Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[azhdar]

oh, i know its super unpopular, but i like the look of the hhkb metal case that on md right now.

you're kind of the master of unpopular opinions anyway :>

[jonathanyu]

oh, i know its super unpopular, but i like the look of the hhkb metal case that on md right now.

you're kind of the master of unpopular opinions anyway :>

  yeah, i know

[HoffmanMyster]

The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.

I mean only some of them are, and that bothers me more personally. I think Binge's caps are freaking amazing, and I'm not demeaning his in any way, but there are other artisan makers who are making equally cool things that don't really get the God status that Binge does. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't deserve it, as I said, his work is amazing.

I've always thought Binge was under-appreciated.  The dude basically (literally) wrote the book on casting at home, and so many have learned from him.  Maybe I'm just not seeing all the comments you're referring to though. 

[trenzafeeds]

I've always thought Binge was under-appreciated.  The dude basically (literally) wrote the book on casting at home, and so many have learned from him.  Maybe I'm just not seeing all the comments you're referring to though. 

I know he's done a lot, maybe he's not the best comparison. I'm just saying there's some people who I feel do amazing work that are relatively under-appreciated compared to kind of the standard names in artisan market like clacks, bros, and binge caps. I'm by no means saying he's over appreciated.

[nubbinator]

The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.

I mean only some of them are, and that bothers me more personally. I think Binge's caps are freaking amazing, and I'm not demeaning his in any way, but there are other artisan makers who are making equally cool things that don't really get the God status that Binge does. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't deserve it, as I said, his work is amazing.

I've always thought Binge was under-appreciated.  The dude basically (literally) wrote the book on casting at home, and so many have learned from him.  Maybe I'm just not seeing all the comments you're referring to though. 

Ok, I'm going to be pedantic only because I feel overlooked and there's history that came before me and inspired me to try and share my methods and how to cast at home.

Ishtob is the first one that I know of that addressed casting at home.  AFAIK, after that it was Matt3o who did a little something.

After both of those, I did my first guide.  I started to keep track of other experiments and publicly discussed and shared my methods.  After that, Binge wrote up his guide.

[trenzafeeds]

The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.

I mean only some of them are, and that bothers me more personally. I think Binge's caps are freaking amazing, and I'm not demeaning his in any way, but there are other artisan makers who are making equally cool things that don't really get the God status that Binge does. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't deserve it, as I said, his work is amazing.

I've always thought Binge was under-appreciated.  The dude basically (literally) wrote the book on casting at home, and so many have learned from him.  Maybe I'm just not seeing all the comments you're referring to though. 

Ok, I'm going to be pedantic only because I feel overlooked and there's history that came before me and inspired me to try and share my methods and how to cast at home.

Ishtob is the first one that I know of that addressed casting at home.  AFAIK, after that it was Matt3o who did a little something.

After both of those, I did my first guide.  I started to keep track of other experiments and publicly discussed and shared my methods.  After that, Binge wrote up his guide.

Interesting, I would put you on my list of under-appreciated artisan cap makers, but not for the same reasons. I wasn't really talking about the trails people have blazed, more about their work, but this is also an interesting perspective.

[nubbinator]

I have no problem with being overlooked.  It's always been about having fun for me and sharing my projects with others.  I was just wanting roots to be respected.  I always try to give credit to those who came before me that I drew on.  Sometimes I forget, but it's always nice to recognize people.

[trenzafeeds]

I have no problem with being overlooked.

And for the rest of us it means less competition on your sales 

[E3E]

In everything I do when it comes to modding my boards or customizing things, it's always for fun and aesthetics, trying to make something nice that can reflect my individuality, I guess. I like unique things, even if it's just something silly and minor. I like sculpting and such and have been wanting a vacuum pot for a while even before being in the keyboard scene, but it's never been enough of a priority to shell out for them. I'd definitely start by making sculpted caps I've always wanted to see, and right now, they'd probably all be Alps-based, haha.

[Zombii]

This is probably an unpopular opinion that has been posted before, but I just honestly don't understand the hype behind Topre. After using them for a month, I had to switch back to my Poker. They just felt too springy and a little bit mushy to me.

[jonathanyu]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

[trenzafeeds]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

I haven't received mine yet, so I have no judgement, but I'm glad we're past the honeymoon period. I'm sure the switches will be amazing for me, but it's good to have healthy, constructive criticisms as well.

[nubbinator]

This is probably an unpopular opinion that has been posted before, but I just honestly don't understand the hype behind Topre. After using them for a month, I had to switch back to my Poker. They just felt too springy and a little bit mushy to me.

Different strokes for different folks.  I hate Realforce boards, the FC660C,  and the Novatouch, but love my HHKB.  I think Model Ms are a joke and feel like crap, but love Model Fs.  I'd rather use a membrane board than anything with MX Blues.  I think "vintage" Blacks are all placebo effect and hype but that there's a noticeable positive difference between new and "vintage" Browns and Blues and so on.

[CPTBadAss]

there are WAY too much artisan keycaps on gh

But where would we be without them? They cause so much drama and commotion!

More discussion on keyboard. Just look at the classfield section and the what did you get in the mail today thread..... they are literally full of artisan keycaps. I remeber two or three years ago when I read posts on gh, there was much more discussion on keyboard.

I agree, there's too much focus on novelty caps.

And I never see you posting in Making Stuff Together johnathanyu. Easily the best forum on Geekhack which talks about keyboards all the time. I've often thought how great it would be if only that sub-forum and Keyboards existed. Maybe media too. Classifieds and GBs could get nuked. I'm ok with that.

[hwood34]

Too many people try to make artisan caps that have little to no artistic ability whatsoever. Also, if you're doing it for the first time, don't sell the ****ty things for like $10.

[dr_habu]

I hate backlit keyboards. They serve absolutely no practical purpose, look terrible, and their glow in my peripheral vision keeps distracting me from what's on the screen in front of me.

Colourful keycaps. Dolch colour scheme is probably as wild as I'd go.

People think they want something, but they have no idea. You have to tell someone what they need, not ask them what they want.

Henry Ford once said: "If I asked people what they want they'd just tell me that they wanted faster horses."

[dutC4]

 

[digi]

I hate Realforce boards

Reported.

[tararais]

Too many people try to make artisan caps that have little to no artistic ability whatsoever. Also, if you're doing it for the first time, don't sell the ****ty things for like $10.

 
Ah, when I see some oddly-shaped hunk of plastic selling for $20+ on reddit.. sad days.

[ika]

I tested a Novatouch today and I think with thicker caps it would feel better than a Realforce.

[Joey Quinn]

I tested a Novatouch today and I think with thicker caps it would feel better than a Realforce.

Is this unpopular? I thought the novatouch I tried was weirdly tactile for a 45g and loved it. If I liked TKLs and they made a 55g I'd probably buy one.

[Joey Quinn]

Too many people try to make artisan caps that have little to no artistic ability whatsoever. Also, if you're doing it for the first time, don't sell the ****ty things for like $10.

 
Ah, when I see some oddly-shaped hunk of plastic selling for $20+ on reddit.. sad days.

Double post but whatever.

This idea perfectly shows how desperate reddit is for artisans. They'll buy any artisan regardless of design or quality.

[beehatch]

Too many people try to make artisan caps that have little to no artistic ability whatsoever. Also, if you're doing it for the first time, don't sell the ****ty things for like $10.

I can't believe it, but I'm actually in agreement with you.

[asgeirtj]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

[jonathanyu]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

[ideus]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

[jonathanyu]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

Cherry mx?

[ideus]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

Cherry mx?

This has been extensively discussed already, MX patent is expired, so now we have similar switches made by some manufacturers. A fake is something that claims to be another thing, nobody has said that a Gateron is the same than an MX; furthermore, this particular combination is not made by Cherry, meaning the spring and stem.

[jonathanyu]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

Cherry mx?

This has been extensively discussed already, MX patent is expired, so now we have similar switches made by some manufacturers. A fake is something that claims to be another thing, nobody has said that a Gateron is the same than an MX; furthermore, this particular combination is not made by Cherry, meaning the spring and stem.

I am sorry, I should not use the word fake, I don't know what word should I use since english is not my native language. To me, the housing, the stem all look the same to Cherry mx, just in a different color. I am not talking particular zealio switches here, I am talking about all the "mx like" switches. I don't hate them, but I don't like them.

[SpAmRaY]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

Cherry mx?

This has been extensively discussed already, MX patent is expired, so now we have similar switches made by some manufacturers. A fake is something that claims to be another thing, nobody has said that a Gateron is the same than an MX; furthermore, this particular combination is not made by Cherry, meaning the spring and stem.

I am sorry, I should not use the word fake, I don't know what word should I use since english is not my native language. To me, the housing, the stem all look the same to Cherry mx, just in a different color. I am not talking particular zealio switches here, I am talking about all the "mx like" switches. I don't hate them, but I don't like them.

I think you are looking for the word clone, although many months ago the forum staff said we were supposed to refer to them as 'mx-compatible' switches  )

[E3E]

There are a ton of clones out there. I can understand why there is appreciation for the originals, and why the derivatives obviously seem less inspired. On the other hand, designs that deviate and TRY to bring something new like that Omron Romer-G switch are typically panned. Not saying it's without good reason, but yeah.

A lot of people are getting fed up with Cherry due to their inability to meet production demands and the scratchiness of their switches (which is apparently due to worn molds or a change in plastic, or just the fact that older switches are more worn down and feel smoother).

[jonathanyu]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

Fake? There is nothing similar to these switches; how could they be fake? What are their "original" counterparts?

Cherry mx?

This has been extensively discussed already, MX patent is expired, so now we have similar switches made by some manufacturers. A fake is something that claims to be another thing, nobody has said that a Gateron is the same than an MX; furthermore, this particular combination is not made by Cherry, meaning the spring and stem.

I am sorry, I should not use the word fake, I don't know what word should I use since english is not my native language. To me, the housing, the stem all look the same to Cherry mx, just in a different color. I am not talking particular zealio switches here, I am talking about all the "mx like" switches. I don't hate them, but I don't like them.

I think you are looking for the word clone, although many months ago the forum staff said we were supposed to refer to them as 'mx-compatible' switches  )

Right, im looking for the word clone.  I still dont understand why is should be called mx-compatible but not mx-clone

[jerue]

Right, im looking for the word clone.  I still dont understand why is should be called mx-compatible but not mx-clone

I would agree, but I think Zealios are different enough that they should be called mx-compatible. I can't wait to see how the 65g stack up to my 62g lubed/stickered vintage ergo clears.


Anyways, I do not think any of MiTO's keysets have looked good. PuLSE, Sci-Fi...yea...no

[jonathanyu]

Right, im looking for the word clone.  I still dont understand why is should be called mx-compatible but not mx-clone

I would agree, but I think Zealios are different enough that they should be called mx-compatible. I can't wait to see how the 65g stack up to my 62g lubed/stickered vintage ergo clears.


Anyways, I do not think any of MiTO's keysets have looked good. PuLSE, Sci-Fi...yea...no

whats the different? color, spring? even if its feel is better than cherry mx, it doesn't change the fact they are clone. i remember when gateron or other mx-clone switches came out, people don't really like how they just copy cherry mx. and now a member in gh sell these switches and everyone see differently.

[Rayoui]

whats the different? color, spring? even if its feel is better than cherry mx, it doesn't change the fact they are clone. i remember when gateron or other mx-clone switches came out, people don't really like how they just copy cherry mx. and now a member in gh sell these switches and everyone see differently.

Perhaps this may shed some light.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74836.0

[E3E]

The way I see it, sentiments for Zeal's awesome spearheading and fantastic work in the community aside, Zealio switches are fine-tuned Gaterons. Gaterons are MX clones. It is not an enitrely new design, it's simply a tweaked design stemming from community and personal feedback on what the ideal MX / ergo clear switch should feel like.

[ideus]

Right, im looking for the word clone.  I still dont understand why is should be called mx-compatible but not mx-clone

I would agree, but I think Zealios are different enough that they should be called mx-compatible. I can't wait to see how the 65g stack up to my 62g lubed/stickered vintage ergo clears.


Anyways, I do not think any of MiTO's keysets have looked good. PuLSE, Sci-Fi...yea...no

whats the different? color, spring? even if its feel is better than cherry mx, it doesn't change the fact they are clone. i remember when gateron or other mx-clone switches came out, people don't really like how they just copy cherry mx. and now a member in gh sell these switches and everyone see differently.

The stem color is intended to differentiate between MX switch designs; but, if you are not aware of this it is futile to try to discuss the value of a new stem, spring combination.

[livingspeedbump]

sorry zeal, but I don't like zealio switches.

What don't you like about them?

I dont like fake stuff.

There are a lot of valid reasons not to like a switch, but the way I see it, that is not one of them.

Fake is simply not the correct word here. It is technically an MX Compatible switch. Zeals macro photos clearly show how much more refined the Zealios are as well (this is true of Gaterons in general though). Having so many companies competing with switches is a fantastic thing for us, the consumers. If Cherry won't take care of their molds, falls behind schedule with switches, etc, we should all want a competitor waiting to show what they can do. In my opinion, Gateron stands miles ahead of all of the other competitors (Kailh, Greetech, Outemu, etc) as a superior switch. Sure, longevity isn't proven yet like Cherry (which i don't see being an issue), but the switches are just so much smoother.

If you don't like "fake" stuff, why did you buy Zealios in the first place? If you didn't buy them does that mean you are talking about a switch you've never tried? Really, the logic behind not liking the switch is just off to me, and you are really the only one missing out here. Sure, you may not like them because they are too smooth, the tactile bump is different than what you are used to, you don't like clear housings, etc.

[njbair]

And I never see you posting in Making Stuff Together johnathanyu. Easily the best forum on Geekhack which talks about keyboards all the time. I've often thought how great it would be if only that sub-forum and Keyboards existed. Maybe media too. Classifieds and GBs could get nuked. I'm ok with that.

I need to make it a discipline to post there more often. I do a lot of dumb little tweaks, mods, etc. and never take any photos or post about them. I get this idea that I have to hurry through the project rather than take time and enjoy it.

[E3E]

And I never see you posting in Making Stuff Together johnathanyu. Easily the best forum on Geekhack which talks about keyboards all the time. I've often thought how great it would be if only that sub-forum and Keyboards existed. Maybe media too. Classifieds and GBs could get nuked. I'm ok with that.

I need to make it a discipline to post there more often. I do a lot of dumb little tweaks, mods, etc. and never take any photos or post about them. I get this idea that I have to hurry through the project rather than take time and enjoy it.

I'd love to see them as well, man. I definitely remember that flame polishing mod idea you had for smoothing out MX switches as well as the IC for the Skidata style 60% case. I wonder what else you've got going on. 

[dr_habu]

typing in the dark for those who aren't perfect touch typists?

I've heard the dark room argument many times and I think that it's complete balderdash.
There are no perfect touch typists, but that's besides the point. Even in the darkest room you will always have at least one source of light strong enough to let you read the legends off your key caps. That source of light is your computer screen.

[Snowdog993]

typing in the dark for those who aren't perfect touch typists?

I've heard the dark room argument many times and I think that it's complete balderdash.
There are no perfect touch typists, but that's besides the point. Even in the darkest room you will always have at least one source of light strong enough to let you read the legends off your key caps. That source of light is your computer screen.

I am using my Model M in front of my computer screen and have no trouble at all, but, I do touch type.  If I look at the legends, I can see them plain and clear.  I think it's the "coolness" of having glowing legends in the dark.  I guess it would be a bit distracting to me too.
Underlit or glowing under the keys themselves?  Glowing bezel?  Uh, I don't think that would be very practical.  I guess that would be a bling-thing.  Not for me.

[njbair]

If I could get backlighting on a Model M I would do it in a heartbeat.

[Snowdog993]

If I could get backlighting on a Model M I would do it in a heartbeat.

I suppose you could try those LED ribbon things?

[njbair]

If I could get backlighting on a Model M I would do it in a heartbeat.

I suppose you could try those LED ribbon things?

I've thought about making an underlay out of an electroluminescent panel. But those things just draw way too much power.

[Snowdog993]

If I could get backlighting on a Model M I would do it in a heartbeat.

I suppose you could try those LED ribbon things?

I've thought about making an underlay out of an electroluminescent panel. But those things just draw way too much power.

http://www.adafruit.com/products/1376?gclid=Cj0KEQjwtaexBRCohZOAoOPL88oBEiQAr96eSIVgBiB5au6sM2zC2yp8tLicAiELieQ2GyikDrQk_RAaAsGn8P8HAQ

[livingspeedbump]

The way artisan makers are kind of treated as celebrity figures/gods in the community is somewhat vexing at times.

I mean only some of them are, and that bothers me more personally. I think Binge's caps are freaking amazing, and I'm not demeaning his in any way, but there are other artisan makers who are making equally cool things that don't really get the God status that Binge does. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't deserve it, as I said, his work is amazing.

I've always thought Binge was under-appreciated.  The dude basically (literally) wrote the book on casting at home, and so many have learned from him.  Maybe I'm just not seeing all the comments you're referring to though. 

Ok, I'm going to be pedantic only because I feel overlooked and there's history that came before me and inspired me to try and share my methods and how to cast at home.

Ishtob is the first one that I know of that addressed casting at home.  AFAIK, after that it was Matt3o who did a little something.

After both of those, I did my first guide.  I started to keep track of other experiments and publicly discussed and shared my methods.  After that, Binge wrote up his guide.

So this is curious, and you may enjoy it.

I had a few bands crash at my house the other night after a show. Artsy types, naturally. They saw my little box of caps (thought it was hilarious people actually made keycaps, and more hilarious people would pay 10-20 bucks for them haha) but were much, much more drawn to the Dolly and Booper's caps than the Bros, Kraps, etc I have lying around as well. I explained that for whatever reason the V2's and Clacks were more sought after and when asked "Why?" I had no answer. (Showed pics of Hipsters stuff, they dug those quite a bit as well). From an artist's perspective, I think their fresh look was something the community could use sometimes instead of just going with the flow of the hype. I agreed with them though, your caps are much more interesting than "the rock-em sock-em robots" haha.

[nubbinator]

I think the x is more interesting than y argument is a weird one.  Taste is subjective and everyone has different things that they like.  I love my little Dolly caps that I make, but I don't think they have any more real artistic merit over others out there outside of copycaps. I always love to hear that people love what I make, but sometimes you need a more subtle accent and other times something more dramatic is perfect.  I really have a lot of respect for Clack, Punks, Bro, Binge, and Booper since they seem to really enjoy the craft and try hard to keep it art and make sure that they put the art first while striving for something high quality.  I know I've come a long way in what I've done, but I've still got a long way to go and I'll keep striving for that as long as I have fun doing so.

The one thing I think most could agree on is that the artisan explosion has gotten a bit absurd, especially since you see people not vested in the community trying to make a buck or first sale caps that are still rough going for $20+ shipping on up.  I love that Bro really has been striving to keep his stuff affordable and that's something I aspire to maintain as well.  And Clack definitely deserves to charge more since so many people are immediately flipping caps for profit.  Why shouldn't he get a portion of that?

[HoffmanMyster]

typing in the dark for those who aren't perfect touch typists?

I've heard the dark room argument many times and I think that it's complete balderdash.
There are no perfect touch typists, but that's besides the point. Even in the darkest room you will always have at least one source of light strong enough to let you read the legends off your key caps. That source of light is your computer screen.

You don't know my lighting situation.

I won't claim that I need backlighting for viewing legends (I just don't do it, it could be a legitimate reason), but it is indeed hard to read legends in the dark in my room. Takes a fair amount of time for my eyes to adjust to the dark to see the legends.

[calvinhousecat]

I think the x is more interesting than y argument is a weird one.  Taste is subjective and everyone has different things that they like.  I love my little Dolly caps that I make, but I don't think they have any more real artistic merit over others out there outside of copycaps. I always love to hear that people love what I make, but sometimes you need a more subtle accent and other times something more dramatic is perfect.  I really have a lot of respect for Clack, Punks, Bro, Binge, and Booper since they seem to really enjoy the craft and try hard to keep it art and make sure that they put the art first while striving for something high quality.  I know I've come a long way in what I've done, but I've still got a long way to go and I'll keep striving for that as long as I have fun doing so.

The one thing I think most could agree on is that the artisan explosion has gotten a bit absurd, especially since you see people not vested in the community trying to make a buck or first sale caps that are still rough going for $20+ shipping on up.  I love that Bro really has been striving to keep his stuff affordable and that's something I aspire to maintain as well.  And Clack definitely deserves to charge more since so many people are immediately flipping caps for profit.  Why shouldn't he get a portion of that?

I feel like Kreytone fits this description too