.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sat, 01 October 2022, 18:03:11
The budget scene right now strikes me as much more interesting than any higher level manufacturer's offerings.

Populated ≠ interesting

hotswap only, without visual flair, daughterboardless, foam everywhere, gasket mount only keyboards - there, summed up the entire budget scene for you

Unfortunately, you are largely right. Hotswap-only is especially annoying, as it puts into question the longevity of the board.

Too many gasket mounts, as well. Don't get me wrong - my Aurora is great with silent switches.

But for a tactile build, I'd want top mount and a polycarb plate. Why can't they bring a KBD67 Lite in the VA68 layout?

Or even a top-mount Aurora.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Mon, 03 October 2022, 07:13:14
Unpopular Opinion:

Flipped spacebars dont feel better and they look stupid.

You failed to have an unpopular opinion

Look at any keeb group and its a pretty unpopular opinion.

Over the past couple of pages, this thread has turned into "what are incredibly common opinions on keyboards?"

Windows blockers are one of the dumbest things the keyboard community has come up with. Not only are they hideous aesthetically as they ruin the lines of boards and introduce awkwardly flat gaps causing an unnatural and wide gap in the keys, but they're just pointless. Not only is the windows key often useful, but even if you don't use it for that it can be remapped to any number of other options. Even if for some reason you REALLY hate having a windows key, spare macro, etc, you could just remap it to nothing. There's no reason to turn a perfectly good board into something less useful and more ugly.

I agree, but I love how they look most of the time. Sadly I use the Windows key way too much to give it up for a few aesthetics points.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: norm on Sun, 09 October 2022, 18:36:57
People who have big boards should be locked up in an asylum. Taking your hand off the keyboard to grab the mouse is already bad enough......but taking your hands off the home row for anything else?
Insane. ;]

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 09 October 2022, 19:58:45

Taking your hand off the keyboard to grab the mouse


With mice on both sides you always have at least one keyboard hand free.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 10 October 2022, 02:51:53
I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself.  :p

Gotta be two of the most popular opinions on this entire site.

Not in the deeper end of the community. It's a common opinion for beginners who haven't tried either of those things but I see a lot of enthusiasts who love both MX Browns and GMK.

I'd think that practically everyone has tried MX Browns, they're kind of the default switch besides MX Blues.

I'd also think that people with longer term experience have moved well past obsessing over a specific cap manufacturer, especially if they've also moved beyond being limited to Cherry MX compatibility. Indifference is probably more accurate a term.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ArchDill on Mon, 10 October 2022, 09:16:12
I unironically dislike Cherry MX Browns, and GMK is overpriced. Yes I have tried both of those things myself.  :p

Yeah, most of us would agree with this.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Wed, 12 October 2022, 14:39:08

  I've never understood why the spacebar remained so huge, while other keycaps are still marooned out on the corners of the keyboard.  (backspace/delete in particular)  My thumbs rest in the same spots and could easily tap 1.25-2.00 u keycaps instead of a 6.25u river barge.  Would be cool to optimize the "spacebar" size/position and have delete/backspace relocated in some of that space around the middle of that bottom row.

It's a historic holdover from the typewriter days, just like key stagger. It's still around for the same reason your cellphone makes dial tone noises when you hit the numbers; people expect it.

Typewriters needed to have a long space bar because it was originally integral to the carriage advance design, and that's how they had to do it. Keys were staggered to make room for for the linkages to the hammers. Early computer makers tried to do away with these designs occasionally, but IBM didn't, and since all keyboards are still essentially copying IBM's layout to this very day, here we are.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Wed, 12 October 2022, 14:44:51
I personally like the feel of Cherry MX Reds for general typing. I find the lack of any tactility refreshing compared to the blues or browns, and even occasionally better clicky switches like buckling spring, because it means less resistance on the keystroke. Less resistance means I can type comfortably for longer. Once I got used to where the actuation point was, they were nice and light to type on.

I still like buckling springs better on the whole, but they come with the disadvantage of being attached to big, bulky, noisy and inconvenient keyboards most of the time, so I've been choosing reds over my model M or F most of the time recently.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Thu, 13 October 2022, 12:14:56
I personally like the feel of Cherry MX Reds for general typing. I find the lack of any tactility refreshing compared to the blues or browns, and even occasionally better clicky switches like buckling spring, because it means less resistance on the keystroke. Less resistance means I can type comfortably for longer. Once I got used to where the actuation point was, they were nice and light to type on.

I still like buckling springs better on the whole, but they come with the disadvantage of being attached to big, bulky, noisy and inconvenient keyboards most of the time, so I've been choosing reds over my model M or F most of the time recently.

They are definitely noisy, but what do you mean by big and bulky?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Fri, 14 October 2022, 09:59:20
I personally like the feel of Cherry MX Reds for general typing. I find the lack of any tactility refreshing compared to the blues or browns, and even occasionally better clicky switches like buckling spring, because it means less resistance on the keystroke. Less resistance means I can type comfortably for longer. Once I got used to where the actuation point was, they were nice and light to type on.

I still like buckling springs better on the whole, but they come with the disadvantage of being attached to big, bulky, noisy and inconvenient keyboards most of the time, so I've been choosing reds over my model M or F most of the time recently.

They are definitely noisy, but what do you mean by big and bulky?

Good point.  It's unfair to say all (or even most) Model F's are big and bulky. The problem is that almost all of these boards have sacrifices to the layout.

If you need a modern layout (which I did) the only way to get close is to lightly modify an F122. That's what I own, and it's a beast.  I might be able to make due with an F104, which is roughly the width of a full sized Model M at least, but good luck finding one.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Tue, 25 October 2022, 08:04:02
I personally like the feel of Cherry MX Reds for general typing. I find the lack of any tactility refreshing compared to the blues or browns, and even occasionally better clicky switches like buckling spring, because it means less resistance on the keystroke. Less resistance means I can type comfortably for longer. Once I got used to where the actuation point was, they were nice and light to type on.

I still like buckling springs better on the whole, but they come with the disadvantage of being attached to big, bulky, noisy and inconvenient keyboards most of the time, so I've been choosing reds over my model M or F most of the time recently.

They are definitely noisy, but what do you mean by big and bulky?

Good point.  It's unfair to say all (or even most) Model F's are big and bulky. The problem is that almost all of these boards have sacrifices to the layout.

If you need a modern layout (which I did) the only way to get close is to lightly modify an F122. That's what I own, and it's a beast.  I might be able to make due with an F104, which is roughly the width of a full sized Model M at least, but good luck finding one.

Have you tried a New Model F? They have their cons compared to the real deal but they have modern layouts + more options for sizes and designs, like the Modern Case Ultra Compact F 62
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: caughtquick on Wed, 26 October 2022, 00:09:54
Zaku switches are carried more by momentum and anime hype than they are by actual switch performance. Not to say they aren't good switches, but there are many switches that are virtually identical for less that don't sell as well and aren't as popular.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fortissim2 on Wed, 26 October 2022, 13:59:06
Zaku switches are carried more by momentum and anime hype than they are by actual switch performance. Not to say they aren't good switches, but there are many switches that are virtually identical for less that don't sell as well and aren't as popular.
I also feel like every switch in the market nowadays has an actuation force of either 62.5gf or 63.5gf, or some wacky number. There's literally no variety other than the switch material and the colour combinations. It kinda sucks for me because I can't stand anything above 50gf.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Thu, 27 October 2022, 07:30:54
Zaku switches are carried more by momentum and anime hype than they are by actual switch performance. Not to say they aren't good switches, but there are many switches that are virtually identical for less that don't sell as well and aren't as popular.

ive seen some people acknowledge that there are similar switches, but they want zakus because the white on white looks good. idk if thats the case for everyone but i know there are some people who like them because of that
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Thu, 27 October 2022, 21:38:19
I personally like the feel of Cherry MX Reds for general typing. I find the lack of any tactility refreshing compared to the blues or browns, and even occasionally better clicky switches like buckling spring, because it means less resistance on the keystroke. Less resistance means I can type comfortably for longer. Once I got used to where the actuation point was, they were nice and light to type on.

I still like buckling springs better on the whole, but they come with the disadvantage of being attached to big, bulky, noisy and inconvenient keyboards most of the time, so I've been choosing reds over my model M or F most of the time recently.

They are definitely noisy, but what do you mean by big and bulky?

Good point.  It's unfair to say all (or even most) Model F's are big and bulky. The problem is that almost all of these boards have sacrifices to the layout.

If you need a modern layout (which I did) the only way to get close is to lightly modify an F122. That's what I own, and it's a beast.  I might be able to make due with an F104, which is roughly the width of a full sized Model M at least, but good luck finding one.

Have you tried a New Model F? They have their cons compared to the real deal but they have modern layouts + more options for sizes and designs, like the Modern Case Ultra Compact F 62

No, not yet. I did buy flipper/spring assemblies from the project very early on to get an idea of the key feel though.

They're very tempting, but I need the function keys intact. I'm an IBM iSeries developer by trade, which means I need F1-F12 allot, plus shift + F1-12 to access F13-24... or in the case of the F122, they're actually on the keyboard! HAving to Fn + shift + Fkey all they time would get old fast.

This leaves me with tenkeyless enhanced layouts at a bare minimum. A Model F with the exact size and layout of a Corsair K63 is the dream for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Thu, 27 October 2022, 21:54:09
Is it unpopular to say that I despise it when people tear apart old computers/typewriters just for their keyswitches?

If it's a keyboard from an old terminal that literally cannot be used for anything anymore, the machine is damaged beyond repair, or you need other parts to save a better machine and the keys would otherwise be wasted... that's one thing. But if you're taking perfectly working old computers/typewriters and ripping them apart to make a keyboard, that's sacrilegious. It ruins a perfectly good hobby for other enthusiasts, just so you can have a slightly better feeling keyboard, as if there weren't a world of switch options out there. It's beyond selfish.

Apple IIcs are uncommon enough. Let them be.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: NoteMakoti on Fri, 28 October 2022, 01:24:24
Zaku switches are carried more by momentum and anime hype than they are by actual switch performance. Not to say they aren't good switches, but there are many switches that are virtually identical for less that don't sell as well and aren't as popular.
Gonna be an autist here and live up to my avi by pointing out that Shin Matsunaga and his white Zaku never actually show up in the anime.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 28 October 2022, 07:55:38

the keys would otherwise be wasted


I understand this sentiment, and partially agree with it.

On the other hand the number of people who are interested in keeping and using 30+ year old computer systems is quite small, while there are literally millions (billions?) of people who use modern computers every day. I feel certain that the number of people in the subset who want good keyboards to use in the modern world is orders of magnitude greater than the number of people who actually want to use primitive computers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Sat, 29 October 2022, 14:53:57

the keys would otherwise be wasted


I understand this sentiment, and partially agree with it.

On the other hand the number of people who are interested in keeping and using 30+ year old computer systems is quite small, while there are literally millions (billions?) of people who use modern computers every day. I feel certain that the number of people in the subset who want good keyboards to use in the modern world is orders of magnitude greater than the number of people who actually want to use primitive computers.

I think you're right that the subset of people who want a good keyboard is higher than classic computer collectors, but the subset of people who want a good keyboard and are willing to hack one out of an old computer and figure out how to get it to work with their modern computer is smaller than classic computer collectors. But at the same time, and especially for rare systems, that subset is enough to drive the prices on those computers to the moon and make them unattainable for those that want to preserve them.

I personally keep around one old computer, an Atari 800, because it's an excellent games machine for its time and it's fun to see what software was around for a machine released in 1979 (thankfully it has abysmal Stackpole switches that nobody would ever want... though its keycaps are very high quality.) Other people like to collect old computers for their games, as sort of "museum" pieces to relive their youth, or just curiosity pieces to see how far computers have come. If the popularity of channels like LGR and The 8-Bit Guy are anything to go off of, there's a decent market there.

Which makes it feel bad to think about somebody wanting to preserve a piece of the past getting shut out of the computer they want because most of them have been cannibalized for for their keyboards.

I'd draw the line at things like terminals because a)you can't really use them as intended anymore, b)even when they were used, it wasn't for anything fun and c)just saving the keyboards from them (and maybe some parts for other old PCs like their CRTs) is probably more than would've been saved otherwise. For example, I salvaged my F122 from a 3180 terminal where the rest of the unit was in pretty rough shape, and to be fair I tried to sell the rest of the terminal for about two months and there were no takers. The Model F would've been trash if I didn't snag it, instead of just a CRT with an incredible amount of burn in.

Likewise for any old computer that was on the brink of being e-waste otherwise. Better to downcycle than throw away.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: jamster on Mon, 31 October 2022, 06:20:31
Is it unpopular to say that I despise it when people tear apart old computers/typewriters just for their keyswitches?

If it's a keyboard from an old terminal that literally cannot be used for anything anymore, the machine is damaged beyond repair, or you need other parts to save a better machine and the keys would otherwise be wasted... that's one thing. But if you're taking perfectly working old computers/typewriters and ripping them apart to make a keyboard, that's sacrilegious. It ruins a perfectly good hobby for other enthusiasts, just so you can have a slightly better feeling keyboard, as if there weren't a world of switch options out there. It's beyond selfish.

Apple IIcs are uncommon enough. Let them be.

I have no issue with old computers being ripped apart, and I grew up with old computers.

The only old computers I've seen again and been impressed by were in a museum- PDP-11, IBM mainframe. I have a soft spot for old Amigas. Otherwise, I think that old computers are best preserved in emulators. From memory, the keyboards from 80s personal computers were pretty bad- do people really salvage parts from them? Edit: I guess the keycaps could be good, no idea what they might be compatible with though.

I do congratulate you on a genuinely unpopular opinion though, and getting this thread back on track :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 31 October 2022, 08:18:13

Is it unpopular to say that I despise it when people tear apart old computers/typewriters just for their keyswitches?

If it's a keyboard from an old terminal that literally cannot be used for anything anymore, the machine is damaged beyond repair, or you need other parts to save a better machine and the keys would otherwise be wasted... that's one thing. But if you're taking perfectly working old computers/typewriters and ripping them apart to make a keyboard, that's sacrilegious. It ruins a perfectly good hobby for other enthusiasts, just so you can have a slightly better feeling keyboard, as if there weren't a world of switch options out there.


Case in point -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134307113174?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=b46afe152e014a59a9553bc7a1894e57&bu=43208930367&ut=RU&exe=0&ext=0&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20221031055722&segname=11021 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/134307113174?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=b46afe152e014a59a9553bc7a1894e57&bu=43208930367&ut=RU&exe=0&ext=0&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20221031055722&segname=11021)

TL;DR version
"They had this in the storeroom for a very long time and now we have it. We sold the keyboard for 300 so we are going to keep the computer together with the original monitor"
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 03 November 2022, 17:02:35

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Thu, 03 November 2022, 19:21:49

Is it unpopular to say that I despise it when people tear apart old computers/typewriters just for their keyswitches?

If it's a keyboard from an old terminal that literally cannot be used for anything anymore, the machine is damaged beyond repair, or you need other parts to save a better machine and the keys would otherwise be wasted... that's one thing. But if you're taking perfectly working old computers/typewriters and ripping them apart to make a keyboard, that's sacrilegious. It ruins a perfectly good hobby for other enthusiasts, just so you can have a slightly better feeling keyboard, as if there weren't a world of switch options out there.


Case in point -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134307113174?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=b46afe152e014a59a9553bc7a1894e57&bu=43208930367&ut=RU&exe=0&ext=0&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20221031055722&segname=11021 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/134307113174?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=b46afe152e014a59a9553bc7a1894e57&bu=43208930367&ut=RU&exe=0&ext=0&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20221031055722&segname=11021)

TL;DR version
"They had this in the storeroom for a very long time and now we have it. We sold the keyboard for 300 so we are going to keep the computer together with the original monitor"


This case makes me... slightly less mad, since at least the rest of the system works. It still sucks that they ruined a complete set, but at least it's just a PC clone and should be functional with almost any XT board.

What really grinds my gears is when people do things like rip apart Apple IIC's for their switches. The keyboard is integral to the computer, so there's nothing you can do to "fix" that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Pretendo on Thu, 03 November 2022, 19:26:17

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO



IBM curved backplate with uniform keys all the way, baby! We get all the ergonomics, with the ability to adopt any crazy custom layouts we want (even though we never will.)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Tue, 08 November 2022, 13:10:32
top mount (or similar) is the best mounting style, and gasket mount is overrated

i might have got a pretty popular opinion though
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: selsik on Sun, 13 November 2022, 01:13:26

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO

Tall profile enjoyer hating on other tall profiles. What's wrong with you man?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Sun, 13 November 2022, 02:29:43

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO




PBT MT3 FTW
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sun, 13 November 2022, 09:31:50

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO




PBT MT3 FTW
I've got PBT MT3 with zeal's 75g Clickiez and it just sounds *Chef's kiss*
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: butre on Wed, 16 November 2022, 14:44:15

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO
here's another: Domikey SA is miles ahead of SP SA and the lack of custom domikey sets is a crime
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 16 November 2022, 14:59:27
here's another: Domikey SA is miles ahead of SP SA and the lack of custom domikey sets is a crime

 Details?  I have both, but have not compared in detail. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: barooca on Sun, 20 November 2022, 04:04:45
i like floating boards
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: AshF on Sun, 20 November 2022, 08:33:01
Water suspended PCB's - horrible!

Sent from my ASUS_I003D using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: PlayBox on Sun, 20 November 2022, 12:43:12
i hate the amount of gmk sets. no the gmk sets in particular but how mamy of them are on ic or gb. it happens with others too like epbt etc. its very boring to see only keycap sets in my unread section
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Mon, 21 November 2022, 06:37:51

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO
here's another: Domikey SA is miles ahead of SP SA and the lack of custom domikey sets is a crime

Definitely an unpopular opinion. Why do you believe this?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Mon, 21 November 2022, 08:16:57

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO

SA subjectively objectively the best but cherry is okay and MT3 is gr8 too
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: 1setups on Sun, 04 December 2022, 04:43:32
I got 2 left hands.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: volvo244t on Sun, 04 December 2022, 19:30:41
The font on the Drop MT3 alphas is ugly and is what's kept me from getting a Dasher and Jukebox set.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 11 April 2023, 19:11:20

  Watching people in this community of "keyboard enthusiasts" do video typing demonstrations causes me extreme anxiety because lots of them don't seem to be able to locate "home row".  I just can't watch those wandering hands and inconsistent motions....drives me nuts.   :eek:     

  Beyond the "hunt-and-peck" crowd like my dad, is some of it related to various countries using non-"english" keymaps?  I can understand if that's the case and they just got forced into a bad ergonomics.  (keyboard privilege checked)

(and while we're on that subject a big FU to whoever came up with home row breaking direction key combo abominations like WASD and HJKL   Infidels!)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Tue, 11 April 2023, 22:25:29
I still don't even know if I know how to type on the home row. I've learned it multiple times but when the rubber hits the road I find myself doing what my mother once described as "Spider typing" and what I say is more akin t playing DDR on a keyboard when you have no clue how to play DDR. I'll stay generally grounded on the home row but sometimes when I start typing at higher speeds fingers that are not being used will substitute for fingers that are occupied (stuff like hitting G with right index instead of left.)
To come back to the DDR comparison, it's like the letters are coming down my mind faster than anticipated and my hands are frantically trying to translate that into motor function, flailing about on my letter table until I either make a typo or somehow complete my sentence.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Tue, 11 April 2023, 22:37:52

I appreciate that you really go all-in with it and let your freak fingers fly to parts unknown  ;D  It would probably blow my mind  ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: butre on Wed, 12 April 2023, 01:01:54

A sadly unpopular opinion: SA will rule the keyboardspace as the best profile with the highest quality feel for all eternity

Cherry is cheap consumer junk

MT3 can just GTFO
here's another: Domikey SA is miles ahead of SP SA and the lack of custom domikey sets is a crime

Definitely an unpopular opinion. Why do you believe this?
the ABS blend they use is a bit harder wearing than SP's ABS and nobody beats domikey for bar straightness, not even SP.  I also like the sound of them a little better, it's a good bit more full to my ears, but that's preference.

the only gripe I have with them is the <> keys.  the font there is funky
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 21 May 2023, 08:24:25
Centred legends on long keys (1.5 and above) look like crap.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Tue, 23 May 2023, 03:35:52
Endgame is real.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Tue, 23 May 2023, 15:32:48
Endgame is real.
I've seen more people who were chasing endgame exit the hobby than I can count.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Wed, 24 May 2023, 18:49:25
Quote
I've seen more people who were chasing endgame exit the hobby than I can count.

I found mine. Took me 20 boards and I still have 3 more on the way with only 1 of them still peaking my interest. I am still working on perfecting my board but I know the potential is there. I just need to fix my spacebar a bit. Today I made good progress but I do think a little case foam around the spacebar only is going to really make it perfect.

It's a Class65 V1 in beige. Matches perfect to the alphas of the GMK Analog Dreams set. I have lubed JWK Taro tactiles and tuned cherry screw-in stabs. The soldered PCB has been millmaxed to split backspace and a 7u spacebar. No case foam no plate foam. Currently only using some spacebar foam to make the bigboi 7u less hollow. Removed the brass weight because it caused ping and the case is heavy enough as is to stay very firmly planted. And the PCB slits have been covered using KeebMat's keebtape; a 1mm clear adhesive acrylic cut to fit perfectly.

Again, I need to work on the spacebar a tad. Stabs feel great. No ticking at all. My only issue is how much hollower the 7u sounds. Some foam in the spacebar cleared it up a bit. But I think some foam surrounding the switch and stabs will bring it to exactly where I want. Ill probably cut up some KBDfans plate foam to avoid destroying my MM Studios stock foam.

I have a mechcables half cable with a matching teal USB and cream cable. And I'm waiting for my P Craft artisans. I won 3 from their Analog Dream raffle so they will go in the right side column.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52923895738_100ce7cbde_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tribal on Fri, 26 May 2023, 09:11:03
All MX tactile and clicky switches are inferior to Alps/Matias and buckling spring when it comes to typing.  MX’s only advantages are availability, stem compatibility, RGB, and hotswap, and even then buckling spring has an advantage in that the 1u keycaps are interchangeable between rows.

Loud tactiles? Get SKCM Orange/Salmon/Black or remove the bumpers on Matias
Quiet tactiles?  Get Matias QC (or Topre)
Clicky? CBS, MBS, SKCM Blue/White, and Matias Click are all great.
Something cheap (sub-$100)?  Plenty of options, including new Matias, on eBay.
Small form factor?  CBS and MBS can be had in TKL from Ellipse and Unicomp and Matias even has a 75%.
Wireless? Matias Laptop Pro or easy Bluetooth mods

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Fri, 26 May 2023, 10:51:43
Sorry, was this thread renamed "popular opinions" whilst I wasn't looking?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Fri, 26 May 2023, 17:25:49
Legit, none of these are unpopular anymore lol
All MX tactile and clicky switches are inferior to Alps/Matias and buckling spring when it comes to typing.  MX’s only advantages are availability, stem compatibility, RGB, and hotswap, and even then buckling spring has an advantage in that the 1u keycaps are interchangeable between rows.

Loud tactiles? Get SKCM Orange/Salmon/Black or remove the bumpers on Matias
Quiet tactiles?  Get Matias QC (or Topre)
Clicky? CBS, MBS, SKCM Blue/White, and Matias Click are all great.
Something cheap (sub-$100)?  Plenty of options, including new Matias, on eBay.
Small form factor?  CBS and MBS can be had in TKL from Ellipse and Unicomp and Matias even has a 75%.
Wireless? Matias Laptop Pro or easy Bluetooth mods



Like no offense but this is the most basic ***** take I've ever seen, especially since one Dutchman got so popular and people decided to take his words as gospel and not suggestion.
Want to know my unpopular opinion?
There is no best switch. Every switch is designed with different purposes in mind. Alps has a different design philosophy to MX, and those are different from MY, and Mitsumi mini mechs, and every other switch.
It's not even my take! I stole it!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Tribal on Sat, 27 May 2023, 10:40:35
Legit, none of these are unpopular anymore lol
All MX tactile and clicky switches are inferior to Alps/Matias and buckling spring when it comes to typing.  MX’s only advantages are availability, stem compatibility, RGB, and hotswap, and even then buckling spring has an advantage in that the 1u keycaps are interchangeable between rows.

Loud tactiles? Get SKCM Orange/Salmon/Black or remove the bumpers on Matias
Quiet tactiles?  Get Matias QC (or Topre)
Clicky? CBS, MBS, SKCM Blue/White, and Matias Click are all great.
Something cheap (sub-$100)?  Plenty of options, including new Matias, on eBay.
Small form factor?  CBS and MBS can be had in TKL from Ellipse and Unicomp and Matias even has a 75%.
Wireless? Matias Laptop Pro or easy Bluetooth mods



Like no offense but this is the most basic ***** take I've ever seen, especially since one Dutchman got so popular and people decided to take his words as gospel and not suggestion.
Want to know my unpopular opinion?
There is no best switch. Every switch is designed with different purposes in mind. Alps has a different design philosophy to MX, and those are different from MY, and Mitsumi mini mechs, and every other switch.
It's not even my take! I stole it!

Popular on GeekHack and Deskthority, maybe, but not the wider mech keyboard community or computer users in general by a long shot.  These two sites are a tiny, tiny sliver of the population.

And to be clear, MX is virtually trash as tactiles or clickies.  Their reedeming value comes exclusively from the boards and keycaps.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sun, 28 May 2023, 11:49:09
Legit, none of these are unpopular anymore lol
All MX tactile and clicky switches are inferior to Alps/Matias and buckling spring when it comes to typing.  MX’s only advantages are availability, stem compatibility, RGB, and hotswap, and even then buckling spring has an advantage in that the 1u keycaps are interchangeable between rows.

Loud tactiles? Get SKCM Orange/Salmon/Black or remove the bumpers on Matias
Quiet tactiles?  Get Matias QC (or Topre)
Clicky? CBS, MBS, SKCM Blue/White, and Matias Click are all great.
Something cheap (sub-$100)?  Plenty of options, including new Matias, on eBay.
Small form factor?  CBS and MBS can be had in TKL from Ellipse and Unicomp and Matias even has a 75%.
Wireless? Matias Laptop Pro or easy Bluetooth mods



Like no offense but this is the most basic ***** take I've ever seen, especially since one Dutchman got so popular and people decided to take his words as gospel and not suggestion.
Want to know my unpopular opinion?
There is no best switch. Every switch is designed with different purposes in mind. Alps has a different design philosophy to MX, and those are different from MY, and Mitsumi mini mechs, and every other switch.
It's not even my take! I stole it!

Popular on GeekHack and Deskthority, maybe, but not the wider mech keyboard community or computer users in general by a long shot.  These two sites are a tiny, tiny sliver of the population.
Are they though? I was just talking with a friend about this while driving to the mode meetup. r/MK can claim to have as many users as it does but how many of those people are just average redditors who don't even own a keyboard or interact with the hobby but just sub for the interesting pictures. Keebmeup is a circus, and besides that unless you go to asia you're not going to find any other places where keyboard nerds congregate, and that's an entirely different scene.
Quote
And to be clear, MX is virtually trash as tactiles or clickies.  Their reedeming value comes exclusively from the boards and keycaps.
Only the sith deal in absolutes...
But in all seriousness I have to ask, how many switches, just any kind of switches have you tried. Like actually typed on. I'm not gonna say I've tried everything, but I've had my fair share of typing experiences and to write off all of MX besides linears screams of the same kinda brand loyalty you'll see people ascribe to video game companies. You're denying yourself experiences you might enjoy because you've scratched the surface of something and decided that you don't like it.
Bit of advice, find a keyboard meetup near you, or organize one yourself if you have to. Trust me, even if you come out of it still hating the living daylights out of MX platform switches I assure you that broadening your scope of reference will do you wonders and even make you appreciate your beloved alps switches even more.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LavenderB on Fri, 09 June 2023, 13:50:36
Quote
And to be clear, MX is virtually trash as tactiles or clickies.  Their reedeming value comes exclusively from the boards and keycaps.
Modern mx clicky switches certainly aren't trash, and mx tactiles could become better if manufacturers start basing switches on the tactile configuration in the zeal clickiez.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mathisart on Tue, 13 June 2023, 07:42:16
HHKB topres are too heavy and too tactile for me.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mandan on Fri, 16 June 2023, 10:35:05
(and while we're on that subject a big FU to whoever came up with home row breaking direction key combo abominations like WASD and HJKL   Infidels!)

HJKL was mostly from super-programmer Bill Joy, who wrote the vi text editor, among many, many other things.  He was using an ADM-3A terminal, which already had arrows on those keys, so he wasn't the first, but vi became the standard text editor in the Unix world, spreading it far and wide.

WASD appears to be from the gamer community, often credited to Dennis Fong, back when Quake was big in the 1990s.  Fong considered it an "inverted T" cursor pad, except on the left, so he could use his mouse on the right.

It could be worse.  Emacs uses control-FBPN for cursor movement, because Richard Stallman hates you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kolektador on Fri, 16 June 2023, 10:59:27
Good membrane keyboards can last just as long if not longer than mechanical keyboards.  :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mandan on Fri, 16 June 2023, 11:09:28
Good membrane keyboards can last just as long if not longer than mechanical keyboards.  :p

I have some Model Ms that are 35 years old, so I can't make an effective argument against that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kolektador on Sat, 17 June 2023, 05:57:35
Keyboard flex test is a useless test and has an impact so little with typing feel if any at all, it is negligible :p
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Sat, 17 June 2023, 06:36:28
(and while we're on that subject a big FU to whoever came up with home row breaking direction key combo abominations like WASD and HJKL   Infidels!)

HJKL was mostly from super-programmer Bill Joy, who wrote the vi text editor, among many, many other things.  He was using an ADM-3A terminal, which already had arrows on those keys, so he wasn't the first, but vi became the standard text editor in the Unix world, spreading it far and wide.


Well, at least there's a fun historical reason.  The first time I saw our computational physics TA do some crazy vi editing of one of my programs in undergrad I was instantly hooked. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Sat, 17 June 2023, 20:08:01
Keyboard flex test is a useless test and has an impact so little with typing feel if any at all, it is negligible :p
Again this is stuff that I'm pretty sure is well known if you scratch a little deeper than surface level youtube videos and r/mk.
Flex has impact on typing feel, it's just that when people typically do it they press down with the weight of a thousand suns, which isn't reflective of actual typing. You want to see a legitimately bouncy board? get a mode Envoy. I've typed on those at meets and they're actually crazy bouncy, though if that's good or bad is up to you.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: StefanVoda on Sun, 18 June 2023, 05:44:08
HHKB topres are too heavy and too tactile for me.

Have you tried fresh (as in new out of the box) Topre 45g domes?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Genericusername56 on Wed, 05 July 2023, 10:36:49
Quote
And to be clear, MX is virtually trash as tactiles or clickies.  Their reedeming value comes exclusively from the boards and keycaps.
Modern mx clicky switches certainly aren't trash, and mx tactiles could become better if manufacturers start basing switches on the tactile configuration in the zeal clickiez.
What are some good MX clicky switches in your opinion? I haven't found any. Click bar switches sound horrible. Clickiez could have been good but sound way worse than Alps clicky switches that the design is based on and the feel is nowhere near. Way, way, way too sharp tactility.

Like no offense but this is the most basic ***** take I've ever seen, especially since one Dutchman got so popular and people decided to take his words as gospel and not suggestion.
Want to know my unpopular opinion?
There is no best switch. Every switch is designed with different purposes in mind. Alps has a different design philosophy to MX, and those are different from MY, and Mitsumi mini mechs, and every other switch.
It's not even my take! I stole it!

To be fair, the PURPOSE of a keyboard switch is probably pretty much the same for any switch ever made. And while the swearing dutchman surely has swayed people to hating on Cherry MX, he's not exactly wrong either. And I agree with the above poster regarding clicky switches. For tactile switches there are good MX ones, but any modern aluminium, gasket mount, O-ring, bandaidmodded or whatever trendy keyboard is not going to sound as nice as a bulkier vintage keyboard with, for example, Alps tactiles. And one glaring omission in the list of things Cherry MX does better than Alps, they aren't 90% likely to be scratchy and horrible on basically any board that has them because of their sensitivity to dust.

Only such a detail that the click sound and the switch activation are completely synchronized makes typing on CBS so much more enjoyable for me. They're also in my opinion the kind of feel that you should strive for in a clicky switch. Light but sharp tactility and a chunky sound (though that's obviously a matter of opinion). I'll forgive anyone that can't stand a Model F due to the pinging.

As for my own "unpopular opinion" (which probably isn't) Blue Alps, while very nice, are overhyped and overpriced (probably in part due to the fellow mentioned above). Don't get me wrong, they blow any Cherry MX compatible clicky switch out of the water both in feel and sound, but you can get basically all the way there by just click modding basically any other Alps switch that are much more common and accessible. The difference between a click modded black alps and a genuine blue one does not warrant the price increase. I'm guessing this is also true if you linearize them and compare with rare linear Alps switches. Linearizing or click-modding also has the effect of mostly negating the horrible scratchiness of a lot of tactile alps switches you can find today has, by the way.

Oh, and keycap sets that have legends that say something else than what the key actually does is stupid. This includes having symbols such as leaves, shovels or whatever ("novelties").
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Wed, 05 July 2023, 14:47:40
Quote
And to be clear, MX is virtually trash as tactiles or clickies.  Their reedeming value comes exclusively from the boards and keycaps.
Modern mx clicky switches certainly aren't trash, and mx tactiles could become better if manufacturers start basing switches on the tactile configuration in the zeal clickiez.
What are some good MX clicky switches in your opinion? I haven't found any. Click bar switches sound horrible. Clickiez could have been good but sound way worse than Alps clicky switches that the design is based on and the feel is nowhere near. Way, way, way too sharp tactility.

Like no offense but this is the most basic ***** take I've ever seen, especially since one Dutchman got so popular and people decided to take his words as gospel and not suggestion.
Want to know my unpopular opinion?
There is no best switch. Every switch is designed with different purposes in mind. Alps has a different design philosophy to MX, and those are different from MY, and Mitsumi mini mechs, and every other switch.
It's not even my take! I stole it!

To be fair, the PURPOSE of a keyboard switch is probably pretty much the same for any switch ever made. And while the swearing dutchman surely has swayed people to hating on Cherry MX, he's not exactly wrong either. And I agree with the above poster regarding clicky switches. For tactile switches there are good MX ones, but any modern aluminium, gasket mount, O-ring, bandaidmodded or whatever trendy keyboard is not going to sound as nice as a bulkier vintage keyboard with, for example, Alps tactiles. And one glaring omission in the list of things Cherry MX does better than Alps, they aren't 90% likely to be scratchy and horrible on basically any board that has them because of their sensitivity to dust.

Only such a detail that the click sound and the switch activation are completely synchronized makes typing on CBS so much more enjoyable for me. They're also in my opinion the kind of feel that you should strive for in a clicky switch. Light but sharp tactility and a chunky sound (though that's obviously a matter of opinion). I'll forgive anyone that can't stand a Model F due to the pinging.

As for my own "unpopular opinion" (which probably isn't) Blue Alps, while very nice, are overhyped and overpriced (probably in part due to the fellow mentioned above). Don't get me wrong, they blow any Cherry MX compatible clicky switch out of the water both in feel and sound, but you can get basically all the way there by just click modding basically any other Alps switch that are much more common and accessible. The difference between a click modded black alps and a genuine blue one does not warrant the price increase. I'm guessing this is also true if you linearize them and compare with rare linear Alps switches. Linearizing or click-modding also has the effect of mostly negating the horrible scratchiness of a lot of tactile alps switches you can find today has, by the way.

Oh, and keycap sets that have legends that say something else than what the key actually does is stupid. This includes having symbols such as leaves, shovels or whatever ("novelties").

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/876/233/4c9.jpg)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: kolektador on Wed, 05 July 2023, 15:10:05
The true endgame keyboard is not a perfect keyboard but a keyboard that makes you feel satisfied and at peace while using it  :)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 05 July 2023, 17:23:19
What are some good MX clicky switches in your opinion? I haven't found any. Click bar switches sound horrible. Clickiez could have been good but sound way worse than Alps clicky switches that the design is based on and the feel is nowhere near. Way, way, way too sharp tactility.

Speed Bronze is the best feel and quietest clicky I've found...which is a clickbar.  Not sure what it is about the sound of a clickbar you're particularly annoyed by, but they're all going to be a bit different depending on your own fingers interact with the switch action.  Speed bronze are pretty subtle for me.  My only issue with the clickbar IIRC is that it clicks going both up and down but you don't really notice that at typing speed. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mathisart on Fri, 07 July 2023, 06:02:46
19.05mm is way too much key switch spacing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Genericusername56 on Thu, 13 July 2023, 17:39:34
Quote
And to be clear, MX is virtually trash as tactiles or clickies.  Their reedeming value comes exclusively from the boards and keycaps.
Modern mx clicky switches certainly aren't trash, and mx tactiles could become better if manufacturers start basing switches on the tactile configuration in the zeal clickiez.
What are some good MX clicky switches in your opinion? I haven't found any. Click bar switches sound horrible. Clickiez could have been good but sound way worse than Alps clicky switches that the design is based on and the feel is nowhere near. Way, way, way too sharp tactility.

Like no offense but this is the most basic ***** take I've ever seen, especially since one Dutchman got so popular and people decided to take his words as gospel and not suggestion.
Want to know my unpopular opinion?
There is no best switch. Every switch is designed with different purposes in mind. Alps has a different design philosophy to MX, and those are different from MY, and Mitsumi mini mechs, and every other switch.
It's not even my take! I stole it!

To be fair, the PURPOSE of a keyboard switch is probably pretty much the same for any switch ever made. And while the swearing dutchman surely has swayed people to hating on Cherry MX, he's not exactly wrong either. And I agree with the above poster regarding clicky switches. For tactile switches there are good MX ones, but any modern aluminium, gasket mount, O-ring, bandaidmodded or whatever trendy keyboard is not going to sound as nice as a bulkier vintage keyboard with, for example, Alps tactiles. And one glaring omission in the list of things Cherry MX does better than Alps, they aren't 90% likely to be scratchy and horrible on basically any board that has them because of their sensitivity to dust.

Only such a detail that the click sound and the switch activation are completely synchronized makes typing on CBS so much more enjoyable for me. They're also in my opinion the kind of feel that you should strive for in a clicky switch. Light but sharp tactility and a chunky sound (though that's obviously a matter of opinion). I'll forgive anyone that can't stand a Model F due to the pinging.

As for my own "unpopular opinion" (which probably isn't) Blue Alps, while very nice, are overhyped and overpriced (probably in part due to the fellow mentioned above). Don't get me wrong, they blow any Cherry MX compatible clicky switch out of the water both in feel and sound, but you can get basically all the way there by just click modding basically any other Alps switch that are much more common and accessible. The difference between a click modded black alps and a genuine blue one does not warrant the price increase. I'm guessing this is also true if you linearize them and compare with rare linear Alps switches. Linearizing or click-modding also has the effect of mostly negating the horrible scratchiness of a lot of tactile alps switches you can find today has, by the way.

Oh, and keycap sets that have legends that say something else than what the key actually does is stupid. This includes having symbols such as leaves, shovels or whatever ("novelties").

Show Image
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/876/233/4c9.jpg)

I have a two-yearold with a longer attention span than you. Probably also better taste in keyboards, but we won't know until you both try one. Nice meme though, your meme game is on point. Well done!
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Fri, 14 July 2023, 07:15:24
I have a two-yearold with a longer attention span than you. Probably also better taste in keyboards, but we won't know until you both try one. Nice meme though, your meme game is on point. Well done!

lmao this is a great little copypasta

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clay on Tue, 25 July 2023, 12:23:03
Here's my unpopular opinion. I think 35% and 40% keyboards are absolutely ridiculous. If people want to go that small they might as well go for a 1-key, where pressing the sole key will open an on-screen keyboard menu where you can use the mouse to select which letter/number you want. I know it involves some complicated programming to achieve that but if they want small and inconvenient here is the smallest and most inconvenient keyboard they should get into
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Tue, 25 July 2023, 12:47:23
Here's my unpopular opinion. I think 35% and 40% keyboards are absolutely ridiculous. If people want to go that small they might as well go for a 1-key, where pressing the sole key will open an on-screen keyboard menu where you can use the mouse to select which letter/number you want. I know it involves some complicated programming to achieve that but if they want small and inconvenient here is the smallest and most inconvenient keyboard they should get into

I see 40s as trimming the fat of a keyboard. Like with layers, you can get pretty much the same functionality of a tkl with way less space, however some people like the fat and choose to keep it. I don't really use anything above a 75% because I don't find f keys useful when I can just layer it. It also makes you reach less as it's far less strain on the fingers to press fn and q rather than just pressing the one key weirdly enough.

but of course the best thing about 40s is that you save time on breaking in and lubing switches lol, which makes me want to buy an ergo 40 one day.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Seirin-Blu on Tue, 25 July 2023, 13:45:37
Here's my unpopular opinion. I think 35% and 40% keyboards are absolutely ridiculous. If people want to go that small they might as well go for a 1-key, where pressing the sole key will open an on-screen keyboard menu where you can use the mouse to select which letter/number you want. I know it involves some complicated programming to achieve that but if they want small and inconvenient here is the smallest and most inconvenient keyboard they should get into

This is a running gag at this point, but this is not an unpopular opinion. It’s not correct either, though.

Using a smaller keyboard can be a bit of a challenge and yes, to those who use larger keyboards on a daily basis it seems utterly baffling.

I have a ****load of different boards in different form factors ranging from 35% to 122%. At work I use a FRL 1800 because I never use the f-row but still need numbers. At home I use a 45% (a minivan keyboard using the jetvan style layout) and have a little numpad that I made to go along with it should I need to do some data entry. I pretty recently built a 60% and it feels rather weird to use. It’s a weird in-between and I’d rather just use the 45% or FRL1800 as I’m not reaching farther to type and correct on the 45% and not having to use a un-ergonomic numrow on the FRL1800.

I will agree there definitely is a diminishing return as you go smaller but it’s not at 45%. It’s below that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ItIsWritten on Tue, 25 July 2023, 13:45:55
Here's my unpopular opinion. I think 35% and 40% keyboards are absolutely ridiculous. If people want to go that small they might as well go for a 1-key, where pressing the sole key will open an on-screen keyboard menu where you can use the mouse to select which letter/number you want. I know it involves some complicated programming to achieve that but if they want small and inconvenient here is the smallest and most inconvenient keyboard they should get into

I see 40s as trimming the fat of a keyboard. Like with layers, you can get pretty much the same functionality of a tkl with way less space, however some people like the fat and choose to keep it. I don't really use anything above a 75% because I don't find f keys useful when I can just layer it. It also makes you reach less as it's far less strain on the fingers to press fn and q rather than just pressing the one key weirdly enough.

but of course the best thing about 40s is that you save time on breaking in and lubing switches lol, which makes me want to buy an ergo 40 one day.
I see your point about reaching with touch typing, but you can do layers on a full size as well, so that's not really a justification. What I personally don't like  about small keyboards is that you have to use layers also when your fingers are not in the touch typing position. You may have to use F keys or function keys when you are working in Photoshop e.g., and then a full size or TKL is much handier.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Seirin-Blu on Tue, 25 July 2023, 13:55:59
Here's my unpopular opinion. I think 35% and 40% keyboards are absolutely ridiculous. If people want to go that small they might as well go for a 1-key, where pressing the sole key will open an on-screen keyboard menu where you can use the mouse to select which letter/number you want. I know it involves some complicated programming to achieve that but if they want small and inconvenient here is the smallest and most inconvenient keyboard they should get into

I see 40s as trimming the fat of a keyboard. Like with layers, you can get pretty much the same functionality of a tkl with way less space, however some people like the fat and choose to keep it. I don't really use anything above a 75% because I don't find f keys useful when I can just layer it. It also makes you reach less as it's far less strain on the fingers to press fn and q rather than just pressing the one key weirdly enough.

but of course the best thing about 40s is that you save time on breaking in and lubing switches lol, which makes me want to buy an ergo 40 one day.
I see your point about reaching with touch typing, but you can do layers on a full size as well, so that's not really a justification. What I personally don't like  about small keyboards is that you have to use layers also when your fingers are not in the touch typing position. You may have to use F keys or function keys when you are working in Photoshop e.g., and then a full size or TKL is much handier.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

You don’t have to if you have tap dance setup. Of course it will take some configuring but tapdance allows 4 different actions with a single key (tap, double tap, hold, tap and hold). That can be done while your hands are still in touch typing position. Combos also exist and allow for a bunch more keybinds without needing to move your hands.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ItIsWritten on Tue, 25 July 2023, 14:07:17
Here's my unpopular opinion. I think 35% and 40% keyboards are absolutely ridiculous. If people want to go that small they might as well go for a 1-key, where pressing the sole key will open an on-screen keyboard menu where you can use the mouse to select which letter/number you want. I know it involves some complicated programming to achieve that but if they want small and inconvenient here is the smallest and most inconvenient keyboard they should get into

I see 40s as trimming the fat of a keyboard. Like with layers, you can get pretty much the same functionality of a tkl with way less space, however some people like the fat and choose to keep it. I don't really use anything above a 75% because I don't find f keys useful when I can just layer it. It also makes you reach less as it's far less strain on the fingers to press fn and q rather than just pressing the one key weirdly enough.

but of course the best thing about 40s is that you save time on breaking in and lubing switches lol, which makes me want to buy an ergo 40 one day.
I see your point about reaching with touch typing, but you can do layers on a full size as well, so that's not really a justification. What I personally don't like  about small keyboards is that you have to use layers also when your fingers are not in the touch typing position. You may have to use F keys or function keys when you are working in Photoshop e.g., and then a full size or TKL is much handier.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

You don’t have to if you have tap dance setup. Of course it will take some configuring but tapdance allows 4 different actions with a single key (tap, double tap, hold, tap and hold). That can be done while your hands are still in touch typing position. Combos also exist and allow for a bunch more keybinds without needing to move your hands.
But the point is when not in touch typing position. I rarely use the function keys when touch typing and rarely touch type when doing actions that need the function keys. So the thing is that a smaller board doesn't really solve anything. It saves some space, but my desk is so large that I don't need that.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 26 July 2023, 19:16:56

I throw up a little every time I hear the word "layers" in a keyboard discussion.  but hey, that's just me.  :D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Seirin-Blu on Thu, 27 July 2023, 12:35:01
I mean you use layers whenever you type a capital letter or symbol on the num row, but I guess you can see what’s on the next layer of those so it’s a little different I guess.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Sup on Thu, 27 July 2023, 12:53:32

I throw up a little every time I hear the word "layers" in a keyboard discussion.  but hey, that's just me.  :D

Don't tell bro that he using layers daily on his phone otherwise he will throw up every time he uses it.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 27 July 2023, 16:41:02

I throw up a little every time I hear the word "layers" in a keyboard discussion.  but hey, that's just me.  :D

Don't tell bro that he using layers daily on his phone otherwise he will throw up every time he uses it.
(https://media.printables.com/media/prints/361107/images/3058616_9ea2a164-0f11-45eb-906c-f8baca2d629a/thumbs/inside/640x480/jpg/pain27bl.webp)
Just use layers bro
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 27 July 2023, 17:33:26
Don't tell bro that he using layers daily on his phone otherwise he will throw up every time he uses it.

Not sure what you're referring to, but using cellphones does make me throw up for various other reasons. 

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 27 July 2023, 17:42:58
I mean you use layers whenever you type a capital letter or symbol on the num row, but I guess you can see what’s on the next layer of those so it’s a little different I guess.

Indeed, capitals create a practical limitation due to the number of keys you can reach from home row.  I don't enjoy holding shift to create a capital letter or number-row symbols either, but I don't see an obvious way around that one.  Fortunately most programs (hopefully all) are written so you don't have to key-combination any of the shift-activated characters at the same time.  Mostly thanks to gaming it is however common to have to do things like hold WASD/HJKL/arrows and hit various other keys rapidly.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Thu, 27 July 2023, 17:49:26
//media.printables.com/media/prints/361107/images/3058616_9ea2a164-0f11-45eb-906c-f8baca2d629a/thumbs/inside/640x480/jpg/pain27bl.webp[/img]
Just use layers bro

Don't diss the pain27 it's perfectly usable, and the best australian keyboard ever produced
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 27 July 2023, 18:21:29
//media.printables.com/media/prints/361107/images/3058616_9ea2a164-0f11-45eb-906c-f8baca2d629a/thumbs/inside/640x480/jpg/pain27bl.webp[/img]
Just use layers bro

Don't diss the pain27 it's perfectly usable, and the best australian keyboard ever produced
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/789186261885517827/1134263942085087323/IMG_6300.jpg)
Just use layers bro.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Fri, 28 July 2023, 10:23:04
Show Image
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/789186261885517827/1134263942085087323/IMG_6300.jpg)

Just use layers bro.

Yeah perfectly useable to me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Subdromat on Wed, 16 August 2023, 02:18:02

(https://i.postimg.cc/wM5NyKBq/1692169209137-002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tnTJwMPw)



While looking for an awkward switch with some reputation it has come to Cherry MX green. That RGB variant was hard to find. Not sure but vendors dont offer them anymore (RGB variant), maybe they out of life. Happy got 110 pieces for some clicky project.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 17 August 2023, 09:21:42

(https://i.postimg.cc/wM5NyKBq/1692169209137-002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tnTJwMPw)



While looking for an awkward switch with some reputation it has come to Cherry MX green. That RGB variant was hard to find. Not sure but vendors dont offer them anymore (RGB variant), maybe they out of life. Happy got 110 pieces for some clicky project.

They look like little baggies of droogs. LOL
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Mon, 11 September 2023, 04:05:54
Any layout that reduces the need for stabilizers is superior to layouts that require more stabilizers.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Wed, 13 September 2023, 08:01:24
Any layout that reduces the need for stabilizers is superior to layouts that require more stabilizers.

IMO more comfortable and convenient layout > number of stabilizers lol
weird opinion but definitely fits the thread
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Mandan on Thu, 14 September 2023, 19:39:35
My IBM 84-key board now has 89 keys.  I split both Shifts and Insert in half, and the Big-Ass Enter into an extra 1u and 1.5u, and a 1.25u Enter.  The big 2u "+" key is now an Enter, using the wire-stabilized key from an early Model M board.  That and the space bar are the only stabilized keys on the keyboard.

The 1.25u Enter was a "just because I could" thing; I planned to use a 2u ANSI Model M Enter key.  But the tiny Enter turned out to be not-a-problem.  For that matter, the XT boards had a 1u Enter on a stepped 3u shield.

I've thought about splitting the 2u Enter on the cursor pad, but I'm fond of karate-chopping it, and I probably use it at least as much as the main Enter key.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: matt-taco on Sun, 24 September 2023, 19:03:34
XT or 96 key layouts are 1000% the best layouts. If you get good with it, you won't have to use a mouse a mouse for most tasks, AND you don't have to move your wrist too!!!!

The only downside is getting used to toggling the numlock and the new position for the nav keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ItIsWritten on Mon, 25 September 2023, 03:36:22
XT or 96 key layouts are 1000% the best layouts. If you get good with it, you won't have to use a mouse a mouse for most tasks, AND you don't have to move your wrist too!!!!

The only downside is getting used to toggling the numlock and the new position for the nav keys.
So they can be improved if they have a downside?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: matt-taco on Mon, 25 September 2023, 08:45:30
XT or 96 key layouts are 1000% the best layouts. If you get good with it, you won't have to use a mouse a mouse for most tasks, AND you don't have to move your wrist too!!!!

The only downside is getting used to toggling the numlock and the new position for the nav keys.
So they can be improved if they have a downside?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

What I meant by downside, was, a steep learning curve. Once you get over it, it is not a problem
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TomahawkLabs on Thu, 05 October 2023, 08:35:18
My unpopular opinion: Soldered switch PCBs are superior to hot swap. Hot swap is great for if you want to try out new switches or are into modding switches, but soldering provides additional mechanical fastening allowing for an easier time removing keycaps and doing general cleaning.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Thu, 05 October 2023, 08:37:19
My unpopular opinion: Soldered switch PCBs are superior to hot swap. Hot swap is great for if you want to try out new switches or are into modding switches, but soldering provides additional mechanical fastening allowing for an easier time removing keycaps and doing general cleaning.

How does it make it easier to clean?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Thu, 05 October 2023, 09:50:43
My unpopular opinion: Soldered switch PCBs are superior to hot swap. Hot swap is great for if you want to try out new switches or are into modding switches, but soldering provides additional mechanical fastening allowing for an easier time removing keycaps and doing general cleaning.

Agree with this, It also makes boards sound better (I'm not 100% sure why, but I think it has to do with switches having gaps in between the sockets which sound can go through, rather than soldering which doesn't have those gaps)

Plus it's slightly cheaper and fun to do, for any custom I don't know why you wouldn't but that's just me. You probably should have a hotswap board for modding switches as you said anyway.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TomahawkLabs on Thu, 05 October 2023, 14:43:00
My unpopular opinion: Soldered switch PCBs are superior to hot swap. Hot swap is great for if you want to try out new switches or are into modding switches, but soldering provides additional mechanical fastening allowing for an easier time removing keycaps and doing general cleaning.

How does it make it easier to clean?

I claim it is easier to clean because I can quickly take off the keycaps as the switches stay in the plate and PCB because it is mechanically fastened. On nearly every hot swap keyboard I have used or tried some of the switches will release from the plate before the keycap is pulled off. Spending the extra time removing the cap from the loose switch and putting the switch back adds extra work.

I do think that every enthusiast who is into modding/trying new things should have a hot swap board as a test bed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Thu, 05 October 2023, 19:49:31
My unpopular opinion: Soldered switch PCBs are superior to hot swap. Hot swap is great for if you want to try out new switches or are into modding switches, but soldering provides additional mechanical fastening allowing for an easier time removing keycaps and doing general cleaning.

Agree with this, It also makes boards sound better (I'm not 100% sure why, but I think it has to do with switches having gaps in between the sockets which sound can go through, rather than soldering which doesn't have those gaps)

Plus it's slightly cheaper and fun to do, for any custom I don't know why you wouldn't but that's just me. You probably should have a hotswap board for modding switches as you said anyway.

I agree with this for the most part as well. Although, hotswap PCBs have come a long way from the "you'll get one fixed layout & like it days". Coupled with a well made plate the switches will stay put so I'm way more likely to get hotswap PCB with a custom nowadays. If a board turns out to be special to me in some way then I'll for sure make a soldered build for it. Overall I prefer soldered, but hotswap has grown on me a little after a couple good experiences with it finally.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 06 October 2023, 04:29:23
*shrug*  I find hot swap keyboards convenient for cracking one out of the box, throwing 60-100 favorite switches and new keycaps on, and getting instant satisfaction.  (no, I didn't scare up the energy to lube anything except the stabilizers)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LogLab on Tue, 10 October 2023, 23:07:00
60% keyboards aren't practical, even with the programmable layers. I liken it to people who build their linux distros "from the ground up". They're just senselessly creating a rabbit hole of unnecessary work.

For me I feel it's way more comfortable to use a layer I activate with my thumb to have the arrow keys right under my homerow than to have to do the movement of my hand from the homerow down to the bottom and back to the homerow, it gets tiring esp with arthritis. I use 42 keys tho as a daily driver so thats a whole nother discussion LOL

Edit: Just realized I replied to a 9 year old comment lmfao. Point still stands thooooo
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ItIsWritten on Wed, 11 October 2023, 01:55:53
60% keyboards aren't practical, even with the programmable layers. I liken it to people who build their linux distros "from the ground up". They're just senselessly creating a rabbit hole of unnecessary work.

For me I feel it's way more comfortable to use a layer I activate with my thumb to have the arrow keys right under my homerow than to have to do the movement of my hand from the homerow down to the bottom and back to the homerow, it gets tiring esp with arthritis. I use 42 keys tho as a daily driver so thats a whole nother discussion LOL

Edit: Just realized I replied to a 9 year old comment lmfao. Point still stands thooooo
The thing is though that that would work on larger size keyboards as well. So you don't need a smaller keyboard to do that. But it's only practical if you're touch typing. If your hands are AFK and you quickly need to find a specific button all the smaller sizes make that harder.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: clay on Sun, 12 November 2023, 13:20:54

I throw up a little every time I hear the word "layers" in a keyboard discussion.  but hey, that's just me.  :D

Don't tell bro that he using layers daily on his phone otherwise he will throw up every time he uses it.
Show Image
(https://media.printables.com/media/prints/361107/images/3058616_9ea2a164-0f11-45eb-906c-f8baca2d629a/thumbs/inside/640x480/jpg/pain27bl.webp)

Just use layers bro

Imagine a 1-key keyboard, just like a switch and keycap keychain just that it functions as a real keyboard. Everything is a layer. Press the single key and an on screen menu shall pop out. Move your mouse to select the letter/number/symbol you want. Because hey, we like smaller keyboards since our 50 inch monitor has taken all the space on our airplane tray table.

P.S. jokes aside I hope I didnt offend anyone
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: ItIsWritten on Mon, 13 November 2023, 04:48:05

I throw up a little every time I hear the word "layers" in a keyboard discussion.  but hey, that's just me.  :D

Don't tell bro that he using layers daily on his phone otherwise he will throw up every time he uses it.
Show Image
(https://media.printables.com/media/prints/361107/images/3058616_9ea2a164-0f11-45eb-906c-f8baca2d629a/thumbs/inside/640x480/jpg/pain27bl.webp)

Just use layers bro

Imagine a 1-key keyboard, just like a switch and keycap keychain just that it functions as a real keyboard. Everything is a layer. Press the single key and an on screen menu shall pop out. Move your mouse to select the letter/number/symbol you want. Because hey, we like smaller keyboards since our 50 inch monitor has taken all the space on our airplane tray table.

P.S. jokes aside I hope I didnt offend anyone
Just use a hall effect switch with 200 levels...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Mon, 13 November 2023, 05:57:25
Quote
Just use a hall effect switch with 200 levels...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

This is very pleasing to me. It's like one of those bad UI battles. Can we send one of these to  Chryros for a Waning video?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wjrii on Mon, 13 November 2023, 08:46:33
Quote
Just use a hall effect switch with 200 levels...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

This is very pleasing to me. It's like one of those bad UI battles. Can we send one of these to  Chryros for a Waning video?

See, the approach is all wrong here.  We've already made the move to the onscreen, so it's time for AESTHETICS.  I suggest a zero-key model with a classic 104-key footprint (https://www.propsamerica.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DESKTOPS000).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Mon, 13 November 2023, 21:59:55
See, the approach is all wrong here.  We've already made the move to the onscreen, so it's time for AESTHETICS.  I suggest a zero-key model with a classic 104-key footprint (https://www.propsamerica.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DESKTOPS000).

we need fake resin to accompany that.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Exquite on Wed, 15 November 2023, 20:08:30
1. Just about every keycap set designed on pimpmykeyboard is ugly. When I see pictures of these keycaps on someones keyboards looks even worse.

2. SA keyset is horrible to type on and looks horrible.

3. I think model M and any other so called "vintage" keyboard is stupid.

4. If you think 60% keyboards are not practical well 40% are even worse. They seem like a major handicap.

5. I hate gamer looking or branded keyboards (razer, corsair, logitech, ect.)
I agree keysets designed by pimp is ugly for many people but SA does have many excellent sets such as SA SONG, ESPRESSO, and VIlEBLOOM. As someone started with cherry profile, SA looks quite weird initially. However, later on, I realized some colorways do fit the big fat legend and tall profile. The typing feel of SA SP also enhances any switches. Making tactile more tactile, linear more linear. The feel is also more smooth than gmk.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: funkmon on Wed, 15 November 2023, 21:27:55
That quote is from...a long time ago.

But also...how the heck does he think Model M is stupid?! appleonama get back in here and explain yourself.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Thu, 16 November 2023, 00:49:39

SA is a satisfying manly man's door-slamming solid gemstone keycap profile.  Feels so good. 

Cherry is like typing on cornflakes, and tastes worse. 

Aaaaaand, if you didn't learn to type on a Selectric II your opinion is wimpy.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Thu, 16 November 2023, 07:49:52
1 and 2 are both true, but that the 3rd one is crazy... not everyone was around in the mesozoic.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Exquite on Thu, 16 November 2023, 11:38:46
1. DSA is terrible. I hate using it, and won't buy from any group buys with DSA profile.

2. SA profile (sculptured, not uniform) is fun! They are my second favorite, after Cherry Corp or GMK thick ABS.

3. PBT is all hype. I prefer thick ABS by a wide margin. I can use PBT, of course, but I prefer thick ABS. Much, much prefer double shot ABS over dyesub PBT.

4. ErgoClears are just okay, but stock clears are better.
SA SP keycaps are really thick. I love that rigid feeling when typing.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wjrii on Fri, 17 November 2023, 13:13:32
Some people in the hobby are trying desperately to recreate the typing experience of a membrane board; they just don't realize it.  The first Youtuber to pull together a GB for an aluminum case and Cherry-stem sliders on a "unified switch PCB with silent Topre-esque elastopolymer light linear actuators with solder-free one-shot swapping" is gonna make bank.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Fri, 17 November 2023, 16:02:31
That's just insane in the membrane...   ;)
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Greywolf on Mon, 20 November 2023, 16:17:21
I just want to know why it is so damnably hard to find a keyboard which is/has
• mechanical switches
• TKL form factor
• UNIX key layout (i.e. ~` and |\ where Backspace always is these days, Backspace over the Return key, Control left of A, and Esc at the corner bordering TAB and !1)

I do not understand why this is not an appealing/desired layout, and it's really frustrating not to be able to find one.  I mean, I suppose I could try to make one...

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Tue, 21 November 2023, 06:40:12
I just want to know why it is so damnably hard to find a keyboard which is/has
• mechanical switches
• TKL form factor
• UNIX key layout (i.e. ~` and |\ where Backspace always is these days, Backspace over the Return key, Control left of A, and Esc at the corner bordering TAB and !1)

I do not understand why this is not an appealing/desired layout, and it's really frustrating not to be able to find one.  I mean, I suppose I could try to make one...
most unix ppl just use hhkb or remap
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Wed, 22 November 2023, 23:24:07
I just want to know why it is so damnably hard to find a keyboard which is/has
• mechanical switches
• TKL form factor
• UNIX key layout (i.e. ~` and |\ where Backspace always is these days, Backspace over the Return key, Control left of A, and Esc at the corner bordering TAB and !1)

I do not understand why this is not an appealing/desired layout, and it's really frustrating not to be able to find one.  I mean, I suppose I could try to make one...

It's because regular ansi is more popular, and a lot of people find that split backspace looks weird on a tkl.

Most solderable tkl pcbs have the option for it so you could always solder the layout.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: transeurasian on Sat, 23 December 2023, 04:35:50
I got 2 right hands.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: zlobin356 on Sat, 23 December 2023, 15:17:04
65 and 75 are senseless

HHKB (keyboard) is overrated (quality of case, inconsistency)

salvation is bad keyboard due usb cutout and qc

meletrix is bad budget option

vintage blacks are overrated
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: transeurasian on Sun, 24 December 2023, 05:50:31
65 and 75 are senseless

HHKB (keyboard) is overrated (quality of case, inconsistency)

salvation is bad keyboard due usb cutout and qc

meletrix is bad budget option

vintage blacks are overrated

HHKB is overrated absolutely  :(
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: wjrii on Sun, 24 December 2023, 09:18:47

HHKB is overrated absolutely  :(

Now, I've never tried one, so maybe I'm completely off base, but I've always kind of struggled to figure out how a rubber dome with early tactility that makes it hard not to bottom out is fundamentally different from a sheet of rubber domes that actuate upon bottoming out.  But then, I'm Team Clicky, so maybe my perspective is niche within niche.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VimLover on Sun, 24 December 2023, 11:18:14
65 and 75 are senseless

HHKB (keyboard) is overrated (quality of case, inconsistency)

salvation is bad keyboard due usb cutout and qc

meletrix is bad budget option

vintage blacks are overrated

HHKB quality is amazing, and as a corollary unpopular opinion, HHKB is a leader in innovation with studio. So many 500+ dollar custom jobs out there that are just aluminum squares with the same bland layouts, HHKB actually out here trying new stuff and push the envelope.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: b21 on Fri, 29 December 2023, 19:51:28
If you lube your switches with 205g0, you are muting and removing their sound profile, different linears will sound the same after. 105 on the railing is all that's needed.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Sat, 30 December 2023, 01:09:10
HHKB (keyboard) is overrated (quality of case, inconsistency)
I've tried a hhkb and it's pretty good, I don't see what you mean by inconsistency, and yeah it's a plastic case but it's pretty durable.

vintage blacks are overrated
Vintage blacks aren't overrated but there are misconceptions about why they are so good. Good vintage blacks are good because they are broken in a lot from years of use, there are different molds and they are the first tooling but the break in is the biggest factor in why they are so smooth. That's why NOS vintage blacks are not worth your money, they are basically just slightly better hyperglides. Although a lot of this is based on batch variance.

If you lube your switches with 205g0, you are muting and removing their sound profile, different linears will sound the same after. 105 on the railing is all that's needed.

Yeah 205 makes switches so sluggish, I have lubed 2 batches of switches with 205 and one is alright feeling and sounding (a batch of tangerines) and my batch of full milky switches is so sluggish, even the best switches in that batch are still kinda sluggish (I'm pretty bad at lubing with 205 so it might be a skill issue), they also sounded too muted as well.

3204 or dry based lubes like ro59 or ptfe powder are much better for switches.



Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rob27shred on Sat, 30 December 2023, 07:55:19
If you lube your switches with 205g0, you are muting and removing their sound profile, different linears will sound the same after. 105 on the railing is all that's needed.

Sounds like you're overlubing with 205g0 TBH. That is the lube I use exclusively & have been doing so with all my linears for quite a few years now. They all still retain their sound differences IME, they are just a bit quieter than they are stock when using 205g0.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: argentstonecutter on Mon, 01 January 2024, 16:02:57
1. 68 keys aren't enough. 84 keys are too many. I need all of DEL/HOME/PGUP/PGDN/END as separate keys, but the only key I use in the FK row is escape.

2. Outemu makes some damned good switches, and Gateron are boring.

3. A keycap set that only has "WIN" or a Microsoft logo on the OS key should be a war crime.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: argentstonecutter on Mon, 01 January 2024, 16:09:23
1. I cannot stand 60% boards either, I don't think they look attractive what so ever and although using a HHKB was an enjoyable experience, I couldn't ever use it as my daily driver.
My reaction to 60% boards is to get flashbacks to 1980 and the adm3a and bit-encoded key layout and using Shift-RUB and Control-HJKL and growing wrist pain from the lousy mechanism. When the HHKB came out I was kind of excited and bought one sight unseen. It was a mistake.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: argentstonecutter on Mon, 01 January 2024, 16:14:41
6. "They don't make them like they used to." The standard build quality on vintage keyboards is better than 95% of the crap being mass produced today.
I worked for Honeywell in 1978 and we had the BEST keyboards. I really miss discrete Microswitch keys.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: argentstonecutter on Mon, 01 January 2024, 20:26:29
This may be absolute heresy on a board like this, but I kinda like rubber domes more than mechanical switches. Idk, but I find I type faster on them. Maybe because I'm used to MX reds which are too light for me and I tend to mis-hit keys.
Dell L100 is a nice keyboard. But my wrist is hurting a lot less since I got a mechanical with Silent Limes.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Tue, 02 January 2024, 05:19:37
wow, an old furry
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Tue, 02 January 2024, 06:39:41
65 and 75 are senseless

HHKB (keyboard) is overrated (quality of case, inconsistency)

salvation is bad keyboard due usb cutout and qc

meletrix is bad budget option

vintage blacks are overrated

why is 65 and 75 senseless?

hhkb underrated

idk what salvation or meletrix are ngl

vintage blacks are overrated indeed
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Tue, 02 January 2024, 06:42:33
6. "They don't make them like they used to." The standard build quality on vintage keyboards is better than 95% of the crap being mass produced today.
I worked for Honeywell in 1978 and we had the BEST keyboards. I really miss discrete Microswitch keys.

awesome. i have 2 honeywell keyboards but both are hall effect
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: argentstonecutter on Wed, 03 January 2024, 10:53:24
awesome. i have 2 honeywell keyboards but both are hall effect
Yeh, those were the ones. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Micro_Switch_SW_Series
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: LavenderB on Fri, 05 January 2024, 03:48:50
1. 68 keys aren't enough. 84 keys are too many. I need all of DEL/HOME/PGUP/PGDN/END as separate keys, but the only key I use in the FK row is escape.
So an FRL TKL layout? Those have been growing in popularity lately.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: argentstonecutter on Fri, 05 January 2024, 06:37:43
FRL TKL doesn't give you a place for both ESC and "`~". An XT column on the left would do that (65XT). Or 71 key, with the "`~" on the right like this...
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Fri, 05 January 2024, 06:53:26
FRL TKL doesn't give you a place for both ESC and "`~". An XT column on the left would do that. Or 71 key, with the "`~" on the right like this...

I mean it kinda does, you can split the backspace and get both keys (but if you prefer regular backspace then you have to use layers then)

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: argentstonecutter on Fri, 05 January 2024, 08:13:04
65% with a split backspace and split left shift would work as well, there's lots of options once you start splitting keys, but then it's not 68 keys any more. And boards with split keys are even harder to find.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: VaporKeebs on Sun, 07 January 2024, 19:56:36
Unpopular for the general public... split backspace should be the norm.

We dont need the backslash to be that big. And it frees up space for the tilde and the backslash.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Sun, 07 January 2024, 23:48:18
Unpopular for the general public... split backspace should be the norm.

We dont need the backslash to be that big. And it frees up space for the tilde and the backslash.

I'd agree with that, actually why is regular backspace the norm, that would be interesting to know if there is a reason
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Mon, 08 January 2024, 02:11:29

If there's a key that needs splitting it's the waste-of-space spacebar.  Backspace should be below the "v" key, space should be below the "n" key.  Both about 2u. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Prince Valiant on Mon, 08 January 2024, 08:12:00

If there's a key that needs splitting it's the waste-of-space spacebar.  Backspace should be below the "v" key, space should be below the "n" key.  Both about 2u.
Seems to be the norm for non-standard splits like Kinesis Advantage and Ergodox where they have it 2U vertical plus additional keys in a cluster. I tend to favor my right more than my left for space duty but, on a leading space I will sometimes use the left. I might remap mine and see how frequently I end up backspacing characters :).
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Prince Valiant on Mon, 08 January 2024, 08:59:40
Unpopular for the general public... split backspace should be the norm.

We dont need the backslash to be that big. And it frees up space for the tilde and the backslash.

I'd agree with that, actually why is regular backspace the norm, that would be interesting to know if there is a reason
Easier to identify and slap at it with a pinky is my guess.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Rhienfo on Mon, 08 January 2024, 20:22:57

If there's a key that needs splitting it's the waste-of-space spacebar.  Backspace should be below the "v" key, space should be below the "n" key.  Both about 2u.

I mean you are probably right, but idk I like having a big spacebar unless I'm on an ergo board/anything below a 60%, just feels and sounds good
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Tue, 09 January 2024, 02:56:14
I'm so happy there is always a spacebar under my left thumb as the right one is non-operational
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Tue, 09 January 2024, 06:40:13
using your thumb to hit space?!!??  :eek:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 09 January 2024, 07:30:00

using your thumb to hit space?


Of course! Always.
Do you send a finger down there to make the hit?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Tue, 09 January 2024, 07:44:39

using your thumb to hit space?


Of course! Always.
Do you send a finger down there to make the hit?

yes...  :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Prince Valiant on Tue, 09 January 2024, 08:33:09

using your thumb to hit space?


Of course! Always.
Do you send a finger down there to make the hit?

yes...  :-X
Maybe give the thumb a try sometime :cool:.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Tue, 09 January 2024, 09:09:08

using your thumb to hit space?


Of course! Always.
Do you send a finger down there to make the hit?

yes...  :-X
Maybe give the thumb a try sometime :cool:.

nah too much pointless effort
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: tricheboars on Tue, 09 January 2024, 11:06:57
completely stock HHKB hybrid (not silenced) is the best keyboard in the world. no lubing needed. no type-s.  bliss
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Tue, 09 January 2024, 17:15:05
using your thumb to hit space?!!??  :eek:
Both thumbs. That's how touch typing is supposed to work. For a person with 10 functional fingers that is.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Wed, 10 January 2024, 06:40:38
using your thumb to hit space?!!??  :eek:
Both thumbs. That's how touch typing is supposed to work. For a person with 10 functional fingers that is.

just too much for me to re-learn typing with minimal returns
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 10 January 2024, 06:51:31

to re-learn typing


Honestly, it is hard for me to imagine a style of "typing" that does not utilize the the thumbs on the space bar.

What do they do? Or are they simply sidelined?
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Wed, 10 January 2024, 08:06:50

to re-learn typing


Honestly, it is hard for me to imagine a style of "typing" that does not utilize the the thumbs on the space bar.

What do they do? Or are they simply sidelined?

nothing lol they just chill unless im playing a game then my left thumb is jump like everyone else
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 10 January 2024, 16:31:21

  I hope they're teaching typing in school at a younger age these days so kids don't stick to improvised bad habits.  It's painful to watch my dad do the hunt-and-peck thing his entire life because they didn't teach typing to boys in the era he was in school. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TomahawkLabs on Wed, 10 January 2024, 16:35:18

to re-learn typing


Honestly, it is hard for me to imagine a style of "typing" that does not utilize the the thumbs on the space bar.

What do they do? Or are they simply sidelined?

nothing lol they just chill unless im playing a game then my left thumb is jump like everyone else

This hurts my brain. I don't use any other digit on my spacebar than my thumbs.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Wed, 10 January 2024, 16:46:36

This hurts my brain. I don't use any other digit on my spacebar than my thumbs.

I'm guessing it starts with people who have to look at the keys pulling their hands back to see them.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Thu, 11 January 2024, 08:09:30

  I hope they're teaching typing in school at a younger age these days so kids don't stick to improvised bad habits.  It's painful to watch my dad do the hunt-and-peck thing his entire life because they didn't teach typing to boys in the era he was in school.

they are. the first typing class i can remember was probably around 5th or 6th grade but i had been typing since the age of 2 so it was still late for me
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Fri, 12 January 2024, 18:08:23
Ah, typing classes!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Souffle on Sat, 13 January 2024, 05:10:28

  I hope they're teaching typing in school at a younger age these days so kids don't stick to improvised bad habits.  It's painful to watch my dad do the hunt-and-peck thing his entire life because they didn't teach typing to boys in the era he was in school.

I agree with this. We were never taught how to type correctly at school. I hit around 120 WPM average, which is fine, but I'm not typing correctly. However, complete computer illiteracy is a bigger problem that seems to be creeping up. Kids are turning 12 and still don't know how to create a folder on Windows. I don't work in the education sector, but some friends do. Most kids are alright with it, but the only exposure for some seems to be phones, tablets and consoles. So it's not their fault, but it's pretty alarming that they are not being exposed to such vital equipment. I wonder what's going on at the elementary/primary level for that to happen.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Sat, 13 January 2024, 15:22:47

Keyboarding class was my worst grades in high school.  I got a C- or maybe even a D+.  I was only good at subjects where "winging it" could succeed, and keyboarding took practice LOL.  But like most of school keyboarding class created an ergonomic foundation I was able to build on later when I started working on the computer in undergrad.  (It's far more about ergonomics and efficiency than "WPM")


Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Souffle on Sat, 13 January 2024, 16:10:56

Keyboarding class was my worst grades in high school.  I got a C- or maybe even a D+.  I was only good at subjects where "winging it" could succeed, and keyboarding took practice LOL.  But like most of school keyboarding class created an ergonomic foundation I was able to build on later when I started working on the computer in undergrad.  (It's far more about ergonomics and efficiency than "WPM")
We were never taught proper keyboard skills. Most of our lessons were on how to use Windows shortcuts rather than proper typing. Ergonomics were never mentioned for us.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Sat, 13 January 2024, 17:11:33
We were never taught proper keyboard skills. Most of our lessons were on how to use Windows shortcuts rather than proper typing. Ergonomics were never mentioned for us.

It was an elective class for us, so maybe 20% of our school took Keyboarding class.  Which was entirely on typewriters BTW - hammers hitting ink ribbon onto manually fed sheets of paper - whack whack zhhht DING!  :D  Even fewer students took the Programming elective, but the glorious modern Apple ][e computers were so expensive not everyone could get into Programming class. 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: marksen on Sun, 14 January 2024, 06:38:07
Emacs uses control-FBPN for cursor movement, because Richard Stallman hates you.

Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: iri on Sun, 14 January 2024, 08:39:14
  • Every Emacser makes their own bindings anyway.
For the movement? I use the default ones.
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: bkrownd on Mon, 15 January 2024, 01:36:45

I'm happy to say that EMACS was banned from our machines long ago for being a resource hog.  VIM forever! 
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: Demonseed Elite on Mon, 15 January 2024, 17:18:12
Bah... Nano FTW.   ;D
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Tue, 16 January 2024, 06:38:54
Ah, typing classes!

(Attachment Link)

we used a thing called Type to Learn or something like that with weird little cartoon people. i think you're older than I am lol

Edit: nvm apparently Type to Learn is over 30 years old and its just had multiple versions
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Tue, 16 January 2024, 06:40:43

Keyboarding class was my worst grades in high school.  I got a C- or maybe even a D+.  I was only good at subjects where "winging it" could succeed, and keyboarding took practice LOL.  But like most of school keyboarding class created an ergonomic foundation I was able to build on later when I started working on the computer in undergrad.  (It's far more about ergonomics and efficiency than "WPM")

I didn't have it in hs but in middle school it was one of my worst (though it didn't matter cuz middle school grades barely affected anything) because didn't do anything and our teacher barely cared. we all just played Minecraft together or other games
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TWX on Thu, 15 February 2024, 20:17:22
Bah... Nano FTW.   ;D

Now listen here, n00b...   ;D

In all seriousness I used pico/nano for 20 years before I needed to do massive amounts of regular expression parsing, typically as a result of taking network device mgmt console output and working with it.  I planned a network switch lifecycle project spending around $10,000,000 across more than 700 telecom closets where I had to gather information on total port usage, PoE usage, PoE type, etc, where the existing switching topology had been haphazardly upgraded or supplemented.

vi made it very easy to take the captures that my scripts collected, process those into CSVs, and import them into spreadsheets in a way that let me save probably $3,000,000 compared to if we had done what a consultant recommended, which would have been replacing like with like without consideration for usage, density existing port count, etc.  I could never have done that regular expression work in pico/nano.

Admittedly I've never used EMACS, but every time I heard about this-or-that feature added to it, it reminded me of 4DOS and the integration of a bunch of crap into something that didn't need it.  I'd heard people say of EMACS, "It's a great operating system, but a ****ty editor."
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: mohawk1367 on Fri, 16 February 2024, 06:43:58

Keyboarding class was my worst grades in high school.  I got a C- or maybe even a D+.  I was only good at subjects where "winging it" could succeed, and keyboarding took practice LOL.  But like most of school keyboarding class created an ergonomic foundation I was able to build on later when I started working on the computer in undergrad.  (It's far more about ergonomics and efficiency than "WPM")

I didn't have it in hs but in middle school it was one of my worst (though it didn't matter cuz middle school grades barely affected anything) because didn't do anything and our teacher barely cared. we all just played Minecraft together or other games
i was still typing over 120 wpm at the time though since i had been learning years earlier on my own (but i do type "improperly")
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: TimeRelapse on Tue, 20 February 2024, 23:11:12
Kohaku is a mid board, pretty weight but that's about it to me... I also don't enjoy 65% layouts so I guess that's probably part of the cause as well
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: sarahn27 on Tue, 12 March 2024, 14:37:27
Favorite layout is a 96%  :-X
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 20 March 2024, 17:15:51
Oh god. We're talking about Emacs again. As is my sworn duty, I have to fan this flame. Emacs with Vim bindings (evil mode) is the only correct answer here :disappear:
Title: Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
Post by: hvontres on Fri, 22 March 2024, 01:31:52
Favorite layout is a 96%  :-X

I find the extra 26% on my boston really make a 96% layout shine :)